transcript of “305 with johnny bowden” - bulletproof...diet and what you read about in smart...

Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden”

Bulletproof Radio podcast #305

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden

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Announcer: BulletproofRadio,astageofhighperformance.

Dave: Hey,it'sDaveAspreywithBulletproofRadio.Today’scoolfactofthe

dayisthatthere’syetanotherreasontoeatmorefat.Atypicaladultlikeyouandmehasabout50billionfatcells.Therearemorefatcellsinasinglehumanbodythantherearefatpeopleonourplanetandthat’sacoolfact.

Believeitornot,flowersdomakepeoplehappy.Thewaytheysmellwhentheysmellfreshflowersandthewaytheylookwiththeircolorsandthingslikethatdobringabitofnatureoutside.I’mactuallyafanofflowers.IbuyflowersforDr.Lanaonaregularbasis.ThefactofthematteriswhenItravel,Iliketodoitevenmore.Theproblemisthatit’sapainintheasstogetflowers.It’sanexperienceIdon’treallyenjoy.

Infact,Dr.Lana,ifyou’relistening,Iactuallyhavemyexecutiveassistanthelpmebuyflowersbecauseit’ssodamncomplexwhichiswhyIwasprettyhappywhenBouqsreachedoutandsaid,“Hey,Dave.Checkthisstuffoutbecausetheseareflowersthatarereally,reallygoodlooking.”They’regrownatecofriendlyfarmsseriouslyonasideofavolcanoinQuito,Ecuador.”IlikevolcanoesbecauseourcoffeeisgrowninGuatemalaonthesideofavolcano,andthebloomsarelarger,andthecolorsaremorevibrantthanyou’reusedtogettingatyourlocalflorist.It’sbettersoil,moresun.It’sgrownat10,000feet.Withflowerslikethisonyourlove’sdesk,it’sgameover.Whatifanotherguy’sflowershaveasillyplushteddybearhuggingthevase?ThatbearwillcowerinadarkdeskdraweronceitseestheBouqsfloweryousent.

“What’sallthesegorgeousnessgoingtosetyouback?”youmightask.Notmuch.That’stheotherthingIlikeaboutthisbecauseregularflowersequalshappywifeanditstartsatamere40bucks.40buckswiththeseguysmeans40bucks,asinnot$68whichiswhattypicallyhappenswhenyoubuy$40flowersandtheyaddabunchofweirdfeesonthere.Infact,it’ssoannoyingthatItrytorunscreamingfromit.I

couldactuallyordertheseflowersallbymyself.There’snoupcharges,noextrafees.EventhedeliveryisfreewhenyouregisterwiththeBouqs.

Ifyou’relisteningtoBulletproofRadiowhichyou’redoingbecauseyou’rehearingmerightnow,youget20%offthebouquetofyourchoice.Thatwillsaveyouatleast8bucksrightnow.Justgotobouqs.comandenterthepromocode“bullet.”That’sB-O-U-Q-S-dot-com,promocodebullet.Bouqs.com,promocodebullet.It’sjustbouquet,getridofthe“uet,”andaddanS,bouqs.com.It’sactuallyreallycool.

Today’sshowmightbeaboutfat.Idon’tknowifItelegraphedthatwellenoughforyoubutourguestisJonnyBowdenPhD,whoisknownastheNutritionMythbuster.He’saboard-certifiednutritionist.YoumighthaveseenhimonDr.Oz,FoxNews,CNN,MSNBC,andalltheotherthree-letterentitiesthatJonnyandIhaveprobablyappearedonandlotsoftheotherguestsonthisshow.I’vealsoseenhiswritingintheNewYorkTimes,DailyBiz,Men’sHealth,andplaceslikethat.He’swrittenactually15booksincludingoneyoumayhaveheardaboutcalledTheGreatCholesterolMythwhichwasco-authoredwithStephenSinatra,awell-knowncardiologistwho’soneofthefirstbigcardiologistvoicessaying,“Dude,eatmorefat.”

Jonny’slatestbookandtheonewe’regoingtotalkabouttodaywasco-authoredwithaverywell-knownphysiciannamedStevenMasleyandthebookiscalledSmartFat:EatMoreFat.LoseMoreWeight.GetHealthyNowpublishedbyHarperOne.Now,youmightnoticethatthere’sasimilaritybetweenwhatyou’vereadaboutintheBulletproofDietandwhatyoureadaboutinSmartFat.That’sbecauseeatingmorefatworks.Therearelotsofnuancesandlotsofthingsyoucando.

IlovetobringguyslikeJonnyontheshowtotalkaboutwhattheydidandwhyitworksbecauseunderstandingthatthereisascience,understandingthatit’snotjustalonevoice.It’sawholecommunityofpeoplewhoarehealthprofessionalsorpeoplelikemewhoareunlicensedbiohackerswhojustlookatwhatworks.Whatwe’re

findingisthatwekickmoreasswhenweeatmorefat,andthat’sjusthowitis,anditdoesn’tmatterhowmanylowfatshaky,weakpeoplearetellingusthatwe’regoingtodiethatwedon’tlooklikewe’regoingtodie,wedon’tfeellikewe’regoingtodie,ourlabsdon’tlooklikewe’regoingtodie,butbasically,itworks.Jonny,welcometotheshow.

Jonny: Thankyou.

Dave: Thanksforshoutingoutthatthisstuffworks.

Jonny: Thankyousomuch.Ontheroofagain,whenIfirstheardofBulletproof,Iwasactuallyspeakinginaconferenceandyouguyswereexhibiting.IhadnotyetheardofBulletproofCoffeeandasked,“Whatisthisstuff?”Then,youexplainedittome.Youputsomebutterinthecoffee.Igo,“God,thisisexactlywhatI’vebeenbelievinginforthelast15yearsI’vebeentalkingaboutit.Thisisgreat.”I’vealwayshadfoundthatsamesynergyyou’retalkingaboutwhenyoumeetlikemindedspiritswhowouldcometothesameconclusion,readtheresearchinthesameway,trieditintheirownlives,andthenyoufind,“I’mnottheonlyonewho’sbeensayingit.”That’sverynicestill.Thankyouforyourdoingwiththataswell.

Dave: You’resowelcome,Jonny.Inthedarkearlydaysofthisfactthing…

Jonny: Thedarkdays.

Dave: …wehadGaryTaubesjustwroteGoodCalories,BadCalories,averyfamousbook.Forpeoplelisteningwhohaven’treadit,it’stheonlybookI’veeverseenthat’sabout500pageswithoutonewastedword.Everypageisfulloffactsandthisincrediblestorywoveninabouthowweweredeceivedintobelievingthatalowfatdietisanappropriatethingforhumanstodo.Itactuallyisforshortperiodsoftimeforspecificbiologicalreasons,butifyoutryandliveonalowfatdiet,yourlifeisgoingtosuck.That’swhatitcomesdownto.

Jonny: Prettymuch.Prettymuch.Iwasatruebelieverinthat,Dave.Idon’tknowifIevertoldyoumybackgroundstorybutwhenIgotintothe

fieldin1990,itwasalllowfatdietsandaerobicexercise.IstartedasatrainerattheEquinoxFitnessClubs.Weusedthetoolswehad,thefoodpyramid,thestepclasses,aerobics,andtheworstpartofitiswewouldtraintoactuallybelievethatifouroverweightclientsweren’tlosingweight,theywereprobablylyingbecauseweknewthisworked.Weknew.Iftheywereeatingthose…

Dave: Iwasoneofthem.Iwasthat300-poundguywhoworkedoutsixdaysaweekandnoonebelievedme.I’mlike,“Areyoukidding.I’llshowyoumylogs.”

Jonny: Thisisexactlywhatpeoplebelievebecauseit’ssointerestinghowthemindworkslikethat,whenyouhaveabelief.Believeme,thebeliefinlowfatislikeareligiousbelief.It’simpervioustoevidence.Thepeoplewhobelieveitjustwon’tseeanythingthatcontradictsit.Whenyouhaveabeliefthatstrongandtheevidencedoesn’tsupportit,youhavetofindsomethingwrongwiththeevidence.

Whenpeopleweredoingthelowfatdiet,andtaking25stepclassesaday,andnotlosingweight,wehadtothink,“Somethingiswronghere.”Itcan’tbethattheadvicewe’regivingthemiswrongbecauseweknowthatthatisinfallible.Itmustbethatthey’reeithercheatingorthey’renottellingustochoose,anditreallywindsupblamingthevictimbecausethislowfatthingwasthebiggestnutritionalexperimentinhistory.It’samassivefailure.Itdoesn’tworklogically.Itdoesn’tmakesense.Itdoesn’tpassthesmelltest.Ourcavemanancestorsdidn’teatlowfatbullymammoths.Nosocietyonearthhaslivedonalowfat,ornoprotein,ornofatdietever,andyet,wecontinuetoproselytizeforit.

TherearedoctorsinAmericarightnowwhoaregoingineverytalkshowinthecountrytellingpeopleweshouldhavestatindrugsinthewatersupply,andvitaminsjustgiveyouexpensiveurine,andweshouldallbeeatinglowfat.Thoseseemtobethemantrasthattheestablishmentstillembraces.AsyouandIknow,notonlyisitnottrue,it’sverydisruptive,andit’spartofexactlywhythiscountryisfat,sick,tired,anddepressed.

Dave: Someofmyfavoritedetractorssaythingslike,“Itdoesn’twork

becauseitcan’twork.Therefore,itdidn’thappen.”It’sjustbizarre,internal,pretzellogic.Oneofmyfavoriteonesis,“Dave,youneverweighed300pounds.”I’mlike,“There’sapictureofmewhenI’m23inEntrepreneurMagazineandmyfaceisthisbig.”Ievenlookedthesame.Itwaspublished,Idon’tknow,abouthalfamillioncopies,howevermuchthecirculationis.I’mlike,“Idon’tknowhowyoumakethatup.”

Theideathatyoucangofromthattofit,andtodoitwithbutterinsteadofbeatingyourselfuponatreadmill,I’mgratefulthatsuchthingsexist.Thefactthatthere’sachorusofvoicesnowwhoarejuststandingupandsaying,“Youknowwhat,screwthatnoise,”iscool,butwhatIwanttoknowiswhenyouwerethattraineratEquinoxFitnesstellingthefatpeoplethattheywerelyingwhichyouprobablydid…

Jonny: Wedidn’ttellthemthatbutthat’swhatwebelieved.

Dave: Yeah,andlike,“Youjustneedtotryharder.”Myfavoriteis,“Tryharder.It’slike,“I’mputtingeveryounceofenergyIhave.Whatdoyoumeantryharder?I’mpoundingsand,”butwhatwastheonethingthathappenedthatmadeyougo,“Waitaminute.”Whenwasthefirsttimeyourealized,“Wait,thisfatthingmatters.”

Jonny: Twothingshappened.Thefirstwasthatintheearly‘90s,Dr.Atkinshadabehindthescenes.Hefirstpublishedhisveryfirstbook,TheNewDietRevolution,in1972buttherewereacoupleofeditionsafterthat.WhenIgotinthefieldin1998,itwasstartingtogetsomebuzzagainandtherewerestartingtobesomeresearchaboutit.Now,we,thetruebelieversinlowfatandaerobicexercise,it’sallaboutcalories,caloriesin,caloriesout,that’swhatyougetthat,you’reeatingtoomanycalories,thatbeliefsystemobviously,wedidnotbelieveinAtkins.

Wewouldhaveclients,andIrememberoneinparticular,butwehaveclientswhodideverythingwetoldthemjustlikeyoudid,anditdidn’t

work,andagainstouradvice,they’dgoonAtkins.Whatwewouldsay,allofus,thecollectivetrainerbodywouldsay,“Youcan’tdothat.Look,youmightloseapoundortwobutyou’regoingtogetaheartattack.What’sgoingtohappenwithallthatsaturatedfat?Yourcholesterolisgoingtogoup.You’regoingtodie.”

Dave: Stoptheinsanity,theshowwehadrightthen.

Jonny: Stoptheinsanity.Remember,Ishowapictureofherinmyslidepresentation.Whatwouldhappenisthey’ddoitagainstourwishesandagainstouradvice,thenthey’dcomeback,andtheydidn’tdie.Notonlydidn’ttheydie,theyhavebetterbloodpressure,betterbloodlipidtests,theirtriglycerideswoulddroplikearock,theirbellyfatwasstartingtogowaybase.Theylookedbetter,theyfeltbetter,andthispresentedwhatpsychologistscalledcognitivedissonance.Here’stwopiecesofevidencethatdon’tfittogether.Lowfatworksandhighfatkills.Here’sthesepeoplegoingonahighfatdiet.It’snotonlyaretheynotdying,they’re100%better.

Bytheway,Dave,Iwouldseetheseentrenchedbeliefsystemupclose.Thesemenandwomenwouldgototheirdoctors,andtheirdoctorwouldsaytothem,“MyGod,thistestisamazing.Look,youlookfantastic.Youlost4inchesofyou,butthisamazing.Whatdidyoudo?”Theygo,“IwentontheAtkinsdiet.”Theygo,“Youcan’tdothat.Thatisgoingtokillyou.”It’sliketheywouldn’tbelievetheevidenceoftheirsenses.

Thatwasnumberonethatgotmetoquestionwhatwehadbeentaught.It’swhatstartedmeonthepathofbecomingacholesterolskepticbecauseasyouknow,everythingwebelieveaboutfatandcholesterolareabsolutelymarriedtogether.TheyaretheBonnieandClydeofnutrition.Youcan’ttalkaboutonewithouttheother.They’revery,veryinterrelatedbecauseafterall,theonlymainreasonyou’veeverbeentoldnottoeatfatisbecauseitraisesyourcholesterolandweallknowthecholesterolcausesheartdisease.Ifthat’snottrue,thewholethingstartstocollapselikeahouseofcards.Thatwasnumberone.

Numbertwo,veryearly1991,somewherelikethat,anunknown

biochemistfromMIThadjustpublishedabookandhecametogivealectureatEquinox.Hestartedtogetpublicityfromthisbookthatnobodyeverheardof.ThebookturnedouttobeTheZone.TheMITbiochemistwasBarrySears.Hecomesin,andhegivesthislecturetothetrainers,andhetalksabouthowwe’vegotthewholecaloriethingwrongandhowit’sreallyhormonesthatruntheshow,andfoodhasahormonaleffectthatisnotjustaboutthenumberofcaloriesbutitisabouthowthosecaloriesinstructyourhormonestoeitherjumpintoactionorgointohibernation.Thefoodisactuallyinstructingitsinformationforyourhormones.Thiswasaradicalconcept,radical.

Now,Dr.AtkinshavetalkedaboutitwhenhetalkedaboutinsulinbutyouhavetorememberthatDr.Atkinswasapariahinthemedicalcommunity.Everybodyhatedhim.Theyjustthoughthewasaquack.Hewasnotappreciated.Hewassuchageniusbuthewasveryeasytodismiss.Plushewaskamajiandhedidn’tmakealotoffriends.ItwasnotsoeasytodismissthisMITbiochemist,BarrySears.Hestartstalkingaboutthehormonaleffectoffood.IwentuptohimafterwardsandIsaid,“Dr.Sears,ifwhatyou’resayingiscorrect,theneverybodyelseiswrong.”Idon’tknowifyouknowBarrySearsbuthe’snotlackinginconfidence,andhelookedatme,andhesmiledbenevolently,andhesaid,“That’sexactlyright.Everybodyelseiswrong.”

Thosetwothingstogethermademesay,“Waitaminute.Thereismoretothisfatandcholesterolstuffthanwe’vebeentaught,andIwanttogettothebottomofit.”Personally,justasahumanbeing,mydrivingforceinlifeisthatIhatebullies.WhenIwaswatchinghere,itwasbullying.IwaswatchingtheAmericanMedicalAssociation,Iwaswatchingdoctorswhoreallyknownothingaboutnutritionwhoarebeingpompous,andpresumptive,andjusttellingpeoplewhattheyoughttodo,andnotknowingwhattheyweretalkingabout,andIwatchedpeopleliterallybebulliedintothis.

Thevictimizationofobesepeopleremainstobejustacauseofthat

becausethisisthelastacceptableprejudiceinAmerica.ComedianscangoonlatenightTVandmakejokesaboutfatpeopleandpeopledonotunderstandthemillionsofthingsthatactuallygointoweightgain,hormones,metabolism,themicrobiome,guthealth,astretch,there’sjustahundreddifferentfactorsthatnobodyislookingat,andeveryoneisjustsaying,“It’sallaboutdiet.It’sallaboutexercise.It’sallaboutcalories,”andit’snot.Thosewerethethingsthatbeganmeonthejourneyofquestioningtheestablishmentwhenitcametoadviceaboutweightloss.

Ididwanttomakeonecommentaboutthiswholeeatmorefat,andfeelbetter,loseweight,andallthethingsyouandItalkedabout.Mygreatnutritionteacherandmentor,RobertCrayhon,thelategreatRobertCrayhonusedtosay,“TheproblemwiththeAmericanmentalityisitwetellthemsomethinggreataboutfatwhenwetalkaboutthemeta-trainingdietandtheirtakeawayis‘IguessIshouldaddmoreoliveoiltomycornflakes.’”Iwanttobeveryclearthatwe’renottalkingabouttakingyourcrappydietandjustaddingmorefattoit,andmagicallythingsaregoingtochange.

We’retalkingaboutmakingsomeveryimportantsubstitutionshere.Removingsomeoftheinflammatoryomega6fatsthatwe’vebeentaughtaresohealthy.Removingsomeofthecarbohydratesthatdriveinsulinthroughtheroof,andmakeusinflamed,andcontributetoobesity,andreplacingthatstuffwiththehealthyfatsweshouldneverhavetakenoutofourdietinthefirstplace,includingsaturatedfat.

Dave: Whatdoyouthinkabouttheevidence-basedbullieswhoareouttheresaying,“It’sallaboutcaloriesin,caloriesout,yougottoexercisemore?”IstillseethisespeciallyamongthebodybuilderIwanttolookmuscledbutemaciatedintermsofextremeleanthatyouhavethebodybuilderphysiquewhichisprettyamazingwhenyoupullitoffbutIseealotofonlinehatefromthatcrowd.Howdoyourespondtothatperspectives?It’slikethereisnoevidencethatanythingbutcaloriesmakesthedifference.Dolockhiminacaloriechamber?Whatisyourresponsetothat?

Jonny: There’sseveralresponsestoit.

Dave: Otherthanyourmiddlefinger,right?

Jonny: Peoplegetveryattachedtobeliefsystems.Mypreviouslife,myMastersisinPsychologywhichjustservedmeverywellinworkingwithweightlossandwithpersonaltransformation.Bytheway,thisistheperfecttimetopointout,anotherthingthatwesharebesidestheloveoffatandahatredforthebulliesinthisestablishmentwhotellustoeatthedietthatmakesusfat,sick,tired,anddepressed.Asidefromthatisthissensethatthewholecaloriethingisabeliefsystem.Thethingaboutevidence-basedmedicinethatpeoplethrowoutthereallthetimeanditgivesmehivesbecauseitsoundsgreat,itsoundslikewejustwanttodowhatworks,butwhatyouhavetorememberiswhocontrolstheevidence.

Thedrugcompaniesloveevidence-basedmedicinebecausetheyruntheevidence,theyrunthetrials,theycontrolthestudies,andthentheycansay,“Look,statindrugs,wehavetheevidence.”Ifyouknowanythingabouthowresearchisdone,andhowit’sreported,andhowit’sfunded,andhowthewholesystemworks,youknowthatthat’sarigsystemevidence-basedmedicine.Itwouldthrowouteverysinglenaturalremedythat’severbeenusedthateverhasanykindofaclinicaltrackrecord,andnobodywouldeveruseitbecausethere’snoevidenceinthesenseofaclinicaltrial,fourth-levelclinicaltrial,fundedmultimillionsofdollarsbythepharmaceuticalindustry.

I’mnotabigfanofthenotionofevidence-basedmedicine.Again,ImentionedRobertCrayhonearlier.Heusedtohaveawonderfulsaying.He’dsay,“TheentireNewYorkCityFireDepartmentdoesnothaveonerandomizedclinical-controlledstudythatshowsthatwaterputsoutfirebuttheybehavelikeitdoes.”Areyougoingtothrowouttheevidenceofyoursenses,andwhatworks,andwhatyoutry,andwhatyouworkbecausethere’snoevidencethatwasproducedbyapharmaceuticalcompany?Idon’tthinkthat’sgreat.

Dave: That’stheproblemwiththeevidence-basedcommunity.It’snotthat

evidenceisaproblem.Evidenceiswonderfulandclinicianswillrunevidenceeveryday.Asyouthrowthehammer,ithurts.That’sevidence.Ididn’thavetoblindfoldhimandhithimwiththehammerindifferentplacestoseeifithurtshim,right?Weknowsometimesbecausethere’smanydifferentkindsofevidence.Theartofevidence-basedwhateveryou’retryingtodoisprettymuchrejecttheevidenceyoudon’tlikebecauseyousaythisstudywasn’tgoodenough,accepttheevidenceyoulikebecauseitwasdoubleblind,andthenignorealltheclinicaldata,ignorealltheclinicians,andignoremillionsofpeoplewhogotbetterdoingwhateveritwasbecauseyoudon’tlikeit.Youdon’tlikeitbecauseitcan’tworkbecauseofyour…

Jonny: Becauseyouknowitdoesn’twork.Becauseyouknowthatitdoesn’twork.

Dave: Yeah,it’sbecauseofyourdogmaticbeliefs.It’sactuallylikeaself-torturecyclethere.I’mallforevidence.Ifyouwanttosaywhatyou’redoingisevidence-based,whatyou’reactuallydoingisyou’resaying,“Everyonewhodoesn’tagreewithmeisacon.”Ifthat’stheworldyou’recomingfrom,Idon’tneedtospendmytimeonyoubecauseyoudon’tunderstandbasicscience.Infact,you’verejectedbasicsciencebyworshipingonthealtarof,“Ionlytakeoneofsixorsevenkindsofevidence,andIamblindtotherestoftheworldbecauseofmybeliefsystems.”It’slikegotoanISIS.That’swhereyoubelong.

Jonny: Yeah.No,Icouldn’tagreemore.Thewholebeliefinthecaloriething,Ithinkwe’rebeginningtoseeacriticalmess,andpeopleinrespectedmainstreampeopleevenmovingawayfromthecaloriesorthewholestorything.WithDavidLudwigatHarvard,youcannotgetmorecredentialthanthisguy.

Dave: He’sagreatguy,right?

Jonny: He’sunbelievable.Whenhejustpublishedabookaboutitandsaid,“Dude,sorrybutitain’tworking,’becauseasBarrySearstaughtmeback25yearsago,foodhasahormonaleffect.InourbookinSmartFat,thankyouformentioning,weactuallygobeyondthegoodfat,bad

fatdichotomywhichissowillfullyoutofdate.It’slikethegoodcholesterol,badcholesterolstuff.We’vegonesofarbeyondthat.Wenowknowthere’sfivedifferentkindsofLDLcholesterol,fivedifferentkindsofHDL.Theyoperatedifferently.

Thesamethingwithgoodfat,badfat.Thefactthatsomefatisgoodandsomeisbadisnotrevolutionaryornew.Ifthat’sallwehadtosay,wewouldn’twriteabook.Whatwedohereistodividethatintermsofwhetherornotit’stoxic.Thisissuchadifferentwayoflookingoffatthantheconventionalway.Dave,oneofthebullyingprinciplesthathasdrivenmecrazyallalongisthisnotionthatsaturatedfatisbad,animalproductsarebad,everythingelseisgood.

Infact,here’swhattheevidencereallyshows,thevegetableoilsthatyou’veallbeentoldtoeatthatissupposedtobesohealthy,weweresupposedtoswapeverythingoutforcanolaoil,andsoybeanoil,andcottonseedoil,andcornoil,andallofthesethingsthatwegotridoflard.Rememberinthe‘80s,everybodydecidednaturalhealthyfatslikelardarebadsotheyallswitchedovertocanolaoilsothat’sreallygoodnow.Thosearethemostinflammatoryoilsontheplanet.They’rehighlyrefined,loadedwithomega6swhicharetheprecursorsfortheinflammatorycascadeinthebody.Now,weneedsomeomega6sbuttheyneedtobeinbalancewithouranti-inflammatoryomega3s.Theyshouldbeinaboutaone-to-oneproportion.Weconsumeabout16timesmoreomega6sbecauseweallthinkvegetableoilissogood.Notagoodfat.

Ontheotherhand,thesaturatedfatswe’vebeentoldissobadareonlybadwhentheycomefromfeedlotsfarms.LetmegiveyouagreatexampleofthisthatIthinkmostpeoplecanunderstand.IliveinSouthernCalifornia.Aboutayearortwoago,wehadabige-coliscare,anditwastracedtospinach.Itwastracedtothisonefarmthatwasmakingspinachcontaminated.

Dave: No,no,no.Sorry.Sorry,spinachisplant-based.Itcan’tbebadforyou.

Jonny: You’reright,exactly.Itcan’tbebad.Notonehealthprofessional,not

onewentontheairandsaid,“Don’teatspinach.It’sbadforyou.”Theyallunderstoodthatsomethinghadbeencontaminatedhere.Itwasn’t,“Don’teatspinach.Recallthespinachthatwascontaminated.”No,wealleatspinach.

Thesamethingistruewithanimalfats.Theyarenotbadbecausetheycomefromanimals.Theyarebadbecausetheycomefromcontaminatedanimalsbecauseinfeedlotfarms,here’swhathappens,numberone,they’renothinglikefarms.They’remegaagribusinessesofthousandsofacresofcattlekeptintinylittlestalls.Firstofall,they’refedgrain,nottheirnaturaldiet,makestheirstomachacid.Secondofall,they’refedtonsofantibiotics.Thirdofall,they’refedsteroids,bovinegrowthhormone.Allthesethingstofattenthemup.Theirfatabsorbsallthepesticidesinthegrainsthattheyshouldn’thavebeeneatinginthefirstplace.Then,theyhavetogetmoreantibioticsbecausetheirstomachsgetacid.You’vegotatoxicwastedumpofananimalhere.Then,you’reeatingitandyou’regoing,“Animalfoodisbad.”No.Thatanimalfoodisbad.

Ifyougotoarealfarm,andyougetpasture-raisedcowswheretheygrazehappilyongrass,andeatsomeworms,andinsects,andtheiromega3contentishigh,andtheydon’teatgrainssotheydon’thaveacidsinstomach,andthey’renotinantibiotics,thatisahealthfood.There’sanenormousdifferencebetweensaturatedfatoranyfatthatcomesfromatoxicdumpandsaturatedoranyfatthatcomesfromahealthyanimalorahealthyplant.

That’sthedistinctionwemakeinSmartFat,notthedifferencebetweenanimalversusvegetableorsaturatedversusunsaturatedbutbetweentoxicandnontoxic.Then,there’sawholeclassoffatthatwecallneutralwhichyes,there’snotmassivehumanevidencethatshowsthatthey’renecessarilybeneficialtheway,say,thefatincoconutoiloroliveoilisbutthere’salsonotashredofevidencethatthey’reharmfulsothey’reneutralandyoucaneatasmuchofthemasyouwant.

Dave: Althoughifyoueatasmuchoftheneutralfatsasyouwant,you’reprobablyeatingfewerofthebetterfats,right?

Jonny: Probablysobut…

Dave: Thereisadistinction.

Jonny: You’reabsolutelyrightbutwhatI’msayingisthatthisisamuchmore

importantdistinctionbetweentheoldgoodandbadfatthatwasdividedaccordingtosaturatedversusunsaturated.That’sjustnotso.

Dave: Oneofthebiggestfactorsinmyresearchthat’snotwellunderstoodissomethingthatyoutouchedoninSmartFatistheideathatfatitselfisatoxinstore.Ifyoutakeafatpersonandyoubiopsytheirfat,andyoulookatmercury,youlookatlotsofthepesticides,youlookatendocrinedisruptors,thebodyusesfatasastorageorganfortoxinsthatcannotbemetabolizedintheliverbecausetheliverisoverloaded.Toxicityisadriverofobesity,andthere’satypeoftoxinthat’smadebyMotherNatureandbymen,organophosphatesarethemanmadeonesandmycotoxins,thetoxinsfrommoldinfood,specificallymoldygrainwhichisamajorissueinagriculture.

Thesetoxinsarecalledlipophilic.Thatmeansthattheyarefat-lovingandtheydissolveintofatthesamewaythatfoodcolordissolvesintoaglassofwater.Then,youeatthatfatanditgoesintotheanimal’sfat.Weeattheanimal’sfat,itgoesintoourfat.Thesetoxinsarecorrelatedwithneurodegenerativeillness,withcancer,andspecificallywithlesionsinyourarteries.

Whenpigseatmycotoxin-contaminatedgood,theygetatherosclerosis.Whenweeatpigsthatatemycotoxin-contaminatedfood,arewegoingtogetatherosclerosis?Ibelievesoandit’soneofthereasonswhatyourpigateactuallymatters.Apigthatatefreshfoodisgoingtobeareallyamazingsourceofbacon.Apigthatateindustrialgrainthathadthehighestpossibleoflimitofmoldthatwouldn’tkillthepigwhichiswhattheydobecausemoldygrainischeaper,thenyoushouldexpecttofeellikecrapandbeinflamedafteryoueatyourbacon.That’showitworks,right?

Jonny: Yeah,that’sexactlyright.Yousaidbeautifully,andaccurately,andIwisheverybodywouldtakethathome,andtattooitunderneaththeireyelidsbecausethatisthetruthaboutit.Ithasnothingtodowithwhetherornotthesourcewasapigorasoybeanfield.Ithastodowithwhetherornotthathasbeencontaminated.Asyoupointoutsoaccurately,weallstoretoxinsinourfat.Everymammalontheplanetdoes,sodothecowsthatarecomingfromfactoryfeedlots,andthepigsthatcomefromthat.

Evenifyouweren’tananimalrightspersonasIam,oryoudidn’tcareaboutanimals,ifforselfishreasons,youshouldcareabouthowthey’retreatedifyou’reeatingthembecauseit’savery,verydifferentanimalpardoneduponagrass-fedcowandafactoryfeedlotfarmedcowarenotthesameanimalsfromahealthpointofview.

Dave: That’sdefinitelyapointwhereweagreeradically.Now,whenyoulookatvegetable-basedfats.

Jonny: Yeah,goahead.

Dave: Wehavethiswholelikeofifit’splant-based,itmustbegoodforyou.There’splant-basedproteinsandthere’splant-basedfats.Myfavoriteplant-basedproteinisSarin,thenervegas,theonethatkilledallthepeopleintheTokyosubway.Itisaplant-basedproteinwhichisabsoluteproofthatplant-basedproteinsarebadforyou,exceptthatthatkindoflogicofplant-basedandanimal-basedismeaningless.

Ifwerejectthatandwesaytherearesomeoils.Someoilscomefromdifferentplants.Someoilscomefromdifferentanimals.Youcantakeanimalfatandbreakitintoallofitslittletypesofsubcomponentfats.Youcantakevegetablefatandbreakitintoallofitslittlesubcomponentparts.Youcouldrearrangethemondifferentglycerolmoleculesasthetriglycerides.Medium-chaintriglycerides,mightwesay?Iusesomeofthemedium-chaintriglyceridesbutnotalloftheminmyproducts.Whatarethetypesoffats?Whetherthey’refromvegetablesoranimals,Iactuallydocare,butwhataresomeofthetypesoffatsthatstandoutasmostmetabolicallybeneficialinyour

Jonny: Certainlysinceyoustartedwithcoconutoil,that’sagreatone.Bytheway,mayIgiveyoukudostoyourbrainoctanebecauseafterIinterviewedyouformyTheTruthaboutFatLossSummit,youtalkedaboutthedifferencebetweenconventionalMCToil,thefatsthatarefoundincoconutoil,alotofpeopleusecoconutoilandgettheMCTsthatway.SometimestheyusepurifiedMCToilandyouhavethatbrainoctane.YouweresoconvincingthatIorderedtwobottlesofitfromyourwebsite,andtheywillnowtryitfrommycolddeadhandsbecauseIusethateverysingleday.Certainly,MCToil,whetheritthepurifiedformofbrainoctaneorwhetherinanotherhighqualityform,isonethatIthinkwecansayhavegoodhealthbenefitsassociatedwithit.

Dave: Bytheway,we’reabouttoreleaseastudyshowingahugedifferenceinthenumberofketonesformedfrombrainoctaneversuscoconutoil.TheevidenceisinfromamajorUniversityofCaliforniasource.Ican’twaittopublishthatbecauseit’sgoingtoblowthewateroutofthefact.

Jonny: Yeah,Iloveyourbrainoctane.There’sone.TherearesomeoilsthatI’llbeveryhonestwithyou,myco-authorandIdidn’tquite…IwouldhaveMalaysianpalmoilassmartfat.Stephendidn’tfeeltherewasyetenoughhumanresearchtosaythatthisisdefinitelyabeneficialfat.Hewastotallyinagreementthatit’sgottenabadrepandthere’snothingwrongwithit.Iwouldgoalittlefurther.IthinkI’mactuallyleaningtowardsfeelingthatthere’senoughresearchtosaythatthisisasmartfat.Inanycase,it’sloadedwithcarotenoids.It’sloadedwithtocotrienols.That’swhatgivesittheredcolor.That’sagreatoil.

Dave: Ihaveaquestiononthatone.

Jonny: Yeah.

Dave: I’mafanoftocopherolsandtocotrienols.Itakethemconcentratedbutpalmiticacidescortslipopolysaccharides,theseisarethetoxinsfromgutbacteria,rightacrossthegutmembraneandincreasetheirtoxicity

whichiswhypalmoilformeisonthesuspectfoods.It’smuchbetterthanvegetableoilbutithasthatweaknessthatcoconutoilandfishoilandthingsdon’thave.Thatwasmybigconcern.Doyouhaveanycommentsonthat?

Jonny: No.You’realittlefurtheradvanceinthebiochemistryspectrumthanIam.Ihavenotseenanynegativesassociatedwiththat.Maybeintheproportionthatit’sfoundinpalmoilasanoveralloil,Ithinkit’sprettygood,buttogointothelesscontroversialareasofoilsandfatsthathavebeenfoundtohavebeneficial,certainlyoliveoilinalltheMediterraneandietstudies,and…

Dave: Isitokaytocookwitholiveoil?Ihaveanopiniontherebutwhat’syourtake?

Jonny: Italldependsonthetemperature.Actually,IwilltellyouoneofthethingsIlearnedfrommyco-author,StephenMasley,hewasatrainedchef.HetookayearandactuallystudiedattheFourSeasonsforayearwhilehewasinmedicalschool.Whatwelearnedaboutthat,andIhadtocorrectsomeofmypreviousbeliefsaboutoils,isthatthesmokepointofoilisthepointatwhichitbecomessomethingelseandwhenitactuallyconvertstosubstancesyoudon’twant.Youneverwanttocookitwithanoilatitssmokepoint.Ihadalwaysbelievedcoconutoil,youcancookit5-600.Youcan’t.

Dave: No.No,youcan’t.

Jonny: It’sgotasmokepointof250.Now,whenyourefineoils,youcangoatahighersmokepointbutyougotlessgoodstuffinitsothere’sthetradeoff.

Dave: Brainoctanewouldgoto320.

Jonny: Let’sstillnotdeepfryingbutyouandIdon’trecommenddeepfryinganyway.

Dave: Youshouldn’tdipfryanythinganyways.It’sjustbad.Eventheoilis

amazing,itwon’tbeamazingwhenyou’redonedeepfrying.

Jonny: Canyoucookwitholiveoil?Youhavetothinkofitthisway,whydowepaysomuchmoneyfortrueextravirginoliveoil?

Dave: Exactly.

Jonny: Thatwasoliveoil,it’sclosetoabunchofoldGreekmenwalkingaroundwithwinebottlesandpressingitoutwithamechanicalpressintheirfeet.There’snohightemperaturesassociatedwithrealextravirginoliveoil.Youpayextraforitbecausethetemperaturehasdestroyedthisveryvaluablepolyphenolsthatarefoundintheoliveoil.Whywouldyoupaytwicethemoneyforextravirginoliveoilandthencookitat400degrees?Itmakesnosenseatall.You’rethengoingtodestroytheverythingyoupaidextratohave.

Iwouldsaythatwithextravirginoliveoil,youshouldnotcookwithit.It’sbestfordrizzlingandlastminuteputtingonatstufforsaladdressings.Whenyougettovirginoliveoilorjustplainoldoliveoil,yes,youcancookinhighertemperatureswithitbutofcourse,itdoesn’thaveallthewonderfulstuffinitthattheextravirginoliveoilhas.

Dave: OneofmyfavoriteItalianrecipes,thisisnotintheBulletproof:TheCookbook,butit’sBeefTagliatelle.Youtakeapieceofbeefandyoucookitrelativelyrare,andyouslice,andyoupourextravirginoliveoilinit.Notice,youdidn’tpouroilinit,thencookit.Youdiditintherightorder.

Jonny: Yeah,yeah,yeah.Verynice.

Dave: Doyouagreewiththat?That’sbeenoneofmyfindings.

Dave: Iagreewiththatandthere’safewpeoplelikeChrisKresserwrotesomethingrecentlysaying,“It’sokay.There’snoevidenceusingsomeofthesethings.”There’ssomethingaboutbloodsugardeclineafterit,butIfoundtheevidencetobeunconvincingandthebiochemistryis

prettyclear.Heat,lightandairmessupoliveoil.Oliveoilhasmorepolyphenols.Itstandsupbetterthanoliveoilstrippedoffthepolyphenolsbutit’sstillnotagoodidea.There’sjustnoreasontodoit.Usebutter,itissimplyabetterchoice.Useghee.Usecoconutoil.Frankly,ifyoudidaddsomewatersothatthetemperaturewon’trisetoomuch,thenyouprotecttheoil.Ifyouwanttodeepfrysomething,goingintotoTwinkie,deepfriedfoodisneverhealthynomatterwhatoilyouuse.

Jonny: Verywellput.IwouldaddtothedelusivefabulousoilsthatIwasn’tquiteasawareoftheavocadooil.Smokepointof520.Dude,ifyoucan’tcookyourselfin520,there’ssomethingwrongwithyou.Thatstandsuptheheatverywell,andit’sloadedwithOmega9s,andverygoodoilforyou.Again,likeyouandIwouldprobablyagree,I’mabigfanofsaturatedfat.Ieatbacon.IdidawebinaractuallyinpromotingtheSmartFatlaunchcalledWhyaTopNutritionistNeedsBaconwhereIdeconstructedalloftheobjectionstobaconandshowedhowyoucancookitinahealthywayandhowyoucaneatitinahealthywaybecausewhenit’snitrate-free,notcookedinhighheat,andcomesfrompasturedpork,that’sadamnhealthfood.Letmetellyourightthere,it’saperfectproportionoffatandprotein.

Dave: Imakemyownbaconandoneofmyveryfavoritethingstodo,andit’ssomethingthat’sinBulletproof:TheCookbookandit’sinBulletproofDiet,isduringsummer,yougetmuchbetterqualitypork,summerandfall,becauseduringwinter,theyfeedspoiledfood.There’smorestoredgrainandthere’smorebuildupofthesetoxinsinpigs.Pigsmetabolizetoxinsthesamewayhumansdowiththeirkidneysinsteadoftheirlivers,likeratsandsomeotheranimals,likecowshavethreestomachsthatdealwithtoxins.Pigfatstorestoxinsthesamewaywestoretoxinsandwebothsuckatdetox.Thatmakespigsagoodmodelforwhathumansdoanditmeansthattheirfatisextradelicious.Theonlyproblemisthatifyou’reeatingwinterandspringpork,yourchancesofbeinginflamedthenextday,notbecauseyougotbadfat,butyoubecauseyougotfat-solubletoxinsinthefat,itgoesthewayup.

Jonny: Interesting.

Dave: Everysummer,IbuyeightortenporkbelliesfromHeritageBreed.I

liveonVancouverIsland.It’safarmingcommunity.IlivehereforareasonbecauseI’monanorganicfarmsoIcouldeatallthisstuff.Ibuythose.Iputtheminthefreezer.Then,Imakebaconoutofit.Sometimes,youjustcutitoutandyouroastahunkofporkbellythisbig.Ifyou’relisteningontheradio,I’mtalkinglikethesizeofasheetofpaper.Youroastthat,youscoretheskin,andit’smykids’favoritedish.It’sjustsogoodandyougetafoodeyefromitbecauseyou’reeatingcleanfat.It’stherightkindoffatandit…

Jonny: Itsoundsgreat.Itsoundsgreat.

Dave: It’slifechangingtodothat.

Jonny: I’llbet.Thatsoundswonderful.

Dave: Let’stalkaboutomega3toomega6ratiosbecauseIknowyouwriteaboutthatinSmartFat.What’syourtakeontheidealratioinfoodandinhumanswhenyoudoalabtest?

Jonny: It’saverysimpleanswer,1:1.Look,letmegiveyoutheshort15-secondelevatorspeechaboutomegasandinflammation.Weneedbothinflammatoryandanti-inflammatorycompoundsinourbody,peopleoftensayandomega6swhicharepredominantinthevegetableoilswe’vebeentoldtoeatarepro-inflammatory.Inotherwords,thelittlehormonescalledeicosanoidsthatactuallycauseinflammation.Theinflammatoryonescomefromomega6andtheanti-inflammatoriescomefromomega3s.

Now,weneedboth.Peopleaskmeallthetime,“Whatdoweneedinflammationfor?”Thinkaboutthehealingresponse.Thinkaboutifyougetasplinterandwhathappensinthearea,itgetsswollen.Whatisthat?That’saninflammatoryresponse.Thewhitebloodcellsgo.Theysurroundthepuncturewound.Theytrytopreventamicrobefromgettingaholdandstartinganinfection.Theareafillswithfluidandwater.Inflammatoryresponseispartofthehumanresponse.It’s

whyyougetatemperatureandwhyyougetafever.It’sthebody’swayofdealingwiththat.Youneedsomeinflammation,theabilitytoforminflammatorycompoundsinthebodyaspartofthehealingprocess.

Problemisyou’vegotthesearmies.You’vegotyourinflammatoryarmyandthat’sbeingfueledbyomega6sandyougotyouranti-inflammatoryarmythat’sbeingfueledbyomega3s.Whentheyareinbalance,everythingisgood,lifeiswonderful.Whenyoufundtheinflammatoryarmywith16timesmorefundsthanyou’regivingtheanti-inflammatoryarmy,youareindeepdoo-doo.

Alltheresearch,andI’vegotthemasterbookofresearchonthisrighthereinfrontofme.It’sthevolume100oftheWorldConferenceofDietetics.Theydidanentireresearchreportonthebalancebetweenomega3sandomega6s,andhowthisrelatestocardiovasculardisease.Theresearchisveryclearthatwearegetting,atminimal,16timesmoreomega6sinourdietthanomega3s.Then,wewonderwhywe’reinflamed,andinflammationisatthecoreofeverymajordegenerativediseaseweknowoffromAlzheimer’s,tocancer,todiabetes,toobesity,toheartdisease.

Weareliterallyfuelingtheinflammatoryarmybyeatingsomanyomega6s.IfyouthinkabouteveryprocessedfoodinAmerica,youcannotswingaropeinthegrocerystorewithoutfindingsoybeanoil,andcottonseedoil,andcornoil,andpartiallyhydrogenated,nothydrogenated,they’reallvegetableoils.It’s16timesmoreandthat’sabigpartofwhywe’resoinflamed.

Dave: IntheBulletproofDiet,Ifoundnumbersrangedfrom16to40,upto40times.

Jonny: 16isconservative.Ihaveafeelingit’smuchhigher.That’swhattheresearchwasabletodocumentandIthinkit’smuchhigherincertainpartsofthecountry.

Dave: Forpeoplelistening,whatthismeansisthatifyouwouldtakeanobesepersonwhoeatsthestandardAmericanprocessedfastfoodand

restaurant,evennotfastfood,justrestaurantfoods,becausetheyputtheseoilsallovertheplaceinrestaurants,whattheyhaveis40timesmoreomega6thanomega3oilsintheirbody.Thatisoddbecauseyourcellmembraneswhicharemadeoflittletinydropletsoffat,theyneedacertainamountofundamagedomega6.It’scriticallyimportant.Ifyoudon’thavesomeofthat,you’regoingtobeintrouble,butwhatyou’reeatingisyou’reeatingmassesofdamagedomega6becausetheyfriedinit,theycookwithit,andthisstuffisunstableanyway.Itbasicallygoesrancid.Itoxidizesduringmanufacturewhentheyusesolventsinitandwhenit’sputinplasticbottlesandthings.

Whenyouincorporatethisdamagedomega6inexcessinyourcellmembranes,you’recreatingfreeradicalsthroughoutthebodyandthat’sthesourceofinflammationbuttheanti-agingpeople.Jonny,I’veranananti-agingresearchandeducationgroupcalledtheSiliconValleyHealthInstituteformorethanadecadeandit’sgivenmeachancetolearnallofthethingsIknowandtointerviewlots,hundredsofexpertsonthesethings.Thegeneralconsensustherewasaratioof4:1.You’dhearthisattheAmericanAcademyofAnti-AgingMedicine.Iwastherethisyear.Imetmywifethere11yearsago.ThesearemypeopleeventhoughI’mnotadoctor.

WhenIlookedatthat4:1andIlookedatmynumbers,I’vegottenmyselfdownto1:1onoccasion.Rightnow,I’mat1.7:1.TheguywhoisthemostaggressiveI’veevermetwho’saprofessor,ProfessorLarrySmarrfromUCSanDiego,hewasdownto0.86:1.He’stheonlyguywhohavereallybeatmeintermsofthatratio,butI’mconcernedat1:1thatyourcellmembranesactuallymightnothaveenoughomega6tohaveappropriatefluidity.Areyou100%certainthat1:1istherightratioversus2:1or3:1becauseI’mnot.Iknowit’saround4anditmightbeloweroritmightbesethigher,butwheredoesthatcomefrom?

Jonny: ThenumberthatIhavealwayswrittenandstoodbyistherangeofbetween1:1and4:1.

Dave: Anywiththerange,allright.

Jonny: Yeah,I’mcoolwiththerangeof1:1to4:1.The1:1comesfromthe

BoydEatonoriginalpaperonthePaleolithicdietthatwaspublishedoneitherJEMAonNewEnglandJournal,Idon’trememberwhich.It’saclassicpaperonthepaleodietthatstartedthewholethinggoing.ItwasevenbeforeLorenCordain’sbookcameout.Thatwasabout1:1.Infact,someresearchinthatworld,thethingondieteticsthatItoldyouaboutwhenItalkedaboutratio,foundthatsomePaleolithicorhuntergatherersocietiesactuallyconsumed0.7:1.Itwasactuallyevenlessthan1:1,butI’mverycomfortablewiththeratioofbetween1:1and4:1.

TheonethingIwouldsaytoyouaboutyourfriendsandthepeoplewhoaremeasuringyourbloodandlookingatthatisthatthedietaryratiomaynotnecessarilybethesameastheidealratiointheblood.

Dave: That’sexactlyright.

Jonny: Ifyou’relookingatthisguyis0.86:1,thatmaynothaveaperfectcorrelationwiththedietaryintake.Ithinkfordietaryintake,I’mcomfortablewithsayinganywherebetween1:1and4:1butnot16:1,not40:1,not50:1,notwhatwe’reconsuminginAmerica.

Dave: TheimplicationhereissomethingIdid.IwasahugeBarrySearsfanwhenhefirstcameoutbackinthelate‘90swhenhisowndietfirstcameoutanditdidmakeadifferenceforme.IsawhalfmyweightbutI’veplayedwithAtkinsbutitwason.Ireallygotintothenutoilsandeatingalmondsbecauseyouneedthatomega3butwhatIfoundwasthat,andIwasarawvegantoowhereIeattonsofnuts,butnutsareactuallynotthatgoodforyou.They’reallinthesuspectfoodcategorybecausealthoughtheyhavesomefatinthemandbecausethey’rerelativelylowsugar,ifyoueatwaytoomanynuts,youaregoingtogetmoreomega6thanyouwant.

I’mafanofeatingnutsbutwhenyoudoit,someinthepaleocommunityhavedoneovertimes,like,“Look¸it’sapaleodessert.”It’slikepoundsandpoundsofnutsandawholebunchofdateswhichare

actuallysugar.Somehowthatmakesit“paleo”becausethereisn’talegaldefinitionofpaleo.ThatconcernsmebecausewhenIwaseatingmassesofnuts,myinflammationwasnotlow.WhenIatemoderateamountsofnuts,myinflammationwasundercontrol.Funny,that’swhatthebiochemistrysaysshouldhappenbutnutsbythemselvesaren’tgoodorbad.Excessivenessarebad.Nonutsisprobablyokay.Amodernamountofnutsisgreat.

Jonny: Yeah.Tospeaktothat,andIthinkit’sagreatplacetotakeabird’seyeviewofallthisisI’mnotafanofanyreligiousfollowingofanydietaryprinciplesofpaleo,youcan’teatbeans,andthisoneyou’vegottoeatlotsofit.Ifindthatthatkindofslavishfollowingofanydietaryprinciples,includingmyown,isverymisguidedandultimatelynotbeneficial,anditgoesmysecondpointwhichisbiochemicalindividuality.Ithinkthisissomethingthatyouagreewithandit’ssomethingthatI’veembracedeversincemyfirstnutritionclassever.

Itcomesfromabookthatwaswritteninthe‘50sbyadoctornamedDr.RogerWilliamswhoactuallyinventedVitaminB5ordiscoveredvitaminB5,pantothenicacid.HewrotethisbookcalledBiochemicalIndividuality.Whathehaddonewashedidatonofautopsiesandatonofliveanalysisandthingslikeanumberofbetacellsinthepancreas,thenthesizeofthethyroidgland,justeverypossiblemeasurementandmetricyoucouldgoinnormalpeople,andhefoundarangethatwasalloverthemapintermsoftheeffectivenessofyourcytochromeP450,enzymesintheliverthatdetox,thesizeofthethyroidgland,thesizeofjustaboutanyorganyoucanname,enormousvariations.

Ialwayscomebacktothisinsaying,whenyoutalkabouttoomuchofnutscanbeagoodthing,toolittle,thatit’salwaysgoingtocomedowntowhatfitsyou,notwhat’sthebestdietbutwhat’sthebestdietforyou,theperson.Thatmaymeanit’ssomethingthatthebiochemistrysaysshouldbefineorit’ssomethingthatthebiochemistrysaysshouldnotbefine.Maybejustperfectforyouormaybeterribleforyou.

IndoingmyFatLossSummit,IinterviewedGaryTaubes,forexample.

Hesaid,“Iknewatage4,Iwasallergictocorn.Itdoesn’tmatterifcornisgood,bad,orindifferent.Ican’teatcorn.”I,JonnyBowden,don’tdrinkalcohol.Weallhaveourcurseofwhatdoesn’tworkforus.Itdoesn’tmatterthatthere’samillionstudyshowingthattwodrinksofalcoholadaylowerstheriskofheartattack.Notforme.Maybewhateverthefoodwasthattriggeredsomeofyourresearchandthingsthathavemoldinthemandthingslikethatthatmaybemanyofusaren’tawaredidn’tworkforyou.

Ialwaysencouragepeople,forme,mymissioninlifeistogetpeopletobetheleaderoftheirownhealthteamandnottonecessarilyfollowtheguruswhetherit’dbeme,oryou,oranybody,buttofindtheirownpathandtousewhatwetellthemasguidelinestotestthingsoutandseeifitworksornot.Ifitdoesn’t,throwitout.Idon’tcarewhattheauthoritiessay.

Dave: WhatarethethingsthattookthemosttimeinwritingtheBulletproofDietisIdevelopedtheroadmap.Thesethings,foralmosteveryone,aregoingtomakeyoukickass,gheeandstufflikethat.There’sabigbroadsetofstuffinthemiddleofthatthatIcallsuspectfoodsandthereasonisfor20%ofthepopulation,thistotallymessesyouup.You’reprobablyeatingthosethingseverydayandyoudon’tknowit.Thisotherone,40%ofthepopulationhasproblemswithitbuttheydon’tknowit.Forthisotherone,it’s30%.

Youthrowallthistogether,andyou’relike,“Look,unlessyoueliminateallthethingsthatarecausingproblemsforalittlewhile,you’llneverknowwhichsuspectsareguiltybecauseyoualwaysfeelalittlebitlikecrapevenifyoudon’tknowit.”Itwasthatamountofscience.Icantell,forme,Iknoweverysinglesourceofkryptoniteinfood.Everythingthatmakesmeweak,Inotice.Everythingthatmakesmestrong,Inotice.WhatIeatandwhatyoueat,likeyousaid,they’renotthesame.HowmuchcarbdoIneed?I’vetitratedit.Howmuchcarbdoyouneed?Idon’tknowbutIcantellyouthetimethat’sthebesttimetoeatitformostpeople,andyoumaybebizarreandyouneedfruitloopsinthemorning.Ijustdon’treallythinkthat’slikely.

Jonny: Icouldn’tagreewithyoumore.Inworkingwithclients,Idon’tdoitanymoreone-on-onebut10to15yearsofdoingit,onethingIlearnedisthattherearepeoplewhowilldrinkcoffeelateatnightandgorighttosleep,andtherearepeoplewhowouldtakeavalet,andthengooutandparty.Thereisahuge,huge,hugevariationinhowpeoplerespondtosubstancesandtheactionisnotfindingtheperfectsystembutinhonoringyourownindividualdifferencesanddecidingwhatworksforyou.Ithinkthat’ssomethingyouwouldprobablyagreewith.Tome,that’sprobablythemostimportantmessageofall.

Dave: Absolutely.We’reupontheendoftheshow,Jonny,andIwanttoaskyouaquestion.I’mreallyinterestedtohearyouranswer.

Jonny: Sure.

Dave: Ineveryepisode,Iaskthesamequestion.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrowandsaid,“Look,basedoneverythingthatyou’velearned,everythingyou’veexperiencedinyourlife,whatwouldyoutellmeifIsaidIwanttokickmoreassatlife.IwanttobebetterateverythingIdo.WhatarethethreethingsIneedtoknowthatmatterthemost?”

Jonny: It’savery,verygoodquestion.ThefirstthingI’dprobablytellthemistostopbelievingtheexpertsnomatterwhatit’sonandnomatterwhatthesubjectsthatwe’retalkingabout.Thatwouldbeagoodstartingspotorusingexpertinformationinadifferentway.WhenIwasingraduateschool,therewasabookthatwasmyfavoritebookever,anditwascalled,you’llunderstandimmediatelyjustfromthetitle,itwascalledIfYouMeettheBuddhaontheRoad,KillHim.Itwasabookaboutnotfollowinggurusandnotthinkingsomebodyhasalltheanswers.Thatwouldbenumberone.

Tome,justinmypersonallife,andmypersonalexperiences,andthechallengesI’vegonethroughbetweenaddictionandyounameit,Ithinkthatthegreatestsourceofthatperformancethatyou’retalkingaboutwheretheywanttokickass,andtheywanttobemore,andtheyjustwanttobreakthroughwalls,andshinealwayscomesfromtheembracingthedarksideofyourself.Allthestuffwekeephidden,and

wetrynottoshowpeople,andthatwethinkisshamefulandwrong,whenweembracethatandhandleitforthegoodandembraceit,ourperformancejustallofasuddenwouldbecomewhoweare.

Lookatitinpolitics,Iknowthisisgoingtobeevergreenandpeoplewouldprobablylistentothisacoupleofyearsfromnow,butrightnow,we’rein2016inthemiddleoftheprimaries,andwhoiswinning?Twocompletelydifferenthumanbeingswhocouldn’tbemoredifferentandalltheyshareisthey’reauthentic.Youmaynotlikethembutthey’reauthentic.Authenticitywinsouteverytime.Whetheritcomestoperformance,orshining,orbreakingthrough,it’salwaysgoingtobeaboutembracethatstuff.

AllenStonehasagreatsongwherehetalksaboutwhatyou’redoingoutside.Actuallyembracethatstuffthatyou’vebeenkeepingquietorkeepingundertheradar,andwhenyoureallyembracethat,andyoubecomemoreofwhoyouareinthebestway,andyouactuallythinklessaboutyourselfandmoreaboutwhatyoucancontributetoothers,itskyrocketsyouinwaysyoucannotpossiblyanticipate.

Dave: Beautifulanswers.ThanksJonnyandthanksforbeingonBulletproofRadio.YourbookiscalledSmartFat,co-authoredwithStephenMasley,andwhatURLshouldpeoplegotoifthey’dliketolearnmore?

Jonny: Smartfat.comand,ofcourse,mywebsite,jonnybowden.com,noHinJonny.

Dave: J-O-N-N-Y-Bowden-dot-com.

Jonny: Right,andsmartfat.com

Dave: Smartfat.com.We’llputthoselinksintheshownotes.

Jonny: Thankyou.

Dave: Ifyouenjoyedtoday’sepisode,youcangetafulltranscriptofitforfreeonbulletproofexec.com,andwe'velinkedallthecoolstuffwetalked

about.Ifyou’dliketosaythanks,IwanttotellyouaboutsomethingthatIalmostnever…IthinkInevertalkedaboutitonBulletproofRadiobutI’mgoingtoshowittoyoubecauseit’ssomethingthatI’mreallypleasedwith.BulletproofHotChocolate.

Now,ifyou’rewatchingonYouTube,IjustheldupthecanalmostlikeIwaspitchingsomethingbutI’mgoingtotellyousomethingthatyoudon’tknowabout.Hotchocolateisamazingwhenyoumakeitwiththerightchocolateandwithyoursugarinit.There’stimeswhenyouwanttogivestufftoyourkids.Mykids,theydrinkBulletproofCoffee.Theygetalittleoneortwoounceexhibit,andthat’sfine,butifyouwantedsomethingthat’salittlebitmoremellow,ahotchocolatelikethatisamazingbutwhenit’smadewithonlyrealfood,itdoessomethingdifferentforhowyoufeelbecauseyou’renotgettingthatsugarhigh.

Here’swhyI’mtalkingabouthotchocolate.Irecentlydidsomethingthatwasamiracleinthekitchen.ItookBulletproofHotChocolatemix,andImixedinroomtemperaturegrass-fedbutter,andbrainoctaneoil,andIblendedit.Whatcameoutwasthisridiculousfrosting-likesubstancethatcompletelytransformedprettymuchanythingI’veputiton.Itwasn’tverygoodonsaladbutifyouwantedsomedessert-likefrosting,thisstuffcompletelyblewmeoutofthewater.IshouldcallBulletproofHotChocolateBulletproofChocolateFrostingMixbecauseohmyGod,it’sgood.

Anyway,ifyouhaven’ttriediteventhoughIhaveit,youcanmakeamochaoutofthisstuffbutit’soneofthosethingswhereIreallycarefullycraftedthisstuffandInevertalkedaboutit.ThereareahugenumberoffriendsofmineinUtahwhodon’tdrinkcoffee.Oneofthemcametomeandsaid,“Dave,youshouldjustcallBulletproofHotChocolateMormonfuel.”Thereyougo.IfyouareinUtahandyoudon’tknowIhavethisstuff,youneedtotryit.Putsomebrainoctane,putsomebutterinthere,blenditupinthemorning,andyou’llbebulletproofwithoutanycoffee.Haveanawesomeday.Thanksforlistening.Serious,BulletproofHotChocolateisamazing.

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