MCDERMOTT, WILL & EMERY

Pmtt-msnal CsnwatvHt227 West Monroe StreetChicago. IL bOb06-?0%312-372-2000Facsimile 312-W4-2OW

Shell J. BleiweissAttorney at Law312-984-3664

CfccagoLos AngelesMiamiNewport BeachNew YorkTallinn (Estonia)Vilnius (Lithuania)Washington, D.C.

i Independent)LondonParis

January 10, 1995

Richard Boice, P.E.Remedial Project ManagerRemedial and Enforcement Response BranchU.S. Environmental Protection Agency77 West JacksonMail HSRL-6JChicago, IL 60604

Re: William Shulski Deposition September 7. 1993

Dear Rich:

As discussed, enclosed is one copy, in minuscriptformat, of William Shulski's deposition transcript taken in theYeoman Creek/Edwards Field private cost recovery/contributionlawsuit. The highlighted testimony at pages 101-103 demonstratesthat CMC's trash went to the Yeoman Creek Landfill at times, butnever went to the Edwards Field Landfill.

Please call if you have any questions or comments.

Very truly yours,

Shell J. Bleiweiss

SJB/ihEnclosure

cc: M. Flowers, Esq.L. Keller

11 IN THE UNTTED STATES DISTRICT

COURT2 NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS3 EASTERN DIVISION4 WAUKEGAN COMMUNITY SCHOOL j5 DISTRICT NO. 60. et a l . . )6 Plaintiffs. >7 v. )Case No. 92 C 75928 ABBOTT LABORATORIES, et al.. tfudg*

Leineoweber9 Defendants. )Magistraie Judge Rosemond101112 The deposition of WILLIAM V

SHULSKI.13 called as a witness berein for

examination, taken14 pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil

Procedure of15 the Untied Slates District Courts

pertaining to the16 taking of depositions, taken before

MELANIE JAKUS.17 a Notary Public within and for the County

of18 DuPage. State of Illinois, and a Certified19 Shorthand Reporter of said state, at Suite

201.30120 West Washington Street. Waukegan.

Illinois, on the21 7th day of September. A.D. 1993. al 9:45

a.m.222324

1 PRESENT:2 LATHROP & NORQUIST3 (2600 Mutual BeneBt Life Building,4 2345 Grand Avenue. Suite 2500,5 Kansas City. Missouri 64108-2684), by:6 MR. WILLIAM G. BECK.7 appeared on behalf of Browning-Ferns8 Industries of Illinois. Inc.:9 SCHIFF HARDIN & WATTE.10 (7200 Sears Tower.11 Chicago. Illinois 60606). by:12 MR. GABRIEL M. RODRIGUEZ.13 appeared on behalf of14 Abbon Laboratories:15 LAWRENCE. KAMIN. SAUNDERS &

UHLENHOP.16(208 South LaSalle Street. Suite 1750.17 Chicago. Illinois 60604-1188). by:18 MR. DAVID E. MUSCHLER.19 appeared on behalf of20 Coral International:21222324

1 PRESENT: (Continued)2 McDERMOTT WILL & EMERY,3 (227 West Monrae Sweet4 Chicago. Illinois 60606-5096). by:5 MR. SHELL J. BLETWEISS.6 -and-7 OUTBOARD MARINE CORPORATION,

8 (100 Sea-Horae Drive.9 VVaukeaan. Illinois 60085). by:10 MR. DALE I V1TALE.11 appeared on behalf of12 Outboard Marine Corporation:13 POPE & JOHN. LTD..14 (300 South \Vacker Drive. Suite 4200.15 Chicago. Illinois 60606). by:16 MR. JOSEPH STRUBBE. '17 appeared on behalf of18 Jensen Disposal Service:19 O'CONNELL & RYAN.20(135 South LaSalle Street. Suite 4005.21 Chicago. Illinois 60603). by:22 MR. CHARLES J. RYAN. JR..23 appeared on behalf of24 The Dexter Corporation:

1 PRESENT: (Continued)2 DICKINSON. WRIGHT. MOON. VAN

DUSEN & FREEMAN.3 (225 West Washington Street. Suite 400.4 Chicago. Illinois 60606-3418). by:5 MR. DANIEL J. SHERIDAN.6 appeared on behalf of Goodyear7 Tire i Rubber.8 DIVER. GRACH. QUADE & MASINI.9 ( 1 1 1 North County Street.10 Waukegan. Illinois 60085). by:11 MS. HEIDI J. AAVANG.12 appeared on behalf of the13 City of Waukegan:14 McKENNA STORER ROWE WHITE &

FARRUG,15 (200 North LaSalle Street.16 Chicago, Illinois 60601-1083). by:17 MR. MICHAEL J. MAKER.18 appeared on behalf of19 William V Shuliki and Emma Shulski.2Q2122 REPORTED BY: MELANIE JAKUS.

C.SR.2324

1 I N D E X2 WITNESS EXAMINATION FURTHER

EXAM3 WILLIAM V SHULSKI4 By Mr. Muschler 6 565 By Mr. RodnguezSl 1456 By Mr. Beck 577 By Mr. Bleiweiss 908910111 2 E X H I B I T S13 NUMBER MARKED FOR ID14 W. Shulski Deposition Exhibit15 No. 27 7116 No. 28 871718192021222324

Page 6[I] (WHEREUPON, the witness wasduly [2] sworn.)[3]'MR. MUSCHLER: Let therecord show that this [4] is thedeposition of Mr. William Shulskitaken [5] pursuant to the FederalRules of Civil Procedure [6] andpursuant to Subpoena and Notice.[7] WILLIAM V SHULSKI. [8]called as a witness herein, havingbeen first duly [9] sworn, wasexamined and testified as follows:[10] EXAMINATION[II] BY MR. MUSCHLER:[12] Q: Now, Mr. Shulski. I'mgoing to start out [13] asking yousome questions this morning. Thislady [14] is going to write down myquestions. She's going [15] to writedown your answers. [16] If you don'thear me or understand the [ 17]question, would you stop me and jusiask me to [18] repeat the question,please?[19] A: Okay.[20] Q: Okay. And if you get tiredor if there [21] is a time that youwould like a break, you can [22]either mention that to your attorneyor just [23] mention it to me and wewill take a break. [24] Do youunderstand that?Page 7[1] A: Yes.[2] Q: Would you state your fullname for the [3] record, please?[4] A: William V. Shulski.[5] Q: What is your home address.Mr. Shulski?[6] A: .[7] Q: [8] A: Kenosha.[9] Q: And that's in Wisconsin.[10] A: Yes.[ 11 ] Q: Are you married, Mr.Shulski?

Notes:

[12] A: Yes.[13] Q: What is your wife's name?[14] A: Emma.[15] Q: How long have you beenmarried?[16] A: 52 yean.[17] Q: Congratulations. [18] Areyou familiar with a company, sir, by[19] the name of Century Metals,Inc.?[20] A: Yes.[21] Q: Now, what is the correctname of the [22] company? Is itCentury Metals, Inc.?[23] A: Century Metal, I think,Incorporated, [24] yes.Page 8[I] Q: How do you know about thatcompany?[2] A: Well, I founded it.[3] Q: When did you found it?[4] A: I don't remember.[5] Q: Do you rememberapproximately how long [6] ago itwould have been?[7] A: Well, in the early fifties.[8] Q: Okay. Now, you indicatedthat you [9] founded that company, isthat correct?[10] A: Yes. I started it.[II] Q: You started it. [12] Whatpositions did you hold with that [13]company?[14] A: I owned it all.[15] Q: Now, you owned the stock ofthe [16] company.[17] A: Yes. I was the onlystockholder.[18] Q: Okay. Did your wife --[19] A: Well, we were notincorporated until, [20] oh, maybesomewhere in the early sixties.Before [21] it wa» just Century MetalCompany.[22] Q: Okay.[23] A: In other words, that's just thename I [24] picked out of the air.

Page 9[1] Q: Okay. It's a good name.[2] A: Yes.[3] Q: Did you occupy anypositions? [4] Were you an officer ofthat company?[5] A: Yes. I was the owner, theoperator, the [6] employee. Youname it.[7] Q: Okay. Did your wife have anypositions [8] with the company?[9] A: No.[10] Q: Did your wife do any workfor the [11] company?[12] A: Once in a while, if I askedher to, [13] she'd come and pick meup and this and that, but [14] that'sabout it.[15] Q: Okay. Can you tell us whatCentury [16] Metal did? What wasthe nature of the business?[17] A: We were primarily in thepaper business.[18] Q: Now, would you tell us whatyou mean by [19] in the paperbusiness"?[20] A: Well, I'd go around all thedifferent [21] industrial areas and allthe city stores and [22] everythingelse and pick up paper, whatever kindof [23] paper it is.[24] Q: What would you do with thatpaper?_______________Page 10[1] A: We would bring it back, sonit, bale it [2] and ship it out, sell it.[3] Q: Did you have certaincustomers that you [4] did this for?[5] A: Oh, yes.[6] Q: Did you charge thosecustomers to [7] provide that service?[8] A: No.[9] Q: What was the arrangement?[10] A: The arrangement was thatthey would give [11] me the stuff.[12] Q: Okay. They would give youthe paper.

[13] A: Yes. In other words, by allthe [14] National Foods and A&Psand everything else, why, [15] wewould leave some kind of a containerthere, and [ 16] then they throw alltheir paper and stuff in it, [17] andthen I'd pick it up periodically andthat's [L8] it.[ L9] Q: Where was your businesslocated?[20] A: That was on the north side ofthe city [21] of Kenosha.[22] Q: Do you remember an address,sir?[23] A: No, I don't remember theaddress. No.[24] Q: Was it a business locationthat it wasPage 11[1] at or was it at somebody'sresidence?[2] A: No, no, no. There was abusiness [3] location, yes. I rentedthe property. Geez, I [4] don't evenremember who I rented it from.[5] Q: And this was on the north sideof [6] Kenosha, correct?[7] A: Yes.[8] Q: Did you have any Illinoiscustomers?[9] A: Yes. The only Illinoiscustomer I had [ 10] was JohnsonMotors.[ 11 ] Q: Okay. Where is JohnsonMotors located, [12] sir?[13] A: All I know is by the lake.[ 14] Q: Is it in Waukegan?[15] A: Oh, yes.[ 16] Q: And what did you do --excuse me. Let [17] me start overagain. [ 18] For how long wasJohnson Motors a [19] customer ofCentury Metal?[20] A: Oh, geez. I do not rememberwhen I [21] started there.[22] Q: Do you remember if it was acustomer [23] prior to the time thatyou were incorporated in the [24]

Notes:

early sixties?

Page 12[1] A: Oh, yes.[2] Q: Okay. So it would have beenin the late [3] fifties or early sixties.Is that fair to say?[4] A: Yes, it was somewhere aroundthere. I [5] really don't remember theexact dates.[6] Q: Can you describe for us whatyou did for [7] Johnson Motors?[8] A: Well, I went there everymorning. I [9] backed up with mytruck, and everything they had on[10] the dock I threw in the truck,which was more than [11] 90 percentpaper of different son --[12] Q: Okay.[13] A: paper and rags and, youknow, stuff [14] like that.[15] Q: Now, did you pick up justpaper from [16] Johnson Motors?[17] A: When I started, that's all Ipicked up.[18] Q: Okay. Did there come a timewhen you [19] picked up somethingother than paper from Johnson [20]Motors?[21] A: Yes. Later on, yes.[22] Q: About how much later, doyou recall, [23] sir?[24] A: No, I really don't.Page 13[1] Q: Was it, again, if I can take thetime [2] period prior to the time thatyou were incorporated [3] that youpicked up things other than paperfrom [4] Johnson Motors?[5] A: Yes, I think it was. Yes.[6] Q: So this would have been inthe early [7] sixties. Is that fair tosay?[8] A: Oh, that was earlier than that.Yes.[9] Q: Late fifties.[10] A: Yes, somewhere aroundthere.

[11] Q: Now, how did ii come aboutthat you [12] picked up things otherthanjusi paper from Johnson [13]Motors?[14] A: Well, at first there was nopayment. I [15] went there primarilyto pick up the paper and [ 16]whatever else I can get, brought itback home, [17] recycled it. That'sthe way I made my money. [ 18] Sothen eventually it came to a time[19] when they says they are goingto pay me if I would [20] takeeverything so I agreed to that. Sothey [21] started to pay me, and sothen I would -- the [22] bigger pan ofthe paper, you know, like all the [23]good corrugated and stuff I would puton a [24] different truck, see. Therest of the stuff,Page 14[I] whatever it was, that I didn'twant, they [2] instructed me that hasto go to the landfill.[3] Q: Okay. So you picked up then,if I can [4] describe it, two types ofmaterials from Johnson.[5] A: Yes.[6] Q: One was the paper that youwanted to [7] recycle.[8] A: Yes. There's stuff that -- inother [9] words, I wouldn't gothrough stuff like this like I [10]used to (indicating).[II] Q: And you took that back toyour office or [12] business.[13] A: Yes.[14] Q: In Kenosha.[15] A: Yes, we took it back toKenosha and [16] that's it.[17] Q: Okay. And then you hadsome other [18] materials thatJohnson asked you to pick up.[19] A: Yes.[20] Q: And you took that to -- youdescribed a [21] landfill, is thatcorrect?[22] A: Yes.

[23| Q: Can \ou ;ell us whichlandfill that was?[24] A: All I know is it was called attha t timePage IS[L] National Disposal.[2] Q: Okay. Was it located inWaukegan?[3] A: Yes. In other words, it waslocated [4] right where theMcDonald's restaurant is right now[5] right off of Lewis Avenue.[6] Q: Is the location east of LewisAvenue in [7] Waukegan?[8] A: Yes.[9] Q: For how long did you takematerials from [ 10] Johnson Motorsto the landfill in Waukegan east of[11] Lewis Avenue?[12] A: Well, I always did.Everything I got [13] from therewent to there.[ 14] Q: Okay. What period of timedid that [15] cover though, do yourecall, sir?[ 16] A: Oh. geez. I don't rememberwhen I [17] staned there. I wouldsay somewhere in the early [ 18]fifties or something.[19] Q: Did that extend through.again taking [20] the time when youincorporated, to a period of time [21]after you incorporated?[22] A: A certain period, yes.[23] Q: Okay. Would it be fair tosay that it [24) extended through thesixties?

Page 16[1] A: I'm lost.[2] Q: What I'm trying to determineis the [3] period of time that youpicked up materials from [4] JohnsonMotors and took it to the Waukeganlandfill [5] east of Lewis Avenue. [6]Now, you indicated, I think, that you[7] staned that in the late fifties orearly sixties. [8] Is that fair to say?

Notes:

[9] A: No, no. I took it there beforethat [10] from the early fifties untilthey -- probably to [11] the earlysixties.[12] Q: Okay. Was there ever a timethat you [13] took materials fromJohnson Motors to a location [ 14]other than this landfill in Waukeganeast of Lewis [15] Avenue?[16] A: No.[17] Q: So everything you took fromJohnson [18] Motors --[19] A: Went to the --[20] Q: went to that landfill.[21] A: Except this stuff that wasgoing--[22] Q: Tb your business.[23] A: Yes.[24] Q: All of that material wasrecycled -Page 17[I] A: Definitely.[2] Q: is that correct?[3] A: Yes.[4] Q: Can you tell us whatequipment was used [5] to pick upthe materials that went to thelandfill?[6] A: What materials was there?[7] Q: No. [8] What equipment wasused? What trucks?[9] A: I used a garbage truck.[10] Q: Whose garbage truck wasthat?[II] A: Mine.[ 12] Q: Is that a garbage truck thatyou drove [13] down from Kenosha?[14] A: Yes.[15] Q: 1) Johnson Motors.[16] A: Yes.[17] Q: Can you tell us where thatgarbage truck [18] was licensed?Was it licensed in Illinois or [19]licensed in Wisconsin?[20] A: It was licensed in Wisconsinand [21] Illinois.[22] Q: Okay. Where did you keepthat garbage [23] truck?

[24] A: That one there was kept onthe premisesPage 18[1] of Johnson Motors all the time.[2] Q: So you left it then at JohnsonMotors.[3] A: Yes.[4] Q: And only utilized that for thegarbage [5] or waste that you took tothe landfill, is that [6] correct?[7] A: Yes.[8] Q: That was not the truck thatyou drove [9] back and forth from --[10] A: Oh, no, no, no. That's thetruck that [11] stood right there.When I went from here, I went [12]with my semi. I picked up all thecorrugated.[13] Q: Yes.[14] A: That goes back. While I'mthere, I get [15] into the garbagetruck and I take everything that's [16]on the dock. That goes into thetruck that goes to [17] the landfill.Come back there and I load my semi[18] with whatever paper they have.That goes back to [19] Kenosha.[20] Q: Can you describe what typeof garbage [21] truck it was? [22]What was the size of the garbagetruck?[23] A: The size -- geez, I don'tknow. I think [24] it was 16 yard.I'm not sure now.P»ge 19————————————-[1] Q: During the period of time thatyou took [2] materials to the landfill,did you always use the [3] sametruck?[4] A: Yes.[5] Q: You never replaced it with adifferent [6] truck at any time.[7] A: Oh, yes. Up until then, '57 or'58 when [8] I got a new one, but it'sthe same thing.[9] Q: Okay. But what I'm trying todetermine [10] was--

[ L l | A: No. Wait a minute. Thefirst one was a [12] L3-yarder. That'sright. Then the second one I [ 13]bought was a 16-yarder.[14] Q-. Do you recall when youbought that [15] second truck?[16] A: Second truck I bought in '57,and I [17] started using it in '58 or'59 because it took me [18] that longto have a body put on it and this and[19] that.[20] Q: Okay. And that was thetruck that you [21] utilized solely forJohnson Motors, is that [22] correct?[23] A: Yes.[24] Q: Was there ever a time thatyou hadPage 20[1] another truck that you replacedthat second truck [2] with, anothertruck at Johnson Motors?[3] A: No. No. I only used twogarbage [4] trucks. The first one thatI had, the small one, [5] and thenwhen I bought the second one.[6] Q: How many times did youcome down to [7] Johnson Motors topick up paper and to take waste [8] tcthe landfill?[9] A: Every day.[10] Q: Now, by "every day." do youmean five [11] days a week?[12] A: Six days a week mostly.[13] Q: Okay. Can you tell me howmany trips to [14] the landfill youmade on each of (hose days?[15] A: I can't tell you. Wheneverthat garbage [16] truck was full, itwent out.[17] Q: Would it be fair to say thatyou made at [18] least one tnp oneach day to the landfill?[19] A: Oh, yes. I would say so.[20] Q: Were there days that youmade more than [21] one trip to thelandfill?[22] A: That's hard to say, but it'spossible.

Notes:

[23] Q: But you certainly remembermaking at [24] least one trip everyday.Page 21[1] A: At least once, yes. At leastonce a [2] day, yes.[3] Q: This was with both the13-yarder and the [4] 16-yarder.[5] A: No, no. I only had one truck.I [6] replaced the 13-yarder with the16.[7] Q: But during the period of timethat you [8] had the 13-yard truck andwere utilizing that, did [9] you makeone trip to the landfill with the13-yard [10] truck?[11] A: Yes.[12] Q: Do you recall whether therewas any time [13] that you mademore than one trip to the landfill on[14] any given day?[15] A: It's possible, but I doubt it.[16] Q: Okay. Would yourtestimony be the same [17] withregard to the 16 yard?[18] A: Same thing.[19] Q: Okay.[20] A: Just a greater capacity.That's all.[21] Q: When you went to thelandfill, say, with [22] the 16-yardtruck, would you say that the truckwas [23] full at that time?[24] A: Well, I wouldn't go unless itwas full.Page 22[1] Q: Well, if it wasn't full, wouldyou not [2] make a trip? Would youwait until the next day?[3] A: No. Td leave there and thenstart it [4] off tomorrow again.[5] Q: Okay. So your day would gothen that [6] you would pick thewaste up from Johnson Motors and[7] you would fill the truck.[8] A: Definitely.[9] Q: And go to the landfill, is that

correct?[10] A: Yes.[11] Q: And then you would comeback to Johnson [12] Motors andpick up some more waste.[13] A: That's right.[14] Q: If you did not fill the truck.would you [15] leave it at --[16] A: Then it would stay there,yes.[17] Q: And you would then, Ipresume, take it [18] the next day tothe landfill.[19] A: The next day or whenever itgets full.[20] Q: Okay. So every time youmade a trip to [21] the landfill --[22] A: That truck was full.[23] Q: Do you know who wasrunning the landfill [24] at thai time?Page 23[I] A: All I know was NationalDisposal.[2] Q: Mr. Shulski. can you tell uswho drove [3] the truck to thelandfill?[4] A: Me.[5] Q: Was there anybody else whowould have [6] driven the truck to thelandfill?[7] A: Yes. I had a part-timeemployee that [8] used to come inand help me out once in a while.[9] Q: Okay. What was his name,Mr. Shulski?[10] A: Jesse Franco.[II] Q: Do you know if he is still inthe area?[12] A: No. He died maybe aboutsix years ago [13] now.[14] Q: Do you know whetherJohnson Motors ever [15] had adriver that drove a garbage truck tothe [16] Waukegan landfill?[17] A: Well, when I first startedover there, [18] Johnson used totransport their own garbage. I was[19] taking only the corrugated.

They had their own [20] truck. Now.it wasn't a garbage truck, but. I [21]mean, it was an open truck.[22] Q: Okay.[23] A: And they used to haulthemselves.[24] Q: How do you know thatJohnson used toPage 24[ 1 ] haul the materials themselves tothe landfill?[2] A: Because I talked to the driverquite a [3] few times.[4] Q: Do you remember who thedriver was?[5] A: No, I don't.[6] Q: But, to your knowledge, thedriver was [7] an employee ofJohnson Motors.[8] A: Oh, yes. Yes. Even the truckwas [9] marked Johnson's, yes.[10] Q: Okay. This would have beenbefore you [11] started to take thematerials, is that correct?[12] A: Yes.[13] Q: Did Johnson Motors stillhave their own [14] truck, to yourknowledge, even after you started[15] taking--[16] A: Oh, yes.[17] Q: So they still had their truckthat they [18] had utilized before, isthat correct?[19] A: Yes.[20] Q: Now, do you know whetherduring the [21] period of time thatyou took materials to the [22]landfill Johnson Motors also wouldhave taken some [23] materials to thelandfill?[24] A: Well, I really don't knowbecause it'sPage 25[ 1 ] none of my business what theydo. They hired me.[2] Q: Do you know whether thedriver tor the [3] Johnson Motors

Notes:

truck who you indicated you talked[4] to before was still employed byJohnson Motors [5] after you startedto take materials?[6] A: I do not know.[7] Q: Okay. Do you have any idea- let me [8] strike that and start overagain. [9] When was the last timeyou saw that [ 10] driver for JohnsonMotors?[11] A: I really don't know.[12] Q: Do you have any ideawhether he is still [13] living in thearea today?[14] A: No. I didn't know him thatgood.[15] Q: Okay. Could you describefor us what [16] you picked up atJohnson Motors and took to the [17]landfill?[18] A: Well, I never questionedanything.[19] Q: I'm not asking that. I'm justasking [20] you to describe, first ofall, the containers that [21] you mayhave picked materials up from.[22] A: Well, they put all the stuffout on the [23] dock. Fd back upevery morning, and I put the [24]corrugated onto that one, and thenwhatever else isP»fe 26[1] there that I didn't want to take,any stuff like [2] this and all themixed stuff and everything went in[3] the garbage truck, and that's allthere is to it.[4] Q: Okay. Now, is it yourtestimony, sir, [5] that you wouldhave backed both trucks up to the [6]dock at the same time?[7] A: Definitely, yet.[8] Q: Okay. \buwoukJ have takensome [9] materials, the corrugatedand maybe other paper [10] items,and put them in your - was it a flatbed [11] truck?[12] A: Yes -- no, no. Just a regular

-- when I [13] first started there, itwas just a regular--1 had [14] a14-foot body, an open truck.[15] Q: Okay. That \vould nave beenthe material [16] that you would havetaken back to Kenosha.[17] A: That's right.[18] Q: Then any material that youdidn't [19] want--[20] A: Anything I didn't want wentinto the [21] garbage truck.[22] Q: Okay. Can you describe thecontainers [23] that that material wasin? [24] What I'd like to focus on,sir, is thePage 27[1] material that you didn't want andthat you took for [2] Johnson Motorsto the landfill.[3] A: Everything was in open •barrels. They [4] were all lined upon the dock. I just dumped the [5]barrels into the back of the truck.That's all.[6] Q: Were they what is known as55-galton [7] barrels?[8] A: That's right, with no tops onthem, and [9] they were all paintedgreen, I guess.[10] Q: Was there any writing on anyof the [11] barrels?[12] A: Yes. There was numbers onthem, you [13] know, evidently whatdepartment that's got to be [14] in.[15] Q: Now, did you pick up at onelocation at [16] Johnson Motors, sir,or more than --[17] A: Two locations.[18] Q: Two locations.[19] A: Two locations.[20] Q: Okay. Was the method ofpicking up the [21] same at bothlocations, that is, would you back[22] both trucks up at bothlocations?[23] A: Yes.[24] Q: Okay. Now, you indicatedthat on - let

Page 28[I] me start over again. [2] On anormal pickup for the waste that [3]you would take to the landfill, abouthow many [4] barrels would you pickup every day?[5] A: You got me there. I reallydon't know.[6] Q: Was it one barrel or -[7] A: Oh, no. There's quite a few ofthem, [8] but. I mean, I don't knowin numbers.[9] Q: Okay. By "quite a fewbarrels," would [10] you say thatthere were 20 barrels?[ I I ] A: Sometimes, maybe more.[12] Q: Okay. Was there ever anoccasion, sir, [13] when you took abarrel itself to the landfill that [14]may have been full of something?[15] A: Yes.[16] Q: Okay. Now, under whatcircumstances [17] would you dothat?[18] A: We find a barrel that was notopened, [19] there's nothing in it,you know, it is either half [20] fullor if it is on the dock it has to go, sowe [21] just throw it right in thetruck regardless. I [22] don't carewhat is in it.[23] Q: So is it fair to say that if youfound a [24] barrel that had a coveron it that was on the dockPage 29[1] that you would take that wholebarrel and dispose [2] of it?[3] A: Yes.[4] Q: Okay. In connection withthose barrels. [5] the covered barrelsthat you disposed barrel and [6] all,was there anything in those barrels?[7] A: Well. sure. They are half fullof [8] something or all full. Whoknows?[9] Q: Were they heavy?[10] A: Naturally they are heavy.

Notes:

[11] Q: And you put those in thegarbage truck, [12] correct?[13] A: Yes.[14] Q: Was there anything on theoutside of the [15] barrel at any time?[16] A: No.[17] Q: Were the barrels clean?[18] A: Well, now, what do youmean were the [19] barrels clean?[20] Q: What I'm trying to determineis if there [21] was anything, say, onthe top of the barrel.[22] A: No.[23] Q: Any liquid of any sort.[24] A: Not that I know of. Theywere closed

-_Page 30[1] barrels. That's all I know.[2] Q: Okay.[3] A: If there was -- wait. If therewas -- [4] like sometime we would

. back up there maybe there's [5] five,six barrels of liquid, you know. See,well, [6] I can't put them in thegarbage truck. That's too [7] manyof them. One, two, they go with the

i rest of [8] the stuff, but if there's alot of them, we put [9] them on theother truck. We haul them over tothe [10] other end of the place, take

, them out, dump them [ 11 ] out andbring the barrels back.[12] Q: Let me take you to thatsituation. [13] Were there timeswhen there were five or [14] six --[15] A: Oh, yes.[16] Q: Was that a frequentoccurrence?[17] A: No. No.[18] Q: Would that happen once aweek would you [19] estimate?[20] A: Oh, I don't know. I wouldsay maybe -- [21] yes, it could be.[22] Q: Okay. Would you go overagain what you [23] did with thosebarrels when you found five or six[24] barrels?

-Page 31[1] A: They had a pond in the back atthe [2] place, and I was instructed todump the liquid into [3] that pond

~and that's it.[4] Q: That was on the occasionwhen there were [5] five or sixbarrels, is that correct?[6] A: Yes. That's too many for meto put in [7] the landfill.[8] Q: Would you then dispose ofthose empty [9] barrels into thelandfill?[10] A: No, no. I bring them back.I bring [11] them back and set themon a dock. I don't know [12] whathappened to them.[13] Q: And then you would leavethem on the [14] dock.[15] A: Yes.[16] Q: Can you describe for us theliquid that [17] you poured out intothe pond?[18] A: I never--[19] Q: Was it an oily liquid?

[[20] A: Sometimes it is. Themajority of the [21] time it's thatwhite stuff that they run through [22]the machines.[23] Q: Okay. What do you mean by"the white [24] stuff thai they runthrough the machines"?Page 32[1] A: I don't know. It's white andit's some [2] kind of a fluid ihat theyrun through the machines [3] while

jhey are cutting.[4] Q: Okay. It was pan of their [5]manufacturing process •-[6] A: Evidently.[7] Q: is that correct? [8] How didyou know it was the white [9]material, the white liquid?[10] A: I'm dumping it out. I cansee if it is [11] coming out white orblack,f 12] Q: Did you observe their

manufacturing [ 13] process at anytime?[14] A: No. I never been there.[15] Q: Did somebody tell you thattha t was the [16] material that theyutilized in their machines?[17] A: No.[ 18] Q: Okay. But you just knewthat it was the [19] substance thatthey utilized in their manufacturing[20] process.[21] A: Yes.[22] Q: Okay. On the occasion thatyou would [23] dispose of the fulldrum, not dump the drum into [24]the pond -- and I guess that would bethe occasionsPage 33[1] of when there would be less thanfive or six of [2] those barrels.[3] A: Yes.[4] Q: You would take that wholefull barrel [5] then to the -[6] A: Yes. We wouldn't bring itback. We [7] would just throw it inthe garbage truck and it's [8] gone.[9] Q: Do you have any reason tobelieve that [10] the liquid in thosebarrels was any different from [11]what you were dumping into thepond?[ 12] A: I don't think so. I wouldn'tknow.[13] Q: Did anybody tell youanything about the [14] liquid thatwas in the barrels?[15] A: No.[ 16] Q: Okay.[17] A: No. but a couple times I wastaking a [18| few drums home withme for the simple reason they [19]were full of gas.[20] Q: How did you know that theywere full of [21] gas?[22] A: Well, I take the bong out andI'm ready [23] to dump them andthat's gas. I can use that. I [24] putthe bong back on. I take it home.

Notes:

Page 34[I] Q: You could smell that it wasgasoline.[2] A: Oh, naturally. Yes.[3] Q: This would have been adifferent liquid [4] than the whiteliquid you're describing.[5] A: Oh, yes. Sure.[6] Q: Was there ever a time that youdumped [7] gasoline into the pool?[8] A: Accidentally, yes.[9] Q: So that would be a time whenyou would [10] have taken it off andmaybe you didn't realize it.[II] A: We take the bong off and wethrow the [12] barrel and then let itgo on the end. By that [13] time, it'shalf gone. It's too late.[14] Q: Again, sir, with regard to thebarrels [15] that had liquid in themthat you took to the [16] landfill, didyou take - what did you call it, the[17] bong?[18] A: The bong, yes.[19] Q: The bong off and check thosebarrels [20] prior to taking them tothe landfill?[21] A: No.[22] Q: So you --[23] A: Because there's one or two. Ijust was [24] hoping it wasn't gas.That's all.Pmge 35[l]Q:Okay.[2] A: Because if it is gasoline inthere, I [3] want to take it home. Ican use it.[4] Q: But you wouldn't have checkedthem [5] before taking them to thelandfill.[6] A: No, no. If there's only onebarrel or [7] so like that, we don'tplay with it. [8] The only time Iknow when something is [9] in therebecause when we take it to the otherend [ 10] of the pond and we dump it,we have to open them up [11] and

dump them out.[12] Q: Could you estimate tor me,sir, how many [13] times in a monthyou made a trip to the pond?[14] A: No. I really can't tell you.[15]Q:Okay.[16] A: Because it was just standardprocedure, [17] you know. Eitherdump them out over there or throw[18] them in the truck. If there's toomany to put in [19] the truck, I goand dump them.[20] Q: Okay. Let's go back to the55-gallon [21] drums that were notcovered that just apparently [22] hadsome other waste materials.[23] A: It's all waste, yes.[24] Q: Can you describe for mewhat was inPage 36[I] those drums?[2] A: Well, it's mostly paper andsweepings [3] and cups and whatevereverybody throws in, you [4] know,from various departments. Janitorspick them [5] all up. They bring thestuff out on the dock, and [6] theywait for me to come there in themorning so I [7] can empty them all.That's all.[8] Q: By "sweepings," what do yourefer to?[9] A: Anything in the factory.whatever they [10] go to sweep it up.[II] Q: Did they have some materialson the [12] floor in the factory?[13] A: Sure. There's sawdust andeverything [14] all over the place, Isuppose.[15JQ:Okay. Did you pick upsome sawdust?[16] A: Oh, sure.[ 17] Q: Can you describe thatsawdust for us?[ 18] A: Just -[19] Q: Was it clean sawdust?[20] A: Well, I imagine if it wasclean sawdust [21] they wouldn't

throw it away, would they?[22] Q: So it was sawdust that hadsomething [23] mixed in it. is thatcorrect?[24j A: Evidently, yes.

Page 37[1] Q: Can you describe what itlooked like for [2] us?[3] A: No, I can't. All I know is it'ssawdust [4] and all kind of paper,wood shavings, you know.[5] Q: You indicated to us before thatyou [6] smelled the gasoline.[7] A: Oh, yes.[8] Q: Were there any other smellsthat you [9] detected?[10] A: Well, no. You smell the oiland then [11] you smell --1 don'tknow. There's a different [12] smellto various things.[13] Q: Did you smell oil onoccasion?[14] A: Oh, yes. Yes.[15] Q: Was that a normal occurrencethat you [16] would have smelledoil?[17] A: I wouldn't pay no attention.[18] Q: Okay. But you do recallsmelling oil.[19] A: Oh, yes.[20] Q: Now, you indicated that youpicked up [21] from two locationsfrom Johnson Motors, is that [22]correct?[23] A: Yes.[24] Q: Can you tell us where thoselocationsPage 38[ 1 ] were located at the --[2] A: Yes. One was as soon as youcome in the [3] plant, and the otherone was down the other end on [4]the other side of the railroad tracks.[5] Q: So it was at opposite ends ofthe [6] plant.[7] A: Yes.[8] Q: Could you tell what was

Notes:

going on inside [9] of the plant atthose locations at all?[10] A: Well, HI be honest withyou, I don't [11] even think I everwent inside the plant, see. The [12]only time that I went in there waswhen I had to [13] use a restroom orsomething, then I knew where that[14] is and that's it. Otherwise,somebody called me in [15] the officefor something where I did wrong.[16] Q: Was there ever an occasionwhen somebody [17] called you inthe office that you did wrong?[18] A: Oh, yes, because they don'tlike -- they [19] didn't like mysystem. They don't like this. They[20] want me to buy new equipment.They want me to buy [21] this.[22] Q: Who would that have been,sir?[23] A: I really don't know. I don'tknow his [24] name. All I know is alittle fellow that startedPage 39[1] me out over there. I think hisname was Frank [2] Eaton.[3] Q: Frank Eaton.[4] A: Yes.[5] Q: Was that the same person whowould call [6] you in and complainabout the equipment or [7]something like that?[8] A: No, no, no, no, no. That was--1 don't [9] know.[10] Q: Does the name PhilEllingson sound [11] familiar to youat all?[12] A: Oh, yes. Yes, I knew Phil.Yes.[13] Q: Who was that?[14] A: He was supervisor of -- myboss over [15] there whenever I wasthere.[16] Q: Did you have contact withhim?[17] A: Yes, once in a while. Hewould come out f 18] and tell me

what I'm doing wrong.[19] Q: Did he ever come out and tellyou what [20] you were doing right?[21] A: Not too often.[22] Q: So when he would come out,he would come [23] out to tell youthat you were doing something [24]wrong.Page 40[1] A: Yes. "Hey, you got to do thisway and [2] do this way." Okay.[3] Q: Do you know what hisposition was?[4] A: I think he was some kind of asupervisor [5] or something. I mean,I really don't know.[6] Q: Do you know if he's stillaround today, [7] sir?[8] A: No. I lost track of him solong ago. I [9] wouldn't know.[10] Q: Did you ever have contactwith somebody [11] by the name of aMr. Carlson?[12] A: Yes. Yes. He's the guy thatused to [13] sign the contract.[14] Q: Okay. Did you ever meethim and have [15] any conversationwith him?[16] A: I don't recall. I don't know ifI ever [17] talked to him or not.[18] Q: Was there anybody else atJohnson Motors [19] that you everhad any contact with?[20] A: Yes. There was -- oh. geez,if I can [21] remember his namenow. I can't remember his name.[22] Q: Do you recall what positionhe had?[23] A: I think he was big boss ofthe whole [24] plant.Page 41[1] Q: Okay.[2] A: I can't think of his name now.He's a [3] big, heavy-set fellow.[4] Q: Do you recall when the lasttime was [5] that you saw him?[6] A: The last time I saw him?

[7] Q: Yes.[8] A: Oh. geez. I don't know.[9] Q: Would that have been inconnection with [10] your job, inconnection with picking materials up[ 11 ] at Johnson Motors?[12] A: No.no.[ 13] Q: Did you see him subsequentto working [14] with JohnsonMotors?[ 15] A: Yes, I seen him on severaloccasions, (16] and one occasion hetold me -- he says I have to go [17]and --1 don't know. I can'tremember. Geez. I [18] don't -- it'sso long ago.[19] Q: Sure. Sure.[20] A: I don't know. If youmentioned some of [21] the names ofthe old-time owners there, maybe I[22] would remember his name.[23] Q: Okay. Do you recall, otherthan that [24] individual, anybodyelse that you had contact with?

Page 42[1] A: No.[2] Q: Okay.[3] A: Just -- like I says, Phil andFrank [4] Eaton. [5] No. Wait aminute. I think Phil came [6] thereafter Frank Eaton left. That's what.[7] Q: Okay.[8] A: Something like that. I don'tknow. And [9] then, of course, Iused to know them two janitors [10]that always used to bring the stuffout, you know, [11] pile it on thedock and wait for me.[12] Q: Do you know their names?[13] A: No. I don't know their name.I know [14] that big Swede.[ 15] Q: These would have been thejanitors in [16] the two separatelocations, is that correct?[17] A: Yes. They always come outthere and [18] hollering at mebecause I'm doing everything a [19]little too slow or too fast or

Notes:

something. He needs [20] that barrelempty and how come it ain't empty.[21] Q: Sir, when you took thematerials to the [22] landfill •- this isthe Waukegan landfill east of [23]Lewis Avenue, is that correct?[24] A: Yes.______________

Page 43[1] Q: Did you have any contact atthe landfill [2] with anybody?[3] A: No. Just we had to sign theticket [4] every time when we wentin there. That's all.[5] Q: Okay. And who paid for --[6] A: Well, Johnson paid the landfillfor a [7] good many years. They paidmy dump fees. In other [8] words,that was included in the deal.Somewhere in [9] the late fifties, Iguess, then they decided that [10]they are not going to pay my landfillfees no [11] more. Then I wasobligated.[12] Q: How did you go aboutpaying the landfill [13] fees?[14] A: Well, I paid them monthly.[15] Q: So did National Disposal billyou?[16] A: Yes.[17] Q: Okay. And they sent a billto your [18] Kenosha address, is thatcorrect?[19] A: Yes.[20] Q: You indicated, sir, that youhad a [21] contract with JohnsonMotors to do this work, is [22] thatconed?[23] A: Yes.[24] Q: Was that a contract thatJohnson MotorsPage 44[1] sent to your office in Kenosha?[2] A: Wait. Would you repeat thatagain?[3] Q: You indicated that you had awritten [4] contract -[51 A: Yes.

[6] Q: in connection with this work.[7] Was that contract sent fromJohnson [8] Motors to your office inKenosha?[9] A: Yes.[ 10] Q: Okay.[11] A: I think it was, yes.[12] Q: Did it have a period of timein which [13] you were going to dothis work like six months or a [14]year?[15] A: Mostly it was a year at atime.[ 16] Q: Okay.[17] A: And then next year it justcame. That's [18] all.[19] Q: Okay. How were you paidby Johnson [20] Motors?[21] A: By check naturally.[22] Q: Were you paid --[23] A: They would send me amonthly check.[24] Q: It was based on a monthlyfee, is thatPage 45[1] correct?[2] A: Yes.[3] Q: Was it based at all upon theamount of [4] material that youpicked up from Johnson Motors?[5] A: No. It was a contract. I getso much [6] and that's it.[7] Q: Do you still have thosedocuments, the [8] contract in yourpossession, sir?[9] A: I don't have anything at all.Destroyed [10] all of my records. Ihad them so long and then one [11]day I just piled them all out. Whenthe garbage [12] man came there, Isaid, "Hey, clean out the whole [ 13]house," and that's it, so I haveabsolutely no [14] records of anykind.[15] Q: Okay. Was there a timewhen you sold a [16] pan of yourbusiness?[17] A: Oh, yes. Yes. I sold the

[18] corporation --1 trunk that was --that was in the [19] late sixties, Iguess.[20] Q: Okay.[21] A: Because -- no. It was rightafter I had [22] my first heart attack,and then I laid in the [23] hospital fora whole year, and then after that I[24] sold all the business offpiecemeal.Page 46[1] Q: Do you recall when it was thatyou had [2] your hean attack?[3] A: No. The first one I reallydon't [4] remember. It was in thelate sixties, and then the [5] next onewas in the seventies, and then in '74I [6] had a real bad one, and then afterthat, why, who [7] knows?[8] Q: At the time of your first heartattack [9] in the late sixties were youstill picking [ 10] materials up fromJohnson Motors?[11] A: Yes.[12] Q: Okay. So it would havebeen up to, at [13] least, the latesixties, the time of your first [14]heart attack, that you were pickingmaterials up.[15] A: Yes.[ 16] Q: During this period of time orthrough to [17] the late sixties, wereyou picking materials up and [18]taking it to the Waukegan landfill?[ 19] A: No. No, because we had abig stink [20] over --1 bought abrand new truck, and I don't [21 ]remember what year it was, and thenwhen I went to [22] the landfill withit, then I got stuck. I remember [23]it was in the fall because it wasawful muddy so I [24] got stuck and 1buried the truck, and the guy wasPage 47[1] going to pull me out. Theypulled the whole front [2] end off ofthe truck. If that wasn't bad enough.

Notes:

[3] he hooked it onto the end of theframe and they [4] tried to pull meout that way, and he destroyed the [5]other end of the truck, and maybethat's what gave [6] me the heartattack. I don't know. [7] So thenafter a while we got a tow [8] truck,a big one. We brought the truck toNational [9] truck in Racine to haveit fixed, and then I went [10] in thereand I told them people at National[11] Disposal, I said, "You peopleare going to pay for [12] that truckbecause you're the one that destroyed[13] it," and they had a big argumentabout it, and then [14] they said,"You owe so much money and yougot to [15] pay that much money."One thing led to another. [16] Theytold me, "You do not bring no morestuff [17] here."[18] Q: Now, in connection with thatdiscussion [19] shall we say withNational Disposal, did you ever [20]write a letter or put anything inwriting to [21] National Disposal inconnection with that?[22] A: No.[23] Q: Did National Disposal everwrite you a [24] letter and tell youthat you could no longer dumpPage 48[1] materials at the --[2] A: No. No. He just told me.He says, [3] Your trucks are going tobe refused entry."[4] Q: By "he," this would have beenthe person [5] at the landfill, is thatcorrect?[6] A: That's correct. He said "Nomore."[7] Q: As a result of that, did you nolonger [8] pick materials up fromJohnson Motors?[9] A: No. Then that was it then.[10] Q: Okay. Do you know whatJohnson Motors [11] did inconnection with their waste from thai

period [12] of time on?[13] A: Then they got anothercontractor in [14] there.[15] Q: Do you know who that othercontractor [16] was?[17] A: No, I don't. All they told methat, [18] You don't work here nomore."[19] Q: Okay. Now, you indicatedthat you sold [20] a portion of yourcorporation off after you had [21 ]your heart attack, is that correct?[22] A: Yes.[23] Q: In connection with any ofthose [24] transactions, is it possiblethat any of thePage 49[1] paperwork was conveyed tosomebody else? [2] Do youunderstand what I'm asking?[3] A: No.[4] Q: You indicated that you hadcontracts and [5] probably somebilling statements in connection with[6] the running of your business --[7] A: Yes.[8} Q: correct? [9] When you sold aportion of your [10] business, didyou transfer any of those written [11]documents to the person or entitythat bought your [12] business?[13] A: No, not that I know of.[14] Q: To your knowledge, youdestroyed all of [15] the documents inconnection with your business.[16] A: Yes. I have destroyed all therecords [17] and everything else. Ikept them for so many years [18] andthen one day I just cleaned them allout.[19] Q: Do you recall when you didthat, sir?[20] A: No, I don't.[21] Q: Okay. Do you recall comingto downtown [22] Chicago maybeabout four years ago and giving a[23] deposition in connection withthis matter?

[24] A: Yes.

Page 50[1] Q: Okay. Do you know whetheranything that [2] has transpired inthat four-year period would alter [3]any of the answers that you gave atthat [4] deposition?[5] A: No, I wouldn't know.[6] Q: Okay. Would it be yourtestimony or [7] best impression thatthe answers that you gave at [8] thattime you would also give today?[9] A: I hope so.[10] Q: Have you ever heard of abusiness called [11] Stone ContainerCorporation?[12] A: Maybe I do, but then I don't.Stone?[13] Q: Do you know anything abouthow Stone [14] ContainerCorporation disposed of their waste?[15] A: Oh, God, no.[16] Q: Did you ever do any work forStone [17] Container Corporation?[18] A: I don't even know StoneContainer.[19] Q: Then let me ask you onemore, if I [20] could. [21] Have youever heard of the company named[22] Coral Chemical?[23] A: No. I have never heard of it.[24] MR. MUSCHLER: Mr.Shulski, thank you. I __Page 51[1] don't think I have any otherquestions at this [2] time.[3] THE WITNESS: You don't haveany more?[4] MR. MUSCHLER: No morequestions. Some of [5] these othergentlemen undoubtedly will.[6] EXAMINATION[7] BY MR. RODRIGUEZ:[8] Q: Mr. Shulski, I think you toldMr. [9] Muschler that you thought90 percent of the [10] material youpicked up at Johnson Motors was

Notes:

paper [11] and corrugated.[12] A: I would say so, yes.[13] Q: Now, when you said "90percent," were [14] you including allof the paper and corrugated that [15]you took back to your plant inKenosha?[16] A: Definitely.[17] Q: So of the material that wentto the [18] landfill, when you weretaking certain material to [19] thelandfill, that wasn't 90 percentcorrugated or [20] paper.[21] A: No, no, no. That was theremaining ten [22] percent ofwhatever would be left.[23] Q: Okay.[24] A: In other words, I segregatedthe stuffPage 52[1] as best as I could. Before theygave me a contract [2] to haul thatstuff, I used to take everything back[3] to Kenosha and we wouldsegregate it. We would [4] dump itout there and then pick it up. This is[5] better, this one here, this onehere. You get $100 [6] a pound for,this one you get $10 a pound for and[7] so forth. So we would separateeverything because [8] we wereprimarily ~ or I was primarily intothe [9] paper business, see, and,incidentally, I used to [10] ship allmy paper after it's baled at thebeginning [11] to Goldblatt's. I don'tknow where that is, but [12] that's -[13] Q: Now, the stuff that went intothe [14] truck --1 think you describedit. It was material [15] that went tothe landfill. Now, those were [16]materials that came out Theyweren't in [17] dumpsten, but theywere in 55-gallon drums.[18] A: Yes.[19] Q: And those were open drums,is that [20] correct?[21] A: Yes. Well, then later on I

put my own [22] containers ;n thereand they eliminated the barrel [23]business, you know, see. I had theseregular one [24] cubic yard containersthat they put all over the

Page 53[1]factory.[2] Q: Okay. And then you wouldhave made more [3] stops than just atthe front of the plant and at [4] therear of the plant. You had locationsall [5] throughout there you had tostop and pick up, is [6] that right?[7] A: Well, they were paying meand paying the [8] landfill. Majorityof the stuff went to the [9] landfill.When they don't pay me, then the[10] majority of the stuff goes toKenosha because it [11] has to besegregated in order for me to makeout.[12] Q: Okay. When they used tohave the [13] open-top drums there,in those instances you just [14]empty the drum in the truck.[15] A: Yes.[16] Q: And put the drum back.[17] A: Yes.[18] Q: Okay. Also, you told Mr.Muschler that [19] you sold yourbusiness in the late sixties. [20] Whodid you sell your business to?[21] A: Well, I sold it in threedifferent [22] parts. I sold all of my-- oh, geez, I forget. [23] All of theIllinois, whatever I had to do in [24]Illinois, I sold that to this garbageman from ZionPage 54[1] city -- or Winthrop Harbor hewas. I don't even [2] know what hecalled himself now.[3] Q: Winthrop Harbor did you say?[4] A: Winthrop Harbor.[5] Q: Is that the name of a town?[6] A: Yes. They got all of 20people there.

[7] Q: Now. by the time you soldyour business. [8] Johnson Motorswasn't a customer any more.[9j A: No. Johnson Motors wasn't acustomer of [ 10] mine no more.They had gouen nd of me already.[ 11 ] Q: That was after you buhedyour truck.[12] A: Yes.[ 13] Q: Okay. Do you rememberwhen you bought [14] that truck thatyou buried or when that incident [15]happened?[16] A: I bought the truck in '57.[ 17] Q: Thai truck?[18] A: That brand new one. That'swhen it was [19] new, and then howlong I used it - well, before I [20]got the truck -- it was '58 or '59before I got it, [21] you know, backbecause they had to put the body on[22] it. First you buy the truck andthen you send it [23] down there, andthey have to put that --1 forget [24]what -- that leach body on there, andthen we hadPage 55[ 1 ] to build the other end up andeverything else. So [2] the truckmust have been three years old beforeI [3] had a chance to use it.[4] Q: Okay. How long was it afteryou started [5] using it that youburied it at the landfill?[6] A: That I do not know. I can'ttell you. [7] Like I told you, I don'tknow the exact years.[8] Q: That was a packer truck.[9] A: Oh. yes. I wish I wouldn'thave [10] destroyed all of thoserecords. Then I would pull [11] themall out and I would have hadeverything for [12] you.[13] Q: Finally, Mrs. Shulski, didshe ever do [14] your paperwork orbillings? Did she have any thing [15]that she had to do as pan of thebusiness itself?

Notes:

[16] A: No. Once in a while shecomes over and [17] she helps out,you know, but not too often. She'd[18] like to, but she never was.[ 19] Q: Was she ever an officer of thecompany, [20] a secretary or a vicepresident or anything like [21 ] that?[22] A: Well, if you were to come inmy office [23] and sat down in myoffice once in a while, you [24]would find out why there is nobodythere becausePage 56[I] our office used to be everything.That was also a [2] pan of ourworkshop and part of everything else.[3] Q: Would she be at the office?[4] A: Once in a while she'd be there,but [5] she'd come over there to pickme up and go out for [6] lunch orsomething. That's it.[7] MR. RODRIGUEZ: I don'tthink I have anything [8] further.[9] THE WITNESS: No, she didn'thave any official [10] business oranything. No.[II] FURTHER EXAMINATION[12] BY MR. MUSCHLER:[13] Q: Mr. Shulslti, during thebreak, did you [14] recall the name ofsomebody that you dealt with at [15]Johnson Motors?[16] A: Yes. I don't know his firstname, but [17] Raniak is --[18] Q: Do you have any idea how tospell that [19] name?[20] A: No, I don't.[21] Q: Was this the individual thatyou [22] described'as the big boss ofthe plant?[23] A: He was supposed to be. Asfar as I was [24] concerned, he wasthe owner of the plant.Page 57[1] MR. MUSCHLER: Okay.Thank you, Mr. Shulski.[2] THE WITNESS: Well, it just

came to me.[3] MR. BECK: Mr. Shulski. myname is Bill Beck. [4] and I representa company called Browning-Ferns [5'Industries of Illinois or BFI ofIllinois.[6] EXAMINATION[7] BY MR. BECK:[8] Q: I want to get a little morebackground [9] information. [10]Were you bom on

[11] A: Yes.[12] Q: So you'll be 74 years old thisFriday.[13] A: Yes. Yes, this week, Iguess.[14] Q: Yes, sir. [15] Is your SocialSecurity number [16] ?[17] A: .[18] Q: Now, you have been at this

] address in Kenoshafor about 30 years now, haven't [20]you?[21] A: Oh, definitely. Yes. Let'ssee. I [22] bought that house in '63,I guess, '64.[23] Q: Where did you live justbefore that? [24] Did you still live inKenosha?Page 58[I] A: Yes. I lived at - geez, I forgetthe [2] address of that. My son livesin that one. When [3] he came outof the service, then he kicked me out[4] of my house so I had to buy anew one.[5] Q: All total, how long have youlived in [6] Kenosha?[7] A: In Kenosha, I have lived, let'ssee, [8] about 70 years now.[9] Q: Now, can you tell me whenyou completed [10] your work inhigh school, about what year thatwas?[II] A: Geez, I really don't. I can't.Well, I [12] know it was before thewar.

[ 13] Q: And then I understand youtook some [ 14] diesel engineeringcourses over in Hawaii.[15] A: Yes.[16] Q: Can you remember aboutwhen that was?[17] A: No. I don't know exactly.[ 18] Q: Was that right after highschool or did [19] you do somethingelse in between?[20] A: No. That was when I was inthe service.[21] Q: All right. What branch ofthe service [22] were you in?[23] A: The engineers.[24] Q: Do you remember when yougot out of thePage 59[I] service?[2] A: November '45.[3] Q: What was your first job afterthe [4] service? Do you rememberthat?[5] A: Oh, yes. I went back toAmerican [6] Brass. Yes.[7] Q: American Brass located therein [8] Kenosha.[9] A: Yes.[10] Q: What did you do for them?[II] A: I was a caster.[ 12] Q: Do you remember about howlong you [13] worked for AmericanBrass?[ 14] A: Let's see. After the war?[15] Q: Yes, sir.[16] A: I think about six months orso. I just [17] couldn't stand it nomore.[18] Q: Where did you go to workafter American [ 19] Brass?[20] A: Then I started in my ownscrap business.[21] Q: And that's the Century Metalthat you [22] have told us about.[23] A: Well, it wasn't CenturyMetal at that [24] time. It was just

Notes:

P»fe 6«[1] Q: It was just Bill Shulski Scrap[2] Business.[3] A: That's all.[4] Q: Did you also work for NashMotor at some [5] point in time?[6] A: Yes. I worked for Nash--geez, I don't [7] remember the time.It wasn't a long time.[8] Q: Was it after the war?[9] A: Yes.[10] Q: Okay. Did you work atWells Machine [11] Shop for awhile?[12] A: Yes.[13] Q: Do you know how long youworked there?[14] A: I didn't work in any placeloug, and [15] HI tell you why.Every time you have to go into [16]a place and work, you work so longand then you [17] have to join theunion, and I'm not a union man.[18] Q: Was the Wells MachineShop also before [19] you startedyour scrap business?[20] A: No. That was during, youknow.[21] Q: Did you work for the city ofKenosha for [22] a while?[23] A: Yes.[24] Q: What did you do for them?Fife 61[1] A: First I worked on the streetdepartment, [2] and then I gottransferred over to parks [3]department, and then they wanted meon the police [4] department, and thatwas only one day. That's it. [5] Icouldn't stand that.[6] Q: How long did you work forthe city? Do [7] you remember that?[8] A: Oh, I would say about a yeartotal.[9] Q: Now, was your brother-in-lawinvolved in [10] Century Metal withyou?

[11] A: In the later pan, yes. He wasmy [12] Kenosha man. He used totake care of the baling [ 13] businessand everything else, you know.[14] Q: And his name is JosephDiCello.[15] A: DiCello, yes.[16] Q: And that's D-i and thencapital [17] C-e-1-l-o.

[19] Q: Is he still living?[20] A: Oh, yes.[21] Q: Where does he live, please?[22] A: Roswell, New Mexico.[23] Q: Do you know what he doesfor a living [24] down there inRoswell?Page 62[l]A:No. He's retired.[2] Q: Is he retired?[3] A: Yes, he's retired.[4] Q: Now, did your brother-in-lawever come [5] down to Illinois anddrive the truck for the [6] JohnsonMotors waste?[7] A: No. No, he never was adriver. No, Joe [8] wouldn't drive.Joe said that's out.[9] Q: At the early days did yourbusiness [10] operate out of yourfather-in-law's home at

in Kenosha?[12] A: That's right. That's where itfirst [13] started.[14] Q: Do you remember about howlong that went [15] on?[16] A: No, I don't.[17] Q: You parked the truck rightthere in his [18] driveway.[19] A: Yes. That's it. That's whereI parked [20] the truck andeverything. I only had one truck [21]then and one truck with a lot of bigpayments.[22] Q: And then later on you openedup a [23] business location at 2916Sheridan Road in [24] Kenosha. Isthat it?

Page 63[I] A: That's the address. That's onthe north [2] side of Kenosha.[3] Q: Do you remember about howlong you were [4] at that address?[5] A: Geez, I was there better than20 years I [6] know at least.[7] Q: Were you at that address at theend of [8] the time that you wereconducting your business? [9] Is thatthe last place you operated CenturyMetal [10] from?[II] A: Yes. Yes, and then DiamondScrap Yards [12] bought it.[13] Q: Bought the location fromyou.[14] A: Yes. Not from me. I didn'town it.[15] Q: Okay. Who owned it?[16] A: Harry Crow.[17] Q: And he sold it to DiamondScrap Yard.[18] A: Evidently he did. I don'tknow. Then [ 19] Diamond had a bigscrap yard in there for quite a [20]few years after that[21] Q: Now, was there anotherfellow who worked [22] for CenturyMetal whose name was Paulsen,George [23] Paulsen?[24] A: Yes. He was my metal manoff and on.Page 64[I] Let's put it that way.[2] Q: Now, when you say yourmetal man, what [3] did he do?[4] A: In other words, he was there toseparate [5] all the metal because hewas real good in that [6] respect, youknow, but he was never a driver, and[7] he never left the yard.[8] Q: So the only two people fromCentury [9] Metal who ever did thedriving were you and then [10] for awhile Jesse Franco.[II] A: Yes. Jesse Franco was agood driver of [12] mine.

Notes:

[13] Q: And the one who generallydid the [14] Johnson Motors runswas you.[15] A: I was primarily, yes. I wastout every [16] day.[l?j Q: Okay. Now, when youwotild pick up the [18] garbage atJohnson Motors and take it over tothis [19] landfill east of LewisAvenue, do you know there [20] wasa dirt road into the landfill?[21] A: Yes.[22] Q: Okay. Do you rememberthere was a [23] little office that youwould go into and get your [24]ticket?Page 65[I] A: Yes.[2] Q: Was that landfill pretty closeto Buck [3] Avenue behind the PolkBrothers store?[4] A: No.[5] Q: Do you remember a PolkBrothers store [6] around there?[7] A: No. When I was going there,it was [8] right on Lewis Avenue,right off of Lewis Avenue.[9] Q: Do you remember what sidestreet or [10] what--[II] A: No, I don't. I couldn't tellyou.[12] Q: Did you have to go down tothe city of [13] Waukegan and get atrucker's permit to drive [14] garbagein Waukegan?[15] A: I think I did.[16] Q: Now, you have told us abouthow you [17] started out with a13-yard truck and then you went [18]to a 16-yard truck in the late 1950s.[19] Do you remember that?[20] A: Yes.[21] Q: Did you also have a 25 yardgarbage [22] truck? Do youremember that?[23] A: Yes. Yes, I had a 25 yard.Yes.[24] Q: Do you remember when you

got the 25-yard

Page 66[I] truck?[2] A: Geez, no, I don't.[3] Q: Was it while you had theJohnson Motors [4] account?[5] A: Oh, yes.[6] Q: Was the 25-yard truck agarbage truck or [7] was it open?[8] A: It's a garbage truck, yes.[9] Q: Was it a packer truck?[10] A: Yes.[II] Q: Did you use the 25 yardgarbage truck [12] also to haul theJohnson Motors waste to the [13]landfill?[14] A: I don't think so.[15] Q: What did you use it for?[16] A: Now that you mention it, Ireally don't [17] know, but I doremember we had -- yes, that was on[18] a White chassis. It was 25yards, yes. Yes, I [19] think I usedthat once in a while, too.[20] Q: Tb haul the garbage fromJohnson Motors [21] to the landfill?[22] A: Yes. When the other truckwas broke or [23] something, thatwas a spare I had.[24] Q: When you got the truckstuck in the mudPage 67[1] over at the landfill, which truckwas that? Was [2] that the 16 yard?[3] A: Yes. That I rememberdefinitely.[4] Q: Was the 25-yard truck newerthan the 16 [5] yard?[6] A: No.[7] Q: It was an older truck?[8] A: Yes. Yes, that was an oldone. It was [9] on a White chassis.That was - oh, Christ --[10] Q: You talked about selling offyour [11] company in pieces afteryou had your heart [12] troubles. [13]Did you finally sell the company

itself [14] to Keno Trucking?[15] A: Yes, to Ernie Infusino. Yes,he bought [16] the corporation fromme.[17] Q: Was that Ernie Wright?[18] A: Ernie Infusino.[19] Q: Ernie Infusino. And hiscompany was [20] called KenoTrucking.[21] A: Yes. Kenosha Trucking.[22] Q: Kenosha Trucking.[23] A: Well, they call it KenoTrucking, but [24] it's KenoshaTrucking, Incorporated.Page 68[1] Q: Do you know if you providedany of the [2] records from CenturyMetal to Keno Trucking?[3] A: I doubt it. I don't really think[4] because I worked for Ernie aboutthree years.[5] Q: Oh, you worked for him as hisemployee.[6] A: Yes. In between all my - andthen I [7] was his landfill operator.[8] Q: Where was that?[9] A: Where they got the landfillthat's [10] National --1 mean. WasteManagement has got the [11] landfillright now on Highway 45. That'sPheasant [12] Run.[13] Q: So did Keno Trucking sellthat landfill [14] then to WasteManagement?[15] A: Yes.[16] Q: And you had been anemployee of Keno and [17] youstayed there -- did you stay there afterthey [18] sold to WasteManagement?[19] A: No, no, no, no. That wasbefore.[20] Q: Okay.[21] A: I was with them for a coupleyears, [22] that's all, because thatwas the terms of the [23] sale. Inother words, they gave me so muchmoney [24] for the business, and

Notes:

then they were supposed toPmge 69[I] give me something like, what,200 or $300 a week or [2] somethingfor three years. In other words, that[3] was pan of the sale. So insteadof getting the [4] money for nothing,whenever I had an opportunity [5]and I was well enough, well, then Iwent and I [6] helped them. That'sail. I was working for them.[7] Q: Do you know if Infusino wentto work for [8] Waste Managementafter he sold them the landfill?[9] A: Yes. His nephew or hisson-in-law is [10] still the big bossover there today.[II] Q: Do you know his name?[12] A: Yes. Mike. Mike Infusino.[13] Q: He's the big boss at thePheasant Run [14] landfill.[15] A: Yes, at Pheasant Run.[16] Q: For Waste Management.[17] A: Yes.[18] Q: Do you know if any of the -strike [19] that. [20] Did WasteManagement buy the trucking [21]business of Keno Trucking as well asthe landfill?[22] A: Jesus, that's one thing I can'ttell [23] you. I don't know.[24] Q: Okay.______Page 70[1] A: I imagine ;tiey did, but whoknows?[2] Q: Do you KTOW if any of theemployees of [3] Keno Trucking,other than Mike Infusino, went to [4]work for Waste Management?[5] A: I couldn't tell you.[6] Q: Okay. Do you remember aguy at Johnson [7] Motors whosename was J.G. Kohler, K-o-h-l-e-r?[8] A: He was the purchasing agent, 1think.[9] Q: Is he somebody that you dealtwith?

[10] A: I might have been in hisoffice maybe [11] once or twice, butthat's about it. See, I don't [12]know him personally, but I know ofhim.

F[13] Q: Do you remember beingdirected by Mr. [14] Kohler to takeJohnson Motors' waste to the [15]National Disposal landfills?[16] A: Yes, because that's wherethey said I [17] was supposed to takeit.

|_[18] Q: Was he the fellow who toldyou where to [19] take it?[20] A: Geez, I don't know.[21] Q: You can't remember thatright now.[22] A: I can't remember that now.[23] Q: Let me help you rememberthat one.[24] (WHEREUPON, discussion washad_________________Page 71[1] off the record.)[2] (WHEREUPON, a certaindocument was [3] marked W ShulskiDeposition [4] Exhibit No. 27, foridentification, [5] as of 9/7/93.)[6] MR. BECK: Let's go on therecord.[7] BY MR. BECK:[8] Q: Mr. Shulski, I have nowgiven you what [9] we marked forthis deposition as Exhibit 27, which[10] purports to be a copy of yourattorney's letter to [11] the ERA onJune 27,1989 and attached to (hat isa [12] couple of pages. [13] At thebottom of the second page right [14]here (indicating), do you see thatsignature?[15] A: Yes.[16] Q: Is that your signature?[17] A: Yes, it looks like it.[18] Q: Okay. If you look on thatsame page up [19] at f., it says, "Iwas directed by Johnson Motors [20]Division employees (including J.G.

Kohler. Director [21] of Purchasing)to transport the materials to the [22]National Disposal site." [23] Doesseeing that help you remember that[24] Mr. Kohler is one of the peoplewho told you toPage 72[I] take their waste there?[2] A: I imagine it must be, but Ican't [3] remember correctly. Nowthat you talk about it, [4] Kohler wasthe purchasing agent.[5] Q: Was it clearer to you back in1989 when [6] you answered thesequestions?[7] A: Evidently.[8] Q: You knew that you wereanswering under [9] oath.[10] A: Yes.[II] Q: You knew you were givingthe government [12] information foran investigation, is that right?[13] A: I suppose.[14] Q: And you made every attemptto give them [15] correctinformation, didn't you?[16] A: Well, if I said it, it must beright.[17] Q: That's all I have on thatdocument. [18] Mr. Shulski, I wantto go back to the [19] JohnsonMotors waste now. [20] You talkedabout the waste that was in [21] the55-gallon barrels, but, in addition tothat, [22] was there some waste insome little square [23] containers?Do you remember that?[24] A: Square containers?Page 73[1] Q: Yes, sir, little squarecontainers.[2] A: What size containers are wetalking [3] about?[4] Q: I can't help you with thatmuch, but let [5] me tell you where Igot that. I didn't just make [6] it up.[7] What I'm looking at, Mr.

Notes:

Shulslti, is the [8] transcript that wastyped up for the deposition [9] thatyou gave to the EPA back in 1989when you went [10] into Chicagoand sat down and swore to tell the[11] truth and testified under oathabout all this. [12] Do you rememberthat?[13] A: Yes.[14] Q: Okay. Looking on Page 34of that [15] transcript, you wereasked the question: "What [16] kindof containers was the waste in?" aquestion [17] about Johnson Motors,and the answer you gave was: [18]Most of it were in these little square[19] containers."[20] A: Oh, yes. That's what I said.Them are [21] the containers that Iplaced in there to replace [22] thebarrels.[23] Q: Okay.[24] A: Now I know. They come onwheels andPage 74[I] then they pull them out as atrain. I remember [2] that.[3] Q: So hearing that does help youremember [4] that today.[5] A: Yes.[6] Q: Okay. Can you tell us howbig these [7] square containers are?[8] A: One yard.[9] Q: Do you remember how manyof these [10] one-yard containers youput in there?[II] A: Oh, geez. I don't know, butthere was a [12] lot of them.[13] Q: Did they go out differentplaces around [14] the plants?[15] A: Yes. They were marked likethe [16] barrels. They eliminated thebarrels, and they [17] just put one ofthese. It made it easier for the [18]plant employees because these comeon wheels and [19] they had hitcheson them. So he would come with[20] that little truck, and he'd just

hook one onto the [21] other one,and he can drag a whole tram of them[22] all the way out.[23] Q: Just like a train.[24] A: He'd drag them outside, andhe set themPage 75[1] outside. When we come there, itwould make it [2] easier. I don'thave to empty barrels. Boom. The[3] containers dump by themselvesand they take them [4] back in.[5] Q: Those containers can dump by[6] themselves.[7] A: You hook them up to thetruck and boom, [8] you know.[9] Q: So these are those one-yardcontainers [10] that have the littlehandles on the end that hook [11]onto the truck.[12] A: That's right. Yes.[13] Q: Okay. Did you have to buythose [14] containers special for thisaccount?[15] A: Yes.[16] Q: Do you remember where youbought them?[17] A: Oh, let's see. Where did I getthem [18] from? I think I bought allthem from the Heil [ 19]Manufacturing Company inMilwaukee.[20] Q: Did you buy them all at onetime?[21] A: No, no, no. I couldn't affordthat.[22] Q: Did you have to pay forthose? Johnson [23] Motors didn'tpay for those.[24] A: No, no. I had to pay forthem. ThatPage 76[1] was my own convenience.[2] Q: Now, whether it was the timewhen you [3] were picking up thebarrels or whether it was the [4] timethat you had the one yard square

containers [5] out there, you havesaid that the waste from [6] JohnsonMotors included sawdust sweepings,is that [7] right?[8] A: Yes.[9] Q: Okay. Do you remember thesawdust [10] sweepings were kind ofdark in color?[11] A: Oh, yes. Yes. Sure.[12] Q: Do you remember thesawdust sweepings [13] were wet andheavy?[14] A: Most of them were wet, yes.[15] Q: Could you tell that there wassawdust [16] and oil going into thosecontainers together?[17] A: I imagine there must be. Idon't know. [18] I never paid noattention.[19] Q: Do you remember thatactually in some of [20] the barrelsthat they had oil that you got onto[21] your hands as you weredisposing of it? Do you [22]remember that?[23] A: Oh, yes. Why sure.[24] Q: And you could tell bytouching it thatPage 77[1] it was oil.[2] A: Yes, it is oil.[3] Q: Do you remember that beforeyou got the [4] one-yards that thetruck would empty for you and [5]had to put those barrels in thatsometimes they [6] weighed up to450 pounds each because they were[7] full of liquid?[8] A: I know they were heavy, but, Imean, I [9] don't know the exactweight. I never --1 don't [10] believeI went around weighing one of them.[11] Q: I didn't make this one upeither. I'm [12] going to go back toyour deposition just to help [13] youremember. [14] I'm going to read youseveral questions [15] and answers togive you the context for this f 16]

Notes:

because I want to help you rememberthat one. [17] The question is: "Inthe 55-gallon [18] drums, were thereever any sealed containers that [19]might have had liquid in them?" andyou answered [20] Yes."[21] A: Yes.[22] Q: Q And what was thatsubstance?[23] A: I have never opened a barrel[24] or looked at a barrel or anythingIf it wasPage 78[I] out there, the whole barrel wentin."[2] A: Definitely, yes.[3] Q: If it was a sealed barrel, it [4]just went right in the truck. Wedon't care." [5] And then thequestion: "If it was a [6] sealedbarrel, then, you took the whole [7]barrel?[8] A: That's right. The whole [9]barrel went out there.[10] Q: And how did you dump it at[II] Yeoman Creek Landfill?[12] A: Just dumped it."[13] A: That's all.[14] Q: Q The barrel, the entire [15]barrel?[16] A: The barrel and all, yes.[17] Q: Based upon your experiencein [18] lifting and handling thosebarrels, what would [19] you say wasinside, a liquid, or «" and you [20]answered: "The barrel would runabout 450 pounds [21] a piece."[22] A: I said that?[23] Q: It is in the transcript. [24] Ifyou said it, must it have been true?Page 79[1] A: They were heavy, but -[2] Q: Was some of this a littleclearer to you [3] back in '89 whenyou testified?[4] A: Oh, yes, much.[5] Q: It is your testimony today that

if you [6] said it in this depositionit's the truth.[7] A: Yes.[8] Q: Okay. What I have said toyou about [9] putting the wholebarrels in the landfill out of [10] yourtestimony, is that something younow remember?[11] A: Oh, yes, because the wholebarrel went. [12] The only time wepicked them out if they had too [13]many barrels of liquid, then I dumpedthem in the [14] pond right on theirproperty.[15] Q: That's just on thoseoccasions when they [16] had toomuch.[17] A: That's right. Otherwise, youknow, [18] there's one, two barrels orsomething they go right [19] in thetruck. We don't worry about them.[20] Q: Most of the time --[21] A: In other words, my job wasto take the [22] garbage out of there,so whatever was there for [23]garbage I took.[24] Q: Most of the times it actuallyjust wentPage 80[I] to the landfill, not to the pond.[2] A: No. Most of the time it wentright to [3] the landfill, yes.[4] Q: Okay. Do you remember thatthe sawdust [5] with the oil in itcame from the die casting area [6] atOMCs plant?[7] A: Not necessarily. It come fromevery [8] place, I think.[9] Q: Do you remember some of itcame from the [10] die casting area?[II] A: Oh, yes.[12] Q: Do you remember a machinein the die [13] casting area that wouldshake metal out of sawdust [14] tocatch the metal?[15] A: Yes, I think I do.[16] Q: Do you remember that someof the sawdust f 17] came from that

area?[18] A: Oh. yes.[19] Q: I want to talk about whenyou go out to [20] this landfill eastof Lewis Avenue that you knew as[21] the National Disposal landfill.[22] Do you remember that whenyou were out [23] there you wouldsee trucks out there that said the [24]word "Abbott"?Page 81[I] A: Oh, yes.[2] Q: Did that happen very often?[3] A: Well, I don't know, but, Imean, I [4] remember Abbott.[5] Q: What were those Abbotttrucks doing out [6] at the landfill?[7] A: Well, unloading like me.[8] Q: Dumping waste.[9] A: Dumping stuff out. That'sall.[ 10] Q: At the landfill.[II] A: Yes.(12] Q: Did Abbott have their owntrucks for [13] that?[ 14] A: I imagine they did.[ 15] Q: Do you remember anybodywho drove an [16] Abbott truck?[17] A: Anybody that drove one?[ 18] Q: Do you remember the nameof anybody who [19] ever drove anAbbott truck?[20] A: No.[21] Q: Okay. Did you know any ofthe other [22] drivers who worked forany of the trash hauling [23]companies in town?[24] A: Well, you know, just likeanything else,Page 82[1] when you see a guy, hello, thisand that, and [2] that's it.[3] Q: Did you know any of them byname at all?[4] A: No, I don't think I knew anyof them by [5] name.[6] Q: You knew some of them by

Notes:

sight at the [7] landfill.[8] A: Just by sight. You see theguy, you say [9] hi to him and that'sit.[10] Q: Mr. Shulslti, the time periodthat you [11] hauled this JohnsonMotors waste is pretty [12]important in this case, and I want tobe as clear [13] about it as I can be.[14] I want for this question for youto [15] assume that what Fm tellingyou is the correct [16] thing, allright? [17] I want you to assume thatOMC back in [18] the 1970s told thegovernment that it had some [19]records that showed that you hauledfor them from [20] 1959 throughOctober 1,1971, from '59 to '71.[21] A: I don't think --1 wasn't there'71. I [22] know that.[23] Q: You think you stoppedsooner.[24] A: Oh, yes. It wasn't in theseventies.Page 83[1] Q: When you lost the OMCaccount, did you [2] lose it to Tewesand Kirkegaard?[3] A: Did I what?[4] Q: When you lost the JohnsonMotors [5] account, did it go 10 somefellows named Tewes and [6]Kirkegaard, Henry Tewes and PederKirkegaard?[7] A: Geez, I really don't know.[8] Q: You don't know who you lostit to.[9] A: I don't remember who. All Iknow is [10] they told me to, "Takeyour stuff and get out of [ 11] here."[12] Q: Do you remember beingoutbid for the [13] Johnson Motorsaccount?[14] A: No.[15] Q: Somebody made a lower bid.[16] A: No, I didn't.[17] Q: Do you remember that therewas a [18] question where they

wanted you to buy some new [ 19]equipment?[20] A: Yes. Yes, they wanted me tobuy new [21] equipment. Theywanted me to put this stuff and [22]put that, and I said, "Hey, I'mworking for peanuts [23] now." Infact, Ken Funk used to be myauditor. [24] One day he came to myoffice and he told me, hePage 84[1] said, "You're workingapproximately two cents an [2]hour," he says. He says, "Why areyou working in [3] that place?"[4] Q: That was your accountant thattold you [5] that.[6] A: Yes, you know.[7] Q: So when they wanted you tobuy new [8] equipment, you just saidyou wouldn't do it.[9] A: How can I afford? I'm notgetting [10] enough money out ofthere, and when they got these [11]other guys come in there, they tripledwhat I was [12] getting.[13] Q: Was it at thai point that youstopped [14] working for JohnsonMotors?[15] A: Yes.[16] Q: Essentially the reason youstopped is [17] they wanted you tobuy equipment that you didn't [ 18]want to buy.[19] A: That's right. They wantedme to buy new [20] equipment, andhe wanted me --1 don't know. He[21] told me -- he says I have to getthis here, I have [22] to do this here,and I have to do that there, and I [23]told him, "What do you think I'mcrazy?" I don't [24] know.Page 85[1] Q: Do you remember at one pointin time or [2] another being contactedby some men from the [3]government who wanted to ask you

questions about [4] these landfills andJohnson Motors' waste? Do you [5]remember that? [6] Let me give acouple names and sec if [7] they helpany. [8] Do you remember EddieDomemco from ERA?[9] A: No. I don't.[10] Q: Do you remember JimAmbrosa from Lake [11] CountyHealth Department?[12] A:'No.[13] Q: Other than this depositionyou gave in [14] 1989, have therebeen other contacts that you can [ 15]recall from the government askingyou for [16] information about this?[17] A: No.[18] Q: You don't remember any.[19] A: No, I don't remember. Was Isupposed [20] to?[21] Q: I want to go back to the timeperiod [22] again that you hauled forJohnson Motors. You said [23] youthink '71 is after you actuallystopped hauling [24] for JohnsonMotors.Page 86[1] A: Yes, because '711 already --'71 that [2] belonged to Ernie.[3] Q: You had already sold out toErnie.[4] A: Yes. Yes, I'm pretty sure.That was [5] long -- well, not longbut it was after --1 didn't [6] haveJohnson Motors any more.[7] Q: Okay. Could you have hadJohnson Motors [8] as late as 1969?[9] A: That's possible, yes.[10] Q: Okay. You had it for howlong before [11] you lost thataccount?[12] A: Oh, I don't know. I think Iwas there [13] all of 20 yearsanyway.[14] Q: Okay. So for the period oftime at [15] least from 1958 up untilyou lost the account you [16] hadthat account the whole time.

Notes:

[17] A: Yes.[18] Q: Is that right?[19] A: Yes.[20] Q: During that whole time, allthe garbage [21] that you took out ofJohnson Motors went to the [22]same landfill.[23] A: Always, yes. If it wasgarbage, it went [24] to NationalDisposal, see. I never hauledanythingPage 87[1] else - the only place I hauledfrom there is [2] either there or backto my yard for recycling, [3]whatever it was.[4] Q: And the things you took backto your [5] yard for recycling werejust the corrugated and the [6]materials you could get money for.[7] A: Well, corrugated and paper andwhatever [8] is easy to recycle. Ifthere was any metal in [9] there, ifthere was any toad of steel orsomething, [10] you know, like wetaking it for garbage and there's [11]a broken chair in there. Hey, I haveto throw that [12] in there. That'smade of steel. That don't go in [13]the garbage. That goes in the othertruck because [14] that goes home. Ican sell that.[15] MR. BECK: Let's go ahead andmark this.[16] (WHEREUPON, a certaindocument was [17] marked W.Shulski Deposition [18] Exhibit No.28, for identification, [19] as of9/7/93.)[20] BY MR. BECK:[21] Q: Mr. Shulski, I'm going tohand you a [22] paper that is markednow as Exhibit 28. It says [23] it'sbefore the United State*Environmental [24] ProtectionAgency. It says it's the discoveryP»fc 88

[I] deposition of William V.Shulski, and it was taken [2] onMarch 20, 1989 in Chicago. [3] Doyou see on the second page ofExhibit [4] 28 there is a signature?[5] Whose signature is that, please?[6] A: Yes, that's mine.[7] Q: Okay. And that's right underwhere it [8] says that you are firstduly sworn, upon oath, that [9] youwill respond truthfully andcompletely. [10] Do you see that?[II] A: I hope so.[12] Q: In that deposition in 1989,you remember [13] that EPA'slawyer asked you a lot of questions[14] about the landfill.[15] A: Yes.[16] Q: And asked you a lot ofquestions about [17] JohnsonMotors.[18] A: Yes.[19] Q: Did you at that time testifytruthfully [20] to the best of yourpossible ability?[21] A: I hope so.[22] Q: Do you adopt and endorseeverything you [23] said in thatdeposition as the truth?[24] MR. BLEIWEISS: Pm goingto ask him to readPage 89[I] that if you are going to ask himthat question.[2] BY MR. BECK:[3] Q: Do you adopt everything thatyou said at [4] that time?[5] A: Do I what?[6] Q: Do you adopt everything thatyou said at [7] that time in thatdeposition as the truth to the [8] bestof your ability to tell?[9] A: I don't remember what I said atthe [10] time, but if I said it, it mustbe true.[II] Q: As long as this is an accuraterecord of [12] what you said, then it'sthe truth, is that right?

[13] A: I would say so. [14] Is thatright? [15] Fm not going to be hereto make up some [16] stories.[17] Q: Absolutely. [18] Youunderstood that you were providing[19] information for a governmentinvestigation.[20] A: Yes, sir.[21] Q: It was your best effort toprovide [22] accurate information tothem.[23] A: Definitely.[24] Q: Do you nave any way ofknowing today howPage 90[1] much of that oil material JohnsonMotors gave you [2] to take to thelandfill?[3] A: No. I wouldn't even try toguess. I [4] wouldn't know.[5] MR. BECK: I think that's allmy questions.[6] THE WITNESS: Because I neverpaid attention. [7] If it was out there,it was garbage. It had to [8] go.That's all I know.[9] MR. BECK: Thank you, Mr.Shulski.[10] MR. RYAN: I don't have anyquestions for Mr. [11] Shulski today.[12] (WHEREUPON, discussion washad [ 13] orl the record.)[14] (WHEREUPON, Ms. Heidi J.Aavang [15] entered the depositionproceedings.)[16] MR. BLEIWEISS: Back on therecord. [17] Mr. Shulski, my name isShell [18] Bleiweiss. I representJohnson Motors in this [19]proceeding, and I would like to askyou some more [20] questions aboutyour recollection of what you did.[21] THE WITNESS: Go ahead.[22] EXAMINATION[23] BY MR. BLEIWEISS:[24] Q: You told us about an incidentwhere your

Notes:

Pate 91[1] truck was damaged •-[2] A: Yes.[3] Q: at the National Disposallandfill in [4] Waukegan.[5] A: Yes.[6] Q: And you said you didn't usethe landfill [7] after that, is thatright?[8] A: No, because they told me,"Don't bring [9] no more stuff here"because I didn't want to pay [10] theiibill, and I wanted them to pay mybill. I [11] remember that.[12] Q: You didn't want to pay thebill, but [13] they wanted to chargeyou for towing your truck at [14] thelandfill.[15] A: Yes, because I had -- well, Idon't know [16] in figures exactly,but when I started paying my [17]landfill fees, you know, the landfillfees came out [18] monthly morethan I was making out of Johnson[19] Motors, see, so, I mean, youcan't do that. So [20] that's whythen we started complaining about it.[21] Then when they destroyed myvehicle over [22] there, then I toldthem, you know, "You people are[23] going to have to pay for thisvehicle because [24] you're the onethat destroyed it. I didn't go hookPage 92[1] that cable onto my truck. Yourguys did that," and [2] so forth. Imean, we just had an argument.That's [3] all.[4] Q: And they never paid you forthe damage, [5] did they?[6] A: No. No, they didn't pay mefor the [7] damage, and then Iwouldn't want to pay them for [8]what I owed them.[9] Q: Was this money that youowed them for [10] dump fees?fill A: Yes. Well, I paid them

eventually, but [12] there was a bigargument about it, and then they in[13] turn told me -- they says,"You're barred from this [14] place.You don't bring no more stuff here."Okay.[15] Q: And that was the 16 yardgarbage [16] truck --[17] A: Well, yes.[ 18] Q: that was damaged.[19] A: No. That was the one that Ibought -- [20] well, I don't know. Idon't remember what year [21] that --you know, when I quit, but that wasthe [22] truck that I bought in '57,and I never start using [23] it until'60, you know, see, or somethingaround [24] there. I don't know theexact years.Page 93[1] Q: I thought you said thismorning that [2] that was the16-yarder.[3] A: Well, if I said it was the 16yard, who [4] knows? I only had a13-yarder, I had a 16-yarder, [5] andthen the other garbage truck I had Ithink it [6] was a 20 or 25-yarder. Ihad the big one that I [7] used onlywhen one was broken, then I'd switchthe [8] other one in.[9] Q: But you don't remember rightnow whether [10] or not that truckthat you bought in '57 and [11]started using two or three years laterafter the [12] leach body was put onit was a 16-yarder or not.[13] A: Yes. I'm pretty sure therewas a [14] 16-yarder. Yes, I'm quitesure.[15] Q: Okay. It was that truck thatwas [16] damaged at the landfill.[17] A: That's right.[18] Q: Can you recall approximatelyhow many [19] months or years afteryou started using that truck [20] thatthe incident occurred?[21] A: That I do not know. I'm

trying to rack [22] my brain manytimes on it, but the exact year I do[23] not know.[24] Q: Was it more than a yearlater?

Page 94[1] A: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes, it wasmore than [2] that.[3] Q: You used that truck for severalyears- '[4] A: Oh, yes.[5] Q: before it was damaged atNational [6] Disposal landfill.[7] A: Yes. [8] Again, I wish I neverthrew them records [9] away. Then Iwould have had records of when itwas [10] repaired and so forth, but Idon't. I can't tell [11] you.[12] Q: You told us this morningthat you had [13] been going toJohnson Motors for about 20 years.[14] A: At least, yes.[15] Q: How much of that time, ifyou can [16] remember, includedhauling their garbage as opposed [17]to their paper?[18] A: Geez, I really don't know. Ican't cut [19] that out in years, but Iwould say I was hauling [20] garbagemore -- just as long almost, youknow. Who [21] knows? I can't tellyou for sure.[22] Q: I'd like to refer once again tothe [23] document that was markedthis morning as Exhibit [24] 27.Mr. Beck showed this to you. It is aletterPage 95[1] from you to the United StatesEnvironmental [2] Protection Agencydated June 6th, 1989 -- actually, [3] acover letter from your attorney, Mr.Maher, dated [4] June 27th, 1989.It's conveying your memorandum to[5] Carolyn Bohlen at U.S. ERAdated June 6,1989, and [6] I will readyou an excerpt from your

Notes:

memorandum, [7] and I will ask youif it helps you to recall the [8] yeanwe arc talking about. [9] This is inyour answer No. 2 h., as in [10]Harvey." [H] You say, "Prior tobeginning crash [12] pickup atJohnson Motors in 1965,1 hadpicked up [13] paper and scrapcardboard for a number of years."[14] A: On, yes, because I startedthere long [IS] before that.[16] Q: Having heard your statementmade to the[17] EPA in 1989, does that refreshyour recollection as [18] to what yearyou started hauling trash for Johnson[19] Motors?[20] A: What year I started hauling?Geez, I [21] really don't. I can'tremember that. HI tell [22] you thetruth.[23] Q: Do you have any reason tobelieve that [24] what you told theEPA in this document in 1989,P»ge 96[I] which was that beginning trashpickup at Johnson [2] Motors in1965, was inaccurate?[3] MR. MAHER: Do youunderstand the question?[4] THE WITNESS: Yes, Iunderstand the question. -[5] BY THE WTTNESS:[6] A: No, I really don't know. Asto the [7] exact year I started haulingtrash, you know •-1 [8] mean,garbage what I call it, but I know I -as [9] long as I can remember, I havehauled the paper and [ 10] I havehauled the other stuff.[II] BY MR. BLEIWEISS:[12] Q: Do you think that you weremistaken when [13] you told theEPA that you began trash pickup in[14]1965?[15] A: I must have been because -'65, that [16] was almost at the timewhen I quit them.

[17] Q: You think it was themid-sixties that [18] you quit haulingJohnson Motors.[19] A: No. It was in the latesixties. Late [20] sixties. Maybe'69. That's what I think.[21] Q: And you don't think that it ispossible [22] that you didn't starthauling trash until '65.[23] A: Geez, I don't know. I think Ihave [24] hauled trash before that,too. I don't know.Page 97[1] MR. MAHER: That's youranswer then.[2] BY THE WITNESS:[3] A: I really don't know.[4] BY MR. BLEIWEISS:[5] Q: So either your memory todayis mistaken [6] or your statement inthis 1989 memorandum is [7]mistaken.[8] A: Something is wrong.[9] MR. BECK: Excuse me. [10] Iobject to the form. It's a [11]mischaractehzation of the witness'prior [12] testimony. It's alsorepetitious.[13] BY MR. BLEIWEISS:[14] Q: You can answer the question.[15] MR. MAHER: Do youremember the question?[16] THE WITNESS: No.[17] BY MR. BLEIWEISS:[18] Q: Would you agree with methat either you [19] were wrong in1989 when you said that you began[20] trash pickup at Johnson Motorsin 1965 or you're [21] wrong todayin thinking that it was earlier than[22] 1965? [23] They can't both betrue, can they?[24] A: No, they can't both be true.Page 98[1] MR. BECK: The question isstill asked and [2] answered, and Iobject to it for that reason. [3] Go

ahead and answer.[4] BY MR. BLEIWEISS:[5] Q: Do you have any way ofrecalling for us [6] which one iscorrect?[7] A: I really don't know, but Ipersonally [8] believe I hauled longbefore 1965.[9] Q: Trash.[10] A:.Yes. Well, the paper I havehauled all [11] the time. That Iknow.[12] Q: Now, this morning you saidthat you [13] stopped hauling theJohnson Motors account at the [14]time of the truck damage incident, isthat right?[15] A: No, no. First they kickedme out of the [16] landfill, then Istill hauled for them for a little [17]while.[18] Q: Hauled trash for JohnsonMotors.[19] A: Yes.[20] Q: Where did you take the trashafter [21] National Disposal?[22] A: Then it went right back tothe same [23] place it was. It wasbrought to Kenosha and [24]recycled. See, then I didn't use anylandfill ____ _____Page 99[ 1 ] after that, and then the stuff thatwas from all [2] the other place wasbrought to the city of Kenosha, [3]the landfill.[4] Q: Okay. Let me just ask you afew [5] questions because I'm notentirely clear on what [6] you havetold me. [7] After National Disposalwouldn't accept [8] any shipmentsfrom you, you continued to haul [9]Johnson Motors' trash, is that right?[10] A: Yes, for a year or so orsomething like [11] that. I don'tknow.[12] Q: And you took that trash backto [13] Kenosha.

Notes:

[14] A: Yes, and then we recycled it.Then I [IS] did what I used to dobefore we were dumping here. [ 16]When I first started with JohnsonMotors, I used to [17] takeeverything there. I bring the truck,bring it [18] home, son it ail out,and then --[19] Q: And some would be recycled,and what [20] couldn't be recycledwould go to another landfill [21] inKenosha.[22] A: That's right. Yes. Thatwould be mixed [23] with all the restof the stuff that I got over [24] therefrom the other plants, whatever isgarbage,_____________Page 100[1] you know, stuff that I can't use.[2] Q: Can you recall when youstopped that [3] practice and beganhauling to National Disposal [4]landfill in Waukegan?[5] A: No, I don't. That's somethingthat--[6] Q: Would that have been whenJohnson Motors [7] first beganpaying you to take their garbage?[8] A: Yes, that must have been.That's why it [9] went in the landfillthen because they paid that [10] andthey paid the landfill fees. See, theypaid me [11] to haul the trash.Before that, I had a contract [12] withthem that I would go there and Iwould pick up [13] paper and all --1don't know how the contract [14]would read. [15] So we used to gothere, and we would put [16]everything on one truck every day,load it all up, [17] bring it toKenosha, son it all out, bale the [18]stuff we want, and the stuff that wedon't want [19] goes into locallandfill, see, wherever it was, and[20] then when they started payingme for it, you know, [21] under acontract that I would pick up trash,

well, [22] then it started going intothe landfill, which they [23] told meto because they also paid the dumpfees.[24] Q: Can you recall approximatelywhat yearPage 101[1] that change occurred?[2] A: No. Tm trying to figure it,but I [3] can't.[4] Q: Do you think it could havebeen as late [5] as 1965 that you saidin your earlier --[6] A: It has got to be earlier thanthat. Got [7] to be earlier than that.I know it is.[8] Q: You have referred to a landfilleast of [9] Lewis in Waukegan as theNational Disposal [10] landfill.[11] A: Yes.[12] Q: I think you said this morningthat it is [13] located where there is aMcDonald's now.[14] A: Yes. If I go look at it now,there's a [15] McDonald's right there.It's just a little dirt [16] road in there,and this used to be an office there[17] and that's--[18] Q: So the din road is rightwhere the [19] McDonald's is now.[20] A: Yes. That's what I wouldsay.[21] Q: Did you ever use any otherlandfill in [22] Waukegan?[23] A: No.[24] Q: Even another landfill thatmight have ___Page 102[1] been called a National Disposallandfill, too.[2] A: No.[3] Q: That was the only landfilr.[4] A: That was the only place that I

[5] Q: The one that had the din roadby [6] McDonald's.[7] A: Yes. I have gone to no other

place [8] there.[9] Q: If I told you that there hadbeen other [10] National Disposallandfills in Waukegan prior to [11]ihe one thai operated where theMcDonald's is now. [12] maybe asclose as just a quarter of a mile away.[13] would that refresh yourrecollection at all as to [14] havingused those other landfills?[15] MR. BECK: Excuse me.[16] BY THE WITNESS:[17] A: No.[18] MR. BECK: If the questionuses the plural as [19] it does, then Iobject to your telling him that as[20] being inconsistent with thefacts.[21] BY MR. BLEIWEISS:[22] Q: All right. If I tell you thatthere was [23] one other NationalDisposal landfill in the city of [24]Waukegan that operaied either beforeor after thePage 103[ 1 ] one whose access road was wherethe McDonald's is [2] now, does thatrefresh your memory at all as to [3]having used another NationalDisposal landfill in [4] Waukegan?[5] A: I don't believe that's - that'sthe [6] only place that I have everbrought anything as a [7] landfill.[8] Q: Okay.[9] A: And that was right off ofLewis Avenue. [10] I haven't goneany other place.[11] Q: Okay. And any wastes thatyou picked up [12] from JohnsonMotors prior to using that landfill[13] where the McDonald's is nowwould have gone to [ 14] Kenosha.[15] A: That's right.[16] Q: Any wastes that you pickedup from [17] Johnson Motors afterthe truck damage incident when [18]National Disposal •- pardon thephrase -- kicked [19] you out of their

Notes:

landfill -

[20] A: Yes.[21] Q: would have also gone toKenosha.[22] A: Yes.[23] Q: And you think that youcontinued to haul [24] JohnsonMotors' waste for a year or two afterthe________________Page 104[1] truck incident, is that right?[2] A: Yes, I think so. I'm not sure,but I [3] know it was for a littlewhile until all of a [4] sudden theywanted me to buy all kind of new [5]equipment and everything else, and Ijust thought I [6] can't do it.[7] Q: I apologize for asking aquestion you [8] have answered, butwhat year again was it that you [9]had your first heart attack?[10] A: My first heart attack was in'69,1 [11] think, and then the nextone was in 70 or '71, [12]something like that, and that's the -I lost a [13] whole year because I wasgone for a whole year. I [14] wassitting in the hospital. I never seenthe [IS] outside winter or summer.[16] Q: What happened to youraccounts while you [17] were in thehospital after that first heart attack?[18] A: That's why everything wasstarting to be [19] sold becausenothing was being worked. Thewhole [20] place was closed up andthat was it.[21] Q: So the latest you recallhauling Johnson [22] Motors' trashanywhere was 1969 or earlier.[23] A: About 1969 or earlier orlater. I mean, [24] right aroundthere, see, but that's it.Pmje 105[1] Q: But it wasnt later than yourheart [2] attack.[3] A: No, because then I know we

sold out. I [4] guess it was in '71that we got rid of everything.[5] Q: Okay. The entrance road tothe National [6] Disposal landfill inWaukegan, the one that you [7] havetold us was where the McDonald's isnow--[8] A: Yes.[9] Q: was there ever in yourexperience a [10] different entrance tothat landfill than that one?[11] A: No. I don't know of anyother [12] entrance.[13] Q: Now, you also said thismorning that [14] during the yearswhen the Johnson Motors trash went[IS] to the National Disposal landfillyou would put the [16] trash into thegarbage truck that you kept in [17]Illinois.[18] A: Yes.[19] Q: When it was full, you wouldtake it to [20] the National Disposallandfill.[21] A: Yes. The truck stood in theplant all [22] the time.[23] Q: After about 1960 that wouldhave been [24] what you think wasthe 16 yard packer garbagePage 106[1] truck, correct?[2] A: Yes.[3] Q: You wouldn't have taken thetruck to [4] dump at the landfillexcept when it was full, [5] right?[6] A: That's right, yes.[7] Q: If on any given day you putail the [8] trash into the truck thatwas there to be disposed [9] and itstill wasn't full, what would you do?[10] A: Just park it and that's it.

[12] A: Then come back tomorrowand finish it.[13] Q: Would there have been anydays that you [14] didn't make a tripto the landfill?f 15] A: Oh, yes. On several

occasions, yes.[16] Q: And that would be becausethere was less [17] than howevermuch trash it took to fill the truck.[ 18] A: Because there's less stuff andthat's [19] it. Yes. sec.[20] Q: How common an occurrencewas it that you [21] wouldn't fill thetruck on any given day?[22] A: Well, that would be likesomething went [23] wrong with thetruck, we had to have it fixed and[24] everything else, then I wouldbring my big one in.Page 107[I] Q: Let me ask my question again.You may [2] not have understood it.[3] When the 16-yarder was working[4] normally --[5] A: Yes.[6] Q: Pm trying to figure out whatpercentage [7] of the time you did ordidn't fill the truck on any [8] givenday.[9] A: I would say one a day at least.It was [10] almost every day, but onoccasions it wasn't.[II] Q: So the typical day you wouldfill the [12] truck once and make onetrip to the landfill.[13] A: Oh, yes. We would make atleast one [14] trip a day.[IS] Q: Some days not.[16] A: Yes.[ 17] Q: Were there any days that youwould make [18] more than one trip?[19] A: Yes. Yes. I remember somedays when we [20] had -- there wasan excess amount of garbage and [21 ]this and that so we had to make - Iwent twice. [22] That's very rare,but, I mean, it was there. [23] Basingmy pay on it, that's all I wasallowed.[24] Q: Do you recall the name ofthe driver whoPage 108

Notes:

[I] drove the Johnson Motors wastein their own truck [2] prior to you?[3] A: No. I tried to remember it,but I [4] can't. I don't know. I don'tknow.[5] Q: Now, you also told us that attimes [6] there would be barrels ofliquid that would be [7] dumped intoa pond on Johnson Motors property.[8] A: Yes.[9] Q: Was that the liquid that lookedmilky [10] white?[II] A: Yes, most of the time.[12] Q: When you poured that liquidinto the [13] pond, could you see it?[14] A: Why, sure.[15] Q: After it mixed with thewater, could you [16] still see it?[17] A: Yes. Depending on what itis, you [18] know. You see it there.You dump something in [19] there.You could see it for a while.[20] Q: Did it --[21] A: Because the whole pond wasall full of [22] it. How can you --[23] Q: Okay. Could you tell if itmixed with [24] the liquid that wasalready in the pond or not?Page 109[1] A: Geez, I never paid noattention.[2] Q: Did you ever notice it floatingon the [3] liquid that was already inthe pond?[4] A: I think so, but who knows? Imean, I [5] can't -- it's kind of hard totell you. It stands [6] to reason ifyou pour gasoline in there it's going[7] to float. If you pour any kind ofan oil in there, [8] it's going to float,you know. If you pour any [9] kindof a caustic material, it's going tofloat.[10] Q: Do you think that this liquidwas either [11] gasoline, oil orcaustic material?[12] A: Oh, yes. I found a lot oftimes [13] gasoline. Like I says, a

lot of time I brought it [14] homebecause it was gasoline.[15] Q: I understand. [16] Other thanthe gasoline, which you have [17]said you tried to take home.Sometimes you didn't [18] notice it.[19] A: I never paid no attentionbecause to me [20] it's oil, it's water.I mean, I don't care what it [21] is.It don't bother me. All I know is I'm[22] supposed to get rid of it andbring the barrels [23] back.[24] Q: The way you decided whetherto pour thisPage 110[1] liquid into the pond or throw it inthe truck and [2] take it to the landfillwas what?[3] A: You can't put three, fourbarrels in the [4] truck, you know,because you put it in the [5]compactor and then you are going tocrush them up [6] and it will berunning all over the place before [7]you get anywhere so you can't dothat. One or two [8] you can get ridof, but if you have got three, four [9]five barrels of stuff there, then wetook them over [10] to the pond. Ifthere was only one barrel there, [11]hell with it. It went right in thetruck.[12] Q: Would there have beenbarrels of liquid [ 13] there every day?[14] A: No.[15] Q: Was it an unusualoccurrence? [16] On the typical day,were there no [17] barrels of liquid?[18] A: Oh, yes. Yes.[19] Q: Were there barrels of liquidthere every [20] week?[21] A: Oh, yes.[22] Q: So some days there were andsome days [23] there weren't.[24] A: Yes. You never know. I'mthinking backPage 111

[l]now. I never paid no attention.If it was two, [2] three barrels, thenwe put it on the other truck, [3] tookit over and brought it back and that'sit [4] because it was our job to getrid of that stuff and [5] that's all. Ifit was just like one or two [6]barrels, then we'd throw one barrelin, and we [7] would keep throwingthe rest of the stuff in there [8] andget another barrel in there and get itin the [9] middle and the hell with it.[10] Q: Was it easier for you todump the liquid [11] into the pondthan to take it to the landfill?[12] A: No. It's much easier tothrow the whole [13] barrel away.Naturally, it is a hell of a lot [14]easier.[15] Q: So it was easier to take it tothe [16] landfill.[17] A: Yes. If there wasn't toomuch of it, [18] but if there's toomuch of it, you can't do that.[19] Q: You had said earlier thismorning that [20] the white fluid wasthe fluid that they ran through [21]their machines when they werecutting.[22] A: Yes. It's like a coolant onthe [23] machines. That's what themajority of the liquid [24] was.Page 112[I] Q: How do you know that? Howdo you know [2] that's what it was?[3] A: I don't know that, but that'swhat I [4] assumed.[5] Q: Just so that I can separate --what is [6] important to us here iswhat you know, not what you [7]assume. So just so that we can beclear on which [8] is which, youknow the liquid was a milky, [9]white-looking liquid.[10] A: Oh, yes.[II] Q: And you assumed it wasfrom-[12] A: That's right.

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[13] Q: What did you call it, coolantliquid?[14] A: Where it come from or whatit was used [15] for, I don't know andI still don't know. All I [16] knew itwas on the dock, and it was my jobto get [17] rid of it. That's all.[18] Q: How large -- I'm sorry. Letme change [ 19] subjects just for aminute. [20] When we took ourbreak earlier, your [21] attorney, Mr.Maber, told us that you were onsome [22] medication today.[23] A: Definitely.[24] Q: Well, can you tell us whatthat_______ ___Page 113[1] medication is?[2] A: "fell you the names of themedications, [3] no. I have got acontainer in the car, and I have [4]got one in the house, and I have gotone in my van, [5] and all I do is just- it says this is Friday, [6] 7:00o'clock, this is Friday 8:30, this isFriday, [7] and I just take it.[8] Q: Can you tell us what themedication is [9] for?[10] A: Well, most of it is for mybean [11] condition.[12] Q: How long have you beentaking this same [13] medication?[14] A: Since I have -- oh, let's see.Well, [15] they change every once inawhile. When they get [16]something new, then they put me -doctor tells me [17] get rid of thisnow and start on this so I -[18] Q: Can you recall the last timethe doctor [ 19] changed yourmedicine?[20] A: About a year ago now.[21] Q: So you've been on the samemedication [22] that you're takingtoday for about a year.[23] A: At least, yes.[24] Q: Does it interfere with yourability to

Page 114[1] function normally?[2] A: I think it does, yes, because Iwas [3] taking medication and mymedication was costing [4] me --when I was paying for it, it wascosting me [5] something like $240a week for my medicines. [6] That'stoo much money. I can't afford that.So [7] then I made the U.S.Government pay for it. They [8] payfor it today.[9] Q: Good for you. [10] Do youthink that you're able to listen [11]to and think about and answer ourquestions here [12] today, eventhough you're on this medication?[13] A: So far. It looks like I'vestarted to [14] get a mighty headache,but Tm getting there.[15] Q: Are you joking or are youreally getting [16] a headache now?[17] A: What?[18] Q: Are you joking now or areyou really [19] getting a headachenow?[20] A: No, I am.[21] Q: Do you think that's from themedication [22] that you're on?[23] A: No. I'm supposed to take theother [24] pills at 12:00 o'clock and Ihaven't so »Page 115[1] Q: Do you have them here withyou?[2] A: Yes. I got them in the car,and the car [3] is quite a ways awayfrom here.[4] Q: Would you like to take abreak?[5] A: No. I want to finish this here,and [6] then I want to take a breakand go home.[7] Q: I don't want to interfere withyour [8] schedule of medication.[9] A: Don't worry about it. It's likeI told [10] him. He was the one that

told me the same thing, [11] butfinish this and then let me get out ofhere.[ 12] Q: Even if this were to go acouple more [13] hours, would youstill think that you're okay [14]without taking your medication?[15] A: I hope not because I don'tthink I [16] can -- not a couplehours. Let's put it that way.[17] Q: Well, in case it might. Weare not [18] almost done now, so doyou think you would be [19] betteroff to take a break and go get yourpills [20] and take them, rest a littlewhile?[21] A: I don't know. [22] What doyou think?[23] MR. MAKER: I'm a littleconfused at the [24] questioning atthis point. If you are asking Mr.Page 116[1] Shulski if he feels capable ofanswering your [2] questions now,then I really don't have any problem[3] with it, but if you are asking himhow he's going [4] to feel 30minutes from now or 45 minutesfrom now, [5] then I guess I do havea problem with that kind of [6]questioning since I'm not so sure he'squalified to [7] answer it. [8] We hadtalked earlier, and we are son [9] ofusing an hour as a benchmark. Bymy watch, we [10] are now pressing40 minutes into that hour. [11] Iwould suggest to you that Mr.Shulski [12] is here. He's willing tofinish this deposition. [13] Whydon't you ask him as many questionsas you can [14] while he's still ableto answer them, and we will (15]take it from there when he starts toget tired.[16] MR. BLEIWEISS: Okay.Well, my reason for [17] askingabout the medication I suppose wastwofold, [18] but the primary one

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was to ascertain whether or not [19]it's interfering with his ability toanswer our [20] questions today.[21] MR. MAKER: Mr. Shuiski, doyou believe that [22] you're able tounderstand the questions that are [23]being asked of you right now?[24] THE WITNESS: Yes.Page 117[1] MR. MAKER: Are you able toremember and [2] explain what yourecall?[3] THE WITNESS: Yes. I hopeso.[4] MR. BLEIWEISS: Okay. Good.[5] My secondary reason was justbeing [6] concerned about interferingwith his medication [7] schedule.[8] MR. MAKER: Do you want usto send somebody [9] out to your carto get your medication?[10] THE WITNESS: I have delayedthem before [11] already so an hourdon't hurt sometime.[12] MR. BLEIWEISS: Let meproceed then.[13] BY MR. BLEIWEISS:[14] Q: If you feel that you're unableto [15] continue answering questions,let one of us know.[16] A: Okay.[17] Q: What size truck was it thatyou [ 18] described earlier as a semiand, as I understand [19] it, was thetruck that you haul the paper and [20]whatever else was going back toKenoshaon?[21] A: Well, yes. It was anInternational [22] tractor, and I hadfive or six different -- various [23]boxes, semis as we call them. I hadthe 45-footer, [24] the 40-footer and30-footer.Page 118[1] Q: How did you decide whichboxes of the [2] 30, the 40 or the45-footers to use on any given [3]

day?[4] A: Whichever one was able.[5] Q: Did any one of them haveadequate [6] capacity to carry --[7] A: Oh, yes.[8] Q: whatever you picked up atJohnson [9] Motors?[10] A: Yes.[11] Q: If you had the 30-footer withyou, did [12] you fill it typically atJohnson Motors?[13] A: Most of the time, yes.[14] Q: So is it accurate to say thaton average [15] talking about therecycled materials from Johnson [16]Motors the capacity of about what a30-foot [17] semi-trailer would carry,but not more than the [18] capacity a30-foot semi-trailer would carry?[19] A: Oh, yes. See, that's thepoint. When [20] you look at thestuff over there, then you have to[21] know should I break the boxesdown or should I [22] flatten themout or should I just throw them in[23] that way. It depends on howmuch stuff is there. [24] If there's notenough stuff, you just throw themPage 119[I] in. If there's too much stuff, youflatten them [2] out. It makes moreroom. It's simple. In other [3]words, regardless how much stuff isthere, it has [4] to fit.[5] Q: I understand. [6] Is it possiblefor you to convert for [7] our benefitto cubic yards in terms of capacity[8] what these semi-trailers wouldcarry?[9] A: No. I really never did figurethat [10] out.[II] Q: How high were you able toload your [ 12] semi-trailers?[13] A: Well, as high as the trailersare. Most [14] of them are what,seven or six feet? Seven foot, [15]six foot high, and they are only -according by [ 16] law, they are six

and a half foot wide so they [17]don't make them any larger.[ 18] Q: Six and a half feet wide?[19] A: Yes.[20] Q: And then the length wascither 30 feet [21] or 40 feet or 45?[22] A: Yes. That determines whattype of [23] tractor. If you have asnub nose, you can pull a [24]45-footer. If you have got a big nosetractor,Page 120[I] legally you can't hook it up to a45-footer, see.[2] Q: Okay. You had said thismorning that [3] about 90 percent ofwhat you picked up at Johnson [4]Motors was the recycled materialsthat went back to [5] Kcnosha.[6] A: Definitely.[7] Q: And about ten percent was thetrash that [8] went to wherever youwere taking trash at that [9] time.[10] A: Yes.[II] Q: All right. So if we were totry and [12] calculate a quantity forthe trash, it would be [13] about tenpercent of the quantity of the recycled[14] materials.[15] A: I would say so, although I'mnot sure, [16] but, I mean, that's myestimate. That's the way I [17]figure it because the majority of it ispaper and [18] corrugated, see.[19] Q: Are you basing yourpercentages on [20] weight orvolume?[21] A: Volume.[22] Q: Now, I'd like to focus for afew minutes [23] on just the refusepan of what you picked up, the [24]ten percent, okay?Page 121[1] You had said, I believe, that that[2] material consisted of paper,sweepings, and within [3] thesweepings category you include

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sawdust[4] A: Oh, yes.[5] Q: Cups, wood shavings. [6] Isthat a separate category or is that [7]pan of the sweepings still?[8] A: It's part of being all together.[9] Q: And that you smelled oil.[10] A: Ys. And then, of course,there was a [11] lot of what theycalled wiping rags, you know.[12] Q: Wiping rags.[13] A: We used to pick them outand salvage [14] them.[15] Q: When you say "used to," didyou always [16] try to pick them outand salvage them?[17] A: I always tried to pick themout, yes.[18] Q: Of the materials that went tothe [19] landfill, if everything thatwent into the garbage [20] truck is100 percent --[21] A: Yes.[22] Q: can you put percentages forus on the [23] various components ofthe refuse, the paper, the [24]sawdust, the wood shavings, thecups, any liquids?Pmge 122[I] A: No. I don't know becausewhen I was [2] hauling with thelandfill, I accepted the [3] corrugatedonly. While I was hauling to the [4]landfill, all this paper and stuff likethis from [5] the office andeverything else I didn't salvage. [6]That went in the garbage stuff. Thatwas gone. [7] That was garbage. IfTm figuring it that way, I [8] wouldsay there's 50/50.[9] Q: When you say "50/50," doyou mean of [10] what went to thelandfill half was paper?[II] A: Half of what I took, thepaper. Because [12] when I washauling to the landfill, I didn't [13]salvage any of the other stuff, butwhen I didn't [14] go to the landfill,

then I salvaged everything, and [15]then I figured 90 percent of it wassalvageable [16] material, see.[17] Q: I think so.[18] A: Do you follow? I'm tryingto --[19] Q: It's not always 90/10, thesplit between [20] what gets recycledand what gets thrown away.[21] A: That's right.[22] Q: It was only 90/10 at the timethat you [23] were taking everythingto Kenosha.[24] A: Yes.______________

Page 123[1] Q: That's before you used theNational [2] Disposal landfill.[3] A: That's right.[4] Q: While you were using theNational [5] Disposal landfill, areyou now saying that the [6]difference was more like 50/50 with50 percent [7] going for recycling?[8] A: Well, yes, because I wasgetting paid to [9] get rid of the stuff.Bring the stuff home to [10]Kenosha, then I'd have to work on itand separate [11] it and everythingelse. That was when they weren't[12] paying me for it, youunderstand. [13] While they arepaying me to haul it out, [14] whyshould I go bring it home and gothrough all [15] that work? I justtake the good stuff. See, I [16] don'tget down to the final points of itbecause I [17] bring it home. I haveto dump it out, and then I [18] haveto son every little piece. Take outthis, [19] you know. We bale this,we take this, this goes in [20] here,this goes in there, and then what isleft, [21] garbage. Nothing left.[22] Q: Okay. So let me see if I can[23] understand. [24] While you wereusing the NationalPate 124

[1] Disposal landfill about the samequantity of [2] materials would havegone to the landfill as would [3] havegone back to Kenosha for recycling.[4] A: Yes.[5] Q: Then am I right inunderstanding that of [6] what wentto the landfill, the National Disposal[7] landfill, 80 percent approximatelywere the harder [8] things to recycle?[9] A: That's right.[10] Q: If you will. [11] Only 20percent of that waste stream was [12]the stuff you would have thrown out,even if you [13] weren't going to thetrouble of recycling.[14] A: That's right. See, whenever Iwas [15] bringing it home. I wassorting it all out. While [16] I wasdumping it over here, the majoritywent to [17] the landfill, and I justtook the good stuff. That [18] wassimple.[19] Q: Of that harder stuff torecycle, was [20] that all paper of onekind or another?[21] A: At one time, yes. That'spaper where [22] they wash theirhands with, you know, wipe their[23] hands.[24] Q: Paper towels.Page 125[I] A: Yes, paper toweling, papercups, paper [2] this, paper that, thiskind of paper and everything [3] else(indicating). It's all recyclable if youare [4] going to pick it up. But ifyou're getting paid [5] for it, it allgoes to the garbage truck and the [6]devil with it.[7] Q: So of the garbage truckmaterials that [8] went to theNational Disposal landfill, 80 percent[9] approximately was paper.[10] A: Yes.[II] Q: Now, of the remaining 20percent, can [12] you describe for usany better than you did this [13]

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morning what lands of things therewere?[14] A: Well, you are talking aboutlike floor [15] sweepings and stuff?[16] There's floor sweepings. There'sall [17] kind of clippings, metalclippings from stamping [18]machines, this and that, turningsfrom where they [19] machine, youknow. What else can I tell you? A[20] lot of sawdust. Well, I told youthat before [21] and -- well, whateveris declared garbage. In [22] otherwords, if they put it out on the dock,I [23] consider it garbage. I don'tcare what it is. I [24] don't care ifit's somebody's wallet with $ 10,000Page 126[1] in it. It's garbage to me. It goesbecause I [2] don't look inside there.I don't want to stay [3] there all daylong. I stay there maybe a half a [4]day every morning. I get there at6:30 or 7:00 [5] o'clock, and then Fmthere till, maybe, 1:00, [6] 1:30,2:00 o'clock and that's it. I want toget [7] out of there.[8] MR. MAKER: Mr. Shulski,you're starting to [9] breathe a littleheavier. Are you feeling okay?[10] THE WITNESS: Yes, Fm allright, I hope. [11] Don't worry aboutit.[12] MR. MAKER: You let meknow if you are [13] starting to feel

[14] THE WITNESS: Don't worryabout it. The [15] hell. If I die, Idie. I don't care.[16] MR. BLEIWEISS: We don'twant to be the cause [17] of that[18] THE WITNESS: You ain't thecause of that. [19] Don't worrybecause the good Lord, be don't wantme [20] anyway.[21] BY MR. BLEIWEISS:[22] Q: You had said that NationalDisposal [23] billed you monthly for

dump fees at the time you [24] werepaying._______________Page 127[I] A: What's that?[2] Q: You had said this morningthat National [3] Disposal sent you abill monthly for the dump [4] fees.[5] A: Yes. I'm pretty sure.[6] Q: At the time that you werepaying.[7] A: Yes.[8] Q: When Johnson Motors waspaying directly, [9] did NationalDisposal bill them directly or did[10] they still bill you?[II] A: Evidently they must havebilled them [12] directly. They didn'tbill me.[13] Q: Do you recall what year itwas that you [14] replaced the barrelswith the one cubic yard -- can [15] Icall them dumpsters? Would that beaccurate?[16] A: No, I really don't know. I'mnot going [17] to guess at it, but --[18] Q: I don't want you to guess.[19] A: I don't know. I know thebarrels were a [20] lot of work.When the containers were there, it's[21] so simple. Back up the truck,hook the container [22] up andeverything goes.[23] Q: I know you said that therewere a lot of [24] the one cubic yardcontainers after they were --Page 128[1] A: I bought them on severaloccasions, I [2] know. A little at atime I keep filling up the [3]departments.[4] Q: Tm just trying to get a betterhandle, [5] if possible, on howmany. [6] Do you think there weremore than ten?[7] A: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.[8] Q: More than 20?[9] A: I think I bought them in lots

of 12. It [10] must have been a lotof them. Offhand, I really [11] don'tknow.[12] Q: Were they all in use at thesame time?[13] A: I think so, yes.[14] Q: Were they all full every day?[15] A: In every department, they hadbarrels [16] setting in the corner fortrash. They put one of [17] thecontainers in place of the barrel.That's [18] all. So there was quite afew of them. I don't [ 19] know howmany I purchased.[20] Q: But on the typical day, evenafter those [21] containers were inplace, all the trash would still [22] fitin the garbage truck you were usingat the [23] time.[24] A: Oh, yes. Every one of themwasn'tPage 129[1] brought out. The janitors onlybrought out the [2] ones that werefull.[3] Q: Okay.[4] A: So every morning we come inthere, [5] Here." They are all linedup outside. Sometimes [6] theremight be 10 of them, sometimesthere might be [7] 40 of them. Whoknows? You know.[8] Q: So just to be sure, I thoughtthat you [9] had said this morningthat none of the refuse went [10]back to Kenosha, but I think youhave told me this [11] afternoon thatsome did after National Disposal [12]kicked you out.[13] A: Yes.[ 14] Q: And also before.[15] A: Then I went back to my oldsystem of (16] recycling everything.[17] Q: Maybe my notes are wrong,but if you did [18] say this morningthat no Johnson Motors refuse went[19] back to Kenosha, that isn'tright.

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[20] A: Oh, no. No, no.[21] Q: Actually, at first JohnsonMotors went [22] back to Kenoshaand again after National Disposal[23] kicked you out.[24] A: Yes. You see, because therewas--I ______ _____Page 130[1] don't know -- some kind of a statelaw or federal [2] law as far as theICC and the MCs are concerned [3]going interstate traveling. InterstateI can drive [4] from Kenosha. That'sin Wisconsin. I can come to [5]Illinois. I can go in one spot and Ican go back [6] to Kenosha, but if Igo to Illinois and then I have [7] togo into a landfill in Illinois, that's a[8] different thing. Then I have gottwo stops in [9] Illinois, you see, sothen I have to have the [10] Illinoislicense and Wisconsin license on the[11] truck. In other words, I have tobuy both [12] licenses.[13] Q: But I think you said thismorning that [14] you did have bothlicenses.[IS] A: Oh, yes, I had them. Onlyon the [16] replacement vehicle,which we snuck in there when [17]this one broke down, then we can'tdo nothing.[18] Q: You just kind of hoped onthose days.[19] A: We just hoped nobody saysnothing. [20] That's all.[21] Q: Okay. When you drove fromKenosha to [22] Waukegan, did youever bring any waste or any other[23] materials with you on the truck?[24] A: No. No, because the truckthat we usedFife 131[1] primarily at Johnson's stood atJohnson's. That [2] was home to --that truck was parked there day and[3] night. It was always there.

Whether it's full or [4] empty, it wasstill there. The one that I went •- [5]I came back and forth always withthe semi or the [6] other open truck,you know, see. and then with that [7]one I put the stuff -- the corrugatedmostly and [8] went back to Kenoshaafter I got done working with [9] thisone.[10] Q: Did you ever take any wastefrom [11] anywhere else other thanJohnson Motors to the [12] NationalDisposal landfill?[13] A: No.[14] Q: Nothing from your yard inKenosha.[15] A: No.[16] Q: Or any of your othercustomers.[17] A: No.[18] Q: Did you ever have AmericanMotors as a [19] customer?[20] A: No. I used to get all thecorrugated [21] from AmericanMotors. They brought it to me. I[22] didn't have to go and get it.[23] Q: They delivered it to you inKenosha.[24] A: They delivered it to my yard,yes._________________Page 132[I] Q: Did they bring you anythingbesides [2] corrugated?[3] A: No. That's all I would accept.That's [4] when Keno Trucking wasdoing the hauling, see. [5] ErnieInfusino used us to do the hauling.He had [6] the contract at AmericanMotors.[7] Q: During the time that yourecycled their [8] corrugated.[9] A: Yes. Our main business waspaper baling [10] and recycling. Thatwas our business.[II] Q: Ernie Infusino was haulingtheir trash.[12] A: Yes. He wasn't hauling thetrash, but [13] he used to haul from

American Motors, see.[14] Q: Was it trash from AmericanMotors that [IS] he hauled?[16] A: I don't know, but I know --he used to [17] haul in his own semi.He used to haul it over to [18] myyard and dump it. That was paperonly.[19] Q: He brought the corrugatedfrom them to [20] you.[21] A: Nothing but corrugated.[22] Q: Did he haul anything else forAmerican [23] Motors, as far as youknow, besides the corrugated [24]which came to your yard?Page 133[I] A: No.[2] Q: Did you ever haveJohns-Manville for a [3] customer?[4] A: No.[5] Q: You told us this morning yousaw Abbott [6] trucks --[7] A: Yes.[8] Q: dumping at the NationalDisposal [9] landfill.[10] A: Yes.[II] Q: Did you see that every timeyou were [12] there?[13] A: Not every time, but, I mean,I know he [14] was there.[15] Q: Did you see it regularly?[16] A: Yes.[17] Q: Would you say you saw it atleast once a [18] week?[19] A: Oh, yes.[20] Q: More than once a week?[21] A: Well, that I can't tell you,but I [22] did -- every once in a whileyou're in there, you [23] see thattruck in there. You get kind of usedto [24] seeing everybody. You waveto the guy and that'sPage 134[1] it.[2] Q: How did you know they wereAbbon [3] trucks?[4] A: They are marked.

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[5] Q: They had "Abbott" written onthe truck?[6] A: Sure.[7] Q: Was it a garbage truck?[8] A: No. No, that wasn't a garbagetruck.[9] Q: What kind of truck was it, ifyou [10] recall?[11] A: No. It was a regular staketruck with a [12] dump on it, andthen after a while it was a [13]semi-dump.[14] Q: Semi-dump is bigger than astake -[15] A: Oh, yes.[16] Q: truck but it dumpsautomatically.[17] A: Yes.[18] Q: You don't ever recall seeingpacker type [19] garbage trucks ofAbbott's.[20] A: I don't think so.[21] Q: Could you see what kind oftrash these [22] Abbott trucks wereun looting?[23] A: No. I don't go look innobody's --1 [24] want to get out ofthere. I don't want to seePage 135[I] there, go investigating anybodyelse.[2] Q: Can you recall any othercompanies, [3] whether they be likean Abbott or a hauling [4] company,either way, whose trucks you saw atthe [5] National Disposal landfill?[6] A: Geez, I don't know. I neverpaid much [7] attention to whatpeople go in there, but I did [8] see -it says Waukegan Disposal.[9] Q: Okay. Any others that youcan think of?[10] A: I really don't -[II] Q: You sat down with theUnited States [12] EnvironmentalProtection Agency in 1989 and they[13] asked you questions similarly tothe way we are [14] doing here.

There was a court reporter. Your[15] answers were transcribed. Thismorning Bill Beck [16] showed youthe transcript from that deposition.[17] In that deposition you had saidthat [18] your Johnson Motorsaccount was five days a week. [ 19]That's at Page 21, if anyone is [20]interested. [21] Today I believe yousaid six days a [22] week. [23] Doyou recall whether it was five or [24]six?_________________Page 136[I] A: I was supposed to go thereEve days a [2] week, but if they werebusy and they worked on [3]Saturday, then they told me, "Yougot to come in [4] tomorrow." Isaid, "Okay." So I come in [5]tomorrow. That's all. But normallyit's five days [6] a week. But thennormally turns into six days a [7]week maybe three months out of theyear so I don't [8] know.[9] Q: Okay. So some significantamount of [10] time.[II] A: Yes.[12] Q: You're estimating perhaps 25percent of [13] the time --[14] A: Oh, yes.[15] Q: it was six days a week andthe other [16] 75 percent it was fivedays a week.[17] A: That's right. I don't know ifyou - [18] whatever way you wantto put it, and then if you [19] wantto be technical about, I have evengone there [20] on Sundays.[21] Q: How often did you do that?[22] A: I don't know, but, I mean,when they [23] requested it, theycalled and they said, "Hey, we [24]got so much stuff here,"blah-blah-blah, so I'll __Page 137[l]go-[2] Q: When you worked on a

Saturday or a [3] Sunday at JohnsonMotors, was it the same procedure[4] and the same amount of work asit was --[5] A: Same routine.[6] Q: Was the landfill open onSaturday and [7] Sunday?[8] A: Oh, yes. Yes.[9] Q: So you actually took trips tothe [10] landfill on those days, too.[11] A: Yes. If I worked on Saturdayand the [12] truck was full, it went tothe landfill.[13] Q: And your best estimate, asfar as you [14] can recall now, isthree months out of the year you [15]would work on a Saturday and --[16] A: On a Sunday depending onhow the [17] holidays fall andanything else, you know. See, [18]like there's going to be a holiday takelike Labor [19] Day. See, nobodywants to work Labor Day, but the[20] garbage man works. See what Imean.[21] Q: Okay. Most of the time didyou go to [22] Johnson Motors fivetimes a week?[23] A: At least, yes. I have alwaysbeen there [24] flve days a weekregardless.Page 138[1] Q: And sometimes, but less thanhalf of the [2] time, you would gothere a sixth time.[3] A: Yes. Go six times.[4] Q: Was there some times thatyou would go [5] seven times?[6] A: Yes.[7] Q: Was that common?[8] A: No. That's very rare, but, youknow, [9] like I says, if a holidayfalls on a certain day, [10] he toldme, he says, "Hey, tomorrow yougot to get [11] in here and get thisdock cleaned, although nobody [12]is going to be here, but, I mean, youstill got to [13] be here," so --

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[14] Q: When that happened, did yougo there on [15] a holiday, too?[16] A: Oh, yes.[17] Q: So that would be a six-tripweek.[18] A: Yes.[19] Q: And you estimated that --1converted [20] your estimate. Yousaid three months out of the [21]year. I converted that to 25 percent.[22] A: Tm just saying.[23] Q: That's your best estimate of

[24] A: I don't have an actualestimate as toPage 139[1] how much, you know. If theyworked on Saturday, I [2] was thereon Saturday.[3] Q: Okay.[4] A: If they were unusually busyfor a [5] holiday, then I was there ona Sunday because the [6] holiday wasthe next day, see.[7] Q: But your recollection is thatmost of [8] the time it was five daysa week.[9] A: Five days, yes.[10] Q: Okay. Also in yourdeposition in 1989 [11] with theU.S. ERA I believe it was yourtestimony [12] that there were acouple of years during the period [ 13]that you served Johnson Motors thatyou lost the [14] contract to someoneelse and then you got it back [15]again. [16] Do you recall that now?[17] A: No, I don't.[18] Q: As best as you can remembertoday, you [19] had it continuallyfrom the time you got it until [20]the time you lost it[21] A: Yes.[22] MR. BLEIWEISS: If I mightjust have two [23] minutes toconsult with my client, I may bedone or [24] very close to it.

Page 140[1] MR. MAKER: Okay.[2] MR. BLEIWEISS: I have five orten more [3] minutes.[4] MR. MAHER: Okay.[5] BY MR. BLEIWEISS:[6] Q: This morning I think you saidthat you [7] sold off your business inthree pieces, is that [8] right?.[9] A: Yes.[10] Q: And you told us, I think, thatErnie [11] Infusino's company, KenoTrucking, bought your [12]corporation.[13] A: Yes.[14] Q: In 71.[15] A: Yes.[16] Q: That was one of the threepieces, I take [17] it.[18] A: Yes.[19] Q: What were the other two?[20] A: Well, I had a private garbageservice, [21] you know, from allhomes in the county.[22] Q: The county being?[23] A: In Kenosha, and I also hadsome parts of [24] Wimhrop Harborand Zion city. I sold all of myPsge 141[I] Illinois to this -- he used to callhimself [2] Shoreline Disposal. So Isold all of my Illinois [3] interests tohim.[4] Q: By all of your Illinoisinterests -[5] A: In other words, that kept meout of [6] Illinois. Well, I was alldone with Johnson Motors [7]anyway.[8] Q: So were your only Illinoisinterests at [9] that time theWinthrop Harbor and Zion city [10]residential?[II] A: That's all.[12] Q: So you sold those toShoreline [13] Disposal.[14] A: Yes. It wasn't thai many of

ihem, but, [15] I mean, there was afew. and then I had private [16]garbage service all over the county ofKenosha that [17] I used to serviceone time a week.[ 18] Q: What happened to that one?[ 19] A: I sold that one to -- what thedevil is [20] his name now? I forgethis name. He's a private [21]individual, and he used to be in thegarbage [22] business.[23] Q: Is he still around?[24] A: I sold that one to him, andthen after aPage 142[1] while he called it -- Tri-CountyDisposal.[2] Q: You don't remember his name.[3] A: No, I don't remember hisname.[4] Q: Did he live up in Wisconsin?[5] A: Yes. Yes, he lives inKenosha, also.[6] Q: And Tri-County Disposal,that's a [7] Wisconsin company.[8] A: Yes, and then - no. When hehad it, it [9] was a different name,and he sold to TK-County. [10] Hesold his business to Tri-County rightafter I [11] sold my accounts to him,then he sold to [12] TH-County, andthen TH-County sold out to Go in[13] Racine, and then the corporationand the balance of [14] the businessand the scrap yard and the whole [15]thing, everything that went with it Isold that to [16] Keno Truck.[17] Q: Now, when you say you soldthe [18] corporation, did you sellKeno the stock in your [19]corporation?[20] A: Yes. I was the onlystockholder [21] anyway.[22] Q: So after the sale then ErnieInfusino [23] became the shareholderin Century Metal [24] corporation.Page 143

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[I] A: He was everything then.[2] Q: He, in turn, sold that businessto Waste [3] Management.[4] A: Yes.[5] Q: What happened to ShorelineDisposal?[6] A: I think he went out ofbusiness in a [7] hurry, too. He wasanother one-truck outfit.[8] Q: Did the Wmthrop Harbor-Zionresidential [9] garbage go to theNational Disposal landfill?[10] A: No, no.[II] Q: Where did that go?[12] A: When I had it you mean? Itwent to [13] Kenosha landfill.[14] Q: As far as you know, did itcontinue to [15] go to Kenosha whenShoreline Disposal had it?[16] A: Yes, and I remember thatShoreline's [17] truck always was inKenosha landfill because he [ 18] usedto live in Kenosha, I think. I can'tremember [19] his name now.[20] Q: Do you know when KenoTrucking sold [21] Century Metal toWaste Management?[22] A: This I do not know.[23] Q: Was it a long time or a shorttime [24] after?Pige 144[I] A: No. It was a short time.[2] Q: Couple years?[3] A: Must have been more than acouple years [4] because I worked forErnie. I was operating his [5]landfill for a couple of years, at least,you know, [6] and then in betweentime being in the hospital and [7]working over there.[8] Q: I understand. [9] Were all threeof these sales since [10] 1971 --[II] A: The what?[12] Q: I think you said you sold the[13] corporation and the balance ofyour business to [14] Keno in 1971,is that right?[15] A: I believe that was right, yes.

[16] Q: Were the other two salesbefore that?[17] A: Yes. Yes. they were beforethat.[18] Q: Would they have been inearlier years [19] than 1971 do youthink?[20] A: They might have been in '70or [21] something, but they wereright close because that [22] was thetime of my trying to get rid of [23]everything. If I couldn't have achance to sell [24] it, Td just have toquit.Page 145[I]Q: I understand.[2] MR. BLEIWEISS: Okay. Ithink Tm done.[3] THE WITNESS: I didn't get ahell of a lot of [4] money for it, but

[5] MR. BLEIWEISS: Something isbetter than [6] nothing.[7] THE WITNESS: It's just enoughto say that I [8] did something.That's all.[9] MR. RODRIGUEZ: I have justgot a couple of [10] questions foryou, Mr. Shulski.[II] FURTHER EXAMINATION[12] BY MR. RODRIGUEZ:[13] Q: Just a minute ago when Mr.Bleiweiss was [ 14] asking youquestions you described a couple of[15] trucks of Abbott's that you sawthere. [16] Can you just tell meagain what types of [ 17] trucks yousaw there?[18] A: Well, one of them --1 don'trecall what [19] kind of a truck itwas, but it looked like a [20] regularstake body truck. It had a dump on it[21] because I didn't see anybodyunloading anything by [22] hand.They dumped it. And then later, youknow, [23] because we admired that Isaid, "Hey, look. They [24] got asemi-dump." It looked like you see

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Page 146[1] around the highway today. Theyhaul gravel, you [2] know, butthere's a semi-truck, but it's also a[3] dump trailer.[4] Q: And you saw one after the firstone.[5] A: Yes.[6] Q: And those were open dumptrucks.[7] A: Oh, yes.[8] Q: And they had Abbott insigniasor they [9] said "Abbott" on it.[10] A: Yes, it said "Abbott" on it.That's why [11] I know.[12] Q: What period of time was itthat you saw [13] those trucks, fromthe beginning that you were [14]there, more towards the end? Whendid you first [15] notice them?[16] A: That I can't tell you.[17] MR. RODRIGUEZ: Okay.That's all I have got, [18] Mike.[19] MR. MAKER: You're done.[20] We will waive signature.[21] FURTHER DEPONENTSAITH NOT. [22] [23] [24]

Page 147[I] STATE OF ILLINOIS)[2] SS:[3] COUNTY OF DU PAGE ) [4] I,MELANTE JAKUS, a Notary Publicwithin [5] and for the County ofDuPage, State of Illinois, [6] and aCertified Shorthand Reporter of saidstate, [7] do hereby certify: [8] Thatprevious to the commencement ofthe [9] examination of the witness,the witness was duly [ 10] sworn totestify the whole truth concerning the[II] matters herein; [12] That theforegoing deposition transcript [13]was reported stenographically by me,was thereafter [14] reduced totypewriting under my personaldirection, [15] and constitutes a true

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record of the testimony [ 16] givenand the proceedings had; [17] Thatthe said deposition was taken [18]before me at the time and placespecified; [ 19] That the reading andsigning by the [20] witness of thedeposition transcript was agreed [21 ]upon as stated herein; [22] That I amnot a relative or employee or [23]attorney or counsel, nor a relative oremployee of [24] such attorney orcounsel for any of the panicsP»g« 148[I] hereto, nor interested directly orindirectly in [2] the outcome of thisaction.[3] IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I dohereunto set my [4] hand and affixmy seal of office at Chicago, [5]Illinois, this day of, [6] 1993. [7] [8] [9] [10] NotaryPublic, DuPage County, Illinois.[II] My commission expires June21, 1997. [12] [13] [14]C.S.R.Certificate No. 84-1733. [15] [16][17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23][24]

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