ms. carrie chai (mba 11) - york university

In preparing for the Career in Finance Orientation Guide, each alumnus on the Focused Team contributed by either answering a few key questions or simply

telling his or her personal career story. Each of these stories contains insights and tips that are valuable to students starting their careers in Finance.

Ms. Carrie Chai (MBA ‘11) Director, Internal Ratings Management, Scotiabank 1. Why did I choose to pursue a career in finance?

My pre-MBA careers were in marketing & sales and general management. As I wanted to pursue an area different than my pre-MBA careers, finance became one of the few interesting areas I could identify. During my first year of the MBA, I had a few finance & accounting courses, which I found I quite enjoyed, so pursuing a career in finance was an easy decision. That being said, finance is a huge area and it was not that easy to land in a specific area in finance that I liked and that fit. I took as many finance-related courses as I could during the second MBA year and realized that finance jobs requiring strong analytical skills are a good fit for me.

2. How did I get my first job to start our career? Describe how that job was?

I got a part-time job then a full contract position with Scotiabank after my first MBA year through networking. It was a role in retail multicultural marketing and strategies, which is not the ideal position I was looking for at that time. I took the job with the intention of gaining entry to the finance industry and building networks.

After graduation from my MBA, the job market was tough just after the 2007-2009 financial crises. Proactive job research through CDC and networking with alumni and finance professionals in a variety of events and occasions provide me with a good base to assess where I fit, considering which jobs are available and the competition in the market. This assessment helps me to develop a practical job search strategy. I decided to apply to as many jobs available in the market which required analytical skills, without focusing only on the ideal jobs in my mind at that time. Luckily, I got quite a few interviews. For each interview, I did my homework not only by analyzing the job and its requirements, but also the bank and the people who would interview me, again through my network. Fortunately, I got a few interesting opportunities and I selected the Scotiabank GRM Rotation Program.

As an associate in the rotation program, I had the opportunities to work with four different teams in Hedge Fund Market Risk, Model Validation, Commercial Credit and Corporate Credit. Functions and jobs in each rotation were very different. It is both challenging and rewarding as I have to learn and perform quickly in each rotation. The program is a great opportunity to try different roles in finance, assess options and identify the best fit for me.

3. How did I progress to my current job? Describe how that current job is.

After the rotation program, I accepted the Senior Manager position with my current team, which builds credit risk rating models for the Bank’s wholesale portfolio. On this team, I am able to apply both business/credit knowledge and quantitative skills in the work and I do enjoy both. As the job requires expert knowledge of credit risk for different industries/geographies where the Bank has exposures as well as good quantitative modelling skills, I spent a lot of extra hours coming up the steep learning curves and delivering projects and models with high quality during my first year. I was promoted to a Director position within the team shortly after my second year.

I am currently in my second year as a Director. My team is responsible for building the credit rating models for the wholesale portfolio of the Bank and the new Allowance for Credit Loss Model under IFRS9. As a Director, I am not only responsible for the technical work and projects under the team’s mandate, but also people management, which is a new dimension.

4. How did our Schulich degree (and what courses) prepare us to have a good start in our first and subsequent jobs?

Courses I took in school set the foundation for my career in finance, which provides a good start to speed up my learning on the job. Courses I found useful include courses under the Financial Engineering Diploma program and the following general courses under the MBA:

FINE 6150 Advanced Corporate Finance

FINE 6600 Corporate Financial Analysis

FINE 6800 Options, Futures and Other Derivative Securities

FNSV 6700 Management of Risk in Canadian Financial Institutions

ACTG 6110 Intermediate Financial Accounting I

ACTG 6120 Intermediate Financial Accounting II

ECON 6210 Economic Forecasting & Analysis 5. How's the job like and what makes the job interesting? My job requires constant learning and entails the understanding of all the components of how a bank operates in the business of wholesale credit risk, from how the bank assesses credit risk at the individual borrower and portfolio levels all the way up to capital management. My day-to-day job involves evaluating and understanding credit risks of borrowers and industries through research and discussions with internal and external experts, developing good rating models for different segments (e.g., industry, geography), as well as communicating and presenting models to business users and external parties, such as auditors and regulators. In my view, an interesting career has the following features: (a) Constant learning – it is exciting to learn the dynamics of all the different industries (e.g., mining, oil

& gas, utilities), how their credit risks are assessed, and how we can model the assessment in the best way.

(b) A knowledgeable and creative team – it is critical to have a team with creative minds, which inspire each other with innovative ideas of modelling and a good understanding of the business world.

(c) A flexible and encouraging environment – it is essential to have a culture and supportive management to allow me and my team to explore new and better ideas and solutions as well as implement good ideas/solutions.

6. What knowledge, skill sets and personality are needed to be successful in your field?

Knowledge and skill sets required to perform well in credit risk modelling include:

Sound business/credit knowledge, including business analysis of an industry and a company as well as understanding of financial statements.

Understanding of practices and regulations about credit risk management.

Good statistical knowledge with strong capabilities in statistical analysis and problem solving. Key personality characteristics required to perform well include:

Creative and open-minded for new ideas and solutions.

Versatile and willing to learn both business knowledge and quantitative skills.

Good at communicating technical concepts to business users.

7. What are the key performance expectation and indicators? What is the career path and

progression? Performance expectation and indicators vary depending on of the level of your career path. At entry associate or manager level, you are expected to provide supportive analysis to seasoned senior managers and directors. That being said, a diligent and creative individual can excel quicker in the career path. At a senior manager level, you are expected to independently build a rating model or manage a project based on the knowledge and experience gained in the past. At a Director level, you are expected to be responsible for a few work streams and manage a team of people.

8. What do interviewers look for in potential candidates? Banks have many programs to hire fresh MBAs, such as the Scotiabank GRM Rotation Program. These programs aim to hire future leaders, different than a regular hiring during which banks look for people who can perform a certain work function immediately. Banks hire candidates who have demonstrated: (a) Leadership skills in school; (b) Excellent academic performance to demonstrate your ability to complete a project with high

quality; (c) Ability to learn quickly and perform well. 9. Latest developments that new candidates entering the field should be aware of? Credit risk modelling is not just modelling. Banks are looking for people who not only are good at quantitative and statistical modelling, but also have sound business credit knowledge. Candidates who have a skill mix of both business and quantitative knowledge are well positioned in many roles in finance.

Mr. Richard Digioacchino (MBA’ 03)

Vice President, Trading Floor Risk Management, Scotiabank

1. Why did we choose to pursue a career in finance?

I mostly stumbled into finance. As a commerce graduate who preferred quantitative subjects to soft skills, a bank was the logical place to start a career, or so I thought. From the perspective of an undergraduate with no connections, it seemed to be a good place to build a career and make some money. I did my MBA while at Scotiabank to bolster my resume. Courses that would be important for potential graduates to take are: investments and derivatives.

2. How did we get our first job to start our career? Describe how that job was.

I started as a summer student at Scotiabank during my undergrad. I went back full time after graduating. The job was a back-office position processing accounting and payments for derivative transactions. As the deliverables were time sensitive, I learned the importance of time management and multi-tasking.

3. How did we progress to our current job? Describe how that current job is.

I kept my head down and worked hard over the years. I was able to build a good reputation within the bank, which helped me move to different areas and take on increasingly more responsibility. I have found that this is the best way to progress in one’s career. Over-managing your career path will often lead to disappointment because opportunities cannot always be planned for.

My current job is very fast paced as it involves providing risk oversight over capital market businesses. Aside from product and market knowledge, the position requires significant decision-making, strategic influencing, communication and collaboration skills. Developing these soft skills is imperative for anyone looking to take on roles of responsibility.

When I am hiring new staff, the first criterion is that the candidate shows a strong positive personality and demonstrates leadership potential.

Ms. Valeriya Kolobashkina (MF ‘14) Manager, Exposure and Capital Analysis, Global Risk Management, Scotiabank

1. Why did we choose to pursue a career in finance?

I was lucky to choose my career in finance at a very young age and never looked back.

I always enjoyed solving problems and was good at math and engineering. In high school, I learned about

economic models and was fascinated by how math can be applied in the real world to describe and

forecast economic events, which prompted me to do my undergrad in Economics. During my undergrad,

I fell in love with courses in corporate finance, investments and risk management, and a career in finance

was an obvious and natural choice. During my school years, I learned about risk management and hedging

strategies and the ways in which they can be applied to change risk exposures of businesses to factors

such as exchange rates, interest rates, commodity prices, etc. I liked analyzing businesses and trying to

understand their potential risks and come up with a combination of financial instruments that could

optimally hedge those exposures to make the businesses more competitive. This is how I got interested

in risk management.

Moving to Canada, I wanted to continue my education in finance and joined the Master of Finance

program at Schulich. The program offered a great curriculum full of technical and, at the same time, very

practical courses in different areas of finance. During one year at Schulich, I learned about investment

banking, private equity, asset management, equity research, risk management, and many other fields, not

to mention how much I learned about the Toronto financial market and the whole culture of networking,

which was so new to me at the beginning. Although courses like Financial Risk Management, Fixed Income

and Derivatives were the most useful for my current job, understanding other areas definitely gave me a

great advantage when networking with other industry professionals and building strategic relationships.

2. How did we get our first job to start our career? Describe how that job was.

The main challenge after graduation was not to find an area I can be good in, but to choose a career I

would enjoy the most among the wide range of potential options. Being a quantitative person and a

controller at heart, I decided to start my career in risk management, which is a growing area that has

become a major focus of all financial institutions. I saw risk management as an area in which I could

leverage my skills and be the most competitive since I not only had a strong knowledge of financial

markets and products, but also understood the models behind them.

Realizing how competitive the Toronto job market is, I did a lot of research about various areas of risk

management, attended related networking events (held by PRIMIA and GARP), and browsed through a

lot of job descriptions trying to familiarize myself with the job functions and requirements. A job

opportunity came with an information session held by Scotiabank for the rotational program in risk

management, which sounded exactly like what I was looking for. I went to the event and had a few

engaging conversations with representatives from different risk management teams, which helped me

get selected for an interview. I think I got the job because I knew what I was getting into, was prepared

and passionate about the job, and did my best to be myself during the interview – confident, funny and

relaxed.

A rotational program involved three very different areas – from a project-based model development in

retail credit risk to more fast-pace stress testing and market risk. The main challenge was to learn quickly

and adapt to very different job functions and team dynamics as well as try to make a small contribution

during the short four months with the team. An obvious benefit of being a part of a rotational program

was a great exposure to various risk areas and an opportunity to meet a lot of people while establishing

my network at the bank.

3. How did we progress to our current job? Describe how that current job is.

My current job is in market risk in the Exposure and Capital Analysis group at Scotiabank, which was my

last rotation and a natural transition from the rotational program into a full-time role. I chose the job

because of how much exposure the job gives and a fantastic team environment, which encourages

professional growth and development. The job in market risk is very dynamic – it is often hard to get

things done because of the amount of information that flows through my inbox I have to keep up with.

My current role involves producing daily risk reports for Scotiabank’s trading business and analyzing what

is driving changes in risk exposure of specific business lines (such as equity, fixed income, foreign

exchange, etc.) and of the bank as a whole. The job requires understanding of the risk factors that the

bank is exposed to and assessing how the changes in the market data or trading positions affect the

potential losses that the bank could incur in case of adverse market movements.

To be good at this job, you need to understand financial markets and derivative products and be able to

think in terms of models. You also need to be good at multitasking and prioritizing and quickly adjust to

changing environment. You have to process and analyze large amounts of information and be able to get

insights. You need to have strong project coordination skills and work effectively in a team. Overall, it is a

great job with continuous learning, which helps me apply the technical skills and knowledge I acquired at

school and strengthen my communication and project management skills. It is also a great job in terms of

career development opportunities because of how much interaction it involves with other teams at the

bank, including sales & trading, trade-floor risk management, group treasury, auditors and regulators, and

information technology support teams.

Mr. Rick Kotick (MBA, ‘06) Senior Analyst, Competitive Intelligence, RBC Global Asset Management

1. Why did I choose to pursue a career in finance?

In high school and through my undergraduate degree, I was always most interested in learning about how businesses operate – what product or service they provide, how they make money from it and how they build their brand. As I progressed in my education, I became increasingly fascinated with how one values such companies and how investors could profit from the success of a good business. This naturally led to me wanting to learn more about the dynamics of the stock market.

Once I knew where my interests lay, I tried to ask myself honestly if I had the strengths and characteristics to pursue a career in finance. I asked teachers/professors and the parents of my friends who were already in the industry what skills were necessary to thrive. I was told that you needed to be objective, have an analytical mind and be a good communicator. A healthy dose of curiosity helps, too!

You don’t necessarily have to possess all of these skills right away and I know I didn’t. So, the courses I chose to take in my undergraduate and MBA programs were the ones that could complement my interests and teach me the skills that I was seeking. Some of my favourite Schulich courses included:

FINE 6200 – Investments

FINE 6100 – Financial Management

ORGS 5100 – Organizational Behaviour

MKTG 6300 – Service Marketing

FNSV 6970 – Competitive & Organizational Strategies for Financial Services Firms

2. How did I get my first job to start my career? Describe the job.

My first job out of undergrad was working as a stock broker’s assistant at CIBC Wood Gundy. The term

“stock broker” is a bit of a dinosaur term now as they are referred to as Investment Advisors these days.

Anyway, it was not a glorious job by any means. I was getting paid CAD 24,000/year (and no, it wasn’t that

long ago) and I was doing things such as photocopying, filing, matching trade tickets to trade confirmations

as well as filling out account setup forms and account transfer forms for my broker.

A friend of my older brother was a stock broker and, as his client list grew, he needed an assistant for the

administrative work. That’s how I got the interview and, with my undergrad in business, the broker

assumed I would pick things up quickly. I refer to that job as how I cut my teeth in the industry. It wasn’t

a dream job, but it was an absolutely great way to learn the ins and outs of the investment industry from

a broker/client perspective.

One thing I was told by family and friends was to ask a lot of questions. Be curious. People mostly enjoy

talking about themselves and I’ve found that they are usually open to answering any questions you have

as long as you are respectful of their time and let them know in advance what you want to talk about.

https://www.linkedin.com/title/senior-analyst%2C-competitive-intelligence?trk=mprofile_title

https://www.linkedin.com/company/862933?trk=prof-exp-company-name

I would set up meetings, coffee dates, information interviews, etc. and ask the most basic questions to

start. As my knowledge increased, I asked more advanced questions and always ended these meetings

with a thank you and an offer to be of help in any way possible. Meetings are a two-way street and you

have to give if you want to receive. People were generally very appreciative of this gesture and, not only

did I learn a lot, I slowly started to expand my network of colleagues and possible future mentors.


After spending a year as a broker’s assistant, I was given the opportunity to run my own book of client

business as a Financial Advisor with CIBC. I did that for five years before heading off to Schulich to pursue

my MBA full time. I knew that there was a wider world of finance that I wanted to become more familiar

with and I was confident that an MBA from Schulich would give me, not only the breadth of courses I was

looking for, but the opportunity to build on my knowledge base and work experience. I came to RBC Global

Asset Management (RBC GAM) in June 2009 after spending a few years doing consulting work in trade

finance.

RBC GAM is Canada’s biggest mutual fund company and, while it did some research on competitors as

part of its product development function, it did not have any resources dedicated to competitive

intelligence full-time. Once RBC GAM decided to create such a position, I was able to position my previous

work experience with clients, my Schulich education and my consulting experience as the perfect

combination for the role.

Today, I am the head of the competitive intelligence team at RBC GAM. My role includes:

Conducting research on competitor firms and products in the Canadian mutual fund and exchange-traded funds (ETF) industries.

Speaking at internal sales conferences and industry events on trends and flows in the investment funds industry.

Producing regular reports on a wide range of competitor activities.

Providing materials tailored to advisors and branch personnel to support sales efforts.

Coaching sales teams on the ever-changing landscape of investment products.

Our industry is so dynamic and it is true that the only constant is change. With change comes immense

opportunity and no two days are ever the same for me. My role gives me constant exposure to advisors

in client-facing roles, head office staff as well as those that support sales teams. My role has impact and

influence, which is extremely important to me. Timely competitive intelligence benefits:

RBC GAM – by providing insight on sales trends as we position ourselves to offer new and innovative

products.

Front-line sales staff – to retain and grow business from existing clients.

RBC clients – to build trust and confidence in their advisors.


A solid foundation in basic finance is a must. In addition, a CFA and/or an MBA are table stakes these days. Everyone has one or both. But when I look for candidates to add to our team, technical skills do not tell the whole story.

What is valued most in our industry is the ability to communicate effectively, both orally and in the written word. Can you synthesize complex information and communicate it in a simple way? Can you do so in a timely fashion? Can you speak persuasively, get people to buy into your ideas? Can you write concisely without unnecessary jargon?

If the answer is yes to these questions, you will find yourself way ahead of those candidates that rely solely on their technical skills. I believe that most people can be taught the technical stuff, but the softer skills are more difficult to master and more highly sought after by employers.

5. Latest developments that new candidates entering the field should be aware off?

If you are seriously considering a career in the asset management industry, you absolutely must stay on top of the latest developments. Our industry moves fast on a bad day, but we are going through a sea-change of events currently and any employer you speak to will be impressed if you understand:

The burgeoning popularity of ETFs. Why are they popular? How are they used in retail and institutional portfolios? What effect, if any, will this have on mutual fund sales? Where are the next opportunities for ETFs to penetrate?

Phase 2 of the Client Relationship Model (CRM2). What does the onset of CRM2 mean for the advisory business and how should advisors and clients adapt to this new reality? What can fund companies do take advantage of CRM2?

The continuing low interest rate environment? What does this mean for that segment of the population (retirees, pensioners) that relies on interest income? Are there alternatives and what are the risks of these alternatives?

Mr. Brent Millar (MBA, 2012) Analyst, Front Street Capital

1. How did we find out what our interests and strengths were and embark on the career path we have chosen?

Like most people in university, I was unsure of the career path that I wanted to take. I was always strong at math and science, so I did an undergraduate degree in Theoretical Physics. As I was finishing that degree, I was given an amazing opportunity to do a Master's degree in Economics, which I thought would be really interesting, and it was. While doing that degree, I was introduced to Financial Engineering while doing an assignment. I thought it was incredibly interesting, so I started looking at Financial Engineering programs. The program at Schulich looked engaging, especially since I could couple it with an MBA at the same time, so that is what I did. I was introduced to a Portfolio Manager at Front Street Capital that coincidentally was one of the first graduates of the Financial Engineering program at Schulich. He hired me as his intern for the summer and I was hired full time after I finished my degrees at Schulich.

2. How did we prepare ourselves to get the first job in our career journey?

One thing that I did that helped significantly in getting hired back full time was arrange my school schedule so that I had one day off every week for both semesters. On that day off, I continued working at Front Street Capital. I was prepared to work for free just to keep my foot in the door, but they ended up paying me anyways. I was able to continue to add some value and keep them familiar with me, and made a little bit of money in the process.


Financial Engineering has very specific courses, so I did not have a lot of latitude in terms of course selection. For the few electives that I did have, I ended up taking more advanced Financial Engineering courses. Those courses were some of the most interesting and useful courses in terms of understanding the bigger Financial Engineering picture.

4. How's the job like and what makes the job interesting?

Unfortunately, I don't do a lot of work anymore that puts my Financial Engineering background to good use and I miss that to some extent. Building models and testing them can be both the most frustrating and exciting things to do.


I think that a willingness to do more than the minimum requirements makes everyone better. The company clearly benefits, your colleagues benefit and you benefit because you are learning more in the process.

6. What are the key performance expectation and indicators?

Investment Management has one of the clearest metrics to judge performance: investment returns.

7. What is the career path and progression?

There are probably a few ways to do this but, in my case, it is currently:

Intern --> Investment Analyst --> Associate Portfolio Manager --> Portfolio Manager

8. What do interviewers look for in potential candidates?

CFA is clearly beneficial as you cannot be a Portfolio Manager without one.

Mr. Gregory Pau (BBA ’88, MBA, 89) Senior Vice President, Corporate Ratings, DBRS Limited 1. Why did I choose to pursue a career in finance?

Periodic evaluation of what subject matters I enjoy most and how effectively I learn and apply the knowledge in real life situation has been a very useful way of discovering my interests and strengths. Since high school, I have found myself attracted to and good at subject matters that involve logical thinking and strong casual relations (non-business subjects such as physics, computer science, meteorology and mathematics as well as business subjects such as finance, accounting, quantitative analysis and economics). When I started my undergraduate program, I was choosing between business or computer science (both of which I found interesting) but opted for business, a field that I thought would not be as exposed to technological advancement and obsolescence.

Among the core courses at Schulich’s BBA program, it became clear that I could do very well in subjects and concepts that are logical and have clear casual relationships between them, particularly in the areas of finance, accounting, economics and quantitative analysis. My reading speed and ability to connect and apply concepts in these subjects were way stronger than in other subjects such as marketing, organizational behaviour, strategy and policies). In some way, it was a process of elimination.

I chose finance because I find the subject interesting and this is a field where my strengths in logical thinking and numeric skills should help me compete well. Once I understood my strengths and interests, my objective in business education was to develop my competitive advantages so that I could perform to my strengths in my career.

2. How did I get my first job to start our career? Describe how that job was.

Getting an internship or co-op position in one of the focused areas that a student is interested in and feels he or she has good ability and aptitude to learn is often an important and useful step toward career orientation. That is what happened to me. In the summer before my final year in the BBA, I applied and was offered a summer internship position in the Credit Risk Management Department (CRMD) at Citibank, which was instrumental in my career orientation. Having completed an assigned project in developing a credit scoring model, I understood clearly that my relative strengths of being logical and numeric are particularly suited to a credit risk analytical position and career path. Citibank apparently was happy with the job I had done and I returned to the final year of the BBA with an offer from Citibank to return for a permanent management associate position in CRMD after graduation. Once the summer internship opportunity led me to understand that the credit risk management area suited my strengths and interests, my learning process in the remainder of my business education, subsequent on-the-job training and career progression have become focused. I essentially did not look back.

I understand that recovery in the job markets today is still fragile and that it may not be as easy to find similar summer internship opportunities. Proactive research on the job types available (through discussion with CDC and alumni in the targeted areas, networking with professionals in targeted areas and internet search), thorough research on potential employers and job descriptions as well as emphasizing relevant experience and education in resumes before applying are very important in distinguishing oneself from competing candidates.

In my first job, I would spend my days in CRMD providing financial analysis and modelling support and basic industry research to more seasoned credit analysts as well as performing relatively simple credit analyses. I also underwent regular training sessions on credit risk policies, analytical tools, banking products and practices from time to time.


My career progression in the credit risk profession involves continuous learning and applications on the job regarding credit risk issues in relation to different Banking Segments (e.g., corporate banking, investment banking, commercial banking and retail banking), Geographic Regions (e.g., region-specific credit issues, legal, accounting and regulatory frameworks) and Industry Segments. In each of these segments, I had to learn over time: (1) the various credit products and exposure involved, (2) key success factors affecting customers’ ability and willingness to honour their financial obligations and (3) how my firms’ interests and investments can be protected by contractual terms and under the relevant legal frameworks.

Through experience and knowledge acquired, I was able to progress when opportunities arose, advancing my career through different areas of credit risk profession (credit analysis, adjudication, risk management and ratings) and in different countries (Hong Kong, Singapore and Canada). While it was not in my plan, I realized in hindsight that my career moves (either transfer to a new location or advance to a new position) worked best when my current skills and knowledge allow me to perform approximately 70% of the requirements in the new job. This will give me the chance to immediately perform well in the new job while giving me time to learn the remaining 30%.

I am currently a Senior Vice President in Corporate Ratings at DBRS Limited. My job involves having primary analyst responsibility to ensure accurate credit ratings and publishing of high-quality rating reports for a portfolio of 15 to 20 credit ratings. In addition, I also make rating decisions as a member of rating committees, produce periodic analytical research, respond and clarify queries on rating approach by investors, involve in projects to improve overall rating and report quality as well as provide advice to management on major credit issues.


Courses I took at Schulich were by themselves not sufficient to place me in a position to immediately perform in my first permanent job at Citibank and there is much to be learned. Yet, they have been instrumental in providing me with the basic skills and foundation to facilitate the learning process and acquire the skills required to perform credit risk analysis. It is therefore important for graduates to retain the eagerness to learn on the job and try to learn effectively.

The courses I consider useful for providing a good foundation for learning on a credit-risk related job are:

MBA / MF BBA

FINE 6200: Investments FINE 3100: Financial Management

FINE 6150: Advanced Corporate Finance FINE 3200: Investments

FINE 6100: Financial Management FINE 4150: Advanced Corporate Finance

FINE 6400: International Financial Management FINE 4100: Financial Management

FINE 6600: Corporate Financial Analysis FINE 3810: Fixed Income Fundamentals

FINE 6800: Options, Futures and Other Derivatives Securities

FINE 4400: International Financial Management

FNSV 6700: Management of Risk in Canadian Financial Institutions

FINE 4700: Management of Canadian Financial Institutions

FNSV 6775: International Credit: Markets and Metrics

FINE 4800: Options, Futures and Other Derivatives Securities

ACTG 5100: Financial Accounting for Managers ACTG 2010/2011: Introduction to Financial Accounting I / II

ACTG 6110/6120: Intermediate Financial Accounting I / II

ACTG 3110/3120: Intermediate Financial Accounting I / II

ACTG 6130: Intermediate Financial Accounting for Finance Majors

ECON 2000: Applied Macroeconomics

ECON 6210: Economic Forecasting & Analysis ECON 3200: Economies of Business Management

MFIN 5100: Capital Markets ECON 3510: Applied International Economics

MFIN 5400: Fixed Income Securities ECON 4210: Economic Forecasting & Analysis

MFIN 5800: Financial Risk Management

5. How's the job like and what makes the job interesting?

The job requires evaluating and understanding risks, presenting my recommendation or decision to internal parties (like credit committee in banks) or external parties (like readers of rating reports) and proactively designing protection and mitigants for the risk exposure. It involves both internal research and discussion with borrowers’ management and other industry experts.

What makes a career in credit risk management and analysis interesting are:

(a) I never stop learning. Since every borrower is different (operating in different industries, countries and scale) and the risk exposure of each banking product is also different, there are always new things to learn through research on the internet and discussion with colleagues and professionals in the markets.

(b) The job involves continuous problem solving. Every credit analysis involves reviewing information, making an effort to understand where the risks are and deciding on if and how the risks should be taken and mitigated. Sometimes, I can compare my job to that of a detective and the satisfaction of solving the problem is great.

(c) Teamwork is essential. I need to keep a logical but open mind because, no matter how knowledgeable I am, other colleagues may have more updated information or alternative insights that could be important to the analysis.


Knowledge and skill sets required to perform well in credit risk management include:

Understanding of accounting principles as a user of financial statements.

Financial forecasting and modeling skills with particular focus on cash flow analysis.

Business analysis, including industry, company management and operations, competition, customers and enterprise risks.

Continuous updating on banking and financial products and the risks involved in them.

Understanding relevant contractual laws, insolvency and security enforcement regimes.

Key personality characteristics required to perform well include:

Very high level of professional integrity and ethics.

Logic, numeric knowledge and the ability to interpret economic reality from financial information.

Ability to scope and distinguish factors that are crucial versus those that are not.

Thoroughness; detail-oriented.

Inquisitive nature and willingness to go in depth to uncover the relevant issues.

Team player and ability to evaluate others’ input and make his/her own judgement.

7. What are the key performance expectation and indicators? What is the career path and progression?

Performance expectation and indicators vary depending on the experience and levels in one’s career path as well as the corporate culture of the employer. At entry level (e.g., first one to two years), an incumbent is expected to be diligent in providing support to more seasoned analysts and learn quickly about performing credit risk analysis. At mid-career level (e.g., years three to ten), an analyst could be expected to focus on analyzing companies in particular industry segments, countries or risks related to specific banking/financial products. In the process, the analyst could be asked to broaden the coverage (into more segments, countries or products) once he or she has gained proficiency and has shown performance in current coverage. At a more senior level (e.g., after ten years), the analyst could be given credit authority and become part of the credit adjudication process. At that level, it is possible that he or she could be responsible for a team of analysts and have more regular and direct working relations with other non-credit managers (e.g., business development, product specialists, internal operations etc.).


Employers of entry-level positions invest in entry-level employees by providing training and it takes some time before the employee will become fully functional; therefore, in my view, employers would prefer candidates who (1) have the attitude and foundation to learn efficiently and effectively, (2) have the intention of staying focused on performance after they become fully functional and (3) are capable of working effectively on teams and with other non-credit managers.

While networking could help a candidate in the vetting process, in most cases, he or she still has to apply for the job by sending in resumes. I believe that it is important for the candidate to review, in detail, the job description and highlight previous experiences and/or education (courses) that are relevant to the job in his/her resume. In addition, I would suggest that the candidate express his/her intention to remain focused on developing a career in the concerned field after he/she gains proficiency on the job in the resume or accompanying letter.

9. Latest developments that new candidates entering the field should be aware of?

Credit risk management is increasingly integrated with other risk management practices within a bank (e.g., market risk, operation risk, legal risk) under the Group Risk Management (GRM) department. Many banks have started graduate rotation programs within GRM in recent years. In addition, as financial products are becoming increasingly complex and involving multiple risk elements. Candidates looking for a credit risk management position will need to be familiar with the interaction between these various risk areas and how these risk-management practices interact with one another.

Mr. Raj Ray (MBA ‘09) Equity Analyst, National Bank of Canada

My foray into the world of finance was a process of self-discovery and realization of where my strengths and interests lay. It will not be wrong to admit that finance chose me rather than the other way around. Coming from an engineering background, numbers were not exactly my problem, but lack of exposure to other career options was. I worked for four years as a process engineer in India before deciding to do my MBA at the Schulich School of Business. Looking back, I think that was the one of the best decisions I ever made in my career, but the beginning was not always as smooth as I would have liked it to be.

Career counselors often say that, when entering an MBA program, it is good to have some idea about the future career one intends to pursue. While I think that this definitely is a sage advice, the fact is that some of us do not have adequate information and exposure to choose one or the other career options in the first term of the MBA. Now, the positive side of not knowing what career to pursue is that one ends up taking every course with an open mind, which is exactly what happened to me. I had some great professors for my organizational behaviour, marketing, strategy and operational management courses and I think they, too, have a significant contribution in my career progress to date, but the subjects that interested me the most were accounting, finance, economics and quantitative analysis. I realized that my skill level and aptitude were more suited toward courses that required logical thinking and numerical skills; that is also where I had a competitive advantage.

When choosing a career in finance, the second question that often befuddles students is, “What in finance?” because finance is a vast field. Fortunately for me, this was not a difficult decision to make as, along with my newfound interest in the world of finance, I also wanted to work closely with the mining and commodities industry as that was my expertise. Here, I want to make an important point about the significance of having a strategy to market oneself effectively, especially given the scores of finance professionals in Toronto. While having good grades in my finance courses along with completion of CFA Level II showed my aptitude and interest in finance to potential recruiters, I also strongly highlighted my industry knowledge of metals & mining in my job applications and during interviews. In equity research in particular, analysts tend to focus on one particular sector; therefore, showcasing one's knowledge and interest of a certain industry (e.g., consumer discretionary, health care, energy, automobiles and heavy industries, financial services or real estate) can also be a successful mantra for landing that first interview.

Oftentimes, I meet with current and potential students looking for career advice and the three things that I always stress on is that landing your first interview or job in finance (especially for students who do not come from a finance background) requires preparation, perseverance and patience. I graduated in the winter of 2008 in the midst of a global meltdown in financial markets and it took me a while to land my first job; however, it made me recognize two important things: (1) I needed extensive preparation so that, if an opportunity came calling, I did not miss it; and (2) I needed to cast my net wide enough so that I did not miss out on a potential opening. For the first point, I regularly kept abreast with events in my sector (i.e., metals & mining). I also prepared a few brief equity research reports and had a small virtual portfolio of metals & mining stocks that I tracked. Equipped with this, I would then reach out to every single equity research analyst in my sector. The one important aspect of potential job openings in capital markets in Canada, to my second point, is that a number of them do not get advertised in the right channels for a new student to be aware of them. Beyond the five big banks, there are a number of small boutique brokerages; therefore, just prepare a list of all the analysts who cover your preferred sector/industry and reach out for informational interviews. As I mentioned above, however, when you do get an opportunity

to meet someone, do not just show up with your resume. Bring your work along because that differentiates you from every other student who is looking for a job in equity research.

In terms of what recruiters are looking for when hiring potential candidates for an associate position in equity research, a strong interest and a passion for equity markets are key. In addition, to the point I made earlier, sound knowledge of a particular sector/industry is considered a positive; however, having a strong interest in stock markets and knowledge of a particular sector does not mean much if you are not able to back it up by demonstrable skills in accounting, financial modeling, valuation, writing and excel. I have been in interviews where interviewers require you to build a financial model for a hypothetical company within one hour.

The process and skill requirement that I described above also works for students looking for jobs in investment banking, although there tends to be not much of a sector/industry focus when recruiters are looking for potential candidates. Also, in terms of interest, students looking for more of a transactional experience (i.e., M&A, equity/debt financings etc.) tend to go into investment banking compared with equity research, which is more about making investment recommendations on specific stocks. Nevertheless, the skills are transferable and I have seen a number of finance professionals, including myself, make the switch from one to the other.

My first job in finance was in investment banking, working with the mining team at Dundee Capital Markets. While I liked the transactional aspect of investment banking, my decision to switch to equity research was based on a relatively better work-life balance and opportunity to do more in-depth work on the metals & mining sector and individual companies.

The organizational structure in equity research is much flatter and typically involves two main levels – Associate and Research Analyst. The Research Analyst is the senior person. The entry level is the Associate position, which typically requires one to write industry- and company-specific reports, build and maintain financial models, prepare marketing presentations for the Analyst and occasionally go on site visits if the Analyst is unable to go. A successful Associate in equity research needs to have tenacity, motivation and attention to detail because some of the work can be repetitive and involve long hours, especially during reporting season. The tenure of an Associate varies and career progression depends on: (1) the Associate’s skill level and (2) potential vacancies at the Analyst level. I worked as an Associate for 2.5 years (two years at a boutique investment firm and six months at National Bank Financial) before I got the opportunity to move to the next level because of the departure of the Analyst I was working with.

I am currently working as an Analyst, Metals & Mining at National Bank Financial. My job involves covering public companies within the metals & mining sector and making investment recommendations. Equity research is an important part of the brokerage business, working in conjunction with sales & trading to generate trading fees and commissions for the bank. One of my primary objectives is to generate executable investment and trading ideas and get institutional investors (e.g., asset management firms, pension funds, family office funds, etc.) to make their trades through the bank at which I work. In coming up with my investment ideas, I take input from a variety of online resources, interview company and industry sources, visit various mining operations around the world, pairing that with my own knowledge and understanding of the sector and companies.

As far as daily routine, when it is not reporting season, I usually get into the office around 6:45 AM and scour for any news stories that might affect my companies. The research, sales & trading morning meeting starts at 7:15 AM and I will make a brief (two-minute) comment in the meeting if there is any actionable trading idea involving my companies. After that, it is time to jump into longer-term projects, topical reports or initiation reports. Throughout the day, there are emails and phone calls and news events that

may require quick analysis and write-ups. I may be on the phone with a client who has a question about my model or wants to know about my recommendation on a company that we cover or our take on a recent news event. In addition, when any regulatory filings are released or there are company news releases, it may mean a formal note needs to be published and sent out to all clients, which means I need to draft that as well. If this happens after the market closes, it could mean a late night. On a normal day, though, I leave at about 6:00 PM.

During earnings season (two to three weeks every three months), the hours get longer, usually from 6:45AM to 10:00 PM, and may also involve work on the weekends. Each company reports and holds a conference call, so we update the models and write a report on each company.

Despite some degree of repetitiveness, what makes a career in equity research interesting is the opportunity to continue learning. Every company is different in certain aspects, although they might be mining the same commodity. I keep learning about new mining technologies, regulatory structures, environmental policies and, last but not the least, various political regimes, given that the companies I cover have assets in various continents around the world. In addition, I get to interact with top management of various companies on a regular basis, which gives me great insight into the different management styles and strategies. Occasionally, I also get to travel to exotic places around the world visiting different mines. In addition, equity research provides me with an excellent platform to establish my network across various disciplines in the metals & mining industry and geographies.

Mr. Andy Thi (BBA ‘12) Credit Analyst, Fixed Income, Foyston Gordon & Payne Inc. 1. Why did I choose to pursue a career in finance?

I pursued a career in finance as it was the field that best fit with my strengths and interests. I had originally enrolled in Schulich with the intention to specialize in finance; however, during the first two years of my BBA program, I kept an open mind and explored the different conventional business streams: finance, accounting, marketing and consulting. After taking the introductory courses, participating in different competitions and talking to upper years/alumni who worked in the different fields, I soon realized that a career in finance was the best fit for my personally. Reflecting on my strengths, I knew that I had a competitive advantage with my affinity for numbers and my analytical approach. I also found myself more interested in reading finance-related materials and news compared with the other streams – flipping through finance textbooks did not feel like a chore. As such, I felt that finding something that I excelled at and that I had a genuine interest in would put me in the best position to succeed in a professional career after graduating from Schulich.

2. How did I get my first job to start our career? Describe how that job was.

I was able to get a summer internship with a credit rating agency before my final year after applying for the position through a CDC posting. During the interview, I made sure that I was able to express to the interviewers my technical knowledge, prior experience (both extra-curricular and volunteer) and, more importantly, my enthusiasm to learn more about the niche credit rating industry. After successfully securing the position, I treated the four-month internship as an extended interview for a full-time offer and worked hard to build my reputation within the firm to obtain the full-time offer prior to returning for my final year of school.

I started my full-time career as a financial analyst and was responsible for assisting the lead analysts within the Energy team at DBRS with financial modelling, industry research and reviews of debt documents. I initially worked very closely with the different lead analysts during the credit rating process and eventually was able to progress into a lead analyst role myself. The job required a significant amount of due diligence work (readings and financial modelling) to come up with a rating recommendation to our internal rating committee. As analysts, we are then responsible for communicating the ratings and the supporting rationale to the investment community by writing research reports and participating in investor calls/meetings.


I am currently a credit analyst with a buy-side firm, focusing on fixed-income investments. After working at a rating agency for about four years, this current opportunity felt like a natural progression for my career. At the rating agency, I focused on learning and gaining as much experience as I could with corporate credit analysis. With a buy-side firm, I am now responsible for providing the portfolio manager(s) with my investment recommendations based on the credit analysis skills that I have developed over the years. In addition to the credit assessment, I now look at pricing, rates, and relative values as well to support my investment recommendation.

https://www.linkedin.com/title/credit-analyst%2C-fixed-income?trk=mprofile_title

4. How did our Schulich degree (and what courses) prepare us to have a good start in our first and

subsequent jobs?

The Schulich degree and courses provided me with the fundamentals for my career progression. From a knowledge basis, the finance, accounting and economic courses ensured that I knew at least the basics to get my foot in the door. More importantly, the student/alumni community at Schulich was the most beneficial for me. During the summer recruitment process, being able to lean on the upper-year students provided me with invaluable advice and preparation. What’s a better way to prepare for an interview than to do a mock interview with someone that went through the interview process the year before? Being able to build that network and surround yourself with like-minded folks, such as by participating in student clubs, is something that I highly recommend for incoming students. In terms of courses, some finance students do not realize that accounting is an integral part for many jobs in the finance sector. Accounting is the language of business and being able to understand the accounting definitely helped me better understand the companies that I was analyzing. If you are interested in finance (undergrad), do not think that third- and fourth-year accounting courses are only for CPA students. 5. How's the job like and what makes the job interesting?

For my job, I am responsible for making investment recommendations to my portfolio managers during the investment process. To come up with a recommendation, I spend a significant amount of time reading and performing financial modelling to understand the industry, the company specifically and the risks/opportunities. After the due diligence process, I summarize my recommendations and the supporting rationale through a detailed research report that is then presented to our internal investment committee. About 50% of my time is spent doing independent research while the other 50% is spent bouncing ideas off and discussing with the team. We have a very small team of four at my firm, which encourages the collaborative environment. Being on the buy-side is a very rewarding experience as you can specifically see the impact that your work has on the fund’s performance (for better or for worse). Every day is a learning experience as there is always something new out there that you can learn and read about to help build your knowledge and refine your thinking. As your performance is easily observed, that drive and motivation to do better every day is a challenge that makes the job interesting. 6. What knowledge, skill sets and personality are needed to be successful in your field?

As a credit analyst, the drive to learn and the patience to read are two very important traits. You will also need to be able to think critically and have an analytical mindset. A significant portion of your day is spent reading, processing and analyzing information to formulate your thoughts and investment thesis. If you are a person that just reads headlines and regurgitates what you read, your probability of success will be very low. At the end of the day, you are in the role because your technical knowledge and thoughts are valued and are expected to contribute to stronger fund performance.

7. What are the key performance expectation and indicators? What is the career path and progression?

As a publishing analyst, your main output is the research reports that you publish. As such, the quality of the report and your presentation to the internal committees are a reflection of your capabilities, work ethic and development. On the buy-side, the expectation is that your investment recommendations will add to incremental performance for the fund and this is very observable – your investment return numbers over time are essentially your report card. In terms of progression, the analyst role supports the portfolio manager(s) by contributing investment ideas (buy/sell). The next level would be the role of a portfolio manager, who is responsible for the actual investment decisions. The organizational charts are typically flat, unlike other organizations where you might have more middle-management roles. As a result, progression may not necessarily be correlated with the number of years in the industry, but more with performance.


When interviewing for an entry-level position, it is often assumed that the student would have the basic finance knowledge through the courses they take (marks are often an easy screener); therefore, during the interview stage, students are often asked questions beyond the textbook to test their grasp of the topics and their ability to think critically. It is important not to just memorize what you read, but to understand it. In addition, “fit” is just as important. Can this person work on a team? Is this person willing to learn and put in the work? An employer is essentially investing his or her time and resources in a potential candidate, so finding the right candidate that would fit the work environment is critical.

ms. carrie chai (mba 11) - york university

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