kissinger et al on cia domestic spying
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'MEMORANDl'M
TIlE WHITE HOUSE
~ R E g : : / N O D I S / X G D S
,MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PAR TICIPANTS: Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State
ar.d Assis tant to the President for
National Securi ty Affairs
Dr. James R. Schlesinger, Secretary of Defense
William Colby, Director, Central Intelligence
Agency
Philip Areeda, Deputy Counsel to the President
Mr. Laurence Silberman, Deputy Attorney General
Martin R. Hoffman, General Counsel,Depar tment of Defense
Lt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assis tant
to the Pres ident for National Security Affairs
DATE AND TIME: Thursday, February 20, 1975
10:36 -11:33 a .m.
PLACE: Secretary Kissi:!:lger' s Office
The White House
SUBJECT: Investigation of Allegations of CIA Domestic
Activities
Secretary Kissinger : Shouldn't we discuss what we a re trying to
achieve in these investigations and what we are trying to prevent?
The fact of these investigations could be as damaging to the
intell igence community as McCarthy was to the Foreign Service.
The nature of covert operationsv:.111
have a curious aspect to theaverage mind and out of perspect ive i t could look inexplicable •. The
result could be the drying up of the imaginations of the people on which
we depend. I f people think they will be indicted ten years la ter for what.
they do. That is m y overwhelming concern.
NSA, I don't know what the abuses are.1 .. ·•
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File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
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Secretary Kissinger : In all the world, the things which hurt us the
mos t are the CIA business and Turkey aid. The Bri t ish can ' t under
stand us. Callaghan says ins iders there are routinely tapped. Our
statements ought to indicate the gravity with which we view the situation.
Why can ' t Bill testify?
Director Colby: Names, countries of operat ions.
Secretary Kissinger : You can' t even do i t by country X. And Church
wants to prove you shouldn't do i t at all.
Director Colby: I would do i t in an executive session. I f i t leaks,
then we have a good case.
M r. Silberman: I agree . Our posit ion on executive privi lege would be
better i f we had a leak fir st.
Secretary Kissinger : What if Miller waited until after the investigation
to go to Hersh?
M r. Silberman: I t won't hold that long. We f i rs t give them less sensi t ive
information, so i f i t leaks we aren ' t hurt so much.
Secretary Kissinger : Suppose you say on covert operations that we support the moderate political parties? On a global basis that is okay,
but how does that serve Church's purpose? He will then just prove not
only is i t imm.oral but useless. We have to demonst ra te to foreign
countries we aren ' t too dangerous to cooperate with because of leaks.
Mr. Areeda: Is there any mileage in having the leaders of the select
comm.ittee have a meeting with the President?
M r. Silberman: It 's premature. They could only discuss generali t ies
because we couldn't know the l ine yet . We should keep the President
out of i t until we get a crunch.
Secretary Kissinger: I agree .
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M r. Silberman: The FBI may be the sexiest par t of this. Hoover
did things which won't stand scrutiny, especial ly under Johnson. We
will put these out in gener ic t e rms as quickly as possible. The Bureau
would like to dribble it out. This will diver t attention and show relat ive
cooperation with the co:m:mittee. This relates only to i l legal act ivi t ies.
[Kissinger relates story about Hoover and the female spy. ]
Secretary Kissinger : We have to be clear on what we want them to stay
out of.
Director Colby: I will refuse to give them the files on people - - on
privacy grounds.
M r. Areeda: That is a good case for a confrontation.
M r. Hoffman: But don't we have to preserve their abili ty to keep
securi ty?
Secretary Kissinger : Harrington is a leaker - - any House member has
access to the mater ia l we turn over.
We can' t fight on details - - only categories . We have to know
the rules about the NSA, cover t operations and any other areas .
M r. Areeda: There is a consti tutional problem on cover t operationsWe can ' t take the posture that we can engage in operations that were
kept f rom the co:m:mittees which Congress has designated as responsible
for over sight.
Secretary Kissinger : Firs t , we must define the issues. Then we could
go to court •••
M r. Si lberman: I doubt it would go to court - - it would take two years .
Secre tary Kissinger: Then we could go to the public that they are under
mining the country.
Director Colby: But we a re doing so l i t t le in covert act ivi t ies i t is
not too damaging.
Secretary Kissinger : Then disclosing them will show us to the world _
as a cream puff.
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There are dozens of places where we a re letting the si tuat ion
go by default.
Let 's establish categories of especially sensitive activit ies.
Then whoever test ifies will follow these guidelines.
Director Colby: The dangerous thing on NSA i s whether they can pick
up conversat ions between Americans.
Secretary Kissinger: My worry is not that they will find i l legali t ies in
NSA, but that in the process of finding out about illegalities they will
unravel NSA activit ies. In the process of giving us a clean bill of health
he could destroy us.
Do we havea
case on executive privilege?
M r. Silberman: In the case of U. S. v. Nixon, there is something there,
but you can't analyze it on a strict ly legal basis •
.Secretary Kissinger: I think this group should establish categories of
what we say, methods for protect ing what we need to keep. Then we
can set down with the Pres ident to understand what the issue is .
Then we would avoid the danger that to get through each week
we would jeopardize the next week's hearings.
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