Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 6 OCTOBER 1938

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Qtwstions. [6 OcTOBER.) Questions. 741

THURSDAY, 6 OCTOBER, 1938.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. G. Pollock, Gregory) took the chair at 10.30 a.m.

QUESTIOKS.

CoST OF 0BTAINIXG AXSWER TO QUES'fiOX.

llir. YEATES (East Toowoomba) asked the Premier-

" \V ill he give details of the amount of £50 ~,,_.hich he st~t~?"d vvas the cost of obtain­ing the infonna tion requirer1 to repl~y to the question asked on Tuesday last?''

The PREMIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, JYiackay) replied·-

" (a) The personal information asked for by the hon. member for East Toowoom'ba in respect of the 3,850 female employees <:on­eerned was not on record in the Public Service Commissioner's Department, or in the various administrative departments. The obtaining of this information necessi­tated the compilation of circular memoranda to departments and sub-departments, involving typing, stencilling, and address­ing correspondence, the despatch of tele­grams to country centres asking for infor­mation, and local and trunk line telephone calls. The services of clerical officers were required in the compilation of returns of. inform'ation received, which had to be col­lated in the office of the Public Service Commissioner; (b) in most cases it was necessary to question the female officers con­cerned as to their domestic circumstances, and in view of the delicate nature of this questioning, this work could not be entrusted to junior officers, and had to be taken by officers in charge. The ladies concerned are very indignant and embar­rassed at the hon. member's efforts to probe into their private domestic circumstances; (c) the estimate of £50 is basetl upon the cost of correspondence, postage, telephone calls, telegrams, time occupied by typists ancl clerks in preparinP" returns and collat­ing information, and particulal'ly the time of the senior officers of the various depart­ments in seeking the desired information to the exclusion of other inYportant depart: mental work.''

TESTS IN FAT LAMB RUSI!\G.

Mr. EDWARDS (Nanango) asked the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock-

'' 1. Have any tests of the commercial possibilities of fat lamb raising on the Darling Do1Yns been carried out oin rec~nt years? If so, briefly, what was the nature and extent of the tests, and what were the results·?

'' 2. Has the Hermitage State Farm at Warwick been considered as a suitable area for the carrying out of such tests~''

Tile SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE AN~ STOCK (Hon. F. W. Buleock, Bareoo): rephed-

' '1. During the past four years 329 pure­bred ram's and 86 pure-bred ewes of British

breeds ancl Corriedales have been distri­buted to approved farmers in this State at a total cost of £1,681 9s. This scheme was initiated in order to educate farmers in the production of fat sucker lambs suit­a b!e for export, to emphasise the advantages of well-bred sires, and to determine the most suitable type or breed for the various localities and conditions. As a result, rams ::ue beco'ning more standardised in size and quality, and more uniform in breed. The :mecess of the scheme is also indicated from returns furnished by farmers, which l>Hve shown that these br.eeds can be pro­c1ucec1 economically on various crops, and ha Ye realised an average of oYer £1 per head at four m'onths of age. In an experiment with sorghum as a fodder crop for fat lambs on an area of 80 acres,- feed was grown sufficient for 1,050 sheep from early Decemhcr to the end of the following June, and lambs by Southdown Tams from merino ewes fatten'ecl on this crop sold up to 24s. 6d. head. Sucker lambs fed on

produced the champion pen recent Brisbane Exhibition, and the

of sucker lambs produced on the Downs is evidenced by success in

securing the September series of the All­Australian Export Lamb Competition con­ducted by the Australian Meat Board. Approximately, 72,000 lambs were sold last year, of which 43,500 were selected for export, and these export lambs are sold throughout the year. Mr. Prentice, of Pres­bury, Cambooya, in conjunction with the Queensland Meat Industry Board, is arrang­ing for a display of approxim'ately 250 lambs at Smithfield,. Lambs are being drafted into three classes- (1) Southdown ~ ( 2) Dorset Horn; and ( 3) other English breeds. These lambs are arriving at the abattoir in small lots from different growers, and are being stored until such time as a full complement is available for shipment. About thirty carcases are in store at the present time, and the comple­tion of the quota for export is anticipated in about one month. T'his display is intended as a reply to the Coleman Report, in which a statement that QueenslaEd was not suitable for fat-lamb raising was based on inadequate knowledge of the industry in this State.

"2. No; the scheme at present in opera­tion allows of sufficient data being obtained.''

PAYMEN'I'S TD MESSRS. GOWER, THIEME, AND

BARRETT.

~Ir. NICKLIN (Murrumba) asked the S'erretary for Labour and Industry-

'' 1. What are the official designations of Messrs. Gower, Thieme, and Barrett of his department, and what are their respective salaries?

'' 2. What amounts were paid to each of these officers in the last two financial years for-(a) Use of their own cars on official business; and (b) oYertime ~"

742 Papers. [ASSKVIBLY.] Personal Statement.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR ANn I~DL'STRY (Hon. M. P. Hynes, Towns­Yil!e) replied-

" 1. (a) Assistant investigation officers; (b) £~30, £320, and £330 per annum rcspectlYely.

''2. (a)-193637. 1937-38. £ s. d. £ 8. d.

:\Ir. Gowcr 126 0 6 ]];) 6 6 Mr. Thieme 116 10 0 138 13 6 :'\Ir. Banett 129 19 6 145 0 0

(IJ)-:\lr. Gowcr 30 4 1 29 7 1 :\Ir. Thieme 22 12 3 28 12 1 :\Jr. Barrett 26 11 10 :1-t 15 11

These oyertime payments were exclusiYely for oYertime worked in connection with the early morning distribution of intermittent relief work pay to the metropolitan police stations on 1!-,riday in each \Yeek.''

Il'DIGEX'r ALLOW AKCES ~·o SoUTH SEA

ISLANDERS.

}fr. ltiAHER (West Moreton): I desire to nsk the Secretary for Health nncl Home .~ffnirs "·hethcr he ·hns a fnrther answer to the following question, "lc·hich I addressed to him on 15 September:-

'' How many South Sea Islanders were in receipt of an indigent allowance from tLe S't'lic in June, HJ32, and June 193F:, respecti'ioly?' ' '

Tlle SECRE'I'ARY :FOR HEALTH AND HO:iUE XFFAIUS (Hon. E. M. Hanlon, Ithnea) replird-

'' The numbers of South Sea Islanders in receipt of indigent allowances were :-.June 1832, 159; June, 1938, 1;51.'' '

PAPJ<JRS.

The following pnpers were laic1 on the table, ancl mdcrcil to bu printed:--

Report of tho (~ueeusland ~.Icat IJHlustry Board for the year 103/-38.

Report upon the operations of the Snh­Dcpartrneuts of Aboriginals, Diam::mtimc Hospital for Chronic Disease·3 (South Jlrisbane), DmnYirh BcncYolent AsYlum .lnchriatcs Institution (Dunwich) I'wn: tiile Home (Ch:nters 'l'o\Yers), Prisons, t~ucensland Industrial Institution for the B!in.l, v'l'est',YOOd Sanatorium anrl Licensing Commission. '

Jicport of the Police Inn~sbnent Boad for the year 1937.

Jiepmt of the :'llannger, Uolckn C<esket ~~rt Union, for the year 1937-1938.

The following paper w.~s laid on the tablc:-

Regulations, elated 15 SeptemhC'l", 1938, umler The Health Act of 1937, entitle:[ The :\1ilksellers Regulations of 1938.

PERSON_\L STATE:\IE~T.

'!'he l'REJUIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, :If ackay) (10.39 a.m.), by lea Ye: I \l'ish to makr a personal statement, Yesterday, :N1r. 8pcaker, I made a statement in the course of my speech on the Budget that :Yir. Golden­stedt, organiser of the United Australia Party, receiYed JlOrtion of his salnry from American oil interests. The hon. m em bcr for Hamilton denied this, saying~

'' :\IL Goldensteclt was appointed secre­tary of the United Australia Party in ::\fay, 1937, and neither the American oil interests nm an;· other interests in Queensland or in Australia hm·e paid any part of his salary. J make that stntement <leliberatcly, and 1 challenge its contradiction.'' 'l'herc is no cyidence nt present ayailablo

that the oil companies are directly intcreste<l in the rnitcd Australia Party. Oil COJll· p--nies, I am informed, usually act through agents o1· pmfc-;sional nominees, but J\1r. Goldenstec1t receiwd in the years 193 7 and Hl:JS an amount of £1,334-£642 of which was paid hy the Queensland Road 'rransport Den~lopnwnt .. ·\ssoeiation Lin:itecl nnd £692 by the Fnited Australia Pnrty.

The QucenslalHl Road 'l'ransport Develop­ment Assoriation Ltd, ir; a registered com· pany, but for ol>Yious reasons has made no profit to rlate. It is established c-hiefly for the purposes of pTOpaganda in the motor interests, am1 the following is a list of clirec· tors ::mcl managers furnished to the Registrar of .T oint Stock Companies:-

R M. Go>Y, company iiirector (R. . Go11· and Co. Pty. Ltd., wholesale merchants and manufacturers, Tm·bot street, Bris· banc).

\Vm. Hall, chartered accountant (Hall, ChMl\\·ick, and Co., accountants, A.M.P. Building, Queen street, Brisbane).

Georg·p Pihnan, earrjer (Pihnan and Son 9

carriers, Regan House, J\larket street, Brisbane) .

. T. :w. :l<'itzgcralcl, solicitor (Fitzgerald and \Yalsh, solieitOTs, 'l'. nnd C. Bnilding, Queen street, Brisbane).

T. G. Y. I,ewis, omnibus proprietor, Lota. K :I I. Tooth, managing director ( Austra 1

:\fotors Pty. Ltd., .\delaiilc and Boundary streets, Brisbane).

L. ,J. T. vVhite, principal (Barm Auto Co., :'\ orth Quay, Brisbane).

A. E. ]'ox, Overland JAd., \Vickham streeL V alley (motor organisation).

IV. .T. Strachan, director, Hmrards Ltd., Adelaide street, Brisbane.

G. H. Green, director, E. G. Eager oncl Son, Breakfa8t Creek road, Newstcnd, Bris­bane.

E. G. Bnger, director, E. G. Eager and Son, Breakfast Creek road, Newtscac1, Bris­bane.

A. Y. Dodwell, managing director, Cham­pion Automobiles Pt:v~ Ltd., Ann ancl Chester streets, Jlrislmne.

T. A. l\fcikle, mannger, Dunlop Perdriau Hubber Co. IAd., Centenary place, Queen street, Brisbane.

Question Disallou·.od. [6 OcTOBER.] National Financial Policy. 743

J. G. I\raillarcl., managing dil·ector, Motor Supplies Pty. Ltd., Pcny street, Petrie Bight, Brisbane.

A. IV B. Dlair, lnt8l·national Harvester Co. of Australia Pty. Ltd., Roma street, Brisbane.

G. E. Hohoydc, ::\Icintosh Motors Pty. Ltd., r cSlllOnd Chantbers, ) .. ,Ielaide street, Brisbane.

E. \Vithers, manager, Goodyear Tyre and Rubber Co. of .. \ustralasia Pty. Ltd. (:\I otor Supplies J~ty. Ltd.), warehouse distri]Jutors, PelTy street, Brisbane.

Th0 <lose association betiyeen these people and the United Australia Party, ~llrough :Mr. Goldenstcdt, is obvious.

It '.i·ill a ls:J lJe rem em be red how bitter! y the Opposition in this Parliament contestccl the ~\rotor Rpirit VcnoOJ·s Act, and that it was dwllcnged in the High Court by the American oil interests.

Whether the United .\.ustralia Party is being used h:· the Queensland Road Transport De,-elopment Association Ltd., or vice versa, can. he left to any intelligent r:erson to deCide.

QUES'IIOX DIS'ALLO\YED.

::\frr. 8PEAE:Ell 's RULI:":G.

3fr. YEATES (l<Jast Toowoomba), pro-· cecding to giYe notice of a question relatiw to tlh report o£ the RoYal Commission on the RaihY[l,\- SC'rYiccs. "

)fr. SPEAKER: Order! I have the; impression, \Yhich I will confirm later, that the lam. member hns nlreacly asked this ques­tion dnring this session.

The Premier: Twice.

lUr. Sl'IU.KER: While the Clerk of Par­liament is Yerifying my impression, it ma~: be as ,,\·ell for the lion. member for E'ast Too,,oomlm to undcrsbncl that once a ques· tion has been asked dnring the current session it cannot l1e nskefl again clnring the same session. I think 1 his is the sccoi1ll time thr hem. mcmbcT has askel1 this qnestion.

'l'ile PREJliiER: I rise to a point of order. I \Yish to point out that the report o£ the Royal Con11nission on Raih1 av SeT vices is a departmental report to the Premier, not to Parhament. J t lws to do with the efficicncv of dcp:ntmental officers in chnrge of deparf. ments.

JUr. l~Iaher: It cost over £2,000 of public n1oney.

lli1'. SPEAKER: Ord~r! It is a matter for the GoYernmont to llecWe \Yhether it will release the report. I am only concerned with the Yalidity of the question ~Yhich was asked.

cUr. Yeates: We shall hear about it later on. (GoYernment laughter)

1\Ir. SPEAJIER: I find on investigation that the question of which the hon. member for East 'foo1voomba gave notice this morninP' has already been askecl and ans\rercd thi~ 'iession. 'l'hcrPfore, it will not be allo\YCd to r:•110:1T on the business-sheet.

XATIOKAL FINANCIAL POLICY.

RESC11P'riO~ OF DEBATE.

Debate resume<l from 29 September (sec ]'nge G:l7) on J\Ir. Larcomhc 's motion-

'' That this Parliament is of the opinion,­

'' 1. That a definite nnd long-range n;ttionnl finn:ltinl poEcy, ha\'ing for its ohjeet the on1erl;v planning of the develop­ment of the Srates of !he Commomrealth, and the economic expansion of Australia gcnernlly, is urgently necessaTy.

'· 2. That the Lorrn Council, aeting in f'o>operation , ith the Commomr0 :llth B3.nk Boa{·d, should aclopt such a finamial policy, nncl also ohtain the funds necessary for thL' l'm·po,,,es as set forth, having due ;eganl to the nwint<:'mmce \vithin each Sbte of souncl finaneinl eontlitions.

'' il. 'rlwt a cop;v oi this resolution be for\Yanlc-.1 to the Prime ::\Iinister of the Commomvcnlth, :m<1 to the Premier of each st~·te, for consitleration. ''

}Ir. 1't.LLKER (Cooroora) (10.45 a.m.J : "When this debate \Yas ncljomnorl lnst Tlmrs· llay T \Y:ls sl'tting forth rcasnns v.-hy the policy sngg·estr1l in this 1notion regarding :1 reflppor­tionment of loan money shoulcl not be adopted.

J also ]'Ointefl out that CYCl' since Queens· lan<l has been a sop:uate Stnto the Go\'ern­IHents haYc hn(1 a long-range policy of \York. I also incliratod that under existing conditions this State, hn,·ing such a small population, it \YfiS not · ~·isr~ to spend an enonnons an1ount of loan money in one centre of the State, and that it should be spreac1 oYer the whole area in order to gh·e i he 1na.xhunrn stilnulus to rlo1·elopmcnt.

The motion moverl by the hon. member for Roddwmnton is of wry little value. It \Yas undoubte~lly brought fonvard with the object of crrating the 1mpression in the minds of memhers (Jf the Loan Council that Qncens­lanrl wns entitled to more loan money.

The hon. member gave reasons for his opinion nm1 he confined himself to giving tho'c reasons; but tlw seconder of the motion, the hon. member for Cook, dealt with the ques­tion of unemployment and the need for put· ting people in wor~L The Premier, who also supported the motwn, gaYe no Tcasons wh;v we should have a long-nmge finamial policy. Underlying the \Yholc of his speech was the question of giYing more money to the States for development woTlc There are many reasons why large bonowing should not be intl ulgec1 in.

Refening to the scheme promulgated by Dr. Drmlfieh1 for providing a water supply for the whole of the K orth-west country, I am of opinion that it conlil be carried out, but the work 1rould necl1 to be spread over at least 10 years in order that there might be sufficient time to obtain the necessary amount of loan money. The im!>rovement in engineering facilities and the labour-saving devices that arc being continually ilwented would have a material effect on the cost of the \York.

74-4 National Financial Policy. [ASSEMBLY.] National Financial Policy.

It is becoming the settled policy of )._us· tnt!ia to float internal loans, but if this policy is persisted in iYc shall not be able to ge1 enough money to carry out the enormous iYOrks t!Jnt are 11ecessary. As I pointed out before, internal ioans :ne drawn from a pool that is supplied by the profits from the businesses in Australia and the savings of the people, :me] as more is taken in loans the less is left to help in the development of inclustry. lf 'H~ obtaine<l o\ el'scas loans to ralTV out our pniJlic works, that iYonlcl Jeaw a wid"er fiehl in the ccnmtrv frolll iYhieh seeondarv industries eonlil get· the money necess:u;y: for theit 'lcvelopmcn t.

Y cry careful COllsicleration should be given to the question--whether iYC shonhl pursue the policy of o1ltaining mo1·e and more loan tuoncy. I11 the oli1 clays an amount of !:01 ,000,000 or £2,000,000 a year iYas enough to <·:.nry out de•:clo]nnent work to proYidc Pm]llovment for men who were out of 1mrk. l)ui·ing· the big· drought, for instance, soine­t hing lil<e £1 ,nnn,ooo was enough to provide \\'Ork for the tmcmploye<1. In times of pros· perlty it is wise to reduce onr borrow]ng for <leYelopmcntnl purposes. If >Ye continue hOlTO\Yi1lg 11l0l'P 111011ey, ana 0111' population remains ab(Jnt the smne as it is, the tirne is HOt far distant ·when the country iYill find it d iilienlt to remain soh·ent. \Yhen one con· 'iders that the public debt of this State is nppTOxinwtely £124,000,000 nnd that the population is small and that adrled to this is a tremem1ous CTOwn liability, one realises the enormous burden that the people haYe to carry. The only way to overcome our diffi­<·ulty in this respect is to incrensc our popu­lation rapidly. [t is said that it is nbsolutely c·ssential that large numbers of people should he settled on the land in this countrv. The Secretary for Pnbli~ I"nnils, >dwn s]Jcaking un the Estimates for his uepartment, ;yiJl point out tl13t the1·e is no av~tibble lnncl 011

which tu settle these people.

At times it ii'Ould appear that he is exag­gerating, mving to the fact tll3t the area of our closely settled land is so smull in com­parison ,.:ith the gront tracts of land that ean lJc \YOrkcd succ-essfully on1y on a large Rt:alc. ThL·l'C is thcrcfon~ a tcndC'ncy to overrntc the possibilities of land settlement. In any case, an cuoru1ous sum of n101H:y

'.Youlc1 Le required. 'The expenditure from loan monC,I' would prob.tlJly require to he incTeasccl to £G,OOO,OOO next yeaT to tr:· to ''olnJ the_ unemployment problem, and it will he a long lin1c before ·we ever solve it.

During the past six ye~ns the GoYcnnnent h'n'e rlerl £:?1,000,000 of Joc:on money, tnnch -.,,·hic1l h:Js bc0n spc~nt un\YisP1y because it has not lJeen put into procluetiYe work. ;.ruc!t of t1wt mone:v hns been spent on c•J-:ornlous projects such ns the Rtory Bridge, the RtnnlP:v Ili\·er dnm, and tho :.r~ektt~' harbour, >i'hir·h iYill not p:1J for man:. :~( .1.rs to cYen though they ultin1ately may. :I'\ o tbny iYill become, as the Roc1:.:1unnpton T-Inrbour Boarcl is, llopelessly insoln~nt and U1Ltblc to 1ne( ~ its l]~!hi1itics to tl1c OoYcrnn1ent for interest. fn11l rcdenl)l­tion. The Gowmment arc 110t big enough to say to the Hockhampton Hnrbour Board that

it must pay its linhilities. They ivill never prosecute. It is not a small concern like the tnnnwH\' in the :Harooehv Shire. No GoYern­lllcnt, iiTcspcetiye of po.licy, eould over take steps to make such an authority pny up. It is too l•ig a matter and the pec•plp i\'OUlc1 nen•r stand for it.

..:\ long-range policy in finance is quite um,·orka blc•. Sue h a policy so fnr as works :n·c concenwd is c1uite feasible, anc1 has indeed been eanic-<1 out for man;y- years past. So far as iinnnec iR conrcrncd; another GoYern­llteat iYith n r1ifferent i'iC>Ypoint mny be in po1nT next year. I remember that y;hen I first c:mw to Pnrlianwnt that there iYas a dissolution of Pal'linment within nine months beenuso the pn1·ty in power weTe not strong enough h C'llT.'' on the goYernment of the c·ountry.

This is n qtwstion of eontinnit;· of ]'OiYeJ', "ot merely of the same pnrty in Queenslrmd, but of continuitY in all the other Pnrliaments of Australia. 'During tho depTession years no continuit;· of finnnce could be arranged. The countr;· could not afford it.

}fr. roll ins: Tl1ere would have been no clepression if it had been arranged.

Jir. WJ.I"Iilm: I do not think it could be arranged.

\Ve hnd the spectacle of our lWtional income declining £200,000,000 a year in tlwt period. There lies the difficulty of maintain­ing our nationnl iucowe. 1\'e must also remember that the present Government have to finc1 £5,000,000 this yenr-an enonnous sum of money-for defence purposes. In other iYorr1s, the people of Anstmlin ,_y;]] LuYc t<l he taxed to meet the defence indebtedness that must occur during the next tln:·ncial :·eur. TJ~cse m·c important factors in any long-mnge financial policy. I again point out that our national income is declining· ancl that the· prices for our overseas products are not ns high as they ·were last year. The clwnces are that the Eederal Go Pl'mlwnt will conto out on the ivrong side of the led geT in the next financial Year. This ii-ili make it particularly awkwa1:cl for all concerned and proba1Jly mean increased taxation.

If the 1929 policy of the r~o~cn Council had not lJeen adopted, Australin might lwve become hnnkrupt. It was impossible to ,,btR.in loan money, and :States other than tlw"e that hac1 !'Cservcs iYould not ha\'C been al1lc t0 canv on. RemembeTing all these things, T nsk ho~v wo could eYer carry out a lon,g-nmge policy of finmwe. At that time all woTks had to be restricted, otherwise the country, including Queensland, iVould have become bankrupt.

It c ·m Le seen hmv clifficnlt the position I';;Js. It iYaS so difficult thnt Mr. :Seullin, iYho IY~s then Primr :\Tinister, nftcr haYing ltac1 it pointed out to him hy the expoet.s from the other side of the woTlcl, for whom he sent, tltR t for e>·ory £1 of Australin 's liJ.bility 1 c had 8;;sets to the vr-lue of onlv 12s. 6l1., found it necossaTy to effect economies, inclurl­ing re<lucing the olc1-3gc 11r11sion to lis. 6c1. All the Sbtes hnc1 to effect economics by reducing public scr\ice salaries. The matter

Sational Financial Policy. [6 OCTOBER,] National Financial Policy. 746

1ras nut a question of party politics at all. At tlwt time there were more T,abour Pre­miers attending Loan Council nwetings than there 1'0l'C anti-Labour Premiers.

1\Ir, ~PE ARER: Order! I hope hon. mcm1Je,·s \Yill encle:nonr to help me ancl the '' Han~ar;['' staff by refraining from con­l·n~ing in loll(l tones. I know they do not mean it, bnt they spl'ak much louder than the)· imagine. It i~ wry diffieult for me to heat and much more ilitlicnlt for the men on '' H:msanl'' to hear what is being said.

}fr. WA.LILEU: The hon. member for Hockhampton spoke a bout the railw:1ys, but r clo JlOt kno\1· what he meant \Yhen he rdcnerl to the inability to obtain loan money nt the time he mentioned, because he, and the pn.•scnt Premier and other hon. gentlemen "Jipositc ·,ycTe :1 Cabinet of I,abour :\finistcrs, ancl no T,oan Council lwd then been cstah­Jisllecl. To1erefore, the hon. member's remarks ronld not haw been dircctecl to any hampering of goYermnental aetiYities by the operations c,f the Loan Council.

}Ir. Larcombe: No, it was a money boy­cott, the Lonclon boycott, then.

:'lfr. '\'LiLKEU: Then let us go a little further. 1f the Government conld not obtain !oan nwney ln those (1ay;-., they \ri1l nc\7 cr he allle to get it under the pn'sent system \Yllcn \Yl' hrrYe a I_.~oan CounciL Therr i.s con­tlusiw ptoof tllat a policy of development coulcl h<>:c lJeen caniccl ont in the days, when t11e1·c -was no Loan Council, because nnY f!Hlonnt of lo~lll n1oncY IYas nYailablc. T1;c :\fcC'ormacl< Go.-ernnwn't had something like £/.fil1i1,000 OT £8,000,000 of loan money, nt the ri1ne to \Yhieh thC' l1on. llH'lnbeT refers, nml wlH''l they ~\Yent out of office, tlH',V handecl owr to the :\foorc GoYernment £-+,500,000, with the exeeTJtion of the ammmt that \Yas lent by thl' ::-.rJ~oTmaek GoYernnwnt to the other 8tntcs for a short tin1c. The j[oore GoYern­ment fcllo\Yed C'Xnetly the oame policy of 1nnldng slwrt-tern1 loans, beC'flnsc they rcalisf'd that the £4)!00,000 that 1ms hanc1ec1 O\'er by the ~IcC"t>rnwck GoYernmcnt hacl to last over the thr·.·P vears for 1rhich the :\Ioore Govern· 1nent 'Ycr2 in office, no n1ore 1noney being aYailalJk. EYel"}'bocly knows that. 'rhese things proYe conclusiYely that a long-range policy c;f public. works cannot he arranged, ancl it ic. not right to attempt to do so.

The l1nn. member for Rockhampton also saicl that 'Thile he y; as Minister for Transport it "as frnmd necessary to close clown certain raihYav works. 'l'here is nothing to stop railway \• orks from going on to-day. The onlv cause for the closing clo\Yn of these IYo{ks c·oulcl be the ahsence of money, but there is nothing to stop a sensible loan policy fl'om heing adopted \Yhereby the Government could bonoiY, say, £3,000,000, per annum­,,·hich \Yonld be a reasonable sum >Yith our population-for the carrying out of develop· ment work that may be needed in the railways.

\\.hill' we are considerinig raihYay,p, We must a],,o giYc consideration to the question of roa,·!s. The present Government's policy of ,]c,·cJopment and finance is not a short-

term policy. It \Yi]] be 20 years before the Ymrk onYisaged in that policy is anything like oomplctoc1.

Defence has been mentioned, and this is a tnat~el' in \Yhieh long-range pJnn11ing has been earned out bv the CommomYcalth. The only conclusion to· be clra\Y!l is that the presenvt system of finance in that respect is the best.

In the om·ly days of Qnccnsl:1nd 's histor~­it \Yas possible to anange for a loan of saY, £5,000,000, ancl the unexpendoll balance ~Yould be hanclocl oYer to the Queenslancl National Bank-··1 think that was the bank usecl bY the State then-to bo used as time went 01~. ~'hat iille money represented :1 loss to the State and the policy was decidedly wrong. It is wise in borrowing to get only the require· ments for a year or a little more. To haYo money lying idle is as bacl as to put loan nwne;- into unproclnctin~ 11·ork or yenturos such as State stations and other \Yild-cat se hemes ontereil into some years ago.

A ehange of GoYernment means a change of policy. By own opinion is that it would ho IYise if all big govonnnental works wore not only ondorc· cd hy a Government, but first oi' all a pprovcd by men \Yho clearly understand their benefits. 'l'hen they could be brought to Parliament, in the same way as a r:1ilway ext cnsion proposal is tabled in the House. 111 that \vay there woulcl bo to a certain extent a continuity of \York.

E::nlier in the historv of Labour GO\·ern~ n1ents loan money \Vas ·very plentiful and it 1, as spent right ani! left. At that time \H'

were giYing >vork to about 4G,OOO um'mployecl, but mneh of that money has been w:1stell on unproductive \York of one kind or another. The interest on our enormous amount of bonowecl money was last year £5,1,)3,000, o1· Yvith exchange £,!,9GO,OOO, or £6 per head of the population. That is an enormous burcl0n for the people to carry, particularly when it is remembered that we are only in our pioneering stages in cle,·elopmental woTlc

~\.11 owr the world rail\Yays arc experiencing serious competition from the roacls, and Governments are building gooil roads, con­crete, bitumen, or macadam. This of course affects the plans ::my Government may ha.-e made years ago to ile.-elop a country by means of raihYays, but it has to bo so because mo(]crn ileYelopmcnts cannot be ignmeil. \Ye in Queensland, however, must realise our responsibilities to the railways. IV e have paid out large sums of money on railway con­struction and \Ye are faced \vith the need for a loan policy to foster other more modern methods of transport. 'Ne must do so if \YC

are to compete with other parts of the IYorlcl.

l'nfortmwtcly, no Govennncnts-unliko private coneerns-haye reserye accounts on \Yhich they can draw for large-:scale contingen·~ cies. J t would be a great boon to Governments if they could. \VJw wn say, for instancc­ftOIY that man has conquered the air-that within a few years wo shall not lose the best· paying pn rt of our Tail traffic-the first -elass passenger t ruffic-bctween the X orth an cl

746 :-v ational Financial Policy. [ASSEl\IBLY.] National Financial Policy.

South of the State? \Ve have no means of meeting such a contingency, but >Ye shonlcl do something in that direction of doing so.

1'he other States hm~c rcduccc1 taxation ami forecast smpluses, but the Queensland GoYcrn~ n1ent are increasing taxation.

Tax:J tion is more ~eve re in Queens] and than anywhere else and I &uppose »e ought not to be surprised to see the hon. nwmbcr for Rock~ lwmpton moye a motion like this. HoweYer, tl1cre L3 no occasjon for it, because \YC haYe always lwd a long-nmge policy of public works, anrl finance has been ;,nangcd from t·ear to ,-ear. Th c Drisbane Citv Council, 'too, has ~·t loug-range policy h1 its ~Yorks pro­gTanln1e, nnd ,,·heneYCl' ll10l'e n1oney is required nn approach is made to the GoYcrmnent or a lo:<n is Jioated.

The hon. memlJer for Rocklmmpton, \Yhrn c;ealing >Yith this subject, said-

'' If my motion is accepted and the proper nutl1oritics in Australia eany out a proper system of financial planning, many import~ ant developmental and other iic·hemcs could be speeded up in this eountry. In Queensland the follcwing import 'Ut >~·ork could be undertaken-''

Xow listen to his suggestions. He first sng~ gcsts '' Y{ater conservation nnd irr-igation.'' 'i'hc Ciorernment arc doing thai to~da;'. Then he suggests, ''Greater land settlement and biatc de•·clopment.'' Are v.e not canying out land settlement to the maximum of our ~~ 1Jiiib ? ·where can >Ye get the first·class land upon· which to settle om· o" n native· born, let alone the millions that it is suggested \YO

shoull1 attract from other cotm~rics'

Then the llon. member suggests, '' Greatrr mnin-road construction.'' Is not the present main~road >vork the maximum that the local authorities cnn carry? They are roncern•'U to~day more nbout the gazettal of State high· 1 ays so that they may get a. reduction in ta:'.a­tion. For instance, the Noosa shire, with an ineome of about £10,000 per annnm has to pay abont £5,000 for interest for main, roads constructiou and hns onh the remaindcY for genernl work, including OY~rhead expenses,

Then the hon. member sugge:,ts-- 'GrcatPr nchanccs to farmers for rural activities.'' Last year nn amount of £i300,000 ·was allo~ cated to the Agricultural Dank am1 at the' end of the financial year there was still a balance in the fund. That sho>Ys that there is enough money, unlcc;s of course it can bQ made cheaper for the fanners and that cheap­ness created a greater demand.

Then the hon. member suggests ''Greater nssistancc to the mining industry. I hayc no doubt thnt if the SecretarY for }fines iVCre present he >Yould say that ·he hac1 been ablo to med all legitimate requests in this connec­tion. As n nwtter of fnct I think the c1ep~~rt· ment has gone a little too fnr in co-opeL~ting with the Con11110lll\·ea1th CtoYfll'llmf'nt and tlying all round Korth Queensbnrl in :111

aeroplane scarchiug for new mineral fielc1s. \Yh,v, th::t country was pros]lectcrl before m any of us were born!

Then the hon. member suggc"ts---' 'UreateJ' t> <lvanecs for housing.'' The report of tho department tabled in Parliament this Y''ar tliscloscs that last year 11 as a recorc1 in tho construction of house•·, and that report does not .inc::lndc the activitic:; of priYntc institu~ lions.

Then the hon. gentleman st:ggests--' 'CrC'ater assistance to secondary in(lnstric~1. '" There is onl,t· one >Yny to help inc1ustr,~- .tnd tb:t is to reduce taxation.

Finally, the hon. member suggests-

'' Greater a chances to local authorit;es to en a 1Jle thcf:\e lJod.ics to cnTy ont ncLC'' -s~tl'Y schcn1es or' \Ynter supply," scwcr~tge. and electric power and light.''

I Yentlne to sav that the 'l'reasurcr hns met ~dl legitinwte requests in that direction. All thcce things nre being ranicd out satisfae~ !Drily, ]Jnyiug regard to the population of the i'ltatc.

The llon. 1lll'lll1Jcr :-tlso suggested thnt- thcro ''as dissatisfaction with the acth~itics of the Con1n1onwealth Dn11k, Out he is labol1l'iHg under a misunderstanding. He implicLl that it >ms bc~nnse there was no definite long~ l'angc illl~tncinl policy and as a collsequencc banks and GoYenuuents "'Cl'e an n11h~1ppy family. HoweYer, the hon. mrmber doe-s not S<'"Dl to understand the real diff1cult:,~.

('l'ime expired.)

}1r.l JJ ACHO::'I"iLH (Stanley) (11.15 a.m.): Belie.-ing that I should be eollfronted with the Mccssity of speaking against this motion, I took aclvnntage ot a fmy moments at my dispos:~l last 11ight to refresh my memory by looking up the speech of the hon. member for l~ockhampton in ''Hausard.'' Perhaps nwny hon. members will Ill' of the opinion that l am guilty of flattery in dignifying as a speech the incohereut utter~ :UlC'c~s of the hon. member. J'\ever in mY life tww I read such ]Jalderdash or 1vaded thi·ough more shocking platitudes. This, ivith a strong c.easoning of unprovoked and unparliamentary Yitnpcration plus emasrulaterl quotations, go to make np the most extraordinary collection of sentences that it has c>~er been my lot to come across. If the hon. member for Rock­lwmpton, ns his speech might suggest, is of a ,-ery poetic disposition, then I am sm·e llC' will recog11isc the figure reflected in the fol­lo,,-ing quotation from Goldsmith's ''Deserted Village'':-

' 1 Whilst words of learned length and thun­

dering sound c\mnzed the gazing rustics rane; 'cl around; And still they gazed, and still the wonder

grew That one small head could carry all he

know.''

(Laughter.)

The hon. member for Rockhampton said that the suhject on >vhich be initiated this dchnte has been a problem for all eternity. LTn]il,e the hon. member, I make no claim to IJeing a Jinancial genius or a heaven~born saint, but I do claim I have more than a 6mattering of arithmetic, some common sense,

Xational Financial Policy. [6 OcTOBER.] National Financial Policy. 747

and the attribute of practical thrift--a trait sadly lacking in the mitke·up of the present Administration and those who have contri· liutc~c1 to our present financial troubles. The hon. mc•mber reminds me of the daughter of n hone leech \dwsc only cry was, '' GiYe, give, gi\·e. ')

l1cing 1 hOIYeYel', of a eharltab]e disposition, [ assume that this motion has no source in im'lnit:·. I cnn only think that underlying it there lll':st lJc some fleep ulterior motive, perhaps tCJ embarrass the Loan Council. In fart, the of the hon. mPmber for Rock-hmnptc,n tantamount to a confession of the c1i·,md failure of his Gonrnment to spend thdr wisely and repl'Ocluetively. Since I o:n <l2 present Govemment have spent S~l,(H1Ji~IO of loan mone;·, ;·rt in 1!1:17-38 the cnrning·s nf lonn \Yorks and services \YCTG

£1 R 1,7 8:3 less than in 1031·32. There was nlso spn~1t in the Ran1c six yenrs £13,698,80:3 from the lTnemnlovment Relief Fund. Still f!Je Go':r'l'lll11ent p~rsiot in their claim that hoi'l'O\'-'ing· nrr> onl~, to be spe:.1t on reproduc­lin' '"''";" ·what a trngedv! \Vhat a tcsti­niOni~l to our financial ·;;cnius'

T1tl' 1un. nlCllllll'l' gli.bly t:tJks of the COln-1110111\"eai+h Gn1·en1meEt, the Commonwealth Bank r>,··rr1, :md the private hanks, hut is ~trang·ely ·ilent so far as his 0\Yn Stnti' Ooyc,·nnwnt nre r·oncPrnciL His outlook is of 11 suretY myopic [dlll cvclopian. He brings to m:· memm"Y the old Quaker \':omnn \Yho snid to ]l('r 1mshnnil--

'' \11 the \Yorld he \Hong but thou and I, friem1 Timothy. and sometimes thou he a littli' 'nung.' '' ·

(LauglLn.)

Ke-eping iu mind this State's financial c-unrlitir•n, to me it seems the height of nrrn­ganee t hn1 any advice on finance should be g-iHll h,· this Rtate to the Test of the Com· ill0ll\YC'[!1th.

The fo1lo,\·ing is ~lll extraet fnHn an article in last ,-,-cck 's Sydner ''Bulletin'':-

'' CuopoT, the new 'l'Tcasurer, has aclmitterl that on .Tune :10 'the Stntc of Queensland owed £125,781,500 gross, mH1 had gum· an· tcccl municipal debts to tho extent of another £22,000,000. ·when his Government took h;nge the gross debt \Yas £110,000,000, and guamntecing of municipal loans and on'nlTnfts wns only beginning. What did Fmg:m Smith say when he intToclucecl his Rtnte DoYelopment Bill? Oh, :·es: ''l'he llirth d the Queensland Labour GoYennnent in 193S heralded the dawn of a new era for Qucenslan(l and Australia.' And the modest man Tepeatec1 it in a 'CouTier-1\fail' article. 1 '

Unless our language has lost its meaning, the hon. gentleman's purpose is inflation, and inflation to no modest degree.

Let me quote 1\fr. :\fcConnack, 1vho, at one time, v;as looked upon as the :\fessiah of the I,abour Pnrty. 'l'his is \Yhat he said-

'' If \H' inflate the credit of the countTy, who suffers most'? 'rhe man who works for wages or ,." salary? I see no hope in so lYing

our Llifficulties bv an inflation of the note i':me. It is all right for the trader and the man who can incTease l1is . turnover. "\lthrmgh in the final analysis he gets more money, it is of less value than before. 'rhe man who \l·orks for a daily wage would be the man \Yho would suffer first and last from note inflation.''

Mr. Hill, the Premier of South Australia, had this to say ou the question of inflation-

'' There are lmnclrccls of different labels on heer bottles, but it is all beer inside. ln the same '.ray inflation, controlled or Lmcontrollecl, is bad. You ma.;· be quite honest about Your intention to control and hegin public "works \Yith so-called money made of paper, hut when it is expended vou ha Ye either to close clown those \\ orks ~1· inflate some more. In either case you will be in a 1vorse position than \Yhcn you began. rl,hcrc can be no argun1cnt about that.''

Jt is impossible to make long-distance fore· casts of the nmount of finance that will be aYailablc from time to time, or at any time. It >vas -onlr the other day that a meeting 0f the Loan Council was postponed and most people noted \vith anxiety the fall in values on tile stock exchange that followed.

A 11 planning of works, public or pri,·atc, should be of a long-range nature; hut, Mr.. Speaker, \VC must cut our coat according to our cloth. It is not a bit of use ha,·ing chmn pagne tastes if iYe only have beer m one~·.

'l'he Somerset Dam, which was C'lnnnenced three ;;·cars ngo and which will not be com­pleted for another six years, is a work of long·1·angc planning. It is a work -of magni­tndc and of the greatest importance to Qucens­lanrl, especiall;· to the city of Brisbane.

To digress for a moment, if hon. members \\'ish to see the beau id0al of a working com­munity I advise them to visit the SomeTsct Dam. T"here (1wells a people, a community of 1,000 souls under happy conditions, 'm'iclst beautiful mountain srcnery.

The Premier: That is an example of forward planning.

:Ur. JL\CilONALn: I have already said so.

'rile Premier: Did you? I did not under. stand that. (I"aughter.)

J}Ir. JL\.CHONALn: It was a case of the blind 1eacling the blind. The conditions of' the people at the Somerset Dam speak volumes for the resident engineer and his officers. Although a gaol was erected there when the 11·ork commenced, it has never had a tenant.

The hon. memher for Cook confuses cause and effect. He states that unemployment is fundamentally the cause of revolution. But 11·honce cmnc this unemployment According to '' Hmwarc1'' the hon. member said-

'' H all the miners were able to olJtain full-time work. , .. ''

\\'ell, ·:.rr. 8pP:1kcr, why :ne they not working full time? The issue of the Sydne:· '' Bulle­tin'' la't week said-I clo not think that this

7-!8 Sational Financial Policy. [_\SSE:VIBLY.] Xational Financial Policy.

excerpt 1vill in an;) way be prejudicial to the case before the court-

'' So .soon as Clll.ployment becomes l'lenti­ful there is a 'strike-complex' in the air:-

1886-Xen· South ·wales coal strike for higher wages; China trade loA.

] 892-X ew South \Yules coal strike for llig;her wages; ,J apanesc tra<le lost.

1895-Ncw South \Vales eoal strike fnr 11ighcr wages; South __ A.Jncrican tradr lost.

1902-Ncw South \\'ales c·oal strike for higher '..'ages; oil fuel propos:tls JWHle.

1PO/i-New South \Vales eonl strike for higher \\·ages; oil fuel iu operation.

Aml so tl1rouglt our history. All t'wse strikes \V ere '\'\·on'; i.e., higher on }lapcr; "·el'l' oLtaine<l. I3ut ns tradf's disoppcnr, all(l -n·itlt them shipping t1·n1~es, the \YCekly wages were less, enu if the (lnil_v \Yagf':, souJH1ed gTeater. \ tintc uune at ~\cw('nst!c \Th<'llJnany 111ines \YCl'c c·losrd, anJ ju other n1incs the ntiner"~ c:ou1r1 onlv obta1n one slii±t a \Yeek. T1Ie shift 1JCn·"c a goo\1 wng·0~ bnt n \Yeck 's ·wage in. 1902 or 1908, would luno lH'Cll far hdtcr.

:.ur. 8P1~AifER: Order! I ask the hon. Inctnber to cunnert his re1narks 1rith th·e motion.

::lfr. 3LH'll0:.'\AI,D: This is in connec­tion with full-time employment, >Yhich I think is very pertinent to jt.

Apparently the hon. mcm!JCl' for Rock­IJnulpton has r1ippec1 deeply into the poets of our language, but he- might have quoted a !i1w of Horacc, '' DulcP <'st <lissipere in loro, ' 7 a j._ rce trnnslation bchtg, '' Svrect it is to pby the fool in due sr-ason. '' Dilbcti<'nlly the l'tcwier tells ns that hs purpose is to I m Ye a Yiri le reo plc in Qneenslaml. I [l]>plall(] his resolution and >~·ish him (1o<] spccrl. .! Ht1nJin: 1Jis c·oun1gcou;, tackling; of tl1c l:.ncin­ployment l'l·oblcm.

Ju coDc1nsion, J\[r. Speaker:> 1et n1e sav that it >YOCI !t1 seem that criticism of t h.e prr,cnt GoYcnmwut becomes hanler as year succccrls :·cnr, llcnnse gradually, indiYic!nally nnrl collectil·cl;,·, they arc bein~ conYcrted to the policy of the Country Party.

Jfr. (East Toowoomba) (11.28 n.m.): I 11·ith a great (!cal of interest to the speed:· marle by the Premier on this motion, a111l J >Yas rcmimlell of a meeting of a club nt whii'l1 conntr:-· and metropolitan me1n hers were present. So1nc -were Yery clis~ sntisfietl wit-h past hr1ppenings, and contenc1cr1 that the spirit of laziness had been exhibited. The chairman, Mr. A. D. ::1IcGill, addressed the gathering, but spoke oYer their heads ant! proved tlwt c\·erything was all right. That is exactly 1vha t has happened in this Chamber. 'l'he Premier is good nt ''putting it OWl''' the people. At times he talks to the gallery owr the hearls of his O\Y!l supporters mul puts oYer a tall yarn. In passing, I might mention thct the l'igmarole with which he mlS\; ered a quc~tion of mine this morniug--

.Jir. SPEAKER: Order!

Jir. YEJ.'I'ES: In order to get it into '' Hansard.''

Jir, SPEAJiJ-::R: Order! I would advise tlJe hon. memh~r that \Yhen l call fp;· onlcr it is to prescr\'e order.

Jir. YEA'fE§: I was speaking-----

:lH.r. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem .. bcr must c'nmcct his remarks with tl!e ;notion ltlHle1· tllsc:nssion. 'Jlhis j,> 110t a u~ll-!lress

debate. .Jir. "kEXTES: This motion was made to

order l.J1· the chief for the hou. mpmhcr for Hockhm;1pton, \Yho is ono of the ran!' an,\ fiie, in order to bnck up the Hurnl Deyplopmcnt Transfer and Co-ordination of 1'01·.en, Hill an(\ the Sbtc Dcwlopment all([ Public: '.Vorks Org:mi"liioll Jlill, both of which are all tal'. ;m,[ nothin. eiPe. c\.ll those words iu their titles coHstitutc nothing mm·e than a play to the gallery.

The Prernier ls ln a n~tstY nwsfi. 1-Il' :111d Lis pn rtY \n?ri' tuo l~1zy to g<-:"t on \Yith tlv· job of tl'anstel'l'i1lg the intennirteut relief \Ynl'kcrs to fn1J-tin1e einploJlllt·nt. }.,our years or 1nore ng-o, could hCI\'e sturtccl on thi~ poli<oJ iu a way 1ustetul of haYil1g'1 thous~uuis---

J!x. Sl'.Li.KER: Order!

}fr. Y:EJ.'l'E§: consider tlMt the tHotion nlc_;YC'd by the hon. 1ncniJJcr fuY Roelc.-hnmpton, '.YllO is a man of flo>n•ry and great oratory-un<l I say this with ~:·;en test 1:cspect-could hnn~ !J<:eu left for a1 ')titll' two :n?~as lH•fore being jutrot1ucC'd. f I llnd .•1l,Ything to do with the m:ttter to-cl:Jy I 'hould atljourn all other business ''O that >H' ,'oulrl nil disrnss unen1p1o,1~1ncnt anc1 cndeayonr t~1 point out wnys of doing something for th2 pcopic \\·ho an-- starYing to-day, for the i:uui1ies of F>ix and se·r-_•n \\Tho arc living in littL• houses.

Order! I hope it wlll th(' hoiL nl<:Inber to lJc rclc-

:Hr. : I shall try again. The LE der Opposition's motion ,.," a rlanm sight hcttcr than the one m01·ecl by the· lwn. member for Rocldmmpton, beeau.~.e it dealt with tl1c CJUHtion as it affects (~necns­l:lnd. \Vllil~t I ndmit thilt it is de·cirnblc that \VC ~lwul'l look at the matter fron1 the voint of view of the whole of the Common­\\ ealth, I do think that >Ye should put our 0\'Tn hollse in order flTst.

The l)]'i!ll'iple conhinccl in the motion i~ nll right, hut this is not the time to fil1 '' Ilall"~rd:' with propagandn, thereby wn~t­

thc money of the people. \\'Len for information he is curbed

is done bY order of the Premier half t.he time~. I do not me~n when ~·on c-!Jeck me, l\fr. Spc1kcr, I do not think tlwt. The Prcnier is the big·gcst political bluffcy that l nn lme,Y.

.i\Ir. HPIUJiER: Order! I hope the hon. member >Yill withclnnY the '"m·d '' l.Jiuf!'er.''

~Ir. YEATES: All right.

Jir. SPEAKER: Order! Do l under­_;nu1 the lwll. lllCJniH'r to \Yithdrnw 9

}fr. : Certainly. I witloclraw tlle \\'Ol'd ' hluffn'' for the present.

i!Ir. SPEAKE.R: Order! It might be as \reil to rcminll the hon. member that 1rhen

National Financial Polic,'IJ. f6 OcTOBER.] National Financial Policy.

the Chair asks for a withdmwal it is the custom to \vithclraw unreseHcclly. I hore tlw hon. member will clo that and will refrain from being offcnsiYc. I do not think he means to lw.

:Jir. YEATES: I do. I withdraw it Lmcon<litionally. I have told you-and now that the l'rcmicr is hnc I should like to say it oYer again-that we shoulrl put our own house in orclcr first. \Vc should put the people in employment before \YC talk about these long-titlecl schemes.

No ono hns mentioned yet fo1· what term this planning is rcqnircll. The Anstn lian Go\·el~nment know their job perfectly. There are better brains in that Go,-enunent than there are here, notwithstanding the fact that I am here. (Laughter.)

:\Ir. Lyons, who has the co·opemtion, I hope, of J\Ir. Curtin at times, should be invite(l to discuc,s these matters, and if this State then can lwln them after \Ye have put our ow11 house ill order let us clo so. I want to pay a compliment to Mr. Curtin in that a few months ago, when he could see serious trou~\le comi11g, he askol1 his supporters to sa} nothm\~ at all about the defence matter.

\Ve have been in a financial drift for tlw last six vears. \\' o have spent about £21 ooo,ooo" aln'ady, and a great deal of it has' been fooled away-put into non·prodnc· tive work, despite what the Premier say·'· l give hiln ercdit for SJ7C11C1ing a certain an1ount ontsirlc the cities. [ ccriainly \Yant to pay him the compliment that ''"hen \\ e \Yero i11 trouble on the Dalbv road I wrote him a rer· sonal letter and he made available £14,000 to help us-not that he shoulcl not have done it and shoul<1 not have done it long ago, bui pel·haps no one asked him until I did.

lUr. Power: "Alone I did it!"

J'\!r. YEATES: He helped me. (Laugh· ter.) That is the spirit of co·opnation. The Premier has been in this House for scncc­thing like 2c\ years <Jnd has been the hcacl of the C:O\"Crnment for six and a-quarter years, and after all that time he comes along now with long-range planning and all these things. I "ant to know "IYhy in the first tlve years of his term in this Parliament he did not think of these things and bring them in as a private member, if he was not in the Ministry. \Vhy \Yait tmtil now, \Yhen \YC bavc any amount of other things to do anc1 31,000 people um•mployed, of \Yhom 20,000 arc bread· 1vim1ers, and only 0,000 jobs offered to thcm9

lUr. T. L. WHI.iams: When do you want Queensland to go ahead~

lUr. YEATES: If the hon. member resigns, the Leailcr of the Opposition \Yill tell him all about it, too. ·where arc we drift­ing I \Ve shall drift along towan1s a crisis if \VC arc not careful. Let me say that I am absolutely an optimist. I believe that Queens­land is the star of the States of Australia, but at present it is badly managed. I believe that the Premier has the knowledge to enable him to do better and that somehow or other there is something blocking him or else he is

getting lazy. I do not know \Yhat it IS. \Ve ~ac not progressing us \YC should.

The hon. member for Hockhampton was talking about Jack of population the other <1:n-. ·Ha sai<l that to the best of his belief tlH~ re .son 'Yas economic and nothing else. \Vlwre is he! T snv that it is a combination of that null seliislu;ess.

Then he 1-rcnt 011 to s(ly it is the c1nty of all Gon;rmnonts throughout the Common· \Yealth to sec that the r:eople have H•cial secmity.

}Iembers: Here he is!

;jir. YEAT.ES The Commonwealtll Govenuncnt have nlreach· looked after tl;-at in their ::\ational Jnst11'anc~ 8dtc1ne.

l'tir. Jesson: That is the last thing that you should mention.

JI.r. YEAT:E§: :Mr. Speaker, would you o llow a messenger to go out to get some hot pies nncl coffee for the hon. member for 1\: ennedy 'I

)h·. SPEXKJ~R: Order! I have already reminded the hon. member that he mnst not indulge in ineleYandes and should refrain from personalities. I ask hon. members on my right who arc baiting him to refrain from doing that as well.

lUr. YEATE§: I will speak from another place in the Chamber. 'l'hc hon. member for Hockhmnpton said that the Corn· mom,·calth Bank Board and the Common. \Ycalth Government were working-I will not say in collusion-but in harmony. The Com· mo1mealth B~mk Board has nothing whatever to do with the Commonwealth Ministry and is not able to dictate to it, despite wl1at he says and wlwt the Premier says, too. I am losing faith in the Premier, to tell the truth. ::\Iy opinion of him \Yas up to 90 degrees, but it is now do\vn to 41. The hon. member for Rockhampton nppcars to be the Government's spokesman in this matter and the Government ~ue np against a brick wall with much unem· ploymcnt an([ a shortage of money. X ot· withstnntling my disagreement with the Premier on certain points, I am prepared to help him to help the families of the unem· played over the transition period. I am pre· pa1:ed to spend two hours a day debating the suh;iect with him. (Laughter.) But he is too conceited to take any nclvicc. The C:ovennn'ent haYe indulged in a lavish expen­ditUTe of money for six years at the dictation of the l"remier. There is nobo,\y else, except peThaps the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock, and ceTtainly no one in the rank and file who would sav ''boo'' to him. If he tries he is told to sit down. All that the Premier has to say is ''I want this.''

:nr. SPEAKER: Order! I have already asked the hon. member to make his remarlm relevant an<l I do not intend to ask him any more.

3Ir. YEATES: I shall do my best. Did not the Labour Government borrow money at a high rate of interest in the United States of America¥ You would know that, ::\Ir.

7i)0 National Financial Policy. [ASSK\fBLY.] National Financial Policy.

Speaker, because you know the record of the Labour GoYcTnmcnt ns wen ns I do. Their poliey is bono"·, spend, nnd squander nll the \Yhilc. although years ago their policy was ''no borrowing.'' That wns the policy in the tlays of DnYy Bowman, a man whom I highly respecter] aml regarded as a friend. Of eourse, I reali·.c' that it is necessarY to bonow •,ome monc~· lmt it should not 'he clone for the ptupo:<es of winclo\Y-c1rcssing such as the Go,·ernmcnt have done, mostly in to\Yns \Yhere there ~:re a large number of electors.

I agn•e with the Premier that the name '' Loau Council'' is a misnomer. I should altn that, a]](] I am a little with Mr. Aruold \Yienholt about the bonowing of money except that I hclieYe. that it is necessnry to borrow sometimes, and he said he woulr1 not borrow at all. 1 must not say anvthing abont the Premier's mnjority-at" all "events, to-day"

Jir. ,Jcsson: It would be a good idea if you sat dmvn altogether.

lUr, ~PKU{ER: Order!

)[r. YKtTES: Hon. members sitting on i11e GoYcrnment lmck benches, nnd the Prc· micr also, tolfl us that factories were progn "ing in Queensland. I haYe found out no1v 11k1t a factory is. Its designation is a shop with four or more employees or nsing mechanical po\YCr. It does not matter whether only one man is engaged in sharpening scissors in that shop, it is clesignntecl as a faetory. These factory figmes published by the Com­momYcalth Statistician in the Commomvcalth Y car Book are obtained from the GoYernment Statistician in Brisbane.

I told the GoYernment four years ago, just n mere common taxpayer with no other title, to get on with the job of abolishing relief work in order to clean up the mess. Unem­ployment relief work was all right as a tem· l'Dl'<.ry expedient in a state of cn!'ergcncy, bnt it shoulrl not have been continued so tkrt the children of this generation grew np in that atmosphere thinking that the system was on the statut0-book for ewr and that it was right to engage in it.

The other day the hon. member for Too· 1roomhn, my estcemecl friend and eolleague, speaking on this motion, said that the Senate was rt party Chamber, although he did not like to see it as such. 'l'he Senate should haYe been a non· party Chamber, just as our Legislative Council was years ago. By the \Yay, I spent a very pleasant two homs writing in seclusion in that Chamber this morning, and it ;·.as quite nice.

JUr. SPEAKER: Order! I am afraid if the hon. member persists in refusing to discuss this motion I shall haYe to ask him to retire to the seclusion of one of the reading rooms instead of making a speech. He is not discussing the motion at alL

JUr. Jesson: He thinks he is on the Budget.

3Ir. SPEAI{ER: Order!

}fr. YEATES: I definitely told the House a short time ago that I desired to cut down

costs. I thm·efore do not desire to speak too long.

I "·ant to saY iu conclusion, and this is ~he main theme of my speech and can be said m thren or four minutes if hon. members on the other side have any understanding-you have to explam things to some of them pnrticular!y some from the North Coast-that this motion should never have been brol\O'ht on to waste the time of hon. members. "rt is u rery inopportune motion. \Ve should haYe been engaged in discussing nnunploymcnt and enc1eaYonring to do something by co-operative eftort to relieve it. Now we hear from the Premier that \Ye are to sit on Fridavs. I do not care if we sit on :B'ridays. •

}fr. SP:EAKER: Order! I ask the hon. member to resume his seat. I han• ,qwned him sevcra I times.

i)~r. PLUNKET'l' (Albert) (11.50 a.m.): I wrsh to say a few words on the motion of t!JC. hon. member for Rockham)lton. It is smular to pre,:ious motions that hon. member lu~s m?';crl_ dunng prcYious. sc'ssions, the object o,f "luc,r rs to ereate the Impression that the Commonwealth Government had omitted to do ~lnugs they ought to hayc clone. I think there 1~ m?re _ po!itical propaganda than real sm:enty bclnnd the hon. member's motion. Thrs GoYcrnment have had ample opportunitY to do >dmt the hon. member has suggested shoulrl be clone by the Commomvcalth.

'l'hc idea of planning is quite sound and Eobody objects to it. The extent to which it :an succeed is goYemcd by the extent to 1Ylnch the people co-opemto in it and the money available. It is very easy for hon. members to say ''\V c should do this'' and "lYe should do that," llllt many of these schemes. n_1ay inYolve millions of pounds and those mrlhons are not alwnys aYailalJlc. \Vhcn money is available 1YC should plan in the mtercsts of the country. vVh v have the Government not tried out what· the motion suggests the Commonwealth slwulcl do: 'l'hey have had a large amount of money aYailable during the past five or six vears and economic conditions are now more or less normal.

It is Yery easy to mo.-e a motion in a State Parlianwnt snggesting what the Common· 1Yealth Government should do, bnt what effect will it ha Ye if it is carried 9 How can it be put into operation? We nre awaTe of the disabilities that "C are suffering from in Australia as the result of the lack of unified action and the absence of harmony amongst the States. Some clay we shall be forcecl­peTha ps quicker than \Ye expect-to recognise \Yhat has been clone in the other States.

The time is long overdue for the simplify­ing of the method of taxation in Australia. The taxation laws govcming industries should be the same throughout Australia. IV e are too prone to compare one State with the other, and the comparisons are generally made from a political point of view. It is all very· well to criticise what the other fellow is doing.

The hon. member for Rockhampton blamed the Loan Council and the Commonwealth

National Financial Policy. [6 0CTOBER.l National Finmwial Policy. 731

(;ovennnent for not making more money avail­'lhle to the States. Hoilccl clmYn, the motion menus, '' Give us the money and we \V ill sp~nd it.''

:Jir. Walsh: Do you contend that the more 'XC p1·oduce the less we shonlil get?

Mr. PLU:'IKJ\TT: I did not say that. 'The hon. member hns placed a \Yrong con­struction on my remarks. 'l'hc motion suggests that if we hatl the money we could do things, l·nt it is the other fello\1" \Vho has to find the money. \V c cannot expect people to give us mcmey to >pend unless we can justify its expenditure. ·when we analyse the 'my in which money lws been spent in Queensland we find nothing to boast of.

A motion such as this is brought forwanl to make it appear to the general public that there is to be wonderful development for the benefit of everybody. First of all, the money has to be found to carry out the development, and to do this it is neccc;sm·y to prove that it \Yill be spent to advantage and that the authol"ity that is to spend it is worthy of trust. The people should also be told wherr the mor.ev is to be obtained aml if it is to be taken out of their pockets by way of taxa­tion. It is all very fine to put fonYnrcl schemes that have an impressive title and from which they are led to expect great benefits, but it may be misleading. In my opinion, under the present circumstnnccs, \Ye are in fact only misleading the people.

'The hon. member is perhaps quite sincere, but I doubt the sincerity of it because I notice on every occasion instead of saying what the Government in Queensland should do he is for ever harping about \Yhat the Commonwealth should do.

The Premier: You have no right to cast nspcrsions on the hon. member for Rock­hampton. ·who are you that you should do that? Y on have no right to do that in this House.

::lfr. PLUNJmTT: I certainly claim that I have rights.

n'Ir. SP.EAK:ER: Order! I did not catch the remarks of the hon. member, but any imputation of motives is highly disorderly.

::IIr. I'LUNJ{ETT: I said this motion hall a political fhwour.

'l'lle Premier: You said half a dozen times that the hon. member for J~ockhampton \Vas insincere for moving it.

l\Ir. PL UNKETT: I said his motion was insincere.

TlNJ Premier: Who are you that you should accuse anybody of insincerity, any­way?

3Ir. Pl,U:XKETT: Mr. Speaker, I am not going to be dragged by the P1·cmicr into saying what 1 did not say. While in this Chamber I claim I haw certain rights, and nnlcss you rule me out of order I am going to claim them.

The .Premier: You have no right to defame other members.

}fr. I'LU::>;"K.E'fT: 'The reason why I say that this is political propaganda is that 011

every occasion the hon. member brings forward a motion for discussion on Private :Me!llbers' Day, it almtys is something that involves the ConmlOll\Yealth Government, and the YYhole ba6hl uf this n1otion, in 1ny opinion, is the desire to use it for political purpose~ against the Commonwealth Government. That may not be right, but it is my opinion. If there i•s sincmity behind it every 8tatc could \York in harmony, \Yith uniform taxation, and 1miformity in Jaws, nncl in a spirlt of eo­operation. If this \Ycre so, much could be clone.

3Ir. Bedford: Somebody has to begin.

)fr. PLUNKt:T'I.': It is no use saying the other fellow is doing wrong and that wo arc going right. 'l'hc basis of this motion is to have more money provided and give Queensland the first opportunity to get it.

:;ur. \Ynlsh: You want more money, too, c1o you not"

:Jir. J'LUXKET'f: I do not want to take money from people ;rho cannot afford to pay it, anrl that is \Yhat is being clone in Queens­bnc1. !'erlmps I shall ha\'e an opportunity of saying something along those lines in the Budget debate, bnt speaking to this motion I say that, for the life of me I cannot see the use of it. 'The bnsic principle mny be all right, but since it involves millions of pounds-and it must, as suggested by the mover-and recognising the amount of money there is in Ansh·alia, \vhy has it not been tTiecl out in Queensland on a smaller scale'/ If it is sound-and it must be sound accord­ing to tlw Government, because they are supporting it-\vhy has it not been tried out here? Is it lJecause \Ye \\·ant to involve the Loan Council and the Commomvealth Govern­ment in financial matters? :E'rom that point of view, I cannot see there is any need for it, other than what I have pointed out.

I did not intencl to speak on the motion at all, because it is useless bringing it forward and haYing it passed.

A Government Jliem"ber: Having regarcl to \That you are saying you would be justified in trying to prevent us from getting money for rural development.

JUr. PLU:'IICETT: I am not. You are going to prevent yourselves getting any money by the "-ay you arc spending it.

The Premier: Everything that your party could clo to destroy credit here, has been done.

JUr. I'L UNKETT: It is all very well for the Premier to be always interjecting. He does not like to be told what other people think. He gets very testy.

TJw Premier: Who?

]Ir. PLUKKETT: You.

1\Ir. SPEAKEl~: Order! I hope the hon. member will address the Chair.

lUr. PJ,UNRET'f: I should like to do so, but I am not going to allow the Premier or

:Vational Financial Policy. [ASSEMBLY.] National Financial Policy.

anybody else to tell me what I should or "iw uiu nm; say, so 10ng as 1 am within the rules of debate. I claim certain rights, and I am going to have them.

llir. Sl'EAI{ER: I shall see that the hon. member ·s rights are protected.

}fr. !'LUJ\"KETT: I did not intend to speak on this matter at all, because I think that the motion is useless. This is not the time to moye such a motion. Even if it was canicc1 unanimously it coulcl not be put into operation because it involves every other Government in the CommomYealth, and the putting of it into effect would require millions of ponlF1s.

l\Ir. IlART (Wynnum) (12.1 p.m.): l rise to oppose the motion that has been moverl by the hon. mcm·bcr for Rockhampton. In my opinion the proposal is merely humbug and hypocrisy. 'l'he hon. member may be sincere in moving it, but 1 believe that he has been guided by principles which, if put into effect, \YOulcl not be in the best interests of the State.

The Government are proposing to carry out certain works and they are afraid that they 11ill not get the support that they desire from eertain directions. N 011 they want the Opposition to support a motion which I think IYill not have the desired effect of remedying the eYils that have been brought about by their mabdministration anr1 the way in which they have expended the moneys that have been available to then1. I 1Jelieve tlw,t by their own acts they have made it impossible for nnyone to support them. 'rhey are responsible for Queensland's having to pay £5,900,000 yearly in interest because so much money has Leen expended in an extravagant manner and in unproductiYe channels. I believe that by using the money in the way they have, they have earned the castigation of financing authorities and they cannot now hope to be suppm ted in this useless proposal.

I mn not here to decry Queensland; I am here to advocate good, sound, and wise aclminstration, a thing that has been lacking in p:nt year.s. To·day the Labour Govern· ment nTe asking us to support a motion the putting into effect of which involves the co·opcration of other responsible authorities.

In recent years the Government have had over £3,000,000 of loan money a year, and I suppose they IYill get their share from the Loan Council in future years on an equitable basis, nnc1 that ought to be enough to enable them to carry on if they would follow prin­ciples of wise administration. Long·range planning may be all right if it is in the hands of a wise Government.

Judging from what I have seen of the Government as an elector for mm1y years, I do not know how anyone could support a motion of this nature. The hon. member for Rockhampton may be sincere, but he has evidently discussed this with caucus, which seems to be of one mind. Whether it is his motion or one handed to him by the Premier I cannot say, but he has been the instrument

through which the motion has been brought into the House.

Jllr. SPEAKER: Order! I hope the hon. member will not continue in that strain. A motion in the name of an hon. member is Pxpcctecl to be his motion, ancl any insinua· tious to the contrary are highly objectionable.

3Ir. nART: Thank you. However, the motion has been put forward with the hope of mising money from the Commonwealth. It appeaTs to me that it is directed towards tell· ing other people their business. If the other States are not capable of looking after their own business this Government are not com­petent to tell them how to do it, judging by the IYay this Government have spent money. Other Governments had long·range projects in years gc'ne by in regard to their borrowings, and they were successful.

The hon. member in his speech found fault with the people who ruled on this earth before Christ. He sai cl there was disorder in those early times, and he speaks of disorder since, and now he is going to put forward a motion that he thinks will give eternal satis· faction. I nm. afraid that coming from a man who has socialistic ideas it will not be of 1·cry much benefit to Queensland.

The hon. member said in his speech that the loan money it was desirable to raise would be used in water conservation and irrigation amongst other things. The Premier has already told us that he has set aside £2,700,000 for tl1at purpose, and a Bill has been put through with that work in vie'.v. I hope that the Premier's proposals in that regard will be carried into effect for the benefit of the people in the country. That part of the motion is provided for, so we do not want to borrow money for it.

In the second place he referred to greater land settlement and State development. That should go on ·without any money from the Loan Council at all. If you give the people rt chance to settle on the land they wilJ do so provided the conditions are reasonable and they see some prospect of benefit in doing so. Since \Ye have had satisfactory land settle­ment in the past, we do not need to approach the Loan Council for money for that.

The next purpose he talks about is greater main ·roads construction.

'l'he Main Roads Commission has had con· siclemble help from 1.he Federal Government from the petrol tax Iiwney and has made s1Jlendid progress in road construction, and I haYe no doubt that if the same mc>asnre of ht>lp is continued ample progress will be made. I give the Minister in charge of the depart· m·cnt, and his officers, every credit for the work. Although I condemn the Government for some things, I must give credit to some public officers and members of Parliament for their enthusiasm in their jobs. I do not see how this suggested long·range policy will improve the roacl·building programme.

The hon. member for Rockhampton also suggested that such a policy would bring about

~at·ional Financial Policy. [6 OcTOBER.] National Financial Policy. 753

greater advances to farmers for rmal acth·i­ties, but they ha1·e been helped to some extent. He also suggested greater advances for hous· b;g. Last year £400,000 was mat1e asailarJk for this purpo.;e and t hG money \Ya s wisely srent. I commen<l the Government for their nction, but aTrangen1Pnts haYe Ueen 1nade fnr n further advance to 1•3 :wailablc this ~-eaT.

~lr. Power: Do you not think that the Govemment would spend more if tlwv could get it~ ·

.il'Ir. UART: That is the clanger. The Go;-ernment \Youlcl spend more but it; would not be spent wisely and the imporL1rt thing in the spending of money is to see that it .is spent to the adYantage of the State and th:<t it earns a fair rate of interest. The hon. member for Hockhampton also suggested that there >~·oulcl be greater assistance to secon· dary industries. That woulr1 be ~welcomed, bnt the help that secondary industries require is in a reduction of taxation ancl not further rtllocation of loan moneys bv the Loan C'onncil. '

Finalh·, the hon. member for Rockhampton suggest eel-

'' C~rcnter a chances to local authorities to enable these bodies to carry out necessary schemes of »·ater suppl;,, sewerage, nnd t'lechic power an cl light.''

The local authorities lurre been provided 1vith the requisite money in the past alJ(l it i& not necessary to ask for a special :1dvancc lru1n tl1e J_.ornl Cunndl for these purposes. It is very easy to spend money and experience shows that the present Government are capable of s1wnding all the moneY that thev can lav their !wncls on. Just as' there arc' waywarc1 dtildren-and some of us nmy have hr.r1 experience of them-there are also 1vayward Governments, anc1 no matter what amount of money is made aYailablc to them, they can find \'"3:''S of spending it all.

As I have already said, the important matter is how to spend the money to ach,m· tage, and we in this Parliament should, as one big family, ~onsitkr the interests of the 8tnte as a \';hole. \Ve should remember that a polic;;' of borro1ving is a matter not only for members of p,,rliament but one for con· sir1eration by the people, too, anrl that they IYill not countenance wasteful spending. \Vhethcr the amount to be spent is £10,000,000 or £20,000,000, the important point to rememlwr is that it should be spent on pro· dnctive \Yorks.

'\Vhat happens if the money is not spent \Yi sely ~ Further taxation must then bo leviecl on the taxpayers to meet the additional inter­est, ancl that being so, I am sure the elcc· tors will not approve of this motion.

I am not ]JTeparcc1 to support a motion ~tlong the lin,es suggcstcri by the hc•n. mem· her for Rockhampton, because the Govern­ment haYe not proved that they are capable of inYesting loan money in reproductive channels. To make more than the usual supply of loan money available to the Govern· ment could be likened to financing a wayward member of a family-it would only lead to useless extravagance.

There is one other matter I desire to refer to. It is a statement n1.,de by the hon. mem­ber for Rocldmmpton wLen speaking to this motion, antl is to be found at page 4,34 of '' Hansard.'' The hon. member said-

'' I was astounded on taking up the 'Courier·Mail' this morning to see that the hon. member for Wynnum advised city men not to go to the country when tl,ey are offen•d full·t"me employment.''

i\Ir. SP.EAKEU: Order! Is the hon. member quoting from the present debate~

1Ir, nART: Yes, I mentioned that fact. The hon. member for Hockhamptou con· tinned-

'' It is scandalous to think that an hon. memher opposite should make that sugges­tion. It is a scandalous tiling that he should suggest that the men should refuse to accept the work offered hy the GOI"el'n· ment.''

Tlwt is an accusation made against me by the hon. member for Rocklwmpton. At no time h:wf' I suggested that strong healthy men should not go to woTk in the country, but I have said that men with wives and young children should be found work nearer to theil' homes. I am not opposed to the scheme of sending unemployed men out to work.

The Premier: Do you think that all sailors should be single men? (Laughter).

3Ir., DJ._RT: This is uoi a question of sailOTs; it is a question \Yhether men should he found \York round Brisbane. Seeing that the hon. nwmber for Rockhampton made this statement, it is only right that I should concct it.

JUr. S.PEAKER: O:rder! From which page of '' Hansard'' is the hon. member quoting?

}Ir. DART: Page 454, "Hansard" 1\io. 10.

}Ir. Power: Paull's colleague!

~fr. DAR'r: Unlike the hon. member I 1vonld not pnt a statement over Parliament that is incorrect.

I have no desire to deride the State in which I li1·e, but I conceive it to he my duty to point out that if by a reconstitution of the Loan Council the Government receive more loan money the taxpayers will be taxed more heav­ily to meet the additional interest required. At the present time this State is paying £5,900,000 annually in interest on loans. This State is oYertaxed by the Government. The Govermnent are not 'managing the affairs of State in a statesmanlike manner ancl there· fore there is no warrant for their receiving more loan money.

J[r, XIIDIO (Oxley) (12.19 p.m.): It 1ms quite appropriate that the hon. member for Rockhampton should be singled out to move this motion. It is beyond question that he always wanted plenty of loan money. When he was Secretary for Railways, not only did he spend all the loan money that was made a\ ailable to his department, but each year he

754 National Financial Policy. [ASSEi11BLY.] National Financial Policy.

finished up with a deficit very nearly approxi­nmting the whole amount of income tax col­lected in the State. 'l'hcreforo, it is onl;­natural to expect that he is miXious to get as much loan money as possible.

There is no business in this motion. It is a thrust at the Loan Council and Commou­wealth Government. In :lact, that is the object behind it.

'l'hc hon. member tried to throw tho blame for the present condition of the Queensland finances on the Commonwealth Government. How can Queensland reasonably expect more than she has had~ 'l'he Loan Council is eomposecl of a representative from each State and OJW from the Commonwealth. They sit in conference ancl each submits his require­ments. They Jmve financial expmts to help them, and finally a certain sum of money is allocatecl to each State. Has Queensland any fault to find with the amount of money macle a1·ailablo to it during the past six years? During the past three years over £3,000,000 has been made available to this State.

Tile Premier: Much more than that.

l\Ir. :NilDIO: I said, "over £3,,000,000." Wh t are the requirements of a State with a population of leH than 1,000,000? How much is it safe for it to borrow?

I\Ir. I3edford: The amount of money ncccss:uy for the dm·elopment of the country.

J[r. ~DDW: I think we once heard tlle hon. member say that he ~would build a railway to Tlnnvin with notes issued by the Common­\vorrlth Govermnent. 'l'hat is what is behind the whole thing-inflation. That is what they are afte:·. I claim that over £3,000,000 each year is a VGl'~', \'cry goocl sum with which to canv out long-range planned development. The Go1·ernmcnt know verv well that if the monev is avail a blo they ~Yill get a similar amonnt ench vear. There has not been anv nctual short'lge of loan money, but the troubl~ lws boon that the Government have never cut their cont arrording to their cloth. V\'hen the~· got £3,000,000 they spent more than £3,000,000. If :my private business under­taking cnrried on in that fashion it would arrive at a dead encl-where the Government hm e :urived; they cannot go any further, nor can they see claylight.

Tlle P1·emier: We have always had a substantinl credit balance in the Loan Fund Account.

Jl:fr. NDUIO: I accept that statement. Yet we have the hon. member for Rockhamp­ton moving a motion that means asking for more.

The Premier: You said we were spencl­ing more than we had.

lir. :XE\IiUO: The point is this: sup­posing this motion is sent down to the Com­monwealth Government and after some discus­sion it is agreed that each State shall arrange for its own loan requirements. Could the Premier or the Treasurer successfully arrange for long-range planning if the Loan Council w~s disbanc1ecl' I nsk that question in all seriousness. 'J'he Premier knows he could not

clo it as well as tlw Loan Council eau. The eom]Jetition between the States would cause a rise in tlu' interest rate on loans. The llJotion is absolutely wrong and should n01·er have )Jccn mo1·ed. The I~oan Oouncii met many times during tlw depression period, but EO m•mcv , .. as a•:ailable. E,·erv P 1'8mier \Yas seeki1;g loan 1noney if it cou1ci be obtained.

}Juring the last t\YO or three nights I have listenecl to speeches deli\'ererl by Labour c::nilirlates in the elc•tion in Xew Zealand. :Exnc:tly the same thing is taking place there, and this shows >vhat would happen if the I~a hour Partv get control in the Federal Parliament. ·,rhere they are throwing mo11ey about in order to obtain yotes at the election.

.Jfr. Bedfuni: That is not so.

:;Jir. KDIJW: They are. holding out a promise of nn old-age pension of £4 a. ''·oek for a man and his wife.

}lr. Bedford: What is ~wrong with that?

}Jr. ~HDIO: There is no possibility of uny country's being able to do that. 'l'here is no possibility of any country's surviving ~fter doing all the things they have promised tln•1·e. They talk about issuing £5,000,000 on the credit of the country to wipe off the mortgages of farmers.

J. (lovermnent :tU ember: ·what is >::rong 11·ith that~

.iUr. NI:!U:clW: Although at the present time only a cmtain amount of that money has been issued in that country, the bad money is driving the good out.

Jfr. Bedford: Where?

3fr. "!'IBUIO: In New Zealand bad money is driving the good money out.

}Ir. Bedford: That is quite untrue. \Yhere did you get that from;

I!r. ::'HJ'L.UO: Ne,w Zealand money is roming to .\ustrali:1 because there is a stable Gon•rnmcnt in the Commonwealth.

J[r, Bedford: Because of the higher rate -of interest.

.ilir, NUiiJli:O: A tremendous amount of money is being sent to Australia. People who ~an possibly manage it are getting under coFr and sending their money to Australia. :\Ioney is also being forwarded to Englancl. If we taaJ]1er with the anangements of the Loan Council in the manner suggested by this motion \1-e are looking for trouble, and it will be found not very far aw.1y.

Suppose the J,oan Council did not exist during the next four or five vears :md the hon. member for Hockhampton Fas in charge of the finaneia 1 anangen.1ents of Qu~ensland ancl adopted his scheme ~of long-range plan­ning. \Vhat could be done" J!'irst or all, he would have to journe~· South and endem·our to float a loan in the Southem States. There is no hope of a lonn 's being subscribed in Quc~"nslaHd at pre,cut. I1ioney is raised in the South and sp<"nt in Queensland. The hon. member, tlnding he could not raise a loan in

Sational Financial Policy. [6 OoTOBER.] National Financial Policy. 755

the Southern market, would look to the over­seas market. Of that we already have had one example, and we do not want a repetition. Mr. Thcodore ·went overseas and borrowed large sums of money. The Premier was in the Go,·ermnent at that time, and was agree­able to obtaining the money at 6 per CPnt. or 7 per cent. interest. \Ve should visualise what woulcl he our position to-day if we could retain the huge sums that we are sending to America for exchange and interest. It could he used for the employment of ·our citizens.

The Premier: The Commonwealth Government raised a loan in America at 6i\ per cent at £97.

)fr. ::"'Dil'\IO: That may have been dur­ing· the time of the Scullin Govemment. I do not know that they did.

The Prender: During the same period that you refer to.

liir. NillDIO: The Queensland Govern­ment hold the record. The hon. gentleman's Govennnent of that time hold the record of paying the highest interest rate ever paid by nn Austmlian Govermnent.

Jir. Power: Remember the Philp­Cowle'·-\Yalsll delegation. You forget that.

::!Ir. neilford interjected.

}fr. :\HrJ\iO: Statements may be bandied about the Chamber to the effect that the credit of Australia or Queensland was destroyed. I watcheL1 that controversy very closely, and there "-as no effort to damage the credit of the country. Do hon. members opposite think :mybor1y will take notice of somebody's mere s'ly-so? \Vhcn a statement likely to damage the cn·dit of a country is made, interested financiers investigate it, and if they find that the actions of somebodY will wreck a country -as \YRS the c:-tse oJ' the Labour Government at that period-they react and refuse to lend.

Did 110t Mr. Theodore have to climb down with regard to leases in Queensland~ He knew he was going in for repudiation and that 11e \Yas doing a dishonest thing.

JUr. Bedford interjected.

3Ir. SPEAKF.R: Order! I ask the hon. gentleman to make his rem:uks relevant to this motion. If the hon. member for Wan·ego wishes to make a speech I shnll call him a-fter the hon. member for Oxley has finished, but he cannot lJP allo1vecl to make a speech by way of inter;j ection.

The PRElUlER: I rise to a point of order. The hon. member for Oxlev accused Mr. Theor1ore of having repudiated" ,,-hilc he was Premier of this State. That statement, as you know, is entirely false, and it is unparliamentary to accuse any Premier of repudiation.

liir. §PEAKER: I ask the hon. member to a ceept the Premier's denial.

l\lr. NHBIO: Did I say that Mr. Theodorc repudia1ed?

G()';-ermnent Members interjecting--

)fr. SPEAKER: Order! I appreciate the help of hon. members who want to assist me, but I hope the hon. member for Oxley "-ill he allo11·cd to say what he wishes to say.

}Ir. NDflliO: The statement that I made wa" that Mr. 'rheodore was accused of repudia­tion. He \Vent over to London and certain fads came out oYer there, and when those facts were inquired into it \Yas found that certain leases in Qnoonslancl had been \YI"ongly dealt with. Shall I put it that way?

}fr. SPEAKER: Order! That is still qnitl3, lrre1eyant.

:!IIr. NHIJUO: He withdrew legislation that was pelH1ing with regard to tho'le leases. Shall T put it that way'l I do not mmt to sa,- tllnt the man xepndiatcf1 anything, but I rlo want to say that he had to \vithr1raw thn lcgLlation th;Jt "-as put to this Chamber before- any moneys we1·e made available.

}Ir. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem­ber r}ocs not quite appreciate my meaning. 'rlw <jllcstion ho is r1iscussing is not relevant to i llis motion unless he makes it roleYant in some \vny.

}Ir. NDC\'IO: Then I shall put it this •vay: the hon. member for Rorkhampton has bTonght fonYarcl a motion for long-range plmming, and I am trying to pTove that if we rlo anything that is going to besmirch our credit long-range or any other planning with loan money is impossible. At any rate, I shall lea,-e the matter there. Let me deal with it in this way: if the \'ommonwenlth GO\-crnm'cnt aTe inconvenienced and they are told that they have got to make certain moneys availal1le over a period of years, long­range planning \YoHlcl bo impossible. The only ww'' by which it )YOH](1 l>e possible to provide Queensland with £:3,000,000 each :·car for seven years and to guarantee to fincl that money would l1e to set up the printing press, as the h-on. member for \IV arrego has frertuently suggested.

lUr. nei!ford: You are simply stupid.

~Ir. SPEAKER: Order! I ask the hon. member for \Varrego to withdraw that remm·k. It is quite unparliamentar:'··

lUr. B'edford: I withdraw.

})fr. Nl!UlUO: If it happened that we had a Commonwealth Government that agreed with this policy of long-range planning and uncleTtook to provirle £5,000,000 a year for seven years, the only way in which it could guarantee to provide that money \Vould be to set up the printing pTess and issue notes on the credit of the country, then cancel them at sta tcd periocls, as suggested by the hon. member for \Varrcgo. What woulcl happen if that took place~ \Ve should have more moneY available than it would be possible for the community to absoTb. Vve should ha.-e pTices going up in every llirection. To-clay the note issue is in the vicinity of £5:~.000,000.

Jir. Bedford: Without any gold ha~ king.

73G ::.rational Financial Policy. [ASSEMBLY.] National Financial Policy.

l'Ir. NHHIO: It is backed by certain securities helcl by the bank.

llir. Bedford: It is backed by the British Co\-cnnucnt.

3Ir. The note issue is £53,000,000, the vicinitY of that, but ,,e nen'r tlncl more thai1 £30,000,000 requirecl by the public.

Jir. Power: How do you know?

)Ir. NDDIO: I know from the figure:'l. I-I as the ho11. m cm bcr never rea cl them' Tlw figure" clca rly sho"· that the general public rwwr rec[Uil'e more than about £30,000,000 of the £:3il,OOO,OOO notes issnell.

:Jir .. Jesson: Your figures are \'Vrong.

}Ir. 1hmstan interjected.

:Jir. ='IHHIO: I am not going to guanmtee that I am quoting the exact ilgnrc:', ln1t the l1on. n1crnbcr for Gy1nr1c knO\\ S wel1 that it is 1n that Yicinity. '!'he note ma;· he £.)8,000,000, bnt rio 1nore t11rn1 t wo-thiT(1s of it lws be-~n issued t" the gr'nc;·nl pnlJiir. •riwt shmn: the,· t·nn· not use tltc notes. You only want the' notes fer cil'r-ul~_tiou. If T';c put a printing press into opern1-iou a11(l hacl lal'gc nun111crs of 11ut·s printer',, we should be in a 1\'0rse posi­tion thnn e\·er. That is thr on]~~ w,ty long­range planning could be done.· I do not knon· wlt~iher it is in the mind of the hon. mcmlJcr for Hockhnmpton that a printing press should lJe set up, bnt I ycntnre to say that i.f \~h~ rl the }1 r:il.er31 elections aTe on th~:r pnt thr~ uwttrr before the peonle and say1 '·V/c arc going in for inflation'' as the Labour P:trt:y nre doing in Nc1v Zealand to·<l:ly, thnt \muld be the deathknell of sound finanee in _:\ ustmlia.

Y1YC llnYc a Ylontlcrful reputation O\ erseas. Australia has ncYer r-•puc1iatecl, sho hns met all hPr obligations. :filr. Tllcodore, -when he was TrcG• nTer, n1~H1c a shnilar sugg'cstion of putting £18,000,000 of ficlueiaTy notes on the n1arkL't> ana tln1t \YOllld have bcC'n clone if the Rcnate hacl not prevcntec1 it. ·what wonlJ be the position if 1':0 had done that'! That money 1roulcl lunc inereasccl probably tenfold and 1YC should never have got back to the sound l;osition we aTe in to·clav. N obodv can east an;~· nspoTsion on Australia. '\Ve ar~ in a 11·onderful position; let us keen it so. (In tenu ytion.) -

Jir. SPEAii:ER: Order!

~Jr. :'i'BHIO: There is only one way to haYc a eouutry sonnfi aud solid a_nd that is by r2.reful1y 8TH1 jcnlonsly guarding nll financ·ial cU'l't\nge1nents.

:ttrr. Gnir: Do you know that the Bank of Englanc1 works in a fiduciary note issue·! 'l'he Australian note issue is fiduciary.

Iiir. SPEAKER: Order! I would sug-gest that hon. members permit the 1'.011. member for Oxley to make the speech. E1 cry. one but the hon. membeT appears to be mak· ing the speech.

l\Ir. ;\;Tl\DH'i: I do not think that any reasonable·minded man in this House wants

to (\Cj'{ll'[· fron1 the princi.p1es of sonnJ finmH'C. It is a >Yell·knu;nl fact tlu:t in Aus· tl'glia our fil!~llH.·es have Lecu 1vell nudcT ccntnll. They have ~ c~·~1 ""IYC'1l and

~ poncy iHts been con~ eeonomists t~1ul olhers. Ko one

our bnnks ~-re getti.ng an undue profit on their money, The di,·idcn d paid to sh:ueholclcYs n1a·v ~nuount to 7 per cent. in some cases, but 'let it not be forgotten that much of that moneY has been left in the banks in ihc past, so that the actual earnings of the s1wrcho1ders in :\nstl'alia in no case an1ounts to more than 4 per cent. 'What a wonderful t<nico ius l1em1 rende1'ec1 by those banks in stn l>ilising the iin:mces of the country i

]Ir. Ue!lfonl: In 1893? 2'\DIHO: Rip van \Vinkle! !Inter-

Jir.. SPEA_ILER: Order! Jfr. ::'U~HIO: There is no questioE that

tlJOse banks lwc1 a terrible time in 1893. There was a bank smash and only about three hnuks 1\'Catherec1 the storm. 'l'hrsc emerged Jl'Oln the finnncial wreckage stronger than eyer, !Jut that only goes to show the recnp 0 ra· ti1·e po11·ers of a r.ountry like Australia. EHl'.'' one of those banks is soh·ent to·rlay. Tbe hanks llaYc clone a wonr}erful senice to Austl'alia, nncl under the pre,ent system hank fuwls are not enrning moro than 4 ner cent. on their funds. That is the long·runge policy thnt 1Ye shou1r1 ha1·e.

The Premier knows in his own heart that when he nttenr1' the Lo8n Council, anrl the fin:·ncin 1 position hns been considered hy all the experts there, he is agreeable to accept· ing a giYen sum of mane: rather than jeopar­dise the creclit of Anstrali:1. H0 is not prepared ·lo split the Loan Council; he is 11er· fectly satisfied 1vith it.

}fr. nialu;r: He has every reason to be satisfied.

?;fr~" ),TJlU~IO: Yes. We are a cornpara­tiYcly poor State from the point of view of nJOilt'J nvnilablc for inYestment. If the Loan Council floated a loan of £12,000,000, of 1Yhich £3,000,000 was allotted to Queensland, only £1,500,000 of that would haYc been wb· scribcd in QuecnslmHl.

'i'lw Premier: You are not quite correct there. :\Jany o£ the financial Jwuses make money in Queensland, lmt h;n·e their head offices in Melbourne,~ and those offices are cretliter1 with the irwestmcnt,

:Jir. N !JfUO: I agree with the Premier there, hnt the fact rem'ains that most of the money subscribed to loans is Southcn1 ntO'JCy.

Tlle P.n;m.ier: It is very difficult to say.

}.IL NHf.iliO: I am not going to labour the <juestion. I 1\'ant to deal 1Yith fac!s as I see thcn1. If thi.s ntotion is carried it is going to clo more harm than good, c·.nrl I am surprisell that the Premier shonL1 have allowed the hou. member for Rockh,,nn,ton to move it. ·we know that the lwn. mc1~JlJer for Hocklwmpton is al1Tays n:acly to jump 111to the pictlue \Vlth any 1notion that suits

Su.tional Financial Policy. [6 OcTOBER.] Xation:.tl Financial Policy. 757

him. The Prcnlicr woultl have been wise to stop him from moving the motion.

'fhe Premier: I supported the motion.

l\Ir. RHWAlmS (l'\anango) (12.43 p.m.): It is rather interesting--

The Prem¥er: Why stonewall the motion?

l\Ir. :ED1YARUS: walling the motion. right to speak?

\Ve are not stone­Surely we have the

'l'lle Pter.d<>r: You have been round all the mornin;; trying to lta1~e the motion talkefl out.

lUr. EDlLUWS: The Premier should be matle to 11·ithdmw that untrue statement. He is very quick in calling upon other hon. membcl's to >Yithdraw statements that are not true.

Queenslancl is the highcst-taxecl State in Australia, and yet it is suggesteil that >ve shoulrl scm1 thi~ motion to the I,oan Council and to the Commonwealth Government in the hope of getting even n greater snm' to speml than >Ye get now. 'l'I1e Premier should put his house in order first. 'rhen he might be justified in t:1lking to the people dom1 So;1th.

Tll<> Premier: My house is in very good order, if you will only come and look at it.

lifr. the Premier toolt for instance to the

Yietorinn people, he become a laughing stock Look >vhat the 'hctori::m people lwve been ::tl;le to do in the -way of (]cyelopnlcnt oYer a great nun1heT of -vears-l'call v in accordan~e \':lth th~ir Ion,g rrnlge poEcy. 'They ha Ye tH.:1ueyc( l consH}ern. hle c1eYcloplncnt on an areC~ that is small in<1occl in comparison witb the c<ize this Si ate. I am smprised that 1 he Premier should be prepared to go South >Yith a motion like this. I cannot under· stnncl it at all.

Let us for a moment examine Labour's long-range policy of State enteTprises. That was ono of Labour's important long-range policies. State enterprises wme definitely startccl to take ovc1· the most prominent privat·2 enterprises in this State. 'l'hosc enter· pris0s \\.Cl'C to 1Je run on a socialistic basis. Wlnt was the result~

: Sabotaged by you!

::lir. :EH1YARBS: They resulted in huge losses. They o1·cntually reached such a stage that :\IiHistcrs got up in this House and saicl that the people who worked in them had let the Government down. 'l'he Government attached the blame for the non-success of the State Clrterprises to the >Yorkcrs engaged in them, not to their policy. 1<"or years and years pnH:tical men from this side of the House ac1voc,rtc(l that the development of the State must stmt ·with the land. (Government laughter.) 'l'hc I'remier laughs, but his know· ledge of putting white lJaid on a gm·den fence does not necessarily give him a practical know· ledge of land questions.

The Premier: I will wipe your nose in it.

~Ir. EDIYARUS: You could not do it.

Jir. SPEXKER: Orcler! I am afraid the House is in a very unruly mood this morn· ing. It would perhaps be better if >w could muster a nice grin or two and discuss this Elotion on its merits, with as few inteYjection& ns rossiblc.

llir. l\lfH" Thank you very much, ~\[r. Speaker. true that practical men ;,l this House warned the Government, and if it hurts the l'rcmiPr for me to say so I ~mmot help it.

'l:lle Premier: You cannot hurt me under any circumstances.

:'llr. E : I know that the hon. gcntlc1nan praetical n1cn iu hjs Govern~ 1nent, but, unfortunately, they lwYe been oY~i·· nrled for ycard. No one can tell me that a practical man, giYcn a fair opportunity, >Tould put into cffert such legisbtion as the GoYern· ment hayo introduced ani! passeil. For vears we have been asking the Govennnent to "alter· HJCir policy. Instead of spending large sums d money, at the present tin~e at any rate, m the large centres of populahon, the Govern­nwnt shoulil spend money in those districts wl1ere the wealth of the country is produced.

The I'l'emier: vVe spent a good deal in your electorate.

.Jir. EDVI'J.RDS: My electorate has been developed. An enormous amount uf nrocluc· tiGn c nnes from my district. "

'l'lle member

Even in spite of its

: GiYe me a chance or I '"ill u•y nasty. (Laughter.)

Iii1·" SI'EAKER: Order:

: An enormous amount has been and is proceeding not only

111 my clistrirt, hnt in the ueighhouring dis· tricts. Thousands of men are finding work "'here to·dav. Surclv the Premier realises that if a sin1ila1· state (;£ affairs existed all over Qunenslancl there Y.~ould be 110 neccl for this motion.

'li'lw Premier: Your electorate has been ·well clevclopecl by this Government.

}Ir. EDWARDS: Furthermore--

The PRE}IIER (:Hon. W. Forgan Smith, ::\faekny): I move-

'' That the question be now put.''

Question put; ancl the House divided­

AYES, 36. :\Ir. Bedford

Brassington Drown Bruce Bu!cock Clark Collins Conroy Cooper Copley Dash Duggan Dunstan Farrell Folcy Gair Gledson Hanlon Ha yes

ll'fr. Healy Hislop Hyne":; Keogh l{ing Larcon1be M ann l\1arriott 1VIcLean O'Keefe Riordan Smith Walsh Williams, H. Williams, 'T. L.

Tellers: Jesson Power

758 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

:\Ir. Brand Clayton Dart Deacon Edwards :\iacdonald :\Iaher :\Iassey :VIoore

NoEs, 16.

l\1r. ~icklin Plunkett Russell \Valker Yeates

Tellers : Daniel 2\Jimmo

Hcsu! l'd in the affirmative.

Quc~tion-~That the motion (J\Ir. LarcombG) he ;cgrecc1 to-put; and the House divided~-

AYES, 36.

:\[r. Bedford Mr. Brassington Brown Bruce Dulcock Cl ark Collins Conroy Cooper Copley Dash Dunstan Farrell Foley G!edson Hanlon Hayes Healy Hi slop

NOES, 16. Mr. Brand Mr.

Clayton Daniel Dart Deacon Edwards Macdonald ilfaher ~Ioore

Resolved in the affirmative.

At 2.:2 p.m.,

Hynes Jesson Keogh King Larcombe lVIann Marriott M cLean O'Kee!e Power Riordan Smith Walsh Williams, H. Williams, T. L.

Tellers: Duggan Gair

Nicklin Nimmo Plunkett Russell Walker

'Tellers: JVIassey Yeates

The 1I ouse, in accordance 1t '.th Sessional On1a, Jil'l,rcu7, rl• with Go"e? nmcnt bus·iness.

SUPPLY.

Cmr.\II'l'TEE-Fr~AKCIAL STA~'EMENT-1~EflUMPTION OF DEBATE.

(Mr. Hanson, Buranda, in the chair.)

Debate resumed from 5 October (seep. 740) ou Mr. Cooper's motion-

'' ;'hat th~re be granted to His Majesty, for che scrv1cc of the year J 938-39 a sum not , excc~diu~, £300 to defray th~ salary of t<1c AH1e-ac-camp to His Excellency the GoYernor.''

llfr. IHRT (Wynnum) (2.3 p.m.): It would not be out of place to quote here what a Yery distinguished speaker and leader of the people, St. Paul, said in his Epistle to the Corinthi::ms-

' ''rhough I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brr.ss, or a tinkling cymbal.''

\V e ha,·e in Queensland a Premier who has state<l on a pl'cvious occasion that the motion that ,-;as discussed this morning was a vel'y import::mt one, one that should receive every consir1eration. I was very disappointed that

he thought fit to apply the ''gag'' to its dis­cussion, and thereby deprive hon. members who intended to speak on snch an important motion of the opportunity of so doing.

J'lir. T. L. 'Williams: There were only 10 minutes left.

}Ir. DART: Some, llon. members had moro time than that. As they intended to speak l think it >Yas out of place for the Premier to apply the ''gag.''

The CIIAIR.:UAN: Order! I hope the lton. member will c·onfine his remarks to the question before the Committee.

.:tir. IU.RT: There are many matters that should bP thoroughly thrashed out on this lllotion. I was not satisiied last uigltt when I considered the small num!Jer of secondary industries tltat ,\·ere being established in this State, compared with those in the Southern l:ltates. It is undoubtedly ta:xation that hinders the establishment of more secondary industries hore-42d., as against 22d. in the kouthern States. I believe that "·here we have a market for the product of a secondary industry, as well as the raw material, '"e should make every effort to see that industry established. Instead of increasing taxation the GoYennnent should be reducing it. \V c kno,,,- that many of the articles purchased lJy the Government could be manufactured in this State, such as the towels that we use here and in Government oftices. Those towels are manufactured in the South, and I know that the firms there v>ould gladly come to Queens­land to mmmfactu:re them, if they had the opportunity. 'l'hat would give employment to our local men,

Why, again, should 'vc send hides from the abattoirs to the Southern States when they could he manufactured into leather goods hero~ 'l'he l.Jooi.s and shoes that are manufac­hned in Queeuslancl are e:xcellent, but so long as 'IYO arc importing from other places there must be room for greater manufacture in t_his btate. I contend that 'IYC arc not workmg in the hest inten•sts of the people by discoar­aging the establishment of those industries by heavy taxation.

I commend the Gm·ernment for their State De>'elopment and Public '\Vorks Organisation Act. A sum of £1,720,000 has been provided in the :F~stimates for "-ork under this enact­ment, and that will be helpful for the State, but it is not suilicient for all our develop­mrntal needs. 'rlte ob;ject of the legislation, howeYer, is worthy of the State, and I com­mend the Go\·ornment for the step they have made in that direction.

The Gove1·nment, hmvever, could do more to meet the needs of a section of the com­munity "·hose conditions should be improved. I am not saying that the Government are not 1mrthy of some commendation for the work they nre doing. They can do better, and I should like to remind them that mmw of their actions are not in the best interests of the State.

A Bill 'IVUS passed during the present session to pcnnit of co-ordination between various c1epartments, but could that not ha'l'e been

Supply. [6 OCTOBER.] Supply. 759

clone years ago, if it was found to be neces­sary, and could it not be done now without a new Act of I'arllament? vV e are the same people and we ha,·e the same land, so why introduce a new Bill on the pretence that the Government are going to usher in the millen­nium and that cyerything ·will be wen·; I think that the Gon•rnmont are making a big mistake in l1olding that belief. It is all nwy well to proYicle for the co-ordination of activities, but it should result in a benefit to the pC'l]!lc. An:v Government should be able to take 1vhatcn•r steps they desire to cany out the proper functions of GoYernmcnt with­out ha,·ing to introduce a now Bill for that purpose.

I am concerned to know whether this new co-ordination 1vill moa.n a saYing to the eountrv. I am inclined to think that if it means" the Pstablislnnent of new departments and the appointment of additional highly­paid officers we arc not going to achieve Yery much. \V c must have competent public officers to carry out public duties, but that does not suggest that it ·will be neces­sary to create new departments or to appoint more officers at high salaries. I am ]Jreparccl to support this idea of co-ordination provided that many thousands of pounds are not wasted in paying big salaries to new public officers. \Ye haYc enough officers already.

First and foremost there should be the utmost co-ordination between the railways and the State 'l'ransport Board. The people l>ho arc prepared to proyide a motor service in the carriage of either goods or passengers m·e regarded by the Government with sus­]Jicion, but IYhy should men who have enough initiatil'e to endeavour to earn a living in this way, and at the snmc time render a l'alua ble service to the State, be regarded with disfavour hv the Government~ The Govern­ment should. be the first to encourage these men in their endeavour, but instead of that they nppoar to think that they are getting something to 1\'hich they are not entitled if thev arc nhle to make a reasonable living in this >Yn:v, despite the heavy taxation tha-t is imposed on them. The Government have PYery rig·M to expect the OVIT11er of a heavy whicle to naY rcnsonable fees, but they should gin' him 'm{ oppOTtunHY of earning a fair livinP' otlwnYiRe thcv mav find it 11ee.,ssary to l11;intni.n hin1, his ;;rife a11d falnily, because thev 1'1\'0 pus1wc1 him off the road by hca1·y taxation.

I am incliner1 to think that a Labour GoYernmcnt take a YeTy nnrrow Yiew "·ben men enc1E'aYom· to make a Jiying indepen­f1ent1y.

Tll~ Secretary for ~fines: What about the Nationalist Government of N PW South ·wales 1vlwse road tax is high eT f \Vhat vic1v do you take?

Jir. D.\R'l': Their tax is not higher.

Tile )Ihlister for TI'ansport: Yes, it is.

3Ir. 1UUT: Queensland is the highest-taxcr1 State in the whole Commonwealth.

'l'lle Secretary for ~lines : I am referring to motor taxation,

}Ir. IU.R'J': I am objecting to the policy o1 the GoYernment in increasing motor taxa­lion. Men 1vho desire to earn a Jiying are clcnie(l one of the rights of a free citizen by ilJO L"J1our Government-the right to make a li ing for themselves. Any Government who i11terferc with prh·ate enterprise to that extent anc1 deny country people the right to nse the roads anr1 force them out of the State are rloing n gmvc injustiee to the State they are goYerning.

People 1vho want to do businesq iu this State and lJorrow money from \dthout are told lJy the lenders that they eannot trnst the Go.-crmnent, who do not encourage pri.-ate enterprise but tnx it to the hilt. The proposal to increase taxation on motor vchieles and railway fares means that every farmer and ewry person living in the country >vill pay higher taxation. [ am not concerned for men like myself who use the motor car for their personn I con.-enieneo, but I am con­cerned for the man whose desire to earn an honest Ji.-ing- takes him into the e·ountry on business.

A man came to me this morning an<1 told me he 1\·antefl to transport material into the countq by tTUck because the coal strike hac1 affeeted railway carriage. I believe he >vill he granted a permit to cart material while the strike exists, but not aftenyards, That man had been paying motor taxation to the :\Iain Roads Commission, but was so henvily taxed that he had to go out of husincss. He is a young man with a 1vife and chih1. He bought a motor truck to cart limber, but \ras eventually fOTced .hy taxation to go ant of the business. If the Government tax one man like that they will tax others,

Jl<Ir. Riordan: Why do you not give us some constructive criticism W

}fr. nART: I am offe-ring some sound ar1Yice as to how the Government slJOnld deal with men who endeavour to earn their own Jiying. (}oyernment members are prone i o talk about men on the basic wage. That is all right, and I am quite with them, but I am now talking about another class of men >vho want to earn an amount equal to the basic wage in some other occupation, but are not permitted to do so, because they are taxe<1 out of industry. I am endeavouring to argue eonstrnetivcly on their behalf in order tlwt men with brains may agree that their fellows who want to caTn an honest living shonlc1 be gi.-cn that opportunity and not be snbjected to the imposition of tax:~tion that they cannot afforcl. Motor taxation has been cxtrcnw and unrea ',onable for a considerable time past, -bnt in spite of that fact the Cowrnment propose to make a further increase. Some Government members are earnest a]1(1 desire to do the right thing, but I n m afraid they m·e inflnenecd by others to rlo the WTong thing. So long as they pursue that policy they >villnot possess the ~onfidence of people outside the State and w1ll not be cntntsterl with loan money.

I am doubtful whether the Dairy Produ0e Acts Amendment Bill will prove of any bene­fit to the man on the land. The Government

760 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

are continually passing Bills that are harass­ing to the producers. I did not oppose that Bill, on the whole, because I thought there was a possibility that it would be of some value to the farmers. I opposed certain clauses that appeared objectionable to me.

Tile CUAIUJ\IAN: Order! A discussion on a particular Bill will not be in order at this stage.

:ilir, HAUT: Apparently we have not men of sufficient experience in the service to tell us the cause of and the remedy for snch diseoses as the three-day sickness in cattle ancl 'vhat is known as paralysis in papaws, which is causing much loss to gwwers. These diseases should llc thmougltly investigated lJy the experts of the Department of Agriculture and Stock in order that we may lle able to eradicate t!Jcm and prevent outbreaks in the futuro. This disease is very pl'8valent amongst the papaw crops now. I think it is ahsolni ply imperative, the interests of Olll' prinu:uy industries; thnt \Ye should lwn.' experts in our laboratories who are capable of investigating these diseases and telling us hmY thc:v could be checked and eliminated.

The police force are mainly comprised of the able-bodied sons of farmers who ha\'8 been attracted to the city on account of the better >~·ol'ldng conditions and better pay offering there. 'l'hcse young men come to the city and join the forc·e or do general labour­ing work. Tt is essential, in the interests of the State, that conditions should be made more attractive for the people in the country in order that the sons of farmers may be induced to remain on the farms. Until that is clone we shall haYe this continual c1Tift of young men to the city. The influx of young men from the country accentuates the competition for jobs in the city.

The following extmcts from the booklet ''Information Bulletin K o. 7'' demonstrate what the Go,·emmcnt arc doing for the coun­try 11eople :-

''·with t!l8 view to affording greater con­venience for mothers with young children in the 13rislJane suburlxm area visiting the city, arrangements were made from 14 July f01: 'the free convenmce of children's fold­ing or collapsible" perambulators, go-car~s, and push-carts, and children's small sulkles with folding handles, when folded up and accompanied by passengers.

''Assistance to the man on the land has been given by the reduction of sheep drench rates from second to first class as from 1 August. Coarse salt usecl solely as st~ck fod(lcr is now charged 'A' class rate vnth a minimum of 2 tons instead of G tons minimum previously in operation.''

That is not very much, although it is better than the proposed action of the Government in regard to taxation. Much more should be do~w for the people on the land. This Government have failed in that direction.

The Sub-Department of Forestry spent £346,000 last year, ancl £470,000 is provided for the present financial year. The increase ;is wry encouraging. Reforestation should

have attention. In times past our timbers '"ere destroyed or expmtcd, aucl I commend the Government and the sub-department for their reforestation programme. This is some­thing that posterity will not only enjoy, but also be thankful for, but it has no connec­tion with primary producers. The programme has the object of pwviding work for om· unemployed-to this I make no objection and the Government will benefit.

As the population of Queensland increases, provision must be made for the education of more children. The 'l'reasurer is to be com­mendecl for setting aside for this purpose this year a larger snm than in the past. The futuro gPneration of school ehildren is being catered for by the erection of no''" schools aml the present by the impro\·cmont of school surroundings.

At one time children hacl to put up with such discomfo1·ts as clamp playgrounds ancl slippery areas underneath the schools. These things are now being overcome by the cxpcn­,l;j·nrc of money by the Government.

There are many items of importance that I can support in the Budget, but I cannot agree 'Yith higher taxation. It is the present liea\·y taxation ruling here that is retanling progress in the State, all(] any furt!ccr taxa­tion will not be welcomed by those ·who want to see Queensland prosper. I regret that I ,•annot support the Budget in some of it• aspects, but to those things with wl1ich I ngree, I propose to give my wholehearte[l_ support.

3Ir. 'l'. J,, 'I'VILLL\.'US (Port Curtis) (2.31 p,m.): Having ,been prevented by ill­ness from speaking to the Address in Reply, I shonld like to take this opportunity, with y'Jr,~· permission, 1\Ir, Hanson, of con1;ratnlat­in;; both you and Mr. Speaker upon your re-election to your respectiYe offices.

\Vhcn one comes to speak in this debate en eh year, one's thoughts naturally turn to the finances of the State, its State's revenue, its loan eX)JerHliturf', and the apportionment thercnf. I have boon a member of this Assemlllv for between six and scYen ve;us ~ml I h·m·e alwavs trierl to take a fai~· a!lli impartial Yiew of all matters affecting the welfare of the State and the expenditure by the Trensurer or Premier, as the case mRy be, in pnrticnlar, ancl I have never discovered ~my waste of public money in any direc.tion. lily electorate has not received more than it was probably entitled to, ancl any moneys that I have received for any purpose in my elec­torate have been put to the best possible use. Hon. members opposite haYe declared even chis morning that the Government had squan­dered monev. I have visited a number of electorates ;\nd have seen eloquent signs that the money spent has been put to excellent use.

His Excellency, when opening Parliament, referred to a number of matters that "'ouirl be the subject of legislation for the progress and arlvancement of this State. One to which he rcfenecl in particular was the canying out of such schemes as water and fodder con­sel'\'ation for the henefit of pl'imary pro­ducers, Such legislation "'oulcl benefit not

Supply. [6 OcTOBER.] 761

only primm·y producers, but also the vwrkers in sec-ondary industries, as well as those secondarv inc1ustries themselves. I have stated 1;reviously, and I repeat now, that citieo han' been built up on the background of proper agricultural methods and rlevelop­ment. Proof of this may be seen in such examples as Gympie, Childers, Gladstone, ~Ionto, 'l'omvoomba, and other larger or smaller centres.

Jrrigatio1~ an(1 schen1es for -water and fodder conservation are of vital importance to this State, perhaps more at the present time tlwn ever at anv other time in its history. I lw1·c always "taken a keen interest in thbc mn tters. and such a move as that contemplatcr1 in ·the legislation to be intro· duced is of national significance. As I said some time ap:o, then• is nndoubterlly a definite relationship bchvecn inigation anfl for1der ani! w:1ter consenation in all or any of their forms on the one hand and national progress and prosperitv on the otheT. As manv hon. meml>Prs ol' tll.is Committee kncm·, both •/ictoTia anc1 Xe>Y South ·wales cmbaTlcerlnpon schemes IJf this nature some :;·ears ago, and there is a gTeat lesson to be learner! from those States on- this subjent.

His Excellency neYcr fails to bring home to us the need for irrigation anrl water and for1rler conscr1·ation aritl to remind us as lr-gislators of their great value to the State. His Exc-cllenc,· travels far anr1 wirle through the' State. Hi.s comments in the Press and his statements from the public )J]atform are ahyays \YOrth listening to. He seems to haYe g·ot a grip of the requirements of the Strrte, am1 nc1·er fails to push home his -roint. As nn illustration, I necrl only refer to his rcmnrks in n preview of the last R-oyal Xational Exhibition. IIe saicl-

"For the lnst hvo mont!Js I Jtn,-c !Jcen tonring the far Korth, the con,hll towns, anr! thr• f:n \Vest, and en'T'·wheTc I finr1 a keener nppTcciation of all the as,ets which tllr ~tflte possesses, anfl 0.11 8HTl1C'~It desire to me ;lll scientific and np-to-rhtc methods to 1ll'Ogl'('SS -in their developnlCnt.

'' \Yh:,ther that progress is to come by a bctte1· nppTeci::1t.ion of tl1e Yaluc of r~seareh, hy irrigation, b;· for1rler conservation .. by fertilization, by iqcreaserl C-Jmmunications, L,, hydro-electric pmver, by water conserva­tion, or hy vdmtever mcan,s ach-isecl by those lJcst able to r1o so, there is a determination, far grentcr than T have seen at anv time in the Jnst six vears, to go nhcar1. anrl a greater pride 'in the State, ancl a gTecrtel" hope in its futmo.

'' T!Jc old saying, '.Jnst p1·ide is no mc2.ll f:--ctor in a State, a sense of greatness keep:3 :1 :a:1tjon great,' is ::t Ycry trne one, ancl \VC eau nffe>n1 to have that pride in Queensland, for "-c lin ._.,, so much of >vhich >vc can be proud.'' If His Excellency snid no more than that

r1nring- the remaimler of his term as Governor of tld~s St:1te~ he -would haYe given us rnuch food for thought.

I am pkas~<1-probably more than some hon. nwrniJers opposite--to see the legislation

th8t has been forecast. One o£ the tasks confronting the Premier and his Government is the soh·ing of the State's ,biggest problem, unemployment. Dealing with this subject some time ago, the Premier said-

'' To deal with the intermittent relief >York problem the Government proposes to legislate for a co-ordinated planning of public works and constructional utilities.

''It will be a big job-one of the biggest and most important attempted. It >Yill neecl the sympathy and co-operation of all sections of the community.

''The objective is continuous employ· ment; there is Tcproductive work !o be done in irrigation and water conservatwn: theTe is soil erosion to be tackled; ... ''

Tlic pro blcm of soil eTosion and erosion of farm hm1s is a matter of national significance and one that we must face sooner or later. He continued-

'' ... in short, a marshalling of useful works, a long-range nationalisation of spending and of endeavour.''

I alll plcased, also, as I know you and other hon. memhers in this Chamber arc, Mr. Hanson, that such a measme has been brought into existence, because I feel that at last we are getting rlown to real business in the interests of the State as a »·hole. Much thought nnrl. considerntion me :being giyen to uaticinal planning, oT planning aheac1 foT futuro works, whether for development or for the relief of unemployment. ·when we do that >ve make for a greater expansion not onlv of ouT primary industries, but also of om: secondnry industries.

Perhaps at this stage I may be pennit~ec1 to repeat what I saic1 on a similar occaswn to thi~, as it appears in '' Hansarc1'' for 1937, pages 498 to 500, of the ne~c1 for orderly planning so that the State might get some· >v!Jere in the matter of development and ti1P relief of nnemplo~·ment. I said-

'' i\f casu res of national importance shoulrl be ronsiclerer1 from a broad national iJoint of dew. Under the existing order of things immediately a measure 1s brought forward, however necessaq it ma:y be. f~r the progressive welfare of the 1?-~twn, 1t 1s vigorously opposed by the pohtlcal party or parties who haw cstablis!lerl th;mselves ns oppositionists. We have 1t conb:mously instanced in our own State Parham~nt, where >re find Parliamentarians Yotmg r1ireci-h- opposite to the measures they ?ac1 arhocatcd ,_-hen pursuing their canchda­tnre.'' Then I \Yent on to refer to the annual repol't

of the Public ScrYicc Commis-joner, l\Ir. Story, >Yhich had been iahled in Parliament only a few rlavs before. FTom that report 1 Tea;! this extract-

' 'Orderly Planning. ''Orderly planning of ;vorks projects

for unemployment rohef puTposes illYO!Vl'S a carcft~] marshalling of schemes and a critical analysis of them >rith a

762 Supply. [ASSEl\IBLY.] Supply.

~de'.: to the selecting of the schemes which will cm y:loy most. m:m IJOYYcr n s the first oL;iectine, and will coutnin the greatest possibilitiec• of becoming rcprocluctine Ordvrl;T p1annin,g also ituplics a reason­ahle clistribution of CJlmlovm<:'nt YYOTks throughout the State, ~·:it'h p:uticuJ:.r re~;·al'<l to the centres in which the gTcatcst nmount of m1cmployment cxi"t'. Conh·ollecl budgeting inYolYes n do c ~o·ntiny of thP rnethoCb by ·,rh ic-h these sroee'al YYorks sbould Le financc•cl am] the• in~:titnti:1g of safet;'lW1'(1S to scc:lll'(: a fair rct un1 on expenditure.''

I then made reference to thl measures of national importa;lce that yyoulrl be ncccc:;ary in the State-

'· Tl1cre lloes not seem to lw a desire on the p[li't of Rome hon. mrmbns to do the right thing by Parliament anu the peopln the1· rcrn·csrnt or to dcYclon a hroacl national· outlook I wonrler- at times whether we shall oYer reach that happ;,· state.

'' T propose to <leYote a <·on ·iclcrahle part of 111;7 time this 1nornh!.2: to deali11g 1dt11 tbe la,:k of national plmmiJH; and ho\Y Ps~enthll it is that \Ye ~houlc1 t1C\'t?lop :1

I ·To rH] outlook on matters of llntional impo:!_'t;:1nce, an outlook free frmn a n~ITOW ]nl'ty point of vie>Y, which is not ancl m·yc; lws hccn in the intcrc.,ts of Parlia· mcnt.

"IYhy <lo we fiwl it lH'<·rssrrr:· to !lisems snrh n~'attcrs ns nlnrh:f'ting' restricHonR, export bounties, referendum~, mHl amenil­ments to onr Constitution, migration, loo-cmerntion for Empire rlefenee, pacts, rrnu Jle:J k-year schc1ncs, n-::pehanisa tion of indus­tr;·. brmking Teform or the control of creflit, a 40-honT week? 'l'he answer is 'that we have not plamwil ahead with a 11:11 iun:::;l ontlook ns onr n1ain considerntiou, both in :m incljy~icJual as well as in a eollectiYc sense. One has only to cast one's miJJil 1J8Ck some years not o;1ly in QLLecns­lanc1, but in eYC!'J othe1· part of the Com­momYc1lth, to dhco':cr that a jlersonal and general sun·ey by anrl in the interests of the people is ncerlcd.

''A personal suTvey is essential in order that YYC may sec if \\~C are fulfilling our purpose as hon. members of the Lcgisla~ tiYe Assembly.''

I further said-

'' National planning has been diseussed on many oecasions am] there is no neces­sity, therefore, for me to clcvclop the sub­ject, but it might be just as well to examine a few of the more important mat­ters that readily come to mind. Take our forests, the VCTY subject of one of the measures that was recci\'ecl with so murh opposition in the last session of Parlia­ment, which were being either denuded or· unsuccessfully exploited because we had not planned ahead in the interest of that great industry and of the State generally. The opponents of this measnre knew that it YYould benefit the community. Our soils

haYe Le(•on1e e1·ot1efl, 1Jcrn.usc \\'C have oll(nrrd oYerstoddng a1Hl the rutldcss cut­ting do'· n of timlwr, th0 roots of YYhich, ~~:Ju.'n the tin1bcr is green, is nature's 1\-ay of binding the soil tog,cthcr. Our 1nincral '"' e:1Jth is being \',,aste<1, or sought for unscicntificall:v by n1e11, n;nn}- of w]H)nl ·will nc\·cr in their Jiyes be 1nincrs or prospectors.

''Our gras3 lant1s, in1anr1 an<1 coastal, ha vc been ruinecl hy oYcrstoeking, omis­~:don to frrti!i?e ~tt reg·ular inten·~lls, and failure to fallmv thrl1l_-,'

I .,·cnt on at some Jcongth, hut I am not going to "!. r:1ry the Cha1nher any fnrthc1· beyoru1 recnlling· that I nlso saicl--

' 'J~ngland is a lllOTC h1gh1:· f1C'\-('lopC';l country to-clay tllnn cn•n Amcricn, bnt it is at 1nst en1barking· on a cn11paign of nfltionn] plu11ning·. This great anfl highly popnlatcd conntr:, has learnt a lesson, even though late in the clay. It is uot too late for a young cotnlb·,- like A ustr~tlia to sH up anc1 take notice of the Jll'oblcms :chcad of it.'' -

Twelve 1nonths ap,·o T 111entionea the ncec1 for na1-ional pl:un1ing and looking ahcnt1, :uul ·while 1uauy hon. lllCnlhers opposite laughed at the idea probahlv it is because the Labour Go,·crm1W!lt have lwcn in po\Ycr. I feel that 111nch good cnn come from suc·h a scheme. There is almnllant evi,lcnce that n1uc·ll dcvrlopmcnt is f;)king phH~e under similnr proposnls in the Southern Stctes, and in tl:e Dominion of X CYY Z:cal:mcl.

As a Tesult of the national planning and dm·elopment works scheme in New Zealand under l per cent. of the j)Cople there are unemplo:n•cl to-day. 'rhat is a happy state of nffni1·s, and if our achieYcments approxi­watc that result then this legislation will be WC!rranted.

Despite the fact that hon. members opposite deride the idea that a State developmental works scheme can do any good, we find that the X ationalist Prem icr of New South Wales, :\fr. B. R. Stm·ens, is in full agreement with it. He h[ls at least be on <lccent enoug·h to giY·e the Queensland Government credit for endeaYoming to o-rapplo with the serious problem we ha\·c here. In a Press message n bout the time the Premier put forward his Rtnte r]eyelopmcnt )Jolicy i\Tr. Stevens tele­phoned to the Premier and expressed agree· nwnt with the nnderl;ving principles of the GovNm11ent 's State de\·elopmcnt rtnd public works co-orrlination proposal. He had not studied details of the Bill hut, from >Yhat he understood of it, it nppeared to be soundly hascd. Despite all that we are told that Quecnslnnc1 is not progressing. There is very much eYidence to show that Queensland is progressing. \Ve are told that we hay·e little or no secondary industries and contribute nothing of impm:tan~·'' to the Commonwealth's YYealth in that respect.

I "·ould here e:1ll the attention of hon. members to an aTticlc that appearerl in the ''Telegraph'' of 29 July last wherein it was

Supply. [6 OcTOBER.] Supply. 763

pointell out that Queensland savell the Com­momvenlth from an overseas trade deficit. The article stated-

'' During the year Queensland had a faYourable overseas trade balance of £12,762,606. Exports from the State were >vmth £18,421,951, while the total imports :rere ,-alued a~ £8,211,292. The total ~an>urahlc: tradmg balance for the Com­momvealth, on the other hand, was only £11,~48,000 ('xports, incluuing gold ancl ;peue r~mountmg to £125,47'1,000, and rmpuns IJclllg nducd at £113,G49,000.''

"l_;ndcr the heading of ''Contributing Indus-trie-,'' '.1-c read in the same article-

'' The main Queensland industries contri­lmting to the favmuable Commonwealth ll~ln.11ee Wol'e dairy, sugar, beef, 'vool, and mmerals.

''The quantity and value of exports of these pro duets during 1937-38 were-­Butter, £946,730; beef, other than ehilled, £2,445,270; sugar, £4,0;'53,494; greasy wool, £8.297,012; scoured wool, £1,094,768; eopper concentrates, £371,382; zinc coneen­tJ·ates, £824,934; pig lead, £1,356,944.''

That is an ans'.'.-er-not a complete answer,· perhaps-to those who hold that Queensland is not pla:ving its part both as a primary produeing BtatP and to some extent in secondary industry.

I am glad that the Premier yesterday morn­inj:t, when dealing- with the Budget anfl taxa­tion in this and other States, referred to the taxation methods in operation both in the Commomve'llth and other States. As he pointed out, in New South Wales all taxes are paicl into ronsolidated rev0nue, including tramwa:v and harbour trust funds, road trans­port and traffic fees, and wages rmd special income tnx. This represents a total of over £7,000,000. The totnl expenditure under tho,- lvndings amounts to something like £fi,OOO,OOO in rmmd figures, leaving Mr. Btewns \\·ell owr £1,000,000 to the good.

Y~uions s'.m1s from othPr fnnr1s are bronght in hv tlw Xntionalist Gowrnmcnt in New Sonth Wal<'s to bolster up tlwir Budget. \Vo coulrl do the same. There mn}· come a <lay when there will be no trust funds and e.-erv­thing >vill go into one form of revem;e reccints. If >Ye rlid 0s the Common\Ycalth nnd New South Walr~ do-the State that is so often quoted by hou. members opposite­we should not only have balanced the Budget but have shown a surplus.

I take this opportunity of complimcnting the Treasun'r on his first Budget. Acrording to a statement in yestenby 's '' Courier-ll,frril,'' the Treasurer sho,1·s that item by item Quccnslaml 's Budget compared favourably >Yith that of New South \Yales. The report in the '' Courier-J\lail'' says-

'' 'Item· for item, C,.lueensland 's Budget shmved up favourably by comparison with that of X PlY South Wales,' sail! the Trea­smer (:'Ir. Cooper) yesterday. 'l'his was emphasised if one took from the New South \V ales Budget the greater source of

revenue it had from wages tax, special income tax, and the harbour trust funcl._

'' J\J:r. Cooper was referring to a com­parison of the two statements >Yhich \Yas made bv the 'Courier-Mail.' He said that in addition to its income tax, land tax, and stamp duties, the New So nth \Vales Government estimated it would receive £3,200,000 from 11·ages tax and £:3,600,000 from special income tax this year. 'l'hese Hems correspond with the unemployment relief tax in Quecnslancl. The miscellaneous receipts of the K ew South \V ales Treasury included £825,850 from the State lottery.

'' N CIY Ronth \Vales Budget figures, there­fore, includetl more than £7,600,000 which might be used for social seTvices. The total amount proYirled for expenditure by the department of social senices was £1,;)00,000, and this coveTerl expenditure on unemployed .. vorks nn<~ services, family endo\rn1cnt, ancl widows' pensions. 'l'hc Sydney HaTbour trust fund which would have an income estimated ~t £1,146,000, was brought into tlle Budget, and, ns expenditure, >vas esti­mator] at £927,000, it was evident that COll'OJidatcd TCYellUC \Yas profiting bj'

£219,000 from that source.''

So that, item for item, we measure: up fairly well with New South Wales, if »e do not show to greater advantage.

As to balancing Budgets, what justification is thoro for it if it cannot be done without injuring somebody. Everyone knov>: that. it is much easieT for the Commomvea1th, 'nth their greater revenue anll more nmnerous avenues of taxation, to balance their Budget. It looks well on paper for the Prime Minister, or a Premier, to be able to go to the country and say that he has balanced the D•Jdgd. As I have said three OT four times already-and I shall continue saying it-if you >Yant to bal­ance your budget somebody may haYe to suffer. \Ve could have balanced our Budget if we clicl what the (,.lueensl::mcl people clicl not want us to do. If we dismisr,ecl c;-ory thud or fouTth railway porter, and every tenth .or fifteenth station-master, aml reduced the pohee force and the teaching service, '' e could ha ye saved enough to enable us to balance our Budaet. But what suffCl'ing would have been entailed in reaching that objective'?

JUr. }Iaher: What is going to happen when your reYenue falls far short of your cxpenditme?

Jir. '!'. L. WlLLIAlUS: I have not con­sidered the point of view suggested hy the I,ead er of tho Opposition.

I claim that much responsibility rests with the Federal Government for not coming to the aid of the States in the >vay they should have done.

vVe do not want the Commonwealth Govern­ment to bolster up our Budget, but they should clo the right thing by us in matters pertaining to education, unemployment, and assistance to farmers in drought periods,

764 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

•vhic!r arc not the rcspemsibility of the State IYholly.

3Ir~ v,~alsh: rrhey suggest that it should be cut out.

Jir., 'l'.. L. : rrh::::.t is so. A .. man \rho is out work not n;r unemployed Hose'I'Uod man, a Gladstonc man, or a Queens, lancl ill:ln, but un uncn1ployed unit of the Commom\·ealth of _,\.ustralin. };vc;·y beast that r1ies on a farm is a loss not onl~· to the fam,er or the butter factory, lmt ultimate!;· to the Cu;nmonwealih. IL is uot the function of n ;)~;cct' Government alone to l>l'OYidc the ·whoL~ of tbc n1onev necessary fol' ~lwD.lth and n1e~1ir::1 s~.r, ic.es; 'i!ncnlplo:_n{H:nt n:lief, ann ass1st:-r:1co to fanners.

Tl1- hon. n1c1nbcr for Cunningh::nn conl­plainc<1 of the burden of taxation in Queens, land. The inhabitants of all conntljes }Hn-e

to c- •·;·y the burden of taxation, and it is not the desire of the Premier, tlle :\Iinistty, or any memher of the Government, nor, indeed, of the Opposition, to inflict bunlensomo taxa· tion, llat the hon. member wry ably side,

the ltHtin issue. lie did 11ot rnention tiJ~ Commonwealth Government led the

''-a.': ~ :J.. 1 a:Y::ation. Any taxation that the GoYC' "·1lnicnt 111a:y impos'e in Qucrns1and \Yi ll amc cm~ to under £1,000.000, >vhere~s the extt·-, taxation in1pos,ed "by ·the ConlnJon­"·en li 11 Go1·crn1nent Y•:iU rcneh npproxin~atel~· £G,!1iiO,OilO fol' the present financial year.

The tion

of the 1'axpa;•crs' Associa, follOIYing YiC\V :-

(' '\Ye n.Ch11it tLat defence is nccessaTy, IYC knoY'i' thnt it '.Yrts also a kno\Yll

to the :Federal Go1 ernn1cnt, a11d jn nn Xniicrn:-ll

' de ~I r. P. rr_ Clro\·c the TaxpaycTS' Association)

he commented on tlw nronosal to incrnsc- taxatio11 to nssist in iin~an~ing Aus, trnlin 's defence programme. '' 'T f 'here had been no national insur­

' he ndded 'there would ha Ye been no fnr an increase in taxation to such an

cxtcllt a,, now proposed.

'' 'vV e are not cn,·illini>' at the insurance Sl'hewc, hut we arc objecti'ng to the i!Himed production of it.' ''

V~,.e know the Federal Go,-ernment must pro­VIde defence, nevertheless at the same time they l1ring- in an cxpensi,,e ::'-Jntionnl IHsurance 8rhemP. This is :::uprorte(1 h~? the fol1o\ring news nressage from Victoria, headed ''Taxes, ~17 lis. :'5d. a head. Protc't against Budget Incref!sc,'' and reading-

'' Australia had taxation estimated at £17 6s. i'id. a hend for the vear ended 30 ,Tune, and wRo. one of the heavilv taxed countries, according to a report" at the annual meeting of the Taxpayers' Associa, t1on to,day.

'' :\Icmbers appreciated that Australia must f>;·,e increased expenditure on defence, lmt condemned the Federal increase in land tax r-s grossly unfair.

''The as~ociation decided to press for abDnclonmcnt -of the increase proyided in the bst Federal Budget.

'' 'l'he repo1·t stated that tllcl'e was incrcasrd need for the aP~o,jation, as extrava­gant sp('nding and cx~cssi\'e taxation had touched lc\·cls not prc,·iousl:y approached.'' lion. members opposite, straight from the

shou1dc1', attack the CJuccnslancl Labour Go,-ermnent, lmt at the s'·mr time rn(1eavour to excuse all that ktppens in other States. According to them, no excuse can be found for Queensland, and nothing done here is in tbe interests of the pcopic. 'l'hey arc loud

of the Commonwealth Goven1, n1e11t ~ atiorull I nsnrtn1ec Re· heltl(_') 1;ut suc-h C')Jnmeudalion r'1n11ot be genuine, because the sc1lC111C tlocs not n1easurc up to \Yh::t theY desire for the follo,Ying J·caso>Js :_____:_·(]) It is not 11ationaL as nuiue1·ous ~:.cctions a1'c: not :i:_lcluc1('11 under Hs <-·cope, such ~s farn1crs, shopkeepers; and so1£-en1ploycd -..--;~oTl:ers; (2) no nEtc-natal, rwst-nntal, or i;d:tnt hutlth benefits arc available; (3) there are no hen lth }1TOT.~isions fen· \YiYes and families: ( 4) it contains no foT hospital (":l<ses; (;3) H o1nits Pions for ea9unl \\~orkers: lwbxccn HJalcs :111d n'~''umcs th:1t siek or ngecl ran be sustainc:l at less cost· than males; (8) caJployc1·s a=·e 1-o be tnxed for e1np1o;ving­tllc> more they emplov the moTe theY are taxed, •,:ith a .. grenfer tax 'for n1nlc cn11;loyees than f('Jn:-llr~. A sC'he1rc of which that can be ,n·ittrrl cctnnot be s:1id to bo :nn.tic.n2l in its outlnok, and it ,-·m not he natiom;l in its npplirntion. nnd it is rcgrethblr that the 11i·h!1nry Tn'frr1u<.:er \Yil1 h2 one of the 1uudcst hit L-:r this I 1\:c1c1'al sehc1nC.

It is to he noted with pleasu;·c thDt legisla­tie>n is to h~~ introduced for the purpose of t'L'liC'Ying nncn1p1oymcnt as :fnr ns that is

This problem is still with us, nnd l' likelY to l>e with us as >Yith cverv other

~tatc of 'the Oon1n10l1\YCnlth, or any Country nf the wol'lcl, for a considerable time to come. In f:1et, nnelltplo;nncnt is the bugbear of all rountrics. An1c1·icn, w-ith all its rcsourcns. nnturnl and otherwise. hns approxi.matcl~ from 1 :.'.000,000 to B,OOO,OOO unemployed at tho 11resent time.

In one of his speeches dul'ing; tbe present the Pren1icr said that the rc1ncdy for

Inent ,~-:JQ sin1ple 1r the prOL!c>In in thP right spirit by all who

slwulcl he eonccrncc1 to solv0 it. ~'hat is so. Ewi';\'body is concenwd in this mntier. The P:uliament of the Rtnte, the incliviclunl, the nu1n IYho :is in a position to crent cnlploy­mont should concern themseh-es with the ques­tion. 1l'hc Lu honr Govenunent nclopt and follo\Y a policy of giving both work and n liYing ·h3,sis of IYages to their neoplc. They ([O ~ll they cnn for those who are fortunate e;,ough to be employed nncl for those who are mm·c or less unfortunate enongh to he uncm­]'loyed. X o effort is being made in any of thr Go,,ri'mllent 's schemes to curt nil "anv ~n~enun thTough \Vhich crnplo:n11C1lt 1nay t'c gi,·en to our unfortunate unemployed. It is onl:· natural that the period of transition fron1 jntcrn1ittcnt or any other fonn of re1i.ef 'York j o n0rmancnt '1\'0~k \Yill have its lwaTt lJurnmgs." J~yen if the r~eader of the Oppo­sition shifted from one hom: to :mother

Supply. [6 OrTOBER.] Supply. 765

ntross the street there would be at least some pel'iod in which he would experience worry and inconYenience.

As time goes on, Ye hear more encourag­ing comments anr1 more satisfaction exnressed at' the Government's scheme, more i·eports that it 1s the right one, and that it will ·be th,• rip;ht one in the end. Our public worl<s polic:· prm·0s tlmt we are right, and it is interesting to obson·e that other States of I ho Commom1·ealth, in fact other countries o<' the woTlct arc adopting a policy similar to OUl'fi. vd 11·c find writers to the Press com­lJlaining ··:bout the treatment of the relief ;:,-orkPJ' nnd almost rc;J,Tetting that the Govern­ment hrt\'C lnken :111)' stops at nll to move these JW0plc from their fom1cr stnte into a Rtatc uf full-time cmplovment under improved conditions.

One J~ri~b:n1e \\·riter to Yariou9 nrovincial p11peJ"~ hnd ihis to say on ~4 Septc;nbcr--

'' The Rherts of Brish~nc to-dav seem to lw lonelY >l'ithout their restful

.,.o,:l<ers. Sulmrbia hns been one of its most picturesque orna-

111('11!~ in nlrnost ~.till lifr, and unless the Prc>micr is forced to relent in his deter­mination to abolish intermittent relief, it l1as gone for cYer.''

There is n \\Titer deplori11g the fact that the GoY::Tn~11C'llt nrc taJdng the n1:1ttcT h1 both hnmh h rm cffoTf· to stnmp out this evil.

Thn,se pccple who ca11 n1ust he 1p to so lye the nmhlcm. SJncly, the rrsPonsihilit~- of meeting ihc situation does not cle,·oh·e upon the GoYc-J·nmeut all th0 tin1c? \Vc aT0 floing our r'est. Our opponents, those outside of J'nrli:tnlrnt -in pnrt-ic:nl:n·, rPrngnj~e that \Ve nre shiYillg to rlo th" right thing by the people.

The Premier said tbat the unemployment Telicf tax \Y::lS introcluced chiefl.v because prh·ate enterprise had more or less failecl misera hl:v in many directions to meet its obligations in this respect. Other hon. mem­llers, including myself, have snid that before, nnd I repent it in nll sincerity. I saic1 a few momr'lb ngo thnt the ilH1iviclnal can help ancl shonlrl not allmY the GoYernment to carry all the bnn1en.

Hon. members opposite maintain thnt the Go1·ernmcnt nro not doing all they should for thr relief of the unemployed. They are surely not sincere. To think it is bad enough, but to sa;· that we are not doing our best is mani­festl;· unfnir, becnuse we are doing our ,best. In our turn ""' look to priYate enterprise, to others in a position to help, to do tl1eir part nlso.

Pri,·nte entornrise-a term that includes manufacturers~ m;d manufacturing concerns­citlwr O\Yns or control nine-tenths of the producing or mnnufacturing concerns and ngencies for the giving and creating of employment.

A article from Geneva, dated 20 -Tnly this year, says-

.· \\'oriel unemployment statistics for the sc·cond qunrter of 1938, which have just

hern compiled by the International Labour Office, show that, compared with the cor­responding quaTter of J 937, unemployment hns increased in nine countTies. These are: The United States, Canada, Belgium, the T~'nited Kingdom (Great Britain and North­crn Ireland), Ireland, France, Denmark, Bnlguria, and Norway. Compared with the Jll'O\'ious quarter of 1938, howcyer, unem­plopllent, the statistics disclose, has rlcclinec1 in nll except the first three.

''Thus, in the second quarter of 1938, the statistics reveal, the United States had 11,129,107 unemployed, 2,816,279 more than in the corrospondi11g quarter of J 937, nnd J ~6, 107 more than in the preYions quarter of 1938.

'' Cnnada lmd 116,948-16.fi25 more than in the second quarter of 19?.7, and 26,082 more tllnn in the first quarter of J 938; \\·hiln Belgium harl 141,499-16,R30 more than in the second qnarter of 1937, and 5,201 more thnn in the first quarter of ]9:18.

''On the other hancl, the Unitec! King­rlonJ, \Yith 1,778,805, harl 381,805 more than in tll' second quarter of 1937, but 28,71:~ less than in the first qnarter of 1938; Trelnnd, with 97,571, had 9,091 more than in the second quarter of ] 937, bnt 7,258 less than in the first quarter of 1938; and ·Pr:mce, with 411,835, had B7,549 more than in the secoml qunrter of 19:17, but 32,541 less than in the first quarter of 1938.

"Denmark, with 93,342, hac1 19,963 more than in the second qu:uter of 1937, but 'lil,S~O less than in the fi·rst quarter of 193S; while Bulgaria, with 9,402, ha cl 3,053 more tlwn in the second qunTter of 1937, bnt 9,fiGO less than in the first quarter of 1938: and Norway, with 22,938, had only 910 more than in the secom1 quarter of Hl37, anr1 12,373 less than in the first quar­tE'r of 1938.

'' Desirles the 1Tnite<l Sbtcs, Cnna<b, and Bclo·ium the statistics disclose, four other cou~tTie~ had more unemployed in the sec on c1 quarter of 1938 th3n in the first quarter. Chile, with ~~ total of 3,5~2, showe<l an increase of 4oo; Czechoslovalua, with ~04,132, an increase of 26,160; Hun­o·1rv with 4 7 423, an increase of 1,291; ~nrl, 'Rnmania., 'with J 0,907, an increase of 4,5G.J..''

Thus it \Yill be seen that oYen the older eonntrios of the worlcl--

JfJ'o Jfnl!t>r: They have limited resources rrnrl big populations.

:Hr. T. J_,. 'tYU;LIA~I§: Countries with large u nrl unlimited resources still have their unemployed in greater numbers than the younger countries. It is a problem that \Ye haYe lwrl to face, nre facing, am1 I fear shall continne to haYe to face unless we do as we are now doing, that is, introduce wise legisla­tion tlwt ,,-m relieve-has even already rclieYe<l-the unemployment position.

766 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

In conclusion, I should like to appeal to new hon. members opposite to adopt a policy of co-operation >rith the G0ven11nent as far as they possibly can. I ]mow that they are anxions to do so. \Y c do not object to critir.ism->~·e are all subject to it-bnt there arc times \rhen we deplore destructive cTiti­cism and \Yould welcome constrnrt iye criticism. I e1o hope that there will be a bigger, brighter and broadN ontlook by new hon. members opposite. \V e all hope that the legislation th:1 t has been passe cl and is to be passed will be the means of reducing the number of nncmployecl and will make for the better­ment of the State. I trust that the future legislation of this Parliament will receive greater support from hon. memlJcrs opposite than the legislation ahcac1:y passcl1 during the session.

Jir. :i BDIG p.m.): It is almost ]Jathctic to that after this GoYernmcnt have been in oi'ticr for almoBt seven y~ars, a member of the calil11·e of the hon. memlJer for P01't Cm·tis should get up and apologise for their inability to tackle the problem of mwmplo)·ment. T shoulcl not minrl a bit if the Government admitted straightfonvardly that they had failed. We h10>r Yery well that they a~ -mmed offiec on the promise to the peop1e that they cJnlcl relie;·e unemployment an cl thn t they conld put everything right in this State. It \Yas pathetic to see the present Secrctar;· foT Public I,ands standing in his place in opposition in 1932 anc1 saying, ''Hand over the 'J'rcnsnry lwnches lo us and we >~ill. right the whole of the trouble.''

The Seer~tary for Public :Lands: \Ve J1a·re done Yery \>"ell. \Vo have the lowest pn­ec•ntag2 of unemployment in all the States.

}fr. :\HrlUO: That is untrue.

'flle Sec1·etury for Pnl1He ·L:mds: It is r lJsolntcly true.

)fr. ::'\DDIO: It is absolutely untrue. The peTcentage in New South \Vales is Ye1·y mudt l:,elm·; tlt;t1· in Queensland, yet nt the begin­ning of the depression unemployment in Queensland w~s the lowest in Anstralin. EYen tltic morning hon. members opposite admitted that Q.ucenslanc1 suffered least from the clepres· si on and ye ·•tort1ay the Premier admitted that Queensland lwc1 suffered lca~t during the depression. He quoted figures to show that the prim·\r)' industries hnd <lm·eloped con­sidentbly in his Stale, but he is always ready to excuse his Government by some menns or other.

The hon. member for Port Curtis quoted. figm·c·. sho•• ing the unemployment position iu tl1e ok!er countries of the ,·orltl, countries with lmgr· populations, and comparee1 them ,,·ith Quee~ls]niHl, a young· con11try with an nrea six time·< as large• ns Great Britain anr1 fre­lanc1. Yet the Gon•rmnent are so impotent that the)' haYe 32,:)08 registered unemployed in the. State, a greater number than \Yhcn thev assumed oflice. 'rhat is intolerable, and the. Gowrmnent should be perfectly honest rmcl saY, '· \\' e ha Ye failed, >re want ac,sist­nncc. ''

In referring to the Budget yesteTday the Premier said-

" First of all I congratulate my col· league, 1 he new Treasurer, upon the clear and definite manner in \Yhich he presentee] his Budget. I feel sure that it is dcYisec1 in the public interests and that he will have a long and honourable caTcer as ~'reasureT of tl•is State. The finances of Queensland arc in a healthy condition. 'l'he lluclgct that the Trensurer ha' deliYerecl compares faYourably ;yith the Budget c1eliwred l1y <lllY other State Treasurer in Australia.''

If that Budget >Yas presented to a meeting of sbareholc1ers as the report on the opera­tions of the company for the year all of the directors would be expelled from of!1ce.

Last year the Government hac1 the largest rcYenue ·in the history of Queensland and yet could not balance their Budget. In 1935-36 wool prices reached high levels, so t 11nt the re\·enue for the follm,-ing year >Ya" greater than oYer before. .rust imagine the Treasurer taking credit, under those cir~umstances, for the fnct that the c1eficit was a llttle lo>Yer than that of the ln·c,·ious year! The Treasurer forecast another defieit for the present finan­cial ye"r, and so admitted his failure to cut his cont according to his cloth.

J,et us compare our Buclget with the Budget introduced in New South \'Vales. Whereas the Go,·ernmcnt here budget for a reduction of the unemployment relief tax by 2d. in the £1 -no <late of the commencement is announced -N e>Y South \Vales burlgets for reductions, totalling £200,000, in both. the wa~es anc1 special inromc taxes. Tile cl1fference : et>lee.n Quccnslmul anil New South Wales there 1s thnt Ne" South W:1les has accomplished. a rcclnction.

Qnecmlanr1 budgets for an [1li-Tounc1 inrre:tse of fi} per cent. on existing fares and fTnio-hts onerative from 1 Noyember, whereas X ~"7 So{,tJ{ Wales budgets for cheaper railway fares and lo>YCr freights on certain lines for the primary producer.

)fr. ('oHins: They raised them last year hv 10 per cent.

3Ir. iHil'DW: I\o, they reduced them. Qurensland budgets for an increased motor

taxation nmounting to 20 peT cent. New Sonth \Vales, on the other hand, bnr1gets for lower tolls on the Sydney Harbour DriclgP.

Jtrr. .Jesson: They say they ,,-m be reclucc.cl.

Mr. XUH!O: The hon. member':,; Govern­ment have to!tl us that the unemployment rdicf tax will be rrrlucerl 2c1. in the £1, but we are Rtill paying the tax without any reduc­tion. The toll the }fom·e GoYernment decided to impose on the Logan Hiwr Bridge until the cost of construction was met is continned, notwithstanding that the cost has been more than met. It is now in Tcality a tax on motorists using that bridge.

The deficit in Q.ueenslanc1 for the year cncling 30 .Tnne, 1938, \Yas £228,492, and the estimated deficit for the present finanrial year

Supply. [6 OcTOBER.] Supply. 767

is £215,774. The financial year in New South ·wales for 1937-33 closed with a surplu" of £58,87;), and a surplus is estimated for the current year of £7,785.

Xo rrlteration is being provided in Queens­lane! in our tax schedules other than a reduc­tion in the unemployment relief tax, whereas New South \Vales proposes, as from 1 Janu­ary next, to reduce the wages tax on salaries :mrl wage,; ,\v exempting eaming below £4 4s. " week.

In Queensland no reductions are provided for bri<lgc tolls, notwithstanding that the I.ogan Hi,·rr Bridge cost of construction has long been extinguished. New South \Vales, on the other hanc1, has initiated a policy in rela­tion to the Syilney Harbour Bridge that the l'Cvenuc from the tolls should provide neither a profit nor a. loss.

\Vhereas Queensland is budgeting for an inCTease of 5} per cent. in fares and freights, together >Yith an estimated dcJicit of £215,774, the N f'\Y South \Y ales mihvays show a surplus of £6,6~1,469 for the past year, and a further impronment is expected in the current year.

In the past 12 months the public debt of QuecJJsland has increased £1,245,576, whereas the increase in New South \Vales was £3,875,755. Those figures reflect that New South Wales, 1rith a much larger population, incref'sec1 the public debt in a smaller ratio to Queensland.

The cost to the Go;-ernment as an employer of tlte Xational Insurnnee Sehcmc is cstimatetl at, approximate]~", £H1,000, while the cost to Xe\Y South Wnlcs is, approximately, £260,000.

Tho~e statPn1rnts indicate the aJlpnlling nature of the Q.ucenslan<l HtHlQct in com­parison with tl1e ~Budget tlelii:crccl hv a XatjoEa1iRt GoYC'l'1lll1('llt in ~(_'\\" South v/'n]es who took office after n Labour GoYcrnmcnt hacl nearly wrcckc:cl that State. As a resnlt of the T>~licv pursncd bv the Go.-crnmcnt of N e\1-Soufh VValt -J sed,n-ndn.rv industries ill'e

hoon;in:~. thr c:nlntl'y is "1n·ospcrous an(1 the Bni!get has he en hahlnccc1, lmt in Queens­land ihe GnH'I'Hmcnt ~ay, "Vfe arc sorry \YC r.-t1Jn~1t do nnythi11g', \Ye haYc to rrr1nc•c tbr silJgle nwn to 8s. n '.\ cek.''

\\~e ha 1, c hc:1n1 n1uc-h talk about. huoynnt rc,·eune. Let us analvse it anl1 sec to what extent the rcn'nne has 'artncJiv incrensed The (:m •'nllncnt promised the i11illenninm. nnrl haYiHg failell to produee it they cannot re:(­sonably complain if they are sul)jccted to the seYen "t criticism.

The following table of figures indicate'' tlte l'i.sP jn prices of the Yarions 0omn1oclitics in rcrrJ1t vcnxs coinl)arcd \Vith i hr depression rerio<1:~

·wool Wheat Bnttcr Sugar Beef Lucern-

Price 1031-32.

S·2d. 3J·ld.

6·705cl. 91·0~

4·()7 7·2+

per llJ, per bushel pr lb.

13·2d. 54·2d.

7·454d. 87·-W

5·(i6 S·GO

per lb. per bushel per lb.

'rhose fio·un's disclose an inereasc in the price of those commodities amonnting to ~;) per cent. or 30 per <.:cnt.

Tn 1!)31-:l2 the value of Qnccnslawl exports amonntcd io £16,2;)7,000 la .t they alllOlllll.l'll to ;jnot OYer That trcn1enllous lnrrensc in --raln\_ \YHS po.1·t1y due to inncaced prkcs o>·erscas a:Hl partly to the energetic efforts of the eonntrv people.

Jir. Jeosson: Is not that due to tlle good \rork o£ the Governn1ent 1

3Ir. ::'\DBIO: The hon. member'; Govern­mc•nt c-laim re~ponsibili L,r for the increased milk and butter production.

'The increases in the qnnntitiC'' of h1tter, u1p·ar, 2nd \\·ool exportccl \Ycre yery o·1·cat. '/'he only rlrop in price oceuned rlmin'g ;'eccnt t:n•es nnrl affected "ool onh. The 'alue of exports in J037<h 1\'r<s .ElO,()()O,IlOil in t'Xt·ess of the Yaluc of the c:<poTts of J 9:31-;-)~, but onlv £1J0,00() le~·s th 'n that of i 1 e rcconl ;·car 102:)-:26. The total nduc of ex-.Jorts for the fiye pre-flc:>J )J'ession years, , 1 !)2..J.-2;) to 192fl-'.'D, lJotiJ indnsiw, was £:':2,1:31,000 ~innuall\·, and for the dep;·ession YC'll'·-; 10~S to 1 D:l2·, £11,28:3.000 rm!lll-:tlh. H · ,,-;]] there­ion' he noticeel that the rhop iu the prict' of exports during the depression years \\·;1s ,·cry c·onsider~1hle. 1_" et during that time QnecnH· 1arH1 had corn parati,Tcl y less n IH'lll]lloy nlt::.nt Jlwn any otLcr State in Anstl'alia. \\'hat is the position to-dny '? The Govrrnment have

'mncle all sort' of wild promise's, hut \Ye have the gre[ltcst nnn1ber of uncHq;Jrn-e(l \Ye have ever~ had in the State, noh,·ithstandin<Y the great increase in pricC'' 'of p1·imary prod~cts.

It is all Ycrv \Yell to elv1c:_p:our to cDJHou~ fiagc the position 1Jy the 11S(_) of flgnn:s. rrhe other day the S'ccrct"ry for Labonr and Industry \\'as asked the question--'' \V hat is the number of nnemplo.rerl males registered :tt the L:-:tl)our Bnrenux tlnon~dJOnt tht' Stnte. The lwn. gentleman's reply was ;12,508.

The Trcnaurer should lw.-e balanced his Budget. He knows the amount of his receipts and should be able to estimate the exact figure to which he must confir1e expenditure to keen within his income. I cannot :for the J rfe' of me see any difficulty in doing that. The conditions are highly fa,·otuable, as they k1Ye been eluTing the period of office of the JEesent Government. 'rhere have been illrr<'aH"' in tlw prices of primary commodities nnd 0Yeryihi11g hns been in the GoYen11nent 's fnnmr, and had it not been for their greatly ine''' , ,ea cxnenditure the State finances for tlre lnst fn{ YC'lYS should hm·e been in a YCJ'" healthY Cl;ndition. '!'!rev haYe no reason­aLl~ excuse" for s!rowing a deficit and increas­ing tax1.tion, !Jut, of course, >rhen they came in to 'po>ver t hev i mmedintcly incTcased tre­mendously income taxation, unemployment rl'licf taxation, and railway fares and freights, \Yhich hrouglot in a large revenue. '!'hey :ne continuing these increases, and the Trca '·nrer no\1' comes fonvard and proposes further intreases.

11y their policy the Go.-crnment have created moTe or less artificial boom conditions wlrirlr haw resulted in the raising of com­modiry prices and manufacturing costs, A

768 Supply. [ASSElVIBLY.] Supply.

building nected to-day costs 33~ per cent. more than in previous years, and this is because of rising costs. A spiral of rising ~osts call on!;· have one end, and that end is slumll conditions. \V ere the Government to die t~Hnonmv 1vhat would the historians have to 1uitc of them' Nothing! ='lathing lws been accon;plished, nothing done. All that could llc snicl of them >Yas that they ereete(1 this or that building. The;• lwve created no asset, but rather ineuned a liability. Xot one industn- has lJeen est a blishcc1 in Quecnsbm:. On tile 'othCT hand, industries have lleen driYen <t\i·ay.

1~estrrr1ny, the I?n;n1iel' nuH1c this state­ment-

'' There cmnwt be the same de\·elopmcnt in all the States in regard to all indushies at the same time. SonlC' industries nTe natural hl certain Rtates and un8conon1ic in otheTs. Furthermore, the factor of the large consuming population of Melbourne and X CiY Routh \Vales is a VCT}' important c·onsickrntjon IYhen a comnany is establish-ing a nc>Y plant.'' ' ·

\\'lmt are "·e to understand. hy that? Is not that telling the people engaged in secondary iadnstries in Queensland to get out of the State-'' It is not economic to m:mufadure l1oots and shoes here, and you cannot manu­facture rubber goods, motor t:vres, or an•: othc•T goods in Qucenslnnd. You must go down South to do this"? That is wk<l he is telling us quite plainly. But is that correct?

The Prc1uier also said-'' rr1t the re]ntiye position i ich J"ei'':ln1

to ll('\'Clopnli~Ht of RCeondary :in<1nstTiC's in nll Sl:tte<; has been the sr.mc >'inrc Hl1~, the la~t year for IYhieh I h:1Ye had -n;~n1i'S.;'

TllC' rebtiw '>osition has }Jcen thC' same since 1 91~. Ld ns :~nnh·se the nosition :~n•1 sec if that is so. · ·

):L'l'

Yarions

t1tr fignrcR for fac-tor\~ (1nn•1rn:re~

of p~pnlation~ .. e find 1!1r,tA l!~~ the Strncs in the year JDC-1 thPy \\Tl'c~

Xcw South \Ynles ~\~ictoria

f;nc rn ,,]n m1

South A nstralif\ \Y cstf'nl _._\ ustl'alia

492 ;)36

-160

ln Hll±, ll>:o y,•m·s nftcT the year for w],ich the 1)rc1nicr qn'ltcd figures, the position \Y<l~-·

~·:lT South \Ynlcs \'i('tol"ia

Ql,lTHJant1

~outh ~\l~ tl·:Jlj~r ..

\Y c _)trrn ~\H~Jtl':tlia

Tns~l'auia

83:2

611 ;J--1-.)

450

It iYill lw notice11 from the aboYe table that Qucenslaud I·a11ks ~!S the second 2reatcst nlanu­facturing :3ta te of the Comm~i~wcalth. For

the year 1936-31, ho>YeYer, >Ye find the figures to lJC-

New South \Yales \'ictoria Queeusland South Australia IV est ern Australia Tasn1ania

I I I

l ,O~t1 491 691 :)0± 5:'0

From this it 1rill be seen that Queensland has slumped and is the lenst imnortant mmmfae­tming State of the Commonwealth, yet in 1914 it \Yns tlH• second. 'l'his proYes'that the Premier is nboolutely wrong in his conten­tion that Queensland is unable to manufactme ,g'oods. Queensland is just as able to manu­factme goods ns any other State of Austmlia.

Jlr. Walsl1: The Premier has ne Ye!' sug­gested otherwise.

:ilr. 'liiDDIO: He did say that. The hon. member >Yas not here. He Yirtual!Y told us that the relath·e position IYas the' snme in 191:2 as it is to-day, but the figures tlwt I haw .Jnst qnotecl show tlwt Qneensl:mc1 has "lumpC'rl and is the least important of the mannbeturing Stntes of the Commonwealth.

The canse of this is tax:~tion. IIcnYY taxa­tion hns driyen people out of the Stnt'c. The '' S;·dney ;\lorning HeTalc1,'' one of tlH' lead­ing 11c~ ~papers of A ustra lin, a journal IYhose cireulation extends as f:n nfield n~ London nncl other countries of the \Yorlc1, published the folloiring figures concerning taxation per head of population on 6 Septcmbe1· :-

Tnxation per henr1 of population. 10'l7-3S.

£ s. rl. -:-\('\\- f.:::onth \Yaks I 11 ,) \~ictol'i:' () " 'i ()lL'cnslnm1 s ] 1 7 So nth A .. uflh·alin (j ];) + \\-C'StCl'll Australia 7 + Tn ,, 111~1 n 1a I -t 4

\Vhat a dnnming indir;nrcnt of tlw Gr;wrn­mcnt of this State that that shoulcl Jr,, pub­lished in ..tl_ustr::tJia 's le.-,ding jonr1ud, one that ciTcnJntcs throughout the \Yholc >Yol'ir1! Jf a nJan in; say, Lonclon) \Yas hcing appoinh d to the po~ition of hank manager in Au-;tralin, he IYould_, after seeing this, ask not to be sent to Queensland, because if he went there he would lose at least anothn 30s, out of his sahuy in taxation. If a man is trcnsrerrec1 from Victoria to Quecnslall<1 l;y the ( 'OJmnou­IH'»lth Bank or :~ny of the other baukinv institutions his salary is Tcdneec1 imme,[iate(y J,y renson of the fact thnt higher taxation is taken by the Qncenslanz_l rrrcasul'Cl' fronl his salm·y.

~'he ~rreasurer: Did you say 30s. a year?

}Ir. -:\'I:U::iW: 30s. a week

ri'iH~ 'l'reatH1l~)r g .:\onsenP2. :\a 111?~r pay.:c: a taxation of £78 a year out of his salnry.

}!r. Everyone must agree that Qucenslanrl he a great manu£ac•turing-State. There is nothing i!l the IYOrld to pre­wnt this State from going ahc~1d. \\' c ha Ye a wonderful climate anc1 our people are

Supply. [6 OCTOBER.] Supply. 760

second to none, but every fact I can quote­and I have here quite a lot of information­supports my argument that the present Government are driving industries away. \Ve have greut possibilities in the development of primary industries suc·h as wool, beef, and cotton-growing, and gold and other mining. We believe that such a policy should be adopted as will foster manufacture and improve markets and bring about a better economic balance.

I should like to deal with the matter of production per head of population. The Budget speech tolrl us that during the last seven years primary production has increased by 50 per cent. and manufacturing by over 41 per cent. in the same period, and that the national income has risen from £82,900,000 to £113,800.000, an increase of 36 per cent. as compared with 1931-32. Ac·tuallv only six years hnve elnpsed, not seven, since then; and the late~t figure is that for 1936-37.

Accorrling to the Queensland Y enr Book for 1938, page 151, the gross value of pro­c1uction is £59,827,000. The latest availahlc statistics of production for all States are for 1935-36. The nntionnl income is an econo­mist's computation, nnd varies according to the method adopted. It is based, ho,Yever, on the vnlue of prorluction. These figures are hard to get and T ha,-e written to the Com­monwealth Stntistician for the production statistics for all States for 1936-37. On 7 September I was informed that thev would be forwarded as soon as the information became available. I can only conclude that the Treasurer's figures in regard to increased production in Queensland, as between 1931-32 and seven years later, namely, 1938-39, are ,ha sed on somebody 's-perhaps the Premier's -clairYoyant powers. You will recollect, Mr. Hanson, that he often manifests those powers.

The fact remains that the great increase in manufacturing ancl primary production mentioned in the Budget is purely supposi­tion, mul we have no definite facts to sub­stantiate the statement. The statistics I have received from the Commonwealth Statistician reveal the following position:-

Production per head of population.

1931-32 1935-36

::'-iew South Wales Yictoria .. Queenslanr1 South Australia \Vestern Australia Tasmania

£ £ 44.51 47.2 48.75 46.21 57.33 38.92

59.8 61.26 56.88 60.37 72.24 49.71

With the exception of little Tasmania, Queens­land hns the lowest production per head of population in the whole of the Commonwealth. Yet the Treasurer has the temerity to insinu­ate thnt we have a wonderful production per head.

1Ur. Uiordan: Do you represent an elec­torate in another State or one in Queensland?

.:ur. NBHIO: The only other source of information relative to national income is

19:JH-2B

that contained in the 1938 report of the Commonwcnlth Grants Commission, where, at page 75, these figures showing the relative taxable capacity for 1936-37 appear-

New South Wales 120 Victoria 119 Queensland 95 South Australia 89 \Vestern Australia 100 'l'asmania 78

These figures show the severity of taxation in the same year-

Now South Wales 92 Victoria 77 Queensland 131 South Australia 103 Western Australia 104 Tasmania 93

'l'akc it from any angle you like, the Budget is far from flattering to the Treasurer.

I cannot understand why 'IVe have had no announcement concerning the date of the reduction in relief tax. The Government have made huge economies-I say wrongly-in the employment of men on re~ief >vo.rk, :fet the same ~mount of revenue rs commg rn and there is no intimation of when the tax will be reduced. At the end of this financial year every' taxpayer will be called upon t? pay the full r:1te of relief tax up to the trmc when the Bill is passed by this Chamber. Despite all those circumstances, we have this dastardly tTeatment meted out to the unfortunate people who are still on relief work.

'l'be Secretary for Public Lands: Whom you are trying to exploit.

3Ir. NDilUO: I am not trying to exploit them. I know that the Secretary for Public Lands is doing his best and I know that his fnmily are doing their best, but I am not blaming him personally, I am blaming the Government collectively. What is the treat­ment that is being meted out to these people? Do you know, Mr. Hanson, that if we had introduced this scheme and had handed every relief wor],er a ticket to go to some job in the eountTv there would have been a terrible ho,Yl fronl' the party opposite if they had been in opposition. They would have said, '' '\Vhy arc you sending the men away out thcTe"?'' A relief \rorker with a wife and three children was entitled to £2 Js. 8d. a ~week, little enough it is true, but to-day he must accept £1 Ss. 3d. in rations. So far as the Government are concerned, if a man is offered a job and he says, ''I have a doctor'& certificate, I am not well, I cannot go to the job," the GoveTnment say, "If y~n do,not go to the job you will lose your ratrons.

The SecretaJ'y for Public Lands: That is not true.

.Jir. NI!U:.liO: " The wife and children will get rations, but you will get no rations your­self,'' he is told.

Tlle Secretary for Public Lands: That is not tn1e if he has a doctor's certificate .

.JJr. NHDW: If that is so, then listen to this, \Yhich appears in ''Truth,'' a paper

770 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

that supports the present Government. In its i&~ue of Sunday, 2 October, the following appears:-

''Sick when Sent to Country.

"IVorker Died on Job.

·' J<'or nine years Harold Norman .T olms­son, of Manly, \Yas a relief worker. A widower with nine children, he was one of the first to be offered full-time work under the Government's new scheme. He protested, it is claimed, at being sent away; explained that he was a sick man with a poisoned throat. He was told he must accept the work. He did. J ohnsson went, as ordered by the Government, to a job at Inglewood-and went to his death! He rlied in hospital six days after his arrival in the ~West ern township. Now his parent­less, broken-hearted, bewildered family in Carlton terrace, l\Ianly, are boYved down 1Jy the terrible nature of their grief. They face a bleak and uncertain future.

'' Those, starkly, are the facts that emerge from the wealth of tragedy that followed Norman J ohnsson 's acceptance, undPr protest, of the Government's offer of full-time work Officially there is a t enrleney to deny that J olmssun made an~· protest al'ainst be'ng sent into the country to work.''

}Ir. JUcLean: Give the whole story.

::\Ir. NBDIO: I am not going to hide any­thin~·. Th·~ fact remains that the Govern­ment should Sl'C that no relief worker is sent :nvny to nn isolrrtecl camp in that rough ~ountry in the Tngle\\·ood district unless he is ph;-sienlly fit to stn])(] up to the "·ork his job will cnt~:til.

}!r. H. Williams: Read the last part of pnragraph.

}Ir. NHDIO: I know there are members on th0 (io•.-ernmcnt benches who are in svmnathv ll'ith IYhat I snv and \YllO clesirP that' th~S<' Telief workeTs ·should get a fair deal, bnt the fact remains that the m8jority of the C:overmncnt members insist that relief 1vorkcr:o ''~ho~tl<l go to the jobs allocated to t hent. The systen1 needs rectifying.

nc•foro a man is taltcn off relief work anrl -ent i<l a job in tlw country he should know just where that job is, anrl any man whose physical condition is impaired should T8Ceivc lllcdic:ll nttcntion and his heaHh should be improHrl lwfnrc he ifl sent to a job, anrl pos­sibly, as in the instance I quoted, to his d~ath.

The Secretary for Public Lands: ThDt man ne\·e1· askerl tlnt he should not be sent. :\Ir. \Ynlsh said he nc,-er approached the rll']"'rtn,cnt mu! asked that he be not sent.

l\Ir. ::\'DHIO: There are many matters tl:at required to be Tectifierl. 'l'he Premier i~ {·ontinn;tlly rising in this IIonse and 1naking <·ontradictory statements, He camouflages his statenwnts with words. That was so with the statement he made on ~Wednesday, con­<'erning :\Ir. Golclensterlt, the organiser for the United Australia Party, when he alleged that he was being paid by the American oil

intCTests as \Yell as the United Australia Party.

A Government Member: Is that right?

lUr. NI::nMO: That is deliberately untrue.

The Secretary for Public Lands: Did you hear the statement the Premier made this 1norningP

Mr. NI.rtllUO: The Premier this morning ('amouflaged his allegation with wor<ls.

Tl!e TREASURER: I rise to a point of or<ler. Is the hon. member for Oxlcy in order in saying that the statement made by the Premier is deliberately untrue?

The CHAIRlUAN: Order! As the state­ment made by the hon. member is objected to. I ask him to withdraw it.

l'IIr. NDIJUO: Seeing that the Treasurer is quibbling a little with words, I withdraw :nHl say that the Premier's statement has no foundation in fact. Will that suit you~

The Secretary for Public Lands: The Premier showed where he got the money from. (Interjections.)

The CHAIRMAN: Order!

::\Ir. NUIMO: Another point arises from this matter. You know where those figures could be got from.

The CHAJRlUAN: Order! I ask the hon. member to address his remarks to the Chair.

JUr. NHJJIIO: I am sorry. At one time, facts and figures included in income tax returns were regarded as sacred.

:Mr. Duggan: So they are. (Interjec-tions.)

Tile CHAIRMAN: Order!

JUr. NiliDIO: No-one ever looked at them.

J:Ir. ::i'IcLean interjected.

lUr. Nll'lHIO: The hon. member for Bun­daberg interjected that the Moorc Govern­ment passed legislation making it possible for an examination of income tax returns to Le macle.

JUr. :'lie Lean: To crucify Theodore.

The CHAIRMAN: Order!

liir. NEtniO: It is a terrible thing for those people working in industry in Queens­land to think that a cloud is hanging over them. I deny absolutely that Mr. Golden­stetlt had one penny from any other interests than the United Australia Party. I know :'\fr. Goldenstedt. I was on the committee to whom Mr. Goldensteclt and others applied for the position of organiser. He was then out of work. Are hon. nwmbers opposite going to deprive a returned soldier, who has clean hands in every possible way, a position he is capable of filling simPJy because he had worked for certain motor interests''?

The Premier read a list of names. I do not know for what purpose, because all the names he read out are the names of reputable citizens. They were the names of men who had done a great deal for 'the commercial

SuppLy. [6 OcTOBER.] Supply. 771

community in the exploiters, but men gi,·c a fair deal. should be prepared •ntlk of life.

State. They are not who can be relied on to They arc men whom l to associate with in any

What was the objeet behind the Premier's reading of those names? I say very definitely that this Taises .-ery grave issues. Certain figures were quoted, and there is only one eonelusion to be arrived at.

~Ir. Jesson: What do you suggest?

JUr. NI :n;uo: I will tell the hon. member what I suggested. These names were (juote'l for some reason unknown to me. 'rhey are a wry fine type o E people. ·

'J'hc Premier has this habit of making certain statements. V cry often he can have a cutting out of a paper in one pocket and another cutting out of another paper in the othel', and if he went to a gathering he could produce one and sa;·, ''That is what I thought about ;·our show,'' and if he went to an opposition g:1thcring he could produce aFothcr newspaper cutting and say, ''This is wlnt l s:dd. ''

A GoTermnent :i\Iemher~ Are you sug­gesting dishonesty?

.:IIr. NUilUO: I am saying he makes state­ments. For example, when he atten(led an Australian Labour Party meeting in the Griffttlt plcctorate, he made a statement that not one drop of Australian blood should be shed to hC'lp a foreign people.

The 'I'reasurer: He did not say any such thing; be honest.

])Jr. Nll\BIO: He said that not one drop of blood should be shed to help Czechoslovakia.

The Treasurer: He did not say that.

])lJ;. NHDIO: I will read what he said.

The Treasurer: Two weeks afterwards Chamherlain said the very same thing.

:;}Ir. NDDIO: Chamberlain will stick to what he says, and he has stuck to it.

'l'he following appeared in yesterday's ''Telegraph'':-

''The Premier does not approve of ]Jeace dictated at the point of the Nazi bayonet or any other bayonet.''

JUr. Jesson: What is wrong with that? Do you not know what Nazism is~

])Ir. NUIMO: I know what it is. The statement I just quoted from goes on

to report the Premier as having said-

'' I believe in a world peace based on equity and justice. I do not approve of a form of peace dictated at the point of a Nazi, or any other bayonet,' declared the Premier, in the course of his remarks on the international situation which he made during the debate on the :B'inancial State­ment in Parliament to-day.''

He said previously, "\Ve will give the Czechs no assistance,'' and now he criticises Chamberlain for having given in.

.iUr. Jesson: What has that to do with the Budget?

}lr. N DIJI'IO: I am endeavouring to show Jww contradictory his statements are.

:!tiro~ ~I cLean: You are making a personal and offensi\-e attack on the Premier in his n bsence.

The CH"URl\LLS: Order!

}fr. NDHIO: It is his fault and nol mine if he is away. He has the right of reply.

The ra1smg of the railwny fares and freights by 51 per cent. can only be described as a childish action on the part of the Govern­nwnt. The increase will cause many people h say, "\V ell, I am finished with him. I hn.-e kept off motor tmnsport up to now, but HI)' business •vill go to them in the• future.''

'l'lte '!'reasurel': As your busine ,s from the Queensland \Voollcn Company has been goiDg, and yet you were mean enough to tender for Go.-ernment contracts, and inereascd the price.

}ir. ='\Bll\IO: The Treasurer is making a statement that I cannot refute. I do not know about these things, because we have a general manager. I did not know until Mr. Dnvidson, the former Commissioner for Rail­wn:;s, left the department that our company was thP only woollen mill in Queensland that supported the raihvay system. The Treasurer kno1Ys Yery well that is correct, and I think his stntement is absolutely incorrect.

The 5?! per cent. increase in railway rates •Yill not increase revenue by a large amount, but its imposition will cause irreparable damage to the department. It is the little oxtra that breaks the back of the railway users.

I must protest against the increase in motor registration fees. I have always contendecl that this taxation was not equitable, although I do not know whether some other system can be devised. Let us take a man working, perhaps, in the Ipswich railway workshops, or in the Treasury Department who owns a motor car, which he uses mainly for an outing on a Sunday afternoon. Such a person has to pay the same registration fee as the owner of n motor vehiele avemging 100 road miles claily. This, however, has not prevented the Trensurer from imposing taxation on these people who are already very heavily taxed. A motor car is a necessity to-day. Of course, I know some persons own motor cars who really cannot afford them, but the Treasurer has seized upon these as objects for additional taxation. Many farmers in the country dis­tricts use, perhaps, a little Ford truck in their farming pursuits, perhaps to run to the station for supplies and back t0 •he farm. All these have been attacked by the Govern­ment by way of increased taxation.

:rtir. Duggan: What about the tobacco tax of the Commonwealth Government~

l'\[r. NHniO: I am discussing the taxa­tion on motor vehicles. Even now, no doubt, the Treasurer is exploring other avenues of

772 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

tnxation for his next Budget-I am only dis­playing a little bit of the clairvoyant pmYers possessed by the Premier.

Ewrv other Stnte in Austrnlia has enjoyerl large J;edndions in taxation. Queenslanrl is the exception, but here it is a Labour Govern­ment, and they nre nlways in debt and in trouble. And it is not the working man who gets ::1 hig cut been use of their extravagance. ·This aftm;noon 1 charge hon. members opposite with knowing as well ns I that there are quite a number of people living on the fat of the land owing to the action of the Labour Government in creating jobs and making political appointments. This is not good for Queensland. \Ve have the spectacle, according to the Pn blie Service Commissioner's report, of a huge increase in the number of public scnants employed by the State. \Vhat do we find in connection with it~ We find that men who lmYC borne the heat and burden of the day--

The 'rreasurer: You made 4~ ·mc:;door npplicPotions.

~fr. ~LlilUO: I shall deal with that. I am glarl that the hon. gentleman reminded me. T was just looking for something like that. 'l'hc position is that these appoin':ments that have l•een made are white-nnting the positions of the old public servants who have 'Jeen in the service of the State fer many years. We han~ men in the Depnrtment of Public Lands f'nrl in the Treasury who hnYe been excellent public scrYants, but ••ith this huge increase in the number of appointees to the service­and quite a lot of them political appointments -•Yhen the next depression hits us and trouble comes along these older men will get the saek. The men ,,-ho have bome the heat and bmclcn of the day will he dismissed ancl the political nppointe~s will be lcept in their jobs.

The Treasurer referred to a statement made ],y the Premier at election time that I was the shrinking violet, that I went to top score with 67 but I •mnt to tell the Treasurer that I ;1ever spoke to Mr. Story on behalf of anyone who ,,-as not. qualified m:d entitled to occupy a position m the publ!c f'','.rnce. I spoke on behalf of those who "·ore s1mply bei1"1g passed oYer by backdoor method~. 1 dre11· .l\[r. Story's attention to the fact that Pnc boy had prrssed the examination, gaining four As and three Bs and he was not bomg appointer!. This lad e.ame from a good family. '!'he ro~mlt was that I suppose these boys and girls wore appointed, ~nd I :Jm goi~1g to _do it whenever the occaswn calls for 1t. If a I oy is thoroughly entitled to be admitted to the public service, somebody lws to stand up for him ,,-hen so mnn;· backdoor methods are being adopted.

In conclusion, I desire to refer to the charge mnrle uy the Premier •1ith reganl to .l\lr. Goldenstedt's appointment by the United Aus­tralia Party and I am sony that the Pre­mier is not here to hear what I have to say. T have explained already that the statement made by the Premier was a misleading one, bn1 I should like to ask: what about the actions of the Government and the wny they

raised funds and the way they carried on the election? V cry large funds were squandered at the last election. vVe were the poor party. IV e had no money to spend. (Government laughter.) Hon. members may laugh.. We had 11ot anything, but Labour cand1dates could have motor c,ns, they could have wonder­ful signs--

Jir. Gair: What about the sectarian propaganda~

]!r• NOUIO: The hon. member ought to be ashamed of himself for raising the sec· tarian issue in this Assembly.

JUr. Gair: You paid for it.

'\'Tr NHflUO: I ask that that be with­dra•Y~. The hon. member for South Brisbane should not say that we paid for the sectarian issue campaign. I say emphatically that t!1at must be ••ithdrawn because I am not gomg to be associated with any sectarian issne.

~Ir. :Morris: Why didn't you go in the box and make that statement.

)fr. Gair: Why didn't you?

~Ir. :iUonis: I was there.

The CILHR~IAN: Order! I want ~o know what the hon. member for South Ens­bane nw.ans by the term '' yon'' and what the hon. member for Oxley means by the term '''ve.'"

Ir1r. NIJUJUO: I was referring to our par­ticular party.

Tl1e CILi.IRJ1IAN: Order! I ask the hon. member to proceed with his speech.

)fr. NBIMO: It is hardly a fair thing for the hon. member for South Brisbane to come in here and say-you must have heard him, .l\lr. Hanson-with . respect to the ~ec­tarian issue that •>as rmsed at the electwn, ' 'Y on paid for it.''

Tl1e CI-LURJIAN: Whom did he mean by ''you ''j?

jUr. NHHIO: I, personally. Has he with­drawn~

:;tir. Gair: Your party did. You would not spend a penny.

Tl1e CJU.IR]U.N: The hon. )llember for Sou~h Brisbane denies that he directed his remark to the hon. member for Oxley per­sonally.

)Ir. NDrJliO: The hon. member usua)ly get<J out of it that way. \V e will examme some of the actions of the Government at election time and some of the ways they got their monev. We have that club being run in Adelaid~ street.

Jlh. Jiorris: What do they call it?

::IIr. NHniO: They call it outside ".Ran­Ion's I-'ub." I think the designation rs the Labour League Club. That is a club serving drinks night and day, Snnday inc.luded. .I think there are wbout seven or erght frmt machines round the wall. (Interruption.)

The CHAIRIIIAN: Order!

Supply. [6 OcTOBER.] Supply. 773

ltir., XHDIO: The trustees of that club :1re Mr. Hanlon and ::Yir. Quinlan.

":lir. Power: Two honourable gentlemen.

":\Ir. Nnmro: I am not saying anything about that at all. I am saying it is a dis­rcputu ble >Yay of raising money for political purposes-a club manufacturing derelicts for Queensla:Id, serving liquor night and day, Sunday mcluded. I think it is a scandalous l1lot on any community.

Mr. llicLEAN: I rise to a point of order! The remarks of the hon. member are offensive to me as a member of this Government Partv. I refer to his statement that funds we;.e heing raised by the selling of drink for the purpose of sccurin g the return of m cm hers of the Government to office and supplement­ing their election fnnds. I ask that they be >vithdrawn.

1'l1e CH.URiU.\N: Xo point of order is inyolved.

3Ir. NIUL'\IO: I am mentioning this because the Premier has no right to challenge the United Australia Party, a part~· that has tlone great wmk for Australia. The United Australia Party put the finances of Australia right at the most diffic·ult time of its history. It followed a Labour Government when the outlook in Australia was so dark-(Interrup­tion)--

The CH ~\IRI\rAN: Order!

lUr. XBIIUO: That it looked as if we should never ,g:et out of the bo,g: that we were hea.c1ing for. The United Austr-alia Party was responsible for all that, yet the Premier comes here and makes certain charges against that party. I rise here this afternoon to point out that the Labour Party has stooped to very mneh lmver things than even the handling of that rlnh. \Vhat about the "Bingo" that m:ts r11n np to the eve of the election, all for party fnnr13. at Roma street, on Government property? That was taking money from the Jleople, the poor. Only the working people were round there, and the money that was taken choulrl haYe gone home to buv milk and lnead anC! food for the children: It was l1eing collared for party funds.

'rho Go,-ernment are inclictBd on every point, even from the point of view of favouritism for those associrrterl with the movement. \Ve have many illustrations of it. I could quote a letter :nittcn by the secretary of the party to eertmn people to the effect that if they were not afiiliatec1 they conld not get certain information from the party. All these thincts tHe ag tinst the hest interests of Queonslan~l.

T am here to condemn the B111lget, nnr1 to say that it is the most dismal and drab affair ever producet1 in Queensland. I trust that the Treasurer >Yill eYent.uallv see his wav to rcsian and to ask the Leader" of the Opi1osit.ion to form a Coalition Govennnent of some sort in order to try to put Queensland again in that prominent position to which, as the Queen State of the Commonwealth, she is entitled. (Interruption.)

Tlw CHAHDLtN: Onler!

Mr •• lESSON (Kennedy) (4.10 p.m.): At the outset I should like to congratulate the Treasurer on the presentation of his first Budget, as the Premier has done and as every right-thinking person in the community should do. The >Yay that the Budget has been received by the people of Queensland generally proves to me that there is not very much wrong· with it. It holds out abundant hope for the development of Qnecnslanrl, and sets out the position in this State in a concise, straightforwanl, and aboveboard manner.

The lwn. me m bcr for Oxlcy made a ferocious speech and, if I m·ay use an hishism, the most unspeakable speech I haYe ever heard. Jle attacked eyeryhocly that he possibly could, but if we cast our minds back to only last vear, we can recall that the hon. member attacketl even the muses at. the General Hospital and acc·uscd them of stealing the patients' fruit. After that, he is quite cap­able of saying anything.

At 4.11 p.m., • J\fr. O"KEEFE (Cairns), one of the panel

of Temporary Clwirmen, relievecl tl>e Chair­man in the chair.

:VIr. JESSON: As the hon. member for \\"a ne go reminds me, the hon. member nfac1e a veTy m1statesmanlike speech this afternoon.

Jir. NIJUlnO: Mr. O'Keefe, I rise to a point of order. I deny baYing saic1 in Parlia­ment last session that the nuTses stole fruit from the patients. I rrsk for the withdTawal of that statement.

Tlw 'J.'EJIPORARY CHAIRlUAN: I ask the hon. member for KennedY to withdraw the statement. ··

1Ur. J:ESSON: lVfr. O'Keefe I really can­not withdraw an~·thing that is in cold, hard, solitl print in '' TTansarrl,'' bnt to save any fuTt 1:2r trouble T will withtlraw.

Ti1e '.I'ElUPOR.i_RY CHAlRlliAC\1: I ask the h-on. member to accept the denial 0f the hon. member for Oxlev.

}fr. ,JESSON: I accept his denial, hut he emmot tl0nv the fad thnt when accns0d of ncaking· 1l1e. sbtcment he dancccl round it like a butterfly flittin<~ from flower to flower allll generall:· evaderl the point.

\Vhile he was speahng I asked hini if Xew South \Vales Imrl balanced its Buc1get anrl he said ''Yes.'' He then read out a long list of figmes from a newspaper, figures that hacl hcen reac1icd up for the oecasion, without taking into COJlsilleration a lot of essent-ial items. \\'hen I ngain a';ked him if New Ronth \Vales hnc1 lmlun~r·l its Budget he did not renlv until he h:l<l read an article in tlw P1;e~s anrl then Le snid, "Yes, they halaneetl their Bur1get.'' Let us see how far they dicl balance thceiT Burlgct.

The hon. member fniletl to mention that this appcarecl in ihc Syllney ''Bulletin,'' a paper equal to the stanclarcl ot the one from whieh he quoterl-

' ':\T r. SteYens, the Sydney Premier, reports that his 19:l7-3S operations gave him a surplus of £.):J,875, and ho expects one of just {)!l £8,000 this year.''

77J Suppty. [ASSEMBLY.; Supply.

But Mr. Spence, the New South Wales A uuitor-General, takes a different view. This is wllat the same paper has to say concerning his view of the matter-

'' 'rhe Auditor-General's analysis of New South \\'ales finance differs remarkably from that of l\Ir. Stevens. He coldly declares that there was no real surplus last year, and that there hasn't been one since 1928-29. Cer­tainly, 'the Consolidated HeYenue ~'und ehowed a surplus of £176,670 '-not £53,875 -but 'this was insufficient to meet the net sinking fund charge of £597,226.' Taking this into <tccount, theTe was 'n, deficiency of £418,55:3 for the ye:u.' On 30 .June, there was an accumulated deficiency of £~10 ,643,900; it had been accumulating for 10 yom·s, duriJ>g which paynl'ents tc ~inking fnnd amounted to £8,010,400. Anf, 'since 1931 the loan liability to the Commonwealth has incTeased by £6(,058,500.' ''

1\tr. Spence is concerned only with facts and not with winning Yote&.

jllr. Nimmo: What about t11e aggregate deficits of the Labour Government in Queens­land:

3Ir •• n:ssox: I am not discussing past deficits, I am answering the question whethet· New South Wales balanced its Budget. The hon. member made a comparison between C-t:1eenshmd and Kew South \Vales, to the detriment of Queensland, and l:opes that his rcmnrl's will be read by the general public, :md T am pointing out that the real faets arc that the financial position in Ctueensland is better than that of the neighbouring State of New South Wales.

The hon. member for Oxley also quoted some figures that lte obtained from somewhere or other to the effect that taxation in New South ~Wales amounted to £6 a head, whereas in Queensland it is £8. The comparison is totally without point. If the hon. member was honest and truthful he would make state­ments of fact, and he would know ;what I am saying is quite correct. The area of Queensland is three times greater than that of New South Wales. The population in New South \Vales is 2,700,000, whereas Ctueens­land 's is just on 1,000,000. Comparison should be made only on a comparatiYe basis. There is an old saying that-

'' Figures can lie and liars can figure.''

With a population of 1,000,000 our debt should be at least £12 a head on a compara· tive basis.

'rhc hon. member for ·Oxley has certainly taken unto himself the role of the ex-hon. member for Toowong, Mr. MaxwPll, who fre­quently quoted extracts from the Little Red Book. \'{e all miss him from this Chamber on this account. We certainly miss his Press quotations, too. The hon. member for Oxley produced extracts from newspapeTs from his right-hand and left-hand pockets, and selected parts of them to fit his own little Oxley mind. He quoted from the ''Truth'' show­ing that a man who had gone to work at Inglewood without having informed the department that he was not in good health

had died, but he neglected to quote another article concerning the sacking of two gir Is at the Queensland \Voollen Mills because they would not work their insides •out and operate two looms to provide profits for the company he is a director of. 'l'hose girls would not stand being exploited.

~Ir. Nimmo: How beautiful! Where did !·ou manufacture that f

)Ir. ,JESSON: It is true.

3Ir. ~immo: Is it really?

3Ir. JESSON: The hon. member for Oxley went on to speak in defence of Mr. Goldensteclt, and remarked that the persons whose names were glYen in this Chamber by the I'rcmier were all those of good citizens. I am not going to say otherwise, but a person is certainly judged by the company he keeps.

I desire to bring under the notice of the Attorney-General the system of hire-purchase agreements as now pmctised in this city. It is a fact that some of these gentlemen who arc building up our commercial life are doing so at the expense of our citizens who, 11ot having the ready cash to make a purchase, must resort to the time-payment system. I am one of those unfortunate beings, and am compelled to pay through the nose for artic~es I huy under that system. A Bill to deal wrth this subject was mentioned 12 months ago. Hire-purchase agreements are Teally class taxation. They subject that class of the peopk ·whose income forces them to buy articlPs on the hire-payment plan to pay exorbitant rates of interest. Even a peram­bulator is sold under the hire-purchase system. The terms of purchase are extende<l over two vears, and at the end of that time the pur­chaser discovers she has paid twice its original price. To evade our legislation, the commercial man now charges what is known as the terms chaTge. That considerably increases the cost of the article. The charges for insurance, interest, &c., are not speeifi­callv set out in the hire-purchase agreement. It is necessary that thev should be itemised in ·order that' the purch'aser shall know how much is being paid in respect of those charges. They are now included in the total purchasing price.

T trust the Government will give the matter careful consitkration. Although members opposite complain bitterly about the incidence of taxation thev never raise their voices against the imposition of what may be termed a class tax on the ~1\·orking people. The majority of people cannot afford to pay £7 or £8 cash for a perambulator; the only rhance they have of getting one is by buying it on the time-payment system. Ninety-nine peT cent. of articles such as refrigerators, wireless sets, and other household conveniences are bought under the hire-purchase system. The unearned increment from this source must be enormous. One can imagine how little there is left for the working man when he is endeavouring to pay off an article such as a >Yireless set or refrigerator, or some other conveuienee that he has bought in order to make home conditions more congenial for his wife and family.

Supply. ~6 0CTOBER.1 Supply. 77;_)

l trust that the Government will have the matter thoroughly investigated and that as n result of that investigation there will be n reduction in interest charges on the fiat rate method under hire-pm·chase agreements, which hangs like a limpet on the working class.

I wish to refer to the conduct of that thin friend of onn, the hon, member for East Toowoomba. The following appears in to-day's '' Telegmph' '-

''}'or member to get some pies and coffee.

''Another M.L.A. throws coins to Iloor of House.''

The hon. member for E•ast Toowoomba seeks to camouflage his bitter statements against the Govemmcnt by adopting the role of a smart Alec or do1Yn. The hon. member has indulged in personalities since he has been in this House. I shall take strong exceptio•1 to any fmther insult from the hon. membe1·. During the debate on the Address in Reply the hcm. nJc•ml1er gave me the title of Sir Cccil Georgc .J e~son. The acceptance of rr title is against tile policy of the party to which I belong, and anyhow I do not wish to have one confel'l'cd on me-not even bv the King. '

Both the hon. member for East Too\Yoomba and tho hem. member for \Vynnum have said that the Government got into power on a minority vote. I wish to point out that their conclusions are based on false premises. 'They should be the last people to speak about a minority vote. The hon. member for East Toowoomba receiYed only 31 per cent. of the primary votes, and after the preference Yotes h::td been distributed his total was only about 43 per cent. of tl:e number of votes JlO!lc<l. The same applies to the hon. member for \Yvnnum. That hon. member onlv reeoived :n rei· ccn t. of the primary votes, and when tlw prefercnc·c ,·otes were counted his total was under 50 per cent.

T1re hon. member for Albert has said noth· ing about this. Circumstances pro,·ent him from doing so, ancl although the hon. mem·ber for Kelvin Grove has not yet spoken, never­thelciS he is sitting· on the Opposition benches. He rccein:d only 35 per cent. of the primary Yotes and under 50 per cent. after the prefer­ences has been distributed. On this sicle of the Chamber there arc four hon. members in the same position, and thus there are four on eith·cr side, but considering the large number on the Treasury benches as compared with the small number opposite the contention ad,·anced by certain hon. members opposite has no substance in fact.

The Budget contains many things that \Yill be to the ultimate benefit of the State. 'l'here is no country in the world that enjoys such goo<1 imlustrial conditions as. those obtainin~ here. It has been concluslvely proved by statistics that we have the lowest number of unem played and the lowest cost of liYing, together with the highest effective basic wage. I,ast night I made it my business to scan the speeches in the Budget debate reported in "Hansard" from 1915 to 1929, and from

1932 to date and observed that the same reactionary ideas have prevailed among members on the Opposition benches. They have persisted in asserting that the Labour Governments are leading Queensland to a con­dition of stagnation and bankruptcy. This is in contradistinction to tl:-e conditions we actually find to exist to-day.

For example, the dairying industry is pro· ducing £6,000,000 yearly, the sugar m'ills of the State employing thousands of men under happy conditions, with the highest wage, the lowest cost of living, and the shortest working week in Australia. The Press publishes information of the buoyant conditions in busi­ness circles. Trade is increasing, unemploy· ment is decreasing, and the Government are launching out with public works in the far· distant parts of the State.

People in other States are investiga t:ng the possibilities of opening businesses in Queens­land. I !mow of three shops, one in .Edward sh·eet am1 tiYo in C~ueen street, that are being renovated to house branches of Southern firms. Evitlently hou. members

·opposite walk round the city with their eyes closed. They do not want to see improve· r;rents. If a shop is shut temporarily th·ey JUmp to the conclusion that it is another business closing down on account of taxation. They do not make inquiries as to the rea·,on.

The other day I went into a shop in course of renovation, and on inquiry \vas told that it was to be used by a large jeweller from Victoria. I have yet to hear of a jeweller's setting up business in a State on the verge of bankruptcy. Jewellery is a luxury and only for the idle rich. The onlv watch that I can afford is one that costs 7s: 6rl. at Wool­worths, and many of my friends are in the same position. But here is a jeweller, a man who sells luxuries, coming from Melbourne to establish a business in Queen street, in a State where everything is prosperous, despite the fact that hon. members opposite would have us believe that we are on the verge of bankruptcy aml stagnation, an,d that it now only remains for one to come from their midst to the Premiership to raise the State to the pinnacle at which it was previously.

Whn t pinnacle was the State at in previous years? The only position it o0cupied other than a position approximating the ono it is in to-day was the one in which it was during the slump period between 1929 and 1932. I do not blame the Moore Government for the depression, but I do not think it would be out of place here if I laid ono or two other charges. I charge them with aggravating the position between ] 929 and 1932 by adopting a reactionary policy, by closing down works, by putting the control of employment in the hands of contractors, by undermining the conditions of the working class in every way, and 1by .depriving the majority of our workers of the right to approach the Industrial Court. Betwem 1929 and 1932 the J\1:oore Govern· ment abolished day-labour on public works and encouraged cut-throat competition by con· tractors for jobs. I know only too well that

776 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

in my own trade I was thrown out of day­labour work and had to fend for myself by endeavouring to carry on under the contract system. I found, however, that I could not pay r.ny men a reasonable rate of wages and compete ·with the throat-cutters. The result was that I had to look for other avenues of employment. Why, in 1930 I saw a con­tractor at Lncinda Point nailing roofs on houses in the moonlight in order to make the job pay! If the employees working for this gentleman had refuseil to get up and nail the roof on at midnight they woulil have been sacked.

.:lir. liaher: You are exaggerating.

JUr. JESSON: I am not. I can produce the man who had to do it.

JUr • .Jliaher: It must have been very hot weather.

Mr. JESSON: Nothing of the kind. It was a case of low prices brought about by the :Moo re Government's policy of cut, cut, and cut again until there was virtually nothing left. To hold a job in those days a man had to be a jack of all trades. He had to be a carpenter, plumber, and painter. While the carpenter was waiting for something to do he had to put on a coat of paint.

The Leader of the Opposition asked what the Government had done with the funds they had at their disposal. He asks, too, what assets the State has. I cannot remember the exact figures, but I know that the State of Queensland owns more prublic buildings than any other State in the Commonwealth to-day, and that those bnilclings are in a better state of preservation than those of any other State. I know, too, that a greater percentage of the workers own their own homes in Queensland than in any other State of the Commonwealth. Yet hon. members opposite say that the State is ''settled,'' that it is clone for. That has been the tenor of their speeches from 1915 to 1929 "·henever a Labonr Government have brought clown a Budget.

When Labour was returned to power in 191fi the Opposition said that it would crash that it would not last six months. What d~ we find to be the fact~ ·with the exception of the period between 1929 and 1932, when the people were in a panic, and when they were gulled by promises that were not kept, Labour has been entrusted with the adminis­tration of the State's affairs. Great works have been carried on by the Public Estate Improvement Branch of the Department of Public L:mcls, and schools have been renovated and new ones erecteil, all under Labour administration. In a comparison between Qucensla1111 and New South Wales Queensland comes out far ahead.

HcreJJt!v T \Yent for a tour h.v ear through Ne\Y Sou{h ·wales. I went down on the New Ewd:nl(l hi<dnYa"' ami came nack along the coastal roall. 1fany schools I saw in N O\Y South Waies were in a very bad state. There were little schools here and there along the roac!siflc built low on the gTOund, some of them llnilt by nnviet labour with big stone

slabs. What an atmosphere in \Yhieh to bring up children! As soon as yon cross the Queens­land Larder, however, you see bright little schools with project clubs, clean and freshly painted with pretty little gardens. In New South Wales many of the schools are a dis­grace to any civilised community.

'l'he other Government buildings of this State are also in a good state of preservation. Schools that were closeil do>Yn in the past have been reopened and many new schools have been built. The Government have done expen­siYe work in pre-natal and baby clinics and in mothercraft and other departments that have cost money. They have reformed tlJB hospital system, they have attendeil to the needs of the people in the country towns. I heard it said only the other clay that certain public servants in my electorate, through the conscientious way in which they looked afte:r the interests of the farming community and the general public, and shown them how to go about things, have saved them many pounds.

In the past fanners ha\'O been powder and shot for half the commission agents: and taxa­tion experts. A man came down to see me who was charged £4 4s. by an agent who went to the State Insurance Commissioner to rlo something that I could have done in five minutes.' The man had to draw some of his compensation in advance so that he could pay this man who took on the job. Government sen·ants have been able to cut out much of that sort of thing under Labour Government.

I am kacling up to my point that these things cost money, and a lot of money. I ask hon. members opposite what they are going to cut. Are they going to let the assets of the State fall into disrepair as they did during their Government's time~ I had a regular harvest in the district I live in after 1932, because the schools had not been given a coat of paint and the windows had not had a pane of glass replaced. I was a contractor, a~d >Ylwn these jobs were thrown open I went m and did well out of it. Bverv other electorate in Queensland \Yas the same.· The places w.ere falling down with dry rot, boards were nuss­ing, and so on.

This GoYernment have stooil up to their obligations, and haYe met their c0111mitments, nml \Vill carry on in the future us they Iun·e in the past.

[ do not want to take up a11y fmihcr tillle nf the Committee beyond referring to the matter of national insurance-though, 1 sup­pose, I am but a voice in the \Yilderness­which has been foisted on the nublic ani! the State, and has been respon~iblr , in some measure for some of the increases that the Government have had to make in taxation.

Mr. K Bmbiner, Investigation Office of the Council of Agricultnre, said yesterday-

'' l<'armers will have to bear more than a fair share of national insurance costs.

"Now that the provisions of the ?\ ational Insurance Act haYe been clarified by the interpretation put on them by the National [nsurance Commission, ~m examillation qf the proposals !raves no doubt that the

Suppiy. [6 OcTOBER.] Supply. 777

fanner will have to bear more than a fair share ot the taxation which the scheme hnposes.''

Hon. members opposite claim that they have the utmost regard for the welfare of the farming community, but is it not remarkable that at the last election the Labour Party reecived o1·er 4,000 more votes in farming areas than the Opposition-; Why have not hon. members opposite devoted their time and energy, if they h::tvc any energy, to bring pressure to bear on the Commonwealth Government in c·onnertion with the National J nsurancc' >~cheme, which 1vill compel the fo:mucrs to pay huge sums of money for little benefit! Hem. members opposite ha Ye con­demned the Budget, but they are not justiiicd in doing so.

I have no clesire to keep hon. members any longer. As I said at the outset, I congratu­late the 'rrcasurer on his first Buda;et. It is full of hope, it means progress, and it has been accepted by the great majority of the people. I have not heard a squeal even from the chnmhers of commerce or the chambers of manuEncturcs, nor a squeal from anyone concerning it. Everybody is satisfied. ·rhe figures that I have quoted from the Sydney ''Bulletin'' indicate to any unbiased person that the position in Queensland comparatively is better than it is in New South \Vales, wh-ere tbc accumulated deficit over the past 10 years amounted to £30,000,000, and of that period seven years represent the regime of the anti-T,abour Government under Mr. Stevens.

3Ir. W},LSH (Mirani) (4.42 p.m.): The congratulations that have been bestowed on the Treasurer on the introduction of his first Budget are fully justified, because it reveals n very cautious handling of the finances of the Stntc ever since the Government have been in power. One remembers very clearly the mess tlm t the finances of the State vvere in when the ~1oore Government were turned out of office, and that is not the view only of hon. memhers on this side of the Committee. Even the present High Commissioner of Aus­tralia, the Right Hon. S. M. Bruce, when Prime Minister of this country, found it necessary to \Yarn the Moore Government that unless they altered their financial policy, Qucensla11C1 was heading for disaster. So that we have it on the authority of Mr. Bruce that the finances of the State 1vere muddled under the Moore regime.

It is to the credit of the I"abour Govern­ment that after six years they are able to intimate to the people that taxation is to reduced by £1,250,000, and if hon. members opposite were fair in their com·parisons of: taxation thev would make that known to the people. The Budget does not provide for any VC'ry great increase in taxation, but, on the other hand, forecasts a reduction in taxa­tion by :£1,250,000 and, what is better still, it is to be li ftcd from the shoulders of the people who can ill afford to pay it. That is something to the credit uf this Government, and it shows that the finances of the State haYe been properly managed when the Govern-

ment are able to make such a heavv reduction in taxation in so short a period. •

On the other hand, members of the Opposi­tion overlook the fact that the Federal Budget for the cnnent year, in fnct eYery Budget brought clown by the Pederal Government, proYidcs for incruscs in indirect taxation. That taxation falls more heavily on the basic­\Yage worker and the producer. Recently the E'edeTal Goven1ment increased the sales ta.x as well as other forms of taxation. In addi­tion the people will hav-e to meet the charges under the Xational Insurance Scheme, which wi]] come into operation at the end of this yeaT. 'l'hcse will be a heavy burden not only on the State GoYcTnment as an employer but also on all sections of the community. They will be a vPr~- heavy burden on the farming community pnrtieularly, as it provides no benefits for them. When hon. members face their constituents in tlH• country areas this time next year they will have something to stand up to in defending the scheme that will then be operating.

In listening to the speech of the Leader of the Opposition one "ould imagine up to a point that he was making a speech from this sirle of the Committee, because he talked nbout all those things that Labour has been responsible for during its term of office, par­ticularly in increased production. But then he claimed that taxation was interfering with industry. That indicates one of the reasons why the electors in April last were not pre­pared to trust hon. members opposite with the reins of government-their statements on the hustings \Yere so conflicting that the people wondered \Yhat the real facts were.

\Ve had the Leader of the Opposition com­plaining in the country areas at that time that too much money was being spent in the city areas, and when he spoke in the city nrcas, he complained that too much money \Yas being spent in certain parts of the coun­try. (Opposition dissent.) My statement cannot be refuted. The hon. gentleman made snecial reference to some of the northern districts. Does he expect to gain the con­fidence of the people by such statements~ Is it any \Yonder that he and his party are where they are~ They will remain there for many years if they continue to make such statements.

The Leader of the Opposition also said that when the Moore Government took office values of primary products were very low, and as a result the finances of the State suffered accordingly. I invite the hon. gentleman to give in his next speech the movement in the values of the commodities that we depend on for our export trade. If he does so we shall finr1 that butter and sugar prices are considerably lower to·day than \Yhen his party were in office. I nclmit that to-day the price of wool is slightly higher, but to set that off it must be remembered that three :·ears ago there raged in the pastoral areas one of the worst droughts experienced in the history of Queensland. That must have a levelling-up effect in making comparisons.

At 4.49 p.m.,

'!'he CHAIR~IAN resumed the chair.

Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

~Ir. W ALSH: I point out to the Leader of the Opposition, too, that despite the decreased values of butter and sugar on the overseas markets, production has increased, in many instances by 200 and 300 per cent., solely as a result of the encouraging policy instituted by this Government. It is no nse the hon. gentleman arguing that the Govern­ment's policy has retarded primary produc­tion generally if we can shmv figures to prove that it has expanded during that period. The hon. gentleman must have known this fact wh1n making his statement, because each month each hon. member is supplied with "The Economie News,'' a very useful little bulletin that supplies that information.

I suggest to the hon. gentleman that when making reference to increased values, it is pertinent that the figures themselves should be put on record. I propose to do so. The overseas butter values during the Moore Government's period of office were-

s. (t.

1929 169 9 per CIYt.

]930 122 6 per ~wt. 10:n llO 6 per cwt.

When the Labour Government came into power in 1932 the value had dropped to 99s. Gd., compared with 169s. in 1929. The figures for the following years are-

s. d.

1933 81 3 1934 70 G 1935 89 9 1936 100 0 1937 110 0

'l'hat is a fair comparison to make. In actual fact the export values have been lo>ver during the period this Government have been in office than they were during the period hon. members opposite were in control. As I pointed out previously, it was the encouraging rural policy pursuel1 by the Government that brought about expansion in the volume of export aml so swelled the wealth pwduction of the State.

One of the points the Leader of the Opposi­tion made against the Budget was that only about £15,000 was provided for rural develop­ment. The hon. gentleman conveniently over­looks the fact that there arc many othJr avenues in which money is expended in rural development than the one he quoted. He overlooks, for instance, the good work that is being carried out by the Public Estate Improvement Branch of the Department of Public Lands in road deYelopment. This is cogent eYiclence of what the Government have clone to encourage primary producers in the outback areas of the State. If there is one thing that will help in developing the State and improving conditions for the man on the land it is good roads. I venture to say no Go>·ernment in Australia can point to such a splendid record of road development as this Government can.

For the information of hon. m·embers I shall quote the various sums spent by the Public Estate Improvement Branch during

the Moo re Government's term of office and the amounts spent for the past three years-

MooRE GOVER)IME:--f'I'.

1929-30 1930-31 1031-32

£ 33,685 49,602 31,242

LABOT.:R GOVERNME)I~'.

1935-36 258,258 1936-37 248,837 1937-38 262,379

Those figmes indicate the sympathetic con­sideration that has been given to the rural areas by the Labour Government.

Again, we find the Government have done much to develop the timber industry, and reforestation has expanded under the adminis­tration of the present Minister, and a con­siderable amount of employment was pro­Yidecl in this way throughout the State.

Another point made by the Leader of the Opposition was that the J\Ioore Government were short of nl'oney when they came into office. He claimed that sufficient loan money was not a>·ailable to enable them to carry out their road policy throughout the State. I ask th€ hon. gentleman if he will give an explanation of why a sum less by £480,01')0 than the sum thnt went into the Main Roads Fund was spent for that purpose during the period of their office. Hon. members opposite talk a great deal about the annual transfer by this Government of £250,000 from the Main Roads Fund to consolidated revenue. The Government provided for that transfer in a proper manner, but when the Moore Govern­ment were in office they actually spent a sum £480,000 less than the sum that went into the Main Roads Fund and no Bill was introduced into Parliament for that purpose. Some explanation is due from hon. m·embers oppo­site as to >Yhat became of that money. When we investigate these matters we :find the policy pursued by the party opposite when they were in power had the effect of aggravating the position rather than improving it.

Another interesting feature of present-day public finance is the substantial amount paid into the consolidated revenue of the Com­monwealth Treasury from the petrol tax, which last year amounted to over £5,000,000. Hon. members opposite say nothing about this, but-with the Australian Road Develop­ment Company and the Commercial Motor Users' Association-set about attacking the Government of Queensland. At least it can be said that in this State they receive a return for such taxation in the construction of roads, bridges, and the necessary routes for motor transport. Wonderful progress has been made in this direction during the Government's term. No explanation is forthcoming as to >Yhat is being done by the Commonwealth Government in the way of assisting motorists with the money they collect in petrol tax.

Hon. members opposite should balance the situation as between the Commonwealth and

Supply. [6 OCTOBER.] Supply. 779

tlw State when discussing these questions. They should investigate the amount taken by the State and Commonwealth Governments from the people of ~:\ueensland and see in what \\'ay the money is being spent in the State by the respective Governments. Obvi­ously, such an investigation will reveal that the Commonwealth Government are taking from this State thousands of pounds for which 'w receive no return,

It is all very 'rell for hon. members to ]Joint to t!w expansion of secondary industries in various other States. ]~'rom time to time the Commonwealth Government have laid thcmselws ont to give Queensland a bad deal, not onl.·. in secondary but also in primary industry. In whatever clirection they could make a reduction of Government expenditure affecting primary industry in this State they have done so, but in their defence policy they have given encouragement to Victoria, New South ·wales, anc1 South Australia particularly. This is all part of a campaign wugecl by the CommomYealth GoYernmcnt during the last six vea.rs to thnnY disncdit on the J~abour :\dministration of Que•nsland.

'rhe sns·gc·stion has been mac1c that the GovNmnen t were retnrnec1 to pow0r on a minority Yote, but it ill becomes hon. members on the opposite side to c1o so, because the;•' haw not made a careful analysis of the voting nt the last election. I fi·m1 that sitting on the other side there are four members who represent a minority vote of their electorates, hut, on the other hanrl, ~8 of 44 members on the Treasury benches. after taking into con­siderntiou the nllocation of the recorded emJ­tingent votE's, were returned with absolute majorities. The figures for the four Opposi­tion tnemhcrs are-

Edwards Madden .. Davies

Total

~ANA:-;[(10.

Primary Votes.

3,719 2,524 2,476

8,719

After allocation of preferences-

Rdwards Against .. ··I ..

4,079 4,MO

ALllERT.

Primary Votes.

Per cent. of Total Votes.

46·8 53·2

Per Cent. of Total Vote•.

-·------1------------Plnnkett Bray Elliott Gray

Total

3,713 2,622 1,542 1,287

9,156

After allocation of preferences-

Plnnkett Against .. ··I .. 4,195

4,971 44·6 55·4

Annand Kane Yeates

Total

EAST 'rOOWOOMBA.

Primary Votes.

1,986 3,831 2,626

8,443

After allocation of preferences-

Yeates Against .. ··I .. 4,198

4,258

Per Cent. of Total Votes.

49·7 50·3

The hon. member for East Toowoomba was actually seeoncl in the primary voting. There we have a. eknr revelation of a minority vote. The same npplios to tho hon. member for Wymmm, who "·as so emphatic in his state­ments about the minority votes of this Government.

1Ur. Edwards: Are you claiming all the Social Credit votes'

lUr. WALSH: We claim them only to this extent-that they were recorded agninst iho momhers of the Opposition. We do not claim an:' association with an.v party other tkm tho Labour Party. The Opposition are concenwd 1vith every section that is opposed to Labour.

Taking the same basis of calculation, the position "·ith regard to the hon. member for Kelvin Grove was-

KELVIN GROYE.

Prirnary Yotes.

Per cent. of Total Votes.

------------------1------

:Morris Waters Ralph

Total

3,68<· 4,:375 2,229

10,228

After allocation of preferences-

Morris .. Against .. ··I ..

4,779 5,509

4G·4 53·6

It is no good hon. members opposite trying to evade this issue, because the actual figures recorded of the contingent vote rue quite apparent, because those votes have been allo­cated to particular members, and therefore we ha,,e a tn1C inclication of the party for wltieh the voters actually desired to vote. On the other hand, the contingent votes that haw not been allocated arc not claimed by this party, anc1 I do not see why hon. members opposite should claim them ancl add them to their total.

:\Ir. :Edwards: We clo not.

lUr. WALSH: The Opposition members do claim them. The evidence put before the Committee this moming by the Premier shows that although the Opposition claim to be com­posed of the United Australia Party, the Protesant Labour Party, and the Country Party, they are all associated one with another. I remember listening to a speech

780 /::iupply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

that was broadcast by Sir Earle Page during the election campaign, in which he opened by saying that it was his pleasing duty on behalf of the Country Party and the United Australia Party to make an appeal to the electoJ's of Queensland that night. Any effort to smother up the fact that the hon. member for K anango is associated with the United Australia Party and other Opposition parties does not carry any weight with us, because our knowledge of the ramifications of the various parties that are associated in opposition to Labour is such as to convince us of the contrary.

Another matter to which I should like to refer is the statement made by the hon. mem­ber for Isis that the hon. member for Bowen had been misinformed on certain phases of the sugar industr~·. The difficulty of the hon. member for Jsis, like that of other hon. mem­bers opposite, is that the younger members of the Labour Party, like the older members, are becoming too well informed on subjects associated "·ith their electorates, because they arc paying attention to the problems confront­ing their respective districts. I venture to say that in the period in which the hon. member for Bowen has been making a careful study of the problems associated with the sug~ir inc1ustr:v he has at least caught up with the hon. member for Isis in his knowledge of the problems confronting that industry.

The Premier: And passed him.

Mr. W ALSH: Yes, passed him, as the Premier says. It is evident that the increased vote he got, in common with other Labour members fo.r rural areas, proves that the people in the country electorates believe that Labour members are doing their job and make good representatives.

Take the position in Carnarvon, a straight­out contest. 'vhere the Labour candidate got a majority of 1.000 against the president of the Country Party. The hon. member for Warwick increased his majority from 32 to 400, and the hon. member for Cook increased his majority to an absolute majority of over 1,000. That is all evidence of the confidence that the country electors, as well as city electors, have in the policy of the Govern­ment.

The hon. member for Isis said that the su"ar organisations had come to an amicable ag~·eemcnt on the peak-year problem. I do not know what the hon. member's idea of an amicable agreement is. If you get 12 in a conference voting one way and 11 voting another, I fail to see how that can be con­sidered an amicable agreement. Again. it must be remembered that the representative of the Colonial Sugar Refining Company, Sir Philip Goldfinch, was the deciding factor, because he gave his vote to the side that favoured retaining the present position.

In this matter it has been made clear by the Premier that he does not propose to take the interest of anv one district into considera­tion. That is the view I also take. If anY legislation is to be passed that affects m~r electorate, and I am satisfied that the new ::Jkcations are made on a just basis after a

careful analvsis of the problem, the people there "'ill siri'1ply have to put up with it.

Tile Premier: No question is ever settled unless it is settled right.

lUr. WALSH: That is an attitude that this GoYCrnment have taken at all times; it is the Government's duty to sec that the indm:­trv as a whole is protected, not one distl·irt rather th::m another, nor individual farmers. The Go,·crnmcnt will have regard to the expan­sion and protection of the industry throughout the State. It is a pity that the hon. member for Isis does not endeavour to persuade his friends who are continuing this position ill the sugar industry, to come to some equitable agreement to allow the difficulty to be over­come.

If there is one fc·ature of our policy fo~ wl1ich the Government can take c-redit it is that which affects the sugar industry. It is noticeable that all the difficulties confronting us to-day in the industry are results of the~ aetions of the l\foore Government. N everthe­les-', the Go\'crnment have taken the stand that, as the industry entered into arrange­lllents during that period, the obligation rests on it to do something to bring about a more cquitn ble re-arrangement. If that is not done, it has been indicated quite clearly that the Government may be called upon to do it. It has always been stressed by the Premier in this Chainber that he has no desire to inter­fere with the organisation in the industry. I think that is a very good policy, because the industry has developed and expanded \'ery considerably under it. One can appre­ciate the Government's desire to keep out of this brawl between the sections of the indus­try, if the industTJ can solve the problem for itself.

The hon. member for Isis appears to t3ke up the attitude that in peak-year schemes new development and settlement should not be pro­vided for. That argument has been used in some of the conferences when those districts that have been continuing to grow excess sugar for export are using the argument that they should have some protection accorded to them on that account. It has been stated by interested parties that that is a specious argu­ment. Here we find districts that have increased in development and settlement up to 23 per cent. during a period of eight years, but they arc flogged under this scheme in that they are compelled to take a low export price for a large proportion of their sugar. Other districts in some of the northem areas that have not increased in development or in ~he number of their eanegrowers to any consider­able extent, have the full benefit of the higher priee of sugar for Australian consumption.

I w::mt to srry in conclusion that the Govern­ment have made it quite clear to the industry that it is up to it to do the job ::mr1 that if it fails and the Government do the job for it, there is no good in its coming along and S'Juealing afterwards. I c1o not care whether th-e sq11eal is in my own district, the district of the hon. member for I sis, or in any other part of the sugar areas, so long as thr> fair thing is done by every district. If there 18

Supply. [6 OCTOBER.] Supply. 781

any squeal in my district I am prepared to stam1 up to it so long as the allocations are on a fair and equitable basis.

The TRl~ASURER (Hon. F. A. Cooper, Bremer) ( 5.11) in reply: Time is getting on and although the Standing Orders allow me one and a-half hours to reply, I assure hon. members that out of kindness for them T sball not require nernly that tin'e. It would ill-become mL', howe\•e1>, to allow the debate to close >Yithout making some comment on the statements that have been made in the COlli'S8 of it.

I sincerely thank all those hon. meml,ers who have congratulated me on the presenta­tion of my first Bullget, anll I inclulle those hon. members opposite. I am not unminclful of the fact th·at more than one hon. member exrnessed their commiseration-they felt certain that the burden would be too heavy for me-and the hon. member for Oxley went so far as to say that I should resign. It has heen suggested by more than one hon. member that my eyesight financially is not ]mrticularly gooil, and one hon. member went so far as to say that I was one-eyerl.

T listened verv carefully to the criticism of the Budget, ~s it was my duty to do. I was very keen to discover the errors of my ways, and I was keen to learn from hon. n1embers opposite, but having listened to all that they have said, and having regard to their rcferetwcs to the poorness of my financial eyesight, I am forced to the conclusion that there is a wealth of tTUth in the old saying, ''In the kingdom of the blind the one-eyed man is King.'' I assure hon. members that in saying that I h'we no intention of being luush, and I hope that the Leader of the Opposition will not think that he is above reproach if 1 do not d.cal particularly with anything that he has saiil. At any rate, it

oulrl be an attempt on my part ''to gilr1 refined gold, to paint the lily'' after the very fine exposition of the fallacies of the Oppo­sition gi,·en by the Premier.

The hon. member for Aubigny made some fearful and \Yonderful misstatements about the Budget, and it is only right that I should correct them. 'fh-ey rather astonish me. He said that the 1\Ialn Roads Punrl was not called upon to pay interest ani! redemption on loan n1oneys allocated to the commission, but I can assure him that that is not so. Interest and redemption is paid except on the annual allocation of £250,000 from the Main Hoads Fund to consolidated re>·enue that \vas approved by Parliament. It does get a rebate on that and it is only right a11d proper that that Tebato should be made.

Then tbe hon. membel' comnlainerl that £,100,000 had been taken from- Tepayments to loan fund as contributions towards sinking fund, representing £100,000 a year for five years. I inferred from his remaTks that he thought that should not be clone. It is a quite proper and legitimate payment, and I am snre the hon. member for Aubigny has forgotten the circum·stances.

The Premier: It was introduced by the late Hon. W. H. Barnes.

The TREASURER: I should fancy when the hon. member foT Aubigny was going down South to the Loan Council one of the things that he <1i<l, as Leaclel' of the Govern­ment, was to study wry closely the Pinancial Agreement. He probably has forgotten that the Finaneial AgTccment makes provision for the State's doing that if it should so desin'. At any rate, there is nothing wrong with it from any aspect. It is a repayment of loan money by local boc1ies, ani! there is ever:· justification for using part of it for payment to the sinking fund.

The hon. member for Aubigny raised the point of the servicing of the public rlebt. HC' said that the cost of the servicing that debt in 19:37-38 was not much greater than in 1931-32.

. T fancy the hon. member \Yas not present 111 this Chamber when I dcliYercd my Financial Statement. I cannot blame him for that, but I desire though to Tefer him particularly to the quotation I made from the fifth report (H138) of the Commonwealth Grants Com· mission. This n3port, after referring to Queensland's economic progress since the pre­rlepression years, said-

. ''The drough.t conditions which prevailed m Que~nslancl 111 J 934-35 checked the pro­gress or n•coYery. 'l'he budgetarv statistics and other indicators confirm that view but this is partly explained by the fact 'that, although Queensland's public ilebt position is relatively sound, the interest rate on the public rlcbt is higher than that of any other State, partly because loan conversions in Australia and ~London have not benefited Queensland to the same extent as other ~tates. Tf the Australian a,·erage rate of mterest were applied to the public debt of Queensland, the saving in interest exclucl· ing eKchangc, in 1936-37 would have amounted to approximately £340,000.''

That is an aspect of affairs that the hon. member for Anhigny should. have taken into consideration.

Apart from that I can finrl nothing in his speech that calls for correction, nor anything that e:11ls for comment. If after the time the hon. member elevated to the Financial Statement there is nothing more in his speech to quibble at than that I can say I have re(·ci,·ed n Yery fine complimentary reference from him.

'I'ho hon. nwmbPr for Hamilton, the Leader of the United Australia Party, also criticised the Budget. IT e took up an attitude that I do not think \YaS altogether right. I cannot think that the hon. member is not convers:mt with the faei s. I do not for a moment insinuate thnt he is not familiar \Yith finance, but seriously, T am force<1 to the opinion that he is influenced hy atmosphere. The atmos­phere that surrouwls him and his party will not let him ~er things as they aTe, It is an old and true saying· that one man can see as far through a brick \\·all as another, but I doubt whether the hon. member foT Hamilton ean see as far through a glass door as another man. The reason is his cold out­look woulil frost the glass. The hon. member made a comparison bet,veen the financial

7S2 Supply. [ ASSElVIBL Y. I Supply.

position of the State in 1028-29 and its posi­tion in 1937-38. He pointed out that the deficit in 1928-29 was £165,957, whereas in 1937-38 the deficit was £228,492, and remarked, '' vVha t are we coming to?'' The outlook of the hon. member for Hamilton is so frigid that it froze out of his calculation the fact that in 1928-29 the exchange paid by the State was £3,750, and the payment to th,, sinking fund' £278,115, m· a total of £281,8G5, while in 1937-38 the State paid in exchange £811,493 and had to provide £573,447 for sinking fund pa;.·ments, or a total of £1,384,\llO. Taking these figures into con­sideration it is quite clear, and it should be definitely plain to the hon. member, the financial position of the State to-day is en•r so muc·h stronger than it was in· 1928-2fl. Bnt tlw l1on. member for Hamilton does not !in• in tlw sunoundings of to-clay; l1is atmosphere is a long way back in the past, and he cannot focus his mind to allow him to sef' to-c1ay 's position.

The hon. member spoke feelingly upon the l'eYenue the State is getting from the timber of the :-;tatc, ::mil he saiil he thought the \Yhok of that l'C\'C'lJUC should go towrlrcl> re<lncing tlie public debt. The basis for that argume:nr \Yns his lwlief that in the JT:ll'S 1ong ago the \Yhole of the land reYenuc of this State \vent towar<ls the redemption of the public debt. That is not so by any means. ln the long, long ago when land was sold by the State the l'cceipts iticl not go towards the cstinclion of th<J public debt. l{evcnne profits were macle in those davs from thE' sale of the p1hlic estntc, awl T JHlVe not the slightest doubt tlwt the lwn member's thon;.;hts were •lwellinrr on these profits of a profligate past. '\Vhat >nls clone then and what shonlrl havr; been rlone then me t\'.·o entirely different matters. \11 I know is that in 1flJ 5, when the Lahom

Party c·ame into pmwr, it stopped the aliewt­tion of Crown lancls; it stoppecl the sale of the public c,,tate. bccnuse it \ranted to resern· for H1e people of Qucensl:mcl a very grertt asset. vVhen they nssmnerl office in 1929 the ::\Io01·e Gownnnent immediately started again ~o alienate th<' Crown lancls of the State by ,elJing them. Tlw Leader of thB Opposition Yrill rc•membt•r that in 1929 a Bill to amend the Laml Acts was introclucccl, allmYing Crown lands to Le sold. The La-bour Party i;, opposition yiolently objected to that pro­eeeding. As a matter of fact, an mnenclment was mowcl tu proviclc that all moneys comiw; from the sale of UTOI\·n lands choulcl go towarc1s the p:;ymcnt of the public debt; :cud if the hem. member for Hamilton is intercste<l he 1nny lcok ilt '' Hansat'(-L:' No. 131, page 1593, elated 13 November, 1fl29; there he will fin cl the amendment moYccl oy 1 he hon. mr;m­ber, the then IJeader of the Oppooition, J\Ir. \V. :B'organ Smith; he will also find a didsion list on '' i<iel' his 011 n nam<', H. M. lhtS~<'ll tppears as voting against the amendment pro­

.,osed bY ::\Ir. Smith. Yet to-clav the hon. ;nember ·is adn1cating that the l'cvenuc from cl1c timber of the State should go towards r:1c payment of the public debt! When he '.at bchincl the Government and had an oppor­tunity to vote for an amendment to proYide for that he voted solidly against it. I cannot h•lie,-c tllnt in any of the criticism offen 1

by the hou. member for Hamilton there w:1s anything of a detrimental nature to the Budget or to this State.

llir. JUaher: The money should certainly go for the purpose of reforestation.

The TREASURER: And much of it is going; but none of the money that went into consolidated TeYenue as a result of the aliena­tion of the State's assds eoulcl provir1e new land. You r:1n gTO\V nr.~w tinlbers and new forests, hut you cannot pn;vitk new land for the land solcl by the politie,ll pre<kcessor~ of the hon. member.

)fr. ~Ial!er interjected.

'l'J1e TREASU.UER: The hon. gentleman wants to enter into an argument on the ques­tiou freehold versus ll'aseilo1c1. 1 am a free­holder. I belie\'C in the State's holding the freehold it has. I do not believe that th€ State should be askerl to part with it. Crown lands are the State's freehold; they belong to the people. They are the people's freehold. Why should you want to alienate the freehold of the country? 'l'hc freehold shoulrl be left to the people to whom it justly belongs~tht• people of the State.

Jir. neacon interjected.

The TIUU.SlTRER: We have a fine farm­ing population in C:2ueensland~the -best in the whole of Australia. We are the only 'ltate that is showing an ine1·ease in agricultural population. Owing to the exertions of thi' State the 1·nlue of butter production this Year exc-eeded £7,000,000. Has that been done by a wrong land policy? Of course it has not. It has been done by a Goyernment who have pni(l f

1Vr>1·;r ~t!":11~-ti'~::~ ~::; t:!:::_c :;:~cc.:~~ v.~ il1e

man on the ]awl and \\·ill continue to rlo so.

For n moment or hro let me play on one particular string upon \Yhich hon. members opposite h:1Ye attempted to play a tune. 'l'hey ha \'8 not succeeded in making music, but they k1Yc plnckecl at it for all it was worth and made some noise. They call it motor vehicle taxation. I denv the title. The cor­rect term is motor vehicle regish·ation fees, but I v·ilJ not quibble about that. If they prefer to call it taxation, well and good, but I still hold that it is not taxation. Vlhat a man pays for -being allowed to run his Yehicle on the roarl is payment for services 1'8lH1eTed. If hon. 111 em~!Jers wish to see the thing in its correct perspective I ask them what they \Youlcl think if a man from Englnnd brought a railway engine and truck and desired to run them on the Queensland rail­way system free of charge? Do they not think he· should be told immediately he could not do this, that the system was the property of the people of Queensland and he had no right to its free use. The Commissioner for Raihrays wonlrl be quite justified in imposing a charge on this man. 'rhe same principle applies to the use of main roads. They arc built by the State, and belong to it and there­fore the State has the right of deciding what fees shall be paid for use of the roads, particu­larly by the man who wishes to use them for the purposes of trade.

Supply. [6 OcTOBER.] Supply. 783

I am surprised that hon. members opposite eannot see the justice of the charges that are made. To show how unfair their attitlide could be I point out that unfortunately we have been feeling somewhat severely the effects of a dispute between the coal owners and the coal miners. Transport on the rail­ways has been restricted. Motor vehicles have been taking up part of this work. The timber section of the community has been feeling the coal strike very severely. Mills nre being closed down and men thrown out of ·work. The suggestion was made that this was an opportunity for the motor vehicles of the State to get into running and carry logs from the forests to the mills.

The Brisbane "Courier Mail" of the 4 October states-

'' To transport adequate supplies of logs by road an army of motor trucks ''"ould be needed. Even if transport by trucks could be armnged, the cost would be sub­stantially greater than by rail. In some cases freight charges would increase 300 per cent.''

There arc gentlemen on the other side of this Chamber who think that motor transport should be given every opportunity to rob the railways of their legitimate trade. Some day we shall see the justice of compelling motor carriers to carry out their job and take all the traffic offering. If they wish to be com­mon carriers, well, let them be common car­riers. Let them be compelled to take any and every cargo offering. If a farmer wants his chaff conveyed from the Darling Downs to Brisbane by motor transport, by all means let it come down by that means, if the trucks will carry it at the rate at which the railways convey it. If the people of Brisbane want their produce conveyed by motor truck by all means let them have it, if it will be canied at the raihYay rate. Of course, motor trans­port cannot do that. It has picked the eyes out of the tratric available, taking the high­priced cargo and leaving the cheap stuff for the railways to carry.

'l'here is no justification for the criticism levelled at the Government in the matter of motor registration fees. \Vhile I am on this point, Mr. Hanson, may I dwell on what another State has done. I hate these com­parisons as one cannot always place them on the same baeis. But during the present coal strike the New South \Vales Government have remitted a heavy vehicular fee of 2d. per mile per ton that they usually charge there. I want to tell this Committee what that would mean if heavy vehicles had to pay 2d. per ton per mile when trading between Ipswich and Toowoomba. A 5-ton truck making three trips a week would pay £1,200 in fees over 12 months in that 2d. per ton per mile alone. Yet hon. members opposite want to say that this Government are taxing motor vehicles altog·ether too severely. Why, this State has a lower vehicular registration fee, or charges a lower motor registration tax, if they will have it that way, than any of the other main­land States.

As a matter of fact, the Commonwealth Grants Commission went into this matter, and taking the motor fee or taxation charged by New South ·wales as 100, then South Aus­tralia charged 116, ·western Australia 112, Victoria, 108, and Queensland 83, the lowest of the mainland States. Because we call upon motor vehicles to pay something more towards the expensive facilities that are being given to them, better and more <:>xpensive roads, greater safety and greater mileage, and, at every l)Ossible cornn where there is danger, a policeman stationed for their guidance and their protection--

Mr. ~Iaher: Do you exempt them in districts where the roads are still bad~

The TREASURER: They are still open to use those that arc good. They are still open to use all the roads that are here. \Ve only charge heavy vehicle fees on traffic routes. We have now nearly as much main road mileage as we have railway mileage. 'l'hat is a striking fact, and this State with its 1,000,000 people has a greater railway mileage than New South Wales, with its more than 2,000,000 people. That has got to be maintained, and we are doing all that work and competing successfully with motor trans­port, and we still charge a much lower \'ehicular registration, or ta..xation, if hon. members opposite \rish it that way, than any other State on the mainland.

All the hon. members opposite in one way or an-other dealt verv extensively ·with the £250,000 that i.s paid from Main Roads Fund to consolidated revenue. This appears to be something shocking on our part, an cl we are now a horrible example. Hon. members opposite have been so thumbing the Budget recently submitted in New South Wales by Mr. Stevens that I am surprised that they ilid not fall upon the fact that the New South \Vales Government took from motor reve1me £400,000 a year and put it in consolidated n~venu<.'. To be exact, £425,000 was h·ans­fcrred to consolidated revonu0. T'o transfer £250,000 a year is a fearful thing for Queens­land to do, but if New South Wales takes £425,000 it is perfectly right. Mr. Stevens savs he justifies taking this £425,000 by re;son of the cost to the State of the addi­tional protection and the additional care motor traffic requires. If it warrants their doing it, then it warrants our doing it.

But I have a better and higher authority still. Whilst hon. members llppo.site may not be prepared to accept what New South Wales does, I am sure,, they will not for one moment even hint that what the heart of the Empire does would be wrong. The British Govern­ment does something in this connection also. In 1926 it took a matter of £7,000,000 out of motor taxation and put in into consolidated revenue. That not being enough, the follow­ing year, 1927, it transferred a matter of £12,000,000 from motor taxation to consuli­dat<.'cl revenue, and in J 936 it passed an Act saying-

" From 1 April, 1937, the whole of the proceeds of motor vehicle duties shall be retained by the Exchequer."

784- Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

It took tlw whole lot! Then, out of revenue, it paid for the upkeep and the extension of roads. But it took, first, £7,000,000, then £12,000,000, then said, "Well, give us the lot.''

v;· e lwye excellent precedents for what we are doing. \Ye aTe merely following examples that I am sure will appeal to hon. membeTs opposite as indinting the Tight procedure to follow.

Then we have been pestered and challenged by a comparison of the position of the rail­ways in K ew South \Vales and Queensland. 'fhc hon. member for Oxle.1· made the wonde_T­ful discovery that the New South Wales rail­ways showe(l a profit of £6,000,000. I do not know what his authority is foT saying so, but I haw the Budget of :!\Tr. SteYens, who estimates that fOT the year 1938-39 his rail­lmys will show the very best possible position and will show a profit of £0,000 only. But even that is after the Treasury pays the Commissioner for Railways £SOO,OOO a year to put into his revenue to help the deYelop­mentnl lines in the country. If we paid any­thing- like that amount into the revenue of the Commissioner for Railways for the services of non-paying lines our railways also could show a profit.

Hon. members will not look at details. \Nhere the hon. member for Oxley got his statement I really cannot understand, but he gets it from somewhere. I should hate to be too personal in this nmttcr, but I want to point out to him that Queensland has a territory much greater than that of New South \Yales and much greater than that of Yictoria.

:J'Ir. Gair: He is not in his place to hear.

The 'fUEASL'RER: I cannot help that, I ;mt in mine, as the hon. member knows.

The Commonwealth Grants Commission \Yent into this matter very closely and pointed out that for every 8 square miles of territory that the Government of Queensland has to look after, New South \Vales has only 6 square miles an([ Victoria only 1 square mile. The llon. nwmber for Oxley, if he knows anything, ought to !mow that you cannot look after 8 square m'iles with the same facility as you can look after 1 square mile, and that it must cost more to look after 8 square miles than J square mile.

'l'he hon. member also made the astonishing statement that a bank clerk or a bank man­ager coming from a Southern State to Queens­land would have to pay in Queensland 30s. a week more in taxation than he would pay in :my other State. I clo not know where he got this information eitheT. 'fhen he dug up a lot of stuff that he read to this Com­mittcc, with a very ill grace inclee,[, it seemed to me. Jndeed, it saYourcd much of an ill-kept sty inhn hited by an animal that had but the Ycry fainte~t acquaintance with modem plumbing. I am astonishecl that an hon. nwrnber would ~o far forget himself as to do in this Committee \\hat the hon. member for Oxley <lill this afternoon.

'fhe only other matter I should like to refer to at this stage, is something mentioned by the hon. member for \Vynnum. Of course, it is quite possible that, not having a very wonderful grip of the politics of this State, he would be likely to nl'ake mistakes. He instanced the \Vomlerful example of New South \Vales in giving concessions to various people amounting to something like £263,000. queensland has given concessions too, and these are the figures-

1932-33 ] 933-34 ] 934--35 1935<Hl 1936-37 1837-:JS

£ 229,000 376,000 609,000 766,000 613,000 6 I 9,000

'l'otal £3,175,000

\\T e have given concessions to primary, pro­ducers and other people in this State amount­ing almost to a greater sum than our deficits since 1932.

May I make a final attempt to kill the serpent that continually lifts up its head on the other side of this Chamber?

A Government ~!ember: A death adder.

The TREASUUER: No, not a death adder, because, although it has stung us on a number of occasions, we are still alive. I refer to the suggestion that the Government have not given the country fair treatment in the expenditure of money by way of loans and subsidy-loans to local authorities. The figures that I have before me for the years 1932-33 to 1937-.38 setting out the expenditure hy local authorities ancl Government bodies on ,·arious public works in the metropolitan area an,! other divisions of the State show that we hm·e treated the whole of the State very fairly. Time does not permit me to give all the details, but these are the totals:-

l\Ietropoli tan area Cities other than Brisbane Towns and ·shires

£ 5,696,000 3,836,000

15,893,000

There we have a total of ruhout £25,000,000, of which 22 per cent. was spent in Brisbane, 15 per cent. in other c.ities and towns, and 62 per cent. in country areas. The figures are :wailable for anybody who likes to see them. No matter how anyone cares to regard the figures, they prove that the GoYcrnment have· treated the whole State fairly, and that cannot be disproved by :Mr. Maher 's marvellous mathematics or Mr. Russell's reckless reckon­ing!

I am satisfied from the criticism of the Budget that there is very little wrong with it. Exception has been taken to the proposal to increase railwny fares and freights by 5~ per cent., but the Premier has dealt fully with that criticism. New South ·wales inn-eased freights on primary pToduce last year by 10 per cent., and it has not reduce<] those freights this year. It has giYcn a littl<: concession to dwellers in the city to imluce them to live outside the city proper, but tha~

Questions. fll OcTOBER.]

has been llone in a desperate attempt to cur~ its slum problem.

There is another reason. A fearful noise was made about the wonderful thing that that Go\'ernment were going to do in the way of home-building, hut if they are going to embark upon an extensive scheme of home­building they must induce the people to go and live in those homes, then:fore, they must do somethin1-; in the way of a reduction in metropolitan fares, which are at present very high. What they have done in the way of a slight reduction of fares is as nothing com­pared >~·ith what the Queensland Government have done in the interests of the farmers to enable them to get their produce to the city and their goods back to the farms.

T thank hon. members for the mildness of their criticism and for their encouragement. I hope and trnst that, at the end of 12 months, my anticipations will have been realised, and that we shall continue to keep the State on the even keel made possible by the \Yell­thou,ght-out and well-planned legislation that has heen the aim of the J,abour movement OYer since its inception. Peace for ourselves, ]Ware for our neighbour, and peace for the wholr world! vVe are sufficiently generous and broadminlled to say that we welcome as passengers in that voyage all members of the Opposition and the political parties opposed to us, because of the dimness of their vision.

Item (Airlc-rle-camp to His Excelle!H'y tlw (;oyernor) agreed to.

Progress reported.

'rhe House adjourned at 5.46 p.m.

Papers. 785