Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 10 NOVEMBER 1926

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

l7l6 Questions. [ASSEl\IBL Y.] Quest~ons.

WEDNESDAY, 10 NOVEMBER, 1920.

The Sc>EAKER (Hon. \Y. Bertram. Jiarec) took the chair at 10.30 a..1n. -

QUESTIO?\S.

LOSSES FROM l'ILFERIXG ON QcEENSLAND RAILWAYS, 1925-26.

dr. EDWARDS (.Yuncwuo) asked the Secretary for Ruihnlys-

" (1.) ·vv:,at is the amount of th0 reported loss.· from ;Jilforing or other­wise on the Quccnslancl Railway during last financial ye~ r?

"2. ·what compens~ttion ''"''s paid by the Railway Department."

Tho SECRI;TARY FOR RAIL\VAYS (1-lo::l. .J. L•rcornbe, Ii~cppe1) replied-

" 1. Figu;·os not available. Such figurrs arc not reliabl·-., as repGrto·d losses are invariably t.•x.aggerat0d.

"2. Not claims paid, £7,684."

POS7P0)!E}JENT OF PENALTY FOR LATE PAYliiENT oF CrwwN REXTS ox Accoc:xr OF DRoUGHT.

Mr. EDW._\RDS (Nananuo) asked the Secretary for Public Lrrncls--

" In view of the disastrous rc>sults of t)p presPnt prolonged drought and the

[ ·'!t. Moore.

danger of many farmers leaving their holdin~·s because of their inability to see an:v prof-pect of meeting their obliga~ tion.;.;. \Yill hL' 1uako a definite pronouncc­uwnt that payrnents due to the Crown 1.vill be postponed in necessitous cases and that the 10 pm· cent. pcnaity for late pa:.'nwnt of rents will not be enforced? ·"

'lhe S.ECRETARY FOR PL:BLIC LAXDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, OymzJic) ropliPd-

" Each 110crs::itous case "',-ill be dealt with on its merit~."

STATE AssrSTAXCE DAIRY HERDS Pc;RPOSEs.

FOR li.EPLEXISIDIENT OF AND FOR .L\'~RIC1JLTLRAL

Mr. ED\YAHDS (Tanrmuo) asked the Scc­retn ry for Agriculture-

,; _A.s the present prolongc·d drought has rr1mo~;t v:i}Jcd out the herds of rnany dair;nncn, and has practically reduced many farmers (both dairy and agricul­tm·.d) to a cond 'tion of insolvency, will he uqn, upon the Govcrnmenc the> noccs­~iry of 1uaking provision befor0 the end of the ses-·ion. whereby finan~ial a -sist­anf'o rnay be given for the re1)lf~ni:-;hment of dn iry herds and for agricu]tuud pur­poses en'll in thoso cases \Yhcre sufficient security is not available, in order to lessen th(l real dan~Ier of 1nanv far1ner~ leaving their holdG1gs and to help to presr~rYe the production of the State? "

Tlw :".ECRETARY FOH AGRICULTURE (lion. \Y. Forgan Smith, Jfackay) replied-

'· ThP \~Ticnltura] Bank ~\.et of 192.3 ~l,tfficicrit pl'OYisions to enable

, ' to be dr1lt with on thoi1·

B\F.\L- ~ C'on-" TJsED ox STATE H.AIL\VAYl.

:Yh. S\YAYI\E (Jlirani) a'ked the Secre­tar~c for I~aih\ ;tys-

" 1. \Yhat qunntity of Daralaba coal <:.as t:sed un the State raihya-.,rs during the ;.-c_ tr tcnn:i:nnting 30th Jun2 last? -

" 2. \Yh.~t quantlt)T .?f this~ c~al \YEti' nsrd n1~ tnc Rtatc railw·-,vs ctunng the :n~;r t~rrninatlng 30th Jun;', 1925'?.._"

Th<> (I-Ion. ;r.

!·'Oit R .. A.IL\V .. AYS rPpliecl-

" 1. ~~.56.\ tOEC.

"2. 24.735 tons.''

,Jorxr TO BmsrAxE A:-m SoJ:TII HosPITALS BOARD.

".h. EL :VI. RUSSELL (Too,bul) aBked the St>crcL ry for Public \Yorlcs~

"1. h it a fact that the Government ha' approYed of the action of the Bris­

and South Coast Hospitals Board r • !ling for applications for the position

of joint a1·chitects to this Doard'

"2. Is it a fact that block No. 1 of the schcnw for the remodelling of the General Hospital has alrca.dy been com­pleted by the Government ·works Depal't· rno1t and approved of by the Board?

'' 3. Is it a fact that the plans and specifications of block No. 2 have already been completed by the \Yorks Depart· InPnt and rccriYed the sanction and approval of the Board?

Questions. [10 NOVEMBER.] Questwns. 1717

" 4. Is it a fact that the general layout of the remodelling of the General Hos­pital, including all roads, 18\·els, and drainage scheme, have already been com­pleted by the Public \Yorks Department and approved of by. the Bo<trd? .

" 5. Is it a. fact that there are five blocks included in the scheme for rcmolel­ling, and that each block is practicaliy a replica of block No. 1 alrectdy com­pleted, IYith probably a slight variation in the levels?

" 6. If Questions Nos. 2. 3, 4, and 5 are answered in the affirma-tive, then why should outside architects be called in to double-bank the work in connection with this remodelling scheme already carried out by the Public \Vorks Department, and with the full sanction and approval of the Board, and salaries paid for by the taxpayer?

"7. In view of the fact that the Go­vernment provides 60 per cent. of the cost of all hospital work, what is the reason for takiug away from the Public \Ymks Department the work that is being per­formed by the department without any extra cost to the taxpayer and saddling the taxpayer with an additional yearly amount bv wav of architect>' fee~. which will probably ~mount to £6,000, based on the average yearly expenditure of £100,000? "

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \VORKS (Hon. :H. J. Kirwan, Brisbane) replied-

" 1. This is a m·atter for the BrisbaEe and South Coast Di trict Hospitals Board, acting under siatntory a.uthority.

'' 2. The work is being carried out by the Department of Public \Vorks and is approaching completion.

"3, 4, and 5. Yes. '· 6 and 7. ';Sec answer to :\o. 1."'

CORRESPOKD':C.:CE Df RE ALLEGED St:BSIDY TO Qc,cExSLMm PROSPECTORS AKD ORE PRODLCEHS' AfSOCIATION, CHILLAGOE.

Mr. NOTT (Stanley) asked the Secretary [or Minco-

" Will he le.y upon the table oi the House copies of all correspondence deal­ing with the subsidy of £5 per week granted to the Queensland Prospectors and Ore Producers' Association at Chilla.­goe?"

'rhe SECRETARY FOR l\IINES (Hon. A. J. Jones, Paddington) replied-

" Thoro is no correspondence dealing with a subsidy of £5 per week granted to the Queensland Prospectors and Ore Pro­ducem' Associ.:tion at Chillagoe. Kat­withstanding the fact that it has been referred to by the honourable member and others as a subsidy, the correspon­dence which I now table will prove that the £5 weekly is a payment for a check weighman, whose duty it is to che<Jk all weighing, off-loading, and sampling of oro parcels in the interests of the pro­ducers. The payment is made by the Ch1llagoe smelters, as was stated by me whpn the l\1ines' Estimates were being discussed.''

Whereupon, the honourable member laid on the table of the House the pa.pers referred to.

BRISBANE TRADES H.\LL CELEBRATION OF .NIKTH A:-;NI',iER:ARY oF RusSIAN REvOLUTION.

Mr. NOTT (Stanley) asked the Secrdau for Public \Yor'ks-

" Referring to the report in the ' Daily Standa·rd' of 8t.h in-t3nt of a 1neeting in the Trades Hall, Brisbane, in celebration of the ninth armivouarv of the RuHian revolution, are the persons who took part in such celebration still connected with the Labour movement in Queens­land?"

The SECRETARY FOll PUBLIC WORKS (Hon. M. J. Kinvan. IJrisban•:) re;olied-

,, The function of the Department of Public ·w arks is the construction of buildings, de., required for public pur­poses aud the administration of certain Acts of Parliament. It is not concerned in the political YlCWS of any persons taking part in any celebrations or demonstrations."

S"GGESTED VISIT OF ::ii[DmE:cs OF PARLJA'cExT TO CHILLAGOE.

::Yir. O'KEEFE (Chillugor) asked the Tr· •a-surer-

"In Ylew of the recent discussi0n jn this Chamber on Chillagoc, will he con­sider the adYisability of a party com­prising rnernbcrs of both sides of the !louse vii-<iting Chillagoc. '\vith a view to ~r:cing for thcnlsc1vc .3 the groat nc~'f'S­;;;itv fo1· GovE'l'IHncnt assjst(tL·:e to the mi~1ing industr:.~ in that portion of the Statt<. as n1c:ntion('d in thP fanner Auditor-General's re:JOrt of 1924-25? "

The TREASURER (Hon. W. Mc-Cormack, C irPs) replied-

;, rrhero ls no nccc::sit:v for the ~ug­gcst('d uction. ~Tcn1bcrs rnay visit Chil­h:.r.:nC' and sc'CUr(' first-hnnd knowledge on_, their own initiative. The Govern­ment has proYided a1nple c~vidcncc of its \Yillingnc · to fl• iRt the rnininl{ industry in all pa;ots of the State, particulnl:· in that portion mentioned in the honour­able member's quEstion."

SuGGESTED Fomunox oF BRrsnAxE HARBouR Tm;sT.

Mr. O'KEEFE (Clzi/Tygoe) asked the Trea­surer-

•' \¥ill he consider, at a later date, reviewing the shipping facilities at !~re­sent cxistino- in B·risLanP, and hand1ng ea me ovur fo a trust the same as is in operation in Sydne:_:;-? ''

The TREASURER (Hon. W. :YicCormack, c'. irns) replied-

" The question of amending the law relatino- to the control of all harbours in the St~te has received the serious con­sideration of ~he _Go-.~crrment or;, more thrrn one occaswn m recent years.

DEEPENIXG OF BRISBANE RIYER AT SEVENTEEN­MILE Rocrcs.

l\!Ir. ELPHII\STONE (O:rl(y) asked the

" As considerable time is lost and expense to traffic incurred on account of the Seventeen-mile Rocks passage on the Brisbane River being impassable except

1718 Supply. [ASSEl\lBLY.] Supply.

at certain stages of the tide, will he state-

1. "\Yhether it is practicable to suit­ably deepen the passage?

2. If eo, what expense is likely to be incurred ';

3. ·would the Government favourably consider the undertaking of such work ii the commercial need for so doing wc-•·e demonstrated to them? "

The TRK\SURER (Hon. W. McCormack, Oairns) replied-

" 1. Yes.

"2. To make a channel 100 feet wide and 6 feet deep at low water is estimated to cost £4,900 for dredging and £900 for necc·ssary plant.

" 3. The matter has already received consideration.''

ARTICLE IN " DAILY MAIL , ON CHILLAGOE BY DR. Jm.;sEN.

Mr. O'KEEFE (Chillagoe), without notice, asked the Secretary for Mines-

" Has he read an article in this morn­ing's 'Daily Mail' by Dr. Jensen on the mining industry in the Chillagoe district?"

The SECRETARY FOR MINES (Hon. A. .J. Jones, Paddington) replied-

" Yes; I have read the article." (Laughter.)

SUPPLY.

RESUMPnox oF Co~nnTTEE-ForRTEENTH ALLOTTED DAY.

Pir. F. A .. Cooper, lJrerner, one of the panel of Temporary Ulwirrncn, in the chair.)

TREASURY. ANALYST.

Th~ TREASURER (Hon. ~'airns) : I beg to move-

" That £8,987 be ' ~\nalyst.' "

Iton1 ngrecd to.

W. McCormack,

granted for

lfAHBOT:RS AXU RII"rmS-DRY DOCK, SOcTH BHISBAXE.

Th TRK'I.SUl1ER (Hon. W. McCormack, Cair: -~): I beg to rnovc-

" Tlnt £4,0',0 be granted for 'Har­bours : nrl Riv:.1·s-Dry Dock, South Tiri- ~anc.' "

:Yh. ELPIII;\ISTO?\E (Oxley): The Trea­~.urC"r t:1is rnorning· \Vas good onough to gjve me some information regarding the obstruc­tion in the Brisbane River at the Seventeen­mile RJCks, which I understand comes under the Harbours and Rivers Department. 'I'he hon. gentleman said that the matter had already received consideration, and I would be glad to know whether that consideration is favourable or otherwise.

The TR~_\SUllER: Unfavourable.

Mr. ELPHINSTONE : The reason I brought the matter up is that the Brisbane River affords a meam of transit for a large quantity of ballast and concrete ingredients which is brought down the ·river by barge,, and public authorities are making a very

[lYJr. Elphinstone.

considerable use of the river. The time wasted in hrmginC( up these barges on eit~er side of the Seventeen-mile Rocks obstructwn is quite considerable, and, if the Harbours and Rivers Department feels .disposed to go into this matter, I believe it c·1uld quite reason­ably call upon the local authorities to make some serious contribution to,,·;ards the <'Oet of removing this obstruction. I have bhm approached in this matter becau~e> it is in the Oxlcy electorate. and I nndnst_and that the obstruction is vicwN1 quite scnously by the peopl<' concerned. I would like to ask the Treasurer whether. if overtures are made to him bv the powers that be in this rcga·rd, the Government can be relied upon to give some assistance in the matter.

The TREASURER (Hon. \V. McCormack, Cairns): If people vitally concerne_d are prepared to help us in the matter, It_ Will receive fa\'ourable consideration. It IS of no value at present to the dcprll'tment t-o do that work; generally speaking, it is of no value to shipping. It is not proposed, of course, to dredge the river to IpswiCh, so as to have a water-waJ on ono side, a road on the other side, and to have railway deficits in con:::equence. In years to con1e, h?we-yer, we shall probably have river commumcabon. In other countries they take full ad\'antage of water-wavs for commerce. and that will inevitably h:anspire here; but at the present moment it is no advantage to the Har­bours und Ri-,-ers Department to spend money on dredging at this particular spo~. If th·? parties concerned--the local authon­tiPs and the bargeowners-wish us to pro­vide the m<'ans for enabling them to carry out- their particulrrr work. then I would. be prepared to give some help tmyards dredgmg the spot. If, as a result of this discussir;n. the authorities who are getting the matenal and the barg.eo\vners 1vho are mald.ng n1one~· out of ihe imnsport. approach me. I shall be prcparerl to give favourable consideration to the matter.

J\fr. ELPH!XSTO:-!E: Do you not get a royalty out of the gravel taken out of the bed of t-he river?

Tlw TREASURER: \Ye get a small nyalt~', but they get the gravel.

:\h. KIKG (Logan): In the first place, _l desire to congratulate Mr. Stanlcy on hrs appoi11tmcnt as Under Secretary t? the Tree mrv. aJ ihis is the first opportumty we haw h~d of doing so. Mr. Stanley has won his promotiJn by merit and ability, rtnd I ctm vcry plca,e.d incked to ~ee that he has been appointed Under Secretary. following on the promotion of Mr. Beal as Auditor-General. (Hear, hear!)

In regard to the docking facilities in Bris­bane at the present- time, I 1vould ask the rfrcastlrC'r '< ·hether he is making any pro­vision fo1· larger docking facilitils than we ha ,-e <cow, because it appears to _me th":t \Ve are losing a good deal of cloclnng busi­ness through onr inability to take the large chs3 of vessels which come into port. I know that the st-eamer "Rio Claro," which was stranded some time ago on the North Queensland coast, was taken to Sydney to be docked, because the docking facilities here were not capable of dealing with a steamer of that Pize. Probably some t-housands of pounds were lost in wages, which would have been a great help, as there is such a lot of unemployment in Brisbane at the present

Supply. [10 NoVEl\IBER.] Supply. 1719

time. Pcrwnally I regret that the docking facilities here are not adequat-e. I hope that the 'I'rcasnrer will see his way at an earlv date to have larger docking facilities pro,:ided for such an important port as Brisbane. I received the information with regard to the " Rio Claro " from a reliable source.

The TREASURER: The docking and repairs wjl! in.-olve an expenditure of £15,000. That was in the paper this morning.

:.\Ir. KING: I did not notice it. I did not have tho "Daily Mail" at breakfast time as usual. Joking apart, I think it is time that a port of t-he importance of Bris­bane had greater and better facilities for the docking of vessels.

Mr. IlARTLEY: Why don't you build one yoursel.-es?

Mr. KING: Don't ask silly questions. I have a word or two to say about the Rock­hampton harbour. The board there is hope­le·,.;h- in arrears with its interest and prin~ipal, and, according to the report of the Auditor-General, there is absolutely no prospect of its meeting its payments.

7\Ir. I-I.IRTLEY: Your port. cannot get into arrears because you have the State Treasury to dip into. You have not a Treasury of your ovvn.

:.\fr. KING: In the report of the Engineer for Harbours and Rivers I notice the follow­ing paragraph:-

,, l<'orty-two veB'els, excluding launches, were docked during the year, the number in the prevjous year being forty-nine.

Tor::.nago of Governn1ent. vessels other than dredge plant .' ..

Tonnage of dredge plant Tonnage of other vessels

Tons.

878 7,722 7,565

Total tonnage ... 16,165 "

There ha, been a falling off in the tonnage of other n ;sels docked, and it appears to me that the object of the Government is not to utilise the dock to the extent thev should for !h docking of vessels other thai1 tho'c belonging t-o themselves. It seems to be the desire to keep the dock in reserve for Government vessels more than for privatel:·-owned vessels, therefore I think the dock i lLsing a good deal of private work whi( h would be s'mt to it if there \vcre n1ore encouragement given t.o dock vessels here. Of course, I know that the capabilities of the dock are restricted and that it can only take vessels up to a certain :;izc. Stearners of a la.rger tonnaq;e than for_nf'rly lll'8 now being built, and jt i, nt~ces­sary to make bdter provision for that class of ,-:;tc·Pm.er.

In this connection I would like to make a compa.rison to show that the earnings arc not anything like what thev ought to be. In 1886-a year which I take because exactl,v the same number of vessels was docked as in 1925-26-the working expenses were £571 19s. 5d., the earnings from Go­vernment vc 'Sels £1,200 18s. 3d., and other earnings £2.462 Ss. 1d., making a total of £3.663 6s. 4d. The working expenses in 1926 were £3.834 Ss. 5d., the earnings from Go\'crnment .-cssels £1,852 5s. 6d., and from other Ycssels £663 lls. 9d.-a total of £2,515

17s. 3d. as compared with £3.663 6s. 4d. in 1886. The earnings last year were the lowt··t since 1900, when the:· amounted to £2.387.

I do not know whether I would be in order in dealing on this yote with harbour dues and harbour boards.

The TEYIPORARY CHAIRMAN: The hon. gentleman will ha.-e an opportunity of dealing with that matter when discu~sing the .-ote for " Harbours and Rivers " under the Trust and Sjlecial Funds, at ·page 113 o:" the Estimates.

J'\Ir. KI:N'G: Probably I shall have an opportunity of saying something then.

The TREASURER (Hon. W. McCorma.ck, ('airns): I am sure that the hon. member for Logan has never given sorious thought to the question of providing a dry dock in Brisbane. or ho would see the danger of inYesting a large ~urn of public money in a Go.-ernment undertaking that would have no possibility of making a sufficient return. There are seve,ral big dorkyards in Australia, but none of them is paying. The dockyuds in Sydney have many advantages over a dockyard in Bri-bane. Sydney is the port for all the great ocean traffic to Australia. and for a Yery big coal trade. Thcrcfor<'. it has many advantages over Brisbane. But. in spite of thosp advantages, and in spite of the fact that they secu•re practically all th0 work a\·eilahlr. there is not one of thmc un-dcrtakinr-s that i.e not a burden upon the neople. It' would be a very fine thing to 1un-P a dock 1n Br:shanc. bl~t. IVC' n1ust fare tlw hch. Tt wonld cost f-:lmethinQ· OY<'r £250.000 to put down a decent dry dock to do the work thctt to-clay is being- carried out b,- :\!art's dock. Cockatoo Island dock. or Garc!Pn Island dock. If we werP able to :-.r'curP our fair sha·re of the doC'king \Vork. '"" would be taking- awav onlv a very sma 11 rronortion of the ,;·ork -done hv those dock­,·ards: and. eY<'n if '\'f' Q'Ot that work, WC'

\vonlrl practicall,v be c:cllerl nnon to Jwnr the f'J,uital eo;;:t on one-anarter of the work pPr­fn;·mccl hY those rloA<,, 'fhiq question has h ·en a !natter of inYef:tig~tion on m:1n:v ocra3lon:-:., but under present cond-itions the"C'

h0 nn g-ood nurposc srq~v00 b:v- sp0nclin.t2'. £300.000 in estnblishin<r n rlo,_·k in

Bri~baJ~C' \Yhrrc thrre is 110 f'hanrc of its na·.-ing-. Mnch as 1\'P would like to have a rlock in B!.'ishanc. "'CC m1nt re ·.nomber that. thrre is ::t fir-urc bevond 'vhirh '"'-'T' <:nnnot go. enrl T for one. aftQr the! spccc:h T mad<' ~-estPrdav. nnd rtftrr n1v gf"TH'rfl.l yj0-~~- of ~nattN~.· , ,·rivccl "t onlv aftPr rt P-'oorl deal of cocritai:~on, C\m~idpr that -~vc f'honld !lot

'1dclk• onr t~xnaY0rs vrith nn nn(lf'Y'tn.kln5{ i"118t cnnnot no;;;s·ihlv n:r-. mr>J'f'l~.,. for the ~~kP nf h.nxipo· sonv"thin!! in Bri"h1nt-. On0 has onlv to ir;vp.:;fi~TAh" the qnPstion 8::< I Y..'1.ve do,-10, ~nrl shuh; thr- rflc::nlt'< of th0 Px:ncri­nlont. in ::.'~0'\v Ronth '\Va1f·s irt dr:ckvard con­strurt1on o::Jnd the ·work rnrriPd 0nt to con­YincP one's sr-H thnt. '"h-il;;;t i'hc PXDPndj­tnrP of ~mf'h n ]ar.Q.'P sum of monf'y in Bris­bane \vonlrl rrive employment to a numbe,r of men. it would be much better to use the mom"- in come other direction. where there would he hone for som- fa.vourable return from the mon'-'v, and at the same time giving employment and incurring a lesser interest burden.

Mt'. KrNG: Have you not already selected a site for a dock?

Hon. W. McCormack.·l

1720 Supply. [ASSE11BL Y.J Supply.

The TREASURER: A big general· scheme has been formulated, which, no doubt. some day will be an accomplished fact: but, if hon. memlJcrs look into the facts, thej' will find that what I sav is true. It is obvious to me that in competition with the big dock­yards in the South that are nov; securing all the shipping •·· ork of Audralia we could sccn:·e only a fraction of that work. Sydney is the deeput seaport in Australia. Ships art clcnn0d in Sydney, and they can coal therP. Sydney possessos n1any advantagt:s on'r Bri~l- tnn in ·regard to oversea shjpping: but in S}Jjte of thc3e adYantagcs~ in addition to the ·' ork >vhich is offering in Sydney ordinarily. the dockyards there arc· not able to pay. The ontlook for the 0stablishment of a dock in Brisba:1e is, therefore, not very bright.

:Mr. HARTLEY: If a hal'bour boc·rd is formed in Brisbane and that bodv .derides to build a dockvard. will the Go,-er'nmeEt peTmit that to be done'

The TREASL:RER : I do not think that l!lW harbour boal'd or trust, knowing the fa;t.s as thcv arc available to everybody, woL!ld conte;11plate spending £300,000 or £400,000 in mch a project.

It9m (Harbours and Rivers) agreed to.

LAND AXD INCOME TAX.

The TREASL.:RER (Hon. W. JicCormack, Cairns): I beg to move-

" That £66,250 bo granted for 'Land and Incorne Tax.' "

Mr. ELPHINSTOXE (Oxliy): Evidently the cnrrent :~ear is going to bs a very busy ono in the Land and Income Tax Depart­ment. There is an addition (.o the vote this year of £5,368, and. if one glances t-hrough the items, one obst'rves the appoint­ment of another senior inspector. five more inspectors, one rnoro prosecuting officer, and ~cvcral n1or(-~ clerks and assee.sors. As we ra.nnot reason :bb- look for an increase in P~Ycnne from lalld and income t.ax asscss­rncnts for thiR yeJ"r, I prcsurr1e t.hat n1eans that this department will engage in a parti­cularly active prosecution of those who are supposed to hav£' evaded taxation.

J\1r. PEASL: rrhat is very necessary.

'Mr. ELI'HINSTO'JE: I do not sav it is not necessary, neither have I argued 'that it is not necessa.ry; bnt. I do suggest that the Commi.oo.ioner of Taxes, enjoying the po·wers vc"'ted in him. \vill exercise reason­able care and consideration in making these pro:o:ccution·,. and avoid harassing tactics a·s far as possible. \Vhcn men are endeavouring to keep their businesses alive, as they are in t!Fso days, under very aggrayating cl!·cum­stanccs--

0PPOSITI0)1 ME>IBERS: Hear, hear [

Mr. ELPHI2'JSTONE: When one sees thE' turnover diminishing, and one has a staff that o:oe tries to keep going without di,_missing any of them-which is a very easy th111g to do-the position is very considerably aggravat-ed when the Commissioner of Taxes enjoyjn~ thP extraordiPar:v po,vers that ar~ vested in him, adopts tactics which only make the position intolerable. I am not going to suggest that he is not- fully t'ntit.!ed to use everv mE,ans a.t his disposal to see that eYasions are not passed over without the man facing t-he result; but I do say that he has a very considerable

[Hon. W. McCormack.

latitude allowed him. and I hope and trust that he will exercise it in a manner that will not make his tact-ics more hara:.sing than aro ncce£sary.

[11 a.m.]

There was an Income Tax Con1111issioner in QtiOensland, in the person of Mr. Hugnes, who enjoyed extraordinary affection amongst the income taxpayers. That is rather an unusual thing, to have a man officially leYying the taxes that fall within his duty and still enjoying the affection of the tax­payers. It clearly shows that Mr. Hughes performed his dut-y both to the taxpayers and to the St-ate. I deprecate any sugges­tion that Mr. Magee is doing anything other than what he considers a fair thing, but at tiines h~trasjing tact.ics are adopted which ore almost unbearable. Such tactics are particularly distressing when people are avoidint: the taking of drastic action in the matter of curtailing their staffs. When these nu1nerous inspectors corne around and prac­tically live upon the doorsteps of business i<lstitutions--1 am not speaking for myself, because I have never scccn one-it has the effect of causing the employer t{) say, " Oh, well, I will cope with the situation by reducing my staff, anJ so make conditions easier." I have jcrt 1·iously referred to the matter in this Chamber, and I now desire lo suggest to the Commissioner of Taxes t-hrough the Treasurer that ho has a distinct obligation to perform to the gen,,ral public as well as to the Treasurer and his depart­tnent. ~\Vhen tin1cs are bad, as they are to-day, he can materially assist the situatio.l by aYoiding th2 adopt-ion of harassing tactics so far as lies within !tis power.

Mr. PK\.SE (Herbert): I wish to deal with the fallacy which the Oppcsition have been Hogging to death, moro padiculady this scs _ion. when we we:::c dc:tling \vith the Tn ·tsmer's Financial Statement. I refer t.o t:w charg'- s rnade by hon. 1110rnbers oppo­sit,, tLat ta~ation in Queensland, compared with other States and particularly with rcg~rcl to n1anufacturers, i, so excessive and baras~ing that it drives secondary industries out. of (~ueensland.

The most extraordinary thing about the matter is that, whilst the Leader of the Opposition and other hon. members opposite were making those charges, the Vict-orian Treasurer, Sir Alexander Peacock, was bring­ing forward measures providing for incrPased taxation, on which measures his party .,-ere defeated. It is also strane:e that the last measure which the Victo~ian Parliament introduced in December last was one dealing wit.h increased taxation, and particularly incomf' tax. \Vhile hon. members opposite ,, Ne pointing to the shocking example of Queer.sland with regard to taxation, and lauding Victoria jo the skies as the State where taxation is imposed (.Q the minimum d,·gree. I took the trouble to turn up the Vic-torian "Hansard " on the subject. To my surprise I found that members in the Victorian House during that debat-e 01'1.

inr0me tax pointed to Victoria as a shock­ing example and held up Queensland as a '.hining example in the matter of taxation, more particularly with regard to secondary industries. I intend t-o quote from Victorian " Hansard "-not from speeches delivered by Labour members, but from speeches delivered by members. of the same political persuasion as hon. members opposite, and

Supply. [10 NOVEI>iBER.] Supply. 1721'

also fro!rl mcn1bers who are recognised as leading authorities in Victoria on manu­facturing and importing industries. I shall quote from the debate in the Vict.orian Legis­lative Council-the House of privilege-to "·hich Labour mombel'3 arc not appointed.

An 0PPOSITIO~ }fE!.!BER: The Victorian Legislative Council is elective.

Mr. PEASE: My quotation is from the Victorian " Hansard " for December, 1925, at pages 3078 and 3079. The r;entlema,n whom I am quoting is the Hon. J. K. Mer­ritt, who said-

" The propos«l to i ;crease the tax on companic, by 2d. in the £ will certainly prove very detrimental to the interest-s of the State. At tho nr.· ant time the manuf~cturers oi Victoi·ia hav.· to pay abm1t 14 per cent.. and 15 per cent. in thE> shape of cliroct tax .tion. This is in addition to tho £40,000 increase in the land tax."

The TEMPORARY CHAIR:YIAX: Order ! Order ! I would point out to the hon. member that. this is -a vote for the Lane! and Incon1c Tax Department, and the adn1inis­tration only mny bo discnc-sed, and not n1attcrs affecting le[rislabon.

i\Ir. PEASF,: I am replying to the charge made by the Opposition that land ancl income taxation in Queensland is exc :ssive.

The TEMPORARY CHAHD;JA::;f: The hon. member will not be in ordf•r 111 clis­cus·~ing that on this Yoic.

:Mr. PEASE: I suppose I can cl a! with the report of the Con:nni~sioner of Taxes?

The TE::\IPORARY CIIA.IR:v1AN: The hon. n1ernbcr c~-n do so in so f::tr a3 jt affects the administr 1 tion.

11·r. PE.ASE: The Cornmissioncr of Taxes in his report for the year 1925-1926 shows that there wcr8 229 manufactnr, s asses~cd in Qtwc,Jslancl for the year 1925-1926, who·CJ gTo:;;s incorncs average £14,685; the trtxable incmne::; avcr2.g-cd £5,515, r:_nd the tax charged averaged £670, l~aving an average oet income of £4,845 after making all deduc­£ions. This ;yorks out at appwximately 12! per cont. That is the taxation on manu­facturers in Queensland. Tho debate in the Victorian Parliament shows that the average in Victoria is from 14 per cont. to 1.5 per cent .. ·and that is '"hat I \Vant to C'OTDn12nd to this Committee. Therefore, imt · <1 of the taxation in Queensland on n1nnufactur0rs beinr; n1oro excessive than it is 1n VTi12toria, the fi ·~ures auoted in the Vidorian Pn rlia­ment show that the taxation in Victoria is 14 per cent. to 15 per cent., whcreo.s the taxation in Quof'nsland on manufacturers amounts to onlv 12~ per cent. I want the Committee to note theso figures, because it is quite evident that there is nothing· what­ever in the charge that taxation in Qu•· ·ns­]and is excessive as comna.red with the other Statos. As a matter of fact. a comparison was tabled in the Victorian Parliament showino- the taxation in ~ach State on manu­factmi~o- concerns. The Hon. W. Angliss, as repo~ted in page 3082 of the Victorian "I-Iansard." state~ a case in Victoria the •;alue of plant and buildings was £163.000, and the yearly profit £9.500. The following t.able was read by that gentleman:-

"COMPARISON TAXATION-EACH STATE. South Australia ... £1,031 "--

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order ! Order!

Mr. PEASE: Victoria 593 "--

'I'he TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order ! Order ! I hope the hon. member will not flout my ruling, otherwise I shall have to ask him to •resume his seat.

Mr. PEASE : I want to deal with other details in the report of the Commissioner of rraxes--

" Merrhants and manufacturers gener­ally have, according to the figures avail­able at present, had a. very prosperous year, and it is largely due to that fact that the average value of aBwssmcnts issued during last year shol~ s an increase over the previous year's ass-essments. n

That shows tlw,t taxation in Qur-onsland is not excessive, and it shows, too, that all the nerchants and manufacturers in Queensland have had a good year. And the figures. I have quoted show that the manufacturers m Queensland pay approximately 12~ per cent. taxation, whereas in Victoria they pay 14-pcr cent. to 15 per cent. taxation. The com­parison, too, is unfair, because in Victoria there are 102,245 taxpayers. whereas in Qneensland there are only 24,587 taxpayers.

Mr. MAXWELL: What wbout " Search­light?"

Mr. PEASE: Your crowd paid "Search­light." Again we were charged by the Opposition with taxing the people off the land in Qnecnsland.

I wish to give the following comparison of the State land taxation in 1924-25 and 1925-26, respectively :-

Absentees Con1Panies .. Town residents

:Hr. KELSO:

---- ------

1924-25. 1--19_2_5--26.

i No. 1

Ammmt. );o. 1 Amount.

1

£ £ 283 7,55~ 219 i 5,259 779 177,693 777 I 177,447

6,366 55,876 6,598 i 54,499

They are getting less.

Mr. PEASE : They are getting less. Tho taxation has been reduced. Graziers and 1 1,757 1 131,5421 1,528 I 122,294

pastontUsts 1 I Farmers .. 14,150 1 26,06-1 3,812 24,812 Dairy farmer£ 932 1 6,601

1 882 5,972

Fruit growers.. 226 1 5-!7 · 206 498 Others (co•1utr:v 1,371 I 21,481 ; 1,186 17,696

lands) I i ,

Totals ll5,864 £427,362 , 15,20Bj £408,4n ___________ _! _______ ! ________ '----- ---··

The point I want to n:alte with regard .t"' the incomb tax report IS that the .Commrs· sioner draws special attention-and he has been doing it every year-to the fact that t.his State has reduced taxation to the work· ino- farmer. This is what he has to say in hi~ report for 1926-

" In the amended Act of 1922 a special exemption was granted to farmers and graziers. Details show that the tax was reduced to the extent of £23,869, and. that 9,642 persons benefited by this ,.,pecial exemption, of whom 7,507 were totally exempted from taxation."

Mr. Pease.]

1722 Sttpply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

That will show why the amount is reduced. The amount was reduced because the taxn.· tion has been reduced. Everybody knows that the T·reasurer introduced a Bill some time ago reducing the taxation in this dir,oc tion.

The hon. member for Oxley asked why more inspectors have been appointed. The Commissioner for Taxes has this to say-

" :Merchants and manufacturers g·cner· ally have had a very prosperous year, and it is largely due to that fact that the average value of assessments issued shows an increase over the previous yenr' s assessments.

"Investigations by inspectors resulted in collecting increased taxation amount­ing to no less than £180,562 from taxa­tion evaders."

They were not Labour men-working men­but men on the same class as the hon. mem­ber for Oxley represents-the importers and agents.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMA:::-J: Order !

Mr. PEASE: The Commissioner points out-

" I am !lOW appointing six more inspectors to deal with defaulting tax· payers."

It is a shocking commentary on the corn· mercial morality of this State when the Commissioner fnr Taxc·s says in his report that he has to appoint six more inspectors -not to do the usueJ work of the office but to police the commercial people of the State. The fact that the investigations by inspectors resulted in collecting no less than £180,562 from taxation evaders is a shocking com­mentary on the commercial morality of Queensland, and that is wh0 this State has to take such measures. Personally, I was astounded when I saw those figures. Every­one knew that a certain amount of taxation evasion was always going on, but nobody knew that in a State like Queensland, with only. a few thousand business taxpayers, the evasiOn amounted to nearly £200,000. It is a shocking commentary, and it is no wonder that we have to introduce measures to tighten up the Act. The contention of the Opposi­tion that this State inflicts more taxation than Victoria is absolutely wrong. Gener­ally speaking, it is higher in Victoria, wh·ich has a Government of the same politics as hon. members opposite.

Mr. H. M. RUSSELL (Toombul}: The figures quoted by the hon. member for I-Ier­bert prove nothing. The fact remains that on a per ctpita basis taxation in Queensland far exceeds taxation in the other States of the Commonwealth.

Mr. PEASE: That is wrong. You cannot prove it.

Mr. H. M. RUSSELL: I believe that it is the rule in the Land and Income 'Tax Department that no refund is made unless it is applied for. vVe know tho,t in the majority of cases the taxpayer pays the tax demanded of him without demur· but there is no doubt that in a great numbe·r of cased w_here the taxpayer is overcharged, unless he discovers the overcharge and makes applica­tiOn for a refund, none is made. I do not think that is quite fair to the hxpayer. I believe it is the custom in other States and other parts of the world to make refunds voluntarily without requesi; by the taxpayer,

[MT. Pease.

and I bcliC\'e the Commissioner will see the iustice of mv contention that it should be done here. "

There is another matter which might be eo"sidered by the Govornrnent-tha t is, the method in which taxable incomes are assessed. In Queensland the practice is to demand income tax on the income earned in the preceding year, so that, if a trader makes a los'3 jn the succeeding year, he can g-et no redress by way of refund ·from the department. The Commonwealth Taxation Department averages incomes over a period of five years, so that the taxpayer is assessed on his average income sprc:..t,d over that period.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMA:0!: Order ! That is reall:: a matter of legislation, and not of administration.

Mr. H. M. RUSSELL: I contend that the mattor should be taken into considera· tion by the Government.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN : It is a matter for legislation, and cannot be dis­cussed now.

Mr. H. M. RUSSELL: Probably you are rig·ht. Mr. Cooper, and I shall not transgress any further. I hope, at any rate, that the Commissioner will take notice of the point I made previously.

Mr. SW AYNE (Mirani}: I want to say something before the vote goes through, in view of the importance of the subject of taxation as it affects Queensland at present. I think it is generally granted that it is very heavy indeed; but at the same time there can be no excuse for anv injustice in its incidence, and I "·ould lik<i" to point out that tbe system of taxation is very unfair in ,ome o{ its incidence.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Surely that is a matter affecting the legislation on the mbjcct., and not the a:dministration ?f the department? The Act 1s not under d1s· cussion now.

Mr. SW AY:::-JE: I understand that we can discuss the metho-d of income ·taxation, and the point I want to discuss is the method. of averaging income. \Ve have no legi"latlon nroYidinrr for some fair s~,~stoni, and i: would noint out that the met.hod adopted noV:, is not a fair one. Take the primary producer, who during a peri?d such as that throuo-h which we arc nassmg has no increase i~ his stock whatev"er-nothing but loss and a piling up of overdraft. When a good year comes. in which _there is an increase in stock and. perhaps. hrg-hcr prices. he may have a fairlv larg-e profit. Under the pr~· ent system wo ftnd that he has for TrlOl'0 to pay jn taxation than a person 111

sornc other occunation. Trho over the HUYJe

period has recc·ivcd a similar amount but n -s received it regularly year by year.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order!

Mr. SW_\.YNE: I certainly think that nine men out of ten throug-hout the country dist-ricts a?"ree thn t there ~hould be a morn inst and equitable method of averaging inco1nes.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order!

Mr . .:lWAYNE: There is another aspect of thQ n1atter. If a parent enters into a pc rfcctly legitimate partnership with mem· ber; of his famil;,, he is penalised. At t"he

Supply. [10 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1723

present time our great desire is to keep young people on the land ; and there can be no better way of doing that than by ;:i\~ing then1 an interest in a fa.rm. The Treamrer pointed out Jhat bogus partner­ships were entered into, and it was necessary to amend the law to deal with such trans­actions; but mv contention is that there ·.>hould be som~ means of discriminat-ing betweell alleged partnership agreements entered into for the distinct purpose of defrauding the State of revenue, and cases where perfectly bona fide arrangements are made. There c·-.me under my notice quite rEV'cntly a case of a parent who was penalised upon entering into a bona fide arrangement.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. gentleman is discussing matters affecting legislation. Parliament has already approved of the taxation laws, and they cannot be discussed.

Mr. SW A YNE: The question is whether it is po,.sible to ameliorate the condit-ions under which these people are suffering. I would like to know whether the Act is so hard-and-fast as to make it impossible to ameliorate the conditions in such cases where bona fide partnership agreements are entered into. It is unfair to ask a man to pay taxation on the income of another individuaL

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: OrC!er !

1\Ir. SvVA Y::'\E: I would ask the Treasurer wh0n replying to the criticism of this vote to inform us whether there is not a means by which a perfectly legitimate partnership can be freed from any penalt-y. I would like to know whether anv discrimination

"1n bo n_ade between a pa1:tnership entered into between st.rangers, \vhich is entered into palpably for the purpose of defrauding the department and a partnership entered into between father and son. That is the point that I am trying to make.

l'il:r. ROBERTS (East Toowoomba): I desire to say a few words in connection with the administration of this department. There should be some limit of time, in which the Cornmis--ioner of Taxes has the right of assessing retrospectively. I do not wish it to be understood that I am espousing the cause of the person who has not sent in a return, whom the Commissioner mav find some day loaYing the State and theii calls upon hin1 to 1~<1ko a return. I am not handling n brief for that individual, but I want to deal with the position of men or women who make t-heir returns as they think reasonably regularly. I do find occasion­allv-I haYe one case now-where a man is called upon to give an explanation on a matter that has occurred some years past. I ha.-e another ca~e where the Commissioner discovered that, whilst a taxpayer furnished a Federal r2turn, he did not fonYarrl a Stat-e retum. That taxpayer suddenlv discovered that he was being ~ssessed on 'a return for some years past. There must be a closing time. I cannot see why such a set of cir­cumstances should apply to the individual and not. to the department. It is unfor­tunate that the Land and Income Tax Department does make mistakes. It has the machinP-ry in operation and its action in eonnedicn with past returns somet-imes sub­jects men in country districts to considerable worrv. Thcv suddenlv receive a letter from the Commis~ioner and appear to misunder­'i'tand the position, for I am sure they at-tach

considerably more importance to it than the Commissioner intends it to convey. They b0lieve that it is something very serious. They arc caller! upon to give an explanation of a Inatter that occurred several years previously, and very often their minds can­not carrY them back so far. It therefore causes tl{em a certain amount of worry and annoyance. If after a number of years the Commissioner discovers that. he has missed an individual and he po··oesses documentary evidence in the office, he should allow that case to lapse. I know that, if the Commis­sioner makes an assessment, he can go back for a considerable period, but, if the tax­payer requests the consideration of a matt-er !hat has occurred several years back, he is informed that too long a time has elapsed and the department cannot deal with. it. That is not. reasonable.

There is another point. A few weeks ago I had occasion to obtain information in connection with a homestead leasehold tenure. The Commissioner gave an inter­pretation with which I ent-irely disagree, and with which every hon. member repre­BCnting a country electorate will also dis­agree. That is why I desire to refer to the cr,se. A man who takes up an agricultural farm enters into occupation and fulfils all conditions. so far as getting the freehold tenure is c·)r:.eerned, in order to obtain exemption from land tax by putting in a sevr'n years' occupat.ion period, is confronted with the decision of the Commissioner which onh- takes into consideration tho date he ac!-~wlly freeholdcd the property. That is unfortunate. \Vhilst the individual con­cc'rnecl will be able by careful thrift to pay any rcnsoiHtblc demand, yet there are hun­dreds of men ',>:ham this decision will affect who ,,-ill fmd it a hardship to obey the decision. A man who is actually making his freehold should not be at a disadvant-age as compared with the man who has the capital to acquire freehold land straight out. That is what the Lar'd Tax Department is rloin;. Tho selector takes up a lease of land under a t-wenty-J·ear tenure with the right to freehold it at any period of the tenure; but, because he desires to use his money in order to develop his land, he does not make it freehold until the last possible moment. I emphasise that point., as that is the interpretation of the Commissioner, and I wish to bring that under the notice of the Treasurer. The seven-year period will start onlv when a man has the freehold , it le in his possession. I contend that the minute a man finishes the lease for five years he should e:1ter on the freehold term.

[11.30 a.m.]

The TK'dPOR \RY CHAIRJIIAN: Order ' The hon. member is getting a little wide of the vote.

:i\.Ir. ROBERTS: That is the inhrpreta­tion of the Commissioner.

The 'TEJ\IPOR \RY ClLURMAN: Order! \Ye arc dealing ,-it-h Supply, not with inter­pretation of Acts of Parliament.

Mr. ROBERTS: If one cannot raise the point on this vote, I hardly know at what stage it can be raised. AnYhow, I have gone far enough to draw attention to the matter. The hon. member for Herbert was given a considerable amount of latitude--

The 'rEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: 0Tder !

Jfr. Roberts.]

1724 Sttpply. [ASSE::VIBL Y ] Supply.

l\1r. ROBERTS: I also would like to be given some latitude.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order ! Tho hon. member has been given a fair amount of latitude.

2\Ir. ROBEHTS: I want to touch upon one matter which was ventilated by the hon. m em her for Herbort. Ho talJ<:ed of the repmt of the Commissioner, which pointed out t.he very fortunate financi a! position of the mer·chant and trader of Qu~ensland. That may apply so far as indent agents or mcr­ehants nre concerned-people who purchase and transfer goods-but so far as our secondary industries are concerned the posi­tion is a tragedy. I know that twenty years ago there wore two boot factorir-,; employing 400 men and women. To-day there are on! twenty-three men and seven women employed in that trade.

The TE:\iPORARY CHAIRMA:\: Order:

.:\Ir. RODERTS: Can it be contended that that industry is ilourishing? It is one of the industries in the State.

The TE:\1PORAHY CHAIRJI.L\:\': Order!

:\fr. RODERTS: I submit to your ruling, :Hr. Cooper, as you are the person io judge Uw n1ntter.

:Mr. DASH: ·what are you trying to prove?

:\Ir. ROBERTS: That the Sbte is not in the sfltisfactory position alleged by the Ccm­mj ion0r of Taxes.

Ylr. COLLINS (/Jo ·en): In the reports of t.hc C'ornmissionor Df Taxes on lncon1e tr1x a.nd on l ~ nd tax wo ha Ye two cf the most interesting docnm0nts that are prescnL~d t0

Parliao11er:t. \Ye heal- a lot in this Chambi>r from time to time about economic hws. The

economic law that operates in Queens­also opcratr in other countries of the

'iYnrlJ, a,nd \YC' crrn f-ind in thclc,~ report the !ogical conelnsicn of that law. Tht 38 revert, ew, ble us to Pl:'P w:Lo is l'Cceiving a very larg proportion of the wealth produced 111

the S1 nto of Queensland. The income tax rrpo:rt is and aLvays has be-en a very interest­ing do~nn1ent to m~. and I ha.ve 1nade a special etudy of it for a number of years, and. in the light of that report. I fail to see nny r0ason vrhy we should be alarmed at tho vo~ition in QnH"ndand. The wectlthv still remain wealthy. We still have fifty-si~ tr1xpa vers wi tit a taxa hie income of over £10.000 each. They have not much to com­plain of, although the "Brisbane Courier" this morning was complaining about heavy taxrttion. It is all very well to complain a.bout hem-y taxation, but such people do not complain about these fifty-six people who have an accgregate income of over £1,500,000. Even if they are heavily taxed, such people are on " very good wicket indeed.

I was pleased to hear my friend, t.he hon. member for Herbert, deliver his speech this mornin,g, becg,use in it he replied to those hon. members opposite who are always claim­ing to be representatives of the farming interests of the State. The hon. member gave a comparison of State taxation on such people. The report of the Commissioner of Ta.xes, as quoted by the hon. member for Hcrbert, shows that over 7,000 primary pro­ducers were exempt from land tax, so I hope we chall hear no more about the poor farmer being taxed off the land. I should

[iVJ.r. Roberts.

like to see those two reports broadc!!st m Q_neensland from an educational pomt of ·ne>,v.

I '':ould draw the attention of the Com­mi'8ioncr of Taxes to what appears to me to be something worth considering. \Ve ":11 know we have about 1,600 hotelkeepers m Queensland. and I find from the figures in the Commissioner's report that for the year 1925-26 only 471 of them paid income tax. It will take a lot to convince me that of all the hotelkeepcrs in Queensland only 471 earned sufficient to pay income t·ax. When the hon. member for \Vynnum was Treasurer some years ago I drew his attention to a similar state of affairs that existed at that time, and in the following year there was. a l'Onsiderablc increase in the incon1e tax pa1d bv hotclkccpcrs. As we all know. tlie return g:iYcn by the Comn1issioner of rraxcs shows the anwunt of income tax in arrears each ,,car, and the last rctnr'1 shmYs that the ;,mount. in arrears at 30th J lillC, 1926, was £612,995. For the year ended 30th J u.ne . 1925, the arrears only amounted to £459,b57. [n oth0r words. the amount in arrco,rs has inerea .rd by £153.438 compared with the amount owing at 30th ,Jun?•. 1925. It .n:ay be that the drought conditions prevailing lw ye had something to do with that. but It cecms to me that, if we had received the \\·halo of those arr~ars, y,'(' would have had nu d{ fit it in our finances last year. In t hesc two reports, I do not see any sign of ruinatjon.

~lr. 2\i.IXWFLL: What about the unem­ployed?

~.lr. COLLil\S : I am dealing with people who have incomes. Far,cy the interjection of tho hon. men1bor for Toovv-ong ! The nnc!Hployed have very srnall incomes, and the-,- do not come within the scope of the l'l'!Jod of the Commis"ioner of Taxes. \Y_ e bear a lot in i.his Charnbcr about econorn1c law. and {Jno of tho c-"u::ns of unemployment is the ('COllO!nic law which enables a few rwrsons to take a larger share of the wealth ;,f tlw countl"i than thov are rcallv entitled to. I am not going to alt·Ol' my" views in rcrarcl to income tax and so forth. What this part\· aims at, and what 2.1! Labour pnrtie~ tl;ronghout the world ain~ at,. is to bring abou1. a more equal distnbuhon of tlw ' alth that is produced.

The 'l'Kl\lPORARY CHAIK.VIAJ'\ : Order !

}[r. COLLINS : I am dealing with some of the wealth that is produced, as mentior;ed in the income tax report. \Vhen we e·:amme it clo<ely. we find that the bulk of the mcome tax in Quccmland is paid by lees than 5,000 por,ons-~n•ry "calthy indeed-and the bulk o' tho -land tax is also paid by less than 5.000 persons. I hope, therefore, that i_n the future "e shall hear no more about t.his Government taxing the people oH' the land. Let us get dov·n to facts. What the Govern­tnent have been doing, according to the 1·eport of the Commissioner of Taxes, is to tax the people who are wealthy, and also to tax the large wealthy landowners. There i< nothi:1g wrong in that. I notice that the Commifsiancr points out. that merchants and manufacturers have beeu doing fairly ,,·ell in Queensland. That is the reply to ~on. nwmbors opposite. who have been contmu­ally telling us that, owing to our high taxa­tion. manufactories are not being estab­lis''ed here. Notwit.hsta.nding the drought ·,yhich prevails in Queensland, I am satisfied

Supply. fl0 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1725

that, v: hen y;c get next year's incon1e tax report. we shall find a similar paragraph m the report with regard to this same class of person. M~rchants do not go to the wall r•vcn in drought. times-possibly some of then1 becorno prosperous in drought times. The 1nore \VC ?:tudy these returns the more ;ye should keep the ideals of the Labour JHOYerno:Jt iu Yiow. We have to realise that th. c.urw economic law operates throughout ;.he world in regard to the capitalistic system of society, which enables a few people to become Yel'Y we::tlthy. 'l'here is nothing wrong in taxing people who <'an well afford to pay the ta,xes which are required to carry on the services necessar~,· in the interests of the SL~h~. ..,

''Io:-~. W. H. BARNES (Wynn1lm): I had not mtenclcd to speak at all this morning, but rhe hon. member fo·r Bowen has mad" some state:ncnts which are absolutely absurd. ile n1ade so1ne reference to the arrears of income tax shown in the report of the Com­tniss~oner. It sin1ply n1eans that the payi11g pubhc--aud m.•.ny of us know how true it is -have to go to the Commissioner and ask for an extension of time. The hon. member for Hcrbert drew a comparison between 1924-25 and 1925-26, and showed a difference of about £400,000.

::\Ir. PEASE: :'-/o.

HoN. \Y. H. DARNES: That is a groat <liffercnce, but the explanation is that the conditions of taxation arc such that it is becornjng almost i1npossible for many people to pay. It is not that people want to dodge their obligations. References have been made this morning by the hon. member for Herbcrt ,,hich are ahsolutely unfair. The hon. nwmber suggested by inference that, so far as this particular taxation is concerned, men jn commercial life v\·erc 11ot honl":>t.

1\lr. PEASE: I did not say they were not honest.

Hox. W. H. BARl'~.ES: Even the hon. 1nec1bcr fo"L~ Bo\Ycn rnado the st:ttcment. dravrin~ his inforrnation from the~ rq)nrt of ~ho Con1n1issioncr, that only 471 hotelkcepers had paid inconlC' tax. and ho ,,-·ultcd to knov:.r what had become of the re et? I would like 1 ho Committee to note that in connection with some of the things which have been said, and dravv~ their ovrn inferences.

Mr. CoLLD!S: I said it when you ;.-ere Treasurer. I have never been afraj.d to sav ~ .

.Hox. W. H. BARKES: ·what a diffc,rence i)r t1-:c :1 the tin1c \Yhc:n I vvas ~Preasurcr and

\vith all the n1oncy that is con1ing is no comparison at alL All l

cnn sa\- tLat tho hon. n1cn1bcr 'vho n1ade th:1t reference a]so made H'fE'rE'nCG to the nppointment of inspectors. I 'Would sugg( ,t that tho,,c inspectors should bo put on to another track. so that they may look into the J hings which have boon snggr"tcd by the hon. 1nember for Bo\vcn.

Iu his Financial Statement the Treasurer said that the income tax returns this year wou] d be as good as those of last year. All I can S',y is that I hope they will, and I am sure the Treasurer hopes so, too. Can any­body who vim·\ s Queensland as it is, how­ever. expect that hope to be realised? Here ' c stand face to face with conditions w 11ich "ccm to make it almost impossible.

Now I want to refer to the method of t!:e department in dealing with income tax assess-

mcnh. For myoelf I can only spea-k in terms of bighest praise of the Comrnissioner; but. if you send a cheque in payment for a debt to a reliable f1rm and vou make a mistake [Llld send more than yo-u should haye done, c'itiler tl!e excess will be returned to c-ou or the f-irm will be regarded as dishonest. In the Income Tax Department, however, it t1as been said that, if that occurs, the taoc­paye;·s ha.Yo to discover it them>mlvPs and n,al;e a daim for a refund before they get their money back, If this GoYernment or any Go-,-crnincmt have done that; it is wrong, improper, and di>honost. I notice that the Connnissioner of Taxes smiles, but I say that a GoYt'rnm~··nt depar~n1ent should set an example of honesty, and mark out the course which should bo taken in such t.hings.

T·Ir. PEASE: What about the commercial con1tnuni ty?

Hox. W. H. BARNES: If I know an -thing about it-and I have been in bm>ine~s for a good n1any years and I can face any man without shrinking-the reflections of the hem. member were not justified. I have paid twice for an account and the excess payment has always been promptly returned. Nobody. can sav that the firm I have the honour to be connected with has ever done the t!irtv or miserable thing. I ask th0 Treasurc'i· ;,·hat his attitude is going to be in connection with payments which are made and whinh should be refunded. It is the duty o£ the hon. gentleman to look into t.he matter and see that the proper thing is clone.

Mr. CORSER (Burnett) : One gets tired of the hon. member for Bowen and his remarks on the discussion of this Yotc. He makes comparisons and tries to 'bow that certain people who have been conspicuous in paying taxation for a long time are still able to go on paying, that they are still making profits and are still able to pay taxes. He refers lo a ciac;; of people who he at any rate suggests at·e objectionable members of thL' cornmunity-a class deriving income from their fellow men by improper methods and 1neans. If he exarnines the figures in th0 report of th_e Commissioner of Taxes, it ;,-ill be aJJ)larent to him that the gre1ter put <)f

our iuco:ne ta.x has been derived from personal pxertioH-cxertion o£ body and mind by those cngng·ed in our indue:tries. It has bc:"~l derived fron'i e'nploycrs of other labour P" id under conditions dictated by the Arbitration Cout't-which is a fair moans of lixing the conditions of labour-so that the clacs in the community depicted by the hon. member for Bowcn turns out to be the producers in the < -,mmunity to a very large extent. Let the hon. member look up table " D " of the t'Cport o£ Commissioner of Taxes on land ta" for 1925-26.

The TaKISCRER: Are you going to apply for a refund of taxation to those taxpayers who pm-nee! their money by their brains ;

Mr. CORSER: I am applying for a refund ut. the 'present moment, and I am going to get it. Taking holdings of lee.s than 100 acres, the number of fruitgrowers who are paying land tax is 118, of dairy farmers 124, and the number of farmers 610. The hori. member for Bowen rejoices to think that they have to pay taxation.

Mr. COLLixS: What. kind of farmers are they?

Mr. CORSER: Farmers with less than 100 acres.

lVIr. Oorser.]

1726 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Mr. PEASE: A cane farmer with that area would make a big income.

Mr. CORSER: The hon. member for Bowen says that these people should be taxed. He says they are able to stand up to it, and are standing up t.o it. These are the figures set out in the totals-

Frui tgrowers Dairy farmers Farmers Graziers and pastoralists Others

Number of Taxpayers.

195 828

3,557 949

... 1,049

6,578 Out of that t.otal of 6,578 taxpa.yers there are 3,557 farmers who pay land tax. That is the section which is really getting it in the neck, to the joy of the hon. member for Bowen.

The TREASl:RER : Are they holders of under lOO acres?

Mr. CORSER: No. I have just quot-ed the total. I haYe made the position quite clear.

Mr. CoLLINS: Quote Table " DD."

Mr. CORSER: I am not going to quote figures to suit the hon. member for Bowen. The graziers and pastDralists form the biggest number of taxpayers having holdings between 2,001 acres and 3,000 acres. The hon. member for Bowen refers to these people as objectionable, and contends that they should be taxed. This year those people have delayed paying their kxes. Yest·erday the Treasurer gave a very reasonable explanation of the matter, and pointed out that, whereas last year a sheep man might have earned £10,000 or £50,000, he has not t.he money this year with which to pay his income tax on that income.

The TREASURER: The Commissioner grants them time.

Mr. CORSER: Quite right, too. The hon. member for Bowen says that these people are trying to evade taxation.

Mr. CoLLINS: I said that probably drought conditions might account for it.

J'4r. CORSER: He did not give the ev.pl natJon g1ven yesterday by the Treasurer.

:\fr. CoLLINS: \Vhy do you not quote cm·rect.l;:·?

Mr. CORS~R: No matter how we deal with the figures setting out the number of t~xpaycrs who pay taxe3 on personal ex('r~ hon, we can find nothing horrible about th•,' incom,·; that hrwe been earned. Quite a number of the taxpayers are employt~rs of ln.bour who are complying with awards in m·ery respect. We desire more of such employers. They not only pay the taxes impost cl by Parliament and the wages a\\ ardPd by the Arbitration Court. but they obey the laws of the country. We have no ri -:;ht in this Chambor to docrv them as an objectionable section of the' communitv. Tlwy are the best section of our community. \Ve are not ahle to get on without theffi. That sodion is doing something for the State which keeps the State going. Our Treasurer would not be able to balance his accounts and pay sa lari< s and wages but for them. If we were in the same position to conduct our business as they are, then the land and

[Mr. Corser.

mcome tax imposed on the general com­munity \vould be much lighter. They are a blessing, and not a djsgrace.

The hon. member for Bowen referred to \\ages and capital. He does not decry capital, but says that we should have a fairer distribution of capital. He told the truth when he said that.

Mr. CoLLINS: I said we should have a more equal distribution of the wealth that was produced. \Vhy misquote me?

:lil:r. CORSER : The hon. member spoke of a more equal distribution of capital. That is the principle for which hon. members oppoeite fight. It is not that capital is a bad thing, but they want a moi·e equal dis­tribution of it.

The TREASURER: He said "wealth," not. "capital."

Mr. CORSER: It is not fair to decry those people, who are the producers of wealth and who pay our income tax and contribute to our land tax. They are not the objectionable section of the community which has been depicted. 'They are a section which should be encouraged, and a section we desire to see prosperou3 because on their prosperity depends the prosperity of the State. Increased e1np1oyn1ont and increased wage.:.; sheets are dependent on their increased busi· ness. They are, therefore, most essential and a most important factor in the progres" of our State.

OPPOSITION ME:l!IBERS : Hear, hea·r !

The TREASURER (Hon. W. J\IcCormaek, Cairns) : In reference to the complaint of the· hon. members for Wynnum and Oxley, that the department do not voluntarily refund repayments, the Commis,ioncr of Taxes ha··· informed me that written instructions have been issued in the department that, if any o\'erpayment is made in connection with any assessrnent. a refund is to be forwarded to the taxpayer forthwith.

Mr. EDWARDS: That does not always eventuate.

The TREASURER: I have just discussed tho matter with the Commissioner, and he has asked me to ask the hon. members for instances where that has not boen done, and anv officer \Yho has not carTicd out the wr.itten instructions will be ~sked for an <•xplanation. I ask hon. members to give instances V,' here those instructions have been depacted from, and I will give them to tho Cornmissioncr.

Mr. Kn;o: I admit that I have had one refund made to me voluntarily.

The TREASURER: The Commicsioncr has received letters of thanks from taxpayers who have received money which they had overpaid, and which they did not know

w .. s due to them. If there art' [12 noon.] cases which form the basis of

this criticism, the leagt hon. mnmbe1·s can do is to bring them under the notice of the Commissioner. If some officer is doing that sort of thing, he is not carr:v­ing out the written instructions circulated amongst all officer' of the department.

I do not want to deal with all the matters brought up by hon. members, because some of thorn' are quite outside the administration of these two departments, and that is all we are dealing with. I shall deal with the allegation that inspectors of the department

Supply. [10 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1727

arc persecuting taxpayers. puring my experience in Parliament-and It has been !~no- and varied-! have investigat?d dozens of ~omplaints made by taxpayers m regard to their ae-ecsments. I have made tho~e investigations in the time of Mr. Hughes, m the time of JY1r. Brennan, and of ~ourse during the time of the present Commissioner, when the department has been under my control. Invariably I have found that the department was cm·rect and the taxpayer wrong. In one case it occurred du~in~S the time when Mr. Brennan was CommiSSIOner. I remember a taxpayer in my own electorate complaining. On :eferring. the .matter .to Mr. Brconan he sa1d, "I will wl'lt.e to !rim and tell him that I will have an mvestiga­tion made of his accounts extending back over the years complained of." Jl.'[r. Brennan sent that letter·, and the next mail brought a cheque from the taxpayer for the whole amount of the assessment ! (Laughter.) It is so easy to criticise . these officers, who would have no object 111 persecutmf1 tax­payer.. By doing so they would receive no 1dditional salary, and such actiOn would be of no material advantage to them. One has onlv te inve·stigatc the cases that have come before the courts because people have failed to meet their obligations to realise the 0xtent to which this system of evasion has been in operation. The evasion has been practised by men who ought to have known better-men who were actually registered as to,xation agents by the State-in other words, who were the chartered servants of the Str.te charged with an obligation to attend to the income tax returns of people who had neither the time nor perhaps the ability to make out their own returns. In all cases where the se people ha.ve come before the court wha: has been the result? I have had complaints from big income ta?'pay~rs ma.de florsonally to me, and after d1scussion ,,·I~h them, without any of the knowledge avail­able to the income tax officers, I was able to prove to them that thev were evading the law, both FPderal and 'state. Finally they have admitted it, and branched off on t? a criticism of Governments that tax so heaVlly, ;vhich had nothing whatever to do wi~h the <JUcstion. The incidence ·of the taxatiOn IS the IT·monsibilitv of Parliament, and has nothing-' whatwccr to do with Mr: M": gee. or his officers. \Vhether that taxatiOn I,, h1g.h or low it is definitely stated in the Act, and it is the dutv of the officers of the depart­ment as serv.rmts of the Crown to see that the law is carried out. Take some of the c,jses where prosecutions have oecurred, and again tnrn to rny own electoratc--

Mr. Kr;w: There is a decision pending now.

The TREASURER: I do not want to discu~s cases where decisionR are pending. T knovv of a number of cases in my own district where taxpayers were hauled before the court, fined, and made to pay the assess­ment, their names being struck off the . hst of registered t.:lx agents. Go to Townsvii!e, and the same remarks are applicable. Thoucands of pounds had to be paid by prominent firms in Townsvillc. Is there anything wrong with making those people meet their obligations?

Mr. EDWARDS: No one suggests that.

The TREASURER: Then what is the charge? Is it persecution to make these people meet their obligations? I do not

think it Is. Can we as a Government countenance a registered tax agent ~vading the taxation laws in t.he manner disclosed in the law courts? In some instances it is difficult to understand how men of known honour and integrity-! say th~t advi~edly­have allowed themselves to get mto this false position. I know some of them personally, and I wonder why they were so lax-knowing the men, I can hardly believe it was i:r:ten­tional dishonesty-as to allow the posi twn to deYelop whereby they were brought before !he court charged with dishonesty a!'d con­victed of dishonesty-because that IS what the decision amounted to. I do not think the taxation officers should persecute tax­payers. I had occasion to find fault with a Government officer who made a very indiscreet remark at Longreach in connec: tion with a taxation case. He was not a. taxation officer, but the lawyer prosecuting on behalf of the Government. We do not want people to believe t·hat we persecute them for taxes. \Ve want a system whereby the Commissioner of Taxes and his officers and the taxpayers meet upon a common ground, arrange their difficulties-because there are difficulties-and amicably arrive at. a conclusion whereby the taxpayer is charged only what he actually owes the State and the department is only collecting the tax provided by the law. I recognise that the bulk of the taxpayers have no trouble with the Commissioner. ·when I se,y '' no trouble," I mean that there is no q ues­tion of a prosecution. There is certainly no question of persecution. They go toQ the Commissioner or to his officers, and they light the whole thing out and arrive at a reasonable solution of a very intricate case, and, when that solution is arrived at. and otn assessment is made, they pay their tax and no one is any the wiser. That is as it should be; but in cases where double setA of books are kept; where it is obvious that. there is not only an intention, but fraudulent method of dodging taxation, brought to the surface, can vou blame the Commissioner for pmhing the case to the court?

;' .. Ir. KING : Certainly not.

'fl,c TREASURER: He would be com­pounding a. felony if he did not do that. I can hardly believe that Mr. Magee is •mt to persecute anyone. Individual officr1·s o rn pointed out by some cla"cs of taxpavc:·s as being too zealous. If carr.::ing out their rlntv in a proper manner is going to cause c·iticism. then they have to bear it; but moot unfair criticism in some cases is levelled o r;ainst t.hese inspectors merely because they hevo succocdcd in carrying out their duty. lt is well known that. if these inspectors carpd to be dishon<:'st-if thev carPel toQ make it a personal matt.er-thev' could wink at evasions. The rPsponsihilitv is upon them to report truthful!? t0 the Commissioner the

1te of a man's affairs. No doubt thero arc men in the community who would make it worth while for these officers not to report evasions that take place, because some of these cases run into tens of thousands of pounds. No one can justly complain because an officer does his duty honestly and fear­lessly.

I say again that there is no desire on the part of the Government or the Commissioner to be harsh to the honest taxpayer. The Commissioner should give every facility to

Hon. W. McCormacli:.]

1728 Supply. [ASSE11BLY.J Supply.

arrive at the correct amount of taxation due, and he should and does meet the taxp ;yer and thrash matters out. In the exercise of the great authority that is nc-cess;nily given to him, I think he shows discretion and con­sideration for taxpayers who are in tronble. 'I'he Government do not interfere with him. l\!Iany taxpaye1' from time to time ftnd themselves ir1 difficulties. I cited cases "' s­terday. Those cases are d~alt with by 'the Cornmissioncr in a hunutnD way, and quite a largo amount of taxation duo is c<erried forwftrd from year to year to onab1e the tax­payer who legitimately owes the tax assessed upon a prcYious year's transactions to get upon hi:,. feet again and mc)et his obligations without dislocation being caused to his busi­ness. It is not the intention of the GoVc·rn­ment or the Commissioner in an:,· way to hinder a rnan in the carrying on of his busi­ness by making harsh nssessments or impos­ing hard conditions with regard to the pay· ment of an assPssment, which the man him­self admits to be correct. \Ve must exercise disc1·etion and toleration. \Ve must not harass a n1an Y:ho is earning income, but must gi·re him the opportunity to make the income aed to pay the income tax. That being our policy, I hardly see how the chn ''gcs of persecution which have been ma?e can be sustained. I know that certam sect1ons of the community think they have been persecuted; but the answer to those men is the nrocoedings in conrt and the definite decisions given b:y the co':ut based upon the evidence placed before It. Some people may feel aggrieved, but they have their redress. 'I'hey can go to the court, and if they shoul-d win in any ca-.e we can realise what a song would be made about the Commissioner. But they have not won ono cage. 'rho evidence has been so plain and conclusive that the man in the street. rPading- the evidence in the newspapers, forms the opinion st,raight away that th?rc has been an evasion, and that the dems1on of the court is correct. I believe the Com-111i'>:doner and his staff aro willing and anxious to co-operate with the taxpayer. As head of the dep crtmcnt. I have nlwa:, 3 told the Commissioner to deal leniently with men who arc in difficulties; but there is 'really no need for me to tell the Commissioner that. Ho is a n1an of \\<·ide cxper1cnce and groat capacity, aJC-d is able to distinguish between the man who is evading the tax from the man who is ho1wct, open, o.ncl aboveboa-rd, and he is only trying to got the truth in t11e casr'3 \vhich appc3.r in court.

Mr. DEACON (Cunningha·n): I can quite understand how the Treasurer got that halo from the hon. member for YVynnum. (Laugh­ter. If there were a dozen haloes on this sic'•,l of the House, the hon. gentleman would " pinch" the lot. (Laughter.) The Trea­surer has stated that members of the Oppo­sition have made the charge that the depart­ment is persecuting taxpayers, but no one on thiu side of the House has made that ~harge.

The TREASURER: You did not listen to the hon. member for Oxloy.

Mr. DEACON: I did listen to him. The hon. member said there have oocn caseJ in which a refund has not been made.

The TREASURER: No; he said that peJ·secu­tion was taking place.

[Hon. W. McCormack.

1Ir. Dl~~\CON: I did not understand him to us·~ the word "persecution." But, if one hon. member makes a charge, is that a reason why the Treasurer should make a general aocu.~ a tion against hon. members on this side? Members on this side all have occasion to take difficnlties to the 'I'axation Dep;trt­ment. I have always found the officials there Yery fair, and, when I have taken a case t.here, the justice of it has been recognised. I think the experience of eYory hon. member is that, when he takes a case there, it is dealt with on its merit,. ·what we object to on this side is over-taxation; but we do not blame the department for that. It is not the fault of the d0partment. But I can see from your eye, Mr. Cooper, that I shall not get Yery far on that subject. (L:wghter.)

I would like to suggest, however, that the Commissioner should sometimes go out into the country and meet tho taxpayers thom­Belves. I do not say that his officials are incompetent-those I meet are competent and know their jobs-but in many cases the tax· payers would like to see the Commissioner and discuss their grieYances with him. There are difforonc's between the department and the taxpayers, and, no matter how competent the man ma\ be who is sent out, he does not always satisfy the taxpayer. I therefore suggest that now and again the Commis­sioner should make a tour and meet the taxpayPl'S in the country personally. They cannot all come to Brisbane, and even a member of Parliament sometimes gets fairly tangled up in the income tax law. I have no sympathy with people who evade the law. If we make a law, whether it is bad or not it should be enforced. I do not think there are many w.ho eva.de it or escape in the long run. They have not much luck. (Laughter.)

An 0PPOSITIOX MEMBER: Have you tried it 'I

Mr. DEACON: I have not.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRTCULTURE: Your experience has been unfortunate?

:'Ir. DEACOX: Not so unfortunate as the holl. gentlerrHtn's. I--Ic must not judsre my case by his own.

::\h. COi.TELLO: You must not make an accusation against the Minister. (Laughter.)

J:.lr. DE.:\COl'T: I am not making an ac-cu­sation against the Minister. I only inferred that from the tone of his voice. (Laughter.) At all eYonts, I sn;s;sest that the Commis­sioner should make periodic?.! visits to the cm;-: try, ana I hope that it will be po '.ible for hi m to do it.

Th~rc is onlv one other matter to which I wish to rchr. I think the Government might show some regard in their taxation to the actual value of land held by a man in th0 countzy. A 1nan \Vith a mortgage has to pay on a ocrt~in value at present, although his r('al interest in that land may not b:; half that amount. This is a direction in which the Government might really assist the man on the land. It is a legitimate rcquut to make.

The TEnPORc'l.RY CHAIRMAN: Order!

Mr. DEACOX: I thank you very much for your consideration, Mr. Cooper.

Mr. ED\YARDS (Nanangn): I am sure that every member on this side of the

Supply. [10 NovE}IBER.] Supply. 1729

Chamber representing a country district was pleased to hear the Treasurer say that every consideration is being given to the taxpayer who is in difficultie'. That opens up a very big question affecting the dcyelopment of our country. It is a question where practical knowledge is essential to enable anybody t.o give the consideration which is necessary If the taxpayer is to be enabled to ' ork his business succescfully, not only from h1s own personal point of view but also from that of the State. A Commissioner should have a practical knowledge of the disabilities that the taxoayers in country districts have to endure.- No doubt the p·resent Commissioner has had a wide experience. but as a man who has boon on the land all m:;· life I say that the difficulties with which taxpayers in the country have to grapple, especially those having to do with climatic conditions, make it almost impossible for a Commissioner or anvone else who is not directly interested in th; calling to understand the exact position. It is essential that cverv concession pocsible should be given to taxpayers to assist them oYer the trials of climatic conditions. There should be some system of averaging the in corneR over a period of years.

The TE.YIPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order ! Mr. EDW ARDS: I realise how important

this matter is to the welfare of the State. The Treasurer, when speaking yesterday, nointcd out that a person might make an ;ncome of £1,000 or £10,000 this year, and next year be callcd upon to utilise the whole of that income to keep alive the stock from which he made the incomo during the pre­vious yea·r. That again demonstrat('' the absolute necessity for the Commissioner at rdl times endeavouring to understand the grave difficulties confronting the man on the land. Insisting upon the payment during an adverse yr<lr of a tax made on income derived duri"ng a profitable year may be thec means of doing a great injury, not only to the individual but also to the State from a developmental point of view. The Commis­sioner would bo well advised to get to unde·r­otand the position of country residents more fully from a practical point of view.

IIox. W. H. BAR~ES (Trymwm) : I do not believ0 that there is any hon. member on this side who would advocate that any consideration should be given to the man furnishing a false return for the purpose of dcfraudirig the Government. The people shou1d nla1,- the game so far 8~ t-he Connnjs­sione·r is Concerned. I repeat \vhat I said pn viously that, with the experience one has had with the Commissioner, it has always been his desire to do the fair thing by tho individual who a.rr:>roached him.

Item (Larod and Income Tax) agreed to. :r.IARI~E.

THE SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURT~~ (Hon. \Y. Forgan Smith, J£ackay): I beg to rnovo-

" That £82.790 'Marine.'"

Item agreed to.

be

)!ARIXE BOARD.

granted for

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Jfac: ay): I beg to move-

,, Th~t, £1,815 be granted for ' Marine J3oard.

Item agreed to.

1926-5 0

PRINTING OFFICE.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay): I beg to move-

" That £165,066 be granted for ' Printing Office.' "

Mr. KE>;"G (Logan) : Many people who would like to give work to the Government Printer are anxious t.o know whether he has authority to undertake outside work.

The TREASURER (Hon. W. McCormack, Cairns): The Government Printer under­takes outside work. He carried out all the work of the Opposition during the Federal elect.ions. (Laughter.)

Item agreed to.

STAMP DUTIES OFFICE.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Macl-ay): I beg to move-

" That £18,090 be granted for 'Stamp Duties Office.' "

ItPm agreed to.

DEPARTMEN'I' OF PUBLIC LANDS. CHIEF OFFICE.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay): I beg to move-

" That £58,354 be granted for 'Depart­ment of Public Lands-Chief Office.' "

:vir. CORSER (Burnett): It was with some interest that. I read the report of the department for the year 1925. I was very interested in this statement-

" The total area of land selected was much less than was selected in the pre­vious vear. but the total number of per­sons selecting in 1925 was slightly more. It is noteworthy, too, that the lesser area of the new selections in 1925 pro­duced a subst-antial increase in rent over the larger area selected in the preceding year."

The proof is there supplied that our lands to-day are being opened to selection ~t an increased rental value, thereby producm~ a great:"r rent from the select-or than has been the case in the past. The aim of the Administration should. first of all, be to settle our lands in such a way that t.hosP s.,]ccling them will reap a reward equivalent ;" the work they put in the land. We want to make the conditions of land settle­ment attractive. 'Unfortunately that has not been the case. The number of selections t"1k<':1 up shovv·s an increased rental value, vchich is not in t-he best interests of the department or of the State. The report further sta tcq-

" For th~ third vear in ~UC(:CS' ion the new perpetual lease selections show increased figures all round; that is, in the number of selector. area selected, and annl:tal rent."

"\Yhat a wondcdul boast when we know that io the onh tenure under which a person can now ''ecu;o land! The report states that i-lwre has been an incre1ese in the rental value, the individual farms, and the amount selected under perpetual leasehold conditions.

The 'rREASURER: It is a statement of fact.

Mr. Corser.]

1730 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Mr. CORSER: It is a statement of fact bas• d on wrong premises because the selector has no option; he must select his land under perpetual leasehold conditions.

[12.30 p.m.] :ur. PnsE: Go to the other States.

Mr. CORSER: That is a nice invitation to broadcast to people who want to take up land.

:\Ir. HYXES: People who are always decry­ing this State should go to the other States.

Mr. CORSER: I do not want the hon. member to leave us. I would not subscribe even to tha.t. The report indicates that during the year the rents of 214 pastoral holdings were det8rmined under the Lands Acts (Re,-iew of Cattle Holding Rents) ~\mendment Act of 1923. The unfortunate part of that revie\\ of rents is t.hat the grazing selector who had his rent increased, and who "as subjected to increased taxation wl1ieh afterwards broke down, is left to carry the burden while the pastoral lessee has been relieved. Something which ha,s been claimed to be an unfair provision, something upon which the Labour party themselves broke down, has still to be carried by the ~ unfor­tunate eelector, while the burden is taken off the shoulder, of the big man.

We find, too, that-" Eleven appeals were lodged during

the year (all by the lessees) against the rents determined by the Land Court for the serond period of the leases. Ten per cent. of these appeals were successful, tlw result being that the rents as deter­mined by the Land Court were reduced by £507 13s. 3d. per annum."

This Land Court as it is now constituted does not appeal to me at all. It should be a fair tribunal to which a selector may go and feel confident that he will receive justice. Unfortunately, as now constituted, it a,llows the Crm', n to be ;-epresented by a specialist. whose object is to secure increased rental to the Crmm. The Minister must agree that the fairec.t thing would be to have a court to provide a fa,ir rentaL · I have had experi­ence in this matter, when it was proved at the court that the evidence collected by the departmental officers was mere!~· to sub~ stantial·e the claim of the department for increased rental. Several land rangers were sent out with instructions, not to see that a fair rental was imposed, but to secur0 infor­Plation to make it possible for the depart­ment to uphold the increased rentals. If the Minister would investigate the matter, he would agree that it constitutes an injus­tice to the selector. It would be fo.r better if it were made easier for the selector to appco.r, and if he were not confronted by 0xpert officials who are out to see. only that the increased rental is maintained. The rcr)( rt has also this to ::;ay-

. . . . as a consequence many applicants for sPlections have to be satis­fied with country left over from previous years, which fact demonstrates that le.nd of even average quality will, if within reasonable acc,css of a railway, be rea.dily selected under perpetual leasP tenure."

If !;he department wants to boast that all lanJs that were opened last year were selected a.nd that intending selectors had to be satis­fied with lands that were opened and not

f2JJr. Corser.

selected in previous years, the correct impres­sion is not conveyed.

In connection with the Upper Bm·nctt land settlement scheme it was boasted in 1920 that 15.800 farms were to be opened, and that £2,000,000 '\ orth of -railway, were to Le con­~.tructed. Fourteen hundred odd selection« haYe bel'n OlJoned to-clay, and the report claims that 400 more farms will be opened shortl:,'. making a total of 1800 farms and not 15,800. And of the 1,400 faTms opened on! v 800 have been selected ! Numbers of these blocks are still open for selection, so that the Goyernment cannot boast that the settlNnent has been suu,essful, and that the lands haYe gone off readily as has been the e:1.se with grazing farms.

Yir. MoRGAK: What is wrong?

::\1r. CORSER: In many cases the indi­vidual block has not been large enough. In manv c.1ses the conditions and promi;;es of the Government have not been fulfilled. In Yerv manv other cases individual dis~~··,bsfac­t.ioy; has d'iscouraged intending selectors. The land that has bec,n seleded is of first-class quality and unsurpassed by any ;;ettlement that has taken place in Queensland up to lhe present time.

:\1r. RroRDAK: It would be all right with iN'igation.

::'!Ir. CORSER: A survey was made, and expensive propaganda engaged . in in. re~arcl to an irrigation schem.e at Can1a to urigatG the whole of the Three Moon Creek lands, but it did not get any further. The G:JVern­ment went to the Dawson to start an rrrrga­tion scheme, and we have not g-ot very far >Yith that.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAX : Order f Order!

Mr. CORSER: The department is quite right in as~uming that phe lands haYe not been taken up as read1ly as was thought 1vould be the case. and m:wo- farms that were opened two years ago are still a vailab!f; for selection.

There is one interesting little pa ra,;raph in the •report which cla.ims that onl'" ono c-r ·zin<; homestead, with an area of 320 ~cres. noY; remains. For the best settlement on the Upper Burnett and for the bes~ sett!~· me>nt of our lands throughout Queen;;Jand, rt ,muld be advi<ablE' to revert to that par­ticular mode of settlement and give to the intending selector a home~t<'ad of a l!v~ing area with a compulsory ,residential condrtron. and giYe him the freehold at 2s. 6d. ar: acre ]la'. able in a period of years. That IS the bc~t tenure that could be given, and if it were adopted we ,,-ould have increased settle­Inr>nt and gru:ttcr security to enable the settlers to secure advances. I would suggest to the ),1inistcr that he discuss \.ith Cobinet the possibilitY of reverting to the homestead i nnure, !·hereby providing a freehold for the landlcs< man at 2s. 6d. an acre.

The TE:viPORARY CHAIRMAX : Order !

Mr. CORSER: I claim that in dealing with the frrst vote for the Department of L .. nds we have a right to di .. cuss the various phase·- of bnd settlement. and I am submit­ting that tho homestead system would be the best svstem under which to settle our lands. "

Supply. [10 NOVE~1BER.] Supply. 1731

Mr. PEASE: Can you tell us if the settlers who have taken up the land are doing all right?

Mr. CORSER : Many of them are, and if \Ye onlv do a fair thing to them in regard to the te;,ure under which they have settled they will do very well. The •report states-

" DurinD' the year the leases of 596 acrricultur~l farn1s expired. 'J1he .~lectors of these had the option of

choosing a ten years' extension of lease or havinD' their farms converted into perpotuatleasc selections. An extension of lease was chosen by 4SO of the selectors in question, while four of them converted their farms to perpetual lease selec­tions.''

There we haYe the evidence of what the settlers themselves want. There were 596 agri­cultural farmers who held their land under a twenty-one voars' lease, and who had an opporhmity -to come under the Act. which provides that the final payment m the twenty-first year may be extended for ten y0a-rs. The Act provides that they shall pay 50 per cent. of the value of the farm in tw•:ntv vc)ar:< and the other 50 per cent. m the b'vei1b·-fi~st year. The alteration which was made in the Act provides that settlers shall have the option in the twenty-first year of applying for an ex~ension of lease for. ten vears or of having then fa·rms converted mto perpetual lease selections. That was . a reasonable and valuable amendment. whJCh was advocated by hon. members on this side for a lonD' time. Only four out of 596 agri­cultural farmers converted their farms into perpetual lease selections, which is evidence to me that the man who is a bona fide holder of an agricultural farm and is actively engaged in working it still wants a freehold tenure. We should consider the feelings of those who are engaged on the land the same as we consider the wishes of employe'JS when we are dealing with industrial matters.

::\1r. PEASE: vVe have to protect them from speculators.

::Ylr. CORSER: The Minister must agree that his department is a most valuable oEe, and plays a very important part in the State. It collects a great amount of revenue, and so long as the rovenne is collected from those who are earning a fair livelihood on the land it is just and reasonable for the Stah to collect it; but we must not allow ourselves to run av,ay with the idea that the success of the Lands Department depends _,rerelv on the number of selecticns taken up Rnd i-ho increased amount rcceivC'd frmn rents. In this case there has been a reduc­tion. due to a L.rgc extent to the operations of the Prickly-pear Land Commi .si on.

In iusticc to tbe Comn1ission we must admit· tlut the reduction of rents has CO'_l­fcrred a huge boon on the State in that rt has offerer! to the people on the land a rrwans of helping them to stay there, and I (.rust that with the further methods which arc beinv. used it will save millions of acres of our Crown csta,te which are unoccupiecl to-dav. I-Iowm-er, when we speak about the milli~ns of acres h-,ld by the State we must rnlisc that it is not all suitable for agri­"ulture or for closer settlement, or even for >mall pastoral holdings. ~everthel_ess we still realise that those port10ns whwh are available and are suitable for closer sett·le-

rnent should be made available on good conditions, and, if we err at all, it should be on the side of generosity, and on the side of giving larger areas rather than areas which are not sufficient to enable the sc•t-tlers to make a living, and that right through-just as we consider the wishes of our industrial \Vorker,-so also we should consider the feelings of those who are engaged on our land, and consider, too, the credit of the State which depends upon the successful operation of their businesses.

Mr. SWAYNE (Jfirani): I would like t.o draw the attention of the Minish·r to the position of certain grazing selectors. As illustrating their position, let me say that last Easter I travelled 70 miles through a tract. of country which was heavily stocked with about 20,000 head. .For 70 miles of that distance there was surface water in only one spot, and on the remainder of that 70 miles the stock were watered by means of shallow wells sunk in t.he sand in the river bed. The settlers were using power pumps in some cases, in other instances hand whips, in others what are known as sand (.roughs, and for seven days in the week some of those settlers were putting in eighteen hours of the twenty-four in saving their stock. They hold the country under grazing selection tenure, and I made it my business to inquire from the department whether, in view of their having to work under those extraordinary conditions-and I understand that since then their supply of water is becoming exhausted so that they are threatened with the absolute ext-inction of their herds-it was fair to charge them rent during such a time. I was informed that under the Act there is no option, and that there is no provision by which the Minister can relieve them of their rentals during such a period. We are told that in com­puting the rent such seasons are taken into consideration, but I do not believe that they arP. I have rend the evidence given before the Land Court, and it always seems to me-I have been fift.y years on the land in Queensland and know something about the matter-that the rents are computed on a Yery high average, and that such seasons as this-the worst we have had for twenty years or more-are not taken into con­sideration in computing the rents. During such abnormal seasons there should be some means of suspending the rent altogether. The officials of the depe"rtment do their best, but they must work within the four corners of the law. I think the Premier informed us that no penalties for non-payment of rent would be inflicted; but, when the selec­tor is left with practically one-tenth 9f his flock, it is very little relief to find that he hns to mcpt. accumulated rents with a rednccd nrning capacity. It is bad enough to live out in those parts without working ci ghteon hours a day and having these charges continually piled up. We h'1Ve been told that if the reduction of 1·ents were' left in the hands of the Minister it might lead to ccbuse. \Ve are thus confronted with two evils, and tho lesser of t.he two evils, in the opinion of the department apparently. is to inflict excessive rentals. The rent is said to be fixed on a fair average basis over a series of years, but this ye:tr is not a fair average year. I would like the Minister to inform us whether any assistance in the direction I have indicated can be given to

Mr. Swayne.]

1732 Vote of Credit. [ASSEMBLY.]

these selectors who are working eighteen hours a day endeavouring to keep their stock alive.

The House resumed.

The TE~lPORARY CHAIR:!'.1AN reported progress.

The resumption of the Committee was made an Order of the Day for to-morrow.

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT.

AR11IS1'ICE DAY.

The PREMIER (Hon. W. McCormack, Cairns): I move-

,, That the House, at its rising. do adjourn until 11 o'clock to-morrow."

That means that the House will reassemble at 11.30 a.m. It is Armistice Day, and I 6nggest that we should meet for the trans­action of business after the time for the two minutes' silence has expired.

HO!-iOl:RABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Question put and passed.

The House adjourned at 12.57 p.m.

Supply.