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Porcupine TreeShadows and lightby Anil PrasadCopyright 2004 Anil Prasad. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution, No Derivatives license.

Porcupine Tree founder Steven Wilson isnt content with the status quo that tells us to shelve thedarker sides of our personas in the wake of recent tragedies that continue to grip the world. His

approach is to embrace the melancholic as catharsis and use it to propel his artistry forward. That

thinking permeates In Absentia,the British acts latest studio album. Its songs explore the psyche of

societys fringe elements, situated within thunderous metal riffs, complex melodies, multi-part vocalharmonies and ambient atmospheres. Its the most direct and in-your-face record the group has

released to date.

Porcupine Tree began in 1987 as a home studio solo project for Wilson, a multi-instrumentalist,

composer, vocalist and producer. Over the course of the next 17 years, Wilson transformed it into a

renowned, full-fledged group that also features ex-Japan keyboardist Richard Barbieri, bassist Colin

Edwin and drummer Gavin Harrison. The band went on to release a plethora of albums, EPs and

singles that explore its psychedelic, experimental and progressive leanings both independently and

through smaller labels such as Snapper and Delerium. A worldwide cult following latched on to the

group, causing major labels to take notice. In 2001, the band signed a deal with Lava, a subsidiary

of Atlantic Records.

Since In Absentiasrelease through Lava in 2002, the bands fan base has grown exponentially.

Many high-profile musicians have also taken notice, including King Crimson guitarist and vocalist

Adrian Belew, a contributor to the forthcoming Porcupine Tree record.

Porcupine tree represents an interesting combination of several things that I like, said Belew. Its
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a little bit like King Crimson, Tool and Trent Reznor, English-style, but not the same as any of those

things. Steven has a real strong vision of what he wants to do and it has a certain kind of power

thats really great. His voice is also very fetching. Its unique and fits in very well with what hes

doing. Musically, what I really like about the band is they do a lot of odd time things that you dont

notice so muchtheyre just in there. They fit together so well that they slide right past your ears,

which is something some bands never attempt and when they do, its very obvious. Porcupine Tree

also has really good players and the songs are really cool. I like everything about it. Its just good

stuff, custom-made for me. Steven has given me free reign and just guided me here and there and

said things like Play something strangely beautiful in this 17/8 area. Its been a lot of fun.

In addition to Porcupine Tree, Wilson is well-known for No-Man, his ongoing collaboration with

singer-songwriter Tim Bowness. The duo explores the perimeters of the rock and pop world,

infusing them with far-flung influences including neo-classical, jazz, dub and techno. However, No-

Man's latest release, 2003s Together Were Stranger,is its most stripped-down yet. Its a quiet,

meditative record that occupies the other end of In Absentiassonic spectrum.

Wilson is also involved in a myriad of other collaborations. Blackfield, another duo Wilson formed

with Israeli musician Aviv Geffen, has just released its self-titled debut record. Its an album of

concise, elegant, melodic rock that should hold a lot of interest for Porcupine Tree fans. Other

projects Wilson has in the works include ongoing recording for Bass Communion, his ambient,

electronic solo persona, and IEM [Incredible Expanding Mindfuck], his Krautrock and cosmic jazz

endeavor. If all of this wasnt enough, Wilson continues to serve as a producer for the likes of AnjaGarbarek, Opeth and Theo Travis.

Innerviewsbegan its conversation with Wilson by exploring Porcupine Trees move to the major

label ranks.

Great things were anticipated for the U.S. release of In Absentia.Did it work out to your

satisfaction?

I dont think you can anticipate or predict anything in America. I dont know if I had any particular

expectations either. Im in my 30s now and have been in the music industry on and off for 13 years,

so Im kind of cynical, but in a healthy way. Some might call that being realistic. You take each thing

as it comes and expect nothing. Its with that attitude that we entered into the major label scenario

in America. I suspect if we had been 18-year-old kids we would have expected to have sold a

million copies and be on top of the world. However, because weve all been around the block a few

times, we expected things would improve, but didnt really know how. Things have definitely

stepped up. The record has sold in the region of three times what any previous record has. Its

done about 100,000 copies worldwide which is a lot more than weve done in the past. In terms of

North America, weve gone literally from selling 2,000 copies to 45,000, so thats a big step up. In

Europe, sales have improved as well, but less so, because its been our primary touring and sales

market previously. In terms of percentages, weve increased massively in America and significantly

elsewhere.

At the same time, theres a lot of resistance from certain parts of the industry that is stopping us

from getting to a much higher level. Im talking about radio and the media in America. Were justbeginning to make an impact on radio. Blackest Eyes got added to various major rock stations.

We dont really know how these things work. Its been a real learning experience. Its funny, in

Europe, if a record hasnt been a hit by the end of the first month of release, you can basically

move on. It seems in America, you can still be working a record almost a year later. So, things are

progressing and things are beginning to happen. With this record, its been a war of attrition for us.

A few years ago, you told me you had little interest in working with a major label. What

changed your mind?

Finding the right label. To put this in perspective, every time we demoed a new record, pretty much

from Signifyin 1995 and beyond, we would do the rounds of labelsmajors and independents

alike. There was always a flurry of interest, particularly around the time of Lightbulb Sun.The band

had a proven underground following and sales and we were being recognized as a strong live act.

So, there was interest, but there was always a sense that the labels didnt get it or werent

expecting much of the band. So, what we really felt was if there was ever a scenario in which the

band signs to a major label, it would have to be a grade one record deal in which they were really

putting their money where their mouth was and giving us the resources to make a record that was


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expected to sell, with ambitions to

hit a million copies, otherwise,

there didnt seem to be any point.

There was no point in signing to a

label where we were the small fish

in the big pond. With Porcupine

Tree, every label weve worked

with has made us a priority act.

We couldnt envisage a situationin which wed be a major priority

for a major label until we met

Andy Karp [Senior Vice President

of A&R] at Lava Records. He not

only got the band and wanted to

sign us, but he was a fan, actively

buying our records since the

mid-90s. He totally got it and was

prepared to really give us the

finances and marketing resources that major labels are capable of giving. He was committed to

backing the band over a longer period of time. Thats really important. We have a long-term dealwith Lava. Theyre not going to drop us because In Absentiadidnt sell a million records. In other

words, they recognize that were an album band and not necessarily a singles band.

When you and I spoke last time, I arrived at the conclusion that there was no major label that was

suitable for Porcupine Tree and Im happy to have been proven wrong. I think the other thing is the

climate changed between 2000 and 2002. There was a significant change in the way major labels

think. I think the downloading thing made them reconsider the short-term philosophy theyd pursued

for the previous 20 years. In other words, you sign a band, have one big hit album and single and

move on. The success of bands like Radiohead and Tool having number one albums without

releasing singles has definitely shifted the spotlight slightly in the direction of a band like Porcupine

Tree. Lava wasnt the only label that wanted to sign us. There was competition going on in the

American major label scene which was extraordinary and surreal for me at the age of 34. To getthat kind of interest was very strange.

Your last experience with a major label was when Sony distributed No-Man in America. How

is working with Lava different?

Yes, we were signed to Sony through One Little Indian, even though One Little Indian was still very

much an independent label. At the time, they werent a company of the magnitude of the Time-

Warner organization. Their financial resources were very limited in that they had to justify every

penny spent. During the time No-Man was on One Little Indian, Tim [Bowness] and I traveled to

America to meet the people from Sony around the time they were issuing the Loveblows and

Lovecriesalbum. The difference couldnt be more dramatic. Its down to being a small fish in a big

pond as opposed to being a big fish in a big pond. I cant emphasize enough the difference in beinga priority act as opposed to just being one of a group of small acts that have been picked up in a

job lot from an independent U.K. label. We had a guy who was supposed to be our contact at Sony,

but we would never have got to meet the head of the label to discuss A&R, marketing or press

policy. Having a good relationship with the various parts of a major label makes a major difference

when you feel they are behind you. Lava are motivated and genuinely liked In Absentia.In contrast,

there was probably one guy at Sony who even heard the No-Man record when it was released and

that was very depressing. It was one of the reasons I got put off the major label thing for the next

10 years.

Are you surprised that in America, a large percentage of Porcupine Trees audience has

turned out to be metal fans?

We seem to be picking up a lot more fans from that area, yeah. I think the fact that I collaboratedwith Opeth made a difference in that respect. It doesnt surprise me because the band has, over

the past three or four records, moved closer to a harder and heavier sound. I feel every record is a

step forward and an evolution from the previous record in some respect. The major innovation on

In Absentiais the fact that theres some real metal and riffing aspects to it. So, it doesnt surprise


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me that metal fans are interested in America, a place where rock music has never really gone

away. In England, rock music comes back for a time every 10 years and then disappears again.

The last time it was fashionable was the Nirvana era and its been wall-to-wall DJ culture since. In

America, like in Germany, there is always an appetite for good quality rock music.

I was at the San Francisco show last year which was full of death-metal fans in goth outfits

and make-up. I felt like an alien pod person amongst them.

I love a lot of the music they listen to. Ive always loved metal music, particularly extreme metal

music in the last few years, so I dont feel like an alien pod person amongst them. [laughs] There

are a lot more younger people, but the old fans are coming too. Maybe they arent as vocal in San

Francisco as the young kids. What I find is if you have an audience thats 20 percent metal kids and

80 percent music-loving, slightly older people, you can guarantee the 20 percent of metal kids will

make it seem like theyre the only people there. [laughs] They tend to come to the front and make

the most noise. We did shows on the last tour where we really felt like we were playing only to metal

kids, but then you get to the end of the show and meet some of the fans and it appears to be more

of a mixture. I think the older Porcupine Tree fans that come from the mid-90s tend to be quietly

sitting on the sides or in the balcony.

In Absentiadealt with subject matter that explored your curiosity with the criminal, fringe

elements of society. Perhaps that attracted the metal fans as well.

A lot of people ask me about the serial killer aspect of In Absentiaand its there. Ive admitted it, butI always stress that Im not so interested in what these people do. What they do and have done is

really the stock-in-trade of death metal, heavy metal and satanic bands. The one thing I felt had not

been explored was what creates these kinds of people. What happens in their youth or

adolescence that creates people unable to empathize and related to other people in the way the

rest of us do?

Futile, one of the tracks from

the forthcoming albums

sessions, recently appeared on

a promo sampler specifically

aimed at metal radio. Tell me

why you took that approach so

far ahead of the new albums

release.

What happened is we started

working on material for the next

record and one of the songs that

came out was a very heavy piece

called Futile. Its probably the

heaviest thing weve ever done. At

the same time, Lava wanted to

target metal radio. One of theproblems Lava has with Porcupine

Tree has nothing to do with the quality of the music or appeal of the music. Rather, its the

eclecticism of the music. How do you market a band that one minute is playing metal, the next

minute is playing trip-hop and the next minute is playing progressive rock? One of the solutions

weve come up with is to put together samplers that target different aspects of the bands sound to

different radio formats. In America, you have this ridiculous radio format thing in which only certain

kinds of music will be played on certain types of radio stations.

So, Lava have put together a sampler that focuses on the bands metal side for metal radio. I dont

have a problem with this because at the end of the day, if it makes someone go out and buy the

record, hopefully theyll sit down and listen and think maybe its not exactly what theyre expecting,

but get the whole picture of it and still like it. In terms of Futile, Andy Karp heard it and said theyreputting together this metal radio sampler and that it would be a great track to include on it,

especially since its exclusive and not commercially available. He thought it might get the radio

stations even more behind it. So, we finished it way ahead of the next albums other material, put it

on and it seemed to do pretty well. It was the number two rock song in New York at one point.


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Whatever helps, you know?

I understand the upcoming album is based on a film script youve co-written.

Yeah, its going in a very different lyrical direction to In Absentia.I wrote the film script with myfriend in 2002. Hes a film director from America named Mike Bennion. Hes one of my best friends

and makes commercials and short films. One thing hed never done is make a full-length feature,

so in 2001, we set out to try and write something he would want to film. Thats just the first stage.

Next, you have to shop it around and try to find the financing to shoot it. I thought it was a good

experience for me, because its a different artistic discipline to sit down and write a film script and

try to create a narrative that works in that medium. We spent two years working on it. I would

describe it as a very surreal ghost story. So far, the people that have read it have been impressed. I

felt like if there was an album to go with it, there would be more of a chance of the movie getting

made. So, Ive started to base the new songs on it. I dont want to create a concept album to tell the

story of the film, but I felt there were certain episodes in the movie that lent themselves to being

worked into songs as well. The script is called Lullabye.The album may or may not be called that.

Musically speaking, how does the album compare to In Absentia?

The album is more cohesive I would say. The metal element has now become more a part of the

fabric of the music and the extremes of In Absentiawill be more united on the new record. I'm very

happy with the new music. I think it is again an improvement and advance on all our previous work.

There are also some much longer pieces this time, as well as some very strong shorter piecesperhaps its that Aviv Geffen influence rubbing off on me. This time we have way too much good

music for a single record and I think it's going to be tough to leave songs off.

You once said you find it easier to write negative songs than ones that deal with

happiness. Is that a bona fide dilemma or simply a preference?

Its just what comes naturally for me. People ask me all the time Your songs are so melancholic

and depressing. Is that what youre like as a person? The answer is no. Im not really like that at

all. Because the songs are cathartic, they get the negative aspects out of my personality. Ivealways felt drawn to more negative and melancholic music since I was a kid. Ive asked myself why

that should be. If you come back to the metal world, you find so much of that music is very black

and deals with the dark side of life, yet kids are so drawn to it. I think thats because melancholicmusic is very uplifting. Why? Because its a shared experience. In contrast, I find music that is

artificially happy or very joyful to be very depressing. [laughs] I cant relate to that music. Life, most

of the time, isnt a particularly joyful thing. Thats not to say its a very depressing thing either.

Ninety-five percent of life is simply existing. Its the rare moments of joy or negativity that throw

everything else into relief. Those are the things that almost make life worth living. So, Ive always

found melancholic and dark music to be the most moving and beautiful because it makes you

aware there are other people in the world who have shared experiences. I cant find any other

rational explanation for that. Most people are drawn to sad music. Ballads are the all time classics

for some people, whether its Stairway to Heaven or Im Not in Love. Its always the ballads that

last for decades and decades and stand the test of time.

The perception is, for all intents and purposes, Porcupine Tree remains a solo project foryou in that your vision and direction drive it.

Yes, but that doesnt necessarily mean its a solo project. I think theres this myth that in some

respects the band is just me and whoever I choose to work with. If you look at every major band in

history, you can say in almost every case that theres someone who filled my role, whether it was

Pete Townsend in The Who, Peter Hammil in Van Der Graaf Generator or Robert Fripp in King

Crimson. You wouldnt say those bands were their solo projects. Yes, I write most of the material for

the band and produce the records, so in that respect, I consider myself to be the captain of the

ship. Im making sure its steering in the direction I want it to steer in, but in all other respects, the

band is very much a democracy. We all make decisions about what goes on the record, how it

sounds and where and when we go on tour. I dont have that situation with any of my other

projects, except for No-Man, where Tim is my partner. For me, a true solo project is one in which

Im truly only answerable to myself and that only holds for Bass Communion and IEM. I have to tell

you, there are many things Porcupine Tree have done, recorded and released that I personally

would have done differently had it been my solo project. Thats what part of being in a band is

about. Sometimes you make compromises for the good of the band. You get outvoted on things


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and sometimes you realize you were outvoted for a good reason and other times you feel that if

theyd taken your opinion, it would have been better.

So, you dont have ultimate

veto power?

If I did, theyd all leave. [laughs]

Its as simple as that. If I simply

said No, were not going to do it

that way. Were going to do it my

way and I dont care what you

say I dont think they would be in

the band. You have to accept

sometimes that you cant do what

you want all the time. There are

other opinions and sometimes

they are valid. So, I dont have

final veto, except perhaps when

were in the studio and producing

the record. If somebody comes up

with an idea or sound that I dont think works, I would ultimately reach some compromise. But if I

felt it really didnt work, I probably would have ultimate veto there. I tell you, Ive written songs thathave been voted off the records that I really felt were some of the best Ive written. There are a

couple of songs that I wrote for In Absentiawhich for whatever reason the band didnt like, so they

didnt get recorded. If it was a solo project, that would never have happened. I accept those things

because there are a lot of positive things about having a democratic process.

A DVD-Audio version of In Absentiawas just released. Describe the opportunity remixing

the album in 5.1 provided and your take on the emerging high-resolution audio realm.

I was less interested in the higher resolutionas it's really only a minority of people than can

actually hear the difference or have a system that is capable of revealing the differencethan I was

in the opportunity to mix into surround. It's a medium perfectly suited to Porcupine Tree's music,

which has many layers to the production that stereo really cannot do justice to. For example, beingable to position the multi-part harmony vocals and some of Richard Barbieri's electronic sounds and

textures all around the listener means that the music really does open out in a three-dimensional

way. Once you hear something in 5.1, it really does render the stereo mix rather flat and

uninspiring, especially with a band like Porcupine Tree. I'm happy to say that the 5.1 mix of In

Absentiadoes seem to be becoming a benchmark of sorts for surround DVD-Audio, as I hoped it

would. We put a tremendous amount of time and effort into getting it right, whereas most surround

mixes are done as an afterthought without even the artist being involved much of the time.

Youve compared the process of making Peter Gabriels Upto In Absentiaas being the

difference between an overlabored approach and production trickery versus sheer hard

work and determination. Was there anything you could identify with in terms of Gabriels

difficulty in birthing his record?

Not really, no. I cant relate to that way of working because Ive never taken more than a year to

make a record. You might be quite entitled to say Ive never made a record as good as Peter

Gabriel though. [laughs] I dont feel thats true. I think In Absentiais a superior record to Up.Im

usually very objective about these things in the sense that Im quite happy to admit that some of my

past records are not as good as they should have been and that there were lots of records out at

the same time that were much better. But Ive heard Upand I feel its an overworked, overwrought

record that doesnt have a center. It does not hang together. The songs have been swamped in

complexities of arrangement and there is no perspective. It just feels like he wrote the songs and

spent so long working on them that the songs, which are ultimately the most important thing, got

somehow lost, ignored and forgotten about. I think thats a problem when you spend 10 years

making a record or however long it took.

When you have a song, you have to create a sound world for it and give it the best possible

context. When it becomes the other way around, in which the song is secondary to the production

and the process of recording itself, I think you lose a lot of your artistry and I feel thats true with Up.


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With In Absentia,we had the songs and we went in and recorded them very quickly and very well, I

think. We didnt lose perspective on what we were trying to do. We didnt lose the shape of the

album, the power of the hooks and the songs themselves.Upjust collapses under the weight of its

own overwroughted-ness.

Do you ever encounter moments of total blockage or indecision?

I have periods when I cant come up with any new material at all. Everyone does. I feel like Okay,

thats it, Ive written my last song. I cant find anything new. I cant write anything without repeating

whats gone before. I always encounter that sometime during every album cycle. Theres always a

period when I feel Ive got nothing left to say. Every time so far, touch wood, Ive proved myself

wrong. Ive been able to wait it out or tap into some new inspiration thats restarted the creative

process. Yes, Ive been in a situation where there are certain songs or recordings in the studio that

no matter what you do with them, they dont seem to sound right. You find yourself going in a

vicious circle of scrapping what youve done before and starting again with a completely different

approach. Then you start thinking Well, maybe we can use a bit of that arrangement, a bit of this

arrangement and a bit of another arrangement. Then you start working in patchwork form. When

that situation arises, it can be a trap. In my experience, you kind of say Its not working. None of

these things are quite right and you scrap it and move on.

Ive got friends that have been working on the same songs literally for 15 years. What happens is

they wrote these songs 15 years ago and have spent months and months trying to find the ultimatearrangement for them. By the time theyre done, the whole music scene has moved on and theres

some new fashion or sound, so their songs are out of date. They then try to recreate the songs in a

more contemporary context and theyre always behind. So, five years ago, theyd be trying to

recreate songs again in a trip-hop style. Again, the problem with that is theyre missing the point of

the songs themselves in trying to make them contemporary.

I think there is one time No-Man fell into this trap. It was during the Wild Operaera in which we

were enamored with the trip-hop scene. We started writing, for the first time in our career since

Loveblows and Lovecries,in a generic way. We started to be influenced by what was happening

around us and that may or may not be a good thing. For No-Man, its a bad thing. I think its better

we exist outside of fashion and whats happening in the music scene. Of course, by the time Wild

Operacame out, the whole scene had passed and played itself out. I think thats the problem withpeople like Peter Gabriel who spend 10 years making a record with so many different things in

there. It just doesnt work. Maybe its just me. I dont know.

Youve served as a producer for

several artists. How would you assess

your effectiveness in that role?

I dont imagine I would ever be a good

producer for somebody who came to me

and said We have this band and want

you to make a hit record for them. But if

someone comes to me and says I wantto make an album. I like what you do and

I want you to come and do what you do,

that always seems to work. Thats what

Opeth and Anja [Garbarek] did. They just

wanted me to be myself and do what I do

anyway, which is come along and

respond to the music in the way I would

respond to my own songs. Typically, if

you want to be a proper producer, you

have to be able to work with all sorts of

artists from different genres and adapt

yourself to their sound and theirexpectations, as well as those of the

record company. Ive never done a project where Ive had to do that. I just work with people who

want me to do what I do anyway. So, in that respect, Im not as versatile as a full-time producer. I

only do things I really love anyway. I couldnt sustain a career as a producer. There arent that


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many bands I like. [laughs]

How do you look back at the making of Garbareks Smiling and Wavingrecord?

That was a very interesting experience for me. She was signed to BMG and at the time I wasintroduced to her, she had been working on the record for about 10 years with about 10 different

producers by that point. Shed been in the studio with some very big names, including Chris Hughes

and Mark Hollis from Talk Talk. It had never worked out. The reason is because no-one was letting

her be herself. No-one was letting her realize the material in the way she wanted. For me, being a

producer, thats exactly what you should be trying to do. You should let the artist bring out what

they want in the music and help them realize that in the purest form. BMG had been hooking her up

with all these producers, trying to turn her into a Bjork, or in the worst case, a Celine Dion, which is

absurd. She had a set of very quirky, very unique, semi-orchestral, semi-jazz pieces of pop music.

When I heard her demos, I said Look Anja, these are fantastic. What do you want me to do? She

said I just want someone to tell me that Im doing the right thing in the studio and to let me do it. In

a sense, all there was to do was help give her the confidence that shes going down the right road

and tell the people around her Let her do this. This is fantastic. In the process, she got away from

BMG and signed to Virgin, who were much more supportive. It became an easier process from then

on. Musically, I added various electronic treatments and some more strange things, but pretty

much, she had a very strong vision for that record. I think she felt part of the initial problem was she

was a girl and had all these guys around her telling her she should do this and that. To have herproducer say No, just fucking let her do what she wants to do is what she really needed. Im really

proud of that record. Its really unique and beautiful. I can take very little credit for it.

You were considering working with an orchestra a couple of years ago. What became of

that?

I got waylaid by my interest in metal. [laughs] I went in the opposite direction. I have cycles. I find

there are certain periods when Im interested in certain kinds of music. At this time, I am interested

in very aggressive music, notwithstanding the No-Man album, which is not very aggressive. If Im

left up to my own devices, Im leaning towards the more aggressive side of my musical personality.

I know there will come a time again when Im interested in textural music and working with quieter

musical forces.

Do you have the chops to direct an orchestra?

I dont have any musical training, so it would be a very intuitive thing. These days, its very easybecause of the technology available. Its possible to work out an orchestral arrangement in a purely

musical way by just picking out notes on a keyboard, playing them into a computer and then having

the computer print the music out for you. So, its not as if you have to know how to read or write

music or even be aware of how to score music for orchestras. I have friends who know how, so I

can go to them. In fact, on the last three albums, Ive worked with orchestral arrangers and Ive

been involved in that process as well. Theyve handled the scores and arrangements because they

know how to do that. I dont know how to do that and I dont really have any great interest to learn

either.

Are you entirely self-taught?

Pretty much. My parents sent me to piano lessons as a kid and I hated it. [laughs] I kind of forgot

about it all. I guess there was something left from that when I finally decided to be a musician. Ive

never been interested in being a musician. Ive been interested in making records. There is a verystrong distinction there. A musician is someone who will sit down and play their instrument out of

pleasure for hours at a time. I dont. I never, ever, ever pick up an instrument unless Im writing or

recording. I have no pleasure in playing the guitar or keyboards or anything. I have pleasure in

writing and recording music.

Can you read music?

No. I dont even know the names of the chords. My manager, who is a guitar player, constantly hasto tell me what chords Im playing. He finds it very amusing.

Tim once played me some very different versions of the No-Man tracks that ended up on

Together Were Stranger.I was surprised at how much more stripped down the final mixes

were.


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It was a very gradual, organic process. I kept taking things away and it kept sounding better. It just

seemed right to keep removing things. Theres something about the simplicity of the arrangements

and the space in them. Everything we tried to add seemed to detract from it. In the end, the mixes

were very minimal and very beautiful. Theres a kind of spirituality in the music that comes from the

simplicity. Its very strange for me because Im used to working on records where theres incredible

complexity in the production and lots of overdubbing and things to work into the mix. This was the

complete opposite for me.

There were a lot of people that played on the record that were probably horrified when they heard

the final mix. [laughs] We actually only used tiny amounts of what theyve done. I remember readingan interview with Mark Hollis at the time Talk Talk had released Laughing Stock.He was talking

about how they employed a huge, whole string section and worked with them for about a week.

After the string section had left, at huge expense, they kept only one soundthe sound of the cello

player dropping his bow on the wooden floor of the studio. [laughs] I always found that quite

amusing. Part of the process of making a record is in a sense, disappearing up blind alleys and

coming back, realizing youve spent the last two weeks on something youre now quite happy to just

hit the button and erase. You realize it doesnt add anything.

In a way, all of this comes back to Peter Gabriels situation. Sometimes, you have to have the

perspective to work on something for a long time and realize what you did in the first minutes of

conceiving the song still sounds better than what youve got after two months of working on it. Tim

and I found that very often wed come up with something with just guitar, voice and keyboardtexture and it would be almost instantaneous. In 10 minutes, wed have something we could work

on. Wed have various people come in and play on it. Wed collaborate on rhythmic ideas, song

ideas and solos. Then wed look at each other after a month and say You know what? It was better

when we did it in that first 10 minutes. Wed then erase everything wed been working on for the

previous month. You have to have the ability to press a button and erase all of that work, blood,

sweat and tears. Sometimes, its heartbreaking to do, but sometimes you feel cleansed and purified

by removing these unnecessary or superfluous things.

Are you ever hesitant to tell the people

who contributed to the work that

youve erased them from the final mix?

People have got kind of upset, yeah. Ive

never fallen out with anyone over it, but

there have been a few awkward

moments. At the end of the day, you have

to be true to the record and yourself, and

make the record the best way you can.

The guy that did all the rhythm stuff on

the record was completely erased from

the record. Ultimately, he still loves the

record and feels its the right decision too,

but of course, he put a lot of work andeffort into it. This happens all the time.

What inspired you to pursue the

Blackfield collaboration with Aviv

Geffen?

First and foremost, we became friends

when Porcupine Tree played shows in

Israel in 2000. Although we are very

different as people, we nevertheless share a lot of the same influences and a strong belief that

music really was richer in the late 60s and early 70ssomething that is the foundation of the

Blackfield production and sound. Also, I became very impressed with Aviv's ability to come up with

music that had class and quality within the three minute pop song formatsomething I have alwaysfound very hard to do myself. I have great admiration for anyone who can write convincingly and

make the three minute song format their own. So, I wanted to bring Aviv's songwriting talent to

people outside of his relatively small Hebrew-speaking audience.


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What is Avivs experience as a professional musician in Israel like given all of the political

mayhem afoot?

Aviv is certainly a very famous figure in Israel, loved by many, but also disliked by some as a

representative of Israeli counterculturewhatever that may be. His work is totally bound up with his

politics and criticism of the Israeli government and military. I have seen him abused and threatened

on the street a few times, but more often I have seen girls fainting in his presence and young

people wanting to thank him for his music and his inspiration. Aviv is considered to be one of the

most important and influential musicians in Israel.

You recently released a Web-only CD single featuring a cover of Alanis Morissettes Thank

You. What made you want to record that song?

I have this plan to release a series of cover versions in the style of good, old-fashioned seven-inch

singles where you basically cut two tracks very quickly in the studio and in a few weeks they are

available in a kind of generic, no-artwork, single-style, double-A-side package. I still love that whole

seven-inch single thing and the fact that you can cut two tracks and have it on the market so

quickly. With the cover version thing, each disc will have a cover version and the B-side, if you will,

will be one of my own compositions that somehow relates to the cover version. The cover versions I

want to do are all going to be songs that people would never, ever, ever imagine that Id want to do.

The reason I wanted to do that is that some bands do cover versions of songs you think are just so

obvious, that its pointlesslike Sepultura covering Black Sabbath or Oasis covering The Beatles.They do it so faithfully because they are so in awe of the originals.

As Ive proven with Tim and No-Man, we pick cover versions that we take to completely different

areas. Theres a group of songs I have in mind that people dont give enough attention to as great

songs. For whatever reason, the original artist recording them is not considered to be a great

songwriter. Alanis Morissette is one of those artists. She gets treated with disdain by the music

industry and a lot of music lovers, mainly because of the things shes said and done. She seems to

be slightly dismissed. I think the song Thank You is fantastic. I wanted to represent it in a

completely different context so people would reevaluate it. The whole series of cover version EPs

will feature songs that fall in that categorysongs people dismiss out of hand. The next one Ill

probably do will be ABBAs The Day Before You Came. Its one of their last songs ever and its

one of the saddest, most beautiful songs ever written. When I say ABBA, most people laugh, just asyoure doing now.

I dont dismiss ABBA. Im not about to buy an eight-CD ABBA boxed set, but I acknowledge

theyre responsible for some very culturally important music.

Thats more than most people will admit, I have to tell you. The other thing about the cover version

EPs is that I didnt even tell people what the song was. The record was just called Cover Version.

During the first few seconds of listening to it, I thought perhaps there had been a mix-up at

the pressing plant and that I was listening to another artist. I said to myself Oh dear, its

defective.

[laughs hysterically] I like that. You dont actually know what the song is until you get the CD. I knowif I had announced what that song was, there would be immediate prejudice against the song and

questions like Why the hell have you done this? Why have you covered Alanis Morissette? Why

doesnt he do something good? [laughs] I know I would have got that, not from everyone, but there

would be a core of the fans that would find something to complain about. Im pretty sure if I had told

people what it was, there would have been people who wouldnt have bothered buying it or would

have complained that I should be covering obscure artists, not these major, mainstream, multi-

platinum selling artists. They would have missed the point that its a great song I and I felt I could do

something with it that that would put a different slant on it, which I think I did. I hope Alanis

Morissette gets to hear it. I changed one line of the lyrics because I couldnt understand it. I hope

she wouldnt be offended by that.

Youre very well known for your penchant for releasing a flurry of severely limited editionreleases, to the sheer delight and frustration of your fans. Tell me about the philosophy

behind these releases.

In terms of the volume of material, thats really because of the range of musical interests I have. At

the same time I might be working on a Porcupine Tree record, I might be making some completely


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ambient, textural music with Bass Communion. Its very important to me to have these different

musical personalities I can go to on any given day. Thats probably the reason there are so many

records. Porcupine Tree make a record every two years now, but between every Porcupine Tree

record, there will be things like singles, EPs, demos, outtakes and live recordings which get added

to the discography. Fans seem to want this stuff. I enjoy releasing these things if they merit release.

There are always occasions when you feel theres something that should come out but its not for

everyone. In those situations, youll decide to do it as a limited edition, so that once the hardcore

fans have picked it up, it wont go beyond that.

A good example is the Porcupine Tree XM LiveCD which was a live in-the-studio broadcast wemade at a Washington-based satellite radio station. We wanted to make it available because it is a

good quality recording, even though it doesnt have the atmosphere of a proper live recording. We

decided to make it available in a limited edition of 1,500 copies. What happens when you make a

limited edition is the hardcore fans find about it first, so theyre the ones that snap it up. Theres no

danger the casual buyer who browses in Tower Records will pick up XM Liveinstead of In Absentia.

Another reason I do this is Ive always loved the philosophy of limited editions and the more elusive,

indulgent releases. Im very much a music fan myself. Im a collector of music and a lot of the acts

Im drawn to are very obscure and underground. Some of their releases are very limited and you

almost get into this mentality like the art world, where if a painter creates a painting, it becomes a

very unique, original piece and only one person can own it. Theres an exclusive thing about that.

With some of my releases, Ive tried to go down that route of making something very limited.Theres something more precious to the collector about owning something so limited. I speak for

myself here as a music collector. I love picking up something thats a limited edition of 300 copies.

Ive got a Muslimgauze four-LP box set and its limited to 300 numbered copies. Its one of the most

precious things that I own. Its not like owning a CD you can pick up at a High Street store anytime

you need. So, I guess Ive tried to perpetuate that collector mentality within my own catalog. I love

doing those limited things. Same thing with vinyl. Im a big vinyl fan. And with vinyl, you have to

make things limited because there isnt a big enough market not to.

I find it curious that youre

remastering and remixing portions of

the Porcupine Tree back catalog much

in the same way major labels areapproaching records made 20 to 50

years ago.

I think everyone is doing it now. Its not

just what major labels are doing with old

catalogs. The process of remastering and

reevaluating is speeding up. For example,

theres an artist I like from the 90s called

Momus and his albums are about to be

reissued with bonus tracks. Also, as

recently as five or six years ago, I didntreally know what I was doing with

mastering. I didnt know how to make the

best possible transfer from the master

tapes to CD. When I listen to the remaster

of Signifyor Coma Divine,compared to

those from five or six years ago, the

difference is phenomenal. Maybe fans

dont care so much about that, but for me,

this has been a really good opportunity to

make the albums sound much better.

As for the bonus material, unfortunately, we live in a world where it is very difficult to get things intorecord stores. One of the only ways to get things into the stores and reactivate catalog a lot of the

time is to do whats called add extra value to the records. In other words, add extra tracks or

change the packaging. In a sense, I do feel embarrassed about having to do that, only five or six

years from the original album being released, but its the only way to get them to restock it. In my

own defense, when we do this, we try to give very good quality in terms of the extra value stuff.


12/13

With Signify,theres a whole extra album of songs, most of which werent included on the final

album. They sound good. Its not like they are four track demos. Theyre not far off from finished

masters. So, Im sure people will be happy to have them.

I must admit, Im a terrible revisionist. I feel like my knowledge of recording and sound has come on

so much in the last 10 years that when I listen to things I did even five years ago, I really feel like

want to go back and remix and redo them. I do that a lot. I dont know if fans get pissed off at it, but

I cant help it. One of the first Porcupine Tree albums, Up the Downstair,which is about 10 years

old, has been deleted. Its going to be reissued and virtually re-recorded because I hate it. When I

listen to that record. I think These are good songs and performances, but God, I hate thosecheesy drum machines and samples! The reason I did that at the time was because I couldnt

afford to go to a real studio and have a real drummer. So, Id spend hours and hours programming

drum machines to emulate what a real drummer would do, but of course, it never sounds the same.

Now, I want to go back into the studio and remix and re-record parts of the album with a real

drummer. At the end of the day, you have to be true to yourself as an artist and I really want to do

this.

The Up the Downstairre-release really cant be categorized as a reissue then, can it?

No. Its a new recording. A lot of the elements will still be the same. It will have the same vocal

performances and guitar parts, but its a complete overhaul of that record. The original version is

being withdrawn permanently, so its almost replacing that record with a new version.I understand the No-Man back catalog will be revisited in the future as well.

I hope so, yeah. The first few No-Man records have been unavailable for many years. If you look on

eBay, youll see people bidding large amounts of money to get those records, so there is a need to

reissue that material. Of course, in the process of reissuing that material, there are opportunities for

us to remix, remaster and improve the sound and perhaps correct some of the decisions we felt

were wrong at the time. One Little Indian were very much pushing No-Man towards coming up with

radio friendly singles, as is always the record companys desire. So, we made some very bad

decisions at the time. We took tracks off the records that we felt were better than tracks we put on

them because we were forced to include more commercially viable material. We now have an

opportunity to reevaluate that whole era and extend the records with material that was just as good,

if not better, than the material released at the time. We can also put everything in context to try and

tell a story about where we were at that time in our lives. It was the first time we had a record deal,

so like a lot of musicians, we made decisions we regret, artistic and otherwise.

As you mentioned, some of the rarer CDs you've released are fetching astonishing amounts

of money in collector's circles. What do you make of the obsessive behavior your work is

inspiring?

On one hand I understand it because I myself am obsessive about collecting music. But on the

other hand, it is of course bizarre for anyone to become the object of such obsessive behavior, and

part of me is still astonished that even one person would want to pay money for one of my records.

I like to release a lot of limited editions in a variety of formats because it's fun for collectors. It's also

pissed a lot of people off, but I can't help thatI always see the way I choose to release my musicas just as much a part of my artistic personality as the music itself. One thing I have almost always

striven for is to have a totally unique personality as an artist which extends to every aspect of my

work. This is becoming increasingly rare these days. I think of people like Zappa, Bjork, Neil Young

and Aphex Twin, as these artists inspire obsessive collecting because there is no-one else who can

give their fans the same experience. How many generic nu-metal, old-metal, R&B, trip hop, hip-

hop, indie, progressive and techno artists can say the same thing? Fans of these kinds of artists

can move on to a thousand others with an almost identical sound and ideology in a second. So in

that sense, I'm proud that the work inspires such loyalty among collectors. It must mean Im doing

something right.

Websites:Porcupine Tree

Steven Wilson
http://www.swhq.co.uk/http://www.porcupinetree.com/


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