' 1,

. HousE OF REPRESENTATIVES '

SEVENTY-SEVENTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY

0NE HUNDRED FORTY-NINTH LEGISLATIVE DAY

'JUNE l3, 1972

lliOO O'CLOCK A.M. .

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j' ITHE HONORABLE W. ROBERT BLAIR, SPEAKER

. A '

IN THE CHAIR' !

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. 1.

A roll call for attendance was taken and indicated that

a1l were present with the exception of the following:

Representative James Y . Carter - illness;

Representative J. Horace Gardner - death;

Representative Henry J. Klosak - illness;

Representative Michael H. McDermott - illness;

Representative Edward Shaw - 'death .

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Doorkeeper: ''A11 who are not entitled to this House Chamber,

will you please retire to the Gailery? Thank you-''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The Doorkeeper will see that those per-

sons not entitl. ed .to the floor will be removed therefrom.

The invocation this morning will be by Dr. Johnson.''

Dr. John Johnscn: ''We pray. Almighty Lord of heaven and earth

we thank you first of a11 for permitting.us to bring our

requests before you. Give us the knowledge wc ask now to

lead our lives well. Help us to know our ignorance that we

may be teachable. Help us to know our weaknesses that we ma

be on guard against temptation. Help us to know cur strengt s .

that we may use fully all of those gift and talents which yo

have given us. Help us to knok you as the Creator and the

Preserver of all things, that we may work here to do your

will on earth. Help us to know your mercy so that we may

show 'mercy to a1l with whom wè come in contact. Help us

to know your love that we may be moved to demonstrate kind-

ness in all we undertake. We pray for such knowledge and

strength. this day and this week, because we eonfess you to

be the source of every good and perfect gift. Amena''

Hcn. W. Rcbert Blair: ''Roll Call for atténdance. Messagesfrom the Senate .''

Fredric B. Selcke: '.A Message from the Senate by Mr. Wright,

Secretary. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform the House

of Representatives that the Senate has refused to recede

from their Amendments to a Bill of the following title:

House Bill 3682. I am further directed to inform the House

D RG '. . k' s ! A t r,a, .l:'t : .: q' J :. . ? c - -r'7> 7- ï G E N E R A L, A S S E M B L Y' j' kE''-tr., .... c..Aytà svaxs os luulso,sq.ft,zv:....7 sowss o. nseasscavav,vssYh11'fl!O ' ?ù*** ''

, ' -: '. - 3

CcmFerence to consist of five Members from each House' to.%. r z' ' .'

c'oqstder the differences of the two Houses. Action taken by

the Senate, June 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Ah-.

Mr. Speaker - 1. am directed to inform the House of Repre-

sentatives that the Senate has refused to recede from their

Amendments to a Bill of the following title: House Bill 354 .

And, I am further directed to inform the House of Representa

Iti 'es that the Senate requests a Committee of Conference.

Ah.. action taken by the Senate, June 7, 1972. Kenneth

Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker I am directed to inform

the House of Representatives that the Senate has refused to

'recede from their Amendments to a Bill of the following

title: House Bill 3190. And, *1 am fprther directed to in-

form the House of Representatives that the senate àequests

a Committee of Conference. Action taken by the Senate,

June 7, 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker -

am directed to inform the House of .Representatives that the

Senate has refused to recede from their Amendments to a Bill'

of tbe followinq title: House Bill 2416. And, I am further

directed to inform the House of Representatives that the

Senate requests a Committee of Conference. Action taken by

the Senate, June 7': 1972. Kenneth Wrighte Secretary. Mr.

Speaker - I am directed to inform the House of Representativ s

that the Senate has refused to recede from their Amendments

to a Bill of *lye following title: Hcuse Bill 2916 . And, I

am further directed to infokm the House 0/ Representatives, that the Senato requests a Committee of Conference. Action

-. Dr a. .p * : g. .. ..2 ' 1 ''..' '/ ) J -Rnn % X . u- f '. p) N E R A L. A S S E M B t. Y' , , Ne -? .' '( $, 5 . a./ ' ; ). ë' l - s 'r A. 'r e: o r r , u u 1 s o j s% . . . . . -h ' . . . '

'

4taken by the Senate, June 7, 1972. Kenpeth Wright, Secre-

tary. A Messages from the Senate by Mr. Wright, Secretary.

Mr. Speakera- I am directed to inform the House of Repre-

sentatives that tho Senate has concurred with the House inthe adoption of the following Joint Resoluticn: House JointResolution 140. Together with the following Amendment thereto in the adoption of which I am instrueted to ask concurren eof the House. Concurred in by the Senate

, as amended, June '8., 1972. Kenneth Wright, Secretary. Mr. Speaker - I am

direeted to inform the House of Representatives that thesenate has passed Bills cf the following title in the passagof whic'h I am instructed to ask ccncurrence of the House:

Senate Bills 1430, ah . . Senate Bill 1430, 1433, 1511, 1535,1542, 1581. Passed the Senate, June 8, 1972. Kenneth Wrigh .Secretary. Ah.. Mr. Speaker - I am directed to inform the

House OE Representatives that %he Senate has passed Bills ofthe following title in the passaée of which I am instructed

to ask concurrence of the House: Senate Bill 1319, 1326,

1372, 13894-1509, 1548, 1555, 155G . Passed by the SenateyJune 8, 1972. Kenneth Wright. Secretary. Ah. . .

''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Committee Reports.''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Xh. . Mr. Regner. from the Committee on

Appropriations, to which Sehate Bills 1325, 1360, 1463 and

1552 were referred, reported the same bdck with the recommen a-

tion that the Bills do pass. Mr. Regner, from Appropriationa,to whcih Senate Bills 970

, 1327 and 1562 wer'e referred, re-ported the same back witi Amendments thereto, with the recommendation that the Amendments be adopted and that the Bills,

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as amended. do pass. Mr. Regner, from the Committee on

Appropriations, to which House Bill 3763 was referred, re-

. ported the same back with Amendments theretoe with the

recommendation that the Amendments be adopted and that the '

Bill, as amended. do pass.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''House Bills Second Reading . House Bill

4102 . ''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4102, a Bill for an Act to pro-

vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Depart-

ment of Public Hea1th. Second Readfng of the Bill. Two

Committee Amendments. Committee Amendment No. 1, amend Hous

Bill 4102 on Page 1, Line l4, by deleting '992,100' and in-

serting in lieu thereof '967 100'7 andsoforth.''ê

'

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah. . Lee, Mr. Shapir .''

D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, this is an Agreed Amendment which reduces the

appropriation by $107,500. And ah..# I would ah. . urge the

approval of the House for Amendment No. 1, to House Bill

4102.',

Hon. W. Robert Blair: nAny further discussion? The question'i

on the adoption of Committee Amendment No. Al1 those in

favor say 'aye' opposed 'no' the 'pyes' have it and the# #'

Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Ah.. Committee Amendment No. 2, amend Hous

Bill 4102 on Page Line 3, by striking 'l,323eOO0' and in-

serting in lieu thereof: 13,000,000'.1.

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The ah.. gentleman from ah . . Lee,

q vw-nl * ' A ciw.%% z zz.' ,$ '>. 4 e'i'?'n : G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yl 62:

..-.- ' N Jk . . ' . :; s'r-'rx oe 1 uul-ols

. (.vy ? n'. ' ' z sj o w s c o s s c e R c s s sr 'r A. v 1 v c s .

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6.shapiro.''

D. C. shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, this Amendment was not offered ah. . by Myself. Ah..

I am opposed, actually, to the Amendment ah . . more even

though it does increase grants to local health departments.

I feel that the integrity of the Bill ah. . does have to be

maintained.''

Hon. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Lechowicz-'T. S. Lechowicz: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentleme

of the House, this was ah . . . this Amendment increasing the

qrants ah.. for various Counties from one million and three

to three million d6llars was adopted in the House Appropria-

tions Committee after complete justificaticn for the Amend-

ment was given by Representative Hart to the Approprivtions

committee. This is his ah ... Amendment to the Bill. And,'it

was carried, thinke by fifteen. . . sixteen to nine, if my .

memory serves me correctly. And, I move for the adoption of

Amendment No. 2, .to this Bill..''ae

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Purther discussion? The gentleman from

Franklin, ah.. Mr. Hart.''

R. 0. Hart: 'eAh. ves. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, ah.. this Amendment is a very important Amendment

to ah.. to the Members here. And, I wish .-.. ah.. we could

pay a little bit of attention to it . think, most of you

have a letter on your desk this morning from the Public Heal hand you've probably been contacted by Public Health Officialin your various Districts! But ah.m, over the last few

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years, the amount of local grants for Public Healthm.e: I

mean, grants to the Local Public Health Units has decreased,

Ande really ah.o, in many inst#nces, the ah.. grants to the

Local Public Hqa1th Departments are where the people get

most of their services. 'rhis Amendment ah. . ah.. was adopte

in the Appropriations Committee. It would ah.. increase

the amount of grant to Local Public Health Units ah. . up to

three million dollars. It would ah.. more than double it .

the present time, the level is ah . . less than $.11 percapita. I think, that this Amendment should be adopted

. Ithas much support. And, know that it would... it would ah . .

be ah.. well thouqht in your Districts if you would acceptthis increase ah. . for Public.... Local Public Health Grm ts

.

And, I would appreciate the support of the House ih theadoption of khis Amendment

-''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The ah .. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Col-'lins . ''

Pt Wu collins: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen ofthe House, Mah. . this Amendment is truly unique

. Ah.. thisis the first time I've seen an Amendment offered to an Appropriation Bill where the Department says'they not only don't ant

i't, but they donlt'need it. I don't see any justificationfor putting any money into ah. . into. Ulis budget when the

Director of the Department and his Assistants ah. . ah.. sat

before us, tokd us they didn't want didn't know how theywould administer it and truly did not need it

. I think, thaah.. welro really overstepping our bounds now when

we not

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8.' only are restoring cuts in a budget, but here we're going

beyond.the budget in saying that you have to take money that

you don't need and don't want. Ah.. I urge the ah . . defeat

of this Amendment.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The ah.. gentleman from ah . . ah.. Cook.

Mr. Kosinski.''

R. J. Kosinski: ''Mr. Speaker and Gentlemen.. . Ladies and Gentl -

men of the House, this seems somewhat redundant in that we

went through this in Appropriations Committee. And, this

Amehdment did pass out, For clarification to the people of

this Assembly who are not part of that Appropriations Commit

tee, lee me indicate that Public Health, on a local level,' on a County level, has been subsidized in the past through '

the individual Counties. With these Counties being s'queezed

by increased costs, Public Health on a local level is su/fer

ing. The Appropriations Cbmmittee has been successful in .

pulling millions and millions of dollars out of. . out of

appropriations in this last year. It's project has' been oneax '

of austerity. Yet, in this instance, this unique 'situation

of adding to a ku dget is absolutely essential for Public I

Hea1th at a local level. While ah... P.W. indicated that the

Director was not in a position to accept this increase, the

. reason is obvious. He's contented to conform with the Burea

of the Budget's recommendation. Howqver, we people, who comfrom Counties that are sufferinge know how important Public

Hea1th is at that level, how essentiil it is to give the

public this service. This is a most imperative, I repeat, '

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a most imperative addition to this Bill. It will help a11

of us, the poor Counties. especially. encourage your vote

for.this Amendment-''

Hon. w. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Regner-'''

J Reqner: ''Just in ah.. response to thé last speaker. thisD . .

Amendment did get adopted in Appropriations Committee. Bute

for the information of the Members of the General Assembly,it was not ah.. by unanimous vote. I forget the ah.. exact

total. But ah-., there were a few votes ah. . difference

that did pass it out but it was not a unanimous vote. It

was not an Agreed Amendment with the Department. And ah..,

as Representative rollins statea, the ah . . Department was

in opposition to this Amendment. And, I would urge a 'no'

vote on it.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: uThe gentleman from Cook. Mr. B. B.' Wolf .1'

B. Wclfe: ''Ah.. Mr. 'Speakçr'and Ladiês and Gentlemdn of the

House, I rise in support of this Amendment as it is a State

commitment to reimburse Local Units of Government in the

areas of Pûblic Health. And, think, the Amendment reflect

' what the House has already done in this area by ah. . sending

two Bills ah.. ah.. to th'e Senqte ah. . whieh ah.. Bills have

nöt been acted on by the Senate . And, I'm sure that ah . . ah..

this Amendment will ah.. replace the ah. . lo<t income which

ah.. was voted out of this House ah .. previously.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr. Richa dCarter.''

R. Ak Carter: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladips and Gentlemen of

.. qq . *'tk A A' t,a. .';.% jj , $j.k;yf : '. J'-D> ;r G E N E It A L. A S S E M B L Y; .ë 7.:: ' c , . -btb, nc.J.

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the House; I rise in support of this ah.. Amendment. We..

We.. We discussed this ahr. addition pro and con and ah.. ...

we went to great lengths to find out we had ah.. some excel-

lent testimony E. E. Dimmons who indicated that these monie

were very very necessary to this program. And. after a loùg

long debate, we decided that this Amendment was a very neces

sary one. And, while it was not unanimous, it was decided,

on a majority vote, that thi's addition should be made. So,

i i we ah we should ah.. have a votI feel that, at th s t me, ..

on it and ah.. ah.. settle this question once and for a11..'

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Bocne, Mr. Cunning-

ham.''

Cunningham: ''Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question.d'

H W Robert Blair: nA1l those ih favor say 'aye' opfosedOn. . yI l the 'ayes' have it ahd the previous question has beinno ,

. moved. The gentleman from Franklin, Mr. Hart, ah.. to close.n

R. 0. Hart: ''Ah.. very briefly. to close, Mr. Speaker. Ah..,

I thinke the Body here has been misinformed when it stated' Athat the Director opposed this Amendment. The Director did

not support it because, I bc ieve, he has a moral obligation

to support his budget as it comes out of the Budget Committe .

But, there isn't any doubt ah.. from his testimony and from

ah.. evidence and from what we all know that ah.. he would

be able to use some more money: at the local level, for Publ'c

Health. Now, the only alternative to ah.. increase it at th

local level for Public Hea1th is an i'ncrease in local taxes.

And, know that we a11 oppose that. 'So, it's ah.. the bur-

ll'jr *'.>'4 .. ; '-'-> fj . G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y.

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' ll.

den of thè State, I think, to come in and upgrade and imple-

ment the programs that are held on a local level. I again' say, this Amendment is very important in every District in

the State. And, I know that it has much support throughout'

the State of Illinois. And, I would ask for your support.

And, I would like to have a Roll Call vote, Mr. Speaker-''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. .fhe question is on the

adoption of Amendment No. All those in favor will vote

'ayel, and the opposed 'no'. Have all Qoted who wished?

The Clerk will take the record. On this'questiope there are

91 'Ayes' and 31 'Nays' and the Amendment ah.. is adopted.

Are there further Amendments?''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. Lechowicz, amend House

Bill 41.....,

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Lechowicz.''

T. S. Lechowicz: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentle-

men of the Hcuse, Amendment No. 3 is an Amendment that was

o/fered in Committee. And, the vote was twelve to twelve

in the Appropriations Committee. What it does is appropriat

a million and a half dollars, one million, five hundred

thousand dollars to ah.. Public Health for the Chicago

Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium. .This House, in its wisdo

in 1971, passed a Bill for this amount of money. It was

Representative B. B. Wolfe's Bill for the Tuberculosis Sani-

tarium. When it went into the Senate, they said that this

money should be in Public Health. This is exactly what

this Amendment does. Andy move for its adoption-''

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l2.

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? The gentleman frcm Lee,

Mr. Shapiro.''

D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker: Ladies and Gentlemen of the '

Housey I rise in opposition ah.. to this Amendment. This is

an Amendment that was defeated in the House Committee. And,

the Department ah.. of Public Health oppcsed the Amendment.

Now, the Department stated, at the time and in subsequent

conversations concerning this Amendment, that at no time

during the year has the Department been made aware of the

need of any additional funds for the Municipal Tuberculosis

Sanitarium of Chicago. Not only is the incidence of tubercu

losis decreasing, but new methods of treatment and out-patie t

are have substantially reduced the stay of patients at thiscIi . *

particular sanitarium. Now, if you will recall, in the past

the Chicago State Tuberculosis Sanitarium, which was by far

a more modern Institution with a much better and highly

sophisticated staff, is no longer taking care of tuberculosi

patients. At one time, Chicago state offered to take over..M

all of the tuberculosis patients of the Chicago Municipal

Sand and this was turned down by the City of Chicago. It

must be assumed, therefore, that the Municipal TB Sand has

sufficient funds to be able to take care oE themselves. Fur

ther more. think, if you'll recall, as recently as May

29th, 1970, House Bill 36.99 was passqd which allowed the

Chicago TB Sand to increase its levy for tuberculcsis from

seven and a half to nine million dollars. As I see

Ladies and Gentlemen of.the House, thère is no need for this

h'', ! - 'mv. ' , c s N jï R A j. A s s p: M B 1, v? h!' . .

;, kf z , ,.. ù) svavs os j t-u,x o,sç t , . . ). (r ; x.: . .,, jj o jr a s ea c sc oj.r s.r , v c s

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l3.

Amendment. Ik'!.' is' obvious that they éhould have sufficient

funds to see tsgemselves through the year. Ahd, I would urge

everyone to vfte against the adoption of this Amendment.''

Rep. Arthur A. Tel'cser: ''The gentleman from Cook e Representa-

tive B. B. WoYxpe.ll

, : .'B. B. Wolfe: 'AIk.. tvm . Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, rise in ah.. support of this' Amendment. And:I

would like to ,i'e11 the House that we passed, in this House,

two years ago.'r.'.okt',Bills, one to provide the increased levy

within the ah.'.' Ca.ty of Chicago to the extent of a million

and a .half dolb'aru. At that time, there was in little of

excess three million dollar deficit. We also passed the

State Support Bill because, under our State Statutes, we're

required to reimbur/e for deficiencies. This has nc been

done for the last five or six years. And: traditionally,

this House has, in every Sessiop except for the last three,

supported the deflciency measure. 'Now, what happened was

that, although the peg levy was passed, the other Bill was.M .

tabled or defeated in the Senate so that we had an increase

in taxes to prdvide some of the funds whieh are required

k 'in the operatien of the Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium.! .

'Now, with respect to th'e need, at the present timey the Sani

tarium is in excess of over two milfiop dollars ah.. deficie cy,two million, t4zo Lundred thousand... two hundred and nine

thousand dollarse' Ah.. the hundred and fifty ah... The

ope million, five hundred thousand dollars, provided by this

Amendment, will n(8L even cover the present deficiency. Nowe

s% (:7F(j*:. A ' , l.. ., .êb >' îj 47 h$ ' J(/ x-..J''7'> 1t$ , 'lï N E R A L A S S E M B L YI ; sl .'?xJ. J ; / > -. ) . sv x v. c o e d u u I ,q o I s. - .( . . ? -=. ' . ' . I a c s s; s v w v , w s s. . s ou sc o v a ce4l, b.%*.... Z 2% #f * '

.

14

the ah.. sanitarium is presently operating with more than

thirty thousand out-patients every year. So, the need is

still present. Now. I have letters from the ah . . Municipal

Tuberculosis ah.. Organization in ah. . Cook,county ah.. sup-

porting the ah.. the thrust of this measure. The ah.. Insti

tution ah.. presently ah. . has approximately seven to eight

thousand in-patients a year. So, by no means, have we ah. .

cured the problem but we are .still treating this dread di-

sease on a more scientific basis and on a basis in the Chica o

Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium of the most minimum costin the Country for operating this kind of a Institution orany Hospital Institution. Now, I think, that with the ah ..

ah.. merit ah.. of the situation and the fact that we did ah .pass the ah.. Peg bevy Bill

, that we ought to meet the'qommi -

ments of this State with referenee to ah. . deficiencies.

And, that every Member of this House ought to support ah..this Amendment because the Cook

. . . the Sanitarium is servici gthe Area of Cook .. . of Chicago .and of Cook County ah . . inthe manner of.. of medical caree

''

' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Does

the gentleman wish to close the debate? The gentleman from

cooi, Representative collins-''

P. W. Collins: ''Yes, Mr . Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen ofthe House, the last Amendment

, that we just adopted, as Isaid earlier and as other speakers stated

, was needless and

was rejected by the Department. And. this one is even moreridiculous, not only to the Department state that they didn''

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l5.

want itv but this House ah... this Legislature took this ver

item out two years ago and allowed Chicago to raise their

. levy to support ah.. this Institution. Furthermore, Chidago

wasn't even interested enough in this ah.. Amendment to send

a representative for the Ap/topriations Committee asking

for this money. don't know who thought this up, but it

wasn't Chicago and it wasn't the Department. Again, we're

saying, here's mohey you donlt need and don't want. I'thinkiiI it's ridiculous that we should ah . . add to Apprcpriation Bil sI

in such a hazard manner. ' And, aéain, wouM urge the ah..

the defeat of this Amendment-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? If not, ..

The gentleman from Cook, Representative Moore,-wish to. close ''

D A Moore: ''Yes, Mr. Speaker, I move the previous questidn.n

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The previous question has been moved.

All thos.e in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no'

the 'ayes' have it and the gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Lechowicz, to close the debate.''..A

T. S. Lechowicz: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentle-

men of the House, in regards to the last speaker, he's com-

pletely in error because the Municipal Tuferculosis Sanitari m

provided the necessary justification for this expenditure.

Dr. Yoder, in the Committee, stated that no one contacted

him. I told him this was a fiscal obligation from fiscal

year 1971. I gave him a copy of the letter, at that time,

which was sent to the Department. And, in turn, I gave him

a copy of the letter that substantiated these costs to me to

... q.. $'.( A .k ,,.... ) '% lj . '? '

,'cv'....6 -> y ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yit Vç . t'e. f -vj !,) s v ,q v e: o s 1 u k. , ,. o I s.('' ? n''- ' ' -N: t . ,. H ou s u o er n t( I.n E sc :4 'r A. 'r 1 v cs

. .4' 1 -:cI. . , s%ï .

16 .

day. Not only did I give it to Dr. Yoder, I also gave it to

the Chief Sponsor of the bill in complete courtesy. But,

basically, this is ah.. a one million. five hundred thousand

. dollar deficit in the Chicago Municipal Tuberculosis Sani-

tarium resulted because the State discontinued the fiscal '

1971 the line item appropriations for the... for these reaso s.

I hope that this House adopts this Amendment to this Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The kuestion ise 'shall Amendment

No. 3, to House Bill 4102 be adopted?'. All those in favor

signify by saying 'aye'. Does the gentleman wish a Roll Ca1 ?

All those in favor signify by voting 'aye'e the opposed by

voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the mcord.

On this question, there are 76 'Ayes' 59 'Nays' and Amend-

ment No. 3, to House Bill 4102 was adopted. Are there fur-

ther Amendments? Third Réading. House Bill 4133..'

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4133, a Bill for an Act to auth r-

ize the Director of the Department of Transportation to make

a feasibility study and report with respect to locations ofA

the construction of bridges across the Mississippi River.

Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?

Third Reading. House Bill 4295.'1

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4295. a Bill for an Act in rela

tson to the payment of grants to enable the elderly to acqui e

and retais private housing and make an appropriation in conn c-

tion therewith. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee

Amendments.''tI

.' ? b. ..( -'> Vrh G E N E 11 A L A S S E M 11 L Yli Q '-k'; ; rx)')) svxvs os Iuujxols. o. . .. ' .(j)/J: - ,, . os s ceasscsjvxv 1 v cs. > u o kl 5 E

. 7 q é7- .

l7.

Rep. .qathur A..lpelcser: ''Are there Amehdments from the floor?

Thlrd Reading- Representative Mann, do you seek recogni....

rnlrd Reading. House Bill 4478.'1

Fredriç B. Selckqi ''House Bill 4478, a Bill for an Act to=a..< . . .

amxn' d and resr:ction Section 3 and to amend Section 13 of and

to add SectiG); 7.l to 'The Illinois Industrial Development

Aûthority Act'. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee

AlpîuAdments . ''

Rep . Ytu-thur Tccicser : ''Are there Amendments f rom the f loor?

Third Reading. House Bill 4606 . ''

Fredric B. Selcko': ''House Bill 4606. a Bill for an Act to

authorize the 'Department of Transportation to construct

channel and other improvements in and along Pox River in

South Elgin. Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee

Amendments.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?

Third Reading.. House Bill 4636 .1.

FredHic B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4636, a Bill for an Act to makeA '

an appropriation to provide for the ordinary and èontingent

expenses of th- Commission created by an Act to creake a

Commission to survey and study problems pertaining to water-

ways, drainage, fluid, andsoforth. .second Reading of the

Bi1l. No Committee Amendments.''

.Rep. Arthur A. Te7cser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?

Third Reading. House Bill 4661.''

Fredric B. Selckez ''House .Bill 4661, a Bill for an Act to amen

section 6 of tbe 'Illinois Horse Racing Act'. Second Readin

'Xux . * - - '; ZJ . '-=. - 7.hx . . / p . v , : ' f l # . N E R A ta A s s E M B L Yr. ' . . J .1; t 1 ' s . . .*/ .. . . ST A Y E': O F 1 L t. ' ê; Ch ' S' & *1 , J' ' :1 o u s c o F' Iv E P' Ia c s e: :4 T n. 'r I v E7 s'V. . %.x*' # (; ' .. .

l8.

of the Bill. One Committee Amendment. Ah . . amend House

Bill 4661 by adding after Line on Page the fo'llowing:

'Section This Act takes effect July 1. 1972:.'61 .

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Kane, Representa-

tive Waddell.''

R. B. Waddell: ''Move adoption of the Amendment.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcsqr: ''Is there any discussion? If not, the

gentleman offers to move the adoption of Amendment No. 1.

to House Bill 4661. All in favor of the adoption signify

by saying 'aye'. the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted.

Are there further Amendments? House Bill 4667..'

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4667, a Bill for an Act to make

an appropriation to the Secretary of State. Second Reading

of the Bill. No Committee Apendments-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the flobr?

Third Reading. House Bill 4668.'.

Fredric B. Selcke: nHouse Bill 4668e a Bill for an Act to make

an appropriation to the State Scholarship Commissibn. Secon

MReading oè the Bill. No Committee Amendments- ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?

Third Reading. House Bill 4676.''

Fredric Selcke: ''House Bill 4676, a Bill for an Act to make

an appropriation for the ordinary and contingent expenses

of the Joint Legislative çommission on Economic Advisors.

Second Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?

Third Reading. Senate Bills First Reading. Senate Bill l33 .''

. s Ar ' '..'' x v. j; * f v. ': A.N .y N' ? î.b, ;( :-,n> ek ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y' i'- ''ç--,y.t ) ,'.r'. ) ,..c- .( sv . v .: o r , u u , p, o , sV' ' %W

'

%* ''''..:L c ''', .

' 19.

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1331, dn Act to provide for t e

ordinary and contingent expenses of the Staté Employees

Retirement System. First Reading of the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Tefcser: ''Senate Bill 1394.''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1394. a Bill for an Act to

make an appropriation for the construction of a State Libra

Building. First Readim of the Bill.''I

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1397.,'

Fredric B. Selcke: nSenate Bill 1397, appropriation for the

expenses of the Secretary of State. First Reading of the

Bill . ''.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1400...

Fredric B. Selcke: 1'1400, a Bill for anqAct to make an appro-

priation to the Sec:etary of state. First Reading of the

Bill. ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1401.'1

Fredric B. Selcke: '11401, a Bill for an Act to make an appro-

priation to the Secretary of State. First Reading of theA '

Bill.'1

Rep. A rthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1418..'

Fredric B. Selcke: '11418, a Bill for an Act to make an appro-

priationoa. deficiency 'aperopriation for the Election Laws

Commission. First Reading of the B111.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1425.''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1425, a Bill for an Xct to mak

an appropriation for the expenses of the Department of

' Revenue. Pirst Reading of the Bill.''

.=

, t z .y E It A j- A s s E M B 1- Y, . ... .m> s j ; I.: N,

.b k.-t-i ., k..,t,) svavs os luu,sjolso y

'

.y ' y. . 2 -J: ' . l..:. . ' HD Ll SC o F r: E: PIT er t;t: AIT A.T d V ES# N w x?' .-J.i: e'i' ' .

. . '

2c.Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1459

.'.

Fredric Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1459, an Act concerning the

powers of Corporations authorized to accept and executetrusts, andsoforth .

'First Reading of the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1465.5'

Eredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1465, a Bill for an Act to

amend the 'Civil Administrative Code'. First Reading of

the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1505.'.

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate'Bill 1505, a Bill for an Act to

amend a Section of the 'Uniform Commercial Code'. FirstReading of th e Bi1l.

''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1571.''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1571, a Bill for an Act, to

amend an Act requiring hospitals to render emergency sërvice.

Ah.. First Reading of the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1576..1

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 15764 a Bill for an Act to mak

an appropriation relating to the 'Strip Mine AcquisitionAct'. Pirst Reading of the Bill

.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Sehate Bill 1583.''

Fredric selcke: '.1583, an appropriation to the Department

of Revenue. Pirst Reading of the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1589.1.

Fredric B. Selcke: ''1589, a Bill for an Act to amend the 'CiviAdministrative Code'. First Reading pf the Bil1

.''

Repo.Arthur A. Telcser: ''Take it out of the record. Repre-

. xb% l ::a. .., zk % jj * r. .' '

.1--,.> 17 G E N E R A L A S S E M 1$ L Yi'. *c,..,. . . '...-: ) sva v s o e , u

u , ,. e , s' L?.=: ' .1 aouss oe nceeussa-rxxlvss

.21.

sentativeqshea, for what pu rpose do you riser'

G. W. Shea; ''Did you read Senate Bill 15897''

' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: understand that the Sponsor wanted

it held so welll take it out of the record.'' '

G. W. Shea: ''Alrighte.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1596.,'

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1596. a Bill for an Act to mak

iation fo'r the expenses of the Judicial Advisoryan appropr

Council. Pirst Reading of the Bi11.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill ï597.''Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1597, an appropriation to the

Department of Business and Economic Development . First

Reading of the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate bill 1603.''

Fredric B. Selcke: t'Senate Bill 1603, an appropriation to the

Agri... Agricultural Commodity Marketing Study Commission.

First Reading of the Bil1.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1587. '..M .

Fredric Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1587, an appropriation for the

expenses of the Legislative Advisory Committee on Public

Assistance. First Reading of.the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''On the order of House Bills Third

Reading, appears House Bill 4129. Ah. . the Sponsor indicate

that he wishes to have House Bill 4129 returned to the order

of- Second Reading for the purposes of an Amendment. Does

the gentleman have leave? Hearing no objection, House bill

41/9 will be put on the order of Second Reading for the pur-

AJ'.I * ' ê.' g

'

'.48 -7172 '3 G E N E 11 A L A S S E M B L Yr. ..;.j , .j? ? ;- c ! k.&. .) svxa.c orr I uuI 'qojs. ç. vk .,;. ' .(;,?..r: ' ' -.,' aooss oe asen csc el.r av' v ss

.,. , q ; **...' !'!'.'. . .

22.

poses of an Amendment. The Clerk witl read the Amendment,

please.''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''AK.. Amendment No. 2, Burditt, amend House

Bill 4129. as ahended, by House Amendment No . l by deleting

the last two Lines of Section l and inserting in lieu there-

of the following: 'For Court Reporting Costs - $373.800.

Total- $952,300..''I

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Burditt-''

G. M. Burditt: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House,. ah.. the Senate has reduced the appropriation for the

Pollution Control Board Emergency ah. . Deficiency Appropria-

tion by $25,000 because they've'taken so long to get this

Bill through that the Pollution Control Board is not going

to expend that $25,000 during the current biennium. However

they are still going to have to have the hearings ah. . that

were intended to be paid for by that $25,000. So, all this

Amèndment does is add the $25.000 into the regular appropriaxM '

tion for next year for the Pollution Control Board. The

total amount of money, therefore, for the deficiency appro- . priation and for the ah.. appropriation for next year remain

the same. The ah.. Representative Lechowicz and Representa

tive Regner have b0th agreed that I lovy the Amendment. And

I move its adoption.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: 'lls there any discussion? The gentle-

man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No.

' House Bill 4129. A11 in favor of the adoption signify by

: x s.'.%%%t 1k r'A'

. ? bg cykr % G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y., kr: . àl ç. /.-t J .r' ) : s v A. w c o e. I u u I sl o . st

,?.-:. ' ' .... souss os ssescscxxax'lw ss.j .

2 3 .

J;aà'.'i II.J ' aya ' , the opposed ' no ' the Amendment is adopted .#

A r.t' nlrther M endments ? Third Reading . On the order

of Collt:ti.tutional Amendments - First Reading, appears Senate

Joil: lkcsolution' 62 . ''

c2 i l ke : ''Senate Joint Resolution Number 62 Consti-Fre r c L) . se c

tutional Amendment. First Reading.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Second Reading. House Bills Second

Reading. House Bill 4663..,

Fredric B. selcke: ''House Bill 4663, a Bill for an Act to make

an appropriation to the Superintendent of Public Instruction

Second. Reading of the Bill. No Committee Amendments.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Wait... Wait... Letls.. Let's take

it out of the record, would you; Mr. Clerk, please? Repre-sentative Hanahane for what purpose do you rise, Sir?'.

T. J. Hanahan: just looked up at the Calendar, Mr. Speaker,

and or up at the Board there and you had 62, House Bill 62

on Second Reading. What was that?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: 'lThat was Senate Joint Resolution 62.,'

. T . J . Ha nahan : '' 6 2 ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''We read a First Time and it went

to the order of Second.''

T J Hanahan: ''And n'ow it's going to the order of Second

Reading? When will it be heard on Stcond Reading, Mr.

Rep. A. Telcser: ,.1. . I assunte when the speaker calls

i t . l l tf l t I 1. . Sponsor requests it# Representative Hanahan . ''

. r1,. t'f .' l 4, 1 l I.j l j. 1 I l : ''Well does it take the nom al course of three. #

......3:''. ..,. I ).'.: .$ * '- .y> & '-';x ? c E x E R A j. A s s E M j; j. Y( 'q'f $ ' . .

'

. f 'jkj ' ' -, - ) s'rx're o e. I uu ' st o I s

k* N4! . . ' '

. '. ' el o w s p: o lr r4 s r. a s s c el 'r a v 1 v e: s' . . z 517.

, . .

24.Legislative Days so tomorrow it would be on Second Reading?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''On the Calendar. It could be calleda Second Time. Yes, Sir-

''

T. J. Hanahan: ''Today or tomorrow, sira''

Rep-' Arthur A. Teleser: ''Tomorrow. ToiorroW on Second Reading ''

Hanahan: ''Thank you. I have an Amendvent tc offer onit and I just want to make sure they're aware of HouseBills Third Readinq. House Bill 4083.''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4083, a Bill for an Act to pro-

vide for the ordinary and èontingent expenses of the Depart-ment of Aercnautics. Third Reading of the Bill

.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser? nLet's take that out of the record,Mx. Clerk. House Bill 4244

.''

Fredric Selcke: ''House Bill 4244, a Bill for an Act to

authorize the secretary of State to issue identification'cards. Third Reading of the B1ll.u '

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook Representa-#tive Merlo-''

J. Merlc: 'lMr.-speaker and Members of the Housey existing toda. more than ever before in our life-time is the seriou: proble

of identification . And, because of the complexity of our

society, we must make identification the right of everyonerather than the privilege of thcse who drive aùtomobiles.Currently, the drivers license is the most a

ccepted means ofidentification . This measure calls for the Secretary ofState to issûe an identifieation card tp any Illinois reside t

eregardless of age, who applies and submits the required in-

.. . ) * 1 > raa.z/> . rnn 'V G E N E R A L A s s E M B L Yv . J :t .. u-.. zJ. V

'

j . . ' * . . . ) s v a

'

x a o s I u u l sl o 1 s. ; Tï @.* ' z H (; U S E Q F lT C P Fl E S d bl T A T I *' e: S. 41 x'. -pf*

'

25.

formation. The card would be valid for five years and the

cost would be $5.00. Among thosee who would benefit most

are the younq, the elderly, the physically handicapped, the

minority groups and persons with difficulties in speaking .

English. Secretary of State, John Lewis, endorses and sup-

ports this proposal. And stating, and I quote, 'It fills

a long standing need especially for persons not qualified

to hold drivers licenses to have an effective and legal:i prove of identification'. Mr. Speaker, I hope that I getI .

the necessary votes to pass this Bilz. I don't know of any

opposition.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-

man from Cook. Representative Juckett-''

Juckett: ''Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor yield for a

couple of questionsa''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will.''

R. S. Juckett: ''What is the purpose of this identification?

I mean, is it to cash checks or ah..M

Merlo: ''TY cash checks, to establish credit. There are man

youngsters, as you well know, who need identification, parti u-

larly around the campuses. It's been called to my attention

that in order to attain a means of identification. There is

today, a black market on some of our campuses where some of

the students have to pay five to ten dollars to attain one

of these things. Older students. who happen to look young,

fine it impossible, as I said before, to cash checks or to

gain entry into adult movies, to go into bars without any

.. .4 ' A 'vi .' '. xt: ' ;; rtg. ... .f* $ .:;.x: vt . j%'?>s kï G E N E 11 A L A S S E M B L Y

l f . 4 . r . J r ,/h , j s v . v s o s 1 u. u , ,q o 1 sVV 'Y' '?- ,* . .. 11 otl S E o F 1: E PH ESE NY A T I N! esC! J i J k. . ' ! e%*M.'' ''.é . . i ' . . . ' '

26.

identification. There is a means. . . There is a problem of

frustration for these young people. In our Area there are

Ethnic Groups who find it difficult because of the problem

of dialogue in communication. And, I think, if they had

this means, it would ah.. sort of resolve one of the great

problems that exist.''

R. S. Juckett: ''Did you happen to read ah. . this week's ah..

or last week's issue of the U- S. News and World Reports?''

J. Merlo: ''No, I have not-''

R. S. Juckett: ''Welle I think, you'll find in there that the .

banks are starting to solve this problem by themselves with-

out any cost to Government and without any involvement in

Government in that they are now issuing checks with pictures

of the checkholder on the checks themselves so that there

would be positive identifiéation at the time that the check

was passed or used for identification. Soathis, I think, th1

banks are doing it themselves and theylre eliminating any

need for any other possible identification source so that

there can be very little ah. . bad check cashing for identifi

cation purposes. As a matter of fact, the banks have indi-

cated that the losses through bad checks have dropped con-

siderably so that that problem is very little of a problem

any more for those people using it. Now, it's my under-

standing in that ah.. the person, who wants this identifica-

tion, and it is solely for identification and it's not for

the purpose of being able to drive a car. And, I'm surprise

1 that the young people Want this. Becauseto Aear you say ,

, .$ % . .'>J7 '% G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y';' kr-f . 7*- :) svxvs os Iuu,ao,s@? J> .r7 . .* % ê. . . ? 11 o kl s E o F lR &; F' R E s C :1 T 8 T 1 v EE S.< : %* .t ' .'* 7...'.i.ï 1 -.

'

27it's my understanding that the young people are driving andgetting their drivers licenses in great numbers

. Ah.. it's

my understanding that ah . . you can send for this identification by mail. .Is that correcta''

J. Merlo: ''You would have to. . . . . . Bob, you've asked about

ten questions. Now, do you want 'me to answer them all orv . .

''

R. S. Jpckett: ''The only question that I asked was, is it true

that you can send this for this identification by maila''

Merlo: ''You will have to make the necessary application.

You would give the same information. practicallye that you

would do when applying for a drivers license. There would

be a photo attached to the identification card. On your

other question, I know that yoû've made mention and I cer-

tainly don't want you to influence the Members of the Housewith some of your statements. You did say that this could

be a cost to Government. I might inform you, if anything,

this would bring additional revenues into the General Reven ePund. The Secretary of State antieipates as high as four

A 'million would make application for this identification card.At five dollars, it would bring in twenty million dollars.The cost of administering this Bill would be approximatelytwo million dollarb. You've talked about banks

. You're

talking about a limited number of pHople. I'm talking about

the elderly, the senior citizens, the handicapped, who don't

have a bank account or don't have a checking account. Youmay be more affluent but thdre are people who do not

. . do noeven have a bank account or a savings account

. These are

.. .

'

rt (; '. . . tsv.. ; ' . . . .,,. / '' h. z .,=,nv r G E s E R A L A S S E M 13 L Y? .? t(.-. :' 2 ,.. . f.<w -ç. < . l ; ' ! * s 'r A. 'r k: o p. , u u 1 N o I st / '=G ' Y. g'' tz . uousc oe- nt:p'la csEe4'rA'rl v e:s, s%* 'f t' s. ' 1.:.. -

27.

the people that I'm interested in .''

R. S. Juckett: ''We1l# Lad... ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and

Gentlemen of the House: I think, this is another intrusion,

by Government: into the private affairs of their people.

We're talking... If we're talking about senior citizens.

I kncw that the vast majority cf the people. who are sixty-

five years of age or older are on Medicare and they have a# .

Medicare Card and they have identification . I think, if

you'rq talking about the young people, koulre talking about. people who have drivers licenses and identification of that

sort ah.. where they can be. If wedre talking about College

Campuses, every single College Campus, that I know of, issue

an identification system for each and every student tkat

goes to their sehool. I thinke that the Sponsor of this Bi1

is over-stating the amount of people that are going to make

use of it. And, even is a1l of these people did make use

of it, I think, it is not a function of Government. I think

that we should get on with the business of Government and

leave the identification of the People to private sources.

The banH are doing it themselves for the purpose of cashing

checks. They have cut down the loses of bad checks tremendo s-

1y. And, they nov state that thereais very little trouble

from this standpoint when the people use this new system.

The elderly are being taken care of by the Medicare System.

They have their means of identificau on. I think: that we

ought to get out of it and.. I think, we ought to leave it topri'vate enterprise to do their own form of identificati

on.

. x&) 4 Yz.' 1 2 , <,*7n 64 '. G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y! ' g y) ..j . ;' lx jt bf ','-=. . 1. 5T A'F E o F l LL ' >' o 1 s

* %s'ef . '' H ou sc o v n. c p R E s c N v A.'r , v cs '

28.

And, if the people are desirous of being identified, I'm

sure that they can do it through their charge cards. through

k 'thezr drivers license, through their medicare and other .

cards. And, I don't think that, if it's solely for the pur-

Pose Df identification, that the State Government should be

making a Profit On thcse that don't have a means of identifi

cation. And, I urge a 'no' vote.''

Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Dan o'Brien.''

D. J. O'Brien: ''Ah.. will the Sponsor yield to a questicn?

Jack, ah.. do you think that, if this Bill passes, that the

ill be no need fo' r ah. . the proposed ah . . Study Commissionw

to look into the feasibility of a picture on a drivers

license? Do you think that that will become unnecesgary

if this Bill should pass?l'

J. Merlo: ''Representative O'Brien, I'm speaking of those

dividuals that do not qualify for a drivers license. As I

mentioned before, this is for the elderly that doh't drive,

the handicapped that don't drive. There are many young

people that don't drive. There are ethnic ah.. ah.. indi-

viduals that don't drive that are difficult to establish

credit. And, this is a means, as I see it, to helping

these people-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Macon, Repre-

sentative Borchers.''

W. Borchers: ''I'd like to ask the Spohsor a questien. This i

permissive, is it not?''

.. s. ..-ç A >' $,a... a.: . za? : e/ ..5. ,ï -71> : i ï G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yî fj Q-jkt ,

'

rx) Lo ) sv w a. s o.s l t- u t st o I sî . -f . / 'r. ' .* . # . u o t; S E o F f: E yp R y; s t: pl T A, T I v e: s'! ' %*%*'6.11 '''d' - --- .... . - . .- - . . . .- - . - . .. . . .....

.

zgMerlo: ''It is. Tt is voluntary

. I.mean, you don't have to.

You don't have to apply if you don't wish . You could do it

on your own-''

W. Borchers: ''Very well. I'd like to speak. with permission,on the Bill a moment-''

:Rep . Arthur A . Telse z.r : '' Prcceed: S ir . ''

W. Borchers: ''I've been connected with numbers of businessesland I can see wherr

r since ah.. the ah. . individual wishingthis, ah.. has to pay for the State Board Identification

and I can see wher= ah. . ah.. they.. it's a permissive thing

that there is a nccd ah . . for the business point of view wit

the increasing numter of people and ah. . and the difficulti s

in ascertaining a1l the facts. I ah., hate to ah.. to be

opposed to my good friend, Mr. Juckett, Representative

Juekett, who I see generally votes along with me on things.But ah.., being interested in business myself

, I can quicklysee that this an excellent idea. If 'it returns some moneyto. thie State. it does something else . It gives positive

-':identif icaùton ah. . State supported and backed up by the

State as an individual. And, if there is a need for it,

everybody does not have proper identifidation. Ah.. I don't

want to go to the Europqan fot% s: in France andqEnland and

other Nations where you have to have.this man. . these things.

But, there's one thing that you have to say for it. Theyt

do have official iclentification over there. And, there's

no question, who who and ke don't have it here. And, thiis a step in the rs.ght direction for the businessman to know

. ' . . .. ' . .-, rkss) $1 r bvv . .:'t$ ?J e-''ips e ' G - '' @.' 'E R A L A S S E M 8 L YîI s.E.-7kt.. -f -; -t.) svxvu os . uu,ao,s

. 'Qf .T' * / . 'lty-u; s c o g' PR c e a c s c N T a 'r I v c s, + . '' '' ' * * *% ''':! )'% ..

30.who he is dealing with

. So. I think, we ah. . should supportit '1

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representà-tive Caldwell .

'' '

L. A. H. Caldwell: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in suppork

of this Bill. It's a very intelligent, simple ah.. solutionto a 1ot of social problems. It simply says that people

,

who do not qualify or have drivers license, should have somedefinite means of identificati

on. Representakbe ah . . TheSponsor indicated that this Bill will b

e an added serviceto certain segments of our population in our society tosimplify them identifying themselves for various purposes.

I think, this is an excellent Bill. And, it's very difficul

for me to understand the opposition.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from' Cook, Represehta-tive Duff.''

B. B. Duff: 1'Wil1 the Sponsor yield to a questiona''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: '$He indicates he will.''B. B. Duff: ''AY .. Representative Merlo

, ah.. I noticed thatthere are penalties here in the Bill ah.. where it says,'a viôlation of the Act is a misdemeanor lest declared to be

. a felony by other Laws of the State '. And, then it goes onto ah.. ah.. describe convictions

, andsoforth. And yet, it

never actually sets penalties. Ah.. how would you provide

for the penalties ah. . and to what reference do you have whe

you say, 'a felony if otherwise provided by another Law ofthe Stateda''

,? .b ''nnk'h G E N E R A L A s s E M B t. Y( :( .: -6 $:( ?' ) -. i : r'*) 7 ) s v a v. c o e 1 u u 1 s o I sï . .1.. /.Y. ' *, i sousc o s rzseacsc--ravl v e:sXs:: ' ' ve ,.'.i2 . ... '

. . 3l.

J. Merlo: ''Representative Duff, all I can tell you is, if thisBill was drawn up by the personnel of the Secretary' of State

,

I would assume that it is drawn in ah . . in sort of a ah.. .

a pattern of the present 'Drivers License Act'. And, the'

only thing that I can say to your qzestidn is that it wouldbe ah.. administered according to the Law

. And. that would

be it . ''

B. B. Duff: ''But, it does say a 'misdemeanor'' ah. .

''

J. Merlo: ''Yes, it does .''

B.. B. Duff: '''unless decla/ed to be a felcny by other Laws'.Now, the two questions that I have are, what provision for

penalty as a misdemeanor and how does it relate for example,#

Uo the ah.. Code of Corrections? And, furthermore, are you

aware of any cther Laws which declare the violation of this

Act to be a felonya''

'' ' d that thb Criminal Code' does'J. Merlo: It s my undekstandi g

provide that, if there is no penalty for a misdemeanor, that .

! it would be the same as falsifying a drivers license. I'm

not a Lawyerr, Brian, and I really don't know the legal back-Cxound * ''

B B. Duff: ''Well ah.., I.. I would ah. . be curious to know wh

you feel that it would be the same as. . as ah.. viclating

a drivers license since ah . . the Section of the Code doesn't

refer to the ah.. drivers license ah . . Sections of the Secre

tary of State's Office. Is that not correct?''

J. Merlo: ''Itos my understanding that the 'Criminal Code' in

its language menticns a felonious act %ut does not provide

.. soja .'rf..' t. : q. t .gt> k A G E N E R A 1

. A s s E M B L, Yl i- 7 .. k'-'s .'1 ).&,. tj svxvs os , uj-txo,sî , -. .?

. t,? .r. ' ',/ sousc os 1. cea ésc-vavsv cs* ' v* .''t td d .. !.* '- ! . .

32.

the penalty. Now, what trànspires after that I would imagin

would be a question of a hearing and ihe adequate iaw being

administered-''

B. B. Duff: ''Well now, this Bill, as I read it. and I'm asking

it does not appear to change the Drivers License Act nor '

does it appear to change the 'Criminal Code'. Ah.. apd I'm

trying to catch the connection between the penalty section

and ah.. those vague references that it makes to possibly

other Statutes. Ah.. 'a violation of this Act is a misde-

mednor' it says, and yet. it doesn't refer to penalties.#

Ah.. and then, it further says, eunless declared to be a

felony by other Làws of the State'. And. my second question

to you was, are you aware of any other Laws of the State

that would declare this to bq a felony?''

J. Merlo: ''Brian, I do not.. The only thing that I could tell

you is that ah.. I would certainly ah.. solicit the Secretar

of State to render an opinion. And if necessary, the prope

amendance will be put on the Bill in the Senate.''

B. B. Duff: ''Well, the ne'xt question that I have is that I not

on the list of costs, it says, 1an original card will be

$5.001. And. 'a renewal card...', and I pre.. and I presume

or 'a duplicate card will be $3.00% if.. if somebody loses.

the first one, a renewal care is $5.00. And ah.., this is

recorded annually or fivq yearsa''

J. Merlo: ''After every five years.''

B. B. Duff: ''And ah.., a $5.00 feea''

Merlo : ''Tlzat ' s correct ''C

t. ( ,) ; 'm > rc ' G E x E R A ja A g g E yj jj j. yi/ % - . q 1'. .4 * 1 w )Sx-sx. i ( , g r : ' . , . * T A' T E o ' e' 1 L t. l 1% o ' S. . e, ou se- o c R e:es cs y: hl v xv 1 v ss. . . .u..s

33.B. B. Duff: ''Now are you aware of the fack that th

e proposed#ah.. Bill to ask for a picture on the drivers license ah..states, as a result of the studies that were conducted onthe information that was garnered

. that it would cost some-.thing like $.11 a year ah. . to put a pikture on a driverslicense. And, in light of that, I would like to ask why

do you feel that it's necessary aho., unless there is someah.. taxing premise or basis for this

, to have a fee of

$5.00 instead of what would be probably more apt, $.5079.

Merlo: ''Welle first of all, it is a voluntary service. Thequestion of identification, as far as the photo is concernedwas brought up in Committee. And, it seem to be. . . has beenrakher the opinion of all of those present that

, in ordçr foan identification eard to truly serve its person... its pur-poses, it must include an identi. . . or à picture. The Secretary of state informs me that it would be a cost to the De-partment of about $.50 for the processing of a photo

.''

B. B. Duff: ''Ah.. right.' And, $.50 for the processing and the

fee of $5.00 which 'is, of course, an inordinate cost, I thin ,you would agree. The question

. . The next question that Iwould ask, is the appropriation on this Billw .. Ah.. is itstili on the Bill or has it been amended and put on a separa eBill?''

J. Merlo: nIt's been amended and put on a separate... in aseparate Bill. And, by error

, I neglected to ask thatah.. House Bill 466. . 4669 be included as a companion Bill

whiçh r will do immediately after the passage of this Bil1.''

/F ?b.. q-Tm'' X G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ytc 'k .f -ew.lk

s1 o,k

.. svxv.s o'r luuts'o'.t y? T*. .q .* .> . H o tl s c o F' R c !> f4 c s c 14 'r A. 'r j v s: s: . , .. NT)!..Z2 !

. .

'

34.

B. Duff: ''And then ah.., the appropriation on that Bill is

the same as this, $2.000,000?''

J. Merlo : ''This is correct . ''

B. B. Duff: ''AH.. then. would ask why, if these are figures

from somebody in the Secretary of State's Office for a syste

far more complicated than that proposed for the picture on

the Drivers License Bill-'is the appropriation. $2,000.000

when they said that they need seven and a ialf million dol-lars ah.. for the other Bill? And, in fact, it was.. as a

result of ah.. the fiscal note, was declared to be considera

bly less. Ah.. can you explain that discrepancy?''

J. Merlo: ''Yes.. Ah.. first of all: this is sort of a simpli-

fied sys tem or process where the drivers license would be

more complicated. I understand that there's a question of

i in of the wholq system where it desolves d/iv/rscomputer z glicenses. It involves the search as far as the Drivers

License ah.. Applicant is concerned. And, all of these, of

course, are additional avenues that had to be pursùed before

a photo could be placed on a drivers license.''

'

B. B. Duff: ''l ah.. would like to speak to the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Proceed, Sir.n

B. B.' Duff: ''AK. . first of all, ah.. the System that is referr d

to in the Drivers License Bill is considerably sipp ler than

this using the presently available computerized printouts

and facilities already available. Secondly ah. . . this Billi

does not have in it ah.. any provision for the penalties of

misdemeanors. It further has a cost connected with it of

... .p' x xiiirx....A & *' '.'

:, !. tl7Lk G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y?(- 7t: )yh ii o)t-. .< !) svx'ru 0e. ,uu'ao's$ . ... ' =: ' ' ''. .* $. 1 x I4OQJSC OF REPHEGENTAYIVES*1 bl . ..

.--q. ê. .e

- . . Z * '3 5 .

. L.$5.00 ah . . Uz tae ah . . compared to a $ . 50 cost which puts it

5 7'. tlpc =tD rure of a tax , a considerable tax . And, it furthe .

il seems to mey would put the S'tate of Illinois in connec-

t:l o,a s.. . into contact with . . . . ''

Rep.' Qrthur A. Telcser: nRepresentative Meyer, for what pur-

pose do you rise, sir?''

J. T. Meker: ''A point of order to my Colleague. Isn't therea ',lu-l'me limit on questions and answersa''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Yes. there is, Sir and I've told

Representative Duff that his time is running out.''

B. B. Duff: ''And so, I would add that, it seems to me. that a

Bill like this might very conceivably put ah.. many people

into a situation ah.. by requirements of industry that they

would not really be free not to ask for such a card. But,

would almost be mandated by Commerce ah.. to ask for such

a card. I really feel that, in.terms of simplicity, cost,

ease and the support of the Law En/orcement Officials of th

State of yllinois, that this Bill is not adequate to theproblem that the Sponsor represents. Thank you.''

Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive J. J. Wolf.''

J. J. Wolf: ''Mr. Speaker 'and Members bf the House, ah.. from

vzhat I understand of this Bill when it.was heard in Executi

cammittee, and I voted against it then. It would seem to

me that some of the shortcomings of this Bill, and I know

how well-intentioned the Sponsor is, is that when we apply

for a drivers license, we must do so in person, and with the

.. A

'

k

'

o ' - .....

. ox y .(' .b. ' t '''F> Y G E N E R A L A S S E 5 f B L, Y$< k'r 't''s . $ -,x, f ' '1! ç. . .. ,.. ; - s'rx'rs og l uu1 xojs' - p -r. . . .YVX.....'

.'.e '

. s%h > e 6 0. U.....-S Z . . ? r R f P H ê: S C N 'T A T 1 V E S

36.

forthcoming photograph, that will have to be processed a1l

at one time. I believe that someone can obtain one of thes

identification cards just by sending in, to the Secretary

of State's Officee by mail which, I think, would increase

the chR nces of fraud. Now. a drivers license, chances of

fraud are further cut down because the holder of that drive s

license always runs the risk cf being arrested on a traffic

violation in whici case any fraudulant drivers license in

his possession can be ah.. turned up which can not happen

. . very often in this case unless, aft%r he has already cashed

a bad check frcm some pocr, unsuspecting ah.. merchant.

And finally, I know the Sponsor doesn't intend this but, to

me, has some very strong overtones of a police stake. ' No ,: .: I know it's voluntary at this time but 1111 tell you one.1 'I thing, if I were a member of the minority group, I would

resist this particular Bill with everything in my power.

And, I'm going to vote 'nod-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Ccck, Representa-.,A'

tive R. Càrter.''

R. A. Carter: ''Mr. Speaker, I move the previcus questionoo

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman has moved the previous

question. Al1 those in favcr signify by saying 'aye'ê

'

opposed 'no' the gentleman's motion prevails. And, Repre-#

sentative Merlo, to close the debate. Representative Washin -

ton: for what purpose do you rise, Sir?''

H Washington: ''A point of personal privileget As a pleasantinierlude, Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce the charmi g

., .s x

' . ...eu ;(.. . . tx. :'. 8 t-rr.o G E N E R A t. A s s E M B t. v) .' 6ïg).:. k j.2 M' i t . . 'x b'h 2 sv A. v c o e' l u u I N o 1 s

. (.u 7 r l ' '. el ou ss o p- n. cea e: sc a.r A.'r I v ssnl xl ..' 't . .1 : s!.. .L.... . .

37.

daughter.of Representative Barnes, Miss Vicki Barnes. She's

a recent graduate from grammar school. She's behind us in

the rear. Stand up, Vicki-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nRepresentative Merloy to close the

debate-''

Merlo: ''Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I1d be in order, at the

present time. to request that House Bill 4669 be included as

a companion Bill ahd heard at the same timea''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Does the gentleman have leave? Will

the Clerk please read House Bill 46:9 a Third Time?''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4669, a Bill for an Act to make

an appropriation for the 'Illinois Identification Card Act'.

Th e d Reading of the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Now. the gentleman from Cooke Repre-

sentative Merlo, to close the debate on b0th Bills.n

1 J. Merlo: ''.ln closing, I can only repeat. Currently, the

drivers license is the accepted identification. And, as a

result. people %N o do not drive, experience frustration andA .

discouragement in cashing checks, establishing credit and

other functions where an identification card is required .

his building was or this Bill was supporte'd by Mrs JaneT

Sclunidt of the United Cerebral Palsy Association, by the

senior citizens . And, might mention ah . . passage of this

House Bill 4244 is the most important to our senior citizens .

Also, by W .G .N . Editorial in which it says thate 'it should

not be lost in the shof f le.. This Bill here should be passed ' .

And, Ladies and Gentlemen, I ask that you support House Bill

,. '' ï' w: (jj' ' # :, .:d> q--rrx: c E N E R A L A s s E M B L Y/' 7) b;-.k . .. . ,.. .-. #,.1 x t. .kl . ' : * s'ravs oer l uul-ols.( 2i2' ' - -? .q. . ..' Hou sE o p' IR E: ei'ê cse: -'T' A'T I v cs .4t . ,

.x*..st '. .-''-

t '.

: 5 ,. . . :) t) .

4244 and 4669. ..

. '

j , I j. 1, y sRep. Arthur A. Telcser: The question is, shall House B.Q' q ' . .4*2*4'4 and 4669 pass?' A1l thoge in favor will signify byvoting 'aye' lnd the opposed by voting 'no'

. And, the#

Clerk will take two Roll Calls. Have a11 voted who wished?Take the record. Davis.. 'aye'. Tipsword.. 'aye'. On this

question, there are ll2 'Ayes' 14 'Nayst and these Bills#'

Ywving reùolved the Constitutional majority are hereby de-

ciarad passcd.. House... McMaster.. 'nol. House Bill 4628.,Fredric B. Selcka) ''House Bill 4628

, a Bill for an Act authori

zing Local Units of Government to issue full faith and credi

tax anticipation notes. Third Reading of the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Dupage, Representa

tive Hoffman.n

G. L. Hoffman: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen oE the House,House Bill ah.. 4628 is the Tax Anticipation Note Act

.

distributed a memorandum to all of the Members ah. . last wee .

And, sinee that time, I've had no ah.. contact or. . or comme tc* '

.b:' anyone in rqgard to this. I'd just like to point outthat the advantages of the notes over warrants

, of course.is that there's a lower interest rate

. ' These notes would

be issued in the same manner and under the same limitationas a warrant. Ah.. this would save ah

.. the local taxing o

- ' ah.. ah.. Districts a great deal of money in ah

. . interest. It's estimated somewhere in the neighborhood

of $5,000,000 . ': ': a year. Ah.. this Bill is supported by t:e Taxpayer's'

Pederation, the Civic Federation and. . and ah.. I would ask *

.

..r.,> .. , . . . ... . .'

(' .(' ., 7 : nv' , ï . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y' ' ' . 'y. ty,. ï .

' - j- .j, / z .

.

'

sj o o s ; 'r oA ; ejy os sfr g lsust-s' sN v! x' Sv j v s s# . e' 'psf '. ..) . *

39.

for your'support alsoo''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The questi n

is, 'shall House Bill 4628 passa'. .All those in favor sign'-

fy by voting 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all '#

voted who wished? Take the record. On this question, there

are 144 'Ayes' and nc 'Nays' and this Bill having received

the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. Hous

Bill 4286..'

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4286, an Att creating a Joint

. Legislative Commission on Economic Xdvisors. Third Reading

of the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Regner.''

D. J. Regner: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, 1'd like to ask leave to bring 4286 back to Second

Reading for the purposes of an Amendment .''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there any objections? Hearing

noney return the Bill to the order of Second Reading and

read the Amendment, please.''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''AK.. Amendment No. 1, Regner, amend House

Bill 4286 on Page 2. Line 1, andsoforth-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Regner.''

D. Regner: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House: this is a Bill creating the ah.. Joint Committee

f h Economic Advisors to estimate revenu' e . Ah.. thiso a ..

ffrst Amendment ah.. provides for the ah.. appointment pro-

. .... x ' ..

..' kh * 'â) ' fz/. .:3 ? 4 DXh G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y<''-i ') zr..) ': sx xv s o e. , uu, ,-, o , sI ç.... .:... .( z, r:. ' .A . . H o kl S E o F R E P R E S E :4 T A. 'r I V E S .., , .. s. t ë .1 . . . -- - . .. --

'

40.

cedure for Members of the Commission. And, the second part

of it ah.. ah.. is an Amendment providing for vacahcies

on the Commission. And. move for the adoption bf Amendme

No. 1, to House Bill 4286.'.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Alright.. Is there any discussion?

If not, the gentleman has offered to move the adoption of

Amendment No. 1. to House Bill 4286. A1l in favor signify

by saying 'aye', opposed 'np', the Amendmen't is adopted.

Are there further Amendments? Third Reading. Are there

further Amendments? Oh1 Back to Second-''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2. Regner, amend House Bill

4286 on Page 3 by .deleting Lines 20 through 23# andsoforth.''

Rep- Arthur A. Telcser: ''The genkleman from Cook Representa-#

tive Regner.''

D. J. Regner: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of tie'

A dmeni takes ihe approfriation out of' theHouse, this menBill because there is another or a separate appropriation

Bill. And, this is in line with ah. . with the New'constitu-Mkion. And, it also renumbers various sections ah. . thatls

' necessary to ah.. ah.. keep the Bill technically correct.

And, I move for its adoption.''

Rep.'Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-

man has offered to move the adoption of Amenjment No. 2,

to House Bill 4286. All in favor of the adoption signify

by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no' the Amendment is adopted.#Are there further Amendments? Third Reading

. On the order

oY' Consideration Postponed, appears House Bill 1856. The

ru'' v. $: * .1)2 ''''ff%'j'rj'Q< G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L YNs::. y , .., )1 v.-,k ..... ' : s'rxvu orz

.1 uulexols. *. L.,z. rl . . ' .

s o u s c o s s s e a s s c sj x A. v I v e: s

* . o : . 41

B?Al has been read a Third Time. And, the gentleman from

Cook, Representative Scariano.''y 7 '

A. Scariano: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, House Bill

1856 permits Junior Colleges to ah.. levy an Educational

Fymd Rate and a Building Rate commensurate with that of

U 'o City of Chicago. that is seventeen and a half cents per

educational purposes and the five cents for building pur-

IGçsesu A.h.. there is provisions for a backdoor referendum .

'zhp:, thqre'is provision that ah. . there may not be a ah..

lfevy of more than three cents for educational purposes or

cwta qont for building purposes during any one year. This

wopld affect only about eight nr nine Junior Colleges. All

the rest of the more than three' dozen Junior Colleges wouldn't

:/2 affected because.they have rates either commensurate with

this rate or higher than it. But, there are eight or nine

i lleges who desperately need this money.

And, thos'eJun or Co

Colleges are Thornton, Prairie State' Dupage, Parkland Rock# '.Valley, Joliet, McHenry. Kishwaukee and Waubonsee

. They neeA ''

tltis desperately in order to keep operations going. And, I

would urge your support of this Bill-''

Rep. Arphur A. Telcser: ''Is there any disèussion? The gentle-

man from Cook, Repbesentative Bill W>lsh- ''

W. D. Walsh: 'Yell, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, I would question the gentleman's last statement

berause the people in, at least, two of these Districts, tha

, he mentioned, h'ave within thb last six weeks turned down

increases such as this Bill would ah . . do without referendum

. .u .w E-N - N . .z ewk. . '71 -'ll'sv 'J'/' ''.<'r?> '.. : ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YQ'.t:*, . . 7-.,, j ' svwvc o.r , k-u,o,o Istst-gy ? i',,: . . ....w .- -

sowss .,, aseasscxvsvlvss'<t'' cJr%7.'-

42.

without direct referendum. Now, I suggest to you that this

is a very poor time to be talking about a tax increase with-

. out a direct referendum considering 'the great enthusiasm tha

greeted the Bill that C. L. Mccormick ah. introduced in ah'..

and the enthusiasm the Press met this Bill with. And, that

ah.. many of our Members ah.. ah. . talked at some length

the other day about ah.. how badly needed this Bill was. No p

at this moment: we'are flying right in the face of that in

considering exactly the opposite propcsition. And, that is,

let's face it, a tax rate increase Uithout referendum. I

would submit to you, as many of you have heard before, that

there has been in the memory of anyone that I've talked to

just one backdoor referendum that has been successful over

the past twepty years. And, to say that there's a back-

door referendum on this. is clouding the issue . I ah..

strongly urge that you vote 'no' on this Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Does

the gentleman wish to close the debate? The gentleman fromve

Cook, Representative Scariano.''

Scariano: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, all I know is, is tha: the people from Mr. Walsh's

District: primarily: the Dupage College people, have been

pressing vigorously for this. And, just this morning, theTeachers at Prairie State Junior College in Chicago Heights

went on strike. And, the only reason why the Teachers can't

get the kind of money that theyire looking for over there

is because the Ccllege simply doesn't have Now, if

, ''/ 1. (jj * K/. svlz.'zr;>' G E N E R A t

. A S S E M B L Yg k)- .t ; c,,..u ùk ' v . .'J. - s >' A. T f: Ch F 1 L. L l e4 o 1 S1 / '=.''':' w soqjss o s a sea cs p: sj'r A,v I v cs* u ..t. ,. r-xr'J-:.* ---

43.

we're to avoid these donnybrooks and give the Teachers the

kind of money that their lntitled to and to give these Board

Members the kind of money that they need to do the job that

. they were elected to do, it would spem to me, that we should

give them this Bill. The safeguards are there. There is

a backdoor referendum and there is a limitation of three

centg per year on'the Educational Pund Rate and one cent on

the Building Rate. And, this is just exactly what the City

of Chicago has. I don't know why the Junior Colleges out-

side the City of chicago should be in a more unfavorable '

or disadvantageous position than the City Colleges in Chicag .

I thinky that ah.. we should put the amount parity and 1et

these Colleges ah the Board o.f Trustees do the kind of job

that they were elected to dok And I urge your support of t is

Bill '' '

Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall House Bill

1856 pass?'. Al1 those in favor signify by voting 'aye'e

and the opposed by voting 'nö'. The gentleman from Cook,

Representative Moore, to explain his vote.''

D. A. Moore: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen

of the House, I rise in support of this Bill ah.. in spite

of the Chief Sponsor of the Bill. We are not on the same

side very often but, occasionally: we are. I think, that

this is a good Bill. It leaves us. at least in my District

in the South Suburban Area of Cook County, to establish the

pame rate as the City Colleges of Ch* ago. It gives us an

opportunity to bring our rate up to w/at their's are over a

..k' ..,X '' t ,',... vs.?jr . GENERAL ASSEMBLkJ.' r . r.,) l svxme oe 1 uulwo's2 f. t .., ) .m:... . .# * '.

' . H 5L1 S E. o F Fk E P R E 5/ N T AT 1 + ES.N %*vtz ,....1-- ..- . --- ---

44.

Jperiod of t'Vu. The two new Collegds in ah.. South Suburba: . )

kcook County 'ah.. are in need of this money, desperately.

And, there iù a backdoor refefendum attached to this. I see

no objection.tb it. And, I would urge 89 votes on the Board.

Thank you, Speaker.''

Rep, Arthur A. Q'e-lcser: ''Have all voted who wished? Take

the record. on this question. there are' 42 'Ayes', 31 'Nays'

uand this Bill:-qnaving failed to receive the Constitutional:.

' majority is hi'teby declared lost.'''

Hon. W. Robert Biair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Randolph .''

P. J. Randolph: '''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, ah. .

la:t Thursday, the Committee of the Whole heard House Bill

4680. And, the Committee did arise. I'd like, at this

time, to report prégress. Mr. Speaker. And, I now move

that Rule 38 be suspended so House Bill 4680 may be advance

to Second Reading - Second Legislative Day. I so move, Mr.

Speaker.''

Hon ' W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Is there objection? Leave.

xA '

.It is to repofY the committee of the.. action of the Committ e

of the Whole. -Oh! To advance to second Reading now. A1-

right ah.. Aru the Rules suspended so that the. . the ah..

House Bill 4680 may be' placed on the order of Second Reading -

Second Day? Alright.. Hearing no o'bjqction. then that's the

order of businaus that it will be placed on. The ah.. gentl -

man from Cook, >Q''-. Hyde.''

H. q. Hyde: ''Mr. Speaker: Ladies ani Gentlemen of the House,

I now move thatethe Hcuse ah.. stand in recess for one half

. ' v. 'N ' .

. z.t i'z .. z '' . . ? .. : . '.7z k'z kï N E R A L A S S E M B L Y. . . j. k(.y .g ., $..s r!w t.bhwj'..j'. . j ' 5T' A. T' E O F I t. L I N o 1 SQ . ' . t , u 6 , ' ' q 0..../' * s o uj s u: o yr a c j > y, c s E N T A 'r I v e: s

lr T! . . ...

45.hour for purposes of a Republican Conference. The Republic swill report to Room 2l2 immediately

. If we ah.. get down

there very quickly. we can dispatch our business and returnin a half an hour.

''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Union, Mr. Choate.'i

C. L. Choate: ''Well, Mr. qpeaker, would ah.. advise theDemocratic Memberse We are not going to have a Conference

this morning. Ah.. if they want to get something to eat.

have a cup of coffee or something. But, I would ask them

to be back on the floor of the House ah. . in apprbximately

tbirty minutes when the Republican Conference is overm''Hon. W. Robert Blair:' ''Alright. . Ah.. wedll be back on the

floor ah.. at 1:00 P.M. Ah.. we plan on working ah. . quitelong this afternoon in order to get the Calendar moved -''

RECESS FE 12:30 O'CLOCK P.M.

RETURN A; 1.:00 O'CLOCK P.M.

Doorkeeper: ''All who are not entitled to the House Chamber, wi l

yov please retire to the Gallery? Tiank you.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright . . The House will be in order.

House Bills Second Reading. Ah.. House Bill 4112.'.

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4112, a Bi 11 for an Act to pro-

vide for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Boardof Vocational Education nehabilitation

. Second Reading ofthe Bill. Two CoMnittee Xmendments. Committee Amendment

..' .j w ' t' >'ï- . G y; N E R A L A s s E M 11 t. Yu' >kpzt. .,)>,,t

sxsv.s os ,uu,.o,s2 ,u.. .k 2 -..1'.?-d . . ' .. elotl 5 E O F N EPR ESC N T' 8 T 1 V E S

46.

No. 1. amend House Bill 4112 on Page' 2 by insertinge immedi

ately after Line 6, the following: 'For expenses of the

Advisory Council in connecticn' with studies and evaluations...

$100 0001 ''# @

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Lee, Mr. Shapiroe''

D. C. Shapiro: ''AK.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, Amendment No. to House Bill 4112'. provides

a $100.000 for the expenses of the Advisory Council in con-

nection with studies and evaluations. This line item was

inadvertently left out when the Bill was drafted. And, I

urge .its adoption.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Any further discussion? The question 's

on the adoption of the Amendmen' t. Al1 those in favor say

'aye', opposed 'no'' the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment i#

adopted. Are there further Amendments?''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2. amend House Bill 4112 on

Page 4, after Line 17 andsoforth.n'

Hon/ W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Lee, Mr. Shapiro.nxM '

' D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Chairman, ah.. Ah.. Mr. Speaker,

Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. this Amendment ah.. re-

quires the Department- . Division cf Vocational Rehabilita-

tion to make reports to the ah.. ah.. Bureau of the Budget

and the Appropriations Ccmmitteey Minqrity and Majority

Staffs ah.. on a quarterly basis. And, next year prior ah..

! to the next meeting of the General Assembly. And, I urge

its adoption.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: nAny further discussion? The question

.. ' ;-.. . .. k. u A :..);% jj ,r e,j

...A j GENERAL ASSEM BLYt.'.t.) y,,m .1

f.-t .x. ) svxv.e os Iuuls,o's. -1,;. ? 'r: '' ' *. . . H ou se o F R EPI: Es E r4 T A.T 1 v Es61 , . .. . ! *- < .... . -. ... . -- -. . --- --.

47.

is on thq adcpticn of the Amendment. Al1 those in favor

say 'aye' opposed 'no' the 'ayes' have it and the Amend-

ment is adopted. Are there further .Amendments? Third Reàd-

ing. 4134.'' '

Eredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4134, a Bill for an Act to make

an appropriation to the Board of Trustees to the Universitie

Retirement System. Second Reading of the Bill. One Commit-

tee Amendment. Amend House Bill 4134 cn Page 1, Séction 1,

Line 9, by striking .$3,038,3001 and inserting in lieu there

of '$38 300..1,. #

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Champaign, Mr. Cla- bauqh . ''!'

c. W. Clabaugh: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the Hcuse, this is

really just an Amendment in form. It's taking $3,000,000

out of this appropriation for University Retirement ah . . and

putting it into the... And then, there will be an Amendment

to the Universities Annual Appropriation to put the money

in there. So, it's ah.. just a change of form that the ah...--*

Bureau decided that they rather have 'it this way . And,

move the adopticn of the Amendment.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? A1l those' in favor of the

adoption of the Amendment say 'aye' opposed 'no' the 'ayes''. #

have it and the Amendmen t is adopted. Are there further

Amendments? Third Reading. 4163.'1

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 1463, a Bill for an Act to make

an appropriation for the ordinary and contihgent expenses of

certain Legislative Ageneies. Second Reading of the Bil1.''

. .q z. .: ... '' %N X t) t2'' .z z .> tc;vk, G E N Iy R A L A s s E M B L YJ' kt-'ï .z 4 .. ; :. v' ; smxv s: o v. I uu I s o lst. . :. .j .' 'S.' ' ' .., . el D tl S E O F Fl 1: P f' E S E N T A T 1 V E S%t q +% *.z' .v. . . .. !!., ! . .. . . ''

48.

Hon. W. Robert Llair: ''The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Regne .''

D. J. Regner: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, thls is a committee Amendment ah.. which corrects

the original B'ills introduced to include some of the various

Commissions that were left out of the ah.. original Bill.

And, also it relieves to of them that were included but ah..

due to the enacting Legislation of last year, these Commis-

sions will cease to exist at June 30th of this year. And, I

would ah.. move: the adoption of Committee Amendment No.

to House Bill 4163.,'

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? All those in favor of the

adoption of the Amendment say 'ayel opposed 'no' the 'ayes'# #

, have it and the Amendment is a'do pted. Are there further

Amendments? Third'Reading. 4210...

P. B. selcke: ''House Bill 4210, a Bill for an Act to make an

appropriation... reappropriaiion to the Board of Higher

Education. .second Reading of the .Bill. No Committee Amend-

nïents . ''.M '

Hon. W. Robert B1ai2: ''Any Amendments from the floor?''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 1. Henss, amend House Bill

4210 on Page 2, andsoforth.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair': ''The gentleman from Rock Island Mr.

Henss .n

A. Henss: ''Mr. Gpeaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, earlier today, was agreed to shift ah.. $590,000

from one Bill, ah.. thFt Bill being House Bill 4528 in the

denate , to this nille House Bill 4210 . Ah . . this m rticular

;s ... . .. .q k ,jk,w...':a. .1 . ./4/'8 j'mzn'r *G E N E R A j. A s s E M B L Yjq.-:.. ) , ..t2 a !)

,. e x2 > svxvs ov , uu1 uo,sf.k ksi.. .,* 6 . . y Hotase o F nctlyylcslzN'ra'rlvcs#

'

1 t ''''z . . * * Y .'*'tàl .- ..'

'

49

appropriation of $590,000 is ah.. going to be added on to

4210. . But, actually, it has already met with the unanimous

ap/roval of this House. Ah.. this particular Amendment hasbeen checked with th e Chairman and the Minority Spokesman

of the Appropriations Committee. I would appreciate your

support-''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: nIs there discussion? The question is

on the adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor say

'aye', opposed 'no' the 'ayes' have it and the Amendment#

is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third Reading.

4211..'

Fredric B. selcke: zHouse Bill 4211, a .Bill for an Act to make

appropriations and reappropriations to the Board of Regions.

Second Reading of the Bill. Two Committee Amendments. Commi -

tee Amendment No. 1. amend House Bill 4211 on Page 1, Sectio

1, andsofortho''

Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Rock Islandp

Henss . ''xA

D. A. Henss: ''This is a Committee Amendment reducing the appro

priation by $9,060,254. I move for its adoption.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? The question is on the

adoption of the Amendment. All those in favor. . . The gentl -

man from ah.. ah.. McHenry, Mr. Hanahan.''

T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker, ah.. on this Amendment, I have

an Amendment also on the Clerk's desk and I know that we've

never really resolved on how you go ibout handling Amendment

on what priorities . 'rhis is a ccmmitt'ee Amendment . Ande

' .J /. (c?> ' 4 G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YI j eû..- s . . , v & yt j(. Tt . .. ; s'rnv'e o Ie 1 t. ul s1 o, s.1 ' J '='.. . ; .* s î J. . H o tz s E b F a E F. :4 e: s e: pl 'r A. 'r I v c s*1 jl ô%* ''''

50.

my Amendment also adds money in certain line items. And, I

was just wondering if.. if they are.. if they will be compat'-

ble. I don't want to lose my AmendmK t in offering an Amend

ment ah.. because theyêre incompatible. I have two Amend-

ments up there. I'm talking about the Amendment on the line

items for ah.. appropriations.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Well, I think, we have to ah.. address

ourselves to the Amendments ah.. ah.. in their numerical

sequence. And ahg., that question would be appropriate

when.. when we got down to the consideration of ycur.. of

your :h.. Amendment. Is there any further discussion on

this Amendment? The question then is on its adoption. All

those in favor say 'aye' oppoged 'no' the 'ayes' have it' . #

and the Amendment is adopted. Further Amendments?'''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2, amend House Bill 4211 on

Page Section Line l64 aùdsoforth.'' '

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman.fr' om Rock Island, Mr.

Hdns s . ''A '

D. A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, this ah.. Amendment is also a Com-

mittee Amendment. It reduces the appropriation for Sangamon

state University by $977,000 because of a ah.. savings on a.

on a low bid. I love for its adoption-n ' Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? The question is on the

, ,adoption of the Almendment. A1l those in favor say aye ,

opposed 'no' the qrayes' have it and the Amendment is adopte .'''

'lAh Amendment No. zenss, amend HouseFredric B. Selcke: ..

éill..- ''

. L 2.4.'n yj 4$ ...... *:.r. N. (. .. ' .'ty..$ .,, N, j- -. -' N E R A L A S S E M B L Y2 xkt ,.. > ) sv ,.'re: o .. ' u u ' ,q o 's% w . c ! . .# ' % </ , . s o u s E o F a E e !v E s e N T A. T 1 v E sr 1, . . +% .' .C 2- '

5l.

Hon. W . Robert Blair: nThe gentleman from Rock Island, Mr.

Henss.''

. D. Henss: ''Amendment No. 3 is not a Committee Amendment bu

it is an Amendment of form . It rearranges the ah.. Bill in'

the amount of $17,500 which should have been taken from ah. .

Section 6 instead of Section in the Amendment that we hav

just adopted. It does not change the total appropriation.

We agreed to the réduction but it was improperly drafted.

And, I move the adoption of Amendment No.

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? Tse gentleman from Cook,

Mr. simmons-''

A. E. Simmons: ''Would the Clerk read Amendment No.

Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''The Clerk will read the Amendment- ''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amend House Bill 4211, as amended, on

Page Section 6, Line by striking ,$46,747,1001 andinserting qin lieu thereof .$46,729,60017 and on Page 8

,

Section 6, Line 2O# by striking $2,485,300' and inserting

in lieu thereof '$2,470e3OO'; and on Page Section 6, Line

.< . 26, by striking $$8:707,100' and inserting in lieu thereof 'I

'$8e704,600'; and on Page 8, Section 6, Line 35, by strikin

'$21,042:500' and inserting in lieu thereofX$2l,025,0O0';

and on Page ll, Section 7. Line 3O, b.y striking '$261,500'

and inserting in lieu thereof '$279.000'7 and on Page ll,Section 7, Line 3l, by striking .$836,407 and inserting in

lieu thereof '$853,907'7 and on Page ll, Section 7. Line 32,by striking '$3,317,016' and inserting in lieu thereof

1$3'334 516'..'# #

wt K s.', k; -,,/t--7.-,, o E x s R A L A s s c M B L vj/ t ijyy .: .r) x ,jg4 Cj .T' g/ :4 o u S E o F R E yp R E s E :4 'r A. T' 1 %/ E S

.Q .

52.

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Is there further discussion? The ques

tion is on the adoption of Amendment No.'3. All those in

favor say 'aye' opposed 'no' 'the 'ayes' have it and the#' #

Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 4, Harber Hall. amend House

Bill 4211. as amended, on Page 1, Section 1, Line l5, by

striking '$19,905,1421 and inserting in lieu there .$19,999:

954% and on Page 1, Section Line l8, by striking '$2,430,

685. and inserting in lieu thereof 1$2,432,685'7 and on

Page 1, Section 1, Line 19, by striking ,$91.5001 and insert

ing in lieu thereof '$96,000,7 and on Page 1, Section 1,

Line 2O, by striking '$499,500' and inserting in lieu there-

of '$500,000% ahd on Page 1, àection 1, Line 2l, by strikin

'$296,300' and inse'rting in lieu thereof '$300.00017 and

on Page 1, Section 1, Line 21p by striking 1$25,125,041' an

inserting in'lieu thereof '$25,230,553'7 and on Page 2,

Section 1, Line 3l. by striking '$65,674,5981 and inserting

in' lieu thereof 4$65,780,110'.1'A '

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr...

Mr. Henss.''

D. A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, this Amendmeni was to be offered

by Representative Harber Hall. But. ah.., in his absence,

I will offer the Amendment. 1111 tell you what it is. Ah..

I've discussed it with him. I agreed to the Amendment.

Harber Hall is a Member of the Appropriations Committee and

the Committee erroneously took $105,512 away from the I1li-

nois State University thinking that the work ah.. was going

. & > ' '. ' .XNNV J

'

f tr x,'?u:b j'G'J7ze-' G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y/ -':. a h. j1 V'Ltr , e.7 . . ' r ; s 'r A. .r s o e' I u u $ rq o I s1 ? 5** ' 'Y '' . . s ousc o F' n E e R cst:- 'r a'r 9 v ssRt. q :'*Y' . Z64 ë d '' . . . -. -. ...--- .

53.to be done by the Board of Higher Education. This is notthe case. There are no funds being appropriated to the

Board of Higher Education for the purpose. And ah.., the'

money should be put back in . It has been discussed. And, .

I agree with him. Actually ah . ., in all equity: this Amend-ment should be adopted because Illinois State Universitywas the only senior Institution in the State to receive acut in ope rating funds. And, they should be treated

equitably with the other Institutions. So, on behalf of

Representative Hall I move for the .adoption of Amendment#

NO . 4 . ' '

Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah. . Cook, Mr.

Regner.''

D. J. Regner: .'Ah.. Mt . Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, the Appropriations ah. . Committee did not take it

out erroneously. We did it on purpose. Ah.. this is a ah . .

doctor of our ah . . feasibility study. It's not a study forIllinois State but a skudy for a1l public higher educal onin Illinoisl And, we felt that this job could be done bythe Board of Higher Education

. And, in talking to the peopl ,' they said that they could ah

. . do the job. 'Thereforey wedid ah.. pass.. pass this Amendment to take this ah

. . $105,000 out of the Illinois State Budget and ah

. . request theBoard of Higher Education to do the study. And. therefor

,

urge you to ah.. ah.. to not adopt ah. . this particular

Amendment to House Bill 4211.'.

Hon. Wr Robert Blair: ''The ah. . gentleman from ah . . Lee, Mr.

. .!. 1:.9; ...a. ' ll... h;' 'TSIJ '''8J ' h.r'? 4 r 'mtl'r ''j G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y(î v' i. : , .. 1-t svavs o v. , q.u , s, o . s-.j.,,,.nï .-

2-,7 souss o. aceacss-vxx.vss

.

î.x . - ,xkpl.tù f..'' .%. 7. '-

Shapirov''

D. C. Shapiro: ''AK. . Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, it is very seldom that I rise to oppose' an opinioheld by the highly respected Chairman of the Appropriations'committee. However

, in defense of this Amendment, I amcertainly for it, I would like to state this

. I think. youare al1 aware of the turmcil that many cf the Universitiesin this State have gone throvgh in the last year in arrivin

gat their ah.. budgets with the Board of Higher Education.

And, in that process, there are funds that have been interna -ly allocated in other words, low priority programs dropped#out 'and higher priority programs placed in. And: by the 'shifting of these funds

, it freed up dollars for new progra .

This particular line item, in my opinion, is money tha6

rightfully belongs to the Illinois State University. When'

it was ah . . given to the parti'cular line' item for ah. . the

study of the doctor of our feasibility, ah. . it was moneythat rightfully belongs to I

.S.UJ In taking it out/we areactually taking monies that they worked hard to free up

.. By placing it baek in, we do not raise the General Revenue

monies above and beyond ah. . the Bill as it was introduced.

And,' I would urge everyone, in this House, to support this

particular Amendment. I.S.U. has been one of the Universiti sthat's gone along with the General Assembly and the Board

ofHigher Education. They have worked hard to mak

e every dollaeount. They deserve this money and, I think, they shouldhave it.''

. '' X

'

i '

'

J ) jj *,.. x. . . (; xhbiyb .c ',> > ' -Xq G E N E R A L A S S IJ' 51 B L Yl :..k. .'. r.xl t.) sxwvs o. , uu,sols,c w

.. k..J.n' ' ' -z' sowss ov mceasseeqxxxsves

55.

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr.

Henss.''

. D. A. Henss: .'1:11 closeo''

Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''Is it your mike? Oh1 The gentleman '

from Erankline Mr. Hart .''

Hart: ''Well, I want to ah.. join with ah.. Representa-

tive Regner, Chairman of the Appropriations committee in

opposing this Amendment. This is nothing more than just

ah.. blowing a hundred and some odd thoûsand dollars to

sangamon... to Illinois state Univeâsity to do a job that

can be done by the Board of Higher Education without any

additional appropriation. And ah. ., this Amendment is not

p Committee Amendment. The Amendment is opposed by the'

Appropriations committee. And, we feel that ah.. that the

job can be done without this money. And, therefore, we

would ask. that the House defeat this Amendment. And ah..,

leave this money out of the Bill.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Any further discussion? The gentlemanA

from ah.. McLean, Mr. Hall.''

H. H. Hall: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House. . .. .

Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, this

Amendment originally was in the Budget of Illinois State

. University. It was removed because it was considered that

the Board of Higher Education should conduct a study in the

Doctor of Arts program ah.. at that level. No money was

put in the Board of Higher Fducation for that purpose . The

Boérd is not going to do that and the job still needs to be

x% ' 1 k '.. '

à '* $. ''' :$t ;.y--'>z > G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yi jtkn ,j'k,x ) svxa.s os lut-,slo,s* ./. ,, .-r: -'.* >3. . / H otl S E Q F @ E P F? E S E N T A T I V E STr %*.A '.'.r 'ï? *.2!1 ''

56.

done. Illinois State would like to do it. They should do ' .

They're properly equipped to do it except for this minor

. funding of a hundred and five thousand dollars. And, I hope

that we will approve this Amendment .'' '

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah . . McLean. Mr.

Bradley.''

G. Bradleyl ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, vqry briefly, in urging the support of this Amend-

ment, this is a.. another instance of the Bcard of Higher

Education in mandating to one of ouf Institutions that they

do a job that the Institution is capable of doing. The Illi

nois State University is very capable of making the. . and

conducting ah.. the survey to determine ah. . this partieul'ar

program that the Board of Higher Education has asked them

to do. It's been the history of the Board of asking our

Institutions to conduct a study or a survey without finanein

the survey. And. thereby, imposing the cost upon an Insti-

tution. The hundred and five thousand dollars, although in

xve

my estimation is no small sum, is certainly due ah.. to theInstitution oE Illinois State University they are to con-

duct'this survey. And, I urgp the Members o'n this side of

the aisle ah.. not because there werp no cuts in any of the

other Institutions ah.. funds. . appropriation funds but be-

cause it is something that they have been asked to doe they' e

capable of doing. they're going to do the job. And, I urgethe people on this side of the aisle to suppo' rt this Amend-

ment . Thank you . ''

.% 9 ''.! ' r. 5 ' * '' '..', '; .t -D7z5 'q G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yj v ; .,.w j-$.

. ' t''- zyrr .j. .- ., ow ,''s'rJ; Ea : e'-s'lsl:vclsv , w cs

.' . 4 . , g.h .

'

57

Hon. w. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from oupage, Mr. Hoffman-''

G. L. Hoffman: ''Mr. speaker, will the sponsor of the Amendmen

yield to a question?u

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Ah.. he indicates that he wi11.''

G L. Hoffman: ''Ah.. Representative Hall. was this ah.. money',

which you're asking to be put back in the appropriation, was

this approved by the Board of Higher Education to be includ

in I.S.U.'S Budget as it came to Legislaturea''

H. H. Hall: ''Yes.''

G. L. koffman: ''Ah.. the answer is ah. . indicated in the

affirmative. Mr. Chair... Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gent e-

men of the House, ah.. not for that reason only, but certai -

ly as a factor. If the Board of Higher Education ah. . woul

approve the type of study that is ah . . suggested here by on

of the State Universities, I think, that this is the reasqn

able place that it be done rather than adding more and more

people in a contractural or a technical ah. . status on a

day to day basis. to the Staff of the Board of Higher Educa-tion. I think, that those Institutions

, which have the ah..

facilities and the talent and the personnel to do these typ sof studies, should do them . And, I .urge your support of th'sAmendmento''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman ah .. from Rock Island,Mr. Hensso'.

D. A. Henss: f'Mr. Speaker, in closing. I think, the point

made by the last speaker is very pertlnent. The Board ofHigher Education directed the Illincis 'state University to

.... i - I A ;. r, .., .' '' jj;'' C). .'çr' ? ,8 ,7b> tj G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YI

.jt 4.:2 -: . ;x k. (u t . j svAve os juul-ols..( ? r:' ' . ,'* .*. . . ' 84 ou s E o F R we lv c sc eI'T A.T I v Es

* '

58do this study. Now, don't.. . I questione very seriously

,whether the Committee or the Legislature, as a whole, ah..is really competent to decide whether this study should bedone by the Board of Higher Education or Illinois State

'

University as a request of the Board of Higher Education.

Either way. it's going to cost one hundred and five thousandollars. If we take it out of this Bill, welre going to havto put it in somewhere else

. And, I thinky that the.. thatit is significant that

e at least, two Members of the Appro-

priations Committee, Representative Hall and Representative

Shapiro, are in favor of adding this back in because theyfelt, at least, that it vas a mistake to take it

out. 1'11ask for your support. ''

W Robert Blair: HThe gentleman from ah. . Cook, Mr.' LechoHon. .

Niez . ''

T. S. Lechowicz: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker. and.....'' .'

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Well he. . he was closing, you know.ê

l in ah debqte. Did you have. . . .

X'Mr. Henss was c os g

. . T S

. Lechowicz': ''1'11 explain my vote. Thank you, Mr. Speake .

'' .

.

W Robert Blair: ''okay.. Alright ah. . Has there been a

Hon. .

request for a Roll Call? Oh: Alright... The question is,'

shall this Amendment No. 4 be adopted?'. All those in favo

will vote 'aye'. and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman from

Cook, Mr. Lechowicz' desire to explain his vote?l'T. Lechowicz: ''Ah

.. yes, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemenof the House, actually ah... this item 'was cut in the Appro-priations Committee on the sheer purpose. that the Board of

, .t -8 .3 ''m;x Vv G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y(L' 4-*'7- .r.&.x ': j

sxxve og 1 us,slols>.i-. ' J. t yr wï: . . /

'- . 2 *# o tl 5 E' Q F IR 1: P N E S lC bl 'r A T 1 V E: S.j ' %e' .. .

f c; . . ! . v!: . ..

59.

Higher Education has stated that they would do this study

with no additional funds. This is one of the reasons why,

I hope, that this Amendment is.defeated .''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Have p1l voted who wi'shed? The gentle-

man from Cook. Mr. Regner.''

D. J. Regner: ''Mr. Speaker, I'd like to explain my vote. The

General... The General Assembly created 'the Board of Higher

lEducation in 1961 as a coordinating.o, a Planning Agency for

all of Higher Education. It is the Board of Higher Educa-

tion's responsibility to conduct feasibility studies that

affect all of Higher Educaticn in Illinois. And, I wonder

why a million dollar budget is needed by the Board of Higher

Education for coordinating and 'planning state-wide studies

are to be done by individual Universities at additional

costs. The Board of Higher Education justifies the high

salaries of their employees on the basis that you must pay

a high price to get the most competent people. Howevev, the

Bbard now employs six or more people at a annual salary ofxA .

$28,000 or more. And, theylve just recently hired a Deputy

Director for $40.000. And: I wonder why we still have to

pay an additional $105,000 for a study at Illinois State

University when we' are paying almost a million 'dollars a yea

for the Illinois Board of Higher Education to conduct just

these various studies. And ah.., this is why I'm voting ah. .

voting 'no' on this Amendment. And: I would urge all of the

Members to do so.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah.. McLean, Mr. Hal .''

' k e' Jk k7'' '; Q. j'cpzvl G E N E R A L A s s E M B L Yl v .: o I . .ux 1; r-'.tk . '< U' J . s'rx'rs oe 1 uul Nols

. / ' 7 .nC . . .. 5 ..* '. . . H o tl s u: o F R c e ra e: s c b1 'r a 'r I v c s*: .t &e%'6 ' ''

60.

H. Hall: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladi es and Gentlemen of the Hous e

I've never hesitated to exercise thrifty decisions and. . in

matters of economy at the University of Illinoe State or

any other University. This is the first time that I've eve

risen to make an addition to the Universiky Budget on the

floor of the House. This money is for a good program, a

Doctorate of Arts. If.. If it.. If the'study in the Doctor

ate of Arts is properly formed. it will take money. No mone

is in any budget to do this program . And yet, it has been

requested by the Board of Higher Education. We believe that

the Illinois State University is properly equipped in Staff

to perform a very good study in this Doctorate Program . A

hundred and five thousand dollârs is al1 welre asking to put

back into the budget, that was originally in the Governor's

Budget for Higher Education for this Institution. So, IE

.

respectfully request that you give this some thought and ..

.i and ah. . see fit to ah.. to include this back into the.budgeI

' for this University which I have to remind this Body that ha

'

been probably in the leadership in their willingness to ah. .

reduce their budget and contain the ah.. ah.. size of their

budget, b0th in this year and in previo'us years, to where

they are ah.. havlng to release personnel and theyrre. .

they've cut much fat out of their okn budget and they're

opera ting on a very austere basis. But, this hundred and

five thousand dollars. if they are to do the job, ah. . will

have to be approved.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah . . Rock Island,

d .> * ZJ eùk11 1 e., ? h ; v',> r G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y'j t::: s J',m !

- svwvs os Iuu,so,sf .. :ç-.j -? nz.. . ,. ouss os aseassc-vwvlw cs1-

-- ,.%. '

- z... . - H ...:t, f a ;. rs . . , ë!

6l.

Mr. Henss.''

A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the HoB eê

when the Appropriations Committee considered a budget in

Higher Educatione the Illinois State University was the onl

senior Institution in the State of Illinois to receive a

cut in operating funds. This one hundred and five thousand

dollars was that cut. No other Menior Institution in I1li-

nois received any cut in operating funds ah. . from the

Committee. Instead. Nith a wave of a magic wand, we find '

the Committee adding on over six hundred thousand'dollars

for operatidn at a our biggest and richest Institution.

Where is the equity in that? Please vote to add back an

amount which was khoroughly considered by the Board of

Higher Education for a job which was requested by the Board

of Higher Education.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Have all voted who wished? The Clerk

will take the record. On this question, there are 76 'Nays',

and 62 'Yeamt and the Amendment is lost m''

Fredric B. Selcke: l'Amendment No. N.Hanahan, amend House Bill

4211 on Page 12 by inserting immediately belQw Line l the

following: 'Section 9. Any expenditures under this Act

must be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates

as established by public policy'; and in line 2 by deleting

the number and inserting in lieu thereof the number 1101..'

Hon. W. 'Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah. . McHenrye Mr.

Hanahan.''

T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. don't

.. . : w I A ,,.. x' (j zvt .àJ.+-7n % G E N E 11 A L A S S E M B L YUf

,. 1i ç. pt.t . i .tJ . s'rave os I uulaolst-r'y ,.r-. . - ..,,/ j, o w s s o g. r4 t.: e r4 s s c rq v A. x. l v s s 'd! r 4. %P .'''

. oa

believe that there is opposition to this Amendment. Ah..

what has happened over the years is that the prevai'ling

rate has been included in all the ah.. University' Budgets.

This is the reaffirmation similar to what has happened when'

. .

Nixon... when the President of the United States froze the

prevailing wage around the United States is a lot of questi

in the Universitips and other public bodies on exactly

whether or not we should continue with the established publi

policy of paying prevailing rates. This Amendment would

mandate the University System to ah.. pay the prevailing

rates according to Law. I move its adoption-''

Hon. W. Robert Blairi ''The gentleman from Rock Island, Mr.

Henss . ''

D. A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, will the Sponsor of the AmeMdment

yield to a question or two? Representative Hanahan, as I

look at the Amendment here, you say that the 'expenditures

will be spend in compliance with prevailing wage rates as

established by public policy' Now, that language'is a lit le.!

bit loose, I thinke but, my question is, are you.. when you

talk about it 'established by public policy', you're talkin

about the Statutes of the State of Illinois.''

T. J. Hanahan: ''Thatls right.''

D. A. Henss: ''How does your Amendment add anything to the exis -

ing Law under which the ah.. Universities must operate?''

T. J. Hanahan: ''l thought I explained that. When President

Nixon ordered the wage freeze in the 'Construction Industry,

which covers the prevailing rate and prevailing wage Law of

;,A :-,>.--,. c E x E R A t. A s s E M 1, L, v2. ? . $l j k*.1:1 u 7 ,k,. 'j(Jwt . J s.ra'rc oc It-ulNols. 'L.? .-''. ', H o u s e o s a c e R s s e N v A. v $ v t.: st ,: r!' '

Illinois, there's much question in the eyes of the administr -

i blic bodies in the State of illinoistors of the var ous puon whether or not they had to comply with either èhe StateLaw or the expressed desires of the President of the UnitedStates. This would reaffirm the Stat

ute of the State ofIllinois thatîs been on the Books since 1941 that we villpay the Union Rate or the prevailing rate of an area for

ditures of State Funds. That's all thks Amendmentexpendoes . ''

D. A. éenss: ''Well, 1.. . Mr. Speaker, I think, the language

is a little bit loose. Ah.. it could be stated more speci-fically but I don't see that it does any ah.. damage to theBill. Andy I do not oppose the Amendment-''

Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''Is there further discussion? A AollCall has been requested? Alright

. . All those in favor df

the adoption of the AMendment will vot'e 'aye' and the oppos d#'no '. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Regner.'' '

''Ah Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlehen ofD. J. Regner: ..

A 'd like to explain my vote. Ah.. this is ah ..the House, I

one in a series of Amendments on the various Higher Educatio -al Bills ah.. to ah. . pay a prevailing rate. Ah .. if tbi sAmèndment and the Amendments on the other Bill

s get adopted,ah.. we're going to require additional funds of close tonine million dollars for wage rates

. In the Governoz'sBudget and in the Bills, as presented, they provide for the

four percent pay raise ah. . for all personnel ah . . academic

and non-academic. Ah. . these Amendments on this Bill and

.. . vx tq * : '.'; 'î * 'ù c E N E R A L, A s s E M B t. YIî .:.i-R17Nt' c 27.*- :) sxwve or- lvulstcylsï y.A . .;. (./ ,TY'' .;' sou sc o e a sr, r4 t sc :1 A. A 'r $ v cs' è: 111' ' 11*''*'

' 64.further Bills will increase the non-academic pay raises toah.. about five and a half percent which is one and a half

. percent over and above the rest of the ah . . ah.. the employ es

of the State Universities. think. the four percent i: 'fair. It's across the Board and I would urge the defeat

of this Amendmlnte''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Have all voted who wished? The Clerk

will take the recokd. Simms.vlnoî. Timothy .simms. On this

question, there are 95 'Ayes'e and 37 lNays' and the Amend-

ment is adopted. Is there ah. . . . ''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''AK . . Amendment No. 6: Hanahan, amend HousBill 4211, as amended, on Page 1, Section l on Line 15. by

striking 119,999,954. and inserting in lieu thereof '$2Q,71 p

054.: and on Page Line b# striking '$28,215,252' andinserting in lieu thereof '$28,933,352.) and on Page 1,Line 29 by striking '$25.734,815' and inserting in lieu

thereof ,$26,686,715'2 and on Page 2, Line 5 by striking

:$36,906,7881 and inserting in lieu thereof .$37.858,688'2

--e .

and on Page 2, Line 31 by striking .$73,631,212. and insert-ing in lieu thereof '$75,301,2121.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentlqman from Rock Island, Repre-

sentative Henss.''

D. A . Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, ah.. I've not seen this Amendment

but I've tried to listen as the Clerk read it and I questionvery seriously whether it is in order . It seem to me that

they're striking figures whiph are no longer in the Bill.$'Rep. Arthur A. Telcserl ''The gentleman from McFlenry

, Repre-

.. . a , q.,'? b ; rR> . G E N E R A t, A S S E M B L Yj' Ct'-c '' t.s. j x xvs o Is j uuI x o , s$.-/ J s

. ? -.5 ' ' - .* tda . . ..' H D tl SE o F R E PR e:Sf: NY A T 1 V ES .'xC . . 1W':..::! ......

65

sentative Hanahan.''

T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker: this is exactly the point that

I raised earlier before we adopted any Amendments.'

I'm not

a mind-reader. I do not know what Amendments the House of

Representatives would adopt or would nct adopt. The Amendc

ment is drafted in good faith and offered to the House of

Representatives to be voted on as a ver y important issues

involved here in this Amendment. And, before it's ruled out

of the record, either I'd like the Bill held ncw as presentl

amended so I could properly amend the Bill or draft an Amend

ment or to have the Clerk change the figures accordingly

to what is... the Bill at present. And. I respectfully re-

quest that consideration be granted.n

A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, there is a method of. . of ah.'. han

ling this. The gentleman should have anticipated, I belveve,

by striking the entire line and having the line ah. . ah..

written back in in the manner he chose . He didn't have to

make referenee to a specific figure -''

T. J. Hanahan: ''I beg your pardon . There's no way of doing it .

Youlve checked.... Check with the Clerk. . . with the Referenc

Bureau. And, if they can do it, they're houdinis.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Ah . . with leave ah.., Representative

Henss, ah.. can we take this out of the record right now,

leave on the order of Sqcond while we look over the Amendment?''

D. A. Henss: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, I've been ah. sitting on the

edge cf my chair waiting for this Bill uto be called for ah..

I . x r ''>.e i%% RJ ''4 . j'b j 5

,' : .: f'''l'?x c G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y ( liJ 's 5 7.* .! . ) s'r- 'I'E o P- 1 ut-l el o IsI i l . ' . 'kg r. . .. / H o k; 5 t: o F !: E P R E s E N 'F A T 1 V C S* t dl ... e%!7'' '-q --. '

66

quite some time, I think, as you... as you know. What.. .

What WOU1d Yhe Schedule be then? I would definitely like '

to move ahead with the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''We'll come right back to it today.

Ah . . . ''

D. A. Henss: ''It'1l be soon?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcsqr: ''Yeah . . .''

D. A. Henss: ''Alright.w''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Okay. .. House Bill 4215..'

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4215, a Bill for an Act to make

certain appropriation, reappropriation for the Board of

Trustees of the Un'iversity of Illinois. Second Reading ofthe Bill. Ah.. Three.. Three Committee Amendments

. Amen -

ment No. amend House Bill 4215 on Page 1: Line ll/and-

soforth.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Champaign, Repren

entative clabaugh . '' 's

c . W . clabaugh : '.1. think, Mr. Speaker, I 1 d like to ficilitateA

matters on this first Amendment. Itls made up of several'

parts. First. the Amendment simply changes on Page ah. . 1,

Line 3. It adds twenty-nine thousand plus dollars for theah.. exercise Therapeutic Clinic in the Department of ah

. . .

ah... in the College of Physical Education. And, the next

one on Page 2, Line 2, is where we add that three million

dollars that I mentioned that we took out of the Bitl a fewminutes ago and it comes in here

. And, on Page 2, Line 6,there's some changing around but therets no addition of mone

... k ...1 'k ,' ? 3.1 'D> '< G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y/?- T/-yv

, t) -,.;.:1 srxx.s o, ,y...,-o,s* &..g- . / H okl SE t; F R C

en ESE N T A.T I V ES* ' * Z2 #' % ** '!. .t. C ... ''

67.

there. But, there's a changing around of the figures that

was ah.. put in for the crippled children's ah.. money. one

. change from three hundred and twelvq to two hundred and

sixty-seven thousands of dollars. And, on Page ah..2. Line.

by changing ah.. the total sums there of $540,000. And.

the Amendment was adopted by the Copmittee unanimously, Mr.

speaker. And, I move the adoption of Amendment No.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle

man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No.' 1, to

House Bill 4215. All those in favor of the adoption signif

by saying 'aye'e the opposed 'no' the Amendment is adopted.#

Are there further Amendments?''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2, amend House Bill 4215

on Page 3, Section 4. Line l5e by striking .$82,007,200, an

inserting in lieu thereof 1$58,075,000% ands.oforth-'' '

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Champaign, Repre-

sentative Clabaugh-''

C. W. Clabaugh: ''That was not my Amendment. Mr. Speaker. Tha

was the Amendment of the ah.. CommitYee.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Regner.''

D. J. Regner: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, this was a ah.. Committee Amendment. And, what

it does it deletes three projects from the Chicago Circle

Campus, one is an addition to the ah.. Library Building,

ah.. the signs in the Engineering Building, and an additicn

to' the power plant which wouldn't be necessary if the other

... . .jït k k; f .' t' . ..j --l7Qr) G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yj :2,. t '.: $,.) j . svavs orr ,uulslolsf , .o i q?X ,X ' ' *; s o k, s r o F a c e R E s E a T' A Y 1 V C S4t . +%* ..?

t.... -' .--

' 68

two projects are taken out. And ah... was the consensus of

the Members of the Appropriation Committee to adopi this

Amehdment. And, what it does. the total changes 'in the Bi1

is a reduction of $23.932.200. Ah.. and I ah.. move the

adoption of Amendment No.'2, to House Bill 4215.'.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle

man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 2,

to House Bill 4215. All those in favor of the adoption

signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no'e the Amendment

is'adopted. Are there further Amendments?''

Fredric B. Selcke: nCommittee Amendments three and four were

tabled in Committèe. Wefll go to Committee Amendment No. 5.

Amend House Bill 4215 by adding after Line 24 on Page 8

the following-a-o''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Represehta-

tive Regner.n

D. J. Regner: ''Al1 this Amendment does is ah.. make the effeè

tive date of the Act, July 1. 1972. I urge the adoption

of Amendment 5, to House' Bill 4215..'

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The genG tB

man... The gentleman from Cooke Representative Simmons.''

A. E. Simmons: ''Creates Section 9. And, I have another Amend-

ment on my desk that hasn't been read yet creating another

Section 9..'

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there a number on that Amendment,

Representative Simmons? Ah- Amendments No. and 4 were

tabled in Committee. Ip that one of 'those two Amendments?

/Qt 8, j -->,gcNy G E N E 11 A L A S S E M 8 L Y

! ; ké 1. ;'t.-r. . ' ', a ') '- ) s v x .r c o s' , u u I .q o I s.

't -.;' =' .,' souse os acescsssvarlvssx

' #. '( ' t z z. wasF. '

' 69.

Okay..''

E. Simmons: nIt's okay now: but the next Amendment ah..' there's something wrong with it-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Okay.. The gentleman has offered to'

move the adoption of Amendment No. to House Bill 4215.

A1l in favor signify by saying 'aye' the opposed Ano', the# .

Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 6, Borchers, amend House

Bill 4215 on Page 8, by inserting immediately after Section

9 the following: 'Section l0. No contract shall be entere

into or obligation incurred for any expenditure from the

appropriations made in Sections le 2 and 3 of this Act for

the employment of Lou Gold, Instructor of Political Sctende

at the University of Illinois'.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Macon, Representa

tive Borchers.''

W. Borchers: ''Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members of the House, I

would like to show you files upon this gentleman. Here is,xe

I won't read them all or I'd be here for about an hour, I

just want to read a couple of statements frcm this. This

is the ah.. Daily Illini, 'Lou Gold, a controversial instru -

tor of political science working under terminal contract

this year, will be allowed to stay at the Universi... Uni..

University as a lechurer for one more year'. This has

happened twice. 'Each time the question of Gold's contract

came up within the Collegeg the political science departmen

recommended that he be retained. And, each time the Colleg

. s * k'' ' >...:#s % $) r' .c s.''?M i -7D> zr G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ykf-t:? : .. ., t.<-t ïf.ê î tlt z

'

,c': .J.

-

,7 sousssToaerl t''seF-a'lst-si-b'xox' 't . v e s .. . f ;.y . % .s... e'

' 70.

k 'has given him a tem inal contract . There is . however. st o g

feeling within the political science department thât the

College wanted to get rid of Gold because of his teaching

style and radical activism'. I won't read any more. But.

as a result of this radical activism, two years ago, he

contributed. through his radicalism, teaching in his classes,

he contributed $40,000 worth of damage to Greene Street and

Plate Glass Windows. Now, just last... a m'onth ago, there

was more activity on the campus. Here are some in the

Daily Illini, 'Protestors Hit Campus stores' which he con-

tributed by his speeches. 'The Police Chief Tend To Assert

six Arrested in Ahti-War Protests' 'Campus Looters on a#

Rampage', Headlines: 'Campus Protests, Eruption and Looting'.

These are from the Currier, the Daily Illini and the'News

Gazette. Letters on the matter. 'Thirty-Eight Arresued'

in the Schunutte Protests'. He has twice been arrested for

leading groups of students in proEests which, if he wants

to do that on his own time, Qkay. If he wants to be ah..

Buty if he has no right to block the.. the activities. the

interests. the egress oE other citizens about their lawful

business. He's been arrested in the ah.. in the ah.. ah..

the County Clerk's Office in Champaign and at Schunutte

Air Force Base. What his present status hise with ah.. the

numerous arrests and actiyities, I don't know. I just know

that they continu- . ah.. continue his ah.. terminal contrac

year by year. And, I think, it's time that we, as a Legis-

lature, give a hint to the Universityuthat 'terminal' means

(*, 4 ' 'c c s x E R A j- A s s E M B L v/oy'?J''7?> 'àœ

'

T 1 . p . i *!; u$ % ? r 1 J ) s v A. v s o Ir I u u 1 el o I sU

sl. ,? e ' . ' .z '/ s o u s s . o p. a s 'e n s s e: a v. A x I v u s* . tv . ,Rl * %* ' '4: 2 ,x .'.- . ! - '-

7l.'terminal'. nec/use, if the way theydre going now

,

it'll be another ten years before we see the'gentleman putoff the campus and the teaching of the radicalism that's

now exisking in his classes. So, I move the adoption of.k

this Amendmentw''

A th A 'l' tc'ar: .'Is there any discussion? The gentleRep. r ur . c =

man from Cook, Representative Berman .''

lA. L. Berman: ''WVIJ the Sponsor yield?''4 7 . .

Rep. Arthur A. Tercsor: ''He indicates he will.''$

A. L. Berman: ''Ah.. Representative Borchers, I1m sorry that Ididn't hear some of the opening remarks. But, is this man

ah.. covered by the Civil Service ah. . provision of the

Universitya''

W. Borchers: ''I can't .answer that. He has been given two

terminal contracts. And, each time, they have been extende .''

A. L. Berman: ''Ah.. by whose declsiona''

W. Borcéers: ''Evidently, by the ah.. by the College of Politic l

Science. Ah.. the University has given him the ah. . the..

.A '' the terminal contract twice. This is according tc the news-

paper articles. Ah...''

A. L. Berman: ''Have you had a chance to lo'ok at the ah.. at

his personnel file'to determine the basis upnn which hisemployment was extendedr'

W. Borchers: ''I have not. But, I've seen the police fileso''

A . L . Berman : '' Pardcza . ''

'

W. Borehers: ''r say: have no6 seen his personnel file, but I

know of his polico record-''

...' xN1 * 11 v './'s . /,.7?> ' J'' r! 1.1 E R A L A S S E M B L YEr kij .2 : 'rh ' i k.?$. !) -. fx'vi . . ) s'ra'rc oy- Iuul pl o1s

. ; j, -:*.'. . 5'. . t* 5'.d; . z' t4tlusez OF REea ESENTAT'IV Esf? %* 'Zf . z. .$ , . !y., . e'

y2A. L. Berman: ''Ah. . what... Has he been convicted of any crim ?''

W. Borchersz ''I believe, b0th cases are still .in the matter othe Court.''

A. L. Berman: ''Wel1p there's no convietion against this per-

SUWO i'

W. Borchersf ''No there is not at the moment, as far as I kno .#

But this time there may'be. I don't know what's happenedr ? . # in the last ten days.. two weeks.'.i

i A. Berman: ''Do we have any ah. . evidence that would justif

ah.. adoption of this kind of an Amendment besides ah. . news-

paper articles and ah.. pending court cases?''

W. Borchers: ''Well ah.., no, there's no other evidence. But, .

I think, it's rather self-evidcnt by t.he activities of the

University that he has contributed by this radical ah. .

teachings in his classes to the extensive damage on the

University of Illinois Campus-''

A. L. Berman: ''Well, Speaker, if I'may address myself,very briefly, to this Amendment-

''

.M '' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Proceed: Sir.''

L. Berman: ''I think, wedre letting into a very dangerous

area where, without any substance of pröof of any crimes

being ccmmitted, wt are beinq askid, by this Amendment, to

place our determination, I think, into an area of freedom

of speech, the freedom of. . of the academic community as to

what this begislature feels is the proper way for an instruc

tor to conduet his courses when we have already delegated

that responsibility to an Administration to a Civil Service

o A 'XN ' ..;k.. > hkp ')h. .'.$ k''-rrv G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y16 (.&.,tt.,JJz.,Jë svavc os ,uu.xo,s. * . ty/w ., ..:7 . . . a o qj s r: o s a s e n s s c pj x s v I w c s''N.Y :1:'* %.*' ''X

73.Setup which has found fit, upon a careful evaluation, appar.nt-lye to allow this gentleman to continue in the employment

of the University. for one, think that it's a very bâdprecedence. I think, that we do not have any facts upon

which to base a judgement in support of this Amendment.

And, I would respectfully urge that this Amendment ah... nobe adopted. And: I would recall

.. . request a Roll Call

vote, Mr. ah.. Speaker.n

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Rock Island, Repre

sentative Pappas.''

P. Pappas: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House.I don't know this Lou Gold, that is mentioned in the Amend-

ment, but I do know that the University of Illinois is rne

of the outstandihg Universities of this World. It consiste -

ly ranked in the top ten in the United States and it did no

achieve that position with unsound decisions nor with the...nor can the University maintain that position with the heavhand of the Legislature hiring and firing their academicpersonnel.- The University's AdminisEration is quite capableof handling its problems. The Legislature should not takethis kind of a decision. We have no Persosnel Department .

We don't know about this gentleman. It may well be that heis a pretty bad character. I suspect that that is a possi

bility. But, the University can handle the situation andwe should stay out of it.

''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there. .. The gentleman from Cook

Representative B. B. Wolfe-''

.. ' ;. . p , .-', ,;: t, rf %e'''./' ; . .) '-T>. h, G E N E R A L A S S E 5 1 l 1 L Y( i U' k .. ' 7*) t sv .vs o s , uu, ,., o I s'. tt, ),'.'s,:... .,.1

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74.

B. B. Wolfe: ''Ah.. thank you. Just briefly, Mr. Speaker, I

think, that ah.. Chairman Henss of the Education... of the

Higher Educaticn Committee has. made a very valid point, that

it would be very dangerous for this House to adopt such an

Amendment because then we would be placing ourselves as a

substitute for administrators all over the State that are

operqting and running ah.. Colleges. And, we would be doing

the hiring.... And, eventually, we wculd be doing the'

. jhiring and firing of ah. . personnel. I think, that ah.. we

! should well leave this matter to the University Administrato s.

And, if he's to be terminated. it should be under proper

procedure. Thank you.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Ccok, Representa-

tive J. J. Wolf.''

J. J. Wolf: ''Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gehtleman has moved the previou's

question. All those in favor signi/y by saying 'aye', the

opposed 'no' the gentleman's motion prevails. And the# :A '

gentleman from Macon, Representative Borchers, to close the

debate.''

Borchers: ''Gentlemen, I ah.. concur with what ah.. the Chai -

man of the Highert.. the ah.. the Higher Education Committee

has said and what some other gentleman here have said in rel -

tion to our... we entering into the internal affairs of the

University. concur. I put in this Amendment to draw

attention to the University; that we are aware of these thin s.

. feel that, by doing this, that we will encourage the Uni-

. ) .r .'îh -cce c E N E R A t. A s s E M B L v/';g j;..; : j. , trj ç. t s ; s'r X'I' c o Izb I ut-, N o I sj .g +. . . .* ' :.' J . . H o tl s E o F 12 q: P Fl E s E$ N 'r A. T 1 v' E 5*, . -- . e s*. ''

'

75versity, if they're going to give him a terminal contract,to give the gentleman a terminal contract and stick to it.A1l .1 would like to have here, actually, is just enough voteto defeat my Amendment. I ah.. ltat's a peculiar thing to

say and I'm well aware of it. But, think, we should cometo a close vote on this to indicate to the University thatwe do expect them to act in cases like this and not ah.. continually extend, time after time, their actions. Thank you .

''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall Amendment

No. 6, to House Bill 4215 be adopted?'. All those in favor

signify by voting 'aye', the opyc sed by voting 'no'. Thegentleman from Cook Representative B

. B. Wolfe, to explain#his vote.''

B B. Wolfe: ''No I was going to ah. . ask to table the Am' end-* ' .

ment, Mr. Speaker, on a oral Roll Cal1.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Champaigne Repre- .sentative Hirschfeld-

''

! J C. Hirschfeld: nThank youe Mr. Speaker and Ladies a'nd Gentl -

*

men of the House, I'm very tempted to vote in favor of this'

particular Amendment because, having lived and now living in

the City of Champaign-urbana, feel that RepresentativeBor'chers is going to pay Professor Gold exactly what hisservices are worth to the University of Illinois which iszero. On the other hand I am persuaded by the a

rguments of# .my good friend, Representative Berman

, that what we are doinis injecting the Legislative Nose into 'Educati

on. So, I'malso tempted to vote lno' except that IKm afraid that a nega

j'û ./'' 't.z'D>% G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ye. .;.y. g! o.( . . j svwve oe Iuvlaojs. ' t J r7 ' ' . ouss oe .nceaese-vl'rtv es4. . . H*' v r-'' e*

'

76.tive vote might make Professor Gold feel th

at we are condon-ing his services. Therefore, ask permission of the Chair

to be recorded as 'present'- ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Record Representative Hirschfeld as 'voting 'present'. The gentleman from McLean. RepresentativeHall . ''

H. H. Hal1: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of theHouse, it may be recalled here that two years ago, I intro-duced a similar subtracting budgetary for salary Amendmentto reduce the budget for 'Illinois State University by the

amount of a gentleman's salary who was, apparently, the same

bent as ah.. Mr. Gold at Illinois. . . at the University ofIllincis. Ah.. this Legisiature saw fit ah

. . to pass thatah.. Reducing Amendment. It had a solutary ef.fect upon that

particular gentleman and some of the aciivities on the campuof Illinois State. But

, because I have to agree with the

honored Representative from Rock Island, that this should

not be a common-place practice to inject ourselves into thepersonnel de'cisions of our Universitiés

, I would like to berecorded as voting 'present' ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''J. J. Wolf... 'present'. The gentle-

man from Cook, Representative Scariano .''q *

'

A. Scariano: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, in behalf of my Colleagues, Representative Thompson and Brenne and

Reprasentatives Palmer, Yourell and Kipley, I1d like to in-troduce ah.. the Dolton Girl Scout Troop 169k Mr

s. Danco andMrse Gannon, their Leaders, right here on the right side of

. . A -' m.

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'

:

--

7 7the Gallery- r'Thny're from Dolton

, Illinois-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook. Representa-:

tive Maragos.''

S. C. Maragos: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, also on

behalf of Reprpsentative Collins, Representative Lenard and

Myself, I'd l5.lce I-o introduce another Troop from DoltoneIllinois. Butr it happens to be the Thirtieth District.And, that ah.. ihat's ah.. Girl Scout'Troop Number ah

. .. fro: ..7' 'Dolton, and theyvre also up in the Balcony

.''

Rep. Arthur Teâcser: ''The gentleman from Champaign, Repre-J.sentative clabpugh . ''

r .C. W. Clabaugh: ''Mr. S'peaker and Members of the House. a look

at the Board shows that I'm voting 'grpen', I'm voting 'aye'

on tM s Amendment. It was my intention, for some weeks whe

this Bill got on the floor, to offer the very Amendment thahas... that you have before you

. Nowe I realize that thisis new in Illinois but this kind of ah

. . action is not without precedence. Back during the first years after World WaII4 when many of the Federal Departments in Washington werecrawling with subvqrsives and every oiher kind of undesirablpersons, it wasne't unusual at all for extlusions like thistd have been made-in some Bills that th

e congress passed.Now, I'm not critical of the University of Illinois becausethey are doing just what every other Higher Insti

. . . Insti-tution of Higher Learning are doing

. .My friend from RockIsland referred to the ah

. . prestige cf the University ofIllinois and it has great prestige

, I hope, over the last

w . 1-.z. s% j : ,'q), a''-lM > C E *a f R A L A S S E M B L Y''v 7 l-r-.: z

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78.

thirty ye:rs that that had something to do, possibly, with

it. But, it didn't gain any prestige by having creatures

like Lou Gold teaching there. Now, this is all balony that

the University should not be concerned with anything that '

any of its employees do when they're not in classes. This

man. possi..w could not possibly be a. . a teacher in any

sense of the word that we expect a professional man to be

whek he's been out three or four times this year leading ah. .

groups in al1 kinds of violence. Proof. . . Proof in Courts

really doesn't mean very mùch any more ah.. when it comes

to people's conduct. He was arrested in the ah .. in the

Office of the County Clerk because he wouldn't get out when

he was asked to get oute ah.. when they were closing onp

night. He did lead, within the past month, a group of peopl

up to Schunutte Field to.. to ah.. put o'n some fake waf

criminal trials at the gates of Schunutte Pield, had a littl

too good of sense to go on the grounds because then they

would have been taken to the Pederal Court outside of the.v,'

feeling cf the University and: probably, wouldn't have faire

so well. But, he did get himself arrested and there were

thirteen other'full professors and one half'time professor .I

that got themselves arrested and took along twenty-five unde -

graduate students along with them. Now, if you go over ther

now and walk around some of those buildi ngs and see the ah . .

not only on the campus: but'off the campus and see the

destruction that has been caused and, I would say, by studen s

and this man was one of the leading, if not the leading caus

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'

79

of those things, you would feel just a little bit different

about it. Higher Education in this Nation is sick. It's

awfully sick. 1'11 give you two quick examples. One man w '

convicted of violence and about everything else, except rape

and murder, ah.. in some of the University protests. He wâs

finally diseharged from the University of Illinois and thearms of Washington. State University were open to him and he

went right out there and got on the payroll. 'Another one

did the same thing and his. . his ah. crime was hit a State

Policeman in the mouth with a ah . . chunk of concrete and he'

still on ah.. oh.. some kind of ah. . appeal and he went out

to the University èf Vermouth and got a job immediatelyeknowing his record ' everybody there knew his record

. Now,#

' a ing that it's going to take some drastic action's likeI m s y

ah.. Representative Borchers has akked here to wake some

of khese people up. As I say. I'm not critical of the Uni-

versity....''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Shea for what purpose#

Ado you rise, Sir.

''

c. W. Clabaugh: ''l did make some inquiries. o - w

''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nRepresentativç Shea. Representa-

tive Clabaugh, could you ah . . wait a moment, please?''

W. Shea: ''I don't think the floor of the House of Repre-

sentatives of this State is the place to take apart a Colleg

Professor. We pay the Administrators at the University goodsalaries and..... ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Miller for what pur-

.. '; J '' .w ',.. !. A ..f .w % t ,..$..-b. 'rT('a e G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y' î:l j-ex t

vavs o,r , uu, aols1 ..N's'.t . . . j s'. ( p n.: . . . - . v: a s e a s s c sj x g x 1 v s s* ,. H ous e: o' 17-1/*-*/

. .

8O.pose do you rise, Sir?''

P. J. Miller: ''Wel1, I think, that ah .. Representative Shea. . . . . . ..1i

s out of brder. Ah. . he doesn't raise a point of parl..-of proeedure. .He's ah.. ah.. attacking a man in the middle

... tt . -of'a speech. The gentleman, Mr. Clabaugh, was explainingah'.. his vote and he was discussing the issue. And, he getsup and takes issuance. He's out of order: If he were rais-

.ing. a pcint of parliamentary procedure, I could see it

v''. s' . . i

Rep. érthklr A. Telcser: ''Cculd you please state your pointe;.%f T . .

Representative Shea? Do. . Do you have a parliamentary pôint

you wish to ah.. to persue, Sir?''

G. W. Shea: justg./ I just wonder if this is the place todebate this type of issue?''

Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''Well, the Amendment deals with anindividuale Representative Shea. It seems to the Chair thatit ah.. deals. . .. ''

G. Wa Shea: ''It deals with reducing a budget item, doesnîxt. it?'

Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''It doese in part, Representative Shea.

But: the Chair Vill rule that Representative Clabaugh wasproper in his ah.. remarks

-''

!C. W. Clabaugh: think

, Mr. Speaker, that I've been very .

tolerable of a lot cf other people that, I thought, was

dragging a lot of muckrake in on this'floor at many times on

less important public issues than this. And, appreeiateyour letting me finish

. 1$11 finish in just a moment. The

reason that I didn't introduce this kind of an Amendment.

Afte'r I checked baek into this mun's record and his standing. . . A

'

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'

.-# u .

8l.at the University of Illinois, I am convinced, pretty thor-oughly convinced, though I have not in any way been promise ,that he won't be around. Bute I wish this got 89 or 90 or

95 votes and maybe it would detour some of these ah.. equallvicious but a little' less militant people to behave them-selves and go ahead and teach your sons and mine ah.. they

way they should be instead of propagandizing them all of thetime. And, I vote' 'ayef Mr

. Speaker.''#

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Moultrie, Repre-sentative Stone.''

P. Stone: ''Mr. Speaker, may I please be recorded as 'presenti?'

Rep. Arthur A. Telscer: ''Record the gentleman as voting'present'. stone. The gentleman from McLean: RepresentativBradleyw''

G. A. Bradley: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

Housee I may find myself in sympathy with the Amendment that'sbeing offered and discussed here this afternoon . However,

as was pointed out earlierrah.. in the debate, we had a simi ar.M .piece of Legislation offered and passed by b0th Houses and

signed by the Governor some two years ago ah. . taking a..

a direct cut from a Professor at Illinois Siate University.I was in sympathy with that piece of Legislation also. How-ever, did not come anywhere close to doing th

e job that'sbeing proposed that this Amendment will do

. All that it wildo and all we're doing today and al1 that Amendment did was

cut the appropriation the personal service appropriation,and. thereby, cut the salary percentage-wise for every facult

r.. v qj r, .. ,2j zj.n% G E x E R A t, A s s E M B 1- Y: y ...ï , , ja.J ii t ' r r'Y œ smavc o s I ut-l sl o,sf- '' . !/

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, s %* e''!. !J. ?r -' ' .'. . . .. .' ' '

. '

g 2

member at the University of Illinois. If you could be spe-

cific and spell out the man's name and ah.. cut his' salary

specific and not have it pertain to anybody else/ it would .be a good piece of Legislation. But, believe me, all you're

doing here today is eutting the pereentage-wise the salary'

of every professor at the University of Illinois .''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcsçr: ''The gentleman frcm Cook. Representa-

tive Simmons.''

E. Simmons: ''We1l, in response to the gentleman that just

spoke, ah.. the Amendment that I read does.. is very specifi .

I And, it reads this way, 'no contract shall be entered intoI .I cr obligation incurred for any expenditures from the appro-

'priations made in sections 1, and 3 of this Act for the

employment of Lou Gold, instructor of political sciente at

i it of Illinois' I think that is very splcificthe Un vers y . . ,and that's why I1m voting 'yesl n

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: 'lHave all... The gentleman from Ccok

Representative Katz.''

QAh I ah.. just simply want to observe in passinH. A. Katz: ..

here that we have a Constitutional Prohibition against a Bil

of Attainder. There has been a United State's Supreme Court

De'cision that holds that the Legislature may not prohibit

the expenditure of money for a particular inéividual. Thisis clearly an Unconstitutional Act. Ande those of us, who

support the Constitution and those who say they do and who

are against professors who don't, should show that they sup-

port it right down the line. And, they should do so by re-

. 'I y;'./ 1 g'''r.rrzfc G E N E R A L A S S E M 1) L Yl . jtjji l . ..r . j a a. j1 v t

. . t U ) sm-'rc oe- . Iuulaoss/ > .z. , .* # ' . '' .. Housc o F ace!v ssua'r A'rl v Es'' . , !%! '. !-f!':.... '

- . ..

aaspecting the United State's Supreme Court Opinion

, that a

Legislature may not pass a Bill of Attainder. against a spe-#

cific individual, constitutionally .''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: BThe gentleman from Macon, Representa-

7tive Borchers.''

W. Borchers: ''Mr. Speaker and Eellow Members of the House, 11

made a pretty close estimate of the vote .up there. And, IIdo appreci.. . and in explaining my vote, ah.. I ah.. I ah..r . .

appreciate Repcesentative Clabaugh's ah. . ah.. position.

Ah.. but, I do tbinke that it would nice if about three more.12 .

'green' or four Rore 'greens lights went up there. And#

think, that the hinE will be taken. We've got some reporter

over here from Champaign-urbana' and it's bound ah.. to make

h the point overathere too. So, about ah.. thre'e morea ..

'green' lights would be just fine.''Rep. Arthur A. Tplcser: uHave a1l voted who wished? Take the

record. On this question, there are 56 'Ayes', 62 'Nays'

and the gentleRan's motion to adopt Amendment No. 6, to Hous

..-A '

' Bill 4215, faizs. Are there further Amendments?''

Fredric B. Seleke: ''Amendment No. Stone, amend House Bill

4215 on Page 8 after Section 9 by inserting the following:'Section lQ, andsofortht.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from Moultrie, Representa-

tive Stone, on the floor? Welle in the meantime, ah.. Repre

sentative ah.. Miller, for what purpose do you rise, Eira''

'

P. Miller: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentiemen of the House,

I have a very important announcement and it's not my farewel

... . k. r, A .. Nhx !... . ..' /(.?,,6-7.77> > . G :.7î N E 11 A L A S S E M B L Yt

- $ . 't'r&,jt ' svwvs os juulxols2 fu ... ..1... z =:.:. . .* >u; . l : C1 ul S E o F R E P R E 5 E N T A. T l V E S't u a . . s )-'',....:11...-,

..... . .

84.

song. You've heard that before. But, I hope it won't be a

farewell tomorrow night out at Iles Park. The Ball Game is

on for the benefit of the Boy's Club at 7 o'clock. And,

want all of the Athletes to go to bed early tonight and for-

get the ah... forget the inequities or whatever might be

found and get to bed early and let's knock the hell out of

the Senate. Give me a perfect record when I leave this Hous .

Thank you-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Ah.. Roll Call..... Has Representa-

tive Stone returned to thè floor? Was Representative Stone

on the floor? Ah.. we're going to have to withdraw that

Amendment then. Are there further Amendments beyond Repre-

sentative Stone's. Renumber them, please.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Amendment bTo. 7, Londrigan, amend

House Bill 4215 on Page 4 by striking Eine l8; and on Page

4, Line 24 by striking '82,007,200' and inserting in lieu

thereof '77 465 000'..'' #

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Sangamon, Repre-

sentative Londrigan.''

J. T. Londrigan: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, this Amendment takes out of the appropriation the fu'n s

for the second University of Illinois Law School on the

Champaign Campus. It's strikes four and one half million

dollars which will be quite a savings for the taxpayers.

Now, I am for another State Law School but any place, any

place by on the Champaign Campus. We are going to have anot er

Law School, apparently, at Southern in Carbondale. Whether

... s' l y= ,. x s.., aq *. $) a .x''($ h l''rj% fv N G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y'ik.f : s- . k, 2;

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:

85

this or another Law School be in Southern Illinois, Central,

Northern, even Chicago Circle Campus, but any place by

Champaiqn, Illinois where we already have our one and only

Law School. There's only one Law Schoole State Law School.

Downstate or any place and that's Champaign . A11 of the

private Law schools are in the Chicago Area . So, doesn't

it make sense that. if we're going to hav'e another Law

School or a big expansion amounting to a Law school. that it

should be any place but on Champaign Campus. Now, last year,

I introduced a Resolution that no University should expand

larger than 20,000 student population. And, if theydve %

already expanded farther than that, they should not grow

further. The University of Illinois defeated this in the

Higher Education Cohmittee by one vote. They constantly

said there and in their publications that they did not de-

sire to becote larger. They ar@ already over 33,000 student

at Champaign. They constantly say'that they do not intend' j:jto. .. .

. Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Simmons. for what pur-

pose do you rise, Sir?''

A. E. Simmonst ''Ah.. I believe: this Amendment conflicts with

Amendment No. 2 as it deals with Line 4, Page 4... Line 24,

Page 4.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Let's take a look . Ah.. your point

is well taken, Representative Simmons. And ah.., the Clerk

informs us that we can just change the Bill to read, 'Amend-

' ment, to House Bill 4215 as amended -'-''

...q < *JI fg'e l-i.qr;.>/ G E N E R A L A s s E M B L Y/ ' k.y '-; j; ç. .1 ': , è.q.j svave oe I k-ujsjo Is

. t > X ' ' T *.<J . / Hotz SE f: F n E1*l' Es E NT AT l V ES*Q .. ) $ w*l = ' ...t.. -. . -- -

86.A. E. Simmons: ''And

, if you do that, #ou'l1 have to changethe figure in it too because the new figure, according tomy records, is fifty-eight thousand

. . . ah.. fifty-eightmillion, seventy-five thousand. He uses eighty-two million

e07e two hundred .

n

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The Clerk will do that, Representa-tive Simmons. Proceed, Representative Lôndrigan

-''

J. T. Londrigan: ''The University of Illinois has consistentlysaid that they do not want to become larger. But, at everyopportunity, at every Legislature

, they attempt to put inadditional facilities. Now, my twenty thousand Resolution

..

Student Resolution was supported just recently by .the Carneg'e commission on Higher Educati'on Which made the study through-

.I out the country. This commission established that no Uni-versity. the largest ones giving the doctoral commission

,should beeome larger than 20

.000 student populaticn . So.there we have the highest commission in the Country supporti gthat no Universiky should become larger than 20,000. Now,

wM '' obviously, this will save the people, save and cut spendingand taxes four and .a half million. Those of you

, who areconcerned about secondary education

, those of you, who knowtiat we spend far too many dolla

rs on higher edûcation andnot enough on secondary education

e hêre is an opportunityfor us to save this additional

money. Another point is, ina recent editorial. that there are too many Lawyers in theState of Illinois, that Law Xchool Students and Lawyers haveincreased fourteen percent just last year

, that now there ar... . x

'

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87.

three and a half students in Law Schoola... or three and a

half Lawyers for every one student in Law School. So# if

we are to have another University Law School at Southern,

I think. Champaign is one too manyt I believe, this entire

conception should fail because we have much higher prioritie

than this Law School. We have Welfare, Secondary Educatione

and almost everything else should come before this second

Law School at Champaign. Another point ise that the buildin

of this Law School will mean that ten percent OE the student

will come from out of State and we will be supporting out of

State students with our hard earned tax dollars. So, for

all of these reasons, I believe, that itls for the good of

the people of the State of Illinois and also for the good o

the University of Illinois itself, not to become larger.

And, we should cut this s/ending by four and one half milliodollars.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Palmer.''xe

R. J. Palmer: ''If the Sponsor will yield for a question?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''HC indicates that he wi1l..'

R. J. Palmer: ''Ah.. Representative Londrigan, does this ah..

it.. I don't understand the Amendment. Are you seeking to

delete any appropriation for the Law school at the Universit

of Illinoisr'

J. T. Londriqan: ''Right..''

R. Palmer: ''Well then, what. . what will they do if ah.. if

our motion is ah . . or your Amendment't . . the motion is suc-Y

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88.

cessful here?''

J. T. Londrigan: ''It'll... It'll cut the Law School Appro-

priation.''

R. J. Palmer: ''You're not completely eliminating the appropria

tion then, are youa''

J. T. Londrigan: ''No.''

R. J. Palmer: ''And, the effect of the appropriation then. . or

your Amendment then would ah.. actually hold the num. . . the

number Y students enrolling there ah.. down . Is that cor-

rect?''

J. T. Londrigan: ''It will prevent the further expansion from

60O to 40O more students which would a thousand.n

R. J. Palmer: %eI see. Alright-.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleIaan from Uhampaign, Repre-

sentative Hirschfeld.''

J. C. Hirschfeld: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentl =-

men of the House, I don't believe that anybody has taken

more of an interest in the University of Illincis Law School.A

than I have personally. And, I think, I led the fight last

year in opposition to any further funds for that Law school.

However, I'm going to rise and oppose RepFesentative Londrl-gan's ah.. Amendment at this time because, I think, there's

been substantial changes made the policy of the Law sghoo

at the University of Illinois. First of alle with regard

to Representative Londrigan's comments, r think, it's very.

very misleading, although I'm certain that he didn't intend

it to be that wayy to refer to this addition at the

z . 9 !: ' '..' t .. h'..' . ' ? g, -,'(RJ . 1 G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y- z:' s t , ,.). : svsvs o s , usl xols. jîrz k .'(.L? ,=:' ' ' - s o w s c o s a c e R s s u ,g a. A v 1 v e: s

. s%3uJ-ï:t::.. --

89.

Universify of Illinois Law School as a quote, 'second Law

School'. This is no second Law School. It's merely expand-

ing the current facilities at the Uhiversity of Illinois to

take care of some serious overcrowding problems they have.

Now, last year, on the floor of this House, we seriously

questioned the number of hours that were taught by varions

professors of the Law School. This matter has been resolved

to my satisfaction, after a lengthy conversation with Dean

Cribbet. We also cuestinned the Admisslon Policies becausewe had figures that were supplied to us that showed more tha

twenty percent of the students at the University of Illinois

Law School were out of State students. And, this did not

include the special program for black students at the Uhi-

versity of Illinois Law School. We also seriously questione .

the Policies of Admission at the University of Illinois,

whereby, 'they would weight only one-third of the admission

grade on four years of undergraduate work and two-thirds of

the grade on a Law School Admission Test. And: Ladies and

Gentlemen of this House, I've seen people walk into one of

these L.S.A.T. Exams dead drunk and ccme out with a perfect

score. And. someone else, who is an cutstanding student,

would go in, and because he would happen to panic at an exam

and some pecple do panic at these exams: score very poorly

and not be admitted to the Law School. So, I raised these

questions with Dean Cribbet a year ago and we did not get

them resolved. But, over the course of the past year, we

have got them resolved. And, therefore, I am supporting the

b zt t-y.,rx, % G E N E R A t. A s s E M B L y. t q , t .; . jt- . fk-', - v' ..

'.': :.

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90.

expansion of the Law School at the University of Illinois.

Now, along this same line, later when it beco'mes appropriat ,

when the Bill is brought up, I''m going to oppose the Law

School at S.I.U'w not because I'm opposed to a second Law

School, but it seems to me, Ladies and Gentlemen of this

House, that, before we start spending money for a second

Law School, we should give this money to ihe University of

Tllinois Law School which already has an established facult .

an established Law Library of thousand and hundreds of thou

sands of volumes and see whether or not that Law School can

absorb. the students that want admission. I agree with the

comments that were made. In some areas, there is an over-

abundance of Lawyers. Therefore, I see no reason to build

the second Law Schoo'l in this State at this time. But, I'do think, it's necessary to expand the Law Schcol facilities

at the Univeréity of Illinois. pprticularly, in the light . of the many letters that I'm receiving from around the Stat

of'lllinois from outstanding College Graduates of the Uni-xA '

versity of Illinois and elsewhere who have been unable to

be admitted to the University cf Illinois Law School becausthere is no room in the inn . Therefore. I hope, that wewill defeat this Amendment and pass the Appropriation Billith the Law School Apprèpriation in'it ''W

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from Cook, Represenfa-

tive Mann.''

R. E. Mann: HI wonder ah...if ah . . Representative Londrigan

would yield for a questiona''

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' 91.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will-''

E. Mann: ''Ah.. Jim, I reçieved ah.. a letter ah.. either

from the Dean or the Dean of Students at the Law School ah..

. asking me to support increased appropriations ah.. for the

Law School. Ah.. I'm not a gradutate of the Law School, but

I am a graduate of the University. Ah.. wondered ah.. is

this an Agreed Amëndment with him? Ah.. did they agree to

this cutbacka''

J. T. Londrigan: ''No.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Champaign, Repre-

sentative Clabaugh-u

C...W. Clabaugh: ''Mr. Speaker, practically all that I intended

to say has been said by my Colleakue or some of the others.And, if there's no one else, 'I'm going to make a motion to

table this Amendment. Bui, I see Representative Stone is. '

up to speak.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Moultrie, Repre-

sentative Stone-u

P. Stone: ''Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen, I think

i that ah.. an addition to the Law School is needed. that we '

need room for more ah.. students so. that they can become

Lawyers. think, that if there is to be a new Law School,

it should be at the University of Illinois where there are

plenty of facilitiés already. The present Professors can

ah.. teach additional students and we can get along much

cheaper for the State. think, it's pathetic that.. that

yj '.t ere is such large percentage of the young people of the

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92.

State that want to become Lawyers and they have no place to

CO. I ah.. Certainly support Representative Clabaugh in hi

motion to table this Amendmento''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? The

gentleman from Lawrence, Representative Cunningham-''

R. D. Cunningham: ''Will the Spopsor of the Amendment yield to

a question?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He ihdicates he wil1.''

R. D. Cunningham: ''James, where did you go to Law Schoola''

J. T. Londrigan: ''l went to Pre-Law at Illinois and Law School

at the Chicago campus.''

R. D. Cunningham: ''Well, I had thought frcm the expla...

want to speak to the Amendment just a minute. I had thoug

from the excellence of the.. of Representative Londrigan's

efforts that he was an Illinois Law Schcol Graduate. ï thin ,

that this is an instance wiere all Illini Lawyers should

stand together and beat down all of these efforts to keep 'Illinois from continuing to advance into front ranks of .M

National Law Schools. We have witnessed in recent years

amazing progress in that direction. No longer, when you sa

Law School, do people think of Harvard, Columbia and Yale

and stop there. Now, they think of Illinois and we have an

opportunity to march forward. Somehow, somewhere, we must

overcome this strange love-hate relationship that we see..ê

advance too often among Illinois Law Graduates. All Illini

should stand up with pride and vote Yor Clabaugh's motion to

table this Amendment. We must recogni'ze, in all modesty,

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93. . o . a 4that Illinois turns out excellent Lawyers as exempizrleu DY

the people who serve in this House. It makes no sense at

all'to try to restrict the size of a fine, great Vniversity

to 20,000 peoplee if it makes just as much sense to try torestrict people to five feet and seven inches which I would

favor. But, I think, now is the time to build and even

bigger and better.university of Illinois. And, 1$11 be

proud to vote with Clabaugh.on his motion to table. ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tiue Hyde.''

H. Hyde: ''Wel1, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of th

House, ah.. I thihk, the University of Illinois Law School

as achieved the pinacle in ah.. ah.. ranking ah.. among the

major Law schools in the Country ah.. but, I think, thereis a difference between quantity and quality. And, I think,

sometimes the quality ahk. is endangered at the ah.. ah..

expense of adding ah.. more and more students. Now, I'm

not for ah.. ah.. diminishing the importance of th'e signifi

cance of a major Law School in a major ah.. State Universit ,But for God's 'sake. we need Doctors. We need Doctors#

desperately. We have Lawyers ah.. coming out of our ears.

And. all they do is they graduate and they go to work for

H.E.W. or the Office of Economic Opportunity and become

public interest Lawyers and suing other branches of Govern-

ment at the taxpayer's expense. Ah.. ah.. as far as I'm co -

cerned, would double or triple the'ah.. appropriations to

the Medical Schools, to any and a1l Medical Schools in this

'

a; . k 7>, G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y: t ;'. ) e-'.'..j :Fc . . . 4 . sv A. T' E; o v' I u t. j N o l s. .Q? W.. . ,. . + yI o kl s c: o F R E: e R s s E N T' a T' I v E s*tw .. e<.z..-.1.-.-R

94State because there's a desperate shortage of Doctors.

Lawyers? Who needs them?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Madoupin, Repre-sentative Boyle.''

K. Boyle: '$I wonder if ah. . Representative Londrigan admits

or will adnit that there is a shortage of Law classroomspace in ah.. the State today?''

J. T. Londrigan: ''Certainly, there's a shortage of Law class-rooms, but there's things being done about it

. There's ah..

a new Law School proposed at Southern. The point is, I saithat I'm in favor of another Law School

, but any place but

on the Champaign Campus. Nowe that isn't too hard to under-

stand, I don't believe .''

K. Boyle: ''Well. Myself and Representative Corbett'try to

get students in. T understand ah. . that students, with 4'.5

averages. were turned down. And ah. . , I don't know how man.

Lal./ers ah.. we have here in the House, but... and I don't

know what their grade averageq were when they were in Colle .aebut I might suggest that some of them

, who are here wouldn'' be Lawyers today'if they had to meet the criteria and the

standards that these students have to meet in trying to getinio these Law Schools

. And, think, it's pretty bad when

have ah.. a situatione where students that have 4.5 gradeaverages, are turned down because there's not enought class-room space. And, I submit that maybe some of the Law

yershere may be a little jealous that these students ah

. . willa little bit smarter than they are whenuthey get out. And,

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95.I.. I donft. for one, intend to support an Amendment to re-duce Law schools Eor the simple rcason that there's too

many Lawyers in the state of Illinois and it might hurt hyLaw Practice and I might lose a little bit of money. I thi ,that we need more Law space

. And. I canlt think of a finer

place to have than the University of Illinois.''Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook Representa-#

tive Kipley .''

E. L. Mipley: ''A point of parliamentary procedure. Ah.. is amotion to ah.. table debatablea''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Well, sir, the... Representative Cla-baugh indicated that he wished to make that motion. Did he. ..

Did you actually put that motion, Repre....''

C. W. Clabaugh: ''No.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''No: he did not: 'Representative kiple .

The motion has not been puto''

E. L. Kipley: ''I beg your pardon e''

'Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook. Representa-tive Maragls.''

S. C. Maragos: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, in arisi g

against the Amendment of my esteemed ColleaMue, Mr. Londriga ,

I speak from personal experience because my oldest son wasapplying at the University of Illinois for membership. And,because of the space, he was refused and he had even a closeaverage, I should say, closer to 6. in his ah .. aptitudetests as compared to what Representative Boyle was sayingof .someone who had 4.8. It is a crying shame in this Countr

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Ahat the opportunities for our College Students and our

Hiqh school students are becoming limited because of the

lack of space. I may also say also the fact that Illinois

is a high grade Law School, and I'm not an alumnus and I ca

speak without preludice. And, if we start another LawSchool now in another part of the State, it will take, at

least, ten years before the reputation can be built up and

+bq quality of .thnt Law School can be enhaneed. Therefore,

Tythink, that we should not put any strings on any particul r

Upiversity, especi#lly the University of Illinois Law Schoo .

And, t.herefore, 1. aàk that the Amendment of Mr . Londrigan's

not pass-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Kane, Representa-

tive Schoeberlein.'''

A. L. Schoeberlein: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker. as a non-bawyer, I mov

the previous question.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telscer: ''The previous question has been moved.

AJ.l those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no',A '

tha 'ayes' have it and the gentleman from Sangamon, Repre-

sentative Londrigane to close the debate.u

J. T. Londrigan: ''Mr. Speak... Mr. Speaier and Fellow Members,the point. as I said in the beginning, is we a#e going to

have, at least, one. if not two, nek Lyw Schools. The point

is, where are those Law schools to go? We havn one State

Law School. Why B1nould we put another one on top of it?

And I say, an expansion of'four hundred students is another

Law School. I saû'. put it any place but on Champaign Campus

.7 . . s : ' . .--= .=- . x,.,. ., i.p. r4. . .(t'%' Lt. *) : -,> '%. ' c E N E R A t- A s s E M B t, v/r e , ,k. )(1. ç àr .; - smxvs os Iuulaols= 1 . ., ' '%- .t. I ' House oF aceacsEa-rA'rl <es.xxJ' +%*#V '.Q ''-.-

:

97.

which is already too crowdedz. And, being the second State

Law School, it should not be on the Champaign Campus. Now,

we've talked consistently about priority. This is way down

on the list of priorities for Higher Education. Now: when

we make the Higher Education priorities with Welfare: with

people, with secondary education, I think, this Higher

Education priority for this Law School should be way, way

down on the list. Here is our opportunity to cut spending

which we're always talking about. We can cut spending here

four and a half million. Let's do it.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is. 'shall Amendment

No. 7, to House Bill 421% be adopted?'. All those in favor

signify by voting 'aye', the.... Is that Number 87 Seven,

Representative Simmons. Ah.. Representative Stone was not

on the floor for his Amendment so, we renumbered this one.

The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 7, to House Bill 421.5,

be adopted?'. All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', #

the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished?' '

jj. The gentleVan from Cook. Representative Fary.

E Fary: ''Ah.. in explaining my vote, Mr. Speaker, Idve

been carrying these around in my pocket for D me time . Her 's

à young lad. His'name is Dennis J . Krisic. H@ lives 9122

South Abers Avenue in Evergreen Park . Hels now in the four

year at ah..., he's graduating in June at the University of'

Illinois. He has a B and B+ average and he wants to go to

Dental School and they have no room for him. They're putti g

him on an alternative list. Here's another one, Mark Pucin ci.

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' 98.

B+, 475 out of 500 at the University of Illinois Champaign

Medical School. They have no room for him. . Doesn't qualif .''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Have a1.1 voted who wished? Take the

record. Caldwpll.. 'no'. On this question, there are

39 'Ayes', 67 'Nays' and the gentleman's motion, having

failed to receive the majority vote, is hereby declared los .

Are there... Representative Borchers, for what purpose do

you rise, sir?''

W. Borchers: ''I rise on a point of personal privilege.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcserz ''State your point, Sir.''

W. Borchers: ''Last ah.. week. my name was publicly mentioned

on the floor by Re/resentative ah.. Arrigo' in relation to

ah.. matter of French. Now ah:., Representative Arrigo

ah.. pointed out that ah. . 'Chevoe' was the prope: word in-

stead of 'Chevel'. have two experts in French, Represent -

tive Hudson and Representative Cunningham and Members of thAcademy of Science of Francee who :r+ backing me up in the

ah.. word khat I did use. I was speaking of 'warm horse','chevel'. M 'Cievod is the plural. I was not s/eaking ofplural horses. So, I just wanted to bring this to the atte -

tion of Representative Arrigo . And, And,... Just one

ôther... one other... one other pointy I'm very happy noone, since we had a loy#l illini meeting, asked me to helplead the band in the. . . on the podium.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there further Amendments? Repre-

sentative Arrigo, for what purpose do you' rise, Sir?'.

V. A. Arrigo: ''AK. . Aœ . Speakor, I want to remind the Members

. N .Z %'k* ' r '

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*. * . ' 3

'

99.

of the House that that occurred during the time that khere

was a .debate on certification of bilingual teachers. And.

in/eed, I believe, it was your Bill, Mr. Speaker, at thetime. And. I was under the impression that our distinguish d

Colleague was speaking about a pack of horses. And, at tiatime, I thought, that certainly horses were not 'Chevel'

. '

but 'Chevoe'. But certainly, since this is a horse of a

different color, 1,11... I'm awfully sorry if I embarrassed

the distinguished gentleman. 'Chevel' has always been one

horse, 'Chevoe' more than one. I thought, he was speaking

about a pack of horses. And, I'm sorry if I embarrassed

him.''

Rep. Arthu' r A. Telcser: ''Okay. .''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No.'8, Hanahan, amend House Bil

4215 on Page 8 by insertihg lmmediately below Line 24 th@

following: ''Section 9. 'Ahy expenditures under this Act mus

be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as

established by public policy'o''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from McHenry : Represen -

tive Hanahan. Representative Simmons, for what purpose do

you rise. Sir?''

A. E. Simmons: ''Did I understand the Clerk to say that this

creates Section 9. Ah.. didn't Amendment No.... .u

T. J. Hanahan: ''Well, he's got the wrong Amendment. Ah.. Ah..

it should be ah..'on Page 8, by inserting immediately below

Line 24 the following:b.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''We11, while tY1 Clerk straightens it

$,.# l-cpzx G E N E It A L A s s E M B t. v. gy.v ja x jû i : . t' ) s'ra'rc o'e. 1 uulsolstt p s.. .. . sous: .s sseacsssvwvlvss* : ..' t. . .1 . . tTs*.t ... . '

100.

oute Representative Randolph, for what purpose do you rise,

Sir? ''

P. J. Randolph: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. Ied to

. have permission to have Senate Bill 1353 heard in the Reven e

Committee tomorrow. This has been cleared by the Leadersii

of b0th sides of the aisle.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcs/r: ''Are there any objections? Hearing

none, that Bill will be posted and the appropriate rule will

be suspended. Now. Representative Hanahan.''

T. Hanahan: ''Yes, Mra Speaker, Amendment No. ah.. l0? ll?

or whatever it is. 'any expenditures under this Act must be

spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as

established by public policy'. This Amendment is similar

to the Amendment that we adopted on the ah.. House Bill 4211.

This Amendment is.. has bèen adopted already. Oh! Amendme

àNo. 8. Yes. Ah.. this mendment would insure, once again,

that we... that the appropriated State funds, that are appr -

priated in this Bill, will bë spent in compliance with khe

prevailing wage laws of the State of Illinois. And, urge

its adoption-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nIs there any discussion? The gentle-

man from Cook, Representative Simmons.''

A. E. Simmons: ''Did we ah.. adopt Amendment No. 5 to this Bill?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: .'Yes.. Yes, we did, Representative

Simmons.''

A. E. Simmons: ''Well, that created Section 9, readinge 'thisj '.Act shall take effect, July 1, 1972 . Nowe this new Amend-

.., ,i.r . 'q. wx,

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l 0 1- .

ment, that we're talking about now, creates another Section

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Well, if we could be at ease for a .

moment, wedll get the Amendments. Representative Clabaughe

for what purpose do ycu G se, Sir?''

C. W. Clabaugh: ''As a matter of clarification, Mr. Speaker,

I think, tabledg.. or ah.. Amendments No. 4 and 5 were

tabled.. and 4? I'm sorry. It was 3 and 4 that were

tabled.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser) ''Okay, Representative Simmons, the

clerk will correct this Amendment and make it Section lO.

So, it's not in conflict with Amendment No. 5. Now, is the e

any discussion on Amendment No. 8? The gentleman from

champaign, Representative Clabaugh.''

c. w. clabaugh: ''Mr. speaker, Representative Hanahan verk kin lygave me a copy of this'Alendment before it was introduced.

t it to the people at the University of Illinois. ind,I sen

hile they don't particularly care for they said thatW..A

they can live with it and they have no objection to the

Amendment.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentlqman has offered to move the

adoption of Amendment No. to House Bill 4215. So, all in

favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed

'no. the Amendment is adopted. A4e there furth.oo.''#

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 9, Hanahan, amend House Bill

4215, on Page 1, in Line ll, by deleting .$135,191,981, and

inserting in lieu thereof ,$141,011';981'2 and on Page

'j g 'r)s s E M j; j. vQV.4'%> G E N E R A L A S- Gks' r ,'lzo : svwve oe 'uu.-o's- '. l itg r:.. . r . s o u s c o e, s/ c e a 1: s s s x a. v. I u ;: s* , ' ost.zz

. ' yg;

by deleting a11 of Line 8 and inserting in lieu thereof the '

following: 'lTotal, section le $166,088.181)'.'.

Repe'Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from McHenry. Represen -

tive Hanahan.''

T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this.

Amendment is in answer to the questioning in the Apprcpria-

tions Committee .of the University of Illinois Budget Experts.

When I questioned them on whether or not Yhe budget as pre-

sented to the General Assembly truly reflected the amounts

of money needed in the area of maintenance and operation.

And, lo and behold, it seems that the working guy gets it i

the neck as usudl, that they got shortchanged in the budget

request to the tune of about five million, eight hundred an

twenty thousand dollars-.or.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: l'Representative Simmons, for Whavt pur

pose do you riser'

A. Simmonsr ''Well, Mr. Speaker, Amendment No. l ah.. chang d

the figure ah.. of a hundryd and thirty-five million, a hun red

and ninety-one thousand, nine hundred and eighty one to a

new figure of a hundred and thirty-five million, two hundre

and twenty-seven thousand, six hundred and forty-three. No ,

this Amendment, that we're talking about now, takes out the

figure that we took out before. So, it is in conflict with

Amendment No. 1.''

Rep. Arthur A.' Telcser: ''I think, what you're pointing out is

what we've had all afternoon. Ah... I.. I would just sugges

that the Clerk read and insert the .proper figure to reflect

toqrvskt c E x s R A L, A s s E M u j- vk.t; . y a... r.ê ft= .k6 '. '-) & sma.r r o e. I k.u 1 st ol s

. .t.. ,/ rt'''' -, . *1 ou s s o rr Iv ce Iq c sea'r Av I w ss/1 . 1!zR 't .ty:..7-

103.

the change in the Amendment which was adopted prior-''

T. J. Hanahan: ''What weIrç talking about is five million. eig t

hundred and twenty thousand dollars, is the figure that I'm

seeking to add to the Bi1l.''

A. E. Simmons: ''Well, in this Amendment, ah.. 9, it should'

read, 'by deleting a hundred and thirty-five million, two

hundred and twenty-seven thousand, six hundred and forty-

three' n

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The Clerk informs that he's making

that change right now, Representative Simmons. Do you wish

to proceed, Representative Hanahan?''

T. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker, in quee ioning the University at

the Budget Hearing in the Appropriations Committee I asked#

the University to submit a letter which I had duplicated

mb f this General Assembly. An ,and presented to every Me er o

these are the calculaticns that the University of Illinois

come up with to just maintain and operate our billions and

millions of dollars of investment in the University structu es.

Welre talking about the non-academic employees pay raises.

We're talking about the non-academic employees, whether the

be elevators constructors or painters or electricians or

brick-layers or carpenters. Welre talking about the guards.

We're talking about the people who work in the kitchens.

We're talking about thi's type of people who need pay raises.

And, acçording to the University's figurese this Amendment

ld compensate the non-academic e'mployeeq the prevailingwou

wage emplcyee, the prevailing rate èmployee and necotiate

. . i ' x. ',,'x.' ,% : %(( f Y/ 4. -h 'tcqwkc G E N E R A j. A s s E M B L Yr k.r .k , p j. y ?-A k . . j s v .. x. s o e' I u u I 'q o I s

* 'thl' =: ' - sousc o g. s sea c s.s .1 v ...r I v cs.f, ' ' '., r..sr:v

. ycu.

a rate employee properly. The letter reads as follows:

'We can not predict accurately what the prevailing wage rat.

changes for the entire year, 172, will be. However,

we believe, a reasonable estimate would be $861,000. Our.

Budget includes only $376,000. So, there's a defieiency

of $485,000. Numher two, if the negotiated employees in al

units of the University receive the five and a half percent

of their compensation, based on July 1st, the cost of the

State Appropriations would be $615,000. Our Budget request

provides for four and a half percent, effective December ls ,

which amount to $230,000, leaving a deficiency of .$385,000.

If pay raises wer'e given to all non-academic employees in

the Division of maintenance and operation at five and a ha

percente effective July 1st, the amount required from the

state Appropriations would be $917,000. Our Budget include

four and a half percent from December 1st, leaving a de=I

ficiency of à figure over... a deficiency of $480.000.

' I'm sure that you will understand that the figure overlapsw-e '

items l and 2 above, since the largest group of people in

the first two items is maintenance and operations staff.

To accomplish what is desirable on items l and 2 and 3 com-

bined would be $870,000. It should be noted that to establ'sh

equity for all employees of the University similar.. simila

salary and wage ehanges would be necessary. Our calculatio

of the total needs to provide salary increases of five and

half pereent, effective July 1st, 19:2 for all employees

other than those eovered in items 1, 2 and 3e,is $3,820,000.

k. .$7(w cj G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YZ k. c ) c... x. . jk.o . . , s v A. v c o e I u u I N o I s' . j p. .' Q . . -. . s o u s s o yr s s e a c s c a v a y 1 v s sl w*r z'''tz6'7..

105.

If the full amount in item 3 were available, we would be...

we would still have to eliminate a large number of operatio

d aintenance. positions uniess further funds were availa-an m

ble'. Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this is

exactly the problem. We have a commitment of billions of

dollars in the University of Illinois, both at Champaign-

b d the Chicago Congress Circle'and Medical CenterUr ana an1I Complex. Either we, as Members of the General Assembly,

want to see these facilities, these physical plant faciliti s

maintained and operated at proper... by properly funding

the'Appropriation Bill. I'm sick and tired of hearing that,

because welre short of funds, we 1ay off so many janitors.

We lay off so many painters and so 'many electricians. The

chicago Building Trades Council of the AFL-CIO of which an

Executive Board Member is in the audience, Benney Snygowski,

I see up in the audience and .his crew from the Painter's '

Union are here to witness that ihe Painters at the Universi y

of the Congress Circle and the University of Illinois at

the Medical Center have constantly been laid off because w ,

in the General Assembly, have failed to properly fund the

maintenance and operation figure of the University of Illin is

Appropriation Bill. urge and p'lead with you Members to ta e

care of those people who are desperately needed. Walk arou

the University. See how bad ah.. in need of repairs some o

the facilities are. See how much painte. how the electrical '

conditions and how the plumbing conditions, how the carpentr ,

the tile and carpeting is wearing out. And yet, the Uni-

. .. 4. '' . '

z.' w. q; Jl '..* z'' :..i%> ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yt '. h .. . zr .. j sv a, v s o s j t. u 1 sj o j s; r.t . )

. '.). T' n7: . ... d H OUSIS C) F 1T EPn E9E N T AT 1 V CS# œ -... .->! '' . - --- -- --.

106.

i is came in with a'false budget. This Amen -versity of Ill no

ment would correct this budget. It would put back into ope a-

tion in the university a feeïing of security for the workin

people who operate and maintain the University of Illinois.

I urge the adoption of this Amendment.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tiv'e Regner.n

D. J. Regner: I'AK.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, I suppose if I were a University Official, I

wouldn't oppose this Amendment either because what it does

is tive them almost six million dollars additional monies

for the University of Illinois. It would provide additiona

funds for all employees, administrators, faculty, civil

service and prevailing wage personnel. If the Amendment fo

this University of Illinois Bill is intended to provide for

salary increases for only prevailing wage, to negotiate a

wage and cther maintenance and o'peration employees, the amo t

Y eded isx only a few hundred thousand dollars. The amount o

money-... That amount of money is provided in House Bill

4215 as it exists right now. If the Amendment for the Uni-

versity of Illinois Bill is intended to provide the above

salary increases plu/ additional Tunds to retain personnel,

the amount requested is still several million dollars more

than is needed. The amount of money needed to retain ah..

all necessary operation and maintenance personnel is provide

in 4215. The amount'of money included in these- . in this

Amendment would ehcourage waste and inefficiency by the

. .' ; A . ..- '..h%% . y:g rs z uqs'? 3 -n.>,' G E N E R A L A s s E M B t, Ys ,..q .d, .: Ik-kjù svxvs os Iuu,xossi o -* 1. / V ' pj o u s c o Ir a e r: a E s e: N 'r A + 1 v r s. . -yy . ;;-Ar .r; ,, , . % qç

107.

Universities rather than effective, efficient, fair and

equitable management practices. And. I would urge the defeaL

od this Amendment.'' '

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? The

gentleman from Champaign. Representative Hirschfeld.''

J. C. Hirschfeld: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen

of the House, I .rise to support this Amendment. And, I'd

like to tell this House why. I realize that this is not in

the Governor's Budget. But, last time we had a University

ob Illinois Budget, we passed what, we thought, was a fair

increase for academic and non-academic personnel, b0th at

i it o'f Illinois. And when Representative Stonethe Un vers y , ,

Representative Clabaugh, Senator Weaver and Myself met with

the University of Illinois, we were told that therd would an

across-the-board increase for b0th academic and non-acàdemic

personnel of approximately four percent. as I remember it.

Now, Ladies and Gentlemen of this House, what happened was,

there had been commitments .made, particularly to'academicve

personnel, and in order to accomplish the across-the-board

increase for the non-academic personnel, a great number of

non-academic people had to be laid off. And, I have receivei '

j ' .literally hundreds of letters from non-academic employees

at the University of Illinois by many of whom have been

employed as many as twenty-two yeaçs, who no longer have a

job, who are unable to bump anyone else because of senority

and who will not obtain a job unle/s this particular Amend-

ment of Representative Hanahan passts. And while we are#

r'' qx 6: f N xq' z 6-,- --.,-,7, ' G s x E R A L A s s E M B L vijLï' .... . '''$f 1 ) ..< j,.; o s. .. .. j s w ,. v s o e. I u u. j ,q o I s-.4 / y5 . . . j, o w s e o g. a s e p s s e: sj w a w $ v e: s

.f. %!:'''.tr t' .- -r.

108.

kicking in an extra several millions dollars into the Budge

of the University of Illinois, which I realize is' in my

District. I'm not voting for this as a Districi Bil1# but

I'm voting for it so that the non-academic personnel can ge

a fair shake rather than just laying this money out for

salary increases for professors. assistant professo<s and

associate professors which is what has happened in the past.

And, I urge an affirmative vote on Representative Hanahan's

Amendment.''

Rep/ Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Rôck Island, Repr -

sentative Henss.''

D. A. Henss: ''Mr.'speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, I'm opposed to this Amendment and other Amendments

to the ah.. other ah.. Appropriation Bills which wiii be

offered by Representative Hanahan. Actually, the money is

in these ah.. Appropriation Bills for salary increases tg

the University Personnel at the excepted rate. The issué

here is how many employees.shall there be. Recehtly. the

Board of Higher Education has written a letter, dated May

25th, ah.. regarding the very question. I'd like to quote

portions cf it. 'Salary increases for College and Universit

Employees were considered by the Board of Higher Education

to be among the highest priorities for the Illinois Higher

Education in fiscal 173. Accordingly, the Board recommended

approximately twelve million dollars for academic and non-

academic salary increases. Average increases of four percen-

for academic employee: and five and.one half percent for a1l

.' k ='.. '. ..A y A y ;.v. - .,: - );xso ?.?,2--/R> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y( kax -$ : ' $ z.x. j s v x x q: o s j u u 1 a o j sfo'

.ta.. /','-..7. . .1. sj ow ss o e a s ea ss' c lq v xv I v cs

t-ê;iq ** ' ':., !..-

109.

non-academic employees were assumed in calculating salary

increase requirementl. So. it is clear that the salary

increases, at the excepted rate, are already provided for.

The letter co'ntinues. 'In the judgement of the Board ofHigher Education. adequate resources have been recommended

to finance these increases. The fiscal 1973 Appropriation

Bill of the four University Systemsl, how get this. 'include

approximately 17.8 million dollars more for operations and

grants excluding retirement than was appropriated in fiscal

1972'. We're already faced with an increase of 17.8 million

dollars, Ladies and Gentlemen. Representative Hanahan would *

add to that increase by approximately another nine million

dollars, if I understand his Amendmea t correctly to these

four ah.. ah.. A/propriation Bills. What he wants is to

have more money for janitors. more grass cutting, mcre kitch n

help, as I understood his presentation. But, that money

will have to come from some othe'r place in the Billa. If

we add rore for janitors, it will have to come frcm, say,

an academic ah.. part of the Bill. More janitors, fewer

textbooks. Less of the academic so that we can force the

Universities to have more for the non-academic. The purpose

of a University, Ladies and Gentlemen, is, not to provide a

home for jobs, the purpose is to Yench. The University

Administrators know what their total amount df their Appro-

priation Bill will be for fiscal 1973. They have made an

allocation within that total amount. If we are to raise thi

amount. there will be a corresponding decrease somewhere

...k .. . 'x.x.xz:k'' s: f! .kz .g ''jP. . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y2 F';t r' o:

svxvs o'- .uu.-o.sîl -;? -... (,.u 'TV ' * yj o u s s o s a s s 44 s s u sj .y A, v j v E sl $: . J. s%

110.

else in their Appropriation Bills. We should not force suc

a reallocation because it will be to the detriment of the

academic phase of Higher Education. Please vote 'no' on

this Amendment-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? If not,

the gentleman from McHenry, Representative Hanahany to close

the debate.''

T. Hanahan: ''Well, Mr. Speaker and Members of the House,

I left off one paragraph because I knew some Representatives

may bring up the reasons why they want ah.. vote 'no' on

this Amendment. I'd like to point out that the Board of

Higher Education did not annualize the fiscal year '72

pay raises. That was supplemental and it cost $5,100 00O#

out of the existing budgets in' order to meet what Ehey

failed to do. They did 'not include the inflationary ihcreas

in the budget figures- Ande I submit to you, Ladies and.

Gentlemen, that the University of Illinoise non-academic '

employees, whether they be the janitor or the gu'ard, whetherv>-

they Be the painter cr the carpenter or teamster, it's about

time they have some equity from this General Assembly when

it comes to maintenance and operqticn's budget. Now, this

is the first time that we're bringing it to a head in the

General Assembly. And, suggest to you, Members of the

General Assembly, that, if you want the University of I1li-

nois to continue in a downward path as far as maintenance

and operations, vote 'no'. But, iè you want your University

of Illinois to be maintained to a d'egree that everyone

..g. sk. # 'kx,rkk ee' gbj -'J 77.7$ G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yê . 9 'th. t1- . .. 5T A. T'l o F I L u 1 hl o 1 S

' t z r: .6.I * . :. , H ou s u: o e' y. Een E sc N 'r-'r I v csj ,.,) a s,. !;v..,.

lll!

recommends it to be maintained at, at.. at a levql consiste

tg what you'd want with 'your own house, that yoy'd want it

clean. you'd want it protected and you'd want it operated

properly, I suggest that you vote 'aye' for this Amendment.

And, I urge you to vote ' aye ' . ''

, (j t.Rep. Arthur A . Telcser : ''The question is , shall Amen men

No. 9, to House Bill 4215 passa'. Al1 those in favor signif

by voting 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no'. The gentleman#

from McLean, Representative Hall.''

H. H. Hal1: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, I just don't understand the

action of this House when this money. ah.. approaching six

million dollars, was not asked for by the Higher Board, was

not asked for by the University, was not considered in the

Appropriations Committee, and now, we come here on the orde

of Seccnd Readingy.and I have a feeling that we don't under-

stand what we're voting for at a11 because this is not six

million dollars to pay prevailing wages to maintenance

employees. This is a wage for everybody at the University

irrespective of their positions and irrespective of what

other raises have already been provided for them. Previousl

. today, asked for a hundred and 'five million dollars that

had been taken out of one of the University budgets and the

House denied ah.. putting that back in. And, here we are

adding nearly six million dollars Eo a budget that was never

even asked for by the University. I recommend that we vote

this down, this Amendment, that is not substantiating the

talk that was given in favor of it because it is not only

,,t ,w t) ' exVo, GENERAL ASSEM BLYt4

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.''.(: zz r. .. . sowsc og aseacsselvaylv c:s, ' '

x! at; %* ' . . . .. . - --

112.

for maintenance employees. which... as the gentleman said

amounted to $800,000. but we're increasing this si'x million

ddllars. And, I ask you, 'where is six million'dollars com'ng

from to support this Amendmenta'.''

Rep. Arkhur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook Representa-#

tive Lechowicz.''

T. S. Lechowicz: ''.Thank you. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentle-

men of the House, in explaining my 'aye' vote. this Bill was

discussed in committee. These questions were raised in the

Ap'propriations Committee. And, in turn, the Presidents of t e

' various Universities responded to us in letter explaining! the fact that they were not permitted to include the true

operating and maintenance costs in their budget request to

the Bureau of the Budget. We asked them, in good faith.

what in their estimation they needed for proper mai' ntenane# '

and operating cosis in their respective Universities. Thes

are the figures that they have submitted. These are the

figures that we are voting for. And, I hope, that this Amen -.M

ment is adopted.''

Rep. Arkhur Telcser: ''Have all voted who wished? Take the

record. Representative ah.... Take the record. On this

question, there are lO7 'Ayes' and 42 'Nays' and the gentle-

man's motion to adopt Amendment No. 9, to House Bill 4215,

' prevails. Are there.-.. Representative Miller for what#

purpose do you rise, Sira''

I I '

sP. J. Miller: Well, I want to interrupt. Mr. peaker, the

proceedings ah.. to make a very vital announcement of some

,z' * ' jj sl ,/ o :. i.''T.'> # G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y- k'k .t'1. ' ' $ .. ',g.â j. . .. t! s'r A. 'r ç: o e' 1 L L l hl o 1 s. j. ? E . . s cj s a s e s s s u oj 4. x .r j u s s. . . H O U Gf -. . yrv.....z.!:--

113.

great fellas up in the Gallery, up to my right there, Ben

syngowski, the President of all the Painters in the State,

the District Painter's Council and Frank Bryant. the Vice-

Chairman of the International. Would you stand up. Syngowsk'

and Bryant? Two great guys. Let's give.. give them a hànd-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there further Amendments? Third

Reading. Now, if we can go back to House Bill 4211. Is

Representative Henss on the floor? Yeah.. House Bill 4211.

If you'll recall, Representative Hanahan had offered an

Amendment which was....''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 6, Hanahan, amend Hcuse Bill

4211, as amended, on Page 1, Section 1, and on Line 15 by

striking '$19,905,142, and inserting in lieu thereof .$20,....''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from McHenryy Repre-

sentative Hanahan-''

T. J. Hanahan: ''Yes, Mr. S/eaker, Amendment No. 2 simply does

this, adds....''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nAmendment No. Amendment No. 6....e-e

T. J. Hanahan: ''Oh! Amendment No. 6, excuse me, to House Bill

4211 adds $812,912, to the personal services account of the

Illinois Stâte University and it .adds $951,900 to the Northe ni '

Illinois University to do the identical thing that we just

evaded on the University of Illinois. And, this is to take

care of the maintenance. and operation employees, the non-

academic employees at these two Universities that were not' 1figured in the budget as submitted'to the Appropriations '

Committee. And,... And, instead of going through a lot of ;' j

. . .. -> . e .: 'q$.y('A : ' x ' '. ' . '.N. . . :à .enzl-'î':ts : G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y ' . x .R 'u ' ! .' ' ' ) 2r..3 j s v. x .r s o s j u u j sl o , s 'k -..flt...a r:...r. soùss os aceasscsvwv'wssA x .e'

t; t..q ! 4 l

'

e .#' .

114.

dialogue like we... I think, the same Roll Call, that we ha

on th'e previous Bill, 1'11 accept that on this Amendment

(; 11 'No. .

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentlepan from Rock Island, Repre

sentative Henss-''

D. A. Henss: ''Mr. Speaker, this is the Amendment that was not

in proper form iwhile ago. I would like to have the Clerk

read the.. the ah.. figure's to just make sure. I believe,

that he probably has put it in a proper form. But ah.., I'd

like to hear it.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Will the Clerk please read the Amend-' menta''

Fredric B. selcke: nAmendment No. 6, amend House Bill 4211,

as amended, on Page section on Line l5, by striking

'$19 905 142. and inseriing in lieu thereof .$20 7l8 054.)' # . ' # .

and on Page 1, Section 1, Line 27 by striking 1$25,125,0411

and inserking in lieu thereof 1$25,937,953'2 and on Page 1,

Section 1, Line 29, by striking .$25,734,815, and inserting

in lieu thereof 1$26,686,715'2 and on Page 2, Section 1,

Line 5, by striking 1$32,864,915' and inserting in lieu

thereof .$33,816,815. and on Page 2, Line 3l, by striking

. '$65,674,598' and inserting in lieu thereof '$67,439,410,.'.

D. A. Henss: ''Well: Mr. Speaker, I believe, that the Amendment

probably is in a proper' form now. ah.. do not agree to th

figures.....''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Simmons, for what pur-

pose do you risean

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$:7 ) : : 'T a !, .: f ..k. . ,3. . svxvc oe , uul,q o's. . . (.p n.r . . . g. a ses s sc sjv av j u ss. . / Boklsl o,. +%*V

115.

A. E. Simmons: ''Ah.. I'd like to ask if we adopted Amendment

No. 4. If we did. this one is in conflict with it.''

Rep.'Arthur A. Telcser: ''We1l, let's see if we diè, Represent -

tive Simmons. Amendment No. 4 lost, Representative Simmons.

So, we're in good shape for now. Representative Henss, do

you wish to proceed, Sir?''

D. A. Henss: ''I ah.. would like the Membership to know that

I'm opposed to it. However, I gave my speech of ah.. in

opposition ah.. when this ah.. similar Amendment was adopted

to the ah.. ah.. University of Illinois Budget just a fewmoments ago. It seems to me that ah.. alike Amendment will

probably be adop'ted to all of these ah.. Amendatory'ah..

ah.. all of these Appropriation Bills in Higher Education

and that we can very well get on with the business 'of the

House in that manner-'' '

Rep. Arthur A Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? The

question is,.... Do you wish to close, Representative

Hanahan?''

T. Hanahan: ''Same Roll Call Mr. Speaker.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe question is# 'shall Amendment

No. 6, to House Bill 4211 be adopteda'. All those in favor

signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have

all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question,

there are 95 'Ayes' 27 'Nays' and the gentleman's motion to#

adopt Amendment No. 6, to House Bill 4211, prevails. Are

there further Amendments? Third Rëading. House Bill 4374.'.I

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Houqe Bill 4374, an Act to make an appro-

s : .1 fo '? /*)ps G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yx k.'?.& i ; yu j-'k l . ; s'ra-rs oe l t-ulN oIsf. :w( ; =:.. . s o s a sea sss hj v.x v I v ssv. . . H Qtlsq x+t-tr'' r-

116.

priation, reappropriation to the Bôard of Governors of

State Colleges and Universities. Second Reading of the Bil .

Four Committee Amendments. Comlittee Amendment No. amen

House Bill 4374 on Page 1: andsofortho''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre-

sentative Campbell.''

C. Campbell: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladieg and Gentlemen of th

House, at the offset, let me say that ah.. thete are four

committee Amendments which I opposed in Committee but which

I am going to move to adopt now with the understanding that

ah... I'm going to offer four additional Amendments that hav .

been agreed to on 10th sides of the aisle. And, as far as

Co=nittee Amendment No. ai.. this Amendment ah.. came

to the... increas'es the amount of personal services and it

also transfers some items within capital. And, as a result

it has a net loss of a hundred or a reduction of $175.,229.

And, I move the adoption of Committee Amendment No.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentlevA '

man has offered to move the adoption of Committee Amendment

No. 1, to House Bill 4374. Al1 in favor of the adoption

signify by sœ ing 'aye', opposed 'no' the Amendment is# 'i adopted. Further Amendments?''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2', qmend House Bill 4374

on Page 14, andsoforth.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre-

sentative campbell.''

campbell: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

sv. '0 A xxw' s%%% l t'> ..h tsrws'k G E N E R A j. A s s E M B L Yvu.J ' x .k ,., .q jê A :. .J sva-ru oe Iuulaols'lt/ z =: .

.- ). r . eouss o s n censsssvxvlv ss* ', v . f)3*...71...- .

117.

the House, Committee Amendment No. 2 actually cuts six

millibn, five hundred and seven thousand dollars. And, I

move for the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 2.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there apy discussion? The gentle

man has offered to move the adoption of Committee Amendment

No. 2, to House Bill 4374. Al1 in favor of the adoption

signify by sayihg 'aye' the opposed 'no' the Amendment# #

is adopted. Are there fur'ther Amendments?''

Fredric B. Seleke: nCommittee Amendment No. amend House

Bill 4374 on Page l4, Section l0, andsoforth.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Simmons, for what

purpose do you rise, Sir?''

Simmons: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I believe, Number 3 con-

flicts with Number

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Just one moment and we'll take a loo

at it. Where does it conflict, Representative Simmons?u'

A. E. Simmons: ''Well, on ah.. Number ah.. Number 2. On Page

l4, Section l0, Line 18 aht. Amendment No. 3 should read,Z

ah.. ah.. 1$25,87... $25:878,8371 instead of the .$32,8..j ' 386,375'. And, it should also read, 'as amendedl-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The Clerk .could have changed the

Committee Amendmenk to ah.., unless there are objections.

Ah.. ah.. apparently, merely only a technical Amendment... a

technical change. Well then, the Chair will have to rule

that that Amendment is out of order. Representative Campbel. #

do you wish to ah..

C Campbell: ''We11, I think wedre in''the same position here

..c . u. . )-'-xj % 4 v v#% . G EN ERA L ASSEM BL;j!' ..'?L '... !, 21 tjg: r. a.!t . eA) svxv.s o.r Iuujso's. C.V 'J' @ . ' g a cp s c sjz hjy A,v jv Es. z H (; kl R 62 o*t$J .., &e%!z?

'- - . . w - ..... -.. . . ... ' '

l 18 .

as we ' vo 'Lixen a1l af ternoon . And ah . . ah . . , f ee1 that the

. 'Qlterk. ual . r-èzange those f igures . ''>. '

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''well,'the difference is, it's a

''Cooa ittee Amendment, Representative Campbell rather than an

Amendment cffered from the flcor. Ah.. ''

C- Campbell: ''Well, there will be an additional Amendment

offered to this which will change this Yigure, as amended.''

Rtj..'''Arthuz A.'-'relcser: ''Alright.. Representative Campbell,. J ' ..what the practice has been is to ah.. ah.. table Amendment

3 and then resubmit a corrected Amendment with a sub-

seqnent number . ''

C . Campbell : !'Well . could we . . . . ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Do you want 'tc take it out of the

recorda''

C. Campbell: nLet's take this out of the record for a moment-''

Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''And ypu can do it that way. And,#

that would then take care of the' conflict with Amendment

No. 3. Welre taking this out of the record with Amendment

Numbers 1 and 2 adopted and we're leaving it on Second Read-

.ing. Is thut correct? Amendments Number l and 2 have been

adopted. We're leaving the Bill on the order of Second Read

ing. We'll eome back tp it when the Amendments are properly

fixed. Okay? House Bill 4294...

Fredric B. SelcAe: ''House Bill 4294, a Bill for an Act to pro-

vide for thez ordinary and contingent expenses of Southern

Illinois Unizersity. . Second Reading of the Bi11. One

.committee Am'mdment. Amend House Bill 4294 on Page 6, Line

. *. .,-- . * .. -' '=4'.Q* ,.' ' ' % G E N E R A L A s s E M B L Y:) j, u . . -777,. .iç svxvu o,r Iuulsols'

...V.-. - '- eouss o.r aueasssxvxvlvcs...V'. . .. . . / . - . . -N't.%-,a. . .

119.

35, by striking '2,500,000', and inserting in lieu therecf

'4 lO6 500'...# #

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Jaekson: Represent -

tive Williams.''

J. B. Williams: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, Committee Amendment No. l simply. on Page 6,.Line 35,

strikes '2e500,00O'e and inserts in lieu thereof '4el06'500'.

This Amendment has been approved by the State Board of Highe

Education and it has been approved by the Bureau of the Budg t.

And, I would move the adoption of Committee Amendment No. 1.,'

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-

man's has offered to move the adoption of Committee Amendmen

No. to House Bill 4294. All in favor of khe adoption

signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no': the Ame/dment is

adopted. Are there further AmendmentsP'' '

J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 24 Hanahan, amends House Bill 4294

on Page 9: by inserting immediately below Line 2 the follow-

ing: 'Section l4. Any expenditures under this Xct must be

spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as

established by public policy'w''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from McHenry, Represent -

tive Hanahan.n

T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, once

again, this is an Amendment to insvre the faet that the

state Appropriation is spent in compliance with the establisAed

public policy of paying prevailing'wage. I move the adoptio

of Amend... of this Amendment.''

>- - - - . , , ...2'%'q . $) .. syla > @ GENERAL ASSEMBLYk-k't .-. r ..s : vs o e , uul s o I st f. a s'r-

. ..( z .r. . . ..r u z uousE olr aEielve:sceqnra'rlxlcs'. ...D %5''

120.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-

man'has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No.

to House Bill 4294.0 All those in favor signify by saying

'aye' opposed 'no' the Amendment is adopted. Are there# #

further amendmentsa''

'srien: ''Amendment uo. Hanahàn, amends House Bill 4294J. O ,

as amended, on Page l in Line' 12 by deleting ,57,425,140',

and inserting in lieu thereof '57,961,158.7 and in Line 25

by deleting 164,274,9001, and inserting in lieu thereof

'74 8l0 7186.''# #

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman frcm McHenry, Repre-

sentative Hanahan.''

T. J. Hanahan: ''Amendment No. 3, Mr. Speaker and Members of

the House. is similar to the Amendment that we adopted on

the University of Illinois ah.. Budget. It increases, accor -

ing to the letter received from Southern Illinois University

Board of Trustees, dated May 22nd and discussed before the

Appropriations Committee, suggests that at Soùthern Illinois

University at Carbondale and at Edwardsville, they will be

short $241,635 on the prevailing wage rates and on the

anticipated negotiated wag/ rates at S.I.U. at Carbondale

and at Edwardsville. the will be bhort $250,129 and the othe

non-academic employees in operation and maintenance at S.I.U

at Carbondale and at Edwardsville will be shcrt $35..34,254.

This Amendment, which approximately adds five hundred and

thirty some thousand dollars to the budget, is in accordance

with our wishes ah.. to thoroughly maintain and operate cur

- '- - U ' '*t 'e r?Jup '7cx - ' G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y<LQ ) S .A. ù '1' :kx.. . svxxe oe Iuul-odsr- 'n. .J.* LrZ, , ' s o u s c o er n s e R s s E: pI 'r A v d v e: s .#z. ss*,

yay.' h h sical plant area of SoutherUniversity commitments on t e p y

Illinois University. And, I urge the adoption of Amendment

No .

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any diseussion? Roll Calï?

Is there any discussion? Roll Call has been requested on

this ah.. question. The question is, 'shall Amendment No. 3

to House Bill 4294, be adopted?'. A1l those in favor signif

by voting 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted

who wished? Take the record. Tim Simms.. 'aye'. R. Carter .. *

'aye'. On this question, there are 97 'Ayes' and 23 'Nays'

and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 3, to Hous

Bill 4294, prevails. Are there further Amendments?''

O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 4, Harber Hall, amends Hous8 Bill 4 94,

as amended, on Page section Line 12 by deleting#

:$57,425,140% and inserting in lieu thereof '$57,205,840')

and on'page 1, Line 1, Section 1, Line 13e by deleting

1$7,747,200' and inserting in lieu thereof '$7,740,200.). '

and on page 1,' section 1, Line 14 by deleting '$6l8,O00t# anA'

inserting in lieu thereof '$615,000'2 and on Page 1. section

1, Line l5, by deleting '$2,633,400% and inserting in lieu

thereof 1$2,625,400.) and on Page 1, Line 1... Page 1, Sec-

tlon 1, Line 16 by skriking '$le9lO,lO0'e and inserting in

lieu thereof $1.844,100'; and on Pag e Section 1, Line 25,

by deleting '$74,274,700% and inserting in lieu thereof

'$73,971,400'..'

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from McLean, Representa/

tive Hall.''

....;' ' a ; ' w, hb> '. GEN ERA L ASSEM BLY. e4r.-l .î v !* . %(g'' *.'r' : l .* * Y' A Y EE * P' ' L L' ' 61 O ' S'. , H o u s e: o s R c e a e s c .4 'r x v 1 v s s .* .

yrz.

H. H. Halkz ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,

this Amendmeni reduces, I believe, itf: the last Amendment' to this ap/r6priation. reduces thë appropriation for Souther

Illin'oik. University in total amount of $303,300. Now, this

amount was appropriated and requested for the established

month of a Law School at Southern Illinois University. In

questioning of the Presidenty.president Dirge of Southern

at Carbondale. the only plan that they have is to hirer a

Chief Administrator of the Law Schoolf a Dean, ah.. and theyhave no further plans. But, the want to develop a Law Schoo

down there. And, I submit to this House that, at the rate

of Law Students being graduated throughout the Country. as

stated by the American Bar Association, we will be, aE least

fifteen thousand Lawyers exceeding the number of available . .

l positions for Lawyers in just a matter of three years. OnI

your desk, you will find distributed information of this

type. the leading one to conclude that we need no more Law

Studeoats ah.. no more new Law Schools in Illir is and one

should not go into the planning stage. particularlye in

Southern Illinois and, particularly , at this time. We have

just increased the University of Illinois' Budget by over

million dollars for expanding the Law school there. And,

would submit that, if any new Law Schools were to be con-

sidered, one should consider the Area arcund Sangamon County

as a possibility for a new School. We find in.. in ah.. ah. .

studies of the population.of this State that only fifteen

pereent of the population in Illinois live beyond a line

k *.)s* ' ' -,zJ' .i/ ' -' a/?;- J '1tP r G E N E R A L A S S E h. 1. B L Y; '=V) . J r3t sva'rc o!r , uulN o,ss% ' ; .* %'h.* --2:7** ' ' s o u s c: o e R c e s c s r.: N v A. v 1 v c s ., . ..T/t.. ,

. yra.

drawn East West and crossing here at Springfield. And yet,

the only concrete reason given by President Dirge for re-

questing this money was that.they need more Lawyers in

Southern Illinois. I would say to you this, that is twenty

percent of the Lawyers at the University of Illinois come

from out of the State, surely eighty to eighty-five percent

of those, who would enroll in Law Schools, should we build

one at Southern, would come from the States of Missouri,

Kentucky and Indiana. Ladies and Gentlemen, we must use

fiscal responsibility in these budgets. We have, today,

increased the total outlay by the state in the Area of....''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcs'er: ''Representative Slmmons, for what pur-

pose do you rise, Sir?''

A. E. Simmons: ''Mr.. Speaker, I believe, that ah.. 'ah.. Amend-

ment Number 3 ah.. conflicts with Number 4 or vice versa or

4 with 3..,

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Four'' with 'three. Letss take a look.

'That's a floor Amendment. Right? Ah.. Representative Simmo s,.--* '

this reflects the same type of conflict we've had all after-

noon on floor Amendments. Ah.. the Clerk informs me that

he could make the correction b0th in'the Title of the Amend-

ment and also ih the figure which would reflect the adoption

of Amendment No. Representative Lechowiez fcr what pur-#

pose do you riser'

T. s. Lechowicz: ''Mr. Speaker, I believe. you ruled previously

that the ah.. Amendment will be taken 8ut of the record so

the proper figures could be inserted. And then, we ah.. get1l .

I ,.3;3*% .1 ':h s'7?>-s G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YJ kz::$ )à.h)j sxxxc os ,uul-o,sw o., . ..

4 '*t 2 i:'.. ' +. . u o kl s E2 o F a E7 F: IR E s E pl T A. T I v E7 s'u i V't?..-. .

. la4.

back to' the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''Wel1, that was a Committee Amendment,

ah.. Representative Lechowicz.''

TJ S. Lechowicz: ''Well, actually. this was also in Committel

and then.....''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Was this avcommittee Amendment? Iim

under the impression...o''

T. S. Lechowicz: ''No, it was discussed in Committee. But, in

turn, it was never ah.. brought forward as far as an action

' as far as the Commitkee. And, I Uas hoping that the Speaker

would ah.. rule again, like he has done previously. that we

take this item out of the record momentarily sc that we coul

have it clarffied. I'd like to see the Amendatory..n '''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Well' ah . .-''

#

< .H . H. Hall : ''Ah . . Mr . Hpeaker, ah . . this is a relatively ah . .

simple 'Amendment either to prepare or to understand. It ' s

ah . . . It ' s ah . . only one amount f or one purpose and the

figures could be readily changed ah.. if the gentleman conc de

to that. Otherwise, I will pull it out. But, I believe,

that it could be very readily ah.. changed.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Do you persiste Representative Lecho-

wicz? The Sponsor indicates that he would withdraw... with-

hold it. And, we'would then hold it on the order of Second

Reading. However, to be consistent, the Chair has ruled

all day today ah.. that floor Amendments that reflect thes '# #

conflicts, were corrected by the Clerk. Vowever. the gentle

man indicates, you wish, he will.....''

'q .L TIj'A , . .,''' ' w. xgke-;'7x'' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yë%:' e ')$.,.. 'kt '. . i ) œ SYATE oF 1 uLl>IolsP'

, .t , ?. . .* .. . . z uou s e: o e' n c Ipa csc pl'r A-r 1 v c st oh* V ''fz p .. . : 5 ..

la5.

oT . Lechbwicz : ''No. 1: ' m sorry, Mr. peaker, I thought . yOu

ruled to the contrary . I with . . . withdraw my ah . . . . . ''

' Rep . Arthur A . Telcser : ''On ah . . On a Committee Amendmeni . ''

T . S . Lechowicz : ''Yes . .'

Rep . Arthur A . Telcser : ''Okay. . ''

H. H. Hall : ''Ah . . thank you , Mr . Lechowicz . ''

Rep . Arthur A . Telcser : '' Proceed S ir . ''. #

H. H. Hall: ''We note, in considering the advisability of

establishing a new public law school in the State, that the

enrollment in Law Schools has increased twenty percent ah..

year before last and fifteen percent last year. And, thia

year, in ah.. on the order of somewhere between fifteen and

twenty percent. I do not think that it is incumbent .upon th

state of Illinois to even pian a new Law school at th is time

facing these statistics let alone fund a new Law School. I

think,'that we have amply provided for those who would enter

into the Law at a State University just this day by increasi g

by over fcur million dollars the Law Department at the Uni-

versity. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,

would also draw to your attention that according to some#

Law Authcrities. that to provide an overabundance of Lawyers

on our market, will create a situation where the Lawyers are

making work for themselves in order to keep busy. This can

be a very dangerous thing in our ah.. Nation when ah.. Lawye s

ah.. find ah.. find the law useful to themselves in order

A his Body in consideringto make work. h.. suggest that t ,

a possibility of further outlays after this year on the orde

-----uz :' ' ' '28'> ' GENERAL AsssM Buv1 yj(.,; . j2 t :2 .? âr.'

,j svaxc o,r , uul-o's. t .,? rl - .' . HQkl SE o F R EPR E: SE N T A.T 1 */ E sT't) a .. . 5;:, *

126.

Of eicht millicn dollars for a new... for a new ah.. buildin

and n'ew plant to a millian, five hundred thousand dollars

for faculty and operational cost, nct to mention the cost

of a new Law Libr... ah.. the.. the contents of a New Law

Library, is going to be wastefule is going to be unneeded

and it.. worse than that, it's going to provide us with an

excess of Lawyers who have nothing to do except change the

Law' to provide more work that really isn't needed. I'ask

that you support the adoption of this Amendment.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Jackson, Repre-

sentative Williams.''

J. B. Williams: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, and I know that it's been warm in here and I sometime

wonder if the gentleman, that just spoke, has had a heat

stroke of some kind. Of a1l of the conversation that we've

had this afternoon about how... what... how great the need i

for Lawyers in the State of Illinois and for a Member to sta d

on the floor of this House and to imply of al1 places toA'

have one is in southern Illinois. I hope that he'll make

the same speech when I.S.U.'S Bill comes up and maybe we can

doctor it a little bit. The Law School for Southern Illinoi

University has been authorized by the State Board of Higher

Education. Their Bill has been approved by the Bureau of

the Budget. It has the backing of the Governor of Illinois.

And, I think, a11 of those people certainly are in a better

position tc pass judgement where tie need should be. I thinu

that this is an extremely bad Amendlent. didn't hear him

-.kqv kj. *'.Jv' -;.. . f *7:5 f ,- G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yë Qzft-: ? z,.>.1 2 i: e. j uujx oIst. . ; sva.r o. : 'j z v:. ' . '+< . / H o LI % E D F R E P Fl E 5 E - T A T I V e: S

l27

aking that speech awhile ago when they were expanding ihem

i k thi t i t wa s aLaw School at the U. of I . He seemed to th n

gdod deal to have it up there. Well, I'm here Eo tell you .

that there is a*tremendous need for a Law Sehool in Southern

Illinois University. And, it has been authorized by people

who are in a position to know where the need is most... wher

the need is the greatest. And. I would urge the defeat of

this Amendment.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman fm m Cook, Representa-

tlve Palmer-''R. J. Palmer: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I'd like

to speak in favo'r of the Amendment and it's not because of

any discrimination against Southern Illinois University or

Southern Illinois. It's just as worthy as any othet sectionof the state to receive .something of this nature. Bu't; as

the distinguished Majority Leader stated before, we needmoney for Medical Schools. We need more money for a 1ot of

things in this State and we have Lawyers coming öut of the

Law Schools too many to fill the positions that ah.. or to d

anything with actually practice Law. And, I would call your

attention to a.. a ah.. pamphlet or a sheet. that was circul -

ted, New York Times, Sunday, Pebruary 6th, which, I think, i

an accurate statement. It contains accurate statements wher -

in they state. 'with no increase in Law Schocls, the annual

rate of graduates will reach about 30,000 by 1974. But, the

Department Labor estimates that the average annual openings

for Lawyers until 1980 will be about 14,500'. And, that wou d'

v'U.I.s% . G ENER AL A SSEM BLY

I rjv.r.. e>. svxvs oc Iuulsols. ' ' .'.* . ': .* '$ ! . '' s obss o F IR EeR c s c N 'r A.'r j v Es. j, .. p.2...-

l28

be per year. Now, it's a question 'of priorities here in

.lAlinols. We don't need any more Lawyers.' It's not a ques-

tion ofu. of trying to maintain ah.. the profession as it is.

It's nct. n qu'estion of bright. young Lawyers coming out of

Law school: and replacing older hats. It will take a long

time for them to do that. Takes about five years, after

you''ve graduated, to become a Lawyer, às any Lawyer in this

'.,zHouqe reaTlqz' knows. But, we don't need any more appropria-. .j! .

tions in this direction. Wefve got enough Lawyers. We need

'tbe =oney for something else. And, I would suggest that we

'get.about the business of this House and put the money where

it's really. needed, Medical Schools or any other place where

the money is needed. I ask for the support of the Amendment.''

Rep. Arthur A. Te1 œ br: ''The gen tleman from Franklin, Repre-

sentative Hart.''

R. 0. Hart: ''Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentl =

men of the House. Ah.. with all' due respect to the last ah..'

éon who spoke on this Amendment I believe he missedper , , ,' .x .

the point completely. Now, there... as you all know there#

. has been a long range master plan for Higher Education in th

State of Illinois. This has been ah.. promulgated and re-

vised ah.. from time'to time. The long range plan for Highe

Education in Illinoisy in the legàl field, provides as

1 follows: rpuble the size of the Law School at the Universit

j of Illinois and place a Law School on the Carbondale Campusj . '

of southern Illinois .university. Now, those people, that

were entrusued to devise this plan, have given a lot more

-. V.L . .. . .. .....- vk. . ç 'x .

.J . j 5)! 2. -o u. .. =. T'--?->/ j . . G E N E R A L A S S E M I 3 L Yt' .% 'i'eq.t '.l j . t y ' I .. . j . s T A. T c o !# j t. u I N o 1 sx '.(x ; 'z. ' . o u s u: o g. a u e a s s s a q. A, 1. j v s s. ' xyy bllu rr, .p

!zaq.

study to it than, with al1 respect to the two gentleman who

are supporting this Amendment, than either one of them have

ever thought about. We have a lot of complaints from

constituents throughout the Southern part of the State,

throughout the entire part of the State, as Representative

Fary pointed out awhile ago, to the effect that you can't

get into Law School. And, th> problem was ah.. that you

don't understand about this particular Bill is, that in the

i Rural Downstate small Communities, we don't have enoughti, '

.Lawyers. Wedre not graduating any Lawyers fcr those small

towns. And, wetre the jobs of State's Attorney and other

important positions go for the asking. The job of State's

Attorney is becoming a sounding board for.. for a young'

Lawyer to get experience at'the expense and ah.. and without

Law Enforcement. It's a very important position. You canlt

get...' You can't get people from the City to live in small

towns. I think, most people know that. And, what we need

to do is to provide access from the small towns to educate

Lawyers who will then be willing to move back to the small

towns. I donlt care if youlve got fifty thousand extra

Lawyers in Chicago, we need them in Southern Illinois in the

Rural Downstate Communities. Andv this is the purpose of

this Law School among other things. We don't have too many

Lawyers. The Supreme Court is continually imposing burdens

upon the Bar Association to defend people without compensa-

tion ah.. at all stages of proceedings. They just recently,'

this week, said that everybody's entitled to a Lawyer in any

z.yj .; oiy4 ;D, G ENE RA L A SSEM BLY2 t..t'' t ) ...,, gw p t . ; s 'r a 'r E o e' , u u I èl o I s

. 'W , / ,=' L * s ou sc o F R e:eH Es u7 NTA.'F 1 v es .?. ' hh*u'v s..@ . .

1 ... .>

130.

case, at al1 timps, if there's a criminal penalty involved.

In our Area, we don't have enought people to represent those

persons. Weere afraid to go into the Court House for a fear

that we're going to get appointed to defend somebody anymore.

And, we have lots of people in our District and in the oEher

Districts who want to go to Law School who are qualified by

way of their education, but they can't get in because of the

limited space now available in Illinois. These are the kind

of things that were... were considered in the ah.. master .

plan. And, the results are that they recommend that the

Carbondale Campus have a Law School. Now, this.. this ah..

idea was kicked around in the Appropriations Committee ah. . y

Representative Hall and the others . And, it was ah . . not

roposed at that time . And, I believe , that it wa's theP

feeling of the Appropriations Com ittee, I know it ' s tie

feeling of the Board of Higher Education and ah.. those othe s

who are involved in Higher Education in Illinois, that now i

the time to begin. Ande we would like to have this appropri -

tion remain in this Bill so that we can begin to educate

Lawyers to take their place in the Rural Downstate Communi-

ties ah.. in many of our Districts. And ah... I know, that

there are many of your Districts where there are small towns

where they don't have Lawyers, where they need them, there i

a need for more Lawyers in Illinoi: and this Bill would pro-

vide it.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentlemân from Union, Representa-

' .. .. > ''''

ogbvjyzxh G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YJ s. r 'ja, tf.l $ I . . Yj s T A. T *: D F d t. L 1 b1 O I se ,*(.. ) Q'' 'e * . pj o u' s z o g' a c e R c s c h1 T' A T I v e: set ' s;p 'u .. J

, 131.

C. L. Clyde: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House. thinke that my Colleague, Represehtative Hart. has

adequately explained why thi: is an ill-advised Amendment.

Maybe welve m'issed the basic issue involved here. Maybe

the issue involved is a fact, not whether we need more Lawye s

or not, but whether we want more Lawyers or not. Down in

Downstate, like Representative Hart has' said, there is a

dyer shortagç of Lawyers. You can't find Lawyers to fill

the vacancies on the tickets to become candidates for State'

Attorney in a great number of your Counties in Scuthern

Illinois. The Higher Board of Education,. as well as peoples w

from other Universities, have agreed on the master plan that

Representative Hart spcke about. And, let me tell you some-

thing, don't tell' me that it's easy to get into Law School

in this State because, if you'll come back in my Office and

view my mail with me, you'll find that there's many return-

ing veterans from Viet Nam, both men and women, anxiously

awaiting an opportunity to further their education by enteri g

Law School somewhere in the State of Illinois. Now, I say

to you that this is taking the seed of education where it'

desperately needed and that's in the Southern most portion o

this State. I hope that we defeat this Amendment.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentlem' an from Kane: Representa-

tive Waddell.''

R. B. Waddell: ''Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman has moved the previous

question. A1l those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the

1 'v*%%% Q- ' 'W! '' z). t:-;?x. * t G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y' ; *- kr ') ly k svxvs os Iuul-ojsi t? ' '

: .. . V T' *.> . *1 ouss o e. R sea sse: a 'r A.'r I v ssi '''t. .'....Vs - - . .

opposed 'no' the gentleman's motion prevails. And, the#

gentleman from McLean, Representative Hall, to close the

debatee''

H. H. Hall: ''Mr. Speaker, in closing the debate, will attemp

to answer some of the questions in argument of those who

favor a study to provide a new Law School at Southern

Illinois. First of all, do not think it's practical to

say that, merely by establishing a Law School in the Souther

part of the State, that it's graduates are going to practice

and relieve a shortage of Lawyers in that Area. When we

speak of State's ah.. candidates for State's Attorneys, we

find thers are shortagos of candidates for State's Attorneys

throughout this State not just in Southern Illinois.' A11

small counties are having the same problem. And. essentiall ,

it's because of the salary level. When we speak about pos-

sibiliiies of shortages of legal advise and legal attorneys,

legal practitioners in Southern Illinois, why don't we:

at the same time: admit that we don't have enough Doctors

down there. We don't have enough Industry dewn there,

perhaps. We just don't have enough people down there. And,I th'ink, it would be a serious mistake for the State to

educate students from Missouri, Kentucky and Indiana at our

Law School in Southern Illinois when I know, first hand, of

students. who are going to night school at Dean Nobilis Law

school in Chicago who work all day long and go down and

attend Law School at night. And, they will find a way to

get their Law Degree. And ah.w dc so ah.. in addition to

'J * 51 ' 'e f vrrz'tnêr G E N E R A L A S S E M B L, Yv Y . $ aj aa jrx kcak. . ) s'rl'rs oe 1 uulN o ls$

. ' U''' ' ** . . Hotl SE D F R E PR ESE MT A.Y I V E 5 ..rt.r? z -. . ç.x.

2 -.z'

133.

holding down a full time job. I don't think that it's in-

cumbent upon the state o.f Illinois to open up advanced de-

grees in a11 Areas of Education throughout the State simply

nn the basis of location and situs. We have an outstanding

Law school at the University of Illinois. And, when the'

gentleman refers to my favoring one Law school and not an-

other, I think, perhapse that's a fallacy and the fault that

we experience in this Genéral Assembly when we engage in

some logrolling. Pre... Presumably, if I supported ah..

an increase in appropriations for a Law school in Il1i... at

the University of Illinois, I should do likewise for any

other University who applied for the same type of funding.

This is a mistake and I would not care to engage in it. I

think, we have here the possibility to slow down a program

that has been over-heated up,cthat is, establishing a n:w

school for Attorneys ai a' university that has not prepared

itself for it and will not provide a total service to the

total State of Illinois. And. I would ask for your 'green'

lights on this Amendment-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall Amendment

No. 4, to House Bill 4294, be adopted?'. All those in favor

signify by voting 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no'. The

gentleman from Dupage, Representative Hudson, to explain his

votez The gentleman from Macon, Representative Borchers.''

Borcherp: ''Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members of the House, in

explaining my vote of 'yes' on this Amendmen t, we have.. I

live in Decatur and we have really d' glut of ah . . young

VA4%. v'.ko ' G EN ERA L ASSEM BLY

. T-'t ' ') àe , 'j;.. ç.X .J .. j w'r a 'r e o p' 1 u u I p: o I s. $1;t- z =.. . . '- H ou s.E o F R e: BR Es E NT A T' 1 v e:s

q Y

'

134.

Lawyers in our Community. Theydre'not... Some of them are

not doing too good. We've even had a little trouble gettin

a young man ah., to run for étate's Attorney. Now ah.., I

suggest, with the increasing number of Lawyers in the next

few years, that Decatur is going to get more than their shar .

And, with another year or so, they will not be able to make

a l'iving there. Ah.. by sheer necessiEy. they're going to

have to move.into Southern Illinois to get something ah..

some business going. But, I do want to point out to Souther

Illinois people. since I am on the edge of this Areap that

the'people are leaving Southern Illinois. There's no guaran *

tee ah.. that Lawyers from a University in Soutbern Illinois

w il1 stay and live and work and practice in Southern Illinois.

' They're going to do like all the rest of the people... the

young people are doing. They're going to try to go to

chicago or Decatur. Why, if le get many from Southern

Illinois, Peoria and other place's of greater population.

So, I think, we should start the practice of going to theA '

tremendous expense of the millions of dollars that'll take

to establish a new Law School.''I .l Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-I .

I '' tive Hyde.''

H. J. Hyde: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, it is .futile to ah.. argue

against the ah.. ah.. prevailing mocd because, obviously,

this Amendment ah.. ah.. is not going tq prevail. Bpt, I..

I think, those who are not paying a great deal of attention

ought to notice that, if there was real sincere desire to

..k k '-.w;i .o 8. q:> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y. (6 ' ' , ) (hv'.u $- :1 '. ' 3 z s 'r .. v e o e . u u I 'q o ' s%t; ;k,..- .* < ' PIGU 9Z O F F1 CP R CS E NT A.W' 1 V CS44.u o4,

135.

help pebple go to Law School in Southern Illinois rather

than the Empire Building, this Law School would be built in

' Edwardsville near East St. Louis near the population where

people could commute, where they wo lldn't have to change

their residence, where more people would be available and

accessible to the Law School to get this legal education.

But instead, this Law School is being put down in Carbondale

and it is a further example, in my judgement, of well-inten-

tion, but nonetheless, ah.. ah.. defilite empire building

and designed, not primarily to se>vice the Community and the

Public, but to ah.. add another jewel in the crown of Car-

bondale-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Have a1l vcted who wished? Take. the

record. Qn this question, Vhere are 40 'Ayes', 'Nays'

and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 4, to Heuse

Bill 4294, fails. Representative Hudson, for what purpose

do you rise, Sir?''

G. Hudson: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,xe

in the Balcony. to my righty are three lovely Ladies from

Dupage County representing the American Field ah.. Service...

Services. And: they have with them a group of eleven or

twelve students from ah.. various. parts of the World, ah..

students here from Germany, Viet Nam, Peru: East Africa,!

South Africa, Yugoslavia. Ireguay: Belgium, zngland,

Ecuador and Australia. They have spent the morning ah..

touring New Salem and ah.. our environments here in Spring-

field and they are now here to watch our appointed State

/4% GENERAL ASSEMBLY. ttlj . j ï x.q. d x e' .; u' vvxvz o p. 1 u u! sl o Is!;/,

,?' n'.a.* .* Qlu x . . x. H o u s l o F H E P' IR E 5 E - T A. T 1 v e: %! . e

136.

Legislature in action. so, I welcome ah.. them with open

harms and a warm heart. And ah.., they are ah.. would....

: us jjWould you stand.up, please? In the ah.. Gallery to my r g .

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there further Amendments? Third

Reading. House Bill 4374. Yes, House Bill 4374 has been

read a Second Time. Amendments Nc. l and 2 have been adopte .

Representative Campbell. do you wish to take from there?''

C. Campbell: ''Now, Mr. Speaker, sinçe we've gotten resolved

some of our problems, I'm going to move to adopt ah.. Ccmmit

tee Amendment No. 3 and No. 4 even though they are technical y

incörrect. And then, ah.. move to table those two Amendment *.

And, thereby, will not have to offer ah.. one.. one of

the four Amendments which I was going to offer before.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman has offered to move

the adoption of Amendment No. 3 and 4 to House Bill 4374.

All in favor of the adoption aignify by voting 'aye', the

opposed 'no' the Amendments are' adopted. Nowe the gentlema. # .

moves that those Amendments be tabled. A1l those in favorof the gentleman's motion to table Amendments No. 3 and 4,

to House Bill 4374, indicate by saying 'aye', the opposed

'no' and the Amendments are tabled. Are there further

Amendmentsa''. . * '

J. o'Brien: ''Amendment No. 5, Campbelb, amends House Bill 4374

( as amended, by House Amendment No. 2, by restoring Line 35i

l on page 14 of the Bill. And, the restored Line to read asfollows: 'equipment $503,3551.''

Rep. Arthur A. .Telcser: ''The gentleman from Vermilion Repre-#

'

axT ' rl/'t t'''lnx G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y?(t:- ' lz,.A.,t svavs .e Iuulpjolsî . . .. ' ' J. 9 'Q

. +. Hotlse oF R':I*RESC:NY-TIV'e;S

NY 1AG;XP2 '

137.

sentatfve campbell.''

c. campbell: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of th' House, this restores the physical plant building at Eastern

' b th sides of the afsl .Illinois University. I ve talked to o

I know of no opposition and I move to adopt ah.. Amendment

NO . 5 . ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-

man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 5,

to House Bizl 4374. A1l in favor of the adoption signify

by saying 'aye', the opposed 'nol. the Amendmqnt is adopted.

Are there further Amendments?''

J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 6, Campbell. amends House Bill 4374,

as amended, by House Amendment No. 1, by restoring L.ine'3l

on Page 9.of the Bill, the restored and amended Line to read

as follows: 'improvements - $75.000.7 and by amending the

dollar'amount in Line 28 on Page 10 of the Bill to read

,$263 332'.'1#

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre-

sentative Campbell.''

C. Campbell: ''AK.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, this restores part of the planning money ah.. which

had originally been taken out, roughly fifty percent of it,

at ah.. Chicago State and Governor State. I move for the

adoption of Amendment No.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-

man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 6, to

House Bill 4374. All in favor of the adoption signify by

G4:. qlD. . . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y%: -rJ' :) ' jzp'hî t sv ...r e o c ' u u , .. o 1 sê f a - .. l $..?, .. ...* $'< . Hotlel oe F'EPF'ES.EPITATIVE:S .

. yaa.

saying ''aye'. the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted.

Are there further Amendments?''

J. o'Brien: ''Amendment No. 7. campboll, amends House Bill 4374

on Page 8 by inserting after Line 35 the following: 'For

planning for a Fine Arts Building, including construction

documents - '$250.000'.'.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Vermilion, Repre-

sentativo Campbell.n

C. Campbell: ''AK.. Mr. Speaker and Ladie's and Gentlemen of the

House, Amendment No. ah.. was originally $4,755,000. It

has been reduced to $250,000. And, I move for the adoption

of Amendment No. 7.,'

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The 'gehtle-

man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 7,

to House Bill 4374. All in favor of the adoption signify

by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amendment is adopted.I

Are there further Amendments?''

J. O'Brien p ''Amendment No. 8, Campbell, amends House Bill 4374

as amended, by House Amendment No.

Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''AN.. Representative Campbe11....''

C. Campbell: ''That Amendment/ wedre not going to offer because

it was taken care of ah.. through' the tabling of Amendment

WO . 3 . ' '

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Okay.. Letls not consider this Amend

ment. Would the Clerk renumber the Amendments so they ah...

Are there further Amendments?''

J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 8, Hanahan, amends House Bill 4374,

'Xz, ? ' ' $ e'js, ) . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y. /.).- : , .,., j. k. . ; s'ra'rc oe luulhlolsî: d ; c' . . .* '+' t v. . H o Kl % K o F R e; P R E S E: N T A T I V e; s .

139.

as amended, on Page 1, Line l4, by striking ,$8,241,800',

and inserting in lieu thereof '$8e360e200'; and ön Page le

Line 26 by striking '$9.953,900,, and inserting in lieu

thereof 6$10,072,30012 and on Page 1, Line 29 by striking

.$11,077,499% and inserting in lieu thereof 9$11,495,100';

and on Page 2, Line 6 by striking .$13,993,099', and insert-

ing in lieu thereof 1$14,415,700,7 and on Page 2, Line 24,

by striking 57,574,700', and inserting in lieu thereof

1$7:762,400') and on Page 3, Line 1 by striking $$9,284.100%

and inserting in lieu thereof '$9,471,8001: and on Page

Line 4 by striking '$14, 265,200% and inserting in lieu

' thereof .$14,598,300,7 and on Page 3, Line 16 by striking

'$17,100,800% and inserting in lieu thereof 6$17,433,90017and on Page 3, Line 29 by strik'ing '$57 300 823' a'nd in-# # #

serting in lieu thereof''$58,357.624'.'' '

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: 'iThe gentleman from McHenrye Reprem

sentative Hanahan. Representative Simmons, for what purpose

do you rise. sirr'.A

A. E. Simmons: ''Ah.. this Amendment conflicts with Amendment

KO . 1 . ''

T. J. Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker, ah.. so that we do the same thing,

either the clerk to resubmit the numbers ah.. according to

the formula or the Clerk could change the title of the Amend .

ment and also the fiqure which was,altered by Amendment No. .''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: f'Righto.f''

T. J. Hanahan: ''What it does, Mr. Spe'aker, my Amendment, in

essencee is seeking to add $1,046,466 to the amended Bill.

N 'jj. *y->, ) . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y, Qs 7t j. :f' J % ' '; ' k .). . jj s 2Y oA J * 0 P' ' Q Q i N O ' S. . - , so sseaussavxvlvest

, . .

140.

In.. In effect, what would do, would be to allow, accordi g

l h Board of Governors of Stat'e Collegesto the etter from t e

ahd Universities, according to their figures, ih response

to your specific question the following information is pro-

vided. And, to include for Chicago State, Eastern Illinois

University, that's for Bill Cox by the way, ah.. Noytheaster

Illinois University, Western Illinois University, the salary

increases for the faculty .and non-academic employees would

not lay off for reduction from new salary increase funds for

fiscal year are as follows: It comes to one million,

forty-six thousand, four hundred and sixty-six dollars. And

this Amendmenty'that I'm offering, would put in effect the

same rationale we used on the other Bills, in ah.. in amend-

ing the other Bills to include the prcper funding for the

maintenance and operation and for all the non-academic'

employees of these Universities so that they could maint>ineN

and operated at the proper level. And I urge the adoption#' .

of the Amendment. If you want to hold the AmendMent until

T reinsert all of the figures according to the amended Bill,

I will.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The Clerk can do thate Representative

Hanahan.''

T. J. Hanahan: ''So. I move... urge the adoption of this Bill.

The debate should be reéted on the fact that we're increasin

one million dollars.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The questio

isp 'shall Amendment No. 8, to House Bill 4374, be adopted?'.

a . ti%$k em dN GENERAL ASSEMBLY

.- ekz. qzf$#.j : svxx., .e. puujaolsP ;'' ,$ . ( . ih . . @ .* *.ke . e1 ousK o F R EI>R e:s c MT'AT 1 v Es

141.

Al1 those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed...

Roll 'Call? All those in favor signify by voting 'aye', the

opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take '

the record. On this question. thçre are l0O 'Ayes', 26

'Nay's' and the gentleman's motion to adopt Amendment No. 8,

to House Bill 4374, prevails. Are there further Amendments?''

J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 9, Hanahan, amends House Bill 4374

on Page 16 by inserting ilmediately below 14 the following:

'section 12...1...

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from McHenry, Repre-

sentative Hanahan.''

T. J. Hanahan: ''This is the Amendment that, 'any expenditure

under this Act must be spent in compliance with the prevaili g

wage rates as established by public policy'. I urge its

1; 'Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: Is there any discussion? The gentle-;

man has offered to move the adoptio: of Amendment No. 9,

to House Bill 4374.... Representative Simmons, for what

purpose do you rise, Siran!

A. E. Simmons: ''Would th@ Clerk read where that's effectivea''' Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''Certainly.. Would you proceed Mr.. #

Clerk?''

J. O'Brien: '''section l2. Any expenditures under this Act mus

be spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as

established by public policyl.''

R:p. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman has offered to move the

adoption of Amendment wNo. 9: to Houée Bill 4374. All in fav r

. %) e 'G lrR> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yvg t )?y'.h. :y..j du t s'ra'rk oF 1 Lulelols. k ? . n ' . ' . s o u' s s o e. a s e s s s s - w A, x 1 v s s

. ' q t . . . .- .. .. . .

. y42.

of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'nd'.

the Amendment is ado/ted. Are there further Amendments?

Tiird Reading. House Bill 4293.''J. O'Brien: ''House Bill 4293, a Bill for an Act to provide for

the ordinary and contin.....''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''You want that out of the record, Repr -

sentative springer? Do you want that out of the record?

Take that out of the record. House Bill /449.''

J. o'Brien: ''House Bill 4449, a Bill for an Act to provide

for the ordinary and contingent expenses and distribution

expenses of the Illinois Junior College Board. Second Read

ing of the Bill.' Two Committee Amendmepts. AmendmenL No. ,

amends House Bill 4449 on Page Line... Section 6, Line 33,

by striking.moo''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Lee, Reprebentati e

shapiro.'' .

D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I couldn't hear him. Cauld

E he read the Amendment again?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''oh! I'm sorry. Would the Clerk ple se

read the Amendmenta''

O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 1, amends House Bill 4449 on Page .

section 6, Line 23 by striking '$141,110,000:, and insertin

in lieu thereof 5138.110,000'..'

D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. qspeaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, this Amendment reduces the Capitol construction

by $3,000,000. It has the approval of the Junior College

Board. And, I urgc its adoptiono''..

9%

z > $ : p, 9 . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y4 tq. r , , sy j1 0. 'v svxv.y oe luulxolsî j it.n'.'.-, .V +'J. . H o k) l E o F n E P R E G E N T AT j v E S

, s% .

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle

man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. to

House Bill 4449. All in favor signify by saying 'aye', and

the opposed 'no' and the Amendment is adopted. Are there

further Amendmenks?''

J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 2, amends House Bill 4449 on Page 4.

Line 6, by striking 53,960,000', and inserting in lieu there

of '$3 200 0001.'.# #

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from Lqe, Representa-

tive Shapiro-''

D. C. Shapiro: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House

this Amendment re-. ah.. reduces the ah.. retirement by ah..

approximately .$760,000'. And, I urge its adoption.n

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-

man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment 2 to Hous# .

Bill 4449. All in favdr of the adoption signify by saying

'aye', the opposed 'noî and the Amendment is adopted. Are#

.there further Amendments? '''.A

J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 3, Blades. amends House Bill 4449,

on Page 2 by striking Line 27 through 34 and inserting-...

on Page 3 by striking Lines l thrdugh 6 and inserting in 1ie

thereof the following: 'in order for Junior College Distric

to qualify for a full special grant for foundation level

supporting in its levy tax for the educational fund, and

building operation and maintenance fund as a combined rate

of .1745%, or above, for the current fiscal year.q

Arthur A Telcser: .''Representati/'e Shapiro for what pur'-Rep. . y

...g' . w... .f ;).A.1P . GENERAL ASSEM BLY* 74% c ï 'p : v e. o jr j u u j a o j sœ tix . ; .

Y,j .

s'F A.. Ue t 2. 'T . '. ' @ . yj o u s s o Ie n j: e n s s s a v A. v I v E st * *

y'<l a x *

144.

pose do you rise, Sirm'

s I 'D. C. Shapiro: ''AK.. Mr. peaker, if that s the Amendment that

I think it is. that s not a Committee Amendment.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''That's a flcor Amendment from Repre-

sentative ah.. ah.. Blades.''

D. c. Shapiro: ''Is there... Is there not another Committee

Amendment, Committee Amendment No. 37.'

Rep. Arthur A. Nelcser: ''No, ah.. The Clerk informs me that

there are only two Committee Amendments, Representative

shapiro.''

D. c. shapiro: nAlrighto-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcver: ''Representative Simmons, for what pur-

pose do you rise?''

simmons: ''Ah.. Mr. Speakere I was trying to get your

attention when we were around Committee Amendment No. 1. '

And, I wanted to ask a 'question that, I think, is pertinpnt

of the Sponsor.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Proceed, Sir. I'm sure hè'll answer.''.>.e

A. E. Simmons: ''Ah.. On your Committee Amendment No. le you'r '

changing a hundred and forty-one million ah.. to a hundred

and thirty-eight million on ah.. Line Why didn't you

change it on the line above- . a couple lines. above there

that repeats the same amount of moneya''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Simmons, could you

repeat your question, please? The gentleman from Lee ah..

could not hear you.''

A. E. Simmons: ''On Amendment No. 1, yDu amended the Bill on

c kz..j';pM* G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y. tcjt r .j,,.: t* jk . j sT A.T K: o F' 1 L L 1 N o l S'.( )..k.. .* % ..' . z. Hotzsr oe a'celzssc-'rA 'rlvE5

.t, z .. . s-jp*..

145.

Line ah.. on Page 4. Line 33, changing a hundred and forty-

one million. a hundred and ten thpusand to a lesser amount.

But, on Line 23 of the same Bill. same amount, a hundred

and forty-one million, a hundred and ten thousand is used.

Why didn't you change that amount?''

D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. I believe, the point is ah.. is well tak .

That.. That sum .was not ah.. changed. But, I do understand

that it is the.. the line'item amount which ah.. takes...

holds ah.. precedence. It could be corrected in Enrolling .

and Engrossing.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Okay.. The Clerk tells me that En-

rolling and Engr'ossing can take care of ah. . correcting tha

one item, Representative Simmons. Nowy can we revert to

Amendment No. 3, Representative Shapiro? Is your Rind clea

now that there are only'two Ccmmittee Amendments? Oka#..Ah.. Amendment No. 3, the gentleman from Wayne, Representa-

tive Blades.''

B. C. Blades: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentleme'n of the

House, Amendment No. 3 merely changes the language of House

Bill 4449. It does not ah.. deal with any figures. It does

not increase the appropriation. %Ae money is already in

appropriation. Bute under the present language of the Bill,

any Junior College District which is not charging a tuition

ah.. will lose money under.. under the present equalization

in the present appropriation. The Olney Junior College in

Southeastern Illinois ah.. levies Ehe rate of $.25 per hund d

where normally, the average levy isuabout $.17. so. the..

'.>ok ENER AL A ssEM uLv* . t - Gv tt.x $. j a <. jl.'s s h ; svx'rs og IuulaolsFl . $. ' ?y.''' .. , sotlss oe acpacsslqvxmjve:sy. 't' p . . r.!z

146.

the people, we, there in the Olney Junior College, make up

the difference ah.. by a tax levy rather than ah.. then by

tuition. I urge your support.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-

man from Lee, Representative Shapiro.''

D. C. Shapiro: ''Mr. Speak... Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentleme

of the House. I'm opposed to this Amendment for the follow-

ing reasons: What is being done here is that the qualifying

rates for equalization, which is a line item of l.4 million

dollars, is being changed. Naw, think, you will recall

that in the last Session, when the equalization eoncept was

first introduced into the Junior College Bill, many of us

opposed it. mainly on the reason that it... for the reason

that it did not include locàl tuition effort. Now. this

equalization line item does include local tuittion effort.

It just happens to be that there is one Downstate Junior

College District that does not charge ah.. tuition. That

Junior College District is East Illinois, Eastern. Now, the

Trustees Associâtion Council of Presidents and the Junior

College Board worked out an appropriation this year, that

everyone seem to think is fair and balanc' ed. And, the Board

of Higher Education, the Bureau o.f the Budget concurred.

Now in addition to this equalization, there is also

million for disadvantaged and $750,000 for local public

service programs. Nowe this Amendment, which is being made

on behalf of this one Junior College Disirict in the state,

ah.. ironieally this will increase this Junior College's

,. '' rx'q.'' ..'' ..

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147.

equalization to $500,000 which will be the lion's share of

the 1'.4 millicn dollars., Now, I submit to you khat, since

the l.4 has not been increased, by inereasing Illinois

Eastern's equalization grant from approximately $250,000 to

$500,000, it is going to take $250,000 away from the other

seven Junior College Distriets that can qualify. Now, Illi-

nois Easterne ofviously, objects to a qualification provi-

sion which requires a minimum loeal effort as far as tuition

is concerned. And, as I've said before, they are the only

Downstate District that does not charge a small tuition.

However, if they do charge several fees which average about

$2.00 per credit hour, they also. under this Bill, get an

additional qualifying credi't because they're loeal tax rate

exeeeds the .1745 cents whieh is necessary to qualify for

i l al credit supplied, they wo'uldequalization. Now: wit oe

need only an additional one.. one dollar and fifty-three.

cents tuition per credit hour which would be the lowest in

the Sta#e. Now, at the tile the Junior College System wascreated. equalization grants were not a part of the funding

formula. The General Assembly should have the right to pro-

vide some guideline and a few minimum standards for funding

by the State of Illinois over and above flat grant alloca-

tions. I think, this is a bad Amendment. It should be de-

feated. It works to the detriment. of seven other Junior

College. Districts in Southern Illinois that do happen to do

qualify. It upsets a well-formed Bill. And, I don't think,

that this General Assembly should c'6nsider this Amendment

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Rdy&. ArLlfar A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Dupage. Represent -

Y 661RYF1 i' 'Y VV lI0 .

G '.'--.'.: ' Hof f'man : ' ''Mr. speaker, ruadies and Gentlemen of the Hous p

.1 too rise Qz opposition to this Amendment. During the 1as

ah.. Sessic'h of the General Assembly, ah.. I met with the

President of this ah.. this College as well as the President

'W-' their Louzzl Board with a grcup of other pecple ah. . in-;' x :.l &:2tt>; J ' .volved in the Trustees Association and we discussed, at

Sgreat lengtb', the whole equalizaticn concept, the concept

whièh, on iids face, I'm cpposed to. And, it... it's... I'm *

oppcsed to 5:u because of the way in which ah.. assessments

are done across the State. They vdry ah.. from a twenty

percent level of ah.. of real value or lower to a high of..

of ah.. sixty .percent. And, they use this as a criteria ah..

for any more funding of school programs than we do alreadye 1

I.. I believaa, is a mistake. Bu't, on top of my objection tc

the equ>lization aspect, the present program which is in-

cluded in this Bill, was worked out ah.. with interested

parties. This Amendment is the ah.. result of somebody who

didn't get... didn't get his way ah.. with his own group.

And so, he's going to' come ah.. sömeplace else and work

outside of that arrangement. I don'.t think, this is good

for ah.. thekmlnior College and the Junior College operation

ptt'e I don't think it's good for the Legislat'veacross the S-t. . ,

. process where'sze attempt to work out as many things possible

.in other waysvu Ah.. thereftlre, I would ah.. request your

. .Jrw vgK%wu %. r ,> A 7* G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YTtsr .k ., , x. jê r ' . ' ! )1 . svAv.s oe Iuudhols

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l49 .

support of... defeat of this particular Amendment.''

'' h tleman from F'ranklin Repre-Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: T e gen #

sentative Hart.?

R. 0. Hart: ''Would the Sponsor yield to a question?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser; ''He indicates he wâll.''

R. 0. Hart: ''Ah.. Representative Blades, I'm sorry. I was

# ' dm tof the f loor momentarily when you explained the lmen en .

Would you. brief 1y, tell me what this Amendment does ?''

B. c. Blades: ''Yes, Representative Hart. Ah.. ah.. what the

Amendment does is changes the language in the present Appro-

priàtion Bill. Ah.. if you'll recall, last year we got a *

million dollars equalization money. Now ah.., for some of

our poorer ah.. Junior Collgges Downstate. Now, this langua e,

in the present Bill, would deprive the Olney Junior College,

according to the -ah.. President of the College, of $250,000

that is already in the appropriation simply because we do '

not ah.. charge a tuition. Now/ if we charged a tuition, 'I .!

'we would. be entitled to that. But, since we do nct charge

a tuition, welre not entitled to it. Now ah....''

R. 0. Hart: ''Well. alright. Now, if the.. if the Olnqy Junior

college dâdn't get the $250,000, where would it go?''

Blades: ''Wel1 I can't answer that. That, I don't know.'#

R. 0. Hart: ''We1l. I'd like for you to take this out of the

record until you can answer that question because, you knowe

you and I spcnsored the Amendment for the ah.. Equalization

Formula last Session.''

B. Blades: ''Right..''

. SrM GEN ERA L ASSEM BLYyr . gê fut . e*A . svx..s oe ,uu,soIsk . # ' c* '' ** > ; . '. HotllK oe IRFeREIeS-TA.TIV/S

150.

R. 0. Hart: ''And, I'm concerned, and I think some of the rest

of us are concerned, about the redistribution of the money.

If it isn't going to affect the money that goes to the othe

Junior Collejes, ah.. who are included in the equalization,we would have one position on it. If it is going to affect

them, think. we ought e have... we may have another posi-

tio'n. And, if you could take this out 'of the record until

we can get that resolved, I think, we might be able to work

something out.''

B. C. Blades: .'Well, mine's merely an Amendment and the Bill

was.called. Maybe Doc Shapiro can.. can answer that ques- .

tion. I don't know.''

R. o. Hart: ''well, he.. he.. Doctor Shapiro said that would

redistribute the hillion and a half dollars. And, I'm in-

clined to agree with him. And, unless you can ex..., you

know, show that it won't ah.. we're going to oppose your# .

Amendment.''

B. C. Blades: ''Redistribute a million and a half dollars?''.A '

R. 0. Hart: ''That's right. In other words, it would redistri-

bute, and.. and to put it into Doctor Shapiro's language,

would give the Olney Junior College the lion's share'.

And, we didn't invision the ah.. ah.. equalization in that

way. And, for that... And, if Yha: is true, then, I'm

inclined to think that it is true, then weire going to oppos

the Amendment.''

B., Blades: ''Well, I.certainly wouldn't have any Amendment

on there, Mr. Hart, if it was going to cost the Olney Junior

z wT'v x'o slr,n'.u G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yqf'-% ,s ,t h jjq ..f . r p- svxv.s oe iuuj-orsf. , .. . ' '.':. ! .

4 - Hokls? OF REPRI/I-TA.TSNICF? ..2 . *

151.

College District a million dollars. What I'm trying to do

is save.....''

R. 0. Hart: ''No. That isn't what I saide''

B. C. Blades: lIs to save $250,000 for Olney Junior College

that's alread: in the appropriation.''

R. 0. Hart: ''That isn't what I said. What I said, and I was

repeating only what the Sponsor said, #ou take the... you

don't increase the amount of money that's available vnder

this formula. But, what your Amendment may do is to re-

distribute the million and a half dollars so that the Olney

Junior College would get more than, we think, they're en- -

titled to. Andy if that is true, then, of course, the only

plaae to take or get that mon'ey wculd be from the other

Junior Colleges who are going to get it under the formula.

Now, there are seven or eight Junior Colleges who qualify

under this ah.. equalization formula because ah.. cf the

theory that they have less money' available per studept for'education and the State should help. And agree with that#

aM '

wholeheartedly. But ah.., if we're going to now ah.. take

away the theory in favor of one of'the Junior Colleges at

the detriment of the other, then, I ihink, we're beginning

to evade the principle. And, I want you to ah..# you know:

if you can assure me that that is' not true, we'd have one

position on it. If it is true, then welre going to oppose

:i. t ''

B. C. Blades: ''We1l, a1l I know is what the President ah.. ah.

of the Olney Junior College ah.. came to Fairfield and told

>- ' - - - - = k ' .v '' ...''. '*% .; x

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152.

me. And, this is what we needed in order to save $250,000

that we couldnlt get. It seems to a1l stem around the fact

d t charge tuition inthat we do not change... that we o no

the Olney Junior College District. Getting the ah.. Distric

to ah.. ah.. vote in the Olney Junior College District..om''

R. Hart: ''I.. I understand that. I understand that. But,

I'm requestinq you now ah.. o.r the Sponsor of the Bille if

' ah.., I guess. that would be his prerogative, to take this

' Bill out of the record for a few minutes until we can resolv.

*

the difference of an opinion that seem to be ah.. to prevail

between you and Doctor Shapiro and me as to what this would

do to the money available for the other Junior Colleges in

Southern Illinois.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Shapiro, do you wish

to take your Bill out of the record?''

D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr... Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen

of the House, I have been waiting with this Bill for several

weeks now. The.. The Amendment ah..4 I think, would do

irreparable harm to seven other Junior Colleges in the State.

Let's vote it up or down and be done with it because there

are other Amendments that heed to be placed on the Bi1l.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Do you wifh to proceed, Representativ

Hart?''

R. 0. Hart: ''Ah.. yes. Well, I'm inclined to agree with ah..

Representative Shapiro. And, would say thaty I think, it'

unwise for ah.. one Junior College, which is thought to bene

fit of this type of.. of Amendment and ah.. and received

.. s a ' 'n-...z '

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. t .t ./ V*.. ' ' .' . . H Q t) S E O F R t P r: E S E e4 T A Y 1 V e l

153.

last ymar ah.. through the ah.. Sponsorship of Representati

Blades and Myself with the help of the Appropriations Commi -

d of course, the Members of this Body, to achievetee an .

some financial stability among ah.. the Junior Colleges in

ah.. the Area where the assessed evaluation is less. Nowe

to come in and try to invade the principle of the thing in

favor of one College. And, believe. that this Amendment

should be defeated. And, I ask the Members ah.. to vote

'no' on the Amendment.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there f'urther discussion? The

gentleman from Effingham, Representative Keller-''

C. P. Keller: ''Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentle-

men of the House. I think, this is a good Amendment.and I'l

tell you why. The people in' Southeastern Illinois levy

a tax of twenty-five percent or twenty-cents against their

people whereas most of the other Junior Colleges only levy

a tax of one-seven-eight or one-seven-five and they, the

people in the Area, are paying this here additional ah..ve

tuition stuff where the other Junior Colleges are charging

it. I think, that they are deserving Uf the extra money.

And, I think, that we should give it to Vhem. Just because

theylre charging their own local .people this and trying to

do a good job and operate three campuses, which is the only

Junior College operating three campuses, I think, that we

should vote this Amendment up. Thank you.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''I.s there further éiscussion? If not,

the gentleman from Wayne: Representative Blades, to close

q %'' ' ' . ,' T.. r'm ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y;. t %:.j .T'.> : svwv.c .,, ,uu,solsr4 . . . $l r.j ) r! . .. ' . s s s ,, v g x j .e s. .. , qsouss oe sees( .

154.

the debate.''

B. C. Blades: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,

I merely want to tell you that I have always supported the

Junior Colleqe Programs since it started. And, in order 'to

get our District there to vote for the tax for Junior Col-

leges, we were told by those in authority in the educational

fieldy who were ah.. shaping this Junior College Program,

that they would be tuition free. I believe, that you should

keep your word. I'm trying to keep the word to the people

. in the ozney aunior cozlege that khey would still be tuition

f ree . Now, in order to get them to approve of a twenty-f ive

cent on a hundred dollar assessment. . . on a hundred dollar

of their assessed evaluation, a twenty-f ive cent tax; we

a ain told them that there w' ould be no tuition. We, again,C

told the people in the Olney Junior College that there would

be no tuition. Now, according to our assessed evaluation,

we are putting in more money into the Junior College' District than any other Junior college District in the Statei

.xj M ,i of Illinois because the average is about seventeen cents and

not twenty-five. And, what I'd like to do, I'd still like

to keep my word to the people there, that the Olney Junior

College is not a tuition College.. That was the general con-

cept of the Junior Colleges in the beginning. I don't under

stand now how some of you men are saying, 'let's make it a

tuition. Let's make it a tuition'. I started out that it

was not to be a tuition .at the Junior Colleges and I'm stayi g

Uàat way. I'd appreciate your support.''

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155.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall Amendment

No. to House Bill 4449, be adopted?g. A11 those in favo

signify by voting 'aye' the oppoaed by voting 'no'. Have#

all voted who wished? The gentleman f<om Lawrence, Repre-

sentative R. D. Cunninghmn.''

R. Cunningham: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. in

a misguided sense of economy, you are strangling educational

opportunity for the youth in our Area. The Junior College

involed has a particular problem in that we have wide spaces.

The people. that go to these Colliges, have to.. have to

commute great distances in comparison with the rest of'the

State. We have to have some incentive to bring those young

people to Eastern Illinois College. Ande the incentive is

the absence of tuition. The rest of the State, in their

affluence for which we rejoice, should not try to force. upon

us the same burden of tuition. They should take into actoun

the fact that we do have transportation problems. If you're

voting Tred', we ask you to' re-examine your position and tur

your switch over to 'green'. We would say to those people,

who are fearful that some money would be taken from their

District, khat their fears are unfounded. We can qualify to

get that money by levying a tuition that would destroy the

schools. So, you're not protecting your College. All you'r

doing is forcing upon o'ur College a condition that fine un-

bearable. Re-examine. Vote 'greep'.''

Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''Have all voted who wished? Take the

record. On this question, there are 'Ayes' 62 'Nays'#

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156.

and the gentleman's motion to adopi 'Amendment No. toucuse Bill 4449. fails. Are there further'Amendments?''

J. o'Brien: ''Amendment No. 4, Hanahan, amends House Bill 4449

on Page 6 by inserting immediately below Line 14 the follow

ing: 'Section 8. Any expenditures under this Act must be

spent in compliance with the prevailing wage rates as establ'sha

b ' ublic policy'; and in Line 15 by ddleting the Number 8.y P

and inserting in lieu thereof the 'Number 9....

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from McHenry, Repre-

sentative Hanahan.''

T. J. kanahan: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, this w$ ' ,

Amendment to House Bill 4449 would once again reaffirm the

policy of prevailing wage being paid by expenditures of Sta

funds in local communities. Especially in this Bille House

Bill 4449, it's important to adopt this Amendment because

in many instances, there has .been rulings arbitrarily made .

by local Junior College Boards, that they did not have to

live up-to.prevailing wage and prevailing rate type of

policies. This Amendment to the lppropriation Bill will

instill a policy within the Junior College Appropriation

explnditures, a policy of paying prevailing wage which this

House and this Gener'al,Assembly has adopted many many times

before. And, I urge the adoption of this Amendment-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-

man has offered to mcve the adoption of Amendment No. 4, to

House Bill 44z;9. Al1 those in favor signify by saying 'aye'/the opposed and the Amendment is adopted. Are there

' *x.- .

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' - i. .. .e . .157.

. further hmendmentsa''

T. O'-Rrl/n: ''Amendment No. 5, R. A. Walsh, amends House Bill; R . . ''

4449 on Page 3 by inserting between Line 34 and 35 the follo -

lrlak fate grants shall be provided only for courses

Ehat are normally part of baccalaureate-oriented programs,

. occupational programs or general studies instructional pro-

grams approved by the State Junior College Board that apply

'. an asss.ciate degree or certificate'-''

Rrp. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tl ve Walsb.''

R. A. Walsh: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House, -

ah.. as the Membership may recall, last year we had an Amend$

ment to the Junior College ork as it is now known, Junior. College Apprcpriation Bill which was adopted through the

help... ah.. with the help of Representative Murphy and

others which would prohibit the distribution of State

Apportionment money ah.. to schools for courses which were

the area of hobby, J eisure time or recreational activitie .

That Amendment was adopted and ah.. is now the Law. It pro-

hibits the distribution of State Apportionment Funds for

courses such as cake decoration. floral arrangement, knittin ,

camping, self -hypnosis bridge, horse training and similarr

hobby, recreational and liesure time activites. Ah.. this

year, ah.. I have an Amendment which ah.. is basically in

.the wording of House Bill 4449. And: it's the language whic

is suggested by the State Junior College Board and which has

been endorsed by the Illinois Council of Public Community

r-- ''- V , ' '.$1 : Ak:' '' ->.* o E N E R A t A s s E M B L Y? '* '/1 'r k

'

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158.

College' Presidents. This Amendment, which I've jusi offered

and which the Clerk has read, would prohibit the disbursemen-

of flat rate grants for courses that are nct normally

baccalaureate-oriented or occupational programs or genera'l

studies instructional programs. Now, the State Junior Col-

lege Board and representatives of the ah.. various Districts

have assured me that this Amendment will achieve the same

purpose as the Amendment which we adopted last year and woul

prohibit the disbursement of State Fuhds for hobby, leisure

time or recreational activities. ' Ah . . Mr. Speaker, Ladies

and Gentlemen of the House, I urge the support of this

Amendment.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Franklin, Repre-

sentative Hart.''j; ' jtR. 0. Hart: ''AK.. would the ponsor of the Amendment yield?

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates that he wi11.''

Hart: ''Ah.. I'm not partieularly having a great feeling

about this Amendment one way or another. But, is this a wayae

that we can legislate ln this field? Ah.. ah.. you know,

the Illinois Constitution saya that ah.. Appropriation Bills

w41l be zf.mited to the subject of appropriations. And, Appro

priation Bills are not included in the revised Statutes,

you know. when they come out on your desk. So, the question

that I seriously ask you about this AmeM ment is. ah.. you

may be making a point with it, you may be ah.. really more

taan that, shouldn't you have a separate Bill which would be

come a part of the permanent Statutes ah.. to take care of

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159.

this?''R. A. Walsh: ''Wel1 ah.-, Representative Hart, first. in answer

to your question, yes, it is within our power to do this.

We did it last year with the Amendment to which I referred.

Ah.. secondly, there's no question but what we can, in our

Appropriation Bill, designate the manner or limit in some

way the manner in whieh the funds are to be used. Ah.. Repr -

sentative Hanahan has just had a series of Amendments adopte

which wculd do just that. So, I don't think there's any

question but what the Appropriation Bill can eontain direc-

tion ah.. to the Ageney indicating the manner in which the

funds are to be used.''

R. 0. Hart: ''Ah.. what are some of the eourses that ah/. Would

not be of the kind that could... flat grant money could be

used for?''

A. Walsh: ''Well examples of courses for whieh funds were#

' used in the past, they were credit equivalent courses ah..

referredeto in.. in the various ah . ah.. brochures, etcw!

that the ah.. the Colleges would indicate are: And, these

are taken from ah.. The Bill that was past last year ah..

cake Deeoration, Floral Arr'angemenk, Knitting, Camping,.

: . .

Self-Hypnosis, Bridgee Volley Ball for Couples, and other ' . '..

courses such as that.''

R. 0. Hart: ''But this would not, in any way, shape or form,

prohibit ah.. ah.. occu... vocational education typd of ah-.

Courses?'' ' '

R. A. Walsh: ''No, it does not. It only limits them when offer d

i .

Z c : . ' t'rp, a . . G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yk.t y:.. ,. . . ; f . . ) pv.ve oe 'uukao.. . r'li gc.. . . . .

N. ' . .N..9UF6.OC..FKeHFIKNTATIVt: .

160.

for ah.. happy, leisure time or recreational activities.''

R. 0. Hàrt: ''l see. Thank you.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is thëre further discussion? Do

you wish to close the debate, Repyesentative Walsh?''

R. A. Walsh: ''Jœ t to request a favorable Roll Call.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman has offered to move the .

adoption of Amehdment No. 5, to House Bill 4449. A1l those

in favor of the adoption s'ignify by voting 'aye', the oppose

by votinq 'no'. Do you wish a Roll Call, sir? All those

I in favor of the adoption signify by saying 'aye', the opposeI

'no', the Amendment is adopted. Are there. further Amendment ?

Third Reading. House Bill 4293...

J. O'Brien: ''House Bill 4293, a Bill for an Act to provide

for the ordinary and eontingent expenses of the Department

of Conservation. Second Reading of the Bill. Two Committee

Amendments. Amendment No. 1, amends House Bill 4293 on .page

1, Section 1, Line 12 by insorting... inserting, andsoforth.''

Rep. Arthur Au Telcser: ''The gentleman from Randolph. Repre-a..-'

sentative Springer.''

N. Springer: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, Committee Amendment No. l.has some inaccuracies in

the ah.. figures in the Section of the General Offices of

ah... House Bill 4293. Therefore, I would like to have leav

of the House to table Committee Amendment No. to House

Bill 4293..'

Rep. Arthur A'. Telcser: ''Representative Springer. the procedur

of the Speaker is usually to first '.ïdopt and then table the

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161.

Amendment. So, the gen tleman has offered to move the

adoptfon of Amendment No.. 1, to House Bill 4293. Al1 infavor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'no', the Amend-

ment is adopted. The gentleman nov moves that Amendment

No. 1, to House Bill 4293, be tabled. All in favor of the

gentleman'a motion tc table signify by saying 'aye','the

opposed 'no', the' Amendment is tabled. Are there further

Amendments?n

J. O'Brien: ''Committee Amendment No. 2, amends House Bill 4293

as amended, on Page 7, Line 8. by inserting 'land acquisitio ';

and on Page Line 26, by striking 'land acquisition'; and

on Page 8, Line l6, by striking 'land'; and on Page 8. Line

l7, by striking 'acquisition'; and on Page 8, Line 25.....''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The genileman from Randolph, Repre-

sentative springeru''

Springer: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, Ccmmittee Amendment No. 2, takes the ah.. term 'land> .

acquisition' out of various'parts of House Bill 4263...93.

I move the adoption of Amendment No. 2... Committee Amendmen

No. to House Bill 4293.', ' ''Is there any diseussion? The gentle-Rep. Arthur A. Telcser:

man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 2, to

House Bill 4293. All in favor of the adoption signify by

saying 'aye', the opposéd 'no' the Amendment is adopted.

Are there further Amendments?''

J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 3, Springer, amends House Bill 4293

on Page 1, Section 1, Line l2. by inserting '$1,252,300'....,

z Fr x''t . q 4,

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162.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Randolph: Repre-

sentative Springer.''

N. Springer: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House. Amendment No. corrects the inaccuracies ah.. of the

original Committee Amendment No. l that we tabled. Therefor g

I move the adoption of Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4293.''

Rep. ôrthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The gentle-

man has offered to move the adoption of Amendment No. 3,

to House Bill 4293. Do you seek recognition, Representative

Simmons?''

A. E. Simmons: ''Well I'm not sure but ah.. it seems funny. #

that ah.. No, I'quess# itss alright-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman has offered to move the

X option of Amendment No. 3, to House Bill 4293.* in favo

of the adoption signify by saying 'aye' the opposed 'no'

the Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments?

Third Reading. Ah.. House Bill 4680. We have to wait a

couple of moments to get ah.. House Bill 4680 down from the.M '

Clerk's Office. So, wedll just be at ease for a moment.Here we go1 On the order of Second Reading, House Bill 4680.''

J. O'Brien: ''House Bill 4680, a Bill for an Act to amend Sec-

tions of the 'Aevenue Act'. Second Reading of the Bill.

No Committee Amendments.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there Amendments from the floor?''

J. O'Brien: ''Amendment No. 1, McCormick'......'

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nRepresentative 'Schlickman, for what

purpose do you rise, sira''

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163.

E. F. Schlickman: ''A point of or... point of order, Mr.

Chairman.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''State' your.point-..''

E. F. Schlickman: .'l don't see this Bill on the Calendar. 1'

not aware that a supplemental Calendar has been distributed-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Schlickman, this Bill

had already been read a First Time. And, earlier today.

was sent to the order of Second Reading without reference

and we're now reading a Second Time.''

E. F. Schlickman: ''Can you have a First Reading and a Second

Reading on the same Legislative Day?'' v

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''NO.. It had been read a First Time

on a prior Legislative Day. 'In fact, it had been read last

week. Yes, today it was.... The gentleman from' Cook,

Representative shea, for what purpose do you rise, Sira''

G W shea: I'Mr. Speaker, thfs Bill is on the Calendar under

Speaker's Table. Is is not?''

Re#. Arthur A. Telcser: Yes, it has been read a First TimewA '

last week.''!

; G. W. Shea: ''Alright.. Now, this morning, we' suspended the

Rules with regards to this Bill to hxve it placed on the

Calendar on the order of Second Reading - Sec... or Second

Reading - Second Legislative Day.' So that, tomorrow when

it appears cn L.he Calendar, that will be the order of busine s

that it appears in. All we did today was waive the Rule wit:

regard... regarding two days on the Calendar on the order of

Second Reading.''

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l64

Rep. Arthu'r A . Telcser: ''l think. your point is well taken,

Representative shea and schlickman. And we'll ah...''

E. Schlickm/n: ''Mr. Speaker, if 1 may..... Mr. Speaker,

if I may...''

Rep. Arthur A . Telcser: ''Proceed, Sir.''

E. F. Schlickman: ''If they'd called this Bill, it would have

Deen the fïrst time in eight years, in my experience here

in the House, that a Bill had been called when it did not' A d I would like toappear on that order on the Calendar. n ,

suggeste Mr. Speaker, that there are other Bills that are on

the Calendar that are ready to be called and I'd appreciate

some attention being given to theme''

Hon. Robert Blair: ''House Bills Third Reading. 3761...'

J. O'Brien: ''House Bill 3761, a Bill for an Act to provide

the nomination eleetion of judges and repeal part of an Act

named herein. Third Reading of the Bill.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The ah.. gentleman from Cook, Mr.

Burditt ''v5-

G. M. Burditt: ''AN.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, House Bill 3761 is ah.. a Bill that merely provides

for the non-partisan election and ah.. of judges. The Bill

sets up a ah.. primary election in August. It's identical

to a Bill that Senator Partee has except that this Bill is

a non-partisan election. The elec... The primary would be

held in August of this year but in other years would be ah..

at the regular time of primary elections. The ah.. final

election would be in November just as ah.. ah.. as is the

.. 'k-a ' ' .. '' x. ''..t : sa.. r':'7'7> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yi * QJ' r> . ) J N.q '(o . .. > ) w'ra'rc oe lt-usNolsi . :.f . .z:: . .

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z6s.

regulaf election now. This is a ah.. Bill which has been

prepared by the Bar... Chicago Bar Association after very

careful consideration. It has very strong support fm m ah..

the editorial writers of several of the newspapers becaus'e

it does provide a means by which ah.. we can take a step

toward taking the judges out of politics. Ah.. it's a ah..

ah.. comprehensive Bill. It has been very carefully drafte

by experts. I'd be glad to answer any questions on it.

But ah.., I do solicit your support E6r this ah.. excellent' Bill ''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. The gentleman from Franklin,

Mr. Hart.''

R. 0. Hart: ''Will the Sponsor yield?''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''He indicates he will.''

R. 0. Hart: ''What is a non-partisan election?''

G. M. Burditt: ''We1l, that ah.. has been called to my

attention that the Constitutional Convention was selected in

a non-partisan election. And, that's ah.. That's the same

kind of a think that this would be.''

R. 0. Hart: ''Yeah.. Well. in my District, all non-partisan

elections ends up Democrats against Republicans. And ah...

I thinke this Bill should be defeated. It would cost a whol

lot of money in the State of Illinois to have a special

primary to elect judges. I think, the Bill has many deficie -

cies. a non-partisanship of which is the foremost. But,

don't believe, that it'a necessary ah.. with our State and

ah.. and.. and with our local government, I mean, in the

hz : 0r.... . . h*,44 e %- . . j 1. ; . . - G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ytp r . ,.N ! vs oe jsujsojsJ o t. ,x : sva'r . / HoU IE oe R EPR E/EENT A.T 1 V X9 .* .>*

166.

economic position that they're in, to ah.. go into a two

million dollars project for the election of a few judges

when we have a provision now.whici allows the Supreme Court

of Illinois to fill vacancies until ah.. ah.. the successors

are elected in a partisan elections which I favor. In the

Constitutional Convention Referendum, the people of the Stat

of Illinois rejected the idea of non-partisan elections' for judges. I think, in fact, that most people in the State

of Illinois wculd like for judges to run every time their

election is up, not ah.. on tenure but for revelection again t

opposition. I think, that ah.. the peo... that this Bill

does not... is not surported by the majority of the people.I don't believe. it's supported ah.. by any ah.. of 6h# lccal

governments which will have to provide the money to supply

the election officials. And, I believe, at this time, we

h ld defeat the Bill.''s ou

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The a h.. gentleman from ah.. ah.. Kane,

Mr. Schoeberlein.''

A. L. Schoeberlein: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentleme

of the House, ah.. how much.... May I ask the gentleman a

question? Just how much will this special election cost in

the State of Illinois?''

G. M. Burditt: ''Ah.. A1, the special election would be only

the August Election of this year. In all other years, after

this year, the primary will be at the ah.. same time as the

election of State Repres'entatives, the regular primary elec-

tion. And, te final election would be at the same time as

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167-

the regular November Election. So, there would be no added

costs ah.. except for the primary in the this year.''

A. L. Schoeberlein: ''How much will Yhe election cost this year.''

M. Burditk: ''Ah.. I've got the figures and I've just sent'

out for them. It's.. Tt would be somewhere in the neighbor

hood of ah.. a six or eight million dollars. Ttll have the

exact figure for you in just a minute.'''A. Iz. schoeberlein: ''I understand that it ' s a little more than

sthat .

Ah . . #tr . peaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, if I may, I've had judges talk to me on this. And,

they are not in favor of this special election. They'd rat r

wait two years. Now, I don't know who it is that wants this.

But ah.., I don't believe, that this should be rushed throu .

And, back home. I'm telling you, anybody who's going to vot

for this special election, is goinq to have it thrown at

them on election day regardless of what portion of the Dis-

trict they're from. Thank you.''

Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''The ah.. gentM man from ah.. ah.. Cook,

ah.. Mr. Burditt.''

G. M. Burditt: ''Mr. Speaker, I.. I now have the ah.. fiscal

i note which I requested on the Bill. Al. Ah.. and, this is

from Don Ed, a supervisor of the'lndex Division of theSeeretary of State's Office. Ah .. he eskimates that it wou d

be a million to a million and a half for the City of Chieag

and a total for the State of two and a half to three millio

dollars.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentlclan from Cook, Mr. Shea.''

... r ' ov ' <....,i' 9 ,

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168.

G. W. Shea: ''Ah.. would the Sponsor yield for a question?''

Hon. Robert Blair: ''He indicates he will.''

G. W. Shea: ''Ah.. George, as I read.this Bill, you.. you get

on in the primary by either two thousand votes or one per-

cent of the Governor vote in your particular District the

last time. Is that righta''

G. M. Burditt: ''That's right.. Yeahp.''

G. W. Shea: ''AN.. so that,zlike in Putnam County, where the vo e

for Governof was 2,000, you'd need twenty signatures to get

' on the ballot for judge?''

G. Burditt: ''Right..''

G. W. Shea: ''And then if there were three or four people on#

in the primary, you take the two highest and put them on the

November ballota''

G. M. Burditt: ''Right..''

G. W. Shea: nAnd then, if the two people, that got defeated,

wanted to run in November. they would just file nominating

papers for November again. Is that it?''y-H .

G. M. Burditt: ''Right..''

G. W. Shea: ''So that, we go through almost a useless thing

with the primary cause anybody that runs then can get back

on the ballot in November. Right?''

G. M. Burditt: ''Right..''

G. W. Shea: ''So that, we end up with... we could end up with

thirty-five or forty people on the ballot for each spot?''

G. M. Burditt: .'Well, Jerry, the best is o?f the enemy of the

good, as you know. And, the chances of what you're saying

! Z Y ?) z! r k :k.-) '-RN. , G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y: -' 'sot vmxxe os 'uul-olsf' k%'':! . . j ; r:. . . . s ojr auegsss-vwvjves: x, . aous* .. V .j '<... ... . .. .

IG 9 .

actuall'y occurring are infinitesimal. The fact is that ah..

in an extreme circumstance ah.. the way the Bill is drafted,

that's ah.. that's a remote possibility. But ah.., to go

through the expense of a primary and lose, and then, to re-

peat the action again for thirty-five candidates, ah.. I thi k,

ah.. answers the question itself. That simply isn't going

to happen.''

G. W. Shea: 1'Well, at the primary, you only get the people

that pull primary ballots voting. Rig' ht?''' G. M. Burditt: ''Right..''

G. W. shea: ''So that, if you pulled a Republican or a Democrat'c

ballot at the primary, ah.. those are the people that would

vote on this. Righta''

G. M. Burditt: ''Right..''

G. W. Shea: ''Then, at the General Election, we normally have

many, Many more people so a fella could probably think, 'Gee'

I didn't get beat too bad in the primary, so I want to run

again apd get on at the General Election'. Is that right?''

G. M. Burditt: ''Well ah.., Jerry, it's right except that, you

remember, this is a non-partisan primary so t hat there is no

I ah.. situation in which ahk. somebody might think, well, I..!E ' lot more Republican or a lot more Democratic! I

. . there s aiI votes around that I could get. And, since I'm a RepublicanII or since I'm a Democrat, I can pick up al1 those people whoIII didn't vote in the primary. Ah.. this is a non-partisanI

,1 ,! election. There s no party designation on the ballot. Ah..I .II this is ah.. ah.. ah.. typical non-partisan election of

I .*% ' ' 'N'tcm. GENERAL AssEMBuvti v.. <k .y . ja xqçu't. . ' ; 7 s'rl'rz oe IuulNols

4 4 2.n:.. .'' .. . Iqouve oe rzresrsshl'r-'rlvesh. z !. V '

170.

Judge's Bill ah.. which, as you know, ah.. the Bar Associa-

tion/ the Newspapers and a number of other specific Organi-

zations over the state have been.. been promoting to ah..

do the best job that we can to keqp the judges out of poli-

tics.n

G. W. shea: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, I remembér some time back we were told about a non-#

partisan election for some'thing called the Constitutional

Convention. And so# I would just like to remind the people

of that when theydre talking about a non-partisan election

in here-''

Res. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentlehan from Cook. Representa-

tive Hyde-f'

H. J. Hyde: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I'm very much in sympathy with

Representative Burditt's' ah.. Bill here. But, I think .he. . , . r

really ought to go farther. I thinke the new thrust is to

have guidelines on all of these primary elections so that

we have a percentage of eaéh ethnic group and ah.. women,

: who run on these ah.. primary races, because democracy isI ' ah-., we see, doesn't really end up in all groups being repr -

sented. The.. So, wepve got to,. I think, refine your Bill,

Representative Burditt to include ah.. every ethnic group#

ah.. in the exact percentage or as close as we can get to it

based on the last census and make sure that ah.. the members

of the opposite sex and ah.. also any.. any third sex that

might turn up, get ah.. cranked into this. Thank you.''

l '''The gentlemak from Sangamon Repre-Rep. Arthur A. Te eser: y

... ' s) 7.'Jutt T.'.zs G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y

J < 'ia;.st. . .. ) R s'ra-rk og Iuulaols%; . . .

> z N : +r. . p s s p s a ss sj v s v j u a s. . . H Q kl * EE o.. $. x!,: -. - -.- .

171.

sentative Londrigan.''

J- T. Lbndrigan: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

Housee I rise, too, to oppose this Bill. This is merely '

another version of the Chicago Bap Association's so-called...

so-called merit plan. We have consistently beaten the r

Bills. And, we should do so once again. Therets no such

thing as a non-/artisan election. Even if there were, theyhave proven undesirable. The people are no't in'favor of them.

This is an expensive Bill. The people, in voting on the

Constitution, told us how they desire to have their judicial

election. Letls pass the Bill in the same form that the

people have directed us and defeat this Bill once, and hope-

fully, for all.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Carrolly for what pur-

pose do you rise, Sir?''

H. W. Carroll: ''Mr. Speaker, a point of parliamentary inquiry.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''State your point, Sira''

H. W. Carrpll: ''l understood the Majority Leader to have aske

the sponsor to hold this Bill for purposes of an Amendment.

Has the Sponsor answered that he was going to hold the Bill

ah.. for an Amendment of any nature that the Majority Leader

had asked.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Burditt, ah.. did you

wish to respond to that question, Sir?''

G. M. Burditt: ''Yes, Mr. Speaker. I move the previous ques-

tion . ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: '''The gentlemah from Livingston, Repre-

z' mîv5.a+. GENERAL ASSEM BLY* G* rç 'i y...q k svxxk o v. j uu jyj o isw çztka , )* >x'.. . HIklIE oe RePRESeMTATIVCS

g *u .o.q % .e

172.

sentative Hunsicker.''

C. T. Hùnsicker: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, I'd just like to say this, that I have to be opposed

to this Legislation. I have Counties in my District that

have already had four elections this year and they're going

to have another one in November, and now, if we pile anothe

one on their baék. I said last week. we're going to have

to make the start down here if we want to freeze real estake

taxes at the local level. And, here's a shining example

of what we're doing.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Madison: Repre-

sentative Kennedy.''

J. Kennedy: ''Mr. Speaker. move the previous question. 1. e

listened to Lawyers a1l day long.''

''@he previous question has been movedtRep. Arthur A. Telcser:

All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the opposed 'lno'

the gentleman's motion prevails. The gentleman from Cook,

Represeptative Burditte to'close the debate.'''

G. M. Burditt: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, ah.. to ah.. persuade ah.. a group of politicians

as we all are to ah.. pass a Bill that ah.. would provide

for a non-partisan election of other politicians is ah.. a

little difficult. And, I can understand the feeling that ah..

many of you have. On./ On the other hand, we have had pro-

blems with our judiciary in this and other States throughout

the Country. And, the Federal System, as you know, is ah..'

h tisan seleetion ofis a system under which there is a on-par

e s ..;j * o M hl > CENERAL AsssMBuva .Jxs k:q z :, a s 'ikà ':

.. t svavk oe luulnodsî, , .+ .' Z '' *1

. HousE oF R/PRESE-TATIVE.S

173.

' intment systém. And ah.., thejudges. Now, that s an appo

gentleman, who spoke ah.,.. was correct. This is.. is a step

towards trying to improve the judiciary in our State by

taking the judges out of politics and giving them a chance

so that they can decide all of the cases simply on the bàsis

of merit without having to worry about the next election.

Ah.. I realize that many of you ah.. have personal friends

who are judges who have bèen elected just as I do by the

partisan system. I.. I've got several very close personal

friends who have been elected ah.. as judges on a partisan

ballot. But, nevertheless, Ilve spoken to them about it.

They certainly understand the merits of this Bill. And ah..

as a measure which ah.. in *he long run will take ah.. aJ

major step toward improving the caliber of the judiciary in

this State. I encoùrage your support for this Bill.

Thank you very much.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall House Bill

3761 pa6s?'. 'A1l those in'favor signify by voting 'aye'#

the opposed by voting 'nol. Have all voted who wished? Tak

the record. On this question. there... Maragos.. 'aye'.

Jaffeu. laye'. Ewe1l.. 'ayeê. I'm sorry. Maragos wishes

to be recorded as 'present'. Lindberg.. 'aye'. Berman..

'aye'. Ray Welsh.. 'no'. B. B. Wolfe.. 'aye'. On this

question. there are 45 ''Ayes' 91 'No's' l answering 'Prese t'# #

And, khis Bill having failed to receive the Constitutional

majority is hereby declared lost. House Bill 4302.''J. O'Brien: uHouse Bill'43O2, a Bill 'for an Act to amend the

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p*Qz ..:

174.

'Election Code'. Third Reading of the B'ill.''

Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Shea.'' '

G. 5'7. Shea: '.Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,

d House'ah. . as you know, we over-rode the... or we passe

Bill 3623 which was Representative Hartls Bill ahn to

veto the Governor notwithstanding allowing for the partisan

election of judges ah.. in the even numbered years so that

there are a number of vacancies that should be filled in

this selection but we were too late for the primary. House

Bill 4302 provides ah.. follows the Law in the Flinn Case

4-11 Illinois that states that 'the Managihg Ccmmittees

shall name the party nominees and put them... or..1 ,

name the party nominees and place their names on the ballot

for the November Election'. There is no special primary

involved here. Ah.. ivis will be a minimal cost to the.

taxpayers. And, I'd appreciate the support of the House-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Glass.''

B. M. Glass: ''Wil1 the gentleman yield for a question?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wi1l.''

B. M. Glass: ''Ah.. Representative Shea: ah.. before the new

constitution was enacted, ah.. what was the method of '.''

selecting candidates for judicial.office?''

G. W. Shei: ''By Party Convention.''

Glass: ''And, under your Bill ah.., I believe, they woul

be selected by a Managing CoMaitteè ?''

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. ,. .%T, --

175.

W. Shea: ''The.. The nominees to'fill primary vacancies

would be filled by the Managing Committee's. And, that was

set out in the Hart Bill and passed overwhelmingly by this

Hous e . ''

B. M. Glass: .'Well, who.. who would be members of the Nlaminat

ing Committee? Would they not, in fact, be the Committee-

mdn who ah.. constitute the Central C8mmittee in Cook Count ?''

.G. W. Shea: ''A.h.. in- in.. They would be the County Chair-

man of the respective Counties involved in the District

Division or Circuit frcm ah.. from where ah.. the vacancy

occurred.'' *

B. M. Glass: ''In other words, the selection would then contin e '

to be made by the Award Committeeman and the Township Com-

mitteeman actinY as a ah.. as you ah.. would call it hereah.. a Managing Committee-''

W. shea: ''AK.. Brad, on1y.... this would only happen in the .

event ah.. that for some reason the primary.. the parson'

nominated in the primary say withdrew cr for some reason.X '

there wouldn't be a primary where they couldn't get on.

And, think, it was set out pretty specifically, as I said

in the Flinn Case in 4-11 where the Supreme Court held in

that Case that, although the progressive party, the County

lerk in Cook County refused to 'ta%e the nominees and pla' ceC

their names on the ballot , the Supreme Court said that they

should have been on the ballot . But, Fe decided this case

after the primary so it's up to the Managing Committee to

name party's nominees for that election. So, what we'rei

I .. A F k x .s .s% . :; ., ./.1 SJ gV' ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ykstt

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l76 .

doing is providing a method of filling the vacancies in

nominatione so that there can be a contesied election in

November for the vacancies in the office... or in Judicial

Offices.''

B. M. Glass: ''Well, would... would that ah.. not also call

for the filling of ah.. ah.. vacancies ah.. that exist

rfght ncw?n

W. Shea: ''It would put peoples names on the ballots. Any

appointments of judges to actually fill the vacancy'of the

judge is done by the Supreme Court. And, this Bill would

no* change that in any manner or means.'' *

B. M. Glass: ''Well, 1et me ask you this. Have you seen the

Attorney General's opinion dated May 11th, 19724 wherein

he's asked whether ah.. the party convention or the party

caucus system may continue to be used under the new ah..

constitution for the filling. of vacancies? And ah.., is.. '

his ah.. opinion, a verY detaile'd opinion, is very specific

that tpat .is'not permitted by the new Constitution.''

G. W. Shea: ''Well I've read the Attorney General's opinion#

ah.. and I ah.. very much like some of the things in it.

I'might disagree with some of them. I think, that this Bil

E . / i ion Iis on foursquare wi h the Attorney General s op n .

think that what we are doing here .is making sure tha' t if# z

for any reason the vacancy occurs in the nomination of either

party, that there is a method of filling the vacancy in

nomination so that we can have a contested election in Nove -

ber Election.''. t '

a. 'v .. & ' f.' . .. x%x k)I''.*zLbjzl'rn>'q G E N E R A L A S S E M B t. Y

2 t-kT'. 'î-,,hj t svwv.s os tuulsols%..x ' .- '. ' .(d' r-. ' . -. Hotl S E Q F G E PH CS E PIT AT I V ES.tç. . %* . -.-. . .

. zpp.

B. M. Glass: ''Well then, what.. why.. why do you say that it

doesn't violate the ah.. the opinion? Isn't... Aren't..

Aren't the vacancies, in fact, being filled by a ah.. by

party conventionsa''

W. Shea: ''NO.. No.. We're.. Welre filling vacancies in

nomination not vacancies in office. And, I think, that's

the difference between what the Attorney General says and

what the impcrtW of this Bill is.''

B. M. Glass: ''And then, under.. And then, under your Bill:

the ah.. Supreme Court would.. would fill all the vacancies.''

G. w. shea: ''The'supreme court would continue to fill the

vacancy in office. The Party Managing Committae would fill

any vacancies in nomination. And so that, these people

that they filled the vacancies in nominations could run

in a contested election in November and fill the vacancies

in Office of Jud.... Judicial Officers so that the appointeaê

of the Supreme court would not be on for four.. fou'r years

but we-would have elected public officials in those offices.''

B. M. Glass: ''Welle I would like, if I may, just very briefly

I don't want to take up any more time than necessary, Mr.

Speaker, but I respectfully disagree with the Sponsor of

the Bill. And, I think, that thb Attorney General's opinio

is.. is clear, that ah.., under the new Constitution, ah..

this is not alproper method for nominating any candidates

for Judicial Gffice. The ah.. The Attorney General's

opinion i's lonu and precise and goes to the point that

j ah.., under no circumstances. may a party convention ah..

z 't e '' ! îw!t''7'7.> - ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yl E

-..i . '1-r'j: svwvs o.- 'uuls'ols'?' f. -,. n.-. .* V '% . , . M D tl S E 1 F R E P R E 5 E bI T A Y I V C S .1, %* z ----- . . --- . . --. .

178.

fill a'h.. vacancies. And, seems to me. that is precisel

what this Bill calls for. And. I urge a 'no' vote on.. on

what would be unconstitutional legislation.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Peoria, Repre-'

sentative Day.''

R. G. Day: ''Would the Sponsor yield for a question?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcse/: ''He indicates he wil1.''

. R. G. Day: ''Representative Shea, I1m.. I'm not quite clear

as to the makeup of the Managing Comlittee. Ah.. we have

ah.. five Counties in my Circuit. And, let': say, that

there was a vacancy in the nomination for Circuit Judge.

Ah.. how would that be filled?''

G. W. Shea: ''At the present .time, ycur... if there's a vacanc

in Peoria or the Circuit there for Circuit Judge, the

Managing Committee of the Republican Party wculd be the

five County Chairmen with the weighted vote. And, they,

with their weighted votey would name the party nominee,

I' the Republican Party ncminee to be placed on the ballot in! .

the November Election. Likewise, the five County Chairmen

of the Democratic Party with the weighted vote: would get

to name the Democratic nominee that would go on the ballot

so that the vacancy in nomination would be filled by the

Managing Committees of the respective partieE. Then, when

the ballot is printed in Novc ber, Mr. A. would be.the Re-

publican candidate; Mr. B. would be the Democratic candidat .

And, the people would select either A. or B. ah.. to fill

the unexpired term.''

. ..js,% .: ,.);; .? i-'zzn yà G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yj w ;.-<$ .'.i ?r &j ) s.r x v s o e. I u u I sl o 1 s. .( / *. ' Y '.e . sotl sc o p. Ig e: e- s sc N.r A'r I u E sN .jsvu' .:v z,'* . .

' : . l 7 9 .

.. ' R. G. Day: ''In other words, the.. the.. the County Chairman

for each political party would ah.. make the.. be the sole

and only person who would make the decision as to the nomin e

for his political party? ''

G. W. Shea : ''There is a method where an independent can peti-

ion and get on the ballot . And', that ' s under ah . . Articlet

X of the 'Election Code' ''' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Whiteside, Repre-

sentative Miller.''

K. W. Miller: ''Will the gentleman yield for three very short

questionsa''i Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He 'indicakes he will.''

K. W. Miller: ''Ah.. Number one......'t

W. shea: ''Kenney, you're too good pf a Lawyer to have shor

questions-''

K. W. Miller: ''Representative Shea. isn't there a Senate Bill,

that's over here now, that's somewhat similar to your pro-

posal?l

Shea: ''Senate Bill 1409 is in this Chamber that provide

for a primary to be held in August. And, I am thinking tha

if 4302 is Constitutional, which I think it is, it would

save the taxpayers about a million and a half to two millic

dollars.''

W. Miller: ''Alright.. The second question ..ah.. is, does

this apply to all judges from the Supreme couft down to

circuita''

G. W. Shea: ''This.. This method applies to Article VII,

..'* xs* J J e'z,. '% u zî Oj. . 1 *R7> $ j G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y; k m , ! .. .,1 çL$ lw ' .& r =* * s'r A. 'r e: o e' I u u I sl o 1 s

' (t;'. =F ' ' ! .* ' . Hokl sE o F R E PR Ess :4 T A 'r 1 v Es '

180.Chapter 62 of the 'Election Code'. And, it provides for

the method of filling the vacancy in nomination of any

Judicial Officer including the Supreme Court.''

K. W. Miller: ''Alright.. The third question is, if this Bill

is enacted and the Governor signs it. and say, it becomès

Law ah.. the 20th of this month. Does that... Does this

mean that then 'ah.. there will be, if there's vacancies

in any of those Judge's Offices: there would be nominating

conventions... I'm sorry, there would be the method which

you described ah.. precede this summer with the idea that

they would be on the ballot in November. Is that correct?''

G. W. Shea: ''Absolutely correct, Sir.''

W. Miller:' ''Alright.. Thank youo''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman frcm Hendersdn, Repre-

sentative Neff.'' '

C. E. Neff: ''Sir, I'd like to ask the Spnnsor a questiony.ple se.'

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he'll yield-''

C Neff: ''Ah.. Gerald, ah.. you speak of this a's a Managin

Committee. Now. I can't see any difference from this and

ah.. the regular ah.. convention type. You ah.. I believe

you ah.. answered here ahile back in a question that you

would use the weighted vote, the five County Chairmen would

meet ah.. that particular District. And ah.., I don't

ah.. understand where we get the Managing Committees. It

was used when this was ah.. appear to me to be the same

as the convention that has been ufed in .the pasto''

G. W . Shea: ''Ah.. Mr. Neff, the convèntion was the method of

.k N .9 N-z- l'l> êr G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y; $-. .> 'l.yN t j .s , uupaojs, v.u j STA.T, . (, g. ,=: . . -. . s o o s s o e n s e R s s s N v A. v 1 v p: s

181.

putting Somebodyîs name On the ballot. The Managing Commi -

tee would get to name the nominee only where for some reasc

the.. the.. there was a vacancy in the party's nominee fro

the primary. Ah.. if say, your... your party nominated

a man from Galesburg to ran in your County there for Circui

Judge and he proceeded to drop dead ah.. after the primary

but before the'General Election, ah.. under the present

Law, ah.. he.. his name êouldn't be on the ballot and there

would no.. be no way to fill that vacancy. And. whc, say.

the Democratic person would then run unopposed against a

vacancy. Ah.. under my Bill, this would allow the party

managing committees to fill vacancies in nomination ah..

in case they do occur. I think: it's one of those places

in the Law that we found avoi'd and I'm trying to correct ito''

E. Neff: ''Thank you.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman fm m Cook, Representa-

tive Capuzi.''

L. F. Capuzi: ''Mr. Speaker, I now move the previous question.''ve

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman has moved the previous

question. All those in favor signify by saying 'aye', the

opposed 'no' the gentleman's motion prevails. And, the

gentleman from cook, Representative Shea, to close the de-

bate.''

G..W. Shea: ''Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,

thank ycu very much for listening to this Bill. I'd apprec'-

ate the support of the House so that we may have partisan'

election of judges this Fall.''

x. . .(; wzL . ' G ENE RA L A ssEM nLv- 'k k

'

1 *1777-* ';àt : h;.& s svxvè os ,uu,-o,siI sq . t. -.. 2 ()r .. :.j z .:,J. . . t-e. . / HotlsE OF REPHCSE-TATIVES4, ssbgrtp

182.

ltep . Arthu r 'àkflcser : '' The que stion is , ' shall House Bill

' t' ' All those in f avor signif y b' y voting ' aye '> '. 4 3 CT 2 ppn.ea s . ,

the opposed by.voting 'no'. The gentleman from Cook, Repre

sentative simmons, to explain his vote-''

' A. E. simmons'r MAh.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. this.. this Bill, that

was amendek on May 5th. I believe. Now, I don't have a cop

of the Amendment. I wonder if the Sponsor of the Bill woul

just ah.. qzucxly indicate what the Amendment did to this

Bill?''

llep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''I'm sure, that in his explanation,

heï. he could ''do that, Representative Simmons.'' *

G. W. Shea: '$Ah.h Mr. ah.. Simmons, the Section of the Statut ,

thht I amended, talked about a primary held, think, in

April and.. and added a new paragraph. And, also ah..

changed the erroneous date of the primary to the present

ihe third Tuesday in March.nprimary date,

A . E . Simmons : 'lrphank ycu . ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Ccok, Representa-ltive Duff.''

B. B. Duff: ''Mr. Speaker, I rise to explain my vote primarily

because I was not able to ask the question that I would hav

. liked to have asked ah... about the Bill. And so. I suppose

I have to state, instead of questioning, that it appea s

to be ah.. th-'t this Bill is a cop-out on our responsibilit

to pass Legisiation ah.. in order to fill nominations and...

And, because dl that lack of action on the part of the

Lœ islature, c.'.c..then, defer to the political parties for

... swv ,$$ &. <f' .r . 8. ê cp.. : c- E N E R A k. A s s E M B L Y

, kr . x, :). ) y ,k q, f yj.,ê ç lk . . svxrc oe luutuols. ' t ? nY ' y'x . . 1: 0 tl S E 0 P R C P F? E s E hl T A T I V E S@ l z? N .%* A2,4. q ..

183.

process of no certainty. The Bill says, 'a vacancy in nom-

ination ah.. arises or occurs because of a failure of the

Statutes of this State to pkovide completely and timely for

the nominatlon of candidates who are otherwise to be nomina

ted pursuit to this article'. And. it seems to me, that al

that says is. if we, in the Legislature, don't have the

clurage, the guts, the intelligence of the fortitude to pas

a Bill to dp this, then let's cop-out and give them... and

give the job this summer, because we haven't done anythingyet, to the political parties with no certainties at all

that there will be any contest, ah.. with no certainties at v

all as to what kind of provisions will.be made including

particulars such as the fact that a vacancy arises if some-

body declines in' nomination. A nomination to what, when

no primary has been held? I vote 'no'.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The qentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Glassmn

B. M. Glass: ''Thank you. Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen

of the House, now, in explaining my vote, I wish you would

listen very carefully to the language of the Attorney

General's opinion. I think, if you do. you will recognize

that this Bill is clearly unconstitutional. Now. the

Attorney General was aksed this 'spqcific question. And,

I'm quoting. 'By what method, if any, may vacancies in nomi -

ation for the Office of Judge in any particular circuit or

district be filleda'. Now, that is the precise question tha

welre concerned with with this Bill, vacancies in nominatio

v', . '..! * ê , ,,'

#

'

tj % r' ' u'.s.jmV> V G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y%4% - ' *-. h 1 y N. ., 5: s a. x v s o g j u u j a o j sû' ç-.t . . .,. y.). .ï../ n sowsu o s n ce Kl s s s-'r A. 'r 1 v c s

' ' s4% ,'

J . dd .. ' .

184.

for the Office of Judge. And, the Attorney General's

. , ,'

us primaropinion. and again I m quoting, is that the wor .

Election, as used the Constitution, is not subject to any

definition that would include a procedure for filling nomin -

tions by party committee, particularly in view of the conve -

tion's obvious version to the naming of candidates by party

@ aétion'. It's a lengthy opinion. The' Attorney General8

' has taken great care to examine this question and comes up

on a foursquare that this.. this procedure is not within

the new Constitution. Enough Legislation, I submit, has

beèn declared upconstitutional without us submitting a.. *

and passing a clearly unconstitutional Bill. And, I would

urge some of those who are voting blgreen' to ah.. to vote

against this Bi11.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Peoria, Represent -

tive Day.'' . -

R. G. Day: ''Well, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House,xl rise' to explain my vote because, I think, that thi

Bill is bad so.. from a policy standpoint. Now, it looks

to me like, under this Bill, ah.. two people could decide'

. who the next Judge is going to be. That would be the incum

bent Judge. who.. w%o .is the old favorite, who has been in

office for a long time, ah.. decides ah.. at the last minut

that he's not going to be a candidate and he withdraws afte .

he's been nominated. Al1 he has to do .is make a deal with

. one persony and that's the County Chairman, and he's going

to ah.. to be able to name his successor in office. And, I

' 4 b ; v'rcxkc'j G E N E R A j. A s s E M B L Yj y..w j ,, jq. . p h t :e çxjl ' . F J ) sT 8.Tl C> F l LL 1 e4 o 1 5. j W CV ' *m. J . P1 D LI S C (:p F R E P H E 5 E N T A. T 1 V E S#z %* .''

J

think. this is bad. I.. I.. I 'cah't understand why we

. shouldn't go back to a party convention and ah.. allow the

precinct committeemen, who have been elected by the people

to represeni them in their party. to make this selection

ah.. just as we do now. It seems to me that that's a much

more democratic and a much safer way of proceedings. I

t think, this Bill is also unconstituti6nal from the stand-

' . point ah.w .the things that Representative Glass as said.

' And ah.., I don't believe, that we're going to solve this

problem in a fair way to the satisfaction of the people of

this State by passing this Bill.'' w

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Have a11 voted who wish? Take the

record. On this question, there are l10 'Ayes' 35 'Nays'

and this Bill having received the Constitutional majority

is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4650.''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4650, an Act to provide a supp e-

mental appropriation to the Department of Aeronautics and

to direct and transfer of money between funds in the State. A '

Treasury. Third Reading of the Bi1l.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from Sangamon Repre-b

. ' sentative Jones-'' '

J. D. Jones: ''Mr. Speakey, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,

this is the supplemental approp/iation for the Revolving

Fund... or ah .. for the transportation of.. of State .

Officials and..it has been approved by the Appropriations

. Committee. And, Ild appreciate your affirmative vote-'''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? The ques-

,... . ' . . ,. ,J' .. x.. ):? à 4''JI'.nG G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yî 41:% ..7.,- ù '

. y' vk . . g w sv A q' e: o e' I u u j *4 o 1 s. ..L.,.,4 =:' .. . .. ... Ho O s E Q F R E:P R ES E hIT' A T 1 V ES*t4 k. :*>'r..!!...!. : e . .. -. - . . -. .. -- .- ---.. -

. :86.

tion is. 'shall House Bill 4650 pass?l. A1l those in favo1: '

. signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have:

ionall voted who wished? Take'the record. On this quest ,!: there are l54 'Ayes' no 'Naysl.. Juckett.. 'ayel, and#

this Bill having received the constitutional majority is(

hereby declared passed. House Bill 4504.'.

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4504, an'Act to provide for th

. ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illinois State

Scholarship Commission. ' Third Reading of the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Lee, Representa-

tive Shapiro-n .

D. C. Shapiro: ''Ah.. Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen of .

the House, ah.. House Bill 4504 makes the appropriation'

llinoisfor the crdinary and contingent expenses of the I

State Scholarship Commission in the total amount of

$59 315 000. Just as a little interesting sideline, tiis# #

'

.

is an increase of approximately $14,000,000 over a year ago.' This year approximately 70,000 students will be granted '

ah.. scholarships under 'The Commission Act' out of a total

number of 110,000 applicants. And, I would urge a favora-'. . ble vote on this Bil1.''!

. #.Rep. Arthur A. Telscer.: ''Is there any discussion? The ques-

tion is, 'shall Hcuse Bill 4504 'passa'. All those in favor

signify by voting 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no'. Have#

a1l voted who.wished? Take the record. On this question,

ehere are 14a.'Aves' and no 'Nays' and this Bill having

. received the constitutional majority is hereby declared

j .' . v' % ' rjy, .1' .j e, .%,$ / '' A. -','p - - G E N E 11. A L A S S E M B L Y. kc. . 1 j .,.x. . sx wv e o e 1 u, u j a ., sa yc $k .. . ...j. -..Q J LT ' . ' . yj o w s s o y. s s e Ia s s E a v A v I v c sr.

' .%:..s '

187.

passed.. Hcise Bill 4682.''

Fredric B. ser tL:e: ''House Bill 4682, an Act tc provide for a bl

record of the rssults of elections relating to home ruley 'status and . 'aending certain Acts in connection tlzerewith .

Third Readigk'g of the Bill . ''

Rep. Arthur Az Telcser: nThe gentleman from Morgan, Representa-

tike Rose.''

T. C. Rose: '').ir. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,

this Bill pirovides that following a referenda of the part of

a 'MunicipalLty or a County to either opt in or opt out of

hom'e rule, .hat the appropriate election cfficial will noti *

fy the Secr-tary of Stake's Office as to the result cf that

electicn. S'he reason for this is very simple. It is so that..

Since home rule affects businesses and individuals through-

out the State, which may be doing business, for example, in

more than one community and mcre than one County, it provides'

a simple source of informaticn so that inteoested

people çan .determine finally whether or not a ah.. 'municipality

or county does have home rule.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? If not, the

question is, 'shall House Bill 4682 passa'. Al1 Ehose in

favor signify by' votlng. 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no..

Have al1 voted whc wished? Take the record. Phil Collins..

'aye'. O'Brien.. 'aye'. On this question, there are 147

'Ayesf, no 'Hays'. And, this Bi11 having received the Con-

stitutional majoriky is hereby declared passed. House Bill4610.''

.'' :. r -j ' * ''./? 3 .:'em.w',.:' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L. Y( Q '''. ')$ k ik: f. ;... - !.; svxvs orr Iuulsols

. ) # =.. - .. z - Qtz G E o F FI E e- E sc NT A T I v E S. .;;W Ys/!J. ë

'

5-.

. . - m. . vm . x, 188.

Freirie B. Sel Rec ''House Bill 4610,'an Act to amend Section

70) aud- 1501 of the 'Illinois Income Tax Act'. Third Readin.# ' . ' * ' e-of the I)i 11 . ''

Ren. JArthur A. Yelcser: ''The gentleman from Dupage, Representa& . # '

'tive Philip.''

J. Philip: ''Ah..-Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

Hou'se, House Bill 4610 amends the 'Illinois Inccme Tax Law '

.aystn straight,.rs .out of the inequities. K àether ycu live in

Illinois for-oue month or eleven months, of ccurse, you pay

for one full year's tax. What this does is two things. Fir t,:

'

. .

the.defines kesidency. Secondly, it allows for the proporti -ment share of inccme tax to be paid ah.. on It allows

it to be paid for..... If you live in the State for one

month, you could 'pay it for one month. If you live the

state two months, you can pay it for two months, etc. It's

endorsed by the Taxpayer's Federation and, of course, it's .

agreed on by tlne Department of Revenue.''

Rqp' . Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cock, Representa-

A '

tive Maragcs.''

S.'C. Maragos: ''Will the Sponsor yield to a question?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wil1.''

Maragos: ''Representative Philip, is there a fiscal note

on this as to what revenue loss Would be ah.. lost by the

state of Illiyeeis? ''

J.'.' Philip : ''No . 'tcllere is not . ''

c. Maragos: ''Jc there any experience factor by which we!:i rcould find a basisa''l .

i , '$.... . . - - * -.-.-. ... . J .#.-. '' y % ''*'

. ;6* ' 'r> < . C-& E N E. R A L A s s E M B L Yj/- .; -' ,. .. . ) zss.q :,; s..x .: o s , u c, , xo 1 sL.' .' '-.. 1.

. F;2 souse .e asessss-vwmlvss- b(

Nf?'. 2;, z'' '.

189.

J. Philip: ''I didn't understand the question.''

C Maragos: ''Is there any ah.. eicperience' factor basis of

d h onl/ live here part time of the yea ?''how meny resi ents a -J. Philip: nNo.''

S. C. Maragos: ''The third question is.....''

J. Philip' ''Ah.. what... what it does, it allows it to prorate

income tax. Tf you live here for six months, why should yo

have to pay a full year? would seem.....''

S. C. Maragos: ''What is ah... The point... The next questio

all' year, and you were an Iowa resident, but you earned you -

money in Illinois? Is there any provision that says that

this should not be... that this shöuld also be prorated no

matter where you earn your income? Does that Bill cover th t

Point?''

J. Philip: ''Not to my knowledge.'' '

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discus... The gent e-

man from Cook, Representative Berman.''

A. L. Berman: ''Would the Sponsor yield?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: OHe indicates he will.''

A. L. Berman: ''Ah.. Pate, would this Bill apply to a person

that lives ah.. during .ah.. six months of the year in Illi-

nois, has his Yusiness here and then, gces another six#

months down in.Florida ah.. and maintains ah.. residence in

Florida also? Would they only pay fifty percent of the in-

come tax in Illinoisz''

Philip: t'lf'y lived in Illinois for a half a year, they

. $ ' zr '..( ' +2..3*M %' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y2 e'.7- ' '': 1 % *' 1, 'kr' f ' 'v S 'T' X' Y' E7 O F ' L. t' 1 N D 1 S. '' #? =.' ' .%.> . H otl SE o F Fl EI3 n EsE N 'rA.T 1 &! E sqlu ex*.. gu.m .

190.

would pay half of a year's income tax in Illinois. When th

i residency in Illinois, become a.. a residenestablish the r

of this State, they would be taxed from then on.''

A. L. Berman: ''Well, my specific question refers pecple, many

of them have substantial incomes from Illinois businesses,

but they spend six months of the year also in Florida. Wha

af/ect would this Bill have cn them?''

Philip: ''If. they're residents. It only affects them if the 're

residents of Illinois.''

A. L. Berman: ''Well these people, let's say, that they vote#

herè, but they still spend six months of the year in Florida '

or ah.. in Palm Springs- - .''

Philip: ''If they're... theydre a Pesident of Illinois, the 'd

be taxed as a resident of Illinois.''

A. L. Berman: ''For the whole year?''

Philip : '' Right . ''

A. L. Berman: ''This Bill wouldn't affect them or give 'them ah..

a t>x cut?''

J. Philip: ''If.. If they're legal residents of Illinois, and

I don't care if they would spend eleven months in Florida,

if this is their legal residents, they would pay one full

YC Y X * ' '

L. Bermanr nThank you.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook Representa-#

tive R. Hoffman.''

R.' K. Hoffman: ''Thank #ou, Mr. Speaker and Members cf the House.

This Bill goes a long way in clarifying one of the inequiti s

z.z'' e . l . x. .h t.w>' G E x E R A t

. A s s E M B t. v( . ys...; j , x .1* et . . '- j ' s'ravc olr 'uu,-ols15,''-.2:. -., 'v-. . .* %'.êi ' , H C, kl s E C> F R K P R ï: s L P4 T A 'r I V C s4tlt z... qwxraz

that find witfr people that are transferring into the state

and ah.. leaving the State. This Bill would affect people

who have possibly transferred in from a different State ah..

because of j8b obligations where they are only here threemonths toward Ona end Of the year. The tax would be applica-

b1e for the thzee months they are here. It would also appl

to 'those that are transferred out where they are residents

and are qarning income from the State for possibly four mont s

and then transferred out. They would pay the applicable tax

for four months It's a good Bi11. And, I urge your sup-

port . '' *

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Carroll.''

H. W. Carroll: ''Would the Sponsor yield to a questiona''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wi11.''

H. W. Carroll: ''Pate, I understand in the Digest, it says that

it will be... 'it applies to tax years beginning after

December 31st, 1970'. Does that mean that they're going toA '

go back and apply these to '7l inccme taxesr'

J. Philip: ''That is absolutely correct.''

W Carroll: ''How are they going to 'go back on income taxesH . .

that have already been paid?''

Philip: ''Wellv I suppose, they Would have to issue thoseJ' .

people, ah.. t:zat have only been a resident for a part year,

a refund.a

H. W. Carroll: ''And you.... Have you....''. #

J. Philip: ''And, quite frankly, I certainly think that theyfre

.e' x: #' lj; K @lt t i-ewts'' . ..*'. E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yf'.' . j ' 'i' .'nt s . p **

. f (.- . k jL?'. , J. . j, .u s'J'7; C's 'J ;.')s1: ,.7 S.j v s s. , , , . . m.::1..----,' .. .

1

192.

'entitled to it.''

H. W. Carroll: ''Well, that was not the Law a't the time that

they had filed their returns or made their statements that.

tmenewere in the returns. Have you talked to the Depar

about thata''

J. Philip: ''Yes, I have and they have it worked out mechanically.''

H. w. 'carroll: ''And, they've worked out à retroactive effecti -

ness?''

Philip: ''Yes.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? The

gentleman wish to close the debate? Representative ah.. *

The gentleman from Lake, Representative Murphy.''

W. J. Murphy: ''Ah.. I'd like to ask Representative ah.. Phili

a question-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he'll yield.''

w. J. Murphy: ''Ah.. Pate, youlve got me confused on this now. -

Going back to Representative Be/man's question, if 1. own a

businesp ip this State, and I take my domicile to, weillsay, Florida, you mean, wouldn't have to pay income tax

on the business income that I was deriving from this State

because I was not a resident of this State?''

J. Philip: ''You know, I rpally canut answer tiat. I ah.. That..:j '! 1.. 1.. I would say Ehis, that ah.e.it would seem to me thatrI

if you were a legal resident of Illinois, and you movekz down

to Florida, that ah.. you euld have to pay income tax on tha

income you derived here in Illinois, if it was one month,

two months, three months.''

i=-

' 4. 3 i e-sns ks G E N E R A L A s s E M B L Yy,.

t. ) : y y . jm (1 e-.( 7 J sva'ra oe 1 ut-l Nols.t...j /' r, ... ., . uou ss o e' n e: e R ss y: N 'r A 'r I v e:sflyy z... jsl) .

19a.

w. a. Murphy: ''xo... vou.. you're noè answering it yet. secause,

I'm saying that I become a permanent resident of Florida,

but I still havp a business 'in the State of Illinois, yieldi g

an income, but I am no longer a resident of Tllinois, do I

have to pay tax on that incomea''

J. Philip: ''Gee'. I really don't know the answer to that..

thét ah.. question.''

W. J. Murphy: .nBecause that could cause a tremendous loss. If

Ifve got a business here, making a hundred thousand, you'd

better believe that I'm going to move across the line into

Wistonsin.'' *

J. Philip: ',1.. I Nould think you'd... there'd be some type

of ah.. taxation that you would be responsible for-''

J. Murphyz do'n't believe ah . . that we should vote on ah..

a Bill that youdre saying, think'. I mean, T think, we

should know.''

J. Philip: ''Well, I could certainly hold.. hold the Bill on

Third Ry.ading and.. and ah.. get that answered for ya.''

J. Murphy: '' Because right now, for instance, I have a busi ess

in Wisconsin, and I live in Illinois, have to pay on that

business in Wisconsin.''

J. Philip: ''You'd pay.ï. .Oh1 1.. l would thin'k that would

hold true in Illinois, but I'm not yure. What.. What..

What we're trying to do with this Bill, Murph, if a person

has only lived in Illinois for two months, it wouldn't seem

to me, that they ought to pay one year.. full year income

tax. ''

. ' ...r A>.'' ....'j.%% : ' z ... ..' f <o

...,,)''-D> rt G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YI y y

. i :.s. .ex y . ( . <' ) œ s 'r a 'r c o Ir I t. u 1 N o 1 sj . (. g .ur... .g sosj ss o s a s s g c sc sj x xv j u ssI x . .. . xuzl .S?; v d '* *.-'' . .- -.. . . . - ---. ' -.

194.

W. J. Murphy: Ifm in agreement With you if it's only...

if you're just talking about a man that cohes into Illinois

a nd géts a salary, he should'only pay for it on the length'

he's here. I agree with that portion of it.of time that

But, it's the other... ah.. if the other part of it is

true, I don't agree.''

J. Philip: .'Well ...n

Rep. rthur A. Telcser! '''Jhe gentleman from Knox. Representa-

tive McMaster.''

A. T. McMaster: ''Will the Sponsor yield to a question?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: '%Ie indicates he will.'' *

A. T. McMaster: ''Pate, I know what you're trying to get at in

this Bill. I'm a little bit concerned as ah.. Representa-

tive Murphy is. We have people, who ah.. live in Florida,:; say, for six months of the year, five months of the year.

lj but they do ah.. file a resid.ency or.. in Florida in order

to take advantage of the ah.. hdmestead exemption down there

which cqmes to some $5,000, I believe, for homestead. And,

I think, ah.. we need to be sure whether this person will be

ah.. ah.. exempted from paying Illinois Income Tax or not

under this Bill, Pate. I understand what you're after and,

I think, your thought is good. But, I do want to be sure

that we know what welre getting into.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? The

gentleman from McLean, Representative Hq11

H.. H. Ha1l: ''Ah.. would the Sponsor yield for a question? Ah..

Pate, your only ah.. concerned here with inccme earned out

,...' . s A i ''. .@ b t 'ev c E N E R A j

- A s s E M B t. Y) - z:f'lm -j k' -) - .. jç ; .. .. t j s'rxve o, luul-ols. . T * -.*. . . *'. .2k. t .-' uousc o!r RseRussel'rAvlve:sm't ., zxj,x f.%:j

195.

of the State and not State-earned income. Is that correct?''

J. Philip: nThat's correct.''

H. H. Ha11: nWell., I think, this is ah.. a good Bill. I don't...

I donft... I don't think, that those, who are ah.. question-

ing ah.. ah.. the possibility of a loophole, ah.. have

justificaticn for those fears. I think, this applies to

people who move into this State, and we're not questioning

the income they earn in this State ah.. during that time whe

they're here. We're... Webre questioning... We're going to

eliminate the tax on that portion of income that was earned' f the State prio.... in the same ygar prior to the time -out o

that they moved here. So, in that... ah.. in that... If

that's what your Bill does, and I ihink it is, ah.. then I

ah.. think it's a good Bill and I don't think... I dontt

think that anyone could evade the point ah.. ah.. evade ah..

income taxes by ah.. simply ah.. virtue of living part of '

the time out of State-''

Rep. Arthur A.. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Richard Walsh.''

A. Walsh: ''We11, Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemeqqcf the

House, just ah.. brieflv to respond some of the questionsthat have seen raisez. . ns has bden indscated, this silz

just perkains to part time residency to those eoming into thSkake during the taxable year, making a permanent domicile

Illincis or thcse leaving the State during the tavable

year, making their pèrmanent domicile some other State.

Ih does relate to someone who permanent domiciliary cf

...' lt A k , ., d %%% ; #ii h x'%.b. J-hrz'e G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y.; .,.j'... ! .)..y! sxxvu os , uujs .,s' j '. . (, / 1.' . ..w . Ho kl SE o F R EPR CSP: @IT AT 1 V ES

, .%%* .'

196.

Illiqois who may speqd six, eight/ ten. eleven monthsFlorida, Europe or aqywhere else qor does it pertain to some-

one who has a business in Ilkincis and they speqd much of

the month or the year somewhere else or the coqverse of

Representative Murphy's situation, who has a business in

Illinois, but resides in Wisconsin. Ah.. that situation' d b this Bill In Repres'entative Murphy'sis not covere y .

situation, the person would pay tax in rllinois cn his I1li-

nois-earned inccme from his Illinois business. It just per-

taiqs to the person, coming into the State, making himself

a pbrmanent domiciliary of Illinois or leaving the State, *

mbking himself a permaqeqt domiciliary of another State.

i I think, it's a good Bi11. It seems to me that we passed aE .I . .comparable Bill earlier in the Session. think, it deserves

the support of the House.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gantleman from McLean, Representa-'

tive Bradley.''

Bradlev: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, I was just going to echo those sentiments of Repre-

seatative Walsh because, I believe, the question that Repre-

sentative Murphy brings up, is not germane to this particula

Bill. It dcesn't ap/ly, at all. 'It's a gooé piece of Legis-

lation and I'm going to support it.'t

Rep. Arthur A* Telcser: nThe gentleman from Cook, Representa-* p

tive Duff.''

B. Duff: ''Ah.. would the gentleman yield to ope question,

please?''

.e qk. * t .y , .k: , j c .NN%lb ' --.> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ytvz4 ,y y. kê 0.1.).. .: svavc os Iuulnols1 . 7 . j.g r! . . w. .. H U kl 9 E o F G C P R CE 5 E > T A T l V E S'31'34 ! . 11 - ''

.!-----

yga.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will-''

B. B. Duff: ''AK.. Pate, what about the corporate person who

might move out of the State? Would it ah.. prorate the ah..

ah.. income for the year over the mcnths or would it ah..

allocate ah.. according to what formula?n

J. Philip: ''Ah.. Representative Duff, I.. I really donlt know.

As I saye what weire trying to do is make this income tax

as equitable'as possible. That, if a person lives in Illino's

for three months, that's al1 he should pay. Now, if he has

income from ancther State or something, I.. we're not trying

àffect that at a1l And I'm not suçe of what the Law *to . ,

is cn that point.''

B. B. Duff: ''AK.. ah.. thank you.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Peoria, Representa

tive Tuerk.''

F. J. Tuerk: ''Mr. Speaker, Members cf the House, think, what

the Sponsor is attempting to do here, as he says, make the

Income Tax Law equitable for all. Let me cite you an exampl

of a man, who moved into Illinois, he was transferred from

Ohio to Pecria. He came to Peoria, December 15, 1971. Unde

the way the Income Tax Law was being administered he was#

liable for income for' the whole yèar in the State of Illinoi .

. And, this is certainly inequitable a%.. and this Bill speaks

to that prcblem most specifically. And, I would urge passag

of the Bill.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ' ''The gentleman frcm Bureau, Representa

tive Barry-''

. -' . - . t''- ' . 'z,.. :q %%c , ;)@p.?.j.%;?>% G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Yi' L- c t ')'..x t u: .e. , uu, .., s. o ' . . svav..: ,?. .r:; .?.* % ' . . H 0 tl S E 0 F R E P R E S E M T A T 1 V E S

198.

T. Barry: HMr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,

ah.. I don't believe we have any problem here. I don't thin ,

there's any loophole because' it's my recollection of the 111*-

nois Income Tax Law that firstly. it's charged against resi-

dents of Illinois earning monies in Illinois. And secondly,

it's charged against earnings in Illinois even by non-

residents with reciprocal credits to States that have income

tax. So, therefore, I see no opportunity for a loophole.

And, I think, it's a darn good Bill and we ought to vote

for it without wasting any more time.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nIs there further discussion? If not, v

t he gentleman from Dupage, Representative Philip, to close

the debate-''

Philip: ''Yes, Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, as you know, this has been one of the great inequitie

of our new State Income Tax. And what it does. it does

two things. It defines residency and allows the proration

of state Income Tax from the time you become a resident. An ,A '

I move your favorable vote.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The question is, 'shall House Bill

4610 pass?'. A1l those in favor sig'nify by voting 'aye',

the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Tak

the record. Ccnolly.. 'aye'. Ddff.. 'aye'. Collins.. 'aye'.

And, on this question. there are 'Ayes' 'Nay' and#

this Bill having the Constitutional majority is hereby de-clared passed. House Biil 4129..'

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4129, a Bill for an Act bo make

, , . . . .. a k,' ,;.v' o %

'

.:' . j ',w %o ? . ,'='> cx G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y; k . ? 1 :.x,. i.àj. 41 ' . . ) * ) ST A T E o F I L L 1 N D I S. % ( . / =*. . ' . j o up s c o g. a c e n s s c hl 'r A 'r 1 v c sel . Hft s ! . !*:;''': !...-.

199.

an appropriation for the expenses of the Pollution Control

Board. Third Reading of the Bi11.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The ge' ntleman from Cook , Representa-

tive Burditt-''

G. M. Burditt: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

t he House, this is the regular appropriation for the Pollu-

ti6n Control Board for the next ah.. flscal year. The total

amount of the appropriation is $952.300. The Bill was very

carefully considered ah.. by the Appropriations Ccmmittee,

as you al1 know. And. the various amounts fcr the ah.. dif-

ferent ah.. breakdown items in the budget ah.. were carefull

changed and reviewed after ah.. consideration by the Commit-

tee. Ah.. as you all know, the Pollution Control Board is

the Agency within' the St:te Government which sets the rules

and regulations under which cur environment is controlled.

And second, they're the ones Xhat sit as the judges in the '

rule-making cases. The.. In thek. In the ah.. ah.. .judicial

cases. wThey dc not serve as the inspector or as the enforci g...

enforcing Agency. That's the Environmental Protection Agenc .

Nowy you will recall, that on Second Reading, a number of

questions were asked particularly, about such things as#

Court Reporters. Ah'.. I have personally spoien to ah.. the

Department of Personnel to Bill Bcise. I have an extensive#

letter from him on his suggestions for how ah.. they could

pcssibly help in this matter. I have spoken a number of

kimes to ah.. Chairman David Curry, the Chairman of the

Board. He has a number of suggestions. He, in turn, as

.v ' :% ' !! e .'s 8 t k c E x s R A t, A s s E M B t. v'''iv.j .t e;:4. . g. f' Ju k : ! . $ l''''j s v A. 'r s o e I u u I sl o 1 s

. 't.t.z,r7'..- . sow su o g. a sen csu 1.1 v l.r 1 v c sI , .s*n ad .I ''''''.

spoken to Judge Gulley as Jerrv shea suggested. He's talke

to Mr. Hartnik, who ah.. was interested but did not bid and

ah.. al1 things considered, I'm pèrsonally satisfied thate

while the work that the Board did with Court Reporters in

the past has not been to the very beat ah.. ah.. in the ver

best handling. It will be in the future. And, I therefore,

solicit your support for ah... House Bill 14.. 4129.''

' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: HThe gentleman'from Cook, Representa-

tive Simmons.'''

A. E. Simmons: ''Ah.. would the Sponsor yield to.a question?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wil1.''

A. E. Simmons: ''Was there an Amendment No. 2 to this Bill?

And, so, when was it acqopted?''

G. M. Burditt: ''AK.. Amendment No. 2 was adopted today. The

Bill had been on Second Reading ah.. previous day. And, it

was ah'.. it went back to Second Reading today for the pur-

poses of an Amendment-''

A. E. Simmpns: ''What.. What does it do?''i!

G. M. Burditt: ''Ah.. The ah.. Amendment No. adds $25,000 to! the Court Reporting Costs. The reason is. is that the Senat

Amendment... The Senate, just today, ah.. took $25,000 off

of the Deficiency Appropriation for Court Reporting Costs

because they've been taking so long over there to get the

Deficiency Appropriation through, that the Pollution Control

Board is not going to be able to spend that $25,000 for hear

ings during the current 'fiscal year. Therefore, they're

going to have to have more hearings next fiscal year. And,

$ 'nuk' G EN ER A L AssE M BLYva jê qt r .J7'&$; svavu o, Iuulsolstb , : .

* '%.%A 7 *. sou ss o F a cea csc -'r A.T 1 v E s .@! @x*..'42 .qg, e

201.

the $25 01.% ah.. was added into thi's Bill so they can have

x. thz;s zhearillt'irl next year . ''.' r. -=

A. E. Simmons: ''Thank you-''

Rez. Arthur A, Telcser: ''The gentleman from Macon, Representa-.. :

-tive Borck.'ars . ''

W. Borchers: ''Mr. Speaker and Fellow Members of the House,

well realize that this is going to pasi. I well realize

that itks nsy. obligation, in.. like the rest of us, to try

to control/the pollution of our rivers, our air, and the noi e,

etcw wilchsn reason. I'm going to vote 'no' not because 1,#

not' in fu.L2 agreement with what they're doing. but to try '

to show them that their aspects of the way they handle thei

jobs: ah.. that ah.. leave a good deal of question and doubas to their reasonableneys, their attitudes towards the

people of this State. Ah.. at the present time, yese

leaves us..., as Representative Blades says, leaves a lot

to be desired. I want to call àttention to them and to you

that thqy qre arrogant. They don't answer our industry on

municipalikies ah.. quickly, sometimes, not at all. They do

not give, at the present time, equal judgement. I know ofa case in Decatur of ah.. a gentleman by the name of Rhoades.

who is a14ou, I've mehtioned this 'before, who ah.. ah.. was

fined $1,509- He was filling his own land and using no

garbage, ffzlltng his own land for the best interest of our

'' community 5'.q the future. This didn't mqtter to them at all.

They're mostly from Chicago, five.. four out of five, from

Chicago whc make a11 of the decisions. The same time, and

rq'C'=t>' ' ..

' - . '. j G E N E It A L A S S E M B L Yx 2 . : . . h ,ïç 11 GTATE OF ILLINOIS.. .. '..* ,. ' ' .'. .. . y *1 D kl S E o F R (: P R E S E hl T' A T l V E S*td LI' z'

Mrs. Day of Fairfield, was eharged... was fined $150. for

the identical offense except with one exception, she was

taking garbage. Our Kustada Comp'any has been refused per-

mission to fill with broken rock. brick, etc.: a gully that

they want to recover for the future use of their plant unless

they cover it with six inches of dirt. Tell me why,a rule

must be that you've got to cover a piece of concrete flagra

with six inches of dirt every night? Right ncw. they're

giving away new rules for landfills for example. One of#

these rules shows the lcgic and the realizm of which these

gentleman operate. The rule says, I should have brought it

and quoted verbatim . But, the rule says that any refuge

must be com... composed into a two foot layer. I ask ybu,

how in the heck can you compos'e a four foot refrigerator

into a two foot layer and bury it? You can't do it. Now,' l f the new rules that is supposedlythat is an actual ru e o

going into effect July the 1st. They're putting: as many

of the bureaucrats of this Country have been doing in our

Federal and our State Government, they're putting an intol...

intolerable burden upcn the ordinary citizen in relation to

the rules and regulations,' the repcrts they have to make.

For Gample, this new rule that goes into effect that says

that every.. ev/ry ah.. truck that comes in to a landfkll

has to be weighed. Who cares how much ah.. weight goes int

a landfill that is going to be buried? And, hcw important

is this to be discussed 'ah.. twenty or thirty years? An #

who's going to dig into those records to see it ah.. what i

'-''-'''''-''''''-'''-''-''W'''''-''SVVX % ' 1 6 V ' 'f 4.'3,..$-4w- G E N E R A t, A S S E 51 B L Y.2 k . .. 't .oh (tf t ' . j sm a're: o s I uu 1 N oIs* $- / n'*. ' 'e . sow sc o e' R ee s ssc ej v A.x I v e! s# ....- x*

203.

may be? It just Lh.. It's just ridiculous some of the thingthat they do. Now, I'm noE attaeking the ideas they''re doin .

I'm merely pointing out, here and now, that a lot of these

gentleman are unreasonable in their rules. the regulations

and the burden they're putting on the people. ' Let alone,

for the last example of idiocy, frankly, of the burning of

leaves in small towns and the denial of a permit. Just last

week: Springfield was denied the right to burn leaves. I

guess... Alright.. I guess my tipe is about up. Is that

correct?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''It's rapidly approaching, Sir.''

W. Borchers: ''So I merely want to point out to you, some of

us ought to vote Ino' to let them know that welre keeping

an eye on them to be more realistic aand more reascnable in

what theylre dcing cause they.. I know of two factories,

that have been run out of Illinois, by this Environmental

Protection Agencyo''ARep. Arthu: A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Does

the gentleman from Cook, Representative Burditt, wish to

close the debate? The question is. 'shall House Bill 4129

pass?'. A11 those in favor signify by voting 'aye' the

opposed by voting 'no'. Have a11... The gentleman from

Christian, Representative Tipsword.''

Tipsword: ''Mr. Speaker, I'd merely like to explain my '

'vote. think, you notice that I'm voting 'greent and I'm

.voting for this appropriation. have previously criticize

this Board in a ah.. in some ah.. degree that Representativ

' q&. K A '

:j+ .j) 'uà%. o -mc> G E N E R A L A S S E V B L Y( 4 . : zr ...q '.kk' . J lv#.'re oe I uu,e4o,s

> .

204.

Borchers has.. has explained some of the problems that I ha e

had with the Board. I do not want to kill the Board off.

I think, it has a valuable function to perform. And. I hope,

that the criticism, that has been leveled on the floor of

this House and been made known to it, that it will take to

heart and realize that this is a one year appropriation.

And, at least, some of us will be back here next year to see' that they... whether or not they have towed the mark and

have.. have become an Agency that really performs the functi ns

that we intended in a practical and.. and sane way ah.. at

t he time that we passed the Legislaticn which created them.

There's much that they need tc do and much that they must

A d we only hope that this year they will do ii in ado. n ,much more' ah.. meaningful a much lesp arrogant and a much

more practical fashion so that we can accomplish what we

intende'd in passing the Legislation and they can be a more

meaningful Board to the people of the State of Illinois.''

Rep. Arthur. A. Telcser: ''Have al1 voted who wished? Take the

record. On this question, there are l54 'Ayes', 4 'Nays'

and this Bill having received the Constitutional majorityis hereby declared passedv' House Bill 4131. Representative

Borchers, for what purpose do yo< rise, Sir?''

W. Borchers: ''Vote.. And, I wasn't permitted to do it.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''We1l I'm sorry, Sir.''#

W. Borchers: HI wanted to explain my vote and I wasnlt pe rmitt d

to do it. Alright.. T''l1 get it over with right quick. I

was going to merely ask a few of you gentlemen, with a few

. . .. A ;, I.. ..;.. g

'

. xtv .v 't' s i

, k ; # 7 t G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yt @ . , h : l2 k 1 't .) sv ..vs o e 1 u.., 'q o ls I. 1t.t,2 .Y.''' ' . socj s (u o s s se p s sc el v A. 'r I v cs .$ ,' .u, 9 & * t-.*

205.

brave hearts, not to defeat this Bill. but let them keep an...

but 1et them know that we're keeping an eye on them. We .'

should have had a few more 'red' lights up there just forthe good of the State and the people.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''House.... Record Representative

Simmons as voting 'no'. You got a vcte, Webber. Hcuse Bill

4131 . ''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4131, an Act to provide for the

ordin#ry and contingent expenses of the Institute for

Environmental Quality. Third Readlng of the Bil1.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Burditt.''

G. M. Burditt: ''AK.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House: this.. this is the ah.. annual appropriation for

the Institute for Environmental Quality. Ah.. you'll recall

that this is the third Agency that operates in this field of

Pollution Control. The Institute for Environmental Quality

if the research and development arm of the ah.. three

Agencies under the direction of Mike Schneider. This man ha

been doing an excellent job for the last year. Ah.. as

originally introduced, the appropriation was two million

dollars, one million from the General Revenue Fund and one

million from the ah. Public Utilities Fund. Ah.. this Bil

was also very carefully considered ah.. by the ah... Committe

ah.. and ah.. at the present time, the.. the final figure

on the Bill is a milliony.ah.. 552,100. And, I'd appreciate

your support for the Bill.''

,.- -. .. y :, a jw .

.eLh%%t ' 1 Q ' .' R' <?J ,'D s G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y1 % r' 1 2p*

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1'' q

206.

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any diseussion? The ques-

tion ise 'shall House Bill 4131 pass?'. All those in favcr

signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'nol. The

gentleman from Macon, Representative Borchers.'' '

W. Borchers: ''Tn explaining my vote, I want to point out that

this is a group that are making the new rules where you have

to bury, any material in a landfill, in a two fcot layer.

' Now this is ah.., again, the height of intelligence and

reason. And, again, I would like to âsk, how you can put

a two... a four foot or six foot refrigerator in a two foot

area and bury it?'' .

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

' tive Lechowicz, to explain his vcte.n . '

T. S. Lechowicz: ''In respnnse to the previous speaker, this

Agency can not make any rules. They don't have any powers.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Have al1 voted who wished? Take the'

record. On this question, there are l53 'Ayes' l 'Nay'e

and this-.Bill having reeeived the Constitutional majority ' -

.

is hereby declared passed. House Bill 4139.''

Fredric B. Selcker ''House Bill 4139, an Act to provide for the

. ordinary and contingent expenses of the Environmental Pro-

tection Agency. ' Third Reading of the Bil1.'' .

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Burditt.'' ' .

G. M. Burditt: ''Mr. Speaker... Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentle

, men of the House,'the Environmental Protection Agency is the

Agency that does the inspecting and is the enforcing Agency

. '#.. &' 'x...' r .r 'P f !j ez'x? 2.):7.:7, c G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ytt- ) ! .y, t o j s1 .J. J syxvs o'r Iuulsî. , :. .j, w, .t ... . .'.% . H o tl % E o F R E P R E S E: N T A. T 1 V E S*?.. .%* zz

207.

that brings the cases ah.. before the Pollution Control Boa .

The Bill, as originally introduced, had an appropriation of

nine million, 733,800. Ah.. and, after careful review and

consideration by the Appropriations Colmnittee and coopera-

tion on b0th sides of the aisle, ah.. that amount ah.. was

reduced so that the total amount of.. from the General

Revenue Fund for ah.. this year is six million, 859,900 ah..' plus the amount that comes from the U.S. Public Health Fund.

So ah... I'd be glad to answer any questions about it. I'm

sure that you're well aware of the efficiencies that ah..

Bill Blazer, our former Member, has brought to this Agency.

Ah.. I'd appreciate ycur support for this Bi1l.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Palmèr.''

R. J. Palmer: ''Ah.. If ah.. Representati ve Burditt will answer

a question or two?''

. Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will.''

R. J. Palmer: ''George. what about the amount of money that

they have for surveillance? Ah.. how many people or ah..

how many inspectors do you have?''

G. M. Burditt: don't know the exact number of inspectors.

And, of course, it's increasing Secause the Agency is just

getting under way. I.. I do know that it's broken down geo-

graphically so that ah.. the inspectors cover diffqrent

Areas of both the State and difference Areas terms ah..

of the kinds of pollutio'ns that are controlled. The Bi11. .

The Bill ah.. covers air and water pollution which are the

.. ' k. s . -'' -'.,''.ki% ' $1 ' N,' t ez/ - ,.: . g U'7> ,> G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YU<'t: ' I..).*.$. : s v. xv e o s , u u. j s o , sx î.u/ ,. .4. .j z .k. . .é. . z H otl t; f: 0 F F# E P 1T E S E hl T A. T 1 M E S*f, .s%..

208..

u uoysetwo main ones. But, it also covers solid waves an

and radiation. Although, radiation is under question because

of a Federal ruling-''

R. J. Palmer: ''We11 then, you would not know whether or not

they have more inspectors this ah.., saye for this fiscal

ah.. or are appropriating more for ah... inspectors this

fiscal year than the... than qthe present... the next fiscal

year than the present year?''

G. M. Burditt: ''There will be... There... This does contempla e

more inspectors than last yeare Romie. But, I'm sorry, I

can't tell you exactly how many more. I'd be glad to get

you that answer and g5 ve it to you after the vote is taken.''

R. Palmer: ''Well, would say this, vote Yor

the Bill.' But, one of the problems, apparentlye that they

have here, is a lack of surveillance over, and they probabl

the lo'ck .. the like of... the lack of quality of those peopl

who do inspect ah.. certain Areas. Ah.. this is certainly

true ipxthe l'andfill Area.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from 'Macon, Representa

tive Borchers.n

W. Borchers: ''Mr. Speaker, in relation to the lack of quality

and ah.. of inspectors. ah.. 1970 in December.. ah.. in Dece -

ber, was called by a landfill in my Area ah.. with a com-

plaint. I found that the same complaint was made at the

Champaign City Landfill ah.. by the operators at the Chavpai n

City Landfill. This complilint was simple. The inspector:

a gentleman by the name of Larimore represented the Environ-

v' t .: ( :-,m 'e ' c E N E R A j. A s s E M B L Yr tT' ' . j w jl f- k.c .. J svaxs os luul-ols' J F -T*.t .'.' .* N'-' , z Hotlï;c OF RCPRESEHTATIVES'' * ... **$''

acv.

mental 'Agency came into to inspect. It was fourteen degrees

below zero at b0th of these places. The men operating were. found to be in their ah.. shelter'by the stove. This Lari-

more informed these gentlemen that they were supposed to be

on their bulldozers no matter how cold it was, operating and

waiting for someone to come in with a load to be deposited..

, IhSo ah..# I couldn't believe that any one man ah .. would ah.. :'

:be so ah.. hard-hearted, frankly, representing a State Agenc

that they'd tell another. .. other men'that they had to be on

fourteen degrees below zero on a Funning bulldozer. So, I

checked it out with Mr. Clarke of the Environmental Protecti n 'tAgency. He confirmed the story. He said; 'yes; that'strue. We don't care how cold it is twenty degrees belöw. #

1zero, they gct to be on the 'bulldozer'. I say, this is very

poor judgement and poor exercise of leadership on the part o

people under that ah.. that Department. The Mayor of Collin -I

ville, just last November, had a young man come into his

of f ice . The young man had pictures of twenty- three homes> ,

and people. They were burning leaves. They rep... His was

a representative, this young man, for the Environmental

Protection Agency, one of their inspectors. He said '1 have#

. twenty-three citations for you to .ah.. process in Collins- '

ville, Illinois. I want you to take action'. And, the May

said, 'What.. What are they?'. He said, 'We1l, I've gone

around and taken the pictures of these people breaking the'

Law. we expect you to do. something about it'. The Mayor

Kas horrified. He took cne look at the pietures. He said,

.1 7 - .*./'..?...I7t> ' q G E N E It A la A S S E M B L Yl <.t.- i: , '.vv. :

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@ .. %*td !.a. . !. .

210.

,1:11 do something about it, if you give them to me'. He

took 'the pictures and.. and the citations. And, in front of

the representative of the Environmental Protection Agency.

he threw them on the floor of the... of the City Hall. Nowy

I think, this is another example of very poor judgement bn

the part of the leadership of the Environmental Protection

Agency. So, I'm going to vote a symbolic 'no' although#

we need some of the things they do.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: NThe gentleman from Cook Representa-#

tive Harold Washington.''

H. Washington: ''AK.. Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I..

I have no quarrel with the ah.. Envircnmental Protection

Agency in terms of what they're supposed to be doing nor

with the Envircnmental Institùte ncr with the Polfution

Board. The thing that eoncerns me about all three of' these

entities is their hiring and promotion policies. I look. at

the Pollution Board and I see a total of twenty-four employe s,

. only two black females in relatively subservient positions.

Ah.. I look at the Envircnmental Institute, that have seven-

Eeen employees, and coincidently, none of them are black.

But, the horrifying figures in the.. the Environmental Pro-

tection Agency, where they have a total of four hundred and

twenty-six employees. Now. I have scme interesting figures

here from the Legislative Council. I think: in light of the

fact that the Governor has instituted what he calls a marvel

employment program, in light of thè fact that this Assembly

is dedicated to the proposition tha't there shall be no

Li-?)s.j . - .. v.4* . G ENER AL A SSEM BLia kk. k yhx j.. o k::.! . 2 s-rxva os luulnols

. .k j ; ..:.!. . ': .x . H 0 kl S E Ch F Fl E P Fl E s 1: hl T A T I M E S1,, . !.:rï!:.--

211.

discrimination to hiring an promoting of people on race.

color or creede I think, in light of that fact. propounded

by the amount of.money they're asking, we should know some-

thing about these figures. For example: in the Director's

Office, a total of twenty-four employees, no black. In the

Administration Service, total number of twenty-nine emplcyee .

no black. In the Accounting Division. eight employees, one

' oriental, no black. In the Legal Service, I assume these

are a1l Lawyers, forty-eight total employees, no black, no

minorities, no women, Genie, Giddy. In the Laboratory, fift -

nine'employees, no black, no orientals. In the Sanitary

Engineering Department, a total of a hundred and fifty'

employees, a hundred and ten male, Eorty females. Genie and

Giddy, two blacks out of that whole total. In the Land

Pollution Control Division, thirty employees, twenty-six

male, four females, no orientals, and it follows as night

does day, no black. What is this all about? Now, these are

relatively new Institutions, all of which have been put to-

gether and funded by the General Assembly since the Governor

came out with his mandate that shall be no discrimina.tion

. in the recruitment training and upgrading of people based

on race, color and cre'ed. And, hete we have three Agencies

spending millions of millions of dollars of the taxpayers'

money viclating, violating the màndate, not only of the

Governor, but of the General Assembly and. also the Constitut on

of the State. I would' like to have some answers to this.

At this point, I dare say that we can't stop this Bill and

.e -.....nx --- '.w* k' .u z''..s- h t'cpns G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yç kQ7tG v' ùjF k ' N . x Q s T A. T e: o F I L L 1 11 o 1 s.j. Jd .V ' ' . s o uj s q: o g a s e n = s E N T A. q' 1 v e: s.p

.. j. .j,

212.

I don' t want tti''stop anything that * s anti-pollution . But,I

i l don d t want to be a part of anyi hing that ' sI certa n y

perpetuating institutional racism. And, I'm certain that th

Sponsor of that 4Bil1 doesn't want to be put in that position

I would like to have some answers. think, everybody in

here is entitled to some answers. I think, Senate Partee

is going to demand some answers when this Bill goes into

the Senate. .An8'- if I kncw Senator Partee as well as# I thi k,

I know him, he's -going to get scme answers. Soe think,

we should get tltn answers now to save that problem because

Senàtor Partee .is a much, much more harsher man than you or *

me. Can we have those answers?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Does the gen tleman wish to respond to

that rhetoricalxquestion?''

G. M. Burditt: ''I'd be delighted to: Mr. Speaker and Ladies

and Gentlemen of the House, because that's the kind of ques- '

tion that certalnly can not go w'ithout an answer. Ah.. I

don't kpow .exâctly how many ah.. blacks there are. Ah..

Representative Ep. ton asked me how many Jews there were.

And, Ted Meyer. just asked me how many Catholics there were.

And ah.., Henry Hyde is always interested in women. He aske

me how many women thère. were. I Meane Mrs. Dyer asked me

how many women there were. Ah.. and Henry was interested 'in

the third sex cn''a Bill a little while ago. Ah.. the fact: .ah.. ah.., Harold, is that Bill Blazer who is the Head ofr

. this Agency, when he 'was a Member of this House, ah.. was

one of the fairt.st ah.. and one of the ah.. chief sponsors,

. k' - A -'w . .e :: . .j) ..z; îj 'i.tg> c GENERAL ASSEMBLYq :2kr .'.îâ,M t svxvc oe- IuuIso,sUj # . r' : . r .* S. . *% . . eI o u s Ir o F :4 E e 14 e !; u el w - A' 1 v E s% . . ,%Vt

. . . -

213.

as you will recall. of the Open Occupancy Legislation. whic

was ah.. one of the hottest issues we had during Bill's

Session. Ah.. I can assure you, from my own personal know-

ledge of Bill .Blazer, that there isn't going to be the

slightest kind of discrimination in.. in any kind ah.. in th

ah.. in the Environmental Protection Agency. Ah.. Bill is

an eytremely fair-minded guy. And. there's no way that you' e

going to find any discrimination over there.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Stark, Mr. Nowlan.''

J. D. Nowlan: ''Mr. Speaker, in further response to Representa-

tive Washington, I think, it ah.. should be pointed out,

babl reaiized by Representative Washingtonw that ah..and pro y,

this Administration in the past three years has increased

as a percentage of. total State Employees the numfer of blacks

from five percent of the total number employed to twelve

percent. And, it has tripled the number of blacks in high-

ranking, grade and above positions in the State of I11i-

nois and has appointed the first black Director of a Code.A

Department in the State of Illinois. It's unfortunate ah..

but it's the nature of educational and cultural system to

this point, that the Environmental Protecticn Agency positio s

are highly technical ;h.. positions which require ah.. a

great educational and technical skill which we, as a societ ,

have not yet provided blacks and other minority grcups.

And, it is ùhere where we must direct our attention. And,

I believe, the record of this Administrition across the Boar

in its commitment to the hiring of minority groups is with-

...' y. <* :J h%c.r.xz o E x E R A L A s s E M B L vr z..u , y: -$ t i'k.h.j . sxxvs oe , uu,-o Isy. - 'e+ . .1 1/ *?.''' ' *. R . H 0tJ SE O F R EeR EES E HT AT I V CS.. ? . J .)v''-!t7D''

214.

out parallel in the history of the State of Illinois-''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser; ''Now, let's ah.. Representative

Washingtone I thought, you had concluded your remarks when

asked Burditt a question. So, youlve.. you've got some more

time left. Do you wish that time right now? Proceed, Sir.''

H. Washington: I just want to make abundantly clearthat I'm not accusing Bill Blazer of being discriminatory.

I know Bill Blazer very well and that's why I'm so much

disturbed about it just because I kncw that he doesn't

countenance discrimination, tacet or otherwise. But, I'm

faced with the horrible facts. All of these lucrative jobs. .

having been given out in the past two years, and the black

brothers are getting ncne of'them and very few of the black

sisters or the orientals and very few females and polish,

they tell me. I want some answers to that. I think,

Bill Blazer is the person tùat can give them.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive E<el1.''

R. W. Ewell: ''Mr. ah.. Would the Sponsor ah.. ah.. yield to

a question?''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Ah.. Where is' the Sponsora''

R. W . E'well : ''Well . . . .. ''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Here he cumes... Here he comes...

I was just getting the answers# Mr. Speaker.nR. W. 2eel1: ''We1l unfortunately, ah.. we' have too many#

answers and that's our problem. I ah.. wonder if the Sponso

would amiable and sort of take this Bill out of the record

.. ' .i x ' ..e'V t' e -) ' ; . .j' ,'''?.>zy ''e G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Ytk

-.ts 4: .' , .k. .- , . 't:.1 'C.- . . s 'r A. 'r s o e t u t. 1 pl o 1 s'kt ..' .r', .r . owsc o y, a sps ss c x .r s.x 1 u ss: e . pjfz ;. 4 %1L e Oï1 ...- -

. zl5

' until tomorrow so maybe we could juét a little discussion

with the mh-mDirector, etc., some other time and we'd have

no problem? Ande I think, that ah.. the fine record that

the ah.. Govêrnor is setting would be kept in order and

. everybody would be happy.''

G. M. Burditt: '''AY.. Ray, ah.. 1et me say, I would much rather

not'do that for a lot of reasons, p' rimatily, beeause we're

so late in the Session. And, this question, we can certa in1

get aired in the Senate. Ah.. let me say, that I have also

spoken to the Director, and among othersy the Supervisor of

the 'Dupage Râvez Basin ah.. is a black. That's one of the

fa:test growing and one of the most important Areas in the

State. Andy it is directly under the supervision of a new

blaek supervisor. Ah.. there are ah.. other blacks who are

in the Agency. And this ah.. And, you weren't here, Ray.

when Bill élazer was here, but ah.. if you'd had been, I'mI

suye you would have shared Harold Washxngton's and my views

on Bill nlaper personally. He's not going to counkenance

anything like that, as Harold Washington sayso''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The genklelan from Cook, Representav

tive Hyde.''

H. J. Hyde: ''Mr. Speakëry Ladies and Gentlemen of the Housee

this state has'a mechanism setup Yo ah.. give relief to

ah.. anybody w'po's been ah.. discriminatpd against because

of their race, 'because of their color, because of their

religian. And; I would submit that the distinguished gentle

man from Cook: who raised this point, ought to compile a lis

.. . .. .$z'h; ' . ' 'z.,. %%:. . 2) ? ?. -C -)->, r. . G E N E 11 A L A S S E M B 1. Y- tf-; .) rz-j, : sxxvs .s luujs.ods y... . .

, *t<? =: ' ' *. H o kl s e: o F R E e Fl e: s E pl 'r A 'r 1 v E sî Xi''? - '' * *%'ï *

2l6 .

however long or short it is, of applicants who applied for

these posts with this Agency and who were qualified for the

job and who were denied their job because cf their race.

And, I will go with him to the appropriate Agency to see

that relief... proper relief is accorded as I'm sure will th

Sponsor... the Chief Sponsor of this Bill. It doesn't help

the discussion to list jobs and to say that there are noblacks or there are no orientals. think, the revelant

statistic would be, how many met the specifications for the

job, the qualifications and applied for the job. wanted the

job' and didn't get it because of their race. Thene we have '

something to talk about. Absent that information, the rest

is ah.. ah.. simply muddying the wdters.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive Barnes.''

E. M. Barnes: ''Mr. Speaker and .Members of the House, in all

deference to the Sponsor of this Bill and to my lea'rned

Colleagme: .who' just spoke on the other side of the aisle.

I think, the facts are clear. Now here, the Governor' has

been pounding his employment program and its fine record in

this field by ah.. through other Agencies and throught the

àah.. public media. nd. here, we have a Department that has

been fully under his administration,. that gave birth, if you

will, under'his administration. Clearly; here is a Depart-

ment that is going against the grain of œverything that he

. ' has said his administraticn is doing. Now, in a1l respecti

to the Sponsor of this Bill, I thinky it's incoherent to see

....q:.,tja t:,-. .z x . a x I'lbt% ' G ENER A L A SSEM BLY. tt'.;,(.p. : . g. t-vt .' I f sv A'ru o e' 1 uu 1 e4 o 1 s

qf v. .r?t..' . '' -1-4 ' H Qkl SE o F 1: EP R E SE bl T A.T I V E S 1

217.

that the Director's Office has twenty-four employees. of scm

I imagine is typists or secretaries. Yet/ none of them are

of a minority rpce, not oneo' Now, here it be the people,

I imagine, i) we are going about our business in some quarte s,

telling private employers, if you will, that they should 1iv

up to etiquettes for equal rights for everyone. And here,

thé Governore the highest office in thé land, the highest

office in thAs State, if you will, has said that this is the

policy his administration is caring for. Yet, an Agency,

that gave birth to his administration, is not doing the very

thing that they expounding that they are saying that they *

are doing. In the Legal Department, you have some forty-

eight employees. I assume that some of those are Lawyers

and it.. it.. it''s unbehooving to me that in forty-eight

positions in the Legal Department, ycu could not find one

black qualified Lawyer. Nowy. something is wrong. Something

is extremely wrong when somethihg like this exists. . If we

are not going to have a commitment from the administration

of Public Agencies, a commitment from the Governor of this

State right down to each and everyone of the people that liv

in this State, how can we expect that any help can come from

any quarters? I've heard so many. Representatives stand up

in these halls and holler about ihe.problems that we have

with welfare. Welle I wonder why the prcblem with welfare

has not increased, ten times foure when we do not have the

. commitment from the Governor of this State to insure that an

Agency, that was born under his administration, would of

...'qk <. ;nx.zikkx :k?. 4,TR> - G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y2 è

.A ''-rqj, : svxv.e o, 'uulao,sj. ' . , .;p ltzy/ T?'U'.. z H o @ s ? o F R E e R E s E N T & TIV E sf/dz 4,r,. r)!x=

218.

had to of passed practice employment rules. I just can'tsee Now. if that is the case, think, we're all kiddi

ourselves and we should al1 go hole and start all over agai .

I think, that this Agency needs to take ah.. we need to tak

a hard look at this Agency. I think, that there are things

that should be sturdier. believe, that, in a11 respect

to the Sponsor, that he should pull this Bill out of the

record, hold it for a day or so and 1et us try ko talk and

come up with some type of solution here.'''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representa-

tive capuzi.''

L. F. Capuzi: ''Ah.. Ladies and Gentlemen and Mr... Ah.. and

Members of the House, I think, I have the solution t6 this

problem. I am a Member of the Mincrity Group Representatio

ah.. Committee here. And, It's my understanding that this

Departm'ent will come under our ah.. Committee ah.. and ah..

a thorough investigation will be made. Of course, that's

all aho. entirely up to ah.. Mr. Epton and the rest of the

Members of this Committee. And, I think. they'll a1l enjoi

with me to try to find a solution here or ah.. so that we

can straighten this whole matter out.''

Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Ccok, Representa-

tive Caldwell-''

L. A. H. Caldwell: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I recall that four years

ago, ah.. the Governor made a commitment that ah.. Minbrity

Groups, including sex, would be given every opportunity to

seek and be upgraded higher than upgraded in State Governpent

.. . . k .. xZ 'k M''1? tD?>kh G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y0..,. .,, (i t . ,..1 xvwve oe ,uulaopst. , ... ' M. *$ . Hoklll QF REPIRKSCNTATIVEBz p& 'g*'* . -

219.

positions. I would ah.. say to the Sponsor of this Bill tha

we are asking a little of nothing asking him to hold this

Bill, at this time, so that we can discuss this matter. I

Mruld suggest that the Governor said to a group of eighteen

black legislators that he had two task forces, one to canvas

the high schools of this State, urging Minority Groups to

seek employment. Another, would do so at the College level.

It was interestihg to me that Representative Nowlan indicate

ah.. hinted, implied that blacks were. not capable. Andy

therefore, they would have to ah.*. prepare themselves in

order to qualify for the types of jobs that seem to ah.. be

manned in this particular Agency. I merely want to suggest

that the creation of this Agency, implementation of it,. with

as the same old pattern of a lack of equality of opportunity

indicates to me that we are continuing our system of sus-

taining of what I'd like to call ah.. institutional racism.

Now, 1, personally, am not blaming the Gcvernor or not

blaming ah...ah.. my Cdlleagues here on the floor who are.A'

not black. I blame me.. myself and my fellow black brothers.

I believe, that what we need to do, is to get right down

to the kernel of this thing and.. and dehl with Andfif we sit here like ah.. dummies and 1et this type of thing

continue as it... we have some figures on practically every

Department i Government here and the pattern is the same.J'And: 1, 'personally, have.. have become a little sick and tir d

of canvassing these halls throughout theàe buildings here

'in the State complex and seeing seas of white faces and very

.z'k yj;A 's.1 wl7J>z G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y- kè ;; l e , (.k . : svAvs oe 'uu'so'sl'. î. y, n... .. .* 4,'e. . HOLIIE 0 F R ?PR ESeNT A T I %/ esYQ# '1 * *

220.

few blacks. We have some token blacks in practically every

Department here ah.. except probably the ah.. parts of the

Secretary of State's Office. And, think, that it's time '

for al1 of us to come face to face with the actual facts

and determine, once and for all, if we are going to continue

to tolerate that or are we going to change it. And, I dongt

believe, that the black Members of this ah.. Assembly ah..

will ah.. ah.. will be reaelected if we continue to sit'

' tihere on our seats and do nothing about it. So. I m sugges g

to ah.. the.. the sponsor of this Bill to.., if he woulde

ah.. hold it and.. and let us ah.z discuss ah.. with ah..

the.. the people who are going to mann this brand-new

Department. You see, kE we are gcing to do as the administ -

tion promised us, ah.. be fair and hire a proportiovate numb rof ah.. minority groups/ we would have done it. We wou' ldn't

have to be here on the floor asking for you to do this, at

this time. I think, that that's a little enought to request.

I believe, that we ought to get down to some serious talk,.e-#

'

ah.. the two days that we're going to be here or whatever

time, and.. and spend the rest of this Session trying to

get this matter straightened out Xor the best interest of

everybody in this State-''

Hon. Robert Blair: ''The gentle'man from Cook , Mr. J. Wolf-''

J. J. Wolf: ''Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I move the

E previous question.''r ' .' Hon. w. Robert Blair: ''All those in êavor say 'aye' opposed#

'no' the 'ayes' have.it and ah.. wèlre back to the main

/3 .%. ; ''''''-x ' . G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y4: ' : ,.. (1 G. t . ; s'ra'rz o e I uu1 e: o Is

.'.j. z r. . -. zss oe ases sssavxvlv cs. . , . :1 ol , ; î r $ a ....S'. .

22l

questiov. The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Burditt, to close.''

G. M. Burditt: '.Ah.. Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, ah.. if I thought that thete was the slightest ques-

tion in this Agency of all Agencies in the Statez ah.. o/

any discrimination, I would be very happy to comply with the

gentleman's request that this Bill be held. Ah.. I'd be

happy to spend ah.. hours of .debate, but not one second for

tribute to a point that, I think, is completely poorly taken

against an Agency which ah.. has been' under the supervision

. . *of one of the fairest men that I've ever knowp in my life.

And, when he was a Member of this House, he showed it by

being a chief sponsor and a very active sponsor of a1l kinds

of Bills which were designed to eliminate discriminatiohs

of any kind at any State Agency or any Public Body of any

kind. So ah.., with ah.. having said that, ah.'. those of

you, who knew Bill Blazer when he was here, will cerkainly

concur, I'm sure, in everything I've said about him. And#

I dpn't know why this point was raised. It has neverbeen discussed with me ah.. or ah.. with Mr. Blazer or befor

any of the Committee Hearings which this Bill has gone

through ah.. in the ah.. in the House. It's been through

two Committees. Ah.. I think, it's a little late to raise

the question and ah.. I'm sure that Mr. Blazer will have ah..

eomplete numbers and everything else when the Bill is called

for ah.. a hearing in the Senate. But ah.., with a1l due

respect to the gentM man's request, I.. I would like to have

a vote on the Bill today because we are so late in the Ses-

. . . ;, . . 'tg. '' . r 1 . .S u-/ ou:nb-t*'-jtsê-'b G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yd j IJ . .k , ujs!j c> ç -. I . s .!. A .r u o g I u u 1 e: o $ s

.? - gn? . ?.* '% x : : . y4 o u s r o !: a e: e R E s 1: a T A. 'r 1 u Ir sl . m * .

222.

sion. b'ecause. I know, that this point is not well taken.

And: I can only point out that there wasn't a single name

mentioned of ànyone who is qualified who applied for a job

and wés not given a job. Unless, we get to the specifics'

in an issue like this there's no way that we can answer#

the questions. So ah.., Ladies and Gentlemen of the House,

I ah.. urge you to vote in fqvor of House Bill 4139.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman ah.. from ah.. Cook. Mr.

Lechowicze ai.. for what purpose do you rise?''

' T. s. Lechowicz: ''Mr. Speaker. I was hoping that the Sponsor

would reconsider his position. It's absolutely true, exactl

what he's stated as far as the two hearings that this Bill

went through and both... and the thorough hearing that 'it

had in the Appropriations Committee. But, in turn. to pro-

mote the tranquillity and peacefulness of this House, I wou d

hope that the Sponsor would pull this Bill.' If you want ah..

I you want ah.. If you want ah.. to take a vote, take it.

But. take.. take some advise-''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Ah.. ah.. the question is,

'shall House Bill 4139 passa'. Al1 those in favor will

vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. The gentleman ah.. from#

cook. Mr. R. L. Thompson.''

R. L. Thompson: ''Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, I've listened to the discussions here and I've heard

one of the speakers, the Sponsor of this Bill, with all due

respect to him say, 'it'.s a little late'. Yes, it is late

maybe to pull this Bill. It has been late down through the

..œ* :< f '. :.! ry ve :.:. N?N ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L; t u t-r&.,!: svwve oe ,uu,wo,sç-.k . ... 7t/ I'F .Y.. . HQkl 5E o F n Ee R E SE N T A.T 1 V CS, t z . I .

...1: % ':.. . . .. .. -.

223

years and it's later now than you think. And, I heard

another speaker say, 'that we think we can rectify these

things'. We're too far down the r'oad now to start think-

ing about these things. We want to know these things are

going to be rectified. And, I don't think, it's ever too

late to do good. And, the reason that I'm going to vote 'n '

on this Bill is because I'm not satisfied with the explana-

tion that I've heard. And, we have met with the Governor

on matters similar to this last year and he made several

promises to us. If hets not going to keep his promises,

I think, something should be done about it. And, 1'11 vote

'no' on this lssue. Thank you.''

'' 1 man Trom Unton , Mr . cùoake . ''Hon. W. Robert Blalr: The gent e

C. L. Choated ''Well Mr. Speaker, ah.. I have not heard a11#

'

.

of the discussion on this particular piece of Leglslation

as the Members sitting around me well knows. Ah.. I

have ah.. come back on the floor while there's iome very

meaningful ah.. attempts to question certain practices, as

I understand it, that has been ah.. brought about by the

' Agency. Ah.. I think, that it would be no more than

I Tair to allow these gbntlemen an opportunity to ask

the questions which they desire fo ask. Therefore,

Speaker, I'm going to vote 'present' on this piece of Legis

lation and hope that it is held over until such time as

these Members do have an opportunity to ask the questions

that they desire to havë an answer And vote

5 W V e S O Z 't ' * ' '

' .. ï'''-'V G E N E lt A L A S S E 56 B L Y

. 4 :: .. ; y.. 'ù1 f ./ . . 2 svxve oc I uuI N ols. .(g.ns. ., sousu og ssessss-vavlw cs.v

'

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'

le'' *L!... --. - - --

zz4.

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Record the gentleman as

'present'. And ah.., the gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr.'

Hyde . ''

H. Hyde: MThank you, Mr. Speaker. And I ah.. hope and I

will await, with great interest, a submission of a list of

those blacks, that applied for Jobs for which they were

qualified and for which they were turned down because of

. their race. And unless, that list is forthcoming, then, I

think, we can determine the sincerity wlth which this ' araument has been put forward. And, 1 think, they ought to ''''''' .! have as much time as possible to come up with that list.

We're now in the middle of June. This Bill was filed in

April and this issue was first raised when we're on Thikd

Reading. And now, the game is to lay off and to bring the

Legislative Process to a halt. Fine. If thatts the way

the other side of the aisle wishes to conduct themselves

on this and other Legislation, it is their responsibility.

It is nFt our/. We're fulfilling our responsibility. But,

if there has been invidious discrimination, generalities

won't do. The general charges won't do. I think) Mr. Blaze

should be held accountable'for the Job that *as denied the

black girl or the black man becauae of his race. And, take

as much time gentlemen and ladies on the other side of the

aisle, to come up with that list. But, you'd better come

up with that list.'t

Hon. b1. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah.. The gentleman

from Cook, Mr. Davis.''

... , k & #. : .z.tr;k .. tl -.r ,!jj,/0aJ% 4c1>, c G E N E R A L A S S E M B L/ <:-r'#-(..jt svxvs o. ,uu,s-ols; f.- t! .. L.?..6. . aouss ov sseacsssvxvlwes .ll. .. .%3.z

zz5.

C. A. Davik: HMr. Speaker, Ladïes and Gentlemen of the House,

since the distinguished Majority Leader wants me to come up'

wïth a list, I thought, I'd just dig into my file here on

F.E.P.C. I'm going to come up with a list now. Wefre not

accusing Mr. Blazer, satan as Harold has put it. We're

not accusing him. In fact, wefre not accusing any of them.

But, whatls that mans name who say/ 'eternal vigilance is th

. prïce of liberty'?'' We want to be vigilant in this matter.

C i l I felt proud when the other' day, in the Appropriaerta n y,

tions Committee, a young lady came in there and she was

deïinltely black and she headed the Department of Family

and Children Planning. This was certainly progress. And,

I agreed with it and I congratulated his Excellencyz' the

Governor,.on it. But, I'm still going to be vigilant. Now,

' let me give you a few figures since you want a list. There

were o;e thousand, seven hundred and eighty-seven cases file

in the Fair Employment Practice Committee. And, do you know

what haypened? We had to return eight hundred and thlrty-

five of those cases.....''

Hon. W. Robert Blalr: ''One.. One.. One moment, please. For

what purpose does the gentleman from Cook, Mr. J. J. Wolf

rise?''

Wolf: ''Mr. Speaker, I wonder if we might have the time

light put on for explanation?''

Hon. W.-Robert Blair: ''I'm sorry. I've got it on here.''

C. A. Davis: ''This won't take but a second. I just want ah..

want ah. want ah.. to enlighten you. Eight hundred and

. '' Ql .* .7' '.. '.'t .. t'q*w t GENERAL ASSEM BLY(c.. . : 7 - jû' ,d... :-3 svax.e ov 1 uu,xolsî7u, t nv... . owss o. scpsasusxaxjwes .

* . yj

t ..v . ., . :*-!.''

226.

thirty-five of those cases were turned.... returned because,

you know, we have pleaded with this House and pleaded wlth lt

and the House had passed it. Butf wefve pleaded with theSenate and the Senate has either ignored it or defeated it.

We've pleaded for initiatory powers. We don't want to go

in and ah... have a man go in and say, 'my boss discriminate

against me', because, we know., that he's going to be fired

the next month. b%e want the Commission to be able to

institute some of these charges. And, the Commission in-

vestigated nine hundred and thirty-five of these one thousan ,

seven hundred and eighty-seven cases and they had to return

eight hundred and thirty-flve of them. That's why we want

to be vigilant and here's your list.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman ah. from Cook, Mr. Duff.'f

B. B. Duff: ''Mr. Speaker, I am dismayed by the apparent sincerity

of some of the comments that seem to be being made, at this

time. Here, we have one of the most important items facing

the people of Illinois the problem of a clean environment.

And then, we have people stand up, people who many of us in

this House have had repertoire with and have tried to help

ïn the past, stand up at a' political point in time, towards

the final days of the Legislature', make unfounded charges

of unsubstituted facts, come about to try to say that a

Governor, who has accomplished some of the greatest records

in the area of the lack of discrimination in the history of

the State of Illinois i's not doing what he should be doing. '

relative to a mïnute percentage of the empl- . of the employ es

. ' ' ' 'A &' 'a.. 362% . )j .ou. izl'>k G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YI ? t2.) ;-h. : svxxs o, luu'xolsf./k.., ,'..v.?.). .* ''%''e -. . H Q Ll S E Q F R E e R E S E $1 T A. T 1 V E 5t o .. s%?ï ' '' '. 2 *

' 227

of this State. A mere point four percent. And, any statist'-

cal study of the employement of the State of Illinois will

point out, not only that he has ra'pidly increased the employ

ment of blacks in the State of Illinois, but ilso, that

there are many parts of State Government which would have a

larger percentage than the total belated to the population.

énd, these persons, at this point in time, would suggest

that the Governor and the other parts of State Agency should

dismiss those blacks which are in Agencles where there is

larger than a percentage of the population then if they

would not take that position, they should not, at this time,

say that a mere point four percent of the.. of the percentag

of State Employees indicates, in any way, lack of aciion' on

the part of a Governor who has been doing a remarkable Job

in this Area.''

Hon. W. Ro'bert Blair: 'lThe gentleman from ah. . Cook Mr. Ewell ''

R. W. Ewell: nMr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen, ah.. itfs

rather regretful that ah.. the gentleman should ask for

statistlcs because we have an awlull wealth of statistics.

I would like to state, first of all, in this explanation

that we're not accusing thê Governor. The Governor stands

at the top of the liat of lmproveïents. And, when lt comes

to employment, will never be bipartisan. Yes, it's true.

The Governor's Office has fifteen percent males black-employ d

and ten percent females. He leads every other State Agency

and that's a fact. We w'ill not deny the facts. However,

there are Agencies in this State, and we can take a look at

SK g ''ià lszw y c E N E R A t, A s s E M B t. Yw,j,i n,) tJ r3. svwvc o'v juul-ols-.. ,, -@: , '. .* N . . H o u @ E o F a t e R l lq N T' A.r I v e s .) .. . @ ----. . ... -. .

228.

them, and we're talking about their personal staffs now,

we're not talking about the Code Departments, that do not

have such fine records. And, in the past, I have not been

so reminiyced that would not attach the Secretary of

State's Office. And, 1'11 say that the Secretary of State's

Office, at this time, has one of the lowest proportions. No ,

we have here a complete compilation of al1 the statiptical' '

data of all those Agencies. We shall give credit where

credit is due. But, when criticism is necessary, will

come forth because we are no longer content to' be a silent

majority.f'

Ilon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. ah..

Burditt.''

G. M. Burditi: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House ah.. my own personal opinion that this argument,>

'

particularly, in regard to an Agency of which Bill Blazer

is the head is about as specious as any argument that I've

ever heard on the Tloor of the Houle. But, my own personal

opinion, obviously, doesn't count for something like this.

Ah.. lt's the opinion of the majority of the Members of this

House, ah.. since we have no Democratic votes whatsoever,

we can not pass this Bill today, at least, without any Demo-

cratic votes ah.. request the leave of the House to take

the Bill out of the record.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: HAlright. Does the gentleman have

leave? Alright.. Wet11.. Alright.. We'11... Wefll take

out of the record and ah.. for what purpose does ah.. doe

78.:,% G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yt'h : $ T , x:t .. . : *TAT'? oe luul-oll!- ' Y *

H@Kl*E OF ''KPR/*KNTATIVKI '),x. ;- . .. . - - --

229.'tleman from ah.. Cook Mr. Harold Washington, rise?''the gen ,

H. Washington: f1I rise on a point of personal privilege, Mr.

Speaker.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: f'Alright.. State your point.''

H. Washington: ''Ah..that illupions me as to the motives of the

people Who were propounding the p/oposition that rapid

dlscrimination apparently exists in these three Departments.

And, since I introduced the issue, I assume, that those re-

marks were directed to me. And, I want to respond to that

very briefly by saying two things. One, the figures, which

Representative Barnes and I read off, just came to us today.

; So, we are timely. We responded as quickly as we could. Th!E: Bill was on Third Readlng and we moved immediately t6 bringIi .

it to the attentlon of the House what we considered to be

discrimination. Secondly, and more importantly, Representa-

tive Hyde has thrown down a guantlet, but he threw it at the

wrong place. WeAre not going to give you any figures, Mr.

H de I.t is n'ot incumbent upon us to give you any figuresy . .

as to what blacks applied and what females applied, what

orientals applied and what was the disposition. We do not

owe you that. The State of Illinois has an affirmative

action program and policy in refeYence to recruitment, an

affirmative, positive recruitment from every Agency in State

Government that has been enunciated by the Governor and that

has added to the entire administration I understood. So,

youfll get no figures frbm us. What we will say to you is

simply this, we have presented a prima facie case, a damn

. . x >..w

' f b. ) LT. G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y1 T'Ji- ) 1 if , ' .t C BYXX'Z W V 1 V' L d M 0 ' 94 ' ' ei ' e *' *% . $1 o u 1 * * F' R E P R E. * E M T A T I V K *

J - *,< . .. . . - --- -- .-

. gag.

good One and We Want Some ansWers to

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Hyde.''

H. J. Hyde: ''Ah.. Mr. Speakqr, I don't wish to prolong this

discussion but I'm not surprised... Ifm not surprised at'#

the remarks of the distinguished gentleman, who Just spoke.

But, of course, I didn't want figures, want names. If..

If they charge discrimination, they can't say there's a

. , . prima Tacie case made because a certain percentage of employ es

are not members of one race or one religion or one ethnic. *

' group. That won't wash. You have to show, in my Judgement,

you have to show me a black person, you have to show me a

Chicuano, you have to show me a Chinese, you have to show me

a Catholic, you have to show me a Jew, that that Agency're-

fused to hire because of their blackness, because of their

Jewishness, because of some other reason extraneous to their

qualiTications. Until you do that, Sir, you haven't made

a prima facie case and youlre just talking in the wind.''

Hon. W. Robqrt Blair: ''For what purpose does the gentleman

from Cook, Mr. Barnes, rise?''

E. M. Barnes: HAH.. Mr. Speaker, on a point of personal

privilege.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''State your point.'t

E. M. Barnes: ''My point is, ah.. during the debate, was allude

to that some felonious figures had been given out. Andi

since I was the one that received these figures, would 1ik

to make it crystal clear. that these figures came from the

Legislative Council here. Now, if the figures are felonious

'(q nz .'cltt-r'rx'c c E N E R A L A s s E M B t. v) y.%2 k-' t l-ot sxwvs os 'ut-jslo'svt.)...y...p ' % R. = *. H O tl S E o F R e: P R Er 5 E N T A T I V E S

%t G v , R' '. . ! . . .. ... . .. - . ... ........ .. . ..... -

they are felonlous because they came from the Research Arm

of this Legislature. And, I want to only add that to the

debate. And, if what it is that yöu want, any one of you

can get this. They, from thelr.. The Agency itself gave'

these figures to that Agency. And, we asked Tor them and

they gave them to me. Now, I canl't blame a person up here.

But, accordlng to these Jigures, out of Tour bundred and

twenty-six employees ln that brand-new two year o1d Departme t,

only seventeen are black and two orientals. And you can't,

'

discount that.''Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. House B111 4452. The ah..

gentleman from Henderson, Mr. Neff.''! Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4452, an Act to provide 'for the

ordinary ànd contingent expenses of the State Highway Safety

Program, direct.... and to direct the transfer of money be-

tween funds in the State Treasury. Third Reading of the

. B i l l . ' 'Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Henderson, Mr. Neff. '

E. Neff: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, House Bill 4452 is the appropriation from the Highway

Safety Fund for the State Highway Safety Program for the

fiscal year beginning July the 1972. Now ah.. through

an agreement, why ah.., from the Leaders on 50th sides ah..

and the Appropriations Committee, an Amendment was put on

this which reduced the appropriation from $15,055,300 to

ah.. $13,430..33.. 33 aùd 200. Ah.. in other words, a ah..

the original appropriation has been reduced $1,175,900. Ah.

o ç ; e, G I.: N E R A j- A s s If M IJ L y: . ( 7:.7>4 N '(TJ. : ,ê o , sJ- sxavc o,e Iuulao,s

.z t.zJ:...-' . sou ss o e. a sen s ss a-r sx I v us- . *.'

.

232.

And ah..' In this, Mr. Speaker, it would be a total of

$4,400,000 would be transferred from the Road Fund and the

Driver's Educational Fund into the. Highway Safety Fund as

the State's share in this jointly funded program.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Is there further dlscusslon?

The question is, 'shall this Bill pass?'. Al1 those in Tavo

wlll vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have al1 voted who' . .

wished? The Clerk will take the record. On this question,

there are l55 'Ayes' 2 fNays' and thls Bill havlng received)

. *the Constitutional majority is hereby declared passed. Reso u-

tions. Well ah.., there.. there's some concurrences.''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Joint Resolution #140, Concurrence

on the ah.. Senate Amendment...''

Hon. :. Robert Blair: NThis is ah.. ah.. simply a clarificatio

of ah.. last week's adjournment resolution. The gentleman

ïrom ah.. Yeah.. Cook, Mr. Hyde.''

H. J. Hyde: ''We1l Mr. Speaker, this ah.. Resolution really

has already been adopted, I presume. But ah.., it's been

clarlfied and lt just says that welre going to come into ah.

today at 11:00 o'clock. So, having done that, ah.. the.. 1.

The problem is with the Senate ah.. adjournment. So,

in any event, ah.. I move we adopt House Joint Resolution

#140 . ''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. The ah.. motion is that the

House concur in Senate Amendment to II.J.R. #4.. #140. All

those in favor say 'aye'. the opposed fno' the 'ayes' have# )

it and the House concurs. Alright.. Now, one moment for..

c' t A ..e vh . .(k <? %' x4 tk. 77-, % G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y: ty: :-. '!-,.,w.)k svwx.s os IuujsolsCV ''* $ ? *'X* ' -% , HotisE o!e R EracscN'r A'F1v e:sl é. . , s .%!,' ' .' !

. -.. -'

233.

Welve got to go back and pick up ah.. one Bill on or two...

Is is one or two? On Second Reading. Ah.. House Bill 4674. '

F dric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4674 a' Bill for an Act in relare ,tion to State Comptroller. Second Reading of the Bi11. Ah.

One Commlttee émendment. Amend House B111 4674 on Page

andsoforth.''Hon. W. Robert Blair: uThe gentleman from Union, Mr. Choate.''

C. Choate: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker) I'm going to move, first,

that a' h.. the Committee Amendment No. l be tabled. And, I'm

going to advise the House that the reason that .I'm doing

this is because 1 have another Amendment that I'm going to

offer now. And, the Ccmmittee Amendment is included in the

much larger Amendment that I'm going to offer. And, ihe'

reason that I'm olfering the Amendment from the floor to

replace the Committee Amendment is because it's at the

suggestion of the Administration, the Bureau of the Budget,

' if that I offered.. ah.. suggestion of the Auditor of Public

Accountsr the State Treasurer's Office. And, the peoples

who was on the Committee, appolnted by the Governor, and

the Auditor to study the implementation of the Auditor's

Office. So, therefore, Mr/ Speaker, I would move that would

table Committee Amendment No.

Hon. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. The gentleman offers and

moves the adoption of Committee Amendment No. l and then

moves to table that Amendment. A11 those... Does the

gentleman have leave to iable? Hearing no objection, ah..

Committee Amendment No. 1 will be tabled ah.. and ah.. ah..

.' .. k wj' . . .'. xxJ G t c$. &. 1#' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y1 Vo t J , J e'?l k s v w v u: o fz 1 t. t. I el o 1 s. . t ? -65 ' ' @% . sotl ss o e n s psk cse a'r w.r I v cs

234.

Are there Turther Committee Amendments?'f

Fredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment No. 2, Choate, amend House Bï11

4674 on Page 1, Line 13, by deleting îfiscal officer',

andsoforth.'':

Hon. W. Robert Blair: I'Ah.. the gentleman from Dnion, Mr.

Choate.''

C. L. Choate: ''Ah.. yes, Mr. Spéaker. Now, this is the Amend-

ment that I wish to move the adoption of, which includes

ah.. Committee Amendment No. And, this Amendment simply

brings about technical changes and clarificatiöns as far as

the Bill is concerned, at the suggestion of the Bureau of

the Budget, the Auditor of Public Accounts and the Blue

Ribbon Committee, that was appointed by the Governor and

the Auditor. And, I would move, Mr. .speaker, for the adopti n

of this Amendment.''

Hon. Robert Blair: ''Is there any discussion? The question

is on the adoption of the Amendment. A1l those in favor

wtll saye'aye' opposed 'no' the 'ayes' have it and the

Amendment is adopted. Are there further Amendments? Third

Reading. 4675.'1

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4675, a Bill for an Act trans-

ferring functions from the Auditor of Public Accounts to the

State Comptroller. Second Reading of the Bi11. No Committe

Amendments.r'

Hon. W. Robert Blair: HAny Amendments from the floor? Third

Reading. Now, Resolutions.'l

Fredric B. Selcke: HAh.. House Resolution- ...''

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235.

Hon. W. Robert Blair: HAlright.. We've got... Wait a minute.

Wefve got an Introduction of a Bill. Read the Bil1.''

Eredric B. Selcke: ''Ah.. House Bill ah.. 4685, ah.. Palmer,

et.al. Appropriates $553,600 to the Department of Local

Governmental Affairs. First Reading of the Bill. House Bil

4686, Duff, et.al. Amends 'Unified Code of Corrections'.

First Reading of the Bill. House Bill 4687, makes an appro-

priation for the salary of the dtate Comptroller. First

Reading of the Bi1l.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah.. Cook, Mr. Palme .''

R. Palmer: ''Mr. Speaker, ah.. and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, in connectian in House Bill 4685, which has to do

with the State's Attorney Appropriation Bill, that part that

is to be #aid Tor by the State. Ah.. I now move you thatthe provisions of the appropriate rule ah.. 38, I believe it

is, be suspended so that this Bill can be ah.. can go to

Second Reading without reference to Committee. This has

been cleared with the other side.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Is there... Does the gentle

man have leave ah.. Alright.. Hearing no objection then th#

'

rule will be suspended. And, that Bill will be advanced to

the order of Second Reading withdut reference. Ah.. Resolu-

tions.''

Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Resolution... House Resolution 700,

Rayson, et.al. House Resolution 701, Lindberg, et.al. Hous

Resolution 702, Hirschfexd. Ilouse Resolution 703, Hirschfel .

House Resolution 704, Walters, et.al. House Resolution 705,. ..y .. ..z'e k YA A 4 '

'' u-u. 6 .'Tts. dr G E N E R A L A S S E M I 1 L Y

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236.

Tuerk, eteal. House Resolution 706, Colltz, et.al. House

Resolution 707, Houlihan, et.al. House Resolution 708,

b i ler House Resol -capuzi, et.al. House Resolution 70 , Sch s .

tion 710, Pierce, et.al. House Resolution 711, Rose, et.al.

House' Resolution 712, Hanahan, et.al. House Resolution

713, Otis Collins, et.alu House Resolution 714, Waddell,

et.al. House Resolution... House Joint Resolution 141,

Timothy Simms. House Joïnt Resolution 143, Lindberg, et.al.

Ah.. House Joint Resolution 142, Conolly, et.al.''.

*

Hon. W. Robert Blaïr: ''Tbe gentleman Trom Cook, Mr. Hyde.''

H. J. Hyde: 'tThank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen of

the House, the Agreed Resolutions. House Joint Resolution

l4l directs the Illinois Legislative Investigating Comhiisio

ah.. to in/estigate the solicitation >nd disbursal practices

and general operational activities of all Law Enforcement

Associations ah.. in Illinois. House Joint Resolution 142,

ah.. is an expansion of House Joint Resolution 100 of the

Seventy-sixth General Assembly which permits the Waukegan

Port âuthority to use an additional twenty-elght acres for

recreational land in conjunction with its port Tacilities.

House Resolution... House Joint Resolution 143 directs the

Legislative Investigating Commissibn ah.. to study all aspee s

of Dram Shop Insurance. House Resolution ah.. 700 ah.. ask ..):

directs the Illinois Institute for Environmental Quality .l to study the ways in which to preserve drinking water re-! .

sources. llouse Resolutioh 701, congratulates the Crystal

Lake Jaycees. House Resolution 702 ah.. commends Mrs. Ruth#

. J, a en o llomer , 1 A noA s or ' orty- t hree years o gooz. ' .A l..- .' 2 .-! 7-N, , ' . . ' , ' G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y

.; '-te. G4% r 1. 'pv, ï s .r . v s o s , u u , ,q o 1 so -,.. iq.?.6.''- ' uouss oe ssenssssvav'vss .

237.

teaching. House Resolution 703, ah.. congratulates Mrs.

Wayne Bender ah.. upon her retirement from teaching. House

Resolution 704 eongratulates the Alton Senior Athletic Team

during the past year. House Resolution 705, congratulates

William Blackie upon his retirement as Chairman of the Board

of the Caterpillar Tractor Company. House Resolution ah..

706, ah.. commends the Israeli Government for augmenting

the security'personnel around. Tel Aviv Alrport. House Resol -

tion 707, ah.. congratulates Miss Lois Jean Green on her

selection as 'Miss Black Joliet of 1972% House Resolution

708, ah.. expresses our deep sorrow upop the death oT former

Captain Joseph C. Granata, of the former Chicago Park Distri t

Police and the brother of own ah.. Pete Granata. House

Resolution 709, ah.. congratulates Dr. Everett Coleman of

Canton, Illinois, upon recent selection as 'Alumnus of the

Year' by the University of Iloinois School of Medicine. '

House Resolution 710, ah.. memorializes the Superintendent

of Public I'nstruction to submit a circular to the School

Children of Illinois to determine their preference as to the

choice of an Official State Dog. Ah.. think, that it shou d

be pointed out that Representative Pierce is the Chief Spons r

of that one. House Resolution 711, is a memorial ah.. ah..

upon the death of Mrs. Beaulah L. Runkel of Jacksonville,

Illinois. House Resolution 712 congratulates John Desmond

upon his retirement from the Chic>go... Presidency of! .

i the chicago Teacbers'unlon. House Resolution 713, espresses!

! our sorrow upon the death of Walter Parrish, an Assistanti .

, . . !. ,i it' . . . .j o. kxq J ). .- (; s x s R a j. A s s E M j; j. y' ;J7 - ' ' ..6 '''711'*%1. 'I

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238.

State's Attorney of Cook County. House Resolution 714,

congratulateq Carl J. Meyer ah.., chief enèineer of Radio

Station WGN upo: his retirement. I now move ah.. We have

another one?'. Oh! Ah.. Mr. Speaker, I would like to with-

draw House àoint Resolution 142 from the list of Agreed

Resolutions. That was the one concerning the Port Authority

in Waukegan because I have learned thaf it is not an Agreed

Resolution. And so, that ls to be removed from my motion.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''For what purpose does the gentleman

from Cook, ah.. Mr. or... Cook, :r. Schlickman, rise?l'

E. Schlickman: ''Mr. Speaker, Ladies and Gentlemen of the '

House, as heard the brief description of these Agreed

Bills, understood and do understand that two of those Reso u-

tions are Joint Rèsolutions directing the Legislative In-

vestigating Commission to engage in investigations. Now, if

these are éf a substantive nature and absent evidence of .

demonstrable emergency, object' to the suspension of the

rules without ref... and the advancement.. or the adoptionZ '

of these without referral to Committee.''

Hon. W. Robert Blao'r: ''Wel1, I think, that's a reasonable re-

quest. Ah.. Why donft. Yeah... Wedre in agreement to

take those out zah.. and have them. go to Committee. The'

jj! gentleman from Rock Island, Mr. Henss.

D. A. Henss: ''W&11 I.. I suppose that it has now been takenI #I

out. I was going to ask that the one Resolution about ah..

an investigation of Dram Shop Insurance be read in its

entirety. Is Abat one of them which wil1.. will be taken

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239.

out of the ah.. of the list?''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from ah.. ah.. Cook, Mr.

Schlickman, the two that you requested, one was the Dram

Shop, what was the other one?''

E. Sehlickman: f'One was Dram Shop and the other was investl

gation of ah.. Law Enforcement Officials that engage in the

solicitation of funds, believe, as I heard them.''

Hdn. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. Ah... Does that take care

of your problem? Alright.. For what purpose does the

gentleman from ah.. McHenry, Mr. Lindberg, rise?''

G. W. Lindberg'. ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. Representative Matilev eh

and I are the Joint Sponsors oT l43 calling for the Legisla-

tlve Investigatlng Commlssion to loök lnto the problems oT

the Dram Shop ah.. ah.. Insurance Field. And, my concern

ah.. about taking it out is that it may not get a hearing

in what little time is left ah.. I think, if anybody has any

questions, perhaps, when it gets over to the Senatey.ah.. it

could be-entertained. But, it's Just a matter that just camto my attention and I want to try and get it ah.. ah.. throu h

ah.. so that they can get working on it.''

Hbn. W. Robert Blair: ''Well, 1,11 assign it to your Committee

ah.. if that would facllltate getking heard.f'

G. W. Lindberg: 'fWe11 Mr. Speaker, could I then move to sus-#

pend the appropriate rule so that we can hear ah.. ah.. this

Resolution on ah.. ah.. right.. right now?''

Hdn. W. Robert Blair: 'iWell I don't think, that's a propermotion. Ah.. a Member has requested that that ah.. ah..

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Resolutions in the.. in the Agreed Resolutions ah. come out!

Ah.. and that seems ah.. a Tair request. And ah.., youîve

made a request so you can get a hearing and I'm trying to

facilitate your getting a hearing as quick as possible. And

1'11 put it in your Committee so that you can call it as

quickly as possible. The gentleman from Bureau, Mr. Barry.''

T. Barry: îfI was Just going to suggest, Mr. Speaker, that any

Resolutions, perhaps, should have that same fair treatment.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''That's... That's Tine. 1111 ah..

1,11 ah.. assign ah.. ah.., if we take those out, they would

be in the category of further Resolutions. And on the one

that Mr. Lindberg... Yeah... What numbers do you want? Al-

right. 1'11 assign 143.... Is that a H.J.R.? Alright..

1'11 assign that to Judiciary II. And, wait a minute now.

The gentleman from McHenry, Mr. Lindberg, asked leave to.

suspend the provisions of Rule 17 so he can have that hear'd

in his Committee- ...''

G. *. Lindberg: ''After ad/ournment tomorrow.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Ah.. immediately following adjournment

tomorrow. Is there objection? Hearing hone, then ah.. leav

is given for that purpose. N6w, Mr. Simms has ah.. 141

And ah..,... And ah.., we'll assign that to Exec. And ah..

he requests the same leave to have ah. it heard. And now,

we'll ah.. recognize the gentleman from Cook Mr. Juckett' )

as to when he's going to have a meeting.''

R. .S. Juckett: ''What time do ybu have ah.. planned for adjourn

ment tomorrowy Mr. Speaker?''

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241.

Hon. W. Robert Blalr: 'fprior to the Soft Ball Game.''

R. s. Juèkett: ''We have most of the Stars on Executive Committe .So ah.., are we going in early tomorrow morning, Mr. Speake/ 'f

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''We11 ah.., Appropriations ls going toj *

meet at nine. Ah.. wefre going in at 10:30.''

R. S. Juckett'. ''We11 then, Executlve Committee will meet at

10:00 o'clock tdmorrow morning in Room M-5.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Well ... Alright.. There's not a con-A

flict. So ah.., then the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett,

asked leave to walve the provisions of Rule 17 so that that

Resolution may be heard in Exec. tomorrow morning at 10:00

o'clock. Okay.. Now, Mr. Lindberg, for what purpose do you

r i S O ? ' '

G. Lindberg: ''Ah.. Mr. Spèaker, then I would like to change

the Judiciary 11 Meeting tp 10:00 o'clock for the same pur-

pose. Ah.. we can meet in any ah..... We'll....''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright then, there's not a conflict

with Appropriations on thaf. So, we'll have that at 10:00,

but what about the rooms now? In your usual Meeting Room?''

G. W. Lindberg: ''Our usual Meeting Room is the floor. Are you

. going to be on the floor, Dave? 'We11, would you asaign it t

Exec. then, Mr. Speaker, and wedll handle.. hendle them b0th

in Executive?'f

Hon. W. Robert Blair: nTiat's fine. 'Alright.. 1'11 rerefer

143 from Judiciary 11 to Exec. Thq gentleman from Cook, Mr.

Juckett, ah.. asked suspensions of the Rules so now that tha

Resolution cah be hea/d in Exec. Is there objection? Heari g.

' qk. 'i .: '

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242

Hearing none, ah.. it will be set. Now then, Conolly. The

gentleman from Lake, Mr.'conolly, for what purpope do you

J. H. Conolly; ''Yes.. Since one ah.. House Joint Resolution

142 is taken out of the Agreed List, ah.. could I have the

same treatment of that? lt beats setting up another Committ e

Meeting by somebody else.u

Hon. W. Robert Blair: l'Well Execw you mean?''

J. H. Conolly: ''Well instead of trying to get Conservation

or somebody else ah.. Meeting. If you'd 1et me call a meeti g

of ah.. John Henzy Klein's Committee, I'd be more than glad

to do it.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: uWell, my inclination is that this would ..

Alright.. The place that this ah.. Resolution would be refer ed

would be to Conservatlon. 'Ah.. however the Chalrman il not#

on the Tloor. So, you can't ah.. have that situation for a

hearing tomorrow. Now, iT you'd rather wait and try to have

that arrénged for immediately after ad/ournment tomorrow,

we'll see if we can work that oùt. Otherwise, wefll ask...

we could have the gentleman from Cook, Mr. Juckett, handle i

Exec. Now, what does the gentleman from Lake Mr. Conoll) y

ah.. desire?''

J. H. Conolly: ''I think, since tbe meeting is already being

held under the ah.., it would be cobnvenient to have it done

the firs't thing tomorrow morning so they can handle tomor ow.''

Hon. Robert Blair: 'lAlright- ''

J. H. Conolly: ''I Just as soon have put in Exec.''

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243.

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright.. The gentleman from Cook, Mr.

Juckett, asks ah.. leave to suspend the provisions of Rule

17 so that this Resolution may also be heard ah.. tomorrow

ah.. at 10:00 olclock in Exec. Is there objection? Hearing

none, that ah.. ah.. Rule is suspended. The gentleman fro'm

Cook, Mr. Juckett, for what purpose do you rise?''

P. S. Juckett: ''We11, Mr. Speaker, I had an oblection to the

Dog Resolution. These Reso'lutions have, in the past, when

they were the fish and the tree and the other ones before th t

have always gone to Exec. And, would appreciate iT that

was taken out of the list and also sent to Executive.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright now, we're down to the 710,

House Resolution 710 . And ah . . , there has been objectionjk 'raised by a Member concerniflg aving that heard . And I#

have not called for the vote on the Agreed Resolutions yet.

So now, does the gentleman, that's the Chief Sponsor, Mr..

Pierce, have a comment?''

M. Pierce: ''Mr. Speaker, dbes that mean that a11 cat and

dog Bills go to the Executive Committee? I would like to ah .,

at the appropriate time, move to suspend ah.. Rule 53a for:

.the immediate consideration of an.adoptlon of ah.. this Hous

i Resolutlon.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Well now, wait a mlnute. You want to

take it out of the Agreèd.... You don't object to taking itI

out of the Agreed Resolutions, but you are going to object

to its going to Committee. Correct? I mean, you want

to move then ah.. to Euspend so you can have it heard now.

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244 ..

Is that right? Or do you want to have it heard in Exec.

tomorrow?o

D. M. Pierce: f'Oh! We'1l... Welll hear it in Exec.''

2on. W. Robert Blair: ''Okay.. Ah.. now, .the gentleman from

Cook, Mr. Juckett, asked leave to suspend the provislons of

Rule 17 so that that Resolution may also be heard in Exec.

tomorrow morning at 10:00. Is there objection? Hearing non ,

ah.. then we'll put that one in Exec. Are there any Agreed

R:solutions left to vote on? The gentleman from Cook, Mr.

H7dO.''

H. J. Hyde: ''Well Mr. Speaker, I regret to ah.. notice that,'.

apparently, the Agreed Resolution process has broken down

along with the Agreed B1ll ah.. process on Workmen's Compens =

tion. And next, I suppose, the Consent Calendar will be in

jeopardy. But, in any event, I now.move ah.. ah.. for 'âdop-

tion of those few Agreed Resolutions left, Mr. Speaker.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright ah.. Al1 those in favor of the

adoption-of the Agreed Resolutions say 'aye' opposed fno'# )

the 'ayes' have it and the Agreed Resolutions are adopted.

Are there further Resolutions? Oh: There are no further

'ones. Alright now, the gentle- .. There are a coupze of

requests here before we wind up. The gentleman Trom ah..

Cook, Mr. Duff, has a request.''

B. B. Duff: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. 1 request, and have talked

to the Leadership on b0th sides, that Ilouse Bill 4686 ah.. b

read on First Reading and moved to Second without reference

to Committee. The Bill is ah.. There were some errors

.. ' vk ' '' .e' x% ë. ''.G.;. l ' ' c s x E R A L A s s E M B t, v.

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245.

found by the Reference. Bureau in the drafting of the Code of

Corrections. And the Bill was brought to me and to Mr.# .

Londrigan, who are Members of the Council by. . they were

brought to us by the Council for the evaluation of criminal

defendants and we need to move it through ah. . as fast as

we can. They are merely errors.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright. . Ah.. does the gentleman have. leave ah.. to advance ah.. that Bill to the order of Second

Reading without reference to Committee? Hearing no objectio. #

then we will so advance that Bill. The gentleman from Cook,

Mr. Col... Phil Collins.''

P.W. Collins: ''AH.. Mr. Speaker, ah.. I ask leave to suspend

the provisions of Rule 17 so that ah. . Senate Bill ah.. 1569

may be heard in the House Committee on Electlons Tbursday

Morning at 9:00 A.M. in 212. I've talked to the Leadership

on both 'sides of the aisle.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Is there objection? No. Alright...

Ah.. thel, hearing none, the Bill wi11... the provisions of

Rule 17 will be suspended so that this Bill may be set for

hearing. No ah... Set for hearing. Thursday... Thursday

at 9:00 o'clock. 9:00 A.M. 'in Room 212. The gentleman from

Cook, ah.. Mr. Regner.''

D. Regner: ''Ah.. Mr. Speaker , Ladies and Gentlemen of the

House, I would Just like to announce that the Appropriations

Committee that was to meet this afternoon. . . - . .''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Wel1,' wait. . Wait.. Wait.. Wait... Wait

a minute. Now, let's back up. The Clerk . . The Clerk didnf'

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246

quite keep up there. On Duffts Bill, ah.. we advanced that

to Second without reference to Committee. Then, on the re-

quest of Mr. Col.lins/ we set that Election Code for hearing

on Thursday at 9:00 A.M. Leave was given for that purpose.

What's the number of the Bi11, Phil? 1569. Senate Bill l56 .

And now, we're to Mr. Regner for a re... for an announcement ''

D. J. Regner: ''Ah.. the House Appropriations Committee, that

' was to meet this afternoon, will meet tomorrow morning at

9;00 A.M. on the ah.. House Floor.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The gentleman from Cook, Mr. Shea.''

W S'hea: ''AH. . Mr. Speaker, ah.. House... or Senate Bi'll *

1318 ah.., I hope, we got straightened out. Originally,

they had collin's name on as a sponsor and like lt to be

listed with my name. And, Itm wondering if I could get that

Bill put on Second Reading without reference to Committee.

It's a four hundred page B1ll'ah.. Trom the Relerence Bureau

which corrects ah.. some of the items. Senate Bill 1318.

Irm asking if it can go to Second Reading without reference

to a Committee? Perhaps) it's not on the Calendar. It came

over from the Senate, but I don't know if it went to a Commi -

tee or not.''

Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Yes, the problem... That... That one

will take overnight. No, I know where it is. It's being

held because it's a non-exempt Bi11. And ah.., al1 Bills,

that come over from the Senate ah.. that are in the category

' of being non-exempt since that motion that was made to

table everything) ah.. we.. we are we think, they proba ly

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247.

copped the ones flying over ah.. ah.. at the same time. We

hope to get it resolved over night. And then, let's enter-' tain your. your request tomorrow.

''

G. W. Shea; ''Alright..''

Hon. Robert Blalr: 'tokay.. It was tabled? Oh yeah: It was ..

ThP Clerk's Office has checked on it. It was tabled.

Alright.. Ah.. The gentleman from Hyde, ah.. Clyde. or Cook

Mr . Hyde . ''

H. Hyde: ''AH.. Mr. Speaker, I now moke that the House stand

adlourned until the hour of 10:30 A.M. tomorrog morning.''

Pon. W. Robert Blair: ''A1l those in Tavor say 'aye' the oppos d

'no', the 'ayesf have it and the House stands adjourned.''

ADJOURNMENT AT 7:45 O'CLOCK P.M.

6/13/72MeS.

I

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