ILoveMarketing.com/178 Full Transcripts Dean Jackson: I'm Dean Jackson. He's Joe Polish, and this is the I Love Marketing Podcast.

Hey everybody it's Dean Jackson. Joe Polish: And Joe Polish, and we want to welcome you to another episode of I Love Marketing.

And one of the great things about marketing is not just connecting with people through print, or video or audio but also doing it in person. And, one of the favorite episodes that we've had that has to do with Dean interviewing me was "The Magic Rapport Formula" which was way back when. What was that, episode number 29? Dean Jackson: I don't know but it was ... it may have been even earlier than that but it was ... yeah, it was really great.

I'm excited because you might show off one of your weakness here today. Joe Polish: Yeah, well we'll see. We'll see.

So we have a new friend of mine that I've had several conversations. She has a great book called 'How to be a Power Connector: The Five Plus 50 Plus 100 Rules for Turning Your Business Network into Profits." Her name is Judy Robinett. Judy, how are you? Judy Robinett:Great. Joe Polish: Awesome, awesome. Well my good friend who I've known for many years, Garrett Gunderson, introduced us. He's an awesome guy and I want to give the listeners a little bit about Judy if you don't know who she is.

She's the author of the book I just mentioned. It was released my McGraw­Hill in 2014. She's the co­author of a chapter in 'Crowdfunding for Dummies' so she really knows that field quite well. She's a business thought leader who's been profiled in the street. The Huffington Post forums, The Washington Post, Bloomberg Business. Has a sterling example of the new breed of super connectors who use their experience in networks to accelerate growth and enhance profitability. In her more than 30 years of experience as an entrepreneur and corporate leader, Judy has served as the CEO of both public and private companies, in the management positions at Fortune 500 companies, and she's been on the advisory board of Illuminate Ventures which is an early stage venture capital firm based in Menlo Park California. Pereg Ventures, and it's an adventure capital firm based in New York. Springboard Enterprises based in Washington D.C., and Women Innovate Mobile Whim Accelerators based in New York City, and Judy Robinett currently lives in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Probably because it's awesome and beautiful there, right?

Judy Robinett:Absolutely, that's no interview. Joe Polish: Yeah, because like you've mentioned in your book many D.C. people, many investors are in New York and Silicon Valley but you chose to be there. Probably because you are extraordinarily skilled at having a network which expands globally, and we're going to talk about one of my favorite subjects which is being a power connector. And I, of course, refer to it as a Genius Network. Not just networking but genius networking, and we do a lot of different approaches and probably very similar approaches to building a value­based network.

So, what did I not say about you that our listeners need to know about you? Judy Robinett:Probably nothing, well probably the best thing is that if you saw the movie "Napoleon Dynamite" I graduated from that same high school in Preston, Idaho. Joe Polish: Hey! That's good, that's good. I like you even more now that's great. Yeah, that's awesome.

Well, let's jump into it Judy because you have a tremendous amount of wisdom and I've read, not your entire book but a good portion of it and it's pretty awesome. It's really valuable. You've gotten endorsements from a lot of my friends and just some great people.

So, you've been an entrepreneur and a corporate leader for over 30 years so if someone asked you what do you actually do, how do you describe what your skillset is and what you do, and maybe anything else about yourself. Judy Robinett:In my heart, Joe and Dean, what I love to do is just really to make things happen and it took me years to figure out nothing happens without people.

People have the money, they have the skills, the opportunities, the partnerships, and I finally figured, with my head down working hard at my office regardless of where I was, that I couldn't know it all. And that I could make much better decisions, get to my goals, my objectives much quicker through other people, and I finally decided that I could teach it, and you know what most people are missing is they don't know how to connect the dots. Or, more importantly they don't know how to leverage, so like you Joe, I connect. Joe Polish: Yeah, and you know what's interesting is you describe this in your book, that you used to be even terrified in some cases of connecting and were shy and introverted or at least perceived yourself that way. And, I kind of feel very much the same way but you also, I mean you even say in the first chapter you were terrified of people and it wasn't until you were 40 years old that you even maybe had this new perspective and you also discovered everything is about connecting and so I'd like to just have you start with where did it first occur to you that the keys to the golden kingdom or whatever, are through relationships with other people and that you actually wanted to really develop that skill that maybe didn't come natural to you, or at least you didn't think it did in the beginning. Judy Robinett:Yeah, so in my early 30's I went from the public sector to the private sector and I ended up working for two Fortune 300 companies, Westinghouse at the Idaho National Engineering Lab and what I noticed was it didn't matter. A lot of people were working hard. They were very very smart, but they didn't seem to be getting as far ahead in their career as the other people. And the one thing that I noticed is they were much more social. That these people understood the art of networking and the art of strategic networking to help them get to their goals.

And I remember, Joe, being at these meetings. These events that the corporation had and I would literally hide in the corner at times. I could not bring myself ... When I grew up I didn't know anybody of power, influence, or with money. And even if I did I wouldn't have dared ask them for anything and I would have wondered why they would've wanted to talk to me.

Well, one of the first eye­openers was Dale Carnegie's book 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' and I just started right at the beginning. Saying hello and smiling at people, and when I finally got out of myself and focused on these other people pretending that they could be my friend. Then I found out everybody was the same way and as a matter of fact, they've done research that shows 50% of us self­identify as shy.

Now we appear probably the same as you Joe, as extroverted because we're good with people but on the inside we're churning our guts going well what if they don't like me, or what if I don't ... what if I can't add value, or how do I go about talking to a stranger? Joe Polish: Right right, well, you know what's interesting, also, and let me see if I can articulate this in the right way.

A lot of people ask me how did you learn how to do this? Now certainly I've read "How to Win Friends and Influence People". I even went to a 12 week Dale Carnegie course when I was in my early 20's just trying to figure out just how to be better at life and business and connecting.

I was incredibly shy even going back to high school and stuff when I first started becoming interested in women. Asking a woman out was just gut­wrenching. I mean, it was just so incredibly anxiety provoking, and talking to people was extraordinarily difficult.

I always came from a place, though, where I really wanted to add value to people. I have a belief that I don't ask anyone to do anything for me if I can't add value first, and you've got an endorsement from Adam Grant, who I also know, who wrote the book "Give and Take", and I like the distinction between givers and takers and matchers and I tend to look at how I operate; and I would certainly put myself in that category of giving. I mean, I just wanted to be generous and you're pretty much the same way.

So, I think there's a tendency for people that may be like that to find it hard to even entertain that I should talk to this person about something or I should ask them for that. Do you find that to be true or is that different for other people? Judy Robinett:It is true and when I realized that everybody on the planet had problems ­ everybody ­ they also have solutions that you could add value. And people will say to me, well, how on earth do you add value to a billionaire and I now have ten in my Rolodex and probably the greatest gift is just listening and caring, like you I say be real and care about people but you can offer an information report. You can offer an introduction. There's many things that you can do, but when you realize that everybody on the planet has problems and it doesn't matter how big their bank roll is, if they live in Hawaii. They have goals, they have problems, they have issues and if you'd just be a little bit scrappy you can figure out how to add value to them. Joe Polish: Yeah, what do you mean by "scrappy"? Judy Robinett:Scrappy is resourceful. The critical resources are ... Let me shut this off. I thought I had everything shut off.

Joe Polish: No worries. Judy Robinett:So the critical resources are all attached to people and one of the reasons people don't connect the dots is they don't get creative, and I call it "be scrappy". There's a French word [00:10:22 brick ­ oh ­ lawn ­ ish] that means you never everything that you need at the right time, and so, I've always tried to be creative and figure out how can go over it, under it, through it or around it.

So being a little scrappy and creative helps. Joe Polish: Yeah well, Dean, I've got a bazillion questions as you can imagine since I love this whole subject matter. Dean Jackson: Oh yeah, but I've taken lots of good notes too. It was interesting when you were saying being scrappy, sometimes it's probably just a good start to just think that thought, and ask yourself that question. Well, how can I add value? Rather than focusing on well, what do I say or how do I approach somebody. Even just thinking the thought of being aware and paying attention to see well, what kind of things are they interested in. What's important to them?

Joe talks about that a lot in that 'Magic Rapport Formula". Be interested. Focus on what's important to them because that's what they're really interested in too. Judy Robinett:Absolutely. Dean Jackson: Mm­hmm (affirmative). Joe Polish: Yeah, what's really funny about learning techniques when it comes to ... I'm sure you guys have encountered this many times.

Where someone who really isn't ... their primary focus is not adding value to other people. They really want something and they kind of have a manipulative personality, and then you teach them a networking technique about how to add value and then they just don't come across as very authentic because it's like, well let me act like I'm genuinely, sincerely interested in this person and I want to add value but just long enough to give the illusion that I'm trying to bond with this person so I can ultimately just take what I can get.

Do you encounter that with certain people that are trying to learn from you, Judy, that are really ... their world really focuses not around creating value but really just about making the sale.

Where they're not genuinely interested in you and so they attempt to use the content and the wisdom that you describe in your book but it doesn't land in exactly the same way. They just come across as artificial. Do you experience that? Judy Robinett:I do a bit, and I try to be very conscientious. I don't let people like that into my network, and usually ... I mean we are really smart in our guts. Our intuition can usually tell us within, I think the research shows 15 seconds, if someone is genuine. It's that old saying, "trick me once my mistake,trick me twice ..."

You really need to listen carefully to what you feel, and I've thought about this. The word communication covers a lot of [inaudible 00:13:13] and in my past I used to think maybe I didn't communicate enough, or maybe they could use a little training. And then as you get further you realize you saw the tip of the iceberg. That they really are a bad actor. Joe Polish: Right, right. Yeah ... go ahead Dean. Dean Jackson: Thanks.

Deep down, like you said, reflectively we know that. Gerry Spence, he's got a great book called "How to Argue and Win Every Time" and he talks about how whenever we're encountering people it's like we have these invisible physic feelings that are going out and we're evaluating each other and we can immediately detect what he calls the thin plank of the counterfeit.

We're looking for cues that are authentic, that are real but we can detect the thin plank of the counterfeit. Those words have stuck with me. It sounds like what you're saying. Judy Robinett:Yeah, Maya Angelou told Oprah once, I read this in an article, when someone shows you who they are believe them the first time. Joe Polish: Right. Judy Robinett:And Oprah also says you learn to feel the feather on your cheek. If you don't get the feather you get the brick to the head, and if you don't get the brick the wall falls in. All of us get those bricks to the head, and I think as you get older you get a little wiser and hindsight is always perfect and so the trick is to figure out some of those yellow flags ahead of time that elude to you've got a bad actor, or someone that lacks gravitas or someone that lacks character. Joe Polish: Yeah, right, and the reason that I even brought that subject matter up is that I do believe to a large degree, that tigers can change their stripes.

Not real tigers but I mean, human beings. It's the metaphor, but I've seen it happen a lot of times and when you're talking about everyone has problems. I think one of the greatest relationship building training that I went through was literally being a drug addict. Having to get treatment, sitting in 12 step groups and looking at people from all walks of life. High status, low status, rich, famous, to homeless. All stages of life and seeing people in a broken state. Me being in a broken state, and realizing that every human being has problems and just because you have a lot of money doesn't mean your life is not completely messed up. And so, it allowed me, one, to relate in a lot of ways. Secondly, I've seen people that due to circumstances, desperation where they've had stages of being incredibly generous and caring to being incredibly manipulative and selfish and ruthless, and I believe finding the way to get to a connected place.

Connecting is not just about you're going to make money and have a great network. I literally think it goes to a much deeper spiritual level and connecting with the core of who you are and what you represent and what you care about, and I believe people can become genuinely better human beings and I think that comes through helping others.

And you even elude to this in your book. I mean you tell the story about, oh boy it's towards the end of the intro where you asked ... the story about the Keynes Theory of Economics where the person said there's two ways to make money in the world. The first way is to go off by yourself and live off the land, but the easier way is to make money from commerce and trade where people live in cities and so when you tried to do it all alone it's a much different place.

Again, the reason I brought it up is I would like to influence as much as humanly possible to the people listening to this that connecting is one of not only the best ways to further your life and your business ambitions, but I also think it's one of the greatest ways to just really develop yourself as a human being.

Judy Robinett:Absolutely, and it is all about creating. It's creating for the good of humanity, for the world, and much of that is through economics and through business but you're absolutely right. Joe Polish: Yeah, well let's ask you. Again, I'll reference your book a lot but one of the things that you teach in there is how to think strategically about developing relationships so that you can leverage your time and your efforts effectively. So how does one think about this subject? Judy Robinett:Well, people intuitively know that your network equals your net worth, and everybody does but what I find is that most people are in the wrong room.

They're going to events that are a waste of time. They're not working the network they all ready have. They're focusing on quantity instead of quality, and they don't have a simple system, and so I do say think about just like you would a business.

You need to focus on your goals, your problems, your dreams. So, develop a network. Plan. Who do you need to know and how can you meet them?

There is no lack of critical resources in the world, and this is something that took me a while to figure out. There's seven billion people on this planet. Credit Suisse last night on Bloomberg said they estimate global wealth by 2019 to be 376 trillion dollars. There's countless opportunities. Information is doubling every six months and now we've put it in a class. Those are all the things that we need to create.

But what I find is people are not strategic, and Madeleine Albright, I heard her at the World Economic Forum in New York a couple years ago and Charlie Rose was interviewing her and it was about women and why haven't they achieved greater success and power and she made an interesting comment, and she said "women make friends, they don't network." And the distinction there is not being strategic, and if you really think about what is the goal, what is the dream, what is the problem, and then what person because all of those resources are attached to human beings. Where are they? Joe Polish: Right, right. Well, that's a very optimistic view of where the world is actually going. Do you believe that ... I mean, how would consider yourself when it comes to your perspective on abundance versus scarcity? Because I think, even as it relates to sharing your network, which again, you talk about in your book. Some people keep it close to them and they feel like it's a limited supply, it's a limited resource but you also say the way that your network expands is you actually use it.

I cannot tell you how quick I am to say if someone that I know, that I trust, that I know, like, and trust needs something my immediate thing is show value on the spot. Make a connection as quick as humanly possible without worrying about am I going to make sure I protect it so I get my percentage, but I think a lot of that comes from having a very abundant perspective on the world and where the world is going in spite of all the problems. How would you explain it? Judy Robinett:Absolutely, absolutely. I think we're in a perfect storm. I mean I'm so thrilled with Crowd Funding and how countries have adopted this even before the U.S. and I think the money that's now available, our access to information, part of this is web 2.0, part of it is the democratization of capital, having access to all the information. I think it's just tremendous, and almost every day someone contacts me that are developing a platform to do high end

introductions, kind of a step above LinkedIn. So I very much, like you, believe in abundance and I almost think it's a crime or a sin if you don't help and you can. I mean, as you know it often takes five minutes to pick up the phone and make an introduction that can radically change somebody's life and I often think people don't sit and think about the resources that they have available to them and how they might do the one plus one that equals a five. Joe Polish: Yeah. Judy Robinett:Recently I was introduced to a man named Brent Walker and he has these four redhead daughters and they're going to become famous in country and western music and it's called the Red Haired Express, and I was talking to him about his marketing and he's going to do a Crowd Funding platform and I said how would you like to talk to Donny Osmond? I set that up in five minutes. His life is changed. And you can do that, and the more you do that, the more you share your connections, the more valuable you are to everybody and you become the go­getter. Joe Polish: Love it. Love it. Dean Jackson: You say five minutes, I've seen ... Joe Polish springs to action in five seconds. It is funny to see. Judy Robinett:Yeah, I'll bet. Dean Jackson: When we're in the presence of it, that iPhone is immediately out, there's immediately the scrolling and a phone call is made. It's just like this Rolodex in his head that he knows exactly and what this person needs to be connected to and it happens instantly.

Even if it's ... Yeah, and not even ... I've seen it happen in so many different situations so it's always ... it's incredible to witness, even, having a good example of it. Joe Polish: Thanks. Thank you, Dean. It's a great line too, Judy, it takes five minutes where you can make an introduction that can radically change a person's life. That is true and that's why it's more than just a phone number or video or an audio, or an email.

It's really just linking people together, and through that link, it can create a collaboration that could reach an opportunity. It could create something that could have someone that has a life­threatening disease or illness.

I mean there's so many personal and professional ways that connecting becomes so powerful. So, what I'd like to do is you talk about power connectors as the most potent links in any network.

First off I'd like you to define, what are power connectors and how do they connect to the network? Judy Robinett:So, what I call power connectors is Joe, like you and I. We believe in abundance, we believe in helping others. But we know the power of an introduction to a quality person, or information, trends and ideas.

And, we typically have a massive Rolodex much bigger than most people and we do know people of wealth, of influence, wisdom. Money, I had a gentleman call me last year that was looking to invest a billion dollars, and we know that everyone has roadblocks and what we can do with it and so what happens is if you look at the research that's been done on relationships, we're kind of a hub.

So, more people connect to us than anybody else and so, the research shows instead of you're one person away from [inaudible 00:24:49]. You're usually one person away.

Joe Polish: Right, right. No, this is true. It is true. So, how much effort did it take you, because I'm trying to think of, this comes so naturally for me that I'm trying to be devil's advocate to a degree and think through for the people listening to this right now.

How difficult was it for you to get to this stage to develop these amazing relationships that you have?

For me, I just am constantly connecting with great people all the time. But it's also something that I enjoy. It's a skill that I didn't start out with but I developed and so I just want to give some perspective because you teach people how to do this. Judy Robinett:Yeah so much like you it's a skill that I developed over time, and it became much fun. I would take it as a challenge to see somebody getting out of a car and figure out some way to engage them in a conversation and found out that nobody was mean, nasty, and now I even interrupt strangers at the table at Barnes & Noble.

I recall I was in relaxing one night and I hear these two gentleman behind me and they're talking about their start­up and I love start­ups, and they know what they're doing. They've pivoted a couple of times on their business model, have started making money, but then they start talking about investing with angels or [inaudible 00:26:17] and boy howdy do they have it wrong.

Well, I can't help myself. I turn around and go excuse me let me just give you a little bit of help here. I'm an angel investor and I spent 20 minutes with them. They took notes and thanked me profusely and at the end the one guy said well what are you doing? I said well, I'm writing this book and he said what's it about? And I told him and he said I'm one of the VP's at Overstock.com. Would it help to have your book on our website? We get 15 million hits a month.

Now when I called McGraw­Hill they about fell out of their chair. They're like how do you do this? And so, it was very natural for me but I can tell you years ago when I lived in a town of 30 thousand people and I worked for one of these Fortune 300 companies, my neighbor was a Senator. I ended up being put on the board of directors of our local hospital. I was asked to write a weekly column on business ethics and leadership for the newspaper and I found out by accident how powerful it was to have Senators and a Governor and access to the media, politics, money, and that is where I came up with this notions of ecosystems and surrounding yourself strategically so that you could make things happen.

And then when I moved to Salt Lake I did the same thing, and then I took it global. Joe Polish: Wow, that's awesome. When you go back to talking to the people that you met in the bookstore and you really made that connection. I really do that sort of stuff a lot. Whenever I hear someone expressing the need or solution.

I mean, I have these antennas that just go to that sort of stuff. Now, the flipside of that is which is going to lead up to my next question, which is something that your book is based on where you create power circles and you have the five plus 50 plus 100 power circles which I want to have you describe what that is and how someone can start using this.

Before leaning to that, how do you actually manage your time? I mean, I know that's part of the process but I want to talk about the dark side of trying to overly connect with everyone is there's billions of people on the planet. And there's people everywhere that have problems, and how do you pick and choose? I mean, how do you manage it all?

Judy Robinett:Well, I'm careful with my time. I focus on quality people not quantity. These people that have a gazillion people on Facebook or LinkedIn. Lots of luck. Those people will never have your back and have your future. And so, this is part of my secret sauce. It's known as Dunford's Law of 150, that groups fall apart after it reaches 150. But, on a daily level I just do a few behaviors that will only take a few minutes. I make it a point of talking to strangers.

Research shows we only talk to strangers two to three percent of the time, and really? That's where the gold is. I gave a speech in D.C., I'd been at the FTC and The White House. I'm in the bathroom brushing my teeth at Ronald Reagan airport, and there's a woman standing next to me also brushing her teeth that has the most elegant raincoat, and I just comment on the raincoat, strike up a conversation with her and she said we should stay in touch, and she handed me her business card.

When I got home I discovered it was Dr. Rita Clark, she's the chair of the national corporate directors association. 25 thousand of the world's public directors.

Well since then she's shared information, we've shared contacts and there's a perfect example of I just make it a point if I see something I will often compliment people because so few people do, or I'll ask a question. And people can opt in or opt out, it doesn't matter but if you just do a few little things a day in a very simple system.

You don't have to have the CRM. I've met people that are tracking 40 thousands contacts, and I'll say to them how many of those people have helped change your life? And it's minimal, and I have a couple of rules. I used to say I'd only let people in my network that had a good head, a good heart, and a good gut. And I finally boiled it down to is this person an Oprah or a Martha Stewart?

Now, they're both billionaires. They're very good at executing their vision, but if I had to trust one with my back and my future it would be Oprah because that's kind of where my values are. So, you don't want everybody out there. You want people that will help you, be there for you, like you said know, like you, trust you. And so you're careful and you're strategic. You don't have time to solve the world's problems, and that's part of Adam Grant's book on give and take.

You can give, give, give and you're depleted and you haven't gone anywhere. Dean Jackson: Mm­hmm (affirmative). Joe Polish: Right, right. Yeah, I have a friend named Martin Howey who, when he had stage four cancer and he was talking at my office, he came in and just shared some thoughts and he was talking about quotes, and I've mentioned this several times on the podcast where the Zig Ziglar quote of "you can have anything you want if you help enough other people get what they want." And he said, that's not always true because you can really work really hard helping other people get what they want and they won't do anything for you and so you have to be selective about how you go about doing that. And, there's a big difference versus just being generous. I mean, even take this podcast as an example. Me and Dean know that we have devoted literally several hundred hours to providing information to many people in the world that will never buy anything from us that we know are going to get value out of it but they might not be a right fit for the things that we actually sell.

And of course people, we can influence book sales, we can influence building our "brand" and who we are and that sort of thing and re­enforce our knowledge in the areas or

whatever other skills and capabilities that we bring on this podcast but in a lot of way I get a real kick out of just helping people. It's how you go about it though. I mean you can really hurt yourself by just trying to please everybody. Judy Robinett:Yeah. Joe Polish: And trying to be accessible and available to everyone and so I think it's very smart. So, let's talk about your methodology. Let's talk about power circles. Let's talk about the five plus 50 plus 100 power circles, so that people understand because I think it's very very smart the way that you've set this up and the way you describe it. Judy Robinett:Well, thank you and this, again, starts from it's called Dunford's Law and it shows that groups fall apart at 150. So, Roman armies were even grouped together in 150 or less. So, relationship science shows that if you do a circle and put a dot in the middle and that dots' you. You could go out, you could put five to 15 more dots around you, and this is your inner circle of your family and your very close friends. The next circle out, I determined, I call my vital 50, and these are strategic relationships that are going to help you in your life, and then the next one out is 100 and I keep this as people that opt in. Possible keepers. Charlie Monger once said out of 100 people he meets there's five he will keep, could live without. There's 20 he never wants to see again as long as he lives. Joe Polish: Oh wow. Judy Robinett:The other 75 are wait and see, and so you can't really manage ... I mean, some people may have gifted memories but really, I can certainly get most things done with 25 to 50 people and I bet you guys can too.

And the problem ... so anyway that's where the five, 50, 100, came from is just trying to come up with a system that is simple. That you realized you don't have to spend two hours a day doing this. Joe Polish: How do you interact with them? And again, I want to set the stage and really recommend everyone pick up a copy of the book because it's a blueprint on how you do this. I would like to give people an idea of how you interact with these 150 relationships. Judy Robinett:Well, your close friends and family. You usually see them daily or weekly and the first thing that I ask people to do is to map this out. I mean, after you get your dots on the piece of paper write who they are and what is the relationship.

Second thing I have people do is fill in the holes. Now what you usually find is people are really good at the friends. Close friends, family on the vital 50 it's usually people that share the same passions. Whether it's a church, not for profits or in their own business, but it is not wide robust and deep. And by robust I mean people will return your phone call, they'll do a favor for you, they'll get back to you the same day. By deep means influenced. People are gravitas of power that can do something for you, and wide is both geographic and across different verticals, if you would, or ecosystems. So, that if you need somebody in government or politics or you need somebody legal that you can go to those, and what most people have is when they're looking at their vital 50 they've got a lot of holes. Most of the people are just like them which really limits the opportunities they have. Joe Polish: Right, right, so Dean what are your thoughts because I, again, I can ask Judy questions for the next week.

Dean Jackson: Yeah, one of the things I was thinking about when you were talking about this circle here. Do you set up different categories, like different sets of 150 or are you talking about just one 150, because you think like, we have different types of relationships. Judy Robinett:Yeah, so I tell people to start with this. It's 150, and some people, again, are more adept and they have much broader and deeper ... they estimate most people know from 500 to a thousand people.

The program that I recommend that people use is VIP Orbit and it's by Mike Mouni. He's the founder of Act Software. I think sold that for 48 million and did this app. It's free for your iPhone, and you literally can put people in orbits and you can label it however you want.

These are my media people, these are VC funding people. Joe Polish: Right. Judy Robinett:The picture pops up, you can track emails with them. It's a very simple thing to do.

And you asked me how I interact with these people so the 25 to 50 strategic people, I try to get something out to them every week and certainly not longer than every two weeks. But again, with VIP Orbit I can just find [inaudible 00:37:33] book or the latest stats on private equity deals that I think would be valuable for this group of people and hit send and it goes to them individually so that they know that I'm thinking about them because I am. Dean Jackson: Because I am, that's great. Joe Polish: We have a new Genius Network app also that we have, and I'll have to check out VIP Orbit because I have obviously not looked at that. Dean Jackson: Yeah. Joe Polish: Which sounds really cool. So thank you for that tip.

Let's talk about something you mention in the book, find and enter the right ecosystem that will give you access to the people that you need to get to know. What do you mean by that? What is that? Judy Robinett:Yeah, Aristotle said we're social creatures so we flock. And we flock in business, we flock by churches, by not for profits. I mean, if you think about business, every industry is surrounded by key service players. Accounting, legal, media, and then each of these industries, typically, is specialized by a niche and size and geography.

And I'll just use the example of an alternative asset class. People call me weekly looking for funding and most of these people end up in the wrong room. They're looking for love in all the wrong places and they've not done the research. So in this ecosystem, certainly is friends and family at 60 billion. Crowd Funding will move that to 300 billion. Next up is angels who funds 90% of the high growth. There's 300 of those groups. And corporate VC's, 870 of them. Number one is Intel. I sit on the board of Illuminate with Ken Elefant. They're number one in their investments and ROI.

But people don't understand that this is an ecosystem and there's different rooms, and so often I'll meet people and they literally are in the wrong room, and this is true with funding. VC's will [inaudible 00:39:24] at 95% of the people pitching to them are in the wrong room.

Well, I look at ecosystems as you've got your friends and family, your passion, your interest. Third one is your career and your profession. If your network is just limited to that you have really limited your opportunities.

One of my favorite quotes is "there's too much for any man to know much anymore." So, the next ecosystem is government and politics, finance, then media, and then your industry and then finally, just your community, and you need to be aware of these and do some research so that you get in the right room. So you can get to the right person. I mean, people know what just the right connection would do for them but they usually don't know how to get there. Joe Polish: Yeah, well how do you reach? Because one of the biggest questions that I get all the time is how do you meet someone like Ariana Huffington? How do you become friends with someone like Richard Branson and they see all of these people, and I think they ... Well how do you get there? Well, you do it by creating value. You do it by having a skillset that is interesting to them. You do it by spending time developing relationships like real relationships. It's not some sort of tactic I can tell someone well, you send them this really clever postcard. It goes way beyond that sort of stuff so you actually teach people how to get to unreachable people quickly and effectively. How do you do that? Judy Robinett:Well, you mentioned Ariana. The first time I met her was at a conference that we were both speaking at in Calfornia. The second way you do that is you join powerful organizations.

I often tell the story about my friend Byron who moved to Salt Lake City, Utah. He's black and he's gay so he's not the typical white, LDS fellow, and he was hired by a bank to manage private loans and in less than two years he has out done everybody.

I said to him one day, Byron how on earth did you move to this town and get so interspersed in these networks of high network people? And he just looked at me, smiled, and he said I joined the symphony. That's where the people with the money go. So one of the things I tell people is join a powerful organization.

The second one is volunteer with political organizations. So, I volunteered, I was actually asked to be on the Governer's finance committee and you think about where the people with gravitas money, influence, or whatever it is you need, where are they hanging out? If you're an entrepreneur the millionaires, the billionaires don't want their money sitting in the bank getting a 2.3% interest and usually negative with taxes.

They're looking for deals. They want that 27% ROI annually, and where do they hang out? They hang out with angels, they hang out at pitch events. There's a thousand incubators in the United States, so you think about who's your who. Who do you need to know and how can you get to them. There's always a way to get to them.

One of my favorites is I was on a [inaudible 00:42:44] with Mark Cuban in Washington D.C., and I thought to myself wow, wouldn't it be great if I could get Mark to endorse my book.

Well, Mark was busy and I'd worked on one of his start­ups with him and then I thought well, I'll just go to Mark Burnett. Well, I don't know Mark Burnett, and I mentioned it to two or three people in my network.

Well, it turns out somebody did know someone who was going to have dinner with him. So I said what is his problem? Well I found out his problem was that he and his wife had just spent 15 million on the movie Son of God and they were concerned about marketing. How they were going to get this marketed, and I did some homework, figured out how that might work. I then found out from another friend in Park City that Mark was going to be at

Sundance and screening his movie Son of God. And, so I called and said I'd like to meet with Mark would you ask, tell him I know how to do A, B, and C, only take 15 minutes.

I get an email from Mark Burnett. We're scheduled for dinner at Ruth Chris steakhouse. I go meet him. I said Mark think about doing blah blah, blah blah, blah blah. Well, 20 minutes into it he said who are you? And he said what could I do to help you? And he indeed endorsed my book.

And then I said I'd really love to get my book to Oprah and he said she's a close friend. So, I didn't know him at all but I figured out ... I thought about what problem can I help him with? Where is he going in life? And all of these people like we've talked about do have problems, or they goals, or they're needing to get the right information, connection, ideas, and so here's where being scrappy, being creative, thinking of something and then asking. I mean that's always a tough one for most people, is learning to ask.

And I was nervous when I met him but it was just very fun and we still email. Joe Polish: Yep, there you go. And you put ... it's the whole Wayne Gretzky thing. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take so part of it is always be willing to take those shots and sometimes you're prepared physically, psychologically. Other times you're scared. But you're either moving stiff or you're scared moving sometimes. Or you're scared stiff or you're moving. You're moving. That doesn't mean you're always going to feel extraordinarily comfortable but I also remember early on.

I heard it somewhere, read it somewhere, do something every day that scares you and that's not meaning take dangerous things like doing extreme sports or putting yourself in physical danger.

It's just really constantly challenging your comfort zone, and I mean, even when you said I start talking to people at lines. When you first start this just even saying hello to someone will be difficult for some people depending on their shyness level. Judy Robinett:Yeah. Joe Polish: Because a lot of places it's not, but that's how you do it and the more you just keep doing that, you wake up one day.

It's the whole grain of sand analogy that you use in your book. Eventually you're moving buckets.

You also talk about getting the contact information. Get the contact information for almost anyone in 30 seconds or less. Can you talk about that? I think that'd be really valuable for people to hear. Judy Robinett:So, I often will thing about if I go to a conference and I will do some research if there's two to three people that I think I'd really like to meet, that are high level, so I will think of something that is important to say.

Are you still there? Joe Polish: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Dean Jackson: Yeah. Judy Robinett:Okay. I'm hearing funny little sounds. I'm hearing funny ... Okay. Joe Polish: Yeah, that was Dean getting cut off because I think Dean is just not as connected as me and you. Dean Jackson: I'm here.

Joe Polish: Okay. Judy Robinett:An example is Mark Cuban. So I was asked to be on this panel. I was told he might be there. I didn't expect him to be there.

Well, I walk into my panel and there's Mark Cuban and I think oh my gosh here's my one chance to be connected to Mark Cuban and I better figure out how I could say something that would make me stand out a bit and I listened for the perfect opportunity, and at one point he sits back like you see him on Shark Tank, and he has his hands up like a church steeple saying how much he listens.

And I look down, and I go Mark what about that six million dollar motorcycle movie deal that you instantly went I'm out. And he looked down at me and he said well, that was a scam.

Well, then I took out my business card and I wrote on the back Mark I know one of your companies, one of your start­up companies you've invested in Salt Lake. I'm willing to help that company with distribution by introducing them to Jeremy Andrews, CEO of Skull Candy.

By the time I got home that individual had called me on the phone saying he'd got an email from Mark saying who on earth is Judy Robinett? So, it was kind of creating value on the go. Realizing I needed to get his attention. But honestly, if you just say hello and you focus on the other person and you think that there's some chemistry? You'll end up with their contact information very quickly, and most people now don't even carry business cards. They just say find me on LinkedIn, and then you make it a point of following up very quickly. You make sure you reference something that you enjoyed talking to them about. If you've got some information you can share, share it, or if you can make an introduction that these people are keepers. Joe Polish: Yeah that's great. That is great. Well, you also ... Let me see what I would ask you next. You say that people should start with the three golden questions. Go over that. What they are, and why do they work so well. Judy Robinett:These questions, it took me years and years to boil it down to three. The first one is how may I help you.

Now, some people when you say that to them they're like a deer in headlights, they're so shocked that somebody would even offer to help them. But that one is very helpful. It shows people, not only that you're generous but that you're not a narcissistic or a sociopath.

The second one is what other ideas do you have for me? I mean, after you've shared your story. What other ideas do you have for me, and brainstorm for a minute with them.

And, the third one is who else do you know I should talk to, and you will literally see people tilt their heads and say you should probably talk to Joe Smith, and what happens is often times people aren't as good at connecting the dots but if you ask then you see the little Rolodex in their head spinning or they will come up with ideas. And I think it's so powerful. It allows you to network up and out so you're literally curating out of their 600 to a thousand people, just the right people for your situation and in context. In context with the right information.

Joe Polish: There's a subtle distinction in what you said because your question is who else do you think I should be talking to. Which is, that triggers somebody's Rolodex if you ask them who else, you're asking them to search for a specific person.

And a lot of times people will ask do you know anybody else I should talk to which is a completely different question.

Yeah, it's really interesting how when you specifically ask it, who else, that the preset position is that there is somebody. So our minds automatically go searching like that. Judy Robinett:Yeah. Joe Polish: It's pretty interesting the psychology. Judy Robinett:Yeah, and research shows that our influence is limited to a friend of a friend of a friend.

Well, out there at that third level is where those weak links are. So, all your friends and family, and your industry, career, passion, those people in your network. They all know the same people. They all have the same opportunities. It's when you get out there to the third level.

Now, what's interesting is, and I would challenge you each to do this. If you write down your 25 people and you go out and approach them and say this is what we're doing for the Genius Network. We've got this new app out. This new piece of software. What do you think? Who else do you think I should talk to about this? You'll be absolutely amazed. Now, most people don't mind their network. So Mike Youni, founder of Act Software was introduced to me by my agent Wendy Teller. Who thought maybe there was something we could do together. So, Mike flew up here from Texas and we're talking and I go Mike I've never heard of VIP Orbit. What are you doing for marketing and how did you rank number one? And he tells me a little bit and then he says, Judy, what I would give if I could just get in Success Magazine. I said Mike, when you go home I want you to call Wendy, who you've known for years and years and years. One of her good friends is Darren Hardy founder and owner of Success Magazine.

His mouth dropped. He almost fell off his chair. Now, he had access to this person for years. Joe Polish: And didn't know it. Judy Robinett:But, he didn't know who his network all ready had in their networks. Who is that friend of a friend of a friend, but I'm telling you there is gold in your network and everybody's all ready got one. So I often people just get out Post­It Notes, do something so that you can visually look at who are those 25 to 50 people.

Go talk to them. Engage them in a conversation. Tell them what you're up to. Ask them for ideas. Who else should you talk to. It will change your life. Joe Polish: Yep, totally. It's so funny speaking of Darren Hardy, I mean I'm helping him with his new book right now and I had dinner with him like a week and a half ago. It's a small world if you are at least in the connection world.

Although it's a very big world and there's a lot of people out there and you'd be surprised how there's this web that connects so many things once you get clear on who you want to be aligned with, and how you go about doing it.

You have this really clever thing of seeding any conversation with information about you and your interest so that people will remember you without feeling that they've been sold. Can you talk about that? Judy Robinett:I always try to be a little bit humble and vulnerable when I meet people. It's not beyond me to say I live in Utah. I'm a cross between Utah Mormon Port and Ms. West Virginia Southern Baptist who recently found out my last name is Kwan so I'm probably Jewish.

And, lots of luck finding somebody else who has that story, and that one happens to be very true. And so I find if you have a little bit of vulnerability, you're humble and you really are real, you tell people who you are, that then that resonates with them and they go I want ... this person is a keeper for my network. I want this person in my network, and you find something that's relevant. I mean if it's somebody that is in the funding world, I mean I've recently, I emailed Clayde Mask when I found out he was going to do an IPO and suggested that it would be wise for him to talk to Jeremy Andrews who took Skull Candy through their IPO and that happened. So just think of things that could be relevant and be helpful and this is, again, the thing about being scrappy, and will these people remember you? Of course. You went out of your way to help them in that five minute phone call. Joe Polish: There you go, and funnily enough you know this, Judy, but I'm the second InfusionSoft customer. Judy Robinett:Oh my gosh. Joe Polish: Yeah, so Clayde is in my Genius Network group, my 25K group, and I'm an investor in the company too. Judy Robinett:Well that's good. Joe Polish: Yeah, they're doing­­ Dean Jackson: Customer number two. Joe Polish: Yeah, we even have an interview with them on video. Dean Jackson: Yeah. Joe Polish: With the founders of InfusionSoft, on I Love Marketing which is funny. So, let me ask you about what you think about your perspective on social media and how do you use it and what are the right ways to make it effective, and how do you see some people just completely wasting their time falling in love with how many relationships they have but they don't really lead them to where they want to go. Judy Robinett:Yeah, so this is a funny story.

So, two years ago my adopted son Preston said to me you have got to start tweeting, and I looked at him and I said 144 characters. What do I say? I'm sitting on the toilet? I mean, really? That's what I said to him.

And I started tweeting, and I found out what I loved was wisdom and sharing knowledge and then pretty soon I got it.

I had been on LinkedIn. Now the research shows that the most important thing for business professionals is LinkedIn, and the research was I think 41% saw significant gains, results from their LinkedIn.

But I'll tell you, on Twitter, I started following a woman who was really an expert at social media and marketing. Jennifer Abernathy who is the author three books. Really liked her and I called her one day on the phone and I said Jennifer I'm going to be meeting with

Gina Davis in Park City. She needs some help with social media. Would you like to fly out and help? Well, of course. Who would not want to meet Gina Davis? By the way she's six foot two and she wears four inch heels, and so I met this woman, and I've hired her now to do social media for me and I met her on Twitter.

Now LinkedIn, just this week, I had a gentleman who's an official at the United Nations in New York. A pretty high official who'd read my book and reached out and said could we break bread on your next trip to New York?

So, I think it's pretty profound. I don't believe in wasting tonnes and tonnes of time because you will, if you follow Neal Patel Quick Sprout, you find that many of the older just get out there and share content doesn't work. You've got to build self funnels. There's different things that you have to do. But I certainly do believe that it's important because it's a way that you can cast a very broad net, and you'd find people that you'd never be able to find, and you can tell from their tweets and their profile that this is probably a good person. I'm going to reach out to them. Joe Polish: Mm­hmm (affirmative), right, right. I want to ... This will be kind of an aside and off the subject of connecting and networking, maybe.

Since you have such an expertise in Crowd Funding I would love to ... we don't have a tremendous amount of time but I'd love to have you just share some wisdom and your thoughts of what Crowd Funding is to you. How would you define it, and why are you so excited about it, because that's certainly where you spend a lot of your world as it relates to you being an advisor and an investor, and a connector. Judy Robinett:Yeah, so Crowd Funding is the democratization of capital and I'm absolutely thrilled. For years and years and years women weren't allowed inside the doors of VC's, neither were minorities.

This really levels the playing field. I think this year we'll have two billion in donations, campaign donations.

Jeff Hayes who's a dear friend has run six successful campaigns for his documentaries and a play, there's a young man in Provo. He'd invented a case for an iPad that turns into a mini computer. He couldn't get any of the local angel groups to invest in him and he did a campaign, raised a quarter of a million, and he hit three million that year in sales. Then the angels of course, wanted to invested, and recently I was in Bogata Columbia, helping them with their entrepreneurial ecosystem and I'm seeing the same thing worldwide. I mean, we're in a perfect storm between web 2.0 and globalization of not only information but having access to capital, and that's why I'm so bullish or optimistic because it's entrepreneurs! It's entrepreneurs that drive jobs that drive growth.

Now the important thing, and the book that I would recommend is, I think it's Walk Hub ... It's the handbook. I'll have to get it to you but it's a simple little book, and it has several hundred experiences. Good bad and ugly of doing crowd campaigns. But they found out that the average time it's 60 to 65 days that the most compelling thing to do of course is a short video, but the gating factor is your network.

Because if you don't get social proof with about 20% of your friends and family donating it's only then that strangers come, and the trick is they're not going to rockethub and indiegogo's platforms. They're going to places like Twitter. So in this book, and I think it's the

rockethub handbook. There's a gentleman in there and he's participated in 67 campaigns and where does he find them? He finds them on Twitter. Joe Polish: That's great. Dean Jackson: Interesting. Joe Polish: That's great. Yeah, it is a whole new world in what you can do and that's why obviously staying plugged in and knowing. I mean, the ability to pick up a phone call. The way I look at it is if I don't know the answer to something, and in most areas of life I don't know the answers. But I do have a Genius Network, and through that network that I develop and I nurture and I take of it the same way that you would take care of a garden that's flourishing, is I water it. I nourish it, and I tend to it and you want to do the same thing with your network because you can get all of the answers and the solutions through that. Through those individuals, through those people and that's why I think this is such a critical subject.

Now I could, again, we could go for hours and hours on this but we're getting to the time so what I'd like to do, Judy, is ask you what should me and Dean have asked you about the importance of power connecting or anything related to this subject that we didn't that our listeners really need to hear. Judy Robinett:I think we've probably covered about everything. The one thing besides joining a powerful group, I would tell you is, probably not attend most of the networking groups that you belong to and make sure that, in any of these groups there needs to be people that are smarter than you or they have critical resources they could offer you before you go. That you make sure that you're not in the wrong room, and also if you do a lot of ... if you do just some research on not only Genius Network. There's many other groups out there that can be very valuable. I often tell entrepreneurs they need to join the association of corporate growth which has mid tier deals. PE deals that they're looking for strategic partnerships, or customer acquisition to just think about other groups because your trajectory can greatly increase there.

And just to your point, often times people will call me and if they have a question I can't answer I'll send an email out to ten people in my network. I will always get an answer. It's never from the person that I thought. Joe Polish: Yep, yep. There you go. Just putting it out there is the way that ... It's like a boomerang though I mean, a lot of this has to do with karma too. I have learned that be nice to the people you meet on the way up, they're the same people you meet on the way down and if you're nice to everyone the chances of you going down are less likely, because you have developed the support structure and you build it one brick at a time and you get to the point where as you do that sometimes it becomes incredibly leveragable. I mean, I can literally, every day I talk to people that a lot of people that are close to me are like, how do you meet these people and it's like, well, it's just an operating system and if you did this, this and this that's kind of how you do it. So, you've got a really great book and I highly encourage­­ Judy Robinett:Thank you. Joe Polish: To pick up a copy of it. What's the best way for people to learn more about you and connect with you Judy? Judy Robinett:I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter is just @JudyRobinett, I've got a website and you can email me Judy@judyrobinett.com and there's no E on the end of Robinett, and I'm happy to answer questions if people have any.

Joe Polish: Awesome, awesome, and Dean before we go to you for any famous last words or any final questions I just want to remind everyone if you want to hear my methodology, because I think it'll absolutely compliment­­ Dean Jackson: Oh yeah. Joe Polish: What we've talked about here with Judy is type in magic rapport into the search section of ilovemarketing.com and you can hear my magic rapport formula and I go through nine steps of what I do, how I connect with people, how I meet the people that I meet, how I interact with them and how I create value and you'll see a lot of alignment. And if you read Judy's book "How to be a Power Connector" it will just re­enforce this incredibly valuable skill, so anything from you Dean? Dean Jackson: Yeah, I think the common elements here. I mean your everything is completely resonant with what Judy said today. It's going to really amplify it but what's stuck out for me is how treating your network, treating your networking as your most valuable asset. I mean, I wrote down early on, Judy, when you said "nothing happens without people" and you really think about that that everything ... So often we get so insulated in our world just thinking about, inwardly thinking. Working on their software, working on their product or their business without really thinking about the, as a really proactive approach to treat networking and treat their network as an asset and I think that these, the strategies in your book are really going to give people a road map so I appreciate you taking the time to be with us. It's been wonderful. Judy Robinett:Thank you. Absolutely delightful. Joe Polish: Awesome. So again, thank you so much Judy. Judy Robinett. R­O­B­I­N­E­T­T, while it's fresh on your mind pick up a copy of her book, read it and please give us your comments on the section at ilovemarketing.com. If you're not currently subscribing to the I Love Marketing podcast then get your butt to iTunes and subscribe to it, or any other places where you can subscribe to our podcast and we'd love to hear your comments on how you're actually utilizing the strategies we talked about today and of course if you know someone that could benefit from becoming a better connector then share this episode with them and thank you.

So again, thank you Judy. Judy Robinett:Thank you.