how do we help pathologists find pathology? · • communications with the cutters and pathologists...
TRANSCRIPT
![Page 1: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/1.jpg)
How do we help pathologists find pathology?
Dan C. Martin, MDProfessor, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology
Divisional Director of Minimally Invasive SurgeryDivisional Director Reproductive EndocrinologyDirector Minimally Invasive Surgery Fellowship
Faculty Senator, University of Tennessee Health Science CenterMemphis, Tennessee.
![Page 2: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/2.jpg)
March 27-29, 2014Atlanta, Georgia
![Page 3: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/3.jpg)
Learning Objectives
At the end of this presentation, participants should be able to:• Be aware of STARD criteria• Understand the use of select STARD
criteria in clinical care• Clarify a signal-noise ratio• Review available staining techniques.• Communicate better with pathologists
![Page 4: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/4.jpg)
Conflict of Interest• None
![Page 5: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/5.jpg)
Confirmation at a Research Level
STARD
Standards for Reporting of Diagnostic Accuracy
Bossuyt PM, Reitsma JB, Bruns DE, et al.Towards Complete and Accurate Reporting of Studies of Diagnostic Accuracy: The STARD InitiativeClinical Chemistry 49:1, 1–6 (2003)
![Page 6: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/6.jpg)
Confirmation at a Research Level• The protocol needs to be a fixed in order to be compatible with STARD.
The protocol in yellow below may not be compatible with STARD• Surgeon Experience Clarified• No Expectation of Appearance vs. Specified Appearances
“Absence of Normal Appearance” vs. “Appearance of Endometriosis”• Biopsy Techniques (biopsy forceps, nmicro-scissors, trim large specimens,
micro-point monopolar electrosurgery knife, 5000+ w/cm2 CO2 LASER)• Additional punctures and equipment for additional control• Adequate Number of Biopsies • Signal to Noise Ratio (trim specimens)• Tagging the Specimen Location• Marking the Specimen Side• Notations on Pathology Request (i.e. 1 mm lesion, 19+ from 1986, other?)• Uniform Specimen Size in Container• Cell Block• Transferring the Specimen to Container and then to Cassette• Processing by the Surgeon• Communications with the Cutters• Communications with the Pathologist• Re-cutting Specimens• Histologic Criteria (Batt 1989)• Infectious disease cultures, NNA, DDA, titers, etc. in pain studies• Routine or selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)• Routine or selective use of trichrome staining for collagen and muscle• Require a Histology Description Compatible with Surgical Findings.
A 1 mm lesion requires histology compatible with a 1 mm lesion.• Reviewing Slides.
![Page 7: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/7.jpg)
Confirmation at a Combined Research / Clinical Level
• No Expectation of Appearance or that any appearance is endometriosis• Biopsy Techniques (biopsy forceps, scissors, knife)• Adequate Number of Biopsies • Signal to Noise Ratio (trim specimens)• Tagging the Specimen Location• Notations on Pathology Request (i.e. 1 mm lesion, 19+ from 1986,
other?)• Uniform Specimen Size in Container• Cell Block• Transferring the Specimen to Container and then to Cassette• Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists• Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid
pigment)• Selective use of trichrome staining for collagen and muscle• Reviewing Slides.• Require a Histology Description Compatible with Surgical Findings.
A 1 mm lesion requires histology compatible with a 1 mm lesion.
![Page 8: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/8.jpg)
Confirmation at a Clinical Level
• No expectation that any appearance is endometriosis
• Tag small lesions on large specimens
• Signal to noise ratio
• Notations on pathology request (i.e. 1 mm lesion)
• Selective use of iron stains for iron forms
• A 1 mm lesion requires histology compatible with a 1 mm lesion.
![Page 9: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/9.jpg)
What do we know?
![Page 10: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/10.jpg)
Non-Specific Lesions
These are non-specific lesions unless pathology is specific.
![Page 11: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/11.jpg)
Non-Specific LesionsSmall clear and small white lesions- Endometriosis- Endosalpingiosis- Psammoma Bodies- Lymphoid Aggregates- Non-specific Inclusions - Mesothelial Proliferation
If on a Fallopian tube, add- Walthard Rest
With clusters, add- Low Malignant Potential Tumor
If there are solid nodules, add- Metastatic Cancer
![Page 12: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/12.jpg)
Grades of Certainty• Grade 1: Possible residua of resorbed endometriosis,
i.e., hemosiderin, calcium, nerve, blood vessels and smooth muscle.
• Grade 2: Consistent with endometriosis, i.e., hemosiderin, characteristic glands, OR stroma.
• Grade 3: Definite endometriosis, i.e., characteristic glands AND stroma with hemosiderin.
• Grade 4: Grade III with structures conveying and organoid pattern, i.e., glandular-stromal layer overlying well developed smooth muscle layer
Batt RE et.al. A case-series -- peritoneal pockets and endometriosis: rudimentary duplications of the Müllerian system. Adolesc Pediatr Gynecol. 1989: 2:47-56
![Page 13: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/13.jpg)
What is Classical?
• Obliterated Pouch of Douglas• Powder Burn • Clear, Red, and/or White?
![Page 14: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/14.jpg)
Classical 1860 – 1920Batt Grades 3 and 4
Futh 1903 Lockyer 1918
![Page 15: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/15.jpg)
Classical 1960 - 2000Batt Grade 2, 3, or 4
![Page 16: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/16.jpg)
Iron Stain
Iron staining of the peritoneum may aid in clarifying the brown appearance of the peritoneum.
![Page 17: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/17.jpg)
Classical 2005Batt Grade 1 Endometriosis, Precursor or Facilitator
Batt Grade 1: possible residua of resorbed endometriosis, i.e., hemosiderin, calcium, nerve, blood vessels, and smooth muscle.
Batt, et al. 1989; Marsh and Laufer 2005: Cabana et al. 2010
=====================
Inflammatory InductionFacilitator for Retrograde FlowCoincidenceAnother “Watch this space” story
LeftOvary Uterosacral
Ligament
Broad Ligament
![Page 18: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/18.jpg)
Look-a-Like Lesions
Uterus
![Page 19: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/19.jpg)
Signal – Noise Ratio
Tag large lesions.
![Page 20: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/20.jpg)
Signal – Noise Ratio
2.5 cm
Uterus
Ovary3 mm 2 mm 1 mm 0.5 mm
Utero-sacral ligament
![Page 21: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/21.jpg)
Signal – Noise Ratio
1 mm
10 mm
![Page 22: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/22.jpg)
Signal – Noise Ratio
• 1 cm specimen with 1 mm lesion– Linear is 1 mm signal with 9 mm noise (1:9)– Volumetric is 1 mm2 in 78.5 mm2 (πr2) (1:77.5)
• 2 mm specimen with 1 mm lesion– Linear is 1 mm signal with 1 mm noise (1:2)– Volumetric is 1 mm2 in 3.14 mm2 (πr2) (1:2.14)
![Page 23: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/23.jpg)
Signal – Noise Ratio
1 mm
2 mm
![Page 24: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/24.jpg)
Diagnosis and Confirmation
• Diagnosis dark lesions using white light – No confirmationInfertility. Marcoux, 1997
• Diagnosis using white light – No confirmationChronic pelvic pain. Ling, 1999
• Diagnosis using white light vs. 5-ALA induced fluorescenceConfirmation by histologyComparison of illumination. Buchweitz, 2004
• Diagnosis using white light - Confirmation by histologyChronic pelvic pain. Jenkins, 2008
• Diagnosed at laparoscopy - No confirmationGene polymorphisms . Sundqvist, 2010
• Endometriosis was self-reported - No confirmationGene polymorphisms . Near, 2010
![Page 25: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/25.jpg)
Positivity – Single Study
Cases100 500
100
90
80
70
60
50
40
30
20
10
200 300 400
Perc
ent P
ositi
ve
●●
●●
● Pardanini 1998
Walters 2001
Mettler 2003
Pardanini 1998
Pardanini 1998
![Page 26: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/26.jpg)
Confirmation at a Research Level99% in last 69 of 495 cases over 60 months (8.2 per month by one physician)Year 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986.1 1986.2Cumulative Number 97 188 279 376 426 495
of Patients by One GynPositive for Endo 62% 50% 91% 93% 96% 99%
when ExcisedMartin 1987, Stripling 1988, Martin 1990
42% to 76% range by 3 physicians doing 11 to 22 cases.Pardanani, Barbieri 1998 (Harvard, Boston)
45% PPV in 44 cases over 20 months (2.2 per month by ?? physicians)Walter, Magrina, et al. 2001 (Mayo Clinic, Phoenix, Arizona)
61% of lesions in first 46 cases over 34 months (1.4 per month by ?? physicians)68% of lesions in next 56 cases over 36 months (1.6 per month by ?? physicians)Stratton 2003, Stegmann 2005 (NIH Bethesda clinical group)
87% in research conditions, 56% in clinical use. Buchweitz 2003, Luebeck, Germany
88% in 72 clinical cases over 7 months (10.3 cases per month by one physician)Webb, Martin et al. in preparation
![Page 27: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/27.jpg)
Positivity – Time Intervals
Cumulative Cases
100 500
100
90
80
70
60
50
40
30
20
10
200 300 400
Perc
ent P
ositi
ve
●
●●
●
●
Martin 1987, Stripling 1988, Martin 1989, Martin 1990
Stratton 2002, Stegmann 2008●●
●
Dulumba 2012
●
![Page 28: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/28.jpg)
Positivity – Research v Clinical100
90
80
70
60
50
40
30
20
10
Perc
ent
Posi
tive
●
●
●
●
ClinicalResearch
Stripling 1988, Martin 1990
Webb, Martin 2005
Buchweitz 2003
Buchweitz, 2003
![Page 29: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/29.jpg)
Psammoma Bodies, Ovary, Endosalpingiosis,LMPT and Metastatic Cancer
Psammoma Bodies
EndosalpingiosisRemnant Ovary
Uterus
Metastatic Breast Cancer
Bladder
Low Malignant Potential Tumor
![Page 30: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/30.jpg)
Conclusions
• Biopsy can be useful.• Cancer can be missed.• Therapeutic research needs
histology as a criteria.
![Page 31: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/31.jpg)
![Page 32: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/32.jpg)
![Page 33: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/33.jpg)
SLIDES FOR Q&A
![Page 34: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/34.jpg)
Marsh 2005
![Page 35: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/35.jpg)
Endometriosis After Inflammation
![Page 36: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/36.jpg)
Endometriosis After Inflammation
• Induction• Damage predisposing
to implantation• Coincidence
![Page 37: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/37.jpg)
Marsh 760
![Page 38: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/38.jpg)
Diagnosis of PathologyEndo X Melbourne 2008
“We are still looking for peer reviewed, published articles abstracted in PubMed that show a statistically significant difference in outcomes (pain, tenderness, fertility, change in appearance or other outcomes) of surgery or medical therapy based on histology that is positive (glands and stroma) as compared with histology that is negative for endometriosis. There is a $100 reward to a researcher who first gives or sends those type articles to me.”
![Page 39: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/39.jpg)
$200
Until the end of the 10:50 break tomorrow, this is $200 for you.
You can phone as many friends as needed.
After the 10:50 break, the $100 offer is still available for anyone.
![Page 40: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/40.jpg)
$200
$200 a for peer reviewed, published articles abstracted in PubMed that shows a statistically significant difference in outcomes (pain, tenderness, fertility, change in appearance or other outcomes) of surgery or medical therapy based on histology that is positive (glands and stroma) as compared with histology that is negative for endometriosis.
$100 to the first to give me this after 10:50 tomorrow if I do not get it before then.
![Page 41: How do we help pathologists find pathology? · • Communications with the Cutters and Pathologists • Selective use of iron stains (hemosiderin, other iron forms and steroid pigment)](https://reader033.vdocuments.site/reader033/viewer/2022053004/5f087f1a7e708231d4224cba/html5/thumbnails/41.jpg)
Todd Jenkins 2008
BCPs in 93 and Lupron in 17 of 104(?) patients• Chronic pelvic pain• 88 (84%) of 104 patients had endometriosis• Endometriosis diagnosed laparoscopically in:
– 87% (41 of 47) with pain relief on BCPs or GnRH– 81% (46 of 57) with no pain relief on BCPs or GnRH
• Endometriosis diagnosed histologically – 67% (31 of 46) with pain relief on BCPs or GnRH– 68% (39 of 57) with no pain relief on BCPs or GnRH
Jenkins TR, Liu CY, White J. Does Response to Hormonal Therapy Predict Presence or Absence of Endometriosis? Journal of Minimally Invasive Gynecology (2008) 15, 82–86