Edition 2012-2 Published by

C. Sharps Arms Co., Inc.

5-Shots with Carbine loads in a .45-70 at 25 yards

Manufacturers of A WORLD FAMOUS SERIES of Classic Metallic Cartridge Rifles and Classic Sights

P.O. Box 885, Big Timber, MT 59011-Pnone: 406-932-4353-Fax: 406-932-4443

2012 csharps@ttc-cmc.net * www.csharpsarms.com 2012

THE AMERICAN SHARPS SHOOTERS Publisher: C. Sharps Arms Co. Inc., John R. Schoffstall – President

Mike Nesbitt - - - Editor (miken54@aol.com)

NOTES FROM OUR READERS

Mike,

I printed out your newsletter this morning. It is VERY good. Not sure if it cost to receive it, but you can keep

me on the mailing list. I'm especially pleased to hear Jamison Brass is back. Jimmy, Custom

Ammunition, Riverview, Florida.

Jimmy, You’re on the list, enjoy the reading and thanks for your kind words. Shoot sharp, Mike

Hi Mike, We Would Like Copies Of The 2012-1 issue, Marc Jamison, Jamison Brass.

Marc, At this time The American Sharps Shooters is an email only publication. But feel free to make

copies just by printing it yourself. And feel just as free to forward it to folks who might be interested. That will

simply help spread the word. Shoot sharp, Mike

TAKIN’ IT “SLOW” WITH THE .45-70

By Mike Nesbitt

Most of the stories we get to read about Sharps rifles include long range shooting. Those stories either

include long range target shooting, especially in competition, or hunting such as the tales of the buffalo runners.

While those long range tales are very true, with most credits positively earned, the Sharps rifles are more than

right at home with shorter range shooting too. This might be considered “takin’ it slow” to some folks but it

really is the best place to start.

What really brought this subject to mind was a lightweight Model 1874 C. Sharps Arms Hartford

sporting rifle that recently came my way. This rifle was made two years ago but it was still in almost un-fired

condition. It has a 28” barrel which, to my un-calibrated eye, is thinner in contour than most so the rifle, with

its Hartford forearm and military style buttstock, weighs just an even 9 pounds. At that weight, this rifle is

approaching the weight of a carbine and while it is a very handy little rifle, it can quickly make the shooter look

for some more comfortable loads.

During the “on duty” days of the .45-70 there were some variations in the loading of the

cartridges. The first and the oldest was the .45-70-500 which was designated as the “rifle load.” Because that

powder and bullet combination can be considered “quite a blast” when fired from a carbine, a “carbine load”

using 55 grains of powder under a 405 grain bullet was also used. The carbine load might sound like it is pretty

melted down compared to the standard rifle load or the commercial load using the 405 grain bullet over 70

grains of powder but don’t cut it too short. Carbine loads can stand on their own performance while offering

comfortable shooting too.

Making the carbine loads is simple. For me this began with new

unfired brass which was run through the neck expander to do two things;

it bells the mouth of the cases just a bit to accept the cast bullets, and it

rounded the mouth of any cases which might have gotten squeezed a bit

out of round. Of course, fired brass needs to be treated the same way.

Then the cases are primed and ready for powder. Once the powder is

poured into the case no compression is required and you easily seat the

lubricated cast bullet down over the powder.

The bullets used for these carbine loads were Lyman’s #457124,

the old Ideal style of grooved bullets that were the standard 405 grain

slug for the .45-70. Some of the old style bullets did have fewer and

wider lube grooves but those don’t show once the bullets are loaded into

the cases. And the bullets for the carbine loads were seated rather

deeply, to insure that no air space was left in the case above the powder

charge and to make the carbine loads instantly identifiable to the

shooters. For my loads the bullets were seated just deep enough so the

mouth of the case could be slightly crimped over the “top” of the

forward driving band.

One of the powders I used for these loads was GOEX Fg and I still find favor for that powder with a lot

of my black powder cartridge loading. Yes, other powders can give higher levels of performance and we’ll look

at a couple of other loadings too. And, let me admit it, I still often use a small dab of smokeless powder down

next to the primer making a duplex load. For me that small dab of smokeless was five grains of #4759, a fairly

fast burning smokeless, and then the charge of 50 grains of Fg was poured in on top.

For added detail about the powder charges used here, the smokeless powder (when used) is measured by

weight. However, my charges of black powder are all measured by volume. That is one reason why I don’t

refer to my powder charges to the 1/10th of a grain, such as “55.0 grains.” My loads are simply not that exacting.

Should the need for more careful loadings come up, perhaps for long range shooting, I will quickly change.

That describes the load I was using for my first shots with this lightweight Model ’74. And even though

we are mainly discussing carbine loads for the .45/70 here, let me include some comments about this rifle’s

sights. This info might help some new shooters who are sighting-in.

The front sight was the standard blade, 7/16” in height. It took just one shot, fired at only 25 yards, to

prove that the sight was too tall. A minor problem, the sight blade was quickly filed down, a little at a time,

with a shot fired every now and then “along the way” just to check the progress. My first shot also showed that

the front sight needed to be drifted just a little to the left, because my shots were going to the left side of the

target.

Most of us are probably used to making windage adjustments with the rear sight but in this case the

standard open sight on the Sharps’ barrel is held on with a screw. Actually that screw holds the spring which

holds the sight’s “ladder” in either the up or down position. Some slight windage adjustments can be made with

the rear sight by moving it just a bit right or left in the dovetail. Even so, it is much easier to move the front

sight right or left. How actually easy it was became evident rather quickly when the front sight fell out of the

dovetail and on to the ground after just two taps with my hatchet and brass drift pin. That was fine, I’d much

rather find out about a loose dovetail at the range rather than to discover it on a hunt after the sight was missing.

And it is easy to “tighten” a dovetail by pounding down on the sides with the drift pin, leaving no marks on the

barrel. With that done, the front sight was re-installed and the good shooting continued.

With the rifle almost shooting center, a new target was posted, still at just 25 yards, and five shots were

poured into the bullseye. Those five shots were also chronographed and they produced only an average of 1030

feet per second. The group, however, was something to brag about. The first shot went just a bit high and the

next four shots all cut through the same hole. Yes, that was still at only 25 yards but if you haven’t “conquered”

the target at that short distance there is no point in trying longer ranges. I was very pleased.

Then some fun began. A piece of 8” diameter spruce log

that had been cut for firewood was placed on a stump about 35

yards away. With another cartridge in the chamber, the sights

were put in the middle of the end and the shot was fired. There

was something quite satisfying to watch that piece of firewood

do a double somersault beginning with a back flip as if was

blown off of the stump. It was satisfying enough that the piece

of firewood was put back on the stump and the whole thing was

done again. The two bullet holes in the end of this little log were

very close together and when the wood was split apart it was

found that the two bullets had hit inside the wood.

Penetration into the still green spruce was only a bit over

6” and that is not a good test of the .45’s penetration because, obviously, the piece of wood was not anchored at

all. The bullets would have penetrated deeper if the wood had not been allowed to move.

Now let me mention something very personal, I really favor

flat-topped rear open sights. My shooting with the lightweight Sharps

reminded me of that in a big way. Those “horns” on the buckhorn or

semi-buckhorn rear sights simply obscure the targets and you still use

the little “V” at the bottom for aiming. So, after just a few minutes

back in the shop and my rifle was quickly sporting a flat-top rear

sight. With the milled down sight re-blued it looks like it was made

that way. (And after the shooting was done with these carbine loads a

peep sight was added to this rifle.)

Changing or altering the rear sight meant that I needed to do

more shooting but before that was done some more loading had to be

addressed. To try other loads, the same bullet was loaded over 55 grains of GOEX Cartridge powder. At the

same time, with the loaded cartridges kept in separate holders, more were loaded with 55 grains of Swiss Fg.

Both of these loadings were done without using any smokeless powders, they were not duplex loadings. So,

with those newly loaded cartridges plus a couple of new targets, plus the chronograph, a trip to the shooting

bench was made.

This time the targets were posted at 50 yards and the first loads tried were the ones with the Cartridge

powder. Let me admit it, I was surprised at the velocity difference between Cartridge and the Fg/duplex

loadings. The Cartridge powder churned up an average velocity from the 28” barrel of 1150 fps. That’s a 120

fps advantage over the velocity of the GOEX Fg loads. And, to make things even better, those five shots

grouped very well, all within 1 ¾” center to center. My favorite carbine load for this light rifle suddenly

changed!

That group was just a bit low, with the highest

hit cutting into the X-ring, and a touch to the right. I’ll

be keeping that in mind and if a couple more groups go

into the same area some more filing to the front sight

will put the shots closer to center on the target. The

same goes for the windage and if this rifle keeps

sending its shot just to the right of center, a tap or two

on the front sight to move it a hair to the right should

put me right on line. Making these small sighting

“adjustments” are actually easier done than said.

Also, after that group was fired the bore was

checked for fouling. The Cartridge powder burns

rather cleanly. Even so, a “cleaning shot” was fired

using one of the Fg duplex loads before sitting down to

shoot the next group. For that shot another piece of

firewood was picked on and it back-flipped very nicely off of the top of the pile. Maybe I shouldn’t talk about

shots like that so freely because members of the “Friends of Firewood” might come down on me…

Next five more shots were fired at a 50 yard target from the bench but this time the #457124 bullets

were propelled by 55 grains of Swiss Fg powder. These had the highest average velocity of the 55 grain loads

tested and that velocity from the 28” barrel of the lightweight Sharps was 1187 fps. Let me also point out that

those shots grouped lower on the target than the shots fired with the Cartridge powder. Having a faster load

group a bit lower is a rather common thing, especially when operating in this velocity range. And that group

was wider than the group fired with the Cartridge powder.

Again the bore was checked for fouling and to my eye the Swiss powder did not burn as cleanly as the

Cartridge powder. Yes, I’m taking into consideration that the Cartridge powder was checked after only five

shots were fired through the rifle and while the bore was checked after shooting the Swiss powder for five shots,

the rifle had actually been fired eleven times. The “cleaning shot” that was taken should have helped clear the

bore a little but that barrel wasn’t clean when the shooting with the Swiss began. At this time I’m favoring the

Cartridge powder but I don’t want to give it too much credit.

But I will give plenty of credit to these slow carbine loads. They are a lot of fun to shoot and they’d be

quite acceptable for hunting within the distances where we’d feel comfortable for shooting at game with the

sights this rifle has. For now I believe I’ve found my load for this lightweight Sporting Rifle and it would

certainly perform just as well in a carbine or a Hunter’s Rifle. Carbine loads will actually perform as well if not

better in any of the heavier rifles too. There is nothing wrong with loads that send the bullets out a bit slower

than the full charges. They can actually be better if they help us make better hits.

OUTSTANDING PRODUCTS:

LEE’s 459-405-HB bullet mould

LEE bullet moulds as well as their other pieces of reloading equipment have been around for several

years and while their 405 grain .45 caliber hollow base bullet mould might not be the newest thing on the

market, it was new to me when I tried it. This bullet fits right in with my other story for this edition and I want

to tell you a short story about it.

First off, let me say some words about the mould itself. This is a single cavity mould making a good

looking .45 caliber bullet weighing about 405 grains. With the

metal my bullets are made from, which I refer to as “range

lead.” The weight is right at 400 grains. The bullet has three

lube grooves that are nice and wide so they’ll carry quite a bit

of lube. That’s just what we want for shooting with black

powder. The hollow base is roughly a quarter of an inch deep.

The mould, like other hollow base designs, is a nose pour and

that makes the flat nose at the front of the bullet almost a

necessity. This Lee mould is made from aluminum with a steel sprue cutter and, like all Lee moulds; it comes

complete with handles at a very fair price.

My experience with this bullet is slight as this is written but that will grow. I like this bullet and I’ll be

using it quite a bit more.

For a first try, a handful of them were loaded in .45-70 brass using 55 grains of Cartridge powder.

Those loads were made with measured powder charges, not weighed. And the bullets were sized to .457” and

lubed with BCR Lube in a stick. For one reason or another, these loads chronographed about 45 feet per second

slower than the same loading with Lyman’s #457124. Maybe this bullet carries enough lube to create less

pressure on the bore. (That’s a wild guess!)

The target for those ten shots was a bit of a disappointment but please let me explain. Five shots were

fired from the bench at a target posted on the 50 yard line and that group looked great. Except for one shot,

which might have been the first shot from a clean barrel, the group was all in the 10-ring. That group scored

49X and I was very pleased.

But I wanted to show a 10-shot group so another five shots were poured into the same target. That’s

where some disappointment comes into this tale. Three of those five shots went low, into the 9 and 8 rings. In

addition to that, the two lowest velocities recorded where part of those five shots.

While sizing those bullets, just to add all of the details,

some lube was allowed to get into the hollow bases of a couple

of the bullets before they were loaded in the cases. My thought

was that it shouldn’t make any difference. But the low recorded

velocities made me think again.

With the goal of a tighter group in mind, another batch

of 10 rounds was loaded. This time care was taken to keep any

lube out of the base of the bullets. Also, powder charges for

this batch were weighed for each of the cartridges. That powder

charge was 57.0 grains of Cartridge (adding just a little more

bounce to the ounce). Then this new batch of ammo along with

the rifle and chronograph went back to the range.

Again a target was posted at 50 yards and again the

target was checked after five shots. That group was very good, measuring less than 1 ½” inches and scoring

(again) a 49X. While thoughts did cross my mind about quitting right there, another five shots were poured into

this target too. Something in the world had changed between shooting the first five shots and the second string

of five. You can see the two separate groups.

What changed in the world, I really don’t

know. It could be that the sun moved enough to

put the target in sunlight when it had been in

shade for the first group of five. Or maybe it is

the fact that my eyes were simply a few minutes

older when they sighted for the second string of

five shots. I don’t know why that second group is

lower than the first because I did expect them to

all go toward the same place.

And to add to this mystery just a bit, the

speeds with the weighed 57.0 grains of Cartridge

powder averaged just two feet per second slower

than the speeds with the volume measured 55

grains of the same powder. The only thing that

actually reflects is how such small samples don’t

tell the complete tale. And the extreme spread of

velocities was practically the same. This suggests that the lube in the hollow base of some of the bullets used

on the first target didn’t make any difference.

Now, back to the bullets and the Lee mould, I’ll be using these bullets a lot more and I do believe they

will continue to be used in the carbine loads, using the 55 grain powder charge. There is a lot that to like about

this bullet and the mould. To find out more about these or Lee’s other bullet moulds or reloading gear, visit

their website at www.leeprecision.com. One more thing I like about the Lee moulds is the fact that they are

made in the U.S.A. and they’re proud enough to say so! --- Mike Nesbitt

C. Sharps Arms “Old Reliable” Belt Buckle

Let me personally tell you how much I like my “Old Reliable” belt buckle from C. Sharps Arms. I was

one of the first to get one of these back in 1983 and I’ve been wearing it almost every day ever since then.

While wearing it I’ve received more than a few compliments and comments, often a simple exclamation saying,

“Wow, that’s quite a belt buckle!”

Please keep in mind, the buckle you see pictured

here is nearly thirty years old. So, it should look just a

little more aged than a new one. The new buckles are

offered with either silver or bronze finishes. If you want

one to look like mine you had better get a bronze one and

do it right away. Get started as soon as you can because

it will take plenty of wearing before yours will look like

it is thirty years old…

The art displayed on the face of the buckle is

“The Scout and the Tenderfoot” from the painting by

Ralph Heinz and the scout is holding a classic Model

1874 Sharps rifle with a crescent buttplate. The detail

shown in the painting and on the belt buckle is very

pleasing. I like my “Old Reliable” belt buckle well enough to wear it for another thirty years if I have that

much time…

The “Old Reliable” belt buckles are for sale at $29.50 plus postage from C. Sharps Arms. Just check in

at www.csharpsarms.com or call 406-932-4353 and let them know if you want silver or bronze.

--- Mike Nesbitt

BLACK DAWGE Black Powder Ammo

Black Dawge Cartridge ammunition, now a division of Powder, Inc. (a prime place to get black powder),

is loaded with premium GOEX powders and genuine Black Dawge Cartridge, two groove bullets, lubricated with

SPG. Their line of new ammunition loaded with black powder is mainly for the Cowboy Action shooters but they

do include some rifle calibers as well. The rifle calibers I’m referring too are all .45 caliber and they are; the

.45-60 (with Jamison brass) and the .45-70 plus .45-90

cartridges (with Starline brass).

Yes, the .32-20, 38-40, and 44-40 are all rifle

calibers too but those I’ll put into a rifle/revolver class

for now. Black Dawge also provides black powder

loads for the .357 and .44 Magnums but those are

just a bit beyond our current subject line.

And in Black Dawge’s line-up of .45-70 loads,

ranging from bullets weighing from 350 to 500 grains,

they include a .45-70 Carbine load. This cartridge is

loaded with a 405 grain flat-point bullet, which makes it

look like it would be right at home in a lever action rifle.

Those bullets are loaded over 55 grains of powder

and with this we have an over-the-counter carbine load.

In order to give some of this ammo a good try, my buddy Bob DeLisle joined me at the range where

we tried the Black Dawge carbine loads in three different rifles. Those rifle were; a Winchester 1886 Extra

Lightweight with a 22” barrel, my light ’74 C. Sharps Arms rifle with

the 28” barrel, and Bob’s heavier ’74 Sharps with a 32” barrel. With

those guns we think we got a pretty good look at these carbine loads.

The best group was actually fired with the 1886 Winchester

(which was equipped with a Lyman 66 receiver sight) and the carbine

loads from that rifle had an average velocity of 1138 fps. The groups

from the two Sharps rifles certainly weren’t bad, just not as tight as the

Winchester’s, and the recorded velocities from those two rifles were;

1161 fps from the 28” barrel and 1177 fps from the 33” barrel. The

velocity figures shown are the averages of five shots with each rifle.

The velocity recorded from my 28” barreled rifle is very close to

what I’ve gotten with the carbine Loads that were made up with bullet

#457124 and that makes me guess Black Dawge is using 55 grains of

GOEX Cartridge powder.

To conclude this short report on the Black Dawge carbine loads,

let me say that I would not hesitate to use them again. They performed

in a very honorable manner and that makes them highly

recommendable. To find out more about the Black Dawge Cartridges or

to place an order, simply hop on the web and go to their website at

www.blackdawgecartridge.com. Their .45-70 carbine loads are priced at

$31.25 per box of 20. --- Mike Nesbitt

“We have four boxes with which to defend our freedom: The soap box, The ballot box, The jury box;

And the cartridge box.” -- Sen. Larry McDonald