full text of rahul gandhi's interview _ elections, news - india today

8/13/2019 Full Text of Rahul Gandhi's Interview _ Elections, News - India Today

1/28

2/16/2014 Full text of Rahul Gandhi's interview : Elections, News - India Today

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/full-text-of-rahul-gandhis-interview-narendra-modi-1984-riots/1/340191.html 1/28

THE INDIA TODAY GROUP India Today Aaj Tak Headlines Today Business Today Men's Health Wonder Woman Cosmopolitan Oye! 104.8FM Travel Plus

In A ssociation with

India-born millionaire's

arrest shakes up UK

politics

Elections

Congress leader Rahul Gandhi

Full text of Rahul Gandhi's interviewIndia Today Online New Delhi, January 27, 2014 | UPDATED 18:27 IST

For the firsttime, Congress vice

president and poll campaign chief

Rahul Gandhi opens up to an

elaborate sit down interview with a

TVchannel. For thefirst time after

his political debutin 2004, Rahul

Gandhi takes direct questions on

wide range of subjects. In the

biggestpolitical interview, Rahul

was asked all the questions that

India wanted answers from the

Gandhi scion. Is he scared of a political face off against Modi? What is his view of

the 1984 Sikh riots? Was he a reluctant politician? And what are his views on

multiple scams that UPA 2 was affected by.

The following are the transcripts of the 1 hour 20 minute long interview with

Rahul Gandhi:

Part 1:

Headline points:

On being asked on why this interview has taken so long, Rahul denies any

reluctance to communicate.

Rahul on not being PM candidate: Announcing a PM without MPs' consent not

written in the Constitution.

On avoiding being named PM, Rahul criticises those who do, says "Democracy isnot about destroying processes."

Rahul indirectly takes on BJP for naming PM candidate. Says "Democracy is about

non-arbitrary decisions, it is not about destroying processes"

Rahul on whether he's scared to take on Modi: First understand me, and then

you'll get an answer about what I'm scared of.

Rahul on avoiding faceoff with Modi: I've seen my grandmother and father die,

I'm not scared of anything.

Rahul on whether he fears losing to Modi: I'm not scared of losing, I've lost those

I loved, "absolutely nothing I'm scared of."

Rahul on not fearing loss to Modi: Like Arjun from Mahabharat, I see only one

thing: changing the system.

VIDEOS

MORE

PHOTOS

MORE

HOT RIGHT NOW

TOP NEWS MOST READ EDITOR'S PICKS

MORE

Ashutosh, Vishwas and Patkar in AAP'sfirst list for Lok Sabha polls

Man who hurled shoe at Chidambaramis AAP candidate

AAP's govt 'doled out' R323 cr to

Reliance: Delhi BJP

Telangana issue perfect example ofCong sowing 'seeds of poison': Modi

Shoe hurled at Haryana CM Hooda, fallsshort of target

Congress did not

oppose Jan Lokpal

Bill: Arvinder Singh

Lovely

AAP leaders re act

to candidature for

Lok Sabha

elections

President Pranab

Mukherjee visits

Mughal Gardens

IPL 7: How the 8

franchises stack up

after auctions
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/arvinder-singh-seedhi-baat-jan-lokpal-bill-congress-delhi-assembly/1/343850.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/120/1/top-stories.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/shoe-hurled-at-haryana-cm-hooda-falls-short-of-target/1/343838.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/narendra-modi-himachal-pradesh-rally-telangana-congress-seeds-of-poison/1/343835.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/aaps-govt-doled-out-rs-323-cr-to-reliance-delhi-bjp/1/343849.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jarnail-singh-man-who-hurled-shoe-at-chidambaram-is-aap-candidate/1/343855.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/2014-lok-sabha-polls-aam-aadmi-party-releases-first-list-of-20-candidates-vishwas-rahul/1/343816.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-born-millionaires-arrest-shakes-up-uk-politics/1/343772.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/http://indiatoday.intoday.in/gallery/ipl-7-how-the-8-franchises-stack-up-after-2014-auctions-indian-premier-league/1/11200.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/gallery/president-pranab-mukherjee-mughal-gardens-rashtrapati-bhavan/1/11216.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/aam-aadmi-party-ashutosh-anjali-damania-lok-sabha-elections/1/343847.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/arvinder-singh-seedhi-baat-jan-lokpal-bill-congress-delhi-assembly/1/343850.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/shoe-hurled-at-haryana-cm-hooda-falls-short-of-target/1/343838.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/narendra-modi-himachal-pradesh-rally-telangana-congress-seeds-of-poison/1/343835.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/aaps-govt-doled-out-rs-323-cr-to-reliance-delhi-bjp/1/343849.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jarnail-singh-man-who-hurled-shoe-at-chidambaram-is-aap-candidate/1/343855.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/2014-lok-sabha-polls-aam-aadmi-party-releases-first-list-of-20-candidates-vishwas-rahul/1/343816.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/120/1/top-stories.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/213/1/home-right.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/gallerieshttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/videoshttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/264/1/elections.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-born-millionaires-arrest-shakes-up-uk-politics/1/343772.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/http://travelplus.wayn.com/profiles/travelplushttp://oyefm.in/http://www.cosmopolitan.in/http://www.wonderwoman.in/http://www.menshealthindia.in/http://www.businesstoday.in/http://www.headlinestoday.in/http://www.aajtak.in/http://www.indiatoday.in/http://indiatodaygroup.com/


2/28



Rahul on being asked about Modi, says he's "blind to everything else" except

changing the system.

Part 1:

Q: Rahul, Thank you very much. It's great to have you on Frankly Speaking show

today. It's been 10 years as an MP for you, you fought your first election in 2004 &

this is your first TV interview.

A: It's not my first interview, but it's my first formal interview of this type.

Q: Why has it taken so long?

A: I have done a little media interaction, prior to this. I have done press

conferences & spoken to the media. But mainly bulk of my focus has been on

internal party work and that's where I have been concentrating, that is where most

of my energy was going.

Q: Or is that you have been reluctant to communicate more on one to one basis?

A: Not at all, I have had many many press conferences that you have seen. I don't

have that issue.

Q: It's not that you wanted to avoid touching on difficult or tough issues.

A: I like difficult to tough issues, I like dealing with them.

Q: Now that this is your first detailed & long interview in 10 years, we have a lot of

ground to cover. I have one request to you right at the start of the interview, let's

be as specific as possible on the subjects we deal with today. Do I have your

Agreement on that?

A: Yes, we will be specific but if I would like to sort of explain things in a broader

fashion, I think that will okay with you.

Q: If I want to draw you back into specifics?

A: You can draw me back as much as you want.

Q: Rahul Gandhi the first point is this; you have just avoided this whole question

about whether you are open to PM's post. It seems to me Rahul that you are

avoiding a difficult contest.

A: See, if you look at the speech I gave at AICC a few days back. The issue is

basically how the Prime Minister in this country is chosen. The way the Prime

Minister is chosen in this country is through the MPs. Our system chooses MPs &MPs elect Prime Minister. I said pretty clearly in my speech in AICC, that if the

Congress party so chooses & Congress party wants me to do anything for them, I

am happy to do that. It's respect for the process. In fact announcing your PM prior

to an election, announcing your PM without asking the members of Parliament, is

not actually written in the constitution.

Q: You did that in 2009?

A: No, we didn't.

Q: Of course you did?

A: What we did in 2009 was that we had an incumbent Prime Minister. Prime

Minister won the election, he then went to Parliament. The members of

Parliament decided that, that Prime Minister will continue, and there was actually

a process where he was asked.

Ambani brothers,

Bachchan family

attend Kokilaben's

bday bash

Cinema Superfast

February 16

Highway rolls on

Berlin red carpet in

style!

Have a sweet tooth:

Kareena Kapoor

brings a treat for

all!

US now aware of

Indian cinema, its

reach, says Anil

Kapoor

Mariah Carey

entices husband

home with candy

bra

INDIA WORLD VIDEOS PHOTOS CRICKET MOVIES AUTO SPORTS LIFESTYLE TECH EDUCATION BUSINESS
http://businesstoday.intoday.in/http://indiatoday.intoday.in/education/http://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/229/1/technology.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/103/1/lifestyle.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/84/1/sports.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/230/1/auto.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/67/1/movies.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/214/1/cricket.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/gallerieshttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/videoshttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/113/1/world.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/section/114/1/india.htmlhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/index.jsp?source=hometnhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/mariah-carey-entices-husband-home-with-candy-bra/1/343786.html?source=homernhotnowstoryhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/anil-kapoor-indian-cinema-us-aware-iifa/1/343701.html?source=homernhotnowstoryhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/gallery/kareena-kapoor-sweet-magnum-ice-cream-a-treat-for-all/1/11218.html?source=homernhotnowstoryhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/alia-bhatt-highway-imtiaz-ali-randeep-hooda/1/343715.html?source=homernhotnowstoryhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/gallery/cinema-superfast-february-16/1/11220.html?source=homernhotnowstoryhttp://indiatoday.intoday.in/gallery/mukesh-ambai-anil-ambani-kokilaben-birthday-amitabh-bachchan-family/1/11217.html?source=homernhotnowstory


3/28



Q: But you named your Prime Ministerial candidate?

A: We had an incumbent Prime Minister and there was no question of our

changing him.

Q: See Rahul we can go up and down on this question. The fact of the matter is

this, who else will they choose, and who else will Congress MPs choose if not

Rahul Gandhi?

A: That is up to them right, but what one has to do and this is central to what Ikeep saying is that democracy is about respect of processes. Democracy is about

non-arbitrary decisions. Democracy is about spreading decisions; it is not about

destroying processes. There is a process in the constitution and that process says,

and it is clearly written in the constitution, and it says members of parliament are

to be elected by the population and members of parliament are to elect the Prime

Minister. All I am doing is respecting that process.

Q: Are you avoiding a direct face-off with Narendra Modi? Is there a fear of loss

Rahul because this election is not looking good for the Congress party from

overall estimates? And the growing belief is that if Rahul Gandhi has not picked

up the challenge officially that means that there is a fear of loss, he is avoiding adirect one on one battle with Narendra Modi, you must answer that?

A: To understand that question you have to understand a little bit about who

Rahul Gandhi is and what Rahul Gandhi's circumstances have been and if you

delve into that you will get an answer to the question of what Rahul Gandhi is

scared off and what he is not scared off. The real question is what I am doing

sitting here, you are a journalist, when you were small you must have said to

yourself I want to do something, you decided to become a journalist at some

point, why did you do that?

Q: You are asking me the question.

A: Yes, I am asking you a question, it is a conversation.

Q: Because I like and enjoy being a journalist, it is a professional challenge for me.

My question is you avoiding a direct face-off with Mr. Narendra Modi?

A: I am going to answer the question but I just want to ask you, when you were

young and thought of being a journalist what drove you?

Q: Once I decided to become a journalist, I can't be half a journalist. Once you

have decided to get into politics and you are leading your party effectively, you

can't be leading your party by half, so I'll throw the question, with respect, back toyou, Narendra Modi is challenging you on a daily basis?

A: You are not answering my question, but I will answer the question and that will

give you some insight into how Rahul Gandhi thinks. For that I will have to

expand a little bit about my growing up, how I grew up and the circumstances in

which I grew up. What I saw when I was a child ,was my father, who was a pilot,

and because of circumstances was thrown into the political system and all I saw

when was small after my grandmother died was my father in constant-constant

combat with the system in India and then I saw him die actually. In my life I have

seen my grandmother die, I have seen my father die, I have seen my grandmother

go to jail and I have actually been through a tremendous amount of pain as a childwhen these things happen to you, what I had to scared off I lost, there is

absolutely nothing I am scared off. I have an aim, I have a clear aim in my mind

and the aim is that I do not like what I see in Indian politics, it is something that is

inside my heart. It is like in our mythology when they talk about Arjun, he only


4/28


5/28


6/28



information. Things that used to be closed, things that were in closed doors which

nobody knew about.

Q: I will come to that but you haven't answered my question. Gujarat riots is the

question, your party has consistently wanted to put Mr. Narendra Modi on the

back foot on the Gujarat riots, he says "the court has given me clean chit" and I am

asking you today, is your party's argument about putting him on the back foot on

Gujarat is flawed given the ways the courts have looked at it.

A: The PM has stated his position on the Gujarat riots. The Gujarat riots took

place, people died, Mr. Narendra Modi was in charge of Gujarat at that point. I am

bringing you to a real ideological battle that is taking place here. The real

ideological battle that is taking place here and the one we are going to win and that

has always been one in this country is the battle of empowering people in this

country. Of course there is your point of the Gujarat riots and it is very important

that people who have taken part in this kind of thing are brought to book. But the

real issue at hand here is empowering the women of this country, giving them true

power. We talk about India being a superpower we can only be half a superpower

if our women are not empowered. What I want to do is going forward is basically

focus on three things. Focus on empowering our people, truly empowering ourpeople, giving them democratic rights within the political party. I want youngsters

who come in and really, really push democracy in the party. I want to empower

them and I want to make India, together with everybody, taking everybody

together I want to put India on the manufacturing map, I want to make this the

centre of manufacturing in the world. I want to make this place at least as much as

a manufacturing power as China.

Part 3:

Headline points:

Rahul answers a question on 1984 by praising Sikhs, says he doesn't turn hisanger against a community.

Rahul's response: I do not take my anger on 2 people who did something evil and

overlay it on millions.

For the first time, Rahul Gandhi admits the role of "some Congressmen" involved

in 1984 riots.

After admitting "role of some Congressmen" in 1984, Rahul says they have been

"punished for it."

Rahul draws distinction between Gujarat riots of 2002 and anti Sikh riots of 1984.Rahul accuses Narendra Modi government further on riots, says Modi govt was

involved in the riots.

Congress govt in 1984 tried to stop the riots. Modi government in Gujarat was

abetting the riots.

In a dramatic charge against Modi, Rahul accuses him of "actually abetting and

pushing the riots further."

Accusing Modi of pushing riots further, Rahul says "large number of people" saw

Gujarat government actively involved.

Rahul says he has been told that "the Gujarat administration was actively

attacking minorities."

Rahul gives Congress govt clean chit for 1984, while accusing Modi of pushing


7/28



riots in Gujarat further.

Part 3:

Q: You say that Narendra Modi was CM during the Gujarat riots and the BJP was

in power. The BJP was as much in power in Gujarat during the riots as much as

Akhilesh is in power in UP or for that matter the Congress party was in power

when the 1984 anti-Sikh riots happened, now let me quote, you spoke in one of

your speeches of the anger of your Grandmothers death, I think it was campaign

trail in Rajasthan. You spoke about knowing the people who killed her and you

spoke about anger and managing your own anger and quelling your own anger

and drawing it into strength elsewhere. Now that speech of yours became a

subject of controversy with Narendra Modi posing a series a questions to you on

1984 and he said the following and I want to quote him and your categorical and

specific response "he's crying for the assassination of his Grandmother but has he

shed tears of those killed in the 1984 riots, I want to ask the Shehzada and you

remember Mr. Gandhi he's constantly deriding you by calling you a Shehzada,

whether your party kills Sikhs in anger when your Grandmother died, so following

from this I have 2 questions, my first question; do you acknowledge the role of

congressmen in the 1984 riots, B) will you apologise for the riots as your partydemands an apology from Modi for the Gujarat riots?

A: Two things, in 1977 when my Grandmother lost the election we went and lived

....and the people who came with my Grandmother, those people who stood by my

Grandmother were Sikhs. Pretty much everyone had deserted my Grandmother

but the Sikhs were standing with my Grandmother. I think the Sikhs are probably

one of the industrious people in this country. I admire them; we have a PM who is

a Sikh. I don't have the same world view as my opposition. What those two people

did to my Grandmother, was two individuals, I don't turn around and take my

anger which existed then, frankly, it doesn't exist now and brush it onto an entire

community, that's just not me.

Q: I am sure you don't, my question is do you acknowledge the role of Congress

men in the 1984 riots because

A: I am coming to your question.

Q: I am sure you don't, my question is do you acknowledge the role of Congress

men in the 1984 riots because there must be justice. Mr. Gandhi there has to be

finality, the Gujarat riot cases have moved forward and many people have got

justice, if I just compare that to the 1984 riots, you can look at the status and case

history of what happened to Mr. Sajjan Kumar, Jagdish Tytler, HKL Bhagat,

Dharam Das Shastri and the one story that you hear there is these cases are

endless, they go on for the longest period of time. I am asking you again, Mr.

Gandhi before you seek an apology from Modi would you apologise for the 1984

riots, would that be something that you consider?

A: I do not take my anger which existed on 2 individuals who did something evil

and wrong and overlay it on millions of people. I think that's criminal. Did the

Sikh riots take place in Delhi? Absolutely. Were they completely wrong?

Absolutely.

Q: Were Congressmen involved?

A: Did innocent people die? Absolutely.

Q: Were Congressmen involved?

A: Some Congress men were probably involved.


8/28



Q: Has justice been delivered to them?

A: There is a legal process through which they have gone through.

Q: You admit some Congressmen were probably involved.

A: Some congressmen have been punished for it.

Q: In that case, why don't you apologise for the 1984 riots? The congressmen who

you are talking about are still fighting their cases and in 2009 if I am not mistakenJagdish Tytler, Mr. Rahul Gandhi. Was going to get nominated as a congress

candidate, it was only following the media furore that his nomination was taken

back. Mr. Gandhi I am asking you this question in all seriousness do you feel that

Congressmen were involved and 2) Do you believe if you apologise for the riots

there will be finality?

A: The fact of the matter is that innocent people died in 1984 and innocent people

dying is a horrible thing and should not happen. The difference between Gujarat

and 1984 was that the Government of Gujarat was involved in the riots

Q: How do you say that

A: I mean....

Q: The CM of Gujarat has been given a clean chit by the courts.

A: The difference between the 84 riots and the riots in Gujarat was that in 1984

the Government was trying to stop the riots. I remember, I was a child then, I

remember the Government was doing everything it could to stop the riots. In

Gujarat the opposite was the case. The Government in Gujarat was actually

abetting and pushing the riots further. So there is a huge difference between the

two things, saying that innocent people dying is absolutely wrong.

Q: Explain that. Government of Gujarat was aiding and abetting the riots is what

you just said, explain that?

A: I mean it's not me...it's the large number of people who were there, large

number of people who saw actively the Government of Gujarat being involved in

the riots.

Q: You will keep that line despite the CM getting a clean chit form the courts?

A: I mean, people saw it. I am not the person who saw it, your colleague saw it.

Your colleagues told me.

Q: They saw the riots?

A: The saw the administration actively attacking minorities.

Q: What are you saying? Can you explain?

A: I am saying that there was difference between the 1984 riots and the riots in

Gujarat. The difference was that the Government in 1984 was trying to stop the

riots, trying to stop the killing whereas the Government in Gujarat was allowing

the riots to happen.

Q: If the government in Delhi and in the center was trying to stop the riots in1984, then tell me, how is it possible that Sajjan Kumar was named in Fir's on the

grounds of inciting violence in outer Delhi leading to the murder of Sikhs. The

status of the case is known. How is Jagdish Tytler, accused of inciting the mob in

Pulbangash leading to murder and rioting in the area. How is the late HKL Bhagat


9/28



accused of inciting violence. And you know that a plea in the Delhi Court was

closed after his death. How did these Congress leaders do what they did allegedly,

if the government was so strongly and proactively acting against the riots?

A: There is a process. See there is a legal process. And that process is on. Okay.

Q: There was an SIT finding. It was challenged by Zakia Jafri. It went up there and

the courts upheld what the SIT found. Are you questioning the wisdom of the

courts Mr. Gandhi?

A: Look. All I'm saying, all I'm saying is that there is a difference between the 1984

riots and the Gujarat riots. The simple difference is that in 1984 the government

was not involved in the massacre of people. In Gujarat it was. The question is why

do these kind of things take place. Why is it that the Gujarat riots took place? The

Gujarat riots took place frankly because of the way our system is structured,

because of the fact that people do not have a voice in the system. And what I want

to do. And I have said it and I will say it again. What I want to do is question the

fundamentals over here. What I want to do is ask a couple of questions. I want to

ask why candidates that are chosen in every single party are chosen by a tiny

number of people. I want to ask why women have to be scared to go out on the

street. I want to ask these questions. These are fundamental questions.

Part 4:

Headline points:

Simple difference was that in 1984 the government was not involved in the

massacre. In Gujarat it was.

Rahul accuses Modi government once again of directly aiding and abetting the

communal riots.

Asked if he will apologise for 1984, Rahul says: "I wasn't involved in the riots at

all. It wasn't that I was part of it."

Rahul says that he agrees with bringing political parties under RTI, if there is

unanimity.

Rahul on bringing political parties under the RTI: More openness the better, bring

a law in parliament on it.

Rahul in response to putting Congress under RTI: Press does not have RTI,

judiciary does not have RTI.

Rahul's final position: Happy to have a discussion on bringing political partiesunder the RTI.

Rahul on charge of protecting Chavan: I'm sorry but Congress has taken action on

every issue of corruption.

Rahul on charge of protecting Chavan: I made my position absolutely clear in a

press conference.

Part 4:

Q: I appreciate that you believe in transparency. I'll move away from Gujarat but I

must say that I have not found this comparison between 1984 riots and 2002 riots

that they are two different cases. I can't take this at face value Mr. Gandhi. The

reason for this is because in both cases the government, the accusation is that the

government could have done a little bit more. But at the same time I want you to,

once more if you can substantiate. You stand by what you said, that the Chief

Minister and the government of Gujarat played a role in abetting the riots? You


10/28


http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/full-text-of-rahul-g andhis-interview-narendra-modi-1984-riots/1/340191.html 10/28

stand by what you said?

A: All I'm saying is there is a difference between the 1984 riots and the Gujarat

riots. The difference is that the government of the day in 1984 was not aiding and

abetting the riots. That is all I'm saying.

Q: So you don't need to apologise for the '84 riots. If someone seeks an apology

from you, will you give it? Your Prime Minister has apologised for the riots.

Expressed deep regret. Will you do the same?

A: First of all I wasn't involved in the riots at all. It wasn't that I was part of it.

Q: On behalf of you party.

A: I think that riots, as all riots, were a horrible event. Frankly I was not in

operation in the Congress party.

Q: Mr. Gandhi let's move on to the RTI. Which is the single biggest legislation to

combat corruption. Which you said in your speech at the AICC that was

something that you were speaking about. Now, I find it ironical that a party which

has 90.38% of its funds from cash between 2008 and 2012. 89.11% of its money

comes from unaccounted sources, unnamed sourced. Why would you not say

charity begins at home? And let us put the Congress party and its funds under the

scanner of the RTI. Why would you not bring the same freshness of perspective in

this case as you did when you dealt with the issue of the ordinance?

A: I think that political parties should be under RTI if political parties feel, and it's

a law that has to be passed in parliament. If political parties unanimously feel that

that should be the case then it should be the case.

Q: What was your view? What will be your view on it?

A: My position is that the more openness the better.

Q: So your own personal view is that your political parties should be under RTI?

A: See the issue is this. Laws in this country are passed by parliament. What one

needs to do is pass a law in parliament that brings RTI in the political party. I have

a personal view on it but you have to take that view through parliament. I have a

view also for example on the six bills that are sitting in parliament.

Q: I'll come to that. But my question is on the RTI. I want your view on it. You are

a very influential politician. You have demonstrated some of your actions in the

past that what you say and do can influence the decisions in government and in

parliament. So my question to you is very significant. You said, in the AICC you

said we enacted this revolutionary law to hand you power knowing fully well that

it would place our own government under severe scrutiny. I agree with you. What

about placing your own party under scrutiny? Are you open to that?

A: I am the first person who has been saying over the last five years, talking about

transparency in the party. I have made the Youth Congress and the NSUI fully

elected bodies. I have spoken about the six bills in parliament. I have spoken

about the Lokpal Bill and I have pushed the Lokpal Bill. I was involved in the RTI.

We worked together to bring the RTI. So as far as transparency in the political

party is concerned I am absolutely for transparency. There are questions about

the RTI that need to be discussed and thought through. The real question is that

our system is based on different pillars. And the question is which ones of these

pillars should have RTI. Because, if you only put RTI into one pillar and you don't

have RTI in for example the judiciary and the press and in other areas then you


11/28



might create an imbalance. Am I for opening up? Am I for bringing RTI into as

many places possible? Absolutely. Am I for creating an imbalance and weakening

the legislative structures of this country. No I am not.

Q: How does putting political parties under the purview of the Right to

Information Act, how does that actually weaken the legislative process? It brings

in transparency.

A: It brings in transparency but it changes the balance of power.

Q: How?

A: Because the judiciary does not come under RTI. The press does not have RTI.

Other components of the system do not have RTI.

Q: The press does not rule the country.

A: No it doesn't. Okay. The Judiciary does not have RTI. So you have to have a

complete thinking. So if you want to bring RTI. If you want to deepen RTI, you

have to think about it in a composite manner. You cannot just say, 'Okay let's put

RTI here, put RTI here'. You have to have a strategy to put RTI and open the

system together. And as far as opening the system is concerned.

Q: But you are willing to let a discussion happen on brining political parties under

RTI?

A: Of course I am.

Q: You're not opposed to that.

A: No I am not opposed to any discussion, ever.

Q: On this specific subject.

A: On all subjects. One has to take care that one is not creating imbalances in the

system. And that's something that one has to discuss.

Q: Mr. Gandhi do I sense that you are almost committing yourself and then pulled

back.

A: No, no, no. I have said that I am happy to have a discussion.

Q: You're happy to have a discussion?

A: Of course.

Q: On bringing political parties under RTI?

A: Absolutely.

Q: Mr. Gandhi.

A: But let me just go back and let me give you... Let me go further than that. The

central question in all this is who chooses political candidates and how? The

central issue in all this is what is the power of the Member of Parliament, the

power of the MLA and the power of the Pradhan in political system? If you look at

the legislative power of a Member of Parliament, you look at the legislative power

of an MLA today and you look at the role he plays in Parliament and the role he

plays in the assembly. He doesn't actually make laws. He presses buttons. Go to a

state like Uttar Pradesh and you look at actually the law making, the law making

done by the MLAs, it's extremely limited. You can't talk about bringing people into

politics. You can't talk about opening up the system until you start to empower


12/28



these people.

Q: Was it part of the empowerment of people that Ashok Chavan was protected in

the Adarsh Scam despite the fact that the judicial commission actually said that he

was involved in a quid pro quo? A Chief Minister, an ex Chief Minister forced to go

because of one of the biggest scams. Which was by the way Mr. Rahul Gandhi

played out greatly on the channel. Is he being protected? The CBI is not getting

permission to prosecute him. You can say all this Mr. Rahul Gandhi about the

legislative framework to fight corruption. But my question to you is morefundamental. You have not shown the political will to use your tremendous

influence to ensure that Ashok Chavan faces justice. You said a little bit and you

moved back. Why are you still protecting Ashok Chavan.

A: I'm sorry the Congress party wherever we have had issues of corruption we

have taken action. On every front. We are the ones who brought the RTI which is

the single biggest weapon against corruption. And we got it ourselves. We are the

ones who delivered RTI to this country.

Q: Your Maharashtra cabinet rejected the judicial commission report on Adarsh.

And after that the governor refused to give prosecution to go against Ashok

Chavan. None of this was part of the empowerment of the people. You said you're

not for it. After that in some kind of tardy, if I may say so, partial acceptance of the

report. The bureaucrats are blamed and each and every politician including Mr.

Ashok Chavan gets away. I want to ask you Mr. Rahul Gandhi. You said you will

not compromise. You will not make small compromises. How big a compromise

was it for you to continue to protect Mr. Ashok Chavan. Why are you protecting

Ashok Chavan?

A: I made my position on Ashok Chavan absolutely clear. I made it front of a press

conference. I made it absolutely clear exactly what I thought about that issue. Let

me again go back to the issue at hand. The issue at hand is bringing in youngsters

into the political system. Opening the doors.

Q: The Chief Minister did a sort of partial acceptance which basically means

bureaucrats are faulted in the report. They are penalised. Indicted politicians get

away. Mr. Rahul Gandhi I am asking you this because you've come up on the

issue. Do you have the political conviction to push this through. What will you say

to the people watching this interview today, who will say, 'You know what, you

said it' but you're not taking responsibility. The man still gets away scot-free. Why

should a bureaucrat be punished and a Congress politician be let off?

A: What I will say is that in the Congress party anybody who does any act of

corruption will be taken up and punished.

Q: What about Ashok Chavan?

A: Every single person.

Q: But he has got away.

A: What I will say is that there are six bills in parliament that are sitting there bring

them in. Pass them.

Q: But your words are not matching your actions Mr. Rahul Gandhi. You're saying

it but all the politicians they got away scot-free, including not just Ashok Chavan.There are several NCP ministers. All of whom tried to interfere and meddle in the

process. They used the name of Kargil Mr. Rahul Gandhi to give themselves

private profit. If you say this and you have the conviction why are you not

following it through?


13/28



A: I have made it absolutely crystal clear right in front of the press what I think

about this issue.

Q: But nothing happened.

A: What do you mean nothing happened?

Q: Ashok Chavan faces no action.

A: Absolutely not. What all I'm saying is that anybody, regardless of who he is, ifthere is any corruption by any Congress person we will take action.

Q: Would you like to see Ashok Chavan facing action?

A: We have punished our own minister. We have put the most powerful bills in

the Parliament house. Please get those bills passed. That's what I tell the

opposition in this country.

Part 5: Headline points:

Rahul on Virbhadra corruption charge: There is a legal process, follow it and

conclude it.

Rahul: We took action on corrupt ministers. Lets talk about system being corrupt,

not peripheral things.

Rahul says he knows that there is no case being followed against Virbhadra Singh,

but says "that is not my job."

Rahul defends his silence on scams, says he had many conversations on the

scams with the Prime Minister.

Rahul says he was reporting to the PM. Says he made his views on scams

"abundantly clear to the PM."

Part 5:

Q: I am giving you two examples. One ex Chief Minister and one a current Chief

Minister. Virbhadra Singh. My question to you is we have papers which have

shown that the Chief Minister takes money from a company which his

government does business with. And he takes money. Large amounts of money

are put in. And then he says I just took the money as a personal loan because I

wanted to do renovations in my Palace. My question is Mr. Rahul Gandhi. And

this is really fundamental because you have taken a position on corruption of late.

Do you think it appropriate of another Chief Minister of a state to be deciding on

the fate of a company, that he is revealed to have close links with? And by not

speaking on it, because you've not spoken on it, aren't you missing on yet another

opportunity to address the issue of corruption with Virbhadra Singh?

A: As far as any corruption done, there is a legal process. And that legal process

should be followed and concluded. As far as my personal view is concerned,

anybody who is corrupt should be brought to book.

Q: Was the legal process completed when A Raja was asked to leave the cabinet?

A: We took action against the DMK ministers.

Q: Was the legal process completed when Mr. Kalmadi was asked to leave as

Secretary of the Congress Parliamentary Committee?

A: We took action on the corrupt ministers. We have passed a bill in parliament.

The Lokpal Bill. The most powerful thing. We got you RTI and we got six bills

sitting in Parliament house. We have to change the way the system works. We are


14/28



always talking about peripheral things. We are never talking about the core reason

this system is corrupt. The core reason the season is corrupt is that there is too

much concentration of power in the system and people on the peripheries do not

have power. The people on the streets do not have power. And that the reason that

happens is that our political system, political parties are shut. We need to open the

door of the political parties. We need to move, carry out more legislation like RTI

and we need to change the system.

Q: Are you open to taking action on Ashok Chavan and Virbhadra Singh? Haveyou seen the papers yourself? Will you examine them Mr. Gandhi? Will you

examine it?

A: Anybody who is corrupt should be punished. I am not a judge. So if there is a

legal process and there is a result of the legal process, absolutely they should be

punished.

Q: There is no case being followed against Mr. Virbhadra Singh.

A: Yes I know that but I am saying that it is not my job. My job is when I see issues

of corruption, take action on it. That's what I do.

Q: Well Mr. Gandhi now you see. The other question is, should you have spoken

up much much earlier? You know you didn't. Everyone wants to know today why

you didn't speak up during 2G. Why didn't you speak up during Coalgate? Why

didn't you speak up? I think it was June 2010 that our channel broke the CWG

scam and railgate. You could have spoken up. And you can't take the defence that

you were not very actively there. You have for some time been effectively in-

charge of the 2014 re-election campaign.

A: My position was that I report to the Prime Minister. Whatever I felt I had

conversations with the Prime Minister. Whatever I felt about the issues I made it

abundantly clear to the Prime Minister. I was involved in the legislation, RTIlegislation. And now I have helped pass the Lokpal Bill. I bring you back. The real

issue here is participation of people in politics. It is bringing youngsters into the

political system, it's opening out the political system. That's where nobody wants

to talk. Everybody is perfectly happy with 500 people running the entire system in

India. Nobody, none of you want to raise that issue. The fundamental issue. How

do we chose candidates?

Q: Do you feel that you have undermined by remaining silent? I want to ask you

this when the Pawan Bansal and Ashwini Kumar episode happened for six days

the Govt batted back, everyone said this is unacceptable. Six days the Parliament

was washed out, do you feel in retrospect that you could have spoke out earlier,Mr. Gandhi please be frank with me on this.

A: What I feel is that this country needs to look at the fundamental issues at hand,

the fundamental political issue at hand is that our Political system is controlled by

too few people and we absolutely have to change the way our political system is

structured, we have to change our Political parties, we have to make them more

transparent, we have to change the processes that we use to elect candidates, we

have to empower women in the political parties, that is where the meat of the

issue but I don't hear that discussion, I don't hear the discussion about how are

we actually choosing that candidate, that is never the discussion.

Part 6: Headline points

Rahul: Their clout does not make them oblivious to scrutiny, but we have to open

up the system.

Rahul on tying up with Lalu despite corruption conviction: Alliance with an idea


15/28



not an individual.

Rahul on tying up with Lalu despite corruption conviction: Our alliance with a

party not an individual (Lalu).

Rahul: We are making alliances with parties on their views not with individuals

(in context of corruption charges).

Rahul: Prices are an issue, I made my views clear during the AICC session.

Rahul: Its not that I have just woken up on prices. I have been working with the

PM on prices.

Rahul to Arnab: Prices are a reality. I still have faith in the PM.

Part 6:

Q: So I am asking you how are you choosing Ashok Chavan? That is a discussion I

am willing to have, how are you choosing Virbhadra Singh, they are elected

representatives they hold clout, does their clout make them oblivious to public

accountability and scrutiny?

A: Their clout doesn't make them oblivious, but the point here is the system is the

system behind them that has no processes no systems and we just assume that

thing is going to work. What we have to do is we have to open that up. We have to

bring youngsters into that and that no-one is discussing.

Q: Mr. Gandhi a lot of people felt when you said that I will not make

compromises; you have got a round of applause when you spoke up on the

ordinance. There are many people have faulted you for your technique, they say

you could have chosen a more discreet way. My question is will you make

compromises, are you willing to make compromises for political purposes,

alliances or convenience?

A: My long term view is that we need to take the Indian political system to a

different place. We need to bring in youngsters and we need to move away from

this concentration of power. Unfortunately the political system today is at a

particular place and I can't simply ignore the fact that the political system is at that

place, so certainly there are points at which you might have to take a decision that

you are not a 100% happy with but the long term idea for me is to transform the

system, to bring in youngsters and make sure they are empowered.

Q: Lalu Prasad has been convicted on the 30th of September 2013 for the alleged

fraudulent withdrawal of crores of rupees from the Chaibasa treasury in the 90s,the case you are completely aware of. My question is will you make that

compromise despite that case to enter into a political arrangement, because when

you spoke on the ordinance there was also the backdrop of that case coming up,

will you make that compromise?

A: These decisions of the Congress party are made by senior leaders.

Q: You are the boss.

A: Our alliance in Bihar is with a political party with an idea not an individual, we

are making alliance, and it is not certain that we are going to make an alliance, we

are in process of talking to people and our alliance is with an idea, with a party, not

an individual.

Q: If I were to take that further and challenge you that there is talk of a possible

alliance with the DMK and Lalu Prasad, and if you are accused by your political


16/28



opponents that he talks about not making compromises but he agrees to enter

into convenient alliances with parties for short term gains, how will you justify

yourself?

A: We are fighting an election, we are going to win that election, there are our

alliance partners, there is our alliance partner in Maharashtra, and there is our

alliance partner in Bihar and Jharkhand. We are making an alliance with their

view not with an individual.

Q: Leader of the party is Lalu Prasad, hence you are making an alliance with an

individual?

A: No, we are making an alliance with a political party.

Q: But these are not settled alliances yet but you are open to them?

A: Yes.

Q: Mr. Gandhi the other question is about price rise and you got a round of

applause when you spoke about the LPG cylinders, you told the Prime Minister

quite charmingly - that Mr. PM please make things less difficult for households.

But I am questioning your silence all these years, because in this period from

2004-2013 the wholesale price index of food goes up by 157%, vegetables by 350%

and Onions by 521%, you don't speak on that. When Raj Babbar says you can get

food at 12 rupees a meal, you don't speak then , when Rashid Masood says you

can get food at 5 rupees a meal you don't speak then, the accusation there is and

the general feeling Mr. Rahul Gandhi is that you have really woken up to the issue

after the 4-0 drubbing in the last state election, do you concede that?

A: No, I think women are the backbone of this country and women need to be

empowered and I felt that price rise is an issue cylinders were a big issue, I went to

Kerala and I go a sense that women were concerned about that and I made that

view clear to everybody in the AICC session.

Q: But you didn't intervene earlier?

A: I have been working with the PM on the Price rise issue, I have been in

discussions with him and we have taken steps in our states, where we have called

the Chief Ministers and we have taken steps where we have actually reduced the

prices of vegetables in our states, so it is not that I just woke up, it is that I have

been working on it systematically. But what I really feel that we need to start

looking at empowering women, bringing them in and listening to them.

Q: Did UPA 2 let you down on prices?

A: Prices are a reality.

Q: Did the Govt let you down, when I look back at your comments I find a

comment each time, in 2009, 2010, 2011 you had lot of faith in the PM...

A: I still have faith in the PM he is our leader.

Q: Does the Govt's track record on prices not make your faith in the PM shake a

little?

A: We are working on prices, as I said we have spoken to our Chief Ministers andwe have reduced prices in states where we are in power.

Q: So you have not woken up to it only because of political purposes?

A: No.


17/28



Part 7: Headline points

Rahul's first response on AAP: There are things about how they have reached out

to people, don't take that away from them.

Rahul: The Congress felt we should give the AAP a chance to prove themselves

and so wanted to assist them.

Rahul flatly denies propping the AAP to limit the BJP. Says "Congress cant do that

even if they wanted to."

Rahul Gandhi says that he will win the 2014 General Election. Says he is

"reasonably confident about it."

In a dramatic statement, Rahul says he will take full responsibility if the Congress

party does not win the 2014 election.

Responsibility is mine as Congress VP is the Congress loses this election, says

Rahul.

Rahul says that if AAP goes against Sheila Dixit in the CWG scam, Congress will

not take back support.

Rahul to critics doubting him: When we win, they say Im not involved, When we

lose, I am the cause of it.

Rahul: Its ridiculous to even ask questions about our motives behind supporting

the AAP.

Rahul: I didn't choose to be born in this family, I didn't sign up and say this is

where Id like to be born.

Rahul: I can either walk away or improve something. I am absolutely against

concept of dynasty.

Rahul admits political dynasties exist in the Congress because the system is

closed.

Rahul on dynasty in politics: You can't say Abracadabra and open the system by

waving a wand.

Rahul defends himself against the charge that having 15 seats opened for direct

candidate selection is too little.

Rahul: If you want me to show you my degree I can show you my degree.

Rahul on Subramanian Swamy's charge: I have given a sworn affidavit saying that

I have these degrees.

Rahul on Swamy: He has been attacking my family for 40 years. Let him take the

legal process and solve it.

Rahul on criticism: I'm being attacked because I am doing things dangerous to the

system.

Rahul on criticism: Attack me all you want. Beat me to death. It won't stop me.

Rahul on criticism: It doesn't matter. Keep throwing stones at us.

Rahul on criticism: I'm not going to fight the superficial battle, Im here to fight a

deep battle.


18/28



Rahul: 'Losing the election is not the end of the world' when questioned on recent

losses.

Rahul criticises AAP, says they don't have 'process or structure which the

Congress has.

Asked whether he's open to a one on one debate with Modi, Rahul says 'real issue

is doing the stuff in the party machine.'

Responding to Modi's '60 months for 60 years' comment, Rahul asks Modi 'not tobrush aside what Cong has done all these years.'

Rahul says he is battle ready and going to win.

Rahul on criticism: If I don't have a thick skin now, it'll get thick.

Rahul: The stuff I want to do is not done in 5 minutes, it is difficult work.

Rahul: I don't go to an election thinking, if we lose it's the end of the world.'

Rahul's response: Unfairness makes my blood boil. That's at the heart of my

politics.

Rahul: The "power is poison" remark shows I don't get driven by the desire for

power.

Rahul: Power per se, the thirst for power, the quest for power is not there in me.

Part 7:

Q: Mr. Gandhi what do you think of the Aam Admi Party and why are your views

constantly shifting on the AAP, on the 8th of December after the loss you quite

candidly spoke about traditional and non-traditional parties - non-traditional

parties being those who have involved a lot of people. Suddenly I find that now

seem to be over critical of the AAP, I presume you were talking of them when you

said that there are people who can give haircuts to the Bald, were you referring to

them when you said parties who over market themselves, which parties were you

talking about?

A: The work that I have done in the Congress party, the work that I have done in

the youth Congress and the work that I am going to do in the future is about

bringing in youngsters into the party, strengthening processes, strengthening

candidate selection process and strengthening policy processes. I made a

comment about the AAP where I said that there is something that we can learn

from them and what I felt that we could learn from them is that they reached out

to people in a particular way that was good, there are things that I don't think we

should take away from them. I think we have fundamental strengths in the

Congress party and it is something that we have been working on for 3-4 years

now and the real power of the Congress party is the depth of the organization and

you can't makes changes by destroying things.

Q: But in a recent interview Mr. Chidambaram said he felt the decision to give

support to the AAP was unnecessary and that the opinion was divided on this

within the Congress. Having seen what you have seen in recent days and the

chaos that followed in Delhi, do you agree with that view? Do you feel in

retrospect that support to the AAP is something you shouldn't have done? Please

be candid and frank with me on this.

A: I think that as far as I am concerned that the AAP won an election in Delhi and

we thought that we would assist them


19/28



Q: They got less seats than the BJP.

A: We thought we would assist them, because our party felt we should give them a

chance to prove themselves and one can see what they are doing and one can see

exactly how much they have proved themselves.

Q: What is your view on Arvind Kejriwal?

A: He is a leader of an opposition party like many others, what we have to do as

the Congress party and again in front of us is an election, what we have to do is 3things. One is we have to transform ourselves, we have bring in youngsters, we

have to give them space. Two is we have to look at manufacturing, we have already

set up the corridors North, South, East & West, how we can take the energy of the

Indian people and build a manufacturing superhouse... That is what I think the

real issues are.

Q: Are you using the AAP to split the Anti Congress vote bank, to keep Mr. Modi

out of power

A: You are implying that we have brought the AAP...

Q: I am not implying, there is a theory that the Congress is propping up the AAP

and keeping them on an extended leash so that they somehow divide anti-

Congress vote bank. Had the AAP not been there the BJP would have done better

and that experiment could be extended?

A: I think you underestimate the power of the Congress party, I don't think the

Congress party could even do that if they wanted to. The Congress party is an

extremely powerful system and all the Congress party needs to do is bring in

younger fresher faces in the election which is what we are going to do and we are

going to win the election.

Q: You will win the election?

A: Yeah, I will win the election

Q: You are confident about that?

A: Reasonably confident

Q: And if you don't win do you take full responsibility for it ?

A: If we don't win, I am the VP of the party of course I will take responsibility for

it..

Q: If the AAP goes against Sheila Dikshit in the CWG scam, will you continue to

support them?

A: I have already said that regardless of who the person is, if there is an issue of

corruption the law should take its own course, that's my position.

Q: Mr. Gandhi I now want to understand a little bit on your personal side, my first

question is that you have faced a lot of criticism, how do you handle criticism?

People say he has his heart in the right place but is he a vote catcher, they pull out

all the recent state elections UP, Delhi, MP, Rajasthan and Chhattisgarh, they say

he has not despite playing an active role achieved considerable electoral success.

They are questioning your vote winning ability, what would you say to them Mr.

Gandhi?

A: I would say when we win an election, when we won Uttarakhand, Himachal

and when we won Karnataka , I am not involved, when we lose an election I am


20/28



the cause of it. But once again I think what the Congress Party need to do is tap its

potential, what the Congress party needs to do is change the way the its

organisation is structured and look at changing the way politics in this country is

structured, that is where I think we should head. Questions about whether we

have supported AAP or not supported AAP, frankly it is a ridiculous notion. It is

ridiculous that we would construct the AAP.

Q: You supported them, you gave them a lease of life so that they divide the Anti

Congress vote

A: That ascribes huge power to the Congress party, I think the Congress party's

strength comes when we open up when we bring in new people, that is historically

been the case and that is what I want to do.

Q: Mr. Gandhi why do you keep invoking your family name. I have seen you refer,

with respect, to your father and your grandmother repeatedly. Now Mr. Gandhi

some would say you should be careful of doing that because when you invoke

your family and its achievement from the Congress, you can be accused of touting

your family background for your own political career and the second is you would

be re-entrenching yourself in the role of being a dynast at a time when being a

dynast is not seen to be a good thing? Do you agree?

A: I don't actually keep invoking my family name, I have mentioned my family

name once or twice and then people report that. The real issue is that I didn't

choose to be born in this family, I didn't sign up and say that I like to be born in

this family it happened, so the choice in front of me is pretty simple I can either

turn around and say okay I will just walk away from this thing and leave it alone or

I can say I can try and improve something. Pretty much every single thing I have

done in my political career has been to bring in youngsters , has been to open up,

has been to democratise. I am absolutely against the concept of Dynasty, anybody

who knows me knows that and understands that. But you are not going to wish

away Dynasty in a closed system, you have to open the system. Dynasty or

children of politicians becoming powerful happens in the BJP, it happens in the

DMK, it happens in the SP, it happens in the Congress party, it happens

everywhere.

Q: Then how are you different?

A: You have to go into why it is happening.

Q: It is happening because dynasties are allowed to proliferate, it is because a

Scindia's son is a minister a Deora's son is a minister a Pilot's son is a minister. A

PM's son is the Congress VP that is dynasty. Change is not happening at the top,you want change at the bottom. There are people out there who are saying that we

want change at the top.

A: The reason children of politicians keep getting repositioned is because the

system is closed. You are not going to change that without opening the system,

you are not going to open the system without having processes, the system is not

going to open by waving a wand and saying Abracadabra let us open the system. It

is going to take time, it is going to take effort and it is going to take structure. That

is the work that I do. That is the work I spent a whole bunch of my time doing that

is the revolutionary work I have done in the IYC and the NSUI that is the work we

are doing when we talk of an open manifesto. That is the work we are doing whenwe talk of 15 parliamentary seats being chosen.

Q: Only 15?

A: Absolutely, because one needs to set up the systems, if I was to suddenly


21/28



launch into 543 seats directly elected by our people the system would explode.

What I need to do is I need to set up an idea, test the idea, run the idea, if it makes

sense, if it works then move it to the rest of the party. The step we have taken with

those 15 primaries, we get that much of a little piece in the newspaper, but that is

probably the biggest political step taken in this country. It is a huge-huge step and

I think those are the types of questions one needs to ask, one doesn't ask them,

one asks questions that don't actually reach to the heart of the issue. You are

talking about India, we have had a 1 hour conversation here, you haven't asked

me 1 question about how we are going to build this country, how we are going totake this country forward, you haven't asked me one question on how we are

going to empower our people, you haven't asked me one question on what we are

going to do for youngsters, you are not interested in that.

Q: That wrong Mr. Gandhi, if I wanted to know that I would hear a Rahul Gandhi

speech, this is not a Rahul Gandhi speech this is a Rahul Gandhi interview. Mr.

Gandhi I see that you have this knack of trying to throw the question back at me, I

can only tell you Mr. Gandhi I am going to ask the questions. My question is how

do you handle this. The other view is that you are a fragile person, you get affected

by criticism. Subramanian Swamy has raised questions on your degrees, he says

why does he claim he has an M.Phil from Cambridge; Cambridge has no record ofhis thesis, you can't get an Phil without a thesis, he says yes he went to Harvard

when Rajiv Gandhi was PM, someone gave 11 million dollars to Harvard medical

school, donors quota, once you enter Harvard said to him we don't think you

belong here, so he dropped out. He has questioned both your degrees, I want you

today...

A: Were you in Cambridge?

Q: I was at Oxford .

A: But you spent some time at Cambridge?

Q: I was a visiting fellow at Cambridge for a while.

A: So where were you at Cambridge?

Q: At Sydney Sussex college.

A: So I was at Trinity in Cambridge, I spent a year there, I did my M.Phil there.

Q: I want your response to Subramanian Swamy, how do you deal with this?

A: You want me to show you my degree, I can show you my degree

Q: Would you like to show him your degree?

A: He has probably seen my degree, I have given a sworn affidavit saying I that I

have got these degrees, If I am lying on these affidavits let him take the legal

process and solve it , what more do you want me to do.

Q: You challenge him.

A: Why should I challenge him?

Q: He's attacked you personally.

A: He's been attacking my family for 40 years. Why should I challenge him?

Q: Does it affect you Mr. Gandhi when you are attacked at a personal level and

how do you choose not to respond? How do you bury your head in the sand and

say this is not happening? It's happening to you. You are being criticized.


22/28



A: I respond by understanding why I'm being attacked. I'm being attacked because

I'm doing things that are dangerous to the system. I'm being attacked because I'm

asking questions that are dangerous to the system. And I'm not asking superficial

questions. I'm not asking questions over here (pointing at the ceiling). I'm asking

questions over there (pointing to the ground). And everybody understands that

this fellow here is not just a superficial chap who talks. This fellow over here is

thinking deeply and is thinking long term. That's why I'm attacked. I understand

that. And frankly, attack me all you want. Beat me to death. It's not going to stop

me. I'm going to keep doing it. And I'm going to ask the questions that arerelevant. And you know what, I have thousand people in the Congress party, two

thousand people in the party who are working on this stuff. They're not letting go.

And I'm proud of them, they're not letting go. It doesn't matter. Keep throwing

stones at us. That's the point. The point is, people who are attacked in this system,

the people who are actually attacked, are the ones fighting the system. You

understand that? They're not the people who sit and ask, the superficial

questions. They're the ones who're actually saying, let's do something about this

system. They're the ones who are going deep into the system and understanding

that this is the crux of it. And the crux of it, I've told you. The crux of it is how we

choose candidates. The crux of it is how we make policies. That's the crux of it.

The thing is, you don't like discussing it. You like discussing stuff that really,

doesn't go to the core and I'm a serious politician. I'm not somebody who's here to

get power, or make money or something. I'm somebody who's here, who's seen

what the system does to people. I've seen, and I can give you example after

example which is on my mind. But I'm not going to fight the superficial battle. I

just am not. It's not interesting to me. I'm going to fight a battle. I'm going to fight

a deep battle. I'm going to take the youngsters of this country and line them up.

And I'm going to then take the system on. Don't forget that.

Q: You don't have a thick skin, Mr. Rahul Gandhi. Politicians need to have a thick

skin.

A: If I don't have a thick skin right now, it'll get thick.

Q: You say you're a very serious politician. I assure you Mr. Gandhi, I'm a very

serious journalist. Therefore when I interview Rahul Gandhi, his first interview in

10 years, it's my responsibility to ask you specific questions. I'm glad you're taking

them. My next question to you, and I have only two left. Mr. Gandhi, how much

have you been affected by defeats and when we see, for example the visuals of

Priyanka holding you after the U.P election loss. That picture, almost in a

protective manner that Priyanka is holding you and you are walking away. You tell

me what's happening in your mind out there. Do you feel overwhelmed by loss, by

defeat, because you've had quite a few off late? How have you dealt with it?

A: It all depends on what you're trying to do. I told you that I'm here because I

want to help use the energy of this country. I want to make this country powerful.

I want to project the ideas of this country. To do that, I think there are basically 3

things one needs to do. One, is changing the way we do politics here. Getting away

from the superficialities, getting away from the small issues and moving deeper

into the issues right. Questioning the system, changing the system. Things like

RTI, things like Lokpal, things like how we choose our candidates. Things like

bringing youngsters into politics. Second is empowering the women of this

country. Really bringing them into the system. Really pushing them forward. And

third is using the energy of the youth of this country. Bringing in the type of jobs

that they need. This stuff is not done in 5 minutes. This stuff is frankly not done

in this type of discussions. This stuff is done through concentrated thinking and

long term work. It's frankly difficult work, it's painful work. If we're thinking

about that and thinking that's what we want to do, defeat just makes you stronger,


23/28



it makes you want to do more. I don't go into an election thinking, if we lose it's

the end of the world. We lose some elections, we win some elections. The real

thing is that it's a heart thing. It's a soul thing. Why are you here? I asked you that

question, why am I sitting here? I'm sitting here because I feel with all my heart

that we need to change the system here and not enough people are actually asking

that question.

Q: Mr. Gandhi, my last question to you in the course of this interaction is this.

Your father was forced into politics by circumstances. In your case as well, whenyou said power is poison and spoke about how your mother Sonia Gandhi came

and she cried. If I put that together with some of what you've said, it might

reinforce the image of a reluctant prince. It's not my phrase, I'm sure you've heard

this phrase used against you or to describe you a number of times. Therefore Mr.

Gandhi, the last question is this. Had you not been a Gandhi, would you have

been in politics at all?

A: If you look at my spirit, regardless of what I do, if I'd been born in India,

regardless of what I do, I don't like unfairness. It just makes my blood boil. I don't

like it. And in whatever I did, if I saw unfairness, I would stand up Against it.

That's the heart of my politics.

Q: If you were not a Gandhi, would you be in politics? Some say this is a

circumstance thrust on you Mr. Gandhi. You've been thrust into this situation.

You're trying to justify to yourself that you need to do it. Heart of heart, are you a

politician? Had you not been a Gandhi, would you be in politics?

A: Maybe you find me strange because...

Q: No, I don't find you strange.

A: You sort of implied that, but maybe I look like an anomaly in the environment

that I'm in. Maybe that's what you're saying and frankly in a lot of ways, I am ananomaly in the environment that I'm in. The power is poison remark, and I tell

this to my sister, I tell it to my mother and my mother tells it to me. I don't get

driven by the desire for power. I'm just not driven by it. For me power is an

instrument that can be used for certain things. But for me, it's not interesting to

own it, to capture it or to hold it. Maybe its because of my family circumstances

and what happened to my family. Power per se, the quest for power, the thirst for

power is not there is me. What is there in me, is a desire, a strong desire to reduce

the pain that people feel. To reduce the pain that people feel as a result of the

system that is predatory. As a result of the system that need not be there. As a

result of system that can change if we just start to ask the deeper question. And we

stop asking the superficial questions. Again, and maybe the seventh time I want to

repeat it to you. What are those deeper questions? The deeper question is, why is

power so concentrated in this country? Why is it that the Chief Minister of a state

has the access to any decision in the entire state? Why is it that candidates are

chosen in closed rooms? Why is it that people do not have access to the

candidates' decision? Why is it that our policies are made behind closed doors by 5

or 6 people? Why is it that the perspective of one minister is completely different

from the one who is following him? What that's telling me is that we're not exactly

taking the voice of the people into policy. We're not actually taking the voice of the

people into the political system. You said about the Aam Aadmi Party and you

said, 'you criticised them and you praised them'. I liked what I saw as far as therepresentation, bringing in people, I thought that was an interesting concept.

We've done that kind of stuff in the Youth Congress. That was interesting to me.

Q: Isn't bringing in people when you disregard the legal process and sit on a

protest outside Rail Bhavan and then you also force your decision and your


24/28



minister is always right. You avoided my question on the Aam Aadmi Party and

I'm glad you've come to it. Tell me Mr. Rahul Gandhi, were you angry with Sushil

Kumar Shinde giving a face-saver to Arvind Kejriwal? It was reported. I didn't

mean to go back to it, you brought it back. The accusation is that you're still doing

deals with the Aam Aadmi Party?

A: What I liked about what I saw in the Aam Aadmi Party was people coming into

their system. I liked that. But what's different between us & them is that we have

structure. We develop processes. That I didn't see much of.

Q: Were you upset with Mr. Sushil Kumar Shinde for giving them a way out

during the recent Dharna? Do you fell they should've been offered a face-saver?

A: You're going back.

Q: Yes, to specifics.

A: It's not specifics. It's frankly superficialities.

Q: How is it superficial?

A: It's completely superficial.

Q: This is the most relevant question.

A: No it's not. Whether Mr. Shinde should've apologised, whether he should've

done this or done that is, it's a fact and it happened. But the real core issues in this

election are, 1)Are we going to head towards a democracy, towards deepening our

democracy and towards opening up the system or are we going to head towards

concentration of power? 2) Are we going to head towards empowerment of

women? Are we going to be a half strong nation? Be a half proud nation? Or are

we going to actually empower women? Those are the questions. And you know, if

you listen to the debate that's going on, about the elections, that's not the debate.There's nothing in the debate about how we're going to move forward on the RTI

paradigm. How we're going to move forward on the corruption paradigm. There's

nothing in the debate about funding of political parties. There's nothing in the

debate about how we're going to choose political candidates. There's nothing in

the debate about how policies must be made. These are the fundamental things.

These are the things that actually make an impact.

Q: You're you're avoiding a debate. Will you have a debate with Narendra Modi if

he agrees to a debate on any of these issues? My question is direct. If Narendra

Modi says I'm willing to debate these issues...

A: I'm debating these issues by building structures in the Congress party that'sgoing to transform it.

Q: Why shouldn't there be a debate between the key political party candidates on

all sides? Let them talk. Let them have a conversation

A: You're more than welcome. You have to start that debate. As far as I'm

concerned, the debate is taking place.

Q: I'm ready to start the debate. Are you ready for it? Then I can go and ask Mr.

Narendra Modi if he's ready for it

A: You start the debate. But the real issue is doing this stuff. The real issue is

doing this stuff in the party machine. The only people who are doing that, is us.

And frankly, we can stick for it. We've just said that 15 constituencies in this

country in the Congress party are going to be chosen by primaries. No one said a

word about it.


25/28



Q: Of course, it's mentioned everywhere. It hasn't impressed too many people.

A: But the discussion hasn't gone there. So all I'm saying is, as youngsters and as

serious politicians, one has to ask the fundamental questions. The fundamental

question this election is, are we going to open up the system? Are we going to

close the system? What is going to be the role of women going forward? How are

we going to get jobs for youngsters in this country? You asked me a whole bunch

of questions. You didn't ask me once on how we're going to get jobs for youngsters

in this country. You didn't ask me once about what we're going to do for thewomen for this country. And I'm going to tell you what I think.

Q: But Mr. Rahul Gandhi, if I was to do that, I would listen to a Rahul Gandhi

speech as I said. This is an interview. I'm getting an opportunity to ask you specific

questions. You called my specific questions superficial. I, with respect disagree. I

feel my questions are specific and you need to answer the specific questions as

specifically as possible.

A: You're more than welcome to ask these questions. But let's also move the

debate to a place where we're actually reaching towards fundamentals. What

should be the role of women in this country? How can we enhance their role?

How do we bring jobs to millions of people. For example, every single person who

comes to me from abroad, Japan, France, Germany, America and tell me 'Listen,

we need an alternative to Chinese manufacture'. We're very happy with what the

Chinese give us, but we need another port. There's global energy saying we want

to move manufacturing to India. The Congress party, the UPA Govt have built the

corridors, we've built the North-South, East-West corridor. We built 3 times the

roads the NDA built. Why are we not having a discussion on those topics?

Q: I asked you that question during the course of the interview. Did UPA Govt let

you down? Because Mr. Rahul Gandhi, when foreign investors want to invest in

India, they want a clean investing environment. They don't want crony capitalism.

They do not need scams. They do not need ministers who behave like Govts exist

on their rent. They do not need the A Rajas and the Aircel Maxis scams. The

climate Mr. Rahul Gandhi has become vitiated with corruption. And therefore, the

answer to that is and I really want you to address this. If you had spoken out

earlier, and lets bring this interview to a finality. If you had spoken out on these

issues earlier, perhaps today we would not be in a situation where India is not the

preferred investment destination. You get my point?

A: Actually, the RTI right, has basically changed the game in India. What it has

done, is that it has basically opened up the structures. And what used to be

hidden, can no longer be hidden. That's the bottom line. The bottom line is large

number of corruption issues that were hidden, that nobody would have found out

about, came out because of the RTI. We did that. Now please go to our Opposition

states, please go to their states and ask them if they have RTI Commissioners. The

issue here is very simple. The issue is do you want an open system? Do you want a

system where these things are out in the open? Or do you want a closed system

where these things are hidden?

Q: I think we should have a debate Mr. Modi

A: The debate is taking place right now

Q: The debate has to take place between individuals. My final question, Mr.Gandhi. Will you be open to a debate between key candidates or representatives of

the major parties? Will you participate in such a debate if there were to be one?

A: There is a national debate taking place right now. The national debate taking


26/28



Tweet 54 3 M AIL PRINT

place right now is the following. There is the Congress Party that believes in

openness, that believes in RTI, that believes in Panchayati Raj, that believes in

giving people power. And there is our Opposition that believes in concentrated

power. That's the debate that's taking place. That's what the election is all about.

We fundamentally believe and the Congress Party has always believed that this

country has to be ruled by its people.

Q: Can you take back this election or have you lost this election before its begun?

Most of the surveys are saying Congress party will be reduced to its lowest evertally. What would you say to that, Mr. Rahul Gandhi?

A: This country has always been run & successfully when large numbers of people

were

full text of rahul gandhi's interview _ elections, news - india today

Documents