watchgeek archive 2 of invicta dubois fiasco

Blade

05-16-2010, 07:03 PM

I know there are already at least a few threads out there about the DD movement mods and the TTV

Speedway, so forgive me for starting another. The reason for starting this thread is that there have been

a handful of posts that reference problems with DD mods; however, nobody has provided any links and

I'm coming up short trying to find anything credible yet (Google-ing) speaking of issues.

If you have found info speaking of issues, please provide links.

Thank you

Flyback

05-16-2010, 07:04 PM

That's because there aren't any. I spent a long time searching for them on Google and they simply don't

exist. When those posting have been asked for links, they never respond. I wonder why . . .

Bahoomba

05-16-2010, 07:32 PM

Flyback,

The links are there, the reviews are - but you gotta find 'em because this site is famous for TOSing

anything that isn't complimentary, and that includes links. As I said before, just Google, the reviews and

reports just pop right up, I swear!

Mr Horology

05-16-2010, 07:43 PM

Flyback,


anything that isn't complimentary, and that includes links. As I said before, just Google, the reviews just

pop right up, I swear!

Which D/D module does this review cover?

Pm me the links or reviews, you should be able to.

I would love to see these reviews.

Neil

05-16-2010, 07:45 PM

I think the refrences to problems with the DD movement can be attributed to novice buyers and people

with little knowledge about DD or ETA movements in general. The ETA/DD combo is used in some of the

most expensive brands in the industry and both are very respected manufactures in said industry,

Flyback

05-16-2010, 07:47 PM

Flyback,




Frankly I don't believe you, because I've used Google throughout the weekend to learn as much as I

could about the movement. Plus there is nothing in the TOS that would prevent you from linking to

credible information, I'm pretty confident in that statement since I helped write them.

kabfoto

05-16-2010, 07:47 PM

I can't seem to find anything that is fact based either....I found a few opinions about it and one article on

an older DD movement that had a few mior issues, but nothing bad on this one. As a matter of fact, I

have found quite the opposite opinion from people that "own" this movement....when they responded

to the people who posted negative (of course non-owners of the movement) opinoins of this

movement.

Are you trying to make yourself feel better about not making the puirchase by convincing yourself (and

trying to convince others) the movement is bad?

Mr Horology

05-16-2010, 07:48 PM

Well I can't find squat myself, and I also am very good at using Google.

So if you can't post these links, I would ask that you at least Pm them

to me so I can look them over.

Flyback

05-16-2010, 07:50 PM

Well I can't find squat myself, and I also am very good at using Google.

So if you can't post these links, I would ask that you at least Pm them

to me so I can look them over.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that request Mehdi! :D

Blade

05-16-2010, 07:51 PM

Flyback,




"this site is famous for TOSing anything that isn't complimentary" -- this is not true; however, if you're

having trouble posting the links, please PM them to me as I would like to read the reviews/issues.

Thanks.

Bahoomba

05-16-2010, 07:55 PM

Horology, Flyback,

Okay...here goes..and how you guys couldn't find this is beyond me:

http://watch-pop.com/omega_1/watch-09262.html

http://www.chronocentric.com/forums/heuer/index.cgi?noframes;read=7011

Fair enough? Those are the two I'm bothering to dig up. Now I'm gonna get TOSed right? All this for

investigating a watch I'm interested in.....hoo boy.

Mr Horology

05-16-2010, 08:05 PM

Those reviews make no sense what so ever. If D/D modules are low quality,

then why would companies like Hublot, among many other high end brands

use them on their watches. These reviews are nothing more then a bunch of

guys talking back and forth about something they obviously have no idea about.

Flyback

05-16-2010, 08:06 PM

Horology, Flyback,






Just read the info at both links. In the first one the author states he prefers a full on chronograph

movement rather than one using the module. Fair enough, the man stated a preference. No reference

to defects or problems.

The second article mentions no defects or problems either.

" At the risk of sounding petty or obsessed my

: problem with this type movement is the way

: that the minute counter hand

: "sweeps" instead of

: "ticking" in single increments. : Unfortunately this module is used in several

: really cool watches besides TAG and Omega.

: Cartier Roadster Chronograph

: Breitling Navitimer 50th Ann. Edition and

: Girard-Perregaux Ferrari F-300 are three that I

: no longer own because of this."

A smooth running minute counter. OMG what a condemnation!

Like I said, I could find no references to defects or problems and you haven't changed that status.

strutn45

05-16-2010, 08:09 PM

Horology, Flyback,






I found nothing there. :shrug:

JacksBlues

05-16-2010, 08:10 PM

Seems to me that we have two opinions from Chuck who is obviously not an ETA/DD fan, and several

responders who hold another opinion. And, Chuck has the right to his opinion regardless of his sources

or information.

Blade

05-16-2010, 08:11 PM

Horology, Flyback,






Bahoomba, these threads do not mention any problems, only preference. Thanks though.

strutn45

05-16-2010, 08:12 PM



or information.

Exactly opinions only... nothing more.

Mr Horology

05-16-2010, 08:12 PM

I really think you just need to study D/D better, they are a major

player in the Horological industry. They provide many modules of

different complications to many of the high end watch houses.

loosecannon

05-16-2010, 08:13 PM

Horology, Flyback,






after reading them i feel dumber than i did a minute ago i may have to cancel my order

Bahoomba

05-16-2010, 08:14 PM

Gents,

Even another Geek referenced high costs involving repairs of this movement; y'all can dig 'em up as well

as I can.

Again, I reiterate: I'm interested in this watch! Serves me right to investigate before I drop a grand,

right?

And by the way..who is using this movement in 2010? I know some brands that used to use it...

Hey..wise consumers check stuff out.

Flyback

05-16-2010, 08:15 PM



or information.

We're not talking opinions, he represented that there were problems/defects with the DD 2021 that

were readily found on the internet. To this moment, none have been produced.

Mr Horology

05-16-2010, 08:18 PM

Gents,


as I can.


right?



There are high costs to repair many auto chronographs.

Plus why does it matter who is using it in 2010?, a special

movement is a special movement no matter what. I am really

not getting what ever point your trying to get across here. If

your beef is with the Speedway only, why call out D/D as a

company, because that is just what you did......

ky

05-16-2010, 08:18 PM

Here's the bottom line for me.

If Omega, Hublot, Cartier, Breitling, Girard-Perregaux and on and on feel this is a quality enough

movement for their timepieces.

Why would anyone think that Invictas speedway D-D is not worth the $1000 asking price.

Try getting a different brand with this type of movement for anywhere near this price.

It's more than worth the 1K price for me and I feel great about ordering all 3.

Thank you Eyal.

Blade

05-16-2010, 08:19 PM

Gents,


as I can.


right?



I agree that wise consumers check stuff out before they purchase; however, one needs to separate

opinion and preference from facts. So far I haven't come up with anything related to problems/issues.

Also, with respect to high cost of repairs, doesn't that also apply to 7750's and others?

Bahoomba

05-16-2010, 08:22 PM

Blade,

That's true...well said. But that being said - I only wanted to get independent opinions on this ETA/DD

combo. Ain't nothing wrong with that...right? If I represented "problems" instead of opinions that

weren't crazy about it - my bad. Please forgive me.

This is much ado about nothin'...night, Geeks.

;)

nycruza

05-16-2010, 08:23 PM

Those reviews make no sense what so ever. If D/D modules are low quality,

then why would companies like Hublot, among many other high end brands

use them on their watches. These reviews are nothing more then a bunch of

guys talking back and forth about something they obviously have no idea about.

Exactly what reviews! I might as well say "I'm not a fan of Cauliflower"! or "That's not the first time I

heard a complaint about Mercedes".

What I read on both posts was what I call drivel but definitely not a "review".

Mr Horology

05-16-2010, 08:23 PM

I agree that wise consumers check stuff out before they purchase; however, one needs to separate

opinion and preference from facts. So far I haven't come up with anything related to problems/issues.

Also, with respect to high cost of repairs, doesn't that also apply to 7750's and others?

Any Mechanical/Mechanical automatic chronograph will be very expensive

to fix, yes. Watches with D/D modules will be a bit higher, because they

have many more components. But when you buy high end, this is just a

normal thing that is going to happen. Of course a BMW will be more to fix

then a Honda will, I mean that's just how it is....

Flyback

05-16-2010, 08:27 PM

I've taken comprehensive notes since the beginning of this thread and would like to submit the following

summary:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn35/FlyBack_photo/Whiteboard-1.jpg

OnTheWrist

05-16-2010, 08:29 PM


summary:


You're a brilliant student Brad! Go to the head of the class!:salute:

strutn45

05-16-2010, 08:33 PM

Blade,





;)

Nice try but no cigar, better luck next time. :salute:

Mr Horology

05-16-2010, 08:37 PM


summary:

That is the cleanest whiteboard I have ever seen.. LOL.

loosecannon

05-16-2010, 08:41 PM


summary:


hey brad i don't see anything on the borad,,,,, LOL

RoyalOak

05-16-2010, 08:54 PM

Just read the info at both links. In the first one the author states he prefers a full on chronograph

movement rather than one using the module. Fair enough, the man stated a preference. No reference

to defects or problems.

The second article mentions no defects or problems either.

" At the risk of sounding petty or obsessed my

: problem with this type movement is the way

: that the minute counter hand

: "sweeps" instead of

: "ticking" in single increments. : Unfortunately this module is used in several

: really cool watches besides TAG and Omega.

: Cartier Roadster Chronograph

: Breitling Navitimer 50th Ann. Edition and

: Girard-Perregaux Ferrari F-300 are three that I

: no longer own because of this."

A smooth running minute counter. OMG what a condemnation!

Like I said, I could find no references to defects or problems and you haven't changed that status.

I found and read those articles as well by myself, and Chuck Maddox's especially was nothing but his

opinion. From further investigation besides the high end brands he mentions, I learned from my

research that Ademars Piguet has used the D/D module with the ETA combo in both its Royal Oak (my

namesake, and BTW, Royal Oak is celebrating its 40th Anniversary from its introduction this year)) and

Royal Oak Offshore!

GeorgeTheWatchGuy

05-16-2010, 09:02 PM

Here's the bottom line for me.

If Omega, Hublot, Cartier, Breitling, Girard-Perregaux and on and on feel this is a quality enough

movement for their timepieces.

Why would anyone think that Invictas speedway D-D is not worth the $1000 asking price.

Try getting a different brand with this type of movement for anywhere near this price.

It's more than worth the 1K price for me and I feel great about ordering all 3.

Thank you Eyal.

Well said....;)

Blade,





;)

I believe Bahoomba meant no harm... He was just trying to get some answers... Please go easy on him

guys...:YES:


summary:


:D:D:D Very good Brad... LOL

meijin

05-16-2010, 09:03 PM

Flyback,




You know, it has been a long day (a long month actually) and I am just gonna be blunt with you here...

Bullshit

Anyone who makes a completely ridiculous comment like that has not spent much time in the Invicta

forum...there are numerous threads in the Invicta forums that are extremely negative. As long as they

remain within the TOS and don't get into the realm of bashing, personal attacks, baseless and

unsubstantiated accusations (among the other items contained within the TOS), they are allowed to

remain up. The fact that this thread is still open and you are still a member here is proof of that fact. You

have presented unsubstantiated claims and bashed the entire admin team through your comments. Yet,

here is the thread and you are still on the site and able to read it.

Guess I just need to enjoy my two days off. Sometimes the drive by cheap shots are hard to ignore.

hobefabu

05-16-2010, 09:33 PM

Guys we are on the verge of a higher level of collecting and the detractors will always be there trying to

clip our wings but we just need to look at it from a realistic point of view. We are mostly Invicta

collectors and we run into normal issues that all brands encounter but we can't let them ruin what we

have already started. I am really happy Invicta has elevated to this higher level watches with movements

I used to only dream about owning. I am getting one of these with the DD module to fulfill my want of

this level of horology.

DenverBuff

05-16-2010, 10:45 PM

I'll chime in here. I own an Omega Speedmaster "reduced" 3510 that has the ETA/DD movement in it.

There is zip, zero, nada wrong with it. It is a great movement. It gets attention among the Omega-philes

because it's the primary difference (besides size) between the it and the Speedmaster "Pro" Moonwatch

- which is a manual wind. Both watches look the same. The Pro is bigger and has a manual wind

movement. The Reduced is smaller, cheaper and had the DD auto movement.

Look, I can't wear a 50mm watch, so the Speedway holds no allure for me. And to be perfectly blunt, I'd

have a tough time dropping $1K on any Invicta. But that's just me. If you like the watch, don't be scared

off because of the movement. My Speedy Reduced with the ETA/DD is crazy accurate. I mean, it gains

less than 2 seconds a day.

Yeah, some people wrinkle their noses at it because it's not a "dedicated" chrono movement like the

Valjoux or a 2893. And according to some, it's difficult to service. BFD. That goes with the territory of

owning a mechanical. The ETA/DD is a solid, accurate workhorse movement. Some like it. Some don't.

Like that's unusual in the watch world.

Frankly, if Invicta made this watch in a normal size case that I could actually wear, I'd be tempted. I like

the Speedway series - I own the quartz version. Slap the ETA/DD in a 42 mm case and I'm there.

But at 50mm, I can't even consider it. Doesn't mean it doesn't have a solid engine under the hood

though.

Nasty

05-20-2010, 11:19 AM


summary:


http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8348/facepalmz.gif

huitball

05-20-2010, 11:21 AM

Wow, I just made a thread linking back to this old thread and how coincidental it is, or isn't.

Nasty

05-20-2010, 11:25 AM

I would seriously like to think Invicta was/is the victim in this case.

CHUCK WAGON

05-20-2010, 11:53 AM

Flyback,




Dude you're wasting your time trying to convince certain individuals in this forum that there are ANY

issues with ANY Invicta, it's non-sensical and it does nothing more than draw criticism. We already know

that simply by the number of watches Invicta makes there will be a percentage that are defective. That

percentage is what's open for debate. I personally have never received a defective watch from Invicta

and I will not spend more than $400 on any Invicta so I'm getting mid to low end models.

CHUCK WAGON

05-20-2010, 11:58 AM


summary:


I have to admit thats funny....

CHUCK WAGON

05-20-2010, 11:59 AM

You know, it has been a long day (a long month actually) and I am just gonna be blunt with you here...

Bullshit

Anyone who makes a completely ridiculous comment like that has not spent much time in the Invicta

forum...there are numerous threads in the Invicta forums that are extremely negative. As long as they

remain within the TOS and don't get into the realm of bashing, personal attacks, baseless and

unsubstantiated accusations (among the other items contained within the TOS), they are allowed to

remain up. The fact that this thread is still open and you are still a member here is proof of that fact. You

have presented unsubstantiated claims and bashed the entire admin team through your comments. Yet,

here is the thread and you are still on the site and able to read it.

Guess I just need to enjoy my two days off. Sometimes the drive by cheap shots are hard to ignore.

Wow, I guess it has been a long day. Hey Mike, LOVE the new Russian Divers, don't care about their

movement, I just know they look good on my wrist....

reserveman

05-20-2010, 12:08 PM

I don't really think Eyal would use something that would hurt him in any way he just doesn't seem to be

that kind of guy. Hes been in this all his life and hes not stupid. I understand recerch but to make yr

desisions just by someones opinion and not fact would be like just using only this site as fact.

strutn45

05-20-2010, 12:13 PM


WOW...:ball:

SeaVulture

05-20-2010, 12:48 PM


Yeah, Ironic, isn't it? :THNK:

Kind of reminds me of:

REVIVING OLD THREADS

"If you are going to take a thread that is weeks old and comment on it, please do so only if you are

making a significant contribution to the topic...."

chitown

05-20-2010, 02:01 PM

I haven't heard any complants on the movement itself at all so far. The only complaints have been how

many geeks have recieved the watch with poor QC and a lot of this could explained in shipping. Not

many geeks I believe have owned this movement before and are getting watches not working right

because of the harshness of the shipping dept, and maybe not even Invicta and thier QC. They could be

perfect when they leave Invicta but it could be a very sensitive movement and can't take the abuse they

take in shipping. I don't know but the collectors that own most of these types of movement I would

suspect by them at the High Class Watch Stores in big cities and are checked out first by the watch

makers working in these types of establisments and all problems were seeing here are taken care of

before they even reach the Watch Show Cases. This is just a thought I know none of this to be true, but

it is just a thought, because of what I read so far only watches with movement being shipped directly to

a home has a problem. I haven't heard or read of any of these movements being purschased at the retail

level haveing a problem.

Nasty

05-20-2010, 02:05 PM

If this many pieces get damaged in shipping, it'd a crap movt.

Period.

chitown

05-20-2010, 02:11 PM

If this many pieces get damaged in shipping, it'd a crap movt.

Period.

I said haven't heard of any movmement problems yet, all problems could come frome shipping like the

hands not linning up at Midnight, being thrown around like they are in shipping could be part of the

problem.

huitball

05-20-2010, 02:22 PM

I haven't heard any complants on the movement itself at all so far. The only complaints have been how

many geeks have recieved the watch with poor QC and a lot of this could explained in shipping. Not

many geeks I believe have owned this movement before and are getting watches not working right

because of the harshness of the shipping dept, and maybe not even Invicta and thier QC. They could be

perfect when they leave Invicta but it could be a very sensitive movement and can't take the abuse they

take in shipping. I don't know but the collectors that own most of these types of movement I would

suspect by them at the High Class Watch Stores in big cities and are checked out first by the watch

makers working in these types of establisments and all problems were seeing here are taken care of

before they even reach the Watch Show Cases. This is just a thought I know none of this to be true, but

it is just a thought, because of what I read so far only watches with movement being shipped directly to

a home has a problem. I haven't heard or read of any of these movements being purschased at the retail

level haveing a problem.

How do watches get to the retail level? They are shipped. I am guessing many times by FedEx or UPS. I

would imagine that's how they get to jewelers, if I'm wrong let me know. If it was a shipping issue I

would expect to see it at the retail level also.

SeaVulture

05-20-2010, 02:44 PM

I know there are already at least a few threads out there about the DD movement mods and the TTV

Speedway, so forgive me for starting another. The reason for starting this thread is that there have been

a handful of posts that reference problems with DD mods; however, nobody has provided any links and

I'm coming up short trying to find anything credible yet (Google-ing) speaking of issues.

If you have found info speaking of issues, please provide links.

Thank you

Blade,

The issues that have been mentioned on this forum are still few in number.

Much more posting on this issue has occurred than there are people who've actually experienced a

problem.

There was a post on 5-17-2010, at 12:45am, which seems to have said it all, as to the issues here in this

thread.

Three days later, this thread has since been revived.

At 1:19pm today, with no intent of contributing constructively to the context of this issue, someone

opened it back up.

In fact, it was hijacked after input from Mike Davis on the subject, by a remark from chuckwagon at

1:59pm.

It is now on a different subject than what the thread was established.

Folks need to be reading the TOS on this forum before posting such unfounded and off-topic

information:

http://watchgeeks.net/misc.php?do=cfrules

GeorgeTheWatchGuy

05-20-2010, 03:59 PM

How do watches get to the retail level? They are shipped. I am guessing many times by FedEx or UPS. I

would imagine that's how they get to jewelers, if I'm wrong let me know. If it was a shipping issue I

would expect to see it at the retail level also.

When did you ever hear an AD say they are getting bad watches in do to shipping? the answer is you

won't, because it would kill his buisness...

I'm not going to say that the members here that are stating they are receiving defective watches in this

recent issue aren't being truthful here, but we haven't seen any pictures of these defects either...

So I believe the bottom line is, the Invicta haters who Troll here are just having a field day, which should

& will end soon.... :( There are no other legitimate forums that would allow this to continue, except the

so called hate forums...

Watch_Crazy

05-20-2010, 04:08 PM

FWIW, I've really Googled this subject to death and can't find anything negative about any DD 'hybrids';

i.e., ...

... quite the contrary, all I see are reports about how accurate and robust they really are ...

... plus how many 'watch hausen' love to use them in their designs.

______________________________________________

Again, I have to say it, I suspect any problems that a few good folks in here are (sadly) experiencing ...

... with their Invicta TTV's are probably attributable to rough handling during shipment.

huitball

05-20-2010, 04:08 PM

When did you ever hear an AD say they are getting bad watches in do to shipping? the answer is you

won't, because it would kill his buisness...

I'm not going to say that the members here that are stating they are receiving defective watches in this

recent issue aren't being truthful here, but we haven't seen any pictures of these defects either...

So I believe the bottom line is, the Invicta haters who Troll here are just having a field day, which should

& will end soon.... :( There are no other legitimate forums that would allow this to continue, except the

so called hate forums...

George, good point. I obviously didn't think of it that way. I don't believe I have been saying the issues

are Invictas fault, I am just puzzled as to the level of CS Invicta shows. It would be nice to hear someone

from Invicta say "we have heard of reports of some issues with "watch x" and will investigate what

caused the issue". I really do like my Invictas but I am having trouble getting past the CS. Thanks for

listening.

curiousgeorge

05-20-2010, 04:08 PM

As for Huitball's post about how the watches get to an AD. Of course they are shipped by one of the

major carriers. Here's the difference and an important one. They are then looked over by the AD before

sale. Also as a customer you get to inspect it yourself before purchase. Invicta bulk ships to ShopNbc

who may put their sales receipt and a catalog in it, but they certainly aren't doing a 15 point inspection

on the piece before they send it to you. If the high-end watch industry did the bulk of their business

through the internet believe me they would have a much higher default rate then they do now.

Watch_Crazy

05-20-2010, 04:12 PM

As for Huitball's post about how the watches get to an AD. Of course they are shipped by one of the

major carriers. Here's the difference and an important one. They are then looked over by the AD before

sale. Also as a customer you get to inspect it yourself before purchase. Invicta bulk ships to ShopNbc

who may put their sales receipt and a catalog in it, but they certainly aren't doing a 15 point inspection

on the piece before they send it to you. If the high-end watch industry did the bulk of their business

through the internet believe me they would have a much higher default rate then they do now.

WELL said and ABSOLUTELY true, my friend! ... GREAT observation!

watchgeek archive 2 of invicta dubois fiasco

Documents

pm flyback

pm thats

dd movement mods

older dd movement

movement opinoins

dd mods

dd module

isnt complimentary