september 20 public meeting transcript - mbta ... microphone afterwards and register your comment or...

PUBLIC HEARING

Forest Hills Bus Canopy ProjectMassachusetts Bay Transit Authority

Tuesday, September 20, 2016

APPEARANCES:

James Kersten, MassDOT

Tom Rovero, Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority

Roger Gagnier, AECOM

George Katsoufis, AECOM

Tim VonAschwege, AECOM

CAMBRIDGE TRANSCRIPTIONS 675 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA 02139 (617) 547 - 5690 www.ctran.com

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Public Hearing

P R O C E E D I N G S

JIM KERSTEN: Hi. Good evening, everybody.

AUDIENCE: Good evening.

JIM KERSTEN: My name is Jim Kersten. I do

legislative and community affairs. I work for MassDOT, and

I just want to welcome you all today, and say thank you

very much for coming out.

We’re pretty excited to present the 30 percent

design for the upper busway, the 30 percent design for the

canopy, and we really look forward to hearing all of your

comments after the presentation. So if you feel free, I

know there was a sign-in sheet to speak up front, but you

know, if you didn’t sign up, please feel free to come up to

the microphone afterwards and register your comment or

question. All we’d ask is that you please state your name

so we can record everything and evaluate all the comments

later on.

I would like to recognize Tad Read from the BRA,

who has been very helpful throughout this whole process.

And I’m going to introduce Tom Rovero. He is the MBTA

project manager, and then he’s going to introduce the

design team. So thank you -- thanks again for coming.

TOM ROVERO: Thank you, Jim. I’m Tom Rovero,

MBTA Project Manager. You’ve most likely seen me at some

of the previous Casey presentations. And we’re here

CAMBRIDGE TRANSCRIPTIONS SEPTEMBER 20, 2016

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tonight to present the 30 percent upper busway canopy

design. And our design consultant is AECOM, and their team

is sitting to my right. And if you gentleman could

introduce yourselves?

ROGER GAGNIER: My name is Roger Gagnier. I’m

the Project Manager for AECOM.

GEORGE KATSOUFIS: George Katsoufis. I’m an

architect for AECOM.

TIM VONAUSCHWEGE: And I’m Tim VonAschwege, a

designer with AECOM.

TOM ROVERO: Last October, at about this same

time, when the existing canopy was scheduled to be

demolished, they published a rendering of the initial

design concept for the upper busway canopy in some of the

Forest Hills papers. And at the time, there was much in

the way of public comment, and we were contacted by the

Boston Redevelopment Authority, and we took it upon

ourselves to try and refine the design to come up with a

more functional canopy that was more fitting for the -- for

a station such as Forest Hills.

As part of the Casey contract, they are, of

course, constructing the extended upper busway. Also,

under the existing busway is the existing tunnel wall

structure. Those are being utilized as the foundation

support points for the canopy, and they help inform its


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general layout. So I’d like to turn it over to the AECOM

team to help present the concept.

ROGER GAGNIER: Thanks, Tom. I just want to

orientate everyone. I’m sure you have a better

understanding of the area than I do. Washington Street is

here, Hyde Park Ave. This area is the existing canopy that

was removed.

We -- it was removed to the expansion joint in

the roof itself. This way it could be taken away cleanly.

The intent is we’ll have a -- like a storefront glass

placed in front of that when we’re done.

Let me take a step back here. I’m going -- the

next picture is you’re basically in your car here, looking

back at the canopy. This is all pictures of what was, and

this has all been removed. The clock tower to the left --

AUDIENCE: (Indiscernible).

ROGER GAGNIER: And this is what’s there today.

You know, you’ve got a basic open parking lot where the

buses are coming through. Just the short time I was out

front, there are problems with this arrangement, both from

weather perspective and in Bus Operations. And hopefully

laying out the canopy the way it is will help alleviate a

lot of those issues.

So basically, we heard your comments, like Tom

said, about the original 30 percent. And with the MBTA’s


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direction, we’ve went -- we’ve gone forward to try to

change the appearance, change the function, make it more

aesthetically pleasing. All of these terms are

architectural terms that I’m going to allow my architect

lead to take the reins, Tim VonAschwege.

TIM VONASCHWEGE: Good evening. You’re -- you

have a number of bulleted items here. You want me to cover

all of those? Let’s see. We got to the public comments.

We were hearing that the new station canopy should be

elegant, attractive, durable, all of those strong items.

In harmony with the station, provide safe access to and

from the buses, offer weather protection, and so forth.

In harmony with the station might be a good place

to begin talking just a bit about the architecture of what

the new intent is here. Now, let’s see if I can figure out

how to make this work. Okay.

The existing station -- we’ll talk about this in

a minute. The existing station is, as we see it, a very

iconic, strong architectural state from the mid-80’s.

Cambridge 7 did a quite excellent job of accommodating some

of the forms that they saw in the neighborhood. I think

it’s probably served quite well as a major center in the

neighborhood, and of course is heavily used.

We -- when we first started looking at the

architecture of that station and thinking about how to


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accommodate a new canopy, we thought about the triangular

hip roof, gable roof forms that you see there, very

repetitive, a strong idea visually. We look at a number of

new ways of translating that, including tensile structures

that would repeat much of the triangular geometry that you

see in the existing station.

And then in various further discussions, we came

up with what we felt was something that would not be a

repetition of the existing station, as you saw in that

previous photo. And in this one, for instance, where you

see all of those repetitive hip roofs, we said to repeat

that would not be really the correct thing to do, 30 years

later.

And so we looked at a new form, which was a much

lighter visual structure. You’ve seen some images when you

came into the all here tonight, curved form that was sort

of all-embracing, lower than the existing -- much lower

than the existing -- about 12 feet lower than the roofs

that were there originally, party to minimize some of the

visual impacts on the surrounding neighborhood, but also to

provide good cover for the buses.

Now in -- this new canopy will be accommodating

six articulated buses, as well as through lanes for each

bus, and layover lanes. So it’s somewhat larger than the

original canopy, and of course it’s been slid more


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Public Hearing

easterly, southeasterly than the original, which was mostly

constrained by the structure that was there, both on the

existing rail tunnel, but also new structures that are

currently being built.

So here you see a new island -- whoops, sorry. I

draw with my hands. I don’t draw with tools as I should.

But let’s see -- I’m trying to get -- I’m trying to get --

AUDIENCE: -- pointer.

TIM VONASCHWEGE: Yeah, the pointer. It’s the

lower button. There we go.

ROGER GAGNIER: The pointer is --

TIM VONASCHWEGE: Yep. So here is a new -- the

new busway, an outer busway which accommodates three

articulateds, an inner busway, also three, with this island

boarding platform. And then of course, all of this set

back from Washington Street is -- will be landscaped and

slightly bermed in this area to screen the buses somewhat

from the adjacent neighborhood.

All of this, as I go through the slides, this is

the previous canopy location, the new canopy location. And

you can see, it’s longer, and it has a discreet connection,

a flat roof -- low, flat roof connection to the main

station building here, and then to both of these boarding

platforms.

The overall form is that of a low vault, fairly


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light visually, fairly light structure. Tube frame,

roughly 16-inch diameter. And as it rises up to form the

rough, these curved forms sort of part ways, let’s say, and

provide the opportunity for skylights at each of these

points, so that during the day all of this underside will

be lit, natural light.

The next few images will give you some sense of

the connection here, from the existing station pedestrian

connection, to the main canopy. And here you see the

slight curvature, very shallow, relatively shallow here,

with the skylights, and exit, essentially, for buses

heading southbound on Washington or northbound on

Washington. I say south and north. I know you use

probably different terminology than I do, but cardinal

points are -- my cardinal points might be a bit off.

This is a section through the canopy and the

station. Right here, you see the tunnel that accommodates

the northeast corridor, and the new structure that’s going

up right now, which will accommodate surface parking, and

then the canopy above. The canopy is designed fairly low,

so it has a low profile toward Hyde Park Ave., and rises up

to about 22 feet at this point, some 11 or 12 feet lower

than the existing roof forms on the station.

This also will be bus berthing area here. So

this cantilever gives us good protection for those buses,


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Public Hearing

and of course all of this inner rough form gives much

excellent protection for the buses and the users inside.

This is an image that few people will see, but we

put it in here to get another sense of how the buses move

through the canopy, and including, like, on the south,

those -- these buses can move through what is the only

exception to the structure, which is this truss here that

supports two frame bays. Also, the brick wall that you see

here is -- will remain along the rail tunnel. This is

another view that shows the main station, the flat room

connecting passengers to the new bus canopy, and then the

canopy itself.

From the west end -- am I correct on that? The

west -- southwest end, you’ll see buses aligned here. This

is one articulated at the furthest most berth, more on this

side. So people will be able to arrive under cover from --

for the full length of the canopy, coming to or from the

station.

Another view from the outer berths -- berthing of

buses. In addition to the main canopy, there will be these

wind protective structures, seating for all along this

fence, and a fence between the island platform and the

outer platform, just to prevent accidents with passengers

moving across from one platform to the other. You have to

go to the station end to cross between platforms. And you


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Public Hearing

see also, above the layout and articulation, skylights that

will bring natural light into the station during the day.

More details, close up. George, am I missing

anything?

We have a number of things that will be common to

all of the bus berths, which is signage. We’re looking --

there will be signage at each berth, variable message signs

along this line. Also, closed circuit TV, cameras, one at

each of these bus berths, so six in total. And then a

shelter that you see here for each bus berth, as well as

seating scattered along the busway and the berthing.

Ah, here we are, plan. This is sort of to sum up

what you just maybe saw in the photos. But here is the

entrance, exit to the station along the main access, the

connecting flat roof here. This -- and then you can move

from that point, across to the satellite berths, or to

these berths here. Each of these are articulated bus,

roughly one and a half times as long as the typical street

buses. But you have them here now.

The structure -- and you can sort of see the

layout of the structure at each bay, 30-foot bays,

skylights. And then at each of these areas, there’s -- a

little hard to see in this scale, but you can see a shelter

here, here, here, and same on this side.

So that’s the overall layout of the canopy. I


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guess we’ll take questions at some point. Are there --

okay. You’re right. One more here.

These are examples of the type of shelters that

we would see inside and under the canopy, as well as the

type of cable tensile fence line that you would see between

the -- or behind the satellite berth and the -- or I should

say the island berths and the main -- and the main row. So

with that, Jim?

AUDIENCE: I have a question this gentleman --

JIM KERSTEN: We’ll -- we’re almost done. We’ll

take questions right at the end, okay.

AUDIENCE: Okay.

JIM KERSTEN: Thanks for your patience. So as

this process has been going forward, the Highway

Administrator has been working with the General Manger of

the T, because we know how important, you know, the canopy

is, you know, to the neighborhood and to the station. So

we’re really pushing our designers as fast and as hard as

we can to get this design completed.

And so here is our scheduled, about where we are.

So tonight, we are at the 30 percent design community

meeting. Sometime in early November, probably the first

week in November, we’re planning on presenting the 60

percent design. And in early 2017, we’re going to have a

final design. And at any time, feel free to call or email


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Public Hearing

me your comments. I’ll make sure they’re included. And we

really look forward to hearing your comments.

And with that, I’m going to leave this up here so

you can have my email or Tom’s email. And I’m just going

to open up the -- you know, the opportunity to hear your

comments.

ALICE ALEXANDER: Well, I just had a --

JIM KERSTEN: If you could just come up to the

microphone and then state your name, you know, so we can

have it properly recorded. Thank you very much.

ALICE ALEXANDER: Yes. Alice Alexander, and I

live on Custer Street, about a half-mile north of the

station. So especially on the weekends, I might transfer

from the train, the orange line to the bus, especially,

particularly in bad weather when it’s very cold.

So my question is this, to the gentleman who

spoke about the design, it -- will there be a sightline

from the station proper to where the 39 bus pulls in? And

my -- and the reason for this is currently, yes, you have

to walk out of the station to get on the bus, but you can

wait actually inside the station if it’s very cold, for

example. I see you have wind shelters, but sometimes it’s

nice to stay in the station until the bus arrives. So

that’s my question, will there be a sightline?

TIM VONASCHWEGE: Is it on? Okay. Well, the 39


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bus, its plan will be at the upper -- at this new station.

So access will be fairly simple.

ALICE ALEXANDER: Yeah.

TIM VONASCHWEGE: I don’t know that the actual

berthing numbers arrangements have been worked out yet.

That’s a pretty important route, so my guess it is -- since

it handles a lot of traffic, it’ll be one of the closest

berths to the station.

ALICE ALEXANDER: Oh, okay.

TIM VONASCHWEGE: Tom, you might say some more.

TOM ROVERO: Well, I would point out that there’s

also a sign mounted near the Mike’s Doughnuts that notifies

when certain routes --


TOM ROVERO: -- are due to disembark at the

canopy.


TOM ROVERO: So that would allow you to stay

inside, out of the wind.

ALICE ALEXANDER: Oh, okay. Yeah.

TOM ROVERO: And then as you see your route come

up, head out to the busway --

ALICE ALEXANDER: Yeah, okay. That’s --

TOM ROVERO: -- and it’s covered with generous

cantilevers, and will have the windscreens. So I think


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Public Hearing

there will be a high degree of protection.

ALICE ALEXANDER: Right. Thank you.

JIM KERSTEN: Thank you very much.

JESSICA MINK: Since I signed up first, I’ll grab

the mic. My name is Jessica Mink. I live in Roslindale,

south of the station, but I bike past it on Washington

Street or Hyde Park Ave. every day, to and from work.

And one of the things that I see is since the

canopy got moved further east, or down in this picture,

there’s a huge amount of green space. And one of the

problems we have right now along Washington Street is

problems with access to the arboretum side, so the north

side, the upper side here, which is the west side, how the

-- how it tapers down like that. And it just feels like

something could be done to keep the path wider, all the way

down to Ukraine Way on the west side of Washington Street.

I think that’s the most important thing I see.

It’s nice to see every -- the whole canopy moved

south, and there’s parking underneath the busway it looks

like, so that’s good. But I think that’s the most

important part to me is to make sure that -- it looks -- I

mean, I was worried. The reason I came is to make sure

everything is there. And the stuff that was promised is

all there, so I’m happy about that part. But I’d like to

see if more can be done --


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JIM KERSTEN: Well, what you’re actually

referring to is actually under -- and this image here --

JESSICA MINK: Yeah, I know --

JIM KERSTEN: -- this is under the Arborway

contract, that’s currently under construction now.

JESSICA MINK: Yeah -- so I know that. So it’s

just -- that part’s not under construction yet, so I’m just

hoping that anybody who is involved with that who is here

sees that now that this busway plan is going ahead well,

they have a lot more space to work with than they knew for

sure. Because one of the things that got put off was we’ll

wait and see how the busway canopy comes out, because it’s

all cantilevered, pretty much, from the track side, or the

Hyde Park Ave. side, toward the Washington Street side,

there’s a lot more space, because there’s no landing of the

canopy on the Washington Street side, which would have

eaten into some of the open space and constricted what they

could do with Washington Street.

So I’m just saying because of this design, we’re

free to do more stuff there, and I want everybody to take

that back to those guys, too.

JIM KERSTEN: Sure.

JESSICA MINK: But I’m pretty happy with the

canopy design itself. I’m wondering about wind-breaking on

-- going -- I mean, since I do take the 34 bus at times,


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I’m wondering about wind-breaking on the long walk out.

It’s all pretty open.

JIM KERSTEN: Here?

JESSICA MINK: Yeah. And I just sort of think

it’s going to be -- could be pretty awful in bad weather

because it’s not really very wide. Wind will blow the rain

right in, and snow, and whatever else.

JIM KERSTEN: All right. Thank you very much.

TOM ROVERO: Could I just elaborate that the

lower canopy that you exit the station under, because it’s

lower it will actually provide a slightly higher degree of

protection. And then I believe the curved aspect of the

main canopy, along with the windbreaks that are

incorporated, and the fact that it’s lower on the side

facing the lower parking lot, you know, our intent is to

provide as much wind and wind-driven participation shelter

as possible.

VICKIE HENRY: Hi, my name is Vickie Henry, and I

take the 39 and the 38, and I live over in the Moss Hill

area. So I had a few questions.

In the next design, it would be really helpful if

you showed this thing full of buses, because it really

doesn’t look like you’re going to get three rows of buses

in each one of those -- in the inner and outer -- two, I

see. But right now, what happens is somebody pulls into


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Public Hearing

the busway, and parks, and takes their break, and then the

other buses can’t get by. That happens daily.

JIM KERSTEN: Sure.

VICKIE HENRY: And it doesn’t -- unless the lower

busway is the one that’s taking that left-hand turn, the --

you -- those buses won’t fit. Like mathematically, there’s

no way a bus on the upper part of that is going to be able

to take that left. There’s too much --

TOM ROVERO: That has the six right there,

though.

VICKIE HENRY: So it really doesn’t matter which

bus line is where in these drawings.

TOM ROVERO: If you go back to the --

VICKIE HENRY: Yeah, if buses are where the green

part is, they might be able to make that left-hand turn.

But if the buses are in the next part over, they can’t make

that left. So I think people are going to really want to

see where the routes are, because that means you’ve got the

39 in a less protected area.

TOM ROVERO: Well, I can assure you that when --

under the Casey contract, the expanded upper busway was

designed that they utilize the vehicle templates for both

the 60-foot articulated and the 40-foot buses to ensure

that they could make either the right-hand turn or the

left-hand turn onto Washington.


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Public Hearing

VICKIE HENRY: Yeah. I want to see the buses.

Because I grew up in Michigan, where they were building a

bridge where you would build from both sides and meet in

the middle. And we’re -- my mom was like, that’s not going

to meet in the middle, and my dad laughed at her. And then

three months later, they were like, oh, sorry. It’s not

going to meet in the middle. So there’s --

TOM ROVERO: Well, we’ll -- at the next time

we’ll -- I’ll -- we’ll make note that we’ll have a slide on

that --

VICKIE HENRY: I mean, I don’t -- I mean it in

the nicest possible way, but where the 39 is right now,

there’s a massive drainage problem, and then there were

signs saying that we’re going to fix the problem, and it

was very exciting. And then you would think that to fix

the drainage problem you would build a ditch, but they

didn’t. They built a raised area, which just provided an

island for us to try to cross.

So you guys all seem really, really nice, but got

to -- that just doesn’t look like --

JIM KERSTEN: No, we’ll definitely -- we can

definitely have that provided --

VICKIE HENRY: So one -- so this woman here

asked. So the 39 and the 38 are definitely both leaving

from that upper busway? Because right now, when you come


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Public Hearing

out of the turnstile you’ve got to make a guess based on

that board, and luck, and knowing the schedules. And you -

- if you choose wrong, you’re really sad.

TOM ROVERO: The 39 is slated to be relocated to

the area of the upper busway later this fall.

VICKIE HENRY: Yay.

TOM ROVERO: And at the 60 percent, we will have

several slides that incorporate the turn radiuses, so

people can see how it was calculated.

VICKIE HENRY: Excellent.

JIM KERSTEN: And just so we can kind of stay a

little focused here, we can definitely address that. You

can email me at any time.

VICKIE HENRY: Yeah, I will.

JIM KERSTEN: But you know, the point of tonight

is really to talk about the canopy, because the actual

platform that we’re talking about here, that’s actually

under the Casey contract. And so these are two separate

kind of bubbles right now, so.

VICKIE HENRY: Well, so my next question is

related to the canopy. It’s two quick questions.

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah.

VICKIE HENRY: One is where is nine feet of snow

going to go? Because I think that a lot of us think that

winter from the year before last is not going to be


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Public Hearing

atypical, and that was a challenge for the T, and I worry

about the snow is just going to slide.

JIM KERSTEN: Well, first of all, I hope you’re

wrong, personally, but I’ll let them discuss the snow.

VICKIE HENRY: Yeah, but we’ve got to plan for

that. And right now, it looks like it’s just going to

slide into those outer bus things, and I -- that doesn’t

seem workable. I mean, you don’t have to answer it, but I

would -- you need an answer that --

JIM KERSTEN: Well, I think -- I mean, it’s

obviously something that we take into consideration when

design stuff --

VICKIE HENRY: Right.

JIM KERSTEN: -- especially in the northeast. So

I think, you know -- can one of you --

ROGER GAGNIER: The canopy itself is designed to

support the appropriate amount of snow in this area. You

are correct, it’s -- an arched shape like that is going to,

when the snow starts melting, go to the outside. Each of

these areas along this edge and along that edge will have a

gutter system, that if it does just melt in a gradual pace,

it will -- the water will be collected and removed.

Is there a possibility of major snow falling?

Yeah, we’re in New England. I believe that’s probably

going to happen. But if it fell off over here, you have


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the MBTA plowing that area. If it fell off over here, it’s

in the parking lot area below or in that area. That would

have to be removed physically once it fell.

VICKIE HENRY: Okay.

ROGER GAGNIER: But the intent would be to -- we

have a gutter system in place in our design to capture slow

melting snow.

VICKIE HENRY: Right.

ROGER GAGNIER: Now if there is a quick melting

and the snow starts sliding, yeah, some of it is going to

fall off.

VICKIE HENRY: Yeah. Well, I mean it’s just

because -- again, where the 39 is now, like, it just gets

plowed, and then you just -- we’re scrambling over piles

and piles of snow.

ROGER GAGNIER: What the design does accommodate

is over here, the bus is completely covered. It’s not like

the snow is going to fall on half of the bus, and then

become an issue from the vehicle driving away. At least

the bus itself could park underneath the canopy, pick up

the pedestrians, and move along.

VICKIE HENRY: Okay. Last quick question --

JIM KERSTEN: Okay. Hang on one second. I’m

sorry. If -- does -- if anyone has a Nissan Altima, it’s

blocking someone in.


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AUDIENCE: (Indiscernible).

JIM KERSTEN: Nissan Altima.

AUDIENCE: Okay, thank you.

JIM KERSTEN: All right. Thank you. Sorry about

that.

VICKIE HENRY: This may be a separate contract,

but I was wondering where the cab stand is going to end up.

Because right now, particularly because the 38 doesn’t run

that often, like, if you have a foot injury, walking to the

cab stand is excruciating. And I can’t tell how that’s

going to integrate here.

TOM ROVERO: I believe the cab stand will be

relocated once the 39 moves to the upper busway. The cab

stand will move over to the area where the 39 used to be,

and that’s where it will be located in the final condition.

So if you’re catching a cab, you would head in the opposite

direction from where you would catch a bus.

VICKIE HENRY: Thank you.

PAT ZURKEY: My name is Pat Zurkey, and I live in

Roslindale, and I take any bus I can catch that goes down

Washington Street, and then walk the last half-mile to my

house. I have a long list of questions, and I’m certain

that some of them have to do with the Arborway contract and

only some of them have to do with the canopy contract.

But I was glad to hear Jim say that the outer --


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the top busway in that slide, the canopy will extend over

the driving lane far enough to cover the entire bus. It

was not possible to tell that from your drawings. You only

drew buses in the inner, and so I wondered how much of the

bus would be protected by that outer canopy.

I also wondered how wide the sidewalks for the

platforms are going to be.

JIM KERSTEN: Twelve feet.

PAT ZURKEY: Twelve feet. And will 12 -- is that

12 feet from edge to edge, or is that 12 feet for the

people waiting on this side of the wind barrier for this

bus? So that’s 12 feet from that fence.

TOM ROVERO: This is 12 feet, from here to here.

JIM KERSTEN: So from the fence to the curb is 12

feet.

PAT ZURKEY: Okay. Okay.

GEORGE KATSOUFIS: -- to the curb is nine feet.

JIM KERSTEN: So it’s nine feet from the face of

that structure -- yeah, from the --

PAT ZURKEY: Okay.

JIM KERSTEN: -- to the curb is nine feet.

PAT ZURKEY: And that’s much wider than the

existing temporary busway. Excuse me. I don’t know if you

know how long the platforms are going to be. It’s not

contract, I gather, but you know how long the canopy will


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be.

(Simultaneous speech.)

JIM KERSTEN: About 300 feet he said.

PAT ZURKEY: Okay.

JIM KERSTEN: So if you can just use the

microphone, guys, so -- thanks.

PAT ZURKEY: Okay.

JIM KERSTEN: Or you can just tell me the

answers. I can seem smart.

PAT ZURKEY: Okay. Then how wide will that

sidewalk be, leading people to the canopy, coming out of

the station? How big a covered area will they have to all

come out of the station and then sort themselves out to

their own buses?

GEORGE KATSOUFIS: This one here, Madam?

PAT ZURKEY: Yes.

GEORGE KATSOUFIS: This is -- this is 12 feet as

well.

PAT ZURKEY: Okay.

GEORGE KATSOUFIS: And it’s fully covered.

PAT ZURKEY: That’s the lower flat --

JIM KERSTEN: Yes.

PAT ZURKEY: --canopy? Okay. And you said how

many berths will there be on each of those 300 feet

platforms?


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JIM KERSTEN: There’s three on each, so a total

of six.

PAT ZURKEY: A total of six.

JIM KERSTEN: So you see here -- yeah, so you can

see them, one, two, three, lined up there, and then on top,

one, two, three.

PAT ZURKEY: Mm-hm.

JIM KERSTEN: So --

PAT ZURKEY: So the MBTA is going to arrange the

bus schedules so that they’ll always only be one bus in a

berth, and we won’t have the problem that was mentioned

earlier of a bus coming in, and having -- not having a

place to go, blocking the next bus sitting out on the

street, which we have on a daily basis now?

JIM KERSTEN: I mean, I know Bus Operations has

been very involved in this, but I don’t know. Tom, do you

want to say --

TOM ROVERO: These are going to be combined bus

berths. One of the slide renderings shows a typical sign,

and it may list more than one route, but there would only

be one bus at that berth at any one time. They come in

sequentially. When one bus leaves, the next bus at that

berth would come in.

PAT ZURKEY: And they’re working on the magic

formula to clear up traffic in Roslindale Square so that


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they can actually come in sequentially, right?

TOM ROVERO: That would be a magic formula, yes.

PAT ZURKEY: I know. I know. The variable

message signs that you mentioned, what are they going to

say?

TOM ROVERO: Well, in addition to the sign that’s

inside by the Mike’s Doughnuts, which actually says when a

certain route is due to stop at the station, much as when

you’re waiting on a transit platform for Orange Line or Red

Line, the signs out under the canopy would list buses that

are coming in, it would list any special announcements.

You know, it would be the typical type of messaging that we

have on the VMS signage.

PAT ZURKEY: So there’s going to be a sign

dedicated to each of the berths?

TOM ROVERO: I believe we have a VMS sign at each

busway, and I have to confirm if we have two based on the

length of the canopy.

PAT ZURKEY: Since there are three berths, it

might be nice to have, you know, the berth that’s dedicated

to what -- 40, 50, 51, only give you messages for 40, 50,

51, or whichever -- however they’re --

TOM ROVERO: Yeah. I believe those VMS signs are

interconnected and might display similar information,

irregardless of which bus median you’re on, you know. It’s


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the sign that’s inside by the Mike’s Doughnuts that gives

the specific route information.

PAT ZURKEY: I know. But when I’m out, 300 feet

away from that sign, and something has happened, and the

bus that I thought was coming in 12 minutes has now been

delayed for 24, I won’t know that unless it tells me

outside.

GEORGE KATSOUFIS: If I can add something? Our

design is exactly at that point where we are trying to

figure this out with the operations, and they have some

great ideas. We’re asking the questions where should we

put the signs. They have, you know, ideas on how to berth

to bus, how they come in sequence.

PAT ZURKEY: Mm-hm.

GEORGE KATSOUFIS: In their mind, they want

flexibility in the system to address issues like the one

you just mentioned. So we can make a promise that in the

next presentation, in a month, we will bring more

information on that, where you can see some of what you’re

asking. You can visually see where these signs are and

what they may say.

PAT ZURKEY: Thank you. One last question. How

many people will fit in one of those shelters?

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah, I mean, they haven’t been

designed yet. They still -- I mean, we’ll -- we can, you


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know, keep that as a note. And obviously, you know, we’re

going to want them to be as -- you know, to house as many

people as possible. But we’ll note that, and once we get

an answer to it, I can definitely present it to you.

PAT ZURKEY: Great. Because the temporary

shelters that are there now obviously only hold about

three people sitting, and then a few more packed in

standing. But they’re not adequate to the number of people

waiting for the buses.

JIM KERSTEN: Okay. Well, thank you very much

for your comments. Anyone else would like to come up and

question, comment? Yeah, sir.

GEORGE ZEE: I have a couple of questions.

JIM KERSTEN: If you could just -- sure --

GEORGE ZEE: I am George Zee.

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah, if you could just say that in

the microphone, so --

GEORGE ZEE: I’m George Zee.

JIM KERSTEN: I like that --

GEORGE ZEE: Jamaica Plain Central. A couple of

things. I like the canopy, but I see a lot of opportunity

for advertising, which you don’t show on your renderings.

And under the current Baker administration, there isn’t an

inch of MBTA property that he won’t sell. I can see

projections, wrap around all those things. I think you


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should be more realistic about putting what the

advertisings are going to be, where they’re going to be.

Secondly, on the canopy or under the deck, are

there going to be portals that will pump heated air into

the bus while it’s waiting, so it’s not idling? I know

that can exist. Or where there -- where the overflow is,

and they definitely are waiting for a long time, you have

to keep them warm, do you have to idle them?

Third, the canopy. Can you walk on it? Can

workers walk on it? Will it hold them? Obviously,

thinking 25 years from now, they’re going to have to do

something, right.

Fourth, looking 25 to 50 years into the future,

which the T should be doing, is the deck strong enough to

hold a full trolley set, or street car, as I should say, or

couple? How easy is it to convert, as it probably will,

like almost all other cities are doing, to street car use?

And finally, the canopy is positioned so that

when some disabled person gets off that can walk, it’s a

huge walk to get to the tracks -- to get to the platforms

downstairs, right. Can there be a schedule of some sort of

a jitney, or can all buses stop at the new head house

before entering that, so you can get down into the orange

line? It’s really a long walk, and it’s -- you’ve made it

even longer, so that’s some of my suggestions.


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JIM KERSTEN: Thank you, sir. Yeah, we’ll

definitely take a look into all that and work with Bus

Operations to see if that’s, you know, that’s possible, so

GEORGE ZEE: Access.

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah, I know -- I know we have --

GEORGE ZEE: What do people think about --

VICKIE HENRY: Yeah. No, it’s a really long walk

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah.

VICKIE HENRY: -- able to walk --

GEORGE ZEE: I can’t walk that far.

VICKIE HENRY: Yeah.

JIM KERSTEN: All right. Mr. Doherty?

BERNARD DOHERTY: Yes. Hi, how you do? Jim, I

spoke to you earlier when I came in, and I was concerned

about the fact that I couldn’t find any rendering on the

webpages or anything else for this, and you advised me

that, as it states right there, literally you did this

today, September 20, 2016, which causes me to wonder if you

didn’t have this completed today, would we have cancelled

this meeting. Because without a rendering like this, it

makes it impossible for us to visualize what you’re

presenting.

A few of the women who came up here this evening


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asked some questions with regard to dimensions, and they --

you know, it would be nice if we could see those dimensions

in these renderings. So that’s a concern. I hope that in

the future when we go to 60 percent design, the people in

this room who have come out to express their interest in

this get an opportunity to visualize what you’re

presenting.

And I think -- and as they say, a picture is

worth 1,000 words. So that would be something I would

strongly advocate for, that if you are going to have a

community meeting, that at least a week -- at least a week,

possibly two weeks before you actually have the meeting,

you’re able to present to the people what you’re going to

be presenting to them in a visual form here.

I have to say, the canopy design looks rather

nice. I mean, I’m not opposed to it. But I have to see a

lot more about it.

However, what I’m more concerned with is the --

as talked on briefly -- was the area up in front here,

where we have the raised area there, because I like on

Asticou Road, Martinwood, South Street, right across the

street. I’m also a member of the Jamaica Plain

Neighborhood Counsel. So we are very interested in what’s

happening here.

But what we are concerned with is that where


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you’ve got the little triangle there, where buses go north

and south, okay, for lack of a better direction, is there

some sort of wall structure there that raises that, so the

lights don’t go into the community while the buses are

exiting? The berm area, of course, that’s more of an area

where you can do very nice plantings and other type stuff.

But it also reduces the impact on the surrounding community

with regard to noise and other pollution that comes into

the area.

So those are the things that I’m most concerned

about as a resident of (indiscernible) with South Street,

that we’d like to see more of that. And too, that with

regard to what I said earlier, Jim, that we get the

information earlier so people have an opportunity when they

come here to know what’s being presented already, hear

additional things. You know, they’re not just dealing with

the rudiments of it. They’re dealing now with what’s

actually going to make it work.

So I would hope that in the future that can be

accommodated, and the community can be made, you know, more

aware of what’s happening with regard to this process.

Thank you.

TOM ROVERO: We are in the process of posting a

webpage dedicated to the upper busway canopy. And as

design renderings become available, we’ll post them up


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there. And we’ll certainly get out ahead of the 60 percent

community meeting, and have it posted prior to that.

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: Hi, Catherine Deputod

(phonetic). I’m in Woodbourne part of Forest Hills

neighborhood. And my questions are -- well, I have a

comment first, which is the covered walkway from the

station --

JIM KERSTEN: The flat roof?

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: Yeah. If you go back to the

photo with the side view of that. Well, no. The other

one. The earlier -- it was a drawing, I guess. I looks --

that one.

It looks slapped on. It doesn’t look integrated,

and it doesn’t look elegant to my eye. I don’t know what

other people think. But the level of it, where it’s much

lower than where the old canopy ends, I don’t understand

that. So that’s my comment about the access walkway. I

don’t know if you want to answer that, but --

GEORGE KATSOUFIS: -- the same concern. We’re

trying to figure out how high is too high and how low is

too low. In this rendering, it looks a little lower than

we would like.

If you look to the left, where the canopy meets

the existing structure, we don’t want to touch the

structure. We don’t relate, you know, we don’t want to


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extend the existing structure. So we’re trying to

establish this balance ourselves, and not have, like, a

nine and a half, 10-foot canopy, but something a little

taller.

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: And is there light coming

through from -- natural light coming through that canopy?

TIM VONASCHWEGE: Not on the flat roof.

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: Uh-huh. It looks kind of

depressing for both those reasons. So that’s my comment on

that. My other comment -- question -- I have a question

which is how much does this cost? Is it 7 to 10,000?

That’s what I heard was the estimate.


JIM KERSTEN: Right now --

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: -- thousand. I mean -- I

mean --

JIM KERSTEN: Right now there’s still a

preliminary design --

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: -- million.

JIM KERSTEN: -- and we haven’t done a cost

estimate on it yet. The design still is evolving. It’s

being worked on. And I know we’re also going to be doing

kind of a third party cost estimate on it as well. And

once that’s -- you know, once we have that, we can

definitely present that. But right now, I don’t have an


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accurate number to tell you.

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: -- no idea?

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah.

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: Okay. And -- well, maybe the

next question is moot. Oh, I did have another question,

which is this is the second version. So there’s already

been a 30 percent design with another canopy, is that

right? How much does it cost for each revision?

JIM KERSTEN: It wasn’t -- it was a conceptual

drawing. It wasn’t a 30 percent design.

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: Oh, okay. So there’s only

one charge for the design? It isn’t a double charge, is

that right?

TOM ROVERO: The previous design concept was not

well received. We therefore met with the BRA several times

to explore some options, and that’s why we’re coming out

with this 30 percent concept to present to the public.

It’s far better aesthetic. It has --

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: No, I know --

TOM ROVERO: -- broader coverage --

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: -- I’m just curious if there

was -- if there were two charges --

JIM KERSTEN: It was a very, very preliminary

design. I mean, I’m sure there was some cost to it. I

don’t know what that is.


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CATHERINE DEPUTOD: Okay.

JIM KERSTEN: But you know, that type of thing,

you know, it does happen from time to time. But at the

end, we’re going to have a much, you know, much stronger,

better product based on, you know, a lot of the comments

that we received, so --

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: Right. No, I’m just

wondering about a figure, that’s all.

JIM KERSTEN: All right.

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: And my understanding is

whether it’s 5 million, or 7 million, or 10 million, or 12

million, we still don’t know where the money is coming

from, is that right?

JIM KERSTEN: Right.

CATHERINE DEPUTOD: Okay. Thank you.

JIM KERSTEN: Thank you. Sir?

AUDIENCE: I like the canopy design. It’s

pleasing to the eye. My question is more on the design of

the curb cuts I’m looking at, especially -- it looks like

it’s to separate pedestrians and bicycles. If you can go

back to eight, or on this one, up on the top left where the

buses enter. Yeah, right up there.

It’s an interesting angle you’ve got there. It

looks like for normal five foot long bicycles it’ll work

great. I myself have an eight and a half foot long


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bicycle. I know a lot of people who carry their small

children along this path, and it looks like a tough angle

to negotiate and then turn without running into pedestrians

in order to straighten your bicycle back out.

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah. If you want -- I mean, this

-- the element you’re talking about is under the Arborway

contract. That’s --

AUDIENCE: Okay.

JIM KERSTEN: -- under construction now. I don’t

know the exact specifics on it.

AUDIENCE: Yeah.

JIM KERSTEN: But I can -- you know, shoot me an

email. We’ll definitely get you all the answers you want,

so.

AUDIENCE: Okay, great. Thank you.

JIM KERSTEN: Thanks.

MARK TEDROW: Good evening. My name is Mark

Tedrow (phonetic). I live in Roslindale. A couple

questions here. Is there a construction timeline?

JIM KERSTEN: Not yet. We’re really focusing on

the design, and then we want to evaluate and see, you know,

how we can, you know, get this done as fast and, you know,

as possible, so.

MARK TEDROW: Where will the buses relocate when

this thing is under construction?


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JIM KERSTEN: I don’t think that’s been figured

out yet. I’m not sure. Tom, do you know?

TOM ROVERO: We’ve been meeting with Bus

Operations. As you know, they’re currently operating out

of the upper busway under a temporary configuration. They

could continue to operate in that mode. This canopy is

being designed with a high degree of modularity, so it

could be picked into place from the lower parking lot. And

you know, during the construction phase, the buses will

still be operating in a temporary configuration.

MARK TEDROW: Okay. You show six articulated

buses in the plans. There’s, I believe, 12 different lines

coming through here. Only one of them, maybe two, has

articulated buses. Is it possible to get four berths in

one of the bays, instead of just three? Or do you allow

the 39 to park willy-nilly?

TOM ROVERO: These are combine bus berths, so

there’s three combine bus berths per busway that may

incorporate more than one route. And Bus Operations is

going through that process now, and we’re going to try to

have someone from Bus Operations here for the 60 percent

meeting, because a lot of the questions from many of you

are operations oriented. And of course, you deserve, you

know, the most information possible. So we’ll have someone

from bus operations at the 60 percent.


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MARK TEDROW: The narrow part of the canopy that

separates the curved portion from the -- that right there.

Would it be possible to cantilever, to perhaps raise it up,

or cantilever it out over the area where the buses run to

provide better shelter for people walking through there?

Also, could you cantilever it over the northeast corridor?

ROGER GAGNIER: The concern there is the height

of the lower roof -- back up one. Back up. The height of

this lower roof is within the height of the bus. So what

we intend to do is keep that edge on the sidewalk, so the

bus won’t hit it. If we extend it and cantilever it over,

we now have to consider its height. And if we pick it up,

now you’re jeopardizing the coverage from the weather.

Being low gives you a little bit more coverage.

MARK TEDROW: -- extend it a little bit -- raise

it up and extend, you know, farther out, you would actually

probably increase it. I disagree with you there, sorry.

Finally, I assume this is being -- this is a

Chapter 149 project. You know, this is an -- appears to be

a relatively elegant design, except for the -- you know,

the flat dog leg there. I’d hope that, you know, you

could, you know, make simply, effective, clean details, so

that those wonderful contractors that you get in that

process can actually do a good job and create a waterproof

roof. Thank you.


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JIM KERSTEN: Thanks, Mark. Would anyone else?

Yeah.

AUDIENCE: I don’t know if this was too out

there, but you’re the architects. But is there any way to

have a bubble come out? You know, like a clear tube come

out so that it’s not about a canopy, it’s just a tube? So

it’s almost not even there?

JIM KERSTEN: We can -- I mean, we can take that

into consideration, but --

TIM VONASCHWEGE: Like in place of the canopy?

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah.

TIM VONASCHWEGE: Is that what you’re talking

about?

AUDIENCE: Yeah. Like you see on -- I don’t know

-- cross -- things that cross streets, you know. Like

there’s one on Huntington Ave.

JIM KERSTEN: Like a sky tunnel there, like --

AUDIENCE: Yeah.

JIM KERSTEN: -- like a skywalk. I mean, we can

take -- we’ll definitely, you know, we’ll take that

comment, you know, into evaluation --

AUDIENCE: No weather in there.

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah, right.

AUDIENCE: Thank you.

JIM KERSTEN: Sir?


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AUDIENCE: I have one suggestion that -- this

troublesome pathway.

JIM KERSTEN: Mm-hm.

AUDIENCE: What if you used center struts and the

inverted V as the same angle as the gable? So -- you

understand what I mean.

JIM KERSTEN: I’m sure they do.

AUDIENCE: And so you’d be higher, and as it got

closer to the sidewalk -- as it got closer to the sidewalk,

the V would extend, and it would kind of reflect the gable.

And where the two meet, you could figure out something.

You see what I’m saying --

JIM KERSTEN: All right. All right. Well, we

can -- sure. We can definitely -- you know, we’ll -- We

will take that into consideration --


JIM KERSTEN: All right.

AUDIENCE: -- running at 90 degrees --

JIM KERSTEN: Sir?

LARRY FABIAN: Larry Fabian, Dorchester, bus

rider here. Another -- thank you. You opened it up a

little, and maybe it won’t be until the next phase. But

since the canopy will be a very dramatic landmark, has

there been any thought to what color or colors it should

be, or what kind of lighting might be added on top of it to


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make it really something stunning?

JIM KERSTEN: Well, I know the -- we are

including a consultant for the lighting to make sure we get

it right, because it’s not only important for aesthetics,

but it’s also a safety feature that we really want to make

sure, you know, serves all its purposes properly.

The color for the, you know, for the -- for those

posts, I believe they’re white right now. I mean, this is

the type of things we want to hear.

LARRY FABIAN: (Indiscernible).

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah. Right. But these are the,

you know, this is something that’s, you know, if you have

an opinion on it, again, I’ll put my email back up there.

You can email Tom or myself. You know, so if you have

preference. And you know, maybe next time we can have a

couple different options, or you know, different renderings

of what it looks like.

LARRY FABIAN: I have no color scheme in mind.

My question is are -- is that part of your scope of work --

JIM KERSTEN: It will be. It will be at the end,

right. I mean, you know, this is going to be -- at the end

of the, you know, scope of work, it’s going to be

completely designed, and it’s going to be kind of, you

know, all tied up with a bow on it, to say -- to go to

somebody, hey, construct this, so.


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VICKIE HENRY: One more -- oh, sorry. Go ahead.


VICKIE HENRY: Vickie Henry again. So is this

part of it just for the cover part of it, and not for the

traffic flow? Because I’m still saying, again, the 38 and

the 39 are going to come from the top of the picture, and

they cannot make that turn. So I don’t care who is

building it, if it’s you or someone else, they cannot make

that turn.

TIM VONASCHWEGE: We’ll show you next time.

VICKIE HENRY: Okay.

TOM ROVERO: I’m going to assure you that it’s

been fully vetted that they can make the turn, and -- but

it’s beholden upon us to prove it to you, and we’ll do that

at the 60 percent.

VICKIE HENRY: Then the second part of it, as one

of the other questioners asked, but like, right now when,

say the 34E gets loaded, you know, there are 25 or 30

people trying to get on that bus. And if you’re trying to

get to one of the buses behind it, it’s very difficult. So

is there a way that you’re managing people so that if

they’re boarding, they move over and other people can go by

them? Because on the one hand, I could see you would want

to have the 34 and the 39 close to the station, but then

that causes the people traffic flow problem.


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TOM ROVERO: Well, are you referring to the

current temporary bus situation, where it’s much less

generously sized platforms. You know, I think the fact

that we’re working with 12-foot deep platforms, or minimum

of nine feet, we’re doing our utmost to make sure that

there’s enough queuing space for a bus, and also space to

continue down the length of the bus platform to get to the

bus berths further up.

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah, and that’s a comment we’ll

definitely share with Bus Operations as well, for the --

you know, for them to take that into consideration with the

VICKIE HENRY: So I guess the other questions I

would just ask you is I saw the fences that you put up, and

my kids are now 15 and 13. But even the -- I don’t know

what you’re going to put there, but kids are going to climb

that wire. The one that has the little wires, you’re going

to have a lot of trouble with little kids -- they’re going

to hang off of that. Which, if that’s okay with you --

JIM KERSTEN: Again, that’s -- that is --

VICKIE HENRY: That’s part of the other --

JIM KERSTEN: That hasn’t been decided yet --

VICKIE HENRY: Well, no -- okay. So that’s why

I’m mentioning it.

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah, right. Yeah.


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VICKIE HENRY: Okay.

JIM KERSTEN: It’s a great comment.

TOM ROVERO: (Indiscernible).

VICKIE HENRY: It did not look robust. It looked

fun, though, for them.

JIM KERSTEN: I don’t know. I’m going to cancel

you from the tour next time. All right. Sure.

ALICE ALEXANDER: -- Alice Alexander again. So

my comment is when exactly is the 39 bus moving to this

area, and is that dependent on the canopy construction or

plans, or --

JIM KERSTEN: No.

ALICE ALEXANDER: When will that happen --

JIM KERSTEN: This fall.

ALICE ALEXANDER: This fall sometime.

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah.

ALICE ALEXANDER: So like maybe October or

November, or --

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah, probably. I’ll -- as --

things are moving pretty --

ALICE ALEXANDER: Yep, yep.

JIM KERSTEN: -- you know, they’re fluid right

now in the construction.

ALICE ALEXANDER: Yep, okay.

JIM KERSTEN: And once -- if I get a shorter


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window, I will -- you know, I’ll let the community know.

If I get an exact date -- well, obviously at some point

there’s going to be a date.

ALICE ALEXANDER: -- yeah --

JIM KERSTEN: And you will receive --

ALICE ALEXANDER: Right, mm-hm.

JIM KERSTEN: -- you know, as much notification

as I --

ALICE ALEXANDER: All right. Thank you.

JIM KERSTEN: Thank you.

TOM ROVERO: And I’m sure they’ll post that on

the three-week look ahead that’s online.

JIM KERSTEN: Sir?

RALPH WALTON: Ralph Walton (phonetic). I’m just

looking at the eastern drip edge of the vault, and it looks

like straight down from that is a row of parked cars. So

in the event of an avalanche, they may receive the worse

end of this. Is there any need for some kind of -- to

engineer some kind of deflecting structure on the lower

level?

GEORGE KATSOUFIS: I believe we are looking at

having snow guards at the edges of the canopies, especially

for to hold the snow, what you’re referring to. We just

need to make sure that the snow guards we design do not

cause the opposite effect of having ice water shield


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failures and ice slipping behind the roof. So we’re all

for what you’re saying.

JIM KERSTEN: Bernie, if you just come up, use

the microphone, please. Thank you.

BERNARD DOHERTY: I remember someone earlier

asking about the snow loads on these buildings and stuff,

and it’s a fair question. And you mentioned the fact that

you had gutters on each side, and I looked at you

rendering. It looked like they’re pretty good size.

I assume that you’re heat tracing those gutters

in order to make sure that nothing freezes in them.

Because as you know, we’re not just talking about snow.

We’re talking about sometimes very severe weather, and what

we don’t need is icicles either on this side, or more so on

the side where vehicles are. Have you thought also about

heat tracing the entire roof itself to accelerate the

melting of the snow which might accumulate on the surface?

JIM KERSTEN: The design hasn’t gotten to that,

you know, level of detail yet, but that’s definitely

something we will -- you know, we’ll take a look at.

BERNARD DOHERTY: All right. Thank you.

JIM KERSTEN: Thank you. Sir

RALPH WALTON: One more --

JIM KERSTEN: That’s the third time you’ve said

that.


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RALPH WALTON: -- fixated on the snow, and you

should be worried about the blazing heat. What is going to

happen when we have the 50 90-degree days in a row with

this canopy? Just -- what kind of protection is it? And

is there any -- you know how they have in the old subways,

they have these giant fans that they just plug into the

wall because nobody thought about ventilating it? They

actually heated the subways in 1898, because they thought

it would be too cold. I think it’ll be too hot --

JIM KERSTEN: All right. Well, we’ll take that

into consideration as well, so thank you for your comments,

sir. If you could just say your name, sir, so when we --

EDWARD WAGONER: Yes. It’s Edward Wagoner

(phonetic), and I’m on Rosemary Street, so I’m literally

around the corner from that. I’m kind of curious, how much

longer is there going to be night construction over there?

JIM KERSTEN: The night construction isn’t -- if

there’s any night construction going on at night, it’s --

EDWARD WAGONER: I certainly noticed it. It is -

-

JIM KERSTEN: -- it’s not related to this

contract. There are --

EDWARD WAGONER: What do you mean by not related?

JIM KERSTEN: So the -- well, all right. It’s

not related to the Casey Arborway contract. There -- the


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night work that’s going on, there are different companies

that are working in the area as well, not associated with

the Casey Arborway project. You have Feeney Brothers,

which are doing gas line relocation, and I think two or

three other --

EDWARD WAGONER: And why is the gas line being

relocated?

JIM KERSTEN: Or, I mean, it’s being replaced.

And that’s the utility doing that. That’s not us -- part

of this job.

EDWARD WAGONER: Last time I looked, there was a

very large truck in the shape of a tank. There was a

police cars. There were lights shining down on the work

place, and there was an enormous hose going down into a

hole. And I would point out that this area where it was

being done was almost exactly where the Casey overpass

would have jumped over South Street, and probably

rightfully where the concrete stanchion was. So what I was

want to know is are you saying that these people would be

doing that, even if the Casey overpass was still there?

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah. I mean, yeah, I would

believe so, because this isn’t our job. This is the

utility company replacing, you know, their --

EDWARD WAGONER: Well, why are they doing at

night then?


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JIM KERSTEN: I can’t speak for them. I don’t

know.

EDWARD WAGONER: Well, what occurs to me is that

you’re not being quite forthright here. This may not be

part of your construction contract or your design plans,

but it is, in fact, part of the Casey reconstruction

project. It is work that’s -- would have been done --

would not have been done in the way it’s being done without

this --

JIM KERSTEN: If --

EDWARD WAGONER: -- redesign. And if that’s the

case, and if it’s being compartmentalized into another

budget, it means it’s another example of the fact that we

have no idea what the project --

JIM KERSTEN: No, no, no, this has -- sir --

EDWARD WAGONER: -- the consequences and the

costs of the project --

JIM KERSTEN: Sir, sir --

EDWARD WAGONER: -- as a whole are, because --

JIM KERSTEN: Sir, this -- what -- let me put it

this way. So if this was -- there is some utility work

that was associated or is associated with this contract.

EDWARD WAGONER: Mm-hm.

JIM KERSTEN: That money is put aside in a

contingency before the contract goes out because we know


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what the work is going to be. This is a private company

doing their work --

EDWARD WAGONER: -- I know they’re private --

JIM KERSTEN: -- so -- right, so it’s not -- but

it’s not associated. We’re not paying for it.

EDWARD WAGONER: Who’s we?

JIM KERSTEN: The Commonwealth of Massachusetts

is not paying for the --

EDWARD WAGONER: The gas company is doing this

for free?

JIM KERSTEN: They have to maintain their own

infrastructure. I mean, so --

EDWARD WAGONER: That’s true. But if --

JIM KERSTEN: So --

EDWARD WAGONER: -- this construction is a

consequence --

JIM KERSTEN: But it’s not.

EDWARD WAGONER: -- of a project as a whole --

JIM KERSTEN: What I’m telling you, sir, it’s

not.

EDWARD WAGONER: -- consequence of the project as

a whole.

JIM KERSTEN: That’s what I’m telling you. It’s

not associated with -- they would be -- that’s a decision

they made as a company to make that investment into their


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infrastructure. And I can’t speak about when they work at

night or during the day, because whenever --

EDWARD WAGONER: Why would they work at night?

JIM KERSTEN: -- any of our contractors, through

the Casey Arborway have ever gone out, we have given the

community a two-week notice that night work is happening.

And we only did that in cases where we really had to, where

safety was paramount, kind of like taking down the old

overpass over Washington Street or South Street. During

the day that’s not a safe operation for anybody. So --

EDWARD WAGONER: -- I’ve seen the Feeney

Brothers. They works on our street if -- contracting for

the -- I don’t even know which utility, one of them, okay.

And they did it during the day, even though they had to

bump all the cars on the street. So I do not understand

why they’re doing it at night, unless as of a consequence

of the Casey project, they’re unable to work during the

day.

JIM KERSTEN: I -- again, I can’t speak to their

schedule. But we have no control over that. They’re not

part of our operation. We didn’t ask them to do it. We

didn’t direct them to do it. We’re not paying them to do

it. That’s them doing it on their own. I don’t -- I mean,

I can’t really be any clearer, you know.

EDWARD WAGONER: It just seems to be that, in


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spite of what you said, that the total picture of the

project is never clear or presented to us in the entirety

at any time.

JIM KERSTEN: I mean, I’ve been here, in this

room, multiple times. We’ve talked about the budget

multiple times. If you have any questions, come grab me

after. We really want to focus on the canopy tonight.

EDWARD WAGONER: Okay.

JIM KERSTEN: But grab me after. I can break

down the Arborway project any way you’d like, to show you

how much money it costs, okay.

EDWARD WAGONER: Okay.

JIM KERSTEN: Thank you, sir. And I’d also like

to recognize Natalie Coughman (phonetic) from Rep. Malia’s

(phonetic) office, who’s in the back. I just forgot to

mention it earlier. So -- yeah. Tad Read from the BRA.

TAD READ: And the crowd roars. Jim, I just

wanted to thank you, and Tom, and the AECOM design team for

being as responsive as you have been over the last several

months to our questions and comments about the design. I’m

wondering, could we just quickly go back to -- I think it

was image number 13.


TAD READ: Oh, yeah. There we go. We -- in a

prior meeting with you -- and this is something you may be


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still looking at, and we’ll see in the next iteration of

the design. But I think you were looking at the

possibility of incorporating seating along the edges of the

base of those pylons, those structural supports. Is that

still the case?

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah, that is still being looked

at. It’s something we want to do. We are, you know,

looking at every option. And that is a feature that we’re

very interested in. Again, just to kind of --

TAD READ: I was going to say, you know --

JIM KERSTEN: Yeah.

TAD READ: I was going to say that we like the

way that looks. I think you did as well. And it certainly

is a good opportunity to have one piece of the work have

multiple functions, and the seating in those locations does

that.

We’ve had some concern about the depth, and

that’s the primary reason for looking at other

alternatives. But we had a discussion about it today, this

very day, and thinking that was a pretty good idea. Well,

we haven’t fully dismissed it.

JIM KERSTEN: Sir?

MARK TEDROW: Mark Tedrow once again. I honestly

hope you really don’t do that. Nine feet wide for a 300-

foot long, essentially, sidewalk, with people -- you know,


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you’re going have 60, 70 people leaving the station and

heading to a bus. You’re going to have another 60 or 70

people de-boarding buses and heading to the station.

They’re going to need to pass one another. There’s going

to be, you know, another 60 or 70 people waiting for buses

along there. Width is at a serious premium. Please --

yeah, please make the effective walkway as wide as you can.

You know, if you can put it on the sides, you know, maybe

that will work. Certainly, seating is nice, but please

don’t narrow the walkway. Thank you.

JIM KERSTEN: All right. Thank you.

All right. Does anyone else have any other

comments or questions? All right. Well, thank you very

much for joining us. Your comments were great. The

questions were very informative, and we look forward to

coming out in the, you know, next couple of months and

showing you the next stage in the design. So thanks again.

(Applause.)

(Meeting adjourned.)


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