INTERPRETING TERRORISM

Michael Kagan

NAJIT 2009

Questions

• How much room does the Judicial Interpreter has to maneuver in a non-confined setting?

• Did Mohamed Yousry helped pass messages to a terrorist organization?

The Participants

• Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman

• Lynne F. Stewart

• Mohamed Yousry

Why did I get interested in this case?

• Empathy

• Being a Staff Interpreter for the Federal Public Defender

• Being part of the defense team

• You see a case from the beginning to the end, even at the appellate level

• The intensity and intimacy of the confined setting

Methodology

• A very close reading of all the taped conversations

• Most of the quotes are chronological.

Interpreter as Empathetic Figure

• AR: Yeah the odors fill the room at the time I am awake for fifteen to seventeen hours, ha?

• Y: The odor doesn’t let me sleep. And sometimes I stay twenty hours, twenty-four hours without sleep, because I can’t go to sleep because of that smell.

Interpreter Don’ts and Interpreter as Facilitator

• LS: Yes I am hoping, you know, I’m still... [U/I] I have a number of trials I just have to complete, but I hope I will get them done and ... In August, when I’m on vacation, be able to set this up and put it in motion.

• Y: She says, Sir, by the end of July or beginning of August, she will be finished with the cases she has. She will put the final touches on your case and will try to start at the beginning of the new Judicial year, which is the end of August.

• AR: May God grant you success, may He help you.

• Y May God help you and may God give you strength to do it at the end of August

Interpreter as a Cultural Broker I• LS: [Walks a few steps and puts her hand on the table

in front of Abdel Rahman] Peace be upon you, Sheikh.• AR: And may peace be upon you, may God be with you• LS: And that uh, the visits are always too short,• Y: She is telling you, your visits are short but they

make her feel happy.

• AR: Thank you, thank you. Say hello to your husband.• Y: Say hi to your husband, and the issues [U/I].

• LS: I will, the time spent with you is, is ...too short always

• Y She says that though she feels time is very short, yet she is leaving with a feeling of spiritual happiness.

• AR Thank you, thank you

Interpreter as Cultural Broker II• AR: Besides, add Yusif Islam to the...• Y: Add Yusif?• AR: Yes, that singer, he was a famous singer, then God

changed his life and now he is... that British singer.• Y: Oh, the British singer.• AR: Yes , the British.• Y: [Gesticulating] Lynne, do you know this guy who

was a member of the Beatles or something, and he now announced he is a Muslim or something and he converted to Islam and his name is Yusif Islam

now?• AR: Yusif Islam• LS: Is it Ringo?• AR: The most famous singer

Optimal Interpretation

→ →

Steward Yousry Sheikh

← ←

Steward → YOUSRY → Sheikh ← ←

Interpreter as Organizer

• LS And let’s see maybe Geoffrey can take them [the calls], but I doubt it

• Y And it is possible she is going to put her son on the list.

• LS Do you think Geoffrey can take them?

• Y Lynne, the only thing is I need somebody to identify himself as a lawyer, and then I’ll talk with the Sheikh.

Interpreter as Political Analyst• LS: Farrakhan has a, a, a very heavy reputation, by that I mean eh, he is

really despised by a lot of groups, as the Sheikh knows this, so ah, and eh...• Y: Mainstream• LS: Mainstream, definitely, and eh, but also, you know, he, he’s a deathly

enemy of Jewish interests because of his remarks and eh, you know, people are very timid these days.

• Y: She says, Sir, that she believes, or that they believe, that because Louis Farrakhan has a reputation in the American society that he is an enemy of the Jews, a reputation that he resists oppressive governments, opposes American foreign policy, it is possible that they are worried about him interfering with this issue as it may cause harm, not help.

• AR: But no, we need any opportunity, any opportunity to publicize my case. If he is capable of that, we have to do so. Besides, he is not accused of any crime, he is accused of good things...

• Y: [Laughing] Yes. Well, actually we need any opportunity for our case to be eh, public [U/I] and people speak about it and if he will help us and he’ll speak about it, why not? Especially that he is not accused of crimes; he is accused so far of the things that you told me, they are great things... why can’t we all be like him?

Interpreter as Instigator • AR Uhm. [Pause] Ask her about her future anticipation

concerning our case, Miss. Lynne.• • Y What do you think the future holds for us?

• LS What do I think?

• Y Hmm?

• LS I think the future holds for us a long protracted struggle to… The wrongs of the earth are getting greater and greater economically. Distances between people, and that I don’t think it can be resolved unless people are unaware that their best interest are not in pilling up wealth in this world or in, you know, just…

• Y Will that have an impact on his case?

• LS In his case? Yes, I think ultimately…

Interpreter as Instigator

• Y: Lynne says, Sir, your case is part of a conflict [U/I]; it is part of the existing universal conflict between the rich and the poor countries. Many people like you, Sir, have armed groups, many of them have been defeated and many of them are still struggling. The [U/I] between the rich and the poor will result in exerting pressure on these countries to release or to improve relations [U/I]; this can have an impact in the case of you, Sir.

Interpreter as Instigator II• AR: In what way can it be useful to them?• Y: How would the Americans uh, benefit from uh, me

being here and keeping me here?• LS: By, they keep the Egyptian people from having a

focus, a focal point, a way to push their Movement into uh, a personality who would seize the reins of power, right, and eh...

• Y: Ah, in other words, in other words muscles not brains.

• LS: Yeah.• Y: She says, Sir, that being here is very beneficial to

them because even if your Movement, the Islamic Movement in Egypt, a major and strong Movement, if you seize its driving power which is the brain, you paralyze it. So they are killing two birds with one stone, they know that the brain are here, they have Husni Mubarak, the head of the Egyptian government in place, and at the same time they annihilate the Movement with you, Sir, being here. In other words, they are controlling him and annihilating the system.

The Interpreter as Terrorist

• Y: Here are your napkins, Sir.• AR: Thank you. [Eating chocolate] Tell him, Brother Muntasir,• Y: I am putting it next to the chocolate, Sir.• AR: Okay, [Dictating] Brother Muntasir [pause] what use is the

Initiative [pause] were we declared the halt of violence, [pause] hah?• Y: [Writing] Yes, Sir• AR: - and the government continues to arrest the Islamic Group

members, puts them to military trial, continues to execute and re-arrest them?• Y: [Writing] Yes sir.• AR: Hah, tell your brothers in your area, that as long that we gain

anything from the government -

• Y: [Writing] Yes, Sir.• AR: The least you can do is allow the other voice, which calls for the

continuation of the... hah?• Y: Yes, Sir.• AR: Allow this voice to speak up, to be loud. Do not stop it or silence

it -

What did Lynne Stewart Read:

• “I [Omar Abdel-Rahman] am not withdrawing my support of the cease-fire, I am merely questioning it and I am urging you, who are on the ground there to discuss it and to include everyone in your discussions as we have always done”

• “You Can’t lock Up lawyers” Democracy Now 2005-02-11. Retrieved on 2006-10-16.

Sheikh Abdel Rahman

• Issued a Fatwah that led to the assasination of Anwar Sadat in 1981.

• Spend time and formed a close relationship with Osama Bin Laden in Afganistan in the war against the Soviets during the 80’s.

• He called Muslims on the West to: “cut the transportation of their countries, tear it apart, destroy their economy, burn their companies, eliminate their interests, sink their ships, shoot down their planes, kill them on sea, air, or land”.

Sheikh Abdel Rahman

• Fatwa and plan to set up bombs that would explode every ten minutes blowing up The United Nations, Lincoln and Holland Tunnels and The George Washington Bridge (New York City Landmark Bomb Plot)

• 1997 Members of his group carried two attacks against European visitors in Egypt including the massacre aof el-Bahri in Luxor. 58 tourists killed

Going back to the two questions?

• Did Mohamed Yousry helped pass messages to a terrorist organization?

September 26, 2006

• Letter to the Judge:

• “Inadvertently allowed those with other agendas to corrupt the most precious and inviolate basis of our profession- the attorney client relationship.”

THE POWER RELATIONS

→ →

» Yousry

• Sheikh → → Message to Al

Gamma Al Islamya

» Steward

New York Times

• Reported that she “acknowledged […] that she knowingly violated prison rules and was careless, overemotional and political naïve in her representation of a terrorist client.” www.nytimes.com/2006/09/29

Question

• How much room does the Judicial Interpreter has to maneuver in a non-confined setting?

• As a:

• Cultural Broker

• Language Facilitator

First the Simple Answer

• There isn’t any room whatsoever

• NONE.

• Think of the “Cape Fear” effect.

Second More Complicated Answer

• If you sense a breakdown of communication is taking place, in the least intrusive manner, tell both parties that you are going to halt the interpretation, and try to bridge the gap. Do it as soon as possible to be able to regain your transparency in the process.

→ →

Steward Yousry Sheikh

← ←

Second

• But if you sense a breakdown of communication is taking place, in the least intrusive manner, tell both parties that you are going to halt the interpretation, and try to bridge the gap as soon as possible to be able to regain your invisibility.

To Find a Complete Transcript

• www.lynnestewart.org/legal.htlm