episode 255: dr. valter longo on a fasting mimicking diet ... · and this nutrient—you may have...

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Episode255:Dr.ValterLongoonaFastingMimickingDietandIncreasingHealthspan


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Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

ThisepisodeissponsoredbyJustThriveprobiotics.IfoundthiscompanywhensearchingforthemostresearchbackedandeffectiveprobioticavailableandIwasblownawayatthedifferenceintheirproducts!Theyoffertwocornerstoneproductsthatarebothclinicallystudiedandhighlyeffective.Thefirstistheirprobiotic,whichhasbeenclinicallystudiedtohelpwithleakygutandtosurviveupto1,000timesasmuchasotherprobioticsorthebeneficialorganismsinsomethinglikeGreekyogurtforinstance.Thedifferenceis,theirspore-basedstrainsworkcompletelydifferentlythanothertypesofprobiotics.Theirprobioticisvegan,dairyfree,histaminefree,non-GMO,andismadewithoutsoy,dairy,sugar,salt,corn,treenutsorgluten—soit’ssafeforpracticallyeveryone.Ievensprinkleitinmykids'foodorbakeitintoproductssinceitcansurviveatupto400degrees!TheirprobioticcontainsapatentedstraincalledBacillusIndicusHU36®,whichproducesantioxidantsinthedigestivesystemwheretheycanbeeasilyabsorbedbybody.TheirotherproductisaK2-7,andthisnutrient—youmayhaveheardofit—isknownasthe“ActivatorX,”thesuper-nutrientstudiedbyWestonA.Price,adentistknownprimarilyforhistheoriesontherelationshipbetweennutrition,goodhealth,bonedevelopment,andoralhealth.Hefoundthisprevalentinfoodsinthehealthiestcommunitiesintheworld.TheK2fromJustThriveistheonlypharmaceuticalgrade,all-naturalsupplementwithpublishedsafetystudies.Liketheprobiotic,thisisalsogluten,dairy,soy,nutandGMOfree.BotharebesttakenwithfoodsoIkeepbothonthetable.Hereisatiptoo.Mydadhastroublerememberingtotakesupplementssohetapedthemtothepeppershaker,whichheusesdaily,andthey’renowonhisdailylistaswell.Checkthemoutatthriveprobiotic.com/wellnessmamaandusethecodeWELLNESSMAMA15tosave15%!

ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyAlituraNaturalsskincare.Youguyslovedthefounder,Andy,whenhecameonthispodcasttotalkabouthisownskinhealingjourneyafteratragicaccidentthatcausedmassivescarringonhisface.Fromthisexperience,hedevelopedsomeofthemostpotentandeffectivenaturalskincareoptionsfromserumstomasksandalotofproductsinbetweenandtheresultsarevisibleinhisperfectlyclearskinthatisfreeofscars!Ipersonallylovethemaskanduseitacoupletimesaweek,andoftenusethegoldserumatnighttonourishmyskinwhileIsleep.Alloftheirproductshavesupercleaningredientsandtheyreallywork!Andyisabsolutelydedicatedtocreatingthehighestqualityproductspossibleanditshows.Checkthemoutatalituranaturals.com/wellnessmamaandusethediscountcodeWELLNESStoget20%off.

Katie:HelloandwelcometotheWellnessMamaPodcast.I'mKatiefromWellnessmama.comandI'mbeyondexcitedforthisepisode...I’vewantedtointerviewDr.ValterLongoforyearsandinthisepisodewegodeeponfastingandespeciallythefastingmimickingdiet.Dr.LongoistheDirectoroftheLongevityInstituteandprofessorofgerontologyandbiologicalsciencesattheUniversityofSouthernCalifornia.Hehasmadetremendouscontributionsinresearchrelatedtolongevity,aging,fasting,andmetabolicdisease.Dr.LongoistheinventoroftheFastingMimickingDietwhichwasgrantedtheonlypatentsinhealthcareonpromotingLongevityandHealthspanandontreatingDiabetes.Dr.Longo,welcomeandthanksforbeinghere.

Valter:Well,thanksforhavingme.

Katie:Ihavewantedtochatwithyouprobablyforyears.I'vereadyourbookandIthinkalsoseveralofyourresearchpapers,andlovewhatyou'redoingtohelpadvancethefieldoflongevity,andallofyourwork


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relatedtofastingandthefastingmimickingdiet.AndIfindthereseemstobealotofmisinformationouttherewhenitcomestofasting,especiallynowthatithasstartedtoreallygainpopularity.Andyouareindisputablyoneofthetopexpertsintheworldonthistopic.So,tostartoff,canyouwalkusthroughsomeofthehigh-leveleffectsandbenefitsoffastingingeneral?

Valter:Yes.So,Iusuallystartbysayingthatfastingdoesn'tmeananythingandit'skindalikesayingeating,right?Andso,therearemany,manydifferentthingsthatyoucaneat.Andso,weusuallydon'tusethewordeating,iseatinggoodforyouornot.Andso,thesameistrueforfasting.So,whatwe'vebeenfocusingoniswhatwecallperiodicfastingandfastingmimickingdiets.Andtheother,Ithink,verypopularformsoffastingarealternatedayfastinginwhich,essentially,peopledon'teateveryotherday,andthen,somethingcall16/8ortime-restrictedeatingorfeeding,youknow,whichtheperiodinwhichpeopledon'teatisextendedanywherefrom12to16hoursperday.Andthereisalsoanotheronecalled5:2inwhich,usually,peoplewillhavemaybearound500caloriesfortwodaysaweek,500caloriesinsteadofthenormalnumberofcalories.

So,thosearethemajorones.Andnow,therearepositiveandnegativesaboutallofthem.AndIthinkit'sveryimportantthatwemoveawayparticularlywithfastingbecauseit'ssopowerfulandit'sverysimilartomedicine,orcertainlyhasakindofapowerfuleffect.AndsoIthinkweneedtostartdescribingexactlywhatarewetalkingaboutandwhatisitgonnabeusedforornot?

So,youknow,fastingmimickingdiets,wemovedawayfromwater-onlyfastingforanumberofreasons,butmostly,ourcomplianceandsafety.So,toasksomebodytobe,let'ssay,three,four,fivedaysoraweekonawater-onlyfasting,thisshouldonlybedoneinaclinicalsettingwithdoctorsthatarespecialized.Andeventhen,it'snotclearthatthat'sbeneficial.So,wearenowfocusingontheusualofthesefastingmimickingdiets,andtheseareanywherefrom300,400caloriesadayto1,100caloriesadaydependingontheuse.Andtheycanlastfromthreeorfourdaysminimumtoaboutsevendaysisthelongestversionthatwe'llbeusing,forexample,forautoimmunitytrials.

Katie:That'ssofascinatingandI'msureveryappealingtoalotofpeoplelistening,theideaofbeingabletodosomethingthatmimicstheeffectsoffastingwithouthavingtoactuallynotconsumeanyfoodwhatsoever.Canyougoalittledeepertoexplainhowthatworks?Like,howareweabletogetsomeofthosesamebenefitswhilestillconsumingcalories?

Valter:Yes.So,I'vebeenworkingonthisfordecades.AndmymentoratUCLAbackin,over25yearsagowasRoyWalford.AndRoywastheworldleadingexpertonsomethingcalledcaloricrestriction.Andso,caloricrestrictionisjustanextendedrestrictiononcaloriesbyabout30%.Andfromthebeginning,itwasveryclearthatcaloricrestrictionwasverybeneficialbutalsoverydetrimental,soitcausedlotsofbenefitsandlotsofproblems.Sosincethen,I'vebeenthinking,"Howdowegetthebenefitsandpossiblyevenmorethanthebenefitsofcaloricrestrictionwithouttheproblems?

So,thefastingmimickingdiet...thenafterthat,Istartedreallyfocusingonthegenesthatcontrolaginganddiseases,andspent,youknow,agood15yearsjustsearchingandidentifyingsomeofthekeygenesthatwenowknowtobecontrollingthelifespanofmice,butalsocertainly,thehealthspanofpeople.So,we'vebeen


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followingthisgroupinEcuador,forexample,thathaveageneticmutationthatareapparentlyallowingthemtoliverelativelydisease-free.So,thefirstidentification,thegenes,andtheneventually,thefastingmimickingdietwasdevelopedtoregulatethesegenessothatthesegenescanthenregulateaginganddiseases.So,ofcourse,wecannotintervene.Rightnow,therearenodrugsthatareknowntoaffectlifespan.Andso,dietandnutrition,whetherit'stheeverydaynutritionortheperiodicfastingmimickingdiet,isprobablythebestwaytoregulatethesegenes,right?

So,howdoesitwork?Basically,Icallitsomethinglikenutritechnology,whichistheunderstanding.Forexample,weknowtheproteinsandcertainaminoacidswithinthoseproteinsthatthepeopleeateveryday.Theycontrolgrowthhormonelevels.TheycontrolthelevelsofsomethingcalledIGF-1,insulin-likegrowthfactor1.Andthen,downstreamofit,theycontrolsomethingcalledTOR.Andallthosearenowwidelyacceptedtoberegulatingthespeedatwhichpeopleage,andnotjusttheaging,butalsodiseases.Andontheotherside,there'ssugarscontrolapathway,agenecalledPKA.Andso,weuseourunderstandingofthisconnectionbetweennutrientsandgenes,thendevelopthesefastingmimickingdietsowecan,inmanyways,orchestratethechangesinthebodysothatweswitchthebodyintothishighlyprotectedmodenotjustduringthediet,butalsointhemonthsfollowingthediet.So,theideaisinterveningfor,let'ssay,fivedays.Thiswasshowninaclinicaltrialacoupleofyearsago,interveningforfivedays,andthentheseeffectsofthefastingmimickingdietcanlastpotentiallymonths.

Katie:That'samazing.Andyoumentionedautoimmunity.Anddefinitely,there'sasectoroftheaudiencelisteningrightnowthathassomeformofautoimmunedisease.So,basedontheresearchandwhatyou'vefoundovertheyears,whatisthatconnectionorhowcanfastingpotentiallybebeneficialforcertainautoimmuneconditions?

Valter:Yes.So,wenowpublishedseveralpapers.Onewithamousemodelwithmultiplesclerosisandonemousemodelforinflammatoryboweldisease,butbothofthemhadalsohumanclinicaltrialsthatweretestingthefastingmimickingdiet.Butinmice,wewereabletolookatmechanisms,sohowdoesitwork?Andso,itlookslikethe...inthecaseofmultiplesclerosis,thefastingmimickingdietcyclescouldreduceorsometimeseveneliminatethemultiplesclerosiseffects.Andtheydidsoby,inpart,interveningontheinflammationandtheabilityoflymphocytestoattackthenormalcellsofthespinalcord.

Andontheotherside,thecyclesofthefastingmimickingandtherefeeding,werebasicallyactivatingtheseoligodendrocytesprecursorcells,andsoessentiallyregenerating,promotingtheregenerationofthemyelin-producingcellstoreversetheeffectsofmultiplesclerosisinthemouse.Andtheninhumans,inthetrial,weshowedthat,infact,thequalityoflifewasimproved.Thiswasa45-peoplepreliminaryclinicaltrial.Butcertainly,verypromisingtoalreadyseeasinglecycle,bythewayaweek-longsinglecycleofthefastingmimickingdiet,abletoimprovethequalityoflifeofthemultiplesclerosispatients.

Andthen,theotherstudythatwepublishedjustafewweeksagowaswithinflammatoryboweldisease,soCrohn'scolitis.Andtherewesawverysimilareffects.Soononeside,theFMDactsoninflammationandautoimmunity,andontheotherside,actsonthestemcellandrepair.Andtheinterestingthingherewasthatwhenwelookedatwater-onlyfasting,itdidn'tworkverywell.Andsoitlookslike,aswehadalwayssuspected,thatthevegancontentofthedietishelping,iscooperatingwithfastingtopromoteregeneration


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andanti-inflammatoryeffectsinthegut,andinpart,atleastbychangingthemicrobiota,sothemicrobialpopulationinthegut,andchangingitfromapro-inflammatorykindtoanti-inflammatorykind.

So,it'sinterestingnowthatbyconnectingthesetwoworldsthatwealwaysoperatedin,onewasthefasting,butonewasalso,youknow,vegan-pescatariandiets,youknow,theseeverydaydietsthatthepeoplethatareverylong-lived,they'vealwaysconsumed.Wenowrealizehowgoodthatideawasbecauseitseemedliketheprebioticcontentofthesevegetablesisallowingthefasting-refeedingtopromotethegrowthofprotectivebacteriaandremovethebadbacteriafromthegut.

Katie:Thatmakessense.AndIknowI'vereadsomesourceshavepotentialconcernswithwaterfastinghavinganegativeeffectonthegut.So,itmakessensethatthatcouldkindofmitigatetheriskofthat.I'mcurious,whencomparinginaresearchwaterfastingwithafastingmimickingdietand,ofcourse,likeyoumentioned,compliancewouldbemuchbetterinafastingmimickingdiet.Butarethereanybenefitsthatpeoplecangetfromwaterfastingonlythattheywouldnotbeabletogetfromfastingmimickingdiets,ordoyoureallyseeprettycomparableresults?

Valter:Well,notonlycomparable.Weseebetterresults,asIjustmentioned,withthefastingmimickingdiet.So,nowyouhaveanissueofsafetywiththewater-onlyfastingcomplianceandefficacy,right?Soclearly,youknow,weneedtomoveawayfromwater-onlyfasting.Youknow,forexample,water-onlyfastingisassociatedwithincreasedgallstoneformationandthepotentialforneedingthegallbladderremoved.Itcanleadtohypotension,hypoglycemia,etc.,etc.So,yeah,Imean,atthebeginningwe,ofcourse,didlotsofworkwithmiceandwater-onlyfasting.Butthen,werealizedveryquicklyinourcancertrials,butingeneral,thewater-onlyfastingwasnotagoodideaforpatients,andthatweneededtomovetoafastingmimickingdietregimenalsotostandardize,right?Sostandardizethenumberofcaloriesandmakingsurethatwecansay,"We'vetestedthison,youknow,300,400,sometimesevenmorepatients.Andasithappenednowforcancer,thereisgonnabeabout,youknow,300or400patientsnowthathavereceivedthefastingmimickingdietincombinationwithchemotherapyandothertherapies."Andso,thatwillallowustostandardize.

Butalsojusttheregularpeople,thepeoplethatdon'thaveanydiseases,wewannamakesurethatwedon'tendanger.Wedon'tputpeopleinadangeroussituationsothattheycansave,youknow,$300or$400ayear.Ithinkit'smuchbettertodoasmallinvestmentandbesafeandreallygettheeffects.Andeventually,Ihopethesefastingmimickingdietswillbereimbursedbyinsurancesandetc.Sohopefully,people,soonenough,willgetthemforfree.

Katie:Let'stalkaboutthecancersidealittlebitmorebecausethat'scertainlyoneareawhereI'veseenalotofpublishedresearchbothfromyouandfromotherresearchersontheverymuchbenefitsoffastinginsomeform,fastingmimickingdiets,especiallyforcanceroutcomes.Canyouexplainsomeofthereasonswhythere'ssuchacorrelationthere?

Valter:Well,thereasonistwo-fold.Andoneistheprotectionofthenormalcells,youknow.Wedon'trealizethatmanypatientsarenotkilledbythecancer.They'rekilledbythetreatment,andthat'sokay.Meaning,youknow,I'mnottryingtoattackthesystembecausetherearedesperatetimes,desperatemeasures.But


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certainly,youcanseeifweprotectedthenormalcells,thattreatmentcouldbecomemuch,muchmoreeffectivebecausenow,you'dbeabletocontinuethetreatment,etc.,etc.

So,thatwasouroriginalfocus,youknow,maybe12,13yearsago,washowdoweprotectthenormalcellsandnotthecancercells?Somethingwecalldifferentialstresssensitization.Andclearlysucceededinthatinmiceandthen,atseveralclinicaltrialsthatwerepublishedalsojustinthat,infact,thishappensinhumansthatarereceivingchemotherapy.Andthen,thefocusswitchedtowhatwecalldifferentialstresssensitization,meaningthat,okay,thenormalcellsgetprotectedduringthefastingmimickingdietandthecancercellsnot.Butwhataboutthetoxicityofthechemotherapytothecancercells,couldweshowthatit'sevenhigher?So,couldweshowthatthestandardtreatmentismoreeffectiveagainstthecancercellsindependently,orthenormalcells?Andthat'swhatweshowedinmany,manypapers,thatinfact,whenthecancercellisfacedwithchemotherapyorothertreatment,it'salreadyinaverypanic,stressfulsituation.Andso,whenitgetsinthatpanicemergencysituation,itlooksfornutrientswhichallowittoescapethesituation,right?

Forexample,youknow,sugarbeingoneofthemajorone.So,whenthecancercellisfacedwiththetoxins,thechemotherapy,radiotherapy,etc.,itoftenlooksforsugartogenerateallthethingsthatnowneedtogenerateatahigherratetorepairandreplace,etc.,etc.Soiftheirsugarisdown,nowit'sgotaproblem.Now,thefastingmimickingdietisnotjustactingonsugar.It'sactingonsugar,IGF-1,oninsulin,onketonebodies,onleptin,etc.,etc.,etc.So,it'sessentiallygeneratingaveryhostileenvironmentparticularlywhenyou'rereceivingtreatmentandthistreatmentisimposingalreadyadifficultsituation,tobeginwith.Sothisis,ononeside,thechemoorthekinaseinhibitor,orthehormonetherapy,etc.,etc.arecausingproblemsfromthecancer.Andnow,thecancercangointothisemergencymodeandutilizeallthesenutrientstosaveitself.Butifthosearenowaltered,especiallytheyreduceinmostcases,butinsomecaselikeketonebodiesthatcouldbethere,evenifthey'reincreased,now,thecancerhasamuchhigher,muchmoredifficulttimesurviving.

Andthisiswhyweseewithmanycancersifwe...inmiceandnowwealsohavehumandata,ifyouaddthechemotherapyalone,youseeverylittlecancer-freesurvival.Ifyouhadthefastingmimickingdietalone,it'saboutasgoodaschemotherapy,butyouseeverylittlecancer-freesurvival.Andthen,whenyoucombinethechemotherapyandthefastingmimickingdiet,that'swhenyouseelotsofmicebecomingcompletelycancer-free.Andnow,soonenough,we'regonnabepublishingthedatafrombreastcancerpatientssuggestingthatthesameistrueforpatients.

Katie:That'sincredible.Andbasedonyourresearch,we'veseenthatthere'salsoaveryprotectivemechanismwithfastingforthosewhodon'thavecancer,whichhopefully,mostpeoplelisteningdonot.Butwhatdoestheactualdatasayasfaras...ifyoucanimplementafastingmimickingdiet,doesthatactuallypotentiallyreducetheriskofcanceraswell?

Valter:Technically,it'sdifficulttosayitreducesthechancesofcancer.Butcertainly,intheclinicaltrialthatwepublishedafewyearsago,weseethatpatients,let'ssay,werepre-diabetic,hadamajorreductioninfastingglucose.PatientsthathashighlevelsofIGF-1,whichisnowbeingassociated,thisgrowthfactorthatImentionedearlier,isbeingassociatedwithmanydifferenttypeofcancers,theyhaveabigreductioninthisIGF-1.Andinflammation,whichisalsoassociatedwithmanycancer,thatwasreduced,youknow,C-reactiveprotein.So,incentraladiposity,whichisnowconsideredoneofthemajorriskfactor,so,youknow,bellyfat,


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thevisceralfat,oneofthemajorriskfactorforcancer,Ithinksomethingrecentlyputitinnumbertwobehindsmokingasthehighestriskfactorforcancer,sothat'sreduced,right?Sonow,ifyoutakeallthattogether,it'shardtoimaginehowyouwillnotgetprotectionfromcancerbydoingthefastingmimickingdiet,particularlyifyouhaveelevatedlevelsofthesemarkersorriskfactors.

Now,it'snotprovenbecause,youknow,toprovethat,you'llhavetodowhatwe'redoingrightnow,whichiswe'redoingapreventivetrialonBRCA1andBRCA2womenthathavethis.Like,AngelinaJoliehavethishighriskforbreastcancerbecauseofgenetics,andtheydoamastectomy,sowe'refollowingthem.And,youknow,thisisgonnatakeaverylongtimetofigureitout.Butwe'regonnadoitbothinthemousemodelandwe'renowrecruitingpatientsinSouthernItaly.Andso,youknow,theclinicaltrial,basically,isgonnalookatwhatistheincidenceofbreastcancerinthoseunderfastingmimickingdietversusthosethatdon'tdothefastingmimickingdietonceamonth.

Katie:Thatmakessense.Andyeah,that'samazingthatyouguysaredoingthatresearch.Andinyourbook,"TheLongevityDiet,"youtalkedaboutsomethingcalledthefivepillars.AndI'dloveitifyoucouldexplainwhatthoseareandthentalkaboutwhythosearesoimportantforustounderstandwhenwe'reevaluatingresearchandclaimsbecause,asyouknow,I'msureverywellthere'ssomanyclaimsontheinternetpeoplemakerelatedtodifferenthealthoutcomes.So,canyouexplainthefivepillars?

Valter:Yes.So,thefivepillars,Itriedto...sotheepidemiologicalstudies,clinicalstudies,basicresearch,centenarianstudies,andstudiesofcomplexsystems.Andtheideawasthat,youknow,everybodyintheworldisnowwritingbookabout...it'sinterestingbecausethetwofieldsthatIspecializeinissimplyeverybody'sanexpert,sonutritionandaging.Everybodyages.Everybodyeats.Andso,therefore,everybodyhasabookononeofthosetwo.Andthisstartedgeneratingtremendousconfusionbecausepeople,everyotherday,youhear,youknow,coffeeisgoodandcoffeeisbad,andalcoholisgood,andalcoholisbad,andproteinsaregood,andthenbad.

So,theideaofthefivepillarswas,like,whenwegotocourtformajorcrimes,youknow,thecourtsystemhasdeveloped...youknow,somebody'saccusedofmurder.Thereisamulti-pillarsystemthereandit'sbeenaroundforcenturiesbeforeyoucanconvictsomebodyofacrimelikethat.Andso,thefivepillars,itistryingtobringthatkindofrigortomedicineandto,youknow,whetherit'spreventiveortreatment.Andso,ifyousay,forexample,areproteinsgoodorbadforyou,well,let'sstartlookingatit.Whataboutcentenariansaroundtheworld?Dotheycommonlyhaveahigh-proteindietoralow-proteindiet?Andifyoulookatsomeofthelongest-livingpeopleintheworld,theyveryconsistentlyhadalow-proteindiet.Andthevegan,pescatarian,mostlyvegan,somemeat,butnotveryoften.Thenyousay,"Okay,whataboutanimalstudies?Doesahigh-proteindietmakemicelivelonger?Ordoesalow-proteindietmakemicelivelonger?"Well,veryconsistently,thelow-proteindietisbeingshownbymanylaboratoriestomakemicelivelonger.

Thenyoucansay,"Okay,let'sgolookatstudiesofpopulations,youknow,epidemiologicalstudies."So,youknow,whatabouttheHarvardstudiesthatlookedatnursesanddoctors,andtheonesthathavehighproteinsversustheonethathavealow-proteindiet,andotherstudiesbythisdatabase,like,enhancedbytheCDC?Andagain,youseethepeoplethathavealow-proteindietatleastuptoage65,70,theydomuchbetterthanthosethathaveahigh-proteindiet.Andthen,finally,clinicalstudies.Whatifyoutakeagroupandyouput


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themonhighprotein,youtakeagroupandyouputthemonlowprotein,andthenyoufollowthem?Well,youseethat,forexample,theoneonlowprotein,theIGF-1,thepotentialriskfactorforcancerthatImentionedearlier,itgoesmuchlower.Andthere'sallkindsofotherbenefitsthatappear.

So,nowyouhavefourpillarsthataresupportingthisideaofatleastuptoage65,70,havealowproteindiet,butsufficient,right?Youcannotbemalnourished.Youhavetobeloworsufficient.Andyeah,sothat'stheapproach.That'sthemulti-pillarsystemapproach.

Andthefifthpillariscomplexsystem.AndIreallyalwaysliketothinkaboutcarsandplanesinmakingdecisionsabout,youknow,youcannotalwaysuseit,butinmanycases,youcanuseit.Forexample,youknow,ifyou'rethinkingabout,youknow,shallIrun100milesaweekorshallIrun20milesaweek?Well,ifyouthinkaboutacar,ifyoudroveacar,youknow,1,000milesaweek,youprobably...anybodywillmaketheconclusionthat,youknow,after10years,nobodywouldwannabuythatcar,right?So,that'sthefifthpillar.Andnow,inmanycases,itcanbeusedtosortofmakepredictionabouteventually,yes,ifyourun100milesaweek,yourkneesandyourhips,andetc.,etc.,andyourfeetaregonnabedamaged.So,probablynotsuchagoodideaforahealthspantobedoingsomethingexcessively.Solookforsolutions,like,bikingforanhoureveryotherdaymaybeamuchbetterideathan,youknow,thantryingtorun50milesaweek.

Katie:Thatmakessense.It'sagreatanalogy.I'mcuriouswhenitcomestoproteinrequirements,togoalittledeeperonthat.Isthereaclinicaldefinitionoraresearchdefinitionofwhatlow-proteindietwhilestillgettingsufficientproteinlookslike?Andthen,secondly,whathappenstothedataafterage65?Whatchangesatthatpoint?

Valter:Yes.So,thestandardbymostmedicalassociationsaroundtheworldincludingtheWorldHealthOrganizationis0.8grams.So,it'sabout0.35gramsperpoundofbodyweightperday,right?So,ifyouweigh100pounds,mostmedicalassociationwillsayifyoueatabout35gramsofproteinto37gramsofproteinperday,that's...veryfewpeoplearguethatthat'snotsufficient.So,that'saminimum.

Now,aftertheage65,the...probably,whathappensisthatifyouaskan80-year-old,"Howmuchproteinsdidyouhavetoday,"andthe80-year-oldanswers,"Verylow,"let'ssay,youknow,Ijustmentioned0.35gramsperpoundofbodyweightperday,ifthe80-year-oldanswers20grams,theyusuallydon'tdoverywell.Theyhavehighercancerratesandhigheroverallmortality.Now,thesuspicionisthatthey'rejustmalnourished.They'renotonalow-proteindiet.They'rejustnoteatingwell.Theremaybeasituationwherethey'refrail,they'resick,andthey'remalnourished.Butatthesametime,itistruethatalittlebitextraproteinsandextravariationmaybebeneficialtoa70,80,90-yearold.Meaningthat,forexample,IfollowedEmmaMoranoinItalyandshebecametheoldestpersonintheworldandtheoldestwhoeverlivedinItaly.AndCarloBava,IalwaystellthestorythatCarloBava,whensheturnedaround100yearsofage,gaveher100gramsofrawmeatperday,right?

Sonow,100gramsofrawmeatperdayisclearlynotagoodideaforsomebodywho's50,60,oreven70.Butsomebodyjustturned100,Ithinkhegotitright.Andsheneededthatsortofadditionalrawnourishmentthatwasbeneficial.IthinkCarloknewthatshewasalittlebitanemic.Andso,that'showheintervened.Now,I'm


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not...youknow,thatwashisopinion.I'mnottryingtotellpeopleto,whentheyturn100,tostarteatingrawmeat.Butit'sjustprobablynotabadidea,right?

Sothen,theideaiswhenyouturn65,70,maybestartingtoaddsomemoreeggstoyourdiet,more,let'ssay,goatyogurtorsomegoatcheeses,someoftheseingredientsthataremuchhighernourishment,andtheyarealsocommonlyassociatedwiththelongevitypopulation,right?So,goatmilk,andcheese,andyogurt,youseeitinvariouspopulationlikeSardinia,Greece,etc.,wherethereistendencytoliveverylong.So,they'reprobablynotbadforyou.Otherwise,wewillnothaveseenthisrecordoflongevitystoriesintheseareasoftheworld.

Katie:Gotit.

ThisepisodeissponsoredbyJustThriveprobiotics.IfoundthiscompanywhensearchingforthemostresearchbackedandeffectiveprobioticavailableandIwasblownawayatthedifferenceintheirproducts!Theyoffertwocornerstoneproductsthatarebothclinicallystudiedandhighlyeffective.Thefirstistheirprobiotic,whichhasbeenclinicallystudiedtohelpwithleakygutandtosurviveupto1,000timesasmuchasotherprobioticsorthebeneficialorganismsinsomethinglikeGreekyogurtforinstance.Thedifferenceis,theirspore-basedstrainsworkcompletelydifferentlythanothertypesofprobiotics.Theirprobioticisvegan,dairyfree,histaminefree,non-GMO,andismadewithoutsoy,dairy,sugar,salt,corn,treenutsorgluten—soit’ssafeforpracticallyeveryone.Ievensprinkleitinmykids'foodorbakeitintoproductssinceitcansurviveatupto400degrees!TheirprobioticcontainsapatentedstraincalledBacillusIndicusHU36®,whichproducesantioxidantsinthedigestivesystemwheretheycanbeeasilyabsorbedbybody.TheirotherproductisaK2-7,andthisnutrient—youmayhaveheardofit—isknownasthe“ActivatorX,”thesuper-nutrientstudiedbyWestonA.Price,adentistknownprimarilyforhistheoriesontherelationshipbetweennutrition,goodhealth,bonedevelopment,andoralhealth.Hefoundthisprevalentinfoodsinthehealthiestcommunitiesintheworld.TheK2fromJustThriveistheonlypharmaceuticalgrade,all-naturalsupplementwithpublishedsafetystudies.Liketheprobiotic,thisisalsogluten,dairy,soy,nutandGMOfree.BotharebesttakenwithfoodsoIkeepbothonthetable.Hereisatiptoo.Mydadhastroublerememberingtotakesupplementssohetapedthemtothepeppershaker,whichheusesdaily,andthey’renowonhisdailylistaswell.Checkthemoutatthriveprobiotic.com/wellnessmamaandusethecodeWELLNESSMAMA15tosave15%!

ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyAlituraNaturalsskincare.Youguyslovedthefounder,Andy,whenhecameonthispodcasttotalkabouthisownskinhealingjourneyafteratragicaccidentthatcausedmassivescarringonhisface.Fromthisexperience,hedevelopedsomeofthemostpotentandeffectivenaturalskincareoptionsfromserumstomasksandalotofproductsinbetweenandtheresultsarevisibleinhisperfectlyclearskinthatisfreeofscars!Ipersonallylovethemaskanduseitacoupletimesaweek,andoftenusethegoldserumatnighttonourishmyskinwhileIsleep.Alloftheirproductshavesupercleaningredientsandtheyreallywork!Andyisabsolutelydedicatedtocreatingthehighestqualityproductspossibleanditshows.Checkthemoutatalituranaturals.com/wellnessmamaandusethediscountcodeWELLNESStoget20%off.

Katie:Andyoutalkalotaboutsomethingcalledhealthspan.AndIwouldloveifyoucoulddefinewhatthatisandthenwalkusthroughsomeofthefactorsthat,fromwhatyou'veseen,mostimpacthealthspan.I'm


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assuming,obviously,thefastingmimickingdietorsomeversionofthatwouldbeatremendousone.Butarethereotherthingsthatyoufoundinyourresearchthatalsocanreallyaffecthealthspan?

Valter:Yes.Sointhebook,Italkabouttwothings.Oneisyouthspanandtheotheroneishealthspan.So,Italkaboutjuventologyandyouthspan,meaningthat,youknow,whatistheperiodoflifewhereweremainyoung,andso,whereyouhavemaximumperformance?Andtheideaistoextendit.Now,youcouldclaimthatbasedon,let'ssay,Olympicathletesandprofessionalathletes,that'sabout40,right?So,mostpeoplecanperformatveryhighlevelsuntilage40.Buttheideaiscanwepushthatyouthspan,theperiodinwhichyouremainyoung,to60,maybe70?Andthen,afterthat,whatabouthealthspan?Meaningthatwhatistheperiodthatyou'renolongeryoung,butyou'rehealthy?Andthat'sintheUnitedStates,inEurope,thisislargelydisappearing.Mostpeoplehaveachronicdiseaseifnotmultiplechronicdiseasesafteracertainage.

Sotheideaweknowthatit'spossibletonowincreasedramaticallythepercentageofpeoplethatcanbehealthyuntilveryoldageorpossiblyhealthyuntiltheyactuallydie,right?So,youdiehealthy.Whatdoesthatmean?Youknow,itmeansthat,youknow,atage85,youdevelopAlzheimer,you'renotgonnadiehealthy.Ifatage67youdevelopchronicheartdisease,you'renotgonnadiehealthy,orcancer,etc.,etc.So,theideaisthencanyoueventuallydiewhenyou're110oftheflu,right?That'sreallyhealthspan,right?

So,nowyou're110likeEmmaMorano,andalsolikeCaruso,thepeoplethatIfollowed,bothofthem,maleandfemale,madeittoover110.Andtheywerehealthy,meaningthattheydidn'thaveanychronicdiseaseandeventually,theybothdiedofprobablyinfections,butthat'sokay.Imean,eventually,you'regonnahavetodieofsomething.Butthat'sreallygreatthattheycanmakeitto110,one,and117theotherwithoutchronicdiseases.Andreally,that'swhatwe'refocusingon.AndIthink,becauseoftheconfusionoutthere,nobodyisdoingtherightthing.

So,whataretherightthings?Well,inmybook,Idividedintotwo.Imean,halfofitisaboutwhatyoudoeverydayandeveryday,thebestdietseemstobeapescatarian,vegan,plussomefish,maybefishacoupleoftimesaweek,diet.Andthefishshouldbe,youknow,lowmercury.So,youknow,let'ssaysalmon,anchovies,sardines,thatseemstobeacoupleoftimesaweek.Andseafoodisalsofine,plusvegan,right?Andvegan,wheredoyougettheproteins?Well,legumeshaveagoodlevelofproteins.So,chickpeasandblackbeans,etc.,etc.

Butpeopleneedtopayattention,right?Whenyouaremostlyveganandyoueatfishacoupleoftimesaweek,youhavetomakesurethatpeopledon'trealizethatittakesabout300or400gramsofchickpeastoget30or40gramsofproteins.So,yeah,theportionsneedtobefairlylarge.AndthisiswhyIalsotalkinthebookabouteatmore,noteatless.So,everydayeatmore,butyourdishisnowgonnalooklike30,40,50gramsof,let'ssay,1or2ouncesofpasta.Butthen,nowyouhave300gramsor,youknow,whatever,5ounces,oractually,7ouncesofchickpeas,andthen,let'ssayvegetable.So,it'salargedish,highnourishmentthatisgonnafillyourstomachwithfibers,etc.,andmakeyounothungryforhoursandhours.So,that'sawaytogo.

Theotherstrategyeverydayislimitfoodintaketo12hours.So,12hourson,12hoursoff.So,eat8a.m.,8p.m.Peoplesay,"Well,butIgetupat6:00.HowcanIdothat?"Well,youknow,ifyougetupat6:00andyou


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havedinnerat8p.m.,don'thavebreakfastuntil8a.m.That'sokay,youknow.Haveacoupleofhoursgobyandthenhavebreakfastat8a.m.So,youcankeepat12hoursadaythefeedingperiod.Also,Irecommendmovingtotwomealsadayplusasnackforpeoplethatareoverweightandobese.Thisideaoffivemeals,sixmealsadayhasdone,Ithink,tremendousdamageandhasbeenassociatedwitharecordincreaseinobesity,andpeopleoverweightarenowover70%intheUnitedStates.Andso,movebacktotheold...whatlotsofcentenarianusedtodo,youknow.Eatacoupleoftimesadayandmaybehaveasnack.So,abreakfast,alwayshavebreakfast.Andthen,eatalunchanddinner,ordinner,andthenhaveasnack,maybeacouplehundredcaloriescomingfromasaladorsomenuts,oretc.That'syourthirdmealuntilyoumovetoabetterweight.Andthen,youcanmovebacktothethreemealsadayplusasnack.

Andyouknow,exercise,Italkabout150minutesaweekandtrytowalkmaybeanhouraday.Thatseemstobeimportant.Youknow,stayactiveandtrytohavemaybe15,20,30minutesaweekofalittlebitmorestrenuousexercise.So,youpushyourself,youknow,dependingonyourageandyourcondition.Butyoupushyourselfalittlebitmore,strugglealittlebit,andthatseemstobeimportantinstayinghealthy.

Andthen,thefastingmimickingdiet.Fastingmimickingdietatleastuptoage65,70,acoupleoftimesayearto12timesayear.So,ifyou'rea35-year-oldathletewithapescatariandiet,youmightonlyneedtodothefastingmimickingdiet,whichiscalledProLonintheU.S.,acoupleoftimesayear.Butifyou'reoverweightorobese,andyouhavehighcholesterol,highbloodpressure,youmayhavesomehighinflammatorymarkers,thenprobablyfastingmimickingdietonceamonthuntilyoumovetoabetterstate.Andthenatthatpoint,youcangoonceeverytwomonths,onceeverythreemonths,andeventually,say,onceeveryfourtosixmonths.Iwouldsay,onaverage,anAmericanprobablyneedstodoitthreetimesayear.

Katie:Gotit.Thosearegreatguidelines.Andtocirclebacktosomethingyoumentionedearlier,youtalkedalittlebitaboutsugarinrelationtocancerspecificallyandIGF-1.ButI'mcuriousifyoucouldgoalittledeeperonsugarspecificallybecauseI'vetakenalotofheatforwritingandsayingthat,especially,like,withmykidsandingeneralthatwedon'thaveabiologicalneedeverforrefinedoraddedsugar.AndI'vetakenalotofheatforthat.People,youknow,arelike,verymuchallthingsinmoderation.So,I'mcurious,like,amIwrongonthis?Orwhatisthedataactuallysaying?Whathaveyoufoundinyourresearchregardingsugar?

Valter:Well,Imean,Ithinkpeopleconfuseanitemlikesugarwiththeproblem,whichisexcesssugar,right?SoIthinkthat,ingeneral,youknow,fruithassugarinit,andlotsofit.Andso,havingafruittodayisperfectlyfine.Let'ssayanappleadayoranorangeaday,orwhatever.Now,evenwithfruit,you'restartingtohavefiveorangesadayorfiveapples,you'restartingtogetlotsofsugarfromthoseapples.Now,let'ssaythatontopofthat,youstarthavinglotsofbread,rice,andpasta,etc.,etc.,allofthatbecomesugar,right?

So,Ithinktheproblemisnotsomuch,let'ssay...Ialwaystellpeople,"Goaheadandputsugarinyourcoffee.It'sfourgrams.It'snotgonnadoanythingatall."Butwatchoutabout,youknow,drinkingaliterorabigbottleoforangejuiceeveryday,right,becausenow,thatcontains100gramsofsugar.So,Ithinkthatwereallyneedtotrytokeeprefinedsugaraslowaspossiblebutwithoutfeeling,like,that'spoisonbecausewearefueledbysugar,right?So,thehumanbodyworks...themajorfuelissugar.


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ButwhathappensinmostAmericans,infact,isthat,youknow,theaveragelevelofsugarishigh.Andthat'swhenthenthebodyneedstostruggletomakemoreinsulin.Andinsulinnoweventuallypromotesinsulinresistancesothatthemusclecellsandthelymphocytes,theybecome...theystruggletobringinglucose.Andinsulinisalsogivingthemessagetodeliverandtothefatcells,ingeneral,storemorefat.So,allthatprocessisclearlyinfluencednotjustbypuresugar,butalsobythestarches,thepasta,thebread,therice,thepizza,right?So,allthosestarchesareveryquicklyturnedintosugaroncetheygettotheintestine.Sothen,thosearegonnaeventuallycontributetolotsofproblemsincludingweightgain,insulinresistance,etc.,etc.

So,thebestwaytodoit,aswhatIsaidearlier,whichis,youknow,ifyouwannahaveanappleadayorevenhavesomethingthat'sgotalittlebitofsugar,afewgramsofit,goaheadanddoit.Weneedtobecarefulnotdemonizingtheseingredients,youknow.So,ifthechildwantstohave,youknow,somecakethatit'sgot,youknow,12gramsofsugar,Ithinkit'sperfectlyfine.What'snotfineisto,youknow,havethreeCokesadayandthenthreeapples,andthen,youknow,someorangejuice,andthenthecandy.Now,allofasudden,youwentfrom12gramsto150grams.Andthatchildisgonnabeatriskfordevelopingvisceraladiposityandbeingoverweight,andthen,youknow,developingalltheproblemsthatmostAmericanshave.

Katie:Thatmakessense.Andsoinotherwords,basically,wecangetthecarbohydratesourbodyneedsfromthingslikefruitandsweetpotatoes,andvegetables.Butyoudon'tseeanythingwrongwithoccasional,like,darkchocolateorsomethingthatwouldcontainsugar,it'sabouttheamountessentially.

Valter:Yeah.Andpeopleshouldbeverycarefulabouttheamountbecauseotherwise,youknow,Ialsodon'twannagivethemessage,"Oh,don'tworrysomuchaboutit."Yeah,worryaboutitbecausepayattention,youknow.Ifyou'reaparent,payattentionbecauseyouwannatrytolimitthosesimplesugartoverylowlevels,andyoualsowannasay,"Hey,yeah,oneapple,perfectlyfine."Maybetwoapples,that'sokay.Ifyouhaveachildthatisverythin,that'sokay.Butdon't,youknow,implementthisemptysugarcaloriedietbecauseeventually,it'sgonnabeaproblem.Theproblemmaynotoccuruntilsomebodyturned37,right?So,theymayhaveafairlyhighmetabolismandcandrinkCokealldayandthey'refine.Andthen,eventually,themetabolismslowsortheyreachalevelofabdominalfatthatchangesthemetabolism,andnowtheystartgettingalotofweight.Andyouknow,that'swhathappenedwithmostpeople.They'refineuntilacertainage.Andthentheyturnoverweightandobeselaterinlifeandtheycannevergetridofthat.

Katie:Gotit.That'sagreatguideline.AndI'mcuriousaswegetclosetotheendofourtime.So,you'reinalabontheforefrontofactualresearchandyou'reseeingalotoftheresearchacrosstheboardaswell,andyoualsodoalotofresearch.Whattopicscanweexpecttohearmoreaboutinthefutureastheyrelatetohealth?

Valter:Ithinkthatwecanexpecttohearmuchmore...youknow,forexample,asIalwaysmentioned,thefastingmimickingdiets,we'regonnaneedtofocusmuchmoreonexactlywhatyoudoandwhen,right?So,muchlessofthesewords,youknow.Forexample,youhearcommercials,ahighproteindish,20gramsofprotein,30gramsofprotein.Imean,ofcourse,that'sextremelydamaging,well,firstofall,becauseit'stalkingabout,youknow,highproteinwhenyoushouldbetalkingaboutlowprotein,andalsobecauseit'stryingtogivesortofmedicalrecommendationorcertainlymakearecommendationthatcomefromadietician,we'renowseeingitinthecommercials.So,theyhave...youknow,they'reimplyinghealthbenefits,right?


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So,allthesecommercialsthatyouhear,youknow,whensomebodysays,"Oh,20gramsofprotein,"whataretheysaying?Well,they'resaying,"Eatlotsofproteinbecauseit'sgoodforyou."Sothat'sverybad,thetremendousdamagecomingfromthat,andthat'sgottachange.AndIhopethatpeoplearegonnastartdemandingthatwehavelessconfusionandlesspeoplegoingonTV,orontheradio,orontheinternetandimprovisingwithopinion,andmorepeoplethatarereallypayingattentionto,youknow,whatdowereallyknow,right?Andwho'stheexpertthatisaccountableforit?

And,youknow,Ialwayssay,forexample,almosteverybodyfliesonBoeingorAirbus,andthereisareasonforthat.Imean,youknow,weheardsomeproblemslately.Butingeneral,thesecompanieshaveanincrediblesafetyrecord,very,veryfewplanescrash.Andso,Ithinkweneedtodothesameforfoodandnutrition,andreallyhavetorelyontheexpertsthatseemtogetitright.Andtheyalsohaveresponsibility,youknow.They'reincentersthatwere...youknow,forexample,IdirecttheLongevityInstitutehereatUSC,soIhaveaccountability.IfIsaylow-proteindietisgoodforyouandthenI'mprovenwrongbypaperafterpaperafterpaper,eventually,that'smyaccountability.Igetitallwrong.Andso,howisitthatIgetitallwrong?ShallIkeepgivingadvicetopeople?Maybenot.Soifthatwasthecase,thatwouldbeafairassessment,anditshouldbelikethatforeverybody.

So,IthinkIreallyhopethatwith,youknow,blogslikeyoursandmanyothers,thatwecanstartmovinginthatdirectionofseparatingideasfrom,youknow,realscience,realclinicaldata,andalsoaccountabilityandreputation,youknow.So,allofthoseshouldbekeptinmindwhendecidingwhodoIexposemylistenerstoandwhy.

Katie:That'sagreatpoint.Ithinkyou'respoton.Andaswestarttowrapup,Iwouldalsoloveifyoucouldgivepeoplekindofastartingpointtokeeplearningmorefromyou.Personally,Iwouldhighlyrecommendyourbook,"TheLongevityDiet,"andI'llmakesurethatwe'lllinktothatintheshownotesandonsocialmediasopeoplecanfindit.Butifsomeonehasbeenlisteningand,like,reallyunderstandingwhatyou'resayingandwantingtogetintofastingmimickingdiet,whatwouldyourecommendasagoodstartingpointingeneral?Like,arethereanygoodjustgeneralguidelinesforsomeonewhodoesn'tnecessarilyhavecanceroraspecificconditionbutjustwantstostartgettingthebenefits?

Valter:Yeah.Ithink,youknow,thereisProLon.It'scalledfastingmimickingdiet.Andpeoplecanpurchaseit.AndIdon'tmakeapennyoutofit.Idonateeverythingtocharityandtoresearch.Butyeah,peoplecango...Ithinkit'sProLonFMDandtheycangetitthere.Andthat'stheoneforhealthypeople.Then,soonenough,there'sgonnabeafastingmimickingdietforcancerpatients.Theinitialclinicaltrialsarefinished.So,Ihopethatinafewmonths,thereisgonnabethatoutsopeoplecanstartbenefitingandgettingthebenefitsthatwe'veseenintheclinicaltrialsforcancer,youknow.

Andsoonenough,youknow,we'redoingtrialsnow.Wehave,Ithink,over30clinicaltrialsgoing,gofrommanycancertrialstoAlzheimertomultiplesclerosis,inflammatoryboweldisease,etc.,etc.Andso,thosearegonnabeout.Andunderstandingthatlotsofpeoplecannotwaitforoneofthesemanytrialstobefinished,thenIrecommendthebook.AndIrecommend,aswe'vedonewiththousandsandthousandsofpatients,youcantakeittoyourdoctor.Let'ssaysomebodyhasautoimmunityandtheysay,"Well,youknow,Idon'tthinkIcanwait,""Takethebook,readit,gotoyourgastroenterologistandsay,"Idon'tthinkIcanwait."Doesthe


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gastroenterologistagreethatmaybeit'sworthtryingthefastingmimickingdietmaybetogetherwiththestandardofcare,andseeifthathelpsinaverycarefulmanner?Yeah,sothen,that'sprobablyagoodwaytoapproachthis.

Katie:Wonderful.Dr.Longo,thankyousomuchforalltheworkthatyoudoandforyourdedicationtothisfieldofresearch.LikeIsaid,I'vebeenafanofyoursforareallylongtimeandI'msogratefulyoutookthetimetosharewithustoday.AndI'llmakesurethatpeoplehavelinkstofindyourresearchandyourbookstocontinuelearning.Butthankyousomuch.

Valter:Well,thankyou.Thankyouverymuch.

Katie:Andthankyoutoallofyouforlistening.AndIhopeyou'lljoinmeagainonthenextepisodeof"TheWellnessMama"podcast.

Ifyou'reenjoyingtheseinterviews,wouldyoupleasetaketwominutestoleavearatingorreviewoniTunesforme?Doingthishelpsmorepeopletofindthepodcast,whichmeansevenmoremomsandfamiliescouldbenefitfromtheinformation.Ireallyappreciateyourtime,andthanksasalwaysforlistening.

episode 255: dr. valter longo on a fasting mimicking diet ... · and this nutrient—you may have...

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