Mohammad Hossein Sobhani is a former member of the MKO Speakers IDUNIA AL ARAB!

THE FATE OF SADDAM'S MERCINARIES

AN INSIDER'S PREDICTIONMr Mohammad Hossein Sobhani is a former

member of the MKO now living in Germany wherehe writes and campaigns about the Mojahedinorganisation. In the Mojahedin he was a member ofthe Central Council and one of the executives of theorganization. Mr Sobhani first became involved inpolitical activity in 1977; After the Iranianrevolution of February 1979 he started full-timepolitical activities with the Mojahedin, serving in thestudent and administrative sections. He undertook avariety of responsibilities so that when theMojahedin's armed struggle against the newlyformed Islamic Republic began on the 3(fh June1980, he was appointed as commander of tworesistance units. One unit consisted of all theDistricts of Tehran and the other was embedded inthe Iran Air company and the Iranian air fleetmanufacturing company. Two years later he wasordered to leave Iran with his wife, Mrs AfsanehTaherian - currently a member of the Mojahedin'sLeadership CounciL They were first transferred toIranian Kurdistan using the Mojahedin'sunderground contacts at that time, and from there doubts and criticisms. Mr Sobhani also met withto Iraqi Kurdistan where they were able to join up Fahimeh Arvani, the Mojahedin's Secretarywith the Mojahedin's forces. General and with the late Mr Ebrahim Zakeri, head

Mr Sobhani was appointed an executive member of the NCR/'s Security Committee. Since none ofof the Intelligence Joint Committee and was also these meetings persuaded him away from hismade responsible for the Taba Tabii hospital in political and ideological questioning. Mr SobhaniBaghdad. Later, he became Commander-in-Chief of was transferred to a cell and placed in solitarySecurity at Ashraf camp, and Commander of one of confinement in Ashraf camp where he stayed fromthe Security Brigades which protect Mr and Mrs September 1980 until January 1999. At this pointRajavi. The latest position he enjoyed in the Mr Massoud Rajavi handed him to SaddamMojahedin organisation was as an executive Hussein's regime and he was imprisoned in themember of the Intelligence Committee. Iraqi Security Services' prison before being

However, in 1992, Mr Sobhani began to transferred to Abu Ghoraib prison in Baghdad. Aexperience doubts about the Mojahedin's policies prisoner for nine years simply for expressingand strategy to which he gave voice. Mr Massoud criticism of the organisation, Mr SobhaniRajavi, leader of the Mojahedin, summoned Mr experienced severe physical and mental tortures forSobhani to two extensive meetings lasting several which he hopes one day those responsi~le will behours in an attempt to get him to put aside his held to account

Question: You mentioned explain the relations of the the past. Essentially the relationsthat you travelled to Iraq Mojahedin with the former between the Mojahedin organizationfrom Iran and that you were regime of Iraq and with and Saddam Hussein's regime go backappointed as an executive Saddam Hussein and how to before the Iranian revolution inmember of the Mojahedin in they started. 1979. After the revolution, theIraq before being imprisoned relations between the Mojahedin andfor your differences with the Mr Sobhani: To answer this the Baath Party of Iraq continued andorganization. Could you question correctly I need to go back to the Mojahedin fundamentally analysed

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the Iraqi regime and Saddam Husseinas a people's force and asrevolutionary. After the outbreak ofwar between Iran and Iraq in 1980, .they could no longer afford to betransparent about their relations withIraq. However, as I will explain, therelations between the Mojahedin andIraq were deepened after this point.But how?

After the 1979 revolution, theMojahedin choose a mistakentactic for their struggle, whichwas to directly oppose theIslamic Republic regime. TheMojahedin's radicalisation of thesocial and political atmosphereafter the revolution - with the A few months before the 30th June relations with Iraq as a country whichhelp of elements of the new 1981, Dr Abol Hassan Bani Sadr, the was at war with Iran was against theregime of the Islamic Republic - first President of post revolutionary best national interests of Iran. In theeventually led to the strategy of Iran, formed a political coalition with end it was the Mojahedin' s relationsarmed struggle against the the Mojahedin and immediately after with Iraq which brought about theregime. Even those many the start of the armed struggle Dr Bani separation of Dr Bani Sadr, the KDP,organisations and political Sadr and Mr Rajavi escaped to Paris Dr Khanbaba Tehrani, Dr Pakdamanparties which believed only in together in an Air Force jet leaving the and others from the NCRI. From thispeaceful, unarmed political and members and supporters of the time, the Mojahedin's essentiallysocial struggle against the Mojahedin under the blade of the treacherous relations with the IraqiIslamic Republic became the Islamic Republic regime. And this is regime and with Saddam Husseinvictims of the fire of the military exactly what Mr Rajavi is doing now personally were made open andand police atmosphere created when, twenty years later the coalition official.by the forces have attacked Iraq, he has left

Mojahedin after the start of their the members and the body of the Question: Didn't Mrarmed struggle in 30 June 1981. And Mojahedin in the political and military Rajavi or the Mojahedin seein this atmosphere, the executions of quicksand of Iraq, sending his wife the negative points in thesemembers and supporters of various and trusted executives to Europe, and relations with Iraq just as Drpolitical organisations by the regime finding a safe haven for himself to Bani Sadr and the others sawon one side, and the assassination of hide. them. The question arises asIslamic Republic regime officials and I digress from the subject, so to to why the Mojahedin startedeven, wittingly or unwittingly, return to the question, Dr Bani Sadr, and then continued with suchordinary citizens by the Mojahedin on the Mojahedin and the Kurdish a relation with Iraq andthe other side, became the primary Democratic Party of Iran (KDP), along Saddam Hussein.agenda of the organization. The with independent personalities like DrIslamic Republic regime in return used Khanbaba Tehrani, Dr Momken, Dr Mr Sobhani: Yes it is an interestingthe Mojahedin's strategy of armed Pakdaman and Dr Matine Daftary, put question. The analysis which Mrstruggle as an excuse to suppress all together the National Council of Rajavi and the Mojahedin held of thefreedom seekers. After the 30th June Resistance of Iran (NCRI). However, political, social and military tissue and1981 the Mojahedin performed many this Council from the start was power of the Islamic Republic of Iranterrorist operations, including bombing plagued by the extreme hegemony and regime from the start was not correctthe Islamic Republic Party's dictatorship imposed by Mr Rajavi and or realistic. It was not based on theheadquarters and the office of Prime his Mojahedin. It very quickly lost any social realities surrounding them, butMinister Rajai in 1981. In fact it would sense of unity and in particular after was a completely imaginary analysis.appear that the armed and terrorist the meeting between Mr Massoud After the armed struggle began inoperations carried out by the Rajavi and Mr Tariq Aziz, the Iraqi 1981, the Mojahedin, based on thisMojahedin at that time were a gift Deputy Prime Minister in 1983. That analysis, claimed that the downfall offrom the sky to the Islamic Republic meeting was held without any the regime would occur very rapidly.because this allowed the regime to consultation with or involvement by In reality, not only did the regime notsuppress the just and democratic any of the NCRI members, and it was fall but instead many of the veterandemands of everybody under the severely criticised by the other members of the Mojahedin and otherumbrella of fighting terrorism and the members of the Council. Dr Bani Sadr political opposition forces were eitherMojahedin organization. clearly and openly stressed that any arrested or killed in armed conflicts.

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Mr Rajavi and the in the region, or inMojahedin were the case of anyincreasingly placed disagreemeptto criticise between Iran and Iraqthemselves and their about territory, or ifpolitical, military Mr Rajavi in any wayand strategic failed to obey Mrprogrammes and to i, Saddam Hussein'sexplain to the i' orders fully then nopeople, the members doubt these filmsand the executives of the Mojahedin secretly filmed meetings would be exposed or used to extort co-exactly why the Islamic Republic between Mr Rajavi and Iraqi operation from Mr Rajavi and get himdidn't fall and why the anned struggle officials. Would you please to correct his political directiondid not bear any fruit except the arrest comment about that. whether over land claims or Iraq'sand deaths of members and executives regional policies. '

of the organisation. In spite of this Mr Sobhani: Yes, I have seen the I should mention something that Iapparent failure, Mr Rajavi in order to AI Jazeera film. Clearly you can see in distinctly remember in the Mojahedinescape accountability and this film the security, financial and from that time. Mr Rajavi, in hisresponsibility as to why the regime logistical co-operation between Mr meetings with the Mojahedin' s Centralhadn't fallen, saw no other way open Rajavi and Mr Saddam Hussein. In my Council and also in the open meetings,to him but to place more and more view this co-operation was of a much would always reject the accusations ofreliance on his strategy of anned vaster scope than was reve;aled in this dependence on Saddam Hussein'sstruggle. film. Even so, in the film we clearly regime. He would turn and gesture to

His major problem was that the saw General Jalil Habush, former head ~e map behind him on the stage, andMojahedin forces inside Iran had been of Iraq's Security Services, he would say that 'the geographic areaseverely depleted and damaged to the mentioning the gift of twenty-five and overall resources of Iran are manypoint that in practice there was no Chieftan tanks and ten annoured times greater than those of Iraq. How,organisational force left in Iran to be Scorpions which were to be given to then would it be possible for Iran toorganised. Therefore, to continue the Mojahedin under Mr Rajavi's become dependent on Iraq?' And heterrorist operations in Iran, Mr Rajavi command. And that Mr Rajavi, with a used to continue by stating that 'it isjudged that his best choice was under nod of his head and saying 'yes' in always the smaller countries whichthe rule of a dictator like Saddam Arabic, was thanking his host for the become dependent on larger ones. ItHussein. Because their analysis of the gift. In practice the Iraqi' officials are would therefore not be possible forrapid downfall of the Islamic Republic telling Mr Rajavi about alternative Iran to ever become dependent onwas not materializing and since this ways of carrying out anned operations Iraq. . .' And in this way he wouldanalysis was not coming true, they from other countries as well as from refute the allegations.needed to find a way out of their Iraq. This completely contradictsdeadlock and crisis. They were everything Mr Rajavi has ever said in Question: Mr Sobhani, canlooking for a new way and this new his vast propaganda aimed at public you explain a little about theway was nothing less than moving to opinion, political organisations and current position of theIraq. The Mojahedin analysis in this parties, in which he always claimed Mojahedin forces in Iraq. Therespect was that the regime of Saddam that the Mojahedin was a completely Iraqi Governing Council hasHussein would be very quickly independent political organisation in placed a deadline for thevictorious in its war with Iran, leaving Iraq and that all the heavy annaments expulsion of Mojahedinthe way open for Mr Rajavi and the had either been captured from the members from Iraq. WhatMojahedin to seize power in Iran. It Islamic Republic or had been bought are your thoughts on that,was on this basis that they accepted with Mojahedin money. One and what do you think will bethe transfer to Iraq and with this move, interesting point about this film was their fate.to gain the highest levels of security, that Mr Rajavi's meeupg with Securitymilitary, logistical and financial co- officials and high ~ng officers of Mr Sobhani: Above all else 1operation with Saddam Hussein's the Estekhbarat and Mokhaberat of should emphasise that the currentregime. In reality by accepting this the Iraq had been secretly filmed by Iraq's position of the Mojahedin forces inMojahedin found itself in political, Mokhaberat. It is natural to question Iraq is the direct result of thestrategic and moral freefall. the Iraqi Intelligence Service's erroneous and unreal strategy of armed

motivation for this and to assume that struggle and the presence in IraqiQuestion: You mentioned it was pre-planned. On the assumption territory which they adopted. The

the co-operation between the that Mr Rajavi and the Mojahedin situation did not arise in one day.Mojahedin and the regime of were after seizing power in Iran after Many members and executives of theSaddam Hussein in various an Iraqi victory in the war, if Mr organisation predicted this outcomefields. Just recently AI Rajavi at any time wanted to stand from many years ago and discussed itJazeera network broadcast against Mr Saddam Hussein's policies within the organisation. People like

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this paid the price of their criticisms from Iraq. Jordan also has announced this means they are able to gather theand doubts with years of imprisonment its refusal to grant asylum to the support of public opinion in Europein solitary confinement in the members of the Mojahedin from Iraq. and the United States and to presentMojahedin's bases. This is what To my mind, the future of the the Mojahedin as a supporter of non-happened to me as one of the Mojahedin and the possible countries violent, unarmed political and socialexecutives of the Mojahedin. For the which would accept the members has a struggle. The aim is to remove thereasons I just outlined and because I direct relation to American policy in name of the Mojahedin from the list ofalways insisted on my personal the region and their discreet dialogue terrorist entities of these countries. Butpolitical and strategic points of view, I and relations with the Islamic the Mojahedin still believe in armedspent years in solitary confinement Republic of Iran. But what is certain in activities and terrorism to achieveduring which I was denied seeing my regard to the views of the IGC is that power. It is only that the time is q,otwife or daughter. When my daughter' either way, the Mojahedin cannot right for them to operate in that way.was removed to Europe, they refused remain in Iraq.to give me the letters and photographs Question: In your discussionwhich she and my family sent to me. Question: What do you you said that the NationalTo the extent that when I finally came believe the Mojahedin's Council of Resistance of Iranto Germany after twelve years, my programme and strategy is is synonymous with thedaughter and I barely recognised one for the future, whether in Mojahedin. But the NCRIanother. Europe or elsewhere. doesn't have any armed or

Clearly the current situation of the military activities. What isMojahedin's forces in Iraq is a direct Mr Sobhani: The Mojahedin will your reasoning behind thisresult of Mr Rajavi ' s mistaken strategy above all try not to be held to account claim.

of armed struggle and the Mojahedin for its past and the strategic mistakes itorganization's presence in Iraq and made. For example it will avoid the Mr Sobhani: Of course, the NCRItying the political fate of his question as to who is responsible for has never openly had any militaryorganization to the fate of Saddam the past twenty years of bloodshed and activities. But over 95% of theHussein. who is responsible for choosing armed members of this Council are from the

But about the fate of members and struggle as a strategy. As a first step, members of the Liberation Army inforces in Iraq and the deadline given the Mojahedin, like all other political Iraq and the Mojahedin, and this is notby the Iraqi Governing Council. parties and democratic or semi- a secret. The other 5% are also fromPrimarily we must separate the democratic governments should accept the members and supporters of theaccountability of members and the the mistakes it made in the past and Mojahedin who for one reason orbody of the Mojahedin, including the admit its treachery. But I personally another have separated from themid-ranking executives from that of think that the Mojahedin is nothing organization and live in Europe or thethe organization's leadership. These more than a religious cult. The United States. It is understood that anypeople should certainly be allowed to Mojahedin' s suicide operations over organization or party or governmentchoose the place they wish to live in the past two decades and also the distributes its work inside itself andwithout any interference by the recent self-immolations of members that this distribution of work andMojahedin organisation. This must be on the direct orders of the leadership activities doesn't mean that the variousan individual choice made privately to oppose the arrest of Maryam Rajavi sections which perform it haveand under the auspices of the United (who was detained by French law different aims from the main body. InNations. According to Paul Bremmer, agencies last year) are obvious the same way, Mr Rajavi has dividedthe Americans are willing to send the characteristics of a religious cult. In the work of the Mojahedin into that ofMojahedin members to third countries. the organizational relations inside the the Liberation Army which carries outBut the Mojahedin themselves are Mojahedin, cult behaviour is seen in his military and terrorist operationstrying to delay the timetable the utmost dependence upon and and that of the NCRI which preparesannounced by the IGC and are trying worship of the leader. This is an on- the political bed for such operations.to stay in Iraq and Jordan. They are going thing. In a religious cult you do Of course as I have emphasised,trying everything possible so that these not find any system or process from 95% of the members of the NCRI arethird countries are chosen in the within which would allow the leader to from the Liberation Army and whoEuropean Union. Which, considering be criticised or replaced. carry out these terrorist operations.that the Mojahedin organisation has What do I see as their preferred You are probably aware that the NCRIbeen designated as a terrorist entity by solution? I think that the Mojahedin is also on the American list of terroristthe European Union and considering will use the name of the NCRI and entities. The point which I shouldalso the deep political and economical other names to try to continue its stress here is that the current NCRI hasrelations of the Islamic Republic of radical armed and terrorist activities no resemblance whatsoever to theIran with these countries, would not be even in Europe and other countries. original NCRI which was founded ina likely scenario. Already Germany For this reason the organization, using 1981 by Dr Bani Sadr, the KDP,and Austria have publicly rejected the Mrs Maryam Rajavi as its mouthpiece, Mojahedin and other respectedrumOuTs of a possible transfer of has announced support for a political personalities.Mojahedin personnel to their countries referendum over leadership in Iran. By * * *

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