Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 4 AUGUST 1898

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

132 ~Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

THCRSDAY, 4 AUGCS~', 1808.

The SPEAKER took the chair at half past 3 o'clock.

QUESTIONS. SUGAR LANDS, J OHNSTONE RIVER.

Mr. JACKSON asked the Secretary for Public Lands-

1. vnn he state whether an area of 19~, square miles of sugar lands on the Johnstone River, within four miles of Gcraldton, is to be thrown open for selection this month?

2. If such_ land_ is to be thrown open for selection, has any notificatiOn been advertised in any other paper besides the Queensland Government Gazette?

3. If not, will he, if there is time, advertise In some widely circulated North Queensland newspaper that such land is to be open for selection?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS replied-

1. The area seemingly referred to is from 7~ to 13 miles distant from Geraldton, and was proclaimed open for agricultm·aland unconditional selection at Gerald­ton on the 2nd instant.

2. The opening to selection of the land referred to was advertised in the Cairns A1~gus, Cc:u·ns Post, and Cairns Advertiser.

3. rrhere is no nece.-.:sity for further advertising at prP'!:'.ent, as the land has been withdrawn from selection.

TELEPHONE FROM GOONDIWINDI TO TALLWOOD. Mr. MOORE asked the Chief Secretary (for

the Postmaster-General)-!. Has tbe smvey of the proposed telephone line from

Goondiwindi to Tall wood been commenced? 2. If so, when is it expected to be finished? The P RE:MIER replied-The survfly has not been commenced, but it has been

authorised and will be proceeded with shortly.

PcRCHASE OE' RAILWAY SLEEPERS. Mr. MOORE asked the :Secretary for Rail­

ways-1. 1Yhn.t number of sleepers were purchased and

deliveTed to the Government on the Xorth Coast Rail­way line in the last six months?

2. VVhat. "nts the price per hundl.'ed? 3. VVhat nurnber of those sleepers were used between

Chinchilla and Charlevillc?

The SECRETARY J!'OR RAILWAYS re· plied-

1. Ten thousand. 2. ~'ram £6 17s. 6d. to £7 10s. 3. Two thousand live hundred.

TreK QuARANTINE. Mr. BARTHOLOMEW asked the Secretary

for Agriculture-Is it true that the tick line alo11g the Burnett and

Elliot Rivers has been abolished, and that the cattle from the tiCk-infested country north of the Burnett are now permitled to travel to liar_yborough alld further south?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE replied-

The quarantine line along the watershed of the Burnett and Elliot Rivers was aboUshed by proclamation in the GorernnzPnt Gazette of 15th June la.<;;t.. No cattle from the special qnal'u.ntine area around Rockhampton arc allowed to travel to Maryborough or further south. Cattle from the country immediately to the north of the Burnett ran travel to l\Iaryborough. Clean cattle for immediate slaughttr have been permitted after inspection to be trnclmd to Brisbane.

GAT1'0N CoLLEGE INQUIRY. Mr. DUNSFORD asked the Secretary for

Agriculture-1. Is the ~tatement true, which was recently made by

Profe~sor ~he1ton in the Press, "'rhat he had no oppor­tunity of defending himself against charges made against him at the recent inquiry," and for which be was m1lled upon to resign?

2. Will he cause to be laid on the table of the House a copy of tl1e report of the recent Gatton College inquiry?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE replied-

1. I am not aware that llfr. Shelton made the state­ment referred to.

2. If the House so orders.

FROZEN :MuTTO:-< BY ~'HE "BuTESHIRE." Mr. JACKSON asked the Secretary for

Agriculture-!. Has he seen a paraf,>Taph in the colonial Pre, s.

extracted from a London paper, stating that a recent shipment of frozen mntton from Townsville by the "Bntcshire," bearing the Governrr.ent brand and cer~ tificate. was not only of the most inferior quality but di~east d, and that 630 out of the 1,1::50 carcasses were confisrated by the market authorities as unfit for human food 1.

Address in Reply. [4 AUGUST.] Address in Repl.y. 133

2. Is he aware whether there is any truth in such statements; and, if so, whether any Queensland Go­vernment meat inspectors were guilty of negligence or incapaeit:v?

The SECRETARY FOR ~'>..GRICULTURE replied-

1. Yes. 2 On receipt of a cable message l'Cl)Orting the

rejection of part of the shipment of mutt'Jn ex •· Bnte­shire," the Agent-General was requested to have the carcasses inspected by :Yr. Vellar. the Government Veterinary Surgeon in England. Exhaustive inquiries have been made iu London, and it has been asccrt:.tined that the sheep in question were not suffering from any organic disease, but were in very poor condition. 1'hc fullest im1uiry is being made into the l'P<iipon.3ibility of the Queensland Meat Inspector at Townsville.

MORTGAGE LIMITATION BILL-AT-TACHMENT OF WAGES ABOLITION BILL.

On the motion of Mr. CROSS, it. was resolved ~hat the House. will, on Thursday, the 18th mstant, resolve Itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider of the desirableness of intro­ducing these Bills.

Question put and passed.

ADDRESS I:N REPLY. RESmiPTION OF DEBATE.

Mr. MAUGHAN: With the permission of the House, as a new member, I will offer a few remarks on the Address in Reply. In the first place, I should like to put on record my satisfaction, and I may say my thankfulness, to my collPagues for the very kind way in which they have received me into their party. Not only my colleagues do I thank for their reception, but I also desire to thank certain hon. members on the other side of the House who have been good enough to extend the hand of fellowship to me on this occasion. To yourself, Sir, and to the officials of the House I must also offer my ~ha~ks for putting me through certain facings It IS necessary that a new member should learn. But I could not help comparing the reception that I and others of my friends on this side of the House have received during the last year or two with the reception given to one or two hon. gentlemen on this side when they visited this Chamber for the first time. My thoughts went back some years to the time when my hon. friend the then member for Bundauba received anythmg but a warm reception from this House. At any rate, it is a subject for congratulation that new members coming into the House should be received at least in a gentlemanly manner by both sides of the House. It is due from me as the new mem­ber for the Burnett that I should also place on record my sympathy with the widow of my pre­decessor, the late Mr. W. 1<'. McCord. I can assure you I feel very keenly the death of that hon. gentleman. I think I happened to be the last man he looked at on this earth, and I can assure you that the circumstances of his death were such that I shall never forg-et them. I hope, however, that the lot of his widow on Coonambula Station will not be the lot of hundreds of thousands of widows in Australia to-day, when their breadwinners are taken from them. I hope Mrs. McCord will have plenty to eat and plenty to drink, and plenty of clothes for herself and her family to wear, and a good roof to cover them. So much then as regards the memory of my predecessor. Of course, although I have not had the ad vantage of being in the House l:efore, I have nevertheless in my very humble way taken some interest in the doings of our parliamentarians for some few years past. During the past year or so we have had many changes in the personnel of the Ministry-Cabinet changes. VVe find the late Secretary for Agriculture, Mr. Thynne, has

relinquished that office and has been sue ceeded by a gentleman who is a member of this Chamber. I think it a subject for congratulation that the Government has been sufficiently wise to appoint a member of this House to that import~nt post. I should like to see the Government go a step further and appoint a member of this House to the important port­folio of Postmaster-General. I think every member of the Cabinet holding a portfolio should be a member of this House, and that feeling is, I think, shared by a large majority of the people of the colony. I can quite imagine that the appointment of the hon. gentleman at present at the head of the Department of Agriculture must nece"sarily have given offence to certain hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House. I am pretty well certain it has after what I have heard during the last day or two from hon. members opposite. The hon. member for Oxley and the hon. member for Lockyer-I do not think I am very wrong in making the state­ment-were very anxious to get thaG important position

Mr. ARMSTRONG: Not at all. Mr. MAUGHAN: If it is not a case of

"sour grapes," I must at the same time express the opinion as it presents itself to me. We have a vacancy in this House in the person of the late Home Secretary, Sir Horace Tozer. There are many things which he did during .his administration that I could never agree with, and many things he did 1 will go so br ":s to say I could never forgive. At the same t1me, Sir Horace Tozer, like every man in this Assembly and out of it, had his virtues as well as his failmgs and I am glad to record my satisfaction that at any ratp,, in one or two instances, he showed a desire to do something for the com­munity. I especially refer to the Shops and l<'actories Act-not that I for a moment suggest that he initiated that proposal in the House, because we all know that my hon. friend, the hon. member for Fortitude V alley and other earnest men outside had for many years been engaged in agitating to bring about that very necessary reform.

An Ho~OUI\ABI,E ME}!BER : JY1acrossan was the first to deal with it.

Mr. MAUGHA~: I am very glad to have the hon. member's correction. I always found the late Hon . • T ohn Macrossan was a sterling man. He was Secretary for Railways twelve or thirteen years ago, when I received my first appointment under the Government of th_is colony and there is one thing I am very certam about,' and that is, that the late Hon. John Macrossan l1elieved in paying his officials well for the serviccos they rendered. Another thing I think we should g1 ve Sir Ho race credit for is that in connection with his office as Secretary for Public Works, he was, I am informed on good authority, n,lways ready to assist the small contractor. Hon. members in this House en­gaged in contract work will know that some years ago the small contractors in our com­munity were at a great disadvantage. The hon. gentleman who oc3upies the position of Secretary for Works has been subjected to several volleys from this side of the House already, a> well as from the other side, and I ~hink it is just as well for me, after the heavy artillery that has been poured into him, to let him off easy. But I may say that I think that ~on. member's inclusion in the Cabinet has also g1ven cause for good deal of dissatisfaction. The hon. member representing the capital of the Wide Bay district, Mr. Annear, has at least been suffi­ciently faithful to the present and the past Govern­ment to warrant his position being taken into consideration. I do not know whether he was a disappointed candidate for the portfolio of Public

134 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Works; but putting aside all prejudice, I consider the \Vide Bay and Bnrnett district' have been slighted in the matter, and I hope that, should there be another shuf!le of the cards, that district will be taken into con~ideration. I view wi' h tt great deal of satisfaction the action taken by the Home Secretary in rpc.igning his position as chairman of the Rnyal Bank. I think that action has been t"ken in view of the very strong opinions expressed, not only by hon. mernbeiS on this side, but by the public Press and most men of standing outside. I think the hon. member deserves credit for his action in that respect, but I exped he will find a little difficulty in fulfilling the many duties he will have to perform in thE> Home Secretary's Department, pMticularly as he ha" follower! such an assiduous and hard­working Home Secretary as tlw prpsent Agent­General was. I desire to empha"iEe the fact that wherever I have been travelling about the Snuthern part of the colony it has been the general opinion that persons holding positions as heads of departments of the Go,·ernment >hould be members of this Assemuly. In fact, I have always been of O!Jil,ion-it may he a very extreme opinir,n, bnt that I cannot help, and 'I agree with the Conrier in it-that the nominee Chamber is a snnival of the past, and will have to be, ere lung, rPfnl'DH:Xl nr blotted out of exit-.t­ence. I may say, as a belieFr in constitutional, represfntativr, anti den1ocrntic g(wernment, that the people have quite ~uough to do to keep up oue important est"blishment to l'"'k after their destinies, without keeping up two. Before I go any further, I should like to place on record an opinion that I think is deoirahle. His Excellency the Gnvernor, in reading the Speech from the Throne the other dav, PX·

pressed himself with feelings of ntishction tb:tt he would once more have the pleasure <>f me<·ting hon. meml1ers. I represent a large con­stituency, and an imp''''( ant one, and one which is easy of accees, alth .. ugh it has not had the advantage of having many mile" of railway con­structed in it ; but so far as the people there are concerned, they have no knowledge whatever of the Governor of this country. I think that Brisbane ne·ed not necr ~sarily monopolise the Governor of the c•·lmtry. Of cour.'e J do not suggest that Lord Laming ton shou'd be running about the colony, but I think it would do him a great deal of good, in getting to understand the requirements of the people and the condition of affairs, if he did a little more travelling about in the lmsh electorate,, Considering- that the people there ur0 taxed to pay him a handwme salary, I think it is only jnst that thev should receive an occasional visit from him in return. Of course, in an electorate such as mine, he would have tn do a certain amonnt of roughing it ; possibly he would occa;,ionally have to ;;nbmit to "' piece of good damper and billy tea, but I do not think t.h<tt would do bkt much harm. vVith regard to the assumption by the Premier of his present high office, I quite realise, taking- an i1npartial view of affairs, tl1"'t he has a very difficu!L task to perf•Jrm. After all, it is a posit-ion that carries with it a good deal of p \tronage, and I can understand that he is often at his wits' end to know how to sati<fy the claims which runst come under his notice. While I t:trn not at all rlisinclined to congratulate him upon the attainment of his hi~h office, yet f cannot help thinking that he has missed a ,p]endid opportunity. Wheri the bon. member received an invitation from his predecessor to carry on the Government of the country, it would have been an excellent oppor­tunity for him to have shown thA people what he really was made of. I thiuk it was the late Chief Justice of t.bis colc•ny, Sir Charles Lilley, who, in one of his electioneering speeches, laid down the

principle that is was a splendid thing, and a very safe tbir,g, for a politician to trust the people. I think it would have been an excellent thing if the Premier bad felt inclined that way, and had gone in for a policy of tru.;ting the people. I think, too, that if he had appealed to the country on that occasion, and selected a good team to run with him-a democratic team, if it w.1s possible to pick up stray democrats on that oide of the House--

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Tillet said there were none in Australia.

Mr. MAUGHAN: Il:luch as I admire Ben· jamin Tillet, that is only his opinion.

Mr. GLASSEY: What about the hon. member for Norman by?

Mr. lVIAUGHAN: I remember reading in Hansw·d a statement made by tile hon. member for Norrnanhy last session, in which he asserted that he wa< the pure't of democrats; but I can­not say that I ar•prove of his democracy. But I think it would have bPen a splendid opportunity for our youpg native Premier to have gone to the country and trusted the people. He, however, preferred rather to carry on his work with what wa~ practically the same r•ld Government.. I was very much amused with a cartoon which came out in the Queenslande1·-a very excellent family jnurnnl-when the Premier assumed office. lt depicted a very lame-looking person on a pedestal with five beads. There was the head of Sir Hug-h Nelson, of Sir Samuel Griffith, of Sir Thomas Mci!wraith, and the head of the hon. gentleman now at the head of the Government. The ]etter-precJS underneath was "The same old body," and I think the artist very truthfully depicted the state of affairs as they presented themselves, not only to him, but also to the people of the eolony. Of course the hou. gentleman can tell us that during his cam­paign or tour up North he was able to come in contact with a good den! of political thought, and I have not the slightest doubt that he did.

An HO;>;OUilABLE MEMBER: Lowry. Mr. MAUGHAN: It is quite possible to

learn ··omething from Lowry. My objection to Lowry is th~t he is inclined rather to pull down waves thnn to lift threm up. I remember that on one occasion he undertook to run the position of Governor for £500 a year. At any rate I h~ve no particular objection to the Premier tourmg the country. I dare say when hon. member~ on this side of the House are called upon to assume the Government of the country, it will be not only convenient, but also expedient, that the hon. gentlemen composing the Government should make them se! vr o thoroughly acquainted with the colony >t'< a whole. I do not think it is the correct thing to take a narrow view of these matters. It is very important that not only the Premier, but his C(>lleognes also, should do a g<'od deal of travelling about the country. I believe that travelling i• one of the best systems of educa­tion that a man can have; where would a good many of us have been who have not had the advantage o£ a high-clas• education if it had not been for knocking about the world? It is hard to say. I am a believer in the beneficial results consequent on travelling. We have in Queens­land a tremendous territory, very nearly as large as the Empire of Germany and the Republic of France pnt together, and considering that we have in this great territory a sparse population dotted pretty well all over it, it is very necessary that those at the he3cl of affairs should make themselves conver,,ant with the requirements of the people, and they cannot do that so long as they are inclined si tin their Government offices. There­fore, I do not see any objection at all tu Ministers of the Crown travelling about the country. Of

A.ildress in Repl!J: [4 AuGusT.] Address in Reply. 135

course I do not for a moment believe in these tours being undertaken at great expense to the community. There are plenty of methods of transport from one place to another-steamer, rail, and coach-and I do not think thA expense of travelling need be very high. The hon. gentleman at the head of the Government, during a recent speech delivered in his own constitt1ency, the town of \Varwick, made use of this statement: "I ask you to answer me this appeal-where I am prepared to lead, will you be ready to follow also ? " Had I been an elector of \Varwick, I should have been inclined to have said, " It all depends, ::\1r. Byrnes ; what are your intentions? Do you mean business, or do you mean just to go on carrying on the policy of laissez faire, heeding not the people?" The Premier is astute enough, m· should be, to know that promises make friends, but it is only perform­ances that keep them ; and, considering the immense number of promises he did make on th>tt tonr, he may depend upon it that if he is not prepared to carry out those promise\! he will find himself badly left at the next election. In the course of that same speech he made a statement with which I agree-·

I believe that in the history of this cotmtry there never was a time when there was greater necessity for a spirit of conciliation and moderation in those who are called upon to legislate for, and to watch over, its destinies. I have no desire, I assure you, to r~main "in public office further than to do whn.t,, ver I eau in the service of my native country, to whom. for all her goodness to rne, I am under a debt of deep and unfor­gotten gratitude.

Excellent sentiments, Sir; but it appears to me that the hon. gentleman must himself have come to the conclusion that something was radically wrong in the state of Denmark to justify those sentiments. He knows perfectly well that the hon. members compo~ing the Parliamentary Labour party, and certain gentlemen who in many reforms are allied with us, are not engaged, as it were, in a vicious war with him. Certctinly not ! We are here to defend the people from the unjust inequalities which at present they are groaning under. The people in all civilised communities are not engaged exactly in a war of conquest. They are engaged in a battle in de­fence of their homes, in defence of their hearths, in defence of their liberties and of their daily bread. The same conditions which are operating in older countries in this particular respect 11.re nlso operating in our very midst here in sunny Queensland. The people have a certain amount of patience, bnt patience in the most good­tempered individual sometimes gets exhausted, and it appears to me that the patience of the people of Queensland, at any rate of the workers, primary producers, is exh~usted, and has been for some time. They have petitioned time after time for good laws, and· what has become of t~eir petitions? Judging by resalts, their peti­tiOns have been scorned. Not only have they petitioned time after time, hut they have almost begged for their rights. I regret to think that their begging, their petitions, and their supplications have been ignored. Now they have come to the conclusion that it is not a bit of good petitioning and appealino­and entreating. They have got to the stag~ now -where they say, "\Ve demand that sor,le­thing be done for us." I should imagine that the Government, if it is a wise Govern­ment, a humane Government, and a Govern­ment that was anxious to do something for the people of the colony, would have come to the conclusion that ·the people deserved good government. I think, before I sit down, that I shall be able to prove that the people have not received the benefits we should have received from legislation in this House. I was reading the

ol;her day a certain work, and I came across this quotation, which struck me as very apropos to the occasion:-

nur country's welfare is our first concern, And who Jli·omotes that best, best proves his duty.

I think the time has come when we should expect frcnu the hon. gentlemen occupying the Treasury benches--hon. gentlemen who have attained a standing in the world of education, in the world of commerce, and in the world of law, arts, and so on-I think we have a right to expect from them good government, based on sound principles, which we have not got: There is an idea prevailing among certam hon. members on the other side that we desire to occupy those benches. They are perfectly corr<>ct. I hope the time is not far distant when the Tren,surv benches will be occupied by hon. gentlemen WhO mean business, and IV ho mean to do something to promote the best interests of the country. .Hon. gentlemen on that bench know perfectly well that a great many reforms ad vocaterl by my hon. collcagaes on this s: ', of the House are not mere political nostrums. They know perfectly well that many of those reforms have not only become law in other countries, but that they have been advoc>>ted for years past by .men of gi~nt intellect-men who have occupted very h1gh positions in the world of politics in other countries. The hon. gentleman at the head of the Government-and I am sorry he is not in his place at this moment-I dare say he will remember that one of the keenest intellects and greatest thinkers of the present age, especially on social questions-I refer to Pope Leo-in his Encyclical made use of this statement-

All arrree that there can be no que~tion whatever that so~~, 1·emedy must be found for the misery and the wretchedness whieh press so heavily at this moment on u. large majority of the very poor, due to the concen­tration of so many branches of trade in the hands of a few individuals, so that a small number of the rich ha.ve been able to lay upon the mRsses of tbe poor a yoJ{e which is little better than slavery.

The SECRETARY FOR PURLIC INSTRUCTION: And nis remedy is religious faith.

Mr. DAWSON: He does not know what he is saying. He's ill.

The SPJ;:AKER: Order, order! Mr. MAUGHAN: I am very sorry to see

that the hon. gentleman is ill. I hope to see the time when he will be able to get up nncl give me a tongue thrashing. I shall enjoy it, and shall do my best to reply to it.

The SECRETARY >'OR PURLIO INSTRUC'riON : I have no ambition that way.

Mr. MAUGHAN: I understand the Premier, during his trip home last year, had the advan­tage-and it is a great advantlige to a gentleman occupying his position-of having an interview with the latelv-decp.J,sed statesman, the Right Hon. \V. E. G'!adstone. I om glad that refer­ence is made to the demise of that eminent man, and with the sentiments expres.,ed concerning him I heartily agree. But I should like to point out to the Premier that when he w"s speaking to Mr. Gladstone he was speaking to one who called himself a "national liberal." At \V ar­wick, not long ago, the Premier referred to himself as one who had taken up the r6le of a national liberal, but I am inclined to think that the politics of the hon. gentleman, so far as national liberalism is concerned, are very different to the national liberalism as enunciated by Mr. Gladstone. The right hon. the late Prime Minister of England was head of a very powerful body--the great Liberal party of England-and if I may be pardoned, I should just like to refer to a few of the meaBnres which the Liberal Government of which Mr. Gladstone was head forced through the House of Commons

136 .Addres.~ in Replp. [.ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

and the House of Lords. They passed through the House of Commons a lust and liberal measure of Home Rule for Ireland, which would be the law to-day Lub for a few hundred Con­Bervative peers; they carried a Bill to prevent the adulteral inn of foods-a very important measure ; a Bill to increase the amount allowed as depo,its in the Post Office Savings Bank of England; they provided that every ct,ild wl;ose parents asked for it. should have free educatwn, and that school buildings should be of sufficient size, properly drained, etc.

Mr. STEW ART : We want that very badly here.

Mr. MAUGHAN: As the hon. member inter­jects, we "ant radical reforms in regard to State schools here. The IJiberal Government also appointed a number of working men to be assist­ant factory inspectors, and for the first time appointed women inspectors where they were necessary. That Govemment also made in­quiries into dangerous and unhealthy trades, so that rules should be made to protect the work­men engaged therein. They also increased the wages of the workmen employed by the Govern­ment by £30,000 a year. 'l'hey created a Labour Dr-partment-the Board of Trade- with a monthly Labour (koctte giving full information on the state of empluyruent in the United Kingdom. They also passed a Bill to regulate the hours of railway wr-n~tuts; they appointPd a nun1Lm· of working men magistntes; abolished the rule forbidding Government employees to join tncie nnionH; JXL,~ed a. rneasure giving increased faci­lities for the trtu,sit of seamen's wages, and also appointed a Roy:1! Commi,sion to inquire into tbe condition of the aged poor. These are a few of the measures which were promoted by the deceased statesman and some of his fellow­worltero, to use the words of the Speech, "in the cause of humanity." And, not only the late Prime ::\Iinister of England, bnt othPr great men have expres>ed decided opinions on liberal legis­lation-laws which they consider absolutely nece;,-ary in the interests of the community. Lord :Sali,;lmry, iti that famous "peech he made not very long ago, made the following state­ment:-

They looked around them and saw a growing amount 0f poverty and wa11t of employment, and of course the one object which evel'y statesman wno loved his country should cl .ire to nchieve was th'J.t there should be the largest amount of profitable employmPnt for the mass of the people. He did not say be had any patent rcmed.r for the considerable evils. which beset us on all side'", but he did ~,'ly that it was time they left off amending the constitution of hlrliament and turnec1 all the ener~y and wisdom that Parlia.rn~"'nt posse~.:md in the direction of minimising the evils under which the f'Juntry laboured.

This i,; history repeating itself No reform was e_ver brought about in ~ny State that was not Rlmply forced on the Government by the people themselves. \V A all read, I am sure with great regret, the announcement in the Com·ier two dsysago of the clernise of that great iron Chancellor, PTince Bismarck. I am sure th'lt not only our 60,000 Australia,n-German colonists will grieve and mourn over the lo"'' of thao great man, but the loss will be felt throughout the continent of Earnpe, the United States, Australia, and in fact pretty well all over the world. And what do we find aro his views on the reform question ? To give you some idea of what he conceived to be best for the people, and most conducive to their gnod, I may say that not many years ago, on the 9th M ay, 1884, speaking in the Rtichstag on the industrial insurance question, he pro­claimed the doctrine of the right to work. He said-

Give the working man the right to work so long as he hu.s henlth; ass.ure him care when he is sick, and assure him maintenance when he is old.

Again he said in his place in the Reichstag-For me there has heen hut one compass, one lode­

star and that is the salus publica. Since I entered public life I hllve often perhaps acted ~aSl1ly and imvrudently, but I ha Ye never bee~1 !1- doctrmmre. All syl:'tp,ms by w1nch parties are d1v1ded and brou~ht together are of secondary moment to lne. J!.fy llrst thought is of the nation. Those words are applicable, I take it, not oi_Ily to bnn. gentleman sitting on the other side of the Rouse but also to every hon. gentle­men sitting ' on this side. The Premier, the other day, in his graceful ren!ark~ when announcing himself to the House m hrs new capacity as the leader of the Government, referred to the fact that Parliament was a corporate entity. Quite true, ?ut in order to bring about that happy state of thmgs, a corpo~ate entity, we must have a good deal of co-operat10n. I think I am right in stating that so long as ~he Premier and his colleagues are prepared _to brmg down to the House measures of a progressive type, we shall not on this side be slow to acknowledge such and to do our best to co-operate with then~ in passing those 111easures into law. But I think I am voicing the opinions of a good many people-especially the people who sent hon. members on this side of the House to Parliament-when I say we should be failin_g_ in our duty if we did not offer uncompromr~mg hostility to any measure introduced here whwh, in our opinion, will adversely affect the general welfare of the community. And I hope that the mere fact that there will be an appeal to the c•,mntry next year, or po;;sibly before, will not be m:tde by the Government an excut-e for not briuo-ing in good legislation this gec;sion. It is wonderful, this institution of Parliament! . I have often sat with wme of my old colleagues m the Press gallery and wondered what :" tremen­dous amount of good could be done w a very short 'pace of time in this august Assemb_ly. I could not help thinking that in one week, 1f hon. members made up their minds to d? it,, legisla­tion of such a nature could be earned mto law that would promote the true interests of the people and brinP." about, I would not like to say exact!~ "sodalism in our time," but at any rate a good deal more happiness .and pr:os­perity to our community ; and certamly brmg about what we have not at the present time a uood deal more confidence. I therefore tru,,t ho71. gentlem•m opposite will make up their minds to get to business. They will have seen from the l:tst two elections that have taken place-I refer to those for \Vide Bay and Bur­nett-that there is a desire on the part of the majority of the electors in those constituencies­important electorates, formerly Government seats, the electors composed of all classes, tr!'des and occupations, squatters, farmers, grazwrs, miners, business men, bushmm, and work!'rs generally-for the introduction of progress1 ve lr"islation · and thev will see also, at any rate, th~t there' is something in our claim that the sooner such progressive legislation is initiated the better it will be for this House, and the better it will be for the country.

Mr. HooLAN : Otherwise they are doomed ! !Ylr MAUGHAN: I should like to give this

hint to the Ministry, not to delay in bringing forward--

Mr. HooLAN : They won't take hints. :Mr. MAUGHAN: They might take to heart

the words of one of Shakespeare's characters, where he says,-

Shun delays, they breed remorse ; Take thy time while time IS lent thee. Creeping snails have weakest force; Ji'lee their fault lest thou repent thee. Good is best when soonest wrought ; Lingering labours come to naught.

Address in Reply. [4 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 137

If the Government are sincere, if they desire to hang on to office, thA besc thing they can do is what I have sugf{ested-bring down some goC'd legislation to this House. They will certainly, as far as my colleagues and myself are concerned, receive our support. The Premier at Warwick ha.d occasion during his eloquent oration to refer to the progress of the country during the past six years, and a gond deal of reference has heen made by hon. members opposite to the so-called prosperity which obtains throughout the colony. Well, I challenge any hon. member on the other side to say that any member on any of these benches ever made use of the statement that the colony as a colony was not in a prosperous condition. \Vhen my hon. friend the leader of the Labour party refers to prosperity ver.~us non-prosperity he means, I take it, thac while the colony as a country is in an exceedingly prosperous condition, the country as a people, as a community, is not. That is the view I take, and it is the view taken not only by myself and members on this side but also by many of our leading commercial men in the city and in other parts of the colony. The Premier in referring to the prosperous state of the community tells the people of Warwick that our population has increased Yery largely. So it has. It has incrPasecl at the rate of 10,000 a year for the last six years. That is a subject of congratulation, and an argument in favour of the abolition of State immigration. In discussing our natural wealth as regards primary production we must have regard to the fact that out of a popu­lation of 480,000 we have 82,000 only engaged in creating all this vast volume of wealth we hear so much about. The late Prime Minister, the Right Hon. Sir H. M. Nelson, in his mani· festo in 1896 said the most important means of increasing our prosperity is by expanding the volume and adding to the value of our ex­ports. Quite right. Of course I am referring to the same time that was referred to by the Premier at Warwick. Our princi!Jal exports comprise pastoral, mineral, and agricultural pro­ducts-the products of nature assisted by labour. I think every hon. gentleman will agree with me that increased production should mean in­creased prosperity, but how does it pan out? Who is not proud of our pastoral wealth? I am proud to be a citizen of a country that can turn out such wealth. \Ve have our ex­ports of wool, tallow, stock, [tnd meat, and during the period to which the Premier referred -the past six years-our primary producers have turned out in actual value no less than £25,500,000 worth of pastoral produce. In 1896 the value of our pastoral products totalled £6,000,000 sterling. Just as I am proud of our pastoral wealth I am proud also to think that we have such great mineral wealth. During the same period the value of our minerals exported was £14,500,000. The only important ex­port under the head of agriculture is sugar, which runs into the enormous sum of £4,500,000 sterling during the six years. Last year the total value of our products raised by our primary producers ran into no les' a sum than£15, 790,000. The total exports of the products of this country during the past six years reach no less a sum than £54,800,000, an excess of £25,500,000 over imports, or exports to the good by no less a sum than £4,250,000 a year. Then take our manu· factures. There are hon. gentlemen on the other side who are very much interested in certain of our great manufacturing industries. We have our iron works, for instance, and I was very much impressed, d::tring my recent tour, in visiting one of our chief indus­trial centr~;s-Maryborough. I was exceedingly pleased to think it was possible that in this young colony we had sufficient skill to turn out locomotives. I was informed by Mr.

Harrington, the manager of Walkers, Limited, that in conRequence of the great engineerin~ strike in the old country certain material required for the construction of one or two of the locomotives had not come to hand in time. The Government wauted the locomotives, and it was found necessary to go to work, and from the raw material in the colony that firm were able, with the assistance of skilled men, to complete two or three locomotives wholly and solely the product of the colony. I think it is a subject of congratulation that in a young community which has not had responsible government forty years our manufacturing industries are pret.ty well up to date. \Ve have large machine shops established at Ipswich and other important centres, and from these centres of mechanical engineering and con­struction industry are turned out some mag­nificent machinery, including locomotives and ro1lin~-stock generally. We have our splendid wo•lllen and clothing industry ; but while I am free to confe's that our Ipswich Woollen Company are making good strides, I do not think I am wrong in saying that if it had not been for the heroic efforts of the men connected with that institution, it would have gone down long ago for want of means to carry on that important industry. According to the latest returns 22,000 workers are engaged in the manufactories of the colony, and in only one year, 1897, the value of the manufactured goods turned out ran into no less than £6,250,000. Then from the bankers' point of view, though the banks suffered largely during the crisis of 1893, we find that to-day they are able to boast of assets representing £16,000,000. I cannot help thinking that we are living in a very marvellous country. According to \Veedon, a gentleman who takes a very deep interest in his work-and personally I would like to see greater interest being taken in the collection of statistics by the Government than there is at present-with regard to ou~ accumulation, our revenue during the same period of six years runs into something like £22,000,000 and our expenditure to about £21,500,000. I have just marshalled a few facts and figures to show that the country, so far as a large wealth-producing country is concerned, has nothing to be ashamed of. But after travelling about, inquiring for myself, read­mg· up on the subject, and with the assistance of State documents, I can come to no other con­clusion than that the theory propounded by Sir Hugh Nelson does not pan out at all. It appears to me that as production increases anxiety increases, poverty increases, and bad times increase. That seems a very strange anomally, and I cannot understand men calling themselves responsible individuals in the community tolerat­ing that condition of things. \V e have to face the facts, and the hon. gentleman who has looked at one side of the shield might look also to the other side. If he takes the trouble to look at certain documents also at his beck and call-in fact, as Attorney-General anrl Minister for Justice, he presides over a depart­ment where he has access to documents showing the social and financial condition of the people in the records kept by the department-if he had taken the trouble he would have found out that while the people have been engaged in labouring as they have been m heaping up all this great volume of wealth, at the same time certain forces and instruments have been at work which have thwarted their efforts. I have already told you what our primary producers have produced, but under the heading of "Bills of Sale" I find that our primary producers alone during the same period have been compelled to give bills of sale, for conveniences of course, to the extent of £8,500,000, and mortgages under the Real Pro­perty Acthaveruninto £2,800,000. Weedon gives

138 .AddresJ in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Repljj.

7 per cent. as the average rate of interest charged, and that means that the interest chargeable on mortg>t;<es of real property runs into £595,000 a year. It is dso patent-espec:ally to those who are everlastingly talking about confidence, and our having turned the corner and all that kind of twaddle, as it must be patent to everyone who knows anything about trade and business, and who moves about in commercial circles--that there is a gre;ct deal of unrest at present. You can hardly take up a Courier or Telegraph without seeing it. Only in the last few days you will have seen that some of our r"terling colonists have had to go to the wall, and three gentlemen, one of whom occupied a seat in this House, have failed for sums . epresenting in the aggregate £130,000. Tl1at has been the hte of three of our colonists, who may be considered pioneers, and men who have given the best of their lives to the service of the country. Not only that, but people engaged in the smaller affair" of life are pressed. In the petty debts court cases dealing with oums under £50 the amount,; concerned run into £60,000-that is, for 1897. In the Distli~t Court ca--es the amounts run to £32,000. Then we have in the deficiencies in in sol vencies ;ind liquidations from 1893 to 1897 an amount totalling £1,963,000. And what is the result of all this'? I may be wrong, but I would like some gentleman to prove that I am wrong in my deduction when I say that the only result of it is to destroy confi­dence, and that opinion is shared not only by members on this side, but by some on the other side, and certainly by numbers of business people. It means, too, that it is made compulsory upon them to go in for reductions in State and com­mercial expenditure. It means also that it creates a tendency, as it has done for years past on the part of employers of labour, to cut down wages to a mere wage of subsistence, and it means that the agitation for cheap and reliable labour, no matter where it comes from, will be continued. Then, again, it means that the cry for separation and "cutting the painter," which is raised as a proloest agaim;t the present con­ditions, will continue. vVhat are my hon. friends, the members for Rockhampton and Rock· hampton North, who represent the interest-; and aspirations of the people of the capital of the Central district, everlastmgly agitating forsep ;ra­tion for? SimplY because they know perfectly well that they "have, as it were, weighed the Government in the balance and found it wanting. I am not a separationist; I want to see this "corporate entity," as the Premier calls it, maintained. I believe in an extension of the principle of local government, and think it is our duty as much as po,dible to vromote the interests of the community as a whole. This is an age of co-operation and consolidation, and I am sure I should be very sol'!'y, as a member of thio House, that anything should separate me and my friends from cert:J.in hon. members on this side who have aspirations to sit in the Parliament in Rockhampton. So far as I am personally con­cerned, I am quite satisfied to see them where they are, and if anything like a healthy spirit emanates from the Treasury bench we s11all not hear much more about separation. That may not please the hon. member for Rockhampton, but it is my opinion. I have already referred to onr great prosperity, and have given facts and figures on the other side of the question, and shown that, so far as the results to the actual wealth-pro­ducers are concerned, I can come to no other conclusion than that we are badly governed, and have been for sometime. There must be something radically wrong when in this great colony, which is larger than England, Scotland, Ireland, \V ale", Greece, Servia, and Roumania altogether, with their 60,000,000 inhabitants, but which has only

half the population of Glasgow, we see tpe same conditions operating that are operating m older countries. It is a very bad state of things when a young member has to rise in his place and admit that such conditions ~xist, and I do not do it with any degree of pleasure. ·we have our unemployed, how many I am not prepared to say, and we have our half employed, who cannot be called employed.

The SECRETARY l!'OR RAILWAYS: And we have our unfit.

Mr. MAUGHAN: We have our unfit, and there are even unfit politicians. We J:ave our sweating system, and there are sweatmg dens within cooee of this House. We have our slums and our insanitary homes, and the sooner we have some change the better. TJ;e lo.t of th<; people engaged in primary productw'!- 1s. certaml:l;' !lot a happy one. I represent a dJStrwt contammg mostly primary producers-people who have contributed largely to the wealth of the com· m unity yPar after year, and ~ ?an assure you that the conditions of life preva1lmg nmongst them are by no means satisfactory. This sta~e of affairs does not only exist amongst the mmers and the farmers but hon. members must know that many squatt'ers are at their wits' end to know how to make both ends meet. Hon. members must know from the way things are going, and the rapid &trides that monopoly is maki~g, not only in this colony, but throu!(hout Auetraha, that it is only a question of tnn~ .when these people will be reduced to the positlon of mere slaves. In fact, a great many of them are now nothing more or less, and !t. is a very sad sta~e of thingc; that such conditiOns should obtam here. I need not enlarge upon the positi.on of the farmers at present, because there IS no occasion for it, but later on I may. So far as the miner. are concerned, I can assure hon. members that in my electorate .they ~re not enjoying that measure of pro;perJty which they have a right to expect.

Mr. HooLAN : They will under the new Mining Bill.

Mr. MAUGHAN: Let us hope they may. Some hon. members are continually saying .that this continual agitation is apt to disturb busmess interest~. I think hon. members can come to _no other conclusion from the facts and figures w hwh I have produced, and which are obtainable. by any hon. member, than that at ~he present t1me business interests are very seriously affected. Some persons talk about business i~terests as if the business men of the country simply com­prised a few merchants in Queen street ~nd Elizabeth street, and a few bankers. Nothmg of the sort.

:Mr. GLASSEY: Or a few lawyers. Mr. MAUGHAN: Or a few lawyers1 as t~e

hon. member says. I think the Prem.Ier will admit that the country advocate has nghts as well as the leader of the bar. I think he will also admit that the bush medical practitioner has ricrhts just as well as the more well-to-do practitioner in George street or on Wickham terrace · and that the country storekeeper and the bush p~blican have rights just as mu~~ as the great merchant in Queen street or . Ehzaheth street. I think the hon. gentleman Will f':rther admit that the miner, whether he be a collier or a gold-miner, has rights just as much as the gentleman on the Stock Exchange. At a!'y rate I think so and considering the matter m that light, I thlnk the hon. gen~leman ~ill _do good service to the country by mtroducmg JUSt and good measures. In his speech at ·warwick the hon. gentleman said-

·whatever I can in the service of my native country do, to whom for all her goo~ness to me I owe a debt of deep and unforgotten gratitude.

A.ddress in Reply. [4 A:D'GUST.] A.ddress in Reply. 139

Let him then show his gratitude by bringing down to this House good and sound legislation, and I am sure he will find many members on this side ready to as,ist him. I should just like, in confirmation of the statement I have made about the condition of the people engaged in primary production, to quote authorities which, at any rate, can be termed independent authori­ties. Not very long ago the Anglican Bishop of Brisbane took a trip home to collect funds for his c~thedral scheme. Everybody will, I think, admit that Bishop \Vebber is a ''ery astute man, an observer, a man who does not go about with his eyes shut He is also an advocate for a living wage, for I remember not very long ago reading in the Courier tbat in laying down the law to certain parishioners at Toowong, he said that the sooner they estab­lished a living wage for their clergyman the better, as there was very great danger in their ignoring their obligations in that respect. At any rate the bishop has travelled a good deal iz, this colony, and he wrote to a London paner to this effect- -

Your great English financial institutions (notably in Lombard street and Bishopsgate street ".ithin) own immen~e tracks of our ·western and south-western country. . . . 'file old squattRr who. did contribute to local work for the spiritual and social elevation of the people has gone down before the financial institu­tion:;~, whose directors courteously assure you that their articles of association do not admit of the recognition on their part of moral obligations ...

Again, the Austmlian Banking and Insurance Record, the official organ of the banking insti­tutions of the colonies, is by no meam lacking in captious criticism on this particular matter. On the 31st of .March, 1897, in a paragraph referring to the Australian banking returns, appears the fol!owing-:-

In the meantime the large producing industries are suffering, and the lack of producing power in the country is reflected in the dulness of trade in the leading commercial centres. I am by no means a pessimist, and I am sure that the leader of this party is by no means a pessimist, but I think)t necessary to make these quotations. In the Queenslander, not very long ago, appeared a letter signed "A Poor Squatteress," in which the writer said-

Ha" are the wives of squatters to 1ive and their children to be educated now 1-' Years ago a squat.ter was envied; he could afford to live in :Melbourne or Sydney, or wherever else he chose. Times got worse, and they came to live on their stations, but still could manage to relieve the tedium of bush life by an annual trip. Now life is unendurable. . . . It is no doubt rough on the squatter and selector, but it is doubly rough on the wives. Hardly any of us can afford to keep a servant, so the work that used to be done by two maids and a nurse we have to do. And this is the serious part of it-

In the meantime our children are growing up quite ignorant, without any pretence of education. That is very conclusive proof that things out in that Western country are not what they are painted. Another lady, writing about the bad times squatters are experiencing at present, says- ·

But now, what with the bank's aversion to further advances, and the abolition of an income through the quarantine regulations, and the consequent stoppage by the stores of f'urther credit, we are hopelessly stranded. . . . Our position almost resembles that of the Klon­dyke miner, who perishes through starvation, with his pockets full of gold. If present circumstances continue, we shall soon be free from the burden of needlework, and take to the empty flour-bags to improvise some sort of covering for our little ones.

This did not appear in the Worke1·, in the Gympie Truth, or in the Rockhampton People's Pape1'. It appeared in the leading weekly family journal-.The Queenslander. A good deal has been said by the hon. member for Lockyer and the hon. member for Oxley and other hon. mem-

hers who have preceded me with regard to the position of our farming communities. I dare say the Secretary for Agriculture will remember not very many weeks ago presiding at a very im­portant farmers' conference in H.ockhampton. I am sure that hon. men1 b2rs on this side are only too delighted to think that the farmers a~e rising to the occasion, and have made up the1r minds to bring their needR and their aspirations before the notice of Parliament. It was an excellent thing for our farmer•' associations to organis~ that conference, and it was cer­tainly a diplomatic act to get the head of the Department of Agriculture to pre­side. I believe I am right in saying .that it was the most remarkable conference of farrners that has ever taken place .in the colony, and I invite hon. members on both sides, if they want to glean facts, figures, and acquira interesting information concerning that branch of primary production, to read the last two issues of the Agricultuntl J aurnal. I shall not weary the House with more than one or two extracts. One of the members at that conference was Mr. J'. Hudson, of Rosewoud-a gentleman who is a sympathiser with the present Government, and a g-entleman who is held in high esteem in the Rosewood electorate, and who did not, on more than one occasion, when I have had the honour and pleasure of being present at the Rosewood shows, abstain from telling Ministers who hap­pened to be at the banquets, what he thought of the farmers' grievances and proposed remedies. Mr. Hudson, in a paper that he read at the Rockhampton conference, entitled "Some of the disabilities of farmers," said-

Want of capital is one of the disabilities of farmers, and one that has paralysed and crippled his efforts up to the present. Ninety per cent. of the farming settle­ment of Southern Queensland was by poor men, and their iron wills and strong arms have done wonders; but to bear the expense of taking up land, then to clear and fence it, buy implements and horst!S necessary to bring his selection into a state of cultivation, and cattle to stock it, and at the same time feed and clothe a family, is a task of Hercules, and such as very few could accomplish without getting involved-a task, perhaps, that no country or <lovernment is justified i_n expecting without help. Thousands know, to thmr sorrow, how they have had to pay through the nose for a little accommodation. If farmers could have obtained money at a moderate rate of interest, farming matters would be in a very much further advanced state than we see them:to-day. Thao demonstrates, in spite of the remarks of the hon. member for Lockyer and other hon. members who have spoken, that the farmers have grievances, and very serious grievances, and that they look to the Government and to the Secretarv for Agriculture to help them to get some me"asure of relief.

The SECRETARY ~'OR AGRICULTURE: They have never looked in vain yet.

Mr. MAUGHAN: I am glad to hear the hon. gentleman say so ; hut before I sit down I shall be able to show hon. members that in one or two matters vitally affecting their interests they did not receive that sympathc,tic treatment which one would have expected the hon. gen­tleman to ha.ve given them. There is another thing which presses very heavily upon them. It is not only a question of getting land, sowing crops, and getting implements, water facilities, better means of transport, and that sort of thing; but there is the question of disposing of their produce when they have produce to sell. There is very little use in men growing crops and sending them to market unleso

·they get some return for their produce. I dare say hon. members are aware that it is a very common thing for our farmers to consign to certain individuals and businesses the results of their labour, and a day or two after !{et an account sale back showing that they owe something to the

140 Address in Repl!J. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Repl!J.

mi~dlem.an. I have in my possession accounts whwh Will amply demonstrate that what I say is correct. The hon. gentleman at the head of the J?epa:·tment of Agricultue had the pleasure of !Istemni? on the 12th May, 1898, to a very wterestmg paper by an intelligent farmer Mr M. O'Ke_efe, of. Laidley. That gentleman know~ w!Jat he Is talkmg ahont, and this is his opinion With regard to the very unsatisfactory conditions under which a good many of our farmers are labouring-

The existing system of markets for agricultural pro~ duce has long been a c1uestion of much dist::.atisfaction to Queensland agriculturists. Espe('.ially is this the ~ase as ·regards the Roma-street markets, Brisbane. rhese markets 'vere supposed to be esta.blished prin­cipal_ly for the convenience of farmers, but they are so mampulated by the auctioneers and dt·i1lers that instea-d of bemg a boon they are generally regarded as a curse to the agricultural industry.

Mr. LEAHY : Who clamoured for them? ·who ad vacated them ?

M_r. M.AU_GHAN: The senior member repre­sentmg Fortitude V alley had Rmnething to do with the _estttblishment of those markets. I do not see h1m here, but I believe he kncws a great deal abou_t tho~e markets, and hn may be able to ~hrow a httle hght on the underground engineer­mg that is going on in connection with the dis­posal of farmers' produce. Farmers are to be fou'!d everywhere in the. humiliating position of havmg no say whatever m the making of prices for their own produce.

The TREASURER : '\Vho has? Mr. MAUq-HAN: ~he lawyers have. They

comma!'d then· own pnces and can mark their own br1efs. I dare say the Treasurer would not mind engaging in business on the same lines. I consider that if it is competent for one class of the. commun~ty, such as the lawyers, to mark their own prwes for the product of their intel­lectual labour, it is equally competent for the farmer to mark his price on his bag of corn.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : So he can. Mr. MAUGHAN: But can he get it? 'l.'he SECRETARY l'OR AGRICULTURE : Can the

lawyer? The TREASURER: Bring in a Bill to regulate

the price of farmers' produce. Mr. MAUGHAN: Bring in a Bill for the

eqtablishment of State markets controlled by the Department of Agriculture, and you will find a good many hon. members on both sides of the House who will be willing to support it.

Mr. GRnrEs: That would not control the bidders.

Mr. MAUGHAN: It is the business of the State to find markets nnd control them. I do not see anything 1:njra clig. in the State finding markets for the disposal of produce. I do not see anything dangerous about it. It finds markets for the meat industry, and why not for this?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: It does not fix tte prices.

Mr. MAUGHAN: The hon. gentleman at the head of the department knows there are certain ways of fixing these things.

Mr. SllliTH : The State ought to find lawyers also.

Mr. MAUGHAN: Yes; I would not mind if our law was nationalised to-morrow. It is quite possible we should have far less law and more justice. Mr. O'Keefe makes the statement that-

The antics played with the markets by the produce auctiOneer and dealer overwhelm one's sense of justice . and destroy confidence between buyer and seller. . : Then he says-

Anyone having business at the Roma·street markets will know what I mean when they call to mind the great rises in prices of farm produce, often to an un­warrantable extent, but which f&ll again, in a day or

two, even lower than before. This invariably has tho effect apparently desired by the produce auctioneer and dealer. . . . Every farmer has his own bitter ex­perience. I should have liked to have seen the face of the head of the Agricnltural Department when Mr. O'Keefe made thi• statement-

! would suggest that the Roma-st1·eet markets be placed under the control of the Department of Agricul­ture, with a departmental auctioneer and an efficient staff of assistants, the whole of the salaries to be paid by the department. The department, however, in order to repay itself, to have the power of eharging a com­mission on all sales, so that not one shilling of expense shall fall npon the country. That is an excellent idea, I think, whatever may be the opinicn of the hon. gentleman at the head of the department. Then he goes on-

The duty of such an officer should be to act as general agent between buyer and seller, to endeavour to find markets for all surplus produce, to purchase supplies, etc., on account of all farmers ordering same By this means the consumers of llrisbane will be able to attend the markets-and this is a very important matter-and make their purchases direct from the producer­a m.c1tter of impossibility now, as I could easily prove here did space permit. It is often "aid, "You people are not practical farmers-what do you know about it." I am quite prepared to put my opinion on one side and to present to the House the opinions of practical farmers, and I think thPy are worthy of some recognition. Mr. Peek, a gentleman of considerable educational attainments, I should imagine, who knows what he is talking about, pointed out, in his paper on "Markets, Market­ing, and the Better Distribution of the Farmer's Produce," that storekeepers and dealers fixed the farmer's prices, and the commission, charges, storage, wharf rates, freight, cartage, bags, bales, and cases all had to be deducted from the price obtained for the produce disposed of. He also pointed out that when produce is scarce valnes are artificially increased, and affirmed the theory held by many thinking men that when so-called good seasons come round and the produce is plentiful, low values ensue and poor prices are obtained, and he winds up in a lament­able way-

Farmers suffer because their freights, rates, and expenses are not lower, proportionately, with the results, hardly being sufficient to clear expenses, and certainly not enough to fully repay them for their time and labour. That is the opinion of a man of some weight in the farming commnnity. And the farming com­munity are so agitated that they are becoming dangerous agitators. In fact, this very gentle­man, Mr. Peek, became inspired, and wrote a poem, a portion of which 1 will quote. I take it from the Rockhampton Bulletin. It is headed "Co-operation"-

Let a farmers' combination Tal{e a firm, decided stand

For a better distribution Of the products of our land.

* * * When we hear of bags of money Got by middlemen with ease;

Is it fn,ir to take the honey l':arned by agricnltural bees?

No! For "farmers' rights'' are asking Loudly for a fairer lot;

H :Market systems" now are tasking, Painting black, a '"'nker spot.

Work on, toilers. work on bravely, '!'here should be no idle drones ;

In this land of fruitful plenty "Co-operate"-success will come.

The TREASGRER: Are thRre any farmers at Rockh>mpton?

Mr. MAUGHAN: I presume there are; at any rate there are consumers, and the occaaivn I

.tlilrlress in Reply. [4 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 141

am referring to was a conference. And the farmers all over the colony deserve the Trea· surer's deepest sympathy and aid, as I hope to show him pre•ently. A large majority of them are heavily taxed. They contribute to the revenue in the shape of Customs duties, excise, harbour dues indirectly, railway mtes, stamp duties, and on the top of those are the diseases in sheep tax, the brands tax, the meat and dairy produce fund, the live stock and meat export fund, interest, and survey and other fees. And they have a right to expect that, in consideration of the revenue they bring into the Treaoury, some consideration should be given them. In my opimon the primary proclucers of any country ought to be the wealthiest people in the corn· munity. At any rate, they should have a fair share in the product of their labours. I read in the Speech-

The earnest attention of my Government is being given to proposals which willJ it is conE;idered, assist still further in fostering agricultural enterprise" Among them may be mentioned a scheme to enable farmers to secure fin~ncial assistance for the improve­ment of their holdings on more favourable terms tban those at present obtainable.

I rejmce to see that paragraph, and I hope it will be given effect to as soon as possible. I need hardly say I shall lnok forward with very grr:tt interest to see the part the Secreta1y for Agri· culture will play when the Bill dealing with it is introduced. He had the honour-and I am sure he would take it as an honour-to preside oYer that important assemblage of farmers, and after hearing their wants and requirements, he could come to no other conclusion, I am sure, than that our primary producers require immediate assistance, and that there should be no occa~ion to insert this paragraph in the Speech simply as an electioneering cry for the next Parliament. I was referring just now to the item of survey fees paid by th~ farmers. For other classes sur­veys a.re made wiLhout charge. The Government survey big runs for the pastoralists, the banh, and the mortgage companies. \Vehave awell·equipped and splendidly officered and manned Surveyor­General's Department ; and I think that if it is competent for the State to survey our great pastoral lands, our rivers, and the harbours of our coast, it is competent for it to go a little further, and extend the principle so as to give the farmers free surveys. I h'we always looked upon that particular form of taxation as a very iniquitous item, and I hope that some day or other it will be done away with. The hon. member for Lockyer talked about the splendid condition of his electorate. Indeed, one would imagine from what he said that the Lockyer was a land of Canaan, "flowing with milk and honey.' No doubt that hon. member repreFents a very beautiful electorate. It poBoesses a great deal of magnificent soil, and is inhabited by a splendid body of people. I have made inquiries into a good many of the farming d1stricts of the colony, and in none more clooely than that represented by the hon. member for Lockyer. I know every bit of it, and I know some hundreds of the sterling colonists settled there. But I also know this, that not very long ago there was an exodus from that land of Oanaan. In fact I have here a photographic group repre­senting what are known as "The New Lairlley Co·operativeR." In consequence of heavy rail­way freights, bad markets, the injustices and iniquities perpetrated by middlemen and hard­ships generally, they determined to clear out and try some other place, so they went to the electorate represented by the hon. member for Musgrave. From what they had heard of that electorate they were led to believe that it at any rate offered better opportunities fur them, but I regret that their hopes have not been realised as they might have

been. The same system which operates m I,ockyer and every other farming electorate also operates in 1\lmgrave, and these good fellows, who thought they were going to become well·to· do sugar-grower• in a short time, have found that they were eimply going from "the frying­pan into the fire." Frum being heavily taxed LaidlPy f.wmers they became tenant farmers in the Musgrave. I thought when I went there that I was going to find the new Laidley CO·

operators making progre's and showing the country and the world at large that it is not always expedient to stop in one particubr place, but l regret to say that the experience of hope­lessness which prev :died in their Locky3r homes also prevails in their J:\'[usgrave homes. I merely mention this in support of my argument that the farming community, our primary producers, have serious grievances, and that it is the duty of the Government to investigate these things. The hon. gentleman at the head of the Depart­ment of Agriculture, if he receives a telegram a bout the tick in some particular dis­trict, or the appearance of a grub in some sugar-cane, or the appearance o~ rust som.ewher.e in the wheat, sends an expert d1rectly to mvesti· gate the matter and find out the cause if possible, and science is brought to bear to cope with the trouble. But what about onr farmers, our small producers ? I think it is important that the Government sbo,Jld ha,·e ex}Jerts, by virtue of whose knowledge we can get rid of the pe.sts which act as r. scourge to the whole land, whwh are apt to depreciate the price of our products to an alarming extent, and also depreciate the value of vroperty ; and mnch more do .[ think that an important department like this should do its best to investigate the causes which operate so injuriously amongst our primary producers. I am glad to see that the Secretary for Agriculture went so far as to state, with regard to the important matter of cheap money, that he had given it very serious consideration. The latest report from New Zealand show• that the system of making advances to the settlers is working splendidly.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRIOcLTC:RE : How much do they r~pay?

Mr. MAUGHAN: I have not the figures by me, but I dare say 1 can get them after tea. At any rate, I ha Ye very little faith in the sincerity of the Government in this matter. It is not very long ago that the Home Secretary made use of this statement, as will be found in Hansartl of the 12th November, 1897-

I believe the bond fiie and industrious selector will do 1a-r better by working out his own salvation. Such a statement coming from a member of the Government is apt to lead one to doubt their sincerity in this matter. I hope, however, that it is not too late for the Home Secretary to come to a different conclusion, and to hope that the promise of the Govemment in the Speech will be realised. In making the statement he did, the Home Secretary can hardlv have been aware that in many parts of this colony there is a splendid body of pioneer primary producers doing very heavy work and eng'aged in the impor­tant function of producing our brendstuffs, and they are practically stranded for want of means. The financial thought in the metropolis on the question is changing to a considerable extent, and when we read a leading article in the Courier arguing in favour of cheap money it comes as a source of great gratification to us. I was very pleased to find in a leader on the Bank of North Queensland the following expressions given vent to:-

The enormous depreciation in the value of securities has been in the past a very formidable disaster to con­tend with, but in addition the managements or financial institutions have been forced to acuept the policy of a

142 Arlrlress in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Adrlress in Reply.

low rate. That policy, however, it should lJe said once more, is not alP ~itim[Lte evil. Cheap money encourages confidence, and it encourages enterprise, and this ha5tens the day when there will be a. greater demand for assistance and greater ability to pay for it.

It is a subject for congratulation that the leading morning newspaper is coming round to our way of thinking, and coming to the conclusion that that plank of the platform of the Parliamentary Labour party hnR, :.t any rate, justice in it. The leader writer evidently wrote from a property point of view, and he has the idea that property, strange though it may seem, would not depre­ciate in consequence of cheap-money schemes being inaugurated in this colony. In reply to an interjection from the Secretary for Agriculture during my remarks as to the operations of the Advances to Settlers Act in New Zealand, I mformed him that probably after tea I would be able to give him some information on the subject which would set at res~t his doubtR as to the good work done in New Zealand as th~ result of the operation of that Act. I was fortunate enough to find in the library, in the Queensland Tirnes of 5th July, 1898, an extract having reference to the operations of the New Zealand State Bank in con­nection with loans to producers. The officer in charge, in his annual report up to the 31st March, 1898, says that the net advances repre­sent £1,403,000, the number of people who have been relieved is no less than 5,139, and the securities are valued at no le>s than £3,151,000. So great has been the satisfaction given through­out the country at the working of the Act, which would expire in October next, that the New Zealand Government have resolved to introduce a Bill during the pre"ent session providing for the extemion of the operation of that statute for another three years. I commend that information to the very serious consideration of the hon. gentle­man at the head of the Agricultural Department. The hon. gentleman at the head of the Lands Department has also in no uncertain voice depre­cated any attempt being made to go in for a cheap-money scheme. Last session he made use of the statement that it was safer for the country to do what we were doing-whatever that might be-than to allow any political money-lending to farmers or anybody else. I like to give justice where justice is due, and I believe I am right in saying that the hon. gentleman is one of the most industrious Secretaries fur Lands we have ever had, and one of the most approachable, and I can only feel sorry to think that that gentleman should have given expression to snch views. I hope we may hear, when this cheap-money scheme of the Premier's comes forward, that the hon. gentleman ha.s changed his opinion. Of course the Premier is very em]'hatic in his statements in regard to this scheme. In fact, he distinctly told the people at \Varwick that some scheme will be devised \\'hereby the Government will be able to give financial aid at a lower rate than is at present charged. We know from official and newspaper reports th<>t the credit fancier system is making goud prog-ress in Victoria, and not long n go I recei vecl an answer to a letter I wrote to Mr. Kingston to the effect that the State Advances to Settlers Act in South Australia was (l"iving every sati;faction. I look forward to the time when we ~hall be able to see advertisements in Qneenslaml such as they see in South Australia and other places, and a copy of which I hold in my hand, to the effect that the State Bank of Queensland is prepared to lend money at 4~ T'er cent. interest. There will then be a possibility of our producers lifting themselves out of the quagmire in which they are now struggling. I am per­fectly sure that when once we get our financial home set in order, confidence will be restored very quickly. As I said earlier in my

address, I am certain that our business com­munity will not feel any confidence until we get a State bank, or a bank more under the control of the State than any bnnk we have now. We shall always be subject to crises until then, which will overwhelm trade and finance, and I hope that the hon. member at the head of the Department of Agriculture will take this matter into his serious consideration. Not only do the farmers suffer serious trouble and inconvenience through the want of proper markets, but they also suffer~ owing to the very primitive method of transport they have at prP'ent. Of course there are railways in some of the more thickly-settled districts, but hon. members who have travelled about the country, as I am sure some of them have, with their eyes open, can have come to only one conclusion, and that is that our farmers are a very patient lot of veople. Some years ago our local authorities suffered through a very serious scheme of retrenchment. At one time they used to receive an endowment of £2 for £1, and considering the returns we get from the farming districts I do not think that was any too much. But now a very small sum is granted by way of endowment, and that is how our annual surpluses are manufactured. I can assure hon. members that the condition of some of our main highroads in the bush~-roads leading to large scrub areas where large farming opera­tions are carried on-area disgrace to the country. A great many thoughtful men have told me that it would be far better for them tu have no local authorities at all, but a roads and bridges depart­ment instead. At any rate things would be no wor•e than they are at present.

Mr. GRmEs : That would be going back fifteen years.

Mr. MAUGHAN: Anyone who visited the Killarncy would very soon see how much better the roads are in New Sonth \Vales than in Queensland. The gentlemen present at thn farmers' conference were very emphatic in regard to this matter, and I am glad some reference is made to it in the Speech, and there is a possi­bility of the local authoritieR receiving some assistance. In 1889, when the population of the colony was only 387,000, the endowments to divisional boards and municipalities was £273,000 a year, but now, with an increase of 100,000 in our population, that amount is reduced by £211,000. Con"idering the increased road c"r­riage, and the increased responsibility, and all other things, I think the loc:tl authodties have been anything bnt fnirly treated. At any rate, I do not think that is what can be called good government. '!.'he Secretary for At;ricul­ture said that if the Govelllment increased the endowment the money would have to come from wmew here, and if it were proposed to increase taxation by re-imposing the duties on farming implements and fencing wire, many might hesitate l:efore pr<''sing their applications for increased endowment; there was no doubt, however, that the loeal authnrities did want more money. I do not think there is any need for further 'taxation at all, hec"usc if we reduced our ex penditnre in other directions we could find plenty of money.

The SECRETAI\Y FOR AGRICULTURE : The conntry is so pro~ perou.-:.

Mr. MAUGHAN: I have shown that the country, as a country, is prosjJerons, hut the community, as a community, is poor. \Vhat I have been saying abo'lt the condition of our agricultural classes is co!lfirmed not onl v by many hon. members who do not sit on the Trea­sury bench, but it is also confirmed by the Secretary for Railways, and he, I think, knows something about the condition of the agricultural classes. \V hen speaking on the Address in Reply last year he said-

Address in Reply. [4 AuGusT.] Address in Reply. 143

Our producers are so overburdened with taxation to meet these extravagant demands that they can hardly get along. I haYe seen more poverty amongst small selectors, and even large selectors and squatters, than anyone could believe who has not had the opportunity of witnessing it as I have. And the hon. gentleman was perfectly correct. Reference is made in the Speech to recent inter­national events, and it is said that they-have proved to the world how essential it is, under the circumstances of modern warfare. that a country should be prepared, to the utmost of its a.bility, to cope with any emergency which circumstances may bring about. It is very necessary, if we are going to have a Defence Force, that we should have that force well equipped and up to date. As has been pointed out by many metnbers in dis­cussions on the Estimates, we have spent a good deal of money on our Defence Force. It is a question whether that money has been spent to the best advantage or not. In many respects I do not think it has. Under thA Defence Act we hsd, according to the census of 1891, no less than 129,000 Queenslanders who were liable to be called on in case of war, but I should like to know how many of those 129,000 men, if called upon, would be capable of handling a rifle. Not many. More attention should be given by our defence authorities-! make this suggestion to the Premier for what it is worth-to our rifle clubs. The rifle clubs throughout the colony have been pretty well starved, and if we desire to see our Defence Force efficient we must give decent subsidies to existing rifle clubs, and establish others in various parts of the colony. \Vith regard to our Naval Force and the "Paluma" and "Gayundah," I cannot help laughing at them. One vessel like the "Vesuvius," the American dynamite ship, would blow up our whole naval power very quickly, and probably pretty well the whole of our squadron. We ought to secure the very best actvice with the view of making our Defence :Force worthy of the name. We have a tremendous coast to attack, a length of 2,550 miles, and the cost per mile to the taxpayer is £32 per annum, our total vote running into about £80,000. With a little extra expenditure we might establish a system of naval defence which would at any rate secure our riv<rs and ports from imminent danger. :Yiore atten­tion rni~>;h~;, for instance, be given to submarine mining. I believe the Premier is in sympathy with an exten"ion of that particular arm of defence. Another thing I should like to see is more inducement offered to our people to join the Naval Defence Force at the various ports of the colony. Another thing I should like to seA is a training ship for bnys in Moreton Bay. I am a great believer in training ships. \V e have all the elements in our youth to make a good, strong, and useful n>tval arm, and I think we should take advantage of that. Our military arm is in fair working order, and does not require very much comment from me at the present time. If the establishment of local wool sale~ will be of any benefit to the colony, the legisla­tion which will be required in that direction will receive my cordial co-operation and assistance, but if it simply plays into the bands of Sydney and 11elbourne commercial sharke it will meet with my uncompromising hostility. Vve should do everything we can to see that we are not robbed by southern commercial concerns. Adelaide have their wool sales, I believe, and as they have a smaller wool product than we have, I do not see why we should not have our own sales. The establishment of a university, so the Address informs us, is to engage our attention this session. Anything we can do to promote educa­tion will have my support; but, whilst I shall rejoice to see a university established, there are

other matters which require consideration as well as a university. \Ve should have had a university many years ago. Numbers of our young colonist,, have been compelled, after leaving our public seminaries, to go to older countries or to the southern colonies in order to complete their educ·1tion. In New South \Vales the university was established when they had a population of only 200,000 and a revenue of £GOO,OOO; in Victt•ria the univer,qity was estab­lished when they h>td a population of 350,000 and a revenue of £2,500,000 ; in New Zealand when they had a population of 240,000 and a re1euue of £1,2.50,000; in South Australia, with a population of 204,000 and a revenue of £1,000,000; and in Tasmani:, with a population of 100,000 and a revenue of £270,000. \Vehave a population of 500,000 and a revenue considerably over £3,500,000, and an annual trade of £15,000,000, and yet we have no university. The time has certainly come v:hen we should ha Ye one, and it will be a splendid thing for the community. Of course we have not the advantage the other colonies have had with reference to endowments rmtde for educational purposes by wealthy individuals. The Premier knows that in his own university-Melbourne-several wealthy nien have r,ut their thousands into the concern, thereby greatly assisting the cause of educa­tion, flncl the same thing has happened in Sydney and Adelaide. If there are any wealthy people in Queensland they he,ve not cvntributed in like manner. I do not think there are many -those that we have do not live in Queensland, but reside in Londc.n, Paris, Brussels, or Berlin, and do not appear to pay much attention to the endowment of educationfll institutwns here. Before the Government come down to the House with their scheme for a university, I hope they will put out· present educational system in a better condition than it is to-day. \Ve ha Ye had during the years fJUoted by the Premier in his \Varwick speech an increase of 144 State schools; the teachers ""ll<JW an increase of 327, and out of that number there are lDO pnpil-teachers. I notice that there is a general tendency in the Department of Public Instrnction to !'O in for a polite kind of sweating. It is very necessary that we ""hould have pupil-teachers; but, if they are to oust our qwtlified teachers, it will sim]Jly end in disaster. There are already, according to the departmental report, over sixty provi•ional sehools entitled to rank as Btate schools. Another thing--and the. hon. rnember for Croydon has tabled a motion dealing with the subject---is in connection with the school buildings. I hope the time is not far distant when our State school buildings will be put on the same plane as police cells, lockups, and other buildings, which are carried out by the Department of Public \Vorks. Of course, the det•ils of the university scheme have nut yet been made public, but, as there is no probability of getting a large sum of money throu!llt the House, I take it the Go­vernment will be content to estal>lish the university on a small scale. You can hardly expect a large concern from a vote of £5,000, but we may have an arts and a science coune. \Ye have the Agricultural College, as well as a splendid technical college in Brisbane, !md other educational institutions that are doing good work, and all tbese might be brought into the university curriculum. One matter which I hope will occupy the attention of the Premier is the nece,eity for a training college fur te,•chPrs. That is a Yerr necessary p,rt of our educational system, and is a long-felt want. Hecent regula­tions impo.-e upon our· teachers new conditions. It is proposed to go in for higher subjects, and, from what I hear, snme of our teachers will be unable to manage, owing to the lack of the necessary knowledge. At a teachers' picnic held

144 Ad<hess in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Repl!J.

some time ago, at which the Chief Justice and the Secretary for Public Instruction were present, I noticed in the Courier report, there was a little passage-at-arms between those gentlemen, and the Chief Justice did not hesitate to tell the Secretary for Public In­struction that he thought the latter was too unsympathetic as Minister in char,;e of the Educa­tion Department. Another important matter we have to consider in this connection is the education of our bush children. I was very much interested in the speech of the hon. member for Balonne on this question last session. It is lamentable to think that it was necessary for such a speech to be made. In a BrisLane news­paper in ,January last a teacher made the follow ing remarks :-

As a teacher in these back-blocks I could make the hair of your readers stand on end with very shame at the thought of the neglected condition o! these little outcasts of the wilderness. The savages of Samoa and the l\faories in New Zealand are educated to the handle in comparison to many of these little ones. I ha.ve seen a full-blooded native girl (aboriginal) teaching seven white children, and two of them girls over fourteen years old. The black teaching the white, and this in a Christian land, not 400 miles from Brisbane.

The PREMIER: Blackfellows teach white men to fight every week, and kanakas are employing white men down on the Tweed.

Mr. MAUGHAN: The hem. gentleman need not go to New South Wales for an example. If he goes to the Musgrave electorate he will be told by the settlers that the same condition of things obtains there. Reference is made to the nece:,sity of bringing in a new mining law. Of course, we cannot say very much about that now, but I hope, when framing that measure, due regard will be given to the condition of 0ur miners. vVith regard to the areas, that, of course, is another very important matter. Some very interesting debates have taken place in connect'ion with that matter in thl' Brisbane Chamber of Commerce, and I am looking forward with a certain amount of interest to th" measure. vVe have splendid mineral wealth, and one of our mines alone -Mount Morgan-during the past ten years has turned out .£5,900,000 worth of gold, and paid in dividends £4,267,000. The w"'ges come to less than half the dividend, and I think the time has come when we should protect our primary pro­ducers, the miners and others. I do not know very much about the working of the Mines Department, but I know that during the past seven years the estimates for that department ha,·e been reduced by .£10,000 a year. Of course, hon. gentlemen on this side have dealt with a great many matters that it is altogether unneces­sary that I should touch upon, but what strikes me abont the Speech is not what is included in it, but what is left out of it, Considering the tours that have been made by the leader of the Government and his friends during the recess, and the knowledge they must have gained of the country and its people, I am exceedinglv dis­appointed to find that there are not included in the Speech measures of reform which, in my judg­ment, and the judgment of other people, should have been included. The Premier at Warwick referred to himself as a national liberal. vVhat I wish to see as the prevailing note in <clneens­land politics is a spirit of national liberalism, and I do not see much in the Speech which would make me believe that the Premier has any right to call himself a national liberal. At any rate, I am of a very hopeful tempera­ment, and I dare say as the session goes on we shall have the Premier coming- down with an oc c1sional measure which will pro­mote the Lest interests of the country and people. I should like to have seen included in the Speech a Bill to establish true constitutional government by the establishment of the principle

of one adult one vote. I should like to have seen a Bill promised to reform and simplify the law. The hon. gentleman who represents the Fassi­fern electorate usually takes up the cudgels with regard to the simplification of the law, but he is not the only member who desires to see reform in that direction.

The PRE~IIER : He is the only one who under­stands it.

Mr. MA UG HAN: It is quite possible that the Premier himself sees many matters that might be amended in the interests of the com­munity. It would have gratified me also to have seen a measure promised to either end or mend the Upper House. I quite agree with the CouTier when it said recently-

The nominee Chamber is a survival of the past, and will have to be ere long reformed or blotted out of existence.

Another thing I should like to have seen included in the Speech-and it would not have been the first time that it had been referred to in the House by a gentleman who now occupies a high position on the Supreme Court bench-l refer to Sir Samuel Gri:ffith--is a measure to establish an eight-hour dav where practicable. I should also like to have seen reference made to the necessity of promoting and fostering the agricultural and mining industries by the construction of railways. Last year, at the t:ltate expeme, the Chief Engineer for Railwa.ys-I believe one of the most competent railway engineers south of the equator -was sent home by the Government to investigate light-line railways in America, ~urop<>, and other countries. I only hope the resmt of that gentle­man's mission may prove of very great utility to the State. I know that in the electorate I have the honour to represent, forty or fifty miles of light­line railways would be a tremendous benefit to the producers. That is also the case in the Wide Bay district, and in fact almost throughout the whole colony. Although reference is made in the Speech to the fact that it is necessary to assist our local authorities, I should like to have seen a little more emphasis put into that part of the Speech. I would also commend to the notice of the Premier that legislation is required in connection with the purification of liquor. I am not a drinker, but I know from my travels in the bush districts that terrible results accrue from the abominable liquor which is solO to the people. There ought tn he a very rigid law put into force in connection with that matter. The establish­ment of flour-mills on the same principle on which our sugar-mills are run should also recei.Ye the att~ntion of the Government. I was glad to hear the Premier say last night that if an appli­cation of that kind was made to the Government it would be considered, and I believe it will not be long before some application is made in that direction. These, with State batteries and agsist­ance to cyanide works, would have made a fairly comprehensive programme to work upon this 8ession. At any rate, we must not judge of what is going to be done from what is contained in the Speech. I only hope that the session mav be productive of good, and that we may co-operate together to bring about such legislation as will comtruct, not destruct. The State has undertaken many functions. It is the largest landowner, the largest receiver of rents, and the largest employer of labour. Jt also, I think, pays the best wages. It owns all the railways, the telegraphs, the llghthonses, the schools, and the asylums, and it controls our law courts. 'Ve admit that the functions of the State are wide now; what we on this &ide want is thnt they should be made still wider. If the Govern­ment feel that they cannot make them wider than at rresent, all 1 can say is that next year the country, if I am not very much mistaken, will

Address in ReplJJ. [4 A:t1GUST.] Address in ReplJJ. 145

return men to power who will. I appeal to the Government on behalf of the electorate I have the honour to represent, with Tennyson, to-

Ring out a slowly-dying cnuse. And ancient forms of party strife, Ring in the nobler modes of life, 1Yith sweeter manners, purer la'\VS.

That is all we want. And depend upon it, if the Premier makes up his mind to introduce legislation for the benefit of the people, he will find no more loyal supporters in the House than are to be found on this side. At any rate, I am pledged to support good laws; I am pledged to look after the interests of the people far more than I am pledged to the interests of party. We VI ant far more people about our politics and far less party.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS : Hear, hear l Mr. MOO RE: After the laboured oration­

the infliction, I may say-of the last speaker, what I have to say will be very short. As a new member I mast protest against new membero making long speeches. New members expect old members not to interrupt them, still, they should have the courtesy not to inflict Ion»; speeches on old members such as we have just listened to. The hon. member who h<is just sat down touched altogether on 100 or 105 measures which the Premier ought to have intro}uced. If he is going to speak for the same time-nearly four. hours-on every one of them when they are introduced we shall not be able to do any busi­ness at all. I have come here pledged to try and get some businessputthrough this session which the country very much wants. If the new member for the Burnett will condense his remarks more and talk more to the point he wil: be li,tened to with greater attention by everybody. What we want is not a great number of speeches. Speaking as a new member, I should say that what we want is more sense and less wind,

Mr. Sm : The wind is on that side and the sense on this.

Mr. MOORE: :Not at all. I followed thP hon. member at the start very cnrefully, but he went at such a pace all over the world that I really could not follow him. He started in Queensland, then flew away to England, and in a very short time we find him in Turkey. He does not give a new man a chance; he is simply wandering all over the globe. I do not think '1 should be doing my duty if I did not place on record here my sense of the loss the electorate of Murilla has sustained through the retirement of its late member, Sir Hugh Nelson; and I express the feeling of my electors when I say we wish him the same good health and prosperity in his new sphere of life as he had while he was our member. I also welcome the hon. member for Warwick, Mr. Byrnes, to the position occupied by our late member. Sir Hugh Nelson's time was mostly taken up with financial matters, and the result has been that less weighty matters have been allowed to stand over. \V e bok to the new Premier to adjust those matters. The Speech no doubt contains the promise of some very good measures, but there are some omitted which I expected to see included, jud~­ing from the remarks of the Premier in different parts of the colony. I still hope to see some of them submitted to us before the session clocleS. We are promised a Bill providing that any proposed change in the Constitution shall be sub­mitted to the electors. When the Premier brings that Bill in I hope he will give the electors a chance of expressing their opinion on the Upper House. I have no f<tult to find with some of the members of the Upper House, but there is no doubt that others of them do not seem to realise the duty they owe to the State in the matter of attendance. \V e ought to bring them more in tl)uch with the people and have them elected A

1898-L

second Chamber, to be of any value, must be able to correct slovenly-drawn measur''"• to check any hasty legislation that may be sprung upon the country before they have had time to con­sider it, and to amend, within its constitutional rights, any Bill that may be sent up to them. And to do those things effectually they must have the voice of the voters behind them, and nC>t be, as thev are now, the nominees of one man. Another measure I should like to see the Premier introduce this session-I •poke to him about it the other night-is with reference to our system of voting. 'l'here is a feeling in Murilla that our present system of voting is not so efficient as it ought to be, especially in cases of personation. In my opinion, th<tt is a m~tter that can be very easily remedied. After the presiding or returning officer has turned down the number, h•· should be allowed to put his initial along,;ide of it as well as on the voting­paper, and to perforate between it and the corner. That will allow the voter to tear otl' that portion and place it in the ballot-box, or in case of personation it will enable the returning officer to tear off the corners containing the numbers and give them to the judge and take oath th:tt he holds the papers corr;;Rp<mding to those numbers. If the Pr,-mier will introduce such an amend­ment this spssion he will have the assistance of all hon. members in pa "sing it into ]a\v, and in that w:ty our ballot system will be made as per­fect as any system in the world.

HoNOURABLE ME~IBERS: Hear, hear l Mr. KEltR: As I think hon. members are

getting full of the debate I shall be as brief a~ possible. I am not g"ing to sham and say I am glad to s.ee the new Premier in his present position, bccmse I think, like some other hon. members, that he onght to have gone to the country to see whether he had the country behind him and his party. I tra veiled a good deal in the Central district during the recess, and wherever I travelled I never met any person or persons who would avow thems Ives as supporters of the present Government, and I could come to no other C<mclusion than that the present Government do not pos' ess the confidence of the electors. If the Premier had wished to find out whether he had the confidence of the electors or not he would have appealed to them at once on accepting his present position, and if he anrl his party had been returned by a majority of the electors I woulcl have bowed to the will of the people, but nntil he and his party have appealed to the electors I fail to see that they have the confidence of the electors. Our leader spoke of the loss the whole world has sustained by the dea'h of tha.t veteran statesman, \V. E. Glad"tone. I have been a follower and admirer of \V. E. Gladstone since I was a boy, and I remember the leader of our party in 1874 fighting on behalf of one man who claili1s the honour of IJeing the first working man returned to the House of Cc>mmons. I remember our leader then fighting strenuously in support of the party lw! by W. K Gladstone. One thing that has struck me has been the number of persons that have done homage to the memory of IV. JiJ. Glaclstone, persons who hated him '~ith the greatest bitterness when he opposed them in politics. When he had the audacity, as it wa"l termed, to bring in what we in the portion of the old conwry from which I come believed to be just and right-Home Rule for lrehnd-all the Conserv<Ltives cried out that 1\,.lr. Glad~tone wanted to wreck and ruin the United Kingdom. I never knew the late Presi­dent of the Legislativ'l Council in active politics, and I only saw him a few times in the .Legisl~­tive Council Chamber, but I believe that in his day and generation he did what he considered to be best for the people he represented. I cannot

146 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply

say that I was an admirer of his politics, though I may have admired his straightforward m"nner -his manner of calling a spade a spade. I am sorry the Secretary for Public Instruction is not in his place, as I am going to deal to some extent with the department of which he is the head. I noticed before Parliament opened that a clepntation of--shall we call them influential?­persons in and around Brisbane waited on the Premier to bring under his notice the need of a university in Brisbane. It is all very well for the people centred in and around Brisbane to endeavour to get everything they possibly can in Brisbane, but they must remember that there is a large number of persons away back from the centres of population whose children are now without the means of a primary education. Before we as a young colony enter upon the establishment of a university, the Government should see that every man's child has an opportunity of receiving a primary education. I will just read an extract from the report of the General Inspector of the Education Department, published this year. He says-

In the statistics for the year I again note provisional scboo1s to the number of sixty-seven, which, on the warrant of their average attendance, ought to be State schools. I do not bring this matter forward or pre-,.s it unduly, so as [0 hamper the 2\Jinister or trespass violently on the financial resources ot' the country; but make­shifts should not be tolerated a day longer than can be helped, let alone perp~tuated; and I am bound to point out the immense impulse that would be imparted to the service by establishing State schools to supersede lal'gl3 provisional schools amid a settled population, and thus affording comfortable homes and larger duties for married men now serving as a~sistants, on a salary which was never c1esigned to be a salary for a m ·:rriecl man. Of these there are now a score on the list, and I know of others who wouid marry at once if they saw an open door to a home without stra.itened circumstauces. 'l'hat is very straight speaking. The Chief Inspector has put it very plainly to the head of his department, and through him to the Secretary for Public Instnwtion and the other mtmbers of the Government. When travelling about the \Vest ern portion of the colony we find townships where there is a fair number of children, and they are not provided even with a provisional school. \V e find in other places where there are State schools and provisional schools, and the school committees have made application to the, rlepartment for needed repairs to the schools or dwellings, even after the local subscriptions have been raised, the stereotyped answer to those npplications is that the applicnnts must wait until the commencement of the next finan­cial year, because the whole of the educa­tion vote h<:tB been expended long before the close of the current financial year. Considering that the education of our youth is a matter of great importance, and conPidering also that it is most important to people who are the pioneers of the colony, men who have left civilisation, as it were, to go back to the remote parts to form homes for themselves, and who are taxed over and above what they sub, cri be to the consolidated revenue to provide for the erection of provisional schools, I claim that the Secretary for Public Instruction is out of touch with the department. And I w<1nt to state on the floor of the House, that i£ the Premier is prepared to fonnd a university in Brisbane-and he promised the deputation that waited upon him that he would find the money for the purpose-he who knows a good deal of the wants of the people ought to be able to find means to educate the poor men's children who are out in the bush without the opportunities that the people in the large towns have; and if the Secretarv for Public Instruction is not prepared to administer that department as it should be administered, he should give him the run, and there are any amount wanting portfolios on the other side who

will be glad to take it. I would like to know H the money for fcunrling the university io to come out of the consolidated revenue ?

The PREMIER: Yes. Mr. KERR : Then I say it is manifestly un­

fair to those who have not an opporlunity of giving their children a primary education that they should be taxed to give a university educa­tion io people who are living in the large towns and have the advantages of the grammar schools. Then, again, if we had a university in Brisbane I claim that it would not be patronised in the way the Premier thinks it would be. I gather that from my knowledge of what takes place in the Central portion of the colony. There is a boys'and agirls'grammarschoolin Rockhampton, and yet many people in the Central portion of the colony, who could send their children to the Rockhampton grammar schools, send them to the Brisbane Grammar School because they can keep them as cheaply in .Brisb~tne as in Rockhampton, anrl they thmk they will have greater advantages in Brisbane than they woulrl have in Rockhampton. I contend that the same thing will take place here; that even if we•do found a university in Brisbane we shall be unable to compete with Sydney, because the university there hae been \vel! endowed, long established, and posseclses first-class ma~ters. If the people in my district wished to send their children to a university they would send them to Sydney in preference to Brisbar•e, and therefore I say that it will be unjust to tax all the people in this colony in order to establish a university in Brisbane.

The PREMIER: That is an argument against having any State schools at all in the colony.

Mr. KERR : It is not. The hon. member knows very well that no vote is passed in this House with so little critici;m as to its amount as the Education vote. Hon. members on thi," side have never ca,·illed at its amount, as we believe that every man's child should receive primary education, and if the Ministry do not see that that is received then they are failing in their duty, and in this matter they are favour­ing a few living in the large towns at the expense of those who are unable to obtain that primarv education. The hon. member for Croy­don, ..;ho has taken a great interest in this matter, has referrerl to the unjust difference that is made between provisional and State schools, and I was very glad that he did so. 'There is no reason why there should be any differ­ence, and I trust that the Premier will see that they are both placed on the same footing. The next matter that I wish to refer to is the establishment of wool sales in Brisbane. I have the honour of representing a very large pastoral district, although I do not claim, as my pre­decessor dirl, that I represent more sheep than any other hon. member of this Assembly. I may not, have the honour of representing the sheep in the electorate, but I do represent the people there, and I believe in expres"ing my opit•ion upon matters which may be brought forward, whether I stand or fall bv it. I understood that a bonus is to be offered" for the amount of wool disposed of by auction in Brisbane.

The PREli!IER: Not necessarily in Brisbrtne. The whole colony will be treated alike. It may be Rockhompton or Barcaldine.

Mr. KERR: That does away with one objec­tion, but I contend that there will have to be very strict regulations in connection with this bonus. Hon. members must know that very few of the les,ees of the,q sqnatt"ge" have very much say in the disposal of their wool. The financial institution' have a very great hold m·er them, and they will decide where the wool is to be sold, and by whom it is to be sold. It is very easy to arrange " gammon " sales in Bri~bane',

.drldress in Reply. [4 AUGUST.] A a dress in Reply. 147

Rockhampton, Townsville, or Normanton, and the wool may not really be sold at all ; but the bonus will be claimed all the sc:1me. I am utterly opposed to any bonus being ;:iven, and although I represent a squatting district I do not represent the squatters, but I represent the people living there who will have to find the money in whatever port in the colony the wool may be sold. I can tell the hon. member that very little wool will be sold locally in Barcaldine. There may be a few small men in the Central district who may be in a position to dispo~e of their wool as they think fit, but very few large squatters are in that position.

The PREMIER: The small wool-growers are the very men I want to help.

Mr. KERR: They are the very men you will not help.

The PREMIER : Yes, I shall. Mr. KERR: Amongst the Bills that are to be

introduced there is one to facilitate the rceovery of wages by workmen. I am very glad to see it, and I may tell the hon. member that if he is in earnest he will receive more support from this side of the House than from his own. The hon. member for South Brisbane referred to a Bill last night that has been asked for for a long time, but before I refer to it I m!ty say that I am very sorry that I was not in Barc',1ldine or Longreach when the Premier was there, a.,, if I had bc•en, I should have introduced a deputation of ;.hearers and bnsh workers, who wished to lay their griev­ances before him. I may say, en behalf of the people of the Barcoo, that the Premier was invited to Barcaldine by the public body there, and he received a right royal reception. Even the Labour men, who are considered to be very much off, received the Hon. T. J. Byrnes as Premier of the colony. \Vhatever shade of political opinion the Premier may hold, the l'eople who live in the portion of the colony I represent will always receive him in a respectful manner as long as he comes to them in !1, respect­ful manner. The Bill that I should have liked to have brought under the notice of the hon. gentle­man is one that is discus,ed freely and fully by bodies of men in the Western pHrt of the colony, and that is a Compulsory Conciliation alld Arbitmtion Bill. I listened to the Premier last night when the hon. member for South Brisbane was pointing out that it was not in time of war that we wanted to have this thing dealt with, but in the time of industrial peace. \Ve are having industrial peace at the present time as far as I know, and the people whom I have the honour of repre­senting are in earnest when they ask that this Bill should be placed on the statute· book. It would be the means of doing away with the disastrous strikes from which they have heen sufferers, and from which the employers have been sufferers in years gone by. Yet what do we find? That the Premier, who started out to be so democratic, fails to meet the wishes of the people, and makes no mention in the Governor's Speech of a measure that the people are asking for.

The PREMIER: Nobody asked me for it when I was out West.

Mr. KERR: I may say that a large numher of the men were out on the stations following their occupations as shearers, rouseabouts, and so forth when the Premier was at Barcaldine and Longreach, and I am \'ery sorry that I had not the opportunity of being at Lo'ngreach, so that I could have brought the matter under his notice. During the recess I travelled a good deal through the country and visited many stations, camping out with the men who were working there, so that I know a little of their circumstance~ and the sanitary arrangements of the stations where they worke '1. I had the privilege on that

occasion of visiting two stations in the Barcoo electorate that I had never had the opportunity of visiting before, and I challenge the managers or Je,~ees of those stations to contra­dict the statements I am n.bout to make with regard to the accommodation their workmen had to put up with. I visited Albilbah Station, which is about thirty miles from Isisford, and I say that the conditions under which the shearers and ronseabout' had to partake of their meals at that place were such as would not be permitted in any portion of the colony where kanakas are employed. If the Government take such an interest in kanakas, the men who are brought from the islands, why should they not take greater interest in the men of their own colour, of their own race, many of whom are natives of the colony, while othnrs of them have been imported into the colony at the country's expense? I claim that it is the duty of the Government to protect the health and look a iter the interests of the workers of the colony as much as it is tll~ir duty to protect the interests of others and look after law and order. I chanced to arrive at Albilbah station about knocking-off time, and I look:d round to see if I could find the huts in which the men slept, bnt I could see no huts. I saw a slab shed, covered with iron, where the men had their meal~, anrl they then had their meals in that shed for the first time since Albilbah station was taken up. The shed had never previously been u-.ed for that purpose, owing to a dispute between the contractor, who erected it many years ago, and the le,sees. The contractor never having be8n paid for it, the les~eos were unahle to use it ae long as the con­tractor liverl. Albilhah station is managed by a native of the colony, a mRn who is well known on the Darling Downs, and it is claimed that it is economically managed.

The PREl!IER: It ruined the owner of it. l\Ir. Dt:NSl<'ORD: The interest ruined him. Mr. KEEn : It ruined the owner of it, be­

cause of bad manag·ement. As the junior mem­ber for Charter" Towers interjects, it was largely the interest he had to pay that ruined the owne;r; he entered into speculation, borrowed too much money, tried to grasp ton much, and he had to mortgage his station, and then he went down. Albilbah is a goo<1 sheep station, and though the accommodation there is not fit for kanakas, yet white men have to put up with it. \Vhat I ask for, and what the men whom l have the honcur to represent, and the men with whom I travelled ask, is that the Premier should bring in a similar Bill to that which has been introduced into New Zealand Parliament, which will ensure th,;t proper >tccommodatinn shall be pro­vided for she,,rers and others working on stations, so that they shall not have t" put up with accon,modation which has a deba~ing effect, and lower-, men to the level of l easts. I also visrted another station, and met about seventy-five men there. I shnuB just like some of the hon. members of this House to have to camp in the hut at that station the night I camped there, with half a blanket, as some of the men had to do. I claim that a law should be placed on the statute­book enacting that proper acccommodation shall be provided for shearers and others working on stations, and that inspectors shall be appointed who sh ,]] be above the influence of the squatters and the local authorities, who shall report on the accJrmnodation provided, '1nd have lJOWer to take action in the event of finding it insufficient I want to touch a little uuon the sanitary arrange­ments on some of those stations. 'l'hio is a matter which I brought under the notice of thA late Home Secretary, Sir Horace Tozer, last session. If the hospital returns are examined it wrll be found that there are great numbers of cases of

148 Address in Repl'lf. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

men suffering from typhoid fever who have con­tracted that disease on several of these stations owing to the defective sanitary arrangements. If the Premier wants to pass legislation which will benefit the masses and not the classes, he will bring in a Bill to provide for the inspe:Jtion of shearers' accommodation and the sanitary arrangements on stations. Any Ministry which passed a Bill similar to that passed in New Zea­land would receive the thanks of a large propor­tion of the people of the colony. 'Ne are promised a Bill requiring companies carrying on the business of fire and life insurance in Queens­land to give standing security for the payment of claims made against them. Now, that is not what the people of Queensland want. They want State insurance.

The PREMIER: We have State life insurance. Mr. KERR: We have an excellent example

of what State life insurance has done in l'i:ew Zealand.

Mr. LEAHY: Why don't you go and live there if it is so good?

Mr. KEltR: Apparently there is not room for the hon. member for Bdloo and myself here. In New Zealand State insurance has been most successful. The cost of management is very little more than that of the "A.M.P." Society, although the operations are restricted to New Zealand, whilst the" A.JU.P." Society does busi­ness all over Australia. If the experience of New Zealand has been so satisfactory, it is time for Qu(emland to follow the example. Then we are to have a Bill to extend the operations of the Rabbit Boards Act. Poor bunny is not having a happy time of it! If there is one Bill that I regret having supported since I entered this House, it is the Bill to give extensions of leases in return for rabbit fencing. In my travels around I have seen the effects oft hat Bill. I have seen large squattages locked up for a number of years, where persons are clamouring to get on the land. Last year was a recJrd year in the amount of land taken up a, grazing farms and grazing homesteads, hut, if these extensions ,,f lease bad not been granted, there would have been af>tr greater number of theseseleetions taken up. There would have been a larger number of people settled on our lands ; the revenue from both Customs and railways would have largely increased, and the colony would have been in a better financial position than it is to-day. We are also promised a Bill to amend the Elections Act. I do not know what furm the amendment will tak<>, hut I know that the last amending Bill, which was considered by some hon. members a great improvemer,t on the previous law, has proved, as I stated on the floor of this House it would prove, a measure to enable voters' names to be got off the rolls rather than a measure to emtble them to get on the rolls. I trust the Bill which is promised will not be in the form of the instructions which have been issued from time to time by the "Political Ass" Association in Brisbane to the various electoral registrars and justices of the peace throughout the colony. Instructions ha.ve been issued from the office of that association to every justice of the peace in the electorates repre­sented.by Labour m em berP, to the effect that they are to look after the roll3 at the annual revision courts, and to purge the rolls. 'l'he Hon. JVlr. Bulcock is the secretary of that association-a member of the Upper House, who is suppo;ed to be dead in the matter of politics-but he is using the whole of his influence in endeavouring to work the whole of the Government officials, because there is no getting a way from the fact that the electoral registrars receive instructions from that gentleman. If the amending Bill is to be a further help to that gentleman to se11d out such instructions, then 1 say we do not want any

more amendments of the electoral law at. ml; but if the object of the Bill is to enable every man who is entitled to be enrolled to get his name on the electoral roll, then by all means let us have it. No one can get away from the fact that there are a large number of men in the colony who are deliberately kept off the electoral rolls by the agents of that political association. Men who are holding high positions and sitting on the Treasury benches are connected with that association, and I say that in all fairness to others who are opposed to them in politics they should not allow their officer to send out instruc­tions and to communicate with justices of the peace with a view of packing the benches at the annual revision courts held in the electorates represented by Labour members.

Mr. BA1'TERSBY : What about the Trades Hall association?

Mr. KERR: I am quite prepared to bear out what I say, th.:tt the benches are packed on every occasion that the annual revision courts are held. If the amendment of the Elections Act is to remedy that, we on this side will be delighted with it., but if the object is to keep men off the roll who are entitled to be on it, thon the amend. ment shall have all the strenuous opposition which this side of the House can give it. There are several olher matters I wish to speak about, but as other members desire to speak to-night, I will not further occupy the attention of the House. I shall have an opportunity on the I<'inancial Statement of ventilating a number of griev­ances under which my electorate is labour­iug. I will simply take this opportunity of saying that I am certain any measures that may be brought in which will be for the benefit of the masses of the people will be supported on this side of the House. vVe are not here in support of men ; we are here to support measures ; and whoever brings in the measures and endeavours to place them on the statute-book, if we believe that those measures are for the benefit and wElfare of the people whom we represent-for the benefit of the masses and not the classes-we will support them. But if measures are brought in which we bPJim·e are not for the benefit of the people, they will receive the most strenuous opposition that this party can give them. I am certain of this, that we at least hn,ve the people of the colony behind us, when we say we are fighting for the welfare of those who sent ns here.

Mr. SMITH : I deprecate long speeches, alt,hough they are pardonable in young members. vVhPn I was a young member I was noted for making long and tedious speeches, but I have learned that it is a mistake. I believe if hon. members would only endeavour to condense their observation", and lay them clearly and succinctly before the House, they would h~ve much m?re force and influence than long-wmded, rambhng statements. Much has been said with regard to the reconstruction of the Ministry. I note that my hon. friend; the hon. member for Oxley, is very much concerned about the reconstruction of the Government. Ithink that this colony should be proud that one of her sons has attained to the high position of Prime Minister ; it is an honour to all Queenslanders, and although we may differ from one another in politics, yet I think we may all join in offering congratulations to the Premier on his accession to office. A great deal has been r,aid about the visit of the Premier to the North, and 8ome have actually gone "o far as to find fault with him for going through the Northern and Central districts before the House met. To my mind that is part of the duty of Ministers, and especially of. the head of the .Go~ernme_nt, and ins lead of bemg blamed for domg It, I thmk it rPdounds to the credit of the Premier that he should go to the trouble of visiting the o1,1tl,y·ing

Llddress in Reply. [4 AUGUST.] Llddress in Reply. 149

parts of the colony, and become as much in touch with the inhabitants as possible. It gives the people an opportunity of letting the head of the Government know what their grievances are, and after all that is a great privilege. I con­gratulate the Secret1ry for Rail ways on his acces:lion to office. Even those who differ with that hon. gentleman in politics will see that he has been appointed because he ably repre­H•nts one of the three great divisions of the colony. I remember that the hon. gentleman was offered a portfolio five or six years ago, but he declined it on principle. He declined it because he was a separationist, and he could not enter a Cabinet which he considered had anti­separation tendencies. Another theory which is advanced, and which 1 do not at all agree with, is that the Prime Minister should appoint his Ministers because they are of exactly the same way of thinking. Such an absurd idea as that only requires to be repeated to show its absurdity. Men do not lose their individuality because they become Ministers of the Crown, and if one Minister holds views which are entirely different to those of the rest of the Cabinet, it does not follow that he is able to carry out his ideas. I should think the power that is in the Ministry would put anything of that kind out of thequestion. The majority rules there, just as it rules in this House. Although we may differ from the Secre­tary for Railways in politics, he has the courage of his opinions, and we all knoiV that he is an upright, honest, honourable, and straightforward gentleman. The Secretary for Agriculture is also to be congratulated on his accession to the Ministry His knowledge of agriculture, espe" cially of the sugar industry, will be of great value to the Government with which he is associated. No one will dispute that the hon. gentleman is thoroughly acquainted with that industry, and naturally that knowledge will be of service in regard to general agriculture. Altogether, the Premier may be congratulated on the pe1•sonnel of his Ministry. Of course, the two younger onPs have to win their spurs yet­they have to show whether they are col'npetent to fill the position or n,Jt-but I have every confidence that they will do so with great success. The hon. member for Oxley said that the Premier, on his Northern tour, made many promises. I accompanied that hon. gentleman over a considerable part of the Northern portion of the colony, and was present at the functions which took place at the large centres which he visited, and I took particular notice that he made no promises. Of course when I say promises I do not mean promises of a twopenny­halfpenny nature, but promises of any import­ance.

Mr. GLASSEY: Tell us something about that railway to the 17-mile peg.

Mr. SMITH: The bon. member seems veTy anxious about that railway. I believe he is strongly in fa vonr of it, and I am sure that if I should have occasion to take any action in regard to it the hon. member will be one of my strongest supporters. The hon. member for Bundaberg has laboured very hard to show that the CJolony is not in a prosperous condition. I very closely followed the hon. member, and the impression left on my mind was that his figures proved exactly the opposite of what he intended them to do-namely, that the colony was considerably advancing year by year. 'l'he hon. member's figures referred to the years 1888 to 1890. I will carry them on to 1897. F'rom the agricultural returns I find that in 1888 there were 192,000 acres under cro],, while in 1897 there were 371,000 acres under crop. The area of land under cultivation is about as good a criterion as we could have of the prosperity of the residents of the colony. Then again in 1888

the quantity of wheat grown in the colony was 8,000 bushels. In 1897 it was over 1,000,000. These figures were quoted by the Secretary for Agriculture, so that I need not go into any further details. Cotton, tobacco, and rice have decreased certainly, but with those exceptions _I believe I am right in saying that generally all our acYricultural products have increased. The Spee~h refers to defence, and I think we all admit that the best plan to ensure peace is to be prepan•d for W<W. The Premier gave the key to the situation when he said we ought to give our attention to that portion of defence which requires scientific knowledge, which cannot be attained in a week, or :t month, or even a much longer period. Gunnery and other similar matters take a longtime to study. Our first care should, of course, be to the naval defence nf our shores, and I consider that great attention should be paid to educating our youths in naval warfare. Our n"-YY is our first line of defence, and if ever we are attacked it will be our navy that will be the fi 'Rt to "o us service. Although the great ques­tion of federation is mentioned in the Speech, I would say that in mv opinion WJ have not risen to the occasion. I fail to see why this colony should Jag behind and play a waiting game. If we believe that federation is ft good thing for the colonies in general, if we belie\"8 tha,t the union of the c0lonies of Australia is a good thing, why should Queensland not be in it? Why should Queensland Jag behind and wait for another colony totaketheinitiative? Why should we not lend our assistance to t be other colonies in carrying out this great movement? I think we committed a grave error of policy in not joining with the other colonies, and, if necessary, taking the lead, because I believe Queensland has as much to gain by federa­tion as any of the colonies. vV e took the lead in 18B1, and we then scored a red mark, but since then we have fallen from grace. Qaeensland, instead of being one of the last colonies to join, should have been among"t the first, and should have kept up the reputation gained in 1891.

The TREASURER; Why did you vote against the Bill last year?

Mr. SMITH: I did so because the Govern­ment were half-hearted in the matter. If the Government had been enthustastic in promoting this great movement, then there would have been no necessity for me to vote as I did. I voted against it because the Premier of the day would not concede the least thing to gratify those who wn,nted the Bill amended in a certain way. We wanted the three didsions of the colony represented by their own residents, and the Premier would not agree to that. I pointed out at the time that if he would pledge the Ministry to that course the l<'eCieration Bill would be carried, but he would not pledge the Ministry, and the Bill was lost. At that time J sounded a warning note, and told the Premier that if he would grant that small concession the Bill would be carried.

The TREASURER: You were entirely to blame. Mr. SMITH : I do not believe there wa.s much

in it, because the Government had not their heart in it at the time. I would like to suggest this with regard to federation, and I am sure that we have state;men here well able to carry cut the idea: I suggest that in any system of federation that may be adopted the Southern division of the colony sl-tould join the federation, leaving the other two divisions as Helf-governing territories to come into the federation at a later date when their polition would warrant them in doing so. If that course were adopted, Qneensland would have three times the voting power she would have if she entered the federation as one colony. I am a separationist. I believe this colony is large

150 .Address in Repl;y. [ASSEMBLY.] .Address in Repl;y.

enough to be divided into three, and I believe it would conduce more to freedom and good government if the States were smaller, and the federation would be otronger. With regard to immigration, I have always thought that if we could get the right class of irumigrants, that would be the best thing for the colony. \Ve have a large colony, rich in resources, and the few people here have done wonders in developing those resources so far; btlt instead of having 500,000 people here we should have 5,000,000 or G,OOO,OOO people. I do not believe in importing pauper immigrants ; my idea is that we should induce people to come here with sufficient money to go on the land and make it productive. If we can get that class we shall won have a yeoman population which will make this colony one of the first in the group. With re­gard to the New Guinea concession, I think a great mistake was made in allowing the Ordinance to pass without giving the other colonies an opportunity of criticising it. I consider that the other contributing colonies had an equal right with Queensland, though I suppose it is necessary that Queensland, being the nearest to the Possession, should have the control in ma.t.t.ers of administration. \Ve are told that this concession was a matter of ordinary administra­tion. \Vho ever heard of a matter of ordinary adu1iui~Lration requiring an extraordinary Ordinance? Yet that was what this conces;;ion required. I think the manner in whic'n the thing was done was discreditable, and it is much to be regretted that the other contributing colonies wete not consulted. It is said that the Ordinance has not yet received the Royal assent, and I hope it never will. I hope that the Government, who seem to have taken the matter up very wermly, will oppose it to the utmost. It would kill prospecting iu New Guine:.. There would be no such thing as a gold rush to New Guinea, because one of the prov;sions of the Ordinance is that all land must be first offered to the syndicate. Xo lll'ltter who discovers gold there the land must be first offered to the syndicate; if they refuse it, the discoverer.s may get it, but if thP syndicate chooses they can collar the discovered field. It is not giving a fair opportunity to all, and is not a fair way of dealing with the Possession. I notice that the scheme first proposed for the Pacific cable has not been adopted, and I think it a great mis, fortune to this colony that it has not been adopted. I donotknowthatany other scheme which would allow of th;, cable touching other than British territory would be of much advantage, and it would certainly be disadvantageous from a strategic point of view. If the original scheme could be carried out l believe thH colony, the hom•' country, and Canada should join in the expense, and it wonld be of very great ad vantage to the l~mpire. With regard to the Sugar Works liuarantee Act and the Lands Purchase Act I think both those measures have been of very great :.~cl vantage. The Agricultural Lands Pur­chase Act ho,s paid it< way. Ont of 87,000 acres purchased almost the whr,!e has been disposed of without loss. If hon. members take notice of the agricultural produce coming into the Roma­street Station and lhe agricultural implements going np country they will have some idea of the present progress of ngricu!Gnre on the Do~>ns. Nine-tenths of the country purchased has been selected, a.nd that is a· very great deal, fur we Ci\11Ilot expect, even in the most favoured dbtricts of the colony, to get every acre of land good. The sugar crop this ye:tr will be the record crop I believe. The Speech says that thP sugctr-growers will have to find a market for their product: ontside, and I think the Gnvern­lllent shoul<! give every as3ietance in marketing such a product. The bounty system is working

against us immensely, of course, and unless that system can be modified or done away with altogether I feel that the sugar industry will not prosper :ts it ought. The countries of the old world have come to an agreement that the bounties should go. I think, with the exception of France and Russia, they are favourable to their extinction. The bounties are collected from the people who grow sugar themselves and are afterwards paid back to them again, so that the countries in which the sugar bounties are in force would not lose much by abolishing them and their abolition would be a boon to countries growing cane sugar. I see that wool sales are to he established in the colony, and that is a forwttrd step. There is no reason why we should not have wool sales in our midst instead of sending our wool to Sydney to be sold. I hope the movement to find fresh markets for our frozen meat will be successful. No doubt our frozen meat industry is one of the most important we have. The pastoral industry has suffered greatly from local causes-tieks in one place and drought in another-until it has almost gone down under them. The Government here say they are inclined to assist in finding fresh markets for our meat.

Mr. HooLAN : Where is the market you propose?

Mr. SMITH : In different parts of the world. There is a market in London now, but it appears it does not pay sufficiently. We want to find other markets, and I expect we shall be able to find them in the other colonies. I hope the movement to send chilled meat to the other coloni• ' will be succeHsful. The Speech says that a comprehensive Mining Bill will be sub­mitted to ns, and I think that such a Bill is very necessary indeed. During the past year the mines of this colony have produced more gold than ever they did before, and I think next year will he a record year. \Ve are very nearly up to Victoria in gold production, and I hope that next year we shall surpass her. This is an industry which has done a great deal for the colony. It has come to its assistance, and got it out of difficulties on more than one occasion, and now that it is in a fair way of prosperity I think a new law is necessary. The Speech refers to a fast mail service. and I think the intention of the Government ·has been misunderstood. It is intended that the mails shall be taken by train, not to Gladstone, but to Broadmount., where they will he put on board the steamer and taken on to theN orthern towns. The steamer will be dis­charging her cargo while the mails are on their V< ay from Brisbane, so that she will be ready for them when thev arrive. Then on the return trip the mails will be put ashorA at Broadmount and brought to Brisbane by the train, leaving the steamer to discharge her cargo and take in her return c.ugo before she resumes her voyage South. There will be no time lost in taking in or discharging cargo, and I think it is well that hon. membas should know that. It has been suggested that it would not be right for the Government to bring down a rn,ilway policy in the last session of the Parliament, but 1 do not see why we should' stand still just because this is the last se~sion, and I had some hopes from what I read in the Rpeech tbat some lines will be proposed. I see in the Speech that the public works that have been sanctioned by Parliament are now in pro­grese, and that such other works as are necessary or immediately required will be duly submitted. Now, I hold that there is a work which is abso­lutely nPcessary, and the delay in connection "it.h which entails a considerable loss to our W<stern 1 roducers every year. I refer to the Bowen railway, and I think it is a misfortune to the colony that it has not been alr<ady proceeded with. The sooner it is constructed the better for

.Address i1~ Reply. [4 AuGusT.] .Address in Reply. 151

the meat industry and for theW estern producers, who are losing about 5s. per head upon all their cattle that are slaughtered at Bowen. The sum lnst to them annually is from .£5,000 to .£10,000, and therefore I trust that the Government will look upon this as a special work and will not delay it any longer from any sentimental reasons. I hold that the colony is on the upward grade, and all the arguments used by the hon. member for Bundaberg to show that it is on the down­ward g~ade have had the very opposite effect. The ordmary reader of Hansard will see that the figures quoted hy the hon. member prove the very contrary to his contention-that the colony is not progressing. \Ve should give the colony a show, and if it is progressing why should we be so jealous as to say it is not? I am glad the colony is progressing and hope it will continue to do so. I did not intend to occupy so much time, but there were some salient points in the Speech I wished to touch upon, and I now thank hon. members for the attentwn which they have given me.

Mr. STEW ART: Like the hon. member who !Jreceded me I shall endeavour to be as brief as po~sible. Several hon. members who have snoken have complimented the Premier upon his acces­sion to the high office he now holds, but I do not think it is at all necessary for me to follow their example. I think the fact that the hon. gentle­man has attained so early in life the summit of his ambition is more to him than any congra­tulations that can be offered from eithAr this or the other side of the House. But yet, when all is said that can be said, the position has fallen to the hon. member as of right. He was the heir-at-law, if I may so term it, to the office. He is the oldest member of the Ministry, and has been most closely connected with the previous pilots of the "continuous Ministry" in all its tortuous windings. That being the case, I think it i~ only natural that, now the last man has been provided for, the hon. gentleman should succeed to his present position. As usual, the Governor's Spe<Jch tells ns that the colony is prosperous; that it has turned the corner, and that things are very mnch better than they have been for a number of years. I think anyone will admit that we are in a better !JOsition than we were some years ago. If we were not, I do not know what our present position would be. Those of us who can look back to the dark vears of the colony, when it was in financial difficultie' owing to the misconduct of members of the Government, will not be surprised to know that it now stands in a better position th•m it did then. If it did not, the people would not be able to live at all. When we consider that we have had several excellent seasons, and that onr products of gold, wool, beef, mutton, sugar, and butter have been continually increasing, there is every reason to come to the conclusion that the colony, as a colony, is in a fairly prosperous condition. I have no doubt that from the point of view of the absentee and the financial institutions which are so largely interested in Queensland, the colony is in a most prosperous condition indeed. I have gone somewhat minutely into the matter and I find that Queensland gives the highest return of any of the Australian colonies, and I believe the Anstral~an colonies give a greater return in the way of rnterest on the capital invested in it than any group of countries in the wodd. That is the position so far as the investing absentee is concerned.. J?ut what is the position of the people who hve m the colony? That I take it, is what more immediately concerns t~s here to­night. We are sent here, not to look after the interests of absentee investors, but to look after the mterests of the people who have cast their fortunes in the colony, who have, so to speak,

nailed their colours to the colony, many of whom have been born in the colony and will die in it, and a large number of whomhavecome here from choice and intend to remain here. Looking at it from that aspect, what do we find? Do we find that the workers of the colony are sharing in this increased prosperity? \V e are putting out more gold per man than has ever been done in the history of the colony before. I ask the mining represensatives to say whether the miners are getting higher wages or not? vV e are putting out more wool, more beef, and more mutton-we are sending out of the colony every­thing that we produce in larger quantities than ever before. Are the men who assist to produce those materials sharing in thi> increased pros­perity, or is the opposite the cas~? If they are sharing in it, if their wages are h1gher than they used to be, if they are enjoying more of the com­forts of life than they were wont to do, if their social and industrial p~sition is superior to what it was some years ago, then I at once admit that the people of the colony are more prosperous than they ha,-e been. But instead of that, we find that everywhere wages are going down.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: No. Mr. STEW ART: In every occupation in the

colony wages are continu!'l~y going down. I shall take the Central divlS!on, the part of the colony with which I am hest acquainted. Some few years ago at Lake's Creek the average wage for a labouring man was £1 7s. 6d. per week and his food ; now the average wage is about 5s. per week less.

The SECRETARY FOR HAlLWAYS : The industry is not so prosperous now as it was then.

Mr. STEW ART: I am simply pointing out that our productions per head are greater now than they ever were before, and that the share received by the working man is less than it ever was before. That is the position I have taken up, and I am endeavouring to prove it. Now, take the agricultural labourer. If a farmer in the Central division !Jays his labourer anything from 12s. (id. to 15s. a week he imagin<•q that he has bought him body and soul. A ploughman gets from .£1 to .£15s. a wee!c. I believe that the farmers on the Darling Downs-that exceedingly prosperous place-believe that from 5s. to 10s. and 12s. a week is really handsome compensation for any labourer.

Mr. McGAHAN: That is not trne. Mr. STEW ART: Will the hon. member tell

me what is the average wage on the Downs? The hon. member for Oxley said the other night that he would give good men, not men who did not know their business, but men thoroughly acquainted with farming, from 14s. to 15s. per week. I know that that is about the average wage paid on the Darling Downs, and I do not care what the hon. member for Cunningham may say. I am not speaking of individual cases; I am simply taking the average wage, and I say that the average wage on the Downs is not more than 10s. per week with food.

Mr. McGAHAN: It is not true. Mr. STEW ART: Then if we go into the sugar

diotricts we find that in the off se"son ploughmen and ordinary labourers are pa1d from 12s. Gd. to 15s. per week on an average, while in the crush­in" season-which mav be termed their hanest ti;;;e-they get from .£1 to £1 2s. per week and their food. \V here food is nnt given, as is the case in some plac2s, they get frum 4s. 6d. to 5s. 6d. per day. Then if we ~o to Maryborough we find that the avero,g@ wage there for men work­ing in sawmills is hetween 4s. and 5s. a day. In the foundries I believe it is about 5s. per day. I notice that the hon. member for Maryborough is listening to me, and if I atn wrong he can correct me.

Mr. ANNEAR : What work?

152 Address in Rep(y. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in .Reply.

Mr. STEW ART : I say the average wage for labouring men is 5s. per day.

Mr. ANNEAR: They are nearly all mechanics who are employed there.

Mr. STEW'AHT: ButthereareHome labourers, and even the mechanicn do not get as high a wage as they ought to get. But I am talking more I articnlarly about the wages of labouring men, and you will find, no matter what ~epartment of industry you turn your attentiOn to, that the wages paid now are lower than they have been for a number of years. If you go to any business man and ask him what is the c9ndition of trade now as compared with what rt was some years ago, he will tell you at once that the working men of the colony a1·e earn­ing very much less than they used to do, and as a consequence they are unable to spend us much as they did formerly. Then turn to our imports, and look at the quantity of beer and spirits con­sumed. I find that in 1888, when we bad 100,000 less people in the colony than we ha\E' to-day, there was as much beer and spirits and liquors of that kind drunk as there is to-day.

Mr. LEAHY: They are improving morally. The SECHETARY ~'OR AGRICULTURE: A very

good thing, too. Mr. STEW ART: Of course hon. members

will say that the people of the country are becoming more > •her. I shonld be delighted if I thought that such was the C."-W, bnt 1 believe that the people of Austmlia would drink as freely to-day DS they did ten years ago if they had thB same money to spend. Then if we take woollen geods and other articles that' we do not manufactnre in the clllony, we find that ten years ago the people paid awav more monev for thobe articles than they do to-day. Ail these facts taken together seem to prove con­clusi' ely that the working men of the colony are not sharing as they ought to do in the increa~ed prosperity. If the pro"perity is as general as it is claimed to be, how is it that we find thR pastoralish; clamouring for reduced rent~? \Ve find the farmers calling out for cheap lab >nr ; we find the mining investors sayino· that they cannot carry on their business profitably unless they get larger areas and lighter labour con­ditions. How is it that the people m every one of these industries-if they are so prosperous­are continually clamouring for concessions which will give them higher interest? It shows con­clusively to me that we are governed--as I have often said before, both here and outside­not in the interests of the people who live in the colony, but in the interests of ab­sentee investors. I conceive it to be our duty to look first to the interestR of thA people who are here, and then to see that those wbo invest their money here nre fairly dealt by. The Premier, when speaking, dealt somewhat shortly with the question of defence. vVe are all agreed that it is neces~·uy that our d<>fenceg ,honld Le put in a proper condition. It is a truism to sav that the best way to maintain peace is to be prepared for war, but the Go,·erninent are g-oing npon wrong lines altogether. Ddence ·is a question of federal importance. Single colonies are unable of themselves to deal effectively with the question of the defence of Australia, and the need for defence is the chief reason why we should hurry the fuderation of the colonies l!.S much as possible. I am sorry to see that the Government still maintain their luke­WMm attitude towards this most import­ant question. There, is tno much shilly­shally about it. I \~as rather surpd"ed to find, _on. l<;oking aver the ,Spe~ch, the number of s_omal•stw, or,,rathP:r, semJ-somalistic, proposals winch are contamed 111 it. Indeed, when 1 take that into consideration, I am not snrprised that the Secretary for Public Instruction is Hick. I

am sure it must have been a terrible shock to an hon. member with such individualistic tenden­cies such as he has to bump up against some of the proposals contained in the Governor's Speech. I am rather surprised that the Secretary far Railways appears to he so well, and also that the Secretary for Agriculture keeps his head above water under these very depressing circumstances. But I do not think they have much cause to be afraid. I do not believe very much will come of some of the proposals that we have in the Speech.

Mr. GLASSEY: Mere fireworks. :Mr. STEW ART: They are mere fireworks,

mere electioneering, mere baits to catch votes at the coming elections.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Which of them?

Mr. STEW ART : Most of them. 'There is the steamship proposal, for one. I do not believe that will eventuate. I have not the slightest doubt that the different steamship com­panies are laughing up their sleeves at the bluster of the Government in this connection. How­ever, if the Government are courageous and wise enough to go on with this proposal, they will not have a more active supporter than myself, and I am sure every member of this party will gladly render them all the assistance possible. Then there is cheap money for farmers. Why, if we are to believe ban. members opposite, the farmers, instead of borrowing money, will be lending it. I think the Treasurer said that the banks were getting more money now than they knew what to do with. I am very~lad to hear that that is the case, and that the investing portion of the colonis~s are so prosperous that they have a surplus to pnt in thP banks. I can aR8ure the hon. gentleman that very little of that money comcfl from the industrial section of the people. But if the Government see fit to bring in the Hystem which is in wgne in South Australia, New Zealand, and Victoria, the members on this side will give them every assistance they can. There i" also a propo,al for a change of the Constitution. I would very much like to know what this change is to be. The Speech says that it is to be referred to the people-that is, we are to have an application of the principle of the referendum. I have always been an advocate of the referendum, but I do not exactly under­stand how it is to be applied in this particular instance. It would have been more satis­factory to the House if some definite infor­mation had been given as to how the refer­endum is to be taken. vV e all know perfectly well that, not only thePrem1er, but every member of the Ministry is opposed ~~ ano:thing in the shape of electoral reform. I he tlecretary for Railways has declared that he will die opposing any such reform. I have no desire to see the hon. gentleman dead physically-! suppose he meant that he would die politically lighting against electoral reform, and I can assure him th,,t if he still remains of that mind his political death is not very far distant. We have the Secretary for Agriculture also a very bitter opponent of "'nything in the way of electoral reform. I do not know whether other ban. gentlem: n who are sit'ing opposite are sa very ardent in their oppo>ition to electoral reform or not ; but these hon. gentleman have expressed their views on various occasion,, anJ that being the case I gather that the Ministry as a whole is opposed to anything in the snape of electc.ral reform. Now statesmen who hold responsible positions usually have the courage of their convictions. If the Ministry is opposed to electoral reform, they ought to say so. They on~ht to come fo;w<>rd and say, "vVe do not believe the colony can he governed decently if our electoral laws are altered, and we are not

Address in Reply. [4 AUGUST.] ·Address in Repl.y. 153

going to alter them." But it appears to me that the gentlemen who sit on the Ministerial bench­and the Premier most of all-have neither c0n­victions or courage. They do not care two straws what the electoral laws are if they are permitted to r<;main in their present position. All that they care about i:,; to hold office at any cost. I would like to ask Ministers whether, if this referendum i;; taken and the people say that they desire the electoral laws to be altered, they will take it as a vote of no con­fidence, and resign their positions, or whether they will go on as they have been going. I think the more manly and more statesmttnlike way for them to deal with this question is to say distinctly what their position is, and to stand or fall by that before the country. I was rather surprised to hear one member for the Central divi~ion, Mr. Corfield, tell us that separation was dead. It is a most remarkable fact if separation is dead that we have no less than four Ministers of the Crown who are pledged separationists. If you ask the Secretary for Railways whether separation is dead he will say "No." If you ask the Treasurer you will get the same reply. If you ask the Secretary for Public Instruction he will say likewise, and if you ask the Secretary for Agriculture he will "ay ditto. It seems to me to be a most extraordinary thing that in a Ministry which has declared itself to be absolutely hostile to separation we should have four members who are pledged separationists. "Why, that is about the only question upon which the Premier has definitely declared himself. Do these hon. gentlemen think they are helping separation by remaining in a Ministry which is absolutely hostile tu separa­tion, or have they lost all hope and faith in the question and gone over to the enemy? What is their position? We ought to have some definite information from them on that point. Does the Secretary for Railways think he is helping separation by joining an anti-s~para­tion Ministry? What would my constituents think of me if I were to join a black labour Government? Would they say that I had joined that Government in the hope of con­verting it to my way of thinking, or would they not rather come to the conclusion that the black labour Government had caused me to abandon my position by calling me to be one of its members? I think that would be the more reasonable conclusion. My honest belief is that those gentlemen who continue to hold office in an anti-separa.tio? G?vernment are very luke· warm separatwmsts mdeed. But I can assure you that the question of separation is not by any means dead. And I must say that I am surprised that a gentleman like the Premier, a gentleman of hi~ education, intelligence, wide reading, and general culture, should come to such an unstatesmanlike con­clusion as he has done on this question. He says that Queensland must be maintained one and indivisible. What does all the experience of the past show so far as Australia. is concerned? Does not this fact stand out above all other facts -that the more you divide and subdivide, the more prosperous does the community become? \Vhat has given Australia its position as one of the nations of the earth, but the fact that it has been divided and subdivided? If Austmlia had continued to be one country, governed from one city, does anyone imagine that it would have prospered as it has done; that its population would have increased as it has done ; that its development of wealth and its exports would have been as great as they are; that it would have taken the position it has taken amongst the communities of the world·? I do not think so. This policy of sub­division has p;roved itself to have been so success-

ful in the past, that the only conclusion we can come to is that it mm1t be successful in the future. If we take the analogy of a sheep run, we can come to no other conclusion than that the more the continent is divided for the purposes of local government the more rapid will its development be. We find that when some of the Western sheep runs have been divided, the product of wool on the resumed half of the run is as great as it previously was on the whole run. Does that not show that in the smaller area the management is better? I think the same prin­ciple applies to the government of Queensland. I am extremely sorry that the Premier, and the gentlemen who are associated with him, take this unstatesmanlike view of the question of separation. I believe it would be very much better for Sonthern Queensland, as well as for Central and Northern Queensland, if the colony were divided into three. Does anyone imagine that if Queensland had never been separated from New South Wales Brisbane would be the place that it is; that we should have the popula­tion we have on the D,wling Downs ; that we would have the settlement we have all along the coast; that Maryborough and Rockhampton would be the important places that they are, or that Townsvil!e would be anything more than a mere village ? I do not think so. I think the mere fact of Queensland having obtained separa­tion from New South ·wales is responsible for the large population there is in it to-day, and I am quite certain that if Queensland were still further subdivided the development of the Northern and Central divisions would be much more rapid than is likely to be the caRe if the colony is allowed to continue "one and indivisible," as the Premier puts it. I think that is an aspect of the case that will appear very forcible to the people of the Southern division. While I am speaking on this question I should like to refer to the relation of the black labour question to the question of separation. It is perfectly well known that a majority of the people of the Northern division of the colony are opposed to black labour, and that almost all the people in the Central division take up the position that Australia must be reserved for the white man. So that the fact of the matter is that black labour is practically forcPd on the North, and upon a portion of the Centre, by the people who live in the South. What did the Premier say in 1893? He said, "The agricultural industry round about that place"-he was speaking of Cairns-"must be carried on by coloured labour." I believe the fear that if Northern and Central Queensland were separated they would do away with black labour is at the root of a great deal of the opposi­tion to the division of the colony. And in this connection I would point out to the working men of the Southern division, who are largely respm:\­sible for the failure of the Centre and the North to get separation, that they are being made cats­paws of by the black-labour party in Queens­land. The sooner they realise that position the better it will be for themselves. There is this question of New Guinea. The Premier, when delivering biB speech, went very fully into it ; much more fully than I think it de­served. I would have preferred very much if he had dealt more with the internal affairs of Queensland, and a good deal less with the New Guinea question. But in any case his defence of the Government was in my opinion a very wE-&k one. He showed incontest,.bly that Sir Hugh Nelson had acted unconstitutionally. He tried to make us believe that his Government did not know anything at all about this matter, but he failed completely. I find that not only did the Premier know, but the Treasurer knew, and Sir Horace Tnzer knew, and Mr. Th.ynne knew ;

154 Address in Repl;g. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

that the matter was before the Cabinet at the beginning of October, 1897.

The SECRE'£ARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : Where do you find that ?

Mr. STEW ART : In the printed cor-res­pondence.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : I should like you to show it.

Mr. STEW ART: The correspondence, on page 7, ehows that t.he papers were forwarded to Sir Horace Tozer on the 30th September, and it is marked-

Cabinet, H. T. And I find from a published document on the table that the matter was brought before the Cabinet.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : It never was.

Mr. STEW ART: Then what does it mean? The SECRETARY FOR PPBLIC LANDS : It may

have been intended to be brought before the Cabinet, but it never was.

Mr. STEW ART: After what I have quoted the minute goes on to say-

ascertain the date Sir William ~IacGregor is expected in Brisbane.-H. T., 6-10-97.

Forward papers to Agriculture for l\fr. Thynne's information and advice.-H. '1'. Of course Ministers will know whether the entry "Cabinet, H. T.," means that the matter was brought before the Cabinet or not.

The SECRETARY ~'OR PUBLIC LaNDS: It does not. It probably means that he intended it should.

Mr. STEW AR':l.' : At any rate, Sir Horace Tozer knew about it; Mr. Tbynne knew about it, and the Premier tells us that the Treasurer knew.

The S~JCRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS: That was some preliminary correspondence, a despatch from the Secretary of State, which contained no details.

Mr. STEW ART : In any case the Premier's explanation showed clearly that 8ir Hugh Nelson had acted unconstitutionally in the whole matter. The hon. member for South Brisbane put the matter very clearly last night. Here we are in this position: Sir Hugh Nelson, fortunately for himself, is somewhere else, and I suppose we cannot got at him. But for my part I think he ought to be impeached. No man, however high his position-and the higher the position the more exemplary should be the punishment­should be allowed to violate the Constitution in the way Sir Hugh N el,on has done, and I submit that the Government ought to impPach him, and remove him from his position, if that is possible. I was rather surprised at one admission of the Premier. He said the Ordinance was placed before him when be came back from England with a number of other papers.

The PREMIER: I said nothing of the sort. It was not placed before me.

Mr. STEW ART : At all events there was an envelope with some papers, and the hon. gentle­man never took the trouble to open that envelope to see what it contained.

The J;'REMIER : There was no envelope-simply a covermg letter.

:VIr. STEW ART: Neither did his Under Secretary. Is that the slipshod fashion. in which the business of the country is conducted · Are they so carele,;s about the country's interests that they will not even take the trouble to open an envelope?

The PREMIER: I say there wa3 no envelope. The covering letter was sufficient.

Mr. STEW ART: The hon. gentleman is on the horns of a dilemma, and he may take which of them he chooses. Either he was so careless

about the business of the country that he did not look into this envelope, or he knew and he wants to conceal that he did.

The PREMIER: Sir William Mac3-regor is a Scotchman, and wanted his drafting done for "nothing," which I refused to do.

Mr. STEW ART: The fact of the matter is, that notwithstanding the hon. gentleman's laboured defence, he has failed to prove his case. I believe that the Government knew all about this matter, and that unless the Press of the southern colonies had taken it up we should never have heard a word of protest. I think it says very little for the watchfulness of our Uovernment as regards our interests that such a thing should be permitted to take place. Then we have the ever-recurring black labour question. The Speech says the necessity for preventing any undue influx of aliens has continuously engaged the attention of the Government. What does "undue" mean? Does it mean ten immigrants a year or 10,000? I do not trust the Govern­ment a snap of the finger on the question. The policy of this continuous Government has always been to introduce as many alien labourers as the country will stand.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: The facts are against you.

Mr. STEW ART : I haw always said that the present Government rules this country in the interests of absentees and not in the interests of the people who live here. What do the absentees care about the colour of the men· who earn interest for them except that they can get a higher return out of coloured aliens than out of white men? That is why the Government aid and abet those absentees in their endeavours to flood the community with alien labourers. ·what is the position with regard to the Japanese? Whereas every other colony refuses to enter into this treaty with Japan, Queensland did so. The Premier tells us we are in a better position than any of the other colonies on that account, but I don't believe it. We have employers of labour now applying to the Government to allow Japanese immigrants to come here.

The SECRETARY ~'OR PUBLIC LANDS : And being refused.

Mr. STEW ART : Why? Simply because there is an election in the near future, and they know the public feeling. How is it that month after month th<·se J aps were allow~d to pour into the colony? Do not the sugar-growers say they cannot live if they don't get cheap labour? The kanaka is exhausted; we won't let them have coolies, and they want J aps. But the country is going to stop this. When out of every six adult labourers in the colony one is a coloured man, the question ha~ assumed sufficient importance to be immediately dealt with; and if the people are wise they will hurl from place and power a Government like the present that connives at this sort of thing. What greater danger could there be to our social, industrial, and civil liberty than this continual invasion of an inferior race ? How can we maintain onr standard of living when men are permitted to come in who can live and save money on 16s. a month? That will suit the absentee capitalist, but will it suit the white man and his wife and family? If this is allowed to continue our white people will be dragged down to the level of those Asiatic aliens, and every man with a single gleam of the love of freedom in his hod.}' should protest against thi• sort of thing. The Premier has told us that he is going to take up a distinct position on this question. I hope for his own sake and for the sake of the country that he will do so. If he does not he will have to reckon with those of us who believe otherwise. We are told that the best way to keep out these .Taps is to have

Address in Reply. [4 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 155

assisted or free immigration. We know from the reports of our immigration agents that we cannot get people to come here unless we pay their passagea, and I do not believe that even if we do we will get anything like the number some people desire. I ask whether an inhabitant of England, Scotland, or Ireland even--

The PREMIER: Even! Mr. STEW ART: The hon. gentleman told us

how poor they are in Ireland, and I am sorry to say that they are. There is absolute famine now in the west of Ireland, and I say it is a disgrace that such a state of things should exist in the British Empire. But bad as things are there, how can we ask people of our race and blood to come here to compete with Chinamen, Japanese, and kanakas, and all the scum of Asia ? We would be doing those people a wrong if we brought them here under those conditions. ·what is the position in England, Scotland, and in some parts of Ireland now? The agricultural labourer is better off that he could possibly be here. He has constant employment at what he considers fair wages, whereas if he came here he would only get intermittent work at low wages, so that even if our labour market was not o;·er­stocked I would not be a party to encouraging those people to come unless they came at their own expense. In every portion of the colony there are unemployed men. In the Central division there are any number of men out of employment; in Brisbane the same thing applies, and all over the Darling Downs and along the coast--

The TREASURER: No. Mr. S'rEW ART: In the crushing season

there may be a demand for men for six months in the year, but even then the supply is greater than the demand. There may be a little scarcity just at the beginning of the ~eason, but after that there is a continual flow of men all through those districts. I know that at Mount Morgan, at Lake's Creek, and any other place in the Central division where men are required the supply is always greater than the demand.

The PREMIER: No. You :1re not up to date. Mr. STEW ART: The only thing I can say is

that I am up to date, and that I know just as much about that question as the hon. gentleman. If instead of talking about waRting the money of the people in introducing immigrants the Govern­ment turned its attention to making the people who arc here prosperous, as I believe they might be, we would have immigrants coming here by the thousand. If you can only make the people here prosperous, the news of their prosperity will very soon waft itself over the civilised world, and the immediate result will be that you will have thousands coming here to share in that prosperity. The people of Great Britain know the condition of Queensland as well as we know it. Y on cannot deceive them now. They have the Govern­ment issuing circulars every month, giving the average wages. They compare those wages with those they are receiving, and they come to the con­clusion that it is as well for them to remain at home as to come out here. I believe this country could be made very much better for the working classes than Great Britain is at the present moment, but it never will be so long as we have the policy pursued that is being pursued by the Government at tl;le present time. To return for a moment to the question of prosperity, the Secretary for Agriculture gave us figures showing how many more acres were under cultivation now than there were some years ago. 1'hat proves nothing. In India every available acre Is under cultivation--

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Not yet. Mr. STEW ART: I believe every ava'ilable

acre is r nder cultivation there, yet no less than about a million people die. there every year of

starvation. But we might have a very much larger area under cultivation than we have, and in the hands of men who would make a good use of it, if the Government would only adopt a liberal policy with regard to settlement upon the land.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: If you would cease saying that the farmers are starving we might have.

~Ir. STE\V ART: What does it matter what We say about the farmer?

The SECRE'rARY FOR AGRICULTURE: It goes all over the world. The newspapers are full of it.

M:r. STEW ART: We know well that for years there was an immense demand for land upon the Darling Downs, and there was hardly a single acre available for selection, until the Government passed the Agricultural Lands Pur­chase Act.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : Do you blame the Government?

Mr. STEWART: I am not going to enter into that question at all. Perhaps the Govern­ment did the best thing they could in the circum­stances. I believe it was much better that the Government should purchase the lands and settle people upon them than to allow them to remain in the position they were in.

The SECRETARY l!'OR PUBLIC LANDS: In spite of your opposition.

Mr. STEW ART : Yes, in spite of my opposi­tion, but I think the thing could have been done in a very much better way. I am not going to deal with that now. But what I want to point out is that the demand for land all over the colony has been much greater than the Govern­ment h:tve been willing to supply. I know a man in the Rockhampton district who applied for a selection eighteen months ago, and he only got it ahout three months back. He was fifteen months waiting for permission to go upon the land he applied for.

The SECRETARY l!'OR PUBLIC LANDS : \Vhat is his name ? I like to get the names.

Mr. STE\VART: Flemmingwas his name, and the same thing happened in the case of another man named JJunton. It took these peop.e over twelve months to get permission to go upon the land.

The TREASURER : Do you know how much land was selected last year ?

iYir. STEW ART : I know how much land was selected last year. I know land selection w:1s very active, but I also know that a grt:at deal more land might have been selected if the Go­vernment had only given reasonable facilities for its selection. It is not the quantity of land that was selected, but the quantity that might have been selected. Another case I can give the Secretary for Lands before the Lands Estimates comes on is that of a man who wanted a grazing homestead, and it was fifteen months after he pnt in his application before it was granted.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : 'Vhat is his name?

Mr. STEW ART: Larcey, and the hon. gentle­man ha' not heard the last of it yet. \Vhat en­couragement is that to people to settle upon the land? Now we have the policy of the Premier with regard to the university. Ne one has a higher appreciation of the benefits of a university than I have, but before going in for the luxuries of education we ought to see if we cannot reach every child in the colony, or as many of them as we possibly can, with a primary educatio':'· It is a fact that a very large number of children have no opportunity of getting even a primary education. The hon. member for Balonne dealt very exhaustively with this subject last session, and showed that in the Western country it is next to a puzzle for the

156 .Address in Repl,y. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournme~t for Exldbition •

children there to get even an elementary educa­tion. Even in the district I re]Jresent, which is rather a central one, the people often find grea.t difficulty in educa.ting their children. I know that along the rail way lines the children of lengthsmen in many cases do not get an;~: education at all. I think, then, that untrl primary education is placed within the reach of, as nearly as possible, every child in the colony there should be no talk of a university. After all, who would benefit by a university?

The PREMIER: I~verybody. Mr. STE\V ART : Only a very smftllminority

of the people. \Vhat does it matter to the great mass of the people that a certain number of men should have a university educr>tion?

The PRE}IIER: I am V·.,ry much surprised to hear a Scotchman talk like that with the experi­ence of univer>ities in his own country.

Mr. STEW ART: I am nut abusing my own country-the more education we get the better; but a university may be called the flower of the education plant, and our first duty is to see that the roots are all right. If we see to that the flower will come in its proper time. Then we have the provisional schools, and the hon. mem­ber for Croydon has a motion on the paper with regard to them. \Vhen we consider the difficul­ties placed in the way of people living in the bush and the sacrifices they have t<• make to get their children educated, we ought to come to the conclusion that if there is any money to spend for education it ought to be directed to that end instead of being spent in founding a university. Then there i> the question of the ~tate of school buildings, nJt only in the country districts, but in some of the towns. Why, in Rockhampton one of the >Chools is a perfect disgrace.

The TREASURER: ·whose fault is that? The PREMIER : It is a perfect disgrace. You

are quite right. Mr. STEW ART: According to the present

law it is the fault of the people who live there. I do not know whether it is that they are unable to find the money; if it is, it does not say much for their prosperity ; but there the thing stands and the school is in an unsanitary condition, unfit for the occupation of children or teachers. I clo not sn,y that the Government is to blame entirely for that ; I say there is a want of public spirit on the part of the inhabitants as well.

The PRE}IIER: Hear, hear! There always has been in Rockhampton.

Mr. STEIY ART: I clo not say that Rock· hampton is a public·spirited place any more than Mackay. I snppuse the people are about equally selfish in both places.

Mr. ANNEAR: Did you have a look at the schools in Mary borough.

Mr. STE\V ART: I must compliment the hon. member upon the town which he represents. ·It is one of the nicest towns in the colony, and I wish it all prosperity. I only wi&h it was a little more liberal. I would lw very much gratified to welcome the hon. member to this side of the House, as there is no one I should like to see here more than him. Now I come to the matter of the wool sales. I do not pretend to be conversant with that subject; but I cannot see what gCJod this is going to do to the colony or to the producers of wool or anyone else, except a few people who are evidently interested, such as stock and station agents.

The PREMIER : Grazing farmers. Mr. STEW ART: I trust the Government

will not waste the public money in this way. If the wool producers of the colony can get a better price for their wool within the colony than outside of it, I should think they would try to institute the sales themselves, but I do not see that the Government have any right to interfere. Then we are promised a Mining Bill, which I

suppose will receive due consideration when it comes before us. Some hon. members seem to be hopaful that this Bill will assist the industry, but I confess I am not.

The PREMIER: Have you seen it? . Mr. STEW ART : I have a pretty shrewd idea

of what it will contain. The 'rREASURElt: You are pretty despondent

to-night. Mr. STEW ART : I think the Premier met

with certain speculators in the old country, and was largely influAnced by what they told him, that if the labour clauses were altered, capital would flow much more freely into Queensland than it does. The fact is that at present mining in Queensland is paying better than it is in any of the other colonies, even under the existing conditions, and my opinion is that if capital will not come under these conditions it ought to be left out. I will not detain the House any longer now, but I trust the Premier will carry out his promise that his policy will be one of generous liberalism. If he does he will be warmly supported from this side of the House, but if he pursues the traditional policy of his party I can promise him at least my uncom­promising opposition. That may not matter much to the hon. gentleman, but it is the position I intend to take up.

Mr. ANNEAR: I beg to move the adjourn­ment of the debate.

Question put and passed; and the resumption of the debate was made an Order of the Day for Tuesday next.

The House adjourned at fifteen minutes to 11 o'clock.