petroleum industry oral history project transcriptwith her because she was mean to us and spank us,...

Magdalena Grafenauer of 74

PETROLEUM INDUSTRY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEWEE: Magdalena Grafenauer

INTERVIEWER: Maureen Brandstaetter

DATE: May 11, 1987

Tape 1 Side 1 – 27:00

This is a project entitled “Peoples of Southern Alberta.” It is an interview with Mrs. Magdalena

Grafenauer who is my great aunt. The interviewer is Maureen Brandstaetter. It is May 11, 1987. The

interview is taking place at the home of Max and Martina Brandstaetter, which is 28 Vardell Place,

Northwest Calgary, Alberta.

MB: Good morning, Tante.

MG: Good morning.

MB: Tante (which means “aunt” in German), but I do prefer to use Tante because we’ve known each

other for so many years. So we’ll do it that way. Tante, could you please tell me the year that you were

born and the day of your birth?

MG: 1906, thirteenth of July.

MB: July 13, 1926. Sorry, 1906.

MB: And how old are you now?

MG: How old am I now... I am going to be 81.

MB: You are going to be 81 years old.

MG: 81 in July. July the 13th.

MB: What village were you born in in Austria?

MG: I was born in Labientschuch.

MB: And that is a village in the valley of…

MG: Galtür. The village of Galtür, Labientschuch.

MB: Okay, that is in the province of, Galtür is in the province of Carinthia?


MG: Carinthia.

MB: Cantin. We say “Cantin.” Tante, what was your mother’s name and father’s name?

MG: My mother was Mary Magdalena and my father was George.

MB: Tante, what was your last name, your maiden name before you got married?

MG: Magdalena Jenuth.

MB: Magdalena Jenuth, okay. What did your father do?

MG: My father was a big farmer.

MB: Big farmer. I understand that you had a type of hotel or bed and breakfast place. Is that correct?

Did you have a guesthouse as well?

MG: That was my uncle that had a guesthouse. See, my father got… my mom died. In a little while, my

father got remarried to a woman that we couldn’t stand, with her, so my uncle wouldn’t let us to be

with her because she was mean to us and spank us, and my uncle said nobody’s going to spank us.

When my mother died, he’s gonna take the job and he did. So we moved to my uncle and my uncle

brought me up.

MB: Tante, I want to ask you, did you have, like you said, my uncle raised us, all of us up. How many

brothers and sisters did you have?

MG: I had one brother that was with me. And I had three sisters in the States.

MB: Okay, what was your brother’s name, first of all?

MG: Peter.

MB: Peter Jenuth.

MG: Jenuth.

MB: And your three sisters, what were their names?

MG: There was Anna Jenuth.

MB: Anne Jenuth.

MG: And there was Tinny Jenuth, and then there were the oldest one, Mary Jenuth.

MB: Okay, so in the family were you the youngest?

MG: Well, the youngest one died, but I was the youngest one living, yes.


MB: Okay. And who was the oldest? Would that have been your…

MG: My sister Mary.

MB: Mary, okay. Now, I just want to ask you a couple more questions about your family, ??? those kind

of names.

MG: Yes, go ahead.

MB: Without going into any detail, but your husband’s name here in Calgary was…?

MG: John.

MB: John Grafenauer.

MG: John Grafenauer.

MB: Okay, and you have a daughter.

MG: Evelyn Grafenauer.

MB: And she is now Evelyn…

MG: Dragoevich.

MB: Dragoevich. And you have…

MG: A stepson.

MB: And his name is?

MG: Val Moser.

MB: And you have a grandchild.

MG: Yes. Francis Dragoevich.

(0:04:57) MB: Okay. Now Tante, before we get to when you came to Canada, okay, I would like you to

tell me about your life and what it was like growing up in Austria.

MG: Well, I am coming from a rich family, big farmers. My mother died when I was four years old. Then

we stayed home for a while with my dad. He had very good aunt that took care of us and her daughter.

And ??? they were all good to us. And then afterward, my dad got married to a person that she was no,

no good to us. She was mean to us. She spank us. She didn’t give us enough food. So when my uncle

seen that, he took us away. He went to a lawyer and the lawyer gave him the whole credit that my

father didn’t have, that he had it in his hands. He can do what he wants with us.


MB: So after you moved to your uncle’s...

MG: My uncle's.

MB: What was your uncle’s name?

MG: Martin Fischer.

MB: Martin Fischer. Was he married?

MG: Oh yes.

MB: What was her name, your aunt’s name?

MG: Magdalena Fischer.

MB: Magdalena Fischer.

MG: And he has ??? two boys and a sister. But two sons died. One died, and another one died.

MB: So when you moved from your own place in with your uncle, was it you and your brother and your

three sisters that moved in?

MG: No, no. My two sisters, older sisters, when my mom lived in the States, she was married in the

States. Before my mother came to Austria, back, they were farmers in the United States.

MB: Oh, I see.

MG: And then they came back. But my older sister, they left her there. She got married so they couldn’t

take her.

MB: I understand. So your parents, then, your mother and your father, had gone from Austria to the

United States.

MG: To the States, yes.

MB: To Pueblo?

MG: Pueblo, Colorado.

MB: Pueblo, Colorado. Oh I see. Okay. Would that have been after the First World War maybe?

MG: Yes, after the first war. Well, I wasn’t born.

MB: You weren’t born then...

MG: I wasn't born then.


MB: Yes you were, 1906. You were born in 1906.

MG: [inaudible]

MB: Okay, Tante, so we've got that, so what happened was, can you repeat that?

[00:07:55] MG: Yes. My sisters and brother were all, were not all… my older sisters was born in Austria.

And then they went down to the States. Then my two sisters and my brother were born in the States.

Then I came to the Austria...

MB: Then they came back to Austria.

MG: Austria. And that’s where I was born. That’s where I stayed.

MB: And then your oldest sister, or one of your sisters, married in the States, and she...

MG: My oldest sister was married in the States before my mom and dad left.

MB: Oh right. Okay.

MG: My second sister, they were all schooled in the States. They came home. But she got married, then

she went back to the States. Then my third sister went back to the States.

MB: So then when you actually moved in with your uncle after your mother died…

MG: After my mother died, my father got married, and my uncle took me away and I stayed with my

uncle.

MB: Okay, so it was just yourself that moved in with your uncle?

MG: And my brother.

MB: And your brother.

MG: And my sister moved in, too, but she went to my uncle’s wife’s sister because she insist to have her.

She was alone and she was not married, my sister.

MB: So how did that make you feel at that time, that your family was separated and that you were with

your uncle, and your brother was with you but your sister was in another home?

MG: Very sad.

MB: It was hard? Were they good to you, though? Your uncle?

MG: Very good.

MB: Yeah? And what kind of life did they have? What type of work did they do?


MG: My uncle? Oh, he was, very good school, he had all insurance, like house insurance.

MB: Oh he was an insurance salesman?

MG: He was more… he was very well educated. He had a big office. He was the Mayor, the head one

like in the…

MB: The Mayor?

MG: Yeah…

MB: He was on Council?

MG: Yes, he was always, with Council, with this thing, what's going on in this world.

MB: Okay.

MG: It was one of my uncle. The one that took me.

MB: Do you remember the type of things that you did together that you have good memories of?

MG: With my uncle?

MB: Yeah, with that family?

MG: And my auntie?

MB: Yeah.

MG: Oh yes.

MB: What things did you do together?

MG: And with my cousins? Oh we had very good time together. Well, sometimes they were kind of

hard, you know. You felt, ??? mother and dad, and then you had your dad living, and married someone

else that was a mean person. Nobody didn’t like her in the village. She didn’t… so my dad left her.

MB: Oh, I see. Did you…

MG: It was too late for us to go back. We were growing up and we left him and went to different places.

So my dad was in the States.

MB: Oh your dad went... after your father left your…

MG: My mom and dad were in the States.

[pause in tape]


[00:11:23] MB: Okay, Tante. We’ve already established that your parents were in the States.

MG: They were in the States, yes.

MB: And then your mother, they came back to Austria and your mother died.

MG: Died, yes.

MB: Then your father remarried, and your family got separated…

MG: And that meantime, my father remarried, we had a very good aunt, she came right there and took

over.

MB: Okay. That we’ve got established. But then, you mentioned, okay, that your father, alright, when he

remarried this other lady…

MG: Yes.

MB: That he eventually left her.

MG: Yes.

MB: Okay. But he remained in Austria.

MG: He remained in Austria.

MB: Okay. That’s cleared up. Okay, and by that time you were already…

MG: Growing up.

MB: Growing up. So what I want to ask you about then, is your school, okay. Your education. Okay?

MG: Yes.

MB: Can you tell me what school was like when you were growing up?

[00:12:29] MG: Oh, it was, they were good school. I went like what you call, we had six grades, you

know. And I went all through these grades, see? I was brought up with my uncle, ???big hotel, a nice

hotel, and I was very well taken for, they loved me. And I took the job like helping them and everything.

MB: Oh so while you were going to school, you also worked in their…

MG: With my uncle. You know, not heavy jobs but I did, like, go to the houses, like collecting money for

the houses, what was insurance and all that. Then I sit in the post office. We had our own office. And

then we didn’t get anybody in the post office, like people there ??? but in villages you know how it is.

You have to put the mail apart first, I get up and I went to the post office when my uncle couldn’t do it. I

went first down to the City ???, get the mail from the train, bring the mail up to the post office, and then


I stayed there for so long. In the meantime, when you stayed there, you put all the mail apart. And I put

it in the bag, I closed the post office, and I went to the delivery man. Then it was about six or seven

o'clock at night sometimes that I came home. And they knew, they wouldn’t let me go through the bush

by myself, so my brother always came and meet me and was waiting for me so he could walk me at

home. Well I worked quite a few years for Uncle for that. See, I was more like a girl for every... taking

the mail around, standing in the office, go get the mail and then collect insurance for different houses.

And then do the work at home, too, lots of times.

MB: What was the work at home like? Do you mean…

MG: They didn’t let me do any heavy jobs. I did have to go with the people, the working people,

sometimes out in the field. Then we have a horse, you know. I have to go get the mail. See we have to

mail to the other city, bring the mail up there, and then take it to the post office. And at home, I have to

do the… my aunt went with the people. Then I stayed at home and I cooked and then get the meals

ready, in a big basket, put it on my head and take it to where the people are working.

MB: The farmers you mean...

MG: Yes. Because we could not, at that time to the farmers to come home because they had too much

work, they couldn't afford it. So we have to take meal right there and eat.

MB: Oh, so you were a busy lady then.

MG: Oh, yes, I... they used me for everything, for the Post Office sitting for, taking the insurance round

for whatever it was. I was my, I was my uncle's...

MB: So this would have been... you were born in 1906.

MG: 1906.

MB: So then the First World War came along.

MG: Yes.

MB: And what was life like for people in Austria and for you, during the First World War.

MG: For myself, I cannot complain. It was hard times. We didn't have everything what we had, but we

were not hungry. And we didn't have any ??? but we had clean clothes, we were dressed up, my uncle in

that they took very good care of me.

MB: Did any of your family go off to fight in the war?

MG: No, but I had only one brother and one, my brother, he was not very healthy. He had TB. He wasn't

very healthy. He got married, but, and he was short, not very tall.

MB: So he didn't...


MG: Not in my family, In my cousin's, yes. I had them in the war.

MB: But not in your direct family.

MG: Not in my direct family, because I was really more with my cousins than with... my cousins, they

would always call me a sister. They never said who ??? they treated me very, very well, my cousins.

MB: So then after the war ended in 1918, what was life like for people in Austria? Was it, was it hard?

What I should say, was it as bad as it would have been in the world ???

MB: Well at first it was kind of hard, but people were not hungry.

MB: They still weren't hungry.

MG: No, they had enough, the farmers, I don't know the city men was a little harder, I'd say it this way,

??? from the farm, but the city mans, they had a little hard time. But at the same time they were not

hungry. I don't care where they were.

MB: Were you able to, at that time, well your sister was in the States, right? Your two sisters were in the

States? Were you able to write back and forth to them during the war, like during the First World War?

MG: Yes. We did, wrote some. Yes, there was always enough that we are alive.

MB: That's right, that was the main concern, was to know how...

MG: How, and see they had to think that they have to find out because we were, me and my brother,

that they have to, anything happen to us., they have to let them know.

MB: Yes. Now since your sisters, okay, were in the States, okay, and you were brought up and you did so

many things, you know at your uncle's and your aunt's home, and you had six years of education?

MG: Six years schooling. Yes. I went through school what we have. I didn't go to university.

MB: Right, you didn't go to college.

MG: We didn't have time for that and I hoped truly they had, and they felt I didn't need it because

nobody will help to cook and that's what you learned there, farm working, cooking in there and if my

uncle felt to put in this more money, so...

MB: Okay, so then after the war how long was it until you continue to do this kind of things with your

uncle and...

MG: What like for the post office and that? I already did it when I went to school because I did have to

be there after school, you know, and then as I got bigger, and the school was finished, see my uncle had

insurance, health insurance for everybody around, so then I start to help my uncle to do that because I

was the best runner and the first one.


MB: Oh you were, were you a good runner when you were...

MG: Yes, I was the best one, my uncle half of the time didn't believe me that, until I can show him that I

am ??? and I went and got the mail. He said you could not be there. None of that is true. I said, yes it is. I

run down that from the Labientschuch to the hill to Niche.

MB: That's right, Labientschuch is on a hill.

MG: And the hill, you run around it. Just had to run uphill because was all hill. But we had horses too lots

of time, I took the horse in the buggy and I went...

MB: I want to ask you about church, or churchgoing in Austria, I know that you were a very strong

Catholic, and can you tell what church was like and the celebrations, you know, the things that you may

remember the most about certain church celebrations.

MG: Well, there were some celebrations, the same then here but not that, they were more holy one.

They show more the, that God is in the church, you know, people how to say they appreciate that more,

and that was the stronger believe, much stronger believe in God, when people die they die in God, very

easy way. It was a much, if we wouldn't have that church, it will be a very unhappy country in the world.

The people, the church helped him, one died there the next one would turn around and they would

have these prayers and help them, people would be happy, people would be out of their mind after the

parents???

MB: So the church was a very strong institution.

MG: Very very strong.

MB: During the First World War.

MG: Yes.

MB: And you would say that that helped.

MG: That helped, yes.

MB: People the most. I have been to Austria and I remember sometimes in the Spring there seemed to

be so many celebrations the Ascension of Mary...

MG: Yes. Yes.

MB: Can you describe what you remember about some of these celebrations, what they were like?

MG: Yes, some of them were to call Mary, Mother ??? or something, the name that we had a very big

holiday and then we had a mass and the whole schools, most of them, we were dressed up in

white. And going to the church and that day, that was a very big day in our country.

MB: This was in Spring, wasn't it.


MG: Yeah.

MB: I think that is the Ascension of Mary.

MG: Something yes.

MB: And is there singing or is there a procession?

MG: Yes.

MB: How does that work.

MG: Well, the people, the singers went in the front in the processions and the white, with white dresses,

we had white dresses on you know, and the boy says, ??? it was like a parade. And the choir was singing.

MB: And you would walk towards the church.

MG: We walked to church, we came out of the church and we went all around the church round, make a

trip and then we went into the church again.

MB: Also, I understand that Easter is a very, very special time. Can you explain what happens at Easter?

MG: Oh yes. ??? We had the confession and all that, you , to do with the church and then through the

whole, what they called, you know so many weeks, the length throughout our Lent, we did not eat

meat, like meat, but not on Fridays. And we went, whoever could go to the church, we went to church.

MB: Every day.

MG: Well, who could yes, there were people that they get up at six o'clock and went to church and then

they went to work.

MB: Okay. And now I wanted to ask you, you said that throughout Lent, you didn't eat much meat or

especially not on Fridays.

MG: Not on Fridays, and through the week, well we had more soups. And sometimes we had to, you

know, not to eat. And the week before Easter ???

MB: Now I understand that, okay, a big meal on Easter Sunday is ham. But what do they do with the

ham before they eat it. Is there something that...

MG: With the ham, and the sausages, whatever we had and the bread that we baked or whatever we

have, we had a bit basket like that, we put everything in the basket, all what we were eating for Easter

morning, and we took it to the church, took it down, and was a ceremony and the priest blessed all our

food.

MB: Did this happen on Easter Saturday or Good Friday?


MG: No, no, not on Good Friday, Good Friday was just quiet, a very holy man, just go to the church and

people praying. They took the baskets to the church. And then on Sunday early in the morning, Saturday

night. Yes, and then early in the morning on Sunday we opened... holy and it was blessed. And the first,

before we eat anything else we have, you know, we make horseradish. That's our ??? horseradish, you

have to have on Easter, and that's what God did took the worst food and that we all have to eat, doesn't

matter how hard that was, before they gave us anything to eat, we have to have a little horseradish so

that we remember how God, and how he went through Lent.

MB: So horseradish then is a symbol.

MG: Yes horseradish ??? was a special things for what, that eaten, the people they want the people to

eat the same thing just to taste but that was our ??? they wouldn't give us anything else ??? you have a

little horseradish and then you can have the rest of the food, who believed in the Catholic religion.

That is very interesting Tante.

Tape 1, Side 2 – 28:00 minutes

MB: Okay, I’ll remind you of where we stopped, Tante, and that was we were discussing the horseradish

at Easter. And that was the first thing that you had to eat before you could enjoy the ham and whatever.

Are there any other holidays that you have good memories of, or that really stick in your mind?

MG: Yes, it’s one holiday that I like, what they call it, when all the young kids got dressed in white. And

we were all dressed up in white. What they call? Matina.

MB: Okay, that you mentioned before, about the girls in white…

MG: And the boys dressed up in a little something…

MB: But we didn’t mention the name. And the name was Frohleichman, no Frohleichnam, that’s right.

MG: Yeah, but how do they say here?

MB: It happens, okay, it happens…

MG: In Windisch I can tell you…

MB: Speaking of Windisch, that’s another thing that I wanted to ask you. Okay, in the area of Austria

that you come from, was German the first, like the mother tongue?

MG: No.

MB: No. What was the language?

MG: Austrian, Windisch. We usually call Noslavanias, but we call Windisch, that’s what the name was.


MB: So where does this language come from? Because it’s not German, it’s not a high German. There

are German words mixed into it…

MG: It’s what you call Slovania, it’s like the Yugoslav something, but they cannot understand. We have a

special talk that just the Austrian and the…

MB: Dialect.

MG: Windisch dialect.

MB: Okay.

MG: But it’s in writing, you have to write like the Yugoslavs when you write. You can’t write the way we

talk.

MB: Okay, so there’s no written form of Slovanish really.

MG: No. What we talk Windisch, what we call. But Slovanish Yugoslavian, yes, we have. We write. We

had two years in Yugoslavian school, the first two years.

MB: Oh I see, when you were just children?

MG: When we are children.

MB: You have two years?

MG: We have two years. Now they don’t have that.

MB: Oh, okay. So when was it that, do you remember when they brought the German language?

Because if this area of Austria was speaking Windisch… Okay, let’s just leave it at…

MG: But German was always in it. See we did not… they had schools ??? German schools, and as far as I

remember, my time, we have Germans and Windisch. See the first two grades you go into Windisch, and

then you go into the Germans.

MB: Okay. So your mother tongue was Windisch…

MG: Windisch, yes.

MB: But you learned German in school.

MG: Yes. My mother spoke German, too. Everybody speaks German there. Real old persons that didn’t

want to learn, but all… in my time.

MB: Okay, so everybody spoke German, but the mother tongue was Windisch. Alright. So, I just wanted

to mention that because you had said Windisch, so that people understand what that is. Now, okay, so


that holiday – the other one with the girls in the white dresses – that sticks out in your mind. And you

already described it before on the other side of the tape. So that’s okay.

MG: Yeah.

MB: Now Tante, I just wanted to ask you, when you were living with your uncle and you were working

what seems to me to be quite strenuous…

MG: Very.

MB: On a young girl…

MG: Yes.

MB: You were doing a lot of things…

MG: Yes I was.

MB: And it must have been…

MG: I was ??? you know...

MB: Exactly. You had a lot of responsibilities. What did you have in mind for your own life? What did you

want, I mean, I know that you were doing all of these things, but what did you want?

[00:04:26] MG: For my own life, it was I did want to go to the States to see my sisters and to be with

them.

MB: Okay. That was one of the main…

MG: Main thing, yes, that I want to be with my… Well, I had my sister and my brother home yet, my

mother died, and my other sister went back to the States, too.

MB: That’s right.

MG: But I had cousins that they were more like brothers.

MB: Okay. So you said you wanted to go and be with your sisters.

MG: Yes, I did want to go to the States.

MB: Okay, Tante, now, since your father was in the States, okay, and your mother, and they came back

and, granted you were a young child and everything...

MG: Yes, I was born after...


MB: Yes, I know, but when you were old enough to listen to stories, what did your dad tell you about

what life was like in the States?

MG: My dad told me that there’s no better place to go than in the States. They can’t turn up at Canada

because they are all Indians there. But the States, he said, any time I could go, he would…

MB: Okay, now you mentioned, before we realized that the tape wasn’t on here, you said that… I asked

you what your sisters wrote to you about the States. How did they describe what their life was like?

MG: Oh, their life was very… They were all doing very well. They were married there, and they told me

to come. But see, I had to wait till my quota. I couldn’t go. It doesn’t matter what money you have, you

could not go till your time…

MB: Quota came up.

MG: And that took years and years.

MB: Okay. So now we discussed before how Canada really wasn’t a place that people went to.

MG: No. Because the Indians was so wild, they think. Canada was... we are scared. Don’t go there!

MB: Okay, now who told you? Did your sisters… okay, when you said…

MG: My sisters said that only, Lena, we don’t want you to go there. They’re all Indians. What you going

to do there? They were scared that the Indians would do something to us, or that they wouldn't...

MB: Okay. Now you said, since there was this quota system for people to go to the States, some people

from your area of Austria, they started to go to Canada, okay?

MG: Yes.

MB: Now, how did you hear, how did they hear…

MG: From some people, from some boys that were in the group and they were talking and they said

that they gonna… because I want to go to the States, and I couldn’t. And then they were getting ready to

go to Canada. And they said, why don’t you come? But I have to wait for the quota, so I couldn’t go with

the first…

MB: The first group. But okay, you said newspapers. Were these German newspapers that you heard

about Canada?

MG: Oh Germans, yes. But I think came from….

MB: Okay. But in these newspapers, Canada was mentioned?

MG: Canada was mentioned that they’re all Indians.


MB: No, no, no, Tante, no.

MG: Oh, that was after?

MB: Yeah. No. Yeah. You said that your sisters, when they found out that you could not go to the States,

so you decided to go to Canada, they wrote you...

MG: Not to go.

MB: Not to go, because they were afraid for you.

MG: They found that in the States, someplace, the Immigration Officer, someplace there in the States

told that to my sisters.

MB: That Canada was not a good place to go to.

MG: All Indians, not to go there, that’s what they said. It’s all Indians, she’s going to the Indians.

[00:08:33] MB: Okay. Now you mentioned that, at the time, okay, your sisters were writing, please

don’t go to Canada.

MG: Yes.

MB: But obviously, you were hearing some positive things…

MG: See, I had a card already paid to go to the States. But I have to wait till my quota and I waited for

two, three years and I still didn’t have it. So when I found, I sent the money back.

MB: Oh, you sent the money back…

MG: The quota back, the tickets back. I didn’t have them.

MB: So now, Tante, but I just want to ask you, you mentioned that people went from your area in

Austria, they had already gone to Canada. And you heard good things about Canada.

MG: Good things, yes.

MB: Okay. So what your sisters wrote you, didn’t really affect you.

MG: No, didn’t, because people were there and wrote ??? then my sisters.

MB: Or they wrote to people, not directly to you, but they wrote to people that you knew…

MG: Oh yes, those friends.

MB: Okay, so that’s how you heard that, well Canada is not that bad of a place.


MG: No.

[00:09:43] MB: Okay. So now, something else that came up while we were talking but that didn’t get

onto the tape, was that, the 1920s really more people wanted to go into the States, right? But Canada

was a new place. It just started…

MG: Canada was an Indian place. They said they’re all Indians in there.

MB: Yeah. But that was when they started to let German-speaking people, and you said that you didn’t

really like the fact that Austrians were included with people from Germany. Can you explain again, so

that we have…

MG: Well, because it’s a different thing. Like sure, we speak all Austrian German, but Austrian and

Germans if I will be honest, the way it was, they was never close friends. They never had a close feeling.

So this ways, as we were growing up, we seen that, you know, you lose… the same way it was.

MB: So what do you think, what makes an Austrian different?

MG: Because they are more planner, because German always thought, I am smarter than you are! And

Austrians were almost all nice people, ordinary people more, smart people, but they didn’t show their

smartness. They never fight with them. I’m better than you are. But the Germans did. And they came

right, right plain out…

MB: And said this is the way it is. Yeah. Okay, so that’s sometimes then why Austrians, if somebody says

to an Austrian, okay, you’re German, and an Austrian will say, he throw his hands ups and he'll say, no,

I’m an Austrian!

MG: I’m an Austrian, yeah.

MB: And the same thing goes… So that’s why you think that there’s…

MG: That’s the way… ??? if I see them now, they said, we’re better, well, I said, I don’t think they are

any better. But they thought that they were better, all the Austrians were dumb and the Germans were

the smartest one. And that came on all over in school.

MB: So even when you were a young girl, even at the time when it was a good thing for people to leave,

there still was Austrians and Germans distinguishing themselves from one another.

MG: Oh yes.

MB: Yeah.

MG: And even now, yet.

MB: Even now.


MG: Every Austrian says he wants to be an Austrian, see. They don’t like it if you say, you speak

German, yes. You speak all German like the Germans. When before time, you know who was Austrian

and who was German because the language. Even in Vienna, in Germany was different. Was more, I

don’t know, different but not such a high German…

MB: The dialects were different.

MG: Yup.

MB: Okay, so Tante, just to get back now to, okay, we’ve got this established that…

MG: That’s fine. Just ask anything you want.

MB: Okay. We’ve already got everything established that, you know, you said okay, I can’t wait anymore

and I ‘m going to go to Canada because other people think it’s good, and whatever. I just want to ask

you, you mentioned the fact that there were people in Austria at that time that kind of collected people

and said, you can go to Canada, right?

MG: Oh yes, like myself, I did want to go because I had a stepmother… but and I have sisters, and I

couldn’t go to the States.

MB: I know, Tante, I know. But I just want you to explain to me, like you told me before, about these

people who were saying, yeah, Canada is a good place to go to. And they were in Villach, they had

offices.

MG: Offices in Villach, yeah.

MB: Okay. And you called them immigration…

MG: Immigration. Immigration comes to the one that were working there. Well they said it’s good to

consider, really ??? but they said, well, they’re all taking the change and the one that they took the

change and went, that’s the one that sent the message back…

MB: That things were alright.

MG: It was good there. No better place than there.

MB: Now were these immigration, people that worked in these different companies or had their offices,

were they people from Austria?

MG: Most of them, yes.

MB: Okay. So that’s where you went.

MG: That’s where I went yes.

MB: Now Villach is…


MG: Not far away from Austria.

MB: From where you are, it’s about an hour’s drive.

MG: An hour, yeah.

MB: Okay. So now, how much money, okay once they said… Oh, this is what we have to include, sorry, I

forgot about that. You said that in order for you to leave, you had to have your father sign a piece of

paper.

MG: Father signs, yes. And I did have to, see my mother died, and then there was only my father. But my

uncle brought me up. So I had to have the sign from my father if he lets me go, and from my uncle.

MB: Uncle. Alright. And the age where you didn’t need a signature any more?

MG: 21.

MB: 21. Okay. But did they sign this anyways when you were…

MG: Yes, they did sign.

MB: Even though you were of age to do what you wanted?

MG: Well, yes. I was a little of age, but before I went, I was 21.

[00:15:42] MB: Okay. So how did your father feel about you going… I know it wasn’t a safe country, and I

know you wanted to go to the States…

MG: Yes.

MB: But how did he feel about you leaving Austria to go to Canada?

MG: Well, my father ??? was, he loves me so much and he hates to see me… [silence; tears?]

MB: So it was very hard for him, then?

MG: But he said he can’t keep me back because he knows it’s better there.

MB: The life is better in America. And your sisters felt, too that life was better in…

MG: Well, my sisters was, they didn’t want me to go to Canada because they said they’re all Indians and

they’re going to… they were scared.

MB: They were scared for your safety.

MG: For my safety. And still I couldn’t go to the States. I would still have to wait. So somebody else

went, and I suppose my sister went all round there to every immigration thing to find out if…


MB: If she could get you over…

MG: Yeah, and if I can't ??? she asked them to go to Canada, she ask all that, and then they explained

her that there are English speaking, there are Indian people but they are not all over, there are English

speaking, it’s just like in the States.

MB: Like people came from England and settled…

MG: And then they understood. But they still wasn’t safe until I didn’t write them where I was, and the

people who I was and I was living with German people.

MB: Okay, now Tante, I asked you before about how much it cost you, okay, to go, and that’s when you

started to explain to me that you had saved money because your sisters…

MG: I saved money and I got the money. See, I come from a big family and I got the money from the

farm that they give me the money of some. And then some money I borrow and sent back.

MB: Okay, and you were explaining that the system also, in Europe, that the oldest, or whatever gets the

farm. Can you explain that again, that you should have, the farm would have been yours but, can you

explain that again?

MG: No. My farm, the one that we had, we had a big farm and we were four sisters, and three of them

were in the States, so it was only me and my brother. Now in my country, if you did right, it’s the

brother gets the farm. But my brother has been sick most the time, he has TB and he was always sick. So

they want me to take the farm. But then my brother found a lady there that used to work at our place

for a maid for many, many years, and she was quite a bit older. But he married her. She was pushy and

??? but she was one of the nicest, kindest persons that you can find.

MB: So you didn’t want to take the farm. You said your brother should have it.

MG: No I didn’t want to take the farm. No. I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t live that I would take the farm. My

conscience would bothering.

MB: So the thing is that though, the system is this way, that whoever takes over the farm has to pay out

his other brothers and sisters, right?

MG: Yes, if you…

MB: So I know that you did not want your brother to pay you out, but your brother did give you some

money.

MG: Give me something, a little, yes, more that I... and my sisters didn’t...

MB: Take any.

MG: Take any, because my stepmother’s finished nearly him anyway.


MB: Okay, so…

MG: And I sent it really back whatever I… owed him that back.

MB: Alright. So now, you had enough money saved, and then you got some money from your brother,

or you borrowed it because you didn’t want to take it from him. So it was more of a loan.

MG: More of a loan, yes.

MB: Okay. And so, how did you… when you were going, okay, to Canada, was there anybody else in the

village that went with you, that left at the same time?

MG: Yes.

MB: Okay. Can you tell me about who…

MG: Oh, we were quite a few. We were about 20 of us together.

MB: Oh really?!

MG: Sure. They was not all from our Austria, from Villach, but from different, you know, but that was

like one boat, you know that they can just take so many.

MB: Yes, exactly.

MG: And that’s as many as we were. Because see, I was not one of the first one. I was a little behind the

first ones.

MB: The first ones that went over to Canada?

MG: Yes.

MB: Yeah. So in your group, like from different areas of …

MG: All little villages there, like some from ???, some from ???, some from Modea, and then some they

were from Hermagon, some from Villach, you know. They went on, filled the plane, boat, not the plane.

MB: The boat, the ship. Okay, so who were some of these… I know you maybe can’t remember names,

but who were these people? Were they young, were they...

MG: Ones that they went?

MB: Yeah, the ones that went with you.

MG: Yes, they were about all my age or a little older, cause I was just 21. See, you couldn’t go before 21,

and I just went 21 and I was on the way. Most of them was older.


MB: In their late twenties, do you think?

MG: Well, they were 21, 22 or so. 21, 22, 23. Around the same age, just a few years.

MB: Yeah. What was the feeling when there was twenty of you going, and how did you... what kind of

things did you expect in Canada? Like, what did you talk about when you were all together, saying, oh,

we’re going to Canada.

MG: Well, we were a little scared. We were a little scared because we still, they wrote some of the ???

for us, and they wrote us, you know, a little bit what it is. And some of them they want to come back,

you know, you don’t speak English or anything. We were a little bit afraid about the Indians.

MB: Oh, still that was in the back of your mind, eh?

MG: A little bit, yes. But I thought, what can I do? I have my sisters in the States and they’ll know where I

am, and if any happens, I know the one will just go on and come get me.

MB: So you really didn’t know what to expect.

MG: No. But then, when the first people went there, the parents got some…

MB: Letters.

MG: Letters, and I was, most of them that went were the first ones.

MB: Okay. So now these twenty people, were there married couples that went along with you, like these

twenty people? Or was it all single people, do you think?

MG: Well, there were some married ones that they left their wives home, you know.

MB: Oh, they left their wives in Austria?

MG: Yeah. Yeah. They went on their own first. But most of them were single like. But we were only three

girls.

MB: Only three women?

MG: Three womans with the whole group of men, because Mrs. Schmidt, you know her. And there was

another lady, you wouldn’t know her. She come from...

MB: Another village.

MG: Oh yeah. ??? three of us. And there was my cousin. That’s how I went to, now, I forget. My cousin

John Fischer in Niche. See he went the same time that I did. And then we were together for a long time

but he’s back home now, married there I think. We went together in a place what you call Hodgeville.

MB: Hodgeville. Yeah. Okay.


MG: Yeah. Just a little farm town.

MB: Okay, Tante, before we jump ahead here, I still want to ask you, you know these men that you went

with in this group of twenty, they left, some of them were married, and they left their wives in Austria.

Now, was it their intention to make money and bring their wife over? Or was it their intention to make

money and go back to Austria?

MG: First it was more intention to make money and go back. But then when they were here, the

intention changed, that they want their wives over here.

MB: Okay. That’s very important to establish, you know, what it was that they were going…

MG: They were scared, see, we were scared because they thought, they didn’t know what it was. We

took a chance.

MB: Okay, so was your intention to go to Canada and then get to the States?

MG: Yes. I thought, I’m just going to come to Canada and then I’ll just go over to the States.

MB: Did they say to you at the immigration office that you went to in Villach, that that was the best way

to get into the States?

MG: Well, they said, they didn’t assure me.

MB: Yes, they didn’t say 100%.

MG: No, no. But they said they think that I will be able to get through, you know, after when I get there.

(0:25:32) MB: That that was an easier route to get there. Okay. Alright. Okay now let’s get back to your

cousin, John Fischer.

MG: Yeah.

MB: Sorry, was his name John Fischer?

MG: John Fischer, yeah, my cousin.

MB: Now, he wanted to come to Canada, too.

MG: He was, he came to Canada with me.

MB: With you. So you travelled on the same…

MG: We travelled together.

MB: Alright, so can you describe leaving from Austria, where you had to go in order to get on the ship?

Where did you go?


MG: Ah, what they call it?

MB: Was it in Germany?

MG: We went to Vienna. There was some place in Yugoslavia.

MB: Oh really.

MG: I don’t think we had the trip from Germany. Was it? Or did we went from…

MB: You could have left from the sea there, from the port there.

MG: I know I have my card someplace at home that it is all writed down, you know.

MB: Oh really?

MG: I’m sure it’s at ???

MB: Okay. But that's... alright. So you got on to a ship…that's okay...

MG: Yeah, I think it’s in Gladvoot ??? or Vienna that we went on the boat. Someplace there, or ??? Well

the first boat was in Italy, very first boat was in Italy.

MB: It would have been Italy or Yugoslavia, yeah, because you couldn’t leave from ??? There’s no…

MG: Not from Vienna either.

MB: You couldn’t leave from either. No. So it would have been from Italy or Yugoslavia.

MG: I think it was Yugoslavia. I don’t think it was Italy.

MB: Okay. Now this boat, you said there were about 20 of you in all from this area. How many people

were on this ship?

MG: Oh, there must be quite a bit, how many people does it take, that big boat? It was a big boat. It

must be hundreds. it was a big ship, yes.

Tape 2 Side 1 – 27:00

MG: It wasn’t easy to come here to Canada, you know. You had to first the doctors that you are really

healthy and well, that you don’t have any bad…

MB: Diseases…

MG: Or any bad, behind you, you know, or anything and you have to be healthy from all different

doctors.


MB: Oh, that’s what you had mentioned before, when the tape wasn’t on. But you did say something

that when you did go to these immigration people, that they said that Canada wanted what type of

people?

MG: Good, honest people Canada wants. Good working people. Because they ask me if I’m willing to do

the work, if I’m willing to take any kind of jobs. So I said, yes, I’m a farmer’s daughter and I can take any

kind of job. And so when I came there, they were waiting for me, a family, of seven children.

MB: Okay, now just before we get ahead of ourselves, Tante, we still have to finish… So, they were

looking for labourers?

MG: Labourers, yes.

MB: And they were looking for… were they looking for farmers?

MG: Farmers, yes. Farmers and labourers. That’s what they really wanted here. People that they work,

not officers. They had enough there, office people.

MB: Enough bureaucrats or enough professionals.

MG: Yes, professionals.

MB: Okay. So they wanted…

MG: Working people.

MB: Okay. So that’s important that we know what they did ask from you or that they wanted…

MG: Oh yes, working people, yes.

MB: Okay. So, you left with your cousin and you get on this ship. Can you explain what it was like to be

with all these other people that you’re going to Canada...?

MG: Well, it was nice. They were all very friendly, and they were all a little scared. There was only three

of us girls, you see. But one girl, I know her from home, Labientschuch. We were a little scared. We

didn’t know, because my sisters were scared. See, they wasn’t sure of Canada. They said, It’s Indian. And

they were afraid that Indian would do something to me.

[00:02:32] MB: Now Tante, I understand that your sisters were afraid for you and that they had this

image of Canada as a place where there were a lot of Indians, perhaps running around, and that it was a

frightening place to live still. But there were other people that had gone to Canada, slightly, or a couple

of years before you did, and they would write home to their relatives, which would have been your

neighbours. So what were you told about Canada?

MG: What I heard from Canada, it was all good things. They were good to the people, good food, they

treating the people very good. And everybody said, whoever know me, to go to Canada. That Canada

was even better than the States. That’s where I want to go.


MB: Okay. Now Tante, since we‘ve had some problems here mechanically with this tape recorder,

through probably my fault here, but there were a lot of things that we mentioned that didn’t get on to

the tape. And so I am going to try to lead you back to the questions so that you can give us this kind of

information, okay?

MG: Okay.

MB: Now, what I need for you to explain again, okay, is the fact that in the 1920s, a lot of people, okay,

you explained that it was hard to get into the United States.

MG: Yes it was.

MB: Can you explain how that was in Austria at that time?

MG: It was still very hard because you got to be on the quota. And when that came in, they let you, until

then, you couldn’t go there. There was no way that you could go. And then you have to go through a lot,

that you don't have any, that you did something wrong, if you have anything like jail…

MB: If you were a criminal or anything like that, they’d check into it. But there was only a certain

amount of people that they let immigrate from Austria to the States, correct?

MG: Yes.

MB: And how many, just off the top of your head, how many do you think that would have been in a

year?

MG: Oh, let me see it. I don’t think more than ten. Ten to fifteen that time. I don’t think so.

MB: Like a year?

MG: No, no. Oh a year, more than that.

MB: But maybe all together throughout Austria…

MG: All together a year. Oh, I would say a couple of hundred.

MB: Okay. Alright. Now, you said that Germans started to hear, or German-speaking people started to

hear about Canada, okay, because it was difficult and a lot of people did want to go to the States but

they couldn’t. So then, how did you actually hear about – aside from the people that were already over

there – how did you hear about Canada?

MG: How did I hear? I want to go to the States very much.

MB: We know that.

MG: And I was just working and that’s where I heard there something talking about Canada, that the

people are going to Canada.


MB: Oh, where you were working, you heard this?

MG: Yes. And that’s the way I only, that I got it. And then we found a little more, what Canada. Because

first they said it’s all Indians there, you know, ???, you know. But then I found out from people,

different. Then they were people that went there on holidays, and they told me that it is not what

people say here. It’s the same… so…

MB: Okay. Now, you also mentioned that in the newspapers that were from your area or from the main

city that was close to your home town, there was information about Canada?

MG: About Canada. Someone that put it, you know, they were ??? about Canada, ??? they know, it was

Canada.

MB: Oh, people were explaining what Canada was like?

MG: No. Yeah.

MB: There were articles, maybe?

MG: Yeah, little articles. Because, see people were talking there that Canada was just a terrible place,

you know. And then the Americans, and all that, as well. They found out that Canada was the same way

as the States. And then my own sister found out that, my sister before I went to Canada, they went all

around in the States because they were afraid that the Indians are going to take me and they never

going to see me.

MB: Exactly.

MG: And that’s where they found out all different things. And they went from one thing, to the other

one. And make me to wait. Not to go…

MB: Not to go too fast.

MG: Yeah.

MB: Okay. Now also, you mentioned the fact that there were immigration offices in Austria.

MG: Yes there were.

MB: Now what were they trying to do at that time? Where were they trying to send people? To Canada,

or to the United States?

MG: Well, but my time was to Canada, in to United States. But United States had quite a few people

there already. So was a little harder to get… Because I had my numbers on to get to the States to go. So

when my number would come, quota, I would go to the States. But then I would miss Canada because I

still would go to the States because my sisters are there. But my quota didn’t come and it didn’t come.

Years and years. Then I put in to come here, and I got through, so I went. So I sent tickets back to my

sisters.


MB: Oh I see. Because they had, you already had a ticket for you to go to…

MG: Mm-hmm.

MB: Okay. Now.

MG: And they want ??? from here now, too, they did want me.

MB: Exactly.

MG: And it's the same way.

MB: They still wanted you down there.

MG: Not anymore now, I wouldn’t because just one of my sister live… ??? [Muffled]

MB: Okay Tante. Now, when you decided, okay, Canada was the place that you were going to go, alright,

did the immigration agent say anything about your chances to get into the United States at that time?

What did they tell you there?

MG: That I would have to wait the same quota then as when my time comes, they’ll call me.

MB: Okay. If you were in Canada.

MG: If I were in Canada. But it have to be??? a little while in Canada and then I can...

MB: But you’d have to go through the whole procedure…

MG: Yes, because go from Canada to the States the same and then go from Austria to the States.

MB: Okay. But you were still willing to take that chance.

MG: Yes, but now I wouldn’t.

MB: Now you wouldn’t.

MG: No.

MB: Oh, I know. I know you wouldn’t. I know that you...

MG: There’s more family here than there.

MB: Oh right, I understand. But we’re still back… Okay. Now there were a lot of, you mentioned also

earlier and this is something that I think is significant, was that at the time that people were immigrating

from Austria and from Germany, you said you didn’t quite, or a lot of people didn’t like the fact that you

were mixed in. That Austrians were bunched together, for example, with German people.


MG: Yes.

MB: Okay. Can you explain to me again so that we understand why it was that, you know, the

differences that Austrians feel from Germans?

MG: Well, because we had not the kind of names that the Germans had and what was done there.

Austrians are more of a, I don’t know what I would call it, more honest or more straight out. Germans

are just bragging themselves. They remind the other countries it's nothing, it’s just ME and I am the one!

MB: So then are you saying…

MG: We are not like that. Myself that pushes the other one that needs… No! That’s what we are. Try to

help each other. We are Austrians helping each other, ??? Austrian.

MB: So at that time, you found that Austrians were…

MG: Now, I like Germans. Don’t think that I… I didn’t know the Germans before, let’s say it this way.

MB: Yeah. But you’re saying that at that time, when different countries were looking on Germany and

Austria and bunching them all together…

MG: Yes.

MB: You were saying that there was a difference.

MG: It was a difference because with something in the war, and that the German did it, the others didn’t

like them too much. But why should they mix in us in Austria because no Austrian… Well I said, Were

there any Austrians there? ??? [almost whispered…] German ??? Someone can’t deny it. They did a lot

of things that wasn’t right.

MB: So would you say that, okay, if I’m right – correct me if I’m wrong – but what you’re trying to say

then is that Austrians perhaps have a more simple way of life…

MG: Simple way. More honesty, just talk and see what I am and what I am. They are what they are.

MB: They are. Okay, they don’t pretend…

MG: They don’t pretend, no.

MB: Something that they’re not.

MG: No. They are what they are.

[00:12:51] MB: Okay. Now, also I just wanted to get back to this point about the fact that you didn’t

leave Austria totally on your own, did you? I mean it wasn’t just you from…

MG: Oh no, no, no, no.


MB: Can you explain that?

MG: We were about twenty. They were from ??? everywhere. Sometimes there was only one person…

MB: From that region.

MG: Yes, but when I went, I know people that they went the same time. I wasn’t alone. There were two

girls, Berta Schmidt, you know. And then another one was Anna. Quite a few.

MB: Is Mrs. Berta Schmidt still alive?

MG: Yes. Berta Schmidt’s mother was more like cousin to my father. We still lived far away.

MB: You are distantly related. Then that means that there were three women, including yourself, and

your cousin, also. Your cousin, what was his name? John Fischer?

MG: Uh, John Fischer, yeah.

MB: Okay, so he was from the same area as you.

MG: Yeah, from ??? Fischer, my cousin.

MB: Okay. Now I wanted to ask you, at the time that everybody had the idea of, okay, let's go to Canada,

were these young men that went along, they were around your age, weren’t they?

MG: Yes, they were around my age, some were maybe a little younger, some of them were older. But

around my age, not much younger because I was quite young when I left.

MB: Now you had said that they did not take their wives along.

MG: The one that they were married...

MB: So what was their intent then? Was their intent…

MG: Their intent that they’re going to go to there, and as soon as they are going to go there and work

and make some money, they are going to get their wives.

MB: Okay, but I thought also that some of them were going to make money…

MG: And go home, yes. There was some of them too, yes. You’re right.

MB: Okay. So we know that…

MG: And what was it? What was it with these men? What do you think that happened to so many of

them?

MB: I don’t know? What did happen to them?


MG: They came there and left their wives there. Lots of them.

MB: They stayed here?

MG: Sure, lots of them.

MB: And never…

MG: Never tried to get their wives here. Two or three of them that I know them, I told them they were

crooked. I told them straight.

MB: So now, what would you say, I think I should just say that your intent, then, was to get to Canada,

so that you could go to the States.

MG: Yes.

MB: Okay. What was your cousin, John Fischer’s intention when he came to Canada? What did he want?

MG: He just want to get away from there, I don’t know why. And he was a tailor so…

MB: When he went to Canada, did he want to stay there? Or did he just want to make money and come

back to Austria?

MG: He didn’t know it, really. Which one it was. If he likes it, I thought he would stay there. But if he

doesn’t, he’s gonna go back home. So he did not like it.

MB: So he had mixed feelings?

MG: He never had a good ??? or something, and he didn’t make enough or…

MB: Okay. So, then…

MG: He stayed here quite a bit, but he did not… he didn’t got a girlfriend that he want to marry.

MB: To start a family here. Okay, so then basically there were a lot of people that were, as you said, you

were taking a risk.

MG: Yes, I was taking a risk because I felt not too much can happen to me because my sisters, quite a

few relatives, in the States. And if I get lost, they will be looking for me, and they will find out ???

[muffled] that they would so I was quite safe. And my sister, always when I left home, she was asking

where we were going and that she know where we are and what’s happened. She was pretty smart. She

knew, she wouldn’t just let me go. Because then in the States they say that they are going to where the

Indians are and ???

MB: Exactly. Okay now Tante, before we get you on to the big boat and everything else, I wanted to ask

you how did you get the money? What ways did you save the money so that you could make that trip on

the boat to Canada?


MG: I got some money. We were big farmers and big home, and they give me some money. My nephew,

like ??? And then I have some put together, my sisters always sent me money, always. And I always put

it together. Between altogether I had… And then my uncle and aunt gave me some money and I saved

that. And then I have enough to come here. And as soon I come here, soon I went, they were already,

she spoke German, the lady. They already pick me up right there. So I was working.

MB: Okay. We’ll get to that when we get there, okay? Just so we don’t jump ahead of ourselves. Okay.

So I’d also like you to explain that the systems that still exist in Austria today, when there is a farm or

there is a house, alright, and the eldest son usually gets the house. And then he has to pay out the other

brothers and sisters. Can you explain what the situation was like for your family and how it turned out?

MG: Well, for my family it turned out very well. My sisters were in the States and they have all their

money. And the house, we all know was a lot in the debt, our stepmother make a lot in the debt. So

none of us really didn’t want very much from the house. So he didn’t have very much to pay. He gave

me a little bit when I come here to Canada, just to pay me the fare.

MB: So your brother, actually the money that your brother gave you, okay, would have been something

to the same idea that you would have gotten money from the house.

MG: Yes. And the money it’s still, he give me not very much you know, and I have given him a lot back,

too. But when I was home, my nephew from my brother, the first thing it was, they know that I give it to

him and I don’t want it, the first thing it was, Tante, do you need anything? Tante, do you need any

money? I said, no! I don’t need it! He said, are you sure you don’t need it? He want to just, I don’t know,

give me the house back or what? I said, no I don’t... I have to get kind of mad at him. I said, If I would

need it, I’m gonna ask you!

MB: So in other words, you had enough money, then, to go to Canada.

MG: Yes, I did.

MB: Now Tante, where did you and your cousin and these other people that were ready to go to

Canada, you either went through Italy or Yugoslavia, didn’t you? Was it Yugoslavia that you left from, on

the ship?

MG: I think it was Yugoslavia.

MB: That would be close to…

MG: Closer to Austria.

MB: To your home town.

MG: Yes, they had a boat that we all went there and we all went through, you know, and find out what

???.

MB: Oh okay, so when, even though you can’t exactly remember, alright, what port you left from or

what city it was, what did they do when you got there?


MG: I bet you Evelyn knows the boat. I know it a long time.

MB: Oh your daughter.

MG: Evelyn knows that. Evelyn knows that, I’m sure it. Because I know it, it just come back maybe.

MB: Well, when it does, that’s okay…

MG: But Evelyn knows it.

MB: Alright. So now Tante…

MG: Because I told her everything when I was still thinking.

MB: Yeah. That’s okay. That’s no problem. I just want you to tell me, when you did go to the port –

forget about what the city was – but when you did go to the port, what was the procedure there? What

did they make you do? Did you have to fill out any papers or?

MG: Oh yes, we had one thing, the papers, but we had to have this papers filled out from Austria,

everything just before we went there. But then they looked through again if it’s anything wrong.

MB: Okay. So…

MG: They was very strict because some people were crooked that they didn’t have ticket that they go

there, you know.

MB: So you had your ticket already,

MG: Oh yes!

MB: You didn’t purchase it at the boat.

MG: No, no. No, no. I had my tickets, and I had the paper signed from those two men, you know how it

was, what they think about me.

MB: Oh yes, you had to have, you mentioned that as well and we didn’t go back to it, that when you left

Austria, or when you filled out papers, if you were not 21 years of age, can you explain that?

MG: Well, they wouldn’t let you go. You got to be 21 because they wouldn’t let them go by themselves

under 21. And I think that was a good idea. But you got to be 21, and I wasn’t 21 so I had to wait for one

month and next I was 21. Then when I was 21, then there was says to me, when or what.

MB: Alright. So who had to sign the paper. Your parents?

MG: My uncle. My parents were dead. My uncle.

MB: Your father didn’t sign it?


MG: No, it was my uncle that signed it. My father wasn’t… Because my uncle, I was always with him. And

I didn’t ask my father, I asked my uncle. If uncle doesn’t let me know, I couldn’t go.

MB: But your father…

MG: Our father…

MB: Your father wasn’t dead though, was he?

MG: No, no. My father said to me when I said, he was in the States, my father for many years, he said,

go on, Lena. Go on. Your life is going to be much better. And if you can, send ??? over there and then

your sisters could take you to the States. Because he said he’s gonna miss me, and I hate to see you go

but I can’t keep you back from the good places.

MB: A better life.

MG: Yeah.

MB: So your father did not sign the paper, then, just your uncle signed this paper.

MG: No, my father, too.

MB: Okay. We were just a little confused there.

MG: No, no, my father, too.

MB: Okay. So your father and your uncle.

MG: And my uncle. Because my father sign it as a father, but my uncle sign it because I was…

MB: He was your guardian.

MG: Yeah.

MB: But they didn’t need to sign it, because you were 21.

MG: No, I don’t think so. No, that was to…

MB: They signed it anyways. Okay. So we're back at the...

MG: How they know me, what kind of girl, you know, yes...

MB: So they kind of had to give you a letter of recommendation or reference.

MG: Oh yes, it’s good to have it, because even if you don’t need it, it’s good to have something in your

purse that if they stop you on the border, that you can show something, and then you can show

something that is very important in their sign up. But you didn’t have to.


MB: Did your cousin have that kind of letter, and some of the other people that were?

MG: Now I don’t know if he had, whether he had it too, John, I can’t tell you. But John Villitch ???, he

just want to come here for a little life, for a little while. But I wanted to come in for sure, in an honest

way, because I wanted to go to the States.

MB: I know. Okay, Tante. So you just had that letter with you just as an insurance.

MG: Yeah. But I was never asked anything on the way here. Very easy.

MB: Now, how many people would you say got on this boat that you…

MG: From my own country? From Austria?

MB: Yeah.

MG: Just from there where we are, you know, the Gailtal , I’m sure we were for twenty.

MB: Exactly. And then on the whole ship, were there Yugoslavians or Italians or who was all on this ship?

German-speaking were they?

MG: Quite a bit German-speaking people. And there were some Yugoslavs and some other ones.

MB: Any Hungarians or anything like that?

MG: There were a couple of them, too, yes. I remember that there was a couple of them, but the most

was Germans on that boat…

MB: German-speaking people?

MG: Uh-huh.

MB: Now, Tante, can you tell me, had you ever been on a ship before?

MG: No, I wasn’t. That was my first ship. I supposed to go to see my sisters, but no, I didn’t. I didn’t go

to the States.

Tape 2 Side 2 – 28:00

MB: Alright, before we get to your actual trip and you can explain what it was like, can you describe to

me or tell me about what you were feeling at the time you left Austria, from the time that you left your

homeland?

MG: Just a sad feeling. The sad feeling that I had, it was when ??? and the others were leaving.

MB: Because you said goodbye? Yeah. And did you ever think that you would come back to Austria? Was

there any doubt in your mind that you would see your homeland again?


MG: Well, I thought that I might come home for a while, but I didn’t had it stay home because I really. I

stay where I am or go to the States. But then when I got married to my husband, I want to stay here and

I loved it. I didn’t want to go to the States anymore.

MB: But what I am saying is, at that point in your life, like some people when they leave their homeland,

they think I’m never going to see it again. Did those kinds of thoughts cross your mind?

MG: No.

MB: You were sure that you would…

MG: That I was here, not that I had very important people anymore there, I did not. My sisters were in

the States. I only had a brother, and my aunt and uncle, how long they’re going to live. And I had my

cousins, Fischers, we were like… But I thought maybe I will. If I get a job and work and make the money…

MB: Yeah, exactly. So now, you left in 1928.

MG: Yeah, 1928.

MB: Okay. So that was… Do you remember what month, what season it was? Was it winter or was it

fall…

MG: I think it was spring, if I’m not wrong. I think in the spring we went.

MB: Okay. That’s fine. So now we’ll get to this trip of yours on the ship. You said that you had never

been on a ship before.

MG: No.

MB: So what was that like for you? What was the experience like for you, being on the ship with 200, or

whatever, amount of immigrants there were?

MG: It was a good experience, but I was scared, the experience with me. I would advise everybody,

whoever goes on this ship, go take swimming lessons and do something like that before they go on the

ship. Everybody should do that. Never go without swimming.

MB: Knowing how to swim.

MG: ??? If anything happened, I just jump off and swim. Well, what did I? I thought, I just could jump up

and go in? Or stay right in the boat and go in there. Because I didn’t know how to swim. Swimming is a

very, very important thing when you go to this boat and traveling round.

MB: So then, some people did know how to swim.

MG: Well, there was some people… I wasn’t the only one.

MB: Oh, I believe that.


MG: But from our place where I come, I think I was the only one that stayed on while they was

swimming.

MB: Now the place that you come from is very mountainous. It is Alps and hills and streams and valleys.

So what did you think about this ocean that you were traveling on? How did you feel about the ocean?

MG: I felt alright, but I didn’t like it too much. I’d rather see the mountains and growing, not… No, that

wasn’t mine… I was glad when I went on the boat, and when I was there once. Thank God that I was ???.

But a lot of people ??? they just loved it.

MB: Was it a fairly smooth trip?

MG: Pretty good. We had a little bumping up. Then I said to myself, Well, here you are! You can’t go.

You gonna die!

MB: You’re either going to sink or whatever.

MG: Yeah but wasn’t really bad.

MB: What were the accommodations like?

MG: Very good. Yeah. And we had very good food. When we came on this boat, we thought, oh boy, we

were like in Austria when they have Easter???

MB: Oh, that big celebration.

MG: Celebration. That way we feel on that boat that we had.

MB: Really?

MG: Yes, we had.

MB: What kind of meals did you have?

MG: Oh, good food. In the morning, we had either eggs or bacon, or we have porridge, or anything like

that. And at noon, most of time they have warm, if not they have all kind of cold things, sandwich and

everything. And at night they give you such a big supper that you couldn’t eat. Either was steaks or was

a beef roast or was a pork roast or was pork chops and potatoes and vegetable.

MB: Yeah, that would have been [inaudible]

MG: And we was not, especially when we come to the border to Canada. I was number one.

MB: Okay, now when you did actually get closer to Canada and the shoreline, as you call it, do you

remember what city the boat docked in? Was it Halifax? Or was it Montreal?

MG: Oh I think it was Montreal. And then we were sent to Regina.


MB: Okay, I just want to ask you about when you saw this land, when you first saw the shoreline, what

went through your mind?

MG: Well, when I see the land and I see some things and seen them looking at that, I said to myself,

well, why are you worrying about it? You can do that every day what you gonna be done here. You will

get the jobs and you’ll go ahead.

MB: So this is what you were thinking as the boat was…

MG: That’s what… as the boat was...

MB: As the boat was docking.

MG: Docking. Yes, I thought, here I am now. So we’ll see who… But there were immigrants, there were

people there from immigrants to pick us up. And we were three girls together. So I wasn’t alone.

MB: Do you know how this was arranged? Now, what I mean by that is, you said there were people

there, other immigrants or whatever, to greet you, was this in Halifax already, sorry was this in Montreal

that people greeted you?

MG: No, when we came to the place… Well, there were people there to take us where we were

supposed to go in a different boat or something, or a train or what. But when we come this side here,

you know if you have someone that, you didn’t have anybody, they have a place for you to go and to

work there.

MB: Oh I see. So there was basically people, first of all, at the…

MG: See, when I come, there were already people here, in Calgary a few, yes, that they know me. Now I

didn’t went to Calgary at first. I went to Regina.

MB: Okay, so Tante, all I’m trying to find out from you, okay, we’re not in Calgary yet. Forget about

Calgary and forget about Regina. I just want you to tell me about what happened when you got off the

ship in Montreal. What happened…

MG: There was the people there, what you call them that they work for, people like…

MB: Agents?

MG: Agents, yeah, but they are working for us, they know we don’t know anything. There was a German

person there that talked to us and tell us which way to go. I think we must have been about fifteen or

twenty of us together, three girls and the rest boys.

MB: And at that point in time, did they say to you, okay, you are going to this point in Canada, you are

going over here? Or did you know already before…

MG: We knew it already that we might be stayed together or might get all job in the same city.


MB: Okay. Did you have any idea of what the city was called?

MG: Yeah. In Regina.

MB: So did your ticket actually say…

MG: We went off ??? and then we got the job, I got the job in Regina. That’s where we stayed. And we

all three of us went in and got the jobs there. The other two went away, and I stayed there.

MB: The three women you were with, okay…

MG: And my cousin.

MB: And your cousin, John Fischer. Once you got off the train, there were these agents there who ???

MG: Yes.

MB: Okay. And then you would have to, and then did you buy a train ticket to go? Or was the train ticket

part of your ship passage? Was it extra?

MG: No, I think it was all paid. I didn’t paid anything…

MB: You don’t remember having to pay…

MG: No.

MB: Okay. So you get on the train…

MG: We went some time in the office and we came out because they want to find out what you are and

looked in if you don’t have anything. Because there’s so many immigrants did that. They go right all

through and ???

MB: So you went through a big hall, then?

MG: Yes, ???, like in the big cities, where it stopped.

MB: So you had to go through. They asked you about… do you remember what kind of questions they

asked you?

MG: Well, they ask us why we are doing there and what we going to do there and what we have in the

suitcases and how much money we have.

MB: Customs, then? It was Customs, not Immigration?

MG: Yeah. Immigration. Must be Immigration. Customs ??? had different ones that, you know,

Canadians…


MB: Now, what did you tell them when they asked you, okay, why are you here, what are you going to

do here? What did you tell them?

MG: I told them I was trying to go ??? to the States. I had my sisters there. And I couldn’t go, and I

thought I’m going to come to this country and I’ll go from there to the States.

MB: What was their reaction to that?

MG: No, they said, you have to wait just as long with us as you will wait there.

MB: Oh, you have to wait just as long to get out of Canada as you do…

MG: But I said, is it any way that my sisters could do anything with the money because they are well

enough and ??? [muffled and very soft] …and they said if you go there like this, you’re not safe to go

there. You have to be on the quota that you received. Otherwise they’ll…

MB: So they said you pretty well have to just...

MG: Leave the way I was.

MB: Stay here in Canada…

MG: They said they’ll give me a good place to work. Then I said, I can’t speak English. No, we’re going to

give you a place to work where is German, where you speak German.

MB: Okay. And this was in your first place that you went? That was in Montreal?

MG: Yeah.

MB: Now…

MG: No, in Montreal they didn’t. Montreal we were just for two days, and then we went to Regina, and

that’s where I got the job.

MB: I know, but they told you all of this…

MG: They told me all there what to do and they said that if I get to Regina, I have the job.

[00:12:13] MB: Okay. So you got a ticket, then, to go to Regina…

MG: To Regina, yes.

MB: And the two other ladies?

MG: Two other ladies, and they were a few men, too.

MB: And your cousin John Fischer.


MG: My cousin Fischer, yeah. He was always with…

MB: He was always with you. Can you tell me about what it was like to travel across this big country that

we had. Did you realize how big Canada was?

MG: Oh no, I didn’t, no. Just what you see on, what you call…

MB: The map?

MG: The map. And my sister said, don’t go there because there are wild Indians there. And they were all

worried the whole time that I was on the trip. When I was there, they thought the Indians are going to

do something to me.

MB: Okay, so what were your impressions as you were taking the train, okay, from eastern Canada and

going to Regina? So obviously there was part of your trip you didn’t see because you’d be traveling

through the night. But the things that you did see, what went through your mind?

MG: Oh, it was nice. I liked it. I liked the ??? liked as much my job working as I did… I did get a little

lonesome for home, but…

MB: Yeah, I’m just talking about just the land itself.

MG: It was very nice. Oh yes. We just couldn’t get over it because at home we have just a little bit land.

And here was [inaudible] They were very nice, they spoke German too. The big farmers, going to see

much more than that.

MB: Alright, so you came to Regina and you knew that somebody would greet you at the train station.

MG: Yes.

MB: And it was supposedly a German family.

MG: She was German, he was English. He was right from England, and she was German.

MB: Oh really?

MG: Yeah.

MB: Was she from Germany the country? Or from German Russian or…?

MG: No, no, from Germany country.

MB: Okay, so this family, then, they took you in…

MG: They took me right in, yes.

MB: Okay, and did anybody else go with you, besides…


MG: Just the man, the head man that was taking us there. Nobody else. My other friends were not too

far away from me to working in, Berta Schmidt, but she wasn’t there too long.

MB: Okay. And your cousin?

MG: And my cousin was there, too, John Fischer, but he didn’t stay very long in Canada either, and then

he went.

[00:15:14] MB: Okay. So now what, how did this family treat you, then?

MG: This family, and this kids, treat me like I was God. That’s as they treat me. Just everything, you

know. Well, I did everything for them. See, the mother went out. I washed and cleaned and I took all

over. They liked me. They all loved me. That was really a family. He was English, she was German. Just, I

worked very hard. Sometime maybe sleep two, three hours. But that didn’t matter to me because they

was so nice to me, and the wife was with me working, we were both working. But that didn’t matter to

me. I liked it.

MB: How many children did this family have?

MG: Seven.

MB: Do you remember their names?

MG: I kept the cards for a long time.

MB: Oh, they sent…?

MG: ??? Yes. They really, they really, we get along nicely with the kids. She went out and…

MB: Did they pay you?

MG: Oh yes. Twenty dollars a month.

MB: Twenty dollars a month. And you worked, like you said, long hours.

MG: Six o’clock sometime. But I didn’t have to. Just on my own. Till eleven o’clock ??? sometimes even

longer.

MB: Now, was this on a… were you living in a city or were you living on a farm?

MG: It was in a small town, see the farmers ??? but where I worked, they didn’t had a farm. They had a

big store. But her brother had a farm right there because they asked me if I would work, I said no. I

thought I’d be too lonesome there. ??? said not to go, there are Indians here! You’re already going.

MB: Yeah. But once they found out that you had arrived safely in Canada and you wrote them, then they

phoned you.


MG: But I thought it couldn’t be so bad, I’m not alone. We were about twenty boys and three girls. I

said, must be safe place. And if something happens, it happens to all of us.

MB: So how long did you stay with this family?

MG: Oh, three, two years till I didn’t get married.

MB: Okay, now I know you got married in Calgary, Tante. So we’re still in Regina, right?

MG: Yes.

MB: We’re still in Regina and you’re working with this family.

MG: And then I went…

MB: I have one question to ask you before we jump ahead here to Calgary.

MG: Yeah?

MB: Did you speak German with these children?

MG: Oh yes, yes.

MB: Oh, so you spoke German. Obviously you spoke German with this lady.

MG: Yes.

MB: Did the children at all teach you any English?

MG: Oh yes. Oh yes. And they sent me to school.

MB: Oh.

MG: They sent me there to school that is German. They paid for me.

MB: They sent you to a school to learn English?

MG: English. Um-hmm.

MB: What were the teachers like, were they...?

MG: The teacher that worked there, they spoke German and English, see. And I picked up, and then at

home there, well, I didn’t have any other change. The wife spoke German, but she just didn’t want it

very much because she said you’ve got to learn the always, the kids want to talk to you. And so I learned

pretty fast. I learned pretty fast.

MB: I believe it. You were still quite young.


MG: Yes. Twenty-two years old. Twenty-one when I left home.

MB: This lady that you lived with, the German lady…

MG: That I worked for her…

MB: Yes, she was born over in Germany and then came to Canada?

MG: Yes, she was born in Germany but he was English man.

(0:19:23) MB: Okay. So now, you stayed with this family for a while. And I want to ask you to try to

remember how it was that you left Regina or this area of Regina and this family. What kind of things

happened to you? Why did you come to Calgary?

MG: Well, were some friends here.

MB: In Calgary?

MG: In Calgary. There were more people going to Calgary than to Regina. And then someone was here in

Calgary, who was it? I think Berta Schmidt who wrote me, phoned me, come, there’s larger jobs here.

MB: Oh I see. Because you said they didn’t stay very long in Regina. So they…

MG: No, they didn't. Somebody got me there, or was some of the boys, I can’t remember.

MB: So somebody who had originally, one of these people or whoever that you came with, they got

themselves to Calgary…

MG: Well, there was so many more here, see.

MB: Exactly. So they knew that you were still in Regina and you kept in contact with whoever it was…

MG: Oh yes. And Regina, I thought I’m just gonna go to Regina, and then I’m going to jump to…

MB: To the city?

MG: To the States.

MB: Okay. And that wasn’t… Did you keep checking while you were in Regina to see if you could get to

the States?

MG: Oh yes. All the time. And my sisters, they thought that she has to wait until the quota. They even

went to give them so much money that they would

[pause in tape]


[00:20:58] MB: This is the second part of an interview with Magdalena Grafenauer. It is May 18, 1987.

And the Interview is taking place at her nephew’s house, George Jenuth, at 4923 Valiant Drive

Northwest,

MB: So here we are again, Tante…

MG: Here we are again.

MB: For a lovely conversation. Okay, Tante, you decided to come from Regina to Calgary…

MG: To Calgary.

MB: Because some of your friends had said, Lena, come to Calgary. There’s work here, and whatever. So

you left the family you were working with in Regina.

MG: Yes.

MB: How did you get to Calgary? Do you remember at all?

MG: Sigh. How did I get to Calgary? I think it was by train. By train I went to Calgary. And then they

picked me up, because there was some friends in Calgary and they picked me up.

MB: So you weren’t all alone then when you arrived?

MG: No, I wasn’t alone in Calgary.

MB: Now, when you came to Calgary, do you remember what you thought about this city? Because here

you were working in a small place in Regina, and you came to a city? Do you remember what you

thought about Calgary?

MG: I thought Calgary was much nicer and ??? because there were a lot of people here that I know, and

I really enjoyed Calgary. Calgary, when I come, was more like to home, you know, because everybody

was here. I wasn’t alone.

MB: What about the… What time of year was that? Was that in the winter? Do you remember what

season it was?

MG: I think it was in the summer, if I’m not wrong.

MB: That’s okay. So then…

MG: I have someplace in…

MB: So it was green and…

MG: Yes, it was… well not in the summer. Little green coming, now a little bit.


MB: So where did your friends then take you after they met you at the train station? Where did they

live?

MG: That was in east Calgary, it was Mrs. Schmidt. Mrs. Robert Schmidt. See, we came together, we

three. Schmidt and there was Anna, I don’t know what was her name. She came from Daik ???

MB: That’s alright.

MG: Do you remember her name, Anna? No.

MB: So you stayed at Mrs. Schmidt’s.

MG: Mrs. Schmidt had a rooming house. All Austrian men there with her. She got married to an Austrian

man, Bob Schmidt, pretty fast. And then they started like a boarding house.

MB: A lot of places in Calgary were like that.

MG: Oh yes. Lots of them just were doing it for money.

MB: So now Tante, when you moved in with the Schmidt family, did they know where you…

MG: I didn’t move in with the Schmidt family. No, ??? was in with the Schmidt family. I wasn’t. I was

with the Mrs. ???, where I was working.

MB: Oh, okay.

MG: Soon I come here, you know, I stay with some people just for a little bit. Nothing. Then I went to

work on my own because I needed the money.

MB: Alright, Tante. How did you find your, do you remember how you found your first job when you

came to Calgary? Did somebody tell you about it, or say look in the newspaper?

MG: No. See when we came here, they give us some kind of jobs, you know, because we were without

nobody and anybody, you know. And so I got the jobs to go to Jewish people.

MB: Oh. Well who... okay...

MG: That was the man, what they call, that brings us here. What they call him?

MB: The agent?

MG: The agents.

MB: So, when you came to Calgary, did you have to go to some kind of office to say, okay, I’m here in

Calgary now. I would like to work…

MG: The agents already when we came off the train. They were waiting for us.


MB: Okay, but Tante, that was in… you were already in Regina then.

MG: Oh, after, in Regina?

MB: No, this is when you came to Calgary, Tante, and you had friends here already…

MG: Yes.

MB: And they had jobs. So you already had a job in Regina, we know that. But how did you find your first

job here in Calgary? Did your friends take you somewhere or?

MG: They was some friends but they had arranged, see, they had arranged our jobs to the people,

because the way we were coming, you know. So that they give us the jobs that we working there,

because we didn’t know anybody that time.

MB: Okay. So where did you first work then in Calgary?

MG: East Calgary. 8th Avenue East.

MB: 8th Avenue East. Okay. So can you tell me a little bit about the family that you worked with?

MG: They were Jewish and they spoke German, so that’s why I went there because I couldn’t speak the

language. So she was a Jewish lady and she speak German and I liked it, and I started work. That’s where

I learned, you know, English.

MB: What type of job did you have with these people?

MG: That’s when I was the housework and helping them with the kitchen or cooking if she was sewing

???. Because they were Jewish and they cook a little different than we do, but they still liked Austrian

food sometime.

MB: Oh, I see. So you had to prepare the meals most of the time.

MG: Most of the time. Clean the house. I did most everything, really, because the mother was in the

store. They have the big store.

MB: Do you remember the lady’s name?

MG: DeWorken.

MB: DeWorken?

MG: Uh-huh. Mrs. DeWorken.

MB: Now, did they have any children than you had to take care of?

MG: No, not that time.


MB: So when you were working…

MG: They had two sons and a daughter.

MB: But not at the time that you were…

MG: Well, they just got off… the son was still home, this one son. He didn’t…

MB: Okay. Now Tante, where did you live? Did you live with friends? I know you were working with the

Jewish family but where did you...

Tape 3, Side 1 – 30 minutes

MB: Were you living around that area where they were living?

MG: Well, I got right away… I didn’t lived anywheres. I have to go to work. So I looked for a job as Mrs.

DeWorken right away to work.

MB: Oh, did you live there? You stayed with them?

MG: Oh yes. I stayed there.

MB: That’s alright, Tante. Okay. So you stayed… do you remember how much money you made

working? Was it a lot? Or was it very little?

MG: It was ten dollars a month or ??? Very little.

MB: Very little, okay.. Obviously you worked very hard, Tante, but did you, in any of your, what did you

do during your spare time? Did you see your friends at all? Your other Austrian friends?

MG: Yes, sometimes I went to see my friends that I know. They come there and pick me up.

MB: Did you have cars at that time?

MG: They had some old cars but it was ??? A little while after, our people start to get the old cars. But

first nobody had any money to get cars.

MB: Exactly. So you did a lot of walking then.

MG: Oh yes, lots of walking. All walking.

MB: What did you… in terms of what Calgary looked like, all the way back in the late 1920s and 1930s,

was it?

MG: Just a little place.

MB: Just a little place.


MG: There was just a few houses down on the main street. And that’s where we lived, across the main

street. There wasn’t just a store with houses ??? There was just a – I don’t know how I would say it – it’s

like when you go out to the country sometimes. A little place. But it growed fast.

MB: It certainly did, didn’t it? It’s a different city now. How do you feel about Calgary now, since you

came in the 1920s?

MG: Now it’s a big city, a special place.

MB: Do you feel lost here at all?

MG: Yeah. If I were to go down there and the things that there were before, I still know. But the one

that is new, I would get lost.

MB: So now Tante, can I ask you, how did you meet Uncle, well, how did you meet…

MG: How did I meet Uncle, now you want to know how I meet my husband. My husband was for room

and board by Mrs. Schmidt. So he was there. And then I went there to her, and that’s where I met my

husband. There were lots of other boys that I met them. But when I met my husband, I thought,

nobody’s like him.

MB: Aww. His name was John Grafenauer.

MG: John Grafenauer. And I know my husband’s sister, one of them. See, her sister’s in Kershta ??

where I always went up there to get the mail, yeah, or anyway just to thinks, or something. So I know his

sister very, very good. And then I know my uncle ??? my husband ??? see they know, too. Because my

husband, and her sister ??? husband, they were, my uncle is always the head big man, and that man

wants to be, too, but he didn’t made it. And I always remember when my uncle came home, he said ???

[whispers]. (Laughter.)

MB: So in other words, you knew a lot of people in common from Austria.

MG: Oh yes. I know a lot because I was traveling. We had the insurance.

MB: Oh I know, Tante. But we just want to stay in Calgary.

MG: On, in Calgary.

MB: It’s important to know that you had people in common in Austria, but you’re still here in Calgary so

we’ll just stay with Calgary. What kind of job did Uncle Grafenauer have when you met him here in

Calgary?

MG: Where was he work? At first, I think, was just doing something in hotel, washing the dishes. And

then myself, I was working for a big man that was the head chief in the ??? shop there.

MB: In the ware ?? shop?


MG: Where my husband worked.

MB: So…

MG: So that’s when I met… I met my husband just a little before and then I got the job to go to these

people. And I stayed there until I got married, you know, and then we start talk, and they say what’s my

husband, I said, my husband isn’t working.

MB: Oh. Now hold it. We’re a little bit ahead of ourselves here, Tante. Okay. You were first working with

a Jewish family…

MG: With the Jewish family.

MB: Then you met Uncle Grafenauer.

MG: Then see, with Jewish family, how I met Uncle Grafenauer...

MB: Yes.

MG: Because he used to room and board there.

MB: Well, you said he roomed and boarded with the Schmidts.

MG: Oh, first. Oh, then he went, yeah, but then he wasn’t long.

MB: That’s okay. We don’t have to follow where…

MG: Just a minute.

MB: Where he rooms and boards. Okay, a lot of people first of all moved to the Schmidt’s house just

until they found a more permanent place.

MG: Yeah.

MB: Okay. So then Uncle Grafenauer, or John Grafenauer, he moved…

MG: To Schmidt’s for room and board.

MB: Yeah. Okay. We’ll just leave it at that. We won’t worry about where you worked or where he lived.

Okay. So do you remember what year you got married in?

MG: 1928?

MB: 1928. Okay. Were there a lot of people who attended your wedding? Can you tell me about your

wedding day?

MG: Yes, we had quite a few. My sisters were here.


MB: They came from the States?

MG: Yes, my sisters was at my wedding.

MB: Oh wonderful!

MG: Um-hmm. Yes, I had a nice wedding. Well, first I have just dresses we just made it. But when my

sisters came in, they did a lot of things, and we had a nice wedding.

MB: Were you married in the Catholic church?

MG: Yes.

MB: What church were you married in? Was it St. Mary’s?

MG: St. Mary’s.

MB: Cathedral. So what time of year was that in? Was it in winter or fall or?

MG: I say fall, early fall. It was still warm.

MB: Okay. Now, when you married John Grafenauer, did you move into a house, did you rent a house of

your own? Or an apartment, a suite?

MG: We moved into a room, and there we had a stove and a bed and everything in there. That’s what

we had.

MB: So it was a one-room…

MG: Yes, and my husband had a steady job after that.

MB: What type of job did he have?

MG: He worked at Ogden shop.

MB: At where?

MG: Ogden for CPR.

MB: Oh, the Ogden Shop for CPR.

MG: For CPR.

MB: Okay. How did Uncle Grafenauer get that job?

MG: How did he got that job... I think it was just a, someone was there, someone was… When I worked

for Mr. Critchley.


MB: You worked for another gentleman, then?

MG: I make for ??? I work for a family that he was the head, the biggest man from CPR and CPR office

and his name was Mr. Critchley.

MB: Oh, okay. Can you tell me about Mr. Critchley because you worked with his family for quite a long

time doing housework or domestic work. Was he from England?

MG: He was from England. Well, he was an immigrant, just like we are. Just came from England

because…

MB: Opportunities…

MG: Yeah.

MB: But he was a director or a president or something…

MG: From a big company, he was very high man [inaudible whispering & laughing]

MB: You’re a very funny woman! [laughter]

MG: He would do it that himself. ??? already, he laughed.

MB: Yeah. So this Mr. Critchley, okay, he got your husband a job, didn’t he? Did he get other people,

other immigrants jobs, do you remember?

MG: No.

MB: But he did get your husband…

MG: He never got… He was the big head man, but he didn’t give anyone else. But other people that they

doing there, but just they like me there. And he like me very much, too, because I did a lot of work for

him and his wife was the Americans.

MB: Oh.

MG: And they were just two altogether different, you know. Different people. And the last time I told

him, well my sisters are American too, and my mom and dad were there. But I get very well along with

him.

MB: Where was his house, then, that you worked?

MG: In Elbow Park.

MB: Oh, so it was a very big house that you took care of.

MG: It was quite a big house, a very big house. And then his son just got out married. Very big house.


MB: Okay, so Uncle John then, he worked for this Ogden Shop on the railway…

MG: Yeah, and that Mr. Critchley got him. Otherwise he wouldn’t have that job.

MB: Yeah, exactly. Because you were already into the Depression, the 1930s.

MG: Oh, very badly, very badly. But all on the welfare. He was most the only man from Lada??, Austria

that he worked.

MB: Oh, you mean a lot of the Austrians who came here were on welfare?

MG: Was without a jobs.

MB: So unemployment…

MG: Oh yes, was very bad. But for the womans who were working that you get a job, and I just took a

job housework because I couldn’t do anything. I could do maybe some cooking or that, but at first when

I was working…

MB: Oh sorry, Tante, would you say that a lot of women, then, at the time the Depression was going on

and the husbands could not find a lot of work, were a lot of other Austrian-speaking women working,

like you were?

MG: Oh, yes. Quite a few. But a lot of Austrian men was more lucky, you know, they had some kind of,

maybe it was lumber or something like that…

MB: Trade.

MG: Trade, and my husband not has a trade. My husband was just lucky that he got the job from Mr.

Critchley, otherwise he would never…

MB: So, were most people then that you knew, were they lucky enough to have a job during the

Depression? Or was it kind of off and on that they would be working?

MG: Most of them, but quite a few they have to go out on the farm, work for the farmers. They could

not get the jobs in the…

MB: They had to leave Calgary.

MG: They have to leave Calgary, yes.

MB: Is there anything else you can tell me about during those years, those long difficult years, Tante?

MG: Well, they were difficult. They was very lonely years from start. You come to this country, you can’t

speak, you don’t know what the people are speaking, you don’t know what they’re saying. I was just one

of the luckiest one that I got a woman that spoke German. And that’s the way, and I stay with her for

quite a while and I learn how to German, and then I go to the English lady away from there that she was.


And the English lady was just a wonderful person. And the kids, she had quite a few kids, you know, and

these kids couldn’t speak anything else. The other first place, she spoke German.

MB: That was in Regina though, right?

MG: But when I went to Calgary, it was these people were English. He was real English. He came from

England. But she didn’t; but he was real English. And they had four boys? Five boys?

MB: Is that how you picked up English, with them?

MG: English, yes.

MB: Tante, can I ask you, at that time that you came to Canada, were there any… Okay, you said that

you had Austrian-speaking friends or Austrian friends, I should say – not Austrian-speaking – but

Austrian friends, were you able to read newspapers in the German language here in Calgary?

MG: Oh yes.

MB: Oh really?

MG: Oh yes.

MB: Did people send them from Austria here for you to read? Or how did you get them?

MG: Well some just send it from Austria here. But you can buy it here, too, in Austrian bookstore or

what they call, a German…

MB: The German butcher stores?

MG: No, bookstore. Where you buy the books already.

MB: Oh, you could buy German material?

MG: Oh yes, they had here. Material, too, but more books to read.

MB: Oh, that’s interesting.

MG: Oh yes. At first wasn’t, but it went so fast. When you came here, the German also they just, one

was open a store, one had a rooming house, you know…

MB: Everybody just got right into…

MG: Just into doing! A few that they were working, but most of them were trying to earn their own.

MB: You mean their own businesses.


MG: Yeah. I found myself, people very nice. I found the nicest people in Canada that I went through in

my life. And I found, people maybe don’t like it, but I found the English people from England as one of

the nicest people. And they were the husbands or wives, were very good to me.

MB: That’s wonderful, Tante.

MG: But I was, many years he was the head…

MB: Mr. Critchley.

MG: Yeah. He was just one of the nicest man. He’ll do just any… just to say, Oh Mr. Critchley, I would

like that ??? And then he would do it for me. But then I did everything for them.

MB: So you were working in Elbow Park, then. Did you work for other people besides the Critchley

family? Did you clean other houses in that same area, in the Elbow Park area?

MG: Oh yes. Yeah.

MB: How many houses would you say that you cleaned?

MG: I know sometimes I went three places in one day.

MB: In one day?

MG: In one day.

MB: Boy, Tante! So what time did you get up in the morning, then?

MG: Oh, about six. I was at work at 7:30.

MB: When did you come home then?

MG: Oh, sometime I really come home late. Because my husband came and picked me up. He was so

scared and worried for me, and he came and picked me up to go home.

MB: That’s understandable.

MG: But I kept on doing that.

(0:15:48) MB: Now, Tante, let’s talk a little bit about your own family that you have.

MG: Yes.

MB: When was your daughter Evelyn born?

MG: Now wait a minute, 1928.


MB: No, no, no. You married in 1928. It would have been...

MG: No. How can I forget that…? I was married 1928.

MB: Right.

MG: So it must be 1930 or in there because she was, when I get married I had Evelyn right…

MB: A year after.

MG: Quick.

MB: Pretty quick. Okay. So now, Tante, was Evelyn one of the first children from all of your Austrian

friends that were in Calgary?

MG: No.

MB: A lot of these people had children… started families...

MG: Oh, yeah, most of them they had. She was more like the end one.

MB: She was the “baby” then?

MG: Yeah.

MB: Of the whole Austrian group.

MG: Yeah. And all of them were ???

MB: Now, when she was growing up, Tante, where did you live?

MG: We lived in Calgary on, where was it?

MB: Was it in Bridgeland or?

MG: We were not… Calgary east. We had...

MB: That’s alright. Did you have…

MG: Evelyn was... did we bought house already? No, no. We lived in three rooms, something like that.

And right a little after, we had the house…

MB: On Centre Street?

MG: You know, because soon we know, when I got married, and my husband we know that he had a

steady job, like there in Calgary. He didn’t make very much, but he made enough. I had good jobs. And


we both worked. And I stayed home for a while when Evelyn was born. But we had a little money

before…

MB: Saved up. That’s right. So, now when you were raising Evelyn, what language did you speak with

her? English or Slovanish?

MG: Slovanish a lot and German a lot. Because at first I didn’t talk very good English, so that’s the way

how I learned English, with Evelyn.

MB: That’s right, all through children. So now, when Evelyn was growing up, did she associate then with

your Austrian group of friends? Or did you have, did she get to know…

MG: Canadians.

MB: She got to know the Canadians.

MG: She associate with Canadians. Very few…

MB: Austrian children, or children from Austria.

MG: Yeah, her friends was all, her good friends…

MB: Her Canadian friends. Okay. How did you and Uncle John feel about education? Because education

was a different thing in Europe as opposed to here in Calgary.

MG: Oh no, both of us we wanted it. Because uncles, people and cousins here, they were all high

educated, and uncle was always ???, he always felt bad that he didn’t go to the highest school than he

did. Because he was a very, very smart man.

MB: Yes, that’s what I understand.

MG: Very smart man. His memory was…

MB: He read a lot, didn’t he?

MG: A lot. He should be… I don’t know, I say with these people he should be a real high up man. But he

had only one eye?? and ??? [speaking very softly]. But he was a very smart man. Not because he was my

husband, but…

MB: No, I have heard that, that he was a very intelligent man.

MG: Very, very.

MB: So you both felt that it was important, then, for Evelyn to go to…

MG: To go to schools. I always said, now when I was 20, I have to work. And I didn’t have to work – I

wanted to work. We could make the living easily with his money. And he really didn’t want me to work.


But I did want to go to work because I want to have something when I have Evelyn. I want to have

something for them. I want to have our own home, and I want to have that and that. And so we rented a

place and I did the roomer thing, and I cook for I don’t know how many mens.

MB: Oh, you had boarders, too?

MG: Oh sure.

MB: So that’s how it was. You stayed at home but you still worked because you had boarders.

MG: Yeah. Sometimes I still went to work. Boarders were home and I went to work, and so ??? didn’t, he

stayed home. We couldn’t just ???

MB: Now, you said that Tante Ellie, well I call her Tante Ellie, but Evelyn went through the Catholic

school system, did she not?

MG: Yes.

MB: Okay. Can I ask you about how your family – like you and Uncle John and Evelyn – how you spent

time together? What types of things did you enjoy?

MG: Oh, we did a lot of things together, Evelyn and I. My husband was always with her and playing and

telling her that and that. And sometimes I was cooking. We were really very close family.

MB: Did Uncle John ever, you know, tell Evelyn what kind of… or did you ever tell Evelyn what kind of

life that you wanted for her or what she should do?

MG: No. I always said what kind of life she wants it, whatever she wants to be. That was in my heart.

Because I was not ??? that I never did. What you want to be. It doesn’t matter what, but I do like you to

go in to school. Don’t be like I am, go out to scrubbing the clothes. And that’s all you have to do. Any

other way. So that I did say. And then she went on her own. I said, you gotta think what you want to be

and I can’t tell you that because you know it. And she picked out to be a nurse, and when she went in,

she was a very good nurse, and she was ???

MB: Yes, she also had her Master’s Degree in Nursing Administration.

MG: Yes. She had most as high as the nurse can go because she could something more, I would want her

to go.

MB: Yeah. If she wanted to go on to be a doctor…

MG: No, she didn’t want to be a doctor. And in one way, I thought doctor is too hard for ??? She didn’t

want to do that. She would be a good doctor. She would cry if somebody would ??? she’s too soft.

MB: Too soft-hearted. She sounds a lot like you then, Tante. You’re very soft hearted. You always think

of everybody else first before yourself.


(0:23:54) MB: Tante, can I ask you about the type of friends that you made in Calgary? Okay, I know that

this community of Austrians is very close. But would you say that they were your only friends here in

Calgary?

MG: No. Soon as I was able to talk in English, I had almost all English-speaking friends. And that’s how I

learned English. I didn’t have too many. We were a few. But they were people that I … [inaudible] …

They just lie so I just…

MB: You didn’t trust them too much, then.

MG: No.

MB: Oh I see. Do you think…

MG: I had my cousin that I…

MB: But the other people that were really…

MG: Not the ladies ??? I couldn’t…

MB: That’s okay, Tante. So you found, then, that your closest friends were English-speaking friends.

MG: English-speaking people, yeah.

MB: I remember when I was a child, your friend Millie.

MG: Yes. Friend Millie who was another good friend. She died, too, and the business. They were French.

Her and I, we were just very, very close. My friends was not any German or Austrian, it was all either

French or English speaking people. When I was able to talk.

MB: That’s right. So then you could share things with people. About, would you say that a lot of the

Austrians that came over here, did some of them marry Canadian-born women or women from

England? I know John Yanshet?? married Millie.

MG: John Yanshet.

MB: Oh. John Yanshet.

MG: John Yanshet married Millie.

MB: That’s right. And she became your friend.

MG: Very good friend. Yes. Now who was the other one?

MB: Anybody else marry... Who were those people that had the farm that you knew, the Austrian

family? Oswalds.


MG: Oswalds, yeah.

MB: He married, Mr. Oswald married an English-born woman.

MG: No, no.

MB: No.

MG: She’s a Russian German.

MB: Oh, was she really?

MG: Her parents are Russian Germans. But she’s born in this country so she’s English but her parents

are Russian German.

MB: Yeah, because Mr. Oswald had a farm outside of Calgary, didn’t he?

MG: Yes. He bought himself when he married her.

MB: Tante, I just wanted to ask you one more question about your friends and things like that. How did

families, with the Austrian background, spend Sundays? Because I remember, as a child, when we used

to always come over on Sundays to your place on Centre Street North. Did that start…

MG: Most of our friends, people when they came here, they were at my place when I had a little place.

We were getting together. For many, many, many years.

MB: Every Saturday or…

MG: Almost every Saturday, weekends...

MB: So what would the men do? Would they play cards or something?

MG: They were playing cards.

MB: And the women, what…?

MG: Some womens came with the men, some just stayed at home. The ones that came, they just sit

and…

MB: Had coffee…

MG: Or we went out a little shopping, things like that. Then I came home. I had to make something

ready for the men that was there. I was always busy. But our place was just like when you were in the

old country, like a home. See, all the old country people, they were at our place. Young and…

MB: Young and old.


MG: Yeah.

MB: Whoever came was part of Austria.

MG: They all liked my husband because he was very…

MB: He brought a lot of people over here, didn’t he, Tante?

MG: Yeah. A lot of them, yeah. So I couldn’t ???. And I liked it, see. I wouldn’t like ??? hard for me. But I

liked it. The more people came, the better I liked it.

MB: Less lonely.

MG: Yeah.

Tape 3 of 3; Side 2 – 29 minutes

MB: Tante, you said the more people that came to your house, you said that a lot of weekends, just

about every weekend people would come over; were you lonely at all in those years that everything was

so busy…

MG: Until I didn’t find my friends. When I found my English friends, then I wasn’t anymore. When they

found that our, some, our men, that they came here. So they get married to the English-speaking

woman, and then I was always close friends with them. See like Anna got married, too, and she’s

German, she Russian German but she speaks English. John got married to a real English person. And

most all of them, you know, went ‘round like that.

MB: Now, Tante, if you can’t remember anything about this time period, don’t worry about it. But I feel

that it’s important that I ask you. You know, you’ve seen so much. You came in the late 1920s...

MG: Yeah.

MB: You and your other friends lived through the Depression, and you were bringing up families during

that time. And then the war, WWII, breaks out. Okay? Now, as Canadians, or people that came from

Austria, alright, were things different? Was life different for you and other Austrians and Germans here

in Calgary when the war broke out in Europe?

MG: No. I didn’t found any difference. People were just as good to me. Even they know I was an

Austrian. And didn’t do, you know, maybe a little hard time, but compared to home, it was good. I can’t

complain. Here was wonderful. The way we were in Austria, and I come from big farmers, see, that we

had everything. But when I come over here, I thought I’m in heaven!

MB: There’s gold everywhere!

MG: Yeah! How can the people do that? How can they have that? And then [inaudible]


MB: So like during the second World War, though, Tante, people didn’t – like Calgarians or English-

speaking people – didn’t treat you any differently?

MG: No.

MB: They weren’t prejudiced against you?

MG: No.

MB: Not at all?

MG: And they all know that, they knew my husband was in the war. I told them the truth.

MB: WWI.

MG: I told them all the truth. But they were all nice to me, because we talked together and I said the

way it was, that the whole country was ??? change, it was no such a thing, if they want to go to war or

not. You either go or…

MB: Or that was it. So here in Canada, did any of the Austrians that you knew, did they have to go off

and fight the war for Canada?

MG: No. Not that I know. Just who wants it.

MB: Just who wanted to go.

MG: Oh, they wanted some of them to go in the… but they didn’t… let me see, did anyone…?

MB: Did anyone you remember fight on Canada’s side?

MG: Maybe there were some of them that they went and fight. Or the youngest boys. But not the type

that I came in, but after us…

MB: The ones that were born here.

MG: Yes. Ones that were born, they were just the same the Canadian.

MB: That’s right.

MG: They didn’t have any other change. Canadian went too.

MB: Okay. Did Canadians – okay, I know that you have experienced a lot of difficult times in your life,

Tante, and worked very hard. But were the war years, the WWII years, from 1939 to 1945, would you

say that those were more difficult than the other years that you experienced in Calgary? Or was it

basically the same? Was there any big difference?


MG: No. No. It was nothing to complain. We had everything. Compared to home, we had everything. It

was heaven here.

MB: So life during WWII went on as normal…

MG: As normal as… yes. And nobody was hungry. Whoever wanted to eat, sure you couldn’t go and

have I don’t know, but the meals compared to old country was Number One!

(0:05:10) MB: Okay, now Tante. After the war, we’re in 1945, WWII has ended, okay; you’re still in

Calgary with Uncle John. You’re satisfied, are you satisfied with your life at that point?

MG: Yes. Of course we didn’t have very much, but we were one of the wellest off because I had a job,

you see. I worked for Mr. Critchley, English man. I told him how it is.

MB: You both had incomes…

MG: He got him the job. Yes. And he had a steady job after that. Nobody…

MB: So Uncle John stayed with the CPR then, from the late 1920s until he retired.

MG: Yes. Until he retired. So it was always pretty good. But I always, I stay home maybe for a year or

two. When my husband was without a job, then he stayed home with Evelyn, see. Then I was able to

work.

MB: That’s right.

MG: I feel more, you know, didn’t feel like leaving home.

MB: But it was a relationship where you both supported each other and the family.

MG: Yeah. It was all one.

MB: It was all one and the same thing, yeah. Tante, now after the Second World War, we’re into the

1950s, okay? Now this is a time when a lot more Austrians and Germans started again coming in. Can

you tell me what you noticed or how things were, the differences, what you observed about these

young immigrants coming in?

MG: They were different than we were.

MB: Were they?

MG: Oh yes.

MB: In what way, Tante.

MG: Oh, they wouldn’t do the jobs that we did. It was all too much. They wanted to have job always

better. And then they were always complaining no jobs and not enough money. That’s right.


MB: Totally different then.

MG: Because we came in, we were so happy whatever we got, because we came in with nothing and we

got the job. When we came here, we only work half as hard as they work in Austria! When I come here, I

thought I’m not working.

MB: Because you didn’t feel like you were working!

MG: No!

MB: So this young, this new breed, we’ll call it this new breed of immigrants that came in the 1950s,

okay, Germans and Austrians, you said they didn’t want to just take any kind of job.

MG: Most of them try to pick up what they can. They that didn’t have any money, they have to take

anything they get. See, we were about 20 of us together...

MB: When you first came over, that’s right.

MG: And then they was split, one was in Saskatchewan, one was in Regina, one was in…

MB: But these new immigrants in the 1950s, Tante, they were young, they were young men, weren’t

they?

MG: Oh yeah. I was just turned 21 about a week before, and then I went.

MB: Oh, I know. But I’m not talking about when you came, Tante.

MG: Oh, after that.

MB: I’m talking about, sorry, about the Germans that came and the Austrians that came in the 1950s.

MG: Oh.

MB: ??? That’s already been discussed. But these Germans and Austrians that came then in the 1950s…

MG: Yes.

MB: What, okay you said that they were different from the type of people that came in the 1920s.

MG: Yes, they were really different.

MB: Did they have trades, or…?

MG: They had more trades, yes.

MB: More education or?


MG: Oh yes, more education too.

MB: Were there any particular young men that came over at that time that you can tell me about what

happened in their lives? Okay, your nephew came over, did he not? George Jenuth?

MG: George Jenuth. And my nephew Max.

MB: Max Brandstaetter came over. Yeah. What other people were there that came over?

MG: Oh, quite a few was here.

MB: And was it the same thing? Did they all meet at your, or did they all meet at Centre Street at your

home?

MG: They came, yeah, to my home, yeah. Well, whoever did want to came. They all [inaudible] relatives

or not, like you ???

MB: In other words, it didn’t matter. When these young men came in, they came from the area of

Austria that you came from, the Galital area. But your husband, he was the type of man that he would

make them feel welcome whether they were relatives or not.

MG: Yes.

MB: They came from the same valley or the same region, but he made them feel welcome.

MG: Yeah. Oh yes.

MB: So they would come over to your house, wouldn’t they…

MG: Yes, most of the time at our house. Most of the time they were at our house. And then when they

were there, they were playing cards. And they didn’t had very much money, so I made… But it doesn’t

matter what I cooked or what I made, they were happy. And I wasn’t that time such a good cook. No old

country cook in here. But then I went in work in housework out there, and they made me to cook. That’s

the way I did. I worked.

MB: So you tried… whatever you learned, you tried on these new immigrants that were coming then?

MG: Yeah, well they were all people that… somebody has to give them someplace, you couldn’t stand if

they didn’t have any money not to give them the food. I would share the half a piece of bread around

with them. And Uncle was very good, kind, too.

MB: To them, yeah. Now, with most of the immigrants that came in the 1950s, okay, did they make, you

said that a lot of them were different, they didn’t want to take jobs like you had done back in the 1920s,

like clean floors or…

MG: No, no.


MB: So where did they, how did they go about getting jobs for themselves?

MG: Well, it was quite a hard to get the jobs. And at the last, they still had to take what they were able

to get. They couldn’t…

MB: But at first they didn’t want to?

MG: No.

MB: Oh I see.

MG: They thought they gonna get better jobs.

MB: The world on a platter.

MG: But they didn’t. But then, most young mens was pretty good, you know. Like some of them, like my

son when he came here…

MB: Oh yes, you have a stepson who came over.

MG: Oh yeah.

MB: Val Moser.

MG: When he came here, his father was working in auto shop. But I worked for a CPR, the head man,

the big man.

MB: Yes, Tante. So…

MG: And that’s the way my son, when he came here, he had the job, CPR, I talked to Mr. Critchley and I

felt so bad, and he said Lena, I am going to help you but don’t say… because there were so many of

them to get the job.

MB: Yeah. I understand that Mr. Critchley also, with these immigrants that were coming in the 1950s, I

understand that Mr. Critchley got Max Brandstaetter also a job at Revelstoke.

MG: Yes. Yeah.

MB: So he had connections with the lumber industry as well.

MG: Oh yes, big lumber. He had money in that lumber.

MB: Oh, I see. So he was a man who had invested money in different types of industries…

MG: Yeah. He was a very, very nice man. But I’m telling you, he had one of the tight wife that anybody

can ever…


MB: She didn’t like handing out the money.

MG: And holding the money. And we were always, him and I, you know, we were always laughing, you

know. He stick with me, and I stick with her… ??? I always laughed since I met her. How the world... I

didn’t tell him that. But how the world that that man married that? Nothing coming together. Absolutely

nothing. But he get married and he thought he has to live with her, and he did live with her.

MB: But Mr. Critchley, then, made it a little bit easier, then, for a lot of immigrants who came over there

in terms of being able to find a job.

MG: Yes, yes. He was very helpful.

MB: Uncle John, then, would have… he took care that as many people that he knew coming from over,

coming over from Austria…

MG: Yes. First he took like people that he knows, like he know’d me. Uncle John came. We were the

first. If we had any job like that you know...

MB: Mr. Critchley would do favours for people that were very close to you.

MG: Yes, when he liked them. Not for everybody. Just who he liked.

MB: Oh. So did he meet someone like Max Brandstaetter, or that he got a job for, did he meet him

before he got him a job? Or did he…

MG: I think he seen Max, I’m sure he seen Max. I think he seen all…

MB: A lot of them. Yeah. Okay.

MG: But was very good to me, you know. He is ask me, and he tried to do the best job so who liked the

job was okay. Same way with Val and all that.

[00:14:56] MB: So now I have to ask you another question about your life. Like we’ve talked about how

there were so many gatherings at your place. You were more or less, your home was the centre, was the

focus for a lot of people.

MG: Was the people from old country that they came they had no place to go. And some of them didn’t

have the money. They were hungry and there was no jobs. So but they come to our place and we share.

We wasn’t hungry.

MB: Now Tante, can you tell me about church and what it was or how important it was in your life.

MG: The church was the important thing to my life. Nobody. Is my faith. Nobody can take that off me.

MB: What church…?


MG: The ??? and all of these, that’s the way I straightening it out, which church, I don’t go to the people

and…

MB: And argue with them.

MG: No, because that’s really helps me, going to the church and prayer. Church is my… always, people

think that they give it up and they’re against church. I was always fighting for it. But I didn’t fight, I just

said, we’ll talk together and then later on in years, you will tell me. But most of them…

MB: You mean, are you speaking of the Austrians who came over here, that church wasn’t really that

important to them, you mean?

MG: Not to some men, no.

MB: Oh, I see. Okay.

MG: Most of them…

MB: Most of them who came over…

MG: My husband, he believed it. But most of them you know… They were at my place. No, and they

wouldn’t go to church. They were, just didn’t believe it. I ??? him to go, I said you cannot, and my

husband did, too. He was a very good church man, Catholic.

MB: What church did you mostly go to? Saint Paul’s on Edmonton Trail?

MG: Yeah, Saint Paul's, we were in Calgary, too for quite a while. Which one we go to Calgary?

MB: Yeah, Tante. I think it was St. Joseph’s and then it was St. Paul’s...

MG: Saint Joseph, and then was the little one, yes, Saint Paul’s on the 4th Avenue, was a little church,

too.

MB: Uh-huh. 4th Avenue SE, you mean?

MG: 4th Avenue, just off Centre Street and then just on the 4th Avenue, was a little… what you call that

church?

MB: Excuse me, Tante. That’s Saint Paul’s.

MG: Saint Paul’s, yeah.

MB: It’s a very small church. But I remember when I was growing up, how on Sunday afternoons…

MG: And Saint Joseph we went to…


MB: We went to church, we all went to church. Then we would meet at your place on Sundays. I will

never forget that. And that continued for years and years...

MG: We went Saint Joseph’s church, too.

MB: That’s right, oh yes. Saint Joseph’s and Saint Paul’s. First we would meet at church. I remember we

would get all dressed up and we’d say, yup, we’re going to Tante’s. You know, we’d always say “Tante.”

We’re going to Tante’s. And we always had, I remember, coffee was always on, and my mom and I

would sit in the kitchen and the men would either be outside or they would be playing cards.

MG: Oh yeah, your mom was always very nice to me. I always like your mom, right from the start very

much.

MB: Yeah, Martina. Do you call her Martina, or Tina?

MG: Martina first, then after we start call Tina. And now I call her sometime Tina, sometime Martina.

MB: No but I do remember coming over and it is, I think…

MG: Your mother was your mother the way she is. Your mother didn’t talk, oh, I come, I’m better, I’m

from this and this family and little more than…

MB: And when my mother came here from…

MG: Your mom was just the way she is and what she is.

MB: yes, she's... well, but I think we all learned a lot from you, Tante. I can’t speak for the men, but I can

speak from myself and from my mother that, you know, we all, it was very important for us as a family

that you were there, that you were…

MG: Yeah, but you were all, they were all very nice to me, especially your dad.

MB: Well, Tante, you deserved that.

MG: Very, very…. even yet, I see him quite often. Ask me, Tante have you got… if I have enough or if I

need... he says, anything you need…

MB: But I think that says a lot about your life, Tante.

MG: That’s what I feel bad.

[00:20:00] MB: Oh I know. Anyway, Tante, you moved away from Calgary, didn’t you?

MG: Yeah.

MB: Because your daughter, Evelyn…


MG: Yes.

MB: Right? She became an administrator for hospitals. So at that time, she had had a son already, so

your grandson… you’re very proud of your grandson, Francis…

MG: Oh yes.

MB: He was a big part of your life.

MG: Oh yes, oh! Part of my life!

MB: You basically raised him, too, didn’t you?

MG: Yes. Yes.

MB: Can you explain how that came about, why you spent…

MG: Because my daughter, she has to made a living, nobody give her any cents. Her husband didn’t give

her one cent! Nothing at all.

MB: He left her. Her husband, that’s right. The marriage…

MG: Well, then she didn’t want him.

MB: No, I know. But so he is out of the picture. Her husband is out of the picture…

MG: And so we… she was my daughter, and we… that was all one. We lived together. And whatever I,

whatever my husband and I had, she had. And the same with Vaughn?? I never put Vaughn, he’s just my

stepson, but I never put him that he’s alone in ???, never did that. Because I was brought up with a

stepfather, and my stepmother just drove me out like you know…

MB: So you knew what it felt like..

MG: Oh yes. No, I always the same way, what I had I shared with... the people said why am doing that?

He’s my stepson. And I was not treated right, so how would I feel? But I talked over with my daughter

and everything. I didn’t just do it because my daughter’s my daughter. She was everything. And I talked

everything over…

MB: With her.

MG: With her before I did anything. And she agreed, and no troubles, never.

[00:22:02] MB: Okay, now Tante, I know Evelyn had to go to Edmonton to receive her education.

MG: Yes, she has to go.

MB: And while she was up in Edmonton, you took care of her son Francis, that’s right.


MG: Yes.

MB: So he was educated here in Calgary.

MG: Yes.

MB: Now, when Evelyn finished school, she came back down to Calgary. And, now, she worked here for

a number of years in hospitals, okay, in Calgary.

MG: Yes.

MB: And then, at one point in your life, you moved from Calgary to Vancouver, didn’t you?

MG: To Vancouver, yeah.

MB: Now, can you tell me a little about that part of your life?

MG: Oh, in, in Vancouver was, I think was when my husband was dead, you know. I did want to be here

where he is buried, but I didn’t want to be alone. So I went to Vancouver and it was very…

MB: It was different?

MG: I had a friend up there, otherwise they would have hard time me to get up there. But I had a friend

that I know her in Calgary…

MB: And she had moved to Vancouver, then.

MG: And she was there so I went there. It was nice. And when I was just used to it and I just like it, then I

have to…

MB: Then you moved to Edmonton. So, okay, and now you’re just here on a visit. You started out in

Calgary – isn’t this something, Tante – you started out in Calgary and you moved to Vancouver with your

daughter and her son, and now you are living in Edmonton.

MG: I’m living in Edmonton now till…

MB: Till Evelyn finishes…

MG: Until Evelyn retired and gets her pension.

MB: And where do you think you’ll go when Evelyn retires? Do you think you’ll come back to Calgary?

MG: Yeah. We have to. Yeah, we kind of…

MB: You hope so or…?


MG: I’m hoping so to Calgary. I want to go there. See, we can’t go to Vancouver, I don’t think there’s a

pension up there.

MB: Oh well…

MG: She’ll be under pension.

MB: Oh sure, she would get her pension there.

MG: Would it? So I don’t know.

MB: Yup.

MG: We both like Vancouver, you know. Vancouver’s a nice place to live. But we like Calgary. I like

Calgary because they’re all our people there.

MB: Yeah. So, Tante, is there anything that you’ve thought about that you wanted to put down on tape

or anything extra, anything special that you wanted to say?

MG: We had a tape on how I came in. Last time I had a talk…

MB: Oh yes.

MG: That I had a stepmother and how she was treating me…

MB: Yeah, Tante, we’ve got everything down on tape, yep. But are you… let me ask you this question. If

you had to do it all over again, okay…

MG: Yes.

MB: Would you come to Canada?

MG: Yes.

MB: You don’t regret ever coming to Canada?

MG: No. Never.

MB: So, now once you met Uncle…

MG: It was hard for me because I want to go to the States where my sisters are…

MB: I know. Yeah.

MG: And then I arrived here, but when I was here, I was quite happy.

MB: And you married and you had a family.


MG: Yeah, and I had a nice husband. He died, ??? but then daughter was big enough that I had her.

MB: Yeah. So you don’t, you are happy that you found life here in Calgary, then?

MG: Oh yes. Oh I like Calgary very, very much.

MB: So Tante, after all these years, you are going to be 81 years old, I know that, but what would you

say is the most, or what can you recall as being the best, the best parts of your life here in Calgary?

MG: When I was married to my husband, and when I was working besides that, when I had my daughter

before ???

MB: Yeah, and your grandson…

MG: And my grandson after ??? As long as… and my son. As long as I had enough money to give them

and to cook what I want.

MB: Those were the most important…

MG: That was my most important things in the world. And I was healthy enough and strong enough that

I could make the extra money. My husband was always good. He give me anything I want. It was no such

a thing but he has...

MB: But all in all, then…

MG: We made little by little. Like how we made it, how that we got the houses and that, I can’t even tell

you how we did. But we did it. Because he make such a small wages, but I worked.

MB: You made a good life here for yourself.

MG: I worked hard to... something even more than that.

MB: So, Tante, I think you have a lot of reason to be proud of who you are and what type of life you’ve

had here. Would you say that you’re a proud Canadian, or a proud Austrian?

MG: I like Austrian, too. The Austrian are nice. But my life in Austria was very hard. So I would have to

say my life that I thrilled to live it was Canada. We come from… It’s not that I come from a poor people.

No, I come from wealthy farmers. But my mom died and that was the end of it.

MB: So…

MG: And another woman… the woman was the worst woman in the world.

MB: I know, I know Tante. So then you are then pleased that you came to Canada.

MG: Oh yes.


MB: Okay. So, well Tante…

MG: Canada is what I would say it is one of the best and kindest place. And I would say it, people maybe

say different, but I like English people very much. And they were all very good. They say that they didn’t

like the Germans, they like the Austrians. But the way they were, just... if I wouldn’t have these English

friends past, I wouldn’t get the job…

End of interview

petroleum industry oral history project transcriptwith her because she was mean to us and spank us,...

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