Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

Sign OutProfile

Jun 13th '12 by Michael Nelson @ 2:50pm 47 Comments Tweet 47 Share 156

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania

Ben Gibbard - "Set Yourself On…

Peter Buck - "10 Million BC"

Dirty Projectors - "Dance For You"

Mount Eerie - "Pale Lights"…

Maybach Music Group - "Power…

Play The 'Gum Mix | More Songs »

Radiohead Stage

Collapse Kills Drum

Tech

Shut Up, Dude: This

Week’s Best And

Worst Comments

The 5 Best Videos Of

The Week

Dirty Projectors –

“Dance For You”

Come To Stereogum’s

Northside Show With

Twin Sister,…

Let’s Shortlist The

Indie Song Of The

Summer 2012

01 Let’s Shortlist The Indie Song OfThe Summer 2012

02 Billy Corgan Will “Piss OnFucking Radiohead”

03 Shut Up, Dude: This Week’s BestAnd Worst Comments

Follow:

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

It’s easy to rag on Billy Corgan for being a hypersensitive narcissist who says ridiculous things, but he’s beendoing that for two decades now. (The first time I cringed at a Corgan comment? In 1994, when he reportedly saidto Kim Thyail, after an uncomfortable interaction with the Soundgarden guitarist, “You hurt me deeply. You hurtme deeply in my heart.”)

But Corgan’s post-’90s music really shouldn’t be judged alongside that aspect of his persona. No, the essentialproblem with the latter-day Smashing Pumpkins records (starting with 2000′s Machina/The Machines of God) isthat they fall prey to what Rob Mitchum — in his review of the band’s 2007 album Zeitgeist — called “the ‘Zero’dimension.” As Mitchum (accurately) assessed it, Corgan had left behind his band’s softer side, to the music’sdetriment.

That was only a problem, of course, to the extent you didn’t enjoy songs from the “Zero” dimension … until thefirst couple EPs from the Pumpkins’ ambitious Teargarden By Kaleidyscope project emerged in 2010, whichsuggested not just a nadir for Corgan but popular music in the 21st century. Today, it’s easy to look at the quote-unquote Smashing Pumpkins and look away in disgust: There’s ol’ Charlie Brown (front, center) with a bunch ofdemographically diverse scrubs, at least two of whom probably never even saw the inside of a studio while themusic was being recorded.

He’s made such a mess of things that really, how do you even accurately catalog Corgan’s, um, catalog? Thenew Oceania is technically the band’s ninth studio LP, but that seems misleading: It leaves out 1994′s PiscesIscariot, a collection of early non-album tracks that is better than the majority of the music released in the ’90s,yet it includes Machina II/The Friends And Enemies Of Modern Music, which was never released to stores and isplainly an addendum to the more traditionally distributed Machina. And how to account for Teargarden, anongoing “album” of which Oceania is considered a segment? Furthermore, what about Corgan’s 2005 solo album,TheFutureEmbrace, which shares at least as much DNA with the Pumpkins as the band’s own fourth album,1998′s Adore, or the lone release from Corgan’s Zwan — 2003′s wildly underrated Mary Star Of The Sea — whichshares even more of that DNA?

In terms of its personnel, Oceania may be a “Smashing Pumpkins” album in name only (Corgan is obviously theonly original Pumpkin left in the patch), but from a musical perspective, it feels like it deserves that name. Thealbum opens with “Quasar,” and the guitar-bass-drums interplay with which the song begins recalls two otherPumpkins album openers: “I Am One” (from 1991′s Gish) and “Cherub Rock” (from 1993′s Siamese Dream). It’s a

04 Album Of The Week: UsherLooking 4 Myself

05 Watch Radiohead Debut “FullStop” In Chicago

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

Tweet 47 Share 156

far cry from those classics, of course, but it’s a good omen — an announcement that, maybe, Corgan has exitedthe “Zero” dimension. Like much of the best Smashing Pumpkins work, the album never settles on one sound,although it’s blatantly dreamier and less rat-in-a-cage raging than any other Pumpkins’ LP released thismillennium. The album’s entire second quarter — “Violet Rays,” “My Love Is Winter,” One Diamond, One Heart,”and “Pinwheels” — is composed of ballads, but their tones and instrumentation vary (from acoustic guitars toAdore-esque synths). The title track is a proggy marathon that tries to squeeze about half of Melon Collie into itsnine minutes. And the album closes on three ferocious guitar-heavy anthems that veer in and out of the “Zero”dimension without getting stuck there. All along, new drummer Mike Byrne serves as a more-than-passablestand-in for departed skinsman (and Corgan’s only real collaborator) Jimmy Chamberlin. The album’s immediatehighlight is “The Celestials,” a sweeping, swelling, quiet-loud-quiet ballad that kind of makes me feel like I’mflying; it’s easily the catchiest song Corgan has written since “1979.” (If radio and MTV still existed, they mighteven play the thing.)

It’s typical to overreact when a once-great artist — previously believed to be deep into his dotage — hits thatsweet spot again, but I don’t think I’m being hyperbolic when I say that Oceania is Corgan’s best album sinceMary Star Of The Sea, and the best Smashing Pumpkins album since … Melon Collie? (Adore apologists will takeexception to this.) He’ll never again reach the heights of those first three albums — who will? — but it’s good tohear, at least, he’s climbing.

Oceania is released 6/19 via EMI. Stream it now.

Tags: Billy Corgan, The Smashing Pumpkins

You Might Also Like

Watch Billy Corgan

Debut “Rite Of Spring”

On Fan Cruise

Billy Corgan Will “Piss

On Fucking

Radiohead”

Billy Corgan

Launching Pro-

Wrestling Reality

Show

Progress Report: Billy

Corgan

School Of Seven Bells - "The Night" Video Nguzunguzu - "Delirium"

Comments (47)

Page

The requested UR filtering policy. F your system adm

Time: Mon Jun 18 0

+11Shaun Kardinal | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

i liked it and then i didn’t know how to feel about liking it. O_O

+11Cerebus | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Feel good about liking it. There are plenty of polarizing, frustrating figures out theremaking and releasing good music. Very few of them have a past as great as the firstthree (of four, since I do count Pisces Iscariot) SP albums in their back pocket. Zeitgeistwasn’t TERRIBLE, it just wasn’t great. Billy has always had it in him to do great stuffagain. Lets hope he continues down that road.

+10topknot | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

This is a great record.

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

+3Andrew Schneider | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

You used 417 words before describing anything about the actual music on this album…jussayin

+24micahrophone | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

you used a word counter and left a snarky comment…jussayin

-3Andrew Schneider | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

I should have, I’m bored at work and actually counted the words after I realized I’mfour paragraphs in and already familiar with their previous work and just clicked thearticle to see what the new album sounds like.

+3Caleb Cook | Posted on Jun 14th

Reply

This was my thoughts too.. When did we actually get a review and not a history lesson ofwhat the reviewer despises about corgan

+7lostinlogic | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Question is which will be the entrance songs for the wrestlers on his reality TV show…

+5Stephen Berry | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

It’ll probably be good! Unfortunately, too many people won’t give the album a chance, justbecause they don’t like what he said about Radiohead.

+5yoko_oh_no | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

I think Billy Corgan’s done more than enough to polarise music fans, this latest strawwon’t break any camel’s back.

+5Cerebus | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Although some of this is debatable, for the most part, I can’t really bring myself to disagreewith it. It’s a solid, if far too short (SP’s and Billy’s past is a long and convoluted adventure)explanation of the then and now with a fair review of the new material included for goodmeasure.

However, there is one assumption you’re making here that I do want to address. From whathas been reported and discussed by people who have witnessed it (including the bandthemselves), all four members of the current SP did actually play on this album. Billy mayhave told them what to play, but they did actually play the parts themselves.

Also, as a random aside – not really relating to this review; Jeff is a pretty great guitar playerand in a live setting Billy actually gives him a lot of freedom. I saw the old SP live a lot, andI’ve seen the new SP (with Jeff, anyway) a handful of times now. It’s very clear that Jeff isoccasionally leading the direction of the “jams”. Billy will actually look at the guy and payattention to what he’s doing, something I rarely saw him do with James.

+6Luke Worle | Posted on Jun 13th

Boy…my favorite band of all time for sure. Well, Adore was and is vastly underrated and in

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

Reply

my opinion offers more of a heartfelt glimpse into Billy’s music and soul then Gish, and I wasalso a fan of machina 1 ( and its superior machina 2) even though Machina 1 took seriouscritical drubbing ( and should have been heavily editied), but whats left to say? Zwan’s debutwas a solid, good album, if not spectacular. TheFutureEmbrace solo album by Corgan hadmoments of cool and moments of bah for sure…leading up to Zeitgiest in which thingsturned the dividing corner. That record had a few very good tracks but included some duds.Its easily the weakest pumpkins record. The whole Teargarden fiasco ( yes fiasco) is that diehard fans like myself were open to the idea of 44 great songs in slow succession andinstead were left reeling from dissapointment as like piecemeal the songs came one by one,each more dissapointing and bland then the last. Tough pumpkins pill to swallow. Infairness, I love Billy Corgan; I love his music, his rich emotional way of looking at the world (and i disagree with the writer about the so called cringeworthy comment towards Kim; Billy’sextremely hypersensitive and said comment was not cringeworthy though possibly drunken atad) is going to polarize people. I think Adore was his real first commercial failure and criticalmisunderstanding. Except the songs, mostly, were all knockouts. The good thing withOceania is that there are a few knockouts. The first 3 are really good, if not great, and almosthalf of the record gets back to solid territory. I wish the rest of it filled the gaps up a bit andbrought that old delicious Pumpkins darkness to the proceedings with some fury, some morepassion, some more personalized lyrics and idealism, but that Billy hasn’t materialized sinceAdore and we will always have those records. Thankfully, this album is in no way adissapointment. my hope is that its merely a warm-up to something bigger, brighter andbetter and in league with the adventure of The Great Pumpkin’s highest creative aspirationand potential. Glimpses here if not jackpot yet. But it makes Teargarden less bitter in mymouth and the next record ( Please Billy release a sequel to Oceania and not peicemeal…your true loyal fans who still love you like myself want a record not a tease of songs) highlyanticipated…the first since 2000, at least for myself.

0Andrew Schneider | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

michael_?

0Jerald Hall | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

its a good point. The reveiwer talks about what a dickhead Corgan is for 5/6ths of the articlethen finally gives the album a little credit for being good… which it definately is.

+2Michael_ | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Two things I can’t agree with: This is SP’s best album since Mellon Collie and that their lastgood song was “1979″ (Their last good song was in fact “That’s the Way My Love Is” off ofZeitgeist, and before that, “Try Try Try” and “Stand Inside Your Love” off Machina weregreat as well.)

While I definitely believe Corgan is showing healthier signs here as a songwriter, this albumto me played a bit too inflated in length and ideas, and often sounding repetitive. Overall,Smashing Pumpkins really doesn’t have an identity these days. It’s, as mentioned, a mixtureof all of Corgan’s ideas, Pumpkins or not. I say this as someone who actually ownseverything including ZWAN and Zeitgeist, went to see them on that album’s tour (although,Explosions In the Sky opening was kind of a huge bonus to do so) alongside that terribleanniversary tour from a few years back. Corgan could probably find himself on the upperechelon of alt rock again if he actually wanted it. Oceania to me seems like he needs tomake a buck off an album so he plays nice with his fans again, but it won’t surprise me if hegoes back to polarizing them with crazy meltdown after this is done and says he’ll neverrelease another formal album ever again or something.

+3Michael Roffman | Posted on Jun 13th

Two things I can’t agree with: This is SP’s best album since Mellon Collie and that theirlast good song was “1979″ (Their last good song was in fact “That’s the Way My Love Is”off of Zeitgeist, and before that, “Try Try Try” and “Stand Inside Your Love” off Machinawere great as well.)>>>

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

Reply

Yeah, that’s where the review lost me. Also, “The Celestials” has one of the corniest lyricI’ve heard Corgan utter, and is hardly catchy.

+1Michael Nelson | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Michael Roffman,

I replied to Michael_’s post below, but to address one of your points: Yes, his lyricsare corny as hell, but I’ve always found that to be the case with his lyrics, so I didn’tmention it here. FWIW I didn’t notice “The Celestials” to be overly corny (by BC’sstandards, at least) but I didn’t look at lyric sheet, either. I stand by my assessment ofthe song’s catchiness!

+7Michael_ | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Wait, can we get a round of applause for a guest appearance from Consequence ofSound Editor & Chief Michael Roffman, who just made his first post here onStereogum? This is kind of like the moment on WCW Nitro when Scott Hallinterrupted the broadcast and everyone still thought he was with the then-WWF. Arewe in the midst of some sort of nWo-like invasion here on Stereogum?

Jokes aside, welcome and if CoS is ever still in need of writers and you’re willing tolook past that time we had a bit of a miscommunication, I’m open to ideas.

+2Rob Casper | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

you all need to upvote this comment

0mr. mayonaise | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Try Try Try and Stand Inside Your Love are great (though the latter is a bit cheesy for mytastes), but the standout on Machina is easily Age of Innocence. My favorite Pumpkinssong ever, and I say that as someone whose favorite album of all time is Siamese Dream(see username).

+3big in japanda bear hands say yeah yeah yeahs | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Mayonaise, Soma, Luna, Sweet Sweet, Cherub Rock – honestly, Siamese Dreamwas a fucking incredibly solid record.

Pisces Iscariot is also seriously underrated. Whir, Obscured, Blew Away…all greattunes.

+2Michael Nelson | Posted on Jun 13th

Michael_,

In my defense, I didn’t say the Pumpkins haven’t produced a good song since “1979″; Isaid “The Celestials” is the “catchiest” song the band has released since “1979″ — notexactly quantifiable, but I stand by it! There are numerous songs on Machina andZeitgeist that I love (all of which are quite catchy, in fact), but “The Celestials” is catchierstill.

Is this not the Pumpkins’ best since Mellon Collie? Maybe I’m being too generous. But Ilook back, and as I see it, it’s clearly better than Zeitgeist and Machina II, and IN MYOPINION better than Adore (which I admit in the review may not be a popular opinion,but I really don’t like Adore). So for me, it’s Machina vs. Oceania … maybe not a slamdunk, but I think Oceania wins.

I agree with all your points regarding the Pumpkins’ lack of identity and Corgan’spersonality issues, which is maybe why I used so many words up top trying to untanglethose things (before getting to the music).

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

Reply

0Michael_ | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Understood — I guess catchiness differs in the eyes of the beholder. The songs Imentioned are more over-produced / glossier tracks in comparison to “The Celestials,”which may be why that track didn’t strike me to be as purely melodic as “1979″ and theothers are. As for ranking the Pumpkins catalog, it’s pretty much a crap shoot afterMellon Collie with where you want to place them.

+2Elvis vs. Shark | Posted on Jun 14th

Reply

Too many Michaels up in here.

+1Michael Nelson | Posted on Jun 15th

Reply

This is always the case.

+7mickrandom26 | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

“Corgan is obviously the only original Pumpkin left in the patch.” Cute.

0oblivion | Posted on Jun 14th

Reply

and whoooaa mama is he SMASHED

-2Danny Devereauxx | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

was surprised to see people give a shit about this album 0__o

+235th shields | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

yeah, except happily surprised. its not just lana del rey and odd future around here!

-5Charlie Doherty | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

+1starlando | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

I agree dude that Machina 1 and Machina 2 have some of their best song. It’s too badonly die hard Pumpkins fans like us seem to know this ( and not let Corgan as a personpersuade our verdict of his tunes). I would rate Oceania the best since Machina. Corganthe person gets vilified while if a currently high praise circle or pitchfork friendly band likeRadiohead/Thom Yorke were to be polarizing, there would prob be praise. Even musicalpraise. The King of Limbs was not a great record but for Radiohead it will never sink orswim popular critical opinion. Shame that it can’t be fair and balance that way for

pumpkins i love Radiohead, but you know, expressing my opinion. Pumpkins loveforevah!

0Charlie Doherty | Posted on Jun 13th

Sorry to be so hard on you Michael but dammit, Corgan and his music (and his current

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

Reply

bandmates) deserve more accuracy and respect here at Stereogum than you’ve been giving itrecently and over the years. And I’m a longtime reader (at least 8 years running.)

Speaking of respect, I respectfully disagree on Oceania being the best album since MCIS. It isthe best since Adore.

+2Paul Sundeen | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Adore is easily as underrated as Mary Star.

0starlando | Posted on Jun 14th

Reply

indeed dude

+2Michael Nelson | Posted on Jun 14th

Reply

Charlie,

My point was: The last decade — post-initial breakup — has not been kind to BillyCorgan. I loved Zwan but that band’s breakup was as acrimonious as any I canremember. I liked Zeitgeist but it wasn’t exactly an unqualified success. With Teargarden,it seemed he had totally lost the plot, and for many fans, the new Smashing Pumpkinswere a million miles removed from the old band — even though the old band wasbasically Billy, Jimmy and a couple props. Without Jimmy, it started to look like Billy andthree randos.

I say this not to disparage the musicians, but to illustrate public perception. When manypeople look at the Pumpkins (or Zwan, for that matter), it’s not a band; it’s Billy, a femalebass player, an Asian guitar player, and a white male drummer. The demographicspecificity of that equation makes it appear, at least, that Billy assembles lineups basedas much on looks as ability (not saying he does this, but it’s definitely a theme). It’s alsoworth noting that, aside from Billy, the entire lineup has been turned over pretty regularly:

James –> JeffD’Arcy –> Melissa –> Ginger Reyes –> Nicole FiorentinoJimmy –> Joey Waronker/Matt Cameron/Kenny Aranoff –> Jimmy –> Mike Byrne

This breakdown doesn’t take into account Mary Star Of The Sea or TheFutureEmbrace,both of which — artistically speaking — could have been released as The SmashingPumpkins without much uproar (and have entirely disparate lineups, save for JC). Sodoes anybody besides Billy really matter? I honestly have no idea. Are the new guyscontributing more in the studio? If so, excellent! The results are terrific. But to the portionof the fanbase that has drifted since Zeitgeist, the band behind Billy has no real identity.(Again, I say this not to disparage their work! I really like the new album, so whateverthey are doing is working.)

+3Charlie Doherty | Posted on Jun 14th

If that’s the case (that you aren’t trying to disparage the non-Corgan Pumpkins), nexttime don’t call them “scrubs” and do a better job making clear you aren’t questioningthe merits of them being in the band (that you’re just pointing out public perceptionissues). By the way, in that list, you forgot (the late) Mark Tulin (ex-Electric Prunes)as an SP bass player and somewhat significant Corgan collaborator in 2009-2010during the early Teargarden sessions – he even played live with them on RSD inApril 2010, and his very death influenced the making of Oceania, as Corgan saidrecently.

And I disagree with you on how people looked at Zwan. That was a great lineup ofalternative and indie stars, Chavez’s Matt Sweeney, Paz Lenchantin of A PerfectCircle and David Pajo (from a million projects, most notably the influential Slint)joining Billy and Jimmy (one of the best drummers of our generation).

Tell me something, Michael. Why is it that it’s okay for Robert Smith to havemusicians in The Cure come and go and it not be an issue, but somehow whenCorgan does it, it’s a bad thing and makes the Pumpkins, less credible as the

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

Reply

Pumpkins somehow? Or when Dave Grohl does everything in the studio for the FooFighters early on, why didn’t people question the contributions of the rest of the band(like Pat Smear) or see them as being a bunch of props or hanger-ons in a bandfeaturing the ex-Nirvana drummer?

I get it. Billy is a jerk. But somewhere along the way he got this wrong reputation ofbeing a control freak (and not letting other people contribute much). The truth is,James and D’Arcy sucked at recording (at least for the first two SP records), and soButch Vig looked at Billy, and the budget and said he might as well do all the guitarsand bass parts himself. So that’s not his fault.. MCIS was truly the only real full bandeffort.

At some point, people need to get a clue that SP is and always has been aboutCorgan (just like The Shins have always been about James Mercer, The Who’salways been about Daltrey and Townshend, etc.) and stop saying that SP isn’t thesame without James and D’Arcy (and now Jimmy). I miss Chamberlin dearly but thiscurrent lineup is the best and most talented they’ve ever had – Corgan’s even statedthat Jeff is a technically better guitar player than he is, which you could never sayabout Iha or Sweeney.

By the way, Nicole (ex-Veruca Salt), was a veteran Billy found in CA after one of herbands opened for SP at a tribute show a few years ago. The only reason she (andMark before her) even became Pumpkins is because Ginger became a mother andhad that as a priority (which you can totally understand). And Mike was just afantastic find after a bunch of auditions (especially for his young age). The kid is alsoa good singer and keyboardist too, so no, looks had nothing to do with his or anyother band member’s hiring. Auditions and connections with other musicians in LosAngeles (where Corgan spent a lot of time after helping out Courtney Love – whoBilly took Melissa away from 12 years ago while Courtney was doing nothingmusically).

I could go on, but one thing is clear: the music media can do something about publicperception of the Pumpkins with regard to band members’ contributions. All I can sayis for people writing about them and the making of past works and current ones likeOceania is to do your homework. Study the interviews (or if you’re like me, interviewCorgan himself like I did late last year), which there are a ton of nowadays. Even goon Nicole’s Facebook page and you’ll see a lot of entries about her time spentrecording Pumpkins songs over the past year or two. Corgan and company talkopenly about the recording process more than ever – two years ago there was evena 7-hour webcast of the band members individually recording parts to future SPsongs like “Lonely Is The Name” – and will continue to I’m sure. You just have to paymore attention to it.

0Cerebus | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

I’m definitely one of these so-called “die hard” Smashing Pumpkins fans. As far as I know Iown everything they’ve ever released that made it to a piece of vinyl (yes, everything – youcan ask, but I really mean everything). And I’ve seen them live far more times than would beconsidered healthy (that’s largely because of the Fillmore runs, though). Unfortunately, I thinkAdore is terrible. It sounds like a different band hired Billy to sing for them. I do agree thatevery other album has some good-to-great songs, even if they aren’t great front to back.

-2the_ricards | Posted on Jun 14th

Reply

cerebus fights for pumpkins and DMB. cerebus fights for 1995

-1Cerebus | Posted on Jun 14th

Errr. Strange you would only notice me in those two threads. Could it be because youalso hang out in 1995? Hmmmm?

Actually, these days, I mostly listen to electronic music, free jazz/improvised musicand a good bit of classical (I play the cello, amongst other things). I listen to newlyreleased music on a weekly, often daily, basis. I go to the record store at least once a

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

Reply

week (because doing such a thing in the Bay Area is still fun).

It’s just coincidence that Stereogum has recently had two articles about bands I reallylove who were big in the 90s. And I would say that their best albums were actually in1993 and 1996. Regardless, the point of my taking the time to write what I think ofthem, a point you seem to be missing, is that I believe they are still good NOW.

+2overtheneptune | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

Maybe I’m just stoned, but I’m really enjoying this album.

0overtheneptune | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

“Pale Horse” is terrific.

+4Rob Casper | Posted on Jun 13th

Reply

as a longtime pumpkins fan, i’m inherently biased, but wow, i was surprised how good someof these songs actually are. zeitgeist leaves plenty of room for improvement, but seriously,this is actually impressive on some scale. some small scale.

and really, do we need to apologize for adore? it’s a great record

0duga | Posted on Jun 14th

Reply

Agreed about Adore. It’s not “guitars in your face” Pumpkins but it still feels very…Pumpkiny. I think a lot of people have a hard time reconciling the lack of distortion.Although I do wish he took it more in the direction of “Eye” like he said he would.

On that note, I feel Machina is basically what Adore would have been if Jimmy wasaround. Personally, I love both albums, but for that reason i can also see why a lot ofpeople don’t like them.

0Rob Casper | Posted on Jun 14th

Reply

again, from my biased opinion, i’d have to say the pumpkins never released a badrecord/single from the classic lineup days, and i’d include adore to that as well. spapplies such an unapologetic and genuine gothic feel to every song, “dusty and pistolpete”? country-goth! “appels + oranjes”? robo-goth! “for martha”? prog-goth! and itsomehow all ends up feeling authentic. it shouldn’t. it’s a little hodge-podge andoverlong, but they brought something different to the table that might’ve weeded outtheir pop-loving 1979-era listeners but didn’t alienate their hardcore fans. i love thatrecord.

-1mr. mayonaise | Posted on Jun 14th

I think Adore has some good songs, mostly on its second half (Tale of Dusty and Pistol Pete,Behold the Night Mare, Blank Page), and a whoooole lotta filler. Machina has some reallygreat jams but suffers from poor production choices and conceptual nonsense.

I gave this a listen and was honestly super disappointed. A lot of the songs, especially in themiddle (One Diamond One Heart, Pinwheels) seriously sound like Coldplay. The bland, MOR“light rock meets pretty synth patches” sound just doesn’t do it for me. If you’re gonna rock,ROCK. If you’re gonna go dreamy, go dreamy. This half-assed inbetween thing just soundsgeneric, IMO. And some of the lyrics are really cringeworthy, even for Billy (One DiamondOne Heart is ATROCIOUS).

But, who knows. Maybe it’ll grow on me with more listens.

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

Reply

0Christopher Woodhead | Posted on Jun 17th

Reply

He should just rerelease the Zwan record as a S.P. record. Its the best thing he did that hardlyanyone heard.

0bassgeisha | Posted at 9:12am

Reply

Ugh well, nice critique I guess, but it makes me rather sick.

ZERO was a f*king epic tune that whether you like it or not, still has shirts in production*today*. Which I think its rather crazy considering it was released in 1995?? That’s nearly 20years later. So getting stuck in the “Zero Dimension” as you call it, I can’t exactly agree that isa bad thing. If everything they crank out sounds the same then sure, but I personally don’tbelieve this is the case, even with this album and I haven’t even heard it yet >.<

I personally LOVED Corgan's The Future Embrace, and in fact got my musical production

name from it. No, I'm not sharing it yet, sorry.

The Smashing Pumpkins will forever be in my heart as a strong, alternative rock band straightfrom the 90's that kicked a$$ not only because I have their albums & songs memorized butalso because —it showed me & other girls/women at the time how D'arcy Wretzky could setan example for all females to engage in massive bass bada$$ery!—- Even when she left &was replaced yadda yadda, having that female bassist was almost a Smashing Pumpkinsexpectation or look expected from the band.

To harp on Corgan because his music is changing is like punishing a teenager (oryounger/older, I suppose) for growing, learning, and being shaped by life's events.

Are you the same person you were 1 year ago? 5 years ago? 10-20 years ago? I'm going togeneralize and say OF COURSE NOT.So WHY do you expect the same lot of music from a band that has been through a lot ofchanges, been affected by the same world events, and their own personal events? You speakof the Zero Dimension. What if they were stuck in a Cherub Rock dimension? You'l beslapping them on the wrist for that too!!

This article sounds quite like a LOT of other opinions/websites where the author(s) is jaded orcynical about Corgan/The Pumpkin's past glory, and wants to see them achieve similar status.I believe this could very easily affect the way the album is perceived/heard.

Yet oh my god when it comes to (i'll use RADIOHEAD–simply because I do enjoy irony)…radiohead you are so far up their a$$es that you can't see straight and praise every singlestrum of their guitar or vocal that comes out of Thom Yorke's throat. Give me a break.

Michael Nelson, perhaps it is time to revert back to your childhood (yes, I'm going somewherewith this). Go play Operation or Jenga or some other childhood boardgame like Sorry. **Find away to view the world in a new light, in a new perspective,** instead of from your jadedStereogum article-writing-cynical opinionated being that youv'e engendered.

Then, maybe if you rewrote the article, listened with fresh, new ears and MAYBE tried toperceive what Corgan was after with the album, it may be a constructive critique that I enjoy,that maybe even Corgan would enjoy and might acctually have an effect on the band as isstands today. Is this not the essence of a critique? to get inside the heads of an artist with afresh, objective, constructive opinion? That's how I was taught in art school. And while this isa music website, I'm sure you can see the symbiotic relationship!.

This is very unfortunate because I am brand new to your site. Seeing such opinionatedjournalism is one thing — seeing something that has been rehashed and rehashed over andover again "ohh the pumpkins aren't as good as they were with Siamese Dream, etc"… it getsold before I even finish the article because I've heard it so many times before. Not to mentionit threatens my "new user" status. I don't know how many people or hits you acquire each andevery day, but it does make me wonder if/how/why you lose viewers and/or if you are evenremotely interested in keeping them. (can't help it, it's the marketing & advertising andpossibly the anthropologist specialist in me).

bassgiesha signing out.

Premature Evaluation: The Smashing Pumpkins Oceania - Stereogum

http://stereogum.com/1063892/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania/franchises/premature-evaluation/comment-page-1/#comment-7767121[6/18/2012 9:18:28 AM]

Logged in as bassgeisha. Log out Connect

Leave a Reply

About / Press / Terms & Conditions / Privacy Policy / Copyright Policy / BUZZMEDIA / Videogum

Stereogum is a member of BUZZMEDIA Music, a division of BUZZMEDIAAbout BUZZMEDIA | Advertise | Press | Contact | Privacy Policy | | Copyright