draft minutes aci 207 anaheim - concrete

ACI Committee 207 – Mass and Thermally Controlled Concrete Draft Meeting Minutes

Monday October 16, 2017 10:00 AM – 1:00 P.M.

Disneyland Hotel, Magic Kingdom #4 1. Call to Order

a. Chairman Ferraro called the meeting to order at 10:01 A.M. b. Introductions around the table c. Minutes from last meeting Detroit, Kyle Riding moved to approve, Seconded

by Teck Chua Approved. [9/0/0] d. Web-meeting: Need to set up some of these. Chris will set them up but we

need quorum!

2. Members in Attendance a. Voting

Chris Ferraro Katie Bartojay Oscar Antommattei Teck Chua John Gajda Mario Garza Jonathon Poole

Kyle Riding Ernest Rogalla Kuntay Talay Michael Whisonant Steve Williamson

Associate Patrick Barnhouse Alison Dowling Gary Horninger Catherine Lucero Bill Lyons Michael Marchese

Oon-Soo Ooi Jerry Paris Stacia Van Zetten Mary Vancura Jay Whitt Jeremy Zeller

b. Guests in Attendance Mike Dilley Chris Cartwright Trevor Towrey Richard Valentin Charles Kerzic Sarah De Carufel Sabina Garber Melissa Done

Tomoka Ishida Peter Bohmie Paul Tourney Elizabeth Nadelman Yiwen Bu Charbel Aoun Erik Holck

Joseph Clendenen

c. New Associate Members – self introductions

Harvey Deford - Florida Dept of Transportation Catherine Lucero – Bureau of Reclamation, research William Lyons – The Euclid Chemical Co, ACI 306 Chair Michael Marchese – Future Tech Consultants of NY, special inspection Mary Vancura – Beton Consulting Engineers, thermal control plans

ACI Committee 207 – Mass and Thermally Controlled Concrete Meeting Draft Meeting Minutes


Disneyland Hotel, Magic Kingdom #4

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d. TAC Contact – Bruce Suprenant (not present)

3. Chairman’s Report a. TAC Update

1. Completed Items: 2. 207.6 (2017) - available in PDF only. Committee displeased with not getting

a hard copy. 3. 207.3 (1994) 2017. 4. SP –

b. Immediate Items:

1. 207.4 (2005) 2. 207.1 (2005) 3. 207.2 (2007) 4. 207.X

4. Future Conventions

1. Salt Lake City, UT – Concrete Elevated – March 25-29, 2018 2. Las Vegas, NV – Dream Big, Build Bigger – October 14-18, 2018

i. Co-Sponsoring at 237 Session, SCC and Mass Concrete Quality Control

ii. Oscar and John presenting. 3. Quebec City, Quebec Canada, – March 24-28, 2019

5. Status Report of Documents and Ongoing Work a. 207.4R-05: Cooling and Insulating Systems for Mass Concrete

Champion: Chris Ferraro, Patrick Barnhouse, Mike Hernandez, Scott Cumming Committee Addressed Negatives – See voting spreadsheet - partial negatives addressed today 10/16/2017 – Note table attached to the minutes does not reflect all of the items from the letter ballot, just the results during the committee meeting. Add John Gajda’s comments to the spreadsheet Notes: Reach out to TAC to find out what items in this current document that were added by past members experiences will count as their own reference or if we will be held to finding another reference for these dam examples.

b. 207.1R-05: Guide to Mass Concrete i) Champion: Oscar Antommattei

(a) Vote Complete – Resolution of Negatives




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c. 207.2R-07: Thermal and Volume Change Effects on Cracking ii) Champion: Mary Vancura / Kyle Riding / Allison Dowling / Scott Cumming

(1) Chapter 1 – Oon So Ooi (2) Chapter 2 – Oon So Ooi (received) (3) Chapter 3 – Ernie Rogalla and Kate Bartojay (received) (4) Chapter 4 – Scott Jones and Oscar Antommattei (in progress) (5) Chapter 5 – Jon Poole and Teck Chua (received) (6) Chapter 6 – Fares Abdo, Chris Ferraro (7) Chapter 7 – John Gajda, Chris Ferraro

d. 207.3R-94: Practices for Evaluation of Concrete in Existing Massive

Structures for Service Conditions (Reapproved 2008) – Awaiting ACI

e. 207.6R-17: Erosion of Concrete in Hydraulic Structures – Complete – Thanks Katie!

f. 207.AR: Mixture Proportioning of Mass Concrete iii) Champion: Ron Kozikowski / Steve Williamson/ Michael Marchese /

Alison Dowling / Katie Bartojay iv)

g. 207.XR: Guide to Reinforced Structural Mass Concrete –John Gajda to

Champion incorporating voting changes and getting document ready for a re-vote.

Spring Vote did not meet ½ rule. Will revote October - 2017 I. 207.ZR: Compendium of Case Histories on Repair of Erosion-Damaged Concrete in Hydraulic Structures Champion: Katie Bartojay – Need Others

6. Open Discussion of Projects and Various Topics Open discussion and/or short presentations, where members and

guests can discuss mass concrete and thermal control projects, discuss new information, related topics, etc.

a. Each presentation should be limited to approximately 5 minutes each

Sarah De Carufel – Giatec Scientific Smart concrete sensors case study using new 207.1R equation

John Gajda – MJ2 Consulting – Bad practices and related problems, bridge beam with poor post cooling and thermal plan




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7. New Business – none

8. Next Meeting(s) Specs for mass concrete, tabled this topic

9. Adjournment

Motion to Adjourn by Katie Bartojay, Seconded by John Gajda

Meeting adjourned at 1:04 P.M.

ACI Committee 207 – Mass and Thermally Controlled Concrete Meeting Draft Meeting Minutes Monday October 16, 2017

10:00 AM – 1:00 P.M. Disneyland Hotel, Magic Kingdom #4

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No. Name Pg # Line # G/E/P/S Comment Suggested Revision: Committee Response Vote Results

1. Ferraro All All E Refer to TCM for format. Each chapter has requires sections per ACI

guidelines

2. Antommattei

1 various E Check all names from committee members are correct. The last 2 on the right are not spelled correctly.

Spell committee member names correctly.

Will finalize at time of final publication

3. Antommattei

3-4 P. 3 (20)

P. 4 (2)

E The sentence in P. 4 makes reference to “these procedures” but the last

sentence in previous paragraph in P. 3 does not contain the procedures – it

is in the prior sentence.

Move sentence from P. 4 (2) to P. 3 (20). If not, then modify

sentence in P. 4 (2) to be more specific in what are the “these

procedures”.

Delete “these”

4. Schrader 3 17 E Delete “…of concrete…” Delete “…of concrete…” Delete made 5. Schrader 4 17-21 P Keep the deleted two sentences Keep the deleted two sentences Persuasive Motion by

Oscar Seconded by Ernie 13/0/0

6. Schrader 5 18-22 P Keep the deleted sentences. They are IMPORTANT

Keep the deleted sentences. They are IMPORTANT

Persuasive Motion by Oscar Seconded by , Kuntay 13/0/0 The word “safetly” was recommended to be removed as an editorial comment – can this be done through TAC?

7. Rogalla 6 6-12 E Provide reference(s) I’ll work with Katie on this Reach out to TAC to find out what items in this



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No. Name Pg # Line # G/E/P/S Comment Suggested Revision: Committee Response Vote Results current document that were added by past members experiences will count as their own reference or if we will be held to finding another reference for these dam examples.

8. Ferraro 7 1 P Piers and foundations is too specific. Piers, foundations and other structural elements

Persuasive Motion by John Gajda, Seconded by Teck to include change 13/0/0

9. Ferraro 7 4 E The term “mixer” is slightly vague Change to “concrete mixer” 10. Antommattei 7 4-9 P First this paragraph seems misplaced,

I would expect later on there is better opportunity to provide details of Liq Nit and Ice, and compare if needed. There is no mention on benefits of

using Liq Nit; however, there is mention on inefficiencies.

I suggest at least mentioning one or two good things of Liq Nit. In our projects we have

found that the cost per cy can be equivalent or less than ice. And, Liq Nit is more efficient

without affecting mixture proportions limitation because it can be added as many times as necessary to get the right

temperature. That being stated, there needs to be lot of concrete

to justify the investment. I suggest that this paragraph is moved to another section or reword it to show at least 1

benefit. For example, “Practical and economical considerations should be evaluated, but it can

be a very effective way to precool the concrete. Some

Change made “Some benefits of liquid nitrogen are that it can be added as many times as required and very low temperatures can be achieved without affecting mixture proportions.”

Motion by John Gajda, Seconded by Kuntay to include change 13/0/0



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No. Name Pg # Line # G/E/P/S Comment Suggested Revision: Committee Response Vote Results benefits of liquid nitrogen are that it can be added as many

times as required and very low temperatures can be achieved

without affecting mixture proportions.

11. Rogalla 7 5-6 E Sentence starting with “practical” is not helpful.

Change sentence to: “Although expensive, it may be cost effective and could result in savings associated with less insulation, shorter construction schedule, etc.

12. Ferraro 7 11 P The absolute temperature is not always relevant in this case

Suggest rewording to include, relative temperature I.e, “the temperature can be lowered by X degrees”

Persuasive: Reworded in committee.

Motion by Kuntay, Seconded by Teck include change 13/0/0

13. Schrader 7 15-22 P Keep the deleted sentences. They are IMPORTANT

Keep the deleted sentences. They are IMPORTANT

Persuasive: Motion by Oscar Seconded by , Teck 13/0/0

14. Antommattei 8 5-6 N Needs rewording to be more specific and technically accurate

I suggest the following: “Insulation has been used on lift surfaces and concrete formed and finished faces to prevent or minimize thermal cracking associated to rapid temperature drops in the concrete due to sudden weather changes.”

Persuasive: Bundled with Comment 15 Paragraph edits made in committee.

See Comment 15

15. Rogalla 8 6 N Delete “under sudden drops in temperatures.”

(the benefit is not just for ambient temperature changes; it

The potential for “thermal shock due to changes”

Motion by Rogalla,



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No. Name Pg # Line # G/E/P/S Comment Suggested Revision: Committee Response Vote Results could be cold weather, a pour on an older pour, etc.)

Persuasive: Bundled with Comment 14 Paragraph edits made in committee.

Seconded by, Poole second: 13/0/0

16. Antommattei 8-9 P. 8 (22)

P. 9 (1)

N Can be misleading to reduce batch water from the mix at time of

production, which then can affect workability of the mix for placement

Needs rewording to be accurate, such as: “The improved workability of concrete at lower temperature can, at times, allow further optimization of the mix to make adjustments to chemical admixtures or even reduce water content when necessary.

“allow further optimization of the mix to make adjustments to chemical admixtures or even reduce water content when necessary” Bundled with Comment 17, 21 Paragraph edit to remove last two sentences.

See Comment 17

17. Rogalla 8-9 p. 8 line 22 - p. 9

line 2

Provide references or strike these sentences. I’m not sure that a 60-degree concrete is more workable than an 80-degree concrete, or that

one would reduce water in the design. I also am not aware of significant less vibration being

required.

Bundled with Comment 16, 21 Paragraph edit to remove last two sentences.

Motion by Kuntay, Seconded by Bartojay include change 13/0/0

18. Rogalla 8 12+ N Delete the sentence “Insulation of exposed surfaces…”

(It doesn’t have to supplement other measures. Also, it reduces the risk of cracking and may not avoid it.)

Persuasive: Paragraph edit to remove sentence.

Motion by Rogalla, Seconded by, Poole second: 13/0/0

19. Rogalla 8 16 N Remove “in warmer weather” and replace with “, as appropriate”

(This could also be an issue in cold weather, etc.)

as appropriate Persuasive: Paragraph edits made in committee.

Motion by Teck, Seconded by Kuntay, include change 12/0/0



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No. Name Pg # Line # G/E/P/S Comment Suggested Revision: Committee Response Vote Results 20. Rogalla 8 16-18 E Strike the sentence “Removing all

the insulation at once…”, or rewrite (The previous sentence essentially covers this; “much lower” is not defined, etc.).

Delete Sentence

21. Antommattei 9 1-2 N Technically inaccurate and misleading sentence. It is true that a

mixture proportion at cooler temperatures will retain workability for longer times, thus its response to vibration will be extended for longer

periods, but saying that cooler concrete responds better to vibration

is very misleading.

Needs rewording to be accurate, such as: “Cooler concrete will tend to remain workable for longer time, thus maintain its response to vibration during consolidation for longer time too.” Otherwise delete sentence “Cooler concrete is also more responsive to vibration during consolidation.”

Persuasive: Bundled with Comment 16, 17

See Comment 17

22. Poole 9 11-16 S The paragraph is a good general addition. However, it feels out of

place specifically in this document. Would it worth adding this

somewhere in one of our different guide documents (such as 207.2)?

Persuasive: Delete added sentence. Recommend adding to another 207 Document

Motion by John Gajda, Seconded by Mike Whisonhant to include change 13/0/0

23. Schrader 9 16 P We need to cover the following option—see suggested wording to

add after line 16 as a new short paragraph.

Another approach to surface cracking, when it is critical, for example in a water retaining structure or conveyance, or where corrosion is a concern, is to allow large thermal gradients to occur that cause cracking, then repair them by injection grouting. The cost and inconvenience of injection grouting may be less than the

Non-persuasive: The comment refers to a paragraph that has been deleted.

Ferraro motion, Tech second 12/0/0



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No. Name Pg # Line # G/E/P/S Comment Suggested Revision: Committee Response Vote Results cost of trying to prevent the cracks in the first place.

24. Poole 9 14 E Check spelling on Ron’s name Kozikowski 25. Antommattei 10-

11, etc.

various G Use of the term “thermocouple” may not be accurate for all cases

Instead of using the term “thermocouple”; I suggest

using “temperature sensors” so it avoids being specific to a

certain type of sensor

Persuasive: Committee agrees

John Poole motion to change all instances to temperature sensor, Mike Whisonant second 12/0/0

26. Poole 10-11 21-23, 1-2

? Topic of paragraphs is unfocused. Replace with “It is considered best practice to monitor temperature of concrete components (aggregate stockpiles, cement, SCMs, water), fresh concrete, and post-cooling system temperatures. Various technologies are available for monitoring temperatures. Typical methods include manual thermometers, wired thermocouples, wired thermocouple/datalogger systems, and wireless thermocouple/datalogger systems. Typical resolution of these devices is 1°C.”

Persuasive: Revise with recommended revision

Mike Whisonant motion, second John Poole 11/0/0

27. Rogalla 10 13 P What is “cure water?” Is the suggestion that running water be run over the concrete to cool the surface

(this seems like a bad idea)?

Delete Sentence Bartojay motion to



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No. Name Pg # Line # G/E/P/S Comment Suggested Revision: Committee Response Vote Results delete, Tech second 12/0/0

28. Rogalla 10 19 E Monitoring doesn’t change concrete temperatures

Persuasive: Paragraph edits made in committee.

29. Chua 11 3-16 P The committee seems to endorse the use of wireless data logging

technology by touting the ease of use and safety. Is it our role to endorse

such a technology and perhaps lead a specifier to exclude all others? Can

we simply state what each technology can provide and leave the

merit judgment to the reader?

WITHDRAWN BY TECH

30. Poole 11 23 E Break up paragraph Make new paragraph at “The ease of gathering thermocouple…”

31. Schrader 12 4 E Replace “plastic” with “fresh” Replace “plastic” with “fresh” 32. Antommattei 12 5-8 P This sentence seems to be

misrepresenting the Fig. 4.5 in ACI 207.2R. The 10F reduction in fresh concrete placing temperature will

reduce 4-6F in the temperature rise (not the peak temperature); the

resulting effect in the peak temperature will be larger than 4-6F because it will also be added to the reduction of 10F from the placing temperature. It is well-known that

the peak temperature will be at least 10F lower plus there will be 4-6F

much lower because the temperature rise is also reduced as fresh concrete

temperature is reduced.

Need to verify sentence and reword as needed to be accurate: “In massive

structures, each 10F reduction of the placing temperature of the concrete will lower the

temperature rise of the concrete by approximately 4 to 6 F,

which then also help further reducing peak temperature.”

Persuasive: Bundle comments 32 & 33 and remove quantities

Tech motion, Poole second 11/0/0



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No. Name Pg # Line # G/E/P/S Comment Suggested Revision: Committee Response Vote Results 33. Poole 12 8 ? 10°F reduction in fresh placement

temperature can reduce maximum temperature up to 10°F for some

elements.

Change “4 to 6°F “ to “4 to 10°F”, but we also need to update 207.2R.

Persuasive: Bundle comments 32 & 33 and remove quantities

See Comment 32

34. Rogalla 15 10-20 P Strike sentences and following equation. I don’t believe it is correct for many conditions. For example, what about an 80% slag mix that

reaches a peak temperature 5 days after placement? Even a portland

cement concrete will have substantial stiffness within the first 12 hours,

especially the first 24, and temperatures are still climbing.

Thinner sections will also have larger temperature gradients, with tensile

stresses balancing compressive stresses, etc. The equation on the

following page is accordingly misleading.

Discuss in committee Persuasive: deleted John Gadja motion to delete, Riding seconded 11/0/0

35. Antommattei 13 9 E There is a very specific topic started in line 10 – naming a subsection will

benefit.

Name a subsection here that identifies this brief subsection and discussion on minimizing thermal stresses and cracking

Add text as shown

36. Antommattei 13 20 N The new portion added to this sentence is heading the right

direction but because is not very specific then it opens a series of

questions as it relates to maximum core temperature and what means detrimental or not, which can be

subject to different interpretations.

I suggest to be more specific with the suggested text that has been added. “…then grout or seal the cracks, provided the maximum core temperature

will not reach excessively high temperatures that can be

detrimental to the long term performance of the concrete structure. See ACI 308R for

I like this text as is. 308R is over simplifying Non-persuasive: The comment refers to a paragraph that has

John Gadja motion Non-persuasive, Kuntay second. 11/0/0



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No. Name Pg # Line # G/E/P/S Comment Suggested Revision: Committee Response Vote Results guidance about temperature

limitations for concrete exposed to high temperatures

during the curing period.” 37. Schrader 13 17 S Change “can” to “may be able to” Change “can” to “may be able

to”

38. Rogalla 13 17 E Proper design does not always make cracking acceptable

Insert the word “sometimes” after “can”

39. Gadja 7 4 N Cold nitrogen gas Change to “liquid nitrogen gas” Committee Change during Convention: Motioned by John Gajda. Seconded John Poole 12/0/0




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COMMITTEE SIGN IN SHEETS




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