9 5 12 cr12-2025 063341 transcript by lynn stubbs 0204 full

7/28/2019 9 5 12 CR12-2025 063341 Transcript by Lynn Stubbs 0204 Full

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1 IN THE JUSTICE COURT OF THE STATE OF NEV D2 IN ND FOR THE COUNTY OF W SHOE3 THE HONORABLE PETER J . SFERRAZZA, JUSTICE OF THE PEACE456 THE STATE OF NEVADA,789

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P l a i n t i f f Case No. RCR2011- 063341vs . Dept N o . 2

Z CH RY BARKER COUGHLIN,Defendan t .

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGSJAVS MISDEMEANOR TRIAL

Wednesday, September 5, 2012

APPEARANCES:For t he P l a i n t i f f :

For t he Defendan t :

Z CR YOUNG, ESQ.Deputy distri t a t t o r n e yOne South S i e r r a S t r e e tReno, Nevada 89520

JAMES LESLIE, ESQ.Deputy Pub l i c Defende rP.O. Box 11130Reno, Nevada 89520

23 JAVS ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED24 Tra ns c r ibe d by: EVELYN J . STUBBS

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1 I N D E X2 WITNESS:

3 NICHOL S DUR LDE4

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DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR YOUNGCROSS EXAMINATION BY MR LESLIE

8 E X H I IT S9 NO. Marked Admit ted

1 MARKED PREVIOUSLY11

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1 RENO NEVADA; WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 5 2012; 10:03 A.M.234567

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THE COURT: Mr. Coughl in , we do have a copy oft he r e c o rd ings o f t h e p ro c e e d i n g s . We can f u r n i s h it toyou a t no c o s t . The answer i s no you canno t record ,because we have t he o f f i c i a l r e c o rd . And I w i l l i n s t r u c t

8 t h a t you ge t an aud io - -9

10THE DEFENDANT:THE COURT:

Thank you sir .a t no c o s t to you.

11 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you sir.12 THE COURT: Al l r i gh t . We left o f f - - I m t r y i n g13 t o f i nd my no te s from l a s t t ime .14 MR. LESLIE: Your Honor b e f o r e we ge t going, I15 do have a p r e l i m i n a r y m a t t e r , whenever you wish to hear16 it.171819

THE COURT:MR. LESLIE:THE COURT:

Well l e t me j u s t - Sure .

- - f i nd my no t es . Okay. We had20 Nicho las Dura lde t e s t i f y , N a t h a n i e l Za ra t e , and t hen Cory21 Goble . And I m no t s u re if t he S t a t e - - I d o n t be l i eve22 t he S t a t e a d d re s se d t h i s .23 MR YOUNG: Your Honor have we fo rm a l l y c a l l e d24 t he case ye t?

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1 THE COURT: Yes, we have . This i s t he m a t t e r of2 S t a t e o f Nevada ve r s us Zachary Barker Coughl in , Coughl in3

4

(p ronounc ing) , I m s o r r y . It i s a Depar tment 2 c a se ,2011-063341, and it i s t he con t inued trial. And t he

5 charges a re p e t t y l a r c e ny , one coun t , and p o s s e s s i o n o f6 s t o l e n p r o p e r t y , a second coun t .7

8

MR YOUNG: Thank you, Your Honor.The S t a t e has no t r e s t e d . O f f i c e r Dura lde o r

9 Dura lde (p ronounc ing) , excuse me, t e s t i f i e d a t t he - - w i th10 r e s p e c t t o t he mot ion t o s uppre s s , which t h i s Cour t11 gra n te d in p a r t and d en ied in pa r t , e f f e c t i v e l y .12 And so wi th r e s p e c t t o the trial t he o n ly two13 w i tne s s e s t h a t have t e s t i f i e d fo r t he S t a t e i n t he S t a t e s14 case i n c h i e f i s Mr. Za ra t e and Mr. Goble.15 O f f i c e r Dura lde i s p r e s e n t and r ead y to t e s t i f y16 w i th r e s p e c t - - as it p e r t a i n s to t he trial.17 THE COURT: Well , I t h i n k t he Cour t d id i n d i c a t e18 a t t he l a s t h e a r i n g t h a t I would i n c o r p o r a t e , by19 r e f e r e n c e , all o f h i s p r i o r t e s t imony a t t he mot ion to20 su p p re s s and t h i s was to be s u p p lemen ta l t e s t i m o n y .21 MR. YOUNG: And I r e c a l l t h e r e was an o b j e c t i o n22 to t h a t . I have O f f i c e r Dura lde h e re r ead y to t e s t i f y to23 t he case . So S t a t e s r eady to go forward .24 No r e c o rd ing from 10:07 10:48 a .m.)

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THE COURT: Al l r i gh t . I w i l l s t a t e on t he2 r e c o rd t h a t t he Court has made a d e t e r m i n a t i o n t h a t any3 p o t e n t i a l c o n f l i c t o f i n t e r e s t t h a t e x i s t s in t h i s case4 between Mr. L e s l i e and Mr. Coughl in does n o t r i s e to t he5 l e v e l t h a t it would deny Mr. Coughl in h i s S i x t h Amendment6 r i g h t to be r e p r e s e n t e d by c o u n se l .7 And f u r t h e r , I f i nd t h a t Mr. L e s l i e has done more8 than an adequa te job in r e p r e s e n t i n g Mr. Coughl in in t he s e9 proceed ings to d a t e and w i l l c o n t i n u e to do so to t he

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c o n c l u s i o n o f trial. SoTHE DEFENDANT: Your Honor?THE COURT: Mr. Young - -

I m so r ry , Your Honor. I f I mayHE DEFENDANT:j u s t i n t e r j e c t q u i c k l y . I f t h e r e was some th ing I s a i d

15 e a r l i e r t h a t c o n s t i tu t e d an e x - p a r t e communica t ion to t he16 Cour t , may I a m e l io r a t e t h a t now w i t h the C o u r t s17 indu lgence?1819

THE COURT: I w i l l a m e l io r a t e it.Mr. Coughl in d id , in a c l o s e d proceed ing , sugges t

20 t h a t one o f t he w i tne s s e s in t h i s trial was p r i v y to a21 t a p e - r e c o r d i n g o r a v id eo of p a r t o f t he i n c i d e n t t h a t22 o c c u r re d on t h a t day and t h a t t h a t was Mr. Za ra t e . I s23 t h a t c o r r e c t ?24 THE DEFENDANT: I f I may Your Honor I ll - -

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1 THE COURT: Well s o r r y . Was it Mr. Zar a t e?2 THE DEFENDANT: No sir. And I d o n t be l i eve3 y o u r e r e f e r r i n g to t he i n c i d e n t - - t he p a r t i c u l a r4 i n c i d e n t I m r e f e r r i n g t o .5 THE COURT: T h e r e s a d i f f e r e n t i n c i d e n t ?6 MR LESLIE: I t h i nk h e s t a l k in g - - shou ld I7 c l a r i f y ? Would you l i k e me to c l a r i f y ?8 THE COURT: Yeah if it has n o t h i n g to do with9 t h i s trial.

10 MR LESLIE: I d o n t t h i nk it has any th ing to do11 w i th t h i s trial.12 THE COURT: Okay. Well you can c l a r i f y then , if13 you want .

MR LESLIE:4 It s an a l l e g e d i n c i d e n t where one15 of t he w i tne s s e s f l i c k e d a c i g a r e t t e a t Mr. Coughl in .16 THE COURT: But not a t t h i s on t h i s da te?17 MR LESLIE: No.18 THE COURT: T h a t s what w e r e t a l k in g abou t ,19 Mr. Young and t h a t came ou t , b l u r t e d ou t by Mr. Coughl in ,20 t h a t he was ups e t t h a t Mr. L e s l i e had no t b rough t t h a t to21 t he a t t e n t i o n o f t he Cour t .22 MR YOUNG: So l ong as t he C o u r t s - - I d o n t23 t h i nk you w i l l - - so long as t he C o u r t s n o t going to24 c ons ide r t h a t , s i nce it s not ev id en ce in t h i s case .


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1 THE COURT:2 it was imprope r - -3

4

MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:

Well , I ad v i s ed him a t t h a t t ime t h a t

Thank you.- - to do t h a t , and , you know would

5 not be c o n s i d e r i n g it in t h i s tri l6

7

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:

Thank you.- - u n l e s s it was p r e s e n t e d in t h e

8 tri l itself and was not o b j e c t e d to and was a l lowed to be9 h ea r d . So And f r a nk ly , d i d n t have an

10 u n d e r s t a n d i n g o f what it was u n t i l j u s t now.111213 Dura lde .1415 a g a i n .

A l l r i g h t .MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:

Did you want to c a l l y o u r w i tn es s ?Yes. S t a t e w i l l c a l l O f f i c e r

J u s t f o r t h e r e c o rd , I w i l l swear youI know y o u r e p r o b ab ly still unde r o a t h , but w i l l

16 you r a i s e your r i g h t hand .17 (Witness sworn . )1819

THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

20 a n o t h e r pad o f p a p e r .

P lea s e be s e a t e d .Your Honor I m g i v i n g Mr. Coughl in

21 THE COURT: A l l r i g h t .22 Wel l , Mr. Coughl in , j u s t to c l a r i f y t h i s f o r t h e23 r e c o rd , what I had i n s t r u c t e d you to do p r e v i o u s l y was to24 t ype it on your computer , show it to Mr. L e s l i e a t t h e

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1 c onc lus ion , no t i n t e r r u p t him dur ing it But when h e s2 f i n i s h e d examining or he a r ing e v e r y t h i n g t h a t happens , and3 t hen f i n i s h e s h i s c ros s - e xa m ina t ion , t h e n p r e s e n t to him4 any q u e s t i o n s t h a t you wish him to ask .

THE DEFENDANT: Yes Your Honor .A l l r i g h t ?

I d id no t6 r e a l i z e you had i n d i c a t e d not to do it dur ing the proc e s s .7

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THE COURT:dur ing t he p r o c e s s .

Well I d o n t want you doing itI though t I made it c l e a r t he l a s t

9 t ime , because y o u r e i n t e r r u p t i n g Mr. L e s l i e , y o u r e10 i n t e r r u p t i n g h i s a b i l i t y to p r o p e r l y r e p r e s e n t you to11 h e a r what t he w i tne s s i s say ing and to observe t he12 demeanor and e v e r y t h i n g e l s e about t he w i tne s s ; so t h a t if13 y o u r e i n t e r r u p t i n g him h e s not a b le to do t h a t .141516

THE DEFENDANT: Yes sirMR LESLIE: Your Honor ITHE COURT: I can g ive you s u f f i c i e n t t ime a t t he

17 c o n c l u s i o n o f Mr. L e s l ie s c ros s - e xa m ina t ion to c ons u l t18 with him and g i v e him a d d i t i o n a l q u e s t i o n s and t h i n g s t h a t1920

you wish him to do. Al l r i g h t ?THE DEFENDANT: Yes s i r , Your Honor. And I j u s t

21 no te fo r t he r e c o rd t h a t a t t he c onc lus ion o f Mr. Z a r a t e s22 and G o b l e s c ros s - e xa m ina t ions t h e r e was a v e ry b r i e f23 pe r iod where in I was a l lowed to a d d re s s Mr. L e s l i e .24 THE COURT: You know what I m go ing to do I w i l l

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t ake a f i ve -m inu te r e c e s s a t t he c onc lus ion o f2 Mr. D u r a l d e s c ros s - e xa m ina t ion .3 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you sir.4 THE COURT: You w i l l have f ive minutes , which I5 t h i nk s h o u ld be more t han s u f f i c i e n t t ime to show it to

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Mr. L e s l i e .to g r a n t it.

And if he needs more t ime , I would be happyA l l r i g h t ? But let s move on. Right now

8 y o u r e not to i n t e r r u p t t he p roc e s s .9

10THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir.MR LESLIE: Your Honor I d o n t mean t o b e a t a

11 dead hor s e , and it seems l i k e n o t h i n g in t h i s cas e goes2 qu ic k ly , bu t I w i l l say t h i s : I a p p r e c i a t e t he C o u r t s

13 comments because I t h i nk t hey w i l l a s s i s t me in be ing a14 b e t t e r l awyer in t hese proceed ings wi thou t c o n s t a n t l y15 be ing i n t e r r u p t e d and d i s t r a c t e d .16 I w i l l say t h i s , though, I a c t u a l l y do i n v i t e17 Mr. Coughl in t o l ean o v e r and whisper if he has ques t i ons .18 All I ask i s t h a t if I i n d i c a t e to him to h o ld on a moment19 so I can l i s t e n , t h a t he honor t h a t . Other t han t h a t ,20 though, I d o n t have an o b j e c t i o n t o him whisper ing o r21 push ing me no te s d u r i n g , you know any p o r t i o n dur ing the22 wi tness examina t ion , as long as he w i l l r e s p e c t a t t imes I23 need to waive him o f f so I can l i s t e n , and t hen he and I24 can c onfe r .

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THE COURT: Well , t h a t s f a i r .2 MR LESLIE: So I d o n t want him to f e e l t h a t he3 c a n t t a l k to me.

5THE COURT:

Mr. L e s l i e , n o t you.I m l e a v ing it in t he d i s c r e t i o n of

So if he pushes you o f f , t hen y o u l l6 have to honor t h a t , bu t you w i l l have t h e o p p o r t u n i t y7 aga in a t t he c onc lus ion o f t he c ros s - e xa m ina t ion .8 r i g h t ?9

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THE DEFENDANT: Yes, sirTHE COURT: Al l r i g h t . Mr. Young.MR YOUNG: Thank you, Your Honor.

NICHOLAS DURALDE

All

14 p r e v i o u s l y c a l l e d as a w i t n e s s by t he p l a i n t i f f here i n ,15 b e i n g first d u ly sworn, was examined16 and t e s t i f i e d as fo l lows :17 DIRECT EXAMINATION Resumed)18 BY MR YOUNG:19 Q Good morning, sir Could you s t a t e your first20 and l a s t name and s p e l l b o th fo r the r e c o r d i n g .21 A Nicho las Dura lde . F i r s t name, N-I-C-H-O-L-A-S,22 l a s t name, D-U-R-A-L-D-E.23 MR. YOUNG: Okay. And, Your Honor, t h i s i s be ing24 recorded , yes?

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THE COURT: Yes.MR YOUNG: Thank you.THE COURT: Let me t r y to r a i s e it Oh y o u r e

234 s t a nd ing up. I m s o r r y . I do a po log iz e . I d i d n t know5 t h a t you w e r e n t in t he c h a i r .6 MR YOUNG: I d i d n t know you were s t a nd ing7 e i t h e r .8 THE COURT: Well he was way down in9 t he ( i na ud ib l e ) bot tom.

10 MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

I do t he same t h i n g .It w a s n t meant to be t h a t .

12 hones t wi th you you were so low down i n t h e box.13 BY MR YOUNG:

To be

14 Q S i r , cou ld you tell t he Court wi th whom y o u r e15 c u r r e n t l y employed?16171819

AQAQ

The Reno Pol i c e Depar tment .How long have you been so employed?Approx imate ly f i ve and a h a l f y e a r s .Could you tell t he Cour t t he t r a i n i n g s t h a t you

20 d id to become an o f f i c e r from - -21 A I p a r t i c i p a t e d in a 19-week POST academy and22 a f t e r g r a d u a t i n g t h a t went to a 16-week f i e l d t r a i n i n g23 program.24 THE COURT: I m so r ry , what k ind o f t r a i n i n g ?

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2

THE WITNESS:THE COURT:

F i e l d t r a i n i n g program.Oh f i e l d . I j u s t d i d n ' t hear .

3 BY MR YOUNG:45 A

What d id t he f i e l d t r a i n i n g c o n s i s t of?The t r a i n e e o f f i c e r i s coup led wi th a t e n u re d

6 t r a i n i n g o f f i c e r , who b a s i c a l l y works from t he t r a i n i n g7 o f f i c e r , obs e rv ing t o , by t he end o f the t r a i n i n g program8 t he t r a i n e e o f f i c e r i s t r a c k i n g a l l t a s k s r e l a t i v e to t he9 j ob .

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THE COURT: Did you say t e n y ea r o r t e n u re ?THE WITNESS: Tenured.THE COURT: Tenured okay .

13 BY MR YOUNG:141516

QA

And d id you gra dua te o r p a s s t he POST academy?Yes.And d id you p a s s or g r a dua t e from t h i s f i e l d

17 t r a i n i n g program?1819

AQ

Yes.In t he f ive and a h a l f ye a r s as an o f f i c e r , have

20 you r e c e ive d u p d a t ed t r a i n i n g s t h roughou t t h a t t ime?2122

A

23 wel l?24 A

Yes.Okay. And have you passed ll t h o se t r a i n in g s as

Yes.

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Q Okay. S i r , I m going to d i r e c t y o u r a t t e n t i o n toAugust 2 0 th o f 2011. Were you work ing on t h a t n i gh t , on

3 t h a t day?45

AQ

6 c o u r t ?789

AQA

Yes.And d i d some th ing happen which b r i n g s you he re to

Yes.Could you tell t he Judge what was t h a t , p l ease .nitially I was d i s p a t c h e d to a r e p o r t o f a

10 d i s t u r b a n c e o r p o s s i b l e f i g h t in t he a re a of the p l a z a a t11 F i r s t and V i r g i n i a S t r e e t s . While I was d r i v i n g t h e r e12 d i s p a t c h upda ted us s ay in g t h a t l a r c e n y o f a phone had13 o c c u r re d .14 Q The l o c a t i o n t h a t you j u s t d e s c r i b e d , i s t h a t15 here in Reno?16171819

AQAQ

Yes.Washoe County Nevada?Yes.And so t h a t be ing t he a re a o f 10 Nor th V i r g i n i a

20 S t r e e t and Nor th C en te r S t r e e t ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?2122

AQ

Yes.And co u ld you tell t he Cour t as f a r as l andmarks

23 here , so t h e Judge i s f a m i l i a r , what a re a o f town y o u r e24 t a l k i n g abou t?

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That p l a z a i s bordered on one s i d e by t he Truckee2 River , on the so u t h s i d e by t he Truckee River , n o r t h s i de3 by F i r s t S t r e e t , on the west s i de by V i r g i n i a S t r e e t , on4 t he e a s t s i d e by Nor th Cente r S t r e e t .5 Q6 scene?789

AQA

Okay

YesOkay

When you a r r i v e d - - d id you a r r i v e on

And what d id you see o r no t i ce?When I a r r i v e d t h e r e was a group o f peop le on t he

10 Cente r S t r e e t b r i d g e .11 Q T h a t s f a i r . Did d i s p a t c h a dv i s e you of a12 s p e c i f i c s u b j e c t o r g ive you a d e s c r i p t i o n o f a s p e c i f i c13 s u b j e c t14151617

AQ

Q

Yes- - t h a t was t he s u b j e c t o f t he c a l l ?YesOkay And d id you see an i n d i v i d u a l match ing

18 t h a t d e s c r i p t i o n ?19202122

AQ

Q

YesOkayYes

I s t h a t person in t he cour t room today?

Could you t ll t he Judge , p o i n t ou t what h e s23 wearing t oday .24 A Mr Coughl in was t h a t p e r so n . H e s wearing a

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1 be ige su i t23

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:

Okay Your Honor - -The r e c o rd w i l l r e f l e c t t he

4 i d e n t i f i c a t i o n o f t he defendan t , Mr Coughl in .5 BY MR YOUNG:

Q Okay Did you have any con t ac t wi th7 Mr Coughl in?89

10

AQA

YesOkay Could you t ll t he Court how t h a t began?The first t h i ng I r e c a l l sa y i n g to Mr Coughl in

11 was t h a t if he had someone s phone t h a t he co u ld p r o b ab ly12 g iv e t he phone back and t he whole i s s u e would be s e t t l e d13 a t t h a t t ime .14151617

QAQA

OkayYes

And d id Mr Coughl in r espond to you?

What d i d he say?He asked me if I had enough i n fo rm a t ion fo r a

18 Ter r y s t op .1920

Q What happened ne x t , s i r ? Well , l t me - - l e t mes t r i k e t h a t ques t i on . Did you u l t i m a t e - - wi thou t t e l l i n g

21 us what - - s p e c i f i c a l l y what o t h e r s t o l d you d id you have22 t he o p p o r t u n i t y to meet w i th o t h e r i n d i v i d u a l s on scene?2324

AQ

YesDo you r e c a l l t he names o f t h o se i n d i v i d u a l s ?

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12

AQ

Yes; Cory Goble and Nathan Za ra t e .Okay. And d id t hey g ive you i n fo rm a t ion , aga in ,

3 withou t g i v i n g s p e c i f i c s , which a s s i s t e d you in your4 i n v e s t i g a t i o n ?56

AQ

Yes.Al l r i g h t . I w i l l ask you i e i t h e r of them t o l d

7 you a s p e c i f i c l o c a t i o n o f one o f t h e i r phones?89

101112

QAQA

Yes.And do you r e c a l l who t h a t was?I r e c a l l bo th .Okay. And what was t h a t l o c a t i o n ?That l o c a t i o n it was s t a t e d t h a t Mr. G o b l e s

13 phone was in t he d e f e n d a n t s l e f t f r o n t s h o r t s pocke t .141516

Q And d id he?MR LESLIE:MR. YOUNG:

O b j e c t i o n ; he a r s a y .And I m on ly us ing t h a t , Your Honor

17 not fo r the t r u t h , bu t j u s t to e s t a b l i s h what was done18 next as p a r t o f the e f f e c t on the h e a r e r as p a r t of t he19 i n v e s t i g a t i o n . And I m a sk i n g you no t to c o n s i d e r h i s20 t e s t imony in t h a t r e ga rd fo r t r u t h o f t he mat t e r .2122 what?2324

THE COURT:

MR. YOUNG:THE COURT:

His t e s t imony in t h a t r e ga rd as to

I m so r ry ?His not c o n s i d e r h i s t e s t imony fo r

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to de te rmine whether o r not Mr. Coughl in , in f a c t , hadMr. G oble ' s phone?

34

AQ

5 those?6 A

Yes.And what ac t ions were t hos e o r what s t e p s were

I s tood ne a r Mr. Coughl in and I c a l l e d t he phone7 number t h a t Mr. Goble had g iven me, h i s phone number.8 Q And so Mr. Goble gave you - - when you say , h i s9 phone number , Mr. G o b l e ' s phone number?

10 AQ

12 happened?131415161718

AQ

AQ

Yes.Okay. And when you c a l l e d t h a t number, what

I cou ld hear t he phone v i b r a t i n g .Okay. From where?From t he a r e a of Mr. Cough l in ' s l ft f r o n t .Did you, fo r l a c k o f a b e t t e r wordTHE COURT: You heard t he phone o r a phone?THE WITNESS: I heard a phone .

19 BY MR YOUNG:Q Okay. And a t t h i s po i n t had you - - had anybody0

21 i d e n t i f i e d a phone as Mr. Goble ' s phone to you? In o t h e r22 words, had you seen Mr. G o b l e ' s phone a t t h i s j unc tu r e ?23 A No.24 Q Okay. Had Mr. Coughl in handed you over any phone

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1 i d e n t i f i e d as Mr. G o b l e s phone?23 Q

No.So you h ea r d a phone. Was t h a t was what you

4 h ea r d concea led on Mr. Cou gh l in s p e r so n o r ou t in t he5 open?6789

AQ

Q

Concea led on h i s person .Did you s top c a l l i n g t h a t phone number?Yes.And a ga in , when you t e rm ina t e d , f o r l a c k o f a

10 b e t t e r word t h a t phone c a l l , d id you n o t i c e any th ing?11 A Yes. When I t e rm ina t e d the phone c a l l t he12 v i b r a t i n g s topped .1314

Q Okay. At t h a t j u n c t u r e what happened?At t h a t j u n c t u r e I d e t e r min ed t h a t Mr. Coughl in

15 was i n p o s s e s s i o n o f Mr. G o b l e s phone .Q Okay. And you d id what?6

1718

I p la c e d him unde r a r r e s t .Q Okay. And t hen what? In o t h e r words d id you

19 t ake any s t e p s t o r e t r i e v e t he phone o r a phone?20 A Yes. Performed a s e a r c h i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t of21 Mr. Coughl in and took t he phone t h a t had been in t he l e f t22 f ron t pocke t out o f t he pocke t .23 Q Okay. Did you s p e c i f i c a l l y r e a c h in and grab24 t h a t phone?

19


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12

AQ

YesOkay Did Mr Coughl in a t any t ime hand t he

3 phone o v e r to you?4567

AQAQ

NoOkayYes

And he was unde r a r r e s t a t t h i s j unc tu r e ?

When you say , sea rch i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t , cou ld8 you d e s c r i b e t o the Court what t h a t i s .9 A s e a r c h i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t i s an a r r e s t - - I 'm

10 so r ry , a s e a r c h a f t e r someone ' s been t a k e n i n t o cus tody .11 e know t h a t t h e y ' r e be ing t r a n s p o r t e d to t he jail and we12 t ake e v e r y t h i n g out o f t h e i r pocke t s t o a s su re t hey have13 no th ing i l l e g a l o r any th ing t h a t can be used a g a i n s t an14 o f f i c e r that s t r a n s p o r t i n g them 15 Q P r i o r to your s e c ur ing o r s e i z i n g t he phone a f t e r16 h i s a r r e s t , had you a t any t ime gone i n t o Mr C o u g h l i n ' s17 pocke t s p r i o r to t h a t t ime?18192021

AQ

Q

NoAs p a r t of the sea rch , I mean?NoOkay Did you t ake any s t e p s t o d e t e r min e whose

22 phone t h a t was?2324

AQ

YesWhat d i d you do?

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A The phone had a password on it I asked23

Mr. Goble fo r t he password. He was unab le to prov ide

4 Hearsay.5

6

MR LESLIE:


I m going to o b j e c t , Your Honor.

That he asked?Well Your Honor a n y t h i n g t h a t

7 Mr. Goble says would be hearsay .8

9

10

12 head ing .1314

MR YOUNG: T h a t s f i n e .MR LESLIE: I mean I - -THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . Well I - -MR LESLIE: t h i nk t h a t s where we a re

THE COURT: - - w il l s u s t a inMR LESLIE: And I m t r y i n g to be

15 contemporaneous .16 THE COURT: - - t he o b j e c t i o n . What Mr. Goble17 s a i d , bu t no t as to what t he o f f i c e r s a i d .1819

MR LESLIE: Righ t .MR YOUNG: And t h a t s f ine , Your Honor.

20 BY MR YOUNG:21 Q Did you t a k e s t e p s to d e t e r min e whe the r o r not22 t h a t phone t h a t you s e i z e d ou t o f Mr. C o u g h l i n s pocke t 23 was in f a c t Mr. G o b l e s phone?24 A Yes.

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12345

789

10

QA

Lack o f

Honor

Okay WereYesMR LESLIE:

founda t ion .MR YOUNG:MR LESLIE:THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:

y u a b le to make t h a t d e t e rm i n a t i o n ?

I m going to o b j e c t , Your Honor

I f I can, a - -Ca l l s fo r an u l t i m a t e c onc lus ion .

WellP a r t o f h i s i n v e s t i g a t i o n , Your

Okay I w i l l s u s t a i n t he o b j e c t i o n11 as to t he c onc lus ion , bu t no t as to whether o r no t t a k ing12 s t e p s t o de te rmine who the owner was And I guess he can13 q u e s t i o n as to what s t e p s he took and14 MR YOUNG: Could I approach and c o l l e c t E x h i b i t s15 e i t h e r A and B o r 1 and 2 , wha teve r t hey a re?16 THE COURT: Sure . I d o n t know i I have them17 I do18 Are t hese t he e x h i b i t s y o u r e t a l k in g abou t?19 MR YOUNG: Yes And t he s e have p r e v i o u s l y been20 admi t t ed .21 THE COURT: They were a d m i t t e d a t t he mot ion to22 s uppre s s .23 BY MR YOUNG:24 Q As p a r t o f your i n v e s t i g a t i o n in de te rmin ing o r

22


23/74

t a k ing s t eps to d e t e r min e i t he phone you recovered was2 Mr. G o b l e s , d i d you t ake pho tographs o f t he phone t h a t3 you recovered?456789

101112

AQ

Yes.Okay. Taking a l ook a t E x h i b i t s A and B t h a t

have been a dm i t t e d . Do you r e c o g n i z e t hos e pho tographs?AQAQAQ

Yes.What a r e t hos e , s i r ?Those a re pho tographs o f the phone .Who took t hose?I d i d .Okay. And t hose i s t h a t t he phone in que s t ion

13 t h a t w e r e t a l k i n g about?1415

AQ

Yes.Okay. What d id you do wi th t h a t phone a t t he

16 c o n c l u s i o n of your i n v e s t i g a t i o n ?17 A I comple ted a photo r e l e a s e c e r t i f i c a t e , where I18 documented t he phone by p h o to g r ap h in g it and t hen gave it19 back to Mr. Goble .20 Q Okay. And a re t hose p i c t u r e s t r u e and a c c ura t e21 pho tographs o f t he phone t h a t you c o l l e c t e d ?222324

AQA

Yes.So it was r e t u r n e d to Mr. Goble?Yes.

23


24/74

Were you - - what was your ttire t h a t n igh t?In a f u l l p o l i c e un i fo rm.2

3

Q

Q Okay. And you a r r i v e d o r d r i v e up to t he scene ,4 c o r r e c t , in a p a t r o l c a r?5 A Yes.6 Q Was t h a t a marked p a t r o l c a r?

Yes it was.8 Q I d e n t i f y i n g it as a Reno P o l i c e Depar tment9 ve h ic l e ?10111213

AQAQ

Yes.Ligh t s on t op?Yes.And t he whole n ines? Okay.

14 Mr. Coughl in hand you t h i s phone?No.

At any t ime d id

1516171819

AQ At any t ime d id Mr. Coughl in i n d i c a t e to you t h a t

he had a phone? In o t h e r words Mr. G o b l e s phone?No.

Q And t h a t was a bad ques t i on . At any t ime d id20 Mr. Coughl in a dv i s e you t h a t he had Mr. G o b l e s phone?2122 Q

No.I m no t s u re if you remember l e t us know. About

23 from the t ime you a r r i v e d on scene u n t i l t he t ime o f24 Mr. C o u g h l i n s a r r e s t , can you es t i ma t e how l ong w e re

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1 t a l k i n g ?234

Q

c l e a r .

I would e s t i m a t e f i v e minu tes .Okay. And I j u s t want to make s u re t h a t I m

You a d v i se d t h a t when you c a l l e d t he number t h a t5 was Mr. G o b l e s number t h a t was prov ided to you you s a i d6 t h a t it was - - how do you know it was v i b r a t i n g ? I d o n t7 know if I q u i t e caugh t t h a t .89

101112131415

AQ

I cou ld he a r it.Okay.MR YOUNG: T h a t s all Your Honor.Thank you O f f i c e r .THE COURT: Mr. L e s l i e .MR LESLIE: C o u r t s i ndu lgence , Your Honor.THE COURT: Yeah.MR LESLIE: I m j u s t going to c o n f e r w i th

16 Mr. Coughl in r e a l qu ick .17 Thank you Your Honor. I j u s t wanted to t a l k to18 Mr. Coughl in b e f o r e s t a r t i n g t he c ros s - e xa m ina t ion .1920


Al l r i g h t .Your Honor do you o b j e c t t o me

21 s i t t i n g w h i l e I examine t h e w i t n e s s?22234


No I do no t .Thank you Judge.

25


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1 CROSS EXAMINATION2 BY MR LESLIE:3 Q O f f i c e r , you i n d i c a t e d t h a t you were o r i g i n a l l y4 d i s pa t c he d to what you de s c r ibe d as a d i s t u r b a n c e o r a5 p o s s i b l e f i g h t ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?

7AQ

YesAnd t h a t be fo re you a r r i v e d on scene , d i s p a t c h

8 upda ted you and s a i d t h a t it might have something to do9 with t he l a r c e n y o f a phone?

1011

A

QYesDo you r e c a l l t e s t if y i n g p r e v i o u s l y a t t he mot ion

12 t o suppress?13141516

A

QA

Q

YesAnd t h a t was l a s t week?YesAnd my no te s r e f l e c t t h a t ll you s a i d a t t h a t

17 p o i n t wi th r e g a r d to t he upda te on the numerous occas ions18 t h a t bo th counse l asked you abou t t he upda ted i n fo rm a t i o n19 from d i s p a t c h was t h a t t he upda te was t h a t it might be a20 l a r c e ny . Do you r e c a l l t h a t ?21 A I d o n t .22 Q So you s a i d back a t the s u p p r e s s i o n he a r ing t h a t23 t he upda te i n fo rm a t ion from d i s p a t c h was t h a t it might24 i nvo lve a l a rceny , bu t y o u r e say ing t o d ay fo r t he first

26


27/74

t ime t h a t d i s p a t c h t o l d you it might i n v o l v e t h e l a r c e ny2 of a phone?34

AQ

Yes.Okay. So your t e s t imony changed from t he t ime o f

5 t he s uppre s s ion he a r ing l a s t week to today in t h a t r egard?6

7AQ

Yes.Do you have any reason to p r o t e c t y o u r s e l f in

8 t h i s case by making su re t h i s case r e s u l t s in a c o n v i c t i o n9 so t h a t you d o n t ge t sued based on t h r e a t s t h a t

10 Mr. Coughl in may have made?

12131415

AQ

No.Y o u r e aware t h a t h e s made such t h r e a t s ?MR YOUNG: I m j u s t go ing to o b j e c t , no t to t he

que s t ion , bu t t h r e a t s to who? It may be a vague que s t ion .MR LESLIE: I can c l a r i f y .

16 BY MR LESLIE:17 Q Y o u r e aware t h a t Mr. Coughl in ha s p r e v i o u s l y18 i n d i c a t e d t he p o s s i b i l i t y o f f i l i n g s u i t based on h i s19 percep t i on o f how he was t r e a t e d w i t h r e ga rd to t he20 c o n t a c t you had w i t h him t h a t n igh t?21222324

A

QAQ

I h o n e s t l y d o n t r e c a l l t h a t .You ve n o t been made aware o f t h a t ?I d o n t r e c a l l itSo you d o n t r e c a l l whe the r anybody made you

27


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aware of t h a t ?23 Q

No.So t he y cou ld have made you aware o f t h a t , you

4 j u s t d o n t r e c a l l t h a t a t t h i s t ime ; i s t h a t56

AQ

No.i s t h a t poss i b l e? I m t r y i n g to n a i l down

7 whe the r y o u r e sa y i n g I was t o l d abou t t h a t , bu t I d o n t8 remember it o r I v e never been t o l d about t h a t o r I have9

10been t o l d about t h a t . Could you h e l p c l a r i f y t h a t fo r us?

A I f any t h r e a t s had been made a l a w s u i t aga i ns t11 mysel f r e f e r e n c e my c o n t a c t w i th Mr. Coughl in , I m not12 aware o f it13 Q Okay. And you i n d i c a t e d when you first a r r i v e d14 on scene and some o f t h i s may be r edundan t to what you15 t e s t i f i e d to l a s t week thank you.16 Pardon me.17 THE COURT: No problem.18 BY MR LESLIE:19 Q You i n d i c a t e d when you a r r i v e d on scene t h a t you20 were uni fo rmed?21222324

QAQ

Yes.You had a gunYes.

t h a t was v i s i b l e to t he pub l i c ?

28


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1234

6789

1011121314

AQA

QAQAQA

QAQAQ

Yes.You a r r i v e d in a marked p o l i c e c a r?Yes.With l i g h t s and s i r e n s ?y l i g h t s and s i r e n s w e r e n t a c t i v e in t he day.

But I mean t h e y a re on t he v e h i c l e ?They a re on t he v e h i c l e , yes .And y o u r e RPD i s i t ?Yes.So it s t he b l a c k and whi te p o l i c e c a r?Yes.Recogn izab le to t he p u b l i c as a p o l i c e ca r?Yes.Okay. Now when you first a r r i v e d on scene , you

15 go t ou t o f your v e h i c l e , and I b e l i e v e one o f t he first16 t h i ngs you n o t i c e d was a l a r g e group o f peop le su r round ing17 Mr. Coughl in?1819

A

QYes.And I t h i n k we e s t a b l i s h e d t h a t t h a t was anywhere

20 from in your e s t i m a t i o n , 8 to 12 p eo p le rang ing in age21 from a p a r e n t t o t e e n a g e r s to e a r ly 20s?222324

A

QA

Yes.And t h e y were a g i t a t e d ?Yes.

9


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Q They ap p ea r ed to be angry o r h o s t i l e towards2 Mr. Coughl in , from what you cou ld t e l l ?3

5

6789

10

AQ

s ide s ?AQ

w i t h i nthem?

A

I

Yes.And t he y were e f f e c t i v e l y su r ro u n d i n g him on a l l

Yes.Some of them were s e a t e d nex t to him very c l ose ,t h i n k you i n d i c a t e d s i x to e i g h t inches , some o f

Yes. He was s i t t i n g down and on e i t h e r s ide of11 him was someone s i t t i n g nex t to him.2 Q Okay. And was anyone beh ind him?

1314

A

QNo.Was t h e r e any r a i l i n g o r any o b s t r u c t i o n beh ind

15 him t h a t would have p re v e n t e d him j u s t l e a v i n g in t h a t16 d i r e c t i o n b eh in d him?1718

AQ

He was s i t t i n g on a r a i l i n g .Okay. And he was s i t t i n g in such a way t h a t he

19 was down l ower t h a n t he peop le who were s t a n d i n g ?2021

AQ

Yes.Okay. And so t he r a i l i n g he was s i t t i n g on I

22 t h i nk you s a i d was o n ly about 18 i n c h e s o f f t he ground?2324

AQ

Yes.Okay. And so j u s t to k ind o f c l a r i f y what I m

30


31/74

as k in g abou t w i t h r e g a r d to an y th in g b e in g b e h i n d him; was2 t h e r e any o b s t r u c t i o n , r a i l i n g , w a l l , e t c e t e r a , beh ind3 him as he s a t in t h a t p o s i t i o n ?4 A There was no th ing b e h i n d him. The s t r e e t was5 beh ind him o t h e r t h an t he r a i l i n g he was s i t t i n g on.6 Q Okay. And were t h e r e any o f t h e s e young p e o p l e7 p o s i t i o n e d b eh in d him?8 A

Q

No.Okay. And t h en some o f them were s t a n d i n g w i t h i n

10 a f o o t o r two o f him?11 A I d o n t r e c a l l how c l o s e t h e p eo p le were to him12 t h a t were s t a n d i n g .1314151617

QAQAQ

But some o f them were s t a n d i n g ?Yes.In f r o n t o f him?Yes.And would you e s t im a te a g a i n , how many - - and I

18 u n d e r s t a n d it s an es t i ma t e , b u t how many o f t he s e peop le19 were s t a n d i n g i n f r o n t o f him as opposed to t h o se s i t t e r s ?2021

A

QAn e s t i m a t e would be maybe fo u r o r f ive .Okay. And we h ea r d t e s t i m o n y from a n o t h e r

22 w i tne s s , so I d o n t know what you saw b u t d i d you see any23 o f t h e p e r so n s su r ro u n d i n g him e v e r p u t t h e i r hands on h i s24 b ic yc l e ?

31


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23 him?4

AQ

AQ

Not t h a t I r e c a l l .Okay.

No.Okay.

Did you e v e r see them pu t t h e i r hands on

Would it be s a f e to say t h a t it appeared6 t h a t t h e y had him su r rounded and he was no t in a p o s i t i o n7 t o l eave?89

10

AQA

Yes.And s e v e r a l o f them had sk a t e b o a rd s?I r e c a l l peop le hav ing s ka t e boa rds . I c o u l d n ' t

11 say how many t h e r e were .Q I t hough t the word s e ve ra l might be t h rowing2

13 you fo r a c u rv e . But t h e r e were s a f e t o say , more than14 one s ka t e boa rd amongst t h i s group?1516

AQ

Yes.Okay. And d id t hey , in f a c t , ap p ea r to be a

17 group o f peop le i n c l u d i n g some s k a t e r s , fo r l a c k of a18 b e t t e r t e rm?19 A Yes.20 Q Okay. Safe to say a s ka t e boa rd cou ld be used to21 i n f l i c t s e r i o u s b o d i l y harm i swung a t and s t r u c k a22 person?2324

AQ

Yes.Okay. In f a c t , as an o f f i c e r , i you were

32


33/74

1 c o n f ro n t e d wi th somebody with a s ka t e boa rd and you though t2 t hey were h o s t i l e towards you you would be on a l e r t , so3 to speak?4 A

QYes.Mr. Coughl in was no t wear ing p r o t e c t i v e c l o t h i n g

6 t h a t n igh t , he j u s t had s h o r t s , a T - s h i r t s ty l e s h i r t , and7 a Chicago ha t?89

101112

A

QA

Yes.Okay.Yes.

And he was outnumbered?

MR LESLIE: Sorry , Your Honor. I paused t h e r efo r a moment. I was r ece i v i ng a c a l l f rom Las Vegas bu t

13 I t u rn e d it o f f .14 BY MR LESLIE:15 Q Now you i n d i c a t e d , I b e l i e v e , t h a t you handcuf fed16 him p a r t l y because he was h e s i t a n t to fo l low your1 7 commands?1819

A

QYes.I t h i n k we e s t a b l i s h e d l a s t t ime when I asked you

20 if he was annoying, you a c t u a l l y answered more c o r r e c t l y21 and i n d i c a t e d t h a t you were becoming f ru s t r a t e d ?22 MR YOUNG: Your Honor I m go ing to o b j e c t to23 t h a t as f a r as r e l e v a n c e .24 MR LESLIE: t goes to h i s b ia s , Your Honor.

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1 MR YOUNG: Your Honor and t h a t was - - you2 a l lowed t h a t a t t he mot ion to su p p re s s he a r ing w i th3 r e spec t t o s u p p r e s s i o n . Now t h a t y o u v e r u l e d on t h a t , it4 d o e s n t have any be a r ing w i th r e s p e c t t o any m a t e r i a l f a c t

in t h i s c h a rg e .6

78

MR LESLIE: Your Honor I b e l i e v e it w i l l ify o u l l - - I mean he a l ready t e s t i f i e d to it Al l I wantto do i s co n f i r m t h a t . And I b e l i e v e t h a t wi th a n o t h e r

9 coup le o f q u e s t i o n s t h a t Mr. Coughl in has su g g e s t e d I ask10 t h e r e w i l l be a t l e a s t a c o l o r a b l e c l a i m o f w i tne s s b i a s .11 And I t h i n k the Court shou ld know whether o r no t t h i s12 w i t n e s s1314


Okay. I w i l l o v e r r u l e the o b j e c t i o n .Thank you.

15 BY MR LESLIE:16 Q I b e l i e v e t h a t you based on h i s b e h a v i o r towards17 you you became f ru s t r a t e d ?1819

AQ

Yes.At some p o i n t dur ing your e nc oun te r and your

20 i n t e r a c t i o n s w i t h Mr. Coughl in , d id you o r a no the r o f f i c e r21 have any d i s c u s s i o n o r make any s t a t e m e n t s wi th regard to22 a r r e s t i n g him fo r a f e l o n y ve r s us a misdemeanor?23 MR YOUNG: Again Your Honor I m going to24 ob j ec t to t h a t as r e l e va nc e .

34


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12345

proof?


I mean I - -THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

What i s the re levance?Your Honor may I make an o f f e r o f

What i s t he - -Well 11m i n fo rmed and b e l i e v e t h a t

6 what may have oc c ur r e d i s t h a t one o r more of the o f f i c e r s7 may have s a i d to Mr. Coughl in , lIyou know why d o n t we8 j u s t a r r e s t you f o r a f e l o n y i n s t e a d o f a misdemeanor9 because the b a i l w i l l be h ighe r and we d o n t have to j u s t

10 i s s u e you a c i t a t i o n , we can hau l you up to jail r i g h t11 now.12 And 11m t r y i n g to e s t a b l i s h whether o r not t he re13 was some s o r t o f m ot iva t ion o r r e t a l i a t i o n a g a i n s t14 Mr. Coughl in .151617

THE COURT:MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

Well I d o n t unde r s t a nd .Can I f i n i s h my o f f e r ?

You d o n t have to - - w e l l , I j u s t18 have a ques t i on .1920

MR LESLIE: Okay.THE COURT: Whether o r no t he was charged wi th a

21 fe lony o r a misdemeanor t h e y d o n t have to i s s u e a22 c i t a t i o n .2324

MR LESLIE: Your Honor. Hold on. Your Honort h i s oc c ur r e d l a t e a t n igh t . t was no t commit ted

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1 a l l e g e d l y commi t ted in t h e o f f i c e r s p r e s e n c e . It s o u r2 p o s i t i o n t h a t t h e y may no t have been j u s t i f i e d in t a k ing3 him i n t o cu s to d y and p l a c i n g him a t t h e jail t h a t n i gh t ,4 u n l e s s it was f o r a f e l o n y . I f he was in f a c t , a r r e s t e d

fo r a f e l o n y . H e s now cha rged w i th a p e t t y l a r c e ny ,6 which means t h a t t h e D.A. has made t h e d e t e r m i n a t i o n t h a t7 t h e g ra n d l a r c e n y was no t an a p p r o p r i a t e ch a r g e .8 t r y i n g t o f i n d o u t if t he o f f i c e r o r o f f i c e r s were9 mo t iv a t ed a g a i n s t - -

I m

10 THE COURT: I ll a l low you a few q u e s t i o n s , bu t11 I - -12 MR YOUNG: I ll renew my o b j e c t i o n .13 THE COURT: A l l r i g h t . O b j e c t i o n i s ove r ru l e d .14 Y MR LESLIE:15 Q So was t h e r e any such d i s c u s s i o n abou t a r r e s t i n g16 fo r a f e l o n y ve r s us a misdemeanor?1718192021

AQA

r e c a l lQ

I d o n t r e c a l l any d i s c u s s i o n .By y o u r s e l f o r by o t h e r o f f i c e r s ?I d o n t r e c a l l any d i s c u s s i o n by my s e l f .

t h a t Mr. Coughl in was a r r e s t e d f o r a f e l o n y .But was it your u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h a t if you

I do

22 a r r e s t e d him f o r a misdemeanor you would n o t be a b l e to23 se a rc h him i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t , you would i n s t e a d i s s u e him24 a c i t a t i o n ?

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1 A As t he v a l u e o f t he phone s t a t e d to me was 300,2 and over t he grand l a r c e n y 1111 say over t he amount fo r3 p e t t y l a r c e n y t made t a grand l a r c e n y I d i d n l t look4 i n t o whether Mr. Coughl in q u a l i f i e d f o r a c i t a t i o n or no t .5 Q Mr. Coughl in a t one po i n t gave h i s ba r number; i s6 t h a t c o r r e c t ?789

THE COURT:MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

10 BY MR LESLIE:

11m s o r r y . At one p o i n tGave h i s ba r number .

Oh, gave h i s ba r number . Okay.

11 Q I don l t expec t you to remember t he ba r number,12 but do you remember him g iv ing h i s name and t hen r e c i t i n g13 h i s ba r number?14 I r e c a l l him i d e n t i f y i n g h im s e l f as a lawyer . I15 don l t r e c a l l a n y t h i n g more s p e c i f i c .16 Q Did you o r d id any of t he o t h e r o f f i c e r s in your17 presence i n d i c a t e to him t h a t t hey o r you might c a l l the18 s t a t e ba r and r e p o r t him fo r h i s behav io r?1920 Q

I don l t r e c a l l .Are you denying t h a t t h a t happened o r you j u s t

21 c a n l t remember one way o r t he o the r?222324

AQA

I d o n l t remember one way o r t he o t h e r .Okay. So t h a t might have happened then?Yes, t might have .

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2

Q Okay.MR LESLIE: Cour t l s i ndu lgence , Your Honor.

3 BY MR LESLIE:4 Q At one po i n t p r i o r to a c t u a l l y a r r e s t i n g him, you5 had p la c e d your hands on him; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?6

7

101112

A

Q

Honor.

Yes .Okay. And he exc la imed d u r i n g t h a t something to

MR YOUNG: O b j e c t i o n as to what he t hough t , YourNo way t he o f f i c e r can know t h a t .

MR LESLIE: Very w e l l . 1111 r ephrase .13 BY MR LESLIE:14151617

QA

QA

18 p e n i s .19 Q

He s a i d , Donl t touch my pe n i s ?T h a t l s no t what I r e c a l l him s a y ing .What do you r e c a l l him say ing about t h a t i s s ue ?I r e c a l l him y e l l i n g t h a t I was t ouch ing h i s

Okay. Was t h a t one o f the t h i n g s t h a t f r u s t r a t e d20 you about him?21 MR YOUNG: Again, Your Honor, 1111 o b j e c t as to22 r e l e va nc e . t d o e s n l t prove or d i s p rove any f ac t o r23 consequence . t S i r r e l e v a n t .24 THE COURT: What i s t he r e l e v a n c e ?

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12

MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

Goes to w i tne s s b i a s , Your Honor.Again I ll a l low it fo r t he l i m i t e d

3 purpose and o v e r r u l e t he ~ b j e c t i o n4 THE WITNESS: I d o n t r e c a l l s p e c i f ic a l l y if t h a t5 made me more f r u s t r a t e d o r no t .6 BY MR LESLIE:7 Q But in any event , t h a t oc c ur r e d p r i o r to your8 d e t e r m i n a t i o n to a r r e s t ?9

10A Yes.

And h is - - h is h e s i t a n c e t o fo l low your commands11 o c c u r re d p r i o r to your d e c i s i o n to a r r e s t ?1213

A Yes.And h i s prov id ing h i s name and p o s s i b l y h i s ba r

14 number bu t no t answer ing your ques t i on , oc c ur r e d p r i o r to15 your de t e rmi na t i on to a r r e s t ?1617

A Yes.And h i s q u e s t i o n i n g whe the r you had a u t h o r i t y

18 unde r Te r ry oc c ur r e d p r i o r to your d e t e r m i n a t i o n t o19 a r r e s t ?2021

A Yes.And your f r u s t r a t i o n , as you d e s c r i b e d it a t t he

22 l a s t h e a r i n g , e x i s t e d p r i o r to your d e t e r m i n a t i o n to23 a r r e s t ?24 A Yes.

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Q About how l ong was it between t he t ime t h a t you2 first o b s e r v ed Mr. Coughl in b e in g e n c i r c l e d by t he h o s t i l e3 young peop le and the t ime t h a t you d e t e r min ed to a r r e s t4 him?5 A Bes t e s t i m a t e would be between f i v e and t en6 min u te s7 Q And how much t ime took p la c e between when you8 initially a r r i v e d on scene and you saw pu t eyes on who9 you now i d e n t i f y as Mr. Coughl in?

10 A Very s h o r t p e r i o d o f t ime I d say no more t han11 15 seconds121314

QAQ

Okay.Yes.Okay.

Immedia te?

And how much t ime between your initial15 a r r i v a l and when you d e t a i n e d him?16 A I made t h e de te rm ina t ion t h a t he was no t f r ee to17 l eave when I saw him and he fit t he d e s c r ip t i o n g iv en by18 d i s p a t c h19 Q Okay. And t hen how much t ime between t he t ime20 you initially a r r i v e d and t he t ime you p l a c e d him in21 c uf f s ? And was it you t h a t p la c e d him in t he c u f f s ?2223

A

QYes.Okay So how much t ime between your initial

24 a r r i v a l on scene and t hen c l i c k i n g t he c u f f s on t o h i s

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1 w r i s t s ?2345

A

A

A co u p le min u t e s .Two minutes?Two t o t h r e e minutes , p e rh a p s .MR LESLIE: Your Honor I know t h i s has been a

6 long trial, bu t I need a s h o r t break to r ev iew a v ideo7 c l i p t h a t m a y o r may n o t be s u b j e c t o f f u r t h e r8 c ros s - e xa m ina t ion , bu t I need to doub le -check its c on te n t s9 be fo re I p ro c e e d .

10 THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

How l ong do you t h i n k it w i l l t ake?Not long . No more t h a n t e n minutes .

12 The coun ty l ap t op t a ke s a little whi le to boot up but13 t hen it shou ld be j u s t a few minutes beyond t h a t . It s a14 s h o r t c l i p .15 And t he r e a so n I m a sk i n g f o r t h i s i s I m aware16 of t he c o n t e n t s and I have an o p i n i o n1718

THE COURT:g ive you t he t ime

T h a t s f i n e . My ques t i on i s I llI m j u s t wonder ing if we shou ld

19 reconvene a t 1:30 o r reconvene a t t e n to 12:00 and then20 MR LESLIE: I would sugges t we reconvene a t t e n21 to 12 :00 .22 THE COURT: You re on ly go ing to t a ke a couple23 minute s?24 MR LESLIE: I m going to r ev iew it and - -

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1 THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . Then w e l l t a k e a2 10-minu te r e c e s s .345

MR. LESLIE: Thank you, Your Honor.THE COURT: Hopefu l ly w e l l f i n i s h . But I am

going to have to s t o p prompt ly a t noon. We a re schedu led6 fo r t he a f t e r n o o n as w e l l .789

101112131415

Honor.

MR. LESLIE: I f i gu re d we were .THE COURT: I m s o r r y .MR LESLIE: I f i g u r e d we were .THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .

Recess t aken .MR. LESLIE: Thank you f o r t h a t b re a k , Your

I t h i n k we can go back on t he r e c o rd .THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .Would you p l ease come up. Y o u r e still unde r

16 oa th .17 Witness resumed t he w i tne s s s t and . )18192021

THE COURT: Mr. L e s l i e .MR LESLIE: Yes, Your Honor. J u s t a moment.Your Honor, it s a p p a re n t w e r e n o t going to wrap

up t h i s c ros s - e xa m ina t ion by noon. I wonder if we cou ld22 go ahead and r e c e s s u n t i l t he 1 :30-hour , and t hen I can23 f i n i s h my c ros s - e xa m ina t ion . And f r ank l y , wi th the24 i n t e r v e n i n g lunch hour , I can p ro b a b l y make s u re to make

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1 t he c ros s - e xa m ina t ion more e f f i c i e n t .23

THE COURT:MR. YOUNG:

Al l r i g h t . Any ob j ec t i on?I m k in d o f open j u s t to power

4 th rough , bu t I u n d e r s t a n d .

67

THE COURT:MR. YOUNG:THE COURT:

Well , I was too .I s t h a t an o p t i o n ?I would no t have c o n t i n u e d , I would

8 have c o n t i n u e d to 1 :30 be fo re , bu t I was hoping t h a t based9 on r e p r e s e n t a t i o n you might be th rough by 1:00 by

10 12 :00 .1112

I w i l l c on t inue , t hen , u n t i l 1:30 and apo log izeto t he o f f i c e r fo r t he de lay , Mr. Young as w e l l . But I do

13 want to make s u re t h a t we g i v e a l l p a r t i e s an o p p o r t u n i t y14151617

to be heard . So w e l l see you back t he n .MR. LESLIE: Thank you, Judge.

Lunch r e c e s s t aken . )THE COURT: P l e a se be s e a t e d . I s Mr. L e s l i e

18 here?19 Are you r ead y to do your c ros s ?2021222324

MR LESLIE: Yes, Your Honor.THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . We need O f f i c e r Dura lde .

Do you want to come back up. Or Dura lde (p ronounc ing) .THE WITNESS: Duralde , sirTHE COURT: Dura lde (pronounc ing) I m s o r r y .

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1 MR YOUNG: Are we back on t he r e c o rd , Your2 Honor I guess .3

45

6

7

THE COURT:

THE CLERK:THE COURT:

Are we on t he record?Yes.Okay. This i s c a se o f S t a t e v .

Zachary B ar k e r Coughl in . And we a re back on t he record .This i s Case 06-3341 . And you a re sworn . And so if

8 y o u l l j u s t r e t a k e t he s t and .9

1011

Mr. L e s l i e .MR LESLIE:

any f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s .Your Honor I d o n t b e l i e v e I have

I have c o n f e r r e d w i t h12 Mr. Coughl in , and I c a n t ge t any s t r a i g h t answers out of13 him abou t any a d d i t i o n a l m a t e r i a l s . I have no f u r t h e r14 que s t ions a t t h i s t ime .15 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor e a r l i e r d id you16 i n d i c a t e I d have an o p p o r t u n i t y to c onfe r wi th Mr. L e s l i e17 a t t he c onc lus ion o f h i s c ros s ?181920

THE COURT: Well you d id .THE DEFENDANT: No I d i d n t , sir.MR LESLIE: I m happy t o t a ke f i v e more minutes ,

21 if t he Cour t , p l e a s e .222324 r e q u e s t s .

THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .MR LESLIE: To a f f o r d Mr. Coughl in t he t ime he

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1 THE COURT: I w i l l g i v e you f i v e more minute s and2 t h a t s it, Mr. Coughl in , because we had an i n t e r v e n i n g3 pe r iod of a lmos t t e n minute s be fo re l unch .45 me.

78

THE DEFENDANT: Mr. L e s l i e r e f u s e d to meet with

THE COURT: You were ou t in t he h a l l with him.THE DEFENDANT: No, I w a s n t .MR. LESLIE: Anyway, Your Honor, if we want to

9 t ake the f i v e minu tes .1011

THE COURT: All r i g h t .MR. LESLIE: It w i l l p ro b a b l y t a k e 15 minute s to

12 a rgue t he p o i n t o r we can t ake the f ive minu tes .13 THE COURT: Okay. I w i l l g i v e you f i ve minutes ,14 but t h a t s it.151617

MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:

I ll s t e p ou t , Your Honor.Recess t aken . )

Al l r i g h t . The r e c o rd w i l l r e f l e c t18 t h a t Mr. Coughl in was g iv en t he oppor t un i t y t o c ons u l t19 with c ouns e l .2021

THE DEFENDANT: No s i r , Your Honor, I w a s n t .THE COURT: Well , t h a t i s t he r e c ord . But I - -

22 if you want to do it in c our t w i th me p r e s e n t , you can do23 t ha t .24 THE DEFENDANT: Do what , Your Honor?

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TH COURT: Consu l t wi th him. You j u s t went2 o u t s i d e t o c o n s u l t w i th him.34

TH DEFENDANT: No, I went o u t s i d e and Mr. L e s l i ew o u l d n t meet me ou t t h e r e . Then B a i l i f f Sexton

5 o rd e re d67

TH COURT: Mr. L e s l i e - -TH DEFENDANT: - - me to meet him in t he ha l lway

8 where w i tne s s e s co u ld - -9

10TH COURT: Al l r i g h t . I m n o t go ing to p l a y any

more games, Mr. Coughl in . You can t a l k to him r i g h t here .11 I w i l l ask Mr. Young and t he o t h e r peop le in t he cour t room12 who a re no t cour t p e r so n n e l to s t e p o u t s i d e . I ll g iv e3 you four minutes now.

141516

MR YOUNG:

MR LESLIE:

I ll l eave r i g h t now, Your Honor.Recess t aken . )I m going to make a r e c o rd as wel l ,

17 Your Honor, w i t h r e ga rd t o t he c l i e n t s competency.18 TH COURT: Al l r i g h t . We a re r eady to proceed .19 And t he Cour t , d u r i n g t he r e c e s s , d i d p e r s o n a l l y observe20 Mr. Coughl in t a l k i n g to h i s c o u n se l , a l t h o u g h I d id not21 l i s t e n to a n y t h i n g or he a r any th ing , o t h e r t h a n22 whisper ing , bu t I b e l i e v e t h a t t h e r e has been an a t t empt23 to communicate w i t h Mr. Coughl in . And we w i l l proceed .24 MR LESLIE: Your Honor, if I may, it s my b e l i e f

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1 t h a t Mr. Coughl in i s not l e g a l l y competent to proceed a t2 t h i s t ime. I m go ing to make a motion f o r t he C o u r t s3 d e t e r m i n a t i o n o f whe the r Mr. Coughl in shou ld be examined4 by a p s y c h i a t r i s t to de te rmine if h e s l e g a l ly competent .5 THE COURT:6 examined789

MR LESLIE:THE COURT:MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

So a t t h i s p o i n t t hes h o u l d n t say t h a t .

Well I b e l i e v e he was a l ready

I b e l i e v e he wasin t h i s c a s e .

I b e l i e v e he was.And was d e t e r min ed to be competent .mot ion w i l l be den ied . I wel l , II w i l l g i v e you a chance to argue

10111213 fu r t h e r . I mean I d o n t know if t h e r e s been a change in14 c i rcumstances , s i nce15 MR. LESLIE: Well I t h i nk it s j u s t based on t he16 r e c o rd as a whole . It s I t h i n k f o r t he to a l a rge17 ex t en t it s t he o b s e r v a t i o n s the Court has made o f h i s18 behav io r and h i s r e a so n i n g and menta l s t a t e .19 Yeah I m j u s t r a i s i n g t he i s s u e . I have a20 q u e s t i o n in my mind so (no i se in a ud io . )21 THE COURT: Well I have a q u e s t i o n i n my mind22 bu t I m no t a p s y c h i a t r i s t , and I v e t r i e d to have him23 examined on m u l t i p l e o c c a s i o n s in d i f f e r e n t c a s e s , and in24 every case t he y r u l e d he was competen t .

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2

MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

Okay.I s h o u l d n ' t say they ru l ed . The

3 d i s t r i c t cour t r u l e d he was competen t , based upon t he4 p s y c h i a t r i c e v a l u a t i o n . I d o n ' t know if it was an a c t u a l5 p s y c h i a t r i s t .

78

MR YOUNG: There was two s e p a r a t e ones , YourHonor. There was a psych competency e v a l u a t i o n i n t h i scase and t h e n t h e r e was a where he met w i t h one . I

9 d o n ' t know if it was a s o c i a l worker or o the rw i s e , bu t one1011

i n d i v i d u a l . And t h e r e was in a s e p a r a t e case a competencye v a l u a t i o n where he met w i th two s e p a r a t e d o c t o r s . In a l l

12 e v a l u a t i o n s he was found compe ten t .13 I d o n ' t know if t h e r e ' s been a change be tween14 t hen and now o r if it s j u s t Mr. Cough l in ' s b e h a v i o r15 t h a t ' s p o s i n g t he d i f f i c u l t i e s . But , you know I16 c e r t a i n l y , you know it s not my c a l l whether - - what to17 do. Since it s been r a i s e d , I ll d e f e r to the Court if18 you f ee l it s a p p r o p r i a t e to conduc t a b r i e f he a r ing19 aga in , I ll s t e p ou t . You can ask any q u e s t i o n s , j u s t so20 you can de te rmine whe the r it s warran ted or no t .21 THE COURT: I 'm w i l l i n g to have him examined22 aga in , bu t I do want to f i n i s h w i th t h i s w i t n e s s . And23 h e ' s been h e re m u l t i p l e t imes and h e ' s on the s t a nd , and I24 b e l i e v e a t l e a s t Mr. L e s l i e , you can q u e s t i o n him. So if

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1 you have any q u e s t i o n s .2 MR. LESLIE: Yes.3 CROSS-EXAMINATION RESUMED)4 BY MR LESLIE:

Q O f f i c e r , do you have any r e l a t i o n to t he6 d i s p a t c h e r t h a t d i s p a t c h e d you to t he scene in t h i s case?7 A I d o n t r e c a l l who t he d i s p a t c h e r was bu t my8 wife i s a d i s p a t c h e r .9 Q

10 case?1112

A

Q

And to your knowledge was she i nvo lved in t h i s

Not to my knowledge.Very wel l . Did you n o t i c e any i n c o n s i s t e n c i e s

13 when you a r r i v e d on scene between what t he d i f f e r e n t14 w i tne s s e s were t e l l i n g you had happened?1516

AQ

Not t h a t I r e c a l l .Do you r e c a l l any i n c o n s i s t e n c y between

17 Mr. G o b l e s and Mr. Za ra t e ; one sa y i n g t h a t Mr. Coughl in18 had a l l e g e d l y t a k e n t he phone from some t h i r d p a r t y t h a t19 nobody knows who t h e y a re , and t h e n t he o t h e r say ing t h a t20 Mr. Coughl in j u s t p icked the phone up d i r e c t l y from where21 it was l y ing?2223

A t was my impress ion a t t he t ime o f the case - - Id o n t have any r e c o l l e c t i o n o f t he t h i r d p a r t y . I was

24 l a t e r r e a d ing Mr. Z a r a t e s s t a t e m e n t and n o t i c e d t h a t t he

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t h i r d p a r t y was l i s t e d in it. But a t t he t ime o f t he2 i n c i d e n t I d i d n t have any knowledge o f t h a t .34

6789

MR. LESLIE: I d o n t have any fu r t h e r ques t i ons .THE COURT: Mr. Young do you have any que s t ions ?MR. YOUNG:THE COURT:

No Your Honor.You re f r e e to go. Thank you.

I do n o t e we have - - a re you a w i tne s s , s i r ?AUDIENCE MEMBER: No sir.THE COURT: Okay. Then I - - in l i g h t o f t he

10 conduc t o f t hese p ro c e e d i n g s and e v e r y t h i n g t h a t s11 happened h e r e i n , I do b e l i e v e t h e r e s a t l e a s t a que s t ion12 as to Mr. C o u g h l in s competency go ing all t he way back to

3 t he initial o f f e r to - - o f f e r e d by t he p r o s e c u t i o n and14 what happened on the first day when we were here fo r t he15 b e t t e r p a r t o f an hour and a h a l f .16 So I - - r e l u c t a n t l y I m go ing to o r d e r a n o t h e r17 competency e v a l u a t i o n . But t h i s t ime I am going to ask18 bo th counse l to p ro v i d e t he e v a l u a t o r wi th any19 documenta t ion o r any th ing e l s e t h a t you might have with20 r e spec t t o t he competency and ask t he e v a l u a t o r to review21 h i s p r i o r competency he a r ings , e s p e c i a l l y t he one a t22 NNAMHS when he went t h e r e . And it s my u n d e r s t a n d i n g23 t h e r e was some th ing t h a t happened t h e r e as wel l .24 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor in my s t a t e m e n t j u s t

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t h i s i s no t t he first. And o v e ra l l , he has not ac t ed in away t h a t i s r a t i o n a l to me. And I v e d e a l t wi th thousands

3 of people in t h i s cour t room and he i s d e f i n i t e l y - - I m4 going to say unusua l . So and I - - so I am going to ask5 one more t ime t h a t an eva lua t ion be done in l i g h t of6 w h a t s happened in t h i s case . And if it comes back h e s7 competent w e l l f in i s h the trial.8 But I w i l l advise you s i r , Mr. Coughl in , if it9 comes back t h a t you a re competent t he n I be l i eve you a re

10 o b s t r u c t i o n i s t , so we w i l l f i n i s h t h i s in a reasonablet ime frame in s h o r t orde r .

12 Now I d o n t know how many wi t nesses , do you have13 any l e f t ?1415

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:

No Your Honor.Mr. Les l i e , I m no t asking you to

16 i d e n t i f y wi t nesses o r any th ing r i g h t now bu t i f we17 cont inue the trial how long do you a n t i c i p a t e t he18 defendan t w i l l t ake?192021

MR LESLIE:h i s be ha v io r . I

THE COURT:

It depends a l o t on Mr. Coughl in and

Well h i s behavior i s going to be22 very d i f f e r e n t if we cont inue the trial because I m going23 to have a no the r de t e rmi na t i on of competency and I m not24 going to put up w i t h any a d d i t i o n a l i n t e r r u p t i o n s . We

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w i l l j u s t go s t r a i g h t t h rough .234

MR LESLIE: I - - you know we need to de te rmineif h e s go ing to t e s t i f y .would have any wi t nesses .

Other t h a n t h a t I doubt t h a t II f I had any it would be

5 s h o r t .6 THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .7 MR LESLIE: I mean if t h i s were o t h e r t han h i s8 be ha v io ra l i s s u e s , I would t h i nk when we come back I9 shou ld t h i n k w e l l be done in an hour o r l e s s .

10111213

THE COURT: Typic a l ly , my e xpe r i e nc e has beent he s e t ake abou t 30 days . But I d o n t know how long itwi l l t ake . So do we have t he competency o r d e r here?

All r i g h t . I w i l l s i gn an o r d e r t oday and t hen14 w e l l r e s c he du le once we ge t a de t e rmi na t i on .15 MR LESLIE: Well I would ask t h a t a s t a t u s16 he a r ing be s e t so we have no d i s p u t e as to h i s appearance .

THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . Well t he n I m going to718 se t it ou t . Mr. Young do you have any p r e f e r e n c e fo r a19 t ime f rame?20 MR YOUNG: Your Honor t ak i ng i n t o l i g h t t he21 t ime it t akes t o ge t the e v a l u a t i o n , I would ask fo r it as22 soon as p o s s ib l e , bu t I ll c e r t a i n l y d e f e r to t he Court23 and counse l .24 MR LESLIE: I t h i nk if you pu t it in your orde r ,

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1 La k e s Cross ing co u ld t u r n it a round in two to2 t h r e e weeks. I mean t h a t was done a t t he district c our t3 l e v e l .4 THE COURT: Well , I do want it to be a5 p s y c h i a t r i s t , in my mind, no t a s o c i a l worke r . So am6 going to r e q u e s t t h a t it be a p s y c h i a t r i c e v a l u a t i o n .789

Yes, s i r ?THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, if I may speak.

had two p r e v i o u s p s y c h i a t r i c e v a l u a t i o n s done . And inI v e

10 n e i t h e r o f t hos e c a s e s , and so f a r no t in t h i s case , has11 anyone a r t i c u l a t e d a s p e c i f i c bases f o r why t h e y f ee l1213

t h e y r e done . And I b e l i e v e t he RS r e q u i r e s t h a t tobe - - to be made on t he r e c o rd . I would l i k e an

14 i n d i c a t i o n o f j u s t e x a c t l y how I v e pu t t he q u e s t i o n in my15 competency i n t o p l a y beyond a broad a l l e g a t i o n of , Well ,16 it speaks f o r itself j u s t h i s conduc t t h roughou t17 e v e r y t h i n g .18 THE COURT: Well , I w i l l s p e c i f i c a l l y i n d i c a t e ,19 s i r , t h a t number one20 THE DEFENDANT: I m so r ry , Your Honor . I meant21 with r e ga rd to t he pub l i c d e fe n d e r has never a r t i c u l a t e d22 t h e i r bases f o r doing so .23 MR. LESLIE: Well , Your Honor if he d i s p u t e s24 it - -

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THE DEFENDANT: Whether - -MR LESLIE: And i f he d i s p u t e s it, and you t h i nk

3 h e s competent to proceed , I was j u s t r a i s i n g t he i s sue .4 I mean, I d o n t have any th ing to add in te rms of , you5 know, summariz ing h i s b e h a v i o r and h i s menta l s t a t e o t h e r6 t han what you lve seen in t he s e var i ous proc e e d ings .7 THE DEFENDANT: I t h i nk t h a t would be o b s t r u c t i v e8 to me.9 THE COURT: S i r , wai t a second. So you - - it's

10 your p o s i t i o n y o u l r e competen t to f i n i s h t h i s t r i a l ?THE DEFENDANT: That - - I d i d n t pu t forward a

12 p o s i t i o n i n t h a t r e ga rd . I s a i d l i v e never been g iven a13 s p e c i f i c a r t i c u l a t e d bases fo r why t he p u b l i c defender14 f e e l s t h a t t h a t s an i s s u e . They mere ly r e s t on, oh,15 wel l , it's obv ious , it speaks fo r itself.16 No. I would l i k e a s p e c i f i c , a r t i c u l a t e d ,17 s e r i o u s bases f o r why t he pub l i c d e fe n d e r f e e l s my18 competency i s an i s s u e , because to me it seems l i k e t he s e19 competency e v a l u a t i o n s a re e i t h e r brough t fo r a20 r e t a l i a t o r y r e a s on o r used as some s o r t of s h i e ld fo r t he

21 pub l i c d e fe n d e r a t t imes .2223

THE COURT: I w i l l tell you, my o n l y concern i s Ido not want to be u n fa i r to you in t h e s e proc e e d ings . I f

4 you a re competen t , t hen you can go forward and you can

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1 make an in fo rmed d e c i s i o n as to whether o r no t to t e s t i f y ,2 t hen I have no prob lem wi th f i n i s h i n g it. y concern i s3 t h a t t he be ha v io r you have d i s p l a ye d i s no t r a t i o n a l e in4 t e rms - - I t h ink I v e sa id t h i s be fo re - - I b e l i e v e t h a t5 you a re a b r i l l i a n t person , ve ry smar t , ve ry a r t i c u l a t e ,6 bu t you a l s o have focussed on m i n u t i a to t he po i n t where7 it i s coun t e rp roduc t i ve , bo th to your d e fe n se and to t he8 way you l i v e your life.9 I mean, I v e seen you many t imes , Mr. Coughl in ,

10 in r e n t a l cases , in c r im ina l c a s e s , I know your conduct o r11 a l l e g e d conduc t when you went fo r your menta l h e a l t h12 e v a l u a t i o n , I v e heard s im i l a r - - and a ga in , it s h e a r sa y ,13 bu t s i m i l a r t h i n g s t h a t o c c u r re d a t t he PD s o f f i c e ,14 s im i l a r t h ings have o c c u r re d dow ns ta i r s . As ch ie f Judge ,15 I v e been in fo rmed bo th in w r i t i n g by you and o t h e r s t h a t16 t h e r e have been d i s p u t e s . And even t oday d u r i n g one of17 t he s e p roc e e d ings , you i n d i c a t e d some th ing about t he18 b a i l i f f p u t t i n g h i s foo t in an i n a p p r o p r i a t e p l ace .19 So mean t h e r e i s t h i s h o s t i l i t y between you and20 some peop le who mean you know harm a t a l l , who a c tu a l l y21222324

want to he lp you. And ye t y o u r e c o n s t a n t l y assuming t h a teveryone i s ou t to ge t you here And w e r e not . As afe l low member o f t he bar . I wish t h i s had never happenedto you. I wish we w e r e n t here today .

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1 So I want to g i v e you a f a i r shake . And a t t he2 same t ime if you f e e l t h a t y o u r e r ead y to proceed and3 r eady to go t he n let s f i n i s h it.4 THE DEFENDANT: I asked fo r an a r t i c u l a t e d bases5 to be pu t i n t o t he r e c o rd o r a t l e a s t i n d i c a t e d to me by6 t he pub l i c de fe nde r j u s t i f y i n g any o f t hese t h r e e7 pre v ious , I d id no t make a s t a t e m e n t wi th r e ga rd t o8 whether I f e l t t he y were a p p r o p r i a t e o r no t o r as to my9 competency. I j u s t s t a t e d t h a t t he law r e q u i r e s t h a t by

10 mot ion t hey pu t an a r t i c u l a t e d b a s i s f o r why t hey a re so11 moving fo r one . And I t h i nk t h a t might me - -12 THE COURT: Well I t h i nk t he Court can sua13 spon te do it, t oo .

THE DEFENDANT: And if t h a t s - -THE COURT: And I m you know what w e r e going

141516 to go fo rward . Not on ly t h a t , if you d o n t want17 Mr. L e s l i e t o r e p r e s e n t you you want t o r e p r e s e n t18 your se l f , I w i l l a l low you to do t ha t , too , f o r t he r e s t19 o f t h i s , because you have t h i ngs t h a t you f e e l he d i d n t20 do you can do them.212223

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

24 Mr. Coughl in .

Your Honor - -Do you want to p r o ceed o r what?

I t h i nk t he q u e s t i o n i s to

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THE DEFENDANT: Let t he r e c o rd r e f l e c t Mr. L e s l i e2 i s s m i l ing a t me a t t h i s moment.3 THE COURT: I m t a l k i n g to Mr. Coughl in .4 THE DEFENDANT: I c e r t a i n l y t h i n k t he e x t e n t to5 which t he Court and Mr. L e s l i e have i n t e r j e c t e d my6 competency i n t o t h i s a t t h i s po i n t makes it perhaps78

r e q u i r e d t o have a competency e v a l u a t i o n done . But yes , Iwould p r e f e r t o r e p r e s e n t myse l f . The C o u r t s a l r e a d y

9 ru l ed on t h a t .10 THE COURT: Well i y o u r e found to be11 compe ten t , I see no r e a so n you c a n t r e p r e s e n t y o u r s e l f .12 My reason f o r proceed ing w i th Mr. L e s l i e i n t h i s case i s

3 because I d id no t t h i n k you were competent to r e p r e s e n t14 your se l f .15 THE DEFENDANT: And t h e b a se s fo r r e j e c t i n g t he16 p l e a agreement , was t h a t based on competency?17 MR YOUNG: Your Honor i I may as to any s o r t18 of p l e a n e g o t i a t i o n s , t h a t i s no t a p p r o p r i a t e t o b r ing in19 t he r e c o rd .2021

THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

T h a t s f i n e .As f a r as t he competency eva l ua t i on ;

22 you o rd e re d t he e v a l u a t i o n , I have n o t h ea r d Mr. Coughl in23 say t h a t he f e e l s he i s compe ten t . What my s ugge s t ion24 would be because he has now i n t e r j e c t e d h im s e l f i n t o t h i s

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1 case , t o p r e s e r v e t he r e c o rd , I would su g g e s t we go2 forward w i t h t he e v a l u a t i o n as y o u v e a l r e a d y o rd e re d , we3 w i l l s e t t h i s ou t .4

5

THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

Al l r i g h t .And wel l ge t t h a t . As to whe the r

6 Mr. Coughl in i s go ing t o r ep resen t h i mse l f , t h a t i s an7 e n t i r e l y s e p a r a t e i s s u e . And f r ank l y , shou ld not be8 decided - - because t h e r e s an orde r f o r competency9 pending, shou ld no t be a d d re s se d now. We can a d d re s s t h a t

10 l a t e r , bu t it s a t o t a l l y s e p a r a t e i s s u e , whether h e s11 competen t to proceed .12 The f i na l t h i ng I d l i k e to ask i s j u s t what t he13 C o u r t s i n c l i n a t i o n i s as to Mr. C o u g h l i n s cus tody s t a t u s14 pend ing t he ps yc ho log ic a l e v a l u a t i o n .1516

THE COURT: My i n c l i n a t i o n i s t h a t h i s cus todys t a t u s rema in as it i s . I d o n t even know what - - a re you

1 7 OR d , sir?1819

THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir.THE COURT: And cond i t i ons ; Cour t S e r v i c e s

2 supe rv i s i on or?

21 THE DEFENDANT: No. I m no t under any cond i t i ons22 t h a t - - I d o n t have Cour t S e r v i c e s s u p e r v i s i o n , s i r .23 Whether o r no t I have any o t h e r c o n d i t i o n s , I - -24 THE COURT: Well hang on because the c l e r k w i l l

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1 tell me.2 THE CLERK: There was cas h b a i l pos t e d .3 THE COURT: You have cash b a i l pos t e d , sir.4 THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir.5 THE COURT: So t h e r e a re no c o n d i t i o n s . And I m6 not going to c ha l l e nge h i s s t a t u s , bu t we w i l l p ic k a da te7 r i g h t now.8 THE CLERK: Are we s e t t i n g it fo r a p r e t r i a l ?9 MR YOUNG: It s no t a p r e t r i a l .

10 THE COURT: No. No. It s a c o n t i n u e d trial11 da t e . w e l l , a c t u a l l y it s a s t a t u s .12 Do you want it as a c o n t i n u e d trial da te o r a13 s t a t u s ?14 MR YOUNG: The S t a t e i n t e n d s - - I m not going to15 do a n y t h i n g w i t h r e s p e c t to t he S t a t e s case , because16 t h e r e s t he q u e s t i o n o f competency bu t it s the S t a t e s17 i n t e n t i o n to r e s t as soon as t h a t i s s u e i s r e s o lve d . So I18 am okay s e t t i n g it fo r a con t inued trial d a t e .19 MR LESLIE: T h a t s f ine , Your Honor. I t h i n k20 depending on what21 THE COURT: Why d o n t we s e t it a round 60 days ,22 because t h a t shou ld g ive us p l e n t y o f t ime .23 MR LESLIE: T h a t s more t han we need.24 MR YOUNG: T h a t s way more t han we need.

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23

THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor?THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .THE DEFENDANT: Might it be p e r m i s s i b l e to a l low

4 Mr. L e s l i e to c on t inue h i s c ros s - e xa m ina t ions t oday o f5 Mr. Za ra t e w h o s been ca l l ed?6

78

THE COURT: No.MR LESLIE: Not if my c l i e n t i s no t compe ten t .THE COURT: T h e r e s no t go ing to be any more

9 p ro c e e d i n g s t o d ay u n t i l we d e t e r min e your competency.10 THE DEFENDANT: Well even if t h a t r e s u l t e d in a11 ne ga t ive de t e rmi na t i on , Mr. L e s l i e has no t seemed to r e l y12 upon my i npu t in any r e s p e c t .13 MR LESLIE: Your Honor you made a r u l i n g . I14 mean he ll argue wi th you a l l day.151617

THE COURT: Welre done sir.THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir.THE COURT: Welre going to s e t a d a t e . Everyone

18 t h i n k s it s too f a r ou t , so1920

212223 work?24

MR LESLIE:MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:THE CLERK:

MR LESLIE:

I t h i nk no more t h a n 30 days .I agree .Al l r i g h t .Second week of Oc tober , would t h a t

Can I check something?

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1 MR. YOUNG: A c tua l ly , i s t h a t October 8 th? I m2 in j u r y trial, so no.

THE COURT: I m not here t he end o f Septembert he beg inn ing of Oc tober . I m going to be a t t e n d i n g aj u d g e s c onfe r e nc e . So t he fo l lowing week.

3

4

5

6 MR. YOUNG: So if we can do it l a t e r in October .7 Real ly , October 8 t h and 9 th would be bad f o r me bu t even8 l a t e r t h a t week would be okay.9

10

121314151617

THETHEMR.MR.THETHETHETHETHE

CLERK:COURT:YOUNG:LESLIE:COURT:CLERK:COURT:CLERK:COURT:

I can do t he 10 th o r 11 th .1 0 th o r 1 1 th work?11 th would be f i n e .

The 11 th i s f i ne .What day i s t he 11th?Thursday.W ha t s wrong wi th ThursdayWait . I m s o r r y . Y o u r e r i gh t .Thursdays Judge Pearson does CCPs

18 it s mandatory I do p l e a s , un le s s - - t hen w e d have to19 c a l l in a no the r Judge , so Wednesday would be b e t t e r .2021

MR. YOUNG: T h a t s f i n e .MR. LESLIE: I d o n t know if it he l ps , bu t I

so

22 c a n t imagine - - I would t h i n k t h a t we co u ld s t a r t in t he23 a f t e rnoon , if t h a t works fo r eve rybody . I mean w e r e down24 to--

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THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

I ha te to - - I want to f i n i s h t h i s .I j u s t would h a t e to conf i rm fo r t he2

3 lOth if my j u r y trial goes i n t o t h a t day. I s t a r t on the48th5 THE COURT: Are you s u r e t he 11 th? How about t he6 fo l lowing week?789

10

MR YOUNG: The fo l l owi ng week i s f ine .MR LESLIE: Let me j u s t check . Yes.THE COURT: Monday work?MR LESLIE: Anytime the week o f t he 15 t h would

11 work.1213 a t 9:00 .

THE COURT:And we w i l l

L e t s do it s t a r t i n g in the morningand I promise you t h i s , t h e r e

14 w i l l not be any r ece s se s o r any of t h a t kind o f s t u f f .15 We re j u s t going to go s t r a i g h t t h rough .1617181920

21

MR YOUNG: October 15 t h a t 9:00?THE COURT: Yes.MR YOUNG: Thank you.MR LESLIE: And, Your Honor, i s your c l e r k going

to provide a w r i t t e n n o t i f i c a t i o n of t ha t ? They sometimesdo t h a t in cou r t f o r pr e l ims and t h ings l i k e t h a t . I

22 d o n t want to have to come back and l i t i g a t e wi th23 Mr. Coughl in about whether he r ece ived n o t i c e when h e s24 s i t t i n g r i g h t he r e l i s t e n i n g to t h i s .

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THE COURT: Well w e l l g i ve him a s l i p .MR LESLIE: Thank you 2

3 THE COURT: What we normal ly do - - Mr. Coughl in ,4 fo r the r eco rd , what we normal ly do i s pr ov ide the5 de fe nda n t s w i t h a s l i p t h a t has t he title on it t he da t e6 and t ime . And I m going to ask t he c l e r k to r e a d the s l i p7 t h a t s go ing to be handed to you so t h a t t h e r e s no8 q u e s t i o n a s to what was given to you.9 THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir Your Honor. May I

10 ask- THE COURT: Wait a second, sir.12 THE CLERK: Date to appea r i s October 15th , 201213 a t 9:00 a.m. f o r s a i d trial.14 THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . So t h a t s - - fo r the15 r eco r d , t he bailiff has handed t h a t s l i p to Mr. Coughl in16 which i n d i c a t e s t he d a t e and t ime fo r t he con t i nued trial.1718

Mr. Coughl in - - what does he want to say?THE DEFENDANT: The wi tnes s es t h a t were

19 subpoenaed Dawson and Temple ton t hey d id no t show up to20 e i t h e r the supp re s s ion hea r ing o r t he trial he r e .21 b e l i e v e it was because a t the J u l y 16 t h da te , the22 a t t o r n e y

I

23 THE COURT: S i r , you can d i s c u s s t h a t with your24 a t t o rney .

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1

23

4

MR LESLIE: Thank you Your Honor .(Recording t u rne d o f f a t 2:12 p.m.)

(Recording t u rne d back on . )MR LESLIE: - - c o o p e ra t e w i t h the in t e rv i e w s

5 t hey r e q u i r e ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?THE COURT: Well I m going to do an orde r t h a t6

7 he has to have t he e v a l u a t i o n . Do you have a b lan k order?8 Can one o f t he b a i l i f f s b r i n g me a copy o f t he o rde r , a9 copy of our o r d e r f o r e va lua t ion?

1011

THE BAILIFF: Yes Your Honor.THE COURT: I ll tell you e x a c t l y what it says .

12 And t hen , bu t - -1314

MR YOUNG: And t h a t was the r e a so n I asked aboutcus tody s t a t u s . I j u s t want to make s u re if it s ordered

15 by t he Cour t t h a t it g e t s done be fo re t h i s new da t e .16 THE COURT: Well I w i l l o r d e r t h a t r i g h t now.17 j u s t want to r ev iew what our form o r d e r says , and t hen I18 may even fill it ou t r i g h t here r i g h t now and g ive19 Mr. Coughl in a copy .20

212223

MR LESLIE: That would be a p p r o p r i a t e .THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor?THE COURT: Yes sir.THE DEFENDANT: J u s t wi th r e s p e c t t o t he ex t en t

24 to which you broached t he s u b j e c t e a r l i e r abou t what you

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1 had h ea r d about Lake ' s Cross ing ; pre v ious d i f f i c u l t i e s2 w i th La k e ' s C ro s s i n g r e l a t e d j u s t to t h a t i s s u e o f what3 does t h i s r e q u i r e o f t he defendan t , i s it a b lank check?4 I s Mr. Dogan a l lowed to read what m e d i c a t i o n s I t ake i n t o5 t he open r e c o rd and announce it in open c o u r t as he did?6 THE COURT: I am no t - - I 'm j u s t say ing t h a t7 t h e r e were prob lems .89

THE DEFENDANT: ButTHE COURT: Whether t h e y were even - - maybe t he

10 problem was t h a t La k e ' s Cross ing d id some th ing to you.11 But I am go ing to o r d e r and s i g n t h i s r i g h t now.12 t says you w i l l fill in t he c a se number.13 Do you have a D.A. number?1415

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:

D.A. number i s 432068.And t h i s i s Case No. R R 2011-063341.

16 And upon motion o f counse l fo r the defendan t here i n , and17 good cause a p p e a r i n g t h e r e f o r , it i s hereby o rd e re d t h a t18 t he de fendan t be examined by a p s y c h i a t r i s t . I 'm not19 going to have a p s y c h i a t r i c s o c i a l worker o r o t h e r person20 who i s s p e c i a l l y q u a l i f i e d by t he D i v i s i o n __ I 'm even21 going to d e l e t e t h a t , because f o r t he purpose o f22 de te rmin ing if the d e f en d an t i s no t o f s u f f i c i e n t23 ment a l i t y t o be a b le t o u n d e r s t a n d t he n a t u r e of t he24 c r im ina l c h a rg e s a g a i n s t him, and two, if because o f

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1 mental i n s u f f i c i e n c y , t he defendant i s not a b l e t o a id and2 a s s i s t counse l in t he defense i n t e r p o s e d upon the trial o r3 a g a i n s t a pronouncement of judgment t h e r e f o r . t I s4 f u r t he r or de r ed t h a t t he defendant i s to a ppe a r __ now56

t h i s i s t he problem.e v a l u a t i o n h e a r i n g .

This i s only fo r t he competencySo I 'm going t o pu t , I t i s f u r t he r

7 or de r ed t h a t t he de fe nda n t i s to appea r __ no we d o n ' t8 have the t ime o r any th ing , so I can j u s t say , f o r sa id9 e v a l u a t i o n a t Nevada Menta l Hea l th , o r o ~ d id you want

10 it f ramed so t h a t I 'm going t o pu t , fo r t he mental11 h e a l t h e v a l u a t i o n and coope r a t e wi th t he e v a l u a t o r on the12 da t e and t ime s e t fo r s a i d eva lua t i on . And it i s f u r t he r13 orde re d t h a t t he defendant appea r be fo re myse l f . 14 Now we have to put a t ime f o r t he competency15 e v a l u a t i o n h e a r i n g .16 MR. LESLIE: I d o n ' t know why it c ou l dn ' t be the17 same t ime as t he trial da te , because if h e ' s competent ,18 w e ' l l j u s t proc e e d ; and if h e ' s no t , t hen we won ' t be ab l e19 t o .2021 d a t e .2223

THE COURT:

THE CLERK:THE COURT:

24 9:00 a .m.?

Right . W e' l l j u s t s e t it fo r t h a t

October 15th .The 15 t h day of October , 2012 a t

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23

4

THE CLERK: Yes.THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor?THE COURT: Sorry , sir.THE DEFENDANT: May I make - - ask a que s t ion .

5 Had you p r e v i o u s l y i n d i c a t e d you were r e q u i r i n g b

9 5 12 cr12-2025 063341 transcript by lynn stubbs 0204 full

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