transcript of statements - hinesville

8/9/2019 Transcript of Statements - Hinesville

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·In The M atter Of :

·In Re: Pa lmetto Pipel ine

________________________________________________________

Transcr ipt of Statem ents

M arch 05, 2015

________________________________________________________

Tiffany A l ley G lobal Report ing & Video

730 P eachtree St reet NE

Suite 470

At lanta, GA 3 0308

770.343.9696

www.t i f fanyal ley.com


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· · · · · · · · · · · · PUBLIC HEARING

· · ·IN RE:· PALMETTO PIPELINE

· · · · · · · · · TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

· · · · · · · · · · · · March 5, 2015

· · · · · · · · · · · · · 5:05 p.m.

· · · · · · · · · ·742 General Stewart Way

· · · · · · · · · · ·Hinesville, Georgia

· · · · · · · · Tracy A. Williams, B-2168, RPR

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·1· · · · · · · · · APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:

·2· ·On behalf of Kinder Morgan:

·3· · · · · · ANDREW MUTTER, ESQ.

·4· · · · · · King & Spalding

·5· · · · · · 1180 Peachtree Street, N.E.

·6· · · · · · Atlanta, Georgia· 30309-3521

·7· · · · · · (404) 572-4705

·8· · · · · · ALAN FORE

·9· · · · · · BRIAN S. WILLIAMS, P.E.

10· · · · · · Kinder Morgan

11· · · · · · Suite 450

12· · · · · · 1000 Windward Concourse

13· · · · · · Alpharetta, Georgia· 30005

14· · · · · · (770) 751-4248

15· ·On behalf of the Georgia Department of

16· · · Transportation:

17· · · · · · MICHAEL J. BOLDEN, States Utility Engineer

18· · · · · · Georgia Department of Transportation

19· · · · · · 10th Floor

20· · · · · · 600 West Peachtree Street, N.W.

21· · · · · · Atlanta, Georgia· 30308

22· · · · · · (404) 631-1354

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In Re: Palmetto Pipeline Transcript of Statements

770-343-9696 Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline Transcript of Statements 03/05/2015

770-343-9696 Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video Page 2

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·1· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Good evening.· Thank you so

·2· ·much for coming out.· My name is Andrew Mutter.· And

·3· ·I am an attorney with King & Spalding.· We represent

·4· ·Kinder Morgan through this process.· Now, the purpose

·5· ·of tonight is to give an opportunity for a public

·6· ·hearing in this area regarding Kinder Morgan's

·7· ·pipeline and give you a sense of what their plans

·8· ·are.· They're going to present to you, for about 15

·9· ·to 20 minutes, to give you an overview of the plans

10· ·and a bird's-eye view of the project, and then we're

11· ·going to present an opportunity for you to formally

12· ·submit comments.

13· · · · · · We have a court reporter here.· She'll be

14· ·transcribing the hearing tonight.· We ask in order to

15· ·create a record that will be preserved and then

16· ·presented to the Georgia Department of Transportation

17· ·as a part of Kinder Morgan's applications for

18· ·certificate of convenience and necessity, we ask that

19· ·you come to the front -- raise your hand, I'll

20· ·indicate for you to come to the front so that she can

21· ·hear you clearly.· And you can make your comment or

22· ·question or objection, and Kinder Morgan will have an

23· ·opportunity to respond and try to address your

24· ·concerns.· We ask that you please state your name to

25· ·the court reporter and spell it and give your address





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·1· ·so that we have a record of who you are and we're

·2· ·able, in conjunction with the Georgia Department of

·3· ·Transportation, to address your comments.

·4· · · · · · Now, you have multiple opportunities to

·5· ·make comments during this process.· This is the very

·6· ·beginning first phase of securing the applications of

·7· ·the permits that Kinder Morgan needs for this

·8· ·project.· You can make your formal comment here in

·9· ·this hearing.· You can also write on the sign-in

10· ·sheet any comments that you might have, and you can

11· ·also write in to King & Spalding any written comments

12· ·that you might have within -- well, to be clear, the

13· ·Georgia Department of Transportation can rule on this

14· ·application at any time in the 90-day period after

15· ·the application is filed on February 13th.· So we

16· ·would encourage you to submit your written comments,

17· ·if you have any, promptly.· And that's another avenue

18· ·in which you can comment on this process.· Just make

19· ·sure -- yeah, that's all.

20· · · · · · I will come back up after Kinder Morgan has

21· ·made its presentation, and I will begin to moderate

22· ·the comment process.· After that comment process is

23· ·over, which we hope to end at 6:00 tonight -- we

24· ·started a little late to get more people to come in.

25· ·But around 6:15 or so, we'll try to wind down the





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·1· ·formal comment process, and Kinder Morgan is still

·2· ·going to make itself available to you if you have

·3· ·individual concerns and questions to talk to you on

·4· ·an individual basis about your concerns.· So with

·5· ·that, I'll pass it off to Alan Fore with Kinder

·6· ·Morgan.

·7· · · · · · MR. FORE:· Okay.· Thanks, Andrew.· Brian,

·8· ·you want to come up, too?· Alan Fore, vice-president

·9· ·with Kinder Morgan and Brian Williams, our project

10· ·director.· And what we want to do tonight is give you

11· ·some general information about our project and tell

12· ·you why we're proposing, what we're doing, how we're

13· ·proposing to do it, when we're proposing to do it and

14· ·then be happy to respond to your questions.

15· · · · · · And this really is the start of a lengthy

16· ·process for approval of our pipeline.· We are

17· ·proposing a project that we believe is good for the

18· ·area and good for energy security and energy

19· ·infrastructure in the region.· And then the

20· ·regulators, at the state and federal level, will

21· ·review our project and ultimately approve our

22· ·project.

23· · · · · · So a little bit about what we do first

24· ·before we get into the specifics of our project.

25· ·Kinder Morgan is a transportation company primarily.





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·1· ·We transport product.· That can be gasoline, diesel,

·2· ·jet fuel, natural gas, ethanol, other products, all

·3· ·across the country.· And this is a copy of your

·4· ·system map, represents 80,000 miles of pipeline

·5· ·transporting all types of product all across the

·6· ·country.· We're the largest pipeline transportation

·7· ·company in North America.· And in the state of

·8· ·Georgia, we have 3,000 miles of pipe currently in

·9· ·operation currently transporting product, and we have

10· ·done that successfully for many years.

11· · · · · · So transportation, we generally don't own

12· ·what's in the pipe.· We, much like a toll way, we

13· ·charge a transportation charge for a company to

14· ·transport products from Point A to Point B, and we're

15· ·the transportation component.· The pipeline that is

16· ·part of this overall project is our Plantation

17· ·system, which you can see here, beginning in

18· ·Louisiana and terminating up in the Washington, D.C.

19· ·area.· It's carrying gasoline, diesel and jet fuel

20· ·servicing all of the states it passes through and

21· ·airports, military bases, and now to gas stations

22· ·where you fill up your car.· That's what this

23· ·pipeline system currently does and has done it since

24· ·the 1940s.

25· · · · · · So this is -- this Plantation system is a





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·1· ·major, major energy driver and infrastructure driver

·2· ·and economic driver for the entire southeastern

·3· ·United States.· So our proposal that we're talking

·4· ·about now is an extension of our Plantation system.

·5· ·You can see here in black, not here in red, what

·6· ·we're proposing is to extend this system, to add on

·7· ·to this system in Belton, South Carolina, coming down

·8· ·to Jacksonville, Florida, also here in the Savannah

·9· ·area with additional product and additional resource

10· ·for the area.

11· · · · · · So a little closer look at our system

12· ·currently as it exists in Georgia, it is one of the

13· ·states where we have a large collection of various

14· ·assets, about 3,000 miles of pipe, 350 employees.· We

15· ·have a headquarters in Alpharetta and a lot of

16· ·activity from the natural gas and other businesses

17· ·here in the state.· Point being, what we're proposing

18· ·to do is something we have done with our pipeline

19· ·systems in various ways in Georgia for many, many

20· ·years.· Also, the project will be part of Florida,

21· ·the Jacksonville area, and part of South Carolina as

22· ·well.

23· · · · · · I'll start briefly on the project and Brian

24· ·will join.· So the overall project is about a

25· ·billion-dollar project.· 360 miles of pipe, as I





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·1· ·said, from Belton, South Carolina, terminating in

·2· ·Jacksonville, Florida.· And the way our projects work

·3· ·is we've been looking at a project like this for many

·4· ·years, and we need to meet two thresholds before we

·5· ·start the formal approval and regulatory process

·6· ·which is really what we've just started now.· In

·7· ·fact, this is the second meeting we've had on the

·8· ·project.· We were in Savannah last night, and we have

·9· ·three more of these next week, and likely we'll be

10· ·doing others to start talking about the project.· But

11· ·the actual development of it and the planning for it

12· ·has been really years in the making.· So we need to

13· ·know for certain that there is an interest in the

14· ·project from a commercial standpoint.

15· · · · · · I talked about we're a transport.· So in

16· ·order to invest a billion dollars, which is our money

17· ·invested in this project, we need to know that

18· ·there's a need for it.· How do we know there's a need

19· ·for it?· Well, we ask our shippers, those who are

20· ·going to put the actual product in the line or pay

21· ·for the product to be transported in the line, need

22· ·it.· And they show that need by signing up for

23· ·long-term agreements to ship.

24· · · · · · So before we've even started this

25· ·regulatory process, we have shippers signed up to





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·1· ·ship product on Day 1 when this pipeline is in

·2· ·service.· So there's the first piece, the commercial

·3· ·piece.· We have to know -- it's not if you build it,

·4· ·will they come.· It's make sure that there's enough

·5· ·interest in your pipeline to support it financially

·6· ·when it's built.· That's the first piece.

·7· · · · · · And the second piece is the regulatory

·8· ·piece, which is, is there a project that could be

·9· ·designed that can meet and exceed the regulatory

10· ·standards of the states that you're passing through?

11· ·So we've got several state agencies that are part of

12· ·this regulatory process and several federal agencies

13· ·that we'll talk about in just a minute.· Can you

14· ·design a project that can meet those standards and

15· ·actually be permitted?· So it has to be commercially

16· ·viable and permitable, and then we make the decision

17· ·to move forward on projects.

18· · · · · · So while this is new from a public

19· ·perspective, we've spent a lot of time and our

20· ·engineers and our environmental analysts and others,

21· ·designing a project that can meet and exceed those

22· ·standards so once we announce the project, we believe

23· ·we have.

24· · · · · · Now, the purpose of these meetings like

25· ·this is to help make our project better, to learn





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·1· ·more, to begin a survey process so we can make our

·2· ·project ultimately better.· But we believe that we

·3· ·have designed a project that meets those basic

·4· ·criteria.· I'll talk about the schedule and then --

·5· ·okay.· I'll talk about the specifics of our project.

·6· · · · · · So as you can see, we're right in the first

·7· ·part of the project with our outreach and initial

·8· ·introductions of the project to the public.

·9· ·Landowners have received communications, potential

10· ·landowners have received communications from the

11· ·company.· Those discussions are just beginning.

12· ·We'll continue refining our proposed route as we move

13· ·forward towards to the permitting process.

14· ·Potentially construction starting in '16 and in

15· ·service in 2017.· '17 in service, meaning the product

16· ·would be the gasoline, diesel would be flowing on the

17· ·pipeline.

18· · · · · · So with that, Brian, who is also one of our

19· ·top engineers as well as our project director, will

20· ·talk about the specifics of the project.

21· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· All right.· Alan mentioned

22· ·that one of the first things we have to do before

23· ·moving ahead on a project is satisfy the permitting

24· ·requirements and the commercial needs.· And the

25· ·pipeline is already -- already has subscriptions for





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·1· ·interested customers and commitments from those

·2· ·customers that would support it economically, so

·3· ·we've met that hurdle internally in order.

·4· · · · · · And the design of the pipeline is to

·5· ·accommodate up to 167,000 barrels a day through this

·6· ·system.· The pipe that we're talking about installing

·7· ·through Georgia would be 16 inches in diameter,

·8· ·single pipe, steel pipe, and it's buried through the

·9· ·entirety of the route.· Let's see what else we have,

10· ·here.

11· · · · · · There will be additional facilities along

12· ·the way where the Palmetto line takes off from

13· ·Plantation pipeline in Belton, South Carolina.· There

14· ·will be a tank farm and a pump station built, the

15· ·origin point pump station.· And then about every

16· ·90 miles or so, along the route, it will be another

17· ·pump station built.· And this will be an aboveground

18· ·pump station.· And, typically, those are on a site

19· ·that's somewhere around 2 to maybe 5 acres, and

20· ·those -- typically, the pipeline company would

21· ·purchase those and own those in fee rather than

22· ·negotiate an easement with the property owner.· So

23· ·that would be something that's -- would develop once

24· ·the route is finalized and once all of our hydraulic

25· ·analysis is completed.· We're still working through





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·1· ·some of those details and haven't sited those

·2· ·midpoint pump stations quite yet.

·3· · · · · · All right.· What else have we covered

·4· ·there?

·5· · · · · · MR. FORE:· It's underground.

·6· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· It's underground.· We've got

·7· ·that.· Sorry.· Last night, I forgot to tell people it

·8· ·was underground.· All right.

·9· · · · · · The route we're looking at from Belton to

10· ·north Augusta, South Carolina, where the pipeline

11· ·will deliver to an existing terminal and community

12· ·there and will connect to two existing terminals.

13· ·And then south of Augusta, the pipeline will cross

14· ·the Savannah River and then parallel, come west of

15· ·Savannah in this area near I-95 is where we would

16· ·intend to build a new terminal to service customers

17· ·who are interested in the Savannah market here.· And

18· ·this would be another place where the company has

19· ·identified a parcel of property that's available and

20· ·would buy that property and build this tank farm and

21· ·truck loading terminal.· And, of course, the

22· ·customers, at that point, would have trucking

23· ·companies to pick up the gasoline and diesel and such

24· ·and take it to the retail outlets.

25· · · · · · And then from Savannah, we work our way on





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·1· ·south and come into the Jacksonville area.· And at

·2· ·that point, we'd be going into existing terminals

·3· ·also in Jacksonville.· So there's only one new built

·4· ·terminal where trucks are loaded and that is in the

·5· ·Savannah market, outside of Savannah.· I'm sorry.

·6· · · · · · MR. FORE:· So the routing, too, that you

·7· ·can see, obviously, that the -- it's not a straight

·8· ·line from Belton down to Jacksonville.· And by

·9· ·design, we're looking at what potentially could be

10· ·the least impactful round, not that there won't be

11· ·impacts; but a lot of this line, over 80 percent, is

12· ·collocated.

13· · · · · · And what that means is adjacent to existing

14· ·infrastructure.· So maybe it's a power line or an

15· ·underground pipeline, something that's already there,

16· ·there's already a previous infrastructure development

17· ·in an area.· And we are trying to put our line

18· ·adjacent to that to provide less impacts to the

19· ·particular area.· Does that mean that's perfect or

20· ·that that will be our final configuration, no.· It

21· ·means that that's what, from what our initial data

22· ·and our initial review, which we spent a lot of time

23· ·doing it, has identified as our preferred route.· And

24· ·I'm sure there's some landowners here tonight, but in

25· ·consultation with individual landowners, resource





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·1· ·agencies, conservation groups and others, we'll

·2· ·further refine this and we may find in areas where we

·3· ·believe that a colocation is the best route.· There

·4· ·may be an alternative that is better.

·5· · · · · · So we're going to continue to make

·6· ·adjustments.· But to give you a perspective from the

·7· ·overall picture, colocation from a regulatory

·8· ·perspective is the preferred method.· So we're going

·9· ·through this process real quick into the regulatory

10· ·side having extensive consultations and have already

11· ·started those with these agencies and others, the

12· ·Army Corps of Engineers, U.S. Fish and Wildlife

13· ·Service, the State of Georgia DNR and the other

14· ·applicable regulatory agencies.· We're going to need

15· ·to secure a number of permits from all of these

16· ·agencies.· And part of that permitting process is to

17· ·talk about our routes, where we're going and how we

18· ·are constructing a particular area.· So that

19· ·discussion and dialogue is just getting started.

20· · · · · · So while, again, what we are proposing

21· ·today is what we believe to be a good route that

22· ·meets the commercial needs, getting our product to

23· ·the customers to serve the public and the permitting

24· ·need, which is that it can be permitted, that these

25· ·agencies can approve based upon the standards that





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·1· ·they have, we welcome input through the process to

·2· ·help make it better.

·3· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· And the route we're

·4· ·proposing here in Liberty County, you can see that

·5· ·we've skirted around the west side of Savannah.· This

·6· ·is on, again, existing utility quarters through this

·7· ·area and following power line quarters and the

·8· ·Cypress pipeline.

·9· · · · · · One thing that -- one thing that we do have

10· ·available, and we'll jump back here -- one thing we

11· ·do have available tonight is if folks are interested

12· ·in a more detailed look at where this might -- where

13· ·the route is in relationship to your property or

14· ·areas of concern, we can pull up Google Earth map and

15· ·take a look at that.· And if computers fail us, we'll

16· ·do it the old-fashioned way and we have aerial

17· ·photos.

18· · · · · · MR. FORE:· Let's go back here for just a

19· ·second.· So, obviously, breaking down our map into a

20· ·county level so you can see a more identifiable

21· ·quarter that we're looking at, let's talk about the

22· ·land aspect, too, a little bit.· And then I'll

23· ·mention that, and you can talk about the survey

24· ·process because that's an important part of this

25· ·dialogue and discussion is the individual landowners.





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·1· · · · · · And what we try to do in this process is

·2· ·we, first of all, transparing, education, information

·3· ·on all critical components to pipeline construction.

·4· ·What are you going to do?· How are you going to do

·5· ·it?· When are you going to do it?· What's it going to

·6· ·look like when you're done?· What is your maintenance

·7· ·and operation processes?

·8· · · · · · The good thing is that it won't be us just

·9· ·talking about it in Georgia because we've been doing

10· ·it for many, many years here in the state operating

11· ·the pipeline.· So it's going to be very similar to

12· ·what we have currently in the state.· But those

13· ·individual consultations with landowners, the width

14· ·of the right-of-way, the temporary workspace, we're

15· ·going to go over some of those pieces as well, the

16· ·survey process and how we take a closer look at the

17· ·land to determine the structurability and other

18· ·issues in that area.

19· · · · · · So what I want to -- the point I'm making

20· ·is that this is a consulting process between

21· ·landowner and the company.· The dialogue and the

22· ·discussion and what we really want to do is learn

23· ·individually by the uniqueness of property, and no

24· ·one knows that better than the individual landowners.

25· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· I don't think you need that





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·1· ·anymore.

·2· · · · · · MR. FORE:· No, I don't need that anymore.

·3· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Where we are in the process

·4· ·right now is conducting a central line survey for the

·5· ·proposed route that we've identified.· And as Alan

·6· ·mentioned, this is a very early step.· A number of

·7· ·you may have received letters asking for survey

·8· ·permission across your property, and that is that

·9· ·first step.· So we have an engineering survey firm

10· ·come through and lay out that center line, and in a

11· ·few weeks, we're going to follow that with some other

12· ·crews.· And these crews will have biologists,

13· ·wetlands experts, cultural resource because these are

14· ·some of the aspects we have to consider in routing

15· ·and these are some of the impacts that could lead to

16· ·having to reroute or adjust the pipeline,

17· ·potentially.

18· · · · · · And as Alan mentioned, there is -- it

19· ·really is a collaborative discussion with landowners

20· ·and acquiring easements for pipelines.· And at the

21· ·risk of belaboring the point, one of the things that

22· ·we did at the outset on this project is try to

23· ·minimize the impact by collocating our right-of-way

24· ·along the existing right-of-ways already.

25· · · · · · MR. FORE:· Okay.· We talked about the





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·1· ·regulatory process.· But, Brian, I think it would be

·2· ·helpful for you to talk a little bit, too, about

·3· ·construction and techniques and some of the things

·4· ·that we do in pipeline construction to try to address

·5· ·some of the concerns that are brought up here.

·6· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Sure.· We'll do that, and

·7· ·then once we break up, if anyone has questions about

·8· ·the construction process itself and some of the

·9· ·details, we've got a really nice poster in the back

10· ·that kind of walks through the various stages of how

11· ·the pipeline is built.

12· · · · · · The easements we're seeking are 50-foot

13· ·wide permanent easements, and there will be some

14· ·additional construction workspace that's just

15· ·temporary that we'll be seeking from landowners.· And

16· ·one of the things that we try to do and be very

17· ·careful about is how we do conduct the construction

18· ·of the pipeline in moving the topsoil off to the side

19· ·and preserving the topsoil before trenching in and

20· ·then covering the pipe and just bringing the topsoil

21· ·back and spreading it and re-establishing the

22· ·right-of-way.· And the mixtures we use for

23· ·re-establishing the right-of-way are determined by

24· ·state and sometimes down in the county level working

25· ·with the local agencies here to make sure we're not





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·1· ·introducing any non-negative species when we're

·2· ·restoring the right-of-way, some of the high-level

·3· ·type of discussion.

·4· · · · · · As Alan mentioned earlier, we're in the --

·5· ·we're still in the finalizing design phase, nailing

·6· ·down the route, and we would anticipate that the

·7· ·project will go to construction in the spring of 2016

·8· ·with operation about mid year of 2017.

·9· · · · · · MR. FORE:· As mentioned, construction, so

10· ·we anticipate a project of this size and scope to

11· ·have about 1,200 construction jobs.· And these are

12· ·temporary jobs that will be for the purposes of

13· ·constructing the pipeline, but significant economic

14· ·employment components to the project during

15· ·construction.· In addition, we expect somewhere

16· ·around 28 to 30 full-time positions to be associated

17· ·with the Palmetto pipeline project once it's in

18· ·service, so about 1,200 during construction, about 28

19· ·to 30 once we're in service.

20· · · · · · We also expect to significantly increase

21· ·the taxes that we're paying in the state.· Our

22· ·estimate for Liberty County taxing bodies is about

23· ·$450,000 to $500,000 a year in additional tax

24· ·revenue.· That's going to go to the taxing bodies,

25· ·not to the -- all to the county, but those will be





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·1· ·property taxes based upon the valuation of our pipes.

·2· ·So it's not a one-time thing.· Those will be ongoing

·3· ·payments.· And right now, we're currently paying a

·4· ·significant amount in Georgia as well, so it will be

·5· ·adding to our tax base in the region.

·6· · · · · · We also work closely with all the various

·7· ·state holders throughout the process, emergency

·8· ·responders, elected officials, and others.· We wanted

·9· ·to make sure that folks are educated about what this

10· ·pipeline is, what it carries, what we're doing.· And

11· ·we want to be good corporate and community partners

12· ·in the region, so we're working with your local and

13· ·state officials on that.

14· · · · · · And we've recently done some things in

15· ·Savannah with our terminal there, some donations and

16· ·investments in the community, and we certainly expect

17· ·to do that here in Liberty County and throughout the

18· ·routing project.

19· · · · · · So with that, Andrew, that's the formal

20· ·presentation.· We'll be happy to answer questions.

21· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Thank you, Alan.· So at this

22· ·time, again, we're going to open this up to formal

23· ·comments.· We do ask that you just stand right here

24· ·in front of the projector and let the court reporter

25· ·see you, be able to hear you clearly, and transcribe





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·1· ·your comments.· We do ask that one person speak at a

·2· ·time because anytime there's crossfire, it's a lot

·3· ·harder to make a transcript.· So we do ask that you

·4· ·wait patiently and contribute your comments in that

·5· ·way.

·6· · · · · · So with that, we'll start taking questions,

·7· ·if you want to raise your hand.· This gentleman here

·8· ·and then this gentleman in the back.· Yes, sir?

·9· · · · · · MR. SALTER:· My name?

10· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Name and where you're from,

11· ·your address.

12· · · · · · MR. SALTER:· I'm from

Jerry Salter, Jr.· I only have one

14· ·question.· You say proposed pipeline.· You're talking

15· ·about of the one existing --

16· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· I'm sorry.· Could you face

17· ·the audience so everybody else can hear?· I'm sorry.

18· ·The reporter gets the information, and I want

19· ·everybody to be able to hear.

20· · · · · · MR. SALTER:· You're talking about putting

21· ·down existing utility right-of-way like power lines

22· ·or something?

23· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Yes.

24· · · · · · MR. SALTER:· Do you know which power lines

25· ·you're going to cut down in Liberty County?


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·1· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Most of Liberty County is --

·2· · · · · · MR. SALTER:· One big power line that goes

·3· ·through --

·4· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· There is a large one.· We'll

·5· ·look at the detail.· But most of the routes

·6· ·throughout here is on the Cypress pipeline, which is

·7· ·a natural gas pipeline.

·8· · · · · · MR. SALTER:· The pump station is on what we

·9· ·call Talmadge Road?· Do you know what I'm talking

10· ·about?· Do you go by there?

11· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Yeah.

12· · · · · · MR. SALTER:· Is that what you're talking

13· ·about?

14· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· What I would like to do is,

15· ·this is such a detailed question, I would like to --

16· ·if you could stay for a few minutes after we break

17· ·up, I would like to zoom that one in on Google Earth

18· ·and let's make sure we're both talking about --

19· · · · · · MR. SALTER:· You're not coming in through

20· ·the gas lines, just maybe the power line or a gas

21· ·line, too, maybe.

22· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Well, we come into Savannah

23· ·along some power lines owned by Georgia Power, and

24· ·then we have a stretch that is on -- adjacent to I

25· ·believe it's the CFX railroad tracks.· And then we





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·1· ·get back on power lines, work our way around the

·2· ·airport and work our way onto the Cypress pipeline

·3· ·right-of-way.· So let's -- we'll trace that route and

·4· ·find the area of -- the specific spot you're

·5· ·interested in.

·6· · · · · · MR. SALTER:· Thank you.

·7· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· The gentleman in the back.

·8· · · · · · MR. STEWART:· I need to be looking what,

·9· ·that way?

10· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Uh-huh.· Well, the court

11· ·reporter needs to hear you and everybody else need to

12· ·hear you.

13· · · · · · MR. STEWART:· Okay.· Joseph E. Stewart,

14· · · I have a couple of questions.· No. 1, it

15· ·goes all the way to Jacksonville.· Is the United

16· ·States going to get anything out of the pipeline?

17· ·You know, when it leaves, does it go to a boat and

18· ·then it goes somewhere else?

19· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Well, in Jacksonville --

20· · · · · · MR. STEWART:· Yeah, we have customers who

21· ·are interested in connecting the pipeline to their

22· ·existing terminals in the Jacksonville area right off

23· ·the, what is that, St. John's.· And what I would

24· ·anticipate is that they will probably actually be

25· ·reducing some of the marine shipments that come in


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·1· ·now.· There's no -- Kinder Morgan certainly has no

·2· ·plans to facilitate export.

·3· · · · · · MR. STEWART:· I have a -- one other -- I

·4· ·have a couple of questions.· 28 full-time jobs, where

·5· ·will they will located?

·6· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· That's a great question.

·7· ·Thank you.· Most of those jobs will be in Georgia.

·8· ·And I forgot the exact count, we have --

·9· · · · · · MR. STEWART:· But where?

10· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Well, let me walk through

11· ·it.· I'm sorry.· I'm a little slow.· The pipeline

12· ·will be operated out of an existing control center in

13· ·Alpharetta, Georgia, north of Atlanta.· There will be

14· ·five pipeline controller positions filled there, and

15· ·there will be a scheduling person backing them up and

16· ·helping them sequence the scheduling plan for all

17· ·those movements and covering those shift jobs.· There

18· ·will be some other support people in Atlanta.· That's

19· ·another two or maybe three jobs.

20· · · · · · And then the rest of them are field jobs,

21· ·most of which are in Georgia.· There will only be a

22· ·few adds, and the number is maybe two or three, in

23· ·Belton; and the rest of the jobs will be in Georgia

24· ·with one possibly in the Jacksonville area.

25· · · · · · And where I would anticipate is that we





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·1· ·will wind up at this terminal we're talking about

·2· ·building for truck loading, that will have about four

·3· ·people.· That terminal we're looking is a little bit

·4· ·south of Richmond Hill area.· And then somewhere,

·5· ·probably a little bit north of that, wherever we wind

·6· ·up needing to put that pump station, there will also

·7· ·be a maintenance facility there.

·8· · · · · · And so there will be people with crafts,

·9· ·skilled crafts, like we'll need at least one

10· ·mechanical-type technician, an electrical person and

11· ·one, and possibly two, what we call right-of-way

12· ·specialists.· They're the guys that are always out

13· ·driving up and down and checking on the right-of-way.

14· · · · · · MR. STEWART:· Okay.· They're permanent

15· ·positions --

16· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· So most of them are --

17· · · · · · MR. STEWART:· Permanent.

18· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· -- right here.· Those are

19· ·permanent.

20· · · · · · MR. STEWART:· Okay.· Thank you.

21· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Yes, sir.

22· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Any further comments?

23· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· I do have a -- my name is

24· ·Charlie Milmine, and I'm actually a resident of

25· ·Savannah, but too many people at your meeting last





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·1· ·night.· I couldn't get in.

·2· · · · · · You make -- well, first of all, the process

·3· ·confuses me because in most cases like this one when

·4· ·the DOT is involved, we generally speak directly to

·5· ·the DOT.· Are there DOT people here?· I understand

·6· ·they are also hosting this, right?

·7· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Yes, sir.

·8· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Are you here in an official

·9· ·capacity?

10· · · · · · MR. BOLDEN:· I'm here just to watch.· The

11· ·DOT is not involved other than to check to make sure

12· ·they follow the procedure.· It's O.C.G.A. 22-3.

13· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Okay.· The reason I'm asking

14· ·that is that we're trusting you to make sure that our

15· ·words get there without being filtered, right?

16· · · · · · MR. BOLDEN:· Absolutely.

17· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· One of the things that you

18· ·showed or does show on your maps is the additional

19· ·pipeline that goes up north of your main pipeline

20· ·that goes up to Washington, and it's in dotted lines.

21· ·And I assume that means it doesn't exist yet, right?

22· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· I'm sorry.· I'm confused on

23· ·that one.

24· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Okay.· Palmetto is going to

25· ·tie into your track going up -- there it is right





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·1· ·there, that dotted line.

·2· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Right.· The dotted line --

·3· ·I'm sorry.· I'll jump on this one.· The dotted line

·4· ·is to designate that these portion -- this portion of

·5· ·the existing Plantation system -- and, actually,

·6· ·there's another line that comes up through here --

·7· ·will have an extensive amount of work done on it to

·8· ·increase its capacity to accommodate this pipeline.

·9· · · · · · Plantation already has some excess

10· ·capacity.· And there will be some construction work,

11· ·mostly in existing pump stations, to add additional

12· ·pumps or increase the size of those pumps.

13· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· And that's not considered

14· ·part of this process, or is it Palmetto down here?

15· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· It's not considered part of

16· ·this part, no, sir.· That's a separate project that

17· ·is undertaken by the Plantation pipeline.

18· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· All right.· When you had your

19· ·solicitation to the various companies and you

20· ·established a need for this, does this need replace

21· ·trucks and railcars, or is it in addition to -- is it

22· ·an additional capacity that's needed?· For instance,

23· ·if you're replacing trucks and cattle cars -- I mean,

24· ·oil cars, my estimate is that 160,000 barrels a day

25· ·is about five railcars.





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·1· · · · · · I know very little about it.· I get this

·2· ·kind of stuff off the Internet.· If we're talking

·3· ·about trucks, your economics basically says, in my

·4· ·base, 167,000, you're going be replacing about

·5· ·200 trucks.· Now, is this in your economic

·6· ·consideration?

·7· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· Let me kind of get a

·8· ·few little pieces of that.· Somebody with a

·9· ·calculator can help us out on the math, somebody that

10· ·is really fast.· But a tanker truck typically is

11· ·sized to hold up to about 200 barrels.· And 175 is a

12· ·good number for what they normally carry.· A railroad

13· ·car typically is sized to hold 700 barrels, so I

14· ·think the math is just a little bit off there.

15· · · · · · Now, it's really hard for us, a pipeline

16· ·company, to speak to what would be displaced from

17· ·rail and current truck service.· Right now, the

18· ·Jacksonville and Savannah communities are served by

19· ·vessels.

20· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· By what?

21· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· By vessels, oceangoing

22· ·barges and tankers bring in all of your petroleum

23· ·product today -- well, essentially all of them.

24· ·There are some other things that come in.· And the

25· ·ethanol that we have blended in our gasoline now is





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·1· ·mostly shipped by rail, and that's nationwide with

·2· ·two exceptions -- well, one exception right now, and

·3· ·that is the central Florida pipeline that runs from

·4· ·Tampa to Orlando actually moves ethanol from the port

·5· ·of Tampa to the Orlando community, which does take

·6· ·tankers off the road.

·7· · · · · · And the Palmetto will also be moving enough

·8· ·ethanol on it to remove those tankers.· The ethanol

·9· ·will arrive by rail at Belton but then will be

10· ·distributed along this route by pipeline.

11· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· So we're not impacting trucks

12· ·or railcars particularly, but we are impacting ships?

13· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Again, it's very hard for us

14· ·from a pipeline company perspective to say what that

15· ·impact will be.· We don't own the material that's

16· ·being barged in or shipped by pipeline.· You know, I

17· ·mean, someone could make an assumption that it's a

18· ·one-for-one offset.

19· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· But don't you receive this

20· ·information when you are asked -- soliciting

21· ·business?· I mean, don't they tell you what you're

22· ·going to be doing?

23· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Alan mentioned that we

24· ·already have customers committed in a sufficient --

25· ·they've committed to a sufficient number of barrels





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·1· ·and sufficient volumes to make the project

·2· ·economically viable.· And we are prevented by the

·3· ·FERC, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, that

·4· ·approves our terrace, they have a safeguard in

·5· ·shipper information --

·6· · · · · · LADY AUDIENCE MEMBER:· I'm sorry, but

·7· ·that's not true.· I spoke to our legal counsel, and

·8· ·they agreed on the legal setup, and that is

·9· ·absolutely not true.· They do protect you, but they

10· ·do not prevent you.

11· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Madam, I cannot tell you

12· ·what shipper has what volumes at any given point.

13· ·I'm sorry.

14· · · · · · LADY AUDIENCE MEMBER:· I'm not asking you

15· ·to, but it is not permitted to the --

16· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Well, we may be mixing

17· ·words.· And, I'm sorry, did we address -- it's very

18· ·hard for me to say exactly how much volume is being

19· ·displaced off of the water, but you can probably

20· ·assume that it's close to a one-for-one.

21· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Well, you mentioned earlier

22· ·that the purpose of this meeting is to learn more.

23· ·I'm trying to learn more.

24· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Certainly.

25· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· And make a better program.





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·1· ·I'm not sure I'll be able to make a better program

·2· ·for you.

·3· · · · · · You mention pump stations about every 90

·4· ·miles.· These, I assume, your hydraulic analysis will

·5· ·elevate those above flood plains and things like

·6· ·that.

·7· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Yes.

·8· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· All right.· I question why

·9· ·the route.· As it crosses the Savannah River, it

10· ·seems to stick very closely to the river.· Is there

11· ·any way we can get it away from the river a little

12· ·bit?

13· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· This is part of what we were

14· ·talking about.· It's part of the survey process and

15· ·finalizing the route.· We will be considering those

16· ·things.· It's following an existing Georgia

17· ·pipeline -- it's a Georgia Power line border through

18· ·this area, and there probably will be places where we

19· ·wind up adjusting the route.· But at this point, I

20· ·just can't say exactly where.

21· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· But I need to point out the

22· ·obvious that the impact of a power line is quite a

23· ·bit different than a pipeline.· I mean, a power line

24· ·is above ground and it's on.· And your lines are

25· ·underground.· So I'm not sure that sticking with





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·1· ·power lines answers your question.

·2· · · · · · But you -- well, let me go one step

·3· ·further.· In one of your displays, you showed the

·4· ·vast array of Kinder Morgan pipelines across the

·5· ·country and you did have one showing all the

·6· ·pipelines in Georgia.· Now, how much of colocation is

·7· ·going in Georgia particularly?· How much of the

·8· ·colocation is right along existing pipelines?· There

·9· ·seem to be some in the southern part of Georgia.

10· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Most of this route from

11· ·Savannah to Jacksonville is alongside an existing

12· ·Kinder Morgan pipeline called the Cypress pipeline.

13· ·It moves natural gas.

14· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Okay.· I think that's an

15· ·important piece of information, at least to me,

16· ·because it means that it's already there, adding

17· ·another one in there, hey, we know how to do it,

18· ·okay, we can do that.· I mean, your job I think

19· ·explaining is there's already one there.· Maybe you

20· ·don't want us to know that.· But I think that's

21· ·important.

22· · · · · · When you talked about landowners, you

23· ·talked about a 50-foot wide easement and, yet, I've

24· ·been reading in the paper and elsewhere it's

25· ·100 feet.· What's going on here?





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·1· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Kinder Morgan is seeking

·2· ·50 foot.· I cannot -- I can't assume to speak what

·3· ·other numbers people may have seen.· But a 50-foot

·4· ·permanent easement is what we're seeking and then

·5· ·with additional construction workspace that's just

·6· ·temporary for the duration of the construction would

·7· ·be up to an additional 75 feet, for a total of 125,

·8· ·but only the 50 is permanent easement.

·9· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· If you collocate against the

10· ·Cypress line, does that mean an additional 50 feet or

11· ·is the right-of-way already established and you go

12· ·into the existing right-of-way?

13· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· We're anticipating an

14· ·additional 50 feet.

15· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Okay.· The 90-day process has

16· ·begun.· So mid-May, the DOT will make their decision;

17· ·is that correct?

18· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· What does our math work out

19· ·to?

20· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Sir, the DOT has the ability

21· ·to review all comments submitted and so forth and

22· ·make a determination within the 90-day period.· The

23· ·regulations require that they wait until the end of

24· ·the 90 days.· But it will be within a reasonable time

25· ·after the conclusion of hearings and comment periods.





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·1· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· And that gives you about a

·2· ·year before you start actual work, right?

·3· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· We would be looking at

·4· ·starting construction in spring of 2016.

·5· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Right.· The destination

·6· ·points that I've been reading about, seems to me,

·7· ·your major tank farm is going to be in Richmond Hill;

·8· ·is that correct?

·9· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Yes, a little south of

10· ·Richmond Hill.

11· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Okay.· And that's going to

12· ·serve the Savannah area?

13· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Yes.

14· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· How do you cross rivers?

15· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· That's a good question.· And

16· ·the approach we normally use now is called horizontal

17· ·directional drilling, and I don't know if anybody is

18· ·familiar with that.

19· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Tracking uses that.

20· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Pardon?

21· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Tracking uses that.

22· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Not exactly.

23· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· I got you.

24· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· This is a process where a

25· ·drill rig is set up at an angle, and the pipe is





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·1· ·actually bored deeply underneath the river in a

·2· ·curved pattern so we can offset from the river and

·3· ·not disturb riverbanks or the riverbed itself.

·4· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· What happens if you have a

·5· ·pipe leak?· What do you do?

·6· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· If we have a pipe leak?· We

·7· ·have people that respond to that.· They clean it up

·8· ·and remediate it.

·9· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Well, I assume you shut it

10· ·down, too?

11· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Yes.· That is the first

12· ·step.

13· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Right.· The other thing is

14· ·you mentioned that one of the values of this to us is

15· ·that during hurricanes, we can expect some delivery

16· ·in fuel.· I'm wondering why you wouldn't shut it down

17· ·during a hurricane, just be sensible about it?· Are

18· ·you going to keep it open during hurricanes?

19· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· I'm not sure I understand

20· ·your question, sir.

21· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Well, in some of your

22· ·literature off your web page and so on, you say that

23· ·one of the values to us is that during hurricanes and

24· ·inclement weather, we can still receive fuel.· And

25· ·during a hurricane, I just would say if I were you, I





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·1· ·would shut it down until the thing's over.

·2· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· I believe where that

·3· ·statement is aimed at is we know that most of the

·4· ·petroleum products consumed all up and down the

·5· ·eastern seaboard are produced in a few areas, the

·6· ·Houston Bay town area and the areas along Baton Rouge

·7· ·and Pascagoula, Mississippi.· So it's all waterborne

·8· ·vessels that leave those areas, go around Florida and

·9· ·come up to serve the east coast.

10· · · · · · And that's where that comment comes from,

11· ·that statement.· It's about the disruption that

12· ·happens when we have either an Atlantic hurricane or

13· ·a gulf hurricane.· And so pipelines don't shut down

14· ·for hurricanes, normally.· We did with -- what was

15· ·the big one that came into New Orleans?

16· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Katrina.

17· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· That took out everybody's

18· ·electricity.· And without electricity, you can't run

19· ·pipes.

20· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· You make mention of in one

21· ·year, we're going to have 1,200 additional jobs. I

22· ·really can't believe that the local workforce is

23· ·going to get involved in this.· Aren't you bringing

24· ·in people?

25· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· There will be a number of





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·1· ·local jobs and service providers that get engaged in

·2· ·a pipeline-type project.· There are certain

·3· ·specialized skills that probably are not here

·4· ·locally, like cross-country pipeline construction

·5· ·contractors.· And those folks typically travel all

·6· ·over the U.S. building pipelines and bring certain

·7· ·core people with them, you know, the superintendent

·8· ·and the foremen and some of the skill trades.· But

·9· ·they also need a lot of local laborers to help with

10· ·the construction process.

11· · · · · · There's service companies that will be

12· ·providing services and materials to these

13· ·contractors.· There -- a lot of these people will

14· ·need hotel space.· They'll be spending money in the

15· ·local economy as the construction moves along.

16· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· You make a mention of the

17· ·taxes that you folks will be paying, and you said

18· ·today that the taxes would be property taxes for the

19· ·pipeline.· That's not my understanding.· My

20· ·understanding is that through eminent domain, you

21· ·take a swipe out of my property and that I pay the

22· ·taxes on all of that.

23· · · · · · MR. FORE:· The taxes that we're paying are

24· ·based upon the value of the pipe, valuation of the

25· ·pipe, ad valorem on the pipe.· So what the pipe is





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·1· ·valued at, assessed at, that's what our taxes will be

·2· ·paid on, the asset itself, not the property.

·3· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Property taxes are based on

·4· ·market value, assessed on market value.· And I can't

·5· ·believe that having a right-of-way through my

·6· ·property is going to increase the value of my

·7· ·property.· So I assume that when you buy this

·8· ·right-of-way, you're compensating for the loss of

·9· ·value on my property; is that correct?

10· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· That usually figures into

11· ·the negotiation between the right-of-way agents and

12· ·the property owner.· Yes.

13· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· Okay, in Savannah,

14· ·apparently, you said that about $301,000 of taxes

15· ·would be revenue, would be given to them.· And I

16· ·assume that's because of the value of your pipe?

17· · · · · · MR. FORE:· Right.

18· · · · · · MR. MILMINE:· And the value of the pumping

19· ·station and so on.· Okay.· I don't want to take any

20· ·more time, thank you.

21· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Thank you.· Does anyone else

22· ·have comments?

23· · · · · · MR. REGISTER:· Yes, sir.· My name is Sean

24· ·Register, .· My

25· ·comments will be a little different tonight.· I tried


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·1· ·to talk last night, and the crowd there was much

·2· ·larger, and I never got to speak.

·3· · · · · · I know several of you in this room.· I'm in

·4· ·the logistics business, been all my life for

·5· ·35 years.· I live in .· And I've carried

·6· ·stuff in ships, trucks, railroad cars, charted

·7· ·airplanes.· But the most safest way to transport a

·8· ·product is in a pipeline.· It seems to be less prone

·9· ·to any accidents.· If you look at what's going on

10· ·recently, you see railcars, derailments, you hear of

11· ·truck accidents, you hear -- very rarely if you ever

12· ·hear of an accident on a pipeline.

13· · · · · · I do not work for Kinder Morgan.· Let me

14· ·first say that.· I had never met these gentlemen

15· ·until last night.· And, basically, I'm a little

16· ·different from being from this area.· But has anybody

17· ·in this room ever done business with Kinder Morgan?

18· ·I'm the only guy that's going raise my hand.· I've

19· ·done business with Kinder Morgan for 12 years, not on

20· ·the pipeline side, but on their marine terminals.

21· · · · · · And all I will say is being a resident from

22· ·the area, they do the first-class job when it comes

23· ·to the environment and being very up on everything,

24· ·the latest technology.· When I put ships into their

25· ·terminal in Fernandina, they got on to me because


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·1· ·certain things maybe the Coast Guard missed, but they

·2· ·brought it up to my attention.· And I corrected

·3· ·those.

·4· · · · · · So we're dealing with a first-class company

·5· ·here.· I've never dealt with the pipeline side of it.

·6· ·So I'll be upfront with that, but I have dealt with

·7· ·them as a corporation.· And they are a very stand-up,

·8· ·first-class company.· So for what it's worth, I think

·9· ·if there were other ones, there might be; but knowing

10· ·their reputation, they do what they say they're going

11· ·to do, so.

12· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Thank you.· All right.· Any

13· ·further public comments?· Yes.· We'll go with the

14· ·lady in the back and the gentleman afterwards.

15· · · · · · MS. HILBURN:· Jen Hilburn, Altamaha River

16· ·Keeper.· I live in and work in the

17· ·Altamaha Watershed, so that's Atlanta and Athens all

18· ·the way down here.· I just have a couple of

19· ·logistical questions.· So can you confirm for me,

20· ·please, when the written comments are due and to whom

21· ·they're due to?

22· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· The written comments can be

23· ·submitted during the 90-day period.· Again, the

24· ·regulations do not specify when the DOT has to rule

25· ·before the end of the 90-day period.· It has to rule


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·1· ·by the end of the 90-day period, but it can rule any

·2· ·time during that 90-day period.· So written comments

·3· ·are accepted during that time.

·4· · · · · · And, you know, we would encourage

·5· ·submission of those written comments promptly.· So I

·6· ·can't speak to you exactly when the Georgia DOT would

·7· ·decide to rule or feel like it received enough

·8· ·written comments to make a ruling, but that's the way

·9· ·that the statute is set up.

10· · · · · · MS. HILBURN:· Sir, would you be able to

11· ·comment on that, please?

12· · · · · · MR. BOLDEN:· What he stated is exactly

13· ·right.· And I would like to clarify that one of the

14· ·gentlemen said something about that they have to

15· ·trust them that what they're giving us is correct.

16· ·She has my card and anything that she sends to them,

17· ·she's sending directly to me; and, therefore, I'm

18· ·getting the raw data just as they get it.· So there

19· ·should be no issue about -- or question if they're

20· ·sending us the correct stuff.

21· · · · · · MS. HILBURN:· Could you, then, tell me when

22· ·the 90-day period actually started?

23· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· The 90-day period began, I

24· ·believe --

25· · · · · · MR. BOLDEN:· February the 13th.





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·1· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· February the 13th.

·2· · · · · · MS. HILBURN:· February the 13th.· All

·3· ·right.· So that's what we we're working with.· Thank

·4· ·you very much.· And do we know exactly where the

·5· ·pipeline will be crossing water bodies at this point?

·6· ·I see that you have a little bit more detailed maps,

·7· ·and I thank you for that.· Do we have exact crossing

·8· ·locations at this point?

·9· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· We have crossing locations

10· ·preliminarily identified on this route.· Again, this

11· ·is our preliminary route.· There may be some

12· ·adjustments.· Okay?

13· · · · · · MS. HILBURN:· Okay.

14· · · · · · MS. WILLIAMS:· I would be happy to go

15· ·through those with you, if you wish.

16· · · · · · MS. HILBURN:· I absolutely do, and I thank

17· ·you for that.· Can you tell me how many storage

18· ·tanks, pump stations and terminals there will be from

19· ·Savannah to Jacksonville at this time?

20· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· There will be one breakout

21· ·terminal, the truck terminal in the Richmond Hill

22· ·area, and anticipate a pump station somewhere in the

23· ·Savannah area and another one about midway between

24· ·Savannah and Jacksonville.

25· · · · · · MS. HILBURN:· You don't have exact





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·1· ·locations at this time?

·2· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· As I mentioned, we are still

·3· ·refining the pipeline hydraulics.· That's what drives

·4· ·location.

·5· · · · · · MS. HILBURN:· And my final questions are

·6· ·could you tell me where and when your last spill

·7· ·occurred?

·8· · · · · · MR. FORE:· No, not off the top of my head,

·9· ·no.

10· · · · · · MS. HILBURN:· Okay.· Thank you.

11· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Thank you.· And the gentleman

12· ·in the back.

13· · · · · · MR. ZACK:· I'm Marcus Zack.· I live here in

14· ·Midway, Georgia, or over there in Midway, Georgia, I

15· ·guess.· We're in Hinesville right now.

16· · · · · · My question is similar to that last one. I

17· ·was going to ask what your history is with spills and

18· ·that sort of thing.· It sounds like you guys have

19· ·been with the company a long time.· Maybe it's been a

20· ·while.· I'd also like to know the safety mechanisms

21· ·that are on the pipes.· Are there leak detection

22· ·controls, actuated valves, that sort of thing?

23· ·What's your response time to a leak?

24· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.

25· · · · · · MR. ZACK:· Obviously, we're proud of our





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·1· ·environmental resources here and we want to take care

·2· ·of them.· I support the project.· I support the

·3· ·pipeline, but I think it would be good for us know

·4· ·what you guys have in place to prevent spills and

·5· ·that sort of thing.

·6· · · · · · MR. FORE:· Before you go into the specifics

·7· ·of that, let me make two points about the incidents

·8· ·on pipelines.· One is we published on our website our

·9· ·overall safety record.· So anyone who is -- we are

10· ·the only few energy companies that does that,

11· ·actually publishes our own safety record on our

12· ·website.· You can also go to the PHMSA website,

13· ·Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety

14· ·Administration, and they also have public documents

15· ·on reportable incidents related to pipelines.

16· · · · · · So if you want to know exactly what's

17· ·happening, you can go to the government, federal

18· ·website that has oversight of pipeline safety and

19· ·also our own website has specific information.

20· · · · · · MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER:· I have a question --

21· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Wait a minute.· I'm sorry.

22· ·May we answer this one first?

23· · · · · · MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER:· Yeah.· Okay.· Go

24· ·ahead.

25· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Regarding safety measures for





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·1· ·pipelines, you mentioned the pipeline leak detection.

·2· ·And that is a tool that we use.· I mentioned that the

·3· ·pipeline will be controlled out of a control center

·4· ·in Alpharetta, Georgia.· And we have various types of

·5· ·pressure and flow rates sensors along the pipeline.

·6· · · · · · And the data from those sensors goes into

·7· ·what's called computational pipeline model, a

·8· ·computer model, and it alarms if any kind of leak is

·9· ·detected, or it alarms if a leak is detected.· So

10· ·that's one tool.· The other thing that Kinder Morgan

11· ·has undertaken to do is on the last few projects that

12· ·we've built, we go ahead and install remote control

13· ·operators on all of our pipeline block valves rather

14· ·than manual controllers so that if there is a leak

15· ·detected, the guys in the control center can close

16· ·valves down at the time of detection rather than

17· ·having to wait until someone gets in a maintenance

18· ·vehicle and drives out to that site.

19· · · · · · And those are probably a couple of the key

20· ·things.· As far as response, all of our employees,

21· ·all of our field employees are trained for the

22· ·gadgets, regulations, First Response and all of that.

23· ·Most all of them have been through 25- and 40-hour

24· ·training and the recurrent eight-hour annual

25· ·training.





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·1· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· Now.

·2· · · · · · MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER:· I noticed that your

·3· ·pipeline affects the Ogeechee and the Altamaha.· Does

·4· ·it go under the river or --

·5· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Under the river is what

·6· ·we've planned, yes, sir.

·7· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Yes, sir.

·8· · · · · · MR. LOWDHAM:· I'm Phil Lowdham.· I'm the

·9· ·commissioner over the Liberty Consolidated Planning

10· ·Commission.· And your preliminary maps stand out to

11· ·have some kind of conflict with some of our roadway

12· ·infrastructure that we're planning on in the future.

13· ·I would like to discuss with y'all about, as you

14· ·tighten this program up, to at least -- Jeff, our

15· ·executive director is here -- get with him and make

16· ·sure that what we're planning to do 20 and 30 years

17· ·out from now is not conflicting with what you want to

18· ·do in 18 months.

19· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· I think that's a wonderful

20· ·idea.

21· · · · · · MR. LOWDHAM:· Thank you.

22· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· We welcome following up with

23· ·you both.· And that goes for other locations along

24· ·the route.

25· · · · · · MR. RICHARDSON:· I do have a follow up to





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·1· ·Phil's question.· I am Jeff Richardson, the director

·2· ·of the Liberty Consolidated Planning Commission.· And

·3· ·I have two questions.· One, are you going to have a

·4· ·rail siding at your new truck terminal in Richmond

·5· ·Hill?

·6· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· No, we do not anticipate.

·7· · · · · · MR. RICHARDSON:· And the second question

·8· ·is, I see your line down in Long County and McIntosh

·9· ·County comes very close to the Navy's town and

10· ·bombing range.· Has that been factored into your

11· ·location?

12· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Oh, yes.· They're aware that

13· ·the Navy is working on expanding that range.· And

14· ·right now, that range goes right up to the edge of

15· ·the Cypress pipeline, which is right next to the

16· ·power line, but we -- the Navy's been good to work

17· ·with so far because we've actually obtained their

18· ·preliminary plans for expansion, and we also see

19· ·where the target areas -- where they're talking

20· ·about, yes.

21· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Are there any further

22· ·comments?· Yes, sir.· Come forward or you can just

23· ·stand up.· That's great.

24· · · · · · MR. FRAZIER:· I'm Odum Frazier, and I'm

25· ·originally from Hinesville.· I understand that there





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·1· ·are right-of-way agents that will -- I suppose

·2· ·they'll be in touch with the property owners to

·3· ·negotiate the -- and I use this term lightly -- the

·4· ·sale of the property.· Is it the sale of the property

·5· ·or sale of the easement or the lease of an easement,

·6· ·or what is the term here?

·7· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· It is the purchase of

·8· ·an easement is how we would term that.

·9· · · · · · MR. FRAZIER:· Okay.· And am I right, the

10· ·right-of-way agents will be in touch?

11· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Yes, the right-of-way agents

12· ·will be in touch.· That's correct.

13· · · · · · MR. FRAZIER:· Thank you.

14· · · · · · MR. MUTTER:· Yes, sir.· That is all the

15· ·comments for tonight -- oh, yes, sir.

16· · · · · · MR. FRAZIER:· Excuse me.· I just have one

17· ·or two.· My name is Blake Frazier.· I'm a part

18· ·landowners with my siblings, and y'all don't have a

19· ·way y'all could blow up Liberty County and let us

20· ·look at Liberty County where y'all are going to go

21· ·like a Google map or a --

22· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Yeah, we do.

23· · · · · · MR. FRAZIER:· -- PIS Libertycounty.org or

24· ·something to show us which side of the power line

25· ·y'all are -- if y'all are going adjacent to, Cypress





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·1· ·Gas or some existing or if you're going to go to the

·2· ·other side of the power line.· I'm concerned about

·3· ·which side of the power line you're going on, and I'm

·4· ·also -- when we talk about these figures and we talk

·5· ·about the width of the right-of-way, we talk about

·6· ·50 feet.· And then there was maybe another 50 or

·7· ·another 75 feet for construction use.· So, in other

·8· ·words, we're talking about a 125 foot where no trees

·9· ·can be to run equipment?

10· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· No, sir.· They would

11· ·probably have to remove trees or things that would be

12· ·in the way for that construction period.· But as soon

13· ·a construction is over, that additional temporary

14· ·workspace goes back to the property owners.

15· · · · · · MR. FRAZIER:· But if you need 125-foot

16· ·right-of-way and there's timber in the right-of-way,

17· ·the landowner, when you give your estimate or eminent

18· ·domain, we have the right to get the timber off the

19· ·existing right-of-way before you guys come through?

20· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Oh, yes, sir.· We're not in

21· ·the timber business.

22· · · · · · MR. FRAZIER:· But it is going to be

23· ·125 foot.· When we meet your fellows on the ground to

24· ·show us --

25· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· They're going to ask for a





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·1· ·100 -- they're going to ask for a 50-foot permanent

·2· ·easement and up to 75-foot or 75-foot temporary work

·3· ·space.· That equals 125.· That's the starting point,

·4· ·and we u

transcript of statements - hinesville

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