transcript – mind, buddha & spirit with dan harris -...

© The Bulletproof Executive 2013

Transcript – Mind, Buddha & Spirit with Dan Harris -

#343

Bulletproof Radio Dan Harris #343

2

Warning and Disclaimer

The statements in this report have not been evaluated by the FDA (U.S. Food & Drug Administration). Information provided here and products sold on bulletproofexec.com and/or upgradedself.com and/or betterbabybook.com are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The information provided by these sites and/or by this report is not a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with your physician, and should not be construed as medical advice of any sort. It is a list of resources for further self-research and work with your physician. We certify that at least one statement on the above-mentioned web sites and/or in this report is wrong. By using any of this information, or reading it, you are accepting responsibility for your own health and health decisions and expressly release The Bulletproof Executive and its employees, partners, and vendors from from any and all liability whatsoever, including that arising from negligence. Do not run with scissors. Hot drinks may be hot and burn you.

If you do not agree to the above conditions, please do not read further and delete this document.


3

DaveAsprey: Aquickquestionforallyouhardworkingentrepreneursputtinginthehourswhilesummerbeckons.Hasdealingwithyourday-to-daypaperworkeverbroughtaboutfeelingsthatresembleanythingclosetojoy,satisfaction,orease?Ididn'tthinkso.IfyouarereadyforthattochangemyfriendsatFreshBooksareinvitingyoutotrytheridiculouslyeasycloudaccountingsoftwarethat'satotaljoytouse.Yes.Ijustusedthewordseasy,joy,andaccountinginthesamesentence.

UsingFreshBooksittakesliterallyabout30secondstocreateandsendapolished,professionallookinginvoice.YoucanlinkyourFreshBooksaccounttoyourcreditanddebitcard,sonexttimeyouexpensethatbusinesslunchortankofgas,itwillshowupautomaticallyinyourFreshBooksaccount.With2clicksFreshBookscansetyouuptoreceivepaymentsonlinewhichcanseriouslyimprovehowquicklyyougetpaid.ToseeallthewaysFreshBookscanbringthejoybychangingthewayyoufeelaboutyourpaperwork,they'reofferingallBulletproofRadiolistenersanunrestricted30dayfreetrial.ToclaimitjustgotoFreshBooks.com/BulletproofandenterBulletproofRadiointhe,'Howdidyouhearaboutus?'Section.That'sFreshBooks.com/BulletproofandenterBulletproofRadio.

FemaleVoiceove: BulletproofRadio.Astateofhighperformance.

DaveAsprey: You'relisteningtoBulletproofRadiowithDaveAsprey.Today'scoolfactofthedayisthatmeditationhasamazingpsychologicalbenefits.Thingslikestressreductionandbrainwavecoherence.Butyouprobablyknewthat.Butwhatyouprobablydidn'tknowisthatstudiesalsoshowthatoneofthephysiologicalbenefitsismeditationcanimproveyoursexlifebecauseitincreasesyourlibido,anditdoesitbyboostingthesexhormonecalledDHEA,whichisaprecursortothingsliketestosteronethatincreaselibido.Alsothatmeansyou'llgetbettersexifyousitthereandmeditate.Youwouldn'texpectthis,butit'strue.Iamlivingevidenceofthis.AtleastIliketothinkIam.Beforewegetintotheshowtoday...

MaleVoiceover: Lookingforacareerintech?Maybebusiness,data,designermarketing?Tryingtogetthatpromotionorraise?Toexcelinyourcareer,youneed21stcenturytrainingandskills.GeneralAssemblyisthelargestandmostrespectedschoolworldwideforpeopleseekingtogrowtheirtalentsandmasterthemarketplace.Whetherit'slearningremotelyonlineorinpersonatoneoftheirbeautifulcampuses,youcanjointhe350,000peoplewhohavealreadygottenthetrainingneededtopropelcareersintechandbusiness.Morethan2,500companiesworldwidehireGA'sgraduatewith99%ofgraduateswhoparticipateinGA'scareerservices,lendinganewroleintheirfieldwithin6monthsofstartingtheirjobsearch.Takecontrolofyourtalentandcareernow.FindoutmoreatGA.co/bullet.That'sGA.co/bullet.Enterthepromocode,'Bullet'tosaveonyourfirstclass,workshop,orevent.That'sGA.co/bullet.Codeword,bullet.

DaveAsprey: IamwearingoneofthemanyBulletprooft-shirtstoday.Checkoutthet-shirtshoponBulletproof.com.Whetherit'scoffeeorbutterthatmakesyouhappy,youcantelltheworld


4

whatitis.TheshirtI'mwearingisactuallyapictureofthecaffeinemoleculeanditsays,"Caffeine:Mydrugofchoice".Thisisareplica,butbetterdesigned,thantheveryfirstt-shirteversoldovertheinternet.Infact,itwastheveryfirstanythingsoldovertheinternetbecausewaybackintheearly90s,thefirste-commerceontheplanetwasapparentlyoutofmydormroomsellingat-shirtthatsaidexactlythesewords."IdesigneditinCorelDraw.Ifyourememberthat,you'reatleast40.

Allright.Today'sguestisDanHarris.DanisanEmmyawardwinningco-anchorofNightLineandtheweekendeditionofGoodMorningAmerica.Heisregularlyon20/20,WorldNewsTonightwithDavidMirror,GoodMorningAmericaABCDigitalNewsandRadio,prettymuchallovertheplaceifyouwatchTV.Whichmostofusdo.He'salsohadanamazingstorywherehegoesandhecoverssomeofthemostincrediblethings.ThingslikenaturaldisastersinHaiti,NewOrleans;combatinAfghanistan,Israel,Gaza,theWestBank.He'sbeentoIraq6times,andhe'sontheshowbecausehejustwroteTheNewYorkTimesbestsellingbook,'TenPercentHappier:HowITamedtheVoiceinMyHead,ReducedStressWithoutLosingmyEdge,andFoundSelfHelpThatActuallyWorks'.He'sevengotanappdesignedtoteachmeditationtoskepticswhichDan,makesmelaughlikecrazy.Welcometotheshow.

DanHarris: Thanksforhavingme.Idon'tknowifyouremember,butIdidastoryaboutyou.

DaveAsprey: Thatistrue.Youdid.

DanHarris: Ididastoryaboutyou,andIthinkitwasprovigil.

DaveAsprey: Thatwasactuallyoneofthevery,veryfirstnationalnewsthingsaboutModafinilthatI'veeverseen.InfactIremembersittinginmybackyardwithyou.Weweremeditatingwhiletheywerefilming,andmydogcameupandsatonyourfeetifmemoryserves.

DanHarris: Irememberallofthatexceptforthedog,butIlikethedogpart.

DaveAsprey: Itwas,I'mprettysurehedid.Helikestocomeandsitonyourfeetwhileyoumeditate.It'sastrangething,butit'saDachshundthing.It'skindoffunny.Thatwasabout4or5yearsagoI'dsay.You'vetamedthevoiceinyourheadsincethen.Ithinkyouwerealreadyworkingonitbackthen.Atleastyouseemedlikeyouknewhowtomeditate.Whydidyoudecidetowritethebook?

DanHarris: There'sthelongstory,themediumstory,theshortstory.I'lltrytopackitintothemedium.IthinktheincitingeventformereallywasthatIhadapanicattackonnationaltelevisionbackin2004onGoodMorningAmerica.Iwasreadingthenewsheadlines.Iwastheguywhocomesonatthetopofthehourandreadstheheadlines.Ijust,myheartstartedracing,mylungsseizedup,mymouthdriedup,mypalmsweresweating.Icouldn'tdeal,andIcouldn'tbreathe.Ihadtoquitinthemiddleofmylittlenewscastandtossitbacktothemainanchorsoftheshow,DianeSawyerandCharlieGibson.Thatwasembarrassing,butevenmoreembarrassingwasthebackstory.


5

Ihad,asyoumentioned,IspentalotoftimeinIraqandotherwarzonesasanambitiousyoungreporter.After9/11IwasinAfghanistan,andIsrael,andTheWestBank,andGaza.Igotdepressedafterdoingthat,anddidaverystupidthingwhichisIstartedtoselfmedicatewithrecreationaldrugslikecocaineandecstasy.AfterIhadthepanicattackIwenttoadoctorwhowastryingtogettothebottomoftheproblemandheaskedmewhetherIdiddrugs,andIsaid,"Yeah."Hepointedoutthatthatwaswhatcausedthepanicattack.Itartificiallyraisedthelevelofadrenalineinmybrainandprimedmetofreakout.Thatkindofsetmeoffonthislongjourneyoftryingtobelessofanidiot.ThisiswhereI'mgoingtoshorten,truncatethingsverydramatically.

ItultimatelyledmetomeditationwhichIalwaysthoughtwasvery,wastotallyridiculous.Meantonlyforhippies,andfreaks,andpeoplewholiveinYurtsandwearlittlefingersymbols,andarereallyintoCatStevens,andcrystals,andthingslikethat.Iwasn'tentirelywrongaboutthat,butIwaswrongenoughasIlearned.Istarteddiscoveringthesciencearoundmeditation.Thatreallychangedmymind.

WhyIdecidedtowritethebookwasthatIrealizedthattherewasatthattime,thiswasaround2008,2009,therewasalotofreallyinterestingscience,andtherewerealotofreallyinterestingpeoplewhowerestartingtogetintomeditation,butthereweren'talotofbooksthatweredesignedforskeptics.Alotofthebookshadabackgroundofpanflutemusic,oritfeltliketheydid.Oritfeltlikeyouwerebeingaddressedasgrasshopper.Iwantedtowriteabookthathadirony,andIsharealotofreallyembarrassingthingsaboutmyself.Iswearalot,andIthoughtthatwouldbemaybe,Ihadanentrepreneurialitch,sothat'swhyIdidit.

DaveAsprey: It'sfunnybecauseIcomefromSiliconValley.MygrandmothermetmygrandfatheronTheManhattanProjectandshestillsubscribestothisday,she's94,toTheSkepticalEnquirer,whichisliketheoriginaltrollmagazinelikefromthe1960s.IfImentionmeditationtoher,she'skindoflike,"Meh.Whywouldyoudosuchathing?"Butthereissomesciencebehinditsokudostofiguringouthowtotalktoagroupofpeoplewhocanprobablybenefitfromit.

Ilookatthis,there'sagroupofpeoplewhothinktheglassishalffull,andthey'veprobablygotpanflutesgoing.There'sagroupofpeoplewhothinkit'shalfempty,andthey'retheangryskeptics.Thenthere'swellthere'saglassandit'sgotstuffinit.Youcouldthinkaboutit.Therejustisn'tabigperspectiveonit.It'sokay.Whatever.Itseemslikewalkingthatmiddleisthemostfunctionalplacetobe.Wouldyouagreewiththatgivenyourpath?Orareyouoneofthosethat'syoushouldbeinonedirectionversustheother?

DanHarris: No,IthinkIagreewiththat.Iwasreallytryingtofindawaytospeaktoeverybody,includingthepeople.Theglasshalfemptypeople.Oryourgrandmother.Orfrankly,mymom.Mymomisascientist,whowhenIwaslike8,satmedownandexplainedthatnotonlyistherenoSantaClaus,butthereisalsonoGod.ThisisthetypeofhousethatIgrewupin.Itoo,amadietinthewallskeptic,butthere'sadifferencebetweenbeingskepticalandbeingcynical.Blindedbycynicism.Ithinkthat'swhereIwas.Especiallyasitpertainedtomeditation.


6

Onceyouseethescience,letmejustsayafewwordsaboutit,it'sreallyinitsearlystages,

andindangerattimesofbeinghyped.ButwhatIthinkwecansaywithrealcertaintyisthattheexplosionofscientificresearchintomeditationstronglysuggestsalonglistoftantalizinghealthbenefits,likeloweringyourbloodpressure,boostingyourimmunesystem.Literallyrewiringkeypartsofyourbrainthathavetodowithfocus,andstress,andemotionalactivity,andcompassion>Idon'tcarehowskepticalyouare,onceyouhearthis,itstartsto,youstarttogetintrigued.Ithinkthere'saprettygoodanalogytobemadetophysicalexercise.Evenifyou'reaskeptic,Ithinkmostpeopleembracephysicalexercise,knowthatphysicalexerciseisgoodforyou,whetheryoudoitornot.That'swhereIthinkwe'reheadingwithmeditation.

DaveAsprey: Greatanalogy.Itseemslikethere'sbeenashift.I'vebeeninterestedinmeditationfortheperformancebenefitsforaverylongtime.IputitonmyLinkedInprofile,atleast15yearsago.Iputmeditationandyogaattheendoftheinterests.InSiliconValleythatwaskindoflikepeoplewouldlookatyouweirdiftheynoticedit.Itwaslikemaybe1in10werelike,"Yeah.Iactuallydosomethinglikethattoo,"butmostpeople,itwassortoflikeanadmissionofweakness.Hasthatchanged?Doyouthinkpublicperceptionhasshifted?

DanHarris: Yeah.Ithinkitisshifting,butIcanseehowitwouldbeseenasanadmissionofweakness.Justthewaysayingyougotoatherapistwouldbeseenasanadmissionofweakness.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

DanHarris: Orprobablywas15yearsago.Lesssonow.Butwe'reinanerawhereKobeBryant,MichaelJordan,TheNewYorkKnicks,NovakDjokovic,50Cent,theleadsingerofWeezer,LinaDunham,Google,Twitter,Etna,GeorgeStephanopoulos,RobinRoberts,KatiePerry,allofthesefoundersofTwitter,you,allofthesepeoplethatareaspirationalfigureswhoare,andaretoughpeople,theUSMarines,andtheUSArmy,areallmeditating,soIthinkit'shardtoseeitasasignofweaknesswhenyoulookatthecrewofpeoplewhoarenowdoingthis.Ithinkperceptionsareshifting.Ithinkthat'sreallygreatbecauseIthinkthisisthenextbigpublichealthrevolution.

I'mexcitedaboutitnotonlybecauseIthinkitwillimprovehealthoverall,butalsounlikepasthealthrevolutionslikeoralhygiene,whichreallyhappenedafterWorldWar2asfarasIunderstand,youknowwhenthetroopsweretoldthattheyneedtobrushtheirteeth,oralhygieneorphysicalexercisewhichreallystartedtohappeninthelastcenturytoo,thosehadhealthbenefits,buttheydidn'treallyresultinwidespreadbehavioralchange.Ithinkmeditation,Ithinkifthecurrentpercentageofthepopulationthatcurrentlyengagesinphysicalexercisestartstoengageinmentalexercise,thinkabouttheimpactonbullying,oneducation,onparenting,onmarriage,onpolitics,onjournalism,onroadrage.Alloftheseaspectsofourlife.Ithinkthat'sveryexciting.

DaveAsprey: It'soneofthosethingswherepeoplecouldbenicertoeachother,10%nicercomesfrombeing10%happier.Right?It'soneofthereasonsItalkaboutitreallyopenlyisthatIwasalsoveryskeptical.Also,Iwas,Ithinkthetechnicalwordis,Iwasprettymuchanassholea


7

lotofthetime.Itwasn'tonpurposethough,itwasjustlikealackofunderstanding,andprobablyalackoftrainingofthebrain.Ispentextensiveamountsoftimeandmoney,10weekswithelectrodesonmyheadtoletmemeditatebetterwithfeedback,andthingslikethat.That'soneofthethingsbehindBulletproofislikelook.Ifyou'renothungryallthetime.Ifyoudon'thavebloodsugarcrashes.Ifyourbrainisalittlebitbetterorganizedyou'relesslikelytoflipofftheguyinfrontofyouintraffic.Thattripleswhenyoudothingslikethat.

DanHarris: Thatisexactlyright.EspeciallyforbeginningmeditatorandIwouldcountmyselfsortofinthebeginning.Thebenefitisthatyouarelessyankedaroundbyyouremotions.Mostguysdon'tliketalkingaboutemotions,andIdon'teither,butyouhavethem.OrasmyfriendChrisCuomo,whoisanewsanchoronCNNsaysthatheshiftsgearsbetweenhis2primaryemotionswhicharerageandselfpity.Whenyouareunawareoftheseemotions,whenyouareunawareofthenonstopconversationyouarehavingwithyourselfityanksyouaround,andthatiswhyyoudostupidshit,likeloseyourtemperwhenit'sstrategicallyunwiseinaprofessionalcontext,orsaythethingthatruinsthenext48hoursofyourmarriage,oreatthe18thcookie,orwhateveritis.

Allthestuffthatyoudon'twanttobedoingisbecauseyouareunawareofthevoiceinyourheadandarethereforeyankedaroundbyit.Meditationisjustthebuildingofaninternaltelescopethatallowsyoutoseewhattheactivityofyourmindsothatitdoesn'tyankyouaround.Nowtherearealotofotherthingsthatmeditationcando,butIthinkforbeginnersthat'stherightwaytothinkaboutit.It'snotcomplicated.It'snotmystical.Itdoesnotinvolvebelievinginanything,joiningagroup,wearingspecialoutfits,sittinginafunnyposition.It'sactuallyverysimple.Mysortofraisond'etre,myfunctionontheplanetnowistosaythisasclearlyaspossible,asloudlyaspossible,inasmanyplacesaspossible,sothatpeoplestarttoseethisasanoptionthatisviableforthem.

DaveAsprey: Ifyoucouldhavetoldme20yearsagothatIcouldturnoffthevoiceinmyhead,Iwouldhavegivenanythingtodoitbecauseitwaskindofameansonofabitch,right.Ihavedonethat.LikeIdon'tactuallyhaveavoiceinmyheadanymore.Afteralotofmeditation,andbreathing,andalsosomeofthecomputerdrivenstuffthatIdo.Peoplehaveahardtimebelievingit,butit'spossible.Thereisn'tsomething,liketheharshcritic,allthatstuffthatwasreallyacorepartoftheanxietythatIusedtohave.Itjustgoesaway.ButIthinkthevastmajorityofpeople,whenyousaythat,eventhatthevoiceintheirheadcangoaway,theyalsoexperiencesomefearfromthat.Didyougothroughthatasyour,okayIwanttogetinchargeofthisvoiceinmyhead,butifI'minchargethenI'mresponsible.Didyouhavelikeareflexive,whatifit'snotsafekindofmoment?

DanHarris: WellIhaveabunchofthingstosayaboutthat.Ithinkit'stotallyintriguingthatyoufeellikethevoiceinyourheadhasgoneaway.Thatisdefinitelynotthecaseforme.Iretainthecapacitytobeaschmuck,sothat'swhyIlikethewhole10%thingbecauseitismywayofcounterprogrammingagainsttherecklessoverpromisingthatyouseeintheselfhelpindustrygenerally.BywhichI'mnotreferringtoyou,I'mjustreferringtothesortof,thepowerofpositivethinkingpeople.


8

DaveAsprey: Youhaven'tlevitatedyeteither?

DanHarris: No.Ihavenot.ButIdidhaveconcernsaboutmeditationbecauseIthoughtitwouldmakemelosemyedge.IthoughtthatthisinternalsonofabitchwasthereasonforanysuccessIhadenjoyedinmylife.Ithinkalotofpeoplehavethesefeelings,andthisisoneofthemainthingsIamworkingonoverthecourseofthebook.ThethingIamkindofstrugglingwith,andwhatI'vecometoisthatit'sokaytohavestress.It'sokaytoworry.It'sokaytocriticizeyourself.It'sthatwetendtomakeoursufferingworsethanitneedstobe.

Whatmeditationormindfulnessallowsyoutodoistodrawthelinebetweenusefulconstructiveanguish,anduselessrumination.Ifyouaregoingtotrytobegreatatanythingyeah,thereisgoingtobesomementalchurnandanguishattimes.Someworries.Someplotting.Someplanning.Somestrategizing.Somestress,butyouknow,onthe17thtimethatyou'repullingoutalloftheawfulramificationsofsomebusinessproblemthathasarisen,maybeaskyourself,thisissomethingmymeditationteachercounsels,maybeaskyourselfaverysimplequestion.Isthisuseful?Thatismindfulnessinaction.Yourabilitytodothatisvastlyimprovedthroughlearningthesimpleexerciseofmeditation.

DaveAsprey: InyourbookyouwriteabouthowPeterJenningstoldyoutocoverfaithinAmerica.Youjustsaidyoudon'thavetowearclothes.Youdon'thavetobelongtoanorganization.Thoseareusuallyaspectsoffaith.HowdidcoveringtheevangelicalmovementinAmericaeffectyourperspectiveonmeditation?

DanHarris: Thathappened.PeterpulledmeasideandsaidthathewantedmetostartcoveringfaithandspiritualityforABCNews.ThathappenedwaybeforeIstartedmeditatingoreventhoughtitwasanoption.Ididn'twanttodoit.Iwaslike,"Dude,don'tmakemedothis."IwasraisedinthePeople'sRepublicofMassachusetts.AsIsaid,bothofmyparentsarescientists.Idon'tknow.Isaidmymotherisascientist,butbothofmyparentsarescientists.Mywifeisascientist.IdidhaveaBarMitzvah,butonlyforthemoney.Iwasnotatallspirituallyinclined,butitwasveryusefulformecoveringreligionforacoupleofreasons.

1isIrealizedhowsortofreflexively,howignorantIwasaboutwhatfaithactuallyisandtheroleitplaysinpeople'slives.Iwaskindofreflexivelyjudgmental.2,isIsawthevalueofhavingaworldviewthattranscendsyourownnarrowinterests.Thereisanexpressionthatwearealways,whenyou'reneverlookingup,you'realwayslookingaround.WhileIdon'tbelieve,perse,orIamrespectfullyagnosticabouttheJesusstoryforexample.

WashethesonofGodwhorosefromthedead?Ihaven'tseenanyevidenceofthat,butnonetheless,peoplewhoareactivebelievershaveatimeeverySundaymorningat11,they'regoingtochurchandthey'rethinkingaboutthingsfromabroaderperspective.They'rethinkingoutsideoftheirownnarrowinterests.Thatisreallyuseful.ThatiswhatItookawayfromcoveringfaithandspiritualityeventhoughIdidn'tjoinachurchoranythinglikethat.ButIjustwillsaybecausethekindofmeditationthatIpractice,andIbelievethisistrueforyou,butyoucancorrectmeifI'mwrong,isBuddhistmeditation.NowIbelieveyouspentsometimeinTibet.


9

DaveAsprey: Yeah.NepalandTibet.Ilearnedatamonasterythere.

DanHarris: Yeah.Ithinkactuallyinsomewaysthekindoftherootofyourwholecoffee,partofthe

Tibetandcoffeemixture.

DaveAsprey: TheTibetanyakbuttertea.That'sright.That'showBulletproofCoffeecameabout.

DanHarris: Yes.I'mrememberingsomeofmytimewithyou.IthinkthatBuddhismcanbepracticedasareligionwithlotsofdeities,andprostration,andbeliefinmetaphysicalclaims.It'soneoftheonlyreligionsthatIknowofwherethemorefundamentalistyouget,thelessmetaphysicalyouget.IfyoulookatwhattheBuddhaactuallysaid,hewasnottalkingthatmuch.Hewasnotmakingthatmanymetaphysicalclaims.Hedidnotclaimtobeagod.Hehadnoexplanationfortheoriginsoftheuniverse.Hedidtalkaboutreincarnationandsortofminordeitiesandthingslikethat,buthespecificallysaid,"Youcantakeorleavethatstuff."Reallywhathewasdoingwasgivingyouanexerciseregimeforthemind.Ashasoftenbeensaid,"Buddhismisnotsomethingtobelievein.It'ssomethingtodo."InthatspiritIhavebecomeaBuddhist,althoughIwouldalsocallmyselfanatheist.

DaveAsprey: Thatisactuallyareallypowerfulwayofexpressingit.IusetheBuddhistattemptstoexplainfeelingsinthebodyallthetimewhenI'mmeditating,ordoingthethingsthatIdo.Ithinkthatit'sveryhardformetosay,"Well,okay.Inordertoletgoofwhateverthatemotionisthatwouldmakemeactlikeatotaljerk,step1isopentheheart,andstep2isenvisionapurplefield."Therearen'twordstoexpressaphysicalmanifestationofanemotioninthebody,soIthinkalotoftheBuddhistwritingsare,"EnvisiontheBuddhasittingona42petallotus."

It'stheirideaoftryingtocreatethefeelinginyourmindofitbecauseit'sveryhardtocommunicatebetween2people.Even2peoplewhomeditate."Youknowthatonethingyoudowhenyoudothatonething?"There'sjustnolanguageforit.Thousandsofyearsoftryingandwritingallsortsofrolledupmanuscripts,theystillarestrugglingwiththatasfarasIcouldtell,butthereissomethingaboutpayingattentiontothosefeelings,andthenlearningtotakethemfromoneplacetoanother.IfoundthatIwasokaywithbreathingexercisesthatweremoreHindubased,likeArtofLivingstuff.

WhichIdidwithalotofentrepreneursinSiliconValleyfor5years,butthenIreallyconnectedwhenIwasdoingtheBuddhistthingwithcomputerstellingmewhenmybrainwasdoingitright.ItwaslikerubberbumpersformeditationformewaswhenIfoundlike,oh.NowthatonefeelingthatIwastryingtogettothatIdidn'tknowIwastryingtogetto.Igotthere.Itwasthenumber7onthescreenkindofthing.ThatIbelieveisthefutureofmeditation.Haveyoudoneanyofthatkindofstuff?Heartratevariabilityandanyofthefeedbackbasedmeditations?

DanHarris: IhaveafriendnamedJuddBrewerwhoisareallyinterestingguy.Youmightwanttotakealookathim.He'sgotabookcomingoutinthenextcoupleofmonths.Idon'trememberthetitle,butDr.JuddsonBrewer.FormerlyofYale.NowtheheadofresearchattheUniversity


10

ofMassachusettsCenterforMindfulness.

DaveAsprey: Ohcool.Iwouldlovetomeethim.

DanHarris: Heisagreatguy.Heisafriendandheisaneuroscientist,oneofthetopneuroscientists.There'sthiswholecadreofneuroscientistswhohavebeenlookingattheeffectthatmeditationhasonthebrain.WhatJuddhasbeenworkingonis,firsthediditinFMRIs,butthosearehard.Thoseareveryexpensive.Thosearethebigtubesyougetinto,andtheylookatbloodflowinthebrain.ThenhemovedtosomethinglessexpensiveinvolvingEEG,sosortofelectrodesonyourhead,whichyouhadreferencedbefore,whichandthatgivesyou,themeditator,realtimefeedbackonwhatyouaredoing.

IhadaratherembarrassingexperiencewhereIwentanddiditanditwassayingthatIwasmeditatingincorrectly.ItwasbasicallysayingthatIwasashittymeditator.Itwasreallyembarrassing,andfrustrating,anddemoralizing.Thatnight,thedayIhadthatexperiencewithJuddinhisrig,hisEEGrig,IwenttodinnerwithbothJuddandaguynamedJosephGoldsteinwhoismymeditationteacher,andJudd'smeditationteacher.We'reatdinnerandIsaytoJosephMann,"LookIdidthisthing.IwasinJudd'sEEGmachine.IttoldmeIwasmeditatingincorrectly."Josephsaid,"Itsaidthesamethingtome."

WhatIhavetakenthattomeanisthatmeditationisso,weknowsolittleaboutthemind,andthebrain,andtheinterconnectionbetweenthe2,andwhat'shappeningwhenyoumeditate.Whatkindofmeditationdoeswhat.ThatIamreallyintriguedwithneuro-feedback,andgettingpeopletomeditatecorrectly,andstopwastingtheirtime.Ijusthavesomefundamentalquestionsabouthowdoableitis.ButIsuspectyouhavemorefullyformedopinionsthanIdo.

DaveAsprey: Ihavebeendoingit,well10weeksofmylifeI'vehadelectrodeson.Iopenedaneuro-feedbackinstituteearlierthisyear.I'vebeenbeforethatworkingwithavarietyofpartnersonmakingithappen,butit'sverydifferentthanmostofthelike,"Let'slookatthis."It'salldirectedbyyou.Brockwillyouhandmemyspiderhatthing?Infact,I'msoconvincedonthis,andwewon'tspendtherestoftheshowtalkingaboutthis.I'lljustmentionit.Thisislikeaclinicalgrade,24channelthing.LetmeseeifIcanholditupsoyoucanseeitbetter.

DanHarris: Yeah.Icanseeit.

DaveAsprey: EveryoneofthepeoplewhoworksatBulletproofgetsaccesstoneuro-feedbackaspartofouremployeeperformancemanagementbecauseitmakesthemhappier.Allofmydirectreportsgetthe5dayintensive,it'sbasically10hoursadayoffocusedworkwithneuro-feedbacklikethisandacoupleofothersystemsinordertogiveyourbrainthe2aspectsofBuddhistmeditationthatweknowabout,whichishigheralphaandhigherlevelofsynchrony.It'scompletely,that'swhythevoiceinmyheadbehavesitselfinthebestpossibleway.

It'soneofthosethingswherethere'ssomuchthatyoureadabout,andthere'ssomuchopportunityrightnowinneuro-feedback.There's$300devicesandallthesethings.Iam


11

notconvincedthatweknowenoughtosay,"Thisistheperfectoptimalstate,"butIthinkthereareclustersofpeoplewhohavebeenstudying,mostlymeditators,orpeoplewhojustnaturallyareprofoundlyhappy,orjusthaveotherunusualskills.Ortheyhavepocketsofinformation,butwehaven'tshareditallwithalltheneuroscientists.

Partlythat'sbecausetherehasbeenalotoflookatpathology,andnotalotoflookatwhydoesthispersonhavesuperpowers?Right.Theycanbeinthemiddleofatornado,andthey'relike,"Isn'tthatabeautifultornado?YeahImightdie,butit'sabeautifultornado."There'ssomekindofathingthatthey'redoingintheirbrainthatIwanttolearn.Idon'tknowthatI'velearneditalltheway,butformetohavemyownprogressIthoughtitwasimportanttohaveneuroscientistsworkingdirectlywithmewhoareveryfocusedonthat,soit'sbeenabigfocusinthelastyear.

DanHarris: Iagree.Ithinkthereisanenormousamountofpotential.Iamincrediblyintriguedbytheideaofneuro-feedback.I'dlovetolearnmoreaboutwhatyou'redoing.

DaveAsprey: Wecandothataftertheshow.Yeah.

DanHarris: Sure.It'sjusttomyminditseemstricky,butIthinkitwillbedone,anditwillbehuge.TheotherthingIwasgoingtosayaboutthe,youweretalkingbeforeaboutpathology.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

DanHarris: Thehistoryofourunderstandingofthemind,ascientificunderstandingofthemind,thehistoryofneuroscience,andpsychology,andpsychiatryhasreallybeenlookingatdisorder,dysfunction.We'renowmovingintoanearwherescienceislookingatwellbeing.Positivementalstatesandhowtocultivatethose.Thelessonhere,whetheryou'reinterestedinneuroscienceornot,thelessonforyouasahumanbeing,isthatyourmindistrainable.Thatisahugeheadlineandavailabletoanybody.Thingsyoudon'tlikeaboutyourself,youcan'tmagicallymakethemgoaway,butovertimeyoucanreducethelikelihoodthatyouwillbeanasshole,orthatyouwillbeimpatient,orthatyouwillbecrueltoyourself.Allofthesethingsyoucanworkonthroughmeditation.Thatisjustenormous.Ithinktheroleforneuro-feedbackinthatisjustEarthshatteringlyinteresting.Ilookforwardtowhatevercomes.

DaveAsprey: Iwouldlovetohavetheopportunitytointerviewyourneuroscientistfriendaswellasyourmeditationteacheriftheywouldbeupforthat.Anyonewhoisexploringthemind,whethertheyaredoingitbysittinginacavelookingatawallfor20yearsandlookingatwhathappens.Willtheylookatthewalloraretheydoingitwitheverykindofmedicalsensorknowntoman?It'sall,themostimportantareaofexplorationthatwehaverightnow,there'sMars,andthenthere'sinsideourownheads.Otherwisewehavedonealotofstuff.Doyouseearoleformeditationoranyofthesortofselfhelpsideofthingsthatyouhaveinvestigatedforkidsinhighschooloryounger?Whatisyourtakeonthat?

DanHarris: Yes.Yes.Yes.Forsure.Ithinkthisisanincrediblypromisingarea.We'realreadystartingtoseealotofworkbeingdoneinschools.We'reseeingsomestudiesofthesestudentsand


12

thepreliminaryresultsfromwhatIcantellarereallypromising.Bothasitpertainstobehaviorintheclassroom,andperformanceintheclassroom.Academicperformance,sofocus,grades,andbehavior.Idon'thaveallofmydataatmyfingertips,andIthinkit'sdefinitelyinitsgerminalstages,butvery,verypromising.Thetrickypartis,andthisisverytricky.

Wearealreadyseeingsomepushbackbecausesomeparents,especiallyinareaswhereyouhavehighlevelsofreligiositydon'tliketheideaofmeditationbeingbroughtinbecausetheybelievecorrectlythatit'sderivedfromeasternreligions.It'sderived,dependingonwhatkindofmeditationyou'reteaching,eitherfromHinduismorfromBuddhism.Theyarecorrectaboutthat,exceptfortheyareincorrect,inmyviewthatthewaythatit'scurrentlybeingtaughthassomereligiousovertones.

Idon'tthinkitdoes.Ithinkit'sbeenstrippedalmostentirelyofalmostineverycaseofmetaphysicalclaimsinreligiouslingo,andisreallyjustabouttheseexercisesforyourbrain.Itisnomore,meditationisnomoremindfulness,whichisthefruitofBuddhistmeditation,isnomoreBuddhistthanalgebrawhichisanArabicword,isaMuslimthing.Itisafundamental.It'salawoftheuniverse.It'sjustsomethingthathappenstobedescribedwellbytheBuddhist.

DaveAsprey: IwaslookingforthatexampleandIcameupwithtobacco,whichisaNativeAmericansacramentoryousmokeiteveryday.It'snotareligiousactanymore,butitoncewas.

DanHarris: Yes.Absolutely.

DaveAsprey: Wereyoubulliedinhighschool?

DanHarris: Alittlebit.Yeah.Bothdirections.Iwasalittlebitofabullyinelementaryschool.IremembermyfriendLarryandIgotintroublebecausewethoughtitwasveryfunnyinthewinterto,allthelittlekidsworehatswithpompomsonthetop.Wewouldgrabthepomandthrowitasfaraswecouldintheair.Wegotintroubleforthat.TheninjuniorhighIgotprettybadlybulliedbythisguy.Thiswaslikestraightoutofamovie.MugsyMalone.HisnamewasMugsyMalone.IrememberIwasabitofawiseasstill.Abitofawiseass.Iremembertelling,hewassortofmakingfunofmeforbeingJewish,althoughI'monlyhalfJewish.IexplainedtohimthatJesuswasaJew.HeCharlie-horsedmeandIhadtocrawltoclasscrying.MugsyMalonewentontobethesecretaryofeducationinMassachusetts.

DaveAsprey: Wow.Evenwiththatname,that'simpressive.

DanHarris: HisnicknamewasMugsy.HisnameisMatthew.Hegrewuptobeareallysmart,niceman.Yes.Idefinitelywas.Icapturedsomebullyingonbothsidesofthespectrum.Whydoyouask?

DaveAsprey: I'maskingbecauseI'veexperienced,alotofpeoplewhentheydomeditation,alotoftheanxietyactuallycomesupfromthat.Wewerejusttalkingabouthighschool.Itmademethinkofit.Becausewegetthatprogrammingearlyinlife.Ifyoujustfeelthreatenedby


13

whateverbullyingenvironment,youfindyearslaterthatyou'rereplicatingthat,andthenwhenyoustartapracticeofmindfulness,youstartrealizingthatI'mstilldefendingmyselfagainsttheseabsolutelystupidthreats,becausetheyaren'tthreatsanymore.Didthatcomeupwithyouinyourmeditationpractice?Orthesourcesofyouranxiety?OrwasitmorekindofIraqkindofstuff?

DanHarris: Youknow,soitisverycommon,andIthinkprobablyquitehealthyaslongit'snottoomuch,foryouranxietiesandmaybeevensometraumastocomeupwhenyouquietthemind.Whenyoustop,whenyougetoffthehamsterwheel,andyouarejustrighttherewithwhateverishappeninginyourmind,Ithinksomeofthesethingsaregoingtosurface.Interestinglyforme,notalotofthathashappened.Thatcouldmean1of2things.

EitherIamaterriblemeditator.Whichisentirelypossible.OrthatIhavehadareallycharmedlife.Iwasraisedby2lovingparentswhoarestilltogether.Ihaveaveryhappymarriage.Abeautifulkid.Anamazingcareer.Iwasbornonthirdbase.I'mawareofthatandverygratefulforit.Icertainlygetalotofselfcriticismthatcomesup.Alotofselfjudgement,sosomeunpleasantstuff,butnotalotofMahlermusicplayinginthebackdropofmyparticularpsyche.ButIthinkitisery,verycommon.

FortheaveragemeditatorIwouldargueifthathappens,aslongasit'snotintherealmofpsychopathology,likewhereyou'rehearingvoicesthataretellingyoutodobadthings.That'sokay.Infact,itcanbeasignofprogress.HoweverIthinkyoushould,ifthisishappeningandbecomingworrisometoyou,Ithinkyoushouldworkwithanexperiencedmeditationteacherand/orapsychiatrist,orpsychologist.

DaveAsprey: Verywellput.Ibelievethatifweteachmeditationtoyoungerkids,justforpeoplelistening,thereisalargeaudience,Idon'tmeanareligiousattemptatall.Nocandles.Nowhiterobes.Noneofthatstuff.Justlikehey,payattention.ThewayIteachmykids.Takeadeepbreathin.Whereistheemotioninyourbody?Justbreatheoutnow.Areyoufeelingsomeemotions?Tellmeaboutthem.Drawmeapictureoftheemotions.Justpayingattentiontowhattheyareinsteadofreactingtothemshiftstheframing.

Ithinkifweteachkidsthatwewouldseelessbullying,andlessofthehighschoolviolence,andevenmiddleschoolviolencethatwe'reseeingnow.Whenyougetintothatsituationasakid,yourbrainisn'tdone.It'saveryyoungbrain.It'sliketrainingapuppy.Puppies,theystillpeeontherugandtheydowhatever.Eventuallytheybecomeeitherservicedogsortheybecomelikethedogthattearsupthefurniture,orthedogthatbitesalltheotherdogs.

Mybrainwasprobablyclosertothedogthatbitesalltheotherdogs.Nowit'srelativelyservicedoglike.Younaileditexactly.Thebraincanbetrained.Ikindofdolookatitlikeadog.It'sananimalthing.Itisananimal.It'spartofourmeat.Whenyoulookatallofthethingsyouhavedone,whathasbeenthesinglemosteffectivemeditationforyouDan?

DanHarris: LetmejustsayfirstofallthatItotallyagreewithyou.Everythingyousaid,Idothinkthatitis,itcouldbeveryfruitfultoteachtoyoungpeople,andtheyobviouslyhaveitappears,the


14

malleabilityalthoughwhatmodernneuroscienceisshowingisthatthebraincanchangeandischangingallthetime.Thequestionisareyougoingtobeincontrolofthosechangesorareyougoingtoletthemhappenwillynilly?

Iwouldn'tsaythere'sonekind.Peopleaskmeallthetime,"Whatmeditationdoyoudo?"It'salittlebitofatrickyanswer.Iguesstheanswerwouldmemindfulnessmeditation.Whatdoesthatactuallymean?MindfulnessmeditationisderivedfromBuddhism.That'swhatweteachonthisTenPercentHappierappthatI'vejuststarted.Actuallyweshareaventurecapitalist.GusTy.Whoinvestedinyourcompany,isaninvestorinmycompany.

DaveAsprey: HowdidInotknowthat?I'veknownGusformanyyears.Ohmygosh.

DanHarris: Wellhe'sanewpersoninmylife.He'sbeenaphenomenallyhelpfulindividual.Iamnewtobusiness.Wejustraisedourcapital6,8monthsago.Guswasreally,hewroteoneofthebiggestchecks.He'sbeenincrediblyhelpful.Really.He'saspecialguy.Let'sjustsaythat.Helovesyou.

DaveAsprey: ThanksforconnectingthosedotsbecauseIknowTenPercentHappierisoneoftheircompanies,butIjustconnectedthetitleofyourbookwiththecompany.Ohmygoodness.Okay.BasicallythisisaSandhillRoadventurecapitalcompany.ThefirstguystoinvestinStarbucksandJambajuice.Theyinvestedinyou,yousaid6monthsago?

DanHarris: 6to8monthsago.

DaveAsprey: 6to8months.Okay.It'sbeenprobablyayearandahalfforBulletproof.I'veknownGusfordefinitelymorethan10years.Hesitsonmyboardofdirectors.Whatasmallworld.Ididnotmakethatconnection.Mybad.

DanHarris: Heisreallybullishonyourbusiness.Hereallylikesyoupersonally.You'vecomeupabunchoftimesinourconversations.Justtoansweryourquestion,ontheappweteachmindfulnessmeditation.Secularmindfulnessmeditation.Mindfulness.Whatismindfulness?Mindfulnessistheabilitytoknowwhatishappeninginyourheadrightnowwithoutgettingcarriedawaybyit.Thatisreallythefruit.Mindfulnessandfocuswhicharerelated.That'sreallythefruitofsecularmeditation.That'swhatwe'reteachingontheapp.

Iguessinmyownpersonalpracticethough,IasIsaidbefore,IamalittlebitmoreinterestedinBuddhistmeditation.MindfulnessisderivedfromBuddhistmeditation.SomepeoplegetalittlehinkyaboutBuddhismbecausetheythinkit'sareligion.AndasIsaidbeforeinsome,inmanyplacesitispracticedasareligion,butIthinkyoucanpracticeitwithoutitbeingreligious.Dependingonwhatyoumeanbyreligious.

Mindfulnessmeditationhasbeenhugelyusefulforme.Why?Forthereasonsthatwe'vejustdiscussed.It'sthatweallhavethisvoiceinourhead.It'sconstantlyyammeringatus.Hasuswantingstuff.Notwantingstuff.Thinkingaboutthepastorthinkingaboutthefuturetothedetrimentofwhateverishappeningrightnow.Comparingourselvestopeople.Judgingotherpeople.Judgingourselves.Whenyou'reunawareofthischaosof


15

yourownmind,myfriendSamHarrissaysthatwhenhethinksaboutthevoiceinhishead,hefeelslikehehadbeenhijackedbythemostboringpersonalivewhosaysthesameshitoverandover.Samisright.

Whenyouareunawareofthis,ityanksyouaround.It'swhyyoufindyourselfwithyourhandinthefridgewhenyou'renothungry,oryou'resayingsomethingstupidthatyoulaterregret.Oryou'recheckingyoure-mailinthemiddleofaconversationwithyourkids.Thatreallyhasbeenwhathaschangedmylife.Ijokinglyusethetermtenpercenthappier,againjustaskindofajoke,butwhatInowhavecometobelieveisthatthetenpercentcompoundsannually.Thatyougetbetterandbetteratthisskill.Therereallyisnoceiling.It'snotlikephysicalexercisewhereyouarelimitedbyyourbody.Themindhas,islimitlessinmanyways.Youcangetbetter,andbetter,andbetteratthis.Itonlygetsmoreinteresting.

DaveAsprey: Asyou'vebeendoingthissecularpractice,haveyoueverhadaspiritualexperienceduringmeditation?

DanHarris: Wellitdependshowyoudefinespiritualright?

DaveAsprey: Itdoes.

DanHarris: SpiritualhasalotofconnotationsthatIamnotpersonallycomfortablewith,likemetaphysicalconnotation.Bywhich,bymetaphysicalImeanstuffyoucan'tprove.Butifyouthinkaboutspiritualasdroppingthebordersoftheego.Whereyou'renotsotightlyconfinedbythisStalinistinyourhead,thenyes.Allthetime.There'sonesimplelittleexercise.Idon'tknowifyou'refriendswithSamHarris.He'saneuroscientistandleadingatheist,butalsoanactingmeditatorandheistheonewhoconnectedmewithmyteacherJosephGoldstein.

DaveAsprey: Ohwow.

DanHarris: Samtalks.Hehasabookcalled'WakingUp'.It'sareallygreatbook.Hetalksaboutthisexercise.Herecommendsthisexerciseinhisbook,whichisactuallybasedonanexerciseinanotherbook.I'mreferencingalotofbooksherebeforeIactuallytellyouwhattheexerciseis.Theotherbookiscalled'OnHavingNoHead'.'OnHavingNoHead'isthenameofthebook.Okay.Theexercisesoundedtome,alittlesillyatfirst.Overtimeithasbecomeincrediblymeaningfultome.Thisisthesillypart.

Fromyourperspectiveeverybodyintheworldhasahead.Butyoudonot.Youcan'tseeyourownhead.Youseeeverybodyelse'shead,butyoudon'tseeyourownhead.Ifyoujustimagineyourselfinastateofheadlessnessallthatisleftistheworld.Thereisnoyou.Thisyouthatislikethecenterpointofyourlife.Thatisalwayswanting,andnotwanting,andnotcaring,needsallofthiscare,andfeeding,andisworryingallthetime.Butifyoujustdropthatforasecondandrealizethatactuallyifyoulookaroundit'sjusttheworld.

Whatislookingout?Thisyawningchasmofpureknowingtogetalittleheavywithyou.It's


16

justthisknowingfacultyofthemind.Thatisaspiritualexperience.Rightthere.Easilyandperenniallyavailable,andspiritualinthatitshavesdowntheego.Theegois,onecouldargue,thesourceofallofyourunhappiness.

DaveAsprey: Changingyourframeofreferencehere.Perceptionisreallyprofound.I'vebeenlookingforwaystomakethathappenquickly,andtobeabletoshareitwithotherpeople.AttheBulletproofConferencethisyearonSeptember23inPasadena,yesthatwasablatantplug.

DanHarris: CanIjustsaythatIhavenoproblemwithblatantplugs?Justfortherecord.

DaveAsprey: WellIappreciatethat.Plusit'smyshow.IcanplugwhateverIwant.YouknowwhatImean.

DanHarris: Yes.Amen.

DaveAsprey: Hereiswhatwearedoingthoughthatistotallyinlinewiththis.ThisissomethingthatactuallyweareputtingtogetherinthelabwhereIaminterviewingatrightnow.It'sanexperienceforpeoplewhocometotheconference.Theyputonvirtualrealitygoggles.Theyarefedarealtimevideofeedfromacamera,butthecameraismountedupbehindtheirhead.Allofasuddeninsteadoflookingoutthroughyoureyes,youarelookingoutthroughthecameraatthebackofyourself.Thenyougothroughalittleobstaclecourse.Youplayyourselflikeavideogame.

InstantlyyoursenseofselfmovesfromohnoI'mtrappedinthishead,toIamoutsideofthisbodylookingdown,andyourlevelofawarenessgoesup.Yourskintingles.Youhavealltheseinterestingfeelings.Theonlyproblemisthatifyou'repronetodis-associativestatesyou'renotallowedtodoitbecauseitmightbebadforyou,sowehaveawaiverandalittlewarningthere.Butit'sexactlywhatyoujustdescribedthere.

DanHarris: Ilovethat.

DaveAsprey: Takingtheeyesoutoftheheadandputtingthembehindtheheadsothatyou'renotinyourheadanymore.Theveilcomesdown.It'ssocool.

DanHarris: Absolutely.Ithinkthat'sabrilliantthingthatyou'redescribing.Itjustreallypointstothefactthatthisexpressionof,"I'minmyheadsomuch."Beinginyourhead.Beingselfconsciousiswhatmakesitimpossibletoaccessthezoneinsports,ortofocusonyourworkbecauseyou'resoworriedaboutwhatevershityouareworriedabout.Orsofocusedonfeedingwhateveraddictionyouhave,likecigarettes,orfood,orwhatever.Oritmakesitimpossibletogetupanddanceatyourdaughter'swedding.Exercisesliketheoneyoujustdescribedareincrediblyuseful.Meditationwhichrequiresalittlebitmoretime,butnotthatmuchmoretime,isjustawaytogetyouthere.

DaveAsprey: Verywellsaid.Doyoudobreathingexercisesinconjunctionwithyourmeditation?

DanHarris: Idon't,butI'mveryopentothem.I'veheardverypowerfularguments.Youtalkedabout


17

theArtofLiving.IsthatSriSriRaviShankar?

DaveAsprey: Yeah.

DanHarris: Ithinkso.Iknowthescientistwhoisanotherpersonyoushouldthinkabouthavingonyourpodcast.I'membarrassinglyspacingonhername.Itwillcometobeinasecond,butsheisabigdevoteeof,she'satStanfordUniversity.She'saheadofresearchatthecenterforcompassionat,EmmaSeppalaishername.EmmaSeppala.

DaveAsprey: We'llgetherontheshowtoo.Thisisawesome.

DanHarris: Sheisgreat.Icanhelpyoubookthispodcastinherpertuityifyouwouldlike.

DaveAsprey: Thankyou.Iwouldlike.

DanHarris: Sheisabigbelieverinbreathingexercises.Thereappeartobeanumberofstudiesthatshowitreallyworks.I'mveryopenmindedandintriguedaboutit.Before,youmayhavesomethingstosayaboutthat,butbeforeitleavesmymindletmejustextendaninvitationbecauseIwould,andthisisasincereoneandIwillfollowupwithyourfolksonthis.IjuststartedafewmonthsagoalittleTenPercentHappierpodcast.I'mnewtothegame.I'mnowherenearatyourlevel,butIwouldlovetohaveyouonbecauseyou'vebeenaskingmegreatquestionsandlettingmeyammeronaboutmyowncrap,butIwouldlovetoreverseitandhaveyouon,andaskyouabunchofquestions.Thinkaboutit.

DaveAsprey: Iwouldbehonoredtobeaguest,andthatwasagreatplug.TenPercentHappierpodcast.Dan'snewpodcast.Yousayyou'renewtothegame,butlet'sfaceit,you'vebeenonnationalnewsmoretimesthanjustabout99,actuallyIdon'tknowhowmany9stodo,butalmostanyhumanbeingever.

DanHarris: Yeah.

DaveAsprey: I'mprettysureyouknowhowtointerviewandhowtorollaprettynicepodcast.I'dbehonoredtobeon.Ithinkforpeoplelisteningtotheshow,hereiswhattheydon'ttellyouaboutpodcasting.Interviewingisaskillandanart.Iwouldgivemyselfmaybea5outofa10.Danhasspenthislifedoingit,soheknowshowtointerviewpeopleandhowtogetthestoryinawaythatIhaveyettoevenexperience.You'regoingtohaveagoodlisteningexperience.Icansaythatnothavinglistenedtoyourshow,butjustknowingyourskillsinyourcraft.I'mactuallyexcitedtobeon.

DanHarris: WellthankyoubecauseIamgoingtobugyouaboutthat.Thethingaboutpodcastingthat'sinterestingthough,isactuallytheamateurshaveanadvantagebecause,andImaybewrongaboutthis,butletmejustadvancethetheoryandthenyoucanswatitaway.Iwasbornandraisedformorethan20yearsinnetworknews.Ihavethisveryformalwayaboutme.

Oftenprofessionalinterviewersaren'tevenlisteningtotheanswersbecausethey'reso


18

wrappedupinthinkingaboutwhatthenextquestiontheyaregoingtoaskis.Aguylikeyouisjustlikeliterallyhavingaconversation.It'smaybenot,it'sprettypolished,butit'smaybenotaspolishedasCharlieRose.That'snotwhatpodcastlistenerswant.Theywantauthenticity.Theywantarealconversationandarealexchangebetween2minds,orhowevermanymindsareonthepodcast.Iwouldsayyou'rewellabovea5,andthat'sbecausemaybeyou'renotmeasuringitintherightway.

DaveAsprey: Iamgratefulforthecompliment.Idon'tlistentoverymanypodcasts.Partlybecausemycommuteisthroughthegardenthatraisestheroofofmyfamily.Mymorningcommutehasnothingtodo,butthereisatleastaquarterofamillionpodcastsrightnow.Whenyoulistentoalotofthem,youtakeaparttheonesthatjustdon'thaveproductionqualitywherethesoundqualityisgoodenoughtoberespectfulofthelisteners.

Peoplehavenoidea.Thereisstudiolighting.Thereis3camerasfocusedonme.Thereare2audiothings.Wedoaudioengineeringandallthatsoitsoundsgood.Becauseitispainfultolistentopeoplewithbadaudio.Buteventhen,therearesomanyofthesewherepeopledon'thaveanythingtosay,buttheyfeelobligatedtotalk.Ithinkthisistheegothatyou'retalkingaboutthere.Ifyouaredoingapodcastthathasapoint,thatistheretodeliversomething,ithasmoreincommonwiththenews.Youaretheretodeliversomething.Youaredoingwhatyouaretrainedtodo.

Yourstyleofinterviewwillbedifferent,butIfindthesignaltonoiseratiointheworldpodcastingisvery,it'snotverygood.Thereisalotofnoiseoutthereandnotalotofsignal.Youhavebeenprettywelltrainedtodeliverasignal,anditsoundslikenowyou'retrainingisgoingtobelessinyourheadwhenyou'redoingit,andtobealittlebitmoreflowingthenyounormallywouldifyouhadatelepromptertellingyouthenextquestion,thenextquestion.

BrotherI'mtotallyjustguessingallthat.I'vebeeninterviewedbyyou.Youdidn'thaveteleprompters.Youwereatmyhousewhenyouinterviewedme.Youdidacoolsegment.Idon'tknowhowyoudoyourcraft,butthequestionsyouaskedmetherewereprobing.Theywereintelligent.Youlistenedtotheanswers.Youaskedtherightfollowingquestions.Thatabilitytobelinearseemstobelackinginsomepodcasts.It'sonethatI'mworkingon,butIdon'twanttobetoolinearbecauselikeyousaid,thenitcomesoffasprogrammatic,anditwouldn'tbefuntolistento.Thenwhat'sthepoint,right?

DanHarris: Youactually,youtotallynailedwhatthechallengesareforsomebodylikemeingettingintopodcasting.It'sreallyaboutdroppingsomeoftheartificeandpretensethatcomeswithsittingatadeskwithalltheselights.Talkingintoacamerawithamillionunseenviewersontheothersideofitwhichisaverysurrealthingtodo,andtobemoreliketheDanthatchitchatswithhiswifeorwithhisfriends.Thathasbeenabitofaprocess.Ireallythinkthatthereisaconnectionbetweengoodinterviewingandmeditation.

DaveAsprey: Ohheckyeah.

DanHarris: Thatmeditationjustallowsyou,ittrainsyouovertimetoberighttherewithwhateveris


19

happening,sonotsocaughtupinplanningthenextquestionorwhateverpointyouwanttomakesothatI'mlisteningtoyoutalk.Iamabletorecallthe3or4thingsthatyousaidthatIwanttorespondto.OrwhenI'mdoingapodcast,Icanhaveaplan.WhenI'mtheinterviewer.I'mtheintervieweronmyownpodcast.IcanhaveaplanforthewayIwantthingstogo,butIamtotallywillingtothrowthatplanoutbasedonwhattheintervieweesaysandjustgodownwhatevertributarythatpersonwantstoleadmedown.

DaveAsprey: It'sprettyamazing.Ihadn'tthoughtofitlikethat,butyeah.Inordertodowellonstageasapublicspeaker,IusedtocomeintothatwhenIstarteddoingthis,Iwasinacompletestateofpanic.Iwouldgointoaflowstatewhichwasreallyhelpful.Inmyearlydaysofpublicspeaking.AfterIdidthemeditationandallthisotherstuffIgottothepointwhereIhavethelowlevelawarenesstookaymaybethere'sahostilequestionintheaudience.Maybethereisnot.Maybetheslidesareworkingright,ormaybethereisatechnicalerror,ormaybetheyjustgavemehalfthetimeIhad.

NoneofitmakesmefeellikeI'mgoingtodieanymore.It'sthatfearthing.Becausemyfearresponseistrained.It'slikethepolicedog.Youcanhearagunfireanditdoesn'tjumpupandcower.Tobeabletositthereandhearwhateverthenextquestionis.MaybeIdecidednottogothatroute.Thereisn'tthevisceralresponsethatIwouldhavehadbefore.Ohno.WhatifIdon'tgothere?MaybeIwilldie.Ormaybenoonewilllikeme.Yougodowntheseincrediblespirals.ItwillbetheendofBulletproofradio.Peoplewillmakefunofme.Noonewilllikeme.

Allthatstuffthatwouldhavebeenthereinmyheadisjustlikeoh.I'mgoingtodothisandeitheroneoftheseisokay.Thatfreesupsomuchmitochondrialcapacitytothenlisten,andtobepresent.Verywellput.Ihadn'tthoughtofitthatway.Thankyouforthat.

DanHarris: YouknowthereisaBuddhisttermforwhatyoujustdescribed.It'sliketheselittlemovieswemake.It'scalledPrapanca.P-R-A-P-A-N-C-A.Whichmeans,andthisisanamazing,it'samazingthattheBuddhistscameupwithaphraselikethis.Itliterallymeanstheimperialistictendencyofmind,whichisthatwe,adatapointarises.Likeyouhaveamomentoffear.Thenyouautomatically,itcolonizesthewholefuture.You'relikeokay.IaskedaquestionthatI'mnotsureistherightquestion.Theguestisgoingtohateme.Theaudienceisgoingtohateme.It'sgoingtobetheendofBulletproofRadio.I'mgoingtobelivingonthestreetsomewhere.Thathappensinasecond.

DaveAsprey: Exactly.

DanHarris: Ihavea1andahalfyearold.Hewon'tbrushhisteeth.It'slikehewon'tbrushhisteeth.He'snevergoingtobrushhisteeth.He'sgoingtohavemethmouth.He'snevergoingtohaveajob.It'slikethathappensimmediately.Weliveourwholeliveswiththisgoingon.Wedon'tevenknowwhat'shappening.NowI'msureyourlistenersaresortofnoddingtheirheadbecausethishappenstoeverybody,butthebeautyandthevalueofmeditation,ofhavingthisselfawareness,mindfulness,isthatyoucancatchthatandgetoffthetrainearlierbeforeyougokickthedogorwhateveritisthatyoudowhenyougetfrustrated.


20

DaveAsprey: Wetalkedaboutbeinginyourhead.Thatwholethinghappensalmostoutsideofyourhead.It'sunconscious.Youfeeltheemotion,butthestepsthatleduptoit,unlessyou'rewatchingthem,you'renotgoingtoseethem.Thenyou'rejustlikeokayIfeelthisway.Theremustbeareason.Thenyoumakeupastoryaboutthereasonwhichisclearlythedog'sfault,soyoushouldkickthedog.Itdoesn'tmakeyoufeelbetter.

IhadanexperiencewhenIfirstgotintothepersonaldevelopmentsideofthings.Ihadbeenthrougharoughdivorce.Ilostthe$6millionImadewhenIwas26.Whichokay,thoseareacoupleofthebigWHOstressors.Iwasatapersonalgrowthretreat.Thepeopleleadingitweresaying,"WellDave,there'sgottobesomefeelingsinthere."Yeah.There'safeeling.I'mangry.They'relike,"No,there'sotherfeelingsinthere."I'mlike,"No,there'snot."Ispent2daysgoingthroughthisargumentallinmyhead.Nope.Angry.Nothing.Anger.Finallytheydidsomethingsthatjustmademefeeluncomfortable.I'vegottoleavenow.No.There'ssomething.Finallythisladylooksatmeandshegoes,"Okaydoyoufeelanythinginyourbody?"Igo,"Yeah.There'ssomethinginmystomach."Shelooksmerightintheeyesandshegoes,"Doyouknowwhatthatis?That'scalledfear."IlookedatherandIgo,"Really?"

ItwasbecauseIwassoinmyheadthatIhadthisstorythat'slikethere'snoreasonformetobeafraidrightnow.Thereforethatfeelingisnotfear.Thereforeyoushouldignoreitbecauseit'snoise.Forme,thebiggestpartoflearningtobeagoodpodcasterortojustbeagoodCEO,oragoodhusband,hasbeentolearnthere'sgreatvalueinpayingattentiontoalltheweirdstuffthat'shappeningandthenfiguringoutwhyit'shappening.Notmakingupastoryaboutwhyit'shappening.Butactuallywatchingittoseewhyit'shappening.Thengoingbackandfiguringwheredidthat,inmyviewoftheworld,wheredidthatbadprogrammingcomefromthat'scausingthatfornogoodreason?Andthen,andthishasbeenmybiggestchallenge,howdoyouresettheprogrammingsoitdoesn'thappenanymore?

Rathertrainingthedogtositstill,it'slikeanotherlevelbeyondthat,sothereisn'ttheimpulseinthefirstplace.That'sapowerfulthing,andthat'swhereveryadvancedmeditationfrommanydifferentpathscanleadyou,andwheresomepsychologistscanleadyoutoo.It'sbeenthemostfunthingtoexploreI'veeverthoughtofbecauseIwassuchanassholebecauseIwasalwaysactingonthat,andIjustdidn'tknowit.Right.

DanHarris: Yeah.ImeanIthinkwhatyou'retalkingaboutisenlightenment.Whatmeditationintheshallowendofthepool,themylevel.I'veonlybeendoingitforlike7yearsisreallyaboutbeingselfawareenoughsothatyou'renottriggeredbyblindlybyyourpatternsorbyexternalstimuli.ButenlightenmentintheBuddhistconceptionisthatyouuprootallnegativetendencies,andthatit'sastepwiseprogression.TherearetheseverydetailedmapsinthevariousBuddhistschoolsfromhowyougetfromwhattheycallanuninstructedworld-ling,sobasicallyme.

Tostep,tohavingasetofexperiencesthathavebeenmappedoutformillenniathatultimatelyculminateallegedly.Isaythat.IwanttoputemphasisonthatbecauseIhavenotseenanyevidenceforit,butallegedlyculminateinthecompleteuprootingofgreed,


21

hatred,andconfusion.Ortouseyourexpressionyoudeprogramandthebugisgone.

DaveAsprey: Ibelievethereissomethingtothat.ThedefinitionofenlightenmentthatIworkwithiswhenyouhavefullcontrolandawarenessofallaspectsofyourbiology,whichsoundskindofsmall,butifyouhaveknowledgeofwhateverycellinyourbodyisdoing.Everymitochondria,allthesesensorsfortheworldaroundyou,yourealizethattheworldisnothinglikewhatyouthoughtitwas.Becauseyouhaveactuallygrownthatlevelofawareness.That'swhereI'mworking.Justgrowingawareness.

Whenyougrowawarenessitautomaticallymakesyoulessofanasshole.You'renicertopeoplearoundyouandyou'remoreinaposition,andyouhavemoredesiretoserveotherpeople.Icouldbeentirelywrongonallofthis,butIamhappieralongtheway.IwouldliketothinkIammorethan10percenthappierthanIusedtobe.Itseemstobeworking,butI'lltellyouwhenI'm180.

DanHarris: Nice.Excellent.

DaveAsprey: NowDanwearecomingupontheendoftheshow,andthereisaquestionIhaveaskedeveryone.Youhaveaveryuniquesetofexperienceshavingvisitedallofthesechurchesandallofthesewarzones.HavingbeenonTVforsolong.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrow,giveneverythingthatyouknow,andsaid,"LookIwanttoperformbetterateverythingIdo.Iwanttokickmoreassinlife.Whatarethe3mostimportantthingsIneedtoknow?"Whatwouldyoutellthem?

DanHarris: Looknoneofthisisgoingtobesurprising,butthe3,Iwouldsay4thingsthatarelikethebasicrecipeforhumanflourishingarethebasicbodily,I'llkeepitthe3,thebasicbodilymaintenancelikeexercise,anddiet,andsleep.Becausewithoutthatyoucan'tfunction.AndIknowyouareinterestedinlotsofhacksaroundthoseareas.I'mopentothattoo.Butyou'vegottofigurethatout.2isgreatrelationshipsinyourlife.

Wearesocialanimals.Withoutgoodrelationshipswegocrazy.Thequickest,youlistentoJohnMcCainhesays,"TheworstpartaboutbeingaPOWwasnotthebeatings,itwassolitaryconfinement."Weneedtohavegoodrelationshipsinourlife.Ithinkthethirdwhichforfartoolonghasbeenignoredismentaltraining.Allofthemeditationthatwe'vetalkedaboutfortheselastfewminutes.Thosearethe3thingsIwouldrecommendassortofapathtoexcellenceandhappinessinyourlife.

DaveAsprey: Beautifulanswers.Wherecanpeoplefindoutmoreaboutyourbook,aboutyourapp,aboutyourcompany,andanyotherplaceyouwanttosendthem?

DanHarris: Thankyouforlettingmeshamelesslyplug.Ireallydoappreciatethat,althoughthishasbeenfunoneveryconceivablelevel,butIalsoappreciatetheplug.

DaveAsprey: Ofcourse.

DanHarris: Thebookyoucangetitanywhere.Amazon.Whatever.It'scalled'TenPercentHappier'.The


22

appisrightnowit'sintheAppleappstore.We'reworkingonanAndroidversion.Ifyoudon'thaveanAppledeviceyoucangetitatTenPercentHappier.com.Iwouldlovetohearfromyouoryourusersabouttheappbecausewe'rereallysortofatthebeginningstages.We'reastartup.IlovehearingfrompeopleifyouhitmeonTwitter@DanBHarris.Tellmewhatyouthinkofthething.

It'sfreetostartwith.Youcancheckitout,anddownloadit,andtryitforacoupleofdays.Whatwedothatwethinkisinterestingisthatweeveryday,everydayyougetvideoandaudio.Everytimeyouusethething.Andyoucanskipthevideoifyoudon'twanttodoit.Everydayeitheryougetmeforacoupleofminuteschitchattingwithameditationteacherandaskingalloftheobnoxiousquestionsyoumighthave.Thenitgoesrightintoaguidedmeditation.Theotherthingwedothatisdifferentiswegiveyouacoach.Likearealhumanbeingthatyoucantextwiththroughtheappandaskanyquestionyouhave.Thatpersonisarealhumanbeingandanexperiencedmeditatorwhocanhelpyouout.

Thenifyouwanttolistentothepodcastit'savailableeverywherethatpodcastsareavailable.LikeIsaid,Ilovehearingfrompeoplewhousethisstuff.Readthebook,orlistentothepodcast,orusetheapp.InparticularIlikehearingwhereIamgoingwrongandwhatIshouldfix.IfyouhitmeonTwitterthat'stheonesocialmediumwhereIactuallydoreadthecomments.

DaveAsprey: ThankyouDan.

DanHarris: Hugepleasurebeingonhere,andI'mgoingtoholdyoutolettingmeturnthetablesonyou.Thankyouanditwon'tbetheend.

DaveAsprey: You'reverywelcome.Ifyouenjoyedtoday'sepisodeyouknowwhattodo.Gopickupacopyof'TenPercentHappier'.Danisaninterestingguy.IfyousawthatoriginalpieceonModafinalorProvidualandmethatIamsurewehavelinkedtoonthewebsite,thatwasactuallyDanatmyhouse.YearsagoheflewoutfromNewYorkwithacameracrewtofilm.Whatasmallworld.Whatafascinatingworldthathereweareabout5yearslatertalkingonapodcast,andIgettointerviewyou.Neverwouldhaveimagined.Supercool.Ilookforwardtohangingoutagain.

DanHarris: Thankyousir.

MaleVoiceover: Thanksforwatching.Don'tmissout.Tokeepgettinggreatvideoslikethisthathelpyoukickmoreassatlife,subscribetotheBulletproofYouTubechannelatBulletproofExec.com/YouTube.StayBulletproof.

transcript – mind, buddha & spirit with dan harris -...

Documents