in his own words: former us army military intelligence officer now whistleblower frank ‘gregory’...

7/22/2019 IN HIS OWN WORDS: FORMER US ARMY MILITARY INTELLIGENCE OFFICER NOW WHISTLEBLOWER FRANK GREGORY FORD SPEAKS TO THE WEAP

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Timestartsat43:11

Lewis:WhatIwanttohaveyoudo,IhavelookedoverthecourtdocumentsandIvelookedoverallthe

thingsaboutyouthatIcan.Iwantyoutotalkaboutyourbackgroundfirstofallasaformerintelligence

agentleadinguptothepointofyourunningintohotwaterwithourgovernment.Sopleasegiveusyour

background.

Ford:Thatgoesback38years,andmyinitialjobinthemilitarywasasecuritymemberforPresident

Nixonforthoseofyoulisteningwhocanrememberhim.ThenIwentontoactuallygogetaneducation

andIamatrainededucatedarcheologist,anthropologistandthenIwentonintomedicinewhereI

becameanaturopathicphysicianandamedicaldoctor.Iwasanaturaltogointotheintelligencefield

andIwentin,IwasactuallyrecruitedbytheArmy,initially,about1982.Andmyfirstjobwasasa

SpecialistinElectronicIntelligenceasinNSAkindofintelligence;eavesdroppingoneverybody,jamming

signalsanddoingthingslikethat,highlytechnicalissueslikethat.Alloftheseskillstheywereactually

educatedschoolsenseskills.Iwenttospecialtyschoolsforeverysingleone.Thenmynextjobwas

IntelligenceAnalyst,whichbasicallymeansgiventhecapabilitiestopulllittlethreadsinlittlepiecesand

putthemtogetherintoawholepicture.Thenmythirdspecialtyintheintelligencefieldwaswhats

calledHumanIntelligenceorHUMITandthatisthebigplayerinallofthis.Allofthisissueofwarand

nowthattheUSishavingtodealwithterrorismitsallgonebacktotheguysintrenchcoats.Although,

wedidntweartrenchcoatsthatoftenbutthatsthesituation.Ivehadassignmentsallovertheworld.

AnywherefromCentralAmericatoEuropetheFarEasttheMiddleEastandsowhenIraqrolledaround,

IhadjustcomebackfromArizona.IhadgonetoaschoolinArizonaandthatswherethiswholemystery

started.ThiswholeintriguingbusinessstartedwithIraq

Letmesee,howcanIputit?Fourteenmonthsbefore911wewereallinaclassinaclassroomandthe

classleadercameinandsaidOkeverybodyshutupandsitdown.Well,wewerealladults.Wednever

hadanybody

speak

to

us

like

this

before

and

he

said

Ive

got

to

talk

to

you

and

Iwant

you

all

[to]

listen

veryintentlybecausethiscouldbethelastmissionthatweretalkingaboutthatcouldbeinyourlife,

alright.Itcouldtakeyourlifethismissionthatyoureallgonnabehaving.

Okay.Wesatdown;listened.Andheverycarefullyexplainedthattherewere18monthsleft.Thata

terroristattackwasfullyexpected.TherewasagroupthatwastrackingtheterroristscalledAble

DangerokthatsAbleDanger.ItwasbeingrunbyaColTonySchaeffer,AnthonySchaeffer,whichIwas

absolutelystartledtoseetheothereveningasaTVcommentatorforFoxnews.

Wewereinformedthatwithinthenext18months,theydidnthaveanexactdatethough,thiswasJuly

of

2000

that

there

would

be

an

attack,

a

terrorist

attack

on

the

United

States

of

America

and

the

two

groupsthatwerebeingtrackedwereAlQueda,AlQuedaorganizationsbeingledbybinLaden.Okay

great,weallknewwhobinLadenwas.WedallheardofAlQueda.TheinstructorsaidLookwecannot

operateasintelligenceagentsinsidetheUnitedStatesbutwehavetooperateentirelyoutofthe

continentalUS. Soyouwillbetrackingtheseterrorists.Alright. Ofcourse,nobodysaidthatallofthe

terroristswouldbeincineratedon911.Atleastwethinktheydid.


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SomebodyraisedtheirhandandsaidWelllook,domesticterrorismisnotourforteandtheinstructor

saidLook,understandthisthattheFBIhasbeenentirelybriefedonthisattack.Theyknowallthereisto

knowaboutthisattack.SomebodyelseraisedtheirhandandaskedWhereisthisgoingtobe?What

aretheygoingtoattack?AndtheInstructorsaidthisisfromAbelDanger,theyare,theseterroristsare

nowtakingflyinglessonsinFloridaandArizonaandtheyarelearninghowtoflyairliners.Nowwe

suspectthat

they

are

going

to

hijack

airliners,

passenger

planes,

and

fly

them

into

first

of

all

the

World

TradeCenterinNewYorkandthenselectthatwastheexactwordheusedselecttargetsaroundthe

WashingtonDCarea.SomebodysaidWell,whyaretheygoingbacktoattacktheWorldTradeCenter

building?AndtheanswerwasTheywerefinishingupbusiness.Theyhadpreviouslyattackedthe

buildinganddidnotbringitdownandsotheyweregoingtofinishbusinessup.Andtheyweregoingto

crashtheirairplanesintothebuildings.

Sowewereinformedto,wewereinformedtogohomegetourwillsinordergetourfamilyaffairsin

orderandplanon,overthenext18months,pursuingtheseterrorists,andlikeIsay,thiswasactually14

monthsbeforetheeventitselfhappened.

Onthedaythattheeventhappened,intheintelligencebusinessyougetalotofintelligencethatnever

happens.Itsjustthenatureofthebeast.PeoplethinkthatitsallJamesBondstuff.Somebodytellsyou

somethingyougothereandtheresabadguywaitingforyouandwhattheydontshowyouinJames

Bondisthehoursandhoursofreportwritingandtheyearsandyearsoftrainingthatittakestogetto

thatposition.

On911,911,thatswhentheattackshit.Iwas,IwasactuallyheadedtomyintelligenceunitandIgota

callthatsaidturnontheTVyourenotgonnabelievethis,andturnedontheTVand911washappening.

AsIwatcheditandwewereimmediatelyactivatedtogopursuebinLadenandtheseterrorists.

Lewis:So

what

Iwant

to

do

now

is

weve

talked

about

now

we

want

to

talk

about

14

months

prior

to

911youwereawarethatthiswasgoingtobeaverydangerousthingthatwasgoingtohappentothe

UnitedStates.InfactitwassobadtheythoughtyouhadtoprepareyourWillandgetyourlifeinorder

becausethiswouldbethelastmissionyoudeverbeinvolvedwith.Comingup,Gregwillbetalking

abouthowafter911hewasstationedinIraqin2003andthisiswhenthingsgotalittlebitweirdfor

him.Alittledangerousforhim.Andhesgoingtobetalkingmoreabouthowthisallofthisrelatesto

whatsgoingoninSyria.

(Break)

Lewis:GregFordiswithusonGroundZerotonightinaspecialGroundZeroasGregisgoingtotellushis

story.HeofcoursehasbeenremovedfromhispositionasanIntelligenceOfficerfortheUSArmy

becauseheisaWhistleblowerwhohasagreedtocomeonthisprogramtotalktousabouteverything

leadinguptowhatsgoingoninSyriarightnowandhis,Iguess,hisexperiencewithblowingthewhistle

ontortureandalsoweaponsofmassdestructioninuseofcourseprovided.Weregoingtobringhimon

again.Greg,youweretalkingtousabout911tellingusabout14months,theytoldyouprior,14months

priortobepreparedforamissionthatmaybeyourlastandyoushouldgetyourWillinorderyour

familiesthingsinorderjustincaseyourenotgoingtomakeit.Youweresayingthough,after911


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happened,youwereaskedtogooutandtrytoinvestigateaboutwhatwasreallyhappening,andof

course,Ireadinyourbackground,ofcourse,itsinthecourtdocumentsthatweresubmittedtomethat

youwerestationedinIraqasaNonCommissionedCounterIntelligenceOfficerandtellusmoreabout

thatpositionandhowyouweretransferredfromArizonatoIraq.

Ford:Arizona

of

course

was

the

course

and

school

and

that

is

the

largest

training

center

for

probably

32

nationswheretheysendtheirintelligencepeopletobetrained.Itisbasicallygroundzeroformost

intelligencefolksinthebusiness.

Now,wehad,likeIsaytherewasabout14monthsbetweenArizonaandNewYork,ok,911NewYork,

anditcaughteverybodyflatfooted,actuallywehadalreadybeenbriefedandwewerestillcaughtflat

footedbyit.Andsowalkingintotheunit,theUSwasinturmoil,andthatsinSacramento,theunitwas

inturmoilcompletely.Alltheentranceshadbeenblockedbythelocalconstabulary,localpolice,

highwaypatrolandsoforthandwewereallinformedLook,ok,thisisit.Wereallactivated.Atthis

pointweareactivated.Sothatmeansthatyouarenolongeracivilianoperatinglikethislikeanybody

elseyouareactuallyinthebusinessnowofhuntingterrorists.Weexpectedwewereinformedthat

abouthalfoftheteamwouldprobablybekilledsometimeintheupandcomingmission.

Soweweresenttoseveraltrainingsiteswhichtookaboutthreemonthstotrainupandthenweleftthe

UnitedStates,thecontinentalUSatDoverAirForcebaseandweflewintoKuwait.WeflewoverEgypt,

SaudiArabiaatnight,lightsoffandwelandedinKuwaitandthengatheredourresourcesandwaitedfor

thebordertobebreechedinIraq.TheIraqKuwaitborderhadtobebreeched.Ithadtobeblownup.

Therewasalevy,alargehugebermthathadtohaveseveraltonsofexplosivesplacedintoitanditwas

breeched.Andsowewaitedforthat.ThenitwasadrivenorthonthefamousroadtoSamarra.Ok,

biblicalterms,andweareinabiblicallandandeverybodywaswellawarewewereinapartof

MesopotamiaandwedidnotreallyexpecttorunintoAlQueda.Thiswastheinvasionthatwehadbeen

toldthat

weapons

of

mass

destruction

would

be

found

in.

Wewerelookingforweaponsofmassdestructionandsomehow,alongtheway,AlQuedagotlostin

theassignment.AndwewerejustinformedthatwehadtogetintoIraqandfindtheseweaponsofmass

destruction,completely,thatwasourtoppriority.Wedroveforthreedaysontheroadnorthandwe

tookupinitialresidence,drovethroughBaghdad,andthepeoplewereactuallyoutwelcomingus.You

hearhowtheywerentwelcomingthetroops,theywere.Theyweregladtoseeus.

ButthethingaboutBaghdadIrememberthemostwasthecompletemoonscapeofbuildingsand

housesthathadbeenreducedtopilesandpilesofrubblesandburningtanksthathadbeenhitwith

radioactive

rounds.

There

were

hundreds

of

destroyed

tanks

and,

and

hundreds

of

destroyed

buildings.

Idneverseensuchdevastationinmylife.

Sowe,wewentnorthfromBaghdad,becauseBaghdadwassecured,andIstartednoticingvehicles

comingtheotherway,asintanksonheavytransport,ourtankscomingtheotherwayandwehadnot

wehadalwaysheardthatourtoplinebattletankshadbeenbasicallyhardenedagainstanythingand

couldsurviveanything.Thesetanksclearlydidnot.Theywerecompletelydemolishedandthatmadeus

think,ok,thereweretruckscomingbackwiththeirfrontendsshotcompletelyoffsowethoughtwhat


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arewegoinginto?So,myunitwenttoaplacecalledSamarraandyoufolkslisteningmightremember

SamarraasbeingthesiteoftheGoldenMosqueandtheGoldenMosquewasblown,blowntobitsby

theAlQuedainSamarraokAlQuedainIraq.

(Break)

Lewis: YouweretalkingaboutgoingtoSamarrathatswhereyouwerestationed.Areyoufamiliarwith

thestory,Greg,oftheappointmentinSamarra?Whereitsanoldshortstoryaboutayoungservantthat

wenttoSamarratryingtoescapeanappointmentwithdeathbutdeathwasthereanyway.Andsoit

doesntmatterwhereyougo.Samarraissupposedtobeasanctuarybutitneverturnedouttobe

becauseitwasbasicallyaplacewheredeathwouldbenomatterwhereyouturned.

Ford: IwasthinkingaboutthatbiblicalstorytheentiretripgoingnorthtoSamarra.Yes,Imvery

familiarwithit.NowthetripbetweenBaghdadandBaladthatwastheinitialtripwhereAbuGhraib

comesin.Therewasatremendoussandstormandyoufolksprobablyrememberthat.Therewasalot

reportingonthisstorm.ItwentonforafewdaysandIdneverbeeninadesertsandstormlikethis.And

Igot

my

first

taste

of

the

Shia

Sunni

hatred,

the

murderous

hatred

that

goes

on

there

when

we

were

creepingalongaboutamileanhourinthroughthe,headednorthontheroadtoSamarra,headednorth

andoutofthesandcameacamelandtwopeopleonitanditturnedouttobetwobrothers.Iasked

themIsaidIsthereanysoldiers,Iraqisoldiers,aheadofus,isthereanybodyup[there]?andtheysaid

Yes,thereis.AndtheysaidAboutahundredmetersinfrontofusinasandstorm.Theycouldnotsee

us.Wecouldnotseethem.Buttheywerethere.

Isaidoknow,thankyouverymuchtothetwocamelpeople,thetwocamelbrothers,andtheyturned

tomeandtheylookedmerightintheeyeandtheysaidWell,look, forfivedollarsaheadwellgoin

andkilltwoIraqisoldierswhichareSunniIraqisoldiersandbringtheirheadback,theirheadsbackina

sack.Ok,

aleather

sack

and

you

get

to

keep

the

sack

they

told

me.

And

so

that

gave

me

areal

taste

of

whatkindofanimosityexistedbetweentheSunnisandtheShias.

Ideclinedandwestartedcreepingforwardandtherewasoneepisodewheretherewasjustabright

flashandonevehiclethatwasntoursblewup.Thatwasreallytheonlycontactthatwemadeandthen

wecameoutofthesandstormandthatwasthat.

So,wewereheadednorthtoacitycalledBalad,BALAD.Now,Baladfiguresprominentlybecause

thatswheremyheadquarters[were]initiallysetup.Myheadquarterswasthe,wasthe,wewere

actuallyjoiningagroupintheheadquartersthatwasgoingtogotoAbuGhraibprison.Imsure

everybodysheardthatname,AbuGhraib,whichhadbeenHusseinsprisonofnightmares.Itsprobably

themosthorrificplaceonearthandweweregoingtosetupourheadquartersthere.Wehad,we

actuallyaheadquartersandadeputyheadquartersinBalad.

SowehadoneinAbuGhraibinBuilding1Atheinfamousbuilding1AcommandedbytheinfamousCol

ThomasPapasandtheothervillageaswecalledwasgoingtobesetupatBalad.Now,theinteresting

thingaboutBaladwaswhenwegottheretosetupourvillageIstarteddoingtheintelligenceissueandI

gottalkingtopeople.PeoplewerecomingtoussayingLook,youvegottogetSaddamHusseinoutof


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here.Yougottadothis.Yougottadothat.Wedontwantyouinvadingourcountrybutitsworthitto

getridoftheseguys.

Iwasspeakingtoonethem,oneofthesepeople,whatwecallintheintelligencebusinessawalkin

andhesaid,helookedmerightintheeye,andsaidWell,look,ImtheColonelwhocommandedthe

unit,the

fighter

bomber

wing,

and

we

were

dropping

the

weapons

of

mass

destruction

on

the

Kurds

in

theNorthernpartofIraqandalsotheIraniansintheSouthernpartofIranwheretherewasaninvasion

goingonofIranintoIraq.

Lewis:Sohewastellingyouthis,thiswaslongbeforeitwaseverreleased,asadeclassifiedMemo,I

guessitwaswhataweekago,thattheyweresayingthatwewerecomplicitinthebombingofthe

Kurdswiththosechemicalweapons?

Ford: BombingoftheKurdsandtheIranians.Sonow,nowIlookatwhattheIranians,howtheyare

behaving,Ithink,howmanyoftheirpeopledidweinadvertentlykillwithweaponsofmassdestruction?

Howmanyofourshavebeenkilledbytheirweaponsofmassdestruction?SoIcankindofunderstand

howthe

Iranians

behave

now.

ButthiscommandersaidWell,look,ifyourelookingforweaponsofmassdestructionandyouinvaded

ourcountryletsgettheseweaponsofmassdestructionoutofhereandmaybeyoullleave.IsaidWell,

youwouldnthappentoknowwhereanyare,andhesaidyes,Iknowwherethelastgroupisand,andI

wantyoutogetridofthem.Please,getridofthem.Andheproceededtobriefmeonhowheknew

aboutourweaponsofmassdestructionand,andwheretheywerelocatedandwho,andwhatthe

logistics,thatsveryimportanttointelligenceworkislogistics.Thespecialtiesaboutweaponsofmass

destructionWhomadethem?Whomanufacturedthem?HowtheygetintoIraqinthefirstplace?And

whathappenedwhenyoudroppedthoseweaponsofmassdestructiononpeople?Isaidok,youknow

wherethey

are?

and

he

said

Yes

Ido.

Iwill

see

you

tomorrow

morning

and

we

will

go

get

these

weaponsofmassdestructionthatyourweaponsinspectorsarelookingfor.So,great,great.

Thenextmorningheshowedup.ThisisonBaladAirBaseandtherewas,hetooktomeabunker.An

undergroundbunkerwithbombdoorsonthetopanditwasaboutonestorydownundergroundandI

thoughtokGreg,youfinallyhavedoneitthistimeyouregoingtoeithergetkilledinthisbunkeror

youregoingtogetblownupbyaboobytrap.Ididntknowwhattoexpect.

IwentinandIturnedonmyredlighttoavoidsettingoffanykindofboobytraps.Iwalkedinandthere

were,firstofallitwas130degreesinsidethisbunker.Therewere28,therewassupposedtobe29,I

foundtheotherWMDonthesurfacelaterbuttherewere28hugeWMDweapons.Theseweapons

weresittingthere,theydbeenthereawhile.Iwentoverandtheywereinpackingcrates,largewooden

packingcrates.Eachonewasaboutathousandpoundcanister.Oneachpackingcrate,andImreading

thisunderaredlight,perspirationispouringoffofmebutwhatisthisthing?

Thereisthisbilloflading.ThereisabillofladingtapedtoeachcrateandIpulledthebillofladingoff,

whichisabillofshipmentanditsaysthesearetheP400convertedbombcanistersmanufacturedinFt.

Rucker,Alabama.TheseweaponsareVX/GF.NowIknewwhatVXgaswaseventhoughImnotanbc


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weaponsspecialistandthatstandsfornuclearbiologicalchemicalspecialist.IknewwhatVXgaswas,

buttheseweremarkedveryoddly.ThesewerentmarkedjustVXgas,whichisprobablythemostlethal

nerveagentonearth,theseweremarkedVX/GF.IcalledmysourceoverandIsaidWhatdoesthis

meanandhesaidAsRussianintelligenceexplainedtohim,thatGFstandsforbasicallyauntreatable

nervegas.Ifyoureexposedtoonemicrodrop,whichisthesizeoffog,okonemicrodroptothisVX/GF

youredead.

There

is

no

treatment.

Nothing

you

can

inject.

It

will

go

right

through

your

suit,

ifyoure

wearingachemicalsuit,itwillgorightthroughit.Youredead.Thereisnothingsavingyou.

ThewholebillofladingsaidbasicallytheydbeenmanufacturedbytheCarlyleGroup.Theyhadbeen

shipped,theyhadshipmentdatesoftheseweapons.TheyhadbeenmovedthroughSpainintoTurkey

andacrosstheborderandIfoundonebillofladingthatstatedthattheyhadbeenactuallyshippedtwo

monthsbeforewearrived.

Lewis:Now,whereweretheseweaponsinthiscellar?Whereweretheyat?Again.

Ford: Theseweaponswereonofcourse,BaladAirForcebase,whichBaladisalargearea,itsinthe

centerof

Iraq

and

it

was

the

largest

Air

Force

Base

that

Saddam

Hussein

had.

Of

all

the

Air

Force

Bases

thiswasthelargest.

Nowthiswasinacellar,thiswasinabunker,excuseme,abunkerthathadbeenbuiltbythe

YugoslaviansandEastGermanstohouselargeamountsofmunitions.Bombsandsoforth.Well,they

hadbeenloweredthroughtheroof,thebombdoors,loweredintothisroomandtheretheysat.Nobody

hadtouchedtheseweaponsbuttheretheysat.AndIthoughtWell,nowondertheweaponsinspectors

couldntfindthem,therewasnothingtoindicatethesebombswerehere.

(Break)

Lewis:Where

we

left

off

go

ahead

and

continue

your

story.

Ford: ThebillsofladingbasicallyhadalloftheinformationIneededandmysource,theIraqi

Commander,saidHey,youwantsomethingforyourcommanderdontyou?Hewentoverandundida

dispersaldooronthebackofoneoftheseweapons.Itsaboutsixinchesacrossandwhathappensis

whenyoudroptheseweaponstheypressurizeandtheyblowVXgasoutandanythingthatcanbreathe

isdeadformilesaround.Thatshowlethaltheseweaponsare.

Hegavemethedispersaldoorandtherewasanumber,therewasagovernmentsupplynumber

stampedonthisdispersaldoor.SoItookthatandacoupleofthebillsofladingbacktomycommander.

And

my

commander,

he

looks

at

them

and

looks

at

me

and

he

says

you

just

found

the

mother

load

of

weaponsofmassdestruction.Great,great,ImgladIdidsomethingbecausethenextIdayIwas

scheduledtobeinSamarra,theGoldenCity.

Nothinghappened.WewatchedCNN.NoannouncementsweremadeandIbegantothinkthesebillsof

ladinghadbasicallyimplicatedandindictedtheCarlylecorporationokaytheCarlyleGroup,andIstarted

thinkingourPresidentwouldnthavedonesomethinglike,likegetusintoawartogetridofthese


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weapons?Theseweaponswereconnectedtohisfamily,whostartedtheCarlyleGroup.AndIthought

no,Ineedtoputthisout,Iminthemiddleofawar;putitoutofmyhead.Thatcantbe.

Wesawnorelease.NeverhitCNNasIsaidandbythenextdayIreceivednoticethatBritishintelligence

technicalgrouphadbeeninformedoftheseweaponsandtheyhadreceivedordersfrom,firstofallthe

WhiteHouse

and

the

UK

to

destroy

these

weapons.

They

showed

up

the

next

day,

and

this

was

all

filmedandrecorded,anditsstillinthearchivesofthemplacingeachweaponinsideanarcfurnace.

Arcfurnaceistheonlywaytodestroysomethingsodangerousaseitheranuclearweaponorasa

chemicalweaponlikethis.

WhenIwaswatchingthedestructionIwasthinkingthesearethesameweaponsthattheUnitedStates

Senate,afewyearsbefore,saidundernocircumstancesaretheytobeshippedtoanythirdworldeither

dictatororrulerb/ctheyaresodangerousthatiftheyreactivatedtheywillwipeoutacity.Theyare

classifiedasacitykiller.IthoughtthesewerethesameweaponsthatwerereconfiguredinFt.Rucker,

Alabama,storedinPineBluffsArkansas,andthenmoved,rightbeforethefirstGulfWar,movedtothe

MiddleEastandtheseweretheonestheweaponsinspectorswerelookingfor.Sotheweapons

inspectorswerenevernotifiedthatthesewerefoundandbythattimeIhadtogotoSamarra.

Itsnotlikethemovieswherespiesjusthaveallthistimetorunaroundandchaseallthisstuffdown,no,

IhadbusinessinSamarra.

(Break)

Lewis: Canyougiveuskindofawrapupofwhathashappenedtoyouandofcourse,theconnectionsto

Syriaandstatesponsoredterrorismasfarasallowingfortheweaponsofmassdestructiontobe

manufacturedanddistributedamongstthesecountries?

Ford:Yes,

when

we

did

arrive

in

Samarra

one

of

my,

what

we

call

walk

in

sources,

came

in

one

day

and

thisisafterIhadwalkedintothemouthofaAlQuedatrainingcamp,whichIdidnotknowatthetime.

GodprotectsfoolsandchildrenandsoIwasnochildandsoIknewwhattheotheronewas.That

evening,mysourcecametomeandhesaidDoyouknowhowluckyyouaretobealive?Thatyou

werenttorntopieces?Whyisthat?ThatwasAlQuedathatyouwalkedintothemiddleofnextdoor.

WewerenextdoortoAlQueda.Well,thankyouverymuch.Iwontmakethatmistakeagainbuthe

saidHere,look.Ihavetransferdocumentsstatingthatyourweaponsofmassdestructionthatwere

heretheyweremovedbyMukharbaratandMukharbaratistheIraqiintelligenceservicethat[are]very

feared,verydangerous,veryloyal.IsaidWhatdoesthishavetodowithanything?andhesaidLook

hesaidTheseweaponsofmassdestructionthatyouhadbefore,thatyousentusbeforeyouinvaded

wellseveralofthemweremovedintoSyria.Isaidok.Doyouhavethedocumentstoshowtheywere

movedintoSyriaandheproducedthosetransferdocuments?

AndInoticedthattherewereothershipmentsassignedtothesameloads.HesaidTheyhadmoved,

theyhadorderstomovethegoldfromSamarra,theGoldenCity,thebankingcityofSamarra,into

Syria.ThoseweaponswentintoSyria.IsaidWheredidtheygoinSyria?Veryimportantsowecan

tracktheseweapons.HesaidTheywenttothelargestfacility,storagefacilityinalloftheworld,


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globally.ItsafewmilessouthofDamascus.IsaidWhatisthere?andhesaidAllyourweaponsthat

yousoldusthatwefinancedthroughyourbanks.Wefinancedthepurchaseofthoseweaponsthrough

yourbanksandyousoldusandthoseweaponshavenowbeenmovedtothisDamascusweaponsdepot

whichisabout,hesaidhedescribeditasabouteightmilessouthofDamascus.

Isaid

Ok,

whats

there?

He

said

Every

known

weapon

of

mass

destruction

and

killing

agent

there

is

known,madebymanisthere.Isaidisthereanythingelsethere?andhesaidTheresrumoredtobe

nuclearissuesthere.Likenuclearinstrumentationasindetonators.Hedidntsaybombshesaid

detonators,yeah,detonators.

IsaidGreat.Now,whatdoyouwantmetodowiththisinformation?HesaidReportit.Sendittoyour

people.Makesuretheydonotblowupthatdepot.Itisveryimportanttheydonotuseanykindof

flamearoundthismaterial.

Isentthereportsanddidnthearawordbackfromanybody.Notoneword.Notthroughthechainof

command.Anybody.

ThenextdayIhappentobeworking.Imalsoatrainedphysician.AndInoticedthatinmy,inmypeople

intheintelligencegroupIwaswiththeystartedtogetreallyviolentduringtheirinterrogations.And

whenIsayviolentImeansettingpeopleonfire,andthentalkingtothemaskingthemquestionswhile

theyareonfire,andstranglingandofcourse,everythingelse.

So,IwasspeakingtoapersonandIgotcalledintotheroom,Ihadtoputouttheflamesonthisyoung

boywhowasbeinginterrogatedandtheysaidTakecareofhim.Ok,hehadhadaheartattackandwas

unconsciousandsoIdidtakecareofhim,revivedhim.AndIcamebackoutandtherewasamilitary

policemanandhelookedmerightintheeyeandsaidWhyareyou,whyareyoudoingthis.Whatare

you,

what

are

you,

what

do

you

hope

to

accomplish?

I

said

What

are

you

talking

about?

He

said

Your

headquartersisabsolutelydestroyingthesepeople.AbuGhraib?Yes,hesaidAbuGhraib.These

peoplethataregoingdownthereareabsolutelybeingtakenapartandtorturedandabusedand

anythingelseyouwant.Andsohesaidyoudonthavetodoithere.WewilldoitforyouinAbu

Ghraib.

AndsoIthought,well,IbettertakeourdetaineesdownthereandmakesuretheyatleastgettoAbu

Ghraibandalive.Takemymedicaldocumentationwithme,them.So,IdidandthatswhereIsaw

horrendoustortureandIwasexpectedtotreatthathorrendoustorture. So,Ifiledmyreports,Ifiled

myreportsonthattortureandthatswhereIguesshistorywasmadebecausethatbecamethegreatest

scandalinUnitedStateshistory.

Asaresult,Iwasphysicallygrabbed,alright,bymycommand,Iwasgrabbed,abducted,slammedontoa

stretcherandshotfullofdrugs,immediately,andbecauseIhadfiledchargestostopthistorture,andI

was,Iwasactuallytortured.Idontrememberit.Iwasactuallytortured.WhileIwasonthestretcher

theywantedtoknowwhoIdcontactedaboutthetorturegoingonatAbuGhraib.Andso,Iwokeupon

anAirForceplane.WehadleftIraqandIlookeddownandIcouldseetheRockofGibraltarpassing

beneathourfeet.SoIthought,well,Imluckytobealive.


10/12

AndsoIgotbackandfiledthereportsthatyounowsee,thecourtreportsandsoforth.

Justeightweeksagothough,IreceivedarequestanditwasanoddrequestitsaidWhat,whatisthere

aboutthoseweaponsthatwentintoSyriathatweneedtoknowabout?IsaidItskindoflatenowtobe

askingandtheysaidNo,weneedtoknowbecauseweregoingtodosomethingtothoseweapons.

Weregoing

to

try

to

destroy

them.

Isaidok,alright,whatelseisitwearegoingtodo?

HesaidthatIsraelipilotsarecirclingDamascusrightnowintheirfightersandtheirwaitingtoblowup

anythingthatlookslikeaconvoycarryingweaponsofmassdestruction.

EightweeksagoIsentthereportsayingUndernocircumstancesareyoutousethermobaricweapons

todestroythoseconvoys.Youcanuseconventionalweapons.thermobaricweapons,ifitisVXgas,will

ignitethatgasandyoucouldpossiblywipeoutallofDamascuswithoneortwoweaponsiftheyignite.

Isenttheletter,excuseme,IsentthereportthroughtoWashington.WashingtontoIsraelandI,my

lawyerjustinformedmethathereceivedaresponsebackthreedaysagothatsaidthattheywouldnot

usecruisemissilesasaresultofmyreporttotrytodestroyanyofthoseweaponsdepots.

Ok,great,atleastDamascuswillbesavedatthispointandthenofcourse,thenewshasbrokenand

theyhaveusedsarin.Alright.ThefirstthingIthoughtwasThosepeoplelookedtogoodbecauseifthat

wasVXgas,itwouldhavewipedouteverybody.TheyhadtousesomethingotherlikeTaboon(sp?),

PhosgeneorSarinanditturnsoutitwasSarin.Somebodyhadtohavehadaccesstothatweapons

depotandtakenthatsarinoutofstorageandfiredit.Sarincanbedeliveredonartilleryshellsorthey

canbedeliveredonmissiles.Itturnsout,Ithink,IthinkIwasright.IthinkIdidtherightthing.

(Break)

LewisasksFordQuestions

Lewis:ThesituationinSyria.Whodoyouthinkisresponsibleforthedispersingofthatgasthathaskilled

andharmedthatmanypeople?

Ford:Goodquestion.KnowinghowthosegovernmentsworkandunderstandingthattheBasharAssad

wasthesonofprobablyoneofthemostbrutaldictatorsintheMiddleEast.Ever.Iwouldsaythatthere

wasalreadyenoughhatredfromallthegenocidehehadpracticedontheAlawitestosayok,itwas

probablyhim,butthenagain,theserebelshaveaccesstoallofthismaterialthatcancausethiskindof

damageand

its

easy

to

turn

this

thing

around

to

make

it

look

like

the

government

did

it.

Idont

think

thegovernmentwouldhesitatetouseitbuttheyhavebeenheavyhandedinthepastwiththeCityof

HomsandHamas.TherestwocitiesthatareinthenorthernpartofSyria.Thefatherwasextremely

brutal.Hejustleveledandturnedbothcitiesintoparkinglots.AllIcansayisitlookslikethe

governmentdiditandthatswhattheevidencewouldbe,Iwouldhavetolookatotherthingslike

launchsites,typeofdeliverysystemsthatwereusedandthetime,becausethetimeinfluencesthat

typeofgasthatwasusedontheb/cthegroundpressurethatwasused,thegroundpressureand


11/12

temperatureallthesethingsIwouldsaythatitwasprobablythegovernmentthatactuallylaunchedthis

attack.

Lewis:So,ifyouresayingthatthenPresidentObamaisgoingtomakeadecisionastowhetherornot

hewantstofirerocketsatmilitarytargetsandweknowallofthemilitarytargetsthatwouldbefired

uponwould

be

destroyed

outright.

Would

this

mean

then

that

iftheyre

destroyed

and

that

gas

remains

inthosemilitarytargetsthatliterallytheyredestroyingtheevidence,correct?

Ford:TheyareprobablydestroyingtheevidencethattheywereAmericanmadegascanisters.Yes,they

woulddestroythose.ButmybiggestconcernisiftheresclosetoamillionpeoplewholiveinDamascus

andtheDamascusareaandifanyofthosecanisterswereignitedveryeasily,especiallyaVX/GFcanister

youcouldeasilykilleveryoneinDamascus.

Lewis:WhatwouldbetheresponsefromRussiaandothergroupsifthiswastohappen?Thisisthing

thatworriesmethemostandmostofmylistenersiswhileObamaandwarhawksalltoiloverwhether

ornottheyshoulddoitwhenmanyoftheAmericanpeopleknowwhattheresponseisgoingtobe;I

heardthe

term

used

Bamano

effect,

after

these

rockets

are

launched

well

be

seeing

bombs

on

our

doorstep.Whatistheprobabilityofthis?

Ford:Well,ifourmilitaryhasbehavedliketheyhaveinthepasttowardstheseissuesandthereare

certainlylevelsofscandalthatwouldhavetobecoveredupandpoliticalembarrassmentthathastobe

coveredup,Iwouldstronglysuspectthatmaybeinoneoftheperipheralcountriestheresalready

severalteamssetuptogoinandlocatetheseweaponsandeitherdestroythemorremovethem.

Alright.Andtheyprobablyhavethebackupandsupport.Youhavetohavelogisticsforthese

operations.Youhavetohaveairplanes.Youhavetohavetransportation.Youhavetohavethetrained

personnel.Youhavetohaveequipment,liftingequipment;noneofthisstuffislight.Onemancantlift

anyof

this.

So,

you

have

to

have

all

of

this

ready

to

go

and

Istrongly

suspect

that

in

one

of

the

periphery

countries,thatisfairlyfriendlytous,thatthereisalreadyseveralteamswaitingtogoinwhenthey

wontgetshotatbysnipersandtheywontrunintoangrypeoplethatareheavilyarmed.Isuspectthat

thatistheissue.Theywillgoin.Ithinkitwouldbesuicideifwelaunchedanykindofmissilesystemat

anyoftheseweapons.

Lewis:ObamaisclaimingnobootwilltouchthegroundinSyriaandJohnKerryhadsaidtherewouldbe

bootstouchingtheground.Thenhebacktrackedonthatissue.Nowitseemslikeitisgoingtobeapush

buttonwarandafiringoncertaintargetsandthenhopingnoonefiresbackorhopingthatRussia

doesntblinkorIrandoesntgetpulledintothis.So,thatsmybigconcernrightnow.

Ford:Yes,youreabsolutelycorrect.Thoseareconcerns.Butthisissue,becausewevealreadystated

thatthereisanultimatuminvolvedhere.Wehaveapresidentthathassaidandhispositionisthatwe

willnotletthisgoandiftheyhavetousechemicalweapons,yes,wewillreact.Sowehavetodo

somethingbutweneedtomakesurewedotherightthing.Obviously,Iraqwasnottherightthing.

Obviously,Iraqwasdisastrousandsowedonotneedtodothatagain.Butwe,butwedoneedtomake

surethat,thataccordingtotheGenevaConventionsandalloftheotherissuesofhumanjusticeand

preservationthat,thatwedoeverythingwecantomakesurethisdoesnotgetrepeated.Theirneighbor


12/12

wastheonly,sinceWWII,wastheonlycountrytoeverusegasandthatwasIraq.Thefalloutnowfrom

IraqandwhattheydidtoIraniscomingtothefore

(Endtime1:39)

Startingat1:42:20 to2:17:06 GregFordtakesquestionsfromlistenersofGroundZeroRadio.TheT

Roomdidnottranscribethisportionoftheshowduetotime.Fordcontinuedtosharehiscurrent

understandingsofeventsinSyria,moreinsightintotheCarlyleGroupandhowtheweaponsofmass

destructionmadetheirwayintoIraq.

Edit:September6,2013:ThermalBerrickwasreplacedwiththermobaric;PapastoPappas.###

WHENSOURCINGTHISMATERIALFORYOUROWNWORKPLEASEGIVEAPPROPRIATECREDITTOTHET

ROOMTRoom.us THANKYOU.

in his own words: former us army military intelligence officer now whistleblower frank ‘gregory’...

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