F R U I T G A R D E N E R

Something More About PersimmonsStory and photos by Duane Wieden

ecause it is rare indeed to come across any article dedicated to persimmons, especially

one that discusses them at any length, I very much enjoyed reading "Persimmons:

Orchard Sugar and Spice" in last year's July & August issue. However, even though it

is clear that the author of the article exercised a great deal of care in presenting information

about the persimmon, there were nevertheless certain items of note on which I felt com-

pelled to ofFer comment. My perspective on this unique and wonderful fruit comes from

having grown up on the University of Californiat South Coast Field Station, where I annu-

ally enjoyed the harvest of oriental persimmons.

I fell in love with persimmons as a child,

and to this day they remain my favorite fruit.

Incidentally, at the dme of this writing (July

2004. -Ed.) I have been researching this

subject for more than two years, and am just

about halfway done with a book I am writ-

ing on the oriental persimmon, DioEyros

hahi.lhave also surveyed the persimmon

collections (both USDA and UC Pomolory)

at the -Wolßkill Experimental Orchards in

\7inters, Calif, and I have my own oriental

persimmon collection of sorts.

Persimmons Could Be a Major Crop\Zith proper selection ofthe right cul-

tivars it is today possible to produce high-

qualiry persimmon crops over a continuous

three-month harvest period. Additionally, I

believe that the implementation of simple

changes by persimmon growers in Caliörnia

could change persimmons from a minor fruit

crop to a fruit crop of much higher dollar

yield, as has been done for fruit such as the

Chinese gooseberry (kiwi), and the alligator

pear (avocado). However, a detailed review

of rhese topics would constitute a separate

article at the least, and they will be covered

in depth when my book is published.

Differences Must be UnderstoodIt is imponant to note that when compar-

ing the two mqor Diogyros types that are

grown in America-D. uirginiana, the Ameri-

can persimmon, and D. hahi, the oriental

persimmos-there are critical differences be-

tween the fruiting habits of each persimmon

rype that need to be understood. I have pre-

sented a comparision bötween American and

oriental persimmons in the table on the facing

page. In summary, what you can see from

the information presented is that, if you have

Il

It!

the opportunity to do so, you might want to

grow some of the better oriental persimmon

cultivars that are available. Please note that the

terms PCA, PCNA and PVNA (used below)

are defined in the table.

Some recommended varieties of PCA,

or'toft-ripe," persimmons are Hachiya and

Saijo. Hachiya is commonly available and is

the commercial standard of soft-ripe persim-

mons in California. Saijo means 'the

very

best," and was at one time offered by L.E.

Cooke Company, though they no longer

produce it. Saijo is indeed the best soft-ripe

fruit I have tasted and, who knows, L.E.

Cooke might even resume production if

given cause through sufficient demand.I hesitate recommending PCNA" or

"firm-

ripe" (or'äpple"), persimmons because in my

opinion the best of these are not commercially

available at this time. kt me say howwer,

that the Jiro has been California's persim-

mon industry standard for firm-ripe fruit,

and out of the firm-ripe varieties available in

California today from reputable sources, it is

probably one of the best. Howeve! marketing

choices have been made by certain nurseries

and growing consortiums (which I do not

endorse), to narne all of their firm-ripe fruit

Fuyrr. This is a grave mistake and a gross error

because no nursery supplier in Caliörnia to

date has the true Fuy'u (Fuyrrgaki), and few if

any even know what they taste like. Although

some wholesale nursery suppliers such as

Orange County Nursery have renamed their

Jiro to Fuyrr this past year, dont be fooled: no

one has the Fuyu yet. If you buy a persimmonfruit called

'F.ty.t' in a farmers market envi-

ronment or in the store it will most probably

be Jiro, and might be Izu, or Hana Fuyu or

Imoto Fuyu or one of several other types of

firm-ripe persimmon fruit, but it will not be

the real Fury. This lumping together of firm-

ripe varieties into a single name is a regional(California) problem. In Japan, firm-ripe vari-

eties are kept distinct and separate-a Jiro is a

Jiro, a Fupr is a Fu1'u, and an Izu is an Izu. By

the way, there is no Jiro Fuyu, it is simplyJiro.

In reference to P\4r]A. or cinnamon-

class, persimmons one of the best of these

that I have tasted is the Ama-Hyakume.

The challenge with PVNA persimmons,

however, is that you have to plant a pol-

linator-i.e., an oriental persimmon with

a suffrcient number of male f1655665-16

adequately pol l inare your cinnamon per-

simmon. The only pollinator I know that is

capable of such pollination is called Choco-

late-and it is available from L.E. Cooke.

Be aware howeve! that the Chocolate per-

simmon is such an eicellent pollinator that

all of your oriental persimmons, regard-

less of rype, will either be fully or mostly

seeded. This trait is rypically considered

commercially undesirable in firm-ripe or

soft-ripe persimmons, though it is necessary

if you are growing cinnamon persimmons.

\7hile you could grow seedless cinnamon-

class persimmons and üeat them, in doing so

you would lose the flavor complexities that

set these wonderfi.rl persimmons apart in a

class by themselves. Although some other

cinnamon persimmons such as Maru and

Nishimura'Wase have sporadic male flow-

ers, those that do occasionally occur on these

varieties are neither profixe, virile or hardy

enough, nor do they occur in adequate abun-

dance to ensure the pollination of the fruit on

these trees. Nor will Fuyu (meaningJiro) noq

Imoto Fuyu nor any other oriental persim-

mon variety on the market today in California

other than Chocolate sufficiently pollinate

the Nishimura'Vase ("Coffee-Cake") and

thus ensure that you the consumer c:tn eat its

fruit fi.rlly pollinated and firm-ripe. Several

years ago I spoke at length with Ed Laivo of

Dave \Tilson Nursery about this matter, and

he emphatically recommended planting my

Nishimura \7ase near a Chocolate persim-

mon. The firm is aware of the problem, yet

after more than two years, it has not appropri-

ately changed its marketing labels. Neither has

it changed the advenising description on its

fruit reference guide or the company website.

All of these things should reflect the need for

planting a Chocolate persimmon as a pollina-

w *or " *BER & DECEMBER 2oot CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROIiü'ERS. INC.

F R U T T G A R D E I T I E R

Comparison ltem Diospyros kaki - Oriental Persimmon D. virginiana - American Persimmon

Pollination & fruitproduction

Fruit produced parthenocarpically, that is, without pollination. A single tree will have female flowers which wil I producefruit. These fruit will be unseeded unless they have been pollinated from a male flower. Male flowers are the exceptionin the oriental persimmon, not the norm. While pollination wil I change the characteristics of certain PVNA & PVApersimmons, pollination is not necessary for those or for any oriental persimmon to be produce fruit !

Fruit is borne only on a female tree. Pollinationis performed by a male tree which will bear nofruit.

Tree size Typically 1 5 to 20 feet. Size is dependant primarily on the rootstock used. Trees with either D kakl or D. iotus (Dateplum) rootstockseldomreachmuchovertwentyfeet inheightwhengrowninAmerica.Treesgrownon D.v i rg in ianarootstock can certainly exceed 30 feet, as can trees in an ideal spot that are over 50 years old. Some grafted trees inJaoan are over 600 vears old.

Typically 30 to 45 feet, even though as thereferenced persimmon article says, "...they canreach as high as 75 feet in thelr native foresthabitat. "

IMake no mistake about it folks, theseare big, hearty trees, and you have to have twoplanted (of the right sex) to get fruit I j

Major fruit types PCNA (pollination constant non-astringent): Firm{ipe, we called these apple persimmons when I was a kid, theseare mildly sweet with a smooth texture, but with enough of a crunch to resemble an apple. Examples - Jiro and Fuyu,PCA (pollination constant astringent): Your standard soft-ripe fruit, astringent/puckery until almost water-balloonsoft, then sweet like grandma's homemade apricot jam. Examples - Hachiya and 5aijo. I also lump PVA (pollinationvariation astringent) fruit into this category as well as these fruit are always astringent until soft and the only thingthat changes is the color inside if seeded (although technically, many consider it a separate category).PVNA (pollination variant non-astringent): Cinnamon persimmons. The most unusual and misunderstood variety.This fruit can be eaten firm-ripe like an apple only lf it has been sufficiently pollinated to be fully colored inslde.0therwise, it must either be eaten soft-ripe, or it must be treated to be edible. To examine fruit coloration, cut thefruit horizontally. Examine the fruit to see if it is clear orange or cinnamonJlecked throughout. Cut out the clearorange part and throw it away - it will be puckery. Eat the portion 0f the fruit that is cinnamon-flecked throughout.This wil l be uniquely flavored (some will say "spicy

rich "

or "spicy sweet") and seeded. To be commerclally viable,fruit of this class is treated with either ethyl alcohol or C0z prior to consumption to ensure non-astringency.

Soft-ripe only. Fruit of theAmerican persimmonis astringent until it is completely softened.However, I have encountered some of thesefruits that never seem to lose their astringency,no matter how soft they become.

Fruit size and shape Fruit size varies to slightly in excess of 4 inches. lt would take roughly 1 2 to 1 6 of the largest American persimmons toequal one ofthe largest D. kaki fruit.The fruit comes in many shapes from nearly round, to acorn, to round or squareand flattened.The fruit also is typically seedless unless a pollinator is planted nearby.

Fruit size varies up to 2 inches maximum. Fruilis typically flattened, so actual measurementof largest fruit is typically

'l inch vertically by 2

inches horizontally, and is fully seeded.

Commercialapplications

Fresh fruit for commercial production. Fresh fruit for U-pick marketing and for farmers markets, especially in Asianpopulation marketplaces. Homeowners consume the fruit fresh, frozen or dried; and they use sliced or pulped fruit in avarietv of dishes and in cookinq. This is a recoonized minor fruit croo.

Pulp commercially produced. Homeownersconsume fresh, and use in cooking. Used exten-sively as a forage crop for livestock and poultry.

USDA zonehardiness

The trees do fine in areas as cold as zone 7 (our zone) - not zone 'l 4 as published in the referenced persimmion

article (page I 4, July/August 2004 issue). Attempts to grow fruit in the warmer regions of zone 6 have been partlysuccessful, but are typically limited to selected astringent varieties (PCA).The oriental persimmon will grow in thewarmer one-third of North America. The American persimmon has iust over twice that ranqe.

A quote from the article being referenced: "Trees

survive as far north as USDA Zone 5, but only afew cultivars will ripen fruit in the short growingseason." TheAmerican persimmon is much morecold-hardythan is the oriental persimmon. ltsgreatly expanded range is frequently what makesitof interestto those who are unable, because oftheir location, to growthe oriental persimmon.

tor for Nishimura \(/ase so that it will have thebest chance ofsuccess.

I(now What You're Getting IntoYou, the consume! should know what you

are getting into with respect to this "Coffee-

Cake" persimmon. Realize that the Nishimura\üZase is not, nor will it ever be, an ideal com-

panion tree for the Fu1'u, the Jiro or for any

other type of apple persimmon. Be aware of

this issue and ofyour expectations when buy-ing

"new kinds" of cinnamon persimmons. If

you buy a Nishimura\7ase (Coffee-Cake) andyou do not have Chocolate as a pollinator,expect to eat your fruit soft-ripe (or expect tohave to treat it to eat it). Ifyou get a Choco-Iate as a pollinator for your Nishimura'Wase,

expect all ofyour persimmon fruit on nearby

oriental persimmon varieties to be firlly seeded

(most with six to eight seeds each).

Remember, pollination in PVNA per-simmons can be a triclly thing and can bemarkedly affected by sudden changes in tem-

perature and humidiry, which will cause theinconstant male blossoms ofvarieties such asthe Nishimura \7ase to fall offwithin hours

(turn to page 14)

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CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROIüTERS. INC. NOVEMBER & DECEMBER TOOS f f i

F R U I T G A R D E N E R

FESTIVAL OF FRUIT (from page 13)

activities at a festival, I hope that these im-

pressions give you at least some favor of the

wonderful Festival of Fruit that was hosted

by the Northern California chapters of cntc,

and held iointlv with the Nernx annual

meeting. It w", w.ll worth the long trip.

I am already looking forward to next yeart

festival. It will be hosted by the San Luis

Obispo chapter, around the same time of the

year (early September) as this yeart festival. It

will feature The Healthful Grape, which will

be the featured fruit ofthe year. They are al-

ready planning, so get ready to be there. 0

Longtine member EmoryWalton is not only a rare fruitgrower like the rest of us; he is also the enthusiastic manager ofthe annual Fruit Shoot photo contest.

Tovotefor this article asthe bestin this issue, go to ht'tpJ/t4qlqylqy,9rfg,9yg1phpbb and select the Fruil Gardener forum. Posta message with the subject header shown as 37-6-03 or send apostcard tothe Development Fund Commiftee. ln eithet caseyourcomments are welcome.

ABOUT PERSIMMONS (from page 7)

of this change. That is why a pollinizer such

as the Chocolate persimmon, which sets an

abundance of extremely hearry male blos-

soms, is required for best results.

However, you should be aware that even

with the co-planting of a Chocolate persim-

mon tree as a pollinizer, some individuals re-

port a lack of pollination in their P\Ö{A fruit

periodicallyfrom season to season. Changes in

the natural environment such as late rains or

freezes, lack of pollinating insects (primarily

honeybees or bumblebees) or even too mild a

winter can affect the pollination of Cinnamon

persimmons for the worse. Let the buyer be-

ware! \7e can only hope that the misleading

marketing tactics of certain nursery wholesal-

ers will change voluntarily before class-action

lawsuits force them to change unwillingly.

Know Rootstock PerformanceOne additional item of note for oriental

persimmon tree buyers regards rootstock. The

rootstock typically used on oriental persim-

mons in California is either D. hahi or D.

htcr-the latter of which is qpically preferred

by nursery wholesalers because the seeds are

small, readily available, percentage of germi-

nation is high and they produce relatively uni-

form, vigorous seedlings whose root systems

have shorter taproots and more branching

laterals than an equivalent D. kabiseedling.

D. btus seedlings are also easier to transplant

from a nursery bed, i.e., when grown in the

ground, than either D. hahi or D. uirginiana.

The problem is that some nursery whole-

salers use D. brus seedlings to graft certain

PCNA (firm-ripe) persimmons onto. D. btus

has known incompatibiliry issues with variet-

ies such as Suruga, Izu, Fuyu and Matsumoto\Wase Fuyu. From time to dme I have pur-

chased oriental persimmon varieties recently

released, only to find that all of my varieties

end up dying in the first or second season. On

examination of the rootstock and in check-

ing with the nursery where I bought these, I

find that no oriental persimmon trees of that

variety survived at that nursery either-they

were grafted onto the wrong rootstock.

This initial assessment becomes absolutely

confirmed when suckers from the rootstock

come up and are identified x D. lotus. Among

nursery wholesalers this seems to happen most

often with purchases of Suruga from Orange

County Nursery. Find out what rootstockwas

used on anylzu, Suruga, Fu1.u (Fuyugaki) or

Matsumoto \7ase Fuy'u that you intend to

buy. I recommend not purchasing these vari-

eties from any nursery that has grafted them

onto an unlnown rootstock or a rootstock

other than D. haki.

Let the Buyer BewareEven if a new persimmon type comes

highly recommended in some book or mar-

keting blurb, make sure you acquire it from

a reputable source that stands behind their

product because, unfortunately in the case

of incompatible rootstocks, you may need a

guarantee. One way to prevent this is to have

the rootstock used for any oriental persim-

mon tree noted on the tree tag. If done accu-

rately and truthfirlly, this simple step would

help prevent some disappointing injustices

that you, the consumer of persimmon prod-

ucts, have to contend with from companies

that know better but do it any"way-evident-

ly just to make a buck at your expense.

Remarls on Last Year's ArticleHere are several other comments

prompted by the persimmon article that ap-peared in the July & August 2004 issue:

1. My sources in Japan tell me that TsuruNo Ko is a PCA (soft-ripe) fruit only. Itdoes not refer to the Chocolate persim-mon, whose name is incidentally anAmerican invention.

2. Ama-Hyakume, and Zenji Maru (notZengi Maru) are both excellent PVNA(cinnamon) persimmons. California

w *our*BER & DECEMBER 2oot CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GRO'VERS, INC

F R U I T G A R D E I U E R

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Maru does have possibilities, but all DaiDai Maru that I have sampled ro date(pollinated or not) have been quite bad.

3. Among the photos shown on page 14 ofthe referenced persimmon article-. Photo 1 appears not to be a Chocolatepersimmon. AJthough the angle of thefruit makes the photo hard to evaluate,the partial seeding of the fruit makesit clear that this fruit is not Chocolate.Displayed below is a correcr photo of aChocolate persimmon.

Chocolate is the most virile pollinatorI have ever seen and its fruit is alwaysfully seeded (8 seeds). I have never seen achocolate fruit that is only partly seeded.

Chocolate fruit from a marure rree canbe eaten hard-ripe or soft-ripe, but I preferto eat them when they have begun to soft-en. In this state they are rich and sweer likechocolate pudding. I dont really care for

them hard-ripe, and ifyour tree is young,they may even be astringent when hard.This was true for the first several years afterI planted my first Chocolate persimmontree. After the third year I noticed a scrubjay eatingmy Chocolate persimmons andthought, 'this

bird must be nurs, thosethings are astringent," but after trying one,I found that they were indeed edible.

Dont over-water a mature Chocolatepersimmon tree too close to harvest asthis practice will tend to make the fruitless sweet and favorful than it otherwise

would be.. Photo 3 is definitely not a Honan Red.Displayed below is a correct photo of aHonan Red. The dullness of the fruit isdue to its narural coaring or'bloom." Thefruit brightens up ro a beautiful deep redwhen this coating is cleaned offand itis ripe. However, the skin of the HonanRed is astringent, so beware. To eat a ripeHonan Red, pull the stem offand suck theinsides out, discarding the skin.. Looking at photo 5 one is unable to seethe shape of aZenji Maru. Judging by thepollination patrern I cant tell if this fiuitis aZr$i Maru. Displayed below is a cor-rect photo of rhe Trnji Maru from variousangles so readers can see the shape ofit.

. Fina-lly, on photo 4, Jiro is simplyJiro.There is noJiro Fuyu.

Recommended LiteratureFew persimmon references have been

published in English. Even fewer are worthowning. Two references I recommend forany persimmon enrhusiasr who can findthem are Persimmon Cuhure in New Zea-landby Hirotoshi Kitagawa and Paul G.Glucina, and Persimmons for EueryonebyEugene Griffith and Mary Griffith.

I hope these tips and comments will addclarity to areas of persimmon interest thatmay be misunderstood by some growers. 0

DuaneWieden is a persimmon lover who is currently writingmultiple books on the oriental persimmon; his research on thatfruit spans four years. He was among the expert presenters atthe2005 Festival of Fruit. Duane literally enjoysthefruits of his laborsfrom hts home orchard, and he sharesthem with others. Readerscan c0ntact Duane by e-mail at duane_wieden@yahoo.com.

To vote lor this article as the best in this issue, go to http://r+uw.cfg.org/phpbb and select the Fr uit Gardener forum. posta nessage with the subject header shown as 37-6-02 or send apostcad to the Development Fund Committee. ln either caseyoulconments are welcome.

CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GRO'W'ERS, NOVEMBER 6. DECEMBER 2OOs