transcript – the world is your petri dish with bruce ... · transcript – the world is your...

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Transcript – The World is Your Petri Dish with Bruce

Lipton - #336

Bulletproof Radio Bruce Lipton #336

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Today'sguestissomeoneImetmorethan10yearsagowhenhefirstspokeattheSiliconValley

HealthInstitute,thenon-profitthatIrunintheanti-agingfieldinPaloAlto.

He'soneof,Iguessyoucouldcallhimthefathersofepigenetics.Epigenetics,ifyou'renewtotheshow,isthisstudyofhowourgenesarechangedbytheenvironmentaroundus.Icitedhisworkquitealotinmyfirstbook,TheBetterBabyBook,andalsoalittlebitinTheBulletproofDiet.

Bynow,ifyou'realong-timefan,youmightbeguessingthatourguestisDr.BruceLipton,butifyouhaven'tguessed,nowyouknow.Dr.Lipton,welcometotheshow.

Dr.Lipton: Iamsohappytobehere,andIhappenedtobringalongmyownmentalcoffee,yourcoffee.Thankyousomuch.I'vebeenusingitforayearandahalfbecauseIgotonaKetogenicdietandit'swonderfulbecauseIcanhaveacupofcoffeeinthemorningandnotevenbehungryuntilmid-afternoonandforaguytryingtoloseweight,thatwasmagicsothankyouverymuch.

Dave: You'resowelcome.Forpeoplelistening,thatjustblowsmeaway.You'llhearinaminuteherewhatBruceLiptonhasdonewithhiscareerandwiththisknowledge,andtofindoutthatsomeoneathislevelisdrinkingmycoffee,actuallyjustmakesmefeelgood.It'sreallycool.

Dr.Lipton: Thatmakes2ofusfeelgood.

Dave: Ididnotknowthat.Wedidn'tsetthatuporanything.

Dr.Lipton: No.

Dave: Wejustgotonthephoneandlike,"Really?"Now,Bruce,youhaveadegreeinBiologyandaPhDinDevelopmentalBiology.YoustudiedMuscularDystrophy,cloningstemcells,andin1982youstartedstudyingQuantumPhysics,backwhenwewerejustfiguringoutQuantumPhysicsactuallysortofmatteredreally.

Youdiscoveredthatcell'souterlayerhaditsownintelligence,kindoflikeanorganicmicrochip,andyouwentfrombeinganatheistsobelievingthatthewaycellsbehaveandfunctionareproofthatGodexists.

YoufoundaprettybigpathwhereyoustudiedCellularBiology,youstudiedQuantumPhysics,andyourealizedtherewassomethinggoingonthatyoudidn'texpect.Tellmeaboutyourpathofthat.That'sprettyprofound.

Dr.Lipton: Themostexcitingpartaboutitwasthatmyresearchoncloningstemcells,whichIwascloningstemcellsbackin1967andit'sinterestingbecausebackin1967therewasonlymaybeahandfulofusintheentireworldthatevenknewwhatastemcellwas.

Dave: Thatwaswaybeforeitwascool.


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Dr.Lipton: Ohyeah.Itwaslike,"Ohlook,secretresearch."Itwasn'tsecret,it'sjustnobodyknewaboutit,andnowit'saglobalawarenessaboutthenatureofstemcells.Stemcellsareembryoniccells.Wecallthemstemcellsbecauseonceyou'reborn,Ican'tkeepreferringtothemasembryoniccellsbecausethey'restillinyourbodyandyou'rebornsowechangedthename.

Isaid,"Look,considerthis,astemcell'saembryoniccellandwhyisitrelevant?Becausenomatterhowoldweare,everydaywelosehundredsofbillionsofcellsonnormalattrition.Justnormally.Theydieandyouhavetoreplacethem.Theentireliningofthedigestivetract,fromyourmouthtoyouranus,theentireliningofthatisreplacedevery3days.

There'sapointthatsays,"Well,ifI'mlosinghundredsofbillionsofcellseveryday,whereamIgettingthenewones?"Isaid,"Ah,thesestemcells."This,forme,wasrealinterestingbecauseastemcellisamulti-potentialcell.MywholeworldturnedupsidedownwhenIwascloningthem,whichmeantIputonecellinadishbyitself,andthenitwoulddivideevery10or12hours.

Afteraweek,I'dhave50,000cellsinadish,butthemostimportantpartwaseverycellwasgeneticallyidenticaltoeveryothercell.Theycamefromthesameparent.Ihave50,000geneticallyidenticalcells.Thisoneexperimentchangedmyentirecareer.

ThatwasIsplitthesegeneticallyidenticalinto3differentpetridishesandIchangedthechemistryoftheculturemedium.Justalittlebitineachofthedishessogeneticallyidenticalcells,butslightlydifferentenvironment.

Therelevancewasinonedish,mycellsformedmuscleandinanotherdishthecellsformedbone,andinadifferentculturemedium,thegeneticallyidenticalcellsformedfatcells.HereIamteachinginmedicalschoolthatgenescontrollifeandthenIwalkintomylaboratoryandit'slike,"Nope,it'snottrue."

Dave: Wow.

Dr.Lipton: Thegenesdidnotcontrolthefateofthecells,itwastheenvironmentthatcontrolledthefateofthecells.Itbecameimportantjusttoletpeopleknow.Yousay,"Well,thatwasreallygreat.Youweredoingcellsandtissueculture,bigdeal.Whataboutme,I'mahumanbeing."Igo,"Okay,here'sthejoke.Thejokeisthiswhenyoulookinthemirrorasasingleindividual.Thetruthisthat'samisperception.

Youaremadeoutofabout50trillioncells.Thecellsarethelivingentity.WhenIsayBruce,that'sanameforcommunityof50trillioncells.Thejokeypartisahumanisaskin-coveredpetridishwith50trillioncellsinsideandtheculturemediumisblood.

Isay,"What'stherelevance?"Isay,"Itdoesn'tmakeadifferenceifthecell'sinaplasticdishortheskin-covereddish,thecell'sfateisdeterminedbythecompositionofthebloodwhichrepresentstheenvironmentforthecells.Aswechangethecompositionofourblood,wechangethefateofourcells.

Isay,"Well,whatcontrolsthecomposition?"Isay,"Well,thebrainisthechemist."Isay,"Yeah,


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butwhatchemistryshouldthebrainputintotheblood?"ThenIgo,"Ah."Nowjumpuponepictureandsay,"Whateverthemindisperceiving,thebrainwilltakethatpictureandbreakitdownintocomplimentarychemistry."

Ifyouarelookingattheworldandyouseejoyandhappiness,thenthebrainwilltakejoyandhappinessintochemistry,suchasDopaminepleasure,andputthisintoyourblood.Igo,"Whyisitrelevant?"Becausethechemistryofloveandjoyisachemistryofhealth,andhappiness,andgrowth.

Yetthesamepersoncouldlookattheworldandbeafraidandhavefear.Igo,"What'stheconsequences?"Isay,"Well,thatlovechemistryandhappinesschemistryisnotgoingtobecomingoutofabrainthat'sinterpretingfear.Itwillreleasestresshormonesandinflammatoryagents."Isay,"Oh,thebloodchemistry,whichistheculturemedium,changesinregardtowhatmindpicturewehave."

Inotherwords,howdoyouinterprettheworld?Ifyouinterpretitinaverypositiveway,youreleasechemistrythatenhancesgrowth,butifyouareafraid,ornervous,orinfearabouttheworld,thenyousecretechemistrythatputsyouinaprotection.Isay,"Well,thisisprofoundforthisreason.Growth,bydefinition,isbeingopen.Takethingsin,assimilate,that'showyougrow."

ThenIgo,"Okay,that'sreallycool,butwhataboutprotection?"Igo,"Ah,protectionclosethingsoff.Wallyourselfoff."Isay,"Whyisitrelevant?"Isay,"Growthisopen.Protectionisclosed.Youcan'tbeingrowthandprotectionatthesametime."Yousay,"Yeah,butdoIneedtobeingrowth,I'mold?"Igo,"Yes,everydayyouhavetoreplacehundredsofbillionsofcells."

Ifyoulookattheworldinfear,thenbydefinition,you'regoingtoshutdownthegrowthofthesystemasitwallsitselfoffinprotection.Isay,"Well,thismightbegoodwhiletheSaberToothTigerischasingyou,butifyouareincontinuousprotection,thenbydefinitionyouareincontinuousinhibitionofyourgrowthandthisisthebiggestpart."

Thestresshormonesfromaprotectionperceptionshutdowntheimmunesystem.SoIsay,"OhmyGod,youhave2strikesagainstyourightnow.Oneifyou'reinfear,you'veshutdownthegrowth.Yeah,butIhavetogroweveryday,sohowlongcanIshutdownthegrowthwithouthavinganegativeimpact?"Isay,"Nottoolong."

ThenIalsosay,"Andstresshormonesshutofftheimmunesystem.It'snottopunishyou,it'sjustthattheimmunesystemusesalotofenergy."Ifyou'veeverbeensickandlaidinabed,you'vegotnoenergy.Igo,"Yeah,buttheimmunesystem,whenyou'rebeingchasedbyatiger,isnotreallyrelevant."Atthatmomentit'slike,"Ohthat'sfine.I'lldealwithitlater.I'vegottogetoutofhere."

Thebodyallocatesalltheenergyandfearforfightorflight.Itshutsdownallfunctionsthatareusingenergythatarenotgoingtohelpyou,likegrowthandtheimmunesystem,aslongasyou'reinfear.Intheolddays,itwasn'taproblembecauseyou'verunawayfromaSaberToothTiger.Onceyou'refree,thenthesystemwouldcutbackandthenwe'dbackingrowth.


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Dave: Ihaveabitofaconfessiontomake.ThedefinitionofbiohackingthatIwroteis...Ijustwantto

readthistoyou.Iknowitfrommemorybecauseyou'regoingtolaugh.Itjusttiesinwithwhatyousaid.It'schangingtheenvironmentaroundyou,andinsideofyousoyouhavefullcontrolofyourownbiologysoyoucandowhateveryouwanttodo.

Dr.Lipton: Theanswerisyes.

Dave: Thatisarestatementofyourwork.Icreditedyouwithit,butthewholebiohackingmovement,thestressresponseyoujusttalkedaboutistheenvironmentinsideyourselfandthere'sachemicalenvironmenttoo.Thentheenvironmentoutsideofyou.Thethingsyoueat,andthethingsyoudo,andbreathingandallthatkindofstuff.

Thosearecorecontrolleversandthemechanismsforthatarethingsthatyoufirstteasedoutbecauseofthose3petridisheswhichisaprettyprofoundthing.

Dr.Lipton: Itwasforme.Itchangedmyentirelife.

Dave: Anyonewhodisruptsawholeindustry,awholeparadigm,alwaysgets...peoplecomplainaboutitalot.Yougetalotofarrowsinyourbackfromit.Thathappenedwhenyoufirstsaid,"Guys,it'swhat'sinthepetridishthat'snotacellthatmatters."Whatdidthescientificcommunitydo?

Dr.Lipton: Iloveitbecausetherewere2differentresponses.Thefirsttime,I'dlefttheuniversitybecauseIrealizedthatwhatIwasmedicalstudentswascompletelywrong.Thatwearegeneticautomatonsbecauseifyoubelievethat,thenyoualsobelievethisthatyouarenotincontrol.Thatyourlifeiscontrolledbyyourgenes.

Isaid,"WhatamIteachingmedicalstudentsisthatwearevictimsofourheredity."You'vegotacancergene,oranAlzheimergene,andallofasuddenyou'regoingtohavethatandthere'snothingyoucandoaboutitbecauseit'syourgenes.

Weprogrampeopletobevictims.Isay,"Whyisthatrelevant?"Becausethemomentyouperceiveyou'reavictim,youalsosay,"I'mpowerless."

Dave: Yes.

Dr.Lipton: Whenpeoplesaythey'repowerless,theygiveup."Ihavenoresponsibilityaboutmylifebecauseit'snotme,it'smygenesanyway,soit'snotme."TherealityisohmyGod,thatwascompletelywrongbecausethegenesarenotself-actualizing.Let'sclearupbecausehowmanymillionsofpeopleouttheresay,"Oh,ageneturnedonandthegeneturnedoff,andthegenecontrolledmylife"andIgo,"Firstthing,that'scompletelyfalse."Thewholebeliefisfalse.

Ageneisablueprint.Isay,"Whyisitrelevant?"It'slike,"Itisablueprintinthisregard."Yougointoanarchitectsofficeandshe'sworkingonablueprintandyouleanoverthearchitect'sshoulderandyousay,"Excuseme.Isyourblueprintonoroff?"She'dlookatyoulike,"Areyoucrazy?It'sablueprint.There'snoonandoff."Igo,"Precisely."


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Ageneisnotself-actualizing.Agenehasnoabilitytocontrolitselforevenknowwhatitisor

whyit'sthere.We'vegiventhislifetoagenethatit'scontrollingus.Igo,"Itdoesn'tcontrolyouanymorethanablueprint."

Whyisitrelevant?Becauseyourmindisacontractor.Yourmindwillpulluptheblueprintsandnowwealsoknowitcanrewritetheprogramofablueprint.Itcanchangethereadoutofablueprint.Everygene,byhowyoulookattheworld,everygenecancreate3,000ormoredifferentproteinsfromthesameblueprint.

It'slike,"Whoa.Thatwasn'tinourhistory."Isay,"Whyisbecauseyoucancomewithhealthygenesandbasedonyourinterpretationandtheenvironment,readthemascancergenes."TheideaiswealwayssaygenescauseCancer.Isay,"Thereisnogenethatcausescancer."

It'sreallytheenvironmentthatopensyouupandthatiswheretheexpressionofCancercomesfrom.Youshutdownyourimmunesystem,youshutdownyourgrowth.Youareinterfering.You'rethrowingamonkeywrenchinthesystem.Itsays,"Nowait,we'retheonesthatarepowerful,notthegenes."Yetthewholeworldhasbeenprogrammed,"Iamavictim."That'swhyIhadtoleavethemedicalschool.

Dave: Isn'tittruethatthecolorofyoureyes,Idoknowacoupleofpeoplewho'vechangedthecoloroftheireyeswithweirdinterventions.Usuallyveryspiritual,meditatingpeoplethat...Therearesomecharacteristics,orsomediseases,likeifyou'vegotbothofthealleles,you'reprettymuchgoingtogetthat.Ialwaysfeltlikeitwas...There'ssomepercentageslikeyou'rekindofscrewedifyou'vegotthat.

Dr.Lipton: Yeah.Letmegiveyouanumberbecausethereisanumberanditsays,"Lessthan1%ofdiseaseisdirectlyconnectedtogenetics."

Dave: Ibelievethat.

Dr.Lipton: That'sarealnumber.Isay,"Wellthenitautomaticallysayswellthenifonly1%isconnectedtogenetics,thequestionyouneedtoaskiswhat'sthe90somepercent.That'swherewestarttofindtheenvironmentandtheinformationandtheinterpretationofthatenvironmentiswhatistotallycontrollingus.EventheAmericanPsychologicalAssociationhasrecentlycomeoutandsaid,"90%ofdoctorvisitsaredirectlyrelatedtostress."

Allofasuddenitsays,"We'vebeenblamingourbodies,frail,vulnerable.Ohwe'resuchweaklings.Sugar'sgoingtokillyou.Bacteria'sgoingtokillyou."It'slikeyouhaveamisinterpretationofwhowereallyare.Wearesopowerfulexcept,ifit'sbasedonbeliefandperception,allIhavetodoistellyouandhaveyoubelievethatyou'renotpowerfulandsinceit'sbasedonbelief,thenifyoubelieveyou'renotpowerful,you'renotpowerful.

Ifyoubelieveyou'regoingtogetacancer,youcangetacancerwithnogeneticfoundationforit.Asamatteroffact,lessthan10%ofcancerisevenconnectedtogenetics.There'sanupheavalofourworldthattakesusfrom,"I'mavictimofmygenes."No,no,thenewscienceis


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youareamaster.Youaretheonewhoselectsandmodifiesandcontrolsthereadoutofyourgenes.Whenyouunderstandthat,thenitsays,"OhmyGod,Iampowerful."Igo,"Yeah,you'rereallypowerful,exceptyourbeliefperhapssaysyou'renot."

Dave: ThenwhatdoyouthinkaboutthegroupswhoarepromotinglikeBreastCancerAwareness,let'ssay?

Dr.Lipton: It'spromotingawarenesswhichiswhat?Isaid,"Awarenessisreallywhat'scontrollingourBiology."Whenyouhaveanawarenessof,"OhmyGod,Icouldgetthisbreastcancer,"yougetsomeonelikeAngelinaJolieandshehasadoublemastectomybecauseshesays,"Iamgoingtopreventmybreastcancergenefromgivingmecancer.Mymotherdied,mygrandmotherdied,soIdon'twantthis,I'llremovemybreasts."Thenitturnsoutthebreastcancergene,BRCA-1doesn'tcausecancer.

Isaid,"Whatdoyoumean?"Isay,"50%ofthewomenthathavethatgene,nevergetacancer."Youhavetostopforthatmomentandsay,"YoumeanIcanhavethegeneandnotgetthecancer?"Igo,"50%ofthewomendon'tsowhat'sthepoint?"Thegeneitselfdoesnotcausecancer.

Dave: It'syourlifestyle,italwayswas.

Dr.Lipton: Yeah.

Dave: I'mtornaboutthat.I'mallinfavorofresearchoncancer,butwhenyoupromoteworryaboutcancer,you'renotdoingitright.

Dr.Lipton: Asamatteroffact,everyoneoutthere's,"Ohyeah,theplaceboeffect.Placeboeffect."I'msick,thedoctorssays,"Thismagicpillisgoingtohealyou"Youtakethemagicpillandyougetwellandyougo,"ThankGodforthemagicpill."Thenyoufindoutitwasasugarpill.Isay,"Whyisthatrelevant?"Theanswerwasthesugarpilldidn'tdoanythingsowheredidthehealingcomefrom?Theanswerwasyourbeliefinthepilliswhatcreatedyourhealing.

Everybody,"Ohyeah,placeboaffect,positivethinking,blah,blah."Igo,"Yes,that'strue,butwhatpeoplehaveleftout,theaveragepersononthestreetisunawareofwhatiscalledthe'noceboeffect.'Isay,"What'sthat?"Isaid,"It'sanegativebelief."Yousay,"What'stheconsequenceofanegativebelief?"Isay,"It'sequallypowerfultoapositivebeliefincontrollingyourlife,butitworksintheoppositedirection."

Aplaceboisapositivebeliefthatcanhealyou.Anoceboisanegativebeliefthatcanactuallycauseanydisease,justthebelief,oritcanevenkillyou.Peoplecanbescaredtodeathoffear,cankillthem.Isay,"Whyisitrelevant?"It'slikewealwaysfocusondosomepositivethinking.It'slike,"Yep,moreimportantisstopthenegativethinkingbecausethenegativethinkingismanifestingasdisease."

Dave: Iquitwatchingthenewsalongtimeago.


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Dr.Lipton: Thankyou.

Dave: It'sactuallyalmostrequiredifyou'regoingtoliveinastateofhighperformancebecauseitmesseswithyourbiology.Itisnotokaytositthereandjustworryandseethesamecrap,negativestuff,sprayedaroundoverandover.OnFacebook,Isaylike,"Showmelesspostslikethis."Honestly,Idon'tneedtosee500postsaboutwhateverlatestbadthinghappenedto14people.

Dr.Lipton: Yeah,yeah.

Dave: Icandomathright?

Dr.Lipton: It'sveryinterestingbecauseallyouhavetodoisrecognizethis.IfIwanttosimplifythebiology,simplify...theeasiestwaygoeslikethis.Mostpeoplearefamiliarwithapaintbynumbers.Wewerekidsandwegetanoutlineofapictureandit'sallbrokenupinlittleoutlinesandthere'snumbersinthelittlesquares.

Thenthere'sapaintkitwiththenumberandifyoutakethatpaintandfillinthesquares,andassoonasyoufillthemallin,you'rePicasso,youcreateamasterpiece.Igo,"Thesimplestunderstandingoflifeispaintbynumbersinreverse."

Isay,"Whatdoesthatmean?"Isay,"Firstyouputapictureinyourmindandthebrainbreaksdownthepictureintonumbers,butthenumbersarenotpaint,thenumbersareneurochemistrywhichadjuststhebodylikepaintandturnsthebodyintotheimagethatwasheldinthemind."

Firstyouputapictureinyourmind,healing,cancer.Youputthepicturein,thebraintakesthepicture,convertsitintochemistry.Whenitreleasesthatchemistryinthebody,itcreatesa3-dimensionalimageofthepictureyoujusthadinyourmind.

IfIhaveafear,Igotoadoctorandadoctorgivesmeadiagnosisofterminalcancer,it'slikemywholemindhasvisionsofcancerandmyGodI'mgoingtodiein3monthslikehesaid.Igo,"Whatdoesthatmean?"Isaid,"You'vetakenapicture,anegativepicture,withdeath.Youhavenowputthispictureinyourmind."

Isay,"What'sthefunctionofthebrain?"Takethatpictureandturnitintochemistrytomanifestthepicture.Allofasuddenitsays,"Icangetthecancerjustfromhavingadiagnosisofhavingacancer,evenifthediagnosiswascompletelywrong."

Dave: Thatraisesacoupleofquestions.Youtalkaboutturningitintochemistry.I'mthinkingbacktothecellularBiologythingandsomethingthathappenswhenwe'remaking,saycitricacidoranyoneoftheotherchemicalsthatwemakeinfermentationvats.

Alotofpeopledon'tknowthisbutwhattheydoistheygeneticallymodify,usuallyAspergillus,whichisatypeoffungus.Theyputitinaculturemediumwithsomecornorsugarorwhatever.Thentomakeit...Thechangeitsothatit'llproducewhateverchemicalwewantasit'stoxin.


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Thentoraisethetoxinproducinglevel,theyusemicrowaveradiation,theyheatandcoolit,and

theyvibratethevats.Theystressoutthecells.

Dr.Lipton: Absolutely.

Dave: Theyprobablyusesomechemicalmanipulationsaswell,changethepHandwhatnot.Ifyoutakethosethings,it'snotjustchemistry.It'sphysicalvibration,it'ssound,it'slight,it'selectromagneticfrequency,it'stemperature,andallofthosethings.

Howmuchofthiscommunication,inyourexperience,ischemicalversusalloftheseenvironmentalthatareinvisiblebutreallyimportant?

Dr.Lipton: It'satrickquestionwithatrickanswer.Thetrickanswerissimplythis.InourNewtonianviewofaworld,wesee2realms.Aphysical/mechanicalrealmandanenergeticrealm,energyinvisibleenergy.InanNewtonianworld,wesay,"Ohthey're2separaterealmsandyourbodyismadeoutofthephysicalrealmsoifyouwanttochangeoradjustyourbody,youusephysicalthings,chemistry.

Igo,"Cool,butin1925,physicistsrecognizedsomethingveryclearandthatwasthis.Thatthingthatwecanphysical,ourbody.Isaid,"Yeahit'smadeoutofatoms.Thoseareparticles."Igo,"Yeah,butin1925whentheyrealizedphysicists,whenyougoinsidethatatom,whatthehell'sinside?"Yougo,"Oh,protonsandneutrons,andelectrons."

Isaid,"Yeah,yeah,butwhatarethoseparticlesmadeoutof?"That'swherethenewfieldofquantumphysicscameinbecausewhentheylookedinsidetheelection,theprotonandneutron,therewasnothingphysicalatall.It'sanenergyvibration.It'savortex.It'sanano-tornadoofenergy.

Igo,"Whyisitrelevant?"Becausethequantumphysicsworlddoesnotdistinguishbetweenanenergyandamechanicalworld.They'reallenergy.Thewholethingisenergy.Relevance?Thephysicalexpressionofenergy,ahumanbody,istotallyintegratedwiththeinvisibleenergyinwhichwe'reimmersed.

Allofusaresittingnowinafieldwithtelephonebroadcast,televisionbroadcast,radiobroadcast,solarenergybroadcast.Igo,"These,inaNewtonianworld,notrelevant.Theseinthequantumphysicsworldareprimary.Letmegiveaquote.It'ssosimple,butit'slikewe'vegottoownthis.Here'sthequote."Thefield,"whichisthephysicist'stermfortheinvisibleenergy."Thefield"andthisisaquotefromEinstein,"Thefieldisthesolegoverningagencyoftheparticle."

Particleismatter.Thefieldisenergy.Whatisthenewphysics?Thefield,theenergyisthesolegoverningagencyofmatter.Allofasuddensaid,"OhmyGod,ourwholeScienceofBiologyandmedicinehastotallyleftouttheenergyfieldandphysicistscomeinandsay,"Youcan'tleaveouttheenergyfield.It'sfundamentalinshapingeverythingelse."


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Theanswertoyourtrickquestionis“CanIbeaffectedbyinvisibleenergyfieldsandmatter?”Isay,"They'reboththesame.Youareindeedaffectedbytheenergyfieldssowhyisthatrelevant?Becauseifyouthengobackandsay,"Mybrainisagenerator,abroadcastoffeelselectricalactivityofthebraincouldbepickedupwithwiresonyourhead.It'scalledEEG,Electroencephalogram.

Icouldreadyourbrainfunctionbecausetheelectricalactivityinyourbrainconnectedtoyourskin.It'sconductedandI'mreadingbrain.That'scoolexceptforthis.There'sanewwayofbreedingbrainfunction.It'snotelectroencephalogram.ItcalledMagnetoencephalogram.Itreadsmorethemagneticfield.

Isay,"Whyisitrelevant?"It'ssocool.Theprobetoreadyourbraindoesnottouchyourhead.Theprobetoreadyourbrainisouthere.Isay,"Wow,whatdoesthatmean?"Isays,"Youthoughtyourthoughtswerecontainedinsideyourhead?Icanreadthemouthere."

Dave: They'respreadoutsideyourhead,yeah.

Dr.Lipton: Theidea'sthis.YouarecreatingafieldwithyourthoughtandthenIjustputbacktheequation,thefieldisthesolegoverningagencyoftheparticle.Thenyourealize,"OhmyGod,mymindisafieldgeneratorandthatenergyis100timesmoreefficientincontrollingyourcellsthanarechemicalenergies.

Basically,yourthoughtsareshapingyourphysicalbiology.That'swhereplacebo/nocebojustdifferentiates.Positivethought,placebo.Negativethought,nocebo.

Dave: Rightnowthere'sabout4%ofthepopulation,whichisthenumberofhardcoreskepticsthatareoutthere.Rightnowjumpingupanddown,they'reprobablydrivingtheircarsintobridgesifthey'relisteningtothis.

Dr.Lipton: Yeah.

Dave: They'regettingallworkedupoverit.

Dr.Lipton: Theyhaveabeliefsystemandsinceit'sbasedonbelief,ifyoubelieve...HenryFordIthinksaid,"Ifyoubelieveyoucan,oryoubelieveyoucan't,you'reright."Isay,"Ohtheskepticsays,'Itcan'tbe.'"

Igo,"Forthem,guesswhat?Itwon'twork."It'slike,"That'sbecausethat'stheirbeliefsystemsofine,stayinyourskepticworld,butI'mopeningupmyworldto...Iknowmythoughtschangemygeneticsandthat'sthescienceofepigenetics."

Dave: Atthispointtheevidenceisveryclearonthatfront.Thefactthatpeopledon'tliketheevidenceislike,"Okay,youcanyellandscreamanduseadhominemattacks,whichisbasicallyyousay,"Idon'tlikewhatyoudiscoveredthereforeyou'reapoopyheadwhichisrelativelydogmaticaboutit."


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Dr.Lipton: Beenthere,experiencedthat.IlefttheuniversityafterIrealizedmyresearchconflictedwithmyteachingandIwasteachingincorrectinformation.Iwasteachingthatwearevictims,whenthenewScienceofepigeneticssays,"No."AsIchangedmymind,Ichangedmygenetics.

Isay,"Whyisitrelevant?You'refreetochangeyourmindanywayyouwant.Sinceyourmindiscontrollingyourgeneticsandyouarenotavictimofyourgenetics,ifanything,ifyouwanttousethewordvictim,you'reavictimofwhateverthoughtthat'sinyourmind,especiallyifit'sanegativethought."

Isay,"Whyisitrelevant?"IcamebacktotheuniversityafterIunderstoodthenatureofhowtheenvironmentalsignalswerebeingconvertedintogeneticactivity,whichistheScienceofEpigenetics.IcamebacktomyskepticalcolleagueswhichIlefttheuniversity,Iwalkedoutwithtenure,theywerereallypissed.

Dave: Youhadtenuretoothat’samazing.

Dr.Lipton: Theywerepissed.Isaid,"WellIwanttocomebackbecauseIneededascientificaudiencejusttohearmygreatidea,Ithoughtitwas.I'vegotanaudiencewithmyformercolleaguesandthestudentsintheanatomydepartment.It'samedicalschoolinWisconsin.Theygavemealunchtimeseminarwhichislike...Peoplejustbringtheirlunchbecauseit'sasocialthing.

Ifsomeguyupinthefront,blah,blah,blah.Theydon'treallycare.They'rejusteatinglunchandenjoyingthemselves.Theygavemeoneofthose.TheinterestingthingwasthatIwasjustaboutfinishedwithmylecturewhenIlookedanditdawnedonmewhileI'mtalkingthatnobodyatetheirlunch.Theywereallsittingthere,theydidn'tevenopenthebags.

They'resittingtherelookingatmewiththesebigsaucereyeslikeIcamefromouterspace.IalwaysthoughtthiswasawholecoollecturebecauseIwastalkingaboutthemembraneandthephysicsandallthat.TheyweresointogeneticsthatwhateverIwassayingwaswaytoofarawayforthat.

Whatwastheresponse?Igettotheendofmylectureandthey'restilllookingatme.Isay,"Thankyouverymuch."Thatwastheresponse.ItwasthelongestperiodofdeadsilencethatI'veeverexperiencedinmylifeanditwastotallysilent.Everybodywasuneasy.I'mstandinginthefront.Isaid,"Thankyou."They'rejustsittingintheseat.

Oneguywayintheback,heclappedtwice.Ilookedathimandheclappedtwice,buteverybodyelselookedathimandheputhishandsdownandhestoppedclapping.Thentheyallgotup.Allmyformercolleaguesgotupandwalkedout.Notonepersonsaidawordtome.

Dave: Wow.

Dr.Lipton: Itwaslike,"OhmyGod."Ithought,"AmIcrazy?"Crazypeoplebelieveinwhatthey'redoingandIthought,"AmIcrazy?"IcameinherewiththemostexcitingviewofthisnewScienceandtheylookedatmelikeacoconuthadhitmeintheheadandtheywalkedout.Iwaslike,"OhmyGodmaybeIamcrazybecauseIsobelievewhatI'mintothatI'mcarriedawaybyitandIgotnervous


14

aboutit."

Iwentback,actually,toUniversityofVirginiawhereIgotmydegreeandspokewithmyformerpeoplewhowereonmyPhDcommittee.Oneofthemwasaworldclasscellbiologist,Imeanworldclass.Isatacrossfromhim,LennyRabin,LionelRabin.Isaid...BecausenowI'mconcernedbecauseIthought,"IsmyideareallycrazyandIdon'tseewheretheproblemisandeverybodyelsedoes?"

Isaid,"Lenny,I'mgoingtoexplainit.Ijustwantyoutotellmewhat'swrongwithit."Igivehimmyidea.Hesitsbackonhistableandhegoes,"Bruce,it'snotwhatwe'rethinking."Igo,"Iknowit'snotwhatyou'rethinking.Iwanttoknowwhereit'swrong."

"Ah,it'stoosimple."Ididexactlywhatyoudid.Ilaughedinhisfaceandhe'slike,"Okay,thisguy'scrazy."Ihadtocatchmyselfandsay,"ListenLenny,firstyearofgraduateschool,firstclassingraduateschool,youguystaughtmesomethingcalledOccam'sRazorandOccam'sRazorsays,"Thesimplesthypothesisisthemostlikelyhypothesisandshouldbeconsideredbeforeallothers."

IlaughedandIsaid,"Youcouldn'thavegivemeabetteranswerifIaskedforone.Isaid,'What'swrongwithit?'Yousaid,'It'stoosimple.'"Igo,"Okay,thenbydefinition,thisisthehypothesisshouldbeconsideredbeforeanybodyelse'shypothesis."ThenIendedupgoingtoStanford,andajobinterview.

IgotthereanditwaslikeIlookedintheaudienceitwaslike,"OhmyGod,ChairmanofPathology,ChairmanofDermatology,ChairmanoftheBiologyDepartment,ChairmanoftheBiochemistryDepartment,HeadofGenandTechResearchInstitute.Theseareallgeneticengineers.Myresearchandtalkis,"Whocaresaboutgenes?It'sreallytheenvironment."

IdidmytalklikeIdidatWisconsin,infrontofallthesegeneticists,andIcometotheconclusionandI'mwritingontheboardandIhearaphrasecomefromGodknowswhere.Ithought,"That'sfunny."IturnedaroundandItelltheaudienceafterI'mwritingmyconclusion,IturnaroundandrepeatjustwhatIheardinmyhead.

Igo,"Andtherefore,intheconclusion,ifyoubelievethegenesoftheend-allofeverything,you'renobetterthanafundamentalist."Theydidn'tlaugh.Ineversawsuchanapoplecticaudienceinmylife.Theywerered-facedlike,"Oh,oh."Theywereallwantingtoyellatmebecauseeachonewantedtoventbecauseatthatmoment,whatIdidwasIpulledtherugoutofeverythingbysaying,"Whocaresaboutgenetics?"

Theywerered-facedandtheywereyellingandIwasburrowedupagainstthebackboard.Theydidn'twantmetorespond,theyjustwantedtovent.TheheadthatgavemethatlittlewonderfulphrasethatIthoughtwassofunny,thenextvoiceoutofthatdetachedvoicewaslookingatthiswholeaudienceyellingandred-faced,thelittlevoiceinmyheadgoes,"Thisjobinterviewisn'tgoingwell."

Then,atsomepoint,Ikeptslippingdownuntilmybeltcaughtonthechalktrayandsaid,"That's


15

aboutaslowasyou'regoingtogo."AllofasuddenIstartedyellingback.IrememberthefirstthingthatIsaid,therestofitwasstreamedofconsciousness,butthefirstthingwassimple.Isaid,"TherewaslifeonthisplanetbeforetherewasDNA.Therefore,youcan'tstartwithDNA.Therewasalreadylifehere."

Dave: Explainthatforpeoplelistening.

Dr.Lipton: Thechemistryofourplanetisanevolutionofchemistry.Beforetherewaslifeonthisplanettherewasonlywhatiscalled'inorganicchemistry.'Minerals,rocks,salts,thingslikethat.Lifecomesfromorganicchemistry.Isay,"Yeah,butwheretheheckdoesorganicchemistrycomefrom?"Hesays,"Overtimethephotonsoflightfathersky,interfacesandhitstheearthandetchesthesurfaceofthat."

Thechemistryatthesurface,picksupphotons.Nowit'senergizedchemistry.That'scalledorganicchemistrywhenit'sgotenergytoitsoit'smobile,it'smovablecomparedtoarock.That'sjustsolidstable.Whenyouputphotonsoflight,it'snotsostable,nowitmovesaround.

Wheredoesorganicchemistrycomefrom?Sunlighthittingtheearth.Fathersky,motherearthcometogetherandcreatealayeroforganicchemistryatthesurfaceandthatorganicchemistryisthefoundationoflife.Isay,"Yeah,butitdidn'toccurallthechemistryatonce."Thereweresimplechemicals,organicchemistry,andthentheybecamemorecomplexchemistry.

Pointwas,therewerelivingformsoforganismsbeforethecomplexityofDNAhadbeencreated.Therefore,therewasnorealDNAandlifehadalreadystartedwhichleadsyouonlytoalogicalconclusion.ObviouslyDNAdidn'tdoit,itwasn'tevenhere.WhatwasuniquelydifferentaboutmyStanfordexperience,aftertheyallgotapoplectic,afterIyelledbackatthem,andIsaid,"Thankyouverymuch"figuring,"Ohherewegoagain.Thankyouverymuch."

Thentheyallapplaudedwhichwaslikecompletelysurprisedandtheguywhobroughtmetherefortheinterviewgavemealistofalltheseprominentpeople.Hesaid,"Afterlunchareyougoingtomeetwiththesepeople."IpushedthepaperbackandIsaid,"Listen,IthinkIirritatedthemenough.Maybewedon'twanttowasteanymoreoftheirtime."

Hepushedthepaperbacktomeandhesaid,"No,youprovokedthehelloutofthemandtheyreallylikethat."That'showIgotthejobbecauseitwasaprovocationthatmadethemfeellike,"Well,okay.He'ssayingsomething."

Dave: Thatsaysalotabouttheintegrityofthatgroupofpeople.Whensomeonepushesyourboundarieslike,"Okay,Iwanttoknowmore"versus,"Iwanttorunaway."Thatisafundamentalaspectofcourage.Galileodidthesamethingmany,manyyearsagoandhekindofgotkilledforthatsamething.Atleastthat'sillegalnowsoyou'resafethatway.

Dr.Lipton: Yeah,wellImademyWisconsinaudience,theywerereadytokillmeandmyStanfordaudiencewascurious,that'swhatitwas.ItwasinterestingbecauseIcameintoalabthatwasconventionalandafter4yearsinthatlab,whenIleft,theywerealreadyintothenewareaofresearchEpigeneticsin1992.ThatwastheforemoststageofthenewscienceEpigeneticsthatI


16

wastalkingabout.

Itwasn'tevenformulatedasascienceuntilafter1990soIwastherein1967soIhadagood20yearsofworkingonsomethingthatsciencehadn'tevenownedyet.Ihadajump.

Dave: Youlooklikeyouhaveasuntan.

Dr.Lipton: Yeah.

Dave: Isthatbecauseofthisinteractionbetweenphotonsandmatterandorganicchemistry?

Dr.Lipton: Absolutelyitis.It'sphotonicenergythatisreally...Thesystemrunsonallthisenergy.Matteroffact,ifyoucouldseeacellreallyclose,thesurfaceofthecellwouldlooklikealasershow.

Dave: Itdoes.

Dr.Lipton: Itdoesbecause...

Dave: Tellusmore,thisisawesome.

Dr.Lipton: Everytimeanelectronispassedfromonemoleculetoanothermolecule,astheelectronisreleased,aphotonoflightisreleased.Thewholebiologicalsystemisonshuttlingelectrons.It'sactuallycalledelectrontraintransport.Whyisitrelevant?Alloftheprocessesareinvolvedwithsendingelectrons,givingoffphotons,sothewholethingglows.

Itglowsinallthesedifferentcolorsbasedonwhattheenergylevelthatelectronwascomingfrom,givesoffadifferentphotonlight.Atthelevelofacell,ifyoucouldlookatit,itwouldlightupcontinuouslylikealasershowwithlightsgoingon.

That'sjustasecondaryconsequenceofpassingelectronfromAtoBwhichisthenatureofenergytransferinthesystem.

Dave: Thatwouldimplythatyoucanthenaddenergytoasystemusinglight.

Dr.Lipton: Yes.

Dave: Howfamiliarareyouwiththatkindofwork?

Dr.Lipton: Backinthe1960s,Irememberthatlaserlightintheredrangeandacertainvibrationalfrequencyofred,waybackthen,wasusedtoactivatethehealingresponseinwounds.Againthatwas,"Ohweirdpeoplearedoingthat.”Photonsoflightweredoingthat,andbonehealingwasmanifestthroughputtinganelectricalfieldaroundthebone.

Dave: Runningallthecurrentoveritright?

Dr.Lipton: Right.Conventionalbiologyis,andhere'stheunfortunatepart,conventionalbiologyisnota


17

freescienceinthesenseoffreethinking.Itisafundedscience.IfIwanttodoresearch,I'vegottogetsomemoney.Isaid,"Yeah,butwhere'sthegreatestsourceofmoneycomingfrom?"Theansweristhepharmaceuticalindustry.Isay,"Whyisitrelevant?"Becausewhenyougetagrantfromthepharmaceuticalindustry,you'realmostessentiallyworkingforthepharmaceuticalindustry.

ItbiasesresultssotheBritishJournalofMedicinepublishedanarticlethatsaid,"Theylookattheresultsonthesameresearchbutsplititupbasedonwhethertheresearchwasfundedbypublicmoneyortheresearchwasfundedbyprivatecorporatemoney."

Theresultswerewhenprivatecorporatemoney,likepharmaceuticalmoneywasfundingtheresearch,theresultswere4to5timesmoreinthefavorofthefunderthanwhenthemoneycamefrompublicresources.There'saninternalbiasofwhere'dyougetthemoneyfromthatalsoshapeshowyougettheresults.

Dave: It'sabsolutely...It'sjustbeenshownatthispoint,you'vegottoquestiontheresearchouttherewhichalsothrowsthefundamentalist,skepticcrowdintoapoplexybecausetheyonlybelieveindouble-blindedstudies.Itlocksthemintothisweirdchemicalindustryparadigmthatit'sdysfunctionalifyouwanttohackthehumanbody.

Dr.Lipton: It's100%justdysfunctional,it'sinfavorofthesystem.Peoplego,"Okaylook,baddrugs,illegaldrugsareaprobleminthisworld.Doyouknowhowmanypeoplediefromillegaldrugs?"Igo,"20,000people?"Theygo,"Yeah,maybe20,000peopledie."Igo,"Howmanypeoplediefromtakingprescriptiondrugs,300,000?"That'satruestory.

Wewageawaronanillegaldrug,whichtakesoffaminorityofpopulationandwelegitimizeapharmaceuticalindustrywith300,000peoplediefromtakingconventionalprescriptiondrugsandwedon'tcountthat.It'slike,"Oh,that'sthecostofdoingmedicine."Igo,"Damnexpensivetodomedicine."

Dave: Itsureis.Youtalkedabouttheredlaserthing.Istartedusinglowlevellighttherapy,lasersmostlybecausetheydidn'thaveenoughLEDsbacktheninthelate90s.Ifixedwhiplashin6minuteswitharedlaser.Iboughtthelaserandeversincethen,I'vebeenusinglightaspartofIdotoheal.Peoplearelike,"Whatthehellareyoudoing?Youhavelasersandlights.You'readamnhippie."I'mlike,"Whatever."Itseemstoworkreallyprofoundly.

Dr.Lipton: You'reahappyhippieifyouthinkaboutitright?

Dave: Exactly.I'malsoaSiliconValleytechguy.Cloudcomputingandallthisprettyimpactfulstuff.I'mlike,"Whatever,I'lldowhatworks,butI'm100poundslighterthanIusedtobesoI'mokaywiththis."Idon'treallycarethatI'mwearingcoloredglassesthatfilterthelightthatcomesintomysystembecauseit'sanenvironmentalvariablethatmatters.

Dr.Lipton: Ihavetotellyou,itwastheexactsamethingformebecausepeoplesay,"Well,you'reoffonthatweirdstuff."IturnaroundandItellyou,"MylifeonthisweirdstuffissomuchbetterthanwhenIwasdoingyourconventionalstuff.Iwouldn'tturnaround.I'mstayingonit."


18

Dave: Yeah,evenbutterinsteadofmilkincoffee.There'ssciencebehindit.There'sgoodchemistry

sciencebehindthatandBrainOctaneandallthat.Itdoesn'tmatter.Thenumberofpeoplewhoarelikeit'stheendoftheworld.Thisisatinything.Let'strylasersinyourcoffeeandseewhathappensright?

Iwanttogobacktowhatyousaidaboutthecellsreleasinglightbecausethat'ssomethingthatIhaven'ttalkedenoughaboutonBulletproofRadioandjustingeneralbecauseI'malittleconcernedthatthisissopowerfulpeoplewillharmthemselves.

Iboughtadeviceinthe...Itwasabout'97,'98.Itwasaveryhigh-poweredinfraredLED.Itwasusedbyitsinventortobasicallytransformhisbrain.Theguyhadsomuchofanaffectfromitthatafter9monthsofusingit,hewentbacktomedicalschoolanddeletedallinformationabouthisinventionfromtheinternetbecausehethoughthewasgoingtogetsued,whichisfine.I'mnotnaminghimrightnow.

Ifhe'slistening,andheprobablyisactually.HewouldknowwhoI'mtalkingabout.Iwouldusethisthingfor2minutesatatimeonthebackofmyheadanditreallychangesyourbraininaverystrongway.Itookit,2minutes.IputitoverthelanguageprocessingcenterinmybrainhereontheleftsideoftheheadbecauseI'veneverbeenabletohearFrenchorSwedish.Itsoundslikesomeonechewinggumtome.

Idon'tprocesssoundsthewaynormalpeopledosoit'sjusthardformetojustmakeoutthewords.After2minutesonthatpartofmybrain,Ispokeingarbledsentencesforabout6hours.Literally,likethisisabadthing.Eventuallyitwentawayandwhoknowsitprobablyimprovedthings,butthat'showpowerfullight...Thatwasn'tevenalaser.ThatwasaLED.

That'showpowerfullightisasabiologicalsignaltothebodyandthemechanismsnow,youtalkaboutcellmembranes,I'mlookingverymuchatmitochondrialactivationwiththesethings.Seemstobetheprimaryepigeneticmedicine.

Dr.Lipton: Whichisalsocellmembranesbecausethemitochondriaworksbecauseofthecellmembrane.

Dave: Becauseofthemitochondrialmembraneright?

Dr.Lipton: Yeah,andit'sjustasymbioticorganismthatislivingwithinourcellsandthere'sanexchange.It'sanintactorganism,butabout90%ofit'sgeneticshasbeentransferredtothenucleusoftheparentcell.It'sstillafree-livingentityintherewithamembraneandthemembraneforanyentityisreallythecontrolplace.

Dave: AsI'mworkingonmynewbookaboutmitochondria,someofthelittletinydetailsthatIdidn'tunderstand,mitochondria,theycommunicatewitheachother.Essentiallywetalkaboutwe'reacollectionofcells.Insideallofourcells,infact,insideyourbrain,there's10,000mitochondriainacell.

They'realltalkingtoeachotherandtalkingtothemitochondriainothercells.Arewea


19

collectionofbacteriathateachhastheirownpetridishthatareallinsideabigpetridish?Isthatabettermodelforwhatweare?

Dr.Lipton: It'sexactlywhatitis.Theintelligenceofasystemisbasedonthesurfaceareaofthemembrane.Themoremembrane,themoreintelligent.Bacteriagetlimitedbecausetheyarelikeinvertebrates,theyhaveashellontheoutside.Itsays,"AbacteriumcanonlyacquireXamountofmembrane.Itcan'tgetanymorebecauseit'scontrolledbytheoutsideshell.

Isay,"Ohwelltheninevolution,thefirstpartwastomakethisreallyintelligentbacterium?"Igo,"Yeah,butthenwhat?"Thesmartestbacteriumcouldnotgetsmarterbecauseofalimitationontheabilitytomakemoremembranebecauseoftheshellaroundtheoutside.

Isaid,"Well,thenevolutionstoppedbecauseevolutionwasmakingamoreintelligentorganismbyaddingmoremembrane."Reachestheendpointandsays,"Ican'tmakethebacteriumanysmarter.Ican'taddanymoremembrane."SoIsaid,"Oh,wellthenevolutionstopped?"Isaid,"Yesitdid,butthenitchangedmodality."ThenextmodalitywassinceIcouldn'tmakeasmarterindividualbacterium,thenwhathappenedwasevolutionsaid,"Whatifwebringabunchofbacteriatogether?"

Thentheyallsharetheirinformation.Igo,"Ah.Thenyoucouldgetmoreintelligence."Ifyou'reamemberofthecommunitythenyouhaveaccesstoalloftheinformationinthecommunity.Thenextleveloflife...Thefirstlevelmakethesmartestbacterium.Thesecondlevelwasafteryou'vegotthesmartestbacterium,bringthemtogetherinacommunity.

Thisiswhat'scalledabiofilm.WhatIrepresentedwasamembrane-boundcommunityofalldifferentkindsofbacteria.Notthesameone,differentones,buttheyintegratedtheiractivities.Somewerebreathingoxygen,andotherswereworkingwithoutoxygenanaerobically.Someweredoingthisfunction,someweredoingthatfunction.What'dtheydo?Insidethatmembranethosebacteriacreatedanintegratedcommunityanditevolvedtobecomewhatwecalltheamoeba.

Theamoebaiswhat?Amembrane-boundsackthatusedtobealltheindividualbacteria.Theonlyonethatstillretainsthebacterialconfigurationarethemitochondria.Isay,"Yeah,butsowhatisanamoebabydefinition?"Anintegratedcommunityofbacteriaforenhancingtheintelligenceofthesystem.Isay,"Oh."

Nowthatwehaveanamoebawithabigmembraneontheoutside,wecanmakeasmarterandsmarteramoebabymoreandmoremembrane,nocapsule."Isay,"Yeah,butitstillreachesacertainsizebecauseifthecellgetstoobig,it'slikeaballoonfilledwithalotofwater."Ifthere'salittlewaterintheballoon,wecouldthrowitaround,nobodyhasaproblem.Youputalotofwaterinaballoonandtryandthrowit,theballoonruptures,thewatercomesout.

Isay,"Ohacellmembranewillruptureifitgetstoobig."Igo,"Oh,sothefirstphase,bacteria,becomethesmartesttheycanbe.Secondphase,bacteriaformacommunitywhichthenintegratesandbecomesanamoebawhichthentheamoebawentthroughevolutiontomakethesmartestamoeba,reachedthemaximumsize,andgo,"Oh,stoppedagain?"


20

Igo,"Yeah,butthenguesswhat?Theamoebascametogetherandformedacommunity."Isay,

"Whatdidthatdo?"Isaid,"Well,50trillionamoebasaremakingthisacommunity."Isay,"Whathappensthen?"Isaid,"Well,youfilloutthebrainuntilyoucan'tputanymorebraininthere.Ohwe'rebacktoIcan'tmakeasmarterhuman."Isaid,"Thenwhat?"Isaid,"It'sarepetitivepattern."

Dave: Yeah.

Dr.Lipton: Oncetheindividualorganismreachesit'shighestability,intelligencewise,andcan'tgetanymore,thenextlevelistojoinupandmakeacommunity.Theevolutiononthisplanetrightnowistheevolutionthatfirstwelookatourselvesasindividualelements.Igo,"Yeah,buttheevolutioniswearecellsinabiggerthingcalledhumanity.Whatwe'reseeingistheworldgoingthroughcrisis.What,becausewehaveseparatedourselves.Therealityisno,theevolutioniscomingtogether.

Bordersarebreakingdown.Politicsisstrangeineveryplacerightnow,especiallyhere.Isay,"Why?"It'sabreakdownofseparation.Theinternetistheevolutionofaglobalnervoussystemthatcanintegrate7billionhumancellsintohumanity.Wherearewe?We'reinanevolutionaryupheaval.

Theoldsystemisnotsustainable,crashing.Thenewoneisjustbeginningtogrowandyourwork,forme,iscritical.That'swhyI'msohonoredtobeherewithyoubecauseknowledgeispower.Wehavebeendisenfranchisedforalotofknowledge,disempowered.Theonlywaytoempowerpeopleissendthemessagesouttothecommunity.

WhyI'msoexcitedtobehereisyouareanevolutionaryleaderbecauseyou'rebringingapublicanewvisionandnotjustthe,"Ohthisisaniceidea."No,thisisascientificrevisionofourworld.Thankyouforthisopportunitybecauseaseverypersonrealizesthey'reanindividualpower,thenifthepeopletakebackthepower,thevastmajorityofpeopleonthisplanetwantthesamething.

Peaceandharmony,ajob,food,placetolive.Theyallwantthesamething.It'sonlyasmallpercentthatsay,"Screweverybodyelse.Iwantallofit."Whenpeoplegetempoweredandyouofferthis,thankyouDavefordoingthat.Whenyouofferit,theygetknowledge,knowledgeispowerandthatis,ourevolutionisnotaphysical.Humansisnotgoingtochange.Humanconsciousnessistheevolution.

Dave: You'vesaidinsomeofyourwritingthathumansspend5%oftheirtimeintheconsciousmindand95%inthesubconsciousmind.Itseemstomethatthere'sawaytoputmoreenergyineachofushumancells,ineachpersonbygoingdowntothecellularlevelandhackingthat.Youchangetheenvironmentaround,we'vegrownnewmitochondria.Alotofmysupplementsaredesignedtosupportmitochondria.

Eventheketones,justingeneral,rightnow.It'sputtingmoreelectronsintoyourselves.Youcandomoreasamemberofaglobalcommunityandfranklyitmakesuslessassholic,ifthat'sa


21

word.

Dr.Lipton: I'mseeingthatinthepathologybook,yes.It'ssoimportantbecausewehavehadsomuchpowerbutourbeliefprogramminghasbeendisempowering.Thishappensforkids.For7yearsthey're,"Whoareyou?"Youhearfromyourparentsyou'renotthisandyoucan'tdothatandyou'relimited.

It'sacontinuousdisempowerment.Oursubconsciousprogramming,whichasyoumentioned,isrunning95%ofthetime,isprograms.Itdoesn'tencourageourhealthandvitality,infactthemajorityofprogramstakeawayourpower,ourvitalityandourhealth.

Whenwelookattheillnessonthisplanetthatwe'vementioned,onepercentisthroughthegenetics.Isay,"Yeahwellthenwhat'sthevastmajorityofillnessdueto?"It'snotafrailty,it'snotavulnerabilityonthepartofmybiology.

ItisaproblemintheinformationthatI'msendingfrommyinterpretationofaworld,to50trillioncells,preparingthemtodeal,notwiththerealworld,butdealwiththeworldthatI'mtellingthemexists.

Alivercelldoesn'tknowwhat'sgoingon.Theonlywayalivercellcanadjustitsbiologyisthenervoussystemreadstheenvironmentandthensendsmessagetothelivercellsaying,"Thisisgoingoninenvironment.Weneedyoutodothis."Igo,"Wellthisiscoolexceptforthefactthatifwelookattheenvironmentwithglasses,filters,twopeoplelookingatthesameenvironmentdon'tseethesamething."

Dave: Exactly.

Dr.Lipton: Thepointisiswhatyouseeistranslatedintochemistrythatcontrolsthecells.Ifyouhaveanegativeoutlook,eveninthemostbeautiful,supportingworld,yourlivercelldoesn'tknowit'sbeautifulandsupporting.Yourlivercellonlygetstheinformationyourmindsent.Thereforeitturnsoutthehealthproblemsarenotphysical,biologicalinorigin.Thehealthproblemsareconsciousnessandlimitationanddisempowermentthatmakesuspowerlessandinbeingpowerlesswearefrailandvulnerable.

Dave: Themechanismforthenervoussystemsensingtheenvironmentaroundyou,there'sapsychologicalcomponentwhereyoutellyourselfastoryandtheglassishalffullortheglassishalfempty.There'salsoanenvironmentalsensingthing.AreyoufamiliarwithDouglasWallace'swork?

Dr.Lipton: RightnowIcan'tsayIdo.

Dave: Ithoughtyoumighthavebeen.Iwouldn'tjustrandomlyname-dropthere.He'sbeendoingalotofworkrecentlyonmitochondrialenvironmentalsensing.Theverylatest,thisisjustinthelast,justsince2013really.

Lookingatquantumbiologyandlookingathowpotentiallytheymaybethemediatorforhow


22

wesensetheworldaroundusandthenthere'sanothermechanism,andonewhereIthinkyou'vespentalotofyourtime,wherethere'sthisinternalenvironmentalsensor.

Whereyoutellyourselfastoryaboutrealityandthatchangesyourcells.Thenthecellssensewhatkindoffoodisthere?Whatkindoflightisthere?Whatkindoftemperatureisthere?Thethateffectsmitochondriaenergyproductionviatheselightpathwaysyou'retalkingabout.

Ican'tsaythatoneofthesystemsisbiggerormoreimportantthantheother,butitseemslikethere'sexternalenvironmentalsensorsthathappenontheskin,inthecells,withoutnervoussysteminvolvement.Thenthere'sanervoussysteminvolvementaswell.Doyoubuythatpictureoftheworld?

Dr.Lipton: Ireallykeepthenervoussystemalwaysinvolvedwhetheryou'reconsciousornotconscious.Ithastobewhatisinterfacingtheoutsideworldwithwhat'sgoingonintheinsideworld.Theinsideworldistherearedrivestosurviveandinbiologywecallitthebiologicalimperative.Theimperativerepresentsthepoint.There'snoorganismthatifyouthreatentokillit,it'llgo,"Okay,killme."

Evenabacterium,whenthreatened,willtryeverymaneuverpossibletostayalive.Isay,"OhmyGod,themostprimitiveorganismhasadrivetostayalive."Isay,"Yeah,wedon'tknowhowitworks.It'scalledthebiologicalimperative."Thebiologicalimperativeisthedriveto...youneedwater,you'vegottohavewater.Youneedfood,you'regoingtohavetohavefood.Everythingtokeepthesystemaliveiswhatyou'relookingfor.

ThatdriverequiresaconstantscanningoftheenvironmenttoseeifIshouldadjustsomethingordosomethingunconscious,notconscious,unconsciouslytosurvive.Ifaballiscomingtowardyourface,youwillwinkyoureyewithout...Itwasanervoussystemresponse,butitwasn'tconscious,ithadnothingtodowithit.

Alotofthedrivesandthatcontrolledbehavior,belowconsciousness.Asaresult,wesay,"WellIdidn'tthinkaboutit,itjusthappened."Igo,"Yeah,butit'sstillanervoussystembecauseitmustintegrate50trillioncells."That'stheonlywayacommunityworksiseverybody'sinformedaswhat'sgoingon.

Thefunctionofthenervoussystemistoprovidethatcommunication.Evenknowyoudon'tseeitasamentalprocessing,Iwalkoutsideandit'scoldout,mynervoussystempicksupontheskin,thetemperatureandthat'ssenttothebrain,subconsciousthatsays,"Ohwebetterwarmthebodyupbecauseit'scoldout."

Ichangedmyphysiologytowarmup.Iwalkoutsideandit'shotout.Isayit'spickedupbytheskin,butthenervoussystem'sinterpretingthatit'shotandsays,"Oh,Imustengagethesethingstocoolyoudown."Igo,"Theconsciousmindhadnothingtodowiththat."They'recompletelybelowconsciousness,yetthere'sanervoussystem.Somethinghadtoreadtheenvironment,andthenrelayinformationaboutwhatwasgoingonintheenvironment.

Ifyoudisconnectthenervoussystemfromthesystem,thenincells,thenervoussystemisthe


23

membrane,theskin,andit'sjustsopeople,"Ohtheskinisthenervoussystem."Igo,"Ifyouunderstandhumanembryology,ournervoussystemiscomingfromtheskin."Weandthecellshaveaparallelunderstandingsoonthecell'sskintherearereceptorsjustlikewehaveeyes,ears,nose.

They'remolecularreceptors,butequivalent.Relevant,ifyoucutthereceptorsoffsothere'snoreadingoftheenvironment,thecellhaszerobehavior.Itjustsitsthere.Ithasnoresponse.Oncethereceptorsarereplacedonthesurface,thenthecellengagesinbehavior.Whatwasthepoint?Behaviorwaselicitedbytheenvironmentalstimuli.IfIcouldn'treadtheenvironmentalstimulithenthereisnobehavior.

Basicallyitsays,"Yeah,butthevastmajorityofourbiologyiscontrolledbydirectenvironmentnervoussystemcellwithoutconsciousnessbeinginvolvedatall."

Dave: Withoutconsciousnessbeinginvolvedatall.Someofthecellbehaviors,sayinyourarm,thecellsinyourarm,arehappeningatthecellmembranelevelinthecellsinthearm,andthenthesignalgoestothemind,andthenthemindchangesthebiologythewayit'sgoingtochangethebiology,butsomeofthebiologymayhavejustchangedbecauseifyoushinealaseronyour...

Likeifyougetasuntan,thefactthatyou'regettingmelanininyourcellsprobablyisn'tbecauseasignalwenttothebrainandthenthebraincausedyoutoreleaseMSHtogrowmelanin,it'salocalresponseright?

Dr.Lipton: Itcanbeboth.

Dave: Icanbe,okay.Both.

Dr.Lipton: Icanbeboth.

Dave: Okay.

Dr.Lipton: Yeah,becauseifyousayoneortheotherthen...I'llgiveyouanexample,thenyou'llgivemeanexampleandIgo,"Howaboutboth?"

Dave: I'mlookingforvalidationofthebothhypothesis[crosstalk01:01:10].

Dr.Lipton: Ofcourseit'sbothbecauseItakethecellsoutofthesystem,disconnectitfromthenervoussystem,puttheminapetridish,they'llrespondtotheenvironmentdirectly.

Dave: Gotit.

Dr.Lipton: Thenthequestionis,asIsaid,thelivercellisinsidemybody.It'ssupposedtoadjustitsbiologytomatchmyneeds,thedrivetostayalive,andsothelivercellmusthaveareadingoftheenvironmentforittoknowwhatbehavioritshouldproduce.

Ifyousendthewronginformationtothecells,then,bydefinition,thebehaviortheyengagewill


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notbeinsyncwiththeworldinwhichyoulife.Thatisthefoundationofdisease,meaningyou'reorganizingacellularcommunitytosomethingthatdoesn'texistifit'sjustamade-upbeliefinyourmind.

That'swherethebiggestproblemcomesfrombecauseourworldtodayisdrivenbyleadershipthatknowsthattheycanmanipulateyourintelligencebyputtingyouinfear.Fearcauses,notonlyaphysiologicalshutdownofmyhealthandmybiologyandmyimmunesystem,butpeopledon'trecognizethisandtheyshouldbecauseelectiontimeishappeningandlikeonepartyoutthereisscaringthehelloutofeverybodysaying,"Heybeafraidofeverydamnthing."

Igo,"Whoa,what'srelevantinthat?"Isay,"Whenyou'reafraid,rememberthestresshormonesredirecttheflowofthebloodofthebodytothearmsandlegsbecausethat'swhereyou'regoingtohavetousefightorflight."

Theydon'tknowthis,mostpeople,isthatwhenthestresshormonesarereleasedinthebody,thebloodvesselsintheforebrain,whichisthinking,consciousintelligence,thestresshormonescausethosebloodvesselstosqueezeshutandpushthebloodtothehindbrainwherefightorflightreactionisgoingtoberapidlycontrolled.

Isaid,"What'stheconsequenceofastresshormoneshot?"Igo,"Itmakesyoulessintelligentbecausenowyourbehaviorisnotcontrolledbyconsciousprocessingandreasoning,yourbehavior'snowcontrolledbystimulusresponse,reactivereflexbehavior."It'sunfortunatebecausewhenpeoplegetintothatmindset,shutdowntheconsciousness,andthey'reinfear,alltheywantissomebodywithabigsticktobeinfrontandknockoffallthebadguys.

ThenwehaveonePresidentialcandidatethatsays,"Iamthebigstick.Iwillprotectyou."Scaringpeoplefirst,andIsay,"Whathappens?"Whetherit'sarealfearornot,ifyouscaresomebody,theircellswillnotdistinguishwhetherit'srealornot.Tothecells,itisrealbecausewhateverchemistrythebrainsends,that'sallthecellscanrespondtosoifIscareyou,thenitbecomesrealimportanttoknowthatthatfearisultimatelygoingtocauseaproblem.

Dave: Verywellsaid.Ihaveonemorequestionforyou.Thisisaboutcellmembranes.Peoplelisteningareeitherjumpingupanddownexcitedorgoing,"Whyishetalkingaboutmembranes?"I'lltryandprovidesomecontextforourlisteners.

AguynamedGilbertLingwhoisoneofthebigfathersoflookingatgels,acollagengel,whichisabigpartofcellularbiology.He'ddonesomeexperimentswhereheremovescellmembranesentirelyandhascellsthatstillseemtofunction.Ialwaysbelievethatthelittlecellmembranemadeoftinydropletsoffatwasfundamentaltothecell.

Here'saguythat'sremovedtheoutercellmembraneandleftthemitochondrialmembranesintactanddiscoveredthingsstillwork.Whatimplicationsdoesthathavetoyouasacellularbiologist?

Dr.Lipton: Theimplicationformeverymuchisthataeucharyoticcell,anucleuscontainingcell,thekindthatthehumanbodyismadeof,isfilledwithmembranes.It'snotjustamembraneonthe


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outside,there'salltheorganelles,everyorganelle.Gobackandunderstandthis.Everyfunctionofainternalmembraneinoneoftheselikeamoeba-likecells,whetherit'smitochondria,endoplasmicreticulum,golgi,nuclearenvelope,whatever.

Everyoneofthosefunctions,wherewasthatinthebacterium?Theanswerwastheoutermembranebecausetheyonlyhadonemembrane.Allofthefunctionsoriginallywereontheoutside,butthroughevolution,membranewasthentakentotheinsidetofreeuptheoutside.

Thenthethingisthis,youmightremovethemembranefromacell,butthecellhastheabilitytotakethemembranethatalreadyisinthereandrecoveritselfagain,andhealitself.

There'sanopportunity,aperiodoftime,whentheinternalmembranesarestillgoingtocontrolthebiologybutitmustrebuildtheoutermembranetostayalive.

Dave: There'ssomethingverycoolhappeninginthecollagenstuffinsidethecell.Thenyouhavethesemitochondrianmembranesandthesearesoimportant.Alotofmyownbiohacksarecellularmembranebiohacks.Theinfraredsaunaischangingthewaterinthebody.Itchangescellmembranepermeability.AllthelightstuffthatIdo.Itchangesmembranesforsure,butalsoyousaytoomuchfishoil.Whathappenstothecellmembrane?

Dr.Lipton: Theideaisthis.Ifyoutaketoomuchofsomething,thesystemcangetridofanythingitdoesn'twant.That'swhyalotofpeopletakesupplementsandthentheylookintheurineandit'slike,"Wow,lookatallI'mpeeingout.Allofthisstuff."Youcanonlyputinsomuchthatitneeds.Anythingbeyondwhatitneedsislike,"I'llstorewhatIcan,andwhateverisbeyondthat,I'mgoingtogetridofitagain."

Theissueisyoucouldoversupplyandyetthesystemisregulatoryandsays,"Ifyouputtoomuchin,we'llgetridofsomeofit."

Dave: NotasmuchinthecellmembraneasIwouldlike.WhatI'veseenisyoutakepharmaceuticalleveldosesoffishoil,waymorethanyou'regettingintheenvironment.Itgetsincorporatedinthecellmembranestothepointwheretheybecometoofluidanddysfunctional.Youendupwithlessfunctionalcellphysiology,butifyoudon'thaveenoughDHAandEPAinyourcells,thenyourmitochondrialmembranedoesn'tworkverywell,andyou'rewalkingaroundwithoutenoughenergy.

Thereseemstobeasweetspot.Whatirritatesme,mygoalis,bytheway,tohavethemostexpensivepeeontheplanet.Iwantmybodytohaveeverysupplement,everymoleculeitcouldpossiblyuse,knowingitwillgetridoftheonesitdoesn'twant,butsomeofthesethings,liketheoils,youtakemargarine,itgetsincorporatedinyourcellmembranes.

Youtakefishoil,itgetsincorporatedinyourcellmembranes,butsometimesthosechangesarenotbeneficialeventhoughfishoilitselfiskindofgood.I'mconcernedaboutthat.

Dr.Lipton: Yeah,that'satoxicinterference.Theideaisthereisaphysicalchemistrywhichisatthebottomlineenergy,butit'sexpressisphysicalchemistry,andifyoudistortthephysicalchemistry,


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you'regoingtodistortsignalingthatgoesthroughthatphysicalchemistry.Basically,that'swhywelookatthedietassoimportant.

Tomehowimportantisadiet?Igo,"Verysimply,understandingthis,andthatisthatIgrowcellsintissueculture.IgrowcellsintissuecultureandthesignificanceisImakeculturemedium.

Imaketheculturemediumandthesignificanceabouttheculturemediumisthatit'srepresentingblood."Theyousay,"Well,Bruce,whenyoumakeyourculturemediumtofeedyourcells,wheredoyougettheingredients?"Igo,"NotatKmart."Ionlygoforthebestingredientsaspossiblebecausethelifeofthecellisbasedontheseingredients.

Whenwehaveadiet,wedon'trealize,yourdietisusedtomakebuildingblocksforyourblood.Whywouldyouputtoxiccrapinthereifyouknowthatthisisthemostimportantelementofcommunicationandthereforeeatinglessthanhealthyfood,industrialfarmfoodandthattoxiccraplikethatislikeyouaremakingculturemedium.

Iwouldneverputanythingifitwasn'tthefinestgradeintomytissueculture.Why?BecauseIcanseemycellsrespondinstantly.Iputsomethingthatisnon-adequateinthattissuecultureandIcouldwatchthecellsautomaticallychangetheirshapeandstarttogetsick.

IfI'mdoingthatinatissueculture,inmyskin-coveredpetridish,youcanbetyourlifeI'mgoingtomakesurethatIputthebestingredientsintomakethebestculturemediumpossible.Thenthatgivesusthestory.

Dave: Verywellsaid.Infact,ifyoujustsummedupkindoftheentirefirstbookaboutit.Whatdoyoudobeforeandduringpregnancytohavethebest,healthiest,smartestpossiblebaby?It'sthat.Cleanuptheculturemediumwhereyou'regoingtogrowanewcell,oranewbody.

Dr.Lipton: Exactly.

Dave: Whatapowerfulwayofsayingthat.Thankyou.

Dr.Lipton: Iappreciateit.Thankyouagainforlettingmehaveopportunitytotalktoyouraudience.Empowerthem,becausewearesopowerfulandyetwehavebeenprogrammedtobelievethatwearenotpowerful.AsIsaid,ifthat'swhatyoubelieve,thenyouhavelostyourpower.Thiswasanopportunitytobringpowerback.Thankyou.

Dave: You'reverywelcome.I'vebeenalittlebitderelictinmyresponsibilityherebecauseIwantedtotalktoyouaboutboththeBiologyBelief,yourfirstbigbook,whichisincrediblyground-breaking.AlsoyouhavetheHoneymoonEffect,yournewbookonrelationshipswhichwehaven'teventalkedabout.I'mgoingtohavetohaveyoubackontheshowifyou're...

Dr.Lipton: Iwouldlovetocomebackandthat'sagreatonebecauseaftertheshowofwhathappens,thestoryisverysimple,BiologyBeliefrevealsthatwehavebeenprogrammedespeciallyduringthatdevelopmentalphase,first7years.Therelevanceaboutthatiswhatwouldhappenifyougetoutoftheprogram?Theansweriswhenpeoplefallinloveandtheycreate,forthem,heavenon


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earth,thatistheactualexpressionforthefirsttimeintheirlifethey'renotplayingtheprogram.

It'stakingtheredpillaccordingtotheMatrixandgettingoutoftheprogram.You'reregular,every-daystruggledlifeistheprogram,butthemomentyoufallinlove,allofasuddenyou'renotplayingtheprogram.Isay,"Yeahandwhathappenedtothestruggle?Itdisappeared."

Allofasuddeneverythingwasbeautiful.Itsays,"Ah,wellthentheprogrambecomesimportanttounderstand."Iwouldlovetocomebackandhaveanopportunitytotalkaboutthatwithyou.

Dave: Iwillmakethathappen.Itmightbealittlewhileandif...IgototheBayareaonoccasion.Iusedtolivetherefor20yearssoifIcaninterviewyoulive,Iwill.Ialwayslovegettingachancetointerviewpeoplelive.Eitherway,we'lldoit.

Dr.Lipton: Iwouldlovetodoit.ComedownandvisitmehereinSantaCruz,it'llbegreat.

Dave: IusedtoteachatUCSantaCruzsothat'll...

Dr.Lipton: Okay,I'mintheneighborhoodsocomeandvisit.

Dave: Awesome.OnemorethingbeforeIletyougofortoday.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrow,Bruce,andsaid,"IwanttobebetterateverythingIdoinmylife.Iwanttokickassateverything.Whatarethe3mostimportantpiecesofadviceyouhaveforme?"Whatwouldyoutellthem?

Dr.Lipton: I'dtellthemnumberoneisthatthegreatestlimitationwehaveoftheprogrammingwhichisdisempoweringandchildpsychologistsandenvironmentalbiologistwillrevealthatthisprogrammingisindeedabout70%negative,self-sabotaging,andlimitingandthatthefirstthingisthis.Recognizetheprogramandchangetheprogrambecausethat'showyougetyourpowerback.

Number2,learntoliveinharmonyinyourenvironmentbecausethat'swhatevolution'sallabout.Evolutionisnotcompetition.Evolutioniscooperation.Thereforewe,asacivilization,havebeenantagonisticinourbehaviortoevolutionbecauseit'sallbasedoncompetition.

Lastly,recognizethatloveisprobablythegreatesthealingagentonthisplanet.Thevibrationofloveiswholenessandharmonyandhealth.Beinginloveisreallygreat.

Dave: Very,verywellsaid.Wow.Whatanamazing,amazingconversationwe'vehad.I'mnotsurprised,giventhedisruptivenatureofyourworkandhowyou'vebeenreally...You'vebeenvindicatedoverthelast,I'dsay20orsoyears.

Youwereright,youstucktoyourguns,youpissedoffalotofpeople,butlookepigeneticsisasrealasanythingelseandyouhavewaymorepowerknowingaboutitandusingitthanyoudojustsittingaroundgoing,"Well,IguessIhavethesegenes.I'mscrewed."

Ournextinterviewtoo,we'lltouchonthefactthatIjusthadmyownstemcellsinjectedintomybrainprophelactically.Wecantouchaboutthat.We'llbetalkingaboutthatattheBulletproof


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conferencethisyear.I'mreallyhopingIcangetyouasaspeakerfortheconferencetheyearafterthat.

Thanksagain.HaveawonderfuldayandIlookforwardtohavingyoubackontheshow.

Dr.Lipton: Thankyousoverymuch.Thankyoueverybodyintheaudienceforlistening.Allofyouaretheculturalcreativesthataremakingabigdifferenceinourworld.Evolutionwillcomefromyousothankyou.

Dave: DidyouknowthatBulletproofisonInstagram?Youcanfindusatbulletproofcoffeeormypersonalfeedisdave.asprey.Hopetoseeyouthere.

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