Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 6 SEPTEMBER 1938

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

270 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Private Members' Motions.

TUESDAY, 6 SEPTEMBER, 1938.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. G. Pollock, Gregory) took the chair at 10.30 a.m.

DEATH OF MR. G. JACKSON.

REPLY TO MOTION OF CONDOLENCE.

Mr. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that I have received a letter from the daughter of the late Mr. G. Jackson, convey­ing thanks for the motion of condolence passed on 10 August.

ELECTIONS TRIBUNAL.

JUDGE FOR 1938.

lUr. SPEAKER announced the receipt Df a letter from His Honour the Chief Justice intimating that in the unavoidable absence of His Honour Mr. Justice Henchman on account of illness His Honour Mr. Justice E. A. Douglas would be the judge to preside at the sittings of the Elections Tribunal for the remainder of the year 1938.

QUESTIONS.

FISH FROJ\i NEW SOUTH WALES.

JUr. WALKER (Cooroora) asked the Secretary for Labour and Industry-

'' 1. What was the total quantity of fish received into the metropolitan fish snpply district from New South Wales during 1937-38 ~

'' 2. What quantity of such fish was sold in the market controlled by the Fish Board~

'' 3. What were the names of the con­signees and the quantity received by each~·'

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND NDUSTRY (Hon. M. P. Hynes, Towns­ille) replied- ·

''The information will be contained in the annual report of the Fish Board to be presented to Parliament shortly.''

RAILWAY PASSES TO INDIGENT PERSONS.

Mr. NIMlliO (Oxley) asked the Secretary or Health and Home Affairs-

'' 1. How many railway passes were issued to indigent persons by his Department in 1937-38~

'' 2. How many of these were first· class passes~''

The SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND IOME A:F.FAIRS (Hon. E. M. Hanlon, thaca) replied-

'' 1 and 2. The information, the obtaining of which requires considerable amount of work and expense, will take some time. The hon. member might repeat his question at a later date.''

DIESEL LIGHT TRAINS.

JUr. YEATES (East Toowoomba) asked the Minister for Transport-

'' 1. What is the cost of constructing a three-unit Diesel light train similar to the last one completed at Ipswich Workshops~

'' 2. What is the cost of running per mile, including wages of driver and guard~

'' 3. Are any more such Diesel trains on order at presenU''

The MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT (Hon. J. Dash, Mundingburra) replied-

'' 1. £7,605. "2. Approximately 9d., exclusive of main­

tenance of way and overhead charges.

"3. No.''

RAILWAY FINANCES, 1937-38.

Mr. MAHER (West Moreton) asked the Minister for Transport-

'' What were the following financial results of the operations of the Railway Department for 1937-38-(a) net earnings; (b) in-terest (on reduced capitalisation) ; and' (c) surplus or deficit~·'

The MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT (Hon. J. Dash, Mundingiburra) replied-

'' This information will appear in the Commissioner's annual report which is now being compiled.''

PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS.

MR. SPEAKER'S RULING.

Mr. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that it appears that we shall reach Private Members' Day within the next few sitting days, and, therefore, I am prepared to accept notices of motions from private members.

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill. 271

W AR:EHOUSEMEN 'S LIENS BILL.

INITIATION.

Tl1e ATTQRNEY-GENERAL (Hon. J. Mullan, Carpentaria): I move-

'' That the House will, at its next sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to ·consider of the desirableness of intro­ducing a Bill to amend the law respecting certain possessory liens.''

Motion agreed to.

QUEENSLAND LAW SOCIETY ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.

INITIATION.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. J. Mullan, Carpentaria) : I move-

'' That the House will, at its next sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider of the desirableness of intro­ducing a Bill to amend The Queensland Law Society Acts, 1927 to 1930, in certain particulars. ' ' Motion agreed to.

STATE DEVELOPMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS ORGANISATION BILL.

THIRD READING.

Bill, on motion of Mr. Smith, read a third time.

RURAL DEVELOPMENT TRANSFER AND CO-ORDINATION OF POWERS BILL.

SECOND R-EADING.

The TREASURER (Hon. F. A. Cooper, B'remer) (10.42 a,m.): I move-

''That the Bill be now read a second time.''

The Secretary for Agriculture and Stock, in introducing this Bill, gave a very full review of the whole situatio;n and I am satisfied that I need say very little on the second reading stage. As a matter of fact, the survey given by the Minister was a fascinating one, showing the progress that has been made in agriculture from the earliest times in Queensland, the aid that has been granted by the Government to agricultural production, and their recognition of the fact that there is a wide field in which the State might help in developing its primary indus­tries. I need say very little now except to point out some of the main features of the earlier legislation and compare them with those of to-day.

In the earlier Acts prov1s10n was made merely for the payment of liabilities already existing with respect to a holding, or the balance of any purchase money in respect of a holding, or of any stock, machinery, or implements therefor, and also for agricul­tural, dairying, grazing, horticultural, or viticultural pursuits on the holding. There were one or two minor ones, but those were the main provisions of the earlier Acts. They have been developed by amendments in 1914,

1916, 1923, 1929, 1931, and 1934, and right up to the present, when we have comprehen­sive statutes relating to the Agricultural Bank and other organisations that in the past may not have been but which, after the passage of this Bill, will be closely associated with it.

One of the features of the Bill that I may stress for the moment is that the corporation of the Agricultural Bank is dissolved and the corporation of the Bureau of Rural Development is established. I suppose there is really nothing in a name. We have been told that for centuries. To most persons a bank is a bank.

Many persons really misunderstood what the Agricultural Bank was. Ordinarily a bank is an establishment for the custody, loan, and exchange or issue of money. A fund is thereby established by depositors and con­tributors. The Agricultural Bank was not a bank as the man in the street understands the term, and in consequence there has been some misunderstanding. ''The Bureau of Rural Development'' is a far more expressive term and gives a greater .idea of what the bureau will undertake, and for this reason alone I think we should welcome the Bill. The '' Agri­cultural Bank" when all is said and done implies limitations, and the ''Bureau of Rural Development'' is much more expressive.

I admit, Mr; Speaker, that there is not much value in an expression if it is not followed by execution, and I believe that in this direction there is not only room for expression but there is larger room for the execution of the desires that are at the back of this co-ordinating Bill.

As the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock explained, vaTious powers are being co-ordi­nated.

Mr. Maber: A blessed word-" co-ordi­nating.''

The TREASURER: The hon. gentleman, of course, knows what it means. '' Co-ordina­tion'' comes from the Greek word '' co-ordina­tion'' meaning ''co-ordination.'' (Laughter.)

This bureau will assume various powers that have been vested in other organisations for a considerable time. 'fhe vested power in existence since 1901 will be exercised by this bureau in the matter of the obtaining of money. Reading the speech made by the Leader of ,the Opposition, I gathered that he had the idea that a fresh borrowing authority vvas being constituted. I can assure him that that is not so. The power that will be vested in the bureau by this Bill has been in exist­ence since the passage of the 1901 Act. The power given by an Act of Parliament lives until the Act has been repealed. There has been no repeal of this power; it is still in existence, and its exercise will be an important function of this board.

Tbe hon. gentleman will notice that there is a clause-although I cannot discuss the clauses of the Bill, nor clo I. intend to-by which the corporation shall be a local autho­rity under the Local Bodies' Loans Guarantee Acts. That merely clinches the fact that any sums raised by the corporation by use

272 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill.

of the powers that are being co-ordinated will be guaranteed by the State, as are the loans of local bodies. Jt men:-lv enhances the security that everybody feels· there should be in a matter of this kind.

The constitution of the bureau is a matter of some importance that 1 think hon. members will be glad to notice in the Bill. The Department of Agricnltnre and Stock >Yill be represented on the board, the 'i'reasury will bP represented, and the Land Administration Board.

An Opposition Th'Iember interjected.

'l'he TREASURER: If the hon. member tolls us of some power that >Ye need, if he convinces the House that gr•'~tcr powers are necessary, I can assure him that nothing will stanil in the ''ay of giving this bureau all i he pO\Yers that it n~cds to enable it to CIL'Ourago the rural dc•·clopmcnt that this C1onrmnent belicYe to be vital to the State.

Government JUembers: Hear, hear!

The Tl~EASURER: As a matter of fact, "'lten the Labour Party >vere in Opposition in 1914 aml the Agricultural Bank Act was under review, I can assure you that the Opposition made all sorts of recommendations to the Government for the amendment of the measure. Of course, in Opposition it is a Yery easy matter to make all sorts of sug­gestions for amendments, but if hon. members will look up '' Hansaril'' in 1914 and sec what the Labour Opposition proposed for incorporation in the Agricultural Bank Act »hich the Government rejected, anil then look up the 1916 Act, they will see that the then Labour Government incorporated in the measure all the things they proposed in 1914, and moTe.

Anyone who desires any evidence of the earnestness of this and previous Labour Governments in agricultural development has only to make u comparison between 1914 and 1916 to find not only an expression of a desire for development but alw the execution of that desire, >Yhich is the vital point. This measure is another step in the fulfilment of the policy that has been pursued by Labour GoYernments all alon1g the line.

Hon. memhcrs opposite have had the Bill in their possession for some time and I am satisfied from what they said on the intro­ductory stage that they are heartily in accord with the measure and agree >Yith the principles in it. It is an earnest desire on the part of the Government to prevent overlapping, and to use all the technical officers of the departments in carrying out a broad scheme of rural development. Rural development means not the development of agriculture in its narrow sense but the development of ail those things that make for greater production and for greater wealth.

I had the honour of being present on the Peninsula and Orient liner '' Cathay'' yester· day when cups were presented to winning butter manufacturers of this State, and it was pleasing indeed to hear the eulogy paid to the State for the fine progress that had been made in agriculture. It was in 1895 that the first butter was sent from this country,

193 boxes, but this year over 1,001!,000 boxes \Ycrc sent. That spells progr,ss, and in England last year Queensland butter was ranked wry high-it was of high grade, fine il'xtUTe and beautiful quality. I can remem­ber the' time when goou butter was considered to be the product that came midway between Y.unish and axle grease in taste, but to-day Australian butter is of the highest quality. entirely owing to ,the attention given to agriculture throughouc the State.

\Ye have progressed considerably in this connection in the last 30 years, but, believe me, there is room, for e1·en greater develop­ment and when the Bill hecomes law it will co-ordinate the activities of all the releYant dep:utments, bringing them >Yithin the scope of one board anu allo\ving for one agricul­turaJ suney without danger of overlapping. 'J'his >vill make for greater progress in rural <levelopment. In view of the cxcellen t. speech deli1·ered by the Secretary for Agncnlture and Stock ou the introductory stage of the Bill I ne~d say no more, and I have very mnch pleasure in moving the second reading.

lllr. liiAHER (We.st lVIoreton) (10.53 a.m.): The Treasurer has made a rather brief second reading speech on a Dill that I regard as perhaps the most impor~ant that the Government will intTo<lncc dunng the present session.

I suppose that no missioner who has succeeded in making converts amongst a powerful class of people would haYe wuse to be more satisfied than I am this morning because of the GoYernment 's conversion to one of the leading principles of the policy I advocated during the recent election cam­paign. It is rather remarkable, howeYer, to behold this snilden conversion and I do not know whether the suddenness of it is really a good sign. Nor do I know >vhether it will be curried into practical effect in accordance with the terms and conditions of the Bill.

Tll'e Secretary for Public Works: You would not haYe been so sudden if you hatl been returned to power.

l\Ir. JUAHER: Yes, we would have been, because I think that not only is a Bill of this kind necessary but other action also is neces­sary to bring about the development and progress that will provide employme~t for onr people. Whether the Goyernment s con­version has been sudden or gradual makes no difference, but the fact that they have been converted is worth mentioning. How remal'k­able has been the suddenness of their conversion! The Premier, in his policy speech, made no reference at al~ to a policy of rural development-not a smgle word­whereas the Country Party 'based its whole appeal to the people of Queensland on that very principle,

Here we have, in the first session of Parlia­ment after the elections, the Premier and his Government annexing in quite a barefaced manner the main principle of the Country Party policy, namely, rural development.

The Secretary for Labour and Industry: It is strange how you get up in the House and oppose it.

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Go-ordination of Powers Bill. 273

lUr. lUAll.ER: I am not opposing it-far from it; I am going to give it my full support. 'l'he only thing about it, as in the case of the S'tate Development and Public Works Organisation Bill, is that everything contained in it it> nrovided for under exist­ing legislation, e~ept the power of per­mitting the I\1inistex to borrow privately. Thn t is the onh differe11ce. The Bureau of Industry Act of 1932 specifically provided :for a rural development committee. It •Yonld he interc•sting tn ku:nv whether that com­mittee ever got busy, or enr made a report.

The Premier: Yes.

JUr. :iiiAHER: Certainly no action has resulted.

'l'he Premier: That is where you are \'Tong.

Jir. JUAHER: We can only judge by results. We know this: that the Govern· ment made provision for only £30,000 for rmal c1cwlopnent in the bst financial year. That is to say, £30,000 was the only money m·Hlc available from loan funds totalling £:1,:300,000.

The Premier: That is not true. You nrc only rcfening to one item of rural t1cvelopmcnt •vhen you say that.

Illr. biAHER: 'iVhat other items can the hon. gentleman refer to?

The Premier: Any number of items.

bir. liiAHER: I have searched the whole mass of information made available to this House for expenditure that can be genuinely termed ''rural development.'' I am not TCfer­ring, of course, to the wider range of work carried out under Loan Fund activities. l nm basing my reference on the facilities fur rural development made available by the :Moore Government in 1932.

The Premier: You are only taking one item.

J'lir. blAHER: Provision is made under the State Development and Public Works Organisation Bill for the expenditure of funds on rural development. The hon. gentleman has decided to divide the activities of his Government in rural development. This is specific rural developmental work as against public works. There is a difference between the two. As I mentioned, £3,500,000 was expended last year from loan funds, some of it on reforestation and some on main roads work

The Premier: More than £30,000 was spent in aid to cotton growers.

~'fr. lUAHER: Quite so, looking at the wider aspect of it, but I am looking at the rural development scheme that this Bill in the main eitheT proposes to continue or expand. I 'Yant to keep within the limits of this Bill. On that basis only £30,000 was made available foT specific ·works of rural development, such as loans for ringbarking, stumping, snckering, or provision foT water on holdings-all important work that wonld add to the welfare of producers by improv­ing theiT country and help to prodnce greateT

wealth. That is the very basis o:E the Country Party policy.

Nobody can say how far this Bill proposes to create employment under those vanous headings, or what amount of moneY: the Ciovenuncnt will eventually make aYallable for these important works, but judging. by past rec01·ds there will need to be cons1der· ablo improvement because the present Govern­ment, in the particular sphere of rural develop· mcnt to •vhieh I have made reference, have lllude available £482,000 only out of £18,000,000 of lorm funds e~penditure during their periotl of office. That 1s a rather palt~y allocation out of such an immense reservou· of loan fnncls-£482,000 out of £18,000,000.

The Treasurer: How much?

:Jir. 3HHER: £'482,000 out of £18,000,000 of loan money.

Tile TreaR:urer: Why, we than that umount of money roacl over the :Yfarburg Hange. development.

spent more on the main That is rural

}Ir. JIAH.ER: No. Main road construc­tion comes ,,-ithin the terms of the State Den•lopment and Public 'IV orks Organisation Bill and not within the terms of the Hural De.-~lopment Transfer and Co-ordination o:E Powns Bill.

TJ1e l'rentier: Did you ever hear of BaTon Munchausen"?

~Ir. :fi'IAH_ER: I have heard of him, but he is no relation of mine.

'l'he Premier: We shall have to give you a title.

ltir. 1\IAHER: The hon. gentleman might confer a title on a worse man than I. How· e\·er, keeping within the strict terms of this Bill, it is clear that of £18,000,000 loan money the Government made provision for the spend­ing of only £-182,000 on truly rural develop­mental works. In other words, only 3 per cent. of the total loan fund was made avail­able for them. In a State like Victoria or Kew South Wales, where a greater measure of pioneering and rnral developmental work has been carried out over a longer period, and \vhere the area is less th::m Queensland, there ,,-ould not be the same importance attaching to a Bill of this kind. In a highly undeveloped State such as Queensland with millions of acres of country waiting to be ring-harked and with the need for a great increase in water facilities on holdings-I do not mean major or minor irrigation schemes, lv1t imnroYements in the nature of tanks, nrtesim{ bores, wells ancl clams-great import­ance attaclws to a Bill of this nature. You, f\ir, know from your long acquaintance with this State of the very urgent need that exists for long-term credits to producers at cheap rates of interest for this imp01·tant work not only in the pastoral areas, but also in farm­ing- districts for stnmping, grubbing and other improvements to increase the crop acreage of the Stnte. There is, indeed, an enormous flelr1 wherein to work. Here lies an oppor­tnnitv to do something big and really states­manlike to expedite the development of our State.

274 Rural Development, &c .• [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill.

I have quoted the figures I am about to quote ;before, but they bear repetition. 'l'here is something radically wrong with the adminis­tration in this State when a State like Vic­toria >Yith a limited area of 88,000 square miles can nm 17,500,000 sheep and 2,000,000 cattle, whereas Queensland, with its area of 670,000 square miles has only 22,000,000 sheep ancl 6,000,000 cattle.

JI'Ir. Jesson: What is the area of the sheep country within Queensland~

1\Ir. lUAH.ER: I claim that pretty well the whole of Queensland is suitable for sheep raising in some form. East of the Main Dividing Range types of sheep can be run suitable for wet country and for the grasses and crops that th•riYe on the coastal plains. Sheep arc already depasturcd over the \Yhole of the area extending from the southern bordcr to the Gulf of Carpentaria. I know of a man who went into the Gulf from the St. Geor"e district and established a sheep statign there. III.oreover, whilst I admit that mueh of our country is not of the same carry­ing capacity as other ar~as of the State, there is within the recogmsed sheep belt of Queensland u tremendous~ area of country that is absolutely unimproved. Anybody who knows Qucmisland at~ all recognises that.

Instead of a grazing lessee's having a pastoral h0lding in its present unimproved condition, carrying one beast to 35 or 40_ acres, it woul_d be a O'Ood thing for the State If he had cred1t that ~nabled him to improve his property by ringbnrking and providing sufficient 'mter to carry one beast to 6 or 7 acres. VVhat a difference in the cattle Population of the State that would make! "Moreover, there is a large amount of country to-clay even within the safe rainfall belt that is only sufficiently impToved to carry one sheep to 7 or 8 acres. By improving that country to its fullest capa­city, it could carry ono sheep to 2 acres or pnhaps to 1 acre. There is great scope for work in this dhection, and it must appeal to the intelligence of hon. members opposite that all that is needed is money to enable the men already in occupation of. the land to inCl:ease its canying capacity or 1ts crop procluctwn.

"lnd then there is the YYlwat industry. Last year Yvheat realised 4s. 3d. a bushe_l, which ~s u payable price, aml although the ~nc1ustry 1s under a cloud at the moment owmg to the wry severe dedine in the value of grain--at the moment it is round about 2s. Sd. a bushel-and the prospects are not good because of good wheat crops in most of the wheat-growing· countries of the YYorld, >Ye can­not remain idle and not extend our acreage. After all, it is an up-and-down business, and next year may prove to be one of plenty and increased prices. vV c must go ahead on the assumption that there is a \YOrld demand for grain and though this is a bad yrar there may be good years ahead. The world cannot stand still because of fluctuating prices, and nobody can be satisfied with the condition of things in the YYheat industry of Queensland, in which we clo not grow enough to meet our own requirements and in most years have to impOTt wheat from other States.

I<'rom the latest available statisHes the com· pnrison is-

New South \Vales South Australia .. Western Australia Victoria Queensland

Acres under wheat,

1935-36. 3,776,000 2,989,000 2,500,000 2,333,000

283,000

The area from Emerald, in the Central dis­trict, to Goondiwindi, on the New South ·wales border, und from Toowoomba westward to Eoma, is what may be regarded as the Yvhea t belt of Queensl:md, and there is room for a greut expansion there. 'l'he men in the stable wheat-growing districts should be encouraged to improYe tho carrying capacity of the land by stumping and grubbing, and in those districts abounding in rabbits by the erection of rabbit-proof fences. Wheat-grow­ing can be carried on very profitably with ~heep grazing. That is an excellent combina­tion, and one that has put many of the wheat farmers of New South \Vales, Victoria, and Sou1h Australia on their feet. There is no n·ason >Yhy we should not encourage our wheat farnwTs to expand in that direction. EYen iu draughty conditions, wllen there is no grain, there is ahYays green fodder upon which to depastme the sheep. It helps to top off lambs and makes the countTy in general prosperous.

~Ir. 1Valsh: vVho is stopping them from doing iH

Mr. ~IAHER: TherE\ is a steady expan­sion in some districts. In the D alby district during recent times there has been a great increase in wheat farming, but in many dis­tricts the main difficulty is the cost of stump­ing nml grubbing brigalow country. It costs anything from £::3 to £4 J Os. an acre to make the improvement necessary for Y<heat farming. In order to gro>Y a 300-acre crop a man has to find £1,200 or £1,300 from somewhere. :\[any of those men who have already had to undertake big commitments in ringharking, fencing, and the proyision of water, as well as having to maintain their families and to fight against drought conditions from time to time, obYiously would bo up to the limit of their overdmfts with the tmding banks. Here a scheme of rural development would be ideal. Money through the Bureau of Rural Development, or through the Department of Public Lands under the present system, for a long period, sny 25 years, at a cheap rate of interest, would enable them to do this stump­ing and grubbing. I suggest that the interest rate be 3 per cent., even though the State pays more for the money. This would be a revolving fund, lent out to the farmer or grazier, used by him, and returning to the Treasury in half-yearly interest and redemp­tion payments. As the money comes back it can be let out again, ancl so go round and round, and by that means be a very useful fund, not only creating employment but also improYing the country and m1abling an expan­Pion of cropping and stock-carrying to be made, so that in due course new wealth would rr'sult to the State.

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Go-ordination of Powers Bill. 275

After all, it is new >Yealth that we want. :\fore and more wheat grown on the Darling Downs and some of the middle western areas olwiously would mean creating an enormous amount of employment in tillage and harvest­ing, the transport and stacking of the grain. All these things make for greater employ­ment for railway employees, wharf labourers, and millers. If ~we became a wheat-exporting State, eYen to a limited extent, to the extent of the exportable surplus new wealth would be coming into the State.

The sugar industry is one great example of this. It is probable that that industry has rearheu saturation point so far as production i3 concerned, but the surplus that goes over­seas creates credits for us in London, helps to ease our financial clifliculties in Great Britain, an cl is the means of giving cmp loyment to a great body of labour throughout the State. In the aggregate the sngar industry is an enormous asset to Queensland, and if we had our wheat imlustry develope(1 on similar lines -especially if, as seems probable, there is a payable home-consumption price for it, then to the extent of the exportable surplus new m'alth will be coming to the State, and employment will be given to many unskilled labourers in the wheat-fields. We have the country, we haYe the rainfall, we have the :farmers, am1 all that is needed is enough credit to enable them to carry out the improve­ments needeil to get these desirable results.

Many men have said to me. "I should be willing to pull out the stumps, burn off this country, and put it under the plough i:f I had the money to do the job, but I am up to my :imit at the bank or pretty close to it, and I cannot get the requisite amount of capital to do that job; therefore, I am at a kind of dead-end." Here we arc asking the State to allocate, out of its available loan funds, more than a miserable £30,000 a year for work of this kind. Look at the millions of money that this Government have spent during the past six years in erecting excellent public buildings throughout this State. Those build­ings may have been necessary, but, after all, the millions of pounds that have gone into them have gone for all time. \V e have the .assets in the form of the buildings, :for what they are worth, but they are deteriorating assets. We are getting no interest return at all from those buildings.

I will give hon. members an example o:f good spending. Take the six great barrages erected on the river Nile by British engineers and British capital, at a cost of £12,000,000. They enable 14,000,000 Egyptian people to liYe and prosper.

'l'he Premier: Is that the Assuan Dam?

iUr. MAHER: The whole of the Assuan Dam and all the barrages.

'l'he Premier: It cost a great deal more than that.

lUr. 111AHER: The barrages, then, not the <lam itsel:f. They were erected in this eentury.

Tile Premier: It cost a great deal more than that.

Mr. JUAHER: Those figures are correct. I looked them up last night.

Tlte Premier: As a matter of fact, I got the whole of the information from the consulting engineer to the Egyptian Govern­ment.

1\Ir. 1UAHJ:R: I should be glad if the Premier would give his version of the matter, because it is a very fine work-~and was done by British capital, British energy, and British engineers.

The l'remier: India, Egypt, and Siam are outstanding examples of the value of irrigation,

J:Ur. JlLUIER: Quite so. Fourteen million people earn their daily bread because of the irrigation that is possible from these great barrages on the Nile. The figures I have indicate that they cost £12,000,000. That is wise spending that enables a much larger population than we have in c\ustmlia to live and to earn th-eir clail v bread. In the last six years the present 'Government have had from the Unemployment Relie:f Fund and loan funds, £3ii,OOO,OOO, anrl o:f that colossal sum can they point to any worthy undertaking, any substantial asset that the State pos­sesses?

1\Ir. Jesson: Dozens of them.

J.Ur. 1\LUIER: I have looked around. There may be one or two. I do not know what the eventual worth o:f the Stanley River Dam will be-I am prepared to except that­and there may be a number of minor under­takings of considerable value, but I look at things more broad.ly. If I had £35,000,000 of money at my d1sposal to-morrow I should ask, ''How can I use that £35,0!JO,OOO to con:fer the greatest measure of benefit on the people of this countryg" That is the out­look I have. I would not fritter it away on little jobs here and there, but would look round :for something bigger that would confer the widest possible benefit on the people of this country.

The Premier: You are creating an entirely wrong impression and an unfair one if you giYe it as your belief that the irriga­tion works of Egypt were done for £12,000,000. The channels cost more than that.

1\[r. MAHER: I am not sufficiently con­versant with the whole Egyptian irrigation scheme to say that the Assuan Dam and all the projects on the Nile were done at a cost of £12,000,000, but I do say that the figmes I have giYen are correct on the point that six banages, whieh are a very vital factor in the storage o:f water on the Nile, were con­structed during the present century at a cost of £12,000,000.

The Premier: I will give you the name of an engineering firm that has just com­pleted a contract for over £12,000,000 for the Egyptian Government-one corutract alone.

1\fr. JliAHER: Was it on the Nile, in connection with the irrigation schenle F

The Premier: In connection with the Egyptian irrigation scheme.

276 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powas Bill.

lUr. 1\'IAHER: That is probably a new scheme outside the ambit of what I am refer­ring to. Those six barrages have different names; I do not remember them now.

The Premier: Do you not see my point­how wrong it would be to allow the impres­sion to go abroad that a huge irrigation scheme similar to that of Egypt could be done in Queensland for £12,000,000~

lUr. lUAHER: I do not wish to do that. I am speaking of the six big barrages that are a vital factor in the control of the river Nile and the provision of water for extend­ing the irrigation areas in Egypt.

· Tll•e Premier: Wbat do you mean by a banage~ Anything that backs up water, you mean~

1\'Ir. 1\'IAHER: Yes; in other words, a weir. 'rhe Kile is a big river, the works are not easy of accomplishment, but much ha,s been done there. I am not sufficiently con­versant ·with all the Nile projects to say that everything has been done at a cost of £12,000,000. I should not like to say that at all, and I do not say it.

'l'he Premier: The greatest deyelopment in irrigation in the last 20 years has been canied out in India.

JUr. MAHER: There can be no doubt about the soundness of the scheme because, as was pointed out in the annual report of the Land Administration Board for 1937-

,' One of the merits of the scheme is that the loan moneys are 1iot paid to the landholders but are distributed direct to the workers.''

That is a very important point. The money made available for the purposes of this Bill will be largely devoted to the payment of wages, to a greater extent than moneys made available in other directions, much of which would consist of payments for overhead costs and material. For instance, I suppose the greater part of the cost of the Story Bridge will he for material and transport. The steel must be bought in Newcastle and brought to Brisbane and thus a comparatively small amount is available for wages.

The Secretary for Labour and Industry: 1 think that you are exaggerating when you say more than half the cost.

Ji'Ir. JUAHER: I cannot fix the precise proportion, nor did I say that it would represent half the cost. I believe that the greatest proportion of the cost would be in material and overhead costs, whereas in rural development schemes wages would represent neaTly the whole of the expenditure. In addi­tion, much unskilled labour could be used on rmal development schemes. ~ aturally, skilled men vvould be required for ringbarking and tank-sinking, but the general type of bush worker could be used to carry out much of the work. Therefore, the greater part of the money would be available on a svage basis, and thereby give the greatest possible benefit to the unemployed, who are a pTohlem to the Government.

:E'urther, money lent for the purpose of development of primary indHstries is a revolving fund and can be used over and over again. Again, increased development and increased wealth production open up new avenues of permanent employment. I have mentioned three important factors associated ·with the rural dcvclop:ment schen1e.

'l'he Secretary for Labour and Industry: Under our rural development schemes thou­sands of men were employec1 in ringbarking and in canying out general improvements.

)Jr. 1\'[AHER: I fail to see that. Last year the Government provided only £30,000 for the purpose and part of the amount was required for the purchase of wire netting so that J do not see how thousands could have been employed on this work. When the present Government were returned to power they altered the conditions of the scheme of the 1\foore Government so drastically that it was brought to a standstill and the're it has really remained ev~r since. T'he G?venunent have made very httle money avu1lable for rino·barking suckering, providing water on individual holdings, fencing, stumping, or grubbing. Those are the things to which I refer.

'l'he Secretary for Labour and Imlustry: You are v.-rong. We have employed hundreds and thousands of men on this work.

JUr. MAHER: No, no, no! The hon. gentleman is vnong. He is using extravagant terms when he says that thousands have been empolyed on these schemes. How many thousands of men could be employed with an expenditure of £30,000 for a year~ Obviously the hon. gentleman is quite wrong. The rural development schemes to whic~1 .I. have referred would provide wondeTful fac1htles that would be of advantage to the country.

I was· proceeding to quote from the report of the Land Administration Board when I was dra.vnl off the thread of my argument. The report continues-

' 'The scheme has the support of the banks, the wool fiTms, and other financial institutions.

''A very large number of the advances made have been backed by the banks, who have conceded priority to the Crown mort­gage.

''Already 407 advances have been repaid in full. Interest payments to date are quite satisfactory.

' 'In administering these loan funds this department acts for the Secretary for Labour and Industry, whose department provides the money. This arrangement makes for efficiency and economy, as this department not only has readily available in its files a large amount of information which must be considered when dealing with applications for loans, but it has a >Yell-organised and proficient country staff with a practical knowledge of holdings pro­posed to be developed. If the information available in the head office file of any hold­ing is not sufficient, any necessary repurts can readily be obtained. The workers

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Co-ordination of Powers .Bill. 277

engaged are paid by our land agents direct on certificates given by the borrowers, the accounts being kept and vouchers checked and certified in head office. Administration costs arc by this means reduced to a mini­mum, and, in addition, there has been complete accord between the two depart­ments.

''The advantage which has accr~1ed to the State by the operation of the several rural development funds can hardly be calcu­lated. Not only have the borrowers profited by being able to bring their land into pro­duction earlier than would otherwise have been possible, but unemployed bush workers have been provided with congenial employ­ment at award rates of pay. The expendi­ture of their wages has kept in employment numerous town WDTkcrs, while the handling of the produce of the developed land has given work to many more hands, and has been the chief factor in the present prosperity of the country towns.''

That is the considered opinion of the Land Administration Board. What greater recom­mendation could Parliament possibly have? There is the voice of experienced departmental officers who know the value of this important developmental work.

Do the Government intend to provide enough money to make this scheme worth while~ After all, we have seen as I said in the early stages of my r8marks, the Bureau of Imlustry Aet of 1932 making provision for a Rural Developmental Committee, but what advantages have accrued to the pro­ducers from its acth-ities~ It may have made a report or two, but it appears to be a dead letter. There is nothing vital about it. Cer­tainly the amount of money available for rural developmental work has become less during each year of the present Government's term. As I said, only £482,000 all told has been provided for that specific purpose out of £18,000,000 loan moneys whirh have been available during the present Government's term.

Therefore, based on performances, I am justified in asking: Are the Gm·ernment in earnest or is this part of the Govenunent 's propaganda to impress the people of this State~ ·what we want is action. The man of action does not talk about what he is going to do. He pulls off his coat and does the job, and after he completes it others talk about it, as there is a living monument to his activity.

The Treasurer: May I refer you to your policy speech~

lUr. lUAHER: That is all right. We must put a policy before the people in order to tell them what we intend to do, but had I been entrusted with the government of the State, no Bill would have been brought down to authorise the Government to engage on rural developmental work. I should haYe utilised all the present facilities of the Govern­ment departments. All those facilities are open to the Government. All this Bill pro­poses to do is to appoint a Bureau of Rural Development, which will receive applications

and make recommendations as to advances for rural development, while the officers of the Department of Public Lands will handle the project in precisely the same way as they have been doing. The only thing that has limited the activities of those officers has been a lack of money. 'rhey are not answer­able for that fact; the fault lies with the Treasurer and his supporters on the Govern­ment benches. Money is the essential thing. This Bill is but propaganda for the consump­tion of those who are not able to discriminate in political matters.

I must confess that whilst I sympathise with a Bill of this nature it does not cause me to feel any enthusiasm, because I recall the past performances of the Government. If there is a change -of heart and the Govern­ment intend, either through the Treasury or through giving the corporation power to raise larger sums of money and specifically ear­mark them for rural development, then I will support this Bill. In any case I do support it, hoping it will do some go-od. If I could be sure of these things I could be most enthu­siastic over a Bill of this kind, but when we know that the Government have all the facili­ties for rural development in the Department of Public Lands, and when we also know that they took special powers under the Bureau of Industry Act of 1932, and in six years of buoyant revenues, during which they had a great inflmy of loan funds and revenues from the unemployment relief tax, averaging £2,500,000 per annum, and yet .failed to do anything, I find it difficult to shout as loudly as I should like to do.

I should like to become enthusiastic with the Government over this Bill because it incorporates in principle everything T stand for. The only thing lacking is the money. Do the Government intend to provide enough money to enable this work to be carried out. In my view Queensland could to-day or pro· gressively over the next ten years do with the expenditure of £20,000,000 to £25,000,000 for rural development work, that is to say, for ringba.rking, the provision of water, .fencing, dog-netting, scrub-falling, suckering, and all such things as would add to the wealth pro­duction of the State. All those things are of major importance, and no amount of money that comes within the control of the Treasurer is too great to expend each year on long-term credits at cheap rates of interest towards the arhievement of that object.

Such an expenditure of money would help the producer, the farmer, and the grazier to improve his conntry and make it more pro­ductive. It would open up avenues of employ­ment to our citizens who are so badly in need of it. If I could, like Moses of old journeying into a promised land, lead an expedition of hon. members into our middle-wost from Gooncliwindi into Central Queensland am1 give them a first-hand knowledge of the fertility of the land there, the nature of the rainfall, the virgin country still awaiting the axe, and the need for a greater increase in the numbers of sheep and cattle depasturing in that area, I should open the eyes of hon. members. 'l'herein lies our true salvation.

278 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill.

A great State with immense possibilities is being neglected. 'l'here is no use in crying out that more people should go on the land. We have been told by reports from the Depart­ment of Public Lands that all the ::rvailable land in the State is in occupation-all the economically usefnl land is in occupation. The next thing is to help the people who are in occupation of that land, to impTOve their country and make it more productive, thereby giving more employment to our people. The possibilities of such a scheme are easy to visualise. If people in the pastora1 area carry more sheep, more shearers, drovers, bush workers, and station hands will 'be placed in employment. If we grow more crops, more people will be employed as farm workers, more engaged on the railways, and _more driving motor trucks and more money w1ll be coming into the business houses of the State.

If Queensland were a State like Victoria or New South Wales, thcn·e would not he the same scope for rural deYelopment. It does not mean as much to those States as it do~s to Queensland. To Queensland, with its great nndeYeloped areas, it is everything. The seconclarv industries in this E:tate are stag­nating. "To anybody who caTes to make. a studious Teview of the taxation and fimmcml position of this State it seems that a long time will elapse before ITe can rectify the damage that has been done in the past and make this State an attractiYc field for secondarv invest· ment, hut there is nothing to stop 'us from expanding our wealth production from pTi­maTy sources. In the fiye years from 1932-33 to 1936-37 we oihtained £188,777,000 from primary sources and £73,961,000 from second­ary sources. Of the total wealth produced during the five years 72 per cent. came from

. primaq production and only 28 peT cent. from secondaTy productio11.

We thus see the value of our primary industries to the State. Many of the indus­tries that are classifier! as secondary are really accessories to primary industries-i.e., sugar mills, cotton ginneries, meatworks, or butter cheese, and bacon factories. Of course; such factories are secondary in their nature but they are definitely anchored to the primary industries and are located close to the primary production on which they are based. Therefore, if one adds the wealth won by these secondary industries-acces­sories to primary industries-it will be found that our primary wealth production is increased to approximately 82 per cent. of the whole. As conditions are to-day, we must turn to our primary products to increase our wealth, create employment, and help in improving the comn1e:rcial activities of the State.

It is a matter of major importance. The first principle of good government is that the >Yelfare of all detyends upon the main­tenance awl 1•xpansion of industry so that the total .'1 1 emge wealth will be at a high level. As the main source of wealth, the primary industries should receive . first con­sideTation and, in my view, if this Bill is honestly conceived and the Government intend henceforth to recognise the im poTtance of

rural deYeloprnent, they will see that they are furnished with ample funds to enable Queens­land's development to be accelerat eel. K o more important Bill can come be1:ore this Parlianl'ent during this or an:· other session in the present stage of cleYelopmcnt in Queens­land. As the hon. member for N anango reminds me, it is the solution of all our major problems of unemployment and the general stagnation tbnt lwngs like a pall o1·er our secondm·y industries. They need reYitalising.

I hope the Government are earnest and sin­cere in this project, and in its logical corollDTy, and that they really intend to pro­vidE' laTge sums of money to assist our farmers and graziers to improYe their holdings, thereby appreciating the assets of the State and. increasing wealth so that our unemploy­ment problem may be tackled in the only practical way.

I observe that the Prem'ier has just returned to the Chamber. It gives me the opportunity to refer to a matter to ·which I wish to direct his attention. In last night's issue of the Brisbane ''Telegraph'' the hon. gentleman quoted from the September circular of the Bank of New South Wales in justification of his claim for increased borrowing. As in quoting paragraph 541 of the report of the Royal Commission on Banking, the Pre­mier quoted only the part that suited his argument. The Bank of New South Wales circular does not support increased expendi­ture of loan money by the State Governments. The. essential part of the ciTcnlar is con­tained in the following statement:-

''Public works are a substantial item of Government expenditure, and if the present tendency towards some recession becomes more severe, this item should increase. But defence projects are to a large extent a substitute for other public works .... ''

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I am afraid the hon. gentleman is getting outside the scope of this Bill.

The Premier: He is getting outside the scope of my statement.

:ilir. :iliAHER.: It all depends on what are called public works, but I recognise that it is a Rural Development Bill that we are considering, and in deference to your ruling, Mr. Speaker, I shall resene my comment for another occasion.

I think I have coYered all the ground. The Opposition, as a whole, are behind the Govern­nYent in so far as the principles and the pur­·poscs of this Bill are concerned, and we give our very cordial support to it. I hope there is a definite change of heart on the part of the Govemment, and that the Premier in the influential position that he oecupies will see to it that sufficient money is allocated to make this Bill effectiYe, and that it will not be one of those statutes that remain in the archives of the State and do not achieve their pmpose.

It is rather interesting to note that during the election campaign virtually the whole of the propaganda of the Government was

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTElllBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill. 279

directed to deriding what our opponents called '' Maher 's Mythical Millions.''

The Premier: Where were you going to get them?

}fr. JIAHER: I am going to ask the hon. gentleman where he proposes to get the money to :finance the State Development and Public Works Organisation Bill and the Rural Development Transfer and Co-ordination of Powers Bill?

Tl1•e Pl·emier: I told you.

Jir. JIAHER: What is the good of these Bills if the hon. gentleman says he is not able to get the money~

The Premier: I have not said anything of the kind. I asked you where you were going to get yours. You increased at the rate of £1,000,000 a day.

:!1Ir. :!1IAHER: That was the hon. gentle­man's exaggeration. It was rather amusing to me to hear Senator Gordon Brown speak­ing during the election campaign. He used all the thunder of the Premier to show how '' YI:aher 's Mythical Millions'' could not be got, and that Maher could not :find the money to carry out the big projects that he men­tioned. He then went on to other topics and at the tail end of his address he indicated all the great works that Labour intended to do. One chap in the audience said, "But \Yhere will you get the money~" That was a poser. The Senator stopped for a while and then he said, ''Labour can always get the money.'' There were no ''Mythical Millions'' about what I proposed to do.

The point is that whatever money comes into the hands of the Government, \Yhether it is a large or a limited sum, a substantial part of it should be allocated to the Bureau of Hural Development so that it can carry out the Yery important duties that will devolve upon it in helping our farmers and graziers to impro\·e their holdings, thereby making for the development and the expansion of employment that are so necessary if Queens­land is to progress, as well as giye an oppor­tunity to those Jleople who are settled on the land of increasing their carrying capacity and their cropping operations.

ll'Ir. JESSO~ (Kennedy) (11.43 a.m.): We ha Ye just been listening to an extra­ordinar:v speech from the Leader of the Opposition. It was a speech full of misstate­ments, although I do not say that he made them intentionally. I think he did the best he could under the circumstances.

Again his :figures arc wrong in many respeets. He accuses the Government of :filch­ing the policy of the Country Party from them in introducing this Bill. The Country Party has never had a policy, as I have stated JHeviously, whereas the Labour Party has cal'l'ied on a policy of agriculture for years, as may be seen from a perusal of the booklet entitled, ''Constitution and General Rules of the Australian Labour Party.'' That booklet was compiled by the old stalwarts of the party, and we have k0pt this agricultural objective in view. The time has arrived for putting it

into effect. I make no apolog:v for the plat­form of the party and in a moment I shall read to the House the objective of the party so far as agriculture is concerned. For the Leader of the Opposition to say that this is a change of front on our part, that we have only now thought of it since it has been sug­gested by them, is ridiculous to anyone who has ever read it.

There are 11 points dealing with agricul­ture in this book, and in case some hon. members opposite may try to belittle my statement by saying that the book has just been revised during the recent year or so, I may say that the constitution and general rules were amended in 1935, but not the plat­form regarding agriculture. The La.bour Party's policy is this-

'' Agricultnre-

1. Extension of Advances to Settlers Act. Further assistance to settlers for purchases of livestock, for water con­servation, silos, machinery, and imple­ments.

2. A rural credit scheme to finance groups of farmers for co-operatiYe enter­prises connected with prol1uction, distri­bution or marketing of farm products.

3. Organisation of primary producers for their protection against middlemen, private financial institutions, or other exploiting agencies.

4. State or co-operatiYe cold stores, flour mills, and granaries, sugar mills, and re:fineries, agricultural implement \l·orks, fertilizer and arsenic manufac­turies, cotton ginni11g, fruit preserving, bacon curing, butter and cheese manu­facture, and generally for the processing, retail, and wholesale mad<eting and dis­tribution of produce.''

:ifr. Ednards: And butcher shops and fisheries.

l!Ir. JESSON: In reply to those interjec­tions I might say that the State butcher shops and :fisheries served their purpose. They ecrtainly stopped the exploitation of the worker and enabled him to get his chop, instead of having to be content with bread and dripping. They did their job and did it well. The policy continues-

'' 5. Comprehensive scheme of fodder con­servation.

'' 6. DaiTy herd improvement. '' 7. Assistance to farmers for co-opera­

tive buying of farm implements, machinery, fertilizers, s<:lcds, sacks, &c.

'' 8. W a.ter conserva tio11 and iniga tion. "9. Analysis of soils for farmers at

nominal cost.

'' 10. Additional agricultural demonstra­tion farms, especially in proposed irriga­tion areas.

'' 11. Govemn1ent-prepared poisons for the destruction of prickly-pear and other Yegetable pests, and for dip fluids.''

That is a complete reply to the statements of the Opposition that have appeared in the

:280 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill.

Press from time to time to the effect that this party has filched or stolen their policy from them. I have said often in this House that they never had a policy at all. Their first policy in 1929 was the £2,000,000 for 10,000 jobs, and the people woke up to that. Their second one was motherhood endowment and the mothers woke 1111 to that. Next they stole the planks and objectives out of the Labour Party's platform, and now they tell us that 110 have stolen their policy. The people woke up to them and know that they have never had anything constructive.

lUr. Edwards: How long has that been in your book~

:\ir. JESSON: Years. It is in one I bought in 1914.

1Ur. l~dwanls: Why did you not put it into effect?

lUr. JESSON: In reply to that, let me say that it took the Labour Party many years to get the 44-hour \Yeek, but we got that at last, aml every other reform has to begin from a beginning, and now the conditions in tl1is country, and particularly in Queens­laud, are miles in advance of any other civilised country in the world. Some lwn. members opposite have benefited by the legis­lation that this party has brought into effect fm the betterment of the people.

To come back to the Bill, in my opinion, as in the opinion of most persons who count in the community, according to the paragraph that the I,eader of the Opposition read from the Press, this is a move in the right clirec­tion. We have, in everything, to crawl before we can walk, and we are now at a point where closer co-operation is to be establishrd between the departments. Under the old system, if a settler wanted wirE' netting or barbed wire or something of that kind the Denartment of Public L-ands, if he got it fro;n there, he had to send along to the Agri­cultural Bank to see what he owecl them and then send away to the Department of Labour and Inclustq to see how mud1 assistance he had been getting there, either for re_lief rations or else for ringbarking and suckermg.

When the grant or loan >vas about to be made it might be discovered that it was not required. That has happened frequently, and it is only one evil that will be rectified. It is important that this overlapping should be eliminated, so that decisions may be made with promptitude, and the Government may thus be able to care for the fa-rmer even much better than before.

Hon. members opposite say that there is a nigger in the wood pile. They ·want to know where are we going to get the' money. The monev will be raised, as it has been in the past," and there will be no added cost. There should not be any squeal about that. The Government intend to go even further >Yith '\Vater conservation schemes, the improvement of stock routes, forestry operations, and in other directions that will create employment.

The Opposition's fears about the measure are bnseless. I give them this credit, that ever since I have been in the House I have

not heard them accuse the Agricultural Hank of having clone anything >vrong. Of course, I have heard them complain at times that clients have had to wait for decisions con­cerning advances. One hon. member oppo­site, perhaps in a weak moment-I do not think he told the truth-said that one of his constituents had to wait 14 months, but my re-ply is that he must have been a very bad risk if his affairs had to be under the searchlight for 14 months. However, he got the advance. That is the only complaint that I have heard from hon. members opposite nbont the Agricultural Bank. I have very rarely heard them complain that clients \Yere unable to obtain help in the purchase of wire netting and similar material, and I have ve-ry rarely heard them complain about the help given to farmers by the Department of Labour :mcl Industry.

'rhe only complaint in the latter connection was that the farmers had to pay back the amount in some instances. In many the amount was wiped off. I think the Govern­mc•nt have every right to ask for the repay­ment of money advanced to help a man during a bad period because we all know that land is proclucti ve, and with two or three good seasons, a man can be on his feet again. Therefore, if a man asks the Government for an advance in bad times to help him to get Oil his feet, every right-thinking person will say that he should repay the amount when times are good.

The Leader of the Opposition said that he was ashamed to think that Queensland with its huge area carried such a small number of sheep, but I am smprised that such a state­ment should be made by a Country Party representative. He does not know what he is talking about. Persons competent to express an opinion have said that it is remarkable that fine wool can be produced in Queensland north of the Tropic of Capri­com, and indeed that it is remarkable that fine wool can be grown in the tropics. In New South Wales, a country eminently suit­able for the production of fine wool, in fact better suited than any other country in the world, there is a greater area under sheep than in Queensland, despite our huge area, and having regard to grass seed, worms, and other pests and parasites that attack the industry in Queensland it is remarkable that Queensland can produce wool of high quality in the tropics.

It has been suggested that good wool can be grown in the Gulf country. There may be pockets and patches of country that will grow anything and everything, but no-one is justified in dealing with the subject in general terms and in such a >my as to give investors the idea that Queensland does not offer splendid opportunities. Such statements are wrong and are to the detriment of the well­being of the State. As I said before, compe­tent authorities have said that it is remark­able that wool of high quality should be produced in the tropics of Queensland. That is a fact that the Leader of the Opposition did not mention.

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill. 281

The hon. gentleman went on to refer to the millions of pounds that had been spent on inigration projects on the river Nile. He forgets that comparisons are odious. He for,gets, too, that in this country some of these inigation schemes >Yould cost not £12,000,000 but £160,000,000. Labour in Egypt can be obtained much more cheaply than in Queensland.

Tile Premier: Apart from that. his figures arc absurd.

JUr. JESSON: I agree with the Premier. I took part in the discussion on irrigation during the last session of Parliament and remember reading in an authority in the Parliamentary Library that a small irrigation project in Egypt cost £54,000,000.

'l'he Premier: As a matter of fact, the adviser on finance to the Egyptian Govern­ment was in Qlleensland for a couple of months quite recently.

lir. JESSON: The factors I have men­tioned have an adverse effect on irrigation. The Leader of the Opposition, as we all know, must jnstify not only his position in this Chamber, but also the salary appertaining to it. He must say something, but if his speech \Yere short and to the point, haseil on facts and containing constructive t'riticism. _,.e should probably ovel"look many of his faults. Every time either he or one of his colleagues get up in this House, he makes derogatory references of the Government not based on facts.

lUr. EHWARDS (Nanango) (11.57 a.m.): This is an important Bill. As my leader pointed out, it should be one of the most impOTtant measures that have been introduced into this Chamber. Certain powers htwe been eonfened on the Government from time to time and these could be used in a way that 'YOUld do much for the advancement, not only of our agricultural, but our pastoral indus­tries also, but the Government seem to go to sleep on legislation of that sort. I am one Yvho hopes they will not do so on this occasion. It does not matter to me YYhether legislation for the advancement of rural interest's is put into effect by a Labour Goy·ernment or any other Government. All Governments having the welfare of this State at heart should give close attention to our primary industries.

As I said, this Bill can he regarded as one of the greatest mcasmes passed through this Assembly. The only solution of our unem­ployment pTOblem lies in developing our rural resources, and if this Bill is put into effect properly it will create continuous employment and add considerably to our wealth, two fac­tors that are of vital importance to us just now. That is YYhy I regard the Bill as of so much importance.

If we reflect on the enormous .losses that take place from time to time in our pastoral industry we should be eager to do something to conserve that immense asset. We look upon sheep growing, lamb raising, anrl wool production as amongst our most valuable occupations, the remarks of the hon. member for Kennedy notwithstanding. As a matter of fact, Queensland has a greater area suited

for grazing than New South IV ales, and one or our great disadvantages has been the huge drought losses caused by lack of artificial v:ater.

No one knows the position better than the hon. melllber for Cairns. I had the pleasure and privilege of travelling some thousands of miles with that hon. member, and I was convinced that a great number of the drought­stricken sheep we saw could haYe been saved if water had been conserved. I do not say that the Government are to blame all the time, but they could have tackled this pro­blem years ago.

.lUr. O'Keefe: And if railways had been available.

JUr. EIHVARDS: To some extent. Trans­port would be an important factor. Some of our pastoral holdings have not carried out water improYements as they should have. Some have relied far too much on seasons and natl!ral supplies. When drought has come, sheep \Yent to ,,·hercver there was an artesian bore or drain; of course, some died on their way to "at er nncl others died on returning to feed. :'\Ia ny pastoral holdings have been faced with the position that there were no water facilities on stock routes and no trans­port, as the hon. member for Cairns men­tioned, to move stock in c1rought. Losses haYC been huge. E\·er since 1902 we have been repeatedly building up our flocks, losing them, and building np again. The loss to the State is not only in the stock, but in pro­rluction, employment, and wealth of the State. 'l'hcse are enormous. A peak number of 21,700,000 sheep iYas reached in 1892, and that nnmlwr decreased to 7,200,000 in Hl02. For the last 20 yenrs the number has fluctuated round the 20.000,000 mark. It was reduced from 2:1,000,000 to Hi,OOO.OOO by the drought in 1915, was built up agnin to 20,700,000 in Hl2", and rec1ured hy the 1926 drought to under 17,000,000. By the end of 1929 it was over 20,000,000 again. The drought in 1935 caused a decrease to the extent of 2,500,000, and now we are gradually recovering. The cstimatec1 number of sheep in Qneensland at 31 December, 1937, was 22,200,000. Those figures give hon. members some idea of the problem- and the conrse the Government should follow. They should give close atten­tion to the gradnal building up of our flocks.

It is trne tlmt in some of the Southern States fioeks haYc been increased by top-dress­ing of pastures. Many areas in ~outheTn S'tatc11 a few years ago weTe carrymg only a sl1cep to the acre or eYen less, whereas they are carrying nine and 10 to the acre to-day.

::l'Ir. O'Keefe: Our flocks have decreased be<anse the supply of Mitchell grass is diminishing.

.!Ur. EDWARDS: That may he. so. We must guard against the losses that occur con­tinuously in drought periods. That is only business-like. This can be done by irrigation. One might say that up to the present it has been an absolute failure in this State, largely owing, in the first place, to the absence of careful consideration of the type of soil to be watered, the produce to he grown, and the geographical position of markets. The

282 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill.

scheme in the D~wson Valley proved a failure almost from beginning to end and large sums of money haYe been written off. In the past some mistakes have occurred because settlers were burdened with too great a rate of taxa­tion fot· \Yater, ancl other conditions were not suitable. NeYerthele05, we have our experi­ence. Let it guide us for the fnture.

ln Victoria aml the southen1 portion of N cw South Wales irrigation has made thou­samls upon thousands of acres of land produc­tiYc, and in other areas where production was a lrea<lv successful has tended to increase it. I refer, 'as I haYe previously in this House, to the lands along the Munay River and in the Mil<lura area. These are outstanding examples of \Yhat can be clone by inigation in Aus­tralia. Had \re in Queensland realised years ago that the bcst source of wealth was rural production \Ye shonlcl not !lOW be in the thrors of unemployment.

To Pmbark on public works is an right when difficulties in the way of droughts or other calamity beset tlie State, but, Mr. Speaker, I point out that immediately such a \York is rompleted another has to be begun to prm~ide continuous employment for the workmen. EYentually the position of the State becomes worse, as a large amount of the necessary finance is borrowed money and most of the 'vork is non~productive. It is those memhers of the community who are earning that provi<le the revenue of the State, and eventually it cannot pay the interest on the loan nor the people cany the burden of taxa­tion. That is -entirely wrong. Iu the past such tlnngs have occurrerl, and the Govern­mcm to a large extent have been to blame. ~\t the present time the Gowrnmcnt have a 'mnrkrful opportunity bofore them inasmuch as millions of acres 'of hmd that was value­less a few vcars ago because of prickly~pear is now available because of the crarlication of that pest. The Government did 11ot <lo it, but .it has been clone, and settlement is going on m such areas, mnch of the land being capable of snccessful cultiYation.

JUr. Duggan: We have to find markets.

Mr. EDWARDS: That is a lamentable outlook. \Vhen I was a boy attending school, and the Mallee countrv in Victoria was first opened up, the price of wheat, which had to be dragged out of the Mnllee by bullock team~, declined to ls. 1 Od. or 2s. a bnshel.

The farmer, business mnn and everyone else were prepared to make th!Cl statement th~t the hon. member has just made. They sard that that was the end' of wheat growing in Australia, that there was over~production. What has happenedW 'Ne haYe only to look nt statistics to re::tliso what a vahui.blc asset this produet has been to the country. About three years ago, when butter was cbwn to 9rl. and lOd. a pound, I heard a director of a butter factory reading a pnper ut a dinner in which he said that they had gone as far as they could in dairy production, that it was no use bringing into use any further lands. To-day dairying vies with wool-growing as the most prominent of our primarv industries and ·is giving employment to tens "of thousand~ of people.

This brings me to the very important point that most of the small areas of land throughout the State are essentially mixed~ farming lam1s. To~day we are growing a IYide Yariety of crops, many of them new. This, to some extent, makes the position more c1iflicult for the dairyman in that to~day his fodder supply is not as secure as in days gone by. To illustrate what I mean, let me fJnote the great scrub belt in the Burnett district. A few years ago it was used mainly for maize~growing and dairying. After the maize was harYestccl a good deal of excellent feed for dairv stock \vas left. Dairymen improYecl upon 'that by planting oats or other green fodder crops amongst the stalks before the maize was harvested. The result wns that enormous quantities of fodder were available for dairy cattle when the maize was harvested. To~clay such crops as cotton and peanuts are grown Yery largely in that area, and everyone knOI\ s that when the peanut crop is harYested the ground is bare. One may say the same of cotton. That nop produces really no fodder. For those reasons, the dairy farmer is not in smh a s:cure position as he was and' fodder conservation is one of the problems the Goycrnment must consider. There are vast areas of creek fiats that are not suitable for either peanut or cotton-growing and those fiats coulll be usecl for such crops as lucerne, which conlcl be stored and made available to <lairymen in drought. That would help in no smail way in establishing the "ealth of this countrv. It seems a great pity to see so many 'of those large fiats still in the same comii tion a6 they -,wre in 20 or 25 years ago. There must be something wrong, bcr•quse f •l'l11CJ'S >Yho h0lrl land will break it np and till it if they sec any advantage in i1oing so. EYicl9ntly, there is often no achantnge in doing so. If the Government coul-T estahlish some means of stacking lucerne, which after all is the king of all foclc1ers so that it 1voulc1 he availa•ble to clairy f~nners and others with stock in clis~ tress, many of onr difficulties would disappear and much loss in dry spells and drought wonlcl be sa vecl.

Trnnsport facilities also could get Hs out of many of our difficulties. For instance, in my own district, rail freights are almost pro­lJibitiYe. In the Barker's Creek area, where there are tens of thousands of acres of fiat country, farmers are unable to cultivate land because of the cost of transporting prodnce to the market. It costs from 8d. to 9d. a bushel to send maize from the N anango dis­trict by rail to Brisbane. That means 2s. and over a bag, and with the other expenses attached to it, leaves nothing for the farmer. The same thing would render impossible the transport of lucerne hny or chaff to Bris­bane. 'rhere is a missing link of railway there of 14 miles that is causing all this trouble and loss to the State.

I belioYe that in areas like that, if the Government acted immediatelY to bring abont similar conditions to those 'that operate in regard to the lands of the State under heaYy production, the State would be greatly 'bene­fited. Vvhere you see a farmer with good

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill. 283

soil that is not cultivated up to or near its full capacity, you know there is something wrong with the facilities available for get­ting his product to the market at a reason­able cost. It is to such things that the Government should gi\·e close and quick attention. At present we are enjoying rea­sonably good seasons, but let us not for one moment think that they are going to con­tinue for all time. Unfortunately, we are too much inclined to take that for granted, but dry spells and droughts are certain to come again and this is the time when the Government should attempt such projects as have been discussed this morning.

If that is clone we shall have no -trouble in provicling permanent employment for all our able-bodied men ·who are \Yilling to work. I do not think that much will be gained by changing the nanl'e of the Agricultural Bank to the Bnrean of Rural Development, !"Jut a considerably hrger sum could be made avail­able to that department, because I b~lieve that in the past it has been starved. If a greater sum had been made available for distribution the agricultural position of Queensland would be very much better than it is. I do not entirely agree ·with th€ remarks of the Premier in reply to me the other day concerning ~lients of the Agricul­tural Bank who are going to the associatecl banks in great numbers. He said that it was because they had pnssed the t'ioneering stage, but that is not exactly truc. The Agrir,ul­tural Bank, usually, calls upon its clients to repay a sum representing principal and interest, -and that is a considerable amount. In some caseq th£ settler finds it impossible to pay, nnd that is why the bank has had some diflic'lltJ in collecting the money.

I should like to ask the Premier, too, when a farnfeJ: 1s over his pioneering stage. Bear­ing in mind the sheep losses that I have mentioned, the losses due to fall in prices, drought losses, the cost of planting and sow­ing: the heavy cost of machinery and railway fre1ghts, when can we say that a farmer is past the pioneering stage 1 Ho reaches a certain stage of development, something unfor0secn happens, and he is knocked back. 1 say that a farmer is over that uifficulty when he is strong enough financially to be able to store fodder, Yrhen he has an adeCJuntc water supply to meet all contingencies, and generally has his land in a state of production so that he can carry on without falling back on his reserves of stored fodder. TJJCn, and then only shall we be justified in saying that the farmer is over the pioneering stage; and to have the farming community in that con­dition is not only an advantage to the farmer and his family, but is also an admntage to the State.

If more attention had been given to rural development in years gone by we shoul,J not be in our present deplorable position in secondary industry. Too often have the farmers founcl that after fighting hard and spending a lot of money in search of markets we have been unable to maintain a con­tinuous supply of products of first quality. \Vhen we could even have captured the market we have been unable to guarantee continuity

of supplies. That has occurred also in our manufacturing industries. Once that diffi­culty is overcome, and the present crushing burden of taxation is lightened secondary industries will be established.

A great quantity of our raw products, especially hides and cotton, are exported to the Southern States to be nianufactured That is not fair to the State, and steps ought to be taken to alter it. Some will say that secondary industries will arise when our population increases. Population will follow the establishment of industries. It has been argued over and over again that our home market is the best market. I quite agree, but it cannot be denied that at present we give much help to the Southern States in creating both work and wealth.

.For years past thousands of tons of oaten chaff have been brought to Brisbane from the \Vagga district in southern New South Wales to the Brisbane market. It will be argued that Queensland cannot produce a chaff that will compare with the Wagga chaff. I am quite prepared to admit that, to a cer­tain JJOlll"C. We have c<erta.in difficulties con­nected with our climatic conditions to over­com·e, but the greatest clifticul ty is th€ preparation of the chaff for market. At present the~e is as a rule no comparison bet1wen the imported and local articles, and that is where the Go\€rnment could assist the local procluct. Unfortunately, many small farmers growing oaten hay in Queensland mnst engage a big travelling plant to eut their chaff. 'fhcv are finaneially unable to buy their O\Yn. '!;his is at times quite unsuit­able as the hay c·annot be cut under the best com1itions. A<lmittedly, nn article thus cnt cannot compare with the imported o;:te. That is an aspect of this question to wlnch the Government should give attention. It is no use the Government saying that the farmers can ancl should alter the position. There is a cause for every inferiority. \Ve should determine what it is. If we clo so and proper steps are taken to renl"ove it, many of our difficulties will be overcome.

At present insufficient attention is given to the fertilization of our poorer soils, In the Son,thern States the carrying capacity of poor soils has been increase(] in this way, sometimes from a sh-eep to 10 :1 cres to a &heep to the acre, while the production of wheat has been mised from six to nine bushels to the acTe to 30 bushels in the same way. The great plains between Ballara~ and Hamilton in Yietoria are to-day carrymg 10 times the number of sheep that they carried 30 years ago, and this is due to the appli_ca­tion of suitable manures. Some attent10n should be given to the question in Queensland.

It Vl''ll be seen that in quite a number of directions the Government could develop this State along sound lines and thus help. to increase population ani]. wealth production, antl so not only create more work but also make it more con1inuous the year round.

At 12.30 p.m., Mr. GLEDSON (Ipswich), one of the panel

of Temporary Chairmen, relieved .Mr. Speaker in the chair.

281 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill.

~Ir. T. L. WILMAMS (Port Curtis) (12.31 p.m.): As the constituency I have the honour to represent is almost an entirely rural one, I welcome this Bill almost to the extent of hailing it with delight. As one hon. memb"r opposite remarked, no more impor­tant Bill could possibly come before this Chamber.

The Leader of the Opposition need haYe no fear that thcTe will be all talk and no action 1Jy the Govemment. I feel certain that the Government are determined to canv out the proposals in this important measure.

On this question of more assistance to our primary p1;oducers, it may be remembered that two sessions ago I suggested a scheme to provic1e a storage of fodder in good beasons to meet with demands in adverse seasoll!s. I also suggested that a water-conseTvation rnd pasture-improvement scheme should be investi­gated. As I meant those cuggestions then, so I mean them to-clay. The Government are seized of the necessity of going further afield in helping the primary producer to meet his obligations and produce \Yhat we need.

After fL trip that I made in company with two of my colleagues to the Southern States a little over 12 months ago, I wrote a se~ies of articles dealing -,ith what was happenmg there and covering, of course, our observa­tions. One of them referred to the need for water and forlder conservation and for irrigation, which I rcfened to as having a real relationship to national progrrss and prosperity. I said-

' 'National security unclonbteClly lies in population, just as national prosperity and real national progress, more p~nticularly in times of depressed prices, lies in the direc­tion of l)l'Oduction. Mere numbers alone in respect to the former, however, do not necessarily make for national strength, ber:1use of the accepted fact that an excess of unskilled laibourers, for example, with consequent unemployment, would be more a liabilitv than an asset. Real national progress, ·too, can be made only by the establishment of well-balanced primary and seconclary industries, on sound and secure lines, supplying permanent and profitable employment for increasing numbers of rural ancl industrial workers, our two main factors providing the real wealth and the wealth producers respectively of the nation.''

I repeat that I now mean what I wrote then. It may be asked why I am so much con­

cemed about getting additional aid, financial or otherwise, for primary producers.

Quite apart from the fact that I repre­sent an area almost entirely rural, as I said previously, I realise that the very existence of the people, not merely in my electorate but in the State and tlw Commonwealth, depends on what can be done for the primary producers, because this in its train will bring benefit to secondary incl'ustries. I have said before in this House and I now repeat, that cities, large and small, have been built up on a foundation of agricultural development.

A recent review stated-

'' Queensland leads the States of the Commom>"calth in the production of sugar, maize, cotton (only producer), peanuts and pumpkins. The same applies to butter and \YOol, and, of course, far more beef is pro­ducet1 here than in any other State.''

In support of my statement ancl as an illustration of what can be clone, it might 'be interesting to hon. members to hear some figures. For the season ] 937-38 the ynlur of the butter procluced in Queensland was the highest on record, exceeding the predous best by £1,178,000. The figures are--

1937-38 £7,178,976 1934-35 (previous best) £6,100,000

Number of boxes-1937-38 ] 934-35

2,051,136 2,325,402

In 1937-38 there were 27 4,266 boxes less, but the ave1'ag'e price was 140s. a c·wt., com­pared with ] 05s. in ·1934-35. Production was 543,642 boxes greater than in 1936-37. As a matter of fact, in ya]ue of production dairying mnks third of the State's primary industries. As the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock said at the official luncheon of the- Royal National Association of Queens­l::md, it is certainly of considerable economic importance to Queensland and those engaged in that particular industry. He proceeded to give interesting figures showing that butter production could be regarded as third of our primary industries in money value. These figures can be improYed on and those engaged in the dairying industry should \Yelcome a n1cnsnrc ~uch as this.

The question of markets has been raised. \Ye admit that sometimes there is a difficulty in fincling markets for increases in produc­tion. Science has bem brought to the aid of production but so far we have not been able to get from it assistance in bridging the gap between production and' con­sumption.

The Gowrnment are prepared and will come to the aid of those engaged in the beef industry, \Yhich hn,s a value to the State of more than £11,000,000 annually. Few people realise this. In the report of the Queensland Beef Cattle Industry Com­mission in 1928 it was estimated that, based on the average turnover for the period 1924 to 1926, the annual Yaluc of the raw llroduct of the beef cattle industry of the State, together with the increased value due to the process of manufacture for the domestic and export trade, amounted to £9,155,000. Allowing for the added value arising out of the subsidiary proc·esses, such as manufacture of leather, margarine, soaps, gelatine, glue ancl pharmaceutical prepara­tions, and for the improvecl export prices for beef and mutton, lamb and pork since 192S, the value of the industry in Queens­land to-day must exceed £11,000,000.

Another industry in which large numbers of men are employed is sugar growing and I understand that the production of raw

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill. 285

sugar h~1s incre'lsetl from 140,000 tons at the time of federation to approximately <'\09,000 tons last year.

On a recent occasion the Premier said-

.' Primary industries still predominate in our economy, having adued to our national income in 1937-38 no less a sum than £:36,800,000.''

lf we look back over the last seven years, we can see ho"· Queensland's primary and second­ary industries have expanded. J n that period primary production, the Premier also ,tated, increased by 50 per cent. and manufacturing by over 41 per cent. Aid will be given, probably not so mnch to the sugar industry as to the other industries that I lmve men­tioned, b;-· the operations of this Bill.

I am glacl to see that it is proposed also to give a greater measure of assistance to the raising of more and better fat lambs. I was pleased to !war the remarks made by the hon. member for Stanley on the Address in Reply, in connection with an industry that he stm·tcd some ;·ears ago--the raising of fat lambs. I am snre that finnncial aid will be giwn by the Government in every possible direction in order to increase and to improve our production and output of fat lambs.

An artidc I have here says~

"Fat lnmb production in the Stat" is making- steady headwa;·. the quality of the lambs especially improving. 'l'his has been broug-ht about to a large extent by the fat lamb scheme inaugurated some years ago by the ::Ylinister for Agriculture and S'tor·k. Briefly, the scheme had to do with the purchase of high-class rams of British breeds made possible by moneys made available to the Dcpnrtment of Stock by the CommomYealth Bank and the Common­"·ealth Meat Board.

''Farmers with culth·ation--for cultiva­tion in the production of fat lambs is nl" c~ys emphasised by officers of the depart­ment-were given rams of the various British breeds on loan. The wool and progeny, however, become the property of the farmer. Healthy competition and gratifying results have been achieved as the result of this scheme, and nothing but good can come to the farmer individually and the State as a whole.''

I am sure that that help >Yil! continue under this measure and that men who wish to improve their present herds, as well as those who wish to launch out in this industry of fat lamb raising, will be giYen every encour­agement to do so.

I come now to the expansion of the cotton­growing industry. Cotton growers were assisted by the Department of Labour and Industry dming last year to the extent of £15,000, and a return from the department conrerned states that the number of cotton gro>vers increased from 3,197 during the 1936-37 season to 3,689, while enough see cl has been made available to plant 69,671 acres, as compared with 56,511 acres for the previ­ous crop. With a reasonably favourable season, it is hoped that Queensland will soon

be able to supply the requirements of Aus­tralian spinners for the types of cotton grown in Queensland. Any aid outside of that rcnuered year after year by the Department of Labom and Industry will be welcomed and availecl of by those connected with this indus­try.

Em·!ier during this session I asked the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock a ques­tion deaiing with the new Yarieties of cotton that it is proposed to grow as a result of ~1r. Wells's vi8it to the United States of Amenca. The Minister snpplieu figures, showing that there were oYer 20 varieties that could be grown here with profit if the growers ~on­,·emeJ vvere interested and hau enough cap1tal, 1rhether of their own or derived from depart­mental sources, to grow them. He s.aid that whilst on a visit to the United States of America J\fr. \Veils made extensive investiga­tions into the results obtained in the cotton Strrtes where climatic conditions were com­narable to those in Queensland. After an inspection of varietal tests conducted at experiment stations and on con:merci_al bre~d­inO' establishments and after d1scusswns w1th le;ding cotton inv~stigators, he obtained seed of 26 varieties of cotto11 direct from the breeder of each variety and introduced them to Queenslanu for a test in the ensuing season.

T n my opinion cotton is one of the few primarv commodities for which there is an nnfnlfillec1 demand in Australia to-day. Mr. "\Veils says that the Queensland cotton indus­try is established on a eo-operative basis an cl is one of the few industries in which the pro­duct grown is handled by the growers' org-anisation from the field to the manufac­turer.

In connection with cotton, Mr. J. D. Young, the manager of the Cotton Board, has this to say~

''To maintain the Queensland cotton growing industry on a firm basis, it is incumbent on the growers to supply fully the requirements of the spinners. To accomplish this increased areas are neces­sary. ~When the general suitability of cotton for most of the soil types of the south­eastern portion of this State is considered, it becomes all the morBI apparent that growers cannot affoTcl to exclude cotton from their system of farm cropping.''

Here again, I say that a deaf car will not be turned to any who desire assistanee under this mea.sure to increase their areas and thus supply all the requirements of the spinners.

Some mention has been made, too, of the need for governmental aiel in the improvement of pastures, particularly coast pastures, for beef, and fat-lamb-raising purposes. I believe, l\h. Deputy Speaker, that there is an oppor­tunity for much useful work in pasture and o-rass improvement. Further instructiona.l and ~csearch woTk into problems concerning pas­hue improvement and grasslands generally has been planned by the Department of Agri­culture and Stock. In recent years a real ' 'grass consciousness'' has been ~vi dent, according to the Secretary for AgT1culture and Stock, among all who have had anything

286 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill.

to do with stock. Farmers and graziers have become increasingly impressed with the immense value of the work of the Department in this matter.

That brings me to a statement by the Chainnan of the Council of the Royal National Association, Mr. J. P. Bottomley, who recently said that his society intended to hold field tests and competitions for the encouragement of pasture improvements and production of maize, potatoes, and other crops. His words are-

'' The association was interested in pas­ture improvement. A competition started some years ago had to lapse through unseasonable conditions. It was proposed to schedule a new competition soon, and with favourable seasons a good response was expected from interested farmers. Pasture improvement meant greater carrying capacity and better stock.

"It was hoped to institute for the next show a field crop competition covering such products as maize, potatoes, wheat, and others. 'l'he aim would be to encourage higher yields.''

It is gratifying to know that the Royal National Association intends to embark upon such projects. The hon. member for Nanango o.nd others who know the Southern States, know that these competitions are features of agricultural shows there, and I am pleased that it is intended here to encourage the men on the land to go in for improvements in that direction.

I feel sure that this measure will have the support of the whole of the House. The Leader of the 0]1position started off by acclaiming the measure and then, I think, si arted to tell us that it was stolen from him. It does not matter when a measure of this sort is brought into the House, the socmer the better, of course, but it is never too late· to introduce legislation that has for its object the general imJ:lrovement of the conditions of rural industries.

lUr. UAR'I' (Wynnum) (12.49 p.m.): I make no apology for supporting a Bill of this nature, which I believe is not only in the inte:rests of the country but very much in the interests of the city also. Primary production and secondary industry must go together.

I was rather c1isnppointed that the Trea­surer did not explain more fully the proposals in the Bill. It is clear thnt it will bring about a co-ordination of departments, but it is not so definite that it will do much for the benefit of the people engaged in the primary production of the State. It may he a forward step but it does not go far enough. We must give credit where credit is due, but I >ms disappointed to hear the Treasurer speak of the pioneers in the way that he did when, in referring to the produc­tion of butter years ago, he said that it was something between axle grease and varnish. I know very well that the wives of those pioneers in the early days produced butter suitable for any gentleman's table. Some of the butter may have been of inferior quality but we lihonld be very careful of the way in which we

refer to the pioneers who did so much for this country.

The Secretary for Health and Home Affairs: You know that the best butter then came from Victoria and New Zealand.

Mr. DAltT: I do not agree with the hon. gentleman. I can recall a friend of mine who made butter equal to anything that came from Victoria. I suppose that we should not blame the Labour Government so much for failing to understand the conditions of the country, because nearly every member of the party is more inte•rested in the industrial parts of the State, or is returned by unions and similar interests. (GovernmPnt laughter). In Queensland we have 390,000 workers, of whom only about 126,000 are engaged on work in the country. Only about one-third of our population arc taking up rural pursuits and that is because Labour Governments have not giYen the encouragement to J:leople to go on the land that was given by previous Govern­ments. To-day the people engaged in rural pursuits-and by that I include those engaged in pastoral and agricultural pursuits-are handicapped in many ways and we are unable to make the progress that we made years ago. Previous Govemments, not of the type of Labour Governments, educated the people in hmY to mnke butter.

TlN~ Treasurer: Great Scot!

lUr. UART: No doubt the hon. gentleman >Yill recall that the Philp and other Govern­ments >Yith a similar political outlook per­mitted a man named Mahon to tour the country with a travelling dairy to teach the people how to make butter. That was the foundation of our butter production. Perhaps hon. members opposite do not know where the first experiments were carried out in the conservation Of fodder. I was present at the first demonstration which was <earried out at Gatton Agricultural College under the super­vision of Professor Shelton. Hon. members will realise how necessary it is to go back to the foundation of present-day develop­me:nt to understand the good >York done by previous Governments. Ho>Yever, many changes have taken place since then. Labour. Govern­ments have been returned to power but they have not interested themselves enough in the welfare of the country to provide all 'that is essential in the interests of development.

In our policy speech and in our platf0rm >~·e snirl thnt we >~·ere favourably disposel! to helping rural indnstries. This Bill is pre,­pared along lines calcula tecl to do so. It follmYs the methods lairl down by the Country Party to "\Yhich the United Australia Party was willing to lend its aid for the purpose. I congratulate the Labour Government on making a start in the right r1 irection to help the people on the land. We shall not achieve much success until we turn our eves to the land. After all, all wealth comes' from the soil, aml the people who till it enable us to­do away with unemployment and other evils. Successful settlement will enable useful work to be proYided for our people.

There are many angles from which we can look at this Bill. The Govemmemt propose

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTE:\IBER.] Go-ordination of Powers Bil!l. 287

to lJegia right, that is, at home. They are seeking to co-ordinate the Yarions GoYcnnnent <lt>partmcnts activities in the interests of the man on the lan<l. But the Bill does not o·o YE'l'Y far in helping or enc-ouraging tho~e people who 11ill he attracted to the land. Too many men •vho have gone on the land have been ,]iscouraged by the lack of assistance they should haYe rcceiYed from the Govern­ment. This Bill should go a little fmther than is proposed and gi.-e help to the man who needs help to settle aml stay on the land. In that way we can do something for on:· State. HoweYcr, it may not be too late to mend.

I suggest to the Minister in charg·c of the Bill that the Govermnent should giYe land to yom1.g· men who are prepare,] to start life on the lam1. This Government liaYe been too ready to place men on the lane! an1l then tax the land. A young man now clesirons o.f settling on the land should have similar prh·i­lcges to the olr1-time settlers. If we do some­thing for the man on the land in that direction "lYe shall do "\Yell by him. In the first year or so the Government must r1eal sympnthetic­ally v;ith him, lending him money interest-free nntil he gets on his feet, and thus giving him a fair chance to make good. Such men will be the best asset that the State coulrl have, for after reaching proc1uction stage they "IYil! keep their families well elotherl and fed, con­h·ibuto to 'railway anrl other governnwntal reYcnuc, and so }Jenefit the w:hole State. \Vbate.-er money is spent in hrlping these men in the first two or tln-e~' years "IYill be retumer1 indirectly.

T1wre are a few other matters I shonlrl like to touch upon, one being the need for 11elping farmers in and around the city of Brisbane. The area of the citv of Brisbane is 385 square miles. 1\Iany lai1C1s within its 1}ounrlnries are suitable for rural pursuits.

At 2 p.m., "}h. SPEAKEH resumed the chair.

)fr. HART: The Government should be able to give a great deal of assista11ce to rural settlers in the outer parts of· this vast area. :Vfany persons are engaged in fruit and wgetable growing, and I suggest to the hon. gentleman in charge of this Bill that the Government give consideratio11 to the rural dewlopment of the city area by helping in irrigation and the supply of fertilizcTS. Some of the land is not of first quality for the J1rodnction of fruit and YC'getables, but it could be improved and the Gm·crnment could supply manures to intending and existing settlers at cost price or by some concession in rail freights. It is now proposed to send a large number of men away from the city area to country districts, but I think if assist­ance "1\-ns given, some of those men would be glad to engage in rural occupations in and around the city. I do not say for one moment that every man would make a good farmer, but I do say that many men now engaged on relief work would prove satisfactory occu· pants of rural areas. Many of these men are btrong, robust, and able to work and have brnins. After all, it is only the man with

brains "IYho can follow a rural occupation satisfactorily. Instead of sending men to out­lying areas with no guarantee of permanent work, I suggest it ·would be far better to settle them on land in ancl around the city.

J\Icn who have engaged in rural pursuits within the Greater Brisbane area have in the main,. been successful. There ' are numerous settlers at Sunnybank, Runcorn, Cooper's Plains, and Hochedale. Some of these settlers have been successful and are really _the best assets we have, as they are producmg for themsel,-es and keeping them­so~,·es, and_ they do not have to be paid any­tlnng to hve on farms. J<'urthermore, they supply the city with fresh fruit and vege­tables. If assistance coulc1 be giYen to men to settle in such districts the Government would be doing a good thing for the State.

The Government have not helped some rural dwellers as much as they might. The milk industry in Brisbane is a disgrace to any Government. vVe are living in an age of economics and we study economy in many wavs. I am sure that this Gm·en11nent-and perlwps previous Governmcnts-h:JYe not given encouragement to the people engaged in the milk industry in and around Brisbane. 'I'he farmer who is within 10 miles of the General Post OfficP only receives 9d. a gallon for his milk on the farm. I am snre of that iigure, because only yesterday I was on a dairy farm ''"ithin the city of Brisbane ~nd the farmer showed me his statements. The consumer is paying 2s. a gallon for milk in the city. The fnmer recei.-es 9d. vVhy is that? This Government should have inquired into this matter before to ascertain why the pro1lucer has not had the consideration he deserves. Unc1er our present system there rnay he a dozen men supplying customers with milk i11 a given area of the city, whereas it could be arranged that one man would supply the whole area. One vendor should supply the require­ments of a street. That would be economy for the vendors a11d ensure that the farmers recei"l·ed a muc.h better pTice. The consumer would also get the article cheaper. Perhaps there are too many milk vendors, or what one might tenn middlemen. Of course, the dis­tributor is necessary and should receiYe a rea­sonable remnnerntion for his labour, but he should not be allmved to have a monopoly. The GovPrnment should giYe this matter due consideration unrler this Bill.

In the last six vears the Labour Govern· ment have spent {35,000,000, but how much of that has been spent in the rural areas or to help the farmers or rural workers~ It has benefited the labourers and perhaps con· tractors and others in the cities, but why not spend a fair proportion for the benefit of the people in the country~ Belonging to the city myself I must uphold it, but I know perfectly well that Queensland cannot prosper without Pxpending available moneys in equal shares between the cities and the rural districts. The city dweller is dependent on the products of the primary producer and secondary indus· tries can be carried on in the cities.

There are many ways in which farmers and others on the land may be ·assisted. I draw

288 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co.ordination of Powers Bill.

attention to the planting of artificial grasses. I understand that Para grass, a new pro­duct, is very good and some credit must be given to the Department of Agriculture and Stock for fostering the research in that respect. We also know that paspalum, Rhodes, and other grasses arc very useful, but this subject had not received as much attention as I should like. Hon. members have heard what Victoria has done in raising sheep. Some two years ago I had a meal at a place not far from Melbourne, and as it was a sheep district I naturally had mutton. I have never tasted mutton more tender or of a better quality, and on inquiry as to the reason I was told that the sheep were reared on artificial grasses.

The fat lamb industry has been mentioned in this debate, and I see no reason why it should not be carried on in our coast districts. There is no better country than the Darling Downs for the raising of fat lambs, but opportunities exist in other localities. Further research in artificial grasses to replace the natural grasses will help those engaged in that industry to produce a better article.

Since the Government have been in power the value of land in the outer areas of Bris­bane has decreased very much. This applies to land in the mral districts also. Why9 The Government have not given as much encouragement to people to go on the land as their predecessors. 'l'o-day one can buy a farm as lo>v as or lower than 2'0 years ago, and such being the case, it is therefore time that the Government took steps in the direction in which they arc now proposing to move. If land is more valuable there will be more people living on it. If by this Bill we can get people hack on the land it will be a move in the right direction and I shall cer­tainly give it my support. Certainlv values should not be made to soar-prices should be fair and rrasonabl<>-but they should not be allowed to decline to such a figure that it is impossible for the settlers to continue. I trust that this Bill will tend to an improve­ment in the outside areas and those already on the land will he encouraged to remaiir there, working in harmony and encouraged by a better outlook than that of the past.

There is only one way by which we can hope to give permanent employm'ent to our unemployed, nn<l that is by adopting a buoyant policy that will help the rural dis­tricts to produce more of the rnw mnterials for our secondary industries to manufacture, thereby giving rnore employment both on the land nnc1 in our factories and foundries in the city. Why should we send so many of our raw materials to the South to be manu­factured, when the manufacturing could be done here~ Take our hides. They are sent South to be manufactured into boots. '\Vhy could not the boots be manufactured in Bris­bane and so give more work to our men here on the full basic wage·~ I am not ask­ing that the basic wage be cut down. If more employment could be found in the city it would be a much better place than it is.

Most of us will admit that we need a greater population, but I do not agree that

we should attempt to increase our popuhtion by encouraging immigrants here until our unemployed are absorbed on works of a repro­ductive and pennancnt nature. If we can settle the men on the land and if we can embark on works that are of a reproductive nature, such as water and fodder conserva­ton, the State will prosper. I will support the Bill to the utmost if it means doing these things for the betterment of the State.

Mr. WALKER (Cooroora) (2.14 p.m.): I am sure we arc all grateful to the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock for having given us a detailed account of what is proposed in the Bill. We all knew that he was going South and it was ess'3ntial in the interests of hon. members that he should give us som~>· thing definite as to what the Bill really contained.

I realise that in Queensland we have excel­lent opportunities for developing our chief industries, and with their developm·ent will come the development of smaller industries in the way of by-products.

One hon. member referred to the wheat industry. Irrespective of what political party may be in power in either the Commonwealth or State sphere, we should do all we can to expand ~wheat growing, cotton growing. pig raising, lamb raising, wool growing, dair;ving; in fact, all our primary industries should be given every consideration. vVhen the i\Ioore Government were in power we introduced wheat stabilisation, guaranteeing the farmers 4s. a bushel, and the result was that the industry was put on its feet. In addition we provided facilities for the storage of whoa t, with the result that the great loss of 120,000 bushels that was experienced just prior to that time will never occur again.

Ono great obstacle in the way of wheat stabilisation, of course, >vas section 92 of the Conunonwealth Con~titution. VVe realised that what we were doing at that time was illegal, because the Cro>vn Law Office told us so, but we went aheacl >vith our scheme, and the Queensland farnl'ers gained thereby to an enormous extent. There is ample scope for the expansion of wheatgrowing in Queens­land. If this Bill is to be of any benefit at all the Government could do something to encourage the expansion of the wheat· growing industi'Y· They could encourage the growing of wheat in areas in which it has never been grown before. Some of the larger estates could be cut up, and I bclieYe that if we did this Queensland wonl<l at least be able to prodnee her own requirements, and that is all \Ye desire, because we know full well that over-production is taking place all OY('r the world. If we can bTing about stnbilisation it will mean an improvement to the consumer of approximately 3d. a bushel with a resultant irtcrease in the amount of work available in its production.

Cotton growing is another industry that could be developed to a great extent, as has been pointed out by the hon. member for Port Curtis. We know that the Queensland Government have done all they can to foster this industry, but we are in the unfortunate position of having to compete against the

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill.

imported product, which is the result of cheap labour. Although we cannot export cotton, it is pleasing to know that we are producing upproximately half of the State's require­nfents, and it must be encouraging to those engaged in the industry to know that it is proposec1 to erect a manufacturing plant in Brisbane, and I am sure that most people will not mind giving another 6d. for a smglet or shirt if thev are able to obtain an article manufactured 'in their own State.

It must be admitted that the butter industry has gone ahead by leaps and bounds and the Commonwealth and State Governments have assisted in stabilisation, so that apart alto­gether f1·om the bountiful season we have enjoyed the price is pleasing to all concerned, and great cl'e(lit should be given to the board controlling export.

If we go in seriously for pasture-dressing that will improve our butter industry mH1 the carrying capacity of our lands out of sight.

The beef industry also requires an enor­mous amount of development. We have had the introduction of livestock from all over the world and improvements in OUT grading. The faTmers are alive to these things, and as far as they are able "·ill do it themselves. Although it is not long since we first impOTted beef we are finding trouble to-day in getting markets. IV e cannot rely altogether on London. although British legislatOTs may help us in that re:;aTd as Vl·ith sugar, but we want to fi.nd markets where ~we can send many of the goods we are producing.

I venture to say that in a little while we shall be snpplying our own Tequirements in tobacco. It will be admitted that at the Brisbane Shov.- there was a display of tobacco equal to anything 'one might wish to smoke,

It is necessary that money shouln be lent to farmers who require it. Of course, once a man is big enough he will go to the private banks, prefening to have his cheqne-book in his pocket.

The Bill will !be veq beneficial if money is available. If it is not the Bill ,,.ill not do much more than is being done to-day, though it will help the departmental heads in adminis­tration and there will be no oveTlapping. It is quite possible at the present time for one man to get two loans from diffeTent departments at the same time, and the chances are that the secmity is inadequate, and the result may put both parties ont in their calm1lations.

The Bill may also foster the conservation of water on a small scale. Naturally the big works will be carried out by the Go;'ern­mellJt, as fOT the last few years. Anr1 1 hope that the Government will go on with works of a national character. The education of our fanners ic; a matter that Teqnircs atten­tion. We want thC'm to be fnlly alive to the advant:::ges and methods of conservation of fodder and water on a small scale, and also in regard to improving their holdings in order to nttain better production and reach wider mnrkets. These improvements should be brought a bout by the Bill, provi<ler1 there is money for the purpose.

1938-L

The Bill co-ordinates the ac1ministration of the Acts relating to advances to co-operati,-e companies, associations, a.nc1 prinwry pro· clucers, by the creation of the Bureau of Hural Devrlopment. Even when I first came into Parliament, the olcl despised Tory Govem­ment gaye consideration to co-operative con­cerns, and I know that they lent to many at 4 per cent. to give them a start. ·when we took over the Gvmpie butteT factory :10 ye:us ago we found that they had a loan from the Government, and it was only a question of time ancl good management to wipe it ouL The same thing could be repeated to-clay_ The £300,000 that the Agricultural Bank gets each year has been used over and 01'er again, ancl hy gooc1 and wise administmtion I hope that those funds will continue to circulate.

This is a good measure if it pTotects the applicants for assistance from duplication and delay. It should. I suppose that the bureau will be conducted like the AgTicultmal Bank, and that the manageT or secretary, or whateveT he is called, will be the bmins of the whole concern. I hope that a man like ~fr. Palmer will be chosen.

Another matter, small in itself, it may be thought, was mentioned by the :Minister, a, matteT that appeals to anyone who l~:1s had any experience in marketing. We wa;nt marketing agents all over th~ world. I rerrhse that to a large extent that 1s Commonwealth work, but the State conlrl do mnch more than it does. We also want marketing agents throughout the State, not 11eecssaTily employees put ~he~·e f~r that pmp~se, because we are not d1stnbutmg our fnnt and fish nncl other things as we should. Jl.fany of .the people in the \Vest do not know what a pme­apple is, and the result is that we have an unprofitable prire for a great der1l of the crop.

In competition with other prrrts of the world, the question of .cheap labouT comes in. T have already menhonecl seveTal products that we ccln p:xport successfully, hut there are many others that it is economically impossible to senrl awav. Tn looking through a news­paper yestenby I noticed that 1,523,000 r::~ses of pineapples were sent from Malay Stn tcs .to Great Britain last year, and that the ~tm1ts Settlements arc sending 71,000 cases of pme­applcs to Great Britain every ~veek. \Vc can­not po' sibly compete with th1s pro duet pro­<lucerl hv Chinese nnd Malay labouT.

Tl1c s~me can he said of bananas sent from the Canary Islnnds to Great Britnin. Whnt is the position with grapes? We can produce excellent gTapcs for four months of the ye:;r and keep them in storage for perhaps SlX

or seven months, but what is the use of trying to send them to the olcl country when J<:nO"lancl can bnv them much nearer aml ch~;per? Om ti·onble is that we are too fa:r from those markets. However, we mnst not be rlisheartencd, we must be big in ?m· outlook, we mnst remember that we are domg Temarkahly \Yell and that \Ve sh~ll do better. Australia must c:ndenvour to 1ncreas·~ her expoTts.

Much has been sairl a.bout tne need for an increase in population, but goodness know&t

290 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill.

where we are going to iind good land with good water for a large number of new settlers. The Dill ·will help in that direction provided money is marle availnble for development pur­poses-for the conservation of water and similar projects. Perhaps in time we shall not finrl it necessary to import any goods at all, and perhaps it would be a good thing if this country was self-contained. The Ottawa Agreement rlid much to regulate trade within tlw Empire, and it is pleasing to know that it resnlted in a great saving to Great 1~ritain as >Yell as to Australia, but all the reports on the snbjed refer only to the benefito that Iun·e been conferred on the respeetivc countries without any mention of the markets that have been lost; and we have lost some.

It is also contended, aml with justification, that an enormous amount of goo<l will follow the application of science to industry. \Ve shoula know what is lacking in our soil, hecau~e pasture improvement will be an important factor in increased agricultural {levelopment. Perhaps it may 1Je possible to inCl'ense c1niry production even from smaller areas. 'I'here is a limit to the number of eows that can economically pass through one bail. All these things have to be taken into eonsiclcrntion. -

.Just realise for a moment the important economic changes consequent upon the instal­lation of efficient labour-saving machinery on farms. "\\,Then a property is developed to a satisfc:ctory stage, perhaps, tractors are usell ancl theflC may mean the displacement of at least a do?,cn men, although the production! from the area may be increase(] twenty times. Again all these factors have to be taken into eonsidcration and thus we must move cautiously.

::IIncl! has )Jecn said about the good >York of tht• pioneers. \Ve take onr hats· off to them, lmt arc we not still in the pioneering sta.ge in many resperts? Decentralisation is more nccessen than ever in manv of our more importn;1t operations. If the worker in the eil;-· is to enjoy equitable industrial conditions as laid rlom1 hy the JndnstTial Court, the11 similar conditjons should apply to the man in the country. I do not say that the people in the country should he bett0r trcatcc1, bnt at least they shonlr1 b0 placed on an equal footing-. We in the cmmtr;· have om arlYan­tagcs ;just as the people in the city have their nrlvantages. 'rhe city has its picture shows. but ·the country h'ls its entertainments too. \Vhy, :l!fr. Spenl~cr, if you lived in the country you could not resist taking ont your gun for a little sport, nml that is a pleasure not always av:iilable to the man in the city. There ar0 the compensations.

The A gTicnlturnl Bank has done wonr1erfnl m>Tk eno~· since its iJLception many years ago, although ·in early years it had only a few lnmclred ponncls at its rlisposal. 'l'o-day it is nil or att:\1 an annual sum of £300,000. Jt has rlonr »'UHleTful >York, and I am sorry to think that it has l•ecn critici•;ed in this Chamber on tl>e ground that it has been slow in making :Hl\·:mces. I have been to the bank repeatedly hut ncccr have I har1 cause for complaint.

Every case has been considered on its merits and in fact the officers of the bank have gone out of their way to deal with matters expeditiously. Every claim for an advance has been granted ,~·here the settler has been a man of good character. That is always the factor to be considered in making advances­will the man pay if he has the money to pay~ Most people >Yill meet their commitments, 'but some will not. Perhaps sometimes an inspector of the bank may submit a bad report, but that >vcaknec<s is to be expected where there are 20 to 30 men acting for the bank.

A great. deal has been said about delay. I rem em her going up to the Atherton Taible­laml a few years ago. The people of that area wanted decentralisation. An agent's rep01·t could be made by wire and the return coulrl come from BTisbane within a week or ten clays aml the borro>Ycr would know within that time wh~ther he was gain'),' to get his money or not. Decentralisation cannot be achie\·crL The registration of all leg"c\1 documents must be done in Brisbane. Pri­vate banks certainly did a good lleal of work prior to the depression, but immediately the rTeprcssiou came they em1eavourer1 to throw bad debts on to the Agric-ultural Bank. Thev certainly endeavoured to do that until J\I r.' Deshon took charge. The depression came and values went down. Private banks certainly did splendid work but they would not go into the bush until they found that the security was sound, and in any case they probably wanted 1 per CCJJt. more t.han the l+ovcTnment want at the present bme.

'rllis Bill does not propose to liberalise the aclministration of loans to farmers. In my opinion J 0s. in the £1 is a liberal advance. Fnfortunatrh-, men who borrow monrv some­times do not. know ho"· to spend it. I blame the inspectors for the trouble that arises in man:y instances. A man may, for insbnce, >vant £500 or £600, but if he has to stipulate },ow he proposes to spend that sum and he ~·1vs it is for the ereetion of a house, the su;11 should not be granted. Every applicant shonld lw a<ked what he proposes to clo with the money. The hon. gentleman in charge of the Bill rrfcrrerl to pioneers, hut pioneers HCYC'l' thought of hnilcling a house at a cost of £.)00 ne £600. Thev >Yere content with homes r•osting £50 or '£60-in some cases less. Th0y "·ere content to liYe in comfort anil >van;lth. '!'hey lived we]] and the mn.iorit:v of them h~d rrspectnhle families. T mnst sa~· that pri\·ate banks have certainly clone wonrlc•rfnl work all(] they nrc rloing goorl work. At the sanw time, it must be said that the!' abused their position anrl it is not in the interests of this State that a si1nilar state of affairs shonlrl agflin exist.

The clebvs th.nt sometim<'s oc·cnr in the Agricultmai Dank arc a serions difficulty. J know of an instance in whieh an inspector had as many as 50 applicants for loans lying on his table. These things can be rectified.

F1Hler the Bill a boarrl is to be set up to consitler applications for advances and I am satisficcl that that board will give the same eonsirlcration to applicants as- formerly was

Rural Development, &:c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill. :?DI

gh·en by the Agricultural Bank. IV e shall have nothing to fear in that direction. The Departments of _\.griculturo and Stock and Publi0 Lanc1s are the departments chiefly concerned and those departments will be rcprcscntci! on the proposed board. rrhe Treasury "·i !1, of course, be represented, as that dcpartmcn t will be in charge of the finance. I think the proposal to leni! 16s. in the £I is a fair one because the margin of 4s. for the risk of depreciation in the lanrl is not large. Depreciation might be -brought about by 11eglect or by a disease in the pro­rlncts of the lanc1. The Local Bodies' Loans Guarantoe Act is certainly worthy of con­sidprntion. T know that the H.nral Credits Rr:mch of the Common\Yea.lt.h Bank wns criticiscc1 a great deal in this C~hamber, but it was not brought into being to make arhnnces to private concerns. I do not know of on0 application from Queensland thnt was tnrn~r1 do\Yn. It \Yas ncce<sary for the Com-111011\H'rtHh Bank to get a State guarantee on lonns to pool hoarc1s. Surely if a State GoYd'nmcnt set up snrh a boar·rl, they should be game el'Ough to support it. The GoYern­ment of the State know the inner workine:s of the whole business. The Stale Govern­nlent were cornpr·11ed to lJeeomc gnn.rantors because of the legislation goHrning com­moditv pools. Then:; is no harm in that nnd I rea·n,; fed that it is a safcgnarLl. It ~pplicd nlso to the l\Iooro GoYcrnment. 1'.',, gaye gnarnntees to the Commonwealth Bank in rc;:an1 to the cotton and pe:mut pools nm1 several others.

1t has been sait1 that the Rural Crcrlits Rmnch of the Commonwealth Bank has not lwlncd the man on the land. The Common­we~lth Bim k >ms established bv the Commonwe-alth GoYernment and hranehes arc to be frnmcl a!! m·er Australia. Its Tamifica­tions are ,-rry "·irle anr1 it works mnc)J as privde hanks; but c1oes not us? thRt lmmch merely ns an ngrieultnral hank. If n man wants a loan he can go to the Commonwealth Bank nnrl ohinin it in much the same way as he: rn11 fl-nm anv other financial institu­tion. The mcthoc1 rlc1o11te-(1 js sonnrl.

\\'ill t hr Bill be of anv aid to farmers in times of droughH T do i10t think it will. I shoulr1 like to think that it would b~canse on]-. last year airl was rcnder·cr] to the cattle antl bntter inr1nstries tllTough the Gm·ern­ment. In passing, it is rather plcnsing to sec that apnroximately half that money hn' has been returned io the Government in one year. I should like to know whether the Bill embr:1ees sueh a proposal, hrcausc it >voald simplify m;;tters and scotch the cry that is Taised by some persons when a requC'st is mncle by farmers for R littb help for the nurchase of fodder. If that ran l1e in~lmktl, it 1dll certainly help very much.

\Vill the Gowrnment hm·e po>Yer to adYance money for the export of Lutter? That is a question I l1avc be2n askerl. ::\Ty opinion is that they would not. J<"irst, I t1o not think it is neceJ~ary becansc the Commonwealth Bank will make an advance on export. That is whrtt it is there to do and it has done it

repeatedly. IY c do not nee' cl any over-lapping·. As soon as the butter is placed in the colr1 stores an arhanc·e can •be obtainer} so that the farmer ean be paid. Othcn1·ise he might. have to wait three months.

If a fair share of loan m on 7 is <"Xpcncled on rnral development a wonderfully importnnt work can he accomplishcrl. It is useles8 con­filling the amount to £300,000. 'fhe Hural Crcr1its Branch of the Commonwealth Bank :dso financer1 co-operatiYe assoeiations Brancl~c·s of the Commonwealth Bank are to J,e fonnc1 in everv town and a man seeking n lonn is dealt >iith at once, with the result that he gets on p<1rtienlarly wr1l, cnnse­qucntlv settlers arc S\Yitching over their financial business to the Commonwealth Bank.

Tf there is no money available for the rleYclopment the Government propose it will mean many mislparJing statements and cause no CJH1 of trouble. Personally, I hope it is all rio·ht otherwise the present Bill and the one- that had precede<] it, together with the propng-anda associat0d \Yith them, is merely pnlling the wool m·er the eyes of the public. This would be a great pity and I hope that i~ not so.

The Government are carrying out an entirely new polic-y, for financial reasons. In other \Yords, money is talking. This year the Government will ha,·e £260,000 less loan money anrl also less unemployment rclicx tax revenue to the extent that they carry their promis~ of reduction into effect. The age of miracles is not past-the Government are g;oiiig to giYc 1noro \vork anc1 \vages out of le· s moneys. As far as we can judge from what has a.ppc;uec1 in the Press, the GoYcrn­mccnt '"ill sack abont 16,000 int~rmittent relief workers, \Yho will revert to rations, anr1 will provide 1,200 to 2,000 extra full-time jobs. That sudden spurt, ho\Yever, will mean. l<'ss >York later on in the year. About 1-1,000 intermittent rrlief \YOrkers and their f mi]iP'l. 1Yi1l be thro\Yil to the wolves.

}Ir. Jes·son: Tha~ is wrong.

:\Jr. '\L\LI£EU: I hope it is.

Jir., JeHson: Of course it is.

Jfr. '\r_U_,Ii.E:l1: I do not kno>':. s.m just sL1ting my case. If it is wrong I "hall be ]Jka,ecl. Ringle mrn will g·et Ss. a ,,~eek and 1narried men J ?s. a \'H't'k plus a small allowance for children.

1'\Ir •. t'l'EA KER: Order! This is not the Bill on which to discuss that matter.

JUr. WALKER: I admit that, but it all comes in the question of rural development.

:nr. §l'EA.!IEI::.: Order! There will be a Bill before the House later on to deal with the reduction on the unemployment relief tax.

Jjfr. "WALKER: I am not going into rldnils of the matter now. I am giving round· figmes to illustrate that if this does not occur the loss \Yi!l be a certain amount ultimately, and I am wondering what will be the position of the unfortunate 1memployec1. Of cour-,c. 1

292 Rural Development, &:c., [ASSEMBLY.] Go-ordination of Powers Bill.

should Jiike to discus' it anu to read this paragraph that l have here.

,~r. SPEAKER: Order! So would every olher hon. member, I am sure, but this is not the stage for doing so.

Mr. WALKER: I realise that you are quite sincere in your opinion, M·r. Speaker, hut I wish to point out also that in my opinion this ltas something to do with the question of rural development, and if what the Minister has stated is trne--an.d I cannot contradict it-I honestly think, that I am right in discussing the matter now. As vou have ruled otherwise, I have no other colirse left o1wn to me but to resume my seat.

Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba) (2:43p.m.): I realise that other speakers have not left much new ground to be broken, but I should like to emphasise the point that I feel that if this Bill is propel'ly administered it will be of distinct benefit to the State. We all know that in past years many measures have been passed hy this House, measures that would have been useful if the effect of them had not been nullified by the way in which they wer<' administered. This is a measure that requires very sympathetic arlministration indPN1, because on its administration will rest 0ntirely its success or otherwise.

The object of the Bill is to bring about r<rcatr·r rural development in the State. That is an oh_jective with which every hon. member who has spoken to-day is in aerord and one with "'-hicJt everyone who has the interests of the State at heart must agree. During the lnst election campaign the Country Party ·went to the people with the main planks of their polic.y based on rural development. The fnrt that the Government have realised the ;·r!.lne of !hnt policy ?f ours is shown by their mtrcH1nrbon of vanous measures of which this Bill is one, during this sossio~ of Parlia­mPnt. In fact, it 'vill be noticed that the Bill goe~ so far a~ to state specifically that nual devplopment shall include such things as :·ingbarldng, grubbing, suckering) and clear­mg. That interpretation is almost word for word witl1 one of the main planks of tlte ( :onntry Party dnring the last election.

I think ever.vbodv will agree on the need for the co-ordination of effort of the various authorities that have been lending money up !o clntc for the purposes of rural development. iVe hnv<~ hatl adnmceR mnde by the Agricul­tm~l B:mk, by tho Department of Labour flnrl Industry, anr1 by the Department of Public Lanils, hnt many of those advances haw ll'lt been co-ordi1iated. If this Bill hring" about co-orr1ination of effort specifies the direction in which these a rh-a nJes are to hP nRc ,] for rural development, and assures the men on the land that the advanct::J are 1-o h" nw.de along lines that will give the greatest retnrn for the money expended it will justify its passage by this Parliament.

I notice that it is proposed to appoint a board comprising one member from the Department of Agriculture and Stock, one from the Treasury Department, and one from the' Department of Public Lands. Those are the three departments vitally concerm;J in

the operations of the measure. I hope that the members of the board will be wisely selected, that they will be men who are fully conversant with the work that they are to undertake. As I have said already, in my opinion the success' of the Dill rests entirely on its proper administration. Very heavy responsibility will devolve upon the gentle· man who is selected as secretary of the bureau, as he will be the man who will be the adminis­trative officer and the link between the person \vho wants the advance and the board who ~'tJproves of it or otherwise. To my way of thinking, at .the present time the officers of the Agricultural Bank, being men trained specifically in the class of work that will have to be undertaken by the bureau, are the men who should be given first consideration in the selection of a hoard to supervise this most important worK.

I should like to emphasise a point that I mentioned on the introductory stages of this Bill, namely, that this hoard should not he altogether one that deals with applic.atious as a public accountant would deal with them, hut H should take into account the personal qualifications of applicants for loans. That is my chief complaint against the bureau­it tends to become impersonal, and the personal qualifications of the borrower are in consequence not taken into account. That is why I think that the recommendation of the principal officer of the bureau, the secre­tary, should be followed by the board in the recommendations that he makes to them, seeing that he has had contact v;ith the borrower. After all, the personal qualifica­tions of a borrower go a long way towards the success or otherwise of the loan.

The co-ordination of effort brought 3 bout hy the introduction of the Bureau of Rural Development will concentrate the energies of the technical officers of the various depart­ments concerned, and this should make for better results from the advances made avail­able by the bureau. I think that we must rralise that in the past, where we had the Department of Public Lands anrl the Ag-ricul­tural Bank ancl the Department of Labour anil Tnclustry administering advances, borrowers have often gone to the Agricultural Bank, 3ml after investigation by trained officers had their applications turned down. But they llave then gone to the other departments and secured advances and in some instances there has been just so much money thrown away. By the organisation set up by this BilL applications will be fully investigated h;~­traitwd officers of the Bureau of Rural Development.

In addition to making money available, the bureau should also be in 'l position to give some guidance as to the development of our primary industries. That is to say, in addi­tion to providing the finance it shoulrl also direct the use of that finance along lines that v:ill bring about a planned deYelopment of our industries. In the past we have had too much of the '' borro,v, boom and burst'' tactics in our primar;· industries in this State. Somebody will suggest that such and such '' crop is a good thing to grow in Queensland, everyone rushes into it without investigation of

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill. 293

.the market, and the result is there is no market for the produce when it is gTown, and much money is lost and much effort wasted and many disappointed prof!ucers have to tuTn their energies and the rest of theiT capital-if they have any left-towards producing some­thing that will be payable. I think it should be the object of this Bureau of Rural Devr·lop­ment to sec tlmt finance and effort shall be diTected towaTds the production of crops for which there is a market. If they do some­tl:ing like that they will vei·y gTeatly assist in the development of the State.

Another matter concerns loans made by the AgTicultural Bank that have not turned out ns \\'dl as the}~ should, the bank then having to take possession of the property. I must· say that I have had dealings with the Agricultural Bank on behalf of m:my of my clectoTs and the offieers of tho bank Jmye been very sympathetic and in all ways have endeavoured to help borroweTs. UnfoTtunately, the efforts of borrowers are sometimes hampeTcd by the conditions under which they are working and it becomes necessaT~' for the bank to repossess a property eYen though the borrower has worked his hnn1est. In taking possession of a ·l)l'OpeTty could not some arrangement be made 11·ith the oTiginnl bonower to enable him to carry on by means of a writing down of some of his capital liaJbilities~ That c1n be clone through another member of his family, but J thin], it >Yould be better to have a writing­off and a readjustment of the capital value so that the original borrower may start again "·ith an opportunity of making good on a propeYty in which he may have inYested all l1is capital, and on which he has live<1 for many years. The Bill pTovides for a writing­off in the case of bonowers who may get into difficulties with Crown land, but I do not know 1vhethcr it is intended to apply that principle gcJwrnlly in the future. It is a matter that could be taken into account and T hope that the measure will not be so hide­l>ound in administTation as to prevent the most sympathetic consideTation from being given to borro\vers, 'vhOJ through no fan1t of their own, mny fin(1 themselves in cliffirulties.

As the Lender of the Opposition said, the factor that will make or mar the Bill will be the amount of money aYaib ble to the Jmreau, nnr1 RftPr ail the. protestations from the Govemment bmches that thev Tealise the value of rural development in this State I l1ope that :t greater amount of monev, in proportion to tot:tl Government expenditure, will be available.

Looking back oYer past years we find, nnfor­tunatPlv, that the oremtions of the Agricul­tural Bank have to a c~rtain extent been hampcr0d by the amount of loan money made m·ailable to it. In 1931-32, the last vcaT of the Moore Government. of a total loan cxpendi­tnre of £1,162,910 that Govcrnm('nt made availn hie £432,237 to the Agricnltnral Bank for arlnmces to 1,738 settlers.

The Premier: The amount that they made available and the amount that they spent were two different figures.

~Ir. N!CKI,IX: I thank the Premier for drm,-ing my attention to the matter. I should

haYe said that the amount approved was £432,2:17, but in 1936-37, of a total loan expenditure of £3,160,300, the amount approved for the same purpose was £264,259 for 1,393 applicants. 'l'hat was a big reduction com­pared with 1931-32. It is not good business to silaTve the Agricultural Bank financially and I hope that it will be a feature Df the administration of the new bureau that, instead of a lesser amount, an increased amount will be available to enable it to carry out the great work that undoubtedly can be performed under this Bill.

Therefore, the success of the Bill rests, firstly, on sympathetic administration, secondly, on the amount of money that will be made aYailable to it, and so I hope that the buTeau will rec.ei ve tl1e sympathetic. adminis­tration that its objective deserves and that the GoYernment will in no way hinder its opera­tions by lack of the necessaTy funds.

lUr. BRANn (Isis) (3.0 p.m.): Queens­land is primarily a primary-producing State, and the success of the Government's policy in improving the general economic welfare of the State depends upon the prosperity of the rural industries.

This State has all the grPat agricultural nnd stock raising imlnstries that might be found in the Southern Hemisphere-industries which, since settlement began in Australia, haYo lJeen the means of provir1ing the people of this country with a livelihood am1 helping in the rlevelopment of our secondary indus­tries. Naturally, any Bill that seeks to help in the de\\'lopment of the~e primary inclus­tTies and by means of finance-which I understand is one of the objects of this Bill_. 1vill indeed be a great boon to the people on the lrrnd. The Bill in itself is justified because it co-ordinates anrl consolidates all the forces of governm0ntal assistance to ouT nual indudries. It fills a long-felt >Yant.

\Ve ha\·c had, in the past, many Acts of Parliament designed to giYe financial aid to people engaged in rural industries, but the assistance Tendercrl has not consolidated their position as Parliament cxpecter1 it would. IV e on this side of the Honse arc lookmg to this consolidated Bill with hope that greater efficicucv will be seen in the administration of Acts ·having foT their object the helping of people to develop their holdings, make them­selyes successfnl, and earn a liYelihooc1 1nthout further recourse to the GoYermnent.

'\V e hnYe lm<l the spectacle in Tecent yeaTs of e9tablislw'1 settlers in Queensland finding themseh-cs in the position, on aeeount of adverse seasons, of having to apply to the Government for assist a nee to re-stock their properties, or even 11rovide them with a living on the land. Such a result has been brought about by the fact that Acts of Parliament have l1een placed on the statute-book with the object of helping primary producers but with inadequate supplies of money to rlo so in th€ early days of settlement. Generally speak­ing, most of them have had to go to private banking institutions for aid. The small lend­ing power of the Agricultmal Bank in a State like Queensland, which is so vitally concernerl with rural industries is a poor compliment to those industries.

294 Rttral Developmrm, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill .

. IVc justly claim· to hav~e many great indus­tncs m Queensland. As a lclueenslander I am proud of them, and proud to be associated with some of them. l do hope that the princi]:le tm<lcr!ying this Bill will make this _:;gricnltural Bank, as we know it to-dav a real Bureau of Hural Development that \~ill be of great service to the people of Ctueens­land. lusteau of haYing a lending power of ~tpproxilllately £250,000 it should have a lcnd­mg power of at least £1,000,000. This woul,[ ena.ll~e that bank to give the greatest possible assiS<nm·e to the i11<lustrics y.e ha,·e to-day and those that mHy yet be developed.

· TLc Government intimated in the early hours of this session that they had embraced a policy of forn ard planning. \\' e are going to meet that policy in this Bill. \V e have alre"'ly passe<! a Bill lmving for its object the eo-ordillation or pu!Jlic works develop­ment, an(! this Bill (·an be a great aid if pr.operly a pp lie cl to the clcvclopment of indus­tnes and the aid of citi> ens of this State cngage•l in rural indusb·ies.

One of the tragedies of our time is to :find that we have iu Queensland primar.Y producers capable ot' producing tho requirements of the nation, with a margin for export, who c:mnot make a li,-elihood that y, ill compare with that of those sections of the comnmuity livin a in the metropolitan areas. Yet they are b the ones >vho should hm-e some assm·'l:mce of a rcasona!Jle income as they arc endea;-ourina in the interests of the State to make tw~ blades grow where one grow before. I hope the Gon'rnment ha,-e a policy under which thc.Y ran obtain the finance necessary to make of this Bill the effectiw agency that we desire it to be. I recognise it is not an easv matter to get that mone.Y: that the Governn~ent can­not .va\'<' a magic >Yand and get all the funds the.'- l"Hjnire for the deYclopmcnt of t!J,; <·ountr)' and the canving out of the mrun­activiEes of the State;. ];ut it should be eon~­parntivcl:r easy for th:; :\gricu1tm·al Bank \dth the backing of thn Governn:tcnt, to ob~.ai1~ Pnough to gi-r0 our industries adequate :finance. I look fon;-arcl to this measure's becoming 1::nv and an instrument by ''hirh greater help e;;n he affordetl to tho;" 1irinrc in country districts. '"

In Queensland with its varied sea·;ons. dur­ing which CJclones, floods, frosts, ' and droughts occur, a Bureau of Rural Develop­ment should concern it8e1f a great deal with the provision of water facilities and inui­Yidual irrigation projects. I do not exempt the more favoured parts of K orth Qucenslaml in this respect,, because even there irrigation p1ants can be a help towards greater develop­ment. In the course of this debate and manv times previously it hns been said that lm·g·e inigation schemes cannot l1c a succPss in Queensland. There may be some truth in this assertion, and some of our larger cxperin1ents in irrigation projects may have prow'l failures, but it is ·well known that small irri­gation plants have often been highly success­ful. This is one of the best forms of securitv that eould he ohbined ],y the Bureau of Rm~l ne,·plopment, for b.Y a supply of >mter it shoulrl be ]JOssible to develop new industries that are not progressing as- we should like,

particularly the fat-lamb and pig industries" the cotton and tobacco-growing industries; all of which require small irrigation plants tu make them a success. There arc many settlers that appl.Y themselves to these. industries, an([ I believe that if ,1·e give to them facilities to get the necessary :finance to enable them to buy small irrigation plants, we shall hnYe provided them with a means of building u l' industries that are of great value not merely to Queensland, but to Australia.

I commend the provisions of thi:; measure that make it possible to enable finance to be made m·ailable to improve our country areas.

l am not unmindful of the fad that the c\_gricultural Bank lws done much useful \York 'rith the limited resources that it has. h:Hl at its contm:md. If it could be made a IJank of great iwportance in the :financial life of the State it would be an instrument of \'Cl'.'' great development in the economic life nf the State, because we have records showing how successfully rural areas have been developed by a<lvances for ringbarking, scru h falling, and similar work, which have, in fact, won new lands for the State. 'rhronghout the length and brearlth of the State there aTe still l:ugc areas of lnnd that are undevelopcrl. It is trPc> that some of this land ma.Y not be as rieh as that which has been settled already, lmt n t least it is adapted to certain indus­tries and if put to proper use would be the means of creating greater settlement in the State and building np the communit.Y life of iis rural areas.

There is great opportunity for expansion, tno, in the cattle and sheep raising activities "f Que11nslanr1. }I any millions of pounds could be used to gTc·:tt advantage and on sound seeurity throughout those areas. If 'Ye \Vere to con\·crt so1ne of onT eattle-raising­:ueas into sheep-raising lands, not only would t1JC Rtnte deri\·o greater income, but work would be found for a great many people who to-day are unemployed. By this policy those peonlc will be able to earn a. livelihood in a calling that provides a goorl standrml of wages. \Vr all know that at present the shcep·raising· industry pays higher ·wages than the cattle-raising industry can afford. I hor<c tlwt the Bureau of Rural Development will gi.-e attention to these matters, Y-hich are so important to the advancement of Qucenslnncl, or, to use the Government's words. ''for the well-bring of the ceonnmic life of Queensland."

One feature of the Bill that strikes me is thnt it gi.-es an inrlic'!tion of ,,-hat we are to expect of the many Bills that the Secretarv for Ag"I"icnltnre and "stork proposes to submit to the House, in thnt lJ.Y this Bill the llrinister tnkcs great powers unto himself. He has pov er to over-ride the bureau, and even sci0ntists can do nnthing without his autho­Tity. In our public service we have n1f"n of J:io;h standing, men >vho hayc 'lnalified in ;-he school of experience, and who have proved themseh·es to be Yer.Y valuable citizens, and one woulrl think that such men as these, by Yirtuc of the positions that they have occu­piNl in the scn·ice, ~hould at least be given a free hand. The Ministtr 's association with

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEmBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill. 295

the bureau should be merely that of the per:::;un thl'ough whon1 fiuunt0 111ay be n!ade ::n1ilaHc•. l submit that anY sensible Secre­tary fur Agriculture and St~ck should recog­nise th;Jt a board comprising men of high qnaiiti,·,ttlons is capable of making recom­mendations that ought to be accepted. Unfor­tmwtely, in this Bill \Ye find, as in many others, that no matter what the board or the Reientific officers may say the Minister has sneh \Yiclc power that he can v-eto any of their n••:onunendations. [ nrge upon the Minister the neecl for recognition of the fnct that if he expects this Bill to be as effective as l'nrliamont would have it, it is essential that the officers in charge be giv-en a certain :u.~ount of power so that they can carry out the ;y·ishes of Parliament. The Secretary for .\c;rh,~ltnre nml Stock seems to love p(nn:r. Tie wants power to control everything that !Je has unrler the jurisdiction of his office. It lll~J be nll right in some things, but I hope i here ''ill be the least possible political intcr­ferPnr·c with the bank board. We find that l:tilkiw;- nnthorities regard political inter­f•·n·ncc as the ·worst feature associated with l~::nking reform, ancl I hope that the hon. g-c,1tlvmau will recognise that truth in a matte;· of so great impOTt:mce as this. The lJOard should be composed of capable men, gi,'en rho fullest authority, and shoulcl be allmwd to stand by their recommenf!ations. If the:· rlo not ·'deliver the goods,'' they may he snpplant0:1 at any time. I have faith in the ability of officers of the departnwnts con­cerned to give effective s'Crvice and to carry out the duties of their ofilce with celerity.

One o£ the clifficnlties in the past has been the slomwss with which an application can he granted. I recognise that often it is diffi­cult to get an immerliate in,1:ection, hnt if _von fire going to han• a :\IinistPr of the Crom1 controlling ever:v a<lvnnre I can see still further delays in finaneing the settlers. \\"hc·n nrhances are rt'r'ommcnded and autho­, iserl t::e quicker they are paicl to the settlers the ],r-Hrr for them nn<l for the industries of the State.

T ·~,.nntc•l to 111:1kc those fl~W eonnnrnts on thr• priw-iples un,krl.ving tlw Bill lwcauso T heliew that we mnst loo!< fonv·1n] an<l tlmt it iR ncecRsn_ry to consolidnt0 t1H• adn1inistra~ t~on of the ,::tl'ions forms of a:;:;sh-;hmf'e that thr) Oon'l'Hn1cnt gh-e to rnral incl11strv. Par~ linnwnt kn·in~ ~stahlishnrl thl' 11rinciplP of :~ssis\:111<'<' to rural imlt1stTy, tlw people will 1< .,1, fn•· th0 d'fcetive ndministration of this !;ill. [ tlt,•refqre urp·c the Secretarv for AP"ri­r·nlt·;,-,- rm<l Rtoek t~ be careful n~t to o\:'er­rirle rc•r"JllllllCn<lntirms made by re0.ponsible ofllc, rs, l.rnt to g·iw them considerrrhlo latitude :md not be a political interferer in matters nf Yitnl eoneern, partienlnrly fin:mce, con-

<1 '' ith the Agricultural Bank.

'l'ht> Treasurer: When has tllat been flon,':

)fr. BRAND: It has been done in many ht"~ .nee.--;. At least the people of Queensland n:lil Ans1rnlin 1:·enernllY haYe no tin•e for and linYc not nccejJtP<l the princi]•lc of political int\·l·frrenre in b:-tuk board n1att(•rs. I hope ilte Bi1l will give us the help \YC ncorl in the

recovery and development of our State that has l cen forecast for it, and that in 12 months' time we shall find that good service has been rendered and that the bank's lend­ing powers ha1·e been increased to at least £1,000,000.

JUr. Y.EATES (East Toowoomba) (3.23 p.m.) : I rise to give general support to this twin-brother Bill. Goodness only knows where the Goyernment hunted up the name for it! The Bill conltl lmve had a shorter title, hnt \Ye will accept it as it is, subject to c·ertain amemlments.

\\' e need something to spec cl up the grant­ing of loans to agrici1lturists and new settlers, and I hope that more money will be available to spee<l up the settlement ancl development of Queensland.

I revarrl this Bill as ihe mainspring in the elock of the Gowrnment 's programme for the session, but I hore that the works will be specrler1 up and e··:rried out effectively.

'Fhe Bill will provi(le much work if it is properly a'lministererl. \Vhen the Goycrn­ment were before the people they did not say anything at nll nbont th-e abolition of relief work, no rlouht hccnusc they were then in neec1 of a fe\Y votes, and it was not until they hall bccomc finulv seated in the saddle that they announced in the Press that after the sixteenth of this month all single men and some man-icrl men will be taken off relief \YOrk. I sa:v clcfiuitely that th·e transition is too fast. Of cmll'se, the job was long over­clue and shonlrl hav-e been stnrted two years ago, hut now that it is startecl it is being rushecl. I should like to remincl the Premier of really the first \vends in one of his policy speeches in which he referred to ''the callous and brutal treatment of the public servnnt~ by the :'If oore Govemmont.'' It mav be that when history comes to l1c written in. the future it will be necessary to recall the Premier's ''callous ancl ln·,;t:::l trcatnwnt of the relief \VOTker.''

I sincerely hope that tltc Premier is now seriously considering his solemn promise to the country to inquire into the incic1ence of tnxntion, e<·peciall;v company taxation. This will have an important bearing upon sccond­nry in clustries, the development of which is closdy inter-related with· rural development.

)fr. SPEAI{ER: Order! The hon. mem­her is ·wandering from the principk'l con­tained in the Bill.

~fr. YEATES: I have very much plea­sure in supporting the chief features of the Bill-\Yater ronservatio11, ri.ngbarking, anc1 sir:nilar ''orl<. Ring1wrking 1ne:tns i.n1proYed enrrying enp:H·ity in n1any instances, and that prompts me to suggest tbat there is room for ronsi,lernble improvement in this rc9pect in that rrrea of eonntry bomuled by a line from Gl:lrlstoliC to Yeulb~ to vVelitown and in bv \Yarwick. Gnder this Bill there will be "opportunities for considerable rural dewlopment in the new Palmcrston settle­ment, where some 20 bloel's arc to be opened for settlement, in the Eungella highlands at the back of Mackay, at Julattcn in the Port Douglas hinterland, \Yhcre 10 blocks will be

296 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co·ordination of Powers Bill.

shortly opened up, on the Athcrton 'rable­land, the centre of a great maize-producing nrea, and in the Maalan scrub lands, where 27 portions will be available for selection before long. There will be room for further development in the Dalby and D:uling Downs districts, the centre of considerable wheat cultivation. Queensland has an area of 6'70,000 square miles, and although I realise that parts of it arc not suitable for culti­vation, there are still many more million acres that can be developed, but if we do not make up our minds to develop it fully there is a sturdy little race not three weeks' sail from here that is being pushed into the sea through want of space that will probably come and do it for us. Therefore, we must have the population necessary to develop the country, and that means that loan money must he available at low rates of interest.

I am not afraid to say, with the Leader of the Opposition, that here is a scheme that justifies the expenditure of £20,000,000. 'rhis is an ambitious scheme.

I know, of course, that the Government have taken a certain amount of this Bill from the policy enunciated by the Country Party, but I should not care if ''Billy the Black­fellow'' brought it in so long as it was brought in and is for the good of the State of Queensland and its people.

. The fir h t few years on the land is the period when the Agricultural Bank-I prefer to call it by that name-can help the settler. Later on when settlers are firmly established, it is an' right for them to transfer to trading banks. We should be glad for them to go to trading banks so that the money they repay may lJe used to help the next man who comes along, preferably a young Quecnslander.

I hope that the Treasurer, who is in charge of the Bill during the absence of the Secre­tary for Agriculture and Stock, ·will accept some amendments from the Opposition, especi­ally in ,-iew of what I said previously, that the Government were elected by a minority vote. I <lo not say that in a sarcastic manner, hut simpl:r to re1l1ind hon. members opposite that they should talrr notice of the Opposition.

I >mnt to suggest that in addition to the public officers to be appointed to the board there be at least one outsider on the board-­some responsible retired fanner. Whilst ! have every faith in officers of the public service I do not believe in handing over any of these boards wholly and solely to the public service to administer. 'rhere need be no partisanship about this suggestion. Get the best man for the job, someone who has been1 through the mill and who knows all about the business. Do not let applications be held up for periods of 14 to 17 weeks. I know that officers of the public service do their best, but I ]mow that these matteTs should be expedited and given quicker consideration. The Bill, to my mind, will not only be of assistance in the areas I have mentioned, but also in the l;van­doan area, with its undulating acres of briga­low and belah that need improvement. Quite a number of young settlers, and olf1 settlers for that matter, require help to increase the carr~·­ing capacity of their land.

Side by side with increasing the produc­tivity of the soil we require a duplication of the railway line from Toowoomba to Oakey, to carry the traffic through the gateway to an(] from the 'West, so to speak. I hope the Minister for Transport will take this matter into consideration. It would not only give employment to many of our people, but he the means of expediting the transport of li ·:c stock and produce to marl,et.

The Treasurer: That will be helping rural development'/

lUr. YEATES: Yes. I intend to gLe my support to this measure. I hope that wh~n we arrive at the Committee stage of the Brll due attention will be given by the Govern­ment to amendments ]Jroposed from this side of the House.

lUr. PLUNKET'l' (Albert) (3.34 p.m.): do not know of anybody who has taken part in the development of land, or has been asso­ciated with land of any kind in Queensland, who will not extend a welcome to a Bill of this sort. The rural development of a producing State like Queensland deserves serious con­sideration. I "-onder if we, members of this Queensland Parliament, realise what the development of Queensland really means. Only the other ilay a Bill passed through this House which had for its object orderly planning. I do not know of anything that calls for mme planning than the settlement of Queensland-I mean its permanent develop­ment. This Bill sets out to do that.

The work is not the work of a year or two, but must extend over a long period. The method of (loing it may differ from time to time as conoitions alter. Climatic, contour of country, and water reRonrces must be con­sidered b9fore >Ye shall get permanent develop­ment of our land, and by that I mran that the people \Yho settle on the land shall remain there. It is idle to speak of development when people remain on the land for two or three years and then leave it withont being­alJle to make a living_ That has happened in manv of the other States and it hns hnppenc'd in onr own.

\\T e are boasting· we are going to do some­thing on a hlrge scale. l'iTe ]mow that queens­laud can produce many commodities th6' growth of which has not yet been attcmpterL Tu the dev2lopment of this State there should be a planned scheme extending- over man:v years, one that will be fostered and ade­quately financed. That finance should l1e of such a sort that the interest charges will not break the back of the men and women who undertake to do the work. The people of to-r1av will not do what the old pioneers dir1. · T have hearrl a father sav to !Jis son, ''When 1 >ms a young fellow r" rli<l this and that." The son has retorted, "You were an old fool to do it. I would not.'' And they will not. Yet it might be a good idea to '1ean1 fronY those who have toiled on the land for many years.

The idea of the Bill is co-ordination ami we have been tohl that that means what it says, co-ordination. I give my appro~al to a Bill that endeavours to do somethmg to

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill. 297

dcn>lop the lands of Queenslancl and make them produce more than they do now.

Certainly something is being done in this direction. I refer to work now being done at the Queensland Agricultural High School and College at Gatton. Hon. members haYe referred to the improvement of pastures and similar things but they do not know >Yhat is going on at that college at the present time. 'rlwre are two specialists deYoting the whole of their time to research for a winter grass suitable for the climatic c-onditions of Queensl~nd. In the winter the grasses in mnny of our districts fail anll the investiga · tions are directed to finding suitable grasses for winter pastures.

Water is OllJe of the first essentials for suc­cess. In this House some three years ago 1 snggesteu the granting of cheap loans for thn provision of water in farming areas. And '"hen I say water I mean water right at the homestead, not 3 or 4 miles nway. The Government would be well advised to make cheap money available to dairy farmers for supplies of water. In a hot dimate such as we have in Queensland water is of first importance. I have no objection to the con­stitution of the proposed bureau. It is to consist of representatives of tlnee very important State departments, the Department of Public Lands, the Department of Agricul­ture and Stock, and the 'freasury, but the Government should have on the board also two men with practical experience. The hon. member for East Toowoomba has alrcadv made this suggestion and there should be n~ <liffiulty in getting such men who would work in harmony with the officers of the il<'partments.

I take it that the underlying motive of the Bill is to endeavour to prevent the exodus from the country to the city. \Ve want people to remain on the land. The farmer's son reared on the land, for instance, should be induced to stay there. \Ve must, then, give him hotter conditions. The Government should see to it that those people are given access to such modern facilities as electric light and power, because thev are essential if 'We are to develop our fan~s. Not many miles from Brisbane great success has been .achieYed in irrigation simply because electric power has been brought within the reach of the farming community. Wherever the GoYernment intend to develop and increase production on the land electric power is ('Ssential.

I hope that when this bureau sets out to do what is proposed in the Bill, and once the people are settled on the land, it will not continually harass them by issuing pin-prick­ing regulations. If there is one thing that helps to kill a man's ambition when he is out in the country working all hours and under all conditions to make a success of his life, it is to have forced upon him regulations tell­ing him that he must do this, that, and the other thing. A man in an isolated position resents it, especially when he feels that he is dependent on his own energy and knowledge for success. Once a man is made to feel that he is being hampered rather than encouraged

he will walk off the land much quicker than if he was left alone. If this bureau does all within its power to inculcate in these people the feeling that the Government are doing their utmost to help and encourage them instead of hindeTing them, then much good will be done for the State.

It is from that point of view that I am pleased to support the Bill. As I have said already, you cannot expect to do all these things in one day, or even one year, but I hope that those of us who are here in 10 years' time 'vill have the satisfaction "Of see­ing the great development, the increase in population, and in production that have taken place as a result of the passage of this Bill.

JUr. RUSSELL (Hamilton) (3.45 p.m.): As one who represents purely a city elec­torate I was greatl;v interested in the remarks of all those hon. members who represent country constituencies. \Vhilst I recognise that the fullest development of our primary production is one means of oYercoming the precent economic situation, I point out that there are :1lso other ways of achieving this objecti>'e.

\Ye have already agreed to the passage of a Bill dealing with the control of construc­tional activities, and I take it that the Govern· m~nt, if they are to be true to their promise, >n ll endeayour to bring forward some legis­lation for the encouragement of secondary industries. This measure is framed for the purpose of co-ordinating those activities con­trolled by the Government, and the semi­g~vernment bodies that may be brought wrthin the ambit of this Bill. It is that principle with which I am in accord. We have already expressed our agreement with the m<'asure except that there are certain dangers in some of the proYisions of this type of legislation. The hon. member for Isis has mentioned one, that is, that the power and authority is to he placed in the hands of the Minister whilst the other high officers of the various departments concerned are to have their powers unduly decreased. I should be indeed sorry if this Bill has that effect, because the men who haYe served long periods in the service of the State and whose advice is of great value should not be relegated to obscurity. I ~hould much rather see their authority maintained, with the Minister retaining his present undoubted right of veto over any action they contemplated.

Another danger that I foresee is that the Minister, under this Bill, will be endowed with tremendous power. "\Ve voiced our oppo­sition to this principle when dealing with another Bill. It is dangerous to vPst such enormous powers in the hands of a man who merely with the consent ·of the Governor in Council will be allowed to carry out pro­jects that will involve the expenditure of vast sums of public money. (Government laughter.)

The Premier is rather facetious about this. We have had this exemplified in the past in other directions. All I am anxious to see is thn.t if it is decided-and I dare say it will be decided-that the Government should sponsor large schemes that will bring about greater rural development, and if those

298 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill.

schemes involve the expenditure of huge sums of loan money, PaTliament will be consulted. I think it is our duty to point out the growing evil of vcsting enormous power in a Minister or a Government department. The Premier assures us that we need have no fear, but power is given to the :Minister to exercise undisputed control over this huge department, which eventually it must become if the policy is carried out in its entirety, and that con­trol will permit of the expenditure of large sum·s of money1 merely ivith tlw consent of the GoveTnor in Council. That is a danger that I foresee, and I think it is my duty at this juncture to point it out.

I take it that one of the main rlnties of this bureau will be the making of a com­prehensive smvey of the iYllole of Olir primaTy industries, to ascertain what difficulties they are suffeTing from and to endeavour to Temedy defeci s and anomalies, and at the same time to bTing about a greater development of all our primary production. I dare say also that a function of the bureau will be an investiga­tion into the possibilities of the inauguration of new payable primary industries for the employment of a greater population in the countrY. The hon. member for Albcrt mcn­timwd'that it is our duty to cxtcml to country dwt~llrrs sonl'e of the amenities of the citr, :mdlmk<s we rlo that, it does not matter wha+ legislation we put through this House or how good our mcth·ods arc, we shnll not check the drift to the cities. \Vc know ven· well that agricultural life in particular is 'a life of 'lrndgcTy, and that it is llifficult to nt+ract boys and young men to nunl occupations. It is s;1id that owing to the low ]JJ·iccs ruling for our primary protlucts the farmc1· is not able to pay, for labour employed by him, the remuneration offcreil in the cities. l~ven in Now Zealand, which has nJways been held up as the acme of perfection in rnral <1cvelop­mcnt, theTe is a big exodus of men from rural occupations to works controlletl by the Goyern­men t, owing to the high rates of pay offered by the GoYcrnmcnt to men on constructional work, partieularly the eonstruction of roads. That cannot be stopped unless we can offer similar attrnctions to the people io stay in the eountry.

\'\e know very iYel! that t11e wage th2 farmer pays to his hands is go,-erned to a large extent by the prices hoe receives, and it mnst be the duty of the bureau to find out if we can infprove not only the lot of the farmer but also the lot of his employees, by more intensive application, by the appli­cation of new principles, and by casting oir all slipshod methods of pToduetion. We have a long way to go in this State before we anive- at the smnc stage Rs has hecn reached by New Zealand. Ne-w Zealand, of ctlurse, has the big advantage of having a regular rainfall, which we ktve not. As against that. however, in this State we have mor<' fertile land nml bigger areas. It is astonishing to see the success that has been achieved Jw N cw Zen Jan'l fanners with some of the poorest land in the Southern Hemisphere. You will see there grass and other crops on miserable soil that is kept up to a high state of fertility by the application of manmes.

I take it that it will be the duty of the bureau to give a helping hand to all engaged in primary production, to see that we bring about more intensi,·e cultivation by the adop­tion of modern methods to agriculture and kindred inrlustries. I admit that pTimary production is the foundation of our national \Yea1th anrl welfare. It is not the sole source of our wealth, but it is the foundation. Owing to our vast a rea ancl our sparsf' popula­tion it is impossible for the people of Aus­trnlia to absorb the nroducts that are grown in this country. -

vYhile we know that there has b2en marked progress of late years in eYery branch of· rural industries, we nre somewhat uncertain as to the futnre. Almost every nation in the worltl is bringing about a system of what IYC might cnll economic nationalism \\-hereby each country is endeavouring to become self­supporting. \\' e sec that tenrlency to-day enu in Gnat Britain, where year by year lm·ger b·aets of land arc being put um!cr agriculture. \V e see there also a big growth in the production of beef nnd rork, mH1 oven in canned fruits, a business that iYC thought iYns controlled by America and Aus­t>-alin, a J,ig ndvance has been made in Great Britain tmnnds the preparation for market of fruits grown in that country. TheTefore, we l!!ll-e to set our own house in order all(1 make prO\·ision for a time ivhen lower prie.rs may obtain for our primary products. \Ve know what has occurred in comwction ivith the slump in Great Britain. in the price of canned fruits. The hon. n1e1nber for ~Inr­rmnlm \Vill agree that the pineapple gro\Yers. nre in a ,·en' pm·lous eondition in Querns­lanil to-rlnv lw<·ans:> tll'' on•rsra 1 ·nrket is not at all' pTofitablc. 'l'here has been ~ big decrease in the price there because of owr­prodEction in America. That is only rmc feature of the situation as I see it.

So that ive may find that these oversoa mar­kets i;ill become less and less year by yPar and we must take steps to meet the s'tnation. IY c mnst keep on producing so as to retain the people in employment, but we nmst finr1 oversea markets for the surplns productfJ. It is idle to think that iYC arc going to get nnv extensive markets in contincntnl eoun­tri~·s. Thcv all seem detcnnined to cm lov their oivn ])opnlation in usefnl work and t~ l;eep others out if they possibly can, which means that we shall be forced, as we ha,-e !wen foreell in the past, to rcl:; mort:' on the ma.rkets of the United Kingdom, which han• lwea our hest mark-,ts in the past. \Vith that in view, and also the probability of a re\·ision of the Ottaiva Agrccmeat, w!1irh might be to the detriment of Austr~lia '''' m:ty rlncl that Great Britain will he compelled to lHflkt~ S0Jllt' modifiration of the agreement in order to bring about some appeasement between herself and }~LtrO')ean nations, nnd to brin" about some rapp1~ochcment with the Unit~r! States of America. So that it seems to me that iYC shoulfl apply a more int<'nS<' system of production to onr primary iudL\S­t~·ies. 'rlmt is where, I think, the main fnue­tions of this Bureau of Hural Development lie.

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Go-ordination of Powers Bill. 299

I said just now that up to the present our primary industries had made rapid pro­gress. I presume that our main primary industries are sheep, cattle, sugar aml dairy­ing, leaving out fruit-growing an'l forestry. After all, forestry is an inclustr:y that is really indigenous to tlw soil and onr policy should be to preserve it for all time by replanting as fast as we take the trees out, and to bring a good deal of our inferior land 1mder the growing of pine.

Wool lws always been looked upon as the sheet anchor of Queensland. It has gone through very many vicissitudes and has been attacker! by hon. members dpposite who have ,Jerlared war on the \Yool kings. It lms been looker1 npon really as a milch c·ow for the Govcrnmpnt. It has had to su'bmit to all sorts of embarrassing legislation anil 1lespite the fact that to-ilny it is mPnace<l by the growth of the synthetic wool industry it has kept on its f,et fnirly well without very much outside assistance. Here is an industry that we must protect to the fullest. I trust that the Minister will pardon me for offering the few observations that I propose in regarc1 to this very important industry that should be taken into consideration lw the new Lurenu. I recommend thnt haviilg regard to the interests of the public, we must give the wool grower fixity of tenure.

At 4 p.m.,

Mr. GLEDSON (Ipswich) one of the panel of Temporary Chairmen, relieved Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Mr. RUSSELL: A sympathetic adminis­tration of the Land Acts should be extended to those desirous of acquiring land. I pro­pose thnt there should at once be a removal of all anomalies and inequities in rail freights and taxation. I do not sec why this industry should be penalised by having to pay such excessive railway freights as it pays to-day. ·wool is looked 1<pon as a commodity that should cany the heaviest bnrden in freights, whereas the industry should receive as much consideration as any other primnry industry.

Research work to combat the blowfiv and other animal and vegetable pests sho;ld be taken in hand. Money should be provided on reasonable terms to encourage the erection of dog and rabbit-proof fences, ringbarking and the provision of better water facilities. There must be an improvement to stock routes and rail farilities to save stock in times of drought. \Vc should enileavour to keep at a high stan­dard flocks that have been built up at a great expense over many years. I think that demanils by Crown tenants for additional areas to ma.ke their holdings reasonable living areas should be acceded to, if possible. We should bring about a greater improvement in ron ds in order to make holdings more acces­sible. I prOIJ'OSC also that special assistance be given to growers in those parts of the State that experience difficult drought condi­tions. If means like these were adopted we should bring about an increase in the sheep population of this State. New South Wales was quoted this morning and despite the explanation offered that that State was more

suitable for sheep-growing than Queensland, it must be remembered that we have a greater area in Queensland and there is no reason why this State should n~t _carry ~t least 50 per rent. more sheep than rt rs canymg to-day.

'rho cattle industry is allied to that of sheep­raising, and Queensland to-day is virtunlly the only meat-exporting State of the Common­'Yenlth. This industry has gone through mnny trials and I think it is gGiterally conceded tlmt the standnrcl of our herds has deterio­rated somewhat. Some serious endeavours should be made to fatten store cattle in suitable districts in conjunction with mixed farming. \Ye ·shoulil grant to the lessnn of cnttlc holdings special conccs~ions in the shape of secure tenures ancl when' IWcc-ssary rental rcdnetions. Queensland is c1estined to he a very important cattle-producing State. The tin{e is not far distant when it should be able to supply the needs of Australia.

\Vo have made ,ome wr:y fair progress in the sending of chilled beef to the United lGngdom. 'l'hnt businc~s is onl:y in its infancy Lut some better system in the handling of cattle will hnvc to be brought about to prevent hruising, which must seriously affect the returns. IY c wore told a few years ago that this bruising resulted in the loss of many thousands of pounds to the cattle im1nstry. l think encomagement should be given to the fattoning of stores as part of mixo'1 farm­ing in suitable districts. If this was done we should eliminate brnising a great deal and be able to gd better results than >Ye are to-day.

The sugar industry is receiving very liberal treatment from the Fecleml Govern­ment, hut it seems to me that we have almost reached the peak in production. The fntnre of this indnstrv is not ven- secure. It is ecmtcnded that ;ve cannot YOrY v ell do better than we are to-day, as the efficiency reaehed in tltc industry is very high. I nm wondering "'hat is to happen with our northern lands if it is found necessary to reduce the pro­duction of sugm·-cane. I suggest that inwsti­gation be immediatel.'' maile into the possi­lJility of growing other tropical commoditieB in the ::"Jorth. To-day we are importing large quantitie~ of tropical proc1ucts from the DLltch East Indics. To-day we have an unfavourable trade balance with them. There is scope for the establishment of trorical industries suit­able for Queensland and the time is ripe for an investigation as to the possibility of r.;rowing tea, rubber and man.Y other tropical ~nd sub-tropical products th;:tt we now import.

l<'ortunately the dairy farmer has been hav­ing a fairly good time, owing to the better price of butter in the United Kingdom. A fe\\- days ago the hon. member for Dalby made a very pertinent remark in regard to pastnres. It will be conceded that not only in the dairying districts, but in the pastoral districts also, we should pay attention to improving pastures. By the cropping of the grass :year after year by sheep and cattle the ingredients of the soil are being taken out and nothing is being returned. Many areas have, in consequence, deteriorated. Too little attention is being paid to this matter. The proposed bureau should investigate it and

300 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Go-ordination of Powers Bill.

see what can be done to bring back our pastures to their former high grade.

A few moments since, I compared Queens­land 'vith New Zealand and it is noteworthy that in that Dominion pasture improvement has received H'ry great attention. vVonderful results ha,-e been achieved by New Zealand farmers by harrowing and manuring. "'e have had a vioit from a New Zealand farmer who made some very scathing comments of the dairy farmer of Queensland. I do not blame our dairy farmer, because he has gone through many vicissitudes and I am sorry to have to make the admission that the majority of them have had a very bad time indeed. Naturally they have no funds from which to improv<• their holdings, and if we desire to encourage the dairying industry as we should the Government must offer some financial aiel to these people to encournge them to bring their pastures up to a proper standard. The New Zealand farmer to whom I refer stated-

'' ImproYemcnt of pasture was a sound economic proposition. One farm of 264 acres in Kcw Zealand was able to carry only 40 cows before it was sown with grasses and top-dressing ,,.as practised. Tbnt was 18 ycnrs ago. To-day the same farm carried 1'64 cmYs, 4 horses, 264 ewes, 330 lambs, ancl 100 pigs.''

That bears out my previous remarks that in orclor to make provision fm· any slump in prices we must culth·ate more intensely ami use more up-to-elate methods in order thnt t.hP, f:1rn1P.r l'~!ll g(lt fl better result fron1 the san1e or a sn1allr1 area.

It has been said that '"e should encourage the inauguration of small inigation projects. From Coolangatta nort]nyards to Bundabcrg there m·e a number of freshwater streams run­ning to ,,-astc, and it must not be forgotten that in Queensland after a good season y,"e may get a drought, yet no preparation is made to combat the effects of it by conserva­tion of wnter or fodder. If '"0 desire to presen-e this industry and keep up supplies­and that is a most important factor on the overseas market-these two questions must be tacldrcl and investigated right away. There is no reason 'vhv those freshwater streams should not be co"nserverl for r1ry times ancl the farmer encouraged to embark upon more intensive cultivation by the improYcment of the land and the pasture. These things will take much money, but it will he money ,,-en spent. \Ve shoulcl conccn:trntc on the good areas in an effort to bring al1out greater pro­duction rather tban force men to go hundreds of miles from the centres of populntion to do pioneering.

The New Zealand farmer continues-'' I can honestly say that on my way up

to Brisbane I c1ic1 not sec one farmer improving his pasture. There are thousands of acres going to waste for want of fertilizer and ha'rrowing. T'he paddocks also are too big, ancl much of the grass is allowed to clie and is vmstocl.''

In reading that comment I do not pose as an expert at all, but it seems to me that on all this good land in good rainfall areas and adjacent to running streams intense cui-

tivation must be clone, first, to get Letter results, anrl, secondly, to enable those people who are living in thickly~populated rural areas to obtain some of the privileges and advantages enjoyed by city clwollers. Some of the amenities that we enjoy in Brisbane should be extended to the thickly~populatecl rural areas, because by that means we can make the man on th·e land feel more con~ tented with his lot, ancl this in turn, must have the effect of stopping the drift to the cities.

I take it that this bureau will attempt not only to deal with the lending of m'oney for the development of farms in 01:der to increase production, but will carry on rese:n-ch work in other directions as well as in irrigation nnd watcr-consen·ation projects, and J strongly urge that one matter to wh·ich it should gi;-e serious consideration is soil erosion ancl the cleYastation of our forest areas. I was in the countrv a. few weeks ago ancl I wns thunder-struck to see what erosion had occurre,l iu that area since my last Yisit there. Beautiful hills that wer"e onee clothed in dense scrub are now absolutely rlenucled of trees, a!l(l the heavy rains that occurred some "~eeks ago cnusc1l Yast qnnnti­ties of soil to he washed into the riYcr an•l carried out to sea. In manY of our coastal areas in particular one may" sec where trees have been cut ilown on the tons of our moun­tains null either pineapples or bananas planted; then at the end of the few yoaTs the whole place has become devastated through tlHJ act.iuu uf Lurrenlia1 rains anl1 consequent erosion of the soil.

It is perulinr that in th·is country one of the first thoughts of the many of our earlier colonists -who cr~,n1e fron1 Europe, where trees arc jealously guanlcd for various purposes. such as the restriction of the effects of frosts antl use as for wind-breaks, was to cut down every tree within reach. "\Ve have only to travrl along the railway line to see how desolate the country is. Some years ngo "·e had a visit by a member of the Empire Forestry Delegation, who told us that what struck him most 'vhen trawlling between hoTe" ancl Gynl'pic was the desolate look in the eyes of the cmvs. On a broiling hot day there ,yas not one tree for them to l'est under. That" is typical of most of our farm land. Public conscience must be awakened to the need for" the prcscn-ation of timber.

"\Ve haYe only to look at the clevastntion that has occurred in other countries of the world through the action of storms and rains. Along the Mississipi Valley, it is estimated thnt one-fourth of the cultivated lands have been renderc:l useless bcranse of the destruc­tion of the protectiYe trees. TLe annual estimated losses of organic matter from the cultivated area of this Yallev reached the enormous figure of 322,000,0.00 tons. In Canadn, nearly 225,000,000 acres of farm lancls are in a similar plight because of tree­falling and ploughing up the prairie lands "·ithout regard to their protection from wind and rain.

The same thing is going on in Austrnlia. In parts of Australia tile advance of the desert has become high.Jy threatening. Since

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill. 30I

the occupation of Australia by Europeans its desert areas, already of grE'::tt magnitude, have increased by 6,000,000 square miles, and it is causing concern for the future. We know that this process is going on year by year, and we see the gradual growth of the desert. That can only be rectified by means whereby stock will not be allowed to depas­ture continuously on those lands, bec::Luse with the constant cropping of grass and herbage and the cutting clo1vn of trees our country in the West is becoming of less value year by year.

I merely mention those things to show what snbjects this new bureau should inves­tigate_ lf it is properly and sympathetically managed it should do an immense amount of good for all these primary industries, and if \Ye can relieve our primary industries from the fear of the future and let them believe that despite any approaching slump in com­modity prices that may occur, with new methods applied to primary indnstry they need not have the same fear as they other­wisE' woulr1, we shall have done something worth whik_ It is our duty to place our industries on the soundest possible footing, to avert any fnrther c1rift to the cities and to see that· the incomes of the people in the country are not diminished but rather increasc<l ani! that they deriYe a fair return from their labour and are able to pay fair wages to their employees.

In the main, therefore, I support the Bill ~nd as a city man I can as',,urc hon. mem­bers that we arc all intCTcsted in th? progrcs' of our rural industries, knowing full 1wll that if th~y are put on a satisfactory basis then the town industries that we hone to ostablish-proYidcr1 the Government 1vill -ado]Jt um policy in that regard also-1rill be established anrl that they \Yi!l prosper; ani] that those two methods of attack on the economic position, togctlwr with the Govern­ment's programme of ymblic works, will pro­vide for the men and women now out of work permanent aml profitable employment.

Mr. DEACON (Cunningham) (4.21 p.m.): In introducing- this Bill the Government lun-e the intention Qf consolidating the means in existence for gi1·ing financial help to primary producers. To hear all that has been said on both sides you would think that there was going to be a great improyement and that much more monev was going to be avail­fdJlc than preYi.ously_ I hope that the Government are smcere. Thev have so many conYictions for insincerity t"hat I find it diffic,ult to arcnpt their word for it.

The Treas:urer: You were only here three years, and your conyictions were many more. You \Yere a habitual criminal as far as political sins were concerned.

lUr. DEACON: The Treasurer admits himself that he is a breaker of records in thn t line_ His record is no better than mine, if it is as good.

'l'here is nothing wrong with the consolir1a­tion of the bodies concerned if it is intended to give greater assistance than was afforded by their separate operations. After all, it is

easier for one body to say ''No'' than for three or four, because each separate L' ., ',, wants to l1o some business and has to give a reason for its existence, and if you have only one body, to give a third of the total assistance now given would be a good enough reason for its existence.

The whole thing depends on the amount of money that the GoYernment is going to make avaibble_ The naming of the department is nothing. The consolidntion of the other bouies into one is nothing, unless that bo<ly is going to get the same amount of money as was spread over them all before. 'rhat is where I find difficulty in believing that the G01·ernment arc sincere. I can only hope so.

:\Ioncy is the nwin thin15. 'l'he details of the Bill are nothing unless there is a desire that it should improve conditions by way of making more money available to enahlc primary pror1ncer;; to increase their pro­duction.

Of course, in some ways increasing produc­tion may mean just the reverse of help. Some men on the land are np to their limit of the production the market will abso1ib. The others who come in only serve to make them all the poorer. That is, if you double the number, there is not a, li\-ing for all and the monev is wasted. 'l'hcre are directions in which the Govel'!lment can give further help, but, after all, the help giYen by the Government to primary producers in the way of loans is a very small item compared with what is given by private companies_ Most of the business at the present time is done by private b::tnks anrl financial companies. Take them out and the help that the Government have rendered or can render uncln the Bill is a Yery small item_ It would not help :1 great rleal in increasing- production or helping the country generally.

There is another point. ~Will this money be nvailable to the Government~ At the present it does not appear that there 1vill be a great deal of loan money aYailable for a while. T1w maTlret is tight; evc1·y financial authority says so. The Government have not said so. Perhaps they think that the position will be :1ll right, but they may find it tight­they may find it difficult to get the money. Then when it comes to shutting down on these lending authorities the fact that there is only one m1thority may help them out of their difficulties. Perhaps that is their motive in introducing the Bill. Knowing th::tt there is going to be a great difficulty in getting money they think that they will find it easier to shut dmYn on one body than on three.

Generally, the Bill ought to be an improve­ment because it should be quicker for appli­cants to get a refusal from one body than to have to go from one to the other and get a refusal all round. Instead of having his business done in one day under the proposed scheme it now takes him three days to get "No" from each one. (Opposition laughter.) The new scheme may be a saving of time to the applicant, and in that respect the Bill may be an assistance to the primary producers. They ,,_.ill be able to go back home quicker;

:302 Rural Derelopment, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill.

they "ill know their fate earlier. They can then do their best to carry on without help, \\ hid1 many of them ha Ye to do to-day.

Neither the ::\Iinistcr nor any other GoYorn­llJent member has sail! very r;mch about the impro\'cments that the Govenu11cnt arc going to n1,\lce. The Bill merely proviucs for a con­soli<lation of GoYennnent departments. ~What me !hey going to do ~with the men who are not mmtc,,U If there is to he an improve­".!Hent fcv·:f'l' 1ncn will lJc rcf}nircfl to carry out the \\Prk of one institution than were rcquireu for three. \Vhat IYill l1e done with the other lllell' 'l'hc Treasurer has not snid anything al1ont tl>·;t, nor <lid I expet·t him to sav nnv­thing. IV e shall hem· nll about that later on. · Perhaps they will l1e placccl in other dep.trtmcnts. At any rate, there is to be one <1Ppart rncnt. instenrl of tluce awl that is an 'improvement. However, Y\-c have not been told hv the Tre:.surcr or anv other GoYermnent member that a gTeater amount of money is to he marlc availuhlc through the 'rrcasury as acho.ncc~ to people ,,·ho could make use of it, hut we shall know more abont that later on. J t:an only hope that hon. mcm:bcrs opposite lww nforme(l and that they m<>an to do some f!,'00(1 hy this 1neasnre.

.\fr. JU""TEL (Keppel) ( 4.:29 p.m.) : If the Hill menns that a greater amount of loan mon< ,- i~ to be made aYailable to farmers :tt no· greater charge fol' interest than to-day, thr·n J wlwlehearteclly Sl•. •ort the measure. T hope, hoiYevcr, that h_v the, •le of debentures the borroYYCr v;ill not be enl!ed upon! to pay "n inrreasccl rate of interest.

Rinrc the present GoYPrnmcnt were returned to pw' er in 1932 a tremcnclous amount of money 1ws l1een spent in city areas, for instance, on the Stanlcy RiYcr Dam, the Kan­garoo Point bridge an1l the ""'[ackay Harbour.

The Tre,asllirer: What city is the Stanley Hi ver Dam in'?

Mr. DA.NIEL: It is just outside the city of Inswich, but it is being constructed ostensibly to serve the citv of Brisbane. It is osten­sibly for the city and not for an inigation project. It was really built, we arc told, for flood preYention purp~ses, and I doubt whether the water stored by it will be used by the people of Brisbane or rps>Yich for many yerus to come.

A great deal of money was spent on innumcrahle water reticulation and sewerage sehemes. Not that I ha Ye anything against such projects, but I maintain that the country careas have been veTy little r1eveloperl in the last 20 years. 1 doubt the State's ability to stand the brunt of all the monev that has been spent in city areas when so little has been spent in the wealth-producing part of the State. I doubt if the tlnee biggest projects­the Stanlcy River dam, the Mackay harbour, and the Kangaroo Point Bridge--will directly lllcan one halfpenny more of wealth to the ktate. The Mackay harbour will not mea11 that one pound more sugar will be produced in the M ackay district, as I understand 1 he mills in that area are already crushing up to their peaks (I am reminded that they are really beyond their peaks). The Kanga­roo Point Bridge will not bring one penny-

worth more of wealth to the State. It will only mean the saving of petrol by motorists \Ylw IYill travel over the bridge from Kanga­mo Point to the Valley and who, incidentally, wiil be made to pm. a charge for the privilege. Hncl that money ·been spent in ringbarking in the comttry "·e shonltl have had some IYealth produced in this State.

"~ustralb consumes about SO per cent. of t lte bed it protlnccs. If the population of AllStralia increases by n million or so in the next clcade or two, I rloubt whether lYe shall ]!l<Hluec <'nough beef iu Australi~t to meet the tlemamls of Australian people, let alone send meat ovNscas. The GoYernment by r1uicken­in~· the runll clc\·elopment of this State conlcl bring real wealth into the eommuuity.

Tilt• :\fiu;ster on the initial stage of this n:n snid that it IYould be the moans of initintin;,, n scheme by which the Crown would he :1 ble to !).'ivc nn impetus to those industries tk1t '' el"e wo1·th promotin£Y. He IYent on to ""' lain how, hy promoting the growth of birc1 seccl anrl snnflo\Yer scPrl in controllecl m·cas. wealth woulcl c0nw lnto 1his State. The )1011. member fm· AulJign;~• pointed out th·:t if 1hc growth of sm1flnwer srcd 1vns :•llov:<'rl to lw nnconh-ollecl tlwre YYOlllcl be little return for tlw crop .

Tmt<'ad of frittering awav the energies of GnYernmcnt <lerm'tments in tlw conh·ol of sPeh omnll Proierts. T eommenrl to the 1\finister the ;,,ncti~otntion of nn indnsirv which is but in ih infnl!rL I refCT to the cotton industn·, 1vhieh is proc1neing onlY a pm·t of 1hr <•otton lint reqnin•cl by the spinners in Austrnlia.

Tlle ~ef'retllTV for J,nbom· llr''d Jni!nstrv: Cot" 1 flH-~T0\n~TS nre g-ettinrr ronsir1ernb1e assist­~nF·'' fro:n tlH:. Goyernmrnt.

~Ir. ])A:-.IIEL: Yes. the inclige,nt cotton­grtnYer. l nm reminded of what the member fol' C111111inghmn s:1id of the grouping of lt''llling auth~oritie-; nnrlcr one henclinl!,'--it was easier for one authoritY to say "No" than foT tlnee. At •lw l~1st Local Prorluccrs' AYsodation conference in 1~oc·khamnton it was rointerl ont by one speaker thrrt wl;ilst he was inclebtccl to the Agricnltuml Bank and could :::et no further loan from it, he YYas able to go to tho Depm·tmcnt of Labonr m1fl Industry and get as much ns he wanted, within limits.

The Se-crf'tary for Labour and Imlustry: We are not as generous as that. Are you opposing the system?

llrr. nA~IEJ,: Not at all. It is indeed an excellent system, but I want the Government to help the industry further because there is ample room for such help. I give the Queens­land Labour GoYernment all the kudos they deserve for assisting the cotton industry to such an extent that within three vears of 1920 we had 80,000 acres under cotton instead of J 60 acres. Unfortunately the Government have given little assistance since that date, and the industry will not be the success it should be, unless i-rrigation is applied to it. Throughout thP cotton-growing districts, which are largely con:fined to the Fitzroy River basin in the Central District there are innumerable points at which irrigation plants could be installed if the Government would help the growers to buy plants by granting

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Co-ordination of Powers Bill. 303

them loans at lovY rates of interest and on long terms. In fact, I go further and urge upon the Government that they instal 20 OT

30 ur even 50 such systems with the co-opera­tion of the settlers, as has been done at the sugar cxpcrhncnt stations. A fanner is ask~d to grow certain type~ of cane and use certam kinds of fertilizers. Much good is done and it is a great boon to the industry. "Were the Gov·ernment to adopt such a scheme in the cotton industrv a tremendous" impetus would be given to it: Much of the land upon which cotton is being planted is scrub land cleared in the main by indigent persons who receive a loan from the Department of Labour and Industrv on the securitv of a lien on their crops. 'r urge the Miniitcr in charge of tl1is Dill to CJnsider seriously assisting the cotton industry, lJl'rnuse I believe that if it was extended to such an extent that all the cotton piece goods now imported could be manufac­tured in Australia >Ye shoultl hav-e very little or no unemployment within the State.

As I said at the outset, if this Dill vv-ill more easily enable the primary pl'oduccrs to gd adv-ances at a. rate of interest no gTeatcr thn.n that at present paid-I prefer n lesser rate-and rcpayahlc oYer n longer period, th0n the Bill has my wholehearted ble8sing.

'!.'he 'l'RK\SURJ<:R (Hon. F. A. Cooper, Dremer) (4,<:1,0 p.m.), in reply: When moving the second reading of this Dill I endcm·ourecl to set an example by touching only upm1 those things that it was 11eressrory to ckal with, but hon. membeTs of the Opposition hnYe, I will admit within the limits of the Dill, touchell upon m·cry subject that cmwei,·abl:v could b~ c1iseussPd on iL It is said that ev-en a worm will turn. I am no worm, so I have cYer:v l'ig·ht to turn long before cn•n a wonn, nnrl if-I am n little long in my reply I hope the House will unclerstand that it is 1Jceause of murh that has been said in this debate.

The I.cader of the Opposition got back to the old trouble that obsesses him-the lack of financ<'. lie made some remarkable state­nwnts rrganling the mnnC'y made available for rural ckn•lopmcnt. If I heard him ronectl_y he snicl that s:mwthi11g round £30,000 a year only is expended that way.

?IIr. Mal! er: No, last year.

The TREASURER: He meant that last ycnr no.ooo \\':18 f'X[1CIH1ec1 ~ ThC~t statement was rather astonishing to me bernuse I hnv-e in my hru1<l the Financial Statement mncle by the TrcDsmer last vcar. It shows that the fGllo>~ing expenditur'c vYas allocated from Loan Fumls-

Land Settlement :E'ore:-:;tTY \Vater Supply nnc1 Irrigation Agricultuml Dnnk, Rural

Assistance

£ 219,720

84,2110 ] 3,000

220,000

Those vYcre the allocations. The Agricultmal Bank alone exceeded thnt 0xpcniliture by £-14,000, yet the hon. gentleman snys that from ](,rm money only £2·0,000 vYas made av-ailable for agricultural dEsclopmcnt. 1f the hon. gentlemrtJI vvould turn to page 21 of the

Financial Statement he vvould find that in the rebates alone this Govcmment allowed £1,822,57 4 in all the departments of the State in "hich they could make allowances to rural pursuits. Yet the hon. _members oppos1te seEm to think that nothmg whatever has been done.

lt is this wrong impression that hon. mem­bers opposite will persist in endeavoming to give to the people with regard to Queens­land's position to which vvc must take very strenuous objection. One cannot raise the slightest objection to fair dcbnte, bHt s~ unfair was the debate of the Opposition that the hon. member for Cooroora felt compelled to protest against the absunl, in fact, against the inir]uitious statements that were made vYith regard to the State of Queensland. I was pleased to sec that the hon. member for Cooroora stood up nnd severely castigated his leader, and the hon. members of the Opposi­tion for the veTv unfair attitude they \Yere taking in this de.bnte with respect to Queens­land's financial position and its position as a pTimary-proclucing State.

Jl'Ir. JUaher: What page is that on about tho rebate~

The TREASl:RER: On page 21. The hon. member will find-

'' Eail11 ny Department concession·,--Rebatos of and reductions in freights

on vYool, starving stock, and fodder, stoTcs stock, lead ores, flour, bran, and pollanl to N orthcrn ports ... .''

1 hefS the hon. gentleman's pardon. It is oYer fiyc years. That is £:250,000 a year at least, yet the hon. gentleman says that nothing vvhnteYer has be0n clone for rnral pur­suits. It is statements like those to which ""e mmt object.

The Lcad0r of the Opposition ha" been getting himsl'lf into a ieniblc mess over the last fe1v we. ks in the matter of figures. Ever" since hr has bren in this Chan-lber he has lJeen using one old set of figures time nncl ngain, :md it is nearly time that ]]() put up n. nC\Y c>l'y of ''Oh, give 1ne nesv fig'nrcs. I cnnnot go on using the same that I talke,1 ef nine sessions ago.'' If rmyone t~1l~0s the trouble of looking up the speeches made by the Leader of the Opposition he vYill find that yenr in and year out the same old song, cut of tune, started in the wrong cle£, and entirely a IYay from the subject, is the song that he has been singing on finance iu this State ever since he has been attempting to criticise its finances. Tbat is what the I.cader of the Opposition has been doing over the years. Ail he has bcc11 doing has been to get a few figures together, throw them in and sa ,I', '''I' hat is financinl criticism.'' He has \;ec:n as wide of the mark in his criticism as he was about irrigation on the l\'ilc. With an insufficiency of kno•Yleclgc, he has attempted to tell this House that something over £1 o,ouo.ono has been spent on the Nile in constructing a magnificent irrigation system. \Yhy, £10,000,000 m1s not enough to construct the minor channels that hav-e been made.

~Ir. )faher: Rubbish!

304 Rural Development, &c., [ASSEMBLY.] Go-ordination of Powers Bill

'l'lw TREASURER: The hon. gentleman lmow& it is not rubbish. If he knows anv­thing about it he knows it is not rubbisl1. He ought to know that for the last harrage, or the last dam that >Yas constructed, the ('Ontraet alone was £13,000,000, OYer £100,000,000 have Loon spent upon this scheme in modern time.

::lfr. Jlfaller: You have got the Premier's interjection incorrectly.

The TUEASURER: I have not. Over £ 1:),000,000 1ms spent upon the construction of one dnm alone, ::mrl there are four dams and two barrages, and altogether that scheme has eost over £100,000,000 and on it the int0rest charge is nearly £5,000,000 a year.

Jlr. JUaher: I will bring my authority into the House to-morrow on the Committee stages.

The TREASUR;:;;R: The hon. gentleman may bring his authority, but his authority (~nnot contradict my authority, which shows all the details. -

."\!r. ::Uaher: You are just echoing the Premier's statement, aJH1 echoing it incor­,·eetlT.

'J'h~ TR.KlSI::RER: I am not. I can give the <.1etails for the whole of the construction right through. As we have plenty of time, J IYill give the hon. gentleman the details so th8t he \rill know what they are. He seems to donbt mT word. As a matter of fact, the <·onstruction of this system began something 1 ike 4,000 years before Christ.

~Ir. ~Iaher: I am talking about this century.

'l'he TREASURER: And within this cen­tury on the construction of one dam over £13,000,000 was spent and the hon. member thinks that irrigation has been taking place on the Nile only since the beginning of this century. In 1833 there was a big construc­tion effort, anrl in 1867 and 1873 and 1895 and 1898 tremendous construction works were going ou in connection with irrigation on the Nile and over £100,000,000 has been spent.

)Jr. ~Ial1er: There was irrigation on the :"rile in the time of the Pharoahs. Any schoolboy knows that.

The TREASITRER: Yes, and all that basic work is still there. The hon. gentleman is as far astray in his figures about the Nile as in his figures about Queensland, and if he is to correct his figures about the Nile and then go from that to Queensland he will be here till Doomsday to overtake the mistakes he has made in his financial criticisms.

~Ir. ~Ialter: I will put my authority into the witness box to-morrow.

The TREASURER: The hon. gentleman may put many authorities into the witness box. I can put better authorities, and I am nfraid that his would not win the case.

One cry of the Opposition all day has been the sla.ckening of agricultural production in Queensland. Victoria was helcl up as a model, so was South Australia, of what has been done in agricultural production. The

whole of the attack has centreri round the charge that C.Jueensland is Lackward whereas the rest of the States arc most forward in i his matter. I wonder if hon. members took the trouble to look up the statistics prepared by the Commonwealth Govermnent 'I Tl1c volume is there in the library for anyone to read and to studv and if hon. memberR would turn it up they will find some figures in regard to agricHltural employment in the ComlllOn>Ycalth. 'rhe statistician gives the number 'of males employed in agriculture, because of the c1iflicultv' of saying how much farm work is done by" females. Taking the four m·ain States--

EMPLOY11El\'T IN AGRICULTURE.

:'\rew South Wales Victoria South Australia Queensland

] 913-14 61,525 51,9:l2 34,1]1 33,302

193;3-36 42,204 35,926 80,096 45,878

Yet Queensland is a backward State in agri­culture, where that lwndmaiclen is allowed to languish! Those arc not my figures, but are the evidence I put in the witness box as to the assistance given by the GoYcrnmcnt. to agriculture. In travelling to the vanous States of the Commonwealth, the Mecca of hon. members opposite as far as their argu­ments are concerned, they take precious goocl care that they will return.

Mr. ~Ioore: We clo not want to live in Mecca, we only take pilgrimages there. (Laughter.)

The TREASrRER: The hon. gentleman talks about taking pilgrimages to :Mecca, but I am sure there is really nothing they might leam thcl'C that might help them in any way. I fim1 that the agriculttue of this State is a most fascinating subject, as I saicl earlier. 'l'he hon. member for Wynnum might haYe his attention drawn to that, anrl so might the hon. member for Nanango. These things are interesting: the Leacle1· of the Opposition macle a tremelHlous song about wheat and \Yhat had been <lone for wheat. and he was definitely and justly and severeiy rebuked by the hon. member for Uooroora.

::i'Ir. ~Ial!er: That is not so at all.

At 4.47 p.m.,

::\Pr. SPEAKER resumed the chair.

'l'l1e TREASURER: The hon. gentleman omitted to take the 1937 figures, which he could have got if he liked, for I have them. The area of land under wheat ancl the number of bushels produced were-

191£'5 1937

Acres. 93,000

434,055

Bushels. 414,000

3,749,443

'l'he hon. gentleman went on to say that nothing whatever has been done for ~wheat. 'rhe Main R.oacls Commission, whose expendi­ture we do not take into account in rural deYelopment, or use to meet the argu­nl'ents of hon. members, has opened up roads in the Dalby area into blacksoil wheat coun­try. It is all ficldle-dee-dec to say that nothing has been done by this Government in that regard. (Interruption.) I am afraid'

Rural Development, &c., [6 SEPTEMBER.] Go-ordination of Pou·•Jrs Bill.

that thp hon. gentleman will have to eat his 0\Vll \YOTt1:-:.

X ow let lll<' r',enl 'dtlt sugar production, nHl a g:lin I take 1915. The shaft has been­

I really flatter it b~- calling it a shaft-the rlart at this Goyen1ment has been that we hm·e done nothing to h~lp agriculture at all. Tn 191.5 "·e produced 1,152,000 tons of sugar r·:me, l111t in 1936 the prodnction had grown to 5,112,000 tons.

Jir. Deacon: Not one llon. member oppo­~ite has ewr ploughed a furrow.

The 'l'REASl!RER: That is all that the hon. nH'mhE'r knows. I can tell him thnt not OllC hon. member on this si1k has cYn r1eserterl r1 furrow, bnt there are quite a number of hon. members opposite 'Yho would l1aYe bi'en much ·lJctter if they had not deserter] the furrow. It is a great thing· to g••t in n furrmY nnrl stick to it, but do not .~et in n Tnt or if you do don't stiek ther2. Hon. m c•mlwrs opposite cannot distinguish hetwcPn n. fmTow and a rut.

Tn 191 :) this State prolluccd 2~1.000 lh. of tobnrco lmt in 1H36 the rnoduction .lwll grmYn to oYer 2,000,000 lb. Yet hon. members opposite say nothing has been done in this State in helping agricultural production. The hou. member whos2 clC'ctorate bOl'ders on th~· gTnnite helt hacl something to sa:· about >Yhat (~nC'enslanrl h:1cl not done. Let him listen to this: in 191:) this State nrodueed ::H,OOO bushels of apples, but in l93i) the quantity had inereased to 249,000 bushels of 11 pp les. Yet they say nothing has been done! ·r skip the minor things nnd come to somc­tLing now to fcetl the birds.

A Goyernment Member: What about raspberries?

The 'l'REASGRJ:R: I will not say any­thing a'hout raspberries, but I will say some­thing about stnnYberries, for the benefit of the hon. member for \Vynnum. In 1915 this State produe:'d 4,800 lb: of r:mary seed, but in 1935 the quantity had increased to :1,259,000 lb. Nothing done!

Here is the reply to tlw song that was sung by the hon. member for Keppel about t·otton. In 191 i5 Queensland' produced 12,238 lb. of cotton, but in 1H35 the quantity had increased to 20,785,000 lb. of unginnecl cotton. I believe that last year shmw1l the biggest production and the big­gest area under cotton cultivation in the ltistor:· of the State. I haYe given the figures supplied by the CommoHWE'alth statis­tician and I take his word for their accuracy.

The ho11. member for Nanango c,omes into this Honse >Yith a peculiar aspect, an aspect that cannot be of any good to the State. Of all tltc pettifogging imd puny speeches that I have e''er hean1 the most pn11y a111l the most pettifogging comes from the hon. mpmber for N anango. If a banker had sat in this Chamber and listened to the speech of the hor1. member he would haYe gone away with the~ certain satisfaction that he wonld 110t advance one penny to the farmers of the N'anango district, because of their poor tYpe and their poor results. He could come t~• no other conclusion from the speech of

the hon. memh~r than that the farme1·s iu that district were inefficient and were _pro­ducing nothing.

JUr. 'Edwards: I did not use that argu­ment at all.

'fhe TREASGRER: This Government hnve lmilt 11p the very industry that sup­TJOrts the hon. member in his electorate. He knows that the ncanut industrv 1ras built up l1y this Go\'C!'ltment. He ah~ knows that if this GoYcrnmcnt 11id not guarantee the flnancp necrss:uy for this industry it woultl die. If this Government treated the peanut industry as the hon. member suggested we should treat it, I ~an assure you, :\Ir. Speaker, thnt >H' shoulrl be in a particu­larly bad way indeerT. It is nry upsetting indeerl to hon. mE-mbers on this side of the House to h?ar a State like Queensland r1efnmerl as the hon. member for Nanango has c1efamec1 it, and especially distressing to hear him tlefame his own electorat0, and his mYn centre, whieh has be •n huilt up by keen agricultlll'ists with the tremendous amount of mone:v ailYanced bv the Agricultural Bank. In the N anango district about 2,233 applica­tions han• be~'n approYcc1 and £668,000 advanccc1 by the Agricultural Bank. Yet the hon. memhcr wants to make out that the Agricultural Bank has done nothing!

Thir. Edwa1·ds: I did not. I did not say allything like thaL

The TREASURER: Unfortunately, the hon. mcmlJer cannot hear himself. His poli­tical whine has become so much an obsession that he is 1mable to gh'e a straightferward statement as to '"hat has be,~n done bv the GoYernmcnt for his district. ~

The hon. member for VVynnum made the remarkable statement that it '"ould be better if land v,a lues were higher in agricultural areas round thE' city of Brisbane. Hi' has yet to learn, so far as agriculture is con­cerned, that the Yalnc of land is what it will produce. ·whether it is vnlued at £5 or £50, if it will produce £5 that is the value, You cannot make it worth any more than what it will produce, taking into consideration the a.dvanta.ges of markets ,and other factors. And yet the hon. member for VVynnum spoke as if ll'Jthing had been clone for Brisbane!

~Ir. Dart: Very little in the outside areas.

'fhe TREASURER.: Let me tell the hon. member just what has been done. For 1936-37 156 a.pplir::ttions were approved of in the Briqbane city area and £38,000 was advanced by the Agri~ultural Bank. ·Yet the hon. mem­ber says that very little has been clone. Over the whole periocl 4,449 npplications were approYer1 of b:v the Agricultural Bank and £1,277..'120 advanced. Can it be inferred from those figures that nothing has been done~ It seems to be the des,irc of hon. members oppo­site to speak 1Yithont the book-it is their desire to get away from facts for the mere satisfaction of making statements that may itlfiiet a little damage on the Government. '!'he hon. member wants to know what has been clone in his district, particularly for one a.gri­cultmal product. In 1915 there were 90

306 Rural Development, &c., Bill. [ASSEMBLY.]

acres under straYrberries and 946 quarts weTe haTvested. In 1936 there were 196 acres under strawberries and 2'~6,975 quarts were har­vested. That has been done in the hon. member's district .

.lUr. 'Uoore interjected.

Tlle 'I'REASL'UEU: The statistics were supplied by the farmers themselves. I believe that theTe is a great desire on the part of some farmers in this State not to give their full production figures. 'l'l1ey think that if they give full production figures they will be taxed iu some way. It is like the blackfelloYv Yvho will not give a full return because he is afraid something will be put on to him. I have no doubt the hon. member for Aubigny probably a<lviscs farmers in his electorate not to give full information to the police because such information might be used to their detriment later on.

::nr. ]}loon:: If a policeman asks me how manv acres l have under cultivation and I say I do not knmv he then asks me to make a guess and that is what I do.

'file TREASCRER: Be. sure he does not guess below! TheFc figures have been t:ollettea by the sbtistician fOT the State of Queenslnnr1 anc1 I challenge any hon. member to con1radirt them. They haY'e been provcr1 oYer and OYt'i'

again because not only haYc we the exact returns bnt we have ve'l·ifict1 them in cvcrv possible mq. ·

I am satisfied that if this tlehatl• lms rcnalcr1 at least one thing, it is thnt there is an insensate' desire on the part of some hon. members of the Opposition-I exclude some hon. members opposite because tlwy have hcrn goor! enough to c0mc forward and -make state­ment-s nl•ont the benefits, this Dill will gin' to the State :1]](1 the great woTk tk1t has been done in the ptEt-tl;at there is a <lesire on the part of some hon. member"· opposite to create the impression that this GO\'CTnment are not a Government for the man on the land. 1 know of no Government in existence in An~­tralin, or in any part of the \Yorltl, that has <lone more for the man on the land than this GnYernmcut. The Goyernmcnt know that the great necessarv anns of any State arc its primary and sccowla ry pTOduction, and unless \VC Yvin from the soil what the soil is prepa,red to give, and unlcsR we have the right to <1o all that is necessary to win that from the soil, no State can live.

This State has s,l10wn, year by year, decade after <1ccar1e, that it is the best State in the Ydwle of Australia, so far as primaTy produc­tion is eoncernct1. 'rhat is r1uc to the fact that in the main, for the last 25 years, the GoYcrnmeut have had a proper appreciation of the Yalne of primary production and the assist­ance that could be given to it ·within the limits of the State. I can say without fear of con­tradiction that no StntC: in the Commonwealth has done more to assist the farmer in the Yarious pro,blems that face him, not only in diTect help to ngricnlturc, but also in helping him, than this State. '

Motion (l\fr. Cooper) agreed to.

The House adjourned at 5.7 p.m.

Questions.