Value flowing to COPA without negative sign @ the time of VA88. This question has been Answered.

Radhakanta Sahoo Dec 22, 2011 8:47 AM

Hi Gurus,

 

When i settle the sales order through VA88 the value is flowing to COPA but without taking negative sign.

 

I have a negative condition type in my sales order(accrual),when i use the same condition type in MTS scenario  the value is flowing to COPA with negative sign(Record typeF) but when i use the same conition type and settle the same through VA88 the value is flowing to COPA in *positive*(record type C).

 

Note:- I have marked the "+/- transfer " indicator in KE4I .

 

I have gone throw few threads but still not sure whether at the time of sales order settlement ,if i have marked the "+/- transfer " indicator in KE4I  then value will flow to copa in negative or not?

 

It is very urgent please help me in this regard.

Correct Answer by Waman Shirwaicar  on Dec 22, 2011 11:58 AM

Hi,

   Yes KE4I has no impact on sign logic in settlement; its only for COPA posting via billing.

 

Your understanding about the sign logic in settlement is  correct.

 

Regarding sign logic during SD billing here is some additional info:

 

Please, consider the following information regarding the sign in CO-PA documents with origin in billing documents.

The "Transfer +/- sign" indicator should be used selectively for those individual condition types that

 

1.

Can have both negative and positive values (This is especially the case with condition types that can represent a revenue surcharge or a revenue reduction.)

 

2.

Occur more than once in a billing document and produce both debit postings and credit postings (This is the case when reserves are created or resolved, as described in OSS note 37114.)

If you select the "Transfer +/- sign" indicator, the system calculates a  balance of the positive and negative values for that condition type.

This ensures that the correct total for that condition type is shown in the corresponding value field.

 

The following table shows an overview of how condition values are updated in CO-PA for billing documents from SD:

 

Billing document (normal) "With +/- sign"    "Without +/- sign"

 

Debit posting                          negative           positive

  (such as sales deductions)

 

Credit posting                         positive           positive

  (such as sales revenues)

 

 

Credit memo/return       "With +/- sign"    "Without +/- sign"

 

 

Debit posting                          negative           negative

  (such as sales revenues)

 

Credit posting                         positive           negative

  (such as sales deductions)

 

regards

Waman

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Re: Value flowing to COPA without negative sign @ the time of VA88.

Waman Shirwaicar Dec 22, 2011 9:06 AM (in response to Radhakanta Sahoo)

Hi,

The +/- sign in KE4I is only for transfer of values from the billing documents in COPA.

The sign of a value field in CO-PA for the settlement of orders, projects is always determined depending on the cost element type of the cost element/account.

 

The logic is as follows for record type C:

 

                           sign in CO-PA for postings

cost element type            debit          credit

    11                                    -               +

    others                              +               -

 

The logic of settlement into CO-PA works like this:

 

1.) The first step is that all values are transferred from the sender as they were posted in the database on this side

    On the sender side all debits have '+' sign and all credits have    a '-' sign no matter what cost element type is used.

    Usually costs are posted as debit with cost element type '1'    and revenues as credits with cost element type '11'.

 

2.) The second step reverses the sign of all cost elements with type    '11' (and exclusively those).

 

    The intention is to have only positive values in CO-PA to be used in reporting. (There you can set up rules what needs to be added or subtracted).

 

    Note 369378 explains the logic and provides a workaround.

 

regards

Waman

o Report Abuse o Like (0) o Re: Value flowing to COPA without negative sign @ the time of VA88.

Radhakanta Sahoo Dec 22, 2011 10:46 AM (in response to Waman Shirwaicar)

Hi Waman,

 

Thanks a lot for your immediate response.

 

As per your provided information i can guess that ,as the sales condition types are mapped to value field in KE4I by activating the "+/- indicator" hence at the time of billing the value flowing to COPA directly and transfering the sign also i.e. if any negative condition type(accrual ) then the value is flowing to COPA as negative.

 

In case of settlement of sales order(VA88) there is no impact of activation of "+/- indicator" in KE4I rather it purely depends on the cost element category used for that condition type based on the belwo mentioned rules.

 

12: Credit in FI = Minus in COPA (i.e. Cr memo/returns)

Debit in FI = +ve in COPA

________________________________________

11: Credit in FI = +ve in COPA

Debit in FI = Minus in COPA (i.e. Cr memo/returns)

________________________________________

01: Credit in FI = Minus in COPA

Debit in FI = +ve in COPA

 

Finally we can derive the net realisation for recoed type C by using some formula in the report(KE30).

 

Please confirm me to accept my above statement for which i will give you points.

Report Abuse Like (0) Correct Answer Re: Value flowing to COPA without negative sign @ the time of VA88.

Waman Shirwaicar Dec 22, 2011 11:58 AM (in response to Radhakanta Sahoo)

Hi,

   Yes KE4I has no impact on sign logic in settlement; its only for COPA posting via billing.

 

Your understanding about the sign logic in settlement is  correct.

 

Regarding sign logic during SD billing here is some additional info:

 

Please, consider the following information regarding the sign in CO-PA documents with origin in billing documents.

The "Transfer +/- sign" indicator should be used selectively for those individual condition types that

 

1.

Can have both negative and positive values (This is especially the case with condition types that can represent a revenue surcharge or a revenue reduction.)

 

2.

Occur more than once in a billing document and produce both debit postings and credit postings (This is the case when reserves are created or resolved, as described in OSS note 37114.)

If you select the "Transfer +/- sign" indicator, the system calculates a  balance of the positive and negative values for that condition type.

This ensures that the correct total for that condition type is shown in the corresponding value field.

 

The following table shows an overview of how condition values are updated in CO-PA for billing documents from SD:

 

Billing document (normal) "With +/- sign"    "Without +/- sign"

 

Debit posting                          negative           positive

  (such as sales deductions)

 

Credit posting                         positive           positive

  (such as sales revenues)

 

 

Credit memo/return       "With +/- sign"    "Without +/- sign"

 

 

Debit posting                          negative           negative

  (such as sales revenues)

 

Credit posting                         positive           negative

  (such as sales deductions)

 

regards

Waman

Report Abuse Like (0) Re: Value flowing to COPA without negative sign @ the time of VA88.

Radhakanta Sahoo Dec 23, 2011 6:47 AM (in response to Waman Shirwaicar)

Hi Waman,

 

I am really very much satisfied with your answer.

 

Could you  give me an example relating to your point#2 (Occur more than once in a billing document and produce both debit postings and credit postings (This is the case when reserves are created or resolved).

 

Secondly could you please share your e-mail id .

 

Regards,

Debadutta

Report Abuse Like (0) Re: Value flowing to COPA without negative sign @ the time of VA88.

Waman Shirwaicar Dec 23, 2011 7:16 AM (in response to Radhakanta Sahoo)

Hi,

   You are welcome.

   Regarding an example you can read notes 52849 and 33178. I think an SD consultant would be able to explain you better. I have seen these type of conditions in some billing documents but i do not know how they originate.

   Reagrding email i am sorry but as per SCN rules we are not supposed to give our email

 

regards

Waman

Wrong sign in COPA for rebate conditions This question is Assumed Answered.

carmine mancusi Jul 18, 2007 2:36 PM

Hi financial gurus,

i'm getting problems once trying to send in copa values related to Rebate conditions.

To be more exact i mapped the rebate condition type with a COPA value field and once issuing an invoice data are retrieved and sent to a COPA document: the problem is that the value is with sign minus and as far as i read from oss it's not correct. workaround directly in reporting is not possible since these value fileds are also feeded by excel file and copa condition records.

Could me help on that

Any useful help will be largely awarded

Regards

Carmine

Helpful Answers by Dave Scarpino, Rajaraman Ramachandran  430 Views

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Helpful Answer Re: Wrong sign in COPA for rebate conditions

Dave Scarpino Jul 18, 2007 3:05 PM (in response to carmine mancusi)

In COPA tcode KE4I you can set how the condition posts to COPA as a plus or as a minus. You can change how it posts to COPA. Use - Transfer condition values with +/- signs to CO-PA.

 

pls assign points to say thanks.

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carmine mancusi Jul 18, 2007 3:13 PM (in response to Dave Scarpino)

Dave

i set that indicator in KE 41otherwise posting of rebate condition would be not possible.

Do u have any other idea?

Regards

C*

Report Abuse Like (0) Re: Wrong sign in COPA for rebate conditions

Dave Scarpino Jul 18, 2007 3:18 PM (in response to carmine mancusi)

The indicator has to have no check mark. That is what reverses the sign.

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Helpful Answer Re: Wrong sign in COPA for rebate conditions

Rajaraman Ramachandran Jul 18, 2007 3:27 PM (in response to carmine mancusi)

Hi,

 

In KE41, Uncheck the box 'Transfer +/-' for the Rebate condition types.

 

In SD rebates which are Sales dedductions are stored as -ve values and these are passed as -ve values into COPA, if the 'Transfer +/-' is checked, while if you uncheck the 'Transfer +/-' checkbox, these are passed as +ve values into COPA.

 

Below is a sunmmary of the value flow into COPA both with & without the +/- sign.

 

Billing document (normal) "With +/- sign"    "Without +/- sign"

-

 

Debit posting                         negative           positive

(sales deductions)

 

Credit posting                        positive           positive

(sales revenues)

 

 

Credit memo/return       "With +/- sign"    "Without +/- sign"

-

 

Debit posting                         negative           negative

(sales deductions)

 

 

Credit posting                        positive           negative

(sales revenues)

 

 

Regards,

 

Assign points if useful.

Report Abuse Like (0) Re: Wrong sign in COPA for rebate conditions

carmine mancusi Jul 19, 2007 10:41 AM (in response to Rajaraman Ramachandran)

Guys

the box 'Transfer +/-'  cannot be unchecked since otherwise i can post the invoice (please look at the oss note 670089)

I'm in a very bad situation since

-if i set the indicator i get wrong sign

-if i do not set the indicator i cannot post the invoice

-i cannot change the sign in reporting since the value field is also fed in some different manner (file,ke41 ecc..)

Any other input?

Thanks a lot for the support

Regards

C*

Report Abuse Like (0) Re: Wrong sign in COPA for rebate conditions

Dave Scarpino Jul 19, 2007 2:52 PM (in response to carmine mancusi)

Two other options. 1) If you have COPA in BW switch the sign there. 2) In user exit  include ZXKKEU03 switch the sign as the data is posting.

Report Abuse Like (0) Re: Wrong sign in COPA for rebate conditions

carmine mancusi Jul 19, 2007 5:20 PM (in response to Dave Scarpino)

Dave

thanks for the hint.

I got one more question: The value field that i'm feeding through to the mapping between condition type and value field is fed also by tcode KE41 (COPA condition type). The values coming from COPA conditions type are found with the right sign.

can i, in your opinion, distinguish the flow in the user exit and just convert the sign of values coming through the mapping condition type-copa?

Thanks and regards

Carmine

Report Abuse Like (0) Re: Wrong sign in COPA for rebate conditions

Praveen Natarajan Jul 19, 2007 5:35 PM (in response to carmine mancusi)

This is standard SAP behaviour.

 

Any posting to COPA from SD follow the SD signs and not the FI signs. E.g. Revenues posted from SD will appear in COPA as + whereas in FI it is -.

 

This matter has to be addressed in your reporting. All posting from SD come with teh record type F. So for any posting with record type F you need to mulitply by -1 to arrive at the same values as FI.

 

The user exit can be used, but then this issue relates not only to rebates, but also to revenues and deductions posted from SD.

 

Praveen.

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Re: Wrong sign in COPA for rebate conditions

Dave Scarpino Jul 19, 2007 6:16 PM (in response to carmine mancusi)

In the user exit it is for billing document postings and you wil be able to limit your selection to any type of the various billing transactions and types.

COPA Sign Handling This question is Assumed Answered.

Krishna Mohan Pasumarthi Mar 16, 2011 6:22 PM

Hi I have gone through some threads already...and understood how sign handling works but I still have some questions.

 

My current setting +/- not turned on in KE4I

1) I have a sales deduction on a billing document that comes as a +ve value in COPA and IF I  create a creditmemo for the same same sales deduction, -ve value flows to COPA. In reporting values from Billing and Values from Credit memo net off each other becasue of different signs.

Even If I turn on +/- in KE4I, it doesnt help cause the scenarios will be just oposite.

 

2) For the same sale deduction If I make a FI posting a +ve value flows to COPA as its an expense with CE category 12.

How can we achieve the consistancy across all sources. Under what circumstances having multiple value fileds help.

 

Thanks

KP

Helpful Answers by Ajay Maheshwari - Freelance SAP Trainer, Ajay Maheshwari - Freelance SAP Trainer, Nikolas John, Nikolas John, Piet Strydom, Piet Strydom 

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Helpful Answer Re: COPA Sign Handling

Ajay Maheshwari - Freelance SAP Trainer Mar 16, 2011 7:02 PM (in response to Krishna Mohan Pasumarthi)

Hi

 

your questions covers 2 aspects

 

1. Sign Logic in COPA w.r.t. Cost Ele Categories

 

12: Credit in FI = Minus in COPA

      Debit in FI = +ve in COPA

-

11:  Credit in FI = +ve in COPA

      Debit in FI = Minus in COPA

-

01: Credit in FI = Minus in COPA

      Debit in FI = +ve in COPA

 

2. +/- indicator in KE4I -

 

This is used when same value field is repeated twice in Your Pricing Procedure i.e. the val field is assigned to 2 cond types, and both the cond types have +ve value and -ve value respectively... Say, 100 and -20

 

In that case, activating +/- sign in KE4I - would net off the value and post 80 to COPA...

 

If you dont activate the +/- sign in KE4I - The value posted to COPA would be 120

 

br, Ajay M

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Krishna Mohan Pasumarthi Mar 16, 2011 7:35 PM (in response to Ajay Maheshwari - Freelance SAP Trainer)

Thanks Ajay -

 

I understood that, my requirement is like this I have a value filed VV120 - Trade allowances, these allowances can be off invoice or through a credit memo. e.g. I have invoice in which this allowance is 100$, I see a postive $100 in COPA. I have a credit memo for 50$, based on a reason code the condition value in credit memo has hit same Trade allowance VV120 - in this case it will be

-50$. In reporting total allowances show as $50, but the total allowacnes given are  $150. How do we handle this.

 

Thanks

Krishna

Report Abuse Like (0) Helpful Answer Re: COPA Sign Handling

Ajay Maheshwari - Freelance SAP Trainer Mar 16, 2011 7:41 PM (in response to Krishna Mohan Pasumarthi)

Hey

 

You have given net allowances of 50 - Thats what the report is showing to you in KE30.. You seem to have made this report from KE34/Ke31

 

If you make a line item report from KE91, you can show 100 and -50 separately

 

br, Ajay M

Report Abuse Like (0) Re: COPA Sign Handling

Krishna Mohan Pasumarthi Mar 16, 2011 9:05 PM (in response to Ajay Maheshwari - Freelance SAP Trainer)

Our reporting is going to come from BI, but the data is inconsistant right. We cant distinguish by line becasue the recod type in both the cases will be 'F"

it looks so fundamental. I dont know where am i going wrong. Further thoughts will be apreciated.

 

Thanks

Krishna

Report Abuse Like (0) Helpful Answer Re: COPA Sign Handling

Nikolas John Mar 17, 2011 9:09 AM (in response to Krishna Mohan Pasumarthi)

We solved the same problem by simply using two different value fields for values that come from SD and those that come from FI. In reports, the two value fields are shown in one line with formular "value field A - value field B"

I have never come acreoss an alternative solution.

Report Abuse Like (0) Re: COPA Sign Handling

Krishna Mohan Pasumarthi Mar 18, 2011 3:29 PM (in response to Nikolas John)

Thanks Nikolas -

 

What you have explained works for posting from SD & FI. Here my issues is within SD. Let me explain, I have discount condition type in billing document which is assigned to a value filed and that goes as a positive value in COPA ($100). If we have to give exact same discount to the customer in the form of a creditmemo with same condition type, that goes to COPA as a negative value (-$50). Total dicount given to customer is $150 but the report shows $50 because of the sign inconsistncy. is there something wrong in my design.

 

Thanks

KP

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Nikolas John Mar 18, 2011 3:45 PM (in response to Krishna Mohan Pasumarthi)

Ok, thanks for clarifying the point.

 

I think your issue may be with the following setting:

 

in TC Ke4I "COPA: Assignment of SD conditions to value fields" the is a column labelled "Transfer +/-".

If you mark one of those check boxes and hit F1 to see the documentation, you will read that not ticking that checkbox results in exactly the behaviour you describe:

a credit posting from a billing document will results in a reverse sign in COPA compared to a credit posting from a credit memo. Same for debit postings.

 

So I'd say you should consider ticking that check-box for the conditions types that are used both in credit memos and billing documents (but only after examining if that might have other, undesired consequences).

 

Regards

Nikolas

Report Abuse Like (0) Re: COPA Sign Handling

Krishna Mohan Pasumarthi Mar 18, 2011 4:44 PM (in response to Nikolas John)

Thanks again -

 

If I Check that +/- check box, discounts from billing docuemt goes to COPA as negative and From creditmemo to COPA as positive. It would give the same inconsistant result as I explained. Just to give you more info..our credit memos work like this:

They are stand alone documents with out referring to Billing document ( mostly), with only one condition type. Condition value is entered manually and a reason code is selected. Based on the reaosn code,  COPA user exit 005 assigns right value field. any thoughts ?

 

Thanks

KP

Report Abuse Like (0) Helpful Answer Re: COPA Sign

Handling

Piet Strydom Mar 21, 2011 10:59 PM (in response to Krishna Mohan Pasumarthi)

This is probably the most confusing part in SAP....

 

The way that I have caified it in my mind is that the system tries to keep the sign in COPA positive.

 

So for revenue (price) condition types, a CR in FI will be positive in COPA

 

For discount (Discount) condition types, a DT in FI will be positive in COPA

 

For direct postings, assessments and

settlements, a DT in FI will be positive in COPA

 

Now for the exceptions:

For expense reimbursements - I have always only used it as part of accruals, then the +/- indicator needs to be on, and then the sign behaves like it does for revenues.

 

If a condition type can be either positive or negative, OR

if a condition type appears more than once in a pricing procedure, with differing signs,

then the +/- indicator also needs to be switched on.

 

What I am busy doing is building a spreadsheet with all possible combinations of condition class, poting in FI and =/- indicator, with postings that actually takes place. Hopefully

I will understand it once I have a complete scenario.

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Helpful Answer Re: COPA Sign Handling

Piet Strydom Mar 30, 2011 9:30 PM (in response to Piet Strydom)

And I just found another exception, If you do a direct posting with a Cost element category 11, a CT in FI, will be a positive in COPA.

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Krishna Mohan

Pasumarthi Mar 31, 2011 1:32 AM (in response to Piet Strydom)

This is what I concluded finally - When we create a credit memo with out referencing a billing document we ought to have a condition type that needs a value to be entered manually and that condition type has to

be of 'price in nature' not a discount in nature in SD then only customer get credit. So, weather I put '+/-' on or off, COPA will still get a -ve value coz it is just like revenue due to the nature of condition type. My requirement was, 1) to have this credit given to customer

through Cr memo treated as discount and at the same time I also have the same dicount value field gets value from billing. What I did: Through user exit COPA005, I am having the sign reversed in COPA. Thanks for your help.

KP

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Re: COPA Sign Handling

Ajay Maheshwari - Freelance SAP

Trainer Mar 31, 2011 6:14 AM (in response to

Krishna Mohan Pasumarthi)

Hi Krishna

 

See No

te 52849 - INFO- Transfer of conditions with +

- signs..... It explains very beautifully and

also a summary at the end

 

Also see, Note 33

178 - INFO + & - sign logic in CO-PA SD-FI int

erface.. It says that manual postings from FI

to COPA has to mapped differently than SD post

ings

 

br, Ajay M

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R e: COPA S

ign Handling

Piet Strydom Mar 31, 2011 5:17 PM (in response to Ajay Maheshwari - Freelance SAP Trainer)

Hi Ajay,

 

Note 52849 would have been MUCH more useful if SAP had just

gone to the next level of detail, and specified which kind of posting each condition class is (E.g. Discounts, vs prices vs taxes vs Expense reimbursements) rather than the generic 'revenues' and "discouns" it currently uses.

 

And also, what the influence of

the positive/negative/positive and negative indicator on the condition type is.

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Re: COPA Sign Handling

Ajay Maheshwari - Freelance SAP Trainer Mar 31, 2011 5:48 PM (in response to Piet Strydom)

Hi

 

I think we have a prof obligation to raise an OSS note to SAP to update the note with the desired information to

make it more comprehensive...

 

I wish the moderators who are SAP employees are watching this thread and can help us out in getting this done...

 

br, Ajay M

Debit/Credit Memo This question is Assumed Answered.

sri sri Dec 8, 2009 12:19 PM

Hi Guys,

 

What do we mean by a Debit Memo and a Credit Memo?

 

What does the word Memo stand for and in what occasions do we issue a Debit Memo and Credit Memo?

 

Is it done for both the Vendors and Customers ? Please let me know the transaction codes for the same.

 

Thanks,

srikanth.

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Re: Debit/Credit Memo

Chintan Joshi Dec 8, 2009 12:33 PM (in response to sri sri)

Dear,

 

Let's take an example.

 

Customer 1000 purchased 1000 units @Rs10 worth Rs. 10,000. Now after the billing was done, customer returned 150 quantities due to some reason. Now you can make changes to the invoice so that company will raise Credit Memo for the customer for Rs. 1500.

 

Interest charges on customer for payment after due date is Debit Memo.

 

Don't confuse with word Memo sometimes Credit Memo and Debit Memo are also refereed to Credit Note and Debit Note.

 

Regards,

Chintan Joshi.

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Re: Debit/Credit Memo

Bhabani Sankar Dash Dec 8, 2009 12:49 PM (in response to sri sri)

Hi Srikanth,

 

1st part of your Question is What is Debit Memo & Credit Memo :

 

So any transaction that reduces the amount receivables from a Customer is called a Credit Memo. Example : ( 1 ) A customer can retun a damaged goods,( 2) Reduction of price,( 3 ) Reduction of Tax etc..

 

And any transaction that reduces Amount Payable to vendor is Called Debit Memo e.g : ( 1 ) Goods return to Vendor etc..

 

2nd Part of your Question : Why it is called a Debit Memo..

 

Since exchange of returned amount does not take place immediately so a small note is being attached alonwith the returned goods mentioning date, lot,batch, nos, date etc in that note to the Vendors from which the Co. has purchased goods from the Vendor is being made. So the Vendor could know that this much of goods / priced goods is being received by him.

 

Broad difference between Debit Memo & Credit Memo is Credit Memo is Sales / Customer certric & Debit Memo is Vendor / Purchase Centric..

 

Similarly for Credit Memo...

 

3r Part : Transaction Codes for Debit Memo / Credit Memo is : FB75 / F-27 ( Credit Memo ) & FB65 /F-41( Debit Memo )

 

Regards,

Bhabani S Dash

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Prasad Reddy Dec 7, 2011 1:59 AM (in response to Bhabani Sankar Dash)

Excellent Mr dash..Was very helpfull

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