the aztec ufo incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/scott ramsey, suzanne ramsey,...

189

Upload: dokhue

Post on 15-Feb-2019

262 views

Category:

Documents


18 download

TRANSCRIPT

Page 1: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up
Page 2: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

TheAztecUFOIncident

TheCase,Evidence,andElaborateCover-upofOneoftheMostPerplexingCrashesinHistory

BySCOTTRAMSEY,SUZANNERAMSEY,andFRANKTHAYER,PHD

PrefacebyStantonFriedman

Page 3: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Copyright©2016byScottRamsey,SuzanneRamsey,andFrankThayer

AllrightsreservedunderthePan-AmericanandInternationalCopyrightConventions.Thisbookmaynotbereproduced,inwholeorinpart,inanyformorbyanymeanselectronicormechanical,includingphotocopying,recording,orbyanyinformationstorageandretrievalsystemnowknownorhereafter

invented,withoutwrittenpermissionfromthepublisher,TheCareerPress.

THEAZTECUFOINCIDENTEDITEDBYJODIBRANDONTYPESETBYEILEENMUNSON

CoverdesignbyIanShimkoviak/thebookdesignersPrintedintheU.S.A.

Toorderthistitle,pleasecalltoll-free1-800-CAREER-1(NJandCanada:201-848-0310)toorderusingVISAorMasterCard,orforfurtherinformationonbooksfromCareerPress.

TheCareerPress,Inc.12ParishDriveWayne,NJ07470

www.careerpress.comwww.newpagebooks.com

LibraryofCongressCataloging-in-PublicationDataCIPDataAvailableUponRequest.

Page 4: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Acknowledgments

Itisnotpossibletoover-estimatethesupportandcontributionsoftheindividualswhoandinstitutionsthatmadethisbookpossible.Weofferoursincerethankstoallofthosewhoencouragedusandwhosuppliedcriticalinformation.Welisttheorganizationsfirst,followedbyapartiallistofwhodeserveourthanks.WeparticularlycommendtothereadertheworksofFrankScully,ChrisEvans,RichOgden,andWilliamSteinmanwhilewecommendthescientistswhoworkedonthisproject.WesalutethehonestyandcourageofthewitnessestotheIncidentandeveryonewhohassharedatruestorywithus.Thankyouforhelpingtodocumentthisamazinghistoricalevent.

UnitedStatesAirForceArchives,MaxwellAirForceBaseAztecPioneerMuseumUniversityofWyoming—LaramieUniversityofMinnesota—MinneapolisWilliamS.SteinmanJ.AndrewKissnerMichaelPriceStantonFriedmanFrankWarrenEvelynBeattyBrooksMarshallDonnaChadwickLeeCraneJohnCraneDeputySheriffGaryMcDanielBethSuttleEstelleShawnaBoddyRileyChristaCaldwellMannyReynosaTobyJaquezJudyGillespieTommyBolackKariBrawleyLeahWeaverDannielleGozelskiEdandJudyCooperMarteandMaryJoYerkinsMarkFargen

Page 5: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

JamesandBerniceBowraMikeDriscollRandyDonnellyCaroleLanno

Page 6: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Contents

ForewordbyWilliamS.“Bill”Steinman

PrefacebyStantonT.Friedman

Introduction

Chapter1:EightMonthsAfterRoswell

Chapter2:BehindtheFlyingSaucers

Chapter3:RAFWelford,Newbury,Berkshire,England,1964

Chapter4:TheFarmingtonArmadaofMarch1950

Chapter5:DidCahnContheCons?

Chapter6:SilasNewton:TheManWhoKnewTooMuch

Chapter7:BirdsofaFeather“Pflock”Together

Chapter8:TheSecretKeepers

Chapter9:AztecResearchersWilliamSteinmanandChrisEvans:TheirBooksandTheirLives

Chapter10:MovingtheCraft

Chapter11:SonofaPreacherMan

Chapter12:AlphabetSoup:GeorgeKoehlerandtheAirForceBoys

Chapter13:RecentRevelationsandMysteriousVisits

Chapter14:Dr.GeeandtheMysteryMen

Chapter15:ExaminingtheEvidence

Chapter16:Conclusions

ChapterNotes

Index

AbouttheAuthors

Page 7: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

ForewordByWilliamS.“Bill”Steinman

Well,onceagain,IwasaskedtowritetheforewordtoScottandSuzanne’snewfollow-upbookontheAztecSaucercase.Asusual,theirlastbookgeneratednewandmorerevealingfactstofollowupon.

Scottcontinuestopickmybrain,whichis30-some-plusyearsremovedfrommyowninvestigation.ScottadmitsthatheisobsessivelyaddictedtotheAzteccase.Iwasonceaddicted,butwentintoyearsofrehab.

ScottandSuzanne,asusual,leftnostoneunturned,followingeachnewleadtoitsveryend.Theymustbecongratulatedfortheirveryfineeffortinsolvingthismany-facetedandmany-layeredpuzzlecalledAztec.

Myownbook,UFOCrashatAztec,justscratchedthesurface,butitdidsparkinterestinthe1948Aztecrecoveryalloveragain.IbelievethattheRamseys’investigationwillonceagainprovewithouttheshadowofdoubtthatanaircraftofunknownorigincrash-landedontherockymesa12milesnortheastofAztec,NewMexico,andwasrecoveredbyacovertteamofmilitary,scientists,andsecuritypersonnelandcartedofftoatop-secretbaseforanalysis.

Thisnewbookmayprovetobeoneofthemostimportantoneswritteninthe21stcentury.IonceagaincommendtheRamseysonajobwelldone.MaybenowScottcangetoutfromunderthe

Aztecyokeofbondageandbefreeatlasttopursuemorepleasurableendeavors.WilliamS.“Bill”Steinman

April13,2015

Page 8: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

PrefaceByStantonT.Friedman

BecauseIhavebeenlecturingandwritingaboutflyingsaucersformorethan40yearsandamtheoriginalcivilianinvestigatorofthe1947Roswellcrashedsaucerincident,IamoftenaskedaboutthesupposedAztec,NewMexico,crashedflyingsaucerrecovery.EarlyonIhadacceptedthecommonwisdomthattheAztecstorywasjustamyth.AsIgottoknowScottandSuzanneRamseyandhadaccesstotheirextraordinarywork,Ibecamemoreandmoreimpressed.Theireffortsaresplendidexamplesoftrueresearch.Asanuclearphysicistworkingonclassifiedresearchanddevelopmentprojectsformajorcompaniesfor14years,Ihadampletimetoevaluatescientificinvestigation.TheirworkmeetsallthetestsIcansuggest.Theyhavespentatrulyenormousamountoftime,money,andefforttodigoutnewwitnesses,relevantpapers,andevidence.Theyrepresenttheepitomeofpersistence,honesty,andcarefulinvestigation.TheyraisethefalseclaimsofUFOdebunkersandcarefullydemolishthem.Frankly,IwishthereweremanyUFO-relatedinvestigationsdoneascarefullyandenergetically.ThereisnoquestionthatanintelligentlycontrolledextraterrestrialspacecraftwasrecoveredbyagentsofthegovernmentoftheUnitedStatesnearAztec,NewMexico,inMarch1948,andtakenforclassifiedstudyandevaluation.Thisisafascinatingandcarefullydoneexposéwellworthreading.

StantonT.Friedmanwww.stantonfriedman.com

Page 9: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Introduction

OnacrispMarchmorninginthehighdesertofnorthwestNewMexico,agoatrancherleavesthecomfortofhishouseandwalkstowardthecorraltoletthesheepouttograze.Asheopensthegate,heisstunnedbyathunderousnoisethatdrawshisattentiontothesky.Overhead,heseesalargeobjectflutteringasifindistress.Whenitmakescontactwithanearbycliff,sparksfly.

Andsoanincrediblechainofeventsbeginthatwilldirectlyandindirectlyimpacthundredsofpeoplethroughouttheworld.

Whenpeopleaskmeaboutthetopicofourbook,Isayitisthedocumentationofanhistoricalevent.Initially,Ihesitatetousethewordsflyingsaucer,becauseitissomuchmore.Ourresearchisacompilationofworkgatheredforalmost29years.Inthattime,wehavetraveledtomorethan28states;personallyspent$500,000;andarchived55,000relateddocumentsfromsourcesincludingtheUnitedStatesArmy,UnitedStatesAirForce,FBI,andCIA,anddirectlyfromthedeskofJ.EdgarHoover.Withourcompletefocusonthefacts,ourmotiveisclear.Weprovidetheevidence;youwillcometoyourownconclusions.

Anumberofresearchers,mediamembers,andtelevisionproducershaveencouragedustosensationalizeandspeculateonthedetailsofthisevent.Thatisnotthepaththatwehavechosen.ThepurityofthisIncidentissospectacularthatthereisnoneedtoalterorembellishit.

Therearecertaintermsthatlosetheirimpactthroughmisuseandoveruse.Conspiracyandcover-uparegoodexamples.However,inthecaseoftheAztecIncident,thesetermsarepartofafactualdescriptionandaredocumentedassuch.

Duringthisinvestigativejourney,wesharethecompellingstoryofthewitnessestoaprovedflyingsaucerlandingandrecovery,ofscientistswhoworkedonthecraft,andoftheindividualsinvolvedinthecover-upintheyearssince1948.Finally,wedocumenttheastoundingandenduringimpactoftheincidentontheirlivesandonours.

Wearededicatedtoaccuratelytellingthispowerfulstory,anditisourhonortopresentittothereader.SuzanneRamseyApril15,2015

Page 10: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

1

EightMonthsAfterRoswell

TheglowingdiscwasflyingerraticallyintheblacknessofpredawnonMarch25,1948.Cuba,NewMexico,policeofficerManuelSandovalhadseenflyingsaucersbeforeintheskiesoftheFourCorners,butthisonewasnothoveringordartingacrossthesky,ashehadbecomeaccustomedto.Itwasobviouslyintrouble,wobblingasitheadednorthwesttowardFarmingtonandAztec.SandovalhadalreadyputinafulldayworkingsecurityfortheSouthernUnionGaspipeline,wherehewasresponsibleforkeepingthepipelinefrombeingtamperedwith.Hispart-timeshiftwithCubatookhimdeepintothenightontheemptyhighway.

TheLawEnforcementWitnessesAshestartedhisshift,Sandovalwonderedwhatthenightwouldbring.ForseveralweeksOfficer

SandovalandNewMexicoHighwayPatrolOfficerAndyAndrewshadobservedflyingsaucers,onnumerousoccasions,astheytraveledtheNewMexicohighwaysandbyways.

Forhispart,AndyAndrewspatrolledfromFarmington,NewMexico,southtothepumpingstationtownofLybrook.Andrewswouldsometimestraveltheextra38milestoCuba,wherehewouldbreakthelonelinessbymeetingSandovalatacaféforabitetoeatorsomecoffeeandpie.

Thisparticularnight,astheshiftneareditsend,Sandovalspottedalargeflyingdiscthatseemedtobeintrouble.WhathewaslookingatthatnightwasnotdisplayingthehoveringcapabilityorthegreatspeedsandagilityheandAndrewshadobservedonothernights.Thiscraftappearedasthoughitwastryingtomakealanding.AsSandovaldescribedovertheyearstohisclosefriends,itwas“wobblyandseemedtobeflutteringasaleaf.”1Thecraftwasflyingverylow,barelyclearingthecanyonsasSandovalfollowedthecraftheadingnorthwesttowardtheFourCorners.

Page 11: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

TheflightpathoftheAztecsaucerfromtheArchuletaranchtoHartCanyon,March25,1948.

TheRancherValentinArchuletabeganhisearly-morningroutineasusualthisparticularday.Walkingtowardthe

goatcorraltoletthegoatsouttograze,heheardwhatsoundedlikeasonicboom.Hiseyesweredrawntothewideopensky,wherehesawwhathedescribedasaflyingsaucerthatseemedtobeoutofcontrol,headingtowardamesaacrosstheroadfromhisranch.Thewobblingcraftscrapedthefaceofthemesashootingsparksuponimpact.Thesaucerremainedairborneasitheadedinanortherlydirection.

TelesforoValentinArchuleta,or“Valentin,”ashisfriendsandfamilycalledhim,wasfinallybackonhisranch,aftertheexperienceofbeingaJapaneseprisonerofwarandbeingasurvivoroftheBataanDeathMarch.

Valentinwasoneof1,816NewMexicoNationalGuardsoldiersofthe200thCoastArtilleryRegimentdeployedtothePhilippinesinSeptember1941,priortoPearlHarbor.The200thassistedtheLuzonForcewhentheJapaneseattackbeganonDecember8,1941.Approximately60,000Philippinesoldiersandthemenofthe200thwerecapturedontheBataanPeninsulainApril1942.

ThusbeganahorrificforcedmarchofthePOWs.Theywereheldunderextremeconditionsuntilliberatedin1945.Alltold,829of1,816NewMexicanmendiedgruesomedeathsfromstarvation,exhaustion,andtortureinthebattleandforcedmarch.Somewereinsuchaweakenedconditionthattheydiedimmediatelyafterrescue.NotethatthesenumbersonlyindicatethefatalitiesofthesoldiersfromNewMexico.2

ItisatestamenttohisfortitudeandcharacterthatValentinservedhiscountrysovaliantlyandsurvivedtoreturntohisfamily.Lessthanthreeyearsafterhisreturnfromsuchheroicanddecoratedmilitary

Page 12: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

service,hewitnessedtheAztecFlyingSaucer.

ValentinArchuletaandhiswife,justafterWorldWarII.

ArchuletadescribedhissightingtoresearcherWilliam“Bill”Steinmanin1982.3Ashelookedup,hesawalargedisc-shapedcraft,“wobblingasitflew,”andseeminglyoutofcontrolabout100feetabovetheground.Theobjectdidstrikeanearbymesashoweringsparksastheobjectcontinuednorthandlosingaltitudeasitflew.

Valentinquicklyheadedtotheonlynearbytelephone,whichwasattheBlancoMercantile,ageneralstorenearhisranch.Localcustomershadaccesstothephone24hoursadaythroughadooratthestorethatwasalwaysunlocked.Althoughittooktwoorthreeattempts,hefinallygotthroughtoKirtlandAirForceBaseinAlbuquerque.Onoraboutthethirdcall,someonefromthebaseansweredwhoactuallyshowedaninterest.AfterValentingotthrough,heexplainedthathehadjustseenoneofthoseflyingsaucersthattheAirForcewassointerestedin.TheAirForcepersonattheotherendofthelineaskedhimwherethecraftwasheading,andArchuletainformedhimitwasheaded“towardHartCanyon,”meaningnorth-northwestofhisranch.ValentinrequestedthattheAirForcecallhimbacktoexplainwhatwashappening,butdespitetheirpromise,theAirForcenevercontactedhimagain.Valentinsharedthisstoryovertheyears,butonlytoaselectfew.

Page 13: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

ScarfromthesaucerimpactonabluffneartheArchuletaranch,Blanco,NewMexico.

ThemesaasdescribedbyArchuletaisoneofmanythatsurroundtheranch.InMarch2015,Archuleta’sgranddaughterChrista,Suzanne,andI(Scott)decidedtogotothetopofthemesatoseeiftheycouldfindanytracesofcontactonthehardvolcanicrockandsandstone.Afteranhourorsodrivinguptheoilfieldroadswemadeittothetop.Awalkofabout1/2miletotheareadescribedbyArchuletaindeedfoundusoverlookingtheranch.Afterclimbingdownthefaceofthemesa,theycouldclearlyseeanareathatseemedtohavemechanicalmarksonthefaceoftherock.Thesemarksaremanyfeetupfromthebase,andthereisnorealexplanationastohowtheygotthereorwhytheyarethere.Themesaiscomprisedofbothsandstoneatthesouthendandvolcanicrockasthemesaformedtothenorth.Itisunlikelythatsparkswouldbecreatedbyhittingthesoftsandstone,buttheareawherethecrafthitthetopofthemesaishardvolcanicrock.Christaandotherfamilymembersarecertainthatnobodyovertheyearshasbeentothissite,astheywouldrequirepermissionfromthefamilytogainaccesstothemesa.

TheOilFieldWorkersDougNoland,a19-year-oldworkingfortheElPasoOilCompany,wasonhiswaypredawntopick

uphissupervisorandfellowemployee,BillFerguson,sotheycouldproceedtoworkintheoilfieldssouthofAztec,NewMexico.AtthetimeDougpulleduptoBillFerguson’shouse,thereisnowaythattheycouldhaveimagedwhattheirdaywouldhold.

Page 14: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

DougNoland(right)withrenownedpilotJohnLearin1995.

Bothoftheirliveswereabouttochangesignificantly.BilltoldDougthatabrushfirehadbeenreportedoutonHartCanyonRoad,about12milesnortheastofAztec.Therewereconcernsthatitmightbeburningnearoneofthecompany’sdriptanksandtheyneededtogetoutthere—fast.Theday’sworkplansfortheprojectsouthofAztecwouldhavetowaitafewhours.

OildriptanksatthebaseofHartCanyonMesain1948.

ThedriptankssatatthebaseofamesanearwhatoilfieldworkerscalledtheArkansaslooponHartCanyonRoad.Newsofafirenearthetankswasnotwhatoilfieldworkerswantedtohear,consideringtheamountofoilstoredinmorethanadozentanks.DougandBillhurriedouttothedriptanks,onlytobe

Page 15: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

metbyanumberofotheroilfieldworkerswhohadarrivedearliertoinvestigate.Thebrushfireappearedtobecontainedonthetopofthemesa,notnearthetanksatthesideoftheroadbelowthebluff.TheotherworkersgreetedDougandBillandquicklytoldthemthatthestoragetankswerenotindangerofthebrushfirebutsomethingstrangewassittingontopofthehill.AuniquefeatureofhillsintheSouthwestaretheflattenedtopsthatledearlySpanishexplorerstonamethem“mesas”(meaning“tables”inEnglish).SouthwestresidentsnormallyusetheSpanishwordwhenreferringtosuchhills.

Thetwoworkersquicklyclamberedtothetopofthemesatoseewhattheotherworkersweretalkingabout.“Thecraftwasextremelylarge,”Dougrecalled.4I(Scott)interviewedhiminAugust2003athishomeinLasVegas,Nevada,whilehewasstillrecoveringfromaseriesofstrokes.Hehadtoldthestoryovertheyearstoselectpeople,butthenhesaidhewanteditontherecord.

Aneeriehazefromthebrushfireswirledaroundtheworkersintheearlydawnlightastheyreachedtheobject.Averylarge,metallic,lens-shapedcraftsatsilentlyatopthemesa.Dougexplainedthat,asthegroupofyoungmenmovedcloser,“Werealizedthecraftwassmoothwithnonoticeableseams,rivets,bolts,orweldmarks.”Hesaid,“Itlookedasthoughitwasmolded.”

DougrememberedthatheandFergusoncautiouslymovedcloserandactuallyclimbedupontopofthealmost100-footdiameterdisc.Herecalled,“Thecraftwasbrushedaluminum,lookingtobeverysmooth,butnothighlypolishedaluminumlikeyouseeonanairplane.”

Astheyclimbedaroundlookingfordoorsoranentryofsomekind,themenfound,uponcloserexamination,whatappearedtobeportholesofsometype.Dougsaid,“Thewindowsorportholeslookedlikemirrorsuntilyouwouldlookcloser;thenyoucouldseethroughthem.”Herecalledyearslater,whenmirroredsunglassesbecamepopular,theyalwaysremindedhimofthewindowsonthecraft.TheotheroilfieldworkerswerejustascuriousasDougandBill,andthey,too,wereclimbingalloverthecraft.

“Oneofthewindowsorportholeswasbusted,”Dougsaid.“Theholewasthesizeofaquarter;nobigger,asIrecall.Itwasaholeinthewindowthesizeofadamnquarter.”AsDougandBilllookedthroughthewindow,theysawtwosmallbodies“slumpedoverwhatappearedtobeacontrolpanelofsorts.”Dougremembered,“Thesunwascomingupbythistime,butwecouldplainlyseetwobodies.”

Soon,otherswerearrivingatthemesa.LocalranchersMr.andMrs.Knight,whorancattlenearthemesa,arrivedintheirpickuptrucktoseewhatthecommotionwasabout.Theyparkedwiththeothervehiclesandwalkedupthehillandtothecraft,thenquicklyadvisedtheyoungmentomoveawayfromit.Dougsaid,“AquicklecturewastakingplacefromtheKnightsaboutgettingnearthedamnthingwhenweheardasoundthatwasverystrangetous.”Itwasahelicoptercirclingthemesa.Dougsaidthisseemedalmostasunbelievabletohimaswasthemetallicdisc.“Ihadneverseenahelicopterbeforeinmylife.”

InMarch1948,theprimarymilitaryhelicoptersweretheSikorskyH-5seriesandtheBellH-13.Theseweresmallandlightmachinescarryingonlytwoorthreepeople.Theywerelimitedinspeedandrange.ToseeahelicopterinthedesolateareaofHartCanyon,letaloneanywhereelseinthelate1940s,wouldbehighlyunusual.Theobjectonthemesathatmorningmusthavebeenofgreatimportanceforthisrelativelynewandraremilitaryaircrafttohavebeendispatched.

WhenI(Scott)interviewedDoug,herecalledthat,aftertheKnightsarrived,alawenforcementofficershowedupandactedasthoughhedidnotknowanyoneonthemesa.Dougapproachedtheyoungofficerandasked,“Whatshouldwedo?”Theyoungofficer,whomwehavesinceidentifiedasManuelSandoval,explainedthathewasfromthetownofCuba,NewMexico,andthathehadfollowedthelowflyingdisc-shapedcraftinanortherlydirectionduringtheearlymorninghours.HetoldDougthatitfinallyledhimtotheareaofHartCanyonRoad.HeexplainedtoDougthattheresidentsofthetownofCubahadreportedseveralsightingsoftheseobjectsforafewweekspriortoMarch25th.Theofficeralsosaidthathehadnoideawhattodoashehadnoticedthat,whenthecraftpassedoverCuba,itwas“wobblyandseemedtobeflutteringasaleaf.”5SandovaltoldDougthathehaddecidedtofollowthecraft,notrealizingithad

Page 16: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

comedownonthemesauntilhespottedtheoilfieldworkers’trucksparkedoutontheroad.SandovalalsotoldDougthatthecraftseemedinsomesortoftroubleandhadalmosthitamesanear

thetownofBloomfield,justsouthofAztec.ThismatchesArchuleta’sdescriptionofwhathesawaswell.AftertalkingwithDoug,theyoungpolicemanthenapproachedthecraftandalsotoldeveryonetostayawayfromituntiltheyweresureofwhatitwas.SomeoftheyoungmeninformedOfficerSandovalthattheycouldclearlyseetwobodiesinthecraftandthatthebodiesappearedtobeslumpedoverapanelofsomesort.

Aboutthattime,accordingtoDoug,evenmorepeoplestartedshowingupatthemesa.AlawenforcementofficerfromAztec,knowntosomeoftheyoungmen,showedup,aswellastwoorthreeotheryoungmen.Dougrecalled,“Nobodyknewthese(latter)guys.Idon’tthinktheywerelocals,butthatwasalongtimeago.”ThelocalofficerspokebrieflywiththeCubaofficer,andthenheannouncedthatthemilitarywasawareofthecraftandthateverybodyshouldleavetheareaatonce.Ataboutthattime,Dougsaid,“Thehelicopterwasleavingthearea.Ithadcircledmanytimes,anditturnedtowardthenortheastanddisappeared.Idon’tknowatthetimewhataffectedmemost:thecirclingofahelicopterorthisstrangeobjectsittingonthemesa.”

IaskedDougwhathisinitialthoughtswereastotheoriginofthecraft.Heresponded,“Hell,thisisNewMexicoyou’redealingwith—notellingwhereorwhatthisthingis.Wethoughtsincethehelicoptershowedup,itwasoneofours.ThewarhadmadeNewMexicoatraininggroundforallkindsofstuffbackthen.”

Dougalsoremembered:

[B]ythetimethelocallawenforcementofficershowedup,Bill,whowasignoringtheorderstostayawayfromthecraft,wastryingtopokearoundthecraftwithafirepoleorsomethinghepulledoffofoneofthetrucks.Soonhehitsomedamnthing,andadoororwalkwayappeared.Someofushadtolookinsideandseewhatthehellelsewasinthere,andifanyonewasinneedofhelp.

Dougsaidthebodies,notmovingorshowinganysignsoflife,were“charredadarkbrown.Imean,theydidnotappeartobeofdarkskin—justseemedtohavebeenexposedtoheat.”Iquestionedhimaboutthisseveraltimes,andhestucktohisstoryaboutthebodieshavingtheappearanceofbeingcharred.SomeoftheyoungworkersstucktheirheadsintothecraftandtoldDougthatthereweremorebodiesonanotherlevel.Dougdescribedthat,fromwhathecouldsee,theinteriorofthecraftwasnotburned.

Drawingfrom50yearsofmemories,Dougdescribedthecraftordiscasabout100feetacross,witharaisedsectiononthetop.Thebottomofthecraftalsohadaprotrusionthatstuckoutfrombelow.Hedescribedthecraftasbeing“averythincrosssection,onlyabout18–20feethigh,butverythinattheouteredges.”

Dougcontinuedhisdescriptionofthesaucer.Hesaidtheouteredgeofthecrafthadsomestrange“goldcolorrings—three,ifIremembercorrectly—thatranaroundtheentireouteredgeofthedisc.”

InDoug’smemory,itwaslatemorningwhen“themilitarydidshowup,andshowuptheydid—inaverybigway.Wenevereventhoughtaboutleavingthemesa,regardlessofwhatthelocallawenforcementofficerwastellingus.Thisthing,thisevent,wastoobig—toobigtowalkawayfrom.”

Ashereturnedtorememberingtheotherpeopleonthemesathatday,Dougcouldrecallmostofthem,butafewhewasnotfamiliarwith.“Thereweretwoorpossiblythreeyoungguysaboutouragethatstoodawayfromusatthewesternsideofthemesa.Theygotnearthecraftatfirst,butkepttheirdistanceafterawhile.It’snotmypoormemory;Ineverknewwhotheseguyswereorwhereinthehelltheycamefrom.”

Asforthelocallawenforcementofficer,Dougsaid,“IthinkbackthenIknewwhohewas,butnot

Page 17: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

afterwhatI’vebeenthrough.”HereDougwasreferringtothestrokeshehadrecentlysuffered.Dougsaidhecouldnotrememberthelocalpoliceofficer’snameexcepttosaythatthemanwaslocalandthattheotherguysknewhimaswell.DougwaslivinginMancos,Colorado,atthetimeandwasfamiliarwithalltheAztecpeople,aswellascountylawenforcement,beingthatthetownisalsotheSanJuanCountyseat.

Themilitarywasforcefulinassemblingeveryonepresentatthesceneandquicklydividingthemupforinterviews.Theyaskedeveryone’snameandaddress,withwhomtheywereemployed,andwhytheywereonHartCanyonRoadinthefirstplace.

Duringmyinterview,IaskedDougwhatbranchofthemilitaryshowedup.Hisresponsewas:“Iamstillnotcertaintothisdaywhatbranchtheywerefrom.Idon’trecalleverseeinganythingthattoldmeifitwasArmyorthenewAirForce.AllIknowwastheyweren’treallyyoungguys—theyseemedolderandcertainlywereverywelltrainedasfarasgettingthereandtakingoverinaveryassertivemanner.Theydidnottakekindlythatwewerethere.”6

Dougcontinued:

ThevehiclestheywereinlookedlikeArmy,butyouaretestingmymemorywiththat.ThethingthatamazedmeandFergie[BillFerguson]washowfasttheygottowherewewere.Nowthinkaboutthis:Weareinaverydesolateareaofthecountry,andtheyshowupinwhatseemedlikeonlyafewhours,butreallyitwasclosertolatemorning…butstill,wheredidtheycomefromandhowdidtheygettheresofast?BillandIknewthatpartofthecountryprettydamnwell.7

Dougremindedmethattheywereveryyoungthen,butheseemedimpressed50yearslater:“Tohavethatmanypeopleshowup(atthemesa)inthesamemorningwassomethingthatFergieandItalkedaboutforyears.That’swhyatfirstwhenwesawthehelicopter,butbeforewerealizedthebodies,andeverythingsankin.Wethought,‘Hell,it’soneofours.’”IaskedDougwhathemeantby“realizedthebodies,”andheexplained,“Thebodieswereprettysmall…afterwerealizedwhatwewerelookingat—notafullygrownpersonsize,butsmaller—maybelikeachild.”

IaskedDougifitwouldbefairtosaytheobject,craft,disc,whateverhewasdescribingtome,lookedasthoughithadcrashed,andhesaidemphatically,“No—thatwouldnotbeagoodoraccuratedescription.Icouldseenodamagetothecraftatall.Itwaslyingatanangleasthoughitwaslyingonthegroundwithnosupport,butithadabubbleorreversedomeonthebottomthatwasgivingitsupport”[DougNoland’semphasis].Itwaslyingasthoughitneededsupportoralandinggear;pictureadomeonthebottomofaFrisbee®thatcouldnotlieflat—thatkindofthing.Dougcontinued,“But,gettingbacktoyourquestion:No,therewasnodamage;Iwouldrememberthat.Thetreesaroundthemesahadbeenroughedupabitandsomewereworseforwear.Thecrafthadplowedintothemesaandthatmesaismostlysiltandrockwithsometreesbrokenoffandsandandrocksscatteredaround,butthecraftwasnotdamaged.”

IthengottothemilitaryangleandaskedDougexactlywhatthemilitaryaskedortoldhim.Herepliedclearly:

TheytoldmethiseventwasextremelyimportanttotheUnitedStatesofAmerica—thatwewereresponsibleforournationalsecurity,andthatwewillnevertalktoanyoneaboutthisevent.Everyone,withmaybetheexceptionofMr.andMrs.Knight,weretalkedtoinprivate.Imean,weweren’ttalkedtoinagroup—justkindofone-on-one.Theyweren’tkiddingaround.Theywereveryseriousandnotveryfriendly.IcanonlyspeakformyselfandwhatFergietoldmelater,butwewerethreatenedwithourlivesifweeverspokeaboutthis[DougNoland’semphasis].

IthenaskedDougwhethertheyofferedhimanexplanationforwhattheywitnessed,andDoug’s

Page 18: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

responsewas:“Wedidnotseeanything,accordingtothem.Nothingwasthere.Weweren’tthere.[You]seewhattheyweretellingus?”

BillFergusondiedlongbeforewegotinvolvedwithourresearchintotheAztecIncident.IwouldlovetohaveinterviewedBillaswell,butastimewentonwewereabletointerviewotherswhoclaimtheywereoutonHartCanyonRoadinMarch1948,foraneventthatchangedtheirlives.

TheKenFarleyStoryRandyBarnes,adearfriendofours,discoveredtheleadtoKenFarley,andsoRandyandI(Scott)

decidedtomeetwithKen,northofPhoenixin1999,whereKenwasretiredanddyingofarespiratorydisease.HewantedhisAztecstoryontherecordaswell.8

FarleywasvisitinghisauntinDurango,Colorado,northofAztec,andwasdrivingtothesmalltownofCedarHill,NewMexico,onthemorningofMarch25,1948,wherehepickedupafriend.TheyplannedadrivetoSanDiegotoseesomeCaliforniafriends.Ken’sfriendtoldKentherewasalotofactivityjustsouthoftheirpick-uppointnearanolddirtroad,andhesuggestedtoKentheyshouldinvestigate.Withnorealschedulelimitations,thetwodecidedtheyshouldseewhatwasgoingon.

Kentoldme(Scott)thatheandhisfrienddecidedtotaketimetodetourfromtheirSanDiegodestinationinordertoinvestigatewhatmightbegoingonatwhatturnedouttobeHartCanyonRoad.ThefriendhadtoldKenthattherehadbeensomevehicles,includingapolicecar,goinginthatdirectionandthatsomeonepossiblyneededhelp.

Duringourinterview,Kentoldthefollowingstory:

Wearrivedatamesaoutabout10milesorsofromthemainroad.Wefollowedthedustanddirtcloudsthattheothercarsandtrucksweremaking.Oncewegotthere,wewalkedoutonthemesatoseewhatwasgoingon.Wemovedtowardthewesternsideofthemesaandsawahugeobjectlyingonthegroundwithpeoplewalkingallaroundit.Itseemedthatmostofthepeoplewereoilfieldworkersfromtheirdress,andIbelievetherewasanoldercouplethatwaskeepingtheirdistancefromtheobject.

IaskedKentodescribewhathesawandhisreplywas,“[Wesaw]alargedisc-shapedobject,aluminumincolor,butnotreallyveryshiny—sortofdullaluminum.Icouldnotseeanystructureasfarasdoorsorwindows;theentirecraftwasverysmooth.”Hecontinuedbysayingthat“thecraftdidnotappeartohaveanydamage,butlayonthemesaatafunnyangleandsortofrestedonitsbelly.”IaskedKenwhathemeantbyhowthediscwaslying.Hesaid,“ThedischadabubbleorprotrusiononthebottomfromwhatIcanremember—alsooneonthetopofthecraft.Itsortofremindedmeoftwopiepanswithabubbleforatopandbottom.Thetopbubblewaslargerthanthebottom.Thecraftwaslyingatanangle,maybe12degreesorso.”

Kensaidthatbothheandhisfriendwereincompleteshock.“Westoodoutontheedgeofthemesaafterafewminutes—after,weexamineditupclose.Finallyoneofthetwopoliceofficerswalkeduptousandtoldusthemilitaryhadbeennotifiedandthatweshouldleavetheareaatonce.”Kensaidheandhisfriendrefusedtoleave.“Nobodyelseseemedtobelisteningtotheofficer,sowejustnoddedourheadsandwalkedaway.”

Kendescribedwhattheothersweredoing.“Someofthe[oilfield]workerswereclimbingalloverthedamnthing,whichwasabsolutelystupid.Someoldercoupletherestartedyellingatthemtogetthehellawayfromit.Nobodywaspayingattentiontoanyone,nottheolderfolks,notthetwopoliceofficers.”AccordingtoKen,itwaslaterinthemorningthat“themilitary,orsomeformofmilitary,showedup.Theyseemedreallyupsetthatthereweresomanypeoplestandingaround,see;morepeoplehadshowed

Page 19: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

upbythen,morethanjusttheoilfieldworkers.”IaskedKenwherehethoughtthisobjecthadcomefrom.HisreplywasverysimilartowhatDoug

Nolandhadtoldme:

AtfirstIthoughtitwasahugeaircraft,especiallywhenwewerewalkinguptoit.Ithought,“Whatahellofaplacetomakeanemergencylanding.”Aswegotcloser,Irealizedthatthiswasnotaplane—well,notaplaneI’deverseen.Wewalkedupwhenwefirstgotthereandthey[oilfieldworkers]wererunningallovertheplace.Sortofpanicwitheveryone.Idon’tknowhowlongtheyhadbeentherebeforeus,butassumingweweren’tthatfarbehind,Ican’tbelievetheyhadallbeentherethatlong.Anyway,youaskedmewhereitcamefrom—Hell,Idon’tknow;afterwelookedatthethingforawhile,itbecameclearwehadneverseenanythinglikeitbefore.

RancherBensonLeeperandPoliceOfficerWrightMcEwenThepoundingonthedoorwokeBensonandhiswife,Ruby,outofasoundsleep.Twomeninacar:

OnewasWrightMcEwen,alocallawenforcementofficer,andtheotherwaseitheraformerSanJuancountycommissioneroranewlyelectedone,asRubyrecalledwhenshetoldthisstorytotheLeeperranchhandsometimebeforeshediedonOctober31,2011.9ThetwomenattheLeeperfrontdoorexplainedtoBensontheyneededhimtoguidethemouttoHartCanyon,astheythoughtanaircraftofsometypehadjustgonedown.Bensonknewtheareawell,beingarancherintheareaformorethan20years.BensonthrewonhisclothesandtoldRubyhewouldreturnoncetheemergencywasover.ThethreequicklydepartedforanhistoricalinterventioninHartCanyon.(SeeChapter13formoreaboutBensonLeeperandValentinArchuleta.)

SolonBrown:ThePreacherManBaptistpreacherSolonBrownwasleavingtheAztecareaonthemorningofMarch25,1948,onhis

waybacktohischurchatMancos.Brown’sstorywasrelatedtomebythesonofoneofBrown’schurchmembersmanyyearslater.10

BrownhadabusydayplannedbackinMancos,justwestofDurango,wherehehadjusthelpedreopentheMancosBaptistChurch.Hewasthenewpreacher,andhehadalottodoingettingthechurchbackinorder.Aseventsturnedthatday,hislifewaschanged.HeleftAztec,headingtoMancos,anditwaspossiblythesamecommotiondrawingKenFarleyandhisfriendtotheentranceofHartCanyonRoadthatattractedthepreacher’sattention.Arrivingatthemesa,ontheoffchancethathecouldbeofassistance,hewalkeduponthemesa,wherethesmellofsmokestilllingered.Hewenttohelpwhathethoughtwereinjuredpeople;however,hesawrightawaythatthesewere“littlepeople,”ashewouldtellcertainparishionerslaterthatdaywhenhegotbacktoMancos.

ShortlyafterreturningtoMancosthatevening,avisiblyshakenSolonBrowncalledseveralmembersoftheChurchforanemergencymeetingatthehomeofchurchdeaconBruceSayre.Onceallthespeciallyselectedchurchmembersweregathered,heexplainedtothemtheamazingeventsthatchangedhislife.HedescribedhowheleftAztecearlyinthemorningandsawvehiclesheadingouteastofthemainroad.Hedecidedtoseewhatwasgoingonoutthere“becauseitseemedlikealotofvehicles,andapolicecarwasinthemix.”Onceatthemesa,hedescribedalargecraft,discshapedandlyingatanangle,withsomepeoplemillingaroundit.Hequicklyranoutonthemesatoseeifhecouldbeofanyassistance.Sadly,hesaid,thelittlebodieshadpassedon,astheyseemedtohavebeenburned;however,thecraftwasstillintact,inhisopinion.Heandafewotherssaidaprayerforthelostlivesofthesesmall,child-likebodies.

Accordingtothestory,Brownwasveryemotionalatthatpoint,whensomeoneinthegroupofpeople

Page 20: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

gatheredatthechurchapparentlyclearedhisthroat,andSolonjumpedtohisfeet,almostshouting,“Youdon’tbelievemedoyou,Sayre?”DeaconBruceSayreresponded,“Solon,ofcourseIbelieveyou;I’mjustsittinghereinshock.”

SayrewasamemberoftheMancosBaptistChurch,andhisyoungsonWaltwaspresentintheirhomethateveningaswell;itwasWaltwhotoldusthestory.ThedetailsofthisarepresentedinChapter11.AsWaltrelatedit,Solontoldthemthat,aftersometimehadpassed,themilitaryshowedupasifoutofnowhereandtalkedwitheachpersonindividually.Themilitarytoldhimnevertotellanyoneaboutthisincident—never.Brownwastoldthatitwasamatterofnationalsecurityandthat“ournationalsafetyandsecuritywasatstake.”Brownneverwentintoanydetailastohowmanybodieswerepresentfromthecraft,buttheincidentchangedhislife.

ApproximatelytwoweeksaftertheRemoval…

TheFredReedStoryFredReedworkedfortheOSS(OfficeofStrategicServices)backintheearly1940s,andhewas

workingforthemilitaryin1999whenI(Scott)spokewithhim.OnedayinApril1948histeamwasdispatchedfora“crashclean-up”asFreddescribedittomeyearslater.Fredandhisfellowworkersweretoldofacrashsitethatneededtobesurveyedand“cleanedup”usingtechniquesthatFred’sgrouphadbeentrainedtoemploy.11

Fredsaid,“Weweredispatchedtoaircraftcrashsitesfromtimetotime,especiallywhentheywereeitherprototypeaircraftofsomethingsecret,whichinNewMexicowasnotuncommon.”Fredcontinued,“AfterWorldWarII,NewMexicowastheprovinggroundformanyaircrafttypes:jets,bombers,capturedGerman(Messerschmitt)262jets,V-2rockets.Yougettheidea.Whenyouareflyingthesethingsattheirlimit,ordoingthingswithexperimentalplanesforthefirsttime,thingshappen;that’swherewecamein—cleanitup,makeitlookasthoughnothingeverhappened.”Hemadeitclearthat“intheareanortheastofAztec,somethingbighadbeenremoved.ThatIcantellyou.”

Fred’sgrouparrivedatHartCanyoninearlyApril1948.The“crashsite,”astheyweretold,had

largeequipmenttracksattheeastendofthemesa.Treeshadbeendamagedwithsometopsremovedorchoppedoff.Wewereaskedtosurveythesiteandgatheranyobjectssuchascigarettebutts,tincans,c-rationscans,whatever,andburythem18inches(deep)inthesoil.Anythingotherthanperson…peoplethings,weretobebroughttoacollectionlocationatthesite.Afterthesurveyoftheareaandthecollectionprocess,westartedtobasicallyre-landscapethearea.

WhenIaskedFredwhathemeantby“re-landscape,”heanswered,“Well,thereweresomelargetracksthatlookedlikesomethinghaddugintothesiltandrock.Weneededtosmooththatoutandreplacetreesthathadbeenknockeddown,andmakesurethearealookedliketheotherterrainnearby.Thatwasournormaljobatacrashsite.”

Frednotedthatthereappearedtobeafreshlycutroadontheeastsideofthemesa.Hetoldme,“Weneededthatroadforourequipmentaswell.Leavingaroadorpathinthatdesolateareawouldnotsendupanyrealflagsasfaraswewereconcernedbackthen.Thentherewasaconcreteslaborfooterthatwaspresent;weburieditabouttwofeetunderthesandydirt,notsureifthiswaspartofthecrashsiteornot.”Onceagainhestressed,“Thiswasaverydesolatearea.”Afteranextensivecleanupofthesite,thegroupmovedon.

Fredtoldmeheoftenwonderedwhathadcrashedatthatsite:

Page 21: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Wecleanedupalotofcrashsitesovertheyears.NeverdidIseeonewheresomethingwasn’tleftbehind.Imean,takeanairplaneforexample;youwillalwaysbeabletofindsmallpiecesofaluminum,somerivets,Plexiglas—something.Somethingisalwaysleftbehind,regardlessofhowsmallitmaybe.Wewerealwayscuriousbecauseonseveraloccasionswewouldtalkabouthowcleanthatsitewas.Wewerereallytheretocollectanypersonalitemsandre-landscape.That’sallwereallydid.See,whensomething“TopSecret”suchasanexperimentalplaneorsomethingofthatmagnitudecrashes,youdon’twanttheenemytohaveaclueastowhatitismadeof,soyoutakeeverything.Thatwasourmainjob.NewMexicowascrawlingwithSovietsbackthen;thecoldwarhadjuststarted,andwedidn’twantanyoneknowingwhattheU.S.wasworkingon.

Theteamofmenworkeddayandnightcleaningupthecrashsite;Fredcouldnotrememberexactlyhowlongtheywereinthearea.“Theyhadsoldiersstillrunningsecurityaroundthesite.Inever,orwenever,talkedtothem.Theywerestationedaroundthemesas,butyoucouldseethemnightandday.Theirjobwastokeeptheareasecurewhilewedidourwork.”

IaskedFredifhethoughtsomeonecouldhavedrivendownHartCanyonRoadandmadeitpastsecurity.“Idon’tthinkanythingshortofacoyoteorajackrabbitcouldhavemadeitpastthoseguys.YouneedtounderstandthatwhenIsaytheywereonthemesas,Imeanallthemesasinthearea.Wecouldseethempatrollingallthesurroundingarea.Theywerearmedandthereforonepurpose:Toprotecttheareawhileweweredoingourclean-up”[FredReed’semphasis].

Yearslater,asFredputit,“Youhaveabunchofyoungguystravelingandlivinginmotelorhotelrooms,andatnightwewouldtalk.WeneverheardthewordsFlyingSaucerorFlyingDisc,butyearslaterIranintomyoldC.O.andaskedhimwhatthehellcrashedupinAztecbackyearsago.Herespondeditwasnoaircraft,buthehintedtoaflyingdisc.”IaskedFredtobemorespecific,andhereplied,“MyC.O.saiditwasnoaircraft—nothingwehadasfarastheU.S.wasconcerned.Healluded[tome]thatitwasoneofthoseflyingdiscs.”

In1999,Fredreturnedtothecrashorlandingsite.Hesaiditlookedverymuchasithadlookedbackthen.Theoldtreesthathadbeenclippedbyanobject,thesiltandrockterrain,andtheviewofthesurroundingmesasandcanyons—allremindedhimofthatimportanttimebackinApril1948.

“George”SpeaksFromBehindtheScenesAnotheryoungmanwasstationedasanairmanofthefledglingU.S.AirForceatWalkerAirForce

Basein1948.Thebasewaspreviouslynamed(through1947)RoswellArmyAirField.Hisnameiswithheldfromthisbookinordertoprotecthim,butwehaveverifiedhisservicerecord.Fornow,wewillcallhim“George.”12Heretoldhisstorytome(Scott)duringacoldwinternightontheEastCoast,wherehehasretired.HeexplainedtomethattheAztecRecovery,asheputit,wascoordinateddirectlyoutofWalkerAFB.ConsideringtheexperiencegainedthroughtheinvestigationoftheRoswellIncident,itmakesWalkerAFBanobviouschoiceformanagingacover-up.13

Georgeexplainedthattheentirerecoverywashighlycompartmentalized,withinformationrestrictedtoaneed-to-knowbasisconcerningwhateachindividualwasassignedtoworkon.Hetoldmethathisjobwastokeepthepersonnelrecordsforeveryonewhowasworkingontherecovery.Iaskedhimhowmanypeoplewereinvolved,andhisreplywas,“Ifyoucounteveryone,andImeaneveryone,thenyouaretalkingabout200people.”14

Georgeclaimedtoseedailyintelligencereportsconcerningtheprogressthatwasbeingmade.“Iwasn’tinthelooponeverything—justwhatconcernedmeandthepeopleinvolved,”Georgesaid.“IhadpersonnelfilesthatIhadtoupdateeverydayoneveryperson.”IaskedGeorgehowlongtheentireprojecttook,andhereplied,“Everybitoftwoweeks.Wewereinandout,andeveryonewasaccounted

Page 22: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

foronadailybasis.”George’sjobwastomakesurethatnobodyinvolvedwasofficiallyinthatpartofthecountry.Iasked

himtoexplain,andGeorgetoldme:

Look,youhavealargegroupofhighlytrainedpeoplethataredoinganextraordinaryproject.Wekeeprecordsthatshowyou[tobe]maybeinFlorida,maybeevenhaveyouintheinfirmaryforasprainedanklefromplayingvolleyball,asprainedbackfromthebowlingalley—doyougetmydrift?See,now,yearslateryourunyourmouthoffsayingyouworkedonthis,youworkedonthat,andtheAirForcesays,“Bullshit,hewasinFloridathatmonthandwecanproveit—hereishismedicalfile;hewastreatedforasprainedanklethatweek.”Nowdoyouseehowit’sdone?

InmyinterviewwithGeorge,Iaskedhimwhowasinvolvedintherecovery,andhisresponsewas,“YouhadAirForceandArmy,theFifthArmyGroupasIrecall;theywerebasedoutofColoradoandtheAirForcegroupwasbasedoutofWalkerandafewotherbasesorlocations.Thesewerehighlytrainedpeople,notnecessarilyyoungguys—youknow,seasonedguys.”Iaskedwhathemeantby“seasonedguys,”andhisresponsewas,“Look,theyhadtherecoverybackin1947.Theyblewit!Theyputthedamnthingout[tothepress],triedtocoveritup.Fromthattimeon,nomorescrew-ups.”

WhenIaskedformoreclarity,Georgesaid:

TheywentandputoutthatpressreleasethattheArmyhadrecoveredaflyingdisc,thentheyspentthenextfewdaystreadingwaterafteritmadethenews.Nomore—noway—notafterthat.TheAztecdealwasgoingtobecompletelydifferent—newpeople,newprocedures.That’smyopinion.Iwasn’tintheloopasfaraspolicy,butlookingback,that’sthewayitwashandled.

IaskedGeorgeifheknewwheretheobjectorcraftwastakenafteritwasremovedfromAztec.Heresponded,“IwouldguessLosAlamos,becausewhenitwasalloverInoticedthatalotofequipmentwasatLosAlamos,andIwashelpingoneofmyfellowofficersthatwasworkingonlogistics.Hehad‘borrowed’someequipmentthatneededtogetbacktocertainlocations,andhehadsomesittingupatLosAlamos.Youknow,theLaboratory.”Iaskedwhattypeofequipment,andGeorgeresponded,“Flatbeds,lowboys,whateveryoucalledthembackthen.TheyweresittingupatLosAlamos,andhewasworkingongettingthembacktowhereinthehelltheyshouldbe.”

Georgeclaimedhesawpicturesofthecraftfromtimetotime.“Isawblackandwhitesofitafewtimesinourbriefingmeeting.ItseemedtobeextremelylargefromwhatIrecall.”

IaskedGeorgemanyquestionsaswesatinahotellobbybar,havingadrink.Hewasveryreluctanttoanswersomequestions.Hehadneverbeentothesite,andonlyadmittedtoseeingpictures.HehadnoresponsewhenIaskedhimifanybodieswererecovered:“Ineversawanythingorheardanythingaboutthat.”Hedidgivemesomecluestothecrashsite,notrealizingwehadalreadybeentheremanytimes.IguessIhadnotmadethatpartclear,asIhadoriginallyapproachedhimconcerningsomedeclassifiedfilesIhadthatIwantedhistakeon.

Georgeexpandedhiscomments,“Theoperationhadbeendelayedafewdaysinthebeginningoftherecoveryduetosomeproblemswithafreshlycutroad.Thesoilnearthecrashsitewasverymoistandsandyandcreatedproblemsformovinginsomeheavyequipment.”Hetoldmetolookforsomefootersorconcretefoundationsthathadtobepouredinorderfortheequipmenttobestable.Hedidnotrememberexactlywhatequipmentwasinvolvedinmovingtheobject,butwhenImentionedacrane,hethoughtthatwascorrect.

IaskedGeorgeifhehadeversharedthisstorywithanyone.Hisresponsewasthathesharedthestorywithhiswifebeforeshediedofcancer.“Idon’tknowifsheeverbelievedme.Weweretalkingaboutour

Page 23: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

livesandwhatwehaddonebothindividuallyandasacouple.Idon’tknowifshebelievedme.”MyfinalquestiontoGeorgewaswhethertheAirForcewasupsetwithFrankScully,whowrotethe

firstbookontheAzteccrash.Georgeresponded,“Theyweren’tupsetwithScully;theywereconcernedwith[theperson]wholeakedthestorytoScully.”

TheAztecIncidentoccurredonlyeightmonthsafterthenow-famousRoswellcrashandrecovery.TheAzteccrashwasalittleknownUFOincident,virtuallyunknownoutsidethetownitself,anditwaswrittenoffasahoaxforalmost40years.UntilnowonlytwootherbookshavebeenwrittenabouttheAzteccrash,andfewotherresearcherstookthestoryseriously,otherthanauthorsScully(1950),Steinman(1986),Evans(2003),andthentheRamseys,Thayer,andWarrenteamin2012.Inthenextchapters,wewillexaminecloseto30yearsofresearchthathastakenusalloverthecountry,racingtheundertaker,tryingtofindasmanywitnessesaspossiblewhowouldsharetheirstories.Whywasastoryofthismagnitudesoquicklywrittenoff?Wasittheabsenceofwitnesses?Wasitthebusinessmenwhowerelabeledasconmen?Wasitajealousjournalistwhothoughthecouldbuythestory,andthenpoisonedallthepeopleinvolvedwhenherealizedthestorywasgoingintoabest-sellingbook?Or,wasitthemostbrilliantmilitaryandgovernmentcover-upofalltime?

Sitback,relax,andreadonaswetakeyouonajourneythathasbeencoveredupfor61years.FollowtheresearcherswhohavebeenworkingfordecadestobringyoutheastoundingtruthabouttheAztecIncidentandtherecoveryatHartCanyon.

Page 24: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

2

BehindtheFlyingSaucers

“Betweenthepeopleandthegovernmenttodayliesadoublestandardofmorality.”—FrankScully,19501

ItwasFrankScullywhofirstalertedtheworldtotheAzteccrashinthedesertofNewMexicoinhisbookBehindtheFlyingSaucers,publishedinSeptember1950.Itwasthefirsthardbackbookonthesubjectofflyingsaucersandonlythesecondbookpublishedaboutflyingsaucers;MajorDonaldKeyhoe(Ret.)publishedthefirstpaperbackthesameyearwithhisGoldMedalbook,TheFlyingSaucersAreReal.

FrankScullywasabest-sellingauthorandcolumnistwhowassyndicatedinmanydifferentvenuesthroughouttheUnitedStates,butwhowasheandwhywasitthathewasthechosenonetorevealthestory?

FrankScully’slifeseeminglyembodiedhisquote“Whynotgooutonalimb?Isn’tthatwherethefruitis?”

BorninSteinway,NewYork,ScullyattendedtheColumbiaUniversitySchoolofJournalism.Complicationsfromanathleticinjuryresultedintheamputationofhisleg.Additionallyhecontractedtuberculosis,whichledtotheremovalofalung.Throughallofhishospitalstays,surgeries,andmedicalprocedures,Scullywrotewhenhecould.Overthecourseofhiscareerhemadeaverygoodliving.Infact,heendedcollegewithaprofitof$385andallofhismedicalbillspaid.

FrankScully,authorofBehindtheFlyingSaucers.

Duringhislifetime,Scullytraveledto30hospitalsinsevencountriesseekingacureforhisphysical

Page 25: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

afflictions.Heheldpositionsofstatureprofessionallyandpersonally.AfewofhisdistinctionsincludedbeingthepublicityandadvertisingdirectorofMetro-Goldwyn-MayerProductionsinNice,France.HewasknightedbyPopePiusXIIintotheOrderofSt.GregorytheGreat,andhewasthepresidentoftheCatholicInterracialCouncilofHollywood.

RegardlessofwhereFrank,hiswife,Alice,andfivechildrenlived,theScullyhomewasahavenforfriendsfromallwalksoflife.Asafeandtrustedenvironment,theScullyCircus,astheranchinCaliforniabecameknown,wasashelterforguestswhowereintroubleandneededtheirstoriestoldtothepublic.ThispossiblyshedslightonwhytheseveralscientistswhomyouwillcometoknowcollectivelyasDr.Geeselectedhim.FrankwastoldthattheTopSecretinformationdescribedinBehindtheFlyingSaucerswastobereleasedtothepublic“withinoneyear.”2

Ofcourse,wenowknowtheinformationhasneverbeenofficiallyreleasedtothepublic.Whetheritwaspartofhisjournalisticintegrityorjustthenatureofthepersonhewas,Scullytookthenamesofthosescientiststohisgrave,despitethefirestormofcontroversyandgovernmentharassmentthatthreatenedhisreputation.

ScullyfirstheardabouttheAztecstoryfromamannamedSilasMasonNewton,whohadcorrespondedwithScullyconcerninganarticleScullyhadwritteninhisVarietycolumn“RoguesGallery.”Thetwostartedafriendship,andScullywasinvitedbyNewtontojoinagrouponanexcursionintotheMojaveDesertwhereNewtonwastotestoneofhisoil-detectiondevices,forwhichhewastobecomebothfamousandnotorious.AstheyrodethroughthedesertonSeptember8,1949,PeverlyMarley,SilasNewton,ascientistreferredtobyScullyonlyas“Dr.Gee,”andScullytraveledtotesttheoil-findingdevice.Marleywasanaward-winningcinematographermostrememberedforhavingbeenmarriedtoactressLindaDarnell.Astheydrovethroughthedesert,onetopicledtoanotherandfinallytoadiscussionofflyingsaucers.

NewtonhadalreadybriefedScullyonthefactthatthisDr.Geehadconfidedtohiminthesummerof1949,duringadrivefromDenvertoPhoenix,concerningthefactthattheUnitedStatesalreadyhadrecoveredtwoflyingsaucers.Dr.Geewantedtobreakthestory,sayingthegovernmentwastorevealthestorywithinayear,buthewantedthestoryoutimmediately.ThisDr.Geeclaimedhewasoneofseveralscientistswhohadpersonallyseen,examined,checkedon,andresearchedtherecoveredflyingsaucersthattheU.S.governmenthadinitspossession.Dr.GeehadtoldNewtonduringtheirdrivetoPhoenixthatonecrafthadcrashedorlandednearAztec,NewMexico,justsouthofwheretheyweredriving,andthatoneofthefallensaucerswasrecoveredalmostundamaged.

Thisscientisthadlefthisgovernmentjob,sayinghewasreleasedthepreviousJuly,aftersevenyearsofservice.Hehadworkedontop-drawerprojectsandhadbecomeamasterofmagneticenergy,but$7,200ayearwasallhecouldmakeforallhismastery.

HeworkedonadevicecalledtheMagnetron,anditwashisgroupduringthewarwhosedevicesclaimedtohave“knockedoutasmanyas17Japanesesubmarinesinoneday.Theyhadconducted35,000experimentsforthegovernmentonland,sea,andair.Theyhadmovedmagneticresearchaheadhundredsofyearsandhadspentabilliondollarsdoingit.”Additionally,Dr.GeetoldScully,“Theyworkedoutoftwolaboratoriesandhadabudgetof$1billionattheirsecretcommand.”

Aftertheirdayinthedeserttryingoutmagneticoilfindingdevices,Newton,Marley,Scully,andDr.GeedroveacrossthedesertandreturnedtotheScullyhouse,whereDr.Geetoldhisamazingstoryofworkingontheserecoveredsaucers,especiallytheAztecsaucerthatwas,asDr.Geeputit,“virtuallyintact.”Hedescribedthedetailsofthecraft,suchasthecrewcompartment,unusualwaterfoundonboard,andthepeculiarclothingoftheoccupants,justasthoughhewasdescribingthelivingroomofsomeone’shome.

ItwasexplainedbyDr.Gee:

Page 26: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

InthelaboratoriesandalsoatAlamogordoandLosAlamosandatdifferentpartsofthecountrywehavetenesopeobserverswhospend24hoursadaywatchingforevidenceofobjectsorshipsflyinginthesky.Everythingthatcomeswithintherangeofthesetenescopesisnoted.Ifitisunfamiliarandlands,theAirForceisawareofitalmostimmediately,andifitpresentsscientificproblems,weortheothergroupsareconsulted.Twotenescopescaughtthisunidentifiedshipasitcameintoouratmosphere.Theywatcheditspositionandestimatedwhereitwouldland.Withinafewhoursafteritlanded,AirForceofficersreachedtheflyingfieldatDurango,Colo.,andtookoffintheirsearchfortheobject.

TheobjectapparentlylandedorcrashednortheastofAztec,onamesa.Scully’sbookdescribeshowDr.Geeexplainedtothementhatthesecraftwerepoweredby

magnetismandthatcertainmetalsfoundonthecraftorpartofitsconstructionwere“notfoundonthisearth.”Dr.Geesaidhesuspectedthatthesecraftwerespaceshipsfromanotherplanet.Scullyfounditinterestingthatamanwhowashelpingotherslookforoilinthedesertwasinfactdiscountingoilasthemeansofpropulsioninthefuture.Duringtheevening,Dr.Geepromisedthegroupthathewouldreturnatsomepointandshowthemenpartsfromoneofthesecraft.

Duringalatermeeting,Dr.GeeshowedupwithwhatScullydescribedassmallpartsofthediscthatlandedorcrashedatAztec.Scullydescribedoneartifactasbeingasmallradio-likecube“withnotubes,noaerials,nowires.”Dr.Geeexplainedhethoughtthatthecraftitselfwastheantennafortheobject.Heclaimedthathecouldheara“highsingsongnote15minutespastthehour”emittingfromthebox.Theobject,accordingtoScully,was“notmuchbiggerthatapackofking-sizedcigarettes.”Thisdevice,accordingtoScully,hadDr.Geecompletelybaffled.

ScullydescribedhowDr.GeefeltaboutthedismantlingoftheAztecsaucer:“Heregrettedtheshipwasdismantledthisway,buttheArmyseemstobreedsouvenirhuntersasitdoesrank.”Thismeant,accordingtoScully,thatDr.Geehadgrabbedwhathecould,notforhisownself-interest,butforscientificresearch.

Dr.GeetoldScullythattheAirForcetooksomemotionpictures,butthedevelopedfilmwouldapparentlyfadeaftertwohoursforreasonsofsecurity.Aspecialchemical,onlyavailabletoafew,wouldrestorethefilmforanotherhour.Scullydidnotfurtherexplainthisunverifiedstoryaboutdisappearingimagesonfilm,butitconfirmsthehighprioritygiventophotographsorfilmoftheAztecsaucer.Dr.GeealsotoldScullythathehadtakenhisownfilmofthecraft,butitwasnotofgoodquality.HepromisedtoshowittoScullyandthegroupatalatermeeting.

SomuchofDr.Gee’sstoryanditsdetailsseemedincrediblein1948,whereastodaythistechnologyhaseitherbecomerealityoriscommonlyacceptedaspossible.

ScullysaidthatDr.Geefulfilledhispromiseatalatermeetingwherethegroup,includingSilasNewton,wasabletostudytheflyingsaucermaterial.Theyexaminedthegearsandtheradio,andviewedDr.Gee’sfilm.Scullywasnotinitiallyconvincedthatthiswasarealstorytorunwith,butaftersometimewithDr.Gee,hewasreadytowritethebookthatwouldturnouttobethefirstpublishedbookaboutapossiblealienspaceshipthatsomehowmadeanimpromptulandinginaremotedesertregionintheUnitedStates.

Dr.GeeexplainedthatitwashistechnicalgroupofscientistsfromWorldWarIIthatexaminedthecraftaswellasstudythepropulsionsystem.Thelittlebodiesofthesauceroccupantshadgonetoanotherfacilityforexamination.Additionallythemilitaryhadfoundsomepamphletsorbookletsinsidetheship.Theseweredescribedbysomesourcesashavingthetextureofparchmentandpossiblyhadtodowithnavigationornavigationproblems.ThebookletsorpamphletswerecomposedofpictorialsymbolsthatsomesaidwereakintoEgyptianhieroglyphics.TheseitemswereturnedovertoofficialsoftheAir

Page 27: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Force,whointurngotthemintothehandsofcryptographersexperiencedindecipheringcodesandlanguages.

Dr.Geelatersaidthatthelasthehadheard(in1950),therehadbeennoheadwayintranslatingthematerialandthattheshipcarriednoinstrumentsofdestruction,nordidthecrewappeartohaveanyfirearmsofanykind.Thecrafthadawayofdemagnetizinganyobjectthatcameincontactwithit,hostileorotherwise.Hespeculatedthatthedemagnetizing,ordegaussing,woulddestroyordisintegrateanyobjectinthepathofthecraft.

WhenDr.Geewasquestionedastotheconstructionofthecraft,heexplainedthattheouterskinofthecraftappearedtobealuminum,butfurthertestsindicatedthatitwasnoformofaluminumknownonearth.Thecraftwasverylight;twoorthreemencouldeasilyliftonesideofit.However,theothersideoftheequationprovedthatasmanyasadozenmenwhohadcrawleduponthetopofthe“wing”couldmakenoimpressionordentsonit.

Dr.GeetoldScullythattheAirForcewantedtomovetheshipfromtheAztecrecoverysite,ofcourse,anddecidedtodismantleitbecauseitwastoolargetomoveotherwise.Thecraftorship,ashereferredtoit,wasabsentofanyrivets,bolts,orscrewstogivetechniciansanyreferenceastohowthecraftwasconstructed.

Afteralongstudyofthecraft,itwasagreedthatitwasassembledinsegments.Thesesegmentswere“fittedingroovesandwerepinnedtogetheraroundthebase.”

InScully’sbook,Dr.Geetellsmore:

Whenthecabinwasliftedoutofthebottomofthesaucer,theyfoundagearcompletelyencirclingthebottomoftheship,andthisgearfittedinsideagearofanotherratiothatwasonthecabin.Thewholethingwasveryingeniouslyputtogether,andalotofcarewastakeninbreakingitdown.Afterithadbeenbrokendown,itwasmovedtoagovernmenttestinglaboratoryandthereitremainedwhilepartswerebeingtestedforaconsiderableperiodoftime.

AccordingtoScully’sbook,thenexttimeDr.Geesawtherecovereddisc,“theinstrumentboard,tohisamazementandchagrin,hadbeenbrokenupandalloftheinnerworkingstornapart.Thispreventedanyfurtherstudybythemastothemagneticoperationoftheshipitself.”

Dr.Geesaidheregrettedthewaythedismantlinghadbeendone,becauseiftheyhadbeenabletokeepitintactlongenough,“theremighthavecomeatimewhentheymighthaveworkedoutaplanwherebytheycouldmakecertaintestsastothedifferentpushbuttonsontheinstrumentboard.These,hewascertain,heldtheclews[sic]tothemagneticformofcombustiondevelopedontheshipitself.”

Whenasked“Whathasbeendonewiththepeoplethatwereontheship?”Dr.GeetoldScully:“…someofthemhadbeendissectedandstudiedbythemedicaldivisionsoftheAirForceandthatfromthemeagerreportshehadreceived,theyhadfoundthattheselittlefellowswereinallrespectsperfectlynormalhumanbeings,exceptfortheirteeth.Therewasn’tacavityorafillinginanymouth.Theirteethwereperfect.”

Dr.Geesaid,“Fromthecharacteristicsandphysiologyoftheirbodiestheymusthavebeenabout35to40yearsofage,judgedbyourstandardsofage.”

Astowhatthesauceroccupantswerewearing,Dr.GeetoldScullytheyallworethesametypeofuniform:adarkbluegarment,withmetalbuttons.Hesaiditwassignificantthattherewerenoinsigniaofanykindonthecollars,sleeves,oronthecapsofthesepeople.So,toallintentsandpurposes,“allofthemhadthesamerank.”

Furthermore,Dr.Geecommentedonthefactthatthe“littlepeople”onboard

Page 28: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

seemedtobecharredaverydarkchocolatecolor.Abouttheonlythingthatwecoulddecideatthetimewasthatthecharringhadoccurredsomewhereinspaceandthattheirbodieshadbeenburnedasaresultofairrushingthroughthatbrokenportholewindow,orsomethinggoingwrongwiththemeansbywhichtheshipwaspropelledandthecabinpressure.Noneofuscouldarriveatanyconclusionastowhenorhowthiswindowhadbroken,oratwhatpossiblepointinspacetheseoccupantsmusthavebeenkilled.Thesimplefactwasthattheretheywere,deadfromeitherburnsorthebends,andweproceededwiththefurtherexaminationoftheinterioroftheship.

ScullyrecordedinhisbookthatDr.Geedescribedtwobucketseatsinsidethemaincabin“…infrontoftheinstrumentpanelboardandtwoofthelittlefellowsweresittingthere.Theyhadfallenover,facedown,ontheinstrumentboard.”

ThiswastheshortversionofFrankScully’sstoryontheflyingdiscthatlandedorcrashednearAztec.Dr.GeetoldScullyaveryinterestingstory,anditwasour(theauthors’)jobtoresearchthiseventtoseewhatlightwecouldshedonanimportanthistoricalevent,andtoseeiftheoriginalstorycouldholdupthroughthemanyyearsofresearchthatensued.

Itshouldbementionedagainherethat“Dr.Gee”wasusedasanamebyScullytorepresentcontributionsfromuptoninedifferentscientistsinvolvedinthestudyoftheAztecsaucer,andthatmaterialquotedinthischapterappearstocomefromoneparticularscientistwhomScullyaccompaniedontheoilfindingtripandwhocametohishomeforsubsequentmeetings.

FrankScully’sbookcameunderattackshortlyafteritwaspublished—notbytheAirForce,notbytheArmy,notbythePentagoniansasFrankScullycalledthemilitary,butbyamannamedJ.P.Cahn,whothoughthehadgottentheshortendofabusinessdealwithScullywhereinhehadattemptedtobuyScully’ssaucerstory.Thatwasthedealthatneverwas,accordingtoScully.CahnhadworkedattheSanFranciscoChronicleintheearly1950sandhadheardaboutScully’sstoryontheflyingdiscrecovery.CahncontactedScullyandmadehimanoffertopurchasethestoryfortheChronicle.

Cahnhadresignedfromhisfull-timepositionwiththeChronicleandwasfreelancingwhenhecontactedScully,althoughhestillhadadeskatthenewspaper.Wehavededicatedanentirechapter(Chapter5)toJ.P.Cahnand,aspartofourresearchonthisbook,I(Scott)traveledtoCaliforniatointerviewsomepeoplewhoknewhim,workedwithhim,andwerewithhimupuntilhislastday.ImissedinterviewingJ.P.Cahnbyonlyafewmonths.Regrettably,IhadlistenedtothelateKarlPflockratherthantrustingmygutinstinctinthisregard.PflockwasoneoftheAztecskeptics,andhetoutedhimselfasanexpert.Onenight,asIwastalkingtoKarl,ImentionedIwasgoingtotrytotrackdownJ.P.Cahn,andKarlinformedmethatCahnhadlongsincepassedaway.SupposedlyIwasyearstoolate.Thetruthofthematterwasthattheformerjournalistandhit-pieceauthorwasaliveandfairlywell,livinginaretirementhomeoutsideofSanFrancisco.

Thiswasamajorlessonlearned:Doone’sownresearchanddonotcountonothers.MoreonKarlPflocklater(Chapter7),aswehavedevotedanentirechaptertotheAztecskepticsandlaypeoplewhoclaimtobeexperts,mostofthemnothavinganyresearchoftheirown.

J.P.CahntriedtonegotiateadealwithFrankScullyfortherightstotheAztecstory.ThatwasCahn’ssideofthestory.Scullyclaimstheofferwassocheapthathe(Scully)wouldneverconsiderit.CahnapparentlythoughthecouldgivetheAztecstorymorebangforthebucksinceflyingsaucerstorieswerehotnewsintheearly1950s,andCahnhadapassionfornotonlytheflyingsaucersbutalsotheincrediblestorythatScullyhadtooffer.

Keepinmindthatthisuniqueincidentisaflyingsaucerrecoverystory,notjustagreatsighting,norlightsinthesky,butthe1948recoveryofaflyingsaucerthatwasneverrevealedtothepublic.Afterall,itwasonlyeightmonthsearlier,inJuly1947,whentheRoswellflyingsaucerstorywassoquicklyswept

Page 29: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

undertherugbytheArmyAirCorpscoverstorythatitwasamisidentifiedweatherballoon.AztecseemedliketherealdealtoCahnand,becausehewasanexcellentwriterhimself,hedesperatelywantedthestory.HeevenconvincedScottNewhall,hisfriendandasectioneditorattheSanFranciscoChronicle,thatthestorywas“inthebag.”3

AfteritbecameapparentthatScullyhadnointentionsofsellinganincrediblestorysuchastheAztecrecovery,andbecausehealreadyhadabookdeallinedup,coldrealitysetinforCahn:ThestorywasScully’sandhewasontheoutsidelookingin.Witheggonhisface,CahndidanaboutfaceanddecidedtokeephiswordtoScullythathewoulddestroynotonlyScully,buttheentireAztecflyingsaucerstory.

Thiswasdoneinseveralsegments:First,CahnhadtodiscreditthesourcesforScully’sstory;second,CahnhadtodiscreditScully;andthird,hehadtomakesuretheAztecstorylookedasphonyasthebusinessdealwithwhichhehadproposedtodupeScully.

First,CahncontactedtheFBIafterhediscoveredthatSilasNewton,oneofScully’sinformants,hadsomequestionablebusinessdealingsinColorado.Thiswasnothingnew,astheoilbusinessalwayshasahighlevelofriskwhenitinvolvesinvestorsputtinginlarge,orsometimessmall,amountsofmoneyintoanoilwellinvestment.ThatwashowSilasNewtonmadehismoney:sellingpercentageownershipsinoilwells.Sometimestheoilwellshitbig,andeveryonewashappy;sometimesthewellsstrucknothingbutdirtywaterandeverybodywasveryunhappy.Sowenttheoilbusinessinthe1950s,justasitdoestoday.

CahnwascleverenoughtolocateoneHermanFlader,aDenverbusinessmanwhohadhisownseriesofbadandveryspeculativebusinessdealsaswell.FladerhadinvestedalotofmoneyinoneofSilasNewton’soilwells,aswellasinoneofNewton’sdoodlebugdevices(atermusedforelectronicsensingequipmentusedtofindoil,gas,water,andwhateverelsetheinventorclaimedtheunitcouldlocate)thatFladerandotherswereconvincedwouldmakethemmillionsofdollars.

Byruiningthesourceofthestory,meaningSilasNewton,CahnwasassuredthatScully’sstorywouldcrashandburnfasterthanarookiedriveratDaytonaduringspeedweek.

NumbertwoonCahn’slistwastodestroyScully,whichwouldbedonebydestroyingthesourcesfortheAztecstory,thusruiningScully’snewbook,whichwassellingbetterthanfansonahotsummernightintheCarolinas.Withthisaccomplished,theAztecflyingsaucerstorywoulddieaquickdeath,andCahn’smissionwouldbeaccomplished.

Surprisingly,thisallhappenedinarathershorttime.Cahn,asthereaderwillseelaterinthisbook,withthehelpoftheU.S.governmentandthemilitarypowers,orPentagonians,asScullycalledthem,wouldallteamupagainsttheAztecflyingsaucerstoryandputaquickandnastyendtowhatwouldhavebeenjustanotherstoryaboutacrashedflyingsaucerintheNewMexicodesert.Itwouldenduponthetrashheap,alongwiththealready-forgottenRoswellcrasheddiscstory.

Asweresearchedthisbook,manythingscompletelyamazedus;oneofthosethingswastheCahnangleonthis.Heseemedtogofurtherthanonewouldthinkconcerningabadbusinessdeal.Hisonlyostensiblerewardwasaper-wordpaymentforhislonghitpiece,“TheFlyingSaucersandtheMysteriousLittleMen”inTrueMagazine.4

Afterall,mostofushaveexperiencedbadbusinessdealsatonetimeoranother,buttotakethistothevendettalevelasCahndidseemsextremetosaytheleast.HeandScottNewhallweregoodfriendsinthe1950s,arrivingattheSanFranciscoChronicletogetherasateamwhentheownersofthepaperwantedsomenew,youngbloodtogetthenewspaperbackontrack.Hedidnotleavethepaperunderacloud,andneverlostcredibilitywithNewhalloranyofthestaffoverthesaucerstory.Plus,hewasnotafull-timeemployeewhenhetriedtonegotiatethedealbetweenScullyandthenewspaper.Eventhoughhisformerfriendsandcoworkersallsaidhehadabigego,thisentireflyingsaucerstoryseemedtotakeCahntoastratosphericleveloffrustration.

AsyoureadChapter5inthisbook,youwillseethathesomehowhadenormousresourcesathis

Page 30: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

disposalwhenhewentafterFrankScully.WhoelsewasbehindthemissiontogetScully’sbookdiscredited?ItcertainlywasnottheotherinvestorsofSilasNewton’sdoodlebugdevice,norwasittheotherinvestorsinNewton’soilwellventures.ItturnsoutthatNewton‘sinvestorswere,inthemain,allquitehappy,ascourtrecordsshow.ThesesatisfiedinvestorswerenotevenallowedtotestifyintheDenverfraudtrialbroughtonbytheFBIlookingintoSilasNewtonandhisoilwellschemes.

AfterthebadpressonSilasNewton,theentireAztecflyingsaucerstorydiddieaquickdeath.BehindtheFlyingSaucersdidverywellupuntiltheCahnderailment.Bythemid-1950s,noresponsiblewriterorUFOinvestigatorwouldtouchtheAztecstorywitha10-footpole.Itwasnotuntilthemid1980swhenWilliamSteinmanandWendelleStevensco-wrotethe623-pagebookUFOCrashatAztecthattherumoroftheAztecincidentbegantoawakenfromitsfour-decadesleep.

SteinmanandStevens’sbookwaswellresearched,butAztecstillcarriedthestigmaasanon-eventinmostUFOresearchcircles,andexpertssaidthatanybodydoingresearchonAztecwaswastingherorhistime.ThepublichadlongbeforeconsignedAztectoaquaintlegendwithnobasisinfact.

Steinmanhadsecuredsomeexcellentinterviewsinthebook,butherarelyusednameswhenitcametowitnesses—onlyinitials.ThiswasamajorproblemtomanywhenitcametothecredibilityofthesourceswithwhomSteinmanclaimedtohavetalkedandinterviewed.Itwasn’tuntilI(Scott)startedresearchingtheAztecstorymorethantwodecadesagothatIcametofullyunderstandwhatSteinmanhadgonethroughtoresurrecttheAztecrecoverystory.

So,theAztecUFOorflyingsaucerstorylaydeadforyears,evenafterthe1986SteinmanbookthatalmostunknownoutsideofthetownofAztecitself.WhenIlearnedaboutAztec,andthebook,duringavisittothecommunityofAztec,asIexplainedearlierinthisbook,IwassuddenlyawareofastorythatmightbeasbigasRoswell.FrankScullyhadpossiblycomeacrossaflyingsaucerstorythatwassecondonlytotheRoswellcrashretrievalof1947,orperhapsitwasthebiggestscamofthe1950s,thewayCahnhaddescribedit.

Theonlywaytocarefullyresearchastoryasbigasthisistotakeeverypartofthestory,piecebypiece,andcarefullylookateveryclaimmadebyScully,Cahn,Newton,LeoGeBauer,Flader,theFBI,andacastofhundreds,allofwhomwouldbeinterviewedbeforetheverdictwasin.Now,you,thereader,knowthebasisforthestory.

Page 31: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

3

RAFWelford,Newbury,Berkshire,England,1964

ScottRamseyMeetsStantonFriedmanBecausenuclearphysicistStantonFriedmanisahighlyrespectedresearcherandauthorintheUFOfield,I(Scott)vividlyremembermyfirstpersonalencounterwithFriedman.Thisismyaccountofthatmeeting:MyfirstmeetingwithStanFriedmanwasinearly2000whenIwashelpingtheAztecLibrary

developitsAztecUFOSymposium.ThesymposiumwasorganizedtoraiseawarenessforandtoassistinraisingfundstobuildadesperatelyneedednewlibrarybuildingforAztec.ThelibrarybuildingnowstandsasasymbolforthesuccessofthesymposiumandthecorrespondinghelpfromtheNewMexicoLegislature.ItalkedwithStanonthephoneandinvitedhimtobeoneofourspeakersforthe2000fundraiser.At

thattime,theAztecUFOSymposiumhadareputationofbringinginprovocativeandimportantspeakerstothesymposium,anditprideditselfinhostingworld-renownedguestspeakerswhowereauthoritiesintheUFOfield.TheeventwasalwaysheldinMarch,neartheanniversaryoftheallegedAztecUFOcrash.Stantoldmehewasmorethanhappytoattend,eventhoughtheonlyinducementwecouldofferatthattimewasaplaneticketfromCanada,ahotelroom,andthreemealsaday.BecauseStanwasspeakingthatweekattheUniversityofNewMexico(UNM)inAlbuquerque,I

agreedtoflyinfromCharlotte,NorthCarolina,andmeethimattheairportsothatwecouldthendrivethe148milestoAztec.ItwasexcitingformehaveStanaloneintherentalvehicleforaboutthreehours.Ihadalwaysbeenafanofhis,asIrememberwatchinghimonlocaltelevisioninPittsburghwhenIwasakid.StanwasafrequentguestoneitherTheMarieTorreShoworonlocalTVnewsanytimethesubjectofUFOswasdiscussed.AsIloadedStanintomyrentalcarthatFridayattheUniversityofNewMexico,wediscussedhis

lecturestheprevioustwodaysatUNMandthefactthattheyweresowellattendedthathehadtoschedulelecturesonbothWednesdayandagainonThursdayjusttokeepthefiremarshalatbay.AswenegotiatedthescenicdrivefromAlbuquerquetoAztec,StanaskedmewhyaguyfromNorthCarolinawashelpingasmall-townlibraryraisefunds.IexplainedthatIwasresearchingwhethertheoldstoryaboutaUFOcrashatAztecwouldturnouttohaveasmuchsubstanceashadbeendiscoveredwiththeRoswellIncident.StanwasquicktoremindmethatmostpeoplehadwrittenofftheAzteccrashstorymanyyearsbefore,buthesaidhewasopentoanynewevidence.Wetalkedfortheentirethree-hourdrive,andIlaidouttheevidenceIhadfoundinmyresearchup

tothatpoint.Idon’tthinkhewasoverlyimpressedwithwhatIhadfound,butheencouragedmetokeepondigging.Hewasinterestedinthefactthatwehadfoundsomepotentialwitnesses,asfirst-personsourcesweretheonethingtheAztecstoryalwayslacked.Sincethattime,StanreturnedtoAztecmanytimesasaspeaker,andhewasalwaysthereforus

whenweneededtobounceideasoffhim.HisvisittoAztecin2000,andoursubsequentrelationship,wasthebeginningofanimportantphaseofourresearch.StanandItalkedtothepressduringtheAztecUFOSymposiumof2003and,duringaninterview

withFarmingtonDailyTimesreporterDebraMayeux,StanmentionedthatbothheandIwerealwayslookingfornewwitnessesfortheRoswellandAzteccases.Debra’sbosslikedherresultingstoryso

Page 32: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

muchthathefileditontheAssociatedPresswire.ThestoryraninmediaalloverNorthAmerica.Atthatpoint,IfeltthatmaybeStanwasstartingtolookattheAztecIncidentwithneweyes.Hehad

justheardtheresearchwereportedduringthethreedaysattheSymposium,andIcouldseethegearsinhisheadturning.Shortlyafterthe2003AztecSymposium,StanwasonanationalradioshowandmentionedmyAztecresearch.VirgilRiggs,whowaslivingatthetimeinEvanston,Wyoming,happenedtobelisteningtotheshowthatnight.VirgilhadgrownupinAztec,hadattendedthelocalschool,andhadwitnessedthe1950FlyingSaucerArmadathatappearedoverFarmingtonandLasVegas,NewMexico,andwasafront-pageUFOstoryin1950.(WehavemoreontheUFOArmadainthisbook,asweareamongmanyseriousresearcherswhofeelthatitwasoneofthemostimportantandbest-documentedUFOsightingsinNewMexico.)VirgilcontactedStanandsaidthathewaspleasedtohearthatsomeonewasresearchingtheoldAztecstory,ashehadalwaysmaintainedaninterestintheevent.

OnthemorningofJuly9,2003,I(Scott)receivedane-mailfromStansayingthathehadapossibleleadtotheAztecIncident.Adayortwoafterreceivingthee-mailfromStan,IrespondedinkindtoVirgilandaskedifwecouldtalkbyphone.Virgilsaidhewasmorethanwilling,andthefirstphoneconversationlastedforhours.AsidefromourmutualinterestintheAztecIncident,wehadmanyothersharedinterests.WetalkedaboutthetownofAztecandagreeditwaslocatedinoneofthemostbeautifulpartsofthecountry.Becausehewasaprivatepilot,VirgilagreedthathewouldflyintoAztecanddiscusswithuswhathehadlearnedwhileintheAirForceandstationedatRAFWelford,Newbury,Berkshire,England.HewasassignedtotheU.S.munitionsdepotonthebasein1964.

VirgilRiggsdoingannualmaintenanceonhisCessna152.

TheVirgilRiggsStory:AztecUFOCrashof19481AsakidgrowingupinAztec,NM,inthelate1940stothelate1950s,Ihadheardmanyfolkstalk

abouttheUFOcrashnorthofAztec.Kidsatschoolwouldoccasionallydiscusswhenandwhereithadoccurred.Fortheold-timeAztecfolks,IattendedMrs.Martin’s2ndgradeclassintheoldfour-room,red

Page 33: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

brick,two-storyschoolhouse.Therewerebigenclosedfireescapeslidesfromthesecondfloor.Itwaslocatedonthesitewherethe“new”highschoolwasconstructedinthemid-1950s.Ihadheardmydadandotherroughnecksintheoil“patch”discussthecrashandthe“littleguys

inside!”Idon’tthinkmydadseriouslybelievedtheeventoccurred,ashewasnotwitnesstothehappenings.ButthesubjectofthecrashwasthetopicofmanyconversationsatTheGasCapCafé,TheAztecCafé,Bill’sPlaceBar,andTheHiwayLounge,alloftheseplaces[Iwentto]withmydad.Whilewewerelookeddownuponas“oilfieldtrash,”theso-called“good”peopleofAztechadnoproblemcashingmydad’soilfieldpaychecks.IwentintotheU.S.AirForceinMarchof1960andwasstationedatBollingAFB,Washington,DC,

andlateratKunsanAB,Korea.AftertheisolatedtourofdutyinKorea,Iwasallowedmychoiceofdutyassignmentsandoptedforaconservativeoverseasassignment;IaskedforJapan,England,France,oranyplaceinEurope.In1964,IwasassignedtotheU.S.munitionsbaseatRAFWelford,Newbury,Berkshire,England.DutyinEnglandwasgood.IboughtalittleEnglishcar,aMorrisMinor.MysisterinFarmington,

NM,mailedmeaNMStateUniversitywindowsticker,whichIputinthewindowofthelittlecar.Iwasatworkatthebasemotorpoolonedaywhenafellowfromthevehiclemaintenanceshop

walkedacrossthestreetandaskedmeifIwasfromNewMexico,ashehadseenthestickeronmycar.Weintroducedourselves.HisfamilynamewasDonaldBass,withthenicknameof“Sam”(liketheoldgunslinger).WecomparedpastdutystationsandrealizedthatwehadbothbeenstationedinKoreaaboutthesametime!IwasinKunsanAB,andSamhadbeenatOsanABin1963/1964,beforewewerebothreassignedtoRAFWelfordinEngland.ItoldSamBassthatIwasfromtheFourCornersareaofNewMexico.HeaskedmeifIeverlived

inAztec.ItoldSamthatyes,IindeedlivedinAztecandknewtheareaandtownfairlywell.SamsaidthathehadbeeninAztecbrieflyin1948.Iassumedthathehadbeenintheoilfield.SamsuggestedthatwemeetattheAirman’sClubafterdinnerandtalk;Iagreed.OurconversationwasprettymuchaboutAztec.IaskedSamwhyhewassointerestedinAztec,NM.SamaskedmewhatallIknewabouttheUFOcrashatAztecin1948.ItoldhimthatIhadheardaboutitformostofmylife,buthadnodirectknowledgeaboutit.Sam

thenaskedmeifIthoughtwewerealoneintheuniverse.IrepliedthatIthoughttherehadtobeintelligentlifeouttheresomewhere.Samtoldmethatheknewforafacttherewaslifefromelsewhere,ashehadseensomeactual“littlebodies”andthathehadbeeninvolvedwiththeUFOcrashretrievalatAztec,NM,inMarchof1948!HehadbeenstationedatRoswell,NM(Walker)andwasflownwithagroupofUSAFpersonneltoDurango,Colorado,byC-47(DC-3)aircraft,thendrivenondowntothecrashsite.SamtoldmethathehadseenthebodiesattheAzteccrashsite,astheywereloadedontoatruck.

Hedidnottellmeifthebodieswereinbodybags,caskets,orpreservedinanyway,buthethoughttheywereplacedinthecargotruckforprotectionfromtheelementsandoutofsight.HethoughtthebodieswereeventuallymovedtoOhiobyroadtransportationandthatthecraftwasmovedbyroadtransportationtothenewsecureairportatLosAlamos,NM.Samalsorelatedthatalightspringsnowstormhadoccurredwhilethedetachmentwasatthecrashsitebeforethecraftwasdisassembledandremoved.Samwasamazedthatthesnowandiceaccumulatedonthemilitaryvehicles,buttherewasnoaccumulationonthecraft’ssurface.IaskedSamaboutthefoodandquartersforthetroopswhileatAztec.Samsaidtheywereonthe

crashsite24/7andneverleft.Theywereprovidedfoodrationsandsleepingbags.Sleepinshiftswasin,under,orinthecargobedofthemilitaryvehicles.Notentsorcotsorhotchowwasavailable.Latrinefacilitieswereinthebrush.Sam’smainduty

Page 34: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

wastoprovideperimetersecurityofthecrashsite,tokeeppeopleaway.Samwasattheverybottominthechainofcommandandwasaveryyoungtrooperatthetime.Wecarriedonthisconversationforthenextthreeyears,[during]whichSam’sstoryneverchanged,

enhanced,orembellished.SamwarnedmenottotalkabouttheeventatAztec,astalkingabouttheUFOcrashhadcausedhisU.S.AirForcecareertosufferbadly.HewastheonlyA/2C(E-3)withnearly20yearsofservicesthatIhadevermet.Iwas22yearsold,andSamwasinhislate30s.Samalwayslookedoverhisshoulderandalwaysendedourconversationthatperhapshehad“talkedtoomuchalready.”SamandIbothwereadvancedtoA/1C(E-4)aboutthesametimeatRAFWelford.SamandIboth

gotmarriedaboutthesametimein1965.WebothmovedintothemarriedquartersonthebaseatRAFWelford,intotrailerhousesnexttoeachotherfornearlythreeyears.SamisagoodfriendandIcertainlyhopethathecanbelocated.IhopethathesurvivedVietnam.IwentbacktotheU.S.forseparationfromtheU.S.AirForceandentryintotheU.S.NavySeabees,

inJulyof1968.RepeatedtoursofVietnamfollowed.SamBasswentdirectlytoanairbaseinVietnam,Ithinkaboutthesametime.HavenotseenorheardaboutSamsince.Iamnowabout71yearsofage;Samwillbeabout91yearsofageormore.IheardStantonFriedmanonaradioprogramoneeveningin2003talkingaboutScottRamseyand

hisresearchintothe1948UFOcrashatAztec,NM.Mr.Friedmanaskedforanyonewithanyknowledgeoftheeventtoemailhim.IsentanemailanditwasforwardedtoScottRamsey.Asachildatschool,IalsoremembergoingoutsideatrecessandlookingatsomeofthemassUFO

formationsintheareaabout1950.ThislaterbecameknownastheFarmingtonArmada.VirgilJ.RiggsAugust24,2015

Page 35: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

USAFdutyorders.

AnalyzingtheDonaldBassStoryVirgilandI(Scott)metmanytimesinoursearchforDonaldBass,alsoknowntohisfellow

servicemenattheWelfordbaseasSamBass.CountlesshourshavebeenspenttryingtofindBass.WehavespentsomuchtimeonDonaldBassthat

wethinkweknoweveryDonaldBassintheUnitedStatesofAmerica.Weknowfromtheimpeccablerecord-keepingofbothVirgilRiggsandtheAirForcethatDonaldBassdidexist.WefoundphotosofhimintheRAFWelfordYearBookontheirwebsite.WehavetheoriginalordersanddutyrostersfromVirgilRiggsthatshowBass’snameandAFnumber,butsadly,wecan’tfindtheelusivemanwhoclaimedhewasattheactualrecoveryorretrievaloftheAztecsaucer.

WhatisinterestingaboutBass’saccountarethesimilardetailsaboutAztecthatwediscoveredelsewhereinourresearch,suchastherecoveryteambeingflownintoDurango,andthenbeingdrivendowntothecrashsite.ThiswasthesamemeansoftransportationthatthemysteriousDr.GeetookonhiswaytotheAztecsite.ThesecondpartofBass’sstorythatstruckmeisagainthetalkof“littlebodies”thatwereseenatthesite.

OneofthevalidquestionsoftenaskediswhetherpeopleareconfusingtheAzteccrashwiththeRoswellIncident.Thatquestionwasaddressedintheearlystagesofourresearch.TheyarefactsthatbothstoriesareaboutNewMexico,thatthetimeframeisonlyeightmonthsapart,andthatbothstoriestalkaboutrecoveredflyingsaucersandthesubsequentrecoveryofsmallhuman-likebodies.But,afterwespentyearsdiggingintothestory,wecametotheinescapableconclusionthatAztecwasacompletelyseparateNewMexicoincident.ThefactspresentedinthisbookshowthattheAzteccasestandsonits

Page 36: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

ownbonafides.VirgilwasaregularattheAztecUFOSymposium,andflyingintohishometowngavehimachanceto

comebacktoseeoldfriendsandfamilymembers.Heisstillaprivatepilot,retiredengineer,andagreatoutdoorsman.HeloveshisbiggamehuntsandhikingthemesasinNewMexico.OnoneparticularoccasionwemethiminAugust2008.Hewantedtovisitthecrashsiteandhikearound,aswe(ScottandVirgil)werebothinAztecforonlyafewmoredays.

Afterwalkingaroundandstudyingthecrashsiteforafewhours,wecamebacktotownforaquicklunchattheHiwayGrill,alandmarkforgreatfoodandcoldbeerintheFourCornersarea.WespenthoursrehashingtheAztecstory,SamBass,andwhatthetownofAztecwaslikeinthepost–WWIIdays.Atthetimeofthismeeting,theHiwayGrillalsoincludedpicturesalloverthewallsshowingtheareafromtheearlydaysintothe1960s.ApictureofVirgil’sfatherwasonthewallgreetingcustomersastheyenteredtherestaurant.Therewasanotherphotoshowinghisfatherworkinganoilrig.ThecurrentHiwayGrillisamodificationoftheoriginalHiwayLounge,originallylocatedacrosstheroad.

Wetalkedabouthislongcareerinthemilitaryaswell.Virgilloggedapproximately28yearsinvariousservices.Thisincludesfouryearsatcollegeandseveralyearsinthereserves.Hiscredibilityhasneverbeenquestioned,andhisstoryhasremainedsolidasconcretetothisday.

SearchingforDonaldBassWecombedthrougheverypossibleleadwecouldthinkoftofindDonaldBass.Inthesummerof2003,

whenSuzanneandI(Scott)married,wemovedallherbelongingsfromFarmingtontoMooresville,NorthCarolina.WewerenosoonerunpackedwhenwewereofftoMaxwellAirForceBaseinMontgomery,Alabama,tovisittheAirForceArchivesinordertoresearchRAFWelford,andtobringhomeasmanyrecordsaswecouldcarry.Afterfourlongdaysofresearch,onlyahandfulofdeclassifiedrecordsweremadeavailabletous.

TheUnitedStatesnolongerhasarelationshipwiththeoldNATObase,andthebasehasbeendecommissioned.TherecordsareallatMaxwell,andsotheremustbesecretsstillhidinginthosefiles.

ThesearchforDonaldBasswasaverylongone.Ican’tsaywehavegivenup,butwehavetriedeverythingtofindBass,livingordead.VirgilattendedtheRAFWelfordreunioninNashvilleinOctober2008.Atthereunion,someoftheveteransrememberedDonald,or“Sam,”astheyknewhim,butnoonehadheardfromhimafterhewasshippedofftoVietnam.WeincludeaphotoofDonaldshownonpage56inthisbookforthosewhowanttoseethemysterymanwhoclaimedtohavebeenwitnesstothemostamazingUFOrecoverysinceRoswell.

WehavehadcriticsclaimthatiftherewereaDonaldBass,hewouldhaveshownupontheVietnamMemorialWall.DonaldBassdoesnotshowupontheVietnamMemorialWallorWebsites.TheVietnamVeteransMemorialsitefreelyadmitsthatthe58,300namesofthefallenarenotcompleteandthatnamesareaddedeachyear.Regionalmemorialwallsrelyuponvolunteerstocontributenamesofthosewhodiedinthewarorasaresultofwoundssustainedintheconflict.

Page 37: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

BBQatRAFWelford,1968.Standing(l–r):Donald“Sam”Bass,JimDelaney,ButchMartin,SkipCoates,DavidSiegal,DougHowell.Seated(l–r):Sgt.Lambert,Darwin“Jack”Jackson.

DidDonald“Sam”Bassinfacttalktoomuch?WhywashestillattherankofA/1C(E3)aftersomanyyearsintheAirForce?Whyareheandhisrecordssodifficulttofindafteralltheseyears?

IlocatedaBassfamilywithmanyoffspringinSouthCarolinaandspokewithapersonwhoclaimedtohavebeenhisbrotherinJanuary2006.ThebrothertoldmeallthesiblingshadtakenonthenicknameofthefamousoutlawSamBass.ThebrothersaidthatDonald,“Sam,”hadbeenstationedintheSouthwest—Texas,heremembered—thenhewentontoWalker(AFB),thentoKorea,andtoEnglandbeforefinallyshippingofftoVietnam.

Sadly,Virgil’sworstfearsmayhavebeenrealizedforDonaldBassinSoutheastAsia;thesiblingtoldmehisbrotherhadbeenkilledbyahit-and-rundriveronenightwhilereturningtohisbaseinVietnam.

Page 38: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

4

TheFarmingtonArmadaofMarch1950

“Fullyhalfofthistown’spopulationstilliscertaintodaythatitsawspaceshipsorsomestrangeaircraft—hundredsofthem—zoomingthroughtheskiesyesterday.”

—FarmingtonDailyTimes,March18,19501

ThewindblewanddustswirledthroughthelateSaturdaymorningskiesofFarmington,NewMexico,buttheeyesofthepopulacewereontheskieswhereoneofthegreatestmasssightingsofflyingsaucersinmodernhistoryastoundedthewatchers.AFarmingtonDailyTimesstorysaidthattheirphoneswere“deluged”withreportsoftheobjectsforafullhourafterthe11a.m.sightings.2

Countedbyvariouswitnesses,“dozens”to“hundreds”ofgleamingsilverydiscsracedabovethetownatanaltitudeestimatedat15,000feet.Allofthesaucersweredescribedas“silver”exceptfortheleadingdiscthatwasaglowingred.Thissightingwasthethirdandmostmassiveofthreedaysofmid-daysightingsonMarch16,17,and18,1950,asthediscsflewatfantasticspeedsfromthenortheasttothesouthwest,andthenewspaperemphasizedthatthesehigh-flyingcraftwereonly110milesawayfromLosAlamos,recognizedbyeveryoneasoneofthemostcriticaldefenseestablishmentsintheUnitedStates,wheretheatomicbombwasdeveloped.Onewitnessquotedinthenewspaperestimatedthespeedofonesaucertobeabout1,000mphandasizeapproximatelytwicethatofaB-29.TheBoeingB-29was99feetlongwithawingspanof141feet.

ThoughnoAztecwitnesseswereinterviewedforthestory,thediscswouldprobablyhaveoverflownthattown11milesnortheastofFarmingtonanddirectlyontheirflightpath,whichhasledsomewriterstospeculatethatthisformationcouldhavebeencommemoratingthelostsaucerrecoveredbytheU.S.AirForceonthemesaonHartCanyonRoadinMarch1948.

So,whydidthisstory,frontpagenewsfortheFarmingtonDailyTimesonMarch18,1950,notbecomeanimportantstorynationwide?ThemostlikelyanswercomesfromNewMexicoStatePolicemanAndyAndrews,whoreportedthatthesaucerswereactuallyjustcotton-likefluffthatcottonwoodtreesproduceinthespring.Hisremarkwastailor-madeinanerawhenUFOswereexplainedawayasweatherballoons,balllightning,swampgas,theplanetVenus,andhallucinations.WhatwasnotaddedtoAndrews’spublishedexplanationwasthefactthathehadopenlydiscussedhissightingsofflyingsaucerstwoyearsearlierandhadeventrackedthemduringhispatrols,whichrangedfromFarmingtontoCuba,NewMexico.

TheAndrewsstorycamefromhisquotingseveralFarmingtonresidentswho,inhiswords,asserteditwascottontheysaw.Newspaperreportersfoundthattheseresidents“deniedAndrews’sreport.”

AnumberofresponsiblecitizensinFarmingtonattestedtothedisplay,includingClaytonJ.Boddy,businessmanagerofthenewspaperandformerU.S.ArmyCaptainofEngineers,whowasonBroadwayStreetwhen“allofasuddenInoticedafewmovingobjectshighinthesky.Momentslaterthereappearedwhatseemtobe500ofthem.”Hesaidhecouldnotestimatetheirsizeorspeed,butsaidtheyappearedtobeabout15,000feethigh.

Boddy’saccountwasconfirmedbyJosephC.andFrancisC.Kelloff,grocersfromAntonito,Colorado,whowereinFarmingtontoinspectthesiteofaproposednewstore,aswellasbyBobFoutz

Page 39: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

andJohnBurrellofFarmington.TheKelloffssaidtheobjectsappearedtobeflyinginformation.HaroldF.Thatcher,headoftheFarmingtonunitoftheU.S.SoilConservationService,saidhemadea

triangulationononeofanumberofflyingcraft.HesaidifithadbeenaB-29,itwouldhavebeen20,000feethighandtravelingmorethan1,000milesperhour.

“I’mnotaprofesionalengineer,”Thatcherwasquotedassaying,“butIhaveengineersworkingunderme,andIknowhowtoworkoutaroughtriangulationonanobject.”Thatcheremphaticallydeniedanearlierreport(fromPatrolmanAndrews)thattheobjectscouldhavebeensmallpiecesofcottonfuzzfloatingintheatmosphere.

“Itwasnotcotton,”Thatchersaid.“Isawseveralpiecesofcottonfuzzfloatingaroundintheairatthetime,butIwasnotsightingonanycotton.”

Thatwasnottheendofit.At3p.m.thesameday,Mrs.WilsonJones,27,andMrs.RoyHicks,33,reportedseeingobjectstothenorthofFarmington,flyinginperfectformation.

JohnnyEaton,29,arealestateandinsurancesalesman,andEdwardBrooks,24,anemployeeofPerrySmoak’sGarage,werethefirsttoreportthered-coloredflyingsaucer.Brooks,aB-29tailgunnerduringWWII,saidhewaspositivetheobjectshesawwerenotairplanes.Hewasquotedassaying,“Theverymaneurveringofthethingscouldn’tbethatofmodernaircraft.”

JohnBloomfield,anotheremployeeofSmoak’sGarage,saidthediscshesawflewataspeedabout“10timesfaster”thanthatofjetplanes.Healsosaidtheobjectsfrequentlymaderight-angleturns.“Theyappearedtobecomingateachotherhead-on,”Bloomfieldsaid.“Atthelastsecondonewouldveeratrightanglesupward,theotheratrightanglesdownward.Onesaucerwouldpassanotherandimmediatelytheoneoftherearwouldzoomintothelead.”

ThenewspaperstoryalsoquotedMarloWebb,anothergarageemployee,whosaidthesaucersappearedtobeabout8inchesindiameterasseenfromtheground,takingintoaccountthealtitudesofthesightings.“Theyflewsideways,onedge,andateveryconceivableangle.”Webb’sadditionalstatementwasthattheflightvectorsmadeit“easytodeterminethattheyweresaucer-shaped.”

Noneoftheobserverstoldofanyvaportrailorenginenoise,nordidanyFarmingtonresidentsreportseeingwindowsinthelargecraftoranymarkingsonthesilverysurfaces.

Anotherimportantstatementinthenewspaperheld,“IngeneralFarmingtonacceptedthephenomenoncalmly,althoughitwasreportedsomewomenemployeesofalaundrybecamesomewhatpanicky.”

Inthesiftingoftheirreports,theFarmingtonDailyTimescompiledatimetableofthesightings:

1.10:15a.m.:fivetoninesaucerszoomedoverthetown’sbusinessareafor10minutesbeforemovingoutofsighttothenortheast.

2.10:00a.m.:reportof“hundreds”seenwestoftown.3.10:30a.m.:redsaucersseenovertown.4.10:35a.m.:threeobjectsstaged“dogfight”overtown.5.11:15a.m.:closestviewofalargenumberofsaucers.6.11:30a.m.:alldisappeared.7.3:00p.m.:fleetof“hundreds”seenflyinginformationtothesouthwestfromthenortheast.

So,thesemultiplesightingsofmanyflyingsaucersatmid-daywasfront-pagenewsintheFourCornersarea,andreportsarethatsilverdiscswithaglowing,red-coloredsaucerleadingthemwerealsoseenoverLasVegas,NewMexico,approximately270milessoutheastofFarmington,thatsameday.

TodaytherearestillFarmingtonresidentswhoremembertheFarmingtonArmada.MarloWebbwasayoungmanin1950whoservedintheU.S.NavyduringWWIIandlaterwentintoNavalAviationatGarland,Texas,tolearnhowtoflyintheT-6Texan.Webbwasworkingathisfuturefather-in-law’s

Page 40: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

garagewhenhewitnessedtheflyover.WhenScottinterviewedhim,MarlosaidhewasatthebackofSmoak’sGarage,latertobecomeWebbChevrolet,thatdaywhenheheardcommotionoutside.Whenhewentouttoseewhatallthepeoplewerelookingat,hesawbetween12and15flyingobjectsdartingaroundinthesky.Whenhewentouttoseewhatallthepeoplewerelookingat,hesawbetween12and15flyingobjectsdartingaroundinthesky.3Marlorecalledinourinterviewthatestimatingthealtitudewasverydifficultastherewasnoreferencepointtojudgethedistancefrom.Whenaskedtoguess,hesaidhethoughttheywerearound5,000feetorless.Hedidnotseethelargegroupsofflyingsaucers,estimatedtobehundredsbysomeaccounts,butsaidhisfriendsdidreportthatlaterinthehour,manymorediscsjoinedin.

Marlosaidthatduringtheshorttimehewaswatching,thesaucersseemedtochangedirection.This,hetoldme,ruledoutthattheycouldbesomethingfloatingintheair.Hesaidthattheyfirstcamefromthenorthwest,andthenseemedtochangedirectionandflyagainsttheprevailingwinds.

WhenIaskedMarloifanyoneeverhadcontactedhimfromthemilitaryortheU.S.government,herepliedthatindeedseveraldifferentagencies(hedidnotsaywhich)contactedhimthenightofthesightingandoverthenextfewdays,tellinghimthattheywantedhisthoughtsastowhathehadobserved.Herecalledtheywereallverynice,veryprofessional,andneverthreateninginanyway.Basically,hesaidtheyjustwantedhisversionofwhathesaw.

ScotthadtheopportunitytomeetClaytonBoddy,asScotthadreadtheoriginalnewspaperstory.WeneverhadtheopportunitytointerviewhimabouttheArmadabeforehispassing.ClaytonwasthebusinessmanagerattheFarmingtonDailyTimeswhenhewitnessedtheflyingsaucers.HisgranddaughterShawna,aswellasotherfamilymembers,wereveryfamiliarwithhisexperience.Ashedescribedtothem,hewasinvitedtosharehissightingatFarmington’sKVBSradiostation.WhenBoddyarrivedatthestation,thestaffapologizedandexplainedthattheywouldnotbeabletointerviewhim.Whenheaskedwhy,theyrepliedthattheyhadreceivedacallfromthemilitaryadvisingthemnottodotheinterview.Formanyyearsafterleavingtheradiostation,hechosetoonlyspeaktofamilymembersaboutthesighting.Shawnatoldusshewasalwaysamazedatthestoryhergrandfathertoldonmorethanoneoccasion.

TheironyofthisstorylieswithAndyAndrews,thehighwaypatrolofficerwhoexperiencedmorethanoneflyingsaucersightingin1948,whenheandManuelSandovalfollowedluminousdiscswhiletheypatrolledthelonelyroadsfromCubatoFarmingtonatnight.InMarch1950,AndrewswastheloudestvoicewritingofftheFarmingtonArmadabycallingtheflyingobjects“cottonballs”fromthebloomingcottonwoodtrees.HisentireflyingsaucermemoriesseemedtohavechangedorbeenalteredinthetwoyearssincetheAztecIncident.TherewasalwaysthepossibilitythatAndrews’sdismissalofFarmingtonwasencouragedbyothersources,andcertainlyhispublishedquoteexplainingawaythearmadawaswhatstuckinthemediareportsoftheday.

Page 41: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

5

DidCahnContheCons?

“IthensoldthestorytoHolt,andthebook’ssubsequentsuccessseeminglyhasconsumedthemagazineeditorwithfrustrationandenvy,andthesortofindigestionthatcomesfromhavingtoeatoldcrow.”

—FrankScully,19631

ThestoryoftheAztecIncidenthasmoretwistsandturnsthanabagofpretzels.Justwhenyouthinkyouhavethestoryfiguredout,wewillthrowanotherchapterlikethisoneatyouthatwillprobablymakeyougobackandstartthebookallover.Thisisnotourintention;itisjustthewaythestoryunfolds.(Justthinkwhatitwasliketryingtoputallthepiecesofthispuzzletogetheroverthepastthreedecades!)Withthatsaid,letusintroduceanothercharacterintotheAztecdrama:J.P.Cahn.

Cahn,aCaliforniaauthorandjournalist,wenttoextrememeasurestodiscreditFrankScully’sbookandespeciallytwoofScully’smajorsources.CahnwroteformanymediaoutletsinhislifetimeandwasasuccessfulwriterofOldWestnovelsthatcenteredaroundtheSouthwestandearlyCalifornia.HispennamewasJohnKenner.I(Scott)havebrieflyreadsomeofhisworktryingtogetasenseofhiswritingstyleandtocontrastittohisnon-fictionwork.SomeofhiswritingincludesTrueTalesoftheRealCharactersoftheOldWest,TheManWhoInventedtheStageCoachHoldUp,andMoreNewTrueTalesoftheOldWest.

Thelast-knownphotoofJ.P.Cahnbeforehisdeath.

JohnP.CahnwasanonlychildofwealthyparentsinnorthernCalifornia;heneverhadtoworkadayinhislifebecauseofhisinheritedwealth.HisfamilyclaimedthatJ.P.Cahn’sgrandmotherwasthefirstCaucasianwomanborninCaliforniaatthetimeoftheGoldRush.

Earlyinlife,Cahndevelopedapassionforwriting.HisinterestintheWildWestandtheearlydaysofCaliforniadrewhimintoconversationswithfellowjournalists,but,despitethis,hewasconsidereda

Page 42: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

“loner”byhisfriends,asCahnkepttohimselfunlessstimulatedbyaninterestingwritingprojectthatrequiredcollaboration.

Bythelate1940s,CahnhadjoinedotherAmericansinapassiontoexploretheenigmaoftheflyingsaucers.Hethought,asmanydid,thattheflyingsaucerstorywasthehottesttopicbeingdiscussedinthemassmediaandthattherealstorywasnotbeingtoldtothepublic.Californiawasahotbedofflyingsaucersightings,andCahnseemedtovisualizehimselfasdiscoveringthetruthandtellingittoAmerica.

CahnjoinedtheSanFranciscoChronicleinthelate1940safterabriefstintasapilotintheArmyAirCorps.HearrivedonstaffafewyearsafterScottNewhall.NewhallwasalsothesonofawealthyfamilyandNewhall,California,isthefamilynamesake.TheNewhallfamilywealthcamefromrealestateandasuccessfulmercantilebusiness,astoryremarkablysimilartothatoftheCahnfamily.NewhallpersuadedCahntojointhepaper,anditissufficienttosaythatneithermanhadtoworktosupporthimself.ThetwohadbigplansfortheSanFranciscoChronicleasthepaperwasfightingtheSanFranciscoExaminerfordominantmarketshareintheNorthernBayArea.Thereportersworkedhardtomaintainthetopspot.

“Thetwowerealsoaverygoodteam,”accordingtoRobertMcClay.2McClaywasCahn’sbestand,sadly,onlyfriendwhenCahndiedafewyearsago.Thetwoworkedtogetherforyearsandwerethebestoffriends.McClaydidillustrationsandpromotionalartfortheChronicle,andCahnactuallybeganhiscareerattheChronicleasanadvertisingcopywriter.Newhall,whohadcometothepaperasasummerreplacementphotographerin1934,wasinstrumentalinbringingthenewspapertoprominencethroughthehiringoftalentedpeopleinsucceedingyears.These,accordingtoMcClay,weretheheydaysoftheSanFranciscoChronicle.

Newhallalsohadaflairforshakingthingsupwhenitcametowritingandpublishing.McClayrecalledthat,whenabookbyalocalwriterwaspublishedaboutmadamsandbrothelsofSanFrancisco,Newhallwasfirsttodecidetowriteafeaturearticleonthebook.Needlesstosay,itnotonlyshookthingsup,butitcausedsmallearthquakesforafewpoliticians.

FortheSanFranciscoChronicleitwasaneweraofreportingnews.Thestableincludedwriterswithanewstyle,suchasauthorPierreSalinger,whobrokemanypoliticalstories;writerPaulinePhillips,whowaspermanentlyendearedtoAmericawithher“DearAbby”column;andlater,inthe1960s,staffwriterPaulAvery,whowasgo-betweenfortheenigmaticciphersandlettersfromthenotoriousZodiacKiller,whoseidentityhasstillnotbeenconclusivelyproven.

J.P.CahnfirstapproachedScullyin1949whenCahngotwindofScully’sleadonaflyingsaucerstory.Atthattimeheofferedtobuyitbutwastoldthestorywasnotforsale.Cahn,whoapparentlyhadalreadyconvincedhisfriendNewhallandPaulC.Smith,theeditorandgeneralmanagerofthepaper,thatCahn“alreadyhadthestoryinthebag.”3

Atthatpointintheresearch,weneededtoassemblethehistoricaljigsawpuzzleandlookatbothFrankScully’sstoryandthenCahn’sversion.ThefirstpieceisScully’sletter,datedJune15,1952,butnotsenttoattorneyA.BrighamRose,whorepresentedSilasM.NewtonuntilSeptember20,1952.4

PrivateandConfidentialForwardedto:A.BrighamRose,AttorneyforSilasM.NewtonSeptember20,1952MemoonJ.P.CahnJune15,1952ByFrankScully

OnFebruary22,1951,J.P.Cahn,anunemployednewspapermanfromSanFrancisco,cametomyhomeat2071GraceAvenue,Hollywood,28,California,claiminghewasafriendofAbeMellinkoff,cityeditoroftheChronicle,andaclassmateatStanfordofShermanMellinkoff.He

Page 43: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

askedifhemightdosomeresearchundermydirectiononanynewleadsthatmightdevelopconcerningflyingsaucers.HewassuretheSanFranciscoChronicle,wherehehadbeenpreviouslyemployed,wouldcarryexpensesupto$1,200forsixweeksinreturnforthefirstcrackatwhatevermaterialmightbeunearthed.Hewasevensurertherewasafortuneinitandhewasmostanxioustogetapieceofit.

Ilistenedandsaidnothingencouragingordiscouraging.FormyselfIfeltIhadexhaustedthesubjectofflyingsaucersandinanyeventthesubjecthadexhaustedme.Hecameinafewtimes,wasinvitedforlunchandoncecameatteatime.

AtourhouseCahnmetSilasNewton,anoilmanfreelyquotedin“BehindtheFlyingSaucers.”Niether[sic]ofus,however,hadeverseenasaucer,hadanyhallucinationswehadseenone.Norhadwejoinedanymasshysteriaconcerningtheenigma.

WhenCahnfoundthatNewtonmadefrequenttripstoSanFrancisco,whereasImindedmovingfromonechairtoanother,hedroppedmelikeadeadfishandlatchedontoNewton.

Ididn’tseeCahnafterthatformonths.Ididn’tseemuchofNewtoneither,becausehewasworkingoutapetroleumstoragedefenseprojectandspentmostofhistimebetweenWashingtonandSanFrancisco.

ThenexttimeIsawCahnwasJune11,1951,whenhebargedintomyhomecarryingabriefcase.Inthebriefcasewasadossier.ThecontentsheassuredmewouldproveIwasdupedoftheslickestbunchofconfidencementhatthecountryhasseeninyears.Theywereusingmeandmybooktobuildupsuckerlistsandthensellingthemthesesuckersdubiousoilstocks.Theirarrestwasonlyamatterofdays.HiseditorsthoughtIshouldbeinformedoftheserevoltingdevelopmentsandifIwouldcooperatewiththemandwritetheexposeundermynametheywouldseeIwasamplyrepaidforyelling“copper”onmysauceriansources.IfIwouldn’t,theyofcoursewouldhavenoalternativethentoassumeIwaspartytotheseillegalpractices[sic].Inbrief,hewasalsotryingoutblackmailonme,forsize.

AllthiswassocompletelyinthesyndromeofstampedeconfessionsfrombehindtheironcurtainthatIwonderedifCahnandtheChroniclewerenotpractisingtotakeoverthefunctionsofasecretpolice,ifandwhentheConstitutionwereabolishedandapolice-statepencilledintosucceedit.

IcalledAliceScully[Frank’swife]intotheofficeandhadCahngooverhischargesinherpresence.

AtthispointCahnconfessedsomethingofhimself.Heconfessedhewasacrimereporter.Infactheevenconfessedthathehadgoneinforsomelarcenytostrengthenhiscase.HesaidhestoleasmalldiscpresumablyinNewton’scollectionofsaucerianmementosandhadsubstitutedaslugwhenreturningthecollectiontoNewton.Heshowedmeaphotographofthefilcheddiscnexttoanickel.Whetherthisisintherealmsofpettyorgrandlarcenywouldhavetobedeterminedbyacourtskilledinappraisingsuchcuriosa.

CahnnextwentontoexposeDr.Gee,acompositeofscientistsIhadcreatedoutofseveralwhohadtoldmethemostsensationalphasesoftheflyingsaucerstory.HeaskedmeifIknewDr.GebauerandgavehisaddressinPhoenix.ItoldCahnIcertainlydid.HesaidthatNewtonhadtoldhimthatDr.GebauerwasDr.Geeandifhe[Cahn]gotGebauerhimselfnotonlytoadmithewasDr.Gee,buttoadmithehadbeenanobodyinthedefensesetupinthelastwarandhadconcoctedhissensationalsaucerstoryoutofhisownhead,wouldIthencollaborateontheChronicle’sexposeandwritetheir“IhaveBeenDupedStory”fromthematerialsuppliedbythemandCahn.Ifwewouldtherewasatleast$25,000init.Wetoldhimthatifhehadproofwhichsatisfiedourminds,notmerelyhisortheChronicle’s,itwouldthenbetimetodiscussthenext

Page 44: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

stepinthesaucerstory.HesaidhewouldprovethatGebauerandNewtonhadbeenworkingtheconfidenceracketforyearsandinafewdayswouldhaveaconfessionfromGebauerandallthiswastrueandthatthewholesaucerstorywasahoaxofhismaking.HewassurethatIbeingamanofhonorwouldseeIowedittothethousandsofreadersof“BehindtheFlyingSaucers”toprotectthemfromfurthervictimizationofthiswellplottedfraud.

ItoldhimifhecouldprovethatDr.GeewasGebauerandthatDr.GebauerwasanobodyinthefieldofGeophysicalandmagneticresearchandhadneverhadastatusinthegovernmentdefensesetup,Cahnhardlyneededmetoprovehiscase.ButheinsistedthathedidneedmyhelpandassuredmetheChroniclewouldpaymehandsomelyforthetask.Hesaidthey’dguaranteeatleast$25,000plusasyndicatedpercentage.IthentoldhimifitweretrueIwouldwriteitfornothing;ifitweren’ttrue,moneycouldn’tbuyit.

Aliceaskedhowwouldthefactofflyingsaucers,trueorfalse,hangontoDr.Gee?JustbecauseMr.NewtonoranybodyelsemayormaynotbewhatIsaidtheywere,wouldthat,toinstanceAdamski’spictures[as]lies?

SubsequentlyCahngot“aconfession”fromDr.Gebauer.Dr.Gebauerdidn’tadmithewasDr.Gee,however.Infacthedeniedit.ThatleftCahnholdingthebag,butactedasifitwasjustwhathewantedmostintheworld.Healso“proved”GebauerwasanobodybyquotingtheBetterBusinessBureau.Theirrecordsindicatedthat[Gebauer]hadbeendirectoroftheAirResearchLaboratoriesinPhoenixandL.A.[LosAngeles]fortwoyearsduringthewarandhadgotadoctor’sdegreeinengineeringfromtheUniversityofCaliforniaofLosAngelesin1946.Didtheygivedoctor’sdegreestonobodies?

AsNewtonwasinWashingtoncompletingthedetailsofadefenseprojectwhenCahnwasexposinghiminHollywood,andflewfromWashingtontoDenverbeforeIcouldcontacthim,Ihadnowayofgettingintouchwithhimforseveraldays.WhenIdidandconfrontedhimwiththeChronicle’sdossierheblewhistopandhadtoberestrainedfromsettlingthisscurrilouspieceoftypographicalcharacter-assassinationinawaythatdiedoutwith“DuelInTheSun.”Amanenjoyingahighreputationinhisfield,hiscompanyownedwellsandleasesinColorado,Wyoming,Californiaandelsewhere.

HeexplainedthatdayafterdaywhilehewasinSanFranciscohewaspesteredbyCahnwhoobviouslyhadsoldtheChronicleabillofgoodsandhadgotbackonthepayroll.NewtonwasimportunedbyCahntovisittheeditors.NewtontoldusthathenevermadeonephonecalltoCahnortheChronicle.Hesaidhewastherecipientofdozens.

Cahnetalbegantobuildagreatstory.Firsttheywouldwriteapuffingpersonality-storyaroundNewton,praisinghimtotheskies.ThiswouldlaunchtheirgreatSaucerianstory.Newtonsaidherefusedtopermitthis.Hewasurgedtocontacthissourcesamongmagneticscientistsandseeiftheyfelttheycouldtakeachanceonrevealingtheirmaterial.IfitsatisfiedtheChronicle’sstandardsofproofthepaperwouldpay$25,000to$35,000andguaranteetoprotecttheiridentity.Newtonsaidhewouldsubmitthispropositiontothesemenathisfirstopportunity.That’sallhecoulddo.Theymightormightnotacceptsuchanoffer.

Newtontoldthemhehadsomeleadshimselfbutinthepressureofbusinesshehadnotbeenabletorunthemdown.Oneparticularlyintriguedhim.Itconcernedagroundedcigar-shapedsaucer.AfterhecleaneduphisbusinessinWashingtonhehopedtorundownthisrumor,andwouldletthemknowifhewassuccessful.Ifnottheywouldnothearfromhim.Heleftthemwiththat.

Whethertheysignedthescientistsornot,theChroniclewantedNewtontoassurethemoffirstcrackatthisstory.Newton’sconcernifitweretherealthingwashowcouldhegetthegrounded

Page 45: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

objectoutoftheMississippiswampsandestablishtitletoit.TheChronicleeditorsweresuretheyhadenoughinfluencetoprotecthisrightsinthismatter.

Theeditorspleadedwithhimthatthewholeprojecthadtobecleareduponewayoranothersoon,beforeEditor-in-ChiefPaulSmithgotbackfromaworldtour,becauseifitweren’the’dwashtheprojectupandrefusetowasteanymoremoneyonit.ThatwasthelastNewtonsawofthem,ashespentthenextfiveweeksinWashington.

TheweeksgoingbyandnothingcomingofallthehopesofthekillingbyCahnetal,theywentfromhighhopestoblackdespair.Theyrealizedthattheyhadtoturninsomestory,andsofromglorifyingNewtonastheGrandSachemofSaucerstheyproceededtolookformudtothrowathim,atDr.Gebauer,atme,andsoconvincetheChronicletopechelonthattheyweregoodreportersafterall.Whiletheydidn’tgetthestorythe[y]startedouttoget,theyhadgotajpmeu[gem?]ofanexpose,theyweretellingmeaswellasothersandhadevensavedthepaperfromtheembarrassmentofbuildingupguyswhowerephoney[sic]asathree-dollarbill.Inotherwords,theCahnformulawas;puffthemuporstinkthemup,butgetastoryorgetfired.

CahnsoughttogetmenottotellNewtonofthesedevelopmentsuntiltheywereingallery-proofs,whentheywouldconfronthimwiththechargesandgivehimachancetoclearhimselforcorrectanyerrorsbeforeprintingthem.

Inafinaldesperateefforttosavehiscrazycrumblinghouseofhate,CahnwantedNewtontosignastatementthathetoldmethewholeflyingstorywasahoaxtwoyearsago,butthatIwentaheadandprintedthestoryanyway.ThiswaytheChroniclewouldletNewtonoffthehookandhangmeonit.Thatonedidn’tgetthefirstbaseeither.

Thisviciouscirclehadnowgonetocriminalifnotpsychopathiclengths.WhenoneunderstandsthatCahn’sdrivingmotivewastomakeafastfortuneandthusgetoutofthewageslaveclassovernight,itiseasiertounderstandhisreversal,oncehisCaesarianambitionswerethwarted.Heabusedmyhomeandhospitality.Hesoughttodestroyacircleoffriendswhohadknownandtrustedeachotherforyears.Hethrewscandalaroundlikeconfetti.Hecookeduplibelsbythedozen.Heprovedhimselfalouseintheblouseofjournalism,adangerousmaninAmerica,thoughpossibilitynotwithoutvalueifshippedabroadandhandedtheroleofagentprovocateurtosomeunfriendlyforeignpower.

Alegalinjunctionagainstthissortofreputation-wreckingbyamoney-hungryratgnawingonthehemofjournalismoughttobeissuedinthepublicinterest.”

FRANKSCULLY

BecausetheAztecIncidentstudentsdidverylittleresearchonCahn,hisstoryhasalwaysbeentakenatfacevalue.

InCahn’sversion,hetellsofapproachingScullywithanofferof$25,000forownershipoftheentireAztecstory,includingnames,interviews,andsoforth.CahnclaimsthatScullyagreedtothis,andCahnsaidthathewentbacktoSanFrancisco,andtoldNewhallthattheexclusivesaucerstorywasnow“theirs”andthatScullyhadagreedtoallterms.NewhallwasacopyeditorthatreportedtoPaulC.Smith,editorandgeneralmanageroftheChronicle.CahnthensaidthatScullybackedouttoleavehimholdingtheproverbialemptybag.Asthestorygoes,Newhallwasunderstanding,butCahnremainedfeelingfoolishathavingjusttoldhisbossthathewaslandingoneofthebiggeststoriesintheChronicle’shistory,ifnotallofhistory,butthattheprizehadslippedthroughhisfingers.

Cahn,whohadlefttheChronicletoworkfreelancebythattime,wasobviouslyupset.Heseemedtoseehimselfwitheggonhisface,andforawealthyfamily’sscion,notgettinghiswaymusthavebeen

Page 46: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

upsetting.SoCahnconstructedabetterwaytogetbackatScully,andhedecidedtolaunchafull-scaleattackonthestoryScullyhaddeniedhim.AfterBehindtheFlyingSaucershitthemarketwithnationalimpact,Cahn’sfirstprioritywastolookcloselyatthesourcesScullyhadrelieduponforthebasicfactsoftheAztecstoryandtoseektodestroyScully’sstoryfromwithin.

NowforalookatScully’sversionofthestory5:ScullywrotethatCahnofferedhimverylittlemoney,andtheofferwasfartoolate,asScullywasalreadysettopublishhisworkwithHenryHoltandCompany.ScullystatesthatheneverhadadealwithCahnandthathenevercametoanybusinessarrangement.WhyindeedwouldScullyevenconsidersellingastorylikethisone?Scullyhadalreadywrittentwoarticlesonflyingsaucersformagazines,sohehadnationalexposureonthestoryalready.CahnclaimedhehadofferedScully$25,000forthestory,butScullysaysitwasactually$3,000,witha$1,000advancethatwasnegotiateddownto$12.56forexpenses.

J.P.CahnlettertoFrankScully,April13,1951.

Page 47: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

J.P.CahnletterfromTheChronicle,June16,1951.

HavingsummarizedthetwoversionsofthebackgroundtoCahn’sdiscontent,nowthestoryaboutCahn’sdestructionofScully’sbookontheAztecflyingsaucerstoryunfolds.Scully’sbookwasreleasedinSeptember1950andwassellingverywell.Cahnwasstillsmartingwithdiscontentfromonlymonthsbefore,whenhestillthoughthehadashottoowntheflyingsaucerstory.

Page 48: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

AliceScully’sresponsetoCahn(notsent),June20,1951.

ItseemsapparentthatwhenCahnfailedtopurchaserightstothestory,hecouldatleastbegindestroyingScully’sinformants.CahnlatersaidthattheSanFranciscoChroniclewaspreparedtooffer$25,000toScullytowritean“IHaveBeenDuped”story.ScullyreportedlaterintheletterdeliveredtoNewton’sattorneythathetoldCahnthat“ifitweretrue”he(Scully)“wouldwriteitfornothing;ifitweren’ttrue,moneycouldn’tbuyit.”

Cahndecidedtogoitalone,andhesubmittedhismaterialtothepaperoutliningtheproposedarticle.TheChroniclecamebackwitha“nothanks.”Cahn,whohadalreadyleftthepapertopursuehisfreelancingcareer—butwhostillhadadesk,ifnotajob,attheChronicle,thankstohisfriendshipwithNewhall—decidedtoshopthestorytoanyonewhomighthaveaninterest.Afterall,flyingsaucerswerestillbiginthenews.

Unbeknownsttothetarget,Cahn’sfirstattackwasabouttohitSilasNewton,amanwementionedpreviouslyinthebookandwhohadintroducedScullytooneofthemennamed“Dr.Gee.”NewtonwaspresidentofNewtonOilCompanyofColorado,withofficesanywhereoilcouldbefound,accordingtoFBIreportsintroducedinaColoradocourt.6Newtonhadacolorfulpast,asmostoilmenofthateradid,especiallywhenitcametoraisingmoneyforhisoilventures.

Theraisingofcapitalthen,andinsomecasestoday,goessomethinglikethis:Find30investorstoeachput$10,000intoanoilwelllocationwheredrillinghasnotbegun.Theentrepreneurthenusesthe$300,000fromall30investors,drillsawellthatmaycostabout$10,000todrill.Ifthedrillhitsoil,everyonemakesmoney.Ifbychanceyouhitadrywell,youstillhave$290,000investmentmoneytokeepdrilling,whichiswhathappensinmostcases.Eventually,theoilmanwillstrikeblackgold,andNewtonwasfamousforfindingoil.Whenseveralwellsareproducingtensofthousandsofdollars,those30

Page 49: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

investorsshouldbeveryhappy.EnterColoradobusinessmanHermanFlader,whowasoneofSilasNewton’sbiggerinvestors.Flader

hadfrontedalotofmoneyintoNewton’soperation,andCahnwaseagertointerviewhim.Newtonusedahigh-techdevicetodemonstratetohisprospectiveclientsthathecouldfindoilanywhereandthatthisdevicewasunderNewton’scontrolandnobodyelse’s.

FladertestifiedincourtdocumentsthatNewtonclaimedthisoil-findingdevicewasderivedfromWorldWarIItechnologythat“Dr.Gee”hadworkedon,anditcouldfindoil,water,andanythingelseunderthesurface.FladertestifiedthatNewton’sclaimsaboutthedevicepersuadedhimtoinvestasizeablesumofmoneyinthisproject.

CahndescendedonFladerandtoldtheharriedbusinessman,“Youwillneverseeanickelofyourinvestmentbecauseyou,myfriend,havebeenthevictimofaconartist.”7FladerbecameagitatedduringtheensuingweeksaftermeetingwithCahn,andheagreedthatmaybetheFBIshouldlookintothis.

Whynot?CahnhadalreadyalertedtheFBIthatSilasNewtonwastheonewholeakedthestoryaboutTopSecretprojectstoFrankScully,andCahnhadwrittenalettertoFBIDirectorJ.EdgarHooveronApril25,1951.HooverrespondedtoCahn,inaletterdatedMay3,1951,thattheSanFranciscoofficeoftheFBIwas“todetermineifNewtonisviolatingFederalStatutesinclaimingtobeengagedingovernmentresearchofasecretnatureorintheperpetrationofahoaxorswindleoflargeproportions.”8

Cahnwasrevealinghowangryhereallywasforlosingtheflyingsaucerstory.WhenweaskedtheFBItoreleaseSilasNewton’sfile(FBIFilenumber100-383029),itbecameapparenthowupsetCahnreallywas.TheFBImayhavebeenconfusedtosaytheleast.Inadditiontothe289pagestheFBIreleasedtous,therewerestill100-pluspagesstillnot“releasable,”accordingtopaperworkwereceived.

InreadingtheacquiredFBIdocumentsseveraltimesoveraperiodoffouryears,itbecameapparentthatnotonlywasCahnprovokingtheFBIintoaninvestigationofNewton,buthewasalsospoon-feedingtheminformationabouttheoilman.DocumentsshowthatCahnwasusingFladertosupplyhimwithincriminatinginformation.

ItwasalsointerestingtofindtheFBIalreadyhadafileonNewtonbeforeCahnhadgonetothem;itlooksasthoughtheyhaddoneanextensivebackgroundcheckonNewtonatthebeginningofWorldWarII.WasNewton,asheclaimed,amanwhohadworkedon“secretgovernmentresearch,”asstatedinalettertoHooverfromCahn?

ThefilesdatedFebruary18,1941,throughNovember28,1941,showthatNewYorkCity;Denver,Colorado;KansasCity,Missouri;andLosAngelesFBIofficesreportedthatSilasNewtonhadaverysubstantialincome,goodcharacter,goodhabits,andnorecordoflawsuit,collections,orbankruptcy;bothofhiscompanieswerereputableconcerns,andtherewasnoindicationofespionageactivities.ThereportsmentionaSeptember7,1938,possiblemailfraudviolationonNewton,butshoweditresolvedor“setout”bytheBureau.Onereportstatesthat“Newtonisamanofgoodmeans,notengagedinforeignactivitiesofanytype,playsgolf,highlyregardedbyallwhocomeincontactwithhim,hiscompanieshaveassetsandcapitalof$2million,hasmadenodisloyalorun-Americanstatements,hasnoaccentinhisspeech,displayedagreatinterestinthelastPresidentialelection,andisinfavoroftheRepublicanpresidentialcandidate.”9

IncomparingNewton’sfilewithothersfromthattime,itcertainlylooksasthoughtheFBIwasdoingabackgroundinvestigationonsomeonewhowasbeingconsideredforsomethingthatrequiredathoroughbackgroundcheck,possiblyforthewareffort.TheFBIfilewasinactiveuntilCahnsenthislettertoJ.EdgarHoover,andthenthingsstartedtochange.

Thetidestartedtoflow,andflowinacompletelyhostiledirection.OncetheFBIstartedtolookintothefactthatNewtonwasmentionedasasourceforFrankScully’sbookBehindtheFlyingSaucers,theFBIwordinginNewton’sfilebecamemoresinister.Hewasnolongerthegreatpatriot,asdescribed

Page 50: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

before.Inthemeantime,whilesendingletterstoHooveraboutSilasNewton,CahnwascontactingFrank

Scullyandquestioninghimregardinghissourcesforthebook.ScullywasalittleskepticalaboutCahnafterhavingthego-aroundwiththeSanFranciscoChronicle.

Onhisown,CahndecidedtomeetwithNewtoninordertoexaminetheartifactsofthecrashedorlandedflyingsaucerthatNewtonclaimedtohaveinhispossession.DuringameetingwithNewton,CahnwasshownsmallcircularpiecesofaluminumthatNewtonclaimedwerefromtheAztecflyingsaucer.Cahnexaminedthepiecesand,inhissecondmeeting,withaquicksleightofhand,hepalmedpiecesofaluminumandsubstitutedthemwithaplacebo.Later,Cahnclaimedthatthesampleshe“stole”(hisword)fromNewtonweresenttoalaboratory,andtheycamebackasstandardhouseholdaluminumfromwhichpotsandpansaremade.

Scully’sPageantarticleafterwardclearlystatesthatthe“con”wasonCahn.Scullywrotethatthey—Newtonandothers—didnottrustCahnfromthebeginningandallowedhimtakethehouseholdaluminumjusttolaughwhenCahnspenttimeandmoneytohavethepiecesanalyzed.TheirgoalwastodiscreditCahninatit-for-tatforwhatthewriterattemptedtodotoScully.

So,therearemorethantwosidestothisstory.Cahnwastryingtoconthecons,andheendedupgettingthelowcardwhenthedeckwascut.Scullywonthisargumentbecausethepublicwasinformedaboutthegame(1951)beforeCahnwrotehisdamaging1952articleinTrueMagazine.

Meanwhile,backtotheFBIfiles.CahnrevealedhimselftobetryingtopersuadeHooverandfieldagentLaddthatNewtonwasuptonogoodandthattheyneededtodosomethingwithhim.ThenaproblemarosewiththeFBI:TheofficesinPhoenix,Arizona,Denver,SaltLakeCity,andAlbuquerque—allstatesinwhichNewtondoesbusiness—couldnotfindafederaljudgetoentertainafederalcriminalcase.FourjudgescamebacktotheFBIagentsandtoldthemthatthiswasacivilcase,notacriminalcase.HermanFladerhadfiledacriminalcomplaintagainstNewton,buttryingtogetajudgetoexecutethecomplaintwasdifficult.Afterall,FladerandthegroupofinvestorsweregettingroyaltychecksfromNewtoneverymonth.Despitethechecks,Fladerseemedconvinced,throughCahn,thathismoneywastakenthroughtheuseofaphonyoil-findingdevice,oneofthosemachinesknownatthetimeasadoodlebug.Withfourfederaljudgesnotwantingtohearthecase,Flader’sattorneywenttoamagistrateinDenvertoprosecutehiscaselocally.

WilliamSteinmanmentionsthisaspectoftheFlader/NewtoncaseinhisbookUFOCrashatAztec,andIalwaysthoughtthatthiswasacriticaltwistintheNewtoncase.Finally,aDenvermagistratedecidedthatchargescouldbebroughtagainstNewtonandhisassociateLeoGeBauer,wholivedinPhoenix.ChargesagainstNewtonandGeBauerwerefiledonOctober10,1952,whileFBIagentswerestillscratchingtheirheads.Moreimportantly,thecredibilityofScully’sAztecsaucerstoryhungprecariouslyinthebalance.

Theinitialchargewas“interstatetransportationofstolenproperty,”whichwasdefinedasSilasNewtontransportingHermanFlader’spersonalcheckacrossstatelinestoCaliforniatodepositintohisbankaccount.ThisbecomesFBIdocument87-18780-4,datedOctober18,1952.

Thenextchargeswerefor“worthlessmachinery,”meaningthedevicethatNewtonshowedHermanFladerwasnotapieceofaTopSecretmachinebutmerelyanoilfield–detectiondevice,theaforementioneddoodlebug.Whatwefoundveryinterestingduringallofthiswasthefactthatthefourfederaljudgesfromfourdifferentstateswereveryconfusedbythefactthatalltheinvestors,includingthecomplainantHermanFlader,weregettingroyaltycheckswhilethiswasgoingon!

PerhapsthechargeswerefiledbecauseFladerandhissonwereprominentintheDenverbusinesscommunity,andalocaljudgethoughtitinhisinterestorthatofthecommunitytohelpoutthehometownbusinessman.

Page 51: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

TheprosecutionofSilasNewtonandLeoGeBauerwasoneoftheinexplicableeventsthatpuzzledus.Fordecades,thestoryofNewtonandGeBauerwasalwaystoldsomethinglikethis:FrankScully’sstorywasgoingalonggreatuntilatopshelfjournalistbythenameofJ.P.Cahnbrokethebigstoryofabunchofconmenwhohadrobbedpoorinvestorsoutoftheirlifesavingsinaworthlessoilschemesothattheyweredestituteandstandinginbreadlines.ThankGodforJ.P.Cahn;hesavedthedaybyexposingtheseconmen,whoweretakinginmoneyandneverpayingadimeback.Thesehorribleconmenwerearrestedandsentofftojail,andtheAztecstorywasnothingmorethanafictionconcoctedbyabunchofbadandnastycrooks.

Cahnhadmanymonthstoshopthisstoryaround,becauseNewhallandSmithwantednothingmoretodowithflyingsaucers.CahnnowhadtheFBIinvestigatingNewtonandhisfriendLeoGeBauer,andbecausethesetwohadintroducedScullytoagovernmentresearchscientist,theywereundertheFBImicroscope.CahnonlyhadtowaitfortheothershoetofalltocompletehisdiscreditingofScully’sbook.

The“shoe”finallydroppedonOct.18,1952,whentheFBIarrestedGeBauerinPhoenixandNewtonwastakenintocustodyinLosAngeles,onchargesoftheinterstatetransportationofstolenpropertyforNewtonandchargesofworthlessmachineryagainstGeBauerforsupposedlysellingthesupposedTopSecrettechnologytoHermanFlader,whoinvestedmoneyintheNewtonOilCompanyandintheoilfindingdeviceordoodlebugequipmentthatNewtonhadshownhim.

AstheFBIbegantobuilditscourtcaseagainstNewtonandGeBauer,theprosecutorsweregettingnervous.With32or33investorsinvestingwithSilasNewton(courtrecordslistboth32and33)noneexceptHermanFladerwasupsetwithhisinvestment.ThisisbroughtoutinboththeFBIfilesandthecourtrecordsleadinguptothetrial.ThisiswhytheFBIhadproblemsfindingafederaljudgetoexecutethearrestwarrantsinthefirstplace.SoDistrictAttorneyBertM.Keatingfiledamotionexpresslystatingthattheotherinvestorswouldnotbeallowedtotestify.

ThetrialstartedonNovember10,1953,butwasdelayeduntilNovember20,andproceedingslasteduntilTuesday,December29,1953,whenSilasNewtonandLeoGeBauerwerefoundguiltyoffraud.ThetrialwasdelayedforaweekwhileGeBauerwastreatedforableedingulcer.AccordingtoanarticlewrittenbyFrankScullyabouttheevent,“Mr.NewtonwashandcuffedtoayoungprisonerandwastransportedfromLosAngelestoDenverandjailed,withoutevenbeingbooked;andafterhehadbeenfoundguilty,[he]wasneverfinednorsentenced.”10

BasedonSteinman’sresearch,andthecourtrecords,itisimportanttolookathowthiscasewasprosecuted.

OnOctober14,1952,theDenverdistrictattorney’sofficenotifiedallpolicedepartmentsintheWesternstatesthatan“allpointsbulletin”hadbeenputoutforbothNewtonandGeBauer.Thiswasextraordinary,aseveryone,includingtheFBI,knewexactlywheretheywere.Laterintheday,theFBIreceivedthewrittenauthorizationfortheUnitedStatesattorneygeneral’sofficetofilefederalchargesagainstNewtonandGeBauer.ThatwasthenightGeBauerandNewtonwerearrestedinPhoenixandHollywood,respectively.Duringthemanypostponedtrialdates,NewtonandGeBauerwereoutonbail.Newtoncontinuedrunninghisoilempire,andGeBauerwasdemonstratinghisoil-detectiondeviceseeminglywithoutworryaboutthependingtrial.Whynot?Accordingtomostsources,thedetectiondevicehehaddemonstratedwasworkingverywell,andwestillseeexamplesofdevices(metaldetectorsandsoforth)intelevisioncommercials.Evenasthisbookwasbeingwritten,MobilExxonproducedaTVadcampaignthatshowshowoil-findingequipmentactuallyworks,andGeBauer’sdevicewasanearlyinventioninthisfield.

Page 52: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

LetterfromLeoGeBauerdenyingheistheDr.GeeinFrankScully’sbook.Nodate.

InordertounderstandhowFrankScully’sstorywasdestroyedinthecourtofpublicopinion,itisessentialtoseehowthereputationsofhissourceswereruinedinacriminaltrial.ThefollowingiscondensedfromcourtrecordsandfromSteinman’sownresearchinhis1986bookaboutAztec.11

Fladerwasthefirstprosecutionwitnesstotakethestand,andhetoldthecourtthathismaincomplaint“washisinabilitytooperateGeBauer’soildetectingdevice,”andhefeltthatbothNewtonandGeBauerdefraudedhimforthefeeof$250,000thatheallegedlyinvestedintheoil-detectiondevice.Flader’stestimonywentonfortwoweeks.

OnTuesday,November17,1952,thedefenseteamforGeBauerpresentedasevidenceasignedcontractbyFladerthatgavehiminterestinthreeofGeBauer’soil-detectingdevicesinreturnforhisinvestment.Fladerdeniedthatheeversignedanycontract.Inchambers,thejudgewasshowntwoconflictingdocumentsandruledthatthecopywithFlader’ssignaturewouldnotbeadmissible.

OnFriday,November20,1952,theprosecutioncalledDr.JamesMeredith,aprofessorofgeophysicsattheColoradoSchoolofMines.Meredithwasaskedifhe,asanexpertingeophysicalexploration,couldprovethatLeoGeBauer’sdevicewasalegitimatedeviceforfindingoil.Hewasshownadevicethat,accordingtocourtrecords,“wasverysimilartotheonethatprosecutionhadtakenfromGeBauer.”12Theactualdevicepresentedincourt,accordingtothedefenseattorneys,wasonethatthedistrictattorneyhadpurchasedatalocalwarsurplusstorefor$4.45,andKeatingtestifiedthattheywere“verysimilartotheonesthatGeBauerhadused.”

Meredithtestified,“Theseso-calleddoodlebugscouldn’tdetectsubmarines,muchlessoiland/orgasdeposits.”TheoneproblemwiththispartofthetrialisthefactthatMeredithwasnotlookingat

Page 53: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

GeBauer’sdevice,butatKeating’sringerboughtatasurplusstore.TheprosecutiondidnothaveGeBauer’sinstrument.

Asecondwitnesstookthestandfortheprosecution:aresearchengineerfortheUniversityofDenver,whereSilasNewtonhadgivenhisfamouslectureonflyingsaucersinMarch1950.Again,thewitnessexaminedthesubstitutedeviceandtestifiedthatit“couldn’tfindanything.”

AnotherwitnessfortheprosecutionwasaforemanforSilasNewton’soilcompanyfrom1948to1949.HetestifiedthatGeBauer’sdevicecouldnotfindabrokendrillbitlostduringadeepdrillingoperation.Weakasthismaysound,itwastheonlywitnessKeatingcouldpresent.

Whenitcametimeforthedefensetopresentitscase,thefirstwitnessthatdefenseattorneyMellmancalledwasLutherTanner,ownerofaPhoenixbusline.HetestifiedthathesawHermanFladersignthedocumentthatKeatingclaimedwasaforgery.AtthistimeMellmanservedFladerwithasubpoena,orderingFladertoproducea“healthmachine”thatFladerhadsupposedlyproducedandsoldpartinterestinto—youguessedit—LeoGeBauerandSilasNewton,allatthesametimeFladerwaspurchasingpartinterestintheoil-detectiondevice.Keatingandhisentirestaffobjectedonthegrounds“thatitwasnotmaterialtothedoodlebugissue.”Mellmanarguedthatit“waspartofthesameexchangeofinterest.”

Onceagain,JudgeHickeyorderedarecessandaskedbothattorneystoarguetheirpointstotherelevancyofthehealthmachinetothiscase.ThefinaldecisionwasthatFlader’shealthmachinewasnotrelevanttothecase.(Authors’note:Fladerhadneverproducedaworkingmodelofhismachineasfarascanbedeterminedbyusandothers,buthehadreceivedmoneyfromGeBauerandNewtonasinvestmentsinthemachine.)

Theseconddefensewitnesswasarancherandbusinessmanwhotestified,withpicturesasevidence,thatGeBauer’sdevicesuccessfullylocatedthreewaterwellsonhisranch.

ThethirdwitnesswasBryceMorris,vicepresidentandpartnerinSunnyValleyOilCompany,ofDenver.Morristestifiedthat100,000acresoflandintheSanLuisValleyofsouthernColoradoweresurveyedwithGeBauer’sdeviceandthatthedeviceshowed“definitesignsofoil.”MorristhencontractedCharlesHeil,ageologistfromBoulder,Colorado,tosurveythelandaswell.ThesurveybyHeilconfirmedexactlywhatGeBauer’sdevicehadfound.Again,Hickeyruledthistestimonyinadmissible.

AnotherwitnesstotakethestandforthedefensewasHoraceSteeleofBakersfield,California,theownerofElTejonOilField,about35milessouthwestofBakersfield.Accordingtocourtrecords,hetestified,“Mr.GeBauer’smachinedivined35oilwellsforme.Earlierthisyear(1953)Isold89percentinonethesewellsfor$1,750,000.”Steelealsotestified,“IdrilledtwowellsonmyowninitiativeafterMr.GeBauertoldmenotto,onthebasisofsurveystakenbyhismachine.Bothofthesewellsturnedoutdry.IpaidGeBauer$10,000forthecompletesurvey.Itwaswortheverypenny.”AlthoughSteele’stestimonywascompelling,itseemedtohavenoimpactonthejury.

FredNewton,sonofSilasNewtonandsalesmanageroftheIllinois–CaliforniaExpressTruckingCompany,soughttotestifythathevisitedaWyomingoilfieldinwhichFladerinvesting,atthesametimeasFladerinvestedinGeBauer’soil-findingdevice.

DistrictAttorneyKeatingobjectedtotheyoungerNewton’stestimony,statingthatFlader’sWyominginvestment“hadnobearingonanyissueinthecase.”JudgeHickeyoverruledthemotion,ruling,“Idon’tseethatitwilldoanyharm.”EverythingFredNewtonsaidincourtbotheredKeating,andKeatingpepperedNewton’stestimonywithobjections,makingthattestimonyworthlessinthesensethatthejurycouldnotsortoutitsimpact.

ReadersmaywonderwhereCahnwasduringthistrial.Accordingtocourtrecords,thewriterwasonthesidelineshelpingKeatingwiththeprosecution’scase.ThisraisesthequestionofwhyCahnsozealouslypursuedtwomenwhomhebarelyknewandwhowerenotinvolvedwithhiminanymeaningful

Page 54: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

way.TheseventhwitnessforthedefensewasHowardHill,anarcherystarfromBeverlyHills.Cahn

himselfhadrecommendedthatHillbecalledasawitnessfortheprosecutionbut,afterKeatingreviewedwhatHillhadtosayindiscovery,theDAtoldHillhewouldnotbecalled.

MellmanandhisdefenseteamcalledHilltothestand.Hill’stestimonydescribedhowGeBauer’sdevicehadfoundanundergroundoiltankandsomeundergroundwaterpipesinthebackyardofhisHollywoodhome.HillalsotestifiedthattheU.S.governmenthadrecoveredaflyingsaucerandbodies.Hickeyimmediatelycutoffthisprovocativestatement.

Theprosecutionhadyetanothertrickupitssleeve:OnDecember18,1953,KeatingsubpoenaedThorSeverson,areporterfromtheDenverPost.SeversonwastheoriginalreporteroftheMarch8,1950,storyofSilasNewton’slectureattheUniversityofDenver—thesensationallecturethatledtoScully’sbook.Thelectureitselfwillbediscussedlaterinthisbook,butsufficeittosaythatnothinginthelecturedealtwithoil-detectiondevicesorfindingoil.IthadeverythingtodowiththestoryofacrashedorrecoveredflyingsauceratAztec.NewtonwasnotclearlyidentifiedasthelecturerattheuniversityorinScully’sbook;hewasinitiallydescribedonlyas“anunidentifiedmiddle-agedlecturer,”butlaterinthebookhewaslinkedtothatevent.

Again,accordingtocourtrecords,SeversonshowedthecourtacopyofaphotographportrayingFrankScully,SilasNewton,andGeorgeT.Koehler,theradioadvertisingexecutivefromDenver.ThephotowastakenbySeversonatthehomeofGeorgeT.Koehler.WhatthejurywasnotallowedtohearwasthatthemeetingatKoehler’shomewastotalkaboutrecoveredflyingsaucers,notoil-detectingdevices.Seversontestifiedthatoil-detectiondeviceswerementionedbyNewtonthenightthephotowastaken.Keating’sstrategyhadSeversontestifyingabouttheoil-detectiondevicebutcertainlynottherecoveredflyingsaucers.

Withalltheinformationavailable,intelligentreadersmustwonderwhyNewtonandGeBauerwereputontrial.Wasittheoil-detectiondevicethatwasnevershownincourt,orwasthisthepunishmentforrevealingwhattheyknewabouttherecoveredflyingsaucers?

LeoGeBauer’soil-detectiondevicewaspotentiallystillsecretrightafterthewar.Rememberthatifthedeviceaidedinthesinkingofenemysubmarinesinthesevenseasduringthewar,asclaimedinScully’sbook,maybefrom1948andthroughthe1953trial,thedevicewasstillasecretthatGeBauerwasnotauthorizedtoreveal.CertainvariationsoftheMagneticAnomalyDetectionDevice(MADD)arestillusedtodayforsubmarinetracking,orsubchasing,astheNavycallsit.TheP-3Orionaircraftstillusesavariationofthisdevice.

Asdiscussedinthisbook,VannevarBushwasverycautiouswhenaskingCecilGreenhowmanypeoplehadseenthisdetectiondevice.Green’sanswerwasa“fewsmalloilcompaniesintheSouthwest.”WasthegovernmenttryingtohidetheexistenceofboththeMADDdeviceandthefactthattheUnitedStateshadrecoveredflyingsaucers?

ThetrialofSilasNewtonandLeoGeBauerfinallycametoanend.Theywerefoundguiltyoffraudbythejuryandfacedapossible30yearsinprison,butthecasesuddenlyevaporated.Thetwomenwereneversentenced,andnofineswereeverlevied.ItisevenmorepeculiarthatNewtonagreedtopaycourtcostsof$18,000,justasthoughithadbeenaciviltrialratherthanacriminalprosecution.

OncetheAztecstorywasruined—nothing,nobody,pursuedNewtonorGeBauerformoneyorjailtime.InlookingafteralltheresourcesthattheU.S.governmentthrewatthiscase,wouldyounotexpectthatsomethingwouldhavehappened?AllofthishasbeencompletelyoverlookedintheyearssinceScullyfirstbroketheAztecstory.

Theonlythingthatmostpeoplerememberisthatthose“oilguys”gotintotrouble,andtheAztecstorywasdiscredited.Isthiswhatthemilitaryandthegovernmentreallywantedinthefirstplace—tomake

Page 55: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

thisstorygoawayanddie?HowmanylegalcasesaboutsimplefraudinvolvetheFBI,fourfederaljudges,chargesissuedbyaDenvermagistrate,andanallpointsbulletinonthesubjects,allleadingtoaconvictioninacasethatshouldhavebeenacivilsuit,notacriminalcase?Then,whenthetrialwasover,theconvictedcriminalswerereleasedwithoutpenaltytogobacktotheirlives.

IfJ.P.Cahnhadnotbeenleftatthealtarwithnoflyingsaucerstorytopublish,howwouldthisstoryhaveended?Afterall,itwasCahn’segothatprimedthewitch-huntinthefirstplace.WasCahnsentouttogetthisstoryfromScully,onlytoburyitandneverdiscussit?OrwasCahnreallyseekingtobreaktheAztecstoryhimself,beforedecidingtoharmScully,Newton,andGeBauer,afterheshowedupattheSanFranciscoChroniclewitheggonhisfaceinfrontofhisfriendScottNewhall,whohadbeeneagertorunawildandcontroversialstory?

Duringmy(Scott’s)researchonJ.P.Cahn,Idecidedthat,becauseIhadmadeapointoftravelingthroughouttheUnitedStatesinterviewingeveryoneelserelatedtothisincident,whynotCahn,too?IhadafeelingCahnwasstillalivebutcouldnotfindhim.ThesearchforCahnwasshort.Itwasdiscoveredthathehaddiedonlyafewmonthspriortomysearch.ThefamouslineofStantonFriedmancamehauntinglyback:“Wearealwaysracingtheundertaker”lookingforwitnessesinthesecases.

Accordingtotheobituary,Cahnhadnofamily,andapersonbythenameofRobertMcClayhadbeeninchargeofhisestate.AquickcheckoftheSanFranciscoareafoundaRobertMcClay,andIquicklycalledhimandleftamessage,explainingthatIwaswritingabookandneededsomeinformationonJ.P.Cahn.Robertwasveryniceinreturningmycall,andheexplainedthatCahnhadrecentlydiedandthathe(McClay)hadbeennamedexecutoroftheestate.Wetalkedforaboutanhour,andhetoldmetofeelfreetocontacthimoncewegotclosertowritingthebook.HealsoinvitedmetovisithiminSanFranciscoandsaidthathewouldhelpmeinanywayhecould.

WewantedtoknowwhatCahnwasreallylike.Washereallysincereinhiswriting?WasheouttogetFrankScully?Whatwashisbackground?HowdidtheChroniclereactwhentheydidnotgetthestoryontheAztecrecovery?AftertalkingtoMcClayonthephone,wefinallymetonJuly15,2008,athishouseoutsideofSanFrancisco.Withhisapproval,Itapedtheinterview,whichistranscribedfollowing.

July15,2008at1p.m.PDT

ScottRamsey: Bob,thankyouforthetimeyouhavegivenmeandallthetimeyouhavespentonthephonewithmepriortoflyingoutheretoSanFranciscotofinallymeetyou.CouldyoupleasetellusalittlebitaboutJ.P.Cahn?

BobMcClay: J.P.CahnwasaninterestingguythatIdidalotofworkfor,andIwasasuckerforhisprojectsbecausehehadagoodimagination,andhelikedtopromotethings.IwasinthepromotiondepartmentatthenewspaperwhenImethim,soIwasinthewholepromotionthinganddoingartworkforpromotionalads,andthingslikethat.So,wegotalongverywell,andIworkedforhimforalotofprojects,illustratedsomeofhisbooks,andgotinvolvedwithsomeoftheschemeshewasinvolvedwith.Hewasusedtobeingtheboss—hewastheheadguy,andpeopleweresupposedtofollowhisorders—andhealwayslikeditverywellifhedidn’thavetotellthemtoomuch(whattodo)iftheyjustdiditanyway.Yeah,sohewasaleader—hewasn’tafollower.Hewasaleaderkindofaguy,butalsolonely,Ithink,becausehewasn’tmarriedmostofthetimeIknewhim.Hehadbeenmarriedaboutfourtimes,andthey(hiswives)probablycouldn’tstandhim,andhedidn’thaveanychildren,andhisparentsweren’talivewhenIknewhim,sohewasalonerguy.Buthemanagedtomakeupforthatbykeepingbusyallthetimewithsomenewscheme,anditwas…itwassosadthewayhepassedon,becausehewasallalone.Hesaidbeforehedied,“Bob,you’remyonlyfriend,”whichisquitealoadtoputon

Page 56: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

someonethatyouknow.Ihadalotoffriends,andsohewasn’tmyonlyfriend,butItriedtodothebestbyhimthatIcould.

Scott: Thebookcoverthatyoushowedme—aboutwhatyear,fromyourbestmemorywasthatfrom?

Bob: Well,Iwouldsayitwassomewherein…maybe…early’60s…early-tomid-’60s,somewhereinthere.

Scott: LongafterhislittledisputewithFrankScully?Bob: Iguessso.IneverheardaboutthisdisputemyselffromJ.P.directly.UnlessIwas

involvedintheprojectmyself,heneverusedtogointoanythingverydetailed,andsoIdidn’treallyhearaboutthat.IfIhad,itwouldhavebeenjustoneofmanyprojectshewasinvolvedwith,andsothat’sasnearasIcanputitbecause,althoughIhadmethimworkingattheChronicleinthelate’50sandearly’60s.So,[that’s]whenIfiguredIdidthisartwork,butI’mnotsure.Itmighthavebeenlater,butnotearlierI’msure.

Scott: Havingtheartwork[fortheproposedbookcover]infrontofme,Ithinkitfunnythatinrelativelylargeprintitsays,“AtlasttheTruthAbouttheFlyingSaucersandtheMysteriousLittleMen,”andinsmallprintitsays,“TheInsideStoryBehindtheNationalBestSellerBook,BehindtheFlyingSaucers,”whichI’msureisreferringtoFrankScully’sbook.Itgoesontosay,“FromTrue—LargestSellingMen’sMagazine,SurpassestheBestOfOrsonWells’MenfromMars—Corp.B.J.L.Jr.,Ft.Houston,Texas.MeettheAuthorJ.P.Cahn,T.V.“BigStory”AwardWinnerfeaturedinTIME.GetyourpersonallyAutographedCopyNow!”Onthecover,it[thecoverartwork]lookslikethedesertofNewMexico,withstarsinthebackground,andthreeflyingsaucers—andthisisyourhandyartwork,veryniceartwork,anditwouldbefuntorememberallthedetailsbehindthis,ortoknowwhathe[Cahn]wasupto.

Bob: Yeah,yeah,itsoundedtypicalofhim,andIknewIwouldenjoydoingartworkrelatedtoitbecauseIalwaysbeenkindofasciencefictionguy,andmymotherusedtogototheGiantRockthingsdowninthedesert,andsoIhadalways…IhadalwayshadasoftspotforUFOs,X-Files,andallthatstuff.

Scott: IthinkthemajorityoftheAmericanpublicdoes.Bob: Yes—Scott: Goingback,youthoughthe[Cahn]hadamilitarybackground,howeverbriefitmayhave

been?Bob: Ithinkhewaseitherdraftedorhewascaughtupintheearlypushtojointhemilitaryin

theearly’40s.SohewasintheAirForceortheArmyAirCorps,butIdon’tthinkhewasinthereformorethanacoupleofyears.HecametoworkattheChroniclerightafterthat,Ibelieve.

Scott: SohewaspossiblyinduringWorldWarIIwhenitwastheArmyAirCorps?Bob: Yeah,butIdon’tthinkhesawanyactionoranythinglikethat.Ican’timaginehimbeing

inanyaction,andheneverreallysaidanythingaboutit—only“Ijoinedup,andthenwhenIgotout,IstartedworkingattheChronicle”—andthatsortofthing.Sortofpassedrightoverit.

Scott: GoingbacktopriortogettingtoknowhimandknowingtheeditoroftheSanFrancisco

Page 57: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Chronicle,giveusalittlebackgroundontheeditorandtherelationshiphehadwithJ.P.Cahn.

Bob: Well,theybothstartedattheSanFranciscoChronicleataboutthesametime.LikeIsay,Ireallydidn’tstartuntilthelate’50sortheearly’60s,andScottNewhallwastheeditoratthattime,andhemayhavestartedatthesametimeaseditorasJ.P.startedasacopywriter,andScottNewhallcamefromawealthyCaliforniafamily,andhewasawonderfulpromoterandreallyturnedthenewspaperaroundandwasinstrumentalinbringinginalotofverygoodtalent.ItwastheheydayfortheChronicleinthe’50sand’60sandthen,afterthat,ScottNewhallleftthepaper.Hestillhadalotofprojectsthathewasinterestedin,andJ.P.didstuffforhim,andIdidartworkforsomeofthoseprojects.So,ScottNewhallwasawonderfulideaguy,andhecouldaffordtoindulgeinsomefancifulideas.

Scott: Asweweretalkingatlunch,andwewerebothspeculatingabit,butknowingScottNewhallandJ.P.aswellasyoudid,hadJ.P.beenabletobuytheAztecUFOstoryfromFrankScully,andyouknowingthetwopeople,doyouthinkthatwouldhavebeensomethingScottwouldallowhimtorunintheChronicle—asabreakingstory?

Bob: Ithinkso,knowingthetypesofstuffScottNewhallusedtopromoteinthepaper.Hehadseveralbooksthatwererunasaserial.IrememberoneIdidthatwasdonebyalocal:TheMadamsofSanFrancisco,andIdidtheillustrationsforaboutfourdifferentchaptersforthatbook,andhealwayshadsomeinterestinpublishingthings.SomewereearlyCaliforniathings,butthereweresomekindofwildthingsaswell,andheusedtosupport[thoseprojects],andJ.P.wastheperfectguytoworkonthosethings.

Scott: ScottNewhallwasnostrangertoshakingthingsupabit?Bob: No,notatall.Therewerepeoplethatwerekindofoldfashionedanddidnotlikethe

waytheChroniclewasgoing,butitwentthatway,anditwaspopularenough.Ithinkifithadbeenavailable[theAztecUFOstory],Scottwouldhavepublishedit.

Scott: Okay,that’sinteresting.ThisfitsinwithwhatFrankScullyreferstoinhisbookBehindtheFlyingSaucers,andhissecondbook,InArmourBright.FrankclaimedthatJ.P.approachedScullytobuythestory,butFrankhadalreadycommittedthebook—insomanywords.But,J.P.thoughthehadthebookdealandranbacktoNewhall.But,J.P.didnothaveabookdeal,andhehadeggonhisface.Now,that’stheshortversionofthestory,butthislooksliketheproblemwithFrankScullyandJ.P.Cahnstarted.Whatareyourthoughts?

Bob: Well,IcanseewhereJ.P.wenttoScottandsaid,“Wegotthis‘property’here,anditlooksgood.”IfNewhallsaid,“Yeah,getthisproperty,andwewilldoit,”but,maybethisissomethingthatJ.P.couldnotpulloff.

Scott: Aswewerediscussingatlunchtoday,givemesomeideaastowhatkindofstoriesJ.P.wouldwritebackthen.

Bob: Well,probablyundertheinfluenceofScottNewhall,J.P.gotalotofstoriesdealingwithearlyCalifornia,earlySanFrancisco,theearlyWest.HedidseverallittleshortstoriesoftheOldWest,sohewasreallyintothat,andtheywerepopularenoughIguess.Idon’tthinkheeverhadabigsuccessgettingthempublished.Hehadthempublishedhimself,butthenyouaredrivingaroundwithabunchofbooksinyourcar.Itwasthedoingofitthatwasthefunpart,andheenjoyedseeingthefinishedcover—theartwork,andhis

Page 58: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

nameasbigaslife.Soitwaskindofanegotrip,butatthesametimetheywereinterestingbooksfromthatstandpoint.Otherwise,Idon’trememberanyotherthemeshewasinto.LikeIsay,Ididcoversforatleastthreeandmaybefoursmallbooks,andwhenhehadsomethinginamagazineIwouldsupplythat[art],too.

Scott: Bob,ifyoucould,pleasegiveusabriefoverviewofJ.P.’sfamilylifegrowingup.Bob: Hewasborn,Ibelieve,hereinCaliforniaand,infact,hisstorywasthathisgrandmother

wasthefirstwhitechild,firstwhitewoman,borninCaliforniaduringtheGoldRushdays.Henevermentionedhisfatherverymuch.Ithinkhisfatherwasoneofthosethatwasinsomekindofbusinessthatdidverywell,andtheywereprettywelloff.ButthefatherwasneverhomemuchandevidentlydidnotgivemuchattentiontoJ.P.,oratleastthat’stheimpressionIgot.Hismotheradoredhimbecausehewastheonlychild;hehadhealthproblemswhenhewaslittle,andhewasepileptic,andthatpreventedhimfromhavingchildren,notwantingtopassiton—andthatmayhavebeenonedownfallofsomeofthemarriages.Hedidn’treallytalkmuchofhisfolks,[but]hetalkedabouthismothermoresothanhisfather.Hedidnotreallywanttospreadhisearlyhistoryaround.Hewasmoreinterestedinthe“NOW,”youknow—moreofwhathewasdoingnow.

Scott: Inlookingoveracoupleofhisoldbooksthatyousavedovertheyears,TrueTalesofTheRealCharactersoftheOldWestbyJohnKenner,whichwashispenname,andtheothertitles—asyousay,helovestalkingaboutthehistory.

Bob: Yes,alotofthesewerefiction,buthediddoreallifeCaliforniahistory,stagecoachrobberyguys,andthingslikethat.

Scott: IdidalsonoticethatsomeofthesebookswerehighlyendorsedbytheSanFranciscoChronicle—byWilliamHogan,whoisreallyendorsingJohnKenner,whoisjustreallyanemployeeatthenewspaper—meaningJ.P.Cahn

Bob: (laughing)Wellyoumayaswellhavesomebody’snamethattheyrecommendtogiveyouanendorsement.J.P.kindoffellonhardtimeswhenheturned80orsometimearoundthat.J.P.wasinandoutofnursinghomesatthatpoint.

EndofMcClayInterview

Page 59: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

RobertMcClay’scoverartworkforCahn’sproposedbook.

J.P.Cahndiedin2005attheageof83,andBobMcClaywasinchargeofdisposingofallofCahn’spossessions,ashewastheauthor’sbestfriend.Cahn’sbodywasdonatedtotheUniversityofCaliforniaMedicalCenter.

McClayneversawthebookthatwasgoingtobeCahn’sresponsetoBehindtheFlyingSaucers.HisonlyconnectionwastheillustratedbookcoverthatCahnhadrequestedhedraw.Bobgaveittome,andIhaveithangingproudlyinourNorthCarolinahomeoffice.IguessnobodywilleverknowthecontentsofCahn’slastbook,asBobMcClaythrewallofCahn’spapersintoatrashdumpsterafterhisdeath.DiditcontaintheunfinishedbookcontainingCahn’ssideoftheAztecsaucerstory?

Alternatively,wastheflyingsaucerbookthatCahnwaswritingarebuttaltoFrankScully’sbook?WasCahnhopingtohavethesamesuccessasScully?Or,didCahnknowmoredetailsthatheonlyfeltcomfortabletalkingaboutyearsaftertheentireSilasNewtonandLeoGeBaueraffairhaddieddown?

Thedoodlebugdevicethatweheardsomuchaboutseemstobeadistractioninthistrial,aswellastheflyingsaucerstoryitself.EvenCecilGreenfromGSI,theforerunnerofTexasInstruments,wasfondofdoodlebugginginhissparetime.

Onescenarioweconsideredovertheyearswentlikethis:Weknowfromhistoricalrecordsthatthedevicelatertermedthe“MADD”startedoutasadevicetofindoilandwater.Whenresearchdeterminedthatitcouldalsodetectmetalunderwater,itbecameessentialtothesearchforenemysubmarines.Thedevice,asweknow,wasclassifiedasTopSecretduringandafterWorldWarII.WealsoknowthatthesubjectofflyingsaucerswasclassifiedTopSecret,orsometimeshigher,ifwebelievesomereliablesources.

WealsoknowfromdoingourresearchandthesecourtrecordsthatsomeonewastryingtopunishNewtonandGeBauerforintroducingFrankScullytothemysteriousDr.Gee.Somehow,itseemedthatiftheflyingsaucerstorycouldbediscreditedthroughScully’ssources,itwouldbecuttingofftheheadofthesnakeandthestorywoulddieaquickdeath.Thisisexactlywhathappenedformanyyearsafterdefendants,theprosecution,andJ.P.CahnallwalkedoutofcourtonDecember29,1953.ItispossiblethattheshadowyfigureoftheU.S.governmentwaswalkingbesidethem.

OurpersonaltakeonCahnwasthathewasconsumedwithjealousyand,whenFrankScullyrefusedto

Page 60: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

sellthestoryofthecenturytohimortotheSanFranciscoChronicle,hewasangryanddisappointedasanyjournalistwouldbe.Insteadofacceptingthedefeat,hedecided,possiblywiththeblessingofScottNewhall,thatScully’sstoryhadtobedestroyedaspartofhisvendetta.

MaybewewillneverknowallthefactssurroundingCahn’smotivationandhisdarkcrusade.AllwecanrelyuponareoldcourttestimonyandinterviewswiththepersonwhoworkedwithCahn,laughedwithCahn,andhelpedhimthroughhislastyearsonEarth—asagoodfriendwoulddo.

TheAztecflyingsaucerstorywas,untilnow,cloudedbythe“conmen”whowereexposedbyJ.P.Cahn,butthefactsofthecasesuggestthatmaybetheentireconwasCahnhimself.

Page 61: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

6

SilasNewton:TheManWhoKnewTooMuch

“Withintwohoursthey…werebeingquestionedbyAirForceIntelligenceofficers.Thefirstthingtheinvestigatorswantedtoknowwas…theman’sname.”

—FrankScully,19511

Thevoicecomingoutofthespeakerwasauthoritativeanddidactic.Itcouldhavebeenthatofaprofessor,butitwas“ScientistX”whowasspeakingtoaraptaudienceofcollegestudentsattheUniversityofDenveronMarch8,1950.Hislectureonflyingsaucerslaunchedabest-sellingbookbyFrankScullythatsameyearandfirstrevealedwhatwenowcalltheAztecIncident.ThespeakerwasSilasMasonNewton.

Thelectureitselfwasthoughtlostforsixdecades,untilitwasdiscoveredbyresearchersScottRamseyandMikePricein2011inoldtechnologywirerecordingsfrom1950intheFrankScullyCollection,Box4,Folder3,attheAmericanHeritageCenterattheUniversityofWyomingatLaramie.

GeorgeKoehler,ofDenverradiostationKMYR,recordedNewton’slecture,andhisattentiontohistorycausedhimmuchdiscomfortwhentheAirForcecametocallonhim,asisrevealedinanotheroneofKoehler’srecordings(transcribedinChapter12).

Newtonopenedhislecturewiththesewords:

IagreedattherequestofmygoodfriendGeorgeKoehlerof[radiostation]KMYR,thatIwouldmeetwithyou,ladiesandgentlemen,andtalkwithyouaboutasubjectthathascommandedagooddealofattentioninthepress.Peoplearenowinterestedinflyingsaucers,andwhytheyarecalledflyingsaucers….InJanuarythepresscarriedtheinformationthatwhatiscalled“ProjectSaucer”wasabandoned.Thatisnotthecase.Therearethingswemustadhereto—certainruleswemustfollow.Idon’twantyoutoaskmethenamesofthesescientists.Idonotwantyoutoaskmetheexactlocationswherethesesaucerswerefound.Thisisnotthepropertimetodiscussthis.

Atthisuniversity,forthefirsttime,youaregoingtohearaboutflyingsaucers.2

Newtonthenlaunchedintothenarrative,sofamiliarfromScully,thatwithin500milesofDenveronadaywithinthepasttwoyears,aroundobjectwasfound—aflyingsaucer.Newtonthenbegansketchingonachalkboard.

IntroducedasScientistX,NewtondrewaroughfacsimileoftheAztecsaucerforthestudentsanddiscussedmagneticlinesofforceasitspropulsionsystem.Healsodescribedwhatthescientiststoldhimtheyfoundinsidethesaucerwherethedeadcrewmemberslay.Newtoncametotheendofhislecture:“Ihavegivenyoudetailsoftheflyingsaucersthatcomeandgo.Inconclusion,theyarereal,andwhydotheycallthemflyingsaucers?”Newtontalkedabouthighlytrainedmilitarymenandpilotswho,becauseoftheirwarexperience,couldinstantlyrecognizeanythingthatflewintheair,andtheyallreported“theseshipsaslookinglikesaucersflyingthroughtheair.”ThankstoGeorgeKoehler,Scullyhadthelecturewordforwordtouseforhisbook,andtherecordinghasbeensavedforposterity.

Indeed,NewtonisthelynchpinoftheAztecstory,andhemadeScully’sbookpossiblebyintroducinghimtothescientistswhoactuallystudiedtheAztecsaucer.Astheripplesinthepondstillflowoutward,

Page 62: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

perhapsNewtonhasevenmadethisbookpossibleaswell.So,whowasNewton,andwhyarethecareerdebunkersstillsayingterriblethingsabouthim?

SilasNewton’ssketchoftheflyingsaucer,drawnonthechalkboardattheUniversityofDenver,March8,1950.

SilasNewtonwasbornonJuly19,1887,inShelbyCounty,Kentucky.Heearnedhisbachelor’sdegreeatBaylorUniversity,studiedatYale,anddidpost-graduateworkattheUniversityofBerlinallbeforehebecameanentrepreneurinoneofthemostvolatilebusinessesin20th-centuryAmerica:thepursuitofblackgold.Scullypraisedhimbydescribinghimas“[a]manwhonevermademorethan$25,000,000norlostmorethan$20,000,000,therediscovereroftheRangelyoilfield,patronofthearts,andmanoftheworldgenerally.Inbrief,amanofsubstanceaswellasscienceandasAmericanasapplepie.”3

ScullyalsopaintedthecharacterofNewtonthroughdescribingtheoilman’sloveaffairwithNewYorksportswriterNanO’Reilly,whomhemarried.Tenyearslater,uponlearningabouthisbride’sfatalcancerdiagnosis,heput$1millionintoherbankaccountandtoldhertolearnhowtospendmoney.Afterayear,themoneywasgoneand“sowasshe.”4Newton’sclassicgenerosityprovidesaglimpseintohischarisma,anditmayhelpexplaintheimpulsethatputhimonthestageofthatDenverlecturehallandintothecrosshairsofarelentlessvilificationcampaignorchestratedbytheFBI—thesameFBIthat,in1941,hadpronouncedhimtobeofupstandingcharacterandaloyalAmerican,evenifhevotedRepublican.

Untilnow,Newton’sstoryhasbeentoldprimarilybyhisdetractors,andthereisnodoubtthattheoilbusinessisnoplaceforsissies.Everybodyinthatbusinessmakesenemiesbecauseoftherisksinherentinthesearchforoil.ThequestcentersonsomeonesuchasNewton,whoinvitesadozenormoreinvestorstorisk$10,000—enoughtofinancethedrillingventure.Ifthewellsproduce,everybodygoeshomea

Page 63: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

winner;iftheholesaredryorminimalinproduction,theinvestorsarenotsohappy.

RockeyMountainNewsclipping.

ThereasonthatNewtonwassorichandsuccessfullayinhisscientificgrounding.Hewasageophysicistwhomadeastudyofhowtodetectpetroleumbeneaththesurfaceoftheearth,whetherbyassayingshaleorusingadevicethatcouldactually“see”largebodiesofoilatgreatdepths.HerichlydeservedthetitlebywhichhewasintroducedattheUniversityofDenver:ScientistX.

Bythetimehestumbledupontheflyingsaucermystery,Newtonwas61,havingmademillionsoverhiscareerinanerawhenamilliondollarswasadizzyingsum.Histrajectorypeakedin1950whenheelectrifiedanaudienceaboutflyingsaucers,andtheratpackchasedhimfortherestofhislife.

Whatnobodyknewwasthat,in1954,SilasNewtonsatdownatthetypewriterandbegantowritehisautobiography.Wefoundthisnever-finishedstoryintheFrankScullyarchivesattheUniversityofWyoming,andforthefirsttimewerevealNewton’ssecretthoughtsandhisevaluationofthosewhoattackedhimafterhislectureinDenver.5

Inasuperficialway,Newton’sstoryresemblessomewhatthefictionsofhisdetractors.HedidindeedhaveafriendshipwithLeoGeBauer,ofPhoenix,andhedidhaveabusinessdealthatwentbadwiththeDenverbusinessmanHermanFlader,butthatiswherethesimilaritiesseemtoend,andNewtoncertainlyneverpublishedhislifestory,ifheevercompletedit.FrankScullywaswiseenoughtosafeguardwhatNewtonwrote,anditsurvivestobepartofthefactualstoryoftheAztecIncident.

Newton’sphotoshowsadistinguished-lookingman,andhisFBIfilein1941describeshimas5’9”tall,160pounds,butthensaysheis“heavy,ratherstocky,”whichdoesnotfittheheight/weightdescription.Hiscomplexionwasruddy,asbefitsamanwhospentmuchofhislifeoutdoors.Hewas

Page 64: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

clean-shaven,andtheFBIsaidheshowedallthetrappingsofwealth.Amusingly,thesamedocumentssaythatNewton“playsgolfcontinuously,”butthatisnotsurprising,ashewasanaccomplishedgolferforallofhisadultlife.

Alltold,Newtonwasmarriedfourtimes,andconsideringhiswealthandhissavoir-faire,itshouldmakesensetothediscerningreaderofhislifestory.Newtonwasnotonlyrich,buthewaseducated,literate,athletic,well-read,andsophisticated.

ItshouldbementionedthatcollegedegreesweremuchlesscommonbeforeWWII,andforaman(anditwasmostlymenatthattime)todopost-graduateworkinBerlin,asdidNewtonandoneoftheDr.GeesdescribedinChapter14,wasunusual.Butallofthistiestogetherintheendofthestory.

Newton’soilventuresspannedacrosstheWest,andhehadahomeat1929WhitleyStreet,Hollywood,California,butgothismailatthefamedKnickerbockerHotelthere.Hismainofficeswereat315FranklinStreet,Denver,Colorado,whereheobviouslyknewGeorgeKoehler,theradioadvertisingsalesmanwhobroughthimtotheUniversityofDenverlecturetheaterandwhoengineeredhisdisappearanceimmediatelyafterthebombshellpresentation.

Newtonstartedwritinghislifestoryin1954,andthattypescripthasbeenpreservedintheScullyarchives,butthereisnodoubtthathesawhishouronthestageinDenverasthefocalpointofhisstory,surroundedbyadetailedandharrowingdescriptionofhisarrestandprosecutionin1952becauseoftheworkofJ.P.CahnwhowasabletostirHermanFladertofileachargeagainsthimandhisfriendLeoGeBauer.

SomemaywonderwherejournalistFrankScullygotallthematerialtodiscussmagnetismandthefieldofmagneticswhenhewrotehisflyingsaucerbook,butNewton’smanuscriptshowsaremarkableinterestandunderstandingofthehistoryofmagnetism,aswellasaconvictionthatthemethodofpropulsionfortheflyingsaucershadtobebymagneticlinesofforce.ItwasallpartofhispresentationtothestudentsandfacultyattheUniversityofDenver.

PartofthemysteryforthatlecturewasthefactthatNewtonwasnotoriginallyscheduledtoappear.ScienceprofessorBroman’soriginalideawastobringinoneofthe“menofscience”todiscusstheflyingsaucerphenomenon.Oneofthoseaccomplishedscientistshadagreedbutallegedlygotcoldfeetatthelastminutewhenthegovernmentclampeddownonthesaucerstory.AsistoldinScully’sbook,thescientistsbelievedthatthegovernmentwasplanningtorevealwhatitknewabouttherecoveredsaucers,butthenchangedcoursesuddenly,classifyingflyingsaucersaboveTopSecret.BecauseNewtonobviouslyknewsomeofthesescientists,heagreedtogivethelecture,baseduponwhattheyhadtoldhim.

WhywouldSilasNewtonknowscientistsworkingonhighlyclassifiedprojects?Fortheanswertothis,weaskyoutoreferbacktothebiographiesofthese“menofscience”astheyweredescribedbyScullyandbyNewton.ThewartimeworkofthesescientistsindevelopingmagneticdetectiondeviceswasbegunbeforeWWIIasresearchintofindingoil!AndthatiswhenNewton’sscientificinterestsbroughthimintocontactwiththesemen.Bynowthereadercanseehowthegovernmentafter1947broughtmagneticresearchscientiststogether,underVannevarBush,todoahighlyclassifiedstudyoftheamazingdisc-shapeddevicesthatcametoearthinthoseearlyyears,particularlytheAztecsaucerthathadgently“pancakedtoearth,”asScullydescribedit.6

InNewton’sownwordsconcerningtheMarch8,1950lecture,hewrotein1954:

SomefouryearsagoIdaredtostandbeforeanaudienceinaso-calledHallofLearningandtellapackedbodyofstudentsastoryIhadheardaboutaphenomenononwhichourguardiansofspace,theAirForcetogetherwiththeAirForceofCanadaandGreatBritainandothernationshavespentmillionstryingtoidentifywhattheyterm“UnidentifiedAerialObjects.”Theycallit“ProjectBlueBook”togiveitapropercloakofmysteryhereintheU.S.A.

Page 65: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

LittledidNewtonknowthatthislecturewouldleadtooneofthemostdifficultperiodsofhisadventurouslife.

Inhislecture,Newtonwroteonthechalkboardandsketcheddiagrams.Fortunately,therawsketchforoneofthediagramsheoutlinedontheboardthatdayin1950survivedinFrankScully’sarchivesatUW.

Inhisdiscussionattheuniversity,Newtonnotonlyaffirmedthatflyingsaucersexist,healsospokeaboutmagnetism.HespokeofGalileo,andrecalledGiordanoBruno’simmolationattheheretic’sstake,andNewtondescribedhow,whenGalileoannouncedhisheliocentrictheory,the“brothers”remindedhimofBruno’suntimelyendandGalileo“withhistongueinhischeekrecanted.”

Newtonstatedfirmlyinhismanuscript:“Astomytalk(referringtothelectureattheUniversityofDenver),itwasn’tlongbeforethefingerofpersecutionbeganpointingmyway,andthey’vescorchedmyhidealready.ButIhaven’trecanted.”Hewasreferring,ofcourse,totheprosecutionpartiallyorchestratedbyCahn,Flader,KenPurdyofTrueMagazine,andtheDenverPostforgoodmeasure.(ThisisrevealedindetailintheChapter5.)

Inhismanuscript,Newtoncontinues:

So,tothedegreedsavantsofaso-calledplaceoflearning,tothepublisherofadecadentyellowjournal[presumablyoneoftheabovepublications],tothethunderingchargesofasmalltimepoliticalofficeseeker,tothesmirkingsofablack-robedmemberoftheDistrictCourt,tothejuryoftwelvewhoknewnotwhattheywerecalledontojudge,Isay,“Father,forgivethem,theyknownotwhattheydo.”

Newtonahoaxer?Here’swhathewritesonpage199ofthatunpublishedlifestory:

Whenthedaycomesandoneofthesesilentinvadersofourskysetsdownandwearegreetedbyapeopleofanotherplanet,I’mwonderingiftheytoowillbestonedinthemarketplace?Methinkstheyalreadyknowourwaysanderetheydovisitusthey’llbeinapositiontoprotectthemselvesagainstourgangstermethodsandourshoot-first-and-investigate-afterwardssystem.OfonethingI’mcertain,andthatfellowWilburB.Smith[sic;shouldbe“Wilbert”]upinCanadahasmyunqualifiedadmiration,becauseheandhisgrouphavedaredtodeclarethatmagneticpropulsionistheonlyplausibleanswertothequestion,“Howdotheyfly?”

Asthereaderputstwoandtwotogether,Newton’sinterestinmagneticpropulsiontheorymakesperfectsense.BeforeWWII,Newtonknewsomeofthosescientistswholaterwentintotop-secretworkforVannevarBushduringandafterthewar.Thosescientistswouldhavebeenthenaturalteamtostudydownedflyingsaucersfoundfrom1947to1950,andNewtoncertainlywouldstayintouchwiththemtoassistinthedevelopmentofMagneticAnomalyDetectionDevices(MADDs)thatwerethenandstillarecalleddoodlebugs.Newton’sgreatsuccessinfindingoilisatestamenttothesuccessoftheMADDs.

Newtondiscussesflyingsaucersinhismanuscriptonpage201:

…itseemsreasonabletomethattheirflightthepastsevenyears[Newtonreferstotheyears1947–1954here]haveenabledthemtomapthisworld’sterrestrialfieldofforce,andthatalreadypossessedofsuperiorknowledgeastomagnetics,theycancalculateonthemagnetictimefactoratanygivenpointonthisglobeformonthsahead.CarnegieInstitutewouldbehonoredbythesepilotsusingmagneticfieldsforpower,andmanyofthescientificproblemsunsolvedtodaymightberesolvedwithsuchameeting.

Onpage202,heemphasizesagainthatcentraltheme:“Magnetics,magnetics.Thescientistthatunlocks

Page 66: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

thedoortomagneticswilloutrankallthescientistsofalltime.”ItwouldseemthatifNewtonwashoaxinganyone,itwouldbehimself,andhiswritingshowshewasfartoobrightforthat.Newtondevotedmanypagesinhisunpublishedautobiographytothehistoryofmagnetism,fromSirWilliamGilbert’streatise“DeMagnete”rightuptomodernstudies,includingHelmholtz,whooncesaidthatthegreatfailureofthe19thcenturywasthefailuretounderstandmagnetism.

Newton’spersonalstoryincludespagesdevotedtodiscussionofmagnetism,linesofmagneticforce,andotherscientifictopics,revealingthathemayhavebeenanoilman,buthewas,bydintofeducationandassociation,atruegeophysicistandmagneticscientist.IndeedweseethehandofNewtoninScully’s1950book(Chapter14,“SomeMagneticDefinitions”).ThescientificdiscussionisverysimilartowhatisfoundintheNewtonmanuscriptandmostlikelyisNewton’stutelageofScullyratherthantheotherwayaround.

Inaseparateundated1950wirerecordingarchivedatUW,NewtonspeaksofdoingmagneticresearchintheMojavedesertwitha“topmagneticscientist,”whenhementionedtothis“doctor[PhD]”readingaboutflyingsaucers.Weareassumingthisexploratorytripcouldhavebeenin1949.Thescientisttoldhim,“Youknow,IhadtomakeatripfromDenvertoPhoenix,andwhenIdrovepastAztec,N.M.Ithought,Iwish,Si,youwerewithmesothatIcouldshowyouwherethatflyingsaucerlanded.”7Newtoncontinueshisnarrativetellinghowthe“Doc”describedthehigh,rockyplateaueastofAztecandhowthey(thescientistsandthemilitary)hadcomedownfromDurangowithinafewhoursofthelanding.Giventhetechnologyof1948,the“Doc”wouldhavetobeinthegeneralareaalreadyinordertojointhemilitarythatquickly.

Newtonwaswritingin1954,ponderingthemysteriesofmagneticpowerandmagneticfieldsastheymightapplytopowerandpropulsion,while61yearslater,wearestillbuildingchemicalfirecrackerstoboostourselvesintospace.

Newtonreservedhispurestvitriolforthedebunkersandcharlatansofhistime.Onpage206,heroastedHarvardprofessorDonaldMenzelforafraud.Menzelpublishedhisfirstflyingsaucerbook,FlyingSaucers—Myth—Truth—History,in1953,abookalongwithtwolaterworksthathavelargelybeenshowntobemoregovernmentdisinformationthanfact.ItwasmodernresearcherStantonFriedmanwhodiscoveredthatMenzelwasdeeplyinvolvedinnationalsecurity,anditwasMenzelwhoexplainedawaythe1952appearanceofflyingsaucersoverWashington,DC,astemperatureinversion,aphenomenonthathasnotproducedanyothersightingssincethattime.

EvenFrankScullywasoutragedbyMenzel’soutlandish“natural”explanationsofflyingsaucers,andthebeginningsofhisunpublishedmanuscriptwiththeworkingtitle“LittleMenzelFromMars”wasalsodiscoveredintheScullyarchivesatUW.

NewtonwascolorfulincommentingonMenzelonpage206oftheautobiography:“IreadaletterbythisinversiontheoristandIreadthe[1953]bookheputhisnametoasauthorof‘FlyingSaucers’whereinhedevotedsixteenpagestomeandmytalkattheUniversityofDenver.IfIeverencounteredastuffedshirtwriting,DonaldH.isthatboy.Firsthelied,andhedidthissecond,third,andcontinuouslyfromcovertocoverofhisworthlesswork.

Continuing,Newtonwrote,“Hewasaone-sidedcharlatan,andcallinghimascientistisaninsulttothemenwhohavemadethisworldabetterplacebecauseoftheirwork.Hewasdishonestasareporter,heprovedhisignoranceonmanymattershepretendedtoknowabout.”Today,mostresearchersseeMenzelasservingthegovernmenttohidetherealityofflyingsaucers,andMenzelwasonrecordtotheendthatflyingsaucersdidnotexist.

Newtondeliveredhismostpowerfulstatementsonpage207,fullyquotedhere:

WhatMenzeldidn’tknowanddidn’tgiveadam[sic]aboutwasthatacompletetaperecordingof

Page 67: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

theincidentisinmypossessionandProfessorBroman’svoice[theprofessorwhointroducedNewtontotheclass]isdulyrecordedthere.

WhatItoldtheUniversityofDenverclassMarch8,1950andwhatItoldFrankScullythatwentintohisbookBehindtheFlyingSaucersIhadheardoveraperiodofmonthsafterJuly1949.

Isubmitthefollowing…noonehasdisprovedonebasicclaimImade,towit:Threeshipshadbeenreportedtomeashavinglandedintwosouthwesternstates,andtheyhadbeentakenoverbytheAirForceandthatscientistshadbeencalledintoexamineandreportonthesealienobjectsfromspace.Peoplewereonthoseships,andtheyweredead.

Theshipswerepropelledbyamethodunknownonthisearthandassumedtobebyaformofmagneticpropulsion,wherebythesolarfieldofforceandaswellastheearth’sfieldprovidedthesourceofenergyusedtomakethemfly.

“Fiveyearshavepassed,”Newtonremindedthereaderthathewasprivytothestoryoftheflyingsaucersstartingin1949.HespokeadmiringlyofCanadianengineerWilbertB.SmithwhorevealedtoAmericanresearchersthatflyingsaucerswereasecretevenhigherthantheH-bomb.HereferredtoAlChopandCaptainEdwardP.Ruppelt,whoeachheadedOperationBlueBookandwhosejobwastoprovidepublicrelationsreportsaboutunidentifiedflyingobjects,nottoinvestigateUFOs.

Theoilmanalwaysmaintainedthatwhatheknewaboutflyingsaucerswasimpartedtohimbyscientistswhomhegreatlyrespected,asfoundonpage210:“Theremaynotbelittlemenorbigmenontheseships.Idonotknow.Ineversawone,butIprefertoacceptastruethereportsofmostofthepeopleI’veheardfrom,talkedto,andexaminedthesefiveyears.”

Newtonwrote,againonp.210,“…thestoryinBehindtheFlyingSaucerswillbenearerthetruththananyonebelievedpossible.”Hewrotethosewordsin1954,andthisbookhasprovedtheuncannyvalidityofScully’sbookasfewotherseverhave.

DidNewtonknowsecretscientists?Heconcludesasectionofhismanuscript(pages210–211):

AsIwritetheselines,myfriend[Gene]DorseywiththeassistanceoftworankingscientistshasjustbeenbreakingdownandtaperecordingthestoryofanAerojetscientistandaformerA.E.C.[AtomicEnergyCommission]scientiststationedatLosAlamos.Thismanhadadirectexperiencenotonlywith,butinside,aflyingsaucerin1950andsofarhisscientificdiscussionandanalysisofhisexperiencesandfindingshasbeenflawless.

Asplainlyashedared,Newtonrevealedthatheknewthose“menofscience”whotoldhimandScullyabouttheAztecsaucerrecovery.

ReaderswillnodoubtdoInternetsearchesfor“SilasNewton”andwilldiscover,almostwithoutexception,thathistoricalsourcesbrandNewtonasaconman,ahoaxer,andamanofpoorcharacter.InthisbookNewtonanswersallofthosechargesinhisownwords.Newton’saccusersandthedebunkershaveallusedastheironlysourcetheworkofJ.P.Cahn,whosefarragohasalreadybeenexposed(inChapter5).Newtondeservedhisdayinthecourtofpublicopinion,buthislifestorynevermadeittotheprintingpress.HeknewfullwellthatthetroublesinhislifebeganonMarch8,1950,andhadnothingtodowithhisshrewdbusinessdealings;theyhadeverythingtodowithflyingsaucers.

Newton’snextsalvowasfiredonpage228ofhismanuscript:

ItappearsthatIcommittedanunpardonablesin,whenin1949Iheardthestoryofflyingsaucers,andaftermonthsandmonthsofinquiry,couldn’tbreakitdown,andthentoldthestory,atalltimesqualifyingmyselfastoithavingbeentoldtome,andIcanproduceliterallydozensofpeoplein

Page 68: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

ColoradoandCaliforniawhoheardthestoryfromthesamesourceIgotit.Mr.Scullyhasnotbeenbrandedasahoaxer….Ihave,however,notonlybeenlibeledandliedaboutbutIhavebeenpicturedasthedeliberateauthorofthewholeidea—andtofollowitupthesamepeoplewhodefamedmeinprintthenframedupaprosecutionthatevenatthishourseemstomelikesomehorriblenightmarefromwhichIwillawakenintime.

Newton’sfuryoverJ.P.Cahn’s1952hitpieceinTrueMagazineneverabates,andthoughNewtonisgone,hefinallydoesrebutCahnaswepresentNewton’soriginalthoughtsaboutthemaliciousprosecutionandthetruemotiveforaKafkaesquetrialwithaguiltyverdictandnopenaltiesassessed,outsideofcourtcoststhatNewtonpaidwithoutasecondthoughtashewenttodinnerthatveryevening,reportedlyunfazedbywholething.Fromtoday’shindsight,Cahn’sarticleaboutNewtonandGeBauerisrevealedasathinlydisguisedvenomousattack,andtherewaspreciouslittletruthintheTrueMagazinearticle.Newtonsummeduphismotivationonpage233:“Theprinciple[sic]reasonI’mwritingthislifestoryistoletyou,thepublic,judgeforyourselfwhereIbelong,inthecriminalcategoryornot.”

ReaderswillrememberthatauthorDonaldKeyhoeinvestigatedtheAztecstorybutturnedhisbackonitasahoax,despitehisconvictionthattheflyingsaucerphenomenonwascertainlyrealandinterplanetary.Newtondidnotsparehimeither.Onpage228,Newtonlumpedtheadversariestogether:

…writtenstatementsbythatKeyhoeboywhocameouttoDenverearlyin1950[lookingintotheDenverlecturebysearchingforradioexecutiveKoehler],andthenaccordingtohisbossatthetime,thatex-carsalesmanPurdyoftheTruepulpfactorymagazine,toldalotofliesonhisownaccount.SomehowIneverfiguredKeyhoeauthoredtheliesPurdyprinted,buthebecameaccessory,butthenKeyhoehadtoeat,andsoitgoes.

Whyallthesemediocremudslingerswantedtotakeouttheirvenomonme—Keyhoe,Purdy,Cahn,Menzel,whataquartetofvultures—I’llneverknow.

Newtondidnotsparehiscourtroomadversary,either,sayingofHermanFlader(onpage228),“YoumustunderstandthatalargepercentageofthebusinesspeopleofDenverknowFladerforwhatheis,aruthlessviciouslowcharacterwithoutprinciple….OnceCahngottheDenverPosttopayhiswaytoDenver,hewenttoworkonFlader.Theyweretwokindredsouls.”

Asthe1953Denvertrialrecededintothebackground,andafterNewtontypedthedraftofhisautobiography,hespentmoreofthenext17yearswiththeNewtonOilCompanyanditssubsidiaryinterests,butheneverescapedthestigmaoftheso-called“AztecHoax.”EventheFBIkeptafileonhisactivities,thoughtheactivitiestheychronicledneverrosetothelevelofactionablecharges.Itwasobviousthateverythingtheywereconcernedabouthadmoretodowithflyingsaucersthancriminalactivity.

Thereislittlewonderthatthegovernmentwasconcerned,becauseNewtonobviouslyhadpersonalrelationshipswithscientistswhoseworkwasconsideredTopSecret,andNewtonwroteletterstoFrankScullyinthoseearlieryearsconfirmingthetruestoryofthe(plural)Dr.Gees.

TheenigmaofSilasNewtonemergesinthat,althoughhewasawealthymanwhoclaimedtohaveofficeswhereveroilcouldbefound,theonlytimeheeverachievednationalpublicitywasduringthe1953showtrialinDenver.EvenanInternetsearchwillnotrevealacompletebiographyoftheman.Itisallthemorepuzzlingtotheaveragepersonwhyamanwhohadeverythingwouldgetinvolvedintheflyingsaucermystery.Tounderstandthat,wehavelookedatthesectionofhisunpublishedlifestory,andnowwegetaglimpseofhisprivatecorrespondencewithScullythatincludedaletterincludedwithhisdonationtotheauthor’sunsuccessfulcampaignfortheCaliforniaAssemblyin1946.NewtonwasrespondingtoaletterfromScully’scampaignmanager.

Page 69: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

ThenextletteralsocameonNewtonOilCompanyletterheadfromtheexecutiveofficesintheEquitableBuilding,Denver,Colorado,September11,1950.ThisletterspecificallymentionsoneoftheDr.GeeswhowasinDenveratthattime.“WeputDoctorontheplaneyesterdayafternoonforPhoenix.Hecameuphereearlierintheweek,buthisbloodpoisoninggottheworstofhimandhehadtoreturnhome.”8

Newtonavoidedgivingthe“doctor”aname,butinthiscasehemayhavebeenreferringtoLeoGeBauer,becauseScullywasaskedtosendcopiesofthesaucerbooktohimatWesternRadio&EngineeringCo.,1915EastWashingtonStreet,Phoenix,Arizona.ThishelpsexplainwhythedebunkershavealwaystriedtosaythatGeBauerwastheonlyDr.Gee;however,thisbooksweepsawaymostofthosearguments.

ScullydescribedatlengthhiscorrespondencewithNewton;evenbeforetheymet,andbeforethetimeofthesaucers,NewtontriedtoencourageScullytowriteabiographyofthenotoriousFrankHarris,whoseribaldlifestylewaswellknownintheWWIIera.

BecauseNewtonandScullywereacquaintedbeforethetimeoftheAztecrecovery,itisclearthatNewtonwasthemanwhobroughttheflyingsaucertoScully.NewtontheoilmanhadanedgeonhiscompetitionbecausehehadaccesstoMagneticAnomalyDetectionDevices(doodlebugs)whosedesignemanatedfromthe“menofscience”withwhomhehadworkedbeforeWWIIandwhoseexpertisebecamepartofAmerica’santi-submarinewar,particularlyagainsttheJapaneseinthePacific.CertainlyLeoGeBauerwasoneofNewton’sfriends,andhewasalsoagovernmentemployeeduringthewar.Hemostprobablyknewandwaspartofthisgroupofstill-unnamedmenwhoconfidedinNewtonand,whenthesemenreceivedtheurgentcalltocometoNewMexicoforaTopSecretmissioninvolvingaflyingsaucerrecovery,revealedtheinformationtotheirlong-timeassociateandconfidantSilasNewton.

MoveaheadnowtoJuly2,1951,almostayearaftertheSeptember1950releaseofScully’sbombshellbook.ThelettersentfromNewtontoScullyisprobablythemostimportantpieceofevidencethattellsuswhatreallyhappened.Beforerevealingthecontentsofthatletter,recallthatevenScullyrealizedin1950thatwhatthescientiststoldhimin1949,inthemistakenbeliefthattheU.S.governmentwasplanningwithinafewmonthstotellthepublicthetruthaboutflyingsaucersfromsomewhereelse,posedgreatdangertothecareersofthe“menofscience.”Thus,heandNewtonmaintainedthesecrecyofthescientists’namestotheendofboththeirlivesandthusopenedthemselvesuptoanunparalleledattackontheirreputationsthroughproxiesofthegovernmentwhoweredesperatetopunishthosewhodishedthegreatestsecretinAmerica’shistory.

InhislonglettertoScullyinJuly1951,NewtonsaidexplicitlyinthethirdparagraphwhenhebegantotalkaboutCahn:“ThinkingIwastalkingtoresponsiblepeopleandtalkingofftherecord,Italkedfreely;however,Ifollowedthelineusedsince’49byrefusingtoidentifyanyofthescientistswhoknowtheinsideaboutsaucers.Thegeneralsubjectmatterofourtalkyoucoveredinthebook.”9Thereitisasplainlystatedasitevercouldbe:BothNewtonandScullyknewthepluralityoftheDr.Geesandtheyprotectedthosenamestotheend.

NewtonwasintroducedtoCahnatScully’shome,andwaspursuedbyhim,alongwithScottNewhalltoselltheflyingsaucerstory.ThiswasnottheCahnwhosebloodyliteraryhatchetsavagedNewtoninTrueMagazine,butamanwhobelievedintheAztecsaucerandwantedrightstothestory.HehadalreadytriedtogetthestoryfromScully,getting“no”forananswerin1950,andafterseveralmeetingswithCahnandNewhall,aschronicledintheletter,hefinallymetwithCahn,Newhall,theSanFranciscoChronicleeditor,andthenewspaper’smagazinesupplementeditor.

NewtontoldScullythat,whenCahndiscoveredthathewenttoSanFranciscooften,heprevaileduphimtomeetwithhimandNewhall.Theyhaddinner,andNewtonwrotethat“…thetalkwassaucers,saucers.ThethemeoftheirtalkwasthatIowedsomethingtotheworldandIshouldlettheChronicle

Page 70: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

guideme.”RememberthatthiswasthesameCahnwholatertriedtodestroyNewton,Scully,andthewholeflyingsaucerstorywhenitwasdeniedtohim.

AsNewtonwrotetoScullyaboutafurthermeetingwiththeChroniclestaffers,“Themeetinglasted11/2hours.Theywantedtheirgreatconservativepapertogettothebottom,documentthewholethingandiftheythoughtittruethangiveittotheworld.”Ironically,Newtonsaid,“Theywouldsatisfyanyonethattheywouldprotecttheidentityofallconcerned.”10

ThencamethepitchfromCahnandNewhall,showinghowseriousthenewspaperwasinowningrightstothestory.ReadthisinNewton’sownwords:

ButCahnkeptafterme,andonedayturnedupwithagreatcashoffersuchastheChroniclehadneverdreamedofintheirhistory.Theywantedmetocontactallthevariousconnections[thescientists],andshare$25,000plus50%royalty.Theywoulddepositsomewhere$15,000ingoodfaith.Inevereveninquiredastotheconditions.I,whenbroughtbeforeFanning[aChronicleeditor],toldthemthatatthefirstopportunityIwouldpresenttheproposaltothevariouspeopleandonmyreturntoSanFranciscoreporttheirreactions.Rush,rushwasthedailythemeofCahn.FanningwasabouttodropthewholethingandunlessitwasacloseddealbeforeSmith[believedtobethepublisher]returned,Smithwouldditchthewholeidea.FranklyIcan’tremembersuchhighpressuresalesmanship.Highhonor,absoluteprotectionforeveryone(authors’emphasis).11

Adiscussionofthesaucerartifactsisappropriatehere.ItiswellknownthatNewtonshowedCahnsomepartssupposedlytakenfromthedismantledAztecsaucer,andNewtonwroteaboutthe11/2-hourmeeting,“Imayhave,atthistalkatthepersistentrequestofCahnshowedsomeofthegearsthathehadheardabout.”12Followthiscarefully,becauseCahnlaterhadsomepiecesofmetalanalyzedandwastoldtheywerejustcommonhouseholdaluminum.

WhathappenedatalatermeetingtellsmoreaboutthecharacterofJ.P.CahnthanitdoesaboutSilasNewton.Newtonwrote:“AtoneoftheselattermeetingsCahninsistedthattheygetonemorelookatthegearsanddiscs[showntothemearlier].AbouttendayslaterIhadoccasiontoremovethegearsandIsawadischadbeenswitched.ItdidnotoccurthatthehonorablesoulofhonorChroniclestaffwouldstooptopettylarcenyorperhapsgrandforthatmatter.”13

Asbackground,thepartofthestoryaboutsaucerartifactsendedinCahn’smagazinearticlewhenhedenouncedthedisc(thathehadswitchedwiththepiecehestolefromNewton)wasafraud.Newton,forhispart,wasapparentlynotquitetheingénuethatCahnthought.ThepiecesthatNewtonshowedhimwerecopiesinthemselvesandso,whenCahnhadaringerespeciallymadeuptoswitchduringthatsecondvisittoNewton,hewasoutplayedbysomeonesmarterthanhewas.InChapter12,you’llseetherewasgreatinterestbytheAirForceOfficeofSpecialInvestigations(AFOSI)inpossibleartifactsthattheradioadvertisingsalesmanmighthavehadinhispossession,butnonewasfound.WithNewton,thereislittledoubtthathehadseenrealpiecesfromthesaucerandthathehadreplicasmade,knowingthattheoriginalswerepriceless.Wherethoseartifactsactuallywerelocatedispureconjecture,butScully’sdescriptionofthemsuggeststhatNewtonhadtherealdealatsometime.NewtonnevergaveCahnachancetostealrealarticlesfromspace.

AccordingtoNewton’s1951letter,hewasnowtrackingCahn’smovementsandknewthatCahnhadactuallytraveledtoPhoenixinsearchofLeoGeBauer.Thepurposeofthatjourney,asNewtonwrotetoScully,“Cahntoldyou(Scully)thatIhadtoldhim(Cahn)theidentityofDr.Gee,asbeingoneperson,andgavehisnameandaddress.Thatisacompletelie…Ishouldhaveknownthenhe(Cahn)couldnotbetrusted.”14

Page 71: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

AsfurtherproofthatNewtonbelievedtherealityoftheAztecsaucerstory,itisnecessarytoreadcarefullywhathewrotetoScullytowardtheendofthelongletter:

Sotheviciouscircleturns.Whatgetsmeiswhatistobegainedbyvilifyingme.There’senoughtroubleintheworld.Itdoesnotproveordisprovethesaucerstory.Ibelieveit,andI’vehadsufficientevidenceofallkinds(author’semphasis)thepast3yearstomakemeafirmbeliever….Ihopesomedaytomeetasaucerfacetoface.ButIwon’twiretheChronicle.Even[with]whattheyknowatpresent,Mr.Cahnnorhispaperareabletodisprovetheexistenceofsaucers.15

LittledidNewtonknowin1952thatCahnwouldturntoseekrevengefornotbeingsoldthestory;hewouldcontacttheFBItoseektheirhelpingprosecutingNewton—foranything—andtravelthroughouttheSouthwesttofindsomeonetoconspirewithinchargingNewton.

Withtheweightofthefederalgovernmentandabird-of-a-featherinHermanFlader,CahnsucceededinhavingNewtonarrestedandtransportedtoDenver,alongwithLeoGeBauer.Thetrial,asdescribedinthisbook,resultedinanalmost-directedjuryverdict,butthesentencewastoprobation,withNewtondunnedforcourtcosts.FromthemomenttheFBIbeganlookingintoNewton’sactivities,untiltheirfinalreportonhimin1970,inwhichthevictimofasupposedminingscamintheSilverCity,NewMexico,areapreferredtoworktheminingrightssoldtohimratherthanfileacomplaint,everydifficultyfacedbythemillionairewasrelatedtoflyingsaucersandflyingsaucersonly.

AsforthecommonlyrepeatedstoryaboutNewtonbeingaconman,thatisallbasedonthepettyvendettabyCahn,whowasunabletoprytherightstotheAztecstoryfromNewton.Theoilmanwassowealthythathehadnoneedtoswindleanyone,andsimplelogicmustintrude.AccordingtoanOctober31,1930,wirestoryintheHavre,Montana,newspaper,atthetimeofhismarriagetosportswriterNanO’Reilly,Newtonwasworthapproximately$40million,andoncepaid$20millioncashforanIndianaoilproperty.16FromhisowncorrespondenceitisknownthatSilasNewtonheldtohisbeliefintheflyingsaucerstory,andheneversoughttobenefitfromthestory.HecouldhavesoldthestorytotheSanFranciscoChroniclefor,whatwouldbeforhimapiddlingsumof$25,000plusroyalties.Hewalkedaway,andhecouldhaverecantedandallowedCahntowritethe“Scullywasduped”story,buttherewasnosalethere,either.

Thus,theenigmaofSilasNewtonismulti-layered.Herewasamanofmeans,whowaswealthyintheextremethroughtheGreatDepression.Hewasverywelleducatedingeophysicalsciencesandwaswildlysuccessfulinfindingoil.Hewasaworld-classgolfer,apatronoftheartswhoreadVariety,andafterreadingthecolumnistFrankScully,madecontactwithhimwhenneitherofthemknewwhatfatehadinstore.Newtonwasagenerousmanwhounhesitatinglygavehiswife$1milliontospendasshewished,andhiswrittenworkisliterateandexpressive,nevergiventocoarselanguage,evenwhenhewasobviouslyunderpressurefromhisdetractors.HewasathomeinthefinesthotelsinAmericaandprobablyatthebestcountryclubsaswell.Yet,afterhelearnedabouttheflyingsaucersfromhisfriendLeoGeBauer,andfromtheseveralgovernmentresearchscientistswhosawthelandedAztecsaucer,hislifewouldneverbethesame.

Despitethis,heneverrecantedhisbelief.TherewaslittledoubtthatthescientistshadshownhimmaterialthatdidnotcomefromEarth,anditwassuchaprofoundexperiencethatheprotectedthenamesofthosescientistsandwenttogreatlengthstomakesurethatnopieceofthealiencraftendedupinthehandsofthewrongpeople.HehadnoideathatthesecretforceofthenascentU.S.governmentwasarrayedagainsthim,determinedthattheAmericanpeoplecouldnoteveracceptthephenomenonthatwasbeingdisplayedinfrontoftheireyes,theircameras,theirradarsets,andtheircommonsense.

Page 72: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Inhislastyears,SilasNewtontookupresidenceinDeming,NewMexico,andheopenedanassayofficeinSilverCity,NewMexico,in1970.HehadseveralprojectsinsouthernNewMexico,includingtheexploitationofminingclaimsandthebuildingofahydroponicsfarm.Newtondiedattheageof85inahospitalinLosAngeles,succumbingtopneumonia.Therecognitionforhisexcellenceandhiscourageinbringingtheflyingsaucerstorytothepublicislongoverdue.

Fromthisbook,eventhecasualreaderwillrealizethatthebulkoftheonlineinformationaboutNewtonisincorrect,basedonthedistortedarticlewrittenbysomeonewho,himself,hadcovetedtheflyingsaucerexposéandwasarejectedsuitor.

AsafinalnoteaboutNewton’srelationshiptoScully,NewtonwroteintheclosetohisJuly2,1951,letter:“Ionlyhavethistosayinclosing.Yourstoryhasbeentold.Greatgoodhascomefromit,andnothingtheChroniclecandocanchangethat.”17AndnowSilasNewton’sstoryhasfinallybeengivenafairhearing.

TypewrittentranscriptionoffourpagesofaletterfromSilasNewtontoFrankScully,July2,1951.

Page 73: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up
Page 74: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up
Page 75: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up
Page 76: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

7

BirdsofaFeather“Pflock”Together

“SilasNewtonandLeoGeBauerwereknownconmen;therefore,theAzteccrashstorymusthavebeenacon.”

—KarlPflock,March20021

“TheAzteccrashwasnothingmorethanaP-38thatranoutoffuelandlandednearCedarHill,andthenwastakenapartandtruckedbacktothebase.”

—KarlPflock,March20022

“HartCanyonRoaddidnotexistbackin1948;therefore,theAzteccrashdidnothappen.”

—DaveThomas,March20003

“TheAztecUFOcrashwasahoaxtodrawattentiontoAztecinordertogetaraillineintotownforthenewcannery.”

—Anonymous

Overthepast60years,ithasbeenpopulartodismisstheAztecIncidentasahoax,oranon-event.Asweaddressedintheearlierchaptersofthisbook,thestorywassquelchedalmostasfastasitwasmadepopularbyScully’sbest-seller.Decadeslater,asthestorywasreborn,newskepticsanddebunkerswouldappearfromnowheretodiscreditthestory.AswediscussedintheChapter5,someoftheseskepticswererelentless.

Inthischapter,wewilllookatnotonlythedisinformationconcerningAztec,butalsothecharacterswhotriedtokilltheAztecstoryandwhoonlyprovethattheydidlittleornoresearchintheprocess.

IfyouaskresidentsofAztec,ortheFourCornersarea,youwould,ofcourse,getamixofresponsesastowhethertheAztecincidentactuallyhappened.Somedidnotlivethereduringthattime;otherssaythatyes,itdidhappen;otherslaughindisbeliefthatyoucouldevenasksuchafoolishquestion.Stillothersjustsmileandsaytheycouldnotcareonewayortheother.ThisisthewayAmericansseemtodealwithhistory,dependingupontheirfieldsofinterest.

HereinNorthCarolina,wehave,notfarfromthecityofCharlotte,anationalparkcalledKingsMountain,aswellasanearbytownofthesamename.Mostresidentsoftheareadon’tknoworcarewhathappenedhere.Thousandsdrivebyeveryday,asitisnearInterstate85,headingsouthtowardAtlanta.Manywholiveinthisareamayvisittheparkonhotsummerdays,oroncooldaysinthefall,butmostremainunawarethatagreatRevolutionaryWarbattletookplaceonthesitethatforeshadowedthevictoryoftheColonists.Theproblemmaynotbewithhistory,butperhapsthewaythatitistaughtintoday’sschools.

Untilrecently,theAztecstoryremainedcontroversial,asonemightexpect.WithinthecircleoftheUFOorflyingsaucerresearchers,itwasaconsideredastorytoavoid.EitherbecauseAztecwasrifewithcontroversy,asmostUFOcrashstoriesare,orbecauseithadearlyonearnedtoprankasbeing

Page 77: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

dangerousforresearcherstosupport,manycertainlyrememberedwhatitdidtoFrankScully’sreputationinthe1950s.Itiswelltorememberthatthiswas28yearsbeforetheRoswellcrashwasre-discovered.

BecausetheAztecIncidentcertainlyfallsintotheUFOorflyingsaucercategory,weneedtouseachaptertoexplainthethreecategoriesofinvestigatorsinanyresearch:theresearchers,theskeptics,andanothercategoryofpeoplethathascometobeknownasthedebunkers.Now,skepticsareimportantandusefulinanyfieldiftheyhavedonealltheresearchthattheprimaryresearcherhasdone.Skepticsactasavaluablefoilforresearcherandplaythedevil’sadvocateroletoaddthoughttotheprocess.

Thosewhobeginamissionwithahypothesis,onewayortheother,areintroublefromthestart;theywilleitherprovetheirpettheoryorabandonthequest.WhenwestartedresearchingtheAztecstory,I(Scott)reallydidnotcarewhichwaythestorywent;Ijustwantedtoseeifthestorywasanoldwives’tale,oriftherewastheresometruthtoit.Itdidnotmattertomeonewayortheotheratthetime.

In1987,whenIstarted,ithadbeen39yearssincetheeventallegedlytookplace,andprovingitonewayoranotherwasalongshot.TheonlythingIcouldhopeforwastodothebestjobIcouldwithwhateverresourcesIcouldmuster.

So,wediscoveredthatbeingagoodresearcherisbeingagoodskepticatthesametime.Ithinkthetwogohandinhand,eventhoughtheskepticsalwayslooklikevillainstotruebelievers.Keepingthingsinperspective,bothsideshavetodooriginalresearchalongtheway,andsometimesthat’swheretheproblemstarts.

Suchproblemsashowa100-foot-diameterdisccouldbetransportedwouldhavetobeaddressed,andChapter10resolvesthatproblem.Thatsaid,wehavetomakeanassumptionthatthisisapossibility.Asweresearched,wefoundthatalmosteverythingScullyputintohisbookisverifiedthroughoriginalresearch.Wespentalotofmoneydoingresearch,butithadtobedoneasinrecognitionoftheadage“extraordinaryclaimsrequireextraordinaryproof.”

Whatannoysmostresearchersandskepticsalikeisthedebunker.Evenwiththemostpersuasiveevidence,thedebunkeralwayshasanattack,butseldomhasabelievablealternativesolutiontotheproblem.This,ofcourse,isthecasewithAztec.LetuslookatthemostcommondebunkerclaimsagainstAztecandcomparethemwithwhatresearchhasproven,aswellaswheretheevidenceprovesthedebunkerwrong.

Someskepticsareactuallydebunkersindisguise.Thesearepeoplewhowritenastythingsaboutotherpeople’sresearch,andevengototheextentofmakingthingsuptofittheirbeliefsystems.Mostofthetime,theyhidebehindeitherafalseclaimoraspurioustitleinthehopetheycancloakthemselvesincredibilitybaseduponthenameoftheirgroup,theirpublication,ortheirassociationwiththegovernment.

Debunkerscanbefoundalmosteverywhereinlife.Theyplaytheirpartinpolitics,sports,certainlyreligion,andjustaboutanytopicofconcernorinterest.Asaresultofinformationclutter,weareprobablyallguiltyofwritingoffasubjectbeforewehaveexaminedtheevidence,butdebunkersarededicatedtotheircraft.Overtheyears,sincereskepticshavequestionedthepossibilitythataflyingsaucerlandedinHartCanyon.Somehavebroughtupsomebelievableargumentsthatmadeusgobacktoourresearchandworkharder,notjusttoaddresstheargumentbutperhapstoseeifwehavechronicledthehistoricalfactspreciselyenough.

Thesearetwoimportantstepsinseparatingthefactsfromfiction.Keepinmindthatthedebunkerhastheluxuryofnothavingtoexaminetheevidencebutmerelyconcoctsacerebraltheorythatsoundsgood.WecanrememberwhenflyingsaucerswerewrittenoffbydebunkerDonaldMenzelas“swampgas,”“flocksofbirds,”and“temperatureinversion,”allofwhichnowseemridiculousinretrospect.4CaptainRuppelt,ofProjectBlueBook,suggestedthattheFarmingtonArmadaof1950couldhavebeenfrozenfragmentsofaSkyhookballoonfloatingintheatmosphere,whichwasmorecreativethanthe“cottonwoodtreefluff”proposedbyastatepolicemanatthetime.

Page 78: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Becausewetitledthischapter“BirdsofaFeather‘Pflock’Together”itmustbeemphasizedthatthespellingisnotatypo.ThelateKarlPflockwasawell-knownUFO,orflyingsaucer,“investigator.”KarlandI(Scott)agreedonmanythingsinlife,includingpolitics,sports;wesharedapassionforoldguns,andwebothfavoredourrighttoownthem.IguessyoucansaywewerebothontheConservativesideofthepoliticalspectrum.WhenitcametotheAztecIncident,wewereasfarapartastwosidescouldeverbe.AtthetimeIwonderedifKarlwasaclassicskeptic,orifhewasadebunker.Ithinkthischapterwillclearthatup.

TheAztecSymposiumEraSuzanneandIfirstmetKarlwhenhewasgenerousenoughtocometotheannualAztecUFO

SymposiumheldeveryyearinAztecaspartofafundraisingcampaignforthetownlibrary.Thelibrarywasgeneratingareputationforschedulingsomefascinatingspeakersatthisevent,andIwasfortunateenoughtositasanadviserofsortstohelpthemsecurethesespeakersfortheevent.

LeanneHathcockstartedtheAztecSymposiumafterhearingabouttheAztecflyingsaucerincidentandthinkingitwasaninterestinganduniquewaytoraisemoneyforanewandmuch-neededlibraryinAztec.ImetLeannein1998whensheorganizedthefirstUFOSymposium,andwesharedaninterestinthestory.BecauseIhadbeenresearchingtheAztecstoryformorethan10yearsatthetime,IcontactedherabouttheSymposiumtoseewhatinformationsheunearthed.SheeitheraskedmeorIinvitedmyselfintotheSymposium,notasaspeaker,butmoreasahelper,asshehadavolunteerstaffofpeople.TheAztecUFOSymposiumwasheldeveryMarchthrough2011tocommemoratetheflyingsaucerlanding,anditwasalwaysworthvisitingAztecthatweek.

Atthe1998event,Ifirstmetmywife,Suzanne.SuzannehostedaradioshowinFarmingtononKENNradio.Herafternoonshowwasverypopularandboastedmanylisteners,andshehadaninterestinsupportingtheAztecPublicLibrarythroughitsUFOSymposiumfundraiser.Shewasthen,assheisnow,openmindedaboutawidevarietyofsubjects,andherattitudeandsubjectvarietymadeherradioshowsuccessful.SuzannebroughtsomeofthespeakersontohershowthedaybeforetheSymposiuminordertogivetheeventsomepromotionalexposure.HershowboostedSymposiumattendance,whichworkedverywellforthelibrary.Suzannethushadtheopportunitytogettoknowthespeakersandmeetnewoneseveryyear.

LeannehadmadethedecisiontohavebothUFOresearchersandskepticssquareoffatthesesymposiums;so,in2002,KarlPflockwasselectedtospeakontheskeptic’ssideandtalkabouthowAztecwasanon-event.BecauseIhadagreatinterest,andhavingreadhisrésumé,IwaseagertohearwhatKarlhadtosay.Karl’srésuméwasimpressive.HehadbeenwithNICAP(NationalInvestigationsCommitteeonAerialPhenomena)whenitwasanactiveresearchorganization,andhehadbeeninvolvedwithMUFON(MutualUFONetwork)afterhiscareerinthemilitaryandwiththeCIA.Withthosecredentials,Iexpectedhimtobemostinformative.KarlhadlittleornointerestinAztecuntilitstartedgettingsomepressasaresultofLeanne’swork,aswellthatofthe“FriendsoftheLibrary”groupthatboostsfundraising.

Karlcametothelectern,andthefirstthingthathehadtoofferwastheregurgitatedinformationfrom1953aboutSilasNewtonandLeoGeBauergettingintotroublewiththecourtsysteminDenver,andhowthismustequatetothefactthatAztecwasahoax!Icouldnotbelieveit.ThiswascomingfromamanwhohadNICAPandMUFONonhisrésumé,andhewaswritingofftheAztecflyingsaucerbecauseofanunrelatedminorcourtcaseinColorado?Thebabywasbeingthrownoutwiththebathwateragain.

Karl’ssecondattackonAztecwashisclaimtohavebeenprivytoadiarywrittenbySilasNewtonthatsupposedlyadmittedtheentireAzteccrashstorytobeahoax.Karlcouldnotproducethepersonhemetandwhohadsoughthimouttolethimonlyreadthediaryandnotcopyit.Karlsaidhetooknotesfrom

Page 79: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

thisdiary.KarladmittedduringhisvideotapedlecturetotheUFOSymposiumin2002thatheneverknewwhothissecretpersonwas,howtocontacthim,orwhetherornotthediarywasreal.Thediary,Karlclaimed,exposedAztecasnothingmorethanSilasNewtonpullingoffahoax,andtheonlymysterywaswhythemilitaryshowedupatNewton’sresidence,tellinghimthattheyknewtheAztecstorywas“bunk”buttokeepupthegoodwork.KarldescribedthisasthemilitarypossiblytryingtocoverupanotherUFOcrashrecoveryorwantingtothrowsomebodyacurveball.HereisKarl’sexplanationinhisownwords5:

In1998,undercuriouscircumstances,IwasmadeprivytoafascinatingdocumentaboutoneofthemostcontroversialcasesoftheGoldenAgeofFlyingSaucers,theso-calledAzteccrashof1948.Ihadlittlemorethanpassinginterestinthecaseuntil1998,whenasource,whoinsistsoncompleteanonymity,showedmeahandwrittentestament,setdownbythekeyplayerinthisamazing,oftenamusing,truth-is-stranger-than-fictionepisode.

ItseemsthatwhatIwasshownwas…somethingpennedbyslyoldSilasNewton,butwhatcanwesayabouttheveracityofitscontent?AftertheDenverPostrevealedhewasScientistX,NewtonreceivedtwovisitorsathisNewtonOilCompanyofficeinDenver.ThesemenclaimedtobewithahighlysecretU.S.governmententity,whichtheyrefusedtoname.WeretheyAirForceOSIagents,whoNewtonhypedintosomethingmoremysterious?Newtonwrites,“Theygrilledme,triedtopokeholesinmystory.HadnotroubledoingitandlaughedinmyfaceaboutthescientificmistakesImade.Theyneversaidso,butIcouldtelltheyweretryingtofindoutifIreallyknewanythingaboutflyingsaucersthathadlanded.DidnottakethosefellowslongtodecideIdidnot.ButIsureknewtheydid.”

Pflockexpandedfurther,andthetalebecameevenmoreintriguing:“Newton’svisitorstoldhimtheyknewhewaspullingascamandthengavehimwhatmayhavebeenthesurpriseofhislife.‘Thosefellowssaidtheywantedmetokeepitup,keeptellingtheflyingsaucerstoryandthattheyandthepeopletheyworkedforwouldlookoutformeandforLeo.IcouldjustgoondoingwhatIalwaysdidandnotworryaboutit’.”

Pflockasked:“DidtheU.S.governmentorsomeoneassociatedwithituseNewtontodiscredittheideaofcrashedflyingsaucerssoarealcapturedsaucerorsaucerscouldbemoreeasilykeptunderwraps?Wasthisactuallynothingtodowithrealsaucersbutinsteadsomesortofpsychologicalwarfareoperation?”

Thatnightafterweallgotbacktothehotel,IquestionedKarlabouthowthisstoryhadanycredibilityatall,andIquestionedhisresearchabilityinevenmentioninga“secret”personwhomKarlclaimedhecouldnotnameorcontact.IaskedKarlifhehadcomparedthediarytoSilasNewton’shandwriting,andKarlsaidhecouldnotfindanycomparisonstodosuchathing.KarlcouldseethatIwasbecomingamusedbyhowheignoredhisformerIntelligencetraininginallowingsuchunsupportedorunverifiedstatements,sohebackeddownandtoldmethatthesourcewasSilasNewton’snephew,whohadendedupwiththediary.

IthenaskedKarlwhythenephewwouldendupwiththediarywhenSilashadsonswhowerestillaliveatthetime.Karllookedasthoughhehadeatenrottenegg,ormoreappropriately,waswipingeggoffhisface.KarlhadneverresearchedNewton’sfamilybuttookthesourceatfacevalue.MyconclusionremainsthatnodiaryexistsandthatthefakeNewtonstorywaseitherfabricatedorKarlhimselfwasthevictimofadisinformationhoax.Fortunately,aswewritethisbook,thereareadistinctfewwhohavecopiesofSilasNewton’shandwritingandtypedportionsofNewton’smemoirs.Sufficeittosay,inthedocumentsprovedtocomefromNewtonhimself,themanstoodbytheflyingsaucerstorytotheend.

Karl’scredibilitywithmewasfallingfasterthanSkylabatthispoint.Ihadcometolikehim,butgivenhisbackground,Ihadhopedforalotmoreresearchandmuchlesswoolbeingpulledoverpeople’seyes.

Page 80: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Keepinmind,IwashopingthatKarlwasbringingnewinformationtotheAztecIncident,buthiscredibilitywasnowinquestion.KarllivednorthofAlbuquerque,twotothreehoursfromthetownofAztec.ThedayafterKarlspoke,aSunday,weloadeduptheHertzrentalvansandheadedtothecrashsitewithallthespeakersandguestswhowantedtoattendacrashsitetourandforagrouppictureforthosewhodesired.

WithmedrivingtothecrashsiteandKarlinthevan,Iaskedhimwhenhehadfirstvisitedthecrashsite,ashelivedrelativelyclose.Tomycompletesurprise,Karltoldmethathehadneverbeentothecrashsiteandhadnoknowledgeofitslocation.Ihadtopauseforamoment,wonderinghowanyonecouldclaimtobeanexpertonsomethingandneverhavetakenashortdrivetothelocationandatleasttakealook.Ifitwerenotforawell-fastenedseatbelt,IthinkIwouldhavefallenoutofthevan.Keepinmind,Ihadbeentothecrashsitemorethan60timesatthatpointin2002,andIlivemorethan1,800milesfromAztec,nottwotothreehoursaway.

AnotherstatementmadebyKarlattheSymposiumwasthattheAzteccrashwasamisunderstandingbythelocalsregardingaP-38LockheedLightningthatmadeanemergencylandingonhighway550,northofAztec,inthetownofCedarHill.AccordingtoKarl’sunrevealedsources,theP-38hadrunlowonorpossiblyoutoffuelinMarch1948andmadeanemergencylandingonthehighway.Themilitaryarrived,disassembledtheP-38,andhauleditawayonflatbedtruckstothefighterplane’shomebase.Itookexceptiontothisclaim,asIdidnotknowifanyP-38swerestillflyingin1948.Thetwin-enginefighterplanewasalsousedasabomberescortduringWWII.Eventhoughitwasonlythreeyearsafterthewar,manyplaneswerescrappedwithinashorttimeafterthewarbecauseofnewer,fasteraircraftinthedawningjetage.

OnmynexttriptoMaxwellAirForceBase,inMontgomery,Alabama,IdecidedtolookupanyincidentreportsconcerningaP-38Lightningoranyotheraircraftthatcrashedormadeanemergencylandingwithin100milesofthearea.AsIexpected,wecouldnotfindanyP-38sevenintheAirForceinventoryin1948,oranycrashreportsorincidentreportsconcerninganythingwithintheareathatwouldfitthisdescription.WeevencheckedtoseeifanyweretransferredtoaNationalGuardunitandcameupwithnothing.

TheAirForcekeepsvoluminoushistoricalreportsatMaxwellAirForceBaseonallaircraft.Justtoclearupanymattersconcerningincidentreportsandaccidentreports,letmeassureyouthereisabigdifference.

Ifapilotranoutoffuelwhileflyingahigh-pricedgovernment“asset”—inthiscase,afighter/escortaircraft—thereportwouldbelong,withquestionssuchasWhydidthishappen?Whowasflyingtheaircraft?Howdidthepilotgetintothepositiontorunoutoffuelinthefirstplace?Wasbadweatherinvolved?Wasthepilottraininguptodate?Wasthemaintenanceontheaircraftuptodate?Wasitamechanicalproblem(fuelleak,enginerunningtoorich,etc.)?

Thepaperworkonapiloterrorisalmostoverwhelming.Thefollow-upreportsinclude“correctiveactions”suchasmorepilottrainingandbettermaintenanceontheaircraft,andthelistandreportsgoonlongenoughtopaperthewallsofthePentagon!

Now,ifapilotfailsinhisorherperformance,andtheaircraftandpilot(assets)arebothlost,thepaperworkismuchlesscomplicated.Thereportreadssomethinglikethis:Whatcausedthecrash?Whodied?Whatwashisrank?Wouldfurthertraininghavepreventedthis?Whatmaintenanceshouldbereviewedinthefuture?Thepaperworkisaverysmallpilebycontrast.

Anyway,noreportswerefoundofanaccidentreportorincidentreportforthattimeframethatinanywaycouldbea“misunderstanding”withthelocals.DuringoneofourmanytripstoNewMexicoin2008,SuzanneandIwereabletotalkwithsomeoftheresidentsofCedarHill,whichisbetweenAztecandDurango.NobodyinCedarHillremembersanyaircraftmakinganytypeoflanding,crash,orwhatever,at

Page 81: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

anytime.Oneoftheladieswespoketosaid,“Theywouldhaveplayedonituntilthemilitaryhauleditaway!”

LetussupposeforaminutethataP-38LockheedLightninghadrunoutoffuelinthelate1940sor1950s.Letussupposeforaminutethatanyincidentreportorcrashreporthadbeenmis-filedorlost,andwewerenotabletolocateone,andletussupposethatwedidnottalktotherightpeopleinCedarHillin2008.

ThehighwayheadingnorthfromAztectoDurangowasatwo-laneroadin1948.Lookingatmapsofthattimeperiodandcomparingthemwithtoday’smaps,weseeverylittlechangeotherthantheroad,likemostof550,hasbeenwidenedtofourlanesinmostareas.Thesectionofroadhasmanystraightsectionsthatrunalmostduenorthtowardthestateline.AscanbeseenfromtheLockheedspecifications,theP-38required900feetofrunwayminimallyloaded,meaningalightloadoffuelandweapons.AfullyloadedP-38requiredjustlessthan1,080feetofrunwaywithzeroflapsandzerowindonahardsurface.Mosttake-offsrequired“NoFlap”fortheabove-mentioneddistance;somepilotswouldgo“FullFlap”forashortertakeoff.IttooktheP-38about11secondsatfullthrottleonthetwinenginestoreachthe100to110mphtakeoffspeedatsealevel.WiththealtitudeoftheAztec/CedarHillareaatabout6,500feetabovesealevel,thiswouldorcouldrequireslightlymoretimeandrunway.

TheonlyobstructionswouldhavebeentheDurangorailroadbridgethatwaseastofthehighwaybutwellenoughofftheroadnottoobstructanylanding.Utilitylines,asfewastherewere,wouldnotbeaconcern.Themainstraightsectionswouldhavebeenaminimumof1,800feetwithsomesectionsmorethan2,500feet,orroughlyhalfamile.Anyqualifiedpilotcouldeasilylandandtakeoffgiventhesepavedroadlengthsin1948.

Theclaimoftakingtheaircraftapartinsectionsandflatbedtruckingtheaircraftawayseemshighlyunlikelyaswell.TheDurangoAirportwasopenin1948andhadtheproperaviationfuelor(highoctaneavgas)requiredtofuelhighperformanceaircraftsuchastheP-38.TheairportfromwhereKarlsaiditwasparkedisapproximately23milesaway.TothewestistheFarmingtonAirportthatalsohashigh-octaneavgas.Thatairportisapproximately33milesfromthesupposedemergencylandingsite.TheAirForcewasnostrangertolandingonhighwaysorunimprovedroadsin1948.DuringthetrainingforWWII,thiswasstandardpractice,asdescribedinChapter8,whichdocumentsaP-80fighterjetroutinelytakingofffromU.S.Highway380nearCarrizozo,NewMexico,in1947,unfortunatelycrashingintothetown.TheclaimofaP-38landingandbeingmistakenforarecoveredflyingsaucerissoweakthatitcandismissedoutofhand.Also,noonehasfoundwitnessestobackupthisstory,norcouldwefindanysuchreferenceinlocalpapersofthetime.

Later,welearnedthattheP-38hadbeentransformedintoaT-6trainerthatranoutoffuelandhadtobedismantledandcartedofftoitsbase—astoryevenmoreridiculousandrequiringevenlesstimetodismiss.Thestorybecomesevenmoreunsupportable.Thereisnoneedtohaulawayanyaircraftrunningoutoffuelwhentherearetwofullserviceairportswithinashortdrivebyarancher’spickuptruck.Thisisalsopresumingthatsuchaircraftwouldn’tprefertolandatoneofthetwoairstrips.

Thefirstself-described“scientist”toattacktheAztecflyingsaucerstoryattheAztecUFOSymposiumwasDaveThomas.Davewasgenerousindonatinghisweekendtothefundraiserandtobeaguestspeaker.Hewasalsoanopenflyingsaucerskeptic,butwashejustadebunker?DavemadethestandardclaimthattheAztecstorywasmadeupbytwoconvictedconmen,sothestory,accordingtoDave,wasunbelievableatbest.Plus,DaveaddedthestatementthatHartCanyonRoaddidnotexistin1948,againmakingthestoryofadisccrashcompletelyimpossible.ThepartaboutHartCanyonRoadthrewmeforanArkansasloop,andapparentlyothersinthecrowdaswell.Dave’scommentaboutHartCanyonRoadnotbeingtherein1948drewlaughterfromlongtimeAztecresidentsinthecrowd.

WhatDavedidnotrealize,becausehehaddonenoresearch,wasthefactthatseveralfamilieslived

Page 82: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

onHartCanyonRoadin1948,andsomeweresittingintheaudience!ItwaseitherthatdayorafewdayslaterwhenIreceivedacopyofanarticlethatreportedthelaststagecoachrobberyinSanJuanCounty,andpossiblyallofNewMexico,wasonHartCanyonRoadjustbeforetheturnofthe20thcentury.

IfoundanoldmapoftheSanJuanarea,andIendedupatwhatistodayoneofourfavoriteantiquestoresinNewMexico.ThestoreislocatedonCentralAvenueinAlbuquerqueandiscalled“CowboysandIndians.”Theyspecializeinantiquesaswellasoldmapswhentheycangetthem.Tomysurprise,theyhadtwomapsthatfitmyneeds.ThemapsweremadebytheRandCompany,onedated1889andtheother1900.ThemapsareinexcellentshapeandclearlyshowHartCanyonRoad.HartistheDutchwordfordeer,andHartCanyonisstillanexcellentplacetohuntmuledeerinthe

areatoday,asitwasacenturyago.TheironyofthestoryisthatCowboysandIndianswasonlyafewblocksawayfromwhereDaveThomasworkedin2000,theyearhespokeattheAztecUFOSymposium.DavehassincewrittenotherskepticalarticlesaboutAztec,aslateasa2010editionofSkepticalInquirermagazine,inwhichhestillusesthesamereasoningthatfitshisestablishedscientificworldview,whichisdifferentfromusingthescientificmethodtoinvestigateone’sworldview.

DaveThomasisawonderfulperson,andwereallyenjoyedthefactthathedonatedhisweekendtoparticipate,butIthinkmanypeoplewerehopingforalittlemorethantwounsupportedstatementsfollowedbyastagemagictrickheperformedfortheaudience.TheoldRandmapsnowhanginoneofourfamilyroomshereinNorthCarolina.SuzanneandIhadthemmattedandframed.Weseethemeverydayasareminderhowimportantitistopayattentiontodetailinourresearch.DavecametoAztectoshowtheskeptic’ssideoftheAztecstory,butitturnedouttobeanexerciseindebunking.

Anotherclaimmadebysomedebunkersistheonethatgoessomethinglikethis:TheAztecUFOstorywasmadeuptodrawattentiontoAztecsotheycouldgetarailroadlineintotownforthenewcannery.

Ihavehadthise-mailedtomeforyearsinmanydifferentforms.BecauserailroadspecialistBillMetzgergoesintogreatdetailabouttherailroadcomingtoAztecinChapter10,itisnotnecessarytocoverthishere.Itseemsthatflyingsaucerstoriesaresupposedtomakeadifferenceastowhetheratowngetsarailroadornot.JimMarrswaschallengedbythiscommentwhenhewasdoingresearchonthe1897Aurora,Texas,incidentinwhichastrangeobjectsupposedlycrashed,killingtheoccupant,whowaslatersupposedlyburiedinthetowncemetery.Itwasclaimedthatthestorywasusedtodrawattentionsothelittletowncouldgetrailservice,butsuchwasnottobeforAurora.Thatcrashstoryisstilldebated,andevidenceisstillbeingsoughtbymodernresearchers.Aurorastillhasnorailline.ItissafetosaythatAztecalreadyhadaraillinein1948,andacanneryaswell.

ThediscoveryofthevastoilandgasreservesintheFourCornersareabroughtanexplosionofinterestandmanyoilspeculators,aswellaslargeinvestmentsofcashthatfueledtheeconomywellbefore1948.AflyingsaucerstorywasnotneededtobringattentiontoAztec,whichisalsotheSanJuanCountyseat.TheareagotplentyofattentionfrompeoplesuchasthePhillipsBrothers,foundersofPhillipsPetroleum,ElPasoGas,andahostofwildcattersandindependentoilfieldspeculatorssuchasTomBolackandothers.

Concoctingaflyingsaucerstoryin1948Aztecwouldbringnothingtotheeconomictable,sotospeak.Theoilfieldeconomicswerethen,astheyaretoday,amajorpartofthearea’seconomy.Withexceptionofthenever-endingfluctuationofgasolineprices,theoilindustrystillflourishesasthisbookiswritten.

TheV-2RocketVersionofAztecOverthedecades,manyvariedstorieshaveemergedastowhatcrashedorlandedontopofamesain

HartCanyon.TheresearchtookustoDurango,Colorado,tointerviewJimBowraandhislovelywife,Bernice,on

March24,2015,attheirhome.6JimandBernicearehard-corehistoryfans,andJimservedintheNavy

Page 83: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

duringWWII,histimeatseaspentonaLibertyship,theSSPilotButte,andtwodifferentT-2tankers.AfterthewarhewenttoworkforhisfatherrunningaprintingpressindowntownAztec.SoonJimsaw

thehandwritingonthewallforthedimfutureofsmall-townnewspapers,andhewentbacktoschooltoearnhisdoctorate.

ItisJim’scontentionthattheAztecIncidentisnothingmorethanaveryconfusedstory,highlyexaggeratedovertheyears.Jim’sfather,George,hadtoldhimthestoryfrom1948,anditwasalmosttheexactstorywehavealreadytold,exceptthatheremovedthetermflyingsaucerandinjectedV-2rocket.

SuzanneandIwereincompleteaweasJimexplainedhowlocalsweresummonedtothecrashsite(Jimclaimsthelocationwasfarthereastthanthesitewehavealreadyestablished).Oilfieldworkers,ranchers,andlawenforcementwereallpresentthatday.Aquickandsecretdisassemblyhadtotakeplace.EventherancherwhowasleasingthelandfromtheBureauofLandManagement,amanbythenameofHomer(Fred)Bixler,wassworntosecrecy.GettingthisTopSecretobjectoffthemesaandbackintomilitaryhandswastheforemostpriorityaswellaskeepingitsecretthatV-2rocketscouldberainingdownonsmallNewMexicotowns.This,accordingtoJim,wastheMarch1948crashthathascausedsomuchconfusion.HisfatherexplainedtohimthattheV-2wasdestroyedforthemostpartandthewreckagewasquicklycartedaway.GeorgealsoexplainedtoJimthatthiswasnotsomethingthegovernmentwantedthepublictoknow,sokeepingtheV-2storyburiedwasaveryhighpriority.

Jimalsoaskedifwekneweveryonewhoclaimedtobepresentthatday.Wetoldhimaboutsomeoftheyoungoilfieldworkers,onlyreferringtoarancherandhiswife,theKnightfamilywhorancattleinHartCanyonandelsewhereinthecounty.JimfilledintheblankswiththefactthatitwasmostlikelyNewtonKnight,whosesonlaterbecameagamewarden.

Here’salittlehistoryontheV-2forallwhomaynotknowmuchaboutthem.TheGermangovernmentbeganlookingatalternateweaponsintheearly1930sthatwouldnotviolatetheTreatyofVersailles.MajorGeneralWalterDornbergerwaschosentoresearchthefeasibilityofusingrockets.DornbergerpickedayoungengineerbythenameofWernhervonBrauntodeveloptheearlyforerunnersoftheV-2,theA-2,andtheA-4.

BythebeginningofWWII,Hitlerhadapprovedtheprogramandmissileswerebeingbuiltandlaunchsiteswerebeingbuiltatanalarmingrate.Duringthewar,itisbelievedthatover5,700V-2rocketswerebuiltatvariousfacilities.Themissileshadarudimentarygyroscopicguidancesystem.Itwasreferredtothen,asitistoday,asa“fireandforget”missile.TheV-2flewatsupersonicspeedsacrosstheEnglishChanneltoLondonaswellParisandAntwerp.Approximately3,172rocketswerelaunched.7

WhiteSandsProvingGround(WSPG)hadalreadymadehistorybydetonatingthefirstAtomicbombonJuly16,1945,atTrinitySite.Afterthewar,manyV-2rocketsweresecretlymovedtothenewWhiteSandsProvingGround(renamedWhiteSandsMissileRangein1960).TheywerebroughtintoCarrizozo,NewMexico,byrailcarandthentruckedtothelaunchcenter.InMay1946thefirstofhundredsofGermanscientistsarrivedintheUnitedStatesunderOperationPaperclip,thesecretprojecttosmuggleoutofGermanymanyofthebrightestGermanstocontinueworkonAmerica’ssecretmissileprogram,aprogramthatputamanonthemooninJuly1969.By1948theV-2programwasinfullswing,withatotalof12launchesthatyear.InMarch1948,however,onlyoneV-2waslaunched,anditwasaccountedfor.

TheV-2stood46feettall,itswingspan(fin)was11.7feet,andthebodydiameterwas5.4feet.Themaximumspeedwas3,545mph,withamaximumceilingof55miles,andmoreimportantlyamaximumrangeof200miles.

TheU.S.militarydidnothaveanythingthatcouldexceedthe200-milelimit.Aztecisabout400milesfromlaunchpad33atthesouthernendofWSPGwheretheV-2waslaunched.Socorro,NewMexico,is163airmilesfromlaunchsite33,togiveanotherperspective.So,aV-2neverflewasfarasAztec,muchlesstoBlanding,Utah,asanotherstoryproposed.

Page 84: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

So,JimBowra’sstory,astoldbyhisfather,isaccurateinmostdetails.JustremoveflyingsaucerandinsertV-2,andyouhavethewholeepisodemuchasyoureadinthefirstchapterofthisbook.

TheRoleoftheSkepticinUFOResearchGovernment-sponsoredmagazinessuchasTheSkepticandTheSkepticalEnquirerhavebeenthe

stand-bypublicationsfordebunkers,andtheyarealmostalwaysfoundinuniversitylibraries.Suchhighprofileanti-UFOpersonalitiesasPhillipKlass,whodiedin2005,MichaelShermer,JoeNickell,JamesMcGaha,andthelateKarlPflockalloperatedfromthenullhypothesisandusedratiocinationdatalectiprofligate(or,moresimply,reasoningfromcherry-pickeddata)toprovetheirtheses.Anotherexampleofdebunkingonsteroidswas,ofcourse,theCondonCommittee,whichconvenedfrom1966to1968attheUniversityofColoradoandwhosechair,EdwardCondon,hadalreadydeterminedtherewas“nothingtotheflyingsaucerphenomenon”butwasforcedtotaketwoyearstoreachthatconclusion.8ItwaslaterdeterminedthatthemissionofthecommitteewastodebunkflyingsaucersinordertogivetheU.S.AirForceplausibledeniabilitywhenitshutdowntheofficialUFOinvestigativeProjectBlueBookthatwas,initself,apublicrelationsefforttoexplainawaythefloodofsightings.ThelastdayofBlueBookwasJanuary30,1970,thoughoperationsactuallyceasedinDecember1969.

Scottandfellowauthorswelcomehonestskepticism,becauseoftentheskeptichelpspolicetheresearchertokeepherorhimhonestinpresentationofdata.Skepticsfindhonestmistakesandsometimesencourageafreshexaminationofreportedincidents.

ASincereSkepticMonteShriverwasastudentatAztecHighSchoolin1948,andanothercontemporarygraduateof

AztecHighwasGarreyCarrutherswholaterbecameNewMexico’s27thgovernorandthenthe27thpresidentofNewMexicoStateUniversity(NMSU).CarruthersconfirmedtotheauthorsthathewasacontemporaryofMonte’s,heaswellhadneverheardaboutaflyingsaucercrashnearAztec.Hesaidinane-mailinterviewthatthefirsttimehehadeverheardaboutsuchaneventwasin2014whencontactedbyMonteShriver.9

ShrivergraduatedfromNMSUwithamechanicalengineeringdegreein1957.HeservedasanintelligenceofficerintheU.S.AirForcebeforemusteringout,goingtoworkfortheBellSystemin1962,andfinallyretiringinLasCruces.HesaysthefirsttimeheeverheardaboutaflyingsaucercrashatAztecwasuponreadinganoticeoftheAztecSymposium,whichwouldhavebeenintheearly2000s.

Tohiscredit,Shriverdidhishomework.HepurchasedandreadScully’sbook,Steinman’sbook,and,ofcourse,the2012editionofTheAztecIncident:RecoveryatHartCanyon.ThisledShrivertowritehismonograph,datedAugust9,2012,andtitled“It’sAboutTime:SomeoneFromAztec,NewMexicoWroteAbouttheAztec(HartCanyon)UFOThatIsAllegedtoHaveCrashedinHartCanyononMarch25,1948.Conclusion:ItDidn’tHappen!”

DebunkersweredelightedtoseeShriver’sefforts,particularlybecauseheagreedwithdebunkersthatthetestimonyofwitnessDougNolandandVirgilRiggs,thefriendofanotherwitness,shouldberejected;however,Shriverdoesnotfitintotheusualcategoryofdebunker.Thisreasoninghasbeenaddressedelsewhereintheoriginalbook.

ToShriver’scredit,hestudiedtheAztecIncidentliteratureasanygoodacademicwoulddo.HeenumeratesthestatementsintheRamseys/Thayer/Warrenbookthathestronglydisagreeswith,andheisadamantthatnobodyinAztectalkedaboutsuchaneventin1948orinthefewyearsthereafter,sosuchanotherworldlyeventcouldnothavehappened.HeactuallyrepresentsavocalminorityofAztecresidentswhoagreewithhimthattheyhadnotheardaboutthesaucerincidentandthereforeitcouldnothaveoccurred.ShriverusesaBoyScoutsJamboreearoundthetimeofthecrashonHartCanyonRoadasone

Page 85: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

reasonthecrashcouldnothavehappened.HeclaimedthattheJamboreeonHartCanyonRoadlastedallweekendand,therefore,nocrashretrievalcouldhavetakenplace,astheareawasswarmingwithcampingboyscouts.However,anarchivedcopyoftheAztecReviewfromthatweekshowedtheJamboreestartingatnoononFridayandendingatnoonSaturdayattheentranceofHartCanyon,notanywherenearthecrashsite,whichwasatleast6milesfartheroutonHartCanyonRoad.OneofthemostvaluablecontributionsbyShriverishisdescriptionoflifeinAztecduringthepost-WWIIyearsandhismemoriesoflocalpeople,includinghismentionofthe60threunionofAztecHighin2012.

BecauseheknowstheDunningfamily,whoseranchisrightnexttoHartCanyonmesa,ShrivertalkedwithJackDunning,whosaidthathisfamilywasnotheldincommunicadoandtheranchphonewasnottappedsincetherewasnophoneontheranchin1948.Shriver’sconversationwithDunningiscredible,andcertainlySteinmandidnotspeakwithranchownerHarold“Hy”Dunning,whorefusedtotalktoSteinmanatanytime,nordidheanswerSteinman’sletters.TheseniorDunningneverspokeoftheincidentsofarascanbedetermined.

Shriverquestionsthedescriptionofhowthehullofthesaucerwasbreached,pointingoutdisparitiesindescriptionswrittenbyScully,Steinman,andtheRamseys/Thayer/Warren.Thestoryofapunctureintheportholeonthedomeofthediscandhowapolewasinsertedtohitsomekindofhatchreleasebuttondoesvaryineachoftheaccounts,thoughthereisnofirsthanddescriptionofhowthishappenedandwhetheritwasdonebyoilfieldworkersorthemilitaryrecoveryteam.Thepuncturedporthole,however,isidenticallydescribedineveryaccountfromScullytoSteinmantoStringfield,andinthisbook.

ShriverisskepticalofSteinman’sstatementsthatAztecwasundersurveillancebythegovernmentoversightgroupknownasMJ-12,andheisskepticalofSteinman’sassertionthatthegovernmentsurveillancewasstillgoingon39yearslater(in1986,whenSteinmanpublishedhisbook).ShriveriscorrectthatthereislittleevidenceofanyorganizedgovernmentwatchersinAztec,thoughRamsey’sinterviewsincludetestimonyofwitnessesthatAirForcepersonneldebriefedthemandsworethemtosecrecy.Theideaoflong-termsurveillanceofrusticAztecisnoteasilysupported,andShriverisonsolidground;however,asthedeanofUFOinvestigatorsStantonFriedmanalwayssaysinhisspeeches,“absenceofevidenceisnotevidenceofabsence.”

WhenShriverturnshisskepticismtoScottRamsey’sresearch,thecaseismoreargumentative.ShriverandRamseybothhavedocumentationandsourceinterviewstobolstertheircases,fromwhetherstagecoachestraveledthedirtroadaroundtheArkansasLoopbetweenAztecandDurango,totheroutesanddesignationsofHighways440and550intheFourCornersarea.Researchersgenerallypointoutthatsourcedocumentscertainlyareassusceptibletomistakesastheworkofhistoriansconsultingthosedocuments.ShriverhasexperiencetravelingtheroadsoutofAztec,anditisaspiritedargumentbetweenRamseyandShriverastotheroutesandthesurfacingoftheroads—thoughitmatterslittlewhichauthoriscorrect,becausethedebateiswhetheraflyingdisclandedonHartCanyonmesa.Shriversaystheroadstherewerenevercordonedoff;Ramseyhasinterviewedthosewhohavepersonalmemoriesofbeingturnedbackfromridingonthatroadinthespringof1948.

ShriverpresentedhisargumentstoaSanJuanCountyHistoricalSocietymeetingin2013,andhedonatedcopiesofhispublicationtothemembers.

Thepointofthischapteristoclearlyillustratethedifferencebetweentheskepticandthedebunker.Thedebunkingposition,whetherheldbyDonaldMenzel,theRobertsonPanel,theCondonCommittee,KarlPflock,orTheSkepticalInquirer,isanaprioriapproachinwhichthesamedialectictoolsareusednomatterwhatincidentthedebunkerisseekingtodiscredit.Itbeginswith“Becausethisincidentcannothavehappened,itmustbeexplainedbyoneofthefollowing….”Ifinformationcannotbecalledintoquestion,itmustbeignored.

SkepticssuchasMonteShriver,ontheotherhand,cometotheargumentwithcleanhandsandserveto

Page 86: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

holdtheflyingsaucerinvestigatortoahighstandardofaccuracy.Shriverhasnoideologicalstance,andheoffershislifeexperiencefromAztecaswellasintelligentresearchintohistoricaldocumentsasleadinghimtorejecttheAztecIncidenthypothesis.

Intheend,research,criticism,andskepticismmayormaynotproveordisproveanevent,butwhenanincorrectaddress,time,ordateiswrittenonapoliceoccurrencereport,thatdoesnotmeanthecrimebeinginvestigateddidnotoccur.Healthyskepticismisimportanttoinvestigation,andMonteShriverisheldupasanexampleofthatimportance.

Ontheotherhand,debunkersseldomdoanythingbutmuddythewaterwithanagendaasoldaswhentheyfirstbegantoexplainawayflyingsaucersatthetimeoftheKennethArnoldsightinginJune1947.TodaythereisacomponentoftheAztecpopulationthatacceptstherealityoftheAztecIncident,andthereisanothersegmentoflong-termresidentsstillsayingitneverhappened.

CommunityreactiontoAztecisreminiscentofthemorerecentDecember9,1965,landingofanobjectinthewoodsnearKecksburg,Pennsylvania,wherethecommunityisstillsplitastowhethertherewasacrashedobjectrecovered.

AsforcontinuingAztecresearch,MonteShriverwroteinadedicationofthecopyofhismonograph,giventoFrankThayerin2013,“Mayweagreetodisagree.”

Thischapterisawarningtostudentsandresearchersinthefieldofflyingsaucerresearch.Claimsofresearchersmustbeverifiable,butthecriticismofskepticsmustalsobeheldtothesamestandard.Asforthedebunkers,includingmyolddepartedfriendKarlPflock,wecansayonlythatweremainassuspiciousoftheirtruemotivesinthisfieldasweareskepticaloftheirseldom-substantiatedclaims.

Page 87: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

8

TheSecretKeepers

“Thedifficultywithmanycareerofficialsinthegovernmentisthattheyregardthemselvesasthemenwhoreallymakepolicyandrunthegovernment.Theylookupontheelectedofficialsasjusttemporaryoccupants.EveryPresidenthasbeenfacedwiththisproblem….Thecivilservant,thegeneraloradmiral,theforeignserviceofficer,hasnoauthoritytomakepolicy.Theyactasservantsofthegovernment,andthereforetheymustremaininlinewiththegovernmentpolicythatisestablishedbythosewhohavebeenchosenbythepeopletosetthatpolicy.”

—PresidentHarryS.Truman,1947

InordertofullyunderstandtheAztecIncident,itisnecessarytoexaminewhatthemilitaryandscientificestablishmentwasdoinginNewMexicointhe1940sand1950s,activitiesthatcontinueevenasthisbookisbeingwritten.NewMexicowasthen,asitistoday,intenselyinvolvedwithmilitaryresearchanddevelopment.

DuringWorldWarII,theManhattanProjectwasthemostsecretprojectinAmerica.LocatedatLosAlamos,justnorthofSantaFe,theworkbythebraintrustatLosAlamosledtotheexplosionofthefirstatomicbombatTrinitySiteonthe3,200-square-mileWhiteSandsProvingGround(WSPG;laterWhiteSandsMissileRange).TheWhiteSandspost-warrocketprogramwasmovedacrossthecountryfromTopsailIslandoffthecoastofNorthCarolina,whereProjectBumblebeerocketscapturedfromtheGermanswerelaunchedovertheAtlanticOcean.

FishermennearTopsailIslandcomplainedthattheirfishinglaneswerebeingpushedfartherouttoseaasProjectBumblebee,runundertheguiseofaJohnHopkinsUniversityresearchproject,wasdevelopinglonger-rangemissileswithhigheraccuracy.TheU.S.governmentdecidedtomovetherangetotherestrictedareainNewMexico,extendingthroughthecenterofstatefromthesouthernendnearElPaso,Texas,andFt.Bliss,toanareanorthofSocorro,NewMexico.

Atthewar’send,themilitarywasconcernedaboutagentsoftheSovietUnionwhohadinfiltratedAmericansocietyandwhowantedtoknowtheextentofAmericandiscoveriesinatomicenergyandmissiletechnology.TheColdWarhadbegun.AtthenorthernendofWhiteSandsMissileRangewasasectionofdeserthiddenbetweentwomountainrangesthathadbeenpickedbytheAtomicEnergyCommissionforthetestofthefirstnuclearweaponJuly16,1945.

JustabouteverysmalltowninNewMexicohasamilitarystorytotell.Roswellwashometothe509thbombergroupthatdroppedtheatomicbombonHiroshima,endingthewarinthePacificandsecuringvictoryforAmerica.JustsouthofAlbuquerque,SandiaNationalLabswasworkingonpartsoftheManhattanProjectaswell.TheSovietUnionwasinanall-outarmsracewiththeUnitedStatesofAmericafordominanceinEuropeandtherestofthefreeworld.

Withoutfanfareorpublicity,LasCruces,NewMexico,becamehometomorethan200GermanscientistswhowereimportedfromGermanyafterthewarandwhohelpedtheUnitedStateswiththeV-2rocketprogram,andothertechnologiesincludingjetaircraftresearch.TheGermanshad,ofcourse,

Page 88: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

introducedthefirstoperationaljetfighter,theME-262,in1943.Itwasdescribedassluggishandverythirstyforfuel,butitwasnonethelessanoperationalfighterjetthatoutperformedAlliedfighters.

PrototypeaircraftweresoontobestreakingthroughtheskiesoverNewMexicoalongwithV-2rockets,theso-calledVergeltungs-2orVengeance2sthatwehadcapturedfromtheGermans.Carrizozowasthefinalstopbyrailforthelarge,capturedGermanrocketsthatwereoff-loadedandtruckeddowntoWhiteSandstobedissectedbymilitaryexpertsaswellcivilianengineersandtheGermanscientistswhocametoNewMexicounderthesecretprojectcodenameOperationPaperclip.TherailroadyardinCarrizozowasoutfittedwithahugeplatformtohandlethelargepayloadsoftheseV-2rockets.Theseplatformswerestillinexistencein2010whenFrankThayervisitedthem,butwereintheprocessofbeingremovedatthattime.

Inanothersecretproject,earlypowerfulradarwasbeinginstalledinthestatetoprotectmilitaryandresearchinstallationsfromthegrowingthreatoftheSovietUnion,onceourallyduringWWII.Atstakewasnothinglessthanworlddomination.OurmainconcernasacountrywashowmuchtechnologytheSovietshadcapturedwhentheyinvadedGermanycomparedwithwhatwebroughtbackaftertheGermansurrender.

BeginningwiththeManhattanProject,locatedattheoldBoy’sSchoolandsummercampinLosAlamos,justnorthofSantaFe,LosAlamosemployedapproximately10,000peopleatitspeakinthemiddleofWorldWarII,allofwhomwerefeverishlyworkingtoinventtheatomicbomb.TheareawassosecretthatevengettingtoLosAlamoswasadifficulttask.EveryonewhoworkedtherehadthesamepostofficeboxnumberinSantaFe,andeverychildborntoparentsworkingatLosAlamosNationalLaboratoryduringtheseyearshaslistedthesamepostofficeboxonherorhisbirthcertificate.Tothepublic,LosAlamosdidnotexist.

RoadsinNewMexicowerenotastheyaretoday.SomeoftheroadsleadingfromLosAlamostoWhiteSandsProvingGroundwereshownas“unimproved”onmaps,meaningtheywerehard-packedsand,mud,orgravel.East–WestInterstate40andNorth–SouthInterstate25werenotcompleteduntilthe1960s.

Intheearly1940s,theworld’sbestscientistsworkedontheManhattanProjectbuildingthefirstnuclearweapon.SandiaNationalLaboratories,andotherfacilities,wereworking24hoursadayinatirelessefforttowinthewar.

Afterthewar,NewMexicowasbusierthanever.OperationPaperclipandtheManhattanProjectwerebothTopSecretasthetwoprojectsweretiedtogether.OperationPaperclipbeganonJuly19,1945,asOperationOvercastbutwaschangedtoOperationPaperclipinMarch1946.TheGermanscientistsmodifyingtheV-2rocketswere,infact,buildingthefirsttrueballisticmissilethatcould,withafewrefinements,carryawarheadmuchgreaterthanthosecarriedbytheoriginalrocketsthatraineddownonLondonandAntwerp.

BecauseskepticshaveclaimedthatflyingsaucerswereactuallysecretGermandisc-shapedcraftcapturedbytheAmericansandbroughtbacktoNewMexicofortesting,itisimportanttounderstandthescopeofOperationPaperclip.TheUnitedStatesknewthatthenextwarormilitarystandoffwasgoingtobewiththeSovietUnion.Warningofthiscamefromeverydirection,fromGeneralGeorgePattontotheGermanscientistswhodefectedfromGermanypriortoWWIIorwerefoundastheAmericansclosedinontheGermanborders.ThepremiseofOperationPaperclipwasestablishedwhentheGermanscientist,ormilitaryofficer,wasinterviewedbyourintelligenceagency,theOSS(latercalledtheCIA),andBritishintelligenceagents;apaperclipwasattachedtoanindexcardcontainingtheinformationthepersonhadvolunteeredduringhisinterrogation.ApaperclipattachedtothefilecardmeantthattheGermanwastobesenttotheUnitedStates,wherehewouldworkfortheAmericans.ThosewithoutpaperclipsweresometimesturnedovertoBritishorU.S.intelligenceofficersforexecution,usuallyby

Page 89: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

meansofa9mmbullettothebackofthehead.TheexecutionersoftenchosethestandardGermansidearm,theWaltherP-38,toserveastheinstrumentofpoeticjustice.

GermanscientistsweresenttoLasCruces,enteringtheUnitedStatesthroughJuárez,Mexico,ontheborderwithElPaso,andmanyofthemlivedinasectionofLasCrucesadjoiningthetown’shistoricdistrict.Theyweregivenroom,board,andajobworkingwiththerocketprogramatWhiteSands,justoverthescenicOrganMountainseastoftown.Eventoday,LasCrucesservesasthebedroomcommunityformanyWhiteSandsMissileRangeemployees.

SomeoftheseGermanscientistswerehouseholdnamestome(Scott)asIgrewup:Dr.WernervonBraun(rocketresearch),ArthurRudolph(rocketresearch),andHubertusStrughold(medicineandmedical),whoseworkhelpedtheUnitedStateswiththespaceraceandlaterlandingamanonthemoon.Advancesinaerodynamics,syntheticfuels,andspacemedicineweretheyieldfromthiscommunityofGermanscientists,whoweredisciplinedandhardworking.TheywereblendedwiththebestscientiststheUnitedStatescouldbringtothetable,aswellasthebestcivilianengineersandscientistsfromprivateindustry.

TheseGermansweresworntosecrecyand,thoughtheywerenotU.S.citizensatthetime,theyworkedonhighlyclassifiedprojects.ThedesertterrainofNewMexicowasafarcryfromthemountainsofGermany,butitprovidedamuchbetterlifethanthatoftheSovietgulagsandwintersinSiberia.

TheGermanscientistswereputtoworkontheirownV-2rocketdesign,originallyanunguidedmissilethatwas“fireandforget.”TheV-2wasessentiallyaterrorweapondesignedtobreakthemoraleoftheBritishpopulationasV-2sdroppedsilentlyfromtheskyandexploded.TheUnitedStateswantedtorefinetheserocketswithadvancedguidancesystemsthatwouldeventuallygivethempointblankaccuracy,beessentialcomponentsinbothintercontinentalballisticnuclearmissiles,andadvanceourcapabilitiesintheearlyyearsofthespacerace,whichwoulddeterminewhethertheUnitedStatesortheSovietUnionwoulddominateouterspace.

By1945themilitarypresencewassubstantialinNewMexico,astatewithapopulationatthattimeoflessthan575,000people,thoughitwasthefifthlargeststatebyarea.Militarypoliceoutnumberedcivilianpolicebyaratioof10:1.Contrastedto258civilianofficers,toincludethestatepolice,countysheriffs,andlocalcitypolice,therewere2,576militarypolicekeepingpryingeyesawayfromAmerica’sbest-keptsecrets.1ThemilitarybasesinNewMexicointhistimeframeincludedRoswellArmyAirField(renamedWalkerAirForceBasein1948),KirtlandArmyAirField,AlamogordoArmyAirField(laterHollomanAirForceBase),WhiteSandsProvingGround,SandiaNationalLaboratory,andLosAlamosNationalLaboratory,justtonameafew.

RoswellArmyAirFieldwastherepositoryofourarsenalofnuclearweaponsandbombersthatcouldbedeliveredanywhereintheworld.KirtlandArmyAirFieldwasalargefighterbaseaswellashomeoftheEighthAirForce.Alamogordowasalargefighter-trainingbase.WhiteSandsProvingGroundwasworkingonrocketandmissiletechnology.SandiaNationalLaboratorywasrefiningthe“proximityfuse”anddoingresearchinthemilitaryapplicationofhighenergy.LosAlamosNationalLaboratorywaspumpingoutnuclearweaponstechnologyandstillbuildingnuclearwarheadsforouruse.AdvancedradarwasbeingbuiltfasterthanevertoprotecttheseimportantlocationsfromSovietattack,whetherthoseattackscamefromhostilemilitaryactionorthroughespionage.RestrictedairspaceinNewMexicowasandismorecommonthananywhereelseinthecountry.

Inotherwords,alotofTopSecret,Secret,Classified,andRestrictedworkwasgoingonatthetime.Whenacountrystartstodetonatenuclearweaponsinaremotepartofthedesert,thismustlookprettyspectacularfromspace.AtthistimeNewMexicobegantogetalotofattentionfromsomewhere,butI(Scott)don’tthinkitsfullimplicationwasknownatfirst.

Flyingsaucerreportsstartedpouringinfromalloverthestate—reportsofobjectsstreakingacrossthe

Page 90: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

skyfasterthananyaircraftweknewabout,eventhoughtheUnitedStateshadsomenewaircraftthatapproachedthespeedofsound,andourownmilitarywerefiringrocketshighintothestratosphere.

ThankstotheresearchofJ.AndrewKissner,concerninghisinvestigationintosecretactivitiesinNewMexicofromWWIIupuntiltheAztecIncidentin1948,wefoundthatstrangethingswerehappeningaroundNewMexico,especiallynearmilitarybasesandprovinggrounds.Kissner’sunpublished1994work,“PeculiarPhenomena,”revealssomeinterestingfactsthatrelatetotheAztecIncident.Kissner,whoservedintheNewMexicoLegislature(R–DoñaAna),subsequentlyworkedwithU.S.RepresentativeStevenSchiff(R–NM)duringSchiff’s1990sinvestigationintotheRoswellUFOcrash.

AtatimewhencapturedV-2rocketslaunchedfromWhiteSandsProvingGroundfromComplex33andspedtoaltitudesof40to80milesabovetheearth,onesuchV-2launchwentwrongonMay15,1947.WSPGcommanderLieutenantColonelHaroldTurnerwasatalosstoexplaintheaccident.KissnerdescribestheV-2rocketasachievinganaltitudeof40mileswhen,amazingly,anotherobjectappearednexttotheascendingmissile.TheV-2suddenlychangedcourse,trackingtothenortheasttowardthetownofAlamogordo.

AccordingtoKissner,theflyingdiscfollowedtheV-2untillaunchcommanddetonatedthemissilefive-and-a-halfminutesintotheflight.ThiswaslessthantwomonthsbeforethefamousRoswellflyingdiscrecovery.TurneractuallytalkedtothepressandreferredtothiserrantV-2aspeculiarphenomena,andhewasreplacedasbasecommanderonJuly15,1947,onlydaysaftertheRoswellflyingdiscincident.

KissnerwrotethatTurnerwasa“verybright,handpickedmanforthejobofrunningWhiteSandsProvingGround.HehadbeenselectedbytheJointChiefsofStafftoheadtheprovinggroundsbeforetheTrinitytest!”2Indeed,TurnerwaspartoftheManhattanProject,andhisonlyfaultwastalkingtothepressaboutoneofthose“flyingdiscs”thatruinedhistestonMay15,1947.ThenextV-2rocketlaunchwasMay29,1947,whenanotherV-2launchwentawry,crashingjustoutsideofJuárez,Mexico.

KissneralsoinvestigatedtheCarrizozocrashofaP-80jetfighterdirectlyintothetownofCarrizozo.AccordingtoKissner,onTuesdayJuly15,1947,aP-80ShootingStarjetfighterlandedonaremote,straightstretchofHighway380,25milessouthwestoftheCoronaflyingdisccrashsite,atthesmallcommunityofCarrizozonearthenortheasterncornerofWSPG.ThiswasatthesametimethattheU.S.ArmyandNavywerepackinguptheflyingdiscdebrisfromRoswellandloadingfouralienbodiesonArmyB-29sandC-54transports.

Kissnerwrote:“TheP-80waitedatCarrizozo.Itsmission,althoughsecrettothisday,wastoprovideaircoverfortherecoveryoperation.ThiswasnecessaryintheeventthatanotherflyingdiscappearedandattemptedtoimpedeelementsoftherecoveryT-Force.Perhapsadiscwouldattempttoretrievethebodiesofthecrashdisc’sdeadcrewmembers.”

ThatfighterwasnotbasedatAlamogordoAirFieldbutcameoutofMarchField,California.Aircraftbasedatadistancefromthesiteofapossibleengagementwasacommonsecurityprecaution.Theresultavoidedthepossibilityofpilotscomparingnotes,whichaidedcompartmentalizationintheretentionofsecrecy.

TheKissnertextdescribesindetailhowtheP-80waitedfortwoandahalfdaysinCarrizozo.ItsatnexttoHighway380andwasapparentlyfueledby,“aU.S.ArmytanktruckdriventoCarrizozofromFt.Bliss—notAlamogordoArmyAirFieldthatwascloserby65miles.”ThoughTheElPasoTimes,quotingU.S.Armysources,reportedthattheplanehadrefueledattheCarrizozoAirport,thetown’sairport,evenin1996,stilldidnotofferjetfuel.TheArmy’sstorywasthatthefighterranlowonfuelinarainstorm.OthermilitaryaircraftalsolandedonthehighwayoratCarrizozo’sdirtairstripinmid-July1947.Allofthisactivitywaslessthan25milesfromtheRoswellflyingdisccrashsitesoutheastofCorona.

Page 91: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

AsKissnerdescribes,ontheafternoonofJuly18,1947,CaptainFloydG.SouleofRiverside,California,guidedhisP-80ontothecenterofHighway380andpushedhisGeneralElectricJ-33enginetowarditsmaximumthrustandreleasedtheparkingbrake.Everythingwasfine.Heacceleratedto120milesperhourandpulledbackonthestick.Theplaneliftedofftheroadwaytoanaltitudeof100feetbutnomore.Itwassuddenlytoolate.Kissnerwrote,“Thefighterveeredviolentlytotheright,nosedown.Aneyewitnessreportedthattheairplanewasflyingveryfastandwithoutanyobservableorexplainablecausesimplyrolledover.”

ThejetfighterflewdirectlyintotheMonteVistagasstationonthesouthwestcornerofStateRoute54andHighway380.Theairplaneandthegasstationexplodedinafireballsimultaneously,killingCaptainSoule.ItalsokilledJoeHunterDrake,25,ofCarrizozo,andcriticallyinjuredGlennDavis,his6-year-oldnephewfromAncho,NewMexico,aswellasJoePhilips,28,ofCarrizozo.ThedeadandinjuredwereferriedtoFt.BlissaboardC-47transportaircraft.

Kissner’ssummaryleavesthereadertowonder:“Noonetothisdayhasassociatedthistragedywiththerecoveryoperationofaflyingdisc25milesnortheastofCarrizozoatthesametime.ToaP-80thatdistancecouldbecoveredin30seconds.”NoassociationwasmadetotheRoswelldisccrashbecausethestoryhadbeenquashed.TheP-80disasterwasonlyreportedinthreenewspapersinJuly1947.

ItisalsoouropinionthattheP-80wasnotstrandednearCarrizozobecauseithadrunoutoffuel;theplanehadbeenonHighway380forseveraldays,anditwasrefueledandservicedbymilitarypersonnel,waitingforitsnextmissiontoflyeitherasprotectionforthemilitaryastheywereremovingtheRoswelldebrisorwaitingforanotherflyingsaucerthatcouldbeshotdownorfilmedwithguncameras.

Ataboutthesametime,apart-timepoliceofficerforCuba,NewMexico,waswitnessingstrangeoccurrencesinthenighttimeskiesoverhistown.ManuelSandovalworkedfulltimefortheSouthernUnionGasCompanyandpatrolledthepipelinethatranfromthebacksideofLosAlamostoLybrook,NewMexico.Hissecurityjobduringthedaywastopatrolthegasline,mainlylookingtomakesureitwassafeandthatnoonewastappingthelineillegally,acommonoccurrenceatthetime.Afteralongandharddaydrivinghisnewblack1947Mormon-Harringtonfour-wheel-drivepickuptruckovertheroughterrain,hewoulddriveintotownandworkparttimeasapatrolofficerfortheCubaPolice.Forthatjob,hecarriedthetitleofdeputysheriff.

SandovalwastakingtheplaceofSamSambrano,whohadbeenpromotedtosheriff.Sandovalworeabadgebutneverauniform,andhesometimespatrolledinablacksedanthatwasthepropertyofthetownofCubaorinhisownMormon-Harringtonpickup.Hehadsomeprettybigbootstofill,asSamSambranowasverywelllikedandrespected.SamwasatoughcopwhoonceputthetownjailonMainStreetofCubatodeterlawbreakers;that“jail”wasnomorethanasteelcageonthestreet,opentotheweather.Anyonecaughtrustlingcattle,robbingahouse,orjustbeinganuisancecouldendupinthisoutdooranimalcagethatbuiltareputationforCubaanditspopulationlessthan1,000.Samwasanoldgunslingerwhowalkedsopigeon-toedthatlocalswonderedhowhewalkedatall.

Sandoval’seveningswereroutine,watchingforspeedersalonghighway44thatconnectedBernalillotoFarmington.Somenights,Sandovaltookabreak,meetinghighwaypatrolmanAndyAndrewsforcoffeeandpieatthehotelinCuba.AndrewswasfromtheFarmingtonarea,andhispatroltookhimonseveralroutes,buthenormallypatrolledU.S.Highway44fromtheBlancoandBloomfieldareasouthtowardCuba.CubawasalittleoutofAndrews’sterritory,butmeetingSandovalforcoffeeandpiehadbecomearoutinebothhadcomeaccustomedtointhatsparselypopulatedarea.Andrewsevenhadapermanentroomatthehotel,roomnumber1,incasehispatrolwasovertoolateortheweatheronthecontinentaldividewastoobadforthetripbacktoFarmington.

ManyalatenightwasspentasSandovalandAndrewsswappedstoriesoftheiradventures.By1947,thetopicoftrafficcontrolonHighway44hadtakenabackseattowhattheywereseeingintheNew

Page 92: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Mexicoskies.BothhadexperiencedunusualsightingsinthenightskyandhadsimplyshruggedthemoffassometypeofmilitarytestingeithertothenortheastnearLosAlamosorpossiblyfromthesoutheastnearKirtland.Sightingsoffast,bright,andlowlights,greenorbs,andfireballswerebecomingcommonplacefortheofficers.Althoughbothmenhadseenthem,neithertriedtoexplainthem.

Onenight,JohnnyHernandez,theCubahotelandcaféowner,sawsomethingstrangeintheeveningsky,andherecalledthathispoliceofficerfriendshadseensimilarthings.AsJohnnyleftRegina,NewMexico,withatruckloadoflogs,hemadetheturnontoHighway44forthedesolateridebacktoCuba.Hesawabrightgreenlightfastapproachinghistruck.Theobjectseemedtocomefromthewestandturnslightlytowardthesouth—thenitturnedsharplytothenorth,passingoverJohnny’struckatatremendousspeed.Theobject,asJohnnyrecounted,madenonoisewhatsoeverasitflewoverhistruckandheadedtowardTaylorMountain.3

JohnnytoldSuzanneandI(Scott)aboutthiseventinAugust2008whenwevisitedhimathishomeinCuba.JohnnytoldushecontactedKirtlandAirForceBase,wherehisfatherwasaUSAFColonel.Hisfathertoldhimthatotherswerereportingasimilarobjectandsomebodywouldcontacthim.

AdayorsoafterJohnnyHernandezsawthegreenlight,ManuelandAndywereseeingtheseobjectsagainduringtheirnightpatrolsfromCubatoFarmingtonasobjectsflashedthroughthenightskies,closetothecanyons,acceleratingtohighspeeds.Attimestheobjectsactedasthoughtheydidnotcarethattheywerebeingobserved.Withinthefireballsandgreenballsoflightnowandthen,observersbegantomakeoutshapesinthelights,andstructuredobjectscouldbeseenwhenthe“lights”flewslowerandclosertotheground.WhenAndrewsandSandovalmet,theirconversationswerethencenteredontheobjectsandlightstheywereseeingatnightandwhichsometimesappearedevenduringtheday.Andrewsdescribedstructures,suchaswhathedescribedasportholesandwhatlookedtobenavigationallights,orcontrolledlightssuchasspotlightsthatseemedtoscanthedesertfloor.

TheobjectsManuelwasseeingweremainlywestofLosAlamosuptoLybrook.Bothagreedthattheseobjectswere“structuredcraft,”astheycalledthem.Bothoftheseofficershadverywideareasofresponsibilitytocoverduringtheirshifts.

About60milesawayatLosAlamosNationalLaboratory,thelaboratorypoliceandsecuritywereseeinggreenballsoflightthatcameupthemountainatahighrateofspeed,flewlowovertheTopSecretfacility,andthenshotoffintothenight.Theseobjectsneverseemedtobeconsistentinthedirectionoftheirappearanceordisappearance.Thesecurityteamswereatalosstoexplainwhattheywereseeing.Manymeetingswereconvenedtotrytodeterminewhatthesesightingswere.MeetingsaboutthegreenfireballswereheldattheNationalLaboratory,onceahomefortheManhattanProjectandthenbeingbuzzedbyunknownobjectsbreachingtheirinviolateairspace.

EnternowDr.LincolnLaPaz,oftheastronomydepartmentattheUniversityofNewMexico(UNM).LaPazwasfamiliarwiththegreenfireballsthatweretraversingtheskiesoverLosAlamosandovertheatomicfacilitiesatOakRidgeNationalLaboratorynorthofKnoxville,Tennessee.Bothoftheselaboratorieswerereportingthesamestrangeeventsonaregularbasis,andLaPazwasbroughtintodiscoverwhattheywere.LaPaz,directoroftheInstituteofMeteoriticsattheUniversityofNewMexico,wasundercontractwiththeAirForcetoinvestigatethegreenfireballs.Werethesephenomenameteorologicalinnature?Weretheyrocketsoraircraftbeingtest-flownfromanothercountryoveroursecretfacilities,orweretheytheflyingsaucersthateveryoneincludingthemilitarywastalkingabout?

LaPazwassenttoCuba,NewMexico,bytheAirForcetointerviewJohnnyHernandezabouthissighting.HearrivedinCubawithtwoAirForceofficersandheldasmall-townmeetingtohearwhatpeoplewerereporting.LaPazthenleftwiththeAirForceofficersinavehicleanddroveoffintothedesert.Whentheyreturnedafewdayslater,theyconvenedanothertownmeetinganddisplayedrockstheyhadfoundwestofCuba.LaPazexplainedthattherocksheheldinhishandwereproofthattheresidents

Page 93: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

ofCubahadseenonlymeteors.AccordingtoJohnny,nobodywasimpressedwithorpersuadedbytheexplanation.

JohnnyHernandeztoldusthatwhenLaPazinterviewedManuelSandovalandAndyAndrews,thetwopolicemenwerenoteasilyimpressedorconvinced.Johnnyremembersthatoneofthetwoofficers“almostcameoverthetableatLaPaz”atonepoint.AndythenremindedLaPazthathehadseen“astructuredcraft,movingslowly,changingdirections,andithadlights.”Manuelremarkedthattheobjectshehadseenwereverysimilar,andthattheychangeddirections,hadportholes,andhadlights,andbothmenclaimedthecraft“navigatedthecanyons.”ThisstrangeencounterwiththeUNMacademiconlyincreasedtheirinterest,andtheywerecertainlynotdoneseeingstrangeobjectsintheskyoverNewMexico.

October30,1947,wasaspectacularnightforskywatchersinNewMexico,asahugemeteorwasseenovertheFourCornersarea.Mr.andMrs.C.Weaverlivedinadesertareafarmhouseonthereservationnearwherethemeteorlanded.Havingnoradioornewspaper,thecoupleplacednogreatimportancetothesightinguntiltheirstoryspreadtopeoplebackintown.ItwasnotuntilAugust1948thatpeopleshowedupintheWeavers’frontyardtoquestionthemaboutthemeteor:itsdirection,size,brightness,andsoforth.AsMrs.WeaverwouldlaterdescribetoaTexasnewspaper,“Internationallyknownexpertswhowerepresentthatdayatourhome,approachedmeandtoldmethatitwasnometeorite,butaguidedobject,probablyfromthemilitaryestablishmentofaforeignpower.Thereseemedconsiderableagreementamongthescientistsandthemilitarymenonthispoint.”4Whydidittakethemilitaryorsomefactionofthegovernmenttowaituntilthefollowingyeartoshowupandinterviewthefamilyaboutanobjectthatmighthavebeensentfromahostilegovernmenthereonearth?

H.H.Nininger,whoownedameteoritemuseumnearWinslow,Arizona,didsomeresearchatthattime,tryingtolocatethemeteoriteorpartsofitforhismuseum.HetoldSuzanneandme(Scott)thatwitnessesreportedtheobjectaslandingorcrashingsouthtosouthwestoftheFourCornersontheArizonasideoftheborder.5AlthoughNiningerneverdidfindapiece,hesaidthemeteorsightingwasspectacularaswellasdocumented.Niningerhadlimitedresourcesforsearchingthearea,andhereliedonfellowmeteoritehuntersandafewlocalswhojoinedintosearchonhisbehalf.IfNininger’stheoryandcalculationsarecorrect,theobjectfell60mileswestofAztec.BecausetheobjectwasnotbrightanddidnottraveloverthetownofAztec,wecanruleoutthepossibilitythattheAzteccrashstorywasamistakenmeteoritethatlandedonamesainHartCanyon.

ByFebruary18,1948,anotherspectacularmeteorwasabouttopassovertheFourCornersarea.ThismeteoritewasknownastheNortonMeteor,asitlandedinNorton,Kansas.ThemeteorwassospectacularitmadethenewswireacrosstheUnitedStatesthatnight.ItpassedrightoverFarmingtonandAztecandlitupthesky,accordingtowitnesses.Themeteoritecreatedacrater39inchesby18inches,andwasrecoveredbyDr.LaPaz.ItwasseenbymanypeopleintheFourCornersareaandwasthetalkofmanypeople.

MartinPacheco,wholivedinthetownofBlanco,justsouthofAztec,recalledthatthemeteorhad“swooped”overthetownofAztecinFebruary1948.6Pachecoclaimedthattheeventwassoscarytomanylocalresidents,ranchers,andfarmersintheBlanco,Bloomfield,andAztecareathatFatherAlbertBaegerheldreligiousservicesforhisparishionerstocalmfearamongthepeople.Somelocalsapparentlyfeareditwastheendoftheworld.Pachecorememberedthatthemeteordidnotfallstraightdown,but“tookacurvedjumpandthendisappeared.”

SoitappearsthatLaPazwasverybusyinNewMexicoduringthistime,aswellastravelingtootherpartsofthecountrywherehewasinvestigatingbrightmeteors,fireballs,orgreenorbs.LaPazhadaremarkableteamwithhimoravailabletohimatalltimes.HisappearanceintheFarmingtonareaonanothermeteorsightinghadhim“withbootsontheground”withinhours.Hisresponsewasremarkably

Page 94: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

efficient,andI(Scott)speculatethat,ifLaPazwasinAlbuquerquenearUNMwhereheworked,hegottotheFarmingtonareaveryquickly,consideringitwasathree-tofour-hourdrivetotheFourCorners.Ina1948newspaperisastatementthatLaPazhadradioequippedcarsathisdisposalfortrackingthesemeteorites.

ByFebruary1949,thegreenfireballsstillspedoverNewMexicoandtheSouthwest,apparentlyupsettingboththemilitaryandthenationallaboratorieswheresecretprojectswereunderway.

WehavecopiesofasecretreportfromameetingonFebruary16,1949,togivethereaderasnapshotofwhatwasgoingonbehindcloseddoors.ThismeetingtookplaceatLosAlamosNationalLaboratory.ItgivesusanunderstandingofhowseriouslyauthoritiesregardedflyingsaucerreportsandhowLaPazexplainedthefireballphenomenain1948.

NewMexicoandthemilitarywereverybusyin1947/1948tryingtofigureoutwhatthegreenfireballswere,aswellassortingoutreportsoflargemetaldiscsbeingseenintheskies.Flyingsaucerreportswerecominginfromeverywhere.Commercialpilots,militarypilots,lawenforcementpeopleontheground,andcarefullytrainedobserversworkingatclassifiedsiteswerereportingthemaswell.Asstatedearlierinthisbook,alargeportionoftheskiesoverNewMexicowereundergovernmentcontrol,eitherrestrictingortightlycontrollingmostcommercialorprivateairtraffic.

DonaldKeyhoe’s1950book,TheFlyingSaucersAreReal,includesadiscussionoftheAirForcereportontheir1949ProjectSaucer.Keyhoecommentsthat,incaseaftercase,theuseoftheplanetVenus,weatherballoons,andmeteors,toexplainthefloodofflyingsaucersightings,repeatedlythroughtheuseofthephrase“canbeexplainedaway,”revealsthetruemotivefortheirinvestigations.7

ThesedismissalsincludedthecaseofAirForceF-51fighterpilotThomasMantell,whoseplanecrashedinKentuckyonJanuary7,1948,ashezoomedtowardasilverydiscof“tremendous”sizebeforehisplanewastornapart,killinghim.8TheAirForceclosedthecase,sayingthattheexperiencedcombatpilotwas“chasingtheplanetVenus”inthemiddleoftheday.9

Dr.LaPazwaschargedwiththesamemission:toexplainawaythegreenfireballsandmysteriouslightsoversecretNewMexicoinstallations.Thesecretsweresuccessfullykept.

Page 95: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

9

AztecResearchersWilliamSteinmanandChrisEvans:TheirBooksandTheirLives

“Thesescientistswerecompletelystrickenwithaweastheyexaminedtheexteriorofthisamazingaeroformofunknownorigin.”

—WilliamSteinman,19861

ItwasahotMonday,thelastdayoftheFourthofJulyweekendin1982,whenamansteppeddownfromaplaneattheDurango,Colorado,airfieldandrentedacar.HisdestinationwasAztec,NewMexico,andhewasbeginninghispersonalinvestigationintoaneventthatwouldhavechangedhistoryhadthepublichadbeentoldthetruthaboutflyingsaucersin1948.

JustastheRoswellIncidentof1947wasburiedunderdisinformationfor30years,so,too,wastherevelationofthe1948AztecIncidentfirstwrittenaboutbyFrankScullyin1950andsuppressedbyasimilarcampaignoftheU.S.governmentandselectedhandmaidensintheprivatesector.ThelidtoRoswellwasfirstpriedopenbyStantonFriedman,alongwithauthorsWilliamMooreandDonBerliner,butthepioneerresearcherwhorediscoveredthetruthofAztec,30yearsafterScully,wasWilliamSteinman.

Ofcourse,incontrovertibleproof,withthetestimonyoflivingwitnesseswhoactuallysawandtouchedthesaucerin1948,wasfinallypublishedinthe2012bookTheAztecIncident:RecoveryatHartCanyon.ThetruthoftheAztecIncidentrestsonthefirmfoundationofthreeresearchers:FrankScully,1950;WilliamSteinman,1986;andScottRamseyetal.,2012—andnowwithScottandSuzanneRamseyandFrankThayerinthisbook.

FrankScullyandhis1950book,BehindtheFlyingSaucers,hasalreadybeendiscussedinthisbook.The2012bookbyScottandSuzanneRamsey,FrankThayer,andFrankWarrencompletedtheproofofAztecbeyondareasonabledoubt.YetaneedremainstopaytributetotheimportanceofWilliamSteinmanandhis1986book,UFOCrashatAztec:AWell-KeptSecret.

Asdescribedelsewhereinthisbook,whenScottfirstheardaboutthecrashsiteatAztecin1986,hehadneverheardofFrankScullyorBillSteinman.HewasvisitingtheFourCornersareaofNewMexicoin1986aspartofhisnationwidebusiness,sellingelectricalwireforindustrialuses.Scottbecamecuriouswhenheheardlocalresidentsmention“theoldcrashsite.”ItwasonlysometimeafterhiscuriositywasarousedthatScottdiscoveredbothScully’sandSteinman’sbooks.

CoauthorFrankThayerisanativeNewMexicanwhoalsohasinterestinNewMexico’shistoryofflyingsaucerevents.HereadextensivelyabouttheRoswellIncidentintheyearsafter1980andhadheardstoriesaboutanAztecflyingsaucer,buthediscounteditaslittlemorethanfolklore,perhapsrelatedtotheRoswellstory.ThayerdescribeshimselfasathoroughRoswellscholar;however,hedidnotknowaboutScully’soriginalbookthatdatedfromthedawningoftheflyingsaucerera,andhedidnotdiscoverSteinman’sbookuntil2006.Thatbookitselfwasindeedawell-keptsecret.

Therearepeculiarsimilaritiestothenow-famousRoswellIncidentandtheAztecIncident.Bothhaveturnedouttoberealrecoveriesofextraterrestrialvehicles,andthefactssupportingbothweresystematicallyandrelentlesslysuppressedorobfuscatedbytheU.S.military.Roswellwasaone-day

Page 96: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

storyinJuly1947andcompletelyerasedfrompublicknowledgeuntil1978,whentopresearcherStantonFriedmanbychancecrossedpathswithformerU.S.ArmyAirForceIntelligenceOfficerJesseMarcelinHouma,Louisiana,thusleadingtothe1980bookbyCharlesBerlitzandWilliamMoore,TheRoswellIncident.

Today,onlythosewhohavenotreadthemountainofpublishedresearchonRoswell,andinterviewswithcloseto600witnesses,canclaimthatitwasanythingotherthantherecoveryofanextraterrestrialflyingsaucerandoccupants.

AztecwasbettercontainedandsilencedbythemilitarythanRoswell,buttheevidencefortheeventhasnowbeenpublishedandprovedbeyondareasonabledoubt.ItallbeganwithFrankScully’sbest-sellingbookin1950,andthereaderhasalreadyreadhowthebiggeststoryof1950wascalledintoquestionbyrelentlesscharacterassassinationanddisinformationinthefollowingtwoyears.WhereRoswellwassuppressedbynakeddeaththreats,bribery,andenforcedoathsofsilence,Aztecrequireddifferenttactics,thoughthemilitarywasjustasruthlesslaterintryingtodestroyScully’sreputationandthatofeverypersoneventangentiallyconnectedwiththestory.BribesinreturnforsilencewerealsolikelyintheAzteccase,asScotthassuggestedinhisresearch.HerevealsinthisbookthecircumstantialevidenceforthestatisticallyimprobableaffluenceofeverypersonlistedashavingbeenonthemesathatMarch1948morning.ScottalsodiscoveredthatmanyofthosewhosawtheAztecsaucerweresworntosilence,evenforbiddentodiscussitwiththeirfamiliesuntiltheirtongueswereloosenedbytimeandextremeage.

Afterthe1953fraudtrialofSilasNewtonandLeoGeBauerinDenver,Colorado,Aztecwasloudlyandbroadlybrandedasahoax—alabelbaseduponfallaciouslogicthatlastedmorethan30years.AdedicatedandcuriousmanflewtoDurango,Colorado,anddrovesouthtothetownofAztecinhisfirstvisittoNewMexicotofindoutforhimselfwhatreallyhappenedthere.

William“Bill”SteinmanwasbornonJuly11,1943,inLosAngeles,andraisedinDowney,California.HeattendedCerritosStateCollegeinNorwalkandspenttwoyearsintheU.S.Army,stationedattheDefenseIntelligenceLanguageInstitute.Afterhismilitarydutyended,hefoundhimselfworkingasaqualityassuranceandanalysistechnicianintheaerospaceindustryformorethan14years.Hisprofessionalconcentrationwasinhighstrength,lightweightmetallurgicaldesigns.HewrotethathefirstbecameinterestedinUFOswhenhefoundacopyofFrankScully’sbookBehindtheFlyingSaucersinausedbookstorein1981.Thebooksoimpressedhimthathespentnextfiveyearsdevotinghissparetimetotheintensiveresearchleadingtohismemorablebook.Thatbookwouldhaveseriousconsequencesforhim.

In1981,SteinmansetouttoinvestigatetheFrankScullystory.Whathediscoveredchangedhisworldview,andtheproofhefoundwaspersuasive.His625-pagehardboundbookwaspublishedatconsiderableexpensein1986byhiscoauthorWendelleC.Stevensandwasdestinedtobealmostunknownforanothertwodecades.Steinman’sbookdescribeshisodysseyingreatdetail,andhisdedicationtothequestisanexampletoanyonewhoislookingforthetruth.

Inhisownaccount,SteinmansaysthatheflewintotheDurangoairportonJuly5,1982,andwentintoAztecthelongway,viaNewMexico173insteadoftheU.S.550routethatgoesalmoststraightsouth.Hesaidhewasnotawareatthetimethatthemilitary/scientificteamin1948wouldhavelandedattheDurangoairporttoorganizeaconvoysouthfromCampHaletoAztecfortherecovery.

Hewrotethathisfirststopintownwasattheofficeofthenewspaper,wherehesaidhesearchedthearchivesfruitlesslyandplacedanadinthepaperseekinginformationabouttheflyingsaucerincident.Theadgeneratedzeroresponses.Onthesameday,bychance,hestoppedatayardsalewhiletouringthetown;thatyardbelongedtoHarveyandVivianMelton,whoknewwherethecrashsitewas,havingtakenanotherfellowouttherein1975.

Page 97: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Thoughcertainlynotthefirstpersontovisitthecrashsite,Steinmanwasprobablyoneofthefirstseriousresearcherstowalkeveryinchatthetopofthatmesa.OtherswhohadpinpointedthesiteincludedaFloridacollegeinstructornamedRobertSpencerCarr,andothers,includingRichardMillerandRaymondMeier.Asdiscussedelsewhereinthisbook,anothervisitortothecrashsitewasDr.RoyCraig,whoexpressedskepticisminpublicabouttheAzteccrash,perhapsbecauseofhismembershiponthenotoriousCondonCommittee,thepurposeofwhichwasspecificallydesignedtodebunkallUFOsightings.PriortoCraig’sdeath,hesaidinaninterviewwithScottRamseythathewishedtheCondoncommitteehadlookedinto“realcaseslikeAztec,”andrevealingthatCraighadvisitedthecrashsite“severaldozentimes”(authors’emphasis).2

InthetwohoursSteinmanspentonHartCanyonMesainJuly1982,hefoundanumberofunusualartifactsseeminglyrelatedtoaconstructionprojectandotherburieditemsthatwerepossiblyconnectedtoamilitarypresenceonthemesaatsometime.Thoughnotnecessarilyexclusivetoacraftlandingonthemesa,Steinmanfoundcharredrocks,scrapesonthebedrock,andsomeoldflattenedtreesandscrub.

Itisnotapparentinthe21stcentury,butwhenSteinmanwalkedtothetopofHartCanyonMesa,itwasfencedoff,with“NoTrespassing”signsaffixedtothebarbedwire.Todaythetopofthemesaisvisitedregularlybyhikers,bicyclists,andcertainlyoccasionaltourists,andtheoldfencehasdeterioratedandismostlynon-existent.Thoughnotdescribedasprivatepropertytoday,thelocationisofficiallycontrolledbytheBureauofLandManagement.

ScotthaspraisedSteinman,sayingthathedidwhatsofewbeforehimhaddone:traveltoAztecandbeginasearchforthestoryontheground.Scottwoulddothesamethingbeginningin1987,notevenknowingofSteinman’sworkwhenhebegantoseriouslyinterviewresidentsandtovisitthecrashsitemoretimesthanhecancount.

Becausehewasstartingfromscratch,withonlytheFrankScullystoryasafoundation,SteinmanrovedtheAztecarea,reachingtheconclusionthatlocalresidentsdidnotseethesauceronthemesaandthatthemilitaryhadarrivedmuchmorequicklythanitactuallydid.ThewitnessSteinmanfoundwasoneofthefirstpeopleheencounteredatrandom:ValentinArchuleta,introducedinChapter1ofthisbookandidentifiedonlybyinitialsinSteinman’sbook.Whatawitnesshewas.AthisranchclosetoBlanco,NewMexico,ArchuletatoldSteinmanthathesawthesaucerintheearlymorningpasscloseoverhishouse,wobblinginobviousdifficulty,andthathesawitstrikeacliffabovetheNavajoRiver,“shootingsparksandrocks,”beforemakingaturnandproceedingstraightnorth.ThatdirectionwasinlinewithHartCanyon.3

ArchuletaalsotoldSteinmanthathehadplacedalong-distancecalltothe“military[KirtlandAFB]inAlbuquerque,”andScottconfirmedthatArchuletakeptthephonebillforthatcallintheyearssince1948.Thisisdoublyremarkable,aslongdistancecallswereexpensivein1948,andprivatetelephoneswerealsoveryuncommoninruralNewMexicoatthattime.

Steinman’sfortunatecontactwithArchuletawasenhancedinaninterviewlaterthatsamedaywiththeman’sdaughterwhoexpandedonlocalstoriesandrumorsaboutthesaucerincident.Sheconfirmedtohimthestoryabout“12–14bodies”foundinthecraft.Shealsopointedout,accordingtoSteinman,howHartCanyonMesacouldbeseeninthedistancefromtheArchuletaranch.Thisdoesnotappeartobeliterallypossible,butperhapswasfigurative.Asafootnote,Archuletasaidhewasneverapproachedbyanybodyseekinghissilenceordebriefingthesighting.

AttheendofhisvisittoAztec,SteinmancappeditbyfollowingdirectionstotheranchofscientistRoyCraig,whereCraigwasextensivelyinterviewed.CraigwasalsointerviewedbyScottathissouthColoradoproperty,butSteinmanfoundhimfirst.ReadersmayrecognizeCraigasamemberoftheUSAF–sponsoredCondonCommittee,thejobofwhichwastodebunkallflyingsaucerclaims.CraigtoldSteinmanthatthecommittee’sjobwasto“gettheAirForce‘offthehook’.”

Page 98: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Yet,SteinmandiscoveredCraigtobeveryinterestedinthefieldofstudyand,thoughhetoldSteinmanthathedoubtedtheAzteccase,hehadvisitedthecrashsite.RamseylaterfoundthatCraigmademanyvisitstoHartCanyonMesa.SteinmanfoundCraigtobeveryopentotheideaofflyingsaucersandcalledtheAirForcewhitewashintoquestion.

UsingBehindtheFlyingSaucersashisguide,SteinmanalsofoundDenverradioadvertisingexecutiveGeorgeKoehler,whoconfirmedtohimtheflyingsaucerstoryandwhotoldhiminnouncertaintermsthathedidnotwanttogetre-involvedwithflyingsaucersinanysenseafterhewasgrilledbyAFOSI(theAirForceOfficeofSpecialInvestigations)in1950.(SeeChapter12.)OfcourseKoehlerhelpedtoengineerthefamous1950UniversityofDenverlectureonflyingsaucersbySilasNewtonthatformedthefoundationforScully’sbest-seller.ReadersarefortunatetohaveaccesstotheentiretranscriptoftheKoehlerinterrogation.(SeeChapter12.)Koehleralsotape-recordedmostofNewton’slecture,andthattapehassurvived.

OneofSteinman’smostimportantcontributionswaslocatingU.S.scientistWilliamSarbachertoaffirmthenow-famousrevelationsmadebyCanadianscientistWilbertSmith.Smith,who,asseniorradioengineerfortheCanadianDepartmentofTransportinOttawa,onNovember21,1950,senta“Confidential”internalmemorandumtohissupervisor,C.P.Edwards,entitled“Geo-Magnetics”;itwasneverintendedtobecomepublicinformation.ThedocumentwasuncoveredbyformerRCAFmemberandCanadianflyingsaucerresearcherArthurBray.Steinmanrecordsthatthedocumentwasoriginally“TopSecret”butwasdowngradedto“Confidential”withthestipulation:“Itshouldneverbereleasedtothepublic.”Pointsmadeinthedocumentwerespecific:

»Thematter(flyingsaucers,ed.)isthemosthighlyclassifiedsubjectintheUnitedStatesGovernment,ratinghighereventhantheH-bomb.

»Flyingsaucersexist.»TheirmodusoperandiisunknownbutconcentratedeffortisbeingmadebyasmallgroupheadedbyDoctorVannevarBush.

»TheentirematterisconsideredbytheUnitedStatesauthoritiestobeoftremendoussignificance.

SteinmanreproducedtheSmithmemoranduminChapterVIIIofhisnow-scarcebook,andSmithintroducesthepreviouspointswiththeremarks:“WhileinWashingtonattendingtheMARBConference,twobookswerereleased,onetitled‘BehindtheFlyingSaucers’byFrankScully,andtheother‘TheFlyingSaucersareReal’byDonaldKeyhoe….”4ThememogoesontolinkthemagneticmethodofsaucerpropulsiondescribedbyScullywiththeproposalforcontinuinggeomagneticresearchinCanadaandtheUnitedStates.

Asaresearcher,SteinmansoughttovalidateSmith’swork,anddiscoveredhisconnectionwithDr.RobertI.Sarbacher,thedeanoftheGraduateSchoolatGeorgiaTechandaconsultanttotheU.S.government’sResearchandDevelopmentBoard.ArthurBraysentSteinmanatranscriptofaninterviewbetweenSmithandSarbacher.ThecommentbearingonAztecisthefollowing:

WilbertSmith: IhavereadScully’sbookonthesaucersandIwouldliketoknowhowmuchofitistrue.

RobertSarbacher: Thefactsreportedinthebookaresubstantiallycorrect.

SteinmanmadeithisworktoverifythecommentandexpanduponSarbacher’sknowledge.BeginninginMay1983,SteinmansearchedforSarbacher,thenwroteandphonedhimbeforefinallygettingareply,

Page 99: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

datedNovember29,1983.Sarbacher’sletter,undertheletterheadoftheWashingtonInstituteofTechnology,wasalandmarkdocumentinverifyingcrashedsaucerstories.QuotingfromSarbacher’sletter:“Istilldonotknowwhythehighorderofclassificationhasbeengivenandwhythedenialoftheexistenceofthesedevices.”5

Sarbacher,whodiedJuly26,1986,isnowwell-knowntothosewhohaveresearchedthehistoryofflyingsaucersinthemodernera,butitwasSteinmanwhofirstfoundhimand,throughpersistenceworthyofthebestjournalistictradition,encouragedthescientisttoconfirmthefactthatboththeCanadianandtheAmericangovernmentshadknowledgeofthefactofflyingsaucerrecoveriesandhaddoneresearchintotheirpropulsionmethods,nevertoberevealedtothepublic.

Inatimebeforetheinternetandelectronicdocuments,thephotocopymachinewasthegreatestenemyofconfidentiality,andwhenSteinmansentacopyofhisSarbacherdocumentinstrictconfidencetooneUFOresearcher,copiesweresuddenlyeverywhereintheresearchfieldwithinamonth.Still,itwasSteinmanwhofirstlocatedSarbacher,thoughthescientistdiedinthesameyearasSteinman’sbookwaspublished.

SteinmanwrotethathewasecstaticaboutthereceiptofSarbacher’sletter,andheputhisenthusiasmintoboldface:“…theScullystoryistrue!TheUnitedStatesGovernmentdoesindeedhavecrash-recoveredflyingsaucersandthebodiesoftheiroccupants!”6

Sarbacher’slettertoSteinmanwasdatedNovember29,1983,and,thoughithasbeenwidelydistributedsince,asummaryisusefulinthischapter.Asaconsultant,Sarbacher’sspecificknowledgewaslimited,buthisanswerstoSteinman’squeriesservedtoconfirmwhatSteinmanhaddiscovered.

First,Sarbachersaidofrecoveredflyingsaucersthathehadnoassociationwithanyofthepeopleinvolvedintherecoveryandhadnoknowledgeofthedatesofsuch.HenamedscientistsJohnvonNeuman,VannevarBush,andevenRobertOppenheimerasprobablybeinginvolved.HealsosaidhereceivedsomeofficialreportswhenhewasinhisofficeinthePentagonbutthatthereportscouldnotberemovedfromtheoffice.ThisistantamounttosayingthathehadatleastaSecretclearance,whichwouldgovernhowmuchhecouldreveal,even33yearslater.

Hisnextresponseshouldbequotedfromhisletter:

AbouttheonlythingIrememberatthistimeisthatcertainmaterialsreportedtohavecomefromflyingsaucercrasheswereextremelylightandverytough.Iamsureourlaboratoriesanalyzedthemverycarefully.

Therewerereportsthatinstrumentsorpeopleoperatingthesemachineswerealsoofverylightweight,sufficienttowithstandthetremendousdecelerationandaccelerationassociatedwiththeirmachinery.IrememberintalkingwithsomeofthepeopleattheofficethatIgottheimpressionthese“aliens”wereconstructedlikecertaininsectswehaveobservedoneearth,whereinbecauseofthelowmasstheinertialforcesinvolvedinoperationoftheseinstrumentswouldbequitelow.7

Sarbacher’sconclusionisevocativeandbearsrepeating:“Istilldonotknowwhythehighorderofclassificationhasbeengivenandwhythedenialoftheexistenceofthesedevices.”8

ToshowhowsuccessfulSteinmanwasinverifyingFrankScully’sbook,hereisSteinman’sconclusionaboutthesimilaritybetweenthecrashsitelocationaswritteninScully’s1950story—ScullynevervisitedthetownofAztec—andSteinman’sownfindingsofthecrashsitelocationinhis1986book:

Page 100: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

ThoughFrankScullydiedin1964,SteinmanwasabletocontactScully’swidow,AliceScully,andtostrikeupafriendshipwithher.AccordingtoSteinman,sheconfirmedtheAztecstoryasbroughttoherhusbandbySilasNewtonandscientistswhowerepartofthegroupofmennamed“Dr.Gee.”Intriguingly,shesaidshehadseenasheetofblackandwhitecontactprintsshowingthedisconthegroundandevenoneshowingseveralsmallbodieslyingonthegroundbesidethesaucer.Alicealwayssaidtherewerephotostakenonthemesa,buttheyhaveyettobediscoveredbyresearchers.Itshouldbestressedthatintheyearssince1948,noneoftheoriginalsources,includingScully,Newton,andGeBauer,normembersoftheScullyfamily,everbackedofffromtheveracityofAztec,nomatterwhatdebunkershavetriedtoclaim.

ThischapterwouldnotbecompletewithoutmentioningSteinman’scoauthorandpublisher,WendelleStevens,aUFOresearcherwhowrotemorethan50UFObooksbeforehediedinTucson,Arizona,onSeptember8,2010.ThoughStevensgaveSteinmantopbillingforthebook,Stevenscontributedasubstantialamountofmaterial.

StevenswasbornonJanuary18,1923,andservedintheArmyAirForceduringWWII,continuinghismilitarycareerwiththeAirForceuntilhisretirementasalieutenantcolonelinOctober1963.HeisbetterknownasaresearcherwhoworkedwiththeJimandCoralLorenzenAerialPhenomenaResearchOrganizationandreportedonanumberofUFOcontactandsaucercrashincidentsthathavenotyetbeenverifiedinmostcases,thoughthestoriesareprovocative.

SomeoftheaccountsStevensincludedtookplaceatWhiteSandsMissileRange.AlongwithSteinman,hediscussesthereportsofrecoveredaliensrecordedbyLeonardStringfield,whowasdevotedtopublicizinginformationaboutalienbodiesrecoveredbytheU.S.governmentinknownflyingsaucerscrash/recoveryincidents.Stringfielddiedin1994andwasdirectorofCivilianResearch,Interplanetary

Page 101: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

FlyingObjects,knowntomanyasCRIFOS.ProbablyStevens’smajorcontributiontotheSteinmanbookwashisinterviewswithanunfortunately

unnamedwitnesswhohadseenoneofthemostsought-afterUFOdocumentsinrecenthistory:TheGrudge/BluebookReport#13,rumoredtobetheAboveTopSecret/EyesOnlyreportrevealingeverythingtheAirForceknowsaboutUFOsandaliens,andneverrevealedtothepublic.

Stevensextractedmaterialfromthememoryoftheanonymouswitness,whowasthenworkingwiththeUSAF,andthatmaterialdescribedthecontentofthemassivereportsosensitivethatthewitness,afterbeingassignedtoabstractthedocumentrecoveredfromanEastEuropeanBloccountry,wasdeportedfromaUSAFinstallationintheUKasanundesirable,andseparatedfromtheservice.Stevensrecordedeverythingthewitnessrememberedfromreadingthisalmost-mythicalreportsummarizingwhatthegovernmentknowsaboutflyingsaucers,fromcrashestodescriptionofthetypesofEThumanoidsencounteredbythemilitary.Itisavalue-addedadditiontotheAztecstoryasreportedbySteinman.

SomeofthecriticismleveledonUFOCrashatAztecisbaseduponwhatStevensincludedinthebookconcerningthePaulBennewitzcase.ItwasBennewitzwholikelybeganthestoryofanundergroundbase21/2milesnorthwestofDulcé,NewMexico,wherealiensallegedlyworkedincollusionwiththeU.S.military.BecauseBennewitz,whodiedin2003,wasascientistwithimpressivecredentialsandasuccessfulbusiness,hisDulcéstoryhasbeenwidelydistributedandenlargeduponbymanydevotees,butmostconservativeresearchershavediscountedthetale.Televisiondocumentarieshaveperpetuatedthestoryofaseven-levelundergroundalienbasethere;theauthorshavecertainlyvisitedDulcé,andScotthascampedatopArchuletaMesaandhasneverseenanysuggestionofsubterraneanactivityonthemesa.Keepinmindthatsuchaninstallationwouldrequiremassiveventsandothersurfaceinfrastructuretokeeppeople(andaliens)aliveunderground.

AlthoughpeculiarphenomenaarecommonintheFourCornersarea,itisdifficulttodocumentmostofit.Asforundergroundactivity,therewasacontrolledundergroundnuclearexplosionintheareanamedGasBuggythatwasrelatedtoundergroundoilandgasexploration.DetailsandartifactsofthiseventarechronicledattheAztecPioneerMuseumindowntownAztecasledbyCuratorDaleAnderson.

TheBennewitzstoryhasnothingwhatsoevertodowiththeAztecIncident,andnoattempthaseverbeenmadetoconnectBennewitz’slongaccountwiththeoriginalsaucerincidentonHartCanyonmesa.

WilliamSteinmannowlivesinseclusionsomewhereintheWest,vowingneveragaintogetinvolvedinflyingsaucerresearch.ItismorethancoincidencethathewaswarnednottopursueaninvestigationintotheAzteccrashandthat,whenhepersistedandpublishedhisbook,hewasfiredfromhisjobof14yearsandwassubsequentlyunabletofindworkanywhereintheaerospaceindustry.

SteinmanhasconfidedthatintheyearsfollowingpublicationofUFOCrashatAztec,hewasharassedonthephoneandthatheandhiswifehadreceiveddeaththreats,somethinghardlyworththetroubleiftheAztecrecoveryhadbeenonlyahoaxorafable.HisworkontheAztecIncidentopenedupnewterritoryinflyingsaucerresearchandwasaforerunnertotheresearchofScottRamseyandcompany.IntheendSteinman’svalianteffortshavebornefruit,andAztecisincreasinglyacceptedbyresearchersandstudentsasarealevent.Thebookinthehandsofreadersrightnowcontinuestoestablisharealitythatshouldhavebeensharedwiththepublic60yearsagobutisunlikelytoeverbepubliclyadmittedbytheU.S.government.

In1986,Steinmansaidsimplyinhisbook,“Ifthereissomethingtothisflyingsaucerphenomenon,thenthepublichasarighttoknow.”9

ChrisB.EvansandtheUFO/AlienMysteryThefullstoryofAztecwouldnotbecompletewithoutexaminingthelifeanduntimelydeathofChris

B.Evans,whocalledAztec,asachaptertitleinhisnow-scarce2003book,AlienConspiracy:

Page 102: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

UnravelingtheUFO/AlienMystery,“TheMotherofAllAlienCrashTales.”EvanscamefromtheOhioRiverValleyareaofwesternWestVirginia,andinhisearlylifeheshowedawiderangeoftalentsandachievementsfromsportsinhighschooltoradiobroadcastengineeringandmilitaryelectronicsystemsandroboticsdesign.HisnaturalcuriousnatureasanamateurscientistandinventoreventuallyturnedhimtoUFOresearch.

Atall,rangymanwithmasculinegoodlooks,Evanshadanadvantagemostresearcherswouldenvy:Hewasfinanciallywelloff.Thiseconomicadvantageallowedhimtotravelwhenhewished,andtospendtimeresearchingandwritingwhenhewassoinclined.

Evans’scuriosityledhimtoopenupthe1947MauryIslandflyingsaucerstorythathadlaindormantsinceRayPalmertoldthestoryinoneofhispulpmagazinesandcoauthoredit,aswellwithKennethArnoldinArnold’spersonalstoryTheComingoftheSaucers,publishedbyPalmerin1952.

EvansreprisedtheMauryIslandstory,whosesubstanceincludedadoughnut-shapedsaucerspewingslag-likeresiduedownontoafishingboatpatrollingunderneathitintheeastbayofMauryIsland,oppositethecityofTacoma,Washington,onJune21,1947.AccordingtoboatcaptainHaroldDahl,thesaucervomitedthefragmentsthatraineddown,heavilydamaginghisboatandkillinghisdog.10

ResearchingintheyearsbeforeHistoryChannelTVdocumentariessuchasUFOFilesandUFOHunters,EvansrecountedthattheMauryIslandoccurrenceattractedtwo4thAirForceIntelligenceofficers,whoflewintoTacomafromHamiltonFieldinCaliforniainanewB-25Mitchelltwin-enginebomberandwhoseplanecrashedonitsreturntrip,killingthemboth.TheofficersweretransportingaboxoffragmentsallegedlydroppedfromtheMauryIslandsaucerontothefishingboat.

OneoftheprincipalsinvolvedinMauryIslandwasamannamedFredCrisman,whomArnoldhadnamedastheboatcaptain’s“superiorofficer,”andwhowasprobablyoneoftheboat’sowners.WhenEvanscametothecase50yearslater,hediscoveredthatFredCrismanwasalsoinvolvedanothercase,halfacontinentaway,in1968,whenDistrictAttorneyJimGarrisonfoundthesameFredCrismanassociatedwithNewOrleansbusinessmanClayShaw,whowasindictedbyGarrisonwiththeconspiracytoassassinatePresidentJohnF.KennedyinNovember1963.Shawwasfound“notguilty,”butGarrison’s1968book,OntheTrailoftheAssassins,aswellasapressreleasefromGarrison,labeledCrismanasbeingengagedin“undercoveractivitiesforthemilitaryindustrialcomplex,”andsayingthatCrismanwasassociatedwiththeCIA.11

ItwasEvanswhouniquelymadetheconnectionbetweenthatfamouscaseandMauryIsland.KeepinginmindthattheCIAwasinitsinfancyin1947,thequestioniswhetherCrismanwasworkingforthegovernmentin1947orpossiblyrecruitedafterthattime.WhatisknownisthatdirectlyafterthecrashoftheB-25,CrismanwaswhiskedawayonanArmybombertoAlaska,wherehewasnolongeravailableforinterviews.Atthatpoint,hedisappearedfromtheMauryIslandmystery.ItwaspresumedbyearlyauthorsthatCrismanwasa“reserveofficer”andthuscouldhavebeenavailabletobeemployedfordisinformationpurposeswhentheMauryIslandepisodewasinvestigated.

Itisimportanttoconsiderthatallofthese1947eventsoccurredinthecontextofArnold’sJune24,1947,sightingofaformationofobjectsnearMt.Rainier,whichisgenerallyconsideredtheeventheraldingthemoderneraofflyingsaucerandUFOsightings.

EvansreadwidelyinhisquestforUFOinformation,andhewasnextinterestedinAztec,acasethathadalsolaindormantfordecadesafterFrankScully’s1950book,BehindtheFlyingSaucers,andthereisnoindicationthatEvanswasawareofWilliamSteinman’s1986bookwhenhewasfirstexploringScully’sstory.

Theawakeningofthe1947MauryIslandcaseforhis2003bookisanexampleofthebrandofcuriosityevincedbyEvans,whosimilarlysoughtoutsomeofthesourcesfortheAzteclanding,certainthattheflyingsaucerrecoverytherewasintentionallycoveredupandridiculedtosuchanextentthatfew

Page 103: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

flyingsaucerresearcherswouldseriouslyconsideracasethathasturnedouttobeasimportantastheRoswellIncidenttothehistoryofflyingsaucersinAmerica.

EvanssawsimilaritiesinthewaythestoriesofKennethArnoldandFrankScullyweredebunkedandmarginalized,andheretoldthestoryfromScully’sbook,asSteinmandidin1986andtheRamseys/Thayer/Warrenteamdidin2012.AlloftheauthorswereconvincedthatScully’sstorywascompletelyfactual,eventhoughitwastarredwiththe“hoax”labelwhentheU.S.governmentginnedupfraudchargesagainstthoseitthoughthadspilledthebeansonAztec,anditusedanunemployedjournalisttowriteahitpieceforTrueMagazineintendedtodestroythereputationsofSilasNewtonandLeoGeBauer(seeChapter6),butneverdirectlychallengedthestoryinBehindtheFlyingSaucers.

WhenEvansfoundhiscopyofScully’salmost-forgottenbook,hewasimpressedenoughtocontactthesurvivingmembersofthefamily,particularlyFrank’sdaughters,Nonny,Moreen,andPat.Evans’sinstinctswereontarget,astheScullyfamilyreinforcedtheintegrityofSilasNewtonaswellasthestorywrittenbytheirfather.EvansapparentlywasconvincedthattheattackonNewtonandGeBauerwascontrived,andheconcludedhisinvestigationofAztecbywriting,“Yethe(Scully)mayhaveultimatelywonthewaragainstsecrecyforeveryonethroughtheguiseofhisbook—whichisnowlegendaryinthefieldofufology.”12Ofcourse,20yearsagoScully’sbookwasdifficulttofindeitherinfirsteditionHenryHolt&CompanyhardcoverorthePopularLibrarypaperbackwithitsfull-colorsciencefictionstylecoverillustration,allintheerabeforeeBaylauncheditsmammothonlineauctionsitein1995.TodayScullyhasevenbeenreprintedinsoftcoverforthosewhohaveyettoreadoneofthemostimportantbooksinthehistoryofflyingsaucerstudies.

EvansseemstohaveestablishedcordialrelationswiththeScullyfamily,andoneofthedaughterstoldhimthatFrankhad,inthe1960s,beenveryinterestedinabductioncases,suchastheBettyandBarneyHillcase,whichhasbeenconsistentlyrelatedovertheyearsfromTheInterruptedJourneybyJohnG.Fuller(1962),andmorerecentlywithCapturedbyStantonFriedmanandKathleenMarden.HealsosawsimilaritiesinthewayhesaidthegovernmentdebunkedtheMauryIslandsaucercaseandthewaythereputationsofNewtonandGeBauerwereattackedinprintandincourt.

EvansgoesintosomedetailtoexplainthatScully’smysterious“Dr.Gee”wasacompositeofasmanyaseightscientistswhoworkedontherecoveredAzteccraft.Ofcourse,Ramsey’slongestchapterdoesthesamethingingreaterdetailinthe2012book,nowinitssecondedition.

Evans’stechnicalexpertisebroughthimtowriteindetailabouttheelectronicdevicessupposedlyfoundintherecoveredAztecsaucer—thesmall“radio”thatemittedtonesonaregularbasisbuthadnovisiblepowersource,andheshowedinterestinthedoodlebugdetectiondevicethatwasbeingusedtofindsubterraneanoilorconvictNewtonandGeBauerinaDenverdistrictcourt.Inthelattercase,thedevicebroughttocourtwasjustasurplusdevicethatwasdescribedassomethinglikethedeviceusedbyNewtontodefraudhisvictims,butnotthedeviceitself.Ofcourse,todayoilisroutinelydetectedbysuchequipment,andNewtonwasaheadofhistimeinthatregard.

EvansinterviewedMoreenScullybytelephonetodiscovermoreaboutthecharacterofSilasNewton,andshetoldhimabouttheflamboyantwaytheoilmandressedandtalked,butneversuggestedthathewasanythingotherthansincereaboutflyingsaucers.

Intheverynextchapterofhisbook,Evanswrote,“TheSilencersCometh,”andheinvestigatedthe1953originoftheoriginalMenInBlackstorieswhereinshadowyvisitorsfrightenedindividualswhohadwitnessedflyingsaucersintosilence—eveniftheydidnotreportorpublicizetheirexperiences.Atthatpoint,Evanswasreportingwell-knownharassmentofgenuineearlyUFOresearcherswhosephonesweretappedandwhowereevensometimesthreatened.Inhiswork,andininterviews,Steinmanclaimedthattheseagentssometimesdidworsethings,butEvansshowedmuchinterestingovernmentcounterintelligencethathesaidevenextendedtoacompliantpressworkinghandinhandwiththe

Page 104: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

governmenttodownplaysaucerstoriesandtomarginalizeinsocietyanyonewhoreportedsuchincidents.Asevidencedbyhisbook,EvanspursuedScully’sstorypagebypage,asSteinmanhaddonebefore

himandasthecurrentauthorshavedonesincethattime.Evans’sbookgoesontodiscussotherUFOincidentsthatarenotgermanetothetopicoftheAztec

Incident,andhespendsagreatdealofhisbookonthetheoriesofancientaliens,linkingUFOstotheBible,anddiscussingindetailanabducteecase,butwhenEvansestablishedAlarmClockPublishingandpublishedhisbookasa“limitedresearchedition,”hispersonalstorywasdestinedtotakeabizarreturn.

DuringthetimewhenScottwaspursuingthedetailsoftheAztecrecoveryandhadyettoactuallyorganizehismountainsofdocumentsintoabook,hebecameacquaintedwithChrisEvans,andtheRamseysforgedafriendshipwiththeWestVirginiaresearcherandauthor.AccordingtoScott,“Webuiltagoodrelationshipwithhim,andhe[Evans]plannedtovisitforathree-dayweekendtoourhousetoreviewtheresearchwehaddoneontheAzteccase.”

Sadly,Evans’slifeendedbeforehereachedNorthCarolina.ItisallegedthathejumpedtohisdeathofftheInterstate64bridgewestofdowntownCharleston,WestVirginia,butatthetimeofthisprinting,theinvestigationintohisdeathisstillanopencase.ChrisEvansisstillmissedasafriendaswellasaresearcher.

Page 105: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

10

MovingtheCraft

“HesaidthattheAirForce,inwantingtomovetheship,decidedtodismantleitbecauseitwastoobigtomoveotherwise….Afterithadbeenbrokendown,itwasmovedtoagovernmenttestinglaboratoryandthereitremained….”

—FrankScully,19501

Inrecentyears,morethanonecritichassuggestedthatmovingaflyingsauceraslargeastheoneallegedlyfoundatAztecwouldbeatremendoustask.EventhoughitwasreportedbyauthorFrankScullythatthecraftcameapartinsections,withtheruggedterrainofHartCanyon,itwouldstillbeadauntingtask.

DebunkerKarlPflocksaidin2002thathehaddoneresearchontheroadsinAztec,andhesaidtheroadswereprettymuchthesamein2002astheywerein1948.Karlsaidhethoughtthatmovingacraft100feetindiameterwouldhavebeeneasilyseenbytoomanypeoplein1948.Pflocksaidthattheroadsthen“wouldhavetakenyourightthroughthetownofAztecandthen(south)toBloomfield.”2Itwasdifficulttoarguethatpoint,ifinfacttheroadswerethesameastheyaretoday.

Thenextintelligentquestionwouldbe:AftergettingthecraftpastAztecandBloomfield,wherewasitactuallytaken?

WithLosAlamoscloseto160milesfromHartCanyonRoad,wouldthisbealikelydestination,orwoulditbeKirtlandAirForceBase?Kirtlandis190–200milesfromHartCanyon,andthebase,eventhen,housedSandiaNationalLaboratories.Fromeitherplace,itcouldhavepossiblybeentransportedtoWrightFieldinDayton,Ohio,homeoftheForeignTechnologyDivision.

OncethecraftwaspastCounselor,NewMexico,theproblemsassociatedwithmovingthediscwerebasicallyover.TheroadsleadingsoutheasttoKirtlandhadplentyof“high-wide”clearance,soweauthorswereonlyconcernedwithmovingfromthemesaontheroadsleadingoutoftheFourCornersarea.Wewilldiscussthepossibledestinationofthecraftinanotherchapter.

Acceptingthatthemethodofmovingthecraftwasanimportantareaofconcern,itwasdecidedtoenlisttheservicesofanexpertinthemovingoflargeloads.ScottcalledBillMetzger,whohadworkedforhisfatherinthemid-1970s.Billisanexpertonmovinglargeobjects,andthatwaswhattheseniorRamseydidforaliving.

WesentMetzgeraletterexplainingwhatwewereworkingon,justtoseeifhehadanyinterestinourproject,andhecalledthedayhereceivedthelettertosaythathewasavailablefortheproject.HedidcautionthathewasnofanofUFOs,flyingsaucers,orwhatevertheywerecalled.

Wedidnotwantanyone,regardlessoftalent,beingpro-saucer,andBill’sscientificmindsetwasidealtotheinvestigation.WemetinAztecattheStepBackInn,ahotelthatalwayshousedthespeakersfortheAztecUFOSymposium.Itisveryclosetotheroadleadingtothecrashsite.Metzgerandhiswife,Pam,chosetotravelfromConfluence,Pennsylvania,bytrainbecausehehasapassionforrailtransportation.

Metzgerhasperhapstheultimaterésuméformovinglargeobjects.Heworkedasanexpediter,startingin1975,meaningthathetraveledwithshipments,usuallybyrailcar,thatweretoowideortoohightobemovedbyconventionalmeans.Thisprocessrequiredre-routingrailcarstothetracksthatwereavailable

Page 106: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

tohandle“high-wideloads,”astheywerereferredtointheindustry.Untilhisdeath,ScottRamsey’sfatherwaspresidentofRICA,theRailwayIndustrialClearanceAssociation,whichmonitoredmovementoflargeobjectsandplottedrailwayclearances.WithMetzger’shelp,hesupervisedthemovementoflargetransformers,generators,turbines,andbridgepieces.

Metzgerisalsoanaccomplishedwriterandhaspublishedarticlesforseveralmagazines,suchasTrainsandClassicTrains.HeisamonthlycontributortoSomersetMagazineandtheauthorofTheGreatAlleghenyPassageCompanion.Hispassionforrailcarsandmovinglargeobjectshasremainedwithhimtothisday.

Beforethetrip,MetzgerwassentacopyofFrankScully’sBehindtheFlyingSaucerssohecouldreadthepartabouthowthecraftcameapart,asclaimedinthebook.BillalsodidhisownresearchastowhatwasavailableintheU.S.militaryinventoryasfarastrucks,flatbeds,cranes,andsoforththatcouldhavebeenusedin1948tomoveanobject100feetindiameter.WealsopulledmapsofthenorthernNewMexicoarea,becausethetheoriesaboutmovingthecrafthadnotbeenonourradarscreenforsometime.ThemapsrevealedthattheroadsgoingintotheFourCornersareawerenotthesamein1948,despitewhatKarlPflockhadsaid.Authors’note:Thisiswhyyoudoyourownresearch!

TracingtheRoadsin1948DuringthattriptoAztecin2008,SuzanneandI(Scott)visitedtheAztecPioneerMuseumlocatedon

MainStreetandfoundthattheroadstodayaremilesapartfromthewaytheyranin1948.WhentheChacoCanyonruinswereexcavatedintheearly1950s,theStateHighwayandTransportationDepartmentdecidedtore-routeU.S.Highway44sothatitwouldpassclosetotheruins,withthegoalofattractingtourismtothearea.Theoilfieldsintheareahadbeengoingstrongformanyyears,andanotherboomstartedintheearly1950s.OilcompanieswantedtheoldLargoCanyonroutetoAztecrestrictedtooilfieldworkersandtheirequipment.

ThenewHighway44anglednorthwestfromCounselor,uptotheFarmington/Aztecarea,whereastheoldroadranduenorthalongLargoCanyonupveryclosetoAztec.

Thediscoveryofthesehighwaychangessince1948wasamajoradvanceinourresearch,astheoldroadswouldhavebeensufficient,withappropriatesecurity,tomovealargeobject.Afterstudyingthemapsandtalkingwithveteranoilfieldworkers,wefinallydeterminedthecorrectroutesouthfromAztecin1948basedonperiodroadmapsandoilfieldmaps.

WespentthefirstdayatthecrashsitefamiliarizingMetzgerwiththeterrainandthetopofthemesa.Thenextdaywedidadryrun,leavingthecrashsitetotracetheroutetotheroadthatwouldtakeussouthtoCounselor.

WethendrovesouthtoCounselorinordertotracetherouteinreverse,northtothecrashsite,andtolookforwhatBillcalled“pinchareas”thatcouldcauseaproblemforanoversizedload.Suzanne’sbrother,RussNinos,hasmanyyearsofexperienceinmovingheavyequipment,andheworksasaforemanforanindependentoilcompanyinFarmington;hiscompanyoperateswellsintheLargoCanyonBasin.Thesetripsinvolvedlongdaysand,withAugusttemperaturesinthehigh80s,theworkwashotandrigorous.

Bylateafternoonthatfirstday,wehadbacktrackedfromCounselortothecrashsiteinHartCanyonwithveryfewproblemsalongtheway.Billkeptprecisenotesastothepinchareas,andtheywerenotedonthemaps.

Thenextday,wemadethetripfromthecrashsitetoCounseloragain,andBilldecidedthatthiswasa“doablemove,”evenconsideringthatthemilitarywouldbeusing1948technology.Billalsowrotehisviewsandcommentsonmovingthecraft.

In1948theroadleadingfromAlbuquerquerannorthwesttowardtheFourCornersareaandwasan

Page 107: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

improvedroadforthemostpart—meaningpaved,oratleastgravelpackedwithheavysand.TheroadmadearightturntothenorthatCounselor,asmalltownwithahotel,abar,andafewotherbuildings.

Today,Counselorhostsanaturalgaspumpingstationtothenorth,andafewbuildings,butnotmuchmore.ItisnostalgictovisualizehowthissmallNewMexicosettlementwouldhavelooked60-plusyearsago,withonlyatradingposttogreetthewearytravelerwhohadbeentravelingtheroughroadsandneededabreak.Theoldroadturnedhardright(north)andranupthroughacanyonpastseveralsmallerranchesandaweatheredschoolhousebeforeleadingnorthtowardLargoCanyon.Thetripislongandslow,evenbytoday’sstandards;onecanonlyimaginewhatitwaslikein1948.TheoldremainsofthetradingpostarestillvisibletodayattheturnfromCounselorontotheoldroad.Theroadrunsthroughnaturalterraincutoutbynature,throughEscrinoCanyonalongtheriverbasin,andintotheCañonLargobasin,usuallyreferredtoasLargoCanyon.

In1948,withthisbeingoneoftworoadstotheAztecarea,thetravelerwouldthencrossoverwhatisnowHighway64justeastofBlancoandcontinue,eithertaking64WesttoBloomfieldtogettoAztec,orturningnorthcrossingover64andtakingwhatisnowN.M.Route173intoAztec.

Inmoderntimes,oraftertherestorationofChacoCanyon,U.S.Highway550(oldHighway44)runsnorthwestfromBernalillo,throughthetownofCuba,uptoCounselor,andthennorthwesttoLybrook,Nageezi—theentrancetoChacoCanyon—andontoBloomfieldbeforecontinuingnorthon550intoAztec.Highway550thencontinuesnorthtoCedarHillandacrosstheColoradoborder,withDurangothefirstcityofanysizetobeencountered.

WhatwediscoveredwasafarcryfromwhatKarlPflockhaddescribedin2002whenhesaidhehadresearchedtheseroadsandassuredusthattheroadswerealmostexactlyastheywerein1948.Eventhoughtherewasalikely1948routeformovingtheflyingsaucerundetectedfromAztectoLosAlamosorKirtlandAFB,otherobstaclesandchallengeswerefoundthatwouldhavetobeexplainedifweweretoprovetherecoverytobepossibleandlikely.

ResurrectingtheDragonWagonBeforewemadeoursimulatedsaucertransportfromtheHartCanyonsite,wehadtoagreeonthe

typesofequipmentavailableandsubstantialenoughforsuchanimposingtop-secretoperation.Westartedlookingatnotonlywhatheavy-dutyequipmentthemilitarycarriedinitsinventory,butalsowheretheseheavymoverswerelocatedin1948.BilldiscoveredthattheM-25DragonWagon,whichwasusedasatanktransportvehicleduringWWII,wasstoredonNewMexicobasesafterWWII.

TheM-25wasauniquevehiclepoweredbyasix-cylindergasengineproducing240BHP.TheU.S.ArmySupplyCatalogreferredtoitastheG-160.Thetruckwasconsidered6x6,meaningallsixrearwheelswerechaindriven.TheM-25wasthebrainchildofSanFrancisco–basedKnuckeyTruckCo.thatsubmittedthedesign,andthePacificCarandFoundryCo.basedinSeattlewonthemilitarycontracttobuildthem.

TheDragonWagonwentintoservicein1941,andmostoftheseheavymoversremainingafterWWIIweresenttotheNewMexicodesert,wheretheywereauctionedoff.Mostwerepurchasedbyloggingcompanies,becausethevehiclesseldomgotstuckandbecausetheycouldtheycouldsafelyhaula40-tonload.TheM-26wentintoservicein1944andserveduntilwar’send.ThisversionwassimilartotheM-25butwasanunarmoredunit.TheflatbedtrailerdesignatedtheM-15wasusedinconjunctionwithboththeM-25andM-26,anditcarriedthreeon-boardwinchestohelploadandretrieveheavyarmoredvehicles.

BothDragonWagonsemployedcrewsofsevenmen,andthecombinationwouldbeagoodmatchforhaulingoutsomethingaslargeasthediscthatlaysilentlyatopthemesaonHartCanyonRoad.

ThevehiclegroundclearancewashighenoughtohandletheroughterrainfoundonEuropean

Page 108: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

battlefieldsandcouldeasilytraversetherocksanddirtoftheHartCanyonarea.Becausewedonotknowtheweightofthe100-footdiscbeingrecovered,itwouldhavebeennecessarytohaveatruckandtrailercombinationthatcouldeasilyhaul40tons,andmostmilitaryrecordsshowthateven50-tonvehiclescouldbeloadedandtransported.

Diagramofthe1940sDragonWagonheavyequipmenttransportmovingthesaucerandcontrastedtoaV-2rocket.

Wespenttimein2007goingthroughseverallibraries,museums,andlocalarchivesintheFourCornersarea,onetripleadingtoMancos,Colorado,northwestofAztecandduewestofDurango.OnepurposewastocheckonastoryofBaptistMinisterSolonLemleyBrown,whoclaimedinlateMarch1948thathehadbeenatthecrashsite.Theotherpurposewastoseeiftheoldnewspapersmentionedanythingunusualbeingreportedintheirareain1948.IngoingthroughtheMancosTimesfromMarch1948,wenoticedthestoryaboutalargedamprojectwithMontezumaCountyandthetownofMancosaskingpeopletostayclearoftheroadsatcertaintimesbecauseoftheneedtomoveheavyequipmenttothedamproject.

AnotherarticlewefoundaskedresidentstoboardsomeoftheworkerssotheywouldhavealocalplacetostayduringthisconstructionprojectandnothavetocommutefromeitherCortezorDurango.

IncheckingwiththeBureauofReclamation,wefoundthatsomelargeequipmentwas,infact,takenthroughtowntothelong-termMancosProjectin1948.Therecordsshowheavyearth-movingequipment,toweringcranes,andotherlowboy-styletruckswerebroughtintomoveconcretestructuresand/orsteel.Itwouldbeasafeassumptionatthispointtosaythatifallthisequipmentwasonlyashortdistancefromtheallegedflyingsaucerincident,itwouldcertainlynothavebeenabigdealmovingitdowntoHart

Page 109: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Canyonforaweekortwo.Someofthesedetailsmayneverbeknown;however,thepiecesofthatpuzzleofhowtomovealargeflyingsaucerwerefallingintoplace.

Re-CreatingtheMoveThenextthingwastoleaveittotheexperttotellusifthismovewaspossiblewithwhatweknewwas

availablein1948NewMexico.LeavingtheHartCanyonsite,headingsouthontheoldroads,thefirstobstacleencounteredwasarathersteephillheadingeastfromtheArkansasLoop(atthebaseofHartCanyonMesa).Wehadtomakesomeassumptionsastowhatthatthathillwouldhavebeenlikein1948,andthatmeantconsideringwaterandwinderosion,aswellascheckingoldmapstoseeiftheseroadshadeverbeenre-cutovertheyears,andtomakecertaintheywerethesameastheywerein1948.

Everygeologicalfeaturealongthewaywasmarkedandmeasured,includingallgroundclearances.Notripwouldbecompletewithoutitsscaryorproblematicareas,andtheroadssouthtowardCounselorpresentedtheirshareoftheseproblems.

MapoftheAztecareashowingtherecoveryrouteformovingthesaucertoasecurelocation.

Atonepoint,nearwhatiscalledthefive-milecrossing,weencounteredarailroadbridgethatwasnotwideenoughtoallowthetransportofanobjectofgreatsize.Thebridgecrossedoveradryriverbed.Thiswasoneofthosepinchareaswewereexpecting;itwasnotevennecessarytoreachforthemeasuringtape.

Duringaquickwalkingsurveyofthebridge,anameplatewasfoundshowingittobemanufacturedlongbeforetheflyingsaucerincident,sothismeantmoredifficultiesinoureffortstorelivethemovingofacraftofthissizeacrossatightbridge.Bill’sencyclopedicknowledgeoftherailroadindustryquicklycameintoplayasheexplainedthatthiswasanarrowgaugerailroadbridge,andthetrackshadlongsincebeenremoved,withthebridgenowonlyusedforroadvehicles.

Becausetherewasnotraceofaraillineinthatarea,Billhadsaidthat,afterthenarrowgaugerail

Page 110: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

lineslefttheBloomfieldandAztecarea,thebridgewasprobablymovedfromadismantledraillineandinstalledacrossthedrywashtoassistthevehiclesusedbytheoilcompanies,insteadofjusttearingupthespanforscrap.Researchsubsequentlyprovedthat,indeed,theoldbridgewasafrontiernarrowgaugerailroadbridgefromtheBloomfieldareathatwasmovedtotheLargoCanyonareainthe1960stoaidoilfielddevelopment.

Uponfurtherexaminationoftheriverbed,acrossingwasfoundwheretheoldroaddroppedintothedryriverbedandouttheotherside.Itcouldeasilyhandleatruck,car,or,inourcase,fullyinsuredrentalvehicle!Thisareawasnowclearformovingthehypothetical“saucer”downthecanyontowardCounselor.Authors’Note:If,afterreadingthisbook,youdecidetoretracethisscenicjourney,bringfoodand

water,andmakesureyoubringafour-wheeldrivevehiclewithgenerousgroundclearance.Althoughtheareacanbeactivewithoilfieldworkersatcertaintimesoftheyear,therecanalsobefloodingduringthesummerrainyseason.Ifyougetstuck,youcouldbeoutthereovernightbeforeyouarefound.

BillMetzger“Moves”theSaucerHereisBillMetzger’saccountofhowfeasibleitwouldhavebeentomovetheAztecsaucer3:ThereisnoquestioninmymindthatsomethinghappenedoutonthatmesaaboveHartCanyon.

Somebodywenttoquiteabitofefforttocutaroadintothesite,cutdownortrimbackobstructingtreesandpoura6-foot-squareconcreteslab.ItisnotthepurposeofthischaptertoproveordisprovetheexistenceoftheAzteccraft.Scottasked

metodeterminewhethersuchanobjectwiththemeasurementsmostoftencitedincontemporaryaccountscouldbemovedandhowthatmovecouldbeaccomplished.Unlessaneyewitnesscomesforwardorastackof8x10glossiesoftheincidentsurfaces,anythingelseattheremoveof60+yearsisofcoursepureconjecture.TheArmypersonnelassignedtoretrievethecraftfromthemesaaboveHartCanyonfaceda

dauntingtask.Herewasadisk100feetindiameterand6-to12-feethighbymostaccounts.Itmayhavebeenlight,butitwasstillbig.ItssizewasmorethantwiceaslongasacapturedGermanV-2rocket,whichwasbeingtestedatthetimeatWhiteSands.Itsdiameterwas10timestheV-2’smaximumwidth.Further,itwasabout100airmilesfromLosAlamos,thenearestgovernmentinstallation.Ofcourse,thelanddistancebetweenthetwopointswouldbeconsiderablylonger.Thecraftlandedonasandy,rockysiteonamesaabout100feetabovethefloorofHartCanyonat

theedgeofacliff.Theclosestroadwasabout500feetaway.Thesitewascoveredwithjunipertreesabout10feethigh.Hadthecraftflown20orsofeetlower,therecoveryteamwouldhavefoundnothingbutapileofdebris;thecraftwouldhaveflowndirectlyintothesideofthecliff.AhundredfeetmorealtitudewouldhaveresultedinitcrashingintothesideofHartMountain.Thecrashsiteisinhighdesertcountryofcanyonsandarroyos—drystreambeds—thathavebeen

cutthroughthesandstonetablerockbywindandwatererosionpresentanaturalcorridorfortransportation.ThispartofNewMexicowasthen,asitisnow,sparselypopulated,withnooverheadclearanceproblemssuchasbridgesorpowerlines.Thedesertclimatealsopreservesevidenceofactivitiesthatoccurredhundreds,ifnotthousands,ofyearsago.Hadthishappenedinamoistclimate,therewouldhavebeenbarelyatraceofevidenceleft.In1948,thefirstchoicetomovealargeshipmentwasbyrail,butinthiscaserailwascompletely

outofthequestion.TheDenver&RioGrandeWesternRailroad(D&RGW)hadabranchlinefromDurangothroughAztecintoFarmington,butitwasanarrowgaugerailroad,whichmeantthedistancebetweentherailswasonly3feet.NormalstandardgaugeintheUnitedStatesis4feet,8inches.The

Page 111: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

linerannorthtoDurango,theneasttoAntonito,Colorado.Becauseofbridges,tunnels,andotherobstructions,thelargestloadthelinewouldhavebeenabletohandlewouldhavebeen10feetwideand15feet,6incheshigh.ThefirstbridgenorthofAztecacrosstheAnimasRiverwouldhavepresentedaninsurmountableobstacleonlyafewmilesnorthofthemouthofHartCanyon.Evenifclearanceshadbeensufficient,theD&RGWbranch(akathe“ChiliLine”)southfromAntonitotoSantaFe,theclosestpointtherailroadrantoLosAlamos,hadbeenabandonedin1941.Airtransportwasnotanoptioneither.Today,suchaloadwouldbeeasilymovedbyaheavylift

helicopter.Thebiggesthelicoptersinusein1948,however,weretheH-13andH-23lightobservationhelicopters,two-placemachinessimilartotheonesusedinthetelevisionshowM.A.S.H.Neitherwascapableofliftingaloadofmorethanafewhundredpounds.ThefirstAmericanhelicoptercapabletocarryingsuchalargeloadastheAzteccraftwastheChinookhelicopterof1961.Fixedwingaircraftwerealsooutofthequestion.Thebiggesttransportairplanesofthedaywereincapableofhandlingloadsmuchbiggerthanajeeporlighttruck.Thatleavesgroundtransportation.There’sanexcellentchancethementaskedwithmovingthe

craftwereveteransofWWIIandcapableofmovingpracticallyanything.TheirswasahighlymobilearmythathadthrustitsinfantryandarmoracrossEuropeandhoppedfromPacificislandtoPacificisland.Movinga100-foot-diameterobjectposednoparticularproblem,especiallyifitwasdisassembledintothreepieces,ascontemporaryaccountswouldindicate.Thethreepieces,assumingtheywereofequalsize,measured50by86.6feetby6to12feethigh.Unlessevidencetothecontraryarises,themostlikelyvehicletomovetheAzteccraftwastheArmy

M-26“DragonWagon”tractoranditsaccompanyingM-15semi-trailer.Itwasdesignedtorescuedisabledtanksduringthewar,and,byallaccounts,itdiditsjobquitewell.Itwasequippedwiththreewinches:oneof35,000-lb.capacityonthefrontofthecabandtwowith60,000-lb.capacityeachontherear.TheM-26wentintoproductionin1943and1,272werebuilt.Afterthewartheyweresoldtoothergovernmentsordispersedthroughoutthiscountry.Itwasa“6x6”truck,meaningallthreeaxlesandsixwheelsofthetractorwerepowered.Thesemi-trailerhadausablelengthof29feetandacapacityof40tons,althoughloadsofupto50

tonswerenotunknown.Thetruckwasequippedwithavarietyoftoolstoassistitinitsmission,includingweldingequipment.The“DragonWagon”wouldhavebeenthebesttruckforthejob,butany6x6tractorandlowboytrailerwouldhavesufficed.Toassistintherecoveryoftheobject,oneortwobulldozersandoneortwocraneswouldalsobe

needed.Thecraftwouldhavetobepickedupanddisassembled.Thecraneswouldneedboomsofabout60feettoliftaloadofsuchsize.Twocranesworkingintandemwouldbethebestmethodfordoingthejob.Theliftingrequirementwouldexplaintheneedforthemysteriousconcreteslabonthe“military

road.”Contemporarymilitarycranes,whethertheybetrackedortruck-mounted,hadawheelbaseofabout6feet.Becausethe“militaryroad”wascutintothesideofthehill,andnotnecessarilyintobedrock,theslabwouldhavebeennecessarytokeepthecraneanditsloadfromtopplingdownthehillsideasitloadedeachsectionontothetruck.Theredoesn’tappeartoberoomoneithersideoftheroadtoplaceoutriggerstostabilizeacranesotheslabwouldhavebeenthenextbestsolution.BothLosAlamosandtheWhiteSandstestingfacilitieswereundergoingconstantconstructionand

modification,duetoboththeatomicbombprojectsandtestingoftheV-2rockets,soprocuringconstructionequipmentwouldhavebeennoproblemforthejobofmovingtheAzteccraft.Nomatterwhatthespecificequipmentused,acradlewouldhavetobefabricatedtoholdthecraft

securelytothetrailer.Itwouldhavetofitthecontoursofthecraft,butanycompetentweldercouldhaveaccomplishedthis.Theloadwouldhavebeabout12feetoffthegroundtoclearthetractorcab

Page 112: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

creatinganoverhangoneachsideofthetrailer.Lowobstructionslikebrushandembankmentswouldn’thavepresentedaproblem.Highwindsandhighspeedswouldhavetreatedtheloadwithit2,616-square-footarealikeasail,however;slowspeedwouldhavebeentheorderoftheday.Theproblemofweatherwouldhavetohavebeentakenintoaccount;bothhighwindandflash

floodspresenteddisaster-causingpotential.Oncetheloadhadbeensecured,mostlikelytieddownwithsteelcable,transportingitwouldn’t

havebeenanespeciallydifficultproblem.Existingroadswouldbeusedwherefeasible.Ascoutingpartywouldbesentouttoeitherremoveorbypassobstaclesasnecessary.Whereclearanceproblemssuchascliffstooclosetotheroadwereencountered,itwouldbeasimplemattertobulldozeanewroadaroundit.Noonewasaroundtoraiseanyobjections.OncethegapthroughHartMountainjusteastofthecrashsitewascrossed,itwouldbeasimplemattertofollowthedrystreambeds,especiallywiththeexceptionaltractionoftheM-26andtheassistanceofbulldozers.Becauseofthetop-heavynatureoftheload,theroadwaywouldhavetobegradedfairlylevelfromsidetoside.Thefirsttrip,ofcourse,wouldbethetoughest.Thepresent-dayroadthroughtheHartMountaingappresentsthebiggestobstacletosuchamove.

Horizontalclearanceatthetopofthehillisonly25feet.Thereisroomtothenorthforatemporaryroadandsomeevidencethatthismayhavebeenthecase,buttheareaissopockmarkedwithoilandgaswellsandtheiraccessroadsthatit’shardtotellifthisinfacthappened.OnceoverHartMountain,it’saneasymattertomoveawideloaddownthrougheitherCabin

CanyonorLittlePumpCanyon(bothconvergeataboutthesameplace),downPumpCanyontothesettlementofTurley,acrosstheshallowSanJuanRiver,andthenupLargoCanyon.ThetightestclearanceonLargoCanyonRoadis39feetatgroundlevel.LargoCanyonwouldhave

beenthenaturalchoice,becauseU.S.Highway550hadn’tbeenbuiltyet.Thecanyonisthecourseofadry,sandy-bottomedriverbed,whichwouldhavebeenidealfor

transportingahighandwideload.Sometimestheexistingroadthroughthecanyoncomesclosetothecanyonwalls,butitwouldbeasimplemattertobypasstheroadbygradingatemporaryroadintheriverbed.Thereareseveralbridgesacrosssidestreams,buttheycanalsobeeasilybypassed.Mostalreadyare;theonlytimethebridgesgetusedseemstobeduringhighwaterperiods.Onceoutofthecanyon,travelingacrossthehighdesertnorthofCuba,throughGallina,Abiquiu,

andEspañola,northwardaroundtotheeasternslopeoftheextinctvolcanowhereLosAlamosislocatedwouldbearelativelyeasymatter.Thiswholesuppositionisbasedoncontemporaryaccountsthatsaytheobjectwasdisassembled

intothirds.Thequestionhasbeenaskedastothefeasibilityofmovingthe100-foot-diametercraftintact.Thefirstproblemisbalancinga100-footdiameterdiskona12-foot,6-inch-widetrailer.Theobjectwouldhaveasurfaceareaofmorethan7,850squarefeet—whichwouldmakequiteasailinanykindofwindandextremelydifficulttokeepbalancedandstable.Thebestsolutionwouldtobetoloaditontwotrailerssidebyside.Pullingsuchaloadontwo

semi-trailerswithtwotractorsandmaintainingalmostexactlysynchronizedspeedswouldbenearimpossiblewithoutdestroyingtheload.Housemoversusearigoftwotrailers—morelikemulti-axlewagons—pulledbyonetractor.Turningwouldbeextremelydifficult,especiallyonthetwistingcanyonroads.Bulldozerswouldhavetoclearamuchwiderroadwithbroadercurves.Thephysicalevidenceavailabletodaydoesn’tshowthistobethecase,lendingcredencetothefactthattheloaddidinfactcomeapartintothreesections.Inthecourseofpreparingthisreport,Ialsoflewoverthesiteandtookaerialphotos,whileScott,

Suzanne,mywife,Pam,andIdrovethelengthofLargoCanyonbacktoHartCanyon,observingroadconditionsandmeasuringclearances.Afterthesitevisit,Iresearchedareamapsandavailable

Page 113: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

equipmentdata.Myconclusionisthatyes,thisload,ifitexisted,couldhavebeenreasonably,ifnotalwayseasily,

beentransportedfromthecrashsiteatAztectoLosAlamos.

AsBillMetzgerwritesinhisaccount,hetookaerialphotographsofthecrashsiteandHartCanyonthankstothegenerosityofformerAztecmayorMikeArnold,whodonatedtimeinhisprivateplane.Itwasafterstudyingthephotosthatwesawalinearpatternwherepatchesofpiñontreeshadbeenplantedonthecrashsite.Therewasamarkeddifferencebetweentheorganicrandomscatteringoftreeselsewhereandwheresomeonehadpurposefullyreplantedrowsofpiñons.

Page 114: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

11

SonofaPreacherMan

“Theonlyonethatcouldeverteachme,wasthesonofapreacherman.”—JohnHurley/RonnieWilkins

January1948markedtherebirthofachurchinMancos,Colorado,butitwouldbeafarmoresignificantyearforBaptistpreacherSolonLemleyBrown.HeandhiswifesettleddowninarentedhouseinAztec,justsoutheastofMancos,wherehecouldbecentrallylocatedtohisresponsibilitiesinthearea.

BrownhadjustarrivedinMancostohelptheFirstBaptistChurch,whichhadbeenclosedforseveralyears.Mrs.McClainhadreopenedthechurchasaBibleschool,andnowtheAmericanBaptistChurchwantedthechurchtoreopen.Hewouldberesponsibleformorethanthecongregationintown.Brown’smissionsenthimtoCortez,Colorado,wherehewastheassociationmissionaryfortheAmericanBaptistChurch,managingtheBaptistchurchinCortezandwellasMancos.HistravelstookhimasfarsouthasGallup,NewMexico,andthenbacknorthtoFarmington,andPagosaSprings,Colorado,evenmakingcontactwithchurchmembersasfarnorthasGrandJunction.

Someweeks,itwasnotuncommonforBrowntodrive350miles,helpingotherBaptistchurchesaswellasofferinghisservicesteachingEnglishonthereservation35milesnorthofWinslow,Arizona,inwhatmightbedescribedashis“sparetime.”Hemanagedtodoallofthisandstillraiseafamilyonasalaryof$350amonth,whichseemedlikealotofmoneyforthetime,butBrownalsohadtopaytravelcostsoutofhisownpocket.

OnMarch25,1948,almostthreemonthsafterhelpingtoreopentheFirstBaptistChurchofMancos,Brown’slifewaschangedbysomethingheexperienced52milessouthofMancosonabackroadinNewMexico.Thatevening,BrownreturnedtoMancosfromtheFourCornersareaofNewMexico,wherethetownsofFarmington,Aztec,andBloomfieldarelocated,andheseemedvisiblyshakentothosewhosawhimthatevening.

BrownsummonedBruceSayre,thedeaconofthechurch,foranunscheduledmeetingattheSayrehome.OnceMr.SayreandhissonWalter(Walt)wereassembled,thedistraughtpreacherexplainedtohisnewdeaconthathehadalife-changingexperienceandfeltcompelledtoshareitwiththem.Hetoldthemthatwhathewasabouttosaywouldnot,orshouldnot,changetheirChristianbeliefsystem,butthatitmightchangehowtheylookedatlifeonthisplanetandtheouterheavens.1

Basedonmy(Scott’s)interviewwithDr.AutreyBrown,thesonofSolonLemleyBrown,wewillpiecetogetherwhatwefirmlybelievehappenedthatnight.2TheseniorBrowntoldtheSayresthat,ashewasdrivingfromtheFourCornersareaearlyinthemorningthatday,itcametohisattentionthatsomethinghadhappenedoutonadirtroadoutsideofAztec.Hewaseitherdirectedbyorhefollowedsomecarsortruckstoseewhatassistanceamanoftheclothmightpossiblylend.Hewasledtobelievesomekindofaccidenthadoccurred,andotherswereheadinginthatdirection.Heimaginedtheworstcase,suchasanexplosioninoneofthegaswells.Apipelinecouldhaveruptured,andtheremightbeinjuries.

Ashearrivedneartheloopintheroadwhereothervehicleswereparked,anoilfieldworkerledhimtothetopofthemesa,wherehesawalarge,disc-shapedcraftlyingatanangleontheground.Hesawa

Page 115: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

numberofyoungworkersstandingaroundthecraft,examiningitandtalkingamongthemselves.OneofthetwopoliceofficersonthemesaimmediatelyapproachedBrown,explainingthatthereweresomebodiesinsidethestrangecraft.

Thepreacher,notsureofwhathehadcomeacross,offeredtohelpinanywaypossible.OneofthepolicementhentoldBrownthatthemilitaryhadbeenalertedtotheincidentandthattheywereontheway.ThebestBrowncoulddowastolookinsidethecraftwhereherememberedseeing“afew”bodies,possiblythree,slumpedoveratableorcontrolpanelofsomesorts.Heaskedsomeoftheyoungworkerswhathadhappened,andalltheycouldtellhimwasthatthecrafthadbeendiscoveredearlierthatmorningastheyrespondedtoacallconcerningabrushfirenearthedriptanksorstoragetanksonHartCanyonRoad.OneworkertoldBrownthatthereweremorebodiesonanother“deck”ofthecraft,butnoneseemedtobemovingoralive.

Brownmusthavebeenpuzzledastowhymilitaryofficialshadbeencontactedinsteadofcivilianemergencyhelp,whichwouldcertainlybeavailableattheSanJuanCountyseatofAztecjustafewmilesaway,butverysoon,aspromisedbythepoliceofficer,amilitarypresencearrivedonthemesa.Asmightbeexpected,themilitaryimmediatelytookcontrol;BrownsaidhecouldnotidentifywhethertheywereArmyorAirForce.HetoldtheSayrethathewasquestionedbyanofficerwhoseemedtobeincommand.

Brownwouldhaveseenthateveryonewasbeingseparatedintogroups,whileheandthepolicemenstoodtothesidebythemselves.Asuniformedmenmovedaroundthecraft,theyoungmenwereseparated,andconversationswerebeingconductedthatdidnotincludethetwolawenforcementofficers.

Themilitarythenbroughtafewofthe“small,children-sizedbodies”outofthelargedisc.Themesawasbecomingatotallymilitaryoperation,asthecivilianoilfieldworkersandotherswerenowgone.Afterthebodieswerebroughtoutontothemesa,Brown,whowasalonewiththemilitarybythattime,wasgivenaburdenofresponsibilitynottotalkofthisincidentfortherestofhislife.BrownsaidhewastoldbytheofficerincommandthatwhathehadseenwasofthehighestnationalsecurityandeventhoughBrownwasa“manofthecloth,”hecouldnevertellanyonewhathehadwitnessed.Brownsaidhetriedtoaskquestions,butthecommandingofficerdidnotanswer,reducingtheconversationtothegivingoforders.

BrownrecountedtotheSayresthat,whilehewasstillonthemesa,somelargeflatbedtrucksarrived,seeminglyoutofnowheretopossiblyloadthislargecraftandthebodiesofthecrew.AsBrowntoldthisstorybackinMancosthatnight,BruceSayre,deaconandfellowparishioner,clearedhisthroattobreakthesilencefollowingthestory.Brownlookedathimandsaid,“Youdon’tbelieveme,doyou?”

TheelderSayre,takenabackbythepreacher’sremark,saidthathedidbelievehim,notingthattearswerewellinginBrown’seyes,andBrownemphasizedthathehadnoreasontomakeupsuchatale.BrownwasquotedastellingSayre,“I’mtryingtobuildthischurchandgetitbackonitsfeet.WhywouldImakethisup?IsweartoyouIamtellingyouthetruth.”

Atthatpoint,Brownreportedlybecameveryemotional,withtearsstreamingdownhisface.HesummeduphisstorytotheSayresbysayinghewasforbidden(bythemilitary)totalkaboutit,buthehaddecidedtotellthefewpeoplehefelthecouldtrust.

WalterSayre,Bruce’sson,rememberedthatheandhisfatherhadnodoubtaboutthetruthofthepreacher’sstory;hesaidtheywereinaweofwhatBrownwassaying.

Walterremindedme(Scott)inaJuly2010,thattheincidentwassoindelibleinhisthen-youngmindbecauseitwasthefirsttimehehadseenagrownmancry.Walt’sfather,deaconofthechurch,wasnextincommandtothepreacherandtheonlyoneBrownsaidhewantedtoconfideinthatevening.

TheSolonLemleyBrownstorywasfirsttoldtous(SuzanneandScott)byWaltSayreinaphonecallandsubsequentconfirmationbye-mailin2004.I(Scott)spokewithWaltonseveraloccasions.Hewasaboyin1948,andhewaswithhisfatherattheconfidentialmeetingBrownhadwithhisfatherafterthe

Page 116: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

preacher’sreturnfromAztecthatMarchevening.Walttoldhisstoryinagenuineandcrediblemanner.HewasaFrontierAirlinesexecutive,having

spenthisentirecareerwithFrontier,beginningattheFarmingtonairport,theninColoradoSprings,andfinallyatKalispell,Montana,whereheeventuallyretired.Waltexplainedtous(SuzanneandScott)thathewasabout11whenheattendedthatpowerfulmeetingBrowncalledtheeveningofthepreacher’sreturnfromAztec.

Walttoldme(Scott)thatthepreacher’sstorystuckwithhimallofhislife,butitwasonlywhenreadinganarticleaboutourresearchontheAztecIncidentthathefeltthestoryneededtobetoldandthatweshouldresearchhisstory,aswehavedonewitheveryotherlead.WhenWaltgaveus(SuzanneandScott)hiscontactinformation,thestorywentontotheresearchlist.Sadly,Waltpassedin2015andwillbemissedbymany,includingus.

In2005we(SuzanneandScott)decidedthatafewdaysinMancoswereneeded,sowepackedourbagsandflewouttoabedandbreakfastinMancosandafewdaysofresearch,aswellassomeoftherestandrecreationwebothneeded.

WestartedourquestwiththenewMancospreacher,JimGregory,whohadonlybeenwiththechurchashorttimebutwasextremelyhelpfulwithourresearch.HefirstpulledtherecordstoverifythatSolonLemleyBrownwas,infact,thepreacherwhohelpedre-opentheFirstBaptistChurchinJanuary1948,justasWaltSayrerecollected.

ThenextstepwastoverifythattheSayrefamilywaslivingnearMancosatthetime,whichwaseasilydoneinamatterofminutes,aswefoundtheirmembershipinthechurcharchivescompletewithalltheappropriatefamilynames.AlthoughSolonBrownrentedahouseinAztec,hedideventuallymovetoMancosforaboutayearuntilhemovedontoanotherchurch.InJimGregory’sofficeI(Scott)noticedsomeawardsandplaquesonthewall.Whenaskedwhattheawardswerefor,heexplainedhehadjustgotoutoftheAirForce,havingspentyearsservingourcountry.Weaskedhimifhehadbeenachaplain,andtomysurpriseheanswered,“Well,yes,butIspentmostofmytimeinAirForceIntelligence.”3Atthatpoint,welearnedtoappreciateGregory’ssenseofhumorwhenweaskedhowluckywecouldgethavinganAirForceIntelguyasthenewpreacherwhenwebegansortingthrougholdrecordsconcerningaUFOincident.Allthreeofusgotalaughoutofthat.

Fromthechurch,wewenttotheMancosPublicLibrarytosearchtherecordsforwhatwasgoingonin1948.ThelibrarianwasextremelyhelpfulindirectingustothelocalhistorianonMancosandthesurroundingarea.Weaskedforthelocalnewspaperfrom1948and,bymailwithinafewmonths,wehadcopiesofallappropriateeditionstouseasweresearchedactivitiesfromthattimeframeand,aswell,wefoundapublishedpictureofSolonBrownandhisfamilyinthepaper.Thelocalnewspaperwasaweekly,thenormformostsmalltowns.

OncewehadacopyofthenewspaperforthatMarchweekin1948,weweredrawntoafewparticulararticles.ThefirstconcernedthemovingoflargeandheavyequipmentthroughMancosatnightandaskingresidentsofMancosandthesurroundingareatostayoffandawayfromU.S.Highway160(note:U.S.Highway160runsthroughMancoseasttoU.S.Highway550,whichthengoesdirectlysouthtoAztec)tomakethemovementofthisheavyandlargeequipmenteasierfortheworkers.Thenextarticlethatcaughtourattentionaskedwhetherlocalswouldconsidertakinginboardersforaweekorsoastheconstructionprojectrequiredmoreworkersthanthelocalhotelandmotelindustrycouldaccommodate.

TheMancosProject,asitwascalled,hadreceivedpresidentialapprovalonOctober21,1940,undertheWaterConservationandUtilizationProgramActofAugust11,1939,andconstructionstartedonJuly24,1941.However,mostoftheworkwasdelayedduringWWII,andtheprogramdidnotgetbackuptofullsteamuntilwar’send.ThemajorityofthemajorconstructionwascompletedbyMay1947,withfinalconstructioncompletedbyDecember1948.Wehavenotfoundareasonforheavyequipmentbeingmoved

Page 117: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

inMarch1948,buttheprojectwasalargedamencompassing10,000acre-feetoflandandwaterforthepurposeofirrigationintheagriculturalarea,waterfornearbyMesaVerdeNationalPark,andtheMancosRuralWaterCo.servingthetownofMancositself.

AssumingthatalargelenticularcraftlandedorcrashedonamesaoutsideofAztec,andbecausetheMancosProjectwaspartoftheBureauofReclamation(theUnitedStatesgovernment),largeequipmentspanningthe52.8milestoHartCanyonRoadwouldhavebeenreadilyfacilitated.(SeeChapter10toexplainothermilitaryoptionsthatmayhavebeenavailableatthetime.)

AftervisitingMancosandlearningaboutSolonBrown’sfamily,wewereonthepathtofindthepreacher’ssonwho,asitturnedoutfromaleadattheFirstBaptistChurchinMancos,hadfollowedhisfather’sfootstepsintotheministry.Dr.AutreyBrownwasnotaneasypersontofind.Wespentdayslookingforhimthrougheverysearchengineweknew.

WehadtwoconversationswiththesonofSolonLemleyBrown.Autreyisawonderfulpersonandheisfullofhistory.HehasspenthisentirelifedevotedtotheChurchandhelpingothers,justashisfatherdid.IexplainedthestorytohimaswegotitfromWaltSayreand,tomysurprise,BrownrememberedtheSayrefamilyandtheirson,Walt.

TheyoungerBrowndidnotfollowhisfamilytotheFourCornersarea,ashewasstillinsouthernNewMexicoanddidnotarrivefulltimeinMancosuntil1950,atwhichtimehetookoverthechurchfromhisfather.

BrowninformedmethathehadneverheardhisfathertalkaboutaflyingsaucerintheAztecarea,buthedidconfirmtomethatifhisfatherhadsworntosecrecy,hewouldhavenotsharedsuchinformation.I(Scott)askedifhethoughtthathisfatherwouldsharethatwithBruceSayre,andhesaidhewouldprobablyhaveasheheldtheSayrefamilyinhighregard.Dr.BrowninformedmethathisfatherhadbeenbornonAugust29,1897,anddiedonNovember13,1978,andtheonlytimeheheardhisfathertalkaboutaflyingsaucercrashorrecoverywaswhentheylivedinMilensand,NewMexico.HewonderedifWaltSayreorImighthaveconfusedtwodifferentincidents(RoswellandAztec).

Iaskedwhytherewouldbeanyconnectionbetweenthetwoincidents,andhisresponsewasthattheMilensandChurchwasnotfarfromRoswell,andthathethoughtafeworatleastonechurchmemberhadconfidedtohisfatherastoryabouttherecoveryofadownedflyingsaucer.ThiswouldhavebeenbeforethemovetoMancosearlyin1948.TheyoungerBrownstronglysuggestedthatthesetwostoriescouldberunningtogethersomehow.HewasnotskepticalabouttherealityofRoswell,havingadmittedthatsincehearingaboutRoswellfromhisfather,hehadvisitedtheInternationalUFOMuseuminRoswellatleastonce.

AutreyBrown,now92,wentontosaythathisfatherhadbeenassignedtotheBaptistChurchinHatch,NewMexico,inthemiddle1940sandthenontoMilensand,whereheremaineduntillate1947,whenhewenttotheCortezChurch.Fromthere,hisfather,alongwithMrs.McClain,helped“teartheboardsoffthewindowsanddoors”oftheMancosBaptistChurchsoMrs.McClaincouldre-opentheBibleschoolthatledtoestablishmentofafullchurchwithweeklyservicesin1948.

SolonBrown’ssondidnothaveaproblemwithourAztecresearch,andhewasmostopentoit,havingheardthestorieshisfathertoldaboutRoswell.HedidcautionusthathisfatherwasneverlistedasthepreacherofrecordinMancos,butratherwasthe“associationmissionary”tothechurch,astherewasnobudgetforafull-timepreacheratthattime.

Thereweremanypart-timepreacherswhocamethroughMancosduringthattime,Brownrecalled.Hesaidhecouldnot,athisage,rememberhowmany,buthisfatherwas“bouncingbackandforthfromCorteztoMancoslikeabouncingballbackthen.”HedidsaythathisfathertookturnswithvisitingpreachersandthatBruceSayrefromtimetotimewouldholdtheserviceatMancos.Heexplainedthathe(Autrey)wasthefirstfulltimepreacherinMancosaftertheChurchhadbeenupandrunningforabouta

Page 118: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

year,andhestayeduntil1952,whenhewasaskedtogobacktoseminaryschoolandfinishhisschooling,throughwhichheearnedhisdoctorateintheology.

Dr.BrownconfirmedthathismotherandfatherhadlivedinornearAztecin1948duringthere-openingoftheMancosChurch,andthathisfatherwastravelingtheentireFourCornersareaasfarawayasGallupandintoColorado.HisfatheralsohadanapartmentorlivedwithfriendsduringhisstayinCortezbeforeestablishingresidenceinMancos.

ItwasextremelyhelpfultoenlistAutreyBrown’shelpinputtingtogetheratimelinefortheMancosBaptistChurch,buthiscommentsontheRoswellconnectionledustothinkthathisfathermayhavehadinformationonbothRoswellandAztec.Still,itcouldallhavebeenmixedupasonememory.

WeclosewiththisfinalthoughtontheMancosconnection:Dr.AutreyBrownsaidduringtwointerviewsthatifBruceSayre,thedeaconoftheMancoschurch,andSayre’sson,Walt,heardSolonLemleyBrowntellthemaboutencounteringadownedflyingdiscnearAztec,thenthestorywastobetakenasfact.AutreyBrownaffirmedthatheknewfromexperiencethattheSayreswerehonest,sincerepeople,andheknewhisfatherhadalwaysexpressedrespectfortheSayrefamily.IftheelderBrownhadbrokendowninfrontofthemwhilebroachingoneofthemostimportantstoriesheevertold,theirmemoriescouldbetrusted.ThereadercanonlyimaginetheimpactofthateveningrevelationofMarch25,1948,asSolonBrowntoldtheSayresaboutwhatFrankScullywouldlatercall,inhisbook,thegreateststorysinceGalileosaid,“Itmoves.”

Page 119: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

12

AlphabetSoup:GeorgeKoehlerandtheAirForceBoys

U.S.governmentinvestigatorsdon’twastemuchtimeonnon-events,obvioushoaxes,orpracticaljokes,butitisnowcertainthatthefirestormsurroundingFrankScully’sBehindtheFlyingSaucerswasthesubjectofintenseinvestigationbytheAirForceOfficeofSpecialInvestigations(AFOSI),theU.S.ArmyCounterIntelligenceDivision(CID),theCentralIntelligenceAgency,andtheFederalBureauofInvestigation.

AbreakthroughintheAzteccasecamein2010whenwefoundtheactualtapedinterviewbetweenDenverradioadsalesmanGeorgeKoehlerandtwoAFOSIagentsin1950,atapedinterviewsupposedlyerasedatthetime.OurtranscriptionofthisinterviewrevealshowseriouslythegovernmentviewedtheAztecstoryandtheDenverlecturerwholetthecatoutofthebag.

DidtheAztecincidentattractinvestigators’attentionpriortoScully’sbook?Afterall,ifabest-sellersuchasScully’sdrewtheattentionoftheAmericanpublicin1950,thepotentialthreattonationalsecuritywouldnaturallybethetargetoftheAirForce,theFBI,possiblytheCIA,andArmyCID.WithAmericafullyengagedintheColdWaragainsttheSovietUnionandinternationalcommunism,anythingthatcouldaffectsecuritywouldattractofficialscrutiny.

AsrevealedinChapter5,writerJ.P.CahnapparentlywasoneofthefirsttocontactJ.EdgarHoover,asdidHollywoodactorBruceCabot,tosuggestthatScully’ssourcesfortheflyingsaucerbookshouldbeinvestigatedforcriminalactivity.AmoreimportantquestionwaswhethertheFBIwasalreadyonthetrailoftheAztecincident,asreleaseddocumentsshowsuchawareness.WeknowtheFBIhadafileonSilasNewtonfromtheearly1930sshowinghimtohaveanoutstandingcharacterandtobeapatriotofthefirstorder,accordingtotheFBI’sownreports.

ItwasnotuntilScully’sbookcameoutthatSilasNewtonbecameapersonofinterestandapparentlyplacedunderthemicroscopeoftheFBI,partlyasaresultofCahn’srelentlesscrusadetoruinScullyandhissources.TheFBIisstillwithholdingmorethan211pagesconcerningSilasNewton,whosestoryiscoveredinChapter6.

TheCIAcertainlyhadaninterestintheAzteccaseaswell,butitsfilesaremoredifficulttoget,andourrequestswereoftendenied.However,whatwasdiscoveredistantalizingandpresentedinthischapter.

TheU.S.ArmyCIDshowedstronginterestinAztecandwentasfarastoworkwiththeFBItosetupanelaboratestingoperationinordertoretrieve“picturesoftheflyingsaucer”—theirwords,notours.1

MysteriousgreenfireballsswoopeddownoverNewMexicointheearlytomid-1940s,andtheAirForcealreadyhadakeeninterestinwhatwasflyingwithimpunityoveritsmostsensitiveinstallations.Dr.LincolnLaPaz,oftheUniversityofNewMexico’sdepartmentofmeteoritics,wasreadytodropeverythingatamoment’snoticetoinvestigatethesesightingsandtoreportbacktotheAirForceaswellastheAtomicEnergyCommission(AEC).AnythingflyingovertheKirtlandAirForceBase,SandiaNationalLaboratory,LosAlamos,WalkerAirForceBase,andWhiteSandsProvingGround(laterWhiteSandsMissileRange)wasapotentialthreattonationalsecurity.

AfterreadingseveralAirForcereports,I(Scott)believeLaPazwasgiventwomissions:Thefirstwastoinvestigatethegreenfireballsanddiscoverwhattheywere;thesecondwastoexplainawaythe

Page 120: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

sightingsasmeteorsinanypublicpronouncements.This,again,showsthecomplexityofhowgovernmentagenciesoperatedandsoughttomaintainafirewallofsecrecybetweenthemselvesandthepublic.

Inhisbook,ScullytoldthestoryofaDenverradiostationsalesmanandformerChicagoBearsfootballplayerbythenameofGeorgeKoehlerwhoactuallywasthegetawaydriverwhowhiskedSilasNewtonfromtheUniversityofDenverclassroomattheendofthefamouslectureonMarch8,1950.

KoehlerwasintheloopwithNewton,andpossiblyoneoftheDr.Gees,andtheirknowledgeoftherealityoftheAzteccrash;however,theradiosalesmanhadnofirsthandknowledgeoftheeventotherthanwhathehadbeentoldbyNewtonandthescientist(s).AsScullystatesinhisbook,“Noonewouldbelievehim,leastofallAirForceIntelligence,whosemembersactedasiftheywerequitesureKoehlerhadapipelineintotheverycabinofaflyingsaucerwhichwasreportedbysometohavelandedsomewhereintheGreatAmericanDesert,andwasfurtherreportedbyotherstohavebeendismantledbytheverysouvenir-huntingmilitaryofwhichAirForceIntelligencewasanintegralpart.”2

KoehlerhadbefriendedNewtonyearsearlierandhaddrivenNewtontotheUniversityofDenverthedayofthelecture,thenescortedNewtonoutofthelecturehallandintohiscarthatspedbacktothehotel.WhatisnotgenerallyknownisthatNewtonwasenlistedtospeaktothestanding-room-onlycrowdinplaceofoneofGeorgeKoehler’sothercontacts,whowasoriginallygoingtospeakthatdaybutdeclinedwhenherealizedthathewouldbepossiblyrecognized.Thatmadeitnecessarytobringinthesubstitutespeaker.

TheverydayafterNewton’slecture,theAirForceOfficeofSpecialInvestigationsshowedupatDenverKMYRradiostationtoseeKoehlerbutfoundthathewasconveniently“out”seeinganadvertisingcustomer.Ofcourse,AFOSIwantedtofindthemysterylecturer,butnobodywassureofthelecturer’snameuntilmuchlater.Koehler,suspectingthatOSImightreturnthefollowingday,hadthestationengineermakepreparationstorecordtheconversation.Thenextday,AFOSISpecialAgentsHansonandUngerdidreturntothestation,andtheyinterrogatedKoehlerforaboutanhour.

Koehlercarefullyledthetwomenintoasoundproofstudio“intheinterestofprivacy,”sotheycouldtalkwithoutbeingdisturbed.Afteraboutanhour,Koehlerescortedtheagentsout,andoneofthemsaidtoKoehler,“Weknowyouhavebeenrecordingtheseinterviews.Nowhandthem[therecordings]over.”Appearingstunnedattheaccusation,Koehlerquicklyremindedthementhathe(Koehler)wouldhavetoconsultwiththestationowner,asthetapeswere“companyproperty,andnotpartoftheU.S.Government.”3

Thestationownerwasfound,andhesaidthat,byallmeans,thespoolswouldbehandedovertothemilitary.Koehlerthenwentintotheengineer’sboothandwinkedattheengineer,tellinghimto“fixuptherecordingsforthegentlemen,”andfixthemuptheydid!Inrewindingthemagneticwirespools,theengineerdemagnetizedthem,destroyingallrecordedconversationsas“ifawetspongehasbeenrubbedoverachalkmarkonablackboard,”toquoteScully.4

Foryears,thispartofScully’sbookwasattackedasthoughthiserasureprovedahoaxofsomesort.WhywouldFrankScullyputthisintohisbookifthewirerecordingswereactuallydestroyed?

EvenMajorDonaldKeyhoe(Ret.),whohimselfwastryingto“flushout”theflyingsaucermystery,wasbeingflownfromWashington,DCtoDenverin1950byTrueMagazinepublisherKenW.PurdytogettheinsidestoryfromKoehler.Keyhoeexplainedinhis1950paperback,TheFlyingSaucersAreReal,thathewasnotimpressedbyKoehler’sclaimsabouttheAFOSI,asnotapesorwirereelsexisted.KeyhoewascompetingwithScullyatthattime,andKeyhoewrotethathethoughtScullyhadbeentakeninbythe“littlemen”story.HewrotethatKoehler’sattitudepersuadedhimthatthewholethingwas“abigjoke.”5HeevenaskedKoehlertoshowhimartifactsmentionedinScully’sbook,butKoehlerplayedcoy.ItisunlikelythatKoehlereverhadanyartifactsinhispossession.

KeyhoeleftDenverforMontanatosearchoutanotherflyingsaucerlead,andheleftKoehlerinthe

Page 121: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

dust,asanyotherresearcherwouldhavedone.Ashewrote,theentirestoryofarecoveredsaucerseemedtohavemajorflaws.HenryHoltandCo.deniedScullytheopportunitytowriteasequeltohisbest-sellingbook,thoughHoltwentontopublishKeyhoe’sFlyingSaucersFromOuterSpacein1953andTheFlyingSaucerConspiracyin1955.Keyhoepublishedstrongevidencefortherealityofflyingsaucers,buthispositioninregardtoScullyneverchanged.HebelievedthatScullyhadbeenduped,andtwogenerationsofUFOresearchersunfortunatelytookthatpositionasgospel.

Afterwehadinvesteddecadesofresearch,wegotsomehelpfromGrantCameron,awell-knownCanadianresearcher.WeaskedCameronifhehadeverdoneanyresearchintoScully’ssourcedocumentsandothermaterialsbeyondwhathepublished.CameronsaidthattheUniversityofWyomingatLaramiehadmostoftheScullyfiles,asdonatedbyAliceScully.Withthisinformationgiventous,Dr.FrankThayer,MikePrice,Suzanne,andI(Scott)decidedtolookintowhatScullyhadleftbehind.

ThisresearchquestionledtothediscoveryofatroveofFrankScullydocumentsandrecordingsthatfurtherservetovindicateScullyandhisexplosiveclaimsabouttheAztecrecovery.Noneofthisarchivalmaterialhasbeenrevealedbyanyothersource.

WhatyouareabouttoreadisthetranscriptionoftheactualconversationwithGeorgeKoehlerand“TheAirForceBoys”asdiscoveredinFrankScully’ssecretfiles.KeepinmindthatScullywasnofool:Hehadacopyoftherecordingsallalong,includingNewton’sUniversityofDenverlecture.WhydidhenotsharetheseatthetimehewasbeingattackedbyJ.P.Cahnandtheflyingsaucerresearchcommunity?Wewillneverknow,butitiscertainthattheAirForcewashotonScully’strail.LettersbetweenScullyandHenryHolt&Co.showthatthepublisherofScully’ssuccessfulbookwasgettingnervousfromwhatthepublisherdescribedasthe“heat”fromtheAirForce,andthatScullydecidedto“sitonthetapes”untilthethingscooleddown.6ItwasapparentthatGeorgeKoehlerwassmarterthanmost,becauseheandtheengineerhadmadeaduplicatecopyoftheAFOSIinterviewforScully,anditstillexistsforustoenjoysixdecadeslater.

ThereaderwillnowreadwhathappensinaninterviewwithagentsfromtheOfficeofSpecialInvestigations.KisGeorgeKoehler,G-1isSpecialAgentHanson,andG-2isSpecialAgentUnger.7

K: NowwhatcanItellya….G-1: Well—K: Firstofall,areyou,ah,which—G-1: I’mHansonandthis…isMr.Unger.G-2: MynameisUnger—K: Unger.G-2: Umhum.K: Gladtoknowya.G-2: Yeah.G-1: We’rewiththeAirForceOfficeofSpecialInvestigations.I’mthemanyouweretalkin’to

yesterday.K: God[d]amn,that’simpressive,isn’tit?OfficeofSpecialInvestigations.Thatscaredme.

Scaredmetodeath.G-1: Well,wedon’twanttoscareyou.That’stheleastofourdesires.G-1: ButI’lltellyouwhatwe’reherefor;we,ah,talkedwithMr.MurphyouttheFordMotor

Page 122: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Company.K: Umhum.G-1: Hesaidthatyouhadsomeinformation/gadgetswhichyousaidrelatedtotheflyingsaucers,

andtheflyingdiscs.Couldyoutellussomethingaboutthat?K: Well,asfarasgadgets.Idon’thaveathingtoworryabout…Imean,thatevenpertaintothem.

Ah,nothankyou,Idon’tsmoke.Ah,asfarastheflyingsaucers,whatareyouonthisflyingsaucerstoryareyou?Isthatthe—

G-1: Well,youprobablyknowtheAirForce—K: Deniedit.G-1: …investigatesallreportsofthosetypes.K: Umhum.G1: You’veprobablyreadthepublicitythat’sbeenputoutinconnectionwithitand,um,whenever

wehearofsomethinglikethis,well,wetrackittoitssourceandseewhatandhowauthenticitis,ifatall.

K: Tellme,howlonghaveyoubeenonthisparticularinvestigation?G-1: Well,wehaven’tgiventhisthingmuchthoughtuntiljustrecently.G-1: WefindthatMr.MurphygotitthroughamanbythenameofDavis[Hanson’spronunciation]

fromyou,andweliketoseewhereyougotthisorwhereitoriginatedwithyou.K: Well,no,itdidnotoriginatewithme.However,ah,thesourcethatIgetitat,Ican’ttellyou.

ThoughIwouldliketothespotwhereIgetitisaveryconfidentialspot.IbelievethatIamresponsiblehoweverfor,ah,Murphyhearingaboutit.

G-1: Well,weknowthat.K: Throughthisdeal—whatdidyousayhisnamewas?Davies[Koehler’spronunciation]?G-1: Umhum.K: That’spossiblethathecouldoftoldhim[.]Idon’tknow.G-1: Well,weknowthatyoutoldMr.Murphyinthepresenceofothers.Wedidn’tspeakdirectlyto

him,but,ah,yourelatedyourinformationinthepresenceofaboutfiveorsixpeopleconnectedwiththeFordMotorCompany.

K: Umhum.ActuallyitwasaboutfourIbelieve,but,um,DavieswasoneofthemandMurphyanother.

G-1: Well,Ithinkthatthereisonemanfromoutherealongwithyouonthatparticulartrip.Isn’tthatright?Wedon’tknowwhoitwas,but,ah,thewayMr.Murphytoldus,afriendofyoursoranothermanfromKMYRwasouttherewithyouatthetime.

K: Itellya,Idon’tremember.Yes,yes,that’sright.TherewasafellabythenameofHoldenBoller,yeah.Hewasanewmanstartinghere,thatItookout.Howfaralonghaveyougonewithyourinvestigationotherthanjustcontactingthesefewpeople?

G-1: Wellwehaveofficesalloverthecountry.K: Isee.Whatdoyouthinkoftheflyingsaucersstory?Asfarasyou’vegottenintoit?G-1: Well,I’lltellya,we’reoverheretofindoutwhatyouknowaboutit.

Page 123: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

K: Isee.Inotherwordsyou’renotdivulginganyinformation.

G-1: That’sright.No,we’renot.K: Well,I’lltellyouwhatwastoldtome,franklyandhonestly,wastoldinthestrictestof

confidence.NowIdon’tbelievethatIhaveviolatedthatconfidenceinanyway.ForthesimplereasonIhavenevermentionedanynames,orwhereIhavegottheinformationthatIgot.

G-1: Youhavementionednames.K: Oh,haveI?G-1: Thestorywegot,now—likeIsay,wegotitthirdhand,andnowwe’recomingtoyoubecause

youarethesourceofit.Wewould—K: Well,actuallyI,tomyknowledge,havenevermentionedanynames,see.NordoIintendto,to

anyone.Now,thereasonforthatisthis:Listen,ifyouwereputinmyposition,youwouldfeelthesameidenticalwaythatIdo.Thiswasentrustedtomeasaconfidence.NowIhave—

G-1: Theinformationthatyoupassedontofourorfiveotherpeople?K: Nottheinformation?No,wasnotentrustedtomeasaconfidence.No.G-1: Thenwhatwasthen?K: Itwastoldtomeasastory.However,thenameswhereIgetitfromwereentrustedtomeasa

confidence,see,andIhaveno,nodesireto,ah,jeopardizethatconfidenceinanyway—norwillI.

G-1: Doyoubelievethisstory,that,ah,yourelated?K: 100percent,yeah,um-hum.G-1: Doyoufeelthatyoursourceissoreliablethatthereisnoquestionwhatsoeverastothe

authenticityoftheinformation?K: Ithinkthat’srightG-1: I’dliketomakeourpositioncleartoyou,Mr.Koehler—K: YoucanjustcallmeGeorge.ThereisnoneedforthisMisterstuff;Ipreferitthatway.G-1: Allright,okay,okay,George.See,wehaveajobtodo.Inotherwords,weareemployedby

thegovernment,andwe’reworkingforthegovernmentdiggingoutthese,thesefacts.K: Umhum.G-1: Andthereisareasonforthisall.K: Well,Iimaginetherewouldbeoryouwouldn’tbehere.That’sforsure.G-1: Andwetrackdownthesefacts.K-: Um-hum.G-1: Nowifanyonethathasanyinformation,regardlessofhowslightitmightbe,andwegoout

andget,gather,theselittlebitsofinformation.Nowremembereverythingthatwegooutandget,andotheragentsthroughoutthecountrygoestoonecentralhead,andthereitisevaluatedandpiecedtogether.

K: Umhum.

Page 124: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

G-1: Now,ifthereisanything,atall,toallthisflyingsaucer—K: Youknow,Iwishtoheavenyouwouldhavecomeinyesterday,andImeanthisseriously.G-1: Well,ItriedtoandI—K: AndhereisthereasonIwishyouwouldhavecomeinyesterday.Amanbythenameof

Keyhoecamedowntotalktome.Haveyoueverheardofhim?G-1: Keyhoe?K: DonaldKeyhoe.G-1: No,Idon’t,that’sah—K: Hewroteavery,veryfascinatingarticleinTrueMagazine.G-1: Ireadthat.K: Andhe[Keyhoe]istheauthorofit.Intalkingtome,hesaidthat[he]heardthroughsomeone,

whoheardfromsomebodyelse,thatheardfromsomebodyelse,thatheardfromsomebodyelse,thatIknewsomethingaboutit.AndItoldhimjustexactlywhatI’vetoldyou.ThatIknowabsolutelynothingunderthesunaboutwhathewastalkingabout.See,butthenhewentintothelongdetailofhisarticleandalltheinformationthathehadgathered,andofcoursetheAirForcedenialofthething.AndthenheaskedmeifIhadeverseenthisnewarticleinVariety.

G-1: “Scully’sScrapbook,”thelatestissue,yes.K: SoIwentoutandboughtthatthing,thatthing,Iwentouttogetityesterday,andI,andIbelieve

it’supthere.Haveyouboysreadit?G-1: Iknowaboutthearticle,andIhaven’treaditjustyet.K: Wellit,ah,itisanextremelygoodarticle.Inotherwords,itasksyoufellas20questionsof

theAirForce,andIbelieveit,ah,justwaitingforanotherdenial.That’swhatitamountsto.Butthefactsthatheincludesinthisthingareactuallystartling.ThatiswhyoneofthereasonsIwishedyouwerehere[was]becauseKeyhoewasuphereatthetime,andhewasjusttryingtoexplainafewofthemtome,see.Anditwasvery,veryenlighteningconversationwiththeman.And,infact,hehadjustleftwhenyouboyshadcomeuphereandthenwhenIcalledbackand,um,IwasoutoftheofficeandItriedtogethimagain,buthewentto,um,Montana,ah,Butte,Montana,orsomewhere,Ibelieve,and,ah,Iwasgoingtotrytogethim,andIthoughtwewouldall,ah,haveatalklikethatyesterday,see.

G-1: Umhum.K: Butthenthisfellajustcalledmeafewsecondsago,justaskedmethesamequestionsthatyou

haveaskedmenow.Idon’teven,Ican’trememberhisname,buthewaswiththeKansasCityStar.HisnamewasChampLewis,orsomethinglikethat.

G-1: Ya,right.TheStarcarriedthestoryjustasyoutoldit.Itsohappens,I’llgiveyouthisinformationtogiveyoualittlebackground.Atthetimethatyourelatedyourstory—attheFordMotorCompanyandthenouttotheairportandsoon—youprobablyrememberthatandyouhaddinnerand—

K: Notattheairport,no—G-1: Youdidn’tgoasfarastheairport,well—

Page 125: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

K-I: Idon’tknowanything[sic]aboutthis.RudyThicke,Iunderstand,wasinfromoutoftown.G-1: That’sright,hecarriedthestorybacktoKansasCity.K: RudyThickegotthestory,allofthestory,fromMurphy,didn’the?G-1: No,hewaspresentthatday.K: Imean,wejusttalkedaboutbitsofitatlunch,see,justverysmallbitsofit.Infact,hehad

about18minutestomaketheplaneandhavelunch,soyoufigureouthowmuchconversationwehad.

G-1: Well,that’sright.K: ButhesaidMurphy,whenIwalkedinthere,thatIhadMurphyalongwiththemeeting,and

theywerediscussingthisthing,andIsaid,Oh,isthatso?[A]ndwepickedupthelittlebitsofitaswewentalong,andthatwasallthattranspired.AndwehadlunchoutattheParkHillorsomethinglikethatGolfClub,yah,andthentheboysleftandIwasnotwiththem.Ihadthisnewman[Boller]withme,andItookhimoutto,oh,afewaccountsthatwehave.

G-1: Didthissourceofyours,foryourinformation,evergiveyouanypartsofthisparticularthing?K: No.Huhuh.No.G-1: WhataboutthegadgetsthatyouhadoverattheFordPlace?Wasthat,whatisthat?Ajokeor

pullingsomebody’slegorsomething?K: Gadgets?GadgetsthatIhadattheFordPlace?G-1: Yah.K: Well,I’dhavetodenythatIeverhadany.G-1: Well,look,George,ah,wedon’tcareifyouwere,ah,ifyouwerehavingalotoffunwiththis

thingornot—K: No!No!G-1: Iwishyouwouldtellus.K: Frankly,it’spastthefun.ThisGoddamnthinghasdonenothingbuttakenupawholelotofmy

time—now,Ihavemoretimethanmostpeople,ordinarymen,have,butthat’sbesidethepoint.G-2: Umhum.K: Imean,Ijustcan’tgorunnin’offalloverthecountrytomeetwiththeseguysandtalkabout

thisthing.Inotherwords,I’vegotajobtodohere,andalotmoreimportantthingstodo.Andeverybodywantsastory,andeverybodywantsinformation,andsoon.NowIwastold,see,Mondayofthisweek,thatIknowabsolutelynothing.NowbelievemewhenIsaythatI’mnottryingtobefacetiousornastytoyou;I’mnotthatkindoffella.

G-1: Yousayyouweretoldthatyouknownothing?K: Yeah,yeah,that’sright.Idon’tknowathing.G-1: Whotoldyouthat?K: Thesamesource.G-1: Oh,yoursource.K: Idon’tknow.Shouldwerefertohimas“thesource”or“theboys,”itdoesn’tmakeany

Page 126: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

differencetome,butthatistheonlywaythatIeverreferredtothem.Now,asfarasgivingnames,thatIhaveneverdone.

G-1: Well,haveyouever—accordingtothestorythatwegetit,thatyouhaveclaimedtohaveseenthesethings.

K: Oh,heavens,oh,no,no,no.Ihaveneverseenthem.Wouldn’tknowwhatthehelltheylookedlikeifIdidseeone.

G-1: Well,youprobablyknowthatwhenastorygetshandeddownfrompersontoperson,itisalteredandaddedto,andsubtractedfrom,andeverythingelse.

K: I’vegivenwhatfewfactsthatIhaveheardmyself!See,nowasfarasmeeverseeingone,no,Ihaveneverseenone.However,wehaveaboyworkingherewhohasseenthemintheair,heclaims.

G-1: Well,therearelotsofpeoplealloverthecountryclaimthat.K: Umhum.G-1: Infactwegotapicturethatamantookyesterdaywhichheclaimsisone.K: ThereisamovieinNewYorkplayingattheRialtoTheatre,Iunderstand,thatopenedMonday

that’scalledtheFlyingSaucerThing.Asitgoesthroughthestory,whyitshowsalittledotinthesky,andtheysaythat’stheflyingsaucer.

G-1: Umhum.K: It’sputoutbyMGMorsomething,butit’s,ah,tomyknowledge,it’sjustalot,ah—G-1: Allright,howabout,ah,anyofthesequestionsthatIasked.Youknowyouarefree,um,you

know,totellmeyoudon’tcaretoanswer.Yoursource—isthesourceconnectedwiththegovernmentinanywayorisitaprivateparty?

K: FranklyI’mnotfreetoanswerthatquestion.G-1: Allright,thereasonIamgettingatthatis,anyinformationpertainingflyingsaucerscertainly

hasnobusinessbeinginthehandsoftheprivateindividual.Doyouthinkthat’sright?K: I—G-1: Doyouthinkanyonepersonshoulddecidewhetherheshouldretainsuchinformationorthatit

shouldbeturnedovertotheproperauthorities?K: Ibelievethatthegovernmentistheonlyonethatshouldhaveanyanswerstothisstory,andI

believethatthegovernmentismakingahugemistakeinnotgivingthetruefactsabouttheGoddamnthingastheyknowit.

G-1: Right.K: AndI’lltellyouwhyIfeelthatway.Imightbealittlebitdifferentthaneverybodyelse,I

don’tknow,butyouknowthiswonderfulcountryofours,theUnitedStates,hastakenthisso-calledAtomicAgewithoutanyhysteriawhatsoever.

G-1: Umhum.K: AndifthereisanInterplanetaryAge,asallthesemagazinearticles,newspaperarticles,and

supposedlythesetruefactarticles—ifitisright,Ithinkthattheyaregoingtotakeitinthesamecalmnessthatthey’vetakentheAtomicAge.

G-1: Probablyso.

Page 127: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

K: Ihonestlybelieveit.NowI’lltellyouthisthingfascinatesme,thisfascinatesme,becauseIwannaknowmoreaboutitcontinually,andIthinkeveryoneintheUnitedStatesfeelsthesameGoddamnwayaboutit.AndIdon’tknowwhytheyshouldn’t.Nowwhythehellwon’tthegovernmentreleasethisinformation?Don’tyoufeel—Imean,you’reanormal,intelligenthumanbeing.Howwouldyoutakethisthing?

G-1: Well,George,Itellyanow,thisstorythat—areyouawarethatthisstorywasprintedintheKansasCity[p]aper?

K: No,huhuh.G-1: Well,now,that’ssomuchvalue,yousee.Certainlythegovernmentwon’treleasevalueas—K: Whythey’dbedamnfoolsto—G-1: That’sright.K: That’sright.Buttheycertainlyshouldreleasesomefactsofthething.Don’tyoubelieve?G-1: Well,atthisstage,areleasehasbeenmade,andallclaimstosightingsofthesesaucersandso

on[have]allbeenexplainedinsomemanneroranother.K: It’sallbeenexplained,butifyou’llpardonme,ithasn’tbeenexplainedtomysatisfaction.I

meantheonlyarticlethatIhaveeverreadcameovertheUPandAPWireherewheretheAirForce,wherenoparticularman,see,deniestheentirestory,see.Theyclaimthat—ha!—theyjustdon’texist.Peoplearehavinghallucinations.Wellnow,peoplejustdon’thavehallucinations—notthismanypeople.

G-1: They’renotallexplainedashallucinations.It’sonapercentagebasis.K: That’sright.Someofthemareclaimedtheyaremeteoritesandsoon.G-1: Andsoon,yeah.K: That’swhatyouclaim.K: However,intheentirearticleof,ah,yourdenial,itdoesn’tgiveanyparticularman’snameas

todenyingthisentirething.See,Iwonderwhy.G-1: Allright,ah,letmeputitthiswaytoya.Wehavefeltthatitwasimportantenoughtotalkto

youtoseewhatinformationyouhad.Somethinghasledustoyou—anallegationthatyouhadinformation.Allright,nowyou,ah,don’twanttogiveusyoursource.Nowthegovernmentcouldcertainly—

K: Itisn’taquestionofgivingyouthesource.Whatwouldyoudoinmyposition?Whatwouldyoudoinmyposition,mayIaskyou?

G-1: Umhuh.K: Wouldyoubetraythatconfidence?G-1: I’dbebiasedifIgaveyouanopinionhere.I’dprobablysay,well,I’dgiveyouthesource.K: Youwouldsaywhat?Ididn’thearyou.G-1: IwouldsaythatIwouldrevealmysourceandletthepeoplewhoareinvolvedinthis

businesstrackitalldown.Now,ah,letmetellyouwhatthenextstepwouldbe.Ifyoutellusyoursource,someonewouldcontactthesourceandgetthemeatoftheinformationthatyoursourcehas.

Page 128: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

K: Youmeantotellme—

G-1: Ifnotthatsource,itwouldgotothenextone.See?Youtrackitdowntoitslastfinalpoint,toitsorigin.

K: YoumeantheAirForceknowsnothingoftheseshipsnow?G-1: Oh,theAirForcegetsreportsfromalloverthecountryonallmatterspertainingtothis.K: Umhum.G-1: Andithastrackeditdowninoneformoranother.K: Umhum.G-1: Rightnow,thefullinformation,Iwon’tevensaythatIknowitall.K: Umhum.G-1: Theydon’tnotifymefromWashingtonwiththelateststories.K: Ididn’timaginetheywould.G-1: I’mjustalittleguythat’sdiggingoutanotherstory.K: Well,Ithoughtthatwouldgiveyoua—G-1: Oh,sure.K: Ithoughtthattheywouldgiveyoualittlesomething,oh,shallwesay,athumbnailsketchofthe

entirething—asyouknowittobenow.G-1: We’rekeptabreastofthesituationgenerally,butnotindetail.That’s,uh,certainlytrue.K: Well,doyoubelieveityourself?JustbetweenyouandI,itdon’tmakeadamnbitof

differenceifwhetheryoutellme.BecauseifItellyou,ifItellsomebodythatsomeoftheAirForceboysarehere,andtheytellmetheybelieveit,therewouldbejustanotherstory.Itwouldjustbeanotherstory.

G-1: Well,that’sit.Idon’twantthattohappen,soIprefernottocommentonthat.K: Isee.Well,franklyIdobelieveit100percent.G-1: Umhum.K: AndasIsaythatIbelievethateveryAmericanintheUnitedStateswouldtakeitcalmly

withoutanygreatreaction.Andthere’snoreasonintheworldwhy.G-1: Okay,how’boutsettingmestraightonthisnow.FredUngerandmyselfwereovertalkingto

Murphyyesterday,andIdon’twanttosaythatMr.Murphywashandingmealine,andIwanttobelievewhatyoutellme—

K: Umhum.G-1: AndIwannatellyouthatIamledtobelievethatyouhadsomegearsandacoupleoflittle

chunksofmetalinyourpossessioninthetimeyouwereoverthere.Nowisthattrue,oruntrue,orwhat?

K: Well,let’ssaythatIjustrefusetocommentonthatparticularquestionrightnow.G-1: Okay.K: Idonothavethegears!

Page 129: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

G-2: Youdon’thavethem?K: Idonothave.G-1: Well,didhavethem?Allright,let’squithedging.K: Well,asIsaid,Idon’thavethegears…orpiecesofmetal.I’lltellyouwhatsomebodydiddo

—thisistheGoddamndestthingeverheardof,andthiswasjusttheotherday.Thatalettercametome—nothanks,Idon’tsmoke—fromBoulder,Colorado,see—

G-1: Umhum.K: Withtwolittlediscsinit—aluminumdiscs,thatsaid,doesthismetalresemblethatofyours?

See,Idon’tevenknowwhatheistalkingabout.Igottheletterinmycoatpocket.G-1: Inotherwords,somebodyelseknowsthatyouhaveinyourpossessionorbelievesthatyou

hadsome—K: MustthinkthatIhavesomeinformation.G-1: Information,andtheywantedtocomparenoteswithyoutosee—K: Apparentlyso,buttheGoddamnthingwasn’tsigned.Ha!Didn’tsaywhere—justthe

postmark,postscriptonit,said,Boulder,Colorado.G-1: Well—K: Ormaybesomebody’stryingtogivemethestraightpicture.I’lltellyouhaven’treadthis

articlefromFrankScully.G-1: No,no,Ithink—K: Goddamnit,Isuggestyoudo.BecauseIthinkthatithasagreatdealofinformation,andany

man,see,whohasthatmuchinformationaboutthisthing—hemustknowalltheanswers.G-1: Well,George,you’lladmitthatanythingthatsmacksofflyingsaucersisgoingtosell,and

that’ssomethingthatyoucanappealtothepublicwithrightnow.K: Didyouknowthattwomagazineshavebeenaftermetogivetheminformationandthestory,

anddoyouknowwhatIhavetoldbothofthem?Threeofthem,asamatteroffact.AnddoyouknowwhatIhavehadtotellallthreeofthem?I’msorry,Idon’thaveanyinformation.Canyouarrangeameeting;canyouarrangeameetingwherebywecanthisinformation?No,noIcan’t.YetIknowthatonemagazineinparticularhasofferedthousandsandthousandsofdollarsforthisthing,see.Andhaveofferedmethesamething.

G-1: Sure.K: AndIsentthemanawayyesterday.Now,Icanuse$5,000awfulGoddamnwell,butIhadto

sendthesonofabitchaway,see.G-1: That’sprettyrough.K: That’sroughasheck.That’sright.That’sGoddamnrough—G-1: [laughs]K: Course,Ican’tproveanythingIsay,see.Icangivethempossiblyfactsthatinlateryearswill

provetobeexactingfacts,yes.But,whothehellamI?I’mjustGeorgeKoehler,aGoddamntimesalesmanforKYMR,see.

G-1: That’syourposition—youselltime.

Page 130: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

K: That’sright,Iselltimeontheradio.Yeah.G-1: Haveyoubeenwiththeoutfitverylong?

K: Aboutayearandahalf.G-1: Yearandahalf?K: Almosttwoyears.G-1: Prettygoodjob?K: No!G-1: You…doyourownselling.Thatis,youcontactindividualswhoyoufeelmightbesponsors

interestedinpurchasingairtime?K: That’sright.That’smyjob.G-1: Doesitleadyoutomeetalotofinterestingpeople?K: Itdoes.Alotofinterestingpeople.Agreatdealofinterestingpeople.Ienjoythejobawhole

lot,mainlybecauseIguessI’mnaturallylazy.Idon’tknow,Idon’tlikeworkingtoohard;but,frankly,IbelievethatIhavedoneaveryoutstandingjobhere,andIthinkthatanybodywilltellyouthat.Ijustlikeit,andGoddamnit,anythingthatyoulike,youcanexcelat,iswhatI’vefoundout.

G-1: Whatdotheyjudgeyouby?Yoursalesvolume?K: That’sright.G-1: IsthatyourconnectiontoDavisattheFordPlant?K: IsellMorleyB.Daviestime,yeah.G-1: Sohe’stheagentforFord.K: HeistheJ.WalterThompsonrepresentativefortheFordMotorCompanyfortheentireUnited

States.G-1: Oh,Isee.K: Oneoftherepresentatives.Let’sputitthatway.G-1: He’stheWestern.K: That’sright.G-1: Well,Davisapparentlyhasheardanycommentthatyou’vemadeonthissaucerbusinesstoo.K: Iwouldsay—G-1: Haveyoutoldanyothersatall[inaudible]fromtimetotimementionit?K: Davies,Iwouldsay,heardtheentirestory.Now—G-1: Well,thestorywegotwasthatyouhadactuallyseenthesethings.K: Oh,Christno!Hellno!Humum.G-1: Well,ifyouhadseenoneandthenpickedituppassingthestoryon—K: Brother,ifIhadseenone,ifIhadseenone,see—G-1: That’swhywewouldwanttotalktoyou.

Page 131: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

K: Andseentheoccupants?DoyouthinkIwouldhaveletthatfellawalkoutofherewiththat$5,000checktome?

G-2: Youdon’tblameusforcomingtoseeyou,Imean.K: No,I’mgladyoudid.G-2: WhensomeonetellsusthatGeorgeKoehlerhasseenthosedamnthings,andwewanttosee

GeorgeKoehler.K: Andyouwanttoseethem,too.G-1: Well,we’renot,George.We’re[inaudible;KoehlerspeaksoverHanson].K: Ifitwerejustabout,oh,let’ssayamonthago,andyouwantedsomeinformation,sohelpme

Christ,I’dofgivenyouanythingyouwanted.ButIthinkthatyouunderstandmypositionnowandIjustcan’tgiveanyinformation.Infact,whenpeoplecomeuptomeandstarttalkingaboutflyingdiscs,doyouknowwhatItellthem?Ohgeez,don’tbothermewiththatstuffanymore.I’mjustsoGoddamnedsickofit.Ijusthave[no]timeforit.Now,that’sright.IhavepeoplecallingmeuplikethisfellaItalkedto,asyouweresittingthere,fromKansasCity.Andhesaid,“Iunderstandthatyouknowagreatdealaboutthisthing,see—thatyouareanauthorityonit.”Isaid,“That’salotofcrap,fella.I’mnotanauthorityonthis.”AndIsaid,“Idon’tknowanythingaboutit.BecauseI’mjustsick.I’mjustfedupwithitrightnow.Idon’tevenwanttotalkaboutitanymore[sic].”

G-1: Well,Iguessitcouldkindagrowonya.K: Yeah,itcould.Ofcourse,believeme,itisthemostfascinatingsubjectthatIhaveeverfound

orhaveeverbeenabletotalkabout.G-1: Well,George,yaknowit’sthenextstepanyhow.Theworldhasbeenconqueredasfaras

travelthroughouttheworld,soifyouwanttogosomeplace[sic]new,you’vegottagetoutside,don’tya?

K: Ha!Well,there’sstillalotofplacesIhaven’tseeninthisworld.I’dbesatisfiedtoseethem.G-1: Well,Imeanifanindividualhasanencounter.But,mankindingeneral—K: Ohyeah.Well—G-1: Also,transportationcantakeyoutoanypartofitnow,andallthewayarounditprobably

withoutsettingfootonland.Andthenextstepismoveout.K: Well,IbelievethatIreadnotsolongagothatwearemakingplansatthepresenttimetovisit

themooninabout30yearsrighthereintheUnitedStates.G-1: Yeah,Isawanewspaperarticleonthat.K: So,eh,it’spossible.Idon’tknow.Frankly,Iwouldn’twanttobeoneofthefirst.G-1: Well,thesestories,theplansactuallyhavetoprecedeanyactiononit.K: Frankly,IbelieveifIsawoneoftheseflyingdiscs,I’dbethebiggestGoddamncowardofany

ofus!Idon’tthinkI’dgonearthesonofabitchforsheerfright,see.G-1: Well,it’scertainly—K-I: Mean,I’djustlike…Oh,therewasthisboythatwastalkin’tomeyearsandyearsago.Afella

cameintoholdhimup,see.Putthatguninhisface,andthatfellasaid,“Ijusttookapokerightinhismouth.”Isaid,“Isthatright?”[inaudible]And,inabouttwoweekslaterI’mheld

Page 132: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

up,see.Andthatguyheldthatguninfrontofmyface,andthatsonofabitchjustlookedlikeIcouldjustcrawlrightdownthebarrel.Icouldseethebottomof[thebarrel],see.SoIgetbig,toughandstrong.AnddoyouknowwhatIsaidtotheman?EveryGoddamnthinghesaidtome,Isaidonething:Yessir!Yessir!Andwhenthatsonofabitchleft,Ihadcoldsweat,andIshookforabout10minuteslater.Icouldn’teventellthepolicewhathappened,see.Sothisbastardwastellingmeaboutthispokehetooktothisguy.He’salyingsonofabitchformymoney.

G-1: IthinkI’dbeinclinedtodothesamething.Icouldmakemoremoneysomeday[sic],but—K: Sothat’sthesamewaythatIfeelaboutthisflyingdiscthing.I’mnottooanxiousto,ah,it’s

just,ah.Oh,I’dlovetoseeit.I’dlovetoseetheso-calledoccupants.I’dliketoknowhowit’soperated.Iknowapproximatelyhowit’soperated,now.ButI’dlikeallofthethingsinconcreteevidence,rightbeforeme.

G-1: Sittingrightthereinfrontofyou?K: That’sright.ButI’mnottoointerestedto[inaudible]thesonofabitch.G-2: That’swhatwecameheretosee.K: YouthoughtthatIhaditinmypocket,ah.G-2: No,notoneofthemachines,butweunderstandyouhadtwopartsfromit.K: No,Idon’thaveanypartsfromit.G-1: Well,youdon’tblameusforcomingintoseeyouand—K: Notatall,andyouarewelcomeatanytime.

Thenextepisodewiththe“AlphabetSoup”charactersunfoldedinDenveronSeptember30,1950.TheArmyCID(CounterIntelligenceDivision)reportedthata“stingoperation”wasstagedattheEdelweissBarintheMelwynHotelinDenver.Actually,theEdelweissBarwasnextdoortotheMelwynHotel,andthebarwasthesettingwheretheFBIandtheArmyCIDweretryingtointerceptthesaleofphotographsoftheAztecflyingsaucer.ThesellerwasL.D.Mclaughlin,andthebuyerwasMr.ClinefromTheBaltimoreSun.TheFBIandtheCIDfromFifthArmyHeadquartersinDenverparticipatedintheoperation.FollowingareexcerptsfromtheletterfromtheAirForceOSI.8(Seetheimageonpages224–225.)

1.TheFifthArmyRegionalOfficeinDenver,Coloradoreportedthefollowinginformation:On30SeptembertheRegionalOfficereceivedacallfromC.I.D,Denver,saidthatanXXXXX(Redacted),MelwynHotel,Denver,saidthatwhenhewasattheEdelweissBaramannamedXXXXX(Redacted)offeredhim$1,500forthephotographshehadtakenofaflyingsaucerwhichhadcrashednearAztec,NewMexico.XXXXX(Redacted)saidthat“ArmyOfficials”hadattemptedtotakethephotographsofthecrashedsaucerawayfromhimbutthathehadgiventhemanotherrolloffilm.HesaidthatXXXXX(Redacted)insomewayfoundoutaboutthephotographsandofferedhim$1,500forthephotographs.

Page 133: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

AirForcedocumentdescribingtheMelwynHotel“AztecPhotos”sting,October9,1950.

2.“OnOctober2,1950XXXXX(Redacted)wasinterviewedattheFifthArmyRegionalOfficeinDenver.Hethendeniedanyknowledgeoftheflyingsaucerepisode.TheRegionalOfficecommentedthatinspiteofhisdenialshismannerindicatedthathehadsomeknowledgeoftheincidentormayhavetakenpicturesofit.”

Page 134: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

AirForcedocumentdescribingtheMelwynHotel“AztecPhotos.”

So,howdoweknowthatMcLaughlinwasthesellerandthatthebuyerwasCline?Thisistheeasypart,astheletterfromFifthArmytotheAirForceOfficeofSpecialInvestigationdidnotredacttheSubjectlineandtheSynopsissectionoftheletter.

ThelastparagraphclaimsthatMcLaughlinwasintoxicated.ThisisanotherpointinourresearchwheretheArmyismentionedasthebranchinvolvedintherecoveryofaflyingsauceronthemesa.

Nowourinvestigationofthisincidentbegins.Earlyin2009,I(Scott)contactedtheBaltimoreSunTimestoseewhoMr.Clinewas.Thathemightstillbealiveforaninterviewwasthefirstthoughtthatranthroughmymind.IcontactedJoeBurris,awell-knowninvestigativereporterfortheSun.Joehasanexcellentreputationforhisreporting,soIfocusedonhim.IlookeduparticleshehadwrittenandtheexcellentworkhehaddoneinandaroundtheBeltway.HeseemedtofitthebillasaguyIwantedtotalkto.

Joedirectedmetooneofthehumanresourcespeopleatthepaper,andwedidalongandexhaustivesearchforClineoverseveralmonthsinmid-2000.Aftercomingupwithnothing,wedecidedtodoanentirenamecheckwithKline,Klein,Klien,Clein,andeveryvariationwecouldthinkof.Attheendofthelongsearch,wecameupwithonlya“Cline”whoworkedattheBaltimoreSunorBaltimoreSunTimes,inthe“LifeandEntertainment”sectionin1979,andwascertainlynottheClinewewerelookingfromthe1950sera.

WethenlookedintotherecordsforanyonewhoworkedfortheBaltimoreSunorBaltimoreSunTimesinthe1950sandfoundoneformerSunstaffmemberstillaliveandwell,andlivinginMaryland.

HeexplainedthatnoonebythenameofClineworkedatthepaperintheearly1950s.Thenextquestionwas:Didanyoneworkforthepaperthatwouldhavehadanassignmentthatwouldhavetaken

Page 135: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

himtoDenvertobuyflyingsaucerphotographs?Hisreplywas“Noway.WewouldhaveneversentaguytoDenvertoretrievepicturesofaflyingsaucerforthepaper,letalonepaythe$1,500forsuch,eventhoughflyingsaucerswereahottopic,andtheywouldhavemadegreatcopyforthefrontpage.”9

So,whowasthismysteriousClinewhomayhaveout-foxedtheFBI,AFOSI,andArmyCID?Allofthesegroupsdealinintelligence,sohowcouldtheyhavebeenduped?IfCline,regardlessofspelling,didnotworkfortheBaltimoreSunorSunTimes,whomdidheworkfor?Thesimplestexplanationsuggeststhathewasaringersentinbyagovernmentagencytogetthephotos.

ThenextquestionseekstheidentityofL.D.McLaughlin,whosupposedlyhadphotosoftheAztecsaucertosell.

ItwouldseemthatheiscertainlynottheNavyCommanderR.B.McLaughlinwhoworkedatWhiteSandsandcalledhisownpressconferenceconcerningaflyingsaucerincidentatthemissilerangethatwasreportedinmanyothernewsoutletsatthetime.ThatMcLaughlinwaswiththeNavyandsaidhehadobservedaflyingsaucerinterferingwithamissilelaunchatWhiteSandsMissileRange.Soonafterhispublicannouncement,hewasassignedtodestroyerdutyinthePacific.

ItcanbepresumedthatiftheMcLaughlinintheEdelweissBarwereintheNavy,hewouldbereferredtosimplyas“Navypersonnel”insteadofjustL.D.McLaughlin.Itisobvious,too,thattheinitialsarenotthesameasthoseoftheCommander.

Weauthorshavespeculatedandconstructedascenarioforthephotoincident.IfweassumethatL.D.McLaughlinhadphotographsoftheflyingsaucerthatcrashedorlandednearAztec,andthemancalledClinecontactedhimaspartofagovernmentoperation,thenwehaveareasonwhyanArmyCIDreportwasfiledinthefirstplace.BecausetheCIDreportdoesnotincludetheresultsofthemeetingbetweenMcLaughlinandCline,itispossiblethatClinewaswithanothergovernmentagency,notpartoftheeliteCIDorAFOSI.ThiswouldplaceClineinahigheragency.PerhapshehadthecredentialstobullyhiswaypastboththeArmyandtheAirForceoperatives,convincingthemthathewasagenuinereporterfromtheBaltimorenewspaper,andthusnotsubjecttotheirauthority.Thisisspeculation,buttheeventreallyhappened.

WhenClinewalkedintotheEdelweissBar,wecanbesurethatMcLaughlineithersoldhimsomekindofphotographsorbackedofffromthesale.Thereportdoesnotrevealwhathappened,andbothClineandMcLaughlinfadefromthehistoricalrecord.Yet,operationsofthiskindcostmoney,overandabovetheofferof$1,500,andkeepinginmindthattheaveragepriceofanewautomobilein1950was$1,510.

WithoutaBaltimorereporternamedCline,thereisnonewspaperconnection,andbecausewehavenoClineworkingforthepaper,westilldonotknowwhowashidingbehindareporter’scredentials.So,asweclosethisportionofthestory,wemustaskagain:WhodupedtheCIDandAFOSI,andwhathappenedtothosephotographsthatwerevaluedsohighly?WhowasMcLaughlin,andwheredidhegetthephotoswhoseexistencehasbeenrumoredforyears?ItshouldberememberedthatthelateauthorChrisEvansinterviewedScully’swidow,Alice,whopersonallyassuredhimthatblackandwhitephotosoftheAztecsaucerdidexist,assheherselfhadseenthemwhenherhusbandwasalive.10

BillSteinman’sbookUFOCrashatAztecincludesothersupportingdocumentsonAztecincludingthefieldreportsofthemeetingwithKoehler,Hansen,andUnger.OthergovernmentdocumentsincludedinSteinman’sbookmentionaflyingsaucerthatlanded“nearAztec,NewMexico.”11

WerequestedfromtheCID,theFBI,andAFOSI,throughtheFreedomofInformationAct,areleaseofalldocumentsrelatedtotheseknownreports,astheoriginatingdocumentsstartedwiththemandhavetheirletterheads,filenumbers,andsignatures.Allrequestswerereturnedwithaletterfromallagenciesinformingme(Scott)thattheyhadnoknowledgeofthisevent.Ithensentthecopiesofthedeclassifiedletterfortheirreview.AnanswerIgotwasanotherletterstatingthatallrecordsofthattimeperiodhavebeendestroyed.Thisistheclassic50-yearrulethatresearchershearaboutfromtimetotime:Ifa

Page 136: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

documentisolderthan50yearsthegovernment,bylaw,isallowedtodestroysuchadocument,seeminglytomakespaceinthearchivesfornewermaterial.

ThesameexplanationsweregivenintheRoswellcase,butresponsibleresearcherssaythattheimplicationsoftheseflyingsaucerrecoveriesmakeitunlikelythatthedocumentsweredestroyed;however,itdoesmakesensethattheywouldberemovedfrompossiblepublicaccess,regardlessofthecost.

KeepinginmindthatthiscasedrewtheattentionoftheFBI,theArmyCID,andtheAFOSIattheheightoftheColdWar,theflyingsaucerphenomenoncouldhavehadmajorimplicationsfornationalsecurity.Wouldsuchdocumentseverbedestroyedaspartofaroutinepaperpurge?

AskepticmightsuggestthatthephotostingmighthavebeenpartofaconattemptingtocapitalizeonScully’sbest-sellingbook,buttheotherinterestingpartofhistoryisthatScully’sbookwasnewlypublishedthatmonth,butnotyetonbook-sellers’shelveswhenthisstingtookplace.IfthiswerepartofsomecrazymarketingschemebyScully,hewouldsurelyhavemadereferencetoAztecphotosinhisbook,butnosuchreferenceisfoundinthebooktophotographsotherthantheDr.Geecommentsaboutthem.

AtthesametimeastheDenverevents,SilasNewtonandFrankScullywerecommunicatingbyletterexpressingconcernaboutthehealthofDr.Gee.Evenintheircorrespondence,theymaintainthecodefortheseveralscientistslumpedunderthatname.Inthiscase,NewtonwritestoScullythatoneparticularDr.Geeislivinginahotel,andheisconcernedthat“Dr.Geemayhavebloodpoisoning.”12Again,wehavetoruleoutSilasNewtonandDr.GeeashavinganypartinasaleofAztecphotographsunlessDr.Geeexperiencedaremarkablerecovery.ThenwewouldhavetoaskwhythemysteriousDr.GeeorDr.Gees(plural)wouldriskputtingthemselvesinthatposition?

ItshouldbeemphasizedthattheneithertheAztecIncidentnorthephotocaperwasapartofpublicawarenesspriortothereleaseofScully’sbook.ThefamousDenverLecturewithSilasNewtonwasgivenMarch8,1950,and,otherthangovernmentagencies,nobodyknewthedetailsconcerningtheAztecflyingsaucerstory.ThisalonewouldruleoutthepossibilityofanyonereadingScully’sbookandthentryingtomakeafast$1,500throughsomereporterwhodidnotexistinthefirstplace!

TheinvolvementofallthesemajorgovernmentalagenciesatthetimeoftheAztecIncident,andtwoyearslateratthetimejustbeforeScully’sbookwaspublished,revealsapowerfulmysterythathastakenmorethan50yearstouncover.ItwasfirstresurrectedbySteinmanin1986andnowfullyexploredinthisbookthathasbeencloseto30yearsinpreparation.

Page 137: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

13

RecentRevelationsandMysteriousVisits

“Donotethatthegreatertheeducation,themorelikelyapersonistobeabeliever.”—StantonFriedman,20081

ThisbookrevealsnotonlytheincontrovertibleproofoftheflyingsaucerrecoveredonHartCanyonMesainMarch1948,italsoshowsthesuccessfulArmycover-upfollowingthatrecovery.Ofcourse,readersarenotsurprisedbythetacticsoftheU.S.military,asshownina1996CNN/Timepollthatfound80percentsaidtheybelievedthatthegovernmentishidingtheexistenceofextraterrestriallifeforms,anda1997Galluppollthatfoundthat71percentofrespondentssaidtheybelievedtheU.S.governmentknowsmoreaboutUFOsthanithasrevealed.2Thesefindingsshowaseachangefromsimilarpollstaken60yearsagowhenUFObelieverswereinadistinctminority.

Today’sreadersandmediausersneedtoberemindedthatthewillingnesstoacceptflyingsaucerlandings,crashes,andabductionsismorerecentthantheymightthink.The1947RoswellIncidentwasvirtuallyunknownuntilresearcherStantonFriedmanmetformerUSAFintelligenceofficerJesseMarcelinHouma,Louisiana,in1978.Then,afterthe1980bookTheRoswellIncident,therealityofthatworld-changingcrashclosetoCorona,NewMexico,becameacommonlyacceptedbeliefeverywhere.In1947,theRoswellcrashwasaone-daystorythatdiedasquicklyasitwasreleased.Onlythedecadessince1980haveyieldedthefactsofthatevent.

Inthe1950bookinwhichFrankScullyfirstdocumentedtheAztec,NewMexico,saucerresidesaninterestingreview.Scullytookituponhimselftochroniclewhathecalled“ThePost-ForteanFile1947-1950,”referringtothewell-knownbooksofCharlesFort.ScullylistedeventsbeginningwithKennethArnold’sJune1947sightingandcontinuingfor40pagesofflyingsaucersightingsandnewsarticlesaboutflyingdiscsgleanedfromnewspapersoftheperiod.HeevenmentionstheCircleville,Ohio,findofa50-inchobjectcoveredintinfoilthatwasimmediatelyrecognizedasaradartargetfromaballoon.

Scullyalsorecordedhowhisownwritingswerereportedinothermedia.Thoughheattemptedtobeexhaustive,theone-dayRoswellsaucerstorywasnotlistedinhischronology.Wementionthisheretoreinforcethesuccessofthegovernmentinsuppressingsightingsgenerally,andparticularlythenow-provenrecoveriesofcrashedsaucers.

Thisbookpresents“ATimetableofDiscovery”laterinthischaptertoshowhowrecoveredflyingsaucersalmostbecamepartofpublicconsciousnessfrom1947to1950,butthenwereburieddeepforalmost30years.NotonlywasthegovernmentabletosuppressAztec,despitetheincidentbeingreadaboutbymorethan50,000Americanbookbuyers,butthemassiveflyoverofsaucersatFarmington,NewMexico,11milesfromAztec,inMarch1950wasalsokeptawayfrompublicawarenessoutsidetheFourCornersarea.Thedebunkerswerejustbeginning.

ThencametheRobertsonPanelof1952–53,whosetaskwastoexplainawaythesaucersthatoverflewthenation’scapital(andtheCapitolitself!)inJuly1952.Thepanelsummarizeditsfindingthattherewerenothreatstonationalsecurityandthusimpliedthattherewasnothingtothethousandsofsightings.Theintentwasforthepublictoabandoninterestinflyingsaucersandstopreportingthesightings.

TheestablishmentofProjectSignin1947anditssuccessor,ProjectGrudge,in1949wasdesignedto

Page 138: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

gatherinformationonsightingsandtointerviewwitnesses.Itwasfollowedin1952bythewell-knownProjectBlueBook,whichostensiblywasempaneledtocontinuethestudyofUFOsbutactuallywasanofficewithaskeletonstaff,whosemissionwastoexplainawayaveragesightings,whilemorecrediblereportsnevermadeittoBlueBookinthefirstplace.

AFugitiveFromtheCondonCommitteeThesecondgovernment-financedefforttosilenceallUFOreportswasfundedbytheUSAFand

entrustedtotheCondonCommitteein1966,whichwaspredeterminedtofindthattherewasnoevidenceofanysubstancetoUFOphenomena.Afterthepredictablereportwasfiledin1968,ProjectBlueBookwasclosedinDecember1969.

Inthefallof2003Dr.RoyCraigwasinvitedtospeakattheAztec2004Symposium.ItwastobeheldinMarchofthenextyear.I(Scott)wasontheFriendsofTheLibraryCommittee,andRandyBarnesandIweretaskedwithselectingspeakers.Wealwayslikedtopresentopposingviews,asshownwithourinvitationstootherskepticslikeKarlPflockandDaveThomasinpreviousyears.CraiglivedinColorado,justacrosstheborderofNewMexico,sotraveltoAztecwouldhavebeenshorterthansomepeople’smorningcommute.

Iwasalittlehesitanttocallhim,buthisyearsworkingontheCondonCommitteefortheAirForceintriguedme,asitdidtherestoftheAztecboardmembers.TheCondonCommitteewassponsoredbytheUnitedStatesAirForcetostudyknownUFO(flyingsaucer)casesandhavethemevaluatedbyscientistsratherthanAirForcepeople.ColoradoUniversitywaspaid$131,000peryearforthis1966–68study.TheAirForcehistoryofUFOstudiesbeganwithProjectSignin1947,thenontoProjectGrudgein1949,andthenProjectBlueBookin1952.WhenflyingsaucersflewoverWashington,DC,inJuly1952,theAirForcesetuptheRobertsonPanel,whosereportin1953assuredthepublicthattherewasnorealitytoUFOs.

BecausewavesofUFOreportsneverstopped,theAirForcesetuptheCondonCommitteeinthesummerof1968underthedirectionofEdwardCondonattheUniversityofColorado.ThecommitteewascomprisedofscientificcommunityluminariessuchasastronomerWilliamK.Hatmann,MichaelWertheimer,DanCulbertson,JamesWadsworth,andNormanLevine,aswellasDr.RoyCraig.ThecommitteewasgivenreportstostudynotonlyfromtheAirForce,butalsofromindependentUFOgroupssuchasDonaldKeyhoeandRichardHallfromNationalInvestigationsCommitteeOnAerialPhenomena(NICAP),andindependentresearchersfromAerialPhenomenaResearchOrganization(APRO).

CraighadmadeseveralcommentsduringhistimewiththeCondonCommitteedescribingflyingsaucersas“utternonsense,”“highlysuspect,”and“unexplained,butveryweak.”3Whenheansweredmyphonecallmymisgivingsevaporated,asCraighadasoothingvoice.HeseemedtolistencarefullyasIexplainedwhowewereandwhatweweretryingtoaccomplish.IwassurprisedtolearnthathehadattendedthefirstUFOSymposiumheldinAztecin1998andenjoyeditverymuch.WhenIaskedhimifhehadeverbeentothecrashsite,tomyshockhesaidhe’sbeenthere“severaldozentimes.”4Ihadexpectedhimtolaugh,asmanydidbackthenatthebriefmentionofanAztecUFOcrash.

Craigtoldmethatthecommitteewasgivencasesforwhichtheconclusionwaspre-determined.HevolunteeredthatAztecfascinatedhimandthatthecommitteewouldhavelovedtostudyacaselikeAztec.Inhiswords,“alltheplayerswerestillaliveandthecrashsitewasknowntomost.”Heenjoyedtakinghikesoutatthecrashsiteandnotedthat“therewasenoughphysicalevidencetheretomakeacasetostudy.”HeexplainedthattheCondonCommitteewasapublicrelationscommittee,morethanascientificcommittee.TheAirForcehadsetupan“independent”committeeofwell-knownscientistswhoweresupposedreachapre-determinedoutcome:Flyingsaucersdonotexistandthereisnoneedtostudyanyfurther.

Page 139: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Whenweweregettingreadytosignofffromourconversation,CraigexplainedthathewouldnotbethereinMarch2004.Hethenexplainedhewasdyingofcanceranddoubtedhewouldbealiveatthetimeofthesymposium.Sadly,CraigdiedMarch18,2004,justdaysbeforethe2004UFOSymposium.

Despitetwogovernmentfindingsthatflyingsaucersdonotexist,thepubliccontinuedtoseeinexplicablethingsintheskyandontheground,butfrom1950to1980therewasverylittleawarenessofthemajorproofsthatalienspacecraftnotonlyvisitedEarth,butthatsomehadcrashedandwererecoveredandjealouslyguardedbygovernmentagenciespracticingunrelentingsecrecy.

ThewatershedofsecrecyintheAzteccasekeepsreturningtothefraudtrialofSilasNewtonandLeoGeBauer.AfteraspuriousconvictioninDecember1953,UFOresearchavoidedanyhintofcrashedorrecoveredflyingsaucers.

Manyresponsibleorganizations,suchasNationalInvestigationsCommitteeonAerialPhenomenaandtheMutualUFONetwork,continuedtoinvestigateflyingsaucersightings.TheoriginalNICAPwasamajorresearchorganizationfrom1956intothe1980s;MUFONwasstartedin1969andstillremainsactivetoday.DonaldKeyhoe,ofNICAP,publishedseveralwell-researchedbookswiththethemethatflyingsaucerswererealandthattheywerepilotedbyaliensfromouterspace.

TheAerialPhenomenonResearchOrganizationinNewMexico/ArizonawasoperatedbyCoralandJimLorenzentoprocessreportsofUFOevents,anditwasactivefrom1952to1988.TheAPROauthorspublishednewslettersandaseriesofbooksonflyingsaucers.TheLorenzensreleasedtheirbookFlyingSaucerOccupantsin1967,buttheRoswellandAztecIncidentswerenotmentionedinthatbookor,forthatmatter,inothersofthemultitudeofUFObooksandmagazinespublishedupuntil1980.ItisnotthatUFOswerenotofinterest,butcrashedsaucersandrecoveredcrewmemberswerebeyondthepaleofresponsiblecoveragetomost.

TheLeonardStringfieldEnigmaOccasionallyarticlesdidmentionlandedsaucersorevendeadbodiesofoccupants.Leonard

Stringfield(1920–1994)foundedCivilianResearch,InterplanetaryFlyingObjects(CRIFOS)in1957andalsoworkedwithNICAP.HisstatusreportsforCRIFOSincludedaccountsofalienautopsiesandencounterswithaliens,reportsthatweredistributedmainlytoaspecialinterestsegmentoftheUFOcommunity.

StringfieldwasanimportantUFOinvestigatorbecausehehadalongAirForceIntelligencebackgroundandhadmanyconnectionstosecretsources.ClosetotheendofWWII,heexperiencedaUFOsightingwhilewiththeArmyAirCorps.Hisstatusreportsclearlydescribedrecoveredalienbodiesandencounterswithaliens.Hekepthisconfidencesandneveridentifiedhissources,whichmeantthathisreportsremainedtantalizingbutunconfirmed.SeriousUFOresearcherstrustedStringfield’sinformation,however.HisoccasionalreferencestoAztecgenerallywereuncomplimentarytoFrankScullyandwereacceptingofthehoaxcoverstory.HeblamedScullyforstartingthe“littlegreenmen”storiesthatbecamestandardcartoonfareinthatera.5InStatusReportIII(p.1)Steinmanwritesthestandarddismissal,“…rememberedFrankScully,whointheearly1950swroteabookaboutasaucercrashin1948inAztec,NewMexico.Thebook,usingsomeallegedlyshadycharacters,wasdeclaredahoaxandScullywasaxedintodisgrace.”6Stringfieldobviouslychangedhismindbetween1982and1991.

PerhapsStringfieldwarmeduptoWilliamSteinmanenoughtowritetheforewordtoSteinman’sbook.ThoughhewrotethatSteinman’sabsenceoffirsthandwitnessestotheAztecsaucerlandingwasaseriousdetrimenttothestory,heexpressedadmirationforSteinman’sdiligentresearch.Ofcourse,Scottlaterfoundlivingwitnesseswhohadbeenonthemesawiththesaucerin1948.

ThemostinterestingofStringfield’sreferencestoAzteccameinhisscarceUFOCrashRetrievals:TheInnerSanctum,StatusReportVIin1991(pages40–51).Here,yearsafterwritingabookforeword

Page 140: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

forSteinman,Stringfieldfindsanotheranonymouswitnesswhospeaksindetailofa“Farmingtoncrash”butwhosedetailsaredefinitelyfromAztec,rightdowntothepunctureoftheportholeinthedomeandtheshapeofthecraftsometiculousthatacomputer-generatedimagewascreatedforhisbookthatisidenticaltothediscdescribedinthisbook.

Someinformationshowsdiscrepanciesastodatesanddetails,butthatistobeexpected;however,thesmalldiameterholeintheportholeandtheflatdiscwithtopandbottomdomes,lyingonthegroundatafive-to10-degreetiltcouldbenothingbuttheAztecsaucerbeingdescribedbyamemberoftheoriginalmilitaryrecoverycrew.Thismanremembered14bodiesinthecraft,asopposedtothe16rememberedbywitnessesresearchedbythecurrentauthors.

LeonardStringfield’spublicationsremainscarce,butherecordedmuchaboutcrashedsaucersandalienbodies.Attheend,beforehisdeath,hebegantoseeAztecasarealevent.InhisfinalStatusReportVII(p.3)in1994,hestatesdefinitively,“Atthiswriting,Ihave45firsthandsourceswhoclaimtohavewitnessedthealiencraftand/orthebodiesingovernmentcustody.”7Hebelievedthat“most”weretellingthetruth.

UFOs:TheInterimYearsUFOgroupsspranguplikemushroomsinthe1950sthroughthe1980s,andthefringebelieversbuilt

landingstripsinCalifornia,holdingconventionsatplacessuchasGiantRock(sometimesreferredtoas“GreatRock”)whilelisteningtocontacteeswhoclaimedtohavetakenridesinflyingsaucers.However,aftertheBettyandBarneyHillabductionsin1961,theUFOidealofbenevolentblondspacebrotherschanged,and,combinedwiththerealityofTravisWalton’s1975abduction,usheredinanewera.

ThirtyyearsafterthesuccessfulsuppressionofbothRoswellandAztec,thepublicationofTheRoswellIncidentin1980wasthefirstwidelypublishedaccountofarealflyingsaucercrashandrecovery.Thebookawakenedpublicsuretythatflyingsaucerswererealandthattheyhadnotonlyabductedhumans,butthattherewererealcrashesandrecoveries.ThefirstbookonRoswellheraldedanavalancheofworksthathavebecometoomanytolist.EventhoughtheRoswellIncidentcametobeacceptedbymostpeopleasaprovenrecoveryofanalienspacecraft,Aztecstilllaboredunderthestigmaofbeingahoax.

Thecover-updamwasthenbreachedbyWilliamSteinman,whowentbacktoScully’sbookanddecidedtoinvestigatetheAztecIncident.His1986book,UFOCrashatAztec:AWell-KeptSecret,cameoutthesameyearasScottcoincidentallyheardaboutwhatlocalsrefertoas“theoldcrashsite”atAztecandbeganhison-siteinvestigationsbeforeheeverheardofSteinman’sbook.TheculminationofthatworkandtherealityofAztecisdocumentedinthisbook.

AfterSteinman’sbook,researcherChrisEvansindependentlydugintotheAztecstory,eveninterviewingtheScullyfamilytoconfirmthatFrankScullyhadprotectedthenamesofthescientistswhosecretlyworkedontheAztecrecovery.Evans’s2003book,AlienConspiracy,gaveadditionalsupporttothestory.

NowwithproofofthelocationoftheAztecsaucerrecoveryandevidenceconfirmingitsreality,Scottandfriendsfinancedtheerectionofaplaqueatthecenterofthelandingspot,commemoratingtheeventforallwhovisitedHartCanyon.Itwasalsoduringthispost-2000periodthatScottworkedwithufo.comtoreleasethefirstDVDonAztec:Aztec1948UFOCrash,in2004,excerptsfromwhicharestillavailableonYouTube.

InthewakeoftheAztecDVD,theHistoryChannel’sseriesTheUFOFilesproducedepisode“Hangar18,”inwhichare-enactmentoftheoilfieldworkers’discoveryoftheAztecsaucerispresentedinmuchthesamewayasRoswellwasre-enactedinearlierdecades.ThisdocumentaryisstillregularlyshownonTheHistoryChannel.

Page 141: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

AstheRamseysandFrankThayerwereworkingonthedefinitivebookaboutAztecin2011,aprominentMexicanTVpersonalitycametoAztec,filmedafulldocumentaryabouttheAztecIncident,andinterviewedtheRamseysandThayeraspartofabilingualproductionairedundertheseriesnameTercerMilenio(ThirdMillennium)andseenthroughoutMexicoandCentralAmerica.

InternetsitesreferencingtheAztecIncidenthaveincreasedinnumberandhavechangedinthepastthreeyears,althoughthestandardandunsourcedWikipediareferencetoAztecstillcallsita“hoaxedevent.”IntwopagesofAzteclinksontheInternet,thereisanincreasingacceptanceofthevalidityoftheevent.Somesitesaresourcedtotheauthorsofthisbook,and,aswell,websurferscanfindtheusualdebunkersitesclaiming,“Itclearlyisahoax,andthatisallthatithaseverbeen,”asquotedfromauthorKevinRandle,inhis1995bookAHistoryofUFOCrashes.8OfcoursethatstatementwaswrittenbeforeScottfoundlivingwitnesseswhowerepresentonthemesain1948.

Forthoseseekingnamesofresearchers,UFOauthors,andknownnamesinthefield,themostcompletebibliographyisfoundatbibliography-Tripod(http://gluckt.tripod.com/ufofacts/names.html),althoughtheRamseysandThayerarenotcurrentlylistedamongthenamescitedthere.

MysteryVisitortoHartCanyonAmanonfootappearedinAztec,NewMexico,inJune1975,andthecloserwelookattheevent,the

moremysteriousbecomesthestory,astoldtoWilliamSteinmanbyHarveyandVivianMelton.9HegavehisnameasRaymondMeier,andhesaidhewasaretiredU.S.MarineCorpsmajorfromAlbuquerque.Byallaccountshelookedmorelikeahippyoftheera,withabackpackandlongishwhitehair.BytheMeltons’account,hewasofmuscularbuildandrobustlyhealthy,withanunusual“rosyglow.”10Theyalsosaidhewasquietandpolite.Hesaidwaslookingforsomeonewithafour-wheeldrivevehiclewhocouldtakehimtothespotwhereaflyingsaucerhadcrashed.

WhenhemettheMeltons,theyagreedtodrivehim.ThethreewenttotheBensonLeeperranch,whereLeeperwasinvitedtojointhem.Byallaccounts,onceMeierwasontheroad,hewasabletorecognizetheexactspotwheretheAztecsaucerlanded.Withourrecentresearch,wearenowcertainthatLeeperwasatthecrashsiteonthedayofthe1948event,thoughheneverrevealedittoanyonebuthiswife.

Meierspentanhouronthemesa,examiningitemsand“snappingpictures,”theMeltonssaid.HereturnedwiththeMeltonsandjoinedthemfordinner.Strangely,andeventhoughMrs.Meltonwasanexcellentcook,Meierwouldonlyeatthevegetableshecarriedinhisbackpack.TheMeltonsinvitedhimtospendthenightintheSpartantraveltrailerontheirproperty

MeierleftAztecthenextday,onfootasfarastheMeltonsknew.HesenttheMeltonsathank-youletter,butwhentheywrotebacktothereturnaddressontheenvelope,itwasreturnedmarked“notatthisaddress.”Whowas“Meier”?Howdidheknowthecrashlocation?Howdidhedisappearalmostasquicklyasheappeared?IfMeierwasaretiredofficerin1975,hewasoldenoughtohavebeenintheserviceatthetimeoftherecovery,buthedidknowthesitelocation.Aslikelyasnothisidentitywaswhatintelligenceofficialscall“alegend”:falsefromnameandbackgroundallthewaytoblindaddresses.

AsforBensonLeeper,by1975hewasoneofthemostprominentranchersinSanJuanCounty,buthehadcometoAztecmanyyearsbeforewithhiswife,Ruby—onfoot,asthecouplehadwalkedfromOklahomaduringthedepression,headedforCalifornia.TheystoppedinAztecwhenaranchergaveBensonajob.Leeper’shardworkandindustryservedhimwell,asdidthefactthathewasatthesiteofthecrashin1948.

StillunconfirmedisastorytoldbyRubyinherlateryearsthatthemannamedMeiermayhavevisitedHartCanyonmorethanonce,andthat,ontheotheroccasion,hearrivedattheLeeperranchonfootanddepartedthesameway.11Unfortunately,thedateofthatotherallegedvisithasnotbeenconfirmed,sothe

Page 142: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Meierstoryremainsincompletefornow,butcertainlyamystery.SteinmanalsowroteaboutRichardMiller,anothervisitortoHartCanyon,whoin1952wasguidedto

themesabyananonymousfriend,whohadsupposedlylearnedthelocationfromsomeonewhohadbeenpartoftherecoveryeffort.

MillerbecameknowntoUFOresearchersmainlyafterhebecameacontacteein1954,andnotesfromtheInternetshowthathewasinthemilitaryatthetimewhentheArmyAirCorpsbecametheU.S.AirForce.Helaterproducedaseriesofaudiotapes.In1952andforsometimeafterthat,hesoughtoutUFOresearcherstomakeAztecthecenteroftheflyingsaucerstory,buttheCahnconhadbythenrenderedAztecuntouchable.AccordingtoSteinman’saccount,Millerattemptedtogetfundingfromresearchersintheearly1950sto“excavatethetopofthemesa.”12Fortunatelyhewasunsuccessful,becausethesauceritselfwasintactonlandingandleftnoartifactsordebris,savethatwhichremainedfromthemilitarypresenceduringtherecovery.Miller’svisitswerenotgenerallyknownuntilSteinmandidhispioneeringfieldresearchintheearly1980s.

ATimetableofAztecDiscovery

June24,1947 KennethArnoldreportedaflightofUFOsnearMt.Rainier,Washington.

July8,1947 “RoswellAAFCapturesFlyingSaucer”(RoswellDailyRecord).

July9,1947 “GeneralRameyEmptiesRoswellSaucer”(RoswellDailyRecord).

1947 GovernmentProjectSigninitiatedtocollectflyingsaucerdata.

March25,1948 LandedflyingsaucerrecoveredonHartCanyonMesanearAztec,NewMexico.

1949 GovernmentProjectGrudgereplacedProjectSign.

March8,1950 SilasNewton,as“ScientistX,”deliveredalectureattheUniversityofDenver,revealingthataflyingsaucerlandedandwasrecovered“within500milesofthiscity.”13ThelecturewasrecordedbyNewton’sfriendGeorgeKoehlerofradiostationKMYR.

March16–18,1950 MassflyoverofflyingsaucersatFarmington,NewMexico,seenbyhundredsandreportedinTheFarmingtonDailyTimes,butnotcarriedbythewireservices.Debunkedbyastatepolicemanwhosaidthesaucerswereflufffromcottonwoodtrees.

July1950 FlyingSaucersAreRealbyDonaldKeyhoepublished.Page165mentionsthevisittoGeorgeKoehleratradiostationKMYRinDenver,Colorado,thendismissesthe“littlemen”storyastoldbySilasNewtonintheDenverlecture.

Page 143: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

September1950 BehindtheFlyingSaucersbyFrankScullypublishedbyHenryHolt&Co.

1952 ProjectBlueBookinitiated,replacingProjectGrudge.

July19–20,1952 UFOsoverflewWashington,D.C.

1952–1953 TheRobertsonPaneldebunkedallUFOaccountstodiscouragepublicinterestinflyingsaucers.

September12,1952 TheFlatwoodsMonstercase,alandingcaseinWestVirginiathatwasheavilydebunkedasameteoruntilresearchedandrevivedbyFrankFeschinoin2002,resultingintwobooksbythatauthor.

September1952 “TheFlyingSaucersandtheMysteriousLittleMen”articlebyJ.P.CahnappearedintheSeptember1952editionofTrueMagazine,attackingSilasNewtonandLeoGeBauerinordertodebunkclaimsofarecoveredflyingsaucer.

November1953 SilasNewtonandLeoGeBauerfacedfraudchargesinthedistrictcourtinDenver,Colorado,withchargespartiallyengineeredbyJ.P.Cahn.

1953–1978 AnavalancheofUFOreports,books,magazinearticles,movies,andTVdocumentariescarriedlittleornoinformationabouttheRoswellorAztecIncidents.ThosewhodiscussedpossibleUFOoccupants,suchasLeonardStringfieldandtheLorenzens,werenotwellknownoutsideUFOcommunity,andStringfieldnevernamedhissources.

November1968 TheCondonReportissuedtodebunkallUFOreportsandbringanendtoofficialgovernmentstudyofUFOsaswellastodiscourageanypublicreportingofincidents.

December1969 ProjectBlueBookterminated,endingtheopengovernmentstudyofUFOreports.

October27,1974 ProfessorRobertCarrinterviewedintheClearwaterSun;hementionedalienbodiesfromtheAzteccrash.

1975 ThemancallinghimselfRaymondMeiergotoffabusnorthofAztecandaskedHarveyandVivianMeltontodrivehimtotheplacewhereaflyingsaucercrashed.

February21,1978 StantonFriedmaninterviewedJesseMarcelby

Page 144: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

telephoneforthefirsttimeaboutaflyingsaucercrashnearRoswell,NewMexico.

1980 TheRoswellIncident,thefirstbookaboutaflyingsaucercrashnearCorona,NewMexico,publishedbyBerlitz&Moore.

July5,1982 WilliamSteinmanarrivedinAztectopersonallyinvestigatetheinformationreportedinFrankScully’s1950book.

1986 WhilevisitingtheFourCornersareapromotinghisnationwideelectricwirebusiness,ScottRamseyheardabout“theoldcrashsite,”aslocalsreferredtoit,andbecomescuriousaboutthestory—thusbeginningaresearchagendathatcontinuestothepresentday.

1986 UFOCrashatAztecbyWilliamSteinmanandWendelleStevenspublished.

Spring2000 ThefirstplaquecommemoratingtheAztecIncidentinstalledbyScottRamseyandfriendsatthecrashsiteinHartCanyon.

2003 Dr.RoyCraig,ofdebunkingCondonCommitteefame,admittedtoScottRamseyinatelephoneinterviewthathehadvisitedtheAzteccrashsite“severaldozentimes.”

2003 TheAlienConspiracybyChrisEvans,withemphasisonAztecas“theMotherofAllAlienCrashTales,”published.

2004 Aztec1948UFOCrashDVDissuedbyufotv.comwithScottRamsey.

November6,2006 AztecIncidentdepictedintheepisode“Hangar18:TheUFOWarehouse”onTheUFOFiles(TheHistoryChannelseries).

2011 AztecIncidentTVdocumentaryintheMexicoseriesTercerMilenio(TheThirdMillennium),includinginterviewsw/theRamseysandFrankThayer,released.

2012 TheAztecIncident:RecoveryatHartCanyonbyScottRamsey,SuzanneRamsey,FrankThayer,andFrankWarren,published.

2015 TheAztecUFOIncidentbyScottRamsey,SuzanneThayer,andFrankThayer,publishedbyNewPageBooks.

Page 145: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

14

Dr.GeeandtheMysteryMen

“Menwhowouldtalkfreelyinthesummerof1949wouldn’ttelltheirstoryfor$20,000,000bythesummerof1950.ButIremembered.Betterthenelephants,Iremember.Infact,elephantscometomewhentheyforget.”

—FrankScully,19501

Ourresearchinto2015provestousthatFrankScully’sbookBehindtheFlyingSaucersisveryclosetothetruthineverydetail.SomepeoplehavewrittenofftheAztecIncident—andFrankScully,forthatmatter—becauseofJ.P.Cahn’smagazinearticleclaimthatSilasNewtonandLeoGeBauerwereconmen,thusmakingtheAzteccrashstoryahoax.Asyoureadthisbookyouwillconcludethat,evenifNewtonandGeBauerareremovedfromthestory,AztechasafoundationstrongerthantheanomalousconcretepadfoundonHartCanyonMesa.

Thatsaid,wenowlookintothemysteriousDr.GeeandtheothersecretscientistswhomFrankScullyrolledintoacompositewiththatnameandwhowerethesourcesforthefactsinScully’sbook.ItwasprimarilythepoisonpenarticlebyCahninTrueMagazinethatclaimedalltheDr.Geescientistswereactuallyoneman:PhoenixbusinessmanLeoGeBauer—apatentfalsehood.

ReferencestothescientistorscientistsarescatteredthroughoutScully’sbook,andinonereferenceDr.Geewasdescribedasaman“havingmoredegreesthatathermometer.”2Laterinhisbook,ScullydescribedDr.GeeasacompositeofninescientistswhocameforwardandtalkedwithhimabouttheAzteccrash.WenarrowedoursearchforthesesecretscientistsbasedonthedescriptionsofferedbyScully,andwewillattempttoidentifythem.

Someofthe1948AzteceventsastoldtoScullybyDr.Geeseemedfar-fetchedtothe1950reader.Whenwebegantoinvestigatewhatwasreallyhappeningbehindthesceneswithmilitaryanddefensecontractorsinthelate1940s,apicturecameintofocusthatwouldmaketheAztecsaucerrecoveryseemmuchmoreplausible.Hereweare,60-plusyearslater,determinedtopiercethecurtainofsecrecythatdescendedin1950.

SeveralfactorslinktheresearchscientiststoAztec.First,theycouldhaveknownorhavebeenassociatedwithSilasNewton,aneducatedgeophysicist,whothenintroducedthemtoFrankScully.Second,theirresearchintomagneticswouldhaveplacedthemincriticalpositionsduringWWII,workingwithVannevarBush.Third,theirexpertisewouldmakethemnaturalchoicestostudythefuturisticfieldpropulsionofarecoveredflyingsaucer.Finally,theywouldhavesomeconnectionwiththeseminalpre–WWIIorganizationGeophysicalServices,Inc.

SearchingfortheMysteryMenWebeganasearchforthescientistswhowereworkingwithclassifiedprojectsinthe1940s,aswell

asverifyingtheirfieldsofresearch.WecloselyexaminedtheeducationthatScullyclaimedforDr.Geeaswellasthosewhoworkedonthe“topshelf”projectsScullyclaimed.ThemostimportantquestionmightbewhethersomeoneingovernmentorthemilitarybelievedthatnationalsecuritywasthreatenedwhentheseflyingdiscstoriesorallegationsappearedinScully’sbook.

Page 146: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

AsmallcompanynamedGeophysicalServices,Inc.(GSI)wasstartedin1930byseveralmen,inmuchthewaythatsmallcomputercompaniessuchasAppleorMicrosoftbeganinthe1980s.ThesemenatGSIweregreatthinkersandwellaheadoftheirtime.Theyhadbigideasandenoughworkingcapitaltoturntheirdreamsintoaproductthatwouldlocateoilunderthegroundinawaythatnootherinstrumenthadeverdone.Thisdevicewouldeventuallycontributetothewareffortandpossiblymakethefoundersofthecompanyverywealthy.TheinstrumentwaslatertobecalledtheMagnetron,adevicethatcould“see”oilandwaterhundreds,andlaterthousands,offeetbelowthesurface.

Thesescientistssearchedforsomeonewhocouldtestthisinvention,andeveryoneintheoilbusinessknew,orknewof,SilasNewton.HisrésuméwasknownfromWallStreettoHalliburton.Newton’sassociates,fromtheWarDepartmenttoindividualinvestors,eithersworebyhimorsworeathim,dependingonwhichsideofthedealtheywereon.Oilcompaniesthathadabandonedoilfieldswerequicktoleaseunproductivefieldstohim,onlytoreapembarrassmentwhenSilasNewtonreturnedthefieldstoprofitabilityafterfindingdeepreserves.Newtonusedseveraldevicesovertheyearstoeithersearchforoilortolookforoilinvestors.Thoseinthefieldcalloil-detectiondevicesdoodlebugs.

Newtondidhavesomeamazingsuccessusingthedevicestofindoil,gas,andsometimeswater,ifthatiswhattheinvestorswanted.Afterall,waterismoreimportantthanoilforfarmersandranchersintheWest.

GSIandtheEntranceofVannevarBushSomeinvestorssaidthatNewtonalwayshadanedgeinhissearchforanythingvaluableunderthe

earth.DidSilasNewton,amanwhohadenormouswealthandsuccessinbusiness,haveaccesstotechnologythatotheroilcompaniesonlydreamedof?IsitpossiblethatGSIdevicesbecameTopSecretonlywhentheUnitedStateswastryingtowinaworldwar?

In1930,GSIwasfoundedwithanadvanceddevicecalledthereflectionseismograph,anditusedsoundwavestolookdeepintotheearthtofindeitheroilorwater.ThecompanywasfoundedbyDr.J.ClarenceKarcherandEugeneMcDermott.Theirinventionswouldbecomeessentialtoanti-submarineoperationswhenwarbrokeoutin1941.

By1939,thefoundingfathersofGSIstartedanothercompanycalledtheColoradoCorporation,anditwaslistedastheparentcompanyofGSI.ThepurposeofthiswastokeepGSIinthereflectionseismographbusiness,withoilandgasexplorationasitscoremission,whileColoradoCorp.wastodevelopothermanufacturingventures.By1941,GSIwasdoingwell,andtheColoradoparentcompanywasexceedingtheexpectationsofthebusinessplanputforthbyitspartners.

In1941,EugeneMcDermott,alongwithkeyemployeesJ.ErikJonsson,CecilGreen,andH.BatesPeacock,purchasedGSIwhenitseparatedfromColoradoCorp.Thefourmenborrowedalltheycould,re-mortgagedtheirhouses,andscrapedtogethereverythingtheyownedtocomeupwiththemoney.ThedealclosedonDecember6,1941,onedaybeforetheJapaneseattackonPearlHarbor.3

Theinitialstartofthecompanywasjustlikeanystartupbusinessuntiladayin1942whentheheadoftheOfficeofScience,ResearchandDevelopment(OSRD)cameknocking.Awell-spokenDr.VannevarBushcametointerviewthemaboutthereflectiveseismograph.ThisproducthadbeenusedbysomeoilcompaniesintheSouthwest,includingSilasNewton’soperation,andBushwantedmoreinformation.

Bush,easilythemostpowerfulandinfluentialscientistintheU.S.government,hadafewquestionsfortheyoungscientists.Couldthisproductreallyseeoilatthedepthstheywereclaimingtotheoilcompanies?Coulditreallydifferentiateoilfromwater?Ofmostimportance,heaskedifthedevicecoulddetectmetalunderwaterand,ifso,towhatdepth.

Thescientistsansweredthattheseismographcoulddifferentiatebetweenoilandwater,andthatthedepthaccuracywasprecise.Theyalsosaidthatfindinganythingmetallicunderwaterorevenpinpointing

Page 147: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

oilunderwaterwouldbeeasy.Bushcametothepoint,askingifthedevicecoulddetectasubmergedsubmarine.Thequickanswer

wasyes,andBushjustasquicklylaidoutabusinessplanforthestrugglingentrepreneurscientists:Howwouldyouliketohaveallthebusinessthatyoueverdreamedof?Howwouldyouliketohaveallthelateststate-of-the-artmachinery?HesaidtheOSRDwouldfrontthedevelopmentmoney,andGSIwouldpayareasonablepricefortheequipmentonthebackend.Bushtoldthem,however,thattheywouldhaveonecustomerandonecustomeronly:theWarDepartment.

BusinessatGSIwasdividedintofourgroupsduringWWII;thegroupswerelistedasfollows:1.TheLaboratoryandManufacturingDivision.2.TheApparatusDivision.3.TheEquipmentGroup.4.TheDefenseSystemsandElectronicsGroup,orDSEG.

WereitnotpossibletofindtherealDr.Gee,couldScully’sbookstillstandonitsown?Aswestatedearlier,theAztecstoryhasabroadandsolidfoundation,buttheoriginalstoryofDr.Geehasalwaysintriguedus.Afterspendingyearsdigginginarchivesandtravelingacrossthecountry,wearepreparedtosuggestseveralotherscientistswhofittheDr.Geerésumé.ThousandsofhighlyskilledpeoplewereimpressedintowartimeserviceduringWWII,butnotmanyofthemfitthedescriptionofDr.Geewhenthepileofrésumésisexaminedunderamicroscope;thelistcanbenarroweddowntoahandful.

Itwouldbepossibletowriteanentirebookoneachofthesescientists,andmuchmoredifficulttosummarizealloftheminabriefchapter.Intheinterestoftimeandspace,itispossibleonlytohighlightthecareersoftheseaccomplishedscientistsandtechnicianswhohelpedshapedvictoryinwaraswellasprovidingthebenefitsofthetechnologyweknowtoday.

Thischapterwillnevergivesufficientpraisetowhatthesemendidforthiscountryandforhumanity,butwearesearchingforconnectionstoafallenflyingsaucerandthebrainpoweritwouldtaketostudysuchafind.

ThefinaltwoscientistscanbedemonstratedtohaveallthecredentialsthatthecollectiveDr.GeeswerepurportedtohaveandcredentialsthatwerenotknowntothepublicatthetimeofScully’sbook.HowdidScullyknowthisin1949whenhewaswritinghisbook,whichwaspublishedinSeptember1950,atimewhenallofthesesecretprogramswerestillinplace?Itwasnecessaryforusasresearcherstosearchmultiplearchivestofindmanyofthesepeople,nottomentiontheprogramstheyworkedon,someofwhicharestillclassifiedtothisday!

AfteryearsofresearchintoFrankScully’sclaimthatacompanypossessedsecretmagnetictechnology,andthatacompanyhad“topshelfscientists”workingonitspayroll,letuslookatthebackgroundsofthesescientistsandfindoutiftheypassmusterasmembersofthatthemysteriousgroupofscientistsdescribedbyScullyunderthenameDr.GeeandwhocollectivelyrevealedthedetailsoftheAztecsaucertoScully.

TheKeyScientistsofDr.GeeCecilHowardGreen(1900–2003)

British-bornAmericangeophysicistCecilGreenhadearnedbothbachelor’sandmaster’sdegreesby1924,thelatteratMassachusettsInstituteofTechnologywithaspecialtyinelectricalmagneticfields.HewenttoworkfortheGeneralElectricResearchCenterinSchenectady,NewYork,whilecompletinghismaster’sbutthenacceptedajobwiththenewlyformedGeophysicalServices,Inc.,wherehemadehisfortune.DuringWWII,GSIwasmovedfromDallastoMinneola,NewYork,attherequestofandundertheconditionsprescribedbyVannevarBush.TremendousresourcesmadeavailabletothembyDivision6

Page 148: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

oftheOSRD,theironlycustomer.Duringthistime,Greenwasoverseeingnotonlythebuildingofanewsub-chaserbutotherelectronicsfortheU.S.ArmySignalCorpsandtheU.S.Navy.AverycloserelationshipwasbuildingwiththeWarDepartmentthatwouldlastformanyyears.

GreenservedasvicepresidentofGSIfrom1941to1951whenthiscompanywentfrommakinghigh-techelectronicsandsubmarinechasersforthemilitarytobecomingoneoftheleadinghigh-techcompaniesinAmerica.In1951,stillactingasvicepresident,GreenledthecompanywhenitwentpublicandchangeditsnametoTexasInstruments,whereheservedaspresidentoftheGSIDivisionfrom1951to1955andthenchairmanfrom1955to1958.In1976hewasnamedHonoraryDirector.

PatrickE.Haggerty(1914–1980)PatrickHaggertyearnedhiselectricalengineeringdegreefromMarquetteUniversityin1936,aswell

aseightadditionalhonorarydegrees,andhisWWIIconnectionwithGSImakeshimacandidateforDr.Geestatus.Hislifelonginterestinradioandelectricityledtohiswartimecareer.WhenWWIIbrokeout,HaggertyimmediatelyjoinedtheUnitedStatesNavalReserveasanensign.HeservedintheBureauofAeronautics,DepartmentoftheNavy,inWashington.HisfirstjobfortheNavywasevaluatingtheperformanceofthesupplierstotheWarDepartment.Thenextpartofhisassignmentwasprocurementandtheproductionofnavalairborneelectronicequipment,attherankoflieutenant.ItwasinthisnewresponsibilitythathemetthemenofGSI.

ImpressedwiththetechnologydevelopedatGSI,aswellasthehigh-qualitydevicestheywereabletodeliveronaveryshortnotice,HaggertythenaskedErikJonssonofGSIiftheyhadthecapacitytomanufactureotheritemsfortheWarDepartment,aslongasVannevarBushwassatisfiedwiththeplan.GSIwashungry,seekingallthebusinesstheycouldgeneratefromtheironeandonlycustomer.JonssonwaslatergivencreditforpersuadingHaggertythatGSIwasneededfortheelectronicsideaswellasthemechanicalsideofthebusiness.GSIwasaheadofallothersuppliersunderHaggerty’sdirection.SoonafterablessingfromBush,GSIhadallthebusinesstheycouldhandle,buttheyoungmentoldHaggertytokeepbringingthemopportunities,andtheywouldnotlethimdown.

JonssonandHaggertybecamegoodfriends.InNovember1945,JonssonpersuadedHaggertytoleavehispositionandjoinGSIasthetwoagreedthehighqualitythatGSIhadprovidedduringthewar,wouldhaveamarketnotonlywiththemilitary,butalsowithprivateindustry.Withthewaratanend,GSIneededanewandmorestablebusinessclimate,althoughHaggertywasconvincedthatGSIwouldstillenjoymanyyearsofmilitarycontractsbasedonthecompany’sprovenwartimerecord.

HaggertyjoinedGSIinNovember1945andwasgiventheresponsibilityfordevelopingtheresearch,engineering,andmanufacturingofthenewlyformedLaboratoryandManufacturingDivision.In1951,GSIbecameTexasInstruments(TI),andHaggertywaspromotedtoexecutivevicepresidentanddirector.In1958hebecamethepresidentofTexasInstrumentsandchairmanofthecompanyboardin1967,apositionhehelduntilheretiredinFebruary1976.

UnderHaggerty’sleadership,TIdevelopedtwonewmilitarytechnologies,includinglaserguidanceandinfrarednight-visionequipment.Otherdevelopmentsincludeairborneradars,handheldcalculators,knowntoalmosteveryone,andthethermalprinthead,whichmadepossibleafamilyofdataterminalswithsilentprinters.

KarlAugustHeiland(1899–1956)AztecresearcherandauthorWilliamSteinmanconcludedinhisbookthatDr.CarlAugustHeilandwas

therealDr.Gee.4HeilandwasthefounderandownerofTheHeilandResearchandExplorationCompanybasedinDenver.HeilandwasborninHamburg,Germany,attendedtheuniversitiesofHeidelbergandHamburg,gaininghisdoctoratefromthelatterin1923,destinedforacareeringeologyandgeophysics.

Page 149: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

HecametotheUnitedStatesin1935.HeilandwasalsoaprofessorofgeophysicsatColoradoSchoolofMines.

Duringhisyearsofoilexploration,Heilandrubbedshoulderswithmanyofthescientistswediscussinthischapter.HecertainlywasfamiliarwithSilasNewtonaswell,andbecausehewasbasedinDenver,HeilandcouldhavebeentheoriginalscientistinvitedtospeakattheUniversityofDenverbeforebackingout,leavingNewtontospeakasScientistX.

SteinmandiscussesHeilandandmakesthisprovocativestatement:

SinceDr.KarlA.Heilandwasconsidered,byMJ-12,tobetheunintentionalsourceoftheoriginalsecurityleak,theycontactedhiminprivate,briefinghimontheirversionofthecourtroomtrial(thatofNewton&GeBauer)andsuggestedawayforhimtomakeamends.TheyaskedhimtoappearasanexpertwitnessagainstGeBauerinordertodisprovetheauthenticityofGeBauer’selectromagneticoildetectingdevices.HeilandexplainedtohisvisitorthathecouldnotdosowithaclearconscienceandlookGeBauerintheeye,knowingthattheyhadbothdevelopedthosedevicestogether(italicsbySteinman).5

SteinmanwasnottheonlyresearchertoclaimthatHeilandwastheoriginalDr.Gee.UFOresearcherRichardOgdenwrotehisownbookinthe1960s(unpublished)abouttheUFOfield.6HesentacopyofhismanuscripttoSteinmaninthe1980s,whosharedChapter5withus.

InOgden’sChapter5,heusesmuchthesamestudymethodusedinthischapterinordertonarrowthefieldofscientists.Onpage134hefirstshowsthatDr.GeecannotbeSilasNewton,becauseScullysaysthatDr.GeeisacolleagueofNewton.Further,OgdenpointsoutfromScullythatDr.GeelivedinDenverandwasabletoflytotheAzteccrashsiteintwoorthreehoursandthatNewtondrovewithhimfromDenvertoPhoenix.

CoupledwiththefactthatthemainDr.GeeattendedtheUniversityofBerlin,Ogdenonpage136ofhismanuscriptthatDr.GeewasnoneotherthanKarlHeiland.Ogdenattemptedtocontacthimin1958,onlytodiscoverthathehaddiedin1956.

JohnErikJonsson(1901–1995)JohnErikJonssonearnedhismaster’sinengineeringatRensselaerPolytechnicInstituteandwas

successivelyawarded10honorarydoctoratesfrom1969to1984.MoresignificantlywashisconnectionwithALCOAandparticularlywithGSI,wherehesupervisedresearchanddevelopmentinNewark,NewJerseyin1930,andwasinstrumentalinhiringkeypersonnelforoilfieldexplorationin1934,possiblyhavingcontactwithSilasNewtonduringthatperiod.

DuringWWII,JonssonwasGSIliaisonwithWashington,DC,maintainingtherelationshipwithOfficeofScientificResearchandDevelopmentregardingsubmarinedetectiondevicesandcultivatingfutureelectronicscontracts.HeservedasGSIpresidentfrom1950to1958,duringwhichtimeTexasInstruments(successortoGSI)wasgrantedalicensetomanufacturethetransistorandtoenterthesemiconductormarketin1952.Itshouldberememberedthatthetransistoremergedinlate1947andissometimeslinkedbyUFOwriterstotechnologyfoundintheRoswellcrash.TexasInstrumentsintroducedthefirstpockettransistorradioin1954.JonssonservedasmayorofDallasfrom1964to1971,andonNovember22,1963,announcedtotheDallasCitizensCouncilattendees,whowerewaitingforPresidentJohnF.Kennedytojointhemforlunch,thatthepresidenthadbeenshot.

JonssondiedonSeptember1,1995,athishomeinDallas.HisfriendStanleyMarcuswroteinTheDallasMorningNews,“Erikwasawisemanwhosemindoutlivedhisbody.”7

Page 150: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

J.ClarenceKarcher(1894–1978)J.ClarenceKarcherwasafounderofGeophysicalServices,Inc.andanaturalcandidateforDr.Gee

status.KarcherwasalwaysanexcellentstudentandattendedtheUniversityofOklahoma,whereheearnedhisbachelor’sinbothelectricalengineeringandphysics,andwasheadofhisclass.In1918,whentheuniversitywasgrantedachapter,hewaselectedtoPhiBetaKappa.In1916,hebeganhisgraduatework,duringwhichhestudiedX-rayemissionsforhisdissertation,butWWIinterruptedhisgraduatestudies,andhequicklyfoundhimselfservingfortheBureauofStandardstryingtolocateheavyartillerybatteriesinFrancebystudyingtheacousticwavesgeneratedbybigguns.Duringthisassignment,henotedanunexpectedeventand,aftertheassignment,heswitchedhisresearchtoseismicwaveexperimentsintheearth.Heworkedonthetheorythatitwouldbepossibletodeterminethedepthsofunderlyinggeologicalstratabysendingvibrationsthroughtheearth’ssurfacebyrecordingthedelaytimeofthereturningenergywaves.

In1919,Karcherhadappliedforpatentsinreflectionseismologyasaresultofhispreviousexperiments.Whilecompletinghisdoctorate,hisformerprofessorsO’HearnandHasemanwereformingtheGeologicalEngineeringCompany.BySeptember1921,oilwasbringingin15centsperbarrel,andthemarketforanewoil-findingdevicewasattractivetotheoil-explorationcompanies.Hereagain,geophysicsandoilwouldprobablyleadtoanacquaintancewithSilasNewton.

OnJune4,1921,thewordswereengravedonamonumentnearOklahomaCitystated,“Provedthevalidityofthereflectionseismographasausefultoolinthesearchforoil.”

Asthepriceofoilincreasedto$3abarrel,KarcherleftanotherjobandwasbackatGeophysicalResearchCorporation,thistimeasvicepresident,andhewasgiven15percentofthecompany’sstockaswellasa$300,000budgetasaresearchfund,afterwhichhemovedthecompanytoBloomfield,NewJersey,wherehehiredyounggraduatestudentEugeneMcDermottfromColumbiaUniversity.

RichardM.PerduewroteaboutKarcherinHandbookofTexas:“KarcherservedaspresidentandgeneralmanagerofCoronadoCorporationfrom1939to1941,aschairmanoftheboardofLasTexasPetroleumCompanyfrom1941to1945,andaspresidentandchairmanoftheboardofComancheCorporationfrom1945to1950.HewaspresidentofConchoPetroleumCompanyfrom1950untilthetimeofhisdeath.”8Amonghisprofessionalandacademichonors,KarcherservedaspresidentoftheSocietyofExplorationGeophysicists,andwasafellowintheAmericanAssociationfortheAdvancementofScienceandintheAmericanPhysicalSociety.

Karcher’scareerwaswelldocumentedinamemorialissueofGeophysicsmagazinepublishedinJune1979.ThatjournalrecordsthatthemonumentnearOklahomaCity,placedin1971bytheSocietyofExplorationGeophysics,commemoratesthefiftiethanniversaryifthefirstsuccessfulfieldtestofthereflectionseismograph,whichenabledthediscoveryof‘billionsofbarrelsofoilandtrillionsofcubicfeetofgas’andallow(ed)ournationtopassfromahorseandcoaleconomytoanindustrialpetroleumeconomy.”9KarcherdiedinDallasonJuly13,1978.

EugeneMcDermott(1899–1973)EugeneMcDermottwasanotherGSIluminarywhobeganwithamechanicalengineeringdegreefrom

StevensInstituteofTechnologyin1919andwhoworkedatWesternElectricCompany,wherehefirstmetJ.ClarenceKarcher,ofGSIprominence.McDermottwentontoearnamaster’sdegreeinphysicsfromColumbiaUniversity.

By1930,withEverettLeeDeGolyer’sbacking,McDermottandKarcherstartedGSIandwonfivepatentstoutedbymultipleindustrynewsarticlesandpapersthattheywroteconcerningoilexploration.McDermottwasresponsibleforhiringGreen,Jonsson,andH.B.Peacock,andtakingGSIintothewareffort.Hereagain,thecommonthreadofgeophysicalresearchandoilmadeitverylikelythatMcDermott

Page 151: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

wouldhaveknownorknownofSilasNewton.McDermottwasgivencreditforbeingabletobuild“bulletproof”equipmentforthewareffortduring

WWII,ashewasusedtodoingthiswithequipmentdestinedforroughuseintheoilfields.Withallthefragileelectronictechnologyrequiredforthewareffort,buildingaunitthatwasalmostindestructiblewasconsideredamajorplusbyVannevarBush.

McDermotthadtheabilitytodesignandmanufactureelectronicdevicesaswellasanabilitytoreverse-engineeralmostanythinghewasgiven,asreportedbyonebiographerCecilGreen.ThislattertalentwouldhavebeencriticalwhenBushwasselectingtheteamtostudythecaptureAztecsaucer.

FiveoftheearlyGSIpatentswereallMcDermottengineeringdesigns,andheearnedtherespectofVannevarBushthroughtheunderstandingoftheneedforqualityandworkmanship.McDermottandtheotherscientistsatGSIweretrustedduringandafterWWII.TheGSI’sworkingrelationshipwithBushwouldfollowthescientistsforyearstocome,withtheirpathsundoubtedlyleadingtoAztecandperhapstotellingSilasNewtonthestorythatfounditswaytoScully.

HenryBatesPeacock(1894–1985)HenryBatesPeacockisanotherGSIscientistaboutwhomthereisinsufficientinformation,asidefrom

hisIowarootsandhisgraduationwithabachelor’sdegreefromtheUniversityofIowaandasubsequentdoctorateby1925.HetaughtattheUniversityofArizonauntilbeingrecruitedbytheGeophysicalResearchCorporationthatmorphedintoGSIin1930,andPeacockwasonhiswaytoalongcareerwiththecorporationuntilhisretirementfromTexasInstruments.AspartofGSI,heworkedwithOSRDduringWWII,buthiswartimeworkhasnotbeenreleased.

OttoHermanArnoldSchmitt(1913–1998)OttoSchmitt’sloveforelectricityandmagnetismbeganinchildhoodandgrewwithhistalentsfor

windingcoilsorrewindingelectricmotors.HeoncebuiltaTeslacoilandranitfromthe220-voltlinefromanearbypowerlineandgenerated200,000voltswithit.Heentertainedhisfriendsbyproducinglightninginhisbedroomand,byhisownadmission,scaringhismothertoneardeathmorethanonceintheirSt.Louis,Missouri,home.10

BySeptember18,1930,SchmittbeganclassesatWashingtonUniversityandby1931hehadeightpublications(hisbrotherFrancisco-authoredfiveofthem)forhisundergraduateworkandpublicationintheprestigiousScienceMagazine.In1934,Ottoreceivedhisdegreewithmajorsinzoologyandphysics,andthreeyearslaterheearnedhisdoctoratemajoringinbothphysicsandzoologywithaminorinmathematics.

In1936,avisittoWashingtonUniversitybyProfessorA.V.HillfromtheUniversityCollegeinLondonandNobelPrizewinnerformedicinein1922,ledtoameetingwithSchmittandapostdoctoralfellowshipwiththeNationalResearchCouncil.WithHill’sguidance,SchmittdidhisresearchattheWoodsHoleMarineBiologicalLaboratoryinCapeCodandwasworkingwithHillby1937.

InFebruary1939,SchmittreceivedaletterfromDeanJohnT.Tate,whomothersreferredtoasthegrandoldmanofphysicsatMinnesota.TheletterwasanofferforSchmitttojointhefacultyoftheUniversityofMinnesotawithdualappointmentsofzoologyandphysics.

InMarch1941,SchmittreceivedaletterfromVannevarBushappointinghimas“OfficialInvestigator”fortheNationalDefenseResearchCommittee(NDRC)inconnectionwithacontractthatNDRChadwiththeUniversityofMinnesota.ThisworkwasheadedundertheBush’sleadership.ByJune1941,theNDRChadevolvedintotheOfficeofScientificResearchandDevelopment,withmuchgreaterpowerandmuchmorefundinginthetightgripofBushandplacedontheshouldersofthementhatwouldnotonlymakehistory,butmakeithappeninaveryshorttime.

Page 152: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Bynowthemissionwasveryclear:TheOSRDwasforestablishedformilitarypurposes,andBushwastocoordinateallofit.Hishandrestedfirmlyontheshouldersofthosemenofscience(atermusedfrequentlybyFrankScully)whowouldtaketheirnewideasfromthedrawingboardtoproductionthroughoutthewar.

HisoldfriendJohnTate,whobroughtSchmittbacktoMinnesotain1939,hadtakenleavefromtheUniversityofMinnesotatoheadtheOSRDdivisionforthenewlyformedanti-submarinewarfareresearch.ByDecember1941theUnitedStateswasintothewarandwithGermanU-boatssinkingAlliedshipsatanalarmingrate,TatesummonedSchmitttojoinhiminRhodeIslandatalaboratorynearQuonsetPointNavalBasewhereTatehadcommandeeredagroupofPBYCatalinaamphibiousbomberswiththehelpofBush.ThesePBYswouldbeoutfittedwiththelatestmagneticdetectingdevices,knownlaterastheMADD(MagneticAnomalyDetector;laterreferredtoasMagneticAirborneDetectorDevice).

WhenTatesummonedSchmitt,hewascallingonamanwhowithanaturalbentforsolvingelectricalandelectronicproblems.Healsoknewthecriticaltechnicalproblemstheywerefacedwithandthattheyhadtobedealtwithinaveryshorttime.

Theprototypewasreadywithinamonth,accordingtoSchmitt,andtheywereabletogetaworkingmodelintotheairasaworkingprototypethatdependeduponsensingthetinymagneticanomaliesintheearth’sfieldcreatedbythepresenceofasteelsubmarine.ThefactthatSchmittwasessentialinhelpingsolvetheproblemwasimpressivebecausehehadshownnopreviousinterestinterrestrialmagnetism.

Overthefollowingfewmonths,Schmitt’sinteresthadgrowntothepointhewasflyinginthePBYbombersandrefiningthedevicewhenheactuallywentonbombingmissionsovertheAtlanticOceantoseehowwellthisnewgadgetworked.ThisisexactlywhatBushhadwantedinthefirstplace:hands-onmenwhocouldworkinthelaboratoriesandinthefieldifneeded.Bythesummerof1942,Schmittandafewhand-selectedscientistsweremovedfromtheirsecretlocationnearQuonsetNavalBasetoanewerlocationattheMineola,LongIsland,laboratorysoontobeknownastheAirborneInstrumentLaboratory(AIL).

Schmittwasalsogivencreditfortheprocessofdegaussing.Thistechniqueminimizedthemagneticsignatureofashiporsubmarine,whichlimiteddetectionbytheenemyanddiminishedthethreatofmagneticallyactivatedmines.ReadersmayrecognizethisasatechniqueassociatedwiththelegendaryandunconfirmedPhiladelphiaExperimentthatallegedlyproducedinvisibilityofanavaldestroyer.

AtechnologydevelopedbySchmittforusingradarsignaturestogeneratedcalibratedthree-dimensionalimagesofaerialtargetswaslaterimprovedandusedextensivelythroughoutthemilitary.AversionofSchmitt’sdevicewaslaterperfectedintestingandtrackingcapturedGermanmissilesatWhiteSandsProvingGroundsandwasreferredtoasthetenescope.

JohnTorrenceTate(1889–1950)JohnTatefitstheScullyprofileofaDr.Gee.Thoughhis1910master’sinphysicsandelectrical

engineeringdegreesarelistedasUniversityofNebraska,CreightonUniversityisalsoinOmaha,Nebraska,andcouldhavebeenScully’swayofcoveringforhisfriend,butTatealsoearnedhisdoctoratefromtheUniversityofBerlin,fittingScully’sdescription.Tatealsowasawardedotherhonorarydoctorates.

Thesonofacountrydoctor,TatebecameauniversityinstructorandheservedinWWI,duringwhichtimehisresearchborefruit,accordingtothespringissueofMinnesotaTechnology,inwhichBethanySteichenwrotethat“Tateandhiscolleaguesverifiedtheexistenceofdiscreteenergylevelsandshowedthattherewasadifferenceintheamountofenergyrequiredtospurradiationandtheamountofenergythatneededforionization.ThishelpedconnectBohr’stheoryandthoseofHeisenbergandSchrödingerinquantummechanics.”11AfterWWI,TatewenttoworkattheUniversityofMinnesota,whichnamedthe

Page 153: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

physicslaboratoryafterhimforallhisresearchwork.ThebuildingnowstandsastheTateLaboratoryofPhysics.

ScientistJohnTorranceTate,oftheUniversityofMinnesota,whofitsFrankScully’sdescriptionof“Dr.Gee.”

WhenWWIIbrokeout,Tatewasagaincalledintoservice.Interestingly,hewasrecruitedbynoneotherthanDr.VannevarBushtoheadupDivision6oftheNationalDefenseResearchCommittee(NDRC),whichneededtostepupitsanti-submarineprogramassubmarinetechnologywasgreatlyimprovingsinceWorldWarI.

HereweseehowallthescientistsnamedinthischapterhaveaconnectionwiththeOSRDandwithBushhimself.Tatededicatedhimselffull-timetotheNDRCastheheadofDivision6andalsoasthescientificadvisortothecommander-in-chief,UnitedStatesFleet,aswellasassistantchiefoftheOfficeofFieldServicesoftheOfficeofScientificResearchandDevelopment,wherehewasinchargeoftheOperationsResearch,andchiefmemberoftheRocketOrdnanceDivision,andtheNationalDefenseResearchCommittee.

Inthefranticpost–WWIIworldtherewasanadditiontohisworkasresearchprofessorattheUniversityofMinnesota.Hisrelationshipwithtop-secretworkfollowedhimeverywhere,asdidhisrespectforthoseheworkedwithinthegovernment.HewaschairmanoftheBoardofGovernorsfortheArgonneNationalLaboratoryfrom1946to1949andalsoservedaschairmanoftheCommitteeonUnderseaWarfarefortheNationalResearchCouncil,rubbingshoulderswithhisoldfriendVannevarBushalongtheway.

ScottandSuzannewenttotheUniversityofMinnesotaatMinneapolisinJuly2011tostudyboxesofarchivalmaterialaboutTate’slifeandwork.Aseparatebookcouldbededicatedtohisachievements.Mostoftheboxeshadnotpreviouslybeenopenedatthetimewevisitedthelibrary.

Apatternemergedamongtheletters,articles,andcommentsfromhispeersthatconsistentlydemonstratehismodestyandaversiontobeinginthepubliceye.Forexample,contrarytocommonacademicpractice,Tatelistedeveryoneelse’sname(includingthoseofstudents)beforehisnameonpapers.

WefoundevidenceofTate’stravelstotheSouthwestduringthetimeoftheAztecIncident,andwhenhereturnedtoMinnesota,Tatecontactedhiscolleaguesfarandwidetoorganizeapresentationaboutarevelationthathehadexperienced.

InfrontofalargeaudienceTatestatedthat,duringarecenttrip,hehadexperiencedsomethingthathadchangedhislife.Accordingtohim,whathehadseencouldchangethewaythatenergyisgenerated,how

Page 154: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

foodisproduced,andoverallhowhumanitycouldbeserved.Thiswasacompletereversalofhisnormalretiringattitude.

ItisinterestingthatamanwhoworkedforthewardepartmentcreatingweaponswouldcompletelychangehisfocusinlifefollowingatriptotheSouthwestandannouncehisdedicationtoprojectsthatwouldsavetheworld.

Inlate1949,Tatesufferedastroke,andhediedfromacerebralhemorrhageinMay1950attheageof60.Heisrememberedasoneoftheleadersanddrivingforcesinquantumphysicstothisday.ThetimingofhisdeathisfascinatinginthatFrankScullyreferstoaDr.Geewhowasnolongeravailableafter1950.

RichardC.Tolman(1881–1948)BorninWestNewton,Massachusetts,RichardTolmanearnedhisdegreesfromtheMassachusetts

InstituteofTechnology.DuringWWI,Tolman’s1916experimentsincludeaproofthatelectricityconsistsofelectronsflowingthroughametallicconductor,andin1927Tolmanpublishedatextonstatisticalmechanics,thebackgroundofwhichwastheoldquantumtheoryofMaxPlanck,NielsBohr,andArnoldSommerfeld.WiththecomingofWWII,TolmanwasrecruitedtoworkintheNDRCbyVannevarBush,andheremainedtherefromearly1940untilitbecametheOSRDonJune28,1941,whenTolmanwentontoworkforGeneralGrovesontheManhattanProjectthatresultedintheatomicbomb.Tolman’sworkincludedNDRCprojectssuchaschairofDivision“A,”ArmorandOrdnancegroupthatworkedon:StructuralDefense,InvestigationofPropulsionProjects,TerminalBallistics,ProximityFuses,andGuidedProjectiles.HediedsixmonthsafterAztec.

SummingUpDr.GeeAfterthisreviewoftheimpressiverésumésofbrilliantmen,itistimetofindthecommonthreadthat

bindsthesementogether.InChapter2ofBehindtheFlyingSaucers,Scullywrote,whendescribingwhatDr.Geehadtosay

aboutthemenwhohadinspecteddownedflyingsaucersandtheAztecflyingsaucer:“Well,hewassaying,tobeginwith,thatthereissuchathingasaflyingsaucer.”12Hewassaying,moreover,thattheAirForcedespiteitsannouncementtothecontrary,hadnotabandoneditsProjectSaucer,butwasoperatinganotherlevelandunderpossiblyanothername.Hewassaying,“Fouroftheseflyingsaucershadactuallylandedonthisearth.”ItwaslearnedyearslaterthattheAirForcehadinstitutedanothersecretflyingsaucerprogramwhilepubliclyannouncingthatthe1947–1949“ProjectSaucer”hadbeenabandoned.

Thecareersofleadingmeninthefieldofgeophysicalresearchhavebeencoveredinthischapter,andkeepinginmindthatthenumberofDr.Geestotalsuptoninescientists,oneofthemisquotedbyScullyassaying:“Thefirstsaucertolandonthisearth,hesaid,landedlessthantwoyearsprevioustohistalk,onasitewithin500milesofDenver.”13Now,Dr.Geeissaying,inouropinion,thattheAztecsauceristhefirsttolandonthisearth,notcrash,astheAztecstoryhasbeenpresentedbysomeresearchers.Azteciswithin500milesofDenver,andScullywouldnothavebeenrulingouttheRoswellcrashin1947orothersthathavebeenmentionedinthepast.Afterall,Scullyreportedwhathewastoldinthat“threeofthefour(saucers)hadbeencaptured.”14ItcannotbeemphasizedtoomanytimesthatRoswell,nowprovedbeyondreasonabledoubt,wasnotevenmentionedbyflyingsaucerresearchersorwritersuntilthestorywasbroughtbacktolifebyStantonFriedmanin1978.

Scullyalsostated:

He[Dr.Gee]repeatedlyusedtheword“we”whenreferringtoexperimentsbeingdoneonthestrangecraft.Hedidn’tassociatehimselfwithanyparticularexperiments.Healsoindicatedthatafulldisclosureofthegovernment’sinterestinflyingsaucers,thoughofficiallydeniedatpresent,

Page 155: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

wouldbeforthcominginthenottoodistantfuture.Hesaidthefirstdiskthatlandedwas99.9feetindiameterandhadacabinmeasuring72inchesinheight.Thesecondmeasured72feetindiameter,thethird,36feet.Allmeasurementsontheshipsseeminglyweredivisiblebynine,whichmayhavebeenacluethattheyusedoursystemofmeasurement.15

ThestatementmadebyScullythat“[h]edidn’tassociatehimselfwithanyparticularexperiments”isinteresting.Whynot?IntheOSRD,thesescientistsoversawthosewhoworkedonprojectsandthustheydidnotpersonallyperformtheexperiments.Theirjobwastohirethebestscientistsandengineers,putthemonprojects,andmakesuretheprojectshappened.

InChapter12,whentalkingaboutDr.Gee,Scullywrote:

Inthesummerof1949,whileconsortingwithmenengagedinmagneticresearchintheMojaveDesert,ImetamanofsciencewhosecontemporariesratedhimthetopmagneticresearchspecialistoftheUnitedStates.Hehad…degrees…fromsuchdiverseinstitutionsasArmourInstitute,CreightonUniversity,andtheUniversityofBerlin.HeisthescientistIhavecalledDr.Gee.16

ThatstatementwasaneonsignwithanarrowpointingtoJohnTorrenceTate,listedasoneofAmerica’sMenofScienceonthelistwediscoveredattheUniversityofMinnesota.ScullygoesontodescribethatparticularDr.Geebystatingthathe“hadmoredegreesthanathermometer.”17Now,ifDr.Geeisacompositeofninescientists,don’tthecandidatesthatwehavelistedhaveliterallymoredegreesandhonorarydegreesthanathermometer?Didtheynoteachhavealifelongcareeringeophysics,mathematics,orelectricalengineering?Didtheynotallhaveanaffinityforthestudyofmagneticengineering?

WehavetolookatotherhintsinScully’sbook.JohnTateattendedtheUniversityofNebraskaandfinishedhisPhDattheUniversityofBerlininonlytwoyears.CreightonUniversityisinOmaha,Nebraska,andtheUniversityofNebraskaislocatedthereaswell.CouldScullysimplyhavechangedthenametoprotectTate?

Inallofourresearch,wecouldnotfindanyothermatchesforamanwhowenttobothauniversityinNebraska,aswellastheUniversityofBerlin.KeepinginmindthethreatofWorldWarI,itwouldhavebeenriskyforanyAmericantostillbeinGermany,butTatewasthere,andhefinishedhisdegree.

ScullyfurtherreferencestoDr.GeeinChapter12:“Hehadbeenassignedtodirectadivisionoftopscientistsduringthewar.Theirtaskwastoknocksubmarinesoutofthesevenseasanddirected-missilesoutoftheskiesbyotherthan(the)slowanddishearteningmethodstheninuse.”18JohnT.TatewasinvolvedinVannevarBush’sDivision6thatconcentratedonanti-submarinewarfare.

TatewasassignedbyBushtodirectDivision6(1942)andDivision3(1942)oftheOSRD(OfficeofScientificResearchandDevelopment).Division6hadthefollowingmission:SubsurfaceWarfare,AntiSubmarinedevelopment.Also,thescientistsfromGSIwereworkinginthelaboratoryrightalongsidehim,alongwithOttoSchmitt,whomTatehadpersonallycalledinforhelp.Division3waschargedwiththefollowingtask:SpecialProjectile,RocketOrdnanceDivision.

SonowitiscertainthatTatewasrunningnotone,buttwoTopSecretdivisionsunderBush.ThemissionofbothDivision6andDivision3perfectlymatchesScully’sdescriptionofDr.Gee’sresponsibilities.

Scullyspecificallywrites,“Theyworkedoutoftwolaboratoriesandhadabudgetofonebilliondollarsattheirsecretcommand.”19MostreadersrecallthatduringWWII,thebudgetfortheManhattanProjectalonewas$1billion.KeepinmindthattheManhattanProjectfellundertheOSRD.Thenumbers

Page 156: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

of$2billionarecompletelypossibleandaccurate,soScully’sclaimpassesthistestaswell.Earlierinthischapterwhenindividualrésumésreviewed,itwasclearthatRichardC.TolmanservedasscientificadvisertoGeneralLeslieGrovesontheManhattanProject,andTolmanwasalsoheadofDivision“A”oftheNDRCbeforeitwaschangedtoOSRD.

FurtherquotingScullyinChapter12:“Whentheyfoundit,itwasinaveryrocky,highplateauterritory,eastofAztec,NewMexico.Theyimmediatelythrewaguardaroundit.ThenDr.Geeandsevenofhisgroupofmagneticscientistswerecalledintoexaminethisstrangeship.”20ThisstatementtargetsAztecspecifically,andanyonewhohasgonetothecrashsite,orlandingsite,northeastofAztec,knowsthatHartCanyonMesaisarockyplateau.

Mostcompellingisthestatementthat“Dr.Geeandsevenofhisgroupofmagneticscientistswerecalledintoexaminethisstrangeship.”Wehavejustlistedninescientistsinthisgroup,andnowwearedowntoeight:Dr.Geeandhisseven.Coulditbe,aswesawintherésumé,thatbythenRichardC.Tolmanwasinpoorhealth?Afterall,hediedonSeptember5,1948,justsixmonthsaftertheflyingsaucerwasrecovered.Hadhebeensickforaperiodoftime?Hisobituaryindicatesthathediedofpneumonia.

Chapter12alsocontainssomeinterestingclaimsbyScully,orinthiscasebySilasNewton.WhenNewtonasked,“Howdoyoudeterminethepresenceoftheseparticularships.Doyoustumbleonthemorknowthemomenttheycomeintoouratmosphere?”Dr.Gee’sreplywas:

InthelaboratoriesandalsoatAlamogordoandLosAlamosandatdifferentpartsofthecountrywehavetenescopeobserverswhospend24hoursadaywatchingforevidenceofobjectsorshipsflyinginthesky.Everythingthatcomeswithinrangeofthesetenescopesisnoted.Ifitisunfamiliarandlands,theAirForceisawareofitalmostimmediately,andifitpresentsscientificproblemsweorothergroupsareconsulted.21

Wehavewrittenaboutoursearch,in2000,fortheseareasofconcern.WefoundtheabandonedradarbasesnearElVado,NewMexico,aboutduenorthofLosAlamos,whosebuildingswerestillrelativelyintactin2000butlargelydecayedby2011.TheywereformerradarinstallationssetupfortheAtomicEnergyCommissioninthelate1940stoprotectthehomeoftheManhattanProject.Thebasethatwefoundwasthendesignatedthe767thA.C.&W.thatwasbuiltin1950.

WevisitedtheAirForceHistoricalArchivesatMaxwellAirForceBaseinMontgomery,Alabama,tofindoutmoreonthesebases.ItturnsoutthattheAtomicEnergyCommissiondidbuildafewradarsitestoprotectthelaboratories,actuallystartingin1946,thebeginningoftheColdWar.The767thA.C.&W.thatwefoundwasnotbuiltorcommissioneduntil1950,sowhereweretheradarbases?Itturnsout,aftermoreresearch,thattheoldbasewasabout6milestothewest,neartheElVadodamreservoir,wasrunbytheAtomicEnergyCommissionandwasactivein1948.

InChapter12,ScullyfindsDr.Geetalkingaboutthesubsequentlocationoftheflyingsaucer,saying,“Afterithadbeenbrokendown,itwasmovedtoagovernmentlaboratory,andthereitremainswhilepartswerebeingtestedforaconsiderableperiodoftime.”22

ItisimportanttorememberthatTolmanwasassociatedwithLosAlamos,alongwith10,000otherhighlytrainedpeople.WithLosAlamosbeingsocompartmentalizedthen,asitistoday,onlyahandfuloftop-levelpeoplewouldprobablyhaveaccesstothisamazingmilitaryfind.Otherswouldprobablybebroughtintoanalyzepartsandpieces,neverknowingwhattheywereworkingonorwherethepartsandpiecescamefrom.InhisAztecbook,SteinmantiesVannevarBushhimselftotheAztecsite,makingitevenmorelikelythathewouldhavebroughthistoplieutenantswithhim.

Afteryou,thereader,lookattherésumésofthesemen,askyourselfthisquestion:Didtheyhavethe

Page 157: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

qualificationstobecalledintoworkonaprojectassecretasthecaptureorrecoveryofalandedflyingdisc?ConsiderthatDr.VannevarBushandPresidentRooseveltentrustedthenation’swartimesecuritytothesemen,alongwithmanyotherbravemenandwomen.So,wouldtheynotalsocallthemintooneofthenewestTopSecretprojectsoftheColdWar?

Keepinmindthatthesescientistswereallsworntosecrecytohelpwinthewar,alreadyhadthehighestsecurityclearanceobtainable,hadthetrackrecordtoprovetheirworth,andhadtheblessingofapresidentatthebeginningofthewar,throughthewar,andattheendofthewar.Theywere,asScullydescribes,thebestmagneticengineersandmenofscience!

Scullylearnedthisstoryin1949,andmostofwhathewasclaimingin1950whenthebookcameoutwasstillclassified,andthatclassificationwascertainlyTopSecret.WherethendidScullygetthisinformation?IfhisbookBehindtheFlyingSaucerswasahoax—abookoffiction—orifhewasadupe,assomeclaimed,thenwholeakedtoScullytheinformationastohowNDRCwasrun?WhatwasthesourceofinformationastohowOSRDwasrun?WhendidtheylearnaboutsuchcompaniesasGSIandthesubmarinefinders,orMADD?WherewereScullyandNewtonintheoverallschemeofthingsthattheyhadaccesstothisinformation?WhydidScullytellthisstoryifnationalsecuritywasatstake?

Tolman,Tate,Schmitt,Peacock,McDermott,Karcher,Jonsson,Haggerty,Green:ninebrilliantscientistsheldcommonlinkstotheOfficeofScientificResearchandDevelopment,GeophysicalServices,Inc.,andtoVannevarBushduringWWII.AddtothelistKarlHeiland,whoknewSilasNewtonandLeoGeBauer,andwhothroughthemprobablymetoneormoreoftheothers,andwehave10possiblenames.Withoutadoubt,thoseconnectedwithGSIindisputablykneworworkedwithSilasNewton,amanofsciencehimself.SilasNewtonandhisUniversityofDenverlecturewerethelinktoFrankScully,anditwasNewtonwhointroducedScullytotheindividualscientistswhocomprisedthecompositeknownasDr.Gee.

TheEdelweissCaféclosetotheMelwynHotelinDenverwhereanattemptwasmadetosellsupposedphotosoftheAztecsaucertotheU.S.military.

Page 158: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

15

ExaminingtheEvidence

TheAzteccase,likeotherwell-supportedflyingsaucerrecoverystories,certainlyhasanauraofmystery,butifthestorywasbutafigmentofawriter’simaginationin1950,thenphysicalevidencewouldcertainlynotexisttoproveitsreality.

Inhis1986book,authorWilliamSteinmandescribedseveralinterestingartifactshefoundatthecrashsite,andhisdescriptionsremainasindicatorsofunusualactivityonthemesa,leadingustodiscoverothercuriositiesuniquetothiscase.FirstandforemostwashisdiscoveryoftheoldconcreteslabonHartCanyonMesaattheeastedgeofthecrashsitenearorattheendofwhatwenowcallthe“MilitaryRoad”leadingfromthemainroadtothetopofthemesa.

Theslabhasbeenmentionedelsewhereinthisbook,butinthischapteritisnecessarytogointodetailabouttheslab’sconstructionandpossibleorigin.WhenourAztecfriendRandyBarnesrediscoveredtheslabinthe1990s,ithadbeencoveredwithsiltandsandforyears,buttheslabisintheexactlocationdescribedinSteinman’sbook.Naysayersclaimtheconcreteslabisnothingmorethanawellcapremainingfromtheoilfielddays;otherssayitisacompressorpadthatonceservedasthebaseforalargecompressor.

Withthehelpofotherprofessionalsintheoilindustry,itispossibletoincreaseourunderstandingofstandardindustrypractice.Oilandgaswellsarehistoricallydrillednearabasin,notonarockymesa,especiallywhenpromisinglocationsforoilwellscanbeseenatthebottomofthehill,100yardsinanydirection.Astheexpertsconfirm,itjustmakesgoodsensetodrilldirectlyintotheground,notdownthroughbedrockatthetopjusttoreachthesamegroundatthebottomofthemesa.

TheinspectionofafewoilwellsthatareonhighergroundinnearbyLargoCanyon,southeastofAztec,showednooilwellsdrilledonmesasclosetoAztec.Ifthisistrue,whatdotheexpertsnowsayabouttheconcretepadonHartCanyonMesaastheyanalyzeitsoriginanditspurpose?

TheWellCapExplanationAlltheoilandgasindustryexpertscontactedsaidtheconcreteslabwasnotawellcap,aswellcaps

arenormallyareinforcedpipethatgoesverticallydownintothewell,withconcretepouredintothatpipeorheadtocloseoffanyoilorgasflow.Rarelyisarectangularpadeverpouredaroundthepipe,asthestrengthoftheheadpressureisinthemannerinwhichthepouredconcretefillsthepipeandsealsit.Themysteryslabisapproximately39inchesx39inches(1meter)and9.5inchesthick.Thepadishighlyreinforcedwithbothpencilrodandstandardre-barinsertedthroughoutthepad.

TheCompressorPadExplanationAlthoughaconcretepadcanserveasthebaseforacompressorthatisusedtopressurizenaturalgas

lines,in1948themaingaslinedidnotextenddownHartCanyonRoadasitdoestoday.ThemaingaslinesnowrundowntheArkansasLooptoHartCanyonbuttheydidnotduringtheperiodwhenthepadinquestionwaspoured.Acurrent-daycompressorpadsizegreatlydependsonthetypeofcompressor.TheAjaxcompressorhastherespectoftheindustryanditemploysatwo-cycleengine.Theseunitsrequireaconcretepadaslargeas50inchesx70inchesinmostcasesandupto3feetthick,andcertainlynotas

Page 159: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

smallas39inchessquareand9.5inchesthick.TheverdictstandsthattheHartCanyonpadwouldnotsupportanykindofgasfieldcompressor.

TheDripTanksExplanationThereaderwillrecallthatonthemorningofMarch25,1948,DougNolandandBillFerguson,ofEl

PasoOil,werecalledouttoquellthebrushfirereportednearadriptank—amajorconcernforthecompany.Driptanksnearafirewouldbeadisasterinthemaking.ThetankswereatthebaseofthemesanearHartCanyonRoad75feetofftheroad,backinguptothesteepwallsofthemesa.Adriptankbasecanbeofanysize,but39inchesx39incheswouldbeaverysmalldriptank,scarcelybiggerthana50-gallondrum.Logically,whyputasinglesmalltankonthetopofthemesawhentherewereseveralhugetanksatthebottomofthehill?

ThePumpPadExplanationThisisastretch,butitisbettertocoverallthebasesforthesakeofanticipatingthedebunkers.Some

pumppadscanbesmallandnotasthickasthepadinquestion,butthequestionwouldbe:topumpwhat?Thereisaspringonthenorthernslopeofthemesathathasbeenflowingforhundredsofyears,andScottenjoyedfillinghiscanteenwithcoolwaterfromthatperennialspringmanytimes.Itwouldnotmakeanysensetoplaceapumppadonthesouthernslopeofthemesa,butbecauseirrigationpumppadsofthatsizearefoundnearriversinthisarea,itwasprudenttoaddthispossibleexplanation.

Asthisiswritten,nobodyisgrowingcropsintheHartCanyonarea.Also,itshouldbementionedthatpumpbasesnormallyincludethreadedironstudscastintotheblock,somethingnotpresentintheHartCanyonmysteryslab.

TestingtheConcreteSamplesIn1999,wehadenlistedtheaidofacompanytodoacoresampleofthepadinordertodeterminethe

ageoftheconcrete.Becausenobodyhadclaimedownershipofthepad—nottheBLM,thegascompanies,notthedeededlandowners—wewerefreetodrillacoreandsendittooneofthebestconcretelaboratoriesinthecountry.ForthiswechoseWiss,Janey,ElsnerbasedinNorthbrook,Illinois,andwithofficesthroughouttheU.S.WeweredirectedtotheAustin,Texas,office,whereTomPattyservesasoneoftheworld’sleadingconcreteexperts.

Becauseofalimitedbudget,thetestswerenotasdetailedaswewouldhaveliked,buttheslab,accordingtoPatty,isveryoldandfitsintothetimeframeofthelate1940s,butdatingitto1948wouldhaverequiredwhatthefirmcallsa“Leachtest”thatconsistsofbombardingthesamplewithUVlighttoobservethedegradationoftheconcrete.Pattydidconfirm,however,itwasnotrecentlypouredconcrete,andwhoeverpouredthepadused“commongrout,”meaninganaggregateoflocalstonesandsand,asopposedtobringingitinfromanotherlocation.AllthatwasneededwasafewbagsofPortlandconcretemix,water,re-bar,pencilrodandamixingtroughandthemixturewouldbereadytopour.1

WelearnedfromPattythatallre-barisdated,andsometimesthepieceswillshowamanufacturer’smark.ThesampleswesenttoPattywereinconclusiveastotheexactdateofmanufacture.Furthertestscouldbedone,butthecostisveryhighandthetestswouldtakemonthsifnotayearormore.(NotefromScott:Onthedaywecutintotheslabandtookthecoresample,ifwehadboredintoawellcap,thisbookmighthavebeenwrittenbymywife,asIwouldstillbeinrecoveryfromburns—thatisassumingthatIwouldhavesurvivedtheresultingexplosionandfireball.)

Theconcretepadremainsamysteryasthisbookisbeingwritten.GoingbacktotheretiredAirForceNCOwhosaidaconcretefooterhadtobepouredafterthemilitaryroadwascutupontothemesa,asthesoilatthetopwastooloosetosupportheavyequipment:Wasthistheconcretefootertowhichhewas

Page 160: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

referringthatwouldhavesupportedacraneorsometypeofwinchingsystemthatwasusedtoremovesectionsofthecraft?

TheRadarBasesandthe767AC&WSteinmanmentionedinhisbookthatthreeradarbasestrackedtheAztecflyingsaucerthenightbefore

itcrashedorwasshotdown.FrankScullyalsowrotethatDr.Geetoldhimtheobjectwastrackedbyatenescope.

Toputinthisperspective,let’slookatthedirectquotefromDr.Gee,inScully’sbook:“InthelaboratoriesandalsoatAlamogordoandLosAlamos,andatdifferentpartsofthecountry,wehavetenescopeobserverswhospend24hoursadaywatchingthesky.Everythingthatcomeswithinrangeofthetenescopesisnoted.Ifitisunfamiliarandlands,theAirForceisawareofitalmostimmediately,andifitpresentsscientificproblems,weorothergroupsareconsulted.”2

SowhatwasintheFourCornersareain1948thatwouldbecapableoftrackingthisobject?GoingbacktolateDecember1996andjustafterNewYear’s1997,wetookatriptoNewMexicospecificallytoseeifwecouldfindanyradarinstallationslosttocurrenthistory.TopographicmapsfromtheU.S.GeologicalSurvey(USGS)inDenverhadbeenreceivedafewweeksearlier,allowingtimetostudythearea.Thesearchwasforanearlyradarlocationatahighenoughaltitudethatallowtheradartobeeffective—aserioustaskconsideringthemountainrangesinthatpartofNewMexico.

WetargetedtheLosAlamosarea,becausearadarsite,orsites,wouldalmostcertainlybeplacedtoprotectourmosthighlyguardedasset:theLosAlamosNationalLaboratory,homeoftheManhattanProject.

Scottandtwofriends,EdThomasfromupstateNewYorkandScottTickelofPittsburgh,Pennsylvania,flewintoAlbuquerqueandjumpedintoarentalvehicleforafewdaysinthewild.

AsScottrecalls:OurfirstnightwasinDulcé(January8,1999),whereArchuletapeakormesahasbecomethe

centerforsomeoftheworstfictionalUFOrumorsevercreatedaboutundergroundalienbasesundertheoldmountainwherelittlegraymencookbodypartsandplottheendofhumanity.WehaddrivenaroundDulcéinthecoldforadayandgottenatipfromabarwaitressnamedMabel

thatoneofherfriendshaddatedaguyfromElVado,whichis27milesfromChama.Sheexplainedthat,afterWWII,thegovernmentbuiltsometypeofinstallationintheChamaarea,nearaman-madelakethatwasalsobuiltonlyafewyearsbeforetheinstallation.Mabelthoughtitwasalongshot,butthelocationishighup,northofLosAlamos,andalsointhemiddleofnowhere.Thisseemedrightupouralley,sothenextmorningweheadedoffwithdirectionswrittenonabarnapkinandabadpen.Withthat,weknewwewereofftoagoodstartthrough6inchesoffreshsnowinthearea.FindingthemainroadwasasdifficultasfindingthetownofChama,becausethesnowconditions

gotworseaswepushedeastward.Luckwaswithus,asIhadrentedafour-wheeldrivevehicle,sochurningthroughthesnowandicepresentedfewproblems,anditaddedtothesenseofadventure.WefoundthesiteoftheoldradarbasewiththehelpofMabel’sfriendChristelle,whohadonce

datedanairmanwhohadworkedthere.ChristellestayedinChamawhenherboyfriend,RonaldDrews,wentontoAntigo,Wisconsin,toworkatanotherradarsite,the676AC&Wradarbase,untilitwasdeactivatedin1960.Wefoundanoldroadleadingupthedrivewaytothebase,butachainacrossthegatemeantthatwe

hadtohikeintotheabandonedstation,andthesnowstormwasgettingworse.Eddecidedtostayinthevehicle,asweparkedattheedgeoftheroad,sothatTickelandIcouldhikeupthesnow-covereddirtroad.Onceatthetopwewereamazedtoseehowmanybuildingswerestillstanding.Notsureofwhenthe

Page 161: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

basewasdeactivated,wepokedaroundandtookphotographsofeverybuildinguntilstumblingontofreshtracksofalargecat.Withwindfromthenorthandtheweathergoingsouth,wedecidedtoheadwestbacktoDulcé.BetweenTickelandmyself,wetookseveralrollsoffilmandlaterthatnightwemappedoutwhatwehadseen.

ThenextresearchstopwasacrosscountryatMaxwellAirForceBaseinMontgomery,Alabama,totheAirForceHistoricalArchivesandmy(Scott)firstvisitwithArchieDeFante.Heexaminedthephotos,andwecouldnotfindanyAirForceradarsiteinnorthernNewMexicoduringthattimeframe.Duringmy(Scott)five-daystay,hefoundreferencetothesitesinanAtomicEnergytransferfile.ThesebaseswereoriginallyestablishedundertheAtomicEnergyCommissionfortheprotectiontheAtomicEnergyLabs.

Wenowhadonebaseidentified,butweneededforfindtwomoretoverifySteinman’sclaim.Aftermonthsofwork,thehelpofMaxwellAirForcebase,andtwomoretripstoNewMexico,wehadfoundallthree.Thenexttaskwastofindoutiftheywereoperationalin1948.ThefirststationwefoundinthesnowatElVadocarriedadiscrepancyastotheactivationdate.OneAtomicEnergyCommissiondocumentclaimeda1946startup,whereastheU.S.AirForcereportedafoundingdateof1950.

Theothertwositesweredocumentedasgoingonlinein1946,buttheAirForcedocumentsalsoshowed1950astheirfirstyear.Wewereconfused,andatthistimewedecidedtolookatthequarterlyreportsofthebases.Wefoundthefollowing:

ElVado,767AC&W,wasoriginallytheLosAlamosRadarinstallationtoprotectLosAlamos.Builtin1946,butnotatthelocationwehadexploredinthewinterof1996/1997.TheoriginalsitewasbuiltneartheElVadoLake.ThelakewasbuiltforLosAlamosasapowerplantwithonesingleGeneralElectricHydroGeneratortosupplypowertoLosAlamos.ThisradarsitewasknownastheLosAlamosRadarFacility,latertheTierraAmarillaRadarsite,andfinallytheElVado767AC&WRadarsite.Theconstructionwasstartedinearly1946undertheAtomicEnergyCommissionasa“MobileRadarSite”(butnottrulymobileasonthebackoftrucks)andlaterin1950,whentheAtomicEnergyCommissionturnedthesesitesovertotheAirForce,itwasmovedtothelocationwhereitstandsinruinstoday.Thus,the1950datewaswhentheUSAFtookcontroloftheradarstationsandexplainswhytheyreportthatdateastheoriginationdate.

Thelocalssaytheinstallationwasacomplexradarsitewithpersonnelbilletedintentsatthebeginninguntilbarrackscouldbebuilt,andwhoseremainscanstillbefound.Thecomplexwefoundinthelate1999andearly2000timeframewasinfactbuiltin1950asapermanentradarsitebutwasrenderedredundantin1957whentheAirForcedevelopedthenewDEW(DistantEarlyWarning)RadarLineinnorthernCanada.Thiswouldmean,byanystandard,thatwefoundaradarbasethathadtobeoperationalin1948.

TheotherbaseswefoundwereMoriartyandContinentalDivide,butthesewerenotoperationaluntil1950or1951,whichwouldruleoutanyparticipationintheflyingsaucerreportednearAztecin1948.

TheMoriartyRadarBasewasnorthofwhatnowisInterstate40,notnearthetownofMoriarty,whichissouthoftheinterstate.TheAirForcehadawayofnaminglocationstothenearesttownorlandmark.TheremainscanstillbeseentodayonHighway41northtowardStanley,withtheoldbaseontheright.Thisbasehadthedesignationof768AC&W.

Finally,theoldContinentalDivideRadarBase(TopO’theWorld)wassoutheastofFt.Wingate.ThispredatedInterstate40byalmosttwodecades.TheoldbaseislocatedsouthonN.M.Route464southfromthecurrentI-40,andwhereremainscanstillbefoundabout2mileseastofthestateroute.IftravelingwestboundontheInterstate,Route464istheexitjustwestofThoreau.Thisbasehadthedesignationof769AC&W.

Whenwefirstuncoveredtheseoldradarsites,KarlPflockwasthefirsttojumponthebandwagonbysayinghehadknownaboutthesebasesforyears.Heclaimedhehadevendonehistoricalresearch.

Page 162: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

However,whenweaskedforthedocumentsonthebasesandrequestedthede-classificationonthesethreesites,therewasnorecordofanyonereviewingthefilessincetheGeneralAccountingOfficetookchargeofthemin1973.OurswerethefirstciviliansignaturesonthereleasecardsatMaxwell,nottomentionthatthesefileshadbeenmisplacedformanyyears.

Sowithoneradarbasefound,someofBillSteinman’sandWendelleStevens’sclaimsinUFOCrashatAztecwerevalidated;however,thisiscertainlynotconclusiveproofoftheAztecflyingsaucerstory;itisinfactaninterestingsidebartoconsiderthat,ifaflyingsaucerhadbeenintheareain1948,itmaywellhavebeendetectedbyradar.Becausewehavethemapsoftheairspacein1948fromtheAirForceandtheAtomicEnergyCommission,thisareawasthen,astoday,restrictedairspace.Anythingflyingthroughitwouldcertainlyhavecreatedanationalsecurityissue.

RadarBaseNotesShortlyafterwelocatedtheElVadobaseandconfirmedthatone“mobilesite”waslocatednextEl

Vadolakedam,I(Scott)spoketoBillSteinmanagain.Asexcitedasheseemedtobeaboutthediscovery,weboththoughtaninterviewwithsomeonewhohadseenthebasewouldbeofinteresttoourresearch.

LeeCranelivesinAztecandwasthefirstpersonweencounteredasapotentialwitnesstothe1948radarsites.LeeworkedintheareadoingworkfortheNationalLeadCompany,whichhejoinedin1944.Leehadworkedalloverthecountry,andonestopincludedastint5milesfromtheElVadodam.Helivedinthatareain1950whenthenewradarbasewasstilloperational.Whileheneversawtheradarbase,heateseveralnightsaweekatthedinerlocatedatthedam.LeesaidthatAirForcepersonneloftencamedowntoeatandsometimesevenbroughtfreshlykilledducksthathadbeenknockedoutoftheairbythepowerfulmicro-waveradarbeingusedattheirfacility.3Leerememberedthattheairmenwouldactuallyasktheownertofinishcookingthebirdsaftertheducksflewintothepowerfulradarwavesofthefacilityanddroppedhalf-cookedtotheground.

MoreCrashSiteEvidenceDuringScott’sfirstvisittothecrashsiteinthelate1980s,henoticedotheranomaliesotherthanthe

concretepad.Forexample,manydeadtreesonthetopofthemesaappearedasthoughtheyhadbeenblowndownorploweddownbysometypeofforce.Sometreesweremissinglimbs,andotherdeadtreeslayasthoughflattenedbysomenaturalforce.Thescenewasphotographedatthattimefromseveralanglesandcomparedwithothermesasforthesakeofcomparison.

Scottrecalls:Ihikedovertothenextmesaandfoundnootherdeadtreesordestroyedvegetationanywaysimilartothetopofthemesaatthecrashsite.Duringthenextfewyearsofmyresearch,Ihavetraveledtomanyothermesasinthearea,goingasfarsouthwestasLargoCanyon.Lookingatweatherpatternsofthearea.ThistreephenomenononHartCanyonMesawasunique.

YearslateranaerialviewofHartCanyonMesaalsoshowedthepeculiarartificialarrangementofnewlyplantedtrees.

Duringthe“MovingtheCraft”tripwithBillMetzgerin2008,we(Scott,Suzanne,andBillandPamMetzger)noticedafterBillandMikeArnoldflewoverthesitethatthemesahasauniqueappearancewhenviewedfromtheair,asdescribedinChapter10.Onenight,whenwereturnedtothehotelinAztec,Billnoticedthatwhenhetransferredthepicturesontohislaptop,itappearedasthoughanewtreelinehadbeenplantedeastofwheretheobjecthadcrashedorlanded.Billbroughtthisunusualstraightlineoftreestoourattentionthatnightaswesatandatedinner.Onhiscomputer,thephotoshowedalineoftreesthatwereuniformandsymmetrical,obviouslyplantedinapatternthatMotherNaturewouldneverhave

Page 163: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

givenus!ThiswasthissomethingwehadnotanticipatedorlookedforwhenwesentBillupintheairplanewithMikeArnold.Weweresimplytryingtophotographthesitetogetanaerialpictureofthecrashsitetouseasapossiblebookcoveraswellastodocumenttheroadsleadinguptothesiteastheymighthavebeenin1948andtheirconfigurationtoday.

So,whytheperfectpatternofthetrees?Couldthisgobacktotheformerintelligenceofficerwhoclaimedthat,whentheirteamgottothesitetocleanitup,theywerenotonlygoingtogetridofthelargetracksfromearthmovingequipment,butalsotore-landscapethesite?Plantingnewtreesthatwouldgrowslowlyinthedesertwouldbesomethingonemightdotocoverupthetraceswherealargecraftcrashedorlandedonthissite.Whetherthecrashwasaflyingsauceroranexperimentalaircraft,theorderwouldhavebeentocleanupthecrashsiteandtosterilizeit.Thetreesatthesitearecottonwoodsandpiñontrees,bothofwhichgrowatslowratesintherelativelyaridclimateofNewMexico.

PhysicalTraceEvidenceAlongwithbothScottandSuzanneRamsey,TedPhillipswasalsoaspeakeratthe2008Aztec

Symposium.Tedhasbeendoingscientificresearchofflyingsaucerlandingsites,allegedcrashsites,andhasrecordedphysicaltraceevidencefordecades.

TedworkedwithAirForceastronomyconsultantDr.J.AllenHynekonsomeofthemostfascinatingflyingsaucercasesinhistory,untilHynek’sdeathinApril27,1986.TedworkedontheLonnieZamoraSocorrocase,afterPoliceOfficerZamorawitnessedaflyingsaucerlandatthesouthedgeSocorro,andhesawtwooccupantsgetbackintothecraftandtakeoffagain,flyingtothenorthwestashewatched.Thiscasehasbeenwidelyinvestigated,butnotinthegreatdetailthatwasusedinApril1964.We(ScottandSuzanne)havebeentotheSocorrositeseveraltimes,thelasttimein2008withUFOresearchersDennisandDebbieBalthaser.ZamoradiedonNovember2,2009,butthiscaseremainsacredibleandfavoritecaseformanyflyingsaucerresearchers.TedPhillipswasatSocorrowithHyneksoonafterZamora’ssightinginApril1964,inwhichunquestionableevidenceofaflyingsaucerwasfound,includinglandingindentationsandburnedgroundcover.

TedPhillipsisthedirectoroftheCenterforPhysicalTraceResearch,foundedin1998.Ted’scareerbeganwithhimassistingHynekresearchingtheSocorrosighting/landing,andlaterTedjoinedHynekasaresearchassociatein1968untilHynek’sdeathin1986.ItwasatHynek’ssuggestionthatTeddecidedtospecializeinUFOorflyingsaucertracephysicalevidence.

Duringhiscareer,TedhasparticipatedinmeetingsandpresentationsattheAmericanInstituteofAeronauticsandtheAstronauticsAerospaceSciencemeetingalongwithHynekandJacquesVallee,aswellasmeetingwiththeUnitedNationsSecretary-GeneralattheUnitedNationsinNewYorkwithformerastronautGordonCooper.Hehaspersonallyinvestigatedmorethan600potentialflyingsaucerlandingcasesinhiscareer.

OnFridayMarch28,2008,I(Scott)tookspeakersStanFriedman,BritishUFOresearcherTimothyGood,KenStorchoftheOklahomaUFOParanormalTeam,andPhoenixLightswitnessMikeFortsontothecrashsite.ExceptforFriedman,theothersnevervisitedthesite.Friedmanhadbeentothesitedozensoftimes,asIhaddraggedhimtheremanytimestohelphimunderstandmyresearch.Aswewalkedaroundthesite,weexplainedwhatwehaduncoveredandseeninthepast,showingthemtheconcreteslab,theknocked-downtrees,brokentreelimbs,andsomeotherout-of-placeitemssuchasK-rationscansthatwefoundburiedbeneath18inchesofthesiltwhenweweremappingthesitewithmetaldetectorsbackintheearly1990s.

IexplainedthatK-rationsandC-rationswerestandardmilitarydistributioninthefieldduringWWIIaswellastheKoreanconflictandthroughtheearlystagesoftheVietnamWar.This,ofcourse,wascircumstantialevidenceatbest,sinceIfoundthattheAlamoMilitarySurplusstoreinFarmingtonsold

Page 164: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

theserationsassurplusforhunterswellintotheearly1980s.Oncethecannedrationsreachedtheirexpirationdate,theyweresoldtosurplusstoresandcampingoutfittersthroughouttheUnitedStates.Today,theoldrationshavebeenreplacedbyMREs(MealsReadytoEat).

WealsofoundM1Garandclips—metal8-roundclipsusedforholding30-06ammo.TheM1GarandwasusedbythemilitarystartingwithWWIIandthroughtheKoreanconflict.Thissemi-automaticriflewouldhavebeenstandardissuefortroopsin1948.TheserifleswereusedintrainingupthroughVietnambutwerebeingreplacedbytheGarand’scousintheM-14,whichwascapableofselectivefireandwasfedbyaremovableboxmagazine.

TheM1riflemanshovedaGarandclipdownintothereceiveroftheweaponandfiredeightshots,afterwhichthemetalclipwouldbeejected,makinga“Ping”sound,leavingtheactionopenforinsertionofanotherloadedclip.Iwonderedafterwefoundseveraloftheseemptyclips:Unlessthelittleguysonboardthecrafthadbecomeunruly,whyweretheresomanyclipsonthemesa?Ofcourse,theM1riflewassoldassurplustotheAmericanpublicafterthewar,anditstillisapopularhuntingriflein30-06,averypopularcaliberforhuntingdeerandelk.Asguncollectors,SuzanneandI(Scott)knewthepopularityoftheseweapons,sothismadeperfectsensethatwemightseetheleavingsofgenerationsofhuntersinHartCanyon.HartCanyonisGermanfor“deercanyon.”Theonlyquestioniswhytheseclipswerediscarded,asM1ownersretrievetheemptyclipstobereloaded.

WealsofoundachewingtobaccopouchfromtheBeechnutCompany.Itwasaheavyfoilpouch,heavierthantheMylar/foilpackagessoldtoday.Weburiedthepouchagain,andafterphonecallstothemakersofBeechnutproducts,weretoldthatinthelate1940sandearly1950sthepouchesweremadeofheavyaluminumfoiltopreservefreshness.Withoutanyotherinformation,thepouchwasnotadefinitivepieceofevidenceforourpurposes.

ArtReed,whowassenttothecrashsitein1948to“cleanupanaccident,”specificallytoldusthatanytrashtheyfoundwasburied18inchesunderthegroundatopthemesa.4Althoughhuntersandhikersmaydothesamething,itseemsmorethancoincidental.

AztecresidentHankKnowltononcecontactedsomefriendsintheareaafterSuzanneandI(Scott)attendedtheAztecUFOSymposiumin2004andclaimedthatmydatesforthecrashwerewrong.Hank’sfamilyownsthelandnexttothecrashsite.Hankwashelpfultoourresearch,buthetoldanumberofpeoplethatImusthavegottenthedateswrong,asheownedthelandadjacenttothelandingorcrashsite,andhehimselfwasoutthereeverydayduringthattimeframe.

Thiswasaseriousmatterforus,andIcalledKnowltononeSaturdaymorninginApril2005andspokewithhimforsometime.5Hank,ashetoldmetocallhim,wasaverynicemanandatruepillarofthecommunityintheFourCornersarea.Hankexplainedtomethatin1948hehadjustpurchasedthelandfromHaroldDunningandthattherewasnowayaflyingsauceroranythingelse,forthatmatter,landedonthatmesa.Heexplainedtomethathewasouttherealmosteverymorningat5a.m.andoftenstayedoutthereallday.“Nowayacraftwastakenoffthatmesaorevenwasonthatmesabackin1948—noway,nohow!”hesaid.

Hankalsosaidthathehadheardtherumorsofacrashedorlandedflying“something,”butitcouldnothavebeenin1948.HeaskedmerepeatedlyifIwassureofmydates.IexplainedagaintoHankthatalltheresearchweweredoinginfactshowed1948asthecorrectdate.HankcertainlyknewDougNolandandBillFergusonandspokehighlyofthem.Hankconfirmedthatneitherofthosetwomenwouldtellmealie,butthedateofMarch1948wasnotcorrect.Hankalsosaidhebelievedsomethinghadhappenedthere,butnotonthedatesweestablished.

WhenSuzanneandIgotbacktoNorthCarolina,wediscussedthisproblemforanumberofdays.BecausetheKnowltonfamilyhadlongrootsintheareaandweresohighlyrespectedbyeveryone,includingSuzanneandme,weknewyetanothertripbacktotheFourCornersareawasintheworks.

Page 165: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

WecontactedDeAmberMcCaleb(nowMontoya),whoworkedfortheSanJuanTitleCompany,andaskedhertopulltherealestaterecordsforHankKnowlton’slandtractandwhenthetransferoftitletookplace.Wereturnedlaterinthedayand,sureenough,HankhadindeedpurchasedthelandfromHarold“Hy”Dunning—butnotin1948!TherecordsclearlyshowedthatHankandhiswifeboughtthelandfromDunningin1952,andthatstartedtoexplaintheconfusioninthedates.Wegladlypaidthe$50feeforthelandsearchandheadedbacktothehotel.

AfterarrivingbackinNorthCarolina,wecalledHanktotellhimoftheresearchwehaddone.6Hank,gentlemanthatheis,pausedforamomentandthensaid,“Ithinkyouarecorrect.Itwas1952;wedidnotliveinthisareain1948.”Thisisacommentuponthefallibilityofallhumanmemoryandthereasonhistoriansmustgototherecordsforverificationoffacts.HankKnowltondeservescreditforbeingupfrontaboutadmittingthemistake.

SothecrashsitewasnotownedbyKnowltonin1948,andwehadbrushedasideanotherobstaclethatmighthavewreckedourthesis.ThismeansthesitewasownedbyHaroldDunning,or“Hy,”asthelocalscalledhim.TheelderDunningdiedbeforewecouldinterviewhim.TheDunningranchhouseisnolongernearthesite,andhissonlivesinnearbynorthAztecnearCedarHill.ThesonhasmadeitclearthathedoesnotwishtodiscusstheAztecIncidentanymorethanhisfatherwantedtotalkaboutitwithSteinmaninthe1980s.

Athoroughreviewofthephysicalevidenceexaminedtodatemaybecircumstantialandnotconclusive;however,wheneverythingisaddedtogether,apersuasivecaseemerges.Evenweretherenofirst-personinterviewswiththosewhowereonthemesathatMarchmorningin1948,themysteryroadupontothemesa,thepeculiarconcretepad,theburiedmilitary-relatedartifacts,andtheplantingofindigenoustreesinrowstoreplacethosethatwereallflattenedatthesametime—allofthisleadsthereadertoconsiderthatanunusualeventcertainlyoccurredhere.NowitistimetomakethefinalcasefortheAztecsaucercrashandrecovery.

Page 166: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

16

Conclusions

TheAztecflyingsaucercrashonMarch25,1948,wasthefirstglimpsebyAmericansofapossibleextraterrestrialvisitation,astorybrokenbyafamousHollywoodcolumnistwhosebookBehindtheFlyingSaucerswasoneofthebest-sellersofthe1950s.Almostasquicklyasthebookshotupthesalescharts,theviciousattemptstodiscreditthestoryanditssourcesbecameavendettathatessentiallyburiedtheAztecstoryasahoax,whichitremainedfordecades.

AswelookatthehistoryofAztec,andaftermanyyearsofpainstakingresearch,wenowdrawreasonableandclearconclusionsastowhathappenedinMarch1948.Thischapterisverymuchasclosingargumentstoajury—ourfinalargumentsconcerningthebiggestandmosttime-consumingquesttheseauthorseverembarkedupon.

Somemaywonderwhythreesaneandsuccessfulbusinesspeopleandeducatorswoulddevoteasmuchtimeandmoneyaswehavepursuingaonce-discreditedflyingsaucertaleandwritingapossiblycontroversialbook.TheanswerliesinthefactthatnoneoftheclaimsoriginallymadeagainsttheAztecIncidentwereeverproperlyresearchedorverified.StartingwithaNewMexicofolktale,wefoundthatallthegenuineevidencepointedtoarealevent.Aswegatheredinterviewsanddocuments,respectedhistoricalresearchersjoinedinthediscoveries,helpingustomakethisbookascompleteandaccurateaspossible.Perhapsthisbookbeganasapersonalresearchproject,butovertheyearsithasbecomeabookwrittenbyusandbymanyotherswholookedattheevidenceandwerepersuadedthattheAztecIncidentmayhavebeenoneofthemostimportantoccurrencesinmodernhistory.

Chapter1concentratesontheearlymorninghoursofMarch25,1948,withthediscoveryof100-footdiameterflyingsaucerlyingonthemesaaboveHartCanyoneastofAztec,NewMexico.Thestorywasgathereddirectlythroughinterviewswiththeoilfieldworkers,particularlyDougNoland,whowerethereonthemesathatchillyMarchmorning,andactuallysawandtouchedthemetalliccraft.I(Scott)havenotbeenabletofindonepersoninthe23yearsofourresearchwhohadanegativethingtosayaboutthesewitnessesortheircharacter.

DougNolandwasacommunityleaderwholivedinMancos,Colorado,beforemakingAztechishome.HeworkeddayandnightintheoilpatchaswellasforthecommunityofAztec.Laterinlife,hemovedtoLasVegas,Nevada,whereheoperatedasuccessfulassaybusinessuntilhisretirement.WehavetheaudiotapeswhereherecountshislifestoryandwhathesawinMarch1948.

AlthoughDoug’ssupervisor,BillFerguson,diedbeforewecouldinterviewhim,hischaracteralsostooduptoscrutinythroughothersinterviewed.TheoilfieldworkersandarearesidentswhoknewBillneverhadabadwordtosayabouthim.LikeDoug,BillrevealedhisAztecknowledgetoveryfewpeople,apparentlyadheringtowhateveroaththeworkerssworetothemilitaryonthatdayin1948.BillcertainlywaspresentonthemesawithDougNoland.

KenFarleywasanotherlivingwitnesswhorecalledhisexperienceandalsovalidatedDougNoland’saccountingreatdetail—althoughthefirsttimemyfriendRandyBarnesandI(Scott)interviewedhim,IfeltalittleheartburnwhenKenmentioned“twopoliceofficers”atthecrashsite.AfterwetalkedwithKenfortwohours,Itoldhimthatgettingtwopoliceofficersouttothelocationofthecrashsiteeventoday,letalonein1948,wouldbeamajoreffortoflawenforcement,butKenassuredusthattherewere

Page 167: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

twouniformedofficersonthemesathatmorning.Then,whenwesubsequentlyinterviewedDougNoland,wegottheindependentconfirmationthattherewereindeedtwopoliceofficersthere.DougturnedouttobetheAlka-Seltzertomyheartburn.

KeepinginmindthatKenwasayoungmanjustpassingthroughtheCedarHillandAztecareathemorningoftheincident,therewasnowaythetwowitnessescouldhavebeenincollusion.KenhadnevermetDoug,beforeorafterAztec.Theirrecollectionswereindependent,unique,andidentical.

Thewitnesseswereall100-percentcertainthatwhattheysawthatdaywasnotaconventionalaircraft,norwasitaprototypeAirForcedesignthatstrayedoffcourseandcrashedonthehighplainsofNewMexico.Basedonclearwitnessmemories,thereisnodoubtthattheysawalandedflyingsaucerfromoriginsunknown.

Whowerethetwopoliceofficersonthemesathatday?IthinkitisverysafetosaythatCubaPoliceOfficerManuelSandovalwascertainlythere,buttheidentityoftheotherofficerisstillamystery.Thisisnotthefinalwordonthelawenforcementofficerswhosawthesaucer.Wehaveinterviewedfamilymembersofthepotentialofficers,andwehaveagreedthatmoreresearchisneededtoputthesepiecesofthepuzzleintoplace.WhenweovercomethereluctanceoffamilymemberstospeakaboutAztec,wewilleventuallyknowthenamesofbothofficerswhowerethere.

OneofourmostimpressivemeetingswaswithVirgilRiggs.Virgilhasbecomenotonlyanimportantpartofthisbookbutalsoadearfriend.AsdocumentedinChapter3,VirgilwasbasedinEnglandduringtheearly1960swhenamannicknamed“SamBass”befriendedhim.ThetwobecamegoodfriendsafterSamsawtheNewMexicoStateUniversitystickerthatVirgil’ssisterhadsentforhimtoputonhiscar.ItturnedoutthatSamknewalotaboutAztec,whichamazedVirgil.

Thetwoevenstoodupateachother’sweddings.Sam,whoserealnamewasDonaldBass,confessedtoVirgilonenightthattheAztecIncidentwasarealeventandthathehadbeenapartofit.AtthispointtheoriginalbookbyFrankScullyhadbeenoutforabout14years,andthestoryhadbeensabotagedandlongforgottenbyeventhemostseriousflyingsaucerbuffwhenBassapproachedVirgil.Additionally,DonaldknewdetailsaboutthecrashsitethatScullyhadneverdisclosed.

BasshadbeenintheAirForceformanyyearsbuthisgradewasonlyE-3,whichseemsunlikelyforsomeoneofthatlongservice.AnE-3USAFrankintheUSAFisthatofairmanfirstclass,andequaltotheArmyrankofcorporal.DonaldtoldVirgilhisrankwastheresultof“talkingtoomuch”inearlieryears,andhealludedthatAztecwaspartofthereasonthathefoundhimselfintrouble.1

Yearslater,Virgilmovedontoanewassignment,andDonaldwentontohisdestinyinVietNam,wherehewaskilledbyahitandrundriverwhilereturningtobaseonenight.HadBassagaintalkedtoomuch,orwasthisacoincidencethathewaskilledaftertellingVirgilhisstoryabouttheAztecflyingsaucerincident?

Atfirstmeeting,wewereimpressedwithVirgil’scalmandpolitenature.Heisagentlemanandarespectedengineeringprofessionalwhohasanassociate’sdegreeinengineeringtechnologyfromNewMexicoStateUniversityandabachelor’sdegreefromColumbiaUniversity.HeretiredfromBabcockandWilcox.

BasedonwhatVirgiltoldus,Bassknewalotaboutthecrashsite,thetimeframeittooktoremovetheflyingsaucer,andabouthowmanymenwereinvolved,andthiswasthestoryastoldtoVirgilintheearly1960s,longbeforewewerestartingtodosometalksatvariousconferencesin2000.VirgilfirsttalkedtoSuzanneandme(Scott)beforeweeverspokeattheAztecUFOSymposiumin2004.Inthatfirstyearofourpresentations,VirgilgotupandaddressedtheaudiencewiththestoryBasshadtoldhim.

Untilthedateofthatsymposium,Virgilwasnotprivytoanyofourresearch.AsSuzanneandIbeganoursearchforDonaldBass,aswellastofindoutwhatwasgoingonatWelfordAirForceBaseinthosedays,wefoundthatthebasewascertainlyhometonuclearweapons,andtheclassificationofinformation

Page 168: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

madefindinganydetailedrecordsverydifficult.WewerenotdestinedtolearnwhetherBass’stalkaboutAztecaffectedhismilitarycareer,butwesearchedforhimnonetheless.

Virgil’srecordscheckedout100percent,asverifiedbytheworkdone,notjustbySuzanneandme,butalsoseveralothers.Virgil’sDD-214andallrecordsprovidedbyhimhavebackedupwherehewasstationedandatwhattimeframe,andbythedutyrostershekept.Virgil’spictureappearsinthisbook,asdoesapictureofDonaldBassasshownintheWelfordyearbook,alsoconfirmingthatAirmanBasswasthereatthesametime.

DonaldBassknewtoomuchabouttheAztecflyingsaucerstorytobemakingupdetails.WhathetoldVirgilwehadalreadylearnedinourfirsttwodecadesofinvestigation,andwegainedaccesstomaterialthatBasswouldnothaveknowninthe1960s.NoneofhisinformationcouldhavecomefromFrankScully,evenhadhereadthatbook.

Chapter4isnotabouttheAztecsaucer,butitwasamasssightingseenbyhundredsofresponsiblecitizensintheFarmingtonarea.Outsideofthelocalnewspaper,thestorywasdebunkedbyastatepatrolofficerwhotoldthepressitwasflufffromcottonwoodtrees.Thispatrolmanknewbetterbecausehehadflyingsaucersightingsofhisown.

Now,Chapter5:ThereisnodoubtthatJ.P.Cahnconnedthepublicintheearly1950saswelldoinghisbesttoruinSilasNewtonandhisfriendFrankScully;LeoGeBauerwasjustcollateraldamage.WecannotemphasizetoostronglythatCahnwasfuriouswithScullyfornotsellingtheflyingsaucerstorytohimtouseforhisownpurposes.Cahnalreadyhadanartist-readybookcoverforhisownAztecflyingsaucerstory,authoredbyhimself.ItwaslittlewonderthatamanwithCahn’spersonalitywouldseekrevengeagainstthosewhothwartedhim.

IfScullyhadsoldCahnthestory,itisinconceivablethatCahnwouldhavepursuedavendettaagainstNewton,ashedidwhenhelearnedthathewasarejectedsuitorandacedoutofastorythathethoughthedeserved.Hadheownedthestory,CahnwouldneverhavewrittenalettertoJ.EdgarHooveraskingtheFBIdirectortoinvestigateScullyandthesaucer.

Hewasanonlychild,bornofprivilege,anditwaseitherhiswayorthehighway,anditbecameatollroadasCahnrelentlesslypursuedScully’ssources.NewtonandGeBauerspentalotofmoneydefendingthemselvesagainstafrivolouslawsuitandfalsecharges.Wekeepinmindthatfourfederaljudgesrefusedtohearthecaseagainsttwomen,althoughthetwowerefinallyconvictedinDenver’sdistrictcourtonbehalfofHermanFladerwho,atthetime,waspromotinghisownspurious“healthmachine”schemes.

Fladerwassellingsharesinhishealthmachinethatwasnothingmorethanaschemetoattractinvestorsintodumpingmoneyintoanelectricaldevicethatdidnothing,somethingcommontothatera.Newtoneventhrewin$250,000tobackFlader,asgoodfaithinreturnforFladerinvestingmoneyintowhattheprosecutorcalledadoodlebug.Atleastthedoodlebugfoundoilandwater,accordingtothosefewcustomerswhowerefinallyallowedtotestify.

Overtheyears,debunkershaveusedCahn’s1952TrueMagazinearticletopaintNewtonandGeBaueroutasconmenwithoneslap-dashstrokeofthebrush—thoughtheentirestorywasactuallyawhitewashfromthebeginning,orchestratedbyJ.P.Cahn,withcheaplead-basedpaintthrownintothebargain!

CahnisawardedanA+forruiningthereputationsofafewbusinesspeople,buthismotiveshaveseldombeenquestioneduntilnow.HowdidaguylikeCahngettheattentionofJ.EdgarHooveroveraflyingsaucerbook?HowdidCahnpersuadeHoovertoinvestigatethiscaseinfourstates(Colorado,NewMexico,Arizona,andUtah)?CahnwassomehowabletogetHooversoworkedupthatfiveFBIofficesbecameinvolvedinaminorcivilmatter.Here,theFBIhadonlytheevidenceofachecktransportedoverstatelinesandcashedintoabusinessaccount,andthiswastheonlysubstanceofacasethatledtoaconviction,withnosentenceleviedsaveanorderforpaymentofcourtcosts.

Page 169: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

HoovergotthetipfromCahn,butmaybeHooverwasalreadyonthetrailoftheflyingsaucerscientistsmasqueradingasDr.Gee.ProbablywhentheAirForceOSIwascrawlingallovertheSouthwestin1950,lookingforNewtonandradioadsalesmanGeorgeKoehler,themotivewasnotsomuchtosquelchtheAztecstory,buttofindoutwhoingovernmentservicewasleakingsecrets.

Intheend,CahndidnotcareaboutthetruthbehindtheAztecIncident;heonlycaredaboutpaddinghisrésuméandhisego.Helostonbothaccounts,anddiedaloneandunhappybyallaccounts.

InChapter7wemakeourpointadamantlyclear:TheskepticsandthedebunkersofAztecwereprovednevertohavedoneanybasicresearch,andtheyallreliedupontheJ.P.Cahnmagazinearticlemixedwiththeirownbias.NonewemethadevenbeentoAztecorthecrashsite,untilweeithertookthemormetthemthere.

Westillgete-mailsandoccasionalphonecallsfrompeoplewhohavereadanunsupported,fictionalarticleontheInternetandfeelcompelledtoaskwhetherwehavereadit,asthoughthecontentsofsuchfantasyarticlesareworthadevalued2015dollaratthatpoint.

ThemainnoisemakersonAztec,aswesoelegantlypointedoutinthechapter,neversupplynewinformationand,inmostcases,hadneverbeenwithinahundredmilesofAztec.Iftheauthorsofthisbookcouldchangeourstoryaseasilyasthedebunkerschangetheirs,wewouldbeleftwithzerocredibility.

Claimssuchas“HartCanyonRoaddidnotexistbackin1948”and“SilasNewtonandLeoGeBauerwereconvictedoffraud;therefore,theAztecstoryisfalse”havebeendismissedthroughourmethodicalresearch.Keepinmindthatsomeofthesedebunkingclaimscamefromascientistwhoseownmindwasalreadymadeup,anditremindsusoftheearlydaysofflyingsaucerreportswhenscientistDonaldMenzeldebunkedeverysaucerclaimwithexplanationsthattodayareconsideredembarrassinglystupid,evenbythosewhochoosenottobelieveinflyingsaucers.

Weexposedourfair-hairedfriend,thelateKarlPflock,whoclaimedthateverythingaboutAztechadtobebunk,basedonhiscareerintheIntelligencefield.Wewereabletoprovideprooftorefuteeveryoneofhisdebunkingclaims,soIguessweknockedhimforthatproverbialArkansasLoopeverytimehecameuptobat.

Thedisinclinationofthedebunkerstovisitthecrashsite,somethingthatwouldhavemeantnomorethanaone-dayvisittotheFourCornersarea,hasprovedtheundoingoftheprofessionalskeptics(debunkers).ItseemsthatneitherthemembersoftheIntelligencecommunitynortheircounterpartsinthescientificcommunityhavetoleavetheirofficecubiclesinordertoprovetheirrepetitivetheses.Theyfindthatamade-upstoryiseasilybelievedbyapublicdesperatelywantingtotrustitsgovernment.

WehadthestatementsfromoneofourdevotedIntelligencepeople,whoclaimedtohaveresearchedtheroadsleadingintothecrashsite.HislamestatementthatnobodycouldremoveacrashedflyingsaucerwithoutbeingseenparadingitthroughthetownofAztecfoundhisargumentdemolishedwhenhewastoldthattheroadsintheareawerereconfiguredinthe1950stoaccommodateexpansionoftheoilfields,aswellasincreasepublicaccesstotheChacoCanyonruins.

So,ourtop-notchIntelguyhadbeenlookingatRandMcNally’sAtlasfromthe1950sandnotfrom1948.Generally,I(Scott)thinktheAmericanIntelligencecommunityisasgoodasanyintheworld,andIhavealwayssaidthat,especiallyafterreadingthousandsofdeclassifiedpagesofreports.Ouragenciesareextremelygood,butsomehow,whentheyaredealingwithflyingsaucersightings,landings,crashes,theseagenciesgointofulldisinformationmode,debunkingandridiculinganyonewhodarestogiverespectabilitytotherealityofflyingsaucers.

Others,aswestatedinthechapter,haveexpressedallmannerofwildandcrazyopinionsonAztec;however,wefoundnoneofthesetobebasedonsolidorverifiableinformation,andmostofthecommunicationsweresopitifulthatwehavedecidednottoborethereaderwithstorieswethrowintoour“rantandrave”basketunderthedesk.Thefringetheoristscanexpressthemselvesinanotherhobby

Page 170: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

andnotwasteourresearchtimeunlesstheycontributesomethingsubstantiveinreturn.InChapter8welookedatwhatwasgoingoninNewMexicoafterWWII.NewMexicowasahotbed

fortheneweraoftechnology.Notmuchhaschanged,asNewMexicoisstillamajorcenterforscientificresearchasthisbookiswritten.EarlytestsoftheV-2rocketswhosespawnwouldeventuallytakeustothemoonandback,GermanscientistswhoweresmuggledoverfromGermanyafterthewar,jetfightertesting,advancedradar,andthefruitsoftheManhattanProject—allwereinfullfloodastheColdWarheatedup.TheworkofLosAlamoswasatanall-timehigh,boostedbeyondwartimeemploymentfiguresseenduringtheatombombdevelopment.SandiaNationalLabswerealsoexpandingfasterthanourcurrentnationaldebt.

Flyingsaucerswerebeingseenbythemilitary,trustworthycivilservants,policeofficers,andcivilianresidentseverywhereinNewMexico.Aboutone-fifthofNewMexicoskiesweredesignatedasrestrictedairspacein1948andeventothecurrentday.AnythingflyingoverLosAlamoswouldhavecertainlybeenshotdown,aswellasanythingflyingovertheradarbasespositionedinallsectorsofthestate.

EightmonthsbeforeAztec,theArmyAirCorps/fledglingU.S.AirForcedealtwiththeRoswellcrashorcrashes(orpossibleshoot-downs),andthenthepuzzlingmoveof509thBombGroupCommanderColonelButchBlanchardingivingoutapressreleasetothateffectcausedripplesthroughoutthemilitaryestablishment.Now,eightmonthslater,theAirForcehadanexperiencedteamtobeusedinthecaseoffuturerecoveries,andtheywerebetterpreparedtokeepthesecuritylidclampeddowniftheyeverhadtoretrieveadownedunknowncraft.

WearecertainfromallreportswehaveexaminedthatboththeU.S.ArmyandU.S.AirForcewereinvolvedintheAztecrecovery.Theseparationbetweenthetwoserviceswasstillverynew,soajointeffortmadeperfectsense.Rememberthatthespectatorsatthecrashsitesaidtheyrememberednonoticeableinsigniaontheuniformsofthearrivingmilitarythatwoulddesignatethebranchofservice.OfcoursetheArmystillhadinitsinventoryeverypieceofequipmentneededtoremoveandtransportalargecraft,andnowtheyhadskilledspecialistsappropriatetohandleacrashedsaucer.IfyouthinkofNewMexicoasasprawlingmilitaryreservation,dottedwithsmalltownsandsparsecivilianpopulation,youwillseehowtheAztecrecoverywaskeptsecret.EventhepersonnelfoldersofthosewhoparticipatedintherecoveryandcleanupweremeticulouslyalteredsothattheycouldneverprovetheywerepresentatAztec.

InChapter9,wepaytributetopioneeringresearcherswhohelpedtowaketheAztecIncidentfromitsdecades-longsleep.SteinmanparticularlyvalidatedpointforpointthedescriptionofthecraftanditslandingplacethatFrankScullyhaddescribed.RememberthatScullynevervisitedAztecandwasusinginformationfrom“Dr.Gee.”

InourresearchforChapter10,weworkedhardintheNewMexicodesertunderthatearlyAugustsun,butthankgoodnessforthecompanyoffriendswhoturnedthelaborintofun.BillandPamMetzgerweregoodtrouperswhometuswiththegoalofre-enactingthemovingofaflyingsaucerfromamesaaboveHartCanyonRoadallthewaytoanaccesstoLosAlamos,wherethecraftwasreputedtohavebeentakenin1948.Bill,asmentionedinthechapter,isatrueskeptic,andtheskepticisthebestkindofpersontohaveintheNewMexicodesertlaboratorywhendoingexperimentalresearch.

BilldidnotcarewhetherwewerepostulatingthetransportofaflyingsauceroralargeturbinegeneratorfromtheGeneralElectricCompanyinSchenectady,NewYork.Asfarashewasconcerned,asanexpertinthefieldoflargeobjecttransportation,thequestionwasonlywhethersomethingthesizeofaflyingsaucercouldbeloadedandmovedbasedonlyontheinformationwehadfromScully’sbook.

AsBillstatedinhisnarrative,theanswerisyes:Acraftapproximately100feetindiameter,dismantledintothesections,asdescribedbyScully,could,infact,bemovedthroughtheroughterrainof

Page 171: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

HartCanyon,downtoLargoCanyon,andhometosecurefacilities,allwithconventionalequipmentavailablein1948.Asnodebunkerhastakenthetimeordevotedtheresourcestostudysuchamove,wefeelthatBill’sjudgment,givenhisprofessionalcredentials,allowourresearchandfieldteststostandontheirown.Therefore,wearefullyconfidentthatalandedsauceronthatmesacouldhavebeentransportedtoasecureNewMexicomilitarybasewithouteverbeingseenbyciviliansalongtheway.

InChapter11welookedtoamanoftheclothwhohadjustopenedaBaptistChurchinJanuary1948inMancos,Colorado,justnorthoftheNewMexicostateline,andwastryingtogrowacongregation,notscarethemoff.SolonLemleyBrownpossessedawonderfulrésumé.HismissionwastomovetoMancosandreopentheMancosBaptistChurch,whichhadbeenclosedforanumberofyears.Thesmallchurchshowedpromise,butPreacherBrownknewtheworkaheadwouldmeanlonghoursfortherebuildingprocess.

ImaginehimcomingbacktoMancosafterdoinghisoutreachworkintheAztecareathatMarchevening,outreachthatendedresultedinhiscontactwithacrashedorlandedflyingsaucer.Talkingaboutthiswasnotawaytoattractnewparishioners,letalonekeepthefewhehad.However,hefeltcompelledtotellhischurchdeaconwhathehadwitnessedthatday,regardlessofthefactthathehadbeensworntosecrecy.

AswithsomanyotherpeopleinvolvedintheAztecstory,herewehaveanotherpersonwhosestoryseemsultimatelycredible.WhenSuzanneandI(Scott)spenttimeinMancos,wecouldnotfindanyonewhowascriticalofthechurchoritspreacher.Infact,whethertheyhadheardthesaucerstoryornot,allsaidifBrownsaidhesawaflyingsaucerrestingonamesa,thenthat’swhathesaw.WaltSayrecertainlywasacredibleguy,andhewastherethatnightwhenthepreachertoldthestorytohisfather,DeaconBruceSayre.Westand100percentwiththesewitnesses,theirhonestcharacter,andthestorytheytold.

Chapter12wasmorethantwoyearsinthemaking.GettingdocumentsconcerningSilasNewtonfromtheFBIwaslikeplayinggameofseven-cardstudwithWildBillHickok.FOIArequestsweremade,andtheresponsewas“Wedon’thavethem.”Icamebackwith“Yes,youdo,”andtheirreplywas“Howdoyouknow?”WhenIcamebackwith“Youreleasedsomeyearsago,”thenitwas“Okay.We’llsendtheminafewdays.”Thatwas18monthsofconversationandcorrespondencecondensedintoafewquicklines.IunderstandtheFBIhastoprotecttheprivacyoflivingsubjects,butwehadalreadyprovedtothefedsthatNewtonhaddiedyearsbefore.

TheotherFBIfilesinvolvedtheso-called“stingoperation”attheEdelweissBarneartheMelwynHotelindowntownDenver.Supposedly,areporterbythenameofClineparticipatedintheoperation,boughtsomeflyingsaucerphotosfor$1,500,andthenslippedpasttheFBI,ArmyCID,andAirForceOSI,nevertobeheardfromagain.CouldClinehavebeensomebodyelsewithcredentialsgoodenoughtopasshimselfoffasareporterandpossiblybepartofanotherU.S.governmentagency?WeworkedformonthstryingtofindaClineattheBaltimorepaperthattheofficialreportssayheworkedfor,andwecameupwithnothing,evenafterinterviewingaretirednewspaperreporterwhoworkedattheBaltimorepaperatthattime.Hesaidtherewasnowaythatamanbythatnameworkedthere,andtherewasalsonowaythepaperwouldhavesentaguytoDenveraboutaflyingsaucerstorywiththatmuchmoney.

ThepointhereisthatmanygovernmentagencieswerelookingintotheAztecflyingsaucerstory.No,notjustwhenithappenedin1948,notonlywhenScully’sbookfirsthitthestandsin1950,butevenafewyearslaterwiththeCahnmagazinearticle.AndthentherewastheFBIfileonNewtonthatwasupdatedrightupuntilhisdeath.

Inhisarchivedpapersandinhisfinalbook,ScullytalksabouttheFBIandtheAirForcegivinghimandNewtoncontinuingproblems.LetterswenttoandfromScully’spublisherHenryHoltandCompany,warningScullyto“backoffonthenextbook”untiltheheatplacedonthembythegovernmentcooledoff.2

NotknownbymanyisthefactthatScullyhadbegunasequeltoBehindtheFlyingSaucers.Another

Page 172: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

accomplishedresearcherandNorthCarolinaresident,MikePrice,persuadedustotakeatripwithhimtotheWest,whereweactuallyfoundthebeginningsofScully’stypescriptprospectusforhissecondbook.3InthecollectionwealsofoundthebeginningstoabookbeingwrittenbySilasNewton,whotalkedabouttheentireAztecaffairaspartofhisautobiographicalmusings.

Afterthisbookisdone,weareconsideringanotherbookthatwillrevealwhatScullyandNewtonhadtosay.ThesetypeddocumentswerefullofstoriesabouttheFBIandtheAirForce,bothagenciesthatweretailingtheprincipalsoftheAztecstory,obviouslytryingtodiscoverwhichoftheDr.GeescientistshadspilledthebeansaboutflyingsaucerstoNewtonandScully.

Atthebeginningofthisquest,wewouldneverhavebetmoneythatsomanyAztecsaucerdocumentsexisted.Thestreamofdocumentskeptourinterestpiquedinbetweenfindingnewleadsandinterviewingpeoplewhohadsomeknowledgeoftheflyingsaucer.Thedocumentsarereal,andmosthaveneverbeenseenbyotherresearchers.Eventhoughtheycouldbeconsideredcircumstantialoranecdotal,theyarefascinating,becausetheycomefromtheprincipalactorsintheAztecdrama.ThesedocumentsmayleadtoyetanotherbookdevelopingtheAztecstory.

Further,forthereader(etjudices),wehavechronicledmuchofthepost-1950interestintheAztecIncidentinchapter13,givingatimelineofdiscoveryrelevanttoAztecandrelatinganecdotesaboutpeoplewhohavevisitedthecrashsite.The“dozens”ofvisitsmadebyDr.RoyCraigisworthemphasizing.4HereisascientistwhowaspartoftheCondonCommittee,andwhoseworkitwastodiscreditallflyingsaucersightingsandburythemsothegovernmentcouldpubliclystopinvestigatingthephenomenon.CraigremainedinterestedintheAzteccrashrightupuntilhisdeath.

Chapter14requiredthemosttimeandeffortinresearchforthisbook.WespentalmostfouryearsgatheringinformationonthepossibleDr.Geeswhowereonthegovernmentpayrollatthattime.ResearchingtheOSRD(OfficeofScience,ResearchandDevelopment)andgettingcompletefilesduringthispastdecadewasmoredifficultthanlocatingPresidentBarackObama’sbirthcertificate!Still,wegotourinformation,onepieceatatime.I(Scott)haveoftenthoughtthatevenifwewerewrongaboutthepeoplewhocomprisedthecompositeDr.Gee,thestoryisstillfascinating;however,theevidenceistooconclusivetobecoincidence.

TheinformationinScully’sbookrevealedmorethanaflyingsaucerstory;italsowavedaredflagtotheU.S.governmentthatsomeoneinthelate1940s,andin1950,wasleakingstill-classifiedinformationastohowtheWarDepartmentworkedduringWWIIandinthebeginningColdWarwiththeSovietUnion.MostoftheelectromagnetismtechnologythatDr.Geementionedinhisstorywasclassifiedandcertainlynotsomethingthatascientistwasallowedtodiscusswithanybodyoutsidehiscompartmentalizedgroupin1950,letalonewithaHollywoodwriter.

TheentiresubjectofaMADDforelectronicdetectionofsubmarineswasstillahotbuttontopicwithourmilitary,andsomepartsofthetechnologyarestillrestrictedasthisbookiswritten.TheOrionP-3,amilitaryaircraftknownasthesub-chaser,fliesovertheoceansoftheworldlookingforhostilesubmarineseventoday,usingtheMADD.

Aswedidourresearch,thefamiliarnameDr.VannevarBushappearedagainandagain.BushhaslongbeenlinkedwithflyingsaucersandhisroleincreatingtheOSRD.Bushheadedthemostsecretdivisionofthewarresearcheffort:theManhattanProject,whichendedthewarbydroppingtwoatomicweaponsonJapan.Whenwelookatthescientistsinvolvedintheproject,theyaretheveryresearchersDr.Geewasdescribing.NootherscientistsintheOSRDhadtherésumésboastedbythesemen.Wemaybemissingoneortwoofthesemenwhofoughtwithbrainsandtechnologytowinawar,butweknowthemenwenamedfitperfectlyasthecompositeDr.GeeinScully’sbook.

Afterallourresearch,weputourmoneyonDr.JohnTorranceTateasthemainDr.Gee.YearsafterScully’sbookcameout,andwhenScullywasunderenormouspressurebythegovernmenttorevealthe

Page 173: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

names,Scullymadeastatementthat“Dr.Geewasnolongeravailabletotalkto.”WasScullytellingthetruth,orjusttryingtododgeabullet?Infact,whenBehindtheFlyingSaucershadjusthitthebookstores,Tatehadjustrecentlydied.So,toScully’scredit,itwasafactthatTatewasnolongeravailabletotalk—toanyone.Tatesufferedseveralstrokesin1950,andbythefallof1950hesuccumbedtoafinalstroke.

Havingsaidthat,BillSteinmanmakesastrongcaseforKarlHeilandasthemainDr.Gee,particularlybeacusehewasbasedinDenverandcouldhavebeentheScientistXthatSilasNewtonsubstitutedforonMarch8,1950attheUniversityofDenver.Thereisevensomesuperficialresemblancebetweenthetwomen.

So,wehaveshownthroughrésumésandhistoricaldatathatScully,throughhisfriendSilasNewton,hadapipelinetosecretgovernmentresearch,andhadnamedthisteamofgovernmentscientists“Dr.Gee.”Hissourceswereimpeccable,andsowastheinformationaboutflyingsaucers.

ThetitleofChapter15(“ExaminingtheEvidence”)meansthestudyofthephysicalevidence,anditleavesthereaderwithsomeofthesamequestionsthatthatbeganthisquest.Westudiedtheconcreteslabasbestwecould,andwespeculatedaboutthepossibleoriginsoftheK-rationandC-rationcans,aswellasafoiltobaccopouchandM-1Garandclipsthatwefound.EventhoughtheseartifactsmayormaynothaveanythingtodoinprovingthemilitarypresenceonHartCanyonMesain1948,wetookmanyhourstoresearchthelocationasthoughitwereacrimescene.Theconcreteslabiswithoutdoubtamonumenttoarecoverythatdidinvolveourflyingsaucerstory.Thepresenceofthemilitaryroadhasneverbeenexplainedtoanyone’ssatisfaction,asthereisnoreasontocreatearoadlessthan40yardslong.

Samplesfromthetreesandotherartifactsthathavebeenleftbehindareinproperstorageforpreservationandforfurtherstudy,asaretheaerialphotosofthesite.Eventually,thetreesamplesaredestinedtobesubmittedtoascientificlaboratorywheretheyearoftheirdeathsmaybeestablished.I(Scott)havebeenaskednumeroustimesifwehaveevertookaGeigercountertothecrashsiteandtestedforradiation.Ididthisbackintheearly1990swhenalabtechletmeborrowaunitthatwehadinourlaboratory.Iwasreluctanttoevenplaywiththis,asNewMexicohasareputationforsoilbackgroundradiation.Thatsaid,IfoundnoelevatedreadingsinmytestsonHartCanyonMesa.Iwasnotexpectingtofindanything,either,consideringthatthewitnessesallsaidthecraftlandedintact.So,theconclusionwouldbe:radiationfromwhat?Also,ifScullyandtheDr.Geeswerecorrect,thecraftflewbysomeformofmagneticfieldpropulsionthatwouldnotgenerateatomicradiation.

So,ladiesandgentlemenofthejury,hereisourtakeonalmost30yearsofresearchofaflyingsaucerlandingorcrashingonamesaaboveHartCanyon.Inoneshortsentence:Ithappenedjustasdescribed!Aswehavestatedbeforeandnowforthelasttime,thisbookwastheworkofmanypeople.Withalltheyearsofstudy,ourreputationsareontheline,andIknowthathistorywillbeonourside.

Ifeel,however,becausethiscrafthadbeenseenflyingintheCuba,NewMexico,areaforatleasttwoweeksbeforetheHartCanyonrecovery,weneedtoaskmorequestions.ThisobjecthadbeenreportedasflyingoverthetopsecretLosAlamosNationalLaboratory,northeastofCuba,andaroundtheLosAlamosradarfacilitynearElVadoaswell.Thiscraftwassomethingthemilitary,aswellastheAtomicEnergyCommission,wouldhavetotakeveryseriouslyandwouldhavebeenasmuchathreatasaSovietspyplaneorbomber;yetthesaucer’sfantasticperformancecharacteristicsmadeitverydifficulttobringdown.

Aflyingsaucerwouldhavetobeatarget,andwehaveheardofAirForcedocumentsthat,inthe1950s,fighterswerecertainlyorderedto“shootthemdown.”WhethertheLosAlamosareahadamissilebatteryorsometypeofdefensesystemissomethingthatwehaveresearchedforyears,butwehavesofarcomeupempty-handed.CouldanAirForcejetfighterhavebeendispatchedaswesawatCarrizozo,positionedinJuly1947tochaseflyingsaucersawayfromtheRoswellArmyAirFieldandthecrashsiteduringthatimportantsaucerrecovery?

Page 174: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

ValentinArchuletaclaimedhesawtheflyingsaucerpassoverhisranchintheearlymorninghourslikeaflutteringleaffallingfromatree,andhesawthecraftstriketherockwallofamesa,makingsparksbeforedisappearingtothenorthtowardHartCanyon.Couldthisflyingsaucerhavebeenhitwithanti-aircraftfire,withthewoundedcraftmakingittotheHartCanyonareabeforeitanditsdeadcrewmadeacontrolledlandingonthemesa?Wearecertainthat,afterthecraftpassedoverArchuleta’shouse,hemadealong-distancecallthatmorningtotheAirForceatKirtlandAFB.

Wedon’tyetknowallthedetailsofthenightprecedingMarch25,1948,butarecertain—after23yearsofseriousresearch—thatthefollowingstatementsaretruebeyondargument:

1.Flyingsaucersarenotafigmentofourimagination.Theyexist,andourgovernmenthasknownaboutthemformanyyears,goingbackatleasttotheearly1940s.TheRoswellIncidentrecoveryturnedouttobea“testrun”forthemilitary.AfterRoswell,themilitarygotmuchbetteratclandestinerecoveries—notperfect,butdamngood.

2.A100-foot-diameterflyingsaucerwasrecoveredandmovedoffofamesaaboveHartCanyonRoadnearAztecafteritwasdiscoveredonMarch25,1948.Thecrewof16humanoidbodieslaydeadinsidethecraftwithatleasttwoslumpedoverthecontrols.Thecraftwascartedawaytosomesecuregovernmentfacility.

3.Ordinaryoilfieldworkers,lawenforcementofficers,andotherssawthisobject.Theyfeltit,someclimbedonit,andothersstayedawayforfearofwhatitwas.Overtheyears,thedescriptionofthecrafthasnotchanged,asonewouldexpectifitwereatalltale.

4.Militarypersonnelfromsomegrouporunitofthemilitarycametothesiteandadministeredan“oathofsecrecy”tothewitnessesoftheevent.Asyearsandtheiryouthpassed,someofthewitnessesdecidedtotalk.Thisbookistheirstory.

5.Asmuchaswehaveleftthepersonallivesofthesewitnessesoutofthebook,inrespectforthefamilies,itshouldbementionedthatallthewitnessesbecameprosperousinwhateverbusinessendeavorstheychose.Someattainedrichesintheoilbusiness,othersinrealestate,andthestoriesremindushowMacBrazelsuddenlycameintomoneyafterhisdiscoveryofthedebrisfieldatCoronain1947.BrazelneverspokeawordabouthisexperienceaftertheAirForceinterrogatedhim.

6.TheU.S.governmentbecameinvolvedwiththeAztecIncidentattheverystart.NamelessofficialssetouttoeliminatetheentireAzteceventfrommemory,justastheydidwithRoswell.Thegovernmenttriedand,insomecases,succeededinruiningthereputationsofthosewhospokeoutaboutAztec,inparticularSilasNewtonandLeoGeBauer.Otherswerealsopunishedfortalkingtoomuch,asitseemedwasthecasewithAirmanDonaldBass.

7.Thegovernmentcover-uponAztec,asitwaswithRoswell,startedasmearcampaignthatlastedforyears.FederalinvestigatorstriedtointimidateFrankScullyafterhisbookcameout,anditwasprobablygovernmentintimidationofScullyandhispublisherthatdeniedusthatsequeltoBehindtheFlyingSaucersthatwasneverseenbytheAmericanpublic.SilasNewtoncertainlywaswritingabookwithScully’shelp,andwehavethemanuscriptofthatunfinishedwork.But,aswithScully,heneverfoundapublisher,andNewtonwasundertheFBImicroscopeuntilthedayhedied.BillSteinman,whowrotethefirstbookonAztecsinceScully,claimshewasthreatenedbeforeandafterhisbookcameoutin1986.Thiskindofintimidationdoesnotcomportwithahoaxorafantasystory.

8.We,orI(Scott),pickeduponthisstoryinthelate1980s,andthoughtitcouldbefiguredoutinsixtoeightmonths.Somewherealongthewayabrightlightswitchedoninsidemyhead,andIrealizedthattheprojectwouldtakeyears.WenowhaveexhumedandrehabilitatedtheScullystoryandtaken

Page 175: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

upthechallengeposedbySteinman’swork.The29yearsofresearchhasprovedtousthatU.S.governmenthasrecovereddownedflyingsaucersandhauledthemawaytopartsunknown.Howsuccessfultheyhavebeeninreverse-engineeringthesecraftanddiscoveringthebiologicalrootsoftheoccupantsisanyone’sguess;however,thespeedoftechnologicalevolutionsince1947hasbeenastounding,andsomemightsayitdefieslogic.ThetransistorwasdevelopedbyBellLaboratories,suddenly,sixmonthsaftertheRoswellrecovery.Theremaybeothercoincidencesworthpursuinginthisline.

9.Despitemorethanhalfacenturyofoverwhelmingevidence,perhapsthegovernment,andthepublicatlarge,hasnotbeenwillingtoaccepttherealstoryoftheAztecflyingsaucer,becausepeopleingeneralareunwillingtoconsidertheenormityoftheimplicationsthefactswouldforcethemtoface.

Wehopethereaderunderstandsthatthatwe,theauthors,knowtheAztecIncidentisarealeventandthatknowledgeoftherecoveryatHartCanyonshouldhavebeenmadeknowntotheAmericanpubliclongago.

Wenowrestourcase,aswedelivertheevidenceandconclusionspresentedhere.Thebookmayleavethereaderwithmorequestionsthananswers,buttheresearchbegunin1986iscontinuingevenasthisbookissenttothepublisher.

WeredeemedthereputationofauthorFrankScully,whosebestsellingstoryof1950hasbeenverifiedindetailbytheevidencepresentedhere.Now,letusgobacktotheanonymousscientist(SilasNewton)standingonthestageofapackedlecturehallattheUniversityofDenveronMarch8,1950.Hespoketotheprofessorsandstudentsgatheredthere,confirmingtherealityofarecoveredflyingsaucerfromouterspace.HewastalkingaboutAztec,andwehavenowprovedhiswordstobetheabsolutetruth.

Page 176: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

ChapterNotes

Chapter11.Thisandotherquotationsherecompiledfromface-to-faceinterviewswithresidentsofthetownofCubaNewMexico,duringtwoseparateresearchtrips,includingmultipleinterviewswithJohnnyHernandez,townhistorianforCuba.ThisparticularquotationisfromatelephoneinterviewwithJohnnyHernandez,May2002.

2.TheNewMexicoNationalGuardMuseumWebsite,www.bataanmuseum.com/3.Steinman,WilliamS.,UFOCrashatAztec:AWell-KeptSecret,UFOPhotoArchives,Tucson,Arizona,1986,p.285.

4.AllquotationsfromDougNolandcomefromatelephoneinterviewwithDougathishomeinLasVegas,Nevada,fromMooresville,NorthCarolina,August2003.

5.Ibid.6.KeepinmindthattheAirForcewasrelativelynew,havingbeenseparatedfromtheArmyAirCorpsforonlyafewmonthsin1948.

7.TheDurango,Colorado,airportwasonly17–20milesfromthecrashsite,dependingontheroutechosenin1948.Itwasusedbymilitaryunitsonaregularbasis.

8.InformationandquotationsinthissectioncomefromapersonalinterviewwithKenFarley,Phoenix,Arizona,1999.

9.Ramsey,Scott,SuzanneRamsey,FrankThayer,andFrankWarren,TheAztecIncident:RecoveryatHartCanyon,Aztec48Publications,Mooresville,N.C.,2012.

10.InformationandquotationsinthissectioncomefromatelephoneinterviewwithWalterSayre,October1999.

11.InformationandquotationsinthissectioncomefromatelephoneinterviewwithFredReed,1999.12.Thepersonwecall“George”hasbeenconfirmedandisknownbyseveralresearchers,includingStan

Friedman,DennisBalthaser,FrankWarren,ScottRamsey,andSuzanneRamsey.Hisrecordsarecorrect,ashisnameappearsintheAirForceYearBookof1948forWalkerAirField(formerlyRoswellArmyAirBase).

13.In-personinterviewwithGeorgeataRadissonhotel,February2001.Thelocationisnottobereleased,perGeorge’sfamily’srequest.

14.Thatwouldmeanthatnotallofthe200peopleknewwhattheyweretheretorecover,accordingtoGeorge.

Chapter21.FrankScully,BehindtheFlyingSaucers,NewYork,HenryHoltandCo.,1950.2.Ibid.Quotationsandinformationthroughout,unlessotherwisenoted,isfromthissource.3.InterviewwithRobertMcClay,SanFrancisco,2005.4.J.P.Cahn,“TheFlyingSaucersandtheMysteriousLittleMen,”TrueMagazine,September1952.

Chapter31.Thisletterwase-mailedtoScottandSuzanneRamseyandreprinted,withtheirpermission,invariousplacesonline.

Page 177: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Chapter41.ClaytonBoddy,FarmingtonDailyTimes,March18,1950,frontpage.2.Ibid.Thisandallotherquotationsinthischaptercomefromthissourceunlessotherwisenoted.3.TelephoneinterviewwithMarloWebb,April2015.

Chapter51.FrankScully,InArmourBright,Chilton,1963.2.InterviewwithRobertMcClay,DalyCity,California,July15,2008.3.Ibid.4.LetterwrittenbyFrankandAliceScully,June15,1952;senttoA.BrighamSeptember20,1952.5.ThisstorywastoldinScully’sbylinedarticleintheFebruary1951editionofPageantmagazineaswellasachapterofhis1963Chiltonbook,InArmourBright.

6.Thecourtdocumentsreferencedthroughoutthissectionareavailableathttp://vault.fbi.gov/reading-room-index.

7.Scully,InArmourBright.8.LetterfromHoovertoCahn,datedMay3,1951.ThefinalresponsefromCahntoHooverwasdatedMay15,1951.

9.FBIfileonSilasM.Newton,internallettersstartingwithDecember1,1949.10.LetterfromFrankScully,datedJune19,1951.11.WilliamSteinman,UFOCrashatAztec:AWell-KeptSecret,1986.Steinmanisreferringtothe

DenverCourtrecordsconcerningthetrialofSilasM.NewtonandLeoGeBauer.12.ItalicsappliedhereforemphasistoillustratethatthedevicewasnotthedevicetakenfromGeBauer

butwasadoodlebugpurchasedfromasurplusstore.

Chapter61.Scully,InArmourBright.2.FrankScullyCollection,Box4,Folder3,AmericanHeritageCenter,UniversityofWyomingatLaramie.

3.Scully,BehindtheFlyingSaucers,p.15.4.Ibid.,p.33.5.Newton’sunpublishedmanuscriptispartoftheFrankScullyCollection,Box4,Folder3,AmericanHeritageCenter,UniversityofWyomingatLaramie.AllScullyquotationsfromthismanuscriptcomefromthissource.

6.Scully,BehindtheFlyingSaucers.7.ThewirereelrecordingisthepropertyofAmericanHeritageCenter,UniversityofWyomingatLaramie.

8.LetterfromSilasM.NewtontoFrankScully,July2,1951.9.Ibid.10.Ibid.11.Ibid.12.Newton’sunpublishedmanuscript.13.LetterfromSilasM.NewtontoFrankScully,July2,1951.14.SilasM.Newton’snotes,datedJune12,1952.(Note:LettersbeganinApril1951andcontinueduntil

theFBIactedagainstNewtonin1952.)

Page 178: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

15.Ibid.16.Time,November10,1930.17.LetterfromSilasM.NewtontoFrankScully,July2,1951.

Chapter71.KarlPflock’se-mailnewsletter,March2002.2.Ibid.3.DaveThomas,lecture,Aztec,NewMexicoUFOSymposium,March2000.4.AccordingtoMenzel’sthreebooks:UFO’s:FlyingSaucers-Myth-Truth-History(1953),TheWorldofFlyingSaucers(1963),andTheUFOEnigma(1977;releasedjustafterhisdeathin1976).

5.AllPflockquotesherearefromthefollowingsource:KarlPflockpresentation,AztecUFOSymposium,Aztec,NewMexico,March2002.

6.InformationinthissectionisfromtheinterviewwithJimandBerniceBowra,Durango,Colorado,March24,2015.

7.www.worldwar2facts.org8.RoyCraig,UFOs:AnInsider’sViewoftheOfficialQuestForEvidence,UniversityofNorthTexas,1995.

9.Informationinthissectioncomesfromane-mailinterviewexchangebetweenFrankThayerandMonteShriver.

Chapter81.NewMexicoF.O.P.records,2002.2.InformationandquotationsinthissectioncomefromJ.AndrewKissner,“PeculiarPhenomena”(unpublished),1994.

3.Quotationsandinformationinthissectioncomefromanin-personinterviewwithJohnnyHernandezinterview,Cuba,NewMexico,August2008.

4.LorenGross,“TheFifthHorsemanoftheApocalypes,”UFOs:TheHistory,1950.5.InterviewwithH.H.Nininger,dateunknown.6.Gross,“TheFifthHoreseman.”7.DonaldKeyhoe,TheFlyingSaucersAreReal,FawcettPublications,1950.8.ThiswasstatedinaUnitedStatesAirForceinpressreleaseaswellasmanynewoutlets.9.Ibid.

Chapter91.WilliamSteinman,UFOCrashatAztec.2.TelephoneinterviewwithDr.RoyCraig.3.Steinman,UFOCrashatAztec.4.Ibid.5.Ibid.6.Ibid.7.Ibid.8.Ibid.9.Ibid.10.ThisinformationcomesfromanundatedAirForcereport.11.JimGarrison,OntheTrailoftheAssassins,,1968.

Page 179: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

12.InformationandquotationsinthissectioncomefromChrisB.Evans,AlienConspiracy:UnravelingtheUFO/AlienMystery,Ceredo,WestVirginia,AlarmClockPublishing,2003.

Chapter101.Scully,BehindtheFlyingSaucers.2.KarlPflockpresentation,AztecUFOSymposium,Aztec,NewMexico,March2002.3.BillMetzgerwrotethisaccountforour2012bookaswellasthisbook.

Chapter111.TelephoneinterviewwithWalterSayre,October1999;informationconfirmedviae-mailin2004.2.TelephoneinterviewwithDr.AutreyBrown,June2010.3.MeetingwithJimGregory,BaptistChurchofMancos,Mancos,Colorado,March2005.

Chapter121.AccordingtoFBIfilesanddocumentspresentedpreviouslyinthisbook.2.Scully,BehindtheFlyingSaucers,p.7.3.Ibid.,p.9.4.Scully,BehindtheFlyingSaucers.5.Keyhoe,TheFlyingSaucersAreReal,p.169.6.LetterfromWilliamBuckleyatHoltandCompany,1952.7.ThisinterviewwasconductedinDenver,Colorado,in1950.8.Theletter,fromtheUSAFArchives,fromFifthArmytotheAirForceOfficeofSpecialInvestigation,describestheMelwynHotel“AztecPhotos”sting,October9,1950.

9.Sourcenamewithheldbyrequest.Telephoneinterviewatthesource’shomeinMaryland,mid-2000.10.Evans,AlienConspiracy,p.101.11.Steinman,UFOCrashatAztec,pp.116–117.12.LetterfromSilasM.NewtontoFrankScully.

Chapter131.StantonFriedman,FlyingSaucersandScience,2008.2.Informationinthissectioncomesfromwww.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc999.htm.3.QuotationstakenfromtheCondonCommitteereport.4.InformationandquotationsinthissectioncomefromatelephoneinterviewwithDr.RoyCraig,fromhisBocaRanchinsouthernColorado.

5.Keyhoe,TheFlyingSaucersAreReal,p.169.6.CRIFOSStatusReportIII,dateunknown.7.CRIFOSStatusReportVII,1994.8.KevinRandle,AHistoryofUFOCrashes,1995,p.189.9.Steinman,UFOCrashatAztec.10.TelephoneinterviewwiththeMeltons’daughter,Judy(Melton)Gillespie,May2015.11.InterviewwithMark(ranchhand).Lastnamewithheld.12.Steinman,UFOCrashatAztec,p.203.13.LectureattheUniversityofDenver,March8,1950.

Chapter14

Page 180: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

1.Scully,BehindtheFlyingSaucers.2.Ibid.,Chapter12.3.CompanyinformationisavailablefromtheTexasInstrumentsWebsite,www.ti.com/corp/docscompany/history/mcderm.shtml.

4.Steinman,UFOCrashatAztec,p.84.5.Ibid.,p.166.6.RichardOgden,unpublishedmanuscript.Therewasnocoverpagewithatitle.7.TexasInstrumentsWebsite,www.ti.com/corp/docscompany/history/mcderm.shtml.8.HandbookofTexas,published1952,1976,1996,and1999bytheTexasStateHistoricalAssociation,ISBN#0-87611-151-7.

9.Geophysics,June1979.10.JonM.Harkness,“ALifetimeofConnections,”BakkenLibraryandMuseum,Minneapolis,

Minnesota,nodate.11.Steichen,Bethany,MinnesotaTechnology,spring2005.12.Scully,BehindtheFlyingSaucers,Chapter2.13.Ibid.14.Ibid.15.Ibid.,p.23.16.Ibid.,p.127.17.Ibid.18.Ibid.19.Ibid.,p.128.20.Ibid.21.Ibid.,p.135.22.Ibid.,p.133.

Chapter151.InterviewwithTomPatty,theLaboratory,Texas,2005/2006.2.Scully,BehindtheFlyingSaucers.3.InterviewwithLeeCrane,AtomicBistro,Aztec,NewMexico,2004.4.TelephoneinterviewwithArtReed,1998.5.InformationandquotationscomefromatelephoneinterviewwithHankKnowlton,April2005.6.InformationandquotationscomefromatelephoneinterviewwithHankKnowlton,June2005.

Chapter161.InformationandquotationsherearefromaninterviewwithVirgilRiggs,Aztec,NewMexico,2004.2.Theletters,dated1952,arepartoftheFrankScullyCollection,Box4,Folder3,AmericanHeritageCenter,UniversityofWyomingatLaramie.

3.TheFrankScullyCollection,Box4,Folder3,AmericanHeritageCenter,UniversityofWyomingatLaramie.

4.TelephoneinterviewwithDr.RoyCraig.

Page 181: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

Index

AerialPhenomenonResearchOrganization,235AFOSI,163,201AirForce,picturestakenbythe,39AirForceOfficeofSpecialInvestigations,seeAFOSIaircraft,prototype,143Andrews,Andy,13,58,62Archuletaranch,14Archuleta,Valentine,14-17Arnold,Kenneth,232artifacts,thestoryaboutsaucer,114AtomicEnergyCommission,266AztecPioneerMuseum,177AztecSymposium,125-133Barnes,Randy,24-25Bass,Donald,

analyzingthestoryfrom,43-44deathof,54observationsof,51-52searchingfor,55-56

Bass,Sam,seeDonaldBassBible,UFOsandthe,173Boddy,ClaytonJ.,58-59bodies,

allegedpositionofthecraft’s,193stateandappearanceof,21-22

Bowra,Jim,134-1345Brown,

Dr.Autrey,192-195SolonLemley,storyof,27-28,194-196

Bush,Vannevar,GSIand,247-250Cahn,J.P.,63-95

articleswrittenby,109discreditingtheAztecstoryby,44J.EdgarHooverand,202skepticismofFrankScullyby,42-43

Cameron,Grant,205

Page 182: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

CarrizozocrashofaP-80jetfighter,147-148Carrizozo,NewMexico,131CedarHill,NewMexico,129-130CID,201ColdWar,201-202

flyingsaucerphenomenonandthe,229secretprojectsduring,257

Colorado,Durango,134compressorpadexplanation,270concretesamples,testingand,271-272CondonCommittee,afugitiveofthe,233-234ContinentalDivideRadarBase,277craft,

appearanceofcrashed,22constructionofthe,40movingthe,175-189pamphletsfoundinsidethe,40

Craig,Dr.Roy,234crashlocation,

FrankScullyandthe,166WilliamSteinmanandthe,166

crashsiteevidence,277-278crashsite,cleanupofthe,28-31Cuba,NewMexico,13,149,152debunkers,

Aztec,123-125UFO,140

Dr.Gee,37descriptionofcraftcabinby,42flyingaircraftand,39FrankScully’sintroductionto,94mysterymenand,245-268thehealthof,229theidentityof,172-173

DragonWagon,resurrectingthe,180-182driptanksexplanation,271Durango,Colorado,134EdelweissCafé,imageofthe,268emergencylanding,P-38LockheadLightning,128-129Evans,Chris,157-174,238

Page 183: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

evidence,examiningthe,269-283Farley,Ken,24-26Farmington

Airport,131Armada,57-62NewMexico,57

FBI,campaignofthe,100SilasNewtonstoryandthe,76-77

Ferguson,Bill,13-24fireballs,mysteriousgreen,202FirstBaptistChurchofMancos,192Flader,Herman,44,75-76

subpoenaof,83flyingsaucerphenomenon,theColdWar,229flyingsaucerstory,MauryIsland,170flyingsaucer,

artifactsfromthe,114sketchof,99

flyingsaucers,behindthe,35-46fraud,LeoGeBauerandSilasNewtonand,80-82Friedman,Stanton,47-49

theRoswellIncidentand,231GeBauer,Leo,46,78-79

arrestof,115friendshipwithSilasNewtonand,101oil-detectingdevicesof,82persecutionof,79-80thetrialof,159trialof,80-87

greenfireballs,mysterious,202Green,CecilHoward,250-251Grudge/ProjectBluebookReport#13,the,167-168GSI,VannevarBushand,247-250Haggerty,PatrickE.,251-252HartCanyonMesa,

Armycover-upand,231concreteslabat,269oildriptanksat,18WilliamSteinmanand,161

Page 184: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

HartCanyonmeteorite,153HartCanyonRoad,18

craftrecoveredon,58firenear,193investigationat,25residents,of,132storagetankson,193

HartCanyonsite,leavingthe,182HartCanyon,14,16

mysteryvisitorto,239-244therecoveryat,34

Hathcock,Leanne,125Hernandez,Johnny,150-151Highway44,locationof,178-179hoax,SilasNewtonandpossible,104Hoover,J.Edgar,J.P.Cahnand,202Jonsson,JohnErik,253-254Karcher,J.Clarence,253-256Kenner,John,seeJ.P.Cahn,63Keyhoe,Donald,155,204KingsMountain,122KirtlandAirForceBase,16,146

privatetelephoneconversationsfrom,162Kissner,J.Andrew,146-148Koehler,George,162-163,201-230

recordingsof,97-98LaPaz,Lincoln,152-154Leeper,Benson,26-27,240LosAlamosNationalLaboratory,151MADD,258

documentfrom,94MagneticAnomalyDetectionDevices,seeMADDmagneticoilfindingdevices,38magnetism,

discussionson,105flyingcraftpoweredby,38

MancosProject,196-197Mancos,NewMexico,27ManhattanProject,141,265ManhattanProject,nuclearweaponsandthe,144

Page 185: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

MasonNewton,Silas,36-37MauryIslandflyingsaucerstory,170MaxwellAirForceBase,129McClay,Robert,65

interviewwith,88-93McDermott,Eugene,256McEwen,Wright,26-27Meier,Raymond,239Melton,Harvey,239Melton,Vivian,239MelwynHotel,223-225Meredith,Dr.James,82-83meteorite,HartCanyon,153Metzger,Bill,133,176-177

movingthecraftand,184-189militarypresenceinNewMexico,145militarypresence,crashedcraftand,22-23Miller,Ricahrd,240movingthecrafttoasecurelocation,182-184MUFON,126MutualUFONetwork,seeMUFONmysteriousgreenfireballs,202mysteriousvisits,231-244mysterymen,Dr.Geeandthe,245-268NationalDefenseResearchCommittee,258NationalInvestigationsCommitteeonAerialPhenomena,seeNICAPNewMexico,Carrizozo,131NewMexico,

CedarHill,129-130Cuba,13,149,152Farmington,57Mancos,27militarypresencein,145

Newhall,Scott,45NewtonOilCompanyofColorado,75

lettersfromthe,110-111Newton,Silas,44,97-120,159

fraudtrialof,235J.P.Cahn’sattackof,75persecutionof,79-80

Page 186: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

possiblehoaxof,126theFBIand,76-77trialof,80-87

NICAP126Noland,Doug,17-24nuclearweapons,theManhattanProjectand,144occupantsofthecraft,uniformsofthe,41-42OfficeofStrategicServices,28oildriptanksatHartCanyonMesa,18oilfindingdevices,magnetic,38OperationPaperclip,144P-38LockheadLightningemergencylanding,128-129P-80jetfighter,Carrizozocrashofa,147-148pamphletsfoundinsidethecraft,40Peacock,HenryBates,257Pflock,Karl,121-140

roadresearchand,175skepticopinionof,43

physicaltraceevidence,278-283ProjectSign,establishmentof,232prototypeaircraft,143pumppadexplanation,271radarbasenotes,277radarbases,272-273RAFWelford,47-56Randle,Kevin,238Reed,Fred,28-31researchersversusskeptics,122-123revelations,231-244Riggs,Virgil,49-52roadresearch,KarlPflockand,175roads,tracingthe,177-179RobertsonPanel,232RoswellArmyAirForceBase,146RoswellArmyField,31RoswellIncident,

confusingtheAztecIncidentwiththe,54disinformationaboutthe,157investigationofthe,31similaritiesofthe,158

Page 187: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

StantonFriedmanandthe,231Rudolph,Arthur,145samples,testingandconcrete,271-272Sandoval,Manuel,13,20-21,62

routineof,149-150Sarbacher,Dr.RobertI.164-166Sayre,Bruce,26-27Schmitt,OttoHermanArnold,257-259Scully,Frank,33-34,35-36,158-159

crashlocationrecordedby,166investigationofbookby,201J.P.Cahnand,65letterfromSilasNewtonto,117-120memotoJ.P.Cahnfrom,66-70,72-74publicopinionofstoryby,82

secretkeepers,141-155Severson,Thor,subpoenaof,85-86Shriver,Monte,137-140skeptic,roleofthe,136skepticsversusresearchers,122-123sketchofflyingsaucer,SilasNewton’s,99Smith,William,scientificrevelationsby,163Smoak’sGarage,59-61Soule,CaptainFloydG.,148-149SovietUnion,militarystandoffwiththe,144Steinman,William“Bill,”15-16,157-164

crashlocationrecordedby,166currentwearaboutsof,169

HartCanyonMesaand,161SilasNewtonand,78-79

Stevens,Wendelle,167Stringfield,Leonard,235-237Strughold,Hubertus,145Symposium,Aztec,125-133Tate,JohnTorrence,259-261testingandconcretesamples,271-272Thatcher,HaroldF.59Thomas,Dave,131-133timetableofAztecdiscovery,241-244Tolman,RichardC.,261-262

Page 188: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

U.S.ArmyCounterIntelligenceDivision,seeCIDUFOresearch,theroleoftheskepticin,136UFOs,theinterimyearsof,237-239uniformsoftheoccupantsofthecraft,41-42V-2rockets,143vonBraun,Werner,145WalkerAirForceBase,31,146weapons,nuclear,144Webb,Marlo,58-61wellcapexplanation,270WhiteSandsProvingGround,135,143,146

Page 189: The Aztec UFO Incident - avalonlibrary.netavalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scott Ramsey, Suzanne Ramsey, Frank Thayer... · The Aztec UFO Incident The Case, Evidence, and Elaborate Cover-up

AbouttheAuthors

ScottRamseyistheforemostresearcherintotheAztecIncident,havingworkedonthestorysince1987,discoveringarchivesandpursuinginterviewsthroughouttheUnitedStates.BorninPittsburgh,Pennsylvania,in1957,hisentirecareerhasbeenintheelectricalindustry.Specializinginmagneticfieldsandelectricalwire,hehasworkedforFortune500companies,andcurrentlyisvicepresidentofsalesandmarketingforExpressWireServicesinCharlotte,NorthCarolina.HeismarriedtoSuzanneRamsey,whomhemetintheFourCornersareawhiledoingresearch.TheRamseysresideontheirfarm,practicingpermacultureandsustainablefarming.Afterthecouple’ssuccessful2012Aztecbook,theirresearchcontinues.

Suzanne(Ninos)RamseydiscoveredtheAztecIncidentafterhermotherreadFrankScully’s1950bookBehindtheFlyingSaucers,thefirstbookaboutalandedsaucer.TheNinosfamilylivedintheFourCornersarea,andSuzanneownedasmallbusinessthere,pursuingmediawritingandhostingaradioshow.ShemetandmarriedScottRamseyafterheappearedonhershowtodiscusshisresearch.Suzannehastraveledextensively,interviewingandpursuingresearchatuniversityandUSAFarchives.SheisCEOofCarolinaCountryProvisions,whosemainproductisUncleScott’sAllNaturalRootBeer.TheRamseysliveinMooresville,NorthCarolina,wheretheirAztecresearchcontinues.

FrankThayer,PhD,cametotheAztecIncidentprojectin2009,whenScottRamseysharedwitnessinformationoftherecoveryatHartCanyon.ThayerisaNewMexiconativewithextensivejournalisticandjournalismeducationexperience.NowaprofessoremeritusatNewMexicoStateUniversityinLasCruces,hehasprofessionalexperienceasawriter,editor,photographer,andeducatorbothinNewMexicoandinCanada,wherehelivedandtaughtfor11years.Heisapublishedbookauthorandisco-authorofthesuccessful2012bookTheAztecIncident:RecoveryatHartCanyon.