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TRANSCRIPT -- 77TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY/

. OCTOBER 1971 SESSION

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NOVEMBER 12y 1971

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cYWPLàIN: àeverend Don Alan Rose, concordia Seminary, j. sprtngfield, 111.

i! PRESEDENT: .

'' Reading of the journal. Moved by Sepator Davidson I. I

the rpading .of the lournal be dispensed with. A11 in Ik . . ' q . ..t ! ' .7 ' ' '' favor signify by saying aye. Contcary minded.. Hotion 'l

j 1prevails. Committee Jeports. jl(

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î'''. SECRETARY:

. Senator Cherry, Chairnan of the Executive Committee,l

reports out the following bills: House bills 3709, 3710,

3711: 3712, 3713, 3714. and 3715, with the recommendation!i1 Do Pass. House bill 2667 with the recommendation Do Notl /l p '

Pass as amended. House bill 3708 with the recommendation

Do Not Pass. Governor's message of Nov. 9, 1971, recommend j. '

!l ' . confirmation. Covernor's Message of Nov. 4, 1971: recommend

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. , . . , (; conftrmation in part. .

y . .. . ' .i PRESTDENT : .

J Seaator Cherry. .J . ' .. SENATOR CHERRY:l

I now move that the Senate resolve itself into execu-

. itfve session to consfder the recommendatfons of the Governor I. . . . . j

and the' action taken by the sum of the Executive Committee.

. PRESIDENT: .

. A11 in favor signify by saying aye. Contrary ainded.. - - :

Motion prevails. Senator Cherry. U i

SENAIOR CHERRY:

' ' I nov' moke thât'the Senate adkise and' Jonsent to the ' .

. . recommendations made Vy the .Governor and the messages as

read by the Secretary of the Senate. j!. . . . ' : . . . , ! .

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PRESIDENT:! '

Motion that the Senate do advise and consent. For

what purpose does Senator Bidwfll arise?

SENATOR BIDWILL:

I didn't hear the names that were read out -- that we. . .

Were they unsalariedî

PRESIDENT:

The..oosenator Cherry.

SENATOR CHERRY:

These are the unsalaried and there is one salarfed

position that we advised and consent in the Executive

Committee. Senator Bidwill, and that was the Iember of

the parole and pardon boardy Mrs. Washington.

PRESIDENI:

Senator Bidwill.

à WILLisEN T0R BID

I object to that one appointment. I,want them

separated--the non-salaries separated from the salary.

PRESIDENT:

There . .

SENATOR BIDWILL:

Can. we vote on the non-palaried?

PRESIDENT:

We will separate the . Let Let's take a roll

call, ff this ts acceptable now, Senator Bidwill and

Senator Chçr'ry, first on the non-salaried recommendations

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. of the ..& from'the Executive 'Cowpùittee. :

JENATOR BzoWILL:

Alright.

PRESIDEWT: .

0p that question the Secretary will call thç rotl. '

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zhts zs t:e non-salaried. 1SECRETARY:

Arringtony Baltz, Berning, Bidwill, Bruce, Carpentier,

' Carrolls Cherry, Chew, Clarke, Collins, Coulsonyo cours.e, . $

Davfdson, Donnewald Dougherty, Egany Fawell, Gflbert,#'

Graham, groen, Hall, Harris, Horsley, Hynesy' Johnsy Knuepfery !

Knuppel, Kosfnskiy Kusibab: Latherow, Laughlin, Lyonss

McBroom, Mccarthy, Merritt:' Mitchlery Mohrj Neistein:

Newhouse, Nibill, OêBrien, Ozinga: Palmer, Partee, Rock,1

k. s ,Romano, Rosander, Saperstein, Savickas, Smith, Soper, Sout ./

Swinarskiy Vadalabene, Walker: Weaver.

PRESIDENT:

Bruce aye. 0n that questfon the yeas are 36 the

nays are none. The Senate does advise and consent. Senator

cherry? ,

' SENATOR CHERRY: . ' . ' ' . . ' . ' '

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I wish to withdraw my motion at the moment'for the

advise and zonsent of Mrs. Washington as a member of the i!

Parole and Pardon Board. If11 make the motion later, and

I now move that the Senate ... uh ... . .;

PRESIDENT:

. . . Executive Session do now arfse.. . . . $'

. jSENATOR CHERRY: .. . '

. 1. . . Executfve Session do now arise. ' ;

PRESIDENT: ' ' ' '

A11 in favor signify by saying aye. Contrary minded. !

' Motion prevails. .

Resolutions. Petitions. Motions. Introduct . . . . . .

T' . .. S'enator Merritt. Senator Lyons?' Alrfght: ' '

. 1' Messages from th'e House. . . '

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A =essage from the House, Mr. Selcke. Clerk: Mr.. jPresident, I am directed to inform the Senate that t:e ';

House of Representatives has adopted the following preamble

and joint resolution, in the adoption of whicb I am fn-

.iskructed,to ask the concurrence of the Senate, to-wit:. . ! . . .. . . . ... . . . IJ :.s? . . . : .' . .. HOPSE JOINT RESOLUTION 109. It's congratulating Senator . . .

I mean, Representative Connolly on being President of N.L.C. p

PRESIDENT:

Who's the sponsor on this? Senator Coulson, do you

want to . . . Thfs is a congratulatory . . . on the Consedt

Calendar, Joint Resolution. It involves your district. '2I

Consent Calendar.

SECRETARY:

Message from the House from Mr. Selcke, Clerk: Mr.

President, 1 am directed to inform the Senate that the.

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' uouse of Repr'esentatives hàs passed a bi11 of the'followtng ' '

title, in the passage of which I am instructed to ask the

concurrence of the Senatey to-wft: HOUSE BILL 3060.

. Message from the House from Mr. Selcke, Clerk:

Mr. President, I am directed to fnforl the Senate that the.

House of Representatives has refused to concur with the

Senate in the .adoption of their amendment to a bill of ihe

follovfng tftle, to-wit) HODSE BILL 2874. Thfs b1ll ïs. I'Ji

. j. ' 'Senator Harris s btll.

. PRESIDENT: . '

Is Senator Harris on the flopr? Senato? Harris?. i

. lW'e ' iïav e. a me.s s'ag'e f r om t he Ho u s e .' Now wha t # é ' t he ' numb er . .

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SECRETARY:. :

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'SEtkETARY:

They refused to concur in amendment aumber 1,

Eouse Ameùdment number 1 . or Seaate Amendment, rather.

It's the Home Rule Amendment that they refused to concur

wïth. senator.

SENATOR HARRIS: -

Hmm. What do you know about that7: I refused to .

I moved that the Senate not recede and request the House

to recede. I guess thatls my motion. I got a ... 0h,

are we at the point for committee. .

FRESIDENT:

Right.

SENATOR HARRIS:

Okay.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Harris moves that the Senatç refuse to redede

and request a conference committee. A1l in favor sfgnify

by saying aye. Cont. . Senator Partee?

SENATOR PARTEE:

T'= trying to read that? Is that 52 . . or what

fs that other on the end? 0h! Ihat's different. Thank

yOu.

FRESIDENT:

A11 fn favor sïgnffy by saying aye. Contrary minded.'

Motion prevails.

SECRETARY:

A message from the House by Mr. Selcke, Clerk: Mr.

President, I amvirec-ted to infgrm the Senate that the

House of Representatives has refused to concur Fith the

Senate in the adoption of their amendments to a bill of. . . . .

j' .ithe following titley ta-wit: H0U E BILL 1509. That s

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Se'nate axendxents number and 2 and this bill is Senator

John?s.

PRESIDENT':

Senator, thfs is a bill It's a return over from

the House. If you want to wait on it, we can get back to

you, Senator. Senato: Johns?

SENATOR JOHNS:

Mr. President, what This will be short and

sveet. I do not accept the amendmeat from the House and

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PRESIDEKT:

Senator Johns moves that the Senate refuse to recede

and requests a cenference commfttee. Al1 in favor sfgnffy

by saying aye. Contrary minded. Motion prevails.

PRESIDENT:

We are agafn operatfng .1th lfsts sgpplfed by the

leadership on b0th sides. If senators wish bills called

please make requests on both sides. For what purpose

does Senator Mccarthy arfse?

SENATOR MCCARTHY:

Iy I presume youfre talking about House bills?

PRESIDéNT:

Talking about House bills and Senate bills.

' ' SENATOR MCCARTHY :

Well: are you going to go Senate first?

PRESIDENT:

Wetvre, going to take the Senate bills firsz thvat are

requested by the leadérshfp.

Senate Bill 1308 Senator Saperstein.>

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SENATOR SAPERSTEIN:

Mr. President: would like to draw Senate Bfll 1368

%aèk to second reading for a very simple amendment.

PRESIDENT:

3rinéing it back to second reading for amendment.

Can you explain the amendment, Senacor?

SENAIOR SAPERSTEIN:

Yes. It is ..... a reduction of $40,000,000 from

t*e originat appropriation of 170. I move its adoption .

PRESIDENT:

Is there any discussion?

SENATOR SAPERSIEIN:

lhousand, rigbt. Qf course.

PRESIDENT:

A11 in

'Motion prevails.

SENATOR SAPERSTEIN:

Hundreé an@ . . .

favor signify by saying aye. contrary minded.

FRESIDENT:

1315, Senator Smith. Senator Smith.

SENATOIR SMI'VH :

President Pro

Te=, but should like that this bill and Senate Bill 1316'and 6e considered as a package'. They a11 are ïnterrelated

and am hoping, personally, that a vote on either of these

Bills apply to a11 tbree bills.

'PRESIDENT:

Is there objection

Smith may pro . . . Senator Carroll? No: weAre

Senator Smith asked thât the sape roll call be applied'to

a1l three bf11s--1315, l6, and l7. Senator Smith is now

recognized.

haven't discussed this wit: the

to that? Leave is granted. Senator

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iSENATOR SMITH: t

. $ I. . !Mr. President and members of the Senate, this is a series

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of bills that were given to me about two or three days ago.

They have traveled thus far to the pofnt where they are nowl .: on third reading. 0ne of the bills makes an appropriationy

.which I hope I won't have to discuss later,' and the other two' '

(' j. . seeks to providg t*e means of raising the monies or having the :

monies available to support the proposed appropriatioa. Senate...

the first billy Senate .Bi11 1315: I hope...;'

y. PRESIDENT: !:

. ,k lJust a moment. Please. LetRs...let s...proceed, Senator. !IISENATOR SMIIH:

t House Bill 13...or rather, Senate Billy it is, 1315, the

1 firsy of the three bills, seeks to transfer certain funds from .ï f $the...from the Drivers' and Education fund to the General i

!.Revenue Fund. I will speak of that in a minute if you wish. I

l;. There. is auother bill. Senate Bill 1316. that seeks .to transfer1

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; -. from the Road Fupd some 20 millions of dollars to the Generali

Reveaue Fund in the State Treasury. Nowy Mr. President and

f members of the Senates I will speak now, thqn. briefly, to

; Senate Bill 1316. I call attention to the fact that in his 41i. Ij . IExcellency s budget documenty ia Table 5 on page a102 he

tat es tha t there will be a sur p 1us o f some 18 o'r mo re milîion ss

of iollars in that partidular fund pfter al1 appropriations.bave E'

j' been paid in fiscal 1972. It is the purpose of this particular'

bi11...1 might first state alao, that his Excellenoy inferred... lthat we may infer from h1s Excellency's statement: connection there- !

. vith, that as a xesult of certain other econômies'that there .

vtzz be an adattsonal, from 2 to j or perhaps 4 milzion dollarsadditiona'l, in that particular fundy the Road Fund. It fs the . '

, purpose of this particular bfll, or the hope, that a portion of! . ' i

chis amount be .used.to éupport the transfer of 20 millions of . y. . . . ; '. ;

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dollars to the General Revenue Fund as proposed in this bill.

'Further support of our contention, I can call your attention to the

fact that his Excellency has also stéted that the funds appropri-

ated for'General Assistance will be exhausted next month, in

the month of Decenbers and if that is true..vy and of course I

admit that h1s Excellency knows what he's talking about; we don't

deny thaty but if it be true khat the funds will be exhausted

next month, then Illinois, Gentlemen and Lady, will face a

' condition whlch I suggest will stagger the imagination of a11

of us. If that fs true and the funds vfll be exhausted and none

/provided, the conditions tbat will follow will caase hunger:/

iltness: the elosing of hospitals. And you may say what you

wish or mayy the facts of life indicate that men and women just

simply will not endure such hardships while other men and other

women are being paid to prevent the raising of foodstuffs.

Briefly, that explains this particular bill. Nowy there are

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the threé billsy 1315, *16: And 17. Having said èhat I've '

said thus far in order not to take up additional time with

regards to these billsy which if passed will bave to go to '

the House: I will accept a roll call vote on House...on Senate

Bfll 31...1316, and have it applied to the otber two bills.

lf there's no discussion: Mr. President: then I ask for a roll

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call.'

' PRESIDENT: . . . '

. Senator clarke. ' . .

SENATOR CLARKE: '

Mr. Speaker, or Mr. Presidentz can t ask a prdcedural '

question? .

' PRESIDEM:: . - . '' ' ': . .

Yes. '* .c

i SENATOR CLARKE: ' '

We are plannfnv, hopefully, to adlourn today, or, a.t worst,

tomorrow. These are senacç bills.on third reading and I thought1 . . . . ') . ' . . . .' '

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we had decided weld take up priority items and uh...how,

.procedurally, could these possibly get passed in that time

schedule?

FRESIDENT)

Welly the Chair isa't going to predict what this body is

goipg to be doing as far as schedule, and theyrre on the list,

' and .any...I indicated to your staff man, too, 'if you have

any Senate bills, they would be given priority in being called.

SENATOR CLARKE:

Vell, alright. 1'11 go on then, Mr. President. I do

/think, though, that there are priority bills that we should/address ourselves to, and of course, as we a11 know, this

has become a polttical issuey unfortunately.

PRES IDENT :

I f I ma y i n t e r r up t , S en a t o r C la r k e , j u s t f o r a mo me n t .

I ' ve j ust been advi sed that the House p lans to be in Sess ion

th o u gh S unday s ' e' o tlla E i f a % en'a t e b 11l p a s s e.s to d'ay : it.r .

could pass the House. Excuse mè for interrupting: Senator.

'SENATOR CLARKE:

Welly as the Pro Tem knows: I have different information

from the speaker that he hopefully plansy if we can cooperate

and address ourselves to the important thingsa to be out of

here by Yaturday at the latest; and I would hope tha: that

maintains, because I think that we can, because we are all

'reasoaable people. In this casex thoughy I wopld just ltke

to .say that I.think it's very intçresting. A Neek ago we

discussed a bill to give the Chief Executive of this State' the flexibility to transfery for emergency purposes, from

'the very type of fund çhat this series of bills nov addresseé

itself to; and there was a statemenr on thts floor that the

other side of the aisle would never give that kind of power

to the' chtef Executive. Nowy of course, I know that here

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they want to give it to him specifically from certain funds

and ppecifically by legislative directfve; and so, of course,

you are retainlng your legislative prerogative. But I would

a1so...I wpuld suggest, though: there is a little anomaly

here. 1he whole thrust of the Constitutional Convention,

which your mayor and your leaders supported too, was towards

giving the Chief Executive the kind of management tools with

which to do a Job, as well as giving the local home rule units

the tools with which 'to do the Job. And tt.has been pointed

out in debates over in the House and in the papers that the1llocal home rule units

, the County of Cook, the City of Chisagoy/

has funds available of this nature. They can use those funds

if they want to, to alleviate this situation. Ihey are coming

to the State. I think that we are really spinning our wheels

because tbese issues are being negotiated and are going to

have to be decided at a much higher level. And I would urge

the meubers on this side to opposeqthese series of bills.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Coulson.

SENATOR COULSON:

I too rise in opposition. The notion that the legfs-

lative branch would select which funds are surplus in their

opinion, rather than giving the executive .branch some oppor-'urpluses is outrageous to xe. And ltuaity to search for such s

1 call your attention particularly to the richest, most

luxurious, well funded item in the state budget from which,

if you'need money: it coul'd well be taken; and that is the 1judgesî salary fund and ihe judges' retirement fuad' which is

' . . . .tremendously well funded' and one of tbe ridhest funds in the

State of' Illinois. And if you do need noneys I suggest that1

' we tell Judge Cavelli that we take it from his judgesf retire- l. . i

meùt fund, whiach is: I .believe, a 90Z reserve funded.pension

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system. And the idea of taking it away from one impoverished

section and preservlng intact, by the discretion of the other

side of the aisle, the wonderful prerogatives of the judicially

fuaded salàry and rettrement system is to me outrageous. Itfs

not only robbing Peter to pay Pauly ft ls telling Paul that

hm can keep what he has got as well.

PRESIDEXT: ' '

' SCZXQ0r PZYVCC.

' SENATOR PARTEE:

Well, Mr. Presideat: L didn't know these bills were go.ing

/' to excite people to that extent. We aIe only trying to be rà

helpful to the Governor. We know that he has a problem in

this area, as do we. We took these figures from areas vhere

the Governor's figures showed that there was money avaflable.

Now, Senator Clarke, I still say that the Legislature oughtfto have something to do with the selection of the funds from '!

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''we want the Govern' ör to have s'ome' . 1. whsch

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flexibitity: but we don't want to make him a fisca'l dictator

to tbe distress of the Legislature. And that is: of course,

why we take the position we dfd about the bill you are alluded

to. I would suggest that ge ought to have as many prforities '' j

' as are posaible. The Governor is burning midnight oil, his

d L brreau is still working feverishly I am tgld to dobu ge , , .. 1j'something about this situation. I don't know how Judge cavelli

t iav'olved tn thisy except that Ae was the judge who tried .go .

the çase and I guess if a case goes to court, it has to have

a judge by some'name or description. But we wanted to try :

to give the Governor as many options as possible, and that is

why we w'ere tr'ying wfth this. bfll. Now, 'tf the teqislature

has to meet a dav lonzer or two days lonaer, it doesnlt bother

me, Particularly when people are hungry: particularly when '

' peopte kn nursing homes need carè and help and medicine and . '

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doctors aid. So I don't know if we are going to adjourn1

tomorrow or the day after, but I do know that ve should do

everything that is humanly possible to bring some relief to

people who are suffering. And on that basis I urge the support

of this bill. .

PRESIDENT:

senator Horsley. ' k

SENATOR HORSLEY:I

. I would like to aik the sp'onsor of the bill or Senator

Partee, either one. I have read these three bills. Are there I

any amendments to them?i

PRESIDENT:!

Senator Smith. I

SENATOR SMITH:

There's an amendment to two of the billsy in one of which '

a new sectfon is added. With reference to 3l6 a neg seetion

'' ' ' was added and a new flgu're was inseyted. The reference'to the .

bill now under cons'ideration Sehator there were t'wo amend-. jmeats. The first of uhich...

PRESIDENT: .

Some of the Senators canft hear you, Senator. If you caa i

speak into tbe mike.

S ENATO R S.MI T 11 : 1'

. jI might say to the Senator, I saw to it personally that

one.of the then proposed amendments <as placed 9n your desk. :

Ah...the amendment to the particular bill...was .a çhange of, . . j.

ffgures on line two...We11, you don't have them.

PRESIDENT: .

Speak iqto.you/ mike there, Senator. ' . .

' SENATOR SFIITH: ' .

' Do you have it? I'will brfng ong to you, Senator. . !

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'RESIDEMT:

Is there further discussion? I am not trying to cut you

off here, Senator Horsley. Senator Carpentier? Senator I

Horsley.

SENATOR HORSLEY:

My question to you and Senator Partee fs this. Evea

re'ading the amendment, which you have sent overy this does

not require the moaey to be repaid back into the motor fuel

fund or any other fund that you are taking it out of. Now

are you proposing that we start a new program in Illinois

Jwhereby we are going to divert these monies tnto general

revenue wfthout repaying them into the fund that had a spe ia1

purpose for which the tax was levied for that fund?

PRESIDEXT:

Senator Partee.

SENATOR PARTEE:

pYou wfll aotiee, Senator, that there is no prohtbitton ,

. . . ' jagainst payiag the money back. ' .

PRESIDENT:

' Senator Eorsley. ' ' ' '

SENATOR HORSLEY:

Ihat's like the o1d question, ''Have you quit beating your )

wife?lf You knov. And ah...I agree there is no prohfbition,' '

jbut Iy certainlyy for one: will not stand up here aad give

is a Republican or a Deml/rat 1anybody, I donft care whether he.

. . . jor who he is

, tbe right to tap tiese funds and put them into .jgeneral revenue without a requirement to pay it back. Now

. . iwe did have a bill bere, there was a 1ot of oppositfon to it. ,

. . allowing the Goverpor tè transfer thèse funds, kith a definfte. -

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. . ' ' . l' k b id badk wtthin 6 months after i. .provtsion the xoney ha to e pa

it was transferfed. Now we bave a wtde open procedure here

. allowing for Ahis money to be taken out of these special. fuads'

with no requ'iremsnt whatsoever chat they.be paid back.' N'ow '' * j

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(iyou are going to invite bankruptcy in this Statey fiscal I

' irrespoasibility; and 1 don't want this to say: or to be under-

stood as saylag that we should not feed people, we should I!

not take care of their needs, but letfs face up to our respoa-!

' sibilities. We don't have the money. Let's find a way to

get ity but letfs keep this State solvent and not go dowa

the drain under a secret thing like this. I want the people

of this State to know that you are proposing that we tap the

very funds...l just came back from Harrisbur.g, Illinois. I

have been down there about 5 tfmes in the last 2 weeks trying

an inlunction suitz and 1 tell you when you see what is beihgl/done with our motor fuel money, the roads that have being re-

pariedy the lives that are being saved because the roads are.

being widened, they are being straightened; aad whea you tell

these people we are gofng to quit this program because there

wonlt be any money; we're going to take it avay from you even

thôugh we collected it off of every gallon of gasolfne; we'

are going to take it and use it for anothe'r purpose, I think'

o u a r e go ing t o f ind s ome 'p r e t t y ma d p eo p l e wh o s e h :L glaway sy' cannot be straightened and completed in their areas under a

comprehensive program which has been started. I will not vote

for any bill that does not have a repaycent provision in it.

PRESIDENT: .. l

Is there further discussion? Senator Berning. Senator

Smith 5zi1l be retognized before we close debate. Senator

Berning. ' . '

SENATOR BERNINGC '

Yes, Mr. President and mewbers of the Body. I would like

to ask .the sponsor what the amendment to Senate Bill 1315 did.

I donft'seem to have a copy of that. '

. PRESIDENT: !

' S e fta t7 0 r S m :i. t:'h'.' ' ' ' ' '' '. . , . ;

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SENATQR SMITR:

It changes two figures. Senator. It insertsy on line 2,

the figure 15. And, frankly, I am speaking from memory. And

on the.eaand on the.-.and on the following, in speaking with

reference to the amendment which was just handed you, Senator:

and whi.ch was placed.on his desk. on lfne 2 the amendment

chânges a figure. doa't recall what the previous figure

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was, but it changed that figure to the figure 15 and on ïhe

next line, it changed a given figure from 15 to 16, as I recall.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:

Then: Mr. Presidenty and members of the Body. I would

.. like to call attention to what appears to me to be a serious

defect in the bill. If the amendment, which I don't seem

to have a copy of, is as represented by the sponsor, it does

not address itself to the very matter that concerns ne here

with Sepate Bill 1315. lhe representation is, according to

the digest: that this is a txansfer of funds from the driver

educatton fund, and so states on the face of the bill.

However: in the body of the bill: and call your attention

to section oae: 'îAn Act providing for the transfer of money

from the fair and exposition fund to the agriculture premium

fund.n And then goes on Lo make the amendment that this bill

provides for a transfer to the general revenue fund. So tbis

is not out of the driyer education fund, this 'ié out of the

educational premium fund and, therefore, I think the bfll is

defective.

. PRESIDENT:

Is there further discussion? Senator'smith ?ay close the

d e b a t e .

S 2 N A T 0 R S :1 I T H :'

First, may I reply Do Senator Berning. The améndment,

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f.

. . . . . J ' ;.. . . t,

. . . j..

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I ' j

Senator, and it is not my fault that you did not receive it

bec#pse it was placed there. It refers to b0th funds, Senator.. . ..- .. - -- -. .-& . . .

Now with reference to my very good friend: Senator Horsley.

franklys I anticipated that you would ask that question. I

am sorry you raised it. The annual...proper in having raised.: .

it. I knew you would catch it. But, Senator, I want to

asiufa .you that I realiâe thit there ts no 'statemento..,any-

thing in this bill with reference to the restoration of these

funds at all; but I assure you in my honor as a man that if

the bill passess I will...when the general revenue fund is' jhealthy, that I wtll personally sponsor a bill for the res

toration of these funds.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Horsley.

SENATOR HORSLEY:

Can you predict at anytime in the foreseeable future,

' ' d b1i ations when the revenue fund. . pnder present revenues an o. . g > .

will ever be healthy. . '

PRESIDENT:

. Senator Smith. '

SENATOR SMITH:

I can only say that I have watched the trend of thought

' tbat has beea suzzested zeaerallv. Senators and I am sure that

his Excellency, in his wisdom and hié farsightedness, having

brought forth an income tax af:er stating that he was opposed

to ft, will have the wisdom and the knowledge and the experi-

ence to find means of raisinz the additional funds.

PRESCDENT: ' .

. Secretarv will call the roll. '

SECREIARX:

' Arrington, Baltz, Berning, Bidwill, Bruce, Cérpentier,

' Carroll, Cberry, Chewy Clarke, Collinsy Coulsony Course:j ' .' . ' . ' ' ' ' '' . ' .. ' . . ' -..1 7 - . . . ' . . . . . ' .

IDavidsony Doanewaldy Dougherty, Egany Yawell, Gilbert: Graham:

Croen: Rall, Harris, Horsley, .'

jPRESIDENT: k1

Senator Horsley.

SENATOR HORSLEY:

have sat in these Bodies for many yèars and I have seea'.:. the rights of the people eroded, and taken away from them, and

chtpped at here and there until we are almost down to the

bottom of the barrel. ' And when we come along and say to these

people, HWe are going to take the moaey that we said to you

ln good faith...'l And when we raiseà the tax to build high-

Waysy these people bought it> when we said we are gofng to have

bond issues to do this and to do that, the people went along'

i it because they believed in our integrity. Now we arewitlI

'

, Igoing to violate that integrity and say, We are going to take

that money and spend ft for something else without any require-t; ment that we repay..t' Without a repaymen.t provisioh, want to

.! be recorded no..1

SECRETARY:

.. .Hynes, Johns, Knuepfer, Knuppdl...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Knuppel.

. SENATOR KNUPPEL:

I only wish that Senator Coulson had offered'such an

amendmqnt. Ivthink maybe could have voted for it where they

would take this money from the judfdial Pension fuhd and

their salary fund. thiak that would be great, but unfqr-

tunately he talked and didnït do it. And this doesn't

appropriaté any money. It merely makes it :vailable if tle'

Governor cares to do it. And he wants to transfer funds

around aad play with them, and I don't see why we shouldnlt

. a l 1ow hi m tn i h i.s ' i'li s t.an.cae an d .s e e .h o%l hé dö 'e s , f i r s t o f a 11 :* ê ' . '

' . 1 8 ..

. à . ' Il

! . . 4.

j . . . . j.' . j

'

. . k

.

'

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' 1

on a Erial basis. I vote aye. '

SECRETARY:

( .- xosinsuts Kusibab, Latherow. Laughltn, Lyons. McBroom,

Mccarthy, Merritt, Mitchler, Mohry Neistein, Newhouse, Nfhtll,

o'Briezu ozinga, Palme<, Partee,. Rock, Romano, Rosandery

Saperstein, Savickas, Smith...

P R E S I D E lh1 'J' : .

Senator Smith.

SENATOR SMITH: '

I want to make one brief statement. The Senator from

Sangamon stated that we are at the bottom of the barret. That

statement was made a few days ago by the distinguished' Senator

from Peoria, also. I merely state that these gentlemen cer-

tainly know that we are not at the bottom of the barrel. There

is plenty of money available. There will be plenty of money. t

available when we leave here tomorrow, or Sunday or wbenever t. . . . . j

. we are Permitted to do so; and there Will be Plenty of mppey ... . 't' j' -

jin June of next year. He also suggested that we should have ltaken the monies from a different fund. We preferred the

bill as it is from this partfcular fund because of what his

Excetlencyîs budget document shows, and I designated tbe. k

page. We think that this series of bills is a good series

8Xd ; VO2C 8XO. ' '

k ' . 1SECRETAR : )

. .. Soper, Spurs, Swinarskf, Vadklabene, Walker, Weaver. '

PRESIDENT:

On that question the yeas are 25> the nays are 14. The

bill having failed to receive tbe neeessary three-fifths votez. . . j

the bills are declared defeated. Senate...senator Spith. '

' S E lç A.T 0 R S M I T H : . . . .L '

on t he t wo b i l 1. s '?

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PRESIDBNT:

Right. That was the understanding. Senate

Senator Carroll.

SEEATOR CARRQLL:

Mr. President and Senators. I'd like to' return Senate

Bill 1130 to second reading for tbe purpoée of an amendment.

The amendment should be passed around because they were

given' to th.e'pages''a,little while ago. This i'é a siiple

amendment that preserves the rights under credit union member-

ship for the employees of the Departmeat of Public Aid of

Cook County, as the original bill tiansfers that Department to

the State Department of Public Aid. lnd I ask for the adoption

of the amendment, please.

PR/SIDENT:l

Is there any discussion? Of the...this is on the amend-

ment. Anendment number favor signify saying aye.

Contrary mindqd. Ihe amendment adoptedq Webll return it'. v . . ' . ; . ' .. '' .

to third readipg and after intervening busxnes'ss wefll g'et

back to your bill, Senator. 1308, Senator Saperstein. This

is the bill you amended and we now have had intervening business.

Senator Saperstein.

SENATOR SAPERSTEIN)

Mr. President and Senators. In June of the latter day in

our previous seskiony 171: we passed Eouse Bill 2567: which '

mandated the Department of Public Instruction to develop...

PRESIDENT)

Just a moment, please. Let's...we have conferenees,

let's get them off the floor. Please, gentlemen. Thts...

7roeeedy'senator.

SENATOR SAPERSIEIN:

Thank you. develop a comprehensive school health

education progrgm. Tbe bill passedz was stgned...ir carziqd no

' . 2 () .

*e

appropriation. Ihe Superintendent of Public Instruction had

!in h1s budqet an amount of $250:000 not onlv for the com-

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-

. . . . . i'. - - 2prehensive progran, but also to continue the drug abuse program,

venereal disease, public health and etc. (smoking. alcoholism

and its effect on health). The Governor vetoed the $250,000appropriation in the Superintendentfs budget. Nov we have

today an ongoing program drug abuse, in alcoholism, in

' s no k i n.g i v en e r e.a 1 'd i s d a s e... '. ' T h e s e p r o k r am s we r e s t. a r t e d d u r i n g

the previous Superintçndent Ray Pagey but there are no funds>

'

to continue this program' on the local levels because the money

for drug abuse was in the item that.was vetoed by the Governor.

We have reduced the amount of 17Q as originally in the bill,

$170,000 to $130,000...

PRESIDENT:il

Just... Please. Let's... Proceedy Senator.

SENATOR SAPERSTEIN:

Thank you. ... so we may continue this program. Now,

Superintendent Bakalis say's there is absolutely no moaey in

the budget to carry on the essential drug abuse, vernereal

disease, alcoholism and smoking. Now these are ongoing pro-

grams. They have been developed. We have had in-service

training for teachers and if we do noL get this appropriatioa

these programs will have to cease. Now I want you to think

about this carefully #nd vhat this will nean to these programs

rfght in the schools: .and I hope that you vill realize that

$130,000 is a very minu'te sum to earry on these prograns.

urge your support.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Gilbert.'

j . . 'ENATOR GILBERT:

Well this, this: as jenator Saperstein has pointed out:

was part from

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Office of the Superintendent's budget by the Governor in his...

vhem he signed the bill and a: that time we discussed it at

tength. It s the contention the Bureau of the Budket,

I've checked with them this week on it. They say that the

funds are not available. If this program is going to hâve

to be curtailed for a short time or slowed dowa: there are

probably sooe local funds fn soae these schools that can

' ûi ' lf it caùnot'.be' ' 1Xm afraid Vefllhelp'ko continue xith t . s. , .

just have to wait on .it because the funds are not avatlable.k l30 000 here, therefsThe 130.000 is not much. yes, but there s ,

20,000 there, there's 500,000 some place else; and vhen you

add it a11 up, it gets up into the millions. Welre already...

as Auditor Howlett satd we must tighten our purse strings.#

'

Webre already approaehing a $40:000,000 deficit. It could

probably be more, depending, of course, on the economy. There

are' no new sources of revenue coming in and I urge you to

d.efeat this. leaislatton.

PRESIDEXT:

Senator Hynes.

SENAIOR RYNES:

Mr. President: members of the Senate. Very briefly:

think this is highly important legislation. It involves the

d.rug education program for the entire State of Illinofs.

Without this appropriation: We ar'e not going to have such a

prozr#m. I think all of us recoqnize the need for and.' . . '-' '

think it would be false eeonomy at its worst to defeat thts

bill.

PRESIDENT:

The Secretary will c.all the roll. Senator Berning:

Sorry.

SENAIOR EERNINC:

Thank you, Mr. President, and members of the body.

.. 2 2*-

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j'!1 .

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i

x 1... Let me commend the sponsor for her sincerity in attempting

to, fn her vfev? meet'a sertous problem. Wfthout gettlng lnto

! .the merits of the program itself, because I think any member

of this body will agree that irrespective of anything that

we have been able to do either on a local level or nationally

through television and everything else, smoking, for one

. thing, is on the rise among our students. Drug use, whether!. t' . .+ 2 ' ; ' . . J . % 'h . ' : . : ' . . , ' .'.: '.k . . , y. z . 1. . . ! t ' . ' . l ' ' . . . . ' ' . ': ' ' ' : ' . ' ' . . 1.: l ' %' ' ' . '. . . . . r . . . , . . ? ..' . .. . . ' ' .' ' . ' ' ' , . * r . k . ; ' . .you' call it abuse or what els:: I caii 'ik ùse, 'dfùg use: is . . . .'

on the rise in our s.dhooisy reaching down now even into the

junior higb and grammar school level; so these programs have

been less than effective in my opinion. However: if there

is any justification for the programs at all, and I'm alvays' :

willing to give the benefit of the doubt to anything that has

an admlrable objective, here, in my opinion, would be jus-

tification for transfer of funds out of the Driver Education. ;

. program into another education program. Had this been your i

. proposal, madam spqnsot, I uould hàve been i.nclined to support .

it. '

PRESIDENI:

. The Secretary will call tbe roll.

SECRETARY:

Arringtonp Baltz, Berning, Bidwill, Bruce, Carpentier,

Carrollz Cherry, Chew, Clarkes Collins, Coulson, Course,

idson Dognewald, Dougberty: Egan, Fawell, Gilbert GrahamDav , , , >

Groen, Hall, Harris, Horsley, Hynesy Jo'hns: Knuepfer, Knuppel,

Kosinski, Kusibab, Latherow, Laughlin, Lyonsy McBroom, Mccarthy:

Merritt, Mitchler, Mohr, Nefstefn, Newhouse, Nfhfll, O'Brfeny

Ozingas Palmers Partee, Rocks Romano; Rosandery Sapersteins

Savickas. Smith, Sopqr: Sours, Swinarski, Vadalabeney Walker:

' u ' .e 8. V e r .

P R E S I D f: N T ) '

Senator Saperszein. ' ' '' ''

SENAIOR SAPERSTEIN:

In explaining my vote 1 would like to say, thank you to

Mr. Berning for commending me on this legislation, proposed

legfslation', but may say to my esteemed colleague that his

recognttion of the rise of the serious question is no reason

for. us to turn our backs on trying to do something about

. .Now the gdnqsis of this proqram...thq...l think in the 1968/: . . . : ' ' .' *' ' ' ' . ': ! .. . . . . .. . '' '67 c'ame about a's a reco'knitfon' of the' serious questions by

Ray Pages the then Superintendeat of Schoolss and I caanot

understand this party position, thfs party posittou to turn

its hack on a subject matter that they considered great

iwportance. And if we were asktng for millions of dollars,

this would be another questionz but am sure during the days

work that you are going to pass many bills that require more

chan $130,000. Then shall have the pleasure askfng you,

''Where are you going

PRESIDENT:

on that question the yeas are

bill having failed receive the necessary three-fiftbs

majortty is declared defeated. For whaE purpose does Senator

gec the money?'' vote aye.

the nays are The

Saperstein arise?

SENATOR SAPERSTEIN:

postpone considera-

tion.

PRESIDENà:

The sorry, but he announce'd the results already.

It is not possfble do The...senate Bill 1130, Senator

Carroll.

SENAT'OR CARROLL:

Mr. President Senators. Senate Bill 1130, as amended,*

'

'7transfers the authority for operatien of tbe Cook County

Department Public to the State of Illïnofs, makes the

Chair is

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1 '

necessary techaical changes to preserve employee rights for

. eryoas curr'e-atly e=ployed by cook county and to meec federalP. ,

re'qufrements for reimbursement. In effect, it puts Cook I

County Department on the same basfs as the Departments in' .k

the other 101 counties of the State. Last week the Presfdent I

of the Cook County Board Mr. George Dunne, publicly endorsed: l

this legfstation. I believe this wtll help the welfare problem, . . . . . . . . .. . ,. . . . z . ., .. : .. t 2 . -. , . . : , .. 4 . : ;: , ' .t . :. . : . . . : . J - . : . .y . ty . . . . J . J . . .. : . ' . .. , .. t . ' a ;. . .. e .. s .. .. . . . . . . .' ' ' :. . ' . ' ... T 6 r 'tlhe 1/1t6 le S t t.e. a'Md. T 'd às'li f ö r 'a f a#o r âb 1é '9o.t é.. ' . . .. .

PRESIDENT: ' 6

Is there any dfscussfon? Senator Partee.

SENATOR PARTEE:

Well, Mr. President and members of the Senate. For maay

years there has been a ping pong ball situation involving the

Department of Public Aid and the Cook County Department of

Public Welfare, and ft's been volleyed from one part of the

State to the other across the net. Aad wetre in some strange j' and distressful times with reference Lo Public Aid, and it ' @

occurs to me that perhaps to transfer thfs authority from

Cook County to the State is vhere it rightfully belongs be- i

cause by so doing we obviate the discussions which take place

and the lack of responsibility that is expressed by b0th#

'

agencies, and ve put it in one place, it seems that ve can

then affix responsibility on the person where responsibilityultimately 1ây and that's with the Governor's office and ë

' through and by one of his Departments. So I'm going to support .

this legislation and I would ask the men on this side to support I' . j

. it, and letes put it in one place and let's see what happens. jI vote...T''m going to vote aye. . '

P RE S T..D ENT : . . . '

' i' The Secretary will call the roll. j

l

' Artington, Bqltz, Bidwill, Berning. Brucéy Carpentier, !

. ' Carroll, Cherry, .chew, Clarke, Collins, Coulson, Course,

' ' . - . 7% - ' .. . '' * 1 L ' ' .w

'

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j . . . . . ' . . .

. . t . ) . '

. ' :

' j I

t ' ' ' -. .

j. I' 1 . I' 1 j

Davidsony Donnewald: Dougherty, Egan, Fawell, Gilbert, Grahamz :

' Groen, Hall: 'Harris, Horsley: Hynes, Johnsy Knuepfer, Knuppel,

Kosinski, Kusibab: Latherowy Laughlin: Lyons: McBroon: Mccarthy,lMerritty Mitchler, Mohr: Xeistein, Newhouse, Nihill, OfBrien, '

ozinga, Palmer, Partee, Rock: Romanoy Rosander, Sapersteih: i1

Savickas, Smith, Soper...

PRESIDING OFFICER: (O'BRIEN) .: . . . . . ' . :. ' r . ' - >- . .. ; ) ' . . . . .. . 1 : ' ' ' 'w ' ; > ' 'w .. . . . .; x . . . s . . * , .: . . '. . + '.' ' ., >' .& . ?g . x . : . ) ... .u a . .t zL. . ....: z - . . ' . ! ! .* k . . : e.'o . %. 3. ' 7 # ' ) C ;).. . . t t '!

'

c .. i 'i: t % - cû.. - . ... ':.. ' . s : zié 'ti'i) - . j.m-:'t t .!y< -... . $ t .t:. , > ::.. ;': ... . ..ï.. ' , .,.. .:. Jn . . ' . .. .3 .* . . . . t '>r'V: :, : .'.. ; ..t. r ...Js .' . ''z '- .'i.) ...*'i =: ' '.'i ' i ' '.'. 4' . -t t ' .. * . t ï ' r; . : . 1qq . . . ; , .. . . y . ;.'g 4 . ' r. . z th Y. . > *. ' . : ;-.

SENATOR SMITH: .

I have been quietly waiting. Itfs possible that l will

rise on a point of personal privilege at the close of this

roll call.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (OCBRIEN)-

senator, did you vote? continue the roll call.

SECRETARY:

' X . . .sours, Swinarski, Vadalabene, Walket: Weaver.

. . . '. P RE S I D.I NG 0 F F I C ER :, ( 0 ' BR 1 EN ) . . . . '. . ' . . ' .

'

h d that questioa isBruce aye. Latherow aye. .T e vote o

44 yeas, no nays. The bill having received'the constitutional .

majority is dectared passed. Senate Bill 890. Senator Mccatthy.

890.

SENATOR MCCARTHY/

Yes: Mr. Chairman and members of the body. I...senate

Bill 390, 1'd ltke to bring back for the purpose of attaching

an amendment. IRd likeoo suggest what the proposed amendment .

is. It just makes the effective date of the report of the' Commission May 15 of 1972. May I have the consent of'.the body

for the purpose of attaching that amendment? .

PRESIDING OFFICER: (OXBRIEN) ' ' '

Is thère any objectlon to bringing Jenate Bill 890 back '. ' j

. kto second reading for purposes of amendment? Leave is granted.

Senate Bill 890 is ons..clçrk will read the amendment. Senator. .

. ' ' - 2 () - . :

. . . ; 1 ..- . . - -L

. '

. '.

. 't .l '

xee xw .

'N .

' explain the ameudment. i

SENATOR MCCARTHY:

IThe amendment makes the reporting date May 15, 1972. I $!

move its adoption. '

PRESIDING QFFICER: (QfBRIEN) '

A1l in favor, signify by saying aye. '

NayZ Tbe ayeshave it. Amendment number l to Senate Bill 890

. Third'. . . . . . - . - . ' .' . . . . .

' .j . .; à . . . . . s 2 ' .. . . . . '.. , .' . # ..' * ' .. .e' ' .' ' '. . . . , . '. ' ... ,, ''.' ' ..4 : - e ' N : '.'.. af . 'N .-' . r k JL '. ' , . ' ' 77 * r .:. .' -.k' ...' ... ... . . ( ' ' -.. e' z. ;. ,.. .' . . L g

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'.'.-'..J-.' .' . . ' v:- : r.-t-. .'? /f t vr e à. dk.tif,g.- . :''2iJi),u ,'k '::% 11,1' .61,.3 # 8.> ' .$./ n at'o é' .'.D. h k'glièsr.ky i .r ' . ''f. . -: 'v . ;. ..:- ; ..'v.îf r >. ..'. . J .-. -, ' z-' ' ''i. . . . j '. .? 2 h * . . . ; q, x . . t j. . ' $. . .z . . ; r ! , . . . . . . , : . ..: ... . . . : ..z . : o . . .: . .. . .. , . . . .. yy r , y . . . .. . . . . . t.î . u:, . ... : . f .: . : . . . .'. ;... q

*ï '. l L e 't? *. :.* . .... .' . . . . .a

œ . ,. 1* ' , .. . :v. $ .q . , :. ye. ; : .>. .. ;. q. ..' .. . . qj '. . : . i.. ' ' . . . z .. ! ' . '. .. ' . . . . jp . . k . . . .. : . : :. . r , . . . . $ . . . . . . . . - ' : . , . . . , . ) ..

' .; + . ; . ; : . ; u. . . . . . . . , . . j' SENATOR DOUGHERTY:

. Mr. President. House 3il1 1398 I would like to call backfor the purpose of offering an amendment

. I have the amend-

ment here. I would like. .. Itls amendmen: number 2.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (O'BRIEN)

Can we get a Page for Senator Dougherty?

SENATOR DOUGHERTY: ii!

Page..vloeyy get somebody over here. .

; 'PRESIDING QFFICER: (QCBRIEN) , , . .. .

:. . ' . ' , . '. . ' . j

Thank yo'u, Senator Rock. Is chere any objection to bring-ing House Bil1.., ' 'i

' jSENATQR DOUGHERTX:

. tI would like to. e .is there any obl'ection to bringing it i

'(back to the order of second reading for the purpose of offer-

ing an amendment? senator McBroom.. '

jPRESIDING OFFICER: (QIBRIEX) . ''

.

jSenator McRroom. .

SENATOR MCBROOM:

PRESIDING OFFICER: (OCBRIEN). . ' ' ' ' .' . Senator Dougherty. ' '.' ' ' l

SENATOR DOUGHERTY:.

's been long tn the tradition o'f this body that any 11It. 6member has the. rlaht co call a'bill back from third tg becond

. . - 2.7 - . . .

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. I

reading for the purpose of amending the bill to put it in the

prppçr form b'eTore he calls it to...for passage. I think I I

havè that privilege to amend the bill. Accepting the amend- ')I

ment does not indicate that the bill is going to be accepted

. pin its eutirety.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (ORBRIEN) I

Senatok Mosroom. ' . . ' .. , . ' . . y . , .

. . . .j

SENATOR MCBROOY:

Mr. Chairman and members of the Senate. 1 hesitate to

oblect on this matter. I...as I have said before: I admire

and respect Senator Dougherty. Thfs partfcular measure,

Mr. Presidenty has takea up an inordinate amount of time of

the Senate. I would like to... In only the kindest way, Mr....

Ia only the ktndest wayy Mr. Presideat, f woul; ltke to remind

Senator Dougherty that I don't come in here with bills that

affect the Chtcago School System: the Chicago Library System, l'

$ t'hq Metr,qpolizpn Sanfgary .Distric) aad on and. on and on; and .

1 would suggest and submit that.some of th# Senators from the

Chicago area leave some of these matters alöne downstate.

Thfs measure has beep heard and heard, and I thlnk ft's tfme

we leave our Boards of Supervisors alone and forget this bfll

and 1 do oblect.

PRESIDENT:!

Well, the Chair will rule that a member has'a rigbt to '

pull a bill back for the purpose of offering an amendment.

Hoceverz Senator bougherty, that bfll isn't up quite yet.

Xoulre dowa a ways on the list so welll wait until we get

' there. Senate Bill 890. ls Senator Mccarthy on the floor?

Soae fntervenfna'busïness. T see. Sorrv. House Bill 2373,

' ' .. Senator Mohr. This is on postponed considetation: I believe.

iSENASOR MOIIR : !

' ' Mr. Presidenq. Thts is identical or nearly identical to

. - 2 8 - . ' .. . .

. ' . ' . '

. , . . e.

. . . . .. . j

l . . ()t .

!

Seaator Mccarthy's and I was going to ask that both Senate

- - Bill 890 and House Bill 2373 be...use the same roll calt for '

both bills. They are Data Processing Commissfon bills and '

they're... It's a Commission that is vanted by a11 departments. !

a11 code departments, and I know of no objection.

P R E S I D E 1%1 'r :

Seaator Mccarthy. ' . '

SENATOR MCCARTHY:

What Senator Mohr has said is correcty but the procedure

would be to vote on Senator Mohr's tuo bills and then take a '

roll call on Senate Bill 890. Is that satisfactory, the same

roll call for all three.

SENATOR MOHR:

1 lust have the one bill, that's House Bill 2373.PRESIDENT:

senator Partee. ' j.'

' zprEs: : . . . .

. isExAyoR p

Since this is a commissfod: I feel some obligation to

. explain to the membership that I am in approval of theye '

- commissions because this comaission has a function which is '

completely foreign to and different from any kind of function

that could be structured within an existing committee. Hencez

I think .it is an exception to that general rule, and I am t

oin to support it . ' .. : : .

PRESIDENT:: ' . z ' . ' .h

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Secretary will call the roll. .

SECRETXRV: ' .. . i

Arrington, Baltzy Berning. Bidwill, Bruce, Carpentier,'

. - '

carroll, cherry, chew, clarke, Collins, Coulsoa, Corrse, j' ) '. I

Davidson. Donnewald Dougherty, Egan, Fawell, Gilbert, Graham: .1

Groen, Hally Harris: Horsley, Hynes, Johns, Knuepfer, Knuppel,.

. . ' . . ' .. 'Kozinski, Kusibabs Latheyow, iaughlin, Lyons, McBroom, Mcèarthyy

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!Merritt, Mftchler, Mohr, Xeistein, Newhouse, Nfhill, o'Brien,.

iozinga: Patmex, Partee, Rock, Romano: Rosandery Saperstein:àavickas, saith, soper, sours, swinarski, vadalabene, ualker,

Weaver.

PRESIDENT:

Berning aye. Horsley aye. Graham aye. Johns aye. oêBrien

a'ye. Cherry qye. 0n that question the yeas are 45, the nays

are 2. The bill ts declared passed. 890, Senator Mccarthy.

SENATOR MCCARTHY:

It my understandlng that same roll call applied.

PRESIDENT)

Yesy this roll call applied to b0th bills. I'm advised

by the Secretary. 3560, Senator Rock. House Bill 3560.

SEjATOR ROCK:!

Nes, Mr. President and members the Senate. This is

now the third time ïqe have attenpted call this bill.

would like co move

proper amendment.

ltke offer.

'PRESIDENT:

it .back to second for the purpose,of. a' . . . . ' ' '' . . .-'

Sçnator O'Brlen has an amendment he would

pulled back to second reading for purpose of

amendment. Senator ofBriea offers amendment number Can

you explafn the amendnent, Senator? Just moment.

SENATOR O'BRIEN:

Aaendment number 1.

PRESIDENT:'Just a momeut. That aot amendmeat number This is

amendment number 2, then.

SENATOR O'BRIIN:

Is that a

PRESIDENT:

3560

House amendment?

Let's take If you can get .tbgether

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vith the Secretqry and get this strafghtened out. There is

an amendment on the bill already. If you can get together

vfth the Secretary on that. Eouse Bill 2673, Senator Mccarthy.

SKNATOR MCCARTEY:lYes, Mr. Presfdent. r vould like to have Senator Merritt's

attention because he supports this bill, as does Senator Groen.

Rouse Bill 2673 fs an implementation of the Constitution in

the following amendments to sectfons 47 and 48 of the Illinois

Banking Act. What thfs does is various technical changes in-

volving the collection of the fees from the bank. It provfdes

for more even cash flow fnto Lhe department of...into the

commissioner's office. provides that the commissioner's

offfce shall operate undér general revenues: that the fees

go into general revenue. It also makes another change that

would correct and allow the remodeling that has taken place on

the space in whfch they are now located, and repeals the

section that recuires them to remain in the state capitol. The

bill ts teçhnical in naturç. I trted to give yoiu some of 1t.

Senator Merritt, ff you have aqy explanatfon, kf any member

desires an explanatioa. I urge the support of the members.

PRESIDENT:

there...? Senator Merritt.

SENAIOR MERRITT:

Mr. President, everythiag that Senator Mccarthy has said

is exactly true. This is needed legislation, simply because

a11 of the funds go the general revenue fund anymore

that come out of the examination fees the banks. You would

force that commissfoapry because of the' quarterly payments

on these examinatfon fees, to go to every bank which he regulates

to borrow fuads at the end of the year to carry over until that

last payment coaes in. donft beltevé that is a positibn

they should be ptaced I would certainly urge the members

of' my sfde of the aikle support this.

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PRESIDENT:

- - .Is there further discussion? Senator Mccarthy may close

the discussion. Secretary wfll call the roll.!' SECRETARY:. .

Arringtons Baltz: Bernings Bidwill: Bruce, Carpentfer:

Carroll, Cherry, chewy Clarke, Colltns: coulson. course,

Davidson, Donnewald, Doughertys Egan, Fawell, Gilbert, Graham,

Groenz Hall: Harris, Eorsleyy Hynesy Johns: Knuepfer: Knuppel,

Kosinski, Kusibab, Latherow, Yaughlin, Lyons', McBroom, Mccarthy,

Merritt: Mttchler: Mohr: ieistein, Newhouse, Nihill, QïBrien,. / 'Ozinga, Palmer, Partee, Rock: Romano: Rosander: Sapersteinyll

/Savickass Smith, Soper, Soursy Swinarski, Vadalabene, Walkers

!

Weaver.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (JOHNS)

Bruce aye. Qzinga no. Collins aye. That motion having

received 36 yeas, one nay, is passed, and declared passed.$

' ' . . .' W2' w i 1 l .no w ltio v e ' t o H o u': e B i 1 1' 2 6 l 8 : s e n.a t o r B e t n in' g . ' . Wé i t ' ' ' ' . '

Just a moment: Senator Berning. Senator O'Brien/ has someiquestion hare with the Secretary. Shall we continue?

SENATOR O'BRIEN:

House Bill 3560. There was an amendment number 1 to

House Bill 3560, which is Senator Rockls bill on the required: .

number of signatures for a petition. Ne made a clerical error

yesterday in the amendment that we adoptedy as Senator Clarke

pointed out. We'd like to table that amendn.entwand put in the

proper amendment. I make a motion to table amendment number. ' . j

l to House Bill 3560.' t

PRESIDING OFFICER) (JOHNS)'

House Bill 3560 is returned to the order of second read- . ':

- tfng. A motion by Senator OîBrien to table amendment number 1. l. t' Any oblections? Amendlent is tabled. . . .

. . . . . j

SENATOR O'BRIEN:

I have another amendment I guess you would consider it

amendment number 2. It is the corrected amendment. I just

increases the number of signatures that are required for

state senator and state representative from 200 to 500, for

congressman from 500 to 1000: and it also increases the

number of signatures that are required for.ankbody runn'ing '. . ''' ' ' - ''' ''' . '

under the indepeadent party of the State of Illinois. It does

one other tbing. It takes thè maximun numbe: of signatures

off tbat e,an be submitted by a candidate, at Senator Groenîs

/request. I move for the adoption of amendment number 1./

PRESIDING OFFICER: (JOHNS)

Any discussion? Senator Palmer.'

SENATOR PALMER:

With this auendment there is no maximum at all?

SENATOR O'BRIEN: .

. ' Yes, .sqna,tor. bàlmery thèt is cotrect. Coxrècn.

PRESIDING QFFICER: (JOHHS)

Those tn favor of the adoption of the amendment signify

by saying aye. lhose opposed. The amendment is adopted.

Third readtng. Now Senator Berning, wbat is your pleasure,

Sir. House Bill 2618.

SENATOR BERNING:

Yes, Mr. Preiident. am not just sure where 2618 issbut I have an amendment here that Ifd like to offer

. May I

inquire as to Lhe status of the bill. Is there an amesdmegt

on it?

PRESIDENT:

gr. secrqtary.

SENATJR BERNIXG: '

Then there is, may I take tbe bill back to second

reading for the purp.ose of this amendmeat, and Illk furnish

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ithe leadership on the other side with copies of the ameùdment.. .

'

jThis is in conforéaace witb the req'uest for clarificati'on on' -

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the part of several of the members on b0th sides and I ihink

it meets the inteat.

PRESIDENT:

There is no amendment on the bill. S:nator 3erning offers

amen.d.ment number 1. It's being called back to second reading.

v '

It's on consideration postponed. The bill called back to

second reading. Senator Berntng offers amendment number 1.

l ..' ' A11 ta fâvor of the adoption of the amendment indicate by say-

ing aye. Contrary minded. Awendmenk is adopted. We will

return to your bill a little later, Senator. Senator Rock.

Just a moment. Please. Letfs... There is going to be enough

- 1 copfusion in these last days anyway. Let's.1 !SENATOR ROCK:

was just kinda looking for' an explanation of the

amendment.

YRESIDEST:

Is Senator Berning... is over there. Senator Rock,

'are we ready on yours now.

SENATOR ROCK:

Yes we are.

PRESIDENX)

3560 is brought back to second reading for purposes' of

amendment/ 0h, itîs been taken care of. Alright, we are

ready for passage on'that: then. 3560, Senator Rock.

SENATOR ROCK:

Mr. Presfdent: members of the Senate. House Bi11. 3560 was

introduced gt the request of the Secretary of State's office,

the index division. As you know, with the reapportionmeat,

the reapportionment was drawn along census tract lines not

precfnct lines: so as a result many precincts .have been sflit

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in half or they are replaced. It is extremely difftcult for

the Secretary. of Statefs office and for a11 the county clerks

an: so forth to determine exactly how many signatures are 'ji

requfred, sfnce it fs presently based on a percentage of the 1primary electors. Therefore. House Bill 3560 was.. .

' I

PRESIDENT:

Just a moment. I am not even sure Senator Romano cap .

hear you right now. Please, gentlemen. Senators Grahamy '

Eorsleya Latherow, Representative Burditt. Gentlemen, let's

get some order. That conference right in back of Senator RockI!Senators Cherry, Bernfng, Dougherty, et a1. Please. Senator

Rock.

SENATOR ROCK:

' Thank you, Mr. President. House Bill 3560, as it noW

reads, states that once: and once only, in the first primary

ifollowing a reapportionment, which is the stage we are in(

now: th. ere will be fixed number of stg,natuyes required for l. . .

. jthe offices of Congress and State Senator ând State Represen-. k$tative. Once the new precinct lines have bten established,

. the 1aw will revert back to the normal method of securing one

half percent of the qualified primary electors signatures of

any candidate for the primary. We have been over this a

!couple of times. The bill has been amended. There is no '

maximum number of signatures required and the minimums haves ' )Ifn fact

, been rafsed. A look at the number of sfnnatures .

required throughout the State for the list election : for '. ' . . e' .

the last senatorial electiin, indicates that an avetage of '

. around 2GQ stgnatures was required per district. We have ' .

raised that mipi'mum to 500, and I would ask the lavorable

support of the membership. ' ' i .

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Senatcr Grahax. ' .

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1 SENATOR GRAHAM:

I would-like to ask Senator Rock a question: please.

PkESIDENT:

Senator Rock indicates he'll yield.

SEKATOR GRAHAM:

1 didnlt have time to read thfs fn its entfrety. You

said that after this election we would revert to one half of.t

a percent: olle half one percent; back to the o1d law. And, .

as opposed to the amendment you were offering yesterday, you

only tampered with the vote: as they apply to indepeadent can-

didatesy right?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Rock.

SENATOR ROCK:

am sorry, didnlt understand that question.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Graham. Just a 'mopent. Letbs..l

SENATOR GRAHAM:

1111 get a megaphone, then wonît hâve to wait. The only

change you made was in the numbers as.they a/ply to independent

candidates.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Rock.

SENATOR ROCK:

No Sir: Senatory we chahged...As a matter of

fact, we didnît even want tamper with independent can-

dfdates. They are kind of sui geuerfs breed. What we

doa was we changed... We took the maltmum number of signatures

off each of the three catagories. We raised the minimum of

the Senator an'd the Represqneative and the Conjresshan. Now, in ordçr to accomplish that constitutionally, we also had to':..

take the paximum off the inde.pendent party people, which. we

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did.

PRESIDENT:

Secretary will call the roll. Senator Clarke.

SENATOR CLARKE:

Senator, I just wanted to ask. I had beard that there

was some discussion and disturbance over in the other body

regarding the increase in the... to 500 sigaatures. I doa't

think we want to get ourselves afoul now at this point of time.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Rock.

SENATOR ROCK: .

Senator Clarke: that is correct. talked to Representative

Wolfe this morning. Some of the Republican House members have

indicated that in their judgment 500 is too large a minimum.

I think that ghat Representative Wolfe is going to do: so

long as we can keep this thing moving: that when the bill

goes back over there, he will non concur and we will have a. . . . .

. ' . ' ' . . ' '

conference committee and probably strike a balanc: somewhere

between two and five hundred.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Clarke.

SENATOR CLARKE:

Couldn't we try and reach an agreement so we donlt have

to have a conference committee. 1 donît think there is any

magic in 500. I mean... What would they take? Would 300 be

a1l right?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Rock.

SENATOR ROCK:

7he ptoblem is that Representative Wolfe, who the chi'ef

sponsor of this bill is not sure what they would take, and

a'm noL sure wbat tbey'd takey' and we.have held the bikl now

- 37-

for three days, and I've called it three different times and

there is always some problem with it. I don't kaow whether

we need the bill at ally frankly. Maybe we will scuttle the

whole thing. and 1et the Secretary of State figure it out.

PRESIDENT:

Senator clarke.

SENATOR CLARKE:

Well, but I do think that if there is an indication in

that regard maybe we s'hould ju'st change the âmendmenty makè

it a little more, hopefully, palatable so that we won't have

éto have a eonference committee and they would concur, and 1I

think it would be agreeable.

PRESIDENT:

If the Chair could interject here: this is about the

third or fourth time we have had this bill up. If it1s... If

we are not too far from off, if we can get this bill passed

. .apdqthen have the conferènce comiittee get Eiis .thiag worked'1 think it would be wise if... It's the sense ofout.

body Lo pass something. Senator Roak.

SENATOR ROCK :

Well, as ordfnarily will happen wiLh any piece of legis-

lation that directly affects sitting members, you are probably

going to have difference of opinion anonR the 170 of those

guys and our 58. I donît think... If say 300, what if Jake

Wolfe comes back and tells me aoy thqj vitt onty lo for 250.Then wœ .are rfght back ghere we started. I think we

just implant tbls thing and then let's to work it out.

1... I've got... There's po magic in 5é0 anymore than there is

in 15,000. It doesn't make a bit of difference to me.

PRESIDENT:

Secretary Will call the roll.

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SENATOR YOCK:

' ' '1 would pofnt out that this bas an emergency clau%e. We

need 35 votes.

SECRETARY:'

Arrïngton. Aaltz, :erning, Bidvill Brucea Carpentiery '#

' Caxroll, cherry, Chews Clarke, Collinsy Coulson, Coursûy

. ' Davidson, Donnewald, Dougherty, Egan, Fawelq, Gilberty Grahamy.

Groen: Hall, Harris, Hersley, Hynes, Johns, Knuepfer, Knuppel,

. Kosinski Kusibab, Latherow, Laughlin, Lyonsy McBroom, Mccarthyy

Merritt, Mitchler: Mohr: Neistein, Newhousey Nihill, OlBrieny

/Qzfnga: Palmer, Pareee: Rock, Romano, Rosander, Sapersteinyi

Savickas Smith, Soper, Sours, Swinarski, Vadalabene, Walker,

Weaver.

PRESIDENT:

Ozinga aye. Vadalabene aye. Swinarski aye. Fawell aye. .

On that question the yeas are 48, the nays are 1. The bill is ;

' ' ' d e d 1: re d p a s s e d . s e rta t o r ca r.p e'n t i'.e r :i s re c'o gn t z e d f o r. t IR e ' . .. ' '

purpose of making a motion. '

SENATOR CARPENTIER:

Mr. Presfdent and uembers of the Senatey at this time I

would like to have House Bill 802 rereferred to the Judlcfary

Committee.

PRESIDENT)

A11 tn favor signify by saying aye. Contrary minded.

. 'Motion prevails. Senator Partee.

SENATOR' PARTEE: .

An aanouncement, Mr. President. We are goin'g to take a .

break today from one to three. So, I kould like to 1et you

.. knew n0k so that you çan make whatever plans you might along

those llnes, but we will not be here Vetween one and three

' L da There will be some conferen.ce committees meeting tn .o. y.

the intervenlhg period. . ' .

.- 3 j) ..- ' . ' '

PRESIDENT:

- 2618, Senator... House Bill 2618 on postponed considera-

tfon, Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:

Thank you Mr. President, members of the body. 2618 as

qriginally presented had some difficulties with members of the

body primarily because it seemed to .restrict the right of

the Treasurer to accept deposits from other officers in any-

il inter'vals. The bill has now beenthing less tùan mont y

amended so as to provide tbat daily. weekly, or at most monthly,

the county officer shall deposit with the county Treasurerl

We also provided: as was suggested in committeey that we provide

for supplemental budgets. So far as I know a11 questions hàve

been now answered and I would appreciate a favorable roll call.

PRESIDENT:

Is there any discussion? Secretary will call the roll.

Just a moment. ' Senator Cherry...

SENATOR CHERRY:

I thougbt... Are we acting now on the bill prior amend-

menty or has this bil1...

PRESIDEXT:

This bill has been amended.

SENATOR CRERRY:

Is that the amendment that we just received a few moments

ago, Senator Berning? Can you hold that Senator Berning? 0ur

staff is checking out that amendment and we will be through

with our review in approximately 5 or 10 minutes.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Berning: if you can advise the Chair; thçn 1111...

Wefll continue with'the 11st. 3572, Senator Baltz. House

3572. Senator Baltz.

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sEuxToR BxLTz: 1 !. . . ) ,

. 3572? !I

PRESIDENT: '

That is correct.

' SENATOR BALTZ:' Mr. President aad fellow senators H'ouse Bill 3572 on> I

t the Calendar' and on tbe bill has an appropriation of $8,010.This has been amended. The appropriation has been increased

t to $40 095. The reaèon fcr thts bill is that there were...i c '

Park Forest South and the County of Warren, the Village of

London Mills and the City of Chillicothey through reporting '

l errors of their census .figures. found that money due them!l by tbe State was not forthcomiag. The proper information is

t /1 qow at hand. The bill not only allows the appropriation...

This is not state money. It will be money that has been paid

through error to either a county or a city. It will be de-. l! '1 ' ducted from' the county or city that it was paid to and peturned .p

'

to its rightful community. This is the income tax state/l .

revenue sharing. This legislation, the amendment and the

y ' ' '' approprfatfon authorizes the State to make the proper trans-

fer of fuads from one local government agency to the proper

government agency. If there are any questionsy I will be glad

. to answer them, otherwise I would appreciate a favorable roll

. call.

. PRESIDENT: .

Is there anv discussion? Secr'etary will call the roll.

SECRETARY: ' .

Arrington, Baltz, Berning, Bidwill: Bruce, Carpentier;

' Carroll: Cherry: Chew...' . '. .'. .

. PRESIDENT:.

Senator cherry.

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)SENATOR 'CHERRY)tSenator Battz

, just a question. Why wouldn't this.requested.$amoupt be referred by a claim to the court of claims

. . . if an

error was made? Why do we need to appropriate this money here?

PRESIDENT:

Seaator Baltz.

SENATOR BALTZ: 'j 2 . .. . .. . .

. . , ; .1 denat'or cher/y/the err'or was not actually made by kheseà

lk communities. It was Aade by the information that was sent toli ' the secretary of Statex Paul Pouctt's offiqe, at that time.

It was not transferred to the Departoent of Local Governmental

Affairs. It was a mistake in cpmputing. . or his getting the

proper population figures to the Department and as a result:lI

i they did not send them the amoun: 'of money that was due them.''i ?.1 lThis is the way... that... the simple way that it should be

handled. I can reyd you in detail on each one. It is not very

long, you vould like to have Lhem. It will show you how

it happened. And this just simply authorizes the correction

of the nistake. What ic does, in effect... Municipalities,their population, are deducted from the total populatlon of a

county and then this money fs sent to the municipalities, the

remainiag population, then, is used to compute the amount of

money sent to the county. Now in the case of the Village of

Chillicothe, thls is an oversight by the Secretary of State

in adjusting the census figures. They annexed Korth Ghillicothe

With a population of 2259. 'Thdir origfnal population was 3,054.

i ' 617 properT is then made tbeir adlusted population 5 .

notification was'sent to the Secretary of State as the bill

provides. The Secretary of State's office did not transfer tbis

information. to 'the Depar-tment of Local Governmental Servicas.

Therefore, the county got this extra money where. .. for the

part that used to be unincorporated rather than Villqg'e of

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. 1Chillicothe. This legislation just siaply allows the adminis-

tration to deduct this money: which is in the amount of.i$15,000:I1over a period of several months from the county sharey where

it was wrongfully sents and give it to Chillicothe vhere it

rightfully beloags. This is al1 it does.

' PRESIDENT:

S e rq a t o.r . C h e r r y ; '

SENATOR CHERRY:

Are you saying the'n that we are going to get the moaeyback from the cousty by deductioa for its share, so that tbere

will not be a duplicate paymeat of Khis $8,0007 Is that what

you are telling us?

PRESIDENT:

Senator savickas.

SEXATOR SAVICKAS:

Are we talktng about $8.000, Senator, or $15:0000 You

just mqattoaed.sls,ooo.

PRESIDEN%:

Senator Baltz.

SENATOR BALTZ:

Representative Houlihan introduced this bfll in the House

to take care of just one community, and that was Park Eorest

South, a new community W'ill County and in Representative

Houlihan's district. At the tlme the was introduced, the

ç #Governor s office came to Representative Houlihan and said that

we have three other situations that exfst like this the

State, we want you to amend the billy if you will, and include

the other three. ' This brings the total transfer from 8,000

up to 40,000. Nkw the transfer that goes to South. . , Park

Forest South is $8,0Q0. The County of Warren will get $14,ï09

that was erroneously patd other areas in their county.

ihe village of London Mtlls vill qet .$2,728 aad the ctty of

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Chillicothe will get $15,248. Ihis bill then has a total of'

j$40,095. It' is not an appropriationy it's an authorization !

tortransfer. . '

PRESIDENTI

Secretary will call the roll. . i

SECREIARY:

. .. . Chew: Clarke, Collins, Coulsony Course, Davidson,'

Donnewald: Dougherty: Egans Fawelly Gilbert, Graham: Groen.

Hall, Harris, Horsleyp Hynes: Johns, Knuepfer, Knuppel, Kosinski:

Kusibab: Latherow, Laughlin, Lyons, McBroom. Mccarthy, Merritt, '

Nitchler, Nohr, Neistein, Newhouse Nihilly O'Brieny ozinga. '

Palmer: Partee, Rock: Romano, Rosander: Saperstein, Savickasy!1Smith: Soper, Sours, Swinarski, Vadalabene: Ualkery Weaver.

' PRESIDEXT :

Berning aye. Carpentier aye. Laughlin aye. On that

question the yeas are 41y the nays are none. The bill is

declyrad passed. 2586 Senator Knuppel. . . .. . : .. . . ..: . ; . . . . ' ''

SENATOR 'KNUPPEL: - '

This is a bill on postpon'ed considerat'ion. It ... We

d on ft the other day, there were soue fellows absent ivcte

from the floor. This bill as amended appropriates $20,000.

for engineering and a feasibility atudy on Littlq Coal Creek Y

in Fulton County: which would provide water reservoirs and

. recreational areas if& if proved faasible: and it would later: '

at some other time, if pr.oved feasible, call for an' additional '

appropriation. I think maybe there was some mtsunderstandtng

about ït. I think it is a good bill for these communities '

that are going to require these water supplies lying a little' ' ' '' ' ways.west of Peorfa anm Fulton and Knox Countfe's. I coùld :

. . urge an aflzrmative vote, .

PRESIDENT:1

. Is there ... Senator Knuepfer. i. 9.

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SENATOR KNUEPFER :

-....-- - - . - ' W.e 1 1-a- . i t : q qme d t p me t h a t a 11 o f t h e s e ki n d s o f b i 11 s

we put together in one agreed package at the end of last year.

There were.a whole 1ot of separate bills introduced separately.

'It was, I believe: the suggestion on your side of the aisle, .

Senator, that those a1l ought to be put in one package. That

' z' '' ' ' ' ' ' : ' ka e wa s p a s s e d : t h i s g heh' ' i s 'an unb u d g e t e d i t em and I . . ' '' '. . . . > a c g j . . :.z. ' . . . ..

would urge a no vote.

. PRESIDENT: '

Is there Jurther disèussion? Senator Knuppel may close

the debate.

SENATOR KNUPPEL)

Well it hasn't been doae, so I would just like to move

on and call the roll and see ff ce can save some time that

Way.

PRESIDENT:

: ' . . . . . .1 . . ' . .'Sec/etary Qill calt .the.roll.' - . . ..

Arrington, Baltz: Berning. Bidwill, Bruce: Carpentler:

Carrolly Cherry, Chews Clarke: Collins ...

PRESIDENI:

Senator clarke.

SENATOR CLARKE:

' 'Mr. Presidenty members of the Senate. You know: I just. . . . a ryyzrWant t0 PaSS On a comment that my seatmate here ma e ea

today, th>t this session is the first session, or the session

in which we have seen more bills come back and back and back

than any other. And the lonker we stay in continuous sessiony

the more of that we are going to have apd I kbte no.t . .- .

SECRETARY: '

' . .. colzins, coulson, course, Davidson, oonnewald, Dougherpy,6

. .

'. Ezan. Fawell'. Jilbert. Craham. Groen. Hall. Harr'ii, Borsleyz'

' Hynes, Johnsa Knuepfer, Knuppel, Kosinski, Kusibab, Latberowu

Laughlin, Lyons: McBroom, Mccarthy: Merritt, Mitchler: Mohr,'

jNeistein: Newhouse, Nihill: O'Brien, Ozfnga, Palmer: Partee,

Rock: Romano, Rosander, Saperstein, Savickas, Smith: Sopery

Sours, Swinarski: Vadalabene, Walker, Weaver.

PRESIDENT:

Swinarski aye. Request for a call of' tbe absentees.

1. 1he absentees will be called.

SECRETARY:

l Arrington, Baltz; Berning, Bidwill: Carpentier, Carrolly

1 ':Fawell, Grahamy Harris, Horsley, Hynes: Johnss Knuepfer,

' jLatherow, Laughlin, Merritts Mitchler: Newhouse, 0 Brien:

Ozinga, Sopers Sours, Walker, Weaver.

1 PRESIDENT:i(1 On that question the yeas are 27, the nays are 8. The1

bill having 'failed to receive a constitutional malority is

declared defeated. 2422. House Bill 2422 Senator Knuepfer.j #)

. I SENATOR.KXDEPFER:l -' This is a bill that simply permits s*hool districts, whichl1

have had a referendua and Passed that referendum on a vocational

education program, to enter into joint agreements, either with

the school building commission: with another school district:

or with the State of Illinois, the Illinois Building Authoritys

to construct their buildings. Without this legislation tbey

would have to wait for a period of approximately five yeafs

while the money came in, and from and this money has been

agreed to' at a referendum. They would have to wait for a

period of five years until they collected enough to build a

'building. This simply enables them to contract with one of

tbese agencies to 'have the building built, and than to pay

the buildiqg off over the period period of five years.

I would appreciate a faqzorable roll call. affects two

or thrgq vocational' eduqation pfograms that have already bèen

'... 4 6 -

*

approved by the voters tbis State. there are an questions.

I will be happy io answer them.-.. ...

. )PRESIDENT: 1

Is there any discussion? Secretary will call the roll.

SECRETARY:

Arriagton: Baltz: Beraing, Bidwill. 'Bruce, Carpentier:

. $. . . ., . c a r r o 1, 1 ,' (; h e r r y , c h e w ! . c la %' k. e', . C gsll.iy! s , . c o u 14 0.z) ':: ..C o u r s e ,j . ... . . : t . ' J. . . : '' '. ' . . . n . ' . : . . '' . . . , '' . . . . s . . : .

Davidsony Donnewald, Dougherty, Egan, Fawell, Gilbert, Graham:

1 Groen: Hall: Harris: .Horsley, Hyness Johas: Knuepfer: Knuppelyt ..f '' Kosinski, Kusibab, Latherow: Laughlin ...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Latherow.

SENATOR LATHEROW:

' / Mr. President, I would just like to call your attention

1 p' .to the fact that this is another bill that says they may issue

such bonds without referendum. 1 vote no.

SECRETARY:

Mccarthy: Merritt

PRESIDENT:

Senator Merritt.

SENATOR MERRITT:

Mr. President: there seems to be and members of the

Senate. There seems to be a 1ot of misunderstanding on this.

. This bill I know is important to Senator Knuepfer. It's

important to me in my county where the State has already

provided these funds these area centers, in our particular

Vermilion County, it s the Votax center. Now for them to come

up with their share of the, the matching funds, they can do

over that five year period with a five cent tax, which has' already b'eeu authorized. just means tbis much: They wilt

do the building today. If the future is to be governed by

'the past as far as building costs are concerned:

- 47-

. ' j

' jt! jl ' ' - it

l .- . . . . . e* .

that cheaper today than they will have five years from today.

It just is absolutely ridfculous to think that you could noti ort this type of legislation. I would vote aye. 'supp

SECRETARY:

Mitchler Mohr: Neistein Newhouse Nihill, oîBr'ien,

Ozinga, Palmers Partee, Rock, Romano, Rosander: Saperstein,

' . S av i c k a.é ..'. S m i t h '. ' â'o p ij r . S o u r s . Sw i n a r s k i . V a d à. la b e n e : Wa ).k e r , '

Weaver.

PRESIDENT: '

Senator Cherry.

SENATGR CHERRY:

1 havenft voted on this bfll: buty fn lookfng at it

quicklyy if seems to me that this is another attempt to be

able to give to the School Buildtng Commission the right to

sell schools, or finance schools, which are already builtl' and constructed. I think we debated this issue quite some .t

' ' '' ' t i me 'a g o . : 'A t le a s t t h é m e mb e r s : o'n '. t h i's s .i d e r e f u.à e d ' t o . a c. q e p t . l-. . , . j

that new concept. I think that. what we are doing, the program

and the method and formula that we presentty have l

for school construction is a good one and should not be changed.

I want to vote no on this bill. .

PRESIDENT:

Senater Knuepfer.

. SENATOZ KNUEPFER: ' .

I want t6 vete first ... I want to vote first and explain

' jmy votq and then I would like a call of the absentees. Senatcr ,. @

Cherry: I donît belteve this really fs uhat you are suggesting

it is. Tbis applies to school districts, and if I ean have

tie attentipn of the body because z evtqently did not get a' ' int across. I ... Ihis applies to schoot dfstricts that lpo

have had a ... vocatiohal education school districts that have

. . . had a referendum. Npw th.at referendum.gavp them a tax rate . . . .

' . . ,

- 48- ,

. . ' ' t,. . . '

j

-,- . . ;Iy. .. -j .

'

'! . * .j ' . .i

l .- . u . .1 . .

I

to build a building. That tax rate isn't enough, in oné year,

to construct a building. It takes about five years of applyingj 'that tax rate before they can build a building. Now if you

don't pass thia, here ks vhat happens: The school distrïccs

that have adopted this vocatfonal education princip' would' have to save up the money for the first year, save up the.money for.the second year, the third year and the fourth .

year; and about the end of the fifth year, they would haveI

acquired enough money to finally build the building. So'

)if you don't pass this, you are putting the vocational education

program, whfch the voters have approved, off for ffve whole !

years. If you do pass it: then the school ... then the Voca-'

ltional Education Authority ean contract either with the Illinois:

Building Authority, with the School Commission or with thelocal school distrfct, to pay for this buildfng and do it

right nov. It a11 has been authorized in referendum, it is

. .

. .

.(. ' . not, a. nön-réfk.rendumk . It.ié simpf# # means t; try and 'get the . 1

will of the voters, which has bee'n expressed in my county,S nator Merritt's countya and I don't know ho'w many others toe

,

get this Job doue now rather than waiting year by year to

pile up thts money to construct the building. I vote aye

and I vould ask fer a call of the absentees.

PRESIDENI: ;

Request for a call of the absentees. The absentees will -

be'' calle d .

SECREIARY) ' '

Arrington, Baltz, Chew, Davidson, Groen, Hall, Havris, 'Eynes, Johns, Kosinski, Laughlin, tyons, Mccarthy, Mitchler,

. . Neistein, Newhousez'

Rihisl: O'B/ieny Ozing'a, Palmers Partee, '

Rock, Romano, Saperstein, Savickas: Smith Sours, Swinarski. > . >

Vadalabeae. .

. . .. .

. . jy. . . . . . . . . ' .' . .' . - . P RE.S T. D E N 'r : . . . '' ' . )' . . . '' does Senator Fawell arise? . 1' Seuatör ... For what purpose

il

I

SENATOR FAWELL:

I'd like to explain my vote. think that there a

l .grave misunderstandiag about this bill because you have: in

areas where vocational high schools are going into beingz

you have the different districts who are in a joint agreement

program approved by referendumy a tax levy whlch: as Seaator. . ' . : . .

. . . . : . . % . ' * : . : .. -:')) . knuep.f e r. . ha s. p o ia.ç ètl'. pu't... i s ' .axtptidtd '-.ov*.r 'â. . f iv e yqa+'... :) qr iqd q '.

''' . '.' : . .

' ::

And in a number of areas this has been dones but now the Joint

agreemeat high schoozs who have gone into this program for a

vocational high school find that they can't go ahead and

build a high school unless they were simply to wait for the

five year period to go by when they could' accumulate all the

money because they can levy this tax over a five year period.

A11 that is being authorized in this bill is the power to go

ahead and borrow on the basfs of referendum, whfch is already

passed: so that they can have the money right now to build

that. vocational high school. There's no'othe'r wa'v to do it

and there is full approval and rdferendum by the peopley but

merely a financing technique that is absolutely neces-

sary and without all of these areas that are trying to

use the joint agreement program for the construction of

vocational high school will simply have to sit back and wait

until they can accunulate the money and thus: it is important

in a number of areas tn the State and hope tbose of you who

are not Voting would reconsider because it simply is going

hold back the development of th: loint agreement high school

vecational programs in the State of Illinois. I vote aye.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Kpuepfer'mpves to postpone consideration. A11 in

favor signify by saying aye. contrary minded. The motion '

prevails. 3654, SenaLor Partee.

- 50-

SENATOR PARTEE:

This is a bill known as the Witness Protection

doesn't cost the State one dime. There is an agency known as

the Illinois Law Enforcemeat Commission: whfch agency came

into existence through the long and arduous work of one of our

now departed members of the Senate, Senator Bennetty and the. . . . . 7. . . . . '

I llino i s Law. .' En f ok u e'Ilïert.k c.ohni s s'ik' fr: r% ç q f've's ' f t T:''f,u' n d s 'tbbm'' . ''.' '. w . . .; ,

the federal government pursuant to the Safe Streets Act which

was passed at the federal level some years ago. Now, the

Illinois Law Enforcement Commission apportions the funds that/

receives from the federal government to various 1aw enforce-/

ment agencies throughout the State of Illinois. lhere has been

a crying need in many of our cities, particularly the largesï

metropolitan city in this State, for witness protection. 0ne

of the key facets a successful prosecution is the avail-

abtlity witness, and in many instances witnesses have

ieen .t:'reatened, t:eylve beea cajoled. and, in.some instaaces:

theyfve been killed to prevent 'them from testifying in criminal

cases. So the Tiitness Protaction would permit state's

attorneys to make application for federal fuhds which vould

then be in the posseasion of the Illinois Law Enforcement

Commiaaion to use to either house witnesses or assist them in

It

any

rather important eriminal cases.

some

As I say, would not re-

quire an appropriationr às it èas structured oviginplly tn

the House there was an appropriation and suggested to them

that should be chapged and the money shoutd come from the

Illinois Law Enforcement Commission. We have talked with the

Di re'c to r Bi 1ek there apd''''h'e 'ha s' ab s olut e ly no o bj e.c t i on , and.

, i j this would'.we ve cleared it all the way along the 1 ne an ,

in my opinion, be a very meaningful.piece of legislation which.

at the same time, would help us to make certain that the Safe

Ranner necessary preserve eheir tesclmony

- 51-

Streets Act: as originally structured, and the Illinois Law

Enforcement Commission would be given great impetus in the

suppression of crime and would help us to reach: hopefully:

1aw and order and solicit your vote.

PRESIDENT:

The Secretary will call' the roll.

SECRETARY :... : ' . . '.

.. . . y .Arrington, Baltz, Berning, Bidwillz

Carroll, Cherry: Chewo Clarke, Collinsy

Davidson. Donnewald, Dougherty, Egany Fawell, Gilbert, Graham,' IG

roen: Hall, Harris, Horsleyy Hynes: Johns, Knuepfery Knup e1>

Kosinski: Kusibab: Latherow, Laughliny Lyons, McBroom: Mccarthys

Merritt, Mitchler, Mohr, Neistein, Newhousey Nihill: O'Brien,

Ozinga, Palmer, Parteey Rock: Romano, Rosander, Saperstein,

Coulson: course,

Savickas, Smithy Soper, Sours, Swinarski, Vadalabene: Walker:

Weaver.

PRESIDENT:

Hall aye. On that question the yeas'are 42y the nays are

none. The bill is declared passed. Senator Collinsy House

Bill 1058. Senator Collins.

.SENATOR COLLINS:

This is a

know, I

é 'Senate for àbout wenty-four years, and nok Senator Knuppel has

that responsibility. And this bill was heard in the Agriculture

Committeè and al1 the 'agriculture leaders were for it and' .there wasn't any opposition to And provides that thû

Director shall send a copy of service of process to an applicant

by certified rather than registered mail. A failure to apply

for the license renewal by December 31st of each year reéults

in the forfeiture of right to renewal. bond required of

license must provide that it may be cancelled only upon

departmental bill of agriculture, a'ndy as you

wap Chairman of Agriculture in b0th the House and

- 52-

. . $' I

. #.

. .

. ji

' 1' )

thirty days crfeten notice to the Department. Wows there may. . . y.

be some oblection to this. I think Senator Latherow h:s an1

objection to just one provision in the bill. . I might as well '

be fair about it. He may have something to say, and that'si' a small increase in the fees. otherwise: I think the bill is '

alright. .

. P RE S I DE NT : ' ' . . ' 4 .''' . ' . ' ' . ' . . . . . ' '

,1) Is there any dïscussfon? The Secretary vill call the ro .1SECRETARY: '

Arrington: Baltz, Berning, Bidwill: Bruce, Carpentiers

j Carroll, Cherry, Chew, Clarke, Collins, Coulson: Course, Davidson,Donnewald, Doughertyy Egan, Fawell, Gilbert, Graham, Groen,

l Eall, Harris, Horsley, Hynes, Johnsy Knuepfer, Knuppel: Kosinski:i! /1 Kusibab: Latherowy Laughlin: Lyons: McBroom, Mccarthy: Merritt,

Mitchler, Mohr: Neistein: Newhouse, Nihill, QfBrien: Ozinga:

Palmerz Partee, Rocka Romanoa Rosandegy Sapersteinz Savickas,! .1

' ' ' . Sm i t lR S o p e r , S o'u r s ,. s w i.n a r s k i , ' V a 'd'a l a b en e ', Wa 1ke r , We av e r . ' '( : . .

PRESIDENT:

Kosinski aye. Chew aye. On that question the yeas areJ . '' 37, the nays are 1. The bfll fs declared passed. 331: Senater ,)l ' a

o'Brien. '

SEKATQR O'BRIEN: . '

Yes: èlr. President and members of the Senate. House

' .Bil1 .331 is one that is familiar to a11 of us. This bill has

Vad a pe.culiar backmround. It passed out of the House without' very nuch opposition, came into the Senate, was passed out of

the Senate Elections Committee 16 tg 0. It came to the flpor

of the fenate: where I was handling its and we ran into a 1ot '

' ' of difficulty. There were 'a 1ot of questions that were raised.

' This bill amends the Election tode and provides a procedure

I whereby the permanentiy physically incapacitated voter may votq' ' h h stcian's .affidkvit.. .hts absentee ballot without requiring t e p y

' . ' . - 53- . .

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j s' - - - .. j ,at each election. Mr. President and members of the Senite:

--- rhis' bill' has four amendments currently adopted to tt. ;l

Amendment number 1 was proposed by Senator Graham. Mr. Presfdents!

can I have attention: please? Mr. President, this bill has fourl .'i .

amendments adopted to it. Amendment number 1 was proposed

by Senator Graham, Which wopld fncrease the fine for any1 ' . :. ' . .: : ; . ' ' ' ' ' . . . '' ' '. . ; . '...., . .

. . ..

. .pdystc tan cauaht.'. j.viuk on ïfie ,physzc tari s ar zdavl. .

increased the penalty from $100 to $1000. Amendnent number

2 and 3 were tabled. Ihe other amendment that was adopted was

amendaeat number 4 and this was put on, I believe, by myself

at the request of Senator Sours. This requires that the

physician's affidavit be one which is notarized. Amendment!l larke on the! number 5 was put on at the request of Senator Ctl /1 :er side of the aisle. Ihis would require that the ballotot

that the physically bandicapped voter votes his absentee ballot

on be notartzed. We had wanted to take that off, but in theJ '. .

. . . k'. art of compromise to get a b111 'that uould provfde an oppor-i

- .

l - . . .' tunity for this group of individuals: the permanently physically! . 1h

'

tncapacitated the right to vote, we compromised and allouedJ t' the ballot and accepted an amendment that èould allow the ballot

to be notarized. Anendment number 6 ...

PRESIDENT:

Just a moment. Please, gentlemen. Let's break up some of .

'

these little groups ovér here and get some order.. . '

. SENATOR O'BRIEN: ' .

' Amendment number 6 Was presented by ... I Put On the bill . '

at the request of senator coulson. It had been mentioned that

perhaps this could cause voting irregularitiàs and vote fraud

' ' in areas tvrouzhèut the State of Illinois. This amendment says. . ' %''# ' . ' .

. '

' tha't a disabled voter's identlfication card authorized by this. .1:

) . t! ' sectton shall aot be issued to an elector whose vottng restdence

. .. is in .a f4cflity licenéed under the Nursing Home,.sbeltered

. '' .- 5 i - ' . .' . ' . ' .7' ' '

. ' . .

Care Homes

pll--tyâ---rh it Ihere are four atendments adopted on thfs bfll.A11 four amendments came at the request of Senators on the

other side pf the afsle. Thfs bfll went on postponed con-

sfderation fn June. It had 29 votes. ' It is backed and

I have letters and dfstributed them fn 'June. Itîs backed

by. th.e Muscular Dystrophy Assocfaeipax.-The Dlsabled. Americant - * ' U .. e . . . . œ '

. . . . 1 . . ,

Veterans, The March of Dlmes: Goodwlll Industrlesy The Visiting

Nurses Associatfon, Th'e United Cerebral Palsy Association,

The Multiple Sclerosfs Society: The Easter Seal Society, The/

Nationaî Paraplagfa Foundationy The Chicago Heart Assouiationljand the Congress of Organizations of Physically Handicapped.

Mr. President and members of the Senatey don't know what

else can do in an effort to pass this bill. I think these

people are being disenfranchised by the requirements that the

voting laus now request of them and urge a yes vote on this

a bill.

'RESIDEXT:

or Homes for the Aged Act; so> Mr. President, there

Senator Graham.

SENATOR GRAHAM:

Mr. President and members of the Senate. I compliment

Senator o'Brien on his tenaciousness; also compliment bim ,on

the many hours of vork he's put in on this and I sympathize

with him fgr having received'all of the phone calls he has

received because I've got some of them too. ' shared you f'tom

some of fhos.e ... kejt you away from some of those; but inaddition the fact that this b'ill hasn't been materially

cbanged, hasn't been changed at sfnce lase June 29th, I

think doesnfe remove the entfre oblecelyn of this side of the

aisle. connection with the fact that right now we are

the mtddle of and will, the'first part of December, or the

mtddle part'.of December, we will be rev.iewing.the new Electioa

- 55-

ii. . iCode for the entire State of Illinofs dealing wfth every facet

1.of election. election reaularities. quideliaes and the wholegamete built around the mandate of the new Constitution.

Hopefully, we will be able to do something in the area of

consolidation of elections. I don't think tbat this bill at

this particular time is of that great importance. I don't

tbink ..yha&;.t .vs ..àiTôuj.2':.i,qug 'to. deal with tits part tcular one ..'..).. . ; : .. k '. . , .'

should it be placed on the Statute Books to confuse an already

confusing issue that Ve have four experienced election officials

working with. I think that, tbis one time, tbat if Senator

O'Brien doesn't get more than 29 votes that it will be alright

with me.

PRESIDENT)

Senator O'Brten may close the debate.

SENATOR O'BRIEN:

. In summarizing the occurrences that have transpired withl: the handling of this bill Senator Grabam, I think that everyJ

'

'

l effort has been madq by myself to come up vith p bill thasl

som'e members on the other aisle .. other side of the aisle

can support. And chat you'rey in effect, saying co me and

every physically incapacttated voter in the State of Illinois

fs that. ''Well, you just waft until ce get around to rewriting

the election laws and then we#ll give you the opportunity to

votey but right noë you caa just sft this one butv'' Welly I

think that. thatfs thp wrong attitude to ta.ke and I thini that

a11 the associations that iave endorsed thxs'and a11 of' the

work that has gone into this, Senator, deserves a certainly,

a much better attitude or a diffqrent attiiude from some of

thç members on your side of th: aisley and I request a roll

call.

PRESIDENT:

' 'Secretary ... Senato'r Graham.

. - 5Q-

SENATOR GRAEAM:

Senator O'Brien, I think you purposely missed my point,1 '

and I think you purposely didn't recognize the fact that I

do compliment you for al1 the work you've done on this. You

purposely missed the point when I didn't say they were going

t.o sit around. said that we're going to have an electïonj.' !code and we re going to prefile it and we re going to have

it ready for January. And if you think there is a disinterested

party insofar as Chicago's concerned with the rewriting of

thts election code. check with Stanley Kusper because he's

one of the consultants.

PRESIDENT:

Secretary will call the roll.

SECRETARY:

Arrington: Baltz: Berning, Bidwill, Bruce, Carpentier,

Carroll, Cherry, Chew, Clarke

PRESIDENT:

Senator Clarke.

SENATOR CLARKE:

Mr. President, I'd.just like to shed a little latel ligét

on thiss even if I were favorably disposed to vote for this

bill that oae of our staff members had a call from the Chief%.

of Police of Evanston yesterday saying that a group had called

the police ltation indicating they were going to come out and

Picket Senator Arrington's ho'use. They wanted a permit to do

it. They ver.e told that Senator Arrfngton had nothing to do

'wfth this that he wasnît down ,here. understand

next on the list and certainly wouldnlt vote under that

kind.of pressure even Jf tt were a good bill. I vote no.

SECRETARY:

Collinsa Coulsons Course, Davidsony Donnewald. Dougherty

PRESIDENT:

Seaator Dougherty.

SENATOR DOUGHERTY:

I do not like to disagree with my colleague Senator Graham,

and I know that his opposition is well within his rights and

that it is as he sees tt, and I agree with him that we are

gofng to have a new election code. Hovever: Senator OlBrïen

has worked very hard on this bill: and thts bill is neces-

sary to some ofsthese people who are incapacitated to bave

to go through this rigamarold every time tn order to cast

their ballot when they've ...' some of them will never recover.

1he things that they have are almost termiaal insofar as their

occupation or making a living is concerned. But they bave

the fnvïolate rfght or prfvïlege of votïng and they should

be granted this privilege. Senator O'Brien has done every-

thing reasonably possible to put this bill in workable shape.

think it's a good bill and I would ask the support of every

member of this body. I vote aye.

SEéRETARY;

Egan: Fawell: Gilberty Grahai, Gioen, Hall: Harris,

Horsley, Hynes, Johns, Knuepfer, Knuppely Kosfnskf, Rusfbab,

Eatherowy taughliny Lyons, McBroom, Mccarthy, Merritt, Mitchler,

Mohr: Neistein, Newhouse, Nihill: o'Brien: ozinga ...

PRESIDENT:

Sepator O'Brien.

SENATOR OIBRIEN:

Well, .Mr. President: appears quite evident that every

effort has been made by ékselè: some of the members ùver there

on the Republican aisle, get this bill passed, but yet nobody

is voting for it. Nobody h#s a good reason not to vote for

ft. There have been. made ... There have not been nade any

oblections to tée bill. 0ne individual says we are soing

to rewrite the entire Election Code. The other indfvidual

says that Senator Arrinzton was picketed, so h*'s not going

to vote for can'i understand why they are laying off.

- 5Y-

. . .k . .

Tùere's absolutely nothing wrong with this bill. The only

re4son is that the.y- don't want to provtde the opportunity

for physically incapacttated voters and give them the right

to vote. I vote aye.

SECRETARY:

. . . ozfnga: Palmery Partee, Rock, Romano: Rosander,

.. . esaperstein, Savickas ...

PRESIDENI:

senator savickaé. ' '

SENATOR SAVICKAS:

/I'm appalled at the Republican members in this Legislature.J

First of a1l they refuse, refuse to vote for money for educa-'

. iting handicapped children, now they want to refuse to allow

the handicapped people the privilege of having an easier time

Ito vote. I vote aye for thfs measure.

SECRETARY:

. ' Smith Soper Sours: Swinarski ' Vadalabene Walker ' .. * * @ * y : y y

Weaver. . .

PRESIDENT:

. ' j' Rock ayew Request for a call of tbe absentees. . . (

SEC RETARY 1 '

Arringtony Baltz, Berningy Bidwill, Carpentier, Garroll,

Collins, Coulson, Davidsonj Faszells Gilbert, Griham: Groen,

Hall ... cr. Harrfsf Hersleyy Knuepfer, Latherows Laughlfns '

McBroom; Merritty Mituhler Mohrs Newhouse: Ozingaz Soper,#

. Sours: Walker: Weaver.

P RE S ID ENT' : ' '

0n that question the yeas are 27y the nays are 4. The '

. ' bill having failed to receive a constitutional majority is' declarkd deteated. 1 understand 2422, Senator Knuepfery is

' now ready for passage. senator Knuepfer. No. no. I1m sorry.. . I

' I'm getting di'fferent signals here. . 3693, Senator Harris. '' '

. 3690 and 3691, can they be consid'ered on one roll call, Sènator?

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SENATOR HARRIS: .

- - - - - - 7-...:J. . - . , . .-Yàs, #Xu dàn as far as I m concerned. .1

PRESIDENT:

, . Is there oblection to that? Leave is granted.( '

' SENATOR HARRIS:

. ' Yes, these twb bills are essenttal in order for us to'

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' . ' qualify for federal funds to implement this Illinois Rehabili-

tation Corporation. It is funded ... I must apologize. I! . .1. don't have my file here. I think it is a 60Z federal contri-l

. .

button and tbis is emergency legislation. I know that there

have been lengthy discussions between the department representa-

tive, Dick Davidson, and the staff representative of the other

t side. They are important administration bills and I know ofl /(

,no opposition. They are merely implementing bills in order

to qualify for this federal inflow of funds.

J PRESIDENT:y . . * ' . . .

s' tor Knuppel. 'ï . e n a . .-. jj .. . . . ,. SENATOR KNDPPEL:1

Well, lfter the way the Republican side has been actingI . .J

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this moraing, ITd like to tell my people that they ought notl ' .

to vote for this, but this is 'too important a bill because

the state of Illinois will losç about eight hundred and some

thousand dollars. I'm going to tell my people that they. (

shouldvvote for it even though ve havenït gotEeq a vote on

' aaythtng reasonable over there this morning. Most of'all ' '

' the O'Bçien bill. 1 don't know what happened, but you people' y .over there are noc looking at the bill'. You don t give a '

damn about the people on this side and we ought to feel the' '' '

'k here, bu't I say this is a good bill and'we. ' fsame way o er

' should support it.

'. PRESIDENT: . . ' )

Secretary will çall the roll. ' ' .' . j

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SECRETARY:

Arrington: Baltz: Berning: Bidwill: Brucey Carpentier,

r 'Carroll, Cberry, Chew, Clarke, Collins, Coulson: Course,

Davidsons Donnewald, Dougherty: Egan: Fawell, Gilbert, Graham,

Groen, Hall, Harrisy Horsley, Hynes, Johhsz Knuepfer, Knuppel,

Kosinski, Kusibabz Latherow: Laughliny Lyons: McBroom, Mccarthy,

. ' .

yu . ' 'vderritt, Mitchlery Mohr, Neistein, Newhouse, Nihill: 0 Brien:

Ozinga, Palmer: Parteez Rock, Romano, Rosander, Saperstein,

Savickas, Smithy Soper'. Sours, Swinarski, Vadalabene, Walkery

Weaver.

PRESIDENT:

Horsley aye. O'Brien aye. Cherry aye. Nihill aye.

Saperstein aye. Romano aye. Berning aye. Palmer aye. 0n

that question the yeas are 39, the nays are none. The bills

are declared passed. 808, Senator Lyons. House Bill 808

on postponed consideration.

SENATOR LYONS:

This bill is on postponed consideration and it is a

bill that would have the effect of making permanent a license

plate registration. And the purpose of the billy which is

supported by numerous organizations including a11 the police

associations, the Polish National Alliance, the Better Govern-

ment Association, Lhe League of Women Votersz and numerous

othersa Veteranls Organizations. The purpose of the bill is

to uake more ascertainable and more meaningful the system bf

license plate i'dentification which, at the moment, contains'

many defects largely due to the free transferabilfty of lfcense

Plate registration. This would make it permanent. As said

the last çime when the bill was up: when it waé h'eard çhe

first timez any doubt as to the inhibition of the practice

of reassignment has beén removed from the bill because it

specifically recites now that the p'ractice, the practice Of.

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reassignment is to be continued. And I think everybody here

has a pretty 'good idea of what the bill does and would ask

for/the support of the meabersbip and a favorable roll call.

FRESIDENT:

Senator Neistein.

SENATOR NEISTEIN:

Seaator Lyons, can you tell me the urgency of thfs

bill that we have to consider it the last day of the session

and on a special five week session that we came back, or

tomorrow is the last day. can't this b111 hold ti1 next

year or the year after that and then see if we like it at

that poïnt?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Lyons.

SENATOR LYONS:

Well, Senator Nefstein: you gave a longer speech on the

bill.than I did. It has bien'pretty well discussed and what

we ask for now is the roll call vote and the su'pport of the

memb e'r s h t p .

PRESIDENT:

Senator Neisteia.

SENATOR NEISTEIN:

Could you tell me how many votes this bill got last

cime you called you remember?

PRESIDENT)

senator Lyons'.

SENATOR LYONS:

Irll never forget. It got

PRESIDENT:

Senator Carpeniier.

SENATOR CARPENTIER:

Well, we've discussed this btll before. And it still

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has the provistons in there to take away our Land of Lincoln.

Wefre still I'm not completely satisfied that the way

the bill is drafted that, in any shape or form: that we still

wouldn't lpse our reassignment numbers. I think this is a

bad bill. Webve had it for about 10 years now and itfs been

in more ... in the Hizhways Committee in the Senate for years

and years. It has been out tn the Rouse and has been hashed

over. And still find no way that we need a bill such as

this. The surveys frbm othef states tell us' we have the best

system, the most economical system there is in our present

annual license platess And I think this is a bad piece of

legislation and I urge the uembers of the Senaee eo defeat

the bill.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Gilbert.

SENATOR GILBERT:t

't the main r'éason that the police .tSeiatoy Lyons, isn

the Protective Police Association and all are in favor of

this ks because of the de'cal that on the car? i

PRESIDENT:

Senator Lyons.

SENATOR LYOXS:

That a large part of it because the fact that

ts so easy to steal a license plate or lust lose one. Onei fion 'of the features of this bill is that it makes identif ca

more easy and it makes the registration system more meaningful,j 'because the plate doesn t match decal: any policeman

can tell that there's something wrong.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Gilbert.

iSENATOR GILBERT:Can't we qo thag and just separate legtslatioaqqn !

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- that type of thing similar to the fact that we get the motor

fuql local vehicle tax each year. We donêt use

i b h t We get it each year. It seèms tot e same num er on t a .

me that the decal could be put on whether you had this bill

or not.

PRESIDENT:

'Senator Lyons.

SENATOR LYONS)

Well'it could be, certainly. If the Secretary of State

wanted to do it, he can, I suppose, issue a decal with each

plate: but what this bill does is make the registration per-

manent and require the display of the decal as well as the

plate.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Chew.

SEXATOR CHEW:

Mr. President, thereîs been ,some misleading facts.on

here. I ha've talked to representatives Jf the Secretary of

State's office and I have been assured by'these representatives

that no one will lose a reassignment. The plates that'you

have at the time that thts goes into effect are the plates!

that you will keep for three years. Now if one wants new

assigned plate newly assigned plate to his it can

get that and confinue with that because ge will be deating

with dates of the month and the decal. :ow I talked to some

pqmbers of the Chicago Police Department in high pusitions,

and théy are not opposed to this bill. Ihere was some op-

position from the Secretary of Statefs office when the bill

was first proposed, and he, at that poïnt, thou'ght that there

would be some condusion oa reassigkment, but that the opposition

that Senator Carpentier had and he expressed it in the Committeey

.and if there were no reassignment riûhts. uould be asainst

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the bill also. But having been assured that there are means'

#of gçassignment: and Senator Carpentier doesn t want to lose

number three and I don't want to lose number 377. I think

we both chqrish'those numbers. And then agafn, Mr. Presfdent:

tt does have a provision in the bill whereby you can pay for

a three year plate at the tine that you are making your first

purpose, if this bill becomes law, and that gfves the State

an additional two years for investment purposes of that money

thatîs paid in advancé to prozuce a great inkerest which, in

a sense, would keep us from going broke: as the Governor has

/said. And there is an economy fautor in it. You only have/

to get your decal once a year and uhat decal eould indfcate

that the plate that's on your automobile is a valid plate.

And it's a great help to the various police departments to be

able to know for three years that John Jones has the same

license plate. And honestly I think itîs an excellent bill.

h h ' h t have this 1aw and they have madeT ere are ot er states t a :

no loud outcry on the reassignment feature of it. The re-

assignment â prtvilege that I am assùred now that will

remafn fn effect and thfs n'ew la5z, lf ft becones law, would

not effect it where it would be detrimental to those people

in the State that are concerned about reassignment. so I

would ask a favorable vote on the bill.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Soper. Motion for the previous questton. A1l

in favbr signify by saying aye. Contrary minded. Motion

pyevails. Secretary wili call the roll, or Senator Lyons may

close the debate.

SENATOR LYONS:

Mr. President and members: don't know that there's

anything that I could add to what's already been sa'id. The

motiom to terminate debate has prevailed and I don't want to

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drag the discussion out. think everybody knows what the'

j 'bill does. 1 think everybody knows what the intent behind the

bill is. Senator chew very forcefully nade some of the points

that I would have made, and I ask for a favorable roll call.

PRESIDENT:

The Secretary will call the roll.

SECRETARY:

Arrington, Baltz

PRESIDEXT:

Senator Baltz.

SENATOR BALTZ:

think this bill has some good features. didn't get

a chance to ask a couple questions that probably still

codfuselme. Number one, seem to be assured now that I will

be able to hold my Senate number 41 license plate for three

years regardless of what the outcome of the election might

be next year ïn my district. That's a desirable feature.

It re ..., you know, kind of'comforting: l'ike having pipe tn

your mouth. Tha other thing that I wondered about that was

more a serfous veïn. don't thfnk I've ever traded auto-

mobiles exactly at the time a new plate came out: and I would

assume there would have to be some provision made for making

ft fllegal for me to leave the decal cn my old automobile; and

then don't know what the provis.ion in the bill is that would

secure an identical decal for that license plate of'mine

that I'm transferrfng to new automobfle. This there may

some bugs in this legislation that still have to be worked

out: and am going to vote present at this time.

.SECRETARY:' '

.. ..'Berning.s Bidwflly Bruce: Carpentier, Carroll, Cherry:

Chew, Clarke, Collins, Coulson, Course, Davidson , Donnewald,

Dougherey, Egan, Fawell, Gilbert, Grahams Groen, Hally Hirris:

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i$Horsley: Hynes, Johns, Knuepfer, Knuppel, Kosinskfs Kusibab:

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atherow: Laughlias Lyons, McBroom, Mccarthy: Merritty d2

Mitchler, Mohr: Neistein, Newhousey Nihill :

PRESIDENT:

Senator Nîhill.'

SENATOR NIHILL:

X P ident and Senators this bill in my estimationr. reS , y! .is a good bill. I wonder what Senator Baltz is worrying about

holding his number. Hi said he may not be back here.

wouldn't feel too much worried about it. It might be true,

but nevertheless. wNem you can go along and the police start

to come to the front of your car and the back of your car and

check your number, and I understand the decal is on there,j '

whep you sell your car, shaved off. You cannot get

rid of your car, sell your car unless it is taken off.

believe itîs good bill and I'd like to see this passed.ll'

. . ; v o t é a y e .

l SECRETARY:1!

O'Brien, Uzinga, Palmer, Partee, Rock, Romano,

Rosander: Saperstein, Savicka's: Smith, Sopery 'sours, Swinarski,

Vadalabene, Walker, Weaver.

PRESIDENT:

Johns aye.. Rock aye. Lyons aye. O'Brien aye. For

what purpose doe.s. S'enator Lyons arise?

SENATOR LYONS:

Call the absenteesy Mr. President.

PRESIDEKT:

Request for a call of the absent'ees. ' The absentees

will be called.

SECRiTARY:

Arrington, Bidwill, Carroll, Clarke, Collins

Coulson, Davidsony. Fawell: Groen: Harri'sy' Laughlino McBfoom,

Mitchler, Mohr: Nevhouse, ozinga, Soper, Sours, Walker: Weaver.

PRESIDENT:

For what purpose does Senator Lyons arise?

SENATOR LYONS:'

I ove to po stpone cons iderat ion Mr . Pres ident .71 y

PRESIDENT:

The ... the You can't ..'. Thgt motion is not in

order, Senator Lyons.

SENATOR LYONS:

Alright.

PRESIDENT:

But it was a good try anyway, Senator. On that question

the yeas are 28: the nays are, g. The bill having failed to

receive a constitutional majority is declared defeated. Senator

Partee moves that the Senate stands in recess until o'clock.

A11 in favor signify by saying aye. contrary minded..

.% J. -q J. J. âPRESIDENT:

. '

Is there's Senator Collins. Senator Collins, 2712.

We'lre ready to move on. 2712.

SENAIOR COLLINS:

This is aqother bill: departmental bill of agriculture.

It went Lhrough the House unaninously and through the House

committxe and also through the Senate Agricultur'al Committee,

and I think it's a good bill ...

PRESIDENT:

Just a monent. Let's have some order. Would you ring

the bell again therey becau'se we If you donît have en.ough

votbsyqwebll just pull it'out of the record here: Senator: but

I think odca we start: theyfll start coming. Senator Merritt.

SENATOR MERRITT :

Mr. Pfesidenc, are we on.somewhere now? you'li

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k:.r thzs moratng vhen ve sad a resolutzon sn thereremem

' . 1.. i ibecause of one of oux eolleagues being off the ftoor.'

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That colleague ts not on the floor right now, Senator.

SKNATOR MERRITT:

Alrtght', 'we'ïk-get back to tt later. '

PRESIDENT;! '>$ '' You reKind me as soon as youv..senator Collins mayL

proceed. '

SENATOR COLLINS:

Mr. President, I dontt believe we have enough here.

l PRESIDENT:! /$

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'1, E think you can go ahead. Wef11...If you don't, we'll

pull it out of the record.

p SENATOR COLLTNS:1 . ,

i Okay. Alright. . That's fair enought Roll call. I- . . '/! ' think everybody understands this bill.

' ' PRESYDENT: 'J';.'

;he Secretary will call the roll.

SECRETARY:

Arrington, Baltzy Berning, Bidwill, Bruce, Carpentier,

Carroll, Cherryo Chewy Clarkey Collins, Coulson, Course,

' Davidson, Donnewald Doughérty, Egan, Fawell, Gilbert, Graham,

'' G Hall Harris Horsley Hybnes Johns Knuepfer Knufpelroeny y : , : , , ,

Kosinskf, Kusibab, Latheroxz Laughlin, Lydns. McBroom,

Mccarthy, Xerritty Mitchlers Mqhr: Neistein, Newhouse. Nihilly

. O.lBrien? Ozfnga, Palmery Partee; Rock, Romano. Rosandery.' Sa erstein Sfvickas -swith Soger Sours 'Swinarski 'P :,

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Vadalabene.

! . .P RE S.IDENT : ' .

Fawell aye. Coullon aye. Lyons aye. Carroll aye. ' ön '

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that questton the'yeas are 37. the nays are none. The btll

is declared passed. Is Senator Eall here? Senator Dougherty.

493. Wf11 that be a matter of controversy?

SENATOR DOUGEERTY:

Well, ;tm afraid there wight be one objection to it, Sir,

, but I vould hope to think there wquldn't be too much. controvprsy.

l Tell Daybe I...could I amend it and 1111 call it ba'ck to the

l. order of third...second reading, offer an amendment and thenl .

k :. wait untfl the opposition might develop.

PRESIDENT:

Alright.

SENATOR DOUGEERTY :i

I vould ask the...request that the vote bf which amend-ment number rzas adopted be reconsidered for the purpose

of strfkfng amendment number, or tabling amendment number

li;

PRESIDENT:lThe motioa is to reconsider the vote by which amendment

number 1 was adopted. Al1 in favor signify by saying aye.

Contrary Dtnded. 7he =otion...

SENATOR DOLTGHERTY:

Nou, I have here amendment number 2.

PRESIDENT:

The motion is. secondly. to table amendmant number 1.

A11 in favor signify by saying aye. Contrary minded.

SENATOR POVGHERTY:

Here is amendment number

PXESIDENT:

Can you Kxplain the 'amendment Senator?

SENATOR PPL'GHERTY:

w111 exRlain, it is clarifying language: Siry if

. . have my aoc'e here'on it. .It provides, changes the name

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' ùf'éôm fackltty to tnstitution; it deletes the qualfficitfons

!of the members of the authority; provides for public peetings;. .....- . - . < - '...= ., . .. .. .. ... . . . .,

:it authorizes the authority must make an application.v'.must

subxft the application to the Co=prehensfve Realth Planning

Agency; and it provides that the coupon bonds or note...this

is on the bond houses; but the most significant thing it

does it provides that. no building or facility om institutiona1 .., .

call ft vhat you wfll, will be provided for thè use of

l .i reltgfous vorship or sectarian denominations of any sort;l

and it also provfdes that the full faith or credie of the

state or any other division of governaent is not obligated.

I would ask favorable consideration of the amendment.

i PRESIDENT:. t'k A1l in favor signify by saying aye. Contrary minded.

The amendment is...

SENATOR DOUGHERTY':

' P.u t i't ' b a ck' 'on t he ' q r d e r o f ' t h f.r d ' r e ad in g an'd I œi 11

wait.

PRESIDENT:

Ri'ght, will be'held there. Senator Merritt. Is

Senator Nerritt on the floor? Senator, you want to go..

you had thfs resolution a noment ago that there was some

controversy on. Do you want the Secretary to read that

now? Resolution introduced ày Senator Merritt.

SECRETARY :

Senate Resolution number 275, introduced by Senator

Merritt. WHEREAS the ideal of service to humanity is

exemplified tn Ehe 'life of our esteemed colleague, Clifford

B. Latherow, fn that he served his country as a Lie'utenant

fn the Unfeed States Navy durfng Norld War II; ié that he

, served his community Q s a member of the board of education

rrow 1946 to 1959 ahd as a meybee of the.couhty board 'from

1951 to 19659 and in that he has faithfully served the

pqople of this State as a member of this body since 19651 and

kEEREAS, Ee has been a Deober of Lodge No, 195, A.F. & A.M.

at Lalarpp siace 1938 and is a member of the Consistory and

other Scottish Rfte bodies at Quincy and Mohammed Temple at

Peorka; and WHEREAS He has been elected by the Supreme

Coupcil of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite.of Freemasonry

to receive its 33rd degree in 1972 which degree is awarded

only for lêoutstandilg contributions to Freemasonry or for

dedicated service to humanity reflecting credit on Free-J

t' thereforey be ft RESPLVED: By the Senate of thefmasonry ;/

Seveaty-seventh General Assembly of the State of Illinofs,

that we commend and congratulate our highly respected friend

and colleague, the Honorable Clifford B. Latherow, on his

attainment of this well-deserved honor; and be it further

XESOLVED: That a suitable copy of thfs resolution be pre-

'sented

PRESIDENT:

t o .'S en a t o r clffford :. Lathqrow.

Senator Merritt.

dENAIOR MERRIIT:

Mr. President and members of the Senate. I don't know

just exactly vhat brought me about to introduce this resolu-

tion, as being a Freenason myself I can well understand thaL

you have to work diligently and.long aad hard within your

lobge and within Masonry to achieve this high honor. I

believe that our esteemed colleague has been way too busy

vfth hfs legislative duties here to partlcipate lodge

much. I question that to some extent and then on top of it

he d1d nothfng but malign me a11 noon 'durfng the lunch hour.

which makes me wonder why I'm doing this, but anyway it is

the hfghest honor in'hlasonçy aad I think we should be proud

. of our esteemdd colleague, Latherow. APPLAUSE..

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FRESIDENT:

' The resolution is adopted. Senator Latherow.

SENATOR LATEEROW:

Velly Mr. Presideat...

PRESIDENT:

Al1 Senators will be shown as sponsoring the resolution.

S ENATOR 'IATHEROW : .' . . . ' ' ..

Mr. President and ue=bers of the Senate, 1...1 guessI ''. about a11 I can say is lthank you'.t

PRESIDENT:1 /t /

In connection wfth resolutions Senator Rock. you have#

'

1a motion?

SENATOR ROCK:1j Tes, Mr. Presfdent and members of the Senate.1' PRESIDENT:

Just a momenty please. Senator Rock.

' .'

SENAiOR AncK:

There is presently residing in the Senate Committee

on Executive House Joint Resolution 103 which in substance,#

'

requests or mandates the Illinois Legislatfve InvestigatingE'

Commfssion to conduct a full investigation of the allegations

concernfng the Cook County Hospital dispute. I have spoken

with Senator Cherry and with Senator Partee and am askingy

at this timey that the Committee on Executfve be discharged

from further consideràtion of this resolutian and that it be

takyn up immediately.

PRESIDENT:

Is there objectioa? h11 in favor of the adbption of

resolution fndicate by saying aye. Contrary m'inded. The

resotution is adopted. Senator Horsley, in connection with...

Is Senator Rorsley on the floor? fenator Horsley wtll be

on the floor fn' a moment. House Resoluiion 55 has t.o be.

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read in full again. The Secretary w111 read the resolution,

for a third ti=e. Eouse Joint Resolution...senate Joint

Resolution, I'm sorry.

SECRETARI:

Resolved by the Senate of the Seventy-seventh General

Assembly of the State of Illinois, the House of Representatives

S: concurring herein. that the.re shall be submitteduto the electors

of this State at the General Election next occurring at least

6 months after the âdoption' of this resolution. a proposition

to amend Sections 5, 6, 10 and 15 of Article 1# and Section

' 2 of Article VItI of the Constitution to read as follows:

Article IV, Section 5 SESSIONS (a) The General Assembly shall

convene on the second Wednesday of January of each odd-

nuobered year, and at no other time except as provided in

paragraph (b) of this Section, and may transact no business

after June 30 of that year' except to act on bills returned

b.y t he .'. (? o v ç. r n'o r ' p.u r s u an t . t o . s e c t t o n' 9 o f . t h i s ' A. r t 4. c le I V . (b )..

The Governor may conven'e the Gàneral Assembly or' the Senate

alone in special session by proclamation stating the

purpose of the session and only bustness encompassed by#

such purpose, together wfth any fmpeachments or conffrmation

of appointoents shall be transacted. Special sessions of

the Ceneral Assembly may also be convened by joint proclamation

of the presfdfng officers of both heuses, issued as provided

by law. (c) Sessions qf each house of the General Assembly

and meetings of committees, loint committees and legislative

commissions shall be open to the public. Sessions and com-

mittee meetings of a house =ay be closed to.the public if

two-tvirds of the members elected to that house determine

that the public interest so requires; and meetings of Joint'

committees and legtsïative commiss.ions may be so closcd tf

tkovthtrds 'of the ='epbers to .each house Ao determine.

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Section 6. ORGANIZATION (a) A majority of the members' ' elected to eacE house constitutes a quorum. (b) on the

' ffrst day of each biennial regular session of the General

Assembly, the Secretary of State shall convene the House !

of Representatives to elect froa its meobership a Speaker

of the Eouse of Representatives as presiding officer, and

the Governor @hall convene the Senate to elect from its . '

Dembership a President of the Sqnate as presiding officer.I1çc1 For purposes of powers. of appointment' conferred by

. thfs Constftutfon, the Minority Leader of eïther house ls a

. -

? lmember of the numerically strongest political party other; !

lthan the party to whfch the Speakdr or the Presfdent belongs,

as the case =ay be. (d) Each house shall determine theI

. rules of its proceedings, judge the elections, returns and

qualifications of its members and choose its officers.:

No me=ber shall be expelled by either house, except by a

. . J . . . v o t e o f . t; kï o -. t h i r d s o f t he m e mb e r s. .e l e c t. e d . t o . . t h a t . h o u s e . '

A xember may be expelled only once for the same offense.

i Each house may punish by imprisonment any person, not a

' émbe r gu 1 lt y o f 'd i s r e s p e c t t o t h e h où s e by d i s' or d e r'ly . 'm ,

or contemptuous behavior in its presence. Imprisonment

shall aot extend beyond twenty-four hours at one time

rnless the parson persfsts fn dfsorderly or contemptuous

C behavior. Section 10. EFFECTIVE DATE 0F LAWS. The

General Assembly shall provide by 1aw for a unfform effective

date for bills passed at a regular session. The General

. Assembly may provide for a different effective date in any

bill passed at a regulàr session. A bill passed at a special

session shall not become effective .prior to July I next .

after its passage unleàs the 'General Assembly by the vote of

' three-ftftha of the àembers electep to each house provides for .. .an earlier effective date'. Sectton .15., ADJOURNMAKI (a) 'When ' '

. . the General 'AsseMbly is in session, neither house without the. . ' - y 5 - '

.J j

E

consent of the other shall adlourn for more than three days

or to a place other than where the two houses are sitting... . - - .- - .= ..&. .... .

R 1 rf either house certffies that a disagreement exists

between the houses as to the tfme for adjourning a session,

tNe Governor =ay adjourn the General Assembly to a time not

later than the first day of the next regular session.

ARTICLE VIII Sectfon 2. STATE FIIkANCE (a) The Governor

shall prepare and submit to the General Assembly at each

regular sessiony at 'a time prescribed by lak, a State

budget for the ensuing fiscal biennium. The budget shall/

set forth the estimated batance of funds available for apyro-

priation at the beginning of the fiscal bienniumy the est -

mated receipts and a plan for expenditures and o'bligations.

during the ffscal biennium of every departnent, authority,

public corporation and quasi-public corporation of the

State, every State college and university, and every otherpublic' 4gency crqàted bv the State. bùt not of units'of.local

- 1 tg o v e rnme n t o r s c h o o 1 d i s t r i c t s . T h e b u d g e t s h a 11 a s o s e

f o r t h t h e i n d e b t e d n e s s a n d c o n t i n g e n t 1 i a b i 1. i t i e s o f t h e

State and such other information as may be required by lav.

Froposed expenditures shall not exceed funds estinated to

be available for the fiscal biennfum as shown in the budget.

(b) The General Assembly by law shall make appropriatiop

for a1l expenditures of public funds by the State. Appro-

priaiions for a fiscal'biennium shall not exceed funds

estfmated by the General Assembly Yo be available during

that biennium.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Horsley.

SENATOR HORSLEY:

Mr. Presfdent a;d members of the Senate. We dfscussed

'th.f # mâ t t er d u f t e a t le n q t 14 'y e s t e r d ay an d S e n'at q) r ' Lyon's:

- 76-

( ' ei' .

. 1

rightfully pointed out that thç matter had to be read$thxee ti=es in full before passage. And for thàt reason, the

iDatter vas Postponed yesterday in Order to allow ft t'o be

read the second ttme and the third time today. Now it'sl .

) hopeful that thfs matter can be passe ' now in order to get r

' it over to the Eouse so it can be read a ffrst time there

1 thfs afternoon. And if we are going to be ink session

tomorrov, ft will be read the second. If wefll be there'

sunday, tt wzll be tead then. If not, the matter will be '

held over for third reading in the House, end of March, so

.

that ft vill ktfll be in time to be put on the ballot next1November. I went over a1l the financial figures with you

i yesterday. I put them on your desks. I showed youl ù twis ts costing the state millions and mizlions of1 . ow

dollars in added appropriations, how the number of bills

have gone up fro= 2,000 and some in a two year period to 6,000

'$ . .' . . . .' and :à oine. b ills in the p as.t ..y eae , only . one t iae ,. .at a , c os.t ' .

@ -? ' of over $4 oo0 per bill. Nov youere nok voting' here tpday>

yes or no on this proposition; you're merely voting upon' ;. 'f placfng it upoa the ballot and letting the people make up

' their =inds as to whether they want annual sessions or to

go back to the biennial system where we met once every two

years. Some people are a little bit open, maybe, or pay

attention to some criticism, that may be beeause of the money

. ' ve're now bèfng Paid on these jobs that we should work

: -here everyday; but they re overlooking the fact of the number

of men whq work on the Budgetary Commission wbo work on .

' Aoprooriations. who work on other éommittees, commissions' and b odf es . Like I know one commi t t ee . t hat ' s me t a11 over

u . . . .

. the State here bfnce we#ve been in recess, Senator Znuppel's

! committee on scenic vtvers. nifferent bodfes like that,'

7 ' h l.dinz hearinàs. gives'us tlpe ' .. . thàt qo a11 over the State o ,. ' v . ' ..

. . - 77. . . .' . ' ' . .. . . .. . . . . , , . . .

.

' * . .

' . .

e 1: . . e :

. w. '

jto go to the Tubltc and hear from them and to do a better

u . . $jrb' of legislating than vhen webre right here and we Dake i

everybody came to us. My mail on thfs matter has run about

10 to'l in' favor of going back to the bfennial sessions rather! .: than the annual. I think most of the gentlemen of the press

vfth whom I have talked ftgure this thing is getting to

. ' the f ia s co g t ag./ .''vhen we come up. t o l ik'e '.*e d i d '. ye s t e rday . . .l , . u . . . . . . . . s . . . .

Where we were aoendfng a bill that only passed this body1 .

on october 20, and here we are on Xovember 11th: amending

that same legfslation. Now thfs fs getting to the point

' where the public. does not know what the 1aw is, and I think

the public vould Ouch prefer to go back to the biennialj . .' .i sessionz to what lzefve had in the past. And I think wei

'' j ;l ht to give them the right to vote upon it rather than! loug

' for us to say yea or nay. If we deny them that righty

. they cannot vote on it; if we give them that right byj .J . , . . ' . .' . . ' '' . t hr'e e -.f i f t'ii s vo t e he r e . t o d a.y , t he.n i t .wfJ.1I b e . up t.o th.è ' . .

/ ' publfc to deterwine their future. So I-sincerely hope thatl

you will give a tbree-fifths vote here today on this mafter. '' ;f FRESIDENT; '

Senator Lyons.

SENATOR LYONS:

Mr. Presidenty I have an inquiry which is not addressed

to the merits of thè bill. Itm just wondering if todly

is the approprtate day to vote on this'fo: the same reayon

that we dtscussed yesterday. The new Constitution says that

the constitutional amendment should be read in full on three I

. ; 'separate days. I know we read..owe read bills by title, but

' . . . ' the mew Constitution permits that in'the dase of bills.

. . ' In the 'case' of conititutional anendmentsy it specifically

! says fn full. And .1 donet knou that we...you knowy thg .

' ' ' . ' f ' f r s t ' t h e f n t r o d u c t i o n ' d a y m e e t 's' . w i t h t h i L 'r e q u i r e m e n t . .

. . .- 7 J1 .- ' ' . .

e

1Maybe it does) but Just adduce that as 1

. . las a thinn that =ialt foul the vorks up even ff 'the thing

'' ''''' Ye '' )

fs passed, because if somebody introduces a lawsuit and

says that it was...the procedure was not in confolmity with

. '

the new Constitutfon, I really don't know where that leaves

us.

ERESIDENT: ..L

The, the question posed by Senator Lyons I think is

very serfous one. Fe have...

SENATOR LYONS:

This is...this is because its a brand new procedure.

PRESEDENT:

Right.

IENATOR LYoxs:kaeve never operated under the thing before.

PRES IDENT :

' '''l'h e r'e' ' s n'Y q ues t i o n t h e. s e cé nd. a''nd ' th i r d r e ad i.n g .

rt has been read fn full. The question...senator Horsley.

SENATOR HORSLEY:

Senator, ehink it has been read in full and I think

the Journal so recites. And I'm willing to take my chance

with it...that tt has been read and I think the matter is

legally sufficient at this point. The Journal shows that

it has been' read in full three times.

PRàSIDENT:. :.*

Well, since we have no...no court clarification on thisy

if this is satisfactory the sponsor I think we can

g 'P r O C e e .

SENAIOR EORSLEY:.

think soy yea.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Knuepfer.

. 7 :..

*

SENATOR KNUEPCER;

Well Senat'or Eorsley, I vill confess that I used to be'

l

a fan of annual sessions. ' am disenchanted at this joint

fn tf=e by tke annual sessfon. think on...as we're winding

up this fall session, tt is easfer to becoYe even more

disenchanted. Usually the last few days' of any session are

whfch...are the tioe that many legfslators decide this .i . . . . . .

the last ttme theytre ever going to come Yack here again. à

few veeks later, theyfve changed their minds. 1 think it's1 .l ' an awkward tfme to vote on this, because I thlnk there is a

great desire on the part of many, 'after the many frustrations

that wefve had in the last week: to say, ''Yeahy letîs be

done wfth ft and turn tt back the voters and 1et theml

'' J j y

'

put us back on a...on the basis we were before. I canp

only suggest that I think our experience has been too short

at thfs pofnt fn time. I don't knoc chat the requfrementsIl . .are ttce-wise to.get pn the ballot. in Npvenber; I would -l . .

I suspect that we can deal with the problem equally as vell1

next Aprfl. I'm very tedpted 'o vote aye' this, but

do thfnk, in fairness to the framgrs of &he Constitution,

whatever mistakes they may have made, we ought to give them

a lfttle tfme to make sure they are miseakes. I support your

principle. I am not for annual sessions any longer, but 1,

frankly, hesitate to react this early in the game and vote

.on thfs resolutfon.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

Well of courie, this proposed avendment points up the# .

ever-increasfng impact that'the society we live has'on the

General Assembly. There vas a streng dfssentfng opinlon to

go' Lnto an.nual' sessions in'the Constituttonal Convention on

...80=

h

the Legislative Cormtttee. Ij for one, supported the prop-

ogition wifch we had at that tine, vhere under the Attorney

ù e infon we co'uld adlourn from tfme to time' to aeneral s op

day certain, or recess. I feel that a11 the ne> Constitution

does fs f=pose upon the General Assembly the burden of' making!

sure that tt meets each year, and I think, and I said at

that tfmey that'l felt that. the work of the General Assembly

was progresstng satisfactorily under the o1d Constitutioq

and under the Attorhey Generalts opinion and that the

Constitutional Convention was hooked on sloganism: on the

'' term annual sessionsy which had been sold by the teague of

Women Voters and others, belfevfng thfs would cure our

problems. I don't think that going back to where we were is

goîng to cure the problem of the effectiveness of the General

Assembly. In the last 50 years the Ceneral Assembly bas

f a 1 l e n o u t. o f o r b i t w i t h t h e o t h e r t $7 o b r an c h e s o f g o v e r n -

. ' 'men.t . . K'e ' i'.é ,1t6 lönk q.r a 'f i: l 1 p ar tner . wi:i h tkte .Exe cut ive .anqd .

the.court system, the judfclal branch of government. Wetre

held in lower esteem than etther of these others. We have

to find some way to .restore ourselves; otherwise the tripartite

form of gcvernment is going to fail. I don't feel that

annual sessfoa has done anyehfng to fmprcve our image;

I don't think it will do anything improve our tmage. I

thlnk it leads to additional 'bills, larger numbers of Yillsy

and greater expense to the people. I still feely and I know

that there are members of this chamber who snicker when I

say Lhfs, that the only solution, the only solution to our

problem is a unicame'ral Legtslature of about 100 members:

elected from throughout the State, staffed with committees

k h tinuing functiôns of hearing billsw o can carry on t e con( in recass and to brfng back to the body. when it ts convened,

' 'legfslation as thoroughly thoughtJrout, that cap be debated

-.81=

I

. . ' ' ' .

''

l

and consfdered. This busfaess of turnfng loose here fn the

clostng days...ve do xore legislatton about six days,

ithe three concluding days before July 1st and the thèee days

before we adjourn nowy than ve do a11 the rest of the time,4

' #because the btlls havea t been heard, the amendments haven t

been considered, and that's why we come back to amend..

' . ' '

.:.. '. thiàk Ehts is a s t ë'p . . qven thouall 'i t f s @ '..s t ep b a ckward.,

sometfmes you have to back up to go in the right direction.

And I think that thls is one step backwards that we can

take to correct our direction to stop and pause and think#

vhat wedve done. I personally am going to support this

resolution, and when you find and Senator Horsley on the

same side of an issue, it's rather infrequent, but this time

we are. I thfnk he's rfght and I thfnk ft's cosefng :he

people the State of Illinois a 1ot of money. thfnk

read some plqeace where it costs about 92...$292,000 a year.

' I t 1 s Ao f . 1 u s E' o u r é a l ar i e's y btl t ab.o u.t $ 2 9 2 , .0 0.0 p y e gy . t o

support one legislator and his figures come awful close

to this when you figure it up bills. Thts is too ex-

peasive. WeTre talking about taking over two floors of the

State Office Building. Space aeeds for staff and otherwise

and here we have 59 Senators comlng and Legislators.

Tt's one of the.largest General Assemblys in the nation.

Wetre confronted wlth some real problems. I think we should

be responsfble. I thfnk thfs is a step, even though backwarz,

I think it's.a step in the right direction that we can

start over to do the Job we have do.

PRESIDENT:

sénator sours.

SENATDR SOURS:

I'd like to cal'l the attention, Mr. Presideat, the

.. . jj vchanib er to Con s t i tu t i oas as a gener i c term . N orz t. ere s

-. 8 2 -

nothing holy about that, that new Coastttution under which

. we operate. T vould like to call the attention of the chamber

f .to the fact that the origfnal federal Constitution permitted

slavery, and as later as 1854 Chtef Justice Tonnte sustained

slavery throughout the 48 states under that Constitution.

Nov, getting back to aanual session. Annual sesstoas prove

very li.ttle, other than qseleis, perfunctory gyrationsy wedïspense legfslatfon ae retafl rather than wholesale. We'll

part any body's Aaii, we'lt fix anybody's bridge, webtl

restore this road and that creek and a1l that; and that,

to mey is a real travesty. When it comes to the taxpayer

who bas to pay the freight of what we do plus what we get

in coming dovn here. Now, 1et me say sonething about annual

sessions. Senator Knuppel, if they had so much vtrture,

'cannot understand why only Nebraska, which is a very backward

state... What'd I say? I meant unicamerat.w.That's the

ork ly ' s E a t: e in t he Un i o n , o u t '.' o f .'' 5 (j , '' t ha t 'ha s t o l ù r a f q d .

unfcameraly a unicameral legfslature. That goes back to

Senator soul. Wc don 't

need unfcameral and 1'11 tell you why. Two years ago two

bills 'came over from the House that passed 177 to zero, and

they got tvo votes over here. One of them vas Alan Dixon,

the other one was Art McGloon, and the rest your sfde

forsook those bills because they were strictly for the

hfrds. Annual sessfons. Annual sessions. What have we done.

here except dawdle? Welve made a few enemies. Weeve

created a 1ot of newsprinty a11 of which will be borng by

Senator Knuppely you, taxpayer, by your constttuenfs,

by me aad others. N4w is the time to nail this. get it

on the books') 1et the people it; and tell

you: take off vàfuable time to tell my people how

. ndcessaxy it ts. uot so this state cén progper, bpt rather'' . . 2

so ft can survive..

' . gg.

1t

FREGIDENT:

Is tEdro further discussion: Senator Horsley =ay close

the debate.

SENATOQ EORSLEY;

Well Mr. President, in closing I would merely pdint#

out that there is ample protection under this amend=ent

because after June 30th of each odd numbered yearz.we would

co.me back to consider vetoes, amendatory vetoes, and further,

that the legfslative leaders can call a special session

anytime, and the Governor can call a specfal session

anytfme, but then welre limfted only to the purposes of the

call. And that will save millfons of dollars for the

State of Illinois and the taxpayers) and I earnestly urge

that you' votc for this resolution. Thank you.

PRESIDENT:

Secretary will call the roll.

' JEC,RETXRY:.

Arrington, Baltz, Berningy Bidwill Brucey Carpentiery. &

' ' llins éoulson..Carroll, Cherry, Chew, Clarke, Co ,

PRESIDENT:

Senator Collfns:

SENATOR COLLIKS:

Lfke Senator Horslelu I dontt like annual sessfons

where you're going to be in session eight or. nine mopths

out of the year, but for somettme I have felt that because

of the fncreased approprfations and the complex controversfal

budgetary matters, that we should have annual sessions. A

sessfon may be for four months or may be even six months'

la if or genqvral le g f s 1at ivé p rop f) s a l s , and a two mon t s e s s on

for fiscal and budgetary and appropriations; therefore, ï

vote no.

. SECRETARY:

. -84-

:

'

'

!(

'

o m .course, Davidson, Donnewald, Dougherty. Egan, Fawell,

Gt1bert...- .

#RESEDENT: '

Senator Gilbert.

SENATOR GILBERT;

Vith apologfes to State Treasurer Dixon and Minority

'. : Leader Choate: who tried to tell me that annual sesssions

are a mtstake, I vote aye.

SECRETARY: '

Grahamy Groen, Hall, Harris. Eorsley, Hynesp Johns.

Knuepfer, Knuppel...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

I would submit that Nebraska is not a backward state,

but a progressive state; that every province in Canada has

. . . '. . ' . . . .. . ; . adopted.a pnickperal sysfem. ,Th: tontineptal Cpngress.ùhich :

established these great Dnited States was a sfngle body,

legislative body; that a11 of 2he great nations through

hfstory, from the great Grecian and other types of civili-

zatfons were of unicameral nature. Never have we had a

two headed xonster such as we have here. Who ever heard

of a city council like in Chicago or New York being a two

headed legfs'lative body? A county board or .a constitutional '

. ' convention ... ' .

PRESIDENT :

What is your point of order? .

' SàNATOR GRAHAM:

The point of order strfckly is.this, that in this.

' ' resolution there was no provision for us to consider a ''y '

unzcameral legislatuve.

PRESIDENT: . . '

. . . . . . g5. . .

. ' . ' .. -- .: . . l - . . .. .--c ...Lq* .

i . .'' llI1 . 'j . '

The point ia well taken. The Genator will confine. I

htmself f: t1e aanual sesstons progisfon. Senator Knuppel.

r SENATOR KNUPPKL: '

I realtze what's happening and I xas ready to conclude

anyxay. I think I have established my Point; hfstory has

established it. I vote aye.

.SECRETARY : .

.. oKosfnski, Kustbaby Latherow, Laughlin, Lyons, McBroom,

Mccarthy, Merritt.k.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Merritt.

é 'XRITT: 'SENATOR E

Mr. President and members of the Senate. Certainly

. by thfs juncture in this short abbreviated sessfon we ought#

to begfn to see the real boondoggle of the fallacy of annual

kessions. Et's done nothing but bring about requests for

œ' ' . .

' more. moreq more monek when the cupboard is bare and'we . ' ' . '.' .'

knöw it. It gives every pressure group the right to come '

d here ag'ain and put the pressure onvs to spend'more ando>n' Dore. Iêd lfke to see a return to some sanity in spendf'ng '

' and I thfnk that the biennial sessions will do it. I

. Ivote aye. . .

ISECRETARY: i

. :

. . .Mitchler, Mohrz Neisteiny Newhouse, Nihill, OtBrieny.

' .

0 fn a Palmer Partee Rock Rbmano Rosander... 1Z. 8 , > , , ,. . . . ' . . .. . '

PRESIDENT: '

Senator Rosander. .

SENATOR ROSANDER: '

. Mr. Presideat and members of the Illiaois Senate. I .

have for d long tine been a proponent of annual bessions.

1' can recall Nhen I'was a member of the Eouse of Representatives.

' ' '1 v'olunteered. to be a participant of the economy block '>

. . ' - 86- '. * ' * 1 '' ' '

. . - ' . '.e . . .

'--prtmaritr to-reviev-thr-Yadge.t process and to -eliminate the

fMtvand.unnecessary Kxpendftures as applied to

ment. Yes, Etve been for anaual sessions for sometime, but

In.revieyîng the budgetaryvprocess confronted us in the

& ev e) r a 1 y e a r s : .. . '= .. - -'' 'x = -' . .

FRESIDENT:

Just a moment, just moment: Saenator Rosander is entitled

to be heard. Proceed Senator.

SENAIOR ROSANDER)

would appear that rather than having a better under-

t a n d in g o f t h e b u d g e t a r y p r o c e s s an d t 14 e c o s t o f s t a t e /sjovernment that we find ourselves at the...receivfng...withmore introductfons of bills to provide more and more services

for the people of the state of Illinois irrespective of

uhether those services are aeeded or wanted. And for that

very reason I have felt, that at this point juncture,'

: J. o t n g. .t o . c.o s t.. .t h e i'ax p ay e r s' mo r e ,that. .annual s es s ons arq n .

as is pretty much evidenced by the factual sheet that has

been presented to each member of this general body. And

I would certainly agree that the life, liberty, and

property of every citizen of the state of Illinois fs prett#

much fn danger when the General Session is..wwhen the General

Assembly session and that very reason I. >

SKCRETARY:

..s'apersteiny Savickas...

PRESEDENT:

Senator Saperstein.

SECRKTARX:

..smttk...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Saperstèin.

SENATOR SAPERSTEIN:

..- 8 7 -

. * ' w

à . .t ..-

t

I

Mr. President and gentlemen. I have never been an

advocatc 6f annual sessions and some of the points and the

jroBlems that Senator Rorsley presented to us are re'al and

very effectfve. Eovever, t think tkat ve have an obliga-

tion to give it another try. I think we have an obliéationto reffne ft. This has not been the most satisfactory

sessfon, ve al1 agree, but to abandoa it wlthout further

trial: t thtnk would be a miscarriage of the mandate that

the people gave us.' Therefore, I vote no.

SKCRETARY:

. . ..Savîckas...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Savickas.

SENATOR SAVICKAS:

Mr. Prestdent, members of the Senate. I thfnk Senator

Chew vas correct when he tried to put on the amendment to

' '

l.i=it the service bf lgwyers fn the Legislature ro practice,

because it seems today that the only ones speaking for the

passage of this bill and the majority ofvhe voters for it

are lawyers who want to get back home and get back to their

lav practice. They haven't the concern in state government

. that they should have and are more interested in their 1aw

practice. I vote no.

SECRKTARY: . .

. .. .Smith, Soper, Soursb S.wtnarski, Vadalabene, Walker.,

Weaver.

PRESIDENT:

Request for a call of the absentees. The absentee's . .

. . vfll be called. ' . .

SECRETARY:1

Arrlngton, Cherry) Chew, Course, Dougherty, Horsley, 1'

' Johns, Kbsfnski .Lyonsu Mccarthy, Nechouse, Nihtll,'oêBrien, .. '.

. ? .. . .

' . . . . ... 8 8 - . .

Palmer, Parteez Rocky Ro=ano...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Palmer.

SKNATOR PALMER:

I'm gonaa vote no and I want Senator Savickas to know

that am a practfcfag attorney.

SECRETARY;

. . .Smfth, Walker.

PRESIDENT;

For vhat purpose does Senator Eorsley arise?

SENATOR RORSLEY:

am not going to postpone this. I'm going to 1et it

dte. I1m going to let it die. I have been the victim

of broken promises in this Senate; and when'l come to a

time whea gentlemen of this sentiment...this Senate breaks

their uord to me then t want no more this Senate.

S en.a t o r Ch er ry t o ld me to ia t r o d u de t.lli s . He s'ai d y J' I it o t

only wi11 vote for ft, 1'11 actively support it.l' Senator

Partee ma that he would vote for this and he would

support ft. No% Ifm telling the people 1ust...

PRESIDENT:

What is your' point of...what is your point of order

Senator?

SEHATOR PARTEE:

.A pofnt of p/rsonal privilege. Senator, told you

that I would gfve you a vote to get ft out of committee;

that I gave you. You seem be lacking in gratitude

for that, but I,did not tell you I would gfve you a vote on

the floor bf the Senafe. Uet your facts straigbt.. .'... '

. * . 1 ' '

Senator Horsley': in the. ..The chair...>

'

SENAT.OR HORSLEY :

.- 89 '-

J

Senator Partee. I have my facts straight. My ears don't

-hlve any wax tn them. And wben you and Senator Cherry toldI1

me and encouraged we to introduce thisp you said you believed 1!

in tt and. you would support it. You dfdn't lfmft that to

a vote fn coxmfttee and donet tell me you did. Now the '

vtime has come... i

' PRESIDENT: . .

The chatr fs going to rule Senator Rorsley out of order

' here. I 'think...confine yourself to the issue at hand, if... '

SENATOR HORSLEY:

. Alright 1'11 confiae myself to the lssue at hand, an' !the fssue at hand is Lhac Mayor Daley has realized he can't

=ake annual deals to get bills through the Senate and House.

He feels he can get more by milking the downstate's tax-

payers annually than if he only gets theu bi-annually and

that's what's wrong here today. Now let's face the facts as

. ' . . . . ' : ' ' ' ' . y ' . . '. .. they are. Let s tell the'peoplc of this state thek ve

been had in more lzays than one in this session and in the

previous sesston, and I'm not going to 1et this be kept

alive by postponing it. I1m going to 1et this roll call

o i n t J t h e r e c o r d . I w a s n ' t g o i n g t o r u n f o r a n o t h e r t e r m ,

But I think now I'm leaning toward running because I think

Lhis ahd the licensing of professions is one of the greatest

issues facing the people of this state and I think tbey

need some of us to go ou't and campaign and lell them.what

the truth is. .

PRESIDENT: . ' .

on that qubestioa, on that question the yeas are 30y the' ' lays are 12. The reaolution having fkiled t'o receive the '

. necessary two thirds majority...three fifths'majority isI

declared defeated. 2422, Senator Knuepfer. '

. . SENATOR KNUEPFER; ' '. ' ' ' '

. , . 90- ' . :. ë . .. .

é ' J

I'd like leave to bring Senate bfll or Eouse bill 2422

. blck to second reading for the or...to place on àn amendment.

1he a=eadxent fs oa all of your desks. The amendment was

drawn up by Sherwood Dees and the Democratic staff to make

' certain that the language vas gs I said'it was. They feel

tt vfll be better wtth thfs amendment and I would move the

:. adoptfon of a=endment number one. . ' .

PRESIDENT:

Motion for the 'adoptioh of amendment number one. A11

in favor signify by saying aye. Coatrary minded. Does

/' the Secretary have the amendment, Senator?/

SENATOR KNUEPFER:

I brought ft up there. 1111 give him some more if he

doesntt.

PRESIDENT:

We'll get back to it shortly. Just a moment. Gentlemen,

' . . ' .

' . le t'' s ma ih t ain. s ohe o r d #, r . 3.0 6 3., . Saen a to r . Ha.l1 . '. . C an. t.h o's q f . .. '..

two be considered in one roll callj fenator, 3063 and 30642

SENATOR HALL: .

Please. '

PRESIDENT:

Is there objection? Leave is granted. Senator Hall.

SENATOR HALL:

Thank you Mr. President and members of the Senate.

House Bi11 3063 amends the school.code and requires sickle

cell anemfa tests for a11 pupils aj time the regular school

examining physician deems it necessary. It requires the

physicians to report on physical examinations from where

. . . the test was giveny apd it require: the physigian to file a .. . .. J .rejort on' a11 posittve records anè keep one for his own record

and send the other t: the Departmept of Public Health. Now

Rouse Bil1. 3064, sickle cell anemia tests should.be adminiv-

. '

- 91- . . '

tered tf the Kxaxining physician determine such a test to be

'necessary.

PRESIDENTI

Just, lust a Roment. Please. gentlemen. let's settle

.down. Proceed Senator.

SENATOR HALL)

A11 posftive results shall be filed with the examining

physician and the Department of Public Hea1th . Nowy gentlemen,

these bflls are to thwart a' killer, and 1'11 just be brief

and gfve you a review of the facts. Put very sioply./

sickle cell anemia is a blood disease that is bereditary)/

The norma:l red blood cells are round , but sickle cells are

cres cent s haped . As a result they tend to c1o t eas ily and '

they canno t carry enough oxygen to the body . One big

prob 1em with thf s epidemi c is that a pers on can be a

c a r r i e r wk t h c, u t: a c t u a 1 ly h a v f n g t h'e d f s e a s e . B u t i f t w o'e r s ort.s . who . ' c a r ry t h e. s i'c kle. c e 11 t r a i t k hav e a èh'i ld t h eP . . >

chauce i's one fn four that the child will hàve ihe disease

itself. So it's very important that individuals know if

they have this disease or if they're'carriers, and this

can be done vith a simple blood test. If a child is found

to have the disease, he can be treated. There is no cure,

but trqatment can be made and the disease ts less painful.

About one of every ten blacks is a. carrier. About on'e out

of every 500 blacks have the diseasey so testing is important.

This bill is supported by State of Illinofs Departnent of

' Publfc Hea1th, the Illinois Associaçion of the Mentally

Retarded it was editorialized by station WMI. . .WMAQ TV,#UBBM TV, as w&1l as a11 thq other news media throughout

this natton. Gentlemen this ts a killer. We need your

' favorable support. Please gfve me that. .

PRESTDENT:

v92-

1 . ' . . .j *

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1 . . . .

ï . .

1 . .

Y .

rs there any discussion? Senator Favell.

SENATOR JAVELLI

J 'r have Just one questton, Senator Eall. In reference

to thK requfremeat in 3064 in the a=end=ent to the School

Codey v1o pays the costs for these added tests andn .l?ve

very much fn support. I am in sympathy with the billy but

recognfzing thàt this would be, I think, perhaps a costly '. '' '' ''

'

I

A@tter, I lust vondering what, vhat the costs are. And is' this to be taken fr%m the Board of Education: for instance,

the publfc schools in the city of Chtcago from their regular *

budget? I. i

PRESIDENT: .

Senator Hall.

SENATOR RALL;

Ah, Senatory ; dontt have anything on that. I imagine

that the fawilies wfll...Whatever is happening now, I imagine

'.

' . ' ' ' . thâ' t i f th'e . chi.12 th a't'' .. 15'é i ng. 'exaki:L n e d ' ko ùl'd f o l l ö'vz t h e ' ' .

.

' line whatever...l donft hake...I couldnêt actuallysame ,

4nsvzer that question. It'hasn't been brought up to my

knowledge. ''

FRESTDENT:

Senator Fawell. . '

SEKATOR FAWELL; ' i

Well, 1, I think this is important. 1, several days

agoy of eourse, vhen the legislature responded wi'thout any

action in regard to the financial plight of the public

.schools in the city of Chicago...Ah, I think that we, we '

know what the plight is there, they're plannfng on closing

. . .' the.schools for two Eeeks.l understand and if there'é any' . > .*. . ' . , . i

' ' ' ' apprectable costs involved here, T thtnk we have to be EI

very realisttc and lo'ok at it.

' PRESTDKNT: .

. . - 93- . ' ' ' .

Senator Eall.

SyNATOR EXEL:-w I . - - - ... - - - .. .

CI senator ravall, on page 3 of Eouse Btl1 3064, i't says

here kn the parent or guardtan of a clild fs unable to other-

vise secure the famuntzation requtred under thi: section

those tmmunizattons shall be provided by the local Hea1th

Department serving the area in which the child resides, or,

if there fs no local Eealth Department, by the school district

under an agree=ent frith physfcfans lfcensed to practice

mediciae and a1l its branches or under an arrangement with

a voluntary agency.

PRESXDING OFFICER: (Senator Johns)

Roll call.

SECRETARY:

Atrington...

PRESIDING OFFICER ûse'nator Johns)

. Any .f ur ther c (in s i d e.r a t i o n ? A1.r i gh t , .. .e o l 1 'c a 11 . . . :

SECRETARY:

Arrington, Baltz, Berning. Bidrzillu Rruce, Carpentiery

Fawell, Carroll, Cherry, Chek, Clarke, Collins, Coulson,

Course. Davfdson, Donnewald, Dougherty, Egan: Gilbert,

Graham. Groens Hally Harrisz Rorsley, Hynesy Johnsy Knuepfer,

Knuppel, Kosinskty Kusibab Latherow, Laughliny Lyonsy!

McBroo=, Mccarthyy Merritt, Mitchler, Mohr, Neistein, Newhouse,

y . 'Nihitly O Brieny Ozinga: Palmery Partee, Rocky Romano,

Rosander, Sapersteiny Savickas, Smith, Sopery.sours, Swinarski,

Vadalabene, Walker, Weaver.

PRESIDtNG OFFICER: (Senador Johns)

Gilbert aye. Parte'e aye . Lyons aye. .Ha11 aye.

PRESIDENI:

Senator...on th'at.m.on those bills the yeas are 38,

the na'ys' are none. Bflls Senaror nall.

- 9 4 -..

SENATOR EALL;

- -.zz=.'-uMr . P r es rL4p-z)..tf .J-.J .u & :- -wan t.ç d 3: o . t h ank A.h e: semb e r s o f t h i s

body.

PRESIDENT:

2422 senator Knuepfer, Senator Kauepfer on the floor?

2422.

SENATOR KNUEPFER:

1, think no further explainations are necessary.

I will be happy to give them if you want. We added by amend-

Dent the protection that this now applies to, at the most

' 6 school districts, probably 2 school districts. They have

had a referendum. They have voted for the tax rate.

would appreciate a favorable roll call unless somebody has

any questions. I don't want to take the time of this body

further othervrfse.

P RE S I DENT :

. ' ls there any 'dis.dus s i on ? 'Jhe S e c re t aqy *1. 11 'c a11 th e .

roll.

SECRETARY :

Arrington, Baltz, Berning, Bidwill Bruce, Carpentier,#

'

Carroll, Cherry, Chew: Clarkey Collins, Coulson, Course,

Davidson, Donnewald, Dougherty, Egan, Fawell, Gilbert:

Graham, Groen, Hall, Harris, Horsley, Hynes, Jobns, Knuepfer,

Knuppel, Kosiaskty Kusibaby Latherowy Laugh.lin...Laughlin,

Lyons, McBroom, Mccarthyz Merrttty Mitchler, Mohry Nèistein,

Newhouse, Nihfll, O'Brien, Ozinga, Palmer, Partee, Rocky

Romanoy Rosandery Saperstein, Savickas, Smith Sopery Sours,'.#

Swfnarskf Yadalabene, Ualker, Ueaver.. '

PRESXDENT:

.Knuppel no. Eruce aye. Rock aye. Vadalabene aye..;

Swinarski aye. McEroom aye. Ozinga aye. Fawell aye.

Romano aye. Graham aye. Partee 'ayeh' Saperstefn aye.

- 95-

l0n that question tEe yeas the aays The bill is. . . h.

. : dec la r ej--p-;.y s e d . F o < wh#-y-p-p-çpm-s/ .- . . Mqsé.p p . Xy S e n a t o r1

,Groên to reconsider. Motton by Senator Knuepfer to table.'.A11 fn favor of t1e Dotion to table signify by saying aye.

'Cdhtrk/y minded. Motion to table prevails. 1693, Senator

Rock. Can we...have the members in their seats. Senator

Rockz 1693, and are those...

SENAIOR ROCK:

.. .and 1767. 'It's series of 4 bills.'

FRESIDENT:

1767. Can they be considered on

SENATOR ROCK:

1fd like to take 1693 on one

one...ihey cannot.

and then we can

/ h other roll call.tprobably take the other three togec er on an

PRESIDENT:

Afright. 1693. Senator Rock.'SENAIU'R ROCK: .

Yesy Mr. Presfdent and lembers of tNe senaee. see

Senator Sours is here. He had ask me last night to defer

these bills until he did arrive tate today. 1he members of

the Senate wfll recall that late on the evenfng June

30 these bflls uere up for consideration and at the request

of the leadership of b0th sides of the aisle deferred con-

s f d e r a t i o n a t th a t t: i me . 'f he r e i 4 n o q v e s t i o n ' b u t Ho u s e'

j; .. B i 1 1 16 9 3 d o e s w o r k a s ub s t an t i a 1 c h an ;: e i n t e I l l i n o i s

law. As I said at that time and reiterate here any time' ,

we work a substantial chaage Illinois law, there's going

to be some opposition. Eouse Eitl 1693 amends tie Principal

and Income Adt and eltab.lishe's how a' trus'tee's annual. fees

for ordinary services siould be allocated or charged to thefprfncipal and fncoxe of a trust. listorically the assets of

. . ' . .most personal trusts coùsfsted of real estate a.ad fixed fn- .

-.j6-

'

jcome obligations. Consequently most statutes required that

the. trustee's feea for ordinary services be paid by the

lncome taker vho dertved the princfpal benefit of course. I!IIn the

..sin tEa paat two decades... i

PRESIDENT; .

Just, lust a moment Senator. Letês.o.uill Kembers in

be in thefr seats. Those not entitled to the floor, please

leave the floor. Just a momentn .Let's...senators Clarke:

Rosander and Colliné. Sena'tors Carpentier' and Harris.

Pleasey gentlemea. Senator Rock.I

SENATOR ROCK:

Yes: Mr. President, members of the Senate. In the

past few decades we have enacted laws that authorize the

investrent of trust assets in common stocks, so that today

' ft is not uncommon I am advised, to have 60Z of a trust

lassets invested in common stocks. Therefore much of the j#

'

.. . . . .

. ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' . ' '. .

' '. .. ''. . .t rus.t'e e f s d av . t o d af d u i: ie s . t e 1â t e .t é t h e ma n a g e.men t . o.f . .Ehr.' ,

common stock portion of the portfoliosy wlkich Vn large measure

is for 'the benefit of the remainder man, who under our present'

. . . . ,1

1aw pays nothing. With this change in investment policy Ii

we see a dra=atic change in the various state statutes !

dealfng wfth thfs matter of trustee's fees. Of the 36 I

states. having sLatutes on this subject 19 of those states

now allocate the fee between the fncome and the principal

generally pn a fifty-fifty basis. Of the 19 only 4 give the

. trustee broad discretion as to how the charge should be

allocated. On the other hand. the Uniform Principal and '

Income Act charies one half of the trustee's rezular com-. ''''''' i

. ' X e n s a' t f 'o n .' !h/ l3. e t: 11 e r b a s e d . o n. a p e r c e n t a g e () f p r f n c i p a 1 o r l

incöxe, a'nd a11 expeases reasonably incurred for current . '!' 1'

management of princij'al and applicaqion of tncome, to income .. . ' ' . ' ''

and one half to p'rfncfpal. This is the so calle'd mandatory

. - a;.

. . ' . .

half and half rule, xihich is no= fn effect in 11 states

fncluding Caltfornfas Delavare, Michfgany Mississfppi,

Soutk Carolfna, Visconsfn, aad Vyoming. I believe at this

ti=e ft is fair to say that most authorities are uniformly

fn agre'ement that a change fn the lav fs necessary, and

that tkere should be norz an equftable allocatfon of the

trustee's annual fee between income and prtncipal. The

tncome beneficiary...

PRESIDENT:

' Just a moment. Please. We're going to be here for

hile. Wetll be here less long if we can pay attention /av/

to what's gofng on. Senator.

SENATOR ROCL :

Thank you, Mr. President. The income beneficiaryy

as you know, fs more often than not the primary beneficiaryy

the widowythe vidower, or chfldren; and it has been patently' wfafr I vubpit, t'hat. tùè tnc.ome 6eaefièipry''bear the yhplç..tl , . . . .

burden of the fees. While banks and trust comjqnies would

have preferred the uniform 1aw commissionerls recommendation

for a Aandatory 50-50 split with no exceptions, there has

been a sfncere effort made wfth House Bill 1693 to grant

discretion to the trustee to charge a11 of the annual fee to

incopç fn the folloszing circumstances; if the trustee, in his

discretion, feels that it is in the best interest of the trust

estate. And that can be done where.the trust estate con-

ststs Cl) of real estate, (2) of closely held businessy (3)

an agricultural enterprise, or (4) anim' g1s as defined in

sectfon 9 of the Frincipal and Tncome Act. Broad discretion

. only foments disputes between the life tengnt and the re-.

mainder man. This 'stll has received sfgnificant support

' throughout the State' of Illtnots and 1 submit it to you' . .

for your anproval.

.. 9 8-

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. J ' . . . . .

PRESIDKNT:

rs thcre any discussion? Senator Sours.1

. JENATOR SOURS: iIM

r. President and Senators. This bill is probably oneI

of the most important bflls we wfll discuss fn thfs session.

And r tlfnk that a moral decisfon here is not only relevant, '

but also orght to determine the vote. I doh't think we

need to dfscuss the right or wrong of any billy including

ethfcs legislationy'unless ke're willing tö live up to

' vEat's rfght and not whols right. This bill is strictlyllimmoral

. It will be a license to loot. It will be license/

to extract and remove a part 8f the corpus of a trust and

the only basis for it, when we separate the wheat from the

chaff and all the folly-ra and a1l the lingo and al1 the

hokus-pokus, the only basis, lady and gentlemen, is greed.

Just plain g-r-e-e-d. Fgr years, even before the Principal

' and tncömexAdt. of 1941, the annual compensation of a .trustee '

<as a charge solely agafnst income and earnings'of the trust

. unless othemzise directed by the trust indenture or by the

testator's wfll. Nouy this bill changes the rule. This

greedy bfll changes the rule and substitutes a fifty-fifty

allocation of the fee between principal p-a-l and income.

'Unless.- and of course this is the prestidigitation, this is

the slight of hand. ùnless the nature of tie assets...and

that's not defined, and 1 tell you it deftes definition.

Unless the nature of the assets makes it impractical, impracticable,

or fnadvisable...Now listen to this...in the Judgment of the

trustee, in the ludgment of the trustee...: thatls putting ''

.the cat in the canarl bird clgç...to change any part of zhe .

compensation to principaly and then the trustee shall charge .

' ' the part othervfse allocable to pr&ncipal to income. Mr. .. . ' . . . ' :'

. . P.resfdenty'thfs bfll =akes the Judgment of the trustee ' .*

'

' . . '

' ' ' conclusive forever etirnally lrom which there c'an be no ' '' * #

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.

. .- 9 9 '- . . 7

- - -- ap-peérl- It purports to give tke trustee the discretion to

charge all the Jee to fncome; but ff thates the case, why the

bfll? But only then ff the nature of tEe assets makes

advfsable. But the nature of the assets is too narrow a

qualffication. Besides, tt's not defined. Let me pose

some aore than theoretical questions for the lawyer who

practices law. Not the liceased house lavzyer, but the

practfcfng lavyer. Vhat abcut a case chere the control of

a corporatfon fs at 'stake? 'The nature of the assets.

What about a case where tax planning for the income bene-

ficiary is fmportant? The nature of the assets. Letîs

take a rzfdov chose fncome from other sources is adequate

and as an estate planning consideration she would be bettet

served ff al1 tNe expenses were charged to fncome. Wetre

havfng a lfttle...we have some caucus's here. I'd like to

conclude this if I may. Now, Mr. President and Senators,

wha t ab ou t an. o i 1 y'nd . vgas r'oya 1ty ip't er es't . How 'mgny' o f

you practicfng lawyers who are going to support'it on your

side have ever dealt with that kind of shows and action?

Is it real estate or a closely held business interest? The

Illinois Case Law says that it is personal property, whether

you like it or not, ft is personal property. Even though

you are going in the boTcels of land. There are many

attorney..s and Erusteeà as well as beneficiaries who

believe, either rightfully or erroneously: that the trustee

gets paid out income. 0ut of...and the current expense

of a trustee fs out of income. That it shoutd be fully paid

ou't of income. This bfll will force many, many lawyers, if

to redraft mAny, .many wills a'nd

trusts, draft around this ltïtle greed gadgety and that's

an allitaration. Q ay to youy egpensive to clients?

bet cha. The Biaèd 'of Governorts. of the 'State Barz with

. . . . . .. '

; ' . . .

i I! . .j . . . . . . . ' ' -

j '

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Ii

vho. I am not tn contact. voted to oppose this bill. uho

vants ft? ' T1e tvo bfg Chfcago banks, prfmarfly, and nobody

èlse. Now, itts true that other s=aller banks fn our Senate

dfstrfcts have called us on the phone. I had a principal or

a major eAecutiYe Of 0ne Of the state's largest corporabtions

call xe about a ponth ago suggestfng I support thfs bflls

and he's a Doney man. And I asked him if he knew what thel

bill did. Ee said no. Well, I said, Nkhy are you calling mé?l'

Ee said, CBecause I.am on the board of the X bank in Peoria,

and they've asked De to.'' And I think that represents pretty

much the basis of the many, many calls that some of the

Senators have received. Let me say this in closing, and I

lope this bill goes down for keeps because there is nothing

as disillusionfng to an electorate, nothing as disappointing

as to see the element of greed or financial gain enter into '

the decision of a legislature to Pass legislation. Income

. . '.. . . .from..princfpa'l.constanxtly renews. itself. But. when.we .expend. ... .'. .

' tnci al p-a-l every year and once Vtês expended it'sPr P > : ,

' gone foreve/y and ft doesn't produce any 'more income. If

t1e fncome cannot bear the cost of administrationy then the

testator has erred or the settler, in an inter vivos trust.' But it does not make sense to then correct the testator's

miscalculation by destroying a1l the principal, and that is

the destiny of this bill depending upon the term of the

trusty ff it is sufficiently long. Sihce the testator .

granted the prtncipal to another, he obviously: that means

Lhe trustee, he obviously intended the tncome after expenses .

go tb the ltfe tenaat: but only the income. Now future

income is necessarfly lessened since the amount of principal . '

' fs constantly deolfhing, and the only real gainer from '

thfs bfll will be the' trustee. Now some of you may wonder

. . .vhy t am 'up here opposing thisy 'because I have always been

. ' . . . . = '1. n 1 - . ' . .

.

I! . . .

a great fan and a devotee of the free enterprise system.

TEere are'tvo tlfngs. even vith tlat background, that '

JY11l not tolerate. One ts monopoly and the other fs greed. EAnd tlis is one of them. 1111 go straight down the road

for private enterprfse and a free enterprise system unvil I

we get to a fork fn tEe road where there is monopoly on one

slde and.grepd on the other. The only basis, the only basis

for thts bfll fs greed. lnd may E say in closfng, I know

of ao banky truly, even out in the provinces where I come'

from, out in nature's unbroken loveliness. . .l know of no

bank that's hard put. Ihey have a point or tKo or three

in every penny they lend: in every instance. They have so

much money rollfng around that even thefr Junfor executfves

are given automobiles. Now what we're talking about here

is givfng lawyers more work; and ff thfs bfll becomes the

lau, every trust createdy whether it's testamentary or

.. . ' .whether it .s inter vivps, amonj the liviAg, ih thq Aifetite, '.: : .' . . . 2 . . '

wilt have to provide agaiast .this vieiousy greedy provision

that says that Lhe trustee may sit back s'upinely and ac-

quiescently and breathe and still get his full payment forI

services performed or not performed. This bill should be

. defeated.

FRESIDEHT:

s enk t o r Ro c k .

' SENATOR ROCK:

Yes: Mr. Presideat. I think the membership is aware. ' . ' 4.

now, why we decided to defer this late où June 30. There

is, as I said beforpy legitimate opposittonz obviouslyy to

. . , any substantial change in Illinots lavy. in any section of. ' ...... ' '

' . Illinois law. This is, I submit, a s'ubsta'nti'al change.

xt s eems t o me z lowbe-ver y tha t tlte under ly irtg p res ump t i on or

. . y . '. . . . p r em f s e , f f y o u w i 1 1 , o f t he a r g umen t o f t h e S en a o r f r om .

. .. . . . .. 10 2.. ' . .

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! '

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Peorfa kind of assumes the sinister nature of a trustee,

and 1, fof -oae ax not prepared to so assume. The opposition#

kould clafm tkat tkts vf11 allov a trustee to loot the corpus

and deplete tha trust estate. Nov 1' submit to the =embership I

and to you, Mr. Presidenty that the case 1aw has been 'checked

'' in the 19 states whfch have statutes authorizing the charging

of regular trustee's fees to both principal and income, and

no single case was uncovered where the charge was ever '

aade that the trustee had misused this allocation of fee.

A trustee, and I use the word with a capital T trusteey is

only entitled to a reasonable fee for services rendered. If

a trustee does nothing and simply depletes the principal

by fee chargesy ke would not only be not entitled to a

fee, but would be subject, I submit, to a surcharge. The

trust departments are sublect to examination by the Com-

missioner of Banks and in addftfon by the federal bank

'. . . . J' ehaminers in the casç of Batfpnal bankp. The Senatoç men- ' ' '.

tioaed the oi1 and gas interest in an attempty t assuwe,

to garner some support from the downstate' lawyers. He

is awarey as am 1, tha: where royalities are received on an

oi1 or gas lease a portion of the cash received will be

allocated to Rrincipal as a depletion allowance and thus

there will be principal cash readily available. This bill

and the three subsàquent bills have the suppott of tée' '' ' Illtnofs'Banie/s Association. I have passed out the little .

brochure that they have prepared outlining what these bills

do. In addttion, I have received innumerable letters and

. telearams and phone calls. and I would just like to tick' ' ' ' 'off a fev of tkese. The First Nqtional Bank of Pqoria' . ' .= . ' ' .

Commexciat National Bank of P/oria, Ihe Bank of Bkoomington,

the Natfonal Bank of'champaigny 1hc First Bank & Trust Com-' pany of Cairo, The Comme.rcfal Bank of Champaign àgain: The. . : .

. Bank of Decatur, 7he Champafgn National Bank, The Chàmpaign

. . . . ' ..1g g .. . . . .. . . . . . . I

County Bank and Trust, People's Bank. Bloomington, Cftizen's

Natfonal Bank of Decatur, The Ffrst National Bank of Rock

Islaad. TEe Natfonal Bank of Jolfet. The Ffrst Bank & Trust

Compaay o,f Mt. Vernon, The Mtllfkin Natioaal Bank, The

First N:tional Rank & Trust Compaay of Centralia. would

ask for a favoraBle roll call.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Soper.

SENATOR SOPER:

rê= sorryy Mr. President and members of the Senate, but

thought we'd get to talk before Senator Rock concluded

Eis statements. Uould the Senator yleld to a few questions?

PRESIDENT:

He fndfcates he vill.

SENATOR SOPER:

Nowy under this billy if a trust is drawn; then it would

''bq mandatoey upon. the trustee lake.his'fees ouE the

princfpal and out of the interest eqpally. that correct?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Rock.

SENATOR ROCK;

Ihat is correct with the stated exceptions.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Soper.

SKNATOR SOPER:

Now, Senator, at this time, if a testator, or one who

makes a trust, wishes tEat the principal should be left tn

vfolate, and that the fnterest should mafntain the trust:

and that the- .thmt the cost o'f this trust sho'uld oome only

from the interes't on that princtpal that could not be done.;

Ts that correct?

PRESIDENT:

. - 104-

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Senator Rock.

SE#ATOR ROCK:

I assume tEat...Xt says it's a mandatory

allocatîon. That's correct.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Soper.

SENATOR SOPER:

Nowy in otker words, you're going to tell...by enacting

this lawy you're going to take the privilege from the

testator or from the maker of a trust the prfvilege of deter-

miaing how the costs are going to àe allocated. He can do

what you want done on his own initiative, but tf he doesn't

want done what this tells him to doy he must have done

i/f this bill is enacted. Is that true?

PRESIDENT:

!

Ihalf and half

Senator Rock.

SENATOR' ROCK;

Well,

provide whatever

PRXSTDENT:

Senator Soper.

SENATOR SOPER:

think with any trust agreement or will, he can

h e w a n t s .

Now Senator, you safd that

50Z of the cost of mafntaining

hts fees from the principal

would be by law. You couldn't do anything elsey right?

PRESIDENT:

senator Rock.

SENATOR RUCK:

Well, think that would pertaia tzhere the fnstrument

is sflent, but X think if you are ia control of your own

trust you could 'do vhatever you want.

- 105- .

is mandatory to take

this trust the trustee or

and from the interest. That

PRKSIDKNT;

Senator Soper.

SKNATOR SOPEZ:

that's true why do you need the bi117

the trustee cap do...ff the testator can do anythfng that. ' ' . . ' ' ' ' '

. . .

he vants: wiy do you need the bill?

PRESTDENT:

Senator Rock.

SENATOR ROCK:

The bill is submitted so that where the instrument or

the will ts sflent on this point the trustee will fn fact

be able to allocate his fee oue half to principal and one

half to income. He can't do that right now.

fRESIDKNT :y.

Senator Soper.

SENATOR SOPER:

Then

'Now , a11 exis ti.ng t rus t: s wo ul d have

Rewritten?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Rock.

SENATOR ROCK:

Senator Soper, if you look at the bill on page 4, the

amendments made to this section by the amendatory act of

'71 shall apply to services rendered and expenses incurred

after December 31, î71, and shall apply to a11 trusts

including those heretofore or hereafter at any time created

and the limitations contained the first p#ragraph

sectton 16 of this act shgll no: apply to the amendments

ma'de by this section 14.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Soper.

'SENATOR SOPER:

=106-

' j0ne more question. Xow, under the law, a11 the.v.ali the

l' . t

tvusteets fees are taken fro= the interest on the prihcipalof the trust. rs that correctl

PRESIDENT:

Senator Rock.

SENATOR ROCL:

'' From the income, yes sir... ( . . .l PRESIDKNT

:lt senator soper.

.

L' SENATOR SOPER:

' That's from the income. And you say that wtth thist - . . .

1aw that'then the, then the trustee's feés would come fromll the principal and the interest 50 percent each. Is that$

'

h ?#ruel

PRESIDKNT:

Senator Rock.1l

. . ! SENAIOR ,.RocKij 'j . . ' y' That s what we ve been talkiùg about. Yes sir.l! '

PRESIDENT:Ii Senator Soper.

' SENATOR s0PER:

Nowy I never thought in my days that I#d come down here

and I'd find a fat cat bankers bill on that ôther side

the aisle, but this is really a fat cat bankers bill if I

' ever saw one aùd I am ha'ppy to see that we .have some so

called fat cats that we'v'e been called on thts stde of the

aisle and the other side the aisle and I hope that

Senator Nefstein makes his.regular, regular speech about

the fat 'cats and 'proteeting'the.stàte of Illïnois. Thïs ïs

a very bad bill gentlemen.

PRESIDENT:

Senafor Rock may'elose the debate.

SENATOR ROCK:. . 1op.

t

J

Alrtgkt. I submit to the members of the body apd to Mr.

Flçsfdent'fkat thïs bill fs for the fncome beneficiaries

tof trusts x1o have beea bearing heretofore the wholi burden

of a trusteets regular fees. The ultfmate remafnder man,

be tkey charftahle, or relqttves or somebody else has.been? . . . . .

getting the futl benefit of free management of the trust

estate. I suboft that thfs is a most equitable bill and

I ask for your favorable support.

PRESIDENT:

The Secretary will call the roll.

SECRETARY:

Arrtngton, Baltz, Beruingy Bidwilly Bruce, Carpentier,

Carroll, Cherry, Chewy Clarke, Collins, Coulson, Course,

Davidson: Donnewald, Doughertyy Egan..

PRESIDENT:

Senator Egan.

S.ENATOR. EGAN':

Yes Mr. President members of the Senate. This'has.' >

been described as an immoral billy so I feel somewhat

constrained to address myself, before I vote on it, to the

fact that if 1, as an attorney, handle a decedents estate

wherefn the dexedent has willed a farm , let's say in the

.value of a half of milllon dollarsy to a frfend; my feq cqmes

from' the sale of that real estatè not from.its income unless

there is enough income to pay the fee. I d6nît thtnk that's

iomoral. The fee, incidentally, is about $50,000 for an

estate that qize. don't think that's immoral and I

dontt this bill ts immoral and I vote aye.

' SKCXETARY:

.Fawe1l, Gilbert...

PRKSIDENT:

Senator Gflbert.

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SENAIOR GILBERT; .

. - - Well, t1G only vay I know trusts are created fs soxeone1 .*ho creates the trust by written instrument. The man who creates

tEe trusL can designate hov he wants the cost of that trust

estaslished and I do not tNink that the Legislature ouaht

to pass an act which tells him hov it has to be done when

he has that right' to do it aow. If he wishes now to make

ft oae half out of it, he certainly can. There's nothing in

the 1aw to prevent 1t. That's his trust and thates his

desire and I think that this is not good legislation. I

vote n0.

SECRETARY:

.. .craham, Groenz Eall: Earris, Horsley, Rynes, Johns,

Knuepfer, Knuppel, Kosinskiy Kusibaby Latherow, Laughlin,

Lyons, McBroom, Mccarthy, Merrftt...

PRESIDENT:

. . . ' . . . .

' lenator Merrtt t.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .

SENATOR MERRITT: '

Mr. President and members of the Senate. I resent .

sémewhat that 'an organizatfon herez of which...one of the

bank's of which I am a director, fs a member and participates

in and has the audacity to put this out as a feeling of al1

of thefr member banks. To me, ls far as our small little' institution is concerned and I a2 sp'eaking of would not

. .#

'

participate in such an action. id me tt would violate one '

of the Dost sacred positions of a banker. And that is to

. carr/ out the' will of that ipdividual who had the .trust and '

the faith and the confidence in our institution to place '

'that trust there in the first place. I vote no. 'x

'

. .. ' .'

. . . ' .SECRETAâY; ' .

l . .Mitchler? Moir? Neisteiny Xewhouse. Nihilly OtBrien,. ' ozfn'ga, Falmer Partee Rock Romano ' Rosynder Saperstein' '. . > * y >

'

: >

Savfckasa Smith, Soper, Sours, Swinarskf. Vadalabene, Walker, ' .

. . - 109- . . .. . . ' . * !'R ' ' .

Veaver.

PRESIDENT:''

Senator Groen.

SENATOR GROEN:

Mr. Presidenty r have not voted and I desire to eâplaln. ' . J

my vote. I >f11 not reiterate the thfngs which Senator Sours

has said about thfs bill. Everything he safd was true.

Two days ago, xzitk regards to another bill stated that>

'

alaost a11 of my adult lffe since 1939: I believe tt was

or 1938, have been active in the ffeld of banking. As

late as four years ago, my brother: now deceased, was

Fresldent of the Illinois Bankers Association. have been

affilfated with that organization for manyy many years and

X held it in high esteem. And I know the quality of its

product when my borther served as its president. I am

ashaned for the first time in my life, whtch spans good

.. . lonz number.of years that : have been engaged in banking?

I am ashamed to stand here and admit itz If this reflects:

if this reflects the true opinion of the bankers of

State of .rllfnois ahd the banks of this state, the'n I say

to you they better reexamine their own ethics. I don't

believe does. believe this represents the feeling of

their executive council; and do not believe that this

was ever put to a vote of its membership'y because I fqçl

most confident that this had been done this November 1#

release would never have been submitted to you. am

amazed at some of the people who are voting for thts.

Thrse who have :tood on this floor and repeatedly castigated

bankss fat cat bankers and al1 of these accusations. Well

I am telling you right nowy here is one banket who recog-

nf z es here a conf ltc t o f in t er es t and he J. s going t o b e on

t h e r i g h.t s f d e . ' '..JT h f s i s b an ks . S ome b a n k e r s

- 110-

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j'hst

d

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..,.

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'

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' l . . .. .

i

' --' - do vant tkisy but thank God t1e overwhelming majority of

us don't. '-le want to Lo the hoaorable thing. Ve want

bankfng to be an honorable industry and we don't wan't this

kind of consfderatfon. I assure you r'11 contact the asso-

cfation and find out just chat procedure vas followed 'in

the adoption of this memoranduc of the Illinofs Bankers

Association, dated November 1,*.1971. That has been placed on

your desk. I vote no.

PRESIDENT: .

Request for call of the absentees. The absentees

will be called.

SECRETARY :

Arrfngton, Baltzy Bernfng: Rfduill, Carroll, Cherf,

Clarke, Davidson, Fawell, Graham, Johns, Knuepfer, Knuppel,

Mitchlery Newhousey Ozingaz Rock, Walker.

PRESIDENT:

Yotion to postpone consideratioa. A11 in favo'r r

signffy by saying aye. Contrary minded. Motfon to post-

' il 1224 Senaéor Collins.. pone consideration preva s. :

. . SENATOR càcclNs: ' .

Mr. President and members of the Senate. I thought we

had 1224, Mr. .president.

PRESIDENT:

. Not'according to my... .

SENATOR COLLINS: '

I thought we had 1224.

PRESIDENT; .

Wt're checking it. No, not according to my notes nor

the secretary'.. . .

SENATOR COLLINS: '

Welly thfs fs ahother departmental bill of agriculture,

'and ft.-.the, çhe pblecqfvé of the'bill is to ameid the .

. - 111- .

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Act so it requires the Director to serve processes by

.certified =atl, corrects the temainology pertainfng to

lfvestock auction markets, sets forth the procedure for the

fatlure t,o renew a lfcense vithfn the prescrtbed perfod:. I

changes the figuring of a bond fro= 1y000 to 2,000, ratses

the minfmum bond from 5y000 to 6,Q00, raises the present

percentage for figuring a bond over 50,000 f'rom 10V toI

15Z, requfres a 3o-day written notice to the Director prior

to cancellatfon on a' dealeris bond, and redesignates stock-!

' yards divfsfon to packers and stockyards administration,

' II

' adds a new sectfon requiring a dealer...requiring a dealerI

' to =ake an andual and financial report to the Department

and increases a small license fee.

PRESIDENT:

Is there any discussion? The secretary wfll call the

roll. .

. ' '

. S E C RKT Ai.Y : '' ' '' ' . ' ' .' ' ' ' ' .

lrrfngton, Baltz, Berning, Bidwill, Brucey Carpentiery

' Carroll, Cherryy Chew, Clarke, Collins, Coulson, Course,

Davidson, Donnewaldz Dougherty, Egan: Fawell, Gilbert,

Graham, Groen, Eally Rarris, Horsley, Eynes, Johns, Knuepfer,

Knuppel, Kosinskf. Kusibabs Latherowy'Laughliny Lyons,

McBroom, Mccarthy, Merritty Mitchler, Nohr, Neistein; Xewhouse,

Nihill, O'Brlen, Ozinga, Pélmer, Partee, Rock, Romano, Rosander,

' Saperstein, Savickas Smith Soper, Sours, Sginarski,' Vadalabene, (falkery Ueaver.

. PRESIDENI: . '

Senator Eorsley . '

' ' SENATOR EORSLEY: ' .' '

Rov am I recorded? '. .ç

'

'

PRESIDENT: . .

' . In the'affirnptfve. ' '

. . . .y 1 a..

1 ' . '. . ' . . .

' .. * *

. ' j

. . 1!' j,

'

jSENAIOR EORSLKX;

. vell, Mr. President, Itve had time to read this bill

since it vas called, and ;...The reason I read it is because

the other day I recall Senator Latherow got up and took

d fter I read) his uame off of this bill as a co-sponsor, an a

' the bill I asked hi= why and L looked ovir the bfll and I

agree with him. This bill is penalizing the farmers of the

State of rllinois aad trying to make a revenue producing

unit out of the Depdrtment of Agrfculture, rather than ai .i .

'' ltcensing provisfon. Now, when you get to that point, youlre

going to Nurt a 1ot of farmers in the State of Illinois; and

vhen youfre pledged to hold the line and not raise taxes,

I donft see how you can come along with a bill like thisi

) kjnd say you're not ratssng taxes because you are. so after. k

' I've re'ad this bill and studied ity I want to change my

vote from aye to no.j . ' ,. . ' . '

. .i ' ' ' PRES VDEXT ;. ' . ' ' : ' : . . . ' . . .. . ' .' . .i . .. .

) ' senator Rorsley wtll be recorded as vottng ia theneggtivé. For what...senator Collins.

; ' .1. ' S ENA T O R C O L L IL NS : . -

l I might try to answer Senator Eorsley and say that I

believe that sfnce we consider the condition of the treasury

of the State of Illinois, when the farmers expect additional

servtcesythen I think we ought to have an additional...

an increase fn the fees. ' '

. PRESIDEXT: . .

jy '0n t at question the yeas are 30 the nays are 7. The. :

bfll is declared passed. Notion to reconsider.the vote by

. Senatp/ Collins. Motion by Senator Bqrninq to table. A11. . ' .' ' .' '

. in favor of the motioa to table; signffy by saying aye. ..! .j Contrary minded. Moéion to Eable prevails. s...senator

' ' Egany. 526. House Bi11 526 on postponed consideratiod. ' .

' . . - 113- ' . .

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' . . ' .

h

'j . . ;

SENATOR EGAN:. q

. !Yes, ér. Fresident and members of the Senate. Senate

ïi11 5...or Eouse Bi11 526 is the identical bill as àenate '

Bil1..!fs identical to Senate Bill 138, whtch passed this

chamter last May. Thfs is the Eouse version, exactly as

tkat, with no amendments. We have debated the issue...

F R E S I D E N T : ' : . . - .' . ' . . .

Just, just a Dorent. I'm afraid no one is hearing youy

Senator. Please, mêmbers be in their seats. Will the members

' be fn thefr seats. Letts have some order. Proceed, Senator.

SENATOR EGAN:

The Seaate Bi11y Senator Gilbert, is in the House

Committee on Conservation. This billy by 1973: will require

that detergents contain no phosphates after January lst of

that year. We've discussed the bill. Weeve discussed

its importance. It has received a considerable amount of. . '

. , . .2 . ' . ' . ,. '. . ' ' - p ubtli d i t y . I t d o e s n o t o r o v i de . ' f o .r ab r a s i v e s ub s t i t u t è b . . . '

It merely provides that phosphates will be removed from

detergents, those detergents which are sold in Illinois.

Chfcago has an ordinance' e'xactly as this bill states. '

Skokiey River Forest: Arliagton Heights is considering

oae; the Village of, or the City of Park Ridge is, either

has enacted it or is enacting it. And I will ask for your

favorable consideration of the bill without any further

' discussion. . '

. PRESIDENT:

Senator Knuepfer.

SENATOR KNUEPFER : '

' , Well, Senator, I appreciate what youtre tryin'g to do and

. '- ' ' ' '

z dontt clatm to te an expert in thts field by a long shot,'

but, mar:e r'= readshu the wrong lsteratùre, z.w not sure; 1but some of the things that I have read lately would

. . . . - 11 - . . . .

. . . . . ' * : t. ' '

. . '-

. .

' .

. . .

' . . . 1. . . . ' ' '

. ' 4 . . z

iadicatew..vould lead me to believe that if you eltminate

tye phosphates. youtve got something a 1ot worse. I sup-. .. . ... - -. . . . . -

pose we could go back to soap although that may have some

problems, re= not so sure. Iem very hesftant, frankly, to

take this step at thfs time. I think the...as I understand

' ft, the EPA is evaluating this. I understand one of the

reasons that they havea't come out on this ts if we want to

still wash our clothes when weere a11 done, wetve got to have

an effectfve substfrute. 1* can remember reading an article

in one of the magazines, Scientific American, that I read:' Jnot so long agoy saying that three of the substitutes tha:

. /have been commercially...or have been suggestedz a1l have

certain drawbacks. 0ne tends to produce cancer and the '

other two tend to do sowething else. Itm not so sure this

is a field for legislation. 1 think it may be a better

field for the technicians, and I think it had better be

' ' . . . left...l'm not' suggestfng we shouldnf.t'concern 'ourselves ' . .

but E thfnk it had better be left to the chemists to deter-

mine, and our expebts in the EPA when we have goL a satis-

factory substitute, so that we can resolv'e our problems and

still not offend one another. I would urge that we consider

' this and vote no at this time.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Mitchler. . '

SENATOR XITC,HLER:

Mr. President, ITd like to ask the sponsor a question.

PRESTDEKT: ' .

He fndicates hetll yield. ' ' ' '

' SENATOR MITCELER: . . .

. Senator Egan, I know you have a wide knowledge in la!.r '

' and a11 that, but T#1 going to ask vou the old question that

we ask about a11 of these billsk WFvo actually wants this ''

. . 1y5- . .. ! '

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' !bill and wko's bekind having this bill put through?

.FRESIDENT:1

Senator Egan. d

SENATOR EGAN:)

'

.') S nator I r fntroduced the bill tn the Senate at thee , ,

request of Represventative Capparelli, who fs the princtple

' sponsdt of this House B1l1.'.J'But we discussed the bill at .' : E. .. ' : ' . . : ' 1J .. length; we live on the north stde in the City of Chicago;

1'j we not only use Lak; Michigan for boating and fisbing and. .

' ' -' -' Ij

'

'.t '

swimming, but we drink that water, Senatory and if you know

anythfng about the northvest side of the County of Cook, and' .

the north endy youFll know tbat the Skokie Lagoon fills up

1 wfth algae fn :he month of Augus: so that you could practicallyi ? 'l kalk across the lagoon. That water spills down into the

north branch of the Chicago River, which flows approximately

'

200 yards away from my house. My children play on the banks) .

' . o f tha t r f ver , 'as do my .ne f ghb'o'y ' s -chi ldken'. ..That 'rike r' ' '1 ' . -. . '1 ' flows down in tie Mississippi'. Now, senator, this bill will

prevent the'distribution of phosphorou: into the Skokiey

'

' ' '

V i ' 'tagoony nto Lake Michigan, consequently into the north;

branch, and consequently, into a1l of the water systems

throughout the State of Illinois. Now...

PREStDENT:

' ' Justq..just. For what purpose.doeu Senator Mitchler

arise? . . ' .

SENATOR MIICHLER:

Well, I ask for recognitto'n here and I only get allotted

so'much time, anm la..the Senator has not answered my

' question yety and I doubt 'if he ever wou.ld. But. 1:11

. answer ft for hfm. He's .gofng fnto an explanation of the

!, bill and tkat's not uhat I asked for. t asked himy who wants .'. ' t1e btll :nd 1111 answer for'him. Mayor' Daley 'of the ' ... . #

'

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. - 116-

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lCtty of Chicago wants the bill just to try to prove what's

, . . h .z--go o 4 f .q:-- thp C ity. o f Chi c ago i s go o d f o r tlke S t at e . . kow ,

l .' ; .I rfse fa opposftion to this bill, and I fought tt before

and I'm gofng to tell you wky. Because I orfgfnally !1 .k

'

' . . r - thought that, tnasmuch as the City of Chicago put this ban

on phosphaees fn .detergents through, and the City of Aurora,

in Kane County, in my district did, I thought ft might have

some Derft; but I had drafted a bill. and I discussed thisi

i t h C la r e n. c e IC.1 a s s i n who w a s t h e t h en D i r e c t o r o f t h e, wlj .. $'

Environmental Protection Agency: and I had already passed, ' I

out on a previous occasion to you a letter dated January 29>

1971, over the stgnature of Director Clarence Klassen. And'

he points out in there that there would be alternatives to1 ? .1 legislation banning phosphates.

PRESIDENT:

Geatlemen, 1et s try and keep some order. Ii .l

' li ' SENATOR' MIiCHLEé : ' ' .. ' : ' 'l ' And I al going to read these b<iefly to you

. (1) En-

' couragement of the soap and detergent industry to contfnue; ' . .; '' seektng, as they are now, adequate and approprlate substitutes

l Ifùr phosphate builders or alternative effective cleanlng

compounds: û2f, continued study and implementation of plantsfor the removal of phosphates and waste treatment facility I

affluènce: and C3) continued stud# to determine the nutrient

. and control of that nutrient which is most critical in

regulating the size of biological populations. Now the '

reasons for this are on the fact that phosphates in deter- '

gents is not causin: a11 of that algae growth tn the south

' branch. of whatevdr river, Fox River or Illinoià' River 6'r '

' any river or stream that you are talkiag about. Itïs a

! l b k h.o a x a n d t h.e s e e c' o 1 o ts y n u t s t h a t g e t g o t n g o n t h i s . w & t h o u t.. . ' ' .

. consulting the iatélqigent scientists and the peopfe that '

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have aoxething to knov about thts. I am going to alyo refer I

ou to Sam'ialo..samuel R. Aldridge. Ee is a member of the. T . - -- . . .

âllinofs Pollution Control Board. $he State of Illïnois'

pays him $30,0:0 a year and I have here a file ia where he ,

points out aboue the comments that have been going around'

about taking these phosphates out of the detergents, and he

pofnts out that ft fs wrong. And if the tllfnois Pollutfon .

Control Board Nas gone on record as...they should investigate

this and have a contfnued study. Now we have an Illfnofs

Pollution Control Board set up and if they found that this

was detrtmental to the rivers and streams and the water of I.

.!the communitiesy they vould. Now Senator Knuepfer pointed

out briefly...and I have had a little research into this

Iserving as chairman of the Illinois Water Pollutton Water

Resources Commissfon and we have done a 1ot of study on

tiis, and ; think that I am qualified to get up and point l. ' . . ' : ' . ' ' ' . '. . t h.i s: . o u t . t o y'o u .. N o w i t s'. a ' g r e a t f o r a n t n d u s t ry t o c o me .

'

out, and thfs was a test case here with Sears and Roebucky

'

' p jand the detergent industry will. tell you it was a test case,*

, jand they have had advertising after advertisingy and it is l

a great thing to hoodwink the housewffe with this across

the front and .tell them itls a pollution free detergent.

Bùt they dontt tell them anything about the warning, the

'caution that goes on the.back, and l am going to read it

'

yfto you. It says, Caution. Avoid contact with eyes and

mpcous membraaes. Contains sodium sflicate and alcohols.''

And they have an antidote on here. 'ïFlush wtth cool water.''

Children kf they would eat this in your home, they could ''. : Gfe. Yet you want.to put this on the shelf fnstead of

phosphate fn detergents'. And I tell you that phosphate in

detergents wfll not dause any bodily harm to infants. 'Néw

you are puttfnq thfs on the shelf and there have been kndwn .. . . * '''' . . . .

. . ' .

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cases wkere it kas come into contact where they have .

' directly related, Gven to so far as to have causes of death:

because of coming Lnto coatact wtth this new enzymes and

things thtat they are putting in detergents. Now a number

of you have met wfth the detergent manufacturer and I am

. .certainly not protectfng them because look, if anyone of the

detergent manufacturers could cöme.up with the soiution to

this problem don't think that they wouldn't make a million

dollars. 0ne of the most highly competitfve industries in

. the entire United States. But this idea to come out and ban/

and force them into taking phosphates out of detergents ij

wrong, and I am not trying to put myself up here as one

who's going for these ecology nuts who want to jump on the

. bandwagon and think whatîs good for Chicago and some of

these communities...lhey are doing it a11 over the state and

a11 over the nation, but it is wrong. We are way ahead of' tfmes'and I am gying Eo'belie've br. Aldrtdge who wetre .

paying $30,000 a year to talk and disèuss these things a's

, . a member of the Illinois Pollution Control Board. And I

. ' am going to believe a fellow like Clarence Klassen, whoy for

over 40 years, has been one of the top men in the Water

Sanitary Board and was director of the Environmental Pro-' tectidn Agency. I urge'you to consider this when you cast

' your vote. ànd vote as you did before and do not ca.st a .' f this and vote no. . ' ' 'vote or

PRKSIDENT: ,

Senator Mohr.

SENATOR MOHR: '

I received a call from Dr. Aidridge and he suggest I .

. move the previous question.

PRESIDENI:

'. . Motion' for the preyious guestio'n. A11 tn favor signify

' - 119- '. . . : . .. J '

by saying aye. Contrary mfnded. Motion prevafls. Senator

-Egan =ay close tEe deBate.

SENATOR EGAN:

Yes, Mr. Presfdent and oembers of t%e Senate. Very

brfefly, the arguments that are used by Senator Mfrc'hler, we

have heard before. This bill does not, does not require a

substitute for phosphates. Those companies that use abrasive

substitutes, in my opinion, should not use them either.

Hovever, 'people lfke Russell Trane, who is chairman on the

Couftcfl on Environmental Quality: says that families ough

to use soap tbat contains the least phosphates that they qan

buy, and he says so to those people that live along the

great lakes because that will help slow the aging of the

lakes. Aging of the lakes and the waterways in this great

State of Illtnois fs slowed by the prevention of phosphorous

emission into the water system. It cannot be removed at the

sewage treatment plants. Consequently, it musf be'/emoved

from the detergents, it's as kimple' as that. And to further

continue to answer the question Senator Mitchler want

this bill because I would like to see my children fish in

h Q h branch of the Cbicago River. If they clean up thet e nor

north branch with the $125,000 that was appropriated, and

there is less algae in that river we may be able to 'stock it.

with ftsh some .da#. I would like to see that. I would also

like to see tNe filtration plant wfth less algae clogging

ftsxmainbainence and its .performance. That's why I want

. bill, Senator Mitchler, and I would appreciate a favorable

vote.

PRESIDENT:

Secretary will call the roll.

SECRETARY:

Arrington. Baltz. Berninz. Bidwfll. Bnuce. Carpentfer,

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;

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p . . J'

' - Carro'll Clarry, Chew) Clarke, Collins, Coulsony Course,#

Dpyidson, Donnewald, Dougherty, Egan, Fawell, Gilberty '- - - . - :: - -- ' . . - . . j

craham, Groen, Eall, Earris, Eorsley. Eynes, Johns, Knuepfery

Knuppel, Kosfaski, Kusibab, Latherow, Laughlin, Lyons,

YiBroom, Mccarthyy Nerritty Mitchler, Mohr, Neistein,

Newhouse, Nihill, OfBrienp Ozinga, Palmer, Partee, Rock,

Romano, Rosander, Saperstefn, Savickasy Smith, Soper,

Sours, Swfnarski, Vadalabeney Walker Weaver.

PRESTDING OFFTCER: 'tsenato'r Vadalabene) '

. Senator Eorsley.

SENATOR HORSLEY:

I told Senator Egan I would vote for this bill and I

keep my word and I vote aye.

FRESTDING OFFICER) (senator Vadalabene)

Senator Groen.

SENATOR GROEX: .

' Welly Mr. President, cn a pofnt of personal prfvflegey I

would like to say a couple of things. Since I have alreadyy '

voted, I would not state that I hâven t. I was a member ofI

the Agrfcultural Commfeeedy I belfevey when thfs bfll was

first heard in the Committee on Agriculture; or at Ieast a

simflar bill. And I recall there were people there from

the..uLhere cere people ehere from Lever Brothers, as I . '

recall, and, and others who testified reg'ardinj phospbates .

' . and the effect of phosphates in the detergents and the effect

on streams and algae and thts sort of thfng. After one of '

thos meetings I engaged the..,one of the chbmists or engineers

' from one of those qompanies, and my recollection is it was* i

Lever Brothers, about thfs; and ah...I dfscussed this thing

with him and he admitted that the manufacturers could sub- .

' stftute other things; that they did not have to use phosphateso'

but that èngfneerfng wfse, and constructfon wfse and the changing .

. - 121- . . '' . . .

!

vtse tkey would prefer tkat it be deferred for a year or two.

1ke allegxtfon vas also made that one of the reasons this bill

*as in was that it was a bonanza to the city of Chicago in thatl .

tt would result fn consfderable reduced cost to them at their

ftltration plaats and thfs sort of thing. I went home' and I

checked with my sanitation department and my water people

at hope, aad they concurred that there would be a saving to

my community if detergents would be used, certainlyy in lesser

aoounts. I don't see anything wrong with this bill. think

ft fs a bill that industry can comply with without undue hard-

ship. I think it would be beneficial to the people at large

and that fs the reason I am voting aye.

FRESIDING OFFICER: (Senator Vadalabene)

0n this questton the yeas are 31, the nays are 11. Hav-

ing received the constitutional majority this bill is de-

clared passed. Senator Rock moves to reconsider. Senator

Johns. Sçnator Johns second it Moves to table it. A11

fn favor signify by saying aye. Opposed' no. The ayes

have it. Senator Latherow.

SKNATOR LATREROW:

Mr. Presfdent: I want a verification of the roll call.

PRESIDENT:

Vill a1l the members be in their seats. Do you want the

verification of the affirmative? Verification. Roll call.

SECRETARY:

Carpentier, Carroll, Cherryy Course, Donnewald, Dougherty:

Egan, Groeny. Hall, Horsley, Hynesy Johnsw Knuppely Kosinski,

Zyons, Mccarthy, Mohr: Neistein, Nihill, OfBrien, Palmer,

Parteey Rociy Romanoy Rosànder, Sapersteiny Savickas, Smith,

Soper, Swinarskiz Vadalabene.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Latherow.

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' . .

- --SKNATOR 'LATEEROW: - - ---

khere is genator Carroll?

PRESIDKNT:

Is Senator Carroll on tke floor? Remove the name ofv 1

.senator carroll. Is Fenator Eorsley on the floor? Remove

the name of Senator Eorsley. Senator Egan.

SENATOR ECAN:

Mr. President, I suggest, Mr. President, that the veri-

ficatton comes at a'time which is too late.. The motion was

' made to table the motion to reconsider. The ayes had it andJ

then the motton to vertfy the motion was made. When the/ .' . jverfffcatfon was announced the people that vere verfffed vere

here on the floor. I would like to get on with the business

of the Senate.

FRESIDENT:

Well...the...senate...seaator Latherow.:

SENATOR LATHEROW:'

f iffcation of tie roll call at the same '' I was asking or ver.

' ' ' '

time the motion was betng made over therey and E wasn't

recognized.I

PRESIDENT:

The...as long as the matter before'the body was still on

the s#me bill the request for verification is in order.# .

For wha't purpose does Senator Knuppel arise?

' . SENAIOR KNUPPEL:

I just wanted to verify two thin'gs, and I...0ne of them '

fs that senator Latherow was up. You can't recognize two

. people ae one time. I was watchfng him. And at the time of '

' . the vote >as taken however, Horsley was here because he and

. .' .

. Cherry had a conversatton back there by the door and I think'

' he ts tn the anteroox nov.

PRESIDENT: '

The.'..Ue wfll remove the names of Senator Carroll aqz'.

. - la3- . . .

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senator Eorsley. ; have beea advised that on the verification

the name of Senator Lusibab was not listed and that he had

indicated to tFe Secretary that he wished to be reco.rded as

votiag aye. On that question...For what purpose does Senator

LatEeroc arfse? '

SENATOR LATEEROV:

senator o'Brien where's he? How...Where is he?

PRESXDKNT:

Senator olBrien listed ta the affirmative? Senator

otBrien will be removed from the lfst. 0n that question

' the yaas are...For what purpose Senator Egan arise? For

what purpose Senator Egan arise?

SENATOR EGAN :

If we are going to verify the roll call, Mr. President,

I would like to do it.

P'RES IDENT :

- Well it h#s been done. ,

SEkATOR EcAN: . -

We have people walking in and out of the door since the

begiahing. ' It has been 5 miaut/s. '

FRESIDENT:

On that question... .'

SENATOR EGAN:

I wovld like for you to verify the negative, then. .

P RE S tDE N.T ; .

Request for a kerification of the negattve. The negative '

vill be verified.

SECRETARY;

' Baltz, Berning, Bruce, Clarke, Davidsons Harris. Knuepfer/ .'

herow McBroomy Merrtit, Mitchler Weaver.Lat p y

PRKSXDENT: ç

. '0n that...genator Egan. . .

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SENATOR EGAN; . -

I vould like a verification of those that voted present.

FRESIDENT: ' '

There are 'aoo..there are none votfng present. On that

question the yeas are 29y the nays are l1. The bill hàving

fafled to receive the constftutional malority is declared

defeated. Senator Lathero. moves to reconsider. Senator

Clarke =oves to table. A11 in favor of the motion to table

sîgnify by saying aye. Contrary minded. Motion to table

prevails. 3686. senator soper.

SENATOR SOPER;

Mr. President and members of t%e 'Senate. This bill

does exactly what the synopsis says. It reappropriates $56,000

. a balance from a lapsed appropriation to pay for the...Thts

is a heck of a time to bring this up...the Anti-pollution

Bond Act. We forgot to pay some people, like the fellow that

' did the prlnting and the fellow that did the advertising on

' it that was necessaryy an'd sope of the 'lawyers that didnft#

'

.

get paid. I'd move a favorable roll calf. '

PRESXDENT:

Senator Rock.

SENATOR ROCK: ' ' .

I wonder, Mr. Presidenty if we can have a little order.

'PRESIDENT: '

. ' ' #

'

. Just @ momqnt. Pleasp. Gentlemen. Let s...Wi1l' the

members be in their seats. Members be in their seats. Senators

. Carroll, Fawell. Senator Ozinga, Bob Cahill. Gentlemen.

' SENATOR ROCK: ' .

' ' Yès. Mr. President and members of the Senate. I rise

in oppositfon to Eouse Bill 3686 and suggest to the members

that ft does not do exactly what the calendar says it does.

lIt is not a reappropriatfon bill. It is a new approp'riation

. . $bill to the Secretary of State. This bill was filed.k.came over

here late and was dtscharged from the committee on appropriations

without a kearing; aad I would particularly like...advise that

Senator Harris should pay attention. We have been through

thfs manys many times. Under public act' 762460 the Secretary

of State received a $250:000 appropriation. That appro-

priation or the balance remaintng as of SeptembeF 30 of this

year, has lapsed. Now in order to pay certain fees, the sum

of which is $56,954.68, this is an act making an appropriation.

It is not a reappropriation. We don't know who the money is

going to for one thing because the bill does not spell it

out. We dfd not have an opportunity to question the sponsor.tIf the Doney is now ovlng to, let's assume, to somebody lïkei

'

Chapman and Cutler or anybody elsey such a debt was presumably

incurred against the o1d appropriationy whfch was publie a'ct

762460. The unexpended ba'lance lapsedy suggest, on

September 30. Now it has been common knowledge in this state

tha.t if, one has a claim against an appropriation that

has lapsed, proper redress the court of claims. If

the present bfll fs to cover a debt, and ve're not sure ft is,

at least Itm not. But if it is to cover a debt incurred

against the $250,000 General Assembly appropriation and

the debt did not éet paid prior to the lapsing and the person'

or firms now kave no recourse, I suggest, as Sqnator Harris

retteçated a couple times in the appropriations committee. '

no redress except'the court of clgims. However, the debt

was not tncurred agafas: the $250,000 appropriatioa, then

was indurred illegally with no appropriation agains: which

to cNarge such indebtedness because public acL 762460 in no

way provfdes for legâl fees, in no way. A new appropriation

vould hardly be appropriate to meet an illeg'ally incurred

. - 1g6-

iadebtedness. If the debt had not yet been iacurred it

probably d6uld legally be incurred.q.could not legally be

tncurred by tke Secretary of State due to the fact t'hat the

Anti-pollution functions are vested rfght now in the

Envfronmental Protection Agency. Not the Secretary of' State.

r suggest that thfs fs a maeter for the court cf clains and

soli'rit a .no vote.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Parteek

SENATOR PARTEE:

Welly this is ' b tma t t e r o f f o rm r a t he r t h an s u s an c e .

The o ri g inal app r opr ia t ion was f or $ 2 50 , 0 00 f or the Ant i-

pollution Bond Act to service this program and of that the

Secretary of State spent $191,000. Now there was 59...1

wish you would go home now, please, because I can't hear.

I'm sorry I didn't know...There was $59,000 left which was

a'dequate tp pay thi: obligation. . The. atvtorney in the Secretary

of Sta e s office former representativey Les Jones, told

me that he felt that this was payable' out those funds,

although, he safd tt was a valid obligation. Now evther the

state pay ft out of the remaining $59,000 or we reappropriate

or he goes to the court of claims for the money. Technically

Senator Rock is exactly rfghty but ft a matter form and

not szbstance. Tt seems to me that it is cheaper with a

bill being on this stature, in this posture, to vote the money

now rather than have the matter go .to the court claims.

It 1: still coming from the state of Illinois and it doesntt

make, to me, that kiad of dtfference. But I thought I should

make that explanation, so that you would know what the .real' '

i t u a t i o ns

PRES IDENT :

Senator K'nuppel.

- 127-

SKNATOR KNUPPEL:

I would like to address a question to Senator ParteeI .because now r am confused. Recently we passed a bill here,

that Seaator Baltz handled sequal of today, where we appro-

.p.r ta.t ed mofbey. tha't co.uld no t .have b een app ro p r ia ted f o r the

.towns of Chillocothe,county of Uarren, and London Mills; and

as a result of that thq Governor found it necessary to veto

it. The bi11...we had to have a new bill, a new method, a

whole new' procedure. And in the veto, the only reason that

ft cas vetoed vas because ft...thfs type of claim had to be

established in court of claims. Now I agree with the

Senator that ft is question of form rather than substance

and it would be cheaper to do it this way; but it certainlyy

if we...if ve are going to get v'etoed or if it is going

to be technically set asfde in court wouldn't be better

to stop now and find out where we are at...It appears to me. ' . . . '

'' ' tH'at'we are goi'ng-to be here' tomorrow.- and see if we can't'

get a technical legal opinion as'to whether this has to be

vetoed or tried in court. just don't think we should go

ahead at this point. We have two conflicting situations here

and we have a case where we had to bring a bill completely

through agafa.'on refunding those sales taxes t'hat were mis-

computed. Webve got time. Why don't we find out exactly

what the legal aspect of this

FRESIDENT:

s ' Mitchlerenator .

SEXATOR MITCHLER)

We.were conferring with the staff on this sidex..if

the staff has produced something on fhis ah...with the President

Pro Tem we would be glad to share it vith them but we have

reque'sted through our staff for the Environmental

Agency .to provide us 5z.f.th 'rhe faformatfon on thfs No=

.- 12 8..

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j 'h . .j '

.j 'j '

the EPA is charged with the administration with the Anti-'

- - .- pollution Bond Act and it is very unusual or very usual, I don't

knov which vay to put it. But ve have not heard from the

Environ=ental Protectfon Agency yety and Mr. Presfdenk and i

membersy I would like to suggest that we hold ft over one day

and see if they can function and give us a reply to the requestthat we asked them on this, because they're the administrators

on it and I think that several weeks have goue by a'nd they

still haven't replied to our request; and I thlnk that ve

should give them one .more day and hold thfs over til tomorrow.

I guess we are going to be tn session. 1 would ask for that

.

. consideration.

' PRESIDENT:

Senator Soper.

SEKATOR SOPER:

Velly I doa't know what the Environmental Protection

Agency has got to do wfth this. It has aothing to do with

this bill. Et has nothing to do with this moncy. They

dontt knou anythfng abaut ft, and thfs mo'ney fs old. It is

for printfng and everythfng else, and I ah...let's vote this

up or down. I don't care what you do with it. It's up to

you ff yMu don't want to pay the just debt of the State of

'Illinois, and if you want to barber this thing you can stay

here and barber ft; you can look ft up and down the rtver,

'' but it does ekactly what it said. Ah...the money...the money

that was to be used to pay this lapsed: aad now youfve got to

either reapproprfate the money and pay these people or don êt

pay them. A part of the money is due for printing the bonds

and part for advertfsing of this programy and the other is to

Chapman and Cucler for theîr opinion. If you donlt want to .

pay Lhem', it's o.k. I catl for a vote on this thing. Letts

go up and down; ve doa't need aay static. We have a lot

: of thfngs to do here. ' . '

. . ' -. 12 9 - .

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PRES ILDENT :

Senator Bruce.. '

SENATOR BRYCEI l

Vell Saaator Soper, I kave a couple of questions before 'i' j.

' we vote on thfs. Could you anslzer those foè me7l .

' 7 PRKSLDENT: '

Senator Soper.

à ssxAloR sopsa: 'î; I would be happy to tf T can. I hake told you every-t . .l L thing about this bill there is to tell

. It is about 5 lfnes

long and if you have 5 questions fou have a liae.

PRESIDENT:

1 ' Senator Bruce. '$l SENATOR BRUCE:l ?

t may have more than that. Now vhich 1aw firm are we

talking about. We have heard of Chapmgn and Cutler. Is '

1 ' that the only law firm involved? .

.f ' . .-PRESIDEST: .

,1 - ' . . ' ' '

' Senator soper. . ' '

1 SENATOR SOPER: '( ' .

1*

. What does this...the ah...the sheet I got on this: I will

read tt to you. ft was shown to ih...the Honorable C. Partee

President Pro Tem and the leader on your sfde. And it says

that to conferencesy preparations of legal servicesz'approving

opinion on the 100 million dollar antt-pollution bond issue:i A State of Illinois 'Chapman Cutler l1l West Monroe5er eS , , y p

Street, Chieago, Illinois 60603. Now there's ah. . .45 thousand

dollars: and there is Authousand 332 dollars for postage

4 'air rate, and ,500 cofies of the offi,cial statement on the

bonds, and th'ere was a charge of 'printing of thè' bonds, the

rack ior sighing and a few other thlngs that went to the; . .

American Bank Note Company. They have got $7,622 ooming. '

. . . .yai. .. . ' .

. . . .

Yeah...do you waat to kaow where they are from? It 'ays the

executive officc for correspondence oaly at 70 Broadlstreet,-- .....-..---. - ' - ' - ' ' . (

!New York: Nev York, 10004, New York.

PRKSIDENT:

Senator.Bruce.'SENATOR BRUCE:

Yes. When was that bill submitted to the state?.' . . '

PRESIDENT:

Senator Soper.'

SENATOR SOPER:

Xhis bill is dated June 29, 1971. And they failed to

pay the bill. That's why we are here. The money elapsed

before they...it was an oversight and they didn't pay the bill.

PRESIDENT:1

Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:

Are you .saying that an auditor on' a bill tu/ned in by

Chapman and Cutler between June 29th and September 30th did

not péy that bill. Are 3ze talking about 45 thou'sand plus aù

additional 56 thousand?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Soper.

SENATOR SOPER:

Senator Brucey ITm noL sayin'g that the auditor didntt

pay the bill. You asked me what the date of the bill was

and I said the date is Jzne 29> 1971, and whether he g:t

that day or he didn't get I donît know. BuL the total

h t#s asked' and this is 56 thousand dollars and thereamount t a

was 59 thousand dollars left, the people didnft get it. Now

thfs comes from'the Eousi, and this is a11 I know about it.

and Tzhetber the audifors sat oa it or didnet on it or

dfdnct Ret ft l don't knou. You will have to ask him; he

- 131-

' .y

j . ' ' ' ' '

fs a member of your ffrm.

.- . - -- -. - - PRES LDENT : .. .

Senator :ruce.

SENAIOR BRDCK:

Felf, part of the. problem may be that under Publfe Act '

76-2460 vhich ts fn controversy here, I don't believe that

the audftor could legally pay that fund, and I solfcit your

attention to the Act itself and to the duties of the

' Secretary of State as they are set forth fn Publfc Act 76-2460.

Ee has the duty of attesting to the..ato the signature of the/ ,Governor and adding the seal of the State of Illfnofs. D be-. llieve he can do that without a 1aw firm's opinion. He also

must lithograph a 'facsimile signature of the Governor, and the

, Secretary of State, and the State Treasurer. Again: if he,

I believe he can do on his own. He does everyday. His final

duty under 76-2640 is in article 9, it says: the Secretary

. o! stafe shall cause publtcation of this Act to be made pnce

each week for 3 months at leait before the vote of the people

is takep on Lhis act in at leàst two daily newspapersy one>

'

. .

of which shall be published in the city of Springfield, and

the other in t'he city of Chtcago. The Secretary of State

' shall make an additional publication in other counties as in

the casa of constitutional amendments. Nolz we helped him

. in that matter by setting out in' section 8 of Public Law .

76-2460 the proposition that was tp be put to the people.

Basically shall the Anti-pollution Bond Act enacted by the

76th General Assembly become effective. It goes on as set

forth in that law. I hope that Chapmap, Cutler was not asked

' ' to' redraft that sfnce bhat is the way we commanded the ' '

. Secretary of State to submit it to the newspapers. 1, un-

fortunately, could noL get a copy of any aewspaper that con- '

tained that: but r am assured that that vas the form, and ic

. . : -'

l 3 2 - ' . '

' .vas not altered by Chapman and Cutler. The last duiy is that

' $the sum of 250 thousand or so huch thereof as may bb necessary

i

ts appropriated to the Seeratary of State for administtation

of thfs Act. Eis duties under thfs Act I have already enum-

.' erated. TLxing his sfgnature, attestfng to ehe sfgnature of

. tke Governor and the Secretary of Stat'e; and his third duty

fs putting it fn the newspapers. Someholz I hope that our : .L....( . ' '

Secretary of State be he Democrat or Republican has the: #

intelligency to run that without the opinion of the 1aw firml .î : in Chicago. E am not sure the reason the bill was not paid.

Well, it's beea a question that Xs not what the opinion. . .

FRESIDENT:

j Senator Bruce has the floor. Senator Bruce.

'

j SENATOR BRUCE:/ .ll am still trying to ftnd out how under Public Law 76-2460

we authorized the Secretary of State to seek any opinton atf .

.. all. I am also curious that the bill was submitted on June

i 29th. I wopld check with the auditor happily to find out, and Ij .. '

believe that any voucher that was shbmibted Sy June 29th had

J . ' been paid by September 30th. I think we.have a question of(. jr whether or not this is not a dual payment. Finally as to what.J ,

is in the account, I would draw the 'attentiôn of the body to

the fact that the bill is drawn in the alternattve. The sum

of 56 thousand dollars or so much thereof'rekains unexpended.'

' on the final report issued by the Department of Finance'sunday

after June 30th, which is the final reporz for closlng out'

a11 accounts by the auditory the sum of $58,653.53 remains

in the acèount.' I would ask this body then if we are Paylng .

'not $56,954.68, but we are paytng to t&e 1:w firm $58,653.53

if it reare to be paid legallv it could not be paid legally

, because che period for paynenc has lapsed. I donrt belfeve I' '

. that tkis is a legal appropriaçion.. and I woutd solicit the , .. . . . . ' , .. . .. . ' . ' . .

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no vote of the members of this body.

PRESIDENR;

Senator McBroom .

SENATOR MCBROOM:

Mr. Fresident, I =ove the previous question.

FRESIDENT:

Motion for the previous question. A11 in favor signify

by saying aye. Contrary mtnded. A11 those in favor of the

previous questîon please rise. Al1 those opposed to the

motion please rise. The motion does not prevail. Senator

Mccarthy.

SENATOR MCCARTRY:

I have a questfon for the sponsor or anyone. The sponsor...

Senator Soper? Senator Soper, the way I understand is that

the sum of $56,954.38 is the money that was appropriated

to the Secretary of State for the various matters in eonnection

wit'h the referendum on thç pollution bond issues Am I correct

in thinking that?

PRESIDENT:

. Senator Soper. .

SENATOR SOPER:.

There was 250 thousand dollars that was appropriated to

them as I understand it. Of that 250 thousand from the memo-

randum I have here and ehe only thing I am working.is...from

this. This bill was instituted by Regner and Lechowitz or

whatever ah...techowftz. .hels on the Appropriatton Comyittee

and he is a Democrat, and they tell me he is worse than a

Bohemfan when it comes to paying out money. So he knows

aboùt this, but aù.z.there was 25d thousand dollars .appro-

priated: as T understand it. This bill was not paid: and this

was for the opinioa Eo the bonds could be sold together with

' the.prfntin'g of the bonds.

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PRESIDENT:

Seaator Mccartky.

SENATOR MCCARTHY:

Now t tkink that you have answered my question Senator>'

Soper. And that fs this. Are ye now taking monies that were

appropriated for .the passage of the bonl issue and now using

that money'swhich was not spent to pay for a subsequent

action; tkat being expenses in connection with the sale of

the ffrst 100 milliôn dollars.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Soper.

SENATOR SOPER:

I understand what you are driving at. I dontt know.

think that this 'first thousand that was appropriated was

appropriated for the purposes of the issuance of the l00

millionu If it wasn't then you know mor: about it than I

do. And this was put on my dçsk and I szas asked handle it

beçause of tie fact of that tbese bills are unpaid; and tbe

explanation is as simple as I told you. If you believe it

okay. If you don't believe it vote no. If you .do believe it

vote aye, and letes get on with the business of the house.

And letts go ahead because this isn't big enough to barber

about and *1 could eare

PRESIDENT:

Seaator Mccarthy .

SENATOR MCCARTHY:

I should like speak against this $i1l çhis basis.

Tvo hundred fifty thousaùd dollars was appropriaked by the

General Assembly that proceeded this one ço pay Yor the:

penses of the referendum on the bond issue. A11 of that money

was not speat. Nov éhe way get it...the way I get it and I

vant to be authorlzed Pollutlon Control

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kBoard to sell a 100 millioa dollars worth of bond issues this' l

. lspring, and what ve are doing to pay part of the expeùses on

selltng the boads is to take the money that was utilzied on

the promotfon of the referendum itself. Xow if I am wrong

I vant to be corrected. Now the reason it becomes important is

I have yet to see a detailed report of how much Koney was

1 spent on tha moaey that we.approprtated this spring,'Mrm '.! ' ' f -'

j Rrestdent, for the cost incurred tn connectton with the salelt of the bonds. Now donft think it is fair to this General

Assembly to say tbat we should appropriate 56 thousand

dollars more connection with sale of bonds when we haven't

even got the ffrst bflls on how much has been spent on rhe

1i money that was specifically appropriated @he proper authority' ) / 'l Mn the sale of the bonds. Now, do I make myself clear?

Well I hope I do and until we get those answersy 1 would. :

suggest we vote no.

p. PRESIDENT:f .$l secretary wtll call the roll.

SECRETARY:

Arrington, Baltzy Berning, Btdwill Bruce Carpentier,> >

Carroll, Cherry, Chewy Clarkey Collins, Coulsony Course,

Davfdsen, Donnewald, Dougherty: Egan, Fawelt, Gilberta Crahamy

Groen, Hall, Harrisz Horsley) Hynes, Johns, Knuepfer, Kunppel,

Kosiuski, Kusibab Latherow, Laughlin, Lyons, McBçoomy Mccarthyy. > . .

Merritt, Mitchler) Mohr, Keisteihz Newhouse, àthill, O'Brien,

ozinga, Palmer: Partee, Rocky Romanoy Rosander, Sapersteln,

Savïckas, Smithz Sopera Sours, Swtnarskiy Vadalabeney Walkery

Weaver.

PRESIDENT:

. On that question the yeas are 21, the nays are 8. 1he

bill having failed reçeive the necessary three-ftfths

maloritv declared defeated. 206, Senator Palmer. Do

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you vant to call that back to second reading for amendmenty

is.that right: House Bi11 206 on postponed consideration.

.r .Càn you explafn the axend=ent? Do you have a copy to the

Secretary?

SENATOR FALMER:

Ah...Mr. Presfdent...

House Bill 206 on postponed consideration.

SENATOR PALMER: '

Mr. Presfdenty and members of the Senate, before I

explain the amendment, r would lfke to make a motfon that

there has been an amendment number one that was adopted by

this body. And at this time T would like to move to re-

consfder that vote that adopted that amendment.

' PRESIDENT: .

Motion to reconsider the vote by which amendm'ent //1 was

adopted. A11 in favor signify by saying aye. Contrary minded. . .

The motion prevails. The motion by Senator Palmer to table

amendment J1. A11 fn favor sfgnffy by saylng aye. Contrary

minded. Motion prevails. Senator Palmer offers amendment

number 2. Can you explafn the amendment Senator?

SENATOR PALMERI

And for the edification the motion that just tabled

rgmoves the Home Rule Amendme'nt; a'nd now the amendmeut number

' two just'deletes the state prohibition ah...for the sale,of

liquor and sets the section in the proper way..vjust deleting

seate prohibitf/n. That'à all ft does. . '

PRESIDENT: '

' ' ' '

I there any d is-ç us s ion o f the amendment . S en at o r S o ur s .s

SENATOR SOURS:<'What does it do, Mr. Prestdent. What is the status of

that bfll now. Ue have had 'some very qufck gavellinà here; ' .

. soie very brief explanation. I would like to know what is. . ''

g o i n g o n y ' wh a t t hi s. b i 1 l do e s n (?w i n ' i t s p y' ç s e n t.;'.. f o r m . ' '

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PRKSIDENT: ,

- .. We are ort the amendment r ight aow' Sena to r P almer . '- . r . , - . .j .SKNATOR FALNER:

Lfke to explafn tha: on third readfng kf you want to

do it nox. ' .

PRESIDENT:

Senator Palmer the Senator has asked for an explanation: .

of tke amendaent, and I think he is entitled to that.

SENAIOR PALMER: '

' Wells the amendment right now, I...the best way I can

explain ft is to read the bill as it is now. tet me explain

to Senator Sours this. We had a billy 205 and also 206...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Palmer, if I may...I think the President Pro

lempore would like the mike here.

SENATOR PARTEE: '

. Mr. President and menbefs. of the Lsenate. This is a mattér

. that came up yesterday. There were two bills originally, 205

' . and 206. The office of b0th those bills was to permit taverns

to remafn open on election 'day. 205 and 206 are identical:

but one is an amendment to the Election Code and the other is

an amendmene to the Alcohol Beverage Act, chapter 43. They

b0th must go together. .Now the thing that complicated here

yesterday was there was an amendment on 206 that tnvolved it

in the home rule concept. That has norz been removed and is

now in identical shape as the other bill which bill has. A

alreâdy been signed by the Governor. So this now takes that

home rule questioa out that Sehator Horsley and Fawell were

' toncerned about yest#rdayy and it'now puts it in the same' posture as 205; one amending the Election Code, the other

amendfng the Alcehol Beverage Act. 0ne has already been

. . . '

signed and tt's neceskary to stgn thts btll to give efftcacy

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to tke othcrvvto pass this bill rather.

PFKSIDKNT:

Is there further discussfon of the amendment? Senator

Fakell. '

SENATOR FAWKLL:

r lust want to add that this quite correct as Senator

Partee has fndfcated; and fn addftfony the new amendment whfch

is also being suggested takes away a portion of what was in

Eouse Bill 206, vhidh had the effect of proscribing a11 com-

'. munities from prohfbiting the sale of liquor on election day.! !

So I think the deletion of amendment number one and the nJ,w amend-. /

ment which is being suggested puts the bill in, in fine shape.

PRESIDENT:

Is there...A11 in favor of the adoption of the amendment

fndfcate by saying aye. Contrary minded. The amendlent is

adopted. Third readiag. Senator Gilbert.

SENATOR GILBERT: .' .

. 0n a matter of persona.l privilege, I would'like for a11 .'

the members of the Senate to give to me attentton, to please

' rise for one moment of silent prayer in memory of Senator

' Mitchler's brother who died at twenty minutes of four this

afternoon. Thank you.

PRESIDENT: .

' 3680, Senator Clarke.

Mr. President and members of the Seuate. Thls bfll

deals with advertising bill boards along the interstate

and primary systems in the State of Illinois. A...this is a

. btll that is required by the Federal government. Xccording to

th& fnformation that the higiway department has given me, 'if

' ' we do not adopt a bill o'f this natpre by December first of .

' ' ' . this year; we are 'liable for à penalty amounting to over 32

. . . 1ao.

milliou dollars in kighway funds from the Federal government.

Iy is a fatrly comptex btll, and yet itts a bill that's been

vorked on and worked out by not only the htghway people, but

the advertising people; and it fs my understanding that by and

large that they are agreeable to this. And I would appreciate

your support.

PRESIDENT:

Senator

SENATOR DOUGHERTY:

Senator Clarke this action on my...is entirely not on

pourmy part. I've just been asked to ask you: by a member oft

staff who interested in working out some details on this

bill, if you would miad holding it until tomorrow. This is

hoe my volftion, sfr, but ft has just been asked.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Clarke.

SENATOR CLARKE:

The only èhtng that worries me, Senator, is the

attrition that is liable occur this body...a...I am

willing to hold its but a-a-a it's been on the' calendar'

and I've left it there purposely so that people could look

at it and ask questions, and I haven't had aay really; but

1'11 hold it for a little while if that would help.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Dougherty.

SENATOR DOUGHERTY:

As you were speakfng one of our staff members called me

over sir. It's...I think'ites in the interest of passiùg the

bi'll .

Dougherty.

PRESEbENT:

The bill will be held..

Chair know.

Senator Clarke you can 1et the

3646. se.nator Varrfs.

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SENATOR EARRQS:

Mr. President... t1

PRESIDEXT:

3646...

SENATOR EARRIS:

Senate Bill 3646...

PRESIDENI:

Eouse Bi11...

SENATOR HARRES:

. I'm sorry, Eouse Bill 3646 is a bill that has an emergency

clause on it. It provides for the utilization of the monies

that are accumulatini now in the income funds of the RegencySystem tnstitutions, as a risult of the tuition increases

'

ihat are in effect. Students attending these universities: l

are paying this money. The decision to impose that rate of

tuition was made by the Board of Regents on March 18 of thisI . .,' vear. Thfs' is. a tremendously important matter to this system.

l Let me give you an example of the preduct of just a couple of

instances. For example, within the pirsonal services appro-

priation, 95 thousand dollars of this. to tal w.il1 provide

0 for approximately 300 student Jobs. In the loan account 30

thousand dollars will be rolled over ten times and we will

qualify for.$'300,000 of federal. money for that loan progran.

This will provide loans for some 300 stud'ents. These figures

are greater than this .as relates to Northern and not quite

jt .t is signfficant at Sangamon State. I would be glad to

d't ueqtions that m'ight apply here t statqrespon o any q

i d ke thfs as unmista'keable as I can that this moneyaga n an ma

is being paid by the young people and the familkes who are

sending them that...to our university Regency System. Thisi .

bill passed the Eouse wfth a l55 votes. Ve do nee'd'lt. I

solfcit the support of this body. It does require 35 votes.

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h dtscussion? senator Eyaes. senator Eynes. .Is t ere aayj 'Just a second. Something...youVre not on for some reason.

Is you light showtag7

SENATOR HYNES:

' Yes: Mr. Presfdent and members of the Senate. I was' temporarily unplugged. This bill ihvolves appropriation of

the money derived from the tuitton increases imposed by the

Rezencv Universities for the September semester. I oppose

this bill now. I have opposed the tuition increase consistently

since the last session. I think there was a clear record

made during the last session as to our position on a proposed

tuition increase; a statement was issued by Democratic leader-

' ship at the beginning of this session with respect to a tuition

increase and that position remains the same nowy'that we are

opposed to it. Now, if T c'ould comment on some of the factors

' that are involved here. .First. of all, the other universities '

' in this state have not imposed a .tuition increase. The Regency

Universittes are the only ones at thfs point that have

. decided to go ahead. In terms of the tuition charged at these

. schools fn 1968-'69 ft was $120: in 1969-:70 it went up to

19 5 and incrk as e o f 6 2 Z ; in 19 7 0- R 7 1 in S ep t emb er i t wen t$ :

u'p again 38Z to $2705 then in January of 1971, barely six '

' months lafer, an additiona! increase to $345 or another 28Z .

. was added; and now here again, one semester later, we propose

ëd Zuition increase. QhC tuizion' increase YS in effeCt...' '20 a a

there is a tuition increase in effect at the command of the'

Bôard of Regents, and we have repeatedly said that we are

opposed to a tuition Sncrease at this time. The Board 'of .

. Regents had tEe opportunity when we considered this matter a.f

fev weeks ago to introduce a transfer bill such as that '

which the other unfversitfes fntroduced. The Board of Regents

' can still go to the Governor's Offiçe and qet : pernission to

. . - 142- .

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transfer 2Z from each of their funds into any fund that might

be lackfng, so that ff there are shortages, they can b: aade

up.. 0ur information is that in terms of personal servicesy/ .

the Board of Regents have already allocated enough of their

money to give pay raises equal to vhat the other schools are !

dofng. And ffnally, I would say this that this money should

be...thfs fncrease should be rescinded because I tûink the i

' combination of factors that have been taking place over the

past six months have contrfbuted to make an intolerable i

situation for the stu'dents at this sahool...at these schools,

and to say that we are going to take the tuition increase

money and reinstitute some of the jobs that were cut from

the budget; vith the budget cuts that were made, to me is

arguing in a cfrcle. Wedre raising the student's tuition so

that we can set up or use part of the money to set up Jobs so'

that they caa earn money to pay the iacreased tqitionu They '

are also sufferfng from a loss of off-campus Jobs, from a .' lack Jf summer employment in the general economic conditions, '

from a cut fn scEolarshfp funds, and I think ft fs ineolerable

to impose thfs tuition increase a.t this time; particularly when

' we consider that prides in a11 other' areas have been frozen.

I oipose this bill and I would urge al1 those on this sideto do the same..

. . PkKSIDENT:

' . . Senator Gilbert. ' . .

. SENATOR GILBERT:

.We11, I would point out to the members that the question'

of' the amount.of tuition resfs solely with the various Boards

of the institutions; Southern Illinois University Board of

Trustees enacted an inlrease in tuition. When we did not

make an authorization for them to spend it, they bave made a

refund of it. But it is still their wish and they would like

' to. Seq.ator Hynes and =yself and I have mentioned Senator. . ' J '

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hlin and I think Senator Newhouse will probably be withLaug

d we wi11 certafnly ask hfm and I'm sure he will because io u,, an

' we were the subcommittee that went into this question, and

to have so'methin: done about in- psome othsrs are hopiagcreased tuitions possibly in the September sesston. But

' x. )

the Board has the right to do this; they have done this. '

t 'of this money wi1l be for the benefit of the students JMosas Senator Harris has pointed out. A very small part of ft

will Ro for salary increases and a11 because the Board of

' Regeats, as Senator Eynes has Pointed out, did take care of. J .

that at the time that they adjusted their budget last yea'r. I/do not thfnk that rhere vas a clear candate that we would

not have tuttton tncreases. It was the feeling of SenatorJ. Hynes and S'enator Newhouse of the subcommittee tbat we not

have tuition increases. Senator Laughlin and I both thought

' that tuition increases possibly should not go into effect

'in September but that !ze certafnly did nct rule out the '

' possfbility of tuition increases at a l'ater date. I 'think

inaamuch as thls is being collected, the universities do neez .

' .

tii: money prtmarily for the studentà that are there; I thidk

theyete going to beneftt by it. When the Governor established

Kfs budget for hfgher educatfon ft was the general thfnking .

of the Bureau of the Budget, the Covernor, and many of us

that there would be tuition increases. It certain'ky was the

. . recœmmendation of the Board of Higher Education that tuftion

tncreases be instituted as .of September, and a large amount of

money was expected to be generated fn the income fund and that

' is what has been done here. I thtnk inasmuch as thfs money fs

here, the problem of redistributing it, that .the students .

enrolled kaowiag what the tuition was; it was the school

' of thefr choice. brthink we should allow this money to be

spene partfcularly sfnce as Senator Hynes has pointed out there

- 14 4 -

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' have been reduced jobs outside of the school; there was less I!;lrk thss suaoer

. These studenss have gone to schoolk Theyv: ;; '

have pafd this tuition. They weat knowfng what the tuition

vas. Now, letts try to get some of tt back to those that mfght '. l .

; need it. Q urie yOu tO VOLe aye On this Vill.' PXZSQDZNQ: '

î . Senator Earris.

l ssswzou uwRRzs,ll vezt Mr. Freszdent, r'm certalnzy gozn: to be brlef.l :i . .$

'

'' . I just point out that to dtscriminate against the Regency

J .i System would be a most unfortunate judgment of this body. The' yield of this additional tuition money was anticipated in the

' fu1 selecttve reduction vetoes that were applied to1 very care ,

1 @he varlous systems. xow we know darn welt that we're short! ?:

'' '

. ' ' ' mpnqyz; bu t here i s. . mon'ey that p eop le volun t arily , knowing ly

are paviaz in the produc't of a deciston made back on March ':) .? f

'

.. l8thy timely in advaace. This isn t the prodyct of a post

' veto matter, and I don't think this General Assembly wants1. . . . .

to directly accept responsibility of setting rates of tuition.; ' .; That'll come back to haunt ps plenty if we ever take that

' step. Now the comparative rates of tuition between the '

v4rious systems, the Board of Governoray the Board of Regents,

Southern and the Unfversïty of Illinoiu, the Board of

Regents System still compares quite favorably and in some

instances even less than some of the other institutions within

our Board system; and wefre just kidding ourselves. Now: I

hope this does not bedome any kind of a partisan question.

This ks a matter of just meeting our respqnsibility o'f utilizing

available fuhds from one of the systems that obviously 'should

be treated differeatly because it has reacted dffferently and'i responsfbly ia connedtion with ihe operation of these schools.

Nov the people who are going' to be dented the use of their

. . ?- 145- . ' . .

it

owa funds wtll be the very students that we have heard

much conce/n for, and I couldn't agree wfth you more, weIought to show concarn for tkese students. I urge yoùr sup-

port for the passage of this bill. It requires 35 votes.

PRESIDENT:

Secretary wfll call the roll.

SECRETARY:

Arrington, Baltz, Beraing, Bidwill Bruce, Carpeatier,

Carroll, Cherry, Chéw, Clarke, Collins, Coulson, Course,

Davidson, Donnevald, Douzherty, Egan, Fawell, Gflberty Graham,

Groen: Rall, Harris, Horsley, Hynes, Johns.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Hynes.

SENAIOR HYNES:

Two points, two points Senator. First, to say that this

moaey is being paid v.oluntartly is nonsense. If the...a

student desires to go to school and he is told he cannot go

unless he pays a certain amount of money and then he pays it.

To call that voluntarily to me dtstorts the definition of the

word. Secondlyy there ts no discrimination against the

Regency Universities. 1he Regency Universities are the only

ones that decided to impose a tuition increase notwithstanding

the number of times we have considered this matter. They

Regency Universities had an opportunity to introduce a

transfer bill or any otXer bill. They still have the opportun-

ity. to do so in January; furthermore, tzhey have the opportunity,

and wïth the Governorls permisskon, they can transfer mon'ey

among the various funos that exfst. And' I say to you that

this bill should not be jassed énd I vote no.

SECRETARY:

Johns Knuepfer'' Kunppel. . .

PRESTDENT:

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. . .

Senator Knuppel.

SEXATOR KNUPPEL:

This fs vhat ks knovn as robbing Peter to pay Paul. It

ts a forp of playing political roulette with the students.

Nov ft just doesntt make sense that one student who doesntt

qualify for a job after he's been held up and blacklacked

out of addftional tuition ought to have that money used for

some other youngster or some other 1ob on that campus as a

. means of avofdfng oûr respobsibillty here ln the General

Assembly. Nowy we played politics with education on this

floor from the time we started. I don't knov. We get tw1l

different stories, and I don't always understand what those

storles are, but 1 certainly can understand here when you àre

funding the 1ob program with the student's own money. taking

out of one student's pocket to provide a Job for another.

. And I say that youfre playing polittcal roulette when you'

. do ft this Tzay. You are robblng Peter to pay Paul. It's

a bad system. We'd better start re-examining ho'w 'we finance

education. I hope when I am back here 'two years from now

' ' that wetve got a lkttle better judgment on this who.le thing

because weVve got to start a1l over and reorient our thinking.

SECRETARY: ' '

Kosïnski, Kusibab, Latherowz Laughlin, tyons, McBroom,

Mccarthy, Merritt, Mitchler Mohr, Neistein, Newhouse, Nihill. ' . ' . ' ''

y

'

O Brïen, Ozïnga, Palmery Parteez Rocky Romanö, Rosander, ''

Sapersteiny Savickas/ Smith, Soper, Sourp, Swinarpki, Vadalabene,

Ua lk e r , U e a v e r . .

. PRES IDENT :

' . S enat o r E.o rs ley ay e . . Mo t.ion t o. p os tp one co ns id era t i o'n .'1

. . . : .

A11 tq favor sigaify by saying aye. Contrary minded. Motion' to postpone considerétion prevailsr Senator Rarris. .

S ENATO R EARRT.S :

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Rr. President, might ; have the attentfon of the Presi-

dlnt Fro Tem.

PRESIDENT:

Ee apparently fs not on the floor right now.

SENATOR HARRTS:

zell r discussed with him earlier today the possibility

of proceeding to that order of business involving House Bill

3636 at 3 otclock. Ee acknovledged that that would be fine.

Itve been patiently 'wafting'to have this régency bill called

'.. first, and 'obviously ites considerably later than 3 o'clokk./

Eow long wilpthe Fresident Pro Tem be detained? l/

PRESIDENT:

He is here.

SENAIOR HARRIS::'

Well, it does seem to me that we have proieeded' beyond

the hour of three that we dfscussed earlfer today to try

to get some work out of the way and we do have a serious

. 'and important matter here. Might I have an understanding

with the President Pro Tem to pyoceed to that series of

bills that was discùssed yesterday beginning qrith House Bill

3636, and I request that they be called back to the order of

second reading because 1 know that the President has an

amendmçnt.

PPESYD'

3636 is called back to second readfng fqr purpose of

amendment. Senator Partee.'

:Tok PARTEE: 'sEN

Mr. President and members of the Senate, the amendment on

the Seeretary's desk is a very simple amendment. And on page

1, lines 2 and 8 it strikes the word regulate and fnserts)

' the vord licease. Noè this series gf bflls has caused a

great deal of concern and consternation. A 1ot of people

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h t thts stat. tn 'various occupations have had somethroug ou. I

' - of whick X feel are without foundation, but in any 'fearsz many- ... .- .. - - - .- --.. J ' jN

#veat, they have them. 0ne very unfortunate thing took place

Illinois, where they put a $1000 fee on for real 'up in Earvey:'' .. . estate Brokers. That is... . 13* p J ' ' . . .. . . ; . '

PRESrDENTI!

Please...senator Eorsley and...

I

That is clearly an unconstitutional assessment and it Ii

will be so proved tn the court aceton vhich ss now pending.' j

If this series of bills, sought merely to preempt cities and!

other home rule units from the licensing provisions of pro-

' jfessions and trades, it would be one matter. It does a great .

deal more than that. rt not only seeks to lfcense, but ft

seeks to'regulate. And tf the state is permittçd through the

ekclusion of the cities and other home rule units to regulatey .

. ' ' . . it simply means... . ' .

PRESIDENT : .

Just a moment, Senator.w.For two reasons. 0ne Do get I'

order,.and secondly r call thts to the attention of the mem-')

bers and our visitors in the gallery also. Itve just been !

informed that a car has...that was parked has moved of its

own volition. Its license number Fs 677743 and is now' I

. v blockfng the drivecay cueside. Senator Partee is recognized.

. SENATQR PARIEE: :

This is a matter of importance to every .cityy town,

illage home rule unit tn this staie. The Illiaois. V y. .

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. . ku.pieipal League fn a letter on th$ 26th..of Octoheb, .19.719 .

said that its positton, which was a'dopted by thù Board of '

$ Directors as well as by aeeting of home rule officials, is 'i .

that the state should not preempt constttutional. local home '..'

' rule ppwers before we have had the opportunity to prove. . '

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ourselves. This Position agafnst preemption was affirmed by

. our Dembership at our recent annual conference. Municipal

home rule authority =ust be protected. Now these towns have

sought home rule for many years. The Constftutfon noc gives

them. home rule. Before there is a'nk real att'empt to deter-mine how they will utilize it or whether they will abuse

ve come in with a series of. bills to preempt the home rule

provisions. Nov, Dore thaa thaty the home rule power, whfch

ve have alvays known a city to have, is a power which is

used by a city to protect the public health, the safetyy the/morals and the welfare of the residents of that city. The

licensing schemes of House Bill 3636 are not sufficiently

complete exercises or performances by the state the powe'r

or function of regulation of the various named economic

activities to warrant completey regulatory preemption. Letfs

look at some of the things that will happen as a result.

the clty of Chicagoy for exànplè, we have some home rule

ordinances, or some city ordinances/ which regulate the

conduct ot real estate brokers. Yesy-the city licenses...the

state licenses real estate brokers. bu't we have many ordinances

vhfch real estate 'brokers cannot abrogate because lf they do

they =ay be penalfaed for so doing. We have an ordinance

against block busting. We have an ordinance in the area...

We'have an ordinance the area of fair ho'usina. And when

a real estate broker violates that ordinancea we may suspend

or close his business; but' with this kind of legislation we

could not protect the health, the safety, the morals and the

.welfare of our ci. ttzenry. lake a barbershop. If this bill

paésesy the Board of' Health in your tolen and mine cannot'go

:into that barbershop and close it or suspend the license

hair is on the floor fwaist deep. The regulatory power is fn

the state.. And we are taking away the power of a city to

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reaulate for the safety. and for the health, and for the morals. '*'' '' '' ' j

of people w1o resfde there. The same thing in terms of aI

tavern. If ites a bartender standfng out at the front door

t passing our salacfous literature to every càild that passes' that place: ff the state is the only regdlatory power, weN .

i =ust stand idly by and see our people corrupted by the activ-l

ities of a person where preemption has taken place. We1$ have a rather expansfve public hea1th program in our city, .I

and I am sure that there are in others; and if we are denied

the regulatory pocer that ve need tc go along with our hea1th

'department tn nursfng homes, and hoppftals, and other places,

I we effectively vill be dented the right to protect the publfc. .j 'hJa1th

, the safety, the! ;

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. morals aad the welfare of our people. Ve can't 'even eaforce. ii

local building codos ff wz have no regulatory power. If

preemptfon fs ever to be justffied, should be justffied

after there has. been a demarstrable showing that.it fs abused.

And that ts not the case. In faet, home rute units have

exercised discretion and good ludgnent, and have not used

thetr powers for disruptive purposes, but for soundly treating

the real problems. In any eventy sound economics would

dfceate dfscreefon fn exercfsfng these varfcus povers. Home

rule units do not wish to destroy economic activities within

their jurisdfction. They wish to enhance them, and are well

aware of the problems of over regulation. No case has been

/aade that exfsting licensing provisions are sufficient and

properly adminfstered. am, therefore,directed to the

Senate Executive Committee with the concurrence of Chatrman

Cherry t'horoughly examine a11 aspects state activ-

ity. These bills do not maintain .the status They take

away power from home rule units. In at least one instance

ihey appear to eake away a pocer thac exfseed b/iore home rule:

the power to license real estate brokers. Yes: t:e Harvey

case I mentioned, where there was a $1000 license fee. If

it is a license for revenue: it is invalid' under :0th the o1d

and' the new CopstiLution. Under the new Constitution .licenbing. :

for reveaue onlyy as provided by all, and if it actually cost

$1000 to regulate rea'l estate brokèrs it would be valid, but

hard imagine such costs being incurred. But if they

are the o'ccufation shoufd be well regulateé. .We hav'e Jlso' . .

a competttfon for fdeas. America is built on competikton,

and home rule allovs for tryfng out nev ideas on a emaller

scale than that of tùe statewide observation. And preemption.

would Prevent that competitfon.

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PRESIDKNT:

Just a momeat. Please. Let's have some order. '

1SENATOR FARTEE: '

Competftfon is in the best publfc interest. The con-

current exercfse governmental powers allows home .rule'. :' . ' .'unfts to compete wfth the state for the protection and the

'enhancement of the.public good. And preemption would simply

preveat that competition. ln any event, the way the bilts

l are drafted certainfy may make them b0th unconstitutional orl .

ineffectual. I submit, Mr. President and members of the

Senate, that these resolutions though patnted as being the>

finest thing sfnce basebally are in fact destructive of the

j police power of states and inimical to the public good. Andl t! solicit your vote on the adoption of this ameadment which

simply says that the state mav not reculate. althouzh it may

license, may not regulate in this area.

PRESEDENT:

Senator Harris.

SENATOR HARRIS:.( .

.6 . Mr. Présfdent'. this tssùe...; must ia a11 iumility sayt

has been somewhat exaggerated by my dear friend, )he PresidentPro Tem. This is a tremendously important piece of legis-

lation. We have spent a great deal of time coastruetiag

The effect of the President Pro Tem's amendment would be to

apply overwhelming effect and consequence; it is unacceptable

'u to me. It is unacceptable the iaterest, aot only of the

specifically regulated professions and industries, but insofar

v ' .as this Senator s judgment ts concerned, the consequence on

thw people themselves directly. I must resist this ameadmeat.

Iytkerefore, Oove to table, and I certainly will wfthhold

. j ' that motfon untfl thlse who wanted to express themselves...l

don''t want off debateà I would hope that this. member-

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' -éhip could be brief.

PRESIDENT)

Senator Lyons. Seaator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

- - - Mr. Presfdent in the Constftutional Convention I recog-

nfzed what we were doing and I made a speech there. Thfs is

not the...this is not the end of this battle with respect

to home rule. I said at that time we were makfng a tragic

mfstake by leaving ft open 'to a simple majority in every session

of the General Assembly. That the fight here would be, and

),one of the principal fights, and at an inordinate amount. /

'time and expense of the people would be consumed each year in

geeing and hawing about how much home rule we were gotng to

give back, and how much we were going to take away. Right

now we are dealfna with licensfng as opposed to regulation.

. Inherently munictpalitîes bave always had the right to exer-

cise police power, as.has been pointéd out by Senator Cherry...

' or Senator Partee. These bflls do exactly as he says. They

actually take alzay and limit the police power of a home rule

unit. We have many counties now who 'are looking hopefully

toward becoming home rule units. I'm sure that the people

of the state of Illinois, who approved the Constition; did

not fptend that uee as legislators within n Arov'' qbort perind'

bf time should be spending our time and our money when we so

' badly need to act on matters of welfarey edudationy the

abolition of personal property taxgs, e.thics so many other

things that should be consuming our time in debate. We

' spend here, on atteiptfng to erode a prtnctple which has been

. , debated in thought and so if, for example, 'someone wins this# .

'. time 'aad they clutch a ltttfe bit of this ekoded hoYe rule

' to thefr chest and dasb off in victory, we:ll be back herç .

two years from now to battke about it agatn; and two years

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after that to battle about it agafn, again, and again. Thts

îp unfortunàte. lt îs like a big white egg out there in

ihe middle of tha field, and everybody runs to get ft, and

ho< muck can tkey collect. Now I think that to ask the home

.v 'rule uaftsy aad I m sure the home rule units oppose this,

to allow them to stand by aad have thefr power, under the police

power, eroded is to ask too much. Just, just the other day we

saw vhere the city of Springfield closed certain floors of

the o1d Leland Eotel as being unsafe. Thfs was a reasonable

' exercise of theirs of their polfce powers. Now I assume that

there are architects in charge of that lob. This legislation

says that the state only can regulate architects. Now I

assume that this would make an argument then as to whether .

the city, under its powers, under its police powers, could

. take such action. I feel that the Constitution should be

. left as it was written. At least for a period of time neces-

sary to see whether in fact uhether ia facty eommunities> .: .'

ovning home kule rights nxercise those intelltgently. Thfs

legfslatfon assumes that our public officials will act on

' féirly. Now there's only one case cit.ed. That case is now

fn litigation. There is not one other allegation from the

floor of this Senate that those who hold the power of home

rule have fn any otherwise violyted that sacred trust that

was put in them by the 1l6 delegates to the Constitutional

' Conventfon. 0ne flower doesn't make'a summer; nor .one. swallow ' ' '' '

a Season. Surelyy there will be.isolated aàuses'by thosq who

do not discharge their trust properly, but they will be infre-

qulat; aad t think that we should at this tiùe withhold such' 'act/on, such drgstic action as in here fntended until we seey'

until we see whether in fact those people charged with :éa' public trust 'tn home 'rule units breach that trust. ' I

PRESIDENG OFFICER: Csenator Donnevald)

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. !Senator Lyons. Well, Senqtory Itm going to put 'your

. . . hnyma down on thzs ltst. I've got a long list. 1'11 'sure put

it dovn after Senator Savickas.

SENATOR LYONS':j ', '

t .--- - M+. Presfdenty I will yield to the Senator. I d just as

soon hear what he has to say before I sfeak anyway.

1 PRESTDING OFFICER:l' A11 right, Senator Graham.

! SENATOR CRAEAM: .t ..

- . Isn't this wonderful. Mr. President, members of the

Senate, this is going to be brief. I'm going back to what I

said once before. When we got involved in this Constitutional

k Convention, and we got a11 bogged down in it: 1'11 hearken

1 àack to the time I said when the leaders of b0th parties got .l 1

so magnanfmous that they thought we were going to have a .

non-partisan Constitutional Convention body, that's when wel .s .! blew it. I said then and I said now, that if you have anybody

) ' that is non-partisan involved in something like this and isj '' .

not responsible for anyone or to anyone, you come up with a?.; . .; mess. Now, we know how the home rule provision go* added

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.to the Constitftion. 0ur non-partisanship let the Chfcago

influence shove it down the throats of the deleaates. Thatês

how ft's there. And the 23Z of the people that voted to

' ratify this last yeary 1*11 bet you lZ of those 23Z didn't have

any idea what the home rule provision did. I opposed it then,

and I oppose it now. And beli'eve you me, if weere going to

stand in defense of anythingy if wefre going to stand in

. defense of a regulatory licensing power to be used for

harassmeat, for political.and personal gains for the ' .

' . power arrests, for prohib.ition of.the free movenent of

l professional peoples''without addttional ltcensina...if that's4 .? ' ê

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t 'what we want that s vhat we re gofng to have. And we go back

to the time'fhat we subaitted ourselves to the product of a

Cppstftut/o/ql Convention that vas noa-partisan.PRESIDING OFFICER: Csenator Donnewald)

Q . .

&enator tyons.

SENATOR LYONSZ-

Well Mr. Presfdent and Dembers of the Senate. Ah, first

of a11 Itm not sure that anybody is, that everybody fulty

comprehends vhat this bill does and what this amendment is

calculated to do. Vhat thik bill does fs to declare it

to be the exclusive power of the State to license and to>

regulate...to regulate, excuse mey ah, various enumerated so-/

called professions. We won't get into whether or not well

diggersy and barbers and so forth, are properly denominated

as professfoas.o.at least we woa't get into that yet. Ah, 1et

m e? s a y t h a t i n e a c h i n s t. a n c e o f t h e s e e n um e r a t e d o c c u p a t i o' n s ,

t h e m u n i c i p a 1 i t i e s a t t h e p r e s e h t t i m e : t h a t i 's t o s a y r i g h t

à 'now. and p rior to the enactment o f the nex Cons ti tu ion y had

certain regulatory powers over these occupations whfch were

granted to thep bv the state. Thfs bill would preempt all of

those powers. In other words, powers t'haè hage been exercised

fn some cases by municipalities for years would be taken away

by thfs bill. I do not...I do not think that ever/one is

fully cognfzant of that fact; but I commend to your attention

the notion that you will be taking .away powers'that many muni-

cipalfties have exercised for many decades some instances.C

I doubt that that's the intent of the bill,'and ff it is the

faten't of the bill, it certafnly flfes in the face of the

mandate that vas gfven by Lhe people when they adopted the new

Constftution. Now : distfnctly recall remarks of SenatorKnuppel at the Constitutional Convention, and one of the

reasons racall it Io vell ts z made a stmtlar talk myself

when r safd that to allov the Ceneral Assembly to preempt

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muntcipal ho=e rule powers by a vote of a simple majqrity of. . l Ij g

rua GauarayOembership Vould =ean this. That in every ses? On 0- . ! IAssembly the wEole concept of munfcfpal home rule vould become I

' a matter of politfcal leveragey of bargaining and haggling '

Ifor partisan advantage; in short members of the Senate, ' :'

exactly vhat is going on here today. Everybody knows that it

cannot possibly be seriously intended that powers that

have been exercised by municipalities for years and years

in some iastances sh'ould tn one bill be dried up and taken

' away. Everybody realizes that half of the occupations, at

least lfsted fn here, cannot by any ratfonal process be called

professions; certainly no one would say that the municipal!

corporations of this state should be ousted of any juris-/ 'diction to regulate the real estate brokers. lhat would meany

for instance, that our anti-block bustiag ordinances in Chi-

. cago are...our fhir housing ordinances in Chicago would be X

' ' unconstitutfonal under this provision.. That many, many '

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municipal regulatory ordinances would 'be struck down if

thfs bill. becomes lau. Thfs is an frresponsible pfece of

legislation tha't has been put in for politicaï jocking baek

and forth and f'or t%e gaining of partisan leverage; and if it

ever passes, God help the citizens of this state because they

will be at the mercy for the first time in many instaaces in

. ' decades o'f' to t ally unaregulat.ed indus t r iqws wi t h1n t he ' co r- ' '. ' . . . '

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porate limits of many of the municipalittes of this state.

Novz that simply cannot be allowed to kappeny and it.cynnot

be safd that a legislature vhfch presumes to call itself

'' ! . responsible could be a party of any such infantile goings

on. Let me also say somethfng else.' It has been said that

. ' tke home rule provision was shoved doun the throats of the

Constitutional Coaven'vion. That statement was made bv a .

. gentleman vho vasn't around the Conventfcn very much. Speak-

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fng as one who was, 1et me say that Nome rule proMkskon was'

. !t%e suBl Kct of an avful 1ot of debate, an awful 1ot df '

!consideratfon, and the oaly question about the whole thing

really vas vEo was gofng to get ft-vvhat size Dunfcipalities I

should be involved. No one ever said for fnstance, that a' : .

communfty the si4e of the city of Chicago should not have

many, should not have the very povers that are sought to beI

reemp ted liy tltis Yf 11 . The real problem vas , as I have men- !P

t ioned b ef or e , and S ena t o r Knup p el t ouched up on , th e we i rd

provfsfon that all of thfs could be undone by a vote of a

stmple majority of the elected members of the General lssem-

b1y at any session. lhates what we have today...blatant polit-

fcal reach for partisan advantage. That's the way thls blll'

hould be treatedy and I promise you that's the way theicitizens of this state will look upon it.

PRESIDENT)

. Senator Savickas.

' SENATOR SAVICKAS: . ' '

. Mr. President, rembers of the Senate. I would like to

refer back to fhe problem of the Real Estate brokers that

were licensed in Earvey and expound a little on the reason

for thïs. Because it seems many of the Senators here think

that this city took the power granted them by the home rule

to really, ah, license out of.business and license for profit

one group of people. In fact, tt got to the point that '

Robert Cook of the Real Estate Board sent a memorandum around

to a11 the House members while'he was supporting House Bill

3636, stating that the necessity for prohibiting home rule '

u i t s f r o m r e g u 1 a t. i rt g a n d l f c é n s t n g t i o s e p r (j f e s s i o n s a n d o c c u - '. . n.

. pations already being regulated by the State of Tllinofs vzas

. vtvfdly demonstratedfthfs past August uhen the city of Harvey . '

. decfded to charge a ltcens'e fee of a thousànd dollars per

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year for eack real estate broker wanting to do business inl' yE

arvey. Ee dtdn t go on to say that the reason that the

cfty did thfs, tlat the city of Earvey, a city of thirty-

seven thousand people, was inundated by 40 new real estate

brokers in tlis small town for the sole pur'pose of creating

panfc in that area, for the sole purposé of like vultures

to destroy an integrated community to make the profits

from the panic of the people in that area selling the real

estate now. wasntt the city council that initiated this

license fee; it vas the real estate...the reputable real

estate brokers that lived and woried in the city of Harvey,

that asked the city council to do something to prevent

these vultures from coming in and destroying the communityy

fheir only recourse because there were no state laws that theyp

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could turn to, and no municipal ordinances that they cquld

turn to, was to enact the stiff licensing fees. It's true

it may be unconstitutional, but maybe in.the vein tbat

these fees were chargedy ft may be held constitutfonal. It

was done in the vein to protect the community from being

destroyedy and I thfnk this should be Brought qut reason

for this licensing.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Cherry.

SENATOR CHERRY:

Mr. President and members'o.f the Senate. S ena t o r Gi'l-

bert told me about two weeks ago of a famous speech that was

made by Prime Minister Israeli who said that his comments

to the House of Commons might change some opfnions but would

never change a vote; and I think we're.probably in that kind

of posftion this moment. A millfon, hundred twenty-two

thousand people apprdved the nev Constitutton. A substantial

number of those votes came from the city of Chicago which,

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-I'm sure you a11 know, has a population of over three million

pqople. I Dade, Q personally made some twenty-five or thirty

kpeeches on behalf of t1e adoption of the new Constitution.

And w'he ther tl'te s t rong is s ues that Ir df s cus s ed and t alke d

g'abou t t o the p eop le t.hat 1' vas t rying t o ge t to vo t e o r

tEe new Constftution was that the city of Chfcago would get

ho=e rule, and that some three million people who contributè . i

substantially to the revenue of this state would have an

opportunfty to regulate and govern itself. Now capriciously

aad arbttrarfly the vote of a million a hundred twenty-two

thousand people is sought to be removedy and completely dis-. . j .. yregarded, and held for naught. I don t think that s crickety

and r think that wetre going to do that, and I'm hopeful ,

that it vi11 not be done, that if ït is doney then the people

of Illiaois, tncluding the People of Chicago, have been sold

a'cat in the bag. And that it never was the intention of the .

people who constructed this Constltution to give the cities

' and villages over twenty-five thousand th'e right to govern

' themselves by. the home rule inclusion. inb so I tùink it's

only fair and equitable and legal that when we adopted this

new Cons titution that we meant what we s aid , that the f ramers

f the new Co ns t i t u t i o n m ean t wha t th ey s a i d . An' d f h ey s a t:d t ooI

gfve home rule to cities and villages o'f over twenty-five'

t'housand. Now that is a11 w'efré asking iere is to retain'

that provision, and not to take tt away arbitrartly and'

; .' caprlcfously as the aetempt ks bezng aade to be done by

this bill. And L would recommend to every membero of this

Senate, my distingufshed colleaguesy to vote to support the

.' amendment that's befng propesed by our distfqgufAhed President

Pro Tempore. And I think by taking thfs bill out of the '

Executive Committee and have it heard without even a com-

mfttee Eearfng, so that ehe people of Illfnofs could send

' . . thdtr' representatives down here. All'of tlle civtc organi-

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zattons and a11 of the people who are Fnterested in the welfare'

of tEe cftfes aad villages of thfs state have an opportunity

to come fn Before our committee and testffy as to the validity

and merfts of the proposed legfslatfon. I think that was

wrongy. and I'çhink thq consideratipn of this bfll withou:;. . . . : . . . . @ ' . . .! . . . ' ' @

Senator Parteees amehdaent ié wràng. ' So I Vould urge re-

spectively a11 the members of' the Senate to carefully cgn-* ..

sfder t1e resolution and the amendment of Senator Partee

and adopt it.

. PREStDENT:

Senator Saperstefn .

SENATOR SAPERSTEtN:

I also urge, ah, Mr. President and gentlemeny the

adoption of the amendment. I want to tell you too that I

have received many calls from many of'the professions in-

volved in this bill. And I have told them earnestly that

t appreciate their call, I appreciate their letter writing,

but I have worked too long and too hard, as mady of us

have: to secure home rule and I am not apt to give it up3 .

lfghtly under t'hese conditions. I urg*'you to support the '

amendment.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Dougherty. '

S'ENATOR DOUGHERTY:

M P esident member's of the Senate. I am not ar. r , .

constitutionat autsority. I beg to differ for a mom'ent

with my colleague, Senator Lyons. I'm looking at .the '

Constitutiony Article 7, Sectton 6, Powers of Home Rule

Units...vhfch states the Gen'eral Assembly by a law appraved

by the vote of threevfifths of the members elected in each

' house may dany or ltiit the power to tax and any other oower

of functioa of the home rule unft not exercised or performed

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b t h e S t a t e . I t wo u ld b e my o p i rt i o n , b a s e d u p o n t h al t t h a t, . . . $ .

. per.Nqpl rqp-ysll Bfed mvv: than a simple majority. 1 would

suggest that they examfne thfs sectfon of the Constitution to

deter=ine whetker or not it shall meet the necessary three-' ' -fffths '

'

RRESIDENT: .

Senator Eynes.

SENATOR EYNES:

Mr. Presfdent/members of the Senate. This legislation

- is not only unfortunate, in my judgment it constitutes a

gross mfspresentation. Various professional groups around

this state have been stirred up for polttfcal purposes with

threats, and suggestfons, that if this legislation is not?' fpassed that these professions are going to be licensed,

regulated: and taxed by every municipality in this state which

qua'lifies as a home..rule unit. That fs simply not the case.

' I have been cohtacted pe'rsonally by m'aay members o'f these'

./rofessions', and when we discussed the facts the support for

these bills waned; and I think it's important that the. ' .

fact's come'out. There wi1l be no revenue raisfng scheme

involved here. The Constitution clearly prohibits that.

Other than the one isolated instance in Harvey, Illinois,

which I think is perfectly explicable, ahd, in facty what was

doae there is not permissibley there is no example of the

abuse of these powers by any home rale uait. àad to take

txem away at this point when the people of the state o.f Illtaois

have recently spoken, I think would be tragic. LeL me just

mention'a couple of' questions that I see here as to the

f mp a c t 'o f th.is 1eg isl. a t f on . S e/er'a l '.p o iq t s have b e'en ma d e. already vfth respect to fair housing laws and anti-block '

bustfng legfslatioa and ordinances and so oa that exist in .

k municfpalîties. But 1et me ask you thfs. Ifould this act

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lfdate local zoning ordfnances insofar as they might Iinva

effect or regulato one of the nawed professions or businesses( . 'fn thfs bfll. r tkink they would. Would this legislatfon

invalfdate local buflding codes if those building codes 'I'

. . affected one of the named professions. I mentfon specifically. . . .. v . ., . . : . . j

nursing homes. Uould the very comprehensfve ordinances

adopted in Chicago and elsewhere to regulate nursing homes

and provide protectioa for the elderly be tnvalidated

under thfs statute7' I think those ordinances would be' j

' fnvalid, and certainly we should not be put in the position

of sweeping away these carefully thought out and very important'

regulations on a local level. Would traffic ordinances be

invalid if they interfered in any way with the operationi

with a named profession? Would other criminal statutes

be invalid? For example, municipal ordinances dealing with

fraudutent selling or with other fraudulent conduct? I think I

so. Would municipal consumet protection ordinances be . -

invalfd if they applied to the beauty operators or any other '* . j' jpamed professfon or business. listed in this bill? I think they

. clearly would. If fhis is chat we intend by this legislatfon, I

then I thfnk we are makiag the most sweepiag change made in

' Illinois government in the history of this state; and certainly II do not want to partictpate in it. Ano-ther example, and.

I coull go on and on and on with every area of municipal

regulatton, gun control ordtnances. Would those ordinances E

be effected insofar as detective agencies which are named

in this bill. I think the examples aée legend that can be

cfted to show how i11 advised this legfslation is. It's

' . . . an attempt to Cgafn pure political advantakex and I suggest

it be defeated. ,. ' j

4 I. P RE S IDE 2IT :

'. senator Nihill. . .

SKNATOR NIEXLL;

Ah, Mr. #rKstdaat, Seaators. First of ally Itd like

to get a lfttle attentton from this Senate here. Have the

Senators be seated. First of all, I support thfs a=endment

of our leader, Senator Partee. Ue have a great Eealth

Department in the City of Chfcago, policey ffremeny hoxsing

inspection. The great people of this state'voted for this...

FRESIDENT:

Just, letls kave some'order.

' SENATOR NIHILL:!

We voted on this- .the people of the State of Illino/isf. .'? . . . ' . . J 'whea we had the Constitutional Convention. If weVre not

going to abide by what the people want, t'hefr wishes, I

don't know why we can come down here aad tear this apart.

I think this is one of the most ridiculous things that could

ever happen heye. Where a few Senators can take away

everythfng that was 'done in the Convention. Now spwe of'you

gentlemea on the other side: your home rule whére you live,

and if this ever breaks through youlll have to face it.'

tI never get ,ap he.re. and talk very often, bu.t when you re

taking home rule away from the people in the State of Illinois

it is a drastic thiagf You got your health department Qhich

is gopd. When a few Senators come down here and they want

to take this away, this bill 3636...1 hope every man oh our

side gets up here and talks today regarding thté. This ls. '

.a bidiculous bill and without the amendments I don't know

where we are going to go, and I vote for the amendment.

PRESIDENT)

Senator Mccarthy.

SENATOR MCCARTEY:

I wonder if Senàtor Hynes is still here. Nell Senakor

Hynes isn't here, but on the amendment hadnet planned on

askiag any questtons because X did not have the annotated

statutes fn froat of Re with reference to...Oh, Senator Rynesy

I wonder kf you would =fnd yfeldfng to a question or two?

The question that I have relates to your assertion and you,

of course, are a professor of law. You raised the question,

dfd you not, tha: kf the State of Illinois took away a11

of the regulatory powers, say of the Ctiy of Decatur: that

that may...

PREStDENT:'

Just a woment. For what purpose does seaator Bernin

arise?

SENATOR BERNING:

Mr. Presideaty members of the body. I respectfully!

direct this inquiry...are we not considering the amendment

only and not the body of the bill itself?

PRESIDENT :

That is correct.

SENATOR BERNING:

Well Mr. President and members of'the Senate,

respectfully suggest that there is nothing that anybody on

that stde or this side can say that ts going to make any

difference in what we do. The only thing that you on that

side are successfùlly doinr is filibustering and

PRKSTDENT! ..

'What is your point of order Senator Cherry?

SENATOR CHERRY:

Senator Berning has said there isnft anything that any

member of thfs body can say to make anybody change their

vote. and think that's comtrary to our rules. Every

member has a right to speak on the issue, and that is precisely

what Senator Nccartkyts doing.

PRESIDENT:

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'

:Well tkat s not Kxactly a point of order and nor is

Senator Berntagta, aad ualess Senator Mccarthy shoutd confine

htmself to the amendment and ff that is the pofnt of order.

the Senator will conffne hfmself to the amendnent.

SENATOR MCCARTEY:

Welly Ilm quite familtar with that rule. I dontt

think anyone suggested before I even got my'first question

on the item of regulation propounded to a professor of a

law school that you .have th'e povers of the. occult to divine

what my question is, but ff after I propound the question,/

'

Senator Berning, you think it has nothing to do with the

question of regulation, then Itm sure t%e Chair will enter-

tain that point of order. Noc, may I proceed with the

questfon?

PRESIDENT:

You may proceed: Senator.

SENATOR MCCARTHY: . . .

' All right; 'thank you very' much. Now,. Senator Hynesz

you raised an interesting point here that if the power to

. regulate ts denied the City of Decatur on these enumerated '

' licensed groups, that the question of local zoning ordinances

and their inapplication may be not applied uniformly through-

. out the home rule unit. Novz, my specific question on that

point...do you remember the point you raised? è1y specific'

. . questfon on that Point is this: Real estate people some-

. times do business in a real estate office. It so happens. j

I live in Decatur in an area that's zoned for residentiali

only. In your opfnfon, if a11 of the powers to regulate' '

j. '

. . the busine:ss of real estate are taken away from the city '

Iand vested fa the State, and the State does not enact a.zoaing

' ' ordfnance for the wYyle State, then what's to prohibit a

real estate company from buildtng a buildtng and conducting

. . ' ' - 166- .

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a bustness naxt to my louse7

'RESIDENI)

Senator Hynes.

SENATOR EYNES:

.' ' I have....senator. I have grave fear .there wouldntt bç .. . h . ' - v .* . '

anythfng to prohfBit tt because, I thfnkj that any attempt

by : munfcipaltty.'to. dq so would be regulation of that '

business; and if a municipality attempts to regulate a

. business or profession thaifs mentioned. xnd the real estate'. profession is mentioned they are...they would be in contra-

dfction of the language of the statute which prohibits

r6;U1ZViOR.

PRESIDEXT:

Sqnator Mccarthy. '

. SENATOR MCCARTHY:

I p/esume that if I propounded to you a question about,' . r. ah, the heighth of a building where there is''a locaà ordinanee .

' ' ldin and an architect...say,that ltmits the heizhth of a bui g,

' , like .on the approaches to an air/ort...say there is zoning

' on approaches to the airport where heights of butldings are

limited by virtue of home rule unit height limitation or-

dinances. And an architect who would be Jxempt under this'

. Act, would he, ff'he build a building. htgher than that '

' . which was prohibited by the appropriate tocal heizht

limftatfon ordinancey be imnune from a charge of violation

' . unless the State of Illinois did, in facty go in and sub-

stitute such a proper height of buildiag ordinance? .

' PRESIDING OFFICER: (Senator Bruce) '' '' Senazor.Eines. ' ' '' '

. . . J 'SENATOR HYNES: .

' ' I thtnk in thos'e circumstanqes, the sole remedy of .. ?. . ' ' ' ' '. tEe muafcl'paltty would be a'gqfasc the prpperty owner.' There .

. . . . 16y. . .

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would be no Reans of enforcfng these ordinances with'respect. .

. q. .' to the arcEttect. And the owner, unfortunately, is not in

r '

a posftion that th& architect is, so that I think a problem

would arise thare also. . E

#

'

FRKSIDING .OFFECER: Csenator Bruce)

. Senator Mccarthy.

SENATOR MCCARTHY: . . . . ' .

Then, on the amend=ent Senator Berning, I can ask a>

'

couple of more questions just rhetorically. Suppose we haveL

. a doctor who vishes to go to St. Maxy's Hospitat in Decatur

. and h: uses the cfty street. Therets a city street ordinance .. ' . ' . ' . t ' +. . . %

fa the Decatur that regulates the speed in resfdential

areas at 30 miles per hour. This doctor gets a call from/! lhis exchange to go out to St. Mary's Hospital and he violates

that eity ordinance, 45 or 50 miles, and he is charged with

violating it: he can assert as a defense, that he was en-

aaged fn the practice of mediciney and thereb# was'imkune from .

prosecution. That's a question...that's a possible defense .

' that can be interposed.' We can qo on and on about how real

estate salesmen.'..there's a local ordinânce agafnst...tiere's

a local ordinance against...welly t'm aot going to use real

estate salesmen, I'm going to...yesy real estate salesmen,

i is a local ordinance against disorderly 'conductthat t ere

and disturbing the peace. Disturbing the peace, Mr. Presi- '

. . dent, and an insurance salesman begins a door-to-door .

solicitation at 2 o'cloek in the morning. He disturbs the

peace in the'neighborhood; hees charged with v'iolatfon of

a local ordinance, which is a regulatory power; and he claims '' ' ' ' 'tmmunrty because Eie-city or'the Aome rule unft has ho ' ..

. ' ' . .. . ' . .

. ' power to regulate him fn the conduct of his insurance'

. ç 'bùsfness. %ha questions could go on and on. You caa even ''

. ' . Ret fnto a11 sorts 'of situatioés but. the essential cuesrion '

' - 168- ' '

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lMr. Prasidept, i. s tkat the term regulation, which is t' 1.attempted to be re=oved by this a=endxeat is an extremelyl

daagerous tero to leave in the bilt. %he amendment, in the

fnterest of =afntafnfng a system of 1aw and order which

every.sody.r öeïieve. is for equal 1gw Fnforcement. no.:$ >=. %'. . e r . F œ ' . e :

munfties, that thts amendment should be adopted.

PRESIDIHG OFFICER: (Senator Bruce)

Senator Mccarthy, have you concluded? Senator Rock.

SEXAXOR ROCK:

Yes, Mr. President and membe<s of the Senate. Speak-

ing to the amendment...excuse ne, speaking to the amendment

by which we are attempting to strike the word regulatey

I wonder if Senator Lyonsy who is the erstwhile Vice Presidentfp

' of Con-con, would answer a question or two?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (Senator Bruce)

Senator Lyons. Senator Rock would like to ask you a

question. Will you yield?

SEXATOR ROCK?

Itm wondering, Senator; wetre concerned pretty much. with Section 6, which is headed: Powers of a Eome Rule

Unit. And if I might for a moment, 1:11 just read part of

Sectfon a. It says: A county which has a chief executive

officer xelected by the electors of the county.k .can you tell

me, strj how many home rule unit countie: rheçe are?

PREVIDINC OFFICER: (Senatgr Bruce)

Senator Lyons.

SEHATOR LXONS:

A h t Senator Roc'k there fs only one county int t e momen , ,

the State of Illinoii- wllich'has an e.lected chief executive

' offîcer. That. ts to say an elected chfef executive offîcerz

elected by the peoplez th#t's yhe County of Cook,

PRESIDING OFFICER: ' (senat'yr Brude)

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Senator Rock.

SENATOR ROCL:

Nov, tkfs sectfon goes on to say: and any munfcfpality

which ha: a population of more than 25,000...and those two

are deffned as home rule units. I'm wondering, sfr, why the .

Constftutfonal Conventfon did not, in fts wfsdom, ltmit or

deffne a municipalfty or circumscribe the definition of

Dunfcipality to include only those municipalities that have

a populatfon of, say, 1,000,000 or more. '

PRESIDING OFFICER: Cseaator Bruce)

Senator Lyons.

SENAIOR LYONS) .

Uelly the answer to that, Senator Rocky is this.

Originally, the home rule article provided that a11 municipal...

a11 municfpalities would have the home rule powers. This

evqked some intense. reaction in some areas, so the grant of

home rule powers vas then restricted to certain communitiea. '. . '

. . which had a higher population tùan a certafn tYreshold

! 'ffgure which I dpn t remember. ..l think it was about 100,000.

' When Ehat happened, many municipalitves were heard from

which expressed a desire to be granted the home rule powers,

so that the figure, 25,000 was ultimately fastened upon by

the Cpnveation as a reasonable figure at whicb to point...to

peg the grant of self-executing home rule power. I should

point this out. Any cpunty ia the state can get home rute

powers by ckoosing to go to a form of government which elects

the chief exeeuttve officer. Thatfs as it appli.es to counties.

Any municipal...any municipality...any cfty, town or

. ' . . .yillage.which has a opulatton...no matter what the popu-l!. .

. 7 lationzif it's uader 25,000, can get home rule powers by '

' ' voting afffrmatively in q referandum on the question. The .

communitfes over 25:000 have an autömatfc grant of home

. '' . . . . . ' .ï ' ' ' '

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. ' .. . '

:

rule povars. Tke ones under 25,000 can get ft simply

by sayfag, in a referendum they vant it. Those over 25.000

vhfch have t1e automatic grant can divest themselves of the

home rule povers any time they want simply by voting to do

' . . S0 at. a Teferendum. ' .'. ... ' . ' '

PRESIDKNT:

Senator Rock. ' ' '

SENATOR ROCK:

well then, juit to pu'rsue that for énother moment,

there is listed in the Handbook of Illinois Governmeat which' J

/is furntshed to each of us bv the Secretarv of State, some. . ' '

. . '' ' .

*' . /statistical tnformation. And one of the items listed there

says that incorporated municipalities, there are 1165 of

those. Now, under this Constitution, we could then have

1165 home rule units. Is that correct?

PRESIDENT: '

. . . ' - Senator Lyons. . . r

SENATOR LYONS) . '

Well, that would be so if a11 1165 of qthem called a

referendum and voted to take- .to geL the hone rule powers,

but under the self-executing provisions of thfs Constitution,

at the moment there are only 58 communities that have a

population in excess of 25:000. %he 1165...of the 1165,. a11

' but 58 4o not have home rule powers aud would have to hold .

a referendum and vote affirmatively on the question of

whether or not they gould get the home rule powers. They

can do that under the provisions of the new Constitution.. '

PRESIDENT: . .

Senàtor Rock. . ..

SENATOR ROCK:1

ThK point Ien'making and I Lhank the good Senator an.d .

' ' 'a forme: Con-con delegatc for his answers t'he 'point happens

; to be thay the definition of a home rule municipality .i . ,

. . . . yy1. .

. '

.y .

' j

1-- Lould'well kavc circumscribed only the City of Chicago, but, ,

iq fagtv) tkere ware so=e 58 other munfcfpalitfes who. in

fact, wanted these types of povers. And it seems to me that

ify in f#ct, we do not adopt this amendmeat, we are doing

' a great.dîsservtce. to the.municipalitiey of the State of

rlltnots, not only the Ctty of Chfcago, of the whole entfre

State. . ' .

PRES:DENT:

Senator Merritt. ' .

SENATOR MERRITT:'

jWell, Mr. President: just as a point of fnquiry...maiybei

. . / .I can't read this but as I understand thisy arenlt we ad-

dressing ourselves to this amendment: .

PRESIDENT:

lhat fs correct. .

SENATOR MERRITT:

. . '. It seems likey.to me., that all the debate has beben on

something diffetent than this a6endment. 'It töoks like to '

me ff Vhat youêre doing is taking out the regu'lating powers

and adding in the licensing. I'd just like to know if

that is correct. Is that what this amendment does?

PRESIDENT: . '. '

Senator Lyons) do you care to respond to Senator .Merritt?

HATOR Ly0Ns: ' .sE .

If I could hear' the question? Senator Partee offered

t.lt amendment . I àon ' t s ee 'iïim at the momen t , .i$ u t I î 11 ' t'ry .9 . . .

t.o artswer tlke ques t i on . Oh > here he f s .

. PRESIDENT: .' . Senator Merrftt.' . . ' ' ... .

SENATQR MERRITT: . ' ' .

' ' . . .and if that be the case, a1l the debate I've heard

L s on L h e home ru le p owers . . .'. . . .

. . . jya. ' .

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PRKSIDENT:

Sonator Partee. '

EENATOR PARTEE: '1he amendoent addresses ftself to the concept of the

. . ' . . : b i 11 . ànd t f. tat el. t.i g eni 1:y. d i s c us s t he ame n dme n t , .t: he r e , 1

will naturally be references to how the amendment affects

' the bill and the concept involved. .'

PRKSIDENI : '

For what purpoée does Senator Horsley arise?

SENATOR HORSLEY:'

. . .inquiry. Over the past 25 years, I've been through'

many of these filibusters, and we.are now faced with a real

donaybrook of a fflibuster; and I'm just wondering if Mayor

Daley is witling to send dogn some cots and some fried

chlcken so we can have a little bit to eat because this is

clearly his filibuster. And I think the people ought to

' k t:ab wefre filibusEering il ordek to' he1 ' MiyMk D&le ' '. . n OW . . . 1) y , . .. . % ' ' ' ' .

' and I'd like to inquire if you have sent for cots, as we

used to do in the o1d days, and something to eat because some

Of us are hungry and sleepy.

PRESIDENT) '

Senator Rock. What is your point of order.

SEXAIOR ROCK :

Well, I will say it's a point of peosonal privilege. Now,

I just spent the best part of 10 minutes explaining to the

good Senatofs, and I'm sorry Senator Horsley wasn't listening, .

that there are some 58 municipalities involved in thts amend-

ment, and if youere going to take the power to regulate for

' the health and sâfety of Ehe people awayy you' should know

that this does not apply to the City of Chicago.) '

, 'PRESIDENT: 6 ;

Senator Knuppel. .

. . . : ' ' .

SKNATOR KNDPPEL;

Ue1'l, based upon the remarks of Senator Rorsley. Itml'not very famfltar vith anything known as a filibustery and

if that's what's coming off, It= hungry) and I've missed

my supper and my doctor is going to be angry, so I move that

ve adjourn. Ue?ve nou reached the hour of 7:15, and I

thought we got an understanding the other day that probably

wetre going to treat ourselves, at least decently and like

human beings, so I m'ove that we adjourn until 10 o'clock

tomorrow morniag.

PRESIDENT :

Motion to adjourn until 10:00 in the morning. 1he...

it is npt debatable. The Secretary will tall the roll.

. SECRETARY:

Arrington, Baltz, Berning, Bidrzill Bruce Carpentier,; #

'

Carroll, Cherry, Chew, Clarke.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Clarke.

SENATOR CLARKE:

Is ft permissable to explain my vote'y Mr. President.

PRESIDENT:

It is. '

SENATOR CLARKE: ,

Well, Mr. Presideaty it': always a matter of whose ox

is being goredy as we say, and we had a filibuster a couple

of days ago on that stde of the aisle. And we tried to

resolve that so that we could get down to imporLaut buslness

and what have we had.n what have we had...wetve had bills

. from postponed consf4eratfon that h.ave been beàtea before, 'aùd

they got beaten again, and we have had a11 sorts of garbage.f

Nou, we feel this is an impprtant issue. We felt that was

an fmportant fssue, .but if the other side szants to filiéuster

- 1 7 Ib -

this session to an endy in order to protect Chicago, then

they are going to have to bear the responsibility, and we

c/rtafnly ought to vote no.

SECRETARY:

colltns, Coulson, Course, Davidson, Donnewald, Douiherty,

Egan, Fawell, Gilbert, Graham, Groen, Hall, Harris, Horsley,

Hynes...

PRESEDENT:

senator Eynes.

SENATOR EYNES:

In explaining my vote, I?d simply like to say that

Senator Clarke's descriptton of bitls that have been on

postponed consideration, that have been threshed out before,

that are garbage and so on and so forth, is perfectly apt

for the. legislatiop we?rù eonsidering now. vote aye.

SEtRETARY:

.'

. Johns' Knuepfer, knuppelw..

PRESIDENT:

Senator Lnuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

didn't make thfs motfon as something frivolous.

I've explained .to this body and Senator Chew has explained

to this body, we can never gatn any respect if we mtstreat

ourselves. If we don't appreciate and respect durselves,

b d ' else is gotng to. .1 said. the other day h.ereno o y ,

h t ie treat ourselves worse than ànyone. we' don't taket a . .

decent meal breaks; we can't get decent food here fn the

restaurant; we dontt get deceùt hours sleep. Some of

us.'have medical problems, ând this bill just'dpesn't.

# . # y#J u s t d o e s n t w a r r a n t i t r . . I t s . b e e n u P

or 5 tim*s tf wefrb being held here as supposedly political

hostages for blackmatl of some kipd, when tnere's 58 com-. t. . ' .

'

munitiè#, including the Ill.tnois Municipal Leaguey who kup-

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Iported home rule whtch can't hardly...which canet hardly be

considercd an arm of tke Democrattc party. And 57 of those

communities are downstate. r fatend and I said thts before, I). I

and r vent through ft in the Constftutional Conventiony when

the time comes to adjourn, T'm going to keep renewing this '

' motion. We can keep having roll calls. We can go on and

rafse hell here untfl midntghty but tTm goiùg to renew the

motion every five minutes. I vote aye.

SECRETARY: ' ' ' '

' . ..Kosinskiy Kusibab, Latherow. Laughlin, Lyons, McBroom,

Mccarthy, Merritt, Mitchler, Mohr, Neistein, Newhouse, Ni. illy/ .

O'Brieny Ozinga, Palmer. Partee...

FRESTDENT :

Senator Partee.

SENATOR PARTEE:

When Senator Harris said that the hour had passed three,

' ' ' . an d lfe v.'q n tfe d ' t o c a 11 t h e .b i'l l i t w.as s ub s t a n t i a 11y 1 at e r .

than that. red counted the votes, tooy aad I'm sure that

he was withholdfna it until someone got back here wbo he

was countfnr on to support it. Welly I don't know why it .

wasa't called earlier but we were here. %he only reason wîy

Itm gofng to vote to adjourn is because the leakership on

the other side and the leadership on this side are scheduled

to be at a meeting...a eonference comiittee on a very important

subject at 7:30 this evening. I vote aye.

SECRETARY:

' . . .Rocky Romanoy Rosander, Sapersteiny Saviçkas, Smith, '

Soper, Sours... '. .. . ., '

jPRESIDENT: . . . . ..

' -''. ' '

Senator Sours. '

. . . .: . :SENATOR SOURS; . .

Very brtefly. ..'; thzho we ought to settle fn our o<n .

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l ' . '' ' ' ' '

minds once and for all, when you talk about licensfngj youCre. -- l

apso talkfng abour revenue. My figures suggest that ''the-. -. . .-- . * ' ' -. . . . j . . . - - !

City of Chicago alone gets $8,000:000 as license fees from'

j. its retaîlers. And anybody on that side tells me it spends

i$8,000,000 to regulate it, I'm gonna gfve him the Baron Minch- I

ausen award for 1971. To go a little fàrther, why I don't

believe we should adjourn.

' PRESIDEXT: .

What is your point of order?'k

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

That has nothing to do with adjournment.

PRESIDENC:

1he Senator will confine himself to the adlournment

/ lution.yreso

' SENATOR SOURS: ' '' t ' '

Mr. President and Senatorsy I think wevve heard enough

. .: from the Petetsburg. flash today but I would like to makç

- t i ï. s c o mme n t .. . . .

PRESIDEKT:

' For w'hat purpose does'senator Knuppel arise.

SENATOR KNUPPEL: .

A point of order. My speed on the track has nothing

. at a11 to do with the adjournment resolution.

PRESIDENT: ' .

Senator Sours. .

SENATOR SOURS:

I dontt think we should adjourn, and I'm going to vote'

against this motion becaupe. I yould ltke to know, before

. we' adjourn', how much a tavern owner, for example, has .to pay

off to recefve'a lfquor lictnse. I'm not done yet. '

PRESIDENT: f .

' The pofntv..the Senator willnconffne himself to the

. , . . - 177. . .. ' . . ' . . *

'

'

adjouraoant resolutfon.'

fAATOR souRs :sl

r do not vant support thfs motion, Mr. President,

because I'td like to knou how much a pèoperty ovner haq to pay'

ildtng permit to p.ui. a driveway in.hfs alderman to get a bu

That tsn't all.

PRESIDENT :

Senator Partee.

SENATOR PARTKE:

All of these innuendosy insfnuations, and unbuttressed

statements are absolutely out of order on thfs roll call

which is simply aa adjournment motion.

PRESIDEXT:

The Senator has a minute and a half to speak yet. He

will confine himself to the adjournment resolution.

SENATOR SODRS:

Itm going vote on'. this. resol'qtion because I'd

ttue to unow also what a 'builuing ouner is requlred by tqe

Chicago Building D'epartment to put in a ftre escape.

PRESIDEXI:

Seaator Sours will confine himself to the motion...

that fs...

SENATOR SOURS:

Mr. President, the worthies on the other side know exactly

what T am talking.about. lightnihg were to strike here...

if'lightning were to strike herey can assure youy Senator

Lockjaw, you couldn't be miésed. I vote no.

PRESIDENT:

The Senator fs öut of order The Senator is out of. . !

order. Continue witl the roll call.

SKCRETARY:

swinarskf, Vadalabene,

.. 1 7 8 -

FRESLDENT:

Senator Coulson.

SENATOR COULSON;

. v 'r don t belfeve r am recorded as having voted. I would4 . . '

ttke to exflatn my vote. 'Nhe Pro'lem kaid à moment ag'o thaé '

iks reason for votfng was that an important meeting of leader-

hip had b e e n c a 11e d f o r 7 : 30 : and I cfte cke d t h e r e c o r d s fn Jls

it ' s my imp r es s i oa that I q.m s t i1l a par t o f the le aders hi p .

I knov nothing of such meeting. t would most humbly inquire

when I am goiag to be privileged to be notifted of this l/

' leadershlp aeetfng vhfch is to occur in two mfnutes. )'

PRESIDENT:

Senator Partee.J

SERATOR PARTEE:

Well, I didnlt know what time the meeting vas going to be

and I asked my Secretary to call the Speaker of the Houses

and he told me that it 'was going to be at 7:30, ahd I

suppose if you had made the same inquiry you would have gotten

the saùe fnfornatfon. I assgme eha: Yhe rappor: that exfses

between you had indtcated that...l just assumed that he had

already told youy otherwise I would have.

PRESIDENT:

SBnator Coulson.

SERATOR COULSON:

What is the meeting, and where is it?

SERXTOR PARTEE:

Itês the ethfcs meetfng, fn M-1.

SERATOR COBLSON:

For the qthics committee...fs the eihics board meeting

as a board to considex some case? Is that the point why...

SENATOR PARTEE::

. Nex ftes a conference cuomtttee on the ethics legislation....

. - yyq.

on 3700.

-PAESIDKNT:

Senator Coulson.

SENATOR COULSON:

Well, whfch group fs this?

.PRESIDENT:

Senator Coulson...senator

SENATOR PARTEE:

From your

Your being at lunch with us today just caused me to think;?

momentarily that you were on ity but it's Senator Harris and. t

Senator Clarke who are actual members of the committee. Noy

ft's Coulson and Harris...llm sorry. You know, tiey a11

took atike.

PRESIDZXT:

Senator Walker...senator Walker.

Partee.

side it's Senator Clarke and Senator Harris.

S.ENA'C OR WALKER :

Mr. Presfdenty' and members the Senate, abcut this

same time yesDerday the Senator from the ocher side the

afsle...l'm gonna have this rule down by heart. Number

he's about to violate it again. I ealted the Chair's attention

to it. He wants to speak twice on the same subject. 0h we1l...

wbat Ehe hell.

P RESIDEKT :. . . '

The pofnt of order is nèè included in rhat, but the

rule will be enforced.. 'Senator Partee.

SENATOR PARTEE:

0n the wall in ty office is a sign which says I admit.

I made a mistake as beiug the six most f'mportant words in

the Eaglish taaguaga, and I thtnk, sir, 1 have made one and*

vant to correct ft. Just secondk ago my Secretary called

and said: Are yop goipg to the Board of Ethfcs meetfng at

- 180-

. *

. l1 !7:307 : said; No, you told me that it was the confe'rencet

' . . j-committee. She said: Wells I made a mistake. So ip.oaking '

a mfstake r have made a =istake fn telling you that that '

vas vhere I vas going. So I xanted to 1et you know.

FRESIDENT: i' I

For vhat purvpose does Senator Knuppel arise?

SENATOR KNUPPEL: .

Personal prfvflege. Yesy certainly...

PRESIDENT: ' i

The Senktor...here...hand me those.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

1...1 have a personal privilege...personal prfvilege.

PRESIDENT: . '

1 .? The Senator is recognized. '

SENATOR KNUPPEL: . '

I thought 1 distinctly heard Senator Sours say something ;

' . about Senator Lockjaw.' .Now Senator Lockjaw is my horse, and

I resent him saying something like Ehat abovt my horse. I

PRESIDENT:

It's...Let's a11 of us...yes..'.a11 of us' use some charity

ff we can. 0a that question, the yeas are 25, the nays are 27. !

The motion to adjourn does not prevail. For what purpose

does Senator Nohr arise? .

. . Welly Mr. Presideat I'have been quite patient here a1:

' day I think. I have been on the preferred list since three

Q'clock, and I was supposed to be about numfer four at that

tfme. I think there was about forty bills that'have' been

. heard sinèe that tfme and I just wonder if I might go out

. of the order, whatever éhe order might be, and have Houàe. %Bill 3600 called. rt vould take five mfnutes and... . .

PRKSTDEXT: ' .

. . . , ' . . .- 1 8 1- .

.. ' . . ' .. . . '

)

'

l

!k

'

lI

This is up to t1e leadership on both sides...the...

Sçnator Partee.

CSENATOR PARTEK:

Yes, I would agree. 1'. have felt just a little personally

f ued Because he iadn't gotten a chance to, and r doiet knowP q

what happened, but r have no objection.

PRESIDENT:

Is there oblectfon? I gather that there is objection.

Seaator Mohr...senator Mohr.

' SENATOR MOHR:

I would like to know then vhat the order of the bills

are that we are going to hear because I think we are entitled

I b ittingto that Mr. President. Like I said have een s;

here quietly tfsteaing to the same people time after time,

a11 day lonq. and T have been told that my bill would be

heard. And I have been told that from b0th sides of the

aisle. Now, I have bee; patient, and if you can tell me

about what time I can expect to have it called or what number

j ' .I aln i a , I t h in k t h a t I am p r o b a b ly a h e a o f S e n a t o r K n u e p f e r ,

Dy good fri>nd from Dupage. t have sat and listene; to him

quite a bit today. A11 I am asking for is five minutes and

I would like yome idea when 1 might be able to expect that.

PRE6IPRNT:

Well just a moment. The Chair has a list that is pro->

'

vfded by leaders on b0th sides. From time to time the leader-

ship on b0th sfdes tells me to call knother bill prior to

the one that's oa the list, ahd I rotate from one side of

the afsle to the other side fm calling the bills. And if you

o m e' u p h e r e ' y o u c a n s e e t h e a r r o w' s . . . I t l s t r u e y o u w e r e% ,

number four and there have bèen at least a dozen bills called

ahaad of yours. Senàtor Lyons.

SENATOR LYONS:

- 182- .

i o

1Mr. President, several hours ago when I vas tempbrarily

' jin tYe Ckair, Senator Mohr came up to me and asked me where

- .- - - - --. -....-.- -s. .--- . lEouse Bfll 3600 stood in the lineup of bills. I said that

ft vas on b0th lists...that it was number four on the list

teadered by' tke Rcpublican leadership, and'that I thought tt

would be reached fa a very few mfnutes. Nov, I said that

because I thought that was uhat was going to happen. It

has not happened, and I would like to make an inquiry of

the Chair to this af'fect: I szould like to know what it is

that Senator Mohr has to do in order to get..oif be wants

to do...ia order to get House Bill' 3600 called right now,

because if he does: 1'11 support him in that effort.

PRESIDENT:

It takes a majority vote of those present to move out

pf the order o.f regutar bustness. Senator Harris

SENATOR HARRIS:

Mr. President you 'would'have to be on..qyou would

have to recognize the persbn Jor that motion, and would

just say to you Mr. President, that yesterday this bill xas

dn third reading, and we got info a discussion about whether

we would talk about this whole series, and would I agree

to bring them back because of amendment that the other side

wantedy and T agreed. to that. And I agreed when we got to...

and there was recognition by the President Pro Tem to. pro-

ceed to 3636,' and the amendments and the discussion, and much

of the tfme has been contrfbuted to this discussion oh this

amendment by Senator Lyons And the matter before us on!

second readfng ià 3636. don't know that any person can

. be recogntzed exçept to discuss the amendment that is before

the Senate, and that's the issue before us excepty of course)

a motfon that takes p'recedence that you have recognized.

But tke order of business that 'we are on is second readingy

.- 18 3-

and I assu=e tt's ameadment numbcr one, offered by Senator

Partee.

FRESLDENT:

Yes, this fs correct. At the same tfme: any Senator may

at any tfme move for the majorfty of those present to joout of tha regular order of business for this purposez or

to proceed from one order of busfness to the other; but the

matter before tYe body right now is amendment number one to

Eouse Bi11 3636. Senator Egan is recognized.

' SENATOR EGAN:

Mr. President and members of the Senate, now that we

have returned to the calm deliberations of the matter at hand,

I would like to address myself to this fact. I am from

Chfcago, and I have heard tonight that this amendmen't affects,

. as the bill doesz only...this amepdment. affects only the city

of Chicago. ' There 'is in the booklet passed out by thè '

Secretary Statey a list of statistics, one of which shows

a's has been previously pèinted out. that there arç the

State of Illinoisa 1165 incorporated mun/cipalities..

those'of you today whö think that' this amendment applies

only to Chicago, I address this fact to you...that 1165

municfpalfties today have regulatory powers. This amendmeat

affects a11 of them...not just Chicago.

PRESIDENT:

Is...For what purpose does Senator Knuppel artse?.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

Mr. President ve have been here twenty minutes now> ..

since I made my last motion to adjourny and I am much

hungrfer than I was and much moçe ill. I move that'we adjourn

until ten o'clock tomorrow morning.

'RESIDENT:

Welly the Chafr is going to rule that we have' voted on

- 184.

that motton just recently, and froR time to time I am will-

ing to recogntze tlat motioa, but I think we have just

recently dfsposed of fe.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

Then I appeal your decfsion.

PRESLDENT:

No. There has been no intervening business and the

Chair will not recognfze that motion at this time. Youq.qfs

there further...ttes' good t'o have support from the former

speaker. r appreciate that. Them..senator Neistein.

SENATOR NEISTEIN:'

4Mr. President and members of the Senate. 1 d

ask Senator Clarke a question. Senator Clarke, while wedre

on this question of home rule and the ne< Constitution could#

y'ou tell me how much money you'asked'for. When I say

o u :L d o n ' t me an y o u p e r s o n a l l.y y b t! t' y o u w'e r e t h e s p o n s o ry y .

of those bittsy and I was the opponent of all those bills

and the opponent of.calling the Constitutional 'Codvenfion,. ;

and an opponent of having a new Constitution. Uhat was

your fnftial request for money?

PRESIDENT:

What...to vhom...senator Groen.

SENATDR CROEN)

Mr. Presfdent, pn point of personal privilege. 1he

hour is latey minds are frayed, they're tired. We've goL work.. * .

d l 'to o . .If we re gof ng to do f t , we should addres s ours elves

toward that end. rçpeatedtyy ald I would again rençw

to you, Mr. Presïdçnt and Lo the President Pro Tempore, thet .

rules under which w'e operate are completely inadequate to

couéuct the bu.. a delibcratlve

wtth demeanor, with purpose that the people of this State

have a right to expect. Now, if vetre goiag proceed

L 1. 8 5 -

an orderly manner to attend to the business for which we are

here, then YK should stay; but if we are gofng to contfnue

tlfs frtvolity aad thfs gatety, then we do a disservice to

the People of this State. We do a...

PRESEDENT:

Senator Groen has the floor.

SENATOR GROEN:

And we do a disservice to ourselves and the reputation

of this body. It seems to'me that we shouqd make a choice.

We should proceed aad do the job wetre. here to do: or we/

should adjourn until tomorrow morning. Again, I would imp' loref

both the Chafr and the President Pro Tempore, as I have re-

peatedly done to appoint a special committee of this body

to study and to revise the rules of this body that we may

prevent epfsodes such as this. Thank you.. . @

PRESIDENT:

Senator Neistein.

SENATOR NEISTEIN:

Mr. Presfdekt. This has nothtng to do with the bill,

but I back Senator Groen al1 the way wi:h his suggestion

because we dfscussed that earlier todayy aad Ifm certainly

in favor of his position. We heard nothingy somebody'said

garbage today, and how true it was. Bills that were on

third reading, 'postponed consideration, hashed and rehashed;

and t.don't knov why they calleé this. Legislature into'

session and held them here a11 day just to hear these matters

when there were real important major issues that are facing

the Legislature. But to get back to my initial questioa,

Senator Clarke, I?m leadia'g up. to something and it has to

ù l h n I asked Senatordo wfth the amead eat Senator Eors eyt w e)

' Clarke what the initial request was for =oney to call a

.. coYs'iitutional conventton.. '

'

; ' ,

t PRESEDENT :

Senato r Clarke .

SENATOR CLARKE:

Twelve Dillton.

' FRESIDENT:

' Senator Neistein.

, SENATOR NEESTEIN: ' '

Did you say twelve million7 Aad how much additional

appropriations, defi'cit ap/ropriatfons were we called upon''

' aftef that initial 'outlay and expenditure?

FRESIDENT:

' Senator clarke.

SENATOR CLARKE: '

. Mr. Presfdent, I think this is out of order.

PRESIDENT: . ':

The Chair..alem not sure what direction Senator Neistein

. . is gotng. Senator Neistein.

SENATOR NEISTEXX) . '

I ' 11 't e l 1 o u t he d i z;e c t i'o a T. f m g o i n g . N umb e r 1 Iy ,

' oppose' Ehe consf.itutional.conventton). and'l opposed spe'ndtng

a1t that money; and 1 warned at the time that what was asked

in the inftial appropriation was only a drop in the bucket.

. T.h a t !c) e ' d b e b a c k t o g i v e mo r e a n d m o r e mi 1 1 i o n s . N ow v lny

o i n t a n d t h e d i r e c t i o n. 1. ' !it g o i a g , M r . P r e s 1. d e n t , y o u ' r e' n o tP

folloving my direction. Mr. President. Thank vou for look- . ' '

fng my way.

PRESIDENT; .

Someone... . '

, SENATOR NEISTEIN: . . ,

The direction I7m going aow..vthe directioa I'm going... '

' PRESIDENT: '' .

' ' ' ' Priceed senator Ixmx listening to #où.. y . :. .. : ' ' *

. . - yay-

j ' . . ' ' . .: ' . . .

SENATOR XKISTKXN;

There''s so. much noise on tkis side. I can't hear any-

thfng. I canet...The direction I'm going is thisy Mr.

Presideat; that if we paid and spent 12 or 20 million dollars

or vhaeever'ft came to to call a Constitutional Convention,

and then to have the Constitution ratiffed by the people,

then wesre derelfct fn our duty ff we kant to abrogate the

work wefve spent the money for, and if the Constitutional

Conventfon came out 'and the' Constftutfon that uas a product

of the' Convention and whidh was approved by the people byl' /referendum; and if we're going to abrogate thefr work and now

. Ia short time after the Constitution is adopted, if wetre

going to change the terms of the Constitution relating

to home rulez wefrp doing a disservtce to the people of the

State. keere throwing out a11 the miqlions of dollars vheh

there's people who are poor, that are starying and haven't

got jobs; when the students. are going to be charged

tuition and higher tuttion; and I think we should abide by

the decision of the refe.rendum and the money that we spent

to call this Constitutionaf Convention. And Senator#

'

Clarke, you were the moving Senator in that direction. I

complfment you for your tenacity in getting a11 those bills

through and spending all that money. I think we should

avail ourselves of the product through your great efforts

Herculon efforts, to get the Constitution passed. Let's

abide by what the Constttution says, namellu home rule fors

at present, 58 cities in the State of lllirois.

13 R.E S T. D E N I :

Is there Turther discussfon? Senator Partee may close

the debate. For that...motion is out of order, Senator

Knuppel. There has dot been interyaning business. Senator

Partee is recogntzed to'close the debate.

- 188-

. '

.

' SENATOR PARTEE:

' Unless Senator Earris wanked to speak...We've go&. .

. iourselves fnto sort of a tfzzy, bue for Re thfs ls a yery'' - '

. .. . . ... . . 1....importaat fssue. Maay references have been made here today

about the Mayor of one of the finest cities fn the world,

. and about his fnterest in the bill. I would point out that

he ks fnterested I a= sure as a Mayor of a home rule unity. ' #

and he is a member of the Municipal League Board, the Illinofs

Munfcfpal League Board of Directors. He is one of 38 members.

Chicago has 1 vote on that Board. The vote of the Illinois'

Munfcipal League Board of Directors was unanimous in opposition

to this bill. There were 58 municfpalities, 57 other than

Chièago, which will be deprtved of basic home rule powers; who

' vill be deprived of the poltce power that they have always

possessed and enjoyed in the interest of protecting the healthyl2the welfare, :he morals of the persons who reside within the

confines of those Dunicipalities. In thïs city: Springfield:'

rllinois, had it not been for the police power of this cityy .

' hundreds of people who wêre workiqg for a State' facility '

would have had their health an; lives endangered if we .

' ' Qere dependfhg only.on t.he S'tate of Il'linois. Senator Knuppel

made the point that at the Lelaad Hotel the other day, Com-

missioner Knox came in and had the Judgment to protect the

health and welfare and safety of the people fn Springfietd

who were employed there under hazardous and ruinous conditions.

' Thfs uasn't some outside entity which bad taken over the

Leland Rotel; this was no commercial enterprise that had

taken over' the Leland Hoteli' this was no business engagùment

that had taken qver the Leland Hotel. This was a branch of

the Illfnois government, a State agencyy if you please, the Illfnofs

Commerce Commission. You talk about the State preempting the ''

rtghts of ehe cfey, and here ks a State agency endangering theh

. 1lfves and velfpre aad well betng of persons who are emplcylq by

a Srate agencys vorkinc almost vithln the shadow'of the

- 189- .. ' . ' *

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capitol. And you would take away from the' city of spring-

fteld tke right to protect tts ctttzens. zt's unbeltevable;

ites unthinkable to take away the bastc rights whtch a city

id i i'thas to protect and shelter those persons who res e n .

Therees this conversation about harassment; therets this

rsatfon about shakedolzns; tiere's this coaversationconve

about a cfty wanting to use these powers for some scurrilous

' or nefarious purposes. You can say tkings lïke that all

day long. I suppose it goe's over very well fn a polftfcal

eting when there's no one there to challe'nge it, but I'veDei

noticed time and ttme agatn that when these statements ari. /

madey they are leaeral accusationsy innuendos, and basically .

gossip. I hear no statements which would show the truth

of those remarks. If this is so true, it this is so wide-

spread, 'give some 'examples. Tell about some things that havp

fn fact been recbrded. It just simply isn't so and when'l '

stand here, I stand here not only for the people who reside

in Chicago. but to bexprotecefve of the people in the muni- .' w::w i' ( .7 '.'' .' cipalities and home rule units ia this State poèers they have '

. .j ' .had and enloved for manv. manv vearg. qt zives ft to a centtal '

agencyp the Statey who has already shown us in Springfield

just last week their lack of concern. Government closest to

the people is that government which governs best and any

. home'rule unft vhere people sde everyday tae persons who. ' . :

are in charge of 'the operatibn bf that ctty, who are ia.

charge of its fire laws, vho are fn charge of tts health

lavs, rgho are in charge of its building laws. When people

see thep everyday, they are natur'ally more responsive to

thove people than some.bureaucracy vay doïzn in Springfield.

There are people who live in hamlets. fn tow'ns, fn vlllagesl '' - < .'.

' and cities in thts state who have never been to Sprtngfield;

vho have nevar.seen the second floor; who have never seen .

. - z:o-

: .w.xy .;. x . .... . : . . . ï .. . t a. . . - .. . . - ... . u = . - e . . . . . . . j z N Z, ' '; . u

*

1''''tYfà- Sutldfng in wkicN we no* seek to return to the people

' jtNa llkes that thcy 1ad prior to tke 1970 Constitutfqn. If

you came here and said, REere are many, Oany documented

cases of abuse, of foulaess, of ribald actiony'' then I

lt ' t'wduld say to you. Gentlemen, you have made a case. I

would say to you that perhaps it is in t'he best interest

of a1l of the people of this State that the State move into

this area and preempt this llcensiag and regulation power,

but no case has bee: made. l1l that has been done is to

'y.

speculate as to vhat mfghe happen; a;1 that has been done ts

to say ts that ft fs possible that they are going to do this,

that they are going to do that. Lee me say to you >ho say

to me that have had letter after leeter from the engineers#

fand from the doctors, aad from tNe nurses: and from a1l ofJ .these trades and professionsy that we must do this'because

this might happen; that I personallyy and f hope you will

exc.ûse the per'sonat reference, have oae of the greatest

lobbyist iu the world who asked me about thts bill everytime

she sees me; and she's at my home quite often, she is the

sister of my wifeu And she is a nurse, and everytime I

valk into that house from here whtch isn't very often

these days, she seems to know whea I'm coming home and she

seems to be there and she says to me, ''Uhat about those

preemptfon bflls?t' lnd I have explained to her over and over

aRain that municipalitfe; do not desfre to give up their home

rulqy but that if ihe day arrtves vhen municipalities abuse

that home rule privilege, when nunicipalfties :se that home

:: .rule privitege to the.distress of its cicizens. that the

Constftutlon then guaréntees the State the right to move fn

and protect the cttizens wNo live in those. municfpalities.

Thfs fs a good amendient; this ts a sound amendment. t have

not 6eard pne iota, or one word of contradict'ton of the points

- 191-

we've made in terms of not permttting the States to regutate

in tlis instaace. Lt has become aa emotional issue here; it

has become aa issue where people are reacting to organized

groups to t1e distress of people who are not organtzed, yet

untfl they find out what you have done to them; until they find

out thae hafr can stand on a barber floor six feee deep, and

the Mayor or the head of that local government unit must

stand idly by until the State eomes fn to do somethfng about

ft. You#ve not hear'd from the people of Springfield until

' they find out that if you tass this bill without this amendment

kthat Joe Knox could not have gone over to tke Leland Hote/

the other day and sent those people home from work.

PRESIDENT:

For what purpose does Senator Eorsley arise?

SENATOR.HORSUEY:

I arise on a.point of personal privilege.

SENATOR PARTEE:

Can your poiat of personal privilege wait ûntil I finish,

sfr?

. PRESIDENT:'

:he point of personal prtvilege cannot intetrupt

a member who is speaking. Senator Partee will continue.

SSNATOR HORSLEY:

I think that I have the right to interrupt somethihg

'tbat...

P RES I.D EN'J :

SenaLor/senator Partee may continpe.

SENATOR PARTEE:

For many years I believed that pepple, a11 people, should

have an equal opportuniuy for housfng and fneroduced ïn thfs. ;' ' Legislature on rany occasions? bills vzhich would have

'guarantèed fn my view a 'more equàl opportunity for housing: # .

:

= 1 9 g .

1for a11 peoplc. None of tkose bills ever passed at the

' $State levely :ut fn the tntervening periodp several EhingsEappened. Te got a decisfon from the Supreme Court whfch

was meanfngful in that ar&a. TNe Congress of the Unfted

States passed some legfslatfon whfch vas meaningful in that

area. The Constftution of 18j0, through the Constitutional

Convention, passed some'legislation which was meaaingful in

that area; but tn the' intervening period some 80 or 90

municipal units fn èhis State passed fair housing ordinances

and based on thcse fair housing ordinances, the. . .

FRESIDENT:

For what purpose does Senapor Eorsley arise:

SENATOR HORSLEY:

Germanes of the amendment under consideration and I

ask that he keep this..k

PRESIDENT:

1be Chair will xutt that it ié germane and the.

Senator may continue.

SENATéR PARTEE:

And under those fair housing ordinancesj the city has

the rïght to regulate the conduct of real estate broke'rs.

Wefre not talking about licensiag, ve're talking about regula-

tfon at thfs moment; and if you pass this bill without this

amendmenty you are destroying the fair housing ordtnance

in my town and'in 89 or 90 others. Maybe thatvs what. you

planred,to doi'maybe that's whatwyou want to do. T know not;

but thatls just oae example of hundreds.of pieces of legislation

.on the books fn municipal entftfes which has beeh paysed to

protect the health oL the Welfare or the morals of the people

who reside tn those enttties. And this piece of legtstation

v 'ls entfrely inirlcal to that purpose; this legtslation.kills

it all; thîs legtslation says to a city, 'tYou cantt. regulate

- l 9 3-

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it s now up to the State. Does the State fulfill a11 its' obltgattons fn regulatfon now. I tkfnk not. I can glve you

exaople after exa=ple of the failure of the State to do what

it is already oblfgated to do; and here you vould ad4 othert

thtngs a11 over the State for 58 municipalities. Where is

the regulation goiag to come from? Who's going to pay 'for

the regulation: Where fs the money going to come from...

PRESIDENT:

Just a moment, Senator Partee. For what purpose does .

Senator Groea arise?

SENATOR GROEN:

To inqufre of the parliamentarian the amount of ttme

still remaining stfll allotted. to Senator Partee.

. FRESIDENT:

' He has tvo mlnutes remaining.

SENATOR GROEN) .

. Thank you. .

. PRESIDENT: .

' Senator Partee may continue. ' ''

SENATOR PAXTEE: ' . '' ' The State wants mor/ duties, huh? I canlt believe thdt .

' this State is askfng for the duties of regulating 58 muni- ''

cipalities. 'lhe Governor says weXre broke weere going to be. ; .

broke. The Bureau of the Budget says that we donlt have the

money to do the things webre now obligated to do. And you. ' q. . .

. ' * ' '

would add an additfonal hurdiq.xa horrendrus b'U<den: o/ ' .

.' . regulating every sfngle one of qhese areas of concentzation

in professfons and trades to the State.. I can't believe

you intend to do it. If I must tell yo.u the truth, I think

that you don't evea plan to regulate i't. I think you planà. *

to use it for politiùal purposes. I think you plan to use it'

for patronage purpose.. I think you plan to take the bastc

right of a cfty to control ftself, a municipality to control

'

4--l9

v' . ' . . .

: ' w .*

ftself away from it, and that it is a rapacious, greedy

,grab to thc distress of every citizen in this State.

'RESIDENT:

For wkat purpose does Senator Donnewald arise:

SENATOR DONNEWALD:

r move the.prevfous question, Mr. President.

m PRESIDENT :

Mot ton f or tlte previous ques t ion . A11 in f avor signi y

' by saying aye. Contrary minded. Motion prevails. Senator

Donnewald. .

SENATOR DONNEWALD:

Mr. President, I've been here, and my colleagues on

' this sfde of the aisl.e and on that side of the aisle'

' have been here since 8 ofcloek. The Republican party had;

. a c'aucus at 8:309 it esded at 10:30.. Man# of us are tired;l '

. . many of us are hungry. I do npwy Mr. President, move that

we adlourn until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.

PRESIDENT: . ' .

' ' That motton is in order. There has been tatervening

busfness. There was a motion for the previous question and

the...for what purpose does Senator Earris arise?

' SENATOR HARRIS: . .

Well Mr. President, I just point out that the rationale

that you used in connection vlth your response to Senatpr

Knuppel's motion was Ehat there had not been.intervenina '

busfqesa because ve vere stfll on the amepdment. And I sug-

. gest to you, Mr. President, that you recognized Senator '

' Donnecald for Puttfng the motfon of the previous question. .

' . .

which carrfed. Nov thb motion befor'e us is.the adoption ' ':

'

' '' ' ' '

of amendment number l to House Bfll 3636. At the timeii .

Senator Partee offered that amendment T said to this bodyy '

and I fnvfte your recollecefon, and I made ehe moefon to

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! ' . .l . ' .! .

4 . #

table but tkat 1. would vitkdraw tt to permit every Senator

thp rigkt t'o' discussfon. Now Xr. Presfdenty I recognize

that the xotfon to adjourn ts tn order at any time exzept I

that your rultng on senator Knuppel's motion should be applied

D newald's motion because we are not in a d'ifvto Senator on

fereat order of busfness than we were in, nor is there aay

additfonal actfvity that would meet a different opportunity

for conclusfon tEan when you ruled on Senator Knuppel's

motion. '

- PRESIDENT:i

The Chair would rule there has been intervening business.

' Thts is the requirement of the rules and the motion to:

. adlourn fs in order. For what purpose does Senator Groen

. arfse?

. SENATOR GROEN: ' .t ,

Mr. Presidemt, on a matter of .parliamentary inquiry. '

' It has alkéys been the ruling for 20 years in. this body that'

intervening business means ffnal dispopftion of some matter

whethqr it be...anyth.ingy ft doesnft .make any dffference ,

' vhat ft is, but a 15 minute speech by somebody never, never,ë

in the 20 years that I have been here ever constituted'

intervèning buqiness by the chatr and that includes the rulings

of the President, President of the Senate. .

You, you are correct that a speech is not lntervening

' businessi.however, a motion that is acted upon at any time

' is interventng busiaess whatever the nature of Lhe motion. '

' Ther'e'has been intervenina busbness. The Secretary will

. calt the roll' on the motton to. adjourn. For uhat purpose does '

Senator Mitchler arLse71 . . .f SENATOR MTTCHLER:

Point of personal privtlege. Many of the members and

' many of the people in the gallery might think that this

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fs an oh1 ect of futtlttr? but I s'ort of got in a heated. . )desate, took a valk across the rotunda aad Ied iike tb report' . >.

back that thcy are Progressing MeTy rapidly On a resolution that i

they are now argufng about ending the war in Ireland, so Iï

'

' thfnk that %ay be welre down to so=e good business.

PRKSIDEXT: .

l ' ' . Por what purpose does Senator Knuepfer artse?

SENATOR KNDEPFER:l '! on a point of parliamentary tnqutry. It seems to me! '.

that the decfsion was already made to call for the vote and

' that Senator, when you asked Senator Partee to close the

debate, there was no necessity szhatsoever and the.v.act'uallyt -i senator oonnewald's motion was totally out of order. That

1 dl ecsston had already been made by this body. That motionwas unnecessary.

PRESIDEST:J . .

' i ' ' ' l the' ino.t tdn. was in o' rde r . .1'he'. Tué t k on' w:s â,d op t e.d ' . ' ?We l.

. ''

l by the'Eouse. The motion to adjourn is ia order. The'

.secretary will call the roll.J .' SECRXTARY) '$

Baltzs Berning, Bidwill Bruce, Carpentier, Carroll,

Cherry...

PRESIDENT: ' '

Senator Cherry.

SENATOR CHERRY: ' ' ' . ' '. *

A Senator Dopnewald stated 'we 'star' t'ed working. here atS , .

8:30 this morning. That means we had to get up at 7:30

' this mornfng in order to be here by 8:30. Last night, Mr.

. . ' Fresidehty and yestel-day. afternoon there was Go adjournment .'' '

' for lunchr there Tzas no adlournment for dinner because we .' vent rfght into Eeecutiye Co=miLtee meeting. Now it wpuld .

. . . ' .seem .to me.that.we ar.e nv:pat humén beings and need obr rest

. . . . y , . , .' ' . . . . ' . . . - 9 7 - .

. . ..... ...: .. . . .... . .

*

and need our food; and xhile we serve the people in Illinois' . . lfn'vhatever capacfties we do1 I dontt think that we are

called upon to destroy our phystcal beings because of an issue

that is pendtng tefore this body. And it would seem to me,1

. ' . . . ). t ' . . . ' . : ' . ' ' . . ' . ' ' '' .i .: ..,.': .'.ft-. '. J.: :..

' . ',''. é'.* . ..S Frba t. ö.i' .' Cahew .@'.t: a t çcl. . y'q s't e'r.d @.y y. xt h.a t.. b e in g

. ' . ' . ' ' . .

people and having served in this body for' . . . . . ' . '

. ;. : ! : : .

'%.. ' t ime t b.a t W'e ar e en t it.l./:d' 'td' have s ome d inqter a attdxtrrt . th iak

ieg momentsj that every m#n in thts body is entttled to have al .j of meditatfon quietly over whatever kind of food that we

vaat to partakey and it would seem to mey Mr. President,

that we ought to support this motioa. I've had men from

the other side come over here, and heard the inquiry from

l b0th Senator Partee and nyself and Senator Donnewald, whenl /

' i d urn? Well we didn't see fit to adjournàre we going to a jo

because this vital issue that's pendiag before the members

of the Senate, would seem to me that we ought

1 i k e' r a t i o n à 1 h u m a rf b e i n g s. . I e m p r e p a r e d s t a y h e' r + . f o' r

hovever long 'in order coxe'to a decisfon on this legis-

lation tiat's pending; aad so going to suppo'rt Senator

Donnevald's motion adjourn because think that it fair

and equftable to the people and members of the Senate. I

vote aye.

SECRETARY:

' . . .Chew, Clarke...

PRESIDENT:

s'enator Clarke.

SENATOR CLARKE)

Well Nr.' President and members of thè Senaée. Every-

thfnq .that's bcen said fs erue. bue I thfnk therb'are 'some

more potnts that sïould be safd.' Senaeor Green has made

several speeches hcre suzRestiaz l.fe amead the rules. ror.T

C vould lfkq to t'ell you abouè the r'ules because we had a

- 198-

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filibuster Eere a couple of days ago and the Rules Committeel' . jadjourned in the Riddle...ve adjcurned the sessfon. rècessed,' !

the Rules Comnfttee met and our decisfon was that ff a ffli-

buster is in effect in this body, there's only one person

that can do something about it and that's thezpresidiqgw.. . . . :. : . , . ( $ . . .,

offfcer. And we came out and we went oa with that debate

for about ffve Oore hours. Aad I would suggest that.this$ . .

rulfng that you appear to be so fair in making does not

l Fold aay water in any precedent in this body or in the! '. .

procedures that we are having. And that if we are going to

j adjourn this sessfon in this kind of a fflibuster from thatside, you, Mr. Presidenty are going to share the blame for

$ .i participating as you have actively in arguing in two filf-l .' 'k /t 'busters within hours. I vote no.

SECRETARY:

. . .Collinsy Coulson, Course...

. j? RES.IDENT :,

Senator Coulson.

SEXATOR COULSON :

assume wfthout further nùtice that whatever leader-

ship meeting was called, I've either missed tt or ft has

been held, the hour havfng passed and the place having dis-

appeared. However, I would lfke to address myself most

serfously to what is happening the lègislative branch.

of government. We have spun our wheels noqç here for

sevçral weeks, cautiously, like beauttful ballet dancers

awaiting makiag a decision on anything. Whenever we have

come close to the poinE of truth whenever ve have reached. .'

a poin.t vhere rmembers had to honestly eAercise some inde- L'.' '

pendent judgment and display a little integrity or bear

little tntegrity. vze have shied away from it and gone

to have a few snorts of booze and come' back a'gafn the nelt

ay. againy as we approach the moment of truth. -'1 9 9 - ' '

!. '

. I

, ' I

. '

j

. 1k .

again, tEe tLne wkea a dectsion must be made, we haveibackedj y-avay agafn. $1ts ts the position tke Ger/an Legislature

I .was fn a few days before Eitler; this fs the position the

Italfan Legislature reached; this is the position of thel .

t

Cuban Legislature whea Castro came down out of the hflls.

.The salvatfon of ihe people in thfs State, the salvation ofj ' .h th'fs American self-governing process is the cffectiveness

and the integrtty and the honorableness of you gentlemen

1 in thfs room. Not y'

our 'obedience: but your integrity and

your honesty. This is the people's part of the government

and if you let this be a telephone extension branch of the

Executfve branck of government; you have betrayed the entire

l process, you have betrayed the entire system. We a1l shareiI(

' kn that betrayal. Senator Cherry said very bravely he was

willing to stay'here a11 night and then votes yes for adjourn-

4 . ment. This is precisely what I mean. You have danced with '' ' a' neat 'pirouette' right a' roun'd the potnt of dycision. senàcor '; ..'

.. .l Partee challenges to mention specific cases of where munf- .1 . .

cipal regulation failed to solve ihe problem: and how won-: .

/ '. derful it was that you could close thaé Leland Hotel. I 'l .

tell you that everyday Chicago newspapers.- , everyday three .

children burn in a firey and the Chicago system is failing

and you kaovz it and I know it. The citj system is failfng.' Every driveway permit you buy, you buy from Lhe alderman. -

' Is that.home rule? Is that what youtre devfending? Really! '

Youeve got to face your consciences.' I know you a11 want to '

be Judges. T know yousve given the pledge of obedience. ' '

I#m proud of you that each of yo'u has'earned his' brownie. . . ' ' .. . . p , . . . ' . . '

. p o i rï t s . I ' t h f n k. ' t lteyz r e 'r e c o r d é d Q n. t lt e t. a b' l e s o'f 11 e' a v e n a n d

. I think tapes of thls will be kent to the proper generals,. - ' . ' '. . ' .: .

but please have some regard for the future generations Szho ''

are going to inhabtt thts planet, inhabit this. State.. . . ' ' 1

' - 200- ' . '

L ' . . . . . . *

*

Preserve this system of self-government and let'us proceed

to the busfness of making honorable. independent: courjgeouskdecisioss and say yes or no; and I vote no on a motfon.to1.

adlourn. APPLAUSK. i1

PRESEDEMT:

Prc'ceed with che roll call.

SECRETARY:

. . .bavidson, Donnewald...

PRESIDEgT:

Senator Donnewald.1 .t

'. SENATOR DONNEWALD:

Mr. President and members' of the body. I'm going tol

address myself the question of adjournment. think that

we al1 need a very, very lengthy rest. think we need moreli' than eight Nours sleep this evening because wc will have a'd- ,?'1 p

long day tomorrow. We had a loag day yesterday, consumed more

than 12 hours the floor. Today wefve consumed more than 12

l hours. The day sefore yesterday it was the same way. We 're .. ' . ' ' ' . ' ' ' ''! only human beings herey Mr. President and members of the body

.j . ., We can'stan'd so much b'ut fn order serve the' peo'ple back. . . , ,

home weTve got to have our .rest, build' up our resistance,

have a decent meal. And Mr. Presidenty if we don't do that,wefre foresaking our 'dutfes as a legislative representative

fn this Ceneral Assembly. I think Senator Coulson, in

speech whiçh wasnft addressed to the particular subject matter,he certainly needs a rest this eveninR. aqd.l would vote, Mr.

p/ebident, that we would'adjourn until tomorrow at'lo o'clock.

's ECRETARY ':

. . .Dougherty...

PRESLDEKT:. . . ' . , . w . .

' senator bougherty.-

SENATOR DOUGHERTY:

Before casting my I would kfke join with Senàtor

Cherry invthe stateménls he made about Ehe Length of the

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'

Senator Earrfs will vertfy tke fact that we had a meeting of

the suEcomièttoe of tke Budgetary Coamfssion at 7:30 yester- Y

bay mornfng. Am I rfght Senator? Ve spent somç timé over

there, then ve came back and we went in here yesterday and

you fellows took quite a long tfme fn a caucus. It was .:.. . r. . . . y . J . .. .. ' . ' t . ., . .. , .. k : ..2.... .

three hours, I believe; thus taking a lot of tfme. And

further that after we completed here, we walked off here about

a quarter after nine last night. Am I right Senator? Well,

maybe a lfttle bft e'arlier, a little bit later; but some-

where about that tfme after a meeting of the Executive Com-

mittee and I might tell you fellows on the other side of the

aisle, we dfdn't adjourn, somebody gave us a quorum call.

We were here. We were here. Lack of a quorum was the only

reason we quit. Norz I think T'm a lfttle bit beyond tbe I

age of brownie pointsy and I don't want Lo be a j udge; but

I'm a little bit concerned about the welfare of some of the ''

' 'younger' 1en of this body. .Yot kh.olz we o1d graybe.ards. over

here and some of us don't have too much hairy we don't mfnd '

, . . . :'aking the gripes and the groans that go vzith it. i m

wtlttng to work, but in view of the fact that I look around

here t see some of these younger men, Sezator Bruce with a

.newbora baby aad family, these other young men; somehov I

don't want to take and put anymore wear and tear .on them.

I'm concerned about their health. I'm eonqdrned about their' ;

well-being. I think they belong by thetr own hearthside, and .

those of you who a.re staying in hotels you need your rest.. >

You need somethfng to eat. Ifn hungry too. T'm eating

crackers here. Poliy want a cradker. Itm eating a cracker.

So, ther''efore.. t hone'stly belieye th.at. in the best interest '. ' ' ' . '

g. *

'

. . '

of thfs body and the jeople, so that we donet arrive at any I'fnjudfcious decfsion/ I move that this body...pfm gotnj to '

vote yes'on tEe motion to adjoutn.

. - 202-

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SECRETARY :

y: ' ... 8an...

EXESIDENT:

senator Egan.

earlier made to the corparison betveen this body and the

German Parlfament before Hitler took over and the Italiaa

Farlfament before Mussolinf took over and the Cuban Parliament

Before Castro took over. These references, I assume, were

made with the antfcipation that someone new fs coming to govern

us..-L share your antictpation and.xe look forward to it. '.I

vote yes.

SECRETARY:

.. .Fawe11, Gtlbert...

PRESTDENT:

feaatovr. Gilbert.. .

SENATOR GILBERT:. ' ' .

Well, don't recâll that any- wl believe there wls one

session since 1961 uhen we were at the end.of the session

that we dtdn't spend long hours. Thfs is nothing unusual.

We have even gone until after midaight before the 30th of

J d ttempted then and questioned whether the çlockune an even a

could be held b'àck' Vr not so it' would be a question of a

legfslative day. Thfs isn't anything unusual. Anè how'you

gentlemen can have discussed thfs matter for the hours

that you dfd and be at the stage of a rotl call which would

have taken aseut tco or three minutes and then want to' ad-

journ. E think the press réalizes what responsibility

don't think that they think your action is responsfble.

You know it isn't responsible, and I cercainly hope Lhat they

vill gfye yo'u Lhe credit that ypu deserve for such tactics;

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d

;

and particularly, to call for an 'adlournment when everything

- - - - - u s-.l- - xcep.tv or.a-r.olr call whfch could have been done

Vhîle I have been talking. I vote no.

SECRCTARY:

: ' ' '' '' '

:( . . . pf . l ' : ' r . . .t ,.z. . p' . . . . z . t . l l

. PRESIDENT:

Senator Graham.

SENATOR GRAEAM:

Mr. Presîdent, T'm sure as T stand here, IVm going to

coavince everyone fn this Chamber as I ususally do. I

heard a remark made about us destroying our health and' a1f ' 'thoi'e. 'th.ings às we Ap'p ea t dow'n' here . ' . .1 f zn almos t ' s'u.re ' .

that everyone that comes down here originally is a man of

sound body, an alert drainy and a witlingness be of

servtce. I'm not so sure after he associates himself

this kind ofea zoo that he can go out and be psychoanalyzed

on tqe same aight and sEay out'of the nut housè..' I''m 'sure '

of one thing as we approach o'ur problems here tonight,

that we must bc reminded' qf the man and the wife who alyays

see eye to eye. The reasoa they see eye to eye i: bEcause

theyere the same hefght. Xow I tkink what ve have to do bere

is to find out who tke taltest and who the shortest

and 1e& 2he short ones arow a'little and the tall ones

stay where they'are so that we caa s:e eye to eye aad assume

.our responsfbflities and gei on Uith this busin'ess and cut

out this dama monkey busfness and ff we would have, we'

# . jwouldn t have been back this fall because there wouldn t

ikave b e en any b J-l ls on t he c alendar . We ' d go t tea r id o f . them. j '' ia 'June .. Mo t e no .-

. SECRETARY:

. ..Groea, Hall, Harrfs...

PRESIDENT:

s e n a t o f 11 a r r i's .

-. 2 o 4 -

<

.'

ji1

I

SENATOR HARRTS:

Mr. Presfdent. We've got vork to do. Wefve got work

1 .to do. Thfs fs foportant. There fs other i=portant work

before us. r vote no.* . e , . . . . . .

.... .. ' . : v . . .. .

' . . : .. ; <s'1v go aa yr ;z. jt zp $,. .2 . . . . . u . . ( . . :. .. ' '. ' ..

'œ .....'. '.r ;=...... ; xj ' fv' .: , :4. '.zu.N>. ,.y.wa, z. <7k ?:û.... . : . .;. y'.;,y..,.'. . . . .....'.z . . . .. . .. ; t p . ; . .. . . . T XJ . ' :

. . . .Eors1ey...

PRESIDENT:

senator Forsley.

SENATOR HORSLEY:

I have stood here and I've listened to a11 of thesi

crocodtle tears about the time involved. Gentlemeny you

' .xre bhe onei who. aYe wasting' our.time. You çe tbe ones who

are keeping us here by your filibuster, and let's' don't call

it aaything else than tkat because it is a filibuster;

but the point fs that everything I have heard tonight has

not been dfrected to House Bï11 3636 nor the amendment. . y . . . ' . . j. . .thereto. I ve heard Senato/.partèe falk abou the .telaùd .

Hotel. Ihat fs not even fnv6lved tn thfs bill nor the. . g . . . .

ndment. Webr'e talking about regulating certain pr/fessionsame

Nere. I donft know <hy he has turned into such an fndividual

as he's =akfng these talks. Jeckyl and Heidi if you please

from on'e day to the next. Uhy he is doing that, dontt know.

The cfty still has the power. to close dawn an unsafe build-

ing. That has absolutely nothing to do with the power to

regulate beauty'operators, if you please; dental surgery,

physfcians and the other people that ue're' talking about under

this bfll. Now, wefre gettfng the biggest snow 1ob we#ve

evar had in the state of Illinofs. Now: I'm prepared to stay

' . . . he-re a lt ni R't'tt .. a'l l 7 av t.o mo r r o sz , . ,'i' 11 d a y . S u n d ay ; .' 12 d o rt 1 t

care how lonq it takes. You ao ahead uith yopr filibuster.

r'm prepared Lo stal' here aad pofnt out to the people what

' tr fng to' do to'themq' . Your ameadment has nothing to.you re y

. ' ... .

Q

j 'j 'l . . - .

do with the Letand Eotel and what. happened there, and thts. t u1h il

.t has no tkin.g to do witlk i.t . Al1 w'e re s aying is the' j IState should ticense architects, dentists, physicianà, beauty

culturistsp physfeal therapists and a11 the other people

.. . . . . . .. .. rather ..th.an. .thze. ..c.t. tiak': ...andz. ,txhat. .ohonv talk about ...t:q. . . ...,.k. . ..... .- .....' ' .'' ' .' ' * ' ' . '' : . '. .'@'. * . J z'' ', e ; L . ' e ' ' *. **' ' ' *. . . ' ' ' . ' ' * * < .. '? ' ' ' 1 .. . : eg ' ' ' . ' t ' ' ' : ' ' '). . . . . > & ' ' . . . y . . . . . ' .( 1: ' ' . :, . . ''' . ' J .. ; . . .. .'.. ..: t x 7 ) ' r . , .. . . . . ' : '

'

L . ' . , . ' . . . * : ; t : ' .: .. . . ( . ' . . . ' % . . r

'

'. . . e . . .: : . 1. . .. . . : . . . . v

'

.. . . . . . . . C . :

Letand Uotel is just that and nothing but that.' ' . . P RE.S VDEN'C : . . ' . ' ' . . . : ' . '': . .

Just a moment. FoY What #urPOSe does Senator Rock

arise? '

SENATOR ROCK:

Point of order: Mr. President. Tbe Senator from

. ' ,. ' saagamoh was very solicitous aboat speaking to the point

' just a few miautes ago. ue is nowhere near the point on a

motioa to adjourn.

PRESIDENT:

The Senator will confine himself. Seaator Horsley may

. . ï

SENATOR HORSLEY: ' .

' Mr. President, I'm saying th:t all of fhis. doubte talk

' that we've been getting has noching to do with the point of . E

this bill or the potat of the amendment and if these people

want to adjourn and say to the people of Ittinois, ''Wefre

not going to protec't you/' thea the burden is on thiir shoulders.

f o n e am 'nk; t 'w f 1:1 i:k t o g i. v e up my r e s p o n s ib i lt t y . T.I o r . g .

want to say to my pçvyle, ''I'm here to protect the architects,

the beauty culturists, the dentfstsy the physicians, the 7

real esèate'people, everybody else.'' They doatt wapt the. I,

' .

' cities to' regulate them ahd thatts all tn the world weêre '

' . . t a lktng 'ab ou t ;' - z ' wirnt t o vo'i:e . ..p , l e t ' s s t ay here aad ge.t '

o n w i t lt o u r b u s in e s s . 1 vo't e n o . '

SECRETARY :

. . . .Hynes, Johns... . . . . . .

. ' . . '

. ' 6 .. . . ' . - ? 0 - .. . . , .

PRESIDENTJ

Senator Hynes.

SENATOR RYNES;

QMr. Presfdent and members of the Senate. First I would

lfke to thank Senator Douaherty for his consideration. but. ' '*' ''

'

' 1. ':.. .

'..S. eql t o r. : f t 1 s . r ea 11y no t. .. nq ç ç s s #ry. b. e ç gu s.p . .1 ap . pxpp @ r e d. , t o . . ... '. .. j. ' : . . . : : . ; . . . . : . . ... . 'z , .: . & . . . .e . . . - . . .) .. .. ' . ' :... :.' , à x . : . . . : . : %' <' ' J . ' . # ' ' '. . ' : . . . . t. .: . â : ! t ':.*' ' -'. ;. . . . . .; , .. ; '.L , . . : t . . . . . . ? .. . : . . . *. . r . '. .% ;t r . ' ' . ' >stay here a11 nfght and wdrk and Ie= one who befieves in I

getting.ft done and then getting on. to other matters. In

thfs case, hovever, I think there is a very fmportant reason

to justify adlournfng at thi's moment, because I think many

of us are about to vote for a series of bills which vouldi

Constitute a Very Serious Oistake. Jpt

'

PRESTDENT: .

Just a moment. Letes have some ordery please. Proeeed:

1Senator.

SENATOR RYNES:

And'l tkiak that the hours between now, when we adlourn,

aqd tomo.rrow. mozwin: w.hen wé rèturn to conyider 'these bills,

it vould be very hetpful if we a1l had a chance 'to carefully

eonsider some of these questions; so I rould suggest, gentle-

men, that this evening when you go home that you ask yourselyesy

NAre you really înterested in fnvalidatinr build codes in many !

areas? Are you interested in fnvalidating zoning laws? Are

you interested in interfering with well thought out, careful'ly

planned consumer protection legfslation? Are you inteiested

in interfering with. local. gun control laws? Are you interesté'd

in fnterfering with drug control legislation? A.re you inter-

ested fn fnterferfng with panfc peddlidg' and fair housing. . v?r'

PRESIEENT:

For what.purpoàe does .senatp'r Berning 'arfsd? .

SENATOR BERVING;

' Mr. President, I beg to differ wfth the speaker chat . '

- zoy-

E . a

' 1- '

. jthis has anything to do with the adjournment motion.t.

.7 <PRES IDENT :t

jThe point fs well taken. TEe Senator will confine him-

1 self to the adjournmeat resolution. .- . . ' . . '. .. . . . % 1 C . Y ; ' ; . ; ' ; t . . ' . '. ... : v . j . . . . : J . à ' .. 2 . A; â -),. . : .x. i- z . r j . w . . . : . j.st ' l #J, * . (. ') . ..). '' . '' '. . . ' . . . ' ' ' . .* ? .J: 4 .J : . ..u .w. r ' ' : ' ; h ' . .' ; . . J J: .** ..;; e . ;S ENATOR EYNES : , . . . . .. . . . ., : . . . .... . . ..

'

Mr. President, I thfnk it is very relevant to the adjourn-

. ment resolution. t am simply suggesting that this'is why we

should adlourn. That these pofnts ought to be carefull'y! .

1' considered, aad I could go on down the list of these items.

r thfnk we need addftfonal tfme. .1 think we should stop to

think if we havenlt made a mistake. Tt's very difficult. . . z œ . . . .. . . k .

T when you have advaneed a positton, to withdraw from it; And$'y I do think we need these addftioaal hours so that we =anll /

carefully re-think our posftion. I vote aye.

SECRETARY:

1 . '

.. . .Johns.,. . , . . . . , . , . . .

l pRlszo/uT: .' . . .

.

/ .' Senator Johns. .'

' t SEXATOR JOHNS: '

' Mr. Presidenty lady and gentlemea of the Senate. I

would lfke to explain my vote. You.knosz a lobbyist: a good

one, tells each of us the real good in a bill and vice versa.

.1 liàLen to them and I respekt them; most of 'then, knywa/..Manv r#presentinn a11 the professions have aoproached me .

. . .6 ' . ' '. ' ' ' ' ' ' '

. stating of the concern of their employers about duplicate

. licensing. This amendment clariff/s that easily. 'The State

will handle that ttem now and the fears of a11 the professionals

#re all'éyeds.'' Now I chargq a11 the lob.byists, and ther:'s 6any , .

. . . .of them here tonight.... ' . . . . . .'

. ' .PRESEDENT:

. . p . f '' . , Just a moment. Let.s. Genttemen let s maintain ùome .. > .

' ' . . . o r d e r. . I h o p e ïq e ' r e. n o t, g o f n g t o b e h e r e. t ().: . m u è h' ' f (J n a e r y . ' .

. ' . ' : . :..

' - 2 () j; - .' . . . . .

1 t htle wat're here let''s maiataia sowe order.but et s, w ,

. - SENATOR JOENS: j<I

Now Mr. Fresfdentj as r vas saying...

PRESTDENT: !

-. r ' z' . . .,.: .- . . ...y.. '.. . : :; . ....7 ' xq .. i. i. ru' .:r, > or, àr ...j j) e s . s e n a t o r ' X la x'keT: 'à' zr'qf i' è T' ' ' -' : ' '*' -ï': '..k.R.-; ' . 'kJ' :'' z' ''. : ..' J ' .: .i . ..z : z . . . ..'t c .: . . . ?v ,:, . ..? ( t: q. . 'P . - . . ,, - . . . . s . .. 1 , . . . a . . . . .. .. '. , .: . . j' . : z . .a:... ... .. : .. . -.?. . .' . r, . . .

. SENATOR CLARKK:' In that connectioay Mr. President, I would like to have

the ftoor cleared of a11 lobbyists and other unauthorized

' personnel. We've had them on the floor a11 afternoon. !i

PRESIDENT:

Anyone not authorized to be on the floor should leavel' . . : . . . . ' .

. . ' * ' ' ' * ' : ' '.

.'. the.floor. Tse serseant-at-Arms wsli e'pforce Ehewuîe's. '

Senator Johns.

SENATOR JOHNS: l. I

Thank you Mr. President. Again lady and gentlemen of l

the Senate, now T charge a11 lobbyists in the galleries and. : ' ' ' ' . . . . . '

. . . j ' ..ào fobthy' all with n my listening voice: then I respectfully' ' ask that the press to carry the facts back to the people. I i

will vote fa favor of this amendmept, and if it fxils, I

will vote agafnst the bfll otherwfse. For your plea that

lfcensfng and tEe charges would get out of hand wfll and

cannot, under state administration; but to take away the

right to regulate the safotyy the health and welfare of the '

people under ''homes rulestt that has been a normal and natural

' p o 1i c' y' o f t he a dm :1 p'i's i: r a t i o n' o f c f. t i e s ' . an d . m un i c i p.a li t i e s ' ' f.o r '

years.. Yes, I was one af those that voted with the men across

the aisle to brfng ft'out of postponed eonsideration and '

bring it ùp to second because I thought your purposes were I

. '' - sfncere, 'tNat your f-nterests vere agafnst .licensfngy'and I .'.'.

' ' '.

thought that tlat was what you wanted. Well. I await your

decisfon and tf you vote dgainst this amendments 1:11 realtze '

. hosf ybur rdal moefves wére and rzhat they rzere, and therefore

, . . - 2cg- . .

. !

I vote aye. ' ' .

PRF-s IIDEX'.r : . I

#or vhat purpose does Senator Eorsley arise?- * '2 . - -. :

SENATOR RORSLKY: !i

Ieve had my stop vatch going here. The gentleman has

- t alked t h.r e q and o ne-'ha lf . pinp t ç @ .. . .

. ,. ... . . . # . . '( . : . . . ., %.. ' .1 . j ' . . i y$ . ' ' . . . . , . . ' J -. '

. ..# ? t ' . , ' : . . J .. . . r l . , . ,; .' ' . . . . : ' . . .' : .. r. .. ' : ) , .J ; . . . .' .PRESIDENT:

Senator Rorsley is noL correct in that khenever there is

an interruption of a speaker on...whether it's on roll call or

any other timey thatb's take: away. In othe'r words. when we

called for order, when Senator Clarke spoke, that tfme is not *' I

counted for the speaker. Contfnue the roll call. l/

. . ' S E C R E-T A RY : . ' * . e ' .

* . '. . . : . . . .

. . .Knuepfery Knuppel... ' .

PRESEDENT:

Senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KXUPPEL:

' ' .

' . Mr .. Cha irman'. w i 11 y o u . r es t o'r e o r de tl f o r me ? . '. ' .. . .

PRESCDEXT ; '

Senator Knuppel is...Letls main...senator Knuppel. . .

SENATOR KNPPPEL: . ' .

Well, I regret that I heard a very poor imitation of a

cow call over there on the other side. I would like sometime

to demqnstrate for these people just exactly how y'ou call cows

because I do a Hery good'loby but to get to the subject at hand,. 1. .

Whfch fs my health, and that's ihe r-eaàon I'm going to have to

vote the way I do. I was born August 5, 1923, a 12 and 3/4

pound sibltng, the second sibling in the famtly; and because ' '

' of a storm the nfght before the doctor was unable to get there

: . . %

.' . . t o h.e l p mv m o t h e r s o s h.e d e 1 iv e r e d me' a lo n e . S li e v a s b r f gh' t '. . . . ' '

e . '

.enough that she was able to accomplish this anl' a couple of '' hours later the doctoè came and performed the rest of the cere- .

. monies. I was .an pnusually healthy, s'trong lfttle youngster . .

t: G .

* .

. . . ' . ..

. iand mv Dother told me I awoke at 6 o'clock bright and early. * ithe next mornfng and that :leve gottea up before that time every

=orning sfnce. And I ffnd myself at the office by '6 o'clock

every mornfng including Sunda'y, Christmas and New Years. When1 .

. ïl . s. . . . : . ;::; ..:. . . . .,. I :w:s...;.6., y e azrs p l d .py p ar.e.p tl s .. t. h. qugla t ..t ,.wi gh y.. b. p .a.b 1.e. . .); o . . a: qi. p;$.- . . z ;. . ...... . '. . , . . : ... , ' , j. .: . . ! . .t ; f .. . ' . ... , . .7 . . .

. . . ., . ' .

' . . z ' . .. . . 7 . . ..' ' . . * '. .'e . . . 6 ' 'j . 1 : ? . . .. .. ' '. , : s ; : . . ' . . ' : r ( s ' C.' . . '' '' . . ' '. ',:. 'rr' : .. ' .v' . 7 $. ' q' ' ' i . , '

' ' late a little knovledge so they started me off towards the

, .' . one room country school. I spent some 5 years in country . '

.k .l' school without mfssing a single day or being late, and the$

.1) teachers thought I showed some promise academfcally but not''!j, .. .

. very much as far as my conduct was concerned. *

FRESIDENT:'

For what purpose Sen'ator Horsley arise? 'j SENATOR HORSLEY:

. i

1 l uould the geatleman ysezd to a questson? I understand

you to say...

PRESIDENT:J .

. ' . . ' . . ' . .

' ' ' . . .. : . . . . . J us t a Jno.men t . I f qy o u.. h aVe a p o in.t o f o r d @ r y q u pay ' . . . .1 .) ' speak, or parliamentary inquiry.

! .. SENATOR HORSLEY: '

; Well, T want to inquire ff he spent that 5 #ears' in one1 gradeo

' PRESEDEX' T:

' Senator Knuppel may proceed.'

SENATOR KNUPPEL: . . '

. . Well, there Qere many threéts that they woulb burn t:e. ' school house down to jet me put and fortungtely they' didnft

jz 'ave to but they closed it. It was a one roon country school;. they ffnally got me out that way..

' '

. . ' ' . ' P R E S I D E N T : '' ' ' ' ' l ' ' ' ' ' ''. . . . . . ' % . . . . . . '. . .- ' ; .. ' . . ' 2. ' For what purpose Senator Walker arise?

, S ENATOR WALKER ; . .' . . . ' .

. . . ' ' . '

.Rov much time docs the Senâior have leftt. - 211- 1 .' '

. . .. . . : . . ' . . ' : '

I . *

' !

. l

FRESCDENT: '

, - Ee has a minute and 22 seconds left. .!1

SENATOR WALKER:

It seems lfke he had been talking much longer than that,. 1 .

l . . . : . . .. . . . -: . ..' '' '. ' . . ) ; ..Vr'.. . P k e s i d en t . t h a t ' :.i s ' p'ity: ' : T:'. irf q ui r e d . ,

.'. . ;' .) '' . . . . .:' '..'. . , . ' ..' '

'' v

PRESIDENT: .

'. ' Senator Knuppel may proceed.. . .

SENATOR KNUPPEL:l .

j '. Unfortunately after the 5th gradey after I had completedt '.' cthose 5 years of perfect attendance

, I contracted scarlet

fever. Although I wasn't very sick, the directors insisted' ' ' ' that my parents qyarantipe me aû'd keem me axay frùm' sciool . '

1i because they were afraid I would infect the other children.l1 /' Idfinally accomplfshed the 8th grade aad eatered high school

and somehow they got me out of there and then the Narine Corps

. decided thçy wanted me. So ah...I wanted to be a Marine pilot,l .' ' '. d t kezi t t o' .d t L o u i s t o .. t.a k e t h e p'lfy' s i c a 1 è x 'ami h a t i o'n ' ari d ' . ' '. . an .j ' .

/ ' discovered.l was color blind. 'Nowy this is the start of theJ: ,

breakdown of mv physical health.. '

. .( . . '

1, PRESIDENT:' .

1hé Senator may continue. '

SENATOR KNUPPEL::

' Welly I cheated a little bit, you seey and I learned the

plates; aad by learning the plates and memorizing these 12 or '

. 13 platesz I went to Chic.ago and they admitted me to the Marine

Corps as qn enlf.sted gyrene. I serve.d overseas and there I

had dingue fever. And... '

' PRESIDENT: ' '. ' ' ' '

. . . . .L X! h e. . S e n a' t.o r. 1: a s 2.0 s e G o n d s .. . . T i e S e ri a t d r . h a s 2 0 s e c o n d a

' left. He would have been finished a miaute and a half aRo tfl'' q'

he had not been fnterrupted. The Senator may contfnue. ' '

SENATOR KNUPPEL: . .

. . - 212- ' ' .

: . ' . . @ ,

j . . . *'e

' . ! I

That is spelled d-t-n-g-u-e, xnd it's something that's. ! :

1. Iindfgenous to the Marfanna Islands. Very sick for about 75 .d

ays with tremendous migraine headaches...

FRESIDENT:

' 'fhe .$' n at x.. wl- 11 . gn'c lu'ge . hts' 'lfeparksa ' .;. . ' '.:' .' ' ''.. ' ' .' ..'.' '''.' ..1 . -: . '.-:' '. .'' . '>'- . !!' . (!!1 , - -- . . 'qh . . . ; . .. . . z ! z , .. . .. . . .. . z:L. ... . ;. . - . . ,. ....; . . , . .. . : . .

'x a , ,..:. .. . .. (F C .t . .;

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

j' Well, anyway my health ha's deteriorated continuouslylj since that time and, because of that I am hungry tonight andl: ''1 I think we have Put in a full day. I would like to adjourn.j '.

I vote aye. *

PRESIDENT:l. . . ' . .

. .. F o r 'w h a t p u r p o s e j eifa t 'o r G r o e n àr i's e 7 . .1 ' ' ''(l SENATOR GROEN:I

t ' / .1 ? Mr. President, another parliamentary inquiry. I call

the Chair's attention to Rule 47. It clearly, clearly says

motions to adjourn or to lay on the table shall be decfdedj .. ' . . . . .. . ' . . ' . . ' . ' '

. ' ' . '

''2 ' vfthout debate. Nowa Rr. Rrésident..:if' you have any reépect' 'l -l - ' . '' for this body: aad I sincerely believe you do: I would thinkr ' '' ' '' .

' '

that you would apfly the rule.th'at explaining a vote on debate!; . .. of this issue, when the explanation actually constitutes'a

debate and is not relative to an adjournment. Certainlyy

there ts no justffication for the Chatr allowing this to con-

tinue. And I would a:k the Chair 'to invoke Rule 47 of our

' rules aad state and rule that there is no debate on a motion

. to adjourn and that there is no expqanation of a vote on a . X'

motion to adlourn. Tt only makes sense.

' PRESIDENT : ' '

Senator Groen fs partially correct in that a motion to

' .. adJ o u rn ts no f d'eb a t ahf e . on a 11 n ond eb at ab le mo t to n s memb'er s ' ' . . 1have always had.the' righE to explain their vote. That has I. . .

. ' ' . : q . . . . ' . .

! alcays been'the case. Continue the roll call. . p.' '

' ' S ECRETARY : . . . ' ' ' ''. .

-2 13- . . '

.. !u ' . . . ' '.

e

. . . . . e

. . .Kosinskt, Kusibabz Lathero.w, Laughlin: Lyons, McBroomy

Mccarthy... ' '

PRESIDENT: 'I

Senator Mccarthy.i .' S ENAT 0 R Mc CART I'W : x' : ; . . , . . . . . . , .. ...,;..,!:; . .

: .,j . .2 ' . .. . : ' . . ' . . ' )L . ' . . . . .'

Yes, Nr. President and members of téis body. I should

like to explain mv vote on the motion to adjourn. Mr. Presi- .

denty the motion to adjourn is a desirable one because the1l

k function of the Fall'session has been completed. It wasï .:

.' completed some ten days ago. The Constitution structured and A

' invited a Fall Session to consider three items of business.

. L . . . ' Number 1, Mr. President, to consider thbse maLters .which were

1 e t o e d b y t h e G o v e r n o r b e t w e e n t 14 e t i me w e le f t J u ly 1 a n d t h ei V(

.î l titutional ttme sn which hts excellency had to act onc asl r1'

those matters. That didn't expire until October 1st. As 1

redall, his last veto was sent to the chamber on October 4th.1 .I . .k ; . . . ' 'T h e t im e h a s . r un o u.t , '. Mr.. P r e s i d.e n't , an d. . we h q.v e c o li' s i d e r e d ' . ' . '

j ' . a11 of the matters where h1s excellency has either vetoed abill outright or where there have been line item reductions .

; which requfred a vote of tbe chambers approval or rejection.

l And we also got an interesting initiation into a new constitu-

. ' y ' .tioaal concept of the Governor s amendatdty veto powers whichy

I think, .have been an erosion of the legislative process; and'

ff there is anything for which the Conséitution of 1970 is .

susceptible of èrtttcism, it is t*e exteaded powey graated

to the Covernor to intrude himielf into the the legislative .. '' ' . '

matters. Those matters having been taken care of a11 other. ' .

items of legislation are not necessarily before us'wfth a

' . . necesqity to act upon thim. Noq, we do..kav'e rules Mr. ' .

' '.... . . . z ' . .' '

President/ ané items .of legislatfon similar to the bills

that have been under discussion were offered it1 this bqdy. .

They were turned down and... . . ' '

. . ' . '

.- 2 1 4 - . . . ' ' .

FRESIDING OFFICER; (Senator Egan/1 i i '- .. .- For what p urp o s e do es Senato r ltors ey ar s e .

SENATOR HORSLEY: '

Efs tfme fs up.; . . '. . ' ' r .. .

' . . 't; , s . .,

' u.. . P .R E S I B. IN (; 0 F 71. C E R : . . ' . (S R n a # o r E g a n ) ' ' ' . . . 'œ

'

. . . : ' .t ' ' . ' i''

I am informed by the parliamentarian that the speaker

1. ' has another 5 seconds. . .

SENATOR MCCARTRY:k! .' 5 seconds. Ueêre here to protect the people or 1et thel .j '

'

special fnterest prevail and I am here to protect the people -

l defenstvely and move-- vote aye. '

-' . ' - SECRETARY : ' ' ' . ' . ' .' . ' . ' '.j 'i . . .Merritty Mitchler, Mohr, Neistein...i

jl /! PRESIDING OFFICER: (Senator Egan)

Senator Mohr.

SENATOR MOHR:? . .

J . . . : .I . . . . . . Y es ..Mr . P'r e;s id en t I ' wo u l d l ike Ehe r'e co r d t o s how '.tft a t! ' 'I ' ' > ; . .

l ' h my seatmate, seaator Soper, reported into the hospital1 a ...

and was sent home. He was told to be 'put in the hospital here,J .' ' but he preferred to go back home to Cicero and I can't hardly

blame hfm for wanting to get out of Springfield. But he was

given some medication and a couple of fellows are driving him

. home now. But this just gives you some idea of what can happen

to people érbund here.. We have seen it in this Houpe and the '

. ' other House has seen it on many occasions and I would just like

to urne each member of this bodv to use a little zood iudament

from time to time and, as Senator Coulson sgid vote 'yes or no. ..

' . .: ' . . .

'' N.owy I know this dingue fever; I had sope experience in the

' . fslands, toov. And'oace you.gef that'dipgue'fever, why God '.

' help you, you never gqt rid of it. But I wguld llke to jusf' ask each of us to say 'yes or no. If they ever take these tapes

. back into some of the' dist.ricts why I 'think that will take

. . ' ' - )15- . ' .

. ' . J . ' *

e

. 1e of some of our colleagues for' the neAt term. But' I would

ear. . . ï

'

smind you) too: that have a bill tkat, I think, Probablyrt J

u1d be one of the few bills that would be passed out hereco

'ith unanimous consent, ever have the opportunity tou

c a 11 i t . . V0 t e no .

PRESIDING OFFICER: Csenator Egaa)

senator Mohr, the Journal uill reflect the fact ehat

senator Soper has been excused for illness.

SECRETARY:

. . .Neistein... <

PRESIDING OFFICER: (Senator Egan)

Smnator Neistàin. '

SENATOR NEISTEIN:

Mr. President and members of the Senate. I am sorry to

learn that my very close and dear friend Senator Soper is

ill. Senator Groen, a .few days ago: made some commenïs on

thi's floory and co'mplimentèd hi= that' he was a staréplan

and that he had b0th feet on the ground and repeat that

L o d à y . 'W h e n t h i s s e s s i o n s t a r t e d , a l 1 w e Ve r e t o d o w e r e

go over some of the dovernor's vetoe.s and amendatory messages,

but since that period 5 weeks ago we have had everything under

the sua for discussioa. Now I am a firm believer, as Senator

Groen isy I thiak we shauld have had a meeting of the Rules.

' .

Committee. think that three-fourths of this Calendar should

have beea struck. I t'hink the gentlemen on b0th si.des of the

atsle know my position. mp position had prevailed Fe

w o u ld 1: av e b e en 1A ome a h' e e k o.r 2 w e ek s a g o . t h i n k &z e s h o u 1 d

have culled out the bifls. The.tmportant matters that are

. .j . . . .g. z use uassgsfacing ugnto ay are senator uarrts .s bills 3636, n .

of bills that are related to it, implied consent, the ethics

')bflls) the welfare, and maybe Y6e others; and hqd we

pursued sen.ator croen's tdeé., we would have had thes'e 8 9

- 216-

measures to contend with, we would. have measured up to the'

d been home by this time.prpblems an

statesoen. I thtnk we shouldn't 1et teopers flare. l don't

I think we a11 should be

vant to say I was right, but you know Dy position. I wanted

... , ' '%. . . . . ,. e .to . .a d 1 .p u.r ri. . papy 's mal').y i .imq s. an d I . k A:l- d . 4.,11 .. t h :i. : . t'a rbta.g q.... ?..:# z.. ; . 1'. .. .2, . .. .:... :' .; ..

somebody called it garbage. I agree with them. We should

' ', have killed .a1l those birlq on the calendar and just addressed .

ourselves to these 5 or 6 or 7 bills that I mentioned. Kow,

1 don't know ff I am'out of order, Mr. Presfdent, and I have I!j 'no authority from the President Pro Tem, but I don t know if <

I can take it upon .myself to call a Democratic caucus right

nOW .

PRESTDENT:

Not in the middle of a roll call.

SENATOR NEISTEIN :

I vote aye on the motion adjourn, but I would like to

hàve'. a c.a u c us. r i gh t n öw..' j

FRESIDENT:

The potion to adlourn is before the body and weere in the

mfddle of a roll call and no motion is in order at thié time. j1

SECRETARY: i

.. .Newhouse, Nihi1l...

PRESIDENT:. !

Senator Nihill.

. SENATOR NIHILL:

Ah...Mr. President and Senators. The conduct of this

Senate here tonight is ridiculous. The great Senator Crom

Sangamon County here. .1 don't know if he would like to move

his sea: up in the balcoay or keep it down here. I don'f' .

know who he is talking to, to the Senate or the people in the

balcony. Now, this Xs a very essential thing here. We are

( 'conducting a...no a filibuster at a11 under no circupstances?. . #

- 217-

But ve are trying tc explafn the right of the people of the

State of Illfnois. When you come down here, you raise your

hand to be sworn. just a crfme. I know the people

of my distrfct ever seen me conduct Dyself like they did...

, ;.. . . . . ' . . , , . z . . . u . . . . . ' . 1 é. k . $ y u y y . . a y. a

wouldnft be dowa here a to

see a man like him running around like a chicken with his

head off and I vote no. Yes.

SECRETARY:

0'Brien...

FRESIDENT:

Let's...Let's...If the Chair may interject herey

a1l of us try and refrain from personal comments about our

colleagues. Contfnue the roll call.

SECRETARY :

. - ozingay Palmer, Partee...

PRESIDENT:'

senator Palmer.

SENATOR PALMER:

Mr. President, point of inquiry. May I ask what motton

fs before the Rouse. I have been kind of sleepy here, being

here a11 day.

PRESIDENT:. :.The motioa ts adjourn until 10 o'clock tùmorrow

morning.

S ENATOR PALMER :

Well, can.'t see why anybody would object to that.

vote aye.

S E C It E T A R k' :

. . . P a xr t e e . . .

PRESIDEXT:

senator Partee.

n 2 1 8 - .

I

*.

j '

j . ' .

SENATOR PARTEE: . 'i

I kadnft planned to explain my vote, but a couple of

tlhfngs have been said here whick I can't 1et go unans'wered.

0ne fs that there has been some remarks that I consider dfs- !i

- - - - - paragipg abgut th@ Rqles Committqe .and probably very sensitive. r ). l * . '. . . t' ' ' '

to that statement for the reason that since I came to the

. Senate fn 1967, I have always been veryy very upsqt and frus- '

trated and annoyed and piqued by the operation of the Rules

Committee when I firàt came over here. Rules were changed

unceremoniously and rapidly to ftt indtvidual situations. -

Rules Committees were held at the desk of the Pro 1em and the

le from over on this side of the 1decfsion was made before geop

aisle got to the Deeting. And I have always said that I would

certainly not want to be a party to the Rules Committee that E

operated in that fashion. And, as' a cohsequence, I have tried

as best we can to have a Rules Committee tha't operated proper-' ' ' 1 nd above bo' atd' aàd it sha'll for always be that'way. As'a 'y a ,

matter of fact tomorrow morning each person ts going to be

verk...not lust verbally solicited but by letter to make. ' > #' . j

any contributions you have or any suggestions you have about

changes in the rules. The rules should be embracive to cover

. .a11 sftuations. We canlt always do tha't but we can certainly

' 'try. Now, the other thing that has been mentioned that nettles

aqd bothers me is this business of a filibuster. And it said

that I was partici/ating in a fibibust.er. Kell, sometimes we

use words that we don't actually know what they mean in depth.' . , . ' .

And I have a dictionary here that w'as given me by a fozmer'' ' '

. Genatorj Senator Jim Loukas, and I looked up' this word 'fili-'

bustèr' and here is wha't tt spys: ' THe.use of pbstructionist . .

tactlcs such as the making of prolonged spee'ches or tbe intro-

duction of irrelevant material for the purpose of delaying

legtsrat'ive' aotfon. Now, I say to' you, I am not guilty of a

- 219- .

) ' ' . . .j . . . '

. . '

.) . . . . . . . ,- . .

ffltbuster because I have not introduced one single word of

irrelevant matertal. Everything I have said has heen relevant

on the sublect under consideration. lhere is another d'efini-

tion here: An instance of the use of such tactics especially'

in the United States .senate. Now. what they are talkinn about. . s. . L . . . p'lr ' . ' . . . . . î k . . . i . ' ' . . ' ' '' . . '. . ' *0 . : . . . . . . . . .. '. .. ' L'. . . ; .' ' J'a . ' 1 ' . .. . : . ' ' ' * . ' 2. < ' . k ' 1). ' 't . @ . C . 2 ; . . . a . . . . . <' .. . . , . ! . . . . > . . .' ' :ere fs if. I should staad here and start reading from th'e ' ' .

dictionary or startçog reading from the House Bills or from

the Journal something on a sublect which did not relate to

the matter under consideratirn. We've not done that. Wetve

.'. focused, channelized our every remark on matters that related

. to the sublect matter under consideration. Hence we have not. /engaged in aay filibuster. There is a third definition which

obviously does not apply: An adventurer who engages in a

private military action in a foreign country. That obviously

is not What you meant by a filibuster.

PRESIDENT: ' '

' . The senator will conclude his reparks. . . '

SENATOR PARTEE: .

' Tt 5za.s suggested that somebody wants to be a judge. Well,' sir 1et me tell you and I don't say this by braggadocioy I' > y

could have been a judge 10 years ago. So that is not the

reason I am doing this. The reason I am doin'g this is because

' the policR power of the municipalities of this State are at

stake. And t shall employ every ounce of breath in my. body

to prevept it from being taken àéay. Now, our mood is not

good and, in the' interest of our hea1th I would join in this

. . motfon to adjourn. '1 vote aye. .

' liïr ' ' ' ' '. SECRETA : .'J .

' ' . . .Rock... ' ' . . .. -.. . . .

' ' Senator Rock. '

SENATOR ROCK: ' ' .

2 ' .' . . ' . . . 'Mr Preâident - . ' . ''

. - 220- .. k . . '

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. '. , .. '

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' 1PRESIDENT: '

- - . For what purpose does Senator cherry arise?* fSENATOR CHERRY: I

. !

can we get seaator Horsley to be qutet and listen to the comaentsi

. J7 . ' .' jz . . . :' , ' :...: :' b .ollde....by. . the pqrpims. zhàt haye the floor? I h'ar . rtoti'qed rthatmpt evexy .;.. . . ' . , ; :. . '!. '' . .. . . ! . L . . . . . . . ., . . ..'' z ' . - t > ' . t ' , . . : : ' .. 4 . . .. '..'. .. ; : . ' . . . ..' . . , . . . , ' : . .. . ' ... . '' ' . : . ' . , . ..' '. . '. ' ' s '.' ' .' . :: . ' .t .. . : i % . . 2. . ' . '. f . : p ,J. .

individual speakingz.every Senator makes copments. he has cat calls and I

' ' he ts insolent. :)l I'

PRESIDENT: l!l .' Welly a11 Senators will obey the rules and hopefully keep order.; .!

Just...senator Ro ck is recognized. Senator Rock is reco gafzed. u< I!

SENATOR R0 CK:

. '

. . Yes, Mrp.president and mecbers of.the Senate.. In explaintng my:

t vote oa a motion to adjourn I wovld first direct a parliamentary in-l) /t quiry to the chair, so that we keep the parliamentarian avake.

1.Assuming that this motion does not carry: and I were to make a motion

. worded some thing like s having voted on the p revai ling side , I uove toI .l .? ' '. . ' ' .. recoaiidet the vo'te by whtch ' the m'oïion 'fo'r . the . pre'vlous questton ' p.re-

/ - tled; would then motions under rule 46 be in order?' I speak specifi- !val . .

. ' cally of a motion to recommit 'this matter to'committee. It is my' : . j; Judzment that some of the members don't really underst and what this is

. T ''' '''' .. l ' . .

a11 about . '

PRESIBENT:f i

I can t give you a decision right now. We are on the motion to

adloura. You 1ay explain your vote. ' ' ''

' SENATOR ROCK : ' . ' '

Welly Mr. Presidenty the...whether or not I woûld vote to adjourn 1ltas a di re ct re levanee as to f uture parliament ary moves that I 'might ' .

' .' . vish to make. IE seeus to me that we are considering a piece of legis- ,

' 'latioa that is extremely important. We are talking about, on'page 2, ' . .

' '

' of'the bill an Act tn relation to thc definition, registration axd. '. :

. . '

' l tion...regulation Oof real esèate b rokers. Now: the.aldermen ia . .. regu a

my area 1 us t, a'n ucb er of wè'eus agow voted ayé ôn'a'n ordinance fo b an .

. -221- '

) . . . . . ..* J . .

' .

:the posting of For Sale signs and' this is a ve ry relevant thing in my' ' '

jarea, and if the cfty can't do thaty I vant to be aware of it. 1k

PRESIDENT: !

Well the motfon for the previous questionz which we revert to.

l. . whi ch. has been approved, fs a motion that takes precedence over the motion

. : . . ... . .; : . z . . : ! y . b : . eq . .: :. ' . . p . . e . . . . . ' . , & . . .. . : , . . . s. ..t . . ' ' . . .- . ..j .. . 11 . .,'.. . '. . . 4à . : ' ... : . .. . k : x . . ) w . . t . , ... . . . .. ; ; . : z . v 2: . . . .. . : . . ; : . .. i ) : . . . . . . 4 .... '. j . .g: . : ; j ' , . .' . . $' . . ' .' r ... .' '. .. L : . ! ? ' . l . . . . . ' : . S ' . '. ..; . . . ' . ..R . ' . , . . .. '. . . . . . . .Eb récommn t. ' ' '

SENATOR ROCK:

No no questioa about that, b ut if I were to move the reconsideration

of the vote by which that motioa prevailed.

PRESIDEXT:

To move to reconsider the motion fot the previous question?

SENATOR ROCK:

Then we would revert back, I am surey to the question of whether

qr not an amendmeat should be adopted. In whi ch event I would be ableJ

to make a motion to recommit.

PRESIDEHT:1' Well the motion for the pxeviqus que>tfon requires p tvo-thirds:. . . .

; .majority. The motion to reconsfder the previous' question would ulsoI . .

! requtre a two-thirds najority.

SENAIOR R0 CK:

Fine. In that event Mr. President I vote aye.. ' >

SECRETARY:

Romano, Rosander, Saperstekn...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Saperstein.

. SENXTOX SAPERSTEIN:

Here we go. Mr. Presfdent and Gantlemen.. Many of you have known me for

many , IcJ ny yelrs and I thiqk I hiave never asked for a special privilege ,

. special consideration. I have trfed to meet my responsibilities as

man, ih the generic term. Nows at the rfsk of having my 1ib frtends

point thei/ finger at me, IRm going to ask for a special privilege. I've

b ûn up s in ce 3 : 15 Ylïis morltin g . couldn ' t s' leep aad T. ' m t'ired

I'm huagry: Iïm sleepy and I doa't feel that I can continue very long

this eveafng.' It is nearly 9:00 o'clock and I'y going to ask you' -. r.

Gentlemen to please adjourn so we can come b ack tomorrcw and do' a full

day's work. I vote aye.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Savi ckas .

SENATOR SAVICKAS:

Mr. President: Gentlemen of the Senate and Lady of the Senate. 0ne

of the statements b rought out here was that if the cities were allowed to

license, that the people using this power would ab us e it. 1 have a

statement here from a Reverend Ri chard Dadero and a Roy Magnason dated

March 15 of 1971 and it regards the Director of the State Department of

Regtstration and Education, who issued...

PéESIDENT:'

' F ' hat 'purpose' does Seaator Horsley arise?Just a .moment.. . vr w .

SENATOR HORSLEY:

He ' s t alking ab o ut s ome thin g .e ls e ,1 now . ' We f re t alkin g ab o ut

adlourhment and...

FRESIDENT:

The Chair wqs not listening. The Senator wilï confine hirself to

the motion.to adjourn.

SENATOR SAVICKXS:

k 1 his is the reason why I'm voting the way I am on the adjourn-e1 , t' 6 i tion and Educationmeat resolution. Now, the Director of t e Reg stra

Departnent had issued a real estate salesman's license to a woman by tbe

name of Elaine Baumgardner Dfce. The license was issued under her son's

broker's license Robert Jane of the Ryalty 'comp any', U.S.A. at 4124 West

North Avenue.

PRESIDENT: <

Jus t a momeat. What is'yotlr-..senator.Horsley.

-223-

' SENATOR EORSLEY: ' '

Well: if he wants to talk about adjourament, 1et him talk about it;

but this idea he's talking about has nothing to do with adjournment.

PRESIDENT: .

'. Well the Chair is not in a position to be able to determine that.. : . . . .

' IiIf...the Senator may continuez b ut please move in the direction of dis-

ctzssin.g adjourrtment : Senator. '

SENATOR SAVICKAS:

This Elaine Baumga/dner Dice' has been convi cte'd of 25 counts of 1!

T Attorney, and according to Barbara Daviss an Ifraud by the State s/ ',àssistant Statees Attorneyy she was on a five-year probation paying b'ack

< /around $147,000 of escrow money whi ch she stole. This Elaine Baum-

gardner Dice was a broker at... '

PRESIDENT:

Just a moment- -For what purpose does Senator Graham arise?

SENATOR GRàHAM: ' !' . I

. ' ' '' on a point of order' , Mr. Prèsident .'' 'It ' s one of the few times I 've ' .

. ever joined you real thoroughly. I wasnlt listening eitier.

PRESIDENT: '. . . ' j

' I'm not sure what your point of order is, Senator Graham, b ut 1...

. The Senator will confine himself to the adjournment resolution.

SENATCR sAvkcKxs: . . :L. I

' ' Well: Mr. President, and mepbers of the Senate, I b rought thi: I

matter up to sbow why I a'm yoting on the adjournment resolution. It

seems that many of the Senators on the other side are conce rned with the

. quality of the administration of any licensing act Lhat would te issued .. through the City of Chicago or the County of Cook. These same Senators

. . :

'

' '

, ' . ''- who get up on th'e otheé'side of tbe aisle when we have a downstate matter '

' . andbask for the s upporr of thY Senators f/bm Cgok' County saying zhat you . '

' ' jshouldn'c worry about what's happening dmzascate. This is a good bill. .

' S This fs what ve w ant, soCwhy not support vs. In the same tokea, whea we .

need support for the people of Chicago ?.the County of Cook apd the other '

57 muntcipaliqies that are interested in gove rning Ehemselves, wè h ave'.î .

. . . -a24

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1Eeen . . . -

PRESIDENT: .

senator Eorsley, he would have beea through two minutes ago if it

had aot been for interruptions. He aow h as another 40 seconds left.

.If it wasn't for some of these Senators that really don't know

what is happening in Chicago, have no care and no knowledge of probably

vhat is happening throughout the State except for their cvn private 1av

b usiness and their own associations in Springfield buty if they would

allow the City of Chicago and these othe: municipalities...

PRESIDENT:

The Seaator will conclude his remarks.

SENATOR SAVICKAS :i

regulate thelnselves , I ' m sure Lhat we can adjourn quickly y go

home and take care of our own business. vote aye on the adjournment

resolution.

SECRETARY :

S mi t h . . .

PRESIDENT:

Senator smi th.

SENATOR SMITH:

Mr. President and members of the Senate, I'm-.-ln explaining my4. ' .

vote, I t incllned to the belief that i.f I should fail to seek to ex-

plafn my vote, it mtgbt be construed as an effort and attempt on my part

to abide by the words that Senator Mohr époke a few iomenfs ago when he

requested that we merely cast our vote. If there is a'ny mecber on the

floor of this House who should aob'be here at this late hour of the

eyening, I thfnk ft fs the .speakçr who stands bçfore hfs mfke ab'thfs' -... . . ' ' '

; ' ' ' '' 'partmcular Roment. I was here last night until éast 9:00 o'clock, I've

been here durtng the

consideration of the 7 or 8 additiohal amendmenEs that will be offered

to . this' bill , tha L ke will .a11 be ''he'f'e vm til. da/ligh E . ' . I f ', in orde r-225-

J

I >

to hear properly the 7 or 8 addittonal a> ndments that u'ill be of fered

to this billy it becomes necessary that I remain here and it is necessaryk

that I remain: I assure you that with whatever strength I have I pro-

pose to be here until the last amendment with regards to this particular

bill is conceraed and subsequent bills that I will be here. I think

that the issue before us is of such greato..of such great importance

that it's needful and necessary that we be as quiet as possible, yes.

But if it becomes necessary to remain here until dayligbt, I will find

the strength to be herez But as 'regards. to the particular motion before

. us y Iêm happy to vote aye.

/SECRETARY :;=

.. .Soper, Sours...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Sours.

SENATOR SOURS:

Mr. President and Senat ors , i siould like to advert to the. conten- '

i on made that there 's no .hanky pankf in licensing ia '.chicago. I ' ve, hadt

' Z. 1 O t7 Y 2k' * C. 9 q . *

PRESIPQNT: . '

For, for what purpose does Senator Knuppel arise?

SENATOR KNUPPEL::

'

Point of order. What does licensing iave to do with adjournment?

PRESIDENT!

Senatgr Sours may proceed. He will confine higself to the mo'tion...

discussing the motion to adjourn. Senator Soursu' .

' I am thinkinj, Mr. President, of those'actors. There's a man named

Rubloff, he plays the part of MacReth in the play MacBeth. Then thqre's

a fellow by the aame of Parky Cullerton who plays the part df Hamlet in'

. uasyer...

. <PRESIDENT; .

The point of order is well taken. Senator Sours Vill confine hlm-

I .

llself to the motion to adjoura.

-SENAIeR sorRs : l' :So: I am thfnkfng about a1l of these experts ve've heard here

tonight, Mr. President and Senators. 1 don't ever me an to suggest the. j .

.. ' . w . '.' ...

. ' 1. .. ... ,ï. ciz. ieago' .iizvçryt.s'd . ' è. prlfpp t.ipri'' .' b.ut; :at 'the'' s' arrf .'L.i ze ' Chi cago, h'ak' tol'ekii't çd' , '' .' '. ': '.' x -p . r . . . : . .: . . v . .. . . .. . .. . ..2 ; e . : : 1. . . 2 ' %' . .. . ' . ' . ' . % . ' .' ' . . 6 ' ' ; : . .' ; . . ' ! . . . ' ' . .t .@ ' . * 1. ' : l

it.

l PRESIDENT:

Senator Sours will confine himself more directly to the motion to!t adJ oum

.l '..SENATOR SOURS :

In adverting to they to the matter of adjournment I would like to=

suggest to this chamber that the only expert I ever met , as I sugges ted1.i a couple of years ago, wàs a chaabermaid in the Palmer House who could

. !' Il look at a bed that had been slept in and could tell you whether it was

for love or money. I vote no.

SECRETARY: .

.. .gvinarski, Vadalabeneo...

'PRESIDENT:

Senator Vadalabene.

' SENATOR VADALABENE:: .'

Mr. President and mepbers of the Senate. I would liée to explain

my vote on a motion to adjourn. Now Senator Harris knows without going

into detail how I have voted for the pre-emption bills. Now in the last

two hours, Senator, 1 have been ualled to the phone on three different

6ccasions by Ehe heads of municipalities in my dfstrict concerning the

regulatory powers of Houàe Bill 3636. They have exp ressed to me.that

they want to continue to regulate their professions. I had to cut my

conversatiop short with them, but I do want to cite you a case in point. : . . . . '

of two weeks ago when I had the Director of.Agriculture, 'èqkdou Robb, .

, coue down to èhdison County and appear before 20 people of b usinesses';

there becaus e they are coastantly being h arassed by investigators and

' i i sue so thatinspectors. . And I ùquld hope tbat we Tzould adjourn th s q

-227-

I could talk a little bit more vith these mayors. You know how I feel

- about your bills and I would like to have a little bit more time oa

this and I am going to vote aye on the motion to adlourn.

SECRETARY:.

' . . ' .. . . .. . . z . . . . .... . : ... . :. . . - jr- (jr . . . .e . . c y . - . . ; . .... . . ï. , l '' ' . ; - :' . : .. a. . ..' 'c t a' . : z..' rx . .. e. .. a. . $14 x':t :l. (?ï 1t7 $k ' :1h; 131 '6f6$-. 1:: . ' . '. . . . ' . . . . ' . .)z. r . '.' . *' -'7 4 j ' j ; . * k: . '. 'o ' . .- ' . ' ''Y .. @ * ' ' '. . . z )'. ' j '' .. s . . . ! . . . : r . .. 1 ' . .. T' ! . ' . ' .w . . . : t . t . . . . '. f.. . '. . .

PRESIDENT:

For what p urpose does Senator Fawell iarise?

SENATOR FAWELL:

I didn't I did not vote. just b riefly vant to make this obser-

vation. That it is extremely interestinq to me to see what type of an

/issue vill prompt the other side of the aisle to usey:hese kinds oftactics. Now I think the filib us tek. is a perfectly legitimate vehicle

for one to use, b ut quite understandably I think it's to be utilized

only for very high priority items that are of the utmost importance. I've

heard some very bigh sounding words, but I've qottced tbat when it comes

to somé of the ve ry vital issue, of welfare or the pub 1ic schools of

the city of Chicago or even of open occupan cy that's been' talked about.

For the first time youfve got 'the votes, Gentlemen. and I haven't seen

'anybody on that.side of. the aisle even' file the bill this time. Some of

the real gut issues tbat really are important to this statey not that

this issue is not important; but I note that you don't utilize the

energies and the enthusiasm that you reserve when it may be that the city

of Chicago won't be able to license architects or control the plurbers

and things of this sort. I think that everyone who is watching what is

occurring here is got a bad taste in their mouth. It, is a rather dis-

gusting thirtg . to see , and I would sugges t that if. you' re 'going to use

these kinds of tactics that you reserve it for something that's really

ve ry: very tmportant for the people who need it the most abouL whom I: .

have ieard you talk. a 'grqat deal often.'.But when 'gou have some real L

opportunitites to do sometilino' --wuz ;-. don't see you doing very much.

I vote no.

PRESIDENT:

. For what purpcse does Senator--onv--For what purpose does Senator

j '-228-:

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i' .

I' tatberow artse? . . ' I

i. . h. IS

EKATOR LATHEROW: j!H

ow am I recorded?

PRESIDENT:i

'

.

t . . . . . . . .. ...: . . . .. . . ( r -. , ., . . .., .: :: . Yöp, a'vé po t :. ' . ê . ' . . . ' ' z..s . q. . . . . . :. : . e . . ' . . . .. : h '' ,..... k . . . ' l . , . . 3 ( . * ' c! ? . ' - ' '. ' . '. ' : ' ' ' . '. . . . . , . . . : . . . . . ; .., .t . .. , . . . : .J .. , o .. ; ; ' . . . : .. , .; .. .;y : . . . .. . .; :' . . . . . .. x . .. , . J . lj . a j ' . . et : ' . ' . ' . . r '

SENATOR LATERROW: ., .. . : z ' . .Mr

. President I have svt. Y*fe and listeaed to some.elements of dis-. ..1. ,. .. ' .. ''. ' ' '' 1. *' '' ' .

j

'

' . .

à tinguished careers ia the military service, and I won't discuss mine.lt ' 4I think possibly I might have something unique and I wouldn t w ant tol ..

. add that to tonight. But I couldn't belp b ut worry ab out that o1d

adage that I've heard so many times, and I'm wonderlnjg whether it's

. true or false that anymore whether you can 1e' arn more when youlre tuned

i in than you can when you're broadcasting. I vote no.' ) tl RRESIDENT:

0n that question the yeas are 25y the nays are 27. The motion to

. adlourn does not prevail. For wbat purpose does Senator Egan arisd?

SEXATOR EGAN: ' ' '. .fj ' .

. . ''

J Mr. Presideat and members of the Senate. To demonstrate to the'. wemberà and to çhose present the facility with whi ch tbe body bas moved

: . . ' ' . 'S tonight and the speed with which it has moved. We have had p re vious ly

only one verification of the roll call. I would lfke this roll call also

to be verified.

PRESIDENT: '

Do you wish the affirmative or the negatfve vot'es? '

SEHATOR ECXN : ' ' '

s k ''ihe negat ve otes .' ' PRESIDENT: '

That is in order. Senatorsqwill.be in their seats. The Secretary

' will call the negative voteso' .' ' . .

' ' : '

. S E C I?VE T A RY : .

' Ealtz... , .

' PRESIDENT:

. . . ' ' . ' j . . '. . . -22 - .

. ' '. .' . . .

. . 'a

Jus t a moment. For what purpose does Senator Neistein arise? '

-SENATOR NEISTEIN:

Am I in order to ask for a Democratic caucus at this time?

. PRESIDENT: , !

.., ' .' . ! . ..v. > . $. . . . .. . ' . xra*. ' uo . /.v.4 qt+.0 ot.4 tarjl 'h mq: ,ts(Aen'.. rea tl'es ted i '..W at ig nOt in 'Qvder ' . : ' ï ' , ' , . '.'4; , . ..J ...' : .!: '.. ' . :';: & . ', yj . .. .' .' j. ..' .:. .. ' q.g . . xj 1r . . ;t.K! %.a.1r...@ : d . , JE %-.% t.g.*.. .. .%. .-c ,u,. -w... . --, --t. . .Ar. huw .r. --,, *-. x.. 7. e--y w---'. ..:z -- .-zz, -- --.. , c-. z . zu zi;q . . . ... ; . %. o , z. .. .... .. .. j., .- ' z. ,a . ..., .. .. .., . r. j (J ; . .. ' . . ;. : .'... .

.

.... , . , . ,.,.

. y .. .() . . . :. . . . , t . . . . . . . . % , . ;;

at this time.

# . . . . ' '. ! g . . . . . .

Baltz, Berntng, Bi dwill, Carpentier, Carroll, Clarke, Collinsy

' . Coulson...

PRESIDENT:;$

Is Senator Collins here? Remove Senate Collin's nare.

SECRETARY: ' '

...Davidsoa: Fawell, Gilbert...

PRESIDENT:I

centlemea, ceatlemen, senator colltnts aame wtll be added. Let me i

just add, if I may join in a bit of bi-partis anship. I think Senator

Fawelz's comments vere. . .tlae portiou .of tlfem in 'talktng about our .

decorum, were well put and I think that we have to conduct ourselves in

. such a way that we reflect credit upon ourselves and upon our state.

Contin'ue with the roll call of.k.verification. '

. . .craham, Groen , Harris , Hors 1ey , Knuepfer , Latherow , Laughlin ,

. AcBroom, Merrit t . httt chlqr . Mohr k ozinga , Ros ander , 'Sours , .Walker , Weaver .

' ' PRESIDENT: .. . . ' '. . j

. For what purpose does seaator--For what purpose does senator uarris

arise: . . I

. SENATOR HARRIS: ' . '

To proceed with the order of b usiness that is before us which is the

' consideration of amendment aupber two. Senator. Partee Eaé closed .the ' ' '

debate and I move to table amendment nurb er one to 3636. It is nor . ''' . ' t f i tt cooperating with your .debatable and I ve been standing here pat. en y,

responsibility to recogqize gveryoae; but I say to you, Mr. President,

' ' ' that my motton is tn order and tt ts the maeter now befôre this body', to '

-2 K -

. ' . . .

table ameadment nucber oae to House 8111.3636 and it is aot deb atab 1e.

PRESIDENT:

The motioa to tab le is in order. For what purpose does Senator II

Donnewald arise'l

. '. : . . . .. . . .. .xwwvrop . nnuxw xnh., . . . .. . .. . , . . .. .c. . : . .. .'; :'' . ., s . .. . . ,. .. .. ..' . .. (. . . .. . . . .z.., ... . '%.J J w . . ..J' . ;'...z '. . ..: .i . . .yor '-/<' en<œ'. wcœa. y aev -e*-*'. ;2. --''w.. ..*œ-e x-j. . y..e. '.,,...( L .- .&k . ) y 6 +% / : '',. w.; .(. .w '.a . . ... x! ;.. ' ; . .. .: . '. .w.... .y. . l ; !:.) . . '. . .. ); e ., y . ;f.' . .'*.5 . ' ' ' ' ' : ' .z v t . . f . 1 .z n : ; . : 5 19 . ; .. . . z ' . 2% : 7' ' . f' ' '1 ' ' * . '.. ' @ 't .. , . . ... . . w . . ::, . .. . .. . s) . . . . .. : . . . ; ; :. .. .: , . ;g ..: 41 . . v .. 4 : ::. .

Well: Mr. President, I voted on the prevailing side of the motion

' ' for the previous ques tion y and haW ng voted on that p'revailing side I

waated to move to reconsider the vote by which this motion for the

previous question prevailed and 1' asked for a roll :all.

PRESIDENT:J$ /

I-.vsenator Donnewald did vote on the prevailing side. However,;'

. jI am advised tbat the motion to 1ay on the tab'le takes precedence and

the uotion before the body is the motion to 1ay on the t db 1e. And on

that...senator Donnewatd?

SENATOR EONNEWALD:

I am going to appeal the ruling of the Ch air.

' ' PRESIBENT: ' .

' senator.Donndwald appeals the ruling of the Chair. ' bn...senator '.

. ' Neistein? . '. 2

' SENATOR NEISTEIN: .

I know that Senator Donnewald has made a aotion to appeal the

ruling, but I wonder if we could, in an effort to restore s anity here:

if we could have a' democratic caucus at this time in the 6tb floor office.

' And I so move. ' .

PRESIDENT: ' . I.

' 'jWel1,. the motion for a recess is in order, b ut it takes...The motion... '

.'.'lust--.if I can back up a little bit..'.I have lust been advised that the

' motion, under rule 52, the motion to reconsider takes precedence over a11

. ' ' j .. other Muestfons exc'ept the motion to adl. ourn, so that Senator Donnewald s '

. moticn is is orf ' =.he...;.Gea Senat8r Donnewaldlsz môtion- .unen we ';

' have no,motton before the body your mociop will be in order, Senator, or .

ff you can get. agreesent on' zeadership, and if you can work something

. .zgy. .

l .

' . j

. ' !out to get this thiag ironed out I'm for it, believe me. QUESTION before

the body is the recoasideration ol the motion for the previous tgestion.

Senator Harris.

1 SENATOR HARRIS:

C .. : . ' . : ' . . . .' . I ' 4 ' ' . #. : * :... . . .. . . 'xow , Mr. , x'rièârtdeat a z uant ekldettcd. .ofr what ttme thtà bokly.. 'reeoh.. -.? .

'sidered this motion which is before us now, my motion to table., .r

'

,

j . . . ' . ' . . '. '' . *PRESIDEHT: ' '.

The, the motion is not the motion to reconsider the motioa to lay oat .t

'

. '

1 the table. The motion is to reconsider the motion for the previous

question , and the Gair ruled initially a .as it turns out , . in error be-5t

. cause, frankly, I don't recall this ever having arisen before. The

Chair ruled in error that that...your motion took precedence. âs it

q turns out the motion to reconsider, which may be made on any question:1! ,:-

' takes precedence over al1 motions except the motion to adjourn. The

Secretary will call the roll. This requires tbe two-thirds majorfty to. recoasider.

'' sEcitii'rza,f : ' .

! Arrington, Baltz, Bèrning: Bi&zil1... '

: . PRESIDENT: . . .

; ' ' Senator Clarke. .

SENATOR CLARKE:

Would you explain for the mewbers...They are getting y.little tired. '. ; ' . e t '

of these maneuvers. Would you explain f8r them how they would vote if' .

tkey Want to uphold the Ch ai r?

PRES IDENT : . , . -- . . . : . .. , .

. ' ' *' '

The question is no longer the upholding of the ruling of the Ch air .

because tlle G atr was in error , in rcy ruling. The Chair , the Chair ruled

that Senator Donnewald's motion was not in order. The...It has been

' ' pointed out to me since thit, under ruqe 52 that is .in order and çhe '. $

. Chair revarseâ that deci>ton and.now we are voting on Senator Donnewald'sr 5

motioaa to reconsider. Those in favor of the motion to reconsider v.'klt

' vote in the affirmative. Those opposed to the motion to reconsi er w .

' . . . .2. 3 2 - . .'

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. @ ' . * :

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IVote in the negatiye. Yesy Senator Clarke. ik' k.

.. !SEXATOR CLARKE: .

WN t re we reconsidering Mr. President ? 'a a a

PRESIDENT :

TNe motion to . . .'I'he motf on to close debate . And the Chair will'

add phen thts ts dts'pospd of I'm going to recogatze senator Harris for

the motion to lay on the table, so weere going to en1 debàte one way

or another here. The question is the motion to reconsider.

SECRETARY :

.. .Bidwi11, Bruce...Y

PRESIDENT:

Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:l

. Itfs late and I'm tired. If 1 w ant to vote with Senator Donnewald,

vhich way do I vote?

. ) PRESIDENT:;'' You vote yes.l .

./ . .SENXTOR BRBUE:!

I vote aye.

SECRETARY:

oa.carpentie<, Carroll Cherry, Chew...

PRESIDESI:

lènator cherry.

SENATOR CHERRY:

I believe weîre voting on a motion èo rqconsider.the vote by.which

. the motion for the previous question was passed. .'Is that correct?'.

PRESIDENT:

j 'Tbat s correct.

SENATOR CHERRY:

' Qkay, I voted for that motton', also. Nov it seeps to me that inf

'

vfev of the commeats that were made with respect for the merits of' the

bill. together vith the amendment that was offered by Senator Partee,

- 2 33-

; .

that it would seea to De that we shoul d aot limit the deb ate on thisi '

' lissue. It has beea pointed out by t%e karious members of the Seaate

that this is an iaportaat issue in 58 wunicipalities of the State of

Illinois. Aad as I said before, 1,122,000 people voted to adopt our1'; preseat constttutton; and ta view of that vote and in view of the fact

that we are tryina to stop debate on this vital lssue i gaoring and

completely emaciating, if you please, 'the vote by whi ch this new Con-

stitution was adopted. And it would seem to 'me there are many provi-

li sions of this Constitution id again s ub mitted to the people of thei .

. State; that the ne= Constitution vould.-.the results adopting the newk! > constitution would be constderabl changed.y

PRESIDES'I' :

l ê) senator Horsley arise?i For what purpose d es! 1'

) s,'ENAToR uoascEx :' THis has absolutely nothing to do with the question before the

' ' House, and I'm getting tired of these speeches that have 'noèhing to do

, j .. 'i Wi6S VUC YSSVC< ' ' H ' '.

' .'

. . . .' . , ' .

J PREsInEsT: .Senator will confine himself... .

,F . . ' . . .. . SENM OR HORSLEY : .

' Now, let's hold it in the lines p1e ase.

SENATOR CHERRY :

. I1d suggest to Senator Horsley: if he's tired, he lives in Spflng-

field and' his fome is 'not too far away. And I am addressing myself to- the issue of this motion because thts motion limited the deb ates,

i if ou kn-ow on what okder of b usiness '.. Senator Horsley. I don t know y

ve' re on becatuse you've been cons tantly lzarassing every menber of this

Seaate on our slde vho seeks to speak on this vi ta1 issue. Now again

he's doing that, and I'm'going to make a motion.-.l'm going to make a

' motion to discipline Senator Horsley from intarrupting eve ry mepber oft' , th> seaate on this stde vho vants to sake a vital and valid comment.

:PRESIDENT:

' .

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Just a moment. Senator Horsley, you are prolonging things tonight.) i

There's no question' about it. ' 1.''... .. ''' '

j

iSENATOR CRERRX : ,

And he's out of order.$' FRESIDENTJ '

' lnd letfs move along. Senator. Senator Cherry.

t SENATOR CRERRY:l .

Now itts vital that we donet limit the deb ate on this tssue and it

t ' ' ab s of the senate on b0th sideswould seem to me there are many more me erlt '. that would like to talk to the mertts of the ameudment thatfs been

Y ffered by senator Partee; and ia view ot this fact I Lhiak that ve! 0

hastily voted to end the deb ate and moved for the previo us question.

Now in view of that fact, >1r. President and meabers of the Senatey itt

' 1 Qould seem to me that we ought to seriously consider our thoughts in1 p

cutting off debate and limiting the comments of the members of the

Senate to conslder thfs vftal problea and so on this vote.- lf you'd

; . sit down , Senator Horsley , and bebave yourself ., I 'm not sure if that 'si1 ' .' . '

.l - . easv for vou to do. And I'm zoin: to ask. Mr. Frestdent. that Senatorl ''' ''' --'' - - ' .' Horsley be comuitted to his seat . '

; . . .

: Senator Cherry's time is up. The Senator will conclude his remarks. .

SEKATOR CRERP.Y : ' ' '

Maybe j us t committedy I'm not sure what motion I w ant to make. I

Vote aye. ' ' -.

SECRETARY: '

Clarke... . --

PRESIDENT: '

SENATOR CLARKE:

Mr. prestdeat' and meobers of the senate. rhe other day we deb ated

L a bill that vas a malor bill in this sessioa called ethics. And I made

. a state'ment at that time that that was a terrible way to consider a btll,

. .za5- .

) .L. -;: .

as we did that day and as we are still in the process of doing. And tàat

- - - - -- - - haell. ia-stfll-before thfs .legislat-fve-body w-QT that sublvçt. We haye-

some other important subjects that are before this body and 1 want to

make the pofnt that no matter hou the pro tem deffnes ft...And I'm gofng

to...l don't want to be timed while I'm not being listened to by the

prqsfdfng offfcer. No matter hov you deffne a fflfbustery you knov and we

know and the public knows that this is a filibuster. ind youy Mr.

Lt. Governor: are particlpacing in it Juse as you did the otber day.

If this session ends up. if thfs sessfon ends up in a disgraceful...

PRESIDENT;

Senator Clarke has the Floor.

SENATOR CL/RKE:

.. .in a disgraceful situation like this, it is your responsibility

for kïlling ethicsz for killing personal property tax. Yesy killing

a personal property tax and relief for the people of this state.

PRESIDENT:

Just.a moment. 'For what purpose does Seiator Knuppel arise?

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

I've bcen in this body for a long tlme and tbe man who conducts

himself, the Kan who conducts himself...

PRESIDENT:

Just a moment. Just a Doment. Centlemen: Senator Knuppel has

the floor. What is your point: the point of order?

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

Certainly the Lieutenant Covernor of our state should not be de-

meaned by anyone for his conduct. His conduct is exemplary at a11 '

times. Attack me if you want to, it's not...l11 PRESIDENT:

. Justn .senator Clarke.may proceedzj') 'l ENATOR C'l-xluti: :. s1E z am not attacking anybody's conduct. . am merel: pointtng out tbel .

(

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!fact. as I did previous 1y, that a presiding officer can or cannot shut. . à I

off this kn-n d of disgraceful conduct aaytime he wants to. Paul Powell'

;dfd ity t've seea htm. John tewis did ity I've seen him. Aad it could

be doae right here tonight anytime the presidipg officer wants to. But' j

: t' if he wants ethics and personal property tax relief and other impottant

' '

.issues to go down the' drain this session, that's j ust what is happening.I ' ,

'$ ' PaEsloEx,r : .'j '

l What ts the poiat of order, senator Partee?tj '' SENATOR PARTEE:

Would Senator Clarke yield to a question? Are you suggesting that

the tteutenant Gove rnor is Paul Powell or Joha Lewis? And are you

suggesting that he should do anything other th an, outside...other than

$ what the rules of this Seaate provide?1 pRE/ sznEuz:

coatinue the roll call.

' SECRETARY:/ .' . ..Co11ins, Coulson...1

. '

!

'

.! PRESIDENT:6 .

Senator Coulson.'' ;' SENATOR CODLSON:l

I should like to recouat the partliamentary position in which 1: I

. ' am convinced we find ourselves and ask for confirmation at this stage.

A series of amendments were going to be'offered to Senator Harrisîs bill. '

He made a motion to table the first amendment and then stated he would

i hile there v as full desate upon it. There w as full. withhold that mot on w

. . deb ate. Evervone who wished to be beard upon this s ubiect was heard.% . @ v

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''e .

It was debated extensively. Everyone was recognized and the Chair

finally satd, 'Yenator Earris may Yow 'close the debate.î' These are

' . kords of art in a parliamenfary bodyk 'That siatement was made by the' Chatr. Senaror Harris did speak. Pe then éid close debate and. as of

'. that noment, with a huadred years of traditton behind us , a motion. for .

' fhe Previotus ques tion was . out of order, was completely unnecessazy ! was' completely superbluous . No further deb ate cduld have Veen entertained.

. -2 :7-.. . . . . .

. ' ' . . . ' '''''' '' I* , . .

q ,j . .

Nhether this motioa prevails or noty the immediate ne*xt order o/

bus iness ts. a roll call and I s ub mit that is vhat the tape on the fifth! . i

floor vill show. I have lfstened to it carefully andy omtt the inter- I. ' j

ruptfons, that is our parliamentary positioa. The debate is closqd on 1

the merits. It has been conducted. The Chair specifically authorized

Yenator Harris to close the debate. Ee dfd soy and I vote no on the

present motion.

PRESIDENT:

' . Senator Coulson is in error in h:s recollection, b ut the man who

t closedo..tbe Senatoro..senator.g.you can.w.senator Coulson check withi

senator Harris on thts, tf you will. Senator Donnewald was recognized

' following Senator Partee's closing of the debate, and he made a motion'

that according to our rules was in order. Now he has made another motion

i that according to the rules is in order, even though I have to confess

I donlt recall it ever having been made before. Ande..The motion to re-.

: uzoaconsider the vote on the previouà question. And that is t e ques'

. before the body now and the Secretary will coatiaue vith the roll.

SECRETARY: ,

v.wcoursey Davidsony Donnewald...

FRESIDENT:

Senator Donnewald.

SENATOR DONNEWALD:

This ts a motion Iem voting oa that I made and it's having voted on

. the prevailing side I did then move to reconsider the vote by which tbe

motion for the previous ques tion p revailed y and that f s what we ' re voting

on at the pfesent timç. During the course of th4 debate on' thts .

particular motion I heard the word disgraceful. Yesy Mr. President and

members of the Senate. the means and methods used.by lobbyist of the

' .varfous organizations te fling their members half'truths to press their

' legislators ia their various districts. EB vote for' this legtslation.

TNly doa't tell them everythings believe mex not every thing, about a' . 1 yy aware of whaè oppor-. fourth or less of çhe truth. When they rè rea y

. .2 aa. .

t t jtuaities they have to have thts legislation they say, Vell 1 djda t

know that.'' That'à the part that's disgraceful, Mr. President ahd

members of this body, that these lobbyist didn't tell, didn't tell their

membership. They werenet truthful with them and that's what I reseat.

ànd I've told eve ryone of the people that called me and written that

they better go back, each and everyone, and they' apologized for not

knowing all of the facts and I vote aye on this motton.

SECRETMW :

. ..Dougherty...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Dougherty.

SENATOR DOUGHERTY:

Much of this argumeat webve heard here tonight has been...the

#remfse has been one city in the State of Illinois. That we who arep

residents of that city are attempting to do something here that is not

right, whi ch is not the truth. As I stand here I remember standing down

ia the well of the Rouse, of thç SenaLq herq q ufte a n uùb eq of years ago

I took an oath yo uphold the Constitution of the-state of Illinois and

to serve al1 residents of the state as well as I eould. And that's what

I an tryfng to do and I'd like to tell you that weere a great state

opposed to many villages, hanlets: corporated villages if you wfll.

We have the town of Cicero the largest town in the Pnited 'States. We

have the village of 0ak Park: the iargest village in the fnited States.

And these psople ia these cities have made great progress. Theyfve m'ade

Illinois the State that it is. They have made Illinois the third

ri chest state in the Union. They have made Illinois outstanding in 'the' '

..field of education. tt ts 'these citfes, it is these ccrns that we're

standing here trying to protect. can think of Springfield needs the

protectfon .of this body and you' 're ùot giving it to it.. I can think of

v

'

' ' fPeoria, you re not helpiag Paoria. .1 can think of Pekin. you re not

helpïng Pekin. I can think of Granite City, youfre not trying to take

f t)m Grantte ' City the rights that they have . From Eas t St . Lvuis' ' f rqmr .

-2 39 -

&e+< . - ..... ..xa.x... .... x... .,

. ' . .

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from Danville, from a1l of these towns. You people are the perpetrators.

!

of a fraud upon the people you representa fs chat you are dofng. !

Standtag here listening to the blandishments of a group of vell-healed '.

I

'

h' do aot really have the best fntercst of the staee of heart. /people w oWe o'n this side of the atsld are tryfag to protect the rfghts of al1 of

' the people in the State of Illtaots y and you are succumbfng to the rfghts

o: luat a few indtviduals who know not vhere they#re going and they don't

kaow where theyVve heen. And they are leading you down the same paths

you don't know where youlze going. 1 am really e'cb arrassed to think that

the men tîat 1 serve with are in, put in a position t*at they doa't kaov

/what they are doing. They are betraytng their interest. They are/

walking away from their oath of office. That's what you are doing in

'

supporting legislation of this type. Th atls what we want a full hearing

k .' a clear hearing.

PRESIDENT:

The Senator uill conclude his remarks.

SENATQR EODèRERTY: . . . ' . ' .

I am ve ry happy to vote Aye.

. pazszpEuy:

- .

For what pu?pose does Senator Groea artse? '

. l' SENATOR GROEN:

Is this a motion Lo reconsider thc previous quistion?

pagszpExz:

. . .

That is correct. .$ .

SEWATOR CROEN: . ' '

' Is the previolzs ques tlott debatable ? '

PRESIDBNT: ' .

It is nùt. ' '

. * .è àN - ' . V ' ' .' . '

. SENAT R cR0 : w

'ttea ehis fs not debatable.&.

. '

. . PRESIDEN'I': , ' .. , ,.

That is correcc.

' ' *240- '' '

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SENATOR GROEN:

And I vould ask the Chafreto invoke Rule 47, please Mr. Ch ai rmana

in the sease of decency: in the sense of the honor of this body, I

:. ipplore you to us e the chair to break this.

PRESIDENT:

Well, Senator Groen, 1 was Just speaking vith Senators Partee and

I ld very much like to see this thing resolved. The fact isEarris. vou

the rules say that any Senator may speak for not longer th an three

miautes in explanation of his vote on any roll call. And this has always

u been the practice of this body. Séaator Groen.

SENATOR GROEN:

So, I would also call the Chair's attention. There is an excl usion

1of that in rule 47. Very clear, it is not debatab 1e. And I would alsocall the Chair's atteation to Robert's Rules of Order, vhi ch says clearly

that explanation of a vote on a motion to adjourn for example or any' such nondebatable motion constitutes debate and is not permitted. Well,'

. , j.. . pur rules takes prepeden ce over Robert s Rules of Order . The Cha r would

rule, and I think properly so> undqr rule 34, Sehators may e xplain their

vote. Continue the roll call. '

SECRETIRY : . '

...Egan...

PRESIDENT:

Seaator Egan. ' '

. SENATOR EGAN : . .

Mr. president and mesbers of çhe staate. zt's tnteresting indeed . I'

to aote that senator Fawezl. tn' h1s dzsserta

. tton and

'

ftltb usters'

tndi- s 1

cated that he would be in favo r of filib us tering onlys h ouevery wben it

met the needs of his own fate rp retation of the gravity of the matter

. . . . 'at hand. I recall sevqral timesy many days in this body we sat and we ' .. ' . . .

. hearb Sealtor Fawell express his belief on particulzr legislàtion to the

' point ad nauseam. Iy as well as my colleaguesy sat silent and let him I

. exprpss his views... ' ' . .' .' . . .

. . . .c 4 j. .

. . i

, * . '

j , ' >

; . ' '. * ' I

. IlPRESIDENT: 1 -.

. qJus t a moment now. If anyone want: to make a point of orde: he

should do it properly. The Senator will confine hiaself to the motion

at hon d. But you make a point of order lot by shouting in your seat, b ut

',

' by gettfng the attentfon of the Chair. Senator Egad cfll proceed.

. SENATOR EGAK: '

1 Mr. President, 1et me contfnue please on my exp lanatfon of my vote. '.

.J *

, '

$ . .on the potion. We were dtscussing the philosophy of a filib us ter andti! I was recalling , Mr . President ' and meeers of the b ody , s ome of thett ': history of this 77th General Assec: ly in this body. And I do that

b 'eCauSe...

PRESIDEHT:

, For what purpose.o-For what purpose does Senator Horsley arise:l .

'

t S/ENATOR HORSLEY:I vant him to keep his remarks to the point at hand.

PRESIDENT :!/ .j .

The Senators wtll sonfiae hirself to the question of deb ate on the1 . .j - issue. . . -1

SENAXOR EGAN:

Jl Th ank you Mr. President. 1 hope 1'm able to' do that. But the .) .' whole discussion oa filib ustering is indeed one which h as come to ex-

press that the s ublect matter vhi ch ts at h and is not serious . 1. again

would like to remind the merbers of the Senate that in the State of

Illinois there are moue than one municfpalfty. There are 1,165 punïcf= '

palittes in the state. This amendment affeccs each and eve ry one of

' he murlf cipalf ties ln tie s tate . That seerns eo me , ' Mr. Pre'sf dent and 't

members, to be certainly as important as i00 000 school children that

' aiteùd private schools', and I vould suggest that because of the gravfty

.' . . of thi. s ubject matter that' eve ryone lfstening... . ' '

. ê . . .

' PREST-DENT : ' ' .

. Seaator will conclude his remarks.

. . . ' solTbR EGAN : . ' .. . . . 2 '

. ' ' . . . o.açteztivelys Th ank you. . 1 vole yes. . .' . . .. . .

.z 4 g . . .. .' . ' *

l . . . 'j . . . . j . ' . . ...

;

'

. :

' SECRETARY: I

Favekl Gilbert, Graham, Groen Halla Harris: Horsley, Hynes...

#RESIDENT: '' j

senator Hynes. 'j

SENATOR ITNES:

Mr. Fresident, metb ers of the Senate. I originally supported i

Senator Donnewald's motion for the previous question because at that' .'

time I thought we had had ample deb ate on this matter, that we had '

made, I think: si gnificânt points with respect to the impact this legis-

lation would have on each and eve ry municipality ia this state, and

we had poiated out the fact that substantial revision of local ordinances

would be necessary , that local police powers would be impaired; but now .

based upon the discussion that w: have had since: I think we should;

take another look at this matter and reopen the discussion. I think

that's particularly true in view of the comments that Senator Horsley h as

been making. I think he has made some ve ry interesting points and ones

which we should consider more carefully than we have.' Youfll recall

that this matter came before us on a motion to discharge comnittee.

It was held in commi ttee originally. with a view toward again discussing. >

it in the spring sessioa; and I think that that decision to hold it was

a wise one when it was made and I think the debate here proves that is

even a more sound decision. And I would suggest, particularly in view

of the important questions that Senator Horsley b as raisep and the doub ts

that he has cast on perhaps the meaning of this legislatidnj that we

should have another look ak it. . Now perhaps the best place to consider

this is not on the floor of the Senate. Perhaps we should send it b ack

to commfttee for further consideration, and I would certainly be happy

. ' . to join Senator Horsley ia such a motlon. But I do think, whether it be

done here on the floor or in committee that this matter, which affects

èach and every munfcipality in this city, in this state rather,'and which '

threatens to impalr thei: ability to properly man age thevselves in

. conaecfios with P Lb. 1ic Realth and Welfare, should be further debatedy .

. . . .a4g. .

. '' '2: '

. *I . . +

'

jVe have heard Several comrentaries to the effect that thfs is not an '

' t .taportast matter. kell z thtak it is pérhaps one of the most s/gnificant

Iiss ues that Kill come before this sessfon of the General Assembly; aad I

I!I thi

ak that for us to proceed rashly, enact this statute and put the 11 .'; municipalities in a defenseless position would be pérhaps the worst act

this Legislature h as taken in itxs history. We kould be setting the

t clock back 60 years if this bi11 passes.

PRESIDENT:

t 'Senator will conclude his remarks.t . ' ..

. SENATOR IIYNES :

' We would be setting the municipalftfes back to a position less

' desirable than the one they had prior to the passage of the new Constitu-

, tion. This does not restore the situation simply to that which existed

tù Kovember of 1970. It puts us back to the situation of 1890.!

'

p(

' seaator will conclude his...

4 .., ' SENATOR HYXES: '

l - I vote aye. ' . -1l

SECRETARY:

ë1 ...Johns, Knuepfer, Knuppel... . .i' ' FRESIDENT:

Senator Knuppel. . '

SENATOR KNEPPEL: .

I surely hope that the parliamentarian keeps tl'aek of my interrup-

.'tions. I seem to break all rekords. :ut vhea I heard that motion,

you kaow, to limit debate. What do they call it? Motfon to...Wh at w as

that motion? Motion to...0h! The previous question. That's right.

. Aad you knov, the mtnute I voted I knefz Iêd made a mistake, because I

. so seldom make em; and tt'é foç that repson that I feel nqv I w ant to

correct that, because I dl dn't realize h cv fmportant this matter vas.'

âs you recall the first ttme I spoke this evening I pofnted out we had

ethlcs lejislation, the abolition of 'personal.property taxes , and all'. ' . .244- . . .

. ' -!..-. . ' .. . . .. . ' . . .. .

N' .

. . ' . .

of those really vhat I thqught were important things; and this hasl

' lb-on about the third time in this session we have discussed this

propositton. And thea, too, I would like to hear a little more about

this fella Paul Powell. Somebody told me he vas earthy and flaab oyant1'; kind of b ulldoggish and he sounds kind of like, you'kaow, he might have I

been an interesting character. And he is admired so by the other side

and cited as an example that maybe if we reopened the deb ate we'd get

to hear more about htn. Hels kind of a living legend it seecs. I

l donft remeczer much about him, but there are some things that have1lk ....

' occurred since I made that mistake. You know, they told ue, too, that

he came from kind of an outlying community and I grew up in an outlying

coamunity. The people there, they can J ust about out 1ie anybody. And '1

I think that's what's been happening around the state here with some ofl .; eiese people. They have been coming into my district. znd I only got; ! r' one, home rule unit: b ut they been telling the people in 'Cantona and

' Podmk , and Pisby Swite.h , Bone Gap and everyplace else y that they would( ) . . .

;' jus t be put out of b ùsiness if they'didn't have this state licensing lav.(

- Most of those people didn't even realize that. ào I think we ought toldiscuss this matter further. ' . '

2 szossz:PRE! .; '' Senator wfll conclude his remarks.

SENATO: KNUPPEL: '

0h, I will. I will. It takes precedence over some things like

. . abolition of personal property tax and matters of mental health matters

of ethics and a1ï those thingsr. An. d Paul Powell, come to think of 1t,

had..pHe kind of got messed up in that eiéics queskion sonewhere didn't

he? I vote, I vote aye, yes. .

SECRETARY.: ' .' .' I

o..Kosinskiy Kusib ab , Latherow, Laughlia: Lyonsy McBroo/y Mccarthy,

' . Merritt, Mitchler, Mohr... ' ' '

J.2! PRESIDENT: <

- ' Senator Mohr. . . ' ' .

. . . -z4 5.. . . '

SENATOR MOHX:

Mr. President. after the session, if it should end this evening,

Ifo going to pass the hat for about three dollars a head, :0th sides

of the afsle aad anybody in the press box or ia the gallerg that mi ght' ywant to contrib ute. I m gonna try .and get enough money to finance a two

week canoe trfp for tgo. Who said that? I vote no.

SECRETARY:

o.oxeistein, Nevhouse, Nihilly 01Brien...

PRESIDENT:

. senator Nihill.

! SENATOR NIHILL:

Mr. President & Senators of thts b ody . I remember ab out three #

four years back herey about three o'clo ck in the morling, the latel

Bill Lyons was alive, and Lord be good to his soul. %he conduct of one

individual in this here Seaate tonight reminds me of that night, that

morning rather. This is ridiculous to have a thing like this going on.'ï .

You know, : little child wouldnlt carry on the way this individual is.

' . e :'' h é h:s resence.I m ashamed of him. I m asharrd of myself bei g ere n p

lhis is ridiculous. j ust canlt understand why an indivi dùal can carry

on like he's doing. I don't know whates going on b ack theres b utJ occaaionally I see a white cup going up and dovn. This thing here...

PRESIDENT:

Senator will' conffne hfmself to the questfon at h and.

SENATOR NIHILL:

Wells Mr. President and Senators. You just caa't sit here and take

these things and eat them and swallow them. If I was as close to home

as you, Ifd go hope. And this voul d be a better place to work this here

vight. I vote aye.

SECRETARY:

...0'Brtea& Ozingax Palmer, Partee...

. . pREsInENT:

Senator Partee.

-246

SENATOR PARTEE:

Wells this j ust goes oa aad on because every time somebody gets up'- j

he says something that isaet so that you feel you have to answere' And

I vas a little suprised at Senator Fawell toni ght when he said that

sometimes we don't address ourselves to issues vhich are important to

people that ve are elected by. And he mentioaed.that he didn't see

a fatr housing 1aw in this session of the Legislatures and be knows

that the strength of the statutory enactment at the federal level, plus

the strength of the Constitution at the state level, plus the strength

of the federal Dnited States Suprene Court's decisions makes a law$

which would possibly be p assable here not' nearly as strong as our exist-

ing situation; and to impune. although circuitous 1y, the integrity of

those wbo have fought in that breach for many years I think is unfor-1T tpnatey unnecessary and insulting. He knows very well. But I'm just

saying here, and this is what this is all about: that the presiding

officer in Peoriay in Danville, in Springfield, and in Waukegan , in1 Freeport or Vankakee, and in Rock Island, and Pontiacz and Bloomington,

and Joliety and Carbondale do not have to come to Springfield with hat

in hand after the home rule amendments to be subjected to what I've

' ' jheard here tontght , hooting and cat calls : and puerile artd chi dish

manifestations. Nov somethingy sometime has to give, it seems to me>

and I've made eve ry effort to t ry to see if we co uld reacb some accord.

There seegs to be an inflrxible position with the sponsor of this legis-

lation, and'l don't know 'how we're going. to get along here. 1'm going

to sar this. I'm going to vote aye on his motion' and ar the end of

this roll call, Mr. President, I'm going tb ask for a democratic caucus

of about 30 minutes so that we may sit down and regroup and dis cuss

among ourselves some possibitities so that we can gèt baek to the

b usiaess. It's distressing to me to hear hollering and shouting like

high school boys on the floor of this Senate. I vote aye.

l SECRETARY:

. ..Rock...

-247-

PRESIDENT:'

j. k..- Senator oc .

dEXATOR RocK:

Mr. Preaideat, members of the Senate. Againy you wi1l recall that

1 made the iaquiry of the chair the last tire on such a rotioa as we

are now voting on. And that was followed by a questfon, and I'm

ffankly again not too sure on the way the rules are vritten. But

would then-.aAss uming we are now back at the point where the'amendment

is to be adopted or not adopted, would then a motion to recommit be in

order?

PRESIDENT:

Motion to reconmki t wotzld not be in orde r.

SENATOR ROCK :

Velly I call the Chair's attention to rule %6. And it says until

it is decided shall preclude all amendments oa the main question.

P RESIDENT:

4 ' ' ' ' ' '()a rute 5 you will note that to. . elrhere is ' an order of precedence :

starting out with to adjoura, to question tbe presence of a quorum,

Eo 1ay on the table 'the previous question. The motion ro lay on the

tab le and the previotus ques tton take p recedeace over the motion t o commi t .

SENA'DR ROCK :

Welt, the point of my inquiry , Sir. Excuse me. 1he poiat of my in-

qui ry, howevers is that the first line of rule 45 est ablishes a premlse

' under whi ch one lays that priority of motions and it says when a questlon

is ' urtder .deb afek I am 'told that at . the point at whi c,h yhis mction 'is

decided the debate wil1 be closed. Is that correct?

PRESIDENT:

Whea this ques tiotl is throug: , the debate will be compieked s' yes .SENATOR ROCK:

Alright, and then before..uuntil the question of a motion to re-

commit fs dccided, ft sha'll preclude a11 amendments aBd a11 debate on

the main questton. And I suggest..-

-2482

' .. . . ( . !. . . . ' . .

. . r'

PRESIDENI: 'j'

- - Yes. A11 amendments and debate on the main question. The main

. question fn this case befng the amendmeat itself.

SENATOR ROCK:

' Again, I V/uld respectfully disagree vith the Chaïr and pursue my . p

point of inqui ry. It shall preclude a11 amendments. Now rather th an

have a motion 1ie on the table conqe raing amesdment ùucber one which

has beea offered: I am going to make a motion to preclude any and a11

. amendments at this potnt.

PRESIDENT:

Well, the Chair will make a decision when that time comes. In

' the meantime...

SENATOR ROCK:

Welt I j ust Woadered. I did the Same thiag the Zast time and We' i to vote aye. 'got a little bolixed up. I m go ng

'SECRETARY:

' .' . . ' àomano , Rosander, sa'pers tetn , savickas , . smith soper , sours . . . '..w . . :

PRESIDENT: '

Senator Sours.

SENATOR SOURS:

I think a1l this foolishness tonight...lf it proves anytbing: if!

it even mildly suggests anything, it's machine politics; and the tragedy

is that some of the downstaters also have that silly ring tn their nose

. aad a dog collar around their necks. I vote no. . .. ' . .

SECRETARY : . . . .. .

' . ..svinarski, Vldalabene... .'

' ' PRESIDENT: ' ' .

Senator Vadalabene. .

' ' . . ' . SENATOR VADALABENE: ' . ' i

. . ' .. . ' . . Mr. President, I've just had about enough of this sour dtarrhea.

' I am a dotmastater without a ring in my nose; aad, Senator Harris, if he .

. conttnues that ktad or an attack on me. you're goîng to lose' me come hell

' -249-

. . . ................. ........... ...... . '' ... .... . . . .... . ..' .. ..

. ' ' .*

or high water and I vant him to apologize.' x

P OS WSW 1 '1

Continue wfth the roll call. t

SECRETARY:i;

'

'

' .. .Walker, Weaver. . ' .

PRESIDENT: ,

l For what purpo:e does Senator Harris arise? '

SENATOR RARRIS:''

Ij

'

! I want to J us t resEate for the benefit of the body here, and cer-l . :

tainly this Senator will extend every courtesy to every melber, b ut

l partfcularly to the President Pro Tem. It *as uy understandiag that

we vould proceed at the conclusion of this roll call to a consideration

I of my motfon to table anendment nu/ber one to House Bill 3636. It doesi ,( seem to me that we should dispose of that course of action and then,

if the other side wants to caucus that's j us t fine. I'm prepared to be

as understandingy cooperative, and helpfulz to proceed to the business? . .'' ' '. ' . àt hand' as artyone cari poss I.b ly be . ... . '' . . ' ' '1 -l - vassznEuz: 'l

on that question the yeas are 23 the nays are 27. The motioa

l having failed to receive the necessary two-thirds malority, tt is de-: '.

' clared defeated. Senator Partee is recognized.

SENATOR PARTEE: : .

Now Ifm going to ask for a thirty minute caucus. I'm trying to

' ' structure something whereby we can settle tbis issue. I wopld prefer

. 2 . ' . . . . '. ''''' ', '' 'i ' Ehat. we would have a caueus at a time when it occurs to me it will be

most meaningfut rather than a.t a time that it might occur to someoae

else *ho is not a melber of that caucus When it Would be most me4ning- . .

ful. I'm asking ghirty minute recess for caucus . '

' PRESIDENT: ' ' ' ' ': . . . t:-. '. .

' ' Senate stands in recess for thirty minutes. ' '

RRCESS ' . . . ' ' '' '

-250- ' . .

': ' ' . . ' '. '. . . . . ... ; . . .

' . 1!PRESIDENT: I

- - .. Senate vi11 come to order. The-e.ouestion? Senator Harris' !

is recoznized. The motion to cut off debate was made. You weré going

Itop..and was s ustained. Do you wish to renec your motioa to 1ay on1 '

' the table or do Ve vote on the amendment directly. . .. . ISENATOR HARRIS:

' ' I could prefery since the motion to table is not debatable, to 'î . .

at least limit it to that restriction, subject to the the probleas ofj 'l the chair, and table amèndment nus: er one to House Bill 3636'.t . .:

' Motion to 1ay on the tab le amendment number one. Senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

i I've had a motion to adlourn up there for as soon as it was.1 lù feasible to entertafn tt. It's been therc for quite some time. I

think there *as beea interveaing business and the motion is to adjourn 1I' uatil 9 a-m. on November the 13th. I now move that we adjourn. Nine./ . 1:' '

. 'r : . ' .j. PRESIDEN . . . . .J ' '1 - well. senator Harrts. . - 1f

ISENATOR HARRIS:

i .' I would observe that you have establfshed earlier this evening

that, in fact, fntervening b usiness has not transpired since the dis-

position of Senator Donnewaldês motion, aad that as a courtesy always

extended to the Presideat Pro Tem who requested a caucus, that we are j' . j' ' i l at tbe point where 5.re disposed of Senato'r Donnewald's motion. '

now prec s.e y 1' . There has 'not. been intervening b usiné:s qnd that . .thç lnotion béf ore '.thé ' ' .

body at this time that can be acted upon is my motfoa to tab 1e.

. . PRESIDENT: ' '

Well, I thfnk Lechnically thère has been intervening b usiness.' '

. Xow fh@ Chair is aot frapkly, gofng to entgrtain the' motfôn 6o adjourn' '' ' ime there's two minute of int.ervening b usiness.. every t . .

' . l' SENATOR IIARRIS : ' . .

' - .

' ' uelt Mrsprektdent. Then I.w ans to state categorically, that on. ' . .

. . . . @

'

. ..

' . . '. ' . ' . .. -251..- . ''

. . . . . . . J: . . . . , . .. . . '

- .s

. * '' '

'1 . I

I

the secoad motion to adloura that we used up time. There was some I' rqasonable , 's'ubjective problem f or you, but I now declare , Mr. President ,

i'hat you are participating in tbe effective operation of this filib uster;

and you have that power and I donet deny ts or take avay from it, I J us t

tdentify it.

PRESIDENT:

Well the Ch air is going to abide by the rules and there is a cer-

tain amouat of leniency that is given to the Chair. Senator Harris ' .

'

fs correct. I will, on'this occasion, recognize the motion to adlourn.

I'm not sayiag how often I Will recognize that. Motion is to adjourn.

The Secretary will call the roll. Senator Rorsley. Eor uhat purpose

does Senator Horsley arise?

SENATOR HORSLEY:

I'd like to inquire. I didn't hear the motion. What was the

motion?

PRESIDENT:

' ' Motion îs to adloura. Unttl 9 o'clock in the moraing. . ; '

SENATOR HORSLEY: .

No No. I didn't hear that- Thatês what i wondered. Your

motion, as I heard it> was adjourn and somebody's added until 9 o'clock

in the morning.

PRESIDENT:

The motion was to adlourn until 9 a.m. and someoae added until' . 10:Q0 a.m., b ut the sponsor of the motion said 9 a-m.' and he's given

. ' . ' '' - ' : '. . tt t.o the Chair i.tz wrltfrtg'. 'Sekretaz'y will call. the . r6ll. .. ' . ' . ' '

SECRETARY:

' Arrington: .Baltz, Berningz Bidcilly Brucey Carpentier, Carroll, ,. . . , , . .l . .

cjt 'er'l'y . . . .

. . ' ' . ,' .

. ' ? PRESIDFJIT : . . . . . . . '

. Senator Cherry.

' SENATOR CHERRY : .' ' . . . . '' ' ' ' '

' tion to adj ouzm Mr. President and mecoers' of tlaet)n the prevtokus mo ,

. .n52- . . .

, . . . : .

'

. . .. ' ; ' . . ' '

l . '' ht . ' :.

Senate, I said I was h ungry and I said I was tired. The hour is now

eleven twenty ffve and I thtnk chen I 1as t made that statement it was

ppproxtmately nine ftfteen. I want the cepbers of the Senate to

knoe that I am more huagry and more tired th an I vas before: and it iI

would seem to me that that physical condition applies to every mecber. .'

. . : . . : ... . . q e ' ' :' . '. . . . . . . : . ... j ! ; . . . . .of the Senate, and senator Saperstefn advises me that she h as not on #

I. become .more tired and more h ungry, b ut she has deteriorated and I !

don't know how we can be so cruel as to 1et the only lady of this Senate

be in that kind of a condition. I think it's cruel and inh uman that we

' have to stay here and argue the merfts of the kind of a diatribe that

is contained in this bill without tbe amendment that's offered by

' Senator Partee. I think it's time we came to our senses. I think

ttîs time that we adjourned to a reasonable hour tomorrow morning at

10 o'clock, which is the motion, so that we can go and get some food

and tbat 1, a Senator of the State of Illinois, would not be required l

to eat a ten cent package of corn crunch in order to satiate my appetite:

It's almost al1 gone and I'm about to send the page after another ten. : . . '

cent package of corn cruncb. I resent this invasion upon my physical

condition which is not being deteriorated, b ut rather exhausted. I

' think this is cruel p unishment to invoke upon any member of this body

vho has tried to work hard and diligently in his effort to get for the

people of the State of Illinois the kind of thing they voted for in

the Constitution Which Was JUS t adopted. I think We Ought to reexamine I

' . Qur posittons and analyze thep and come tq the qonclusion that at

.'

' ' Z . qleven tbirty at aiqht, aftqr meeting until ppprpximately ten ofçlock .. . . ' . n . - .

. ' ' ' '. ' ' .

' last night: were we would have we continued fùrther had not a motion been

made by Senator Merritt calltng a quorum of the Executive Committee

that has a melbership of approxfmately twenty three members when seven

mqabers were exhausted not qt the hour of eleven.twenty or twenty five

as lt is no'w, bùt rather at nine thtrty decause we bad not had dinner

up to that hour. I don't think thè people of our state w ant us to cop-

. tinue thts kind of a conditioa: and so .1 vo uld vote yes on the motioa

-253- .

. '

. .) . .

l '

to adloura, Mr. President. Thank you for the time. . I

SECRETARY: '

f ... Chev, Clarkey Collins, Coulsonz Course: Davidsony Donaéwald,Dougherty...

, !I

PRESIDENT: ' .. . . t . . t' : . 7 . , . . ' . . .1 : . ' .

. l . ' 'Senator Dougherty.

'

SENATOR DOPGHERTY: '

I...In regardiag this motion to adlourn: I share Senator Cherryês

conce rn for the mepbership because of the fact that I have been j us t

thtnkiag forvard to the time that I geaerally consume in Jogging fn

order to achieve the exercise that I need, but I am quite sure that the

younger members of the Seaate do not share my enthusiasm for athletic !

endeavors; however: I do believe that they are entitled to some relief

froz the rigors of this day. I vas with Senator Cherry last night,

early this morning I was with Senator Harris: and I'm here with you

t/nfght. And 1...M7 conce rny thoughy however, is for the health and

welfare of a11 of the pecbers of tlae body.. As I leave herey l intend : '

to jogs do a little jogging. I have my shoes with mey if you will, !

and therefore, I am going to vote to s us tain thfs motion to adjourn

in the interest of the health of my colleagues. I kote aye. j

SECRETARY:!

...Egan... . .

PRESIDEKT: .

Senator Egan. - .

SENATOR EGAN : ' ' . . '. ' .

Mr. President and merb ers of the Seaate. on this motion to ad-

Journ. let' me ask if you'll 1 us t sit back in your chairsa closc vour .. . ' ' ' ''

'

eyesy and contemplate a nice, hot bath, a clean pair of paJ amas, and. . . a war'm bed. consider that . làdv artd gentleman ,. foze d tts't about two and'

a half more minutes and I think thpt youîll unanimously unite and vo te

. aye on the motion to adjourn.

- P RES IDEIW : ' .' ' ' J denato J Egan votes ay e . ' .

. ' -. 2 5 /4 . ' . .. . . -5 . ; .

. * + . . . . . ' . :

SENATOR Eczx: ' 11 w te aye . .

SECRETARY:

.. .Fawe11, Gflbert, Graham... I

PRESIDENT: . ' . I. s . . ' . . . . . ' ' . . . .. . k . . ., . . L &r .'

' senator Graham.1

SENATOR GRàHAM: .'

. i1 w ant to say one thtng to those poor people who've been standing

Iup a1l night and raisina a11 this' fuss. I've been sitting dovn. I

don't need my cane anyuorey if they want to borrow it 1:11 loaa it to ithem and z vote no. .

'

jSECRETARY: .

II

...Groen... 'IIPRESIDENT:

Senator Groen. I

SENATOR GROEN: ' 'I

' ..

'

I j ust yant .to comment that 1 have aever seen so many feople 'J' ' . . . . . .' j

profess to be hungry who are tryiag so hard to séay avay from food.lAnother observation Ifd like to make; your stomachs may be empty, b ut

your lungs are sure full of hot air. I vote no. .

SECRETARY : I

.,.Ha11, Harris, Horsley, Hynes... ;. - IPRESIDENT:

. ' Senator Eyaes. '

. ' - SENATOR HYNES : ' ' . . . ' ' ' ' '... .*..' '

. . . . . . : , z , :. .

Mr. President, memb ers of the Senate. I had hoped that when we

took a break a short while ago for a caucus that reason would prevail .

. and that we would have a shance to exanlne some of the questions that

. .. have beea raised here this evenink, b ut apparently the time was not. ' . ..... . '

. sufficient and I say again that this legislatioa threatens the very E

' . viability of the cities and vtllages in thç StaLe of Zllinois. I .

think we need further ttme to consider thts proposed amendment. I ' .

. : . . -2!5-

. . . . . ' ' ' +4. . ' ' + ' ' . '

think that an adjournment at this moment would be ve ry appropriate.lI would suggest that you reconsider your positions aad vote aye on1

this motion. I vote aye. 1

SECRETARY:

.. .Johns, Kn uepfer, Kauppel...

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

Mr. Presideat...

PRESIDENT:

! senator Kn uppel.'

y SENATOR KNUPPEL:

7 I made this motion, as you know. Ifve been here a11 evening and

Bob may have been contemp lating a nice, warn bath in a...in some kind

of, of anti-..or wtthout detergent soap, but Ieve been sitting heretI

' l thinklng ab out nice, quiet apartment with carpeting about so deep,1 p

' candlelight, nice meal, steak about that thick with b zced potatoy

sour cream, some nice dessert someone moving about in the roon q uietly:

I. i lay my head b ack rest f 21ly y you know . .1 think that e d do ''a .lot .to belp

l the condition of my health that I was talking avout later or earlier.l .l

I had to leave off there a bit aqo because it was limited to three' g 'minutes; b ut when I came b àck from the Marinè Coyps and fully recoveredl

J from Dingue Fevery they discovered I had impacted wisdom teeth. I w as

broke then, and I couldn't afford to go to a regular dentist,

went to hirquette Pniversity Sùhool of Dentistry and they removed those

4 impacted wisdom teetb. My healïh continued to deteriorate. I got' . ' married and that made tt .worse .. ' As 'riua..wqnt. on .. why Ay.hair started . .

à1 to put in 9 stràight years, not missing afalling out; b ut I was a e

day, getting to the office on time,--6:00 o'clock in the morningz

like I said. Worked a11 day, including Ch ristmas and New Years. Shen

fipally in 1963, I .got a catch iq my backe Tbey tpok me .to the.hos-! . .. ' . . . . . ' '

pital oue morning about 4:00 otclock-' That': what you geé for fast

' living. I vas in the hospttal for a whole week. I began to realize

h lz t ' I vras coming apart at the seap-s'. .' tt en t a. . :

. ..z,6.

! . . .. ' rj . .: . t a ' ; .

'

jj . 'l ' . ' -

PRESIDENT: .

The Sedator will conclude his remarks. . .

SENATOR KNUPPEL: ' '

...and as I say...We11, I've got to fill this al1 in a little

late-rv -bvut my health has .continued to detertorate and I feel terr'ib le - --. - - . 1 . . . . . .

. L . ' ' :. . . : . . .tonight Particul arly since 11:00 o'clock: and I've been thinking' '

about al1 these other.nice things and sp I vote aye.

SECRETARY:

...Kosinski, Kusibab , Latberowy Laughlina Lyons. McBroom, Mccarthy...

PRESIDENT:

Seaator Mccarthy.

SENATOR MCCARTHY: .

Yesy Mr. President. Members of the body. We are here through no

fault of our own ualess it can be said that the interests of the narrowz

special groups deserve more consideration'than that of the broad,

general groups that we represent; b ut there is notiing improper about

.. debatinzvand tryinzbto maintain a' position. Ihe'rules provide ity thç . i

.. !Constitution provides it, b ut there comes a limit as to hov long !

Ispecial interest legislation should keep us in se'ssion. The motion I

to adjourn is now in order because we will come b ack at 9:00 a.m. in

the morning; and I've been informed, as a matter of h umor, that the :

Sçcretary of State's office, Index Department will be open tomorrow

at 8:45 with nominating petitions for the office of State Senator in ' I

. a packet. There will also be withdrgwal slips in that same 'packet.

. . ' I vo t e . ay e. . . ' . . .

' SECRETARY: ' .

. ...Merritt, Mi tchler, Mohr, Neistein, Newhouse, Nihilly OîBrien,

Ozingay Palmçry Partee, Rock...

.. ' .

. . . PRESIDENT; ' . ' . . . . ' . ..

SENATOR PARTEE : ''

Let m'e j us t say ftrst of al1 that I appreciated the courtesy oe. . ' . . .

. . . . . ' -2 5 7+ . . ' '

. . ' : ' . .. : . . ' .

the recess which has always been a courtesy that's been givea here.

And I vant you to know that I tried during that period to effect within

my ranks an accommodatton to something tbat would be meaningful to the

solution of this problem. But despite my rather valiant efforts and

-- -.- . . - W-SiWCW G--WUVCW Q .GII W #Zrt: t2O do S O , 11 Iml) 1RZ$ IIIIV I.V XCPOVV VO VOt1 ,. . - - ' ..: ' - :' f . - . . - . ' .

that our situation seems to be the same. Nou I am conce rned, and

questioa in terms of this motion to adjourn: that if.we proceed and

continue in this veia, weîre going to run into another legislative day.

I don't know what this will mean'to us in terms of.constftutionality on

those measures on which We will address ourselves on Saturday: Noveab er/

13th. certainly don't want to jeopardize any of the other legislationl/

that has to be passed here tomorrow. There are some rather grave

matters and concerns. There are conference reports to be accepted and

adopted to some singul arly important legislation. l've j us t been

tryiag to read, during a11 of this deb ate, the conference report on the

Implied Conse'nt Bill: and it isn't easy to do it while your attention

is sometimes momentarily diverted'to other matters tbat'are taking

place simultaneous 1y. There are other matters t'hat relate to the very

method in whi ch we are going to ru1 next year--the time perfods in-

volved: the staggering of the terms , and diverse and s undry other'

matters to whi ch we must address ourselves tomorrow. I am actually

coacerned, and Iîm sure you share that concerna about what is going

to happen here tomorrow, the 13th9 and for that reason, Iêm going to

vote aye oa this motion to adjourn.because I really think it is the

. où'ly sensible: prqctical, 'meaningful thiag. to do. I.v'ot: aye.

SECRETARY:'

. . .Rock , Romano & Ros ander , Sapers kein , Sévickas Smith . . .?

PRESIDENT :

. . 'Senatb r SavikzkM . '

. dENATOR sAvlcKàs:

Senator Coulson asked me to t#lk to you in Lithuani an. He thought

uaybe I could persuade some of the fellows on the other side. But I

. ..-258-

JR KU R W M WX : ' 'OX A V = DVK r.O : * >7< '

I

agree with Senator Knuppel here. We bave been treating ourselves ill, .i

' our hea1th has been' Teeedinga and I voùld at Lhis time asky if h

Seaatox Knuppel would yield to a question. .. . :

PRESIDENT:' j

î , . , Senytoç Savickys has the floor.. . .

' tENMGR SAVICK:S : ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' :.

'

. jJohn, b ow do you feel now? I

lPRESIDENT:

:t seaator Knuppel. :l$

l .. ILSENAIOR KNEPPEL:

ITerrible! '

PRESIDENT:

Seaator Savi ckas, how do you vote:l!î ;ENATI)R SAVICK.AS : !1

p

THen I will vote yes to adjourn toaight.

/ . . . .t .' ...Sppet, Sours. Swinarski, Vadalabene, Walkery Ne#ver. . . . .

j - P RESIDENT: . .Seaator Carrolt. '

: . . .' SENATOR CARROLL: . I

: Hov am I recorded Mr. PresidenL:>

PRES IDENT :

You are not.

SENM OR CARROLL : . .

: . 'We11x I ' d 1 tls t like to say tllat wlkile Nour great conf érence ...:u ' '. . .

àoiag oa for the caucus which you took half an hour or wh atever it was

fors I cook t*e time to go out aad have a little bite to eat. Andy'

y done you' probab ly could h aveof course , that , ha4 you gerttlemert rk t ,

. ', dona the saMe thing. But aoW I feel fine and if you lant to stdy a11 .

, . .. . . . . . .

: ' * . . .aight it's real good wtth me; and 1 thiak this deb ate on this is'sue '

. >

'

.

' bas goae on long enough knd Itd like to vote no on the motion to ad-' ' becaae I thtnk you owe tt to yoùr coastttùeuts to' stay ùere andjourn

. '

.' 2 5 9 .- ' .

, * ..

and settte tbis argument tonight. '

PRESIDENT: '

J You are not recorded, Senator. 'SENATOR HORSLEY: I

I vant to be recorded no. '

PRESIDENT: I

0n...For what Purpose does Senator Rock arisc?

SENATOR ROCK:

Mr. President, I...How am 1 recorded:

PRESIDENT:

You are not.

SENATOR ROCK:

Welly Mr. President, I'd like to be recorded, b ut again: as a '

point of inq ui ry prior to casting a vote on a motioa to adjourn: I#d

like to question or pose a hypothetical to the Chair under Rule 46.

Nov it seeps to me, we b rought this up before, and it seems to me that

' the question ts no lonzer uader deb ate. And ft says in Rule 46. MA

motfoa to comnit or recommït, until it is decidid. shall preclude a11

anendments.'' Now I suggest to the chair that un êer 46 the motion to '' h é tive committee should be prior to an# dlscusstonrecoxmit to t e xecu

I

of the adoptfon of the amendment. Now that questfon was raised twfce 1i

before and 1: to date: have not received a rulingy so let's put in

hypothetical...can I get a tentative ruling from the Chair?

' PRESIDENT: ' . . '

. ' ' .We1l i't depends op wtïqt'' s consi dered the' main ques tion ' and tie . '.

Chair is gofng to...If L may respond: first, to Senator'Rocko..The

.' Ch4ir is going to rule that wefre going to have to move. The aext' motion that's going to be recognized will be the motion of Senator

. . ' . . ' t. . ' ' .e . Harr s . . . . - : . . . . ' . . . .

S ATOR R0 CK:. . . . . . . j

' ' ' ' Aad that motion is to 1ay upon the table? .

PRESIDENT: ' ' . '

. ' .

' Ihat is corre ct . ..

' -76n- .

. ! . . . ,1 . . .'

. . .l

SENATOR RQCK:

Aad under Rule 45...it...we11...

PRESIDENT: .

This ts...It is not germane.p.He is raising a parliamentary in-

- qttiry-anrl hn -hx-zs-the -right to do-that . . '

SENATOR RO(2(: 1

Well, I1d like to...I'd like to be...I'd lfke to be recorded aye

on this motion to adjourn, Mr. Presideat, and I'd also like to say

that if youbre going to rule that Senator Harris motion to 1ie upon'

the table. under Rule 45, h as precedence. or precedence, there ts one

directly above that, and I would wish to mnke that motion at this time.

PRESIDENT:'

Jus t...Yes.

SENAIOR BALTZ:

If he wants to make a parliamentary inquiry, he can make it any

time, not during a roll call for adjournmeat. You rule whether it's

germane to his vote on adjournment or not. I'd like to have your1 4 vx rp * 'Vkl>. .uka.b * .

P RES 11 DEIC : *

Ee...We are now on the motion to adlourn. No other motion takes

precedence over that. 0n that question to adjourn- -How is Senator Baltz

recorded? You are not. '

SENATOR BALTZ:

. ' # . . ' ' . '

I d like to explain my voig. You may sit down, ,&enator Rock. 1, .

. ' . . too. like Senator Partee, wàs interested in trying to effect some con-

sensus about W'hat we wer'e doing here t ontght knowxng that we were

going to come back and treat a motion to adjourn. And as I summe d it

up tn my own mind: I kneu that we were either going to try and force'

. @ vote on the Hoae Rule Amendment'that 'the bpmocrat'side'of.àhe aisles.' . . . '

Kere trying to put op for Chicago and 57 other citfès that would in

effect preempt Lhe traditional power of the state to license prcfession-' . . .$ ;

. a1s : doctors y dentis ts , optometris ts , ophthalmologists , architeczs ,

. . . -261- . .

': . . *

*

. !

. Imény others; and I felt that the position of the two polttical i

t . iparties, wtth the many moti:ns that have been made either on ' i

amendments or the repeated motion for adlournment: had been well

. eatablished. I was also curious to wondering why the galleries

I y '. wereq tfillqd with local people frpm.springfteld tp see.the monkey . . ' .: : . . . ' . ' . . ; . % . .' cage in operation, or more importantly, it appeared in my mind that

the galleries ought to have been filled with the many professionals that!l would be adversely affected by this

. I was thinktng of an incident

j where aa o1d legislator a friend of mïne from Chicago: a&i . ..

Democrat, <as in an accident tn Joliet aad was hospitalized in the

hospital in Joliet and had his Chicago doctor come down in consultation

with the local doctors to see that he got the best care possible during

' his early days of agony. His Chicago doctor uas so faithful that hei!1 Jame to Joliet once eve ry day for the first week and once every other( ,

day for the next >;o weeks of confinement. Under the type of Act that

. the Democrat side of the aisle ts attempting to put upon the pro-' .1 .

; fesstonals of this State, this would not be possib le because the; . '

' Chïcago doctor vould not be pe rmltted to practic'e in Jollet because hel1

didn't have a Joliet license or vice versa. I coul dntt be treated by

; ' .' a Joliet doctor in St. Lukeês Presbyterian. So I#m wondering What

l wefre trying to achieve. I think that we h ave made an achievement

and in attempting to decide my vote...

PMSIDENT :

: . The Senator will. cohclude his' remarks. ' . , ,. ' ' '

' ' ' SENATOR àXL'I'Z : ' ' ' . ''.' . .

...in attempting to decide my vote I am attempting to try and .

' decide what the two politfcal parties are tryiag to do. . I think the .

Rep ublfcan sfde is trying to preàerve Lhe prefessionalism by the '

State pf.lllisois and' the Democrat side is trying 'to fragment it by .'. ' . . -'' '

. ' ' ' . ' . . '. . ' . .

local ltcensina. So. therefore, I vote no on the motion to adjourn. . '. ' '''' '' .- . .

PRESIDENT : 6

. On that question the yeàs are 24, the nays are. 27% The noti'on. ' . ' * '

. . . . . . .z6z-

' ' . ' ' -

' T:e motion to adjoura is defeated. senator Harrts is recogaize'd for

. '

jthe motioa to lay 8n the table. For what purpose does Senator Rpck

rise: lal

SFNATOR ROCK;' I

t' Mr. President, members of the Senate. I invoke' Rule 45 on a motion ;! .k v . ' ' ' ' . .. . . . . . 'k . ' ' J . .. . . . k) .. . . . . . . : ' . . . .'. . . . . ; . . ' r . . . ' ' '

: ' . l ' * ' ' ' 3 ' ' '' . ' . ' ' ' '' ' '' . ' '' ' ' .

'. that àeeps to takè predededcé, aad that is to question the presence of '

a quorum.

PRESIDENT:

t The preseace of a quorum does take precedence over the question to1

i c. 1ay on the table. The sec.o.except...This is not a motion. It is a

questtoa of the presence of...It is a point of order. Tbe Secretary

will ca11...ca11 the roll. Senator Sours.

SENATOR SOPRS:

We don't want a roll call. It's ob vi ous Keeve got a quorum. By/Iwhose authority is any roll call being taken?

PRESIDENT: .

j .' The Chair rules that the question of a quqrum is in order, and theI . .j

' .

Secretary will call the rell. -

SECRETARY:

f ' . Arringtoa, Baltz, Beràing, Bidwill, Bruce, carpentier, carrolls '

l . cherry, chew, clarke... .

PRESIDENT) '

Selator Clarke. '

' SENATOR CLARKE: - . S '

. .. Mr. Presidenty I!d like to 'ask a parliamentary inquiry before.l . .

' explain my vote. :-

PRESIDENT:

. you Icay.

. . SEXATOR CLARKE: . . .

' '' ' ' I'ou ar: q.uestioping' or you asking for a roll call' on a questicn '. . . . ' . .; ' . g . '. . . . x.

. t ,' * '' of a quùrum. ... ' I

. PRSS IDENT : . ' . .. ' : . '

' ' That fs correct. ' ' -

. ' ' .- 7 6 Q ' . ' ' . ' .

. N.s . . R

, '

jï .1. ' . -

' . j

SENITQR CLARKE:

ând it 'atpears that a few people have left these chambers. Nowa

kh-n do we come back under that type of recess? ':

PRESIDENT:

If a quorum ta not present, t:e Ch air will rule that the Senkte ..t ' . ' '

stands adlourned until 10:00 tomorrow morning.

SENATOR CLARKE:

Ulder whato..uader what...Mr. President: Would you sh ow me the

rule under which you can rule that?

. pREsInENT:

Rule number 1.

SENATOR CLARKE:

Pardon?

PRESIDENT:

Rule number 1.

SLNATOR CLARKE:

Jus t a minute. Okay. Alright, Mr. Pxesident. 1,11 take your

word for that. Ites in the Rule Book. IRd like to suggest, and if

the facts aren't clear, they certainly should be/ that you and the

other side are respoasible for tYe...I am explaining my vote and

everybody's been explaintng their vote tonight and I have that right.

PRESIDENT: ' ' . '

' . What is your point of order?

' ' SENAD R RoG i ' ' ' ' ' '' ' .

' H does #ne vbte'on whether or not one is prespnt? ' ' '. ' ' OW .

' . PRESIDENT: '

WYl1 ' '

SENATOR ROCK : . . ' '

. It'a à qéestion of physi.cal presence withia the b ar. '. . . ..- ' ' .

PRESIDES.T: .

' Iy I thfnk...l think that technically you may be correct, Senator -s.; -

' Rock, but we have always inte rp reted that rule llberally and aay Senator

. . 264- ' . ' ' '

. ' ' . . *' ; . '

' z L . 4 ' '

* J. . ' : . .

. 1

. i

who wishes to explatn hts vote may do so. Senator Clarke may continue.

' SENATOR CLARKE:

1I thtnk that the records should be perfectly clear who is running

acay from thetr responsibility in this lssemb 1yy who is scuttling the

. impprtant bflls that the Pro..Tew listed a fex minutes agoy who $s ..

ending this session in disgrace, and who had the pouer to do something

about it. I have said pre vious ly tbat the presiding officer is the

only one. Therc's no rule that we can put in the book that can ch ange

the direction of a f ilibus ter , azid this has been a 'filibus ter , if the

presidtng officer w ants it to go on. And it is obvious tbat this has

/gone on , so it 's obvious what that desire has been. Md I would jv:s t;suggest that kf we don't do anything more in this sessiony and itfs

very likely we gonît, vho is responsible. Because...

PRESIDENT:

The Senator will conclude his remarks.

SENATOR CLARKE:

1#11 conclude. 1he facts speak for themselves and I think this is

a disgraceful situatioa fxom the standpoint of the Chail as Yelt as

the rther aide of the aisle. And I vote no. ' . .

PRESIDENT: .

Senator Clarke is present. Senator Baltz is present.

. SECRETARY: .

....Col1ins.... ' . .

PRESIDENX: '' . '

' .'

' ' ' For What D urpose does Senator Walker arise: '

SENATOR WALKER: . .

Parliameatary inquiry. Rule 26, Absentees. Upon the call pf the

roll on any question, the names of the Senatork shall be called by the

. . ' .Secretary of the Senate and the absentees noted, after whi ch names of

. .-. ' .

such absentees shall oace again be called if such actfon be requested

' by the sponsor. Those absentees, for whopy in the opinion of the .

majority of the Senate...seaators'presenta ao excuse or insufficient' -265-

. . -. .m . .k - . .. r . . u . . . . .. .. . . . . . . . - . .

. . . ' o

. j 'excuse ts aade may be taken into custody as he or they appear o: he'

''' -' '' j. . '

jor they may be sent for and takea into cus tody and b rought forthwith

to thK Senate Chamber by the Sergeant of Arms of the Senate when so

ordered by the majority of the Senators present. Th at rule vas invoked1 .', on Lhe floor of the Hous e about a year aRo. and I think that same

rule should apply here. Now Iêd like to have an' interpretation of

. that rule there. And it states, those absentees for whomy in thel ,

optnioa of the majority of the Senators present.l ' PRESIDEXT: '

'

The...coatinue with the roll call.

l SECRETARX:

...Cou1son...

PRESIDEXT:(' 1 / wtll the- -rhe quescion has been raised by senator Rock. Let's...$ f

let's make determination of this question first. Proceed with the roll

call. The...We shall make a determination of the Rules following the/ . ./ roll call.

- SENATOR GILBERT: .

Rve rybody turn to Rule 1 and ryad ft carefully. Unless othe nzise

) ordered by ua animous consent o'r by majority vote of the Senators. . # '

$ present, the Senate shall regularly convene at 1Q:0D ogclock in the

. morning of each day except Sunday. The majority of .the Senators present,

Sir. Itfs aot tbe majority of those elected.

PkESIDENT: ' . , '

. . We. we first of a1l have to establish the quorum. then malorlty . . '

may determine the time in which we will adjoura to. éoatinue the roll

call. ' . . .

S ECRETARY : ' ' . ' ' '

' '...LOuiSOn ... . .

. Seaator Coulson. I' .

.266- . '

. : . ' .

. * .. ' ' . . .' ' '

ij ' 'l . . ..

. ' I

SENATQR COULSON:

1, I am iere, and I would ltke to make a motioa. Firsta I wouldj . '

'like to have the tapes of this session reflect as they undoub tedly 1*111, that within the last three minutes a roll call on another motion

. vaa taken gt which a great.many persons answexed vho are now hidtng in . .' . ' . . . . :. . . . , . . . . &

'

. . . . . . . :. . 2 . . . . 2 . . . . ? ' '

the carpets and in the moldtng where perhaps they are happier th an they'

are in places of di gatty. Ihe motton wqtc: I should ltue to make is

that we adjoura until 5 minutes after 12:00 tomorrow--in the momaing.

15 siautes from aow. '

PRESIDENT:

We are oa roll call and that motfon is not in order. Continue the

roll call.

SECRETARY:

Course, Davtdson: nonnelzald, Doughertyy Egan, Fawella Gilberta

Graham...'

kT: 'PRESIDE

Senator Craham.

SENATOR GRAHAM : '

. Mr. Presideat, before I 1et you know that I'm bere, I only have

one observation; that I am glad that I am :ot a candidate for Gove rnor

this year and have to face the professional people of this State after

the action taken.here tonight.

SECREIARX :'

. ..-Groe'n

, uatl, Harris, uorsley, uynes, Johnq, Knuepfer, Knuppel,

' ' ' Kosinsiix. Kusfb ab , Latherow, Laughliny Lyons, MeBroom, Mccarthy : Merritt,

>1i tchle r , Mohr . . . .

' PRESIDENT: . ' ' .'

senator ètttchler . .

' . SENATQR MITCELERC . . . ' '

. . .. .. . ' *

'

. .

. could rou explain to me exactly what the vote, tf it indicates

that only less th aa 30 votes, less than the malority are present?'. . ). . . . x . .

Jus t what- -ïoat'àtatu are ve in thent Before I cast my vote I'd like

. '

..z6 y-

. .. . ' * ; .. ' '

to know j us t what status are we in. Are we in limboî Does that mean

we're adjourned, orn.Whatls-.owhat...

PRESIDENT:

The only actton that-o.according to Robert's Rules of Order: tbe

only action that can legally be takeq in the abpqncq q/ : quoxum is: .... . . . . . . ; . ,

. . J ' . . e . .ffx the time to whi ch you adjourn.

SENATOR MITCHLER:

Anda Mr. President, who fixes that time?

PRESIDENT:

Unless the body fixes ft. the Rules state that we stand adjourned

until 10:00 in t:e moraing. Andaooyour motion was not...

lSENATOR MITCELER)

Now: Senator Coulson has made a motion that...

PRESIDENT:

That motioa was made durfng a roll call. That sotion is not in

order.

jENATOR MITCHLER:

Would it be my understanding, then Just so '1 knose in casting my

vote, that following the announcement of the rokl calt that you would

recogaize Senator Coulson for the' purpose of that motion?

PRESIDENI:

Well, we#re going to take one step at a time here. Contlnue the

rol'l 'call.'

SENATOR MITCHLER:

Well, I would 'like to know that and I'm inquiring of the Ck air.

If you'd prefer to avoid that call...

PRESIDENT:

I don V t have ariy ansuer f or #ou right now .

. SENATOR MITCHLER':'

v

'

'You ve always answerçd fairly

P RESIDENT:

You...senaeor Rorsley may be recorded present:

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SEXATOR MITCHLER:

- - Present. .' 1k i

' jMohr... . ' .j **>

. - ! ' . . . . . ' ' ' .A . . 1 . . . . , . '*'' .'' .PR'ES IDENTC. 'a ' . '.. : . . : , . .: . . . . u . : . . . . : .-t. ' . .:'. , ' . ; . .. . : ' J ' . . . . v .

. Senator...For what purpose does Senator Carpentier arise?t '

I arise to explain my vote. I did not vote because I understandt . .'

j that you have ruled that you vote present. You know, it's not an aye' or a nay. I've been dova here since 1941. I have never in my life

seea aaythtng like thiss and I have not missed a session since 1941.

And I'm saying to you, Mr. Presidenta and stnce I've been here since

l ' 1963 I have served under a Democrat presiding officer. I have neyeri :$ /1 ;seen motions being thrown out and I remerber distinctly in 1969

Sessioa, 1971 Session when we started our proceedings, we were told

' j . that we were going t.o go under your rules. And since thed youêre; right, because our Senate Rules and Robert's Rules of Order have been '

thrown out the window; and I want you to know that we ve got a 1ot ofI

road runds wefve got a 1ot of money tied up for the people of ther . :'

State of Illinois that we can lose and webre going to horse around and

act like this, then the responsfbility lies op the shoulders of the

Prestdent Pro Tem and the presiding offiqer of this body and I want to

. . be recorded present. .

SECRETARY : : ' ' .

' ..wNeistein, Xewhouse, Nihilly O'Brien, Ozinga, Palmer, Partee:

R k R Rosande? ''Saperstein' Savi ckas' Smith Soper Sours... .OC , Omanoy : , , y :

PRESIDENT: ' . .

Senator Sours. '

' ' SENàTOR so:Rs: = . . '. . . . . . . . .

. . ' . Qufte early ih fhe sesston, Mr. Pkesident and Senators, I tbiùé.. . . %

I sent up to you.o.èlr. President youVre not listeningo' '. ' '

. . :

' PRESIDENT: ' ' . .' ' ' s tor sours way proceed ' '. ena . .

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SENATOR SODRS : 4. . . qI'm addressing my commeats to you

, Mr. President. !

PRESIDENT: i

Senator Sours.1 ' ' i', . SENATOR SODRS : . .

. ' . : . ' . ' '' .

Early ia the session, Mr. President, I sent up to you a newspaper

1 account in whtch you stated pub licly that you would wield the gavel

farily. Now I find you in the vatchpocket of that very invidious

! ' 1 disappointed. I vote present.Chicago machfne, and I m terrib yl .

l 7.SECRETARY:

.o.swinarskia Vadalabene, Walker, Weaver.lPRESIDENT:

Just...âust a moment, Senator. Request for call of the absentees.1

l iIs in order.. The chair-- The chatr wtlz note tbe presence of any who! !

have aot answered the call. Request' for a call of the absentees.

SECRETARY: ' '

J 'j Arrington, Bruce, Cherry, Chew, Donnewald, Dougherty, Egan, Hall,

j - Hynes, Johns, Knuppel, Kosinski, Kusibab, Lyons, Mccarthyy Neistein,Nihi l1y Q ' B'rtea y Palmer s P artee , Romarto , Sapers tein , Saviqkas , Se th , .

. ; . 1f Soper, Sxinarski, Vadalabene. '

. iJ pRygypgyy:

Well, on that...on tbat question of a quorum, there are 29 people'

preseat. We do not have a quorum. The only motion that is now in .

' ' ' ' . ,

' order ts â motioh to ad1 oura. sow w: douxd.. .''.We may do qha't., 'senator

Coul:on. but it .is the 'think'inq of zbe Chair that if..-tet., let, let . .

the Chair 1 ust have a vord here.-that ff we...if we adlourn until

9.:0.0 or 10:00 in the moraiag that çool Heads may prevail. You h ave the .

right to make the motion to adjourn .uatil tuo after 12:00s and if '. you wish to persfst in that motion, you may. It is the.-'.We, we', at . .

- . th#t paint, can gp-through the same procedure. This is the .difficulty!. . ' . ' ' .

' '

kl senator and thd'- .For what purpose does Senator Rock arise? 4,. . fran y, , . .

' . mz 70.. . . . '

. . . : , . .

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S> ATQR ROCK : '

Well Mrt'president. members of the Senatea it seems to me that,

àssumn-ng we do adjourn, xhen we come b ack, whatever time that fs, the

first order of b uatness is to question the presence of a quorum.

We1ls..It seers to me...The Chair is j us t going to suggest that

we take a 5 minute recess s if I may...andoomlust a momentoe.lus t... '

Wefll stop...We'll...The Ch air isnêt going to lean on a technicality

of a past mfdnight thing nov. If I may talk to Senators Clarke and

Senator Coulson in my office for five minutes and then wedll come back

- fëmedfately. The.o.Theoo.senator Coulson. Senator Coulson is recog-

akoe'd for making a motion.

SENATOR COVLSON:

My motion is that we re...that we adjourn until five minutes N

after 12:00 on Friday the 13th...is it? Saturday the 13th and that the

presiding officer be directed to direct the State Police or other

persons to procure absentee merb ers sufficient to obtain a quorum.

PRESIDENT: .

. Well, tbe only motfon that's technically in order is the' part

about fixfng the time of adjournment. Now, motion is to adjburn

until five after twelve a.m. Al1 in favor signify by saying aye.

Coatrary minded. . The Senate stands adjourned until five after twelve.

Now, I would ask Senators Clarke and Coulson, if you will, to come to

. ' my office for 1 us t a few' min utes.. ,. '

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