Oral History Project: Interview an Immigrant.

Interviewee: Adrianna Johanna Merks (Ansems)

Interviewer: Hillary Merks

*Looking through a box with old pictures and documents*

Grammie: These are mostly old pictures of you fellas rather than... I don’t know if there

are any old ones from Holland really. OH yes! This one here, this is me when I was in

Holland.

Hillary: Yep.

Grammie: That one there, you know like a... that’s also a school picture.

Hillary: Is it? They had like family pictures?

Grammie: Yes they took family pictures.

Jane: Nice.

Grammie: I have other ones from when even I was younger because my teeth are missing

*laughs* Not this one but I must have been younger, and Casey wasn’t on there, so you

know like some of the older ones are on that one because who was in the picture

depended on who you went to school with. Casey is here, then me, Gerald, Frank, and

Ted. But there’s a whole bunch of them (meaning her siblings). You see this…

Hillary: That’s a good picture.

Grammie: Pardon?

Hillary: It’s a good picture.

Grammie: Yeah that’s a good picture. Let me see… now but you’d have to look… now I

had those other ones I had in my purse for so long and I never did get them photocopied,

and I wanted to because some people might want some like I think Frank and Marilyn

wanted some of those pictures and I never did get them done, but I don’t think I can find

any of those now *points to group school picture* that would be the only one I have in

here. *Searches through the box* But anyways... OK why don’t you just ask me some

questions?

Hillary: Where do you want to sit?

Grammie: Um… Can I just do something instead of just sitting?

Jane: Yeah that would work better right?

Grammie: Yes a natural kind of thing. Rather then sitting down.

Jane: Maybe I’ll go...?

Grammie: No I’m sure you can stay.

Hillary: Yeah you can stay.

Jane: Alright.

Grammie: She (meaning Hillary) would feel more comfortable if you were here. Or not?

Hillary: It doesn’t matter to me.

Grammie: I’ll make a cup of coffee for you (directed at Jane)

Jane: Oh no I’ll make it.

Grammie: Hillary would you like something to eat or drink?

Hillary: Oh no I’m good. I just had lunch before I came.

Grammie: Oh you did? Alright. Ok I don’t think there’s anything more in here that we

can use *closes box*

Hillary: You want to keep your question sheet?

Grammie: Yes.

Will start transcribing when we get back on topic.

Grammie: Alright so the first question is “What part of the Netherlands were you from”?

I’m from the small village of Galder in Noord-Brabant (North Brabant).

Hillary: What was it like there?

Grammie: What was it like there? Where I lived it would have been really ah... woods.

Hillary: Like in a small village?

Grammie: No I lived in the country. So it was…

Hillary: Really rural?

Grammie: Yeah it was rural, but I mean rural there would not be rural here. *talks about

how rural it was in comparison to where we live but this part only makes sense if you

know the area we live and the people* I mean there’s other people near because there was

around 12 million people in half the size of Nova Scotia right? So it’s totally different.

Where I live now (in Grand Pre on the Evangeline Beach in a slightly wooded area) they

would think I live far far far away. No mans land. *laughs*

Jane: So there would have been a small village...?

Grammie: Yes but it was very small. There was a school, a grocery store, a pub, the

church and that would basically be it. That is Galder.

Hillary: And would most of the people have been Catholic?

Grammie: Yes, the only people that were not Catholic would have been the police. I think

there might have been one or two families in the whole community that were not

Catholic.

Hillary: Why would only the police have not been Catholic?

Grammie: I… don’t know. When you’re 10 years old you don’t really ask that question.

Jane: Yeah.

Grammie: And the church that I went to it was probably the first foundation, the first

church, was built around 1100.

Jane + Hillary: Oh wow.

Grammie: And then it was rebuild I think in the 1500s and then it went from being a

church to being a school, being a house, back to being a church. With the reformation.

And usually you had a church and then you would have a pub right next door. That was

the norm over there. Especially in the Catholic areas.

Jane: And you went to mass everyday?

Grammie: No we didn’t. Because the church and the school weren’t really close to one

another. And the church was really like a satellite church from another parish, like

Canning to Wolfville or to Kentville. There wasn’t like a full time priest there. So he was

there periodically. You had religious education in school everyday right? And the priest

would come twice a week to help teach this. And you would say your prayers everyday.

And what else?

Hillary: So what did your father do? Like his job?

Grammie: Oh he was a farmer.

Hillary: Yeah so what kind of farm did he run?

Grammie: They had different things; they had some cows, vegetables, and fruit. It

wouldn’t have been huge compared to today.

Hillary: So what did your mother do?

Grammie: My mother was a mother. My mother had 12 children. *laughs*

Jane: She was busy.

Hillary: So how many brothers and sisters did you have?

Grammie: I have... I would have had 7 brothers, and 3 sisters. One of the brothers died

very young.

Hillary: So what were the reasons your parents decided to leave the Netherlands? What

were some of the main reasons?

Grammie: Ah... well after the war things were not as good and they really wanted for

everyone (the sons) to farm and there really wasn’t an opportunity for everyone to farm.

If anyone farmed it was usually the oldest in the family, just one, because there was no

room really. And that’s a reason they went.

Hillary: So what year did they decide to leave?

Grammie: I think they probably decided to leave around 1950? But it took a few years

because of the medical tests and things like that so they couldn’t just get out of there.

Because my brothers heart, I don’t know exactly what was wrong with him, and also my

mothers varicose veins. *laughs*

Jane: Oh really? Because of that?

Grammie: Isn’t that something?

Jane: Yeah.

Grammie: So varicose veins were one of the things…

Hillary: Maybe for flying?

Grammie: Yeah maybe.

Hillary: So what was the name of the brother that had the heart condition?

Grammie: John.

Hillary: And he had to go to Canada by a different route then the rest of the family right?

Grammie: Well they went through Belgium. Apparently whoever was doing the physical

over there they were more lax then the ones in the Netherlands. So we only lived a short

distance from the Belgium border, like a 10 minute walk. So it wasn’t a big thing.

Jane: And he was 18?

Grammie: Yeah he was 18.

Hillary: So he was older and able to travel by himself.

Grammie: Yes but he did come with us.

Hillary: He came with you but did he come on a different plane?

Grammie: No he came on the same flight.

Jane + Hillary: Oh.

Hillary: So what year did you guys leave and what month?

Grammie: July 27th, in 1953. I might have a card... *goes to search through the box for a

while and doesn’t find the card*

Grammie: So what is the next question? *Grammie + Jane laugh*

Hillary: So why did your parents decide to come to Nova Scotia after living in Ontario

for a few years?

Grammie: Because the land was cheaper over here then it was in Ontario. So everyone

could farm. That’s the reason they came. The year we came here was 1959.

Hillary: Was there any sort of support system when you came to Canada?

Grammie: Well there probably was, in Ontario there would have been your church really.

Your church would have been your main support system.

Hillary: So there was a separation between Catholic and Protestant Dutch immigrants? So

they wouldn’t have interacted that much?

Grammie: The only thing is where we came to in Ontario there were very few Dutch

Protestants. As far as we were concerned there weren’t any. There might have been some

in the different areas. I think they came and grouped them all together kind of idea. Like

a whole bunch of Dutch Catholics were sent to Cape Breton. And here in the Valley there

was a separation of the two religions. But it wasn’t like that where we were in Ontario,

they were all basically Catholic and they came from Noord-Brabant like we did. If they

came from a different part they were probably Protestant.

Hillary: What was your first impression of Canada?

Grammie: Hot. It was HOT. It was July and it was hot and we were used to having

shorter sleeves and I think everyone in out family had blisters on our arms the first year

in July. It was so hot, we weren’t used to it. So yeah... I can still see them. Huge blisters.

Hillary: So do you remember anything from the plane?

Grammie: The flight, the stewardesses were nice and they gave us these papers that you

would scratch and pictures would appear. We’d never seen something like that before.

Hillary: Was it a continuous flight?

Grammie: No we stopped in Iceland. Reykjavík or something. There is only one airport

there. And we had to stay over there because the plane broke and they had to send

another part to Iceland to repair the plane. One of the propellers wasn’t working. So we

had to stay over there for a while.

Hillary: What was your first impression of Canada, like the buildings and the people?

Grammie: Oh the buildings, my mother always said the buildings in Ontario reminded

her of Belgium, because of the style of the big brick houses. Not like here where they’re

mostly wood.

Hillary: Was there any big differences you noticed between 1950’s Canada and the

Netherlands? Like anything that you were like, “Whoa that’s different”.

Grammie: Yes there would have been because everyone had a car in Canada. Which very

few people had in the Netherlands, and there wasn’t really a need because there was

different transportation. Bikes were the normal transportation everyone used to move

about. But over here in Canada, well, you didn’t see any bikes really. Everyone had a car.

So just imagine. 16, 17, 18 year olds all of a sudden having these cars.

Jane: That was your brother’s?

Grammie: Yes and other boys. Like a whole group of people who had never driven

before and had hardly ever seen a car before and all of a sudden got a vehicle.

Hillary: Gah. That must have been..,

Grammie: That was an experience.

*Everyone laughs*

Hillary: Could your father drive?

Grammie: Not when we first came, he’d never driven before coming to Canada. So he

got a license and would drive us back and forth to school.

Hillary: So do you have any funny stories about the cultural differences?

Grammie: Cultural differences? I think the Dutch people were a little more short-

tempered then the Canadians. They were more... hyper then the Canadians who were

more lax in those days.

Hillary: They were hyper?

Grammie: Yes. Maybe because of the culture they came from, coming through the war…

But then again I only knew a few Canadians, we didn’t have very much contact with

them.

Hillary: So you guys were like in your own little closed community of Dutch Catholics?

Grammie: Yeah. Even though they lived all over the place but in Ontario if you have a

farm every kilometer then it’s very widely spaced. So you’d visit Dutch people and most

socializing was done at church, with Dutch people. They had their own dances and such

at the church. The church was very important and a centre of the community. But I think

that was true for non-Dutch people too. The church was much more important then it is

today.

Hillary: So did you notice any big differences between the Dutch school system and the

Canadian one?

Grammie: Differences... almost everything was different. I had never had a nun for a

teacher before. In the Netherlands it was just regular teachers.

Hillary: You had nuns for teachers in Canada?

Grammie: Yes, Ursuline nuns. How’s that? *laughs* The Order of Ursuline. *laughs*

Mother Viola was my teacher when I went to school at Sacred Heart.

Hillary: *laughs* That must have been different.

Grammie: Yeah because I’d never had a nun for a teacher. You wouldn’t think would

you? You’d think we would have had that over in the Netherlands, not in Ontario. But we

didn’t. That’s when I started being called “Jeanie”. The nuns gave me that name, before

that people usually called me by my nickname, “Soncha”.

Hillary: How many Dutch people to Canadians in the school?

Grammie: Well if there were about 80 students total, because there would have been like

three classrooms, then 60 or 70 were Dutch or Belgian. The rest were Canadian. I can

only remember a couple in my class that were Canadian, the rest were all Belgian or

Dutch.

Hillary: That must have been odd for them.

Grammie: Right. And the public school was right across the road. Very close.

Jane: So you went to the Catholic school, and the Canadians in your school would have

been also Catholic.

Grammie: They were Catholic. The other ones (Protestants) would have been in the

public school. But you didn’t really talk to those and you didn’t play with them. Ontario

was still a little…

Hillary: Conservative?

Grammie: Yeah I think so.

Hillary: When you guys came to Ontario did you buy a farm right away?

Grammie: No, we bought a farm a couple years after coming from another Dutch family

who were returning to the Netherlands. Before that my father and some of my older

siblings worked on other peoples farms as farmhands or other sorts of jobs.

Hillary: Was it hard learning English?

Grammie: My mother.

Hillary: Your mother had a really hard time?

Grammie: Well she never learned it.

Jane: She was older with she came right?

Grammie: Yes…

Turns off recorder to take a break.

Grammie: So when they needed to go get things like passports, they couldn’t speak any

English so I had to be the interpreter. So where we lived (near London, Ontario.

Strathroy) to Windsor was quite a ways away and I would have to go along with them to

translate everything. They could drive and I couldn’t because I was too young. But I

think that common with most immigrants. It’s... It’s just hard. I can’t even imagine doing

something like that myself at that age.

Hillary: She was like 47 years old right? It would have been really hard to learn a new

language at that age.

Grammie: Yes, and in those days’ people went out a lot less then people do today. They

barely ever went out, I mean how far can you go on a bike?

Hillary: And you’re living on those big isolated farms with so much work to do.

Grammie: Oh yes, so we would see people like once a week at church, and they would

talk after church and stuff like that with other Dutch people and that was their social

thing.

Hillary: So 6 years later you moved to Port Williams, was that more isolating for her?

Grammie: Yes it was more isolating even though it was less isolated then the farm in

Ontario, because there were no Dutch people around her age in the area that she could

relate to. All the Dutch people around here were young families with small children, and

she had older children, some already married. You don’t have the same things in

common. Not that the older one wouldn’t know what the younger was going through but

the younger doesn’t really know what the older is going through with teenagers and other

struggles. I think my parents would have had a harder time to adjust to Nova Scotia then

they did in Ontario, because there was more support for them (in Ontario). Life became

more isolating really because while they would go to church in Kentville they didn’t have

anyone to talk to.

Hillary: Because there were mostly English speakers?

Grammies: Yes and the Dutch people there were much younger.

Will start transcribing when we get back on topic.

Grammie: At that age (10 years old) you don’t really think about it that much. It’s just

part of life, that’s the way it goes. You’re with your family.

Hillary: It would have been easier for you to adapt.

Grammie: Right. But even the young people that came alone with no family had other

support, with the younger ones. And they did have someone here that was from the

government. His name was Alan Foley (I’m not sure if that’s how his surname is spelled

but it’s the closest I could get) he was a person who went to the Catholic Church in

Kentville and he worked for the government. And he was an immigration person, an

immigration officer. So if anyone had any problems then could go to him. And apparently

they did, because there were quite a few people who came to Nova Scotia and they

worked on farms and then they didn’t get paid. That’s what Lucy always said, her sister

worked on a farm in Port Williams and after let’s say a half year they never paid them.

They said “You’re living in the house,” but that’s not the reason. So Alan Foley was the

one who helped them get paid. So there was a support system like that around. Not that

we ever needed that.

Hillary: So when you came to Nova Scotia you didn’t stay in school?

Grammie: No I didn’t I had to stay home with my mother to help look after the family. I

had two older sisters, and they had been the ones helping at home, but then they got

married in Ontario. So they stayed behind. And so then when you’re mother has no one

you have to stay home and help do the housework. That’s the way it was. So you went

from one to the other and I helped my parents. And that was the way it was and then you

got married. And started your own family. *laughs*

Hillary: So for your schooling in Ontario the teacher...

Grammie: Mother Viola.

Hillary: Mother Viola, started you all in primary because of your English?

Grammie: That’s how school would have had to start in order for us to learn English. Yes

she did the whole class, but she would have had four classes all in the same room. So I

came when I was 10 and she had grades 5, 6, 7, and 8 in one room. Every row would

have been a different grade. Then as the school got bigger there was the same amount of

students in the same class but just less grades. I stayed in that one room for four years and

just moved from one row to another *laughs*

Jane: I remember you told a story about how you learned English and you were helping

the Canadian kids with their work by Christmas.

Grammie: Yes! By Christmas I was helping some Canadian kids with their work. We

came in July but we only started learning English in September. It really doesn’t take

very long when you’re impressed right into it and you’re young. But you always kept

you’re language because at home my mother didn’t speak any English, even until she

died.

Hillary: So did you speak Dutch with your siblings?

Grammie: At first but the gradually you would switch over.

Hillary: Did the older kids have more trouble with the language then the younger ones?

Grammie: No, since they had to go to work. They probably had it just as easy because if

you were working at a job and there were no Dutch people around you had to learn

English to communicate with your boss and coworkers. And they were still young. The

older people had a harder time. But if you’re in your teens you have an easier time. Your

grandfather really, he had school in the Netherlands but by the end I could probably read

more Dutch then he could. Because he really didn’t speak Dutch anymore, while I would

speak it with my parents.

Hillary: So people who came young without older relatives were more likely to slowly

forget?

Grammie: Well some people do, but it was more reading. Because he never really read

Dutch, he always read in English.

Hillary: Do you have any funny stories about cultural differences?

Grammie: I really can’t think...

Hillary: Like food that you’re just like “why are they eating this?”

Grammie: Oh well your grandfather he never wanted to eat a turnip. You know why?

Hillary: Because of the war?

Grammie: No because he said that was for cattle.

Hillary + Grammie laugh

Jane: So you wouldn’t have eaten turnips in the Netherlands?

Grammie: No.

Jane: And that was a staple of the Nova Scotian diet at that time. *laughs*

Grammie: *laughs* And it was for the cattle over there (Netherlands).

Everyone laughs

Grammie: Over there they’d cut it up for the cattle. The climate was different over there

(Netherlands) it was never as cold. It never was cold.

Hillary: mild?

Grammie: yes, mild. Like Vancouver. You’d have some frost but not a lot.

Hillary: The weather here and in Ontario must have been terrible then.

Grammie: Oh my heavens!

Jane: And the summers in the Netherlands would have been warmer too?

Grammie: No, the weather there is really more even. No ups and downs. Because you’re

on the coastline. Like your father says, “Why did you ever choose this country?! Why

didn’t you go somewhere where it was warm!”

Everyone laughs

Grammie: I tell him “well I had no say in that.”

Everyone laughs

Grammie: I don’t think any of our kids are winter people. None of them are happy in the

cold.

Hillary: I know none of the grandkids are winter people.

Grammie: Some people just love the winter and the cold, and we’d rather just observe it

from inside. It’s just not in our genes. *laughs* Other then that the storms in Ontario

were terrible. That would be my main thing. The thunderstorms. They are… you know

like once in a while you might get a thunderstorm around here maybe for half-an-hour or

an hour with the thunder loud, but over there (Ontario) they would last overnight. I can

remember hiding under my blankets, completely terrified.

Jane: The environment would have been the biggest change.

Grammie: Yes, the environment. It was a BIG change. The cold, the heat, the incessant

storms, they had tornados- just that year we came to Ontario they had a tornado. And

apparently a couple years after we moved two farmers died because of a tornado, they

were just picked up and killed.

Jane: Wow.

Grammie: Yes. Climate would be the biggest. Because the people you didn’t have that

much contact with because you lived you in your own community kind of an idea. Most

were farmers. Those were the only people they let in in those days. You had to be a

farmer.

Hillary: The government had different requirements for allowing people to come.

Grammie: If you were not a farmer, or worked on a farm, you were not allowed, you

couldn’t come in. That’s why some of the people around here, and around there (Ontario)

as well, they said they were farmers or from a farm but really never were. The people that

came at that time, Canada was looking for farmers. That’s what they were looking for.

Those are the only people they would really let in in those days...

Hillary: Did you notice any differences in how Canadians farmer’s farmed and how

Dutch farmers farmed?

Grammie: Uh... probably. But of course the Dutch farmers were not used to all the

tractors and that kind of equipment. They were used to smaller farms. They were still

using you know… horse and things like that to do the fieldwork. And they might have

had that sort of equipment before the war but I don’t know. I know after the war they

didn’t. So when I think about New Ross farms I’m like “Oh I can remember that I don’t

need New Ross farm to remind me!”

Everyone laughs

Grammie: That’s how it was.

Hillary: Did you guys have plumbing and electricity in the Netherlands?

Grammie: We had no electricity where we lived. What we had was like the lanterns you

use for camping. *Couple minutes trying to find English word because she only knew

Dutch word off the top of her head* AH! Butane! It was butane lighting. And you had

them on the ceilings. The stove would also be powered by this.

Hillary: So when you came to Canada did you have electricity right away?

Grammie: Oh yes, they had that just about everywhere in Ontario in those days.

Jane: Didn’t you have bread delivered to you in the Netherlands?

Grammie: Oh yes in the Netherlands.

Hillary: So that would have been a big change for your mother.

Grammie: Oh yes, my mother had never baked before coming here. It was all delivered to

your house in the Netherlands, so she had to learn. But you could buy bread here; though

it wasn’t the type of bread you were used to, like fresh bread. Groceries were delivered to

your house, but most things you already had on the farm, like milk, vegetables, fruits, you

had your own.

Hillary: So you would call in your order to the store and they’d deliver?

Grammie: Oh yes. You could get whatever.

Hillary: That would be convenient since most people didn’t have a vehicle.

Grammie: In Europe the people lived off of bread in those days. And since people where

I lived already had things like potatoes and vegetables in the farm they didn’t need to

purchase it. Baked good would be specialty things.

Hillary: What was your worst experience in those first few years in Canada?

Grammie: Nothing really. When you’re 10 you can have bad experiences everyday

*Everyone laughs*

Grammie: It was pretty good for me. Some things we weren’t used to were holidays here,

like Halloween. *laughs*

Hillary: What was your first Halloween like?

Grammie: When we moved to Nova Scotia the people dressed up and going all around

the house and we didn’t know what was going on! “Why are those people…??”

Hillary: They wouldn’t have done that in Ontario because you were all from the same

place.

Grammie: Yes, no one celebrated Halloween in the Netherlands at that time and we

didn’t live near any Canadians in Ontario. So the first time was when we moved to Port

Williams.

Hillary: That must have been shocking, kids walking around in costumes.

Grammie: Yes and knocking on the door and we didn’t know why. I would say that was

embarrassing.

*Everyone laughs*

Jane: So you didn’t have anything like that.

Grammie: Not in the Netherlands or Ontario. And we didn’t have Christmas like they do

over here neither. So I’m the first one to have a Christmas like we do today. Because our

Christmas was on December 6th, that’s when Santa Claus would bring the gifts. Actual

Christmas time was strictly religious you would go to church. We’d never had a

Christmas tree. Maybe the Dutch nearer to the German border did but I’d never seen a

Christmas tree until we came to Canada. Our first Christmas tree was sometime while we

were in Ontario.

Hillary: On December 6th what kind of presents would you get?

Grammie: When I grew up you would have gotten something like a candy or sugar

candy. Nothing major. I never had a doll.

Hillary: Really?

Grammie: No, my first doll I got with my sister. A shared doll we got in Canada. I never

had a doll in Holland. Never.

Hillary: Do you remember anyone having a doll where you lived?

Grammie: No.

Hillary: So what did you play when you were a kid?

Grammie: Oh we’d play in the woods. Well I had 7 brothers, and two of my sisters were

way older and my younger sister was way younger so I played with the boys. Played

rabbit. I got shot over here *points to forehead*

*Jane + Grammie laugh*

Hillary: What?

Grammie: It looks like a wrinkle now but one of those wrinkles is actually a scar. One of

my brothers made an arrow out of a stick with a seashell attached to it and we were

playing rabbit and he shot me.

*Everyone laughs*

Grammie: That’s what you played; you played with whatever was around. Like

hopscotch. When they’d get older they’d play darts.

Hillary: So it took you guys a few years to get all your papers in order and examinations

done?

Grammie: Oh yes that would have taken years. We would have gone earlier, we went in

’53, but I don’t know exactly when they started the preparations but I know my father

went to France to look and see if he would go over there because a lot of people were

going to France as well because they needed people over there, but he didn’t care for

France.

Will start transcribing when we get back on topic.

Grammie: As a 10 year old you have your family and if your family is ok then you’re ok.

It all depends on how your parents react to the whole situation. Moving.

Hillary: So they reacted pretty good?

Grammie: I would say so, yes. It’s when you’re older then you know the difference. At

10 you don’t think about that. It probably just a big excitement. You’re going on a plane,

and you’re here and there. Like you’re going on vacation. You don’t really realize you’re

not coming back.