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Dealing With Less Than Perfect Turn-Out

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Last time in our discussion on Vaganova in America, we read from Agrippina

Vaganova’s book which says that strict (180 degree) turn-out is necessary for the

student on track to becoming a professional. But what if you don’t have perfect

turn-out naturally?

There is an interesting chapter on turn-out in Gretchen Warren’s book, Classical

Ballet Technique, which makes mention of this issue. Warren’s bio does not say

that she is trained in the method of teaching classical ballet originating from

Russia, only that she studied at London’s Royal Ballet and the National Ballet

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School of Washington, D.C., however I thought it would be a good idea to look at

what teachers here in the West have to say about turn-out as well as what

Russian-trained pedagogues say.

A “Western” Opinion…

What Is Turn-Out?

First, Warren defines turn-out as a sum total of the leg’s external rotation: hip,

knee, tibia, ankle and foot (Hamilton, Physical Prerequisites, p. 64). She says

that the ideal 90 degrees (per leg) of outward rotation demanded of professional

ballet dancers is usually achieved with 60-70 degrees of external rotation coming

from above the knee and 20-30 degrees from below (Hardaker et al.,

Pathogenesis, p. 21). She goes on to emphasize that the force for turn-out of the




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legs must come from the hip down and not from the floor up; otherwise, it will be

forced from the knee which, being a hinge rather than a rotary joint, is not

designed to rotate.

What Muscles Should Be Used To MaintainTurn-Out?

Hip rotation is maintained, Warren says, by the hip rotator muscles and not the

gluteus muscles, as is often incorrectly assumed.*** The glutes are, however,

often used to stabilize the body in the turned-out position and can help the

dancer to feel and control turn-out.

*** “Incorrectly” is the term Warren uses and here I am paraphrasing her

opinion, which sounds a lot like what I have heard some physiotherapists say

as well. HOWEVER, I have also heard other ballet professionals (in the Russian

school of thought and otherwise) saying just the exact OPPOSITE: Turn-out

http://balletuni.com/2011/07/glutes-to-squeeze-or-not-to-squeez/




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should absolutely be maintained by the gluteus muscles. (Since this is an issue of

much controversy and confusion, I will cover this in more detail in a future

post.)

Update (11/11/13): Ok, now that I have learned how to teach the first year,

I am realizing how unimportant it is to worry about what the names of the

muscles are and which muscles are doing what… Vaganova herself always

said that it is not important to know the names of the muscles. What is

important is to follow a physiologically correct method of instruction (there

is only one) and by following that method the muscles will automatically be

doing what they are supposed to do.

In this case, if you are pulled up correctly, in the correct position and

executing the exercises correctly, then your muscles will HAVE to be

balanced in the way that we want for classical ballet. In other words, the

glutes will be tightened but not overused, the hip rotator muscles will be

http://balletuni.com/2011/07/glutes-to-squeeze-or-not-to-squeez/




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engaged in order to turn-out, and all of the muscles will develop properly

and efficiently (most notably the lower back will become very strong… this is

the “hallmark” that the critics in Russia noticed about the first dancers

trained by Vaganova) and without unwanted bulk all by FOLLOWING

TEACHING METHOD. No more studying human anatomy (although that is

a very interesting study, and my favorite subject in college, but I digress…),

no more memorizing where the various muscles are and what they do, no

more trying to be a kinesiologist-biomechanic-orthopaedic-yadda-yadda-

yadda-teacher, all you have to do is be a teacher of classical dance.

Ahhh. Nice how simple that is, isn’t it?

How Is Turn-Out Assessed?

To assess turn-out, Warren suggests having the individual lie on his or her back




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on the floor with both legs bent and drawn up as close as possible to the torso.

The soles of the feet are then pressed together, with the knees dropped

sideways, outward toward the floor. Most important, the lower back must be

pressed firmly against the floor. In this position, the closer the knees are to the

floor, the greater the degree of natural turn-out in the hip joints.

Warren Describes The Controversy Of Turn-Out

Next in her chapter on turn-out, Gretchen Warren explains her personal opinion

which I think pretty accurately describes the general consensus here in the

United States:

There is a great deal of controversy in the ballet world

regarding proper turn-out. Research has shown that with

children between the ages of eight and eleven (the

recommended period for beginning serious ballet




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training), it is sometimes possible to increase slightly the

degree of natural turn-out in the hip (i.e., that amount

with which an individual is born). The bone structure of

children in this age group is still malleable, and the repeated practice of ballet exercises in the

turned-out position seems to produce a torsional deformity of the femur (where it inserts into the

hip socket) which results in a permanently increased degree of rotation (Hamilton, Physical

Paramenters). For this reason many serious profesional ballet academies, such as those in the

Soviet Union, require that beginning students force their legs almost immediately into the 180

degree turned-out position. This is considered imperative to their future development as classical

dancers, and is probably not harmful to these students, whose extreme natural flexibility has been

ascertained in the careful physical screening they have undergone before being accepted for

training. Moreover, these beginner students practice daily in small classes in a painstakingly slow

manner, facing the barre, under the careful tutelage of teachers who are constantly on the lookout

for any sign of incorrect placement.

In the West, where commercial teachers are often faced with large beginner classes that do not

meet on a daily basis and may contain many youngsters whose bodies are less than ideally flexible,

the approach toward turn-out tends to be somewhat more conservative. In such situations, forcing

turn-out can be physically harmful and certainly should never be advocated for beginners who are

over twelve years old. A more gradual, less severe method of developing good rotation is

recommended.

My personal belief is that each student must be treated individually. Students who demonstrate the




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recommended degree of turn-out (on page 10) should be asked to use the maximum degree of

rotation possible for their bodies, provided that the training goes slowly and that careful

attention is paid to all aspects of correct placement. Students with less flexibility should be taught

to know their limitations and to work within them. Remember that it is generally impossible,

beyond the age of eleven, to increase the degree of outward rotation in the hip joint. However, most

dancers can learn to make the most of what they have, in such a way as to camouflage a less-than-

perfect degree of natural turn-out.

Very few human bodies possess the capacity for perfect turn-out. Students should remember that

they are trying to achieve more than the ability simply to turn their legs outward. Their goal must

be to develop the muscular strength to control and maintain their own maximum degree of

turn-out at all times while they are dancing.

Why I Don’t Entirely AgreeWarren has some wise points there, and I appreciate her caution and her

attention to injury prevention and individual assessment. Although I do not

know her personally, I can only imagine from reading her book that she is a very




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devoted and caring teacher and I hope that I could have the pleasure of meeting

her someday!

However, my thoughts are that she seems to be trying to represent the Russian

method (at least in part) but also contradicting certain things that the Russian

method really says, such as the best way to train the muscles in a turned-out

position. I am not at all an expert, but my research so far has lead me to the

conclusion that the method originating from Russia is the one method for

teaching classical ballet which has been developed in such a way as to be

scientifically–and physiologically–correct, and thus injury-free, therefore I tend

to take what Agrippina Vaganova says over Warren’s personal opinion where it

differs, as in this case. Let me explain what I mean…

Particularly, when it comes to a student with less-than-perfect turn-out (the vast

majority of students I would say), the issue of whether or not to TRAIN

TOWARDS 180 degree turn-out is a controversial one. While a “Western trained”

teacher would be more likely to leave the student in a less-than 180 degree




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position and ask for the leg to tendu or developpe slightly to the front, a teacher

trained in the method founded by Vaganova would ask for 180 degrees on the

second day of training. Now, Warren suggests that these teachers are “forcing”

turn-out (see quote above), which I very much believe is not true at all (listen to

my podcast on why turning out on the second day is NOT forced here), but then

she goes on to say that it is OK to “force” turn-out as long as the students are

younger than 12 years old: “…these beginner students practice daily in small

classes in a painstakingly slow manner, facing the barre, under the careful

tutelage of teachers who are constantly on the lookout for any sign of incorrect

placement”. While I agree with this last statement, it seems to be a contradiction

in light of her earlier statement: How can turn-out which is “forced” also be

“correct”??

Secondly, I am confused by her explanation of how to assess turn-out. How can

you assess the bone structure of an individual while they are lying on their back

with their legs open without also taking into account the muscles, ligaments,

fascia? I think this is a better assessment of the current flexibility of the student,

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not the bone structure or the “natural facility for turn-out in the hip-joint.”

(When I lie in this position, especially when I am tight, my legs start out a bit off

the floor and only reach the floor after several minutes, and sometimes only after

several days of stretching.) Also, even if this is a good way to assess the bone

structure of the hip-joint, it still isn’t a complete assessment of turn-out since

turn-out is the sum total of rotation in the hip, knees and ankles.

I also do not agree that it impossible to increase one’s facility for turn-out past

the age of eleven, if that is in fact what she means to say. True, it would be

impossible to alter the bone structure in the hip joint, so I agree with Warren

there. However, my sources say that, more frequently than not, it is NOT the

bone structure of the individual student which is the issue (see also

physiotherapist Lisa Howell’s opinion). That being the case, it is certainly

conceivable that careful and consistent training can strengthen the muscles

controlling turn-out, which would in turn increase the flexibility of the fascia

(layer of fibrous tissue), and other flexible tissue surrounding the hip, to produce

a greater degree of turn-out than one is born with (From Wikipedia: “Like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascia

http://theballetblog.com/articles/turnout/141-how-to-improve-your-turnout-range-.html




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ligaments, aponeuroses, and tendons, fasciae are dense regular connective

tissues, containing closely packed bundles of collagen fibers oriented in a wavy

pattern parallel to the direction of pull. Fasciae are consequently flexible

structures able to resist great unidirectional tension forces until the

wavy pattern of fibers has been straightened out by the pulling

force. These collagen fibers are produced by the fibroblasts located within the

fascia”).

I now know, after assessing my own turn-out as an adult, that had my turn-out

been trained rather than ignored I would almost certainly have been able to

achieve 180 degrees.

UPDATE 12/22/11:

I can now get to 180 degrees in first position at the barre! <--Read about

how I did it by clicking the link.

http://balletuni.com/2011/11/turn-out-before-after-pics-in-first-position/




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While a young student, I always thought that my turn-out was bad and it was a

source of embarrassment to me, but taking a hard look at it now I know that my

bone structure is not the problem. My problem is that my muscles have not been

developed to sustain such turn-out. I received the majority of my training at a

very respectable school with experienced teachers, so I’m sure I can’t be the only

person with this problem!

That is why the best way to achieve this while avoiding injury is important for me

to understand, both as an adult getting back into dancing and as a new teacher.

There is still so much I have to learn about this complicated and controversial

topic, so I am continuing to look for answers and turning to the turn-out

“experts,” the Russian pedagogues.

Related articles you may want to check out...

Question: Why Should You Hold The Leg Strictly To The Side A La Seconde?

Are Russian Dancers Better?

Is 180 Degree Turn-Out Really Necessary?


http://balletuni.com/2011/03/why-are-russian-dancers-better-vaganova-in-america-part-i/

http://balletuni.com/2011/04/question-why-should-you-hold-the-leg-strictly-to-the-side-a-la-seconde/




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← Is 180 Degree Turn-Out Really Necessary? And that is what you should NOT do… →

The Effect Of Neural Mobility On Your Flexibility

How To Find And Choose A Vaganova Teacher In The U.S.

How to Tilt the Pelvis for Correct Placement of the Spine

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37 thoughts on “Dealing With Less Than Perfect Turn-Out”

Maddie on February 9, 2013 at 11:43 pm said:

I am glad to hear the different opinions about turnout. At my studio, we

have been trained to get as much turnout as we can access, but correctly, to

avoid injury. The problem at my studio is, some of the kids are lazy and do not

use the correct methods to achieve 180 or close to 180 turnout, and hurt

themselves by doing so. I really enjoy this blog, and it is helpful to read people’s

views on ballet.

Reply ↓

Mary on February 13, 2013 at 10:56 am said:

Hello Maddie,

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Thank you for your comment, and I am so glad you enjoy the blog! I agree,

you can definitely hurt yourself by not turning out correctly. The good news

is, when you sum up the rotation in the hip, knee and ankle joints, most

people do have at least 180 degrees. The key is in pulling up, which will

prevent injury, and in doing the correct exercises to strengthen your turn-

out.

Thanks again!

Mary

Reply ↓

ANGELICA on May 3, 2012 at 8:45 am said:

Indeed, it is, Mary ! :( :(

Ana, thanks again for your useful explanations.

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Well, if my teacher attempted the Vaganova School in SP, she did it as a foreign

student and for a year : she is Cuban. So fortunately no horror story here. If I

can’t denie her training in the Vaganova Academy must have been tough, and

for it she does deserve respect, I can’t equally denie that she is naturally bad-

tempered and “diva”-like. I know her life has not been an easy one (studying in

DSP, leaving Cuba to dance in Europe, losing her husband and her parents) but

the way she acts as a teacher is influanced by her personality rather than by her

life experience : it is like she is “Doctor Jekyll” and Mister “Hyde” because there

is the woman she is in everyday life and then there is the woman she is in Ballet,

which are two different persons !!

Anyway, nothing and no one is gonna make her change so we have to deal with

her “diva”-like personality and I swear that is not sunshine every day !! :-D

Easier said than done when you have to bear the humiliating nasty things she

tells you in front of a whole 30-persons class though !! :-O :-/ :-O :-/ I fell like

my nerves are thin fraying ropes that are gonna snap one day …. :-/ :-/

Reply ↓





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Ana on April 27, 2012 at 2:07 am said:

It sounds like you got the torso! Like I said, it took my friend two years of

very hard work to “conquer” her extension, so don’t get discouraged yet. And I

certainly understand about bad tempered Russians. I had enough of them in

my life too! Really, read Maya Plisetskaya’s autobiography – the abuse they

suffered under the Soviet political regime was so dehumanizing that you would

be lucky if your teacher still has a soul left. Maya’s father was murdered for no

good reason, her mother and 7 month old baby brother were sent to the Gulag

(Siberian concentration camp) shortly thereafter, and they made a point to

humiliate her “disgraced” family ties at every possible juncture for the next

forty years. And the worst part is, the Soviets were only doing the same thing

their Tsarist predecessors had done – torment and abuse the little people.

I am not saying it excuses your teacher’s bad behavior, but sometimes it helps

to know why they are the way they are so that you don’t take it so personally. I




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studied Russian history and society in college and, as much as I love them, they

are a nation of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder survivors.

Ironically, that is part of the beauty of their ballet. Somehow, ballet has become

their escape into a world of beauty and perfection, their national expression of

freedom from within oppression. That – exactly that – is what Maya Plisetskaya

did for her country. But she suffered a lot for it, and, just between you and me,

she wasn’t all that nice either.

Reply ↓

Mary on April 30, 2012 at 12:58 pm said:

Ana- Wow, that is some pretty horrible history!

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ANGELICA on April 25, 2012 at 8:04 am said:

ANSWER TO ANA’S COMMENT FROM APRIL 13 :

Hi Ana !

Well, if you can stick your foot in your mouth, then ear-grazing extensions

aren’t that far ! ;-)

Jeu de mots ! LOL !

I am a Foreign Languages teacher so I know what it means to break knowledge

down for students to learn it.

Now, thanks to your further explanations, I can picture what the “Sizova” torso

mean : with abs muscles tightly knitted together and the whole body pulled-up

(as the basic ballet posture requires), you start a cambr� back BUT stop at the

very beginning of it, just when you are over the line of back of your spine.

Am I right ?

I did it and … boy does it feel like I had a 2-ton H-up breast expanding in front

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of me !! And boy does it feel like m breast and my stomach/lower irbs were

suddendly 1 kilometer away from each other !!

AWKWARD, OMG !! :-D

What about extension, I can tell you that I am a true stakhanovite : I can spend

hours and hours training and insisting, struggling to succeed a movement,

getting furious about myself .

Trust me : I do know what stretching in order to get those extensions mean ! I

know the pain I got through …

And during the lessons, I work so hard that I sweat like hell by the end of the

first tendu exercises at the barre.

But I haven’t still experienced the moment in which things suddendly fell into

place (because I’m sure it’s about it) concerning high extensions to the front

and to the side …. :-/

You used the expression “conquer your body” in your post : I really like it !

It is indeed an excellent expression, corresponding perfectly to the truth




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because Ballet IS conquering one’s body : it is about to learn the right

neuromuscular patterns, which in turn means to learn to know one’s body.

As for my teacher, thank you for your encouragements.

Yes, she does have it in her bones BUT just looking at someone who is not able

to explain you “how to” is not enough to learn. Moreover, I pay for my lesson to

get corrections, not to see her showing the movements : that doesn’t help me,

especially as she is really bad-tempered (I remember her shaking me and

beating me while I did not succeed in doing something during my private

lesson) ….

Reply ↓

Ana on April 16, 2012 at 2:20 pm said:

Hi Mary,

You have dispelled my doubts regarding Mme. Willis-Aarnio… thank you for





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being so gracious about it!!

It’s possible that Mme. Sizova meant it as an over-compensation. I hadn�t

thought of that before. But it makes sense. In her autobiography, Natalie

Makarova speaks about two distinct ballet postures � one romantic (i.e.

Giselle) and one classical (Swan Lake): �In order to assimilate (the Romantic)

style, one has to have a big, soaring jump, a free-floating torso, as if it were

independent from the legs, an indefinable plasticity of the arms � les bras

inachev�s � ethereally sketched in the air, as if testing its density.� The

Classical torso, on the other hand, �is differently poised in the classical tutu: it

stands in the working leg very firmly, and the sense of center is absolute.� (p.

122, italics my own. It is a VERY good book, btw, extensively documenting Kirov

ballet pedagogy as Vaganova would have remembered it.)

On the other hand, I believe that Mme. Sizova meant it to be my exact posture,

at least during the full barre exercise. Even if she didn�t expect me to always

dance in this extreme posture, I think she valued the ability of a dancer to have




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it �in the repertoire�, so to speak � able to pull it into certain movements

and positions without reproducing the strenuous effort it requires in the

beginning.

Moreover, despite how extreme it FELT, it didn�t actually look that extreme

in the mirror. That was one of the things that surprised me about it. I was

expecting to see in my reflection a girl in cambr� back, about to fall over

backwards (what I felt) but what I saw was�.beautiful. It was the closest I have

ever looked to a Russian ballerina;-)

I actually believe it is the posture the Vaganova academy regularly teaches. You

can see it on several of the girls in the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A46d36ccHa4 Just keep in mind that it

doesn�t look as extreme as it feels�.but, at the same time, it looks way

different than what qualifies as proper posture for normal people:

http://s3.hubimg.com/u/2778970_f260.jpg Way straighter, and way farther

back.

http://s3.hubimg.com/u/2778970_f260.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A46d36ccHa4




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I actually think the point of this posture is to develop turnout. When a person is

in �correct� posture, according to a chiropractor � they are actually leaning

forward, to balance over turned-in feet. But when the feet are perfectly turned

out, and the dancer balances over a tiny line of floor � her posture must react

accordingly. I think pulling up and back � this pseudo cambr� back posture

� helps to find that turned-out balance with the greatest stability.

If you remember, I mentioned earlier that this position made my turn-out snap

open. I still remember the way it felt, the opening pull on my hip joint as I grand

pli�d. All of the sudden, I was turning out more than I had ever turned out

before � just to keep the balance.

I actually think this position is at once both a key to developing turnout and

balance. It is really hard, but it doesn’t look hard. �t looks like… ballet!

Reply ↓





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Mary on April 20, 2012 at 9:36 am said:

Hi Ana,

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. That extremely pulled up posture is what

is needed in order to balance with turned-out feet, and this is why turn-out

(meaning 180 degrees!) is so important. If you are not turned out in your legs,

then you will never find your correct center of gravity, and your body will

have to assume a more pedestrian posture. Very interesting how you

experienced that it works the other way as well: when you pulled up more

through your torso, you found it easier to turn out your legs. That completely

makes sense, and this is why the posture at the barre is so crucial to get right

in the very beginning. Turn-out happens when everything is pulled up (so

much so, that it feels like your muscles are screaming, or like you are in a very

awkward position until you get used to it).

I agree also that your Mme. Sizova was probably trying to correct your

posture, rather than teaching you a particular style (such as the Romantic





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style). You learn the foundation first in your lessons, and I believe the various

styles probably come from adapting to different choreography and following

the direction of the choreographer. I don’t know much yet about teaching

different styles though. I’ll have to get Makarova’s autobiography; it sounds

interesting!

Mary

Reply ↓


Hi Angelica, Hi Mary!

You guys are both right � I have a tendency to stick my foot in my mouth from

time to time! I know that what makes a teacher is more than being a good

dancer. As a teacher myself (history), I understand the importance of being able

to break knowledge down for students so that they can master it.





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Which is why I feel bad that I haven�t yet been able to articulate this posture

of turning out the torso for you. You said it looks like a cambr� back. Are you

comfortable with your cambr� backs? It doesn�t hurt or pinch anywhere?

You are pulling back and down with the shoulders, knitting together the

abdomen core muscles until they are very tight? Because this posture is

essentially just that – a small cambr� back. If you cambr� back � pulling

upwards, as you should always do for a cambr� back � but stop just as your

balance is centered directly over the back of your spine � you should feel like

you are leaning � that is the posture Mme. Sizova wanted me to do grand

pli�s in. And tendus…etc. For her, it was the neutral position of all classical

ballet. To me, the way it draws open the chest and plants the weight of the body

directly over the hips, it feels like my torso is turned out.

As for extension, I think it comes from an obsessed amount of desire and self-

discipline � constantly working it, throughout the day, throughout the week,

never slacking. I remember one of my classmates was that sort of worker �always sweating � and I wished I had had the same amount of dedication. Her




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extension came to her slowly but steadily over the course of a year or two � all

the way up to her ears.

Mary, I have no idea what sort of career Mme. Willis-Aarnio had, nor what she

has done since then. I shouldn�t have made assumptions. I am tempted to

buy her book but I am worried about shipping costs to Europe� it does sound

like she has some amazing thing to say about technique. However, and you can

correct me if I am wrong, as far as I can tell, she has produced no professional

dancers. Usually that would be the first thing a ballet teacher would list in their

credentials � their successes as a ballet teacher. All I am saying is that, if she

hasn�t produced a professional yet, despite her extraordinary knowledge,

despite whatever she is able to teach, she probably can�t do it in the future

either. Something is missing. I have no idea what her method is missing, except

results. My criticism doesn’t change the fact that she probably has

extraordinary insights into ballet technique.

My own teacher, Miss Balestracci, was also a single teacher with her own studio




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in a small town in Virginia. But she has produced several professional dancers,

including a corps member of ABT, a Rockette, a few dancers for smaller

companies, and a multiple prize winner at the American Grand Prix, including a

special award for artistry at the big one in NYC. This last dancer was the one I

just talked about � the one who worked so hard on her extension. It wasn�t

vanity � she wasn�t vain, even though her legs got up to her ears. I think she

really just had that calling. She had to conquer her body � make it do what she

wanted � because she had something very important to say with it.

Dancing is certainly more than arms and legs. It is the call of a body to the

expression of its very soul. I think Mme. Balestracci understood that better

than she understood technique, although her technical knowledge was

passable. She used to say that her primary teaching goal was to teach us to love

dance. Once we loved dance absolutely, then she would work with us to perfect

it.

I am sorry about your teacher, Angelica, but if she has it in her bones, at least




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you can learn from her by watching. I learned a lot that way. Russian teachers

can be really abusive (Mme. Sizova used to curse at us in Russian, when she

wasn�t telling us how crappy we were in English). Look through their history

� they probably all have severe Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder! Makarova’s

and Plisetskaya’s autobiographies might help you understand some of the

horrible abuses Russian dancers endured – those things that made many of

them cruel and bitter. Sometimes, if you are patient with them, and try to take

what you can, there are these moments of softness and insight that can make it

worthwhile. Sometimes. Good luck!

Anyway, the book I am writing � it�s a novel. I would be crap with any sort of

technical writing;-)

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Ana,

Perhaps your teacher was using the technique of “over-compensation” in

order to correct your posture? I learned that teachers sometimes tell you to

go beyond the point where they want you to go, knowing that once you start

dancing you will naturally do slightly less, and then you will be in the perfect

position. For example, the position of the arms in arabesque: students are

taught to place the hand directly in front of the sternum because the arm will

naturally drift out slightly and then it will be correct. So my theory is that

your teacher was telling you to stretch your spine upwards almost to the

point of the top of a cambre back, so that when you start dancing you will be

pulled up enough (it would be impossible to maintain that leaning back

position while dancing, but if you are used to striving for it then you will be

pulled up just as much as you can be). Does that make sense?

Peggy Willis-Aarnio’s biography is available online at her website here. It

describes parts of her career as a dancer, which is quite sufficient to see that

http://www.willisballet.com/Peggy%20Willis-Aarnio%20Biography.htm




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she has performed extensively as a soloist (2800 performances at one

summer theater alone), although it even leaves other parts of her career out.

Going back to that topic, I don’t think it is really relevant to go into extreme

detail about your dancing career when you are talking about your teaching

career, for those reasons already mentioned. I also personally don’t think

that you have to say whether you produced professional dancers, since the

professional status isn’t precisely indicative of whether the training was good

or not (many professional dancers did not have good training, and probably

the vast majority of students don’t go on to become professionals anyway,

even when they had the talent and the training to do so). That being said, Dr.

Willis-Aarnio actually HAS produced quite a few professional dancers, the

first one of which was rather remarkable in that he was trained by her

exclusively, didn’t start ballet until he was 21, and ended up having a

successful career with a respectable company.

In addition, Dr. Willis-Aarnio’s pedagogical students have gone on to teach

dancers who have become successful professionals and prize winners at prix




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competitions. She also helped her sister ballet company in St. Petersburg

(directed by Marina Medvetskaya) with their professional lessons, making a

noticeable difference in their strength and stamina when performing difficult

works. So, although it does help a bit that I have actually seen her students

with my own eyes, I think that all of this is evidence enough to conclude that

Dr. Willis-Aarnio has not only had great success with her own students, but

her pedagogical training courses have had that ripple effect in the community

as well. What I am trying to do, of course, is to help increase that ripple effect

by spreading the word about the method because, truly, these are not merely

“insights” but real education stemming from actual research, experience and

proven success, spanning generations.

Have I dispelled your doubts yet? :-) In any case, thank you for the continued

dialogue, and I hope that I can help a bit where you are interested to learn

more. I do highly recommend her books (which I should have available in the

shop soon… I just need to find time to put them up). Don’t let the

international shipping cost worry you– it is far less than the actual cost for




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the books.

Mary

Reply ↓

Angelica on April 8, 2012 at 7:08 am said:

Bonjour Ana !

Merci de ta r�ponse.

Si tu pr�f�res le Fran�ais, pas de probl�me pour moi. ;o)

What kind of novel are you writing ?

Is is meant to somehow be a “techninal” book, with pieces of advice to help

dancers, or is it rather an imaginary story taking place in the world of Ballet ?

Anyway, you should pay attention to those kind of regrettable details : if it is

sure that we can not know everything about everybody, it is any author’s duty

http://nowebsite.com/





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to inform oneself because you wouldn’t want to publish wrong informations in

your book and consequently a possible libel action against you to be brought. :-/

My two cents ! :)

I watched Alla Sizova’s video : great Ballerina !

If she was as good as a teacher than as a Ballerina, you are lucky to have taken

lessons with her.

Because what counts, as Mary said very rightly, is not the capacity to do things

but well and truly the (too rare) ability to explain how to to these things.

Just as speaking French is simply not enough to pretend to be able to teach it,

being able to do 32 fouett�s and having an ear-grazing extension are NOT

what makes you a good teacher. What makes you a good teacher is HOW to

explain to your students to do these 32 fouett�s and to reach for an ear-

grazing extension : ability is not to be mistaken for PEDAGOGY, the latter being

the key of a good teaching method.

My father, who is a very qualified mechanic and a pilot, has not been able to




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teach me how to drive a car : he knows everything about mechanic and driving

techniques as much as he is not able to communicate his know-how (no, yelling

and swearing is NOT a teaching method !! LOL !! ).

It is exactly the same in the case of my principal Ballet teacher : she attended

the Vaganova Academy of St-Petersburg for one year as a foreign student,

became an Etoile, toured around the world, etc … So, we are speaking about

eye-scratching arches, sky-grazing extensions and plenty of talent and

recognition.

Well she may be talented to the highest point, have spectacular feet and having

attended the Vaganova Academy but she still remains incapable to teach

properly somebody. If her lessons are really well done, they lack the necessary

pedagogy : she may be a stellar choice to train already professional dancers but

not to teach a whole Ballet syllabus.

I hope that these the three examples I gave here above help you to understand

that what countsas a teacher is not being able to do something but to be able to

explain HOW TO do it.




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I have had a teacher who is a wonderful pirouette-teacher while as a dancer she

couldn’t herself do two pirouettes : as she didn’t know how to do pirouettes,

she analyzed the situation, understood the problems and that is precisely the

reason why she is now able to properly teach students how to turn. I still miss

her because she is one the very best teachers I have had and, man, how much

progresses did make in a few lessons with her !!! :-)

Agrippina Vaganova herself hadn’t had (Mary, please correct me if I’m wrong :-)

) a stellar dancer career and it made absolutely no difference when it comes to

the teaching method she founded : not having had a stellar career did not make

her teaching bad, quite the reverse.

It is essential for you to understand that what counts is to know HOW to have

someone do something, otherwise you are gonna be tricked by great dancers

that pretend to teach you something while they are not able to communicate

you their technique (the “HOW to”). Most of the time, you will notice that they

haven’t got technique themselves : how is somebody likely to pretend to teach

others something he/she doesn’t have ?!




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That is an equally important point : a good teacher is someone who has been

properly taught. Always inform yourself about a possible teacher : you have to

know which is his/her background.

Coming to high extensions and high arches, if I agree with you about the fact

that they are not trifling details, please keep in mind that good technique

doesn’t mean sky-high extensions and bumped arches : Ballet is not aerobics.

Just having a high extension and a beautiful arch doesn’t make you a dancer :

what makes you a daner is technique AND artistry. Because Ballet is much

more than a simple sport and much more than a simple art. You would better

reach for fine-tuned technique than for eye illusions : an ear-grazing extension

on a misaligned body is everything but useful, just as much as an embossed

high arch is never likely to help someone who is not able to dane.

But, for struggling with my extensions to the side and to the front (I’m even

ashamed when it comes to certain exercises (like d�velopp�s) because I feel

ridiculous) and combing Internet and various books in order to get a piece of

answer, I DO know what you mean and what it feels like …. I would like as much




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as you do to find someone or something that will help me to get those damned

shoulder-level extensions …. growling growling !! LOL !!

Sorry but, despite what you explained here above, I can’t picture the “turned-

oout torso” fact ….

What I see in Lopatkina Odette’s beautiful picture is a cambr� to the back in

an on-the-floor-position. But I guess remaining in a cambr� back position is

not what you mean by “turning out” the torso.

Try to explain it in French : je comprendrai peut-�tre mieux ! ;o)

I also don’t get the idea of the “backwards but upwards” pull.

Don’t worry : I know how much it is difficult to try to describe things like these

with words. ust read my previous message and you will understand. ;o)

Bis bald !

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Mary on April 9, 2012 at 9:05 am said:

That’s right, Vaganova had a good but not stellar career, retiring only

one year after being promoted to prima. Vera Kostrovitskaya, an even better

example, had a lung condition which prevented her from performing much at

all. From Wikipedia, “Though [Vaganova] did have a respectable career as a

dancer, her leadership in teaching classical dance was what gave her one of

the most respected places in the history of ballet. Her own early struggle

with deciphering ballet technique had taught her much. She taught

students who would go on to become legends of the dance.”

Perhaps it is precisely those struggles as a dancer–and the subsequent desire

to provide better instruction–which brings out the best in teachers.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrippina_Vaganova





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Angelica,

Haha. Ich bin Amerikanerin in Deutschland � mit kleine Kinder auch � da

habe ich nur einen Grundniveau Deutsch gemeistert. Eigentlich, je pr�f�re le

fran�ais. Je l’ai �tudi� � l’universit� et je suis pass� un semester �Lyon.

If it�s okay with you, I am about to write another novel. Actually, I AM writing

a novel about ballet � I have been for the better part of a year now, mostly

researching and rehashing what I learned way back when I danced on a semi-

professional level back in high school.

This lesson � about the Russian torso � I learned from Alla Sizova (

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2011/oct/14/kirov-alla-sizova-nureyev-

ballet) back in the summer of 2000 when she was teaching at the Kirov

Academy in Washington DC. We were doing plies, and she wanted to correct my

posture. She began lifting my chin up, but after I was out of stretching room,

she wanted me to continue. The only way I could continue was back, so she had

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2011/oct/14/kirov-alla-sizova-nureyev-ballet




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me pull up so hard that I leaned backwards. Does that make sense? It wasn�t

back. It was up. But because it was so far up, it went backwards. She kept telling

me to pull higher and higher � stretching upwards everything, my neck, my

spine, my hips, my legs, etc. And as I moved farther and farther upwards and

backwards, she kept wanting more. She didn�t want the backward curve to

come from my lumbar curve, which maintained its normal axis toward my

sternum. Instead, she wanted the thoracic curve of my spine inverted to curve

outwards – concave rather than its normal convex position. My sternum

became part of my core – it was over the center of my hips � over the center of

my gravity. She basically pushed me to the point that I would have fallen

backwards if I lost my balance.

That is when it happened. When we are standing normally, our center of gravity

is quite solid � a flag pole core, nice and thick and sturdy. But in this new

position, it was like my center of balance got so stretched backwards that it

became a thin thread. I couldn�t wobble or I would fall. As I pli�d, especially

into the grand plie � she kept pushing me backwards so that my knees




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struggled to turnout � simply to maintain my balance under my backward-

leaning head.

This position should make several things happen: 1. Turnout � if your legs

don�t turnout, you have a massive uncomfortable torque on the hips and

spine as your body struggles to move in two directions at once. Turnout

becomes the natural result of keeping your legs and hips within your center of

gravity. 2) Sore abdominal core muscles. To maintain this position your

stomach necessarily needs to knit itself together very tightly, and the muscles it

will prefer will be the ones closest to the tension � the deepest ones of your

core. 3) Difficulty breathing � the torso will be constricted by the unnatural

bending of the lung cavity. 4) Profuse sweat. It is a really hard position to

maintain. If you aren�t shaking and sweating after three minutes, you aren�t

pulling up (back) hard enough. Of course, as one practices, it becomes easier.

Here is a picture of Uliana Lopatkina using this posture as Odette:

http://30.media.tumblr.com/ciJaweS61lrux3qyhHny39zLo1_500.jpg I called it

http://30.media.tumblr.com/ciJaweS61lrux3qyhHny39zLo1_500.jpg




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�turning out of the torso� because that is what it looks and feels like to me.

Mary is right � it is really hard to explain this stuff because you can�t isolate

one aspect of ballet technique without going back to the whole thing. It�s like

trying to explain to someone � in words alone – how to ride a bike, or the

function of one of the gears in a watch.

Ballet is especially hard to nail down intellectually. Some have attempted to

create a notation system to delineate where a choreographer would like the

arms and legs to go, and videos can transmit a bit more of the sense of

movement, but all professional dancers would tell you the most important

aspect of learning new choreography is the presence of a stager � the

choreographer herself, a dancer from the original production, or the closest

thing to. Only through a stager can a dancer learn the intention behind the

movement and the core of what the dance is about. Which is why when Rudolf

Nureyev staged La Bayed�re for Paris Opera, he was passing on a legacy that

had been handed down from Petipa himself, through the generations of the




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Mariinsky Theater.

The same thing is true of ballet technique. The teacher must be able to �ride

the bicycle� in order to teach you how to do it � she must know exactly what

it feels like, exactly what its purpose is, and, most importantly, at some point in

her past, she must have mastered it herself. In short, your teacher must have

ballet in her bones if you want a chance to get ballet in your bones. Which is

why, even though I have spent the better part of a year thinking about it and

trying to articulate it, my best writing can only nail down a few aspects of Proper

Ballet Technique.

Which is also why (I am sorry, Mary!) I have some doubts about Peggy Willis-

Aarnio�s training method. She certainly has done an amazing job at analyzing

and explaining key aspects of Proper Ballet Technique, especially turnout, but

she herself has never mastered ballet (neither has Eric Conrad, even though he

would sell you his CD for $50), and, unless they have mastered ballet – all of it,

not just little parts of it – they cannot teach it. Even more compelling is her




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(and Eric�s) lack of evidence. Neither have produced their own crop of

professionally competitive dancers (although Eric likes to take credit for them),

and if they can�t produce dancers, then that is a sign their methodology is

missing some fundamental links.

If you want to be professional, you have to find yourself a good teacher �someone who has ballet in their bones and is skilled at sharing it. Hopefully,

they would have professional experience, although it isn�t always necessary.

One of the best teachers of my past � Adrienne Dellas Thornton � got a

career-ending injury at age 17, before she had been able to test out her promise.

She was the one who trained the Universal Ballet of Seoul, South Korea into

existence.

The best is a ballet training facility that includes several talented teachers and

which feeds into a semi-professional or professional company. I would never

teach ballet alone � I couldn�t. I never reached a professional level, and even

though my grasp on certain aspects of Proper Ballet Technique is quite good, I




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was crap at other stuff. (I sucked at turns, for instance;-) How can I give

students something I don�t have?

Peggy Willis-Aarnio does a great job on teaching turnout, but, from what I can

see, she lacks emphasis on two essential vanities: 1) leg to ear extensions, and

2) banana feet. While it�s true that neither make a dancer � the quality of an

artist’s soul is unrelated �if you don�t have these qualities, you will not be

competitive in today�s market. You would be like a soprano who couldn�t hit

her high note.

I still disagree with Mary and say, �Get a foot stretcher if you need one.� You

can buy one: http://www.footstretch.com/ or just make one by securing a width

of fabric to a plank. Use it carefully � read up about the dangers of stretching

and make sure you stretch after class, not before � but you don�t want your

feet to hold you back from your dreams. If you have a bad arch, and are over age

13 or so, you won�t be able to make it great, but you can at least make the

most of what you have. Yulia Makhalina is a great example of a prima today

http://www.footstretch.com/




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whose feet are bad, but made the most of:

http://www.criticaldance.com/interviews/2003/YuliaMakhalina20030510.html

Willis-Aarnio�s focus on turnout may be incomplete, but it is absolutely

invaluable. Turnout is the most difficult aspect of ballet to acquire and the most

important. So many western dancers � even professionals � don�t have it

because they were never properly taught. Their hips are all knotted and

muscular, whereas Russian ballet hips are as smooth as ribbons flowing down a

maypole � into perfectly turned out thighs.

As research for my book, I have been rehoning my turnout to see if it was

possible to improve it, even as old as I am, and, of course, it is. It�s just really

hard. The Russians focus on turnout exclusively for the first year � facing the

barre, very (very) simple exercises all intent on developing it. More than any

one position or exercise (many of which we already discussed in this thread), I

found the most important ingredient is obsessive amounts of struggling for it.

In all positions. Maybe that is why the good old Russian �drill sergeant�teaching method � screaming at you and name-calling until they are blue in

http://www.criticaldance.com/interviews/2003/YuliaMakhalina20030510.html




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the face � is so effective: it helps us strain further, beyond the point when we

would otherwise pat ourselves on the back and say, �good job!�Maya Plisetskaya declares in her autobiography � very Russian-like � that

those who are not destined to be dancers shouldn�t try. And I think its true

� we might have banana feet, legs glued to our ears, and perfect turnout, but if

we don�t have that special calling, we will never make it beyond soloist.

Historically, all the greatest dancers have been extraordinary actresses (Anna

Pavlova, Gelsey Kirkland), extraordinarily musical (Margot Fonteyn, Maya

Plisetskaya), extraordinarily kinetic (Barishnikov, Nijinski), or some

combination of these artistic qualities. There is a really interesting movie

coming out in the States, First Position, which offers a glimpse into what all this

means � how, out of all the girls who want to dance professionally, most of

them are weeded out, and only a few remain. Here is a trailer � it looks

absolutely fascinating! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qjlWdHitNo)

Good luck!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qjlWdHitNo




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Reply ↓


Before we pass judgment on anyone, I think it is important to take into

consideration the body of work that this person has produced, particularly

when it is as prolific as Peggy Willis-Aarnio’s.

(Forgive me, Ana, if you have already examined some or all of her academic

work and/or educational products. In your last comment, you mentioned her

“emphasis on turn-out” and her “lack of emphasis” on extension and feet, but

I’m not sure whether you were referring to anything specific that she said in

her books or videos, or if you just made that assumption based on something

I said on this site.)

Another very important point I’d like to make is this: All of the work Peggy

Willis-Aarnio has produced pertains to the method founded by Vaganova,

and Dr. Willis-Aarnio makes NO claim to having any part whatsoever in the






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creation of said method. So to say that this method is “Peggy Willis-Aarnio’s”

is a huge misunderstanding of what she actually teaches.

Now, to address the doubts that were brought up, in brief:

To say that Peggy Willis-Aarnio did not master ballet herself as a dancer is

simply not true. She did, in fact, have a respectable career as a classical

dancer until she sustained a serious back injury which ended her career. That

being said, the fact alone of being a dancer does not make one a good teacher,

even if you were as famous as Mikhail Baryshnikov! (See this video where

Baryshnikov teaches a master class in China in 1979; while he does show off

his incredible talent as a dancer, it is apparent to me that he does not actually

have pedagogical training: http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=9GdP7zdj1NA)

After her back injury, Peggy Willis-Aarnio pursued teaching as the head of the

dance program at Texas Tech University, during which time she became the

student of John Barker, the principal pedagogical student of Vera

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GdP7zdj1NA




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Kostrovitskaya herself. Kostrovitskaya, of course, was Agrippina Vaganova’s

assistant, and the one who completed Vaganova’s research (when she died of

a heart attack in 1951) upon the publication of her book, School of Classical

Dance. (This book is the syllabus for the method Vaganova founded, and it

became the textbook of the Vaganova Academy in St. Petersburg.) I bring all

of this up to illustrate how Dr. Willis-Aarnio’s pedagogical lineage to

Vaganova is pure and very direct.

In addition, Dr. Willis-Aarnio was also certified by Valentina Roumiantseva at

the Vaganova Academy in St. Petersburg as a “teacher of teachers” (the

highest qualification for a teacher in Russia). While a certification alone is

STILL not enough to demonstrate mastery as a teacher, it says a lot that her

teaching has been endorsed by such notables as Galina Mezentseva (principal

dancer of the Kirov for 20 years), Vera Krasovskaya (“dean of Russian ballet

historians and a ballet writer who was highly respected in the West” -NY

Times) and many others who are also highly respected in the world of ballet

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/08/21/arts/vera-krasovskaya-83-historian-and-critic-of-the-russian-ballet.html




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and in Russia.

The real proof, as she states herself, is “in the pudding.” To see this proof,

just look at her Classical Ballet Lesson DVDs and you will notice two of Peggy

Willis-Aarnio’s students dancing on either side of Galina Mezentseva. I think

just the mere fact that Mezentseva did not object to having these students

dance next to her says it all.

I would also just like to mention that having high extensions and beautiful

feet do make you competitive in today’s world, but those qualities alone are

not the mark of a well-trained dancer. For example, since taking the first

teacher’s course, I am now able to see where the Russian dancers on Eric

Conrad’s DVD (with high extensions and beautiful feet) are making mistakes.

On the flip side, I have also seen videos of students trained exclusively by Dr.

Willis-Aarnio (which she showed us during the course), who had very little

natural ability in terms of body type, but still managed to display beautiful

technique, strength and skill as the result of their superior training.




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My point is, while Peggy Willis-Aarnio’s school may not have the luxury that

other schools have of having a company attached (which naturally attracts

more of the gifted dancers), the technique and discipline of her students–

gifted or not so gifted–is undeniable and beautiful. In my opinion, these

acquired qualities, and not displays of unrefined natural beauty, are the true

markings of a masterful teacher.

Reply ↓

Angelica on April 2, 2012 at 9:45 am said:

To Ana :

Guten Abend Ana !

Ich habe gelesen, daB du aus Deutschland bist.

Ich bin Italienisch aber wohne in Belgien, im Franzoesisch sprechenden Gebiet.

http://ihavenowebsite/





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Ich liebe die Deustsche Sprache : ich studierte Deutsch als ich in der Schule der

Sekundarstufe ware und gang in die Abendschule um diese Sprache weiter zu

studieren (ich hoerte zu es gibt ein Paar Jahre weil ich keine Zeit mehr wegens

Ballett habe).

Ich nutze die Gelegenheit deiner Teilnahme in Marys Website, um einige

Woerter auf Deutsch zuzufluestern ! ;-)

I am gonna carry on in English to be sure that everybody understand what I am

saying ! ;-)

Ana, I have a question for you :

In one of your messages, you talked about the “turned-out” torso”.

But WHAT is a “turned-out” torso ?

What do you mean ?

In this message, you also said that you think that “turned-out” torso is the

secret behind Russian port de bras : why ? Could you please explain it ?




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Thank you !

Danke schoen !

:-)

Reply ↓

Angelica (Caro) on April 2, 2012 at 9:17 am said:

Dear Mary,

It’s a long time since I don’t write to you but you are not gonna be deceived as I

am going to let here a very long novel ! LOL !

Believe it or not but I printed all the present discussion in order to analyze it

and to get informations.

I now understand WHY relev� lent at 90 degrees and grand battement tendu

http://Ihavenowebsite/





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jet� (which is an extension of the relev� exercise, with the psoas and hip

muscles working more as the leg is taken higher) are so important to develop

extension : they indeed teach you how the use the hamstrings in order to

elevate the leg and to rely on your core in order to maintain the leg at that

height (and not, as most people wrongly do, to grip the quadriceps).

You can not imagine HOW MUCH I thank you for explaining me what Vaganova

so marvellously stated she really did a true gem of work !!! It is nearly

incredible, thinking she wrote it in the early-mid of the 20th century, to see how

much anatomical knowledge she had and how she so successfully managed to

use it in order for it to be understood by most people.

I could not trust an other kind of method anymore : Vaganova rcoks, my god !

I even can not understand why it has been criticized so much, as much as I just

can’t understand why most US and European teachers are blaming it and not

using it instead of teaching in a wrong way (it is easy to recognize an US-trained

ballerina : most of the time, not to say nearly always they have quadriceps

developped like soccer players, which is really ugly :-/ ).




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Period. :-)

Now, my dear Californian blonde :-) , I have some (“some” is an euphemism !

LOL ! ) questions for you :

1) About arch and instep :

You said that exercises meant to develop the arch of the foot at the same time

stenghten it AND stretch it and talked about exercises on demi-pointe.

I was about to ask you if all exercises done on demi-pointe are enought to work

on the arch of if there were more specific exercises to do on demi-pointe BUT

you also told that developing the arch and the instep (which are

complementary) is a complicated process that is more than doing exercises on

demi-pointe (although it remains an imoortant part of it) : what does it take

then to develop the arch and the instep in a correct way ? What is this

complicated process you have mentioned ?

2) About the lower back :




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You gave (again ;-) ) a TRULY precious, gem)like information telling about the

tightening and the “upwards pull” of the lower back !

THANK YOU !

You said that this part of the lower back is in the area of the 5th (lumbar)

vertebra.

I don’t want to overanalyze but would it be possible to get more precisions

please ?

Since I read about it, I have been searching so much, trying so hard to find

which are the muscles meant to be engaged but, as this part of the back is like a

big crossroad of all the back muscles where the abdominals ones also meet, I

couldn’t find the answer to my question.

Could you please put me in the picture ? Are there precise muscles that need to

be engaged ?

I wanna be sure to understand to understand this statement in a correct way in

order for it to be effective and harmful : that is the reason why I am asking for




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more precise details.

3) About the pull-up :

In one of your answer to Ana, you offered to explain this mechanism more in

detail if we were interested.

Well, guess what, I am ! LOL ! :-)

Would you always agree to tell us please ?

According to my humble opinion (which is gonna remain humble as long as I

will not have taken a Vaganova teaching method course with an authority of the

Vaganova method such as Peggy Willis-Aarnio, which is something I don’t know

if I will one day have the chance to do), here are some very important points of

the pull-up process :

* Tensed Achilles (thank you so much Peggy Willis-Aarnio ! ;-) )

* Stretched (lenghtened), engaged hamstrings

– Never ever grip the quads to sraighten the knee. When the hamstrings are




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truly engaged, you can really get a true feel of what “use the hamstrings to

straighten the knee” means –

* “Stretched hips”

– Difficult to explain it with words : it is like stretching the muscles that are in

front of the hip not the sit in the hips –

* Engaged core

– Not just wrongly “sucked in” : the lower abs are engaged to keep the eplvis

upright, the transerve abdominal is engaged to tighten the abdomen and

pulling towards the spine in order to keep all the internal stuff (LOL) in place

and to control the center of gravity of the body, and the oblique abs are engaged

to “bring the sides back near the core”. The whole process is actually like a

lacing action, like if you were lacing a corset on you –

* Engaged lower back

– Since you told about this tightening and “upwards” pull of the lower back, I

have understood that it is a crucial part of the pull-up process. I may even say




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that, engaging the lower this way, one can REALLY feel that a very important

part of the pull-up process emanates from this action : it is indeed like this

action irradiates in ALL the body –

* Consequent to engaged lower back, lenghtening of the spine

– I do swear that it is the FIRST time I REALLY feel my spine lenghtening FOR

REAL and in a “natural” way (you don’t have to force anything in order for it to

happen : when the lower back is engaged, it automatically happens) –

* Lowered shoulders

– I don’t wanna “pinch” them together because I guess it is not the right way to

do as it causes tension in the shoulders which are to be relaxed and tension-

free. What I instead do is to pull the two lower pointy edges of the shoulder

blades towards the sacrum in order to keep the shoulders lowered –

* Overall feeling of “lifting out” of the diffent parts of my body (you have to lift

yourself out of your hips in order not to sit in them, to lift the ribcage (I should

say “the upper part of the body, over the waist” because the ribcage does not




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have to protude in any way) out of your pelvis, the whole thing in order to

control the weight of your body to consequently give the limbs the required

“space” and freedom needed for the execution of the moves. Once again, it is

difficult to explain with words).

Please correct me if I am wrong : I am learning a lot with you ! :-)

And I hope sharing all this on your blog will also help the others to find the

answers they need.

4) And a last question about “locked-out” knees :

Did it ever happen to you, hen stadning on both legs with straght, “locked-out”

knees, not to be able to “unlock” the knees anymore ?

It is just like you are not able to bend the knee anymore as much as you have

“locked them out” to be perfectly straight.

What would you recommend in order to overcome this problem ?

A big THANK you for reading all my novel (LOL) and a big THANK YOU for

your future answers to all my questions ! :-)




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Greetings from Belgium ! :-)

Reply ↓


I’ll answer your questions in the same order as you asked… :-)

1) What I mean by the “complicated process” of developing the arch and the

instep of the foot is simply the sum total of your classical ballet training under

a teacher who understands the method. So while demi-pointe is an important

exercise for developing the arch, you can’t just do a gazillion repetitions of

releves on demi-pointe and expect to get the same results. What teachers

learn under this method is that every exercise has a time, place and quantity,

and all the exercises work TOGETHER to develop the body of a classical

dancer. Does that make sense?






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2) About developing the lower back, it is much the same as developing the

arch. It is simply that, when you train in this formulated way, you get better

results than if you trained in a haphazard way, in which each lesson is

dependent on the teacher’s mood, or which exercises he or she felt like giving

that day. To be honest, we only touched slightly on the lower back specifically

in the 1st Course with Dr. Peggy Willis-Aarnio, but I think it is not so

important to know the particular name of the muscle than it is to have the

correct feel, which really comes from having correct placement and executing

each exercise correctly. Bottom line: you really need a teacher to give you

hands-on corrections who knows the correct placement and the correct

execution (AND who knows which exercises to give you!). However, since you

don’t have anyone like that in your area, I do think that continuing to read Dr.

Peggy Willis-Aarnio’s “How to Teach” books as they come out is the next best

thing.

3) Your understanding of pull-up seems correct to me, although I can’t

actually see what you are doing of course. You put it into words very nicely,




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and that isn’t easy to do!

4) Regarding locking-out the knees: Do you have hyper-extended legs? This is

the only case where I would be concerned about NOT locking-out the knees.

(In my case, I don’t, so I have to work extra hard to straighten my legs.) The

goal with hyper-extended legs is to keep them straight and pulled-up, but not

to over-extend them. Since I don’t have personal experience with this, I am

trying it out on my elbows (which are hyper-extended) and I am finding that

they can be straight and taught without being over-extended. Hmmm… I’m

not sure why you aren’t able to “unlock” your knees, but my suggestion to you

is to experiment with it a little and see if you can find that sweet spot. Also,

practice standing in first position with your heels absolutely together and see

if you can maintain that position in your knees when you go to battement

tendu. In other words, your knees shouldn’t extend further when you

battement tendu: they should have the same level of “straightness” as they

did when you were in first.




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Hope that helps!

Mary

Reply ↓

Ana on February 6, 2012 at 2:51 pm said:

Hi Mary,

I am not exactly sure what you mean by grande battement tendu jete (ballet

terminology tends to vary slightly from school to school), but using a grande

battement to stretch sounds pretty dangerous. That would be a ballistic stretch,

exactly what Lisa Howell warns against in bouncing stretches. I pulled a

hamstring doing grande battements when I was 11 and that strand of muscle is

still, twenty years later, the first thing to tighten after I stop training.

Again, I am not sure what you mean, but I wanted to clear that up.





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I really like this site on stretching – silly anim� guy, but quite helpful and

organized: http://www.flashmavi.com/stretching.shtml

Reply ↓

Mary on February 7, 2012 at 2:31 pm said:

Dear Ana,

Grand battement tendu jete is the correct term in the Russian school for

“grand battement.” The reason you say battement TENDU JETE, instead of

just battement, is because there are other steps that are battements. That is,

a “battment” is a whole category of steps which “beat,” or have an opening

and a closing. Battement TENDU is a “stretched beating.” Battement tendu

JETE is a “stretched beating which is thrown” (also known as “degage”). And

of course, a GRAND battement tendu jete is a BIG battement tendu jete (by

the way: in the method of teaching classical ballet, you don’t ever go higher



http://www.flashmavi.com/stretching.shtml




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than 90 degrees for the first year and a half to two years).

You are absolutely right that ballistic stretches (stretches that bounce) are

NOT good for you! The grand battement tendu jete is never a ballistic stretch,

however, (unless it is performed incorrectly!) since the leg is thrown with

CONTROL and while being completely pulled-up (pulling up, or a complete

tightening of the legs, protects you from overstretching your muscles… I can

explain the mechanism behind this in more detail if you are interested, or

perhaps in a future post).

What Lisa Howell means by “ballistic stretches” are those where you are

sitting relaxed on the floor, as in a static stretch, but you are making small

bouncing movements in order to get deeper into the stretch. This is VERY

bad for you because it is not only damaging by making little micro tears in the

muscle tissue, but it also desensitizes you to the feeling of pain, and you will

be more susceptible to a big injury. You do get more flexible this way, but only

because your brain is numbed to the natural (healthy) stretch inhibitory




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response. This is why people have so many surgeries today because they are

doing stuff like this! Ballet never ever EVER includes such erroneous kinds of

stretching!!!

Does that help clear it up?

Mary

P.S. I just looked at that website with the stretches… He includes a

description of ballistic stretching and advocates them 3-4 times per week,

which is exactly what you SHOULDN’T EVER be doing (and what Lisa Howell

is warning against):

http://www.flashmavi.com/stretching_ballistic_stretching.shtml I am also

not sure why he says that you can do static stretches daily, while you should

only do dynamic stretches 4 to 5 times per week. Dynamic stretches are much

much safer for you than static stretches because they involve one muscle

group stretching while the opposing muscle group contracts (this is what

protects you from injury). In static stretches, both muscle groups are relaxed,

http://www.flashmavi.com/stretching_ballistic_stretching.shtml




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and physiologists and kinesiologists say that this kind of stretching weakens

your muscles and works by numbing you to the pain, like I described above.

Where is he getting his information from, I wonder? It certainly does not

agree with the current scientific studies I have read so far, anyhow.

Reply ↓

Ana on February 2, 2012 at 7:06 am said:

Hi Mary,

I live in Germany, actually, which is why I post at funky times. There is a

wonderful ballet culture here that surprised me – I always thought that the best

ballet came from Russian and Western Europe is more like America… if I am

allow to critique my homeland, I find our dancers often lack the clean lines and,

especially, the turnout that they require. But I was pleasantly surprised –

perhaps not all of the Western European dancers are Lucia Lacarra (our

Spanish prima here in Munich, who rivals any Kirov trainee) but their technique





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is quite solid, and quite turned out.

Since the publication of those two books – which I will order, thank you for

your recommendations! – legs have gotten a lot higher. In order for students to

be competitive nowadays, they have to get their legs to their ears – and hold it.

You can see this in the Prix de Lausanne competition photos, which are all over

the internet now as the competition is going on these weeks. Some people

credit (blame?) Balanchine, who taught his dancers to relax the hips in order to

create a more dramatic illusion (as in, raise the working side even if it throws off

the hips.) The Kirov now requires high legs now as well although they generally

insist that the hips do not move as long as possible, until the femur bone meets

the pelvis bone and the hip must give (http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=vMSZyZoB6y8&feature=related). Sort of like the grand pli�, and how they

insist upon the heels sticking until the last possible moment. This is most

difficult to the back, where many dancers incorrectly learn to tilt open their hips

as early as the tendu (turnout derri�re is the most difficult to achieve and the

heel sticking up – which happens until turnout comes – is quite appalling to the

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMSZyZoB6y8&feature=related




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dancer who has been used to looking at her instep).

The best way to get the legs to the ears is to stretch well through the over splits

(an example – midway through http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=QVTBisBKtv0) and learn to hold the legs from an extended position for

several seconds before slowly lowering it. Contrary to the turnout, where the

strength to hold it is more difficult than the flexibility, good extension is harder

achieving in terms of flexibility. Once you have the flexibility, holding your leg is

merely a matter of manually articulating the up position, and practicing with

the hold (much of which relies on the strength of the standing hip, as a branch

relies on a tree trunk). There is a great passage in Makarova’s autobiography

about her going to sleep in the splits often when she was younger, one leg

wrapped around her head.

This sort of stuff I learned from personal experience. Margot Fonteyn extension

is no longer marketable.

I don’t know exactly what flat feet would be good for, although I heard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVTBisBKtv0




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Vaganova liked them. But I think a lot of people get confused when ballet

mentions good arches because the arch of the foot medically – how high the

bottom of the foot is raised from the ground when standing – is different than

the ballet arch – the curve it achieves from the top of the ankle through the top

of the toes. (http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/25000000/beautiful-

svetlana-svetlana-zakharova-25030876-650-483.jpg) I have a very high arch

medically, but my ballet arch, unfortunately, is quite limited.

I still think that students who are serious about ballet need to stretch out their

balletic arch before age 10, when the bones start to harden. If you pull on the

foot before pressing down the toes, it will avert the danger of jamming the

ankle. We used to have our classmates standing on our toes, or we would loop

some ribbons over a plank to make a makeshift arch stretcher. I was late to this

contraption, unfortunately. Maya Plisetskaya thinks that people without good

feet (like myself) shouldn’t try to force unnatural positions through severe foot

stretchers, and that we should leave the ballet dreams to those who are

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naturally endowed. A harsh idea, and perhaps she is right. But it is common

knowledge in Russian that the ballet mothers are very successful at stretching

out the ballet arches of their daughters from infancy on. An ugly thought, but

true.

I still think that arch stretchers (http://www.footstretch.com/), carefully used

according to instructions, are a very good idea for someone who needs extra

help. Obviously, stretches aren’t enough without matching strength training –

learning to point their toes until it causes spasms during tendus, and, most

importantly, pointing while en point!

Demi pointe, from what I recall, was not helpful for stretching out the ballet

arch of the foot, although a splendid exercise for stretching out the medical

arch…

It is interesting what you say about softening the knee. I think you are on to

something! I am thinking that it has to do with how they straighten the knee –

and how they accomplish turnout. I already mentioned that I learned to anchor

http://www.footstretch.com/




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my turn out from second position by squeezing my knees inward using my

inner thigh – my adductors, to be specific. I have also noticed more recently,

while exploring what I remember, that I can turn out in fifth the same way,

providing I develop the “turnout” adductor muscles tight enough. In this way,

my fifth is not only straining to turn out, which give the knees more room to

close, but it is quite stable as the back knee is still locked, but from the inside. I

have noticed that this method of straightening the knee from the inside is

gentler on the knee in general, which can twist softly without the lock of the

quads impinging it.

Here is my latest find on you tube: a class with Joy Womack, an American, who

is now studying at the Bolshoi. You can still see that her turnout isn’t as

strongly rooted as some Russian dancers in the center exercises, but she is

quite beautiful with what she has. http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=DIBgTcE-83M

So far, I have found Natalie Makarova’s autobiography to be the most helpful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIBgTcE-83M




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because she is very conscious of the differences between American and

Vaganova training and how it plays out in their relative success. I was surprised

to learn that it was more than superior technique, and that, in fact, the most

important aspect of dancing for the Kirov had nothing to do with the body at all,

but rather the soul. In her opinion, the major difference between Russian and

Western training is that the Americans train the steps only, teaching the dancer

to “execute” rather than “dance.” This was exactly the reverse at the Vagonova

school, where the expression of the soul in dance far outweighed the technical

merits. Yet, to render perfect expression to the soul demanded perfect

technique, which is what inspired them to…perfect turnout, apparently.

Vaganova’s expertise, of course, had something to do with it too;-)

Reply ↓


I would love to visit Germany someday! I studied German in college






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and loved it.

Yes, I hear what you are saying that extensions today are higher than they

were 50 years ago (although the first book I recommended was actually

published very recently, in 2009). However, I feel very comfortable saying

that the method Vaganova founded is just as relevant today as it was then, in

regard to extensions and otherwise. The reason I am so confident is that I

understand how it works and I have seen it work, and I know that the

scientific community agrees with those principles.

The way that you get high extensions in ballet is complicated, because it

involves all of the MANY forms and rules. I may post an article about this

because this is a question I get asked a lot. People are very concerned with

being competitive in today’s world–which I completely understand!–but the

truth is that these practices of extreme static stretching (like what Makarova

did), or using various contraptions or partners to stretch, are potentially very

harmful as well as unnecessary when one has the proper training. The proper




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ballet training, of course, involves lots of stretching: but certain kinds of

stretches at certain times. It takes at least a year or two to develop extension,

and this is done in part by, a) having turn-out, b) the grande battement tendu

jete exercise, and c) releve lent at 90 degrees only for at least the first year

and a half of training. But again, that is only part of the story.

Similarly, developing the arch–which is, as you correctly stated, the top of the

foot, not the underside (that’s called the instep)–is a complicated process,

and it is more than just doing exercises on demi pointe, although that is an

important part of it, as Kostrovitskaya said. By the student’s 3rd year, all

exercises at the barre and in the center (except plie and rond de jambe par

terre) are done on demi pointe. I certainly never had this kind of training

before! By the way, there is another exercise which develops the instep…

when it is executed properly (although it very commonly isn’t).

People with flatter feet are better jumpers. Have you ever noticed this? It is

remarkably true, when you think about it, and I remember the drastic




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differences in the natural jumping quality of my fellow students. Of course,

the ideal foot would lie somewhere in between. Perhaps it is more important

to focus on how you train what you have, though… people with flat feet can

potentially develop some arch and people with very arched feet can

strengthen (particularly if they do that exercise I was talking about.)

Thank you for the video of Joy Womack. I have been interested in her,

because I know she got very seriously injured while she was out there and I

am curious to know what happens to her. I hope she stays well!

Reply ↓

Ana on February 1, 2012 at 1:42 pm said:

Hi Mary,

I would love to know your sources, yes. I have been looking, frustrated, by the

lack of pedagogical method in regards to developing turnout.





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In regards to the perfect fifth, yes, I would love to know more. In my mind, I

think it is the turn out that needs to come first in the priority sense – turnout

being the thing that gives the knees room to close without grinding each other.

But, to develop turn out, I think the knees need to be striving to straighten

anyway – straightening from the adductors (inner thighs) as they strain to turn

the leg out.

I was thinking about it a bit more today and I had a revelation to further my

thing about the Russian port de bras and why I say that its like the torso is free

from the hips. Western dancers try to hold their hips – because of their weak

turnout – too much with their abs. Turnout, when properly trained, comes

exclusively from the hips, allowing the torso to move freely without disrupting

the control of the hips. It goes against all the conceptions I ever learned in

ballet that there is only one proper torso, period. In fact, Natalie Makarova, in

her autobiography (which you would probably love), talks about this on page

122 – romantic ballets (like Giselle) requiring “a free-floating torso” and

classical ballets (like Swan Lake) requiring that torso is “absolutely straight.”




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The arms, too, vary according to her, depending on the mood and the voice the

dancer is trying to convey in her kinetic aria…

I am writing a novel based on my experience in ballet, and I have been

experiencing a bit of a ballet renaissance… the autobiographies I find are most

helpful. I already finished Deborah Bull’s ballet books, Gelsey Kirkland’s two

autobiographies (the second one particularly fascinating!), Natalie Makarova’s,

and I just started Maya Plisetskaya’s. Did you know Maya danced – and even

improved her technique – until she was over 70?!?

I am not a teacher, but if I were to teach, I think I would focus on just three

things for the first years – turnout, obviously the most important, extension,

and feet. The feet I would stress especially for younger children, whose bones

and ligaments are not all the way fused, and can still be molded. I know that is

counter to all the parents concerned with injuries, but I have never heard of a

dancer getting injured by carefully, firmly, stretching out the arch. On the other

hand, lousy feet caused me to get chronic achilles tendonitis, and, ultimately,




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spelled out my balletic doom. Good arches are necessary for easing the strain of

the tendon en pointe – getting the box under the leg. So good feet, stretching

the arch, but, also, learning to use good arches all the way – pointing from both

the achilles and the muscles under the foot, straining as hard as possible.

People that say that good arches are mere aesthetics make me angry – very

untrue, and very dangerous to little girl’s dreams.

Sorry about all the tangental rambling. I browsed your blog after my last post

(learning that it was you in that video!) and I love all the questions you are

asking and exploring. They are exactly the sort of things I think about. And I

have toddlers too – extremely helpful during stretching sessions when they

jump on my head;-)

Reply ↓







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Ha ha!! Yes, toddlers are so helpful with all their bouncing around and

climbing on top of mommy jungle gym. ;-)

I love the questions you are asking too; very interesting things to think about!

I just posted about the turn-out from fifth, which hopefully explains the

distinction. It’s not a bending at the knee, rather a slight “softening” (for lack

of a better word) which allows the space to turn-out. Some people will need to

do this more than others, especially in the beginning when the student is just

developing the turn-out muscles. What you said is right: the first “priority” is

to turn-out, although not without the proper stance of course, which includes

pulling up with all your might on both legs at all times. So you are striving for

a straight leg as much as possible, but in the case of 5th position it is often

impossible to have the knee in a fully “locked-out” position.

I think you are on to something about the torso, which really is an important

part of the dancer’s makeup. I just learned, and am beginning to notice

myself, that there is a big difference between the torsos of dancers who have




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been trained this way (the Russian dancers from the era of Baryshnikov) and

dancers who have not. The difference is that, by turning-out (and all the

correct posture that comes with turning out), the lower back becomes highly

developed and strengthened. The lower back is what holds the torso strong,

and as Kostrovitskaya said in her book, School of Classical Dance (the original

textbook of the Vaganova School), lower back strength is most important. She

says,

“For the execution of most of the movements that have been described in this

book, stability (aplomb) is essential.

‘The centre of balance is in the spine,’ A.Y. Vaganova said in her book, Basic

Principles of Classical Ballet.

Defining this in more detail, it should be added that, for the stability of the

body, the one most important thing is the gradual development of the small

but very strong muscles in the small of the back, approximately in the area of

the fifth vertebra.

Precisely this part of the back (with lowered shoulders and shoulder blades)




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must be felt by the dancer as if tightened and pulled upwards.

While in the first year it is not recommended that the small of the back be

pulled up too strongly (for this can lead to an undesirable “caving in” of the

back), in the following years, a well-developed back not only helps to provide

stability in the poses and in tours on the floor and in the air, but makes

possible a thorough mastery of the movements of the body as well. For the

complicated work of the torso which consists of harmonious transitions from

one pose to another, small inclinations and bends in the adagio, in the barre

and centre exercise, in allegro, and in movements on pointe, furthers a more

complete mastery of the whole complex of dance movements and,

consequently, permits the development of technique and a high artistic

quality of execution.”

She then goes on to say that “development of technique” doesn’t mean fast

chaines or a great number of fouettes. REAL technique is “only when the

body, arms, and head of the dancer become the means by which the language

of dance is expressed and are responsive to every emotion.” There is so much




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in this book, I could just go on and on about it!

Speaking of books, the resources I recommend for learning teaching method

are from Dr. Peggy Willis-Aarnio (perhaps you have read some of my articles

about her?). For understanding turn-out, I would highly recommend her first

book in a new series called, “How To Teach: The First 3 Days” (go to my

“Shop” page for info on how to order). Obviously, I also recommend “School

of Classical Dance” by Vera Kostrovitskaya and Alexei Pisarev. For the highest

level of detail, we host teacher’s courses. I don’t know if you are still dancing

at all after your achilles tendonitis, but if you are this would help you by

teaching you how to give yourself lessons following the method. We are

working on the possibility of a tour this summer, and possibly a course as

early as this spring, so if you are interested in having Dr. Willis-Aarnio come

to your area, please let me know.

About the arch of the foot: this is developed by strength + stretching, which

you understand since you correctly said that the muscles of the foot and the




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achilles need to be fully stretched. In other words, the development of the

foot comes from exercises that develop strength at the same time as

stretching out the foot (for example, exercises on demi pointe). Merely trying

to stretch out your foot without pulling up through the foot is very dangerous

as it can cause the tendons and ligaments to stretch (which, once stretched,

will never regain their original elasticity, which is needed for jumps.) You are

right that good arches are needed for getting up on pointe. Flatter feet are

good for something too, though… have you noticed what that is?

Regarding extension, Kostrovitskaya says in her book that the grand

battement tendu jete exercise is what develops extension by actively

promoting the elasticity of the muscles and tendons of the inside of the thigh

and increasing the mobility of the hip joint (these, she says, are the two main

factors in the acquirement of extension). Again, like with the feet, the grand

battement tendu jete exercise is an ACTIVE throwing of the leg, not a passive,

static stretch, and therefore develops flexibility at the same time as strength.




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Please let me know how you like Maya Plisetskaya’s autobiography. I haven’t

read it but would love to when I get the time: what a remarkable dancer!!

Mary

Reply ↓

Ana on January 30, 2012 at 3:33 am said:

I meant to include this video of Svetlana Zakharova in class to illustrate

what I mean by the extraordinary turnout of Russian dancers –

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAwWu-AVdwg.

Reply ↓


Dear Ana,



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAwWu-AVdwg





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I agree with you that turn-out is the reason dancers develop long, balanced

muscles. It is as you said: When you are turned-out, you must fully engage

the proper muscles in order to balance. Turning in, even slightly, does not

allow the dancer to “find her center” (as Vaganova put it in her book). It’s like

cheating: a pedestrian way. If you train in this way you will never develop the

muscles properly and you will have to start all over.

This is why, in the method of training which Vaganova founded, the student

is instructed to turn-out from Day 2. The thought that learning turn-out is a

gradual, or incremental, process is a misconception: It is NOT a gradual

process (although those who truly cannot turn-out on Day 2 will likely be able

to improve if they use their fullest turn-out possible). The gradual process is

in developing the strength to HOLD turn-out in all of the exercises at the

barre and in the center.

To give an example: What is the purpose of the battement tendu exercise

(which is, as you correctly stated, repeated without combination in the




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beginning)? It is to develop and reinforce turn-out. If the student does not

execute her battement tendus at the barre in a turned-out position from the

beginning (on Day 2), she will be doing the exercise incorrectly, it will not

serve its true purpose, and she will only have to go back later and learn it all

over again.

This method, which was used by the Russians in the Soviet Era, details

exactly how to turn-out; there is no need to figure it out all over again. If you

are interested in learning this method, I can direct you to the definitive

resources. By the way, the lady asking the question on the video is me; this

was back before I had access to these resources and before I took a teacher’s

course. I have since learned the correct answer to that question, which is a

little more complicated than simply, “you must have both.” I can explain

more, if you are interested.

Thank you for the comment!

Mary




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Reply ↓

Ana on January 30, 2012 at 3:26 am said:

I studied Vaganova, culminating in a summer at the Kirov in DC when I

was 17 – not much for a career pinnacle, but I was fascinated by the Russian

technique and thrilled to observe it in such close quarters. When you see a

Russian dancer from the side, even in first or fifth, you are looking at the top of

their quadraceps – their gluts are merely curves that recede deep into their

hips. Compared to the bulk and knotted appearance of Western trained hips

and thighs, theirs were smaller and smoother. It is like their turnout muscles

are so lengthened that they flow down a turned out position as lightly and easily

as ribbons from a maypole.

I think this extraordinary turn out is the key to their noticably cleaner line,

more efficient use of energy, as well as their stability, extension, etc. etc.





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Like you, I puzzled endlessly over how they did it – how they managed to grip

the turnout muscles so well. It was obvious that they were trained to

muscularly engage the turn out � from the hips, even in fifth. Natural

flexibility doesn�t give you those muscles, and everyone knows what happens

when you are straining to turn out from the hips in first position � absolutely

nothing.

I think I figured out a method to it. It seconds what George talks about with

dynamic rotation as your legs spread, and what Vaganova says about how the

aim of plies in second position are to �develop the turn-out of the hips� (p.

19 in the Dover version). I discovered it in class by accident, when I was trying

to straighten my knees (not from plie but from a relaxed standing) in second

position. I had noticed that the Russian dancers don�t straighten their knees

using their quads as much as their hamstrings, thus avoiding the boxy thighs.

So, standing in second, pulling up, legs straight, I squeezed the knees inward

using my inner thigh muscles. That is when I felt the loosening and external




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rotation of the hips.

I held that position, and squeezed with all my might to some how impress upon

my muscle memory the shape and existence of these �turn-out muscles.�They were conveniently sore for the following few days. It took awhile,

strengthening these, disengaging the others, looking for these good muscles in

other positions, finding them and strengthening them there too. It takes a lot

work, but from these muscles, if you insist upon them, search for them

obsessively, they will eventually straighten your hips out, even in fifth.

As I worked through them over time, I learned that it is as if you are

disengaging all other hip muscles. It helps me to find these muscles more

intensely, for instance, if I imagine that I am lengthening out of my hips. In

short, it means intense retraining, which is why it is so difficult for Western

dancers to achieve.

It won�t work, for instance, if you take this exercise out of context of proper

ballet posture, or fail to work these muscles, carefully, slowly, into the rest of




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your ballet class, especially in fifth position. Russian ballet starts out extremely

slow, extremely repetitive (you memorize the class in early levels instead of

memorizing new combinations so that you can focus on the how rather than the

what), and Russians won�t advance you until you have mastered the �easy

stuff� like plies. “Mastering”, of course, entails 180 degree turnout, dominated

by a firm grip on turned out hips. As Vaganova said, it is better to do one step 8

times rather than eight new steps once.

Two Russian training experiences stay with me. Alla Sizova, who was my

teacher that summer, taught me to lean back so far in my posture that I felt like

I was falling backwards. But it wasn�t back. It was up. Up up up! Up until you

think you are going to fall backwards. If you can manage this intense posture

even in one set of plies, you core abdomen muscles, among others, will strain

hard. Especially in plies, this posture forces turnout simply to keep your

balance � turned out knees acting as a counterbalance to your �turned out�torso. I think this is the “secret” related to the Kirov port de bras. I see a lot of

American torsos squeezed and knotted with tension. Torsos should be knitted




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tightly by iron core muscles, but, within these muscles, they should feel free,

not tense.

Mme. Dellas, another Kirov teacher who periodically gave Master Classes to my

home studio, was extremely strict to the point that you were terrified of her.

She wasn�t Russian, but she managed that particular �Russian teacher

aura� very effectively. She got so angry at our lousy fifth positions one class

that she made us stand in fifth for five minutes straight, straining as hard as we

possibly could. �Harder! Harder!� We all thought we were going to die by the

second minute, sweating profusely. My fifth position was markedly improved

ever since, and, in one of my legs in particular, those turn out muscles got

�anchored.�That lady on the video was asking if it is more important to keep the knees

straight or the foot turned out, and the Russian answer is absolutely yes to

both. If a dancer is not straining hard to achieve a fifth in all of its perfection,

then they have no business in ballet. Ballet is hard and dancers must strain for




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utter perfection because correct ballet is just that.

Reply ↓

Nicole on December 20, 2011 at 6:56 pm said:

Since I was at a begining level, I’ve been taking ballet lessons from a

teacher who trained at the vaganova ballet school in Russia. She constantly

pedtered me about how my legs are never turned out. It has always been a

problem for me and in the past couple years it’s really stood out. I have great

natural hip felxibility but for some reason when I use my turn out in class, no

matter how hard I try I can never reach the perfect 180 degree turn out. Some

of my dance friends think that I can turnout great from the hips, but from my

knees down my legs turn in. Is this an accurate conclusion I should come to? If

so, how do I deal with it?

Reply ↓






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Mary on December 22, 2011 at 9:18 am said:

Hello Nicole,

I think I know exactly how you feel. It is sometimes very easy to turn-out at

the hips (like in passe), but when it comes to standing in a turned-out

position it can seem so difficult!

Turn-out is the sum total of turn-out it the hips, knees and ankles. Most of

the turn-out comes from the hips, so since you don’t have trouble with this

part then you are probably mostly there! It may be possible that you aren’t

turning out enough from the knees down. It could also be that you haven’t

been taught how to turn-out correctly, meaning you haven’t developed the

strength to hold your turn-out. It takes a lot of time to learn how to hold your

turn-out (although, with the correct instruction, you should be able to stand

in a turned-out position at the barre right away).





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Would you like to send me a picture of your current turn-out? I might be able

to help you a bit that way. I would also recommend that you try reading Dr.

Peggy Willis-Aarnio’s book, “How To Teach, Book 1: Introduction and the

First Three Days” which gives a detailed description of how to turn-out (on

the second day of training) with photos.

Thanks for the great question,

Mary

Reply ↓

George Ou on October 17, 2011 at 3:06 am said:

I started ballet at 21. Previously a bodybuilder and highschool football

player.

I started with 60 degrees turnout which was very difficult for me. After 3

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months of stretching (you can count on football player work ethic), I was up to

150 degrees. After 2 years, I was at 180 degrees in first position. After 3 years, I

had a high passe with toes above kneecap and was flat as a pancake, and I

looked like this.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86883044@N00/1920096344

Recent photos



Reply ↓

Mary on October 19, 2011 at 8:10 am said:

Hi George,

Thank you for sharing your experience with turn-out and those photos! I am

always interested to hear how other people get to 180 degrees.

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Which was the hardest aspect for you? Stretching to get more rotation, or

strength-building to hold the turn-out?

Thanks again for your comment,

Mary

Reply ↓

George Ou on October 20, 2011 at 3:48 am said:

The first thing I attacked was flexibility and a lot can be accomplished

by a body that would have never made the cut in Russian or Chinese

Vagonova schools. I’m not particularly impressed with students who are

naturals at it because they never worked for it and their experience is of no

help to most of the prospective dancers.

I sat in the V and took deep breaths and dropping my face forward towards

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the floor. I started with my body straight up (which was the most forward I

could go) and after 30 minutes of breathing where I dropped a millimeter

on every exhale but didn’t come up on inhale, I could eventually touch my

head to the floor by curving the back after 3 months. I would also keep my

legs rotated out as I leaned forward and that increased my outward

rotation. But I had to stretch at least 30 minutes for the first 2 years before

ballet class to achieve this extreme change to my body. It took 3 years

before it got easier without such a long pre-class stretch. It took 4 years for

me to achieve a perfectly flat frog position laying on my stomach.

Now as for strength, that was built as I worked in a more rotated position

than I could possibly hold while cold. I always stretched before class to

make sure that I could do the barre and class in as rotated and open and

flat a position as possible.

The other key thing to understand about turn out is that we have more hip

socket rotation as the legs separate. Even very turned out girls lose hip




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rotation as they get to first, and even more so in fifth. But dancers can use

rotation below the knee socket safely by not using knee or ankle socket

rotation, but using the twisting action of the tibia and fibula. These two

pairs of bones in the lower leg can twist around each other much like the

two bones in the forearm twist to allow our hands to rotate 180 degrees.

The tibia and fibula in my limited ability can rotate 26 degrees

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86883044@N00/6179972815. Diana

Vishneva can pull off 80 degrees (yikes)


Even in your video where you were asking a question and that very flexible

little girl was in a tight 5th with toes to heel, she relied on rotation below

the knee socket. Her knees were only about 120 degrees rotated out but her

foot was 180 degrees rotated out.

Now when the dancer plies in 5th, the hip socket opens and can rotate

more. This allows the knees to swing out more and safely go over the toes.






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As the knees straighten, the hip rotation will go down and the dancer

reverts to below-the-knee rotation which many teachers shun. But

realistically, all high level dancers use below-the-knee rotation to some

degree or another and it’s easy to verify if you measure the knee rotation

versus foot rotation.

This concept of dynamically changing turnout is crucial. This is why I can

work in a perfectly flat seconde position despite having difficulty in a fifth

position. As the thighs separate, I increase rotation and shoot my legs

straight out to the side.

Mary on October 20, 2011 at 8:51 am said:

Hi George,

Very interesting concept of “dynamically changing” turn-out. I never

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thought about it that way before, although I do agree that there is some

rotation that comes from the knees and ankles. (Vaganova says in her book

that turn-out is the sum of the rotation of the hip, knee, and ankles.) Thank

you for the very interesting comment! I will ponder that for a while…

Mary

George Ou on October 20, 2011 at 4:34 pm said:

Dynamic rotation of the hip socket is the reason we can rotate more

standing in 2nd position than 5th. Most of us can go well beyond 180 in 2nd

or even 1st position but 5th is very difficult. And when the working leg is

straight out to the side, some flexible dancers can even rotate the heel

completely towards the front while most of us can rotate a little more

towards the front.

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Look in your own video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu3ZXgF3msQ

at the 20 second mark when you pull the girl’s right toe back to touch her

left heel. Observe how the knee didn’t turn out any more even though the

foot rotated more. Most of that last bit of rotation that allowed toes to

touch heels came from the foot. Now if this didn’t cause a lot of torque on

her ankle and knees, and probably didn’t since it looked effortless, that’s

fine. That works because she has a high range of rotation below the knee

whereas I would be screaming in pain if you did that to me.

Also, the reason dancers cheat with a softened knee is that it allows the hip

to open a bit and the dynamically increasing rotation takes effect. When we

soften the knee or plie, we have much more rotation from the hip socket.

When we go to a fully crossed 5th, we have the least hip rotation. So when

Conrad says to work more in 1st and stay straight and drawn up, this works

because the hips isn’t as crossed and have more rotation. But I would also

make an alternative suggestion which is to work in a slightly less crossed

5th with full 180 rotation and fully straightened knee socket. Then work to

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cross more as much as possible while maintaining full rotation until the

body reaches its genetic potential.

Personally, I think the fully crossed and fully rotated 180 5th is overrated.

Most dancers (even Kirov) don’t use all of it when they actually dance.

Example would be standing leg in passe or both legs in Bourr�e.

A professional dancer will be judged more on his/her legs in seconde,

passe, arabesque or back attitude, front attitude or straight. I don’t have a

tight 5th, but I take full advantage of dynamic rotation and worked to

strengthen these positions. That gives me a completely flat high passe and I

have more front attitude rotation and back attitude rotation than most

girls.

Dmitri Roudnev on May 6, 2011 at 7:25 pm said:

http://www.balletrussian.org/




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Hello Mary

I am here, with the most of what you have interest in.

Sincerely

Dmitri Roudnev

Reply ↓

Mary on May 6, 2011 at 10:53 pm said:

Hello Dmitri,

Thank you! I would be most grateful for your help in understanding this

matter of turn-out.

For instance, does the Vaganova method demand 180 degrees from the very

beginning (even when the student does not naturally possess such “perfect”

turn-out)? My understanding is that students in the Vaganova method are

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placed in 180 degrees from the very start, although developing the muscles to

correctly maintain their turn-out as they stand and move is a process. Is that

true?

Thank you very much and please feel free to comment as much as you like!

Reply ↓

Dmitri Roudnev on May 8, 2011 at 3:22 pm said:

Yes, that is true ballet training in Russia requires to start with 180

degree feet position.

What is interesting that Vaganova insists on beginning to learn most of

ballet steps starting to the side then to the front and back. There are no

explanations for the reason.

Sincerely

Dmitri Roudnev

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Mary on May 9, 2011 at 2:57 pm said:

Very interesting! I didn’t know that about teaching steps to the side

before front and back. Maybe it has to do with learning not to sit in the hip

because it is somewhat easier to correct to the side?

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