-1-

DEPL BtU OF EJGATIONIDe ofnp 2/10/ 95

At approximately 10:37 AM on 2—7—, MZI A1ED YOUSEF,shortly after being arrested by Pakistani Military Officials, wasinterviewed by SA BRADLEy 3. GARRETT and SSA RALPH HORTON, LegatBangkok at a military station in Islamabad, Pakistan.Because of exigent circumstances surrounding the Possibilyof activated explosive

devices, YOUSEF was asked if there are anyexplosive devices at his residence or in the Islamabad area. YOUSEFadvised that ther i explosive material at the residence where he wasarrested. He stated thatCellulose Nitrate was at his residence inthe form of Cotton as well as some timing

devices. YOUSEF stated theCellulose Nitrate is soaked into the Cotton and is activated by a heatSource. The timers as well as the CelluloseNitrate are not activatedaccording to YOUSEF. YOUSEF

also advised that there are flQ otherexp1osjv stored in theIslamaba( area and he stated "1 do not keepan inventory. YOUSEF stated that the explosives at his residence arestored in a blue bag. Also there is a toy in the blue bag wrapped inthe explosive Cotton.

YOUSEF was asked what his name is and he stated "i havemany" but he Stated he is'Present]y using ALl BALOCH, DOB 2-15-66.YOUSEF was asked if he is RAMZ1 ARMED YOUSEF and he stated that he was

•

YOUSEF and stated theindividual i.n the FBI wanted flyer(IO 5200) isinfact him("jt is

me") (YOUSEF/B1JOCH) YOUSEF was provided 10 5200and he stated that Was him in thephotogragh. YOUSEF wasfingerprjfl by SA GARREjyi at the military station with a

Preliminaryindication that his prints match YOUSEF.YOUSEF stated that his realname is ABDtJL BASIT, DOB: 4-27-68 and that he was born in KUWAIT.YQUSEF had in his possession a Pakistani

Passport, No: AA662804.YOUSEF was

verbally advised of his rights by SA GARRETT andthen SA GARRETT wrote out in longhandhis rights and read them toYOUSEF. YOUSEF advised

he understood his right, does not want anattorney and willVoluntarily talk with SA GARRETT. YOUSEF signed thehandwritten statement

acknow1edgjnc he understood his rights.

Pakistan F#pi

by SA BRADLEy J GARRETTbjg — 2/7J95Thu dOcuMcoj e coIuo of the L ibe of the I end Ioad ywagency;ft end ita coe are tto be du*zibu outai4e your mgeixy.

C tio t3a2 r Ramzi Ahmed Yousef2/7/95 p 2

Ljflu nO o —S

YOUSEF was asked if there areany explosive., devises inMANILA in the Phillipines that he is responsible for and he statedthat several materials used to make explosives were seized in MANILA.YOUSEF stated that the materials in MANILA, were Sulfuric acid, Nitricacid, Acetone and Cellulose Nitrate in the cotton form as previouslydiscussed. YOUSEF declined

to discusE; why this material was inMANILA.

YOUSEF was asked if he committed th World Trade CenterçWTc)bombing and he stated "i mastermindedthe explosion." YOtJSEF statedhe purchased the materials to build the bomb from City Chemicals inJersey City, NJ from a salesman by the first name of PETER. YOUSEFstated that the telephone

number for City Chemicals is l-BOo-cIT-cH.YOUSEF stated he stored thematerials, in lockers at the spacestation(not further described) in the NY/NJ area. YOUSEF stated theWTC bombing cost less than $20,000. YOUSEF stated he built the bombused in the WTC bombing.

YOTJSEF declined to state who provided themoney but he st:ated themoney partly came from friends in PANIsTAJ.He advised that the friends did not necessarily know the real use ofthe money but was considered a "loan." YOUSEF stated that because ofa lack of funds, the WTC was not as successful as he desired. YOUSEFstated he was hoping for a quarter million casua].itjes but could notQ obtain the funds to complete the bomb to his satisfaction. YCUSEFstated that the vehicle used

to carry the bomb into the WTC was arental and he knew this wouldcause problems as far as tracing thoseinvolved in the bombing.

However, because of a lack of funds, arental vehicle was used insteadof purchaing a vehicle. YOUSEFdesired to purchase a vehicle because ot his concern about tracing thevehicle. YOUSEF stated that

thebomb was placed in the right locationin the WTC but stated the bomb would have been different if more fundswere available YOUSEF declined to discuss others involved in the WTCbombing other than stating he was not directed by anyone or any grYOUSEF stated that he came to the UNITED STATES inSeptember, 1992 to "obtain an

american passport and look for targets."YOUSEF advised be wantedan american passport so he could freelytravel in and out of the US. He stated that "targets" are Possiblebombjsjtes in the US and stated he looked at potential bombingtargets in c6hrt— NJdfe Hisgoal tTjt Tjj' Jthen retutEr Itan torecruit funds for the bombing operation. YOTJSEF stated he did notselect the WTC until after arriving in the US in September 1993. Hestated that bombing the WTC would be "more effective"

in convincingthe US that they must change their policy regarding ISRAEL. YOUSEFstated the reason for the bombings was because of the US military,

Iy

Con orF-3o0r Ramzi Ahmed Yousef , 2/7/95 3

financjai and political suDport or ISRAEL. YOUSEF talked at lengthabout ISRAEL being an illegal state and that ISRAEL is committingcriminal acts against muslims.

YOUSEF stated that the american people would need toconvince Washington of changing ISRAELI policy and this would happenby bombing various locations in the US. YOUSEF stated thebombingswould continue ji the US but declined to djcu further.

YOUSEF stated he was most affected by a BBC report whereISRAELI solders broke the hand of a palestinian using a rock. YOUSEFadvised that most muslims believe the US Should be punished because oftheir ISRAELI policy but do not have the money or the organization tocarry out bombings. YOUSEF stated he has no personal agenda with theUS, only the US ISRAELI policy.YOUSEF stated he was born in KUWAIT and lived there for 20years until the IRAQI war when his family moved to Pakistan. YOUSEFstated his family was

originally from Pakistan. He attended highschool in KUWAIT and from 1986 to 1989 attended the WEST GLhM0RGAJINSTITUTE OF HIGHER LEARNING in the United Kingdom. YOUSEF stated heearned a Higher National Diploma in Electronics and the course wascalled COMptfl'ER AIDEDELECTONICS(CJE) In 1989 he returned to KUWAITand worked as a Communications

engineer at the National ComputerCenter for the Ministerof Planning. After IRAQ invaded KUWAIT inaugust 1990, YOUSEF then moved to Pakistan. YOUSEF stated his firstlngzage is Arabic but also speaks Baluch as well as English.

•

:tr moving to Pakistan YOUSEF. stated he went to various\training camps in Afghanjasfor a period of six months. YOUSEFdescribed these camps as 'a Place Arabs can get training" inexplosives, defensive tactics,weapons use, etc. YOUSEF stated thateach camp specializes in (one area, for example explosives. TheseJ camps are located at various sites

in Afghanistar but YOUSEF declinedto provide their locationsor any specfjc information about theirfunding or manpower. YOUSEF did state that 55 people were in his sixmonth training course and the class prior to his had 40 people. In1991 YOUSEF stated he graduated from the camps and spent six months ir

\Afghanistan Practicing his new skills.

YOUSEF stated he was notfighting for a cause in Afghanistan but onlyPracticing explosives,weapo-y, etc. YOUSEF stated he learned specifically how to build

Con nutionofFD3O2of Ramzi Ahined Yousef 2/7f95

C,easier today than before." The reason for this is that instructionalmaterial is more readily available today. YOUSEF stated he has readthe "Chemical Dictionary" ten times and has found it very useful inbuilding explosive devices. YQTJ'SEF stated that after training inAfghanistan, he returned to Pakistan and continued to read about bombbuilding. He also experimented with building and detoning bombs tobecome more proficient. In January or February 1991 YOUSEF stated hewas married in Pakistan but declined to discuss his wife's name or herlocation. YOUSEFalso statedhe can build poisonous and chemicalbombs but declined to provide detai1.,

YOUSEF stated that he left New York on the evening of theday he blew up the WTC(Feb 1993) however his flight was delayed anddid not leave until the early morning hours of the following day.YOUSEF stated he took a Pakistan International Airline(PIA) flightfrom NY to Pakistan.

Since returning to Pakistan YOUSEF admitted setting off"many devices" at unknown 1ocations but stated thLwere on CNN.YOUSEF decli -#o--proVi'e locations or spiTTEs about thesTRtherbombiHe-c1idstatë that nonTäf 11ë ôtber boère againstUS nferests. YOUSEF would not further discuss the Afghan trainingcamps other than there are about 10 camps and they are now in

O different locations than when YOUSEF attended the camps.

YOUSEF ask SA GARRETT several questions about executions inthe Us and asked the length of time before executions are carried outafter receiving the death penalty. YOLJSEF stated he believes that hewill be executed in the US.

YOUSEF ask SA GARRETT at the conclusion of the interviewwhat will happen to him at this time and he was told that he was inthe custody of the Pakistani government and would remain in custody.YOUSEF requested from SA GARRETT at suit coat, dress shirt, tie, dresstrousers, socks and dress shoes. SA GARRETT advised YOUSEF that theseitems of clothing would be provided for him prior to any courtappearances and/or exposure to the press.

'lOUSE? stated that during World War II the US droppednuclear bombs on JAPAN to force JAPAN to surrender. 'lOUSE? advisedthe same logic applies to him(YOUSEF) setting off explosive devises atUS targets to force the US to change their policy toward ISRAEL.YOUSEF stated that this is an extreme approach but believes it is theonly way to force the US to withdraw it's support of ISRAEL.

C

cinuAtionorFD4o2orRainz Ahmed YousEf 2/7/95 5

At the conclusion of the interview, Pakistani militaryofficials advised YODSEF would be incarcerated at a secure location inIslamabad.

*1S'

C

D—302a (Rev. 11—15.43)

nt1nu1tIoQ of FD-302 of ABDtJL BASIT MAHMOUD ABDUL KARIM 2/7—2/8/95 Page 15

MANILA:

ATTEMPT TO ASSASSINATE PRESIDENT CLINTON:

BASIT adsed that in the fall of 1994, he had learnedthrough various press accounts, that President CLINTON would betraveling to Manila in Ncvember. BASIT did not indicate where hewas located when a iari&ed oZ the President's trip to Manila.

BASIT claimed that he traveled to Manila a few daysprior to the President's arrival. He then made contact with aperson he described as an "intermediary", but wh... he would notfurther discuss. BASIT described this "intermediary" as someonewho put him in contact with a group of Filipino Muslims who wouldassist BASIT in the assassination attempt.

- BASIT would not identify the number or the identitiesof these Filipino Muslims, nor would he identify any associationsthose Muslims might have with any organizations or groups.

Once in Manila, BASIT determined the President'splanned itinerary through reported ress accounts.-

BASIT related that he thereafter traveled to each ofthe sites which the President would visit, in order to surveythem ror opportunites to attempt an assassination.

HeódtMtthè TéYfat each of these sites was very high; he thought that hispresence in Manila might have been detected, raising the level ofsecurity there.

BASIT further remarked that, during his surveys inManila, he had observed a large number of U.S. security forces inareas which the President was scheduled to visit.

After the completion of his site surveys, BASITconsidered two options for assassinating President CLINTON.

His first consideration was for an attack on thePresident's aircraft, either during take-off or landing. Heexplained that these were the times when the aircraft Tqas mostvulnerable to attack.

D—302a (Rev. 11—15-43)

:ontlnuatlonofFD3o2of ABDUL BASIT MAHMOUD ABDUL KARIM On 2/72/8/95 Page 16

He advised that a variety of methods could be used toattack the aircraft, such as an improvised ground-to-groundmissile (which he claimed t have the knowledge and ability toconstruct), or an ordinary "machine gun". He further noted thatan improvised groud-toground missile could also be used toattack the President at a speaking location.

The second option which BASIT ccnsidered was a bombingattack of the Presidential motorcadewhile the motorcade was en

route between sites in Manila.

BASIT indicated that he considered placing animprovised explosive device in a location along the motorcaderoute, designed to disable the lead car in the motorcade. Heexplained that by disabling the lead vehicle, the entiremotorcade would be brought to a stop, enabling an explosive orpoison gas attack on the Presidential limousine.

He related that he had considered using the chemicalC agent "phosgene" in the attack on the limousine, and noted thathe had the technical ability to readily manufacture thatsubstance. According to BASIT, the phosgene, in a liquid form,could be placed into a metal container, which could then beopened with a charge of explosjv, rapidly dispensing thesubstance as a gas.

BASIT stated that he never considered an attack onCLINTON using a. handgun, .and.majntajned that he never actuallysaw CLINTON in Manila. He did claim that he had observed a.Presidential motorcade movement there, noting that it containedapproximately sixty to seventy vehicles.

BASIT advised that the assassination attempt on CLINTONwas never carried out, due to his observations of high security,and his lack of time needed to plan and organize such an attempt.

SUBSEqUENT ACTIVITIES IN MANILA:

BASIT was questioned regarding his activities in Manilasubsequent to his survey regarding President CLINTON's November1994 visit, and was specifically asked whether Pope JOHN PAUL.IIwas a target of an assassination by BASIT and his associates.

FD—302a (Rev. 11—15—3)

ContlnuationofFD-3020f ABDUL BASIT MAHNOUD ABDUL KARIM ,o 2/72/8/95age 17

He related that his associates had been interested inthe Pope, but denied that the Pope was an assassination target.BASIT attributed religious articles and photographs of the Pope,found in BASIT's apartment in Manila, to the general interest ofhis associates.

He spoke of an incident which occurred in his Manilaapartment in early January, 1995, which had been reported in themedia as a fire. He related that he had been demonstrating theburning of a mixture of potassium chlorate, sodium chlorate, andsugar to an associate, when smoke produced by the burning beganto fill the apartment.

BASIT remarked that the neighbors to his apartmentusually retired early, but on that evening, they had apparentlynot done so, and had noticed the smoke. These neighbors thenalerted a security guard from the building, who knocked onBASIT's apartment door, and inquired as to the source of thefire.

According to BASIT, the security guard did not acceptBASIT's explanation that the smoke had been produced byfireworks.

BASIT stated that the security guard then left thearea, after instructing BASIT and his friend to remain in theapartment.

-

Once the security guard left, BASIT and his friend alsodeparted.

Some time later, BASIT instructed his friend to returnto the apartment, and to retrieve a laptop computer and documentsleft there.

BASIT noted, however, that when his friend returned tothe apartment, a large number of police and security personnelwere there, and they took his friend into custody.

BASIT questioned whether the interviewing Agents hadseen his laptop computer, and inquired as to whether they hadbeen able to review several files, which he described as beingcoded or encrypted in some way.

)—O2a (Rev. 11—15—83)

:ontlnuatlon of FD-302 of ABDUL BASIT MAHNOUD ABDUL KARIM 2/72/8/95, Page 18

He was then questioned as to certain materials found inthe Manila apartment which appeared to refer to U.S. airlineflights, particularly UNITED AIRLINES' flights. BASIT was askedwhy UNITED AIRLINE appeared to be the main target; he repliedthat UNITED AIRLINES was the largest U.S. carrier in that area,and so had the most flights.

BASIT advised that the list of flight informationcontained on the computer was a list of possible bombing targets,but that not all flights listed would have been definite targets.

He noted that, if the incident at the Manila apartmenthad not occurred, there would have been several airline bombingswithin two weeks of that time.

BASIT was asked whether he knew of any plans for future'airline bombings, or any plans for other types of terroristattacks. He replied, that he did not know of any specific plansfor any such attacks, but did add that there were many committedpeople in the world with sufficient knowledge to carry outattacks against U.S. targets. He related that while in Manila, atotal of four people, including himself, were involved in theU.S. airline bombing plot, and that he had personally trained theothers, and knew them to be still capable of carrying out such aplot. He would not further describe or identify the otherindividuals involved in the bombing scheme.

BASIT asked he irterviewing Agents whether the Agentsknew how the person who had been arrested in the Phiiippines, andwho had subsequently escaped, had effected that escape. When theAgents replied that they did not have details of the escape,BASIT described the individual who escaped as being strong,intelligent and resourceful, and further stated that he doubtedthat this individual would have had to bribe anyone to effect hisescape.

In discussing the individual who has escaped fromPhilippine custody, BASIT acknowledged that this individual wasknown as WALl SHAH. Following BASIT's descriptions of WALl asstrong and intelligent, BASIT was questioned as to whether BASIThad been acting under the direction of WALl SHAH. BASIT wouldnot further elaborate on that issue.

FD—302& (Rev II 1543)

Cotiuatio of FD-302 of ABDUL BASIT MA}fl!QTJD ABDUL KARIM On 2/72/8/95 P&e 19

When questioned regarding a business card in the nameof MOHANMAD KHALIFA, found in BASIT's apartment in thePhiIppines—BAsj stated that he did not personally knowKHALIFA, but that HALIFA's busint.ss card had been given to himby WALl SHAH, as a contact in the event BASIT needed aid.

BASIT also acknowledged that he was familiar with thename USAMA and knew him to be a relative of KHAL1FA's,but wI1TötTürtner elaborate.

When BASIT was questioned regarding the types ofdevices and explosives which would have been used in the plot tobomb U.S. airlines, he refused to describe them in detail,because others might wish to use such techniques and he did not jwant the government to have the ability to defeat them.

However, when questioned regarding the contents of someclear plastic bottles whicrt had been recovered during the searchQ - of his Manila apartment, BASIT advised that those bottlescontained nitrobenzjne, which when mixed with potassium chlorateor sodium chlorate, would make nitrobenzjne/chlorate mixture, anexplosive.

He noted, however, that a nitrobenzjne/chlorate mixturewould riot have been used in the bombing of an airliner, as it wasdetectible tnroy -airport security screening. He relateu thatthe explosive which he would have used could not be detected byeven the most sophisticated screening devices, which he claimedwere currently being utilized in London's HEATHROW AIRPORT and inBonn, Germany. BASIT maintained that he acquired his knowledgeof airport explosives screening, ircluding the new sophisticateddevices, by watching a CNN television special report whichoutlined such information.

BASIT did discuss a method which he had devised ofusing a CASIO electronic wrist watch as a timing device, used toinitiate an explosive. He related that, when the back of thewatch was removed, there was a small vacant space in theinterior, where an electronic part could be installed, andconnected to the watch's alarm. He noted that this created atimer, which would be connected c a small light bulb, whoseglass had been broken. A nine volt battery would be used as apower source for the circuit, so that when the alarm functioned,tne circuit would close, causing the bulk's filament to get very

D—302a (Rev. 11—15—83

ontinuauonofFD-302of ABDUL BASIT MA}il1OUD ABDUL KARIM On 2/72/8/95Page 20

hot. The hot filament would be used to ignite somenitrocellulose cotton, which would, in turn, be used to ignite anexplcsive charge.

PHILIPPINE AIRLINE5OMBING:

BASIT acknowledged responsibility for the bombing of arn.i .1 1.... ..é. 1... ... ,4. ......a . ...ethat case "did more than it was intended to do". He refused toprovide any further details regarding this event, but stated thathe would talk about it at a later time.MISCELLANEOUS ISSUES:

'During the interview, BASIT inquired several times asto whether he faced a death sentence in the U.S.; he indicatedthat he expected to be ultimately executed and that his onlyconcern was that he have sufficient time to write a book abouthis activities.

BASIT indicated that since the WTC bombing, he had readnumerous chemical encyclopedias and had become much moreproficient in the construction and use of explosives. He alsoremarked that, subsequent to the WTC bombing, he had instructedothers in training camps in Pakistan, near the Afghan border.This instruct.n s in the use of explocives, through a ten day"basic" and twenty day "expert" course. He noted that the onlycost to the students was the expense for materials used.

In discussing his expertise and proficiency regardingexplosives, BAIT spoke of a device, which he had designed andconstructed, described by him as a type of gun, made from a pen,and capable of explosively firing a projectile.

When questioned regarding apparent injuries to hishands, BASIT related that he had received the injuries as aresult of an accidental explosion in Karachi, Pakistan. Headvised that he has been attempting to remove particles ofimpurities from some lead azide .iith his fingers, while leanirover a quantity of that material. He noted that he hadapparently exerted too much pressure on the lead azide, causit to explode, injuring not only his hands, but his eyes.remarked that as he was being transported to a hospital, hi

'FD—302a (Rev. 11-.1S43)

CConimuatiori of FD-302 of _P BASIT MAHMOUD ABDUL KARIM o 2/7—2/8/95 Pae2 1

formulated an account that he had been injured when a butanelighter had exploded.

BASIT acknowledged that his parents, residing in theBaluchjstan regiorf of Iran, were aware of his involvement in theWTC bombing. He related that, at one point following thebombing, a female who claimed to represent a U.S. telephonecompany telephoned his parent's residence, and attempted toSolicit information

pertaining to the whereabouts of RAMZIYOUSEF, claiming that YOUSEF owed the company a significantamount of money. He noted that this woman, after being rebuffedby BASIT's father, went on to inquire as to the whereabouts ofnumerous individuals, which BASIT knew to be aliases he hadutilized in the past.

BASIT was questioned as to his knowledge of anindividual named NORELflj whose torn-up vehicle registrationhad been recovered at 40 Pamrapo Avenue. BASIT stated that heC - neither knew such an individual nor how the registration came tobe located there.

OTHER ACTS:

BASIT claimed that he was responsible for a bombingwhich "cost tens of lives and hundreds of injuries". He notedthat this bcmbirig had been widely covered on CNN television newsnetwork, but wuld not discussany details, as he stated that itcould implicate friends or relatives of his who were involved.

FD-302 (Rev. 3-10-82)

3536-B-1 -

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Date of transcription 5/11/95

On 4/13/95, SA's Francis J. Pellegrino and Thomas G.Donlon, conducted an interview of ABDUL HAKIM ALI, AKA ABDULHAKIM ALI HASHEM MURAD. MURAD was interviewed as he was beingtransported from Manila, Philippines to New York as a result of asealed indictment issued by the United Stated Federal DistrictCourt for the Southern District of New York. The indictment ofMURAD charged him with Title 18 USC Section 32 Conspiracy toDestroy U.S. Civil Aircraft. MURAD was advised of the identitiesof the interviewing agents and the purpose of the interview.MURAD was read his rights in English and stated that heunderstood. MURAD then read his advise of rights in both Englishand Arabic and again stated that he understood. MURAD then signedthe waivers of his rights, witnessed by the interviewing agents.MURAD agreed to speak to the interviewing agents and provided thefollowing information in English.

MURAD advised that he arrived in Manila . Philippines onDecember 7fir 1QQilir aboard Singapore Airlines which originated inDubai, U.A.E. , with a stopover in Singapore before arriving inManila. MURAD advised that he had received a call it? P"*?ai fromRAMZI YOUSEF (AKA ABDUL BASIT MAHMQOP ABDUL KARIM) in the

Dgcemper, 1994. MURAD stated that he was living withhis uncle, SULIMAN AHMED, in Qassais, a small community in Dubai.Since his uncle does not have a telephone at his residence, thecall came from RAMZI into his neighbors phone, JUMA MURAD (norelation) . MURAD stated that RAMZI requested his presence in thePhilippines without fully elaborating on the purpose, however,MURAD believed that he would be travelling to the Philippines toparticipate in a bombing. MURAD advised that RAMZI sent hijx$1,200 to buy the airline ticket.

MURAD stated that he knew that RAMZI was responsiblefor the World Trade Center bombing and that he was wanted by theU.S. authorities. MURAD stated that he had been with RAMZI duringAugjjst , JL9JL4 , at which time RAMZI. was staying at, the Embassyo_tel in Karachi. While in Karachi, MURAD advised that RAMZIexplained to^him that he wanted to "blow up" unnamed American

on 4/12-13/95 at Aircraft in Flight File * 265A-NY-252802 5Ub3Q<9»~

C< F—SA FRANCIS J. PELLEGRINC< FBITHOMAS G. DONLON , FBI Date dictated 4 / 1 9 9 5

Thi] document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency;it ind its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency.

FD-302* (Rev. ll-15-«3)

2v,oA-NY-252802

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD . On 4/12-13/95. P.,, 2

airliners by placing explosives aboard the aircraft. MURADexplained that RAMZI took him to Lahore in September or October,1994 in order to provide MURAD with training ~in the use ofexplosives and cTiemicals. MURAD stated that he maintained anotebook o~h tne rormulas and instructions provided to him byRAMZI. After departing Lahore, he travelled to Karachi and thenon to Quetta, Paki-.an. RAMZI proceeded directly to Quetta. WhenMURAD arrived in Quetta he stayed at RAMZI 's brother's house,ABDUL MONEEM. MURAD stated that RAMZI was already in Quetta whenhe arrived.

MURAD stated that he left Quetta after about two weeksand travelled to Layari, Karachi, in late October or earlyNovember, 1994, where he stayed with another of RAMZI 's brothers,ABDUL KARIM MAHMOUD ABDUL KARIM. After leaving Karachi, MURADstated that he returned to Dubai where he received a telephonecall from RAMZI during the ea l — part_gf_December, 1994, askinghim to go to the Philippines. After arriving ~in~ the Philippines,RAMZI instructed MURAD to register at the Las Palmas Hotel inManila utilizing the alias SAEED AHMED (ph) , without displayinghis passport which reflected his true identity.

MURAD advise^ that when he arrived in Manila at about3:45 pm, he took a taxi to the Las Palmas Hotel. When he arrivedat the hotel he checked in as SAEED AHMEN. MURAD stated thatRAMZI, clean shaven, was in the lobby of the hotel at this time.MURAD" advised that he ignored RAMZI "while he registered but theyboth then proceeded to h s room. MURAD stated that when RAMZIpreviously contacted him in Dubai, he asked MURAD to bring somehAir^dy e . MURAD stated that he brought five or six differentLoreal hair colorings. MURAD stated that as soon as they settledin the in the hotel, he shaved his beard and RAMZI assisted himin coloring his hair. MURAD advised that he and RAMZI were tryingto disguise their Arabic features while appearing more Europeanin order to receive less attention. MURAD stated that they leftthe hotel around 5:00 pm and returned about 8:00 pm after diningalone at a local restaurant. That night, RAMZI stayed at thehotel with MURAD and they engaged in only social conversation.

On the following day N 2/27y MURAD stated that they wokeup approximately 1:00 pm and wenV^Co the SM Store at the ShangraLa Mall in Edsa, to purchaser contact lenses for MURAD and CafiJiowatches to make tjjnegs for explos4ves- MURAD advised that theydid not buy any watches at this time. At about 5:00 pm, MURAD

FD-302« (Rev. 11-15-83)

'**< /??y -' ft ? £

2.5A-NY-252802 *.rt//4f.

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD . On 4/12-13/95. P.ge 3

advised that RAMZI received, a caj.1. on his cellular telephone froman individual identified by RAMZI, as KHALID, from Qatar, who wasvisj/ting the Philippines. MURAD advised that RAMZlTwas told thatKHA~LID had something ~for him from Qatar, and that KHALID hadarrived in the Philippines a few days earlier. MUfeAD advised thathe~"and" YOUSEF went to KHALID's apartment: in Ermita. but MURADcould not remember the address, but believed it was on Mab:' .iStreet. MURAD stated that it was his opinion that this was thefirst occasion that RAMZI met KHALID based on the way theyintroduced themselves. MURAD explained that KHALID gave RAMZI ahandbag that contained chocolate, potato chips, and non-alcoholic^beer. KHALID also gave RAMZI a letter from someone named SALEH. fMURAD stated that KHALID said that he came from Qatar to open upan employment business to locate Filipinos to work in Qatar.MURAD said that he and RAMZI stayed about ten minutes and MURADnever had contact with KHALID again. MURAD described KHALID asapproximately 5'11", thin build, 26 or 27 years old with a beardand brown hair. MURAD advised that RAMZI stayed with him at theLas Palmas on the evening of 12/27. Murad stated that he andRAMZI, after leaving KHALID, spoke of Islam, Islamic wars, thecurrent position of Arab countries, they purchased Time magazine,walked on the beach, and watched CNN before going to sleep.

On 12/28, MURAD advised that he checked out of th?>. LasPalmas Hotel at aSout 2:00 pm and paid for his stay. He and RAMZIthen went^to RAMZI's residencer the Dona Josefa Apartments, 711nj-gJnr. ftYft Ma] ate Manila, apartment 6.Q3. MURAD advised that laterthat same day, ABDUL MAJID came by at about 6:00 pm and stayedfor only about one hour. MURAD advised that MAJID previouslylived with RAMZI in apartment 603 untdj. 12/2.7 f at which time hemoVed out in order to allow MURAD to move in. MURAD stated thatit was obvious that MAJID-. knew__what was in__the apartment andRAMZI explained that MURAD always wore gloves in the apartmentsince he was frightened of all the chemicals. MURAD describedMAJID as about 165 centimeters, brown complexion, clean shaven,mecflum build, black hair, and r>rjj^pafc«»H from Saudi Arabia. MURADadvised that he knew MAJTH fr" K^raThi and was surprised to seehim in Manila. MURAD advised that RAMZI told him he was there fordiving lessons. MU^IAD advised that MAJID lived in Karachi in asection called Sharafabad where he visited MAJID. who is in theelectronics business, with_RAMZI, in April nf 1993. MURAD alsoadvised that MAJID had _\/TVT gfj~p&M7jr when RAMZI was in the JinnahHospital in Karachi in August of 1993. MURAD advised that RAMZItold him that ABDUL MAJID is just an alias. MURAD also advised

FD-302a (Rev. 11-15-83)

2ooA-NY-252802

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD , On 4/12-13/95, P.g, 4

that MAJID had a TTni-t-«=>rt fii-ates visa and was planning to travel tothe U.S. sometime in the near future. MURAD stated that hethought that MAJID jaight go to the Richmore Flying School inAlbany, New York, because MAJID seemed interested in obtaininghis pilots license and MURAD suggested the Richmore FlyingSchool.

MURAD advised that in either July or August,. 1393 r hewas living in apartment 402 at the Lighthouse Naddi Tower inKarachi, Pakistan. The apartment was owned by HAJI YOUSEF, afriend of his uncle. MURAD advised that RAMZI stayed with him(MURAD) for about one week. While in the apartment, RAMZI wascleaning lead azide out of a container when it exploded, causingserious injuries to RAMZI, including blindness in his right_eyj?. /MURAD stated that RAMZI spent a long peroodPof time in the +hospital and then wejvb to his Pj*y*»" ff house in Tran^to continueto recuperate. MURAD described RAMZI as being very careless whichat times caused problems, including the fire at the Dona Josefaapartment which resulted in MURAD's arrest.

MURAD advised that when he moved into apartment 603, heobserved chemicals, cotton, timers, and electronic materials.MURAD^advised that he moved into the apartment with RAMZI toconstruct^Jjombs. MURAD advised that RAMZI told him at the LasPalmas Hotel upon his arrival that RAMZI wanted MURAD to placebombs on some unnamed American airlines. MURAD advised that RAMZIasked MURAD to assist in determining the proper timing of theexplosive devices because of his aviation background.

MURAD advised that he believed it would be moreadvantageous to set the timer 4 days ahead to remove suspicion,since the authorities would focus on those travelling on theflight the day of the explosion. MURAD stated that he was goingutilize two carry-on bags. In one bag would be two bottles ofnitroglycerine that were contained in contact lens cleaningsolution bottles, one being 320 milliliters, the other 350milliliters. In the second bag, MURAD stated he would put thecotton, batteries, watches and wires, while carrying thedetonators in his shoe. MURAD stated that he and RAMZI discussedplacing detonators in a Parker Pen, in the future, to avoidairport security. MU^AD stated he was going to depart thePhilippines on 1./14/VE aTid proceed to Singapore. That night hewould get on UA flight 2, which flies from Singapore to Hong Kongand the on to Los Angeles. MURAD advised that he would place the

FD-302* (Rev. ll-15r*3)

2ooA-NY-252802

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD . On 4/12-13/95. Ptg. 5_

( bombpn_fLiqht 2 on the Singapore to Hong Kong leg. MURAD saidthifE~~he~"wouTcr depart the aircraft^in Hong Kong, wait until thenext morning, about 8 hours, and then get on United Airlines

9 flight 1, on the Hong Kong to Singapore leg. MURAD advised thathe would plant the bomb and get off the flight in Singapore.MURAD stated that he would set the timers to have the bombsexplode in four day~ MURAD advised that it was going to costabout $ 4,000 U.S. dollars to purchase the airline tickets forthe fights he was going to bomb. MURAD stated that he believedthat AMTN LfKJ. from Yemen, was going to send RAMZI the money.MURAD stated that RAMZi always had four or five thousand pesoswith him and MURAD believes that the money was coming from AMIN.MURAD said that AMIlL_had contacted RAMZI. while they were in thePhilippines. MURAD stated that he was unaware of any bankaccounts that RAMZI had, but suggested that the money may havegone into MAJID's account at the Hong Kong bank.

MURAD advised that he was unaware of any otherairliners that were currently being targeted. MURAD said that hedoes not know what Bojinka means, and never heard of Bojinkauntil the Philippine police informed him of the term. MURADadvised that the CASIO watches that he and RAMZI purchased couldbe programmed for up to one year.

MURAD advised that the explosive devices were comprisedof two bottles of explosive material on which he would place twotimers, two detonators, and two watches on each bottle. One ofthe watches would be connected to one nine volt battery, whilethe other watch would be connected to two nine volt batteries.MURAD advised that he and RAMZI purchased five Casio watches, onewas to be used for practice, the other four to construct timersfor explosives. MURAD advised that after his baggage passedthrough the x-ray machines at the airport, he would proceed intothe bathroom located in the waiting area in order to mix thecotton with the nitroglycerine. The mixing was done after passingthrough security because the x-ray machine would not detect thenitroglycerine and cotton separately, however if the componentswere mixed before passing through security, the density wouldchange and be detected. While in the bathroom on the plane, MURADadvised that he would assemble the wires, batteries and explosiveto the watch whose timer was already set to explode over water.MURAD would then place the bomb underneath a detachable plasticpiece adjacent to the sink. The bathroom is near the cockpit andMURAD advised that he and RAMZI were certain that the hull of the

FD-3021 (Rev. ll-15r-«)

JA-NY-252802

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD . On 4/12-13/95. Ptge 6_

plane would rupture and cause chaos in the cockpit. MURAD advisedthat he and RAMZI were sure that the explosion would cause thedestruction of the plane and the death of everyone on board theaircraft.

MURAD stated that he was going to pack Bibles in histravel bag in orde to draw attention away from the bags othercontents, as security personnel would be intrigued by a personwith a Muslim name carrying a Bible. MURAD also stated that hewas going to secrete the detonators in his shoes while wearing aChristian medal around his neck, and if the metal detector alarmsignaled as he passed through he would blame it on his jewelry.

MURAD advised that MAJID returned to apartment 603 onthe Tgt-h nf pgr;c»mheT-f and he, RAMZI^and MAJID went to a travelagent on Adriatico Street where RAMZI and MAJID made reservationsto go diving at Batangas beach. MURAD advised that MAJID may havemade the reservation in his real name. MURAD said that MAJID gaveMURAD a piece of paper from the booking agent and MAJID askedMURAD to return the following day to collect 2000 pesos from theagent. MURAD advised that he placed the paper in his pocketwithout reading the name. When they returned to the apartment,MAJID asked for the par>er to be returned and MURAD complied.MURAD stated that PAMZI informed him that the reason MAJID wantedthe paper returned was that MAJID realized he made thereservation in his real name and did not want MURAD to know histrue identity.

After making the diving reservations, MURAD advisedthat he and RAMZI went to a chemical company whose name he couldnot recall, and ordered some chemicals. On the following day, the30th of December, RAMZI and MURAD picked up the chemicals theypurchased the day before. MURAD advised that they purchased onesmall carton that contained one two and a half liter bottle ofsulfuric acid, and two big cartons which contained four bottleseach, two of nitric acid and two of sulfuric acid. MURAD statedthat RAMZI paid four or five thousand pesos, in cash, for thechemicals.

MURAD advised that ABDUL MAJID returned to the DonaJosefa apartments at about midnight &r\].2Jj&£V$j. MURAD stated"that MAJID wanted someone to accompany~~~h~Im to check his accountbalance at the Hong Kong bank in Makati. MURAD said that he wentwith MAJID, who told him, after checking the account, that the

FD-302a (Rev. ll-

2b_A-NY-252802

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD . On 4/12-13/95. P.,. 7

money.. MAJID was expecting, had not arrived yet. MURAD advised thathe is unaware of the origin of the money, nor does he know theamount MAJID expected. After leaving the bank, MURAD advised thathe returned to the Dona Josefa apartment and MAJID went home.

MURAD advised that on either the 28th or 29th ofDecember, he and RAMZI purchased the CASIO watches that we:needed for the timers at the Shangra La Mega Mall in Edsa in astore whose name he could not recall. MURAD stated that RAMZIpaid for the watches. MURAD stated that on 12/3J3/S4, RAMZIinstructed him how to modify the Casio watches into timers forthe explosives. MURAD advised that on that afternoon he made twoof the timers, which took about two hours each to construct.

MURAD stated that MAJID was present at the apartment onDecember 30th when he and RAMZI returned from picking up thechemicals they ordered the day befo"re. MURAD advised that MAJIDstayed with them that evening. MURAD stated that they neverdiscussed their bombing plans in the presence of MAJID, but MURADbelieved that MAJID must have known something was planned sinceMAJID was aware of the chemicals and the electronic components inthe apartment. MURAD stated that MAJID stayed that night at theapartment because MAJID and RAMZI were going diving and wereleaving early in the morning on 12/31/94. After MAJID and RAMZIdeparted on 12/31, MURAD stated that he did some shopping, ate alate lunch and in the evening he constructed two additionaltimers. MURAD advised that RAMZI returned to the Dona Josefaapartment at about lj_00^pm on l/i/95, advising him that MAJID hadstayed behind to continue diving.

MURAD advised that ojx>l/2/95 he and RAMZI purchasedwires, clips and batteries at the SM Store, and began to put someof the electronic components of the explosives together. MURADadvised that he and RAMZI did not meet anyone the week leading upto "black Friday", 1/6/95, the day he was arrested. MURAD saidthat 'the last time he saw MAJID was on 12/31/94, and believedthat MAJID was" still diving at the time of his arrest.

The week before he was arrested, MURAD advised that heand RAMZI purchased some heaters (stove top burners),"bigtimers", batteries, wires, Bibles, and Catholic jewelry. MURADadvised that RAMZI told him that he was going t-n take one burnerand_±imer to visit the ABU SAYYAF group in the_sguth of thePhi1ippines^ to instruct them on how to mix "chemicals, and use

FD-302» (Rev. 11-15-S3)

^.^oA-NY-252802

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD , On 4/12-13/95. Page 8

timing devices and watches for explosives. MURAD said that RAMZIwas going to bring one timer and burner to Algeria, Egypt, andFrance, to teach Muslims in those areas how to construct bombs.MURAD stated that RAMZI had visited the ABU SAYYAF group^oncebefore in Mindaneo durincf He early part of 1994. MURAD statedtfiat RAMZI told Kim—that the ABU SAYYAF group would be difficultto instruct in explosives since their main interest is in the useof firearms.

MURAD advised that he and RAMZI woke up about noon onFriday, 1/6/95, went out for lunch, and did some shopping at theHarrison Plaza Kail. MURAD stated that they did not meet anyonethat day. MURAD advised that late in the evening of 1/6/95, RAMZIwas burning some chemicals that were no longer needed. MURAD saidthat RAMZI became careless, and the burning began to produce moresmoke than he expected. The smoke was very dense so they openedthe front door and windows to allow the smoke out of theapartment while he and RAMZI exited the apartment to wait for thesmoke to dissipate. MURAD said that the smoke caused someneighbors to contact the fire department because they believedthere was a fire in the apartment. MURAD stated that he escortedthe fire department to the apartment to show them that there wasno fire. After observing the inside of the apartment the firedepartment, was satisfied that there was no current danger anddeparted. MURAD advised that RAMZI had departed the area when thefire department arrived. Subsequent to the departure of the firedepartment, the police j sjpojjideof'to the apartment. MURAD advisedthat he let the police Tnto the apartment and assured them thatthere was no problem. The officer informed MURAD that he wantedMURAD to come down to the police station for questioning. MURADsaid that he informed the officer that this was his friend'sapartment and that he would try and contact his friend. Theofficer told MURAD to come to the station that night after hefound his friend.

MURAD advised that he went__back to the apartment andcalled^RAMZI on RAMZI's cellular telephone. RAMZI told him thathe was at the 7-11 "store on Mabini street. MURAD advised that hewent to the 7-11 store were he met RAM2JI and OSAMA ASMURAI, whoMURAD claims he had not seen in Manila previously.The three thenproceeded to a Kareoke bar were MURAD explained to RAMZI that thepolice wanted MURAD to go to the station for questioning. MURADstated that RAMZI__tgld^ MURAD to give him his pagspjorts and to gobackto the apartment and retrieve the computer. MURAD gave RAMZI

FD-302* (Rev. 11-15-83)

2_JA-NY-252802

ContinuaUon of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD . On 4/12-13/95. Page 9

his passports and when he_geturned to the Dona Josefa apartmentshe was apprehended by^the police in the lobby. MURAD stated thathe tried to escapeHEuT fell dowri on the sidewalk just outside theapartment complex. MURAD stated that he was taken to the policestation for about 30 minutes, then was taken back to apartment603. MURAD advised that the police discovered in the apartment,the computer, the cvemica,ls, electronic components. one completedp-ipe_bsjmband three_p_iEes that were not yet armed. MURAD was thentaken back to the police station by the police.

MURAD advised that after the bombs exploded on theairlines, credit would be given to the LIBERATION ARMY. MURADadvised that the LIBERATION ARMY consisted of only him and RAMZI.MURAD said that RAMZI made up the name in order to make peoplebelieve that the LIBERATION ARMY was a large group of committedterrorists.

MURAD advised that RAMZI told him in August of_19_9Jeffing t<that he (RAMZI) would be traveTlina to the United States to

commit ajbgmbimg. MURAD advised that when the bomb exploded atth<T~World Trade Center he was certain that RAMZI was the personresponsible. MURAD advised that he and RAMZI would use the code "A1168 of the Liberation Army" when claiming responsibility forterrorist acts. MURAD stated that the "A" was for ABDUL, thetrue first name of both MURAD and RAMZI, the first Ml"(one)represented the day he (MURAD) was born 4/1/68, the second"l"(one) was arbitrary, and the "6_8J is the year that oth he andRAMZI were born. MURAD advised that^when the fire bomb explodedin the New_J£ojrk City subway in December_of__iaSL4, RAMZI called himand instructedHIm~rto^telephone various Embassies claiming thatthe LIBERATION ARMY A1168 was responsible. MURAD claimed that hecontacted the Omani Embassy in Islamabad, the American Embassy inIslamabad, and the American Consulate in Karachi.

MURAD advised that RAMZI told him upon his arrival tothe Philippines on December 26r 1994f that he had placed a bombearlier that month on~€he Philippines Airlines flight thattravels from Manila to Tokyois Narita Airport, with a stopover inQebu, Philippines. MURAD stated that RAMZI told him that he onlyused a small quantity of explosives as he was testing the timersand the explosive to insure that it operated as he expected.MURAD advised that RAMZI would remove the contents of a pillcapsule and replace it with what MURAD believed to be theexplosive "acetone broxide". When purchasing tickets for the

FD-3021 (Rev. 11-15-83)

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD _ . On 4/12-13/95. Plge _ 10_

flight, RAMZI utilized an unknown Italian name which he obtainedfrom the Atlas software stored on his computer. MURAD claims thatRAMZI called him to go to the Philippines after the PhilippineAirline explosion.

MURAD advised that after the World Trade Center bombingRAMZI travelled to Karachi, Pakistan, were they met on numerousoccasions. MURAD stated that RAMZI told him of his involvement inthe World Trade Center explosion. MURAD said that he never metAHMED AJAJ and only knows that he entered the United States withRAMZI and was arrested. MURAD stated that RAMZI "used" the otherindividuals that were involved in -he Trade Center bobbing. MURADstated that RAMZI told him that he resided with MOHAMMAD SALAMEHin New Jersey and he, SALAMEH, ABDUL RAHMAN YASIN, and aJordanian^ were involved the "day "of the explosion. MURAD said thathe was unsure of tHe Jordanian ' s name but believed it might besomething like ISAM, and believes that he has green eyes andlight hair. J"

MURAD was shown photos of various individuals todetermine whether he could make identifications. MURAD identifiedphoto number one as an individual by the name of HABIBA, aBalouchi, from Pakistan, who he never met in the Philippines.MURAD said that the only time he met HABIBA was at RAMZI 'sbrother's house, ABDUL MONEEM, in Quetta, in either September orOctober of 1994. MURAD said that RAMZI never spoke about HABIBA.

Photo number two was identified by MURAJ) as OSAMAASURMAI . MURAD said that the Philippine police told him that theman 'V name was WALI KHAN AMIN SHAH, but MURAD stated that henever knew him by that name. MURAD advised that OSAMA a was aSaudi who allegedly 1 iv*^ JCL Medina. Saudi Arabia. MURAD advisedthat he believes that OSAMA has a brother by the name SAKER.MURAD stated that the first time that he met OSAMA was in ABDULMAJID's apartment in Karachi, Pakistan in August of 1994. MURADaavised that the ne>rt tiiqerhe encountered OSAMA was the day hewas arrested, 1/7/957 at the 7-11 store in Manila, in the companyof RAMZI. MURAD said that OSAMA was angry at the Philippinegovernment because they arrested his friend and turned him overto United States authorities. MURAD said that he believed thatOSAMA arrived from Islamabad on 1/6/95. ^

r~ "

MURAD was shown photo number three and identified theindividual as ABDUL MONEEM, the brother of RAMZI, who lives in

FD-302a (Rev. 11-15-83)

2~dA-NY-252802

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD . On 4/12-13/95. P.ge 11_

Quetta, Pakistan. MURAD advised that he never saw MONEEM in thePhilippines. MURAD described Moneem as approximately 31 yearsold, married, with 3 or 4 children, and is an Arabic teacher inQuetta.

MURAD identified photo number four as RAMZI's brotherin law ABDUL SAMAD, who is married to one of RAMZI's sisters, andis currently living in IRAN.

MURAD advised that RAMZI planned to transport some ofthe chemicals and cotton back to Karachi after they completedtheir boding of the U.S. airlines. MURAD said that RAMZI wasgoing to make additional nitrocellulose to commit further acts inthe name of his religion. MURAD also advised that the pipe bombsdiscovered in the apartment at the Dona Josefa were going to beused in an attempt to take the life of Pope John Paul. MURADadvised that RAMZI was going to^>lant the bomtos on~~£he Pope'stravel route in Manila, while using a remote control device toinitiate the explosives. MURAD stated that he was opposed to anyattempt on the life of Pope John Paul because Islamic law forbidsthe killing of a holy man. MURAD claims that RAMZI was uncertainas to whether the pipe bombs would kill Pope John Paul, but wascertain that it would cause enough commotion to be newsworthy.RAMZI was going to credit the attempt on the life of Pope JohnPaul__ta_jthe ABU^AYlTAF group in an attempt to enhance theirstature.' *

MURAD advised that he was born on 4/1/68 in Kuwait, andhis full name is ABDUL HAKIM ALI HASHIM MURAD. MURAD said thathis parents still live in Sabahiya, Kuwait. MURAD said that hisparents are both Balouchi, from Pakistani, although his mother hasOMANI citizenshipr MURAD's family and RAMZI's family were| acquaintances since both families are Balouchi, and lived in[Kuwait at the same time. MURAD stated that he attended aPakistani school when he was very young and then went to theAumal- Kura Abu Halifa elementary school in the Ahmadi districtof Kuwait. MURAD advised that he then enrolled at the KhalifaTalal Al - Jiry school were he graduated but never attended anycollege or university.

MURAD advised that he first met RAMZI in a Moscrue inFahaheel City in Kuwait in either 1983 or 1984. MURAD advisedthat he did not stay in frequent contact with RAMZI while RAMZIattended school in the United Kingdom. MURAD stated that RAMZI is

FD-302* (Rev. 11-15--S3)

2u5A-NY-252802

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD _ . On 4/12-13/95. Ptge _ 12_

married with two daughters, and believes that they reside in theIranian section of Baluchistan. MURAD advised that RAMZI had agirlfriend in the Philippines who sold perfume at the HarrisonPlaza Mall.

MURAD advised that when the Philippine National Policequestioned him they tape recorded the interviews. MURAD advisedthat he does not know MOHAMMAD JAMAL KHALIFA and heard the namefor the first time when it was mentioned to him by the PhilippinePolice. MURAD advised that although he never met OSAMA BEN LADINhe is familiar with the name. MURAD advised that RAMZI told himthat he met ti*e blind Sheik, OMAR ABDEL RAHMAN, on_one occasionat a Mosque in Jersey City, New Jersey. MURAD/s^tated^havt he wastold by SAMZI^that neither Sheik_RAHMAN nor <jrrnnT(g J LT hfad anyinvolvement with the World TrSHe Center bombing. MURAc advisedthat he did not believe that RAMZI was associated—with anyparticular group. MURAD advised that he does not know TARIQ RANAbut had heard the name on one occasion from either RAMZI or thePhilippine National Police. MURAD also advised that he does notknow anyone by the name of SALEM ALI or SHEIK MOHAMMAD.

MURAD advised that RAMZI has a friend, who he (MURAD)also knows, by the name of ABDUL SHAKOOR, who was also born ir\. MURAD stated that RAMZI met SHAKOOR in Afghanistan in

either 1991 or 1992, while RAMZI was taking six months oftraining. MURAD stated that SHAKOOR travelled to

Afghanistan and attended approximately two weeks of trainingbefore departing. MURAD stated that SHAKOOR was a very violentindividual and believed in killing indiscriminately on behalf ofhis religion, even if it resulted in the deaths of Muslims. MURADstated that RAMZI would never kill a brother Muslim, and theirdifferent views on fighting for their cause resulted in astrained relationship.

As for any future terrorist plans, MURAD advised thathe and RAMZI discussed the possibility of bombing a nuclearfacility in the United States. They also discussed additionalattacks on American airline carriers such as United and NorthwestAirlines. MURAD stated that RAMZI wanted to bomb El-Al Airlinesbut believed that security would be too difficult to penetrate.The underlying reason for these attacks would be to make thepeople of the U.S., and their government, "suffer" for theirsupport of Israel. MURAD stated that America should remainneutral regarding the problems of the Middle East. MURAD advised

FD-302» (Rev. 11-15-83)

ko5A-NY-252802

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD . on 4/12-13/95. P.ge 13

that RAMZI wanted to return to the United States in the future tobomb the World Trade Center a second time.

MURAD gave the following information regarding hisfamily;

Mother: AMINA AHMADFather: ALI HASHIM Working in Kuwait Petroleum Company.

Parents live in Sabahiya B/l St. 17 HN 828 Kuwait tel:3615585.

Sisters: MAJIDA Single, living in Kuwait, 28 years old.FARIDA Married living in Ajman City, U.A.E, 23

years old.MANAL Living in Kuwait, 10 years old.

Brothers: AHMAD Deceased.ANWAR Single, living in U.A.E, 25 years old.

ANWAR is working in the Customs office inAbu Dhabi, U.A.E.

KHALID Single living in the United States 22 yearsold. MURAD advised that KHALID was studyingin Kentucky but is currently residing '.-:ithhis brother's Drother-in-law in D.C., whosename is ABDUL KHALIQ who is studyingcomputer engineering at GeorgetownUniversity.

MOHAMMAD Living in Kuwait, 8 years old.ADEL Living in Kuwait, 3 years old.

MURAD advised that he has a good friend, KHALID HASSAN,a Palestinian, who lives and studies dentistry in Cebu,Philippines. MURAD advised that HASSAN has no connections withRAMZI and HASSAN was unaware of MURAD presence in thePhilippines.

At this time the aircraft landed in Alaska forrefueling.

MURAD advised that on 11/19/91 he left DUBAI andtravelled to London, England for a week of sightseeing. MURADstated that prior to going to England, he was in Dubai obtaininghis private pilots license at the Emirates Flying School. MURAD

FD-302* (Rev. 11-15 3)

2o5A-NY-252802

Continu.tioQofFD-302of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD . Oa 4/12-13/95. P>ge 14

/advised that his friend, NASIR ALI MUBAREK, who also attended theEmirates Flying School, had arrived in London a couple of daysprior to MURAD. MURAD stated that he travelled on his Pakistanipassport in which he obtained a single entry, 6 month visa forthe United Kingdom at the U.K. Consulate in Dubai. MURAD statedthat they stayed in Oxford with a woman, whose name he does notrecall, who MUBARL^ had met on a previous trip to England. MURADsaid that MUBAREK has relatives in Birmingham, England, andfurther advised that MUBAREK does not know RAMZI. ,

After approximately one week, they departed London andproceeded to the United States. MURAD said that MUBAREK flew toSan Antonio, Texas while he travelled first to Washington, D.C.,on TWA. "MURAD stated that he stayed with his brothers brother-in-law, ABDUL KHALIQ, for a few days then proceeded to San Antonio,also on TWA. MURAD advised that he and MUBAREK were scheduled,per their immigration I-20s, to attend school at the Alpha TangoFlying School at Berne Stages, Texas. MURAD advised that heobtained a U.S. visa in Dubai that was valid for one or twoyears. MURAD advised that his father financed his airfare,tuition for the flying school, and living expenses while stayingin the Unites States.

MURAD advised that he obtained his initial Pakistanipassport in 1987 from the Pakistani Embassy in Kuwait. MURADstated that since the pages in the passport were exhausted, heobtained another Pakistani passport at the Consulate in Dubai.When this passport became full with visa's and stamps, heobtained a third passport in 1994 from the Consulate in Dubai.Since none of the passports expired, MURAD advised that hetravelled with all three. MURAD stated that he has no additionalpassports in other names or from other countries.

MURAD advised that he and MUBAREK attended the AlphaTango School because their chief instructor at the EmiratesFlying School, RIAZ AHMED, in Dubai, had also attended AlphaTango. MURAD advised that many Pakistani's were enrolled at theAlpha Tango School. One of the instructors at Alpha Tango was aSudanese by the name of BAHA ELDIN. MURAD stated that the chiefpilot, HAMED AFZL, arranged for an apartment for MURAD andMUBAREK in San Antonio. MURAD stated that they did not visit anyMosque's in San Antonio and they departed after approximately twoweeks because they were unhappy with the facilities at AlphaTango.

FD-302* (Rev. Il-15r83)

2boA-NY-252802

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD _ . On 4/12-13/95. p.ge _ 15_

MURAD advised that he and MUBAREK purchased a Hyundaiautomobile in San Antonio, Texas, and travelled to the RichmoreFlying School, located near Albany, New York. MURAD stated thatthey drove through New York City and stopped only to purchase amap, and then continued on to the Richmore School. MURADestimates that it took them three days to drive from San Antonio,Texas, to Albany, New York. MURAD stated that a RICHARD LNL wasin charge at the Richmore Flying School which they only attendedfor approximately two months.

MURAD advised that he departed Richmore to return toSan Antonio's Alpha Tango School because the weather in Albanywas much too cold. MURAD advised that he attended the Richmoreschool in January and February of 1992, after which time hedeparted on TWA, to San Antonio, with MUBAREK remaining at theRichmore School. MURAD said that he attended the Alpha Tango

i School for the months of March and April, 1992, and stayed withtwo Pakistani's, RAGIB LNU and NASER LNU, and one Saudi, HASSANMUBAREK (no relation to NASER) . After about two months at theAlpha Tango School he returned to Richmore, first stopping inWashington D.C. to visit with ABDUL KHALIQ for a few days. MURADadvised that MUBAREK met him in Washington D.C., and theyproceeded to the Richmore School.

MURAD stated that they attended the Richmore School forabout two weeks and departed for North Carolina to attend theCoastal Aviation School in Newburgh, N.C., where they resided.MURAD said that they arrived in North Carolina the end of May orbeginning of June, 1992. MURAD advised that MUBAREK obtained hislicense prior to MURAD, then returned to the Richmore School,while MURAD received his certification on 6/6/92. After MURADobtained his license MUBAREK returned to North Carolina in orderto accompany MURAD to the Richmore School. Prior to returning tothe Richmore School, MURAD and MUBAREK visited New York City forone evening. Upon arriving at the Richmore School they met amutual friend of theirs, ABDULLAH YOUSEF, who they knew from theEmirates School in the U.A.E. After about a week in Richmore, allthree proceeded by automobile to California.

In June, 1992, all three attended the CaliforniaAeronautics School in Red Bluff, California, which is locatedthree hours north of San Francisco. Both MURAD and MUBAREK wereattempting to obtain an instructor rating at the CaliforniaAeronautics School. MURAD said that he paid $1,300 to attend the

FD-302* (Rev. 11-15-83)

2v._»A-NY-252802

Coatinuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD . On 4/12-13/95. P.ge

school, but he departed after two weeks, without completing thecourse. While at Red Bluff, MURAD stayed with an Italianindividual known only as MAX, and a Vietnamese individual withAmerican citizenship who MURAD only knew as HEYO (ph) . MURADadvised that he alone returned to Dubai after leaving California.

MURAD strted that before reaching Dubai he stayed withan aunt, GUL BIBY, and uncle, SAADI MOHAMMAD for three days inBahrain. MURAD advised that he then returned to Dubai and residedwith his uncle for two months. MURAD stated that he frequentlytraveled throughout the Gulf States in an attempt to findemployment as a pilot. MURAD advised that he obtained a U.S. visain fflis'Tfi+t Oman in November of 1992., that was.February -Qf__19_93. MURAD advised that he wanted to return toCalifornia to complete his instructor qualifications since healready paid for the course. MURAD stated that he decided not toreturn to the U.S. but rather travelled to Karachi in an attemptto obtain employment with Pakistani International Airlines. MURADadvised that he stayed in Karachi from November, 1992 untilApril, 1993.

MURAD stated that RAMZI_£ontaqted him while he was inDubajL-Jjx ither July or Auqus€T"l'992 . MURAD advised that RAMZIstated that lie obtained "chocolate training", when MURADexplained that he did not understand, RAMZI replied "boom". MURADsaid he understood this to mean that RAMZI had obtained sometraining in explosives. MURAD said that RAMZI stated he was goigqto the United States to find employment, however he was awareRAMZ~I~~was going to tne states to commit a bombing. MURAD advisedthat RAMZI did not say when he was planning this travel.

MURAD stated that when he was in Karachi from November1992 to April 1993, he resided with an individual named ABDULGHANY, who is unknown to RAMZI. MURAD advised that he obtained aflying license in Karachi from the Pakistan Civil Aviation, filenumber in Karachi 3815, and license number 1929.

MURAD said that he pgj* PAMTiT munerous times in Karachiin Ayr.il, 19 9 JL* at which time RAMZI advised him of his 'participation in the World Trade c«»nt-..«»r bombing. MURAD said thatRAMZI was staying at the~~Embassy Hotel ~in Karachi during thistime, and RAMZI felt secure.

FD-302I (Rev. 11-15-83)

_o5A-NY-252802

Continuation of FD-302 of ABDUL HAKIM MURAD . On 4/12-13/95, p.ge 17_

MURAD stated that he departed Karachi in May of 1993and travelled between Dubai and Kuwait, returning to Karachi inAugust, 1993, where he again met with RAMZI. RAMZI stayed for acouple of weeks at the Lighthouse Naddi Tower with MURAD, wherehe had an accident cleaning lead azide from a container whichresulted in a serious injury. MURAD stated that RAMZI spent apart of July, and ir.ist of August, in the hospital in Karachi.MURAD said that he left Karachi in mid August to attend thePeshawar Flying School, were he resided. MURAD advised that mostof the students enrolled in this school originated from theSudan. MURAD stated that attended the Peshawar School for 22 dayswhere he obtained his instructor rating. MURAD then returned toKarachi to apply for a pilot position at Pakistani InternationalAirlines.

While in Karachi, MURAD resided at the home of hisfriend ABDUL GHANY, House Number Y5, Phase 6, Khayabanshabaz.MURAD stated that RAMZI's brother, ABDUL KARIM MAHMOUD ABDULKARIM advised him that RAMZI had returned to theirBarentsresidence in Iranshar, Iran, to continue his recuperation. MURADsaTd~~ ERaL he bLayeU in Karachi until November of 1993.

,<ft MURAD stated that he left Karachi at the end of.Noyejnhpr. and proceeded to Dubai were he remaTned until May, 19J?4.MURAD stated that he had no*"~contact with RAMZI during this timeand believed that RAMZI was still recuperating in Iran. MURADadvised that he was attempting to convert his pilots license toqualify in Dubai, which was a complicated process. MURAD advisedthat he travelled to Kuwait in June, 1994, to visit with hisfamily, after which he returned to Dubai. In August, 1994, MURADadvised that he went to Karachi and resided with ABDUL KARIM,where he remained there for 15 days.

MURAD stated that RAMZIcame frcjn Manila to Karachi inAugust^ 1994. and stayed at tlfeTimbassy Hotel. MURAD explainedthat RAMZI did not always get along well with ABDUL KARIM andwould usually stay at the Embassy Hotel when in Karachi. MURADadvised that RAMZI told him that he travelled around SoutheastAsia, i.e. Hong Kong, Singapore, and the Philippines, to find apermanent residence because he believed the FBI was activelysearching for him in Karachi. MURAD said that RAMZI concludedthat the Manila area was acceptable because the cost of living isreasonable.

FD-302« (Rev. ll-15-«3)

2o5A-NY-252802

Continuation o f FD-302 o f ABDUL HAKIM M U R A D . On 4/12-13/95. p.ge 1 8

While in Karachi, MURAD advised that RAMZI told him ofhis desire to bomb unnamed American airlines. MURAD also saidthat RAMZI wanted to travel to Lahore, Pakistan, to train MURADin the use of explosives, timers, and Casio watche modificationsMURAD said that RAMZI travelled to Lahore a couple of days priorand they stayed in Lahore for 18 days of training. Aftercompleting the training, MURAD returned to Karachi and Youseftravelled to Quetta to visit his brother. MURAD said that heremained in Karachi for about two weeks, then returned to Dubaiwhere RAMZI contacted him in December 1994 requesting MURAD totravel to the Philippines. MURAD advised that when RAMZI askedhim to go come to the Philippines /ie was fully aware that"something was planned".

MURAD advised that RAMZI spoke to him on one occasionabout attacking the U.S. Consulate in Karachi with a "rocket"that RAMZI was going to construct. MURAD explained that RAMZIdrew a diagram of this rocket and advised that it would be firedfrom a park adjacent to a church located across the street fromthe Consulate. RAMZI never explained how the rocket was going tobe fired or when he planned on committing the attack. MURAD saidthat RAMZI gave no particular reason the U.S. Consulate was thetarget, but conjectured that it was convenient since RAMZI «;penta substantial amount of time in Karachi.

MURAD advised that he never encountered, nor does heknow anything about, MIR AHMED KANSI. MURAD said that RAMZI neverspoke of KANZI and he is unaware whether RAMZI ever had contactwith KANSI. MURAD also claimed that he did not know who wasresponsible for the shooting of jtwo Americans in Karachi gn^3/1/95 and that he oTily learnedT of the^ittack from the "'"Philippine National Police.