freud meets jesus in heaven

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Freud Meets Jesus in Heaven:

The Final Analysis

John Rudman M.D.

Panna Publishing LLC

P.O Box 4141

Deerfield Beach, Fl 33442


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Copywrite 2007 by John Rudman M.D.

All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any

form or by any means, electronically or otherwise, without permission from the author.

Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data

Books in Print: USA Global

Rudman, John

Freud meets Jesus in Heaven:

The Final Analysis

ISBN: 978-0-615-15908-9

Cover Design: John Morris-Reihl- [email protected]

Published in the United States by:

Panna. Publishing LLC

The pursuit of the truth"

P.O Box 4141 Deerfield Beach, Fl 33442

Deerfield Beach, Florida 33442

WWW. PannaPublishingLLC

[email protected]

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Distributed through Lightening Source

1246 Hell Quaker Blvd.

La Vergne, TN 37088


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Author=s Note:

Why Freud? Why Jesus?

As far back as 80 years ago, Freudhad identified the

Aprimary factors@ responsible for inhibiting the progress of

humanity. He predicted that due to those basic issues ofhuman

nature: civilization would remain discontent and wars wereinevitable; Freud died, unable to solve the problem.

Despite Freud=s continuous insistence that his concepts

were valid-- they were not accepted and then disregarded--mainlydue to the pessimistic nature of his theory. As time passed, Freud=s

papers--revealing these Atruths@ of human nature--were almosttotally forgotten, and eventually buried in the literature: until now!

As to Jesus (during his ministry), he would often suggest tohis flock that understanding God=s willwould require exploring the

core of their beingtheir soul.

As an example, in the Gospel of Luke (17:21), he reminds

his followers: the Kingdom of God-->is within you.=

From the Gospel of Thomas: Jesus states, AHow miserable

is the body that depends on a body, how miserable is a soulthatdepends on these two.@

Unbeknownst to Jesus, perhaps in his own way, he wasstruggling with the same issue, as was Freud: how to changehuman nature.

This is a nonfiction book-- set in a fictional setting, in

Heaven. Its purpose is to face the truths of human nature; itsrelation to the soul, and how they relate to the plight of humanity;then, to offer a solution to these issues.

In retrospect, I began my own quest to understand themysteries of human behavior at age 17; my first book on thesubject was by Dr.Flanders Dunbar: Psychosomatic Medicine.


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This interest led me to seek a career in adult and then child

psychiatry. After many years of practicing and teaching the

principles of the profession, personal circumstances led me to the

spiritual program of Alcoholic Anonymous. Here is where all priorideas I had concerning the basis of human behavior and conflict,

began to change -- my spiritual journey began. I realized thathuman behavior was determined less by psychological events, andmore by spiritual ones.

I spent years in A.A, working on my willingness to

understand and face the truths concerning my relationship withGod. Nevertheless, despite my spiritual development, I knew ofFreud=s profound insights and believed that he was right, as to why

human behavior could never change.

Although the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous laid down

the foundations of my spirituality, they did not directly address thatbasic human plight-- the essential problems of the nature of man --something was missing. At that point, feeling somewhat frustrated,

it was suggested to me to try another spiritual program known asAA Course in Miracles. As it turned out, this is what I needed.

It was during my experience with AA Course in Miracles@that I actually began to get in touch with my soul. Much to myamazement, I recognized that it was a realentitywithin me-- this

changed everything!

As time passed, I continued to discover more about the

nature of the soul. My excitement grew, as I sensed that I hadcome upon some profound realities concerning the essence of ourexistence. I knew then, that I needed to maintain the basic spiritual

principles that I learned from the 12 steps, but to some extent, giveup much of the old psychological and psychiatric framework--I

forged ahead on my own.

After sometime, I understood why changing human nature

by discussion or interpretation was not possible-- as Freud hadlearned. I began to realize that the issues regarding humanbehavior, as well as our problems with God, could only be resolved

by truly understanding the workings of the soul (a genuinestructure); all the answers residedin the soul-- not the brain.


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For the purpose of brevity, I am shortening the complexity ofmy journey. What is important, is that the course I have been on,and the insights that I share in this book, were received through an

intuitive process, which for me, is just another way of saying-- they

came from God; I came to believe Albert Einstein, when he said,>All I need to know are God=s thoughts--the rest are details .


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Introduction

Freud and Jesus are in Heaven at the same time.According to the New Testament, Jesus ascended to Heaven 40days after his resurrection ("the Ascension").

Neither of them is aware of the other=s presence in Heaven,

nor that there is a plan for them to meet.

On the surface, it would appear that the conflicts and

behaviors of human beings during the time of Jesus (27-30 AD),were different from the problems brought to Freud almost 2000years later. Yet, as hard as we have tried, has humankind, during

those past years, sustained the practice of the "golden rule"?

Certainly, there have been enormous technological

advances, but did the basic "nature" of our species change? Havethe underlying ills of mankind, including man's inhumanity to man,improved over the last 2000 years? There were two world wars in

the 20th

Century; famine, genocide and terrorism continue into the21

stCentury.

Thus, could both men, in their own way, have been dealingwith the same underlying innate problems ofhuman nature; Freudapproaching them from a psychological standpoint, Jesus from a

spiritual one?

During his past life on earth, Sigmund Freud was a well-known physician--introducing us to the field of psychoanalysis.Perhaps his greatest contributions were: the significance of the

unconscious mind, and most importantly, the nature of our two

primal instincts. Freud indicated that these two human instinctshad opposingaims: the life instinct=s aim was to advance one=s

growth and aspirations; the other instinct=s intent was to inhibitanindividual=s development --as well as impeding the progress ofhumanity itself; Freudlaternamed this (more powerful) regressive

drive: the death instinct.(The label, deathinstinct,was often


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Freud=s method to relieve anxiety and modify behavior wasthrough psychoanalysis--a technique using the intellectto masterthe instincts. He was, in reality, trying to change >human nature.

Yesua, on the other hand, primarily conveyed his ideas and

messages to modify man=s conduct, through his sayings.

Closer examination of Yesua=s (Jesus) sayings would revealthat there were overtas well as convertmeanings to some of thesepronouncements. As an example, we could understand the

apparent meaning of the saying, "Love thy neighbor as thyself, or"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

However, most scholars agree that the enigmatic saying,

AThe Kingdom of God@ was the central message defining Yesua=s

mission. This type of saying appears 13 times in the Gospel of

Mark, 25 in Mathew, 6 in Luke, 6 in John and 13 in the Qdocuments.

For centuries, scholars, historians, theologians, etc., havereviewed the Gospels, searching for the "hidden" meaning behind

this adage. Opinions vary as to whether Yesua felt that he hadbrought the Kingdom with him, or that it would come in the future.However, the real mystery was: what was the hidden meaning

behind the idea of "Kingdom"? Some have interpreted the"Kingdom" to mean God's power, His will without opposition or Hisplan for creation. In any case, the idea of "Kingdom of God@ would

at least infer, a change for the better in human happenings.

More recently, contempory scholars have shed new light on Yesua's

mystical statement: Kingdom of God. These new interpretations suggestthat the saying should be viewed as a metaphor; this conceptionderived from several sources in the New Testament and the Gospel of

Thomas.

An example, from the Gospel of Luke, (17:21): thePharisees asked Yesua as to the meaning of the Kingdom of Godand Yesua replies, >The Kingdom of God does not come with your

careful observation, nor will people say 'Here it is', or 'There it is';because the Kingdom of God is >within you=.

In this passage, Yesua seems to be directing his flock awayfrom searching for spiritual wisdom outside us-- but rather to the

Areality@ of the "spirit" or "soul" within us.


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From the Gospel of Thomas: "How miserable is the body

that depends on a body, and how miserable is the Asoul@ that

depends on these two." Yesua appears to be suggesting that one

should notfocus on the body or the brain--but instead, on the spiritor soul. .

The idea of "soul" is so loosely bandied about that whenpeople use the term soul, we are not sure if they mean heart, brain, mind,or what? Most people will accept that they might have a soul, but any

discussion of it makes them uncomfortable. The soul is often thought ofas an amorphous, ephemeral -like object--as if it is made of air or wind.

We relegate it to "spirit"--having no substance or function; it is interestingto note that the word soul is derived from the Greek word: psyche.

Our basic knowledge of the soul is limited. The exploration

of it has been sparse, even within the Bible. Greek philosophers,such as Plato and Aristotle (Circa 400-350 BC), did investigate the

nature of the soul. Years later theologians, such as St. Augustineand St.Thomas Aquinas followed on their themes. However, to thisday, none of these examinations has led to a working knowledge of

the soul. In years past, we have focused our attention onunderstanding the human body, the brain, and recently thegenome. The time has come, whereby we can no longeravoidthe

nature and workings of the soul--for it is there that the answers tothe human dilemma reside.

At first glance, the concept of "soul" seems to lead us towardspirituality, a higher power or God; whereas Freud=s concept ofprimal Ainstincts@ implies nature and biology. Yet, the Creatorhas

brought these two souls together in Heaven.

When Freud meets Yesua he learns that Yesua was the

man renamed Jesus Christ in the Gospels. Freud must put asideall preconceived ideas or images of the Biblical persona of Jesus,

in order to proceed with the task before them. The challengebecomes more complicated, when Freud learns that Yesua hastotal amnesia regarding the three years of his ministry (circa 27 -

30AD).

Yesua at first remembers only his given name (Yesua) and

the first 26 years of his life; it appeared that he led an ordinarylifeduring those formative years. In addition, Yesua does not know


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that his life was written about in the Gospels--nor of the laterdevelopment of Christianity.

(However, the reason for God bringing these two men

together was not about examining the life of Yesua (Jesus Christ)or, for that matter, Sigmund Freud. The Creator has a purpose that

transcends any single individual: changing human nature.)

In the early phase of the dialogues, Freud also comes to

realize that he, like Yesua, had forgotten certain significant periodsof his own past life that would need to be recalled during their

conversations. Having been born into a post Darwinian era, Freudwas limited by his inability to transcend the ego and the brain--and, therefore, the broader scope of reality.

During the preparatory meetings, Freud would gradually beexposed to the nature and workings of the soul, which had not

been known to him during his past career. In the course of time,Freud begins to realize that there may be a Aspiritual@ answer tosolving the problems of the Aopposing instincts@ and therefore:

human nature.

As the meetings progress, Yesua begins to understand the

impact that the Aregressive instinct@ had on inhibiting the progressof human behavior. Because of this, the goals he may have had forreform were difficult to achieve during his ministry. Like Freud, he

begins to realize that there is an undiscovered spiritual explanationwithin the soulthatwill address all the issues-- and reshape thecourse of humanity.


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CONTENTS:

Chapter headings

Acknowledgments

Supplement 1 Pages 239-246Supplement 2 Pages 247-253

Diagrams 23 Pages 256-277

Chapter headings:

Chapter 1: The Meeting

Chapter 2: The Groundwork Begins

Chapter 3: The Nature of the Soul

Chapter 4: The Nirvana Instinct

Chapter 5: The Instinct to Move Creation Forward

Chapter 6: The Nirvana Instinct in Human Happenings

Chapter 7: Yesua=s (Jesus=) Mission and the AKingdom ofGod@.

Chapter 8: The Creation of the Soul

Chapter 9: The 7 Stages of the Creation of the Soul

Chapter 10: 1st

Stage of the Separation from God (5th

segment)AYe Must Be Born Again== (John 3:5)


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Chapter 11: The Primal Trauma and a Case ofSchizophrenia

Chapter 12: The Origin of the Fear of Death

AIf We Were Souls Then We Never Died@

Chapter 13: The Diagrams of God=s Domain:

Chapter 14: The Formula to Change Human Nature

Chapter 15: The Mystery of the Nirvana Instinct: By the

Grace of God

Chapter 16: Preparing to Leave the Domain -- (The 5th

Stage of Separation)

Chapter 17: Separation from the Domain of God: forever.

Chapter 18: The Soul Journey -- (The 6th

Stage ofSeparation)

Chapter 19: The 7th

Stage of the Creation-Separation-Experience

Chapter 20: How the Soul Makes Its Way to the SolarPlexus

Chapter 21: The Final Days in the Life of Yesua (Jesus)The Issue of Original Sin

Chapter 22: The Final Days (continued), and theResurrection.

Chapter 23: The Departure


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ACKNOWLEDGMENTS::

In a journey spanning many years, God puts many people in

your life for various reasons. Sometimes you understand why,

more often you just know that the person was there for a reason.:

Sigrid Taylor: Her loyalty and belief in me kept memotivated, enabling me to finish this book.

Nancy Deussen: Without her care and support, I couldnever have completed this journey: a friend, and the sister that I

never had.

Joanne Murphy: She always understood what the goal was:a good friend.

Mitch: My son. Always there for me, whenever I needed him.

Having him as a son has been a blessing; he also helped me editthis book.

Ken: My son, a kind, loving man, whose perceptivenessalways kept me on the right track. In his own way, I think he waswaiting for me to do this.

Andrea: My daughter. Her love and loyalty were the sourceof the inspiration for completing this book; I knew she always

believed in me.

Mother and father: Although deceased, they alwaysbelieved in me;I am grateful to them.

Jan Chim: An angel, who I felt came to me from God, at aspecial time in my life; I will always be grateful to her.

Grace Light: She always believed in me, sustaining myconfidence.

Ken Fields: A man who made sure that I got on the right

spiritual path.

David Benak: A kind and loving man who helped me througha difficult time.


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Robert Rand: A reliable friend, who always let me share myideas.

Fran Cooper: The mother of our children, who took care of

all of us

Bill Ryan: One of the few friends that truly understood me.

Linda Smith: After I met her, I began to write this book.

Yvonne Holcomb: A sweet soul, whose spirit was alwaysthere for me.

Pattie Blair : Always a friend; she understood.

Gary Deussen: A friend, who was always able to tolerateme.

Dave Needle: A friend with great compassion.

Joan Moyle: She kept me on my toes; she led me to AACourse in Miracles.@.

All my friends: John, Charles, Dennis, Sherri and many

others.


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CHAPTER 1 AThe Meeting@

Freud was waiting in a designated place, to meet someone--God had told him that much. As the man approached, he said,

"Hello, by any chance, are you Dr. Freud?"

"Yes," said Freud, "you were told to meet me here?"

"Yes I was," said the man.

"I'm Yesua."

Freud had never seen this man before.

"Please have a seat," said Freud, he was hesitant to ask

any questions.

Finally, Freud said, "Do you happen to know why you were

sent to meet me?"

"I was told that you were a well -known doctor before you

came to Heaven-- not too much more," replied Yesua.

Freud smiling, AThat=s one more thing than I know about

you."

"Well, there is something else," said Yesua. "There are

periods from the latter part of my past life that I can=t remember; I

was told that you had helped people with those kinds of problems.@

AI see,@ said Freud. AI have heard of others in Heaven who

had similar difficulties with their memories.@

Yesua, having just met Freud, was not ready to discuss thedetails of his problem.

Now, feeling a little more comfortable, Freud asked, "I am

not familiar with your name--maybe Hebrew?"

"Yes, doctor, it is," replied Yesua, Ait=s pronounced, Yshua."


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Freud, now more curious about this man, "How might you

spell Yesua? Oh, and please call me Sigmund."

Yesua is: Y-E-S-U-A."

Freud began to feel uneasy--he felt that God might havearranged this; but then decided that Yesua was probably just anold soul -- maybe from Biblical times-- just needing some support.

Certainly, as a psychoanalyst, he had helped people retrievechildhood memories, however, Yesua was referring to his past life,

one that he had lived before--this Freud had never done.

Then, Freud remembered something. Recently he had

heard while in Heaven that God had a Aspecial plan@ for solving the

problems of mankind. Freud had heard gossip like this,periodically, over the past 67 years, since he had arrived. These

rumors had always been vague and ultimately unfounded (not fromGod); he no longer paid attention to them.

However, this time, the idea of a special plan did not seemlike it was hearsay -- it was spelled out and made specific: Godwas about to reveal a formula designed to solve the problems of

human nature that had plagued humankind since the beginning oftime!

Freud quickly dismissed this rumor as he had done with theprior ones, returning his thoughts to this mystery man.

"Well, Yesua, we=ll get all this sorted out."

Yesua continued, "I have been asking folks questions on my

own, hoping someone might help me remember more. I spoke witha Jewish man, who reminded me that my name, Yesua, originally

came from the name Joshua, I may have forgotten that."

"Did he give you any more information?" asked Freud.

ANo, he didnt seem to want to discuss the topic any further,I wondered if he knew more? He seemed friendly enough,@

answered Yesua.


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Freud thought, what was that all about? He wondered if thisstranger knew something about this fellow, Yesua; and why wasthis man=s identity being kept from him? Any ideas, of who this man

Yesua might be, were fleeting and quickly removed from Freud=s

thoughts-- he was not quite ready to know.

Having been raised in a pious Jewish home, Freud hadsome familiarity with Hebrew history and the language. He thoughtfor a second and then said, AYes, I recall Joshua was a very

common Hebrew name from the Old Testament-- Joshua havingbeen the heroic figure who led the Hebrews from the Sinai desert

after Moses died. For hundreds of years, after the Exodus, parentswould name their children after Joshua, whose actual Hebrewname was "Yebosua."

(Freud remembered that centuries later, toward the end ofthe Millennium B.C, the name Yebosua was shortened to Yesua;

Yeboshua to Yesua-- a kind of nickname. The name became verypopular --parents took delight in naming their boys: Yesua.)

Yesua said, AI do remember some of the parts of the OldTestament; I remember as a youngster reading about Moses withmy father; things seem to go blanklater on in my past life.@

Freud nodded, still somewhat preoccupied and perplexedover the reason for the meeting.

Yesua noticed that Freud seemed Alost@ in thought; feelingsomewhat uncomfortable, he said, "Sigmund, do you think it is time

for us to leave?@

Freud nodded, indicating his agreement, however, still

somewhat pensive.

As their first meeting ended, they sensed that they weregoing to meet again; they bid each other a cordial goodbye andwent their own ways.

Freud, walking slowly, having just reviewed a brief period inJewish history, still had thoughts stirring in his mind. He remained

absorbed with the idea--Yesua was a common name among theJews.


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Then--it came to him! He had completely forgotten an oldHebrew text, whereby it was shown that the Hebrew name, Yesua,was translated into its English form of the name, i.e. Jesus. Sure,

there were many, named Yesua, at that time, but only one became --

Jesus Christ-- of the New Testament; of course--Jesus was a Jew. Atthat moment, he knew.

Freud turned to see Yesua, but he was already off in thedistance. He had just met Jesus! He decided not to think any further

about this, or why God had brought them together.


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CHAPTER 2 AThe Groundwork Begins@

Since the last meeting (during the interim period), the newsthat God would soon disclose a formula for solving the problems of

humankind, had grown in intensity. Freud, now, could not easilydismiss this as gossip, especially knowing who Yesua had been.

He began to think that Yesua might somehow be involved inthis plan; he wondered if Yesua had heard about it? Freud alsohoped that Yesua might have been informed (during the interlude)

that after he had died--an entire religion arose-- supposedly basedon his life.

In fact, God did asked Yesua to begin to read the Gospelsfrom the New Testament-- hoping that eventually it would help joghis forgotten memories; for, to some extent, he would be reading

about himself; Yesua, at first, did not realize why he was beingasked to do this.

However, as time passed, during this intervening period,God does inform Yesua that it was his Aspiritual journey@ that was

written about in the Gospels. He learns that it was those threeyears of his past life--his ministry--that he had put out of his mindand could not remember. In addition, Yesua is told that not only

were the Gospels written about him, but this had led to theformation of the new religion of Christianity.

Yesua=s first reaction upon learning of all this was one oftotal disbelief; he could still not remember any of the events fromthat period -- it was frightening and overwhelming.

However, as time passed during this hiatus, and with Godnearby, Yesua began to gradually relax and allow himself to adjust

to this newreality-- even though he could barelyrelate to it.


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The scriptures had created a new identityfor him--that of

Jesus Christ --one of which, at present, he could not relate to. He

would need to put all this aside for now and see what the Creator

wanted from him; he had accepted what he had been told, despiteit being foreign to him.

Finally, after hearing all this, God confirmed that He doeshave an imminent plan that will affect the future of human

happenings.

Freud was standing in front of a large gazebo-like structure,as he saw Yesua approaching. "Hello, how are you?" asked Freud,in an uncertain way--as he was not sure what his responsibility

might be for this day.

"Fine, Sigmund, I am glad to see you."

Freud waited, hoping that there would be a sign as to how toproceed.

As they entered the gazebo, Freud said, "I noticed youbrought a Bible with you.@

They then found a table and a bench and sat down. "Yes,@said Yesua, AI brought it along in case we needed it; I have spent

many hours reading it, since our last meeting.@

Freud felt a sense of relief, but still wondered to what extent

Yesua had been informed of all that happened after he had died.

Sensing that Freud seemed concerned about what to do, he

offered, ASigmund, I already know. I learned how my life waswritten about in the New TestamentGod told me this. However,

for now, I need to put all that aside--it has no real meaning to me.

AI see,@ said Freud, now feelingmore comfortable, AI am just

curious, has reading about yourself, had any effect?@

AWell, a few of the things I read had a vague familiarity, but

nothing I could actually remember. Most of the rest of what I readwas unfamiliar to me. However, God left me with no doubt that the


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writers of the Gospels were trying to recreate my life-- I did come tobeliefthat.@

Freud sensed that God would keep the trauma of Yesua =s

death, buried deep in his unconscious, at least for the time being.He supposed that less painful memories of his mission might be

allowed to return, slowly.

Freud sensed that Yesua had more to say. AWas there

anything else that you wanted to mention today,@ asked Freud?

AWell, Sigmund, there was one saying that Jesus usedrepeatedly: >the Kingdom of God, which did sound a little familiar--something I might have said. Sigmund, I am embarrassed to say,

that at this point-- I do not know what that saying means-- but I=m

going to think about it. Nevertheless, this inkling, did offer hopethat my memories might start to return. A

AYes, I am also hopeful,@ said Freud.

Unbeknownst to Freud the attention was about to turn to

him.

ASigmund, needless to say, I am grateful for your help. I am

content for now, with being Yesua, and pursuing what God has inmind for me; I will worry about all that other stuff later.@

Freud smiled, Its quite amazing how much has beenrevealed to you, in such a short amount of time.

AYes,@ said Yesua, AI am beginning to understand that thereis a reason for our meetings. There is some kind of a plan for me--for you too-- a purpose for both of us; have you begun to feel that

way?@

The question caught Freud off guard-- he began to feel

anxious -- he had not considered being involved with this specialplan. He thought that after helping Yesua, his job would be over; itwas Yesua who would be used to carry out God=s plan. Whatever,

this prescription or design was, to change human nature, he hadnot considered that he would be further involved.


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Yesua noticing Freud=s sudden discomfort said, AAre youO.K., Sigmund?@

Freud did not respond, he was lost in thought. He

remembered that he had spent his entire life trying to solve theproblems of human nature! His main hypothesis was that human

nature was controlled by two opposing primal instincts-- a lifeinstinct and a regressive (death) instinct-- the death instinct beingstronger.

Moments later, Freud had an intuitive thought: God must

have known about his theories-- maybe he too was being calledon; perhaps the blueprint was to be disclosed to both of them!

AYesua, were you trying to tell me that this formula is going

to be revealed to both of us?@

Yesua responded, AYes, I think so and that is why we werebrought together. Apparently, from what I have recently learned,neither of us could really change human behavior. I suspect that

God needs both of us to be here in Heaven, at the same time, inorder for Him to divulge the solution.

Although this had caught Freud by surprise, there was asense of excitement over the possibility of solving the problems hecould not solve during his lifetime.(He died, unable to modify the

death instinct.)

The groundwork had to be laid for the men. One could not

expect to receive a schema for altering the course of humanity,until they understood the fullextent of the issues involved. The

foundation for the plan would have to be developed, prior to

actually receiving the prescription.

Unbeknownst to them, the basis for modifying human naturewould be found within the soul; even the problem of the opposinginstincts would be played out within the soul. Thus, the nature and

workings of the soul would need to be graduallyrevealed to them.As was previously noted--both men tried to affect mans behavior--but the knowledge and functions of the soul were unknown, during

their respective lifetimes.


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To begin, such questions as: Where is the soul located inthe body? Is it separate from the body? What is the soul made of?Is our identity, our self, within the soul and not the brain? How was

the soul created? How does God keep in contact with the soul? Is

the soul, sometimes in conflict with its Creator? There were manymore questions that needed to be answered and understood..

As they parted for the day--enthusiasm became thepervasive mood.

CHAPTER 3 AThe Nature Of The Soul @

God did not need Yesua and Freud to sign a contract ---committing them to finish the job -- He trusted them withoutquestion. During the interim, they realized that the formula wouldbe unveiled through their ongoing conversations; the foundation for

the process required a fullappreciation of the nature of the soul.

For this occasion, they met on a bench in the fields of gold.It would be here that the remainder of their meetings would takeplace. Yesua, arriving first-- welcomed Freud with a smile and said,

AGood to see you my friend, I was glad to learn that we arecontinuing our talks, together.@

Neither of them was ready to speculate as to what theentire scope of their meetings might be, nor where they might lead,

however, they would the men stick to the topic, for today.

As the material for the day was revealed, it sometimes

would be difficult to determine how much of it was channeled toFreud during the session, or to what extent he had been given theinformation by God beforehand (during the interim period). In

either case, it was God who ultimately provided the wisdom for

them.

Freud began the dialogue, as he had learned that he was to

take the lead in today=s discussion. AYesua, you may already knowthat we are supposed to begin the exploration of the soul.@


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Yesua answered, AYes, it seems like that it may be our focus

for sometime.@

Freud began, AYesua, we human beings aresouls-- our self,our identity, is in our soul; I am a soul.

Yesua looked at Freud, AAh,@ said Yesua, Asince we havearrived here in Heaven, we might have guessed that.@

AYes, that would be proof of sorts,@ responded Freud.

During the later years of my life, people would describe what theycalled >out of body experiences. As an example, during anoperation on their brain, their soul would leave their body and

look down and observe their own body, as the operation

proceeded; I never paid any attention to these reports.

However, now, they make sense. Their soul, with the Aself@inside, had temporarily left the body. People who had thoseexperiences knew the reality; they knew that their identity was not

in their brain or body--but in their soul.@

"I understand,@ said Yesua, Aup here, the soul has left the

body behind entirely. We had to come to Heaven---without ourbrain--so it could be proven to us. We could not consider such anidea while we were still alive! Now you know who you are and I

know me--a no brainer."

They both laughed.

Freud jokingly, A If I had been lucky and had an out of bodyexperience , I could have figured all this out and would not have

had to wait until coming to Heaven to realize this.@

Freud continued, AWhen I say the self, or our identity, is inthe soul -- it might be helpful for me to try to define the concept of

Aself.

Yesua replied, AYes, this is all new to me; I never wouldhave been able to focus on this concept without your input.@

Freud stated, AThis is not easy for me either; I barelyapproached the subject of the selfduring my careerit was allabout the ego.


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To begin, the self is a structure that you can only sense

and experience-- you cannot touch it or palpate it. By tuning in, you

can draw your attention to it and acknowledge it. You know who

you are--you can go back to earlier times in your life and rememberyourself, so the Aself@ has continuity through time. A further

defining factor is its boundaries: when I meet you, I know myselffrom you; I know who I am and I am separate from you--I have aself, the me, or the AI am part..

AThat was quite helpful Sigmund, please continue.@

Freud went on, AThe soul is a tiny crystal and it is diamond-shaped and microscopic in size, nonetheless, it was right there in

my solar plexus all the time. It was in a perfect place to

communicate with the rest of my body, including my brain. Godcommunicates with the soul, and then the soul sends messages to

the body.@

ACould this be the link between the spiritual and thephysical?@ asked Yesua.

AYes,@ said Freud, Awe used the termpsychosomaticduringmy career-- a connection between the psyche, which we placed in

the brain --and the body. However, now I suspect the linkage isbetween the soul and the body. In fact, the word psyche meanssoul. We may eventually come to learn that psychosomatic illness,

possibly even most physical problems in general, may be theoutcome of the soul=s relationship with the body.@

AYes, I see,@ said Yesua. AI suspect we will be discussingthese issues in more detail as we get further along.@

Freud needed to continue with the agenda for the day.

AIntuition is really God just talking to us. We have a receiverinsideour soul, which signals us, by getting our attention when He is

communicating. We then will say something like,>my intuitionabout this is=Y as though this was an originalthought. Not so--it

was God=s idea.

Yesua, I rather sensed that even down there, I sometimes

seemed to receive significant insights that came from nowhere. Iremember one of my discussions with Albert Einstein, you may


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have heard of him since you have been here. He had been quotedsaying: >all I need to know are God=s thoughts, the rest are details.He somehow understood this kind of communication with God; in

fact he claims he was given the answer to one of his hypothesis

concerning relativity, through a dream from God.@

AI see,@ said Yesua. AThat=s interesting --scientific revelation-

- from God; reminiscent of the revelation to the folks who wrote theBible.@

Yesua continuing,@ The idea ofsoulalways remained vague,ephemeral and not real. Even in the Old Testament, no one everapproached the subject in any real way. When I was young, if my

teachers mentioned the idea of a soul to me, I would ask myself,did they really mean Asoul, brain, heart or some elusive spirit-- or

what? It almost felt like a taboo subject.@

ANot ever really palpable,@ suggested Freud.

Yesua now looking down, AHaving read the New Testament,I suspect that during my mission, I didnt do very well with the

concept of the soul, either.

Freud replied, A Yesua, this is all about what we didnt= know

and what we thought we knew; neither of us could change humannature.@

There was more for today.

Freud looked at Yesua and said, AGod created the soul

from His own substance. The Creator took a piece of Him, andthen transformed this part into human material-- a human soul. Thesoul is a real structure, made of atoms and molecules. Somehow,

because of the way this happens, the perceptive part of the soullearns of the existence of God. By the way, many believed that thedeveloping fetus has memories of its intrauterine experience; I

think we will be able to understand later, how the soul learns ofGod=s existence.@

Although Yesua had been more of the spiritual being onearth than Freud, these basic concepts of the soul were being

channeled to Freud. Later, Yesua would become the principalrecipient of the information. The details of how the soul is actually


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created and how it managed to get into the body, remainedunanswered.

Freud now finishing, ALater, we also came to realize that

God is omnipotent, all-powerful; this sets the stage for the ultimateconflicts with God; His will, verse our will; the will, is actually within

the soul.

Yesua responding,A Sigmund, in many ways, I think I might

have been aware of this struggle of the wills; I didnt know that thewillwas in the soul. I anticipate that we are going to address the

full extent of this battle of the wills in a forthcoming meeting; I can=thelp but think that the resolution of this conflict is a component ofGod=s plan.@

Both men looked at each other and became silent; theysensed that this last remark, was a profound truth.

There was a long pause, as thoughts ran through both oftheir minds. It was as if they simultaneously, were thinking back to

their former behavior on earth. The men realized that their soul hadbeen present in their body, during their past lifetime, and probablycarried this unresolved conflict with God, within it.

However,wasGod now implying to them that alltheproblems of humankind stemmed from conflicts within each

person=s soul--more directly with their relationship with God?

For Yesua, the focus on the soul was not as much a leap--

he had always viewed human problems as spiritual ones; however,he never knew that it was the soul that housed the battlegroundbetween humans and their Creator.

For Freud, this was more difficult. He had been trained in a

medical model-- exploring the unconscious of childhood events.Yes, there might have been a soul, but what does that have to dowith anxiety, depression or addictions?

To Freud=s way of thinking, all conflicts in the mind wereultimately due to the battle between the two primal instincts (life

and death), not between God and us. In addition, these wereinstincts, part of human nature--what did they have to do with thesoul?


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Then, the Creator stepped in.

The answer came to Freud. Yes, the instincts were still

centralto the problem of human nature-- but they also were in thesoul -- not the brain or the body. Freud had experienced these

primary instincts within himself; as a psychoanalyst that is how hemanaged to describe them.

Unbeknownst to him, he had been really experiencingthesedrives within his own soul--not his brain. The battle of the opposing

forces took place in the soul; these forces, now had to beunderstood as part of the overall conflict with God; Freud wouldneed to acknowledge this and change his prior perceptions.

This proved to be a striking insightFreud needed to thinkmore about it.

Yesua then said, It seems amazing to me, how long thesoul has remained unexposed.

Freud nodded. Both men sensed that it was time to end themeeting -- it was a good start; they seemed pleased with the day.

.


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Chapter 4 The Nirvana Instinct

They would meet again on the bench in the fields of gold, where they

would begin their dialogue. New information had been revealed to

Freud since their last meeting--he needed to share this with Yesua. The

Creator would need to delay the process of disclosing more of the

nature of the soul, awhile longer.

AGood to see you my friend,@ said Yesua

AYes,@ said Freud, AI have something quite remarkable to

share with you.

However, the noted doctor seemed saddened.

AWhat=s on your mind today, Sigmund?@ asked Yesua

Freud averted his glance --he was hesitant to beginY.

AI missed the boat,@ said Freud,

AI am not sure what that means,@ replied Yesua.

Freud now facing Yesua, AI had many theories about

human behavior.@

AI remember that. I had an opportunity to read some of

your papers-- some kind of complex, replied Yesua.

Freud overlooked any inquiry into how Yesua might have

read some of his work; he was for the moment, intent on going

on.

AYes, I had a theory that boys universally had fond

feelings for their mothers and competitive impulses toward their

fathers. I used the term >oedipal complex= from a Greek play; I

thought that my patient=s symptoms stemmed from that

conflict.@


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AAh, yes, I do remember reading about that,@ said Yesua.

AI had many other theories too, except they never turned

out to be valid. What I did not tell you was that I failed. At first, Ibelieved that I cured my patients, only to see them return later,

with the same symptoms,@ responded Freud.

Freud looked away again; AI am not the successful

doctor that you think I am.@

Yesua looked away, wondering why this was happening.

Why was Freud feeling this way.? He could not have left the

earth-- so well known --and failed as dismally as he was now

saying.

AWhat I mean is -- I never healed anyone.@

AOk, I hear what you are telling me,@ said Yesua, Abut, go

on, there is more you want to tell me today.@

AAfter going through all my theories as to the causes of

my patients= neuroses, the theory that held up best, and I

believed to be true, was that there was an imbalance in our

two primal instincts: the life and death instinct ; Yesua, I believeeven now that this is true. A

(During the interim period, Yesua was led to read and

study Freud=s famous paper, written toward the end of his life,

entitled, AAnalysis Terminal and Interminable,@ which explained

this in some detail.)

ASigmund, before you go on, I want to let you know that I

have been prepared for this, to some extent; I think I havesome idea of what you were trying to tell people. A

AReally,@ said Freud, he was quite surprised.


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Yesua started to laugh and uttered, AI was given quite an

assignment B 2000 years of science to catch up on. A

Freud, feeling appreciative, was able to laugh along

with Yesua.

ASigmund, may I see if I understood some of this theory.

Humans have two primal instincts B one with a backward

tendency--you decided to call this: the death instinct. The

other, with a forward tendency, you labeled this: the life instinct.

You came to the conclusion that they opposed each other--

the retrograde drive being stronger than the life force. Your

patients could not seem to overcome their problems because

of this. In fact, you came to the conclusion that this so-called--

death instinct-- was the ultimate cause of all the problems in themind.@

AYes, that=s right,@ said Freud, feeling totally amazed and

mystified by what was taking place. Here he was in Heaven with

Yesua, who lived 2000 years ago, yet able to discuss this theory

with him.

However, the sadness in Freud=s eyes returned--he once

again looked away from Yesua--it was hard to tell if he was also

feeling shame or guilt.

Yesua, seeing the change in Freud=s mood, asked, Ayou

seem upset.@

Freud became silent, he could not say anymore at the

moment.

Yesua waited.

Freud uttered, AGod the Creator@-- he seemedoverwhelmed with sorrow moments later, he remembered

an old Hebrew prayer, AAvinu, (>Father I have sinned>)Y he

began to cry.


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It was hard for Yesua to see Freud this way, but he

realized that Freud was only a soul, as was he.

The sobbing continued for a while longer, Yesua being a

sensitive man, could feel his pain. He moved closer to Freud onthe bench, attempting to console him. AGo on Sigmund, help

me to understand.@

After a few more minutes, Freud was ready to

continue. AThis had to do with God-the Creator. What I mean is

that the regressive instinct (death instinct) was not about

returning us to some inorganic state or substance, or to some

one-celled animal, as I thought. This retrograde instinct was

about a drive to return us to our beginnings: to God Himself!

When I used the term-- return to the original state -- I shouldhave known it meant --back to our Creator.@

ASomething like a wish to undo our own creation?@ asked

Yesua.

AYes, that=s it. You are exactly right; iIt was about

becoming one with our Creator. God is the original state. The

instinct produces asecret wish in the unconsciousthis sets up

the ultimate conflict in the mind. The struggle between the life

instinct--whose aim was to propel us forward, and the opposing,more powerful retrograde instinct-- whose aim, we have now

learned, is to return us to oneness with God--undo our own

creation.@

Both men looked at each other-- it was an awesome

moment. Neither man knew what to say next. The idea felt like

a profound truth; could all human beings possess a secret

wish to undo their own creation?

Freud breaking the silence, AI did not understand, I wasstuck on Darwin=s theories of evolution, I did not consider that

this instinct was about our relationship with God.@


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AOk, I think I can understand some of that,@ said Yesua ;

but still ,why so upset with yourself? You did see part of the

picture, maybe not the whole picture.@

Freud looked at Yesua, not wanting to ruin his imageany furtherY.

Yesua waited for Freud to go on.

AYesua, I was an atheist-- I refused to accept the idea of

a God at all. I would not even consider the possibility that He

might have created things and then stepped away--they call

that Deism. In some sense, in my paper on >Moses and

Monotheism, I openly preached a doctrine of atheism.@

AOh, I see,@ said Yesua.

AYou see Yesua, my father was a pious man; I rebelled

against his teachings. Again, averting his eyes, I see now, I was

secretly rebellious against God, our Father.@

ASigmund, we need to keep reminding ourselves, God

brought us together because neither of us had the answers.

Nevertheless, In your own way, you were working for God! @

Freud looked at him, feeling some relief, but not quite

understanding why.

AYou were always following God=s will by seeking, and

only accepting the truth! Despite the fact that your theory was

not accepted, you stuck to it; and you were right--there was, in

fact, a retrograde instinct,@ replied Yesua.

AThank you,@ responded Freud.

This helped Freud and he regained his composure and

was ready to go on with today=s lesson.

AWell, you see Yesua, I now see that I should have called

the death instinct Bthe Nirvana Instinct.@


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ANirvana?@ questioned Yesua.

AYes. You see that a drive to return to an inorganic state,

as I speculated, would actually be getting less--we would begiving up a lot. However, to become one with God would be,

wellY Nirvana.@

ALike having it all-- everything,@ exclaimed Yesua.

Yes, that explains it best,@ said Freud, Athe state of being

at one with God is: Nirvana.@

Freud continued, AI can now see the picture. One of the

reasons people were so resistant to look into theirunconsciousCwas because they harbored a Asecret wish@ to

undo their own creation; it was kept concealed, deep within

their soul; perhaps the ultimate cause of man=s guilt?@

(This astounded Yesua. It was as though he was thrust into

the 21 century overnight. He certainly knew about a CreatorB

many would say intimately. However, this was a new idea: a

force whose aim is to return us to oneness with the Almighty--

God as the object of the instinct; this, Yesua had never

considered.)

ASigmund, you see, because of your experiences with

these instincts, it was easy for the Creator to communicate the

spiritual intent of the instinct.@

Freud was feeling much better by now, as history would

prove that he had been right about his theory. Despite all

criticism, he never gave up on his conviction of the dualism of

the instincts. The relief today, was that the partial truth he had

discovered on earth, might now be demonstrated (albeit in adifferent context), here in Heaven; there was, in fact, a

regressive instinct.

It was enough for the day; the Creator had revealed one

of the most important truths of human nature. The men knew


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that they would need to know how the Nirvana Instinct had

affected the history of humankind. Both men suspected that

part of God=s plan would be to solve the imbalance in the

primal instincts. They parted, feeling hopeful and knew that

more would be revealed.

.


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Chapter 5 AThe Instinct to Move Creation Forward@

Freud had never been able to measure or prove the

existence of the two primal instincts; however, the Creatorconfirmedfor Freud, that indeed, those two drives were present in

humans; Freud realized that he had previously placed these sameinstincts in the brain (or body); however, he now knew that theyactually sprung from inside the soul.

Yesua greeted Freud with a smile, as he joined him on the

bench, in the golden fields.

Freud was eager to begin and seemed to respond to Yesua,

as if no time had passed. AYesua, I am now certain, that those two

primal forces (drives), I had identified while on earth, in fact, doexist within human beings,@ uttered Freud.

(Freud was reassuring Yesua that what they had learned inthe last meeting was, in fact, a truth of human nature. They had

discussed the (regressive) Nirvana instinct, primarily in thatmeeting; however, the opposing nature of both instincts wasconfirmed.)

Yesua smiled approvingly, noting Freud=s eagerness tomove on with their work. AO.K., my friend, we seem to be on the

right track.@

Yesua had become a good listener. Since he had just

grasped the concept of the unconscious, he could not understandthe nature of the instincts, as well as Freud. One had to begin toexplore their unconscious, to experience the presence of these

urges; this would then help in accepting their existence.

AYesua, before I go on today, I have come to believe that onsome level, all human beings secretly know that these drives existwithin them and were powerless over them --so, they denied their

presence. I think we all knew that we could not change our innerworld, so we needed to feel in control by changing the outer world.Of course peace, happiness and purpose would always elude us--

something eventually had to be done about it.@


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AI think I can appreciate that,@ replied Yesua.

Freud continued, ASince our last meeting, I made an effort to

tune into my unconscious so I could re-experience those instinctsagain. Yesua, those two instincts are still there. Since we know

now that we are souls, no bodies or brains here, this confirms thepresence of the drives were in my soul all the time.@

AYes, I understand your point, no body, no brain,@ respondedYesua that means that they must have been in the soul from the

beginning. Sigmund, maybe you can help me work on becomingaware of these forces within me, as we continue on?@

Freud nodded approvingly.

AYou might remember that there are two primal instincts; we

talked mostly about this Nirvana instinct(regressive instinct) duringour last meeting.@ said Freud.

AYes, go on Sigmund.@

Freud looked down. AYesua, I never understood the real aim

of the other instinct--the life instinct--either. Its thrust seemed to bein a forward direction, I assumed that its goal was to help mypatients get their lives together; and then, perhaps-- achieve their

life=s goals. However, because of the negative instinct, and theopposing aims of those drives, the situation was never clear tome.@

AI think I can begin to understand that,@ replied Yesua.

Then a long silence ensuredY.

Yesua looked at Freud wondering why he suddenly becamesilent.

Freud hesitated, then: AThe life instinct is about God, too. Itis about God and creation--just like the Nirvana instinct!@ He put hishead down again, as if he was feeling a sense of shame.

(Yesua continued to bone up on science and other areas,during the interval periods, particularly in the area of biology and


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evolution. In addition, he also spent more time reading aboutFreud=s life and theories.)

ASigmund, before you go on, you only had certain

information available to you. With many of your colleagues notaccepting your instinct theory, you held to your truth. You were

right! God confirmed that there were these two instincts in humanbeings; you were in a culture that worshiped science, Darwin, andhis theories of evolution; nonetheless, you proved to be a great

scientist and from what I have heard, remain respected by many. A

AWell, thanks Yesua,@ said Freud, now in better spirits. AIsee that you read more about my life.@

AYes, I have continued to do my homework,@ replied Yesua.

ASo, what about this other instinct?@ asked Yesua.

AYou mean what I called the life instinct,@ quipped Freud,

Anot that important.@

Yesua looked perplexed for the moment.

AJust a minor after thought by the Creator so he couldmaintain civilization, remarked Freud. This was Freud=s way ofreducing his embarrassment over having missed the mark(soul).

(God had already informed Freud of the importance of thisprogressive instinct during the interim period.)

AO.K. I will tell you more; this life instinct has also beenrenamed.@ exclaimed Freud. ARemember that the death instinctbecame the Nirvana instinct, well..@

AI>m ready, my friend--lets hear it,@ said Yesua.

AThe life instinct is real: it=s a forward moving drive.@ saidFreud.

AI understand,@ said Yesua

AIt has an aim, and an object of that aim-- just as the Nirvanainstinct had an aim and an object for its aim,@ said Freud.


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AYes, I remember. The object of the Nirvana instinct wasGod Himself; its aim was to return the soul to oneness with itsCreator,@ responded Yesua.@

AYes,@ said Freud. Then he looked at Yesua, paused for asecond, and suddenly stood upY.ACreation--it is creation instinct;

God ensured that creation would continue to unfold; he hassafeguarded that through the design of this instinct.@

Yesua laughingly, AI guess by standing up, you are trying totell us that creation is going to move forward.@

Freud smiled, his reaction had been spontaneous.

Freud sat down, AThere is more.@

Yesua now, an informed listener.

AFor God, it is called a creation instinct-- designed to carryout his plan for creation. As the instinct relates to our own purpose

(our self), it is also called a completion instinct,@ continued Freud.

ASigmund, please explain this further, responded Yesua.

AThis instinct is designed to both carry out God=s blueprintfor creation and to completing the development of the Aself@(soul).

The instinct has been programmed to allow the soul to participatein God=s design; it does this by revealing one=s purpose. We allhave a purpose and it relates to serving the Creator; additionally,

this gives meaning to life and a reason for our existence. Tosummarize: the instinct completes our soul and by doing so,enables us to help God with his plan for Creation--hence, a

creation and completion instinct-- the same instinct.@ respondedFreud.

A Sigmund, I would like to review this with you before you goon. The completion and creation instinct are the same instinct. One

of its objectives is to complete the intent of each individual soulenabling it to be in a better place to help God move creationforward. Therefore, we can also call i t a creation instinct. You had

named this instinct, the life instinct, during your career; now we arerenaming it-- the creation and completion instinct.@


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AYes,@ said Freud, A this is my understanding of the natureof this instinct.@

Yesua looked toward Freud but paused.

AWhy both,@ asked Yesua, Awhy two instincts?@

Freud trying to avoid the question, AYou mean two instinctshaving opposite aims?@

AYes, why two instincts at all-- why not just a creation or

completion instinct?@ suggested Yesua.

Freud content with what he had learned so far quipped,

Well ,first He thought he would bring us all back in case He got

lonely, hence --the Nirvana instinct; then, later, he changed hismind and designed the soul with the creation instinct.@

AAh,@ said Yesua, AI understand, our Creator has made uphis mind to finish creation.@

ASo, the answer to that question was not revealed to you,Sigmund?@

ALater, HE said.

Yesua trusted God; he knew that God had a plan. He wassure that God would not have left us this way with these opposinginstincts, unless there was a reason. The so-called formula must

be designed to solve this problem. Yesua also began tounderstand more clearly, why Freud was so insistent on modifyingthe retrograde instinct; he knew that otherwise, his patients could

never finish their treatment.

Yesua also began to see how these opposing instincts mayhave pertained to his own mission. As more of his memoryreturned, he would have time to sort this out; however, for now,

they had made inroads into the mysteries of human nature.

As they parted, they knew that their spiritual lessons would

continue and more would be revealed.


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CHAPTER 6 AThe Nirvana Instinct in Human Happenings@

Freud could hardly wait for Yesua to join him. When he

arrived, Freud immediately uttered, AOf course, it was the Nirvanainstinct all along.

Yesua sensed Freud=s eagerness and he remained silent.

(They would resume their conversations on the bench, in

the midst of the golden fields. The true aims of both instincts had beenidentified; they would return to the Nirvana instinct and to the variousways it had manifested itself, since the beginning of mankind.)

After a moment, Yesua replied, AYes, I remember when welast discussed this; the new term for the death instinct is the

Nirvana instinct; we both felt that this revision described the truenature of this instinct.@

Freud needed to continue, AI remember that the word

Nirvana, comes from an old Hindu word nirwd, which meant to>blow out. In both Hinduism and Buddhism, the term Nirvana cameto mean the absorption of the soul into a perfect place or state-- a

reunion with God. In Hinduism, the idea of God might be calledBrahma, and in Buddhism, a supreme spirit. The other aspect tothe definition of Nirvana, in both religions, is the notion of the

extinguishing of ones individual existence-- like >blowing out= a

candle.@

AThat fits in with our own understanding today,@ said Yesua,Ato become one with God, to undo our own creation; the result ofwhich, would produce a kind of --eternal bliss. Sigmund, it seems

that the Hindus were on the right track.@


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Freud replied, However, those spiritual religions did not suspectthat they were responding to a wish generated by the Nirvanainstinct. Their beliefs developed along the lines of --fulfilling the

thrust of the instinctthey harbor the expectation that they can

undo their separation from God.

A That is most important isn=t it? asked Yesua.

AYes, because the Aperil@ is that the wish --becomes the

goal,@ answered Freud.

AI needed to hear you clarify that--it is central to our plight--this instinct has to be eradicated. This may be contrary to half theworld=s belief system--they will need to give up the wish, replied

Yesua.

AYesua, that crystallizes the problem; the idea of it being a

ANirvana instinct, helps explain so many of the things I could neverquite piece together.

AThese drives trigger all kinds of behaviors that I neverunderstood. Don=t picture this retrograde drive as actually going ina backward direction; it=s an impulse with an aim or intentto return

the soul to its origin; as a result, it activates mentalrepresentations and behaviors when it plays on the mind.

AIt=s like the rays of the sun hitting the atmosphere; the raymay then splinter off into many colors--the spectrum of colors werederived from the initial ray of the sun; instincts work in a similar

fashion.@

Yesua seeing if he understood, AWhen the instinct is

received by the mind, it is translated into human ideas. Theinstinct, in some sense, might determine what we think or feel at

that moment and what action we might take.@

Freud smiled, AYes, that=s exactly what I mean.

AThis idea of thoughts, feelings and behaviors produced byan instinct, I understood from the original death instinct,@ offered

Freud. AHowever, what I did not know was that what I was feelingwas actually coming from my soul; what I interpreted as life anddeath instincts should have been labeled the Nirvana or Creation


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instinct that makes the whole difference; I missed the deeper andtrue mental representations of those instincts.

AThese are the key mental representatives of the Nirvana

instinct=s effects on the mind: Omnipotence, omniscience,perfection; the wish for oneness, for absolute rest, and eternal

bliss. I might have mentioned that these ideas often can take theform of wishes; the instincts also are manifested by wishes.

Yesua responded, The minds response to the instinct ,always has some connotation related to God; either a God

characteristic or a wish to return to God; it is as if these behavioraltraits we mentioned, are disguising the true motive of the instinct. Inoticed that you included the characteristic of perfection;

interesting that the wish for perfection, is really the wish for

oneness.

AYes,@ responded Freud, Athat=s right. I have been acting asif I am the professor here; the truth is that this is all new for both ofus. The only thing I knew beforehand was that an instinct could

be represented in the mind; all this information pertaining to theNirvana instinct was only recently revealed to me.@

ASure; I think we both appreciate that we are being given allthis knowledge from God; however, Sigmund, God needed you tosynthesize this material in a way that I could understand it.@

Freud nodded and then continued. AThese two primalinstincts are not as easily accessible to consciousness, as might

be the sexual instinct. But, by making a concerted effort ofattentiveness, one can actually experience their effects, as youmight with the sexual instinct. You can feel the force of them and

their aims; they are constantly and persistently seeking theiropposing goals. You see Yesua, instincts are persistent, they want

their way; we do not realize that we are being pushed by theseinstincts every day, all day, as they seek satisfaction their desires.

AThe sexual instinct, as an example, which is easilyaccessible to its demand on the mind, and is felt like an urge; it

makes its impression on the mind, and stirs thoughts, ideas, andimages; this might be followed by a behavior response to theinstinct as well.


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AThe Nirvana instincts equivalents (omnipotence,

omniscience, perfectionism, etc ), underlies the expression-- >quit

acting like you are God. Another expression is-->quit playing God.=

All that kind of God-like behavior, would have been under thethroes of the Nirvana instinct.@

AThe Nirvana instinct itself --produced that kind of behavior,@responded Yesua.

AYes, the reality, as I now know for sure, is that our

behavior is a response to one or both instincts,@ answered Freud.AIt is hard to accept thathowever that is the truth. I had discussedthis in some of my clinical papers, but, with God>s support, I can

now say it with certainty.@

(Freud then hesitated for a moment; his thoughts were

drawn to issues from his former life; there had been manycomplaints about his personality. One in particular, was hisdogmatism concerning his theories; this could lead to being critical

other people=s ideas; in some cases, he attempted to suppressthem.)

He recalled his closest colleague and friend, Dr Fleiss,along with most of his other followers, who eventually, abandonedhim; even, the well-known analyst, Dr. Carl Jung, who was like a

son to him, broke off contact. Freud began to wonder if he hadalso played God--had he been a demagogue?)

Yesua also paused for a second; he had rememberedreading about two important phrases from the Bible. ASigmund,there were these two phrases from the Bible: >Love thy neighbor

as thy self; do unto others as you would have them do unto you ; Iam beginning to wonder if one could really do that?@

This caught Freud=s attention; he felt that Yesua=s memorywas returning. Yesua would need help in re-evaluating the

expectationshe had for his flock; his ministry was heavily rootedin the golden rule. Freud knew there were many nuances to thisnegative instinct that needed clarification.


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(Since this was all new to Freud, he knew that God wasalways in the background and ready to lend a helping hand.)

Then the answer came to Freud, ASelfish behavior is not

caring about the other person--only about oneself; it is a directmanifestation of the Nirvana instinct. Selfishness means --I really

want it onlyfor myself, it really disguises the deeper wish--I want itall. Wanting it all-- is the wish for Nirvana. So, yes, selfishness isanother character defect, as a result of the discharge of the

Nirvana instinct ; that is the main impediment for being able topractice the golden rule.@

Yesua seemed to understand this, and replied, AOh, I see--.

A As long as the Nirvana instinct wins out, people will

always be putting themselves first--self-seeking and selfcenteredness can never be overcome.@

They both were beginning to see why human nature had notchanged.

Freud replied,A Some of the other cardinal sins, such as:gluttony, sloth (laziness)-- as it often called, are equivalents of the

Nirvana instinct. Greed, and its relationship to the Nirvana instinctseemed obvious. Sloth was a character disguise for the deeperwish for the state of absolute rest --then one would have nothing to

do! I am beginning to think that all excesses are: Nirvana. @

Freud then thought for a minute; he reviewed the basic

concept that all the variegated behaviors seen in human beingsare the result of both instincts operating at the same time.Sometimes, one more then the other; this would also account for

the 7 cardinal sins expressing themselves, when the Nirvanainstinct was without opposition from the creation instinct.

There was suddenly a rumblingsound up above them--quickly gaining their attention. They looked at each other, both

sensing that they were--somehow -- being Anudged@ by God. .

They looked at each other, feeling like they had missed

something; perhaps the most problematic aspect of this tryinginstinct.


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Then Yesua=s expression abruptly changed. He looked atFreud somewhat mystified--as though some unforeseen ideas hadrisen into his awareness--from an unknown part of him.

(The men had previously come to understand that theseAintuitive@ thoughts were actually being channeled from God, however, for

an instant, it was difficult to sort that out.)

Then.

APeoplealways needed more,@ said Yesua,Athey never were

satisfied-- that is the key to the human dilemma. The aim of theNirvana instinct is to return the soul to its origin-- that is notpossible-- therefore, you can neversatisfythe instinct!

AOnce created always created. We can never satisfy theinstinct because we can never undo our own creation: we can

never achieve Nirvana; that is what I am trying to say.@

Yesua repeated almost shamefully, ASigmund, it feels like

somehow I always knew that.@

AI guess we needed to see the essence of the discontent, in

humanity, as another, but perhaps the main outcome of therepulsive force, @ replied Freud.

AYesua needed to finish his thoughts. AYou can neverextinguish the instinct--it will always return for more. As you said,instincts are insistent ,persistent and constant; its urge, sort of a

craving, that can never be satisfied Therefore, human beings, thehuman race, will always be in a state of unrest and discontent--youhad predicted this.@

Freud needed to hear this. He had observed this sense of a

chronic low-grade dissatisfaction in himself and everyone he knew;--it seemed that Yesua had defined a universal truth. Although thishad been implied all along, God made sure that the focus would be

on the idea of satisfaction.

Back then, it never fit in with his concept of the deathinstinct; however, it now made sense knowing the nature of theNirvana instinct.


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.

Freud said, AWhat was so hard to accept was that I could not

find a way to bind or master the force of the instinct. My plight always

was: where Id was, Ego would be. Id being the instincts. This meant thatthe intellectual part of the mind (ego) would eventually tam or replace the

instinct. We could understand cause and effect, and think our way intomodifying this drive--all my efforts failed. I denied the existence of a soul,and apowergreater than myself.@

There was a moment of enlightenment!

Yesua sensing the gist of Freud=s comment, ATherefore, youare now thinkingthat there may be a spiritual answerto changing

human nature?@

AYes,@ said Freud, Awe know that the battleground for these

opposing instincts is in the soul. Yesua, as you have heard meinfer that the death instinct (Nirvana instinct) was the ultimatecause of all the conflicts in the mind; therefore, I suspect we will be

hearing a lot more from God on this subject.@

For Yesua, at first, the notion of instincts was a tremendous

conceptual leap. Although he began to understand the concept, hedid not yet have the opportunity to experience its effects on himselfor on those around him.

As the meeting was ending, they both began to think that theformula to change human behavior would definitely have to

address the Nirvana instinct and its retrograde aspects. Thehuman plight had not significantly changed since the dawn of man;

if creation is scheduled to move forward, this negative instinctcouldcertainly be the culprit.

Then, an unusual idea came to Freud=s mind: God hadcreated the human soul with the Nirvana instinct for a reason --itwas necessary--not an accident; now, He no longer needs us to

have it; therefore, God is asking us to help Him extinguish it! Quitea mystery. Yesua had exactly the same thought as they parted.


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Chapter 7 A Yesua=s Mission: the Kingdom of God@

Most contemporary Biblical scholars would agree that of allthe testimonies of Jesus in the Gospels, the saying: AKingdom of

God@ was the central and most important message; every otherpart of his mission was derived from that element. The declaration:Kingdom of God (or of Heaven) was mentioned in Mark, 13 times,

Q 25, Luke 6, Mathew 25 and John twice. The word Heaven wassometimes substituted for the word God in the pronouncement.

Many of these scholars would also suggest that Yesuaoffered hope to humanity by indicating that the AKingdom of God@was coming, and that this hopewas the inspiration for the writing

of the Gospels.

The phrase, the Kingdom of God, had overt and covert

meanings. During today=s meeting, we will learn the importanthidden meanings to this saying, and its implications for the

evolving plan to alter mans behavior.

Yesua tried to convey through his preaching that people

should be loving, kind and forgiving to each other-- they shouldtreat others as they wish to be treated. He chastised many forbeing greedy, selfish and dishonest; he suggested that sinners

needed to repent for their sins. He also prophesied that therewould soon be a radical change in the behavior and affairs ofhumankind.


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As the meeting with Freud grew closer, Yesua wasprepared to share with Freud, what he had learned about thisenigmatic saying, Kingdom of God. .

They again joined each other in the midst of the fields of gold.When Freud arrived, he sensed that there had been a change in Yesua.

AYou have begun to remember your missing years?@ asked Freud.

AYes,@ said Yesua. AI needed to examine the main messageI conveyed during the period of my mission; you may remember I

mentioned having a vague recollection of it in a prior meeting.@

AI see,@ said Freud, not exactly sure what he meant.

A Wherever I went, I would use the phrase: the Kingdom of

God.I would suggest to people that the Kingdom was coming

and that they should repent. Sometimes it was as if I was saying

that He would be coming to restore the land for the Jewish people;I seemed to use it for different reasons, at different times; I alwaysfelt that I was a spokesman for God, to deliver that saying. @

AAh, yes, I do remember you reflecting for a moment, on

that expression. Yesua, you should know that despite my issueswith religion, during my career, I did study the doctrines of most

religions including Christianity; I was familiar with that statement inthe Gospels.@

Yesua then became silent.

Freud remained attentive.

ThenY. AYou see, Sigmund, the Kingdom of God is now!@

This caught Freud off guard. ANow?@ asked Freud.

Yesua replied, AThe Kingdom of God meant: God=s overallplan for solving the problems of mankind!, said Yesua.

ADo you mean the current plan, the one we are working ontogether, here in Heaven?@ responded Freud.

AYes,@ said Yesua.


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This was confusing to Freud, as the declaration of theKingdom of Heaven was delivered by Yesua about 2000yearsago.

AI am not sure I understand,@ said Freud.

AWell, one way to look at it is that it had been a secret or

hidden message, one that I was not capable of deciphering at thetime, said Yesua

AI see,@ said Freud. ALet me see if I understand. When youwere given this phrase to use, during your past lifetime, it contained the

plan and solution even then?@ asked Freud.

Yesua smiled, I can assure you Sigmund that the Creatordid not just figure this out, since we have been here.@

Freud laughed, then, Ah, a real piece of divine wisdom.

AOK, I see, A said Freud; this was all planned out; it is onlyrecently that the hidden meaning of the statement has been

revealed to you.@

AYes,@ said Yesua.

Freud was quite taken by the degree of his humility, he hadaccepted that he never understood the hiddenr meaning of the

pronouncement.

Freud thought this idea of-- Kingdom of God-- must be a

symbol or metaphor

. Yesua continued, AOn one occasion I remember thinkingthat the idea of Kingdom might be inside of me.it was an

intuition. Now I learned that the Kingdom meant my soul; part of the

hidden implication was that the answers lie within our soul; it fitwith where we are today.

AIt seemed like you were given this phrase to use aspreparation forthe future,@ said Freud.


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AYes, I now see that I was a prophet,@ said Yesua--Asuggesting the Kingdom would come in the future.

Freud enthusiastically,@ Yes, that makes sense.

Yesua then looked directly at Freud -- ASigmund, God knew

about your struggles with the opposing instincts. You see, you hadto come into being, you had to make your discovery; you werealways to be part of God=s plan.@

They looked at each other; this was a profound mystical

moment.

Freud was overwhelmed for a minute; all his sadness -- he

thought he had been a failure --burst out into tears. But then--a

smile appeared through the tears--conveying a sense of relief.

Yesua smiled, AI understand Sigmund.@

Freud looked back at Yesua, A Thank you; I can finally let

go of the problem--I don=t have to play God--I can leave the cureup to Him.@

ASigmund, you have made a great contribution for all of us;we probably might never have had this opportunity, if you hadn=tdiscovered the two forces controlling human nature.

, AOf course, I never knew about the opposing instincts,and the power of the retrograde Nirvana instinct, during the periodof my past mission -- I have learned all about that from you.

Without that knowledge, I see now, that there was not much I coulddo to change anyone=s behavior. You see, I now realize that mymain purpose was to offer hope, I expected too much of myself.@

AI understand; our Creator helped you with this self- analysis

during the interim period?@ asked Freud.

AYes, Sigmund, this was one reason I did not want toremember my ministryI did not want to face my failure.

AYou mean you thought you failed because you expected

too much of yourself,@ responded Freud.


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AYes, that=s right,@ said Yesua, AourFatherhad helped meunderstand that my mission was about sustaining hope for thefuture, not changing human nature.

Freud exclaimed, AYou did just that, Yesua--Christianitywas born because of your message of hope! @

Now, tears came to Yesua=s eyes: he had, in fact,accomplished his mission!

Yesua began to sob. These were feelings of remorse that he

had kept buriedin his soul, he had believed that he haddisappointed God.

Freud moved closer to console him.

AI am very grateful that God has brought us together,Sigmund--you are very kind.@

Freud nodded with appreciation. (For a moment, he looked

about checking his sense of reality! He would do this from timeto time, reassuring himself that this was really happening, and thisman.-- next to him on the benchwas Jesus from the New

Testament.)

Yesua, another way of interpreting what you have said is

that the world was not ready for this plan, during your mission.@

Sure, another false expectation of mine, replied Yesua.

Yesua said, AIt was not that God would come down or

destroy the sinful, as I thought, but rather that human beings hadproblems; he knew of the problems, since he created us all.

Therefore, the message, Kingdom of God, was also about letting usknow that He was there, and would intervene when the time came; this

was an apocalyptic meaning, to the Kingdom of God.@

Yesua continued, ASo this phrase had many meanings; itwas like the title of a book, we needed to read the whole story; its

overall meaning was that God knew our problems, and had a plan in

reserve, to solve them. Then, within that meaning, came the idea that the


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problems could only be understood within the soul; we would eventuallyhave to look within our soul. ==

AThere is more to this story,@ said Yesua. AThe ultimate goal

of the plan is also related to moving Creation forward.@

AThis was the purpose of the Creation instinct,@ offeredFreud.

AYes,@ said Yesua. ASo, the idea ofKingdom is another wayof saying Creation; the design of creation is imparted within this

statement; the Kingdom of God here, means: creation itsel, and thedesign to move it forward.@

Freud responded, A By you expressing the good news --

the Kingdom of God is coming-- meant that Creation of the humansoul would also need to be completed.@

AYes, I can see that,@ said Yesua.

AThere is one last segment to this story,@ said Yesua.

AGo on,@ said Freud.

Yesua continued, AAnother concept, involves us facing and

healing from ourAcreation experience@ itself; God suggested tome that there was a trauma involved in that experience.

ATrauma?@ said Freud. AWhat is that all about? @

Yesua responded, AThis wound or trauma has something to

do with the actual way every soul needed to be created andformed; you may remember that we were told previously that Godcreated us from Himself.@

AYes,@ said Freud, A I remember that.@

AWell, this took time,@ said Yesua; the soul proceeded to

evolve, to develop, after it was first hatched.@

AI can understand that; its like an embryo needing to grow

into a full grownfetus,@ said Freud.


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Freud thought of the concept of a birth trauma. AYesua, Iremembered one my colleagues Otto Rank, who proposed thetheory that all of man=s anxieties stem from the trauma of birth; I

wonder if the soul experienced some kind of birth trauma.@

AI don=t think I have an answer for that today, Sigmund.@

Freud smiled; they both knew that the God would unravelthe rest of the mystery in due time.

Yesua said, The best I can glean, is that this was a

necessity, as part of theprocess of coming from God, Himself.@

AYesua, do you think we both may still need to heal? Maybethat traumatic event is still in our unconscious?@

ACould be,@ responded Yesua.

Freud was not ready to let go of this for today said, AAnotherconcept related to this idea was the concept ofAseparation anxiety ; this occurred in infants being away from their mothers; maybe

that has something to do with the soul separating and leavingGod?@

Yesua replied, A I suspect that there is merit to your

comparisons-- let=s see what God has to say about all this.@

Freud smiled, he again felt relieved. He no longer had to

speculate or come up with a scientific explanation, there would beno need for science; the scientific method was not appropriatehere. God would tell them the absolute truth-- it did not have to be

proven.

In some sense, Yesua too, felt relieved. Perhaps, deep

within his soul, he knew that he never quite understood themeaning of the Kingdom of God; he had done the best he could

with it, by setting an example for people. He now knew why hecould not change human behavior; however, in addition, perhapsFreud was right, humans may not have fully healed from their ownseparation from God.

Progress had been made. The two main obstacles to

modifying human behavior had been considered: the problem of


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the opposing instincts, and now, some traumatic experience to thesoul during its creation and separation from God; these twoproblems might be mysteriously linked together.

Yesua loved and trusted God; he knew that the promisedformula was designed to solve the entire problem.

Both men were eager to continue their spiritual journeys, asthey parted.

CHAPTER 8 AThe Creation Of The Soul@

The problems manifested by the two opposing instinctshad been described previously and would now be placed in

abeyance -- the focus would turn to the nature and developmentofthe soul.

Freud and Yesua arrived at the same time.. The subjectmatter --the creation and separation of the soul --was unknown tothem. Yesua had been more of a spiritual man, and could accept

the concept of the creation of the soul by a Creator; this was stillmore difficult for Freud--he had been steeped in scientific

methodology for many years.

Freud considered that the instincts were in his domain andsupposed that Yesua would be primari

freud meets jesus in heaven

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