State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

IN THE IOWA DISTRICT COURT FOR SAC COUNTY

STATE OF IOWA, No. FECR 011900

Plaintiff,

v.

TRACEY ANN RICHTER,

Defendant.

DEPOSITION of MARY HIGGINS, taken on behalf of the Defendant, reported by Robin R. Qualy, CSR, RMR, CRR, starting at 3:29 p.m., on October 10, 2011, at the Sac County Courthouse, Sac City, Iowa.

APPEARANCES

Ben Smith Sac County Attorney 100 N.W. State Street Sac City, IA 50583 On behalf of the Plaintiff.

Scott L. Bandstra Karmen Anderson The Bandstra Law Firm, PC 505 5th Avenue, Suite 810 Des Moines, IA 50309 On behalf of the Defendant.

ALSO PRESENT: Tracey Richter; Robert Powers; Sandra Aschinger, Victim Witness Coordinator; Sac County Deputy Sheriff

2

INDEX

MARY HIGGINS

EXAMINATION By Ms. Anderson .............................3-100 By Mr. Smith ..............................100-103

EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION/PAGE(S)REFERRED TO Y 12/26/01 Interview of Mary Higgins by Lieutenant Cessford ........29,35,48,55,58,75

R2 7/14/11 Interview of Mary Higgins ................................6,70-71,75,99 S2 10/4/11 Interview of Mary Higgins ......89,99

Adjournment at 6:20 p.m. ......................103

Certificate of Reporter .......................104

3

1 * * *

2 MARY HIGGINS

3 sworn by the reporter, testified as follows:

4 EXAMINATION

5 BY MS. ANDERSON:

6 Q. Please state your name, for the record.

7 A. My name is Mary G. Higgins.

8 Q. And, Mary, have you ever been deposed

9 before?

10 A. No, I have not.

11 Q. I'm just going to go over a few ground

12 rules. If you have any questions, stop me at any

13 time.

14 One is that I will ask you a series of

15 questions. I would ask that even if you think you

16 know where I'm going or the answer I'm looking for

17 or something of that nature, that you don't talk

18 at the same time. Robin has a very difficult time

19 typing what we both say at once, so just to make

20 sure we have a clear and accurate record, I would

21 ask that you don't interrupt me and I will do my

22 best not to interrupt you during the course of

23 this.

24 If at any time I ask something that's

25 confusing or you're not clear in any way, please

4

1 stop me and ask me to rephrase, repeat the

2 question, anything you need to understand the

3 question fully and accurately.

4 Can we agree to that?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. What did you do in preparation for your

7 deposition today?

8 A. I read through my statements.

9 Q. And which statements would those be?

10 A. Whatever the -- I don't know. The big,

11 thick one.

12 Q. Okay.

13 A. And then the child custody, and

14 something that Trent had typed up, and that may be

15 all of it. I don't remember.

16 Q. Okay. That's fine. When you say

17 "something that Trent had typed up," are you

18 referring to something that's dated October 4th,

19 2011, or something prior to that?

20 A. If you show it to me, I can tell you.

21 Q. Okay. This is your statement --

22 A. It was after I spoke to him upstairs.

23 Q. Okay. When did you speak with him?

24 A. I don't know the exact date.

25 Q. Okay. Approximately?

State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

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1 A. I can't answer that.

2 Q. Was it last week, last --

3 A. No, no, no, no. Months ago.

4 Q. Oh, okay.

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. So you read through the statement that

7 you gave to Mr. Vileta months ago. Now, was that

8 in July or March of this year?

9 A. Not this.

10 Q. Okay. This is a copy of your March 30th

11 interview, March 30 of 2011?

12 A. This one.

13 Q. Okay. And what else did you do?

14 A. I don't think anything.

15 Q. Did you sit down and talk with Mr.

16 Smith?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Okay. And what did you discuss?

19 A. That I just needed to relax and tell the

20 truth.

21 Q. Did you discuss any particular

22 statements or interviews?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Was it just a 30-second conversation

25 where he just told you to relax and tell the

6

1 truth, or did you go over any documents?

2 A. No, we did not go over any documents.

3 Q. Okay. Let's start, Ms. Higgins, and do

4 you prefer -- I think I called you Mary before.

5 A. Please do.

6 Q. I didn't ask you -- Okay.

7 Let's begin with your July 14th, 2011,

8 interview. Do you remember giving that interview

9 to Mr. Smith, Special Agent Vileta and Sheriff Ken

10 McClure?

11 A. May I see it?

12 Q. Yes, you may, of course. I believe

13 that's the big, thick one that you referred to.

14 A. Yeah. Yes, I do.

15 Q. And at the time of that interview, it's

16 indicated in the recorded -- in the recording of

17 the interview that Mr. Smith showed you some

18 documents prior to starting that interview. Do

19 you recall that?

20 A. No, I do not.

21 MS. ANDERSON: Let's go ahead and mark

22 this.

23 (At this time, Exhibit R2 was marked for

24 identification by the reporter.)

25 BY MS. ANDERSON:

7

1 Q. Actually before we look at this, let's

2 talk a little bit more about your meeting with Mr.

3 Smith. Was that today or was that at a different

4 date?

5 A. Which meeting?

6 Q. The one you had with him when he told

7 you to relax, tell the truth.

8 A. It was a different date.

9 Q. And what day was that, do you recall?

10 A. I was supposed to come in on Monday, I

11 believe, originally.

12 Q. Monday of this week?

13 A. Last --

14 Q. Or last week? I guess it is Monday.

15 A. Last week.

16 Q. Okay, so it would have been last Monday?

17 A. It maybe was Thursday. I'm not certain.

18 Q. Okay. So just to be clear, because I

19 guess I'm a little confused --

20 A. Okay.

21 Q. -- you were supposed to come in on

22 Monday of last week?

23 A. I was deposed for Monday of last week or

24 Friday. I don't know which day. It was changed.

25 Q. Okay. Do you remember which day you

8

1 spoke with Mr. Smith in preparation --

2 A. The day prior to the original date.

3 Q. Okay. And I believe that to be last

4 Thursday.

5 A. Okay. Sorry.

6 Q. I don't know what date. I'll look at my

7 calendar here.

8 Okay, last Thursday would have been

9 October 6th. Does that sound right?

10 A. It was the day before that.

11 Q. Okay. October 6th is a Thursday.

12 A. Okay.

13 Q. October 5th is a Wednesday.

14 A. Okay. It was on the 5th.

15 Q. The 5th?

16 A. Correct. We are working in the fields

17 and we work seven days a week, so I'm not certain

18 on my days right now. I apologize.

19 Q. That's okay. I'm just trying to get a

20 time frame.

21 And was that an in-person discussion?

22 You actually came to Mr. Smith's office?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And how long were you with Mr. Smith

25 approximately?

State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

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1 A. I can't answer that. I don't know.

2 Q. Was it just a few minutes or hours?

3 A. It might have been longer than a few

4 minutes because he had phone calls and he had

5 court -- or I don't know if it was court. He was

6 in and out.

7 Q. Okay.

8 A. So we didn't really get started on

9 anything.

10 Q. Okay.

11 A. He was busy.

12 Q. And when you say "get started on

13 anything," what were you getting started on?

14 A. On discussing -- I didn't -- I've never

15 been deposed before, and I didn't know what would

16 take place, so I just -- He wanted to know if I

17 had any questions about what would take place and,

18 of course, I did.

19 Q. Okay. What were some of those

20 questions?

21 A. Who would be there? Would Tracey be

22 there? Things like that. Things that people who

23 have never been deposed would need to know.

24 Q. Well, and everybody asks different

25 questions, so what are some of the questions that

10

1 you asked of Mr. Smith?

2 A. I don't -- I don't recall. Just your --

3 your regular -- what this all meant and what time

4 do I actually get here and things like that.

5 Q. All right. Let's talk about your July

6 14th, 2011, interview, and I'm going to go ahead

7 and -- That's your copy to use while we go through

8 this.

9 A. Okay.

10 Q. Now, on Page 1, Line 19 indicates that

11 Mr. Smith said to you, "Here, before you start,

12 this is what I pulled -- this is what Tracey had

13 given to -- this is your testimony."

14 A. Okay.

15 Q. And you said, "My testimony?" And he

16 says, "At the time -- at the -- at her trial."

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. And what did Mr. Smith show to you at

19 that time?

20 A. He showed me basically -- I didn't see

21 much of it. It really wasn't discussed very long,

22 but it was the child custody trial that I

23 testified in Tracey's behalf.

24 Q. Okay. And so you said you didn't

25 discuss it very long but here it indicates on Line

11

1 49 that there was a pause of approximately seven

2 minutes and 15 seconds?

3 A. Uh-huh.

4 Q. While you guys left the room?

5 A. We went from that room down to another

6 room and then sat down. We only discussed two

7 things in that.

8 Q. And what two things did you discuss?

9 A. He wanted to know if I was really Noah

10 and Mae's godmother, which I am, and -- What was

11 the other? I don't recall the other thing.

12 Q. Okay, and if you think about it while

13 we're --

14 A. Okay.

15 Q. -- talking here, please let me know and

16 we can fill in. I left a blank for it on my paper

17 here --

18 A. Okay.

19 Q. -- and we can fill that in, or if you

20 think of it after this deposition is over, please

21 let Mr. Smith know and he can --

22 A. Okay.

23 Q. -- communicate that to me.

24 How long have you known Ms. Richter?

25 And I'm referring to Tracey Roberts Richter. How

12

1 long have you known Ms. Richter?

2 A. I'm not certain of the exact date

3 anymore, but since she moved in to Early.

4 Q. And approximately when was that?

5 A. I -- I'm guessing 13 years ago.

6 Q. So that would have been 1998?

7 A. If you say so.

8 Q. Well, that's -- I don't know. That's --

9 A. I don't know. I'm going to answer with:

10 I don't know.

11 Q. Okay. And describe for me your

12 relationship with Ms. Richter.

13 A. Now? Or before? At what point?

14 Q. Let's start with before. Before today,

15 what was your relationship with Ms. Richter?

16 A. It was good. We were friends. I

17 considered her a very good friend.

18 Q. And when did you and -- when did you

19 decide that you liked Ms. Richter?

20 A. Right away.

21 Q. So you met Ms. Richter presumably in

22 1998, 13 years ago, and you decided immediately

23 that you liked her?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. And you became good friends?

State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

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1 A. Correct.

2 Q. Is that different than your relationship

3 with her today?

4 A. I don't know. I don't have a

5 relationship with her now.

6 Q. Okay. When did your relationship with

7 her cease?

8 A. It pretty much ceased when I wouldn't

9 call her Sophie.

10 Q. Okay. And do you remember what time

11 frame that was?

12 A. The only thing I can tell you was it was

13 in the fall. I don't remember -- Because we were

14 harvesting again.

15 Q. Okay. Fall of what year?

16 A. I cannot tell you. I don't know.

17 Q. Was it while Ms. Richter was still

18 living in Early?

19 A. No, it was not.

20 Q. Okay, where was she living at the time?

21 A. Omaha.

22 Q. Okay.

23 A. In an apartment.

24 Q. And while you lived in Early together,

25 how often did you see Ms. Richter?

14

1 A. I guess I need that clarified. What do

2 you call "see"? Like just see her in the car

3 passing?

4 Q. No.

5 A. See her when I dropped the kids off or

6 actually speak to her?

7 Q. I would say it's inclusive of times you

8 actually dropped the kids off, times you actually

9 spoke with her.

10 A. I can't put a number on it. Several.

11 Q. Several as in three or four?

12 A. A week? A year? A month? What's the

13 time frame?

14 Q. Fair enough. Well, let's just start

15 there. When you were living in Early --

16 A. I still live in Early.

17 Q. At the same time as Ms. Richter.

18 A. Okay.

19 Q. Did you see her on a weekly basis?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Did you see her on a daily basis?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Okay. Was it once a week, twice a week?

24 A. You're including when I would drop the

25 children off and she'd wave to me from the door?

15

1 I mean, I need to know.

2 Q. Okay. How many times did you actually

3 speak with Tracey per week while you were both

4 living in Early together?

5 A. Not as much as see her, you know.

6 Q. Right.

7 A. In the beginning, maybe once a week,

8 maybe twice a week.

9 Q. Okay.

10 A. That would be my guess.

11 Q. This is while she was living in Early?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. How many times did you actually go to

14 her house, like to drop kids off? Whether you

15 spoke with her or not, how many times did you

16 actually go to her house on a weekly basis?

17 A. I would usually drop Bert off almost --

18 almost five days a week.

19 Q. And out of those five days,

20 approximately one or two you would see Tracey?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. And speak with her?

23 A. I'm not saying I spoke to her, but she

24 would wave at me.

25 I need to clarify that. I would speak

16

1 to her over the phone or she would stick her head

2 out and say hello at least twice a week.

3 I would go to her home for coffee maybe

4 two or three times a month.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. Now, it would be more often that she

7 would stick her head out and just wave, you know,

8 kind of a nice ...

9 Q. Uh-huh, sure. But you went to her house

10 for coffee and to chat or whatever two to three

11 times a month?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay.

14 A. Yes. I would see her more than that,

15 not just at her home, but -- I don't know

16 where you're at.

17 Q. No, that's -- There's no --

18 A. Okay. I'm sorry.

19 Q. I'm just trying to get information.

20 A. Okay.

21 Q. How often would Tracey come to your home

22 during the time period that you both lived in

23 Early?

24 A. Once again, are we speaking to pick her

25 children up or are we speaking to actually come

State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

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1 into my home?

2 Q. Actually coming into your home.

3 A. From the time I knew her, from the day I

4 knew her to the time she moved to Omaha? Is that

5 the time frame?

6 Q. Yes.

7 A. Okay.

8 Q. I mean, I assume she didn't come over as

9 often once she moved to Omaha.

10 A. She didn't. As a matter of fact, I

11 didn't see her again.

12 Q. Okay.

13 A. I'm going to say she was in my home that

14 I knew of -- I'm going to reach and say ten.

15 Q. Times a month?

16 A. No, no, no.

17 Q. Total?

18 A. Total.

19 Q. And you indicated that she came to your

20 house to pick up her kids.

21 A. Her son usually, just one, Bert.

22 Q. Okay, Bert. And how often would she

23 come or how often would Bert visit your home?

24 A. Not often. I can't -- I cannot put a

25 number on that.

18

1 Q. After December 13th, 2001, did you

2 continue to pick Bert up from school?

3 A. That was after the attack?

4 Q. Yes.

5 A. Yes, I did.

6 Q. And how long did that go on for?

7 A. Until they moved to Storm Lake.

8 Q. And after December 13th, 2001, did you

9 continue to come over to Ms. Richter's home?

10 A. Yes, I did.

11 Q. Did anything about your relationship

12 change? You still came over for coffee?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Three to four times a month?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. During the time that Ms. Richter lived

17 in Early, describe for me your interactions with

18 Mr. Roberts.

19 A. Will you ask me that again, please?

20 Q. During the time that Ms. Richter lived

21 in Early --

22 A. Uh-huh.

23 Q. -- describe your interactions with Mr.

24 Roberts, Michael Roberts.

25 A. They were -- One on one, very few, not a

19

1 lot. My friendship was with Tracey, not her

2 husband.

3 Q. Right. But did you ever interact with

4 Mr. Roberts during that time?

5 A. From the time I met Tracey?

6 Q. Yes.

7 A. Rarely, but yes, yes.

8 Q. What were some of those times that you

9 spoke with him?

10 A. When he would maybe come out to the

11 truck when I had Bert or I would drop something

12 off. Not -- I can't recall.

13 Q. You don't recall any specific

14 interactions with Mr. Roberts?

15 A. I can't answer that.

16 Q. You can't answer that or you don't know?

17 A. I don't remember.

18 Q. Okay.

19 MR. SMITH: Maybe if you clarify what an

20 interaction is.

21 MS. ANDERSON: Well, I just asked when

22 she had spoken with Mr. Roberts, times when she

23 had spoken to him.

24 A. Well, I would say hello as I was going

25 into the house.

20

1 Q. What about any specific conversations

2 you had with Mr. Roberts?

3 A. I don't remember at this point. I

4 didn't care for him and he didn't care for me, so

5 it was -- He told me -- He told me that Tracey

6 was -- You know, it would be like if I was there

7 to see Tracey, he would say that they were going

8 to the gun club, and he told me that Tracey, you

9 know, was a really good shot and just very -- I

10 don't know.

11 Q. Well, you just indicated that you didn't

12 like Mr. Roberts. I mean, what made you dislike

13 him?

14 A. He was one of those people that preaches

15 the Bible more than I want to hear. That started

16 it.

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. And he bragged. He was a braggart. He

19 bragged about what he had, and he bragged, you

20 know -- He would -- He would explain that he --

21 you know, how much he loves his wife, and he just

22 wasn't my kind of person that I wanted to spend a

23 lot of time with.

24 Q. Okay. You also indicated that Michael

25 Roberts didn't like you. What led you to that

State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

21

1 conclusion?

2 A. I felt that he wanted to spend about as

3 much time with me as I did with him.

4 Q. Okay, what made you feel that way?

5 A. Just very short, "Hello," "Hello." I

6 wouldn't allow my children over there, and I think

7 he knew that. And later, as things progressed ...

8 Q. Later things progressed?

9 A. As our friendship progressed, as I got

10 to know him a little better, I just -- it

11 wasn't -- it wasn't -- he wasn't a person -- he

12 wasn't somebody that I had to be around, so,

13 therefore, I was not going to be around.

14 Q. Okay. Did you have any concerns about

15 the safety of the Roberts's children, Noah, Mae

16 and Bert?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. What were those concerns?

19 A. My concern was that somebody was beating

20 Bert.

21 Q. And who did you think was beating Bert?

22 A. I was told that it was Mike.

23 Q. Who told you?

24 A. Anna, Bert and Tracey.

25 Q. Did you ever notice any unexplained

22

1 bruises or welts yourself?

2 A. On who?

3 Q. On Bert.

4 A. Yes, I did.

5 Q. And when was that?

6 A. I cannot give you a date.

7 Q. Was it while they were living in Early?

8 A. Yes, it was.

9 Q. Was it in the beginning of your

10 friendship with Tracey?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. So you noticed them immediately?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Well, how close to the beginning of the

15 relationship was it?

16 A. It was before the attack.

17 Q. Okay. And where did you believe those

18 bruises and welts came from?

19 A. I believed they came from Mike.

20 Q. And how did you see these bruises or

21 welts or learn about them?

22 A. Some of them I learned through my son.

23 Some of them I saw. One of them I saw.

24 Q. What one did you see?

25 A. I saw a little welt on his arm, on

23

1 Bert's arm. I saw Bert's broken nose, and that's

2 all I can remember at this time.

3 Q. Okay. You said you learned about some

4 of them from your son. What did your son tell

5 you?

6 A. He told me that they -- he and Bert were

7 swimming, and Bert went to get out of the swimming

8 pool, and his swimming suit came down, you know,

9 over his rear end a little bit, and there were

10 marks, and he asked what those marks were, and he

11 said that Mike would hit him with a rod, and

12 Daniel came home and told me.

13 Q. And when you learned about this, did you

14 do anything?

15 A. I don't know that I did at that time.

16 Q. Okay. What time did you do something

17 about it?

18 A. I don't remember what -- I can't

19 remember what the catalyst was to make me make a

20 phone call, but I called -- One time I called the

21 school. One time I called here in Sioux City.

22 Q. Here in Sioux City or Sac City?

23 A. Or Sac City.

24 Q. And who did you call in Sac City?

25 A. I believe I called -- I can't remember

24

1 the order of who I called first, but I think

2 originally I called the school, and then it didn't

3 seem that anything was getting done, and so then I

4 called -- I believe I spoke to someone and asked

5 them, who do I call? And I don't remember to this

6 day who it was. I called like DHS -- I don't know

7 what -- I don't even know -- It was one of

8 those -- They gave me a name of someone to call.

9 I had to look it up in the phone book.

10 Q. Who did? Who gave you the name of

11 somebody to call?

12 A. I can't remember who told me. When I --

13 When it didn't seem like anything happened at the

14 school, I called -- I made a phone call to someone

15 here in Sac City, and they told me -- I gave them

16 my name. I believe I gave them my name, and they

17 told me that it was already -- that Mike already

18 had a record -- a file in Fort Dodge. I didn't

19 know what that --

20 Q. They said that Mike already had a file

21 in Fort Dodge?

22 A. Correct. I didn't know what that meant.

23 Q. And when would this have been?

24 A. Prior to the attack.

25 Q. And how long prior to the attack?

State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

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1 A. I can't answer that.

2 Q. A long time? A few days?

3 A. No. Months.

4 Q. How many?

5 A. I can't answer that. I don't know.

6 Q. Do you remember the season?

7 A. No, I do not.

8 Q. Okay. You indicated that you called the

9 school but you didn't think anything was being

10 done. What made you believe this?

11 A. I thought -- I guess I thought I would

12 see -- I would see it with my own eyes that

13 something was going to change or -- I don't know.

14 I don't know. It just didn't feel like things

15 were changing in the home.

16 Q. And why didn't you feel things were

17 changing?

18 A. It just didn't feel any different. It

19 just -- Bert seemed frightened. Noah was

20 frightened one time when Mike came into the house,

21 and Tracey was making cookies. It just -- It

22 still felt like something wasn't right.

23 Q. Okay. You just indicated that Noah

24 seemed frightened when Mike came into the home.

25 Tell me about that.

26

1 A. Tracey was making chocolate chip

2 cookies, and I took Noah and popped him up on the

3 counter, and then I sat up on the counter, and I

4 was teaching Noah -- I was showing Noah that you

5 can eat raw cookie dough, and Tracey didn't want

6 me to feed him raw cookie dough because there were

7 raw eggs in it, and I told Noah that, you know,

8 you can eat raw cookie dough, and Mike came in to

9 get -- I don't know what he came in for, but he

10 came into the kitchen, and he reached up into the

11 cupboard, I'm assuming to get a glass, and when he

12 did that, he reached across where Noah was, and

13 Noah just kind of flinched, like -- like I

14 thought -- I felt that Noah was frightened that

15 maybe he was going to get hit. I don't know that

16 for a fact. I felt that as a mother.

17 Q. You also indicated that you believe Bert

18 was still frightened. Why did you believe that?

19 A. Because Bert would do anything in his

20 power not to have to go home.

21 Q. Like what?

22 A. He would -- He would -- I would try to

23 take him home like I did almost five days a week,

24 and he would tell me that, you know, I didn't

25 understand, that really he was supposed to come to

27

1 my house and his mother would pick me up -- him up

2 there. It just -- As a mom, it just didn't feel

3 like a good situation.

4 Q. Okay, you called the school, and then

5 you indicated that you called somebody else. Is

6 there anything more that you did?

7 A. No, there isn't.

8 Q. Did you ever talk to Tracey about it?

9 A. No, I did not. I didn't know -- I

10 didn't know who -- I didn't know where it was

11 coming from. I've never witnessed anything like

12 this.

13 Q. Were you aware that Mr. Roberts would

14 frequently go paintballing?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Did your children ever go paintballing

17 with him?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Why was that?

20 A. I'm against paintball guns and

21 paintballs. I feel that if you're going to give

22 someone a gun and fire something out of it that's

23 going to hurt, that it's the wrong thing to teach

24 your children. If you're going to point a gun at

25 someone and fire it, someone could get hurt or

28

1 killed. I did not believe in paintball guns. I

2 still don't believe in them.

3 Q. Did you ever have any issues with Mr.

4 Roberts and paintballing?

5 A. I didn't myself, but my son did.

6 Q. Okay. And what was that about?

7 A. He told he and Bert that they could run

8 from tree to tree and he was going to fire on

9 them, and if they got to the tree, he wouldn't hit

10 them. You know, once they got to the tree, it was

11 like base, and so then he wouldn't fire on them

12 once they got to that tree.

13 Q. And how old was your son at that time?

14 A. Well, how old was Bert at the time of

15 the attack? 10?

16 Q. That was in 2001, so how old would your

17 son have been?

18 A. Well, Daniel is 23, and Bert's a year

19 younger.

20 Q. What year was your son born?

21 A. Oh. I don't know.

22 Q. What year would this have been that --

23 A. I can't answer --

24 Q. -- the paintballing incident occurred?

25 A. I can't -- I don't -- I don't know.

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29

1 Q. I'm going to take that back from you for

2 just a moment.

3 A. Oops.

4 Q. Thank you. You had an interview with

5 Special Agent Vileta on March 30th, 2011. Is that

6 true?

7 A. I don't know. I'd need to see it, to

8 make sure the date.

9 Q. Do you remember having an interview with

10 Mr. Vileta in March of this year?

11 A. I'm not sure of the date.

12 Q. Okay. But was it in March of this year?

13 A. I'm not sure of that. I'm assuming you

14 probably have that.

15 Q. Okay. And I'll show you the interview

16 and let you review it for just a moment, and I'm

17 referring to what's already been previously marked

18 as Exhibit Y.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Who initiated that interview?

21 A. Ben did. Mr. Smith.

22 Q. And why did Mr. Smith initiate that

23 interview?

24 A. He told me that I need to -- the DCI

25 needed to speak to me.

30

1 Q. And did he tell you why DCI needed to

2 speak with you?

3 A. That they had -- they were looking into

4 this case.

5 Q. Prior to that point, did you approach

6 Mr. Smith or the DCI about anything regarding this

7 case?

8 A. Did I go to them?

9 Q. Yes.

10 A. No.

11 Q. And on that interview on March 30, 2011,

12 where did it take place?

13 A. In Ben's office.

14 Q. How long did it last?

15 A. I can't answer that.

16 Q. Approximately?

17 A. I can't answer that.

18 Q. Were you there half a day? Were you

19 there just a few minutes?

20 A. I was not there half a day.

21 Q. Okay. Were you there several hours?

22 A. Prob- -- I don't know.

23 Q. Okay, best guess, Ms. Higgins.

24 A. An hour. I'm not going to guess. No.

25 I don't know how long I was there.

31

1 Q. What time did the interview start?

2 A. 4:30.

3 Q. P.m.?

4 A. Uh-huh.

5 Q. And what time did you get home?

6 A. I can't an- -- I don't know.

7 Q. Did you get home in time for supper?

8 A. No. But I -- I don't know how long that

9 interview was.

10 Q. Was it a rushed interview?

11 A. No.

12 Q. So you had ample time to discuss all of

13 your knowledge regarding the case?

14 A. It wasn't -- It wasn't ample time to

15 discuss my knowledge of the case. It was more

16 time for me to -- I didn't -- I didn't want to

17 participate. I didn't understand this. It was

18 more of a time for me to become comfortable.

19 Q. Okay. Did you have anywhere to be --

20 A. No.

21 Q. -- that night?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Did anybody else indicate that they had

24 someplace else that they needed to be at a certain

25 time?

32

1 A. No.

2 Q. And was this your first interview with

3 law enforcement since 2002?

4 A. I'm assuming. I don't know when my -- I

5 need to see -- I don't know my day -- I don't know

6 the dates. It's been years.

7 Q. Okay. Have you ever spoken with Special

8 Agent Vileta before?

9 A. No.

10 Q. And during this interview, you indicated

11 that on two occasions Ms. Richter had told you

12 that Michael -- or that Mona Wehde, I'm sorry, had

13 broken into the office to steal divorce-related

14 documents. Is that true?

15 A. Tracey told me this; is that what you're

16 saying?

17 Q. Yes, and you told Mr. Vileta that on

18 March 30, 2011?

19 A. I don't know the date, but yes.

20 Q. During your first interview with Special

21 Agent Vileta?

22 A. I don't know if it was my first

23 interview or my third interview. I don't -- I

24 don't know. My world was dropping out from

25 underneath me.

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33

1 Q. Okay, why was your world dropping out

2 from underneath you, Ms. Higgins?

3 A. Because a very good friend of mine, who

4 I thought was a very good friend, it was looking

5 like maybe possibly she had done something

6 horrific.

7 Q. And you never believed prior to that

8 interview that she had done something horrific?

9 A. No, that's not true. I questioned it.

10 Q. And why would this tear your world

11 apart?

12 A. Because she was my friend. I've known

13 her for 12, 13 years. I celebrated birthdays with

14 her. I celebrated Christmases with her. I took

15 her kids home from school. I worried about her.

16 I prayed for her.

17 Q. In your March 30th, 2011, interview with

18 Mr. Vileta, you indicated that Tracey had told you

19 that Mona broke into the office to steal divorce

20 documents. You answered "True" to that statement,

21 that you had told him?

22 A. She told me.

23 Q. Right. And you communicated that to Mr.

24 Vileta?

25 A. Yes.

34

1 Q. And if it's in his March 30th report, do

2 you have any reason to believe that that wasn't

3 the time you told him that?

4 A. No. No, I don't.

5 Q. And you indicated that Ms. Richter told

6 you about Mona Wehde breaking into the office

7 prior to December 13, 2001, correct?

8 A. Correct. I don't know that she had to

9 break in. I believe she had a key.

10 Q. But that she had went into the office

11 and stolen documents?

12 A. I don't know that she stole the

13 documents but she had read the documents. She

14 knew about the documents, divorce documents, tax

15 documents. I knew that.

16 Q. Okay. And did you have any reason to

17 believe that wasn't true?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Did you ever get any information that

20 led you to believe that it was, in fact, true?

21 A. Is that the same question over again?

22 Q. No, you said you had no reason to

23 believe that it wasn't true.

24 Did you ever get any other information

25 to confirm that it was, in fact, true?

35

1 A. No.

2 Q. Did Mr. Roberts ever say anything to you

3 about it?

4 A. No. He came in one time and told Tracey

5 while I was sitting there that he had spoken to

6 Mona and she was not going to do that again.

7 Q. And when would this have been?

8 A. I don't know. Prior to the attack.

9 Q. Okay. Okay, in the statement that you

10 made to Mr. Vileta -- or in the interview that you

11 had with Special Agent Vileta on March 30, 2011,

12 you state that you guessed Tracey Roberts was

13 trying to blame Mona Wehde for the journal by

14 saying Mona Wehde broke into the office. Explain

15 that statement.

16 A. Where is that? Can I read that?

17 Q. Sure. It's on Page 2.

18 A. Okay.

19 Q. Paragraph 2, the last sentence. And

20 just to be clear, we're still on Exhibit Y.

21 A. Page 2.

22 Q. Yes, Page 2.

23 A. Okay, paragraph?

24 Q. 2.

25 A. Oh, I'm sorry. Right. Okay. That

36

1 statement's kind of -- that paragraph's kind of --

2 I'm taking kind of two things and I'm sliding them

3 together. This was me kind of thinking out loud.

4 Q. Okay. Why did you think that?

5 A. Well, because I -- When she told me what

6 was in that journal, I didn't know how Dustin

7 could possibly get that information. I couldn't

8 get that information. And so I just -- Now that

9 things are looking like Tracey had more to do with

10 this, I thought maybe that's how Tracey was

11 working this out in her head.

12 It was me thinking out loud. I didn't

13 understand really when this was taken that, you

14 know -- That paragraph is -- I'm the first one to

15 admit, it's partial what I was told and partially

16 what I was thinking.

17 Q. Told by whom?

18 A. Tracey.

19 Q. And what did Tracey tell you about the

20 journal to give you that indicator that she was

21 trying to blame Mona Wehde for it?

22 A. Well, prior to this, she told me that

23 Mona had been in the office on two separate

24 occasions, and then later, when she told me that

25 there was a notebook, she told me that it had

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37

1 information in it about John Pitman, how to

2 contact him. There was a -- There was something

3 in there about a friend of John Pitman's and that

4 Dustin Wehde had been in contact with him, and

5 she -- he, Dustin, knew how to contact John

6 Pitman.

7 And I thought -- When she told me this

8 originally, I thought, how did this child get this

9 information? I went for years trying to get this

10 information because I needed to tell his father

11 that that kid was getting the fuck beat out of

12 him, but I could never get ahold of that

13 information, and this kid did, and I thought the

14 only way he could get it is if somebody told him.

15 If -- Maybe -- That's where I'm thinking out.

16 Maybe that's how this child got information that I

17 couldn't.

18 Q. Okay. And you just stated that he,

19 Bert, was being severely beaten. I won't repeat

20 your words, but I think "severe" probably is a

21 good synonym; would you agree?

22 A. I agree.

23 Q. Okay. So during this time you believe

24 that Bert Pitman was being severely beaten, yet

25 you only call the school once and DHS once, is

38

1 that correct?

2 A. That's correct.

3 Q. And you never bring it up with Ms.

4 Richter?

5 A. No.

6 Q. And she was your best friend, but you

7 thought that she might have something to do with

8 these beatings?

9 A. I didn't know who was dealing with --

10 who was doing these beatings, but it seemed very

11 odd to me -- I didn't want to get things -- I

12 didn't want to make things worse for Bert or for

13 those two children, and it just seemed odd to me

14 that her kids getting beat and all this is going

15 on -- She had a fabulous support group. It

16 appeared to me -- She had a mother and a father.

17 She had me. And she didn't take those kids out of

18 the home.

19 Q. Okay, but what you're telling me is you

20 thought Tracey might have had something to do with

21 it; you didn't know who was beating Bert?

22 A. I didn't know for certain. I thought it

23 was Mike, but when Tracey didn't take those kids

24 out of the home when she could have gotten them

25 out of the home, I wasn't certain what was going

39

1 on in that home and I wasn't about ready, you

2 know, to start waving my arms because I didn't

3 know what was going to happen.

4 I have never -- I've never been -- I've

5 never even had a speeding ticket. I have never

6 been a part of something like this, and I didn't

7 know how to handle it, and maybe I handled it

8 wrong. I don't know. But I'm not going to blame

9 myself for what took place. I tried the best I

10 could. I did not know how to handle it.

11 Q. You state, again to Special Agent Vileta

12 on March 30th of 2011, that you spoke with Tracey

13 regarding the December 13th, 2001, attack.

14 When was the first time you spoke with

15 her about it?

16 A. Ask me that again, please.

17 Q. When was the first time that you spoke

18 with Ms. Richter about the December 13th, 2001,

19 attack?

20 A. It would have been right after she came

21 home from Australia. She called me and asked me

22 if I could come in for coffee. That exact date, I

23 don't know. I do this: It was on a Saturday.

24 Q. Do you know the month?

25 A. I do not.

40

1 Q. You know it was on a Saturday but you

2 don't know the month?

3 A. I don't know the month. It was a

4 Saturday because my son had a friend spend the

5 night, and he had to go back -- I had to get him

6 back for a birthday party.

7 Q. What year was it?

8 A. It would have been following -- right

9 after they came home from Australia.

10 Q. Okay. When would that have been?

11 A. I don't know.

12 Q. You don't know what year she got home

13 from Australia?

14 A. It would have been the same year of that

15 attack.

16 Q. So it would have been in 2001? Was it

17 in December?

18 A. I don't know when she came home from

19 that. It would have been probably after that,

20 because it was shortly -- The attack happened on

21 the 13th, I think, of December. I'm not certain.

22 It's been, what, ten years. I'm not certain of

23 the date. I am certain of other things. I am not

24 certain of the exact date.

25 Q. Okay. I just want to be clear. You can

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41

1 remember that it was on Saturday --

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. -- but you can't remember the year?

4 A. No. It was the year that she -- that

5 attack happened. Was it in January? I don't

6 know. Was it still in December? I don't know.

7 It was when she came home, she called me and said

8 she needed to talk to me.

9 Q. Okay. Where did that discussion take

10 place?

11 A. It took place in her home.

12 Q. Where at in her home?

13 A. In the sunroom.

14 Q. Were you asked after the December 13,

15 2001, attack to go into Tracey's home?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. What were you asked to do?

18 A. To clean up things that they would have

19 just, like, left because she left in a hurry -- or

20 I don't mean like she ran, but she went -- After

21 the attacks, she went to her parents' home, and

22 then it's my understanding she went from her

23 parents' home to Australia. I don't know that she

24 ever went back to the house.

25 Q. Okay. And so you went into the house?

42

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. And what did you do there?

3 A. Anna asked me to go to the house, and I

4 helped, as I said, you know, take diapers out,

5 take garbage out, took a -- the lamb -- well, we

6 took the lamb roast out of the Crock-Pot, things

7 like that.

8 Q. Okay. What else did you do?

9 A. I looked at the house. Specify, please.

10 Q. What did you do? You went into the

11 home. Tell me what you did. Walk me through it.

12 A. We went in -- Anna -- We went into the

13 home, looked at the Crock-Pot. The Crock-Pot had

14 been unplugged. Anna was dealing with the roast.

15 She told me that Tracey wanted me to have --

16 Before we went into the home, she told me that

17 Tracey wanted me to have a cheesecake that she

18 had, and to this day I thought that -- I still

19 think that's odd, but she wanted me to have the

20 cheesecake that was in the freezer.

21 We went into the home. Anna kind of

22 dealt with the roast. I went and looked for

23 garbage that maybe didn't get taken out before

24 they left on a trip -- the trip.

25 I went upstairs and looked for diapers.

43

1 I walked past the bedroom, but I don't believe at

2 that time I went into the bedroom. I went into

3 the bathroom.

4 I came down. Anna asked me if I wanted

5 to see the bedroom where it happened. I didn't

6 really want to, but yet I guess I did.

7 So Anna and I went upstairs, and Anna

8 showed me where the attack had happened, and I saw

9 that the floor was all shot up and the TV was shot

10 and the bed was shot, and Anna said this is where

11 it happened.

12 Q. Did you do anything else in that

13 bedroom?

14 A. I did.

15 Q. What did you do?

16 A. I -- I looked at the situation -- I

17 looked at the room. I looked at the bed. And

18 Anna had told me what had happened, and it just

19 didn't look right to me. There -- there wasn't --

20 First of all, the room is shot all to hell, and

21 then -- it didn't appear to me that Tracey --

22 Standing in the doorway, it didn't appear that

23 Tracey could get between the bed and the wall and

24 get down in there, A; B, that anyone could

25 possibly pull her out of that or even try to pull

44

1 her out of that.

2 And so I walked over, and I probably --

3 I probably weigh 115 pounds now, and I probably

4 weighed 110 pounds then, and I'm 5 foot 2, and so

5 I walked over and I tried to wedge myself down in

6 there, and I had a hell of a time. I could not --

7 I could not get it in my head that this is how

8 this happened.

9 And Anna kind of hurried me out, and we

10 went back downstairs. I told Anna that I didn't

11 find any diapers in the -- in the bathroom, I

12 believe, and we went back downstairs, and she

13 said, "Tracey wants you to have this cheesecake,"

14 and I said, "Tracey [sic], my kids don't even like

15 cheesecake," and she said, "No, Tracey wanted you

16 to have this. She wanted you to have this

17 cheesecake," and I said that I didn't -- I didn't

18 want the cheesecake, and so she said, "Well,

19 there's a deep-dish pizza. How about that?" And

20 so I took the pizza, I believe Anna took the

21 cheesecake, which just seemed like odd. It was

22 frozen. I didn't know why we had to take anything

23 food-wise.

24 And Anna said -- wondered if my dogs

25 would eat the lamb roast, and I said, no, I didn't

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45

1 want to bring that home to the dogs. So she was

2 going to bring it home to her dog. And we left.

3 Q. Okay. And you stated that Anna was in

4 the room when you tried to get down into between

5 the bed and the wall?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. Okay. Now, so you got down on the floor

8 and tried to --

9 A. I didn't get all the way down onto the

10 floor. I just tried to wedge myself and tried to

11 figure out how -- how this happened, and I

12 couldn't get myself -- I mean, I would really have

13 to work to get myself in there, and it just didn't

14 appear that -- It just didn't appear that I could

15 get that done very easily, and if I did, you'd

16 have a hell of a time getting me out of there.

17 Q. Okay. Prior to this getting in between

18 the bed and the wall, you had found something on

19 the stairs that you believe to be brain matter.

20 Is that --

21 A. I did not believe that to be brain

22 matter. I did not know what it was. I asked

23 Tracey later what was on the stairs, and she told

24 me that it was brain matter.

25 Q. Did you ask her how it got there?

46

1 A. She said it was from Dustin. How it got

2 there, I don't know. I didn't understand, no.

3 Q. It's my recollection that you -- in this

4 March 30, 2011, you also state to Special Agent

5 Vileta that Tracey Roberts is a horrible mother

6 and treated Bert like shit. Do you recall making

7 those statements?

8 A. I barely do, but I think I can stand by

9 that statement.

10 Q. Okay. So you thought she was a horrible

11 mother and she treated Bert like shit?

12 A. As time progressed. I didn't

13 originally, but it -- it -- it always goes back to

14 the same thing of: This abuse was taking place in

15 the home and she didn't leave and she didn't get

16 him out of there.

17 Q. Okay. You also stated to Special Agent

18 Vileta that Bert was raised by a wolf, meaning

19 Tracey Roberts?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And that he was bred to lie. Do you

22 recall making those statements to Special Agent

23 Vileta?

24 A. I do. I do. I do.

25 Q. And during the same interview, you

47

1 allege that Ms. Richter told you about two

2 different notebooks. Do you recall that?

3 A. I do. Which -- I do. Okay. I don't

4 know where it's at. Where is that? I know what

5 you're talking about. Oh, right here.

6 Q. Did you tell him --

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. -- that there were two notebooks found?

9 A. Well, I was told by Tracey that there

10 were two notebooks on two different occasions.

11 Not at the same time. Tracey told me there was

12 one notebook. That was in the car. That was a

13 different time. And then later -- And I know

14 you're going to ask me the time and the date, and

15 I cannot give that to you.

16 Later, quite some time later, weeks

17 later, she told me that -- about a second notebook

18 that was found with his computer, Dustin's

19 computer, personal computer, in their basement, in

20 Dustin's basement.

21 Now, I think it says, if I remember

22 right, that she told me that it had -- that the

23 notebook had pornography in it. I don't know what

24 was in that notebook. What had pornography, she

25 told me in it, was Dustin's computer and it would

48

1 prove that Dustin was gay.

2 Q. Okay. And I'm just referring to Page 1

3 of Exhibit Y where you indicate that "Tracey

4 Roberts told Higgins the police had found two

5 notebooks."

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. "One was with the computer in Dustin's

8 car, the other was at Dustin's house."

9 A. Correct. But that was on two -- That's

10 two different --

11 Q. And then you tell Special Agent Vileta

12 that "Tracey Roberts stated one of the notebooks

13 had pornography all over it and the other

14 contained personal information about her and her

15 son, Bert." Did you tell Special Agent Vileta

16 that?

17 A. I don't remember. It -- That's -- But

18 that's not -- Like I said, I don't know what was

19 in the notebook at the home. I know what she told

20 me was in the notebook in the car, and I don't

21 know what was in the notebook at the home.

22 Q. Okay. Well, this was done on March 30,

23 2011 --

24 A. That may be, but I didn't -- I didn't

25 read this or sign this and say, "Oh, this is

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49

1 exactly right." I didn't do that.

2 I'm telling you that that -- What I'm

3 telling you is she told me what was in the

4 notebook in the car and she didn't tell me what

5 was in the notebook in the house.

6 Q. Did you tell Special Agent Vileta --

7 A. I don't remember.

8 Q. -- that one of the notebooks had

9 pornography all over it?

10 A. No.

11 Q. You did not tell him that?

12 A. Not that I recall, because that's not

13 what Tracey told me.

14 Q. Okay, well, that's -- I wasn't there at

15 the interview. That's just -- I'm just reading

16 what it says.

17 A. Okay.

18 Q. "Tracey Roberts stated one of the

19 notebooks had pornography all over it and the

20 other contained personal information about her and

21 her son, Bert." Did I read that correctly?

22 A. You read that correctly, but I did

23 not --

24 Q. And this would be the interview with you

25 on March 30 of 2011, correct?

50

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. Okay. And you're saying that you never

3 said that?

4 A. I can't say that I never said that. All

5 I can tell you --

6 Q. Well, what did Tracey tell you about the

7 notebook, Ms. Higgins? Did she tell you --

8 A. Which one?

9 (At this time the court reporter asked

10 for clarification.)

11 BY MS. ANDERSON:

12 Q. Did Tracey Roberts ever tell you that

13 the pornography -- that any of the notebooks had

14 pornography all over it?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Did she ever tell you that one of them

17 contained personal information?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Did she tell you that it had contact

20 information about Dr. Pittman?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Did she tell you it would prove Dustin

23 Wehde knew all about Dr. Pittman?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Did she tell you that the notebook

51

1 proved Dustin Wehde had contact with Dr. Pittman?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Okay. But she never told you that it

4 had pornography in it?

5 A. No.

6 Q. So all these other statements are true

7 but this one is false?

8 A. And the computer was the one -- All the

9 statements you just said just now?

10 Q. Yes.

11 A. Yes. Well, it was the computer that had

12 the pornography in it, not the notebook, that she

13 told me. The notebook that was found in the home.

14 So I may have --

15 Q. Okay, the computer that was taken from

16 Noah Roberts's --

17 A. Not that one.

18 Q. -- bedroom --

19 A. Not that one. The computer -- She told

20 me there was a computer in Dustin's home in the

21 basement, on that computer there was pornography,

22 and it would prove that Dustin was gay.

23 THE WITNESS: I have a question.

24 Q. No, he can't tell you to answer stuff.

25 He can't coach you.

52

1 A. I had a question.

2 MR. SMITH: Go ahead and ask her.

3 MS. ANDERSON: Go ahead and ask it.

4 A. In that -- Okay, in what you just said

5 about the notebook that was found in the car, she

6 didn't tell me that it had -- I got to make sure I

7 understood your question.

8 She did not tell me that it had personal

9 information about she and Bert. She told me it

10 had personal information about John Pitman and

11 John Pitman's friend and contact. I don't recall

12 personal information about them. I don't know --

13 I'm not sure of your question.

14 Q. Well, I don't know what -- There was a

15 series of questions I asked, Ms. Higgins, so I

16 think they're very clear. Did Ms. Roberts tell

17 you that the notebook contained contact

18 information for Dr. Pitman; you stated yes.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. The questions were all yes or no. I

21 don't know how we can get any more --

22 A. Oh, I think we probably could.

23 MR. SMITH: Counselor, it's not

24 necessary. I mean, she -- It's just not

25 necessary.

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53

1 MS. ANDERSON: Okay.

2 BY MS. ANDERSON:

3 Q. Ms. Higgins, have you ever seen the

4 journal?

5 A. Not until just recently.

6 Q. When were you shown it?

7 A. Oh, I wasn't shown the whole journal. I

8 was only shown the front cover.

9 Q. The front pink cover?

10 A. The front pink cover.

11 Q. When was that?

12 A. When I came in to get ready to be

13 deposed.

14 Q. When was that? Was that the last-week

15 conversation?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Is there another date?

18 A. No. It was then, and the reason it was

19 shown to me was because I remembered that Tracey

20 had bought a pink notebook, and I -- I didn't tell

21 them.

22 Q. Okay. And we'll get to that.

23 Okay, you stated that when you went up

24 to the bedroom, that it didn't look right to you.

25 Is that what you said?

54

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Do you have any kind of degree in

3 criminology?

4 A. I do not.

5 Q. Law enforcement training?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Forensic re-creation?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Firearms?

10 A. Nope.

11 Q. So you really wouldn't know what the

12 right room would look like, would you, Ms.

13 Higgins?

14 A. I would know about Tracey's size and

15 about Tracey's height and could that fit into this

16 hole or could it not fit into this spot, and as a

17 human and someone who's not a retard or retarded

18 or I mean I can think this through, it did not

19 look like Tracey could get wedged in there.

20 Q. Now, during this March 30th, 2011,

21 interview with Special Agent Vileta, you never

22 indicated that one of the notebooks was pink, did

23 you?

24 A. I can't remember which one -- No, I

25 don't believe this is the one I did. No.

55

1 Q. Okay.

2 A. No.

3 Q. I'm referring to the March 30th, 2011,

4 Exhibit Y. You also never -- And that is the

5 document you are looking at, Ms. Higgins?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. Okay. In that interview you also never

8 indicated that one of the intruders was wearing a

9 ski mask, did you?

10 A. I may not have, no.

11 Q. You never indicated that the

12 conversation about the notebooks took place in the

13 sunroom?

14 A. Was I asked?

15 Q. I don't know.

16 A. Notebook, book.

17 Q. It says that you told Special Agent

18 Vileta that "Tracey Roberts told Higgins the

19 police had found two notebooks."

20 A. Correct.

21 Q. So did you only tell Special Agent about

22 one --

23 A. No.

24 Q. -- notebook during this occasion?

25 A. But it's two different occasions that

56

1 Tracey told this -- told me. Probably at this

2 time we were talking about the notebook that was

3 in the car.

4 Q. Okay. When you were referring to the

5 notebook that was found in the car, this

6 conversation where you learned about that, you

7 never told Special Agent Vileta that it happened

8 on a Saturday or that it took place in the

9 sunroom, did you?

10 A. I was never asked.

11 Q. So the answer to the question is: No,

12 you never told him that?

13 A. No, because I was never asked.

14 Q. Would you agree that this report has a

15 variety of information in it?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And that this is information that you

18 learned from Tracey or about Tracey over a period

19 of -- well, you say you knew her for 13 years?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. That this is just not limited to

22 information you learned in a single time frame, is

23 it?

24 A. No. No.

25 Q. In this report you also indicate that

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1 you thought something was not right about Tracey

2 and Michael Roberts the first time you met them.

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. You also state in this report that you

5 believe Tracey Roberts planned the attack.

6 A. That was, once again, thinking out loud,

7 looking at past and present.

8 Q. Okay, but you did tell Special Agent

9 Vileta that you believed Tracey Roberts had

10 planned the attack?

11 A. Thinking out loud, yes.

12 Q. But you also state that you tried to

13 convince Ms. Roberts through the years that it was

14 her husband that had planned the attack?

15 A. Not through the years. Immediately

16 following the trip to Australia. And when I said

17 Tracey had planned the attack, that was 13 years

18 of knowledge that made me question what had taken

19 place.

20 Q. On more than one occasion, though, you

21 tried to convince Ms. Roberts that it had been

22 Michael that planned the attack, is that true?

23 A. I think basically one occasion.

24 Q. And when was that occasion?

25 A. When she told me about -- When she came

58

1 home from Australia and she told me about what

2 took place, and she indicated to me that this was

3 John Pitman's deal, that he was behind this, and I

4 didn't even know John Pitman. I never have seen

5 John Pitman.

6 And I thought, my God, my friend is

7 sleeping with someone who I was afraid tried to do

8 this to her, and I wanted her to understand that

9 this could be more -- this couldn't be John

10 Pitman. I mean it was just two friends discussing

11 out loud and openly what happened.

12 Q. During this March 30, 2011, interview,

13 Exhibit Y, you state that you dropped Tracey's

14 son, Bert, off at home every night and that he

15 always had to use the doggie door since the side

16 door was always locked.

17 A. Correct. Correct. Before they

18 remodeled the house and they put the sunroom on.

19 Q. And when was that?

20 A. When did they remodel the home? I have

21 no -- I don't know. They were always working on

22 something in the house.

23 Q. Do you recall having an interview with

24 Dennis Cessford on April 8th of 2002?

25 A. I do not.

59

1 Q. Do you recall having an interview on

2 December 26th of 2001?

3 A. I do.

4 Q. Okay. Do you recall a second

5 interview --

6 A. I do not.

7 Q. -- a few months later?

8 A. I do not. And I think -- Tracey was not

9 the nucleus of my life. I was raising four

10 children, and my oldest daughter was, I believe,

11 in her second year of college, and my next

12 daughter had been diagnosed with a brain tumor,

13 and it just -- I just don't think it was a part of

14 my life. I have no memory of that interview.

15 Q. Okay. Would you say that Michael

16 Roberts was a controlling man?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Why would you say that?

19 A. He just -- When Tracey and I'd go out to

20 lunch, he'd want to know -- he'd constantly call

21 and want to know, you know, where we were, what we

22 were talking about, when would she be home.

23 When we went to aerobics, he would --

24 and we'd come home, we'd park there in the

25 driveway, and he would constantly pace back and

60

1 forth, and, I don't know, he appeared to be

2 nervous. He felt -- I felt that he was

3 controlling.

4 Q. Tell me about the church that Michael

5 Roberts went to.

6 A. I don't know much about it. Mike and

7 Tracey went to.

8 Q. Okay.

9 A. They -- They went to several churches,

10 so I can't -- I don't know much about their --

11 Their church and their faith seemed to change

12 every time they didn't like a rule or a

13 regulation.

14 I don't know much about their -- I just

15 know some people possibly that -- or I know some

16 people that had gone to the same churches that

17 would leave for one reason or another.

18 I don't know much about their church or

19 their faith towards -- you know. I don't know

20 that much about their faith.

21 Q. Do you recall ever telling law

22 enforcement that you believe Michael Roberts had

23 hired somebody to perform the attack on Ms.

24 Richter in December of 2001?

25 A. No.

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61

1 Q. During the course of this deposition,

2 Ms. Higgins, have I asked you anything that

3 confused you that you'd like to clarify at this

4 point?

5 A. I don't believe so.

6 Q. How did you learn about the December

7 13th, 2001, shooting?

8 A. My husband and I were in Des Moines for

9 a Christmas cocktail party, and my daughter called

10 me and left -- Back then we didn't have cell

11 phones -- left a message at the hotel. Called

12 home and said -- she said that "Something has

13 happened at the Roberts'."

14 Q. And did you call the Roberts residence?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Did you go to the Roberts home --

17 A. No.

18 Q. -- and check on Tracey once you had

19 gotten back from Des Moines?

20 A. No.

21 Q. What did you do once you received the

22 phone call?

23 A. I'm -- I'm sure -- I can only speculate

24 what I did. I'm sure I was upset. I didn't

25 know -- I can't -- I don't know.

62

1 Q. But you know you didn't call?

2 A. No, not that I recall.

3 Q. When you were in Tracey's bedroom

4 cleaning up, taking the diapers after the December

5 13th, 2001, attack, was the gun safe still in the

6 room?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Have you ever seen that gun safe before?

9 A. I believe that I had -- I have. I

10 believe I saw it -- Tracey had gotten a new bed,

11 and she showed me the bed, and I believe that's

12 when I saw it. It was a punch-button safe.

13 Q. Let's talk now about the conversation

14 that you had with Tracey in the sunroom. Tell me

15 again how that conversation was initiated.

16 A. I believe Tracey called me and asked me

17 to come in for coffee.

18 Q. Okay.

19 A. So I did.

20 Q. Okay. And did you ask her about the

21 attack?

22 A. I can't remember. I don't remember how

23 the conversation started, but that was -- I mean,

24 it was pretty obvi- -- I mean, it had to be

25 discussed. You know, I was her friend and she

63

1 just got home. I don't know how the conversation

2 started.

3 Q. Okay. Well, tell me what you learned in

4 the conversation.

5 A. I learned that she had been attacked.

6 Q. Okay. Let's go into the specifics of

7 that. What did you learn specifically about the

8 attack?

9 A. She told me that -- she told me that she

10 was home and that Bert was over at the office

11 playing computer games, and she had left the door

12 unlocked so that Bert could come back and forth to

13 get snacks, and she was going to bathe the

14 children, and Bert was in the house by then, and

15 she asked Bert to -- or not the children, just

16 Mae, she was going to bathe Mae.

17 She asked Bert to watch Noah, so Bert

18 and Noah were -- I don't know if they were in

19 Bert's room or Noah's room, and she had shut all

20 the lights off downstairs because Noah was afraid

21 of the dark and then she would know Noah wouldn't

22 go downstairs.

23 Q. And you would agree that that was normal

24 for Tracey to shut off all of the --

25 A. The lights --

64

1 Q. -- lights downstairs when they're not

2 down there?

3 A. I don't know that.

4 Q. You don't know that that's normal?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Okay. So she told you that all the --

7 she shut off all the lights because Noah's afraid

8 of the dark?

9 A. Correct.

10 Q. And then what did she tell you?

11 A. She told me that she had washed some

12 things out, nylons and I don't remember what else,

13 and had hung them over the rail to dry, the stair

14 rail, and that Mike was going to be coming home --

15 well, that she heard something downstairs, and she

16 assumed it was -- that Mike was home, had come

17 home, and that she hollered down -- she could hear

18 rustling down there or movement down there.

19 She hollered down to who she thought was

20 Mike, and there wasn't an answer. She continued

21 to -- she had Mae in her arms and was I think

22 possi- -- and walking back towards the bathroom,

23 and she saw two figures coming up the stairs. She

24 said it was a big guy and a little guy, and the

25 big guy seemed to be leading the -- leading coming

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65

1 up the stairs, and the big guy had a ski mask on

2 but the little guy didn't but she didn't really

3 see him.

4 And she asked them what they were doing,

5 and they said that -- and I got to make sure --

6 They said -- I don't remember what their answer

7 was. She took Mae, and she took 'em down the hall

8 and gave Mae to Bert and said, "No matter what you

9 hear, don't open that door."

10 And she came back down the hall, and now

11 the two men were upstairs, and they got into a

12 struggle, and her glasses were knocked off.

13 They -- they took the nylons, I believe, at one

14 point in this and choked her, and she tried to run

15 again, and that's when I think that she said that

16 the big man said, "Get the bitch," and they

17 struggled again, and he choked her -- this time he

18 choked -- I believe he choked her out, she fell to

19 the ground.

20 She told me that she started coming to,

21 and she could see the smaller guy carrying

22 something in his arms that she thought was Mae and

23 that made her -- she told me that made her want to

24 fight for her life more or her children's, and she

25 made her way into their bedroom, and she wedged

66

1 herself down in underneath there. Maybe that's

2 when they said, "Get the bitch," somewhere in all

3 this.

4 And she told me that, she said, "You

5 know, if you ever have a gun safe, maybe sure it's

6 not a combination. Make sure that it's a

7 punch-button so that you can do it without looking

8 at it," and she said, "I punched it and it didn't

9 open, and I punched it and it didn't open," and

10 then it seemed like it just -- she said and then

11 there was movement in the bedroom and she was

12 being attacked, and they were pulling at her, and

13 the lid popped open, and she reached in and she

14 pulled one handgun out, and she went to fire it,

15 and she said that the safety was on, and she said

16 that she and Mike had agreed that as long as the

17 gun was in the safe, in a gun safe, the safety did

18 not need to be on, and so she was shocked that the

19 safety was on and she wasn't certain how to take

20 the safety off.

21 She told me she couldn't get it to fire

22 so she reached in and she took another gun and she

23 fired it. She didn't know who she was firing at;

24 she just fired it at an object.

25 She said she was shocked that it was --

67

1 that it was so loud and so much fire came out of

2 the gun, and she said it got quiet but yet she

3 could hear what she thought was breathing.

4 She heard the second man with the ski

5 mask say, "The bitch has a fucking gun," and he

6 took off running. He ran down the hall, she said,

7 and -- but -- and down the staircase, and she told

8 me she got up, she -- it was dark. She didn't

9 have her glasses. She stepped over what she

10 thought was a laundry basket or dirty clothes.

11 She went down the hall. She got -- She

12 opened the door, and Bert was viciously swinging a

13 baseball bat, and she said, "It's me, it's me,"

14 and they took Bert -- she took Bert and the two

15 children down the hall, and she said that this

16 person was moving, and she said to him, "Stop

17 moving or I'll blow your fucking brains out," and

18 she told me he continued to move, and she stood

19 over him and leaned down and shot him till he quit

20 moving.

21 And then they went down the stairs where

22 Bert was to call 911, and while Bert was calling

23 911, Bert told me later that his mother went back

24 upstairs, and he asked her, "Why did you go back

25 upstairs?" and she said that she heard something,

68

1 and he -- he was still extremely upset about her

2 going upstairs, and then he continued to talk to

3 the operator, and --

4 Q. So I want to --

5 A. Okay.

6 Q. -- make sure we're clear. So while Bert

7 was talking to the operator, Tracey went back

8 upstairs?

9 A. That was my understanding.

10 Q. Okay. Go on.

11 A. At some point Tracey went back upstairs.

12 Once she got the children downstairs, she went

13 back upstairs. Exactly at what point, I can't

14 tell you, but it just kind of felt like that

15 was --

16 Q. Well, did it feel like that or did she

17 tell you that, Ms. Higgins?

18 A. Did she tell me Bert was on the phone

19 talking to 911? No. But she brought them down.

20 She told me she told Bert to call 911. She went

21 back upstairs. What was happening in that time

22 frame with Bert and the children, I don't know.

23 Q. Well, did you ask her?

24 A. No, I did not.

25 Q. Did you ask her how she fit between the

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69

1 bed and the wall?

2 A. No, I did not.

3 Q. Did Tracey ever tell you that a ski mask

4 was found in the bedroom?

5 A. No.

6 Q. When you indicated that Tracey told the

7 man on the floor not -- to quit moving or she'd

8 shoot him -- I'm not sure what your exact phrase

9 was.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Did she tell you how close she was to

12 him?

13 A. She told me she stood over him.

14 MR. SMITH: Do you need to take a break?

15 THE WITNESS: No, I want to get it over

16 with.

17 MR. SMITH: Okay. While you guys are

18 thinking of a question, I'm going to use the rest

19 room.

20 (At this time, an off-the-record

21 discussion was held.)

22 BY MS. ANDERSON:

23 Q. Just to clarify, you initially said that

24 Bert told you Tracey went back upstairs.

25 A. Correct.

70

1 Q. Did Tracey ever tell you that she went

2 back upstairs?

3 A. Not that I recall.

4 Q. I believe you indicated in the July 2011

5 interview that you didn't like to sit in Tracey's

6 driveway and talk because you were in fear that

7 someone was going to show up with a gun.

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. I believe you also indicated that Tracey

10 moved back into the bedroom immediately following

11 the shooting.

12 A. After they had the -- I think

13 originally -- I can only tell you what she told

14 me. Originally she moved into a guest -- they

15 slept in a guest room until the bedroom had been

16 repaired, and then they moved in to the room where

17 she was attacked.

18 Q. And did Tracey tell you whose idea this

19 was, to move back into the bedroom?

20 A. She told me it was Mike's.

21 Q. You also indicated in your July

22 interview, and that is Exhibit R2 that I'm

23 referring to, that you had made some recordings

24 regarding Michael beating Bert?

25 A. No, I did not.

71

1 Q. You didn't say that?

2 A. I did not.

3 Q. Okay. I'll refer you to Page 73 of your

4 recorded interview, Exhibit R2, and if you look

5 down to Line 3238 -- Well, let's start with 3230

6 just to have it all in complete context.

7 A. Okay.

8 Q. "Because they were beating the hell out

9 of Bert."

10 (At this time, the court reporter asked

11 for clarification.)

12 Q. "Because they were beating the hell out

13 of Bert." "And who -- who's they?" And then you

14 respond, "I don't know, I thought it was crazy

15 Mike, and I still think it's Mike."

16 Agent Vileta responds, "Okay." And then

17 you state, "And no one was listening. I kept

18 recording it and no one was listening."

19 A. Oh, not "recording," "reporting." I

20 kept reporting it.

21 Q. Okay.

22 A. And it didn't appear that anyone was

23 listening.

24 Q. When you say you kept reporting it, were

25 you referring to the two times that you had

72

1 made --

2 A. Yes, I believe I reported it three, but

3 I -- I think I reported it three times, but it

4 might not have been to like a service. It might

5 have been to the school.

6 I know I reported it to the school. I

7 know I reported it to Sac City, and -- and either

8 I tried to contact Fort Dodge, where they told me

9 he had a file, and I couldn't figure out how to.

10 It just -- It was just something I had never dealt

11 with before. I didn't know how to report it.

12 Q. When did Tracey tell you about the pink

13 notebook?

14 A. Let me think. She told me about the

15 pink notebook the day -- when she was telling me

16 about the attack, in her sunroom after she got

17 home from Australia on that Saturday.

18 Q. Are you sure about that?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Did you and Tracey speak of the attack

21 other times throughout the years?

22 A. The actual attack? Rarely, if ever.

23 Rarely, if ever. Bits and pieces maybe but not

24 very often. It was usually more about what they

25 were doing with the investigation.

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73

1 Q. During those rare conversations that you

2 spoke about the attack again, what did Ms. Roberts

3 tell you? Or Ms. Richter. Excuse me.

4 A. On which occasion?

5 Q. Any occasion subsequent to the sunroom

6 conversation.

7 A. I don't know how to answer that. I need

8 more.

9 Q. Well, did you talk with Ms. Richter

10 about the attack after the conversation in the

11 sunroom?

12 A. The actual attack? Like I said, rarely,

13 but it would have been just bits and pieces.

14 Q. And what were those bits and pieces?

15 A. Over the last ten years, I can't tell

16 you every bits and piece. Tell me, what do you

17 want to know?

18 Q. I want to know what you learned during

19 those conversations from Ms. Richter about the

20 attack.

21 A. Well, I told you what she told me about

22 the attack. She told me what was found in the

23 car. She told me that the police wanted her to do

24 a sketch. The question's so vague, I don't know

25 how to answer it.

74

1 Q. These questions -- What you just gave,

2 the sketch and about what was found in the car,

3 these were conversations subsequent to the

4 conversation in the sunroom?

5 A. The notebook was the day that she told

6 me about what happened, the attack, the Saturday

7 that she called me after they had come home from

8 Australia. That was all in one day -- one

9 conversation.

10 Jump ahead maybe weeks, and she told me

11 about the sketch. It wasn't -- Tracey and my

12 relationship was not based around this attack. It

13 wasn't something that I wanted to have a

14 conversation about on a daily basis.

15 I had a life to live, and I had children

16 to raise, and it appeared from the outside looking

17 in that she was being investigated and this was

18 being looked at, and I couldn't do anything about

19 this. I wasn't there. I wasn't a part of this.

20 I had no prior knowledge. It wasn't -- It wasn't

21 the nucleus of my life nor of our conversations.

22 I can't tell you every time Tracey and I

23 talked about the attack. The main part of the

24 attack we discussed when she got home from

25 Australia. After that, it would be things about

75

1 how it was being investigated and what was taking

2 place. I don't know how else to answer it.

3 Q. In the March 30, 2011, interview,

4 Exhibit Y, you indicate to Special Agent Vileta

5 that Tracey told you John Pitman was going to be

6 arrested for the attack.

7 A. That she felt he would be arrested for

8 the attack.

9 Q. Do you recall telling Special Agent

10 Vileta that?

11 A. No, but I'm not saying I didn't.

12 Q. Do you recall Tracey telling you that

13 John Pitman was going to be arrested for the

14 attack?

15 A. That she felt he was going to be

16 arrested for the attack, yes.

17 Q. Entering the July 2011 interview,

18 Exhibit R2, there was a discussion about your

19 dentist knowing about the notebook. Do you recall

20 that?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Okay. And you'll have to help me out

23 because I wasn't there, and some of this is

24 unintelligible, but you were asked if your dentist

25 knew about the --

76

1 A. No. My dentist was my father.

2 Q. And if you could review that page for

3 just a moment, Page 93, and maybe fill in some of

4 the blanks for me there.

5 A. It was all -- I didn't understand the

6 question. I didn't understand it either. I don't

7 know where that's coming from. I can't help you a

8 whole lot with this page. I was -- Like I said,

9 this was all new to me.

10 Q. Well, it says, "Then he came out and

11 said -- and mentioned the journal." Who were you

12 referring to?

13 A. Where is this at?

14 Q. Line 4133, Exhibit R2.

15 A. I don't know. Oh, I do too. When Ben

16 was at my house, he told me that -- he asked me --

17 he told me that DCI was going to speak with me,

18 and I said -- I said that "I have nothing to say.

19 This is dead. It's -- I have nothing to say. I

20 don't know anything."

21 And I went into the other room, and then

22 I came back, and I said, "They will never ever

23 catch her, and this is done." I didn't -- I

24 didn't want -- I just didn't want this to

25 continue, and he said that they feel that some

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1 evidence had been planted, and I said, "Are you

2 talking about that stupid notebook?" And he just

3 looked at me. You could just see the blood just

4 drain.

5 Q. And who is this? Who is "he" that

6 you're referring to?

7 A. Ben.

8 Q. Okay. And when was this conversation?

9 A. It was right -- maybe a week before I

10 spoke to Trent.

11 Q. Okay. So prior to the March 30th or the

12 July 14th, 2011 --

13 A. March. March, March, March.

14 Q. And you were over at Mr. Smith's

15 house --

16 A. No, he came to my house.

17 Q. He came to your house.

18 A. He and my husband were -- are friends.

19 Q. Okay. And he told you evidence had been

20 planted?

21 A. No. He told me that -- When I told him

22 that I wasn't going to speak to DCI, that I didn't

23 want to have -- I didn't -- I mean, it was done.

24 She had been investigated. I just didn't want to

25 dredge this all up, and I was afraid. I was

78

1 afraid of Tracey, so -- But I didn't think I knew

2 anything. And he said they feel that some

3 evidence had been planted, and I said, "Do you

4 mean that stupid journal -- or not journal --

5 notebook?" And he turned white, and I said,

6 "What?" I said, "The cops --" He said, "How do

7 you know about the journal?" And I said, "It

8 wasn't a journal. It was a notebook." And he

9 said, "How did you know about the notebook?" And

10 I said, "Tracey told me," and he said, "How did

11 Tracey know?" I said, "Because the cops told

12 her," and he said, "You have to speak to DCI, and

13 you have to speak to them as soon as you can. And

14 he went home. He left.

15 I never heard it called a journal. She

16 always called it -- When she spoke of it, she

17 called it a notebook. She told me it was a pink

18 spiral notebook that was left in the car. I don't

19 know where in the car. I just know it was next to

20 the computer or it was with the computer, by the

21 computer. I don't know where in the car, but they

22 were together. It was a pink spiral notebook.

23 And then what it said in it. It meant nothing to

24 me because the cops told her.

25 Q. Okay. And referring back to Page 93,

79

1 you indicate in Lines 4145 that you told your dad

2 and your sister about the notebook.

3 A. No, I did not.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. No, I did not.

6 Q. Okay. I guess, explain what you're

7 referring to then when you say, "It was my dad and

8 my sister."

9 A. They were my dentists.

10 Q. Oh, okay.

11 A. I never told anyone about the notebook.

12 I had no reason to. I was shocked to even hear.

13 Q. Okay. Did you ever talk to Robyn

14 Padgett about a journal that was found?

15 A. Not that I recall. It wouldn't have

16 been -- Not that I recall. No. Not that I

17 recall.

18 Q. Did you ever talk to Robyn Padgett about

19 the December 13th, 2001, attack on Tracey?

20 A. Not that I -- I mean, if I had, it would

21 have been after everything was settled other than

22 one time Tracey wanted to go into the restaurant.

23 She wanted to speak to Robyn, and she was afraid

24 to go by herself, so I told her I would go with

25 her.

80

1 Q. When was that?

2 A. It was after she came home from

3 Australia. A date, a year, I don't know, but it

4 was shortly after. She had heard that Robyn was

5 writing a book, and it made her angry, and she

6 wanted to go in and speak to Robyn.

7 I don't remember the conversation. I

8 don't remember what took place at that

9 particular -- you know, but I don't ever really

10 remember anything coming out -- I don't really

11 remember anything of it.

12 Q. Did you ever call Robyn on the phone in

13 the year following the attack and ask her

14 questions?

15 A. Not that I recall.

16 Q. Did you ever go into the cafe and see

17 her?

18 A. Rarely after the attack.

19 Q. When would that have been?

20 A. When would what have been?

21 Q. That you went in and saw Robyn Padgett

22 in the cafe, the Crossroads Cafe.

23 A. I wouldn't have gone to see her. I

24 would have been in there for other reasons.

25 Q. And did you talk to her about the

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1 attack?

2 A. It would have been -- I don't know. I

3 don't recall. I don't recall. We've discussed

4 like the -- What's that called? -- that Web site,

5 about dads that don't pay. I don't remember the

6 name of the Web site. Tracey told me about it,

7 that she had Mike on it and that I should look at

8 it, and I didn't.

9 I happened to be in the restaurant, and

10 Tracey told me she knew about it, that it

11 wasn't -- I don't -- I don't -- I remember talking

12 to her about when Tracey told me that she had

13 found -- way after.

14 Q. When you say "way after," what does that

15 mean?

16 A. Like years after. I don't -- I don't

17 recall.

18 Q. If you could hand me that page, I just

19 want to keep everything in order.

20 A. There's that one.

21 Q. You indicate in your July 2011 interview

22 that Tracey came to your house shortly after

23 Christmas.

24 A. I need to see that.

25 Q. Sure.

82

1 A. Was it -- Okay, continue.

2 Q. I got to get my copy out so give me just

3 one second.

4 Okay, Line 462 you say, "And then it

5 was -- it was right before Christmas. Well, I

6 don't know about right before Christmas, but

7 around Christmas. Well, it happened the 13th.

8 She had came out to my house shortly after

9 Christmas, so it had to be -- had to have been

10 between there." Do you recall that?

11 A. Okay, that's not right, but let me go up

12 and make sure that we're -- Let's go back. Okay,

13 the funeral. I don't -- Tracey wasn't at my home

14 before -- that I remember, before Christmas of

15 that attack.

16 Q. But you would agree that on Line 464 it

17 said, "She came out to my house shortly after

18 Christmas."

19 A. Well, this isn't at the same -- This

20 Christmas -- All right. This Christmas that I'm

21 talking about and -- She was at my house shortly

22 before Christmas, but it wasn't during this time

23 frame. It was after that. I had picked up her

24 two children from school and brought them to my

25 home. She and Anna were someplace, and they

83

1 couldn't get to the kids right away. I picked

2 them up. I brought them to my home. It was

3 shortly before Christmas, and they came.

4 Q. In 2001?

5 A. No, no.

6 Q. Okay. I guess I'm confused.

7 A. I am too.

8 Q. "It happened the 13th. She had came out

9 to my house shortly after Christmas so it had to

10 have been between there."

11 A. Yeah, that in there -- that -- I'm

12 mixing a Christmas way down the line, and I'll

13 tell you why. I was nervous about that she was at

14 my home.

15 I asked her -- They couldn't get home

16 from Omaha. I believe it was Omaha. I don't know

17 where. And I asked her -- She asked me to pick

18 the children up, and she said she'd just -- that

19 if they got there early, they'd just go in and

20 wait, and I asked her to just stay out. You know,

21 I would be there, it would be okay, just wait.

22 And when I got there, she and her mother

23 were in the house.

24 Q. When are you talking about? I don't

25 know what time frame.

84

1 A. Well, this would have been way after the

2 attack.

3 Q. Okay. But you would agree this page

4 indicates that it was -- it refers to December

5 13th --

6 A. It does, but that's incorrect.

7 Q. -- and then it says, "She came to my

8 house shortly after Christmas."

9 A. That's incorrect.

10 Q. Did you talk with Tracey immediately

11 following the attack?

12 A. Yes. Well, no. Immediately following

13 the attack, she went to her parents' home.

14 Q. And you didn't call there and talk with

15 her?

16 A. I did not. Anna told me -- I believe it

17 was Anna told me that she wanted to talk to me,

18 and I said -- I said no, that I would speak to her

19 when she came home from Australia, when she came

20 back.

21 Q. Okay, and I just want to ask you again:

22 At this point, is there any questions I've asked

23 you that confused you that you need to clarify?

24 A. Is there anything I need to clarify?

25 Q. Yes. Is there anything that I have said

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1 that confused you --

2 A. Right. I'm asking you. Is there

3 anything -- Because we've had a couple instances

4 in there where I want to make sure we both

5 understand -- I mean, I want to make sure that I

6 don't say something where I'm thinking ahead.

7 Q. And --

8 A. Because we're talking about 13 years,

9 you know.

10 Q. Right. And if I don't understand

11 something, I will ask questions just as I've been

12 doing, but my question is: Is there anything that

13 I've asked you that you're confused about and that

14 you need to clarify, up to this point?

15 A. Not that I'm confused about.

16 Q. Okay. Is it your understanding that

17 Tracey and Michael purchased a home in Storm Lake?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Where did you hear about this?

20 A. Tracey.

21 Q. And did you know Mona Wehde?

22 A. Not very well.

23 Q. What did you know about Mona?

24 A. Just she -- From what I knew of her,

25 she -- I guess, I knew her husband better than I

86

1 knew her. They were just people that lived in

2 Early. She sold real estate at one point. She

3 cleaned houses at one point.

4 I didn't really know Mona all that well.

5 My kids didn't go to school in Early, so most

6 people I don't know.

7 Q. Okay. What about Dustin Wehde, did you

8 know him?

9 A. I did not.

10 Q. Had you ever met him?

11 A. I had on two occasions.

12 Q. When were those two occasions?

13 A. One time I was just -- he was walking

14 down the sidewalk, I was walking down the

15 sidewalk, and I mean I've never really, like --

16 I've never had anyone say, "Mary, this is Dustin.

17 Dustin, this is Mary." He said something. I

18 don't know what he said. I thought he was odd.

19 The next time he was in getting his --

20 he had gotten his hair cut, and he was leaving as

21 I was coming in. Otherwise I just saw him at the

22 Roberts house come to the door, and -- I've never

23 really met the kid. I couldn't pick him out.

24 Q. Okay. But you said that he was odd?

25 A. He was odd.

87

1 Q. Why did you think this?

2 A. He -- As I was walking down the sidewalk

3 at the same time -- I think we must have been by

4 the bank. I'm not certain of that -- he just --

5 he uttered something to me, and I don't remember

6 what it was, but I remember thinking, that was --

7 that was weird -- it was just -- I don't -- You

8 know, you can meet somebody and know that they're

9 odd without having a big relationship with them.

10 Q. Right. And you also commented to Tracey

11 that you didn't think that it was a good idea

12 having that kid around the two little kids.

13 A. Correct. I didn't -- I didn't -- She

14 didn't know him. Correct, I didn't think it was a

15 good idea.

16 Q. Okay. Why not?

17 A. It just -- Like I said before, he was

18 odd, and, I mean, a mother's instinct told you --

19 told me that I wouldn't have him around these two

20 little kids.

21 Q. Okay. Do you believe Tracey and Dustin

22 were having an affair?

23 A. I do not.

24 Q. Why not?

25 A. I don't -- It just -- I don't know. I

88

1 just -- I can't --

2 Q. Well, you said "No" rather quickly --

3 A. No, --

4 Q. -- so I'm assuming --

5 A. -- no, I don't.

6 Q. -- there's a basis for that.

7 A. Well -- I don't have a basis. I don't

8 have a basis that they did either.

9 Q. Right.

10 A. Right.

11 Q. But when I asked you if you thought they

12 were having an affair, you said "No."

13 A. No.

14 Q. Is there any particular reason that

15 Tracey wouldn't have an affair with Dustin?

16 A. She was married.

17 Q. Is that it?

18 A. That's -- That's it.

19 Q. Okay. You made a comment earlier about

20 Mr. Smith coming to your house, and you indicated

21 to him that they would never ever catch her.

22 A. Correct.

23 Q. Why did you make that statement?

24 A. Because it just -- it just -- Like I

25 told you before, things weren't adding up with

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1 Tracey, and then she was changing her name, and

2 then she's trying to tell me that Bert's a year

3 younger than he was, and it just seems like -- it

4 just seemed like nothing ever caught up to her.

5 It just -- I had a healthy respect and a healthy

6 fear of Tracey, and I just -- It just didn't ever

7 seem to end.

8 Q. Do you know Jeremy Collins?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Can I have that? I'm going to put these

11 back in order real quick.

12 Ms. Higgins, you gave another interview

13 on October 4, 2011. Do you recall that?

14 A. Let me see it.

15 (At this time, Exhibit S2 was marked for

16 identification by the reporter.)

17 BY MS. ANDERSON:

18 Q. Do you recall giving that statement last

19 week, Ms. Higgins?

20 A. I need to read it first.

21 Q. Do you recall speaking with law

22 enforcement last week?

23 A. Oh, yes.

24 Q. And just for clarification of the

25 record, you're looking at Exhibit S2, your

90

1 October 4, 2011, interview, correct?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. In that last paragraph you make

4 reference to running down the road and picking up

5 a rock in the middle of the road. Do you recall

6 telling Special Agent Vileta --

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. -- and Mr. Ben Smith that?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And you found a note that said, "Demon

11 be gone"?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. In the middle of the road?

14 A. It wasn't in the middle of the road.

15 Q. Where was this?

16 A. It was in my running path.

17 Q. Okay. Is this a public road?

18 A. Yes, it is.

19 Q. And you picked up the rock in the public

20 road?

21 A. It was not under a rock. It was being

22 held down by a rock.

23 Q. Okay, I'm sorry, it says, "Underneath

24 the rock was a note which said --"

25 A. It may, but that's not how I found it.

91

1 Q. Okay, so it wasn't actually underneath

2 the rock?

3 A. It was being held down by a rock.

4 Q. Okay. And this note also had numbers on

5 it?

6 A. It did.

7 Q. And what were those numbers?

8 A. I don't remember all the numbers. 55

9 and 11 were two of the numbers.

10 Q. Do those numbers mean anything to you?

11 A. They did not.

12 Q. And you stated that you didn't turn that

13 note over to police?

14 A. No. I ruined it. I threw it away

15 because I didn't want it to scare me.

16 Q. Okay.

17 MR. SMITH: How much longer are we

18 thinking here?

19 MS. ANDERSON: Half hour or so. We are

20 off the record at this point.

21 (A recess was taken from 5:43 p.m. to

22 6:06 p.m.)

23 MS. ANDERSON: We are back on the record

24 after a short break.

25 BY MS. ANDERSON:

92

1 Q. And, Ms. Higgins, during the break, did

2 you have time to think about anything that I've

3 asked you that maybe you want to clarify?

4 A. I didn't think about anything that

5 you've asked me.

6 Q. Okay. Did you want to add anything to

7 your answers at this time?

8 A. I don't believe so. I'm exhausted.

9 Q. What first-hand evidence do you have

10 that shows that Ms. Richter had a plan to lure

11 Dustin into her home on December 13th, 2001?

12 A. None.

13 Q. How do you know that John Pitman was not

14 involved with the attack on December 13th, 2001?

15 A. I don't.

16 Q. You indicated that you talked to Dustin

17 Wehde twice. Do you know the approximate date

18 that any of those interactions occurred?

19 A. I never spoke to him, and I could not

20 give you the date, but I saw him. He spoke to me.

21 I never spoke to him.

22 Q. Okay. And do you know when that would

23 have been?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Was there snow on the ground?

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93

1 A. No. I don't know. No. No.

2 Q. You indicated that you did not know Mona

3 Wehde.

4 A. Not very well. I knew her. I didn't --

5 I knew her enough to say hello.

6 Q. How did you know her?

7 A. Small town. You kind of know everyone.

8 Q. Did you meet her at a --

9 A. No, no. I just -- She was somebody in

10 passing. It's a small town. I know a lot of

11 people that I don't really know. There's a lot of

12 people that would say they know me, but they don't

13 really know me. Enough to say hello. Enough to,

14 I suppose, ask her how she was.

15 Q. Okay. And when was the first time that

16 you would have met Mona Wehde?

17 A. Oh, I can't answer that.

18 Q. Any ideas?

19 A. No.

20 Q. How do you know that Mona Wehde and John

21 Pitman did not have any communication prior to

22 December 13th, 2001?

23 A. I don't.

24 Q. How long were you in Mr. Smith's office

25 today?

94

1 A. 30 minutes.

2 Q. What time did you arrive?

3 A. I believe around 3 o'clock. I don't

4 know for sure.

5 Q. What did you talk about?

6 A. Just that I was going to be okay and

7 that I needed to tell the truth and -- Well, I met

8 you, but that was later. Yeah, I met you. And

9 then that was all. Just nothing.

10 MS. ANDERSON: Let the record reflect

11 that the deponent has -- when she says "I met

12 you," she has made reference to the victim

13 advocate coordinator --

14 SANDY ASCHINGER: Victim witness

15 coordinator.

16 MS. ANDERSON: Victim witness

17 coordinator, and, I'm sorry, I don't recall your

18 name.

19 SANDY ASCHINGER: Sandy Aschinger.

20 MR. SMITH: And that would be my fault

21 for not properly introducing, so --

22 MS. ANDERSON: That's fine, and I

23 thought maybe you had been, and I just couldn't

24 remember at this point.

25 MR. SMITH: Okay, we'll go with that.

95

1 BY MS. ANDERSON:

2 Q. Now, you said that today he told you to

3 just tell the truth and you'd be fine. Did you

4 just repeat the same conversation that you had

5 with him last week?

6 A. What are you insinuating?

7 Q. I just want to know what you talked

8 about, Ms. Higgins.

9 A. I told you.

10 Q. Okay. And what was that? Tell me

11 again.

12 A. I told you that I came up. We just had

13 small talk. I told him that I was scared. He

14 told me that I had nothing to worry about, I just

15 needed to tell the truth.

16 Q. Okay. Did he show you any documents at

17 this time?

18 A. No, he did not.

19 Q. Do you recall ever speaking with a

20 gentleman by the name of Scott Gratias on the

21 phone a few weeks ago?

22 A. Who would that be?

23 Q. A private investigator on behalf of Ms.

24 Richter.

25 A. Yes, I did.

96

1 Q. Do you recall telling him that you

2 couldn't talk to him without your attorney's

3 permission?

4 A. No, not without my attorney's

5 permission. I told him that I was uncomfortable

6 with this situation and I didn't want to talk to

7 him unless my attorney was present.

8 Q. Okay. And you indicated during this

9 conversation that your attorney was Ben Smith, the

10 Sac County Attorney, is that correct?

11 A. Correct. He is not really my attorney.

12 My attorney is Colin McCullough, who is suffering

13 from throat cancer and is recovering, so I

14 don't -- Basically I don't have an attorney.

15 Q. Okay. But you informed Mr. Gratias that

16 you wouldn't speak to him without your attorney,

17 Ben Smith --

18 A. He said, "Is that your personal

19 attorney?" and I said, "No. No, he is not."

20 Q. Okay, but you did say he was your

21 attorney?

22 A. He was an attorney -- yeah, because I

23 don't have an attorney.

24 Q. Okay.

25 A. Mine is ill.

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1 Q. Okay. My question was: You spoke with

2 Scott Gratias and indicated that you would not

3 talk to him without your attorney present,

4 correct?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. And when he asked who was your attorney,

7 you indicated Ben Smith?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. Okay. How active are you in politics?

10 A. I'm not.

11 Q. You're not?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Do you ever do any political work at

14 all?

15 A. I -- Well, if you want to call it that,

16 yes.

17 Q. And what kind of political work did you

18 do?

19 A. I made probably ten, 15 phone calls in

20 Ben's behalf. I put some signs in my -- or a

21 sign, "Vote for Ben," in my yard and some at this

22 property that we have at the highway -- on the

23 highway.

24 Q. So you did some work on Mr. Smith's

25 political campaign?

98

1 A. Well, if it was work. I just -- I

2 made -- I made some phone calls that my husband

3 talked me into doing.

4 Q. Was this volunteer work or paid?

5 A. Volunteer.

6 Q. Have you ever volunteered in any other

7 political campaign in the past?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Ms. Higgins, at this time I have no

10 further questions, but this is your last chance,

11 if there's anything that you need to clarify or if

12 there's a question that -- Oh, I'm sorry, I do

13 have another question. I'm sorry.

14 What haven't we talked about today that

15 you intend to testify to at the time of Ms.

16 Richter's trial?

17 A. I guess I can't answer that. I'm

18 exhausted. My head is spinning, and I can't tell

19 you what the future will hold.

20 Q. Okay. But what is it your intention to

21 testify to at Ms. Richter's trial that we haven't

22 talked about?

23 A. I can only testify to the truth.

24 Q. Okay. But specifically items we have

25 not covered.

99

1 A. None that I know of.

2 Q. Okay, so you only plan to testify to

3 what we've talked about here today?

4 A. I'm only going to testify to the

5 questions that I know the answers to, that I know

6 is the truth. I'm not going to lie for anyone.

7 Q. Okay. But is there anything else that

8 you know that you will be discussing at the time

9 of trial, either that you and Mr. Smith have

10 talked about or facts that you know, is there

11 anything else that we have not talked about that

12 you anticipate testifying to at the time of trial?

13 A. Not that I know of at this time. I'm

14 exhausted.

15 MS. ANDERSON: Okay. We admitted R2,

16 and did we have another one? I believe we did.

17 Is it S2, Robin?

18 COURT REPORTER: Yes.

19 MS. ANDERSON: Okay. And, Mr. Smith,

20 will you stipulate that those exhibits were

21 entered at the deposition of Ms. Higgins?

22 MR. SMITH: Uh-huh. Yes. Sorry.

23 BY MS. ANDERSON:

24 Q. And, Ms. Higgins, if you think of

25 anything that you anticipate testifying to at

100

1 trial or that you haven't told me today, maybe a

2 question I asked that you couldn't remember the

3 answer to, if you think of those responses or of

4 anything you anticipate testifying at trial, will

5 you communicate that to Mr. Smith so that he may

6 communicate that to me?

7 A. Yes.

8 MS. ANDERSON: No further questions.

9 EXAMINATION

10 BY MR. SMITH:

11 Q. Ms. Higgins, at the time of trial, do

12 you intend to testify as to the reports which have

13 been made exhibits today?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Okay. You know, I know you're

16 exhausted, but I just got to cover this. I think

17 it to be helpful right now, and I'll get you out

18 of here, can you please describe to -- can you

19 please describe to the reporter here your

20 reluctance to be part of this or your role in this

21 as you now find yourself?

22 A. I don't want to be here. I don't want

23 to testify against someone who I assumed was a

24 friend for 13 years. I don't want to destroy -- I

25 can't eat. I can't sleep.

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101

1 Q. How much weight have you lost?

2 A. 62 pounds.

3 Q. In the last six months?

4 A. Yes. My father died. I felt nothing.

5 I'm numb. I'm numb. I cannot believe -- I cannot

6 believe this is happening.

7 All these years I supported and I was

8 there, and to think that I knew something all

9 these years that no one -- I didn't know. And

10 now, when I think of Tracey's family and her

11 children and what it's done to my family, it's --

12 I can't even put words to it. I can't put words

13 to it. I feel nothing. I'm numb.

14 And I don't want -- I didn't want to do

15 this. I still don't want to do this. I can't

16 even -- I can't describe it. No one can. Unless

17 you've been -- I can't even breathe, to think that

18 she's done anything as horrendous. Why?

19 Q. Ms. Higgins, I don't know if you're

20 aware of this or not, but it has been alleged by

21 the defendant that I have conspired, fed

22 information to you, have told you what to say,

23 have given you the information relating to certain

24 things regarding this matter.

25 Can you please again describe or explain

102

1 to the court reporter how --

2 A. I will not lie. I will not lie. I

3 won't lie for you, Tracey, and I'm not going to

4 lie for Ben. I can only tell what I know to be

5 the truth, and I don't know where it's going to

6 lead. I don't even know what it means.

7 No one is going to talk me in to saying

8 or doing something that I don't know is the truth.

9 I can't, and I will not. I won't survive it. I

10 wouldn't live it.

11 Do you really think somebody could talk

12 me into going through this? There is no way in

13 hell. No one, no one talked me into this. No one

14 told me anything.

15 The only person that told me anything

16 was Tracey, and I can only repeat, I can only tell

17 you what she told me because that is the truth,

18 and you can badger me, you can -- I don't care.

19 The truth is what the truth is, and there is no

20 rewording it or re-working it.

21 I can only tell you what she told me,

22 and I'm sorry -- I could just die, the thought of

23 where it could possibly go, but I didn't know.

24 And no one is going to talk me into saying

25 anything that what didn't happen or wasn't true.

103

1 No one is.

2 Q. Is there anything else you want to add?

3 A. No.

4 MR. SMITH: No further questions.

5 MS. ANDERSON: I don't have anything

6 further.

7 MR. SMITH: Thank you, Ms. Higgins.

8 * * *

9 (The testimony ended at 6:20 p.m.)

10 * * *

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16

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18

19

20

21

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104

CERTIFICATE STATE OF IOWA COUNTY OF CALHOUN I, Robin R. Qualy, a Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Iowa, do hereby certify that the deponent was duly sworn by me, and that the transcript as above set forth is a true and accurate record of the testimony given. That the within and foregoing deposition was taken by me at the time and place herein specified. That I am not counsel, attorney, or relative of either party or otherwise interested in the event of this suit. IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, I have hereunto placed my hand October 11, 2011. _____________________________ ROBIN R. QUALY, CSR, RMR, CRR

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A

abuse 46:14accurate 3:20 104:8accurately 4:3active 97:9actual 72:22 73:12add 92:6 103:2adding 88:25Adjournment 2:11admit 36:15admitted 99:15advocate 94:13aerobics 59:23affair 87:22 88:12,15afraid 58:7 63:20 64:7 77:25 78:1

79:23Agent 6:9 29:5 32:8,21 35:11

39:11 46:4,17,22 48:11,15 49:654:21 55:17,21 56:7 57:8 71:1675:4,9 90:6

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attacked 63:5 66:12 70:17attacks 41:21attorney 1:14 96:7,9,10,11,12,14

96:16,19,21,22,23 97:3,6104:12

attorney's 96:2,4Australia 39:21 40:9,13 41:23

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B

B 43:24back 29:1 40:5,6 41:24 44:10,12

46:13 59:25 61:10,19 63:1264:22 65:10 67:23,24 68:7,1168:13,21 69:24 70:2,10,1976:22 78:25 82:12 84:20 89:1191:23

badger 102:18Bandstra 1:17,18bank 87:4barely 46:8base 28:11baseball 67:13based 74:12basement 47:19,20 51:21basically 10:20 57:23 96:14basis 14:19,21 15:16 74:14 88:6

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52:17context 71:6continue 18:2,9 76:25 82:1continued 64:20 67:18 68:2controlling 59:16 60:3conversation 5:24 53:15 55:12

State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

106

56:6 62:13,15,23 63:1,4 73:673:10 74:4,9,14 77:8 80:7 95:496:9

conversations 20:1 73:1,19 74:374:21

convince 57:13,21cookie 26:5,6,8cookies 25:21 26:2coordinator 1:22 94:13,15,17cops 78:6,11,24copy 5:10 10:7 82:2correct 8:16 10:17 12:24 13:1

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correctly 49:21,22counsel 104:12Counselor 52:23counter 26:3,3County 1:1,10,14,22 96:10 104:3couple 85:3course 3:22 6:12 9:18 61:1court 1:1 9:5,5 50:9 71:10 99:18

102:1Courthouse 1:10cover 53:8,9,10 100:16covered 98:25crazy 71:14criminology 54:3Crock-Pot 42:6,13,13Crossroads 80:22CRR 1:10 104:22CSR 1:9 104:22cupboard 26:11custody 4:13 10:22cut 86:20

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40:17,21 41:6,14 59:2 60:2461:6 62:4 79:19 84:4 92:11,1493:22

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deposed 3:8 7:23 9:15,23 53:13deposition 1:9 4:7 11:20 61:1

99:21 104:9Deputy 1:22Des 1:19 61:8,19describe 12:11 18:17,23 100:18

100:19 101:16,25DESCRIPTION/PAGE(S)REFE...

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98:3 102:8door 14:25 58:15,16 63:11 65:9

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100:16Exhibit 2:6 6:23 29:18 35:20 48:3

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State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

107

43:8,11,18 44:8 45:11 56:758:11 61:13 74:6 81:9 82:783:8

happening 68:21 101:6harvesting 13:14head 16:1,7 36:11 44:7 98:18healthy 89:5,5hear 20:15 64:17 65:9 67:3 79:12

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102:13hello 16:2 19:24 21:5,5 93:5,13help 75:22 76:7helped 42:4helpful 100:17hereunto 104:15Higgins 1:9 2:2,7,8,10 3:2,7 6:3

30:23 33:2 48:4 50:7 52:1553:3 54:13 55:5,18 61:2 68:1789:12,19 92:1 95:8 98:9 99:2199:24 100:11 101:19 103:7

highway 97:22,23hired 60:23hit 23:11 26:15 28:9hold 98:19hole 54:16hollered 64:17,19home 16:3,15,21 17:1,2,13,23

18:9 23:12 25:15,24 26:20,2331:5,7 33:15 38:18,24,25 39:139:21 40:9,12,18 41:7,11,12,1541:21,23 42:11,13,16,21 45:1,246:15 48:19,21 51:13,20 58:158:14,20 59:22,24 61:12,1663:1,10 64:14,16,17 72:17 74:774:24 78:14 80:2 82:13,25 83:283:14,15 84:13,19 85:17 92:11

horrendous 101:18horrible 46:5,10horrific 33:6,8hotel 61:11hour 30:24 91:19hours 9:2 30:21house 15:14,16 16:9 17:20 19:25

25:20 27:1 41:24,25 42:3,948:8 49:5 58:18,22 63:14 76:1677:15,16,17 81:22 82:8,17,2183:9,23 84:8 86:22 88:20

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85:25 98:2

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79:1 81:21

indicated 6:16 17:19 20:11,2425:8,23 26:17 27:5 32:10 33:1834:5 54:22 55:8,11 58:2 69:670:4,9,21 88:20 92:16 93:296:8 97:2,7

indicates 10:10,25 84:4indicator 36:20information 16:19 34:19,24 36:7

36:8 37:1,9,10,13,16 48:1449:20 50:17,20 52:9,10,12,1856:15,17,22 101:22,23

informed 96:15initially 69:23initiate 29:22initiated 29:20 62:15insinuating 95:6instances 85:3instinct 87:18intend 98:15 100:12intention 98:20interact 19:3interaction 19:20interactions 18:17,23 19:14

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57:7 66:7 74:16 89:25lost 101:1lot 19:1 20:23 76:8 93:10,11loud 36:3,12 57:6,11 58:11 67:1loves 20:21lunch 59:20lure 92:10

M

Mae 21:15 63:16,16 64:21 65:7,865:22

Mae's 11:10main 74:23making 25:21 26:1 46:6,22man 59:16 65:16 67:4 69:7March 5:8,10,11 29:5,10,12

30:11 32:18 33:17 34:1 35:1139:12 46:4 48:22 49:25 54:2055:3 58:12 75:3 77:11,13,13,1377:13

mark 6:21marked 6:23 29:17 89:15marks 23:10,10married 88:16Mary 1:9 2:2,7,8,10 3:2,7,8 6:4

86:16,17mask 55:9 65:1 67:5 69:3matter 17:10 45:19,22,24 65:8

101:24McClure 6:10McCullough 96:12mean 15:1 17:8 20:12 41:20

45:12 52:24 54:18 58:10 62:2362:24 77:23 78:4 79:20 81:1585:5 86:15 87:18 91:10

meaning 46:18means 102:6meant 10:3 24:22 78:23meet 87:8 93:8meeting 7:2,5memory 59:14men 65:11mentioned 76:11message 61:11met 12:21 19:5 57:2 86:10,23

93:16 94:7,8,11Michael 18:24 20:24 32:12 57:2

57:22 59:15 60:4,22 70:2485:17

middle 90:5,13,14Mike 21:22 22:19 23:11 24:17,20

25:20,24 26:8 38:23 60:6 64:1464:16,20 66:16 71:15,15 81:7

Mike's 70:20mine 33:3 96:25minutes 9:2,4 11:2 30:19 94:1mixing 83:12Moines 1:19 61:8,19mom 27:2moment 29:2,16 76:3Mona 32:12 33:19 34:6 35:6,13

35:14 36:21,23 85:21,23 86:493:2,16,20

Monday 7:10,12,14,16,22,23month 14:12 16:4,11 17:15 18:14

39:24 40:2,3months 5:3,7 25:3 59:7 101:3mother 26:16 27:1 38:16 46:5,11

67:23 83:22mother's 87:18move 67:18 70:19moved 12:3 17:4,9 18:7 70:10,14

70:16

State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

108

movement 64:18 66:11moving 67:16,17,20 69:7

N

name 3:6,7 24:8,10,16,16 81:689:1 94:18 95:20

nature 3:17necessary 52:24,25need 4:2 9:23 14:1 15:1,25 29:7

29:24 32:5 66:18 69:14 73:781:24 84:23,24 85:14 89:2098:11

needed 5:19 29:25 30:1 31:2437:10 41:8 94:7 95:15

nervous 60:2 83:13never 9:14,23 27:11 33:7 37:12

38:3 39:4,4,5,5 50:2,4 51:354:21 55:4,7,11 56:7,10,12,1358:4 72:10 76:22 78:15 79:1186:15,16,22 88:21 92:19,21

new 62:10 76:9nice 16:8night 31:21 40:5 58:14Noah 11:9 21:15 25:19,23 26:2,4

26:4,7,12,13,14 51:16 63:17,1863:20,21

Noah's 63:19 64:7Nope 54:10normal 63:23 64:4nose 23:1note 90:10,24 91:4,13notebook 36:25 47:12,17,23,24

48:19,20,21 49:4,5 50:7,2551:12,13 52:5,17 53:20 55:1655:24 56:2,5 72:13,15 74:575:19 77:2 78:5,8,9,17,18,2279:2,11

notebooks 47:2,8,10 48:5,1249:8,19 50:13 54:22 55:12,19

notice 21:25noticed 22:12nucleus 59:9 74:21numb 101:5,5,13number 14:10 17:25numbers 91:4,7,8,9,10nylons 64:12 65:13N.W 1:15

O

object 66:24obvi 62:24occasion 55:24 57:20,23,24 73:4

73:5occasions 32:11 36:24 47:10

55:25 86:11,12occurred 28:24 92:18October 1:10 4:18 8:9,11,13

89:13 90:1 104:16odd 38:11,13 42:19 44:21 86:18

86:24,25 87:9,18office 8:22 30:13 32:13 33:19

34:6,10 35:14 36:23 63:1093:24

off-the-record 69:20Oh 5:4 28:21 35:25 47:5 48:25

52:22 53:7 71:19 76:15 79:1089:23 93:17 98:12

okay 4:12,16,21,23,25 5:4,10,135:18 6:3,6 7:16,18,20,25 8:3,58:8,11,12,14,19 9:7,10,19 10:910:14,24 11:12,14,18,22 12:1113:6,10,15,20,22 14:18,23 15:215:9 16:5,13,18,20 17:7,12,2219:18 20:17,24 21:4,14 22:1723:3,16 25:8,23 27:4 28:6

29:12,15 30:21,23 31:19 32:733:1 34:16 35:9,9,18,23,2536:4 37:18,23 38:19 40:10,2541:9,25 42:8 45:3,7,17 46:1046:17 47:3 48:2,22 49:14,1750:2 51:3,15 52:4 53:1,22,2355:1,7 56:4 57:8 59:4,15 60:862:18,20 63:3,6 64:6 68:5,1069:17 71:3,7,16,21 75:22 77:877:11,19 78:25 79:4,6,10,1382:1,4,11,12 83:6,21 84:3,2185:16 86:7,24 87:16,21 88:1990:17,23 91:1,4,16 92:6,2293:15 94:6,25 95:10,16 96:8,1596:20,24 97:1,9 98:20,24 99:299:7,15,19 100:15

old 28:13,14,16oldest 59:10Omaha 13:21 17:4,9 83:16,16once 3:19 14:23 15:7 16:24 17:9

28:10,12 37:25,25 57:6 61:1861:21 68:12

Oops 29:3open 65:9 66:9,9,13opened 67:12openly 58:11operator 68:3,7order 24:1 81:19 89:11original 8:2originally 7:11 24:2 37:8 46:13

70:13,14outside 74:16o'clock 94:3

P

pace 59:25Padgett 79:14,18 80:21page 10:10 35:17,21,22 48:2 71:3

76:2,3,8 78:25 81:18 84:3paid 98:4paintball 27:20 28:1paintballing 27:14,16 28:4,24paintballs 27:21paper 11:16paragraph 35:19,23 36:14 90:3paragraph's 36:1parents 41:21,23 84:13park 59:24part 39:6 59:13 74:19,23 100:20partial 36:15partially 36:15participate 31:17particular 5:21 80:9 88:14party 40:6 61:9 104:13passing 14:3 93:10path 90:16pause 11:1pay 81:5PC 1:18people 9:22 20:14 60:15,16 86:1

86:6 93:11,12perform 60:23period 16:22 56:18permission 96:3,5person 20:22 21:11 67:16 102:15personal 47:19 48:14 49:20

50:17 52:8,10,12 96:18phone 9:4 16:1 23:20 24:9,14

61:22 68:18 80:12 95:21 97:1998:2

phones 61:11phrase 69:8pick 16:24 17:20 18:2 27:1 83:17

86:23picked 82:23 83:1 90:19

picking 90:4piece 73:16pieces 72:23 73:13,14pink 53:9,10,20 54:22 72:12,15

78:17,22Pitman 37:1,6,24 52:10,18 58:4,5

58:10 75:5,13 92:13 93:21Pitman's 37:3 52:11 58:3Pittman 50:20,23 51:1pizza 44:19,20place 9:16,17 30:12 39:9 41:10

41:11 46:14 55:12 56:8 57:1958:2 75:2 80:8 104:10

placed 104:16Plaintiff 1:3,16plan 92:10 99:2planned 57:5,10,14,17,22planted 77:1,20 78:3playing 63:11please 3:6,25 6:5 11:15,20 18:19

39:16 42:9 100:18,19 101:25point 12:13 20:3 27:24 30:5 61:4

65:14 68:11,13 84:22 85:1486:2,3 91:20 94:24

police 48:4 55:19 73:23 91:13political 97:13,17,25 98:7politics 97:9pool 23:8popped 26:2 66:13pornography 47:23,24 48:13

49:9,19 50:13,14 51:4,12,21possi 64:22possibly 33:5 36:7 43:25 60:15

102:23pounds 44:3,4 101:2power 26:20Powers 1:21prayed 33:16preaches 20:14prefer 6:4preparation 4:6 8:1present 1:21 57:7 96:7 97:3presumably 12:21pretty 13:8 62:24previously 29:17prior 4:19 6:18 8:2 24:24,25 30:5

33:7 34:7 35:8 36:22 45:1774:20 77:11 93:21

private 95:23Prob 30:22probably 29:14 37:20 40:19 44:2

44:3,3 52:22 56:1 97:19progressed 21:7,8,9 46:12properly 94:21property 97:22prove 48:1 50:22 51:22proved 51:1public 90:17,19pull 43:25,25pulled 10:12 66:14pulling 66:12punched 66:8,9punch-button 62:12 66:7purchased 85:17put 14:10 17:24 58:18 89:10

97:20 101:12,12p.m 1:10 2:11 31:3 91:21,22

103:9

Q

Qualy 1:9 104:4,22question 4:2,3 34:21 51:23 52:1

52:7,13 56:11 57:18 69:18 76:685:12 97:1 98:12,13 100:2

questioned 33:9

questions 3:12,15 9:17,20,25,2552:15,20 74:1 80:14 84:2285:11 98:10 99:5 100:8 103:4

question's 73:24quick 89:11quickly 88:2quiet 67:2quit 67:19 69:7quite 47:16

R

R 1:9 104:4,22rail 64:13,14raise 74:16raised 46:18raising 59:9ran 41:20 67:6rare 73:1rarely 19:7 72:22,23 73:12 80:18raw 26:5,6,7,8reach 17:14reached 26:10,12 66:13,22read 4:8 5:6 34:13 35:16 48:25

49:21,22 89:20reading 49:15ready 39:1 53:12real 86:2 89:11really 9:8 10:21 11:9 20:9 26:25

36:13 43:6 45:12 54:11 65:280:9,10 86:4,15,23 93:11,1396:11 102:11

rear 23:9reason 34:2,16,22 53:18 60:17

79:12 88:14reasons 80:24recall 6:19 7:9 10:2 11:11 19:12

19:13 46:6,22 47:2 49:12 52:1158:23 59:1,4 60:21 62:2 70:375:9,12,19 79:15,16,17 80:1581:3,3,17 82:10 89:13,18,2190:5 94:17 95:19 96:1

received 61:21recess 91:21recollection 46:3record 3:6,20 24:18 89:25 91:20

91:23 94:10 104:8recorded 6:16 71:4recording 6:16 71:18,19recordings 70:23recovering 96:13refer 71:3reference 90:4 94:12referred 6:13referring 4:18 11:25 29:17 48:2

55:3 56:4 70:23 71:25 76:1277:6 78:25 79:7

refers 84:4reflect 94:10regarding 30:6 31:13 39:13

70:24 101:24regular 10:3regulation 60:13relating 101:23relationship 12:12,15 13:2,5,6

18:11 22:15 74:12 87:9relative 104:13relax 5:19,25 7:7reluctance 100:20remember 4:15 6:8 7:25 13:10,13

19:17 20:3 23:2,18,19,25 24:524:12 25:6 29:9 41:1,3 47:2148:17 49:7 54:24 62:22,2264:12 65:6 80:7,8,10,11 81:581:11 82:14 87:5,6 91:8 94:24100:2

State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

109

remembered 53:19remodel 58:20remodeled 58:18repaired 70:16repeat 4:1 37:19 95:4 102:16rephrase 4:1report 34:1 56:14,25 57:4 72:11reported 1:9 72:2,3,6,7reporter 2:12 3:3 6:24 50:9 71:10

89:16 99:18 100:19 102:1104:5

reporting 71:19,20,24reports 100:12residence 61:14respect 89:5respond 71:14responds 71:16responses 100:3rest 69:18restaurant 79:22 81:9retard 54:17retarded 54:17review 29:16 76:2rewording 102:20re-creation 54:7re-working 102:20Richter 1:5,21 11:24,25 12:1,12

12:15,19,21 13:17,25 14:1718:16,20 32:11 34:5 38:4 39:1847:1 60:24 73:3,9,19 92:1095:24

Richter's 18:9 98:16,21right 8:9,18 10:5 12:20 15:6 19:3

25:22 33:23 35:25 39:20 40:843:19 47:5,22 49:1 53:24 54:1257:1 77:9 82:5,6,11,20 83:185:2,10 87:10 88:9,10 100:17

RMR 1:10 104:22road 90:4,5,13,14,17,20roast 42:6,14,22 44:25Robert 1:21Roberts 11:25 18:18,24,24 19:4

19:14,22 20:2,12,25 27:13 28:435:2,12 46:5,19 48:4,12 49:1850:12 52:16 55:18 57:2,5,9,1357:21 59:16 60:5,22 61:13,1461:16 73:2 86:22

Roberts's 21:15 51:16Robin 1:9 3:18 99:17 104:4,22Robyn 79:13,18,23 80:4,6,12,21rock 90:5,19,21,22,24 91:2,3rod 23:11role 100:20room 11:4,5,6 43:17,20 45:4

54:12 62:6 63:19,19 69:1970:15,16 76:21

ruined 91:14rule 60:12rules 3:12run 28:7 65:14running 67:6 90:4,16rushed 31:10rustling 64:18R2 2:8 6:23 70:22 71:4 75:18

76:14 99:15

S

Sac 1:1,10,10,14,15,22 23:22,2323:24 24:15 72:7 96:10

safe 62:5,8,12 66:5,17,17safety 21:15 66:15,17,19,20Sandra 1:22Sandy 94:14,19,19sat 11:6 26:3Saturday 39:23 40:1,4 41:1 56:8

72:17 74:6saw 22:23,23,25 23:1 43:8 62:10

62:12 64:23 80:21 86:21 92:20saying 15:23 32:16 35:14 50:2

75:11 102:7,24says 10:16 47:21 49:16 55:17

76:10 84:7 90:23 94:11scare 91:15scared 95:13school 18:2 23:21 24:2,14 25:9

27:4 33:15 37:25 72:5,6 82:2486:5

Scott 1:17 95:20 97:2season 25:6second 47:17 59:4,11 67:4 82:3seconds 11:2see 6:11 10:20 13:25 14:2,2,5,19

14:21 15:5,20 16:14 17:11 20:722:20,24 25:12,12 29:7 32:543:5 65:3,21 77:3 80:16,2381:24 89:14

seen 53:3 58:4 62:8sentence 35:19separate 36:23series 3:14 52:15service 72:4set 104:7settled 79:21seven 8:17 11:1severe 37:20severely 37:19,24Sheriff 1:22 6:9she'd 14:25 69:7 83:18shit 46:6,11shocked 66:18,25 79:12shoot 69:8shooting 61:7 70:11short 21:5 91:24Shorthand 104:4shortly 40:20 80:4 81:22 82:8,17

82:21 83:3,9 84:8shot 20:9 43:9,9,10,20 67:19show 4:20 10:18 29:15 70:7

95:16showed 6:17 10:20 43:8 62:11showing 26:4shown 53:6,7,8,19shows 92:10shut 63:19,24 64:7sic 44:14side 58:15sidewalk 86:14,15 87:2sign 48:25 97:21signs 97:20single 56:22Sioux 23:21,22sister 79:2,8sit 5:15 70:5site 81:4,6sitting 35:5situation 27:3 43:16 96:6six 101:3size 54:14sketch 73:24 74:2,11ski 55:9 65:1 67:4 69:3sleep 100:25sleeping 58:7slept 70:15sliding 36:2small 93:7,10 95:13smaller 65:21Smith 1:14 2:4 5:16 6:9,17 7:3

8:1,24 10:1,11,18 11:21 19:1929:21,22 30:6 52:2,23 69:14,1788:20 90:8 91:17 94:20,25 96:9

96:17 97:7 99:9,19,22 100:5,10103:4,7

Smith's 8:22 77:14 93:24 97:24snacks 63:13snow 92:25sold 86:2somebody 21:12,19 24:11 27:5

37:14 60:23 87:8 93:9 102:11someplace 31:24 82:25son 17:21 22:22 23:4,4 28:5,13

28:17,20 40:4 48:15 49:2158:14

soon 78:13Sophie 13:9sorry 8:5 16:18 32:12 35:25

90:23 94:17 98:12,13 99:22102:22

sound 8:9speak 4:23 14:6 15:3,22,25 29:25

30:2 72:20 76:17 77:22 78:1278:13 79:23 80:6 84:18 96:16

speaking 16:24,25 89:21 95:19Special 6:9 29:5 32:7,20 35:11

39:11 46:4,17,22 48:11,15 49:654:21 55:17,21 56:7 57:8 75:475:9 90:6

specific 19:13 20:1specifically 63:7 98:24specifics 63:6specified 104:11Specify 42:9speculate 61:23speeding 39:5spend 20:22 21:2 40:4spinning 98:18spiral 78:18,22spoke 4:22 8:1 14:9 15:15,23

19:9 24:4 39:12,14,17 73:277:10 78:16 92:19,20,21 97:1

spoken 19:22,23 32:7 35:5spot 54:16stair 64:13staircase 67:7stairs 45:19,23 64:23 65:1 67:21stand 46:8Standing 43:22start 6:3 10:11 12:14 14:14 31:1

39:2 71:5started 9:8,12,13 20:15 62:23

63:2 65:20starting 1:10 6:18state 1:2,15 3:6 35:12 39:11 46:4

57:4,12 58:13 71:17 104:2,5stated 37:18 45:3 46:17 48:12

49:18 52:18 53:23 91:12statement 4:21 5:6 33:20 35:9,15

46:9 88:23 89:18statements 4:8,9 5:22 46:7,22

51:6,9statement's 36:1stay 83:20steal 32:13 33:19stepped 67:9stick 16:1,7stipulate 99:20stole 34:12stolen 34:11stood 67:18 69:13stop 3:12 4:1 67:16Storm 18:7 85:17Street 1:15struggle 65:12struggled 65:17stuff 51:24stupid 77:2 78:4

subsequent 73:5 74:3suffering 96:12suit 23:8 104:14Suite 1:19sunroom 41:13 55:13 56:9 58:18

62:14 72:16 73:5,11 74:4supper 31:7support 38:15supported 101:7suppose 93:14supposed 7:10,21 26:25sure 3:20 16:9 29:8,11,13 35:17

52:6,13 61:23,24 65:5 66:5,668:6 69:8 72:18 81:25 82:1285:4,5 94:4

survive 102:9swimming 23:7,7,8swinging 67:12sworn 3:3 104:6synonym 37:21S2 2:10 89:15,25 99:17

T

take 9:16,17 26:23 29:1 30:1238:17,23 41:9 42:4,5 44:2266:19 69:14

taken 1:9 36:13 42:23 51:1557:18 91:21 104:10

talk 3:17 5:15 7:2 10:5 27:8 41:862:13 68:2 70:6 73:9 79:13,1880:25 84:10,14,17 94:5 95:1396:2,6 97:3 102:7,11,24

talked 74:23 92:16 95:7 98:3,1498:22 99:3,10,11 102:13

talking 11:15 47:5 56:2 59:2268:7,19 77:2 81:11 82:21 83:2485:8

tax 34:14teach 27:23teaching 26:4tear 33:10tell 4:20 5:19,25 7:7 13:12,16

23:4 25:25 26:24 30:1 36:1937:10 42:11 47:6 48:11,15 49:449:6,11 50:5,6,7,12,16,19,2250:25 51:24 52:6,8,16 53:2055:21 57:8 60:4 62:14 63:364:10 68:14,17,18 69:3,11 70:170:13,18 72:12 73:3,15,1674:22 83:13 89:2 94:7 95:3,1095:15 98:18 102:4,16,21

telling 38:19 49:2,3 60:21 72:1575:9,12 90:6 96:1

ten 17:14 40:22 73:15 97:19testified 3:3 10:23testify 98:15,21,23 99:2,4 100:12

100:23testifying 99:12,25 100:4testimony 10:13,15 103:9 104:8

104:15Thank 29:4 103:7they'd 83:19thick 4:11 6:13thing 11:11 13:12 27:23 46:14things 9:22,22 10:4 11:7,8 21:7,8

25:14,16 36:2,9 38:11,12 40:2341:18 42:6 64:12 74:25 88:25101:24

think 3:15 5:14 6:4 11:12,20 21:621:21 24:1 25:9 36:4 37:2040:21 42:19 46:8 47:21 52:1652:22 54:18 57:23 59:8,1364:21 65:15 70:12 71:15 72:372:14 78:1 87:1,3,11,14 92:2,499:24 100:3,16 101:8,10,17

State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

110

102:11thinking 36:3,12,16 37:15 57:6

57:11 69:18 85:6 87:6 91:18third 32:23thought 25:11,11 26:14 33:4

36:10 37:7,8,13 38:7,20,2242:18 46:10 57:1 58:6 64:1965:22 67:3,10 71:14 86:1888:11 94:23 102:22

three 14:11 16:4,10 18:14 72:2,3threw 91:14throat 96:13Thursday 7:17 8:4,8,11ticket 39:5till 67:19time 3:13,18,18,24 6:15,23 8:20

10:3,16,19 13:10,20 14:13,1716:22 17:3,4,5 18:16,20 19:4,520:23 21:3 23:2,15,16,20,2125:2,20 28:13,14 31:1,5,7,1231:14,16,18,25 34:3 35:4 37:2339:14,17 43:2 44:6 45:16 46:1247:11,13,14,16 50:9 56:2,2257:2 60:12 65:17 68:21 69:2071:10 74:22 79:22 82:22 83:2586:13,19 87:3 89:15 92:2,793:15 94:2 95:17 98:9,15 99:899:12,13 100:11 104:10

times 14:7,8 15:2,13,15 16:4,1117:15 18:14 19:8,22 71:25 72:372:21

today 4:7 7:3 12:14 13:3 93:2595:2 98:14 99:3 100:1,13

told 5:25 7:6 20:5,5,8 21:22,2323:6,12 24:12,15,17 26:7 28:729:24 32:11,15,17 33:18,21,2234:3,5 35:4 36:5,15,17,22,2436:25 37:7,14 42:15,16 43:1844:10 45:23 47:1,9,11,17,22,2548:4,19 49:3,13 51:3,13,1952:9 55:17,18 56:1,1,7,1257:25 58:1 63:9,9 64:6,1165:20,23 66:4,21 67:7,18,2368:20,20 69:6,13,24 70:13,2072:8,14 73:21,21,22,23 74:5,1075:5 76:16,17 77:19,21,2178:10,11,17,24 79:1,11,24 81:681:10,12 84:16,17 87:18,1988:25 95:2,9,12,13,14 96:5100:1 101:22 102:14,15,17,21

Total 17:17,18town 93:7,10Tracey 1:5,21 9:21 10:12 11:25

15:3,20 16:21 19:1,5 20:5,7,821:24 22:10 25:21 26:1,5 27:832:15 33:18 35:4,12 36:9,10,1836:19 38:20,23 39:12 42:15,1743:21,23 44:13,14,15 45:2346:5,19 47:9,11 48:3,12 49:1349:18 50:6,12 53:19 54:1955:18 56:1,18,18 57:1,5,9,1759:8,19 60:7 61:18 62:10,14,1663:24 68:7,11 69:3,6,24 70:1,970:18 72:12,20 74:11,22 75:575:12 78:1,10,11 79:19,22 81:681:10,12,22 82:13 84:10 85:1785:20 87:10,21 88:15 89:1,6102:3,16

Tracey's 10:23 41:15 54:14,1558:13 62:3 70:5 101:10

training 54:5transcript 104:7treated 46:6,11tree 28:8,8,9,10,12Trent 4:14,17 77:10

trial 10:16,22 98:16,21 99:9,12100:1,4,11

tried 39:9 44:5 45:4,8,10,1057:12,21 58:7 65:14 72:8

trip 42:24,24 57:16truck 19:11true 29:6 32:14 33:9,20 34:17,20

34:23,25 51:6 57:22 102:25104:8

truth 5:20 6:1 7:7 94:7 95:3,1598:23 99:6 102:5,8,17,19,19

try 26:22 43:25trying 8:19 16:19 35:13 36:21

37:9 89:2tumor 59:12turn 91:12turned 78:5TV 43:9twice 14:23 15:8 16:2 92:17two 11:6,8 15:20 16:4,10 32:11

36:2,23 38:13 47:1,8,10,1048:4,9,10 55:19,25 58:10 64:2365:11 67:14 71:25 82:24 86:1186:12 87:12,19 91:9

typed 4:14,17typing 3:19

U

Uh-huh 11:3 16:9 18:22 31:499:22

uncomfortable 96:5underneath 32:25 33:2 66:1

90:23 91:1understand 4:2 26:25 31:17

36:13 46:2 58:8 76:5,6 85:5,10understanding 41:22 68:9 85:16understood 52:7unexplained 21:25unintelligible 75:24unlocked 63:12unplugged 42:14upset 61:24 68:1upstairs 4:22 42:25 43:7 65:11

67:24,25 68:2,8,11,13,21 69:2470:2

use 10:7 58:15 69:18usually 15:17 17:21 72:24uttered 87:5

V

v 1:4vague 73:24variety 56:15viciously 67:12victim 1:22 94:12,14,16Vileta 5:7 6:9 29:5,10 32:8,17,21

33:18,24 35:10,11 39:11 46:546:18,23 48:11,15 49:6 54:2155:18 56:7 57:9 71:16 75:4,1090:6

visit 17:23volunteer 98:4,5volunteered 98:6Vote 97:21

W

wait 83:20,21Walk 42:11walked 43:1 44:2,5walking 64:22 86:13,14 87:2wall 43:23 45:5,18 69:1want 20:15 26:5 31:16 38:11,12

40:25 43:6 44:18 45:1 59:20,2165:23 68:4 69:15 73:17,1876:24,24 77:23,24 81:19 84:21

85:4,5 91:15 92:3,6 95:7 96:697:15 100:22,22,24 101:14,14101:15 103:2

wanted 9:16 11:9 20:22 21:242:15,17,19 43:4 44:15,16 58:873:23 74:13 79:22,23 80:684:17

wants 44:13washed 64:11wasn't 10:21 20:22 21:11,11,11

21:12 25:22 31:14,14 34:2,1734:23 38:25 39:1 43:19 49:1453:7 64:20 66:19 74:11,13,1974:19,20,20 75:23 77:22 78:881:11 82:13,22 90:14 91:1102:25

watch 63:17wave 14:25 15:24 16:7waving 39:2way 3:25 21:4 37:14 45:9 65:25

81:13,14 83:12 84:1 102:12wearing 55:8Web 81:4,6wedge 44:5 45:10wedged 54:19 65:25Wednesday 8:13week 5:2 7:12,14,15,22,23 8:17

14:12,23,23 15:3,7,8,18 16:226:23 77:9 89:19,22 95:5

weekly 14:19 15:16weeks 47:16 74:10 95:21Wehde 32:12 34:6 35:13,14

36:21 37:4 50:23 51:1 85:2186:7 92:17 93:3,16,20

weigh 44:3weighed 44:4weight 101:1weird 87:7welt 22:25welts 22:1,18,21went 11:5 16:9 23:7 34:10 37:9

41:20,21,22,24,25 42:10,12,1242:16,21,22,25 43:2,2,7 44:1044:12 53:23 59:23 60:5,7,966:14 67:11,21,23 68:7,11,1268:20 69:24 70:1 76:21 78:1480:21 84:13

weren't 88:25we'll 53:22 94:25we're 11:13 35:20 68:6 82:12

85:8we've 81:3 85:3 99:3WHEREOF 104:15white 78:5wife 20:21witness 1:22 51:23 69:15 94:14

94:16witnessed 27:11wolf 46:18wondered 44:24words 37:20 101:12,12work 8:17 45:13 97:13,17,24 98:1

98:4working 8:16 36:11 58:21world 32:24 33:1,10worried 33:15worry 95:14worse 38:12wouldn't 13:8 21:6 28:9,11 54:11

63:21 79:15 80:23 87:19 88:1596:16 102:10

writing 80:5wrong 27:23 39:8

Y

Y 2:7 29:18 35:20 48:3 55:4 58:1375:4

yard 97:21yeah 5:5 6:14 83:11 94:8 96:22year 5:8 13:15 14:12 28:18,20,22

29:10,12 40:7,12,14 41:3,459:11 80:3,13 89:2

years 12:5,22 32:6 33:13 37:940:22 56:19 57:13,15,17 72:2173:15 81:16 85:8 100:24 101:7101:9

younger 28:19 89:3

0

011900 1:2

1

1 10:10 48:210 1:10 28:1510/4/11 2:10100 1:15100-103 2:4103 2:11104 2:1211 91:9 104:16110 44:4115 44:312 33:1312/26/01 2:713 12:5,22 33:13 34:7 41:14

56:19 57:17 85:8 100:2413th 18:1,8 39:13,18 40:21 61:7

62:5 79:19 82:7 83:8 84:592:11,14 93:22

14th 6:7 10:6 77:1215 11:2 97:1919 10:101998 12:6,22

2

2 35:17,19,21,22,24 44:42001 18:1,8 28:16 34:7 39:13,18

40:16 41:15 59:2 60:24 61:762:5 79:19 83:4 92:11,14 93:22

2002 32:3 58:242011 1:10 4:19 5:11 6:7 10:6 29:5

30:11 32:18 33:17 35:11 39:1246:4 48:23 49:25 54:20 55:358:12 70:4 75:3,17 77:12 81:2189:13 90:1 104:16

23 28:1826th 59:229,35,48,55,58,75 2:7

3

3 94:33-100 2:43:29 1:1030 5:11 30:11 32:18 35:11 46:4

48:22 49:25 58:12 75:3 94:130th 5:10 29:5 33:17 34:1 39:12

54:20 55:3 77:1130-second 5:243230 71:53238 71:5

4

4 89:13 90:14th 4:184:30 31:24133 76:144145 79:1462 82:4464 82:16

State of Iowa v. Tracey Ann Richter MARY HIGGINS - 10/10/2011

COURT REPORTERS OF IOWA 1.800.270.3376

111

49 11:1

5

5 44:45th 1:19 8:13,14,155:43 91:2150309 1:19505 1:1950583 1:1555 91:8

6

6th 8:9,116,70-71,75,99 2:96:06 91:226:20 2:11 103:962 101:2

7

7/14/11 2:873 71:3

8

8th 58:24810 1:1989,99 2:10

9

911 67:22,23 68:19,2093 76:3 78:25