Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 5 NOVEMBER 1952

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

1044 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Paper.

WEDNESDAY, 5 NOVEMBER, 1952.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. J. H. Manu, Bris­bane) took the chair at 11 a.m.

QUESTION.

DIVERSION OF CANE CROPS.

Mr. BYRNE (Mourilyan) asked the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock-

'' In the event of any ~sugar mill being unable to crush the cane allotted to it for the 1952 season can any provision be made for adjoining mills to assist in this direc­tion in order that such crop might be fully harvested~ ' '

Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Tablelands) replied-

'' Subject to mutual arrangement between the mills concerned, cane can be crushed by a mill on behalf of any other mill with excess cane. Under the Regula­tion of Sugar Cane Prices Acts, the Central Sugar Cane Prices Board, on application thereto, has power to assign lands to any mill or alter the assignment thereof from one mill to another either temporarily or permanently.''

DRESS OF MEMBERS.

llir. AIKENS (Mundingburra) : I should like permission to ask a question of you, Mr. Speaker. Have you or do you propose to give any consideration to the suggestion made yesterday by the hon. member for Yeronga that members be allowed to appear in the Chamber and elsewhere about the House in a safari coat and an open-necked shirt~ If so, will you go further and consider the advisability of allowing members to appear in the national costume of North Queens­laud-a pair of pants, a shirt, and an optional tie. In view of the hot weather I think that suggestion should be given con­sideration.

Mr. SPEAKER: I do not propose to take any action in the matter at all.

NOTICE OF QUESTIONS FOR ABSENT MEMBERS.

JUr. SPEAKER: I point out to hon. members that the practice is growing of an hon. member's giving notice of a question on behalf of an hon. member who is absent. I think that practice is wrong and that it should be discontinued.

llir. AIKENS: A member is entitled to ask a question on behalf of another hon. member of which notice has been given?

Mr. SPEAKER: Yes. The procedure I have mentioned happened this morning and on other occasions and I think it should be discouraged.

PAPER.

The following paper was laid on the table­Regulations under the Apprentices and

Minors Acts, 1929 to 1948 (23 October).

Milk Supply Bill. [5 NovEMBER.] M ilk Supply Bill. 1045

MILK SUPPLY BILL.

COMMITTEE.

(The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Fan·ell, Maryborough, in the chair.)

Clauses 1 to 8, both inclusive, as read, agreed to.

Clause 9-Reconstitution of the Brisbane Milk Board-

lUr. PLUNKETT (Darlington) (11.9 a.m.): I move the following amendment-

" On page 7, line 37 omit the word­' iive'

and insert in lieu thereof the word-' six'.''

This clause deals with the constitution of the board, and as hon. members know, we are very keen to get representation for the people whose product will be handled by it. We think that they have not had a fair deal in the matter of representation and we therefore move the amendment to correct the wrong.

The board is to have wide powers of con­trol of a foodstuff that is used to a greater extent, probably, than any other foodstuff. It is to consist of iive representatives of various interests, with a chairman appointed by the Government. We ask that as the producers are very much interested iinancially they should have greater representation than the two provided for in the Bill and our amendment proposes that they shall have three representatives. This would require a board of seven members instead of six.·

I would point out that should the Minister accept the amendment the producers will not have a majority on the board but we think it is fair and reasonable that this additional representation should be given to the pro­ducers, in view of the fact that they are a very important factor in the operations of the board. When all is said and done, the producers represent seven-tenths of the wealth or assets involved, but on the board to be constituted to deal with their product, a product that is really their livelihood, they have only one-third of the representation. That is out of focus altogether and they are entitled to greater representation.

On the board of six the addition of one will not make much difference. The whole­salers are represented. There is one repre­sentative each of the retailers and the con­sumers. There will be two producers' repre­sentative.s and a government representative, the chairman who will be appointed by the Government. The value of the product is to be iixed by an outside organisation the Com­missioner of Prices, under the Proiiteering Prevention Act. When we examine the interests of all these people, I think we must agree that the amendment is justiiied. When we are dealing with the livelihood of people, the best way to get their support and encourage them in what they are doing is to provide adequate representation for them on the board set up to control the marketing of their product. The other interests con­cerned, the wholesaler, the retail vendor, and'

the consumer, are to have representation on the board, which primarily deals with the welfare of a larger number of people, the producers. I have no objection to the repre­sentation of these other interests and if the Minister would agree to this amendment I would say, ''Very well, have all these other representatives on the board.''

Let us examine the interests of these other operators. The wholesale vendor has a large amount of money involved, has to do much of the work and provide all the neces­sary machinery. He has a greater right to representation on the board than the retail vendor, who has not anything like the same amount of money or vvork involved. Every­body says that the consumer is very important. He is. My point is that the con­sumer does not need representation on a board like this. The price he has to pay for the product is iixed by the Commissioner of Prices, who is appointed by the Government to iix prices under the Proiiteering Prevention Act, and that in itself should be adequate protection for him. The only things that interest the consumer are the price he is required to pay and the quality of the article he gets in return for that price. The price of milk is governed by the Com­missioner of Prices and the quality is ensured by the Health Act. I repeat that for that rea.son alone it is unnecessary to give the consumer representation on this board.

Many of the producers of milk for t~e city of Brisbane have the whole of therr savings invested in milk production and the whole of their family working in the industry and it is not fair to give them only two representatives on a board of six members. When we were discussing the matter pre­viously, the Minister said that the whole thing would be thrown out of balance if we added one more member, but I venture the opinion that it never was in balance.

])Ir. Col!ius: I agree that it never was.

lUr. PLUNKETT: By accepting the amendment, the Minister would be going a long way towards putting it in balance.

I mentioned previously that in England they did proceed to appoint a milk board on which the consumer ~would have representation but they discovered that they could not pro­tect the consumer if they did not have the co-operation and help of the producers. The result was that on a board of 18 members the producers have 15 representatives, the other three being Government appointees, and that board has been successful in increasing the production and improving the distribution of milk.

Our desire is to make representation on the board more equitable and more in keeping with what a balanced board should be. By accepting the amendment the Minister will be doing much to offset what we might call some of the debits being suffered by the producers now. In this industry, as with all primary productions, stability is essential. Unless the producers can see some hope of stability they will not engage in production. That is why we see a decline in production when prices fall to a low level.

1046 Milk Supply Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Milk Supply Bill.

It has to be remembered also that in this case we are dealing with a perishable product. In some instances it has to be brought from as far as 100 miles away, provision has to be made for its cooling, bottling and final distri­bution and the people who are directly interested in this g1 eat undertaking should hav,:: proper representation on any board hanilling their product.

JUr. Aikens: What is your main objection to the wording of the clause as it stands~

1\Ir. PLUNKET'l': I have moved my amendment to increase the number of mem­bers from five to six, the additional mem­ber to be a producers' representative, and that is only fair and reasonable. I am very sorry that the Minister did not make this alteration in the first instance. IV e heartily agree with much that is contained in the Bill, but we have a few other amendments to propose and I know that the Minister has some that meet with our wishes. The constitution of a boaTd to control the milk business in Queensland is a very impoTtant matter and I think that the Government are going to hamstring the operations of the board if they do not give fair and reason­able representation to the producers, and it is for that reason that I have moved my amendment.

Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Tablelands­Secretary for Agricultme and Stock) (11.21 a.m.) : After mature consideration of the Bill before Committee I agree that it does not give the fairest Tepresentation that can be given to the milk-producers, having in view the :fact that as it is drafted there are t1vo repTesentatives of the pToducers registered with the Milk Board diTect but no recognition is given to the bigger pe;cent­age of milk-producers, those who supply co-operative factories. It seems that the producers supplying co-operative factories need to have representation as producers and consequently I propose at a later stage to move an amendment that gives representa­tion to those supplying milk to co-operative factories. But in doing that I do not want to increase the number of reprcsentative3 on the board. In the first place I do not think it would be of any paTticular advantage to the producers if I did that unless in turn I increased the repTesentation more or less all round, because if I increased the repre­sentation of the producers it would mean that the;' could have control of the board and I do not want any section of interest to have control of the b"oard.

The hon. member for Darlington said that the amendment was onlv fair to the board itself. That sounds all right, but it does not work out that way. \Ve are giving the wholesale vem1ors a representative on the board and I think that thev are entitled ~o that representation. We ar~ also register­mg as 1vholesale eo-operntive factories selling milk for use 1vithin the Bris­b~ne milk district, and consequently they w1ll have a veTy strong say as to who will represent them on the board. The balance

of the board would be destroyed if on a board of seven there were four producers' representatives instead of three on a board of six.

I know that the hon. member for Darling­ton has quoted the United Kingdom, where there is a board of 18. It may be all right to Jmve a board of 18, but in my opinion such a board is unwieldy. The creation of big boards leads to di~eTgence of opinion without particulaT benefit to anybody. It must be remembered that the milk board in the United Kingdom serves approximately 50,000,000 people, as it embraces the >Yhole of the United Kingdom and Northern Ire­land. The board we are speaking of serves only the city of Brisbane, with a population of less than half a million people. If we consider the number of people represented, our board is proportionately much larger than the English board.

The hon. member has refened to the amount of money invested in this industry by the producers. I dare say that the producers have a great deal of money invested in it, but the major part of their interest in the industry does not lie in supplying milk to the city of Brisbane; I should say that the greater proportion of the producers supply mainly cream to butter factories and milk to cheese factories, condensed milk factories or milk processing factories. Therefore, they have a division of interest and it becomes a question of >Yho have the greatest interest in the milk business. Is it the people who have money inYested in it, or is it the half­mjllion people in Brisbane who have to be supplied with wholesome milk~ If there is to be a division of interests along those lines, I should be inclined to put the human interest first.

I believe that the Bill as drafted, together with an amendment to this clause that I pro­pose moving, makes ample provision for the representation of producers in a fair a1H1 equitable manner. Consequently, I do not propose to accept this amendment.

Mr. MULLER (Fassifern) (11.27 a m.): I have a few observations to make on the ~mendment that has been moved by the hon. member for Darl'ington. In my opinion this board should be a producers' board. It is being constituted for the purpose of enabling dairy farmers to market their milk. It will consist of a chairman, who will be appointed by the Government-! have no objection to that-two members of the board representing the producers and one representing the whole­salers-! have no objection to the appoint­meiJt of one wholesalers' representative­and one member to represent the retailers. As I said on the introductory stage of the Bill, for the life of me I cannot see any ,justification for the appointment of a retailers' representative to the board. Retailers play some part in the distribution of milk, of course, but they are part and parcel of the organisation that the board will be expected to controL It could be argued I admit, that it may be necessary for the board to exercise some control over the pro­ducer, nevertheless the retailer comes and

Milk Supply Bill. [5 NovEMBER.] Milk Supply Bill. 1047

goes; he may be in the business this week and out of it next week. He is compensated for the service he gives to the industry whilst he is giving it and his influence on the board could definitely be harmful. Further, he will be making no contribution to the cost of financing the board; that will be done by a levy on the producers. As I say, I fail to see the justification for having a retailers' representative on the board.

The Bill says also that one member of the board shall represent the consumers. As I have said, I offer no objection to that. Any primary producer who disregards the interests of the consumer is doing himself an injury.

1\Ir. Aikens: It is all right if the con­sumers elect him and he is not merely a nominee of the Government.

Mr. IIIULLER: That is another point. I do not know how we could define who is entitled to vote in electing a representative of the consumers. I think the Minister will tell us that it is his intention to appoint the representative of the consumers, but we on this side of the Committee do not agree with that method. We think some representative body should be entrusted with that responsibility.

My main concern, however, is the fact that the Minister feels that altering the consti­tution of the board would in some way seriously affect the aims and objectives of this legislation.

The Butter Board consists of seven repre­sentatives, six of whom are elected by the producers, that is, the dairy farmers, and one nominated by the Government. It has not embarrassed the consumers in any way and we have not conflicted with Government policy. The Minister has the right by virtue of his office, to question any move that it might make that would conflict with Government policy.

Mr. Aikens: Has he the power of veto~

Mr. MULLER: That is the point I make -he has the power of veto. If the board proposes to make any great change in policy, the proposal must be submitted to the Minister for approval by issue of an order in council. I am sure that the Minister will agree that the Butter Board has had full regard for the interests of the consumers and that it has always endeavoured to act in con­formity with Government policy. In that respect it has done a good job. I am not now blowing my own trumpet in this connection because I became chairman of the board only in the last 18 months and the board was in existence long before that. I am now deal­ing with a principle and I am pointing out that a board of seven members, six of whom represent the primary produce:r:s, has not done any harm to the consumers but on the other hand has done a very good job generally. No other commodity board has done more in the interests of the producers and the consumers than the Butter Board.

Mr. Aikens: The Government did not think so last year.

1952-2M

Mr. MULLER: I really believe that the Government thought that it had b~t if they did not think so they could get nd of the board.

The CHAIRIIIAN: Order! The hon. member will not be in order in discussing the Butter Board.

1\'Ir. MULLER: I am using it as a parallel. It is a commodity board that has six representatives of the producers of a total of seven. If a board constituted in that way can give such excellent results to the pro­ducers and consumers it is quite clear that a milk board of six with three representatives of the producers could also give an exce~lent service to consumers and producers. Th~ee out of seven, which is the suggestion in the amendment would be fair representation. If the amend:Uent was accepted it would not necessarily follow that the producers would have the majority representation on the board. It would be very hard to say how the chair­man would vote or how the wholesale vendors' representative would vote or how the retail vendors' representative would vote. The amendment simply provides that the producers shall have three represen ta ti ves of a total membership of seven.

The producers are in a splendid position to know the requirements of the indu.stry. The milk must be produced before It can be treated and passed on for sale.

Mr. Collins: This is not a producers' board; it is a milk board.

Mr. MULLER: The Minister has met the opposition to the Bill to some extent b;y intimating that he intends to meet the posi­tion in another way. He has foreshadowed an amendment to spread the representation of the producers but that is not a solution of the problem. The Bill provides that the two representatives of the producers shall be elected by people supplying milk dire~t to Brisbane. The Minister's intention IS to spread the representation by gi~ing o_ne representative to the people sendmg milk direct to Brisbane and the other represen­tative to the factories that send milk to Brisbane. That is very important too because as time goes on the percen~age ?f milk supplied direct from the facton~s will increase and it will be necessary to go farther and still farther out. I am not going to say that the representation shou~d not be spread in this way but I should hke to _make the plea to the Minister to ac~ept this amend­ment as well. He would mcrease the per­sonnel of the board by only one new member. We are not asking him to e:-:clude !1nyone. It has been said that certam sectwns to whom the Bill gives representation are not entitled to it but this amendment does not ask that they be excluded. It simply a~ks that the Minister leave the rep res en ta twn as set out in the Bill but give the pr?· ducers just one more seat. As the Bill stands the board will be a producers' board under the control of the consumers. The consumers' representatives will control the destiny of the industry because the pro­ducers' representatives will b~ in the minority. The success of the Bill depends

1048 Milk Supply Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Milk Supply Bill.

entirely on the representation of the new sectional interests that will be introduced into the board. They will not understand organ­ised marketing. Then the Minister will have to be very careful whom he selects to act as chairman. What do the retailers know about the production end~ They are concerned simply with the retailing and consumption of the product. In fact, they only know ~bout its distrubution. Therefore, their mterests are in contradiction to the other interests on the board. Before this provi­si?n is actually decided upon we should be mighty careful, and if we increase the pro­ducers' representation it will make the Bill a better one than in the form originally presented to us.

Mr. ~EADING (Marodian) (11.37 a.m.) : ~ heartily approve of the amendment, becanse It would give the producer one additional representative on the board. I am not com­plaining about the representation of the wholesaler, the retailer and the consumer, but I do suggest that the board as set out in the Bill is an unbalanced one and the amendment would improve it considerably. If on the one hand provision is made for three pro­ducers' representatives and on the other hand for a representative of the interests repre­sented by the wholesaler, retailer and consumer with an independent chairman who possessed a good knowledge of the industry as from all its angles it would be better balanced, as the chairman would then have to exercise only his casting vote. As it is at pr~sent, the non-producing interests have maJ.onty representation and that would be obv1ated if the Minister accepted the amendment.

Many arguments can be advanced in favour of h~ving another producer representative. Pract~cally every day we hear hon. members opposite advancing arguments in favour of enco~ragi:t;g increased primary production and mducmg people to go on the land. TB.ey are always_ asking us to produce; they are always saymg what we should' do to increase produ_ction, and putting forth reasons why that IS necessary. Under this Bill the Gov­ernment, after having encouraged the pro­ducer to produce more, are taking awav from him the control of his product after he has produced it. Under the Bill that is before us the p_roducer of the milk will have very little say m the selling of his commoditv. Is that encouragement~ It certainly gives a producer a. rea.son for saying, "What is the good of gomg mto the milk industry~ While I may be regarded' as a very important factor at the producing end, when it comes to the ~arketing of it I can be outvoted by other mterests.'' After all, there will be no milk for the wholesaler or anybody else unless the producer produces it. I <;lo not know whether the Minister intentionally misunderstood what the member for Darlington said about the board set up in Great Britain. The hon. member did say that there was a board of 18 but he did not suggest a boaru of 18 here. What he was trying to draw the Minister's attention to was the fact that of 18 members 15 represented the producers.

Mr. Collins: Not elected by the pro­ducers.

Mr. HEADING: I do not know whether they are or not, but whoever appoints them, the fact remains that 15 of 18 r~present pro­ducers, which shows that the Government of Great Britain recognise the importance of the primary producer in the milk industry. This Government have lost sight of the importance of the primary producer. The Minister said he was considering the human interests rather than the producers' interes~s.

lUr. Collins: As well as the producers' interests.

Mr. HEADING: The Minister is giving more importance to the human interest; do not forget that the producer also is human.

lUr. Collins: He would not be able to sell his milk unless there were consumers.

Mr. HEADING: I recognise that, but the :first thing is to get it produced; that is the basis of the whole industry. The pro­ducer is the most important section. It is getting more difficult every day to get people to stay on the land; the Minister knows that as well as I do. I am not saying that the Minister does not do quite a number of tnings that he thinks will help to keep people on the land, and I am trying to help him to be more successful than he will be if the amendment is not agreed to. I appeal to the Minister, even though he has said that he will not accept the amendment, to give a second thought to it and decide that the interests of the producer deserve greater representation on this board.

Mr. CHALK (Lockyer) (11.43 a.m.) : I should like to associate myself with the amendment moved by the hon. member for Darlington. I think it is true to say that by delaying the passing of this Bill the Minister has given ample opportunity for many people in the country to c!iscuss it. I believe I am correct in saying that it has been more discussed in the country than any other Bill for a long time. The reason for that is its importance to the primary producer.

The Minister said this was not a pro­ducers' board but a milk board. Technically that is quite correct, but the producer is looking to this Bill with one object, the satis­factory marketing of milk he produces. When we take into consideration that at least 90 to 95 per cent. of the interests of the Brisbane Milk Board will centre round milk as a com­modity I think the producer is q11ite justi:fied in asking for extra representation.

A number of producers came to me a few days ago and what they said about the Bill has been borne out by hon. members on this side who have spoken. The contention of the producers is that the board is top-heavy because the producers have only two repre­sentatives on it. The Minister has said th<tt he does not propose to accept the amendment. It is all very well for him to say that the wholesaler will probably link up with the pro­ducer and therefore the board will be in favour of the producer immediately but that

M ilk Supply Bill. [5 NovEMBER.] M ilk Supply Bill. 1049

need not be so. The point made by the hon. member for Marodian was a good one. He pointed out that because of the present 'lOn­stitution of the board the chairman of the board may have on some occasions to give a casting vote.

The board is proposed to be set up on the basis of two primary producers' represen­tatives, a wholesalers' representative, a retailers' representative and a consumers' representative, but I think that the producer is justified in asking for three representatives on the board, considering that it is chiefly his interests that are being controlled, or, should I say, taken care of by the board.

Looking at the retailers' position-I will not say this as deliberately perhaps as some other hon. members who have spoken and who have stated that they do not think he is entitled to any representation. Probably he has every right to a voice on the board but he is not entitled to anything like the same interest and the same deciding influence on the board as the primary prolucer. After all, the retailer and the consumer are somewhat controlled and their interests are somewhat protected today by price control and the health regulations, but with two votes they have a very big voice on the board.

The amendment moved by the hon. member for 'Darlington has considerable merit. I can say very deliberately that it puts forward the principle the primary producer is seeking. Re asks for equitable representation on this board and because he is entitled to it the Minister should give further consideration to the amendment before absolutely declining to accept it.

l\'Ir. BURROWS (Port Curtis) (11.48 a.m.) : The most desirable thing to be <mcouraged in this matter is tolerance. It is easy enough for hon. members, in trying to make their alley good, to endeavour to placate certain interests, but in some instances it will be found that such advocacy is inspired by selfishness. The hon. member who has just resumed his seat apparently has no retailers in his electorate but has a large number of producers, consequently he cannot see any further than the producers.

l\'Ir. Chalk: That is not right. I said I was not opposed to retailers.

Mr. BURROWS: It is all very well for hon. members to say they do not oppose somebody else's representation, but that is like my telling my opponent that I do not mind his having a pea rifle so long as I can 1mve a machine gun. On these boards there .are two essential principles that must be recognised.

The first is that the board must be represen­tative of all interests concerned. The second is that the representation on it must be balanced, not lopsided. If it is not balanced we shall have partiality in administration, with the result that it will not operate in the interests of the great majority of all the people who may be concerned.

At the moment the producers are to have two representatives, the retailers one, the wholesalers one, and the consumers one. Each of those interests is a cog in the machinery that goes to make up the Milk Board. Each has its particular function and hon. members should support any legislation in which that degree of tolerance is exercised and in which the other man's interests are recognised by all. If, merely for political expediency, hon. members opposite urge that a preponderance of representation should be given to the interests that possess the greatest voting strength in their electorates, it might be all right for political purposes, but although I have perhaps as many milk­producers in my electorate as any other member, I know those producers have enough intelligence to recognise that if we had no consumers there would be no need for pro­ducers. I know they have enough intelli­gence to appreciate the fact that each section represents a cog in one unit and that together they make an efficient whole, and if the producers' representation on the board as proposed in the Bill is the only objection hon. members opposite can find to it, that in itself is commendation of the Minister's proposal.

Mr. NICKLIN (Landsborough-Leader of the Opposition) (11.53 a.m.): The hon. member who has just resumed his seat never looks at anything that comes before us with­out endeavouring to see in it some political implication. In submitting this amendment, we are desirous of appointing a board that will represent all sections of the community equitably. The board proposed by the Minister does not do that.

The principal objection the Minister has to our amendment is that he does not want to have any one section of the community dominating the board. Will the carrying of this amendment give any one section a domin­ating vote on the board~ Of course not; but it will give more equitable represen~ation to the most important section of the mdustry, the only section under the board's control. as to which no provision is made for controllmg its prices, the only section that is not looked after at the moment by price-fixing regulations.

Let us examine the present representation on the board. There are two representatives of the producers, two of the vending sections, and one of the consumers, with a Government chairman. Irrespective of whether it is a good season or bad season, irrespective of whether there is no milk or tons of milk, the vendors get their return for their labours and know what they will get.

Mr. Walsh: How can they, with short supply~

l\'Ir. NICKLIN: They know what they will earn on their supplies. They are assured of working expenses plus a reasonable margin and, as I have pointed out already, under the price-:fixing structure the milk-producers are at the wrong end of the line, as they get what is left. Prices are not built round what has been found to be a fair return to producers with a margin for each section of

1050 Milk Supply Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Milk Supply Bill.

the trade. For example, with the last reduc­tion in the price of milk, the- vending section is not affected in any way. What the producer loses the consumer gains. That alone is sufficient to justify the amendment before the Committee to increase the producers' representation on the board.

Mr. Power: The producer d®es not want an investigation into the cost of pro­duction of milk today.

Mr. NICKLIN: The prices of dairy products, as the Attorney-General knows, are under constant investigation.

Mr. Power: No, milk production is not.

Mr. NICKLIN: If there was a full investigation into the cost structme of the dairying industry at the present time it is doubtful whether the producers would not be entitled to more than they are getting today for their product. That argument advanced by the Attorney-General does not hold water. As I pointed out in my second­reading speeeh, this board will have very wide powers and will make many grave decisions and will make decisions that will :;tffect the livelihood of the persons concerned m the production and handling of milk. That being so, it should be the best possible board we can get and the most equitably con­stitute_d. With only two producers'· repre­sentatives on the board'--the most important section of the whole of the trade-and equal represent>~tion given to the vending section, one would not call the representation equitable.

Mr. Power: Without the consumer the producer is of no value.

lUr. NICKLIN: There would be no consumer if the producers did not produce something to consume and there would be no life in the world if no food was produced for people to eat.

Mr. Walsh: They are dependent on each other.

Mr. NICKLIN: I admit that but the producer could live without the consumer because he could eat what he could produce but the consumer could not live without the producer, and that is the point we must not forget. The Secretary for Agriculture and Stock, backed up by the Treasurer and other hon. members, has much to say in this Chamber about their concern for the producers of this State.

Mr. Walsh: We have always shown that.

1\fr. NICKLIN: The Treasurer repeats the statement, but when the acid test is put on the Government to give a fair deal and f:;tir representation to the producers' organisa­tiOns we soon :find out where the Government stand'. They are not on the side of the pro­ducer. Look at the existing board, which has equal representation for the producers and the wholesalers, with a chairman appointed by the Government to represent the consumers. That board has done a mighty job under great difficulties, which proves con­clusively that the representation on it has

been equitable. Now, however, it is pro­posed to reduce the representation of the producers from three to two. What justi:fica­tion can the Government have for doing that f None at all ! It could be said that they have no regard at all for the producers but think they are an unimportant section of the milk-supply structure. A fair representation for the producers would be three, as is sug­gested in this amendment. That would not give those three producers' representatives dominant power with which to control the board. They would be only three against the other four representatives, who could gang up against them to the detriment of the producers .

.lUr. Walsh: Are you expecting that that will be done~

1\Ir. NICKLIN: I am not expecting any­thing. I am merely visualising what can happen and what might happen. I am con­cerned with the rights of the producer, even if the Treasurer is not. Realising the impor­tance of this board to the industry, the powers it will have and the decisions it will have to make, I want to see that the most impor­ta;nt section of the milk industry, the pro­ducers, get adequate representation on it. It is essential that we should have greater pro­ducer representation than the Bill proposes.

Let us examine the Minister's argument that if he accepted our amendment the pro­ducers would have a dominant say on the board. Does he suggest that they would use those powers if they possessed them-and I suggest they would not-to the detriment of the consumers~ Would they use them to the detriment of the operations of the Milk Supply Act~ Will the Minister answer that question~ He will not, because he knows very well that not one producers' board in this State has ever taken advantage of the consumers. The producers know very well that the consumers are their market and that if they abuse their market they will lose the good will of their customers. Personally, I have every con:fidence in the fair-dealing of producers in the marketing of their products. Without fear of contradiction, I say that if this board consisted wholly of producers, the consumers and every other section of the industry would get a fair deal, because it would be to the advantage of the producers to see that they did. The Minister, however, notwithstanding his many protestations, which the producers d'o not believe, that he wants to see the producers adequately represented, for some reason or other is very concerned about giving other sections of the industry representation, rather than about giving added representation to the producers.

The amendment does not deprive any other section of representation on the board. We have one representative of the wholesale vendors and one representative of the retail vendors. The consumers are really repre­sented twice, :first of all by direct representa­tion on their behalf and then through the chairman of the board, because the chairman of every marketing board represents the consumers of the State.

The board has very wide power but not the important power to :fix the price of milk.

Milk Supply Bill. [5 NOVEMBER.] Milk Supply Bill. 1051

If it had the right to fix the price of milk it could give a better service to the com­munity than it will with its present powers.

li'Ir. Power: And what a time it would have then!

Mr. NICKLIN: It would certainly be removed from the worry and irritating tactics of the Attorney-General. Look how he mucked about with cream because he thought that somebody was doing a bit of standardising! His actions were very detri­mental to the producers and they prevented the people of Brisbane from having a bit of fresh cream.

Mr. Power: It stopped certain people from separating milk on their premises.

Mr. NICKLIN: He did a great disservice to the strawberry-growers of the State by preventing the people from getting cream to eat with their strawberries.

There is no doubt that as the board is constituted at the moment it is ill-balanced in that it has not got adequate producer representation. The amendment seeks to give it that "balance by giving it adequate producer representation and so placing it in a better position to distribute milk to the people of Brisbane more efficiently than at present by having a more efficient distribution of it.

Mr. MADSEN (Warwick) (12.7 p.m.): I support the amendment moved by the hon. member for Darlington and I repeat the arguments that I advanced at the second­reading stage of the Bill. I think that more emphasis has been placed on the distribution of milk than on its production. The Minister will agree that the supply of milk to Brisbane has worked fairly smoothly up to date but there has gradually been more and more dissatisfaction about processing and distri­bution generally. Unless we can do some­thing more to create satisfaction for the producer and at the same time protect the interests of the consumer, we can look forward to considerable difficulty. We have been very fortunate in having a good source of supply on the Darling Downs, between 60 and 100 miles of Brisbane, to meet a deficiency in areas closer in. During the recent dry spell the Darling Downs came to the aid of the people of Brisbane and enabled an uninterrupted supply to be maintained. Obviously, before a board can work satis­factorily the first essential is to have an adequate supply of the product. It is only by co-operating with the people who provide that product that we can hope for efficient distribution. It is good that all parties in the trade should work in partnership but there is no use in having efficient machinery for dis­tribution if there is no product to distribute.

Therefore, the ib:st essential is productioN. The producer, generally speaking, has put up with a great deal in the last few years, par­ticularly in the recent dry spell, when many cheese factories on the Downs were called on to meet the deficiency in supplies to Brisbane. Consequently, those cheese factories went out of production, and when rain came they were supposed to go into production again immediately.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! I would draw the attention of the hon. member to the fact that we are dealing with an amendment deal­ing with the number of members on the pro­posed Brisbane Milk Board.

Mr. :;\IADSEN: I think my remarks are germaine to the debate because the factories I refer to in actual fact represent the pro­ducers, because they made the supply in that period possible. From that angl,e ~lone, ai_~d particularly from the producers side of. It, notwithstanding that the co-operatives directly represent the producers, if it is pos­sible to allocate a direct producers' represen­tative to the board it will be to the advantage of the smooth working of the board. Fro:;n my experience of other producer-boards, t~Is form of representation has worked very satis­factorily and smoothly, and there ha~ been no disposition on their part to exploit any section of the people. It may be true that a couple of boards may not have worked as smoothly as was expected, but experience they gained by trial and error has benefited both producers and consumers, and has enabled them to market their products in an orderly fashion. Production must be so organised as to meet demands in times of shortage, and the best way by which that can be achieved is to have the full co-operation of the people on the production side of the industry. It is because of this fact that I strongly sup­port adequate producers representation as envisaged in the amendment.

Question-'' That the word proposed to be omitted from Clause 9 (Mr. Plunkett 's amendment) stand part of the clause-put; and the Committee divided-

AYES, 38. Mr. Brown Mr. Keyatta

Burrows Larcombe Byrne Marsden Clark McCathie Collins Moo re

r);, Devrles Moo res Dittmer Power

Mr. Donald Rasey Dufficy Riordan Duggan Roberts, F. E .. Dunstan Smith Eastment Taylor, J. R. Foley Turner Gair Wa!Rh Gardner Whyte Graham Wood Gunn

" Hi! ton Tellers: Jesson Crowley .. Jones, A. Lloyd

NOES, 26. Mr. All pass Mr. Munro

Chalk Nicholson Deck er Nick !in Dewar Dr. Noble Evans Mr. Pizzey Ewan Plunkett Gaven Roberts, L. H. S.

" Heading Sparkes

B. Jones, V. E. " Taylor, H.

Low Watson Luckins Madsen Tellers: Morris "

Bje!ke-Petersen Muller Wordsworth

PAIRS.

AYES. NOES.

Mr. Brosnan Mr. Hiley , Davis Mcintyre

Resolved in the affirmative.

1052 Milk Supply Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Milk Supply Bill.

Hon. H. H. Secretary for (12.19 p.m.): amendment-

COLLINS Agriculture I move

(Tablelands­and Stock)

the following

"On page 7, after line 48, insert the following paragraph-

' Subject to this Act, of the two persons for appointment as members to represent the producers-

( A) One shall be elected by the producers who for the time being are supplying or selling milk or cream for use within the Brisbane Milk District; and

(B) One (who shall be a producer and who supplies whole milk) shall be elected by the wholesale vendors can ying on business as such without the Brisbane Milk District and for the time being supplying or selling milk or cream for use within the Brisbane :Milk District and being prima_ry producers' co-operative assocra­tions registered under the Primary Producers' Co-operative Associa­tions Acts, 1923 to 1934.' ''

I think that amendment will cover all the points raised by members of the Opposition in connection with the amendment that has just been negatived. It will give the board a better-balanced representation than the amendment moved by the hon. member for Darlington.

I do not think that at this stage or at any stage of legislation we should say that one section of people is not necessary or that any section is more important than another. We all know that if there were no consumers there would be no producers because the pro­ducers would not be able to iind a market for their product. We would then be getting back to the dark ages when everybody pro­duced merely to meet his own needs.

The Leader of the Opposition made the accusation against us that where there is a division of interests this Government have always decided against the primary producer. That is very ill-found'ed criticism and one is rather surprised at it, coming from the Leader of the Opposition, who has a very great knowledge of what we have done fo'r the producers. I can assure the Committee that this Government have always recognised their rights. We claim to have done more for the primary producer than any of the Gov· ernments with the same politics or party asso­ciations. It was we who brought down marketing legislation giving primary pro­ducers control of the marlceting of their commodity. But this is not a commodity board; this is a milk board and we do not propose to set up a milk board with ill­balanced representation. There should not be an accusation, as there has been from the Leader of the Opposition, that this Govern­ment have always opposed the representation of the producers on the commodity boards. That is the last thing I do in those matters, but this board is not a producers' board but a milk-distribution board and there is no

warrant whatever for having a greater number of producer representatives on it than is provided for in the Bill.

There is no necessitY whatever 'to increase the board to unwieldy proportions. It has been contended that giving to the producers another representative on the board would mean only one additional man on the board but that would throw the representation all out of balance. The only way to balance the board then would be to increase the other representation. But why do that~ What would be the advantage of it~ This is the only milk board that will be in operation in Australia that will give the producers the right to elect their own representatives to the board. The representatives on every milk board are nominated ancl not many representatives have no individual interest, with no axe to grind for the primary pro­ducer or any section of the industry. I am not saying that is right. The case made by the Opposition was that we had decided in favour of representation that was against the primary producer but their own Govern­ments did not do what we are doing for the Brisbane :Milk Board. For instance, take Western Australia and Victoria, Governments of members of the Country Party and the Liberal Party. They have not given the milk­producers the right to elect their own repre­sentatin: to the board. We are doing that. There is also a greater propo:tion of repre­sentation on this board of the primary interests between producers and wholesalers, than on the present board. I do not say that the present board has not done a good job. It did a good job until conditions became difficult and when that happened it did not have the necessary powers to do its work in the way we wanted it done.

Without any more ado and without reply­ing to all the arguments raised by the Oppo­sition, which were more or less reiteration of a single principle, I move this amendment.

Mr. PLUNKETT (Darlington) (12.26 p.m.) : I am pleased to be able to support the amendment, because it does meet our views. It would seem that the :Minister admits the justice of our argument, and I am confident that his amendment will receive the wholehearted support of the industry in general.

The :Minister argued that he was establish­ing a milk board, not a commodity board, but I remind him that I could just as easily argue that it is a Milk Supply Bill and that as the word ''supply'' is used it applies only to producers or suppliers. He also referred to commodity boards and what his Govern­ment had done in passing legislation for the marketing of primary products. I remind him that the producers had been advocating the introduction of marketing legislation for many years. For a long period they were advising him and urging him to introduce it and when we look into the facts it cannot be denied that this Government have done only what the producers themselves have been suggesting should be done. However, at this stage we have pleasure in supporting the amendment.

Milk Supply Bill. [5 NOVEMBER.) M ilk Supply Bill. 1053

Mr. lUULLER (Fassifern) (12.28 p.m.) : It must be admitted that by making the amendment the Committee will be improving the Bill to some extent, and we are thankful for small mercies. Although the Minister will not agree to the extra representation for the producers, he is now dividing the producer representation so that one repre­sentative will speak for the factories that supply milk. After all, factories play a big part in supplying milk to the city of Brisbane. If it had not been for them the position in this city during the recent drought period would have been desperate, and I feel that the Minister appreciates that fact and is prompted by it to move this amendment.

It will be remembered that when we exper­ienced that shortage early in 1952 a com­mittee was appointed to investigate ways of augmenting the supply and even went over the border and as far into New South Wales as Lismore to obtain milk. Unfortunately, milk is still being drawn from that territory while milk being produced in areas closer to Brisbane is not being used. It must be admitted, however, that if any section of the suppliers deserves representation it is the factories. As time goes on, we can see virtually the whole of the Brisbane milk supply being drawn from these butter fac­tories. Brisbane must have a milk supply and the Milk Board must get it, and it is better for it to co-operate with the factories than fight them. As time goes on this source of supply will become a very important one and I see nothing wrong with giving this section two representatives on the board. I do not think that you can give it adequate representation in one member because this section of production embraces factories from Caboolture to the border, taking in Beaudesert, Kingston, Southport' and my own association, the Queensland Farmers' Co-operation Association Limited, and going right out to the Downs, Warwick and Pitts­worth. It will be seen that it covers a very wide area. Furthermore, a very big job lies ahead--and the Minister is alive to this­as we have to do something to control the supply of milk to Brisbane. The real trouble is that at times we have too much and at other times too little; you cannot lay down an organisation without control and the only way to havp control is to give adequate representation to the factories doing the job and I am hopeful that if the factories get adequate representation they will be able to do something to help the Milk Board in the regulation of supplies. These factories are an all-important section of the industry because we have to do something more than give Brisbane the quantity of milk it requires.

We have to do something about the surplus milk and a body is sitting in Brisbane today, the Co-operative Milk Federation, to consider ways and means of dealing with the surplus. If the Milk Board says, ''We are not inter­ested in you'' that body's job falls to the ground. If the factories get adequate repre­sentation-and by that I mean more than one representative-they could place their case before the Brisbane Milk Board and I think much of our trouble would be solved.

This matter has to be faced and unless this is done there is a possibility that when the first dry period arrives Brisbane will be short of milk. We have to see that the needs of our people, particularly the children and sick, are met. Large quantities are being produced within a 50- or 60-mile radius of Brisbane and a big organisation is needed to see that supplies are diverted to Brisbane as required. This is something that the new Milk Board can control if it plays ball with the factories. I am hopeful that as the Minister has given the factories some repre­sentation, our troubles will be met, but the representation is not sufficient to get the best results. Nevertheless the step taken by the Minister is in the right direction and I. am hopeful that in the not far distant future the Minister will see the need to amend this legislation to bring about a closer co-operation between the Milk Board and the factories supplying Brisbane's requirements.

Mr. NICKLIN (Landsborough-Leader of the Opposition) (12.34 p.m.): The amend­ment moved by the Minister certainly im­proves the Bill. We on this side of the Chamber are of a more generous nature than that hon. gentleman and are happy to accept his amendment as we believe that it will improve the working of the Bill. Our main responsibility is to improve legislation of this State and it is very pleasing to see many things suggested by the Opposition being incorporated in it from time to time.

As has been said by the hon. member for Fassifern, the producers, who unfortunately will have only two representatives on the board have a variety of interests spread over ~ wide area of country. The Bill makes provision for two representatives of the producers, but that would possibly lead to • misrepresentation. This amendment corrects the position by providing that one repre­sentative shall be elected by the producers who for the time being are supplying or selling milk or cream for use within the Brisbane milk district; that is, the milk­suppliers surrounding the metropolitan area who sell direct to the handlers of milk in this area, whether wholesale or retail.

As the hon. member for Fassifern has said, the great bulk of the milk coming to the city at present comes from the co-opera­tive factories round about the city area, and if this amendment had not been moved there would have been a grave possibility that that very important section of the milk suppliers would not have had any direct representa­tion on the board. When we realise that 56 per cent. of the milk coming to the city area comes from country districts covered by co-operative organisations we must admit that those organisations are certainly entitled to at least one representative on the board. It would have been fairer to allow the country suppliers to have two representatives and the direct suppliers to the metropolitan area one representative, but the Minister will not acc.:.pt that suggestion. We have, there­fore, to accept the next best thing, that is, one representative for each of the two sec­tions of producers who supply the metro­politan area.

1054 Milk Supply Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Milk Supply Bill

It is interesting to note that of the 14,000,000 gallons of milk. that came to the city last year, approximately 8,000,000 gallons came from country suppliers, and that the quantity of milk coming from country districts has increased by 176 per cent. in the last 10 years, and 22 co-opera­tive factories play a part in sending those supplies to the city. They are, therefore, definitely entitled to direct representation.

Another thing that this amendment does is to simplify the election of the member who will represent the factory interests that supply milk to the city. It would have been almost impossible to conduct an election among the hundreds of producers who supply the 22 factories concerned. That has been simplified, howe.wer, and we have at the same time brought about equitable representation as between the various sections of producers.

The Minister, in moving this amendment, contended that thp Labour Party had given the primary producers of this State every legislative advantage that they have received. It is true that the Minister's party has been responsible for putting on the statute book of this State a good deal of legislation to the benefit, and the disadvantage, of the primary producers of this State-that is only to be expected when we realise that this Government have been a Government for 20-odd years without a break-but may I say that any useful legislation that has been introduced by the Minister and his pre­decessors in office has always received the full support of the Opposition~ We have been responsible for many improvements in such legislation. The Minister referred to the Primary Producers' Organisation and Marketing Act, but if he looks back over the debates that took place when the measure was originally introduced he will find that the Opposition of the day were responsible for making what was a hotch-potch piece of legislation into a workable Act on behalf of the primary producers of this State.

Let me remind him also of some of the ways in which his Government have supporteu the primary producers of the State. In case he should have forgotten, let me recall to his mind the Primary Producers' Organisation and Marketing Act Amendment Act that was passed through this Chamber not so many moons ago, which took from the primary producers their right to control their own product. I refer to that famous butter-grab BilL That is just an example of the Govern­ment's sympathetic consideration for the primary producers of this State.

The amendment now before us will make for a better board and for the better working of it. We support it.

Amendment (Mr. Collins) agreed to.

Mr. NICHOLSON (Murrumba) (12.42 p.m.): I move the following amendment-

" On page 8, after line 18, insert the following paragraph-

' The person appointed from time to time as member of the Brisbane Milk

Board representing the consumers shall on each occasion be nominated by the National Council of Women.' ''

We think that if the consumers ' rep resen­tative is nominated by the Government he may conceivably be a person :whg is politi.<'ally biased whereas if the Natwnal Council of Women was required to make a nomination, such a person would be free of any political bias because the National Council of Women is non-political, and non-sectarian and is truly representative of the majority of the consumers in the metropolitan area. There are 97 organisations affiliated with this body. and I propose to read them in case there are hon. members who are not aware of the fact that so many organisations a~e affiliat.e'd with the main body. These affihated bodies are fully representative of all walks of life in the metropolitan area and there are some organisations outs.ide the n1etropo.litan district. On many occaswns the opmwns of the National Council of Women have been sought at price-fixing confere_nce~ and other gathe·r­ings and so we on tins side of the Cham~er feel that this body should be entrusted with the responsibility of nominatin¥ the c~n­sumers' representative on the Bnsbane Milk Board.

The 97 bodies affiliated with the National Council of Women include the following:-

Australian Council of Social Workers. Australian Trained Nurses Association. Anthropological Association. Australian-American Association of

Queensland. Association of Queensland Women's

Forum Club. All Services Co-operative Association. Albert Street Methodist Ladies' Guild. Ann Street Presbyterian ·women's Guild. Associated Churches of Christ. Australian Scots Association of

Queensland, Brisbane Grammar School Old Girls'

Association. Business and Professional Women's Club. Braille Writers' Association. Business Women's Club. Bard on Women's Club. Brisbane Women's Club. Brisbane Benevolent Society. Council of Child Minding Centres. Catholic Daughters Association of

Queensland. Charity Organisations of Brisbane C.O.S.

Welfare Services. Creche and Kindergarten Association of

Queensland. Deaf Women's Guild. District Nurses' Association. Girls' Friendly Society. Glennie (Queensland) Girls' Associativn. Girl Guides' Association. International Knowledge of Living

Fellowship. International Order of Good Templars.

Milk Supply Bill. [5 NOVEMBER.) Milk Supply Bill. 1055

Jewish Women's Guild of Brisbane. Kindercraft Civic Nursery. Kindergarten Graduates Association. Kings College Ladies' Committee. Lady Musgrave Lodge. Ladies' Harbour Lights Guild. League of Women Voters. Lyceum Club. Methodist Children's Homes Committee

(Queen Alexandra Home Ladies' Com­mittee).

Methodist Girls' Comradeship. Mothercraft Association. Mackay Association of Brisbane. Mothers' Union. National Council of Jewish Women. Nurses Social Club. New Settlers' League of Australia. Playground and Recreation Association. Presbyterian Women ;s Missionary

Union. Protestant Women's Democratic Asso­

ciation. Queensland Assistant Mistresses Asso­

ciation. Queensland Congregational Women's

Union. Queensland Women's Electoral League. Queensland Girls' Secondary Schools

Headmistresses Association. Queensland Methodist Home Missions

Women's Auxiliary. Queensland Bush Nursing Association. Queensland Bush Book Club. Queensland Spastic Children's Welfare

League. Queensland Queensland Queensland

Baptist Women's Union. Ladies' Welfare Association.

Girls' Secondary School Club.

Queensland Methodist Overseas Missions (Women's Auxiliary).

Queensland Temperance League. Queensland Women's Hockey Association. Queensland Ladies' Bowling Association. Queensland Society Prevention Cruelty. Queensland Housewives Association. Relatives and Friends Association

(H.D.). Returned

R.KS.A.I.L.A. Sisters Sub-Branch,

Save the Children's Fund (Queensland Branch).

Scottish Ladies' Club. St. J oan 's Social and Political Alliance. Salvation Army. St. David 's Society. Sunsetholme Ladies' Committee. South Brisbane Council Jewish Women. Ladies Auxiliary St. Andrew's ex-Service-

men's Pipe Band. Travellers' Aid Society. Town and Country Club. Toe H. (Women's Section).

Trades and Labour Council Women's Auxiliary.

Theosophical Order of Service. United Protestant Association. United Housekeepers League (Wynnum). University of Queensland Women's Club. University of Queensland Women Gradu·

ates Association. University of Queensland Staff Wives

Club. V.A.D. Club. Women's College Standing Committee. Women Pharmacists of Queensland. Women's Council of the Liberal Party. Women's Democratic Council. Women's Historical Association. War Widows Guild. Wesley Methodist Women's Church HGlp

Society. -Women's Christian Temperance Union Women's Interchurch Council. Young Peoples' Auxiliary of MethodiS\

Church. Young Women's Christian Association. Yorkshire Society of Queensland.

:illr. Collins: Could you not include th~ Graziers' Association in that lisU

Mr. NICHOLSON: I do not see that body mentioned. In fact, I think it is about the only one that is not. Many of th·ese organisations have a membership of over 1,000. If these 97 bodies have only 100 •nembers each, the National Council of Women is truly a very representative body. The Opposition think that every consideration should be given to the IDmendment, and we sincerely hope that the Minister will see his way clear to accept it.

lUr. F. E. ROBERTS (Nundah) (12.5{) p.m.) : I listened with interest to the discus­sion on this amendment, and while I recognise that the Queensland National Council of Women is quite a worthy organisa· tion and should be taken into consideration as far as the nomination of a consumers' representath e is eoneerned, nevertheless I am personally opposed to the amendment. Hon. members may overlook the fact that this Milk Supply Bill has particular reference to the city of Brisbane, and the board we are speaking of is being established for the purpose of distributing milk in the metro· politan area. That being so some organisa­tion really representative of the city of Brisbane should have the right of at least nominating the consumers' representative on this board. I therefore argue that, notwith· standing the existence of the worthy organisa­tion referred to by the hon. member, it should be given to the Brisbane City Council.

Mr. Evans: Are you not making a big enough mess of what you are CJring now~

:illr. F. E. ROBERTS: We art not making a bigger mess of the e>ty of Brisbane.

The CHAIRMAN: Order!

1056 Milk Supply Bill. [ASSEMBLY.]

Mr. F. E. ROBERTS: After this board is constituted, there will be a hundred and one different ways in which the closest co-operation and liaison between the Brisbane City Council and the board will be needed. For instance, there will be such matters as depots and the health and hygiene problems generally associated with the distribution of milk. These matters certainly come within the spher<J of the Brisbane City Council, just as much as they come within the sphere of the Government's Department of Health or, after the constitution of the board', of the board itself. For that reason there should be the closest possible relationship between the Brisbane City Council and this newly constituted board.

Further, let me point out to hon. members, irrespective of party politics, that the alder­men of the Brisbane City Council are more closely in touch with the consumers and the housewives of the metropolitan area than probably any other organisation in our com­munity, even the National Council of Women. The aldermen of the Brisbane City Council have a 24-hour day job dealing with such matters as leaking taps, garbage tins, sani­tary service, footpaths, drainage and a hundred and one different things that are of immed'iate and direct interest to the house­wife and to the consumer in the metropolitan area. By reason of that close association between the consumer and the Brisbane City Council through its aldermen I submit to the Committee that the only logical step that should be taken is to give the Brisbane City Council the right of nominating the consumers' representative on this newly constituted board. In that way you would first of all get a representative who was associated very closely with the consumers, and in the second place be able to create the closest liaison, which is very desirable and necessary, between the Brisbane City Council, which is the authority charged with: the responsibility of doing all the things a local authority is charged with doing, in the area for which this board is being established.

Mr. Nicholson: The Brisbane City Council is a political organisation and we are trying to avoid that.

Mr. F. E. ROBERTS: Every organisa­tion has political views. The hon. member who has just resumed his seat said that the National Council of Women was non-political but any organisation interested in social activities is, and must of necessity be, volitical.

Mr. Dewar: This organisation is not party political.

Mr. F. E. ROBERTS: I did not say party political.

For the reasons I have advanced-I am not suggesting that it should be done by way of amendment-something in that direction should be done after the establishment of the board and my submission is that consideration might well be given to having the represen­tative of the consumers nominated by the Brisbane City Council.

Progress reported. The House adjourned at 12.58 p.m.

Questions.