phase 2 development project proposal - mary river iron
TRANSCRIPT
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· · · · · · · · · ·NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD
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· · · PHASE 2 DEVELOPMENT PROJECT PROPOSAL - MARY RIVER IRON
· · · · · · · · ORE MINE NIRB FILE NUMBER 08MN053
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· · ·___________________________________________________
· · · · · · · · · · · · · · HEARING
· · · · · · · · · · · · · · VOLUME 5
· · ·___________________________________________________
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· · · · · · · · · · · ·Pond Inlet, Nunavut
· · · · · · · · · · · · January 29, 2021
·1· · · · · · · · · · · TABLE OF CONTENTS
·2
·3· ·Description· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Page
·4
·5· ·January 29, 2021· · · · · · · Morning Session· · ·818
·6· ·Opening Remarks· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·818
·7· ·Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers· · · · · 824
·8· ·Organization Questions Baffinland Iron Mines
·9· ·Corporation
10· ·Hamlet of Clyde River and Clyde River Hunters· · ·829
11· ·and Trappers Organization Questions Baffinland
12· ·Iron Ore Corporation
13· ·Amaruq Hunters and Trappers Organization· · · · · 833
14· ·Questions Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
15· ·World Wildlife Fund Questions Baffinland Iron· · ·844
16· ·Mines Corporation
17· ·Oceans North Questions Baffinland Iron Mines· · · 849
18· ·Corporation
19· ·Caleb Ootoova (Elder) Questions Baffinland Iron· ·853
20· ·Mines Corporation
21· ·Kaujak Komangapik (Elder) Questions Baffinland· · 858
22· ·Iron Mines Corporation
23· ·Simon Idlout (Elder) Questions Baffinland Iron· · 864
24· ·Mines Corporation
25· ·Elijah Panipakoocho (Elder) Questions Baffinland· 867
26· ·Iron Mines Corporation
·1· ·Nunavut Impact Review Board Questions· · · · · · ·871
·2· ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
·3
·4· ·January 29, 2021· · · · · · · Afternoon Session· ·878
·5· ·EMMA MALCOLM, PHIL ROUGET, PATRICK ABGRALL,· · · ·881
·6· ·MARINA WINTERBOTTOM, JOHN MCCLINTOCK, Affirmed
·7· ·Presentation by Baffinland Iron Mines· · · · · · ·886
·8· ·Corporation (Marine Environment)
·9· ·Charlie Inuarak (Elder) Questions Baffinland· · · 919
10· ·Iron Mines Corporation
11· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association Questions· · · · · · ·927
12· ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
13· ·Directional Update by Nunavut Impact Review· · · ·946
14· ·Board Legal Counsel (Summaries on Motions)
15
16· ·January 29, 2021· · · · · · · Evening Session· · ·952
17· ·Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated Questions· · · · · 972
18· ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
19· ·Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated Questions· · · · · 980
20· ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
21· ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet Questions Baffinland· · · · ·1001
22· ·Iron Mines Corporation
23
24
25
26
·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · EXHIBITS
·2· ·Description· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Page
·3
·4· ·EXHIBIT 9 - PowerPoint Presentation, Marine· · · ·885
·5· ·Environment, Public Hearing Iqaluit and Pond Inlet
·6· ·January 25 - February 6, 2021 (English/Inuktitut)
·7
·8· ·EXHIBIT 10 - Baffinland Correspondence and· · · · 885
·9· ·attachments:· Response to Pond Inlet Proposal
10
11· ·EXHIBIT 11 - PowerPoint Slides on Marine Noise· · 885
12· ·(Visual aids for reference in relation to Slides
13· ·44 and 47 of Exhibit 9)
14
15· ·EXHIBIT 12 - PowerPoint slides on narwhal harvest 885
16· ·data
17
18· ·EXHIBIT 13 - Key Topics Reference Guide,· · · · · 885
19· ·previously filed with NIRB on December 18
20
21· ·EXHIBIT 14 - Summary on Significance, previously· 885
22· ·filed with NIRB on December 18
23
24· ·EXHIBIT 15 - Baffinland Response to Hamlet of· · ·885
25· ·Pond Inlet (Mittimatalik) Announcement with regard
26· ·to Support for Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
·1· ·Phase 2 Expansion of the Mary River Project
·2· ·_______________________________________________________
·3· ·Proceedings taken at Atakaalik Community Hall,
·4· ·Pond Inlet, Nunavut.
·5· ·_______________________________________________________
·6· ·NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD
·7· ·K. Kaluraq· · · · · · · ·Chair of Hearing
·8· ·M. Qumuatuq· · · · · · · Panel Member
·9· ·C. Emrick· · · · · · · · Panel Member
10
11· ·NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD STAFF (POND INLET)
12· ·T. Meadows· · · · · · · ·Legal Counsel
13· ·K. Costello· · · · · · · Executive Director
14· ·K. Gillard· · · · · · · ·Manager, Project Monitoring
15· · · · · · · · · · · · · · and Acting Director Technical
16· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Services
17· ·C. Barker· · · · · · · · Technical Advisor
18· ·P. Evalik· · · · · · · · Environmental Administrator
19· ·B. Beattie· · · · · · · ·Environmental Technologist
20· ·F. Emingak· · · · · · · ·Junior Technical Advisor
21
22· ·NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD STAFF (IQALUIT)
23· ·K. Morrison· · · · · · · Manager, Impact Assessment
24· ·G. Daoust· · · · · · · · Technical Advisor
25· ·E. Adjun· · · · · · · · ·Outreach Coordinator
26· ·O. Evalik· · · · · · · · Senior finance Office
·1· ·NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD STAFF (BY PHONE)
·2· ·T. Arko· · · · · · · · · Technical Services
·3· ·S. Amuno· · · · · · · · ·Technical Advisor
·4
·5· ·PROPONENT
·6
·7· ·BAFFINLAND IRON MINES CORPORATION (IQALUIT)
·8· ·B. Armstrong· · · · · · ·Legal Counsel
·9· ·C. Kowbel· · · · · · · · Legal Counsel
10· ·M. Lord-Hoyle· · · · · · Vice-President, Sustainable
11· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Development
12· ·L. Kamermans· · · · · · ·Director, Sustainable
13· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Development
14· ·J. Tigullaraq· · · · · · Head of Northern Affairs
15· ·A. Moore· · · · · · · · ·Manager, Government Relations
16· · · · · · · · · · · · · · and Public Affairs
17
18· ·BAFFINLAND IRON MINES CORPORATION (POND INLET)
19· ·B. Penney· · · · · · · · President, Chief Executive
20· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Officer
21· ·U. Hanson· · · · · · · · Vice President, Community and
22· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Strategic Development
23
24· ·BAFFINLAND IRON MINES CORPORATION (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
25· ·L. Duke· · · · · · · · · Legal Counsel
26· ·A. McLeod· · · · · · · · EDI Environmental Dynamics Inc.
·1· ·E. Malcolm· · · · · · · ·Sustainability Specialist
·2· ·C. Murray· · · · · · · · Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
·3· ·C. Moore· · · · · · · · ·Intrinsik
·4· ·C. Devereaux· · · · · · ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
·5· ·C. Merkosak· · · · · · · Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
·6· ·C. Legault· · · · · · · ·Fednav Limited
·7· ·D. Jarrat· · · · · · · · Stantec
·8· ·D. Del Cardo· · · · · · ·Genessee Wyoming Canada
·9· ·E. Malcolm· · · · · · · ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
10· ·F. van Biljon· · · · · · Hatch Engineering
11· ·F. Pittman· · · · · · · ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
12· ·J. McClintock· · · · · · Wood Plc
13· ·J. Krizan· · · · · · · · EDI Environmental Dynamics Inc.
14· ·M. Winterbottom· · · · · Golder Associates Ltd.
15· ·M. Clark· · · · · · · · ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
16· ·M. Austin· · · · · · · · JASCO Applied Sciences
17· ·M. Setterington· · · · · EDI Environmental Dynamics Inc.
18· ·P. Abgrall· · · · · · · ·Golder Associates Ltd.
19· ·P. Osbourne· · · · · · · Golder Associates Ltd.
20· ·P. Rouget· · · · · · · · Golder Associates Ltd.
21· ·R. Cook· · · · · · · · · Knight Piésold
22· ·S. Wallace· · · · · · · ·Stantec
23· ·S. Borcsok· · · · · · · ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
24· ·S. Douville· · · · · · · Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
25· ·T. Keane· · · · · · · · ·Fednav Limited
26· ·T. Sewell· · · · · · · · Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
·1· ·V. Corning· · · · · · · ·Stantec
·2
·3· ·INTERVENORS
·4
·5· ·NUNAVUT TUNNGAVIK INCORPORATED (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
·6· ·A. Yuan· · · · · · · · · Legal Counsel
·7· ·N. Gonzalez· · · · · · · Legal Counsel
·8· ·J. Eetoolook· · · · · · ·Interim President
·9· ·D. Lee· · · · · · · · · ·Wildlife Biologist
10· ·P. Irngaut· · · · · · · ·Director
11· ·B. Dean· · · · · · · · · Assistant Director
12· ·D. Kunuk· · · · · · · · ·Chief Operating Officer
13· ·H. Uniuqsaraq· · · · · · Chief Administrative Officer
14· ·C. Lyall· · · · · · · · ·Executive Assistant
15
16· ·QIKIQTANI INUIT ASSOCIATION (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
17· ·L. Land· · · · · · · · · Legal Counsel
18· ·P.J. Akeeagok· · · · · · President
19· ·J. Ottenhof· · · · · · · Director, Lands and Resource
20· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Management
21· ·R. Paton· · · · · · · · ·Director, IQ & Engagement
22· ·S. Williamson-Bathory· · Special Advisor
23· ·L. Barnabas· · · · · · · Portfolio Lead
24· ·A. Macdonald· · · · · · ·The Firelight Group
25· ·R. Olsen· · · · · · · · ·The Firelight Group
26· ·S. Leech· · · · · · · · ·The Firelight Group
·1· ·J. Higdon· · · · · · · · Freshwater and Marine Specialist
·2· ·B. Stewart· · · · · · · ·Freshwater and Marine Specialist
·3· ·J. Ash· · · · · · · · · ·Arktis Solutions
·4· ·N. Jewitt· · · · · · · · Arktis Solutions
·5· ·M. Hemp· · · · · · · · · Qikiqtani Inuit Association
·6· ·C. Spencer· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association
·7
·8· ·HAMLET OF POND INLET (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
·9· ·J. Arreak· · · · · · · · Mayor of Pond Inlet
10· ·F. Tester· · · · · · · · Technical Advisor
11· ·C. Sangoya· · · · · · · ·Pond Inlet Hunters and
12· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Trappers Organization
13· ·J. Merkosak· · · · · · · Resident Advisor in IQ
14· ·J. Alooloo· · · · · · · ·Elder Advisor
15· ·L. Quassa· · · · · · · · Community Representative
16· ·J. Kiyoopik· · · · · · · Youth Representative
17
18· ·MITTIMATALIK HUNTERS AND TRAPPERS ORGANIZATION
19· ·(REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
20· ·E. Murphy· · · · · · · · Legal Counsel
21· ·K. Julta· · · · · · · · ·Legal Counsel
22· ·M. Bradley· · · · · · · ·Legal Counsel
23· ·J. Zyla· · · · · · · · · Woodward & Company
24· ·L. Mar· · · · · · · · · ·Woodward & Company
25· ·E. Ootoovak· · · · · · · President
26· ·E. Inuarak· · · · · · · ·Vice President
·1· ·A. Hanson-Main· · · · · ·Technical Advisor
·2· ·Dr. V. Vergara· · · · · ·Marine Expert
·3· ·E. Solomon· · · · · · · ·IQ Expert
·4· ·S. Elverum· · · · · · · ·IQ Expert
·5· ·J. Simonee· · · · · · · ·Community-Based Monitoring Witness
·6· ·V. L'Hereault· · · · · · Community-Based Monitoring Witness
·7
·8· ·IGLOOLIK WORKING GROUP AND IGLOOLIK HUNTERS AND
·9· ·TRAPPERS ASSOCIATION (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
10· ·P. Ivalu· · · · · · · · ·Chairperson, Igloolik Working
11· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Group
12· ·M. Recinos· · · · · · · ·Igloolik Working Group
13· ·J. Quassa· · · · · · · · Igloolik Working Group
14· ·J. Malliki· · · · · · · ·Igloolik Hunters and Trappers
15· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Association
16· ·D. Irngaut· · · · · · · ·Igloolik Hunters and Trappers
17· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Association
18· ·P. Awa· · · · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Igloolik
19· ·N. Piugattuk· · · · · · ·Elder Advisor
20· ·M. Ivalu· · · · · · · · ·Community Representative
21· ·W. Immaroitok· · · · · · Youth Representative
22
23· ·HAMLET OF SANIRAJAK (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
24· ·J. Audlakiak· · · · · · ·Mayor of Sanirajak
25· ·L. Primeau· · · · · · · ·Chief Administrative Officer
26· ·V. Curley· · · · · · · · Hamlet of Sanirajak
·1· ·D. Arvaluk· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Sanirajak
·2· ·T. Kuppaq· · · · · · · · Hamlet of Sanirajak
·3· ·J. Kaernerk· · · · · · · Community Representative
·4
·5· ·HAMLET OF ARCTIC BAY AND IKAJUTIT HUNTERS AND TRAPPERS
·6· ·ASSOCIATION (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
·7· ·L. Idlout· · · · · · · · Legal Counsel
·8· ·O. Eegeesiak· · · · · · ·Hamlet of Arctic Bay
·9· ·M. Koonoo· · · · · · · · Arctic Bay Hunters and
10· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Trappers Association
11· ·O. Naqitarvik· · · · · · Elder Advisor
12
13· ·HAMLET OF CLYDE RIVER AND CLYDE RIVER HUNTERS AND
14· ·TRAPPERS ASSOCIATION (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
15· ·J. Natanine· · · · · · · Hamlet of Clyde River
16· ·W. Bernauer· · · · · · · Hamlet of Clyde River
17· ·S. Aipellee· · · · · · · Clyde River Hunters and
18· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Trappers Association
19· ·O. Audlakiak· · · · · · ·Clyde River QIA Women
20· ·S. Palituq· · · · · · · ·Elder Advisor
21· ·J. Palituq· · · · · · · ·Youth Community Representative
22
23· ·AMARUQ HUNTERS AND TRAPPERS ASSOCIATION (REGISTERED
24· ·SPEAKERS)
25· ·M. Mike· · · · · · · · · Amaruq Hunters and Trappers
26· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Association
·1· ·Jeetaloo Kakee· · · · · ·Elder Advisor
·2
·3· ·HAMLET OF RESOLUTE BAY (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
·4· ·M. Idlout Amarualik· · · Resolute Bay Hunters and
·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Trappers Association
·6· ·S. Idlout· · · · · · · · Hamlet of Resolute Bay
·7
·8· ·GOVERNMENT OF NUNAVUT (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
·9· ·E. Stockley· · · · · · · Legal Counsel
10· ·M. Kinney· · · · · · · · Legal Counsel
11· ·N. O'Grady· · · · · · · ·Avatiliriniq Coordinator
12· ·G. Karlik· · · · · · · · Assistant Deputy Minister
13· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Department EDT
14· ·J. Onalik· · · · · · · · Deputy Minister EDT
15· ·S. Pinksen· · · · · · · ·Assistant Deputy Minister DOE
16· ·J. Elliott· · · · · · · ·Project Manager Impact Assessment
17· · · · · · · · · · · · · · DOE
18· ·J. Ringrose· · · · · · · Qikiqtani Regional Wildlife
19· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Biologist
20· ·E. Zell· · · · · · · · · Manager, Environmental Assessment
21· · · · · · · · · · · · · · and Regulation EDT
22· ·A. Robinson· · · · · · · Manager, Land Use and
23· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Environmental Assessment DOE
24· ·S. Atkinson· · · · · · · Wildlife Consultant
25· ·A. Cyr-Parent· · · · · · Senior Advisor
26
·1· ·NORTHERN PROJECTS MANAGEMENT OFFICE (REGISTERED
·2· ·SPEAKERS)
·3· ·L. Dyer· · · · · · · · · Director General, Northern Projects
·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Management Office
·5· ·A. Shafi· · · · · · · · ·Technical Support, Northern
·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Projects Management Office
·7· ·S. Qazi· · · · · · · · · Technical Support, Northern
·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Projects Management Office
·9· ·S. Hitchcox· · · · · · · Northern· Projects Management
10· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Office
11
12· ·DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
13· ·S. Gruda-Dolbec· · · · · Legal Counsel
14
15· ·CROWN-INDIGENOUS RELATIONS NORTHERN AFFAIRS CANADA
16· ·(REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
17· ·S. Dewar· · · · · · · · ·Director, Resource Management
18· ·K. Henrikson· · · · · · ·Regional Director General
19· ·F. Ngwa· · · · · · · · · Manager, Impact Assessment
20· ·A. Chaikine· · · · · · · Senior Environment Assessment
21· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Specialist
22· ·D. Abernethy· · · · · · ·Regional Socio-economic Analyst
23· ·M. Hopkins· · · · · · · ·Director General, Natural
24· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Resources and Environment
25· ·K. Pawley· · · · · · · · Manager, Environmental Assessment
26
·1· ·J. Walsh· · · · · · · · ·Senior Environmental
·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Assessment Analyst
·3· ·J. Neary· · · · · · · · ·Environmental Assessment Analyst
·4· ·K. Ma· · · · · · · · · · Regional Environmental
·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Assessment Coordinator
·6
·7· ·FISHERIES AND OCEANS CANADA (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
·8· ·G. Bernard-Lecaille· · · Senior Biologist, Fish and
·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Fish Habitat Program, Arctic
10· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Region
11· ·A. Sorckoff· · · · · · · Fish and Fish Habitat Protection
12· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Biologist
13· ·A. Beattie· · · · · · · ·Team Lead, Mining Oil and Gas
14· · · · · · · · · · · · · · North
15· ·M. Marcoux· · · · · · · ·Marine Mammal Expert, DFO Science
16· ·K. Howland· · · · · · · ·Aquatic Invasive Species Expert,
17· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Oceans Canada Science Group
18· ·T. Hoggarth· · · · · · · Regional Director, Aquatic
19· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Ecosystems
20· ·C. Matthews· · · · · · · Research Scientist
21· ·J. Paulic· · · · · · · · Science Advice Liaison
22· ·J. Shead· · · · · · · · ·Aquatic Invasive Species Biologist
23· ·K. Hedges· · · · · · · · Research Scientist
24· ·P. Hall· · · · · · · · · Environmental Specialist
25· ·S. Bailey· · · · · · · · Research Scientist
26· ·S. Nudds· · · · · · · · ·Physical Scientist (Oceanographer)
·1· ·S. Ferguson· · · · · · · Research Scientist
·2· ·S. McLennan· · · · · · · Manager, Arctic Projects and
·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Governance
·4· ·T. Seal· · · · · · · · · Junior Project Officer
·5
·6· ·PARKS CANADA (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
·7· ·A. Stoddart· · · · · · · Environmental Assessment
·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Scientist
·9· ·J. Chisholm· · · · · · · Ecologist Team Leader
10· ·A. Maher· · · · · · · · ·Resource Conservation Manager,
11· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Nunavut Field Unit
12· ·J. Bastick· · · · · · · ·Environmental Assessment
13· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Specialist
14· ·J. Boon· · · · · · · · · Field Unit Superintendant,
15· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Nunavut Field Unit
16· ·L. Jonart· · · · · · · · Project Manager, Tallurutiup
17· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Imanga National Marine
18· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Conservation Area, Nunavut
19· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Field Unit
20
21· ·TRANSPORT CANADA (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
22· ·J. Barker· · · · · · · · Regional Environmental Advisor
23· ·A. Gudmunson· · · · · · ·Regional Manager Environmental
24· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Programs
25· ·J. Johar· · · · · · · · ·Manager Marine Safety and Security
26· ·J. Cram· · · · · · · · · Manager Rail Safety Engineering
·1· ·M. O'soup Bushie· · · · ·Major Resource Development
·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Projects & Aboriginal Consultations
·3
·4· ·ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE CANADA (REGISTERED
·5· ·SPEAKERS)
·6· ·A. Graham· · · · · · · · Environmental Coordinator
·7· ·M. Fairbairn· · · · · · ·Regional Director
·8· ·B. Asher· · · · · · · · ·Technical Expert, Air Quality
·9· ·R. Holt· · · · · · · · · Technical Expert, Air Quality
10· ·M. Parsons· · · · · · · ·Technical Expert, Air Quality
11· ·C. Kabanguka· · · · · · ·Environmental Emergencies Expert
12· ·J.F. Dufour· · · · · · · Technical Expert, Water Quality
13· ·K. Patel· · · · · · · · ·Technical Expert, Water Quality
14· ·M. Tobin· · · · · · · · ·Technical Expert, Water Quality
15· ·A. Wilson· · · · · · · · Technical Expert, Water Quality
16· ·R. Ejeckam· · · · · · · ·Senior Mining Project Officer
17· ·N. Cote· · · · · · · · · Executive Director
18
19· ·HEALTH CANADA (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
20· ·M. Gale· · · · · · · · · Regional Manager
21· ·K. Buset· · · · · · · · ·Impact Assessment Program
22· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Manager
23· ·W. Wilson· · · · · · · · Impact Assessment Coordinator
24· ·T-T. Nguyen· · · · · · · Engagement Specialist
25· ·N. Lyrette· · · · · · · ·Environmental Specialist
26
·1· ·NATURAL RESOURCES CANADA (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
·2· ·P. Unger· · · · · · · · ·Senior Environmental
·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Assessment Officer
·4· ·R. Johnstone· · · · · · ·Deputy Director, Explosives
·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Safety and Security Branch,
·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Lands and Minerals Sector
·7
·8· ·IMPACT ASSESSMENT AGENCY OF CANADA (REGISTERED
·9· ·SPEAKERS)
10· ·Y. Stoimenova· · · · · · Policy Analyst
11· ·T. Frezza· · · · · · · · Manager, Legislation
12
13· ·NUNAVUT INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NETWORK (REGISTERED
14· ·SPEAKERS)
15· ·I. Gilles· · · · · · · · Legal Counsel
16· ·L. Tulugarjuk· · · · · · Chairperson, Executive Director
17· ·Z. Kunuk· · · · · · · · ·Founder and Director
18· ·C. Kunnuk· · · · · · · · Nunavut Independent Television
19· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Network
20· ·L. Lipsett· · · · · · · ·Technical Advisor
21· ·M. Malliki Jr.· · · · · ·Nunavut Independent Television
22· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Network
23
24· ·WORLD WILDLIFE FUND (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
25· ·A. Dumbrille· · · · · · ·Lead Specialist, Marine Shipping
26· · · · · · · · · · · · · · and Conservation
·1· ·P. Okalik· · · · · · · · Lead Specialist, Arctic
·2· ·B. Laforest· · · · · · · Senior Specialist, Arctic
·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Species and Ecosystems
·4· ·E. Keenan· · · · · · · · Specialist, Eastern Arctic
·5
·6· ·OCEANS NORTH (REGISTERED SPEAKERS)
·7· ·C. Debicki· · · · · · · ·Legal Counsel
·8· ·A. Joynt· · · · · · · · ·Senior Policy Advisor
·9· ·G. MacDonald· · · · · · ·Arctic Research Specialist
10· ·J. Jones· · · · · · · · ·Scripps Institution of Oceanography
11
12· ·INTERPRETERS/TRANSLATORS
13· ·V. Dewar· · · · · · · · ·Language Translator
14· ·R. Katsak· · · · · · · · Language Translator
15· ·T. Arnajaallak· · · · · ·Language Translator
16· ·J. Peter· · · · · · · · ·Language Translator
17· ·J. Tucktoo· · · · · · · ·Language Translator (Iqaluit)
18
19· ·A. Vidal, CSR(A)· · · · ·Official Court Reporter
20· ·S. Burns, CSR(A), RPR,· ·Official Court Reporter
21· ·CRR
22· ·_______________________________________________________
23
24
25
26
·1· ·(PROCEEDINGS COMMENCED AT 9:05 AM)
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Good morning.
·3· · · · My name is Kaviq Kaluraq.· I am the Chairperson of
·4· ·the Nunavut Impact Review Board or NIRB.
·5· · · · On behalf of the Board, I would like to welcome
·6· ·everyone back to Day 5 of the NIRB's resumed public
·7· ·hearing associated with the assessment of Baffinland
·8· ·Iron Mines Corporation Phase 2 development proposal
·9· ·related to the Mary River Iron Ore Mine Project.
10· · · · Welcome to everyone attending in Pond Inlet and
11· ·Iqaluit and those joining us on Zoom and over the
12· ·phone.
13· · · · Opening prayer before we resume.
14· ·Opening Prayer
15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Caleb.
16· ·Opening Remarks
17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Just a quick reminder to
18· ·everyone participating in person here in Pond Inlet and
19· ·in the hub in Iqaluit, that due to the COVID-19
20· ·pandemic, the Nunavut Impact Review Board has put in
21· ·place additional procedures for those attending in
22· ·person to keep us all safe and in compliance with local
23· ·public health requirements so that the Board can have
24· ·80 people join us in Iqaluit and 100 people in Pond
25· ·Inlet.
26· · · · The Board has posted our COVID-19 practices in
·1· ·English and Inuktitut on the doors as you enter the
·2· ·hall, and we require everyone to comply with these
·3· ·requirements so that we can ensure we all remain safe
·4· ·and healthy.
·5· · · · The pandemic has also limited the ability of
·6· ·people to travel to Iqaluit or Pond Inlet, so several
·7· ·people are joining us via video feed and audio links.
·8· ·Wherever you are and however you are participating in
·9· ·these public hearings, the Board really appreciates you
10· ·taking the time to join us during these important
11· ·meetings.
12· · · · The COVID-19 pandemic has also meant that
13· ·approximately 200 people are joining us in the
14· ·proceedings either on Zoom or through telephone.
15· ·Although we have had a few small technical glitches so
16· ·far this week, we are grateful to everyone taking the
17· ·time to participate on whatever platform you are able.
18· ·For all parties, no matter where you are, please wait
19· ·for me to turn the microphone over to you as I am often
20· ·giving the interpreters time to finish before our AV
21· ·technicians switch to your feed.
22· · · · When you speak, please say your name and identify
23· ·your organization that you will be speaking for, and be
24· ·mindful that our interpreter -- of our interpreters as
25· ·you go so that we can ensure the Board has an accurate
26· ·record of these proceedings.
·1· · · · Please note that simultaneous interpretation of
·2· ·these proceedings is available throughout these
·3· ·meetings and interpreters here in Pond Inlet and
·4· ·additional interpreter is available in Iqaluit to
·5· ·assist with logistics for the designated community
·6· ·representatives.· Receivers are available from the
·7· ·sign-in table at each in-person location, and
·8· ·language-specific information has been provided for
·9· ·those participating online.
10· · · · In both Pond Inlet and Iqaluit, the receivers
11· ·using the -- are using the following channels:
12· ·Channel 0, floor; Channel 1, English; Channel 2,
13· ·Inuktitut.· If you are at an in-person location and are
14· ·having regular trouble hearing the proceedings, please
15· ·let one of the NIRB staff know, and they will assist
16· ·you.· Any issues with the online feed can be
17· ·communicated to Keith Morrison.
18· · · · For those attending in person in Pond Inlet and
19· ·Iqaluit, there are sign-in sheets at the table as you
20· ·come in.· I ask everyone to sign in on these sheets if
21· ·you have not already done so.· This will ensure that
22· ·the Nunavut Impact Review Board can provide an accurate
23· ·record of hearing participants and allow for adherence
24· ·to public health measures.
25· · · · The Nunavut Impact Review Board is required to
26· ·gather contact information for everyone attending in
·1· ·Iqaluit and Pond Inlet.· This information will only be
·2· ·used for contact tracing purposes.· Those participating
·3· ·through the online feed should have preregistered to
·4· ·receive the information, but if you did not
·5· ·preregister, please contact Cory Barker to indicate
·6· ·your participation.
·7· · · · In addition to the video feed for participants on
·8· ·Zoom, the Board is working with the Nunavut Independent
·9· ·Television Network to arrange to broadcast the live
10· ·feed from Pond Inlet and Iqaluit through the Arctic
11· ·Co-op and Shaw Direct cable TV throughout the territory
12· ·and beyond through Uvagut TV.
13· · · · These additional broadcasting measures are
14· ·intended to enable community members to view the
15· ·technical sessions and community roundtable of the
16· ·public hearing from their own homes.· Also, as I noted
17· ·yesterday, there are several media outlets, including
18· ·CBC, Nunatsiaq News, and Canadian Press also following
19· ·these proceedings through Zoom.· The Board appreciates
20· ·the interest and participation by the media covering
21· ·these proceedings and extending the proceedings to
22· ·audiences within and outside Nunavut.
23· · · · The Board reminds the media that because the Board
24· ·is engaged in a decision-making process for the Phase 2
25· ·development project, the Board and staff will not
26· ·provide comments or answer specific questions on this
·1· ·matter until the Board's public hearing report is
·2· ·issued publicly.
·3· · · · For the safety and convenience of everyone here
·4· ·with me in Pond Inlet, the washrooms are located
·5· ·outside in this -- outside this room in the lobby area,
·6· ·and the exits are located through the main doors to the
·7· ·lobby and on both sides of this room.· However, to exit
·8· ·the room during the breaks, we ask that you use the
·9· ·main lobby entryway.· In Iqaluit, NIRB staff will give
10· ·you information about the washrooms and emergency exits
11· ·at your location.
12· · · · Throughout these hearings, I will be chairing the
13· ·meetings from the hall here in Pond Inlet.· To my left
14· ·is Catherine Emrick, and to my right is Madeleine
15· ·Qumuatuq.· We are the three-member Panel responsible
16· ·for decision-making in respect of the Phase 2
17· ·development project.
18· · · · The Panel is supported in Pond Inlet, Iqaluit, and
19· ·on the phone by several members of the Board staff and
20· ·our legal counsel.· In the interest of time, I won't
21· ·reintroduce them all to you, but if you need
22· ·assistance, please look for the people with the NIRB
23· ·badges, and they will help you out.
24· · · · Before we conclude the questioning of Baffinland
25· ·about their terrestrial environment presentation, I
26· ·want to advise everyone that the Panel's decisions and
·1· ·procedural direction in respect of the four written
·2· ·motions filed with the Board on Tuesday will be
·3· ·provided at the close of this afternoon's session.
·4· · · · Everyone watching and listening these proceedings
·5· ·over the past four days has undoubtedly been moved by
·6· ·the heartfelt and passionate debate about the topics
·7· ·discussed so far.· Parties have many questions and
·8· ·sometimes strongly disagree with each other's
·9· ·viewpoints.· However, some comments have been personal,
10· ·unfair, and unkind to other people or organizations.
11· ·This is unacceptable.· While the Board too feels the
12· ·weight of these proceedings, belittling others has no
13· ·place in these proceedings.· The Nunavut Impact Review
14· ·Board expects everyone participating in these important
15· ·meetings to avoid personal attacks on other parties or
16· ·the Board and staff and to respect the directions of
17· ·the Board.
18· · · · If COVID-19 has taught us anything, it is that we
19· ·are all in this together.· Let us not forget this
20· ·lesson even if we disagree and are overcome by strong
21· ·emotions.· As I indicated yesterday, the last three
22· ·presentations by Baffinland are topics that were not
23· ·presented during the public hearing proceedings in
24· ·November 2019.· As a result, the Board is not putting a
25· ·limit on questions that intervenors may ask.· However,
26· ·the Board appreciates the efforts of all parties to
·1· ·keep their questions short and to the point.· Don't
·2· ·repeat questions that have already been asked and
·3· ·answered, and we ask parties to be prepared to ask
·4· ·their questions or provide answers when I turn the
·5· ·microphone to you.
·6· · · · Community representatives are waiting patiently so
·7· ·that they can ask their questions and provide their
·8· ·comments to the Board.· They are waiting to hear the
·9· ·positions of intervenors, so we ask that you respect
10· ·the time allotted for them and keep your questions
11· ·concise.
12· · · · And now I turn to questions from the intervenors
13· ·in relation to the unresolved technical issues arising
14· ·from the terrestrial environment presentation.
15· ·Starting where we left off yesterday, the
16· ·Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization,
17· ·Lori Idlout.
18· ·Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization
19· ·Questions Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
20· ·MS. EEGEESIAK:· · · · · ·If it's okay, I ask your legal
21· ·advisor since Lori cannot be here today, if we could
22· ·replace her.
23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Go ahead.· It's fine.
24· ·MS. EEGEESIAK:· · · · · ·Okalik Eegeesiak from the
25· ·Hunters and Trappers Association from Ikajutit.· We're
26· ·with Moses Koonoo.· He said he could -- was able to ask
·1· ·questions since Lori is not here.
·2· · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· First I would like to
·3· ·echo that NIRB posting documents on their website is
·4· ·not sufficient.· When Baffinland says that documents
·5· ·have been in the public registry, not only is
·6· ·Baffinland not answering questions for us here in
·7· ·Iqaluit, for people in Pond Inlet, people on Zoom and
·8· ·on telephone, and they're not answering questions for
·9· ·the record.· So we end up spending our time looking for
10· ·these -- those documents.
11· · · · When we are spending our time looking for
12· ·documents, we are prevented from digging deeper into
13· ·other detail that we would have sought information on.
14· ·As I have said, it is very difficult to find these
15· ·documents on NIRB registry.· I have more than three
16· ·questions and, again, echo other intervenors that this
17· ·process is limiting intervenor inclusion and
18· ·participating as each day passes, and we are behind and
19· ·likely, if other things don't change, we will be
20· ·rushed.
21· · · · Before I ask my questions to Baffinland, as per
22· ·Peter's request yesterday, could you please have
23· ·translated and made available in both -- in both -- in
24· ·print at both hubs the charts on Slides 6 and 7 and
25· ·inform us which Inuktitut term is correct on Slides 31
26· ·and 32?· The translations in adaptive management are
·1· ·different.· Please let us know when these are done.
·2· · · · And when I -- when I, Okalik Eegeesiak, was
·3· ·talking about the lack of Inuktitut translators for us,
·4· ·I understand Baffinland said yesterday or the day
·5· ·before that they have their own translators and
·6· ·interpreters, and we don't have that kind of resources.
·7· · · · I'm going into Lori's questions since she has more
·8· ·than three questions.· On Slide 4 in relation to
·9· ·Technical Supporting Document 12, on birds, you say in
10· ·the report on page 80 -- or 101 of -- on the PDF format
11· ·that:· (as read)
12· · · · Baffinland conducted a number of public
13· · · · consultation meetings and personal --
14· · · · personal interviews to receive information on
15· · · · baseline data and -- and to scope potential
16· · · · issues of perceived project effects for the
17· · · · approved project.
18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·You can --
19· ·MS. EEGEESIAK:· · · · · ·In the following page, you
20· ·have quotes of Inuit.
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Okalik, if you can slow down
22· ·for the interpreters.
23· ·MS. EEGEESIAK:· · · · · ·I'll repeat the page number or
24· ·the -- what we're referring to.· (as read)
25· · · · Baffinland conducted a number of public
26· · · · consultation meetings and personal interviews
·1· · · · to receive information on baseline data and
·2· · · · to scope potential issues of perceived
·3· · · · project effects for the approved project.
·4· ·And in the following page, you have quotes of Inuit
·5· ·from Inuit.· Are these quotes what you consider a
·6· ·formation of your baseline data?· Madam Chair.
·7· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·8· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·9· · · · Madam Chair, the quotes provided are to provide
10· ·some insight without having to read the entire
11· ·document, and, yes, they form part of the baseline of
12· ·the information that was used in the assessment.· Thank
13· ·you.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters
15· ·and Trappers Organization, Okalik Eegeesiak.
16· ·MS. EEGEESIAK:· · · · · ·Thank you, Chairperson.
17· · · · Just to expand on that -- on those quotes, some of
18· ·the quotes include:· (as read)
19· · · · Birds and eggs are also harvested during this
20· · · · period, late May to July.
21· ·We're providing -- we want to highlight these quotes
22· ·because they provide some -- some context into the next
23· ·two questions.
24· · · · Another question is:· (as read)
25· · · · Birds, including geese and murres are
26· · · · harvested during this season.· We also see
·1· · · · snow buntings during this time, late May to
·2· · · · July.
·3· ·Another -- one more quote that we'd like to provide as
·4· ·an example:· (as read)
·5· · · · Snow geese egg harvesting beginning the
·6· · · · second week of June.
·7· ·Do you confirm that these are what you mean by Inuit
·8· ·knowledge?· Madam Chair.
·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
10· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
11· · · · Yes.· This is information that was shared with us
12· ·by Inuit through workshops and meetings, so, yes, we
13· ·believe this is Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit.· Thank you.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters
15· ·and Trappers Organization, Okalik Eegeesiak.
16· ·MS. EEGEESIAK:· · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
17· · · · Would you agree that these types of Inuit
18· ·knowledge is also qallunaaq knowledge that biologists
19· ·and other scientists could -- have also given you this
20· ·information, that what you say is Inuit knowledge or
21· ·Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit is actually -- is not actually
22· ·used in your decision-making?· What actual Inuit
23· ·knowledge has been used?· Madam Chair.
24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
25· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
26· ·Thank you for the question.
·1· · · · I think this provides a good example, Madam Chair,
·2· ·where western science and Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit may
·3· ·align, and, yes, western science may be able to find or
·4· ·share the same types of information.· But the quotes
·5· ·provided were directly from Inuit who were partaking in
·6· ·those workshops.· For example, if we switch to caribou,
·7· ·our biologist, Mike Setterington, has said what they've
·8· ·learned about caribou movements in the North Baffin
·9· ·came exclusively from Inuit because scientists hadn't
10· ·been studying the area for as long as Inuit.· Thank
11· ·you.
12· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Clyde River Hamlet and Hunters
13· ·and Trappers Organization, Jerry Natanine.
14· ·Hamlet of Clyde River and Clyde River Hunters and
15· ·Trappers Organization Questions Baffinland Iron Ore
16· ·Corporation
17· ·MR. NATANINE:· · · · · · Thank you, Chairperson.· Good
18· ·morning.· I say good morning to those in Pond Inlet.
19· · · · I'll speak in English.· Some of the things in this
20· ·project proposal are so -- so obviously wrong and
21· ·couldn't be fixed.· You know, it would be good if they
22· ·were more receptive to our suggestions like those dust
23· ·collectors up at the mine site.· They said they were
24· ·going to lower them because that was suggested, and
25· ·they didn't do that.
26· · · · We suggested a different route that we would
·1· ·accept.· They wouldn't take that, and my question is
·2· ·regarding the rail, the train.· It's now obvious -- and
·3· ·I appreciate them for being direct about this -- that
·4· ·if the caribou were to come back up there, there will
·5· ·be caribou kills, being hit by the train.
·6· · · · And I'm trying and trying to think of how that
·7· ·could be positive, and I want to ask:· Is there a way
·8· ·to put something in front of the train that when it
·9· ·hits a caribou or a herd, the caribou don't go under
10· ·the train, just bounce off to the side, be picked up
11· ·and the meat saved?
12· · · · And our technical advisor, Dr. Warren Bernauer,
13· ·will have another question.· Thank you.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
15· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
16· · · · This is something that we can investigate further.
17· ·Thank you.
18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · · Clyde River Hamlet and
19· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization, Warren Bernauer.
20· ·MR. BERNAUER:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Can
21· ·you hear me clearly this time?
22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Yes, you can proceed.
23· ·MR. BERNAUER:· · · · · · Thank you very much.
24· · · · My next question pertains to the terrestrial
25· ·working group referenced on Slide 30.· So in some of
26· ·the statements that Baffinland has made, they seem to
·1· ·imply that these environmental working groups would
·2· ·deal primarily with the science side of adaptive
·3· ·management.· Will -- the Inuit committee would be in
·4· ·charge of the Inuit knowledge side of adaptive
·5· ·management?
·6· · · · And I just want to clarify.· Am I understanding
·7· ·you correctly that most of the scientific discussions
·8· ·would take place at the level of these working groups
·9· ·and the IQ discussion would be more focused on the
10· ·Inuit committee?· And if so, do you foresee any
11· ·problems with dividing Inuit knowledge and western
12· ·science in this way?· Thank you.
13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
14· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
15· · · · These working groups, yes, are predominantly
16· ·scientific advisory groups.· That's how they've been
17· ·established under the project certificate, and with the
18· ·development of the Inuit committees, we acknowledge
19· ·that there should be some connection between the two
20· ·groups.
21· · · · The Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization
22· ·are members of both the terrestrial and marine working
23· ·groups.· This can help provide information around land
24· ·use, specifically in the scientific discussions, but
25· ·what we've been in development of thinking about, Madam
26· ·Chair, is that the advisory groups, the scientific
·1· ·advisory groups, would provide recommendations which
·2· ·would then receive an Inuit lens through the Inuit
·3· ·committees.
·4· · · · I should note that the terms of reference for the
·5· ·Inuit committees are still to be developed, so the
·6· ·connection between the two groups may change, but
·7· ·that's currently how it's envisioned.· Thank you.
·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Clyde River Hamlet and Hunters
·9· ·and Trappers Organization, Warren Bernauer.
10· ·MR. BERNAUER:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
11· ·Warren Bernauer with the Hamlet of Clyde River and
12· ·Nangmautaq Hunters and Trappers Association.
13· · · · My final question for this round follows up on
14· ·issues raised by Paul Okalik from the World Wildlife
15· ·Fund.· In his response to Mr. Okalik, Mr. Kamermans
16· ·said that Baffinland would develop protocols for
17· ·temporary road and rail closures when caribou return to
18· ·the area in numbers that require it.· I'm just
19· ·wondering if Baffinland could provide a bit of
20· ·clarification here, how many caribou need to be in the
21· ·North Baffin region before it's necessary to develop
22· ·these mitigation measures.· Thank you.
23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
24· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
25· · · · Madam Chair, I'd like to ask Mike Setterington to
26· ·respond.· Thank you.
·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mike Setterington.
·2· ·MR. SETTERINGTON:· · · · Madam Chair, Mike Setterington
·3· ·for Baffinland.
·4· · · · The question, as I heard it, was about how many
·5· ·caribou will it take in the North Baffin region to
·6· ·implement mitigation measures.· Madam Chair, in order
·7· ·to implement mitigation measures, as we've describe
·8· ·many of them, it takes one caribou to be near the
·9· ·project to implement things like a caribou decision
10· ·tree for the road and rail.
11· · · · On the broader scale, Baffinland is looking at
12· ·further follow-up monitoring and research in line with
13· ·our contribution agreement with the Government of
14· ·Nunavut through the terrestrial working group.· In some
15· ·work we're doing, we are looking at monitoring triggers
16· ·and looking at the exact question of how many caribou
17· ·does it take to interact with the project before we'll
18· ·get meaningful information on how the project is truly
19· ·impacting caribou at the population scale.
20· · · · Basically, some of the preliminary findings from
21· ·that research is showing that we need 350 caribou in
22· ·35 individual groups that will be collared in order to
23· ·inform on project impacts.· Thank you, Madam Chair.
24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Amaruq Hunters and Trappers
25· ·Organization, Jeetaloo Kakee.
26· ·Amaruq Hunters and Trappers Organization Questions
·1· ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
·2· ·MR. KAKEE:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Chairperson.
·3· · · · This -- there are a lot of questions here, so I'm
·4· ·giving the questions to these things to my colleague
·5· ·here, Meeka Mike.
·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Meeka Mike.
·7· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Chairperson.· Meeka
·8· ·Mike from the Amaruq Hunters and Trappers.
·9· · · · We were not able to ask this question.· We wanted
10· ·to support Oceans North's motion.· Because they come
11· ·here, the belugas or the narwhals come here, in our
12· ·area, so I want to mention that first.· It's a
13· ·statement.· It's a support statement.
14· · · · And also supporting Okalik's questions in regards
15· ·to the questions for the Clyde River technical support.
16· ·Also somebody asked that already, one of my questions.
17· ·So for these -- for the Elders, that they seem to make
18· ·a statement or story when their thoughts are important,
19· ·and so although we should be saying some hurtful words
20· ·sometimes, the words that are given to us are hurtful.
21· · · · For Mike Setterington to comment on behalf of
22· ·Baffinland, he said when we're talking about birds, he
23· ·did not understand because they didn't know about
24· ·birds.· That's what he said.· So not to be opposing or
25· ·not to be argumentative, but sometimes those kind of
26· ·statements are not good to hear.
·1· · · · So the caribou question is:· How do they have --
·2· ·in terms of regulations or rules if people have
·3· ·questions, we always ask how long would it stop, how
·4· ·long would it be not moving if there are first and
·5· ·third -- first, second, and third herds in bunches
·6· ·passing through?
·7· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·8· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·9· · · · I believe that the question is -- is essentially
10· ·how often are the trains moving or stopped that would
11· ·allow caribou to cross, and the answer is they'll be --
12· ·the trains will essentially be continuously moving, but
13· ·they will be passing by any one spot every two to three
14· ·hours.· So there will be a larger window where there
15· ·will be no trains present at all, and if you were in a
16· ·single spot, either a land user or wildlife, it would
17· ·take approximately 60 seconds to 80 seconds for the
18· ·train to pass.
19· ·(VIDEO AND AUDIO FEED LOST)
20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
21· ·The feed is frozen.· Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.· The
22· ·feed froze in Pond Inlet.· If you can restate your
23· ·response or repeat your response.· Baffinland, Megan
24· ·Lord-Hoyle.
25· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
26· · · · I'll repeat what I said, Madam Chair, but I think
·1· ·I just received clarification on the question.· I had
·2· ·understood it as how often are trains going to be
·3· ·moving, and how long do they take to pass to allow
·4· ·wildlife to cross, and the answer to that is that
·5· ·trains will be continuously moving, but they'll pass a
·6· ·specific area every two to three hours, and it'll take
·7· ·approximately 60 to 80 seconds for that train to pass.
·8· ·So every two to three hours there will be a minute
·9· ·where a train is present.
10· · · · But I believe the question was if a train were to
11· ·stop to allow caribou to cross, how long would the
12· ·train be stationary for, and that would be a matter of
13· ·how long it takes for the caribou to cross.· So the
14· ·train would remain stopped for the period required to
15· ·allow the caribou to cross through safely and move away
16· ·from the train tracks.· Thank you.
17· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · (INUKTITUT SPOKEN - NO
18· ·TRANSLATION)
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Amaruq Hunters and Trappers
20· ·Organization.
21· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · Can I say something again?· We
22· ·were being skipped a couple times.· So in English we
23· ·were told that I was very quiet, so I tried to be
24· ·really loud.
25· · · · The question was:· In light of the mass migration
26· ·that comes down to South Baffin through the
·1· ·Ipkitiktookja [phonetic] from mainland, from Nunavik --
·2· ·mainland is Nunavik, not the Nunavik that is other
·3· ·modern region -- how long would the project stop?
·4· ·Because the first migrators, they're not the scouters
·5· ·in this case.· The smaller herds have scouters.
·6· ·They're the bulls, and they're the first ones.· Then
·7· ·there's second one, which is the greatest number, and
·8· ·if the third one decide to follow, how long would the
·9· ·train be stopped?· Because the mass migration is most
10· ·important for our area.· That have to pass through that
11· ·part.· Some of them will disperse for sure.· That's the
12· ·question.
13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
14· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
15· · · · I'll ask Mike Setterington to respond.· Thank you.
16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mike Setterington.
17· ·MR. SETTERINGTON:· · · · Madam Chair, Mike Setterington
18· ·for Baffinland.
19· · · · In response to -- to Meeka's question and her
20· ·certainly valuable operations on how the mass caribou
21· ·migration, certainly in southern Baffin, that is the
22· ·kind of information that we've been trying to
23· ·characterize since our early engagement with Inuit,
24· ·wondering how the caribou are going to come back.
25· · · · Again, this has been a key question for us and
26· ·something we have been trying to sort out in speaking
·1· ·with Inuit and engaging with the Government of Nunavut
·2· ·on the science side as well too, to try and figure out
·3· ·how the caribou are going to come back.
·4· · · · We have continuously been told -- and this -- this
·5· ·occurs right across the north -- about letting the
·6· ·leaders pass, and that sounds good, but Meeka is
·7· ·bringing up the question:· What exactly are the leaders
·8· ·when they come in waves, if they come in groups?· Is it
·9· ·the first caribou?· Is it -- is it the second group of
10· ·caribou or the third group of caribou?
11· · · · And, Madam Chair, again, I -- the -- the best
12· ·approach forward is to continue to work with -- with
13· ·Inuit and engage with Inuit as the caribou are coming
14· ·back.· We have the great opportunity right now to
15· ·continue working on this and study how this caribou
16· ·population will recover so Baffinland is prepared in
17· ·the decades to come when the caribou do return.
18· · · · How the railway is actually going to respond and
19· ·how we identify those leaders, Madam Chair, I think
20· ·that's a challenge -- I think that's a challenge for
21· ·all mining operations, including Baffinland.· I think,
22· ·again, we have the opportunity to be studying that and
23· ·learning that to be well prepared in the decades to
24· ·come.· Madam Chair, perhaps I'll return it to
25· ·Baffinland.
26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·1· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·2· · · · I think we'll leave it there, Madam Chair.· Thank
·3· ·you.
·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Amaruq Hunters and Trappers
·5· ·Organization, Meeka Mike.
·6· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
·7· · · · I did not say -- I did not say perhaps.· If I say
·8· ·perhaps, I tell you always like -- like, that's why we
·9· ·say -- the younger generation, that's why we respond in
10· ·such a negative manner, because we answer
11· ·automatically.
12· · · · Like, if -- in meadowlands -- at meadowlands,
13· ·there were caribou which did not cross for two days,
14· ·and they will just say even though the caribou do not
15· ·cross, will you keep saying that -- like, group of
16· ·caribou would not cross, so when they're actually
17· ·trying to cross, it's very apparent, and the Elders and
18· ·the hunters know, and my late father was there.
19· · · · Like, Inuit were the guides and leaders in our
20· ·hunting area.· They were the leaders.· So these are
21· ·some apparent signs that you have to look out for.· So
22· ·will we be in the same scenario?· Like, because
23· ·caribou, if they do not cross, then they will have to
24· ·go back.· Will you be on the same procedure?
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
26· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·1· · · · I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond.
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
·3· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
·4· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·5· · · · So our understanding of caribou in the North and
·6· ·South Baffin is that when they were in high numbers,
·7· ·you could find them walking through communities there
·8· ·were so many.· Other knowledge that's been shared with
·9· ·us has indicated that the North Baffin caribou herd
10· ·went from being in the area west of the tote road to
11· ·being to the -- to the east, meaning they all passed
12· ·over that -- that existing tote road that was there.
13· · · · Other knowledge that's been shared with us
14· ·indicates that nothing will stop the caribou from
15· ·crossing when their numbers return, but that doesn't
16· ·mean Baffinland won't do all that it can in terms of
17· ·implementing protections and mitigations along the
18· ·railway and tote road to facilitate this.
19· · · · This means implementing special management areas
20· ·where we believe caribou are more likely to cross,
21· ·building the railway in a way that makes it crossable,
22· ·but to put it simply, we need to put these mitigations
23· ·into place.· We'll need to monitor them to make sure
24· ·they're effective, and if there's more we can do, then
25· ·we have to be adaptable.· So that's why we put such a
26· ·focus on those three items in this assessment, and
·1· ·that's what gives us a high degree of certainty that we
·2· ·can manage this project effectively.· Thank you.
·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · · Amaruq Hunters and Trappers
·4· ·Association, Meeka Mike.
·5· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · This previous question was in
·6· ·reference to Paul Okalik's question on Wednesday, and
·7· ·my question is from -- in supporting what he was saying
·8· ·about Meadowbank.· My question is -- you said that,
·9· ·yes, you got shared traditional knowledge, that nothing
10· ·stops caribou from crossing.· Do you know which
11· ·migration that is from?· I'm asking that when us South
12· ·Baffin people are aware of those.· Is it just crossing
13· ·to get within where they're -- where they're going or
14· ·from region to region?· Transitional -- traditional
15· ·region, the transitional regions by wildlife.
16· · · · Those kind of answers does not help to make
17· ·decisions when you try and apply what you heard to
18· ·everything from one -- one community or one area or
19· ·Inuit are used to working before European.· This was
20· ·always our number one priority, consulting from between
21· ·South Baffin and North Baffin on the west side of
22· ·Baffin Island.· So is that what -- you're applying that
23· ·to crossing just one river or crossing a lake?
24· ·Qujannamiik.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
26· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·1· · · · Thank you for the -- for the comments and
·2· ·questions and -- and clarifying.· I think what we're --
·3· ·what Baffinland is also trying to say is that we don't
·4· ·understand caribou behaviour at that level of detail.
·5· ·What we've learned about caribou movements has been
·6· ·from the North Baffin region and has been from engaging
·7· ·with Inuit who have been present or have learned
·8· ·experiences from when caribou were in higher numbers in
·9· ·the region.· One of shared thoughts about their
10· ·movements and patterns and have shared with us
11· ·potential options to put in place for mitigation
12· ·measures for the rail, including things like ensuring
13· ·that the first caribou moves over and the caribou
14· ·behind will follow.· So we have to set up our
15· ·operations that will allow that to happen.
16· · · · But we recognize that our job isn't done and that
17· ·we're going to have to continue seeking feedback from
18· ·Inuit now and throughout the operations to understand
19· ·better how caribou -- when they're starting to come
20· ·back into the area, how they're moving and how they're
21· ·behaving, which can then influence our operational
22· ·chances.
23· · · · So in some ways, we do not want to put such rigid
24· ·or fixed operational procedures in place right now.· We
25· ·want to make sure that we can be responsive to what
26· ·we're learning and seeing by working with Inuit in the
·1· ·years to come.· Thank you.
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Government of Nunavut, Natalie
·3· ·O'Grady.
·4· ·MS. O'GRADY:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·5· ·Natalie O'Grady, Government of Nunavut.
·6· · · · We heard a really good question from Qikiqtani
·7· ·Inuit Association on having the caribou protection
·8· ·measures updated in the terrestrial environment
·9· ·management plan with that working group.· We had the
10· ·same question of the proponent, heard the response,
11· ·that there will be commitment to use that working group
12· ·for that matter.· We're very supportive of Qikiqtani
13· ·Inuit Association's initiative in that and would like
14· ·to just offer the Government of Nunavut's -- I guess
15· ·either.· If it's amenable to both parties, we can be
16· ·involved in drafting that commitment language as well.
17· · · · We also heard a very good question from David Lee
18· ·from Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated on the use of horns
19· ·and whistles.· There's a potential mitigation measure
20· ·that's outside of the scope of this particular
21· ·assessment that we can have further discussion on with
22· ·communities, the proponent, and the Qikiqtani Inuit
23· ·Association that Transport Canada offered last time in
24· ·the third technical meeting.· So we can have more
25· ·discussions on that outside of this particular hearing.
26· · · · We do need to follow up with Baffinland, and I
·1· ·have some additional clarifications on the July 23rd,
·2· ·2019, memo, but we can do that offline outside of this.
·3· ·I've heard lots of questions about the agreement in
·4· ·principle, the contribution agreements, and we look
·5· ·forward to updating parties on that in our
·6· ·presentation.
·7· · · · I would like to note that, you know, Government of
·8· ·Nunavut is always willing to work with -- with parties
·9· ·on these matters.· We try very hard to be open and to
10· ·hear from people.· We were listening intently to -- to
11· ·these concerns but just would like to note that
12· ·communication is also a two-way street, as they say,
13· ·but just know that we're always available, and any
14· ·parties in here in Pond Inlet or in Iqaluit, please
15· ·don't hesitate to speak with any of our -- our team, to
16· ·ask questions or request information, additional
17· ·information.· So I just wanted to put that out there.
18· · · · For this second round of questioning, though, we
19· ·have no further questions on this matter for the -- the
20· ·sake of time.· Thank you.
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·World Wildlife Fund, Paul
22· ·Okalik.
23· ·World Wildlife Fund Questions Baffinland Iron Mines
24· ·Corporation
25· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · Madam Chair.
26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Meeka Mike.
·1· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
·2· · · · Paul Okalik was supposed to fly to Pond Inlet
·3· ·today.· He's probably in flight.
·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·World Wildlife Fund, Andrew
·5· ·Dumbrille.
·6· ·MR. DUMBRILLE:· · · · · ·Hello, Chair.· Can -- hello,
·7· ·Chair.· Thanks very much.· Andrew Dumbrille from World
·8· ·Wildlife Fund and filling in for Paul here.· Thanks,
·9· ·Meeka Mike.· He's travelling to Pond Inlet this
10· ·morning.
11· · · · And then -- so my first question, Slide 24, the
12· ·caribou decision-making framework appears to be draft
13· ·and in need of much more time, attention, and study.
14· ·My question:· How has Baffinland incorporated Inuit
15· ·Qaujimajatuqangit into the caribou decision-making
16· ·framework, and where are the numbers of caribou in each
17· ·step of the framework?· For instance, would a single
18· ·caribou trigger these mitigation actions?· Would
19· ·Baffinland agree that more studying needs to be
20· ·undertaken with the framework before a decision on
21· ·Phase 2 can be considered?· Thank you.
22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
23· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
24· · · · I'll ask Lou Kamermans to provide a response.
25· ·Thank you.
26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
·1· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
·2· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·3· · · · These -- this decision framework, as I explained
·4· ·yesterday, has evolved from our road decision
·5· ·framework, which was developed for the early revenue
·6· ·phase.· That program was developed based on the
·7· ·understanding that to let caribou pass, you have to let
·8· ·the leader pass.· The rest will follow.· So that was
·9· ·essentially the -- the entire premises for the
10· ·framework.
11· · · · The distances are -- are more operational
12· ·constraints.· 250 metres as opposed to the 100 metres
13· ·for the -- the road framework is based on the site
14· ·lines that are possible from being more elevated in the
15· ·terrain than as opposed to the road, but it also lines
16· ·up with how far the headlights and sidelights from the
17· ·train can see in the dark, so we can operationalize it
18· ·at any time of the year.
19· · · · Again, I want to stress that these are measures
20· ·that an operator may be able to implement.· It will
21· ·influence their decision-making, but we'll always be
22· ·subject to their -- their discretion on -- on what is
23· ·the safest path to take.
24· · · · As for the number of caribou at each stage, a
25· ·single caribou would trigger that decision-making
26· ·process for the operator.· So there's no need to add
·1· ·additional caribou or group sizes to that outside of
·2· ·the -- the migratory condition at the beginning.· And,
·3· ·yes, there was always the intent that these would be
·4· ·finalized with input from both the Terrestrial
·5· ·Environment Working Group as well as the Inuit
·6· ·committee.· Qujannamiik.
·7· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·World Wildlife Fund, Andrew
·8· ·Dumbrille.
·9· ·MR. DUMBRILLE:· · · · · ·Thank you, Chair.· Thank you,
10· ·Baffinland.
11· · · · It's -- it's striking to WWF that so much more
12· ·needs to be done and studied and considered, much more
13· ·engagement before -- before decisions can be made on
14· ·many factors with this -- with this project.
15· · · · My second question is picking up on what was
16· ·mentioned yesterday about special management areas
17· ·along the railway.· How were these developed?· Thank
18· ·you.
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
20· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
21· · · · I'm ask Lou Kamermans to respond.· Thank you.
22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
23· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
24· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
25· · · · I just want to clarify, in my response, I did not
26· ·indicate that anything else needed to be studied. I
·1· ·think we have a good rationale for the measures as they
·2· ·are, and -- and I think it's good practice to have the
·3· ·Inuit committee and the Terrestrial Environment Working
·4· ·Group review them before they're finalized.· That's --
·5· ·that's a perfectly natural progression towards
·6· ·finalization of a document like this.
·7· · · · It's also not required to finalize all documents
·8· ·before a public hearing.· You need time to work based
·9· ·on additional guidance that can -- that can come out of
10· ·a public hearing from both the Nunavut Impact Review
11· ·Board as well as the minister.
12· · · · As for the establishment of the special management
13· ·areas along the railway, that work was initiated first
14· ·through the rail workshop we held at the mine site in
15· ·July and August 2019, and that work will be further
16· ·progressed through additional IQ studies as committed
17· ·to with the Qikiqtani Inuit Association following
18· ·project approval but before railway construction.
19· · · · I just want to point out that the railway cannot
20· ·be constructed before we receive a Fisheries Act
21· ·authorization, which requires a Nunavut Impact Review
22· ·Board approval.· So the initiation of that construction
23· ·isn't planned until the later part of 2022.
24· · · · So, again, we have time to do this before our
25· ·construction begins, and I think it's perfectly
26· ·acceptable what we've put forward at this point through
·1· ·the rail summary report as the base for that work in
·2· ·addition to all of the other work contained in our
·3· ·Technical Supporting Document 10 for wildlife as well
·4· ·as in our many IQ studies carried out since 2006 which
·5· ·have informed our understanding of caribou migration
·6· ·and presence in relation to the railway when their
·7· ·numbers return and as they transition to that return.
·8· ·Thank you.
·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·World Wildlife Fund, Andrew
10· ·Dumbrille.
11· ·MR. DUMBRILLE:· · · · · ·Thank you, Chair.· Andrew
12· ·Dumbrille, World Wildlife Fund.
13· · · · No further questions.· Thank you.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Oceans North, Christopher
15· ·Debicki.
16· ·Oceans North Questions Baffinland Iron Mines
17· ·Corporation
18· ·MR. DEBICKI:· · · · · · ·Christopher Debicki, Oceans
19· ·North.
20· · · · Madam Chair, I'll begin with a clarification with
21· ·respect to a question that was asked by my colleague
22· ·Ms. Joynt.· Now, Ms. Joynt asked the question, which
23· ·I'll paraphrase.· If the Milne railroad, the northern
24· ·railroad, is found to have significant effects on
25· ·terrestrial wildlife and if Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit and
26· ·western science or -- and/or western science identifies
·1· ·evidence to suggest that an additional railroad to
·2· ·Steensby Inlet would have significant cumulative
·3· ·adverse effects, what would happen in that scenario?
·4· · · · And my understanding from Ms. Lord-Hoyle's
·5· ·response is that Baffinland suggested that they've
·6· ·already produced a cumulative effects study, and so
·7· ·this has already been taken into account.· And so this
·8· ·is why, Madam Chair, I'm asking this morning for
·9· ·additional clarification.
10· · · · To be clear, Oceans North was asking about
11· ·potential real effects in -- in the real world, real
12· ·effects in a future scenario and not anticipated
13· ·effects of a desktop exercise.· And so I'll put that
14· ·question again to Ms. Lord-Hoyle.· Thank you, Madam
15· ·Chair.
16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
17· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
18· · · · The adaptive management framework that's been
19· ·discussed throughout these proceedings would apply to
20· ·the scenario being discussed.· Any learnings we have
21· ·from the northern rail would be applied to the
22· ·construction and development of the southern rail, so
23· ·additional mitigations that would be required or
24· ·avoidance of -- of impacts would be applied to the
25· ·construction and operation of the south rail.· Thank
26· ·you.
·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Oceans North, Christopher
·2· ·Debicki.
·3· ·MR. DEBICKI:· · · · · · ·Qujannamiik, Madam Chair.
·4· ·Christopher Debicki, Oceans North.
·5· · · · This is not a separate question.· It's not my
·6· ·second question, Madam Chair.· But just to -- just to
·7· ·clarify, does adaptive management -- from the
·8· ·proponent's perspective and their approach to adaptive
·9· ·management, do they not acknowledge that such
10· ·management could result in a situation under which it
11· ·will not be possible to build the southern railway
12· ·because of the terrestrial effects -- the real
13· ·terrestrial effects of the northern railway?· Thank
14· ·you, Madam Chair.
15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
16· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
17· · · · I think the -- the answer is both yes and no.· No,
18· ·we don't envision a scenario in which this happens
19· ·because we want to put all practices and procedures in
20· ·place to avoid real impacts where we would be faced
21· ·with that decision.· But should that occur, we would
22· ·have to evaluate at that time, and we would evaluate at
23· ·that time.· That's the level of management and
24· ·operational change that we've committed to under the
25· ·adaptive management framework.· Thank you.
26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Oceans North, Christopher
·1· ·Debicki.
·2· ·MR. DEBICKI:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· Just
·3· ·before I get to my second question, just one final
·4· ·clarification just so this is understood.
·5· · · · So just to be clear, the proponent accepts that
·6· ·there is a hypothetical possibility that there are real
·7· ·effects, terrestrial effects, such that it may not be
·8· ·possible to build the southern railway.· Yes or no?
·9· ·Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
11· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
12· · · · Yes.· We accept this very hypothetical situation
13· ·could occur, but it is not consistent with our
14· ·assessment or any of the practices we are putting in
15· ·place.· Thank you.
16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·It's almost 10:30.· We'll have
17· ·a break for 15 minutes.
18· ·(ADJOURNMENT)
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Welcome back, everyone.
20· ·Finishing off questions to the proponent.· Nunavut
21· ·Impact Review Board staff.
22· ·MR. BARKER:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
23· · · · Nunavut Impact Review Board staff.· We have no
24· ·questions at this time.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Some community members
26· ·identified that they had some questions as well.· The
·1· ·first one is Caleb Ootoova.
·2· ·Caleb Ootoova (Elder) Questions Baffinland Iron Mines
·3· ·Corporation
·4· ·MR. OOTOOVA:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Chairperson.
·5· ·Caleb -- I'm Caleb Ootoova from Pond Inlet.
·6· · · · I just wanted to mention a story about the hunting
·7· ·area this spring and this summer.· If there's a map, it
·8· ·would be good, but for those that don't live around
·9· ·here, they could understand.· For those that are --
10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·What kind of map?· Milne Inlet
11· ·area or the mainland?
12· ·MR. OOTOOVA:· · · · · · ·Including Milne Inlet and
13· ·before Milne Inlet, if you could.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · · (NO ENGLISH FEED) have some
15· ·maps of the North Baffin area that includes Milne
16· ·Inlet?
17· ·MR. OOTOOVA:· · · · · · ·If it's not available, it's
18· ·okay.
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, do you have a
20· ·slide that you could suggest?· Megan Lord-Hoyle.
21· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · There will be maps of the
22· ·general project area in both the introduction
23· ·presentation, but perhaps the marine presentation might
24· ·be a better place to look if it's specifically for
25· ·Milne Inlet.· I don't have an exact slide number with
26· ·me at the moment.
·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·The project area, the general
·2· ·project area.· Is there a map in the terrestrial
·3· ·presentation and the slide number?
·4· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Slide 28 in the overview
·5· ·presentation, Slide Number 2 in the terrestrial
·6· ·presentation, and I believe there is also maps posted
·7· ·in the Pond Inlet community hall as well.· Thank you,
·8· ·Madam Chair.
·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·If the tech staff can please
10· ·pull up the one from the terrestrial presentation.· Is
11· ·that adequate?
12· ·MR. OOTOOVA:· · · · · · ·It's -- it's not exactly in
13· ·that area.· I'm talking about the area where I usually
14· ·have camping.· It's okay.· I'll just speak to it.
15· · · · While we're out on the land in the spring and the
16· ·summer, perhaps 35 miles away -- while we're out on the
17· ·land there, there was something noticeable recently.
18· ·One of the inlets, the other inlet, there used to be
19· ·narwhal that would go in there, not every day but they
20· ·would go in the inlet, so they would go inside the
21· ·inlet and then they would go back out.
22· · · · So recently in the last three years, we haven't
23· ·seen anything going on like that.· So this is
24· ·noticeable.
25· · · · And the other thing, on the beach there used to be
26· ·lots of fish there where we live, especially the
·1· ·inlets.· They had a lot of fish.· So if we put our nets
·2· ·in and we just need to get them out and stretch them
·3· ·out for a little bit, and would pull them in because
·4· ·they're full now.
·5· · · · Now recently, maybe four or five or six fish all
·6· ·day is what it is like.· If it's all night, maybe
·7· ·three -- maybe three or four overnight.
·8· · · · Also, there's an area there.· It's called
·9· ·"Iqaluit".· It has a lake.· My son-in-law was fishing
10· ·there recently last month, and he was gone about six
11· ·days, and he caught three fish.
12· · · · And also towards Milne Inlet there's a place
13· ·called "Tugaat", and it has very little fish as well.
14· ·And also close to Milne Inlet there is also Koluktoo --
15· ·it's called "Koluktoo", and they have two big lakes,
16· ·maybe three, and there's also (INUKTITUT SPOKEN - NO
17· ·TRANSLATION) to Tremblay Sound, close to that that has
18· ·fish, and even that area has very little fish.· So when
19· ·they're going up the river, there used to be lots of
20· ·fish.
21· · · · And something I noticed as well and would be part
22· ·of my question, so past Mary River, there's a big --
23· ·from the Mary River side there's a big lake.· It
24· ·doesn't flow to this area -- to our ocean.
25· · · · This big lake -- huge lake used to have lots of
26· ·fish.· While I was there caribou hunting in that area
·1· ·last year, it had brown -- a brown colour all the way
·2· ·down on the snow from the dust -- from the Mary River
·3· ·dust.· If environment could notice that, Environment
·4· ·Canada and Department of Environment would notice that,
·5· ·our area is not very good anymore.
·6· · · · And this plan for a Phase 2 proposal -- so how are
·7· ·we, in this area, are we going to be able to live now?
·8· ·The hunting area where we had freedom to hunt, so --
·9· ·with the winters being long and harvesting time in the
10· ·spring and the summer, it should be a good harvesting
11· ·area.· People should be free to harvest.· It's
12· ·different now.
13· · · · And Baffinland indicates that they are managing
14· ·things well and their trucks that are loaded with --
15· ·ore trucks, they still don't have covers on them.
16· ·They're not even -- you know, put a tarp on it or
17· ·something so the dust is going everywhere either by
18· ·wind -- the dust get carried away.· So the question:
19· ·If the railroad is to be continuing, so would the ore
20· ·loaded on the rail car be covered so that the dust
21· ·doesn't go everywhere?
22· · · · I would like to have an answer to that question,
23· ·if there would be covers or tarps or something to cover
24· ·them.· That is my thought.· Thank you for giving me the
25· ·opportunity to comment.
26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·1· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·2· ·Thank you for sharing your comments and for asking the
·3· ·question.
·4· · · · I'll start by answering the question first.· No.
·5· ·At this time we don't envision having covers on the
·6· ·rail cars, and there's a number of different reasons
·7· ·for that.· Largely, the dust that's produced now along
·8· ·the transportation corridor is from the trucks
·9· ·themselves on the road.· When we move into Phase 2,
10· ·those big ore trucks are going to come off the road,
11· ·and all the ore will be moved by rail.
12· · · · We're also changing our crushing process.· So ore
13· ·will not be crushed at the mine site to the smaller
14· ·sizes that they are right now before they're moved.
15· ·That crushing to break the ore into smaller sizes will
16· ·now happen at the port site in an indoor facility.
17· ·With these measures, we believe that there will be a
18· ·big reduction in dust along the transportation
19· ·corridor.
20· · · · That said, we have agreed to look at placing
21· ·covers over the ore rail cars if it's determined that
22· ·that would help if we see dust that is coming out of
23· ·those ore cars.
24· · · · So right now we don't propose to use it.· We don't
25· ·think it will be needed, but if it is needed, it's
26· ·something that we can consider in the future.
·1· · · · I also just wanted to share in terms of the fish
·2· ·in the areas that were mentioned, we have provided to
·3· ·the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization a
·4· ·proposed study design for their advice on the design
·5· ·and the methods to be used to study fish in the three
·6· ·areas you mentioned, Iqaluit Lake, Koluktoo, and the
·7· ·Tugaat River.· Thank you.
·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Pond Inlet, Kaujak Komangapik.
·9· ·Is she here?
10· ·Kaujak Komangapik (Elder) Questions Baffinland Iron
11· ·Mines Corporation
12· ·MS. KOMANGAPIK:· · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
13· · · · The question I have, Caleb Ootoova from Pond Inlet
14· ·has already mentioned it a little bit.· It's basically
15· ·the same question.· I had this question:· This dust
16· ·coming from the mine site -- the dust that is coming
17· ·from there, from the mine site, from what you are
18· ·mining, it comes from that mine site, the red dust.
19· · · · The trucks you -- from the tires on the trucks, it
20· ·doesn't come from those tires.· It goes -- it's
21· ·directly from the dust.· That really nice iron that you
22· ·like, the dust comes from there.· It's iron ore, and
23· ·it -- and it disperses a long ways, even as close to
24· ·Hall Beach.
25· · · · So the question is:· As Baffinland, are you
26· ·planning -- for this Phase 2 expansion proposal, you
·1· ·want to iron -- mine more iron.· So the hunters and
·2· ·Pond Inlet residents and the Hamlet of Pond Inlet will
·3· ·be the most affected, especially those of us in Pond
·4· ·Inlet will be most affected.· Even if there is
·5· ·pollution, are you going to be acting like you don't
·6· ·know, or are you going to respond quickly to the
·7· ·concerns?· That's my question because -- the reason I'm
·8· ·asking, and it's information.· When we, as hunters, it
·9· ·was a problem for us, as a Pond Inlet harvester and
10· ·hunter, to have country food, especially us that have
11· ·country food.· It seems to be a lot of pollution over
12· ·the years, but Baffinland, they took a long time to
13· ·review the effects, and they are finding from the
14· ·hunters and the harvesters -- the hunters were the ones
15· ·who brought in the problem, and they're the ones that
16· ·noted that there was an issue, and this is what is
17· ·causing us to be in difficulty because we're the ones
18· ·that gave that information, and you are now asking for
19· ·a larger proposal, and you'll be touching the
20· ·environment of the ocean close to this community and
21· ·the caribou hunting area and the fishing area and the
22· ·beautiful places of camping that we go.· These are the
23· ·areas that you will be touching.· Are you going to be
24· ·taking a long time to inform people if there are
25· ·effects?· Thank you, Chairman, for the anticipated
26· ·answer.
·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·2· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·3· · · · Thank you for those comments.· I want to first
·4· ·start by acknowledging, yes, we know that dust is
·5· ·produced from the mine site and that it's travelling
·6· ·much further and can be seen much further than we
·7· ·expected, and we learned that from hunters who are
·8· ·travelling through the area.
·9· · · · What we're introducing with the Phase 2 proposal
10· ·are a few changes in our process with the goal of
11· ·reducing dust further by not crushing the same way we
12· ·do at the mine site right now and by changing our
13· ·transportation method and by not moving smaller pieces
14· ·of ore down the tote road or down the rail.
15· · · · I'll also acknowledge that we didn't communicate
16· ·as quickly as we should have around what it was that we
17· ·were doing in response to what we were hearing, and the
18· ·community of Pond Inlet did deserve to know that we
19· ·were acting in response to what we heard.
20· · · · We've been hearing for a number of years that dust
21· ·has been travelling far away from the mine site, and so
22· ·our first actions were to investigate the sources of
23· ·dust at site, and we've been over the years adding more
24· ·and more measures to reduce dust produced where we're
25· ·finding the biggest sources of dust.
26· · · · We've also -- in addition to hearing stories from
·1· ·hunters or those who are travelling through the area,
·2· ·we've also added satellite imagery, which helps us
·3· ·understand how far dust can be seen.· It may not be
·4· ·able to be detected using our monitoring methods, but
·5· ·it can still be seen.
·6· · · · So in our current operations, we're trying to get
·7· ·a better handle on dust sources and what we can do to
·8· ·prevent it from moving further, and we're also planning
·9· ·through the Phase 2 to introduce a number of new
10· ·techniques that will also help reduce dust in the
11· ·environment.
12· · · · We do release all the results of our monitoring
13· ·programs every year, and we come to the community of
14· ·Pond Inlet, specifically, a number of times throughout
15· ·the year, to discuss results and what we're doing about
16· ·monitoring, but we know that that information has to
17· ·get out to a bigger audience, the public, so we've been
18· ·trying new methods like Facebook, going on the radio to
19· ·try and reach more people, so not just those who we're
20· ·meeting with, to find out more about Baffinland and
21· ·what it's doing.· So thank you.· Your comments are very
22· ·much appreciated.· We take them to heart, and we'll --
23· ·we'll keep putting additional measures in place to
24· ·reduce dust and get more information to the public.
25· ·Thank you.
26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Kaujak Komangapik.
·1· ·MS. KOMANGAPIK:· · · · · Kaujak Komangapik from Pond
·2· ·Inlet.
·3· · · · Thank you, Chairperson.· Thank you for that
·4· ·answer.· Last question again.· It may not seem like a
·5· ·question.
·6· · · · As Inuit, we want to try to make sure you
·7· ·understand beforehand because we are beneficiaries and
·8· ·First Peoples on this land, and we survive with hunting
·9· ·and -- from a long time ago, so our upbringing is based
10· ·on getting food from out on the land.· So you're trying
11· ·to analyze and to monitor, and while you're trying to
12· ·do -- affecting the environment, is that how you're
13· ·going to do it while you -- so, for example, this dust
14· ·was creating an effect.· In all your operation and all
15· ·your mining, is it something that you are learning from
16· ·but at the same time you're still doing the work?· It's
17· ·like you're doing something to learn from something.
18· ·We don't want to be an example.· We don't want to be a
19· ·test site, especially with the people and the animals
20· ·and the wildlife because these are our basis for
21· ·living, not just the animals.· Because of our
22· ·traditional activities and our cultural ways, we are in
23· ·tune with the land.· And while you, it seems to be,
24· ·polluting the environment but also seem to be using it
25· ·as the project -- as a learning curve for your project.
26· · · · So for the Nunavut Impact Review Board, that you
·1· ·need to consider that -- give it serious consideration
·2· ·as a review board.· Are we a testing site?· Are we a
·3· ·learning site so that the plan is saying that they're
·4· ·going to be doing this?· There's a question mark. I
·5· ·think we're going to be doing this is a question mark.
·6· ·When you say "you think", we don't want any more word
·7· ·that says guuk, which means there's a doubt in that
·8· ·word.· You're not really sure.· And we don't think it's
·9· ·truth.· Even though there is a beautiful plan, it's
10· ·still a question mark.· We don't want to be a test
11· ·site.· Thank you.· That's the end of my comments. I
12· ·don't have any more questions, and once I sit, you can
13· ·answer that question.· Have a good day.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
15· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
16· ·Thank you for those comments and questions.
17· · · · We do not view the operation or impacts on any of
18· ·the communities as a test site.· We've built very large
19· ·and comprehensive assessments based on science, based
20· ·on experiences elsewhere, based on Inuit knowledge that
21· ·has been shared with us to assess what we believe may
22· ·happen if we are to expand the current operations.· So
23· ·what we base this process on is an understanding of
24· ·what we predict will happen, but then what's critical
25· ·to that process and all of the oversight of the project
26· ·from Inuit, regulators, the Nunavut Impact Review
·1· ·Board, is to monitor whether those predictions were
·2· ·right or if they were wrong.· And if they're wrong,
·3· ·then we have a process that will ensure that we change
·4· ·our operations in response to what we're seeing.
·5· · · · So we are learning, but the good part about the
·6· ·learning is that we can make changes, and we can adjust
·7· ·the operations.· And what we've recently committed to
·8· ·is that who will be identifying those changes will be
·9· ·Inuit, and who will be monitoring those changes are
10· ·Inuit.· So they'll be able to share with us early
11· ·warning signs of when we need to get ready to make
12· ·changes.· And that's what we have committed to do and
13· ·what we'll continue to do.· Thank you.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·An Elder from Iqaluit, Simon
15· ·Idlout.
16· ·Simon Idlout (Elder) Questions Baffinland Iron Mines
17· ·Corporation
18· ·MR. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · Am I ready?· My name is Simon
19· ·Idlout, and I live in Resolute Bay.
20· · · · I am a participant here to listen about the Mary
21· ·River Project, and I used to live in Pond Inlet.· Now I
22· ·live in Resolute Bay.
23· · · · The topic that was mentioned earlier, we did
24· ·most -- all of the Inuit did not really like that
25· ·because we live in the high Arctic.· The snow is all
26· ·red now, and geese and rabbit and other terrestrial
·1· ·animals are all red.· The reason -- like, because
·2· ·people of Pond Inlet are in a dire situation, and we
·3· ·live in the high Arctic at Resolute Bay, and, to date,
·4· ·we have not been impacted yet by the dust.
·5· · · · Those communities which have been impacted by the
·6· ·dust, we as Inuit and Elders relied on food -- Inuit
·7· ·food, so our country food.· But I just want to say --
·8· ·and the second one, I have heard something -- pleasant
·9· ·news in regards to all the dust, how -- I'm glad that
10· ·you're trying to have some mitigation issues to handle
11· ·the dust.· Now it's going to be crushed at Milne Inlet.
12· ·That's good to hear.· We want the mining operation to
13· ·run smoothly and the people of Pond Inlet to be much
14· ·happier because of these issues, mitigation issues.· So
15· ·that was something that I thought about.
16· · · · I asked my fellow board members, What kind of
17· ·topics will I bring?· They just told me, Oh, you will
18· ·handle it, and I am grateful that the proponent will be
19· ·reverting to the rail cars carrying uncrushed ore to
20· ·load the ships.· When I heard that, only near the
21· ·shoreline you will be crushing the ore, and one can
22· ·foresee that all the dust will no longer be such a
23· ·problem because wildlife -- we rely on wildlife for
24· ·food, and we don't want negative impacts or eat food
25· ·that have been impacted by the dust or lead.
26· · · · I have gone to the Mary River area on more than
·1· ·one occasion to go hunting, and I was -- it was
·2· ·pleasant to hear some commenters saying, like, when the
·3· ·caribou -- you're going to -- the trains will have to
·4· ·wait for the first wave of caribou to cross over, and
·5· ·if one stops, all of them will return.· That is how all
·6· ·of wildlife behave.
·7· · · · Before we move to the marine environment
·8· ·presentation, I wanted to mention that -- that
·9· ·terrestrial animals -- and also sort of -- again, right
10· ·now there are too many wolves.· Like, the -- please --
11· ·the mining companies, please kill these wolves.· So you
12· ·will be able to -- you should be able to kill wolves
13· ·for the sake of protecting.· Some wolves are very fast,
14· ·even though the caribou are fast as well.· So if anyone
15· ·can hear me, please -- please kill all the wolves.
16· · · · And, secondly, we blame the ships.· People --
17· ·people blame the fish -- the ships.· There are lots of
18· ·orcas as well, killer whales.· How can we sort of
19· ·reduce the population of the killer whales because not
20· ·only ships are bothering the narwhals, killer whales
21· ·are also killing the narwhals.
22· · · · So I will end it for now.· At least I made a
23· ·comment.· So I will be -- I'm glad that there will be a
24· ·crusher at the Milne Inlet port site because I used to
25· ·work at the mine.· Like, if you transport the ore
26· ·without being crushed to the mine -- to the Milne Inlet
·1· ·area, then it will be more appropriate if you crush it
·2· ·down there.
·3· · · · So if the project will continue, then Canada will
·4· ·generate some revenue.· I will end my comments for now,
·5· ·if I made sense.· Thank you.
·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·7· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·8· · · · Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the project
·9· ·and sharing some of the positive aspects that you see
10· ·from this proposal moving forward.· Thank you.
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Elder -- an Elder
12· ·from Mittimatalik, Elijah Panipakoocho.
13· ·MR. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · There was mention -- I will
14· ·end it for now.
15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Elijah.
16· ·Elijah Panipakoocho (Elder) Questions Baffinland Iron
17· ·Mines Corporation
18· ·MR. PANIPAKOOCHO:· · · · All ready?· Thank you.· Thank
19· ·you, Madam Chair.
20· · · · I just want to tell a short -- I want to make a
21· ·short comment.· In the past, 2011, yes, I was also
22· ·partaking narwhal monitoring at Bruce Head to see their
23· ·behaviour.· I was working there for numerous years
24· ·working for Baffinland and also with the caribou
25· ·monitoring.· We did aerial surveys counting the
26· ·narwhal -- caribou.· Like, when we were monitoring
·1· ·narwhal on top of Bruce Head before the ships arrive in
·2· ·August, we were counting the narwhal.· There were well
·3· ·over 30,000 in numbers entering that area, and
·4· ·sometimes we could not even count them because they
·5· ·were too numerous.· That was the case initially.· And
·6· ·as the years progressed, the number of narwhal seem to
·7· ·diminish and also Koluktoo -- Robertson -- Koluktoo
·8· ·Bay.· So they were moving to that area more.· You see a
·9· ·few narwhals passing by Bruce Head when narwhals --
10· ·iron ore carriers were in operation.
11· · · · And caribou in that area between Steensby Inlet
12· ·and Mary River, there used to be caribou and the
13· ·population numbers diminished -- start diminishing.
14· ·They were trying to cross over to the Mary River area,
15· ·but when they heard all the noise from the mining
16· ·operation, they return.· So that's something that I
17· ·want you to see about the behaviour.
18· · · · And the actual monitors do not really explain, but
19· ·I can, so that's what we observed by -- and we counted
20· ·the caribou via helicopter.· And, for example, we tried
21· ·to determine how many calves, and there were usually
22· ·around 200 calves that we counted when we were in that
23· ·area near Mary River.
24· · · · And as they start -- as the mining operation
25· ·increased, more ore was being mined, the marine mammals
26· ·near -- seals, not just narwhal, they did not really
·1· ·have an impact.· The mining did not really have an
·2· ·impact on narwhals or seal but as the iron ore carriers
·3· ·started to increase, there are hardly any more narwhal
·4· ·and only before the ships arrive during the spring you
·5· ·see lots of narwhals, then once the iron ore carriers
·6· ·start travelling, then they disappear, including the
·7· ·seals.
·8· · · · And right now this past winter we could travel
·9· ·everywhere.· Like, even though we're Elders, like,
10· ·it's -- hunting -- I enjoy hunting, going out.· We
11· ·really enjoy it.· Like, we want to eat something which
12· ·is not store bought.
13· · · · Today now -- even if you go seal hunting near Pond
14· ·Inlet area, you can't see any breathing holes, even
15· ·during the winter.· There are no ships.· That is the
16· ·case today.· Like, when you try to find breathing
17· ·holes, you cannot find any, even the area maybe perhaps
18· ·around 30 miles away at Levoiette [phonetic] Point.
19· ·Like, we used to go seal hunting during the winter.
20· ·Right now there are hardly any seal breathing holes.
21· ·It's almost a waste of time going there to hunt.
22· · · · And also near Button Wide -- Button Point.· We go
23· ·to Button Point during the winter and also the
24· ·situation is different.· Like, it's almost impossible
25· ·to hunt seals.· That is the case.· So that's a concern.
26· · · · Like, we support Mary River Project, but --
·1· ·there's a "but".· Like, if we increase the number of
·2· ·ships traversing through our area, then it is more
·3· ·likely that there will no longer be marine mammals in
·4· ·our future, I think, because we can relate to that
·5· ·because we live in this area.· That is the case today,
·6· ·and that's a fact.
·7· · · · Like, if we go out hunting, like, we can see it
·8· ·for sure and also go to the actual site.· And it was --
·9· ·I was also involved in monitoring narwhals at Milne
10· ·Inlet, and there were hardly any.· That is the case
11· ·today.· So if you get accurate stories about wildlife
12· ·monitors, then we've never actually heard them, even
13· ·though I am a member of the Hunters and Trappers
14· ·Organization.
15· · · · So, like, it's -- our future is uncertain when it
16· ·comes to marine mammals.· Like, when the mining
17· ·operation should end, then after that, I don't know how
18· ·long it would take for the wildlife to return to this
19· ·area; that you have to give this into consideration
20· ·that there are the communities which -- when I speak to
21· ·people, like, from Nanisivik -- like, from Arctic Bay,
22· ·for example, they always say -- they relate their
23· ·experience.· Thank you for listening.· That is it.
24· ·Thank you.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
26· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·1· ·Thank you, Elijah, for those comments.
·2· · · · In terms of some of your observations around the
·3· ·marine environment and declining wildlife, I think
·4· ·we'll touch more on that in the marine session, but
·5· ·specifically around seals, I just want to confirm that
·6· ·we are not proposing to ship during the winter months,
·7· ·so we'll be avoiding some of those sensitive seal time
·8· ·periods that you spoke to.· We would be looking to
·9· ·begin shipping in July based on the ice conditions in
10· ·any given year.
11· · · · But what you have just highlighted, observations
12· ·about wildlife abundance in the area and the importance
13· ·of country food to Pond Inlet specifically, that's
14· ·exactly why we want Inuit to be at front and centre
15· ·helping us manage this project and helping to define
16· ·how we're going to operate the Phase 2 proposal.
17· · · · I know that you've been a strong supporter of
18· ·monitoring over the years -- and I thank you for that
19· ·and your participation in a number of our monitoring
20· ·programs and the design of programs -- and we're going
21· ·to take that lesson learned and move forward with even
22· ·more and stronger Inuit-led programs.· Thank you.
23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Finishing up the section on
24· ·the terrestrial environment, any questions from the
25· ·Board?· Catherine.
26· ·Nunavut Impact Review Board Questions Baffinland Iron
·1· ·Mines Corporation
·2· ·MS. EMRICK:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· I'll
·3· ·combine two questions into one just for -- in the
·4· ·interests of time.
·5· · · · I'm wondering if Baffinland has consulted with
·6· ·Agnico Eagle on their caribou decision framework for
·7· ·the Meadowbank Mine road.· And, in relation to this,
·8· ·have you estimated or established the maximum number of
·9· ·days annually that the rail traffic could be stopped to
10· ·allow caribou to pass and still have the project remain
11· ·viable?· Thank you, Madam Chair.
12· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
13· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
14· ·Thank you for the question.
15· · · · I'm going to pass to Lou Kamermans, but before I
16· ·do, I'd just like to highlight that we actually had an
17· ·Inuk from the Kivalliq who works for Agnico Eagle
18· ·present at one of our rail workshops held at the mine
19· ·site, so this individual could help share some insights
20· ·from their operation and management of caribou, given
21· ·the larger number of caribou in the area.
22· · · · But to speak more directly to your question, I'll
23· ·pass to Lou Kamermans.· Thank you.
24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
25· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
26· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·1· · · · The modelling we've done to date or the
·2· ·simulations on our rail, we work with about 300 working
·3· ·days in the year.· Those other 64, 65 are anticipated
·4· ·downtime due to weather or due to maintenance, planned
·5· ·or unplanned, and could include the need to suspend
·6· ·operations for the passage of caribou when the
·7· ·migrations return.
·8· · · · That's not necessarily a fixed number.· We do have
·9· ·options where we could modify the train configurations.
10· ·We could have longer trains.· We could have more
11· ·shorter trains.· There's options that we could work
12· ·with that would require additional analysis, but there
13· ·is further investigation that could occur.
14· · · · This is also our rationale for operational
15· ·flexibility that's being proposed because we're
16· ·anticipating not being able to -- to transport and ship
17· ·12 million tonnes each year because of the mitigations
18· ·we're committing to, including the commitment not to
19· ·break land-fast ice or to have to shut the railway down
20· ·during certain periods of the year to allow caribou to
21· ·pass.
22· · · · So I think we're well prepared for this, and I
23· ·think our commitments in the adaptive management plan
24· ·that will be integrated into the terrestrial
25· ·environment working -- or mitigation and management
26· ·plan will also help us tailor the need for these
·1· ·temporary shutdowns to when they are required.
·2· · · · But just as a point of reference in the Kivalliq,
·3· · ·where Agnico Eagle shuts down its roads while caribou
·4· ·migrate, they were shut down for approximately 60 days
·5· ·in 2019, so that is within the scope of the planned
·6· ·downtime we have, and we could certainly coordinate
·7· ·those downtimes so that there's overlap.
·8· · · · But, ultimately, we will have to understand more
·9· ·about the caribou in our areas as they return in
10· ·greater numbers and how they will interact with our
11· ·railway and when and where they'll be most likely to
12· ·migrate over it.
13· · · · And I think it's important to note that we do have
14· ·good relationships with the other miners in Nunavut.
15· ·And talking about mitigation and what we can do to
16· ·manage caribou in relation to our railway and road, is
17· ·something that we can share knowledge of between all of
18· ·the mines.· Thank you.
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Any more questions from the
20· ·Board?· No?
21· · · · I have one question.· There's been a lot of
22· ·questions and concerns related to dust and the proposal
23· ·to build the rail.· Whether you're in an Inuit
24· ·community or a road on the outskirts of a community,
25· ·say, a mine road or community access road, especially
26· ·in the summer you can see lots of dust if the vehicle
·1· ·is moving -- if the vehicle is speeding.· And what
·2· ·you're proposing to do is build a rail, and it could be
·3· ·possibly over 60 cars connected to one train, and
·4· ·you're saying that it would reduce the impacts.
·5· · · · Without having seen a rail in a Nunavut
·6· ·environment moving across that kind of a surface, I'm
·7· ·asking Baffinland if you could explain, in more general
·8· ·terms, how using a rail would reduce dust?· Like, why
·9· ·does the dust level go down?· Is it because the way the
10· ·train is moving?· The speed?· And how does that reduce
11· ·the impacts to wildlife?· Like, when you're on the tote
12· ·road -- if you're driving on a road with a vehicle you
13· ·can stop, but on a train, as you said, it would take a
14· ·minute or longer for this very long locomotive to stop,
15· ·which, you know, when you picture it conceptually, it's
16· ·very different, especially if you saw wolves or foxes
17· ·or caribou trying to cross the rail.
18· · · · So can Baffinland clarify, based on your
19· ·assessment and what you're proposing to do, how that
20· ·could look like and why it reduces the impacts?
21· ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
22· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
23· · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
24· · · · And may I ask that Slide 23 from the terrestrial
25· ·presentation be put up in the background.· It will help
26· ·with my answer.· Thank you.· And thank you for allowing
·1· ·us to elaborate on this and to share what those who
·2· ·were at the workshop were able to see, but we do need
·3· ·to describe much better.
·4· · · · So you've raised some of the -- the biggest
·5· ·reasons why we're saying that moving to a rail
·6· ·operation will help reduce the dust.
·7· · · · What we have on the tote road right now are very
·8· ·large trucks that have a contact of the wheel on a
·9· ·gravel road, and so we need to try and use water or
10· ·other dust suppressants to compact that gravel to
11· ·reduce dust the same way as in communities, when
12· ·communities apply water on the road to try and stop the
13· ·wheels from digging up the dirt and spreading it
14· ·around.
15· · · · When we move to the rail operation, we're changing
16· ·what that contact surface is.· So what's shown in this
17· ·photo on the right is the rail embankment.· So the rail
18· ·embankment is going to be built of stone, so blasted
19· ·material, gravel -- larger pieces of gravel that will
20· ·build up to the height that's needed and to make sure
21· ·that there's a level surface.
22· · · · But then on top of that, there's going to be
23· ·wooden ties.· So at the top of what you see in this
24· ·photo, there will be wooden ties going across, and then
25· ·along the length of the rail line will be a steel
26· ·structure, and I believe yesterday that was referred to
·1· ·as a "super structure", so that's what's meant.· There
·2· ·is the height of the embankment, and then there's a
·3· ·couple of extra inches to the height, which is the wood
·4· ·ties and the steel track.
·5· · · · And then the train and the rail cars will have
·6· ·steel wheels -- metal wheels.· So it will actually be
·7· ·the action of metal on metal versus rubber on gravel.
·8· · · · Speeds play into this as well, and there will be
·9· ·speed controls on the train, but that is largely more
10· ·for safety reasons than for a dust control mechanism.
11· · · · Another piece that was touched on in the questions
12· ·just asked around covering ore trucks versus rail cars,
13· ·the rail cars themselves are not going to be filled up
14· ·to the top with ore.· The ore that's included in the
15· ·rail car is also going to be bigger pieces than is
16· ·currently moved along the tote road.· So the trucks
17· ·right now are filled up -- the back of them are filled
18· ·up with smaller pieces of ore than will be moved in the
19· ·rail before they go down to port to be crushed into the
20· ·smaller pieces that we ship to our customers in an
21· ·indoor facility.· Thank you, Madam Chair, I hope that
22· ·helps to elaborate and clarify.· Thank you.
23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·That concludes the terrestrial
24· ·environment presentation portion of the agenda.· We're
25· ·going to break for lunch, and after lunch we'll move on
26· ·to the presentation on the marine environment.· We'll
·1· ·break 'til 1:15.· 1:15.
·2· ·_______________________________________________________
·3· ·PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED UNTIL 1:15 PM
·4· ·_______________________________________________________
·5· ·(PROCEEDINGS COMMENCED AT 1:20 PM)
·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Welcome back, everyone.
·7· · · · Before we go into the marine presentation, one of
·8· ·the Board members has a question.
·9· · · · Madeleine.
10· ·MS. QUMUATUQ:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
11· · · · Under the compensation for hunters in the event
12· ·they can no longer harvest wildlife or fish under that
13· ·section and the agreement with the Qikiqtani Inuit
14· ·Association, it implies that they would provide
15· ·compensation in the event -- to the hunters in the
16· ·event that the hunters cannot hunt, and the amount is
17· ·$750,000.
18· · · · This morning, as we heard, there used to be fish,
19· ·narwhal and such, and they're no longer available in
20· ·abundance.· Maybe can you -- would you be able to raise
21· ·the amount of the compensation in the event that there
22· ·is actually no more wildlife to harvest.· Right now
23· ·that is my question.· So if Baffinland can answer, that
24· ·would be great.· Thank you, Madam Chair.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
26· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·1· · · · There are actually a number of different
·2· ·compensation programs available or those that can help
·3· ·support hunting and harvesting activities.· The
·4· ·wildlife compensation fund that was referred to is an
·5· ·existing program under the Inuit Impact Benefit
·6· ·Agreement administered by the Qikiqtani Inuit
·7· ·Association.
·8· · · · That fund is a top-up fund, so Baffinland has
·9· ·placed $750,000 in the fund, and as it's used, it's
10· ·topped back up.· In addition, currently in place is a
11· ·harvesters enabling program in Pond Inlet that provides
12· ·$400,000 or the equivalent for fuel for any Inuk over
13· ·the age of 12 years old.
14· · · · In addition, to account for changes in hunting
15· ·experiences that may have occurred as a result of the
16· ·project, the hunters and trappers organization have
17· ·received a $300,000 payment provided by Baffinland
18· ·through the Qikiqtani Inuit Association and will
19· ·receive another $1 million payment.
20· · · · Baffinland has also formed an agreement with the
21· ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet and the Hunters and Trappers
22· ·Organization to pay $10,000 for every vessel -- for
23· ·each vessel that's needed to move more than 4.2 million
24· ·tonnes in any given year, and this program would
25· ·continue into Phase 2, and it goes to what is known as
26· ·the Tasiutit working group, which was formed through
·1· ·this agreement.
·2· · · · Finally, more recently, we have committed to a
·3· ·regional harvesters enabling program in the amount of
·4· ·$750,000 as well, which would be available to all
·5· ·hunters and trappers organizations of the five
·6· ·communities administered by the Qikiqtani Inuit
·7· ·Association, and the culture, resources, and land-use
·8· ·assessment that will be completed later this year will
·9· ·help to inform if adjustments to those funds or
10· ·programs are required.
11· · · · Our first path of approach will always be to avoid
12· ·impacts, but we do want to provide that certainty that
13· ·compensation would be available if it's required, and
14· ·that's why we've agreed to set up these funds or
15· ·provide these payments.· I hope that helps clarify.
16· ·Thank you.
17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Now to Item 7.5 on the agenda,
18· ·Baffinland's presentation on the marine environment. I
19· ·will now ask our legal counsel to swear and affirm
20· ·Baffinland's presenters and mark the next exhibits.
21· · · · NIRB legal counsel.
22· ·MS. MEADOWS:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
23· ·Teresa Meadows, legal counsel for the Nunavut Impact
24· ·Review Board.
25· · · · So, Madam Chair, I have a list of the witnesses
26· ·who need to be affirmed to be able to offer evidence
·1· ·and respond to questions during this section.· I will
·2· ·state their names, and then I will administer the oath,
·3· ·and if I can have the people whose names have been
·4· ·stated confirm for me that they affirm, state their
·5· ·name and say "I affirm", then we will turn to the
·6· ·marking of exhibits.
·7· · · · The first name is Emma Malcolm, Phil Rouget,
·8· ·Dr. Patrick Abgrall, Marina Winterbottom.· Ben Wheeler,
·9· ·and John McClintock.· Dr. Melanie Austin who is also on
10· ·that list, Madam Chair, did affirm earlier in these
11· ·proceedings.
12· ·EMMA MALCOLM, PHIL ROUGET, PATRICK ABGRALL, MARINA
13· ·WINTERBOTTOM, JOHN MCCLINTOCK, Affirmed
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·NIRB legal counsel.
15· ·MS. MEADOWS:· · · · · · ·Madam Chair, I also have Ben
16· ·Wheeler on my list.
17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Ben Wheeler.
18· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Madam Chair, Megan Lord-Hoyle
19· ·again.
20· · · · I was just informed of a schedule change, and it
21· ·doesn't appear that Ben Wheeler is able to be on the
22· ·call at the moment.· Apologies for that confusion.
23· ·Thank you.
24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·NIRB legal counsel.
25· ·MS. MEADOWS:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
26· ·Teresa Meadows, legal counsel for the Nunavut Impact
·1· ·Review Board.
·2· · · · So, Madam Chair, there are several additional
·3· ·exhibits in addition to the PowerPoint presentation
·4· ·that will be presented today, and perhaps for the
·5· ·convenience of the Panel and to ensure that we have a
·6· ·clear understanding of the additional materials, I
·7· ·should turn it over to legal counsel for Baffinland to
·8· ·walk us through their proposed filing of exhibits.
·9· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland legal counsel.
11· ·MS. KOWBEL:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
12· · · · We have five additional exhibits to file at this
13· ·time.· The first is Baffinland's response to the Pond
14· ·Inlet proposal filed at the end of December.· We filed
15· ·a document that includes a translation of Baffinland's
16· ·response to that proposal together with a cover letter
17· ·to the NIRB.· The cover letter to the NIRB has not yet
18· ·been translated.· We'll provide translations of that
19· ·cover letter when available.
20· · · · The second exhibits are two additional PowerPoint
21· ·slides relating to marine noise.· This slide is a
22· ·visual representation of information that has already
23· ·been shared in many different ways, including previous
24· ·monitoring reports on the NIRB registry.· The -- the
25· ·topic is spoken to directly during the marine
26· ·presentation, and the noise figures just serve as a
·1· ·visual aid for the discussion on several slides in the
·2· ·marine presentation, Slides 44 and 47 specifically.
·3· · · · The next slide is an additional figure and table
·4· ·relating to narwhal harvest numbers reported to the
·5· ·Department of Fisheries and Oceans.· This is, again,
·6· ·just updating information that is found in the food
·7· ·security assessment.
·8· · · · The next document is a document that was
·9· ·previously filed on the NIRB registry on December 18th
10· ·with translations included.· This document is the key
11· ·topics reference guide, and it's just a summary
12· ·response to issues that have come up during the
13· ·assessment to serve as a convenient aid to people that
14· ·are interested in the current status of Baffinland's
15· ·commitments on key topics in this assessment.
16· · · · And the last document would be the summary of
17· ·significance, again, previously filed with NIRB on
18· ·December 18th with translations included, and that's a
19· ·document that was requested by NIRB in its prehearing
20· ·conference report, and we may be referring to that
21· ·document in answer to questions, and we thought it
22· ·was -- it would be good for people to know that that
23· ·was on the registry, and so we're proposing to mark it
24· ·as an exhibit in this proceedings.
25· · · · For all these documents, there are some copies at
26· ·the back of the room here in Iqaluit.· Should we need
·1· ·additional -- should we need additional copies, please
·2· ·let Baffinland know, and we will get additional copies
·3· ·printed for people who are interested.· I understand
·4· ·that there also being -- copies being printed in Pond
·5· ·Inlet, and, again, if you need copies, please ask
·6· ·Baffinland, and they will arrange for additional copies
·7· ·for you.
·8· · · · And, Madam Chair, I think I forgot to say my name
·9· ·at the beginning, but I'm Christine Kowbel.· Legal
10· ·counsel for Baffinland.· Thank you.
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·NIRB legal counsel.
12· ·MS. MEADOWS:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
13· · · · So with respect to the second and third item that
14· ·was discussed by Ms. Kowbel being the additional
15· ·PowerPoint slides on marine noise and at the additional
16· ·figure and table on narwhal harvest, those materials
17· ·have also been circulated by the Board on the public
18· ·registry about 35 minutes ago, and we have invited
19· ·participants to make their objections known to those
20· ·materials before we will actually enter them as
21· ·exhibits on the public hearing record because they
22· ·are -- have not been previously presented to the Board
23· ·or previously filed on the registry.· They are based on
24· ·information that is on the registry, but they are --
25· ·they are new in their current form.
26· · · · And so parties are invited to let me know by
·1· ·5:00 Eastern, so by the close of this afternoon
·2· ·session, whether or not they object to those materials
·3· ·being referenced and being accepted onto the public
·4· ·hearing record.
·5· · · · In addition, Madam Chair, I will be filing as well
·6· ·as an exhibit the presentation materials entitled the
·7· ·"Marine Presentation" in English and Inuktitut in a
·8· ·single version.· Thank you, Madam Chair.· Those are my
·9· ·matters.
10· · · · EXHIBIT 9 - PowerPoint Presentation, Marine
11· · · · Environment, Public Hearing Iqaluit and Pond
12· · · · Inlet January 25 - February 6, 2021
13· · · · (English/Inuktitut)
14· · · · EXHIBIT 10 - Baffinland Correspondence and
15· · · · attachments:· Response to Pond Inlet Proposal
16· · · · EXHIBIT 11 - PowerPoint Slides on Marine
17· · · · Noise.· (Visual aids for reference in
18· · · · relation to Slides 44 and 47 of Exhibit 9)
19· · · · EXHIBIT 12 - PowerPoint slides on narwhal
20· · · · harvest data
21· · · · EXHIBIT 13 - Key Topics Reference Guide,
22· · · · previously filed with NIRB on December 18
23· · · · EXHIBIT 14 - Summary on Significance,
24· · · · previously filed with NIRB on December 18
25· · · · EXHIBIT 15 - Baffinland Response to Hamlet of
26· · · · Pond Inlet (Mittimatalik) Announcement with
·1· · · · regard to Support for Baffinland Iron Mines
·2· · · · Corporation Phase 2 Expansion of the Mary
·3· · · · River Project
·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·5· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·6· · · · We will be asking Phil Rouget, who is the lead
·7· ·marine biologist for Baffinland and lead author on the
·8· ·marine assessment, to be providing the presentation on
·9· ·our behalf.· And, again, for the technicians, he will
10· ·be under the name "Melanie Austin".
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Phil Rouget.
12· ·Presentation by Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation
13· ·(Marine Environment)
14· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Thank you.
15· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Good afternoon, Madam Chair,
16· ·Members of the Board.· My name's Phil Rouget, Golder
17· ·Associates.· I serve as the technical lead on the
18· ·marine mammal component of the Phase 2 proposal.
19· · · · On behalf of Baffinland, I will be presenting
20· ·today's presentation on the marine environment.· Next
21· ·slide, please.
22· · · · The presentation will include an overview of the
23· ·assessment approach, a summary of key issues, and
24· ·mitigation measures for both the Milne Port and
25· ·shipping components of the project and will have an
26· ·overview of the assessment conclusions followed by a
·1· ·summary of the technical review process.· Next slide,
·2· ·please.· Next slide, please.
·3· · · · Of great benefit in the Phase 2 application is
·4· ·that Baffinland is an operating project and has been
·5· ·shipping iron ore since 2015.· The assessment builds on
·6· ·prior approvals accumulated, operational experience,
·7· ·and years of working with Inuit to better understand
·8· ·key environmental risks.· Next slide, please.
·9· · · · Baffinland has been able to improve shipping
10· ·operations and test the effectiveness of mitigation
11· ·measures based on results from our annual monitoring
12· ·programs and input received from communities and
13· ·intervenors.· Next slide, please.· Slide 6.
14· · · · Inuit knowledge was shared with Baffinland through
15· ·interviews and workshops, community meetings, input
16· ·from Inuit staff involved in our field programs,
17· ·reports developed by the QIA, and through engagement
18· ·with the MHTO.· This Inuit knowledge was used to inform
19· ·the baseline assessment to identify valued ecosystem
20· ·components for the project, to identify potential
21· ·project effects that are marine related and in the
22· ·development and application of mitigation measures.
23· ·Next slide, please.
24· · · · Inuit participation in the monitoring programs and
25· ·in community engagement sessions has resulted in
26· ·meaningful changes to Baffinland's shipping operations.
·1· ·For example, Inuit concerns regarding vessel noise in
·2· ·key narwhal calving areas have directly led to
·3· ·mitigation measures in the form of no-go zones along
·4· ·the west coast of Milne Inlet as well as within
·5· ·Koluktoo Bay, which is shown here in this figure in the
·6· ·green hatched area.· Next slide, please.
·7· · · · This figure shows a more specific breakdown of
·8· ·where and how IQ has been incorporated into the
·9· ·assessment.· I'll be giving examples of this throughout
10· ·the presentation.· Next slide, please.
11· · · · The marine assessment undertaken is rigorous and
12· ·comprehensive, and it has advanced the scientific
13· ·understanding of marine processes in Eclipse Sound and
14· ·Milne Inlet.· The assessment itself used conservative
15· ·assumptions, including worst-case scenarios instead of
16· ·more likely realistic-case scenarios.· For example, the
17· ·underwater noise modelling assumed that all project and
18· ·non-project vessels in the regional study area would be
19· ·as loud as a cape-sized ore carrier which is the
20· ·loudest of all the vessel classes proposed for the
21· ·project.· Next slide, please.
22· · · · The assessment builds on the approved final
23· ·environmental impact statement which spans over ten
24· ·years and includes over 30 different studies.· To
25· ·provide greater certainty in the assessment, Baffinland
26· ·has also had a peer review carried out on the
·1· ·icebreaking effects assessment.· Baffinland has also
·2· ·implemented adaptive management measures under its
·3· ·current operations that have formed the basis for many
·4· ·of the mitigations considered in the present Phase 2
·5· ·assessment.· Next slide, please.
·6· · · · Separate study areas were selected for the
·7· ·assessment of the marine environment and marine
·8· ·mammals.· The marine environment study area shown on
·9· ·the left reflects the maximum spatial extent of
10· ·predicted project-related change as a result of port
11· ·construction and operation.· The marine study mammal
12· ·area is shown on the right, which encompasses the
13· ·northern shipping route and extends out to the boundary
14· ·of the Nunavut settlement area.· It also includes Navy
15· ·Board Inlet and Tremblay Sound.· Next slide, please.
16· · · · Six valued ecosystem components were evaluated in
17· ·the Phase 2 assessment for marine.· These were selected
18· ·based on a number of criteria, including, for example,
19· ·being identified as culturally, ecologically, and
20· ·economically important to Inuit.· Next slide, please.
21· · · · This slide shows the various pathways by which the
22· ·project might affect the marine environment.· These
23· ·pathways outline the basis for the scope of the
24· ·assessment.· Next slide, please.
25· · · · Baffinland has taken a holistic approach to its
26· ·mitigation planning and has prioritized development of
·1· ·mitigation measures that directly address key potential
·2· ·adverse effects identified in the assessment such as
·3· ·those from shipping noise, ballast water, and impacts
·4· ·of shipping on Inuit culture.· Next slide.
·5· · · · Baffinland's proposed mitigation measures have
·6· ·been shaped by input from Inuit as well as project
·7· ·intervenors and stem from a deep respect for the
·8· ·communities sharing the waters of Eclipse Sound and
·9· ·Milne Inlet.· For example, the development of shipping
10· ·no-go zones at Bruce Head was in direct response to
11· ·feedback from local Inuit who asked for avoidance of
12· ·hunting areas in this region.· Next slide, please.
13· · · · Mitigation committed to by Baffinland have been
14· ·demonstrated to be operationally feasible and
15· ·biologically meaningful, which provides increased
16· ·confidence in the significance determinations for
17· ·Phase 2, additionally, the commitment to meet or exceed
18· ·regulatory requirements and commitments for best
19· ·practice for Canadian ports.· Next slide, please.
20· · · · Baffinland and QIA --
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·If you can please slow down.
22· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Apologies, Madam Chair.· Slide
23· ·18 we're on.
24· · · · Baffinland and QIA's jointly approved adaptive
25· ·management approach will be incorporated into an
26· ·updated marine monitoring plan for Phase 2 if approved.
·1· ·Next slide, please.
·2· · · · We'll now talk about the Milne Port component of
·3· ·the project, including construction and operation.
·4· ·Construction of a second ore dock is proposed as part
·5· ·of Phase 2 shown in light green in the figure here.
·6· ·The second ore dock will be connected to the existing
·7· ·ore dock and the freight dock by two new causeways.
·8· ·Next slide, please.
·9· · · · Structural modifications and increased port
10· ·activity have the potential to result in adverse
11· ·effects on the marine environment.· This includes
12· ·impacts on fish and fish habitat in the immediate -- in
13· ·the immediate vicinity of the port.· Baffinland has
14· ·developed mitigation measures and habitat offset
15· ·planning to address these effects.· The conceptual
16· ·offsetting plan in Technical Support Document 23
17· ·outlines many of these mitigations and identifies
18· ·potential offsetting measures for the Phase 2 port
19· ·modification.· Next slide, please.
20· · · · Industry best practices for in-water works such as
21· ·use of silt curtains to control sedimentation will be
22· ·implemented during port construction.· Additional
23· ·mitigation measures will be developed with DFO through
24· ·the Fisheries Act authorization process, and these will
25· ·be reflected in a construction environment --
26· ·environmental monitoring and management plan which will
·1· ·be developed for the new ore dock construction.· Next
·2· ·slide, please.
·3· · · · Ballast water modelling was used to assess
·4· ·potential effects of ship ballast water discharges in
·5· ·the marine environment.· In 2017, a three-dimensional
·6· ·hydrodynamic model was developed by global experts
·7· ·using site-specific oceanographic data used to predict
·8· ·potential changes to the marine environment that could
·9· ·occur as a result of ship ballast water releases.
10· · · · This included running a three-month simulation to
11· ·evaluate mixing and dispersal of ballast water in Milne
12· ·Inlet.· That was for during and after the open-water
13· ·season comparing current date temperature and salinity
14· ·conditions to those predicted with the project.· Next
15· ·slide, please.
16· · · · In 2019, the model was updated using oceanographic
17· ·data collected in Milne Inlet and was shown to perform
18· ·well in comparison to in-field measurements.· Based on
19· ·recommendations from the Fisheries and Oceans Canada
20· ·and other intervenors, a sensitivity analysis was
21· ·undertaken in 2019 to evaluate the robustness of model
22· ·predictions using a broader range of temperature and
23· ·salinity values for the release ballast water than
24· ·would normally occur during normal operations.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Please slow down for the
26· ·interpreters.· If you can take -- slow down with your
·1· ·sentences, please.
·2· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Apologies, Madam Chair.· I'll
·3· ·slow her down.
·4· · · · Modelling results demonstrated that the effects of
·5· ·ballast water releases in the marine environment under
·6· ·a Phase 2 scenario would not be detectible above normal
·7· ·conditions and would not cause a measurable impact on
·8· ·the temperature and salinity of the waters in Milne
·9· ·Inlet.· Given that temperature and salinity are key
10· ·determinants of species distributions, these results
11· ·lend confidence to impact predictions in that ballast
12· ·water discharges will have negligible impacts on marine
13· ·fish and fish habitat.· Next slide, please.
14· · · · This graphic represents an analogy to explain why
15· ·ballast water released from ships would be undetectable
16· ·within a few metres of their discharge point.· This is
17· ·because the total amount of ship ballast water released
18· ·into Milne Port in a given year is equivalent,
19· ·relatively speaking, to a raindrop in a bathtub based
20· ·on existing shipping levels.· Under a Phase 2 scenario,
21· ·this would be equivalent to about three raindrops in a
22· ·bathtub.· This is not enough to influence salinity and
23· ·temperature levels in the receiving environment.
24· · · · For comparison, the total amount of local
25· ·freshwater from rivers and runoff would be equivalent
26· ·to a coffee cup in this analogy.· For these reasons,
·1· ·the effect of ballast water discharges on marine water
·2· ·quality were predicted to be not significant.· Next
·3· ·slide, please.· And next slide, please.· Slide 27.
·4· · · · Baffinland's proposed ballast water management
·5· ·practices for Phase 2 will exceed federal requirements
·6· ·under Transport Canada's ballast water control and
·7· ·management regulations and are thus considered
·8· ·precedent setting.· Next slide, please.
·9· · · · All vessels calling on Milne Port are required to
10· ·perform an open-ocean ballast water exchange in the
11· ·North Atlantic.· This effectively reduces the risk of
12· ·invasive species introductions by expelling organisms
13· ·far away from the coast.· In addition, vessels with
14· ·on-board treatment systems are required to both
15· ·exchange as well as treat their ballast water.
16· · · · Current regulations call for either exchange or
17· ·treatment but not both.· So this exceeds existing
18· ·federal requirements.· Baffinland currently conducts
19· ·ballast water monitoring in the form of salinity
20· ·measurements at Milne Port to verify that exchange has
21· ·occurred on the vessels and has further committed to
22· ·work with DFO on a risk-based biological sampling
23· ·program specific for ballast water.· These are
24· ·voluntary measures that, again, exceed federal and
25· ·international guidelines for ballast water management.
26· ·Next slide, please.
·1· · · · Baffinland will also support the development of a
·2· ·trigger list of high-risk marine species along with
·3· ·associated response plans for these species.
·4· ·Baffinland will refine this aquatic invasive species
·5· ·list with Fisheries and Oceans on an ongoing basis
·6· ·starting in 2021.· Next slide, please.
·7· · · · With the increased port activities under Phase 2,
·8· ·it is expected that more airborne ore dust will be
·9· ·present at Milne Port.· Air quality -- air quality
10· ·modelling shows that there may be some low-level
11· ·increases in total suspended sediments and metal
12· ·loading in localized areas around the ore dock.· These
13· ·increases are not predicted to be significant given the
14· ·natural occurrence of iron ore in the marine receiving
15· ·environment and the dispersion that will occur through
16· ·local coastal processes.· Next slide, please.
17· · · · To confirm and monitor effect predictions, ongoing
18· ·sediment sampling and fish tissue sampling will -- will
19· ·take place.· Since the start of operations, no
20· ·significant increase in marine sediment iron
21· ·concentrations have been recorded relative to
22· ·preoperation condition.· Similarly, metal
23· ·concentrations in fish tissue have been relatively
24· ·consistent between 2010 and 2019 and are aligned with
25· ·the normal natural variability expected.· Modelling
26· ·predictions and monitoring results to date indicate
·1· ·that no significant adverse effects (INDISCERNIBLE -
·2· ·AUDIO FEED LOST) marine sediment quality or to char --
·3· ·Arctic char health are predicted to occur.· Next slide,
·4· ·please.
·5· · · · In the next part of the presentation, we'll be
·6· ·talking about shipping impacts, Slide 33.· The shipping
·7· ·route for Phase 2 shown in this figure is the same as
·8· ·that currently being used by Baffinland and has been
·9· ·established in collaboration with the Pond Inlet
10· ·community.· The route prioritizes the middle of the
11· ·channel in deep water to avoid the shoreline where a
12· ·higher density of narwhal are often present.
13· · · · Baffinland has also committed not to have the
14· ·project use Navy Board Inlet, Lancaster Sound, or
15· ·interact with the North Water Polynya.· Known important
16· ·habitats such as Koluktoo Bay and the west shore of
17· ·Milne Inlet are also actively avoided.· Vessel speed
18· ·restrictions have been set to 9 knots, and project
19· ·vessel speed is monitored diligently through an
20· ·automated vessel tracking system.· Next slide, please.
21· · · · During the early shoulder season, Baffinland has
22· ·implemented a 40-kilometre setback area beyond the
23· ·Nunavut settlement boundary which prevents ships from
24· ·staging in this area prior to entering the regional
25· ·study area.· The objective here is to avoid impacts on
26· ·marine mammals at the floe edge.· A real-time alert
·1· ·system notifies Baffinland shipping department if
·2· ·vessels deviate off course, if vessels speed beyond
·3· ·9 knots, if any vessel enters a no-go zone, if any
·4· ·drifting occurs, or if vessels enter the setback zone
·5· ·without authorization to proceed.
·6· · · · In addition, Baffinland has hired Inuit shipping
·7· ·monitors in Pond Inlet that also track vessel activity
·8· ·using a real-time vessel tracking system.· Next slide,
·9· ·please.
10· · · · The proposed Phase 2 shipping season could extend
11· ·from July 1st to November 15 where it is safe to do so
12· ·based on ecological and environmental factors.· Based
13· ·on feedback from the communities, there will be no
14· ·shipping during the winter and spring seasons in order
15· ·to avoid conflict with on-ice travel and hunting
16· ·activities as well as critical life cycle periods for
17· ·ringed seal.· Baffinland has also committed to not
18· ·shipping any time land-fast ice is present and limiting
19· ·its shipping operations using a transit restriction
20· ·system when thicker sea ice is present.· Next slide,
21· ·please.
22· · · · Baffinland has established a communication
23· ·protocol with the MHTO for the start of the shipping
24· ·season.· No shipping will occur until the MHTO confirms
25· ·the floe edge is closed for hunting each year.· This
26· ·protocol helps to ensure that the project will not
·1· ·disrupt a critical harvesting period for local hunters
·2· ·ensuring their full use of the floe edge for hunting.
·3· ·Next slide, please.
·4· · · · Shipping during the shoulder seasons will be
·5· ·limited by transit restrictions any time ice conditions
·6· ·require this.· Only one transit per 24-hour period will
·7· ·be allowed when ice concentrations are greater than
·8· ·six-tenths, and only two transits per 24-hour period
·9· ·will be allowed when ice conditions are between
10· ·four-tenths and six-tenths.
11· · · · The objective of the transit restrictions is to
12· ·minimize the daily noise exposure on marine mammals
13· ·allowing sufficient quiet time for those marine mammals
14· ·occurring in the regional study area during icebreaking
15· ·operations.· Baffinland has also recently committed to
16· ·applying similar transit restrictions during the fall
17· ·shoulder season.· Next slide, please.
18· · · · Given the variability and ice presence and related
19· ·mitigation measures which limit the number of transits
20· ·based on ice concentration, it's not possible to
21· ·accurately predict vessel schedules and monthly port
22· ·calls.· However, the assessment was based on a maximum
23· ·of 176 ore carrier voyages per shipping season, as well
24· ·as 20 cargo or fuel vessels, 2 ice breakers, and
25· ·10 tugboats.· Next slide, please.
26· · · · While some cargo and fuel vessels will be
·1· ·required, most of the project vessel activity will be
·2· ·from ore carriers.· The relative sizes are shown here.
·3· ·In our assessment, we assumed a combination of these
·4· ·types of vessels with a conservative maximum of
·5· ·14 cape-sized vessels per year.· Next slide, please.
·6· · · · Project vessels will travel at a maximum speed of
·7· ·9 knots.· As shown in this table, a total of 99 percent
·8· ·of project ore carriers and icebreakers were compliant
·9· ·with the speed restriction in 2019.· In contrast,
10· ·non-project vessels such as cruise ships and coast
11· ·guard vessels were shown to travel in the regional
12· ·study area around 14 to 16 knots for the majority of
13· ·the time.· Next slide, please.
14· · · · Three anchorage locations have been identified at
15· ·Ragged Island and are a necessary part of ensuring
16· ·operational efficiency.· Baffinland considered five
17· ·different locations for anchoring proposed by the MHTO,
18· ·but it was determined that Ragged Island is still the
19· ·best location for anchoring because of its proximity to
20· ·port, depth of water, and safe refuge it provides for
21· ·vessels waiting to be called to port.· Next slide,
22· ·please.· Slide 42.
23· · · · I am now going to speak about the potential
24· ·underwater noise impacts on marine mammals from
25· ·shipping operation.· Noise has the potential to affect
26· ·marine mammals in various ways each with its own level
·1· ·of severity.· This includes acoustic injury in the form
·2· ·of hearing loss.· It also includes potential
·3· ·behavioural disturbance as well as acoustic masking
·4· ·effects.· The potential for these impacts to occur
·5· ·depend on the characteristics of the sound source
·6· ·itself, how loud is the sound and what frequency is it
·7· ·in.
·8· · · · It also depends on the relative hearing ability of
·9· ·the animal involved as well as how close the animal is
10· ·to the source of the noise when it is exposed to the
11· ·noise as we tried to capture in this figure.· Next
12· ·slide, please.
13· · · · Acoustic injury.· Over 80 scenarios were modelled
14· ·using different combinations of ships at different
15· ·locations along the shipping route.· None of these
16· ·produced noise levels that exceeded established injury
17· ·thresholds for a marine mammal.· Measurements of ship
18· ·noise collected by underwater recorders in 2018 and
19· ·2019 confirmed that modelled estimates are conservative
20· ·and overrepresent potential effects.
21· · · · Mitigation measures such as vessel speed
22· ·restrictions will reduce both the spatial and temporal
23· ·effects of vessel noise on marine mammals.
24· ·Additionally, Baffinland has committed to an acoustic
25· ·monitoring program that will be able to verify the
26· ·prediction that vessel noise will not cause injury,
·1· ·including from icebreaking operation.· Next slide,
·2· ·please.
·3· · · · Behavioural disturbance.· The marine mammal
·4· ·assessment uses an acoustic disturbance threshold of
·5· ·120 decibels which applies to all marine animals -- all
·6· ·marine mammals and is based on best available science.
·7· ·The 120-decibel threshold is based on results from
·8· ·behavioural response studies of baleen whales such as
·9· ·bowheads and gray whales.
10· · · · These types of whales have a sensitive hearing
11· ·range in the low frequency range such as shipping.
12· ·This threshold is not weighted to account for the
13· ·frequency range of mid-to-high-frequency cetaceans such
14· ·as narwhal.· Because narwhal fall into the
15· ·mid-frequency cetaceans category and ship noise occurs
16· ·primarily in the lower frequency range, there is little
17· ·overlap between ship noise and narwhal hearing.
18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·If you can please slow down
19· ·for the interpreter.· Repeat the last part.
20· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Because narwhal are
21· ·mid-frequency cetaceans and ship noise occurs in the
22· ·lower frequency range, there is little overlap between
23· ·ship noise and narwhal hearing.· Therefore, we expect
24· ·this disturbance threshold of 120 decibels to be
25· ·conservative for narwhal and likely overrepresentative
26· ·of actual disturbance effects.
·1· · · · Using this threshold, we modelled the total daily
·2· ·exposure period based on Phase 2 shipping operations.
·3· ·Results indicated that marine mammals in the regional
·4· ·study area would experience 21-and-a-half hours per day
·5· ·when there would be a low likelihood of acoustic
·6· ·disturbance during the open-water season and up to
·7· ·15 hours per day during the early shoulder season.· The
·8· ·reality is that the low frequency hearing of narwhal is
·9· ·poor, and they simply will not be able to hear much of
10· ·the ship noise, especially if the ship is at long
11· ·distances.
12· · · · We have prepared two figures to better illustrate
13· ·this that were submitted as exhibits to this
14· ·presentation, and we will have them on file when the
15· ·relevant questioning comes up following the
16· ·presentation.
17· · · · Multiple lines of evidence, including Inuit
18· ·knowledge, scientific literature, modelling, and our
19· ·field monitoring studies were used to inform the
20· ·assessment prediction that narwhal will be disturbed by
21· ·vessel-based sound but that the responses will be
22· ·short-term and localized.· To date, results from our
23· ·monitoring programs support this prediction, meaning
24· ·that when vessels are approaching narwhal, animals may
25· ·temporarily swim away, but once the vessel has passed,
26· ·the narwhal are shown to resume their activities.
·1· · · · The results demonstrate that narwhal respond to
·2· ·ship presence at distances that range from 1 to
·3· ·5 kilometres from the ship.· Tagging data confirms that
·4· ·the relative proportion of time that narwhal spend
·5· ·within this range is quite low, about 2 percent of the
·6· ·total time.
·7· · · · It's also important to note that a narwhal
·8· ·response to ship noise is very variable.· Not all
·9· ·animals respond.· Individuals respond differently.· In
10· ·fact, the same individual can respond differently to
11· ·the same type of ship exposure.
12· · · · To help visually illustrate what I'm talking
13· ·about, we have a short video animation that shows a
14· ·real life example of how narwhal respond to project
15· ·shipping in the regional study area.· I would ask for
16· ·the next slide to be pulled, and if you could play the
17· ·video.
18· ·Video Played
19· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · These data were collected in
20· ·August 2017 and showed the local surface movement of
21· ·three tagged narwhal shown in gray here.· They're
22· ·swimming just south of Bruce Head at the entrance of
23· ·Koluktoo Bay.· Note the animation is sped up for visual
24· ·purposes and that actual vessel speeds are slower than
25· ·they seem in the video.
26· · · · Push play again, please.· As you can see, the path
·1· ·of the narwhal is first crossed by an ore carrier shown
·2· ·in orange travelling northbound from the port and
·3· ·shortly thereafter by two separate project
·4· ·vessels approaching Bruce Head from opposite direction.
·5· · · · The first encounter does not seem to generate any
·6· ·obvious directional avoidance from the narwhal.
·7· ·However, the second dual exposure appears to elicit a
·8· ·localized temporary response in terms of the narwhal
·9· ·changing direction and adjusting their position away
10· ·from the shipping lane and then reoccupying the
11· ·shipping lane shortly after the vessels have passed.
12· ·This type of response is consistent with assessment
13· ·prediction.· This animation represents one of the more
14· ·obvious surface avoidance responses observed in narwhal
15· ·following a close shipping encounter.
16· · · · In many of the vessel narwhal interactions
17· ·analyzed, it is not uncommon to see narwhal show no
18· ·response or a low-level response to these events.· Even
19· ·at similar distances from ships, responses can vary
20· ·from nothing to obvious.· While this animation shows
21· ·narwhal and vessels can come in close contact, our
22· ·tagging data indicates that narwhal generally do not
23· ·approach closer than several hundred metres from a
24· ·vessel.· Next slide, please.· Slide forty -- we're on
25· ·Slide 46.
26· · · · Mitigation measures have been developed
·1· ·specifically to reduce the spatial and temporal aspects
·2· ·of noise exposure from shipping.· This includes vessel
·3· ·speed restrictions throughout the entire regional study
·4· ·area as well as transit restrictions during icebreaking
·5· ·operations and a 40-kilometre setback zone from the
·6· ·floe edge.· In light of these effective mitigation
·7· ·measures and given the low-level responses documented
·8· ·and the limited time narwhal spend in the disturbance
·9· ·zone, we do not anticipate that shipping noise will
10· ·decrease fitness at the individual or stock level.
11· ·Therefore, residual effects in the assessment were
12· ·characterized as not significant.
13· · · · To date, there has been no evidence in the
14· ·monitoring programs of large-scale displacement or
15· ·abandonment of the regional study area in response to
16· ·shipping.· We recognize this prediction is associated
17· ·with some level of uncertainty under a Phase 2
18· ·scenario.· To address this uncertainty, Baffinland has
19· ·committed to continuing and enhancing its marine mammal
20· ·programs during Phase 2 operation.· Next slide, please.
21· · · · Acoustic masking.· Masking occurs when the ability
22· ·to hear a sound of interest is affected by the presence
23· ·of another sound.· To give an example, acoustic masking
24· ·is like being at a party where the music is loud, and
25· ·you might have to raise your voice to talk to a friend
26· ·sitting next to you.· But when the music's turned down,
·1· ·you can hear each other much easier.
·2· · · · In the case of the project, we are referring to
·3· ·the potential for ship noise to interfere with marine
·4· ·mammal communication in the project area.· Some degree
·5· ·of masking is predicted to occur as a result of the
·6· ·project.· However, there currently are no established
·7· ·regulatory thresholds for masking that would indicate
·8· ·at what level of masking might occur in different
·9· ·marine mammal hearing groups or what level of masking
10· ·may result in a biological consequence.
11· · · · In general, the science on the effects of masking
12· ·is relatively young.· Given this limitation and in
13· ·order to better understand potential masking effects,
14· ·JASCO used acoustic monitoring data from 2018 and 2019
15· ·to estimate the level of reduced listening range that
16· ·would occur for narwhal due to ship noise and
17· ·relevant -- relative to ambient conditions.
18· · · · Results from this work demonstrated that sound
19· ·levels capable of masking would be intermittent and
20· ·temporary in nature and that narwhal are already
21· ·exposed to similar levels of masking from natural
22· ·sounds such as wind and waves.· This suggests that
23· ·narwhal likely have some form of strategy for dealing
24· ·with a noisy environment.· In fact, marine mammals have
25· ·been shown to modify their vocal behaviour to overcome
26· ·competing sound sources in their environment.
·1· · · · For example, beluga, similar to narwhal, are known
·2· ·to be able to modify their communication to avoid
·3· ·masking effects.· They do this in the presence of
·4· ·shipping by shifting up their calls to frequencies that
·5· ·do not overlap with the shipping noise.
·6· · · · Narwhal produce five types of calls.· Four of
·7· ·these have little frequency overlap with ship noise,
·8· ·including echolocation vocalizations that are used for
·9· ·finding food.· The fifth call type, whistles, which are
10· ·thought to be used for social purposes, can occur at
11· ·frequencies below 1 kilohertz which does overlap with
12· ·ship noise, but, generally, whistles occur at
13· ·frequencies of several kilohertz where there is little
14· ·overlap with vessel noise.
15· · · · In consideration of this information and in
16· ·concert with planned implementation of the mitigation,
17· ·masking effects are predicted to occur but are
18· ·anticipated to be temporary and, therefore, have been
19· ·evaluated as nonsignificant at the population level.
20· · · · It is fully acknowledged that acoustic masking is
21· ·complex, and its biological consequences remain poorly
22· ·understood.· Moving forward to address this level of
23· ·uncertainty, data collected as part of our acoustic
24· ·monitoring programs will provide more insight on
25· ·potential masking effects.· Additionally, to advance
26· ·the science on this topic, Baffinland has partnered
·1· ·with the University of New Brunswick to undertake
·2· ·collaborative research on potential masking effects on
·3· ·narwhal using data collected from the project area.
·4· ·Next slide, please.
·5· · · · Entrapment.· Ice entrapment is a natural event
·6· ·that has been documented in the Arctic for hundreds of
·7· ·years.· Inuit knowledge confirms that entrapment is a
·8· ·source of natural mortality for narwhal.· Two
·9· ·entrapment events have been recorded in the regional
10· ·study area in the last 15 years.· No shipping was
11· ·occurring at the time of either entrapment event.
12· ·However, there is concern that artificially opened
13· ·water channels, such as those created by icebreaking,
14· ·may be problematic for marine mammals who may confuse
15· ·them for leads or polynyas.
16· · · · This was taken into account in our assessment.· We
17· ·predicted there would be a low risk of entrapment of
18· ·narwhal for the following reasons:· To date, there's
19· ·been no evidence demonstrating a direct link between
20· ·shipping activities and ice entrapment.· We know
21· ·narwhal are an ice-adapted species and occupy ten tenth
22· ·pack ice throughout the winter.· No narwhal entrapment
23· ·events occurred as a result of icebreaking during
24· ·previous Nanisivik mine operations, which included
25· ·icebreaking earlier in the season to May and ending in
26· ·November.· Multiple lines of evidence, including Inuit
·1· ·knowledge and tagging data, have shown us that most
·2· ·narwhal have left or are in the process of leaving the
·3· ·regional study area at the time of initial ice
·4· ·freeze-up.
·5· · · · Lastly, despite the lack of an established link
·6· ·between shipping and entrapment, Baffinland has
·7· ·committed to conducting an aerial clearance survey at
·8· ·the end of the fall shipping season to visually detect
·9· ·possible entrapments.· This will allow resource
10· ·managers to decide on a course of action in accordance
11· ·with the community's preference.· Next slide, please.
12· ·Slide 49.
13· · · · Vessel strikes have the potential to cause injury
14· ·or mortality to marine mammals, but with appropriate
15· ·mitigation, there is a low risk of a strike.
16· ·Baffinland has implemented the highest level of
17· ·precaution to prevent ship strikes by voluntary --
18· ·voluntarily committing to a 9-knot speed restriction in
19· ·the project area.· This is the single most effective
20· ·measure known to minimize the risk of lethal ship
21· ·strikes on marine mammals.
22· · · · As a comparison, the Government of Canada has
23· ·implemented a 10-knot restriction in the Gulf of
24· ·St. Lawrence to protect the endangered North Atlantic
25· ·right whale, a whale species that is known to be
26· ·vulnerable to ship strikes.· Vessel speed compliance
·1· ·will be diligently monitored, and no vessel strikes
·2· ·have been reported in the project area since shipping
·3· ·began.· With continued implementation of these speed
·4· ·restrictions, no ship strikes on marine mammals are
·5· ·anticipated under a Phase 2 scenario.· Next slide,
·6· ·please.· Slide 50.
·7· · · · As described earlier in the presentation,
·8· ·Baffinland has been undertaking extensive monitoring in
·9· ·the Eclipse Sound region for many years, and we've been
10· ·able to detect changes in narwhal behaviour.· The
11· ·marine-based monitoring programs listed here will
12· ·continue under Phase 2 with ongoing input on study
13· ·design and indicators from Inuit and regulators. I
14· ·have presented on some of our results already, and in
15· ·the next few slides, I'll include some additional
16· ·highlights from our other monitoring programs.· Next
17· ·slide, please.· Next slide is 62, please.
18· · · · Inuit participation in the monitoring programs is
19· ·critical.· Through past years, we've had the pleasure
20· ·of training, employing, and learning from a great
21· ·number of Inuit from several different North Baffin
22· ·communities who have worked with us on the delivery of
23· ·our marine monitoring programs.· In 2019, more than
24· ·50 percent of participants in Baffinland 's marine
25· ·monitoring programs were Inuit resulting in over
26· ·700 hours of training and nearly 6,000 hours of
·1· ·employment on these monitoring programs.· Next slide,
·2· ·please.
·3· · · · Inuit monitors help integrate Inuit knowledge in
·4· ·program implementation and in data collection as well
·5· ·as an interpretation of the results.· Inuit are
·6· ·involved in all aspects of the monitoring programs and
·7· ·have been trained and hired to undertake data analysis
·8· ·and work with Baffinland's technical consultants
·9· ·following the completion of the field program.
10· · · · Baffinland's commitments under the Inuit Certainty
11· ·Agreement will also see expanded Inuit-led, independent
12· ·monitoring principles.· This is separate and over and
13· ·above the Inuit monitoring included in the existing
14· ·monitoring program.· The Inuit Certainty Agreement
15· ·commitments will also help set adaptive management
16· ·thresholds and indicators, which will be based on an
17· ·updated culture, resource, and land-use study as well
18· ·as scientific indicators.
19· · · · Baffinland will continue to hire full-time
20· ·shipping monitors in Pond Inlet to conduct live
21· ·monitoring of vessels and to act as the main point of
22· ·communication between Baffinland's shipping department,
23· ·the community, and the MHTO.· Next slide, please.
24· · · · To monitor potential changes in the number of
25· ·narwhal in the Eclipse Sound stock, regular surveys of
26· ·the stock have been undertaken using aerial transit
·1· ·surveys.· As shown in this table, the Eclipse Sound
·2· ·stock has been surveyed four separate times since 2004.
·3· ·All four surveys are considered reliable and were
·4· ·conducted using comparable methods.· Note that the
·5· ·Eclipse Sound stock appeared to decrease between 2004
·6· ·and 2013 prior to shipping, although this change was
·7· ·not shown to be statistically significant.
·8· · · · In 2019, the population size of the Eclipse Sound
·9· ·summer stock was measured and was shown to be
10· ·consistent and within range of previous population
11· ·estimates, including prior to shipping.· This finding
12· ·aligns with impact predictions that the project is
13· ·unlikely to compromise the integrity of the population
14· ·either through mortality or via large scale
15· ·displacement or abandonment effects.· Next slide,
16· ·please.
17· · · · This slide presents the total number of narwhal
18· ·harvested in Eclipse Sound each year since 1994.· This
19· ·slide presents the total number of narwhal harvested in
20· ·Eclipse Sound each year since 1994 as reported by the
21· ·MHTO to DFO.· This includes landed catches throughout
22· ·the life of the project.
23· · · · The gray bars represent the total number of
24· ·reported landed narwhal in that given year.· The red
25· ·bars indicate the total number of narwhals taken
26· ·humanely during the two narwhal natural entrapment
·1· ·events.· The white boxes above the red solid line
·2· ·represent the narwhal allocated catch for that given
·3· ·year.· We know from Inuit knowledge and community
·4· ·feedback that harvest numbers were low in 2018 as shown
·5· ·in the gray bars.· However, the total number of narwhal
·6· ·reported as hunted in 2019 is higher by 50 animals than
·7· ·in 2014 before project shipping started.· That is
·8· ·actually higher than every other year prior to the
·9· ·start of shipping.
10· · · · This graph also shows that narwhal harvesting has
11· ·fluctuated over the years and has been steadily
12· ·increasing over time with most harvesting occurring in
13· ·the last several years.· This presents a second line of
14· ·evidence to what is seen in the aerial survey results
15· ·in that narwhal continue to use the regional study area
16· ·despite an incremental increase in shipping and hunting
17· ·levels over the last six years.· As a note, the red
18· ·line here is labelled as "total allowable harvest", but
19· ·the correct term is "tag allocation".· Next slide,
20· ·please.
21· · · · Consistent with Term and Condition 110 and 112 for
22· ·the project, Baffinland is responsible for selecting an
23· ·early warning indicator for early detection of project
24· ·effects on narwhal.· Narwhal calf ratio was selected as
25· ·the early warning indicator which is expressed as the
26· ·proportion of immature narwhal, calves and yearlings,
·1· ·relative to the adult population.· This is considered
·2· ·an effective early indicator because it is thought that
·3· ·if the population was being harmed, changes in
·4· ·reproductive output can be monitored to indicate an
·5· ·overall change to the population.
·6· · · · This early warning indicator was also selected
·7· ·because of what we've heard from Inuit in that Bruce
·8· ·Head and Koluktoo Bay are very important areas for
·9· ·narwhal calving.· Data for this early warning indicator
10· ·has been collected at Bruce Head prior to the start of
11· ·shipping and throughout shipping operations since 2015.
12· · · · The data available to date demonstrates that the
13· ·proportion of immature animals at Bruce Head has not
14· ·changed since project shipping started.· It should be
15· ·noted here that Mary River is unique amongst all other
16· ·shipping projects in Canada as it is the only one to
17· ·develop and adopt an early warning indicator to monitor
18· ·for potential project effects on marine mammals from
19· ·shipping.· Next slide, please.
20· · · · The Bruce Head shore-based monitoring program has
21· ·also evolved over the years and now incorporates new
22· ·tools to better monitor this early warning indicator.
23· ·Such is the use of drone imagery.· Not only does this
24· ·provide a more reliable means to document age class of
25· ·narwhal, it is a very effective tool to evaluate
26· ·potential changes in group composition and behaviour as
·1· ·a result of shipping.
·2· · · · To illustrate this, I am now going to play a short
·3· ·video of drone footage we took this last summer on
·4· ·August 30th during a focal follow study conducted as
·5· ·part of the 2020 Bruce Head monitoring program.· I'll
·6· ·ask for the next slide and video to be queued, please.
·7· ·Video Played
·8· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · The drone here followed a
·9· ·mother and calf pair that were resting near Bruce Head
10· ·for an extended period.· This behaviour took place
11· ·during an active ore carrier transit in the study area
12· ·shown in the previous figure.· You can see -- as you
13· ·can see in the figure, the location of the vessel
14· ·relative to the mother and calf pair seen here is
15· ·approximately 3.9 kilometres.· Throughout the survey,
16· ·the pair is observed in close association with one
17· ·another resting and occasionally engaged in slow travel
18· ·as the calf continuously nurses from its mother.
19· · · · As we can see in this video, even at distances of
20· ·less than 5 kilometres from a vessel, it is not
21· ·uncommon for narwhal to maintain normal behaviours in
22· ·the presence of ships even for animals which we could
23· ·categorize as being likely more sensitive or cautious
24· ·such as mother-calf pairs.· Behavioural responses
25· ·observed as part of the Bruce Head shore-based program
26· ·are consistent with responses observed in the 2017 and
·1· ·2018 narwhal tagging program as noted earlier.· This
·2· ·further provides us confidence in the Phase 2
·3· ·assessment predictions regarding disturbance effect.
·4· ·Next slide, please.
·5· · · · In summary, our assessment is founded on best
·6· ·available science, conservative assumptions, multiple
·7· ·mitigation measures with demonstrated effectiveness,
·8· ·many of which were undertaken based on Inuit input, as
·9· ·well as strong commitments to follow-up monitoring and
10· ·an adaptive management.· Therefore, we are confident in
11· ·our prediction that narwhal will continue to use the
12· ·regional study area despite an incremental increase in
13· ·shipping.· Next slide, please.
14· · · · Our assessment has been transparent in that
15· ·narwhal and other marine mammals will be disturbed by
16· ·shipping noise, but these effects are anticipated to be
17· ·short-term, localized, and reversible in nature, as has
18· ·been demonstrated through present monitoring program.
19· ·Therefore, it was concluded that an increase in
20· ·shipping would unlikely lead to either long-term
21· ·effects on the population or stock level or cause
22· ·permanent displacement or abandonment from the regional
23· ·study area.· Next slide, please.
24· · · · Baffinland has committed to implementing
25· ·mitigation measures designed to directly address
26· ·adverse effects identified in the Phase 2 assessment
·1· ·and based on concerns raised by intervenors and Inuit
·2· ·throughout the review process.· The proposed mitigation
·3· ·and management measures exceed any industry or
·4· ·regulatory standards in Canada.· Next slide, please.
·5· · · · Predictions of effects are made best -- on best
·6· ·available information, in consideration of the proposed
·7· ·mitigation measures, and through adoption of a
·8· ·precautionary approach.· However, uncertainty in these
·9· ·predictions always exist to some extent.· To address
10· ·uncertainty, extensive follow-up monitoring involving
11· ·Inuit will effectively verify assessment predictions,
12· ·and regulators will be involved in monitoring findings
13· ·and adaptive measures as required.· Next slide, please.
14· · · · For this last part of the presentation, I will
15· ·provide an overview of the technical review process as
16· ·it relates to the marine environment.· Next slide,
17· ·please.
18· · · · There are a total of 71 final written submission
19· ·technical comments received.· 57 of these are now
20· ·resolved; 2 of these are partially resolved.· Since the
21· ·filing of this presentation, there are only 7 remaining
22· ·outstanding comments, all of which are related to the
23· ·MHTO 's technical comment submission, and 6 remain
24· ·under review, which are being actively resolved through
25· ·the development of commitment language with Fisheries
26· ·and Oceans Canada and Parks Canada.· Next slide,
·1· ·please.· Slide 65.
·2· · · · Of the 13 comments that remain outstanding or
·3· ·under review, these are focused on components of the
·4· ·project related to discharges to the marine
·5· ·environment, marine monitoring, and shipping
·6· ·activities.· Baffinland continues to work with Parks
·7· ·Canada and Fisheries and Oceans to resolve the
·8· ·remainder of these outstanding concerns.· Next slide,
·9· ·please.
10· · · · Through the technical review process, Baffinland
11· ·has been able to resolve 59 of 71 technical comments by
12· ·making key commitments related to marine mitigation
13· ·and/or monitoring.· Some of these include expansion or
14· ·maintenance of commitments associated with the current
15· ·operations, including implementation of transit
16· ·restrictions, no-go zones along the shipping route,
17· ·enforcement of vessel speed restrictions, and
18· ·undertaking end-of-season narwhal entrapment aerial
19· ·surveys.· Baffinland has also made new commitments such
20· ·as applying dust suppressants to the stockpiles at
21· ·Milne Port to reduce dust dispersion.· Next slide,
22· ·please.
23· · · · Additional commitments include ongoing monitoring
24· ·for early warning indicators for the marine environment
25· ·and marine mammals as well as the establishment of
26· ·indicator threshold and responses through the joint
·1· ·management of the adaptive management plans with the
·2· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· Baffinland is also
·3· ·committed to continuing to work with key regulators
·4· ·such as DFO on the implementation of the highest
·5· ·standards for ballast water monitoring and the MHTO,
·6· ·DFO, and QIA on the implementation of programs such as
·7· ·ringed seal monitoring.· Baffinland has also committed
·8· ·to further enhancing Inuit input into project shipping
·9· ·and marine management activities through the
10· ·development of the Inuit Stewardship Plan.· Please
11· ·switch to Slide 72.
12· · · · This concludes our marine presentation for today.
13· ·Thank you for listening, and we look forward to
14· ·discussing the marine component of the assessment in
15· ·the following session.· Thank you.
16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Right now it's 3:10.· Before
17· ·we go into questions for the marine environment, let's
18· ·take a 15-minute break.
19· ·(ADJOURNMENT)
20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Welcome back, everyone.· Going
21· ·to questioning the proponent on the marine environment
22· ·presentation.· Pond Inlet Elder, Charlie Inuarak.
23· ·Charlie Inuarak (Elder) Questions Baffinland Iron Mines
24· ·Corporation
25· ·MR. INUARAK:· · · · · · ·I'm an Elder now.· Thank you.
26· ·Welcome to Pond Inlet.· Have good meals.· Be welcome.
·1· · · · Although we have the pandemic issues, we are
·2· ·welcoming people generally, so I want to welcome
·3· ·people.· Just some questions in regards to the first
·4· ·part of the presentation.· I'm not mad.
·5· · · · So he mentioned quite some time ago -- I've been
·6· ·living here quite some time in this area.· I was --
·7· ·used to be able to go hunting to the Koluktoo area and
·8· ·also Qaurnak, also to Tremblay Sound any time, whether
·9· ·it be spring.· So with the seals and the narwhals, I
10· ·got to know their environment because there used to be
11· ·a lot of young seals up there because the seals can --
12· ·was getting good prices, and we would be away from the
13· ·springtime until the ice starts to break, and once the
14· ·ice has broken, then we will be narwhal hunting.· This
15· ·was our way of life.
16· · · · He mentioned or they mentioned in the first
17· ·instance in regards to the salt water, and my
18· ·ancestors, they have indicated -- they always said that
19· ·ocean water -- I don't know it myself, perhaps I'm too
20· ·young about it -- sometimes there would be instances,
21· ·especially when the ice has just taken -- just gone
22· ·down.· There is less acoustic sound when the ice has
23· ·just broken.
24· · · · When they say there is a larger area where the
25· ·sound is travelling, everything -- especially when it's
26· ·cold, the noise travels far even though there's ice,
·1· ·and seals are able to detect easily when the noise
·2· ·travels fast, and there's a more echoing ground --
·3· ·echoing noise.
·4· · · · So when you're travelling on a kayak, the seal or
·5· ·narwhal at the end of the -- when the ice is just
·6· ·broken up, you're able to get to the animals easily and
·7· ·more because with the kayaks, you could be able to go
·8· ·narwhal hunting or seal hunting where there is less
·9· ·noise detected.
10· · · · So when Inuit are talking about -- so in the
11· ·summertime -- so just when the ice has gone and then
12· ·into the summertime, in the summertime then the echo
13· ·starts to go further, so the acoustics are much
14· ·clearer, and so narwhals are easy to detect people on
15· ·the boat or on the ships.
16· · · · So has Baffinland, when they are doing their
17· ·mitigation planning or monitoring, if that particular
18· ·knowledge has been taken into consideration because it
19· ·makes sense that in the high acoustic period that
20· ·animals would be able to hear from far away.
21· · · · So in the -- using the kayaks, so it would be
22· ·easier for them to catch the animals when there are
23· ·waves, so they would be able to catch the sleeping
24· ·animals and be closer to them when there are waves.
25· · · · Perhaps it should not be part of it, but I think
26· ·it needs to be part of it, about acoustic sound and
·1· ·noise travelling far and whether that has been
·2· ·discussed is a question.
·3· · · · If you would let me, Madam Chair, to continue.
·4· · · · In the inlets south of us, there used to be a lot
·5· ·of wildlife, narwhals, lots of birds and seals making a
·6· ·lot of noise.· And animal noises could be heard
·7· ·especially in the Koluktoo area.· When you're in the
·8· ·cliffs there, you can hear the sounds of the narwhals
·9· ·eating, so that was what it was like.· Those things we
10· ·don't see now today.· We don't know where they went.
11· · · · For the food, what the narwhal eat, is eating
12· ·shrimps and cod and other things -- sorry, not shrimps,
13· ·cod and other things, little starfish and other things
14· ·that they have, but the most that are usually in their
15· ·stomach is cod.
16· · · · And the small fish, we also -- when we were young
17· ·we also tried to get them -- we also look into the cod
18· ·stomach as well, and they're eating krill.· What's in
19· ·their stomach is krill, tiny ones, and I'm just
20· ·thinking if there is a -- a safety issue regarding the
21· ·krill that the narwhals, what they eat and what the
22· ·seals eat, they are eating what's in their environment.
23· ·If they -- if they don't have anything to eat, then
24· ·they would not be there.· If there was no food source,
25· ·they would not be there.
26· · · · We understand this as hunters.· When the fish have
·1· ·come down from the river to the lake, the narwhals get
·2· ·there, they are fishing there.· So we don't see much of
·3· ·them getting char.· Once the char has run on to the
·4· ·ocean, then the narwhals are present.· So once the
·5· ·runoff has done, then they leave the area, and they
·6· ·will go into Eclipse Sound and to other areas.
·7· · · · So in terms of Tremblay Sound and the rivers that
·8· ·are there and the immediate inlets, that's where the
·9· ·narwhals usually go, especially if they don't -- if
10· ·they go to Koluk -- sometimes they don't go to
11· ·Koluktoo.· We call -- a place called Koyukatsuuq
12· ·[phonetic], and you see a lot of narwhal there eating
13· ·and playing.· So sometimes they will go into Cape Hat
14· ·and to other places.· So in this place is what they
15· ·have eaten -- scientific knowledge, have you considered
16· ·what they are eating?· What's in their stomach?· If
17· ·their food source is not present, the narwhal goes.
18· · · · And, finally, this summer, I was in Arctic Bay to
19· ·go narwhal hunting with my children.· So we were able
20· ·to be given the tags there to go narwhal hunting there
21· ·and even we had a double tusk.· There was lots of
22· ·narwhals.· Lots and lots of narwhals there.· All the
23· ·way from that area to this area, lots of narwhals.· So
24· ·Arctic Bay had lots of narwhals, and they were very
25· ·happy, but there might be a safety issue there.· If
26· ·they have too many narwhals over there, their food
·1· ·source may become scarce, and so -- animals are born
·2· ·and they multiply, but this is part of the
·3· ·consideration.· So these are tiny questions and --
·4· ·because they're just part of my lifestyle here.
·5· · · · So are we going to be part of -- or perhaps in the
·6· ·future these are -- these sorts of considerations may
·7· ·be actually included in the planning and monitoring.
·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·9· · · · Before you respond, just to advise the parties, we
10· ·will be having an evening session.
11· · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
12· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
13· ·Qujannamiik, Chair, and Qujannamiik, Charlie, for the
14· ·questions.
15· · · · I'm going to ask Melanie Austin, who conducted our
16· ·noise assessment, to respond to questions around how
17· ·different seasons and sounds were taken into
18· ·consideration, and then I'll ask Phil Rouget to speak
19· ·to some of the behavioural changes and impacts on the
20· ·food chain.· Thank you.
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Melanie Austin.· Melanie
22· ·Austin, if you can please proceed.
23· ·MS. AUSTIN:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
24· ·Melanie Austin with JASCO for Baffinland.
25· · · · Thank you for sharing that observation about the
26· ·sound -- how far the sound travels, particularly right
·1· ·after the ice melts, and I agree with that observation
·2· ·that the sound can travel far when the surface of the
·3· ·water is very cold right after the ice melts.· The
·4· ·things that influence how far the sound travels in the
·5· ·water include the temperature of the water and the
·6· ·salinity of the water, so those are important factors.
·7· · · · And the model that we use to estimate how far the
·8· ·vessel noise will travel does take the water
·9· ·temperature as an input, and we selected temperature
10· ·conditions that would cause sound to travel the
11· ·greatest distances when we were estimating how far the
12· ·sounds from the vessels would travel.· Thank you.
13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Phil Rouget.
14· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Phil Rouget, Golder Associates
15· ·for Baffinland.
16· · · · I'd like to acknowledge those comments from
17· ·Charlie Inuarak, very useful information.· We do have a
18· ·fish collection program that we implement at Milne Port
19· ·that takes place annually.
20· · · · As part of this program, we look at both fish
21· ·quantity as well as fish quality, and we do stomach
22· ·content analysis to look at fish predator-prey
23· ·relationships.· The majority of that work is focused in
24· ·the Milne Port area.· It, however, does not extend
25· ·throughout Eclipse Sound.
26· · · · We know that climate change impacts on sea ice are
·1· ·having implications on the Arctic food web, including
·2· ·impacts on Greenland halibut and Arctic cod, which as
·3· ·you've flagged are important components of narwhal
·4· ·diet, and we know they're also thought to be in
·5· ·declining numbers due to the increased length of the
·6· ·open-water season associated with climate change.
·7· · · · How narwhal may be adjusting their foraging
·8· ·behaviour to meet their energetic requirements is
·9· ·presently uncertain.· It's unknown by -- by us or by
10· ·anyone.
11· · · · We see this as a useful regional initiative that
12· ·would be led by the responsible resource manager for
13· ·looking at effects on prey availability due to climate
14· ·change.· Baffinland would be interested in
15· ·collaborating on such an initiative and working with
16· ·others to determine what's going on relevant to this
17· ·subject.
18· · · · In the interim, we continue to monitor marine
19· ·mammal health as part of our marine environmental
20· ·effects monitoring program that looks specifically at
21· ·pathways related to project effects not only on marine
22· ·mammals, but on marine mammal prey, and further down
23· ·the trophic chain.
24· · · · Demographic variables for narwhal including calf
25· ·ratio and stock abundance are monitored with the
26· ·assumption that depressed narwhal health would be
·1· ·reflected or would manifest through decreased
·2· ·reproductive output and ultimately a decline in the
·3· ·population.
·4· · · · Monitoring, to date, yields no evidence of changes
·5· ·in calf ratio or population decline, despite an
·6· ·increase in shipping we've seen with the project.
·7· · · · We also monitor multiple receptors in the marine
·8· ·ecosystem over time that collectively represent habitat
·9· ·and food quality for marine mammal populations, such as
10· ·narwhal, using indicators such as metal concentrations
11· ·in marine sediment and fish tissue.
12· · · · Monitoring to date hasn't revealed any evidence of
13· ·contamination, but should that change, this would
14· ·represent a pathway to marine mammals through the food
15· ·chain that would be explored further and, if necessary,
16· ·adaptive management measures would be implemented.
17· · · · More information on this is available in a
18· ·technical memo that we submitted to the Board on the
19· ·23rd of January 2020, Public Registry ID Number 332710.
20· ·Thank you.
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Onto the list of registered
22· ·intervenors.· Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
23· ·Jared Ottenhof.
24· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association Questions Baffinland Iron
25· ·Mines Corporation
26· ·MR. OTTENHOF:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
·1· · · · Jared Ottenhof for the Qikiqtani Inuit
·2· ·Association.· I'll lead off with a few questions
·3· ·followed by Richard Paton, Bruce Stewart, and Jeff
·4· ·Higdon.
·5· · · · The Qikiqtani Inuit Association would like to
·6· ·begin with clarification questions about the number of
·7· ·ship transits being considered.
·8· · · · In Technical Support Document 2, Appendix C in the
·9· ·key facts table, Baffinland lists a number of key facts
10· ·on number of ships.· The Qikiqtani Inuit Association
11· ·assumes that this table represents the key assumptions
12· ·used to design the rest of the Phase 2 proposal.· The
13· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association also assumes that a great
14· ·deal of attention went into this table about shipping.
15· · · · In light of questions being asked about shipping,
16· ·the Qikiqtani Inuit Association looked at this table
17· ·again to make sure we understand what Baffinland is
18· ·proposing.
19· · · · In Technical Support Document 2, Appendix C, the
20· ·key facts table, on PDF page 138 of the document, the
21· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association notes that as the project
22· ·transitions from 6 million tonnes per annum to
23· ·12 million tonnes per annum, the number of ships is
24· ·proposed to increase from 83 vessels per year to 134
25· ·ore carriers per year.
26· · · · We note that on Table 1.1 of Technical Support
·1· ·Document 2, which is on PDF page 14 and is the
·2· ·comparison of the approved project to the Phase 2
·3· ·proposal, Baffinland states that the number of sailings
·4· ·required to ship 12 million tonnes per annum is 134 to
·5· ·164.
·6· · · · On page 5.5 of technical supporting Document 2, or
·7· ·PDF page 73, Baffinland states the total number of
·8· ·ships that are required each year is expected to range
·9· ·between 134 and 176.
10· · · · During sessions this week, we have heard
11· ·Baffinland state they require 176 ore carriers per
12· ·year.
13· · · · We also note that the Baffinland Iron Mines LP
14· ·Mary River Expansion Stage 3 Definitive Study Report
15· ·from 2017, on page 17 estimated that using the market
16· ·available ships, the project could ship 12 million
17· ·tonnes of ore annually using 120 vessel trips.
18· · · · My two-part question is this:· Can Baffinland
19· ·please confirm why the key facts table would state 134
20· ·vessels are needed while in subsequent sessions,
21· ·Baffinland says it requires 176 ore carriers, and the
22· ·Hatch report says 120 vessel trips could be used, and
23· ·can Baffinland clearly -- clarify the uncertainty and
24· ·inconsistency in the materials which show such a wide
25· ·variation in the number of ships needed.· Thank you,
26· ·Madam Chair.
·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·2· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·3· · · · Madam Chair, we do acknowledge the inaccuracies.
·4· ·This was brought to light at some of the first
·5· ·technical meetings that were held, and we have since
·6· ·clarified that issue through a memo that was submitted
·7· ·in December of 2019, and then reconfirmed in the
·8· ·updated project description submitted January 2020.
·9· · · · I'll pass it to Lou Kamermans to give a very brief
10· ·summary of why these inaccuracies occurred.· Thank you.
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
12· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
13· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
14· · · · Just to speak to the 120 vessel number provided in
15· ·the Hatch report just quoted, the number of vessels
16· ·needed to move 12 million tonnes is ultimately
17· ·dependent on the size of vessels that we're able to
18· ·charter, and the ultimate mix that we have.· So while
19· ·120 may hypothetically be possible, further
20· ·investigation of the market for ice class vessels to
21· ·come to Milne Port showed that was not possible.
22· · · · There is only one ice class cape-sized ore carrier
23· ·that would be able to come to the project outside of a
24· ·very short season when non-ice class vessels are able
25· ·to come to the project.· It is not even certain that
26· ·that vessel would be decommissioned before we begin
·1· ·shipping for Phase 2.
·2· · · · So this meant we had to adjust our expectations
·3· ·and assume that we could have the same sized vessels
·4· ·for moving most of the ore from Milne Port.
·5· · · · While the second ore dock gives us the capability
·6· ·to load up to a cape-sized vessel, we will always be
·7· ·limited by the availability of those size of vessels to
·8· ·come to Milne Port.
·9· · · · So as Megan said, this is why we put forward the
10· ·summary of vessels by vessel size in the marine
11· ·overview in December 2019 to make this clarification.
12· ·Thank you.
13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
14· ·Jared Ottenhof.
15· ·MR. OTTENHOF:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jared
16· ·Ottenhof for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
17· · · · When we reviewed the materials provided by
18· ·Baffinland to date, the only information which have
19· ·been provided regarding ship transits is the total
20· ·number of vessels without full documentation justifying
21· ·exactly how many vessels are needed.· What
22· ·documentation has Baffinland presented that details the
23· ·manner in which Baffinland has assessed the number of
24· ·vessels required to ship 12 million tonnes per annum.
25· ·Thank you.
26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·1· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·2· · · · The assessment in reality evaluated a greater
·3· ·number of daily transits than is expected based on the
·4· ·number of voyages or vessels in the project
·5· ·description.· The number can also vary based on the
·6· ·different assessments that were conducted.· For
·7· ·example, when assessing noise impacts or acoustic
·8· ·impacts, the behavioural disturbance on marine mammals,
·9· ·it was assumed that most, 116 of the 176 of the ore
10· ·carriers calling to port were the larger cape-sized
11· ·vessels, which have the loudest noise footprint or the
12· ·loudest noise sound of all the vessels considered in
13· ·the assessment excluding the icebreaker.· Thank you.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
15· ·Jared Ottenhof.
16· ·MR. OTTENHOF:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jared
17· ·Ottenhof, Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
18· · · · As a follow-up to the previous question:· In
19· ·Baffinland's "Overview of Marine Operations" document,
20· ·which was provided in response to information requests,
21· ·Baffinland provided three examples of shipping
22· ·schedules.· All three schedules use the same mix of
23· ·vessel types ranging from supermax to cape-size, and
24· ·the same numbers of vessels per type with a total of
25· ·176 ore carriers for each example schedule.· Based on
26· ·this, my question is:· Can Baffinland indicate where in
·1· ·the record it provides information about any
·2· ·sensitivity analysis it conducted to assess the impact
·3· ·trade-offs between using fewer large vessels and more
·4· ·smaller vessels in terms of noise disturbance, and how
·5· ·this impact might change with an increase in shipment
·6· ·of ore tonnages over the range from 6 to 4.2 -- or,
·7· ·sorry, 14.4 million tonnes per annum.· Thank you.
·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·9· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, thanks for
10· ·the question.
11· · · · Madam Chair, there's no sensitivity analysis
12· ·per se in the way it was just described, and that's
13· ·because we used overly conservative modelling.· So we
14· ·used the highest predicted noise levels on the basis
15· ·that if you're to reduce vessels, those noise impacts
16· ·will also be reduced.· So essentially we overmodelled
17· ·so that any reductions would just be less than what it
18· ·is that we predicted.
19· · · · I believe the last part of the question was around
20· ·the 14.4 million tonnes as operational flexibility, and
21· ·that analysis was included in the operational
22· ·flexibility memo submitted in October 2020, but it's
23· ·important to note that under that scenario, there's no
24· ·increase in vessels.· We've still captured the
25· ·predicted noise levels within that operational
26· ·flexibility.· Thank you.
·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
·2· ·Jared Ottenhof.
·3· ·MR. OTTENHOF:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jared
·4· ·Ottenhof for Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
·5· · · · Can you confirm if there was an assessment of the
·6· ·minimum number of vessels required -- or market vessels
·7· ·required that could ship up to 14.4 million tonnes per
·8· ·annum.· Thank you.
·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
10· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
11· · · · May I ask for a clarification.· When you say
12· ·"assessment", what are you referring to there?· What
13· ·are you looking for?· Thanks.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association
15· ·Jared Ottenhof.
16· ·MR. OTTENHOF:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jared
17· ·Ottenhof for Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
18· · · · We're looking for the smallest number of vessels
19· ·that Baffinland could use to ship up to 14.4 million
20· ·tonnes per year, and what analysis may have been done
21· ·to arrive at that number.· Thank you.
22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
23· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
24· · · · I think -- I think this is a bit of a confusing
25· ·question, Madam Chair, because, again, it's based on
26· ·the mix of vessels that we could get or use.· So in
·1· ·terms of assessment, we've already included 176 ore
·2· ·carriers within our assessment and explained that if we
·3· ·were to try to move 14.4 million tonnes, it would be
·4· ·within that 176-vessel mix.
·5· · · · So if the question is trying to get at the
·6· ·environmental assessment of the minimum number, again,
·7· ·it's been covered by the conservative assessment that's
·8· ·been done.· Thank you.
·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association
10· ·Jared Ottenhof.
11· ·MR. OTTENHOF:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jared
12· ·Ottenhof, Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· We'll leave
13· ·this line of questioning.· I'll turn it over to Richard
14· ·Paton now for another question.· Thank you.
15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Richard Paton.
16· ·MR. PATON:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
17· ·Richard Paton on behalf of Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
18· · · · I have one question.· On Slide 8, Baffinland
19· ·presented a key slide for Inuit on the incorporation of
20· ·Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, and similar to past
21· ·presentation material, an incorporation of Inuit
22· ·Qaujimajatuqangit in project reporting.· Baffinland
23· ·skimmed over it without giving importance to
24· ·identifying how Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit was
25· ·incorporated in greater detail, other than to state it
26· ·will be discussed throughout the presentation.
·1· · · · The Qikiqtani Inuit Association has thoroughly
·2· ·assessed the Phase 2 proposal and highlighted the lack
·3· ·of integration of Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit and Inuit
·4· ·perspectives from the impacted communities into project
·5· ·monitoring and management systems to date.
·6· · · · Baffinland did not demonstrate incorporation of
·7· ·Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit in later slides.· There were
·8· ·two quick references with no explanation on how it was
·9· ·incorporated.· One in discussing Inuit monitors on
10· ·Slide 52, and one on Slide 48, with a quick reference
11· ·to Inuit knowledge related to ice entrapment.
12· · · · So my question is:· Can Baffinland explain Slide 8
13· ·in greater detail on their incorporation of Inuit
14· ·Qaujimajatuqangit and further explain how Baffinland
15· ·will further incorporate Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit into
16· ·project management decision-making related to the
17· ·marine environment for Phase 2?· Thank you, Madam
18· ·Chair.
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
20· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
21· · · · I'm going to ask Lou Kamermans to provide a
22· ·response first, and then Phil Rouget to speak to his
23· ·assessment and the work he's conducted.· Thank you.
24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
25· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
26· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·1· · · · So just building on what is in Slide 8 and
·2· ·Slide 9, IQ has been critical to this assessment since
·3· ·the EIS or the environmental impact statement was first
·4· ·developed for the original project, so it would have
·5· ·set the environmental impact statement guidelines and
·6· ·issue scoping.· That was an undertaking by the Nunavut
·7· ·Impact Review Board through a workshop.· So from the
·8· ·outset, Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit was considered in the
·9· ·instructions we had to build our environmental impact
10· ·statement.
11· · · · Through IQ studies carried out between 2006 and
12· ·2010, we built the original environmental impact
13· ·statement with an extensive record of IQ included in
14· ·Volume II and Volume III.· For Phase 2, we carried out
15· ·a series of workshops in Pond Inlet and Arctic Bay
16· ·between 2015 and 2016.· The first workshop concentrated
17· ·on contemporary Inuit land use in the Eclipse Sound and
18· ·Navy Board area; the second workshop focusing on
19· ·shipping through ice; the third workshop focusing on
20· ·open water shipping; and the fifth workshop
21· ·concentrating on Phase 2 in Arctic Bay.
22· · · · So this information collected through these
23· ·workshops was shared with our consultants, and our
24· ·consultants were able to use that information as well
25· ·as other sources of literature where this knowledge had
26· ·been collected and shared to carry out their
·1· ·assessments.
·2· · · · So to give some more practical insight into how
·3· ·the specific marine assessments were built, I'll pass
·4· ·it to Phil Rouget.· Thank you.
·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Phil Rouget.
·6· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Phil
·7· ·Rouget, Golder Associates for Baffinland.
·8· · · · IQ is integrated in the marine assessment from the
·9· ·early stages of the project including development of
10· ·the original final environmental impact statement in
11· ·2012 as well as in the two addendums that have since
12· ·incurred [sic].
13· · · · We used information from interviews with community
14· ·members, including Elders dating back to 2006 to inform
15· ·the marine baseline assessment as well as to help us
16· ·focus the baseline data collection program.
17· · · · This information was also used to identify key
18· ·valued ecosystem components for the marine environment.
19· ·This also included key information on marine mammal
20· ·distribution in the regional study area, timing of
21· ·movement, migratory patterns, important life stages for
22· ·different receptors in the project area, and sensitive
23· ·ecological areas for both marine mammals and fish.
24· · · · These interviews were also very beneficial in
25· ·identifying Inuit perspectives on key issues in the
26· ·marine environment as a result of the Phase 2 proposal.
·1· · · · The workshops stated by Mr. Kamermans earlier also
·2· ·were vital in providing key information on key effect
·3· ·pathways.· For example, understanding that narwhal are
·4· ·very sensitive to underwater noise, and that the
·5· ·project had potential to impact narwhal on their
·6· ·summering grounds, which are calving grounds.
·7· · · · A second example is the importance of avoiding
·8· ·adverse impacts of the ringed seal pupping season and
·9· ·mating season taking place on the ice during the spring
10· ·period.
11· · · · More recently in 2019, a number of community risk
12· ·workshops were run.· Those were specific to inform
13· ·environmental protection measures for the Phase 2
14· ·proposal.· They focused on shipping impacts on narwhal
15· ·as well as aquatic invasive species and ballast water
16· ·issues amongst other potential effects pathways.· The
17· ·mitigation and management measures that have been
18· ·developed to date have been very much shaped through
19· ·dialogue with Inuit.· For example, in direct response
20· ·from Inuit knowledge identifying Koluktoo Bay as a key
21· ·calving area for narwhal and concerns raised by the
22· ·community regarding potential shipping impacts in this
23· ·area both for impacts on narwhal as well as hunting in
24· ·the local area, this area was designated as a no-go
25· ·zone for shipping as were other areas along the west
26· ·coast of Milne Inlet.
·1· · · · In 2018, we learned from the communities that
·2· ·harvest numbers were low and narwhal were not abundant
·3· ·in the regional study area in that given year. A
·4· ·number of potential drivers of that observation were
·5· ·outlined, which included potential icebreaking effects.
·6· · · · Based on that input, Baffinland introduced
·7· ·additional mitigation measures for implementation the
·8· ·following year, which included the limited icebreaker
·9· ·transits during the shoulder season as well as the
10· ·setback area at the floe edge to avoid any noise
11· ·interference with respect to animal migration along the
12· ·floe edge.
13· · · · Those measures were implemented in 2019.· Narwhal
14· ·numbers in 2019 were measured and shown to be
15· ·consistent with previous years' pre-shipping.· This, to
16· ·us, suggests that this example of adaptive management,
17· ·based on Inuit input alone, was successfully applied.
18· · · · Finally, there has been direct involvement of
19· ·Inuit in all marine monitoring programs, including
20· ·input in design of the programs, field data collection,
21· ·data processing, data analysis and interpretation, and
22· ·reporting.
23· · · · As an example, one of our Inuit researchers that
24· ·has participated in our programs for the last four
25· ·years was invited for six weeks down south where he
26· ·engaged in months of distance analysis training, which
·1· ·is the process of learning how to process aerial survey
·2· ·results for the purpose of determining animal numbers
·3· ·for a population assessment.· Thank you, Madam Chair.
·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association
·5· ·Richard Paton.
·6· ·MR. PATON:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·7· ·Richard Paton on behalf of the Qikiqtani Inuit
·8· ·Association.
·9· · · · In follow-up, if Inuit parties have agreed with
10· ·the accuracy of the Phase 2 impact assessment on marine
11· ·mammals, can Baffinland identify all specific
12· ·additional commitments it has made to Inuit monitoring
13· ·and Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit integration into project
14· ·management decision-making related to the marine
15· ·environment for Phase 2.· Thank you, Madam Chair.
16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
17· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
18· · · · Just for clarification, are you looking for what
19· ·commitments we've included in the commitment list
20· ·specific to marine monitoring?· Thank you.
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
22· ·Richard Paton.
23· ·MR. PATON:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair,
24· ·Richard Paton on behalf of the Qikiqtani Inuit
25· ·Association.
26· · · · Specifically I'm asking Baffinland if the Inuit
·1· ·parties have agreed with Baffinland's marine findings
·2· ·of impact.· Thank you, Madam Chair.
·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·4· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·5· ·I think it depends on which Inuit parties are being
·6· ·referred to here.· I also think that that's part of
·7· ·this review process is all intervenors will have the
·8· ·opportunity to provide their views to the Board on
·9· ·their acceptance of our -- or agreement with our
10· ·findings.· Thank you.
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
12· ·Richard Paton.
13· ·MR. PATON:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
14· ·Richard Paton on behalf of the Qikiqtani Inuit
15· ·Association.
16· · · · I guess I'll leave that answer as is.· I have no
17· ·follow-up questions and would ask that Bruce Stewart
18· ·continue the line of questioning for the Qikiqtani
19· ·Inuit Association.· Thank you, Madam Chair.
20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Bruce Stewart.· Qikiqtani
21· ·Inuit Association, Bruce Stewart.
22· ·MR. STEWART:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair, Bruce
23· ·Stewart from Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
24· · · · Over the past year and as recently as last week,
25· ·Baffinland made important commitments on marine
26· ·environmental monitoring.· Many of these commitments
·1· ·relate to Fisheries and Oceans Technical Comments 3.6.1
·2· ·and 3.6.10, and some of these commitments have
·3· ·responded to recommendations from the Qikiqtani Inuit
·4· ·Association to fill gaps in risk assessment or
·5· ·monitoring.
·6· · · · Baffinland also made a number of commitments
·7· ·directly to Qikiqtani Inuit Association on these
·8· ·technical comments.· These commitments resolved
·9· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association Technical Comments 43,
10· ·related to monitoring of marine sediment dispersion,
11· ·and 44, related to ballast water dispersion and its
12· ·potential physical and chemical impacts.
13· · · · Baffinland has also made important commitments
14· ·recently that partially resolve Qikiqtani Inuit
15· ·Association Technical Comment 45, related to invasive
16· ·species.
17· · · · Baffinland's detailed commitment to Fisheries and
18· ·Oceans' Technical Comment 3.6.6 on a risk-based
19· ·assessment of hull fouling is important and partially
20· ·resolves Qikiqtani Inuit Association Technical
21· ·Comment 45 on invasive species.
22· · · · However, contrary to Slide 65 of Baffinland's
23· ·presentation, Technical Comment 45 has not yet
24· ·resolved.· Baffinland's commitment to DFO 3.6.5 -- I'm
25· ·sorry, Fisheries and Oceans' Technical Comment 3.6.5 is
26· ·an important step forward but short on details.· Under
·1· ·this commitment, Fisheries and Oceans Canada will take
·2· ·the lead on designing and implementing a risk-based
·3· ·approach to biological assessment of ballast water.
·4· ·The finding of this study will then be implemented as a
·5· ·monitoring program by Baffinland.
·6· · · · At the last technical meeting, Qikiqtani Inuit
·7· ·Association requested that further information on the
·8· ·study design be provided prior to the final hearings to
·9· ·inform its decision on resolution of Technical
10· ·Comment 45.
11· · · · In particular, whether --
12· ·(AUDIO FEED LOST)
13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Bruce Stewart, your feed froze
14· ·when you were at the word "whether".
15· ·MR. STEWART:· · · · · · ·... testing will be met.· My
16· ·question, therefore -- oh, I was at the word "whether".
17· ·Okay.· I'll repeat the last bit there.
18· · · · At the last technical meeting, QIA requested that
19· ·further information on the study design be provided
20· ·prior to the final hearings to inform its decision on
21· ·resolution of Technical Comment 45.· In particular --
22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Bruce Stewart.
23· ·MR. STEWART:· · · · · · ·-- whether the concerns
24· ·regarding the adequacy --
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·If you can stop, please.
26· ·MR. STEWART:· · · · · · ·Yes, Madam Chair.
·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·The interpretation is off.
·2· ·You'll have to repeat your question.· If you can go a
·3· ·few sentences back, please.
·4· ·MR. STEWART:· · · · · · ·Okay.
·5· · · · Technical Comment 45 is not yet resolved.
·6· ·Baffinland's commitment to Fisheries and Oceans' 3.6.5
·7· ·comment is an important step forward but short of
·8· ·details.· Under this commitment, Fisheries and Oceans
·9· ·Canada will take the lead on designing and implementing
10· ·a risk-based approach to biological assessment of
11· ·ballast water.· The finding in this study will then be
12· ·implemented as a monitoring program by Baffinland.
13· · · · At the last technical meeting, Qikiqtani Inuit
14· ·Association requested that further information on the
15· ·study design be provided prior to the final hearings to
16· ·inform its decision on resolution of Technical
17· ·Comment 45, in particular, whether concerns regarding
18· ·the adequacy of biological testing will be met.
19· · · · My question, therefore, is this:· Will Baffinland
20· ·and/or the Department of Fisheries and Oceans provide a
21· ·summary of the study design, for example, basic
22· ·approach, level of sampling effort duration, during
23· ·this hearing to enable Qikiqtani Inuit Association and
24· ·other hearing parties to better assess whether and to
25· ·what extent their concerns regarding lack of biological
26· ·testing of ballast water will be met.· Thank you, Madam
·1· ·Chair.
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Before we go to a response
·3· ·from Baffinland, on the matter regarding motions, NIRB
·4· ·legal counsel.
·5· ·Directional Update by Nunavut Impact Review Board Legal
·6· ·Counsel (Summaries on Motions)
·7· ·MS. MEADOWS:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·8· ·Teresa Meadows, legal counsel for the Nunavut Impact
·9· ·Review Board.
10· · · · Madam Chair, I recognize that I am standing
11· ·between a hungry crowd and dinner, so I will try and
12· ·keep my summaries very short.
13· · · · Madam Chair, as directed by the Panel on the first
14· ·day of this hearing, by Tuesday afternoon, four parties
15· ·had filed written notices of motion and supporting
16· ·documents for the Board's consideration.
17· · · · By Thursday at 3 PM Eastern, 17 parties had filed
18· ·written responses to one or more of the motions.· The
19· ·Board circulated the responses last night, and the
20· ·Panel met to decide last night with respect to the
21· ·motions, and while I recognize that many people would
22· ·be very interested in a long dissertation of the
23· ·Panel's reasons for decision, many people would also
24· ·not be so interested in that material, and so the Board
25· ·will be saving the written reasons for decision for
26· ·release in the Board's public hearing report and
·1· ·recommendations.· The Panel has nonetheless asked me to
·2· ·communicate the follow decisions and direction:· In
·3· ·respect of a motion by the Qikiqtani Inuit Association
·4· ·to keep the public hearing record open after the close
·5· ·of this hearing to allow all parties to file final
·6· ·written submissions on February 12th, with Baffinland
·7· ·having an opportunity to file their final response
·8· ·submissions on February 17th, 2021.
·9· · · · The Board notes that all parties who provided
10· ·comments on the motion supported this motion, although
11· ·there were some parties that requested the timeline be
12· ·extended.
13· · · · The Board has decided to grant this motion
14· ·recognizing that we may have to abridge the time
15· ·available for closing statements at the end of this
16· ·public hearing, and the Board has extended the timeline
17· ·slightly so that all parties will have until Monday,
18· ·February 15th, 2021, at 3 PM Kitikmeot time or Mountain
19· ·Time to file any final closing statements summarizing
20· ·their position, the facts on which they rely, and any
21· ·closing arguments.· Parties are reminded that the
22· ·Board's Rules 33 and 47 provide guidance regarding the
23· ·scope of acceptable submissions.
24· · · · Madam Chair, Baffinland will have until Monday,
25· ·February 22nd, 2021, at 3 PM Kitikmeot time or Mountain
26· ·Time to file their final closing statement and final
·1· ·response to the statements filed by intervenors.
·2· · · · Madam Chair, with respect to the second motion
·3· ·considered by the Panel, this was a motion by the
·4· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization
·5· ·requesting the Board to remove the parts of the Inuit
·6· ·Certainty Agreement currently filed on the Board's
·7· ·public registry or, alternatively, asking the Board to
·8· ·file the Inuit Certainty Agreement in its entirety.
·9· · · · The Board notes that parties commenting on the
10· ·motion generally opposed removing the aspects of the
11· ·Inuit Certainty Agreement from the registry and
12· ·supported the alternative of allowing the filing of the
13· ·Inuit Certainty Agreement in its entirety on the
14· ·Board's registry.
15· · · · The Board has determined that as the Inuit
16· ·Certainty Agreement is not confidential and parties may
17· ·wish to see the context surrounding the relevant
18· ·provisions already filed, the Board will be following
19· ·up with the Qikiqtani Inuit Association to file the
20· ·whole Inuit Certainty Agreement on the Board's public
21· ·registry.
22· · · · The Panel notes, however, that although the Board
23· ·has agreed to file the Inuit Certainty Agreement on the
24· ·Board's public registry as outlined in Rule 33 of the
25· ·Board's Rules of Procedure, when the Board admits a
26· ·document for filing on the registry, it is not making a
·1· ·decision regarding the relevance of that document to
·2· ·the Board's proceedings.· As Madam Chair indicated on
·3· ·Monday, the focus of the Board's consideration of the
·4· ·Inuit Certainty Agreement is on those provisions that
·5· ·may affect the management, monitoring, and mitigation
·6· ·of the potential environmental or socio-economic
·7· ·effects of the Phase 2 development project.
·8· · · · Issues such as the negotiation and consultation
·9· ·associated with the development of the Inuit Certainty
10· ·Agreement or general economic benefits are outside the
11· ·scope of the NIRB's assessment.
12· · · · With respect to the third motion considered by the
13· ·Board, this was a motion by Oceans North requesting the
14· ·Board to subpoena testimony from a witness, Ms. Valerie
15· ·Moulton, on the basis that Oceans North anticipates the
16· ·oral evidence she can provide will confirm the
17· ·existence of a revised version of the draft LGL report
18· ·as well as evidence of the context in which that
19· ·revised version was created and how it was ultimately
20· ·received by the proponent.
21· · · · The draft LGL report referenced in the motion was
22· ·provided to the Nunavut Impact Review Board in
23· ·March 2016.· The draft report and comments about the
24· ·report by other professionals has also been filed with
25· ·the Board.
26· · · · Madam Chair, as you know, to issue a subpoena, the
·1· ·Panel must determine that the evidence of a witness is
·2· ·relevant, material, and necessary for the purposes of
·3· ·the Board's assessment.· Reviewing the motion and the
·4· ·supporting materials provided, the Board has denied the
·5· ·request of Oceans North on the basis that the evidence
·6· ·of Ms. Moulton is not necessary in these proceedings.
·7· ·The content of the draft LGL report she co-authored is
·8· ·available on the Board's website.· There are extensive
·9· ·comments on the report, which have also been filed on
10· ·the Board's registry, and the Panel is not convinced
11· ·that seeking to subpoena the testimony of a witness as
12· ·to the internal circumstances surrounding the revision
13· ·and finalization of a technical report authored by
14· ·professionals and commissioned by Baffinland is
15· ·unnecessary.
16· · · · And finally, Madam Chair, the fourth motion is the
17· ·motion of Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation objecting
18· ·to the filing of two documents:· The OpenOil report
19· ·entitled "Financial Analysis, Mary River Iron Ore Mine,
20· ·The Viability of Current Base Operations Versus
21· ·Possible Expansion Stages" as well as a spreadsheet
22· ·that was filed along with the report with the Board on
23· ·January 18th, 2021, by Oceans North.
24· · · · Subsequently, on Tuesday, January 26, 2021, so
25· ·three days ago, Oceans North also filed a video
26· ·presentation providing an overview of the OpenOil
·1· ·report by one of its authors, and as the admissibility
·2· ·of this presentation is directly linked to the OpenOil
·3· ·report, this was also added to the scope of
·4· ·Baffinland's objection.
·5· · · · Madam Chair, the responses received in respect of
·6· ·Baffinland's motion, Oceans North opposed the motion,
·7· ·World Wildlife Fund also opposed the motion, the Hamlet
·8· ·of Pond Inlet and the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers
·9· ·Organization opposed the motion.
10· · · · Madam Chair, as you'll recall, a central feature
11· ·of Baffinland's objection to the filing of this
12· ·material was that these reports were based on a
13· ·preliminary information circular that was put forward
14· ·to the Board for consideration in November 2019 and
15· ·that the Board determined they would not review because
16· ·it was bound by confidentiality.
17· · · · Madam Chair, it is our understanding that this
18· ·material in the preliminary information circular has
19· ·since been made public and is no longer confidential.
20· · · · Also in support of the motion by Baffinland Iron
21· ·Mines to prevent the materials from being filed,
22· ·Baffinland filed a memo that outlined a number of
23· ·errors and -- stated to be inaccuracies in the report,
24· ·and those materials are also on the public record for
25· ·the Board.
26· · · · Madam Chair, the Board -- the Panel's decision in
·1· ·this regard is to allow for the filing of the OpenOil
·2· ·report and the Excel spreadsheet recognizing that
·3· ·Baffinland will be able to question Oceans North with
·4· ·respect to the stated position of Baffinland that there
·5· ·are inaccuracies in the report.· However, recognizing
·6· ·that presentation materials were required to be filed
·7· ·by the Board on or before January 18th, and that these
·8· ·materials -- a presentation was filed or purported to
·9· ·be filed on January 26th while the parties are in
10· ·session, and that this is a substantive presentation.
11· ·It's not merely one or two slides.· It's a 30-minute
12· ·presentation that many parties here within the hearing
13· ·venue are not even able to download or look at in
14· ·advance.· The Panel has directed that the Oceans North
15· ·video will not -- by OpenOil will not be filed or form
16· ·part of the public hearing record.
17· · · · And with that, Madam Chair, those conclude the
18· ·Panel's directions with respect to the motions.
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Right now it's just after
20· ·5:00.· We're going to break for supper and reconvene at
21· ·6:30 with a response from Baffinland to Qikiqtani Inuit
22· ·Association's question.
23· ·_______________________________________________________
24· ·PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED UNTIL 6:30 PM
25· ·_______________________________________________________
26· ·(PROCEEDINGS COMMENCED AT 6:36)
·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Welcome back, everyone.
·2· · · · Continuing with questions to the proponent in
·3· ·response to Qikiqtani Inuit Association Bruce Stewart's
·4· ·question.
·5· · · · Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·6· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·7· · · · I'm going to ask Lou Kamermans to respond.· Thank
·8· ·you.
·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
10· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
11· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
12· · · · We appreciate confirmation of the resolution of
13· ·QIA 43 and 44.· As for the partial resolution of
14· ·QIA 45, it's Baffinland's position that we are fully
15· ·confident in Fisheries and Oceans' ability to develop a
16· ·sampling design that meets the requirements of the
17· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association, and the strength of that
18· ·commitment between Fisheries and Oceans Canada as well
19· ·as Transport Canada resolving DFO 3.6.5 and Transport
20· ·Canada 02 should be sufficient to resolve QIA 45.
21· · · · I will leave any further discussion on the
22· ·sampling design for Fisheries and Oceans to speak to in
23· ·their presentation.· Thank you.
24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
25· ·Bruce Stewart.
26· ·MR. STEWART:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· Can
·1· ·you hear me?
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Yes, you may proceed.
·3· ·MR. STEWART:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Lou, for that
·4· ·response.· We will -- Qikiqtani Inuit Association will
·5· ·be following up with a similar question to Fisheries
·6· ·and Oceans Canada.
·7· · · · To -- so to clarify the record, based on
·8· ·Baffinland's response, many of the commitments and
·9· ·Fisheries and Oceans Canada and Qikiqtani Inuit
10· ·Association technical comments just mentioned relate
11· ·directly to the Nunavut Impact Review Board Project
12· ·Certificate 005, Conditions 86 to 89, and these
13· ·conditions do not meet the objective of preventing
14· ·invasive species introductions, nor do they consider
15· ·the transition to treatment of ballast water.
16· · · · Qikiqtani Inuit Association will respond further
17· ·in its final submissions regarding the appropriate
18· ·project certificate conditions to address this concern.
19· ·Madam Chair, if I may continue on with my next
20· ·question?
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Yes, you can proceed.
22· ·MR. STEWART:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
23· · · · Baffinland's waterdrop and bathtub illustration on
24· ·Slide 25 is a simple way to compare the volume of
25· ·ballast water released by shipping to the volume of
26· ·water in Milne Inlet south of Ragged Island.· This
·1· ·comparison makes the amount of ballast water dispersed
·2· ·seem very small.· What this analogy does not capture
·3· ·are several key facts.
·4· · · · First, the fact that some of the largest -- the
·5· ·fact that the real amount of ballast water is
·6· ·equivalent to the amount that is discharged into some
·7· ·of the largest ports in southern Canada.· Second, that
·8· ·these discharges are concentrated at the head of Milne
·9· ·Inlet, and, third, that there will be nearly continuous
10· ·discharges through the open-water period.
11· · · · My question, therefore, is this:· Can Baffinland
12· ·please explain whether the bathtub analogy also applies
13· ·to non-indigenous species released with the ballast
14· ·water, and, if not, why not?· Thank you.
15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
16· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
17· · · · I'd like to ask Marina Winterbottom to respond who
18· ·is with Melanie Austin on the Zoom chat.· Thank you.
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Marina Winterbottom.
20· ·MS. WINTERBOTTOM:· · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
21· ·Marina Winterbottom with Golder Associates for
22· ·Baffinland.
23· · · · Baffinland has implemented world-class mitigation
24· ·and monitoring for invasive species.· It far exceeds
25· ·existing regulatory requirements and far exceeds what
26· ·other ports in Canada are doing to monitor and manage
·1· ·invasive species.· Baffinland has committed to
·2· ·mitigation such as open-ocean ballast exchange far away
·3· ·from coastal areas and treatment of ballast water which
·4· ·greatly reduce the potential for introduction.· In
·5· ·fact, Baffinland requires both treatments and exchange
·6· ·for vessels able to do so, which is above Transport
·7· ·Canada requirements.
·8· · · · We know from the extensive ballast water modelling
·9· ·that discharges will dissipate within a few metres of a
10· ·ship, and so our monitoring in the receiving
11· ·environment appropriately focuses on areas where
12· ·invasion is most likely.· Our surveillance monitoring
13· ·in the marine environment is incredibly comprehensive
14· ·and occurs across multiple atrophic levels in the food
15· ·web, and so plankton to benthic invertebrates to fish.
16· · · · To date, we've demonstrated that our level of
17· ·sampling is functioning as intended and able to detect
18· ·potential non-indigenous species that warrant further
19· ·investigation.· But to be clear, no invasive species as
20· ·a result of project activities has yet been documented
21· ·or confirmed.· Moving forward, Baffinland has committed
22· ·to working with DFO to expand monitoring efforts and
23· ·develop rapid response plans for species identified as
24· ·high risk.· Thank you.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
26· ·Bruce Stewart.
·1· ·MR. STEWART:· · · · · · ·Sorry, Madam Chair.
·2· · · · Marina, thank you for your response.· It didn't
·3· ·answer my question, unfortunately.· Unlike the water,
·4· ·in -- in some of the -- some of the biota discharged
·5· ·with the ballast water will settle out on the bottom or
·6· ·swim in search of suitable habitat.· The head of Milne
·7· ·Inlet offers a wide variety of habitats.· These factors
·8· ·make it more likely for individuals to find other
·9· ·members of their own species for mating, and together
10· ·they increase the likelihood that non-indigenous
11· ·species will establish, reproducing populations, and
12· ·populations of some species may increase and colonize
13· ·other areas.
14· · · · Would not these -- my question, therefore, is
15· ·this:· Would these not -- would not these factors
16· ·affect dispersal and possible establishment of the
17· ·non-indigenous species?· Thank you.
18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
19· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
20· · · · I would, again, like to ask Marina Winterbottom to
21· ·respond.· Thank you.
22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Marina Winterbottom.
23· ·MS. WINTERBOTTOM:· · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
24· ·Marina Winterbottom for Baffinland.
25· · · · I think that this comes down to -- to risk
26· ·assessment.· We understand that the volume and
·1· ·discharge of ballast water creates risk of invasion.
·2· ·However, as I outlined, exchange and treatment mitigate
·3· ·for that.· Further, the temperature and salinity
·4· ·monitoring will confirm that the discharge will not
·5· ·change the biophysical properties of Milne Inlet.
·6· · · · And to -- to circle back to your question about
·7· ·the bathtub, it was intended to describe the scale of
·8· ·what -- of -- of the discharge to just help frame the
·9· ·conversation.· Thank you.
10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
11· ·Bruce Stewart.
12· ·MR. STEWART:· · · · · · ·Sorry, Madam Chair.· I missed
13· ·the mute again.
14· · · · Thank you, Marina, for -- for addressing the
15· ·differences between -- sorry.· Thank you for -- for --
16· ·sorry.· It's important to clarify the distinction
17· ·between what happens to the ballast water and what
18· ·happens to species in the ballast water after it's
19· ·discharged.· I think we've done that in this
20· ·discussion.
21· · · · And thank you, Madam Chair.· I will pass it on to
22· ·Jeff Higdon who has more questions from the Qikiqtani
23· ·Inuit Association.
24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Jeff Higdon.
25· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jeff
26· ·Higdon with the Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
·1· · · · The Qikiqtani Inuit Association has reviewed the
·2· ·two recent submissions on passive acoustic monitoring,
·3· ·one prepared by JASCO on behalf of the proponent and
·4· ·one prepared by Oceans North and Scripps Institute of
·5· ·Oceanography.· I have some questions about the -- how
·6· ·the acoustic monitoring results can inform adaptive
·7· ·management and mitigation and how they can be
·8· ·integrated with the results of other programs.
·9· · · · Both reports provide data that can inform
10· ·mitigation.· For example, general cargo vessels and
11· ·fuel and chemical tankers are often noisier than the
12· ·work carriers and certain vessels in each class tend to
13· ·be noisier than other vessels in that class.
14· · · · The fuel tankers, the Sarah Desgagnes, as an
15· ·example, is a noisier vessel than others in that class.
16· ·The JASCO study suggests that this is due to its larger
17· ·size compared to the tankers.· The Oceans North report
18· ·suggested that this vessel could be a good candidate
19· ·for mitigation measures to address some of the excess
20· ·noise sound-generating characteristics.
21· · · · In addition, there is high variability in noise
22· ·output from different vessels in each vessel class and
23· ·even for different transits of the same vessel.· The
24· ·JASCO technical memo does a good job of highlighting
25· ·some of these factors that will contribute to its
26· ·variability, including transit speeds, vessel -- vessel
·1· ·draft, vessel length, vessel load, vessel engine power,
·2· ·and weather conditions.
·3· · · · So my questions are:· Will the proponent commit to
·4· ·analyzing the noise output data it has collected to
·5· ·determine how the above-noted factors influence
·6· ·variability and vessel noise outputs and how those
·7· ·results can then inform mitigation strategies?· And,
·8· ·furthermore, will the proponent commit to implementing
·9· ·vessel-specific mitigation strategies for individual
10· ·vessels that are particularly noisy?· Thank you.
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
12· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
13· · · · I'd like to ask Lou Kamermans to respond.· Thank
14· ·you.
15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
16· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
17· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
18· · · · I believe this is something that we can
19· ·investigate through the development of our adaptive
20· ·management plans related to the marine monitoring
21· ·program as well as the shipping and marine wildlife
22· ·management plan.· We have previously reviewed -- I
23· ·think the -- the Inuktitut is not coming through in
24· ·Iqaluit.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Can you hear now in Iqaluit
26· ·Inuktitut?
·1· ·UNKNOWN SPEAKER:· · · · ·It's good.
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
·3· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· I'll
·4· ·begin again.
·5· · · · So I do believe vessel-specific management is an
·6· ·option we can explore to the development of the
·7· ·adaptive management plan as a potential response to
·8· ·observing or to monitoring demonstrating that the --
·9· ·the acoustic sounds of vessels are louder than
10· ·expected.
11· · · · There is a program run under Green Marine that
12· ·looks at different certification levels.· That could be
13· ·explored further.· That -- that's becoming more
14· ·standard around ports in the industry.· That would, of
15· ·course, have to be weighed against the availability of
16· ·vessels to us to -- to work with us each season.· Sarah
17· ·Desgagnes, for example, a vessel that operates in the
18· ·north regardless of whether we contract them or not,
19· ·and there are only so many vessels that are available
20· ·to us each year.
21· · · · So certainly something we can pursue as -- as a
22· ·management tool to implement in an adaptive management
23· ·scenario, and we can consider that further through both
24· ·the marine monitoring program and the shipping and
25· ·marine wildlife management plan.· Thank you.
26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
·1· ·Jeff Higdon.
·2· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jeff
·3· ·Higdon for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
·4· · · · The whole passive acoustic monitoring reports show
·5· ·that there's more energy radiating from the stern of
·6· ·vessels than from the bow aspect.· This is in agreement
·7· ·with the findings of numerous other studies.· This
·8· ·means there are longer periods with elevated noise
·9· ·levels following a ship transit than preceding it.
10· · · · How will data from this analysis be integrated
11· ·with other monitoring programs?· For example, the
12· ·Bruce Head shore-based observation program.
13· ·Specifically, as an example, how can findings from the
14· ·passive acoustic assessment inform the analysis of data
15· ·on southbound versus northbound transits past the Bruce
16· ·Head study site?· Will the proponent commit to using
17· ·existing passive acoustic data collected for the
18· ·project in a retrospective analysis of noise output and
19· ·behavioural observations from the Bruce Head program?
20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Jeff Higdon.
21· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · And will the proponent commit
22· ·to --
23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Jeff Higdon.
24· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Yes, Madam Chair.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·If you can please slow down
26· ·for the interpreter and pause --
·1· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · I will.
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·-- between sentences.
·3· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · My apologies.
·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Please continue.
·5· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
·6· · · · How will data from this analysis be integrated
·7· ·with other monitoring programs?· For example, the
·8· ·shore-based observation program at Bruce Head.
·9· ·Specifically, how can findings from the passive
10· ·acoustic assessment inform the analysis of data on
11· ·southbound versus northbound transits past the Bruce
12· ·Head study site?
13· · · · Will the proponent commit to using existive --
14· ·existing, sorry, passive acoustic data in a
15· ·retrospective analysis of noise and behavioural
16· ·observations from Bruce Head program, and will the
17· ·proponent commit to including such integrated analyses
18· ·in future monitoring of project shipping?· Thank you.
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
20· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
21· · · · Yes.· And I believe that we could work on the
22· ·language between us and report back.· Thank you.
23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
24· ·Jeff Higdon.
25· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jeff
26· ·Higdon for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· Thank you,
·1· ·Ms. Lord-Hoyle.
·2· · · · The Scripps report on passive acoustics provides
·3· ·information on the noise signatures the icebreaker,
·4· ·IMV [sic] Botnica.· That study notes that this vessel
·5· ·has a higher potential for biologically relevant
·6· ·impacts because of its acoustics characteristics,
·7· ·characteristics that may result from design or
·8· ·operational parameters.
·9· · · · The report from Oceans North and Scripps Institute
10· ·recommends that the acoustics characteristics for this
11· ·particular vessel will be further investigated to
12· ·potential mitigation or noise abatement measures.· My
13· ·question is:· Will Baffinland commit to investigating
14· ·the icebreaker IMV Botnica in greater detail to
15· ·identify potential mitigation or noise abatement
16· ·measures?· Thank you.
17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
18· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
19· · · · Yes.· We will agree to investigate that.· Thank
20· ·you.
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
22· ·Jeff Higdon.
23· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jeff
24· ·Higdon for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· Thank you,
25· ·Ms. Lord-Hoyle.
26· · · · I have a follow-up related to that question.· The
·1· ·recent JASCO report states that additional analysis of
·2· ·sounds from the icebreaker will be included in a
·3· ·forthcoming monitoring report based on data collected
·4· ·near Ragged Island and Bylot Island during the 2019
·5· ·early and late shoulder seasons and the 2020 early
·6· ·shoulder season.· My question is:· Are these analyses
·7· ·ongoing, and will the proponent commit to providing
·8· ·this report within 30 days of the Board issuing their
·9· ·decision report?· Thank you.
10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
11· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
12· · · · Yes.· Thank you.
13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
14· ·Jeff Higdon.
15· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jeff
16· ·Higdon for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· Thank you,
17· ·Ms. Lord-Hoyle.
18· · · · I have some questions about acoustic masting --
19· ·masking, sorry, of marine mammal vocalizations.· This
20· ·will be my last series of questions for Round 1.
21· · · · Both passive acoustic monitoring reports report on
22· ·acoustic masking.· The -- the proponent's presentation
23· ·today also reported on acoustic masking.· Different
24· ·reports have reported on two different measures.· One
25· ·term listening space reduction, the other term
26· ·listening range reduction.· I have a few questions on
·1· ·this, which I will just -- I will go through them in
·2· ·sequence.
·3· · · · So I'd like more information on what are the
·4· ·primary differences and conversely similarities in
·5· ·these two measurements?· Which metric is better and
·6· ·why?· This will help us, you know, determine which is a
·7· ·better metric to use.· So, for example, is -- is one
·8· ·more informative or more understandable for laypersons
·9· ·who myself is a layperson in -- in this question?
10· ·Which of the two metrics is more easily reported from a
11· ·monitoring perspective, and which of these two metrics
12· ·is best and easiest to describe through the context of
13· ·Inuit observations of narwhal responses to vessel
14· ·traffic?· Thank you, Madam Chair.
15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
16· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
17· ·I'll ask Melanie Austin to respond.· Thank you.
18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Melanie Austin.
19· ·MS. AUSTIN:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
20· · · · The two metrics that are being asked about, one is
21· ·listening space reduction, which describes the
22· ·reduction in the volume of space over which a marine
23· ·mammal is able to communicate with other marine mammals
24· ·within that same volume of space.· The other metric is
25· ·the listening range reduction, which describes a
26· ·reduction of the distance over which two animals --
·1· ·marine mammals could communicate with each other.
·2· · · · JASCO has provided calculations of the listening
·3· ·range reduction because it is more intuitive, is more
·4· ·the question that we're trying to understand of how far
·5· ·away animals can communicate with and without the
·6· ·presence of noise like vessel noise.
·7· · · · Particularly, in this environment, where we have
·8· ·narrow channels and the range is restricted by the
·9· ·shoreline and the geography, the listening range gives
10· ·a more meaningful understanding of where animals are
11· ·able to communicate with each other.
12· · · · The calculations are based on the same principles
13· ·in the same general approach.· The question is just
14· ·around understanding a total area within which animals
15· ·can communicate with each other or the distance over
16· ·which they can communicate relative to a condition when
17· ·there is no noise present.· Thank you.
18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
19· ·Jeff Higdon.
20· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jeff
21· ·Higdon for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· Thank you,
22· ·Ms. Austin.
23· · · · That was a very helpful summary and description
24· ·and -- and definitely helped me gain a better
25· ·understanding of what these two metrics are, how
26· ·they're similar, and how they're different.· So I
·1· ·greatly appreciate that.· I have no further questions
·2· ·for Round 1 for the marine question.· I will return the
·3· ·microphone to Mr. Ottenhof at QIA in case somebody else
·4· ·does.· Thank you, Madam Chair.
·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
·6· ·Chris Spencer.
·7· · · · Jared Ottenhof.
·8· ·MR. OTTENHOF:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jared
·9· ·Ottenhof for Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
10· · · · I believe we still have questions left.· There may
11· ·have been a slight misunderstanding.· Is there only one
12· ·round of questions for the marine section right now?
13· ·Thank you.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Yes.· If you have more
15· ·questions, ask.
16· ·MR. OTTENHOF:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jared
17· ·Ottenhof, Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
18· · · · I'd like to turn it to back to Jeff Higdon.· Thank
19· ·you.
20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
21· ·Jeff Higdon.
22· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jeff
23· ·Higdon for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· I have a
24· ·series of questions about -- with respect to ringed
25· ·seals.
26· · · · Baffinland has made a commitment to the Qikiqtani
·1· ·Inuit Association at the November 2019 public hearing
·2· ·which states that:· (as read)
·3· · · · Baffinland commits to developing a ringed
·4· · · · seal monitoring plan that incorporates Inuit
·5· · · · perspectives into the design, planning, and
·6· · · · implementation phases.
·7· ·My question is this:· Is Baffinland committed to
·8· ·integrating Inuit-defined indicators, thresholds, and
·9· ·responses into its adaptive management plan, and, if
10· ·so, through what mechanism is this plan to occur, and
11· ·does the proponent support a project certificate
12· ·condition ensuring that this structure is adhered to?
13· ·Thank you.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
15· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
16· · · · I believe this was confirmed yesterday.
17· ·Baffinland's already put forward proposed commitment
18· ·language as Commitment 186 in the commitment list.· So
19· ·I -- I suggest that we can continue refining that
20· ·language if that's needed, but, yes.· Thank you.
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
22· ·Jeff Higdon.
23· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Is Baffinland committed to
24· ·identifying tiered thresholds -- by which I mean low,
25· ·moderate, and high thresholds for ringed seals as
26· ·framed in this draft management plan -- adaptive
·1· ·management plan?· Sorry.· Thank you.
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·3· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·4· · · · I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond.· Thank you.
·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
·6· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
·7· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·8· · · · Yes.· Baffinland is committed to developing low,
·9· ·moderate, and high thresholds in relation to seal
10· ·monitoring.· Because that program is -- is yet to be
11· ·developed and the Inuit focus that it is meant to have,
12· ·it is -- I think it would be beneficial for the timing
13· ·of -- of the development of these to be assisted by the
14· ·development of the Inuit committee.
15· · · · So through the development of -- of both the
16· ·committee and -- and developing that program, I think
17· ·that it's the natural place where we will develop those
18· ·triggers as well as through the implementation of that
19· ·program.· Thank you.
20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
21· ·Jeff Higdon.
22· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jeff
23· ·Higdon for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· Thank you,
24· ·Mr. Kamermans.
25· · · · I have one last question in regards to ringed seal
26· ·monitoring.· The proponent is looking at aerial surveys
·1· ·for ringed seal density as one component for monitoring
·2· ·ringed seals via the adaptive management plan.· I would
·3· ·like to know what other opportunities for ringed seal
·4· ·monitoring besides aerial surveys of ringed seal
·5· ·density can be considered.
·6· · · · Will the proponent commit to more detailed
·7· ·monitoring of ringed seals through the shipboard
·8· ·observer program by collecting and reporting
·9· ·behavioural response data for ringed seals exposed to
10· ·vessel traffic in the spring and fall shoulder seasons?
11· ·Thank you.
12· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
13· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
14· · · · Yes.· Thank you.
15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
16· ·Jeff Higdon.
17· ·MR. HIGDON:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jeff
18· ·Higdon for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· Thank you,
19· ·Ms. Lord-Hoyle.
20· · · · I have no further questions.· Thank you.
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association,
22· ·Chris Spencer.
23· · · · Jared Ottenhof.
24· ·MR. OTTENHOF:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jared
25· ·Ottenhof for Qikiqtani Inuit Association.
26· · · · I believe that's all of our questions on marine
·1· ·environment.· Thank you.
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
·3· ·Incorporated, James Eetoolook.
·4· ·Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated Questions Baffinland
·5· ·Iron Mines Corporation
·6· ·MR. EETOOLOOK:· · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· James
·7· ·Eetoolook from Nunavut Tunngavik.
·8· · · · I have two questions, and after I'm done, Paul
·9· ·Irngaut from the wildlife and environment will be
10· ·asking from Nunavut Tunngavik, and also David Lee, a
11· ·biologist for Nunavut Tunngavik, will be asking
12· ·questions as well.· Thank you.
13· · · · If you look at Slide 30, it says here that in the
14· ·stockpiling of the Milne Port, that the iron
15· ·concentration would be increased in the marine
16· ·environment in the salt water.
17· · · · So my question is:· So the road that is being
18· ·currently used, the tote road, does it have more dust,
19· ·or does the mine itself, the blasting, have more dust?
20· ·Which one has more dust?
21· · · · So in terms of the dust, is it from the blasting
22· ·when it increases the dust there if the Project 2 was
23· ·to increase in their mining and more dust from the
24· ·mine?· And I'll ask -- have an additional question
25· ·related to that.· Thank you.
26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·1· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·2· · · · I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond.
·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
·4· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
·5· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·6· · · · So looking at Slide 30, the focus there is on
·7· ·Milne Port, and so the sources of dust from Milne Port
·8· ·would be from either the movement of ore or from the
·9· ·stockpiling and -- and the weathering, so when wind is
10· ·hitting it while it's -- it's there throughout the
11· ·year.· In our modelling, I do not believe that blasting
12· ·at the quarry that is at Milne Port is a significant
13· ·source of dust, and that quarry will not be used for
14· ·the life of the mine.· It will mostly be used during
15· ·construction.
16· · · · So we tried to manage dust at Milne Port in a few
17· ·different ways.· One of those ways is -- is when we're
18· ·moving the ore around, we -- we have the shoots and the
19· ·shrouds on the equipment.· So whenever it's being
20· ·transferred from one piece to another, it's -- we're
21· ·minimizing how much dust can escape.· And with Phase 2,
22· ·even though we're moving crushing to Milne Port,
23· ·because it will all happen in an enclosed facility, all
24· ·the dust from that activity will be captured.· So it
25· ·won't be like the outdoor crushing that happens right
26· ·now at the mine site.
·1· · · · And the other thing we're -- we're actively
·2· ·managing right now are the stockpiles, and that would
·3· ·continue for Phase 2, and so this year, we're -- we're
·4· ·experimenting with a new product called "DusTreat".
·5· ·We've seen positive results from applying a product
·6· ·called Dust Stop to our road which helps control the
·7· ·dust when -- when the trucks are driving on it.· This
·8· ·product, DusTreat, that we're putting on the stockpile,
·9· ·essentially, it -- it covers and encloses the stockpile
10· ·where it is, and it can stop the wind from blowing the
11· ·dust around.· So that's ongoing, and we don't have the
12· ·monitoring yet to show how effective it's been.· But
13· ·it's something we know has been used elsewhere.
14· · · · The stockpiles that our ore can go to in Europe
15· ·have used that product, and we're hopeful that it'll be
16· ·successful at our -- at the Milne Port as well, and it
17· ·will help control dust.· So those are -- those are the
18· ·sources that we see being at Milne Port, and those are
19· ·the ways we're trying to control all of them.· Thank
20· ·you.
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
22· ·Incorporated, James Eetoolook.
23· ·MR. EETOOLOOK:· · · · · ·Thank you, Chairperson.· If
24· ·you look at Slide 31, it says here in 2015 to 2019 that
25· ·this iron ore is not increasing to the bottom of the
26· ·ocean.· So there's little concentration in fish in
·1· ·regards to metal concentration, and it's the same
·2· ·statement for 2010 to 2019, but can you tell over time
·3· ·in a cumulative method whether that iron will be
·4· ·increased into the fish?· And Charlie Inuarak was
·5· ·saying earlier there's hardly any fish and that the sea
·6· ·mammals and narwhals and seals are hard to be visual in
·7· ·that particular area.
·8· · · · We know that if there's a contamination and it
·9· ·flows on top of the water, it has to sink to the
10· ·bottom, and it's impossible, then, to clean it from the
11· ·bottom of the ocean, especially when it's in the water,
12· ·and there would be contaminants going into the ocean.
13· ·So you need to have meticulate monitoring to ensure
14· ·that they're -- the level of iron from Mary River.
15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
16· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
17· · · · Thank you for the question.· I'll ask Marina
18· ·Winterbottom to respond.· Thank you.
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Marina Winterbottom.
20· ·MS. WINTERBOTTOM:· · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
21· ·Marina Winterbottom, Golder Associates for Baffinland.
22· · · · Before I answer the meat of your question, I'd
23· ·like to note that we've heard from Inuit that iron
24· ·entering the marine environment is a major concern,
25· ·which is why we've put effort into tracking it via
26· ·multiple receptors, so not just marine sediment but
·1· ·also in water quality sampling and sampling of fish and
·2· ·shell fish tissues as well.· So because we're taking
·3· ·this multiple lines of evidence approach, we're not
·4· ·just relying on a single indicator, so we're confident
·5· ·in our ability to identify any changes.
·6· · · · I'd also like to point out that iron is
·7· ·naturally -- that iron is natural abundant in the
·8· ·marine environment.· Okay.· I'll stop.· I believe
·9· ·the -- that I'm not being heard in Iqaluit, so I'll
10· ·just wait until I can confirm that I can be heard.
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·NIRB staff.
12· ·MS. COSTELLO:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Karen
13· ·Costello for the Nunavut Impact Review Board.
14· · · · I understand we have currently lost the connection
15· ·to Iqaluit, so if we could just allow technicians to
16· ·check.· Thank you, Madam Chair.
17· ·MR. MORRISON:· · · · · · Madam Chair, this is Keith
18· ·Morrison from Iqaluit.
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Go ahead, Keith.
20· ·MR. MORRISON:· · · · · · There was no loss of
21· ·connection here at all.· Oh, sorry.· Correction.· There
22· ·was a minor one.
23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Marina Winterbottom, please
24· ·continue with your response.
25· ·MS. WINTERBOTTOM:· · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
26· · · · In addition to monitoring iron via multiple
·1· ·receptors, I'd also like to point out that iron
·2· ·concentrations in the marine environment are naturally
·3· ·abundant.· To answer the specific question, iron
·4· ·concentrations have been monitored in sediment since
·5· ·2014, since before project operations began.
·6· · · · Results through time indicate that there have been
·7· ·some localized changes at individual locations, but no
·8· ·evidence to suggest that overall concentrations have
·9· ·increased over time.· Similarly, with Arctic char,
10· ·specifically, we look at iron in the muscle, and
11· ·concentrations in -- of iron in char muscle have
12· ·decreased relative to -- to 2010.
13· · · · This is aligned with assessment predictions, and
14· ·moving forward and to address any uncertainty,
15· ·Baffinland has committed to ongoing follow-up
16· ·monitoring to verify this prediction.· Thank you, Madam
17· ·Chair.
18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
19· ·Incorporated, James Eetoolook.
20· ·MR. EETOOLOOK:· · · · · ·Qujannamiik, Madam Chair. I
21· ·have no further questions.· I'm giving it to Paul
22· ·Irngaut.
23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Paul Irngaut.
24· ·MR. IRNGAUT:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Chairperson.· This
25· ·is Paul Irngaut from Nunavut Tunngavik.
26· · · · In addition to that question, in Slide 22, there
·1· ·would be a bigger development in the Milne Port just to
·2· ·say at first, as an Inuk, not knowing -- well, we don't
·3· ·have access to technology sometimes or computers, and
·4· ·some of the things that are mentioned here, that they
·5· ·are available at a certain website, we don't have
·6· ·ability to look at those pieces of paper or documents.
·7· ·So we have this -- we have to ask these questions
·8· ·verbally even though they are written.
·9· · · · We know that from Pond Inlet and hearing from Pond
10· ·Inlet that fish are affected and seals are affected and
11· ·narwhals are affected.· It says in Tab 22 that there
12· ·would be monitoring and research.· From the
13· ·environment, there would be some monitoring on the
14· ·noise levels.· So if there's construction and expansion
15· ·at the Milne Port, would there be a big increase to the
16· ·noise?
17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
18· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
19· · · · I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond, thank you.
20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
21· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
22· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
23· · · · So Slide 22 speaks to our plans during port
24· ·construction.· So before we are able to move forward
25· ·with construction of the second ore dock, we will need
26· ·a Fisheries Act authorization, and so that process will
·1· ·only be allowed to begin should Phase 2 be approved by
·2· ·the Nunavut Impact Review Board.
·3· · · · That process and that application will look at how
·4· ·we plan to -- to build the ore dock at a very detailed
·5· ·level, and then if it's approved, we will get a permit
·6· ·that gives us very specific mitigations that we have to
·7· ·implement to avoid impacts to wildlife.
·8· · · · So some of those were spoken about in the
·9· ·presentation.· This would include the use of bubble
10· ·curtains.· So that's something that goes in the water
11· ·that dampens the noise.· So it reduces how far it can
12· ·travel, how loud it is, and that would be to manage the
13· ·short bursts of sound that happen when you're building
14· ·the dock, whether you're installing the piles,
15· ·dredging, and other of those construction activities.
16· · · · When we built the freight dock and the first ore
17· ·dock, we gained a lot of experience in this.· This is
18· ·also something that is quite common.· So there's lots
19· ·of lessons learned from all over Canada.
20· · · · Another thing we'll do is have wildlife monitors
21· ·present the entire time, and we'll have setbacks so
22· ·that we can't do any of the work that creates the noise
23· ·if wildlife were in a certain distance of the
24· ·construction area.
25· · · · So, overall, this is -- because it's construction,
26· ·it's not meant to last very long.· We're thinking about
·1· ·a year to a year and a half for the construction, and
·2· ·the point that would create the noise would be much
·3· ·shorter than that, and it would be tightly regulated by
·4· ·Fisheries and Oceans Canada.· Thank you.
·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Before we continue with
·6· ·questions to the proponent, we're going to take a
·7· ·15-minute break.
·8· ·(ADJOURNMENT)
·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · · · · Welcome back, everyone.
10· ·Continuing with questions to Baffinland.· Nunavut
11· ·Tunngavik Incorporated, Paul Irngaut.
12· ·Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated Questions Baffinland
13· ·Iron Mines Corporation
14· ·MR. IRNGAUT:· · · · · · ·Thank you.· Paul Irngaut from
15· ·Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated.
16· · · · The person who responded, three ladies and two
17· ·gentlemen replied.· Under Slide 31, they monitor about
18· ·the metal concentrations on fish tissue.· That was
19· ·explained and also the iron is already not -- is not in
20· ·the water already.· We're referring to marine
21· ·environment, but I want -- like, fish migrate through
22· ·the rivers to the lakes near the tote road, and I
23· ·want -- and then we have heard, like, the lakes near
24· ·the tote road, the dust has already gathered at the
25· ·lakes, and it's quite thick in some area.· And the
26· ·people who were trying to fetch water cannot because of
·1· ·all the dust accumulating in the lakes.
·2· · · · And then we have also heard that -- well,
·3· ·discussing amongst ourselves, like, during the spring,
·4· ·like, the dust should be quite heavy, so in the
·5· ·springtime it just sinks to the bottom of the ocean.
·6· ·It seems apparent -- like, it affects -- it has
·7· ·negative effects on fish, and also the people of Pond
·8· ·Inlet have repeatedly said there is hardly any fish in
·9· ·that area.
10· · · · And this morning there was a presenter --
11· ·Charlie Inuarak was making a comment that cod and the
12· ·smaller fish, he was concerned that they may have been
13· ·negatively impacted by the dust because it can
14· ·impact -- the dust can impact anything.
15· · · · The woman who was explaining said metal
16· ·concentrations in fish have recently decreased -- that
17· ·was my understanding -- and if that lady can respond.
18· ·Like, the people of Pond Inlet continually say that
19· ·there are hardly any fish, hardly any seal, or hardly
20· ·any narwhal, and I want -- while people really -- like,
21· ·char and cod are on the food chain.· I wonder where --
22· ·do you know where the fish went and the metal
23· ·concentration -- iron concentrations tend to decrease
24· ·in Arctic char, and where are the -- where did the char
25· ·all go?
26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·1· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·2· · · · I'm going to ask Marina Winterbottom to respond.
·3· ·Thank you.
·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Marina Winterbottom.
·5· ·MS. WINTERBOTTOM:· · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
·6· ·Marina Winterbottom, Golder Associates.
·7· · · · Thank you for the issues that you raised and the
·8· ·concerns you've brought forward.· You're right that we
·9· ·have been assessing iron in the environment through
10· ·multiple receptors because we've heard what an
11· ·important concern it is for Inuit.· Our fish sampling
12· ·focuses on three species, including Arctic char, and
13· ·the levels that we've seen in Arctic char in recent
14· ·years have actually declined relative to pre-project
15· ·conditions.· So the amount of iron in char is going
16· ·down.
17· · · · We will continue to monitor iron levels in marine
18· ·sediments and in fish tissues going forward.· Thank
19· ·you.
20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
21· ·Incorporated, Paul Irngaut.
22· ·MR.· IRNGAUT:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Paul
23· ·Irngaut from Nunavut Tunngavik.
24· · · · I don't have any more questions.· David Lee has
25· ·some questions, and he will ask some questions.· Thank
26· ·you.
·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·David Lee.
·2· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· David
·3· ·Lee for Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated.
·4· · · · On Slide 45, Baffinland provided an animation that
·5· ·narwhals can and do react to ships, at least in the
·6· ·short term.· My first question is:· The animation
·7· ·showed three tagged narwhal out of, I believe, 20.
·8· ·Could you please describe the behaviour of the other
·9· ·tagged narwhal.· Thank you.
10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
11· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
12· · · · I'll ask Phil Rouget to respond.· Thank you.
13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Phil Rouget.
14· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Phil Rouget, Golder Associates
15· ·for Baffinland.
16· · · · The question is around -- we're requested to
17· ·describe the behaviour of narwhal that were tagged
18· ·other than the three shown in the animation on
19· ·Slide 40?
20· · · · We prepared animations as well as dive plots for
21· ·all vessel-narwhal interaction, so it was interesting
22· ·to us to look at the variable range of response of
23· ·narwhal to ships both in a two-dimensional sense like
24· ·we saw in the video, but also more importantly in three
25· ·dimensions so that we could understand how narwhal were
26· ·diving around the vessels as well.
·1· · · · As I had mentioned in the presentation, the
·2· ·example provided represents one of the more obvious
·3· ·responses by narwhal.· It would be accurate to say the
·4· ·other animations that we have looked at are similar as
·5· ·the one that was shown today, and perhaps it would be
·6· ·fair to say not as obvious.
·7· · · · We put more confidence in looking at the dive
·8· ·profiles because the resolution of the data is higher
·9· ·both for the vessel positions as well as for the animal
10· ·position, which is recorded every one second throughout
11· ·its dive, whereas the horizontal motion of the animal
12· ·is limited by the number of transmissions we'd get on
13· ·the GPS, which is about maximum four an hour.
14· · · · As part of our tagging report, the Golder 2019,
15· ·2017, 2018, integrated narwhal tagging report, plots
16· ·are provided in the appendix for every single one of
17· ·those interaction in order to be transparent with all
18· ·parties reviewing the report and see for themselves the
19· ·degree of response by all the animals.
20· · · · Furthermore, this is a shared program with DFO.
21· ·We both co-own the data, and they have full access to
22· ·the data, and I believe they're working that data up or
23· ·will be working that data up shortly.· Thank you.
24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
25· ·Incorporated, David Lee.
26· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair, and
·1· ·thank you, Phil, for the response.
·2· · · · I'll comment that I look forward to that
·3· ·information, and I assume that the reason they're not
·4· ·showing as much reaction is because they could
·5· ·potentially not be near the ships or avoiding the ships
·6· ·completely.· However, I realize that hasn't been
·7· ·created yet, and I'll look forward to the report.
·8· · · · My next question is:· On the same slide, based on
·9· ·Courtenay et al., 2021, which was just published, in
10· ·which cortisol levels indicated increased stress of
11· ·narwhal in Eclipse Sound.· And Williams et al.,
12· ·2017, showed that narwhals were highly susceptible to
13· ·disturbance because they have a low resting heart rate,
14· ·and being jolted into an escape response with fast
15· ·swimming and activity resulted in energetic -- caused
16· ·three to six times the resting rate, rapidly depleting
17· ·on-board oxygen stores.· Could Baffinland provide how
18· ·many escape responses narwhal might experience during
19· ·the shipping period for Phase 2?· Thank you.
20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
21· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
22· · · · I'll ask Phil Rouget to respond.· Thank you.
23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Phil Rouget.
24· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Phil Rouget, Golder Associates
25· ·for Baffinland.· Thank you for that comment, David.
26· · · · Two references are provided by NTI.· I'll start
·1· ·with the Williams et al. reference talking about escape
·2· ·response in narwhal.
·3· · · · I do agree with -- or I'm aware of that paper and
·4· ·I agree with the findings of that paper, but the
·5· ·context is very different, and I'll tell you why.
·6· · · · The Williams et al. paper characterizes an acute
·7· ·dive response demonstrated by narwhal after they're
·8· ·live captured and then stranded on the shore so that
·9· ·tags can be attached to record their heart rate and the
10· ·physiology of their dive after they're released.
11· · · · There seems to be sort of some suggestion that a
12· ·narwhal dive response after a very stressful live
13· ·capture and stranding event would be similar to its
14· ·dive response when it's in the vicinity of ships.· It
15· ·should be noted that live capture is probably one of
16· ·the most stressful experiences any animal could ever be
17· ·exposed to.
18· · · · The two responses are not the same in any form.
19· ·We know from our tagging work as well as from
20· ·historical tagging studies that extreme dive responses
21· ·that -- like that described from Williams et al. and
22· ·those exhibited by narwhal in proximity to ships are
23· ·different.· The ones close to ships express localized,
24· ·temporary, and reversible responses that would not best
25· ·be described as escape responses but rather localized
26· ·avoidance.
·1· · · · The second reference mentioned was Watt et al.,
·2· ·2021, which discusses stress response -- or stress
·3· ·cortisol levels, which is an index for stress in
·4· ·narwhal and how it increases over time and how it's
·5· ·correlated with an increase in shipping over a similar
·6· ·time period.
·7· · · · The paper itself acknowledges that there are a
·8· ·number of drivers that could be -- that correlate
·9· ·equally well with the increase in cortisol, which
10· ·include predation from an increased number of killer
11· ·whale coming into the Eclipse Sound area earlier in the
12· ·season, decreased sea ice due to climate change,
13· ·changing prey availability, increased harvesting and
14· ·shipping and other vessel activity.
15· · · · These are all correlations.· There has been no
16· ·causal link determined for any of those drivers.· It's
17· ·quite a complex topic for which we acknowledge and we
18· ·consider in our assessment.· We've been asked to look
19· ·at stress -- stress indexes such as cortisol as an
20· ·indicator, and there's challenges with that because
21· ·it's hard to tease apart the real source of that stress
22· ·particularly if it's a combined contributor of
23· ·different stressors.
24· · · · That's my comments on that paper for now.· Thank
25· ·you.
26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
·1· ·Incorporated, David Lee.
·2· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·3· ·David Lee for Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated.
·4· · · · Thank you, Phil, for your response.
·5· · · · I also agree that tagging is probably one of the
·6· ·most stressful events that can occur, but these results
·7· ·along with the Watt et al. paper, which you've
·8· ·described many other factors, seem to indicate that
·9· ·there is a high degree of uncertainty with the
10· ·potential for chronic effects on narwhal to which
11· ·shipping activity could contribute.· How did you then
12· ·determine that these would not be significant with
13· ·increased shipping levels given what you've just
14· ·responded to for both papers.· Thank you.
15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
16· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
17· · · · I'll ask Phil Rouget to respond.· Thank you.
18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Phil Rouget.
19· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Phil
20· ·Rouget, Golder Associates.
21· · · · We are in agreement that the effects of stress
22· ·have not been well studied in narwhal to any extent.
23· ·As stated before, it's a complex process involving all
24· ·the stress drivers we've talked about.· However, it is
25· ·not our belief that project shipping will result in
26· ·decreased fitness at the individual or stock level
·1· ·given the level and nature of the types of responses we
·2· ·have observed to date, which are limited to temporary,
·3· ·localized, and reversible responsiveness -- responses.
·4· · · · And also taking into account the proportion of
·5· ·time that a narwhal would be exposed to disturbance,
·6· ·which has been modelled and measured or forecasted to
·7· ·be less than two hours a day under a worst-case
·8· ·scenario during the shipping season and five hours a
·9· ·day during the early shoulder season.
10· · · · We fully acknowledge the uncertainty, but we do
11· ·flag the conservative assumptions that have been built
12· ·into the assessment and the modelling.· Recognized
13· ·mitigation measures have been developed specifically
14· ·for managing noise effects on narwhal, and these exceed
15· ·industry and regulatory standards.
16· · · · And, further, to address the uncertainty, our plan
17· ·is to continue and expand on the extensive monitoring
18· ·programs to validate the impact predictions and trust
19· ·the adaptive management system if results show we are
20· ·seeing impacts beyond those predicted.
21· · · · I think the one thing that seems to get overlooked
22· ·by many of the intervenors is that narwhal are able to
23· ·habituate or get used to underwater noise if they learn
24· ·it's not a threat.· There's numerous examples in the
25· ·literature where Arctic animals have been studied under
26· ·different exposure scenarios, including shipping noise.
·1· · · · And what the studies show is that marine mammals
·2· ·exposed to a new sound for the first time often show an
·3· ·obvious and strong behavioural response such as
·4· ·avoidance, but if those animals learn that the specific
·5· ·noise is not a threat that would put themselves or
·6· ·their calves at risk or prevent them from undertaking
·7· ·their normal day-to-day activities like foraging, then
·8· ·following repeated exposure to that same noise source,
·9· ·that response becomes less acute over time, often
10· ·resulting in only a low-level response or even a lack
11· ·of a response unless in very close proximity to the
12· ·source.
13· · · · This is particularly true if the source of the
14· ·ship -- source of noise is predictable, which is
15· ·typical with shipping in this context, given ships
16· ·follow the same shipping route and travel at the same
17· ·speed over the same months of the year.
18· · · · This is also why our mitigation includes ships
19· ·having instructions not to suddenly change their speed
20· ·or direction while in transit along the established
21· ·shipping route.
22· · · · The ability of narwhal to habituate is consistent
23· ·with many of the observations shared by Inuit monitors
24· ·involved in our long-term monitoring program.· We've
25· ·heard that numerous times.· It's also well documented
26· ·in available IQ sources, including Technical Support
·1· ·Document Number 3.· Thank you.
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
·3· ·Incorporated, David Lee.
·4· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· David
·5· ·Lee for Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, and thank you,
·6· ·again, Phil and Megan, for your responses.
·7· · · · I'll move on to Slide 53.· In your presentation
·8· ·you stated that the population size of the Eclipse
·9· ·Sound summering stock was measured and was shown to be
10· ·consistent within the range of previous population
11· ·estimates, including shipping.
12· · · · 2013 is used as the reference point; however, the
13· ·2013 Bruce Head study observed 26 vessel occurrences of
14· ·which there were six Baffin Island -- Baffin Iron
15· ·Mining Corporation vessels.· Could you please confirm
16· ·that when you state "pre-shipping", you mean prior to
17· ·ore carrying vessels?· Thank you.
18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
19· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
20· · · · Yes, that's correct.· Thank you.
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
22· ·Incorporated, David Lee.
23· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· David
24· ·Lee for Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated.· Thank you,
25· ·Ms. Lord-Hoyle.
26· · · · Could you confirm that there are no scientific
·1· ·studies that have investigated the impacts of
·2· ·increasing vessel traffic that has occurred in this
·3· ·area with respect to population trends, narwhal
·4· ·population trends, or dynamics during this period?
·5· ·Thank you.
·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·7· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·8· · · · I would suggest that that is what our scientific
·9· ·studies are doing, but perhaps I misunderstood the
10· ·question.· Thank you.
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
12· ·Incorporated, David Lee.
13· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· David
14· ·Lee for Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated.
15· · · · The period that I'm referring to is from 2004 to
16· ·2013, but rather than repeat that question, I'll follow
17· ·up with another question, and that is:· It was stated
18· ·that the Eclipse Sound stock has appeared to decrease
19· ·between 2004 and 2013 prior to shipping, although this
20· ·change was not shown to be statistically significant.
21· · · · Could you indicate if you or any other party have
22· ·analyzed whether the aerial estimate from 2004 of
23· ·20,225 animals with a CV of 36 percent is significantly
24· ·different from the aerial estimate survey of 2019,
25· ·which is 9,000 animals approximately with a
26· ·co-efficient of variation of 5 percent.· Thank you.
·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·2· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·3· ·Thank you.· I'll ask Phil Rouget to respond.
·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Phil Rouget.
·5· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
·6· ·Phil Rouget, Golder Associates for Baffinland.
·7· · · · We have -- we have compared our 2019 results to
·8· ·the 2016 results thus far.· That's based on feedback
·9· ·from Fisheries and Oceans that that's the most reliable
10· ·estimate to be used moving forward.· We recognize the
11· ·high -- basically the high degree of variability or the
12· ·low accuracy with some of these earlier estimates, and
13· ·so we're challenged with the functionality of using
14· ·those as effective baselines because we don't really
15· ·know where those numbers are.· This is an ongoing
16· ·discussion with members of the marine environmental
17· ·working group.· To assist in that discussion, we have
18· ·provided a power analysis based on our 2019 data, and
19· ·we will be presenting on our 2020 data shortly, which
20· ·will include a power analysis as well where that will
21· ·be discussed further.· Thank you.
22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
23· ·Incorporated, David Lee.
24· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair, and
25· ·thank you, Phil, for that response.
26· · · · I'm going to move on to the next slide, Slide 55,
·1· ·"Recorded Harvest Data".· I have a few questions here
·2· ·only to make sure that our understanding is consistent
·3· ·with each other.· Prior to 1999, quotas were
·4· ·established by the Government of Canada based on
·5· ·historic local catch records, which you've labelled in
·6· ·the white boxes, and that was established at 100.
·7· ·Those are not based on any biological value of the care
·8· ·and capacity of the population or stock.
·9· · · · Is it also your understanding that the increase
10· ·you've noted since 2013 actually reflects the
11· ·implementation of the Nunavut Agreement in which a
12· ·total allowable harvest that is based on the stock size
13· ·was required and implemented through a Nunavut wildlife
14· ·management board decision and an integrated fisheries
15· ·management plan?· Thank you.
16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
17· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
18· · · · I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond.· Thank you.
19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
20· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
21· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
22· · · · So just noting the point made by the intervenor,
23· ·that is why that graph has the allocated tags outlined
24· ·on it to show harvesting not just in its absolute
25· ·levels, but also in relation to the tags available each
26· ·year.· So this slide is also just meant to complement
·1· ·what was shown on the previous slide and expand the
·2· ·available data set that we have around not just narwhal
·3· ·abundance in the area, but to also demonstrate what's
·4· ·been recorded in terms of harvesting.
·5· · · · Moving forward, we think this type of data will be
·6· ·helpful in our monitoring programs, especially as we
·7· ·move into having the formalized culture, resource, and
·8· ·land-use monitoring program running parallel with our
·9· ·environmental monitoring programs.· Thank you.
10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
11· ·Incorporated, David Lee.
12· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
13· · · · David Lee for Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated.· And
14· ·thank you, Lou, for that response.
15· · · · Another -- I think our understanding is consistent
16· ·and just to clarify the figure so that it isn't
17· ·misinterpreted.· The red line was shown to be not the
18· ·TH, but the allocation, and I just would like
19· ·Baffinland to confirm that they are aware that the
20· ·allocation has been increasing since 2013 and
21· ·significantly as a result of a carryover system
22· ·implemented through the fisheries management plan and
23· ·the Nunavut wildlife management board.
24· · · · So, in fact, one of the reasons for the increase
25· ·in the red line is due to the amount of narwhal that
26· ·are being carried over from previous years that have
·1· ·not been harvested by the community.· Thank you.
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·3· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·4· · · · Yes.· We acknowledge that that is why the red line
·5· ·is increasing on that slide, but isn't -- isn't the
·6· ·purpose of why we were showing this graph.
·7· · · · Instead, we were using this to demonstrate
·8· ·harvesting data from the local community and that this
·9· ·has remained relatively stable over the last number of
10· ·years.· Thank you.
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
12· ·Incorporated, David Lee.
13· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· David
14· ·Lee for Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, and thank you,
15· ·Megan, for your response.
16· · · · Yes.· This -- I think we have a common
17· ·understanding that this was to demonstrate that
18· ·harvesting is continuing by Inuit in Pond Inlet.
19· ·However, the -- as was noted, the harvest levels are
20· ·fluctuating dramatically since 2015.· My next question
21· ·related to that is:· Is Baffinland aware that DFO
22· ·science in 2020 has recommended that the total
23· ·allowable landed catch for the Eclipse Sound stock be
24· ·reduced from 230 to approximately 117?· Thank you.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
26· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·1· · · · Madam Chair, I believe this is something for
·2· ·Fisheries and Oceans to speak to more appropriately.
·3· ·However, we are aware that a similar recommendation was
·4· ·made in 2016 that was ultimately deferred.· Thank you.
·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
·6· ·Incorporated, David Lee.
·7· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·8· · · · David Lee for Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated.
·9· ·Thank you for that response.· I agree.· So I will defer
10· ·that question to Fisheries and Oceans.
11· · · · And one follow-up correction, it is not 230.
12· ·It's, in fact, 242.
13· · · · Moving on to my next question.· This relates to
14· ·acoustics.· Could you please describe some of the
15· ·uncertainty that is associated with a lack of an
16· ·empirically-based hearing threshold for narwhal, that
17· ·is, an audiogram?· For example, how would differences
18· ·of a few decibels in hearing threshold affect the
19· ·predictions in the models such as masking and
20· ·communication of narwhal in terms of listening space as
21· ·you had eloquently described previously?· Thank you.
22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
23· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
24· · · · I'll ask Melanie Austin to respond.· Thank you.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Melanie Austin.
26· ·MS. AUSTIN:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
·1· ·Melanie Austin from JASCO for Baffinland.
·2· · · · The question is around the hearing threshold for
·3· ·narwhal and uncertainty around that.· Hearing threshold
·4· ·information, also referred to as audiogram information,
·5· ·is collected experimentally normally from -- it's not
·6· ·captured, but animals that are available to be tested
·7· ·in an aquarium.· So there are no tests specifically on
·8· ·narwhal.· There has been testing done on beluga, which
·9· ·would be the most similar representative species.
10· · · · Within the same hearing group of mid-frequency
11· ·cetaceans, it would include animals like killer whales
12· ·that have also been tested for their hearing
13· ·thresholds.· So we estimate what we think narwhal
14· ·hearing thresholds are, based on these other animals.
15· · · · In the calculations of listening range reduction,
16· ·we compare the vessel noise either to the background
17· ·noise in the water or to the hearing threshold for the
18· ·animal, whichever of those two numbers is the highest.
19· · · · In JASCO's analysis, we compare vessel noise to a
20· ·representative hearing threshold from multiple
21· ·measurements of multiple different types of
22· ·mid-frequency cetaceans.· We believe this is the most
23· ·representative comparison for narwhal, and provides the
24· ·most conservative estimation of the listening range
25· ·reduction.
26· · · · By comparison, the analysis provided by Scripps
·1· ·Institute of Oceanography considers the hearing
·2· ·threshold only for beluga, but this is based on a very
·3· ·small sample of animals and results in a lower
·4· ·threshold that is -- we don't believe as representative
·5· ·of what we expect for narwhal.
·6· · · · We do have some additional slides prepared that
·7· ·show an image of an audiogram if that would be
·8· ·instructive at this point.· Thank you.
·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
10· ·Incorporated, David Lee.
11· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair, and
12· ·David Lee for Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, and thank
13· ·you, Melanie, for your response.
14· · · · Not to belabour the point or repeat my question --
15· ·perhaps I can rephrase it.· I understand you've used
16· ·the best modelling available and standard models for
17· ·the modelling exercise.· I was curious how you captured
18· ·the uncertainty of not having an audiogram for
19· ·species --
20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·David Lee, if you can please
21· ·slow down for the interpreters.
22· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·My apologies.
23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Oh, you're cutting off a
24· ·little bit.· You're cutting off a little bit.· If you
25· ·could just back up.
26· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·1· · · · If I can just rephrase or follow up, I would like
·2· ·to know or could you please describe the uncertainty
·3· ·associated with not having an audiogram for narwhal,
·4· ·which you've already mentioned is usually captured in
·5· ·an experimental situation, given that the two species
·6· ·diverged about five to six million years ago and
·7· ·narwhal occupy an environment that may overlap with
·8· ·beluga in some areas, but is certainly different in
·9· ·others.· Thank you.
10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
11· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
12· · · · I'll ask Melanie Austin to provide the response.
13· ·Thank you.
14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Melanie Austin.
15· ·MS. AUSTIN:· · · · · · · Thank you.· Melanie Austin
16· ·from JASCO for Baffinland.
17· · · · A couple of things to note.· One is that Beluga
18· ·and narwhal belong to the same family of animals.· We
19· ·expect they have similar physiology, morphology, ear
20· ·structures, and similar hearing ranges due to their
21· ·close evolutionary relationship.· Their vocalizations
22· ·also occur in similar frequency bands.
23· · · · As mentioned, to address this uncertainty in the
24· ·modelling, we make conservative assumptions where we
25· ·have uncertainties, but ultimately these calculations
26· ·of listening range reduction are to help provide a
·1· ·better understanding of the potential for masking, but
·2· ·these details do not change our effects assessment as
·3· ·masking is assessed qualitatively because of this
·4· ·uncertainty.
·5· · · · Additionally, there are no current thresholds to
·6· ·understand where the listening range reduction becomes
·7· ·biologically significant.· Thank you.
·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik
·9· ·Incorporated, David Lee.
10· ·MR. LEE:· · · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
11· · · · David Lee for Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, and
12· ·thank you, Melanie and Megan, for your responses.
13· ·That's greatly appreciated.· No further questions from
14· ·me.
15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet, Joshua
16· ·Arreak.
17· ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet Questions Baffinland Iron Mines
18· ·Corporation
19· ·MR. ARREAK:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. I
20· ·will have two questions; Moses will have a question;
21· ·Frank Tester also will have a question.
22· · · · Just to mention, I (NO ENGLISH FEED) a commitment,
23· ·and leaving tomorrow, and I'm sure our deputy mayor,
24· ·Moses, will represent the hamlet, and we had delegated
25· ·another person, but he's been sick over a week, and I
26· ·hope that he'll get better. (INUKTITUT SPOKEN - NO
·1· ·TRANSLATION)
·2· ·THE INTERPRETER:· · · · ·Sorry.
·3· ·MR. ARREAK:· · · · · · · In 24 -- I hoped that he would
·4· ·get better.· I may be leaving tomorrow.
·5· · · · Perhaps in Slide 24 that we're talking about, it's
·6· ·talking about warming or a change in temperature or
·7· ·salinity -- change in salinity, so maybe people don't
·8· ·really consider if there's not -- not much salt, but
·9· ·there's a concern because we have -- these are our
10· ·wildlife.· Our seals are our food, so when they are not
11· ·in salt water, they tend to sink easily.· Less salt,
12· ·they sink easily more, and sometimes we lose them
13· ·because they sink.· If we shoot them, if they're not in
14· ·salt water, and they cannot be replaced.· Perhaps they
15· ·should be replaced if -- not having enough salt also
16· ·changes the ice.· The ice conditions change because
17· ·there is less salt in the ice, and it breaks easily.
18· ·So because of climate change and the salinity in the
19· ·ocean, does that -- are you -- is it known that these
20· ·things are the result of climate change?· That's my
21· ·first question.
22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
23· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
24· · · · I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond.· Thank you.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans.
26· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland.
·1· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
·2· · · · Thanks for bringing up that question.· I think
·3· ·it's a really important one because we're having a lot
·4· ·of conversations here about a project, but we're
·5· ·talking about a project that's taking place in a
·6· ·dynamic environment where there's a lot happening, and
·7· ·climate change is one of them.· So some of the changes
·8· ·people are seeing are not always related to the
·9· ·project, they're related to larger things that are
10· ·happening that the project is happening within.
11· · · · So the simple answer to your question is, yes, we
12· ·do take that into consideration in our monitoring
13· ·programs and in our modelling that we've done for
14· ·Phase 2.· In our annual reports, you'll often see us
15· ·talk about our monitoring program results, and then
16· ·we'll also include discussions of how these relate to
17· ·climate change.
18· · · · But as far as our project goes and changing the
19· ·salinity of the water around the project, that's why we
20· ·provided the images on Slides 25 and 26 because we want
21· ·to address that concern some people may have and show
22· ·how little ballast water our vessels are releasing
23· ·compared to the area they're releasing it in.· And then
24· ·showing the coffee mug as an example of all of the
25· ·freshwater that's coming in naturally every year from
26· ·the land around it.
·1· · · · And it's also important that all of our vessels
·2· ·conduct ballast water exchanges on their way to Milne
·3· ·Port, and we conduct compliance testing on every vessel
·4· ·that comes to Milne Port to ensure they've done this
·5· ·and to make certain that the salinity in the ballast
·6· ·water tanks matches closely with that of Milne Port.
·7· ·Thank you.
·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet, Joshua
·9· ·Arreak.
10· ·MR. ARREAK:· · · · · · · Thank you, Chairperson.
11· ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet, Joshua Arreak.
12· · · · So in terms of not having enough salt or less
13· ·salinity, so sometimes the ballast water is returned
14· ·when it doesn't have enough salt?· I believe that's
15· ·true.· So when there was a meeting also this fall, it
16· ·was indicated that there are invasive species in the
17· ·area, and there's a concern for us there, that it may
18· ·be touching the wildlife that we have here.· Perhaps
19· ·we're not sure how many years.· For those that -- we
20· ·don't know how many times in the previous years people
21· ·have travelled up here from outside of the Arctic, and
22· ·is it known in terms of invasive species if they are
23· ·increasing?· Where are they coming from?· Are they
24· ·coming from the ballast water?· Are they coming from
25· ·the bottom of the ship?· How are they carried into and
26· ·out?· That's the end of my questions.· I'll turn it
·1· ·over to Moses.
·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Fisheries and Oceans Canada
·3· ·should also take that as a deferred question to them as
·4· ·well.
·5· · · · Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·6· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
·7· · · · I'll ask Marina Winterbottom to provide an answer.
·8· ·Thank you.
·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Marina Winterbottom.
10· ·MS. WINTERBOTTOM:· · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.
11· ·Marina Winterbottom with Golder Associates for
12· ·Baffinland.
13· · · · To answer your question, there are typically two
14· ·main ways invasive species get introduced via shipping.
15· ·One is ballast water and the other is ship hulls.· So
16· ·they're sticking to the bottom or hull of the ship.
17· ·That said, I want to make clear that there has been no
18· ·confirmation of an invasive species at Milne Port to
19· ·date.
20· · · · What we have seen is one species of worm that
21· ·lives in the mud flagged as potentially non-indigenous.
22· · · · I say possibly because marine organisms of the
23· ·Canadian Arctic, especially microscopic ones like worms
24· ·that live in the sediment are poorly described.· There
25· ·are several documented historical occurrences of this
26· ·worm in the Canadian Arctic and Baffin Island dating
·1· ·back to 1970s or '80s, so it may have always lived in
·2· ·Arctic waters and just not been noticed before.
·3· · · · In the last few weeks, our team has sent a
·4· ·specimen of this worm to an expert for further
·5· ·analysis.· Nonetheless, this confirms that our
·6· ·monitoring programs are functioning as intended and
·7· ·will continue under a Phase 2 scenario and, in fact, be
·8· ·expanded to include developing a trigger list and rapid
·9· ·response plans for high-risk species in collaboration
10· ·with DFO.· Thank you, Madam Chair.
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet, Moses
12· ·Koonark.
13· ·MR. KOONARK:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair, from
14· ·the Hamlet of Pond Inlet.
15· · · · On page 13 of the presentation, I want to comment
16· ·about -- like, you see a picture of a narwhal, and I
17· ·will explain a bit about what I've seen.
18· · · · In 1992, the department -- I was working for the
19· ·Department of Fisheries and Oceans as a narwhal
20· ·monitor, and my supervisor was from DFO, and he came
21· ·from Winnipeg, and I had to measure the length of the
22· ·fat and the size of the fluke and the size of the
23· ·narwhal.
24· · · · I used to measure narwhals, and also I used to
25· ·measure the thickness of the blubber and also the
26· ·stomach area.· According to the -- according to the
·1· ·measurements, if the thickness was 5, then that was
·2· ·very healthy, and I had to document them all.
·3· · · · And the guy from Department of Fisheries and
·4· ·Oceans also recorded the measurements as well, so that
·5· ·is how we used to do research on narwhal when they were
·6· ·harvested, and I can say that they are physically
·7· ·different.
·8· · · · And I will also be making an additional comment.
·9· ·Right now I want to ask a question first.· Thank you,
10· ·Madam Chair.
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
12· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
13· · · · May I ask for a clarification on the question. I
14· ·believe I just heard a comment.· I don't know what the
15· ·question was.· Thank you.
16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet.
17· ·MR. KOONARK:· · · · · · ·Madam Chair, thank you.
18· · · · Yes.· I can elaborate on that.· As I mentioned
19· ·earlier, like, it's totally different -- the physical
20· ·appearance of the narwhal are totally different now.
21· ·Narwhals, we noticed the narwhals observed last year,
22· ·like, the blubber was very thin.· It's about -- less
23· ·than 4 inches thick.· The narwhal's blubber was less
24· ·than 4 inches thick, and one can assume that they are
25· ·hungry and also sick in the waters.
26· · · · Baffinland always says they have no significant
·1· ·impact on narwhal, but it's apparent that narwhals are
·2· ·impacted in our waters.· And if the thickness of the
·3· ·blubber is 3 inches, then you include the skin, so the
·4· ·thickness was about 3-and-a-half inches.· So can I get
·5· ·a response, Madam Chair?· Thank you.
·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·7· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.
·8· · · · Thank you for providing that extra context.· I'll
·9· ·ask Phil Rouget to respond to this.· Thank you.
10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Phil Rouget.
11· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Phil
12· ·Rouget, Golder Associates for Baffinland.· Thank you
13· ·for sharing this information.
14· · · · We do acknowledge and we have heard from the
15· ·community that skinny narwhal have been observed and
16· ·reported by different community members over the last
17· ·several years.· It's quite possible that narwhal do
18· ·have less fat reserves and are showing up on the
19· ·summering grounds in poor body condition, and this
20· ·could lead to animals being observed sinking after
21· ·being shot, which is what we've heard from the
22· ·community.
23· · · · Given what we know about narwhal diet and foraging
24· ·behavior, observations of skinnier narwhal are likely
25· ·reflective of what is happening during winter and
26· ·during spring more so than what's happening on their
·1· ·summer calving ground, animals we do believe in the
·2· ·Eclipse Sound area, but the historical data does
·3· ·indicate that animals get the large portion of their
·4· ·food energy during the winter and during the spring on
·5· ·their winter feeding grounds in Baffin Bay and
·6· ·Davis Strait where they prey heavily on Greenland
·7· ·halibut each year.
·8· · · · This area is well documented to be going through a
·9· ·rapidly changing environment due to climate change and
10· ·impacts on sea ice, which, in turn, is predicted to
11· ·have implications on the Arctic food web, including
12· ·Greenland halibut.
13· · · · There is also additional pressure on halibut and
14· ·other fisheries in this area because of expanded
15· ·fisheries in these areas that compete with narwhal food
16· ·prey.
17· · · · A similar thing is occurring with Arctic cod,
18· ·another component of narwhal diet also thought to be
19· ·declining in numbers due to the increased length of the
20· ·open water season tied to climate change.
21· · · · The scientific community does not understand how
22· ·narwhal are coping with this change in foraging
23· ·behaviour and how that might be affecting their
24· ·energetic requirement.
25· · · · As part of Baffinland program, we do not currently
26· ·measure blubber thickness or body condition as an
·1· ·indicator on the project because we do not believe
·2· ·there is a direct pathway between shipping and other
·3· ·project activities and potential for those activities
·4· ·to affect fitness to the level of blubber reduction.
·5· · · · We don't deny there's a possible cumulative effect
·6· ·of shipping along with other stressors on these animals
·7· ·such as those I've explained, but also predation,
·8· ·hunting, and sea ice changes.
·9· · · · We see this being an important indicator for the
10· ·animal as a whole so we can understand what's happening
11· ·to narwhal, but we view this as a regional initiative
12· ·led by the responsible resource manager, in this case
13· ·Fisheries and Oceans, largely because skinnier narwhal
14· ·are likely a source of prey reductions, which is under
15· ·the mandate of Fisheries and Ocean.· Baffinland is
16· ·willing to work with other parties to help solve this
17· ·mystery, and this may be done in a number of different
18· ·manners, which can be discussed with the other parties
19· ·in future.· Thank you.
20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet, Moses
21· ·Koonark.
22· ·MR. KOONARK:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
23· · · · I don't agree with part of the answers, and my
24· ·reason is, like, you -- Slide 59 and 60 and 61 and 62,
25· ·the narwhal you see there apparently are swimming away
26· ·from something.· We, as Inuit, understand that they're
·1· ·apparently swimming away from something.· They appear
·2· ·to be scared, and, therefore, narwhal are swimming away
·3· ·from whatever.
·4· · · · Like, I can say if Phase 2 were to proceed,
·5· ·narwhals -- that more narwhals will be swimming away
·6· ·from -- when there are too many ships traversing
·7· ·through our waters.· Maybe you want to respond to that?
·8· ·To my question, like, the fact that the picture
·9· ·indicates that narwhal is swimming away from something.
10· ·Thank you.
11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
12· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
13· · · · Thank you for pointing that out in regards to the
14· ·photo.· I'm afraid I don't have a good answer for you
15· ·as I don't know where or when that photo was taken, so
16· ·I don't know what it is that the narwhal are
17· ·specifically doing in that photo or would have been
18· ·close to at the time, but perhaps that's something that
19· ·we can look into for future use of this photo.· Thank
20· ·you.
21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet.
22· ·MR. KOONARK:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.
23· · · · Like I mentioned, like, that -- looking at the
24· ·picture, I told the Panel that narwhal are swimming
25· ·away from something.
26· · · · If Phase 2 were to proceed, if you -- like,
·1· ·looking at the condition of the blubber last summer,
·2· ·some of them were about 3 inches thick, and if you're
·3· ·going to increase the number of the ships, then you --
·4· ·the thickness will become 2 and a half.· That is a
·5· ·likely scenario.· So these are dire -- the narwhal
·6· ·would be in a dire situation when a lot of ships will
·7· ·be traversing if Phase 2 were to be approved.· That is
·8· ·all for now, Madam Chair.· Thank you.
·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle.
10· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland.
11· ·Again, thank you for sharing, and I do, I suppose, want
12· ·to add that it's not the first time that we've heard
13· ·around narwhal being skinnier, so we are -- or less
14· ·fat.· So this is something that we are very interested
15· ·in supporting more research on.
16· · · · I think Phil went into some of the more scientific
17· ·reasons why we don't feel that this is a direct cause
18· ·related to shipping.· There may be climate change
19· ·reasons that are changing some of the food source --
20· ·food sources for narwhal in other areas that may be
21· ·causing this to occur, but we would be happy to support
22· ·community -- or Fisheries and Oceans based programming
23· ·to help better understand why this is occurring.· Thank
24· ·you.
25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet, Frank
26· ·Tester.
·1· ·MR. TESTER:· · · · · · · Thank you.· Madam Chair, Frank
·2· ·Tester, technical advisor, Hamlet of Pond Inlet.
·3· · · · Can I ask a quick question?· What time are we
·4· ·adjourning this evening?· I notice we're heading for --
·5· ·I think your time is 9:30.· Am I being heard?
·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Sorry.· We'll rest for tonight
·7· ·at 9:30, so if you wanted to pose your question.
·8· ·MR. TESTER:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Frank
·9· ·Tester, technical advisor, Hamlet of Pond Inlet.
10· · · · I think it fair to say, based on the discussion
11· ·that we've just had -- and I -- I want to thank Moses
12· ·for walking into a topic that the hamlet also feels is
13· ·quite important.· But I think it's fair to say that
14· ·we're in muddy waters.· There is, as Phil has
15· ·acknowledged -- as Baffinland has acknowledged, a lot
16· ·of things that interact -- that are cumulative.· Things
17· ·that we don't know, and sometimes the best that we can
18· ·do is as Phil has done, we can say, Well, we do not
19· ·believe but, of course, it follows from that we also
20· ·don't know.
21· · · · That being the case, it occurs to me that what
22· ·we're talking about really points to the precautionary
23· ·principle that's associated with adaptive management,
24· ·which Baffinland is committed to.
25· · · · So in light of all this, I'm wondering why it is
26· ·that elements related to impact of shipping on marine
·1· ·mammals are given the rating that they are in the
·2· ·environmental impact assessment document?· Would it not
·3· ·be more honest to say that in this case, things are
·4· ·indeterminant?
·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·It is now evening.
·6· · · · (NO ENGLISH FEED) tonight and we'll go to a
·7· ·response from Baffinland to Hamlet of Pond Inlet's
·8· ·question tomorrow morning at 9.
·9· · · · Have a nice evening.
10· ·______________________________________________________
11· ·PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED UNTIL 9:00 AM, JANUARY 30, 2021
12· ·______________________________________________________
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·2· ·CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPT:
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·4· · · · We, Sandra Burns and Andres Vidal, certify that
·5· ·the foregoing pages are a complete and accurate
·6· ·transcript of the proceedings taken down by us in
·7· ·shorthand and transcribed from our shorthand notes to
·8· ·the best of our skill and ability.
·9· · · · Dated at the City of Edmonton, Province of
10· ·Alberta, this 17th day of February 2021.
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14· ·________________________________
15· ·Sandra Burns, CSR(A), RPR, CRR
16· ·Official Court Reporter
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22· ·Andres Vidal, CSR(A)
23· ·Official Court Reporter
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