refutation of fruchtenbaum

8/11/2019 Refutation of Fruchtenbaum

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%a(e E, 0ut Matthew -69 does use it for the first half.'

!he contet within the verses, 9#-9 reuire that the tribulation of verse -1 is the same tribulation of verse 9,and that be(ins at the mid%oint of the 7th week.

At Mat. -69, the /H translation leads to considerable confusion. It reads,

!hen the) shall deliver )ou u% to be afflicted. . .0ut the Greek word for, to be afflicted, is the noun, thli%sis, %lus the %re%osition, eis, and should be

rendered either, to tribulation or to a tribulation. 5It could also be rendered, to affliction or to an affliction as

lon( as the noun form is %reserved in the translation.8!he @A40, translates it %ro%erl) with the renderin(, to tribulation.

In the verses followin( v. 9, /esus e%lains the nature of this tribulation. At v. 1:, the word therefore, must

be taken in connection with the tribulation of v. 9. And then at v. -1, the word for, must be taken as an

am%lification of vs.1:#-. !hus, the whole section from v.9 throu(h -9 is referrin( to the same %eriod oftime.

In v. 9, it is called tribulation 5or a tribulation8. In v. -1, it is called (reat 5or a (reat8 tribulation. And in v.

-9, it is called, !3* tribulation of those da)s. And at Mark 1;A!I?@

Fruchtenbaum wrote on %a(e 96

!o claim, as Rosenthal does, that the first five seals are not the wrath of God but onl) the wrath of man is to

tr) to force his %osition on the tet. !he fact is that all seven seals are broken b) &hrist= the first five sealsare as much a %art of the Cthe wrath of the ;amb as are the last two. Furthermore, the Four 3orsemen of the

A%ocal)%se in the first four seal 2ud(ments are initiated b) the four livin( creatures= so these 2ud(ments not

onl) concern Cmans activit) under the controllin( influence of 4atan. !o claim that these seals are onl)describin( the wrath of men (oes contrar) to the contet, since all the seal 2ud(ments ori(inate in heaven. In

fact, the ver) dama(e that the) do is described in the ?ld !estament as resultin( from the wrath of God. For

eam%le, the seal 2ud(ments mention four thin(s6 death b) sword 5Rev. 67#E8= famine 56, E8, wild animals56E8= and %estilence and %la(ue 56E8. *Kekiel 16-1 states6 CFor thus saith the ;ord /ehovah6 3ow much

more when I send m) four sore 2ud(ments u%on /erusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the evil beasts,

and the %estilence, to cut off from it man and beastD

$hile all four thin(s could be said to be what man does to man, )et it is clearl) God who sends all four of


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these thin(s. !he wrath of man ma) be involved, but not to the eclusion of the wrath of God. !hat these

four thin(s all result from the wrath of God is clearl) stated in *Kekiel 1619.'

@othin( written in the above uote %roves that the seals are 2ud(ments from God.

*Kekiel 161-#-1 sim%l) indicates that God &A@ and does use certain ne(ative thin(s to 2ud(e errant

nations. It is not necessar), is it, that ever) time these items are mentioned to(ether, the) M>4! refer toGods wrathL

Fruchtenbaum uotes a %lethora of ?ld !estament %assa(es that mention sword, famine, wild animals and

%estilence, in connection with 2ud(ment and wrath from God, and claims on that basis that those thin(smentioned at Revelation must also be associated with Gods wrath and 2ud(ment.

3owever, while all these thin(s are certainl) "*RMI!!*B b) God, the) are not alwa)s BIR*&!; from

God.

@ot all famine is Gods wrath. Genesis 1-, -, 1#7, Acts 116-E@ot all %estilence is Gods wrath. "salm 916


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!here is (eneral a(reement amon( commentators as to

the inter%retation of the seals. !he first 56-8 is

(enerall) a(reed to re%resent the %eace movements onthe %art of men as the) seek to establish %eace on the

earth. It ma) be associated with the covenant made b)

the 0east to establish %eace on the earth.' 5!hin(s to&ome, %a(e 4*4 to ha%%en as an e%ression of 3is wrath.I identif) this individual as the world#ruler (one bad.' !hat is, after bein( killed and brou(ht back to life b)

4atan, he becomes the beast out of the sea,' who now o%%resses the world for - months # the second halfof the week. It is clear that durin( the first half of the week this %erson does @?! o%%ress the world, but

institutes (reat tribulation' AF!*R the mid%oint of the week 5Mat. -61:, -18.

$e learn that at around this same time, and necessaril) some time before the mid%oint of the week, 4atan iskicked out of heaven and (oes forth $I!3

GR*A! $RA!3 5Rev. 1-61-8, %ersecutin( the nation of Israel and all &hristians 5Rev. 1-61


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commentators understand this to refer to 1J of the

%o%ulation d)in(. !his does not make it Gods wrath. It sim%l) indicates the results of the beasts reli(ious

and economic %olic) which denies %eace and securit)' to those who do not have the mark of the beast.For the beast worshi%%ers there will be no affliction until after /esus returns at the Ba) of the ;ord. It is then

that those who afflict )ou' will be re%aid with affliction themselves 5- !hes. 168.

And of course, seal P:, which shows us mart)rs for !3* FAI!3 is absolutel) not connected with the wrath

of God.

@ow # if there were reasons to assi(n Gods wrath to the seals, I could a(ree. 0ut there are no reasons.

1. 4eals P1 and - when com%ared to(ether indicate that

seal P1 is a time of %eace # and not wrath from God.-. 4eal P: is @?! Gods wrath.


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intervention into human affairs. !he 2ud(ments of war,

famine, and earth, and the mart)rdom of the saints have

lar(el) ori(inated in human decision and in the evilheart of man. !he 2ud(ment described here, however,

ori(inates in God as the divine %unishment inflicted

u%on a blas%hemous world.' 5Revelation, %a(e 1! !?

!A* ";A&*.' 5em%hasis mine8

&oncernin( the cosmic si(ns mentioned at the th seal,

$alvoord writes6

!he resultin( im%ression u%on the unbelievin( world

is that the time of the 2ud(ment of God has come.'5Revelation, %a(e 14* of a su%%osed heavenl) ori(ination, that would reuire the consistent view that seal P: islikewise from 2ud(ment and wrath. And )et, the mart)rdom of believers is absolutel) not from divine

2ud(ment and wrath.

It should be ver) clear that there is a stark contrast between the 3>MA@ tri((ered events of the first : sealsand the th seal, which involves su%ernatural si(ns in the heavens and the arrival 5%resence8 of /esus, !he

;amb of God.

!3* !RI0>;A!I?@ &>! 43?R!

/esus tau(ht that the tribulation would be cut short as %er Matthew -6-- and Mark 1


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!he "re$rath view teaches that this cuttin( short' is an interru%tion of the beasts o%%ressive activit) so

that he does not destro) all %eo%le 5all flesh8 who re2ect beast worshi%, which would include the elect

5&hristians8. !he return of /esus cuts short or interru%ts the beasts abilit) to %ersecute the church and Israel,but does not end his rei(n. !his interru%tion occurs at an unknown da) or hour AF!*R the mid%oint of the

week, that is, B>RI@G the tribulation.

4ince the official rei(n of the beast is to be - months, it would be *+"*&!*B, based on Baniel 1-, that hiso%%ression would also last as lon(. 3owever, the return of /esus, at that >@*+"*&!*B da) or hour, %uts a

dam%er on the beasts abilit) to carr) out his %ersecution a(enda because the trum%et 2ud(ments will brin(

(reat hardshi% on him and his kin(dom. It thus, ends the intensit) of the %ersecution several months 43?R!of the e%ected' end= the end of the 7th week.

After the tribulation is interru%ted, the ;ord will be(in to 2ud(e the beast and his kin(dom 5the earth

dwellers8 with the trum%et and bowl 2ud(ments. 4ince the :th trum%et 2ud(ment lasts for : months, the

R*MAI@I@G time after the arrival of /esus at the th seal, M>4! be at least that lon(. 4ince the 2ud(mentsfrom the other trum%ets %robabl) take a bit of time, it is %robabl) safe to add at least an additional month.

!hus, the remainin( time is A! ;*A4! months until the 7th week ends. 3owever, it can be lon(er.

Fruchtenbaum writes concernin( the cuttin( short of the tribulation on %a(es 11#1-.

3owever, that is not the onl) o%tion, or even the best o%tion for the meanin( of Matthew -6-- and Mark1


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of the unsaved, but of the 4AH*B 5believers of the &hurch8.

Accordin(l), the information recorded for us in Matthew -, Mark 1R&3 that the beast has arrived and that the tribulation has now be(un. !hat is wh)

"aul writes to !3* &3>R&3 in - !hessalonians and describes the revealin( of the man of lawlessness inconnection with his session in the tem%le of God 5- !hes. -68. !here "aul tells us that this revealin( of the

man of lawlessness will come 0*F?R* the comin( of our ;ord /esus &hrist, and our (atherin( to(ether to

3im.'And so /esus tells the disci%les, A@B the church as an etension of the disci%les, even so )ou too, when

)ou see all these thin(s, reco(niKe that 3e is near= at the door.' $hen the tribulation be(ins, the church will

know that the time is near for /esus to arrive in the clouds of the sk) to (ather 3is elect to meet 3im in the

air. $e will know !3* 4*A4?@, but the da) and hour we will not know 5Mat. -6


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Fruchtenbaum continues6 $hat is bein( shortened is the %ersecution %eriod so as to allow the /ews to

survive. @ow comes a uestion6 3owlon( is this %eriod of /ewish %ersecution to lastL Is it onl) -1 monthsL ?nl) one uarter6 the third uarter of

the seven )earsL ?n the

contrar)= the %eriod of %ersecution of the /ews, which is the contet of Matthew -61:#-- and Mark 1! 43?R!. !he idea is that it will be cut shortof its *+"*&!*B duration b) the >@*+"*&!*B return of /esus in the clouds of the sk) with %ower and

(reat (lor).

5E8 If the o%%ression of the beast were allowed to continue for the duration of the remainin( 1-9 da)s,

!3*@, all believin(' flesh would be killed. Remember, the beast is seekin( to kill those connected' withGod, and not the rest of the %eo%le on the earth.

Fruchtenbaum contradicts these truths as he continues6 ?bviousl), the %eriod of /ewish %ersecution is notbein( shortened, and neither is the rest of the Great !ribulation bein( shortened since here, in the ?livet

Biscourse, the two are contem%oraneous. 4o, what is bein( shortenedL As Rosenthal himself noted in the

above uotation, the word can also have the meanin( of cut short. !hat is the meanin( here. In otherwords, the %eriod of /ewish %ersecution and the %eriod of (reat tribulation for the /ews will be suddenl)

cut short in the sense that it will not be allowed to continue even one da) be)ond its allotted time. God will

allow the Antichrist to %ersecute /ews for eactl) 1,- da)s, and not one second be)ond that. ?nce the last

second comes, it will be suddenl) cut short for the sake of /ewish survival.'


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!his is &R>&IA;. !he above ideas contradict Matthew -6!4 43?R! the tribulation, and that return is stated to occur at some

unknown da) and hour when the unbelievin( world is least e%ectin( it.

!3* BA ?F !3* ;?RB

!he duration of the Ba) of the ;ord is not relevant to the timin( of the ra%ture.$hat is relevant to that timin( is the I@&*"!I?@ of the Ba) of the ;ord.

Accordin(l), the discussion about whether the Ba) of the ;ord etends into the Millennial kin(dom or not

will not be addressed here.

GRAMMA!I&A; &?@4!R>&!I?@ F?R !3* BA ?F !3* ;?RB

?n %a(e 1:, Fruchtenbaum writes6 In his defense, however, Rosenthal does make a ma2or blunder, showin(

he is not alwa)s careful with the tet6 C!he %ro%hets . . . s%oke of the Ba) of the ;ord with the definite article

the) knew of onl) one such event. 5%. 1-98. As an)one in first#)ear 3ebrew class would know, never, inan) of the a%%earances of the term in the 3ebrew 0ible, is it used with the definite article. 3e is obviousl)

rel)in( onl) on an *n(lish translation. . . Rosenthal is (uilt) of a lin(uistic flaw.'

4ince Fruchtenbaum makes such a bi( issue of this, it should be noted that at /oel -6


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!hus, the intended meanin( and "R?"*R translation of the %hrase is !3* da) of the ;ord.

4o, it a%%ears that our reviewer himself is (uilt) of a lin(uistic flaw.

B*FI@I!I?@ of the Ba) of the ;ord

!he "re$rath ra%ture view teaches that the Ba) of the ;ord will be(in at a time after the mid%oint of the7th week of Baniel.

Fruchtenbaum writes on %a(e 1: that the Ba) of the ;ord . . . actuall) covers the whole seven#)ear %eriod.'3e then lists as %roof of that statement6 Isaiah -61-#--= 1


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has arrived, and who is able to standL'

!his of course is not the eact lan(ua(e that will be used when the event actuall) occurs, but this is 3?$ I!I4 "?R!RA*B in /ohns vision. !he) will not 4** him who sits on the throne' or the ;amb.' !hese are

2ust the ima(es in /ohns vision. 0ut the) will see it as /esus described it in Matthew -, !hen the) will see

the 4on of Man comin( in the clouds of the sk) with %ower and (reat (lor).'

Fruchtenbaum writes on %a(e 17, !he reviewer does not start the Ba) of the ;ord with the ra%ture, but with

the si(nin( of the seven#)ear covenant. @or does he %lace the Ba) of the ;ord be)ond the seven )ears.3owever, neither %osition actuall) 5a8effects %re#!ribulationism.'

!he Ba) of the ;ord does not start at the si(nin( of the covenant.And $3*@ the Ba) starts B?*4 affect ones view of the ra%ture. !he arrival of the Ba) of the ;ord is

directl) connected with the arrival of /esus and the ra%ture.

!IM* GA"

&oncernin( A@ si(nificant len(th of time between the ra%ture and the out%ourin( of Gods wrath,Fruchtenbaum writes on %a(e 1E6 Rosenthal insists that C!he 4cri%tures do not allow that kind of etended(a% between the Ra%ture and the Ba) of the ;ord 2ud(ment. !hat is nothin( but a do(matic statement which

has neither the force of lo(ic nor 4cri%ture to su%%ort it, to use Rosenthals own framed %hraseolo(). $here

in 4cri%ture does it sa) that the Ba) of the ;ord immediatel) follows the Ra%tureL @either of the two central%assa(es on the Ra%ture sa) that. @or does an) other.'

!he 4cri%ture does in fact show that the wrath of God comes u%on the earth dwellers within a ver) short

time after the ra%ture. !he %assa(e is 1 !hessalonians 61 # :6


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!he "re$rath view uses the two eam%les that /esus (ives of the worlds attitude %rior to the arrival of /esusand the arrival of the da) of the ;ord, to show the immediate connection between that arrival and the

%ourin( out of divine wrath. $hile Rosenthal and some other %re#wrathers insist that these eam%les

demand that Gods wrath come ?@ !3* H*R 4AM* BA that the arrival of /esus comes, I, and others do

not see it that wa). $hat the eam%les show is that it is @?$ !IM* for 2ud(ment= that is, the BA of2ud(ment has @?$ be(un. In actualit), there could be a few da)s before the 2ud(ment 5wrath8 is actuall)

%oured out, because the 1 thousand /ews need to be converted before the 2ud(ment starts 5Rev. 761#


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about 3is second comin(. I su((est that /esus ever had in mind onl) ?@* future comin(, and that the

teachin(s were directed to 3is disci%les as those who would carr) on the ministr) of ;i(ht after theresurrection ri(ht u% until the time that 3e would %h)sicall) descend from heaven at the Ba) of the ;ord. As

/esus tau(ht about this momentous event, 3e usuall) em%hasiKed the initial %oint#of#time arrival, but

sometimes focused on the deliverance of 3is %eo%le, and sometimes on the 2ud(ment to be meted out on the

world. At other times 3e would describe certain thin(s that would ha%%en subseuent to that arrival thatwould am%lif) the 2ud(ment as%ect of 3is arrival. Furthermore, /esus introduced us to a new factor that will

be associated with 3is arrival, and that is that the deliverance as%ect of 3is arrival will involve a %h)sicalremoval from the earth of those who have trusted in 3im 2ust %rior to %ourin( out 3is %h)sical 2ud(ments on

the world. In all cases, /esus had onl) ?@* arrival in view= ?@* second comin(, and in ever) case, it would

be a visible, (lorious and s%ectacular R*H*;A!I?@ of 3is "R*4*@&* that would be a source of (reatho%e for believers 53is elect8 and (reat fear and 2ud(ment for the unbeliever. It is to be 2ust as "aul described

at !itus -61


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durin( the first half of the 7th week. !he order is si(ns, arrival, ra%ture, 2ud(ment.

Fruchtenbaum states on %a(e 196 Rosenthals concludin( statement, CBeliverance of the ri(hteous

immediatel) %recedes 2ud(ment of the wicked,is strictl) a fallac). C!o %ostulate a %eriod of time between

ra%ture 5deliverance8 and wrath 52ud(ment8 is to contradict the 4cri%tures, is %atentl) untrue, and @?@* of

the %assa(es cited b) Rosenthal %rove this bold assertion.'

;et the reader be the 2ud(e.

!3* 4*A;4 ?F R*H*;A!I?@ 4I+ # a(ain

Fruchtenbaum states on %a(e -16 @ow, what about the first si sealsL Rosenthal insists that the) are not %art

of the wrath of God= nor are the) an) %art of the 2ud(ment of God, but onl) show what men do to men. It is

hard to esca%e the conclusion that Rosenthal must do all kinds of ee(etical ()mnastics to skirt around the

obvious fact that the seals are a divine 2ud(ment of God.'And on %a(e -R!. $here does the reader see ee(etical()mnastics' or %reconceived notionsL'

5:8 !he clear chronolo(ical flow of the tet shows us that the />BGM*@! of God which is "?R!*@B*Bb) the M>;!I";* cosmic disturbances of the th seal, occur A! the 7th seal.

!3* ARRIHA; ?F !3* BA ?F !3* ;?RB


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!he "re$rath %osition teaches that the Ba) of the ;ord will be(in immediatel) AF!*R some severe cosmic

disturbances that are summed u% b) si(ns in the sun, moon and stars 5!he 7th seal occurs after the th seal8.!here are other times B>RI@G the time frame of the Ba) of the ;ord that cosmic disturbances occur 5Rev.

E61-= 161E8, however, there is onl) ?@* !IM* when the) A;; occur to(ether. It is !3A! time that

announces the Ba) of the ;ord. !he "re$rath %osition understands that /oel -6


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eultin( ones, !o NeecuteO M) an(er.

A sound of tumult on the mountains, like that of man) %eo%leD A sound of the u%roar of kin(doms, of nations(athered to(etherD !he ;?RB of hosts is musterin( the arm) for battle. !he) are comin( from a far countr)

from the farthest horiKons, !he ;?RB and 3is instruments of indi(nation, to destro) the whole land.

5Herses


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that is because the F?&>4 is on the (reat arm) that will devastate the earth sometime AF!*R the Ba) of the

;ord arrives. 3owever, it does not @**B to be mentioned because that da)' has alread) been mentioned inIsaiah - and directl) associated with the ARRIHA; of the ;ord.

Herse -61-, for the ;ord of 3osts will have A BA.'

Herse -617, and the ;ord alone will be ealted in that da).'

Herses -619#-1!he) will (o into caves in the rock) cliffs and into holes in the (round, tr)in( to esca%e the dreadful

2ud(ment of the ;ord and his ro)al s%lendor, when he rises u% to terrif) the earth. At that time men willthrow their silver and (old idols, which the) made for themselves to worshi%, into the caves where rodents

and bats live, so the) themselves can (o into the crevices of the rock) cliffs and the o%enin(s under the

rock) overhan(s, tr)in( to esca%e the dreadful 2ud(ment of the ;ord and his ro)al s%lendor, when he rises u%to terrif) the earth.' 5@*08

I re%eat a(ain what Fruchtenbaum wrote6 For eam%le, the Isaiah 1


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disturbances on the earth, it is then that /esus will a%%ear in the clouds of the sk) with %ower and (reat (lor),

and ever) e)e will see 3im. !he earth dwellers will @?$ that it is now time for Gods wrath to be %ouredout. !hat wrath will come in man) sta(es 57 trum%ets and 7 bowls8, but @?! all at one time. 4ometimes in

the ?ld !estament, the 4IG@4 are mentioned, and then ?@* of the 2ud(ments is mentioned. It does not

mean that !3A! s%ecific 2ud(ment will now come immediatel). !his is what we see occurrin( in the

%ro%hecies of Isaiah 1< and /oel -#R0A@&*4

Fruchtenbaum writes on %a(e -:6 0ut there are other cosmic disturbances in connection with the fourth

trum%et 5E61-8, the fifth trum%et 5E61#118, the seventh bowl 51617#-18, etc. !here are several cosmicdisturbances throu(hout the end times, not 2ust one.'

!he ?!3*R cosmic disturbances do not even come close to bein( in the same cate(or) as the intensive

si(ns in the sun, moon and stars, and the earthl) disturbances all occurrin( at the same time.E6:, thunder, li(htenin(, earthuake.

E61-, a third of the sun, moon and stars are darkened.E61#11, a (reat star fell from heaven burnin( like a torch.96-, and the sun and the air were darkened b) the smoke of the %it.

161E#-1, li(htenin(, thunder, earthuake= hu(e hailstones.

es, disturbances in the heavens and on the earth &?@!I@>* in var)in( de(rees AF!*R the initial si(ns

that announce the arrival of the Ba) of the ;ord, but the) are entirel) different and on a lower ke) than the

initial ones.

Fruchtenbaum wrote on %a(e -6

For Rosenthals s)stem to stand, it is crucial to be(in the Ba) of the ;ord with Revelation E61 and the

seventh seal. 3owever, @?!3I@G in the tet states that that is when the Ba) of the ;ord be(ins. $ith ?ld!estament %redictions about the Ba) of the ;ord alread) bein( found in cha%ter si, it is best to be(in the

Ba) of the ;ord in 61.'

I have alread) %resented the contetual flow at Revelation #E.

!here is no wrath of God until Revelation E61.

It is announced at the th seal of Revelation .It is dela)ed at Revelation 7.

And it be(ins to be %oured out at Revelation E6:.

I cannot find an) ?ld !estament %redictions about the Ba) of the ;ord alread) found in cha%ter si,' so it is

uite illo(ical for me to %lace the be(innin( of the Ba) of the ;ord at Revelation 61. 0ut each one needs to

become full) %ersuaded in ones own mind, without an) emotional or %eer %ressure to swa) them.

!3* ARRIHA; ?F *;I/A3

As I have shown before, the 0ible associates the arrival of the Ba) of the ;ord, directl) with the arrival of

/esus in the clouds of the sk) and with the ra%ture of the church.

!he "re#tribulation view # or rather, I should sa), Fruchtenbaums view, for there is not total a(reement


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amon( the %re#tribbers in the same wa) that there is not total a(reement amon( the %re#wrathers.

Fruchtenbaums view does not see that close association. 3e has the Ba) of the ;ord occurrin( at thebe(innin( of the seven#)ears of Baniels 7th week, and the ra%ture occurrin( some unknown time before

that.

!he %ro%hec) at Malachi 6: tells us that *li2ah the %ro%het will come back 0*F?R* the Ba) of the ;ord.!here is disa(reement about whether *li2ah is one of the two witnesses of Revelation 11= Fruchtenbaum

thinks he is not. !hat of course, will color how one views the chronolo(), for as we know, the two witnesseswill testif) for 1- da)s and remain on the earth for an additional < S da)s after that 5Rev. 1161#118. 4I@&*

the Ba) of the ;ord 0*GI@4 when /esus arrives, the same imminenc)' for the ra%ture a%%lies also for the

Ba) of the ;ord. @o one knows the da) or the hour, but we can know the season.!here is also disa(reement as to whether the two witnesses testif) durin( the first half or the second half of

the week.

Fruchtenbaum wrote on %a(e -76!he startin(#%oint of the entire !ribulation, the seventieth week of Baniel, is the si(nin( of a covenant

between Israel and the Antichrist 5Ban. 96-78. !he Ra%ture comes sometime before that. In s%ite ofRosenthals insistence to the contrar), the Ra%ture does not have to come ri(ht before, or at the start, in "re#!ribulationism. !he Ra%ture is not the onl) thin( that has to come before the seven )ears. !here must be a

cosmic disturbance= there must be the return of *li2ah. 0ecause of the imminenc) of the Ra%ture, there is no

wa) of knowin( which comes first. 0elievin( that *li2ah will come before the seven )ears does not destro)imminenc),'

4o the issue here is 518 $hen does the Ba) of the ;ord startL And 5-8 3ow closel) does the 0ible connect

the ra%ture with the start of the Ba) of the ;ordL4ince it has been demonstrated that the Ba) of the ;ord occurs in direct and immediate association with the

return of /esus and the ra%ture, then the issue is resolved.

$hen /esus tau(ht the disci%les about 3is second comin(, 3e alwa)s had onl) ?@* second comin( in mind.At that second comin(, there will be deliverance for the saints and im%endin( 2ud(ment on the earth dwellers

who remain behind. 4ometimes, onl) the deliverance is in view, and sometimes onl) the 2ud(ment is in view.

Fruchtenbaum wrote on %a(e


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%hrase Cthe (reat da) of his wrath is come refers to an event which is about to occur is both substantial and

com%ellin(.'

Furctenbaum wrote on %a(e


22/49

!A* ";A&*.' 5em%hasis mine8

!3* $RA!3

?n %a(e


23/49

At the sith seal, /ohn is shown the res%onse of the unbelievers as the) are witness to the si(ns in the sun,

moon and stars, the massive earthuakes, and the %resence' of God= the arrival of /esus 5the ;amb8 in the

clouds of the sk) with %ower and (reat (lor). !heir res%onse is, for the (reat da) of their wrath has come=and who is able to standL'



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clouds, but remains alive until after the battle of Arma(eddon which is %ortra)ed for us at Revelation 19611#

-1. "aul is not (ivin( us a chronolo(ical factor but sim%l) a statement of fact, that it is the a%%earance of

3is comin(' that will *H*@!>A;; brin( about the destruction of the man of lawlessness.

!hese 4 !A>G3! in the ?livet Biscourse has not been %reserved

for us. 4ome think that Matthew - and ;uke -1 re%resent two different teachin( sessions. I dont a(ree with

this. $hat we have is ?@* BI4&?>R4*. !he content of that discourse is R*#!A>G3! to us throu(h thedisci%les and ;uke and Mark, but the %recise order of the content is not %reserved in the (os%els.

As this is studied, it is im%erative to %ro%erl) harmoniKe the three accounts that we have in the s)no%tic

(os%els. And as the) unfold it will be clear that the %ro(ress is viewed from


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see that )ou are not disturbed, for it must ha%%en,

but it is not )et the end.

5;k. -169 And when )ou hear of wars and disturbances,do not be alarmed= for these thin(s must ha%%en first,

but the end is not immediate.8

!hese wars and rumors have been occurrin( since


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0*?@B what /esus tau(ht about 7 AB and looks to the end#times when after the tribulation of those

da)s,' /esus will return.

Accordin(l), I view Fruchtenbaums attack at this %oint uite inaccurate.

!3* 4*H*@ *AR4



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!he %re#wrathers and man) of the %re#tribbers believe that the seals occur durin( the (reat tribulation. In that

contet, the mart)rs of the fifth seal are ?F &?>R4* directl) associated with death at the hands of thebeast.

Fruchtenbaum thinks that the (reat harlot' %ersecutes &hristians durin( the first half of the week. 3e wroteon %a(e 6 !he harlot is destro)ed in the middle of the seven )ears, and then the Antichrist rules for the

second half. !his also means that the world reli(ious rule of the harlot must be durin( the first half of the

seven )ears. . . @ot onl) does the Antichrist %ersecute believers 5durin( the second half8, this reli(iouss)stem of the harlot also %ersecutes the saints 51768= so this %ersecution must be durin( the first half, which

is when the fifth seal saints are mart)red.'

Revelation 176, And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of thewitnesses of /esus.'

It is commonl) believed that this verse is a summar) of the "A4! historical %ractices of the (reat harlot.

!hat is, %ast from the stand%oint of *@B !IM*4, but future from the time of /ohn. !hus, in describin( the@A!>R* of this evil reli(ious s)stem, /ohn is shown that it is res%onsible for the death of the saints A;;

!3R?>G3?>! its histor)= even, for that matter, embracin( its histor) %rior to /ohns vision.

$alvoord wrote on %a(es -E#9, !he woman is %ictured not onl) as the source of all evil in a%ostate

&hristendom but also as the one who is activel) en(a(ed in the %ersecution of the true saints. 3ere the%rimar) reference is not to ancient 0ab)lon but to 0ab)lon %er%etuated in a%ostate &hristendom es%eciall)

in its future form. !he histor) of the church has demonstrated that a%ostate &hristendom is uns%arin( in its

%ersecution of those who attem%t to maintain a true faith in /esus &hrist. $hat has been true in the %ast will

be brou(ht to its ultimate in this future time when the mart)rs will be be)ond number from ever) kindred,ton(ue, and nation.'

4o Fruchtenbaum is not onl) disa(reein( with Rosenthal, but also with $alvoord, and that basicall)indicates that much of what Fruchtenbaum o%%oses does not reall) undermine the "re#$rath %osition.

Rosenthal, and man) "re#$rathers use the silence' of Te%haniah 167 as a direct %arallel to the silence inRevelation E61. I m)self, do not believe there is a connection, and Fruchtenbaum ri(htl) criticiKes the

connection on %a(e 1. It is not (ermane to the validit) of "re#$rath.

&oncernin( the issue of which ?ld !estament %assa(es should be viewed as BA ?F !3* ;?RB tets,a(reement or disa(reement is not (ermane to ones ra%ture %osition so I wont address it.

- !3*44A;?@IA@4 167#E

?n %a(e -, Frutenbaum offers more ob2ections to the "re#$rath claim that there is no divine wrath in the

seals. Rosenthal claims that there is no wrath because an(els are not involved, but become involved after theth seal. Fruchtenbaum claims that the %resence or absence of an(els does not determine the %resence of

absence of divine wrath, and I a(ree with that. 3owever, then he makes a statement about - !hes. 167#E that

is a clear misstatement of the facts. 3e wrote6 !he citin( of II !hessalonians 167#E %roves nothin(, as it is

s%eakin( of the second comin( when 3e comes with 3is an(els.'


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!he %rimar) factor with the "re#$rath %osition is that there is onl) ?@* second comin( of &hrist, and itoccurs visibl) and with %ower and (reat (lor). !he descent of /esus to the earth, which is %ortra)ed at

Revelation 19 is an event that is subseuent to the arrival of /esus in the clouds of the sk).

@ow Fruchtenbaums statement that -!hes. 1 refers to the second advent is in fact correct. 3owever, 3*

thinks it refers to the descent of /esus at Revelation 19 in connection with the Arma(eddon cam%ai(n.In actualit), this %assa(e sees !3* &3>R&3 bein( (iven relief from affliction 5!he verb, thlibo in the

Greek tribulation8 $3*@ the ;ord /esus shall be revealed from heaven with 3is mi(ht) an(els inflamin( fire.'

!his %assa(e is 4? clear in the sim%le *n(lish that I do not understand how I could have missed it for theman) )ears that I was tau(ht and tau(ht the %re#trib ra%ture %osition.

$hat "aul is teachin( the believers in this letter is that there is a %ossibilit) that the affliction the) are (oin(

throu(h &?>;B escalate into the affliction about which /esus %ro%hesied in Matthew -= the (reat

tribulation. IF that ha%%ens, then !3* the believers in view A@B the a%ostle "aul as well, will be (ivenrelief= that is, the) will be delivered from that tribulation, at the visible arrival of /esus in the clouds of the

sk) with 3is an(els in flamin( fire. !his is the ra%ture of the church. And after that ra%ture, /esus willadministrate affliction 52ud(mentJwrath8 u%on the unbelievers who remain on the earth, who ultimatel) willbe cast into the lake of fire, awa) from the %resence of the ;ord and from the (lor) of 3is %ower.'

!3* 4*A;I@G ?F !3* 1,



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and was obviousl) im%ortant to the an(el, is the fact that 1, /ews must be sealed because the Ba) of

the ;ord wrath be(ins. ;et it first be noted that Rosenthal works on the assum%tion that the wrath of Godbe(ins onl) with the seventh seal, and that is based on the testimon) of unre(enerated men. A(ain, when it is

God 3imself who identifies wrath in Revelation, it is onl) of the bowl 2ud(ments contained in the seventh

trum%et.'

!here is a lot of re%etition in this review, and that reuires a similar de(ree of re%etition in re%l). I have

shown wh) it is that Gods 2ud(ment and wrath are the same thin( and wh) I! be(ins at the 7th seal. !heword $RA!3 does not need to be mentioned for it to be involved. !he mention of $RA!3 with the bowl

2ud(ments is clearl) stated to be the ;A4! because in them the wrath of God is com%leted' 5Rev. 1:618.

Frutenbaum6 4econdl), the uestion as to 2ust when are the 1, saved is brushed off b) Rosenthal as

not bein( a ke) issue. 0ut it is an im%ortant ke) issue. Related %assa(es on sealin( show that it is a work of

the 3ol) 4%irit which takes %lace at salvation 5II &orinthians 16--= *%hesians 161


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arrives in the clouds of the sk) with %ower and (reat (lor). !his is %ortra)ed at the th seal and tau(ht b)

/esus at Matthew -6-9#


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It does not sa) further harm' in cha%ter 7, but it is clearl) referrin( to somethin( @*$ and BIFF*R*@!,and somethin( that is in direct connection with the wrath that is antici%ated b) the unbelievers as a result of

the events of the th seal. I a(ree that the %resence of 3>R! before the 7th seal has nothin( to do with the

mention of the an(els. I a(ree that there will certainl) be 3>R! durin( the events of the seals, but such is

clearl) BIFF*R*@! from the hurt that is antici%ated at the th seal, dela)ed at cha%ter 7, and %oured out incha%ter E.

Fruchtenbaum6 !he 0ook of Revelation itself indicates that this is the best view, for the ver) same

instructions are (iven to the demons in 96758, which is the fifth trum%et= and b) then, the land, sea and trees

have been hurt b) the first four trum%ets. Althou(h this hurt is done b) demons, it is %art of the fifth trum%etand Rosenthal sees all the trum%ets as bein( %art of the wrath of God.'

I dont see how Revelation 96 I@BI&A!*4 that wrath and 2ud(ment will occur durin( the seals. !he) are

totall) unrelated. !he instruction (iven to the demons of Revelation 961#11 is not the same as what is foundat Revelation 7. At Revelation 7, the harm is u%on the environment, and is sim%l) dela)ed. At Revelation 9,

the harm is on %eo%le ?@;, because the nature of the 2ud(ment has nothin( to do with the environment.

Fruchtenbaum6 !hirdl), is it true that Cit is not the seals which hurt the earth, sea, and trees. . .L !he first,

second and fourth seals all mention war. Is it %ossible to have war without the earth bein( hurtL !he third

and fourth seals both mention famine. Is it %ossible to have a famine without food and all ve(etation, in fact,not bein( hurtL &ertainl) famine includes scarcit) of food, includin( sea#food. 4o, is not the sea hurtL $hat

about the sith sealL !his is the Ccosmic disturbance which Rosenthal himself ascribes to God. Is it %ossible

that these cosmic catacl)sms will not hurt the earth, sea and treesL !he (reat earthuake of 61- would

obviousl) affect both the land and the sea. !he cosmic convulsions in the sun, moon and stars 561-#1


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!3* GR*A! M>;!I!>B* I@ 3*AH*@

!he "re#$rath view believes that the (reat multitude that /ohn sees in heaven at Revelation 769ff re%resents

the ra%tured saints and is a different (rou% from the mart)rs mentioned at the :th seal. Althou(h we' still do

not have a(reement amon( ourselves as to the chronolo(), it is far more lo(ical to see the RA"!>R* event

%ortra)ed here than at Revelation 61, where /ohn is s%irituall)' trans%orted to heaven.Rosenthal and others see the sealin( of the 1, as occurrin( FIR4!, and then the ra%ture as occurrin(

4*&?@B. !here is division at this %oint. M) view is that there are !$? thin(s %ortra)ed in Revelationcha%ter 7 that result from the th seal= the return of /esus in the clouds of the sk) in %ower and (reat (lor).

At the th seal#return of /esus, the ra%ture occurs, which removes all believers from the earth and (athers

them to meet the ;ord in the air. !his is accom%lished b) the an(els 5the !3* of Matthew -6;! from

that return6 518 he is shown the conversion of 1, /ews ?@ !3* *AR!3, vs. 761#E, and 5-8 he is shownthe bod) of believers that were removed from the earth via the ra%ture, vs. 769ff. 3e is shown them

A;R*AB there because the) were removed from the earth A! the th seal return of /esus. !he ?RB*R of

the two results does not (ive the chronolo(), 2ust the focus that /ohn is shown in the vision. 4ince /ohn is notshown the ARRIHA; of the (reat multitude, but sim%l) the %resence and fact of their arrival, there is no

chronolo(ical issue here.

5!he reason that the) are identified as comin( out of the (reat tribulation is because it is the R*4&>* of the;IHI@G believers that is *M"3A4IT*B. !he bod) actuall) includes A;; 0*;I*H*R4. !his is the eact

same em%hasis that is seen at -!hes. 167, where the focus is on the ;IHI@G believers who are (iven relief

when /esus returns. 0ut of course, at that time, A;; 0*;I*H*R4 are ra%tured.8

Fruchtenbaum wrote on %a(es #96

For Rosenthal, this (reat multitude is the church= and if this could be substantiated, he has %roved his %oint.

In fact, within the 0ook of Revelation, this would be the onl) %lace where the &hurch is seen in heaven,

followin( Rosenthals short Great !ribulation, which these saints have Ccome out from. If it can be clearl)shown that these are &hurch saints, his %oint is lar(el) %roven. If not, then Rosenthal has lost his best

evidence.'

&ertainl) there is no "R??F without a direct statement. 3owever with a com%arison to -!hes. 167 we can

see the eact same scenario. !hat scenario is, as described above, the deliverance of ;IHI@G church a(ebelievers from tribulation A! the visible, %h)sical and (lorious return of /esus.


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Fruchtenbaum6 Rosenthal be(ins b) tr)in( to make a shar% distinction between the fifth seal saints and the

(reat multitude. 4uch a distinction is crucial to his view= thus, he ar(ues a(ainst the "re#!ribulationists who

view the (reat multitude as mart)rs, thou(h this factor alone is not crucial to "re#!ribulationism asRosenthal im%lies. Rosenthal %oints out that the tet does not actuall) sa) that the) are mart)rs, and this is

true.

0ut has Rosenthal %roven that the) are not mart)rsL And has he %roven that the fifth seal saints and the (reatmultitude are two totall) and eclusivel) different (rou%sL As Rosenthal claims6 C!his (reat multitude in

cha%ter 7 is clearl) a different (rou% from those described in cha%ter . 0ut are the) eclusivel) differentL

Are the contrasts reall) Csi(nificantL

Accordin( to Matthew -6-9#


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after the tribulation has be(un, so the) must make the saints of Revelation 769ff mart)rs.

"re#wrath has no %roblem because there will be additional mart)rs before the ;ord returns at the th seal to

fulfill the %romiseJ%ro%hec) of verse 611.For me, it does not matter if one views the :th seal mart)rs as FR?M the tribulation or, as I believe, those

who had died b) the time of /ohns vision. In either case, there will 4!I;; be more to be killed before the

;ord returns. It should be clear that the %romise to carr) out reven(e will be fulfilled throu(h the trum%etand bowl 2ud(ments, which will be initiated when the ;ord returns at the th seal. And then to have the lar(e

bod) of saints in heaven followin( the ;ords return is %erfectl) consistent with Matthew -6


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and God on the throne.

!he elders are also watchin( this M?HI* and make comments throu(hout.

!his is such a case. /ohn and the elders talk about the (reat multitude that is seen in the movie. $hether the- elders re%resent the church or not is another issue, but if the) do, that does not mean that the (reat

multitude I@ !3* HI4?@, cannot be the church.

Fruchtenbaum6 Rosenthal then insists several times that the (reat multitude is the &hurch ra%tured into

heaven. 3e sa)s the (reat multitude Csuddenl) a%%ears in heaven. 3owever, nothin( in the tets indicates a

Csudden a%%earance. !heir a%%earance in heaven is no more sudden than the fifth seal saints= and /ohn usesthe same wordin( for both6 C. . . I saw underneath the altar the souls of them that had been slain 5698= and6 C.

. . I saw, and behold, a (reat multitude. . . 57698. In each case, /ohn was merel) shown a (rou% of saints in

heaven without sa)in( an)thin( about their arrival, either suddenl) or (raduall).'

!he 4>BB*@@*44 of their a%%earance is not an issue. !he %assa(e establishes the FA&! of their %resence.

Rosenthal does not need to stress a sudden a%%earance,' because all the %assa(e tells us is that at one %oint

there is no one on the sea of (lass 5Rev. 68 and at another %oint there is a (reat multitude on the sea of

(lass. After /ohn is shown the 1, on the earth, he is then shown a scene in heaven where there is a(rou% of %eo%le all (athered on the sea of (lass before the throne of God. 3e does not see them arrivin(.

!he) are alread) there.!he contet indicates a &?M";*!* arrival and not a (radual one.

Fruchtenbaum6 Furthermore, 761 uses the Greek %resent tense, which carries the conce%t of Ccontinuall)comin( out of the Great !ribulation, and not suddenl) comin(= the) do not (o u% as one sin(le (rou% but as

the) are mart)red, one b) one. Rosenthal wants it to be sudden, because this is the Ra%ture for him. 0ut all

of his assertions in the above uotation that the (reat multitude is the &hurch are based on %resu%%osin( his

%osition to be alread) true.'

!he %resent tense is in the "AR!I&I";* form and does not indicate an) continuall) comin(' idea. It is

sim%l) B*4&RI0I@G them= statin( somethin( that characteriKes them. !hese are ones who come out.0asic Greek teaches us that the %artici%le finds its I@B ?F A&!I?@ from the contet.

!hat contet is established b) what the elder asks. 3e asks, from where have the) comeL' !he Greek form

here is an aorist indicative. It indicates a &?M";*!* arrival. 3e does not ask, from where are the)comin(L' !hats because what is seen is a &?M";*!*B FA&!. /ohn and the elder both see a com%lete

(rou%, standin(, clothed and holdin( branches.

Fruchtenbaum6 Another %oint is i(nored b) Rosenthal6 If this (reat multitude is the &hurch, then ofnecessit), this is onl) a %artial#Ra%ture # somethin( Rosenthal himself does not es%ouse. Herses 1


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multitudeL Accordin( to Rosenthal, the 1, /ews are sealed before the &hurch is ra%tured. ?bviousl), if

the sealin( takes %lace before the Ra%ture, it is not a sealin( of salvation= for if these were saved before the

Ra%ture, the) would also (o u% in the Ra%ture. 4o, Rosenthal is forced to (ive a stran(e inter%retation todivine sealin(, a divine sealin( # that is not connected with salvation. !his (oes contrar) to the wa) the 0ible

itself inter%rets divine sealin( which is the sealin( of salvation, (uaranteein( eternal securit) 5II &orinthians

16--= *%hesians 161


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should it be associated with the 7th trum%et 2ud(ment, for the) are totall) unrelated.

;ikewise, Rosenthals claim that the trum%et blown at /oel -61 is the same as the last trum%et is not accurate.

!here, the blowin( of the trum%et is done b) MA@, and is sim%l) a communication device to %ortra) theur(enc) of the situation and the seriousness of the im%endin( 2ud(ment that will come when the Ba) of the

;ord arrives.

!he trum%et of God is a call to assembl) not a warnin(. !he "re#wrath view does not de%end on thistrum%et blow in /oel - to establish the timin( of the ra%ture.

0ut Fruchtenbaums claims 5on %a(e :- and :


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have been fulfilled before the Ra%ture. $hat imminenc) teaches is that no %ro%hec) has to be fulfilled

before the Ra%ture can take %lace, rather than the idea that it cannot be. @or does a "re#!ribulationist need to

rescind the second %oint6 that the Ba) of the ;ord starts at the be(innin( of the seventieth week. !hat wouldonl) be necessar) if one acce%ts Rosenthals caricature of "re#!ribulationism as o%%osed to the view held

and tau(ht b) man) of us lon( before Rosenthals work.'

!his does not answer the su((ested inter%retation for -!hes. -61#. In fact, it totall) i(nores the claim. !he

issue is @?! whether an)thin( can or must %recede the ra%ture. !he issue is that accordin( to the %assa(e,

there is a 4"*&IFI& item that must %recede the Ba) of the ;ord and the ra%ture. !hat event is the revealin(of the man of lawlessness, which clearl) occurs at the mid%oint of the 7th week. !hat means that the

ra%ture must occur at some time AF!*R the mid%oint of the week.

I have %reviousl) shown that "aul euates < terms at -!hes. -61#= the comin( of the ;ord, our (atherin(

to(ether to 3im, and the Ba) of the ;ord. @ow Fruchtenbaum %reviousl) stated on %a(e 1:, 0ut, the factsare, the Ba) of the ;ord cannot be limited to onl) the last uarter, and actuall) covers the whole seven )ear

%eriod.' 0ut "aul wrote that the Ba) of the ;ord will not come until the man of lawlessness is revealed. It is

necessar) therefore to ad2ust ones understandin( of the ince%tion of the Ba) of the ;ord to an unknown time

AF!*R the mid%oint of Baniels 7th week. And since our (atherin( to(ether to 3im' will occur A! theda) of the ;ord, the ra%ture will occur at some unknown time after the mid%oint of the 7th week.

?@* ?R !$? &?MI@G4

!he dis%ute about whether /esus comes back once or twice is an ar(ument of semantics. 0oth "re#wrath and"re#trib have a B?>0;* arrival of /esus. !he) 2ust inter%ret the details differentl), and it wont %rove one

view over the other to continue the ar(ument here.

"re#wrath teaches that the ?FFI&IA; second comin( is alwa)s referrin( to the ?@* arrival in the clouds of

the sk) with %ower and (reat (lor)' 5Mat. -6


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sa)in( that the %arousia will overtake the unbeliever as a thief in the ni(ht, but that the Ba) of the ;ord will

overtake them like that. "aul dealt with the Ra%ture in 61


40/49

is b) the Ra%ture of 61BGM*@!4 from God. !he) are the actions of men= s%ecificall) the beast and his

o%%ressive rei(n, which is a(ainst believers and /ews and @?! a(ainst unbelievers, ece%t an) who mi(ht

refuse to take the mark of the beast 5and some do refuse8.!hese actions of men are directed a(ainst those who o%%ose the beast= not a(ainst those who acce%t the

beast. 4o the beast#worshi%%ers will be indifferent to the warnin( si(ns and for that reason, !he Ba) of the

;ord will come une%ectedl) u%on them. !he) are A4;**" and occu%ied with their eatin( and drinkin(

and (ivin( in marria(e' 2ust as in the da)s of @oah.

!he %eace and safet)' refers to the condition of those who have taken the mark of the beast. !hese will be

en2o)in( economic stabilit) 5bu)in( and sellin(, Rev. 1@&*4 the interru%tion of the beasts rei(n and the

tem%orar) benefits of o%eration mark, when the ;ord will be revealed from heaven with 3is mi(ht) an(elsin flamin( fire.'

And there is no war and convulsions in connection with the :th seal. *ven if the :th seal can re%resent

mart)rs at the hand of the beast, this is directed a(ainst believers and not the unbelievers who are en2o)in(the %eace and safet) of livin( under the umbrella of beast worshi% and the mark of the beast.

!3* 7!3 $** ?F BA@I*;


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Fruchtenbaum wrote on %a(e :96 In a cha%ter entitled Ce%t From !he 3our, Rosenthal states wh) %eo%le

of all Ra%ture#views have been wron( until he came alon(6

C. . . 3owever, because commentators have not (enerall) understood that there are three sections to theseventieth week#the be(innin( birth %an(s, the Great !ribulation, and the Ba) of the ;ord#the) have, in the

view of this author, made a fundamental error. 5%. -@0*;I*H*R4 would be en2o)in( a time of

@?RMA; ;IF* R?>!I@* and then be 4>R"RI4*B b) the sudden arrival of the 4on of Man, which would

then immediatel) brin( a time of 2ud(ment for them. !he da)s of @oah' and the da)s of lot' illustrationsshow this to be true. ?nce the 4on of Man arrives, the world will be I@ !3* !IM* ?F />BGM*@! and

there will be no esca%e.

"aul tau(ht the ver) same thin( at 1!hes. :6-#BGM*@!, and b) the descri%tion that is (iven to us b)them, it is a time that involves man) months of cosmolo(ical, (eolo(ical and warfare activities.

!he term BA ?F !3* ;?RB is used b) the a%ostles also, and is identified as a time that be(ins $3*@

the ;ord returns.

!he 0ook of the Revelation does not use the term, BA ?F !3* ;?RB.


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0ut it does (ive us a %oint of connection to the ?ld !estament 5/oel -6@3I@B*R*B %ersecution of /ews and &hristians 5Rev. 1-61"!*B at an unknown da) and hour b) the arrival of /esus. And 5-8 !he

time of 2ud(ment that will come u%on the unbelievers after the arrival of /esus # !he BA ?F !3* ;?RB.

!3* &3>R&3 I@ R*H*;A!I?@

Fruchtenbaum, %a(e 6 ?n the sub2ect of the seventieth week of Baniel, it should be noted that Baniel96-7 clearl) states that the Csevent) sevens or Cweeks concern Baniels %eo%le 5Israel8, and Baniels cit)

5/erusalem8. !hat alone clearl) indicates that the %ro(ram of the last seven )ears is Gods %ro(ram for Israel,

and not the &hurch. Rosenthal himself a(rees that the &hurch was not %resent in the first 9 weeks, and thereis no tetual statement or ee(etical basis for sa)in( that the &hurch is in an) %art#half, three#uarters or all #

of the last week.'

!here is a ver) sim%le answer. /ust because there is a s%ecific time allotment (iven to Israel does not meanthat the church &A@@?! be %resent. !hat is a theor) that is %laced u%on the 0ible and not tau(ht b) the

0ible. It is an assumed demand of dis%ensationalism, but not

reuired. !here is no inconsistenc) for God to >4* the church to hel% accom%lish 3is (oals for Israel. !hereis no com%romise to dis%ensations as God continues to use the evan(elistic a(ent of the church until the net

one is read) to function. 0ut more to the %oint, it 2ust ha%%ens to be the wa) 4cri%ture describes the events.

Fruchtenbaum6 !he (reatest e%osition of the seventieth week is Revelation #1E, which does not even

mention the &hurch once. !his is strikin(, as the &hurch is mentioned 19 times in the %recedin( cha%ters and

si times in the cha%ters followin(. !his is rather consistent throu(hout 4cri%ture, in that the &hurch is

mentioned in events that both %recede and follow the seven )ears of the !ribulation but is never mentionedas actuall) bein( in it.'

!he ar(ument that the church is not mentioned in Revelation #1E is first inaccurate, and second, not reall)an issue. In actualit), the $?RB, church occurs onl) 7 times in the book, and onl) in cha%ters - and


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clearl) %uts the &hurch in an) !ribulation contet.'

@ow to the blatant error, no %assa(e clearl) %uts the church in an) !ribulation contet.'I have shown that -!hes. 16#1 %laces the church in !3* tribulation contet and that -!hes. -61#< %laces

the church in !3* tribulation contet.

!RI0>;A!I?@ A@B BA ?F !3* ;?RB

Fruchtenbaum6 A com%arison of the 4cri%tures on the CGreat !ribulation and the CBa) of /ehovah showsthat these are not se%arate time#Kones, but all refer to the same thin(. !he ke) is to com%are the 4cri%tures

which describe a %eriod of time which is un%aralleled and worse than an) other time in human histor) # %ast

or future.'

!his statement is sim%l) not correct. !3* ;A@G>AG* I4 BIFF*R*@!.

Fruchtenbaum6 !he first %assa(e is /eremiah


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$ith (reat restraint I hold back from scathin( criticism.

!his %assa(e does @?! describe the Ba) of the ;ord. It describes !3* ARM that will invade IsraelB>RI@G the Ba) of the ;ord, which I euate with the th trum%et 2ud(ment but not all %re#wrathers a(ree

with that.

It is not the Ba) of the ;ord that is described as there has never been like it, nor will there be a(ain after itto the )ears of man) (enerations.' It is !3* ARM that is described that wa).

And in fact, there $I;; 0* A@?!3*R and (reater arm) AF!*R the )ears of man) (enerations.' !his

%erfectl) describes the vast horde that 4atan will or(aniKe at the end of the millennial kin(dom, and su((eststhat it will be eual if not (reater than this arm) that /oel describes, 5Revelation -67#98.

!he /oel %assa(e cannot be com%ared with the tribulation %assa(es since it is talkin( about somethin(

different. 4o there is no inconsistenc) in the "re#$rath view that makes distinction between !he Ba) of the;ord and the !ribulation.

!he fourth %assa(e is Matthew -6-1 6 . . . for then shall be (reat tribulation, such as hath not been from the

be(innin( of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.

Fruchtenbaum6 /esus is clearl) s%eakin( of the CGreat !ribulation, of which 3e sa)s, such as hath not beenfrom the be(innin( of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be. All four s%oke of a da), or %eriod which is

un%aralleled and uniue in all of time, both %ast and future. It is obvious that there can onl) be one worst and

un%aralleled time, and so all four men were s%eakin( of the same time. /oel called this time Cthe Ba) of/ehovah= /esus called it the CGreat !ribulation= /eremiah called it Cthe time of /acobs trouble= and the

3ebrew word for Ctrouble was translated b) the 4e%tua(int 5;++8 with the Greek word used b) the @ew

!estament for Ctribulation. Baniel called it Ca time of trouble= which is also translated b) the ;++ b) the

same Greek word.'

Is it reall) 4? ?0HI?>4 as he su((estsL It is not. !he tribulation' %assa(es are talkin( about the %eriod of

time known as the tribulation, which /esus tau(ht would be(in at the mid%oint of Baniels 7th week.!he /oel %assa(e is @?! talkin( about a %eriod of time, but an arm).

Fruchtenbaum6 Furthermore, Baniel, in contet, is detailin( further the seventieth week of Baniel,es%eciall) the second half 51-6:#78. All of this shows that the terms CBa) of the ;ord, CGreat !ribulation,

Ctime of trouble and Ctime of /acobs trouble, all refer to the same %eriod of time, and are not distinctive

time Kones in that s%an of time. $hat /oel sa)s about the Ba) of the ;ord, /esus sa)s about the Great

!ribulation. !here is no ee(etical 2ustification for distin(uishin( the Great !ribulation from the Ba) of/ehovah, and even less so to make the seventieth week of Baniel three different %eriods rather than the

obvious two %eriods found in the 4cri%tures.'

I have shown the error of this claim. $hat is uite clear and obvious, is that the "re#trib %osition makes

man) assum%tions and assertions that cannot be established b) com%arin( 4cri%ture with 4cri%ture.

Fruchtenbaum devotes about < %a(es 5-#8 to discussin( Revelation


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%assa(es, which clearl) %rove the validit) of the "re$rath view. 4o I think the best wa) to re%l) to this %art

of the review is to (ive the link to m) detailed discussion on the 0ible Fra(rances website, and move on to

other issues.htt%6JJwww.biblefra(rances.comJstudiesJrevR*B church.

!3* R*4>RR*&!I?@

Fruchtenbaum6 In this same cha%ter 5%%.-7#-E8, he tries to ar(ue his view of the Ra%ture from Baniel

1-61#


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Fruchtenbaum wrote on %a(es 9#76 ;ater in the cha%ter, Rosenthal returns to the issue of the seven

churches6

4ince the book of Revelation is a book of eschatolo() 5the doctrine of

last thin(s8, the letters to the seven churches must have %ro%hetic si(nificance. ?therwise, it would be out ofkee%in( with the rest of the book and its e%ressed %ur%ose to unveil the ;ord /esus &hrist in 3is comin(

(lor). 5%. -E8

!he seven churches of Revelation - and < were chosen from amon( man) churches which then eisted toreceive letters for two reasons. First, seven is the number of com%letion and %erfection, and, whereas in

Genesis Gods %ro(ram is be(innin( and widenin(, in Revelation it is narrowin( and movin( toward

consummation. 4econd, those seven churches %erfectl) illustrated the full#orbed stren(ths and weaknesses of

&hristendom durin( the seventieth week of Baniel. !his commonalit) allowed the seven churches to be thes%rin(board to (ive warnin( to &hristendom at the end of the a(e. . . . ?nl) this view (ives lo(ical

2ustification for the inclusion of letters to seven first#centur) churches in a book that is otherwise wholl)

%ro%hetic. 5%. -EE8

. . . !he entire contet of the seven churches is set in the arena of the seventieth week and the activit) of4atan and the Antichrist. ?f those who are trul) trium%hant, /ohn wrote, And the) overcame him b) the

blood of the ;amb, and b) the word of their testimon)= and the) loved not their lives unto the death 5Rev.1-6118= that is, the) were willin( to be mart)rs, if bein( an overcomer reuired it. 5%. -98.

*arlier Rosenthal accused "re#!ribulationists of not takin( the seven churches literall)= here, he a(ain does

the same thin( himself. !he seven literal churches are s%iritualiKed or alle(oriKed to re%resent Cthe full#orbed

stren(ths and weaknesses of &hristendom durin( the seventieth week of Baniel.'

Rosenthal and the "re$rath view do @?! alle(oriKe the 7 letters. @o where does he use that term. !he 7

letters have s%ecific A"";I&A!I?@ to the end#times (eneration of the church= the (eneration that will see

the return of the ;ord.

!he 7 churches of the Revelation should be viewed as havin( a double a%%lication.

!he first and %rimar) a%%lication is to 7 s%ecific churches that eist at the time of /ohns writin( andadeuatel) re%resent all conditions of !3* &3>R&3 in (eneral. 0ut throu(h divine %rovidence, three of

these churches 5!h)atira, 4ardis and "hiladel%hia8 demonstrate what the (eneral condition of the church will

be in the (eneration that sees the Ba) of the ;?RB.

!here are (eneral and s%ecific issues dealt with in each letter, but all, within the contet of the %ossiblereturn of /esus in their (eneration, based on the %romise of Revelation 167.

$hile the ra%ture itself is not imminent, the events which will %reci%itate the 7th week of Baniel can take

%lace at an) time in the histor) of the church. ?nce these events occur and the 7th week be(ins, it is that(eneration of the church which will see the ;ords return.

Accordin(l), the second a%%lication is to that (eneration of the church which will actuall) witness those end

time events.!he reason 7 churches were chosen to illustrate the (eneral condition of the church is because 7 is sufficient

5and those s%ecificall)8 to com%letel) illustrate what that condition of the church will be in the da)s

%recedin( the Ba) of the ;?RB.

In either case, it is im%erative to reco(niKe that the (eneral contet for viewin( these churches is in


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e%ectation of the return of the ;ord and the be(innin( of the Ba) of the ;?RB 2ud(ments.

Rev. 167, 0ehold, 3e is comin( with clouds, and ever) e)e will see 3im, even those who %ierced 3im= and

all the tribes of the earth will mourn over 3im. *ven so. Amen.'It is reall) onl) within that contet that all the information written to those 7 churches can be sensibl)

correlated.

4%ecificall), in three of the letters, there is the e%ectation of &hrists return at the Ba) of the ;?RB. !hereis scattered here and there, in those letters, s%ecific information that can onl) a%%l) to a church that is %resent

on the earth %rior to the Ba) of the ;?RB.

3owever, an) (eneration after /ohn can find fulfillment in the 7 churches, for at an)time durin( the histor)of the church, the events could take %lace which would %reci%itate the 7th week.

Furthermore, there is certainl) a %resent benefit to the church throu(hout its entire histor), for man) of the

%rinci%les found in the letters haveJuniversal a%%lication. 0ut the s%ecific a%%lication must be ke%t within the

contet of Rev. 167.

!herefore, the letters to the 7 churches should be studied with the idea that ever)thin( that is dealt with will

be an issue within the church of the end times. !he s%ecific a%%lication therefore, will see a church that will

encounter the o%%ressive rei(n of the beast and one, who throu(h faithfulness, will be (uarded from the hourof testin( that will come on the whole world 5Rev. @!I; the arrival of

/esus, which has alread) been %roven to occur while the church is e%eriencin( the (reat tribulation 5-!hes.


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1#-8. !he remainin( cha%ters are not A;; chronolo(ical but contain several %assa(es that 0A&!RA& to

events that be(in at the mid%oint of the 7th week, such as the start of the beasts rei(n. !hese cha%ters also

contain events that occur AF!*R the arrival of /esus= the Ba) of the ;ord 2ud(ments via the trum%ets andbowls.

@ow it is true that as of verse 61, /ohn is to be shown what must take %lace after these thin(s.' 3owever,

the vision that continues to be shown to /ohn is not ;IMI!*B to the thin(s that will occur after the ra%ture,but in order to (ive a more com%lete eschatolo(ical %icture, the vision 0A&!RA&4 with details of what

will have occurred %rior to the ra%ture.

Fruchtenbaum6 In other words, Rosenthal a(ain does eactl) what he accused "re#!ribulationists of doin(6

CIt is hi(hl) doubtful that an)one who ri(htl) viewed the book of Revelation as futurist would ever havesu((ested that the letters to the seven churches were not warnin(s to &hristendom inside the seventieth week

were it not an absolute essential to, have the churches removed from that %eriod to sustain %retribulation

ra%turism. 5%.-9-8

!he fact is that a %re#tribulational a%%roach to the 0ook of Revelation is far mare natural than Rosenthals

view. "re#!ribulationism takes the three#fold division of 1619 literall) and seriousl)= and se%aratin( cha%ters-#< from cha%ters #-- is sim%le ee(esis followed b) man) who are net "re#!ribulationists. !he fact is that

it is hi(hl) doubtful that an)one would have tried to %ut cha%ters -#< inside the seventieth week and,

therefore, later in the 0ook of Revelation if it was not an absolute essential to have the &hurch (o throu(hthree#uarters of the seven )ears. !hen who is reall) strainin( the tetL Furthermore, Mid# and "ost#

!ribulationists have no Cabsolute essential to have the churches removed from that seven )ears, and )et,

the) also have basicall) missed the connection. !here is a sound reason wh) all the other views have missed

the connection6 it is sim%l) not thereD'

A(ain, these statements are refuted b) the teachin(s of /esus and "aul, who to(ether, make it %erfectl) clearthat the church $I;; be %resent durin( the time of tribulation from the mid%oint of the 7th week until the

ra%ture, at an unknown da) and hour %rior to the end of the 7th week.

Accordin(l), it is indeed, uite natural to see cha%ters -#< as havin( a%%lication to the church durin( the(reat tribulation.

Fruchtenbaum6 !here is a lot less confusion if one reco(niKes that terms such as C!ribulation= CGreat

!ribulation= Cseventieth week of Baniel= CBa) of the ;ord are all interchan(eable terms and are concernedwith the contet of divine 2ud(ment rather than each markin( off a s%ecific time#%eriod.'

!o lessen confusion does not ensure accurac). I have alread) demonstrated that these terms are @?!interchan(eable. -!hes. -6< is sufficient b) itself to show that the Ba) of the ;ord will not occur until

AF!*R the mid%oint of the seventieth week of Baniel.

Fruchtenbaum6 !he Ra%ture is indeed %re#wrath, but in order to be %re#wrath, it must also be %re#

tribulational.'

As has been clearl) demonstrated in this review, the tribulation, which be(ins at the mid%oint of Baniels


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7th week, is @?! a time of Gods wrath.

It is a time of distress on &hristians and /ews at the hands of 4atan and unbelievin( men. !he first < S )ears

of the 7th week is clearl) a time of %eace that is totall) o%%osite to the events %ortra)ed in seals - throu(h:.

!he tribulation is what is %ortra)ed in those seals, and is am%lified in cha%ters 1-#1

refutation of fruchtenbaum

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