butler v. porsche - join class action lawsuits

Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, IncCase No.

CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT

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Roy A. Katriel (SBN 265463)THE KATRIEL LAW FIRM, P.C.4225 Executive Square, Suite 600La Jolla, California 92037Telephone: (858) 242-5642Facsimile: (858) 430-3719E-mail: [email protected]

Michael D. Braun (SBN 167416)BRAUN LAW GROUP, P.C.1999 Avenue of the Stars, Suite 1100Los Angeles, California 90067Telephone: (310) 836-6000Facsimile: (310) 836-6010E-mail: [email protected]

Counsel for Plaintiff Paul Butler and the Putative Class

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

PAUL B. BUTLER, On Behalf OfHimself And All Others SimilarlySituated,

Plaintiff,

vs.

PORSCHE CARS NORTH AMERICA,INC.,

DDefendant.

CASE NO.

CLASS ACTION

COMPLAINT

JURY TRIAL DEMANDED

Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 of 13

2Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,Case No. CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT

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NATURE OF THE ACTION

1. Plaintiff Paul B. Butler (“Plaintiff” or “Butler”), a resident of California and

owner of a 2007 Porsche 911 vehicle, brings this action on behalf of himself and all

other similarly situated owners and lessees within California of 2005-2008 Porsche 911

vehicles (“the Class Vehicles”).1 As detailed, herein, the Class Vehicles are equipped

with a defective alternator cable that, due to its defective nature, malfunctions and

thereby prevents the alternator from properly charging the battery. As a result of the

defective alternator cable, the vehicle battery is left insufficiently charged, potentially

rendering the vehicle inoperable as there is insufficient electric charge to power the car.

Vehicles driven at the time the charge dissipates can be rendered disabled in the middle

of a road or highway. If the failure occurs in the evening, or during rain, the insufficient

battery charge may also render the vehicle’s headlights and other electrical equipment

inoperable even before the vehicle is disabled. Either situation poses a real and

significant safety risk.

2. Defendant Porsche Cars North America, Inc. (“Defendant” or “Porsche”)

has known about this defect but has failed to make any disclosure of it and has failed to

take any corrective action. Plaintiff, whose vehicle suffered the fate of a depleted

battery due to a defective alternator cable, therefore, brings this action to seek redress for

Porsche’s violations of the California Consumer Legal Remedies Act (“CLRA”) and

Unfair Competition Law (“UCL”). This Class Action Complaint seeks only equitable,

injunctive, and declaratory relief. Following the filing of this Class Action Complaint,

Plaintiff, through his counsel, will serve Porsche with a CLRA demand letter pursuant to

California Civil Code, § 1782. If, within the 30-day statutory demand notice period

following service of Plaintiff’s CLRA demand letter, Porsche does not provide the full

and complete relief demanded in the letter, then Plaintiff intends to amend this pleading

1 911 models are also referred to by Porsche as the 997 model.



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to include, inter alia, a claim for money damages under the CLRA as is permitted under

California Civil Code, § 1782(d).

JURISDICTION AND VENUE

3. This Court has subject matter over this action pursuant to the Class Action

Fairness Act, 28 U.S.C. § 1332 (as amended 2005) because the Class Action Complaint

pleads a class action involving more than $5 million in controversy, and involves a

putative plaintiff class of diverse citizenship (California) than Defendant (Georgia).

4. This Court has personal jurisdiction over Defendant Porsche Cars North

America, Inc. because Defendant markets and distributes Porsche automobiles, including

the Class Vehicles, within California and this judicial district.

5. Venue is proper in this district because Plaintiff Butler is a resident of this

judicial district, his vehicle malfunctioned and was repaired within this judicial district,

such that the events giving rise to his claims took place within this judicial district.

Venue in this district is therefore proper pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1391.

THE PARTIES AND PLAINTIFF’S EXPERIENCES

6. Plaintiff Paul B. Butler is a resident of San Jose, California in Santa Clara

County, and the owner of a 2007 Porsche 911 S C2 Cabriolet. Just a few months ago,

when the vehicle had approximately 78,000 miles, and shortly after Mr. Butler had

replaced the battery with a brand new, fully charged battery, Mr. Butler found that the

key remained stuck in his vehicle and the car would not start. Plaintiff brought his

vehicle in for inspection and repair to Porsche of Stevens Creek, a Porsche factory-

authorized dealership in Santa Clara, California. The dealership mechanic found that

Mr. Butler’s new battery, indeed, was insufficiently charged, registering only 11.2 volts,

so the dealer recharged the battery to a reading of approximately 12.6 volts. Yet, when

the dealership’s mechanic next checked the charging system, he found that the charging

system was “insufficient.” The output voltage at the car’s alternator was measured to

read 13 volts, yet when measured at the battery, the reading only yielded 12.6 volts, a



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voltage drop of 0.4 volts across the wiring harness from alternator to the battery. The

Porsche dealership’s mechanic then removed and replaced the alternator, and retested the

system. Again, the charging was found to be insufficient, even with a new alternator,

with now a 0.8 voltage drop between the “good battery and alternator.” Only when the

dealership mechanic replaced the wiring harness from the alternator did the car’s

charging system work properly and charge the battery to a full 14.4 volts, such that all

the faults could be cleared. Plaintiff was billed and paid $3,180.44 for this repair work.

A true and correct copy of the Porsche of Stevens Creek repair order is attached hereto

as Exhibit 1.

7. Defendant Porsche Cars North America, Inc. (“Defendant” or “Porsche”) is

a Delaware corporation having its principal place of business at One Porsche Drive in

Atlanta, Georgia 30354. Established in 1984, Defendant is the exclusive importer of

Porsche vehicles for the United States and is a wholly owned subsidiary of Dr. Ing. h.c.

F. Porsche AG, which is headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany. As such, Defendant was

the entity responsible for injecting Plaintiff’s Porsche vehicle and the Class Vehicles into

the United States stream of commerce.

INTRADISTRICT ASSIGNMENT

8. Pursuant to Civil Local Rules 3-2(e) and 3-5(b), Plaintiff alleges that this

action should be assigned to this Court’s San Jose Division. Plaintiff is a resident of San

Jose, California and his allegedly defective vehicle is and, at all times relevant, was

found there. The vehicle malfunctioned in San Jose, and was repaired at Porsche of

Stevens Creek, a Porsche factory-authorized dealership in Santa Clara, California. Thus,

the events giving rise to Plaintiff’s claims all arose in Santa Clara County.

THE PERVASIVE NATURE OF THE PROBLEM

9. Plaintiff’s experience with a defective wiring between the alternator and the

battery is hardly anomalous. Instead, it is a pervasive defect documented in Porsche 997



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Class Vehicles across the country. Upon information and belief, the defect in the Class

Vehicles appears to be attributable to a defect in the selection of material, gauge or other

characteristic of the wiring or harness between the alternator or battery that results in

insufficient charging of the battery. So pervasive is the problem, that a host of message

boards for aggrieved Porsche owners has arisen online. Even a cursory sampling of

these online complaints evidences how commonplace the problem is.

10. Attached as Exhibit 2 hereto are postings at the online message board

6speedonline.com . The particular message board forum is entitled 05-06

Alternator/Cable Battery Issues and contains numerous postings by owners of the

Porsche Class Vehicles who have experienced this same issue. One such posting dated

August 9, 2013 from user “schicago” in Chicago, Illinois , for example, states:

Alternator CablePorsche should cover the cable and replacement. It is a widespread problem,and it proves that the design and location of the “Y” cable is faulty. Itshould not take 6+ hours to replace a Y cable.

Ex. 2 hereto at Page 8.

11. Another user, “Super Adjuster,” posted the following message on July 16,

2013:

I had a bad cable replaced. The trickle charger helped with the cold start butnot the hot start. The cable loses conductivity as it heats because it runs nearthe engine and transmission. So, the voltage from the battery cannot get tothe starter motor to start the engine after it is hot. I got stranded at a gasstation for quite a while because I couldn't get voltage to the starter. Jumpingdidn't help. I had to wait for the wire to cool.

So, sluggish starting after driving is the tale-tale symptom of a badalternator/starter cable. It's not the battery as so many are talked intoreplacing by misinformed service advisors.

Id., at Page 3.12. Yet another user, “AP 997S,” posted the following message on the forum

on the same day, July 16, 2013:



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Precisely the problem. I replaced my cable on my recently sold 2005 997 acouple of years ago and the problem was solved. Trickle chargingthe battery has little, if any, effect on a faulty (high resistancewire/connection) starter/alternator cable.

Forget the 'Battery Tender' and bite the bullet and get the cable replaced w/the latest version. If you're still under warranty or CPO PCNA shouldreplace it at no charge.

Please . . . . . no more suggestions to charge the battery!Id.

13. Porsche has known all along about the existence of the alleged defect.

Indeed, by the time that Plaintiff’s 2007 model year vehicle was first sold, Porsche had

received numerous complaints about the insufficient charging brought about by the

defective wiring and wiring harness between the alternator and battery of the Class

Vehicles. So much so, that Porsche issued a Technical Service Bulleting (“TSB”)

instructing its dealership’s mechanics about the nature of this problem and directing

them to replace the wire. Yet, despite this knowledge of the defect and the TSB it issued

to its dealerships and mechanics, Porsche never made any disclosure to consumers or the

putative class members about the defect plaguing the Class Vehicles.

14. Rather than recalling or replacing the defective wire, even when the wiring

failed, Porsche has washed its hands of any responsibility and forced unsuspecting

consumers to pay for the replacement and repair. Plaintiff Butler, thus was charged

$3,180.44 by the Porsche dealership that replaced the defective wiring in his car.

15. At the same time, Porsche quietly discontinued using the same wiring in

future model years of the Porsche 997 vehicles. Upon information and belief, following

the 2007 model year for the 997 Porsche vehicles, Porsche began using a different

version of the wiring between the alternator and battery that no longer presents the

alleged defect. Yet, while it did so for post-2007 model year 997 vehicles, Porsche left

in place the old defective wiring and took no action with respect to the Class Vehicles.

16. Because the insufficient charging of the electrical system brought about by



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the allegedly defective wiring poses a real and serious safety risk and hazard, Porsche

had a legal duty to disclose to owners of the Class Vehicles the existence of this defect,

but failed to do so.

CLASS ACTION ALLEGATIONS

17. Pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 23, Plaintiff brings this action

as a class action on behalf of all owners within California of the Class Vehicles.

Specifically excluded from the class are all judicial officers assigned to this case, as well

as all federal and state employees, and the employees of Defendant or its corporate

affiliates. Also excluded from the class definition are any individuals who allegedly

have suffered personal injuries as a result of the alleged defects. Plaintiff reserves the

right to amend or supplement this class definition as discovery or other case

development warrant.

18. Although the exact number of class members is presently unknown,

Plaintiff is informed and believes and thereon alleges, based on the prevalence of

Porsche 911 vehicles sold and present in California that the class will number in the

thousands of consumers, thereby making joinder impracticable.

19. Class certification is also appropriate because there are questions of fact

and/or law that are common to the class members. Among these common questions of

fact and/or law are:

a. Whether Defendant is responsible for injecting allegedly defective

vehicles in to the United States’ stream of commerce;

b. Whether the subject vehicles are defective, and, if so, the nature of the

defect;

c. Defendant’s knowledge and Defendant’s concealment of the defect;

d. Whether Defendant violated (i) California’s UCL, (iii) the California

CLRA;

e. Whether class members are entitled to the relief sought, and if so, the

proper scope of such relief.



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20. Plaintiff’s claims are typical of the claims of the absent class members in

that Plaintiff, like all the absent class members, claims that he is a California resident and

owner of a Class Vehicle that was factory-equipped with defective wiring between the

car’s alternator and wiring that resulted in improper or insufficient charging of the car’s

electrical system. Plaintiff is a member of the class he seeks to represent, and the claims

he advances on his own behalf are identical to the claims asserted on behalf of the class.

21. Plaintiff is an adequate class representative in that, as a member of the class

and as a current owner of an allegedly defective Class Vehicle, Plaintiff’s interests are

entirely aligned with those of the class. There are no individual conflicts that prevent

Plaintiff from adequately representing the class. Plaintiff has also retained competent

counsel experienced in class action litigation.

22. Class certification is proper because common questions of fact and law

predominate over questions that may affect only individual members of the class. The

subject vehicles are manufactured on an assembly line setting, subject to a common

design and manufacturing plan, such that evidence of a defect in the wiring between the

alternator and the battery of the car would be one that would predominate over the entire

class membership, as would evidence of Defendant’s course of action, knowledge of the

alleged defect, and any alleged concealment thereof.

23. A class action presents a superior form of adjudication over individual

litigation. The costs of litigating this action against a large and sophisticated defendant

like Defendant in comparison to the recovery or relief sought would make individual

litigation impracticable. In addition, forcing individual litigation would risk the result of

inconsistent rulings with respect to Defendant’s duties owed to the various vehicle

owners and lessees.

24. A class action is manageable. The proposed class represents an identifiable

community that can be readily identified, and the relief sought is one that can be

overseen by the Court.



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COUNT I(VIOLATION OF THE CALIFORNIA CONSUMER LEGAL REMEDIES

ACT, CAL. CIV. CODE §1750 et. seq.)25. Plaintiff hereby incorporates by reference each of the preceding allegations

as though fully set forth herein.

26. Defendant has violated the following provisions of Cal. Civ. Code §1750

et. seq.:

(a) Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(5): by representing that its goods or services have

sponsorship, approval, characteristics, ingredients, uses, benefits, or quantities which

they do not have;

(b) Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(7): by representing that its goods or services are of

a particular standard, quality, or grade, if they are of another;

(c) Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(9): by advertising goods and services with the

intent not to sell them as advertised;

(d) Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(14): by representing that its subscription service

confers or involves rights, remedies, or obligations which it does not have or involve;

(e) Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(16): by representing that the subject of a

transaction has been supplied in accordance with a previous representation when it has

not.

27. Defendant undertook the above and acts or practices in transactions

intended to result, or which did result, in the sale of its vehicles to customers for

personal, family, or household use.

28. Plaintiff and the members of the putative class are all “consumers” within

the meaning of the CLRA.

29. Because the defective wiring, which results in insufficient charging of the

car’s electrical system, poses a real and serious safety risk (which could lead to the car

being totally disabled or having any of its electrical components rendered inoperable

without prior warning), Porsche had a duty to disclose to class members the existence of



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this defect. Porsche failed to disclose this defect to Plaintiff or members of the putative

class.

30. Defendant has therefore violated the Consumers Legal Remedies Act, and

in this pleading, Plaintiff prays for declaratory, equitable and injunctive relief authorized

by that Act.

31. Pursuant to Cal. Civ. Code §1782, Plaintiff will serve Defendant with a

written demand letter, setting forth Plaintiff’s claims and demand. If, after 30 days of

receipt of that demand letter, Defendant fails to provide the full and complete requested

relief demanded in Plaintiff’s CLRA letter, Plaintiff intends on then amending this Class

Action Complaint to, at that time, also assert a claim for money damages for the

violations of the CLRA alleged.

COUNT II

(VIOLATION OF CALIFORNIA’S UNFAIR COMPETITION LAW, CAL. BUS.

AND PROFESSIONS CODE, § 17200 ET. SEQ.).

32. Plaintiff hereby incorporates by reference each and every allegation of this

Class Action Complaint with the same force and effect as if it these allegations had been

fully restated herein.

33. California’s Unfair Competition Law (“UCL”) prohibits and makes

actionable any unlawful, unfair, or deceptive business practice. Defendant’s actions, as

alleged herein, in connection with the marketing and distribution of the Class Vehicles

with a latent defect to their wiring between the alternator and battery amount to, at least,

an unlawful and deceptive business practice and, hence, a violation of the UCL.

34. For at least the reasons alleged in Count I of this Class Action Complaint,

Porsche’s actions are an unlawful business practice in that Porsche’s violation of the

CLRA is independently an unlawful business practice that is actionable under the UCL.

35. Porsche’s marketing, distribution, and sale through its factory-authorized

dealers of the subject vehicles without disclosing the existence of the latent defect



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plaguing the cars’ wiring also amounts to a deceptive business practice within the

meaning of the UCL. The conduct was deceptive because it was intended to and did

mislead and deceive Plaintiff and the class members. Had Porsche disclosed to Plaintiff

that the Class Vehicle contained a latent defect that would result in his vehicle being

rendered non-driveable when it did, even when equipped with a brand new battery

and/or alternator, Plaintiff would not have purchased his vehicle or paid as much as he

did for it. Defendant knew that if it were to make such a disclosure as to the existence of

this latent defect, consumers at large would feel and react similarly and forego their

purchases of these vehicles or pay less for them. As a result, Porsche intentionally

elected to conceal its knowledge of this existing latent defect.

36. As a direct, proximate, and foreseeable result of Porsche’s unlawful and/or

deceptive business practice, Plaintiff and the putative class members have sustained an

ascertainable loss in that: they are left with a significant expense to have their vehicles

repaired to remedy the defective wiring (for example, Plaintiff was charged and paid

$3,180.44 for the repair work necessitated by the defective wiring in his Class Vehicle);

their vehicles have sustained a loss or diminution of value as a result of this undisclosed

defect; and, have or will incur incidental damages attributable to the loss of use of the

vehicle during the time that the vehicles are being repaired.

37. Moreover, Plaintiff and the class members conveyed monies and benefits to

Porsche in the form of, inter alia, the purchase price or lease payments for their vehicles,

and the repair and parts costs for their vehicles to repair the damage caused by the defect

at issue.

38. Plaintiff and the class members are entitled to and do seek an order of

restitution forcing Porsche to restore to them the benefits and monies they conveyed to

Porsche in connection with their purchase of the subject vehicles or any repair or

replacement of the defective wiring of these vehicles.



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PRAYER FOR RELIEF

WHEREFORE, Plaintiff and the class members pray for judgment against

Defendant as follows:

a) That the Court determine that this action may be litigated as a class action, and

that Plaintiff and his counsel be appointed class representative and class

counsel, respectively;

b) That the Court enter judgment against Defendant and in favor of Plaintiff and

the class on all counts;

c) That Defendant be ordered to bear the cost of notice the absent class members;

d) That restitution or disgorgement be awarded to each Plaintiff and class member

according to proof;

e) That the Court enter appropriate declaratory relief, declaring the vehicles

defective and setting forth Defendant’s obligations with respect to the repair of

the defect, and provide any and all appropriate equitable or injunctive relief in

favor of the members of the Class to effectuate this relief;

f) That Plaintiff and the class members be awarded all such other relief as this

Court deems just and proper.

Plaintiff requests a jury trial on all counts so triable.



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Dated this 19th day of April, 2016.

Respectfully submitted,

/s/ Roy A. Katriel_________________Roy A. Katriel (SBN 265463)THE KATRIEL LAW FIRM4225 Executive Square, Suite 600La Jolla, CA 92037Telephone: (858) 242-5642Facsimile: (858) 430-3719e-mail: [email protected]

Michael D. Braun (SBN 167416)BRAUN LAW GROUP, P.C.1999 Avenue of the Stars, Suite 1100Los Angeles, California 90067Telephone: (310) 836-6000Facsimile: (310) 836-6010e-mail: [email protected]

Counsel for Plaintiff Paul Butler and the Putative Class


Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1-1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 1 of 4

EXHIBIT 1 TO COMPLAINT

Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Ina,

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harness. Removed and replaced alternator. Retested system-alternator outPut Proper: fOund voltage'OPP of POWerharnesS excessive. .BV drop with.good battery andalternator,RemOved -and replaced power harneas from trans tb alternator.Also replated seeping breather line frommaPcr seParator tointake. Tested- system functioning properly. charging It14.4V to battery. All faults cleared. adeptions set-

PARTS. QTY, -FP-NUMBER1 997-503-022:-EX GENERATOR 123834 1238.741 999=703-257-40 BUSH.. 4.00 4.00-1 997-503-022-EX CORE RETURN 155.74 -155.74.1, 997-107-145-02 DISTRIBUTCR LI 131.00 131.00.1 997-507-01943. -AS CABLE LOON 175.00 175.00

TOTAL PARTS 1393.00G--06; & SUPPLIES.,,FREIGHT (PARTS). 75.54

TOTAL GOO 75.54NISO-----COOE-- -.-DESCRIPTION-.,. '(A0,41ROL NOPOI PORSCHE 10t PARTS DISCOUNT -139.30P02 PORSCHE 10t.LaR DISCOUNT -193.50

TOTAL. MISC. -332.60108# imks-.

LABOR •1935.00PARTS 1393.00G.O.G. 75.54HISC, -032.80

mit .2 alv,, 2C6# 1 JOURNAL PREFIX POCS JOB#. 1 TOTAL 3070.74

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I L07-12-2013, 11:25AM;Join Date: Dec 2009Location: CT USAPosts: 162°41114110% sullivas8Rep Power: 13

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Before my extended warranty runs out I'd like to make sure the alternator cable is not one of thefaulty ones.

Was there a TSB on the matter? I have searched but can't flnd one. If there is one, does anyone issPeenorxineknow the number? Thanks.COM

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4/15/2016 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue.- 8SpeedOnline Porsche Forum and Luxury Car ResourceNisiommattikeleilibeimillail cIve en a c2vcs aNte WI W'CLAil '46111.1.16211.1.111111"1111.1111111111.111111

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Join Date: Oct 2006 ii.tiLtiiocaon: Hermosa Beach .1. Giohalmotof. munoPosts: 1, 013-4-, AP 9975 Re• Power: 61.

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I dont believe there was a TSB for that problem. If you simply tell your SA that your car really, r

cranks slow when warm and have them check the resistance.: gmeii.Refer to thefollowing:..ii.htto://rennsportkc.com/Dorsche-997-a—t-kansas-ci••tv/,.

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1314LIN$htto://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...w-voltage.htmi2014 98105 ‘10WilLAEAFORMANCESHOOLCOht2005 997$Launch Car Gone2001 986$-Gone.1956 356AGone, -STREE-HS1 'AN DAp

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u 07-13-2013, 10:28 AM 41 i

Join Date: Dec 2009. gor/a.Location: CT USA.Posts: 162 pfg.rofirkr4,,V /ffri$1.etIVsullivas Rep Power: 13.i:.0,0

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i tslhahncccelEnierctThanksAP.

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113 QUOTE. ASSP ‘STARMAC FR r;t:

i 0744-2013, 04:00 PM

iloin Date: Apr 7007.Gpjli Location: long island

4 Posts: 1,303. 840MBACHER''i Registered User amPeieffi4j4

EVOSPEE:12.i Trickle charger makes this a non issue and prolongs battery life. I would think though that if youhad this problem you'd know by now. •fr 4...n.13:13y kogitstel:m.,1,4

112 QUOTE.

Li m 113 ns.ln PIA 415.4V00'kgi

nir-3494300-A.0810/Pe Join Date: Oct2006.

i, ..ar Location: Flerrnosa Beach: IIMI-11040=01P0111:11E._Posts: 1,013

Allftio.. AP 997S Re. Power: 61 I

11.1‘11,11r.Registered User Ig:310, ;74movkm4k4

Z.i Quote: NET CAROriginally Posted by GpjliZJ,;Trickle charger makes this a non issue and prolongs battery life. I would think though,1.that if you had this problem you'd know by now.

..:;1,tIt's not a battery problem but a voltage drop across the cable due to wire size and/or.terminations.

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Suf.,4031:1A,...sTL.::. 07-15-2013, 0923 AM #6;. Al

PORSCH t: str„Join Date: Apr 2007 R!IGpjli Location: long island,.Posts: 1,303 i

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4/15/2016 05-06 Altemator/Batteiy Cable Issue -6SpeedOnline Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource

iaPower: 74:KegisteredUser.

3--c..1„_•ttruMw., tur 1g CornQuote:.

1 SCO,i21,o -2I Originally Posted by AP 997S 0It's not a battery problem but a voltage drop across the cable due to wire size and/or: 3W 11.).. nisrrioionmterminations.

Law:, automgc. Acceslmas

(702) 430-66221, As long as I keep battery on charger a couple days a week I do not have the problem. State of lcharge seems to be a factor in my experience. This is not a solution of course. -;146--la QUOTE ?=:trit--1Eri

rY\P:',L'i.,U07-16-2013, 10:47 AM

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Join Dte: Dec 2009,Location:aCT USA 888.250.9074

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I always have the Battery Tender on. What's weird is that after I drive the car it takes a while:for the Tender to go green. Could take hours, you'd think after a long drive a 1 year old battery ESMOTORwould not need more charging.If I put a voltmeter in the cig outlet while driving the car at flrst it registers 14+ charge but afterit gets hot the charging drops to 13.3-13.6. If there's an issue I want to get it resolved before my1€ EW runs out.

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Join Date: Jan 2012 4: wv,wElivh,,, e.:R.,e,no con,Posts: 273,

ir Power: 16SuperAdjuster. K..,

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stinverpktisI had a bad cable replaced. The trickle charaer helped wfth the cold start but not the hot start.The cable loses conductivity as it heats because it runs near the engine and transmission. So, thevoltage from the battery cannot get to the starter motor to start the engine after it is hot. I got itti zotosupERsmittestranded at a gas station for quite a while because I couldn't get voltage to the starter. Jumpingdidn't help. I had to wait for the wire to cool. 4411.11141,t'ii.'

PAM'MIAMINI.MUNSo, sluggish starting after driving is the tale-tale symptom of a bad alternator/starter cable. It'sE

1.1111.53.1.1%;4142111not the battery as so many are talked into replacing by misinformed service advisors.

Currently.€-N2006 Carrera 4Scab.

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L J07-16-2013, 11:53 AM #9,DE I NWHP, K5

Join Date: Oct 2006,"V Location: Hermosa Beach.Posts: 1, 013

alimpirer: 61

amovemfRegistered UserliOTORsPoirr4.

Precisely the problem. I replaced my cable on my recently sold 2005 997 a couple of years agoand the problem was solved. Trickle charging the battery has little, if any, effect on a faulty (high

Cileic, To Save Onresistance wire/connection) starter/alternator cable. li lI A F TFRMA Pa TI- Forget the 'Battery Tender' and bite the bullet and get the cable replaced w/ the latest version. If AT SUFPFAISIIIVyou're still under warranty or CPO PCNA should replace it at no charge.,.

Please no more suggestions to charge the battery!

Originally Posted by Super Adjuster alI had a bad cable replaced. The trickle charger helped with the cold start but not the hotstart. The cable loses conductivity as it heats because it runs near the engine and

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4/15/2016 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue 6SpeedOnline Porsche Forum and Luxuty Car Resource

transmission. So, the voltage from the battery cannot get to the starter motor to start:I: the engine after it is hot. I got stranded at a gas station for quite a while because I1: couldn't get voltage to the starter. Jumping didn't help. I had to wait for the wire to cool.:

g So, sluggish starting after driving is the tale-tale symptom of a bad alternator/starter drAcable. It's not the battery as so many are talked into replacing by misinformed service

11 advisors. 111E511111i; 2014 98105

2005 997S Launch Car Gone!I 2001 986SGone:

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I i _107-17-2013, 08:57 PM #1.a: 1:71....itierJoin Date: Jul 2C08 j;1 Bnrnlejo Location: MA

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i.Posts: 59.gistered User fialliower: 13 Irk.

Good to know about this, going by the thread title it seems this is not an Issue with 07s and up?: ..6, 1l., EL Trrwa-7va-rr a:Can anybody confirmthat?,

10 QUOTE

i I:1 07-18-2013, 08:56 AM #.a. I

Join Date: Mar 2012JimKan Location: New Brunswick lli.j... Posts: 4 :1Registered User Rep Power: 0

i I've seen a detailed how to replace the cable here on 6speed.

jia quoTE.

U07-18-2013, 10:35 AM #12 1

il sill livas Power: 13

Registered User

RepIIJoinDate: Dec 2009 ll

Location: CT USA I:Posts: 162

ii Quote:

Originally Posted by BanilejoGood to know about this, going by the thread title it seems this is not an issue with 075and up? Can anybody confirm that?

I believe they beefed up the cable for 06, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

QUOTE

1:02xl #12 I

j‘k* Join Date: :Ian 2012Posts: 2734°'Rep Power: 16

Adjuster so

Registered User;Z,

Mine is an 06 C4S cab and needed the cable replacement. My dealer charged the aftermarketwarranty company about $1200 for the job. I've heard of quotes as high as $1900. The part is

j only a couple hundred, but there's lots of labor. The wire snakes through many tight spots.

j Currently2006 Carrera 4S cab2008 Cayenne S2007 Chevy Avalanche LTZ 4WDElite Pro-150FD

QuoTE

#14

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4115/2016 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue 6SpeedOnine Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource107-18-2013, 05:09 PM

Gpjli Join Date: Apr 2007 Page5-Location: long islandPosts: 1,303

Registered Usern Power: 74

assf&SMED

Quote:

Originally Posted by AP 997S EPrecisely the problem. I replaced my cable on my recently sold 2005 997 a couple ofyears ago and the problem was solved. Trickle charging the battery has little, if any,effect on a faulty (high resistance wire/connection) starter/alternator cable.

Forget the 'Battery Tender' and bite the bullet and get the cable replaced w/ the latestversion. If you're still under warranty or CPO PCIVA should replace it at no charge.Please no more suggestions to charge the battery!

find that a problem. 01

Excuse me. Let me be clear here. I own an 06 S and am on my second battery.

From,the outsetof ownership my experience has been that without the trickle charge I get hot start/slow crank

issue. With it I do not. Make what you like of that but you being argumentative changes nothing.I understand the nature of the problem. This has worked for me as I am reporting. Sorry if you

111 QUOTE

107-19-2013, 12:33 AM 441

Join Date: Jun 2012Location: Calgarye kellym Posts: 16Rep Power: 0

Registered User

I've had slow crank issues as well, to the point of getting a dead battery and I've been strandedseveral times while parked away from home. The battery was less than a year old at the time,1- although it was some OEM brand the previous owner put in. I took my 911 into my dealer under.CPO warranty and they replaced the alternator cable at no charge, thinking they solved theproblem. My car is a 2005 C2S.

Something the dealer service rep told me was very interesting: the alternator does not always,charge the battery while driving. I was told this is for performance reasons. So my Porsche 997seems to be really hard on batteries, especially with stop-park-start again type driving aroundtown, and the battery really wears down.

Now with a new alternator cable and also a new Interstate battery I still sense some slowercranking after a bunch of driving-parking-driving again around town. I don't notice the slowercrank speeds at all if I've had the trickle charger on the night before, which tells me the batteryisn't getting fully charged on some of my drives. I do like to take fast runs around somecloverleafs and really work the engine, but it's not always possible everyday. What do otherpeople experience when doing a lot of city driving?These experiences worry me a little bit and make me wonder if it's a good idea to even chargemy smartphone and run a radar detector at the same time around town, further killing the

i: battery if the alternator isn't charging it constantly. These electrical experiences are the onlything I don't like about my 911... not fun to get stranded and have to call for a boost. Twice.

Kelly

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107-19-2013, 0941 AM #16,1

Join Date: Apr 2007 I:- 4,Gpjli Location: long island4 Posts: 1,303

iRegistered User Wilirer: 74;i.

5

jair,110Quote:;

Originally Posted by kellymI've had slow crank issues as well, to the point of getting a dead battery and I've been

V., /et..S°stranded several times while parked away from home. The battery was less than a year Wold at the time, although it was some OEM brand the previous owner put in. I took my i, ir, s. zi, I 1911 into my dealer under CPO warranty and they replaced the alternator cable at nocharge, thinking they solved the problem My car is a 2005 C2S.

sspeeopfltineSomething the dealer service rep told me was very interesting: the alternator does not CTIMalways charge the battery while driving. I was told this is for performance reasons. So,

.4.......,my Porsche 997 seems to be really hard on batteries, especially with stop-park-startagain type driving around town, and the battery really wears down.

Now with a new alternator cable and also a new Interstate battery I still sense some REGISTER NOW >>>>>5>>>slower cranking after a bunch of driving-parking-driving again around town. I don't noticethe slower crank speeds at all if I've had the trickle charger on the night before, whichtells me the battery isn't getting fully charged on some of my ddves. I do like to takefast runs around some cloverleafs and really work the engine, but it's not always possible Visit our Sponsorseveryday. What do other people experience when doing a lot of city driving?

Vendor DiteCtOtVThese experiences worry me a little bit and make me wonder if it's a good idea to even

charge my smartphone and run a radar detector at the same time around town, furthert.• killing the battery if the alternator isn't charging it constantly. These electrical Inlet este=i =n AdvertErr=r2,,

i I. here.experiences are the only thing I don't like about my 911... not fun to get stranded and

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4/15/2016, 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue Page 2 6SpeedOnine Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource

II have to call for a boost.Twice.,P:,

e8-.Kelly

This is why to me a trickle charger is a no brainer. Even when off and locked the drain on the mg/rimingbattery is constant (btw locking the car cuts down somewhat on battery drain). The generic of thePorsche charger can be had for under $100. Plugs into cigarette lighter. No guarantee it will stopthe cable related hot sthrt problem but it will keep you charged and batteries last longer. CTEKmakes the best one. Porsche puts their name on it and doubles the price. Got mine from Amazon6 years ago. Great stuff for modern cars es. those that are not used daily. Good luck:

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5, 'Alp .77,If 1,708-09-2013, 03:59 PM "17, l

Join Date: Nov 2004 "PC5schicago, Location: chicago, iPosts: 385Rep Power:0.Registered User

11

AlternatorCable.

lisillfrafiTs.Porshe should cover the cable and replacement. It is a widespread problem, and it proves that i Iir

the design and location of the "V" cable is faulty. IIt shoud not take 6+ hours to replace a Y cable.

06 997S Cab midnight blue /beige interior, blue top 1 ADAPIEC05 997 Cab atlas grey, sea blue/with stone grey (traded).:daily drivers/ park where u can

I2002 Chrysler 300M,i:fI

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D08-10-2013, 05:33 AM #16 1 Assr.-...4,

arSSII, Join Date: Jul 2011.Location: Atlanta.Age: 44

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Has anyone seen a decent DYI post anywhere? Anyone attempted it?

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67faoffitif208-10-2013, 08:59 AM #12 PliOTORSPQRT.

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Join Date: Jun 2008,1, Locatbn: USA 0 :carhonPosts: 1,344.Dadio Rep Power: 94: ri..111 i, H

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iOriginally Posted by SlateC2S ZiHas anyone seen a decent DYI post anywhere? Anyone attemptedit?. I

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Quote:


4/15/2016 05-06 Alternalor/Batteiy Cable Issue Page 2 -6SpeedOnline -Porsche Forum and Luxury Car ResourceLink below to one DIY for the cable. Did the cable replacement using a post by Equinox but thelink below uses his info anyway so its almost identical. I did it on '07 C4S and if you have the;tools it's probably a 5 out of ten. Bulk of the procedure centers around getting stuff out of the I e9-way. The cable replacement part is the easiest part of the whole procedure. Difference is nothing ctiok To Savo OnleSS than remarkable. Car actually starts up like even the cheapest car on the planet now. Just,unbelievable that I had to replaCe a battery cable in my 100 K + Porsche to get it to start like a AR STRIIITS'20 year old FordTaurus., STRUTSAs for for a trickle charger being the work around, since I changed the cable I do not have to use.the trickle charger anymore which was a PIA. Trickle charger is great for storing your car for; I 1`long periods or over the winter but shouldn't be needed for short periods and definitely not a car.being used everyday.As to the question of wether or not you have the cable You have it unless you changed it out. IPorsche didn't change the cable on the 997.1 cars. Jor fie Distributing

1..1,3. Atlanct,.e

4cceo5.es

3.85 How to replace the alternatorcable.(702)43o-6622I,:

el QUOTE: i,i

i 1 08-10-2013, 09:11 AM #24 1.t PDF I 1A:

Join Date: Jun 2008

lifialLmtiliU1S4,1,Aadio,11.1 LOIVIAD„:

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Quote:681-846-78138

Originally Posted by GpjliE,This is why to me a trickle charger is a no brainer. Even when off and locked the drain onthe battery is constant (btw locking the car cuts down somewhat on battery drain). The,generic of the Porsche charger can be had for under $100. Plugs into cigarette lighter. No

or,guarantee it will stop the cable related hot start problem but it will keep you charged andbatteries last longer. CTEK makes the best one. Porsche puts their name on it and

tdoubles the price. Got mine from Amazon 6 years ago. Great stuff for modern cars,esp,those that are not used daily. Goodluck,,,f. ErViahneceelimi;MIMMINIMMEMIIMMIIIIMININE My '12 Jag XF sits for weeks at a time and starts immediately without the need of a trickle.

charger. A constant battery drain significant enough to render a batten/ the size of the one used i I ELAMICSIPIIIIAMin the 997 unable to start the car would not be normal IMO and should be sorted out.

10 QUOTE i; i:n.::.5 V,

D08-11-2013, 10:53 AMi

Join Date: Apr 2007 arailizAtati Gpjli Location: long islandPosts: 1, 303

liriaigicid,,i RegisteredUser.

Originally Posted by Dadio0.

iloo 7My '12 Jag XF sits for weeks at a time and starts immediately without the need of atrickle charger. A constant battery drain significant enough to render a battery the size ofthe one used in the 997 unable to start the car would not be normal IMO and should besorted out.

f •1111f ill..

1

Whatever you do, do NOT use a trickle charger(41,PraillAINEMy car starts cold after 4 or more weeks w/o charger also. What it does not do with charger is Il fruaricsexhibit slow hot restart issue which was original topic.

Would make sense to me that given a voltage drop of X (put in a number) due to increasedresistance of cable with engine hot, a battery that is fully charged will perform better than onethat is at say 75% or less due to parasitic drain or short trips.

I get that this is not the solution others want. It works for me though.84X/IflierPhIVTo my knowledge Jaguar does not have the issue that started this post in the first place.

I Glad you like your car though.

44vsoeijI

-Ul. CRIMEAROMBACHER"

08-11-2013, 07:36 PM

i Join Date: Jun 2008 El .1... A 0i Location: USA

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411512016 05-06 Alternator/Battery Cable Issue- Page 2 -6SpeedOnline -Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource

Rep Power' C'

Dadio mid% t, 1

IIIII.:::,, )a Q010-Reg istered UserIiii

acgttonionircL., nnOisseur GroupPericcrismeilfilasistExte'rretreisg[QUOTE=Gpjli;3914240]Whatever you do, do NOT use a trickle charger .4,4

87/422-4736"My car starts cold after 4 or more weeks w/o charger also. What it does not do with charger is:

i exhibit slow hot restart issue which was original topic." CgiggiTT0Nt

1 Since replacing the original Alternator to starter cable in my C4S with the improved cable my.i Porsche exhibits no slow restart issues, hot or cold, at all and it no longer needs to be on atrickle charger, battery booster, battery maintainer, Ctek, etc....period.

My Jag never suffered from a slow hot starting issue because it wasn't delivered with a poorly:4.

engineered alternator to battery cable. STUDIO RSRIf your car will not turn over when hot with the same enthusiasum as it does when cold I suggestyou have it tested for a deffective alternator to starter wiring harness. Slow starting shouldn't beexplained away as a unique Porsche design characteristic requiring constant battery charging4 intervention to overcome.

4,a CORE THE, -1 COils

08-12-2013, 0953 AM #22

Join Date: Apr 2007alai. Location: long island,it Posts: 1, 303 PORSCHERegistered User 7. 74PARTS 'I

A

1 [QUOTE=Dadio;3914443]Quote:

1I Originally Posted by Gpjli 1E

Whatever you do, do NOT use a trickle charger 'Q'l"My car starts cold after 4 or more weeks w/o charger also. What it does not do withcharger is exhibit slow hot restart issue which was original topic."

Since replacing the original Alternator to starter cable in my C4S with the improved cable:i; my Porsche exhibits no slow restart issues, hot or cold, at all and it no longer needs to;

11 be on a trickle charger, battery booster, battery maintainer, Ctek, etc....period.

My Jag never suffered from a slow hot starting issue because it wasn't delivered with apoorly engineered alternator to battery cable.

If your car will not turn over when hot with the same enthusiasum as it does when cold Isuggest you have it tested for a deffective alternator to starter wiring harness. Slowstarting shouldn't be explained away as a unique Porsche design characteristic requiringconstant battery charging intervention to overcome.

Oh here we are again. I see now. Here's my advice to you: Read my posts. If you still would liketo pursue what you think I should do and why I should do it PM me. Until then I will continue to;

1: enjoy my Porsche as I have for the past 7.5 years and 36K miles and trickle charge the batterywhen I am not driving it. By now neone still wasting their time on this thread knows what theproblem is and what the choices are. And use spellcheck. I'm outta here.

Last edited by Gpjli; 08-12-2013 at 09:57 AM.

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