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COUNCIL MEETING Monday, September 8, 2003, 7:00 pm
Town Hall 75 Main Street, Southington
TOWN 7:00 pm Public Hearing
A Public Hearing Session of the Town Council Meeting of the Town of
Southington was held on Monday, September 8, 2003. Chairman Edward M.
Malczyk called the Public Hearings to order at 7:00 pm.
The following Councilpersons were present, viz:
John Barry Victoria Triano Arthur Secondo William DePaolo Mary Baker Philip Landino Michael Riccio Edward Malczyk
Ex-Officio Members present were as follows, viz:
John Weichsel, Town Manager Mark Sciota, Town Attorney Anthony Tranquillo, Town Engineer
Absent:
James Verderame
There were approximately 30 other persons in attendance.
EDWARD MALCZYK, Chairman, presiding:
1. Proposed Ordinance appropriating $1,750,000 for the Misery Brook
Sanitary Sewer Interceptor Emergency Bypass Project, authorizing the
issuance of bonds or notes in the same amount to finance said
appropriation and providing that sewerage system user charges shall
be charged to defray such appropriation or debt service on bonds or
notes issued to finance such appropriation.
MR. WEICHSEL: We have Tony to make a very brief presentation.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Mr. Chairman and Council members, on the map you have
in front of you, you’ll see in yellow, existing sewer lines in the
area of Meriden Avenue where Misery Brook crosses underneath the
street.
A pipeline 24 inches in diameter, built in 1961, runs in this
location. And ultimately down to Recreation Park. There is a 15 inch
main here built in 1964, called the Meadow Wood Interceptor and an 8
inch main here built by the deceased P. J. Delahunty back in 1967 or
1968.
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Around Christmas of last year, we received a report that there was
some sewage coming into a pond at the intersection of Meriden Avenue
and South End Road. When we investigated that through the treatment
plant, we found that there was a blockage somewhere in this system,
in this section here. They entered this manhole with a sewer jet and
were able to fee up the flow. But it was obvious at that point that
there were considerable problems there. There was some sort of a clog
or collapse in this area.
After considerable effort and after being unable to go all of the way
between the manhole, we decided that rather than to dig in this area
to try to discover what the problem was, the main in that area is
about 20 feet deep, very poor soils with utilities all around a major
roadway. We decided to construct, in orange, a by pass.
Now originally we had decided we were going to construct this section
of the interceptor, by passing this problem area. It started here and
proceeded to the edge of Meriden Avenue. It was difficult conditions.
But, workable.
As soon as we hit Meriden Avenue at this location where the pavement
is located, those conditions got much, much worse. We ended up
installing steel sheeting, concrete at the bottom of the hole. A
very, very ugly condition there.
In order to lay the first 20 feet from the edge of the road to this
manhole, we were tied up there about 5 or 6 weeks. When we reached
this location, we found that even this main had some problems. So, we
had to rebuild this section of the main here, the 15 inch, and then
we proceeded to build this to complete the by pass.
The by pass is plastic pipe which is more inert and less corrosion
problems with that. The problem we found at the end of construction
was there was hydrogen sulfide generation, which creates sulphuric
acid and eats the top of the pipe out. This manhole down to
approximately this point. We actually took a piece of that pipe and
we have it available if the Council wishes to see that.
The final cost of about 1.7 million was far more than any one
anticipated. But the soil conditions there were probably the worst
that I’ve seen in 31 years and I’m sure John has probably seen no
worse conditions in his 40+ years in the management field.
We’re very hopeful that we won’t have this kind of problem at some
point in the future. John DeGioia who will be here this evening is
going to be monitoring and tv-ing a good part of the system,
especially the older portion of the system to try to anticipate these
kind of conditions so they do not become an emergency situation.
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The reason this cost so much, obviously, is because it is an
emergency situation. You’re on a time and material basis with the
contractor, which always costs you premium. If we can foresee some of
these problems, we’d actually put out a contract and bid it out and
we’d get more competitive bids.
Not to scare the Council, but we do have a condition right now on
South End Road, which may require some replacement of the 8-inch main
there. That will be nothing like this. It’s very shallow, very low
flow, very decent soils in those areas. So, we are looking at the
rest of the system to make sure this doesn’t happen again.
The system as I indicate here, is a very resistant to corrosion. The
manholes were coated with a special coating so that the acid will not
eat at those, either. We’re confident that that main will be there
long after all of us are gone. We put a first class condition. We
should not have any further problems in that area.
Does the Council have any questions?
MS. TRIANO: I just wanted to reiterate something that Tony said and
he said that the situation, first of all, was critical. That it was
actually a crisis situation. There was a breakdown that had to be
addressed, right, Tony?
MR. TRANQUILLO: Correct.
MS. TRIANO: It wasn’t optional. It wasn’t we could put it off until a
better time. And, the other thing was that it was immediate. We
needed to take action immediately and because of that, we had to make
it on a time sensitive --- that’s why the cost was so high. I just
wanted to reiterate that for the folks in the audience that may have
some question about why it was so expensive and why we didn’t put it
off or anything like that.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Well, the other factor, Councilwoman, is that the
project was done, if you’ll remember, during the middle of winter. We
had tremendous snowstorms and unbelievable cold weather. Which
obviously, makes the working conditions very difficult.
I might add that in spite of the 1.75 million dollar cost, we got
lucky, because when we began constructing or reconstructing this
area, we found a cavern under the road where the material, soil had
washed into that pipe. That could have fit a car. Now if that road
had collapsed and someone had been injured, we would have been liable
for millions of dollars. So, really there is a silver lining. We did
get lucky in some respects.
MS. TRIANO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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THE CHAIR: It should also be understood, too, that as one of the five
projects, this one is already done. So, in a sense, there’s not much
of an option. We have to pay.
Any other questions? Any comments from the audience?
By the way, first let me say this, too. The cooperation with the
adjoining property owners was tremendous. Pat is here and he is one
of them and I want to thank you all for helping us. I had a couple of
meetings and believe me, I think that also made a very difficult
situation much better for everyone to go through.
So, Pat, just publicly I’d like to thank you and also the other
property owners that were there.
MR.PORIELLO: Thank you, but that was part of my duty, the same as the
officials of the Town that took such immediate action on something
that was really very, very important. It could have been a disaster
for 3500 houses.
THE CHAIR: Pat, could I just ask you to give your name and address.
MR.PORIELLO: Pat Poriello, 836 Meriden Avenue. We live right next to
the brook, Misery Brook.
I’m in favor of the bond and other bonds, which are needed to run
this fine Town. I’m especially interested in this bond, which is
needed to pay for expenses of the Misery Brook Interceptor, which had
a blockage and a breakdown.
Thanks to an alert citizen who notified the officials of the overflow
of the sewers and the work was done on it immediately. A special
thanks to workers that the Town picked for the job. The men went
above and beyond their job. They worked every day through ice, snow,
cold, rain, the worst weather possible. But they just kept at it. I
couldn’t believe it. I was right there watching them every day. They
all kept working at this sewer to keep the line open to the 3500
houses.
It could have been a disaster but everyone kept working at the job
and saved it. Special thanks to Jim Gura who was also on the job
every day and sometimes also in the middle of the night. I called him
that one of the pumps one night stopped working. He had notified me
to call him if that happened. I know he was there other nights, too,
to keep the pumps running.
Also John was there, John Weichsel was there, kept his eye on the
job. The Town Engineer, Tony Tranquillo, was always there. John
DeGioia, the Sewer Superintendent. It was just a good reaction from
all the Town and I think they deserve good thanks for it.
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Thank you.
THE CHAIR: Anyone else wishing to speak on this issue?
MR. POMPOSI: I want to say my piece early because I know you are
going to get involved with all this other stuff.
Phil Pomposi, 1215 Pleasant Street. Not necessarily just for this,
but for all the items on the Agenda regarding these appropriations
for these ordinances. As you know, our Board was in favor of all of
these with one small change, which you went ahead and overrode
anyway. That’s not what I object to. I’m in favor of these.
What I do object to and what I read in the paper and what I
understand is that the plan is to have this referendum three weeks
before the regular election and if that’s the case, that’s wrong. I
mean, we’re going to have a general election and I would think with
these kind of numbers and these kind of important items that you want
to give as many people as possible the opportunity to vote on this
and you know, other than the added expense which there will be
because of a referendum prior to the regular election.
In checking with our Registrar of Voters, Bob Sherman, this
referendum, you’ll have one school open, one voting place, and a
portion of the day. I think it’s wrong for the taxpayers of this
community to be denied the right to vote on these. I mean, if this
came six months ago or a year ago when we don’t have an election, but
we have an election three years in a row, I mean, three weeks later,
and there’s really no excuse we can use other than the fact that it’s
a well known fact that referendums usually don’t get too many people
to vote. It may be, I don’t know if that’s the reason or not, but I
hope it’s not.
I don’t think you are going to have any problem with any of these,
but I think most of the people should vote on this. So, I certainly
hope that you change that part of this item. I don’t think you could
justify to the voters and the people of this community to ask them to
spend this kind of money, but not give them the opportunity to vote.
There are a lot of people that may not be able to vote in a
referendum three weeks before a regular election because either they
can’t get to that one particular spot, or because of the time of day,
whatever. It’s just not right and I would hope you would consider
that and put that on at the regular election.
Thank you.
THE CHAIR: John, if you could address that?
MR. WEICHSEL: Mr. Pomposi, there is a statutory problem. There is no
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way to get it on the November ballot. There’s a statute that requires
that all bonding matters be complete ignoring the day of the event
and the day of the last publication of sixty days. We don’t have
sixty days. I moved as quickly as I could on this. There are 35 items
in the checklist for each of the five bond issues, so that is not a
possibility. It cannot legally be put on the November 4th election.
MR.POMPOSI: What is it, John, is it sixty days ---
MR. WEICHSEL: Sixty days ignoring the day, November 4th and the date
of the publication of this action which is occurring tonight, which
would mean at the best you would get it in the paper by tomorrow,
well you couldn’t even get it by tomorrow, but you get it in by the
11th. There’s no way to get sixty days, obviously, so that is not an
option.
MR. POMPOSI: When you say it’s got to be done 60 days after we, what,
tonight, or . . .
MR. WEICHSEL: Yes, you would need 60 days ignoring the date of
publication which was as I say, assuming the papers are cooperative,
on the 11th we would get it in and the earliest you could get an
election would be if the general election were November 13th. That’s
not the case. The November election is the 4th, so we do not have the
days and quite frankly these issues, not the least of which the first
one which we’ve already got in the ground, really have to be acted
upon.
MR. POMPOSI: Well, if that’s the case, you know, I would suggest that
you really consider getting it to be available to voted on in more
places than one particular spot. It’s going to cost money, but I
mean, you have to give the people this opportunity and you have to
stay open all day.
I don’t know, I’m going by what John says and I assume that that’s
correct.
But, I’ll make sure.
MR. RICCIO: Do the voters have the opportunity if they can’t make it
in a special election to vote by ballot, absentee ballot?
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Absolutely.
MR. RICCIO: So, I mean, if we could just put that out there, to
address Phil’s concerns, if someone can’t make it for location or
date, they could at least vote by ballot.
MR. WEICHSEL: That is always the case, Councilman, for every
election.
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MR. RICCIO: Okay.
MR. WEICHSEL: There’s always absentee ballots.
MR. RICCIO: Thank you.
THE CHAIR: Anyone else? Okay.
2. Proposed Ordinance appropriating $10,000,000 for the Carl M. Small
Regional Vocational Agriculture Center project and authorizing the
issue of bonds and notes to defray such portion of the appropriation
as is not defrayed from grants.
THE CHAIR: Is there a presentation on this first?
MR.WEICHSEL: Yes, there are several people here from the school. I’m
not sure who is going to say what.
DR. POLANSKY: Good evening. I’m Dr. Harvey Polansky, Superintendent
of Schools and it is my pleasure tonight to provide you a brief
overview of our plans for the vo-ag center.
Of immediate concern to the Council, initially during this process
was assurance of the reimbursement rate. State Statute copies and the
law was sent to the Town Manager early on and we can confirm it is at
95%.
The vo-ag center currently is housed in the high school. In my mind,
this is a wonderful solution for both the vo-ag center and a rapidly
overcrowding high school. It will essentially free up 10,000 sf of
the high school and provide much needed programming space that meets
national and state standards and benchmarks in the vo-ag program. Vo-
ag is very different than it was ten years ago, five years ago. It is
a regional program. We receive revenue from this program. We receive
state grants from this program. And, it’s really a wonderful program
that enhances our high school.
Friar Associates, Ms. Stannard and her staff, have worked diligently
with a group of parents to outline what this program will look like.
The building will be housed currently where the tennis courts are.
The tennis courts, which will be moved first, will go parallel to
Pleasant Street with the appropriate sun angles.
The practice football field will then be moved to a different site on
our grounds.
In the high school, it will allow us a variety of new programming
opportunities to handle the 2100 to 2400 students that will occupy
our high school in the next three to four years.
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AT 95% reimbursement, the total cost of less than $500,000, this
gives us an additional 91 parking spots. It brings our vo-ag program
to state of the art of an already outstanding program. It expands
curriculum offerings and it provides much more flexibility for the
students and the community.
We’ve asked Brian Solawater from Friar Associates to come here with
his staff and we can entertain any questions that you might have.
THE CHAIR: Any questions from the Council?
Are there any statements from the taxpayers?
ROBERT FARO: 38 Huntington Circle. I just had a couple of questions.
First of all, I like the idea of taking away from the high school
enrollment. What’s the cost going to be on a yearly basis to
Southington on this? How much do we get reimbursed by the state? Is
it more than we would from the high school?
DR. POLANSKY: We receive revenue, right there are 90-some odd
students. Our revenue from the other Towns will increase to 150
students. That coupled with state aid for the program, we provided an
outline of the specific costs on this program for you earlier that
was requested. We think that in the long-term it’s a moneymaker and
not a money loser. As the programs expands, so too, will revenue and
state aid.
THE CHAIR: We get paid state grants, plus also these are tuition
students, the ones that come from other Towns.
MR. FARO: The other thing is, when is this going to be completed? A
date?
THE CHAIR: Everything is projected.
DR. POLANSKY: Well, it really depends on, I would be presumptuous to
state when it would be completed. I think there is ---usually, the
state will reimburse us on an as going basis. So, essentially, the
state reimbursement comes in as we start building. If we break
ground, hopefully, during the summer, then it’s about a year and it
is a self sustaining building, we can move like gangbusters to get
that done.
THE CHAIR: Harvey, I don’t think anybody is going to be critical of
you for being reluctant to give finishing dates on school.
DR. POLANSKY: Given my experience, dates are uh ----
MR. FARO: Well, my concern is what happened to our elementary schools
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for the upgrading and what happened there. I just hope that this
project goes off well.
THE CHAIR: We all do. We all do.
MR. FARO: Thank you. DR. POLANSKY: Yes, I am a little gun shy to give a date of any kind,
but what we said was we did not want to have construction with
students in the building and we think we can provide this in a self
contained environment and move rather quickly.
GERRY BELANGER: 98 Dawn Lane. I’d like to echo everything Harvey just
said. I had a whole list of stuff, but he stole my thunder here, so,
I guess I don’t have to say it all. One point I did want to make was the other reason for getting it on
the October 14th referendum was I think we have to have paperwork in
to the State by November 1st?
Oh, November 15th, so strike two. Maybe I’ll quit while I’m ahead.
So, I am in favor of this and hope we can put it to the referendum.
Thank you.
SUSAN SKARVINKO: Good evening, Susan Skarvinko, 119 Rockwood Drive. I
am the current president of the Southington High School PTO.
I’d just like to thank the Council for putting this in front of the
voters in such an expeditious fashion. Those of us who have children
at the high school and who are in the high school know how urgently
we need space in that area.
I think one thing Dr. Polansky didn’t mention is that we will also
gain cafeteria space, which is something that is sorely needed there.
As we know, there is no such thing as a free lunch, but this comes as
close to anything you can imagine with a 95% state reimbursement
rate. And, just to echo, there will be no construction with kids in
the building. This is a huge plus for us all.
Again, as I say, you may be interested to know that agriculture is
still American’s number one employer considering all the fields that
are related to it and this will just only add to the offerings that
our high school has made available. We are what we call a
comprehensive high school. We have a lot of kids to service and this
is just one more program that will help our high school be
comprehensive.
It’s a win, win situation. It’s a plus for everybody.
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Thank you very much.
JOHN MOISE: Stonegate Road. I just have a statement. The proposed vo-
ag center seems to be a good deal for the Town of Southington. The
95% reimbursement rate from the state is as true as it seems to be,
how can we go wrong?
What we need to know is what the 5% includes, unfortunately. What are
the surrounding Towns that our vo-ag center uses? How many students
does the vo-ag center cater to? What is the amount of students per
Town?
If the state is paying 95% to build a vo-ag center in Southington,
why wouldn’t one of the other Towns jump at the chance to build this
facility in their own Town?
One of the great things about building a new vo-ag center in
Southington is that it will open up some classroom space at the high
school. I believe this space would also be opened up if the vo-ag
center went to another Town.
According the Towns from Friar Associates, given out at the BOE
meeting on August 14th, it would have cost approximately $500,000 for
existing building renovations at the high school. This would seem a
better deal for the Town as we could continue to see the high school
bursting at the seams. It may also alleviate some of the parking
problems at the high school, as well.
The total cost of this project is $9,906,980 minus 95% according to
the state. Therefore, Southington has to pay approximately $500,000
to open up the high school. Why not let another Town take on the vo-
ag center? Has this avenue been discussed with other Towns and the
state. If the state is paying Southington 95% and the cost escalates,
as it has been known to happen with construction, is the Town help
responsible for whatever that amount may be? That cost would probably
have to be absorbed by the Southington taxpayers.
Finally, as you know, we have a new ordinance that this Town Council
has passed with respect to any municipal construction over $1
million. For this project, the Town would have to pay the salary of a
project manager to oversee this project to insure we do not have
another Hatton and Strong debacle. Is this going to be paid by the
Town? Or is this included in the 95% that the state is paying. And,
how about the interest on the $9.9 million, as well?
There are many questions that I have asked at this public hearing to
get a better understanding of what the BOE and its administration
have proposed. The questions that I have raised, I feel needed to be
asked and if the public feels the vo-ag center is the way to go, then
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that is what will happen.
I believe after what this Town has been through over the past four
years, we need to really understand what we are once again asking our
residents approval for. It’s 95% that the state is paying – it’s
great. But let’s look at the 5% and what it really entails before we
move forward. At this point, the taxpayers are not paying a dime and they would be
paying for $500,000 to who knows. The unknown amount is what needs to
be examined more closely.
Thank you.
THE CHAIR: One thing, in answering one of the questions is, we’re
bonding $10 million. Anything that goes beyond $10 million would have
to then go to another referendum, so in that sense ---
DR. POLANSKY: I think I need to set the record straight. There is no
$500,000 cost to renovate – that’s misinformation. Flat out
misinformation.
There was a plan at some point to reconstruct the crawl space, the
basement area. That plan was a separate plan.
Built into the cost is a construction management fee of $546,000 and
that was handed out at the BOE meeting. There’s an escalation,
contingency fee in there. Every single avenue through the state,
through our architect, are feasible. They’re in there. Moving the
tennis courts, they’re all part of the costs. If we hit rock or
something like that, there is some contingency fee in there, but our
feeling is that I think we’ll be in good shape. Where we’re building
it, we have a pretty good feeling what’s in there.
I think it’s really clear that we not pass along misinformation and
keep the voters informed of, in fact, what the costs are, where
they’re going. There is $500,000 cost. That was a separate plan that
is not part of this project.
THE CHAIR: And, it didn’t include a lot of the things that this
includes.
DR. POLANSKY: It did not. There was a separate high school project
that we decided we will do some minor building modifications, but it
does as Ms. Skarvinko said, free up the cafeteria, free up some
office space and just usurp the existing vo-ag 10,000 sf.
MR. WEICHSEL: Dr. Polansky, one item that has not been answered which
I believe I understood you to say previously, that the state came to
you in effect so the talk about other Towns may ---
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DR. POLANSKY: We are a regional, by state statute, a regional
vocational agriculture center site. The state is divided up into “x”
number of vocational agricultural centers throughout the state.
Southington, not through the foresight of myself but of my
predecessors, became a vo-ag center early on. It is a model program.
It brings from two other towns about 30% of our kids. Our own kids go
there. It’s a one-third and the other 60 some odd percent is all
revenue to the Town. Thank you.
JOE ANGELILLO: I think most of you know me. I am Joe Angelillo. I
live at 475 Meriden Avenue. Land, I think most of you know my
philosophy as far as spending money. I fully approve of this program
because as Dr. Polansky said, it’s a regional school. Our nearest
school that does the same thing is Middletown and Lyman Hall in this
area. It’s like our vocational technical schools that we have. They
draw from the different communities.
Now, if we were to have to expand the high school and not think about
moving the vo-ag center, it would cost us a fortune. As was stated
before, it’s a win-win situation. So, let’s go with it and I fully
approve.
Thank you.
THE CHAIR: I want to add just one thing to what Joe said, too. For a
long time I think many people looked across the street from the high
school and saw that as the future of expansion.
If you’ve driven up there in the last two weeks, that option is gone.
This is the only thing that will deal with the space needs of the
high school for a long period of time. Whatever thoughts that anybody
had that that property across the street was going to be for
expansion, are gone into houses.
Is there anyone else?
MICHELLE ALLAIRE: 228 Lazy Lane. My first question, is there any way
that the official grant could be revoked? The grant we’re getting,
the 95%, is that official? Because I read in the paper that we would
find out tonight about that.
DR. POLANSKY: It would require the state legislature to change the
law. And, the law has not been changed and it survived the magic date
of June 30th, 2003, so we are good for another year at that
percentage rate. As long as we get the paperwork in this fall, we are
eligible for that percentage rate.
MS. ALLAIRE: The next question is, I understand and I heard from this
gentleman, that the revenue would be created from this proposal. Does
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that include the budgets for the teachers, the maintenance of the
facility and everything like that? We would make money on it,
considering all of our budget costs?
THE CHAIR: I think it’s hard to tell. Harvey?
MS. ALLAIRE: Pardon me?
THE CHAIR: I think it’s hard to put an exact figure on that. I don’t
know, Harvey, if you just want to address that in terms of the
budget?
MS. ALLAIRE: I guess in addition to that question is, how would that
affect us as taxpayers? If when we come into our budget process, are
we going to have more teachers, maintenance? Building upkeep. And, is
that going to increase the taxpayer’s burden to get this facility
running and keep it going?
DR. POLANSKY: The revenue goes to the Town, into the Town General
Fund. So, whatever revenue we take in, essentially is an offset.
There are also a tremendous number of what I refer to as cost
avoidance by doing this. We’re going to have to deal with the
parking, we’re going to have to deal with the cafeteria, we’re going
to have to deal with a variety of other issues that will offset this
and take care of those issues.
So, while there may be some operating costs, I believe that the state
grant that we get, coupled with additional revenue, will --- the Town
gets checks from other Towns.
THE CHAIR: One thing is important. First of all, the students that
come from other Towns are tuition students, so therefore, they pay
tuition. The number of students that come as a result of this program
may vary over some time so it’s hard to tell right now what that
number is going to be. But the number is as Harvey said, about two-
thirds.
The second thing is that having the regional center here does mean
that Southington then gets grants from the state on an ongoing basis.
And, in some cases there is equipment grants, some times its
computers and other thing that have a peripheral benefit to. Now
those grants, there’s no set figure that we can go to right now to
say what the grants are. But those grants have been sizeable in the
past. So, in a sense, this also is a grant provider in a lot of ways
and those grants do help out.
Now, in some years, I would imagine that the flow is different than
others. So, for us to answer your question on a yearly basis, it
would be difficult to do that. But over a long period of time, it is
a financially awarding thing.
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There’s some other things, too, that are intangibles as Harvey said.
The vo-ag program has been maintaining the facility, the athletic
fields. I mean, that is an income although it is not an income that
is going to appear in a balance sheet. There are a lot of things that
are kind of intangibles that are parts of these programs. So, I
think, we can’t --- I can’t put a figure on it for taxpayers, but I’m
confident to say that there is a figure that is a benefit.
MS. ALLAIRE: Within the grant, is there a specified amount of
residents that have to be Southington residents versus outside
residents for the tuition basis?
DR. POLANSKY: There’s no. It has historically been 1/3, 1/3, 1/3.
Historically. And, that really depends on --- the program, the local
interest in the program had waned at one point. With the changes in
the program we’re seeing far, far greater interest in our local, our
own kids wanting to be in the program. We have a waiting list now.
So, I estimate that we will continue to serve as our kids expand the
population.
MS. ALLAIRE: So, there is a possibility it could be 150 students from
Southington with no tuition.
DR. POLANSKY: No, it’s a regional program and it’s always been l/3.
The state because of a variety of efforts by the state, they want a
regional program. I’m not talking about a wide change of – a rapid
change of 60 students. Plus or minus ten would be a standard
deviation and that’s always been the case. We’ve always tried to keep
1/3,1/3,1/3.
So that we’re getting at least a 60% revenue stream for the Town.
MS. ALLAIRE: I’m in Human Resources, myself. And, I know that
Southington has been trying to say that we are a Town of Technology
and trying to get these technology parks going and things of that
nature.
I’d like a little bit of education on vocational rehab or the
vocational center in how it’s --- the agricultural center and how it
is going to help our students be prepared for the future for their
employment that’s going to be meaningful employment. And, no
disrespect to anybody who is in the farming industry, florist or
agriculture, but if somebody could just give me a little bit of
information on how it’s going to help them with their future
employment opportunities in a satisfying profession, I would
appreciate that.
THE CHAIR: Marian, we are going to limit you to five minutes. I know
you could go on forever.
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MS. ALLAIRE: It’s for my own personal experience and knowledge and no
disrespect to anybody.
MS. STANNARD: Marian Stannard, Director of the program in
Southington.
First of all is a question I have to answer to parents all the time.
If a young woman or a young man comes in and says I want to take
agriculture, the first thing their parents say is, what are they
going to do for a job.
In Connecticut, the nursery and landscape industry, the floral
industry is a $1 billion industry. It’s our number one employer in
the State of Connecticut in agriculture. Landscaping, floral culture,
nursery, landscape architecture, and so on. Two of our largest agricultural employers in the State of Connecticut
are Pfizer and Bristol Meyers in the animal health industry. We all
know Pfizer are human health products, but a major portion of their
products are animal health products. And, a lot of our students in
animal science continue on in higher education in the animal
research, the animal physiology.
Another area that the students are really very strongly interested in
is in the environmental science. And, in these days with increasing
regulations that all the Towns have and the concerns that we have for
environment, we are encouraging our students to look at some of those
regulatory fields and some of the human health fields that relate to
environmental science.
We all have pets and the retail industry and the veterinary science
industry, there is no limit to the opportunities there. So really,
you look at the different areas of interest that the students have.
In terms of technology, biotechnology, Connecticut is a leader in
animal biotechnology and plant biotechnology. We have a lot of
businesses in the State of Connecticut that are seed industries for
other parts of the country in terms of biotechnology.
And, then equipment technology and engineering related to that also
relates to agriculture.
So, I always like to say to the parents and to the students in 8th
grade, we take a lot of interests that young people have and help
educate them in the careers that relate to that. So, as much as I
would like to make my money full time in farming, sometimes, I know
that’s not the direction that most of my students will go, so I
encourage them to look at a lot of those other related fields.
(Applause)
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MS. ALLAIRE: That was good information. Thank you.
I think that’s it for my questions and I thank all of you. I do want
to make one last point and I came here a little bit after the start
of the meeting but I just want to say that having five public
hearings in one evening is just way too much. I think for all of you
and for the public and it’s just a lot for people to absorb in one
evening. In the future if we can try to – I know you had a tight
schedule, but I think it’s unfair to everyone, including yourselves.
Thank you.
THE CHAIR: Next, please?
HILDA CAPRAL: 104 Beechwood Drive, Southington. I would like to thank
the members of the Board, friends and neighbors of Southington for
allowing me to address this public hearing.
My daughter is a junior and attends the vo-ag program at Southington
High School. This has been a very positive experience as she has
benefited from the program in many ways, as have the other students.
Vo-ag is just not a farming – not farming any more. The
opportunities, careers are endless. Many of us do not realize the
impact of vo-ag on our students and our community.
The most important ones that come to mind, food products that we eat
every day, clothing, and shelter, the homes and the buildings that
keep us out of the weather’s elements. Without -- we all take these
for granted. Without these fields and programs to produce these
goods, we would not be the productive society we are today.
As we proceed on the super information highway, through the age of
technology, we need to expand our program to meet the needs of our
great economy and to continue the knowledge and job skills we need to
keep our environment productive.
I encourage the members of the Board to vote to put this on the
referendum ballot.
Thank you very much.
THE CHAIR: Next, please?
ERICA ANDERSON: I’m one of the out of Towner’s, 124 Hawthorne Avenue
in Waterbury. I recently graduated from UCONN as a University Scholar
and I have to attribute most of my academic success to the vo-ag
program.
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I was given the option by my parents to either go to private school
such as Holy Cross or Sacred Heart, or because I was into horses, to
attend vo-ag here in Southington. And, it was such a unique program
that I opted to go to Southington.
I’ll make this short and sweet. The teachers in the vo-ag program are
phenomenal. I’ve had a resume since I was 15-years old. I learned
about cover letters when I was 15 years old. They encourage you ---
well, actually, you have to have a supervised agriculture experience
program, which is a certain amount of hours per week working in some
type of agriculture field. They keep an eye on you with that. So, in
this day and age of video games and hanging out at the mall, I
learned a lot about working through the vo-ag program.
And, they always saw all of our potential. Everyone in that program.
They’re always concerned about our future. They had people from
college coming to speak with us when we were sophomores and it’s just
a phenomenal program and it would be great if we could match the
phenomenal teachers and students with a phenomenal facility.
So, that’s all I wanted to say. That’s it.
MARIAH RASMUSSEN: 26 MacArthur Drive. I am a graduate of the vo-ag. I
graduated in 1998 and went on to UCONN and I majored in animal
science. Since then, I have studied bio technology and equine
science. I now work at an equine facility in Meriden.
I have to say that the vo-ag was one of the greatest things I did in
high school. It made school interesting. I learned public speaking. I
mean, we learned how to balance a checkbook. Things that you wouldn’t
usually learn in other classes and I just think it’s a great program.
You get one on one attention with the teachers. They know who you
are. They want you to succeed and they’ll do anything to help you
succeed and it helps you also to gain responsibility. And, that is a
great thing to have.
I just think that the facility that they’re looking for is going to
be a great thing to have. And, I think -- that’s all. Thank you.
LORELLE MARINELLI: I am a junior at Southington High School and I am
currently involved in the vo-ag program. When I first came into the
vo-ag program in my freshman year, I realized that I only had four
years until I had to make up some decision on what I would like to do
for my future. Now, with only two years left ahead of me, I can
proudly say that I have a confident idea on some colleges I would
like to attend and the different job opportunities in my interest
area that are out there for me.
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I have learned many skills in the vo-ag and competed and participated
in many events. These events have taught me my dislikes, my likes and
opened up a whole new horizon of jobs in my interest area.
In the classroom, I see many individual classmates with more
interests in other areas of agriculture that the Southington High
School does not offer. I would like to see the Southington vo-ag
program expand with this new addition because I know the positive
effect the program will have on these students and their futures,
just like it had on me.
Thank you.
AMANDA CAPRAL. I’m a junior at Southington High School vo-ag program.
When I first entered the program, I wanted to be an equine
veterinarian. However, the last two years I have experienced
different areas of the program and have broadened my thinking of
other careers in the program. I am also excited to represent Southington High School at the FFA
National Convention in Louisville, KY this fall. Our vo-ag program
has given me hands on experiences in the areas of animal science,
agricultural mechanics and plant science.
This past summer I had the opportunity to do my SAE (supervised
agricultural experience) project of 150 hours at Trails and Tack at
Middlefield. The experience of working in a tack store extended a
wealth of knowledge both in horse tech and retail experience.
The owner of the store also offered me the opportunity to attend a
national trade show to see behind the scenes as a buyer. I would like
to encourage the Board to put expansion of the vo-ag on the ballot
this fall. Improving this program will benefit the entire community.
Thank you.
THE CHAIR: Is there anyone else who would like to speak? Questions
from Council members?
Okay, thank you.
3. Proposed Ordinance appropriating $2,000,000 for acquisition of
land for open space, passive recreation and conservation purposes and
authorizing the issue of bonds and notes in the same amount.
THE CHAIR: John, I don’t think we have a presentation on this one.
MR. WEICHSEL: I don’t know if Bill wanted to make a comment, or two,
maybe.
MR. DE PAOLO: Thanks, John.
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I might say Mr. Chairman and for the audience we had an open space
referendum –
(End of Tape #1, side A) (Beginning of Tape #1, Side B)
-- roughly keeping about 100 homes from being built. We’re pretty
much after the Novick piece, which was the last purchase, pretty much
exhausted on the funds.
We are applying for a state grant on the Novick piece and we hope to
get it, but there’s no guarantee. But at this point we’re looking for
another 2 million. There’s a few other pieces, a few of the parcels
that the open space has been working on.
We know it’s something that we feel the people want to do, so
basically that’s where it all started. It was approved by the Council
unanimously.
THE CHAIR: Comments from the Council?
Comments from the public? Phil?
MR. POMPOSI: Phil Pomposi, 1215 Pleasant Street. As you know, I’m a
full supporter of this acquisition of open space from the very
beginning. And, as a member of the open space committee for some
time, I was pretty active and the only thing I feel sorry about is
that we were not more aggressive in some of these larger pieces.
I think the reason for that, I think everybody knows that was on that
committee, is that we were a little gun shy because of the fact that
we just did not have the funds available. I don’t know if it will get
any better, the way things are in real estate today because land
really is, as you know over the last few years, has appreciated
dramatically and it really put us at a disadvantage.
A couple pieces, the one named tonight, we, unfortunately just missed
out on. But I am for it.
The only thing and I see according to the notes that it’s been taken
care of and that is when this came before our Board, the word
“recreation” was in there and we asked that it be corrected to
“passive recreation” because we wanted to make very clear that this
was going to be used for open space and open space, only. Open space
being a piece of land that’s left as is, open space, and not used for
municipal purposes.
And, I guess this has been changed and I assume the ordinance wording
has been changed. So, other than that, that’s fine.
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THE CHAIR: It should be clear to every one that this is the purchase
of open space not to be used for active type of recreation like ball
fields or anything like that or any other kind of municipal purpose
such as police stations, fire stations, schools, whatever. It would
be for passive recreation. In other words, the most active would be
walking trails or hiking trails, something like that. And, that is
included in the ordinance.
MR. FARO: Robert Faro, 30 Huntington Circle. My only concern is like
Mr. Pomposi mentioned, why it’s only 2 million? I mean, if we had
more and we didn’t spend it, it would still be there. Why did we come
up with only a 2 million figure?
THE CHAIR: If you add all these five together, Bob . . .
MR. FARO: Oh, I understand that. But what I’m saying is, if you don’t
buy the land, you’re not using the money. But you’re in a situation
now where you don’t have any money, so how can you really negotiate
with anybody when you’re broke?
MR. DE PAOLO: If I might, Mr. Chairman, it was a selective decision
to go for 2 million. We picked it last time and it passed. We figured
rather than go 1 million or 3 million, let’s go 2 million again.
If we can do this every year, if we had to, Cheshire for the last
10,11,12 years have had 1 million propositions on their referendums
every year pretty much as a standard thing. It was just an arbitrary
decision. You don’t want to go for too much, you don’t want to go for
too little.
Most of the parcels now, as you notice, for example, Novick was 1.3
million. The Brandenburg property is 1.6 million. Everything now, the
piece we’re looking at is 1.8 million. It’s pretty much going to be
in that ballpark. It’s six in one, half a dozen of the other.
MR. FARO: So, in other words, we’re only talking about one piece of
property.
MR. DE PAOLO: Could be. But if you leverage it, we’ve got four so far
with the 2 million that we had. Sometimes you don’t have to pay for
it all at once.
MR. FARO: Can you really negotiate with anybody if you don’t have any
money? How does that work?
MR. DE PAOLO: It’s difficult.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: If I may, you’re right. It is difficult negotiating
with them because you have to put a stipulation in there that it’s
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over $1 million it has to pass a public referendum and sometimes
sellers are a little gun shy to wait four or five months.
MR. FARO: And, you have to wait for the referendum.
MR. DE PAOLO: I might interject, the next one we take up is the
Brandenburg property. That one has to be approved at a referendum.
The Brandenburg family said they would like to sell to the Town. They
would like to use that piece for open space or for a middle school.
They had a developer waiting to pay them a check at the door. They
decided to go to the Town and wait for the referendum. So, I think we
owe them a high debt of gratitude.
MR. FARO: I guess we do.
Thank you.
MR. RICCIO: I’d just like to make a couple of points if it’s okay
during the public hearing so they could comment if they’d like. And,
that is Bill just made a good point in that there is some option for
old farm families out there, but a lot of them don’t know. So, if you
live next door to a piece of property that you’d like to see
preserved as open space, go to the family before the developer gets
there and direct him to the open space committee.
You know, we’re looking. We’re out there actively seeking properties.
People come to us, why does that land have houses on it? It’s because
nobody in Town informed that property owner that this is available.
We’re actively competing with or in the open market for open space.
So, I expected the podium to be packed tonight with people in favor
of it. I think everybody is in favor of it. It’s just nice to hear
it. So, get out there. We can’t do it all ourselves. We need your
help.
THE CHAIR: Just one more thing, just in the past, the state has been
cooperative in grants. Right now the state is not doing that, but we
assume that the state will get back into the granting of money to
Towns for open space at some point in the future. And, actually,
we’ve used that grant money and the communal grant money also as
leverage in terms of our negotiations with property owners. We are
involved still in negotiations with property owners and again, time
payments, payments over time and other things are strategies that can
be used in trying to seal those deals. But money is certainly the
most important aspect.
MICHELLE ALLAIRE: 228 Lazy Lane. My first question is, with the open
space, now I’m hearing from you that people come forward to you to
say I have land that maybe you’d like to purchase.
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THE CHAIR: It goes both ways. We also make requests.
MS. ALLAIRE: Very good. Because I haven’t really been officially
mapping where we’ve been purchasing open space, but I know over on
Lazy Lane there is a nice piece of property that Carpenter owns that
might be something that he might be interested in talking to you
about.
THE CHAIR: Well, let me just mention one thing. Our prime importance
in this as it began was in dealing with the residential properties.
There is an imbalance in terms of our zoning in that I can’t think of
the figures right now, but we have far --- a great amount of land
that has been developed for residential and much ---
MR. WEICHSEL: Eighty percent.
THE CHAIR: -- and much less for industrial and commercial. And, land
that is zoned industrial is not something that we necessarily have
high on our list for purchase for open space. We see that land as
potential tax generation.
So, I know that you live close to that land and ----
MS. ALLAIRE: It’s beautiful land. A lot of nice deer, bobcat, fox.
Wetlands.
THE CHAIR: I know that. Yes.
But it’s also strategically located in such a way that it does make
it attractive for industrial purposes.
MS. ALLAIRE: Okay. Fair enough.
THE CHAIR: I’m not going to say that at some point in the future that
might not be something that we would look at, but at present we’re
looking to try to get residential land because again, that’s where
the money is spent. Where the tax generation is going to come from is
industrially zoned and commercially zoned land.
MS. ALLAIRE: Okay. Is there some type of, and you’ll have to educate
me once again, a guarantee to the public that this land won’t be
developed in the future?
THE CHAIR: Yes. That’s in the ordinance.
MS. ALLAIRE: Is there a timeframe?
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: It’s two-fold. When we receive state money, the
state requires us to put an easement on the property, which is
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forever. And, then for our own, in this particular case, the bond
ordinance itself by it’s own wording would limit the Town.
MS. ALLAIRE: Okay. I guess the other ---
THE CHAIR: And, forever, too.
MS. ALLAIRE: Excellent.
The other thing, in the decision making for picking pieces of
property, I know you said residential neighborhood and both of you go
out and look and you have people come to you as well, but is there a
strategic plan of like trying to disperse it throughout the
community?
THE CHAIR: Initially, we were looking at grant money and in terms of
grant money, the state was interested in land that might be
contiguous with other green land in other Towns. So, initially, our
focus was in places that would be acceptable to the state. And, that
did kind of keep our focus on the outside.
Right now, the state is not participating in that kind of grant
situation, so I think our target areas have changed somewhat. We’re
certainly looking at bigger property rather than smaller property. I
know sometimes when there is two lots, people would like to approach
that as open space, but in that sense, that’s usually the kind of
property that we don’t go after aggressively. In some cases,
sometimes people might want to almost donate it to the Town. But
anything that is a small lot would be something that we would be less
interested in unless there was a great deal out there.
MR.RICCIO: The committee –- actually the Staff is working on coming
up with a map to show. We have a property that has incredible hiking
trails on it on the east side of Town. On the south side of Town we
have a property with a field and a pond. On the west side of Town we
have a property with a stream going through it, a lot of wetlands and
some potential Indian burial sites over there.
THE CHAIR: Indian. They were burial sites. We’re not going to bury
any Indians.
MR. RICCIO: Native Americans. And, we have Crescent Lake. I mean,
it’s a lake. And, what’s the latest, Bill? The Novick piece.
MR. DE PAOLO: On the north. We have them really all over Town.
MS. ALLAIRE: I think it would be a great selling point for the Town
to get something in the newspaper showing the different properties.
MR. RICCIO: We are working on that.
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MS. ALLAIRE: Okay, great.
I think my last question is about the next thing on the Agenda, but I
know we are not at that point yet, but is this property that we’re
going to be talking about, is it open space?
THE CHAIR: No.
MS. ALLAIRE: Okay, so nothing to do with open space.
THE CHAIR: This one is, again that’s why we’re doing this in a
separate referendum because it’s for municipal purpose. It would be
for a middle school.
MS. ALLAIRE: Thank you for your time.
THE CHAIR: Anyone else on the $2 million for open space?
4. Proposed Ordinance appropriating $1,600,000 for acquisition of the
Brandenburg property on River Street in Southington and authorizing
the issue of bonds and notes in the same amount to finance said
appropriation.
MR. DE PAOLO: Just very briefly, the Brandenburg piece is a piece
that was worked on by the open space and then the land acquisition
committee as a land acquisition piece.
The school department had discussions with our committee and asked us
to look at five sites and their first and most desirable piece was
the piece on River Street, between River Street and Dunham Road,
which was the Brandenburg piece.
We had been looking at that since 1999 as an open space piece. And,
year after year we’re sending letters and letters and these things
take a long time to materialize.
But year after year we would send letters and finally Mrs.
Brandenburg became ill and her nephew took over the property estate
and found all these letters and talked to her and came to the Town
and that’s when they decided they would like to deal with us knowing
that it would be used for a possible middle school.
After negotiations with the Town Attorney and the Town Manager, and
the Open Space Committee, we brought it to the Council. The Council
at that point approved it. It’s a 30-acre piece. Very nice piece of
land for those of you that don’t know it. It’s pretty much all-open.
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One side touches on River Street and the other side on Dunham.
It’s capable of holding about 45 building lots that won’t be on the
market, just a little side effect of this referendum.
And, in talking with the BOE, they decided they would like to pursue
it as their first piece and so the Council unanimously voted to bring
that to referendum.
THE CHAIR: Also, we have another municipal purpose that we’re looking
at part of this land for, and that’s a leaf disposal site, too. So,
in this sense, again this is not open space in the same way as number
3 was. This is for municipal purpose and again, as a possible school
site and also for leaf.
MR. DE PAOLO: I neglected to mention that 23 acres would be used by
the BOE and 7 by the Town.
THE CHAIR: Is there any one else from the Council?
Any questions or comments from the public? Jerry?
JERRY BELANGER: 98 Dawn Lane. I’d like to state my support for the
proposed purchase of the Brandenburg property so the Town can start
planning for construction of a third middle school to be located on
that property.
We have serious overcrowding issues at both DePaolo and JFK Middle
Schools. These issues have been with us now for several years and
there’s no let up in sight. The land the current middle schools
reside on will only allow for very small additions, not enough to
accommodate the number of students attending those schools.
In addition, the current buildings do not allow full implementation
of the middle school curriculum that should have been put in place
years ago. In that model, each middle school grade is made up of
small learning communities and teams. Each learning community is a
network of students, teachers, parents, and other significant adults,
and these teams stay together for more than one year as opposed to
changing from year to year.
Classes are heterogeneously balanced in terms of grade level, gender,
ethnic background and individual needs to insure diversity. Buildings
designed around a junior high school model simply do not allow the
kind of team approach we need to incorporate.
Middle school programming and overcrowding are only two of the many
reasons for going forward with a third middle school. At each
building technology and communication systems need to be updated,
specialized learning areas need to be created, better special
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education resources need to be provided, administrative offices need
to be upgraded and the list goes on.
By building a third middle school, we can relocate students to that
school to allow these much needed renovations. So, the need for a
third middle school is clear but the problem was where to build it.
Several sites in Town were investigated, including both Town owned
and privately owned land. I agree that it was fiscally sensible to
try to use land already owned by the Town, but the only parcel
available that could support this construction was located near Kelly
School. I think everybody agrees that that location was not suitable
for a number of reasons. So, looking elsewhere was a wise choice.
Hopefully, voters will be aware of this.
Therefore, the Brandenburg piece seems to fit the bill nicely. The
location will place the three middle schools at roughly an equal
distance from each other, making busing and transportation much
easier, we gain some more open space, and we prevent additional
residential growth.
As with the vo-ag program, this is another slam-dunk and I urge you
guys to bring it forward.
Thank you.
THE CHAIR: Any one else from the public? MR. DE PAOLO: Mr. Chairman, just one quick comment, we will on the 23
acres, also get reimbursed on this purchase, at I believe, 52% are we
there, somewhere around there? So, 52% of the price of the 23 acres
will be reimbursed to the Town.
MR. BARRY: Mr. Chairman, if I just may be ask Dr. Polansky a quick
question on the need for a third middle school.
THE CHAIR: Mr. D’Andrea is not here. Harvey, you do know we got a
letter.
DR. POLANSKY: I did get a letter. I got the same letter.
THE CHAIR: I’m going to put that into the record just because it
seems to be appropriate. (Attachment 1)
DR. POLANSKY: There are programming issues ---
MR. BARRY: Just real quick, the reason why I think it’s important is,
is there, based on population trends a need for a new middle school
or is it possible that we could do with two middle schools --- I know
it’s in the initial stages of planning on how we are going to build
the facility. But my question is, it just seems like if we have three
middle schools, we’re increasing the cost to the taxpayers by another
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third on the middle school level. Is it based on your trends that you
see in population, could the Town of Southington maybe do with two
high schools? I think there is a necessity to upgrade the facility,
but everyone says a third middle school. Do we need to have a third
middle school?
DR. POLANSKY: In my professional opinion: absolutely.
The Board first looked at this or their research was, let’s put
additions on both JFK and DePaolo. The state provides 15 acres plus 1
acre for every 100 kids. Well, that’s 15 plus 8, 800 kids. That’s
what we are probably going to figure we are going to build for.
Our enrollment at our elementary and our middle schools are exceeding
projections right now. Right now we have over 100 students more than
we had last year on September 1. And, the growth between September 1
and October 1 is pretty – usually pretty dramatic.
Programmatically, Mr. Barry, I think Mr. Belanger really did a
beautiful job of explaining middle schools. We can’t house the
program in our current schools. There are media centers, phys ed,
there are a variety of other team structures that we talked about,
those small learning communities. That can’t happen.
There should be science rooms in each of the team areas. Well, right
now, where are all the science rooms? They’re all in one area. We
need massive renovations of our existing facilities to meet 21st
century standards.
And, the Board looked at a variety of options. To put an additional
addition on JFK and DePaolo impacted programming. We’re not going to
dip below --- I saw the letter. We’re going to stay in the 800 area
no matter what happens. Even years out. I look at our kindergarten
class sizes right now. That’s the bubble that’s coming through. And,
we know that our kindergarten classes are much larger than our
graduating senior class. So, that’s going to continue.
I think the Board has always focused on doing what’s right for kids.
And, what’s right for kids is not cramming all of those hormones in
one little place. I think there are – kids this age need a variety of
opportunities because from ages 11 to 14 is when they’re changing
most. And, we need to connect them to small learning communities so
they feel part of it. And, we don’t disconnect.
What we’ve learned about disconnected kids is they get in trouble. We
want to make sure that we keep our kids connected. And, right the way
our buildings are housed, it can’t just happen.
MR. BARRY: Very good, I appreciate that. One other comment and I’m
not an expert on education. I do think the BOE is doing their best in
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trying to accommodate the overcrowding of a lot of the schools.
Is the School Board and your Administration looking at maybe ways to
save the taxpayers money in the sense of maybe taking the 9th grade
out of the high school and just build a school for 9th graders which
would then alleviate the overcrowding at the high school and then
keep the middle schools, maybe take the 6th and put it in the
elementary. I mean, I don’t know if any of this stuff works. I’m not
an expert. I just want maybe to enlighten us if the Board has looked
at these options.
DR. POLANSKY: I think the Board is committed to a K-5, 6-8, 9-12
structure. I think middle schools tend to be either 6,7,8 or 5,6,7,8.
There are one or two junior high schools. Amity has a junior school
and I’m not sure I want to duplicate what’s going on there.
I think our issue focuses on --- a decision was made early on to have
one high school and we will continue to have one high school. With
the additional space that we’re looking at, we want to slow that
building down and I think Ms. McGrath and her team have a way to
really start looking at how that building, the pace of that building,
the high school building.
But I think the Board has clearly articulated their commitment to
that middle school structure. You also want to decrease transitions
for children. Kids want to have some type of ownership that they’re
in a building two, three years. Three years is even tight.
What we’ve known about grade 9 building and I think Fairfield tried
it, it failed. It’s transitory. Kids don’t feel they are a part of
that community. They disconnect. So, we felt that this was the best
way to meet the needs of our young adolescents.
MR. BARRY: Okay, thank you.
THE CHAIR: I think it’s over the last 16 years or so, when we put the
addition – the most recent addition on to the high school, that was
the result of a commitment by the Board to this grading structure. It
makes for much better planning if that commitment is held to and we
don’t change it.
DR. POLANSKY: And, I think the Board is very committed to that. I
think we go back to the idea about a comprehensive high school.
Southington High School in my mind is the best high school in the
state in terms of variety of programs, in terms of commitment of
staff, commitment of community and commitment of our students.
Is it a big community? Yes. Our high school is larger than --- I
think we looked it up, larger than 50 districts in the state or 40
districts in the state. But it is being managed with care and it’s
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being managed with concern. Our concern now is middle school.
We’ve had tremendous, tremendous program improvement in our middle
schools, which will continue. We just need to get facilities that
will meet the needs of our students.
ANGELINA SANTA MARIA: 250 Summer Street.
Mr. Barry, I just wanted to answer your question as a parent. I have
three children in three different schools here in Southington:
Plantsville School, JFK and Southington High School.
In the last six years, I’m seeing that the schools are bursting at
the seams, so my answer to you is yes, we need to have another middle
school.
THE CHAIR: One thing, let me make it clear that this is a proposal to
purchase the land for a school. The decision as to what the land is
going to be used for will be made in the future and if there is to be
a middle school that will also be another referendum that will be
made.
One of the things in terms of this and the reason I bring it out is
the purchase of this land, first of all as Bill said, is a good deal.
We don’t have many – we haven’t had many good deals come down the
pike dealing with real estate.
Secondly, it’s one that does allow for, not matter it is used for,
and I’m sure that the Board is going to look at middle school first,
but no matter it is used for, it does allow for flexibility in terms
of construction of sites for a middle school.
And, also as John wants to see, the 7 acres for leaf collection, is
not a minor issue. The leaf collection in this Town is becoming more
and more something we do have to provide municipal land for.
So, this referendum is for the purchase of land at a very good price,
a very good deal, to allow for flexibility in several different
areas.
DR. POLANSKY: And, as Mr. DePaolo said, once we decide to build a
school, that land then becomes reimbursable as part of the whole
project.
I would be negligent if I didn’t thank the cooperation, the
commitment of the Council. I think you acknowledged the issues that
we’re dealing with. We’ve been studying this now for two years. I
remember sitting in this room with a bunch of maps and we were
looking at a variety of properties. We looked at every single
property that was in excess of 20 acres and I really appreciate the
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work that the Council has done to keep progress on the front burners
and not the back burners.
Thank you.
MS. BAKER: One more question, Dr. Polansky. Is there a time
constraint on that reimbursement of the 52%. Seven years?
DR. POLANSKY: I don’t believe there is. No matter what the source is,
it becomes eligible as part of the project, no matter when that
project is.
The only thing that will change, you need to know is, there’s a rapid
deterioration of the percentage of reimbursement. We started at 56%
when I got here 4 short years ago. Now we’re at about 52% now. So,
that’s the only change.
THE CHAIR: It was 62% when I got here. So . . .
MS. BAKER: One more quick question in regards to the storage of the
leaves. You may have told us but has the line been delineated, can we
start using the 7 acres right away, after purchase?
Do we have the layout plan? Can we use the 7 acres?
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: The delineation itself would be required as part of
this Council’s decision. As long as the BOE based upon their plans,
have enough land, then it would be your delineation as to the line.
THE CHAIR: I don’t think we have a line, yet.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: That could be done long before the school is built,
obviously.
THE CHAIR: Any other comments on number 4?
5. Proposed Ordinance increasing the appropriation and borrowing
authorization for the Central Fire Station Addition Project to
$1,645,000.
KEVIN DALY: Mr. Chairman, members of the Council, I’m Kevin Daly, 206
Rockwood Drive and I’m Chairman of the Board of Fire Commissioners
and I’m here representing our building committee.
We’re requesting $1,645,000 to build an addition to the existing fire
headquarters located on North Main Street with a footprint of
approximately 7500 sf that will have three stories on the rear and
one story in the front and it will address the issues that were
created over the past several years by the size of the fire apparatus
that we have. It’s cracking the floors in the existing fire station.
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Included for that $1,645,000 will also be $250,000 for renovations of
the existing building so that we can address some concerns we have
with respect to space for our training division and for our fire
inspection bureau.
In an effort to be brief tonight, I’ll leave it to questions at this
point.
THE CHAIR: Questions from the Council? You were here a couple of
weeks ago, so I think we have exhausted ourselves.
MR. DALY: I have nothing new to say other than we did go live on
centralized dispatch today, too. That’s another positive note for us.
THE CHAIR: Very good. Questions or comments from the public?
Kevin, I guess we’re letting you off very easy.
Are there any other general questions or comments dealing with all of
the referendum issues?
MR. DE PAOLO: Mr. Chairman, just before we wrap it up, I do want to
make it for the record and for the press and for the public.
Everything we talked about tonight, not the Misery Brook By Pass
Interceptor, but everything we talked about tonight, including
downtown Renaissance which isn’t on this, but which we have decided
to do, all of these items total a little over $6 million and it will
end up costing about in the first year about one quarter of a mil to
the taxpayer. And, over the course of the bonding, it will go down to
one tenth of a mil.
There’s no good time to spend money, but this is one of the better
times. The interest rate is going to average about 4.5% and that’s at
a 30-year low. These are all good projects and it’s not going to cost
an awful lot of money to do them, so I think it behooves us to do
them now when the price of bonding is so low.
THE CHAIR: I agree with Bill and just one thing, too, is it does look
like a large plate that’s filled with a lot of things that are going
to cost money, but these are all good projects and things that have
real good logical necessity for them.
Second thing too, I hope that people that look at this, the
referendum, do not see this as pitting one project against another.
Each of these projects has great benefit for the Town and actually,
if you really look at them, 2 through 5, the open space, et cetera,
they kind of work together with one another. Each of these is going
to make Southington a better community. In doing that in different
ways, and all of them add to those things.
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They’re also all necessary. The timing, even though the economy may
not appear to be well, these are bonded over long periods of time, so
in terms of that kind of spending, it is something that is going to
transcend several economic periods, good and bad. And, the problem is
if we don’t do these now, we will be faced with doing them sometime
in the future. And, as we all know, prices do go up and rarely have
they ever gone done for any of these things. There’ll be some lost
opportunities like in the vo-ag, the Brandenburg property and even in
terms of open space, there’ll be lost opportunities if we were not to
go after these.
Again, they do deal with specific needs that are necessary for the
Town. So, I hope that voters do not pit one project against another
and I hope there will be support for all of these.
MS. TRIANO: I want to just echo something that --- those things that
you’re saying. And, also just encourage the public to understand that
we are now dealing with the next generation. We are providing for our
children and our grandchildren an opportunity to experience
Southington in a way that we’ve come to learn and love Southington.
And, so I would hope that everyone in Southington would understand.
I’m so glad that Bill in his thorough way was able to break that down
in terms of a tenth of a mil for our taxpayers who we are all
concerned for. I would hope that the public would see this, not only in terms of
their wallet, but in terms of their children and the future of our
children. Certainly, many of these things have a direct bearing on
our kids. But of course, the need for our fire station and the need
for open space affect all of us. And, I wanted to thank every one who
has come forward this evening and hopefully, we’ll see all of these
passed together.
THE CHAIR: All right. I’ll end the public and we’re going to take
about a five-minute recess.
(Whereupon, the public hearing session was adjourned at 8:25 o’clock,
p.m.)
MINUTES OF THE TOWN COUNCIL MEETING OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHINGTON
September 8, 2003
Regular Meeting
A Town Council Meeting of the Town of Southington was held on Monday,
September 8, 2003. Chairman Edward M. Malczyk called the Regular
Meeting to order at 8:30 pm.
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The following Councilpersons were present, viz:
John Barry Victoria Triano Arthur Secondo William DePaolo Mary Baker Philip Landino Michael Riccio Edward Malczyk
Ex-Officio Members present were as follows, viz:
John Weichsel, Town Manager Mark Sciota, Town Attorney Anthony Tranquillo, Town Engineer
Absent:
James Verderame
There were approximately 30 other persons in attendance.
The Pledge of Allegiance to the American Flag was recited by everyone
in attendance.
A Prayer was recited by Councilperson William DePaolo.
EDWARD MALCYK, Chairman, presiding:
II. Minutes
Mr. Barry made a motion to approve the Minutes as presented that was
seconded by Ms. Triano.
(Motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.)
III. Councilmanic Communications
THE CHAIR: Let me just get a few out of the way. We did get a
communication from Southington Printing Company about the placement
of the Center Place sign. (Attachment 2)
MR. WEICHSEL: We have basically agreed to do what has been requested.
It’s a one way sign at Center and Center Place and the street name
sign.
THE CHAIR: And, we are invited to the 12th Annual Drug Free
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Southington Rally on the Town Green on October 21st, Tuesday, at 6:00
pm. The rally will be held to commemorate the red ribbon week for all
of us. (Attachment 3)
MS. TRIANO: Yes, if you can, please come. Make sure I see you so you
can be recognized from the platform.
THE CHAIR: And, John, we did get a notification that Jim is up for
the -- or he has received the Certificate of Achievement Plaque. It
hasn’t been shipped, yet, I guess. (Attachment 4)
MR. WEICHSEL: Yes, the plaque is not here. Usually we delay of
discussion of it until he actually comes.
THE CHAIR: There was a letter that I got and I think everyone got
from Jim Flood on teacher’s salaries. And, requesting that we not
compare with other districts. So, I’ll put that in, too. (Attachment
5)
The Strong School PTO President, send a letter to Harvey and the
Board of Education, the Permanent Building Committee, Town Council,
Mark Sciota and the Principal and Staff of Strong School. Just saying
very nice things about the near completion of Strong School. And, we
appreciate that letter, too. I’ll put that in. And, that’s all I
have. (Attachment 6)
Anyone else?
MS. TRIANO: Mr. Chairman, if I might, on behalf of the Southington
United Way, I want to invite everyone here and specifically the Town
Council. On September 11th, once again, the United Way will be
hosting a memorial service. We’ll be stepping off in a solemn
procession at 8:30 am from the Popular Restaurant Parking Lot area.
And, proceeding down Center Street.
The firefighters and the police officers will be honor guards and we
have the Governor’s Foot Guard coming in as an honor guard. It will
be a solemn procession and all the churches in Southington will be
ringing their church bells at 8:46. And, so certainly we would invite
all the members of the Council, John and Mark, of course, Leslie,
anybody else who would like to proceed with us.
As I said, we will step off from the Popular Parking Lot at 8:30 on
to Center Street. It won’t be a long memorial. It’ll probably only
last about a half hour. But it will mark the day.
THE CHAIR: Thank you. Anyone else? Mike?
MR. RICCIO: I just want to say that a day or two before school
started I took a walk through both of the schools. And, I was
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absolutely amazed at the progress that had taken place since mid to
late winter.
Just a thank you to initially the parents who came out and spoke
about these projects well over a year ago and thanks to the schools
that made it through tough times and a big thank you to the
contractor that came on board and got us to where we are today.
I kind of went through on my own and just looked around and was
really pleased by what I saw.
THE CHAIR: This would be a time, Mark, just a little update. I know
Strong School is just punch list things that have to be done.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Actually, Strong School did receive its full CO. It
has a – in lieu of site plan compliance, they have a waiver. That’s
the outside from the PZC side of it. But the structure itself is
fully CO’d. There’s some punch list items that are relatively minor.
The school, as Mike said, is beautiful. Jeff and his committee did a
nice job and I also wish to thank the contractor and also from the
government side, I really wish to thank the building department and
especially the fire department for working with us and actually
getting the thing open.
On the Hatton side of it, as you know, Section A & B are CO’d. That
is currently occupied with the children. The old section of Hatton,
which you can see from the road, obviously is the one that is still
under construction. That still looks like it is going to be available
to the students the end of November.
THE CHAIR: It was sheetrocked. Also, they are tiling the floor now,
too. So, it does appear, I’m not going to put any dates here, either,
Harvey, but it does appear that the schedule is something that they
can adhere to.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Actually, I should say that almost every schedule
they’ve given us, they have adhered to.
THE CHAIR: The Staff is anticipating movement into that area at some
point that will be convenient to them, actually.
MR.RICCIO: You touched on the other thing. The building committee,
both current and past members of the building committee, put a lot of
their time into this and need to be commended, as well.
I just have one quick thing. I’ve been working on the fountain
project that I brought to the Council a while ago. And, I have kind
of a public appeal here. We’re trying to get --- there were fixtures
on that fountain that were, we can’t even figure out what they are.
This is the only picture I have. And, first we thought they were lion
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heads and then dragons and now they look like fishes.
MS. TRIANO and THE CHAIR: I think they were fishes.
MR. RICCIO: If anyone has a better picture.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Where is Nick D’Emanuele when you need him?
MR. RICCIO: Or if anyone actually has one of them that they’d like to
return.
THE CHAIR: Joe do you know what fixtures were on the fountain?
MR. RICCIO: I’ll get in touch with Joe.
FROM THE AUDIENCE: You know who got the fixtures? Dave Mongillo. He
moved them and he got the fixtures.
MS. TRIANO: There you go!
(Undertone comments)
(Laughter)
MR. RICCIO: Well, I am going to call my friend Dave and if I can, we
have found we can get them replicated.
Thank you.
(Undertone comments)
THE CHAIR: Anyone else? No one else for Councilmanic Communications?
Okay, John, your report, please?
IV. Town Manager's Report and Communications
A. Report by Superintendent DeGioia on grease traps
MR. WEICHSEL: John DeGioia will handle this for us.
JOHN DE GIOIA: I understand at the last Council meeting when I was on
vacation there were some questions raised about the Town’s grease
trap ordinances and sewer ordinances.
I did send a latter to the Town Manager and to all members of the
Council to do my best to explain what our procedures are and the fact
there was some misinformation in the --- going around about what the
Town is and isn’t doing to businesses.
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I won’t go over the whole letter because I know it was pretty
lengthy. I just want to hit a couple of bullets.
The reason that we are enforcing the grease interceptor regulations
is because of frequent backups of raw sewage into the environment and
into basements of homeowners and customers, both business and
residential. These are caused by grease blockages.
Last month, the Town Council made a change to the ordinances. That
change was not a grease trap ordinance or any changes to the
ordinance or use of the sewers. It was exclusively --- it was fifteen
words, actually. The words were: in accordance with the rules and
regulations established by the superintendent of Water Pollution
Control.
It was an “i” that the Town Attorney felt needed to be dotted. But
that’s all. The Council did not pass and I did not request any change
to the 1979 sewer use ordinance that we have now.
The grease interceptor program has been in effect since 1994. It
involves only new businesses. Businesses who apply to the health
department for a health permit to open. It is not retroactive and has
never been retroactive and we have no intent to make it retroactive.
If an existing business plugs our sanitary, we will pursue that
problem individually. But as far as requiring businesses to install
interceptors, existing businesses that is not our policy. We have not
done and we have no intention to do that.
The thousand-gallon grease interceptor is a standard interceptor.
Massachusetts uses it. They have state regulations. The State of
Connecticut is in the process of passing state regulations for the
same thing. And, they’re also minimum size is a thousand gallon
interceptor, which is the sort that is in the parking lot in front of
or behind the business.
The small manually cleaned units that fit under a sink, the building
department has been allowing them for years, is not acceptable. Both
the state, the federal government and we, the Town, have found that
they’re not always cleaned regularly. There’s no automatic system and
we have these blockages with these grease traps in existence right
now. All buildings have these grease traps and we still have lots of
blockages. So, we’re going a step further to go to the larger
interceptors to eliminate this problem.
Costs. I spoke to a plumber who installs these. Approximately $1500
to $2000 to install an in ground, under the best-case scenario. This
is if there’s room in your parking lot and the plumbing is easy to
change, it can run around that price. If the costs get too high, we
do have an approved alternative. It doesn’t work as well, but it’s
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for case-by-case situation where the costs would be prohibitive. We
are not, we never have asked, the papers might have said, $18,000 to
$22,000 to install a grease interceptor. That’s not what we’re trying
to do at all. We’re just trying to keep the sewer lines clear of
grease at a reasonable cost to the business and that’s why we’re only
involving new businesses, people who are investing money right up
front, they’re putting money into rechanging the buildings and
changing their plumbing and getting all kinds of permits and stuff
and this is just an additional expense for a new business.
The Town follows state guidelines regarding the classification of
food establishments. Class I and II establishments don’t need an
interceptor. Class III and IV establishments do. Class III and IV do
cooking, wash pots and pans and the classification itself is given to
an establishment when they apply to the health department for a
permit to serve food. It’s not something that my department or any
other department in the Town has anything to do with. We just see
that as a III or IV and then we require grease control of some sort.
I feel the Town has been very sensitive to small businesses. Through
the years, we have often granted a business time to get some money up
before they install the grease trap. They generally agreed to 60 days
or 90 days. And, almost exclusively have done so. Have hooked up in
the right amount of time. A good example, Talk of the Village Coffee Shoppe in the Center of
Plantsville. They were a small type II establishment. They just got
bought over by Becca Florian. And, she and I have been going back and
forth. There’s no way they can put in an external grease trap there.
You should be familiar with the spot. There’s no land behind and the
road is right in front. They sent us the required information as far
as explaining the expense and we approved an alternative and they are
in the process of installing the alternative as we speak. And, I
think you’ll find she is very happy with the way the Town and her
business have cooperated back and forth. I certainly am.
Basically, that’s it. I can answer any questions. I’ll also stick
around in case the public has any questions during the public
session.
THE CHAIR: Questions from the Council?
MR. BARRY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. John, it’s a case-by-case basis
when a company feels maybe they can’t do it, what the regulations say
right now. So, when they go through the process, do they appeal to
the health department or do they appeal to you? Where is the line of
command and how does a small businessperson know where to go to try
to get some relief?
MR. DE GIOIA: Very good question.
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I work in conjunction with the engineering department and the health
department. Anybody who has a problem will appeal to the three
departments. The three of us will meet, discuss the situations and if
we have any questions, we’ll bring the business owner in and that’s
how the decisions are made. They know when they apply to the health
department, the health department tells them right off the bat you’re
a Class III or IV establishment and you’re going to need a grease
interceptor. So, they know to go back to health. They can go to
heath, to myself or to Tony and the three of us get together and
decide on a case-by-case basis what we’re going to do.
MR. BARRY: So, the small business owner only has to go to one of
those three departments.
MR. DE GIOIA: Certainly. We’re in contact with each other regularly
with regard to the grease interceptors.
MR. BARRY: Okay, thank you.
MR. SECONDO: John, you say there’s some misrepresentation, whose
fault is that?
MR. DE GIOIA: I’d love to know.
MR. SECONDO: I’m asking you, what do you think?
MR. DE GIOIA: I wasn’t here. I came home.
MR. SECONDO: Well, it wasn’t done because you weren’t here. I just
wanted you to know that the press had to pick up that information
somewhere about an $18,000 cost.
MR. DE GIOIA: Exactly.
MR. SECONDO: There was a thousand gallon requirement for a grease
trap.
MR. DE GIOIA: It wasn’t from me.
MR. SECONDO: Some restaurants were not contacted. You contact them at
random or do you go down the official order – how many restaurants
are there in Southington?
MR. DE GIOIA: Oh, I have no idea. I only contact – what happens, the
process is a person or a company will apply for a permit to serve
food in a new restaurant. Once that application comes in, the
Director of Health will fax both Tony and myself a copy of that
application. So the three of us are on board right off the bat when
there’s a new restaurant coming in. That’s the procedure we use.
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MR. SECONDO: I think what happened, you’re right about that, that was
an addition, just dotting the “I’s” in an ordinance that was already
there that we did back in –
MR. DE GIOIA: 1979.
MR. SECONDO: No, I’m talking about the more recent one.
MR. DE GIOIA: Oh, yes. Last month.
MR. SECONDO: What I think happened here John is just that once again
it’s just a lack of communication or a lack of the Town’s
responsibility. The Town has a responsibility to these restaurant
owners. They’re not all troublemakers or trying to skirt the issue.
I think what happens is that --- whether we dotted the “i” several
months ago or maybe we’re trying to enforce something that was
required in ’94 that a lot of them are changing hands and maybe they
just don’t know what the regulations are or understand what they are.
Now, correct me if I’m wrong here. I want to ask you a question. You
mentioned Liberty Deli in your letter. What would happen if he was
bought out? What would the new owner have to do? Would someone gauge
how much grease he’s putting in or ---
MR. DE GIOIA: No, it would be based on the health department
classification of the establishment.
MR. SECONDO: So, if the health department said he’s a certain class,
you would --- not always, there’s a thousand gallon requirement if
he’s in that certain class.
MR. DE GIOIA: Correct.
MR. SECONDO: A thousand gallon.
MR. DE GIOIA: Correct.
MR. WEICHSEL: Then you have heard that if there’s a hardship, the
administration is willing to discuss the alternative system.
MR. SECONDO: John, most thousand-gallon requirement establishments
are places like Aqua Turf?
MR. DE GIOIA: No, they are much larger than that. A thousand is the
minimum. A thousand is the minimum.
MR. SECONDO: Give me an example then.
MR. DE GIOIA: Of a thousand gallon?
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MR. SECONDO: Anthony Jack’s?
MR. DE GIOIA: Yes that would be a thousand gallons.
MR. SECONDO: LaPiazza?
MR. DE GIOIA: Yes, a thousand yes. Now remember, I don’t size them
up, Tony sizes them.
MR. SECONDO: Who?
MR. DE GIOIA: Tony. That’s an engineering decision as to what size is
and what the configuration is. That’s why the three of us work
together.
MR. TRANQUILLO: The sizing is based on a thousand gallon minimum. But
if you have more than a thousand gallon 24-hour average flow, it has
to be sized larger.
Aqua Turf might have a 4,000 or 5,000 gallon per day flow so theirs
would have to be much larger. But the thousand is the minimum by
federal and state regulations and requirements.
MR. SECONDO: A thousand?
MR. TRANQUILLO: Yes.
MR. SECONDO: That’s coming, it’s not law, yet.
MR. TRANQUILLO: It’s not the absolute law, but it’s been on the books
and the recommendations for six or seven years.
MR. SECONDO: Well, my point is that it’s equitable to everybody. That
some aren’t skipped over. That those that don’t have a big need for a
grease trap, don’t have to put it in.
MR. DE GIOIA: Well, the need is by the classification. Absolutely. MR. SECONDO: That was the whole point of the issue anyways, was to
have you come and explain it.
MR. DE GIOIA: Correct. Now, you sort of inferred that we’re sort of
or we have a problem with the businesses in Town. This is how many
applications we’ve gone through since 1994 (indicating) and virtually
every one has gone through without a problem. I think you’ll find
that most restaurant owners adhered. We were clear to them, had no
problem with doing it. We have a very good relationship with the
restaurants. There are very few that have resisted.
MR. SECONDO: I’m sure, John. I’m sure. But I’m sure in the real world
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you understand a lot of restaurants are reluctant to complain, are
reluctant to contact any of us up here. I mean there are those who
comply because they’re afraid they have no choice. You know that.
MR. DE GIOIA: That may be, but there are also those who comply
because they realize that they would be responsible for any raw
sewage back ups that they create into people’s basements.
MR. SECONDO: Oh, certainly. I’ve read enough on the Internet about
the grease. It’s a big problem. Nationwide.
MR. DE GIOIA: Absolutely.
MR. SECONDO: As a matter of fact, there’s a slogan for it and I said
at the last meeting. There’s no doubt about it. I just want to make
sure every little restaurant owner has an opportunity to work with
you and have the opportunity ---
MR. DE GIOIA: They most certainly do. It’s not just myself. As I say,
it’s myself, Chuck and Tony. Any time there’s a question, the three
of us get together and we go over the situation and we decide whether
or not the situation deems an alternative.
THE CHAIR: Any one else, questions?
MR. RICCIO: Mr. Chairman, I haven’t heard any major complaints from
the system that we have going now and I’d rather see them lean a
little bit more on the side of caution with a little bit bigger tank
than have sewer repairs like the $1,750,000 because we get grease
blockages. I know that particular problem wasn’t caused by a grease
blockage, but if the State is recommending 1000 gallons, you can have
a person that starts a restaurant that says I’m just going to steam
cheeseburgers and before you know it, he becomes successful and he’s
cooking all kinds of things. Well, you don’t want to nab him --- nab
him is the wrong word. You don’t want to get him at that point and
say, okay now you’re getting too big.
When the restaurant changes hand, if our departments have an
ordinance that states that, you build it into the cost of starting
your new business, like you would your other costs. I think it’s
perfect to go and do that type of thing.
And, I just have one question. Can we or do we encourage the use of
microbial cleaners, floor cleaners, hand cleaners, dish cleaners that
would enhance your system?
MR. DE GIOIA: They wouldn’t enhance my system. The microbial
cleaners, especially the ones that eat grease, basically do so for a
short period of time. And, then the grease will coagulate further
down the system and create a problem for us. So, no, we don’t
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recommend those.
MR. TRANQUILLO: May I make a comment? I’m not sure John has really
highlighted to the Council some of the spectacular back ups that
we’ve had due to grease. And, they are spectacular, believe me,
because when that grease plugs up the line, John sometimes cannot go
out there and open it up in ten minutes. Sometimes it takes days to
open that blockage. Meanwhile, the sewage is bleeding out on to the
ground, into basements and the restaurants involved get shut down.
That could be for a day or it could be for a week.
Then they are liable for the cost of the clean up and the manpower.
This is not a frivolous situation. Very serious. And, even the
restaurants themselves in many cases don’t understand what the
ramifications are if they do have a blockage.
THE CHAIR: One of the things that happened in this process is we did
have a public hearing and no one appeared from the restaurant
community at all.
MR. DE GIOIA: No, because I was here.
THE CHAIR: So, we did kind of go quickly about it and that created a
problem for us, I guess, in terms of other questions that they might
have had. We certainly can’t come up with questions for all of these
things. We feed on what the public says. So, in that public hearing
when nobody had any questions, I guess the assumption was that this
was something that nobody had questions about it. I think it’s just a
civics lesson for every group when there is something that does have
an effect on your area and business, or whatever, that is important
for you to come to the public hearings and express yourself so that
we can deal with some of the other problems that may come up.
MS. TRIANO: I just wanted to ask a question. John, I have a question.
I understand this is for businesses and for restaurants, but new
construction of halls or some place that would have a kitchen in
them, do they go through a certain assessment in this thing or are
they required to have the thousand-gallon tank? MR. DE GIOIA: They’re included. Yes. It’s not restaurants, it’s food
service establishments.
MS. TRIANO: What about churches or fraternity halls, if somebody, you
know ---
MR. DE GIOIA: If a church has empty kitchens that is just used on
weekends, occasionally, I would think not. I haven’t come across that
situation, yet.
MS. TRIANO: I haven’t either.
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MR. DE GIOIA: If on the other hand, the church has a regular 7-day
production of food for the poor, etc, etc., then very well, they
might.
MS. TRIANO: I see. Okay, thank you.
MR. SECONDO: Mr. Chairman, you mentioned about the public hearings
and people should come up and the restaurant owners didn’t. You have
to admit, all we do is run a legal notice. And, something that is
really important to these restaurant owners – and making money in the
restaurant business is very, very difficult if you don’t sell liquor.
There’s no reason why we can’t contact them. We’ve got to just do a
better job of public relations and marketing.
What would it hurt to send letters to the restaurant owners and
telling them about the public hearing and giving them an opportunity
to come here?
Now, I read enough on the Internet and I have enough information
about the grease, John. No one is going to argue with you on that.
The issue on Queen Street, Tony, you’re right. But there are little
guys out there that are cooking on a little tiny grill you could put
in the trunk of your car that --- they’re the ones who are concerned.
And, if its misinformation, that’s what you have to kind of
understand. It’s not like them against you. Do you know what I mean?
I’m sorry you had to be away and then come back and hear all of this,
but ---
MR. DE GIOIA: So, was I.
MR. SECONDO: Yes, I can see that from your letter. I’m surprised it
wasn’t 4 pages. Obviously, there was a lot more you wanted to say.
MR. DE GIOIA: There was.
MR. SECONDO: But anyway getting back to these public hearings
especially when you only have a public hearing on one issue that
doesn’t seem that important, I think it would be advantageous to us
to notify those people that are paying a permit in Town that there is
a possible change, whether it be minor or major, especially when it
affects their living.
THE CHAIR: We do that with stores and perhaps we should consider that.
MR. WEICHSEL: We do that. The health department indicates that to
them when they come in for their license.
MR. SECONDO: Yes, but they all don’t come in prior to the public
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hearing.
MR. WEICHSEL: I’m talking about when they get the license.
THE CHAIR: I know that there are some, why don’t we save time, if
there is any questions of John from owners?
MR. DE PAOLO: John, before you sit down, I don’t think we’re on
public communications, are we, yet?
THE CHAIR: The only thing is John said he would make himself
available for questions.
MR. DE PAOLO: Before the gentleman, I just wanted to because Chuck
Motes is here and I wanted to ask him, too. The thousand gallon
grease trap size, it could be 100 or it could be 500 or it could be
1000, but if this restaurant owner is negligent, it’s still going to
get into the system.
So, making it larger really doesn’t solve the problem. It just delays
it a little bit.
MR. DE GIOIA: It makes it easier to document that it’s been cleaned
because a thousand gallon has got to be pumped out.
MR. DE PAOLO: Well, that’s my next point. Are there any monitoring or
any inspections of grease traps? I don’t know the answer to that
question and that’s why I am asking. How do we know if he’s --- the
only time we know is when he has a problem, right?
Should there be or could be there or is it just too volumous a chore?
MR. MOTES: Mr. Chairman, there is no monitoring program at this point
for in ground grease traps. The thousand gallons is basically a
matter of being able to handle that amount of volume of water coming
through within a certain period of time. If you don’t provide the
volume of storage, you don’t still the water to such an extent that
the grease will rise or the oil will rise to the top.
The problems with small grease traps is that they are so small that
there’s not enough residential time inside the device itself for that
stuff to separate from the water. It just slides through. So that
although a person may, well, I’ll collect 4 oz or 8 oz of grease or
oil during the course of one day, that’s true. He’s collected that 4
oz. But what you’re not finding out is all of the other amount that
actually slide through that trap and went into the pipes.
No, there is no monitoring program. If you so desire that there
should be a monitoring program, one could be designed, but you’d have
to pay for it.
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MR. DE PAOLO: Well, I know you go, for example, to restaurants every
three months or four months, I guess, quarterly?
MR. MONTES: It depends again, sir, on the type of facility that it is
and the potential risk to the public health caused by that type of
facility and the type of food that it works with.
The Class I and II facilities are generally not hazardous types of
foods or potentially hazardous types of food. It does not involve
heat treatment of the food, i.e., cooking to the point that you are
removing materials from the food to prepare it for consumption.
The Types III and IV facilities, involve a heat treatment of the food
in that you are actually cooking it and you’re rendering the food. So
that you are collecting the oils and greases and fats separately from
the food before it’s served.
MR. DE PAOLO: I guess, Chuck, my question is: When you go to do these
restaurant inspections, can you at that time inspect the grease trap?
Is that too much work? I mean, I don’t know. Is it a lot of work?
MR. MOTES: It’s an additional amount of work and it really doesn’t
prove much to us because within a week or so of a tank being pumped,
it’s going to still be full and there will be a certain amount of
grease on the top. It takes, it’s a dirty business. And, a
sanitarian, going into a restaurant, I would not want a sanitarian
going into the grease trap to inspect it and then go and inspect the
restaurant. It’s not a sanitary type of process.
MR. DE PAOLO: Okay.
THE CHAIR: Is there a need, though, for that? Do you feel that we’ve
had types of experiences that would require a need for that type of
program?
MR. MOTES: Generally speaking, with a properly installed and
maintained grease trap, you won’t have a problem. If the property
owner, the business owner, does not maintain his/her grease trap, he
finds out to his everlasting embarrassment. And, then he is responsible for the clean up afterwards. It plugs on
his property and it’s his responsibility. With the ownership goes
some responsibility for maintenance.
MR. SECONDO: Mr. Chairman, I just want to add or follow up on Mr.
Motes’ comments here that most communities that hire, even a part
time district employee to check grease traps or pretreatment grease
trap inspector, average $29,000/year in salary. Just to inspect
grease traps.
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MS. TRIANO: Chuck, concerning this, I understand your reluctance to
have your sanitarians go in and inspect grease tarps. But, would it
be possible to ask the restaurantor to provide proof that it’s been
cleaned? Do they do that themselves, or do they hire a concern to
clean the grease trap?
MR. MOTES: To clean a grease trap, you would hire a concern to
actually pump the material out because that material can be
recovered. It can go to a rendering plant and then it can be cleaned
and utilized either as fuel in alternative fuel vehicles, and you’ve
seen articles like that in the news media, or it can be sent to a
soap making plant and it can be rendered, supponified and made into
soak such as Castile soap.
MS. TRIANO: Oh, okay. When you started talking about using soap, I
was hoping it wasn’t ZEST.
But the question I have is perhaps if we need some accountability on
that, we can ask the restaurant owner to provide annual proof that it
has been cleaned out or something like that. That might be a
possibility to provide documentation that they have maintained their
– I mean, I’m not trying to give you more of a job on this thing, but
I understand the importance of accountability in this thing. For the
Town. For the safeguarding of the Town.
So, I’m just kind of thinking outside the box and trying to think if
there’s a way that we can address this issue without causing too much
difficulty for anybody.
MR. MOTES: That’s kind of tough because the box you’re dealing with
is kind of flexible. It’s really made of rubber because it depends on
what the load presented by the restaurant is. It may vary from day to
day, week to week, a portion of the year.
So, in the summertime when it’s really busy, they may need to clean
it every other week. Some really large and very busy facilities and
we do have one here in Southington, would probably likely be cleaning
that grease trap every other week if not every week just to keep it
from overloading.
And, it’s not --- it’s a matter that you don’t see the problem until
after all the damage has been done because the material inside the
grease trap is still liquid. It’s only when it gets out into the
sanitary sewer that it turns into a solid and really causes all the
damage and that’s really out of sight.
It’s really difficult to be able to say that a facility needs to be
done every four weeks and I would say also unless it’s one of the
very smallest of facilities, an annual cleaning is simply not going
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to be enough.
MS. TRIANO: I see, thank you.
THE CHAIR: If there are questions?
STEVE MENARD: I own Steve’s Family Dining on 1091 South Main Street
in Plantsville.
Your one comment was that nobody showed up. I never heard about it
until I read it in the article the next morning.
THE CHAIR: Well, again, I’m not ---
MR. MENARD: I’m just saying, I read the Southington section every
day, during the day and I never saw anything mentioned about a grease
trap system being upgraded.
And, then the misprinting in the paper making it sound like we’re all
going to have to go out and spend $18,000 to $22,000 would put me out
of business because I’m not going to dump that kind of money to stay
in business for another five to ten years.
We do have responsibility to make sure we maintain our businesses
properly. But then to put a thousand gallon tank in the ground, if
it’s not feasible or you don’t have to land, and whose to say that
down the road that tank does a leakage problem, what’s going to
happen with the environmental problems?
THE CHAIR: John, could you address that or is that a questions you
could address, or no?
MR. DE GIOIA: As far as leakage, I have never heard of one leaking.
I’m not an engineer. I’m not really ---
MR. TRANQUILLO: That’s not a problem.
MR. MENARD: Well, they said that about gas tanks in the ground years
ago.
MR. TRANQUILLO: A grease tank is no more than a normal septic tank
and those are watertight. And, even if there was a slight leakage to
it, it wouldn’t cause a major environmental problem.
MR. MENARD: What if you’re just the tenant and the landlord doesn’t
want you – wants to take the chance of that responsibility.
That happened with Rosie’s, the landlord there said no way, you’re
not putting a thousand gallon tank on my property. And, there is a
lot of businesses in this Town that do pay rent a landlord and might
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not want that responsibility. When they go out of business or they
relocate.
THE CHAIR: That’s not something we could legislate for. That would be
up to the owner.
MR. MENARD: I’m just saying some of the things that we’re looking at.
I called a few of my competitors and they didn’t hear anything about
this upgrade at that time. Now sitting here listening to him tonight,
it’s a whole different ballgame.
Saying I don’t have to upgrade unless I sell down the road. So I’m
not going to be burdened with this expense and now he’s telling me
it’s going to 1500 to 2000, well, that’s ten percent of what they
printed in the paper.
And, when I asked other people that were involved, nobody could give
me the answer.
THE CHAIR: Did you ask the Town people?
MR. MENARD: I asked Art Secondo and he told me to come to the meeting
to voice my concerns.
Another thing is, why couldn’t we have been notified?
THE CHAIR: Well, that may be something that we’ll have to --- There are certain types of public hearings that ---
MR. MENARD: Mr. Weichsel said that when we get our licenses, we’re
notified of this.
When I get my license, I send in my fee through the mail and I get a
thing in the mail. All that’s in there is my license. There’s no ---
MR. WEICHSEL: I mean the original application. That’s when this
question comes up.
MR. MENARD: Well, that’s not how you mentioned it.
MR. WEICHSEL: Don’t be concerned any more with the newspaper. You’re
here to ---
MR. MENARD: I’m asking you because of what you said.
MR. WEICHSEL: You are not changing your ownership, right?
MR. MENARD: No, I’m not. MR. WEICHSEL: So you are not affected by this at all.
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MR. MENARD: Right now --- as of tonight I’m not.
MR. WEICHSEL: Right now, you are not affected at all.
MR. MENARD: I know that tonight. But as before – what I was told
tonight, there was no way to know who was affected and who wasn’t
affected.
THE CHAIR: There is one way, and that’s to call the Town.
MR. MENARD: Well, I did talk to Art Secondo and ---
THE CHAIR: And, Art’s very knowledgeable about this, but also, too,
it’s the regulators who are the ones that are going to have an affect
on your business.
That’s the people to call.
MR. MENARD: That’s fine, but they’re telling me technically to talk
to one person and I’ve never known it was to talk to the engineer.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Well, you understand Mr. Menard, that you can talk to
any one of the three of us.
MR. MENARD: I understand that now. But when you read the paper from
day one, it was very confusing. And, I am just saying that maybe to
stop all of this confusion from day one, send notices to all the
restaurants. There must be at least 100 places in this Town you can
get a hamburger or steak or seafood and to run off 100 copies and
send them to us in the mail, so we understand that’s going on, might
have alleviated this problem to this point.
MR. WEICHSEL: No. On the contrary, that would alarm people who don’t
need to be alarmed, like yourself. You would have been concerned. Do
I have to do this?
What has happened here, excuse me, Mr. Menard, what has happened here
is a newspaper failed the fundamental rule of journalism, to go to
two sides of the question. And, they have caused all of this
difficulty. Had they consulted with John, who wasn’t here, or Tony or
myself even, they would have gotten the straight story and you
wouldn’t have been upset and others wouldn’t have been upset. So, it
only affects you if you damage the sewer, if you change ownership or
if you’re brand new which is pretty much not the question. That’s the
end of the story.
MR. MENARD: I understand that.
You’re saying the letter wouldn’t have helped but if you ---
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(More than one person speaking at the same time.)
THE CHAIR: Gentlemen, I think that we can agree that when we do have
a sewer situation that deals with neighborhoods, we do contact the
people that are there. And, sometimes maybe when there is a public
hearing that does affect a very restricted group of people, perhaps
the Town should consider the possibility of either letters or some
type of greater notice would go out.
I think that’s something we’ll have to deal with in the future. It’s
not something that affects this issue any more.
MR. MENARD: I understand that.
MR. WEICHSEL: The Council can assist us in that. When we have a
potential ordinance, maybe we’re not as up on all of that, and if you
have a sense that this public or that public should be alerted,
you’ll say it and we’ll do it.
THE CHAIR: We learn from mistakes.
In terms of information, as well.
MR. MENARD: When I first heard about this from someone, and
individual, they said new ownerships only. Then all of a sudden came
out, the way it was worded, it made it sound like we all had to
comply immediately, or we had three years to comply and after that we
would be fined so much money a day for every day we didn’t come into
compliance.
THE CHAIR: Well, that’s what this meeting is for.
MR. MENARD: Thank you.
THE CHAIR: Thank you. Sir?
DOMINICK GULATIERI: Fancy Bagels. I just, I have to agree with you
guys that it wasn’t like – it wasn’t available like for me and since
I took over the first of January of 2003.
And, when I went down to the Town to the health department, there was
no signs, there was no brochures and like many other people I was
informed through the newspaper. I think there should be a way that
you look at – it should be individually based. You know, like
somebody like me, okay?
I can prove anytime, anywhere, if you come down to my store that I do
use a cup of grease, maybe two cups on a busy day. Now that doesn’t
go anywhere near the sewer system. Now, if I can prove that, I always
have my grease trap, which is 50 gallons, which is a lot bigger than
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the little five gallon under the counter grease trap. I do have mine
cleaned regularly, every month, actually, four weeks.
And, the first time I had it cleaned, the gentleman that cleaned it,
came up and said, you don’t have any grease in there. Now, I
understand that you can’t go every restaurant at the same time, you
can’t look in, for health reasons you can’t send in a sanitarian to
go in and look in the grease trap, but you have to come up with a
monitor each individual restaurant.
Now, I was grouped in with the Kentucky Fried Chickens, these big
restaurants that have deep fryers that have these huge grills. You
see, I don’t have any of that. Now, I was grouped in there because I
was a Class III because I cook eggs or I cook a hamburger every now
and then.
Someone mentioned can you have somebody go out there and look at it
or the health department does come in, in my case, every six months.
Now, if I add equipment, they’re going to know? Now, if I change my
menu, you should make it mandatory to submit a menu when you get your
food service permit renewed. Then you’ll be able to judge by that
whether or not they’re adding stuff that could clog sewers. Now, I
mean, I’m all for that. I think that it should be. There should also
be some kind of inspection where they do go and say, you know, like
as – as far as like a surprise inspection, if you would, where you do
go into a business and say wait a second, you know?
Because this covers new businesses ---
THE CHAIR: The only way that we’re going to be able to be that
thorough is if this becomes part of the Patriot Act and the federal
government gets involved and sees this as a terrorist activity.
Because, the types of things that you’re saying really make
government, it would be really impossible. And, all intrusive. Every
time you change the menu, we can’t require that of people. It is true
that this is a problem, but this is not a monumental problem that
requires that kind of expenditures.
SPEAKER: Do you own one of these restaurants in Town? You know, it is
a big problem and people are aware and it is going to shy people away
from coming into Southington.
Now, when I took over, the store has been in Southington for 13
years, okay? I’ve been there for 6. We never had one problem with
anything. Not one. Okay?
I didn’t change anything. I didn’t make additions to the building, I
didn’t renovate. I went in just to change --- I didn’t change the
name. I didn’t change anything. And, then I get, all of a sudden I
get whacked, when it first started there was no, oh, you need to put
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a thousand gallons. It was, well, we’re working on it.
And, then I already have my food service permit, you know? I’m
already going. Now all of a sudden, six months into it, I’m told,
well, you know, we dotted the “I”s and crossed the “t’s” and you are
going to have to put one in. Or, we’ll give John the benefit of the
doubt, he did say there was an indoor one. You know? I personally
haven’t contacted John yet back on the situation because I have until
February to do that and I am doing research on the in ground ones,
the in the store ones that he’s talking about, but you know, to just
blanket everybody into one category without, nobody even came down to
my store and looked at anything when I took over.
I had my health inspection, but they didn’t come down and look at my
grease trap. They didn’t come down and look at which sinks were even
attached the grease trap, nothing like that. It was just boom, boom,
boom. And, I think the only question I have, since there was no new
ordinance passed, does the 1979 ordinance, does that state that you
need a thousand gallon grease trap? Because if not, then I’m
complying with that ordinance.
Like me, in the newspaper, I read that there was an ordinance. As a
matter of fact, the reporter that interviewed me said that they
changed the ordinance and that was in there that you need a thousand
gallon grease trap. I mean, is it an ordinance? Do you need a
thousand gallon trap or are you going by ---
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: The only thing the ordinance did, the ordinance was
vague as to who makes the final decisions. That’s all the ordinance
was vague on. And, as it worked out, we sat down, John, Chuck, myself
and Tony, we sat down and we said, okay, if you take your three
departments, who needs to make the final decision? We all agreed that
John’s department is the final decision as to whether certain things
have to happen. With the input from Chuck’s department and from
Tony’s department. And, so that’s all the change did.
It set forth one person who is the one responsible to make the final
decisions. John’s department was that. That’s all it did. It didn’t
require a thousand. What happens with the thousand is, is that under
our sewer ordinance it talks about, in your system, John’s job is to
protect our Town’s sewer system. And, how he does that, he has to use
his knowledge and the knowledge he obtains from Chuck’s department
and from Tony’s department and looking at proposed state regs or
recommended state regs. That’s where the thousand gallons came from.
So, everyone’s talking about --- I don’t know where it comes in, but
everyone’s talking about this change that we did, put or required a
thousand gallons. That never happened.
The reason the thousand gallons is there is because based upon the
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knowledge of the individuals we have here and their expertise and the
requirements and the recommendations – the requirements by the feds
and the recommendation by the state, the thousand gallon came in as a
minimum.
You’re asking how you got classified. The State of Connecticut
classifies you.
SPEAKER: I understand that.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: We don’t as the Town of Southington say, okay, the
classifies you as – what’re you a III?
SPEAKER: Yes.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: You’re classified as a III. We don’t send Chuck
Motes in there to say we’re going to modify you because you don’t do
that. You’re class III and that’s the way we have to treat you. That
may not be what you want to hear, but that’s how it happens.
MR. SECONDO: Do you own your property?
SPEAKER: No, I don’t.
MR. SECONDO: What, do you rent?
SPEAKER: I rent, yes.
MR. SECONDO: What do you figure it’s going to cost you to comply
soon?
SPEAKER: I have had appraisals done and they have ranged from $15,000
up to $25,000 because of the situation. Because of where the grease
trap would have to go, you know? It’s not, 1400 to 2000 on a clear-
cut, perfect job, the lowest I’ve gotten was $5,000. So, those
figures are off, right there.
Maybe that’s what John was given. And, I have dealt with well-known
names in Southington as far as plumbing and excavating goes and
that’s what I was given. As a matter of fact, one of them even turned
down the job and said he can’t do it.
But that’s not, and that’s where the indoor one comes in. And, I
understand that.
(End of Tape# 2, Side A) (Beginning of Tape #2, Side B)
MR. WEICHSEL: (Continuing) --- different than the numbers you have
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been circulating.
SPEAKER: Well.
MR. WEICHSEL: Four thousand. A moment ago you talked about 18 to 22
thousand.
SPEAKER: Okay, well, you know ---
MR.WEICHSEL: Four thousand sounds a lot more reasonable to me.
SPEAKER: Excuse me, sir, but I think that whether I said it to the
reporter or not, obviously, it wasn’t published and we were all just
told don’t go by the newspapers. So, please don’t go by the newspaper
because I did mention to both stories that John was allowing these
indoor grease traps, these indoor automatic ones. And, as a matter of
fact, I’ve spoken with a few different restaurants that have
installed them and we’re all in the same ballpark. It’s all around
$4000.
But my question is: How do you, I mean, is it in writing where all of
a sudden you apply for a permit and boom, like they said, new or they
sold the property, it’s a new property. Restaurant. Are they required
to put in a thousand gallons? I mean, is it in writing? Does it say,
look, you can’t get your food service permit until or unless you have
a thousand gallon grease trap? Because that has happened in Town.
And, there are restaurants that have put these in and they have spent
a lot of money on them and if they didn’t need to, I mean, why am I
going to go o9ut and do it if it’s not even an ordinance.
THE CHAIR: It is.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: It is.
MR. WEICHSEL: It is an ordinance.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: And, I don’t know where you are getting confused on
that. What happens is, you’re going in for a new restaurant, you’re
leasing from Joe Blow over at your mall, all right? You want to get a
food service permit. The first thing you have to do and I advise you
or anybody else, the first thing you have to do before you sign that
lease is to do your due diligence and go first to the health
department. The health department will send you to John’s department.
And, I’ve seen it happen because we set all this up a while ago. What
he does is he sends you to John. John then sees your situation and
sends it over to Tony. Tony then designs. It happens all the time.
You’re looking for some wording that says you’re required to put a
thousand gallon grease trap in and you’re not going to find that
anywhere. John DeGioia, who is in charge of our sewer systems, he,
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under his authority, will say yes, he’s a class III or class IV and
he needs one.
John gets his input from Tony’s department. Okay, Tony, this is what
he does. He’s a class III. Here’s the site, what do you recommend?
Tony then looks at it.
Your guy designs it and Tony reviews the design. That’s how it
happens. MR. TRANQUILLO: Mr. Chairman, as a matter of fact that did occur in
this instant case. Dominick did come in to us. We had a meeting, the
three of us. I’m not sure if Mark was there, but we had a meeting,
sit down meeting, and Dominick brought up the difficulties of putting
an exterior tank in.
The direction we gave him was have a plumber look at it, give us a
rough estimate and explain why it’s a hardship. And, then we’ll
consider other options. That’s the final meeting we had with
Dominick.
So, the process was working, but it’s not a pleasant answer we give
them, so they go away upset.
MS. TRIANO: So, my question is: Dominick, did you or have you done
what Mr. Tranquillo’s asked you to do?
SPEAKER: Yes, I have had --- I haven’t submitted anything, yet. But I
have, you know ---
MS. TRIANO: I think that would be very important for you to do at
this juncture, Dominick. Because Mr. Tranquillo is saying he wants to
work with you and I think sometimes we get all upset when we read
something or hear something and the facts are not clear and so we get
all worked up over something when the fact of the matter is, that the
situation hasn’t really been settled. And, so, my suggestion at this
juncture is to do what Mr. Tranquillo’s asked you to do. Get that
down and get a final decision on exactly --- then if there’s a
problem and it’s a huge hardship, then we take it to the next step.
But unless you go to this juncture first, thinking about what might
happen or could be required or what the Town is going to force you to
do, is really premature. Let’s take care of this first step first and
going to Mr. Tranquillo and then Mr. Motes and John and see if we can
get something together that fits your needs as well as answers to the
requirement of the community.
So, I think that that is the first step. I mean, nobody wants to see
anybody go out of business. Everyone wants to see businesses be
successful. You know I buy bagels there.
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SPEAKER: Oh, I understand.
MS. TRIANO: But my point is, let’s not get so worked up over what
might be until we find out what actually is.
SPEAKER: My concern is just that it needs to be reviewed and it
needs, there is still some confusion and before you make something
public, you know, let’s try to get everything in order because I
started out in the beginning like I said, back in January, now if
need be to have my attorney present and we go over the steps, you
know, I could bounce you guys around, there was nothing clear cut
until --- so I have no intentions of not following or submitting
anything. Like I said, I also ---
MS. TRIANO: Then Dominick, do it.
THE CHAIR: Mary?
MS. BAKER: You know, Mr. Chairman, Dominick’s situation seems to have
been prior to this ordinance and I want to say to John DeGioia, thank
you for the summary and explanation – it was not the issue before the
ordinance?
MS. TRIANO: That ordinance has always been on there.
MS. BAKER: Before any change. He has had this since January, he said.
We took no action, our action did not change anything, like Attorney
Sciota said.
I just want to say thanks to John DeGioia for supplying us the
summary of information and to explain that this is a sewer issues, a
school issue, misinformation is a problem. And, if I could give John
Weichsel’s number, I will, but go to Southington. Org, speak to a
representative of the Town. I don’t speak to another parent when I
have an issue at the school. I speak to the Principal. Get direct
answers. The gossip makes the problem worse. It spreads it and I
don’t think we need to sit here and listen to this any more, to be
honest.
And. I go to Fancy Bagels and I like their establishment.
MR. LANDINO: I just want to make sure that everybody’s clear on it
and by doing that I’m hopefully going to make sure that I’m clear on
it.
If I go to open or if I am planning on opening a restaurant tomorrow,
I will go down for an application to the health department, whoever.
One of these three gentlemen will tell me personally that you are a,
if I’m rated as a III or a IV, that I hope you realize you will need
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a 1000 gallon grease trap. They will tell me that personally. That’s
how I will find out? Or, will I read it in our regulations?
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: The health department will say you are a class
whatever. III. What they’ll probably tell you is not you’ll need one,
you better check to see if there’s one already there.
If you’re building one, then absolutely they will tell you that. But
if you’re about to rent one, the first thing they’re going to say,
check with your landlord to make sure there’s one there because if
there’s not, you sign the lease, you’re stuck with the lease and
you’re still responsible to put this in. Your landlord is going to
tell you to drop dead.
MR. LANDINO: Right, exactly. I just wanted to make sure that
everybody’s aware that they should be told this and I hope these
three gentlemen and I know they are that they do tell every applicant
that if they end up being a III or IV that a thousand right now is
our regulation for our minimum so you’re going to get a thousand
gallon tank if you try to open a class III or IV restaurant here in
Southington.
SPEAKER: My last comment is this: I shouldn’t have been able, I
shouldn’t have received my food service permit unless I put this
thousand-gallon grease trap in. That’s where my problem lies. I did
receive my food service permit which is dated in February and that’s
where my problem is. I did receive it. And, like I said back then, it
was, but we’re talking about this and the state’s talking about that,
but I was received, my food service permit was permitted and now I’m
getting --- and I was told by all three gentlemen including Town
Attorney Sciota that if I did not do this by the 15th then I would
face up to a $1,000 fine and I would not receive my food service
permit.
Now, that’s where my problem is. And, there is somethings that need
to be ironed out and I thank you all for your time.
And, one last note is, throughout the state, Tony Tranquillo, John
Degioia and Mr. Motes, they are recognized as – John’s plant is
recognized as a good plant, it’s solid. These guys, they have a solid
rep. That’s why it boggles me that it got to this point when dealing
with the state, all three of them are recognized as experts in their
field. They all have a good track record. And, I just hope that it
gets ironed out before other things do happen and more confusion is
made and other businesses don’t come to this Town.
But, I thank you all for your time.
MR.LANDINO: One more quick one. How does he get his permit if he at
that point in time didn’t tell you or you three guys weren’t
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satisfied that he had that thousand gallon tank?
MR. DE GIOIA: Apparently, something slipped through the cracks.
Because I never did see an application. A food service application. I
would have marked it that it needed it.
MR. LANDINO: In other words, if someone comes to you, they have to
meet the recommendation of a thousand gallons before they’ll even get
their permit?
MR. DE GIOIA: Oh, yes. Yes, that’s how we do it.
MR. LANDINO: Okay.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Not to say, we aren’t perfect.
THE CHAIR: Okay, thank you. Anyone else?
B. Center Street - Phase 6C
MR. WEICHSEL: We have the letter from Tony Tranquillo. (Read
Attachment 7)
The second bid was within a few dollars. It was very, very
competitive bidding, which tends to verify that it’s a good bid and
you have heard the recommendation.
THE CHAIR: Any questions?
C. Report by Town Engineer on pavement cuts policy
MR. WEICHSEL: Tony will review our pavement cut policy.
MR. TRANQUILLO: As the Council well knows, in a Town that is as busy
as Southington is and developing as rapidly as we are, there are
tremendous activities that take place on Town roads. Utility
extensions. Lateral installations. Repairs. The streets appear to be
always ripped up and torn up.
We’ve struggled with this for years just like every other Town does
because the contractor goes out and digs a trench and it’s a fresh
trench so over a period of six months or a year, it settles and the
contractor is supposed to maintain it during that settlement period.
Guess what? Often times they don’t. So, there’s a bump there. It’s a
nuisance. Sometimes it’s a hazard.
So, I’m not the only one who has this problem. Every engineer in the
state has the problem. What other engineers have that we don’t have
is a better tracking system and a better licensing system. Believe it
or not, about three months ago we started a process to get a
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licensing system of road excavators. And, then a better permit system
to track them better.
As of probably December 1st or January 1st, at the latest, we will
start a new procedure where any contractor who is going to dig in a
Town road will have to be first of all licensed and have a $5,000
bond and a minimum of $2,500 cash on file with us.
Second thing we’re going to do is when a contractor comes in to take
a permit, we will estimate how many square feet he’s going to disturb
and he will have to pay us the final restoration. We’ll actually take
his money and put it in a special account in escrow and after a year
or a year and a half, we will use his money to do the final repair.
That will give us tremendous power and financial resources to make
sure that we keep better track of the trench system and that we don’t
have people digging illegally, which very honestly I have to tell you
now, we have about 250 excavations a year and I would dare say
probably 10% of those are illegal. They never take a permit and they
never post a bond. They just go out there some morning and start
digging. Unless we catch them, there’s nothing we can do about it.
So, the new system will have a lot of teeth to it and it will make a
system far more responsive to the guy who is not going to do it
properly or do it illegally and try to give us a bad job at the end
to try to save himself money. It cost us money to have bad trenches
in the street. This will be a way of solving those.
There are probably a dozen other communities in the state that have
this system. They’ve reported good results with it.
MR. WEICHSEL: Did I miss it, or did you tell them that the final
course we will do through a contractor we hire?
MR. TRANQUILLO: I didn’t say those words, no. But we will do the
final patch. I did say that.
MR. WEICHSEL: I think that’s important. That’s not --- I have not
wanted to do this for a long time for obvious reasons. But what
you’ve heard is that, particularly a Town like Southington that’s so
active, now I am persuaded and you have approved it by ordinance that
we will then be doing the final, not the maintenance, but we feel we
would get a uniform good presentation on the streets. The way it is
now, we’re in the hands, as you just heard, of the individual
contractor. Some good, some not so good. So, we’ll be getting a
decent contract and we’ll be able to do like 100 cuts at a moment and
get a uniform quality. That, to me, is one of the important things
out of all of this.
MR. SECONDO: Tony, does that include CL&P and the gas lines? They’re
the ones that seem to be ripping up the roads.
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MR. TRANQUILLO: No. The public utilities are slightly different. Even
in the ordinance it says that a public utility does the excavation,
they are not subject to the license, but they do have to take out the
permit. But we’ve had a problem in the past because of utility
companies trying to circumvent the regulations by taking the permit
in their name and then having a private contractor do the work. We
will no longer allow that.
If the utility forces themselves are digging with their own manpower
and their own equipment, they won’t have to take out a license. But
if they put out a contract to XYC contractor, and he’s not part of
their operations, then he will have to put up a bond, the monies and
get the license and get the permit.
MR. SECONDO: You would think that everybody who is cutting up the
road would have to put up an orange flag or some indication that
they’ve already gotten approval so everybody can be a watch dog or
somebody can be an informant. I can’t believe that you’ve had 25 cuts
into our roads a year that are unauthorized. Everybody should have, really, an orange flag put up there to get
permission. If you don’t see an orange flag up there, then they are a
bunch of pirates.
MR. TRANQUILLO: That’s right, but we are so overloaded with day to
day duties that we just can’t chase these people around, Art. It’s
impossible.
MR. SECONDO: I mean, if they didn’t have a flag, then it could be
apparent to all the police that there’s no flag, or even Council
people, anybody.
MR. TRANQUILLO: The system we have now, there are people out there
that would fabricate a flag and put the flag up, even though they
didn’t have a permit.
MR.WEICHSEL: A flag is not the answer.
MR. SECONDO: I mean, I’m just, well, I understand.
MR. TRANQUILLO: That’s just an example.
THE CHAIR: But Tony, what are the costs, administrative costs of what
you’re proposing? I mean, I can see the end game of this that the
costs are better. Are you talking about administrative costs that are
going to ---
MR. TRANQUILLO: There will be one man, probably half his time during
the week, that will be devoted to this.
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MR.WEICHSEL: We are not proposing to add staff. We’re going to do it
with existing staff.
THE CHAIR: For how long?
MR. TRANQUILLO: Well, let me just make a comment, we’ve had this
ordinance on the books for probably six or seven years and we did not
implement it. The reason we did not implement it is we were waiting
for a Townwide computer system. Proper Townwide computer system. We
now have that. That’s why we are implementing it. With a proper
computer system to track the licenses, the permits and the monies, we
can do this efficiently.
We tried to do it before and it would have taken one man all weeklong
to do this.
MR. RICCIO: Mr. Chairman, I’ve got to say that Tony’s office does a
good job --- Tony and his office --- when it comes to alternative to
subdividisions and that sort of thing. So, that’s a good thing.
Whenever we can do that, the contractor should be encouraged to work
with alternatives.
MR. DE PAOLO: Just a couple of questions, Tony. Does this include
cuts by the water department, also, any work that they do?
MR. TRANQUILLO: No. They are a public utility. So they will be exempt
from the license, but not the permit. And, they will not have to post
the restoration cost.
MR. DE PAOLO: They’re considered a public utility?
MR. TRANQUILLO: Yes.
MR. WEICHSEL: But they would basically be under it. I mean, we don’t
need them to post a bond. They have money enough to pay. That’s the
least of it. They would be tracked and they don’t need an individual
license, but they would have to get an excavation permit and with
that we can keep control of that situation.
MR. DE PAOLO: Same with money, they’d have to give you money to do
the final paving?
MR. TRANQUILLO: No, the presumption here is that the public utility
is not going to disappear into the night. And, if they don’t perform
properly, we have recourse through the DPUC.
MR. DE PAOLO: Okay. Let me see if I got this right. He pays you for
the final paving?
MR. TRANQUILLO: Yes, upfront.
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MR. DE PAOLO: Upfront. And, then you go out to bid and somebody else
could get the job and we pay that other person with this guy’s money.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Correct.
MR. WEICHSEL: It wouldn’t be one cut, it might be 30 or 40.
THE CHAIR: Are we making money on this?
MR. TRANQUILLO: No, no, no. We’re not making money because there is
an initial estimate and a posting of money they post with us. At the
final patch, then it’s adjusted. If there is a credit, we credit him.
If there’s a debit, then it comes out of his $2,500 deposit that he
has with us.
THE CHAIR: Every cut could be different.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Correct. That’s what the man is going to do. He’s
going to go out there and measure the final patch. And, make the
adjustment. So you can understand why I waited until we have a proper
computer system. This can be very complicated. So, we’re writing
software right now to keep track of all this. And, generate monthly
reports, weekly reports to make sure that we don’t intentionally or
unintentionally take money that doesn’t belong to us. We’re not
looking to make a penny on this. We’re just looking to restore the
road surface to at least its original condition.
MR. WEICHSEL: You would measure it and you’d be pretty accurate. One
is 3 sy and another one is 6 sy, so ---
THE CHAIR: But the cost of material changes over a period of time.
MR. TRANQUILLO: It would be for one year.
THE CHAIR: One year, you are right, it’s not going to be a long
period of time.
MR. DE PAOLO: It doesn’t seem kosher to me, I don’t know. The guy
pays you and then you use his money to hire somebody else.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Well, let me make a comment though. The money that
the contractor is putting up front, let’s say $500, he should have
bid that in the cost of the job. So, when he digs his trench and he
gets paid a month later, his client will have paid him the $500.
MR. DE PAOLO: Why can’t he finish his own job? Why can’t he do the
work?
MR. WEICHSEL: That’s what we’ve been doing for 50 years and the
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results at this very meeting we hear complaints and this is an
attempt to ----
MR. DE PAOLO: If he’s bidding the proper amount according to the job,
he should do the proper job at the end and you should make sure that
he does.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Well, that’s the problem. We don’t have the manpower
or the time to chase people around.
MR. DE PAOLO: Well, this is going to cost you more manpower doing
this other work.
MR. TRANQUILLO: No, this is less manpower. Once it gets started and
the contractors realize that they have to put the money for the
trench repair upfront, the proper amount of money upfront, then
they’ll bid the job properly.
What happens now is you have 5 contractors bidding a project. So,
they say, well, I’ll chintz a little bit on the road patch. I’ll save
$200-$300 on that. So, they get the job and guess what they’re going
to chintz on? Road patch. And, then it’s up to us to chase them for
months, months and months to try to get them to fix it.
I’ve chased one guy for a year over on Spring Street. Four trenches.
I had to personally hound him. He wouldn’t respond to my men. I had
to personally hound him until he replaced the trenches.
MR. DE PAOLO: Is this a procedure used, other Towns use this?
MR. TRANQUILLO: There is probably a dozen other communities that use
this procedure. Ours is modeled on their system.
MR. DE PAOLO: It seems strange to me.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Well, you see, if you understand what’s happening
here is the contractor, if he realizes this is the system and he puts
the right money in for the trench patch and he does the job and he’s
collecting it from the homeowner and it’s passing through directly to
us, it’s not costing the homeowner any extra. It’s not costing the
contractor any extra. He’s just advancing it to us. So that we’ll
repair it a year later.
That’s in essence what this system is. It’s advancing the money for
the repair.
MR. LANDINO: I would think that they would like it. I would think
that the contractor would like it.
They’re finished with the job, they patch it, and they go home. They
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don’t have to worry about him hounding them. They just say, hey ---
you’ve got my money. You fix it.
MR. SECONDO: You see the problem is that’s for the future cuts into
the road. The problem is the ones that have gotten away with it now
and the ones that are doing it now. These guys, like John was real
quick to point out, we’re not adding any staff. But we worry about
peanuts when in essence all of our roads are --- a lot of roads and
John says they’re not that bad, but we have a lot of roads where you
need fixing or repaving.
My God. The cost alone, because we can’t catch up with these guys,
and Tony, I want to add, on Summer Street I did make a reference
about Summer Street. It’s not bad. For some reason, either somebody
went back and put that sealant on it.
THE CHAIR: They did that in late May.
MR. TRANQUILLO: That was a gas main.
MR. SECONDO: But that’s my point, this is great for the future but
unfortunately for the past ---- let me ask you one final question.
How many Inspectors do you have to check on this? MR. TRANQUILLO: I have two full time Inspectors. But they are very
busy with construction projects, subdivisions and site plans. I’ve
now put a third Inspector on to try to cover the workload. So, at the
moment we have three Inspectors.
MR. RICCIO: If there are bad ones, Art, bring them to the Council and
keep bringing them. We’ll fix them.
He’s setting up a system to go forward.
MR. SECONDO: But it’s costing us money. That’s all I’m saying. All I
said was it’s too bad we can’t do anything about the ones that are
already ----
MR. WEICHSEL: Well, any change, there’s always a transition. You
can’t avoid that.
THE CHAIR: We did get more LOCIP money, I saw.
MR. WEICHSEL: It wouldn’t hurt if the state would fund their roadwork
a little more like they used to.
D. Bids - Engineering Department vehicle
MR. WEICHSEL: We have this further letter from Tony. (Read Attachment
8)
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You folks cannot buy the Taurus at $13,000.
THE CHAIR: That’s a good price.
MS. BAKER: I know. That’s a great price.
E. Commercial Benefits - Masotti Electric, Southington Suites LLC
MR. WEICHSEL: Paul sat here through most of the meeting. We’ll let
him handle this item. Paul, do you want to brief the Council, please,
on these two items?
MR. HOOVER: We have two commercial enterprises in the – two new ones
that are operating in the enterprise zone. And, under the 1995
ordinance passed by the Council, they’re entitled to what we call
commercial benefits as a result of their being in that particular
zone.
It is an abatement of their taxes on buildings, only. It does not
cover machinery and equipment.
I want to remark briefly on the two separately because they have
slightly different circumstances. Masotti Electric is the first one.
It came to our attention not too long ago that they had been
operating there as a commercial enterprise, but for some reason, they
had not gotten a letter from our office indicating to them that they
were officially recognized as a commercial enterprise in the
enterprise zone and therefore, their tax abatement had not clicked
in.
The Assessor had recognized the situation in 1999, I guess it was,
that they had been on the record. And, then a memo of correction in
the year 2002, he was establish their abatement.
So, what we need to do is retroactively, I guess, approve the reality
that they are an enterprise working in the enterprise zone. And, give
them a continuation of their tax benefits.
The 1995 ordinance, if you’re aware of it, for the first two years,
they have 100% abatement of their taxes on the building. Then it goes
50%, 40, 30, 20 and 10, down for a 7-year program. That’s the first
one.
The one thing I couldn’t find in the record was that they had ever
made an application to get these benefits and the only thing that I
did find was that they had bought Lot 3 on Captain Lewis Drive and
they had gotten an approval from the Council as a business that would
operate there and was allowed under the rules of Captain Lewis Drive.
So, what was their belief that they had been approved and so that’s
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how it got situated in the tax line up.
The other – are there any questions on about that?
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: I have one question, Paul. Did you say you are
starting them now in 1999 so their 7 years starts in ’99 --- MR. HOOVER: I’m sorry. Not in 1999. I misspoke. They bought the lot
in the year 2000 and they were on the books according to the list we
had, they were recognized as a commercial benefit receiver in the
year 2001. That’s the October 1, 2001 Grand List and their tax bill
then would go in 2002. They didn’t get it, so they complained about
it and that’s when Herb gave them the memo of correction.
And, now this year they came back again.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Are they being refunded for the Grand List of
October 1, 2001, are they being refunded that?
MR. HOOVER: No. No. They were put on a memo of correction. And, they
haven’t paid. Their tax has been abated.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: You are crediting them forward, then.
MR. HOOVER: They are going to go ahead forward after this year of
50,40, 30. This year, they’re still on 100%.
The other one is just a routine – this is the Dunkin Donuts
associated with the Residence Inn over on West Street. They’ve sent
in their application. They are – they meet the requirements. And,
they would get on the tax rolls as of this October 30th. And, would
or October 1st. And, then their tax bill would reflect the abatement
next July.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, Paul. Any questions of Paul?
MS. TRIANO: Mr. Chairman, I see that on Old Business, we’re going to
be making an action on one of these ---
THE CHAIR: Both of them.
MS. TRIANO: So, do we need to add it as an Item I.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: They’re both on H.
MS. TRIANO: Oh, Southington Suites? Okay, thank you. Sorry. It’s
getting late and I’m slipping.
THE CHAIR: No questions? Okay, thanks, Paul.
Anything else, John?
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MR. WEICHSEL: No, Mr. Chairman, that completes my report.
THE CHAIR: Any questions of the Manager? Town Attorney’s Report?
V. Town Attorney's Report
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. August has been a busy
month for the Town purchasing and in fact selling a piece. The Town
did complete it’s sale on East Street. If you remember that
correctly, I do want to report back to you. You asked me to report
after we got the appraisal for East Street. It was $40,000 and that
transfer has taken place. The Town did sell that parcel. I think the
Town did very well on that particular appraisal.
As for the Anderson and the Thompson purchases, remember those are
the last two for our library project. Anderson was purchased on
August 20th, 2003. As you remember, the purchase price was $170,000.
We paid most of that out of the budgeted amount that John and I put
in last year. There is still approximately a $20,000 promissory note
that has to be in next year’s budget.
Thompson was 210. We purchased that on August 19th. That’s been paid
in full and there is no promissory note.
And, as Bill alluded to, the Novick piece has been finally purchased
by the Town, August 7th. We received the clearing for the
environmental 6th, so we closed on August 7th. The family was very
interested in closing that as quickly as possible. If you recall with
that, the Town had authorized John and I to go as high as $200,000
for the clean up. We got lucky, in my opinion, with the clean up. It
cost $85,000. So, it was nowhere near the $200,000 that originally
was proposed to us. So, the total purchase price for that property
was $1,435,725, of which we still have a promissory note of $450,000,
which is due on or before July 31st of next year.
Also, Mr. Chairman, I have several items for Executive Session. I
know it’s late, so we’ll go as quickly as we possibly can.
THE CHAIR: Just a question on the purchases. Do we have any
maintenance that we have to do on the purchase of the library
properties?
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Yes, as the procedure John and I sat up back when we
were buying for the Town Hall, we turn the properties over to the
Parks, but in this particular case, -- which house was it?
MR. WEICHSEL: Thompson.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: The library has asked John for the use of the two
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houses on the Thompson property which they are currently occupying so
they have taken over responsibility for that. They are using the
houses for storage, I believe. I’m not sure what else they are using
it for.
MR. WEICHSEL: Yes, storage.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: And, as for the Anderson property, that has been
secured by Jiggy’s office and the keys are with Jiggy and the
Manager.
THE CHAIR: Cutting lawn and stuff like that? We’re doing those
things?
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Well, the library would be responsible for Thompson.
As for Sidorik and Anderson, which are the two closest to the library
that technically would be our responsibility through the Parks
Department.
MR. RICCIO: Mr. Chairman, I did get a call and I asked John about
tearing them down now.
MR. WEICHSEL: Well, at the budget we went through that, so I think
it’s untimely to now make a special request. In the next budget, I
indicated to Mike, that we would go for at least knocking down either
the Academy Street buildings or the library buildings. To get started
on that.
MR. RICCIO: We should get them down as soon as possible.
THE CHAIR: Definitely. Maintenance becomes a problem as time goes on.
But if they’re using them, I don’t know if ---
MR. WEICHSEL: Well, only one building has some use, but there’s no
question, I mean, budgets are always tough times and you look for is
there something you can delay and so on.
THE CHAIR: This one, being on Main Street, its kind of hard not to
maintain those properties.
MR. WEICHSEL: Well, I get the drift from the Council you wish me
definitely to include that then in the upcoming budget.
MR. RICCIO: I would say absolutely.
MR. WEICHSEL: Mr. Riccio would like to do it today.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Well, we know have four houses for the library and
we have the three still on Academy so, certainly John will have to
sit down and figure out what is your first choice to tear down.
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MR. RICIO: My recommendation would be we get a bulk price on all of
them and –
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: All seven?
MR. RICCIO: Absolutely.
MR. SECONDO: There are people in some of those houses already.
MR. WEICHSEL: The homeless are going to complain, but I guess we have
to go forward regardless.
THE CHAIR: Any other questions?
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
VI. Report of Special Committees
(None)
VII Public Communications
ILLIO FUSCIELLO: 82 Autran Avenue. I just to be here and see its
about $17 million, if I got it right. I know that finances put in the
detail and then the Council overrules to give more money.
A few years ago, New York, they were going to bankruptcy. And, then
they got money to keep going. Now, we have California to go to
bankruptcy. I heard in the news that they gave almost $100,000 to
those they call the warrant, those that look for those who are in
jail.
They say if you no give to us, when election comes, we don’t vote for
you. I heard the same thing in this Town a few years ago. I know that
Mr. Giuliani said we have to think about the children and
grandchildren and if my father was still alive, he should still take
care of me.
I did the income tax like everybody else last two years. By myself
for the first time. I grossed I think about 21,000 or 22,000 dollars.
And, I pay about $8,000 taxes. And, I guess I net 12,000 dollars.
This is going for years.
Where is the 27 mil for thousand. It means if you have a house that
cost, you appraise at $100,000 you have to $2,700 taxes?
EVERYONE: Correct.
SPEAKER: That is what that means? So, if you appraise the house ---
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ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Assessed. Not appraised. Assessed.
SPEAKER: Assessed. Excuse me, thank you for correcting me.
Assessment, thank you.
So, if you have the house and you work and everything goes well and
it’s worth $200,000 and then you pay over $5,000. Right? Tax? And, if
you don’t work any more you have to live on disability, something,
you still have to pay that kind of money.
Well. But, that discourages people to have a house in a certain way.
I know in certain places, they pay – it means $100,000 – they pay
$700. I’ve been lucky to visit San Diego a few years go to see my
relative and the house was about three times bigger than mine. I paid
600 or 770, they would pay $1700.
Thank you to listen.
THE CHAIR: Anyone else from the public wishing to speak?
VIII. Old Business
THE CHAIR: In terms of action on this, can we set them all at once,
or do we them one a time?
MR. WEICHSEL: One at a time, please.
THE CHAIR: As for the date, Leslie has requested it be Wednesday,
October 15th. She felt that the day after the Columbus would be a
logistical problem for her, so she’s requested that.
She also made a request for the hours of operation at one school,
12:00 to 8:00.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Derynoski is her request.
MR. WEICHSEL: Might I just comment? The comment made earlier in the
meeting by Phil is not constructive. I remember a Mayor saying that
once you are in a car, you’re in a car. I mean, if you’re going to
drive even from Mt. Vernon, what’s the difference if you’re going to
a West Street School or you are going to Derynoski. So, I don’t think
that was a very good comment to suggest we’d have more than one
booth.
The hours, that’s up to your folks. But to put up more than one booth
I think is a waste of time.
MR. DE PAOLO: I agree with John on the location. I think one school
is adequate. But, I think 12:00 TO 8:00 is really not enough time. A
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couple of years ago we had one, I remember, 8:00, Attorney Nugent was
fighting people to try to get in the door because they didn’t have
enough time to come and vote. I don’t’ think 8 hours is enough. Maybe
we don’t have to go from 6:00 am, but there probably could be some
compromise, but it should be more than 8. Maybe 10:00 to 8:00 or 8:00
to 8:00 or something. But, I think definitely more than 8 hours.
MS. TRIANO: Mr. Chairman, I would agree with that. I would even go
one step further, Bill. I think that because folks go to work in the
morning, most would like to vote before the leave for work. I don’t
see a problem with opening the polls at 7:00 or 6:30 in the morning.
I know it’s a long day for the folks, but I would like to give
everyone the opportunity even before they go to work to be able to
vote on these very important matters.
MS. BAKER: Mr. Chair, has there ever been any referendum when they
split time? I think 6:00 am is better as well and if you could 6:00
to noon and 4:00 to 8.
THE CHAIR: That would make it more confusing.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Leslie said whatever the Council wants. It’s only a
recommendation.
THE CHAIR: I’m hearing that the consensus of the Council is 6:00 to
8:00 and one location. Derynoski.
A. Action on Proposed Ordinance appropriating $1,750,000 for the
Misery Brook Sanitary Sewer Interceptor Emergency Bypass Project.
THE CHAIR: I’ll entertain a motion on the first ordinance?
MS. TRIANO: Mr. Chairman, I would move that we place the referendum
vote ---
MR. WEICHSEL: Excuse me, just a second. Approve the ordinance and
then the second part of that, the referendum.
MS. TRIANO: Okay, so we need two motions on each item?
MR.WEICHSEL: No, it can be --- but you kind of jumped over the first.
Approve the ordinance and then establish ---
MS. TRIANO: Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I would move that we approve the
ordinance appropriating $1,750,000 for the Misery Brook Sanitary
Sewer Interceptor Emergency By Pass Project and also place it on a
referendum vote for October 15th, from the hours of 6:00 to 8:00 at
Derynoski School.
THE CHAIR: Six am to 8:00 pm. Okay.
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MR. RICCIO: Second.
(Motion passed 8 to 0 on a roll call vote.)
B. Action on Proposed Ordinance appropriating $10,000,000 for the
Carl M. Small Regional Vocational Agriculture Center Project.
MR. RICCIO: I’d like to make a motion to approve the ordinance
appropriating $10,000,000 for the Carl Small Regional Vocational
Agriculture Center Project. And, place it on referendum for a public
on October 15th from 6:00 am to 8:00 pm. At Derynoski School.
MR. SECONDO: Second.
MR. RICCIO: Just a comment, I would like to thank Dr. Polansky and
his staff, I see Marian is still here. I had the opportunity to have
some discussions with her on expanding the vocational program to some
farmland that the Town has acquired and had some very interesting
discussions. And, the enlightenment that the public received tonight
I think was excellent in expanding this program and keeping it in
Southington.
I know John made comments, I was a little disturbed by his comments
about giving it to another community out of Town. This is a great
asset for us and we should be improving the education for our kids.
Thank you.
(Motion passed 8 to 0 on a roll call vote.) C. Action on Proposed Ordinance appropriating $2,000,000 for
acquisition of land for open space, passive recreation and
conservation purposes.
MR. DE PAOLO: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion we approve the ordinance
appropriating $2 million for acquisition of land for open space
passive recreation and conservation purposes and place it on
referendum for October 15th.
MR. RICCIO: Second.
(Motion passed 8 to 0 on a roll call vote.)
D. Action on Proposed Ordinance appropriating $1,600,000 for
acquisition of the Brandenburg property on River Street.
MR. SECONDO: Mr. Chairman, motion to approve the proposed ordinance
appropriating $1.6 million for acquisition of the Brandenburg
property on River Street and that the referendum be held on
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Wednesday, October 15th at Derynoski School from 6:00 am to 8:00 pm.
MR. RICCIO: Second.
(Motion passed 8 to 0 on a roll call vote.)
E. Action on Proposed Ordinance increasing the appropriation and
borrowing authorization for the Central Fire Station Addition Project
to $1,645,000.
MR. BARRY: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we approve the bonding
ordinance of $1,645,000 to be placed on the October referendum date.
MR.SECONDO: Second.
(Motion passed 8 to 0 on a roll call vote.)
F. Award of Center Street - Phase 6C Bid
MS. BAKER: Mr. Chairman, I move that we award the bid for Center
Street beautification to LaRosa Construction in the amount of
$452,042.
MR. SECONDO: Second.
THE CHAIR: Tony, does this have the same issues of performance, the
performance bonus?
MR. TRANQUILLO: Actually, slightly different. We have set up a time
schedule of I believe December 15th for completion. If they finish
late it will be $1,000/day penalty. If they finish early, they’ll get
a bonus of $1,000/day. THE CHAIR: Now, last year, the weather would have intervened and that
would have made that impossible.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Well, the reason we set the benefits so high is that
we really want them to rush to finish before winter. We can’t control
the weather.
THE CHAIR: Neither can he.
MR. TRANQUILLO: We’re going to have to keep our fingers crossed.
THE CHAIR: But they all agreed to that?
MR. TRANQUILLO: If they bid, I assume they’re agreeing to it.
THE CHAIR: Obviously, they did.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Actually, LaRosa called me Friday and they were very,
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very happy that they got the project. So, they’re ready to go.
MR.RICCIO: Just a comment, Tony. Can we address the grates on this
round?
MR. TRANQUILLO: The grates in the 2nd Phase are being shipped back to
the factory and refinished.
MR. RICCIO: So, the next phase, they’ll be ---
MR. TRANQUILLO: I’m hoping that they’ve learned their lesson after
two mistakes. That they have to do it right the first time.
MR. RICCO: Really. Same factory?
MR. TRANQUILLO: Same supplier, yes.
MR. SECONDO: Tony, when you get the drawings on this last phase,
would you just show it to us to make sure that we have the same
amount of benches and lamps and all that all of the way down?
MR. TRANQUILLO: We have the plans already if you want to see them at
the next meeting. We’ll do that.
THE CHAIR: Any other questions?
MR. DE PAOLO: I just want to comment. LaRosa did a great job on the
last phase and everybody’s going to be happy with him, even the
merchants down there and the Town’s people. He goes over and above
just doing the job. He’s concerned with entranceway into their
buildings and things of this nature.
My only concern was, I didn’t realize it was $1,000/day. He finished
like a month early last time he did that?
MR.TRANQUILLO: The last time we gave him a little bit more time and
he finished about 28 days early.
MR. DE PAOLO: So, if he does that again, we’re talking 30 grand more
on top of this project.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Luckily, we budgeted 575 and the bid came in at 452.
So, it would not be a budget breaker.
THE CHAIR: There’s no clock this time.
MR. WEICHSEL: We felt the area that you’re in, that timing is very,
very crucial. We know we’re putting a lot of money on the table, but
we think downtown, you’re kind of obliged to make every effort.
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MR. TRANQUILLO: You really don’t want to live through the winter with
that project half finished and that’s why we have that at $1,000/day.
THE CHAIR: Any other questions?
(Motion passed 8 to 0 on a roll call vote.)
(End of Tape 2, Side B) (Beginning of Tape #3, Side A)
MR. TRANQUILLO: (continuing) --- have that responsibility. And, Matt
Welinsky was handling that very adequately for them and then they ran
out of money or they decided to terminate his employment, whatever.
But we have received about $15,000 from them. We still have
additional monies that are due us on that whole program. We have
written several letters regarding that issue. I believe we were
reticent to really start ordering a lot of things there until we had
the money issue squared away. But, we are going to get started.
MS. TRIANO: Well, let me ask you a question: Those individuals that
purchased lamps and benches, paid for – paid the Chamber. Now, did we
get all of that money?
MR. TRANQUILLO: No.
MS. TRIANO: And, the Chamber still has that money?
MR. TRANQUILLO: Yes.
MR. WEICHSEL: They gave us 15 and we now expect the rest.
MR. TRANQILLO: By my estimation that sum should have been 45,000
roughly. We have received 15. And, now we’re going to take over the
Phase II plaques. And, what we need to do is contact all of the
individuals who bought items because the benches and the lampposts
have been moved around slightly. So some individuals purchased those
facilities with the intent of it “must be” in this location.
MS.TRIANO: Yes.
MR. TRANQUILLO: It must be right here. So, we are going to give them
the opportunity to withdraw if they’re not happy with the location.
But that implies that we need to give them money back. So, that’s why
we held off on doing all of this because we wanted the monies from
the Chamber.
I also hear rumors now that they sold 600 or 700 bricks. And, there
are many people that are stating that the bricks aren’t there. Their
brick that they bought is not there. So, this is a major nightmare
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for my department, trying to straighten all of this out.
The first issue is the money. The second issue is a detailed list of
who bought items and what the inscription had to say. We don’t want
to mess that up. So, we’ve waited quite a while for those two items
and now we’ve waited as long as we can and we’re probably going to
get started with contacting people and saying, do you still want to
be in the program. We do have that $15,000 that we can refund if we
need to.
MS. TRIANO: So, you are going to back to the original group of people
that purchased things to see if they still want to be in the program?
MR. TRANQUILLO: Yes, because the items have changed. The location of
the items have changed. So, they may wish to withdraw. We have to
give them that option. Because Matt Welinksy told me some of these
people specifically said, I will buy this item, but it must be
located right here at this location.
MS. TRIANO: Yes, I was one of them.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Yes. I didn’t want to mention your name. But, we will
give that individual or all the individuals the option of saying this
is where the bench was moved to, do you want your money back or are
you happy with that location?
MS. TRIANO: I’ll speak to you this week, Tony.
MR. TRANQUILLO: That’s the only thing we can do, Vicky.
MS. TRIANO: I understand.
MR. TRANQUILLO: There’s nothing else we can do. THE CHAIR: I’ve seen Tony’s file on this and it’s not a pretty sight.
MS.TRIANO: Well, I just, it’s a shame that this is happening because
people in good faith gave that money and I’m sure that the Chamber
will make good on it. I’m sure they’ll make good on it.
THE CHAIR: John likes to say, no good deed goes unpunished.
MR. DE PAOLO: Is there going to be a problem with the funds? I mean
Vicky’s comment is well taken. Are we going to have some problems
with this – what are we talking $30,000? That’s a lot of money.
MS. TRIANO: Yes, it’s a lot of money.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Well, I spoke to John about this. And, we basically
said, if there’s a problem, the Chamber is going to have to answer
for it. That’s the bottom line. The Chamber has sold items and the
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individuals have recourse through the Chamber. What are we going to
do about it? We didn’t take the money.
MR. DE PAOLO: I’m just asking you if in your mind, do you anticipate
a problem collecting this $30,000. That’s all I’m saying.
MR. TRANQUILLO: Well, I don’t know. I’ve made several calls to the
Chamber and I think Mark wrote a letter. I think the Manager wrote a
letter and we’ve received $15,000 to-date.
No good accounting.
MR. RICCIO: Perhaps we should get in touch with the Chairman of the
Board over there.
MR. WEICHSEL: Well, if they would hire a Director, I’m sure things
could go better.
MR. DE PAOLO: Well, they have people running the show. Let’s get in
touch with them. This is a lot of money. We only got 15. I didn’t
realize it was that much difference. I thought it was just a few
thousand dollars. We’re talking 30 grand.
MR. TRANQUILLO: I added up the items they sold and by my estimation,
it’s something in the order of 40 or 45 is what they sold. Now there
are expenses off of that. The plaque. Engraving of the brick. There
are expenses. So, if you discount some expenses, we might expect 30
or 35 and that’s what I wanted the accounting of.
MR. DE PAOLO: Sure. Well, if they sold it, they have the money. As
Mike says, somebody’s over there in charge. Let’s get going on it,
whatever. We just can’t let the thing drag. And, if legal action is
necessary, fine. But there’s people that paid money for these things
and where is it? Nobody knows.
MR. TRANQUILLO: We will contact them within the next two weeks.
MR. WEICHSEL: We’ll follow through. We’ll probably sick our
collection dog after them.
THE CHAIR: Okay.
G. Award of Engineering Department vehicle bid
MS. TRIANO: Mr. Chairman, I would make a motion that we approve the
engineering vehicle bid to Crowley Ford with the amount indicated in
the bid.
MR. LANDINO: Second.
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(Motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.)
H. Action on Commercial Benefits to Masotti Electric and Southington
Suites LLC.
THE CHAIR: Masotti Electric, it’s going to be retroactive and
Southington Suites, LLC is as it is.
MR. RICCIO: Make a motion to approve as our Economic Development
Officer has presented to us.
MS. BAKER: Second.
(Motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.)
IX. New Business
A. Establishment of Public Hearing for sewer rate increase
MR. WEICHSEL: You are concurrently going to take care of the
Miscellaneous item when you set that.
THE CHAIR: This and the next meeting will be together here.
John has requested that there be a change in the meeting schedule so
that it be on the 29th instead of the 22nd. Any discussion on that?
MR. SECONDO: I’d just like to keep it the 22nd because that is what
people are used to. We meet the 2nd and 4th Mondays. Unless there’s
something so vital we have to have John here. He goes away to a
conference and we can’t have a Council meeting?
MR. DE PAOLO: Mr. Chairman, I think it’s not unprecedented. We’ve
changed meetings before. I think if the Manager makes a request of
you, there’s a reason that he wants to be here and I think this rate
change, going up 19 percent, should have him here. I think because of
his request, if nothing else, we should change it.
EVERYONE: Agree. We like the change.
THE CHAIR: Jim Bowes did make a request through Jimmy, and he’s not
here, that John be here.
MR. WEICHSEL: I think the grief of it, I should have the pleasure.
THE CHAIR: I’ll entertain a motion on the establishment of a public
hearing for sewer rate increase. If we do decide on the 29th, then
that will change the meeting to the 29th.
MS. BAKER: I move that we establish a public hearing for the sewer
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rate increase on September 29th at 7:00 pm.
MR. BARRY: Second.
(Motion passed 7 – 1 with Mr. Secondo opposed on a voice vote.)
B. Appointments:
1. Commission on Disability - 1 member
MS. TRIANO: Mr. Chairman, we would like to place Ralph Thomas Riccio
in as Commissioner on Disability. As many of you know, Ralph is a
native Southingtonite living on Main Street in Town and I think he
would be great to the Commission.
MS. BAKER: Second.
(Motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.)
2. Mid-Connecticut Workforce Development Board - 2 members
THE CHAIR: Right now it is Ed Kalat and Larry McNellis. Reappoint
them, John? That’s a reappointment of the Council?
MR. WEICHSEL: Yes, all of these are Council appointments.
THE CHAIR: Will someone nominate ---
MR. DE PAOLO: Mr. Chairman, I move for reappointment of Ed Kalat and
Larry McNellis to the Mid Connecticut Workforce Development Board.
MR. RICCIO: Second.
(Motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.)
3. Board of Ethics - 1 member
THE CHAIR: Currently Len Marcheselle, served for three years. He may
serve a second term.
MS. TRIANO: Mr. Chairman, we would like to reappoint Len Marcheselle
to that Board.
MR. SECONDO: Second.
(Motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.)
4. Board of Ethics Alternates - 2 members
THE CHAIR: Currently Jeanne Corrigan and Eric Monte. Both have served
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six consecutive years.
MS. TRIANO: Move to table, Mr. Chairman.
MS. BAKER: Second.
(Motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.)
5. Southington Enterprise & Economic Development Commission - 4
members
THE CHAIR: John, myself as Council Chairman and that’s going to
change obviously in November, and Joe Lombardo. These are set
positions. That’s for three. The other vacancy we don’t have. It’s
one that we haven’t been able to fill. It has to be a business owner
in the enterprise zone. Currently, we do have one business owner in
the enterprise zone, but we need a second.
MR. RICCIO: Is Craig Yarde on that committee?
THE CHAIR: He’s not. But one thing we’re looking at is to whether he
lives in Town. John and I discussed this and ---
MR.RICCIO: He pays taxes in Town.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: To be on our Town Boards, you have to be a resident.
MR. WEICHSEL: He can vote in referenda, but he can’t serve on a
board.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: He can speak in front of you, but he can’t serve on
a board.
THE CHAIR: We have a possibility. But right now –
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: Approve the three and table the one.
MR. RICCIO: Motion to replace or reappoint the Town Manager, Mr.
Weichsel, Council Chairman Ed Malczyk and Mr. Lombardo at this time.
MR. LANDINO: Second.
(Motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.)
THE CHAIR: The one vacancy will still be there. Just list that,
please, John.
6. Tourism District - 1 member
THE CHAIR: Is that Elaine?
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MR. WEICHSEL: That’s Elaine Bedard.
MR. BARRY: I make a motion to reappoint Elaine Bedard to that Board.
MR. DE PAOLO: Second.
(Motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.)
MR.WEICHSEL: I think you are all aware there used to be 11 districts
in the state and now they’ve consolidated and now this person will be
your representative to a larger district.
THE CHAIR: And, that was against our wishes. And, her’s too.
(Motion passed 7 to 1 with Mr. Secondo opposed.)
C. Tax Refunds (Attachment 9)
MR. LANDINO: I make a motion we refund the taxes presented before the
Council this evening.
MS. BAKER: Second.
(Motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.)
X. Miscellaneous
A. Confirmation of 9/22/03 Council Meeting or change to 9/29/03 THE CHAIR: We did the meeting.
The other thing is Tuesday, October 14th, pictures at 7:00 pm is the
request. If anything goes wrong, we still have another meeting for
back up.
MR. SECONDO: Before we adjourn, Mr. Chairman, I’d like to suggest
that the Council send a letter to the Plainville Town Council
expressing our sentiments and sympathy over the loss of their Town
Manager. We’ve always been close with Plainville and I think it would
be a good will gesture if we did that.
EVERYONE: Yes.
THE CHAIR: John did represent us, I believe, at the wake.
MR. WEICHSEL: I conveyed directly to the widow. But, a letter would
be fine.
XI. Adjournment - Executive Session - Real estate, litigation matters
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Mr. Landino made a motion to go into executive session. Mr. Riccio
seconded.
(Motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.)
Whereupon, the meeting was adjourned at 10:20 pm.
A motion was made to go back into public session at 10:22 pm.
MR. WEICHSEL: The press has brilliantly brought to our attention that
the first item we set for referendum. If we did, then that was
incorrect. The $1,750,000.
MS. TRIANO: We just passed the ordinance.
ATTORNEY SCIOTA: The mover can correct her motion saying: to pass the
ordinance, but not set for referendum.
MS. TRIANO: So moved.
MR. RICCIO: Second.
(Motion passed unanimously on a roll call vote.)
MR. WEICHSEL: In your Charter, you are allowed to have an emergency
expenditure whish is understandable up to three percent of your
budget.
Your budget is 90 million dollars, so you can go to three million in
an emergency.
A good example would be the high school. We didn’t go for a
referendum and we spent more than one million dollars.
(Whereupon, the meeting was adjourned at 10:25 o’clock, pm)
ATTEST:
___________________________ Kathy Larkin Assistant Town Clerk
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MINUTES OF EXECUTIVE SESSION
TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
TOWN OF SOUTHINGTON
September 8, 2003
The following Councilpersons were present:
Present: Edward M. Malczyk, Chairman; Mary E. Baker; John N. Barry; William V. DePaolo; Philip G. Landino; Michael A. Riccio; Arthur H. Secondo; and Rev. Victoria Triano. Also Present: John Weichsel, Town Manager; Mark Sciota, Town Attorney; portions: Atty. A. Sheffy and Atty. E. Rosenblatt.
The Executive Session convened at 10:25 p.m.
Several litigation matters were discussed. A real estate matter was discussed. No motions were made and no action was taken.
Upon motion duly made, seconded, and unanimously carried, the Executive Session was adjourned at 10:55 p.m.
____________________________
John Weichsel Acting Clerk
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