state 6ra1y sf south australia j. d. …z • y i 4 state government library of south australia...

6:Z •y I 4 STATE L I B R A R YGovernment

of South Australia

STATE 6 R A 1 Y SF SOUTH AUSTRALIA

J. D. SOMERVILLE (SRAL H I S T • RYCOLLECT' SN

O H 1/36

Full transcript of an interview with

RHODA ISABELLA, PLUSH

on 12 June 1986

by Beth M. Robertson

Recording available on cassette

Access for research: Unrestricted

Right to photocopy: Copies may be made for research and study

Right to quote or publish: Publication only with written permission from theState Library

OH 1/36 R H O D A ISABELLA PLUSH

NOTES TO THE TRANSCRIPTThis transcript was created by the J. D. Somerville Oral History Collection of the State Library.It conforms to the Somerville Collection's policies for transcription which are explained below.

Readers of this oral history transcript should bear in mind that it is a record of the spoken wordand reflects the informal, conversational style that is inherent in such historical sources. TheState Library is not responsible for the factual accuracy of the interview, nor for the viewsexpressed therein. As with any historical source, these are for the reader to judge.

It is the Somerville Collection's policy to produce a transcript that is, so far as possible, averbatim transcript that preserves the interviewee's manner of speaking and the conversationalstyle of the interview. Certain conventions of transcription have been applied (ie. the omissionof meaningless noises, false starts and a percentage of the interviewee's crutch words). Wherethe interviewee has had the opportunity to read the transcript, their suggested alterations havebeen incorporated in the text (see below). On the whole, the document can be regarded as a rawtranscript.

Abbreviations: The interviewee's alterations may be identified by their initials in insertions inthe transcript.

Punctuation: Square bracket [ 1 indicate material in the transcript that does not occur on theoriginal tape recording. This is usually words, phrases or sentences which the interviewee hasinserted to clarify or correct meaning. These are not necessarily differentiated from insertionsthe interviewer or by Somerville Collection staff which are either minor (a linking word forclarification) or clearly editorial. Relatively insignificant word substitutions or additions by theinterviewee as well as minor deletions of words or phrases are often not indicated in the interestof readability. Extensive additional material supplied by the interviewee is usually placed infootnotes at the bottom of the relevant page rather than in square brackets within the text.

A series of dots, .... i n d i c a t e s an untranscribable word or phrase.

Sentences that were left unfinished in the normal manner of conversation are shown ending inthree dashes, - -

Spelling: Wherever possible the spelling of proper names and unusual terms has been verified.A parenthesised question mark (?) indicates a word that it has not been possible to verify todate.

Typeface: The interviewer's questions are shown in bold print.

Discrepancies between transcript and tape: This proofread transcript represents theauthoritative version of this oral history interview. Researchers using the original tape recordingof this interview are cautioned to check this transcript for corrections, additions or deletionswhich have been made by the interviewer or the interviewee but which will not occur on thetape. See the Punctuation section above.) Minor discrepancies of grammar and sentencestructure made in the interest of readability can be ignored but significant changes such asdeletion of information or correction of fact should be, respectively, duplicated or acknowledgedwhen the tape recorded version of this interview is used for broadcast or any other form of audiopublication.

2

ATB/16/129-615i M r s Rhoda PLUSH i i'S.A. SPEAKS' 8 6 1 5

TABLE O F CONTENTS

Preface

Notes to the Transcript

Family and ChildhoodFather's carrying businessMemories of siblings' birthsBirkenhead homeHome helpHolidays

Page

i i i

iv

1

LeFevre School 1 5

Domestic ServiceAsking to leave schoolNursemaidDishonest American guestHousekeeper

Marriage - 'a case of have-to 'Ignorance about sexFirst babyUnhappiness and miscarriagePort Augusta Shanty Town and third baby's death

SeparationCook at OodnadattaMeeting second husbandStation l i fe in the Far NorthDeath of baby daughterDivorce from f i rs t husband and later second marriage

Collateral Material in File 8615 includes:Photograph P8615A

Cover Illustration Rhoda Harry aged eleven in 1894.

17

24

37

ATB/16/129-615i M r s Rhoda PLUSH i i i'S.A. SPEAKS' 8 6 1 5

PREFACE

Rhoda Plush ( former ly E ly, nee Harry) was born i n 1893, the th i rd o f s ixsurviving children o f a Birkenhead carr ier ; ' the Co.' o f W.A. Har t & Co. Rhoda'swas a happy childhood. A t twelve and a half she asked to leave the LeFevre Schoolto go as a l ive- in nursemaid t o the youngest chi ld o f a local fac tory manager.When her employers returned to Amer ica a few years later Rhoda went to Owenas a housekeeper. Soon af ter her return, and in ignorance, Rhoda became pregnantand had t o mar ry i n 1910, aged seventeen. H e r f i r s t son was born two monthslater. During the next ten years a second son was born, she suffered a miscarriageand the death o f her third son when the fami ly was l iving in Shanty Town at PortAugusta where her husband was working on the East-West Line. However for her i twas a loveless marriage and in 1920 she decided to have a break and went to theOodnadatta Hotel as a cook. There she met Bi l l Plush, a stockman, who followedher back to Adelaide and convinced her, w i t h her children, t o return wi th him tothe Nor th . Dur ing t he 1920s they l ived on various Kidman properties i n SouthAustralia and New South Wales and Rhoda divorced her f i r s t husband. Mrs Plushstayed in the Outback for almost f i f t y years. She and Bi l l f inal ly married in 1968.

Mrs Plush was 93 years of age at the t ime of the interview.

Record levels are reasonable and there is l i t t le extraneous noise.

The in terv iew session resulted i n t w o hours and f i f t e e n minutes o f taperecorded infor mation.

'S.A. Speaks: A n Oral History o f L i f e in South Austral ia before 1930' was aJubilee 150 project conducted under the auspices o f the History Trust o f SouthAustralia fo r two years and two months ending December 1986. The Intervieweesare broadly representative o f the population o f South Austra l ia as i t was in thef i rst three decades of the twentieth century. Selection of Interviewees was guidedby a Sex and Occupation Sample calculated f r om t h e 1921 Census and In te r -viewees were suggested, i n the main, by people who responded t o 'S.A. Speaks'publicity. Each in terv iew was preceded b y an unrecorded prel iminary interv iewduring which detai ls about the Interviewee's fami l y h is tory and l i f e story weresought to help develop a framework for the interview.

As stated i n t h e Conditions o f Use f o r Tape Recordings and Transcriptsadopted f o r the 'S.A. Speaks' project: 'The copyright in the item(s) [viz, the tapesand transcripts o f Interview 8615 and a l l the r ights which normally accompanycopyright including the r ight to grant or withhold access to them, conditionally orunconditionally, t o publish, reproduce o r broadcast them, belongs i n t h e f i r s tinstance t o t he His tory Trus t o f South Aust ra l ia f o r t he purposes o f t he 'S.A.Speaks' project and a f ter the cessation o f tha t project to the Libraries Board o fSouth Austral ia for the purposes of the Mort lock Library of South Australiana.'

ATB/16/129-615i M r s Rhoda PLUSH i v'S.A. SPEAKS' 8 6 1 5

NOTES T O T H E TRANSCRIPT

Readers of this oral history transcript should bear in mind that i t is a recordof the spoken word. I t was the pol icy o f the Transcriptionist, Chris Grad°l f , andthe Interviewer, as edi tor, t o produce a transcr ipt tha t is, so f a r as possible, averbatim transcr ipt tha t preserves the Interviewee's manner o f speaking and theinformal, conversational s ty le o f t h e in terv iew. Cer ta in conventions o f t rans-cription have been applied (i.e. the omission of meaningless noises, redundant falsestarts and a percentage of the Interviewee's crutch words). Also, each Intervieweewas given the opportunity t o read the t ranscr ipt o f the i r in terv iew af ter i t hadbeen proofread by the Interviewer. The Interviewee's suggested alterations havebeen incorporated in the tex t (see below). On the whole, however, the documentcan be regarded as a raw transcript.

Researchers using the original tape recording of this interview are cautionedto check th is transcript f o r corrections, additions o r deletions which have beenmade by the Interviewer or the Interviewee but which wi l l not occur on the tapes.Minor discrepancies o f gram mar and sentence structure made in the interest o freadability can be ignored but significant changes such as deletions of informationor correction of fact should be, respectively, duplicated or acknowledged when thetape recorded version o f th is in terv iew i s used f o r broadcast o r publication oncassettes.

Abbreviations

The Interviewee, Rhoda Plush, i s re fe r red t o b y t h e in i t i a l s R P i n a l leditorial insertions in the transcript.

Punctuation

Square brackets [ ] indicate material in the transcript that does not occur onthe original tape recording.

The Interviewee's i n i t i a l s a f t e r a wo rd , phrase o r sentence i n squarebrackets, i .e. [word o r phrase RP] indicates that the Interviewee made this par-ticular insert ion o r correct ion. A l l unini t ia l led parentheses were made b y t h eInterviewer.

An series of dots, i n d i c a t e s an untranscribable word or phrase.

Sentences tha t were l e f t unfinished i n the normal manner o f conversationare shown ending in three dashes, - - -.

Spelling

Wherever possible the spelling o f proper names and unusual te r ms has beenverified. Where uncertainty remains the word has been marked with a cross in theright hand margin of the Interview Log and Data Sheet which can be consulted inthe Interview File.

Typeface

The Interviewer's questions are shown in bold print.

ATB/15/129-615'S.A. SPEAKS' 8 6 1 5

Mrs Rhoda PLUSH 1 .

'S.A. Speaks: A n Oral History of Life in South Australia Before 1930'Beth Robertson interviewing Mrs Rhoda Plush

on 12 June 1986TAPE 1 SIDE A

Could you start by telling me your name from when you were a girl?

Rhoda Isabella Harry.

What was the date of your birth?

January the f i f teenth, 1893.

Where were you born?

Well, i n those days i t was Sandwell, bu t now I th ink they've changed i t t oPeterhead. I t was Robert Street, Sandwell.

1 haven't heard that name.

Yes, well it 's changed now to Peterhead. I don't think they use Sandwell.

Is that where you grew up?

I grew up there unt i l I was five.

Yes, and where did you move?

We moved to Exmouth Road, Exeter.

What was your father's christian name?

Henry John.

What did he do for a living?

He was a carr ier. They were [W.A.] Har t & Company. Mr Hart was the Hartand he was the Co. - my father was the company, l ike Co.

I see. Yes, there's a Hart Street in this area isn't there?

Yes, that's farther down towards West Lakes.

I wonder i f that was named for the family.

No, I don't th ink so. That was named a f te r the Har t that had Glanvil le Hall.There's no connection whatsoever.

What can you tell me about your father's day-to-day work? Did he have a team ofhorses himself?

Yes, drays. Yes, he had drays. They used t o carry fo r the sugar ref inery a tGlanville. That 's where he used t o do the carrying, most ly, f rom the sugarrefinery - cane sugar - and he'd bring cane sugar home. Well, we kiddies would

ATB/15/129-615 M r s Rhoda PLUSH 2 .'S.A. SPEAKS' 8 6 1 5

- - -. Even when I see i t on TV i t takes memories back to the cane sugar heused t o bring home. We'd squeeze i t and take the sap. I t was real ly lovely.Takes i t al l back.

Did he run more than one dray himself?

No. Well , they had drivers. My f i r s t husband worked fo r Dad, and he was adriver, and then they had about, oh, half a dozen others.

Your father did driving himself?

Oh yes, he did, not very much though. He mostly looked af ter the drays andsaw that they were kept in good condition or anything l ike that.

Did he keep horses on your property - behind the house where you were living?

Yes. Yes , horses and drays. And we each had t o do our tu rn in the o ff ice .None of us liked doing that, but we had to do i t - we had to go into the off ice.Because we didn't l ike Mr Hart 's wi fe. She wasn't a nice person and she usedto, you know, pu t us o f f . We'd sneak away whenever we could, ou t o f t heoffice. We used to have to answer the phone and do things like that.

Where was the office?

Yes.

On Semaphore Road. Now, they're building houses on there now. Yo u knowwhere the Cumberland Hotel is?

Opposite there. Well, when I was f ive, w e l e f t Sandwell and l ived in a l i t t l ewooden house on that same block. We lived there, I know, for a few years, andthen my sister you met, she was born in that house and I was six then. Whenshe was born the doctor told Mother that she wouldn't l ive - she was that f ra i lthat she would not l ive - and the best thing she could do was to get her bap-tised straight away. So I rushed down to the - the Salvation Army was downthe other end of Exmouth Road. I was only six. I rushed down to the SalvationArmy Barracks and brought t he Captain back and he christened m y s isterthere and then, and she's eighty six. Can you believe i t? Yes, wel l that's oneinstance.

Did you know at that age that your mother was going to have a baby? Was thatsort of thing talked about?

No. No, I didn' t know. Babies - I could t e l l you a l o t about babies. (laughs)That place was commandeered by Todd. He wanted to build a blacksmith shopthere, on that piece o f land, so that house was demolished and we moved intothe house just next door - a stone place - they're s t i l l there. We were there


for quite a long t ime. Anyhow, that 's where we moved into, tha t house nextdoor. The gate used to open into the yard - Dad had the carr ier business.

You were mentioning helping your father in the office.

Yes.

From what age would you do that?

Oh, I suppose only about - I was st i l l going to school.

So many ten, eleven years old.

Yes, about that. I le f t school when I was twelve and a half.

We'll talk about that time in a few minutes. What sort of a man was your father?

A lovely man, and i f you saw his photo you'd recognise tha t too. Pm sorry Ihaven't got i t . They were both lovely parents. They were both wrapped up intheir chi ldren - their children couldn't do any wrong. (laughs) But Pm afraidwe did do a l i t t le bi t wrong at times.

That often happens. You've got a photograph of your mother there. What was hername?

Gertrude Smith.

Where did she grow up?

In Ballarat.

What did she tell you about her childhood?

Not very much. Neither of them did actually. Mother had no relatives that weknow of . We've never heard anything of any of her relatives. She'd never ta lkabout her relatives. She was adopted out, I know that, t o people of the nameof Sparks, and she took the i r name. She was Gertrude Sparks, bu t her realname was Smith.

Did she tell you what life was like as an adopted child?

Not very happy. She didn't get enough to eat. She used to go down to the hens- where t he fowls were - and steal the eggs and eat them raw. Bu t that 'sabout a l l I know o f Mother's background. I don't know anything else. Knownothing about her parents or grandparents or anything.

Father, he had a sister, Rhoda - that 's who Pm named a f te r. But a l l hisother relatives were cousins. There was Auntie Isabella, that's who I'm namedafter t o o - Isabella - and Aunt ie A l ice . That's about a l l . Oh, Aunt ie Sylvia- - -. No, Aunt ie Rhoda, but she had a daughter Sylvia. Pm gett ing mixed up a


bit. (laughs) I was about - I was st i l l going to school - and Auntie Rhoda cameover. We were st i l l l iving in the same house, and Auntie Rhoda came over andbrought Sylvia, and Sylvia was - she had a marvellous singing voice, beautifulvoice. Oh, no, I must've been about thirteen then. Because I know I was work-ing down on the Esplanade wi th the American people, but I haven't come tothat yet.

No. One thing I was wondering was, with your mother growing up in Ballarat andyour father here, how did they meet?

I don't know, dear. That I cannot t e l l you - I real ly don't know. But Dad'sfather, he deserted ship at Port Adelaide, and that's where Dad was born - inSt Vincent Street, Po r t Adelaide. Tha t I do know, bu t whether he had anyother brothers, I don't know, but he had plenty of cousins. He only had the onesister, I think, and that was Auntie Rhoda. That's as far as I know.

Did she live near you?

No, she l ived in Melbourne. She was a ta l l , stately person, you know. Well, Ialways say tha t Rhoda, the name, suited her, but not me. I t 's a name fo r abig, stately person. I always said that and always wi l l .

Have you ever been known by a nickname or another name?

Yes, Biddy. That's Dad's name for me - Biddy.

Did that stick?

Yes. Yes , I 've s t i l l go t fr iends who ca l l me Biddy. M y sister- in-law alwayscalls me Biddy.

How many brothers and sisters did you have?

There was Snowy and Wal ly and Fred, and one tha t died. One tha t died i nVictoria, so Mum and Dad must have been married in Victor ia, I don't knowwhen though. Because Johnny's the one tha t died i n Victor ia. She had ninechildren altogether. Two died here in Exmouth Road that I know of, one diedin Victor ia - Johnny - and she reared the other six. Three daughters and threesons - Fred, Wally and Bi l l , and my younger sister L i l l and my other sister andmyself. A l l the boys are gone now though. My younger brother died last year.

You've mentioned the birth of your younger sister. Was that the only birth in thehousehold that you remember?

Oh no. (laughs) There was another b i r th in th is house, and her name - that'sanother one that died - her name was Edith Talboys. Talboys is a family nameon Father's side. Well anyhow, Mrs Nett leton - that was the midwife, she was


looking a f t e r Mother - she said, 'You chi ldren have got t o go down t o thebeach. Your mother's not too well ' . Wel l I knew that Mum was going to havethe baby. Anyhow we were given a shil l ing each and we - - -. Sammy Lunnused t o have the icecream c a r t down a t t he Semaphore. Do you rememberSammy Lunn?

Only by name.

Well, I spent my shilling on icecream and I came home for more. Mrs Net t le-ton said t o me when I knocked a t the door, t he f ron t door - I wouldn't goround the back, I had to knock at the f ront door. She said, 'What are you doinghome?' I said, ' I came home f o r some more money. I spent mine'. 'Oh.' Shesaid, 'Don' t make a noise, your l i t t l e sister's just died'. 'Oh,' I said, ' that 's agood job ' . I said, 'Mum's g o t enough babies'. (laughs) 'Oh, ' she said, 'younaughty g i r l , ta lk ing l ike that ' . 'Well , ' I said, 'so she has got enough babies'.Anyhow, I was given some more money and away I went.

How old would you have been at that time?

Oh, I was going t o school. I must've been about ten I think, nine or ten, justgoing to school. Anyhow, that baby died, and another one died [when we wereliving] in the house next door.

Do you remember i f your mother was worried about having more mouths to feedas the babies came along?

No, didn't seem. She took i t in her stride. She didn't seem to worry at al l . Wechildren would have to take turns sleeping wi th Mother sometimes, you know,and sometimes we'd feel something bi t ing. You know, those days - a f lea i nthe bed, o r something. And a han&d go down - 'Can't you keep st i l l? ' - youwouldn't be able to scratch. My sister, i t happened to her too, so it 's no l ie.

Was that to keep her company when she was pregnant?

Yes. My sister had to have her turn sleeping with her too - only the two girls.

Did you have much trouble with bed bugs or fleas?

No, not very much. No, not very much at al l . I t was very clean.

Was there anything in particular your mother would do to get rid of them?

Not that I know of. There weren't many anyhow - there were a few. Or some-times i t might 've been jus t imagination, you know. Runs away w i t h you a ttimes, doesn't i t?

What was your mother's health like?


Well, she died when she was f i f t y two . She went down hi l l a f te r my brotherwas kil led in the First World War - Snowy. He was a captain in the war. I wishI had h is photo - he was a lovely looking fe l low. H e was ki l led. M y otherbrother, Wal, was in the First World War too. Snow was just going to have hisleave - going on leave. He got ou t o f the t ra in and he met this other chapfrom Wal's platoon, and he said t o B i l l [Snowy's real name] - - -. This chapsaid t o B i l l , 'Oh, your brother's been ki l led', and B i l l said, 'I 'm not going onleave. I 'm going back to get these Japs [Germans].' I won't say what he said.He went back and he was ki l led, and my brother wasn't ki l led at al l . He wasgassed, badly gassed. He died in '50 I th ink - no, '63 I th ink he died, cancer,through the gas.

From what you've been saying, you didn't know any of your grandparents.

No we d id not . We know t h a t Dad's grandparents - h is fa ther was born i nPenzance, we know tha t . That's where we get our colouring f rom, see, andthat's a l l we know, t ha t his fa ther was on a ship, l i ke they did in the oldendays, and he deserted a t Por t Adelaide. That's a l l we do know real ly. Don'tknow any depth o f anything. A n d I suppose, being k ids, w e weren' t ve ryinterested. Had we been more interested we could have found out more.

But I think that's normal for children.

Normal for children, yes.

What was the house like at Exmouth Road - the main one that you grew up in?

Very nice. There were two f ron t rooms - there was one room there and oneroom there - then a bedroom and another bedroom there, and a nice kitchenand a pantry. Really nice place.

You were saying it was a stone house?

Yes. They're st i l l there. They're st i l l there - both of them. We lived in both ofthem. A f t e r a whi le we shif ted t o the other side. But I could go on talk ingabout incidents, but I don't want to - - -.

Oh no, I think it's all very interesting.

Well, we were l iving in this f i rs t house. Dad came home one day and he said,'Where's Bi l l? ' I t was lunch t ime - luncheon t ime, and we were a t luncheon.We said, 'Why?' He started to take his belt o f f . He had a belt about that wide[three inches] w i th a b ig buckle on i t , you know, t h a t they used to wear inthose days - then men did. 'What's wrong, Dad?"Wel l , he's been at Freeman'sf ru i t car t and stealing f ru i t . ' Snow was down a t the end o f the table and he


jumped up and got under the table and we al l started to howl - 'No, don't h i thim Dad, don't h i t him Dad'. He put the belt on and he said, 'What's the good?'(laughs)

Did your father sometimes use the belt with the children?

No, never. No, he was a very good father.

How would your parents discipline you?

They were good. Yes, they were both good. No trouble there at all.

I wanted to ask you a bit more about the home that you grew up in. Did yourparents own the houses that you lived in?

No. No, they were rented.

Did you have more than just your mother, your father and the children in thefamily living in the home? Did you have other people living in the home with you?

There was an old man, name of Mr Barney. He boarded there for a while, butnot for very long.

Do you know what he did for a living or was he retired?

Oh, I don't know what happened to him, dear. I couldn't say what happened tohim a t a l l real ly. We were just kids and didn't take much notice of him. But Iknow he wasn't there very long, because I don't think Mum could manage withthe children and that.

Another incident happened wi th my younger sister. Mother used to have alot o f glassware - used to get i t fo r coupons. They had coupons in those days.She had a lovely lo t of glassware. She had i t up on a cupboard about that high,and she was so proud o f tha t glassware. My sister came in one day - I'm sixyears older than her - and she stood up l ike that and pulled the whole lot overand broke most of i t . Poor old Mum, n e v e r forget her. She just stood there,and she said, k i l l you, I ' l l k i l l you,' and I grabbed my sister up in my armsand rushed out the f ront door and sat over the other side of the road with heron the footpath. I said, 'No you won't k i l l her'. I said, 'Unt i l you te l l me thatyou won't hurt her I won't bring her back'. Anyhow I sat over there. There wasa post - one of those posts wi th the red top on i t , you know. I sat by that postand I hung round the post with my sister 'Din in my arms - Al ice her name is -in m y arms. I sa t there. 'Bring her here.' No , ' I said, 'Pm not bringing herhome, Mum, I'm not bringing her home'. And there's an Irish couple lived nextdoor, the name o f Ryan. They were a lovely couple and they had a daughterNora, and she came out the f ront . She said, 'What's the matter Rhoda?' I said,'Pm n o t tak ing A l i c e home u n t i l Mum says t h a t she won' t h i t her ' . 'What

ATB/15/129-615 M r s Rhoda PLUSH S .'S.A. SPEAKS' 8 6 1 5

happened?' and I told her. She went in to see Mum. She talked Mum over andMum come and said, 'I won't h i t her. Bring her home'. (laughs) So I did, nothinghappened. But 'Din can te l l you about that too.

How old would you have been then?

Oh, I was st i l l going to school. I suppose about nine or ten - might've been ten.She was only a l i t t le tacker.

Did your mother ever have anyone locally to help her in the home?

Oh yes. Yes, she had a g i r l Ruby Wilkinson. (laughs) She was a l i t t l e b i t dimwitted - not al l there, you know - and there was other people living across theroad by the name o f Hurren, and the i r daughter's name was Gladys - GladysHurren - and Ruby did not l ike Gladys. She thought she was stuck up and shedidn't want t o ta lk to anybody. So poor Ruby was sit t ing out on the verandahone day and she was kni t t ing - crocheting or something - and Gladys put herhead over. She said, 'What are you doing Ruby?' I won't te l l you what she said,wil l I?

What did she say?

'Pig's arse and cabbage leaves.' (laughs) Oh, she's funny.

How long did she stay with the family?

Oh, she was with the family quite a long t ime.

Did she live in your home?

Yes, she was living there. Poor Ruby.

Did she have to help with you children?

[queries question]

Did she help look after you children?

Oh yes, she used t o wash us and dress us - you know, see that we were keptclean and that sort of thing. Oh yes, Mum had Ruby for quite a long t ime.

Do you remember others girls who helped in the house?

No, only Ruby. We had Ruby, that's all.

You've mentioned that the house you mainly grew up in after you were about fiveyears old, had a yard next door for the drays and horses. Did you have much of abackyard yourself?

Yes, we had quite a nice backyard. Not as big as we've got here - about halfthe size - but i t was quite big enough.


Did your parents do any gardening or growing in the yard?

No, nothing a t a l l l ike that . They didn't have the - - -. There wasn't enough,really, to grow in - the land wasn't suitable for i t then.

Did you have any fruit trees?

[queries question]

Did you have any fruit trees?

No, no trees at al l . No, nothing l ike that at all. Only bamboos. Up against thefence were bamboos - that's all we had.

Would you use them as children when you were playing?

Oh.

Oh yes. Always up to mischief. There was people l ived next door of the nameof Davey and he had a monkey.

Yes, had a monkey. He had i t on a chain and i t used to go in circles, l ike this,round, and then it 'd get up on the fence and fr ighten the l i fe out of our kiddie.I t got loose one day and got in our place and got on Mum's shoulder. Poor oldMum, she nearly had a f i t - this monkey on her shoulder. (laughs)

Did you children have pets yourself?

Yes. Yes, my brother had a - - -. What did he have? A cat . And he loved thatcat. He'd stroke i t and, you know, love i t - that's Wal, he's very fond o f cats.We didn't have any. I didn't have any pets then. Only Wal did, that's r ight. Andmy other brother, Fred, he was fond of pigeons - he loved pigeons.

Did you have them?

Yes, pigeons. That's when we went into the other house, where Daveys le f t -we went in to the other house, because the rooms were bigger. There weren'tas many rooms but they were bigger. So we shifted there.

Was that two or three houses you lived in?

Three.

Three altogether?

Altogether. They're st i l l there - the two are st i l l there, the two houses.

In Exmouth Street.

Yes. Where Dad had - where the f i rm had thei r company - that 's al l houses,and they're building al l houses there now. Even where Mr Todd had his black-

ATB/15/129-615 M r s Rhoda PLUSH 1 0 .'S.A. SPEAKS' 8 6 1 5

smith shop, that 's a l l houses now - r ight opposite the Cumberland Hotel. Soyou wouldn't miss seeing i t i f you went that way. That's where we lived.

What sort of chores were you expected to do when you were a little girl?

Oh, no t very much real ly. (laughs) I was a terr ib le person fo r reading. Mumwould te l l me to go and make the beds and she'd sing out, 'You're a long t imemaking those beds'. L i t t l e d id she know I had a book - was reading a book.She'd come up and I'd put the book under the mattress. I was a terrible reader- I s t i l l am, reading.

Did you have many books in the house?

Oh yes. Yes, Mum encouraged us to read, and I used t o win many a spellingbee and reading a t school. The teacher used t o g ive sixpence f o r any pupilthat come top, and many a sixpence I go t - f o r sewing, and reading, andwriting. But arithmetic, no - and geography, I wasn't too good on that either.

You made up for that later on when you travelled about.

Yes I did.

What sort of activities would the family do together? Did you have outings withthe family when you were a little girl?

Oh yes, we used to go to Sunday School picnics and al l that sort of thing, youknow, but the day seemed to be that long coming round to the picnic. I'd sayto Mum, 'Mum, when's Sunday coming round?' B u t now t h e days go t h a tquickly, Sunday's on you before you know where you are. Oh yes, we had quitea lovely childhood really.

What church did your family attend?

They didn't attend any, but I went to the Salvation Army a lot and the Churchof England in the Port.

How did you come to go to the Salvation Army?

Well, I always had a l iking for the Salvation Army. Beatrice Anderson - that'sanother g i r l that used to go wi th me - and we used to go. I l iked to go. I'd goto Sunday School, I'd go to church - I used to love the Army. Caporn - CaptainCaporn and Mrs Caporn - they were a lovely couple. They encouraged you togo and we used to love going to church. I'd never miss.

Nov, I never ge t there. No, I had enough o f that . I had - the Outback -they used t o come every month , t h e Catho l ic Church, t h e PresbyterianChurch, d i f fe ren t months, and t h e Church o f England. You'd have t o — .They'd make i t just the same as i f i t was in church w i th the table and the


Cross. A n d t h e Cathol ic would have the - - -. They came one day. FatherWalsh came one day to hold chuch and he opened the bag - no wafers. 'Oh,' hesaid, 'What am I going to do? I've got no wafers'. He said, 'Have you got anyf lat irons?', I said, 'Yes'. '0K, ' he said, 'Well you get a l i t t l e b i t o f plain f lourand make a l i t t l e b i t of paste,' he said, 'We'll make some wafers'. So I did thatand then just put a l i t t l e b i t on one iron and put the other iron on i t and madethe wafers. H i s mother had cleaned h is bag ou t and forgot ten t o pu t t hewafers in. So all those things happened, but that's later on.

We'll be talking more about that t ime later on. How was Christmas celebratedwhen you were a girl?

Oh, we had a Christmas tree in that house - in the f i rs t house. That's the onlyChristmas t ree I remember, because i t was over by the window. We had agood l i fe, but there isn't very much that Dad could do because wages weren'tlike they are now. My f i rs t husband came home wi th his wages one day - twopound ten - and he was going to give i t t o me and he pulled i t back. And I putmy hand out and he pulled i t back again. I put my hand out, he put i t in myhand and I threw i t in the f i re, the whole two - golden sovereigns those times.

Were they?

Yes, they were sovereigns those t imes. There were two sovereign, a ten - ahalf a sovereign - and I can remember Mum t o this day, scraping — -. See,the f ires then were ovens, not l ike they are now, and the f i re was on the topand the oven underneath. I can see her scraping that money out now. (laughs)

END OF TAPE 1 SIDE A: TA P E 1 SIDE B

One of the things that I wanted to ask you about, was your parents' attitudes tovarious things. What was your parents' attitudes to alcohol?

Oh, Mother never had a drink in her l i fe . Father l iked his glass o f beer, butnot overdoing i t . They were quite good in that respect, they never overdid i t .But Mum, she didn't ever drink.

Would there be alcohol in the house?

No. They used to go to the Cumberland Hotel across the road i f they wantedit, but there was never any in the house.

Did your father smoke?

Yes, a pipe.

What was your parents' attitude to, say, card playing?


Oh, didn't bother them. They didn't play cards at al l . No, Mum's l i fe was takenup with her children more than anything, and Dad didn't play cards.

Did your parents have any outings of their own which they'd do regularly?

Dad had a horse and buggy and what they cal l - - -. Now, what did they cal lit? I t had high wheels on i t , and he used to take us children to Dry Creek, outthere. People t h a t used t o have t h e Cumberland Hote l , t hey were greatfriends of Dad's, then they took the hotel up at Dry Creek, and then Dad usedto take us out - only one at a t ime - when he'd go out that way. Oh, what wastheir name? I fo rget t he i r name now. Anyhow, they had the hotel . They'dknow the name there anyhow.

Would that trip take all day?

We'd be there the day, yes. The lovely horse - Dad'd dr ive the horse. And Iused t o dr ive a buggy myself a f ter I got married, but i t bolted wi th me oneday.

Did it?

Yes. I was twenty one and i t bolted with me.

Where did that happen?

In Har t Street. We l ived at Glanvil le Blocks - what they cal l Semaphore Parknow - and we had th is pony and the l i t t l e vehicle w i th high wheels on i t . Iharnessed i t up and Ron was a baby in a basket. I must have had the collar tootight. When I got to a certain place the horse wouldn't go any fur ther. So agentleman came along and he had a look a t t h e col lar. H e said, 'Yes, i t ' spinching' - I'd had i t too t ight , and he settled i t , and away we went. I t was allsandhills then, not houses. And when we got to a certain part i t bolted again. Ididn't know a t the t ime, bu t he bolted again. I run him i n to a sandhill andstopped him. And when he stopped heaving, I thought, 'Oh, well, keep going'. Iwas coming down to Mum. See, we l ived up there and I was coming down tothe yard where Dad had his carriage business. Took the horse out f rom thesandhill and i t bolted again, and just as I got to Hart Street, where there's allfences - a fence th is side - I managed t o pul l the horse up. Lucki ly one o fDad's drivers was going past - going back to the yard - and he saw me.

He tethered his horse to the fence and jumped out and come over, and hesaid, 'What's happened?' I said, 'The thing's bolting all the time'. I said, 'I can'tmanage i t ' . 'Oh,' he said, R ight 'o ' and he tethered his horse more securely,took the reins and got up and he managed to get the horse down to the yard.Anyhow, the chap we bought the horse o f f , we complained about i t . 'But,' he


said, ' t ha t horse had never been i n t h e shafts before' . H e said, 'That 's achildren's pony'. (laughs) Wonder I wasn't k i l led, isn ' t i t ? Anyhow he took i tback and gave us another one. But, gee, I was lucky.

Did you have your little boy with you at the time?

Yes, he was in the - one o f those baskets, you know, you used to buy them.Put one top on top o f the other. Well he was in hal f o f tha t basket, but wecould manage al l right.

Did the family ever get away from the house together for holidays, more than aday at a time?

Well, Mother used to take us - —. They wouldn't go together. Mother used totake us to Mount Lof ty - the children - once a year. She'd leave Dad home andone of us girls would be there. She wouldn't take al l - only one of us at a t ime.And the t ime I went w i th Mother t o Mount Lo f t y, Fewings used to have theboading house - people of the name of Fewings. Some names are coming back.That's a long t ime ago.

Certainly is.

Mother said to me one day, she said, 'I have a feeling that things are not r ightat home'. She said, ' I t h ink we'd be t te r go home'. So we packed and camehome. Things weren't al l r ight, either. Father was in bed. He'd been mending adray in the yard and a piece o f steel had got in his eye, and he kept saying tomy sister 'Din, 'No, don't get the doctor. I t 's a l l r ight . I ' l l be a l l r ight. Don'tget the doctor. ' So she didn't get the doctor, and he was in bed when we camehome. Of course as soon as Mother saw him, she said, 'The doctor'. So she gotthe doctor. He said, 'Oh, he's got something in his eye'. He lost his eye af terthat. I t 's jus t as we l l w e came home. I t was inst inct , wasn't i t ? She knewsomething was wrong. He lost this eye [the le f t one].

Was he off work for a time?

[queries question]

Was he out of work for a time?

Oh, not for long. Wouldn't give in.

You were mentioning before that wages weren't what they are today.

Oh no they weren't.

Do you think it was a struggle for your father to support the family?

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Oh wel l , seemed to anyhow. He seemed to, because Mother didn't ever work.Things weren't then the price they are now dear. See, you could buy a loaf ofbread, you could buy a whole lot of skim mi lk for about a penny. A man, nameof K i te , he used to go round the streets in a horse and car t and singing outwhat he had and how much i t was. You didn't have to go to the butcher's shop,the butcher cart would come to you. Because I can remember Mum going outand the man wi th his striped apron, and Mum going out and gett ing the meatand that f rom the butcher car t out in f ront o f the house, not l ike i t is nowa-days - di fferent altogether.

Did you have the greengrocer coming around?

Yes. I remember the greengrocer - i t 's McCallum. He came round the backone day and I was cleaning the back windows and I had my sk i r t t ied downwith a piece o f s t r ing. 'Mm m, what 've you go t your sk i r t t i ed down for? ''Well,' I said, 'so i t won't blow up'. 'H m,' he said, 'you are modest'. (laughs) A l lthese l i t t l e things come back to you in t ime don't they? Yes, McCallum. MrMcCallum had a shop in the Port Adelaide - yes, Mum's grocer.

What about rabbit-ohls?

[queries question]

Did you have chaps coming round selling rabbits?

Oh yes. Oh yes, in the cart . Get them f o r about a penny, tuppence, each. Butlook a t them now. N o wonder t h e wages a re high. I can remember Mumgetting a whole sheep fo r about three and six. Three and six you could buy awhole sheep f o r, over a t the Por t Adelaide in the cooling chambers. I don'tthink i t ' s there now though, o f course. And she'd hang i t up - I can see i thanging up in the hal l now - and Dad would cut i t down and the woman nextdoor would have half and Mum would have the other half.

How would she keep meat like that?

I don't think i t 'd last long enough, anyhow, wi th the kids to feed. (laughs)

Would she salt any meat or treat it in some way?

No, nothing l ike that. No, we had the pantry - i t was very cool - and we usedto keep the meat i n there. 'Mum, what's f o r dinner today?' S tew ' - 'Yah' -nobody l iked stew. (laughs)

As a child, when you were going to school, where would you play mainly about theplace?

Home mostly, in the backyard mostly.


Would you go down to the beach much?

Not very of ten. No, no t very of ten. No t un t i l I go t older and wanted to gowith the boys, o f course. Then we used to go down the Semaphore Jet ty. Oh,the people down there then! Nothing now.

About what age were you when you'd start going down there?

Oh, about sixteen - f i f t een o r sixteen. I know I had a gir l f r iend, GladysFoster, and her and I were great pals, but we had to be home at nine o'clock.I f we weren't home a t nine o'clock, Glad's mother would be wait ing w i th astraw broom, and my mother'd be wait ing too, but she didn't have a broom.But one night the boys put their clocks back and i t was half past nine when wegot home. There was Glad's mother wa i t ing w i t h t h e broom a t t he gate.(laughs) They put the i r clocks back. I was wi th my husband, he was my boy-friend, and Lennie - what was his other name, I forget his name - that wasGlad's pal. His name was Lennie, I know.

Before we go on and talk about those years, let's talk a little bit more about whenyou were a little girl. You went to the LeFevre School.

Yes.

About what age were you when you started?

Six.

Do you remember starting school?

No I don't remember starting, but I know I used to have to be dragged there attimes. (laughs) I'd get hold o f the windowsill to the Freeman's f ru i t shop andthey'd have to drag me to school. But the t ra in used to run past the f ront o fthe school then . Ye s , r i g h t pas t t h e f r o n t o f t h e school - i t was ve rydangerous. And we kids used t o get two pins and put them on the train l ine,and when the train [had run over them] we thought we had a pair of scissors.They'd st ick the pins together - you know, the wheels - and I nearly got - - Ijust got o f f the t ra in l ine one day - I nearly had i t . Just got o f f in t ime andthe train whizzed past. I'd just finished putt ing them on and i t whizzed past.

Would they be sewing pins?

Yes, just the ordinary pins.

What subjects did you enjoy at school?

Sewing and reading and wr i t ing. I loved sewing, I loved reading and I lovedwriting.


Do you remember any particular teacher who had an influence on you?

Oh yes, there was Miss Smith - Biddy Smith, she was the head teacher. Therewas another teacher - she had sort o f Saint Vitus's Dance. I was t ry ing t othink o f her name the other night. I t just won't come back to me at al l . Butshe was a good teacher, a very good teacher. Biddy Smith was good too.

What was the discipline like in the classroom?

Very good. There was my cousin, Rhoda Harry. She was Number 2 and I wasNumber 1, because we were both Rhoda Harrys. But I was blamed for lots o fthings she d id t h a t I d idn' t do, bu t wha t was t he good? I had t o take theblame. She's passed on now.

You've mentioned having to be dragged to school sometimes. Did you have toattend school every day?

Yes.

Yes. But they weren't as s t r ic t then as what they are now. You could leaveschool - - -. School leaving age was thirteen, but I le f t when I was twelve anda half. But there was nothing - - -. They weren't l ike they are now. You've gotto go to f i f teen or sixteen, haven't you?

Yes, well in those days they weren't as fussy as they are now.

Would your mother ever keep you home from school to help her?

No. I f I did stay home i t was my own - - I ' d stay home myself. Mother wouldnever t ry to keep me home.

Did you children ever play hookie?

[misunderstands question] Play hockey? Yes.

Hookie?

No.

Staying away from school yourself?

I've stayed away from music lessons. (laughs)

Did you?

Wagged i t f rom music lessons. Professor Young, in Exmouth Road, was teach-ing me piano and then his father would come in and he'd say, 'That isn't r ight.You're not teaching that g i r l r ight ' . Wel l I got t i red o f that , so I said to myfriend, Minnie De Vof, I said, 'I'm not going to practice. I'm not going to musiclesson today. l e a v e my books in your place and we' l l go and play fo r the


hour, then Pll go home'. Well I did that three t imes. I didn't go t o music. Pdplant my books in Minnie's place and then we'd go and play fo r an hour. But Icame home one day - Mum said, 'Enjoy your music lesson?' and I said, 'Yes, i twas nice, Mum'. 'Oh,' she said, 'somebody wants t o see you'. I went i n theroom and who was there but Professor Young. (laughs) He said, 'You haven'tbeen. That's three,' he said, 'You've missed three lessons'. Mum didn't know, ofcourse. I got spanked for that, of course.

What was Minnie's surname?

De Vof. Her father was the steward on one of the boats.

As you mentioned, you lef t school when you were twelve and a half. Can youexplain to me the circumstances of that?

Well, I can do that quite simply. My father came home to luncheon and I washome f r o m school, and he said t o Mother, he said, ' M r McKay f r om t h ecement works wants a g i r l t o help his w i fe . She's sick.' He said to Mum, 'Doyou know of any young gir l who wants a position for a while?' Mum said, 'No, Idon't'. I said, 'I do, Dad. I ' l l take it ' . 'No,' he said, 'you go to school'. I said, 'No,I don't want to go to school. Let me take the job'. 'A l l r ight' - they're easy yousee. 'A l l r ight, ' he said, ' I ' l l see Mr McKay and I ' l l see what can be done aboutit '. And when he came home at f ive o'clock he said, 'Yes, you can have the jobi f you go down and see Mrs McKay'.

So I wen t down. They were on t h e Esplanade bu t they were only jus t

renting the place - a big house on the Esplanade. I t 's s t i l l there. And I wentdown to see her. There were no motorcars or anything. I had to walk down andwalk back and walk down, and she interviewed me. She said, 'Yes,' she said,'Pll give you f ive shillings a week'. My l ip dropped. She said, 'Oh, no,' she said,'now your lip's dropped,' she said, ' I ' l l make i t six'. (laughs) So she made i t six.Well, I got on well with them.

They had a l i t t l e boy Philip, and Marion, and another boy. Now, what wasthe other boy's name? I forget. I th ink i t was John - I'm not sure, but therewere three children. I was Philip's nurse and I had a grey bonnet with a f r i l l -you know, the f r izz ing round here - t ied under here, and a grey cape, and Iused t o have to take Phil ip to school and bring him home. Then I 'd help MrsMcKay in the kitchen. She used to do the cooking, you know - I'd just help herabout then. But the person that owned the house, she st i l l l ived in i t , but sheonly had t h e one room - Mrs Cox, an o ld lady, Mrs Cox. Anyhow I qu i teenjoyed i t there. They were really lovely to me.


She said to me one day, 'Rhoda,' she said, 'would you go and get me a t inof pineapple? I want t o make some pineapple icecream'. Johnsons used t ohave the shop on the corner o f Semaphore Road and Mi l i ta ry Road - tha twasn't far. Anyhow I had to walk down - there was no other way, no buses oranything, l ike, then - I walked down and I got i t . I came home, I opened i t up,and I put the pineapple in one dish and I drank the juice. She said, 'Well, ' shesaid, 'you get the pineapple?' I said, 'Yes, I've opened i t ' . She said, 'Where's thejuice?' I said, 'I drank i t ' . 'Oh,' she said, 'that's what I wanted'. (laughs) I had togo and get another t in.

Another incident there. She had a friend, Evie Gray, come from America -[the McKays] were Americans you see. She had an Evie Gray come there fromAmerica - she was an actress - to stay wi th her. Anyhow, Evie and I couldn'tget on together. I don't know why. I didn't l ike her - I took a dislike to her -and she must have taken a dislike to me. Anyhow, Mrs McKay came to me oneday and she said, 'You know,' she said, 'Rhoda, things are missing out o f mydrawers. I can't f ind th is and I can't f ind that ' . And she came to me one dayand she said, 'You know those pair of stockings?' - they were al l worked wi thsilk, coloured silk, up the side. She said, ' I can't f ind them anywhere'. 'Well,' Isaid, ' I haven't got them'. ' I wonder where they can be,' she said. She said toEvie, she said, ' I 've lost a pair o f stockings worked up the side,' she said, ' Ican't f ind - - -'. 'Oh,' Evie Gray said, ' I suppose Rhoda's taken them'. 'Oh no,'Mrs McKay said. 'They'd be no good to Rhoda'. They'd be no good t o me - Ididn't take them.

Anyhow, there were some people l ived next door to where Mrs McKay hadtheir place, name of Gooch, and he fe l l for this Evie Gray. He had a positionin Adelaide - big position in Adelaide - and he said — . Rang up one day andhe asked her to go - to meet him in town at the South Australian Hotel and goto the theatre wi th him. No, she met him i n town, that 's r ight. She rang up.She said t o Mrs McKay, 'Would you get so-and-so out of my box,' she said. 'Iwon't be home to dinner tonight, ' she said, 'I'm going to the theatre with - - - 'this Gooch - I don't know what his other name was, christian name was. AndMrs McKay said, ' A l l r igh t , I ' l l ge t them f o r you'. Ev ie must've forgotten,because M r s McKay w e n t t o he r box, the re was t h e things t h a t she wastaking. There were the stockings - no, the stockings weren't there, but otherthings were. Anyhow she turned her out. Oh yes, she turned her out.

And about , o h , some months a f t e r t h a t , another f r i e n d c a m e f r o mAmerica t o v is i t , and Mrs McKay came out o f the kitchen to me. She said,'Rhoda, I want you up in the si t t ing room f o r a while'. I went up there. She

ATB/15/129-615 M r s Rhoda PLUSH 19.'S.A. SPEAKS' 8 6 1 5

said, 'Look,' she said, 'you remember those?' I t was the stockings. This womanhad t he stockings on. Evie Gray'd given her the stockings. Now, would you- - -. That 's the t r u th - I 'm no t te l l ing a l ie . Bu t would you believe tha t aperson can give her stockings and tha t person would come to the house thatthey went from?

Did you find that the McKays and their American friends were much different toAustralian people?

No, I didn't. I got on wi th them lovely. No, I didn't f ind them anything muchdifferent a t a l l . Bu t then they wen t - —. H e was cal led, he had t o go t oAmerica. I was s t i l l wi th them and they took me Melbourne wi th them. Theyhad to go to Melbourne, rather - he was transferred to Melbourne. They askedDad and Mum, could I go to Melbourne? Oh yes, I could go to Melbourne, sothey took me to Melbourne wi th them. They l ived a t St K i lda - had a lovelyhome at St Kilda, they rented a home at St Kilda.

How old would you have been then?

Oh, I suppose about f i f teen - fourteen or f i f teen. I was s t i l l Phil's nurse buthelped i n t h e house, you know. Anyhow, when they we re there about s ixmonths, they got word t o say tha t they'd have t o go back t o America. Wellthey wanted to take me to America too. Mum was agreeable but Dad wasn't,so my brother, Snow - Bi l l , the eldest one - he came over t o Melbourne andbrought me home.

Did you want to go?

Yes, I'd have gone. Yes I would have loved to have gone. L i fe would have beenentirely di fferent wouldn't i t?

Yes.

I would love to have gone. Anyhow they went and about twelve months after -eighteen months af ter - they came back to South Austral ia, came straight toMum t o get me to go back wi th them but I was married. I got married in themeantime. I was seventeen when I got married.

When you'd first started working for the McKays, did you live in their home at theEsplanade?

Yes. Oh yes, I lived there.

How did you feel about leaving the family home?

I didn't mind. No, they were so nice - they were so lovely people. I t was homefrom home. I t was really lovely.


Did they have anyone else to help in the house?

No.

During the time you were there, did they give you any raise from the six shillings?

No. I was quite happy. I used to come home and give Mum the f ive shillingsand I 'd keep a shi l l ing. O f course money was nothing t o me i n those daysmuch. Mum used to buy my clothing and those sorts of things.

You were saying you were taking l itt le Philip to school and you were dressed inyour cape and bonnet. Would children tease you?

No. Oh I wish I had a photograph of myself. I'd love to have one in the bonnet.

Were there other girls in the district doing the same sort of thing as you?

No I was the only one. I would only just see him t o the gate and then comehome. See him into the yard. He was a lovely l i t t l e kid.

Was he the oldest child?

No, he was the youngest. He was only about six. Don was the other boy's name- Donald - and Marion. Marion used to wear a padded here [hips] to give herhips - you know, give her hips. They padded here. She said to me one day, 'Oh,'she said, 'I wish I had your hips, and I didn't have to wear this pad'. (laughs)

How old was she?

Oh, she was about - oh, she might've been about twelve months older than Iwas.

Where did Mr McKay work?

Down the cement works. He was the manager.

What was the name of the company?

Just the Cement Works. They're st i l l there - Brighton Cement Works. Only i twasn't the Brighton Cement Works then. I t had another name but I just can'tthink of i t , but i t was the Cement Works.

When you were at school, before this job came up, did you have any idea of thesort of work you wanted to do?

No, not real ly. I thought I 'd l ike to be a nurse. I would loved to have been anurse but I don't think I could - - . Can I go on?

Yes.

But this is taken farther on.

Yes.


We wen t t o Wilcannia. M y husband - m y o ther husband, second husband -broke h is leg, and we were about twenty f i ve mi les away f rom the stat ionthen. We were i n Wilcannia. Now, Mount Murchison, where we were, wastwenty f ive miles out.

See, Pd just los t my daughter, Bet ty - she was nine months old - and hecame round to where I was staying one day wi th a horse, a l i t t le cream pony.The doctor said I wouldn' t l ive. Yo u know, t he loss o f Be t ty, had sor t o fbroken me down. He said, 'Midnight' - - -. This night he said to Bi l l [Plush], hesaid, ' I can' t do any more'. He said, ' I can' t do anything more fo r her'. Well ,the next day two nuns came and, you know, they saved my l i f e , those twonuns. I'd never have anything against the Cathol ic religion. They saved m ylife, they did, the way they spoke to me. To ld me to think o f my other twochildren and what I should do and what I shouldn't do, and then I could realisewhat had happened.

Well anyhow, I was s t i l l there a f ter tha t - wi th [the Chandlers] - and Bi l lbought th is pony. Brought i t round, and the man with i t , and he was going tobuy i t fo r me you see. Well, when they were leaving, Bi l l jumped up the backof the pony - see, t he back o f the other man - and the pony reared up l ikethat and B i l l fe l l o f f , broke his leg. I heard i t snap. Anyhow he was taken toWilcannia hospital and they were very busy. D r Holstrom was there and heasked me would I go and help them w i t h the hospital i f I had nothing else todo. Wel l , i t was just as wel l , because i t gave me something t o do. So theygave me a patient that had a fever - scarlet fever - to look af ter. She was inanother room on her own and there was only one person t o look a f t e r her.Well, I was looking a f te r that patient, the scarlet fever patient. Anyhow, wegot on al l r ight.

Bill was s t i l l i n hospital and I was sleeping i n the nurses' quarters. Andthey brought a man in one night, oh, about ten o'clock. They'd heard about i tand Dr Holstrom had rang Broken Hi l l and asked them would they send out DrMacGill ivray to Wilcannia to help him operate on this man because he was ina very bad condition. I th ink i t was something to do wi th the prostate gland,I'm no t sure. Anyhow, Dr MacGil l ivray was on his way out when his car brokedown and he couldn't get there. The nurses and I in the meantime had cleanedall the women's w a r d - a l l the walls - washed a l l the ward and got i t cleanbecause there wasn't a good operating theatre there. And Dr Holstrom had todo the operation on his own. About f ive o'clock the next morning I heard thisawful noise. I said to nurse, 'VVhatever's that?' 0 h , ' she said, ' that man's died'.


Oh, I go t ou t o f bed, I went t o the kitchen, and I walked out. I couldn'ttake any more. I said to the cook, I said, ' I ' l l go through the paddock a t theback. I won't meet Dr Holstrom' - because he always used to come round thefront. And the f i r s t person I me t was D r Holstrom. He said, 'What are youdoing out this hour of the morning?' I said, 'I'm sorry, Doctor, ' I said, 'but I'mleaving. I can't take any more'. I said 'I heard that man die,' I said, 'and I can'ttake any more'. 'Oh,' he said, 'you' l l get over that, ' he said. ' I t 's just l ike ussitting down and having a cup of tea, ' he said, 'we don't notice i t ' . 'Oh,' I said,'I did'. I didn't go back again though.

END OF TAPE 1 SIDE B: TA P E 2 SIDE A

How old were you when your little girl died up at Wilcannia?

Wait a minute. Betty?

Yes.

She'd be about - she was nine months old. Twenty four, twenty f i ve - some-where around that age, I think, about twenty f ive.

We'll be talking about those years a l i t t le bit later on. I wanted to ask you somemore about your work as a teenager. You had to come back from Melbourne. Didyou travel back with your brother?

Yes, and Mother was sick in bed and she had - - -. I t was Dr Morr is I think,and Dr Morr is or old Dr Drummond - one of those two doctors - knocked atthe door. I'd only been home a couple of days and I answered the door. 'Oh,' hesays, 'who are you?' I said 'I'm the daughter o f the house'. 'Oh,' he said, 'areyou?' He said, ' I haven't seen you before'. I said, 'No, I 've jus t come f romMelbourne, working in Melbourne'. 'Oh.' Anyhow, I knocked him back when Isaid 'I'm the daughter of the house'. (laughs)

Anyhow, he came back the next day and he said to me, 'Are you wanting ajob?' I said, 'Not part icularly' . 'Well, ' he said, ' I have a fr iend in Jamestown'.He said, 'I 'd l ike you to go up and work fo r him up there - a doctor up there'.'Oh,' I said, 'no, not just for a while'. I said, 'I don't want to go for a while yet'.I said, ' I ' l l stay home for a while'. And that was al l r ight, he went off . I didn'tgo to Jamestown.

But a few months a f ter I got i tchy fee t again and I went t o Owen, and Iworked up there. People wanted somebody to look a f ter his fami ly while hiswife went to hospital to have another baby. When I got up there, there was sixchildren.

You didn't know?

ATB/I5/129-615 M r s Rhoda PLUSH 2 3 .'S.A. SPEAKS' 8 6 1 5

No. I was only about sixteen. Yes, I was sixteen. I had t o look a f t e r t hechildren and housekeep a t sixteen. His w i fe was in hospital t o have anotherbaby. Their name was Dillon. Anyhow one of the girls - Gladys Dillon - said tome one day, she said, 'Would you mind milking the cow for me this morning?I've got a sore hand. I can't milk ' . 'Oh, wel l , ' I said, 'I 've never milked a cowbefore'. I 've milked goats. So I said, h a v e a go anyhow'. Well, the bucketwent one way and I went the other. (laughs) The cow kicked. I thought, no, Icouldn't mi lk a cow - never milked a cow in my l i fe.

When had you milked goats?

In Palparara. Oh, that's later. But I'd never milked a cow.

How did you hear about the job at Owen?

From the - in the paper I think i t was. I'm not too sure. But anyhow, I went upthere, and I did a good job up there.

How long did you stay up at Owen?

Oh, about seven or eight months.

What sort of pay did you get there?

Not very much. About ten shillings as week I think. I 've really forgotten thepay I got. I think about ten shillings a week, not much.

How did you manage with all the children?

Oh, very well. We got on very wel l together. I enjoyed working in the country- always did love the country.

Where do you think that came from, the love of the country?

I don't know. My eldest brother was the same, he had i tchy feet too. But he'dleave home and he'd leave a note to say he'd gone, but he'd always come backagain. He hated saying goodbye and he'd leave a note to say, 'Mum, I'm goingso - - -,' but he was mostly on boats. He was cooking - a steward - on boats,mostly.

You would have been about sixteen or seventeen when you came back from Owen.

I wasn't seventeen when I came back - wasn't quite. I was seventeen when Iwas married.

Pd l ike to talk to you about your f irst marriage. Can you tell me the circum-stances of marrying as young as that.


Well, i t was a case o f have-to, b u t I was innocent, I knew nothing. That'swhere I had i t against Mother, she didn't t e l l us anything a t a l l . The samewhen I got my periods. I didn't know what i t was. I ran to Mum frightened - Ididn't know what to think i t was. Well Mother should have told us. You know,that isn ' t f a i r. That 's why I th ink mothers are r ight these days in bringingtheir chi ldren up t o know al l these things. They know what to expect, don'tthey? Never knew anything. Innocent.

Yes, you've mentioned that your first husband worked with your father.

That's right.

Had you known him for long?

Oh, wel l , we were - used t o walking out wi th him. Oh yes, I'd known him fo rtwelve months or more. Used t o go walking down the Semaphore Jet ty w i thhim and that, you know.

Was he the same sort of age as you?

No he was older - twelve months older.

So quite a boy himself.

Yes. I 've got the Marriage Licence in there - nineteen he was. No, he musthave been two years older. He was nineteen I think. I was seventeen. That wasnineteen hundred and ten.

Can you tel l me a litt le bit about the time of your marriage? Do you rememberwhen you found out that you were pregnant?

I to ld h im the night I marr ied h im t h a t I hated him. I said, ' I don't want t omarry you but people are making me, but,' I said, h a t e the sight of you,' andI told him straight I did too.

Did he want to get married?

Yes, but I didn't.

How long had you known you were pregnant?

Oh about - oh, must've been showing up wel l for Mum to f ind out, but I didn'tknow what i t was. I didn't really know what i t was.

So she suggested to you that you might be, did she?

Yes. I didn't know what i t was.

Had you and your boyfriend been together a number o f times before you gotpregnant?


Oh yes, we'd been going out together qui te a while. Just don't know how i thappened. I t 's st i l l a mystery to me.

Had you had sex a number of times?

Not tha t I can remember. No, I don't th ink so. Pm sure I didn't. Only once Ithink.

So you were very unlucky.

Yes. Only the once, and I can remember that , but that 's the only t ime I canremember, only the once, and that's when i t must have happened. But I didn'tthen know what i t was. You know what I mean.

Didn't know what it meant.

No, I didn't know what i t meant then, and that's the bi t ter part of i t .

You say that your mother hadn't given you any warnings or advice.

No warnings. I knew absolutely nothing a t a l l . I t wouldn't have happened, Idon't think, had I known. No, I don't think so.

You've mentioned before that you knew when your mother was having a baby andwhat it meant to be pregnant.

Yes, bu t I didn' t know how. I didn' t seem t o th ink about i t . I didn't stop t othink, oh, how, o r why, o r anything l i ke tha t . Just took i t as a mat te r o fcourse.

Was i t something that you young girls, amongst your friends - was i t somethingyou talked about?

No. Gladys Foster and I never talked about anything l ike that. She was just asinnocent as I was.

What was your mother's reaction when she suggested that you might be pregnant?

Oh, the r ight reaction I suppose, you know - must get married. She didn't gointo hysterics or anything l ike that - just took i t as a matter of course, as faras I can remember.

Was your father told at the time?

Yes.

What did he say?

The same reaction. I wasn't beaten or growled a t or anything l ike that. Theyjust did the right thing.


Well, I think i t happened fairly frequently at the time. Did you know at that timeother girls that had to get married?

No I didn't.

I've certainly heard of a lot.

You do, but no I didn't.

Were there any other choices given to you or was marriage was the only one?

Marriage the only one. No other choices.

You say that your boyfriend was happy to get married?

Oh yes. He loved me r ight up unt i l the end, but I didn't love him. I hated him,but I loved my children.

So you say you were showing a little by the time you got married.

Yes.

Where did you get married?

Exmouth Road in the house - in the f i rs t house. The f i rs t house we lived in.

Who married you?

Oh. It's on the Cert i f icate. I 've got i t in there, dear.

Was it a minister?

Yes. Oh yes, a minister.

I expect that the family didn't tell other people much about the circumstances.

No, I don't th ink Mum — -. She didn't - she wasn't a person to talk much. Shekept mostly to herself. She had one fr iend - an old lady - old Mrs Hurren. Shehad one old f r iend and she used t o come over every night. She'd come overabout seven o'clock and about nine o'clock they'd go over - ei ther one o f uschildren would go over the Cumberland Hotel and get her a bott le of beer anda meat pie. They always kept the meat pie wi th a bott le of beer, and this oldlady, Hurren, she'd have th is meat pie and a bot t le o f beer wi th Mum, thenshe'd go home. But she always — -. She took my hockey st ick and she alwaysused my hockey stick.

Was that as a walking stick or to defend herself?

No, just to walk with. Poor old lady.

Did people other than the immediate family come to the wedding?

No, only just the family, that's all.


Did you know your in-laws - your first husband's parents?

Oh yes. Oh yes, I got on well wi th them. There was May and Lizzie - that's histwo sisters - and the father, he was an Englishman, Ely. The mother - Oscar's[RP's f i r s t husband] mother was German - her name was Schultz. We wereliving up there and his Aunt Meena was buying this house that we were livingin a t Semaphore Park, and we were buying the house o f f them, but we foundthat we couldn't keep up the payments, you know, no t on the wage he wasgetting. So we had to give i t up and we came and lived with Mum for a while.And then we moved then to Mellor Road, that's Glanville again. Then we wentto, in 1914 when the war broke out - just before the war broke out - we wentto Port Augusta.

Yes, I wanted to ask you some more about that.

He was working on the new railway.

I'll ask you about that in a few minutes. So i t would have been a few months afteryou were married that your first boy was born.

Yes. We were married in June, nineteen hundred and ten, and Er ic was bornon August the f i f teenth, 1910.

Once your mother knew you were pregnant and getting married, did she thenadvise you about being pregnant and having babies?

No. She was a very - - -. She was a good mother but she had no idea - youknow what I mean? She was a good mother, she loved her children and herchildren couldn't do anything wrong, bu t there was lots o f things, when youlook back, tha t she could have told her daughters - to prepare them. But shedidn't.

Did you know what to expect with having a baby?

No. No, I didn't.

How did you feel as it got nearer to the time?

I suppose I just took i t in my stride, dear. I don't remember very much abouti t . I must have just taken i t in my stride.

Where did you have the baby?

In t h a t house, t h e same house. H e was born i n t h e same house w e weremarried in. Exmouth Road.

Who helped with the birth?

Mrs Nettleton, a midwife.


Can you remember what it was like?

No. No, I had easy births wi th al l my children - no trouble at all. The last wasBetty, then she was — O h well, that's later.

Did a doctor also come?

Yes, Dr Drummond. He lived on Semaphore Road. He's passed on now.

At that stage, would the doctor have given you anything for the pain?

No, I don't remember.

Did your mother help with the birth too?

No I don't think so. She kept to the back quarters. No, she wasn't there.

How did you react on seeing your first baby?

Oh, I loved him. He was beautiful. I've got photos of him here, he was beauti-ful.

Who was he named for? Anyone in particular?

After his Uncle - Oscar. Er ic was my choice, but he had an uncle - - -. Oscarhad a brother - - -. N o , h e was named a f t e r h is fa ther, that 's r igh t - h issecond name, Oscar. There was Herman in the fami ly.

Were you still living in your mother's home at the time of the baby's birth, or hadyou come home?

Yes, st i l l l iving there.

How long did you stay with your mother after?

Not very long af ter that. We went to Mellor Road and lived there for a while.

Which suburb was that in?

Glanville.

Were you able to look after him, as an infant, by yourself?

Oh yes, I managed all r ight.

Did your mother help you look after him when he was a newborn baby?

Oh yes, she helped, b u t I j us t seemed t o manage on m y own somehow. Iseemed to get the courage to manage somehow.

You were still only, what, seventeen years old yoursel?

Yes, that 's r igh t . B u t I seemed t o be mature somehow. Working I supposemakes you mature, doesn't i t ? Lo ts a re mature i n some ways and no t i nothers.


What do you remember about the day-to-day routine, for instance - washingnappies, that sort of thing? Because back in those days you would be doing it all byhand.

Al l by hand, yes, wi th a washboard, you know. And no bought food for babies.You had t o cook i t and mash i t up yourself. My husband then, he was a greatdancer, but I was never one for parties or dancing much, and every Saturdaynight he'd want to go to a dance. I didn't bother at f i rs t - I just let him go. ButI got a b i t t i red o f i t , being l e f t home ever Saturday night wi th the childrenwhile he went dancing. (laughs) Then one night, he was dressing up, you know,and they used t o wear these s t i f f col lars - you know, these s t i f f starchedcollars. I just went in to the bedroom and I got his collars and I twisted themall up and he didn't have a collar to go to dancing - couldn't go that night. Afew weeks af ter - they'd wear these hard h i t te r hats. You remember the hardhit ter hats?

I've heard of them.

He was going o f f again and I went and I put my f i s t r ight through the top ofthe hard hi t ter and he couldn't wear his hard h i t ter hat.

How would he react to that sort of behaviour by you?

Well, he just looked at me, as i f he'd l ike to k i l l me, but he didn't. (laughs)

Was he ever violent towards you?

Yes, once, when Eric le t the horse out in the backyard and ate the trees - hewas growing trees. But I didn't let him know Eric let the horse out. He wantedto know who l e t t h e horse ou t . I said I d idn ' t know. I said I could haveaccidentally l e f t i t open, and he grabbed me by the neck, l i ke this, and hesaid, 'Tel l me who let that horse out,' and he banged my head against the wall.I wouldn' t t e l l h im. H e s t i l l d idn ' t know t h a t E r i c had l e t t he horse out .Accidentally. He was only a kiddie, so I wasn't going to put him into trouble.

Other than that, did he - - -?

No, that was the last.

He didn't hit you.

No. We moved then t o Young Street, Exeter. He was st i l l working fo r Dad,but *Mum came down one day and she saw t h a t I 'd been crying. She said,'You've been crying again'. I said, 'Yes, Mum'. 'Oh,' she said, 'there's only onething t o do,' she said, 'You ' l l have t o go away'. She said, 'You ' l l have to goaway f o r some t ime, ' she said. ' I ' l l look a f t e r Er ic , ' she said, 'but take Ronwith you'. Well Ron was only four. See, there was six years difference in theirages. So I got this job at Oodnadatta.


Yes, well, I 'd like to talk with you about that in a minute or so. You said thatthere were six years between your first children.

Oh well I lost one in between that, in Port Augusta.

We must talk about that time as well. Had you had any advice from anyone aboutbirth control?

No, nothing at all.

I know that there weren't a lot of places for women to get advice in those times.

No.

What sort o f medical help did you have with the children? You've mentioned adoctor.

Dr Bollen.

Would you go to him regularly with the children?

No, doctors came to you in those days. You didn't have to go like you do now.Mother came round one day - round to Bucknall Road we lived in then - and Iwas carrying Ron, and my lips were black. She got frightened and she sent forDr Bollen and he came immediately, and he said i t was my heart and carrying,but he said I'd be al l r ight . Ninety four - I 'm s t i l l here - but I 've s t i l l got totake heart tablets for an enlarged heart, so I've got to take one every morningfor enlarged heart. That's the only tablet I take really - for enlarged heart.

You've mentioned that you lost a baby in between the two.

Yes.

Was the baby born or miscarried?

No, born.

Did it survive?

I'd had one miscarriage. That's when Mum - - -. Oh, I could go back. WhenFreeman's gave up the f r u i t shop, Mum thought she'd l i ke t o take the f ru i tshop on, so we le f t Exmouth Road and went round to the f ru i t shop. The shopis s t i l l there but i t 's made into a house almost now. That's when I had a mis-carriage then, and they took me up to - - -. The doctor couldn't do any more.He sa id t o Oscar, h e said, 'You ' l l have t o take her up t o t h e hospital -Adelaide Hospital'. So took me up the Adelaide Hospital and they fixed me upthere, and the Matron - one of the sisters - came along to the ward one day.She said t o the nurse, 'What's th is l i t t l e g i r l doing here i n the b i r th place'.'Oh,' she said, 'she's a marr ied woman'. She said, 'She's got a l i t t l e son, andnow she's had a miscarriage'. 'Oh,' she said, ' I thought she was only a l i t t l egirl '. (laughs) So, that was that incident.


How long did the baby survive who died?

Nine months. I've got the photo here. [examine photographs] No, I haven't gotone of Robbie. He died in Port Augusta. That must have been in about nine-teen hundred and twelve, o r th i r teen - might have been 1913, because wedidn't go up there t i l l just before the First World War broke out. Because mybrother came up to say goodbye when he went to the war. I can see him now.He had his - dressed up - and he had his l i t t le cane - he was a captain. Oh, hewas lovely.

So that would have been 1914 that the war started.

Yes.

So you didn't go up to Port Augusta until - -

1913 or early '14 i t must've been.

You've mentioned that your husband liked to go out dancing. Was he a drinkingman?

No. No he wasn't a drinking man. No, there's been very l i t t l e l iquor i n ourhome l i fe - very l i t t l e indeed.

What about gambling?

No. N o gambling e i ther. I 'm the gambler. I 'm always buying those scratchytickets. (laughs)

You mentioned your husband teasing you with the pay one week.

Oh yes.

Did he give you housekeeping money each week?

Yes. Oh yes, he just had a teasing mood and I wasn't in a mood t o take i t .(laughs)

END OF TAPE 2 SIDE A: TA P E 2 SIDE B

Well, I wanted to ask you about going up to Port Augusta. Why did your husbanddecide to go up there?

I don't know dear. We'd had our fortune told - by Mrs Bray. Now, they lived atGlanville Blocks, and - —. That's a funny thing how things come about. Wewent to have our fortune told and she said, 'You're going to go overseas'. Well,that's as far as we got - overseas at Port Augusta, over the other, west side.But Mrs Bray, she to ld my tealeaves, and we did shi f t a f ter that, and we didgo t o Por t Augusta, and we did occasionally go over water - over the otherside. So there was a bi t of t ruth in i t , wasn't there? (laughs)


Had you had your fortune told before that?

No.

Do you remember why you had it done?

[queries question]

Do you remember why you had it done?

No, just fun I think. Because she lived up there by my auntie. So, that's how Iknow.

Had your husband been working for your father up until that time?

No, he worked at the sugar works - at the Glanvil le sugar works - when I wasgoing w i th h im. That's where he was working. Bu t when we got married hewent and worked for Dad.

Up until you went to Port Augusta, did he stay working with your father?

Yes. I don't know why we went up there. I suppose thinking we'd earn moremoney o r something, probably, and we did. We lived in what they cal l ShantyTown. I t was a l l made o f bags, but wel l made. I t wasn't just anyhow. Therewas a main room - big dining room there - and then the bedroom, a l l madenicely, and the back porch. They were just l ike as i f we lived in a house, but i twas called Shanty Town. I don't th ink i t 's there now though. Of course i t 's al lgone now.

What sort of floors did you have?

Mud. Bags on i t .

Were you able to keep it comfortable?

Oh yes, qu i t e comfortable. A n d that 's where I learned t o m i l k t h e goat .(laughs) Just thought of i t - we had the goat there, goat's milk.

So you went up perhaps - i f i t was just after the start of World War One it wouldhave been late 1914.

Yes.

How long were you up there?

Well we must have been up there fo r some t ime because we got up as far asPimba on the East-West Line - i t was Pimba. Well, that 's where those photoswere taken, at Pimba - those two l i t t l e ones there.

Of your boy?


Yes. And we used to have the — -. You know, they showed the train the otherweek on the TV - the Tea and Sugar Train.

Yes.

We used to get our stuff o f f the train, just l ike the same as that.

So would you have been up there over a year?

Oh I think so, yes.

What work was your husband doing?

He was working on the railway.

So he was a ganger, or a navvie?

Oh just a working man. He wasn't a ganger - he just an ordinary working man,working on t he rai lways. We l i ved i n a t en t then too. So I 've roughed i t .(laughs)

Yes. How long were you in Shanty Town?

Must've been twelve months - quite twelve months.

Would that be staying in the same place?

Yes. Oh, w e go t established there, you know, i t was qu i te nice. And n iceneighbours too. Everything was nice.

So there were other women and children.

Oh yes, there were qui te a few people l ived there - working on the rai lway.It's an experience.

As you say, you started moving up the Line, as far as Pimba.

Yes. I was just thinking. Some men had one par t - you know, the men wouldlive on the i r own. They'd have one room away or something l ike that . I waswalking along there one day and I nearly got drowned in - - -. He'd used hispot overnight and he threw i t out of the window and I just missed i t . (laughs)Oh, these l i t t l e incidences tha t happen - they come back t o you as you goalong, you know. Some funny things happened. (laughs)

You had your oldest boy with you.

Yes.

Was the one who died at the age of nine months - - -.

That was Robbie.

Did you take him up with you or was he born up there?


Oh no, he was born up there.

Where was he born?

Port Augusta Hospital.

In the hospital.

Yes. He was named af ter Robert Ely - see, his uncle, Oscar's uncle.

What were the circumstances of Robbie dying?

Well, he just - - -. I th ink i t was mostly - - -. Don't know really what i t was.Not get t ing enough at tent ion I th ink, proper at tent ion, I th ink i t was. Yo ucouldn't get the attent ion then that you can now. I don't know really what i twas.

Was he a sickly baby from the time he was born?

No he wasn't, he wasn't a sickly baby. I was only young and I really don't knowwhat really happened. Things don't seem to press on your mind then l ike theydo as you get older. And I know his sister - my husband's sister, May, came up,to be w i th me, whi ls t - you know, a f te r the funeral. But there's not much Iremember about i t . I was too busy, I think. You know, you worked hard.

Did you get help from the other women living around you?

Oh, there was only one person I made up wi th, bu t I can't th ink of her namenow. She was very nice, but I just can't think of her name now.

Were there other women your young age?

No, mostly older - most of them older than I was. I t was a big thing to take onI think, at my age then. I should have been enjoying l i fe.

Did you feel that at the time?

No. Oh no, I didn't.

When you were moving up the Line, how would you move from place to place?

We only moved the once, dear, up to Pimba, and to there we'd have to go bytrain. We didn ' t have t h a t much t o move anyhow. Mos t o f your personalbelongings mostly.

How did you spend your days?

Working. (laughs)

What sort of things would you have to do?


Not much leisure, no concerts, no plays or anything l i ke tha t t o go t o - nopictures or anything to go to.

Living in the tents, how did you manage things like washing?

Oh, must have managed all r ight.

Was there a laundry tent?

No. Just had the tub, the round tub, and the washboard.

What were the cooking and heating facilities like?

Just an open stove and that's all.

How did you feel about being up there? Did you want to stay?

Oh well, there was nothing else - I just had to stay, dear. Then, when we cameback again - I th ink i t was just before the war ended we came back again Ithink. Because I was l iving home again wi th Mother when we got word aboutSnow being killed. So we must have come back about early in 1918.

What work did your husband do when you came back?

I th ink he went back wi th Dad again. He was s t i l l working w i th Dad when Ilef t h im, anyhow. When I went away. I d idn ' t actual ly leave h im the f i r s ttime. Mother just wanted me to go away to get a b i t o f a break, and that'swhen I went to Oodnadatta. That was in 1920.

So you were back down in Adelaide for perhaps two years before you went up toOodnadatta.

Yes. Er ic was ten and Ron was four. That's how I know i t was 1920 when I le f tto go to Oodnadatta.

Had Ron been born while you were up at Port Augusta?

No, he was born in Bucknall Road, Glanvil le, Ron - he was four.

That was after you got back from - - -.

I t must have been. Because see, Eric was born in nineteen hundred and ten, hewas born i n 1916, so i t must have - just a f te r we come back f rom - and welived in Bucknall Road.

You say he was born in the home?

Yes.

You mentioned you had Robbie at the Port Augusta Hospital. Did you think aboutgoing to hospital for Ron?

No, Dr Bolien was very good. He came to the house - he was very good.

ATS/15/129-615 M r s Rhoda PLUSH 36 .'S.A. SPEAKS' 8 6 1 5

Yes, he was a very well respected doctor, wasn't he?

He was, yes. Dr Percy Bolien. Very good, very attentive.

Did your oldest boy start any of his schooling while you were up at Port Augusta?

Yes. I l e f t him home - Eric home. He was st i l l going to LeFevre school. That'swhy I didn't take him away.

Oh, up to Oodnadatta.

Yes. He was st i l l going to school. You see Ron hadn't started school. Ron wasonly four.

Why do you think you finally made the move after ten years, to leave your hus-band?

Well, I don't know. When I l e f t h im, he come and begged me to come backagain, but I couldn't. I said no, I couldn't. I told him straight out I couldn't. So,that was that.

Was he cruel to you in those years?

No. No, there was only just those few incidents down Semaphore Park.

From my point of view, I can imagine you'd been growing up all that time?

I'd been growing up, yes, and getting a b i t o f sense. (laughs) But I didn't havemuch - - -. There was no amusement i n m y l i f e , you know what I mean -nothing outstanding a t a l l real ly. Only just drudge and work - that's al l therewere.

It's interesting that your mother should suggest that you leave him for a while.

Yes she did. She could see how unhappy I was. She had sense in that respect.She thought i t might do me good. Well , i t did, because I went up there as ahousemaid/waitress and the Cusacks were very, very good people. They werelovely people and lovely t o me. Then the cook le f t and I took over the cook-ing, and I wasn't very old, and hotel cooking's a lot, you know.

Mr Cusack came one day and he said, 'Would you l ike to come out and seea mob of catt le?' This is al l in the twenties. So I said, 'Yes I would l ike to seea mob of catt le'. 'Well,' he said, 'there's a mob a few miles out'. He said, 'We'llgo out and we' l l take you wi th us, and,' he said, 'bring Ron wi th you too'. Sowe went out and we saw these catt le. I saw this chappy there on a horseback.I d idn ' t take any not ice o f h im - there were qu i te a few men in w i t h thecatt le, you know - but he kept coming over t o M r Cusack. I didn't take anynotice of him. Of course I was married - I had the child. And anyhow, he was


showing this mob of catt le, and they were lovely catt le. He introduced me tothe head stockman - the head drover - Mr Bi l l Plush. I thought no more aboutit.

Anyhow, a couple of days af ter the other housemaid - her name was Rosie- she said, 'A chap in there wants a cup of tea and wants some lunch'. 'Well,' Isaid, 'you get i t for him'. So I got the lunch and she took i t in. This happenedtwo or three times. He kept coming. And then the fourth t ime she come out,she said, 'He doesn't want me to wait on him, he wants you'. 'Oh,' I said, 'that'sfunny. Now come?' 0 h , ' she said, ' I don't know, but he wants you'. So I wentin. I said, ' I can't wait on you,' I said, 'I'm the cook'. 'Oh,' he said, ' it 's not her Iwant to see, i t 's you,' he said, 'I've come to see you three times now, and eachtime you've not come in'.

So anyhow he kept coming back and back. Then he said he wanted me tostop up there. I said, 'Oh no,' I said, 'I 'm a married woman,' I said, 'We've gottwo children. I 've got a husband'. That was that . Anyhow, I was up there sixmonths and I said goodbye to him. He came to the train and we said goodbye.Didn't intend to meet again. But he kept pestering me af ter I come back. Soeventually I gave in and that 's how i t happened and I went back wi th him toAnna Creek.

How much longer was that after you'd been - - -?

That's about, oh, I suppose, about twe lve months. See I was up there s ixmonths. I t must have been about six months af ter when I come back. I t mighthave been six months or more.

So that would have been about 1921, '22 - about that time.

Yes.

How had you felt about leaving your oldest boy at home with your mother?

Oh wel l , I knew he was a l l r ight . But a f te r a whi le, when we went to Wi l -cannia we had him w i t h us too. He came up too, and he went t o school i nWilcannia. Yes I had the two boys wi th me. And that's where I lost Betty, yousee, in Wilcannia. She was born at Morden.

That's in northwest New South Wales.

Yes. I've got her photo here.

When you returned from Oodnadatta, did you go back to your husband?

Yes. Oh yes, I came back.


At that time were you intending to stay?

Yes. Pd no idea of leaving him. I think i f Bi l l hadn't have come af ter me l ikehe did, i t would never have happened, b u t he said he couldn't. He said hecouldn't le t me go - that's how things were - so he kept pestering me. BecauseI know Exeter Station - the train used to stop at Exeter Station then - and mybrother Wal came to see me off . I remember him saying to Bi l l , ' I f you're notgood to my sister, I ' l l k i l l you'. I remember him saying that. B i l l said, ' I ' l l begood to her,' and he was. A l l these l i t t le things happen.

Was Anna Creek the next place that you went to after Oodnadatta?

Yes, we went straight to Anna Creek after Oodnadatta.

Was Bill working there?

Yes he was head stockman there.

What was that place like?

Very nice. I had Ron with me then. I didn't have Eric, I had Ron with me then,and I had nothing t o do a t al l . The cook was there - they had a cook, and ahouseboy, bookkeeper, gardener. They had a l l those - I had nothing t o do atall. I can remember Ron. I went into the kitchen one day and the cook said tome, 'For goodness sake, take this boy out'. I said, 'Why?"0h , wel l , ' she said,'that's i t . Everything he asks me is "why?'". (laughs) She said, ' I can't answerhim'. She says, 'Everything he asks me is "why?" . 'Oh,' I said, 'he must getthat from his mother'.

Were you living with Bill at this time?

Yes.

So had you made up your mind that you weren't going back to your first husband?

Oh yes, I couldn't go back.

Did he follow you up there or try to get you back?

No. He did before we le f t town. He came up to town and asked me to go backwith him again, but I said no I couldn't.

How did your parents feel about your decision to leave him?

Oh, jus t seemed t o take i t in the i r str ide. I th ink i t worr ied Mum, bu t shewent down h i l l af ter Snow was killed, and I think this happening af ter i t didn'tdo her any good.


Did you worry about what other people would think about you leaving and livingwith someone else?

No. No, i t didn't worry me. I was too s i l ly, I th ink - too young and si l ly t oworry about i t .

Did you find that people up North were different to people down in the city?

Oh, they were lovely, always lovely. Yes , t reated you w i th respect, a l l o fthem - no di fferent. Then we were in A l ice Springs f o r two years - a lo t o fstations. D i f fe ren t Kidman's places - a l l Kidman's places. We'd be on oneplace fo r two years, then they'd - - -. Somebody would ask for us to go thereand we'd be shifted there, and there fo r another two years, then we shiftedsomewhere else. I t was all experience.

From what you were telling me, you were various places in the 1920s themselves -Anna Creek. Would you have then gone to Morden Station?

We went to Morden Station in '24 I think. I th ink i t was '24. Kid man bought i tfrom t h e authoress Gaskine - Miss Gaskine - and her l ibrary up there wasabsolutely beautiful. I t was a beauti ful home. I t was, oh, i t was a beautifulhome, Morden was.

You said you didn't have anything to do at Anna Creek. Did you start working onother stations?

Oh yes, I ended up being cook and housekeeper and gardener and everythingwhen things - —. During the Depression - things altered a lot . They used tohave a bookkeeper, cook, gardener and every - - -. A t Mount Murchison I hadto cook. [But at Anna Creek there was this] married couple - the wife used todo the housework inside and her husband did the cooking, and they had thegardener and they had the bookkeeper. I couldn't do any gardening. I had al i t t l e b i t o f a stretch o f gardening about as big as what's out the f ront there,and i t used to worry me not doing anything.

The people before Bi l l took over that place was the name of Richards, andhis w i f e was a very sick woman, and she had t o have a housemaid and thehousemaid used to have to take her boots off , put her boots on, you know, andthings l ike that. And she was a Scotch g i r l and she wanted to do that to me. Isaid, 'No you don't,' I said, ' I can put my own boots on'. Anyhow we got r id ofher i n t he end because she was no t necessary. I wasn't incapable o f doinganything. And the bookkeeper used to have a - - -.

I used to have a fr iend come out to Mount Murchison from Wilcannia, andshe used t o put paint on her l ips. O f course I got the same idea. The book-keeper said to me one day, 'Wipe that s tu f f o f f your lips. You don't need i t ' .


So I had to wipe i t o ff . A l ice Morgan her name was, and she came out to staythere fo r the weekend, and he burnt the dinner - the cook burnt the wholedinner. He was a Swede. He wanted to go on a bender, so he burnt the meat,he burnt the pudding, and we ended up on bread and jam.

When Bill was working in those early years that you were together, was there notmuch for you to do?

No, not much at all.

How would you spend your days?

Mostly crocheting. I used to do a lot o f crochet work and a lot of reading. Mysisters have got some of my crochet work. I haven't got any of i t . My sistershave got i t . My young sister's got a big one and 'Din's got one, and the others Iused to raff le fo r di fferent things. I haven't got any of i t - not at all.

What sort o f quarters would you be living in , say, a t Anna Creek and MountMurchison?

Oh, i n what they ca l l Government House. They used t o ca l l i t GovernmentHouse.

The big one.

Yes, Government House they used to call i t .

So it wasn't until the Depression years that you started doing cooking and so on.

That's r ight . I n '31. See, B i l l - - -. I don't how i t come about but we camedown f o r holidays and things had got worse and B i l l was out o f work. And Iwent up t o Kid man's off ice mysel f and I to ld him how things were. Oh, theywere very sorry. 'Oh, we didn't know things were l ike that . ' Mr Bird, he wasthe top man in the off ice, he said, 'Mrs Plush, I didn't know things were l ikethat.' He said, 'How are you o f f fo r money and how are you o f f for clothing?''Oh,' I said, 'my husband wants new boots' - I got a pair o f boots, and he gaveme a cheque fo r some money. 'Now, ' he said, 'go home,' he said, 'and don'tworry. Everything'11 be al l r ight'. And about a for tn ight af ter we got a noticeto say we were going to Diamantina Lakes - put there to work - and Bi l l wasput o n t h e j o b as head stockman a t Diamant ina Lakes. M r Hooper wasmanager. He l ived a t Glenelg - he was the manager. We went back w i th M rHooper. Well, when we got to Gawler - - -. I don't know whether I'm going toofar ahead.

Oh no.


Anyhow, when we got to Gawler, Bi l l said to Mr Hooper, he said, ' I th ink thiscar wants seeing to'. He said, d o n ' t th ink i t ' l l get to Birdsville'. See, we hadto go t o Birdsvil le f i r s t . M r Hooper said, 'Oh no, the car's a l l r ight . There'snothing much wrong wi th the car'. Anyhow, he wouldn't go in the garage. Bi l lsaid to me, he said, 'We're going to have a mishap before we get there'. Abouttwenty f i ve mi les from Birdsvi l le we had a breakdown. The car wouldn't go,and i t was January and a hundred and sixteen [degrees]. We only had a coupleof canvas bags fu l l o f water. In fac t they're s t i l l out in the shed there, thecanvas bags that B i l l had on his - - -. Anyhow, M r Hooper put me under thecar to stop out of the heat and Bi l l walked. He took the bags - took the water- and he didn't remember getting to Birdsville in that heat. When he got there- the worst th ing they could do, they gave him brandy. That was the worstthing they could have done. He went out to i t . Anyhow we were there tha tnight, Mr Hooper and I, w i th the car, and next day Ron Wishell came out andpicked u s u p w i t h t h e t r u c k . T h a t w a s a n experience. I ' v e h a d someexperiences. That was one of them. (laughs)

In the early days, when you first went up to live with Bill, how would you mainlytravel about in those times?

Well, we bought a car - th i r t y s ix pound - f rom Bennett & Fisher. [break inrecording]

You were saying you bought a car.

Yes.

Was that when you were up at Anna Creek?

No, tha t was when we come back from Diamantina Lakes for our holidays webought the car. I've s t i l l got the photo of i t here. We bought i t o f f Bennett &Fisher - they had cars then. That was th i r t y six pounds. You wouldn't buy onefor th i r ty six pound now.

No, certainly wouldn't.

I t was one of the old style Fords.

From what we were saying when we were talking together the other week, thereseemed to be a period of some years at the end of the 1920s when you were livingdown in Adelaide. Would that be right?

What period would that be?

Say before you went up to the Diamantina Lakes.


Yes, I l ived w i th my sister a t Penny Street - we l ived there. And we musthave come down from - - -. Where did we come f rom then? Oh, we went toRenmark - where haven't I been? Renmark - to a station in Renmark - andBill was working on that station for Anderson, a man named Mr Anderson. ButBill was - he drank a bit, and he gambled. We had money saved up and he wentto the bank and he drew that money out and he went into Renmark, le f t me atthe station, and he didn't come back that night. Mr Anderson said, 'I hope hedoesn't come back'. He said, 'You've got a l i f e here as long as you live'. Hesaid, 'I hope he doesn't come back,' but he came back the next day. So, we justcarried o n f r o m there . A n d t hen I t h i n k tha t ' s when w e came down t oAdelaide to l ive with my sister for a while, and that was in the early thirt ies.

END OF TAPE 2 SIDE B: TA P E 3 SIDE A

You were mentioning before about the little girl who you lost, Betty. Can you tellme, where was she born?

Morden. She was born on Morden. See, Bi l l , when he went to the war, he wastold that he'd never be a father. Well that was a mistake, because when thatbaby was born, she was the image o f B i l l - ears and everything. Lovely babyshe was. And he was thr i l led to bits, but the circumstances, you see. I used tohave to go down and help draf t the sheep, and this morning I went down. Usedto get out of bed and into bed without the bed being made, I'd be that t i red bythe end o f the day. Five o'clock down a t the yard, help draf t ing sheep. Andthis night, we had engaged the doctor from Broken Hi l l and the Sister to comeout for Betty's birth.

But anyhow, this day was on the Saturday. I went down and I helped draf tthe sheep. I used to have to drive the buggy wi th two horses in i t and pick upthe stray lambs and put them in the buggy, and my feet 'd be up here by thet ime I'd finished picking up the lambs and drive them t o the yard. Anyhow, Igot t o the yard and they were busy draf t ing sheep, then they put me on thegate. I had t o go on the gate - gate this way and a gate tha t way - and onesheep wouldn't go through and B i l l got a st ick. I said, ' I f you h i t tha t sheep,I'm leaving the gate'. He dropped the st ick - he knew bet ter than to h i t thesheep. Anyhow I just got hold o f the sheep and turned i t round and i t went oninto the other yard. I got home. I was very t i red. Must've been about eighto'clock a t night. We had the room - bui l t on top of the house, l ike a sunroomright on top of the house, and there was about ten steps up.

By the t ime I got up that ten steps the water broke and Bi l l had to get medown again and p u t m e i n t h e bed i n t h e room - bedroom, b ig bedroom,


beautiful home i t was. But we couldn't get the doctor. The baby came and Bi l lhad to cut the cord, t i e the cord. He said, 'It 's a boy. No, i t 's a girl ' . A f t e r hehad t o bathe i t and everything. He was qui te thr i l led. She was a beauti fulbaby. And the doctor and the sister came on the Monday and everything wasdone. But the af terbir th wouldn't come away, so I had to drink a whole cupfulof castor o i l to bring the af terbir th away. That brought i t away and I got a l lright. I think I've been through enough.

So anyhow, the sister said, 'What are you naming her?' I said 'Betty' . 'Oh,'she said, 'cal l her Hope'. She said 'That's the October name' - for October isHope - so i t was Betty Hope she was christened.

What were the circumstances of her death.

[queries question]

What the circumstances of Betty's death?

Well, we were in Wilcannia - he'd been shifted then to Mount Murchison fromMorden - and B i l l was a great racing man. He was a jockey before he everwent back, and he used t o r ide in al l the races - the bush races, and a l l thatsort o f thing, you know. And he wanted to go to this meeting at Wilcannia andI didn't want to go - I didn't want to leave Bet ty. He said, 'Yes, I want you tocome'. So I l e f t Be t t y i n the charge o f t w o gi r ls . The owner's daughter -Faulkner, her name was Faulkner - and another g i r l - I can't think of the othergirl's name - and I l e f t the bott le, the baby's bottle, and I said, 'Now, give herthat bo t t le a t a cer ta in t ime, ' bu t I said, 'See tha t i t ' s clean and tha t i t ' swarm'. 'Oh, w e w i l l . ' Apparent ly she go t - - -. There was something wrongwith i t . I don't know what happened, but she got peritonit is - poisoned. Whenwe were leaving on the - - -.

We took her straight to hospital on the Monday and I stopped there wi thher. Then B i l l had t o go back to the station. So he wouldn't leave me in thehospital and he wouldn't leave Bet ty i n the hospital. He said, 'No, ' he said,'she's al l r i gh t now'. B u t against t he doctor's orders he took Be t t y ou t o fhospital, and hal f way home to Mount Murchison i t started to rain and we hadno water on the bus and we had to drink the water out of the — . You know,where the rain swamped the road - we had to drink that water. We were heldup there al l night - we couldn't move. Of course when we got home to MountMurchison she had a relapse. Rushed her back to hospital but i t was too late,so that was that.

ATB/15/129-615 M r s Rhoda PLUSH 44.'S.A. SPEAKS' 8 6 1 5

I always blame Bi l l f o r that . He should never have taken her. The doctorsaid she should never have been taken out of hospital. He should have come toMount Murchison on h is own, b u t no, he wouldn't leave me behind and hewouldn't leave the baby behind, so that 's how that happened. A tragedy thatwas. She had a relapse and she didn' t ge t over t h e relapse. She was ninemonths old too. Well, that's when I collapsed altogether and went to stay with[Chandlers] and that's when the doctor gave me up too - said that he couldn'tdo any more. Well, that was a lot to go through, wasn't i t?

My word yes.

I got al l r ight though. I'm st i l l here to te l l the tale.

I did want to ask you also - - -. We were talking the other day about how youdivorced your first husband.

Yes.

Was that some time during the 1920s?

Oh yes i t must have been. Oh yes.

Was it long after you left him to go to Anna Creek?

I t couldn't have been very long af ter because he married again. Couldn't havebeen very long af ter. Oh, I just forget the year. It's al l very fa int to me now.

Can you remember how you arranged it?

Oh, we came down, I know. We came down and arranged i t . But i t isn't l ikegetting divorced now. You only just had to take a room. That's all we did. Wetook a room - there was nothing happened. Took a room and that 's al l therewas to i t . Took a room a t West Palace - that's where we were, and that's al lthat happened.

So you nominated yourself to be the one that they would have evidence against?

Yes. Oh yes, I l e f t him. I t was my faul t , i t wasn't his. But i t was absolutelynothing. The man jus t — . The lawyer just came in and said, 'Oh, i t ' s a l lright,' that's al l i t was.

So the lawyer visited you in your room.

Yes, that's al l i t was. Nothing sordid about i t or anything l ike that.

A civilised arrangement.

Yes i t was, a c iv i l ised arrangement. I t was jus t a l l arranged. There wasnothing in the papers about i t or anything l ike there is nowadays.


Did you have to attend Court?

No. No, nothing l ike that a t al l . Just as I said, just the room and that was i t .No, d idn ' t a t tend Cour t a t a l l , nothing l i ke tha t . I don't th ink I could havegone through with i t i f i t had been like that. No, i t was very easy.

You didn't marry Bill straight away.

No.

Was it quite some time?

Quite some t i m e . I t was about twen ty f i v e years ago. We were marr iedtwenty f i ve years and yet l ived together fo r nearly sixty years. But I was onto him a l l the t ime. Every t ime we came down for a holiday, 'Now we must goand seal things up'. But I don't know. We got down, the t ime would go. You'dgo here, you'd go there, then you'd have t o go back again, and i t neverhappened. So, oh, '68 I said to him, 'Well i f i t isn't going to happen, I'm going'.When my sister lost her husband - that was in '61 - I kept the home going forher. She had nothing a t al l . He was another man that l ived from day to day,didn't believe in owning a home or anything l ike that . She had nothing, poorold 'Din, so I used to send her twenty pound a month af ter Frank died, to keepthe home going. So I kept that going for her unt i l she was able to get over theshock of him being killed.

Then I said to Bill, 'Well, i f you're not going to do the r ight thing, I'm notstaying wi th you any longer'. And, 'Oh,' he said, 'yes, wel l we'l l go into Long-reach and get married'. I said, 'No we won't . ' I said 'We'll get married downSouth Austral ia or not at all'. So I did leave him. I le f t him. He begged me notto. He said, 'We'l l go this and go there, and get married'. I said, 'No'. I said,'Make up you mind,' I said, ' i t 's one thing or the other'. So I came down to mysister here. She l ived in Mead Street then, and I was down twelve months andhe came down af ter me. 'Well, ' he said, 'are we going to get married?' I said,'Are you going t o ge t married?' He said, 'Oh, sure,' so we went out and gotmarried i n the Registry Off ice, otherwise I would never have gone back t ohim again. Bu t I s t i l l loved h im. I loved h im ve ry much, bu t that 's how i thappened. I was determined that he would do the r ight thing or not a t al l , sohe did the right thing. That's how i t happened.

Had it worried you much in the early years that you weren't married?

Yes i t used t o worry me. I t used to worry me, bu t there was nothing I - - -.See, w e were o u t there. Bush t w o years [a t t he t ime ] and no neighbours -twenty f i v e mi les , t h i r t y mi les away f rom the neighbours. You couldn't do


anything. I go t jack o f i t . Anyhow, I said tha t something would have t o bedone, and I wasn't going to l ive l ike that any longer, because of my children.

Were there other unconventional relationships that you knew of up North?

No, nothing at al l l ike that.

People often say that a lot of people who go and live up North are escaping fromone thing or another down in the cities.

Oh well, we had men working on the station that had deserted and that sort ofthing. Oh yes, we had that . Two men came there one day, two wel l -dressedmen they were t oo - they were having t rouble w i th the i r car. This was a tPalparara. They said could they stay there unti l they got a part from Winton -you know, to come out, to put i t in their car so they could get going again. SoBil l said, 'Oh yes'. They were wel l -dressed and well-spoken, and B i l l said, ohyes, they could stay there. But he put them in the men's quarters. He didn'tput them in Government House, he put them in the men's quarters.

Anyhow t h e y were there f o r th ree o r f o u r days, t h e pa r t came f r omWinton and they put i t in the car. When they were leaving they came up. Oneman had a beautiful t ray - cu t glass t ray - and a si lver teapot. They said tome, 'Would you please accept these for your being so good to us?' But I said, 'Idon't want those,' and they said, 'Oh, we l l - - -. ' One man said, 'This man'sbeen engaged to be married but i t 's broken o f f , ' he said, 'and this is some ofthe presents'. I took i t - you know, as the t ru th . So I said, 'Oh wel l , i f youdon't want them. I f that's the case,' I said, 'I ' l l have them'. So, there's the trayin there - in my bedroom - and the silver teapot's st i l l out there.

Anyhow, we used to have a galah session on the radio - foot radio - everyeleven o'clock, and Mrs Donalan was the f i rst one at Davenport Downs that Pdhave a t a l k t o . Then we'd go round about Monkira Stat ion and Currawi l laStation. About four or f ive o f us'd have this galah session, we used to cal l i t .And when I was speaking to Mrs Donalan, I said, 'Did the gentlemen arrive allright?' She said, 'Oh yes, they arr ived a l l r i gh t , bu t , ' she said, ' there's apleasant surprise f o r them'. I said, 'How do you mean? What do you mean,Ethel?' Wel l , ' she said, 'the Police are here'. I said, 'What?' She said, the 'ThePolice were waiting for them'. A l l those things were stolen. Would you believeit , and they're s t i l l there. They didn't come and get them. And they ended upin Gladstone Gaol and they were two well-dressed - - -. I t just goes to show.

All sorts.

All sorts to make a world. Yes. Now, how am I going?


Well, I think we've done very well. I've thoroughly enjoyed talking with you aboutthat time. It sounds to me as if you enjoyed life up North.

1 did enjoy i t , every minute o f i t . There's other things happened too, but wehaven't got t ime now. Well, you haven't got t ime anyhow.

Well I think we've covered a lot of ground.

As long as you're satisfied.

Oh, I certainly am. Thanks very much for talking with me.

state 6ra1y sf south australia j. d. …z • y i 4 state government library of south australia...

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