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Joel Buchanan Archive of African American History: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/ohfb

AAHP 374 Priscilla Kruize

African American History Project (AAHP) Interviewed by Ryan Morini on April 20, 2015

2 hours, 14 minutes | 62 pages

Samuel Proctor Oral History Program College of Liberal Arts and Sciences Program Director: Dr. Paul Ortiz

241 Pugh Hall PO Box 115215 Gainesville, FL 32611 (352) 392-7168 https://oral.history.ufl.edu

AAHP 374 Interviewee: Priscilla Kruize Interviewer: Ryan Morini Date: April 20, 2015 M: Yeah, it’s going. So this is Ryan Morini with the Sam Proctor Oral History

Program sitting here today in Quincy, Florida in the Black History Museum.

K: Black Heritage.

M: Black Heritage Museum with Ms. Priscilla Stevens Kruize. Would that be—?

K: Mrs. Priscilla Gwendolyn Stevens Kruize.

M: Kruize.

K: It’s a Dutch name.

M: Okay. Okay. And the date is April 20, 2015.

K: And it is 11:36 AM.

M: Good to have that information. Or else sometimes the recordings get confusing.

Okay. Might I ask when you were born?

K: Certainly. I was born here in Quincy, August 18, 1938. I am seventy-six, and I will

be seventy-seven this year. I can hardly believe it myself.

M: You don’t look it.

K: Yeah. Yeah. I will give you a cookie later. [Laughter]

M: Well, thank you.

K: Oh dear.

M: So 1938? Was it a midwife who was there?

K: No.

M: Or a hospital?

K: That is a good question, because that is very significant. This school is called

Stevens, S-T-E-V-E-N-S, High School. It was named after a doctor, Doctor

AAHP 374; Kruize; Page 2

Stevens. He delivered me. On my great-grandparents’ farm, which was eighty

acres out in St. Hebron. Maybe if you have time, we will go out and find it.

M: Yeah, that would be great. You were born at home, but there was a doctor

attending.

K: Yes, yes. A doctor, yes.

M: Was Dr. Stevens a White man or a Black man?

K: Oh, no. Are you kidding? In those days. I think he was probably the first Black

doctor in Quincy. Mmhm. Well, he made an impression, because they named the

school after him. There is the street and the other things named after him. Doctor

Stevens.

M: Do you know much about him as a person?

K: Well, besides my birthday, I had another experience. When I was a toddler, I

remember because it was a sensation, I swallowed some glass. A piece of glass.

I remember being in a car going to the doctor. And I remember him telling me, I

couldn’t describe him or anything, but he calmed me down. Because my mouth

was open. I couldn’t close my mouth. The glass is stuck. He said, “You be very

still, and I am going to give you a peppermint.” That is the first time I had ever

seen a peppermint stick. He gave me a peppermint stick to keep very quiet to get

the glass out of my mouth. And my mother must have been terrified, because I

was always swallowing things. I had swallowed. That may have been the first

things I swallowed, but after that, I swallowed a nickel. Yeah, I was always

putting things in my mouth. And my mother, evidently, was watching, but wasn’t

watching one hundred percent, because I remember being under the house. The


house where I am talking about I can show you. It is just across the street from

here.

M: Okay.

K: I was under the house, and I saw a snake. I think the snake was black with the

eggs, and I was going for the eggs. I guess my mother caught me before I got

there. The times that I can’t remember is that the house I am going to show you

was enclosed with a fence evidently. But there was a hole under the gate,

because the dog had dug a hole. I was small enough to get under that hole. And

the school was just in front of our house, so people were calling me as a child

evidently. And every time I came, and my mother said she would spank me. You

know you can’t spank a toddler. They don’t know why you are spanking them.

Anyways, so I was not at a reasonable age. I was small. And evidently, she

wasn’t watching closely, because I did this several time. Went under the gate,

across the street. Because we didn’t have cars like that. So you didn’t have to

worry about anybody running you over. It is so funny. This is the room I was in

first grade by the way. Seventy years ago. This happened, only God knew this.

And I realized it when I came in here. And it is number thirteen. It is one of my

favorite numbers, too. But at that house that I am going to show you across the

street, make sure you take pictures of it. It was white. It had a fence around it.

And we had an outdoor toilet. I remember that. In fact, I think everybody had

outdoor toilets in those days, because we are talking about seventy years ago

when I was six. My mother and father separated after I completed first grade.

Second grade in Miami, Florida at Phillis Wheatley Elementary School. Then we


came back to Quincy. But not there, but out in the country where my

grandparents lived in St. Hebron, which is a part of Quincy, too. That is where I

was born. Out in St. Hebron.

M: So St. Hebron is kind of a community within Quincy?

K: Yes. Oh, yeah.

M: Do you know much about the founding of St. Hebron?

K: No, but I do know that my great-grandfather, not my grandfather, great-

grandfather was the secretary of our church. Now they have built a new church

out there where I was baptized and where my earlier relatives are buried. They

are all out there in St. Hebron. I don’t know the foundation. But I do have a book

that they gave me that talks about the church, not the community. When the

church was built.

M: Okay. Could I ask your grandparents’ names?

K: Sure, my mother’s father was Richard Allen Powell, P-O-W-E-L-L. And the

grandmother, her mother was Alma, A-L-M-A, E, which I think was Ella, Banks,

B-A-N-K-S. That was her maiden name, Banks.

M: So they owned a farm here or out in St. Hebron?

K: No, that farm was owned by my grandfather’s parents. They retired on eighty

acres of land. My grandfather had a lot of land and gave it to each one of his son.

And the original land is still in the family, which you can also see. From my great-

grandfather. And the original land on my father’s side is still in the family, which

you can see. My father’s grandfather, five generations removed, a full generation

for me, five, was brought to America in 1860. And he gets the oral history. That’s


how he knew. He came here three years before emancipation. He was twenty-

one. He came from Ghana, and I didn’t know that when I went to Ghana. That my

grandfather of five generations came from Ghana. But his name, he never

changed his name. The first name may have been Americanized. It’s Isaac. But

the last part, Goldwire, is the same as in Africa. In Ghana, it’s Goldwire. So he

said his name was Isaac Goldwire. And it is possible that he could have had a

Christian name, because Christians were in Ghana at that time. 1860. Or maybe

somebody just didn’t understand what he was saying what his name was. But the

Goldwire they got. So all the Goldwires in Quincy are my relatives.

M: Wow.

K: They are all over the United States now. There is a book on them I have

someplace in Miami, I guess.

M: Not a lot of people can take their family history that far.

K: But I have always been interested. I was born interested in the older people. That

is a thing that I love being around older people listening to their stories. I wish I

could record everything that they have told me. But you know, the tape recorder

didn’t exist then. When they did, you didn’t have one. My grandmother used to

tell me all kind of stories. All the old people used to tell stories. Now I am old

telling stories. [Laughter] Oh dear.

M: That is how that knowledge gets passed on.

K: Every time someone dies, a library dies. A library is lost. Did you ever read that

before?

M: Oh, yeah.


K: Every time someone dies, a library. But one thing I discovered that doesn’t

matter how people confuse they are, they still remember God. No matter how

confused someone is, this is just my personal experience. You talk to them. They

still know God is. So God takes all the nonsense the way he leaves himself there.

Which makes sense.

M: That does.

K: Yeah.

M: So do you know anything else about what Isaac Goldwire talked about? Do you

know why he came to Quincy?

K: He was brought here. He had thirty-three children, and I met two of them. I

interviewed them actually, and they gave me the history of the family. He gave it

to them. His oldest daughter. I didn’t find out about my father’s people until I was

an adult. I just knew my mother’s people. I knew my father. I knew of his father,

but I didn’t talk to the people on his mother’s side. My father’s mother’s people.

Goldwire. Palmers. What my grandfather of five generations said that he did not

change his name. He had all these children. He was prejudiced himself, too,

because my aunt talked to me. She said, “He didn’t like me, because I was

Black.” That is what she said to me. She is ninety-seven. She said, “But I didn’t

pay him any mind. I told him my mind, because I was just like him,” she said. She

said, “She told him off when she was eight years old.” She told him evidently that

he shouldn’t talk to her the way he did. That’s what she said about him. She said,

“He didn’t like me, because I was Black.” That is what she said. But her sister

was next to her. When I met these two sisters, one was ninety-seven and one


was eighty-nine or ninety. And the one ninety-seven was very talkative. She said,

“God let me live to tell you this story.” When I heard about and I met her, I met

her at a funeral of her niece, I think, in Vero Beach, Florida. Then I followed her.

She lived in Eatonville, Florida. So I went to visit her during the Thanksgiving

after I met her. And I was very nervous. I tape recorded her, and I listened to it

for many, many, many times. She always said “You have to have a system. You

just can’t go through life. You have to have a system.” And I worried about not

sleeping, and I asked about it. She said, don’t worry about that. I never slept. She

said, I am not a sleeper either, and some days I didn’t sleep at all. It’s the same

with me. I don’t sleep. I couldn’t. I never wanted to miss anything in life. We went

on long trips. Everybody in the car would be asleep but the driver and me. I

would be awake. I didn’t want to miss everything. And I would just, wake up,

wake up. Look at this, look at this. Nobody was interested. They were sleeping.

She told me not to worry about not being asleep and to always have a system.

She was very strong. She walked from Quincy, Florida all the way to West Palm

Beach. That is what they did. You had to walk. If you were a poor person, and

many, many Blacks were poor, they could not have a horse or a donkey,

anything. The only way they could move was to walk. That’s what she told me.

She walked from Quincy all the way to South Florida. Whether it was Palm

Beach or Rivera, I don’t remember. I have the notes. Somewhere I have the

tape, but I don’t know where it is. I used to keep it in my van. My van was

repossessed at one time. I have gone through many things with this museum. So

I don’t know where it is. One of these days I can find. She was fantastic.


M: Sounds like it.

K: Oh, man. She was. And what I did, I met her, I think, after Hurricane Andrew.

And what I did is I went around the world in ten days. While I was around the

world, while I was in India, she died. But she called me, and a person like that,

they don’t call you. And she called me. And unfortunately, I wiped that away. You

know, just not having good sense. Her voice. But I have her voice on tape

somewhere. But she wanted to know where was I and why hadn’t I seen her.

She died. She was ninety-seven. So while I was in India, she died. But she

turned her sister over to me. I didn’t want to focus on her sister, because she

wasn’t as talkative and she had memory. I thought, you know, but in the end, she

turned out. She knew and I taped her. When she was ninety-one, I think she was

ninety-one. I am not sure. I came to a birthday, but I didn’t sleep at all. And I

drove all the way from Miami to Eatonville, which is near Orlando. But the night I

saw, I can remember my thinking, my mother was with me, my son, his wife, my

girlfriend, and I. We were five people. I paid five-hundred dollars. A hundred

dollars for each person to see Winnie Mandela. And the Winnie Mandela was

there at the invitation of somebody I knew in the arts, the culture. She didn’t tell

me. I was so hurt. I remember thinking, I was at the last table in the room, the

very back. And there I spent all this money to see Winnie Mandela, and I knew

these people, and they didn’t tell me. I was feeling so bad. And I took the

bouquet of yellow roses off the table with me to take to my cousin for a birthday. I

drove all the way from that affair with Winnie Mandela. I drove all the way to

Eatonville. And I wasn’t sleeping or anything. Sometimes I do get sleepy, but I


wasn’t sleepy, because I was so upset. But when I got there, I remember she

didn’t want to do anything. Yeah, she was ninety-one. Because when she was

ninety, we did a lot of things. This year, this time, she didn’t want to do anything.

She said, “No, I just want to sit here.” So we sat on the porch. She sat on a sofa,

and I sat on a sofa. Then I began to give her turn. She said, “Okay, let’s rest.” So

we would sleep. Somebody would come and wake us up. Celebrate the birthday

when we wake up. We did that all day. Sleeping and getting up. She had ordered

special food for me. It was her birthday. She loved collard greens and cornbread,

so she ordered that for me. She said I was too tired. I should not try to leave that

day. I should spend the night. That was my first time spending the night. And she

insisted I sleep in her room. I said, “No, I don’t want to do that.” She did. And she

took some good artifacts from her dresser, and she gave them to me. Nobody

saw her do that. And I slept on the sofa. I didn’t sleep in the bed. Then so when I

was getting up the next day, she was sitting on the sofa. I took her picture. She

was angry with me. She said, “No, I don’t have my hair done. I don’t have my

clothes, nothing. Don’t take my picture.” I said, “I am taking it anyway.” I took her

picture. She died within hours after that. So I blew a picture of them. I put it in

here. That thing. Yeah, she died within hours. I was going to Ormond Beach,

Florida. So I was Eatonville, then I would go through Orlando, then Ormond

Beach, Florida. It is near Daytona. They called me telling me she was dead. I

made her funeral. I talked at her funeral and everything. She gave me something,

and there was something else that went with it. When I went to the house, they

gave me that other thing, and I didn’t know how they knew that she had given me


something. But they knew. So they gave me the third piece. It was a little cobalt

blue set. I have a blue corner in this museum. But that was the end of the

Goldwires. She was the last of her generation. There were three of them alive

when I found out about them. But the brother had died in a fire. They had ninety-

seven, ninety-five, and ninety. And I interviewed some of the children. One

daughter of Aunt Pea. She was called the one that just died. Died last. She was

called Aunt Pea. Her daughter is still alive and still in the same house where she

died. So I meant to go see her this trip when I came up, but I didn’t make it.

Maybe when I go back, I will do it. But I recorded them. The histories as they

knew it. My Aunt Mamie is her name. Aunt Mamie, she said, “God let me live to

tell you.” What I was about to tell you and I forgot, during the interview, we had

many interruptions. The telephone people coming to the door. And I was always

a little bit nervous, because she would not remember. She never missed a beat.

Never missed a beat. She knew exactly where left off. She is fantastic. And she

cooked for me, but I couldn’t eat her food. She was ninety-seven, and she

cooked collard greens. But the collard greens, she must have put something

wrong in them. I don’t know, but I just could not eat them. And I took a friend with

me, so he was sleeping while I was recording. She was a character. As I said, I

used to live in Europe. I came especially back to America in 1976 to record all of

the elders of my family in Quincy. I came to Quincy. But unfortunately, somebody

came to visit my mother in Miami, and my mother threw them on us. And those

people interfered with the interviews so tremendously. And they drank. Oh, it was

terrible. It was a horrible thing. And I left my son behind. He didn’t even come


with me to Quincy. He stayed with my mother. It was one of the things I

regretted, because I never had the opportunity again. Three elders were alive.

My Uncle Doc who was my great-grandmother’s brother. My Uncle Eddie who is

my uncle for four generations. His brother and the sister of my grandfather.

Those three people were alive, and they all died within a matter of, I don’t think

years, I think months. Because they were very old. This was [19]76. And then

[19]77, I moved back to America. I didn’t know that I was going to do that. My

husband, my son, and I were in Korea, and we should have gone straight back to

Europe. But something told me I needed to come back to Quincy to interview my

family before I went back to Europe. So I asked my husband to deviate. We

would go through America instead of flying straight to Europe. And he protested.

He didn’t want to it. He did it. Maybe it is okay. Maybe I got what I needed to get

from them, because, as you know, God is always in charge. I wanted to go

differently. I really wanted to concentrate on my uncles. All these relatives. These

were relatives, too. And they were relatives to people. They were socializing, and

you know, you missed the whole thing. What I wanted to do. It was what they

wanted to do. She was the relative. The husband was just there. My husband

was just there, too. And I never had that opportunity again.

M: Having any piece of that opportunity is already quite a feat.

K: I don’t know where their tape is either. Because so much has happened since

then. Hurricane Andrew really caused a big change in me, because I used to be

a fanatic for order. In fact, so much so that I would keep one space out of order. I

mean on purpose. Just to organize. But after Hurricane Andrew, I had no control


of absolutely nothing. So I had to let go. I haven’t been able to come back to the

person I was before Hurricane Andrew. There are some parts of it. And I used to

be very critical of people who let things go. And my sister Nian turned out to be

very neat, but in the beginning, she was horrible. We were as different as day

and night. But in her end, she recorded everything. Where everything was and is.

Oh, wow. And my brother, too. But now, I have been praying, because I have

collected so much. You have no idea. This is not even one percent of what I have

collected. And I have collected this in one year. What you see now is mostly just

one year of collecting. I brought a few things up here, but mostly it is a one year

collecting. One year. So we are talking about since 1969 I have collected. I have

like a hundred vaults of artifacts. In fact, some people from Nigeria are supposed

to come and get some of the artifacts, because they were stolen. And they were

donated to the museum. They are terra-cottas, and I have agreed to give them

back. They are worth over five million dollars. They are five thousand years old.

They were found in tombs when they were looking for tin and gold in Nigeria.

They found these tombs. And these are from the rich and the royalty. Old people,

like today, have nothing. It has always been the same. Like God says, “The poor

will always be with you.” The people who really reserve their heritage, because

they can, are the rich people in the old days. You think of the Egyptians. You

think of the Greeks. You think of anybody who had power and money. They

preserved. They still haven’t found everything. I think there are some places in

the Philippines. Or some place that man has not seen yet. There are some

places in the world that have not been invaded. People don’t know about each


other. And then we have outer space, too. I don’t know about that. But they say

that outer space was here in Mexico, and some of the other places where they

can’t understand our man. In Egypt, how man could have done all of that? We

think we know everything. We think our knowledge is advanced compared to

yesterday’s knowledge. But it could be that yesterday’s knowledge was more

advanced than ours, and we are starting over. It could be. I mean who is to say.

They find tombs made of iron. I mean, oh, many, many years ago. And what has

happened with the arrogancy of people, feeling our superiority. It has done a lot

of damage to the world. A lot of damage trying to make the same. God didn’t

mean for us to be the same. Even our fingertips are not the same. I think it is

wonderful when you can appreciate. I have been all over the world many times. I

don’t even know how many times. I have lived on three continents. And I have

been to all six of the seven continents. I have been to six of the seven. I have

been to Australia twice. I have just been really, really blessed. And I thought, in

my arrogancy, that I would never come back to Quincy. I can’t believe it. I have

the best time in Quincy of all the places I have lived and been. And I thought no

place would be Ghana. They built me a museum in Ghana. A museum and a

library as big as this building. And they are waiting for me to bring the artifacts.

But the initial contract of the agreement was the government was to bring the

artifacts. It cost about eighty or a hundred thousand dollars to move the artifacts

to Ghana, which I don’t have. But I was there 2013. The museum was still empty

waiting for me. I said to one of the ladies who-a person at the museum who had

been there for twenty years. The museum is on the Du Bois Campus. W.E.B Du


Bois, he lived there and then later they made it a museum. Later, they built my

museum, the Black Heritage Museum, there. I was there 2013, and I asked the

lady, “I would like the see the museum,” the Black Heritage Museum. She said,

“Oh, no. You can’t. That is for Mrs. Kruize.” I said, “I am Mrs. Kruize.” [Laughter]

So as of 2013, I tried to see the president. When I got there, I went for a funeral

initially. The funeral took three weeks. But I focused on the funeral for the first

three weeks I was there. The second three weeks, I tried to see the president.

But during my stay there, I was on the telephone with the secretary of the

president, Mills. Atta Mills. When he was actually dying. So while I was there,

they had the whole new thing of the vice-president becoming the president. So

that was almost an impossible situation to try to see the newly installed president.

But then my-. But I tried. I went to the office. I went to the palace. I pulled all

kinds of strings. He was just too busy. Then I went to see the director of the

Cultural Director of Ghana. And he was saying they had not been paid. He knew

they were not bringing artifacts to Ghana, because his staff hadn’t been paid

proper. So don’t be thinking about paying for artifacts, so that is where I left it. In

being in Ghana, because I have been going to Ghana since [19]63, I realized, the

reason why I really decided to stay here, because I was very anti-American, I

was going to leave America. This is a horrible country. But I saw that our children

needed to have some self-esteem, and the self-esteem comes from your culture.

Knowing who you are and feeling good about yourself. So this is my contribution.

I love doing it, and it doesn’t give me the stress that I had when I was in civil

rights. Civil rights came in, and, oh, sir, I lost my hair. I mean it was really


horrible, and I was hateful. I had such hate in my heart for people who were so

horrible. But now I had to replace the hate with love. You have to love everybody.

Love the good or bad. But I still haven’t got to the children. I am trying to adopt a

little school. It is called Alternative School. They have nineteen children. They

cannot go to any other school. Behavior, emotional, whatever. So those are the

children I am focusing on. In February alone, I spoke to over five hundred

children, and I never told one story the same. I gave the same information, but I

didn’t tell it the same. I can’t do it. I won’t do it, because it would drive me crazy

to say the same thing over and over the same way. So I felt really good about

that. Yes. I felt really good about that. I had a whole school come through here.

They came two classes at a time. Then I went to a school. I went to three other

schools. And from nine to three, the entire school, they were coming two classes

or three classes at a time. Different levels, so you had to tell them different ways

anyway. And I had to have a feeling of how to communicate. When my sister and

I were released from jail, CORE had us talk throughout the United States. I

always had to feel—first I would write a speech. I realized that doesn’t work.

Because, first of all, if I look one here, and I lost heart. I couldn’t do it. So I just

decided to just do it from my heart, because I knew what the things were. So that

is what we did. But every audience had a personality, and you spoke to that

personality. That is how it was. Sometimes you ask them to ask a question first.

Then based on that question, you speak. Because there is so much in the world.

I am seventy-six years old, and my brain has been active ever since I was three.

Knowing and doing of all things and getting into things. The labels they put on


children who are very curious is really horrible. I have a son. I think he still has a

photographic memory. But when he was little, he didn’t need to do anything more

than one time. He knew how to do it. So he thinks everybody else is ignorant and

stupid. Why don’t you understand that? He told me when he was three, he said,

mom- No, I will tell you something he told me when he was two. My field was

early childhood development. He said to my husband and I, we were evidently

reprimanding him about something, he said, “I will cut you up in little pieces and

flush you down the toilet.” We recorded this. We couldn’t believe this two year old

could say. That is a deep concept for a two year old. So it scared me. Everything

I knew about children, they were not able to do that. Then when he was three,

like I am the child, “You don’t need to call him daddy anymore. I know he is my

daddy.” You know how parents call each other mother. See, you don’t need to do

that anymore. [Laughter] I couldn’t believe it. I said, oh, my God. And he was

always listening. My husband and I would be talking about something. When you

have one child, you forget that there is a child there. So we was talking about the

neighbor, and that same neighbor came to babysit, so he must have been about

three. “Why are you so nosy? My momma said you are the nosiest person on the

block.” [Laughter] Lord. I wasn’t going to live that down. Oh, my God. Oh, Jesus.

I am telling you. He did. When my husband’s ship would come into port, we

would have pallets. And we were all over the world. In Asia and everything. He

looked up. I know he was like four. He said, “Why do you Chinese people eat rice

all the time?” I wanted to kill that child. You don’t ask people. People do what

they want to do. We talked to him that like that. How he would still come up and


ask, “Why do y’all eat rice all the time?? Oh, my God I was so embarrassed. Oh,

that child, that child, that child. Oh, my God. He was a character, too, to bring up.

Trust me.

M: It sounds that way.

K: Oh, my God.

M: So you were surprised you liked coming back to Quincy? What was Quincy like

growing up? What was your experience here?

K: I didn’t grow up here. My mother took me away when I was like—I must have

finished sixth grade, so between seventh and eighth. When we came back to

Quincy, we spent a year in Miami, we went out to St. Hebron, which is not in the

town area. It is very different. You see somebody?

M: Just the cops. Keep going, yeah.

K: Yeah, they are my friends.

M: Oh, yeah?

K: Yeah, I have three times inmates here to help me.

M: Oh, okay.

K: Oh, yeah. They may come. They promise to come anyway. That is one thing I

loved about living in Africa. It doesn’t matter how much you know and how little

you know, it is appreciated. Although I haven’t gotten that kind of appreciation

here, but I know it is needed. Not only for children but for grown-ups, too. I spoke

to a relative, and she told me she didn’t care nothing about Africa and nothing

about there. She wasn’t going to do nothing. Oh, it just hurt me. I was so

devastated. Probably, if I could, I would have left then and gone back and have a


life. But, you know, that is one of the challenges of it. It is just not for children. It’s

for everybody. Because the only time you can have peace and harmony is that

everybody has to have a level of peace and harmony. You can’t have peace

unless peace, because I am going to disturb your peace. You know? Especially if

you are in my space. And people don’t seem to realize that. I think maybe some

people are now. I don’t know. But a lot of that hate is still around. You can see it.

It comes up at different times. And that my sister died, I can’t believe that. When I

finally got her, because the last things you ever know. “Girl, Quincy? Why are

you here?” And her husband is here now, too. He was going back and forth to

Atlanta and staying more in Atlanta than Quincy. Now he is staying. In fact, I still

have to call him and let him know you were here. Maybe he will still come. I did

tell him, but he is so forgetful. He says, “I am eighty.” [Laughter] He uses that as

an excuse. I say you should be like wine. Get better. My brain better get better. I

better start using some parts of my brains that I didn’t use. Somebody sold me

this for twenty dollars. Can you believe that?

M: The Obama?

K: Yeah, that’s ridiculous. That is what they do with Black heritage things, too. They

make you pay. Yeah, all my money. I never have money. I went to church

yesterday. Two churches, couldn’t put a penny. Didn’t have a penny. Well, I

would have been ashamed to put a penny. I think I found a couple of pennies

somewhere. Because I spend every penny I get. I spend it on the museum. You

may not be able to see it, but I do.

M: No, I can see it. This is a lot to acquire.


K: In a year. See that picture behind you? The horses? I am into horses now. I

collect horses. Don’t ask me why. I don’t know. But they are in the bible. When I

was Ghana in 2013, I know a coffin-maker. Have you ever seen those coffins

from Ghana? They are made like a fish or a boat, and people actually buried in

them. Well, I know one of these coffin-makers, and I got him to do the little

miniature. Well, there is one right behind you he made. But this one is made for

ashes. I had him make this for ashes. I had him make two. I am a Leo, and I

collect turtles. He made the most beautiful turtle. Oh, gosh. This is not as

beautiful as the turtle, but this an actual coffin for ashes. And I was going to sell

it. Never did. So I just keep it.

M: That is really nice.

K: And that’s something I put the dolls in. But I couldn’t just put one doll in there and

make them fear. I don’t want to frighten anybody. This is a musical instrument I

brought. I just learned about in Ghana. I don’t know if I can do it or not. I better

have to feel it. [Plays instrument] Yeah, that’s it. It makes music, and I can make

music. You can make a lot of music with it. Love the musical instruments. I had a

wonderful time in Ghana. I tell you. I went there twenty-four. It was just gorgeous.

Gorgeous. So that’s a coffin. There is so many things. I have all kinds of tapes for

the children to see. You can have movie. They have all kinds of plans for the

children when I can get them to come here. I have only been back two weeks,

and the first week, I told them I had to leave. It told them I was so devastated

about that. So that worked out.

M: Thankfully.


K: But it was quite a—

M: That’s a hassle.

K: Trust me.

M: To say the least.

K: I decided. I was shocked, hurt in the beginning, but then I had to get over it,

because I had to get over it or everything would just be at a standstill. You can’t

do that. It is like death, because you die a little with disappointments. It’s like

death. So you have to readjust so you can keep going. If you don’t readjust, you

regress. If you don’t learn the art of living, you die. At seventy-six, you can say,

“Well, okay. Why should I do this? I just got a car at seventy-five.” That car, you

see.

M: Oh, yeah.

K: I couldn’t believe it. I was just going to see if they had a car there. The possibility.

Their people wrote me in so fast. I had the car within twenty-four hours. A 2013, I

told you thirteen was one of my favorite numbers. I couldn’t believe it. They did

everything. They got the insurance for me. I didn’t have worry about a thing. I

said, “My goodness.” Then I drove. That was scary. I drove here. That was the

first time since 2006 that I had driven. From Quincy to Miami. 2006. Since then, I

had had a stroke. And I still have things with the stroke in my hand, because a

hand feels like there is sand in it. I have diabetes. I am working on that. I am

going to get rid of all those pills. But when I drove back the first time, this new

car, the girl gave me one of the—what do you call it? G-P-something. Where it

tells you—


M: GPS?

K: It told me the wrong thing. I was so mad. I’ve had to use my own head. I can’t be

bothered with this thing. But anyway, as soon as I got from Dade County to

Broward, my hand started doing this. So I thought maybe the stroke was coming

back. I said, “Oh, my God.” God had me praying all the way. So I didn’t stop. I

kept pushing myself. Okay, no. I kept doing that. You don’t know what energy

you are using, because you are so stressful. And each time I take the hand

down, I would be so tight, because I was so nervous driving. I had never driven

since 2006. So when I got to—I don’t know where it was, but it was some rest

stop. It wasn’t far from Orlando. I stopped at the rest stop, and I was getting

ready to get out of the car, and I couldn’t move. And somebody was looking at

me. Luckily, it was the person in charge of the plaza. He said, “Ma’am, are you

okay?” I said, “I don’t know. I can’t move.” So he and another man came, and

they helped me. And he asked me what was going on. I said, “I don’t know. I am

just driving.” He said, “Well, you probably have poor circulation. Drink some

water.” And I drank. He said, “Drink three things of water”. So I drank some

water. I got better. I started driving again. I got on Orange. Somewhere near

Orlando. And I felt something happening in my legs. I said, “Oh, God.” It is just

my mind, you know. So I said, oh. I pulled off the road. I saw a patrolman off of

the side, so I said “Oh, I am going to stop. Then maybe he will see me and

come.” He didn’t come. There was not much shoulder. It was all grass. It was not

really a place to pull off. So I called 9-1-1. They got there within ten minutes, and

they offered to take me to the hospital. But I told them, “Let me just walk around


the car. See if I can move in there.” Because I was determined to get to Quincy. I

left at seven o’clock in the morning, Miami. I didn’t get here until ten, almost

eleven, because I had stopped so many times. But this time, coming back, I tried

to be smart. I drove from Miami to Palm Beach, and I spent the night. Had lunch

with a friend. Breakfast with a friend. Then I drove from Palm Beach to Deland,

where I had a friend. And I spent many hours with him. He is ninety-two in bed.

And he just screamed. He was so happy. He was so happy to see me. I should

show you his picture. He was screaming, Lord. Because he said, God gave him

eighteen years to live, and he has outlived those eighteen years. So I was

scared. I thought I better come and see him. And then I started out at five o’clock

coming there, and they told me it was three hours from here, from there. And that

was a lie. I didn’t get here until almost twelve o’clock. These people lie to me all

the time. “Don’t worry. You will be there in no time.” My sister insists, I have

another sister on my father’s side, she insisted I get this thing. And I don’t know

this from Adam. Oh, I guess I have to read the book, but I tried reading the book,

but I couldn’t do better by reading it. I don’t know. Let’s see. But I will tell you one

thing. Every time I do it, it takes pictures by itself. I am not even nowhere near

the camera, and it is taking pictures. I am going to take yours since it’s there. It

goes by itself. I am telling you. Yeah. Now I am trying to share the pictures of the

person. What do you do is take them. Okay. I know, I have to go to gallery. I

know what I have to do. These new things. And I recorded him, my grandson. I

have these adopted children.

M: Oh, nice.


K: Mmhm. I can—Picasa. What does that mean? I really should read the book, you

know. I tried it. It didn’t work out, my reading it. See if you can get the gallery.

M: Sure.

K: You young people, you know how to do that.

M: I will take a look. I will see if I can.

K: I don’t know what kind of phone that is. I rather the old-fashion one, which I have.

M: I think this is.

K: Yeah, there is the gallery. Okay. A lot of pictures there of nothing.

M: It happens.

K: There is a picture in there. I don’t see how it got in there. There is a lady in there.

Good Lord. A lot of blank scenes. I guess that is my purple dress. I am trying to

get this old man. Oh, here he is. Here he is. He can talk. But they have the little

party. Oh, no. That is somebody else. It is so frustrating. Oh, yeah. This is.

[Plays video recording from phone]

K: He interrogated me twice. The first time in [19]75. That’s his daughter. He is in a

Beetle. Get his hands. Got some food for him. See, I didn’t know I was doing all

of this. I can see his hands. He is from Jersey. He is ninety-two.

M: Wow.

K: He looks like one of those zapper. Zapper of Phi Phi Phi. He told me to put

perfume of my knees. He told me that. When you lose somebody. I used to talk

to him all the time. Now he is inside. He lives with his daughter. There’s a whole

room clear. Just him and his bed. [Laughter] Now that was special. Then I left his

house after many hours, and the sun was in my face, and I had to pray so hard.


Because there is no way to get off the road. I didn’t know how people could drive,

and they were driving so fast. Right in my face. I mean it was bright in my face.

The thing that you pull down, what do you call that?

M: Oh, like the visor?

K: Visor. It didn’t cover. They don’t make those things deep enough.

M: Yeah, sometimes they don’t.

K: No, they should have it so that you can pull it down like a shade. Oh, I was so

scared. I had to pray. And it was on a road that you couldn’t pass. They have just

a little section where you can pass, you know.

M: Oh, one of those. Yeah.

K: And the window was so dirty, it looked like it cracked. It was so dirty. So spotty.

And I didn’t dare try to use the windshield wiper to clean it. I was trying to

concentrate on driving. So it took me from five o’clock to ten. It took me five

hours. They told me three hours. I could go back and choke those people.

[Laughter] Oh, God. I tell you. But I accomplished my mission. After I got here

Wednesday morning, Thursday morning there is a lady when she came through

the door. She said, “Oh.” Very calm. She said, “You have to be out here in twelve

days,” and I look. Now, you think this is likely in my hotel room. It is almost as

bad. It is like a museum in my motel room. They have so many books and

pictures. Let me show you some of the newspaper articles they have done. Sit

right there. I will bring them to you. They have done a couple of stories on us

here, and it is really nice. I don’t know if I will be able to give you a couple of


them to have. Maybe. I am not sure. Yeah, one I can give you. She is coming

here, too. She told me today.

M: Okay.

K: This one you can have. This one I have extra copies. About the museum.

M: Oh, wow.

K: Now these I will share with you. I have them. This is the second story they just

done. No, this is the first story, and this is the second story, and this is the third

story where I was actually in the college. Tallahassee Community College.

M: Oh, okay.

K: So this is number one, but that one you can have.

M: Okay. Well, thank you.

K: These you can just look at. You know, I should give you something.

M: Hmm?

K: To drink or eat or something.

M: I am okay for now. If you get thirsty, we can.

K: I have nuts I wanted. When I get this whole place, I am going to make each room

a different color.

M: Yeah, no. It will look really—I mean this building is actually really—

K: Really nice.

M: It is an interesting design. Kind of that big hallway. The long hallway. Yeah. Do

you remember it well from when you were—

K: No.

M: Actually going to school here.


K: And I went here twice. I was here in first grade here, and on the other side, I was

in fifth grade.

M: Okay.

K: So when we came back, we lived out in St. Hebron. I went out there third and

fourth, and when I got to fifth grade, we took the bus over here. But I just know

that it was on that side. That is all. And I remember the teacher. She was a kind

of heavy-set teacher. And believe it or not, that teacher was married to the

man—I am going to take you to a woman’s house. She was his last wife. He

divorced my teacher and married this lady. So you are going to see.

M: Okay. So did you have to come here from St. Hebron, because the school didn’t

go any higher than fourth grade?

K: Right. Right. Right. They had a two room school house. It doesn’t exist anymore.

It was called Pine Grove. Out in St. Hebron. That H-E-B-R-O-N, St. Hebron. And

what happened is that had two teachers in the whole school. Your bag is behind

you. Your bag is right there. Is that your paper?

M: Oh, no, no. This is what I am just putting down.

K: Oh, just put it down anywhere. It doesn’t matter. I don’t remember the bus ride at

all. And I was in fifth grade. You would think I would I remember, but I don’t.

M: Well, hey. I mean it happens. So you were at a two-room school house in—

K: In St. Hebron.

M: Okay.

K: Pine Grove.

M: So why did you move out to St. Hebron from—?


K: Because my granddaddy. We stayed first with my grandfather who lived out

there. Then my mother rented a house. Then my grandmother kept us while my

mother worked in Miami.

M: Okay. Okay. What was your mother doing for work?

K: She was working on Miami Beach decorating windows.

M: Okay.

K: Yeah, she was very artistic, my mom.

M: Did she like that work?

K: Yeah. Yeah. Mmhm. I don’t think she ever worked as a maid. She was very

pretty. I have a picture of my mom. I made a recording of her. I have to see if I

have it here.

M: What was her name?

K: Lottie, L-O-T-T-I-E. Lottie Mae Powell, P-O-W-E-L-L, Stevens.

M: So she was from here in Quincy?

K: Yeah, she was born in Quincy.

M: Deep roots going back here.

K: Oh, yeah. Five, six, seven, eight generations. Yeah, Quincy. On my father’s side.

My father goes back—four generations, I guess. Because his grandfather came

from Africa. And that aunt, that is something she told me about that. I never knew

nothing about my father. But it is from his mother’s point-of-view not from his

father. Because his father was a man who worked in the factory. He was a

foreman. He impregnated every other woman in the whole factory. He has

children all over. All different mothers. He is still one living child, and she lives


here in Quincy. Josephine, she was from another mother. But people from my

father’s mother, it’s where the African Gore came from. She was his child or

grandchild and the Palmers. They all have one grandfather. There is several

families, the Palmers, the Stevens, and some other name—Goldwire was the

main one.

M: There may be no connection; in Levy County, they talk about a Jerry Goldwire

they say freed all the slaves in that area.

K: A White man?

M: No, Black. They say he was a Black soldier who came to Levy County to free the

slaves.

K: From where? He was my relative, because the Goldwire came from Africa. That

is the name they came from Africa. That had to be a relative. The Goldwires,

have you ever heard that name before?

M: A couple of times. I have heard it in Levy County and in Ocala.

K: Was it all-Black though?

M: Yup.

K: Oh, yeah. Yeah, then it is all one family, because we are all over America. Oh,

yeah. There’s a little book with all the names. I left it in Miami somewhere. Oh,

yeah. That is all one family, the Goldwire. Never changed his name. And he had

thirty-three children, and you can imagine how many children they had. Aunt

Peake had twenty to the lady that died. After I left her, she had twenty-two

children, and I have met two or three of them. They are mostly all dead, too. The

youngest one, she is probably in her seventies. See, I am an old woman, myself.


If I knew all these people when I was younger, they are really old. I mean they

are gone; most of them. My grandparents are gone. My parents are gone. My

sister is gone. My mother had three, and of her three, one is gone. She was the

middle child. I am the oldest. I was my mother’s oldest child.

M: Just a kind of stray question, but a lot of people would expect this to be. I slipped

up and forgot when I started the recording. A Black history museum, but you

when with the word heritage. I was wondering if there is any particular

significance.

K: No, but heritage, it’s our heritage. Black heritage, which includes—I prefer the

word heritage. I remember a gentleman wanted me to have it African. I said, no,

because we need to start with what the weakest link of the strongest ivory. I want

to say that but people have the fear of the “Blackness.” So I thought I want to

bring this up in a very prominent position. Black. Not Negro. Not colored. Not

Afro-American. But black, which has many of the world. Not all Africans are

Black, but there are many Black people of the world. Those are the ones that I

want to incorporate into this museum and to represent the Black people of the

world. Because colored people of the world make up seventy-five percent of the

world. White people make up the minority of the world. Most people of the world

are colored. The red, the yellow, the brown, the blacks. You know there is a

theory about that, don’t you? Have you ever heard the theory how we got to be

different colors?

M: I have heard different ones. I am not sure which one—


K: You know they say God was cooking. The first batch he put in, they didn’t come

out right. They were raw, undercooked. That was the Whites. Then he did it

again, and they got a little warmth. Not really raw, a little bit off raw. That was the

yellow ones or the red ones. I don’t when the red ones came in. Between the

white, the red, and the yellow. When they got to the brown, it was getting almost

perfect. Then he let it slip, and they burnt, and that was the Black. But actually,

scientifically, the first people were Black from Africa. They have already proven

that. One theory is as the Black people and the continents ripped together, as the

black people walked across the globe, the earth, their skin, eyes, hair, everything

changed, because the sun changed. You know, in Norway and Russia, it is six

months dark, six months light. There is a joke, too, about the Black man. Why he

had kinky hair? So when he was running through the jungle, his hair wouldn’t get

entangled. Do you think God know, “Don’t you know I’m in Chicago? There is no

jungle.” [Laughter] That is a joke from my childhood. I remember that. Well,

maybe from my adulthood. I don’t remember. Seeing the Michelangelo,

somebody got him to do all the painting, but he used models from Northern Italy

with the light hair and the blue eyes. But the Italians, the real Southern Italians,

are not White. They are not pure White. They are darker people. The Spanish

are darker, and then the Moors occupied Europe for eighty year. Holland, they

were for eighty years in Holland. The Black Moors. So they mingled. So people

that are far away from the sun and the equator are the lightest. Then you start

travelling and mixing, staying with your kind and mixing, staying with your kind

and mixing. And the mixing ones are the most beautiful ones to me. People who


are mixed are the most beautiful ones. But I used to tell my children when I was

teaching, that the mother and father of all mankind are Black, and their children

travelled. They travelled to the East. They travelled to the West. Travelled to

South shore. Everywhere they travelled. So all the people of the world, you are

related to those. Your brothers and your sisters over there, doesn’t matter what

color they are. You are all related to one family. From the Bible’s point of view,

biblical, that’s true. We are all one family. God made Adam, then he made Eve.

And if you believe in the Bible, there is just two people. And from those two

people. But then you say, now, God, you got two people, and all of a sudden,

then you have more people. Were there other people? You made other people

somewhere. So I don’t know. I guess we will never know about that. But anyway,

it is safer to believe that you are taught. That is a comfort. Not all people are

taught the same. And usually, it takes a very strong person to deviate or to

change the way they have been brought up. You can change hate to love now. I

am not saying that, but there are some people who believe anything you touch

with the left hand is wrong. I don’t care how much you learn about something,

you still don’t want to touch anything to their hand. And there are some people

who believe—I mean they just have different ideas about people. But with the

education and science, things can be different. Now this man had a White

mother. And a Black African father, but he considers himself a Black man. But he

is as much White as he is Black. Yeah. I don’t know how you can say he acts. I

don’t know. Hmm, I don’t know. Do you want to stand up and walk around? Are

your legs sleeping on you?


M: I’m okay for now.

K: Okay.

M: Yeah, maybe in a little bit. Well, see, you have a lot of—I mean you have

travelled obviously. You feel a connection, I guess, to the Diaspora or a lot of-.

K: To the world actually, because I have made friends. Everywhere I have ever

gone, I have made friends. Whether I knew the language or the culture, it never

matters. Always made friends. So I know that you can be friendly and loving to

everybody, whether you speak the same language or not.

M: So did you have a sense of that as you were growing up? Did you have an

interest in Africa or Europe or travelling or was that-?

K: When I was about somewhere under sixteen, I wrote a blueprint for my life. And

in that blueprint was to finish high school, to go to college, go around the world,

get a Ph.D., get married, have a son and a daughter. Now my world, at that time,

was Africa, the continent of Africa, was Japan and India. I don’t know why I

chose those two places. Must have been something in my childhood that I saw.

Maybe on television or heard. I have no idea. Or read. I don’t know why, but I

know Africa, because there are so many misconcepts, and I knew that things

were not like what they said. People try too hard to convince you. I knew I had to

see for myself. So I had the countries, and then I had the continent. And I have

done it. I didn’t have a daughter, but I have a granddaughter. And I have many

adopted children. Good Lord, I don’t even know how many. I don’t have my

Ph.D., but I definitely hope before I go I’ll get it, a Ph.D. Either an honorary or my

writings. I am sure it is possible. They gave my sister an honorary Ph.D. at


Florida A&M. I don’t know why they didn’t give me. She didn’t even care. I

always, since I was thirteen, wanted one. That’s the way the cookie crumbles.

[Laughter] Somebody called me once from Florida State. They found a recording

that I did over fifty years ago, and they were able to identify that it was me. Of all

the civil rights people. So I told them. They wanted to do something. The barber,

he was getting a degree. I haven’t heard from him in a long time. Michael

Shearer, you know him? Michael Shearer.

M: Michael Shearer?

K: Shearer, S-H-E-A—Shearer. Something like that. Michael. First name, Michael.

So I told him, I said, “Listen, I am only interested in community university is

getting a Ph.D.” for the paper, for the work. I haven’t heard from him in a long

time. It has been over a year. He probably has his degree by now. And

somebody is getting a Master’s for doing CORE, Tallahassee CORE. I don’t

know why I can’t do it. I was a part. I organized CORE with my sister. Everybody

can get something, and this lady, Rabbit, promised—. She went around

interviewing. She got a Ph.D. doing that book on civil rights. Did you get your

book on civil rights?

M: You mean write my own book?

K: No, did you write a book on civil rights? Is this what you got your PhD on?

M: No, my dissertation is actually on Western Shoshone Indians in Nevada. I have

been doing this as well.


K: That is wonderful. You have any artifacts from there that you can donate?

Because I am part Indian, too. We are all part Indian. We are everything. We

have everything in us. Everything that is in this world is in us.

M: That’s true. I don’t think I have too many artifacts. I kind of travelled light. So I

was mostly talking to people.

K: Lord Mercy.

M: I have got interviews and things.

K: Um, um, um! Not me. Boy, you should have seen what I came from China. I had

a hat on the head. I had a copper on my shoulder, and I don’t know how many

bags. I spent so much money in China that the credit card people called me and

asked me, did I lose my card? I said, “Nope, I still have it.” Because I went from

like ten hundred dollars to twenty thousand. They said, “Somebody stole your

card.” Unh-uh. They didn’t steal it. And counterfeiters, they are so clever. You

can use a credit card, and they will do fifty dollars, so they won’t call them in. So

if you want to buy something for a thousand dollars, they will write you a

thousand dollars’ worth of fifty dollar thing, so you can get it. That’s what they did

in China in 1979. So I was able to get everything I wanted. See, they knew. They

didn’t even call. They knew how to do it. They are clever. 1959; so that’s is why

my credit card went up the twenty thousand, because I wasn’t even aware that I

was doing it. Usually, if you go for something that is going to cost you five

hundred dollars, they would have to call that in. Not the Chinese. Unh-uh. They

write those slips two, two, two, two until you get five hundred. And it is always

accepted. Isn’t that something?


M: That is.

K: China. I met people. I have met friends everywhere I have gone. People that

didn’t know. We couldn’t speak the language. We were friends. Japanese,

Chinese, Africa, all parts of Africa, all parts of Europe. I lived in Europe for nine

years anyway, and I would travel all the time. We would go to Norway or to

Denmark. We stopped in Finland. When did I stop in Finland? When I was going

to Russia. Went to Luxembourg, Belgium. Went all over Europe. I wanted to do

this as a child, and God allowed me to do it. But you see now it’s like you have a

collection of experiences. How are you going to make them make a difference?

You see? Now, if you have all this and you can’t make a difference with

somebody. I had the Secretary of State here. I had the director of the archives

here. I have had people come all the way on the bus that I organize from Miami,

Fort Lauderdale, Palm Beach to come up here. Next month will be a year that I

had the opening. On the 25. I was tempted to do it again, but I am not, because

although this is very different, but the exhibit is pretty much the same. Because I

have not changed, because I have nowhere to put them. And I don’t believe in

just putting things away. I like to add to it. See, I am going to start putting the

chairs on the wall over there.

M: I see. Mount them up there.

K: Yeah, not in here. Here, this is the gallery and the library and the movie area.

M: I am just envisioning the—yeah.

K: On the walls, yes. Yeah, I know it can be done.

M: I think so.


K: Yeah, absolutely. I am going to get some benches. Eight benches going to be

donated to the museum there in the church attached to this building. I am going

to put them in the hallway, on the side where they won’t be in the way of people

moving. They are not that wide. So put four on each side, get eight. And then a

church is donating to me everything they have. So I do hope I get the whole

building. That is what I pray. Maybe Mrs. Floor will allow me to have other rooms.

So it can make the whole thing. Because I can fill this place many times.

M: I don’t doubt it.

K: Yeah. The two places that I have the longest time, one was at the Miracle Center

Mall in Miami. I changed. I was there for two years and four months. I changed

the exhibits every month for two years and four months. Every month, we had a

different exhibit. Every month. Then I went to Jungle Island, eighteen months. I

changed the exhibit every month. Added something. I had a king in both. In the

Miracle Center Mall, I didn’t have the king. In the Jungle Island on Miami Beach, I

invited my friend, the king, who made me queen mother. I am a queen mother.

Did I tell you that?

M: You did not.

K: I am an Ashanti queen mother from Ghana. Agogo. Ghana. Made Queen Mother

by Nana Sapan who was the king of Agogo in Ghana. So he has come to my

museum in three different sites. First in Miami, at my school, the opening of the

exhibit on Ghana. Then he came to West Palm Beach to my exhibit at a school

there, Pleasant City Elementary. Assuming he came a third time—so he has

been twice to my exhibits. King. And his family has been ruling for seven hundred


years. That’s right. Seven hundred years. And it doesn’t go automatically to the

son or the daughter. The queen mothers have to select from the family. It is from

the family though. He is a lawyer by profession. He was a minister of culture

when I first him in 1985. I think I have his picture here. That you can see him.

M: Sure.

K: Yeah, right on the bed. The frame of the bed was donated to me by my cousin.

Yeah, it is an old frame bed. Oh, I know I had them somewhere. Maybe over

there. I always bring every artifact, everything I get, so they can see the blessing

that—I know I had it, because I wanted to show the children. To see a king. I

threw it on the bed, I thought. That is what happens when you move things so

many times that I don’t remember it. I met Dr. King.

M: Oh, yeah?

K: Oh, yes. The first time I met him was in 1959. He was at CORE meeting in

Miami. I met him, and he sang We Shall Overcome Someday. And I said, ‘No,

no, Dr. King. Unh-uh. We shall overcome today, not someday.” Someday never

comes. You know that, don’t you?

M: Yeah. It’s true.

K: We shall overcome. So I don’t know where I put it. When I move fast and turn,

then I realize I am seventy-six, because I lose balance. I just don’t know where I

do things. Here at the shopping line. I can’t remember where I put it, but I put it in

the museum especially so when the children came, I could show them. I have a

picture of myself with President Mugabe who is still alive and still the president of

Zimbabwe. I have been to Mugabe, and I met him. I went through seven


thousand people and met him. So when people tell me they can’t do anything I

do, listen. “I went through twenty thousand people in Tallahassee to get up on

the stage at the Capitol.” Twenty thousand people.

M: Wow.

K: By saying, “Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me.” I went through seven thousand

people to meet Nelson Mandela in South Africa. I was going to a conference, and

he invited us to come. He gave me the section course. That was Nelson

Mandela. I went through all those people. I met him. I shook his hand. Had

carried a present for him.

M: Wow.

K: Yes, Nelson Mandela. I tried that at the inauguration of Obama. Didn’t work.

Honey, those people called the police on me. I tried to get through. They said,

“No, we was here from six o’clock in the morning. You are not getting.” I did get

to the front, but they made me move. [Laughter]

M: You gave it a shot.

K: So the third time. I tried it. I tried. I said, “I have tried this two times, and it has

worked. And now, they won’t let me do it.” They said, “No way.” They called the

police on me, baby. But you know what happened? They didn’t see it either,

because the camera where we were, it didn’t work. They had been there for

nothing.

M: Is that the Spanish side or the English side?

K: What? Oh, no. I can read this. It’s the English side. Oh, I didn’t know you had it

on two parts.


M: Eh, sometimes you need them for people. Before I turned on the recorder, you

said you met Kwame Nkrumah.

K: Oh, yes. Twice. Well, I met him. I saw him twice. I met him once when they were

doing the unveiling of his statue in Winneba, where he had this ideological

institute. Something Malcolm X, and talked a long time with Malcolm X, took

many pictures with Malcolm X. If you can find out where those pictures are, boy, I

would be so grateful. I talked with Malcolm X twice. Before he went to Mecca,

when he was in New York. We were both at the Ghanaian ambassador’s house

in New York, residency. We talked a long time, but I don’t remember taking

pictures with him. After he went to Mecca, he came by Ghana afterward. At the

Ideological Institute of Kwame Nkrumah, this building was in Winneba where I

was teaching. We took pictures and pictures, and we talked, and we

remembered that we met before. It was wonderful. I always wondered where

those pictures are. You think you can find them?

M: I can try.

K: You know my name, and it was in 1964. Because it was before I was married, I

believe. I got married in [19]65 in Ghana.

M: Okay, I’ll see what I can find.

K: Yeah, young people can do it. You can do it. CORE used to have a service when

we first joined CORE. Anything that had CORE in it, they could get it. So I have

done it on the computer. Googled my name. But I didn’t Google my name with

Malcolm X. I never thought about it until just now. We will both try.


M: Yeah, I will see if I can turn it up. Did you notice any difference in Malcolm

between—?

K: Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. He was for all people. He wasn’t out to

segregation us anymore. No, because he discovered that people in Mecca were

not all Black. There were many Black ones but not all. He just was able to

broaden his scope of life. Oh, yeah.

M: Because I have seen recordings of him on TV—

K: Of course. Of course.

M: Or speaking, yeah.

K: No, but I met him twice. You know, my life is such a blessing, because you just

have to follow your dreams. That’s what it is, I guess. I don’t know. I was always

pro-Malcolm. I have always been for the underdog or the proletariat. I have

always been inclined that way. I was doing an interview with a man who was

homosexual. I was always trying to find an answer. So he said to me, he thought

reason he was a homosexual was because he was inclined to be. It was

inclination. He was trying to explain it. And when I had a very bad experience on

the ship, because one of the men on the ship tried to molest my little two-year-old

baby, and the child told me. He said, “Oh, I would never do such a thing.” But I

knew that this man was homosexual. He didn’t have to hide it, but the babysitter,

we had no idea. That he was homosexual, nah, but that he would do such a thing

to a little baby. So he said to me, in my interview, because I was the only woman

on the ship. And I did things, you know, to make life interesting for myself. And

that was one of the things I wanted to know. What is all this all about? But you


know, after living so long and being around so many people, I remember, in

Ghana, an English couple came to visit me. And they had a little boy that was

very, very feminine, but then, of course, English behavior can also be thought of

as feminine. It is a kind of odd behavior. I often wonder what happened to the

child. But then again, when I taught in West Palm Beach at an African-centric

school, we had a little boy in second grade who was also—he wasn’t as feminine

as the little boy in Ghana, but he accepted that he was—what did they call that

child? “Sissy” something, they said. The children teased him. This was second

grade, so he may have been eight. So I wondered. That is my field, education

and early childhood and everything. Then you have the Bible. Bible and science,

all things are very different. Because when you see children who act certain

ways, and you can’t put any reason why, you know, they are in a family.

Everybody is acting their age, acting, et cetera. Then one says, “How you don’t

understand that?” Then when I got into science, we all get so many genes,

chromosomes. And some are female and some are male. And some of them get

more female, and some of them get more. And it is not always the same.

Sometimes you can be born with six fingers or six toes. In the old days, they

would take them to the circus. Two heads, you know. All different kind of

abnormalities, so you wonder. And then there is the conflict of the Bible. God

doesn’t do this, but God allows everything. Everything that happens, this is just

my opinion. I don’t know what you views are.

M: Sure. Sure.


K: God allows it. So if this is in the world, he allows it. It is for a reason. When I was

pregnant with my son, I read over a thousand books. And one of the books that I

read was that—I wish I could find it. Maybe you can find this, too. That God

allowed everybody before they came into this Earth to decide how they wanted to

come. A rapist, a preacher, a mother, or whatever. You decided how you want to

come in this world. To me, that made more sense, because God kept everybody.

You came in to play a role. To do a job. Have you ever read a book like that?

M: I don’t know if I have. I have heard ideas like that before.

K: I read a book about it many years ago. Because it is one of my passions, I read

so much and just have no idea. But I remember that, two things I remember. I

mean another thing I remember. This is about suicide. In the church, they used to

teach that if you commit suicide, you go to hell. I read or I was told, I don’t

remember what. But anyway, an old lady was, and I think she was Catholic, I am

not sure. She was at the river praying, trying to get God to change his mind about

her son going to hell, because he committed suicide. And God came before her.

“Your son did not go to hell, because he committed suicide.” So then I read later

that not all people who commit suicide go to hell. It explained. Because I don’t

believe Juda went to jail, because his job was to betray Christ. It was written.

That was his job that he had to do, and he did a good job of it. I don’t think he

was meant to be saved. It is hard to explain all these things. When you read

some of these things, that’s the other thing, you want to put it all together. I said,

“God, you take us away before you put this world together?” You can see. I had

one of my adopted children die in her fifties. I gave her healthcare three times,


and I couldn’t understand how God would take her away, because she was

specializing in AIDS. She was a medical doctor. I took her to Africa the first time.

After that, she went to Africa many times on conferences on AIDS. She was

doing all kind of things. She got cancer and died. She attached herself to me. I

went three times, and each time it was so hard to get away from her. So the last

time, I pulled myself away, because when you do that, I am not saying it’s not a

good thing to do, but it takes your whole life. It’s like going back to your parents.

You don’t turn back to your parents. You pull your parents up to you. You don’t

go backwards. So she said, “I am never going to see you again. I know it.” And

she had never said that the other two times. So when she died, she died like on

Thursday. They didn’t tell me until Sunday. I got so upset. I had diarrhea eleven

times, back to back. I could not believe it. How she could die? They knew she

was dying. Didn’t even tell me. The husband didn’t tell me. I just could not believe

that. So in my asking God in my thinking of God and my little knowledge that I

know, which is not very much, is to say, why when you can still use somebody,

you take them away? So there is a lesson behind everything. I know. I know.

That’s easy to let it go like that. Say, “He knows what he is doing. Let it go. Don’t

worry about it.” Like my sister, she was more that I to me. You know? She was

more righteous to me. Why would she go? You would have felt God would have

kept her. You just don’t know. But she did make her seventy. She was seventy-

two. I really feel very strongly about people making their seventy. But then Christ

himself died at thirty-three, so you just don’t know where to go with these things.

And I guess we will never know until we get to the end. There was a big debate


yesterday on the television about people trying to communicate with dead, with

the dead. That’s absolutely impossible. According to this minister, people stay

asleep until the end, until Christ comes back. That’s a relief. You know how you

try to say, “Oh, I might as well come.” Because I know if I know if one lady told

me, she was really strong about it. Because she said she had been reincarnated

many times. She was Jacob’s wife. I read to her. She was in her nineties when I

found her. She died ninety-eight, so I read to her about two years. She told me

that when the lights come on, and I am going to blow the horn for you. That’s

what she told me. First, she told me she wasn’t going to die. Then I called her a

few hours before she died. God is really powerful how he does things. I called

her and got her. She was in her nursing home. So they had to, from the station,

go and get the phone and give it to her. And she said she was tired. She didn’t

want to live no more. But the last time I had spoken to her, she was a god, and

she was not going to die. But she said she was tired, and that nobody talked to

her, because she was so old. People thought she didn’t have anything. She had

a lot to say. I used to record what she said. She had a lot to say. She knew so

much. She talked about outer space. She talked about being reincarnated. She

talked about meetings. And she talked about a book, and I wrote it down, and I

lost it. So I called two times to this nursing home. And the first time that I called

was to get the name of the book again. They went in and got the name of the

book, and I ordered it, and I got it. It was the last copy. Written in 1976. Let me

see what it is called. Maybe it will come to me later.

M: Okay.


K: But the things that she said to me were in that book. She referred to that book. It

is somewhere in the mountains up in Washington. Somewhere where they met.

All the great prophets. Only one person. Only one black person in the book,

Booker T. Washington. Jesus Christ is in the book. There were many people in

the book from outer space. Many colors. All kinds of things. What was name of

that? What was the name of that? I still have it, of course. Do you know that

book? I got the last copy.

M: Wow.

K: Look at that. That’s God. Because I read to her for two years, and she talked

about it. Then after I left her, well back then, I remembered that I wanted to find

out that book. And I couldn’t find the name, so I called and she was still alive, and

she knew the book. She later gave it to me. I called the book company, and they

sent it to me. Something about the mass—oh, God. I read that book so many

times. Something about the masters. Descending Masters. Descending Masters

or Ascending. Ascending or descending. I don’t know. Something about masters.

And if I keep thinking, I will be able to think of the name of the man who wrote it.

But it was 1976. You can go on the computer. You can find it though.

M: Okay.

K: But it is about masters of the universe. Not of the Earth, of the universe. All kinds

of people. And they say, “If you need me, you call on me.” All of them. The end

was always if you need me, you call me. They talk about light. They talk about

colors. They talk about energy. And she talked about these people. This ninety-

eight year old lady. She had two sons. One lived in Palm Beach, and one lived in


Canada. Her name was Ms. Woods. And she loved Dr. Schuller, who just died a

few days ago. You know Dr. Schuller? The Crystal Cathedral? It is a very

famous, powerful minister.

M: Okay.

K: But anyway, I was reading the book to her. Somebody had started reading that

book. One of Dr. Schuller’s books. Robert Schuller was his name. He is just died.

I completed reading the book, and she wanted to keep it to give to her son, who

lived in Canada. But he didn’t want it, or he didn’t come. So it was in the library.

So when she died, I went back to that nursing home and asked them, where that

book was. They said it was in the library, and I went there. And I found it with all

my writings in it. Oh, I was so grateful, because she would have given it to me.

But she thought her son wanted it, but evidently, he didn’t. So I got that book. So

another blessing from God. But she talked about how she was Iagra-, Isaac’s

wife. She talked a lot. She had so much knowledge, and nobody there, because

people working in nursing homes—I have done nursing homes a couple of times.

I actually worked in a nursing home when I was in graduate school in New York.

And most of the people are very low educational level. I used to do nursing home

when I was in graduate school on weekends. The people were very

unsympathetic. These are the people who need the most love and everything

you can possibly give them. But these people, I found, this is just my own

observation that people were not like that in places where people really need to

show love and compassion. They aren’t there, because they pay very little.

Those kinds of jobs should pay a lot. People need to learn that. But anyway, two


times I have gone to nursing homes and asked if there is anybody in the nursing

home that didn’t have any visitors, and that I wanted to go and visit them. That’s

how I started. So the first time was in West Palm Beach, and I met this lady. And

she didn’t I know I was Black. She was blind. So she asked me one day,

something came up, and I told her I was Black. She said, “Oh, you are black?” I

said, “Yes, I am.” And then the other nurse, one lady, was Haitian. And I went

there. She was diabetic. She had socks on to leave the cutting off her circulation

at night. That’s insensitive. Her blood would be three hundred and four hundred,

and they would be giving her potatoes and bread. You can’t do that. So I just

thought, “Oh, my God. Oh, my God.” They are all dead now, of course, but I am

just telling you how in situations if you don’t monitor your loved ones in these

places. Because the people don’t have the education nor the sympathy. They

don’t care. You people can die. First of all, I always said I would never put any of

my relatives in any home. A lot of people do. My girlfriend just did. She is not

even talking to me, and I don’t care. She put her husband in a home. He died just

because just because he knew she didn’t want him anymore.

M: Wow.

K: Yeah, it’s terrible. I don’t care how much you pay. They don’t take care of you like

somebody who loves you.

M: Yeah, that’s true.

K: But anyway, I am deviating. I better put the date here and the time, because I

don’t want you to get away with murder. [Laughter] The date is April the

twentieth, and it is 1:20. See, that is another blessing. Is April the twentieth. I


consider those real special things, and that only God can do. See, the time is

1:20, and it is April the twentieth. See, if I had done it earlier, it wouldn’t happen.

Now, you are the interviewer, so you have to sign.

M: So I sign below yours, so yours is the top line.

K: Oh, I see. I see the difference. The –ee and –er. Okay, I see it now. I do. I wasn’t

reading properly. That is why I don’t read directions. Sure. I have a sister from

my father’s. And I want to say she is not really my sister, because I don’t believe

my father is really my father. But our handwriting is so similar, she said, “Oh, no.

You are my sister. I know it.” And said, “We look alike.” I said, “Oh, no we don’t

look alive.” She swears we do.

M: Which address would you like us to send the copy of the interview to?

K: Here. I am here.

M: Okay, so what is the address here? Officially, it that 412 Cooper—

K: Unh-uh. Unh-uh.

M: No?

K: It is 1347—look at all the thirteens I have. No, it is PO Box, it should be PO Box,

you can do that. PO Box 1347 Quincy, Florida 32353-1347. Let’s see if I am

clever enough to have written it here. I know I was supposed to be clever enough

to have written it. Sometimes I am not clever, and this is not all there. Nope.

M: No one can be all the time.

K: You can try though.

M: That is true.


K: You can sure try. It says PO Box 1347 and then Quincy. I am putting it here. I

just officially did that.

M: Got the PO Box?

K: No, no, no. Made it permanent. I was doing it every time. But they only allow you

to do that twice on a year. You should do it temporary. I have all this up here. So

I got to do something with it. My children come and watch television, watch the

movies. I have Selma. Have you seen it?

M: I haven’t yet actually.

K: I have Selma, and I had a showing here.

M: Oh, really?

K: Uh-huh. I served soup and drinks. Yes.

M: Right here in this room?

K: Yes. They can sit anywhere there was nothing in the chair. There are quite a few

chairs. Any of the rocking chairs.

M: Oh, yeah.

K: Yeah. That is a big one. That was donated to me by my cousin. That was made

by an inmate.

M: Oh, really?

K: Uh-huh. Here in Quincy. She won it in a raffle. The things that people give me, it

is just unbelievable. There are some things I just don’t know how they can get rid

of them. Somebody is bringing me an organ today.

M: Oh, really? Wow.


K: Yes, he is. Told him to call first. There is a nice restaurant, which we can go to.

But you will have to pay.

M: Okay.

K: Because I am broke and don’t have the money.

M: Do they take credit cards?

K: Oh, yeah.

M: Okay. Yeah, we can do that.

K: It is down there, so we can come back. But first, let’s get the bookshelf out of the

car.

M: Okay.

K: If you don’t mind.

M: Let’s do that here. I guess we will stop the tape.

K: Okay.

M: Okay.

[Break in recording]

K: I met him on the ship, the Ghana ship. Ghana had its own shipping line in the

[19]60s, Black Star Line.

M: Okay.

K: My husband was a radio operator.

M: On that line?

K: Uh-huh. It was just Don, the radio person.

M: So that is part of how you were able to travel so much?


K: Yeah. But I started travelling before I met him. That is how I met him. I had gone

to Europe and Africa when I was twenty-four. When I was twenty-five, I went to

Canada to get a ship to go to Ghana, and he was on that ship. So I met him on

the ship.

M: Wow. You guys just kind of hit it off?

K: We married. I met him in August. Got engaged in December, married in March.

M: Wow.

K: Stayed married until his death, thirty-six years. He has been dead about fourteen

years now.

M: Wow.

K: He was born in Holland. He was a Dutchman.

M: Do you speak any Dutch?

K: A little bit. Understand a little Dutch, a little German, a little English. [Laughter]

K: He learned five languages in school. He could speak Dutch.

M: I guess last spring, almost a year ago, I guess I hadn’t thought about it much, but

it is interesting to see how many like Suriname and all kinds.

K: Yeah.

M: Yeah.

K: I have been there, too. Indonesia, Suriname, Aruba. I have been to Aruba,

Suriname, Curaçao. At the same time. Went to three Dutch former colonies.

First, Suriname, then Aruba, then Curaçao

M: How did you like it there? I know Suriname, the food seems to be a whole mix of

all kinds of things.


K: Oh, yeah.

M: It is kind of an interesting.

K: I like food, period. Mmhm. I stayed with a friend in Suriname. Curaçao and

Aruba, I was on a ship.

M: I see.

K: For my seventy-fourth birthday, I went on a cruise. For my seventy-fifth, I bought

myself a car. [Laughter]

K: I couldn’t believe it. Oh—but you know the things that you fit, because senior

citizens are living so much longer now. And they are working longer, too.

M: It’s true.

K: I think if I hadn’t been fired from my job, I would still be working, too. But in

Miami, I lost my job. Then I got another job in West Palm Beach. A private

school, charter school. And I lost my job there, and since then, I haven’t been

working. That was 2002.

M: Those were teaching jobs?

K: Yes. And I was already old when I started. I didn’t start teaching until I was fifty.

M: Okay. What got you started teaching then?

K: When I was married, my professor. I went to school to be a teacher. In graduate

school, I went to Africa, and I worked there for four years. Then I went to Europe.

There for nine years. I went to live in Europe. Mostly, I just travelled with my

husband. Raised our son. Saw the world with him. He was home-schooled. I was

the teacher, but my husband was the one who taught him. He taught him in

Dutch.


M: Oh, really?

K: Yeah. I don’t know whether he still reads in Dutch or not. He married a woman.

She like himself. My son was biracial. He was Black mother, Dutch father. His

wife is African father, European-English mother. They have two children. One,

seventeen. One, thirteen.

M: Wow.

K: He had another son when he was in the Philippines, but he was killed in

Afghanistan. He was one of those war babies. It was only two days before getting

out of service. Can you believe it?

M: Wow.

K: That hurt so much. Two days. Just when he was into. That why I never go to

the Philippines. I never been there.

M: Oh, yeah?

K: Yeah. You been?

M: I have not. One of the other graduate students when I started the Anthro

program, she was from the Philippines. Actually, there is another grad student

who was from there now.

K: How many students are in there? About fifty thousand at your school?

M: Total? Yeah. Fifty thousand.

K: You have a new president, don’t you?

M: Yup, we do.

K: I thought he would be the same, too. Female president, I heard that speech

Sunday night.


M: Oh, yeah?

K: Yesterday, yeah. She was in a church in Quincy. Have you met the president of

your university?

M: Yup.

K: Mmhm.

M: Actually, the school theatre and dance at UF did a play based on some of our

oral history transcripts, and he went. So I escorted him to that.

K: Oh, yeah?

M: Yeah.

K: You know him intimately then?

M: Well—

K: He knows you.

M: As intimately—he would recognize me by face. We are hoping we will get some

more support to do some more of these interviews and more of this work. There

is a lot to be done. There is a lot of history in Florida.

K: Oh, my goodness, yes.

M: Yeah. I mean black history has been pretty much overlooked in the history

books.

K: Absolutely, and books.

M: Especially here. It is amazing to me how much people can talk about how little of

it is written anywhere. It’s—yeah.

K: It’s Florida.

M: It’s amazing.


K: Quincy, Florida. Is this your first time in Quincy?

M: Mmhm.

K: Okay.

M: It is.

K: Let me show you some of the old mansions on the highway.

M: Okay. I will be able to look at that.

K: Don’t know. There is something like a fairy shell.

M: Yeah, no, I have been meaning to see Quincy for a while.

K: Oh, yeah?

M: I am bogged with important stories coming from here.

K: Lot of lynching to Quincy.

M: Hmm?

K: Lot of lynching, more lynching here than anywhere in the United States.

M: I did not.

K: But greed, anywhere people can make money, take advantage, or exploit.

M: Not so good.

K: If you made money and you do good, it’s okay. You don’t take from nobody. You

got to make it a good way. But I tell you, excuse me. It is the usual way you can

see everything. You know everybody. And they know you far before you know

them. It can be a nice place, you know. Everybody can be nice.

M: It’s true.

K: Any person can be nice.


M: Treat others. Yeah, in Gainesville, I don’t know if you know of Lincoln High

School in Gainesville.

K: You met Dan, remember?

M: Harmeling?

K: Yeah.

M: Yup. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

K: Do you see him a lot?

M: I saw him sometime, because we have done a couple of interviews with him.

Yeah, he comes by the office pretty often.

K: They did a story, you know. A panel and a story, my brother and my sister. Dan’s

brother committed suicide, and I had left the country. So they are talking about

two siblings and how they took civil rights. I wouldn’t have survived had I stayed

here, I don’t think. Because I internalize, but I didn’t know I was doing it. My hair

would fall. I would have an ulcer. Skin rashes. I never thought it was my

involvement with civil rights. That the way you are going to die.

M: Yeah, well, I mean it must have been difficult.

K: It was. I got kicked in the stomach twice by the chief of police. Twice, not one

time. In broad daylight. The first time he kicked me was at the swimming pool.

We were there to swim, a day there. He was putting me in the police car, and

then I was not getting there fast enough. He kicked me in my stomach. That is

the first time. Then when the Freedom Riders came to Tallahassee, he was

arresting me again, pushing me in the car, kicked me in the stomach.

U: Y’all take it easy.


M: Wow. You too man.

K: But you know, we didn’t have any fear. We still. It didn’t stop us. We kept doing it

over and over again. Got arrested. My sister was arrested far more times. She

was here longer. She got involved in voters’ registration.

M: Yeah, your sister even got arrested down in Ocala.

K: Yeah, right.

M: She was down.

K: She was down there working for CORE.

M: But yeah.

K: The only thing slowed her down was after she had those three little girls. That

slowed her down a bit. Then she got involved with school and raising those

children. She made sure they had every opportunity to go to school, to the best

schools. One graduated from Harvard. One went to Oxford in London. She made

sure they got the chance to do whatever was possible.

M: That’s really impressive. It is.

K: She could take it. I tell you, I couldn’t take it.

M: Well, she bore the scars of it though. She was always wearing those sunglasses

because of the tear gas.

K: Right in her face.

M: I think people just carry things with them in different ways.

K: I know. That policeman on purpose did that to her. He threw it in her face on

purpose. I don’t think she ever knew the name.

M: Did you see it happen?


K: No, I was in jail. They were protesting about our being in jail.

M: Oh.

K: I was in jail. I was the group that got arrested. Yeah, with Rose something. Oh,

Lord. Rose something.

M: From what I gather, you and she started what I guess you can call civil rights

concerns early when you were young-

K: Oh, yeah.

M: In school, you already—

K: Our parents. Mother did voters’ registration. Her father taught us civics in school.

Yeah, we did. We start protesting early. We tried to boycott the Dairy Queen in

Belle Glade and tried to get a petition signed to get rid of the principal. We were

really bad. We were something from day one. Yup. So we were boycotting,

petitioning under sixteen. But you know, you don’t think about things like that. I

don’t know why we didn’t like the principal, but we didn’t. My father taught us

about right to petition and get rid of people. We were on it. And he never said a

word to us about it. He didn’t try to stop us. When we were in civil right and we

were in jail, he didn’t try to stop us either. He managed to get out. Because his

job was from the county. So he was under them, and they had asked him to

control us. He never did. He never said anything. So when we left jail, the first

place we went to to start our speaking engagement was at his school. That was a

real slap in the face for them.

M: Wow.

K: I am going to have some more water. What about you? Want some more water?


M: Sure.

K: It is the best water I have had in ages. Ms. Tracy. Ms. Tracy. May I have some

more of your blue water? Something you put in there. It is so good. [Mumbles]

M: Yeah, just the water.

K: I was telling him. I am always bring people here. Every time I visit, I am here.

Yeah. Yes, you can always count on me for that. Leaves must have blown over

there in the windy part. This lady that I am taking you to visit, she married late.

M: Okay.

K: I think she had her baby at forty. And for a hundred, you know that is really late.

Yeah. Can I run to the bathroom?

M: Oh, sure.

K: So it has been really different. She is the only one in her family of nine children. I

think she said her brother finished. She is the only one alive. All of them are

dead. Her sister died last year or the year before. She is a hundred.

M: Wow.

K: So she is the second oldest living. The third one to live to a hundred. I have a

cousin who just died a few years ago. She was a hundred and three. And my

grandfather came here in 1860, he died, he was a hundred and four. He died in

1944. Of thirty-three children, he was number four. So you know he lived some

hard times.

M: Yeah.

K: A hundred and four.

M: Wow.


K: So I don’t think anybody is around now that knew him. Because my cousin was

eighty-five, she said she should have gone to see him when she was a little girl,

but she didn’t go. Something stopped her from going. I forgot now. But my

grandmother, she knew and she called her. She gave her peanut butter when

she was a little girl. She would get bits and pieces from relatives. Because very

few people around are much older than I am, you know? It is almost generation

now that is the leaders. Almost. As a matter of fact, I am now the senior member

of the family. I am the eldest now of the family.

M: Oh, okay.

K: Because everybody else older are dead. You are young in your family.

M: Me? Yeah.

K: Your grandparents are alive.

M: I have one grandparent still alive, but I am the oldest of my cousins, I guess. But

yeah, I got a lot of generations.

K: Oh, how old is your grandparent who is still alive?

M: Around ninety. I forget exactly.

K: Let’s see if we can fix this. When you’re young you know everything. The time is

pretty much right, but what’s wrong? I moved something or other. It is 4/20. It is

not 4/21. The day is the twentieth. That is the only thing that is right. You close at

what time? Okay.

M: Thank you.

K: See, I told you. It is a good thing we came here.

M: So it’s the date you need to change?


K: Oh, wait a minute. Let me see.

M: It is 4/21.

K: Yeah, it should be 4/20.

M: Okay.

K: You think I might have?

M: I don’t know how this thing—

K: If you can’t, don’t worry about it. But if you can. We got here just on time. If had

gone run by her house, we wouldn’t have made it, and I am glad I remembered

that.

M: Yeah, I am, too. Yeah, I don’t know how to do this.

K: Don’t worry. That’s all right. Just tell me. Because a lot of people won’t admit it,

you know?

M: No.

K: I have to ask somebody much younger than you. You are too old. Young children

don’t need it. An eight year old boy did my phone. He said, “I have never even

seen a phone, and I can do it.” I said, “Yeah, that’s true.”

M: Kids are funny that way.

K: They are funny. That’s not the word for it. So we should go whenever you are

ready.

M: All right. I can wrap this up.

[End of Interview]

Transcribed by: Derick Gomez, July 14, 2015


Audit-edited by: Sandra Romero, May 4, 2017

Final edit by: Ryan Morini, February 25, 2019

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