HEALTH, HONESTY AND FUTURE OF THE PSPP IN 2014 DUTCHREBELS P LITTER Story about the combination WANHAN WUOREN NAISEN TUOKSU (Poeme) x BRONCE HUATUNTUPAC (Bruce) . The breeder of Bronce and Brisa is Marisa de la Rosa, Lima, Peru. Owned by Kim Borgans. After the birth of my second litter P the problems started with BRISA HUATUNTUPAQ, the sister of the male BRONCE I have used for breeding of this litter. BRISA HUATUNTUPAC has juvenile cataracts in BOTH eyes, she is blind. For the hole story see Kim Borgans, the owner of this two dogs.

All of my BB have found the best Pethome and loving owners, NOT to breeders or kennels. Paconda and Taquille stay with me. From that moment I was waiting to see how this litter will develop in the future. I show Paconda & Puno Taquille, the puppies looked great and happy.

DUTCHREBELS PARIVA, an other sister of this P litter, has Hanging Tongue Syndrome as well as an underdeveloped lower jaw at young age.

Until the real drama started :( I need to let go my first kiddo :( DUTCHREBELS PAQARI, one of the girls of the P Litter, has primary idiopathic epilepsy. Through this Hereditary disease we need to let her go at young age (15 months). For the owner of Paqari, Jeanine, this was very sad. And the real health dogs got a black page forever in this sad story .

I have informed the breeders of PSPP about health and care in dogs life, to warn for this kind of people they breed dogs and don't give the right information about health problems. ( PB mails) We need to warn together to take dogs OUT of breeding they have Hereditary diseases. Marisa la Rosa sent us the most terrible poor dogs, without the RIGHT information about them. We, Kim and me, never get a reply from this breeder. This means for me personally, we can NOT trust the dogs who arrived from Marisa la Rosa. (Scroll down for the mail Kim did sent to Marisa )

This is the right time for me to close the door for Breeders like this. First let them make rules for DNA and ECVO testing. And don't forget research of the FOXI 3 gen !! Untill that time I will never trust dogs of the Huatuntupac kennel anymore for one of my combinations. Marisa needs to work on a breeding program for the dogs she sends to Europe, there is no transparency or monitoring . For god's sake every day to learn from your breeding please, then we have a good corporation for our breed. I hope we learn from this very sad drama. I will let you know I fight for my dogs worldwide. I have healthy, strong dogs and will protect them !! Pedigree dogs NEED a happy, good life for a long time. The healthy dogs are suffering under arrogance of people, with selfish behavior and the most of all : MONEY :( . The P litter is out of breeding or show program for the future. More info at : www.dutchrebelsperuvians.eu Thanks Marisa la Rosa, you have stolen my pictures and information of the Dutchrebels website and the database. It is a shame you give the wrong information about dogs/ kennels worldwide . Shame on you !! DUTCHREBELS Trude van Padt gvanderpadt@online.nl

Hello Marisa and Clelia, I hope you both are fine. After my last message true FB I did not get any reply. I told you that I was greatfull that you kept your word to replace me a new puppy for the catatact of Brisa. But because I stop breeding for now ( or ever) and don't feel to anticipate shows anymore it would be not wise to take another of your beautifull BB's while somebody else would be very happy to have one. So I proposed that you'd sell the pup and send me the money. But no replay so far, maybe you did not read/get that message. Facebook is not always working well as we know,.... But now we have a new and even bigger problem in this line: one of the female puppys of Bruce has severe epileptic seisures! In the beginning we did not believe the owner, she is pregnant and a little bit hysteric. It started at christmass,... Some small seisures, but last saturday she had multiple at one day!!! And we have it on film too. It is terrible to watch! This week Bronce will be castrated, because this can only come from his line. The Wanhan Wuoren line is 100% clean of epilepsie. So now both Briss and Bronce are taken out of breeding and the whole litter must be sterilized too!! This is terrible and a nightmare for Trude, kennel Dutchrebels, who is the breeder of this litter,..... I have no words how to discribe this horror of an epileptic dog, so sad! And the fear and panic of the pregnant owner really breaks my heart! I will send you 2 movies right after this email, so you can judge for yourself. I hope that all health problems of siblings will be in the open and not covered up! Hope to hear from you, have a nice day. Kim

WANHAN WUOREN KENNEL INFO Each of us should know what epilepsy is and what’s causing it. But few are prepared to admit the existence of it in their own dogs and breeding lines. Even fewer are prepared to go public with that information and to admit, that their dog is sick or they may possibly be carrying epilepsy. There seem to be plenty of lies and secrecy. Not many have the courage to tell the truth. And even fewer are prepared for real to do everything possible to prevent epilepsy from spreading. It is extremely easy to continue breeding in sick bloodlines and especially to blame dogs by other breeders. We all should have at least some knowledge about the mechanism of epilepsy. Each breeder has their own goals and ways of breeding and also their own “integrity” in growing the number of dogs. You don’t buy your honesty towards the race and your own breeding with lies, accusations and dirt throwing. Every one of us has our own opinion of which dog is good enough for breeding and which dog is a GENUINE hairless, which is HEALTHY and which has a GOOD NATURE. And we shouldn’t forget what the race is supposed to be like. There is a lot more when it comes to responsible breeding. We also have the right to choose who we are working with and whose dogs we are using / to whom we give our dogs for breeding or even sell our dogs. Only few have the guts to use this right. The less glamorous side of breeding dogs is a lot more than secrecy, blaming others and lies. I have always said and will say it again, that we all get bad puppies sometimes. It is nothing you need to do on purpose. And nobody has to lower their morality – it is not in the interest of the race. Dirt throwing, envy and politics – this is the dirty side of breeding dogs. Sometimes it would be good to look in the mirror and face the truth.

It is very unfortunate that the race database was misused as means of some one trying to benefit their own cause. It is very easy to find and share information from the database – without knowing the dogs and their true health information. I used to publicise the information and my suspicions of epilepsy on my webpage – information concerning my dogs and their bloodlines. I knew about this incoming “storm” and sent a message containing the info abroad to a few of people having a dog bred by me and one breeder, of whom I have one dog. I haven’t made any calls or had any other kind of contact to them. In the message I didn’t give out any specific names of dogs or breeders I was referring to. Not one of the persons receiving this message felt needing further information or asked which dogs the matter concerned. Why did I send this message to foreign owners of my dogs? They have bred / will be breeding my bloodlines. They had the right to know and I had the duty to provide them with an explanation before this public dirt throwing would begin. And I knew it would begin – I’ve seen it before. And I know where it is leading. I know that you Marisa la Rosa could have chose to press “reply all” and expressed your opinion properly and to people involved in the matter. If you were referring to the message I sent. But it doesn’t remove the fact that a descendant of your dog has died of this disease. And the dead dog is also a descendant of my dog. My situation is a bit different from yours. My dogs have a fairly long pedigree. The dogs used for breeding have lived/live with families. I usually don’t use very young dogs for breeding, because I want to take time to see if any health problems emerge. Surely I have made some exceptions even lately. I can understand that in order to defend your own breeding, you copied / actually STOLE all possible information from the health database of the race and publicised it. That was really low of you. You don’t know the dogs, most of them you haven’t even seen or had any contact with their owners or even breeders. I would call this shooting all over the place in panic.

You had no need or intention to find out the truth, you only wanted to defend your own breeding. If you had spent a bit more time with the pedigree of this race, you could probably have understood the situation a little better and also been able to interpret it the right way. My help is / would have been available. The epilepsy of my dogs is an easy matter to solve.

My epileptic ILL dog http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=FI34157/09&R=310.

WANHAN WUORE HITTI YKKÖNEN “Chili”

Is the only “sure” certainly of epilepsy case in my knowledge concerning

my dogs, and it has had four epileptic attacks / or epileptic-type attacks in

her life time.

Chili is not on medication, because she has not had the attacks very often

and in these days the attacks have been so mild.

Other members of Chili’s litter haven’t had any sign of epilepsy.

The owners of Chili’s siblings and all the other owners of my dogs, have

been informed about Chili’s epilepsy.

The Hitti-litter of which Chili comes from, has been excluded from breeding. The puppies of this litter, were never used in breeding. These dogs have lived as pets in the owners homes. We have never used any of Chili’s mothers “Söde” siblings in breeding either. Chili’s mother or her siblings have never had any symptoms of epilepsy. Chili’s father “Tiittus” has been used for breeding three times in years 2005-2006. Chili’s father or his siblings have never had any symptoms of epilepsy. No epilepsy has been discovered in the descendants of Chilis’s father’s siblings. Not in the next generations either. There has been no epilepsy in Tiittus’s other descendants or in other combinations. We used Tiittus for breeding – before Chili’s epileptic attacks emerged.

The bloodline of Tiittus has been used in continuous breeding in descending generations. There has been no signs or symptoms in the descending generations.

It is the duty of every dog owner to inform the breeder about any signs of sicknesses appearing in their dogs. The duty of the breeder is to tell the owners about any signs of sicknesses appearing in the bred dogs. And for those who are planning to get a dog from her, or using her dogs for further breeding. The breeder should always inform the owners of her dogs about serious sicknesses and especially hereditary diseases. I myself inform the owners, who are involved in the matter and the breeders working in collaboration, who are using a dog of my bloodline. This information is not to be added to the race health database updated by Sonja K. All rights reserved. Here is a combination of a dog sick of epilepsy: http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=ER45498/02&R=310.2 As you can see, the father is from Peru and died recently. It lead a truly healthy and epilepsy free life. “Tara” - BLUE CREST'S QUEEN OF MILLIONS died a year ago. She

had epilepsy of which I told publicly. And got a lot of negative publicity for it. The epilepsy of Tara was probably caused by an accident. She almost died of leather bone stuck to her throat. We only discovered what was going on when she was already stiff, her eyes were glazed and she hadn’t been able to breathe for a long time. We had to force her mouth open. We couldn’t get the bone out, so we forced it down her throat and she started breathing. I’ve had many discussions with experts about this incident and they have felt this might be one of the reasons causing her epilepsy. Tara’s last puppies were almost a year old, when she got her first recorded epileptic attack.

Only two dogs of this line have been used in breeding. This litter had 4 puppies. http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=ER277645498/02&R=310.2 “Magi “ - I went public with the information about the first one in race born without an ear canal ( in europe). Two of the puppies were put down and sent to the pathologist. All the documents are safe with me. That was the end of this line. The father “Vicus” of this litter is still in good shape and alive. Without epilepsy. The mother Magi is perky old lady and living without epilepsy. This is the other line I have been using, and here you can see the pedigree of the latest one in line, living at my home . http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=FI31279/11&R=310.1 This line has been built up really carefully. The puppies of latest litter ( by accident) are now over three years old. I had no intention of having the litter. The mother and father were living with my friend and a registered the puppies on my kennel name. Goes without saying that these puppies haven’t had any epileptic attacks. When the puppies are old enough we will consider real hard weather to use them for breeding or not. We were following this TARA-PELE bloodline real close. This dog “Roli” (whose pedigree you can see) had two “sort of” epileptic-TYPE attacks – according to the owner. http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=ER45498%2F02&R=310.2 This dog has been sterilized and as far as I know it hasn’t had any big or small actual attacks. And it hasn’t had any more thorough investigations done. The suspicion was enough for me. Its siblings haven’t either had epilepsy. No other dogs from this line have been used for breeding, they have all been cut out. They are no threat to the health or future of the race. And so they haven’t brought any good or bad sides of them to any dog, not ever or nowhere.

The dog that still seems to be blamed for epilepsy is my first hairless Peruvian dog MAX: http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=ER45498%2F02&R=310.2 This dog “Max” has lived with me and also my friends so that they could get acquainted with the race. It has spent a happy life in a family. Max has never had an epileptic attack. The pedigrees Marisa la Rosa has been showing are not 100% identical to Max’s own pedigree. If we know the basics of epilepsy, we know that: all the puppies of a litter are possibly not even carriers of the decease. It is difficult to tell apart the healthy ones. Only time will tell and the puppies to come. And I think that 17 years is a long time enough! It is for me and the owners of my dogs. And it should be enough for others too. I wish that everybody could present the pedigrees of their dogs for at least a period of 12 years and that they would know in person the dogs in these pedigrees for a period of 7 years. The other dog still accused of epilepsy is a dog I imported from Peru, Flipper. http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=EST00504/02&R=310.1 Flipper is an old dog and is still feeling good. Probably living his last year. This dog hasn’t had a single epileptic attack. Flipper has shared his fabulous character – but also severe problems with missing teeth. It is difficult to get rid of those problems, but I would rather breed dogs missing teeth than knowingly breed dogs that have epilepsy. 13 years is also the time to discover epilepsy, if there was some. Amy Malmivaara asked You to present the documents proving Her dogs being sick / a risk for the race. I am looking forward to seeing these documents too. We don’t want to listen to hearsay. Or what ever someone has been telling. There are so many parts involved in this drama. http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=ER50725%2F09&R=310.1 This is the pedigree of Poeme. She was the mother of the litter of which the epileptic puppy was part. Poemes father is BEREBERE

D'MICHANZAMAN and it has lived in Finland since 2006. It is still

healthy and has never had any recorded or seen epileptic attacks. More information about its pedigree will probably be found in Peru.

Then there is Tupac, who came from Peru together with Bere and is

still healthy and free of epilepsy. Tupac is the grandfather of the

dead puppy.

My magnificent import from Peru is FINA:

http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=ER17252%2F09 Fina lived a life totally free of epilepsy. She has really many lineal descendants. The fact is that some breeders have had epilepsy in their pedigrees from this line. We still need to look at the big picture. What other lines have been used for breeding. Are there any common nominators and many imports to the pedigree? Fina is absolutely the best dog I have ever imported from Peru. A fabulous dog. And it is all thanks to Ursula. And when I look at the pedigree containing all my dogs You have pronounced sick or under suspicion: http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=FI54776/11&R=310.2 These Diiva’s puppies are healthy and over 3 years old. They haven’t had any problems with their health, not to mention epilepsy. I have imported a lot of dogs from Peru. Most of them I haven’t approved as part of my breeding. My motto has been that you don’t need to grow shit with shit – shit always keeps coming anyway. I am also very picky about using my own dogs for breeding. It certainly isn’t good enough for me that the dog is alive and has sexual organs. The common nominator in my opinion concerning the pedigree of these sick dogs is TRUE IGNORANCE, HIDING AND COVERING UP FACTS ETC. As a breeder I can never know what the genetics of each dog is and how each gene will affect different litters, which is latent and what will appear now or later in form of carrying the disease or being sick. This is a fact that every breeder has to live with / risk. This is the situation of my dogs beginning from year 1997. I have met and seen also the old lines in Europe. Many of the dogs I have examined by hand myself and seen them alive. I think I have made

my homework. My knowledge of the race is available to the owners of my dogs. And I have taken part of the first genetic tests in the beginning of the 21st century, when the samples were sent to USA… I have always published the information about any sickness or suspicion of any sickness in my dogs and also informed the owners whom it may concern. Truth never dies. I have had the guts to say out loud that my dogs have this and that problems. I have also had my dogs tested and examined a lot and I know a lot about them. To me this has been and still is the only race I’m breeding. It is my passion and my “destiny”. I have had a magnificent honor to have Wonderful and Honest owners of my dogs. They have taken care on loved my dogs and been worthy of my trust. I have never tried to hide any disease, or asked the owners of my dogs to shut up or hide facts, but rather encouraged them to speak out the truth. As I have done also with Trude. I am proud You told the truth about Your dog. Even though it affects my own work as a breeder. It’s good that I am such a hated breeder, that all kinds of attempts to hide things, have no way of succeeding. The truth will always come out, sooner or later, and this applies to all of us. Now the discussion of sick dogs is out, and I hope everybody that has sick or suspicious dogs is brave enough to take part in it. We don’t save the race by hiding facts and blaming each other. We save it by being honest and by loving the race. We have to disqualify the sick or suspicious dogs from breeding. I don’t accept using sick lines for breeding. I never have and I never will. I don’t breed dogs just for selling; I breed them to be family members for myself and for my friends, and also material for ours own breeding work.

I still earn my living to support my dogs, my dogs don’t support me or the dogs living with me. In future I will think really carefully which dogs I will use and to whom I give them for breeding. In my opinion if we can’t even be honest to the races true hairlessness, it is hard to believe in honesty in things not visible to the eye – talking about epilepsy or similar diseases. The dog world is brutal. It knows who to blame for what reason. But there are just a few of us carrying the responsibility. The truth Marisa is after all that the descendant of my and your dog has been really ill and it has been put down because of EPILEPSY. Once you have cleared it to you self and you know the lines of all your dogs and what lies behind them and what has happened to them in all these years you have bred them – then I believe you know the truth. When you are sure you have done what can be done. You can have a peaceful rest and trust that the truth will come out in time. I have time to wait for answers from the future. Time always tells the truth. Defaming will end some day and the truth will come out. Waiting for it to happen…. I have a lot of better thing to do in my life than stuff like this. But I felt important to clarify this and everybody can read this message for as many times they find it necessary. In order to get it right. The dogs that are descendants of Poeme, I have bred or own, have never suffered of epilepsy or its symptoms. The only lines that MIGHT have had any signs of epilepsy is Taras and Chilis line, but nothing else has ever been found or come out. Nobody knows anything for sure about the CARRIERS. There just isn’t any way of investigating it for sure. Breeding is about risk management and genetics, which we cannot change. We can only affect our own breeding and make sure we know the background of the dogs we are using.

Feel free to email me if you have some questions on your mind. I am happy to discuss them with you, when I have the time for it. The computer is just a tool for me, not my whole life and world. I don’t want to waste time sitting online. Wishing a better time for the race and true HONESTY. With regards Päivi Votkin Wanhan Wuoren Kennel – Peruvian Hairless dogs since 1997 paivi@wanhanwuoren.com