oxford classics mods - 2011 (course iia) plato, euthyphro and meno

8/13/2019 Oxford Classics Mods - 2011 (Course IIA) PLATO, EUTHYPHRO AND MENO

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FIRST PUBLIC EXAMINATIONHonour Moderations in Classics (Course IIA)

PLATO, EUTHYPHRD AND MEND

HIL RY TERM 2011Monday 7 March, 9.30 am - 12.30 pm

Answer Question 1 and TWO others

Marking scheme: Question 1,40 of overall mark; other questions, 30 each.

Do not turn over until told that you may do so.

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1 Write critical comments on FOUR of the following passages:

(a) SOCRATES: I shouldn t be surprised. But you shall tell me thatanother time when we have leisure. For the time being, try to

(b)

d answer more clearly what I asked you just now. You see, when Iasked you before what holiness is, you didn t adequately explainit, but you said that what you are doing now, prosecuting yourfather for impiety, does happen to be holy.EUTHYPHRO: Yes, I was telling you the truth, Socrates.SOCRATES: Possibly. But look, Euthyphro, you do say that thereare many other things too which are holy?EUTHYPHRO: And so there are.SOCRATES: Do you remember, then, that this wasn t what I wasasking you to give me - one or two examples from a multitude ofholy things? I asked you for that special feature through whichall holy things are holy. For you were in agreement, surely, that itwas by virtue of a single standard . that all unholy things are

e unholy and all holy things holy. Or don t you remember?EUTHYPHRO: I do. (PLATO, uthyphro 6c8-e2)

soc. Do you want me to g iv e you an answer in the s t y l eo f Gorgias , in the way in which you would fo l low most 5eas i ly?

MEND Yes, o f course .SOC. Well, do you speak o f certa in e f f luences

from th ings , in agreement with Empedocles? MENDCerta inly_ soc . And pores in to which and through whichthe e f f lu e n c e s travel? MEND Yes, i ndeed . SOC. And 10some o f the e f f lu e n c e s fit cer ta in o f the pores , o thers dare too small or too large? MEND Yes . SOC. And do yousay that there i s such a thing as s ig ht ? MEND Yes, Id o . soc . .Well , take my meaning from t h i s , to q u ot ePindar. Colour i s an e f f lu e n c e from shapes which i scommensurate wiLh s i g h t and p e r c e p t ib l e .

MENO I think t h i s i s a very good answer you've given ,Socrate s .SOC Yes, for perhaps it s the sort you re used and

a t the same t ime I th ink you r e a l i s e t ha t on th i s b a s i s

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you could al so say what sound i s and smel l , . and many eo ther things o f that s or t .

MENO Yes, cer t a in ly (PLATO, Meno 76c4-e2)ACLA4565


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c)

MENO. And how are you going to search for t h i s ,Socra tes , when you d o n t have the fa in t e s t idea what iti s , Which of the th ings t h a t you d o n t know wil l yousuppose tha t it i s , when you are searching for it Andeven if you o come across it how are you going to knowt h a t t h i s i s the th ing you d i d n t know?

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SOC. I see what you r e get t ing a t , Meno. Do you see ewhat a content ious argument you r e conjur ing up, t h a t iti s n t poss ib le for a man to search e i t h e r for what heknows or for what he doesn t know? For he wouldn t searchfor what he knows - for he knows it and t he re i s no needto search for something l ike tha t ; nor for what hedoesn t know, for he doesn t even know what he s going tosearch fo r .

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MENO. Well, doe. n' t t h i s argument appear to you to be 81good one, Socrates?SOC. No.

PLATO, eno SOd5-S1a3

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d)

soc. What do y u t h ink , Meno? I s t he re any opinion tha tt h i s boy answered t h a t i s n t hi s own?MENO No, t h e y r e hi s own.soc. And ye t he d i d n t know the answer, as we sa id a

little whi le ago.MENO You re r i g h t .soc . But these op in ions were in him we r e n t they?MENO Yes.SOC So the person, who d o esn t have knowledge aboutwhatever t may be he d o e s n t know has in him true

opin ions about what he doesn t know?MENO t appears so.

c

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SOC Well, now these opinions have been newly aroused int h i s boy as if in a dream; but if someone asks him these 10same th in g s many t imes and in many ways you can be suret h a t i n the end he w i l l come to have exact knowledge o fthese th ings as well as anyone e l s e does .MENO t seems so.

d

SOC Then he wil l come to have knowledge without havingbeen taught by anyone, but only having been asked quest ions,and having recovered t h i s knowledge from himsel f?MENO Yes.SOC And i s n t recover ing knowledge onse l f , in onese l f ,

reco l lec t ing?MENO Cer ta in ly .

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PLATO, eno 85b8-d8)

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e)

soc. Then if nei ther the sophi s t s nor the accomplishedgentlemen themselves are teachers of the sub jec t , i s itc l ea r t h a t no-one e lse wil l be?MENO I d o n t th ink anyone e l se wi l l be.SOC. But if there a r en t t eache rs , there won t be

pup ls e i ther?MENO I th ink it i s as you say.soc. But we have agreed tha t a th ing o f which there are

n e i th e r teachers or pupi ls i s not teachable?MENO Yes, we have.SOC. Then teachers of excel lence are nowhere to be seen?MENO That i s so.soc. And if there are no t eache rs , there are no pupi l s

e i ther?MENO I t appears so.

c

SOC. Then excel lence won t be teachable? 10MENO I t doesn t look l ike it if our considera t ions d

have been cor rec t . And so I rea l ly wonder, Socra tes ,whether there a re n t any good men a t a l l , or , if thereare , in what manner those who come to be good do so .soc. I t looks , Meno, as if you and I are not very good, 5

and you were not adequate ly t r a in ed by Gorgias nor I byProdicus .

PLATO, eno 96b6-d7)

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f)

SOC. I t i s n t worth a high pr ice to acquire one of hisworks unt ied, j u s t as with a slave who runs away for itd o esn t s t ay put ; but it s worth a grea t deal to acquireone tha t i s t i ed down for the works are very f ine . hy 5do I say th i s? With reference to t rue opin ions . For t rueopinions too are a very f ine th ing as long as they s tayin t h e i r place , and produce a l l so r t s of good th ings; 98but they are not wil l ing to s tay in t he i r place for along t ime but run away out o f man s sou l so they arenot worth very much u n t i l someone t i e s them down byworking out the explanat ion. This my f r i end Meno i sreco l l ec t ion , as we have agreed in what we sa id before . 5When they are t i ed down they f i r s t of a l l become pieceso f knowledge and then permanent; and it i s for t h i sreason t h a t knowledge i s more valuable than r i g h t opinion,and it i s by being t i ed down t h a t knowledge d i f f e r s fromr i g h t opinion .

PLATO, eno 97e2-98a8)

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2 How good are Socrates arguments in the uthyphro against piety s being theservice o the gods?3 Is Socrates right to think that the virtues can be unified?4 Can Socrates give a good account o apparent cases o deliberate self-harm?5 Does the theory o recollection work as a general theory ofleaming?6 Does the demonstration with the slave boy show the elenchus in a newconstructive role?7 Is the method o hypothesis consistent with Socrates earlier insistence that wemust know what virtue is before we can tell what it is like?8 Are we to infer from the closing argument o the Meno that Themistocles andPericles were genuinely virtuous?

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oxford classics mods - 2011 (course iia) plato, euthyphro and meno

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