conveyor equipment manufacturers association voice of the conveyor industry of the americas minutes...

AGENDA OF THE CEMA ENGINEERING CONFERENCE CONVEYOR IDLER COMMITTEE MEETING

Tuesday, June 27, 2017

1. Call to Order

2. Attendance and Introductions

3. Review and approval of previous minutes (Attached)

4. Old Business

a. CEMA G Idler Dimensionsi. Review simplified dimensional survey results

b. High Speed Conveyingi. TIR survey didn’t yield resultsii. Review of any further information from other standards

c. 5-Roll Troughing Idlersi. Topic to be kept activeii. Summary of Figure 5.7

5. New Business

a. Larger headings on load rating tables in 7th editionb. Research into localized belt indentation issues in CEMA G may prompt a

minimum roll diameter

6. Next Meeting: June 26, 2018 at La Playa Hotel. Naples, FL

7. Adjourn

Conveyor Equipment Manufacturers Association

THE VOICE OF THE CONVEYOR INDUSTRY OF THE AMERICAS

MINUTES OF THE CEMA ENGINEERING CONFERENCE IDLER COMMITTEE MEETING

LaPlaya Beach Resort, Naples, Florida


1. The Idler Committee Chair, Jarrod Felton, convened the meeting at 8:30 a.m.

2. Attendance sheets were sent around the room. There were 50 people in attendance. See attached

attendance rosters.

3. Agenda was approved without changes.

4. Prior meeting minutes were discussed. Comments that Standard 502 metric needed to be reviewed. Prior

minutes were then approved.

5. Old Business

a. CEMA F and G Idlers:

Direction from the OR’s at the 2016 Annual Meeting was to task the engineering committee to form a

new subcommittee and come up with dimensional standards for CEMA G Class Idlers. Previous attempts

did not yield a consensus for dimensional information. Jim Masek volunteered to get a 1st draft of the

dimensional information for G Class idlers and circulate to the subcommittee with the goal to have

something to present at the fall meeting. The following people also volunteered for this subcommittee:

James Carr from Syntron, Lucas Morse from Rulmeca, James Wright from Stephens‐Adamson, and

Benjamin Brewer from Douglas Manufacturing.

Only comment about the CEMA F Idlers was that the dimensional and loading information for the

standard looks to be complete.

b. High Speed Conveying – TIR

There were only 4 companies that submitted information with wide variation in TIR. There was much

discussion regarding some of the following topics

What does the conveyor really need?

What can be manufactured?

Can we resubmit request for information from manufacturers?

Machining the roll to improve TIR?

Is dynamic balance of the roll an issue?

Maybe recommendation is not a standard but a technical paper?

Is the creation of noise an issue?

What is high speed for a bulk conveyor idler?

Is the rate of change of the TIR important?

What speed are current standards written to? CEMA is 500 RPM. What is ISO/DIN/others?



Is there any published papers or other research in this area we can reference?

Outcomes of this discussion:

i) Re‐survey manufacturing members to see if we can get more participation. This was voted on and

approved.

ii) Request for volunteers to submit supporting information. Jim Masek from PPI, Benjamin Brewer from

Douglas Manufacturing, Mark Wilbur from Overland Conveyor, and Andrew Jennings from Conveyor

Dynamics volunteered to do investigation on published papers or find other technical papers

regarding this topic.

iii) Request to write a technical paper on this topic. There were no volunteers and not much support for

this idea at this time.

c. 502 Standard updates to tables and calculations:

i) 54,000 L10 hours for impacts.

This is referenced on page 122 of the 7th edition of the Belt Conveyors for Bulk Materials book below

figure 5.58 in the notes section. It was discussed that this is not correct and should either be fixed or

removed. A motion was made and approved to get the correct the value. This example is continued

on page 123 and further study of the book on page 123 shows this example using a value of 144,000

hours. It was determined to use the value of 144,000 hours in place of 54,000 hours on page 122.

ii) Figure 2‐1 still valid when CIL/ILR>1

A question was submitted to CEMA that for this figure if this ratio is greater than 1 does this figure still

valid. It was discussed that if this is confusing for one person than it is confusing for other people and

should be clarified. A motion was made and approved to add a clarification statement. Jarrod Felton

from Superior volunteered to draft this statement and circulate it.

6. New Business:

a. Discussion about dynamic balance of an idler roll being important to the conveyor was raised. Point was

made that when discussing high speed conveyors and TIR of idler rolls the need for dynamic balance

needs to also be considered in the discussion not just TIR.

b. Discussion was had about 5 roll troughing idlers presentations from previous meetings. Dr. Robin Steven

from Continental Contitech volunteered to write and initial section to show the use and design of 5 roll

troughing idlers. Possible have a draft of this to show at the fall meeting. Statement was made to have

this on the agenda for the fall meeting.

c. Discussed what to have on the agenda for next year’s meeting. It was generally agreed to have high speed

conveying and CEMA G dimensional information on the agenda for next year.

7. Next meeting is June 27, 2017

8. The meeting adjourned at approximately 9:50 am.

Respectfully submitted, Jim Masek, Vice‐Chair Conveyor Idler Committee

Attended EC-2016Conveyor Idler Committee Meeting

Name Company First Meeting E‐mail Tel

Lee Williams ASGCO® "Complete Conveyor Solutions" [email protected] 610‐821‐0216

David Keech Baldor Electric Company [email protected] 864‐297‐4800

Jim Mickelson Baldor Electric Company [email protected] 864‐297‐4800

Avinash Bhalerao Bechtel Corp. [email protected] 713‐235‐3679

Luis Estay Bechtel Mining & Metals [email protected] 56‐2‐27956663

Philip Hannigan CEMA [email protected] 239‐514‐3441

Naylu Garces CEMA [email protected] 239‐514‐3441

Dr. Robin Steven ContiTech North America, Inc. [email protected] 888‐899‐6354

Andrew Jennings Conveyor Dynamics, Inc. jennings@conveyor‐dynamics.com 360.671.2200

Marcus Dos Santos Dos Santos International, LLC [email protected] 770‐423‐9895

Benjamin Brewer Douglas Manufacturing Co., Inc. [email protected] 205‐884‐1200

Paul Ross Douglas Manufacturing Co., Inc. [email protected] 205‐884‐1200

Todd Hollingsworth Engineered Conveyor Systems LLC [email protected] 208.377.9331

Akiko Wakatsuki Fenner Dunlop Eng. Conveyor Solutions Yes [email protected] 412.249.0684

Brett DeVries FLEXCO [email protected] 616‐459‐3196

Matthew Koca FLEXCO Yes [email protected] 630.410.2000

Greg Westphall FLEXCO [email protected] 630‐971‐0150

Carl Hessler FLEXCO Yes [email protected] 616‐459‐3196

Chris Byrne FLEXCO Yes [email protected] 616‐459‐3196

John Cieplak FLEXCO Yes [email protected] 630.410.2000

Rick Tschantz Imperial Technologies, Inc. ricktschantz@imperial‐technologies.com 330‐491‐3200

Friedrich Bitterwolf Jorgensen Conveyors, Inc. Yes [email protected] 262‐242‐2089

Bob Hawkins Joy Global [email protected] 205‐487‐6492

Edwin McDonald Joy Global [email protected] 205‐487‐6492

Jeff Mensch PE Kinder Morgan Engineering & Conveying [email protected] 281‐886‐1701

Harold Dibben Lassing Dibben Consulting Engineers Ltd. [email protected] 613‐398‐0007

Frank Loeffler, Jr. Loeffler Engineering Group [email protected] 512‐267‐8700

John Barickman Martin Engineering Company johnb@martin‐eng.com 309‐594‐2384

John Calfee Martin Sprocket & Gear, Inc. [email protected] 817.258.3000

Mark Wilbur Overland Conveyor Co. Inc. Yes [email protected] 303‐973‐7357

Jim Masek Precision Pulley and Idler Co. (PPI) [email protected] 641‐621‐2874

Tim Wolf Precision Pulley and Idler Co. (PPI) [email protected] 641‐621‐2533

Violeta Stanojevic Precision Pulley and Idler Co., RAS Div. Yes [email protected] 604.560.8176

Raul Morales Rexnord [email protected] 414‐213‐2184

Joshua Stoll Richwood Yes [email protected] 304‐525‐5436

Judd Roseberry Richwood [email protected] 304‐525‐5436

Todd Swinderman RToddS Engineering, LLC [email protected] 386.589.4384

Lucas Morse Rulmeca Canada Limited [email protected] 519.627.2277

Randy Collett Rulmeca Canada Limited [email protected] 519.627.2277

David Ackels Sandvik Mining [email protected] +491722014790

Dr. Andrew Hustrulid Shaw Almex Industries [email protected] 905‐643‐7750

Keith Meyers SKF USA, Inc. Yes [email protected] 267.436.6000

James Wright Stephens‐Adamson [email protected] 613‐962‐3411

Jarrod Felton Superior Industries jarrod.felton@superior‐ind.com 320‐589‐7575

James Carr Syntron Material Handling, LLC Yes [email protected] 662.869.5711

Fabian Rubio TAKRAF USA, Inc. [email protected] 303.714.8050

Eric Jackson TAKRAF USA, Inc. [email protected] 303.714.8050

Jeremy Watts TAKRAF USA, Inc. [email protected] 303.714.8050

Tony Wheeler TAKRAF USA, Inc. Yes [email protected] 303.714.8050

Preston Hofer Universal Industries, Inc. [email protected] 319‐277‐7501

Sergey Vaysfligel, P.E. Van Gorp Corporation [email protected] 641‐628‐9212

DRAFT AGENDA OF THE CEMA ENGINEERING CONFERENCE CONVEYOR IDLER COMMITTEE MEETING


1. Call to Order

2. Attendance and Introductions

3. Approval of Agenda

4. Review and approval of previous minutes

5. Old Business

a. CEMA F and G idlers b. High speed conveying – TIR c. 502 Standard updates to tables and calculations

i. 54,000 L10 hours for impacts ii. Figure 2‐1 still valid when CIL/ILR>1

6. New Business

a.

7. Next Meeting: June27, 2017

8. Adjourn



MINUTES JOINT IDLER/PULLEY COMMITTEE MEETING 7:30 a.m.

Monday, March 14, 2016 La Quinta Resort, La Quinta, CA 1. The meeting was called to order by Chairman Jarrod Felton at 7:33 a.m. Members Present: Dusty Bradley Rob Christian Charles East Jarrod Felton Naylu Garces

Kevin Hambrice Kevan MacRow Geoff Normanton Marco A. Oropeza Judd Roseberry

Paul Ross Brian Simpson Frank Sunseri Greg Westphall Axel Witt

2. The Minutes of September 15, 2015, Meeting were approved

3. CEMA F and G Class Idlers The group discussed the next step. They agreed to task the engineering committee to form a new subcommittee. The subcommittee will be charged with creating a dimension envelope survey to send to manufacturing members to fill out. The configurations of idlers/returns that already have load ratings approved should be surveyed. The results of that survey will be anonymous, and will be reviewed by the official representatives at the next Fall Meeting 4. High Speed Conveying ‐ TIR The survey of 500‐750rpm and 750‐1000rpm TIR data in the same format as the already approved 0‐500rpm TIR data has been circulated. The official representatives should make sure their engineering representative has that survey complete before the engineering meeting, with enough time to spare such that the data can be reviewed and presented at the engineering meeting. The next step is for the engineering committee to compile that data to be reviewed at the next Fall Meeting by the official representatives. 5. CEMA B105.1 Subcommittee Update Pulley chair person and vice‐chair person were not present. Therefore the pulley topics were not covered. Meeting adjourned at 7:55AM Jarrod Felton, Idler Chair

5672 Strand Ct., Suite 2 • Naples, Florida 34110 Tel: (239) - 514-3441 • Fax: (239) - 514-3470

Web Site: http://www.cemanet.org


MINUTES OF THE CEMA ENGINEERING CONFERENCE CONVEYOR IDLER COMMITTEE MEETING

LaPlaya Beach Resort, Naples, Florida


1. The Idler Committee convened at 8:30 a.m. with 47 people in attendance. See attached Attendance Roster.

2. Prior meeting minutes were approved with no comments 3. F and G idlers. A Survey among Idler Manufacturers was conducted to determine if there was

consensus on F and G Idler load ratings. See Attached Survey. Jarrod Felton reported results of subcommittee survey. The survey produced 2 responses. Five other manufacturers said they reviewed it and didn't have changes or an opinion on changes. The decision was made to put the surveyed information in the form of a proposal. A conference call will be set up to review the proposal so it can be submitted for the CEMA Fall Meeting.

4. 502 standard revisions. The revisions are complete. See Attached.

Metric values and a goal TIR section are new additions. The values in the TIR table were different than ISO, however the format is similar. An international standards review appendix was added as well. The consensus of the group was that the 502 standard was ready for an official OR ballot.

5. High speed conveying. Tim Wolf will chair the subcommittee to define a scope of work for 500‐

750 rpm and 750‐1000 rpm standard changes. Noise is a related topic and will be part of the scope. See paper on the Noise Issue attached.

6. New business: 5 roll idlers.

Dr. Robin Steven, Continental Contitech, presented a paper on 5‐roll idler design considerations (Attached). A synopsis of the basis for this was that on wider belts, rolls in a three roll idler system get too heavy and therefore a 5 roll idler system is preferred. Outside the US the 5 roll configuration is gaining popularity and Dr. Steven indicated there wasn't a known international standard for guidance. He suggested that CEMA has an opportunity to lead the industry and fill that void. Following the presentation, it was decided to seek guidance from the OR group on next steps.

7. Jarrod Felton of Superior Industries and Jim Masek of Precision Pulley & Idler were elected chair

and vice chair with terms ending in 2018.

8. The Committee adjourned at 9:26AM

Respectfully submitted, Tim Wolf, Chair


BW CEMA B CEMA C CEMA D CEMA E CEMA F CEMA G BW CEMA B CEMA C CEMA D CEMA E CEMA F CEMA G

18 410 900 18 220 475

24 410 900 1200 24 190 325 600

30 410 900 1200 30 165 250 600

36 410 900 1200 1800 36 155 200 600 1000

42 390 850 1200 1800 42 140 150 500 1000

48 380 800 1200 1800 48 125 125 425 1000

54 750 1200 1800 54 375 925

60 700 1150 1800 3000 60 280 850 1500

66 1800 66 215 775

72 1050 1800 3000 4250 72 155 700 1200 2200

78 1800 78 125 625

84 1800 3000 4250 84 550 900 1800

90 90 475

96 1750 2800 4250 96 400 600 1400

102 102 250

108 3600 108 1000

114 114

120 3000 120 600

20° 35° 45°

60 (1524) 3000 (1361) 3000 (1361) 1500 (680) **

72 (1829) 3000 (1361) 3000 (1361) 1200 (544) **

78 (1981) 3000 (1361) 3000 (1361) 900 (408) **

96 (2438) 2800 (1270) 2800 (1270) 600 (272) **

72 4,250 2,200 **

78

84 4250 1800

90

96 4250 1400

102

108 3600 1000

114

120 3000 600

CEMA G Idlers

TABLE 2‐16

Ratings Based on Min L10 of 60,000 Hours at 500 RPM

Rigid Frame and Catenary Where Applicable

** For Vee Returns Consider Using CEMA "E" Series

CEMA F Idlers

TABLE 2‐15

Ratings Based on Min L10 of 60,000 Hours at 500 RPM

Rigid Frame and Catenary Where Applicable

** For Vee Returns Consider Using CEMA "E" Series

Idler ClassBelt Width inches

(mm)

Trough Angle

Single Roll

ReturnTwo Roll Vee

Company:

CEMA LOAD RATINGS AND CAPACITIES TABLES

Load Ratings for CEMA Idlers ‐ Rigid Frame Lbs (kg)

The CEMA Idler Section is seeking consensus on values for the proposed CEMA G Troughing and Return Idlers. Your

Company's input is important to us. Please follow the instructions in the note below and submit your company's

ballot to Tim Wolf at PPI.

TROUGHING IDLER SINGLE ROLL RETURN

** NOTE: The blue values are the recommendations of the engineering sub‐committee. Please overwrite them

with your vote. Leaving them the same, or not returning a ballot implies the values are ok as is. **

Submitteed By:

High Speed Conveying CEMA Roll Run‐Out

CEMA intends to provide guidance on acceptable Total Indicator Reading (TIR) for idlers on high speed conveyors with

rolls running 500 – 750 rpm and 750 – 1000 rpm. This survey is being distributed to Idler Manufacturers to gather data

prior to the next CEMA meeting. Results will be confidential, manufacturers will not be associated with survey responses.

CEMA Standard 502 provides Table 1‐1 to show the acceptable TIR for steels rolls with roll speeds of 500 rpm or less.

Table 1‐1

Roll Length

Allowable Steel Roll Run‐Out

(≤ 500 rpm)

Diameter

≤ 5 in (127mm)

Diameter

˃ 5 in (127mm)

in mm in mm in mm

≤ 21 ≤ 533 0.032 0.8 0.036 0.9

˃ 21 to 36 ˃ 533 to 914 0.036 0.9 0.042 1.1

˃ 36 to 55 ˃ 914 to 1397 0.055 1.4 0.065 1.7

˃ 55 to 98 ˃ 1397 to 2489 0.078 2.0 0.095 2.4

According to the table, the allowable TIR for steel rolls can vary from 0.032 in (0.8 mm) to 0.095 in (2.4 mm) depending

on roll length and diameter. If the rolls are lagged, an additional allowance of 0.039 in (1 mm) is added to the allowable

values of Table 1‐1. For belt scale rolls, the TIR is limited to an allowable value of 0.015 in (0.38 mm).

Please complete the following survey:

Place an X in the appropriate box

Our company does not have enough experience with high speed applications.

Our company is familiar with high speed applications. Please fill out the following tables.

Please save the form to preserve your inputs and send it to Phil Hannigan at CEMA HQ [email protected]

Roll Length


(500 rpm to 750 rpm)

Diameter

≤ _ in ( mm)

Diameter

˃ _ in ( mm)

In mm in mm in mm

≤ ≤ ˃ to ˃ to ˃ to ˃ to ˃ to ˃ to

Roll Length


(750 rpm to 1000 rpm)

Diameter

≤ _ in (mm)

Diameter

˃ _ in (mm)

in mm in mm in mm

≤ ≤ ˃ to ˃ to ˃ to ˃ to ˃ to ˃ to

in mm in mm in mm

≤ 21 ≤ 533 0.032 0.8 0.036 0.9

TIR Roll Run Out Survey

Allowable Steel Roll Run‐Out (≤ 500 rpm)

Roll Length Diameter Diameter

≤ 5 in (127mm) ˃ 5 in (127mm)

˃ 21 to 36 ˃ 533 to 914 0.036 0.9 0.042 1.1

˃ 36 to 55 ˃ 914 to 1397 0.055 1.4 0.065 1.7

˃ 55 to 98 ˃ 1397 to 2489 0.078 2 0.095 2.4

Company AAllowable Steel Roll Run‐Out (500 rpm to

750 rpm)

Allowable Steel Roll Run‐Out (750 rpm to

1000 rpm)

In mm in mm in mm in mm in mm in mm

≤ ≤ ≤ ≤

˃ to ˃ to ˃ to ˃ to



p )

˃ _ in (mm)

p )Roll Length Diameter Diameter Roll Length Diameter Diameter

≤ _ in ( mm) ˃ _ in ( mm) ≤ _ in (mm)

0.030" 0.015"

In mm in mm in mm In mm in mm in mm

≤ 21 ≤ 533 0.029 0.75 0.034 0.85 ≤ 21 ≤ 533 0.028 0.70 0.032 0.80

Company BAllowable Steel Roll Run‐Out (500 rpm to

750 rpm)


1000 rpm)Diameter

≤ 5 in ( 127 mm) ˃ 5 in ( 127 mm) ≤ 5 in ( 127 mm) ˃ 5 in ( 127 mm)

Roll Length Diameter Diameter Roll Length Diameter

˃ 21 to 36 ˃ 533 to 914 0.034 0.85 0.039 1.00 ˃ 21 to 36 ˃ 533 to 914 0.032 0.80 0.036 0.90

˃ 36 to 55 ˃ 914 to 1397 0.049 1.25 0.059 1.55 ˃ 36 to 55 ˃ 914 to 1397 0.042 1.10 0.055 1.40

˃ 55 to 98 ˃ 1397 to 2489 0.073 1.85 0.087 2.20 ˃ 55 to 98 ˃ 1397 to 2489 0.065 1.70 0.078 2.00

Company CAllowable Steel Roll Run‐Out (500 rpm to

750 rpm)


1000 rpm)DiameterRoll Length Diameter Diameter Roll Length Diameter


≤ ≤ 0.028 0.032 ≤ ≤ 0.024 0.027

˃ to ˃ to 0.032 0.037 ˃ to ˃ to 0.027 0.032

˃ to ˃ to 0.048 0.057 ˃ to ˃ to 0.041 0.049

˃ to ˃ to 0.068 0.083 ˃ to ˃ to 0.059 0.071

≤ _ in ( mm) ˃ _ in ( mm) ≤ _ in (mm) ˃ _ in (mm)

g g


≤ ≤ ≤ ≤


t t t t

Company D and Compane EAllowable Steel Roll Run‐Out (500 rpm to

)


) Diameter

≤ _ in ( mm) ˃ _ in ( mm) ≤ _ in (mm) ˃ _ in (mm)

Roll Length Diameter Diameter Roll Length Diameter

X Our company does not have enough experience with high speed applications.



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