Flatform

Muzej suvremene umjetnosti

Kadar iz sin­kroniziranih videa koji tvore insta­laciju

Still frame from the installation videos

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Problem javnog prostora i njegove artikulacije i regulacije va žno je pitanje oko kojeg se strastveno pozicioniraju urbanisti, arhitek-ti, umjetnici, aktivisti i građani. U propitivanju i analizi namjene i svrhe javnog prostora nije izostavljen ni Muzej suvreme ne um-jetnosti. Odnos MSU-a i njegove uloge u javnom prostoru pod -crtan je, između ostalog, i prijedlogom vrta na krovnim terasama Muzeja suvremene umjetnosti što je iznesen u knjizi Saše Šim-prage Zagreb, javni prostor. Taj se prijedlog oslanjao na činjeni-cu da je prostor na kojem je MSU iz -građen, sve do njegove izgradnje bio ispunjen urbanim vrtovima. Po zivom umjetničkoj grupi Flatform željeli smo ispitati ali i osnažiti veze MSU-a i lo-kalne zajednice, nastaviti tradiciju di-jaloga o prostornim politikama te čvr-šće pozicionirati ulogu Muzeja unu-tar javnog prostora grada. Projekt Flat forma Stvari drugačije osnažuje građansku participaciju kroz umjetničku akciju provedenu u nekoliko etapa. Nakon sni-manja teritorija oko MSU-a, Flatform montira snimke i pomoću mobilne strukture, takozvanog Flatcasea poziva zainteresirane građane da ih pogledaju i konstruiraju pripovijesti. Flatform po-tiče stanovnike da smisle vlastitu priču, osobnu ili izmišljenu, bez doslovne veze s njihovim video-snimkama. Sljedeća etapa je pozivanje zainteresiranih građana da ispričaju tu pripovijest pred kamerom u studiju MSU-a. Konačni rezultat je izložba koja video projekcijom potiče posjetitelje da razmotre ideju kako se „stvari mogu sagledati drugačije“

Zanima me zašto smatrate instituciju muzeja dobrom po-lazišnom točkom za projekt Stvari drugačije?Naš projekt želio je povezati naše aktivnosti s MSU-om, ne sa-mo zato što je Muzej naručitelj ovog projekta, nego zato što

Stvari drugačije

Razgovor s grupom FLATFORM vodila je Leila Topić

Za vrijeme sni­ma nja s vrhova zgrada u Novom Zagrebu

Filming from some of the rooftops in Novi Zagreb

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The issue of public space and its articulation and regulation is an important issue that passiona­tely absorbs urban planners, ar­chitects, artists, activists and ci­tizens. The Museum of Contempo­rary Art (MSU) has not been left out of the questioning and analysis of the intention and purpose of public space. The relationship between MSU and its role in public space has also been underli­ned in the proposal of a garden on the Museum’s rooftop terra­ce, expounded in Saša Šimpraga’s book Zagreb, javni prostor (Za-greb, Public Space). The proposal was based on the fact that the space MSU is built on consisted, until its construction, of commu­nity gardens. By inviting the Flatform art group we wanted to que­stion, but also strengthen the ties between MSU and the local community, continue the tradition of dialogue on spatial policies and position the Museum’s role in urban public space more fir­mly. Flatform’s project Things Otherwise empowers civil partici­pation through an art action conducted through several stages. After filming the territory around MSU, Flatform edited the foo­tage and using a mobile structure, the so­called Flatcase, invited interested citizens to look at them and create narratives. Flat­form motivated them to come up with their own stories, perso­nal or fictional, without an immediate connection with their video images. The following stage entailed inviting interested citizens to tell that story in front of the camera at MSU’s studio. The final result is an exhibition in which a video installation stimulates the visitors to consider “how to look at things in a different manner”.

I am interested to know why you consider a museum institu-tion a good starting point for the project Things Otherwise.Our project aimed to connect our activities with MSU, not only be­cause the Museum commissioned this project, but also because

Things Otherwise

Interview with FLATFORM by Leila Topić

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smo željeli ispitati terito-rij, krajolik i veze koje on uspostavlja s lokalnom za-jednicom. Globalni je trend da se novi muzeji grade na gradskim periferijama te su veze i odnosi koji se stvaraju između instituci-je i lokalnog stanovništva složene i zanimljive. Svje-sni smo, dakako, kako je naš projekt tek početak procesa integracije Muze-ja suvremene umjetnosti u krajolik. Riječ je o dugom pro cesu i trebati će još či-tav niz ovakvih, odnosno sličnih inicijativa kako bi integracija Muzeja u lokal-nu zajednicu bila uspješna. Specifičnost ovog projekta leži u či-njenici da nismo željeli proučavati svakodnevne situacije sta-novnika Novog Zagreba nego smo željeli pokazati neke drugači-je perspektive. Tako smo, primjerice, snimali zgrade iz ptičje per-spektive, s vrha krova, pokazujući situacije u kojima stanovnici dolaze u kontakt s novim objektom u krajoliku. Nakon dolaska, prvih nekoliko dana provedenih u Zagrebu, ispitivali smo novo-zagrebački teritorij i snimali ga kako bi proučili odnose poveza-nosti Muzeja i građana. Nakon snimanja kratkih, trominutnih vi-deo-segmenta krenuli smo u drugu etapu projekta te smo po-moću Flatcasea krenuli u komunikaciju s lokalnom zajedni com. Flatcase funkcionira kao svojevrsni atraktor koji privlači pogle-de prolaznika. Oni zastaju i upuštaju se u razgovor a što rezulti-ra konstrukcijom pripovijesti.

Za vrijeme istraživanjaDuring the inspections

Za vrijeme sni ma nja s vrhova zgrada u

Novom Zagrebu

Filming from some of the rooftops

in Novi Zagreb

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we wanted to put the territory, landscape and its relati­onships with the local community to the test. The glo­bal trend of building new museums on the city outskirts makes relationships and connections created betwe­en the institution and the locals very complex and in­

teresting. Naturally, we are aware that our project is only the beginning of the integration process of the Museum of Contemporary Art with the landscape. This is a far­reaching projects and it will take an entire series of such or similar initiatives to make the Museum integra­tion with the local community succe­ssful. One specific feature of this pro­ject is the fact that we wanted to show different perspectives. For instance, we filmed the landscapes from a bird’s eye view, from the top of the buildings’ ro­ofs, demonstrating situations when ci­tizens interact with the new object in

landscape. After arriving, for the first couple of days spent in Zagreb, we surveyed the Novi Zagreb zone and filmed it in order to analyse the relations between the Museum and the citizens. After making short, three­minute video segments, we continued with stage two of the project. Using the Flatcase we launched communication with the local community. The Flatcase works as an attractor device. People stop and talk, which in turn results in a construction of narrative.

Why are the stories of passers-by important? Why are you showing them together with the images of landscape?It is about creating portraits of sorts. There is an analogy with the portrait because we ask people to face their own landscape

Neke od zgrada s čijih krovova

je snimano

Some of the buildings whose

rooftops were used as filming

locations

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Zašto su važne pripovijesti pro-laznika? Zašto ih prikazujete us-poredno sa snimkama krajolika? Posrijedi je stvaranje svojevrsnih portreta. Naime, postoji paralela s prikazivanjem portreta utoliko što pozivamo ljude da se suoče s vla-stitom slikom koja je nastala iz dru-gačije perspektive, poziv na suoče-nje s vlastitim identitetom. Bitno je da se sve silnice identiteta, ali či-tav niz drugih pojmova unutar ono-ga što nazivamo „općom imenicom“, slije u smislenu cjelinu. Te kompo-nente unutar cjeline se ne poništavaju nego nastavljaju funkci-onirati kao pojedinačni realiteti ali pridonose općoj slici unutar pojma. K tome, „opća imenica“ se ne ograničava samo na druš-tvenu komponentu. Naš rad, bitno je istaknuti, nije samo jedno-stavan odraz pomalo pomodnog diskursa društveno angažira-ne umjetnosti, jer smatramo da pojmovi društveno-političkog angažmana nisu tako jednostavni.

Voljela bih detaljnije objašnjenje tog stava?Pojasniti ću naš pogled na umjetnost: smatramo da umjetnost ne može voditi bitke s moći, s vlašću jer se ta bitka ne može do-biti. Umjetnost ne može biti angažirana nego može djelovati ge-rilskim akcijama. Tu bismo se željeli nadovezati na filozofa Gille-sa Deleuzea, koji doduše govori o filozofiji, ali ideja je primjenjiva i na umjetnost. Smatramo da umjetnost ne može govoriti pro-tiv nečega nego mora govoriti „za“, zagovarati. Usto, za razumi-jevanje našeg djelovanja važan je i Giorgio Agamben koji govori o našem društvu koristeći pojam „izvanredno stanje“, no u kon-tekstu biopolitike, dakle u odnosima s moći i vlasti. Mi koristimo

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made from a different point of view, an invitation to face their own identity. It is important to blend all the driving forces of

identity, as well as an entire series of other notions of what we call “general noun”, into a coherent unit. For Flatform portrait is a “general noun”. These components within a unit are not mutu­ally exclusive; they continue to work as independent realities, but they also contribute to the general image within a notion. Besides, the “general noun” is not limited only to the social component. It is worth noting that our work is not just a simple reflection of a somewhat trendy discourse of socially involved art; we believe the ideas of social and political involvement are not that simple.

Could you elaborate this view in more detail?Let us explain how we perceive art: we believe art cannot vie with power, with Sovereignty, because this battle cannot be won. Art cannot be involved; it can only work via guerrilla actions. Here we wish to follow up on philosopher Gilles Deleuze, who spoke about philosophy, but the idea applies to art as well. We believe art cannot raise its voice against something, but should inste­ad speak “for”, it should advocate. Also, in order to understand our poetics,another important term is “state of exception” which has been defined by Giorgio Agamben, but in a biopolitical con­text, i.e. referring to power and government. We are using that concept starting from the fact that we are in a “state of excep­tion”, but we want to extend it to new cognitions, turn it into so­mething affirmative. In English there is a double meaning expre­ssion seeing through. We see through a window, but we also see through things, see them differently. A very simple explanation: we use the “state of exception” in order to attain the position to see things otherwise. Relations between the possible and the im­possible change according to these postulates.

Za vrijeme istraživanja

During the inspections

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taj koncept polazeći od činjenice da smo u „izvanred-nom stanju“ ali želimo ga produžiti do novih spoznaja, dakle pretvoriti u nešto pozitivno. U engleskom postoji fraza seeing trough, koja sadrži dvostruko značenje. Vi-dimo kroz prozor, no vidimo i kroz stvari, vidimo druga-čije. Vrlo jednostavno objašnjeno: koristimo „izvanred-no stanje“ da bismo došli u poziciju da vidimo drugači-je. Odnosi mogućeg i nemogućeg se, sukladno tim po-stavkama, mijenjaju.

Pojam „stvarnost“ u vašem radu zauzima istaknu-to mjesto. Uz taj pojam važne su vam i ideje fran-cuskog filozofa mlađeg naraštaja Quentina Mei-llassouxa. Možete li pobliže obijasniti veze „stvar-nosti“ i Flatforma? „Na pitanje zašto stvari jesu onakve kakve jesu a ne dru gačije, odgovor - bez razloga - jest autentičan i dobar odgovor.“ – misao je Quentina Meillassouxa. Riječ je o pristajanju na ideju da uvi-jek postoji način za drugačije pristupanje problemima. Zanima-ju nas njegova razmišljanja unutar škole spekulativnog realizma jer nam njegova djela poput After finitude omogućuju da otvori-mo pitanja o mogućnostima, o stvarima koje se mogu dogodi-ti. Ljepota ovakvog razmišljanja leži u ideji da ne razmišljamo o onome što jesmo nego o onome što možemo biti!

Što je sa stvarnošću?Stvarnost je naša polazišna točka ali istodobno i cilj. Između po-četne i krajnje stvarnosti sve je otvoreno, sve je moguće. Između te dvije točke nalaze se mogućnosti. Želimo stvoriti odmak, dis-tancu između subjekta i onoga što mu je poznato, želimo stvori-ti učinak očuđenja. Zahvaljujući toj mogućnosti, moguće je vidje-ti stvari drugačije. Ono što je poznato, ostavlja vas u zoni ugode te ne možete percipirati stvari drugačije. Bavimo se stvarnošću

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The notion of “reality” in your work takes a very prominent place. Aside from this notion, you care about the ideas of a younger French philosopher

Quentin Meillassoux. Could you elaborate the relationship between “reality” and Flatform?“To a question why things are as they are and not otherwise, the answer – for no reason – is authentic and good answer,” this is what Quentin Meillassoux said. It is about embracing the idea that there is always a way to approach problems differently. We are interested in his ideas within the school of speculative reali­sm because works like After finitude enable us to raise the que­stion of possibilities, of things that can happen. The beauty of such thinking is in the idea that we do not think about how thin­gs are but about how they may be!

What about reality?Reality is our point of departure, but also our goal. Between the initial and the final reality everything is open, everything is possi­ble. Between these two points there are possibilities. We want to create detachment, a distance between the subject and what is familiar to him, we want to create the effect of estrangement. Thanks to this possibility, things can be seen otherwise. We work with reality, but at the same time we are aware of different in­terpretations of that notion. We modify reality by always using real images in our videos; reality needs to be reality and we tre­at it with utmost strictness. At the same time, we believe rea­lity contains both the possible and the impossible, i.e. one does not exclude the other.

I am interested to know if in your activities the final result is equally important as the process of attaining it. Our creative processes are specific because they are not based on gathering ideas but on analysing familiar units to get to new

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Za vrijeme obilaženja pojedinih kvartova u Novom Zagrebu s Flatcaseom

Tha Flatcase tour around Novi Zagreb neighbourhoods

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ones. The process is important because it serves to get to the re­sult. Through it, we prove nothing. It is a certain act of resistan­ce, an act of creating challenges and possibilities. Therefore, it is not about the issue of communication, but about the act of re­sistance. Such an approach is important because it removes us from Duchamp’s idea of routine and his statement that if there is no solution there is no problem. We wish to distance ourselves from that idea, fundamental but primarily in a linguistic way, that has been circulating for nearly eighty years because we consider it incorrect, in a broader realistic sense. We claim that problems exist and that reality does not comply with Duchamp’s idea. In short, we can forget the process once it brought us to the goal.

What goal would that be? The goal we have been talking about all along: seeing things otherwise!

Translation from Italian: Ružica Babić

Za vrijeme snimanja nekih od stanov nika Novog Zagreba u studiju Muzeja suvremene umjetnosti

Filming some of Novi Zagreb inhabitants at Museum’s studio

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ali istodobno smo svjesni različitih interpretacija tog pojma. Mi modi-ficiramo stvarnost koristeći u vi-deo zapisima uvijek stvarne snim-ke, stvarnost mora biti stvarnost i odnosimo se prema njoj vrlo strogo. Istodobno, smatramo da stvarnost sadrži i moguće i nemoguće, odno-sno da jedno ne isključuje drugo.

Zanima me je li u vašim aktiv-nostima konačni rezultat jed-nako važan kao i proces dola-ženja do njega?

Naši su procesi proizvodnje djela specifični jer se ne temelje na prikupljanju ideja nego na raščlambi poznatih cjelina kako bi došli do nove. Proces je bitan utoliko što nam služi da dođe-mo do rezultata. Mi procesom ništa ne dokazujemo. On postaje svojevrstan čin otpora, čin stvaranja izazova i mogućnosti. Da-kle, nije riječ o problemu komunikacije nego o činu otpora. Ta-kav pristup nam je važan jer se njime odvajamo od Duchampo-ve ideje ustaljenosti i njegove izjave da ukoliko nema rješenja nema ni problema. Želimo se ograditi od te ideje koja je u opti-caju osamdesetak godina jer je smatramo neistinitom. Mi tvrdi-mo da problemi postoje te da se stvarnost ne priklanja Ducham-povoj izjavi. Ukratko, proces možemo zanemariti nakon što nas je doveo do cilja.

Kojeg točno cilja? Cilja o kojem cijelo vrijeme razgovaramo: Vidjeti stvari drugačije!

Prijevod s talijanskog: Ružica Babić

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Anyway, it looks like a rainforest. What’s great about it is that you can totally step away from the world, hide from everything, because of all that shrubs and trees around you. You feel like you’re in the city centre, but you can’t hear the cars or trams. What’s fascinating is that this lake is big and wide and great for swimming... We also had vines, but we broke them, but no worries, we still jump in the water like they’re there. You know, you swing and you plunge... We even used to, and we still do, take out fre-shwater crabs. I’d recommend everyone to grab one, ‘cause they’re really yummy. Flora and fauna are Amazonian, green and huge. Don’t know, you just come in, alone with your thoughts and find peace. And all these birds, rabbits, pheasants... it’s like a real nature re-serve out there. It’s magnificent. If you need to survive summer in Zagreb, it’s the best place ‘cause it’s in the shade. You have 40 degrees outside and there it’s 20. It’s so cool to run, swim over, dive through, fish a bit, set traps for rabbits and pheasants. OK, we didn’t really catch pheasants ‘cause you can be fined, but we caught rabbits and they’re super delicio-us. I gotta tell you, that cross-path is also gre-at... We don’t go there that often but when we do we take all kinds of bikes ‘cause it’s really cool. We rollerblade and ride and then you run into a hill only a motorcycle can cross. So you tip over and fall down... It was like five or six times I ended up in the nettles... at least. Like everyone else, I gotta tell you this is practi-cally a small paradise of ours and I hope it’ll stay like this for our children.

T.L. (one of the inhabitans/story-tellers)

U svakom slučaju izgleda kao prašuma. Super je to kaj se možeš odvojiti od svije ta, maknuti od okoline, zbog svog tog žbunja i drveća kaj te okružuje. Imaš osjećaj sa si u centru grada al’ ne čuješ buku auti, tramvaja. Fascinantno je to kaj je jezero veliko i široko i odlično za pli-vanje. …Imali smo i lijane ali smo ih potrgali no nema veze i dalje skačemo u vodu ko da su tu. Zaljuljaš se, ono i baciš se unutra… Čak smo i vadili, i dan danas ih vadimo, riječne rakove. Preporučio bih svakom tko dođe da maz ne jednog jer su fakat fini. Flora i fauna su ama-zonske, zelene i velike. Ne znam, uđeš nutra, sam sa sobom i nađeš svoj mir. I sve te ptice, zečevi, fazani… baš je ono pravi pravcati rezer-vat. Prekrasan je. I u Zagrebu preživjeti ljeto, na njemu je definitivno najbolje jer je jedan ve-liki hlad. Vani je 40 stupnjeva, a na njemu 20. Uživancija je zaletiti se, preplivati, proroniti, malo hvatati ribe, malo postavljati zamke za zečeve i fazane. Dobro, fazane baš nismo lovi-li jer je kazna ali dobro… zečeve jesmo i fini su. Moram priznati da čak i ona kros-staza je od-lična… Mi ne idemo često na nju ali kad odemo, idemo sa svim mogućim biciklima jer to bude dobro. Rolamo se, vozimo se i onda naletiš na brdo koje može samo motor proći. Prevrneš se i srušiš… bio sam pet, šet puta u koprivama… barem. Kao i svi drugi, moram priznati da je ovo praktično naš mali raj i nadamo se da će ostati takav i za našu djecu.

T.L. (jedan od stanovnika/pripovjedača)

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Kadrovi iz sinkroniziranih videa koji tvore instalaciju(str. 14 ­ 15)

Still frames from synchronised installation videos (p. 14-15)

Fotografija instalacije u Muzeju suvremene umjetnosti, Zagreb(detalj)

Still photograph of the installation at the Museum of Contemporary Art, Zagreb (detail)

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FLATFORM has been founded in 2006 and is based in Milan and Berlin. Works by Flatform have been shown in many exhi­bitions in museums and institutions including, among others, Hirshhorn Museum in Washington DC, Centre Pompidou in Paris, Wexner Center for the Arts in Columbus; Garage Center for Contemporary Culture in Moscow; Haus der Kulturen der Welt in Berlin; Museu da imagen e do som in Sao Paulo; Centre de Cultura Contemporània de Barcelona (CCCB). Videoworks by Flatform have been featured in several film festivals all over the world such as Nouveau Cinema Montreal; LOOP Festival Barcelona; Melbourne Film Festival; IFF Rotterdam; Venice Intl. Film Festival; Rio de Janeiro Intl. Short Film Festival, Kurzfilmtage in Oberhausen.

FLATFORM je osnovan 2006. a djeluje u Milanu i Berlinu. Radovi Flatforma predstavljeni su kroz brojne izložbe u muzejima i izlagačkim institucijama poput Hirshhorn Muzeja u Washingtonu, Centra Pompidou u Parizu, Wexner Centra za umjet-nost u Columbusu, Garaži - Centru za suvremenu kulturu u Moskvi, Kući svjetskih kultura u Berli nu, Muzeju slike i zvuka u Sao Paulu, Centru za suvre-menu kulturu u Barceloni (CCCB). Njihovi video rado-vi predstavljeni su na neko-liko međunarodnih filmskih festivala poput Nouveau Ci -nema u Montrealu, LO OP Fe stival u Barceloni, Mel-bo u rne Film Festivalu, IFF u Rotterdamu, venecijan-skom Filmskom festivalu, Međunarodnom festivalu kratkog filma u Riu de Ja-neirou, Danima kratkog fil-ma u Oberhausenu.

Fotografija instalacije u Muzeju suvremene umjetnosti, Zagreb, (detalj))

Still photograph of the installation at the Museum of Contemporary Art, Zagreb, (detail)

IZDAVAČ PUBLISHER Muzej suvremene umjetnosti Museum of Contemporary art, Avenija Du brov nik 17, 10010 Zagreb; Cro-atia; tel: +385 1 605 27 00; E-mail: msu@msu.hr; www.msu.hr ZA IZDAVAČA FOR THE PUBLISHER Snježana Pintarić UREDNICA KATALOGA CATALOGUE EDITOR Leila Topić KUSTOSICA IZLOŽBE EXHIBITION CURATOR Leila Topić TEKST TEXT Leila Topić PRI­JEVOD: NA ENGLESKI JEZIK TRANSLATION INTO ENGLISH Ivana Ostojčić S TALIJANSKOG JEZIKA TRANSLATION FROM ITALIAN Ružica Babić, Valnea Martucci LEKTURA COPY EDITING Jadran-ka Pintarić AUTORI POSTAVA DISPLAY AUTHORS Leila Topić, Flat-form POSTAV DISPLAY Tehnička služba MSU-a/ MSU Technical Department KOORDINACIJA PRODUKCIJE COORDINATION OF THE PRODUCTION Ana Mihalić, Valnea Martucci FOTOGRAFIJE PHO-TOGRAPHS Ana Mihalić GRAFIČKO OBLIKOVANJE GRAPHIC DESIGN artmashine (Zubić/Jukić) TISAK PRINT Kvik Zagreb NA KLADA PRINT RUN 300 kom

Izložba je realizirana uz potporu Gradskog ureda za obrazovanje, kulturu i šport Grada Zagreba The exhibition was organised with the generous support by the City of Zagreb Office for Education, Culture and Sport

ZAHVALE ACKNOWLEDGMENTS Stanovnicima Novog Zagreba,

Ružici Babić, Antoniu Guidi, Valnei Martucci, Mireli Ram ljak

Purgar, Radmili Ivi Janković, Snježani Pintarić, Mirjani Mihelj,

Elii Skazlić, Kristini Bonjeković Stojković i Vladimiru Tatomiru

VIDEO RADOVI OVE IZLOŽBE NIKADA NE BI BILI REALIZIRANI

BEZ TEMELJNOG DOPRINOSA EXHIBITION VIDEOS WOULD NE VER

HAVE BEEN MADE WITHOUT THE GENEROUS CONTRIBUTION OF Sa-

rah Dombre, Veronika Dergić, Stjepan Florijan, Josip Jagatić,

Matej Jurčić, Lea Kralj Ja ger, Damir Krajač, Vladan Kršić, Tomi-

slav Lukačić, Ozren Manojlović, Nikola Marinac, Mario, Konan

Og njen, Juraj Luka Omazić, Sanja Omazić, Goran Pavelić, Tomi-

slav Perica, Bojana Sošić, Obitelj Sarajlić, Tomi slav Šmider, Bo-

jan Vujaković, Željka Vujaković

THINGS OTHERWISE

23 April – 6 May 2013

Museum of Contemporary Art

STVARI DRUGAČIJE23. 04. ­ 6. 05. 2013.

Muzej Suvremene umjetnosti

Kadar iz filma prikazan u Flatcaseu

Still frame from the video screened via the Flatcase

sponzor sponsor

Museum of Contemporary Art