the untold - high stakes transcript
TRANSCRIPT
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The Untold
High Stakes
Transmission: 11:02am, Monday 11th January 2016
Network: BBC Radio 4
Presenter: Grace Dent
Interviewer/Producer: Laurence Grissell
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Synopsis
The Untold is a BBC Radio 4 series in which Grace Dent presents the untold dramas of 21st
century Britain.
In this edition, the stakes couldn’t be higher for 26 year old Steve: he needs to prove he’s
quit gambling by Christmas in order to move back in with his partner and two kids.
Producer Laurence Grissell follows Steve as he attempts to win back Stacey’s trust in time
for the Christmas festivities in the family home.
MUSIC
Grace
Love’s a gamble. You take your chances don’t you?
Act. Door opens
Steve
Hello, are you alright? Alright kiddies?
Act. Children laugh
Grace
When Stacey saw Steve 10 years ago – that’s him arriving home from work – she took a
chance and fell head over heels [in love]. Stacey and Steve live in a little rented house on a
‘60s estate in Basingstoke. She’s a receptionist and he works in customer services.
Lily
Dinner time!
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Stacey
Come on then.
Grace
They’re one of those hardworking families you hear politicians banging on about.
Callum
… so tasty.
Grace
That’s their son, Callum, he’s six.
Actuality
Lily
Always tasty.
Grace
And Lily, she’s two. Callum is fair-haired and smiley and Lily, she’s a tiny strawberry blond
bundle.
Actuality
Lily
Eating my dinner, eating my dinner…
Grace
And for them this is just a normal family night, it’s October, there’s meatballs, they’re
chatting and giggling.
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Lily
I’m just talking Callum
Grace
But that’s not the full story. Stacey’s gamble on Steve hasn’t quite paid off.
Stacey
Eat it nicely.
Grace
And the decision she needs to make now is the biggest risk of her life.
Actuality
Steve
… do you want to come and pick you pyjamas sweetie…
Grace
After dinner it’s Callum and Lily’s bedtime.
Stacey
Give us a kiss Callum.
Steve
Mum, mum, I love you so much!
Steve
We love you so much.
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Grace
With the kids both tucked up in bed it’s time for Steve to go, because he doesn’t live with
his children anymore.
Steve
The weather could be better today, I will be honest.
Grace
Stacey has kicked Steve out.
Act. Steve lights cigarette, rain, footsteps
Grace
He’s down the road sleeping on the sofa at his stepdad’s. Over three months producer
Laurence Grissell has been following him.
Laurence
So how long has it been on the – sleeping on the sofa?
Steve
Since April, since April, I was at my auntie’s before that but she had some relatives move
over… or back across from Australia.
Laurence
What’s it like sleeping on the sofa for such a long amount of time?
Steve
It’s – it’s uncomfortable, I think it’s the fact I’ve got nothing of my own.
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Act. Cigarette lighter
I’ve got nothing of mine at the moment and also, I mean, I’m a burden on other people, I’m
interrupting their week. You’re sort of on the edge of your seat all the time, you can’t
relax, making sure I’m out of people’s way. I’ve been enough trouble for people as it is. I’ve
been a burden for long enough. Just, you know, as and when Stacey’s happy for me to come
back.
MUSIC
Grace
This is The Untold.
Steve
It was just as simple as the local shop we had had a Coral bookmakers [betting shop]
opposite and, um… yeah just a couple of signs and that and you find yourself going in. And
before you know it the first thing I did in the morning I’d check the hashtag on Twitter,
which was “bookie bashing” and you see people put their winnings up, screenshots, and
you’ll see people bag thousands of pounds. I think there was one guy he crashed William
Hill [a betting shop] for the weekend. You think blimey this guy’s having a dream -
£180,000. So you think 180, wow you know, he’s sorted, he’s sussed, he’s got it made now
this guy. You think, ah, I’m going to do something here.
MUSIC
Act. Football commentary
Steve
You saw the winners but you never saw the losers.
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I always thought I was on top of it but we all got the apps on the phone, so you’ve got the
apps, I had a few online accounts and I didn’t think nothing of it. And the more I started
playing online the more things that you see, I mean the promotional emails were just
something else. I mean I signed up with Sky Bet, Paddy Power, Bet Fair [gambling websites]and I didn’t put any limits on it. And at that point it just grew and grew and grew.
If I lost a Friday night football match I made sure I hit the 11 o’clock Saturday Dutch game
and if I missed that I had the 12.30 kick off in the premier league. If that didn’t happen I’ve
got all the 3 o’clocks in the Premier League, the Championship League, one league two,
even the Spanish league which kicked off a bit later. If there was nothing I’ve got the 5.30
on the Premiership and if you lose you’re chasing a win, even to the point where Barcelona
and that kick off 9 o’clock on a Sunday evening, so I could occupy myself from the Friday
night with a good 15, 16 different times of matches to try and pick up a win. And then all
the time I’m still doing my slots [gambling or “fruit” machines]. Every time I went for a
cigarette – 50 quid, security number, deposit.
Laurence
And the slots were on the phone?
Steve
The slots were on the phone. I’m not happy putting £50 into a machine, I can’t do that, but
if I click on my phone and say 50 quid, security number, deposit, it’s just digits. I mean I
started borrowing money off – get loans I had no interest in paying back. All payday loans,
in your bank within the hour – 400 quid, bang, have it sir. And whatever I wanted it ended
up in my account at the end of that day.
It just got worse and worse. And… I didn’t know what I could do about it. And even if I
did win, I could have won any amount of money and I would have put it all right back in
which is ridiculous. If I won £2,000 that’s going straight back in. All oblivious to Stacey at
this point, she didn’t have a clue.
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Stacey
And then I had a knock on the door from our landlord with an eviction notice because he
hadn’t kept up with the rent payments. And it was shock, complete shock. I broke down
into tears, obviously I had the children with me in the house, I just completely broke down
into tears. So obviously I confronted him about that and that’s sort of when he told me that
the gambling had got – you know got really bad and he told me to the extent that it was.
And… I told him to go. It was pure hatred and anger towards him.
Steve
I mean it killed me moving out the family home, it really did, I never spent more than a day
or two from the kids and then to move out completely – I don’t know I think it was only
when I’d woken up the following day and I’ve gone god blimey, you know, I’m actually on me
own here.
Grace
Being told to leave the family home, for me I’d hope that would be a wakeup call – no warm
body beside you when you wake up, no tiny faces wanting their breakfasts. But not for
Steve. In fact his gambling problem just got worse.
Steve
I honestly thought it would be as simple as – I’m moving out, I’ll win a load of money, I’ll
come back in, we’re all playing happy families. Just sweep all this under the rug and this is
going to pay off all my debts, this is going to cover everything I need, it’s going to bring
myself a lovely holiday and all the rest of it.
And it got to the April and I got into work at 8 o’clock or about ten to eight as normal, I
actually did this at work on the work computer which, you know, I should have got me hand
slapped in the first place anyway… but I got paid my amount of money, I checked my bank
come 8 o’clock, that’s fine, and everything I had left I lost within the hour.
So I lost a full month’s wage in an hour on the day I got paid.
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And at that point that’s where you sit back and you think I’ve got a major issue here. I
thought I’m shoulder deep in this, it’s not knee deep anymore this is shoulder deep. I have
gambled all my money away.
I had a two bed house, lovely house, beautiful other half, two cracking kids and I just – I
chucked it all away.
Lily
…car, one car, car, car, car, what’s this – helicopter.
Stacey
Helicopter. Police one.
Lily
Look! Little!!
Stacey
A safari one, look.
Lily
Oh wow.
Grace
It’s October 2015. The good news is Steve hasn’t placed a bet since April, that’s five
months ago but he’s still sleeping on the sofa at his stepdad’s because Stacey, showing
terrific backbone, if you ask me, wants things done properly. If she’s taking a gamble on
Steve and letting him back in the house, she needs the odds to be good and this, she thinks,
will take three things. I’ll let her explain.
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Stacey
I’ve told him that before he can move back in, I want to be the one that’s in control of the
finances. So he’s got to sort of be okay with that, which I don’t think he is at the moment.
He doesn’t want that control taken away from him. But I’ve said I can’t – I can’t have it any
other way because we basically lost everything before and I can’t risk doing that again.
Stacey
Can you find a car that’s the same colour as mummy’s? That’s a little bit like mummy’s car,
the colour.
Lily
Open it.
Stacey
Put all the shopping in the boot.
Lily
And drive.
Stacey
And then drive. Is that how mummy drives?
Lily
Yeah.
Stacey
Another thing – he doesn’t drive at the moment, so a big thing is that I want him to be
driving because it will help massively. Because at the moment it all falls on me.
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Stacey
I don’t drive that fast do I?
Lily
Yeah.
Stacey
I do, I drive really fast do I?
Lily
No.
Stacey
No, we can’t drive really fast can we?
Lily
No, if you drive…
Stacey
What happens if we drive really fast?
Lily
Um, policeman tell us off.
Stacey
Policeman will tell us off, that’s right.
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Stacey
And for me I also – I would like him to seek some professional help for it, for his gambling,
that’s one thing he hasn’t done and it is a conversation that every time we have it it does get
a little bit touchy because he doesn’t feel that he needs that help. He feels that just by
completely not letting himself gamble anymore that that’s helping him.
Steve
Myself I’m not a sharer as such. I know they do a few things out there, I just – I haven’t
explored it, I haven’t looked into it, it’s probably me being a bit – I don’t know a bit of a prat
really but I sort of feel I’ve done okay since April. And Stacey’s obviously said give it a go,
you’ve got nothing to lose. But I don’t know, it might be something I explore.
Stacey
For me that’s the bottom line of it all, if he can finally accept what he’s done, finally accept it
and get some support and help with it, yeah there’s no reason as to why he can’t move back
in.
Laurence
Have you got a timescale in mind?
Stacey
We have sort of said that – well we’d love for him to move back in before Christmas, it
would be nice to end the year with a really nice family Christmas, him living back here again
and it just needs Steve to do his part now.
MUSIC
Stacey
What did we go and see?
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Lily
Fireworks!
Stacey
Fireworks?
Lily
Yeah…bang!
Grace
It’s November. Steve’s gone seven months without gambling. He’s keeping out of trouble
but I’m starting to see with a gambling habit, well, trouble finds you, it’s on every street, it’s
in every ad break, it’s on the lips of your mates in the pub.
Act. Football commentary
Grace
Today is the first round of the FA [Football Association] Cup. Now for betting shops this is
a big deal, there’s lots of hype and buzz, it’s like they’re saying get involved, have a flutter.
Act. Football commentary
Steve
It’s hard, well I’m finding it a bit hard today because me first stop would have originally been
bookies [betting shop] because FA Cup first round you’ve got small teams against big teams,
upsets galore. So I mean this morning it was a bit hard I had to try and preoccupy myself on
that because yeah any FA Cup day – straight down the bookies normally first thing. So it’s
put me a bit wonky this morning.
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Act. Footsteps, town
Grace
We’re in Basingstoke town centre.
Steve
Then you’ve got this one - my regular shop, when I come out on a Saturday, which is this
Betfred [betting shop], right on the corner, Paddy Power [betting shop] that’s just two up,
so we’ve just passed that as we walk higher up. Take a left you’ve got a Ladbroke’s [betting
shop], another Ladbroke’s by the bus station which is a stone’s throw down the street andthere’s a Coral [betting shop] just over the other side as well, another bookies.
Grace
Steve pops into his local boozer [pub] for a pint.
Act. Pub, TVs paying football
Steve
Hello Martin, how are you – good?
Grace
It’s the sort of place with TVs on every wall where you’re sure to see someone you go way
back with.
Steve
Everyone around here, especially all them regular fellas up front, they’ll have a pocketful of
betting slips, it just sort of comes as nature.
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I went out Wednesday night – Arsenal played Bayer Munich and got absolutely stuffed. And
one of the fellas I was with he had a big win come in at the end of it and you see the buzz he
got on it, so I think he pocketed well over 1200 quid, something like that. So won a lot of
money out of it and he had that buzz, the buzz that every person who places a bet wantswhen you win. And no it was bit hard that was on Wednesday. Then obviously again today
it sort of – it’s tickled me mind all the way through the week – FA Cup first round – and
again…
Laurence
Because this time last year…
Steve
I was deep.
You’ll see the football, at the end of this game, you’ll have Coral, Betfair, Ladbrokes – all
have an advert, it’ll say seven to one, nine to one, 10 to one, Paddy Power in store offer
now, such and such. Well Paddy Power’s there, Betfred’s there, Ladbrokes round the
corner, Coral across the way – if you do fancy it it’s right there on your doorstep.
It’s rammed down your throat. It is thrown right at you.
Laurence
What’s the closest do you think you’ve come to sort of…
Steve
What placing a bet? It was probably half time. Went out for a smoke out the front of
where we were on Wednesday night and Arsenal were three – nil down, I knew they
weren’t going to win but it was so ridiculous, like 50 to one for them to come back. And I
probably stood there for a good five minutes. But that did play with me, I was very, very
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close. There’s just nothing – I wouldn’t say to look forward to as such but I’ve got nothing
that gives me that bit of a rush.
Laurence
Have you discussed with Stacey how difficult you’ve been finding it lately?
Steve
Er, I haven’t yet no, she’s always said just give her a call or something like that but… yeah I
don’t know, it’s another burden I’m putting on somebody which I don’t really want to do,
I’ve done way more than enough of that already.
Grace
It’s like Steve’s one regular 26 year old man, up against a colossal multibillion pound heavily
hyped industry and he really fears that, despite his resolve, sooner or later he’ll slip. I
suppose the big difference now is Stacey has the full picture of what’s going on but if you
asked me right now with regards to his family Steve – he’s hedging his bets.
Steve
It would be good to move back in but I think we just need to make sure it is going to be fine
because it’s been a topsy turvy year. And I mean we’re going to disrupt our week to week
or day to day life when I move back in, it’s going to change again.
Grace
To me Steve sounds cautious. But Stacey, well she’s definitely more optimistic.
Stacey
By the end of November, it would be lovely that he moves back in, definitely and I think we
will do, I think we can, I think we will. But yeah there’s no reason why by the end of the
month it won’t all be done and he’ll be living back here.
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MUSIC
Grace
It’s December. It’s eight months since Steve last placed a bet but it’s still far from clear if
Steve will be back home by Christmas. Stacey and Steve have reached a rather awkward
but relatively safe deadlock. Maybe it’s one a lot of couples empathise with – they’re not
where they want to be, but it’s less painful than splitting up.
Steve
I’m going to win this.
Stacey
Is daddy going to win? Who do you reckon’s going to win?
Callum
Me but if I get some strikes.
Stacey
No I think I’m going to.
Grace
Stacey, Steve, Callum and Lily are off to the bowling alley.
Steve
Have you got your keys and that yeah?
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Act. Car door
Stacey
I’ve got keys yeah. Let daddy squeeze in.
Lily
I love going in the car.
Steve
You love going in the car?
Callum
Well dad we need to drive…
Lily
It’s so exciting, so exciting
Stacey
It’s so exciting?
Act. Music on car radio
Steve
I spy with my little eye something beginning with G – G. What can you see – what can you
see that begins with G?
Callum
Girl.
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Steve
No.
Lily
I win. I win.
Steve
You’re sort of missing the…. no it’s not grass.
Stacey
Good guess though Callum.
Lily
No your turn now Mummy.
Stacey
My turn?
So hopefully we can get a game.
Steve
Maybe we should have booked a lane.
Stacey
No I think it’s not too bad... Yeah I’ve left my purse at home, not on purpose I didn’t bring
a bag.
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Steve
Oh that old chestnut.
Stacey
No, no seriously, I didn’t bring a bag.
Steve
Alright there… do a family bowl, two adults, two children.
Grace
This is all quite bittersweet because the bowling alley is next door to the ice skating rink and
that’s where Steve first set eyes on Stacey all those years ago. In fact today is a pretty
important day.
Steve
We’ve been together 10 years today.
Stacey
Yeah 10 years. Too long!
Steve
Well I wouldn’t say that but…
Stacey
Ten years officially today, isn’t it.
Steve
Yeah you can call it official.
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Laurence
Remind me how old you were at that time?
Stacey
Sixteen and fifteen?
Steve
Yeah I was 16, I was at my first job. Stacey came down to visit me and spy on me for a few
weeks while I was working at the ice rink.
Stacey
I didn’t spy on you!
Steve
So she says. And one day I plucked up the courage to go and have a word.
Stacey
Oh you didn’t, you sent your friend! [laughs]
Steve
My friend took it upon himself to try and help me out and unfortunately I looked foolish in
the meantime. That’s when we got together to where we are now.
Stacey
Ten years later.
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Steve
With two kids and a lot of life experience I’d say.
Stacey
Yeah definitely, grown up a lot since then.
Steve
Yeah, yeah massively, yeah – two naïve teenagers to two - or at least one – head-screwed-
on adult and then me. That’s where we stand anyway.
Laurence
What do you think it was that drew you to each other? Stacey first.
Stacey
I dunno, you was always really confident and you always made me laugh and we just had fun
together didn’t we.
Steve
We did.
Stacey
We just had a good time together and I think we used to just talk and…
Steve
And that was good enough.
Stacey
You know we used to walk, it sounds so silly but we would just meet up and just go walk.
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Steve
Yeah I mean I think – my side of it – I dunno she was really patient, she helped me in several
bits. I had a bit of trouble with my old man, my dad, he cleared off before I arrived – I was
told he wanted to meet me and I decided I wasn’t going to go ahead. And I dunno she made
me feel comfortable with making that decision.
Act. Bowling alley
Stacey
Hurrah. [Laughs] That was a big heavy one!
Steve
You have all your fun time and then we sort of turned serious quite quick. I sort of…
Stacey
Yeah we did, we did, we moved in together quite quick, we was only – what – 18.
Laurence
Too quick?
Steve
Yes.
Stacey
Yeah, yeah it was. Yeah I think it was.
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Steve
But I mean shortly after that that’s when we found…
Stacey
That’s when Callum came along.
Steve
Yeah Callum was on his way.
Stacey
I took you out for a drink, didn’t I, to break the news a little bit easier.
Steve
Yeah to soften the blow.
Stacey
Soften the blow, yeah.
Steve
Yeah I think it was just – I kind of thought well that’s it my life’s over. And of course it
wasn’t or it’s not.
Act. Bowling alley
Steve
Right you need a strike on this one mate. Right size yourself up. It might take…. oh no it’s
veering off mate, veering off, don’t worry. Right come on then this will change the standings
if we can do this. Oh, oh, oh, oh, that’s it good lad, good lad.
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Laurence
You know it’s been a difficult year… 18 months.
Stacey and Steve
Eighteen months.
Stacey
Yeah 18 months, it’s been very difficult, it has been hasn’t it…
Laurence
You Stacey had some conditions for Steve to move back in.
Stacey
Yeah, yeah.
Laurence
And I suppose it would interesting to get from you both how far you feel you’ve moved
towards satisfying some of those.
Stacey
Yeah. Obviously I had – I had the physical conditions, if you like, as in driving – which still
hasn’t been done – that was the big thing.
Steve
I mean the driving – that is, an intensive course in February.
Stacey
That’s a must, it’s needed.
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Steve
Yeah it’s an intensive course in February, I’ve got a little pouch away or savings away for
that, so that will happen next year. I need it too just purely for work as well.
Stacey
Are you going to promise me that?
Steve
I have promised you that.
Stacey
Yeah?
Steve
Yeah I’ve emailed all these instructors.
Stacey
You know the other things that I really needed to make sure of is that I wasn’t kept in the
dark about finances anymore and I wanted to have some control over it which I believe I
have now. I feel like I have. I control, sort of the money – the going out for bills and things
like that now.
Steve
We’re still not meeting the counselling side of it.
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Stacey
No but it wasn’t even so much about professional counselling or anything like that. I just
needed you to talk more but you are talking to me about it and you still do, even now. I
know that you haven’t gambled for months and months now.
Steve
April.
Stacey
Yeah, you know, I know that.
Laurence
And tell me – the last time I came you were hoping that Steve would be moving back in by
Christmas.
Stacey
Yeah, I think it’s going to be after Christmas though now isn’t it, we’ve just been so busy.
Steve
I think it’s closer – I mean we’ve got the formalities for me to – well to come back…
Stacey
Yeah it’s like I was saying…
Steve
I’m not inviting myself in obviously, I mean I’m waiting to be welcomed.
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Stacey
Yeah, yeah.
Laurence
Is that the dynamic Steve – you’re “waiting to be welcomed”?
Stacey
[Laughs]
Steve
I would say so yeah. You know you can’t push your luck too far with women, that’s what
I’ve found in life. But no…
Stacey
Oh really!
Steve
I think we’ve – we can do it.
Stacey
Yeah.
Steve
So just waiting on her really isn’t it. So…
Stacey
[Laughs] I’m not hesitating with it I promise.
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Laurence
I just wondered though whether you are a little bit nervous about it though.
Stacey
I am, I am a little bit nervous yeah. It could all go wrong again, I think that’s what it is,
because at the moment we’ve got it set up as in if you were to, for whatever reason, start
gambling again and lose everything sort of your end it’s not going to affect me and the kids
because we’ve set ourselves up to be sort of independent really. You know, I have with the
kids.
Laurence
Have you ever discussed what the consequences would be if Steve were to gamble again?
Stacey
I think we both know.
Steve
We’d call it a day wouldn’t we.
Stacey
Yeah it would be – it would be it.
Steve
Yeah the amount of agro that it caused I can’t risk it.
Stacey
Yeah, no, I think we both know that if it was ever to happen again then I can’t go through it
all again.
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Steve
No, no exactly.
Stacey
I can’t and I can’t put the kids through it and everything else. So I think we both know but
we just hope it never comes to that.
Steve
No, no, no not at all. No you’re my lot ain’t you, so can’t lose me that easily. Sort of all or
nothing now isn’t it.
Stacey
More to lose than just money isn’t it.
Steve
Exactly, exactly, it’s not worth it.
Stacey
No.
Steve
So… no, we’re well understood.
Stacey
Yes definitely.
Steve
Well understood.
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Stacey
[Laughs]
Act. Bowling alley
Steve
Go on Lils, work your magic….
Stacey
Ready, steady….
Grace
So that’s where we leave them. What would you do if you were Stacey?
Stacey
Oh no….
Grace
I just hope that Stacey and Steve and Lily and Callum have many, many happy days just like
this in the future and that they carry on being just a normal everyday family… despite the
odds.
Stacey
Yay!! Let go – let go!
Steve
The only issue is – it’s a bit hard for me to say to Stace, or promise, that I’ll never gamble
again. That’s the hardest thing about it.