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HOWARD RECHAVIA TAYLOR

09 / 05 / 2019

INTERVIEW WITH ESTHER UTJI MUINJANGUE

INTERVIEW

The Herero and Nama genocide took place between 1904-1908.Yet more than a century separates us from this time. Many who learn about this topic today seem uncertain as to why reparations are being demanded for a genocide that took place ‘long ago’. How would you answer these people?

After the concentration camps ended in 1908, imagine those that were left – 15000 people. Knowing that you have lost most of your family members in the war, you have lost your movable as well as your immovable property. Knowing that you once had cattle, you don’t have it any longer. And you have experienced a lot of traumatic experiences: the rapes, the killings, the trauma. What did those people do? They tried to suppress these things, in order for them to start moving on. Then the British took over, and in 1921 Namibia was made the fifth province of South Africa and we were under the apartheid regime. Was

there any time then for people to talk about their experiences during the genocide? Not at all. The struggle for liberation started, and so the focus was on that. When we received our independence in 1990, the excitement of being free and in a democratic country – now that things had settled, that’s when we (Hereros and Namas) started saying: “something happened to our communities. We never talked about it.” And in 2004 we started to have an official commemoration of the extermination orders.

So although it was discussed, it was at an individual level, it was not discussed to the extent for someone to understand the impact of it. We heard grandparents talking about the war with the Germans, but one did not understand what the extent of the war was.

The Herero and Nama genocide was committed by German colonial forces in a series of phases between 1904 and 1908. By its end, tens of thousands of people had died, many survivors were forced into exile, and indigenous lands were occupied by white German settlers, where their descendants predominantly remain. It has become known as the first genocide of the 20th century. The descendants of the victims of the genocide have been seeking reparations from Germany for more than a decade. Esther Utji Muinjangue is chairperson of the Ovaherero Genocide Foundation in Windhoek, Namibia.This organization co-organized a workshop on the Herero and Nama genocide in Swakopmund,along with the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights, the Nama Traditional Leaders Association, the Nama Genocide Technical Committee, and the Academy of Arts. Along with these groups, the OGF have been instrumental in bringing the genocide and reparations issue to the Namibian public sphere. Esther is a social justice activist, academic, and lecturer at the University of Namibia.

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So 2004 was also when the reparations movement began?

Yes. In that year the focus was purely on commemorating, but once these commemorations were happening we started to organize ourselves and put up the technical committees to work on these things, raising awareness, reaching out to the Herero and Nama people living in the diaspora.

It‘s been 15 years since that point. How have things changed since the movement started?

A lot, there is much greater awareness. That is not only in Namibia but in the neighboring countries and in the international community. The issue of genocide and reparation has become a ‘topic’. Wherever people are gathering here, this is what they are discussing. A lot of documentaries are being produced which is a good sign. The media is reporting. If you look at young people, their awareness has been raised. We have certain music for the young people that we call “Oviritje” and whatever they produce there’s always a song or two on the issue

of genocide. We even have a name: as the Jewish people call it ‘Holocaust’ we also have an Otjiherero name for the genocide which is ‘Otjitiro Otjindjandja’. You hear this word a lot. You see it in traditional dances. Even babies being born now are being given names related to this history. The Namibian government has taken the genocide issue up as a cause since Paramount Chief of the Ovaherero Traditional Authority Riruako put forward a motion in 2006. Now they are in negotiations with the German government. What do you think about these negotiationsand how they have taken place? I am always questioning the Namibian government. When the resolution was passed in parliament in 2006 it was talking about Nama and Herero people. It was clear that there should be a trialogue with, on one side, the Namibian government with the representatives of the affected communities, and the German government on the other side. It was passed, but nothing happened, until 2011 when the person who submitted the motion, Chief Riruako, asked: “Why are we not implementing the motion that we have adopted?” It is only then that the Namibian government started to pay attention to it.

What I find very funny is the fact that now all of a sudden you hear that ‘all Namibian ethnic groups were affected’. They are moving away from what they adopted. Now there is just a dialogue between government and government and without all the representatives of the affected communities. So what happened to the resolution? After the resolution at the time, the then-minister of foreign affairs made a statement in parliament saying that the role of the Namibian government is purely to mediate and facilitate the process. But are the Namibian government facilitating? No, they are not. They have realized that if they play a passive role they may be left out. If Germany should decide to pay reparation, they fear that it will go straight to the Herero and Nama people. As a government they fear that they will not be able to control such funds. And would Germany continue to pump development aid into the coffers of the Namibian government if they paid reparations? There are, however, number of Herero and Nama groups included in the negotiations, and the chief negotiator Dr Zed Ngavirue is Herero. By opposing them, are you not creating

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Esther Utji Muinjangue. Image credit: Andreas Bohne

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further factionalism, playing into the hands of Germany which accuses the Herero and Nama side of lacking unity. How would you respond to this? It is true that there are different factions. That is the divide and rule strategy of the Namibian government. The Maherero group, for example, are saying that it‘s fine for the government to lead the process because the government is speaking on their behalf. We are saying that we don‘t want a ‚proxy‘, we don‘t want a special envoy. We want our representatives, or people that we appoint ourselves, to be at the table and negotiate with the German government. Which is not the case at the moment. Dr. Zed Ngavirue has not been appointed by the communities, he is appointed by the Namibian government- he is their employee. He is executing the terms and references of the Namibian government. The other Hereros and Namas who are there are decorating the table – they don‘t talk, they don‘t negotiate. They are not even allowed to really be involved- it is between government to government and they are not part of the government. So do you think that the Namibian government bears as much responsibility as the German side? Yes exactly. I think there was a stage where the German government were willing to talk to us, but the Namibian government came in our way for the reasons that I have just explained. And this fits the German government – they don‘t mind, that’s what they prefer. Now the Germans respond saying: “But to whom should we talk to?” Because you have factions, for the Hereros the Maharero faction and the Rukoro faction. We are saying that should not be an issue. If you could speak to 23 groups of Jews, why can‘t you speak to two Herero and two Nama groups?

The German government is arrogant. They are so careful not to use the word “genocide”- because they know that in the Rome Statutes there are some crimes where states do not have immunity, and genocide is one of them. So they are trying to talk about their own pasts, historical responsibility, they are not using the word genocide (in the legal sense), because as soon as they do then they have to commit themselves to something. Germany has criminalized genocide denial in the context of the Holocaust. And they have recognised the Armenian genocide.

And they keep saying that the Herero and Nama genocide was before the genocide convention. But the Holocaust was also before this convention!

How can we help to change the situation from the German side? You can. The German government initiated the special initiative in 2004, that was supposed to be a kind of reparation, they said that this money should benefit the Herero and Nama communities. That money was channeled through the Namibian government coffers, government has controlled that money. We don‘t know how that money was spent, in which areas the money was spent.

I always ask the local Germans when I‘m in Germany, “The money that your government is sending to Namibia, it‘s your money, you are the taxpayers – are you not worried about where and how it is being spent?” The special initiative came, and we did not participate, we said that is not what we have asked for. Who decided? It was a top down decision. This is the same story happening now.

We hear that the talks will be concluded in April. This is unlikely to be reparation. We will continue putting pressure on the German government. That is where the local Germans can come in to try and convince their government that maybe they should revisit the entire process. Even the issue of apology, for example: Germany is saying “We should apologise to the Namibian government”. But what wrong did Germany do to the Namibian government? I think there should be apologies at different levels. For me the communities have traditional leaders who are legally acknowledged, they are the ‘third leg’ of the governing of Namibia, which means that they are authentic. Go to the traditional leadership and apologise too to them.

What do you think is the significance of the conference that took place last week?

We had one goal with that conference. Every time we have been attending conferences elsewhere, and we said: What about in Namibia itself. Because here there are still people who say: “Herero and Namas are tribalist – they want to tribalize the whole issue. Other communities were also affected.” But we

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would never deny that, we have never stopped the Damaras for example, from mobilizing themselves. If they mobilize, we might see we have something in common and join forces, as we did with the Nama people. So we thought, maybe we need to have an international conference in Windhoek, where we can also make sure that the local Germans would be present. That was the goal. As part of awareness, as part of education, to keep the issue alive.

One of the ways in which you have been mobilizing is through the New York case. This has been criticised from a number of angles. What are your views on this?

I was sitting with a UNam professor at the conference and he asked: “How are the communities being informed about the court case? You need to organise yourselves. It needs to be a process,” and I said that we know that it’s a process, that’s why we have commemorative events to inform communities and to keep them updated. Even about the court case, he asked: “How Namibian is it?”. I asked what was meant by that. “Is it something that the lawyers just took upon themselves?” he asked. I said: no, before the lawyers could do that, they needed a power of attorney from our communities. That was given through discussions with our traditional leaders. Whatever is happening in New York, these leaders inform the communities. After the dismissal a meeting was immediately called. People are constantly being informed. I’ve also heard that we are not doing enough outside of the court case. But last year we even petitioned the UN. We had several demonstrations in Windhoek.

It seems to me that the court case is perhaps more of a political tool than a legal tool.

Yes. We realise that the court case cannot take us all the way. But can the court case help us for the German government to change its mind and say, instead of fighting in a court of law maybe we need to sit and talk to these people? That’s what we want. We want to talk to them. This could be one way of achieving that. But in the time the struggle continues- the struggle is on until justice comes.

The reparations movement here has much in common with movements in other countries in which descendants of victims of colonialism and slavery are demanding reparations, such as in the Caribbean and in the USA. To what extent are you in solidarity with these movements?

Oh yes, we are. Every year on the 1st August there is a huge reparations demonstration in London. I attended with Kambanda (the OGF secretary), and now she is on the organising committee. So yes we are in solidarity with them. For me this struggle is a Namibian struggle but you need friends from outside of Namibia.

My one hope is to get another country to pass a resolution that will acknowledge that the Herero and Nama genocide was a genocide. You look at most of the Western countries and you wonder, would that be possible, because they are all guilty. They are all guilty. And I am telling you that the world is watching to see what will happen to this Herero and Nama issue. And people will follow suit. Belgium did the same, France, the British – how many countries were at the Berlin conference? This cause could be a benchmark.

And the British were also in Namibia.

Yes. In fact two years ago in London, I was asked by people from the Caribbean: “Why aren’t you taking the British to task as well.” They said that these people, even if it were for a short period of time, they also prevented you. So it’s only something that we have not really focused on, but it could be. We also see the British as responsible. But the Germans – you can see what they have done here – and they kept records of their cimes.

How important do you think that it is that more German Namibians change their minds? How much do this community matter?

Yes they do. Throughout the conference, since the Goethe event, you have been hearing people saying: “We are on our farms and we want to be peaceful.” Others are saying, but those farms that you are calling your farms, where do they come from? There is a need to start engaging in dialogue to understand each other’s perspective.

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Would you be willing to deal with those who deny the genocide outright? Would you reach out to them?

Yes. I am personally willing to talk to anyone. Even in Berlin I said: “I want to talk to the very right wing people”. For me, talking to one another, having that engagement, is the only way that we can change our perspectives, to start to see things differently.

What is the relationship between the genocide issue and the land issue?

You cannot separate the issue of land from the issue of genocide. The whole struggle, the whole fight, is about land. Even the war in 1904 started because the Herero and Nama people wanted to defend their land that the German soldiers and settlers started to confiscate.

What about those who were not targeted by the genocide but whose land was dispossessed?

That is something that we have in common. When you form alliances, you look at what you have in common, you need to have a memorandum of understanding, you give each other support and you become a strong force. It is collective strength that you put together. I think that there will be more alliance building in the years to come.

There’s a lot of discussion now in Europe about artefacts and restitution of cultural property. What is your take on these discussions?

All these things are related. They should be contextualized and seen in the context of colonialism. Bringing them back is OK, it’s good, they belong here. But that should not be the focus so that we forget our main aim, which is reparations from the German government.

At the end of the conference you said: “We have been talking about reparation, but I think that soon we will be talking about liberation”. What did you mean by that?

That is open to interpretation. Right now, you go to Okakarara, Aminius, and such areas and you look at these people. Where they are living now, the villages, it’s like camps, some areas are so old that they don’t even have grazing areas for the cattle. People are struggling with water, some people have to put up their own borehole’s or the community has to contribute to repair them, or to even put up one. And then you drive, and you see it when you go to Gobabis, the huge (white owned) farms, some areas not even being utilized. And then you wonder: are we free?

“Namibia: A Week of Justice. Colonial Repercussions: Reflecting on the genocide of Ovaherero and Nama peoples 115 years later” was held between 25 – 30 March 2019 in Windhoek and Swakopmund. The week opened with the symposium “Colonial Injustice – Addressing Past Wrongs” in Windhoek (25/26 March), organized by the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR) and Akademie der Künste (AdK) in cooperation with the Goethe-Institut. Together with the Ovaherero Genocide Foundation (OGF), the Nama Traditional Leaders Association (NTLA) and Nama Genocide Technical Committee (NGTC), ECCHR and AdK then invited to the international conference “International Law in Postcolonial Contexts” (27-29 March) as well as a public event in Swakopmund (29 March). “Namibia: A Week of Justice” was supported by Rosa-Luxemburg-Stiftung. Howard Rechavia Taylor is a PhD candidate at Columbia University in New York City and a visiting research fellow at the Free University of Berlin. His research interrogates the manner in which Germany is dealing with transnational legal and political claims to repair the legacy of colonialism and genocide in Namibia. He also works on related questions concerning the relationship between anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, and anti-Black racism in Europe, and the various different languages through which aftermaths of European colonial violence are articulated in the present. He has written as a journalist for outlets such as Al Jazeera and Open Democracy.

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The views and opinions expressed by the author do not necessarily represent those of the Rosa Luxemburg Stiftung.

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