taking care of business: getting the jobs you want at the ... · 2 pdn’ s taking care of business...

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2 My First Advertising JobFour photographers tell the story of how they each landed their first major commercial shoot—and managed to keep the client happy.

5 Make the Most of Pre-ProductionCalls and MeetingsA step-by-step guide on how to handle conversations with creatives and clients from the people who know: reps, producers and art buyers.

8 Bidding on an All-Media Library ShootWe use an art buyer’s advertising assignment in order to examine bids from three different reps to find out what to look for when it comes to estimates.

13 The Estimate Doctor: Improvising from a Vague Brief and Unspecified BudgetA real-life case study of a photographer who parlayed an ambiguous request from a potential client into $10,000 worth of additional work.

15 The Estimate Doctor: Reeling in a Novice ClientOverestimating a job can scare a small business owner away; avoid this mistake by following these smart tips.

17 The Estimate Doctor: A Rush Job, Then A Call for Additional Usage RightsPhotographer and photo consultant John Harrington explains why “soft numbers” are the way to go when a client wants additional licensing rights.

18 The Estimate Doctor: Negotiating with a Hard BargainerFind out what leverage a photographer has when a client wants to get the price of an estimate down.

20 Clients to Photographers: We Want More An inside look at how reps advise their photographers regarding clients’ requests for more usage, license length and motion content.

23 10 Questions to Ask Before You Bid on an Ad AssignmentBring up these important points to ensure your estimatecovers all the bases.

PHOTO DISTRICT NEWS www.pdnonline.com News, techniques and inspiration for the photo professional

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Taking Care of Business: Getting the Jobs You Want at the Fees You Deserve

Real-world tips for negotiating fees with clients large and small, bidding,estimating and producing successful commerical assignments.

© 2012 NIELSEN BUSINESS MEDIA

Business Management Package.r1.qxp:Layout 1 12/8/11 10:46 AM

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PDN’s Taking Care of Business Package

Landing your first major commission can be a big stepin the career of a photographer. It means a client seessomething compelling in your work, and believes youcan apply the same look to a commercial job. As the sto-ries of these four photographers indicate, there is noformula for getting that first gig. Some started by do-ing smaller jobs for the same client and worked theirway up by actively showing new work; others sought outwork from new clients who were appropriate to theirskills and interests.

As these photographers demonstrate, however, theprocess of convincing the client you can handle an assign-ment isn’t over once you’ve landed the job. Chances arethey are going to watch you closely until they see that youare delivering what they want. Recognizing what it takesto fulfill a client’s needs, being able to direct models, andcarrying yourself with confidence can make or break a job.Believing in your ability to make a great image on loca-tion when things aren’t going your way and instilling thatbelief in the client can also be key.

EMILIANO GRANADO FOR CONVERSEBefore he became a photographer, Emiliano Granadoworked as an account executive at an ad agency, so whenhe scored his first major advertising job shooting thespring 2011 campaign for Converse’s “sport authentics” lineof footwear, he had already been on a set and knew howart buyers and creatives worked. It was the first time, how-ever, that his reputation and his talent had been put onthe line during a big-budget shoot.

The campaign for the shoe line was aimed at theteenage market. The brief described a loose narrative of aday in the life of a group of high school kids. Over thecourse of two days in Austin, Texas, Granado shot a groupof 40 teens at a high school, a bonfire and a party. The ba-sic arc of the story was that the teens celebrated at schoolas their team won the big football game, then at a bon-fire and continued the party at someone’s house.

Until this assignment, Granado had shot mostly edito-rial and documentary work. Many of his images depictedyoung people and their pursuits—like photo bloggers inArgentina and American spring breakers. In each of thosescenarios Granado was able to go into a situation, findwhat was interesting and capture the energy of his youngsubjects. Converse, which handles their creative produc-tions in-house, asked him to reproduce that youthful en-ergy for their shoot.

Granado was put up for the campaign by his former rep,Jessica Oldham, who took a job as a producer at Converse

after she had a baby and closed her agency. Though Old-ham put his name in, Granado still had to compete withanother photographer to convince the art director that hecould handle the shoot.

“I think they were interested in me because I could han-dle a group of teens,” Granado relates. “They wanted some-body who had their foot firmly planted in documentary,or working at that speed of documentary, but with somesort of commercial precision.”

Granado says there were no storyboards or shot lists.Instead, the production team, which included an outsideproducer hired by Converse, created scenarios for Grana-do to photograph. “I was just documenting what was hap-pening,” Granado says.

However, being able to direct the group of teens waskey. “I can just be that guy that turns it on and is the loud-est, craziest dude on set so that everyone can feel com-fortable screaming,” Granado says. There were sixprincipal subjects who were in all of the shots—the oth-er kids were used as extras—and to help the creatives castthe principals Granado was asked to talk to all of the kidsand weigh in on which ones were the most interesting,directable and energetic.

The most challenging part of the job, Granado says, wasmaking sure his clients were happy with the shots he wasgetting, especially because there was no specific shot list.“Thinking about two or three different people’s opinionson what needed to be shot when nothing has been story-boarded” was stressful, Granado says. As he worked hewould give memory cards to the digital assistant so theclients could review the take. Though they did direct a fewspecific things they wanted, they mostly let Granado workand were happy with the results.

Says Granado, “It probably would have been more diffi-cult if I knew exactly what I had to shoot versus just show-ing up, trusting my instincts and handling it.”

DOVE SHORE FOR BILLABONGFashion, music and celebrity photographer Dove Shorefirst began working for Billabong while assisting BrianBowen Smith. Smith was shooting catalogues and adver-tising for the surf/lifestyle clothing brand when he sug-gested Shore take over the catalogue work, which is shotin-studio.

Shore parlayed that catalogue work into small ad jobsfor other fashion brands. Then he would send those adsto the art director at Billabong so he would be top of mindshould an ad job come up. Advertising work for Billabongis a big deal, Shore says. The company puts their ads in

My First Advertising JobFour photographers discuss how they landed their first major commercialassignments, delivered a successful shoot for their client and what they learned fromit all. By Conor Risch


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high-profile magazines, which means great exposure thatcan lead to further ad work for other brands. Shore alsolikes that the way Billabong uses their images. Their adsare well designed, so when “they put their logo on yourphoto it seems to enhance it,” he says.

One season Billabong licensed some of Shore’s cata-logue images for their ads, and the following season, whenit came time to shoot the 2010 swim advertising, Shore fi-nally got the nod.

Of course, when Shore woke up the morning of theshoot, a layer of clouds was threatening to ruin the pro-duction, which was set for a Southern California beach lo-cation. “It was the grayest day,” he remembers. Shorebriefly considered bringing lights to try and “create thesun,” but decided against it because he wasn’t used toworking with a big lighting setup. “One of my philoso-phies is, on a big shoot, not to try anything that I haven’tdone before and put myself in hot water.”

Despite the setback Shore stayed positive, had confi-dence in his ability to produce something good, and founda way to compose the images against the rocks andagainst the water, making the gray sky a non-factor. Forthe first couple of the eight shots he needed to get, theart director looked over his shoulder, but once he saw whatShore was getting he “stood back and let me do my thing,”Shore recalls.

The biggest lesson he learned on the shoot was to“roll with the punches.” “Not everything is going to goyour way,” he says. Finding a way to use the elements,and to keep the morale and energy of the clients andthe models high was what made the shoot a success. “Alot of jobs are on location and you don’t have a chanceto shoot it again.”

NOAH ABRAMS FOR TIMBERLANDThere was nothing typical about the way Noah Abramslanded an advertising campaign for outdoor clothingand footwear brand Timberland. He first worked forMike Kelley, the executive VP of marketing for Phillips-Van Heusen, which licenses the Timberland brand, doc-umenting the Indianapolis 500. (IZOD, anotherPhilips-Van Heusen brand, sponsors the IndyCar race se-ries.) He got the Indy job based on his work document-ing concerts and music festivals.

After shooting another IndyCar race in Toronto, Abramswas out with Kelley and a group of people for dinner whenhe pulled out his iPhone to show off an image he’d recent-ly taken at the Bonnaroo Music Festival. Without Abramsrealizing it, Kelley, whom Abrams says is a big music fan,flipped through Abrams’s edit from Bonnaroo and his oth-er portfolios.

“He puts my phone down, looks at me and says, ‘You’reshooting Timberland,’” Abrams recalls. “He related to theenergy in the music pictures, he wanted that authentici-ty and realness that I think comes across.” During a sub-sequent conversation Abrams came to understand thatthe look of the Timberland ads had become too staged. Itwas his job to add an authenticity to the ads.

Abrams credits the creative director and art director for

the campaign with creating an ideal situation in which todo just that. The shoot, which took place over two days inNew Hampshire, involved outdoor activities like rockclimbing, and the models that were recruited were guyswho were legitimately into the activities they’d be doingfor the camera. Abrams was asked to participate in cast-ing, interact with the models and have his say as to whichones might be good to work with.

On the second day of the shoot (day one had beenrained out), Abrams decided to ride with the models fromthe hotel to the location. He’d never worked with modelsbefore, so he wasn’t sure if what he was doing was appro-priate. “I just said, ‘Don’t be models. Go out and have funand I’ll get what I need. I need this to be authentic and tobe real.’” Abrams says the models responded, and that ef-fort to collaborate with them and involve them in whathe was trying to do came through in the images.

The flow of the shoot was also important, he relates. “Itwas a big job, but I think the creative director and art di-rector knew if they over-directed me then they weren’t go-ing to get what they wanted.”

Since then Abrams has been on shoots where theclients were a bit more heavy handed. “Having to stop [tocheck in constantly] screws up the dynamic between thephotographer and subject,” Abrams notes. “If I learnedanything [on the Timberland job] it’s that it was a successbecause we were able to keep that rhythm going and keepthat energy going.”

MATT SLABY FOR THE BUREAU OF LANDMANAGEMENTMatt Slaby first learned that the U.S. Bureau of Land Man-agement (BLM) hired photographers to shoot forest fireswhile he was fighting fires himself. Slaby worked for theForest Service for seven years before he became a photog-rapher, and he noticed that they brought in photogra-phers—sometimes as many as two or three if the fire waslarge—to shoot images that are used for education pro-grams, internal training, structure loss analysis, commu-nications and historical records.

While the work requires that the photographer shooteditorially in one sense, the photographs, Slaby says, haveto tell a different story than the one an editorial clientmight be after. “You take the mindset of editorial: You aretrying to figure out where everything is, be educatedabout where you are and what you’re looking at, thinkabout where the fire is going to go. What you’re focusing[the camera] on is different. The story that’s being told isnot the wall of fire up the mountainside.”

The photographs have to communicate very specificthings, Slaby notes. Among them are the best practices forpeople who live in wooded areas. There are several thingsone can do in building and maintaining a house in thewoods that will increase the chances that a fire will passaround it without damaging it, and detailed images ofhouses that burned versus those that did not are usefulin convincing homeowners that they should prepare forthe inevitable.

Slaby calls bidding for the work “the most complicat-


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ed thing I’ve done so far” as a photographer. The gov-ernment uses a tiered system that involves—youguessed it—a fair amount of paperwork. There is a largedossier of forms one must fill out simply to get into thegovernment’s contracting system, and Slaby also had toobtain a DUNS number, a nine-digit identification codethat allows the government to track who you are, whatyou do and what they pay you.

Once photographers make sure that they have the cor-rect DUNS number for the type of work they want to do(a government agency cannot hire a photographer with apublic relations DUNS number if they are assigning adver-tising work), they have to submit a bid proposal, which in-cludes everything from their fee to their level of safetytraining to the type of equipment they use, to the Nation-al Interagency Fire Center in Boise, Idaho.

It’s a competitive bidding process, Slaby says, and a con-fluence of factors, including your budget and fee, fire ex-perience and what you propose to bring to the job, canfactor into whether the BLM decides to award you a five-year bid agreement. Once awarded, the bid agreementmeans that anytime a fire comes up, the photographerand the agency already have an agreed-upon basis fortheir contract. Somewhat ironically, the last stage of theprocess of securing the bid agreement is submitting aportfolio of your work.

Slaby says that his fire knowledge means that when heshows up to photograph a fire, he’s able to check in withthe fire manager and go to work without an escort likeother photographers with little fire experience mightneed. The freedom allows him to explore and shoot as helikes, which means he can also make images for himself.Slaby says that part of his interest in putting in for thejob was to go back and photograph fires without havingto actually fight them. “I want to photograph and showwhat that feels like,” he says.

Another advantage is that, once you are a member ofthe team of photographers who work for the BLM, thework is steady. “There is no shortage of fires,” Slaby notes.During the peak season from May to October there aregenerally fires throughout the west. “You’re not gamblingon if something will pan out or not.” Slaby adds that thereare a number of other jobs for photographers within thefederal contracting system.


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For photographers trying to land advertising assignments,every contact with an ad agency is important. From the cre-ative call to the pre-estimate call to the final pre-pro meet-ing, asking the right questions and providing the right inputcan establish the client’s trust in your skills and provide youwith the information you need for a successful bid and asmooth production. Here, art buyers, reps and producers ex-plain the dos and don’ts of handling every meeting.

THE CREATIVE CALL: IT’S A JOB INTERVIEWJOHN SHARPE, REP, SHARPE & ASSOCIATES:The creative call is one of the most important parts of thebidding process. That call is really about the agency gettinga feel for the photographer’s personality, seeing how he orshe sees executing the creative and for making sure every-one's expectations are in sync prior to developing a budget.

There’s a listening portion: Creatives speak first and ex-press what they want to achieve. But there’s also respond-ing so you show that you not only have a good grasp ofwhat the agency’s and the client’s priorities are, but alsothat you’ll bring something to the party. That’s hard to doin a short amount of time.

It’s about salesmanship, which is driven by good com-munication. With some photographers, we [as reps] haveto ask them questions to get them to speak. If photogra-phers have made a list of the things that they need knowto shoot a job, they should at a minimum be able to say,“Let’s talk about this,” using the list as a cheat sheet andas a way to stimulate the conversation.

I don’t think it’s essential to understand the marketingstrategy behind a campaign. Photographers who can wraptheir brains around that have an advantage. But it’s moreabout understanding the creatives’ vision for the execu-tion than the strategy behind it.

LIZ MILLER-GERSHFELD, VP, SENIOR ART PRODUCER,ENERGY BBDO:I think the best thing a photographer can do during thecreative call is to [listen to] what the creatives are think-ing. There will be a lot of clues in there regarding execu-tion, tone and the feeling we are going for. We tend tocommunicate the things that are important to the clientas well. The more the photographer can facilitate a con-versation that elicits what the [art director and client]wants, the more likely we are to leave the call saying,“What a great conversation.”

If a photographer has been thinking about the execu-tion, we want to hear it. But it’s better that they keep itto themselves if, from what they’ve heard, they know the

ideas won’t make sense. I’ve had photographers who juststarted talking a lot. At the end the [art director] said, “Iliked all their thinking but it’s obvious that we are goingin a different direction.”

It’s a bit of a job interview, so you may want to go intoit with some questions, but good listening skills allow youto refine your questions.

A photographer who isn’t super articulate but under-stands what we’re after can say, “There’s an image in myportfolio that shows what I’m thinking of,” [to show] thathe or she understands what we’re going for. We all speaka visual language

KAT DALAGER, MANAGER OF PRINT PRODUCTION,CAMPBELL MITHUN:[Photographers should] ask for a creative brief, if there is one.Do you want me to shoot your vision? Do you want my in-put? Do you want a lot of input in the casting? Those can bemake-or-break questions. [Depending upon the job], we maywant someone who is totally involved in process, or not.

SHERRIE ALLAN, FREELANCE ART BUYER/PRODUCER:The photographer who wins the project is usually a peo-ple person. He or she should be able to convey self-assuredness and technical expertise. I’ve met with somephotographers who come to the meeting with examplesof their past work that we can discuss and compare to theproject at hand. Sometimes they come in with test shotstaken specifically for the project. This is always a tellingsign that this photographer is really enthusiastic aboutour project, and is willing to go beyond expectations.

HOW NOT TO HANDLE THE CREATIVE CALLSHARPE: One thing about these calls: It’s the wrong time to bringup the business side [questions], like who else is up forthe bid, or what the budget is. The art buyer doesn’t wantthe [art director] and the [creative director] involved inthose discussions.

DALAGER:[Some photographers] ask questions that indicate theyhaven’t given the layout any thought or attention: For ex-ample, who is the job for? And other questions that areanswered in the job specs. It’s my first cue that they’re notgoing to be focusing on my job. Do a little bit of home-work. At least know what has been shot for that client be-fore. Go on their Web site, see what they did last year.

How to Make the Most of Pre-Production Calls and MeetingsSuccessful contact with ad agencies and clients can land you an assignment, and guarantee a smooth production.


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MILLER-GERSHFELD:I love it when photographers bring in a producer for that[creative] call. It demonstrates a level of seriousness aboutsolving the problems the shoot presents. But in the begin-ning they [the producer] should just [listen] and be opento the creatives’ vision and let it bloom. Present us [later]with a menu that says: This is what can happen, these arethings we can give up.

EMILY VICKERS, MASON VICKERS PRODUCTIONS:Most experienced reps/photogs will have the producer onthe [creative] call—even as a fly on the wall—because thisis the most expedient, accurate way for the producer tolearn first-hand what the [art director] and photog arethinking, and what questions need answers before delving into the numbers. Unless it’s established up frontthat we can delve into production issues, we prefer to staylow key or silent, then follow up ASAP with the art buyer directly.

WHEN THERE IS NO CREATIVE CALLMILLER-GERSHFELD: If it’s a job the agency cares about, and there’s some com-plexity to the job, but the art director can’t make the call,[that means] the photographer is not seriously being con-sidered. The art director should always be on the call.

THE PRE-ESTIMATE [OR PRE-BID] CALLVICKERS:This call is more nuts and bolts, production and budgetoriented [than the creative call]. Questions we ask dependentirely on the creative content of the layouts, and rangefrom the most obvious (Is the final image expected to bein camera, a composite constructed in post or completelyCGI?) to issues specific to each proposed motif (locationor studio set build; casting details; usage rights; styling;propping; etc.) to who will be on-set and whether produc-tion will be covering agency travel and per-diem costs.

STEVEN CURRIE, FREELANCE PRODUCER:Besides the obvious—how many shots, how many days,how much talent, where to shoot, if they know or if theywant us to research it—the most important question isabout usage. It helps the rep or photographer determinefee structure and the producer negotiate talent fees,which can be two of the largest line items in a budget.

PREPARING THE ESTIMATESTEVEN CURRIE: Any idea that helps save money is always the most valu-able. On the latest job I did, retouching saved time andmoney on props, which gave the photographer I was bid-ding with a big advantage over competitors.

I recently finished a three-shot campaign for Honda Mo-torcycles [with] Ebo Fraterman. The two most importantthings for the client was that the bike look great and therider look real. We locked the bike in a leaned position andshot it in pieces [sections] for composition later. That waywe could concentrate on lighting the bike without [the rid-

er] having to make hundreds of passes [on the bike].

MILLER-GERSHFELD: Before you leave an option off the estimate, it’s worth hav-ing a conversation with the art buyer to say, “You can havetwo things, not three. Which ones are you willing to giveup?” Maybe we asked for six background extras, a motor-cycle and a dog, and we wanted an additional location.Which of those can we give up?

I think it’s really smart to put extra items as separate lineitems in the estimate. That allows the client to see it and ifthey love it, they may come up with the budget for it.

HEATHER ELDER, REP, HEATHER ELDER REPRESENTS:For one client, I broke the shot list down into this matrixof location, number of people in the shot, wardrobe, propsneeded and number of days. That was hugely helpful be-cause [the client] could then get her head around it and Icould be like, “We have 50 talent here and look how muchyour talent fees are,” and then she could go back to thematrix and she could play around with it.

BEV ADLER, FREELANCE ART PRODUCER:I once saw a situation where the photographer said, “Icould save you money by shooting it a day shorter thaneverybody else.” The client wanted five shots, and two pho-tographers estimated the shoot for two days, while thethird one estimated it for one day. Ultimately the clientdidn’t want to take that risk [of shooting five shots in oneday], but the photographer didn't want to add that extraday. Because of the photographer’s style of shooting, itwould have made the cost prohibitive.

I’d rather [photographers] pad the bill a bit, and thenhave it come under, but to have a little extra for insurance.I’d rather you order extra food than have someone comeand not have enough.

WHEN THE CLIENT WANTS CHAMPAGNE ON A BEER BUDGETMILLER-GERSHFELD:It’s the same challenge [agencies] have when talking withclients. A productive way to [handle] this is to say, “Let’sexplore this and see what’s possible.” That sets reasonableexpectations. I feel more comfortable if someone says, “Ifwe were to make that happen, what would you be willingto give up?”

BERNS ROTHCHILD, FREELANCE PRODUCER: Photographers love to promise the world. They are so happyto have the job they can, in one breath, undo everythingtheir rep has so carefully arranged. The bite-your-tongue pol-icy is the way to go. A very wise rep said to me, “Never say‘no,’ say, ‘yes, let me get back to you with the costs of thatrequest.’” Photographers should do the same—they shouldbe agreeable but they shouldn’t promise anything for free.

ONCE THE JOB IS AWARDEDMILLER-GERSHFELD:Now we get more granular about how to execute the as-


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signment. But some [photographers] haven’t put theirhead into the job yet. My advice is that if you’re on theshort list of photographers [invited] to submit an esti-mate, be ready to execute on the day the job is awarded.Have a crew on hold, have a calendar in front of [the artbuyer], and have the stylist, the casting agent and the lo-cation scout ready to take that next call with the agency.

ROTHCHILD:I always have my set builders on the earlier calls with theagency. I have them listen and ask questions, then dosketches to make sure everyone is on the same page. I set-up conference calls with the agency and stylist once tal-ent has been selected.

THE APPROVAL PROCESS SHARPE: Once the job is awarded, the producer becomes the maincontact person in constant communication with the artbuyer. The producer sets up a Web site and will have on iteverything that needs to be reviewed as the set is beingbuilt or props are found and wardrobe is approved. Theyloop us in on all e-mails.

MILLER-GERSHFELD:I’ve had two kids, and I have as much admiration for goodproducers as I do for the people who administered my epidu-rals. It’s good to have a producer who understands whatevery request means in terms of time and money, and makeseveryone aware of the costs so decisions can be made, butdoesn’t just make those decisions for everyone. A good pro-ducer is not going to qualify your priorities or ours.

One thing I like in a strong producer is direct conversationwith me. Some producers don’t come to me, they always goto the rep first and then the rep calls me. It becomes a gameof telephone. Say the client asks [for an additional shot], agood producer will say to me, “I didn’t think this was includ-ed” and let you me know it’s a [potential] overage before it be-comes an overage. They’ll say, “If we do that, it’s an additional$750. Is it worth it to you?” If the client says “yes,” the produc-er then says, “OK, here’s an overage form for that extra $750.”

THE PRE-SHOOT CALL WITH THE AGENCY DALAGER:You’re rehearsing the pre-pro meeting call, basically. It oc-curs after multiple discussions “off line” between theagent [rep] and [agency art] producer. The photographerhas to be ready to give us specifics on how they’re goingto approach the shoot. Be ready to talk about everythingfrom how you’ve spent money to scheduling to casting tologistics of travel. The pre-production call is kind of a checkpoint. If you’ve gotten too far down the line and spent toomuch of your budget before you have a check point, youmay already be over budget.

FINALLY: THE PRE-PRO MEETINGMILLER-GERSHFELD:It’s mostly a review. We’ve already approved everything. It’s

the client’s first opportunity to speak with the photogra-pher and it’s good for the photographer to talk throughtheir vision. That’s hard for some photographers but theclient is excited to hear from them at this point, not ontechnical things but to hear if it’s moody and dark orbright and optimistic. And it’s a chance to say, for exam-ple, the shoot is on location so bring a sweater or somehiking boots.

ADLER:If problems occur when the job is happening, it’s usuallythe fault of the client. I’ve literally been on a shoot wheresomeone said, “Oh, we forgot to cast for the wife of some-body,” and we had to use the caterer for the wife. That’swhy in the final pre-pro it’s so important for the client tobe on that phone call.

ROTHCHILD:Any talk from the photographer should be pre-approvedby the art buyer. Never answer a question asked by theclient unless it is about lighting or some other easy tech-nical question.


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Estimating is a make-or-break skill for photographers.Agencies use estimates not only to determine what a jobwill cost and whom they can afford, but how well a pho-tographer understands the job, and whether he or she hasa good plan for getting it done. Now estimating is evenmore complicated because agencies often expect moreimages from the shot, broader usage rights and more co-ordination with TV production.

To help our readers understand how to handle those ris-ing expectations, we asked Kat Dalager, print productionmanager at Campbell Mithun in Minneapolis, to provideus with an advertising assignment. We then recruited repsin New York, Chicago and Los Angeles to prepare estimatesfor the job. Afterwards, we dissected the strengths andweaknesses of the estimates. You can see their three com-pleted estimates on the following pages.

THE ASSIGNMENTCampbell Mithun provided project specifications for a li-brary of images intended for use in advertising and pro-motions by a national shoe retailer. The brief called for“photography of models on location in lifestyle shots forthe Spring season.” The agency asked for images that con-veyed these adjectives: colorful, family, playful, energy, ac-tivity, outdoors and fun.

In all, the brief called for eight lifestyle scenarios. Eachscenario was to include a primary shot, plus two or threesecondary shots showing action leading up to the primaryshot and close-ups of shoes worn in the scenario. “All im-ages will be shot as ‘stories’ with one primary talent plusadditional talent to create life situations,” the brief said,adding that the images should emphasize the peoplerather than the environment.

Campbell Mithun provided a “cheat sheet” (layout) withstock photos showing seven scenarios that art directorshad in mind; the eighth scenario was left open for the pho-tographer to create on set with the models, location andprops on hand.

The agency asked for a treatment describing the pho-tographer’s intended approach to shooting, casting,wardrobe and propping. The agency also indicated thatwhile the print and TV productions were budgeted sepa-rately, the estimates for print production should consideropportunities for saving expenses by coordinating the TVand print shoots.

The project specifications indicated that the imageswere intended primarily for in-store use on walls and in

windows, and secondarily for the covers of newspaper sup-plements. But the ad agency specified one year of exclu-sive worldwide advertising and promotion rights in allmedia except broadcast. “We will need use of all imagesas a library,” it added.

THE PRE-ESTIMATE PHONE CALLSBefore submitting their estimates, each rep had a pre-es-timate phone call with Dalager. Pre-estimate calls give thephotographers (or their reps or producers) a chance to askabout logistical details of the job, and the agency’s expec-tations, so they can figure out how much to spend on var-ious aspects of production. We were able to listen in, andfound the calls strikingly different. The information thereps got depended upon the questions they asked, whichin turn depended upon their experience.

REP #1: THE BASICS (PROPS, MODELSAND TV)With Rep #1, from New York, Dalager discussed highlightsof the brief and layouts, and then answered productionquestions: What wardrobe does the client provide? (An-swer: nothing except shoes.) Do I need a prop stylist? (An-swer: yes.) What’s the budget? (Answer: tight, so get in asmany shots a day as you can.) The rep suggested that giv-en the right location, all of the shots could be executed intwo days in one place. “That would be ideal,” Dalager said.

Dalager then mentioned coordinating the shoot with TVproduction. Clients want to do that more and more toeliminate redundant production expenses, she explained.She said location scouting, casting and wardrobe were allareas for potential savings because they could be sharedby both productions. Point out ways to combine any costs,she advised Rep #1. “It won’t change your estimate. Thethought process changes, so it’s much more of a collabo-rative process, with not only the agency, but with the TVcrew.”

Rep #1 then asked how much to budget for models.Dalager said $4,000 for adult models and close to $3,000for kids, because the models would also be hired for theTV shoot. Then Rep #1 asked how many models the shootwould require: Six? Eight? Dalager hedged, referring therep to the cheat sheet for clues. But she hinted, “Some-times we can repurpose the same people—they could bebackground here, and primary there.”

The conversation wrapped up over a discussion of thenumber of shots. The brief calls for three or four second-

Estimating 2.0: Bidding on an All-Media Library ShootAdvertisers expect more production and usage rights than ever from photographers.To show our readers how to handle those expectations, three reps demonstrate thetriple-bid process using an assignment from Campbell Mithun. By David Walker


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ary shots per scenario, while the cheatsheet shows only one or two. Rep #1 askedabout the discrepancy. Dalager said, “Whenwe shoot a library, secondary shots areeverything from pulling farther back, toclose ups of the shoes.” Translation: Shoota lot to give the art director choices.

REP #2: USAGE FIRST, THENWARDROBE AND POST PRODalager’s conversation with Chicago-basedRep #2 opened with a question about usage:By asking for a library, was the client askingfor rights to the entire take, or a certain se-lection—say, 100 images? Dalager said shewanted the entire take, not because theclient would use all the images, but because“I don’t want to see the images used any-where else.” Rep #2 explained that she asksthe question to clarify the client’s needs, be-cause usage rights for an entire take can bemuch more costly than rights to a more lim-ited selection.

From there, the questions proceeded rapidfire (we’ve abbreviated them to save space):

Q:Multiple wardrobe changes per scenario? A: One wardrobe per scenario.

Q: Shoes shot on location or in the studio?A: All on location.

Q: Should shoes be shot from multipledirections?A: Yes. Same with main [primary] images:Use a loose, fashion spread-style rather thanlocking down the camera.

Q: Delivery should be just RAW processedfiles? A: Yes, and we’ll send back approved imagesfor retouching.

Q: We’ll do basic clean up. Do you preferto do compositing?A: Yes.

Q: Is there anything you’ve done on previ-ous shoots like this that worked well, ordidn’t work well?

Dalager answered this question by reiter-ating what she told Rep #1 about coordinat-ing with TV production to save expenses.

Then Rep #2 asked what the art directorwanted to see the talent doing in the videocasting call. “I need to know how much timeto estimate for casting,” she explained.Dalager said to ask models about their gen-eral physical fitness, since they would be ex-


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pected to do things such as ride a bike andplay leapfrog. “Other questions are how theywork with kids, and from the kids we want toknow what’s their attention span and arethey able to follow directions,” Dalager said.

She added that the models should be eth-nically diverse, including Hispanics andAfrican-Americans. “We don’t want it to lookhomogenous,” she said. Rep #2 asked if thetalent budget should be part of the estimate(answer: yes) and what the age limit of themodels was (answer: 30).

REP #3: A GLIMPSE ATNEGOTIATINGRep #3, based in Los Angeles, explained thatwithout a creative call, which typically pre-cedes the pre-estimate call, she decided todraft her estimate in advance as a way ofthinking through creative details and logis-tics. So her pre-estimate call turned into adiscussion about her thought process. It alsodemonstrated how art buyers negotiate esti-mates that are too high—as Rep #3’s was at$275,000 after the first draft. For instance,Dalager suggested a two-day shoot insteadof the four-day shoot Rep #3 had assumed.

Rep #3 said some photographers could dothe job comfortably in two days; others could not. (For the sake of this exercise, thereps submitted estimates without specifyinga particular photographer.) Rep #3 also not-ed that the photographer’s fee is highly variable, depending upon the chosen photog-rapher, the number of shoot days and the me-dia buy. She also explained that having abudget number enables her to “work back-wards” to better estimate the photographer’sfee and the usage.

Although we asked Dalager to leave out abudget number to see how variable the esti-mates might be, she said including a budgetnumber saves work by eliminating “a lot of backand forth” in the bidding process. She then saidthe budget she had in mind for the assignmentwas about $100,000, plus talent fees.

Rep #3 recalculated the numbers then andthere assuming a two-day shoot, and broughtthe estimate down to about $170,000. “Wecould talk about [other] refinements and getit closer to what I need it to be,” Dalager said.

Rep #3 asked if she could eliminate re-touching to save $6,000 from her draft budg-et; Dalager said yes, retouching could bebilled as needed later on. Rep #3 went on toexplain she had taken a guess on other lineitems. For instance, the job seemed “light onprops” so she estimated $1,000 for props, plusthe cost of a prop truck. She estimated $2,500


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for a dog and dog trainer, but would make do with any(free) dog and no trainer if she had to cut costs.

“We can talk about whether we want to be kamikazeabout this: You know, ‘Here are some people we pho-tographed before, who look interesting and we can getthem for $500 each,” Rep #3 explained.

Dalager told us after the call that her next step withRep #3 would be to negotiate for a lower usage rate. “Mycomfort level would be to pay no more than $40,000 intotal fees, and preferably $20,000 to $30,000,” dependingupon the photographer’s participation in location scout-ing, casting and prep, she said. “Ultimately I’d want thisestimate to come in at $130,000 with talent.”

COMPARING THE ESTIMATES:DALAGER’S ASSESSMENTNoting that estimates show art buyers whether photog-raphers have an understanding of what a job requires,Dalager said Rep #2 “automatically scores bigger pointsbecause she’s so thorough. I liked her detail and approach.”Dalager praised both the treatment Rep #2 submitted, andher alternative estimate for shooting in Florida, showinga 20 percent savings over a Los Angeles shoot. Rep #2’s es-timates also summarized costs up front so Dalager could“see everything at a glance on page one” before diving in-to the details.

Dalager was skeptical of Rep #3’s estimate because ofthe relatively high photographer fees. “I look at fees inproportion to production expenses, and it tells me whatthe photographer’s priorities are. This estimate makes mewonder: Is she short-changing my production?” But thenDalager added, “It’s entirely negotiable. She may be put-ting the fees high, knowing I’m going to negotiate itdown.”

Considering expenses, Dalager said numbers from Reps#1 and #2 “were appropriate. I could probably get themdown $10,000 by shaving here or there.” Rep #2’s estimatewould easily come down that much by reducing the shootdays from four to two. “I think we can compress it,” butRep #2 could argue persuasively that the photographer’sapproach requires more time. “And then it becomes a cre-ative call,” Dalager said.

She was unphased by some obvious differences in ex-penses. Rep #2 was the only one who budgeted for crewhotel and travel expenses. Photographers have to decidewhether to expense those costs or absorb them, Dalagernoted. At the same time, she says, “I have to decidewhether the photographer is worth it.” It’s subject to ne-gotiation, but here it wasn’t an issue for Dalager becauseRep #2’s estimate total is competitive, even with the trav-el costs included.

Dalager also said that Rep #2’s $10,000 estimate for twomotor homes worked in her favor, even though the other es-timates budgeted less than half that amount. The reasonwas because clients are usually happier when the digital vil-lage is in a motor home instead of a tent, so a second mo-tor home is money well spent. (The other motor home is formakeup and wardrobe.) Likewise, she said, catering is not aline item she tries to cut first, because everyone is easier to

please when they’re well-fed and happy.“Rep #2 might not be the cheapest, but she’s thinking

about client comfort,” Dalager said. Dalager mentioned the insurance line items of all three

estimates to say they were reasonable, and explained thatmany photographers use insurance to pad their estimates.“Insurance is my peeve,” she said.

A SECOND OPINIONFor another assessment, we turned to freelance art buyerHeather Morton. She had one persistent question: Can thisshoot really be done well in two days? “I’m really stressedabout that,” she said after bringing it up several times.

Shooting four scenarios per day, she explained, wouldrequire a photographer capable of shooting quickly, a pro-ducer able to keep things smooth on a tight schedule, andalmost no location changes. And finding one or two loca-tions with enough visual variety to cover the scenarioswould be a scouting challenge, Morton said.

Compressing the shoot to two days wouldn’t cut thebudget in half, either, she noted. For instance, locationscouting might take more time. The hair and make-upcrew might have to be bigger to keep everything movingon a tighter schedule. A pre-production wardrobe callmight be necessary, because there would be no time onset to try clothes on models. And a two-day shoot mightrequire overtime expenses, Morton surmised.

With all those caveats in mind, Morton said she wasmost impressed by Rep #2. “She seemed really detailed.She took into account the things Kat outlined in the brief.It showed she was paying attention.” Morton also liked thetreatment Rep #2 submitted because it made a strongcase for shooting in Florida instead of L.A. on the groundsthat locations there are just as good, while costs would beabout 20 percent less. The treatment also described howthe photographer would work with the talent, Mortonnoted.

Morton said of Rep #2’s estimate that video casting wasa “smart place to spend,” and she liked that the estimateindicated that talent would be encouraged to “show arange of playfulness and energy” during the casting shoot.

But Morton wondered: Was one day enough for casting?The treatment suggested two days for that, but the budg-et allowed for only one. She also doubted that one day wasenough for location scouting. And she questioned whetherthree days was enough for wardrobe prep, because one ofthose days should be set aside for fitting.

At the same time, seven days of producer pre-prepseemed a little much to Morton, especially when four daysof shooting meant a relatively relaxed production pace.“That should be five or six days,” she said.

Morton suggested another day of equipment rental toallow time for pick-up or returns, so as not to cut intoshooting time. She noted that Rep #2 was missing a dogand trainer, although the other two estimates includedthat. Finally, she said, “the catering needs to come down”on all three estimates.

Morton surmised that the next step she would takewith Rep #2 would be to talk about doing the shoot in


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three days instead of four to get the total cost (excludingmodel fees) closer to $100,000. “Nobody explored that,”Morton said.

Regarding the estimate from Rep #1, Morton noted thatit called for a two-day shoot, which led her to reiterate allof her concerns, and suggest that Rep #1 should budgetmore for location scouting and for a three-person hair andmake-up team (a dedicated hair stylist, a dedicated make-up artist and an assistant). That might prevent bottlenecksduring the shoot, Morton said, especially if there is thesecond shooter called for in the estimate. (“An interestingidea,” Morton said of using a second shooter.)

Morton went on to say that Rep #1 should have bud-geted another day for the prop stylist to do returns. At thesame time, she questioned the stylist expenses: “$700 forwhat?” And she said Rep #1 should consider scheduling themodels so all of them don’t have to be on set both days.“Doing the kids on one day would save $4,500, plus an-other $900 for the set teacher.”

Turning to the estimate from Rep #3, Morton was blunt:“Fees are high, lighting rental is high, equipment rental ishigh. This just looks like a cash grab, compared to the oth-er quotes. She knows that the budget is tight. This just does not play well.” And then Morton continued: Assistantcosts, casting, catering—all too high. The only expensethat seemed low, she said, was talent fees. And the esti-mate left her doubting that basic retouching was includ-ed. “I would want to know for sure that the client wasgoing to get cleaned up images, at least.”

THE BOTTOM LINEIn a triple bid, the advantage usually goes to the photog-rapher at the top of the art director’s list. But assumingno photographer preference for the sake of our exercise,Rep #2’s photographer is on track to win the job. Both artbuyers appreciated the detail and clarity of that estimate,which showed an understanding of the job and an appre-ciation for the client’s needs and budget. In short, estimate#2 made the best impression, and left both art buyerstalking about how easy it would be to negotiate minor de-tails on the way to awarding the job.


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When clients call for photography, they don’t alwaysknow what they want, or what their budget is, and figur-ing it out can pose a challenge. Sacramento photographerBill Foster recently encountered one such client he’d nev-er worked with before. He used a combination of problemsolving and negotiating skills that not only won him thejob, but earned him a steady client, too.

The client is an East Coast supplier of mice to researchlabs at universities, pharmaceutical companies and otherinstitutions. To better serve customers out west, the clientwas opening a breeding facility in California. A week or sobefore the opening, they realized it was their last chanceto get pictures inside the new facility because their “cleanroom” breeding operations are off limits to anyone andeverything—including photographers and their gear—that might introduce contamination.

The client employs a staff photographer but, not want-ing to fly him and his gear across the country, they decid-ed to hire a local photographer. When they searched forcorporate shooters around Sacramento, Foster’s namecame up high on the list. They called, and told him theywere looking for 15 to 20 images with a loose license forvarious uses, including their Web site and catalogue. In ef-fect, they wanted someone to create a small corporate im-age archive.

Among the first questions Foster asked was whetherthe client had a budget. They didn’t. He also asked abouta shoot list. That would have made the estimate easier,Foster explains, because it would have suggested the time,equipment and personnel required to do the job. But theclient didn’t have a list.

“The initial job scope was vague. They just said we needsome photos inside the lab environment, but they didn’thave specific photos in mind,” Foster says.

Foster surmised that the client was used to handing itsin-house photographer non-specific requests, and lettinghim figure out the art direction and logistics. Expectingthe same of Foster, they asked him to submit a proposal.

He had asked whether the client was talking to otherphotographers. They weren’t. They explained that timewas short and they had to get the job done. Foster tookthat as a sign that getting the lowest price wasn’t theirtop concern.

On the other hand, he realized soon enough that mon-ey would be an issue. By doing research online about theclient, he learned that they were a not-for-profit organi-zation. “That doesn’t mean they have no budget, but itdoes mean that they don’t have a lot of extra money ly-ing around,” Foster says. “It wasn’t going to be a high-budget shoot.”

That meant he would have to keep production costsdown by keeping the shots simple. So rather than pressthe client for a shot list, or try to plan shots on his own,Foster decided to approach it like an editorial shoot. Hefigured he could scout the location to see what he had towork with in terms of props, backdrops and subjects, andthen improvise the shots.

Using that approach, Foster figured it would take himtwo days to execute 15 or 20 strong images. Based onSacramento rates for corporate work, he estimated $2,500for a creative fee. He also estimated $2,000 for the usagefee and $250 for an assistant.

“I usually pick a starting point of $200 [per] image for aone-year license,” he explains. “Yeah, it’s low, but I generallydon’t work with clients who enjoy paying high image licensefees. My clients are usually middle-of-the-road businesses.”

In this case, he decided to cap the license fee at $2,000to give the client a bulk discount, and to keep an evenhigher estimate from driving the client away in search ofanother photographer.

The total estimate, then, was $4,750. Normally, Fosteritemizes expenses on estimates. That helps build a levelof trust with clients, he explains. “I like being as up frontand open as possible, even if it [invites] people to ques-tion items. It shows that I have integrity, and that I’m notafraid of showing numbers.”

But Foster didn’t itemize this estimate. He presented itin a lump sum. The reason was because the client wasused to working with an in-house photographer, and Fos-ter thought the $2,500 creative fee might give the clientsticker shock. “I didn’t want to scare them away, and givethem a reason to call another photographer,” he says.

Foster submitted his bid to the client’s photo depart-ment. They sent it up the chain of command and wordcame back that they couldn’t afford any more than $2,500for the job. The client also did what clients so often do dur-ing negotiations: Dangled the possibility of future assign-ments if things went well with the job at hand.

“Normally, clients are nebulous about it,” says Foster. Sohe tries not to let vague promises of future work softenhis negotiating stance. But this time, the client was spe-cific. “They started naming times and dates when theywould need a photographer,” he says. The jobs included anarchitectural shoot right after construction was complet-ed, an open house celebration and a conference event.

“The specific dates made me more willing to negotiateprice,” Foster says. “They had work lined up. They didn’tguarantee it. But I realized that because they now have afacility out here, they’re going to need a photographerthey can rely on periodically.”

The Estimate Doctor: Improvising froma Vague Brief and Unspecified BudgetWhile negotiating over his fee and expenses, a photographer decided not to let aclient’s promise of future work compromise his fee.


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Still, Foster wasn’t going to make price concessionswithout somehow scaling back his proposal. So he sug-gested a one-day shoot for the client’s $2,500 budget,with a promise to deliver ten to 12 images rather than15 to 20. “I explained that if I spent a day shooting, I stillhad to do three more hours of editing back at my of-fice,” he says. “They understood that because the per-son I was negotiating with was in the photodepartment. By talking with someone who knew whatwas involved, it made it a lot easier.”

The client agreed to the terms. Foster ended up scout-ing the facility two or three days before the shoot. By look-ing around at what was available, he came up with a shotlist. On the shoot day, he brought along a few “basic um-brella lights,” and composed shots with the people andequipment he found available. “We spent 20 to 30 min-utes tops on each shot,” Foster says, “It was a run-and-guntype of thing.”

The client was obviously satisfied. They called Fosterback to shoot the jobs they had talked about during thenegotiations. It all amounted to more than $10,000 worthof additional work, he says.

Estimate Doctor case studies are provided courtesy ofJohn Harrington, author of Best Business Practices forPhotographers, Second Edition.


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It can be challenging enough to get your asking pricefrom an experienced client, let alone a novice client sub-ject to sticker shock. That weighed on photographer MarkFinkenstaedt’s mind when he got a call from a small, two-year-old company in Virginia that makes Irish soda breadmixes. The owner of the company, which we’ll call NanaBread, operates out of her kitchen and had realized herproduct packaging needed a more professional look if herbusiness was to grow.

“My first thought was, she is never going to pay what Iwant,” Finkenstaedt says. “She’s going from her husband’spoint-and-shoot photography to me, and she has no idea.”

To his surprise, Finkenstaedt got his price—$4,000 in-cluding creative fee, expenses and usage. He did it by jug-gling the numbers, and going out of his way to make theclient feel more comfortable than she might with otherphotographers. “I didn’t know who else she was talking to,but I knew $4,000 would be really easy to beat,” he says.

The client’s inexperience was obvious from the start.She had found Finkenstaedt by Googling “Virginia photog-raphers.” She liked the food photography she saw on hisWeb site, although he had shot it primarily for editorialclients, not commercial ones. He asked about her budget,but she didn’t have one, “and didn’t have a clue how muchit would cost,” he says.

But as he quickly sized up her business, Finkenstaedtlearned that Nana Bread had distribution through sever-al supermarkets in the Washington, D.C., area. So he tookthe inquiry seriously, asking the client why she wanted thephotography and how she envisioned it. He found out thatbeyond her packaging, she wanted to use the images onher Web site and in trade show materials.

Initially, Finkenstaedt was under the impression thatshe wanted product shots on white seamless. But then shementioned the packaging of a competitor’s product thatshe liked. Finkenstaedt looked at the competitor’s Website, and saw that their packaging was “more pictorial”with still-life shots of the bread on a table, juxtaposedwith key ingredients.

“I thought it was a $1,500 job, but when she mentioned[the competitor’s packaging], I realized there was a lotmore too it,” Finkenstaedt says.

At that point, he momentarily set aside his concern thathe was going to be out of her price range. She had com-plimented his work several times, so Finkenstaedt decid-ed to try to “set the hook” with a sales pitch. He simplyput himself in her place, imagined what her anxietiesmust be and addressed them.

“Because she was just a beginner, I didn’t want her tofeel that she had no control,” he says. He suggested doing

the shoot at her house, and mentioned that he wouldshoot it tethered so she could see the images as he wascreating them. “I made her feel that she would basicallybe art directing. I was trying to give her a good feeling bydescribing how we would nurture her. I figured she would-n’t get that from my competitors. So if everyone came inunder my price, she would remember that I was going totake care of her.”

When he got off the phone, Finkenstaedt called photog-rapher and photo business consultant John Harrington forsome pricing advice. Finkenstaedt used to freelancesteadily for the Washington Post at a fixed rate of $175 perday. When he started doing other freelance work, it wasHarrington who “brought him up to snuff” on pricing jobs,he says. “I credit him with teaching me how to be success-ful and win jobs.”

His discussion with Harrington revolved mostly aroundthe creative fee, the usage fee and what the client mightbe willing to pay for the entire job.

“There are natural break points for any consumer mak-ing a [buying] decision,” Harrington explains. “That’s whyyou see prices like 99¢ or $99. I’m always asking myself,‘What is the client’s ceiling likely to be?’”

For smaller clients, natural break points occur at $1,000,$2,000, $4,000, $5,000, $7,500 and $10,000, he says. Basedon the size of Nana Bread, its location (Google Mapsshowed that it was in a residential neighborhood), and theclient’s experience, Harrington and Finkenstaedt guessedthat her limit was $4,000. Even that number might shockand dissuade an inexperienced client, they thought. Butthey couldn’t select a lower ceiling because Finkenstaedtdecided that his creative fee alone had to be between$1,850 and $2,250, based upon his experience and his mar-ket. “That’s the number I want on average for this type ofwork,” he says. “I’m past those times when I would go outfor any price.”

Harrington arrived at $2,250 for the creative fee, figur-ing a product shoot in the market is generally worth$1,800, but this job merited a 25 percent premium becauseof the creative input required. After all, the client wasn’tasking for two shots on white seamless or handing thephotographer comps.

Finkenstaedt calculated expenses on his own, allotting$200 for an assistant, $375 for capture and post produc-tion, $55 for output to DVD and $25 for delivery, for a to-tal of $655. Harrington had asked if he needed a digitaltech as well as an assistant. Finkenstaedt said no, becausehe had to keep expenses to a minimum. With the $4,000ceiling in mind, Finkenstaedt also decided to recommendthe client hire a food stylist separately, to keep a $500 line

The Estimate Doctor: Reeling in a Novice ClientPhotographer Mark Finkenstaedt describes how he won a job for a product shoot for$4,000 from an inexperienced small business client.


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item off his estimate but still get the best results for theclient that he could.

From that point, the usage fee was a matter of reverseengineering. Finkenstaedt had asked the client how theimages would be used, but forgot to ask how long shewanted to use them. So he and Harrington assumed a li-cense for the life of the product. They also assumed itwould remain regional. Prompted by a price range sug-gested by fotoQuote software for those usage parame-ters, they valued the usage at around $1,500. But thecreative fee and expenses already added to nearly $3,000.So Finkenstaedt decided to charge $1,050 to keep the to-tal cost just under $4,000.

The reason for avoiding a round figure such as $1,000is psychological, Harrington explains. “I’d make it $950 or$1,050. I learned that from Cradoc Bagshaw, who devel-oped fotoQuote. He never has an even number. That way,if I say $560, you think it’s $560. If I say $600, you thinkyou can negotiate.”

When Finkenstaedt submitted his estimate, he com-bined the usage fee and creative fee as one line item for$3,300 for simplicity’s sake. He explains, “[The client] waslooking at the bottom line, and separate line items wouldjust confuse her, I imagined.” With expenses, the grand to-tal came to $3,955.

Nana Bread hired Finkenstaedt within a week of receiv-ing the estimate. The client didn’t try to negotiate the fee.Finkenstaedt is convinced his sales pitch made all the dif-ference. “She wanted to work with me because she felt likeshe was going to get the service,” he says. She also tookFinkenstaedt’s recommendation to hire a food stylist, anda good thing, too: The stylist noticed that a sheaf of wheatthe client provided as a prop wasn’t wheat after all. “Hadshe blundered along with just me, she would have had asheaf of weeds in the picture,” Finkenstaedt says.

Asked if there’s anything he would have done different-ly in the way he estimated the job, Finkenstaedt says no,but cringes at one careless error. In his enthusiasm to pro-vide the stylist’s contact information, he sent her Web ad-dress to the client. Then he realized the stylist’s Web sitefeatures images “by five other great photographers whoshoot food all day long.” But by then, apparently, NanaBread had eyes only for Finkenstaedt, and the job was his.



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One reason to limit the license rights you sell to com-mercial clients is that they often end up coming back lat-er to license additional rights—for more money. That wasthe case for photographer Sam Kittner, who nearly dou-bled his billings for a recent last-minute CEO portraitshoot.

The client is a multi-national engineering firm, with itsmain U.S. operation in Washington, D.C. Several weeks ago,company administrators realized that they needed a por-trait on short notice of their new CEO for an internal pub-lication. They called Kittner and asked if he could shoot theportrait the next day.

“Basically it involved an executive portrait in his office.He had limited time—maybe half an hour,” the photogra-pher recounts.

Kittner had another job scheduled for the day, but thisjob seemed straightforward and quick. He asked if it wouldbe possible to show up at 7:30 to scout the CEO’s office,set up, and then shoot as soon as he came into work at 9.

The client said yes. Caught up in the client’s rush, hiseagerness to land a fast, easy job and the chance to starta relationship with a new client, Kittner broke one of thebasic rules of estimating: He gave the client a price on thespot, without hanging up the phone to give it at least afew minutes thought first.

The danger of off-the-cuff pricing is that it’s easy to over-look costs, and estimate too low. “You have to either eat thecosts, or go back hat in hand and ask for more, which looksbad from a professional standpoint,” says John Harrington,another D.C. photographer and photo business consultant.

Kittner’s estimate was $1,750. He has been shooting inthe D.C. market for more than 20 years, and the estimatewas based upon his knowledge of the going rate for exec-utive portraiture in the area, he says. The price includedinternal use only, which meant the client could use theportrait in its internal publications and on its Web site.

Although he didn’t get the impression that the clientwas shopping around, Kittner says, “I priced on the lowerside of the range because of the way the economy hasbeen lately. I might have priced closer to $2,000 or $2,500a year ago, but didn’t want to open the door for her [theperson who called] to look elsewhere if I was over $2,000.Plus I was dealing with a local office rep, not a communi-cations department person.”

Asked if he factored a rush fee into his price, Kittnersays, “That was one of the things that slipped by me. Ishould have taken time and said, ‘Let me get back to youin a few minutes.’ But I was juggling other things, so Ijumped right in and quoted, and I have some regret aboutthat.” Normally, he says, he would have added a rush fee

of $300 to $500. He also notes that he probably could havegotten more than the $1,750 that he asked for. “[The client]didn’t balk at the price,” he says.

The shoot itself went smoothly. Because the CEO arrivedto work earlier than expected, Kittner was able to finishthe job and be on his way even sooner than he expected.By day’s end, he had posted a lightbox of images. The clientselected one, which Kittner prepped and delivered.

Three weeks later he got another call, this time fromsomeone in the client’s corporate marketing department.She wanted additional usage rights—specifically, rights todistribute the image with press releases. This time, Kittnersaid he’d call her back with a price.

The number he had in mind was $1,500. But he wasn’tcertain about it. He’d considered $1,200, but didn’t wantto quote too low. At the same time, Kittner was thinkingagain about the bad economy. “I wanted to smooth thedeal so it would go down without a lot of backwash aswell as leave open the door with this company that has alot of image needs besides corporate portraiture that I’minterested in,” Kittner says. (In particular, he was anticipat-ing that the client might call for architectural images ofits various projects.)

Kittner ended up calling Harrington for feedback on the$1,500 price. “I cautioned Sam against ‘chunked’ numbers,like $1,000, $1,500, $1,550 or even $2,000. [Those] numberscome across as tossed out, and they’re easily negotiateddown,” Harrington explains. “I suggested that some num-bers seem hard or harsh, while others seem soft and com-fortable. For example, a number like $1,490 seems hard,while $1,420 or even $1,410 seems comfortable.”

“I tend to price on the fives: $1,750, $2,500,” Kittner recalls.“John said numbers like $1,420 and $1,460 are more soothingthan fives.” Thinking about common retail pricing numberssuch as $19.99 and $1,999, Kittner realized that prices can havea strong psychological effect. So he decided to take Harring-ton’s “soft number” advice, and told the client the price wouldbe $1,460 for the additional use.

The client accepted that price quickly, without any attemptto negotiate it down. “So maybe I could have [charged] a lit-tle more, but we’re onto the next thing. The bottom line is, thejob earned well over $3,000, and that seems pretty okay. Andwe’re on to other things. I’m setting up a phone appointmentwith this [communications department contact] to talk aboutother projects they might have.”


The Estimate Doctor: A Rush Job, Then a Call for Additional Usage RightsWashington, D.C., photographer Sam Kittner learned two lessons from one job: The danger of pricing in haste, and the advantage of offbeat pricing numbers.


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Some job negotiations start and end badly, but failure—painful as it may be—can teach valuable and memorablelessons. Such was the case for Washington, D.C., photog-rapher Kristina Sherk, who recently answered a call forcorporate headshots from a Washington think tank.

Sherk’s bread-and-butter business is shooting headshots ofactors. The think tank found her by Googling “Washington,D.C., headshot photographer” and asked Sherk to quote a pricefor photographing its president. Depending upon how satis-fied they were with her work and her price, they told her theymight hire her to photograph more employees.

For actors who come to Sherk’s studio, she offers threedifferent packages (one, two or three retouched portraits)for $425, $475 and $525, respectively. She set those pricesbecause competitors were charging between $300 and$400 for actor headshots, and she decided that $400 washer price floor for that type of job.

Sherk offered the think tank the same packages, butraised her price by $150 for each one because she had totravel to the client’s office. The package prices includedWeb and marketing use of the images for one year. Fur-thermore, she told the client that she would shoot addi-tional portraits on the same day for $100 each.

“I like to walk out the door with $1,000,” she says, ex-plaining that in her experience, corporate clients typical-ly have a budget of about $1,000 when they ask forportraits, and they usually want several done at a time. Soher starting prices satisfy clients’ needs and expectations,and usually get her to the $1,000 threshhold.

THE PRESSURE FOR PRICE CONCESSIONSFrom the beginning, price seemed to be the think tank’sprimary concern. They asked whether she could return toshoot additional portraits at the $100 price. She declined,but under pressure to get her price down, offered to doadditional portraits for $85 each, provided they were allshot the same day.

Wanting to take advantage of Sherk’s volume discount,the client decided to schedule 20 portraits for the sameday, but continued to press for price concessions. “Giventhat we have so many people, we are hopeful you will beable to give us a price break for the group,” her client con-tact wrote in an e-mail.

Sherk proposed $525 for the first portrait, $85 each forportraits two to ten, and $75 each for portraits 11 to 20, fora total of $2,090. As she pointed out to the client, that

worked out to just $104.50 per person.The client wrote back: “Is there any way we could get

somewhere in the range of $1,600 to $1,700?”“I was frustrated,” Sherk says. In addition to the shoot

day, there was the retouching, which would take Sherk atleast ten additional hours. “I was thinking at that point,this isn’t worth my time anymore.”

For guidance, Sherk contacted John Harrington, for whomshe recently worked as a post-production manager when shewas getting her own business started after college.

THE PITFALL OF LOW EXPECTATIONS“I suggested in e-mail that [the job] should be worth$3,500,” he says. “That’s based upon roughly $150 or $165for each additional person. For portraits on seamless, it’sunfair to beat someone down below $150 per portrait.”

It’s not just that clients beat photographers down, headds. Photographers often don’t ask for enough in the firstplace. “Some photographers consider $1,500 a good day’spay, but when you’re churning through all those portraits,it’s not,” he says.

Sherk justifies her corporate headshot prices on thegrounds that they require a lot less creative thought thanthe headshots she does for actors at about the same price.For the corporate subjects, she says, “It’s just put them infront of a background and snap, snap, snap.”

At the same time, she says Harrington’s prices “shouldbe the norm for D.C. corporate work,” but she is at a lossto explain why she doesn’t raise her prices.

Harrington says that’s not unusual. “There are timeswhen I’ll tell photographers they’re worth a certainamount, but it takes time for them to realize that,” he says.When he started out, he was charging $450 per corporateportrait, plus $130 for additional portraits at the same lo-cation. It was several years before he realized that was“way to low,” he explained in an e-mail, so he raised hisprice to $750 plus expenses, which brings the total toabout $1,000 for the first portrait. And he charges $165 foreach additional portrait. “I would have walked away fromKristina’s job for less than $3,500,” he says.

SUBTRACTING VALUE TO MEET THECLIENT’S PRICEAccepting the fact that photographers walk away at verydifferent numbers, Harrington advised her to take some-thing of value away if the client wanted her to drop her

The Estimate Doctor: Negotiating with a Hard Bargainer (and theImportance of Paperwork)When a client pushes repeatedly for a lower price, a photographer discovers ways to push back and hold her line. Then she pays a price for not getting anagreement in writing.


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price to $1,700. And Sherk did just that: She told the clientthat $1,700 would include no retouching, and no on-siteworkstation that enabled people to select their favoriteimage on the spot. That meant her client contact wouldhave to spend time—probably a day—“running aroundwith proofs to find out which image everyone likes” justto save a few hundred dollars. Sherk asked the client con-tact if that would be worth her time.

It worked. Not wanting to forego the retouching or theworkstation, the client agreed to the $2,090, and sched-uled the shoot. “There are leverage points that you can usein this ‘game’ to keep your price up. It’s not like the clienthas the upper hand,” Sherk says. “Anything that’s going tomake it more convenient for them, you can take away tomeet a price.”

Alas, the story takes one last nasty turn. Sherk showedup with her equipment and an assistant on the appoint-ed day, only to be told on arrival that the shoot was off.The client told her they had called and e-mailed her tocancel the shoot, “but I had gotten no call or e-mail fromthem,” Sherk says.

The client’s explanation, according to Sherk, was thatthey didn’t have the money, and the president was out ofthe office that day, so they decided to scrap the wholeshoot. Sherk had no recourse, for the simple reason thatshe had no signed contract for the job. She had to eat theexpenses, including the assistant’s fee.

“It was completely my fault,” Sherk says. “I knew I didn’t have any leverage, because I had never asked themto sign anything.”

Harrington had advised her in the past to get clients tosign a binding contract such as a purchase order, to pro-tect her from last-minute cancellations. But she was ac-customed to working on the basis of verbal agreementsover the phone. “I’ve since learned, and I now make every-one sign a contract,” Sherk says.

“Once you get burned,” Harrington says, “you get reli-gion.”



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Photographers’ clients—and the advertising agency artbuyers who represent them in their negotiations withphotographers—are often unsure of how they will use theimages they commission or for how long. That means anincreasing number of clients ask photographers for unlim-ited use of images, rather than negotiating print use, Webuse, out of home and other uses separately. Many clientsare also trying to license still images for longer time pe-riods. At times, they are seeking in-perpetuity usage agree-ments and even, in a few cases, copyright transfers.

Clients and buyers are also increasingly asking photog-raphers to create motion content, often without a clearsense of how that motion content will be used—or howthe usage should be negotiated. Because most broadcastdirectors shoot commercials as work for hire, some artbuyers expect to own the copyright to the videos that stillphotographers shoot. Others treat motion as an add-onto still photography rather than as a separate asset.

WHY UNLIMITED USAGE?It used to be that clients and their agencies would hirephotographers to shoot an image for, for example, a printad and then license the image for a year or two. If a clientwanted to license the image for an in-store ad, for prod-uct packaging or for a billboard, that usage and the lengthof the license would be negotiated separately.

Now, because images are being used in so many waysby advertisers, and because those usages aren’t alwaysclearly defined at the outset of a campaign, unlimited or“all media” usage for a specified time period has becomethe first demand of many buyers and clients.

Additionally, instead of commissioning images for a sin-gle ad campaign, many agencies are asking photogra-phers, especially those producing lifestyle images, to turnover several images, or “assets,” to the ad agency to beused across various print, out of home, Web and digitalplatforms over a specific length of time as the client andtheir advertising needs dictate.

“People are asking more for the unlimited [usage] at themoment,” says photographers’ rep Gregg Lhotsky of Bern-stein Andriulli. “They’re hiring our talent [photographers],who are providing services to them and turning over as-sets, and those assets—they can do whatever they wantto do with them over that time period.”

Nili Zadok, a project manager and art buyer with adagency 180LA, says many of the agency’s clients haveadopted a “super-shoot” style of production, which in-volves bringing photographers and broadcast directors to-gether in a single, large production on multiple sets thatyields assets for broadcast, print, digital and more. “We’retrying to obtain as extensive a [still] shot list as possible,

but what our needs are going to be out of that aren’t go-ing to be determined until after the shoot,” Zadok says.“Hence we kind of need to be as flexible as possible withusage on the upfront.”

If a client negotiates the rights to unlimited print us-age, for instance, they can hand the images off to the adagencies and design firms and use them for as many in-store and direct mail pieces as needed. Unlimited Web us-age has also become a priority for buyers, says Sara Clark,an art buyer at ad agency JWT New York, because even ifa client has no immediate plans to use the assigned pho-tography in online ads, they will probably end up wantingto do so in the future. Eventually, “It’s going to go on theWeb,” she says.

Though clients want unlimited or all media usage, theyoften don’t want to pay any more than they would to li-cense rights for a specific print execution with a clearlydefined media buy. “[Clients’] budgets aren’t increasingdespite the fact that they’re asking for more, which makesour jobs more difficult,” Zadok says.

LENGTH OF LICENSEClients are also demanding longer licenses, so they can usethe images for longer periods of time.

JWT’s Clark notes that longer terms and even in-perpe-tuity deals are becoming more and more common. Shesays that at times, she will show clients options for one-year, three-years and in-perpetuity licenses so they cansee that paying a few thousand dollars more to extend theterm upfront as part of a package deal can be more cost-effective than paying to renew a license after one year.

In budget-conscious times, however, clients often don’thave the money to pay photographers more for a longerlicense. “If art buyers have to save their clients money,”says Clark, they’ll first try to cut back on the length of thelicense. “If we do limit anything, it’s the time,” rather thanthe number of uses, she notes.

“[Buyers] could maybe extract out of home [from theusage package] from time to time” if you need to save theclient money, says 180LA’s Zadok. “But you’re going to needyour point of sale, you’re going to need your retail, you’regoing to need your direct mail, you’re going to need yourprint, so those pieces are more difficult to extract.”

During negotiations, photographers and reps can pointout that many types of images, especially lifestyle images,look dated after a year or two, so a long or in-perpetuitylicense is unnecessary. Zadok says that product shots arethe only assets for which they’re looking for perpetual li-censes. “With lifestyle type of stuff, we’re steering moretowards two years and sometimes just annually, and [thelicense] doesn’t extend past that,” she says.

Clients to Photographers: We Want MoreClients want more usage, longer licenses and motion content to boot. How shouldphotogs respond? Buyers and reps weigh in on the negotiations. By Conor Risch


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HOW PHOTOGRAPHERS AND REPS ARENEGOTIATINGFaced with requests for unlimited usage and longer-termlicenses, photographers and reps must decide whether ornot to agree to an unlimited and/or long-term use pack-age upfront, which will bring in a higher fee off the bat,or to try to hold onto their rights in anticipation of mak-ing more money in a few years, if the client decides to pur-chase additional usages or extend the term of a license.

“If somebody is coming to me [during the estimatingprocess] and saying they have a limited budget but then[is also] asking for this menu of different usages, it alertsme to the fact that they don’t really know what they’redoing here,” Lhotsky says. “I try to educate them and say,‘Look, it’s going to be easier if you package all this usageupfront as opposed to trying to come back to me threeyears from now or two years from now, particularly if [theimage] involves models. The models are the people thatare going to soak the client.’”

Matt Nycz, a rep with Brite Productions, says that thesize of the job can factor into a photographer’s willingnessto grant unlimited usage for a certain term. If a photog-rapher is producing multiple shots over the course of sev-eral shoot days, they have more money coming in upfrontand can be more flexible with usage. “If it’s a one-off im-age, it’s harder for them to give up more rights,” Nycz says.

If a photographer is shooting a campaign for a brand-new product, Clark says, it’s likely the campaign willhave a long life and be seen in a lot of media. “So that’swhere you should try and hold onto or negotiate [usage]rights separately, or it’s a more expensive package up-front,” she suggests.

Just as they have to decide what usage they want to li-cense, photographers and reps also have to decide how tohandle requests for longer time periods for those licenses.

“In the last couple of years, everybody wants a ‘buyout’or unlimited usage, and every time there’s a conversationabout walking them backwards,” to convince the clientsthat a more limited license will suit their needs, saysMaren Levinson of Redeye Reps. “Most companies under-stand when you explain it to them and will say, ‘We real-ly only need two years or three years.’”

“What if we said some startup had full unlimited rightsand that small startup was sold to Microsoft?” Levinsonexplains. “Microsoft would have these images that wemade for practically nothing.”

Some pharmaceutical clients, Nycz says, opt for a five-year term rather than perpetuity, because images becomedated. Reps and photographers who are facing requestsfor in-perpetuity usage should remind clients of this, if theclient does not want to spend the money they should haveto spend to purchase long-term licenses. “The happy com-promise for [the client] is to go for a longer usage, know-ing that if they go for an unlimited usage mostphotographers are going to want to charge a higher rate.”

Nycz says that certain clients in the automotive andpharmaceutical industries ask for copyright “buyouts,”which means the image copyright transfers to the clientand the photographer no longer has any rights to sell or

use their image, even for self-promotion. “That’s anotherterm that gets thrown out and my lawyer goes crazy,” Ny-cz says. “A lot of times it’s either been directed by a lawyeror a client to get this, and I explain to them what thatmeans.” Nycz says clients soon realize they don’t need toown the copyright to protect their brand. He says, “In mostcases, exclusive, unlimited use in perpetuity covers whatthey want.”

MOTION COMMOTIONAs more and more photographers add motion content totheir capabilities, negotiations with clients now involve howto license and pay compensation for motion assets. The prob-lem is: No consensus yet exists in the market about howvideo created by photographers should be handled.

Some clients treat the production of motion content asa work-for-hire arrangement, which mimics the way dealsare structured for broadcast directors. Many buyers, whohave never worked in video before and now need to com-mission content for Web sites, are simply adding it on totheir still-image agreements.

“It’s a little bit of a Wild West area,” rep Gregg Lhotskysays. “Yes, some people are hip to that groove, and realizethat the motion should be a work for hire. Other timesphotographers are saying, ‘Hey I’ll shoot some motion foryou,’ in the hopes that [it] is going to give them some stuffthat they can put in their portfolio to turn into a real mo-tion job.”

Clark has only commissioned one motion piece and thedeal was work for hire. Zadok says she hasn’t yet hired aphotographer to create motion content, but that manyphotographers include a reel as part of their portfolio now.

“I think that the buyers and the sellers need to get onthe same page to understand that the motion is a wholeother set of assets that need to be paid for,” Lhotsky says.“It’s not in conjunction with the print, it’s a whole sepa-rate asset,” that clients need to license and pay for the us-age of separately, whether the photographer retains thecopyright or the deal is done work for hire.

SHOULD PHOTOGS AGREE TOADDITIONAL USAGE PRICES UPFRONT?Another question is, if a client wants to save money by lim-iting the term of their license or by pulling certain usagerights out of the agreement, should a photographer ne-gotiate prices for additional usages, years, territories andso forth upfront?

Buyers like to negotiate additional usage packages up-front to protect their clients. “You don’t want to put your-self in the position where you have no option down theroad but to pay a ridiculous amount of money,” JWT’s Clarksays. If, for instance, a print and online campaign does par-ticularly well over a period of a year and the client wantsto extend the license, the photographer may want tocharge more for the second year; if a rate was not pre-negotiated, then the client may have little choice but toagree to the photographer’s price. Clark says she may trusta photographer’s rep to maintain the same pricing for thesame image, but what if the photographer goes to a new


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agent who is much more hardnosed about extractingmore money?

Photographers who negotiate pricing for additionalyears and usages upfront save themselves the hassle ofnegotiating later on, but if a particular campaign becomespopular they can’t negotiate for more compensation ifterms have already been agreed upon.

“I’m not going to go out of my way to negotiate costsfor additional a la carte usage packages upfront,” Lhotskysays, but if a buyer asks to negotiate them, he will.

“From the photographer’s standpoint it’s good because[fees for additional usage and for extending the time ofthe license are] already set up, and if the client comesback and wants additional usage everyone’s agreed on aprice,” Nycz says. “Usually when it’s done that way, I’ve nothad a client say, ‘Oh we think this price is off.’ If they’veagreed to it, it’s usually in your [purchase order].”

Even if prices are agreed to upfront, reps warn, there isa chance that clients will want to offer a photographerless than what was negotiated. “At that point the photog-rapher shouldn’t do it,” Clark says. “They should stand theirground. When we put together an estimate and the clientsigns off on it, all of those pre-negotiated rates are inthere.”

Ease and protection of clients from copyright infringe-ment suits also factor into the rise in requests for unlim-ited usage. Clark says that if a client wants to get toospecific about usage upfront “it can turn into a big mess,”because each additional usage will have to be negotiatedas needs come up.

“If the campaign is in the marketplace and it’s doingwell and the clients wants to extend it, sure the rep andthe photographer have knowledge of that,” Zadok says. “Allthe more reason why on the upfront we’re trying to beproactive and secure those a la carte packages.”


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As reps, art buyers and producers note in the article “Howto Make the Most of Pre-Production Calls and Meetings (seepage 5),” listening carefully during the creative call with acampaign art director and during pre-estimate calls withthe agency’s art buyer is essential to successful bidding fora job.

The first call, known as the creative call, is a chance forthe art director to explain the layout and the purpose ofthe campaign. Photographers often ask their producers tobe on the creative call, but just as “a fly on the wall,” saysproducer Emily Vickers of Mason Vickers. After hearingwhat the art director wants, the photographer or produc-er can follow-up with questions—about scheduling, logis-tics, number of shots, budget limitations and more—withthe ad agency’s art buyer. During this follow-up, known asthe pre-estimate call, it’s important to get the detailed in-formation needed to complete a realistic estimate. It’s al-so the time to figure out whether the budget is realisticfor the job specifications.

Before you get on a call with a creative or art producer, it’suseful to prepare a list of questions you need to ask. Whileevery shoot is different, the reps and producers we talked tosay there are certain questions that they have to ask in orderto get the details they need to prepare a bid. Asking the rightquestions, they say, also helps them decide when they shouldjust walk away from a job with a budget that’s too small or aschedule that’s too tight to do the job right.

1. “WHAT’S YOUR VISION?” Alternatively: “What are youtrying to achieve with the creative?” This is the time aphotographer has to listen. As Liz Miller-Gershfeld, seniorart producer at Energy BBDO notes, during this conversa-tion, creatives will offer “clues” about the client’s priori-ties and what the agency wants in the ad. Producer Vickersnotes that she usually asks few questions at this point.“As this call may be the photographer's one (and only)chance to make a personal impression on the art director,he or she usually avoids getting bogged down in specifics,especially if they involve costs.”

2. “HOW LITERAL IS YOUR LAYOUT?” Freelance producerBerns Rothchild says she always asks that question to ex-plore flexibility about things like number of models, loca-tions, etc. Vickers typically asks if the client has alreadyapproved the layout or not. “Lately, the trend has been foragencies to get triple bids on their creative ideas in ad-vance of their initial client presentation, so they can pres-ent the entire package of creative and potential costs at asingle meeting.” That’s handy for the account team, she

says, “but it costs the producer a lot of unnecessary timein research if the client rejects outright the creative ideasand sends the agency back to the drawing board.”

3. “WHAT’S THE BUDGET?” Alternatively, Vickers suggestsasking, “Is there a pre-established budget?” She adds that artbuyers don’t like to give a straight answer, “But if the art buy-er does reveal a ballpark, it can be crucial to your photogra-pher's creative approach.” It can also reveal if the client wantsChampagne but has a budget for “Pabst Blue Ribbon andbeer nuts,” says Vickers. She adds, “Photographers shouldn’tbend over backwards to accommodate a ridiculously lowbudget. In the long run, it does no one any good to get thejob without enough money to produce it properly, so the firstround of estimates should be logical and realistic, with pro-visos and suggestions for trimming so the agency knows youare willing to work with them, up to a point.”

4. “WHAT’S THE USAGE?” Producer Steven Currie says af-ter the logistical and casting questions, this is one of themost important questions to ask. The agency’s answer“helps the rep or photographer determine fees structureand the producer negotiate talent fees, which can be twoof the largest line items in a budget.”

5. “HOW DO YOU WANT TO CAST THIS?” Rothchild saysshe asks for specifics, like, “skin tones, hair color, weight,economic background they are portraying.” Rep JohnSharpe of Sharpe and Associates notes that the more spe-cific the casting requirements, the more time a casting di-rector will need to spend looking for talent. Rothchild alsoasks how the agency wants talent evaluated: “Hair up?Smile? Full body? Left profile?”

6. “WHAT KIND OF LOCATION DO YOU WANT?” Thatmeans not only geographic location, but whether they wanta mansion or a suburban ranch house. Rothchild says, “I usu-ally do a file pull of available locations prior to the initial callso we have talking points during the call (‘What do you likeabout this location? What don't you like?’).”

7. “WHEN DO YOU NEED DELIVERY?” Here again, photog-raphers should be prepared to walk away from a job theycan’t fulfill. “All too often we're presented with an unreal-istic production schedule,” says Vickers. “Account teamsare waiting longer and longer to push for decisions fromtheir clients, leaving us to produce jobs within claustro-phobic timelines at a break-neck pace to meet their me-dia deadlines, which were established months ago.“

10 Questions to Ask Before You Bid on an Ad AssignmentProducers and reps note the all-important points to bring up during the creative and pre-estimate calls with an ad agency to ensure your estimate covers all the bases.


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8. “ARE THERE AGENCY OR CLIENT GUIDELINES TOFOLLOW?” Vickers always asks if the agency has a standardestimating form. She also asks, “Are there agency rules for travelreimbursement such as alcohol, laundry and hotel incidentals?[Are there] specific formats for billing and receipts?”

9. “WHO WILL PROVIDE GENERAL LIABILITY INSURANCEFOR THE JOB?” This includes providing certificates for lo-cations, rental houses or props. “Many agencies provide in-surance,” says Vickers. “If the photographer or producerindemnifies the job, they should bill for a percentage tocover their own rising premiums.“

10. “IS OUR PHOTOGRAPHER THE CREATIVE CHOICE?”This is tricky to ask, but it’s important to feel out the artdirector or art buyer before you invest time in estimatingand re-estimating a job. The fact is, ad agencies often askthree photographers to bid on a job at the request of aclient, even though the ad agency art director already hasa favorite photographer in mind. You want to know if youhave a realistic chance of being considered for the job.Vickers notes, “Even if they don't tell you or prevaricate,you can get an idea of whether you're the preferred sim-ply by the amount of time and attention the art buyer willgive you.” Here’s another tip off, says Energy BBDO’s Miller-Gershfeld: “If it’s a job the agency cares about…but the artdirector can’t make the call, [that means] the photogra-pher is not seriously being considered for the job.”


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